Comments by "Dorian Shades of gray" (@dorianshadesofgray2981) on "Vatican treasurer Cardinal Pell guilty of child sex abuse" video.

  1. I was head juror in a pedophilia case and I can say that the number of people on the jury who had been abused as children who wanted to find the person being charged guilty without considering evidence was disturbing.. it could very well be true that Pell is guilty as sin, however I don’t trust a “ jury of peers” as a way of determining guilt , especially in such a high profile case.
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  2. I agree with that. I also believe there was not enough evidence to convict Pell of the crimes he has been accused off.. Pell is a scapegoat taking the hit for the Vatican which seems to be immune from prosecution.
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  3. janeen harris my beef is with the judicial system .. I have no idea whether Cardinal Pell is guilty or not. In today’s world of 24/7 news and social media it is very hard for potential jurors to not be influenced in how to think on just about any matter. I do know one thing though, this judgement will be appealed and I hope everything was done properly, for if he is guilty I’d hate to see him get off on a technicality. I’d also hate to see him wrongfully imprisoned because of bias in the jury.
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  4. This is more of a power based sexual crime then a result of forced celibacy. You have to be a deviant to sexually abuse children, if forced celibacy was the issue why wouldn’t they just have secret affairs or engage with prostitutes?
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  5. mymentor do some research . There is reporting of key details of the evidence provided. The biggest sticking point in my mind is that two boys were supposedly abused by Pell in 1996. On of those boys died a few years ago but never reported any abuse. More importantly when asked by his mother he said nothing happened. This alone should be enough to add reasonable doubt to acquit Cardinal Pell .
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  6. mymentor there’s no point arguing with you as you don’t know the facts. It was one man who accused Cardinal Pell. The other person involved who is dead now never reported any abuse and when asked by his mother prior to his death he said nothing happened. Do some research before you comment
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  7. 2525 Ethical Waves journalist were not allowed to report but were present throughout the whole trial.. they may not have been privy to certain aspects of testimony but were available to view the summations of both counsels.. so they have a pretty good idea of the evidence that was presented... to date from what has been reported I have seen a lot of evidence that would cast reasonable doubt but no evidence that is compelling enough to warrant a guilty verdict.
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  8. Mike Karoules I haven’t seen any other accusers come forward. In fact the reporting is that legal Experts believe Cardinal Pell has a strong chance to winning his appeal on the grounds of an unreasonable conviction as the guilty verdict was not supported by the evidence.... if this is true than the experts are also saying that there won’t be another trial and Cardinal Pell will be acquitted .
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  9. Ned Delley each case is tried on its own merits and this was a case of one persons word against that of Pell. It is also not up to Pell to prove his innocence but it’s up to the accuser to prove Pell’s Guilt.. from what I’ve seen of the reported evidence there is far from a compelling case to prove Pell’s guilt. I believe the general public and every single jury member has known that the Catholic Church has gotten away with child abuse for decades and have done virtually nothing to own this or fix it. So rather than give Pell the benefit of the doubt the jury crucified him for the past wrongs of the Catholic Church. Pell will successfully appeal this ruling
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  10. Sgt Snoke Em you would have fitted in well with the lynch mobs of yesteryear .... “fuck trials let’s just find a tree and hang those dirty Catholics”
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  11. Gentle Heart this is a re trial . ThE first trial had a hung jury of 10- 2 in favour of Cardinal Pell’s Innocence before a mistrial was declared. That first jury heard all the same evidence as the second trial as the accuser was not present at the second trial. Are you saying the 10 jury members who heard all the same evidence in the first trial got it completely wrong?
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  12. Gentle Heart suppression means not reporting until suppression order has been lifted.. well the suppression order has been lifted so all the information gathered can be reported now.. Enough of this rubbish about not being at the trial..look at the evidence rather than resort to these childish arguments
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  13. Gentle Heart any other accusations can be dealt with individually and assessed for credibility and the law can do it s job. However let’s stay focussed on this trial.. I have no sympathy for the Catholic Church as they have allowed this abuse to go on for decades and they should be held accountable.. I am however concerned that there is not a compelling case against Cardinal Pell in this particular trial and he has been unjustly convicted. I see him as a scapegoat for the sins of the Catholic Church and I have no doubt he will win his appeal. The result of that will hopefully be a bench trial as I don’t think they will find an unbiased jury anywhere in Australia
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  14. Pika Vatak thinking Cardinal Pell could abuse children is a far cry from proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he did abuse two boys. Many legal minds are shocked purely on legal grounds that Cardinal Pell was convicted of these charges based on the lack of compelling evidence that was provided.. Don’t get me wrong I think the Catholic Church has a lot to answer for, for the way they have handled child abuse for many decades and they should be held to account , however I believe Cardinal Pell is being used as a scapegoat to pay for the sins of the Catholic Church.
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  15. Becky K in Australia pedophiles should be put away for life ...However , after seeing the available evidence against Pell can you really say it was compelling enough to convict him? I think he is a scapegoat paying for the sins of the Catholic Church and the Vatican for allowing priests and brothers to get away with abusing children for decades.
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  16. Sue Montague well it was one persons word against Cardinal Pell’s. The other Boy who was supposed to be the other victim dies a few years ago but never reported any abuse and when asked by his mother denied anything happened.. so even when he was alive he did not corroborate the other persons account of what happened.. So how in hell can Cardinal Pell be found guilty when he and the other supposed victim denied anything ever happened?
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  17. Затворник Шестипалый I don’t think it is that simple. There are many married men who are pedophiles as well.. I think the priest are held in very high esteem and young children in religious families are brought up believing their priest is a step down from God so puts these priests in a position of power which I think weak and deviant minded Priests abuse.
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  18. Gentle Heart you obviously didn’t read the article you sourced as it discussed the suppression order and did not give any incites from journalist on the details of the trial.
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  19. MrMnmn911 you do realise OJ was retried in a civil lawsuit and was found guilty by the jury for the deaths of his wife and another woman... so which of the 2 juries got it right?
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  20. blindwillie99 listen idiotboy. I’m not a religious person . I’m just pointing out that there are idiots like you on juries that would find Cardinal Pell guilty even if there was no evidence available.
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  21. blindwillie99 tell me idiotboy.. what was the one piece of evidence that convinced you of his guilt.
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  22. janeen harris “labor tends to run a responsible government” Since when? Gillard and Rudd were horrible prime ministers with the whole pink batts an carbon tax debacle
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  23. Chris GS-401A idiotboy , do some research, reports on the court case are available for anyone to read.
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  24. john logan the supposed second victim who died a few years ago never reported any abuse and denied anything happened when asked by his mother.. given this evidence alone , this puts the other boy’s accusations into question. So how can any jury that isn’t looking for a scapegoat find Cardinal Pell guilty beyond reasonable doubt? Ive got no doubt this ruling will no be over turned in the court of appeals.
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  25. pabloalarroyo let’s wait and see how the appeal goes. I’m pretty confident the guilty verdict will be overturned. The best result would be once it is overturned that a bench trial occurs as I don’t believe you could find an unbiased jury
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  26. Sgt Snoke Em Dumbfuck can’t you read .. I’M NOT A CATHOLIC ! Secondly if you knew how the law worked you would know that it is not up to the accused to prove his innocence but up to the accuser to prove guilt. You bunch of #metoo “ believe all accusers “ idiots are a danger to society as you adopt the “ Guilty until proven innocent “ stance instead of “ innocent until proven guilty” stance. The most compelling evidence of Cardinal Pell’s innocence to me was that the other boy who died a few years ago never reported any abuse and on at least a couple of occasions when asked by his mother said nothing happened.. Now you can come up with speculation as to why he denied any thing ever happened when asked by his mother but the simple fact is that he said “nothing happened” . As far as I am concerned that alone should have been enough reasonable doubt of Cardina Pell’s guilt and resulted in a not guilty verdict.
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  27. I bet you are pro choice and happy to tear pre born babies limb from limb
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  28. Pika Vatak No. just establishing whether or not you’re a hypocrite or not.. To be consistent with your statement of being anti damaging children surely you’d have to be pro life.
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  29. Pika Vatak no worries.. here is a short 4 minute animation of what a 2nd trimester abortion procedure entails. I’d be interested in what you think of it.. https://youtu.be/jgw4X7Dw_3k
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  30. MrMnmn911 seems like you are agreeing with me that the jury can get it wrong.
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  31. MrMnmn911 I’d say many people would disagree that OJ Simpson was innocent of killing his wife...however he had a great lawyer and he like Michael Jackson was loved by the public... the Catholic Church on the other hand does not have the love of the general public because of their history of child abuse.
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  32. MrMnmn911 well that gave me a laugh.
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  33. Kelly Michaels come on Dorian Gray is a man.. Just reading your comment I can tell you have a strong bias against the Catholic Church and that you feel for those kids who have suffered because of priests ..That is the problem when there has been an obvious injustice that the Catholic Church has avoided dealing with for decades as when a very high profile person is accused of a crime like this there are many people who want to find him guilty to punish all those who have gotten away with it. As I said I don’t know whether Cardinal Pell is guilty or not but many people want him to be guilty and that is a problem.
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  34. blindwillie99 you just proved my case. Imagine you in a jury.
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  35. Kim Land I’m not religious or did you miss that?
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  36. Mike Newman the Kavanaugh case had nothing to do with the religious right.. it was simply about applying due process . Note that there were many liars who accused him of gang rape and other totally unbelievable claims.. The bottom line is that they were willing to lie to destroy Kavanaugh on idealogical grounds .. that is to prevent the the turning over of Rove vs Wade.. Similarly the Catholic Church deserved to be hammered for it handling of abuse of children for decades at the hands of priests and Brothers and if it meant bringing down the third highest ranked catholic in the churches hierarchy by not giving him the benefit of the doubt in a his word versus another persons word situation then so be it. This ruling is being appealed and I suspect Pell may get off.
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  37. janeen harris I agree that Pell knew what was going on with abuse of children and he should be condemned for that and so should all the hierarchy of the Catholic Church.. However I don’t think there is enough evidence against him personally being involved in child abuse to warrant a guilty verdict as it is just one persons word against Pell’s . It is up to the accuser to provide proof of guilt and based on what has been reported I don’t think enough evidence was present to warrant a guilty verdict...
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  38. janeen harris the only reason Australia was not decimated after the GFC was that Howard left the government in a strong debt free budget surplus condition.. All Rudd did was throw money away in an 80 billion dollar stimulus package giving $ 900 to every family and the wasteful school halls and pink batts debacle. If Rudd was such a great prime minister why was he stabbed in the back by his own party twice?
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  39. janeen harris I’m afraid we are completely opposite in our political views and unfortunately no amount of debate will sway the other. The world is very partisan at the moment and I think it’s getting worse. We all need something to unify us and I can’t see anything on the horizon
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  40. Big PandaaOne I think we are all well aware of how bad the Catholic Church has been when it come to abusing children.... but let’s stay focussed on the Cardinal Pell trial.. I don’t believe there is enough evidence that places more than reasonable doubt of his guilt. The key aspect to me is that the other supposed victim in this case who passed away a few years ago never reported any abuse and on at least a couple of occasions when asked by his mother said nothing happened... surely that is enough to cast reasonable doubt as to Cardinal Pell’s guilt.
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  41. This ruling has been appealed. From the evidence that has been made available how can the jury give a unanimous guilty verdict?..it is just one mans word against Pell’s word . I have not seen any compelling evidence that would convince me of Pell’s guilt, if this case did not involve the Catholic Church and was tried just based on evidence provided, Pell would not have been convicted..
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  42. Nevyn of OZ 1973 mate I don’t know you but I’m pretty show I can smash the living crap out of a pathetic SoyBoy keyboard warrior like yourself .
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  43. Ned Delley idiotboy . This is a retrial . 12 other jurors heard the exact same evidence and voted 10-2 in favour of Cardinal Pell’s innocence before hung jury was declared a mistrial so yes other have seen the evidence and dismissed it.. you idiots have no idea and are willing to scapegoat Cardinal Pell for the sins of the Catholic Church. I can’t wait to hear your howls when the court of appeal overturns this travesty of justice.
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  44. Nevyn of OZ 1973 dumbfuck. . In the same way SoyBoys like you try to ingratiate yourself with women just to get into their pants , I m betting you are trying the same thing to get closer to kids. I don’t trust you one bit and I wouldn’t allow you anywhere near a child
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  45. John Beauchamp Ball I understand victims being afraid or embarrassed to talk about their abuse for years , however with this particular case what really irks me is how disgusting the media has been in demonising Cardinal Pell prior to the trial which resulted in the chance of finding an unbiased jury extremely difficult, which I think lead to an unreasonable guilty verdict . Many legal experts are saying he has a very strong chance of winning his appeal on the grounds that the guilty verdict was unreasonable given the lack of any compelling evidence .If he does win the appeal there won’t be another trial and Cardinal Pell will be acquitted.
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  46. pabloalarroyo this particular court case is dealing with 1 man who claimed he and a now deceased man were made to perform oral sex by Cardinal Pell in 1996..there are many reports out on the details of the evidence provided... can you point to one piece of compelling evidence that puts beyond reasonable doubt that Cardinal Pell committed these vile acts? The one piece of evidence that I put to you that puts reasonable doubt on the accusations is that other man involved in this case who has died recently never reported any abuse and more importantly when asked by his mother, he said nothing happened.
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  47. pabloalarroyo You do realise that this is a re trial as the first trial resulted in a hung jury with 10 -2 in favour of Cardinal Pell’s innocence before a mistrial was declared. Tell me, given you implicitly trust this jury , how can 2 juries for the same charge get such different results?
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  48. pabloalarroyo let’s stay focused ..what has this got to do with the trial? If further credible accusations come forward let the law deal with it. The bottom line is that the finding from this trial is being appealed and from examining the conclusions of the first trial and seeing the reported evidence I strongly suspect Cardinal Pell will win his appeal. I would like to see all those guilty of abusing children hanged , however George Pell, in my opinion is a scapegoat for the sins of the Catholic Church and should never have been found guilty of these charges..
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  49. Militum Xpisti “ ABC unbiased”. That actually forced a laugh out of me
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  50. Sue Montague seriously! who doesn’t hate pedophiles? I guarantee you all those arguing that Pell’s conviction is unjust hate pedophiles just as much as the next person.. the objection we have is that The verdict is unjust and that Pell is a scapegoat to pay for the sins of the Catholic Church. If this was any other case where extreme media bias was not involved there is no way that a guilty verdict would have been returned based on the evidence that has been made available to the public
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  51. 2525 Ethical Waves how would you know if it’s damaging evidence if you haven’t seen it?
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  52. 2525 Ethical Waves luckily we don’t treat your imagination as fact
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  53. Sue Montague I usually use “matey” just before I’m just about to smash the crap out of someone but it’s interesting hearing it from someone else when directed at me especially when it’s coming from a woman.. anyway that’s an aside... I don’t know what evidence was presented behind closed doors but I do know the first jury was exposed to the same evidence and this lead to a 10-2 vote in favour of Cardinal Pell’s innocence before the hung jury lead to a mistrial.
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  54. Sue Montague well fuck You too.
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  55. 2525 Ethical Waves yes it is a fact. Let’s see how the appeal goes. I’m betting that conviction will be quashed
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  56. DJ V I just it find it so hard to believe that it happened after a Sunday service with the door wide open, many people still around,with 2 boys who were not groomed... that’s just crazy that anyone would take such a risk. The fact that the complainant changed his story about Cardinal Pell parting his robes when it was shown that this robes can’t just be parted. The fact that the other boy who died specifically said nothing happened when asked twice by his mother should be enough to provide reasonable doubt.. I also find it hard to believe the two boys never talked about this incident with each other ever again. Finally Cardinal Pell is an extremely high profile person and the media have been bashing him and the Catholic Church for years on Catholic Church related child abuse so there is no way that the jury not being exposed to any of that media coverage . Because of this, this should have been a bench trial where a single judge assessed all the evidence and come up with conclusion based on his understanding of burden of proof... the whole thing stinks and Cardinal Pell should win his appeal.
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  57. Alberto Enriquez you’re right , many priests have affairs, however I doubt that they also are the ones that abuse children... it takes a sick deviant mind to abuse children
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  58. Sgt Snoke Em firstly I’m not a Catholic or a practicing Christian so you you can stick that up your arse. Secondly if you believe in evidence ...please tell us all what was the one piece of compelling evidence that switched a 10-2 jury in favour of Cardinal Pell’s innocence in the first trial to a 12-0 vote in favour of cardinal Pell’s guilt in the retrial? This judicial process is not over and many legal experts are predicting that the verdict will be overturned on appeal due to the verdict not being supported by the evidence.
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  59. Sgt Snoke Em so where was the compelling evidence in that story? He supposedly managed to convince the jury even though he got all sorts of facts wrong.. There is no compelling evidence like another witness to verify his account, however there are 21 witnesses who testified as to the improbability and even impossibility of his account . That article just shows how people like you deal with feelings rather than facts.
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  60. Sgt Snoke Em second article/s still yet to highlight any compelling evidence. Seriously, Rather than submit articles how about just state what the compelling evidence was
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  61. Sgt Snoke Em as far as why the appeal will succeed just read the first article you submitted ..the bulk of the reasons are listed there.
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  62. Sgt Snoke Em idiotboy do you actually read any of the things you post past the title? Everything you’ve posted points towards Pell’s innocence rather than guilt.. Anyway you’re way to dumb to debate as you can’t articulate why Pell is guilty except for submitting articles that contradict your position.. Move along idiotboy I’ve had enough of talking to twits
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  63. Sgt Snoke Em yeah googling the word “wrong “ really helps your argument.. What a fucking idiot you are. Bye bye Dumbass.
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  64. Sgt Snoke Em Shit for Brains , I’ve told you couple of times but you’re too dumb to understand it. Read this article Dumbass, it outlines the reasons for appeal based on a legal experts understanding and where a successful appeal will target the juries findings.. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/28/george-pell-has-good-chance-of-winning-appeal-against-convictions-expert-says I’m betting you will come back with a stupid “ WHY WOULD AN APEAL WORK?” Even though the details are clearly outlined in this article
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