Comments by "rockethead7" (@rockethead7) on "Real Stories"
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Oh, who was "catching on"? Were the Soviets "catching on" when they tracked the Apollo missions to the moon and back with radar and radio telescopes? What about the other dozens of countries that did that also? When Japan sent Selene to the moon, and found signs of the Apollo missions on the moon, were they "catching on"? How about Arizona State University's LRO camera, which has been sending back images of the Apollo landing sites for over a decade? Why haven't those people "caught on"? How about China, which saw the Apollo landing sites with their orbital cameras also? No? They didn't "catch on"? Just a few months ago, India released their photos of the Apollo landing sites that they captured with their lunar orbiter, which showed the exact same thing that all of the others show... landers, rover tracks, foot paths, etc. Why haven't they "caught on" to whatever you think you've caught on to?
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@ICANanimations
YOU SAID: "Starship will be active within 10 years."
== Well, maybe. Who knows? Certainly in one form or another. But, it had better be faster than 10 years in the lunar lander form of Starship, because the rest of the Artemis program will be ready before then, and I'd hate to see them just waiting for a lander. Of course, that can happen (waiting for one craft).
YOU SAID: "if not them it will be Blue Origin doing it."
== Bezos lost the lawsuit. But, yes, in the back of my mind, I hope it still swings over to Blue. I never liked Starship.
YOU SAID: "SLS just rolled out"
== Yes, there is a certain irony when the conspiratards keep saying we can't do it today, when a moon rocket is sitting on the launchpad this very minute.
YOU SAID: "bringing humans back to the moon in 2024."
== Lunar orbit maybe. Almost certainly no landing by then. Even NASA isn't spewing that date for landings any longer (a date which congress never approved the funding for anyway). Congress funded it at a rate that would make the landings in 2028-2030, according to the White House OMB. But, yeah, that sort of thing changes a lot. So, we'll see. Might be faster, might be slower, might get canceled altogether. Time will tell.
YOU SAID: "there is still hope for you"
== Love your optimism.
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"Artemis apparently orbited the moon, it did not take any pictures or our previous supposed moon landings"
Huh? Do you have any concept of how high the Artemis orbit was? No, it couldn't take photos of the landing sites. And, don't pretend it would matter to you if they did. You already said you won't accept evidence provided by NASA. You're already denying the LRO photos. So, more photos will not matter to you. Don't pretend otherwise.
"Outside corroborating evidence"
Have you looked for it? Spain took photos of the SIVB fuel dumps around the moon (they had the biggest telescope at that time, which was able to capture the fuel dumps because they spanned out for miles). They also used that telescope to take photos of the Apollo 13 debris field (which, once again, spanned for miles). Japan's JAXA/Selene orbiter took 2D and 3D photos, and they have an entire section of their website dedicated to how they used it to prove Apollo. China's orbiters have seen the Apollo landing sites. You can bounce lasers off of the Apollo reflectors left on the moon, which has been done every single day, from laser ranging facilities all around the world, including enemy countries, since the Apollo 11 astronauts were still on the lunar surface. Dozens of countries tracked the Apollo missions to the moon and back using radio telescopes and radar. Spain and Australia received most of the video and audio transmissions from the moon, while pointing their dishes AT THE MOON. Hundreds of backyard amateurs all around the world could tune into the Apollo audio simply by pointing their dishes at the moon. They gathered 850 pounds of lunar material, which has been examined by geologists from all over the world, and those samples have never been exposed to oxygen or moisture (good luck finding that on Earth). The list goes on and on and on. How about asking questions FIRST, then coming to conclusions LATER?
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"your assertion concerning the absence of a blast crater"
You have no concept of what kind of thrust it would take to dig a crater. Helicopters have far more downward thrust than the lunar lander did. A typical helicopter lands with 10x the vertical thrust. Big ones land with 40x the vertical thrust. No craters, not even when they land on sandy beaches. Why would you expect a crater from the lander? And, why do you suppose there aren't any aerospace engineers that agree with you?
"or a disturbance of any reasonable metric"
Well, there was plenty of dust blown, and it shows when you look at the close-up photos. It's pretty clear that rocket engines were running. But, if you think there are some "reasonable metrics," then go publish a science paper on those metrics. Submit it for peer review. What are you waiting for?
"a departure from reality and common sense."
So, the "common sense" is to believe that the world's aerospace engineers can't spot these "problems" you think you've spotted. And, people like you, with no knowledge in this field, are the ones who are the real experts? Really? That makes "common sense" to you?
"pressure that the F-1 engine would create decending to the lunar surface"
The F1, huh? With 1.5 million pounds of thrust each. For a lander that weighed about 2500 to 2700 pounds at landing. Um, dewdrop, the only thing that would be happening if they fired an F1 with a lander attached (I dare not even say a lander with an F1 attached, because, at that scale, it's a rocket with a craft attached, not a craft with a rocket attached), is that the astronauts would be crushed from the force of acceleration, and the only direction they'd be going is straight up.
"would have washed the surface underneath the LEM kicking up dust and debris everywhere."
OK, you've got me there. Yes, if they had an engine with 1.5 million pounds of thrust, sure, now maybe you might expect a blast crater or something.
"No evidence of this exists under any of the LEM's for all 6 Apollo missions. That's the proof"
Sorry, but your "proof" fails miserably. I mean, seriously here, did you REALLY think you spotted this "gotcha" that not a single aerospace engineer on the face of the Earth has been able to figure out? Really? C'mon man. The F1? It couldn't even be throttled. It was 100% thrust, or turned off. Those were the only two settings. And, have you seen one of those things in person? The engine bell alone was 12 feet wide and 20 feet tall. Just the bell alone. That doesn't include the rest of the rocket. You think that huge rocket was on the bottom of the landers?
"okay, fair enough the LEM rocket may not have been an F-1"
And, yet, this doesn't give you pause. You think you understand more about rocketry than the entire planet's aerospace engineers. Yet, when you don't even know what rocket was used, you don't even step back and realize that you're out of your lane. Nope. You continue to believe that, somehow, the entire planet's experts are wrong, and you're right... while you confuse 1.5 million pounds of thrust with 2.5 thousand pounds of thrust. You are off by a factor of 600x. And, this doesn't even cause you to skip a beat. Nope, it's still full speed ahead, denial denial denial, accusing thousands of people of participating in a fraud... while you can't identify the difference between an F1 engine and a lunar lander's engine.
"since it was never disclosed as to what engine it used"
Ridiculous babble. When will you ever understand to just stop? Why? Why would you EVER say such a silly thing? What possible reason? There are terabytes of documents outlining the exact specifications of the engine. But, beyond that, just walk into the Smithsonian and look at it. They have F1 engines on display. They have the lunar modules engines on display. They're clearly labeled. Don't sit here and pretend they were never disclosed. This is beyond nonsense, and you're just making excuses.
"i just assumed it was the F-1"
Why?
"nevertheless NASA did disclose that it produced 10k lbs. of thrust, can we agree on that?"
Yes, 10,500 max. But, that engine (on the descent stage) could be throttled. The F1 couldn't. And, upon landing, it was down to about 2500 to 2700 pounds of thrust. Go take the cross section of the engine bell, and do the math yourself on the PSI. (Hint: it's less pressure per square inch than a human footprint.)
"for ot not to have completely washed the surface below it is an impossibility."
See what I mean, dewdrop? Do you understand why nobody can respect such gibberish? You just demonstrated time and again that you don't even have an entry level understanding of the topic. Not even the basics. And, you certainly don't understand this either.
Dewdrop, before you go running around, accusing thousands of people of being criminals who would spend the rest of their lives in prison if you were correct, how about asking a few questions first? How about getting an education? How about realizing that you don't actually know anything? No? Accuse first? And, I was going to say that you might learn something second. But, I seriously doubt you really want to learn anything.
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Nick already answered you, but, I'll add the same basic sentiment a bit differently. You can look up the schematics and demonstrate your claim that the stuff wouldn't fit. But, none of you conspiratards do that. You just say "too big" or "too small" or "not enough" or "too much" to things like the size of the lander, radiation, fuel, etc. None of you people ever calculate it. None of you people look at the schematics and do the math. No. Instead, you go on YouTube and pretend you know what you're talking about. Dummy, how do you think this conspiracy goes, anyway? The thousands of Grumman engineers and technicians who designed and built the lander never said, "oh, wait a minute, we forgot to make the rover fit!!!" No? They're all too stupid to realize they forgot to make the rover fit? But, YOU say it can't? How about the engineers at Boeing and GM? They never realized they forgot to make the rover be able to fold up and fit in the lander either? No? Decades go by, and not a single one of them has ever said, "wait a minute, we forgot to make the rover be able to fold up!!!!" No?
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"Thrust line below C of G easily could create tipping."
Below, huh? And, you're an engineer? What's wrong with below the center of gravity? I mean, with rockets, you're more worried about center of mass, not center of gravity, but, ok, those two concepts are basically the same thing, so, I can forgive the misnomer. But, didn't you mean to the SIDE of the center of gravity? No? Below it will cause tipping? You're worried about a line of thrust that's directly below? Why? Also, rockets have these things called GIMBALS to deal with any center of gravity/mass issues. Nearly all rockets have them, because no rocket has 100% perfect center of mass/gravity. I'm surprised that an aviation engineer such as yourself would fail to understand something so simple. It's true that the ascent engine on the lunar module didn't have one, and it used RCS instead. So what?
If you're an engineer, why would you choose YouTube comments as your forum to announce to the world that you've calculated that the lunar module wouldn't do what it was designed to do? Why aren't you publishing in the engineering journals? Only crackpots think YouTube comments are the place to provide this Earth-shattering revelation. You're not one of those, are you?
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So, let me make sure I understand you correctly. You made two replies. One reply said that you were going to ignore everything I stated, and you ranted about my "inadequacies" and other nonsense... anything you could to to shift the focus off of the facts, and targeting me personally instead, making it quite clear that you have no interest in anything I say. Yet, your second message was asking me more questions? Huh? And, your opening question basically proved that you didn't even read my first reply, because immediately, you claimed that I was saying that they couldn't jump more than a couple of feet... even though I clearly said that Duke jumped about 4 feet (double what you thought I said)? So, you won't read what I wrote, you'll ignore it, but, you want me to sit here and explain more stuff for you to ignore?
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So, before you get the answers to your questions, you already came to your conclusions. Bravo. The Van Allen radiation is dangerous if you stay in the worst of it for over a week (or so). Hence, they don't go up into them with the ISS, because, as you already pointed out, those missions last for many months. Furthermore, the higher you go, the more energy you need to put into a craft. There's a big difference between lifting a craft a couple hundred miles vs. lifting a craft a couple hundred thousand miles. You seem to think that time is what matters, and not energy? Um, no. Thermodynamics. Go learn it. Yes, they send 4,000 pound orbiters to the moon, but, if you want to lift a manned craft, landers, etc. (total weight is about 100,000 pounds), that's a different thing entirely. Are you under the impression that the entirety of the world's aerospace engineers (who universally disagree with everything you're saying) don't understand how this stuff works, and you do?
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Yeah, I had dinner with Gene Cernan once, met him a few other times for drinks (he drank, but, I don't drink alcohol), a couple of informal interviews, etc. And, I almost bought his blue Corvette (but, I already had a '72, and didn't need a '74). I never met Young. He's one of the few moonwalkers I didn't meet. How was Young in person? He doesn't seem to talk much in some of the interviews I've seen. But, I know nothing about his actual personality.
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