Comments by "Jackie Wu" (@jwu1950) on "Ричард Докинз: Воинствующий атеизм" video.
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Desdenova262 Certainly. God means different thing to different people at different time, these are all parts of the One and the same God. God has infinite parts.
Evidence for God : the birds and the bees, the flowers and the trees, the fish in the seas, the far galaxies, the food that we eat, the air that we breathe, everything comprehensible and all that is incomprehensible to you and me.
Logical proof for God : the law of cause and effect points to a first cause we called God.
Evidence that God means different thing to different people : Greek gods, Jewish God, Hindu gods, atheists' gods, ... are all different parts of the One and the same God. Logical proof : God cannot be God if God is not infinite and therefore has infinite parts.
Evidence that God means different thing to a person at different time : your God when you were 8, 18, and now are probably all different, true ? Logical proof : God cannot be God if God is knowable as a concrete object.
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Desdenova262 People kill people since the beginning of history. No one knows the Will of God, not even Jesus.
Evolution does not explain the origin of life. And evolution is just a godless fairy tales. It is neither a fact nor a single scientific theory.
Your asked, " First cause could be any number of things couldn't it?" It could. We don't know. We just know the first cause exist. God is not knowable like infinity is not knowable. We can only know bits and pieces of a small number of parts of God, and of infinity.
You asked, "If god is infinite why can't the universe be so?" Why not ? There is probably infinite number of infinite universes in the infinite God. But we don't get to know it, at least not yet.
I haven't mentioned ID. But if you want to talk about it, we can. Each and every living organism has intelligence designed into it to enables it to survive and to reproduce. That is a fact. The logical proof that the intelligence in living organisms is designed is the fact that all matters of intelligence we can observe are designed, like computers and space stations are designed by human with human intelligence.
You said, "a god that is way more complicated must have been designed" That's a possibility. But we don't know because we don't get to examine our intelligent designer.
You said, "Evolution solves this compounded problem." The truth is evolution solves nothing and explains nothing. It is just a faith based on Natural Selection. Unless by Nature we mean God, Nature has no intelligence to enable Nature to act, choose, and select.
You said, "things start out simple and over time become more complex." The truth is time works against Darwin, not for him. All our observations confirmed things change from order and complexity into chaos and simplicity over time, and not the other way round. Further more, chance and necessity does not exist, the law of cause and effect dictates that everything is caused and there can be no accident. The space capsule carrying Armstrong landed on the moon by design, not by chance, It could not have landed on the moon, mars or Jupiter by accident.
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Ben Dover So you believe gravity exist. Do you know that today, that is 300+ years after Newton discovered the law of gravity, no one knows what gravity is ? We can observe the effects of gravity just like we can observe the effect of God. But we cannot observe gravity itself just like we cannot observe God. We don't know what is gravity but we believe in gravity because we can observe and measure the effects of gravity. Similarly we don't know what is God but we believe in God because we can observe and measure the effects of God. So if you believe in gravity you should have no problem believing in God.
Metaphysics is not science. It is the foundation of science. All scientific theories are in essence metaphysical. I told you that already. I'll quote a source and I'll give you an example so you may understand it easier. Per Wiki, "Much recent work has been devoted to analyzing the role of metaphysics in scientific theorizing. Alexandre Koyré led this movement, declaring in his book Metaphysics and Measurement, "It is not by following experiment, but by outstripping experiment, that the scientific mind makes progress."[33] Imre Lakatos maintained that all scientific theories have a metaphysical "hard core" essential for the generation of hypotheses and theoretical assumptions.[34] Thus, according to Lakatos, "scientific changes are connected with vast cataclysmic metaphysical revolutions."
For example E=MCC, mass, equal, speed of light, square, are all metaphysical concepts, none of these is physical matter, none of these can be observed. Only their effects can be observed. They are things thought to exist but cannot be seen. Definition of metaphysical, per Webster,
metaphysical
adjective meta·phys·i·cal \-ˈfi-zi-kəl\
: of, relating to, or based on metaphysics
: of or relating to things that are thought to exist but that cannot be seen.
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Ben Dover No one knows what is gravity. When a pencil falls from your hand to the floor, no one knows if it was pushed to the floor, sucked to the floor, or carried to the floor by some god particles called gravitons. Learn this, pencils fall from your hand to the floor is the effect caused by gravity.
All around us are the birds and the bees, the flowers and the trees, the fish in the seas, the far galaxies, the food that we eat, the air that we breathe, everything comprehensible and all that is incomprehensible to you and me. Learn this, these are all effects caused by God the first cause.
The evidence for metaphysical things like gravity is the observable effects like pencils falling from your hand to the floor. The proof for gravity is the logical deduction that these effects are caused by gravity.
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Puff,TheMagic Yes, militant atheists like Dawkins, Krauss, Harris, and Bitchens are white supremacists. They are all white, they believe in evolution which is a white supremacy fairy tale, they spread hates of Muslims who are mostly non white,
The overwhelming evidence for God includes the birds and the bees, the flowers and the trees, the fish in the seas, the far galaxies, the food that we eat, the air that we breathe, everything comprehensible and all that is incomprehensible to you and to me. One of the logical proof for God is the law of cause and effect which logically point to a first cause. we call the first cause God.
Atheists are irrational, illogical, and delusional because they believe that there is no God with zero evidence and zero logical proof, against the overwhelming evidence and logical proofs for God.
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Puff,TheMagic
1) I've given you the evidence these militant atheists are white supremacists. I'll re[peat them here : They are all white, they believe in evolution which is a white supremacy fairy tale, they spread hates of Muslims who are mostly non white,
2) Science cannot and does not address the question of God. God is metaphysical. Metaphysics explain science. Science cannot and does not explain the metaphysical reality. All scientific theories are in essence metaphysical. If you believe in gravity and life you should have no problem believing in God.
3) God means different thing to different people at different time, these are all parts of the One and the same God. God has infinite parts. God is eternal, does not need a creator or designer. There is a lot about the metaphysical reality that is unknowable to humans. We can observe only a very tiny, tiny part of the effects of the metaphysical reality that we believe is our physical universe, there is infinitely more effects that is not observable by humans. For example todays scientists know nothing of the dark matters and dark energy which composed of roughly 96% of our physical universe, and they only scratched the surface of the remaining 4%. See how irrational and illogical you are to even suggest that science has all the answers ?
4) You can read these hate books and follow these hate mongers, that's up to you. To suggest that there is no God is a delusion, and a delusional person says God is a delusion. Something cannot come from nothing, and to suggest something come from nothing is another delusion. No valid evidence is presented in these hate books to suggest that there is no God. I have shown you the overwhelming evidence and logical proofs for God. So if you have read these hate books and found any evidence that there is no God that you find valid, list them out here for us to see.
The law of cause and effect is valid. Random chance and accidents are invalid. They do not exist in real life, only in fairy tales like evolution.
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Steve Mc G We call the first cause God, but you can call the first cause by any other name like Thor, Zeus, the devil. No problem, at least you have learned from me that there is a first cause. You are not my brightest student but what the heck, not everyone is gifted.
You are a liar, you have not examined the DNA of your great-great-great grand father. You probably don't even know where his grave is. Neither have you records of any eye witnesses that he even exist. You think you are the prince of England or something ? Even the prince of England have not examined the DNA of his great-great-great grand father. You guys just believe your great-great-great grand father exist based on hearsay. As for Jesus, we can communicate with his spirit, which is alive in his teachings, right now. We can do the same with the spirit of Socrates, Newton, Einstein, and MLK - these are all believers of God, also Buddha, Confucius, and Chairman Mao.
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Puff,TheMagic Deities are eternal, they do not become extinct. God means different thing to different people at different time, these are all parts of the One and the same God. God has infinite parts.
God is not knowable and cannot be defined. There is no definition of God. We believe in the first cause based on observable evidence and logical proof and we call the first cause God. That's just one of the effects of God that is observable and comprehensible to humans. There is also God the intelligent designer, and God the law giver. But there is infinitely more effects of God that is incomprehensible and unknowable to humans.
You choose to believe that there is no God because others have different interpretations of God ? What kind of logic is that ? Do you believe in gravity, in life, and in time ? People have different interpretation of these too, currently, as well as in the past. And no one knows what gravity, life, and time are. If you believe in gravity you should have no difficulty believing in God.
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***** Most certainly. Why ? Do you have doubt that one day humans will be able to regrow an amputated leg, cure Down's syndrome, eliminate disease, bring back the death, and eliminate fraud ? What is the bases of your doubt ?
What you pray for is for you to decide. What and when you'll receive is not up to you. That is why action, persistence and faith make a difference. Jesus told us parables about action, persistence and faith :
Luke 11:9-10
And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.
Luke 18:1-8 And he told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man. And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, ‘Give me justice against my adversary.’ For a while he refused, but afterward he said to himself, ‘Though I neither fear God nor respect man, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will give her justice, so that she will not beat me down by her continual coming.’” ...
Matt 15:22-28 22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”
23 But He answered her not a word.
And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”
24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”
26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”
27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”
28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
May the love and the peace of Jesus be with you.
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*****
1) Invalid. WTF is 1 apple ? Where does the first 1 apple begin and where does it end and the second 1 apple begin ? WTF is 2 ?
2) Invalid proof of gravity. Did the something you dropped fall because it was pushed, pulled, sucked, or gently carried to the ground by some invisible gravitons ? Or was it just an illusion ?
3) Invalid argument. WTF is natural causes if it does not mean God given causes ?
You said, "Your flawed logic is, we don't know what caused it so god did it."
You were wrong. That was not my logic. That was yours. Your flawed logic is : we don't know the cause and so God does not exist. My logic is we believe everything that exists is caused to exist as demonstrated by the law of cause and effect, and we call the first cause God the Creator. Logic tell us the Creator, God, existed before anything was caused into existence, so the Creator must be non physical but metaphysical. And logic tells us that what is metaphysical is unobservable and unknowable to humans. We humans cannot know God, we can only believe in God based on logic applied towards evidence which would be our repeatable observations of some of the observable effects of God but never the entity God because that is unobservable to humans.
I gave everyone the overwhelming evidence and logical proofs for God and none of that is personal feeling or assertion. No one here expect you to believe in any of the thousands of gods or any personal god or belief. We are talking logic applied towards evidence which are both objective and verifiable. The burden of proof is on you if you wish to refute or counter these objective and verifiable logic and evidence.
So, give up your superstition and learn the truth. May the love and the peace of Jesus be upon you.
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***** You said, " So you admit prayer does not work." WTF made you say that ? When did I ever say prayers does not work ? To be specific, what I said regarding prayers is that just as Jesus taught us, prayers without faith, persistence, and subsequent actions are not prayers but wishful thinking like the wishful thoughts of dogs.
You said, "I know humans will probably figure stuff out with science.
No god needed."
I asked and you have not answered, "Do you have doubt that one day humans will be able to regrow an amputated leg, cure Down's syndrome, eliminate disease, bring back the death, and eliminate fraud ? What is the bases of your doubt ?"
Now you said you have no doubt and you know. So I need to ask you WTF is the bases of your knowledge ? And WTF made you think that God is not needed ? I don't think your statement was a scientific statement. It is merely your bullshit.
You said, "Some how I knew you would resort to quoting from your fairy tale book.
That is not proof."
Who said that is proof ? And what fairy tale book were you referring to ? I quoted the teachings of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels as evidence, not proof. The Gospels are records of the life and teachings of Jesus as interpreted by different authors, not a fairy tale book. Don't confuse the Gospels with the Bible, the OT, the Torah, or the NT.
Give up your superstition and learn the truth, okay ?
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*****
1) What do you hope an apple is ? And WTF has hope got to do with facts ?
2) What do you hope 2 is ? And WTF has hope got to do with numbers ?
3) You said, "When something falls it can be measured and predicted.
We labeled it gravity."
WTF can be measured and predicted ? I'd say its the effect caused by gravity, but you say it is gravity ? WTF made you say that ?
4) You said, "Gravity exists and is observable ...."
I also believe gravity exist, but observable ? How long, how wide, how deep, how big, how heavy, how much, how noisy, how hard, how soft, how smooth, how rough, how sweet, how stinky, .... I bet you can't give us an answer to any of these observational questions. The truth of the matter is : gravity, like God, life, and time are metaphysical, and what is metaphysical is unobservable and unknowable to humans. We humans can only believe in these entities based on logic applied towards our repeatable observations of some of the observable effects of these entities but never of these entities themselves for they are unobservable to humans.
You need to learn more about science and gravity. Einstein believed gravity either does not exist or it is a fictitious force, but QM experts disagree and claim gravity is caused by gravitons but they have no evidence. So in a nut shell, no one knows WTF gravity is. And that is a scientific statement.
We call the first cause God the Creator. The first cause is proven by logic in the law of cause and effect. A law is an unexplained but repeatable confirmation by repeatable observations.
You said, "I am not wrong.
Anything that is unknown you believe god did it."
You are wrong. Everything that exists, known as well as unknown to humans, is caused to exist. We call the first cause God the Creator.
You said, "Science is constantly learning and explaining the unknown and each time this happens your god shrinks."
Misconception. It is true science is constantly learning and explaining the unknown, but science cannot learn and explain the unknowable. Dark matters, dark energies, and what is currently happening in galaxies billions of light years away from earth is unknown, but gravity, life, time, and God are unknowable and is beyond the reach of science. God is all encompassing, metaphysical, and unknowable to humans. God does not shrink. Even if God does shrink, we humans wouldn't know about it. :)
Give up your superstition and learn the truth, okay ?
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***** You asked, " How do you know this." I said we believe, I didn't say we know. We believe based on logic applied towards evidence.
You said, "The big bang is the first cause as far as we know it."
Sorry, no. The big bang is an effect. It is caused. The cause of the big bang is unknowable, not merely unknown. God is God of the whole show, not your god of the gap logical fallacy.
You said, "You come to a conclusion and try to find evidence to prove it."
You are confusing evidence with proof. There are scientific evidence but there is no such thing as scientific proof. Proofs only exist in logic and mathematics. A conclusion can only be reached by logic applied towards evidence. The evidence for God is everything that exists. The logical proof for God is the law of cause and effect which tied all these evidence to God the Creator, the first cause.
That's true. I already told you no one knows WTF an apple is or WTF 1 , or 2 is. But you said you know 1+1=2 by adding 1 apple to another 1 apple to arrive at 2 apples. If you agree that no one knows WTF apple, 1, and 2 are, you might as well say 2 gravity plus 2 gravity equals 1 gravity. It still makes no sense and it is still invalid. This analysis is based on truth and verifiable facts and has nothing to do with nudity.
So give up your superstition and learn the truth, okay ?
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***** No. Muslims believe Jesus is a prophet but I already told you Jesus is not a prophet and he had never prophesized. Jesus is not Christ. He had never said he was Christ. Jesus claimed he is the way, the truth, and the life.
You asked, "Did you make up your own delusional religion.
One that doesn't believe in the bible but believes in Jesus."
No. Jesus, Einstein, and I believe in God, and we do not believe in any religion or follow any religion. Believing in Jesus is not a religion and does not require believing in the Bible, just like believing in Newton is not a religion and does not require believing in the Bible. You seemed to be a very confused person.
You said, "Who quotes the bible but doesn't believe it.
Someone that believes in Jesus but doesn't believe he was Christ."
I quoted from the Gospels, not the Bible. Jesus is not Christ. He never said he was Christ. Christians believe in Christ, but their do not necessarily believe in Jesus. I am not a Christian. I believe in Jesus and I follow his teachings.
May the love and the peace of Jesus be upon you.
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