Comments by "Zudabaker" (@Vyrus36) on "The Critical Drinker" channel.

  1. It'd be great if that happened in the real world. Real world adults are more like southparkians
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  2.  @yourfatboy5359  or it could be that our values as a society are changing kinda like how they did 50, 100, and 200 years ago. People are starting to realize that the "strong stoic" type, is an unrealistic trait for a majority of the cast to have. Our cultural values are changing. And it's being reflected in the media just like it was when chivalry went out of style, just like it did when the sexual revolution came, just the same as it did back when tv took over radio. I think a lot of people make these arguments while being completely ignorant to historical context. And by historical context, I don't mean looking as far back as your nostalgia glasses will let you.
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  3.  @TheLurker1647  well, I'd say that might work for you, but not everyone needs to be a stoic to have appropriate guides and figures. Alot of this is wavering into personal opinions about philosophy, which is about as useless of an opinion as it can be. There is no true Scotsman.
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  4.  @TheLurker1647  idk, does one absolutely need to be a "stoic hero" to be a positive role model and promote growth? Or to be able to go into space? Stoicism is only one philosophy after all, and it's become a Hollywood cleche at this point.
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  5.  @Teknokill-jm2ub  wait that rant went from military decorum to devolving into a rant about showing your ass all the time. The lack of specific examples in your argument makes me question how detailed your analysis actually is, it seems to be more driven by nostalgia and wanting plots to go their way. Maybe I'm missing something here. But what is it you are actually trying to say? That a crew can't have an emotional captain? That that doesn't exist? Are you saying you want her to be put on trial? What for? Are you saying it isn't as balanced as previous shows because that I can agree with, but unrealistic?
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  6.  @alecperdeau650  amazing. You are so confident in your accusations yet couldn't be more wrong. You spent so much time pretending to know me too.
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  7.  @alecperdeau650  art is subjective. Liking something just because you like it is the point... Like, come on, be more pretentious and pedantic about your opinion. I know you can do it.
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  8. I have a question. Is it possible to be a positive role model, but not fit the traditional "stoic" mold were used to seeing in adult roles in films?
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  9.  @Teknokill-jm2ub  plus this was earlier in the federations timeline. Could it also be that they didn't have policies and procedures fully fleshed out at this point in time? Procedures and practices also do change, and become stricter or looser over time depending on what is necessary. Who knows, her crew on discovery could be the reason for some of the regulations we see in episodes later in the timeline so they can do exactly those things you are talking about.
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  10.  @Teknokill-jm2ub  this is not about what I would rather have. This is about the reality of life. There are many times those serving under leadership might be more qualified compared to a leader, what matters ultimately, is that the team is made of people that can make up for one anothers flaws. And, sometimes intuition fails us, sometimes logic fails us. The two are not mutually exclusive and both are benificial for survival and to make decisions. Some people tend to make them more with the head than the heart and others the other way around. Does that mean I think a captain is going to slide down the slippery slope of cold hard robotic logical decisions that can end in catastrophe if we continue to see stoicism as the Hallmark of leadership? No. It means I trust them to make decisions, and to have wayed those factors before making them. Some are going to be more emotionally driven, going off of gut feelings and intuition, others are going to be more logic drivin, going off of calculations and codes. All and all, at the end of the day, if you're crew responds to you, if you can get the job done, if you have people you can depend on to fill in for your weaknesses, then everything is as it should be. That may look different from ship to ship. That may vary from case to case. What one captain does may not sit well with another. But, if they have earned the respect of their crew, and I find myself on board, what would I ever have to gain by trying to ruin that dynamic? Just for my personal interests? How selfish would that be?
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  11.  @pbonfanti  to break it down most plainly, if you where to pick any pair who represents this better than anyone else, it's the joker and Batman in DC comics. Joker representing the cynic. And Batman representing the stoic. Two sides of the same coin, probably have existed since before these terms even came into being.
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  12.  @pbonfanti  but the real trick is, unlike in DC comics, either one can be the villian or the hero.
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  13. I just think the guy is acting like anyone else when they see society go in a direction they don't appreciate. Those guys will always be around, they will always have something to say, they will always act like the voice of authority on the matter, and they will always place their nostalgia glasses on when making comparison to modern works. People where worried about the quality of media during the rise of cabel, during the rise of the internet. There's always going to be someone who doesn't like the way art or media has gone. And they aren't worth listening to. Make up your own mind, like what you like, and dislike what you don't. But don't pretend this is something new.
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  14.  @sdfried4877  no, the Simpsons started that. Everyone else just saw how effective it was for the father figure to be the comic relief.
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  15.  @sdfried4877  and if anything, it's started a trend of adult males, who think it's acceptable to act like adult children, because we've glorified that kind of ignorance in shows like family guy and the Simpsons.
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  16.  @sdfried4877  I assume you're referring to the Labourdine years of nickelodeon from 84 to the mid 90s, and nicktoons didn't come out until 91. Before then, they had shows like double dare, pinwheel, third eye standby, lights camera action, and wizards world. Can you be more specific about what it is you are referring to? Because yes, Nickelodeon goes as far back as 70s. But Nickelodeon as we know it today was created in the 90s. A full 3 years after the release of the Simpsons. Do research before bringing in that weaksauce.
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  17.  @sdfried4877  you mearly adopted Nickelodeon, I was raised by it, molded by it, I didn't see a nicktoon until I was already a man.
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  18.  @sdfried4877  You mean a show modeled after similar viriety shows that where featured in the 60s and 70s? Every single concept that aired in kids programs on Nick was first an adult idea. Animation. Originally for adults. Variety shows where people act like buffoons, originally for adults. Family animated comedies, originally for adults. Comedies involving kids being more mature than adults. Started as a joke for adults, was later made for kids. You can even look up old episodes on YouTube and see similar animations as you would on Beatles album covers.
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  19.  @sdfried4877  the absurdity of a man acting more immature than a child isn't new, it isn't a concept introduced by Nickelodeon, and that specific style of show didn't happen until after the Simpsons. The variety show, and sketch comedy where the antagonists are all baffoons, wasn't a new idea when "you can't do that on television" came out. It already existed.
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  20.  @sdfried4877  enjoy your variety show made for kids that followed the same platform as any other variety show except they made the antagonists all adults. Adults acting baffoonishly in variety shows wasn't new.
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  21.  @sdfried4877  I just watched two episodes on YouTube. You can look them up, you can see a whole bunch of inspiration from shows like monty pythons flying circus and laugh in.
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  22.  @sdfried4877  they even had a similar show in the 90s called all that that was basically based on the same concept as SNL and mad tv. But yeah, everyone got it from them. Sure.
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  23.  @sdfried4877  it was a variety show for kids that depicted adults as the antagonists. Variety shows always had baffoons as antagonists.
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  24.  @sdfried4877  what I'm saying isn't "vague and meaningless" I'm talking about specific things that where drawn and inspired from other shows that came before it. You didn't even try to say anything. You just said, "see my previous statements" and told me my attempts are useless. Are they useless because you can't defend against my position or is it useless because you don't understand what the terms mean?
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  25.  @sdfried4877  I can give definitions of variety show, baffoons, kids, adults, insperation, Monty Python and any other words you're having a hard time with.
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  26.  @sdfried4877  seriously, if what I'm saying here is vague and meaningless then tell me what it is you're having a hard time with. Is it the word baffoon? If you don't know the definition, get a dictionary and look it up, and don't be surprised when you find a photo of yourself next to the definition.
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  27.  @sdfried4877  when was Disney's Peter pan released? Or any Disney film where they portray the adult villian as a bumbling fool or out of touch with reality and the child/young animal hero is the voice of reason? And you want to beat down a sketch comedy show made for kids... If format doesn't matter, then this actually started with Disney, and I'm willing to bet even before then if you look hard enough.
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  28.  @sdfried4877  lol, no. The family animated sitcom is a different format from the sketch comedy. Sit down.
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  29.  @sdfried4877  and this post, specifically was addressing the "adults acting more immature than the kids" troupe, which I correctly pointed out came before Nick. And the animated family sitcom came after. Sure, Nick is what bridged that gap, and inspired shows like the Simpsons. And Nick was inspired by Disney movies and shows like laugh in. And those where inspired by something else. Thanks for playing.
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  30.  @sdfried4877  I did read your original argument. You moved the goalposts to such a specific spot that you even disallowed Herman Munster. You've narrowed it down to human children being disrespectful to human parents, which I can bet still existed before Nickelodeon, there's just no one who wants to take the time to find it. If it deviates at all from your narrow wearhouse view, then it's dismissed and has been disallowed in your mind. So yes, by the most staunch and pedantic of definitions you are correct. But in reality people are not going to see it as you do.
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  31.  @sdfried4877  who was it I was responding to then? Because the only person who appears next to my name is @sdfried.
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  32.  @sdfried4877  and I'd still rather take that than the current developing trend in family animation, hell comedy in general where the father figure or superior male figure is a completely manipulative psychopath or Machiavelli type character. Following your logic what kind of culture do you think that is creating?
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  33.  @sdfried4877  it's not though. There are still strong male figures and dad's in movies and shows. Are they inclined to use dad's as a punchline? Yes, and I see the potential problems with it. But I still watch and support shows like Rick and Morty, and Family Guy regardless because, hey, at the end of the day it's meant to be entertainment, and if you're taking these characters litterally, then you're the one with a problem.
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  34.  @sdfried4877  the government being evil is another topic all together and I agree but I notice some people are completely one sided when trying to discuss it so I try to refrain from doing so. And that's another topic all together.
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  35.  @sdfried4877  okay, please explain what inspired that show.
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  36.  @sdfried4877  and yes, it is very specific, so specific, it's skewed. And I'm calling your skewed take out for what it is.
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  37.  @sdfried4877  do you even have any stats showing a corolative property between negative behavior in conjunction with this one specific show? Because media influence has been documented with movies like clockwork orange and the number of breaking and enterings that happened afterwards?? Or are you just talking out your ass? So yes, one on screen burglar or bumbling bad guy can give people that impression. Because that did happen with a clock work orange. Because format matters. How an audience is presented information matters. People do not take sketch comedy as seriously as they do movies and tv shows. This has all been documented and researched. And I studied some of this going to school for psychology. So really, what is it you are saying?
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  38.  @sdfried4877  it's fine, if you don't like certain networks and shows, but don't go around making your opinion a crusade just because you feel that entitled to it. Because your opinion, is just that, an opinion.
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  39.  @sdfried4877  what do you think had more impact on American culture? The Disney movies that are still played and remembered to this day and the longest running animated family show in history? Or some sketch comedy from the 80s hardly anyone can remember? If you're looking for what started making impact in that direction then, well, I hate to break it to you...
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  40.  @sdfried4877  not only that, but the level of realism matters. That's why not many people take sketch comedy as seriously. That's why the Simpsons, is seen as a bigger problem than Rick and Morty though they are both family animated comedies. That's why clockwork orange got the reputation it did, and a large amount of people didn't go and mad max there trucks after seeing the thunderdom. It's why giving animals anthropomorphic features can confuse our nature with actual animal nature. The more realistic the characters feel, the more likely people are to adopt their personalities and traits. A live action sketch comedy, is none of those things, and the only thing more removed from reality would be the animated sketch comedy, like robot chicken or Rick and Mortys multidimensional cabel episodes in which there's no way to build familiarity with the characters, the scenes are completely outlandish, and it's not even live action. It seems to me that this one particular show got you miffed and you've become inclined to label it for everything bad thing to come from bratty kids and bad programing ever since.
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  41.  @sdfried4877  like I said before. You mearly adopted Nickelodeon. I was raised by it, molded by it. I didn't see a nicktoon until I was already a man.
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  42.  @sdfried4877  no, you acted like it was difinitive evidence and replaced the original discussion to a position where you felt it would be most comfortable. I can copy and paste what was said if you like.
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  43.  @sdfried4877  and of course you don't understand what I just wrote, because you never even considered it to be a factor to begin with. I've learned in classrooms about media impact and how to spot when someone is trying to present their opinion and observation as fact. You're only back pedaling now because you got caught. You disgust me.
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  44.  @sdfried4877  either way, if you're lying, or if you genuinely didn't understand that's what you where doing, you are the one who has been being disingenuous, you are either presenting your experience or your opinion as fact, and didn't realize it, or are back pedaling because you got caught. And as soon as impact was made to be important you backed off on that argument too. You don't like the show. Okay? And? You saw it and saw kids being bratty towards parents? In a sketch comedy for kids? Oh no. Like I said, only by the staunchest and most pedantic of definitions are you right. You moved the goalposts clear from the op, into your own field. I shall leave you there. Enjoy picking up flowers.
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  45.  @Teknokill-jm2ub  so in other words, they act like real people might act and are influenced by their emotions and development and not like the stoic hero types that are actually a rarity in society?
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  46.  @pbonfanti  stoicism was nothing more than an attempt to clean up classic cynicism under the authority of even tempered thought.
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  47.  @pbonfanti  and it was definitely more than successful in achieving that end. I refer to stoicism as a ethical, well mannered, personal account of cynicism (which cynicism of course doesn't consider ethics, manners, and believes these rules must apply to everyone so they can see the lie that society is.) Stoicism is understanding what society is and utilizing that with a cool headed calmness associated with the philosophy itself.
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  48. People said this same kinda thing in the 80s....
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  49. Maybe you should look again into how the critics and traditionalists took the 1966 debut...
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  50.  @90lancaster  you don't say? And it wasn't also put under fire for addressing social issues at the time I guess either?
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