Comments by "Michael Mappin" (@michaelmappin1830) on "Intercollegiate Studies Institute"
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@CesarGarcia-og8rz , that simply isn't true. Capitalism is not the only system that allows competent people to be free. I can't believe you said that. Capitalism is about owning for a living. It's the idea that you don't actually have to work. You can just accumulate capital and live off of other people's labour. Capitalism is literally economic feudalism.
Just like with the Monopoly board game, capitalist one to accumulate as much Capital as possible. It ends up going to the richest members of society. For example, Bill Gates is now the largest owner of Farmland in the United States. He even owns a big chunk of the Canadian Railway system. The more Capital you own, the faster your wealth grows in relation to everyone else. So now we have this situation where the riches 1% owned most of the capital on the planet. Therefore they get to make most of the decisions in regards to what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced how much workers get paid, what kind of environment people have to labour in, Etc. That's why most things are made in China and why wages are so low. That's why they get most of the wealth produced by labour. Obviously you should get most of the wealth produced by your labour, not someone else. And by default they control the government and economic system. That's why regardless how people vote or complain, the banks keep getting bailed out, the military budget keeps expanding, Wars are unending, Etc. Under capitalism the government does not represent workers. It represents the owners of capital; the owning class.
The founding fathers were very clear that workers should be relegated to Mere spectators. All workers can do under this system is fight for Privileges and protections under the law. The capitalist class did everything they could to prevent the eight-hour day, the five-day work week, minimum wage, child labour laws, consumer safety standards, old age pensions, Etc. If they had their way, we'd still be working 16 hours a day along with nine-year-old children.
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@rogerburn5132 , how can you say that capitalism is the best system? That doesn't make any sense. Sure, the billionaires spend hundreds of millions of dollars annually on propaganda trying to convince people that it's the best system. We don't need capitalism in order to have a business, have production, aftermarket, have people selling and trading things. Capitalism allows the richest members of society to control most of the capital on Earth! That allows them to get most of the wealth produced by labour and to be able to make most of the decisions in regards to what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced, how much workers get paid, Etc. That's why wages are so low and why most things are made in China. So why would you think capitalism is the best system? Also, it is one of the most wasteful and destructive systems ever devised. Most of the labour energy of workers ends up in the landfill while the majority of what's left over ends up in the pockets of the richest members of society. Do you have any idea how insane that is? And since you don't even need capitalism in order to have a business or production, exactly is your reason for supporting it? There are only two types of people that support capitalism. Those who have enough Capital where they don't have to work for a living. And those who have been indoctrinated by Propaganda. Here is part 1 of A six-part series on capitalist propaganda just since 19:45. I would recommend you watch all six parts: Part 1: http://youtu.be/EIk6-4KosE0
"It is reliably estimated that species extinctions now proceed at 1000 times their normal rate, and that up to 99% of the materials used in the US production process end up as waste within 6 weeks. For every ton of garbage, in turn, there are 5 tons of materials to produce it, and 25 tons extracted from nature to yield these materials."
~ .jaunimieciai.lt/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/the-cancer-stage-of-capitalism.
At this stage of the global market system’s reproduction of transnational money sequences to unheard-of volumes and velocities of transaction and growth, a systematic and irreversible destruction of planetary life-organization emerges for the first time in history. If we consider the defining principles of carcinogenic invasion and eventual destruction of a life-host, and do not avoid or deny the symptom profile in evidence, we discern a carcinogenic pattern increasingly penetrating and spreading across civil and environmental life-organization.
There are 7 defining properties of a cancer invasion which medical diagnosis recognizes at the level of the individual organism. These seven properties can now be recognized for the first time at the level of global life-organization as well. And this is the pathological core of our current
disease condition.
That is, there is:
(1) an uncontrolled and unregulated reproduction and multiplication of an agent in a host body; that
(2) is not committed to any life function of its life-host; that
(3) aggressively and opportunistically appropriates nutriments and resources from its social and natural hosts in uninhibited growth and reproduction; that
(4) is not effectively recognized or responded to by the immune system of its hosts; that
(5) possesses the ability to transfer or to metastasize its growth and uncontrolled reproduction to sites across the host body; that
(6) progressively infiltrates and invades contiguous and distant sites of its life- hosts until it obstructs, damages and/or destroys successive organs of their
life-systems; and that
(7) without effective immune-system recognition and response eventually destroys the host bodies it has invaded."
"The essence of capitalism, its raison d'être, is not to build democracy, or help working people, or save the environment, or build homes for the homeless. Its goal is to convert nature into commodities and commodities into capital, to invest and accumulate, transmuting every part of the world into its own image for its own realization. The modern capitalist imperative is simply to create more money for idle investors by any means possible. This growth is often enabled by predation on the publicly-held resources that represents real value, thereby diminishing the community's ability to sustain itself in the long run. Forests are clear-cut; public utilities are privatized; social programs are gutted; and so on. The net result is that the quality of life for the vast majority of the world's citizens has declined." ~ Michael Parenti
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@rogerburn5132 , capitalism is not merely selling the product of your labour. If you write a book and you sell it in the market, that is not capitalism. If you grow vegetables in your garden and sell them in the market, that is not capitalism. Capitalism is only about 250 years old and didn't exist prior to the Scientific Revolution and enclosure movement. It was the Scientific Revolution and enclosure movement that actually made capitalism possible in the first place. The conversion to capitalism was extremely violent and bloody because people had to be forced off of the land and separated from the resources before they would tolerate and submit to wage slavery. Back then wage slavery was considered to be almost as bad as chattel slavery.
And no, the workers and consumers do not get to decide what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced, Etc. That's a luxury that belongs mostly to the upper 1%.
In order for a company to be capitalist, not only does it have to be privately owned, they have to be capitalizing on other people's labour for profit. Otherwise, it's not capitalism. If merely selling the product of one's labour was capitalism, that would mean that capitalism existed prior to the Scientific Revolution, dating back 500 years. Markets and production existed long before capitalism. Plato and Aristotle absolutely despise the markets because they allocate scarce resources to the wealthiest members of society. Market started appearing shortly after the Egger cultural revolution 12 to 13 thousand years ago.
Capitalism is a completely new concept. It's the religion that says the richest members of society can basically own all the capital on the planet and then charge access and usage fees. Because they almost the capital, the vast majority of people on the planet have no choice other than to sell their labour for a fraction of what it's actually worth. That is modern slavery. That's what the enclosure movement was about. Putting people in a state of dependency so they would be forced to work in capitalist factories. And then, the capitalist class can then store the labour energy of other people in the form of money. They can do that in perpetuity. You see, there is a reason that John Locke came up with the concept of labour theory of ownership. Basically, if you don't work for it, you can't own it. People should only be entitled to the wealth they actually work for! But capitalism is the concept of being able to accumulate wealth without working. That is the main function of capitalism. The capitalist imperative is the maximization of capital accumulation for the purpose of extracting wealth from labour. It's the concept of owning for living rather than working for a living. That's why the owning class likes to make jokes like, don't work hard for your money, make your money work hard for you. Another favourite of theirs is, if you can't find a way to make money while you're sleeping, then you're actually going to have to get a job!
There are billionaires that are making hundreds of thousands of dollars per second. Per second. Not per minute. And that's just from their Capital Holdings! Where do you think that money comes from? There was a guy that won the lottery a few months back. He has his money in a low-interest savings account. He's getting $6,000 a day just from the interest! LOL. And unless he spends more than $6,000 a day, he'll be making even more money with every passing minute. If you have to work 40 hours a week, well now you know why. If you want to know why labor-saving technology has introduced working hours, well that's why. Every time you get a blood test, buy toothpaste, wipe your rear end with toilet paper, you have to pay some billionaire for the privilege. And that individual will then pass that privilege onto his children and his children's children. His entire family line from this point never have to work. They can make thousands of dollars a day and live off of other people's labour. Basically, they're living in a world where basic Commodities are free. They can go into any restaurant and get served. They can go into any car dealership and buy a car that other people had to make.
Anyway, worker-owned companies are not capitalists. They are a form of Socialism. A form of collectivism. The company is collectively owned and democratically operated. The workers are doing their own work. They're not capitalizing on other people's labour. And that is more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy because when the wealth is going to the workers they spend that into the economy. That creates more demand. The economy expands. The labour theory of ownership. If they produce $70,000 worth of wealth with their labour, they are now entitled to $70,000 worth of consumption. That's how a free-market works. That's what Adam Smith meant when you talked about free markets and the Invisible Hand. He do that economic democracy was necessary. Under capitalism Market is free for the capitalist owners.
You see, what are the central goals of Economics is to achieve equilibrium. Capitalism is an anti economic system. You can't achieve equilibrium when you have production output expanding many times faster than income. It's just insane. That's the problem with silly religions. And the capitals class has to spend hundreds of millions of dollars annually disseminating Pro capitalist propaganda in order to keep people believing in that silly religion.
Can you imagine if you were a brown-eyed person and some blue-eyed individual came up to you and said that we should have a law where the blue-eyed people get to own most of the capital on the planet and thereby get most of the wealth produced by labour? What would you say to that? You should be entitled to most of the wealth produced by your labour. Not someone else. Pretty smart religion. Because when you control the capital you control everything else by default.
And of course there's a huge amount of corruption under capitalism. That's what happens when you have hierarchical systems of organization that are extremely undemocratic. Corruption is guaranteed. It's almost like saying that the combustion engine isn't responsible for exhaust.
Crony capitalism is just capitalism. And this is why https://youtu.be/L0Sr9lupjNA
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@lobotomizedamericans , Michael Parenti once said that wealth was one of the worst addictions.
Yeah, I stopped reading James's comments a long time ago. I see the first line or two, but as you point out, there's no need to expand the comment because you know everything he's going to say is complete nonsense. And he lies. And he's a disgusting hypocrite. He will criticize someone up and down for something they didn't do, and then, five minutes later, he'll go and do the exact same thing himself! He basically accuses other people of all the things he does. He says that he hates governments but yet he behaves just like the American government. Just lie, doesn't matter if you're caught, doesn't matter what the evidence is, just lie anyway. And always accuse the other side of evils that you do or are planning to do. 😀
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@jamesolivito4374 , morality is a problem for capitalism, not socialism. Socialism is a bottom-up, democratic non-hierarchical system of organization. When workers own and control their own means of production and have equal voting power, corruption is almost impossible. If you were to try to be greedy or dishonest, your fellow workers wouldn't think too kindly of you. And since worker-owned companies are tied to the community, if workers decided to cut safety standards or use harmful ingredients in their products, the community wouldn't look too favourably on them either. Individuals are not going to poison their own environment and the children of their neighbours.
Look at all the Socialist companies in the United States. What does the data show? Not only do you not have to worry about corruption or greed or destruction of the environment, workers are happier, more efficient, more Innovative, there's less than two days of mental illness, workers take fewer sick days, there's less incidence of substance abuse, Etc.
You see, bottom-up systems of organization are not prone to corruption the way top down systems are.
Capitalism guarantees corruption! In fact, people don't do everything they can to compete, then they're more corrupt competitors will end up dominating market shares.
Capitalism is prone to corruption because those are the top have extreme power over those underneath. Capitalism allows the richest members of society to own most of the capital. That gives them massive power over workers and government. Those who own most of the capital get most of the wealth produced by labour. That's why the riches 1% now has almost as much wealth as the poorest 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population.
When workers own and control their own means of production democratically, you have most things being made at home and most of the wealth going to the workers who spend that money into the economy.
When rich people control the Capital, they get most of the wealth produced by labour and most things end up being made in China.
If you're worried about greed and morality, then socialism the ideal system. Capitalism is definitely not the system you want to have. You can't give massive control over the world, the economy and the government to a small Rich minority. Research has shown that a lot of these extremely wealthy capitalists are actually sociopaths. As it turns out, the less empathy a person has the more likely they are to be successful at outcompeting their competitors. You end up with the concentration of sociopaths at the top of the Apex because it's precisely those types of individuals that are mostly attracted to power and wealth.
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It's very simple. Capitalism is economic feudalism. Under this system most of the capital ends up being owned by the richest members of society. So not only do they get most of the wealth produced by labour, they get to make most of the decisions in regards to what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced, how much workers get paid, Etc.
And what is the consequence? Most things are made in China and most people can no longer afford a family on a single income. Before the pandemic there are 40 million Americans depended upon food stamps in order to survive. That's more people than the entire population of Canada. And that's because with every passing day more and more of the GDP ends up going to the owners of capital rather than the actual citizens and workers. That has resulted in the richest 1% owning almost as much wealth as the poorest 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as a poorest half of the American population. The 8 richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population!
However, if we had most of our GDP coming from worker-owned companies and factories, then most things would be produced at home rather than a third world country. Most of the wealth would flow to the workers who would spend that money into the economy. That's why socialism is actually more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy. Labor-saving technology would serve to reduce working hours while increasing prosperity for everyone. That would also make it easier for people to start their own small businesses because the be more demand for coffee, Pizza, beer, trips to the bowling alley, Etc.
For example, there's a socially own bread factory in the United States where the assembly line workers make between 65 and $70,000 a year. That's because they own the product of their labour. How much does a an assembly line worker make at Walmart or Amazon? 20000? Which workers are going to create more demand in the economy? Obviously it's the people making 70,000 a year.
Worker-owned companies are tied to the community. They make workers and communities less dependant upon the government and exploitive of capitalist corporations.. They decentralize power.
And because there's hundreds of thousands of worker-owned companies around the world, because we have data going back almost 100 years, we know exactly how well they compare and measure up to capitalist modes of production. Not only are workers more efficient, more creative, they also have better mental help. There's less incidence of depression, substance abuse, workers take fewer sick days, Etc.
https://youtu.be/-VdbFzwe8fQ
Capitalism is actually an anti economic system. One of the central goals of Economics is to achieve equilibrium. How can you achieve equilibrium when the main goal is to maximize profit by keeping wages as low as possible while getting workers to produce as much as possible? So, literally, the more successful the capitalist company is, the less purchasing power workers have! One of the reasons why there's so much debt. It should be obvious that it's not viable to have an economic system where production output increases at a faster rate than income. Especially when jobs are tied to consumption. And of course pumping credit into the system will keep people consuming temporarily, but ultimately the interest attached will serve to reduce purchasing power even further in the future. People call that economics?
Economics comes from the word economy, the absence of waste. But capitalism is one of the most wasteful and destructive systems ever devised. Ninety-nine percent of the materials we extract from nature for production end up in the landfill after only six months! 99%! We should have been able to cut working hours and half a long time ago. But because capitalism drives wages down work, people remain depended upon a 40 Hour Work Week even though it's no longer necessary to work that long to produce all of the goods and services required by Society. That's also why planned obsolescence isn't necessary feature of the capitalist system, along with fractional Reserve banking.
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@bluessoul1286 , what does any of that have to do with the type of socialism that Richard Wolff is talking about? What does that have to do with the fact that worker-owned companies and factories are better for workers?
And do you have any idea what the United States was like before the labour movement? Back in the days of Rockefeller, JPMorgan, Carnegie, Etc? It was hell on Earth! You had nine-year-old children working 17 hours a day, 7 days a week! Laborers were often worked to death. Thousands of people would die everyday because there were no consumer safety standards, no labour laws, Etc. Do you have any idea how many people had to fight and die in order to achieve the eight-hour day, the five-day work week?
"In fact, we did practice something close to a pure capitalism in 1893. The result was economic depression and widespread unemployment, nine-year-old children working fourteen-hour days, typhoid and cholera epidemics in Philadelphia and other eastern cities, malnutrition and tuberculosis, and contaminated water and food supplies for the poor.
We had uninhibited environmental devastation and horrible work conditions, no pension programs or minimum wage, no occupational or consumer safety regulations, no prohibitions against child labor, and no Social Security, collective bargaining, or industrial unionism. We had unrestrained monopolies and trusts – and enormously high profits.
Conditions in the United States in 1893 were not unlike what they are today through much of the Third World. But for the capitalists of that era, these dismal conditions were not seen as evidence of the system's failure. For them, capitalism in the good old days was working quite well. Success was measured not by the quality of food, drinking water, housing, schools, transportation, and health care, but by the rate of capital accumulation.
The function of capitalism then and now has been to invest capital in order to accumulate more capital, and in that sense the system has performed superbly, for those who own and control it.
Today, the conservative goal is the Third Worldization of America, to reduce the U.S. working populace to a Third World condition, having people work harder and harder for less and less. This includes a return to the "free market,” free of environmental regulations, free of consumer protections, minimum wages, occupational safety, and labor unions, a market crowded with underemployed labor, so better to depress wages and widen profit margins.
Conservatives also seek the abolition of human services and other forms of public assistance that give people some buffer against free-market forces. Underemployment is a necessary condition for Third Worldization. Alan Budd, professor of economics at the London Business School candidly observed (Observer, June 21, 1992) that the Thatcher government's cuts in public spending were a cover to bash workers: ”Raising unemployment was a very desirable way of reducing the strength of the working classes. What was engineered was a crisis in capitalism, which recreated a reserve army of labor, and has allowed the capitalists to make high profits ever since.” With underemployment and poverty come the return of turbeculosis, homelessness, and hunger, and a sharp increase in the number of people who work at nonunion, low-paying, dead-end poverty-level jobs.
The essence of capitalism, its raison d'être, is not to build democracy, or help working people, or save the environment, or build homes for the homeless. Its goal is to convert nature into commodities and commodities into capital, to invest and accumulate, transmuting every part of the world into its own image for its own realization."
~ Michael Parenti
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@bluessoul1286 of course it works! We know it works because there's hundreds of thousands of worker-owned companies all over the world. There's a region in Europe where 44% of the GDP comes from worker-owned company. Of course it would be possible to have an economy where most of the goods and services are produced by democratic workplaces.
For you to be comparing First World countries, countries such as Canada, United States, comparing those countries to third world countries or countries with extremely different cultures such as China or Venezuela, that's simply doesn't make any sense. Their culture is different and their governments are structured differently. Most of the problems that happened in those countries were the results of economic imperialism or Invasion from countries such as the United States and Britain. Or, they were failures as a result of the way the government was structured. It doesn't matter whether you're dealing with capitalism or socialism. If you have unaccountable dictatorships and remove checks and balances in the government, of course there's going to be problems. But it's a moot point because Richard Wolff is not talking about State socialism. There are two main types of socialism. You can have indirect ownership through the government, just like you can have representative democracy which is indirect, or you can have direct ownership by communities and workers. State socialism came about at a much later date in history.
If most of the GDP comes from worker-owned companies, then most of the wealth would be going to the workers. That's more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy because when workers have money they spend it. Also, that would create a situation where most things will be made in the home country rather than someplace like China.
You're not making any argument for why it wouldn't work. You're just talking about other countries, cultures. Also, thanks to Science and labor-saving Technology, the world we live in today is very different than 150 years ago.
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@danbenson7587 , ▪︎ Worldwide, cooperatives represent well over $3 trillion in turnover, 12.6 million in employment, and over a billion people in total membership.
▪︎ In the United States the cooperative sector represents over $500 billion in revenues and employs about two million people
Study number 1:
Virginie Perotin's research** which looked at two decades worth of international data, shows that worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses.
It finds that worker co-operatives represent a serious business alternative and bring significant benefits to their employees and to the economy. There are thousands of worker-run businesses in Europe, employing several hundred thousand people in a broad range of industries, from traditional manufacturing to the creative and high-tech industries.
Because worker co-operatives are owned and run by them, employees in worker-owned co-operatives have far more say in the business, from day-to-day concerns through to major strategic issues.
The largest study comparing the productivity of worker co-operatives with that of conventional businesses finds that in several industries, conventional companies would produce more with their current levels of employment and capital if they behaved like employee-owned firms.
When market conditions change worker cooperatives review wages first and keep employment more stable. In a downturn worker co-operatives drop wages rather than reducing their workforce. When business picks up they are ready to
respond and can make up for lost pay because employees enjoy a share of profit."
The main findings from the analysis and review are:
• Worker co-operatives are larger than conventional businesses and not necessarily less capital intensive.
• Worker co-operatives survive at least as long as other businesses and have more stable employment.
• Worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses, with staff working “better and smarter” and production organised more efficiently.
• Worker co-operatives retain a larger share of their profits than other business models.
• Executive and non-executive pay differentials are much narrower in worker co-operatives than other firms.
** "Virginie Pérotin is Professor of Economics at Leeds University Business School and specialises in the effects of firm ownership and governance on performance, worker co-operatives, employee ownership and profit sharing. Previous academic and research roles include positions at the International Labour Office, the London School of Economics and the Centre d’Etude des Revenus et des Coûts (CERC) in the French Prime Minister’s Office in Paris. Professor Pérotin has also acted as a consultant to the European Commission, World Bank and OECD on issues of profit-sharing, employee ownership and employee involvement schemes."
▪ Study number 2:
This study by The Democracy Collaborative found that in the US, worker cooperatives can increase worker incomes by 70-80%, and that they can grow 2% faster a year than other businesses. This data also showed that worker coops have 9-19% greater levels of productivity, 45% lower turnover rates, and are 30% less likely to fail in the first few years of operation!
▪ Study number 3:
This study of worker cooperatives in Italy, the UK, and France found “positive” relationships with productivity. It also found that worker cooperatives do not become less productive as they get larger. One 1995 study of worker cooperatives in the timber industry in Washington, USA found that “co-ops are more efficient than the principal conventional firms by between 6 and 14 percent”.
▪ Study number 4:
An in-depth study of the Mondragon Corporation released today (5 April 2017) reveals how a large global business thrives because it’s owned by its workers, caps the gap between the highest and lowest paid, and has built an ecosystem around itself.
Now you compare that with capitalist Enterprises where where the pay disparity between the top and the bottom is as high as 312 times!
CEOs and shareholders do not Work 312 times harder then the actual workers themselves. These disparities only exist in dictatorial capitalist companies where workers have no control. And that's why in Flint Michigan the workers at the Ford Motor Company plant we're forced to poison their own water supply. It's why they had no choice when production was moved offshore. Those kind of problems do not exist or happen in workplace democracies. /business/2018/aug/16/ceo-versus-worker-wage-american-companies-pay-gap-study-2018
▪ Study number 5: The Whitehall study found that workers at the bottom of the social ladder had greater concentrations of stress hormones than their counterparts in higher managerial positions.
In contrast, a survey carried out by The Anxiety Disorder Association of America, in 2006, found that workers were far less stressed and anxious when they had more of a say over their own work.
adaa.org/workplace-stress-anxiety-disorders-survey.
>>> a few examples regarding Forms of social production:
• producer cooperatives.
A producer Co-operative is owned collectively and equally by the people who work in it, and is usually governed according to "one person, one vote."
Cooperatives are one of the most common forms of nonprofit Enterprises. There are hundreds of thousands of cooperatives in the world; the United Nations estimates that half the world's population are members or customers of a Cooperative. Examples of successful producer cooperatives include Fonterra (New Zealand's largest Dairy producer), the ReWe Group (a major tourism company in Germany), Huawei (a giant Chinese electronics manufacturer, 99% owned by its workers), and Japan's Farm sector where over 90% of the Farmers belong to cooperatives). Strong networks of producer cooperatives are the dominant economic structure in Spain's Mondragon region and Italy's Emilia-Romagna region.
• Consumer Cooperatives.
A consumer Cooperative is owned collectively and equally by the people who buy its products, and is usually governed according to "one person, one vote."
Many retail cooperatives are formed to help consumers obtain lower prices and challenge the market power of private retailers. In Denmark over one-third of all retail sales are conducted through cooperatives. The E.Leclerc Cooperative operates over 500 supermarkets in France. Canada's Mountain Equipment Co-op runs the country's largest retail Network for outdoor recreation products.
• Recovered companies.
Workers in a bankrupt company effectively expropriate the Enterprise and attempt to keep it in business.
In the years after the 2001 financial crisis in Argentina, over 200 bankrupt factories were taken over by their workers, who continue to operate them (with some government support for refinancing). 2013 law in Bolivia gives workers the explicit legal authority to take over filled firms.
• Community Trusts.
A Community Trust is a non-profit Corporation, usually exempt from normal business taxes, created to purchase and development land, housing, and other Community Asset.
There are over 250 Community Land Trust operating in the US, with the explicit mission to undertake affordable housing develop, Environmental Conservation, and local job creation on lands that they own. Governance is based on a shared model that includes lessees and elected local representatives.
• Benefit corporations.
A benefit Corporation is owned by private shareholders, but obliged by its Charter to pursue social and environmental goals in addition to profit.
"B Lab" is an association which publishes an annual Global ranking of successful benefit corporations. Recent recognized firms include Echele! a tu casa (a benefit corporation based in Mexico City which develops low-cost housing for residents of poor neighborhoods), and Give Something Back (a major office supply company in California with a Community Development mandate).
• Community and nonprofit Enterprises.
Jobs in especially hard-hit regions and communities can be created by nonprofit Community Development agencies, drawing on local resources including training, housing and alternative Finance.
Community Economic Development (CED) is an "up by the bootstraps" effort to mobilize local resources that would otherwise idle, providing local Services, developing infrastructure, and providing unemployed people with job experience and training. Decentralized CED initiatives can be important in many developing economies, and in poor or remote regions of developed countries. Some entire communities have been founded and sustained on Cooperative principles in many countries.
There's also many Forms of socialized Finance. Too many to list.
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@Sumoniggro , and, on top of that, socialist companies are actually more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy. Capitalist companies destroy free markets because they violate the basic principles of economics. For example, one of the central goals of Economics is to achieve equilibrium. How can capitalist companies achieve equilibrium when their goal is to maximize profit? How is profit-maximizing? By getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible. That creates a situation where the workers will never be able to afford all of that which they produce. If you have 90% of the wealth going to the owners of capital, the richest 1%, then the workers are only going to be able to afford 10% of what they produce. Where does the purchasing power come from to maintain jobs and the economy through consumption? As soon as consumption slows down, people get laid off. People that get laid off can't consume. That results in more people being laid off. Literally, the more successful a capitals company is at maximizing profit the less purchasing power workers have!
So, anyone who supports capitalism either doesn't understand economics or is a liar. 😀 capitalism is a religion. It's an anti economic system.
In order to keep the system running, any increases in profit have to be offset with increased access to credit. Otherwise the economy will contract. Why do you think it is there so much debt?
And why do you think it is that working hours don't decrease under capitalism? Because workers do not own the product of their labour! Again, how can you achieve equilibrium if workers don't own the product of their labour? 😀
Do you have any how much productivity has increased over the last 50 years? So why are we still working a 40-hour work week? Because it doesn't matter how much workers produce because under capitalism they're basically nothing more than human livestock. If you you steroids in order to double the milk production of a cow, the cow doesn't get to work half as many hours because the north belongs to the farmer.
What were you saying about socialist not understanding economics? Care to elaborate? 😀
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He's pretty clear about what he wants. He wants to make it easier for workers to get access to Capital so they have to be as dependent upon capitalist corporations for jobs and goods and services. That will create competition for the capitalists which will increase wages while keeping prices low.
Doesn't want every company to be a cooperative. He points out that if most of our GDP were coming from worker owned companies then instead of having most of the wealth going to a small Rich minority it would be going to the workers who would in turn spend that money into the economy which would create more demand. Trickle up economics, if you will. That will make it easier for people to start their own small businesses. Coffee shops, Pizza shops, whatever. The problem with having too many capitalist companies is that their goal of maximizing profit causes a saturation of the market while decreasing the purchasing power of workers. Profits are maximized by keeping wages as low as possible while getting workers to produce as much as possible. But obviously that creates a situation where workers cannot afford all of that which they produce. And once consumption starts to slow, people get laid off and can't consume. It's a domino effect, a downward spiral. That's why there's so much debt. When you have a situation where workers can't afford the goods and services they produce, the only alternative is to borrow more and more money from the future. Now we have to borrow so much from the future there's no longer enough hard currency to cover it. So that's why we have fractional Reserve banking.
You see, one of the central goals of Economics is to achieve equilibrium between Supply and demand. But the more successful capitalist company is at maximizing profit, the less purchasing power workers have. That's why capitalism actually destroys the markets. And why people still have to work a 40-hour work week in order to survive even though productivity levels have more than tripled since 1950. You see, it doesn't matter how much output a worker produces. Everything he produces belongs to someone else. It's like if you were to double the output of a cow, all that milk belongs to the farmer. The worker is paid as little as possible, that makes him dependent upon a 40-hour work week even though we should only be working about 20 hours a week by now.
Socialism is more conducive to free markets because workers get the full value of their labor, and that means there's a balance between what is produced and what they can afford to buy.
Richard wolf doesn't want to force people to pay taxes so that healthcare, education, and all of those other programs are paid for. He wants to leave that up to the communities. When most of the GDP is coming from worker-owned companies, then the workers can decide how much their income they want to put towards such things. For example, there's a Cooperative in Spain we're 100,000 workers own their own hospital, high-tech Research Laboratories, numerous types of factories, etc. Those workers don't have to worry about being ripped off by landlords because the workers agreed use their tax Dollar in order to provide as much social housing as needed. That doesn't mean that housing is free. It just means that when you pay your rent at the end of the month, you're just paying for the cost of the building, the cost of the maintenance, etc. Not one penny is going to some landlord. You don't have to worry about working three out of four weeks for free just to cover your. Rent. You get to put that money into your pocket which you can use then to save up to buy your own home instead of paying for the landlords lifestyle, his car, his children, his home, etc.
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@ExPwner
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money.
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create working class owning class dichotomy we're a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet and get most of the wealth.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the rich is 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
▪ James Adams on the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access healthcare, education, etc.
▪ Here's an example of your reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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@ExPwner , people shouldn't have to work any more than 20 hours a week by now considering that productivity levels have more than tripled since 1950. But the problem with capitalism is that everything produced by workers belongs to someone else! So it doesn't matter if the cow produces three times the amount of milk. It all belongs to the farmer.
You have absolutely no understanding of how economies work. You don't understand that our economy is the sum total of all our labor. And then you lie about having a master's degree in accounting while making the most absurd comments. For example,
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create working class owning class dichotomy we're a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet and get most of the wealth.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the rich is 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
▪ James Adams on the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access healthcare, education, etc.
▪ Here's an example of your reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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@ExPwner , you have no idea what you're talking about. All a person has to do is look at your comments to know that you've got no understanding of economics or political science.
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create working class owning class dichotomy we're a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet and get most of the wealth.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the rich is 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
▪ James Adams on the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access healthcare, education, etc.
▪ Here's an example of your reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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@ExPwner , you see, you still can't read. Even when I explain it to you. I said oh well comes from labor because without it capital is dead. What does that mean? That means all wealth comes from mixing labor with capital. Where else does it come from? LOL you disagree? Do you think a company such as Walmart or Amazon would be able to exist without labor? You really have no idea how a low functioning you are. Perfect example of the Kruger effect.
I had to update your quote list:
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now.
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now.
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money.
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create working class owning class dichotomy we're a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet and get most of the wealth.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the rich is 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
▪ James Adams on the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access healthcare, education, etc.
▪ Here's an example of your reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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@ExPwner , you have no idea what you're talking about. Capitalism makes people poorer. Why do you think it is that most individuals can't afford a family on a single income? The richest 1% in the USA now has almost as much wealth as the poorest 91%.
Concentration of ownership increases under capitalism constantly. Every time there's an economic downturn you have bigger companies buying up the smaller companies. As concentration of ownership increases, the lack of competition allows them to increase their prices. That's one of the factors that causes inflation under capitalism.
Another thing that drives inflation is the fact that workers do not get enough wealth to actually buy all the goods and services they put into circulation. If 90% of the GDP go to the owners of capital, then the workers are only going to be able to afford 10% of that which they produce. The only way to stop the economy from Contracting due to consumption rate slowing down is to pump credit into the system. You have to borrow more and more from the future. The only problem with continuously raising the debt ceiling is that now we no longer have enough hard currency to cover all of that debt. But the capitalist class was able to figure out the solution to that conundrum by printing money into existence. Now they just print as many IOUs as necessary. 😀
The goal of capitalism is to maximize profit. Profit is maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible. The more successful the capitalist company is at maximizing profit, the less purchasing power workers have while simultaneously having more access to goods and services that need to be consumed in order to stop the economy from contracting.
You claim to have a master's degree in accounting. But it couldn't be more obvious that you have an even taken economics 101.
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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Stop spamming! You're the troll. Stop being such a hypocrite. Look at all the trolling you've done on this page so far. Get the gene Epstein Richard wolf debate. You post more personal messages directed at people rather than addressing the actual debate.
And then you spam your utter nonsense.
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create working class owning class dichotomy we're a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet and get most of the wealth.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the rich is 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
▪ James Adams on the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access healthcare, education, etc.
▪ Here's an example of your reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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@ExPwner , yeah, I sure did.
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now.
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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@chucklee9291 , of course collectivism works. There are hundreds of thousands of worker-owned companies in the United States and around the world. Statistically speaking, worker-owned companies are more efficient, more durable, they're better for workers, workers are more creative, workers have less incidence of mental illness, they take fewer sick days, Etc.
For example a study by The Democracy Collaborative found that in the US, worker cooperatives can increase worker incomes by 70-80%, and that they can grow 2% faster a year than other businesses. This data also showed that worker coops have 9-19% greater levels of productivity, 45% lower turnover rates, and are 30% less likely to fail in the first few years of operation!
So when you say that collectivism doesn't work, that statement is both a- historical and empirically false.
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@chucklee9291 , you're not free to negotiate your wage. When it comes to First World countries, Americans are number one when it comes to low-wage labour. Why is that? Because under capitalism you have very little negotiating power. That's why so many people fought and died to achieve the right to unionize. Also, you're missing the point. You don't own the product of your labour everything you produce belongs to someone else. That's why labor-saving technology led to the Advent of the billionaire class rather than reducing working hours while increasing prosperity for everyone. That's the point. You see, under socialism you actually own the product of your labour. So if a machine replaces 500 people, you celebrate because you now have 500 people to share in the remaining workload. Under socialism labor-saving technology and capital benefit those who work the hardest. Under capitalism labor-saving technology and capital benefits the owning class at the expense of the workers. That's why socialist companies are much better for workers and communities and markets. When workers get the full value of their labour they have more purchasing power in that creates greater demand. That makes it easier for a person to start their own small business. And keep in mind when I say start a business, I don't mean a capitalist business. You don't need capitalism in order to have a business. You see, that's one of the greatest propaganda accomplishments of all times, convincing people that capitalism is equated with freedom and ability to operate a business. But that's not true. If you write a book and you fill it in the market, that's not capitalism. If you grow potatoes in your garden and sell them in the market, that is not capitalism. Merely selling the product of your labour is not capitalism. Capitalism is about the maximization of capital accumulation for the purpose of extracting wealth from labour and resources. Basically, living off of other people's labour. Or, you like to put it the way the capitalist do, not working hard for your money but making your money work hard for you. 😀
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@ExPwner ,FEE? That's like quoting the ministry of Truth. Infowars has more credibility.
Have you noticed that all of your comments are in line with the talking points disseminated by prageru? Is that a coincidence? Maybe that's where you got your master's degree, yes?
▪ James Adams:
" I am very intelligent. I have a master's degree in accounting."
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism is not a two class system! Many workers own stock, dumass!"
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism is a bottom-up system because the economy is not centrally planned."
▪ James Adams:
"service-sector jobs that replaced industrial jobs (lost as a consequence of NAFTA) are actually higher-paying and better for workers"
▪ James Adams:
" the social Mobility index doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility."
▪ James Adams:
"There is no such thing as worker exploitation because that Marxist nonsense was refuted by Bohm Bawerk.
Get an education!"
▪ James Adams:
"Business is not robbing the poor. The state is."
▪ James Adams:
"Amazon workers are not getting low wages either, dumbass."
▪ James Adams:
"profits are not extracted from labour."
▪ James Adams:
"Imperialism has nothing to do with capitalism."
▪ James Adams:
"There is no theft of labor value. Workers always get paid the "full value of their labor because that value is what they exchange for (subjective value) not some made up nonsense. Ponder that for a while."
▪ James Adams:
" capitalism does not cause extreme inequality. And you have no evidence that it does!"
Yeah, there's no extreme difference between the poor and the rich. no evidence..😀 not at all! Only that the two richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. The richest 1% has almost as much wealth as the poorest 91% of the American population. Simultaneously, going back at least as far as 2015, 40 million Americans use food stamps in order to get enough to eat. That's more people than the entire population of Canada! No, no extreme inequality there. 😀 you're mr. perspicacity incarnate.
▪ James Adams:
"There is no such thing as worker exploitation because that Marxist nonsense was refuted by Bohm Bawerk.
Get an education!"
▪ Q: How do you create wealth in the economy without labour?
James Adams:
"There are many ways to create wealth without labour:
1. Wealth is in knowledge.
2. Wealth is created through saving time on something.
3. Wealth is created through exchange when one person values the thing they want more than the thing they give up.
4. Apples.
5. Wine."
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@ExPwner , you're still not making an argument. You can't support your claims so instead you go around trolling? How can you do that and then get angry at lobotomized? You don't see him engaging in such behavior. This is what you do all the time and then you lie accusing other people of doing it! What's wrong with you? Why do you need to be such a liar and a hypocrite? You get angry at me just because you can't support your claims?
Do at least now acknowledge that all wealth comes from mixing labor with capital? Do you accept the fact that without labor Capital would be dead? Yes, of course there's natural gifts from nature such as apples, but do you now accept that you cannot have a capitalist company such as Walmart or Amazon without labor? Yes or no?
The things you say simply don't make any sense.
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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@ExPwner , can't you get anything right? How can your comprehension abilities be so poor?
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now.
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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@donrastar1579 , well maybe it would be easier for you to comprehend what I'm saying if I provide you with dictionary and encyclopedia references?
What is socialism?
• "Socialism is a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production. It includes the political theories and movements associated with such systems. Social ownership can be public, collective, cooperative, or of equity."
~ O'Hara, Phillip (2003). Encyclopedia of Political Economy, Volume 2. Routledge. p. 71. ISBN 978-0-415-24187-8. In order of increasing decentralisation (at least) three forms of socialised ownership can be distinguished: state-owned firms, employee-owned (or socially) owned firms, and citizen ownership of equity.
~ ~ Merriam-Webster Dictionary
~ ~ Durlauf, Steven N.; E. Blume, Lawrence. "socialism". DICTIONARY OF ECONOMICS. Palgrave Macmillan 2013.
~ ~ Gregory, Paul R.; Stuart, Robert C. (2003). Comparing Economic Systems in the Twenty-First Century. Socialism: "It is an economic system that combines social ownership of capital with market allocation of capital."
What is the difference between a capitalist company & a socialist company?
1. Socialist companies are cooperatively owned.
Capitalist companies are privately owned.
2. At socialist companies there is no employee-employer dynamic.
The workers are their own bosses. They all get to decide what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced, etc.
3. At socialist companies workers own the product of their labour.
At capitalist companies workers do not own the product of their labour, everything they produce belongs to someone else.
4. Organization is either bottom up or horizontal.
Capitalism is a hierarchical, top-down system of organization.
5. Socialist companies are democratic. That means that the participants in economic institutions (e.g. factories, stores and universities) decide on the policy of the institution. economic democracy.
Capitalist companies are extremely undemocratic; you do what you're told, or else! And most things end up being made in countries such as China.
6. The workers are doing their own work. They're not capitalizing on other people's labour for profit.
7. Equality: at socialist companies everyone is equal in terms of voting power. One share equals one vote.
At a capitalist company workers don't have any voting power at all. That's why during the labour movement so many people fought and died for the right to unionize.
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@ExPwner , yes, you're a master at debate and debunking. 😀
▪ James Adams:
" I am very intelligent. I have a master's degree in accounting."
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism is not a two class system! Many workers own stock, dumass!"
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism is a bottom-up system because the economy is not centrally planned."
▪ James Adams:
"service-sector jobs that replaced industrial jobs (lost as a consequence of NAFTA) are actually higher-paying and better for workers"
▪ James Adams:
" the social Mobility index doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility."
▪ James Adams:
"There is no such thing as worker exploitation because that Marxist nonsense was refuted by Bohm Bawerk.
Get an education!"
▪ James Adams:
"Business is not robbing the poor. The state is."
▪ James Adams:
"Amazon workers are not getting low wages either, dumbass."
▪ James Adams:
"profits are not extracted from labour."
▪ James Adams:
"Imperialism has nothing to do with capitalism."
▪ James Adams:
"There is no theft of labor value. Workers always get paid the "full value of their labor because that value is what they exchange for (subjective value) not some made up nonsense. Ponder that for a while."
▪ James Adams:
" capitalism does not cause extreme inequality. And you have no evidence that it does!"
Yeah, there's no extreme difference between the poor and the rich. no evidence..😀 not at all! Only that the two richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. The richest 1% has almost as much wealth as the poorest 91% of the American population. Simultaneously, going back at least as far as 2015, 40 million Americans use food stamps in order to get enough to eat. That's more people than the entire population of Canada! No, no extreme inequality there. 😀 you're mr. perspicacity incarnate.
▪ James Adams:
"There is no such thing as worker exploitation because that Marxist nonsense was refuted by Bohm Bawerk.
Get an education!"
▪ Q: How do you create wealth in the economy without labour?
James Adams:
"There are many ways to create wealth without labour:
1. Wealth is in knowledge.
2. Wealth is created through saving time on something.
3. Wealth is created through exchange when one person values the thing they want more than the thing they give up.
4. Apples.
5. Wine."
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@ExPwner , wow, your comprehension abilities must be non-existent.
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now.
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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@donrastar1579 , capitalism is not the only system that utilizes capital and Markets. That's not my opinion, that's a basic fact.
all wealth comes from mixing labor with capital. If you write a book and you sell it in the market, that is not capitalism. If you grow vegetables in your garden and you sell them in the market, that is not capitalism. Capitalism does not predate feudalism by thousands of years. Capitalism is only about 250 to 300 years of age. It was made possible by the enclosure movement.
Before you can evaluate which system is better, Socialism or capitalism, you have to first be able to differentiate between the two.
• (Beaud 2001: 41) , History of Capitalism: 1500-1980
• capitalism ( history/analysis) by Paul Bowles .
• O'Hara, Phillip (September 2000). Encyclopedia of Political Economy, Volume2. Routledge. .
▪︎ Buchanan, Alan E. (1985). Ethics, Efficiency and the Market. Oxford University Press US. pp. 104–105.
▪︎ Gregory, Paul R.; Stuart, Robert C. (2003). Comparing Economic Systems in the Twenty-First Century.
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@ExPwner , no, you're the one that makes up their own reality. In this day and age no one should have to work 40 hours a week. We shouldn't even need to work 20 hours a week. Productivity levels have more than tripled since night 1950 but we still have a 40-hour work week and inflation has risen at a much greater Pace than wages.
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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@ExPwner , no, I only put you down because you're an uneducated fool. You can't even get that right. You're also a liar and a hypocrite. And you know it. How does that make you feel? Your relationships must be very deep and meaningful.
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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Workers don't all get paid the same at socialist companies. People get paid according to their contribution. The ratio between the highest and lowest paid worker usually no more than 7 to 1. That's because regardless of your education, how talented you are, how hard you work, how fast you work, it's generally not possible for a person to convert their labour energy into 7 times more wealth then someone else, even a janitor! Yes, of course the janitor is going to produce less value compared to Someone Like An engineer. But the most important thing is that the janitor gets one hundred percent labour value. At a capitals company workers cannot get 100% of their labour value. They're lucky if they get 5 or 10%.
You see, capitalism is about owning for living. That's why people can accumulate billions of dollars. Obviously it's not possible for a person to convert their labour energy into that much wealth. Even if you could save $200,000 a year, it would take you no less than 5000 years to accumulate 1 billion dollars. Where do you think that money comes from? It has to come from labour. Anytime you have someone who extract more than what they produce, then it has to come at the expense of someone else. Or put another way, anytime you have someone who ends up with a dollar that they didn't work for, somewhere else you have someone who work for dollars if they don't get.
Why do you think it is we still have to work 40 hours a week even though labor-saving technology by more than half? It's because just about everything produced by workers belongs to someone else. Just like if you give a dairy cow bovine growth hormone in order to double milk production, the cow doesn't end up with twice the amount of Milk. The Cow doesn't get to work half as many hours. The cow doesn't end up with twice the amount of wealth. It All Belongs to the farmer. That's why we still have to work 40 hours a week and why the two richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. The richest 1% has almost as much wealth as the poorest 91% of the American population. And the eight bridges people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population.
Not only do the owners of capital get most of the wealth, they also get to make most of the decisions and regards to what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced, how much workers get paid, Etc. Economic feudalism. That's why most things are made in China and why wages are so low.
Anyway, here is a socially owned bread factory and Robotics Factory in the United States. https://youtu.be/-VdbFzwe8fQ like I said, there's hundreds of thousands I'm socially owned factories and companies around the world. There is a region in Europe where 44% of the GDP come from worker-owned companies. Almost 60% of United States gets electricity from worker-owned Electrical Cooperatives.
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@LL-wc4wn , my pleasure.
Here's another video that discusses the popularity, efficiency and durability of worker-owned companies in the United States compared to capitalist companies.
https://youtu.be/QG0FhpGdFwc
Also, there is no shortage of studies on worker cooperatives. These Studies have shown that workers are happier, more efficient, more creative, more productive, take fewer sick days, have less incidence of substance abuse, mental illness, depression, suicide, Etc.
Did you know that the United States is number one in the world for mental illness?
▪ USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people. ~
(Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005 Jun;62(6):617-27.)
▪ Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime. ~
cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact_sheet
The Whitehall study found that workers at the bottom of the social ladder had greater concentrations of stress hormones than their counterparts in higher managerial positions.
"The Whitehall Study | Unhealthy Work"
In contrast, a survey carried out by The Anxiety Disorder Association of America, in 2006, found that workers were far less stressed and anxious when they had more of a say over their own work.
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@ExPwner , no, workers don't get paid the full value of their labour when they work at capitalist companies. The less workers get paid, the more profit capitalist companies make.
Your statement doesn't make any sense. If a capitalist company can get away with paying workers a dollar a day, then, according to you, the workers are getting the full value of their labour. 😀 the point that Richard Wolff is making is that when the workers own the company then they get all of the wealth that the company produces. Not just a portion of it.
Your comments never make any sense. You can't even formulate an argument. I guess that's why your constantly plagiarizing me and creating Straw Men.
On one end you're trying to claim that capitalist companies are better for workers. But on the other end, you point out that workers have to accept whatever the boss is willing to pay. 😀 but that's one of the main arguments for worker-owned companies. The workers are their own boss. They don't have a capitalist boss dictating how much they get paid, what they have to wear, how hard they have to work, what they have to produce, when they have to produce it, Etc.
You still don't understand the argument? You, by far, are the slowest person I've ever talked to. You think that after two years that you would finally figure out what the argument is about and be able to make a counter argument.
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@LL-wc4wn , everybody being equally wealthy? What are you talkin about? People don't all get paid the same in a socialist economy. People get paid according to their contribution. There's hundreds of thousands of socialist companies in the United States and around the world. People don't get paid the same. The disparity between the highest and and lowest paid workers generally is no greater than 7 to 1. And that's because no one is capitalizing on anyone else's labour. You see, that's the difference between socialism and capitalism. Under socialism people are doing their own work. They have to work for their wealth. But capitalism is about capitalizing on other people's labour. That's why you can have one person accumulating billions of dollars. But when people actually are only entitled to that which they work for. You can accumulate a billion dollars. That's because it's impossible for a person to convert their labour energy into that much wealth. Even if you could save $200,000 a year after expenses, it would take you no less than five thousand years to accumulate 1 billion dollars. You see, anytime you have someone extracting more than what they contribute, it has to come at the expense of someone else. That's why there's so many poor people under capitalism. That's why the richest 1% now have almost as much wealth as the poorest 91% of the American population. But you don't have that problem under socialism because people are only entitled to that which they work for. So if you look at those socialist companies in the United States, you will see that people earn more money because they are either more talented, work faster, or are more skilled. The thing is that get to keep 100% of the wealth that your labour produces because no one else is capitalizing on your labour for profit. That's why an assembly line worker can make $70,000 a year at a socialist bread factory but only about 20,000 a year at a company such as Walmart or Amazon
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@LL-wc4wn , and no, socialist company is not capital. A capitalist company is privately owned and utilizes wage labour for profit. You have an employer-employee dynamic. Master-servant, if you will. But a socialist company is collectively owned by the workers directly. Not a stock option. Each worker controls one share. They cannot control more than one share. And the workers are doing their own work. They're not capitalizing on other people's labour for profit.
An economy is capitalist when most of the GDP is coming from privately-owned companies that utilize wage labour for profit. If most of the GDP is coming from worker-owned companies, then the economy is socialist.
The argument is that socialism is better for workers, communities and the economy. You don't have to worry about bosses blackmailing workers to work in unsafe working conditions. You don't have to worry about them blackmailing workers to pollute the environment. You don't have to worry about the boss moving production to a different country. You don't have to worry about nepotism or corruption.
And when the wealth goes to the workers, the workers spend that money into the economy. The economy expands. There's more demand for things such as Pizza, beer, trips to the bowling alley, Etc. But when most of the wealth ends up going to billionaires, that money gets spent on things such as going to space, buying politicians, buying lobbyists, buying lawyers, buying accountants, and buying more capital which results in the purchasing power of workers being reduced even further. If you have to pay Bill Gates earn extra $10 every time you get a blood test or utilize something like electricity, that's 10 less dollars you have to spend in the economy buying goods and services from other workers. That causes the economy to contract.
You see, one of the central goals of Economics is to achieve equilibrium. Therefore there has to be a balance between production output and income. Jobs are tied to consumption. If consumption slows, people get laid off and can't consume. Then the competition between unemployed people drives the wages down even further while increasing production output. That creates an even greater disparity.
You see, the goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by keeping wages as low as possible. So the more successful a capital company is, the less purchasing power workers have.
But when workers own their own factories and businesses, you don't have that problem because the income of the workers is commensurate to the amount of value they produce with their labour.
And that's why socialism is more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy. The more successful capitalist companies are, the more they destroy the economy.
Competition tends towards monopoly. Owners accrue capital at the top but extract it from labour at the bottom. Large enterprises enter, disrupt, and even decimate communities, often leaving workers holding the bag, worse off than they were before.
Here's an example of a socially owned bread factory and Robotics company in the United States. https://youtu.be/-VdbFzwe8fQ
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@LL-wc4wn , you are asking me what happens to people? I'm not sure what you're talking about. Your business is yours. Just because certain workers collectively own their own companies and factories, that doesn't preclude you from doing what you want with your business. Actually, when you increase the Cooperative sector in the economy, that makes it easier for people to start their own private businesses because there's more demand. Just like when so many companies were unionized in the United States there was a surge of growth because workers had so much more money to buy stuff with. You had people opening up coffee shops, restaurants, inventing things such as the hula hoop and the Rubik's Cube, etc.
Second, you need to understand that merely selling the product of one's labour is not capitalism. If you write a book and you sell it in the market, that is not capitalism. If you grow vegetables in your garden and you sell them in the market, that is not capitalism. That's why cooperatives are not capitalist. There are multimillion-dollar cooperatives that sell everything from robots to Ocean Spray cranberry juice. Did you know Ocean Spray is a cooperative? Anyway, the point is, the workers are doing their own work. They're not capitalizing on other people's labour. So if you get together with your friends and family and make a multimillion-dollar company, that's not capitalism. Not unless you're making your grandmother do all or most of the work while keeping a portion of the wealth that her labour produces. 😀
Yes, if you your family creates a multimillion-dollar company, you could convert it into a capitalist company because there's no shortage of poor desperate over-educated workers that will work for low wages. So technically speaking, you and your family members could just sit at home and hire other people to do the work while paying the workers as little as possible. Then you would have a capitalist company. Actually, funny that you mention it, there's a lot of capitalist companies that started out that way. There's this one guy here in Canada that gave half of his company back to the workers because he feels so guilty. A capitalist with a conscience. :-) https://youtu.be/35epDjB_7WE
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@LL-wc4wn , well then maybe the maker of the video was mistaken about Ocean Spray. But that does not negate the fact that there's hundreds of thousands of worker-owned companies in the United States and around the world. Like this. https://youtu.be/-VdbFzwe8fQ
And like this https://youtu.be/wBJADlN2Bic
Yes, of course the workers at cooperatives get paid a wage. There's a socially on bread factory in the United States where the assembly line workers make $70,000 a year. Again, like I already explained, the workers are 100% of the wealth that their labour produces. When you work at a capitalist company, you cannot get 100% of the wealth that your labour produces. That's why so many people prefer to work at socialist companies. How much does an assembly line worker make at Walmart or Amazon? Maybe twenty thousand a year. But when you're working at a simple bread factory, like the example in that video that I showed you, the workers are making 70000 a year. And what's going to create more demand in the market? Somebody was $70,000 with a purchasing power or someone with $20,000 worth of purchasing power? That's why socialist companies are more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy.
Like I already explained earlier, people all don't get make the same amount of money at cooperatives. And of course their Democratic. One worker equals one vote.
So you have to ask yourself, do you like working under a boss or Would You Rather Be Your Own Boss? Would you prefer to get 100% of the wealth that your labour produces? Or would you prefer to get a portion of it? Do you really want to lose years of your life making money for someone else? Obviously no one in their right mind wants to work an 8-hour day will only getting paid for two. Obviously if you're going to be doing 100% of the work you should be getting a hundred percent of the wealth.
But anyway, each to their own. If you prefer a system where most of the wealth doesn't go to the workers but goes to the owners of capital so that we have a handful of billionaires owning most of the wealth on the planet and most of the capital, that's up to you. Doesn't make any sense to me..
Oh, and like I already mentioned. Merely filling the product of one's labour is not capitalism. If you own a farm collectively with a group of people and you sell the product of your labour, that is not capitalism. If you write a book and you sell it it in the market. That is not capitalism. If you grow vegetables in your garden and you sell them in the market, that is not capitalism. Capitalism is about capitalizing on other people's labour. You get Workers to do the work for you and then you pay them as little as possible keep it as much of the money for yourself as possible. That's capitalism.
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@vitolazlo5767 , what are you talkin about? The type of socialism that Richard Wolff is advocating provides a lot more freedom than capitalism. It's also more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy.
Freedom: obviously workers are going to have more freedom when they actually own their own company or factory. At a capitalist company you literally work at a dictatorship. The boss tells you what to wear, win to work, how hard you have to work, some even tell you when and how long you get to go to the washroom.
Equality: at socialist companies the workers have equal voting power. No one has more voting power than anyone else. Look at how many socialist companies that are in the United States that have that Democratic form of organization. Look at how successful those companies are, how productive there. The workers are happier, more creative, more efficient, take fewer sick days, there's less incidence of substance abuse, suicide, mental illness, Etc. There is no shortage of data to go by.
Prosperity: obviously socialist companies provide more prosperity for workers and communities compared to capitalist Enterprises. At a socialist company the workers get all of the wealth. At a capitalist company workers are paid as little as possible while push to produce as much as possible. The less workers make, the more profit there is for capitalists. So literally, the more successful a capitalist company is, the less purchasing power workers have. That's not conducive to a free-market are thriving economy. Jobs are tied to consumption. But when that money goes to the workers, they spend that money into the economy. They buy more pizza, beer, trips to the bowling alley, Etc. That makes it easier for people to start their own small businesses.
Why do you think it is that most socialist countries are subjected to economic imperialism and sanctions? Yeah, the capitalists do everything they can to destroy Alternatives and then claim that capitalism is the only system that works. I would recommend checking out the National Security archive just to see how many democracies the United States is overthrown just since 1945. If socialism was really so horrible, then the United States could just let those economies collapse on their own without doing everything they can to overthrow them.
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@MJMilano7 , as I just stated to VITO LAZLO , The type of socialism that Richard Wolff is advocating provides a lot more freedom than capitalism. It's also more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy.
Freedom: obviously workers are going to have more freedom when they actually own their own company or factory. At a capitalist company you literally work at a dictatorship. The boss tells you what to wear, win to work, how hard you have to work, some even tell you when and how long you get to go to the washroom.
Equality: at socialist companies the workers have equal voting power. No one has more voting power than anyone else. Look at how many socialist companies that are in the United States that have that Democratic form of organization. Look at how successful those companies are, how productive there. The workers are happier, more creative, more efficient, take fewer sick days, there's less incidence of substance abuse, suicide, mental illness, Etc. There is no shortage of data to go by.
Prosperity: obviously socialist companies provide more prosperity for workers and communities compared to capitalist Enterprises. At a socialist company the workers get all of the wealth. At a capitalist company workers are paid as little as possible while push to produce as much as possible. The less workers make, the more profit there is for capitalists. So literally, the more successful a capitalist company is, the less purchasing power workers have. That's not conducive to a free-market are thriving economy. Jobs are tied to consumption. But when that money goes to the workers, they spend that money into the economy. They buy more pizza, beer, trips to the bowling alley, Etc. That makes it easier for people to start their own small businesses.
Why do you think it is that most socialist countries are subjected to economic imperialism and sanctions? Yeah, the capitalists do everything they can to destroy Alternatives and then claim that capitalism is the only system that works. I would recommend checking out the National Security archive just to see how many democracies the United States is overthrown just since 1945. If socialism was really so horrible, then the United States could just let those economies collapse on their own without doing everything they can to overthrow them.
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@MJMilano7 , let me give you another example. Not only is the United States notorious for overthrowing other Democratic countries, they actually have a school that is used to train death squads for the purpose of assassinating workers in South America that attempt to unionize or go socialist. That's not my opinion. That's a matter of public record. Check out the National Security archive.
Or another example. Let's go right back to 1917 when the workers managed to overthrow the repressive Czar in Russia. Who did the United States support? They supported the Tsar. They got together with Canada, Britain, France and Japan, sending troops directly into Russia in order to destroy those core workers that didn't even have access to electricity or indoor plumbing. Only the most primitive Farming tools. The Japanese didn't leave Russian soil until 1922! And, just like with Afghanistan, the United States funded a white Army. In Afghanistan and the United States supported and funded the mujahideen and Taliban for the purpose of overthrowing the democratic government. Can the United States use the mujahideen and Taliban as an excuse to actually go to war with Afghanistan. You know how many times the United States has repeated that process just since 1945?
Anyway, yeah, of course workers can own and control their own means of production collectively and democratically. Those types of companies are more efficient, more stable, more conducive to worker health, they make workers and communities less dependant upon the government, they're more conducive to free markets and thriving economies.
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@MJMilano7 , yeah? And what's your point? You think the transition from feudalism to capitalism happened all at once? No. In the beginning you had more feudal modes of production compared to capitalist modes of production. The feudal societies did everything they could to suppress the capitalist mode of production but eventually you ended up where there were more capitals modes of production than feudal of production. Likewise, today we see the expansion of socialist companies. There was a region in Europe where 44% of the GDP come from work her own companies. That's almost 50% of the way to a socialist economy.
Yeah, of course most of the countries are capitalist. Why do you think the USA has over 800 military bases in over 140 different countries? Again, you don't see competing socialist systems on a large scale because they're overthrown or subjected to severe economic sanctions. Look at the quotes from Henry Kissinger saying that any development of socialism has to be crushed in its infancy before it has a chance to spread. Look at the history regarding Guatemala, Venezuela, Honduras, Chile, Yugoslavia, etc.
Now do you actually have an argument or not? If you don't think socialism Works, explain why. What is it about socialism that you think makes it unviable? Saying that we don't see any fully socialist countries, that's not an argument. At one time the entire world was illiterate. If you were to say back then that we don't see any literacy, that's not an argument that people can't become literate. 😀
the Socialist mode of production is expanding all the time. And we have no shortage of data to show us how it compares to the capitalist mode of production.
Freedom: obviously it provides more freedom for workers and communities because the workers and communities own their own factories and businesses.
When you're an employee at a capitalist company, you don't have any freedom except to quit. The boss can even tell you what you can where and when and how long you get to go to the washroom.
Equality: well obviously when workers have equal voting power they're going to have more equality. You have no voting power when you were at a capitalist company. That's why so many people during the labour movement fought and died to achieve the right to unionize.
Prosperity: obviously when workers get all of the wealth that their labour produces they're going to have more Prosperity. Obviously that's going to be more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy because when you increase purchasing power that creates more demand in the economy. It causes the economy to expand.
Capitalism is not conducive to free markets are thriving economies because the goal is to maximize profit by keeping wages as low as possible while getting the workers to produce as much as possible. That creates a situation where there's more Supply then available purchasing power. The more successful a capitalist company is, the less purchasing power workers have.
Again, that wasn't a better motive production, than the United States wouldn't have to spend so much time overthrowing and sanctioning socialist countries.
You're not making an argument.
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@siedlape1 , the type of socialism that Richard Wolff is talking about doesn't have anything to do with the government. The socialism that he's referring to is economic democracy. And economic democracy is better than capitalism for a variety of reasons:
▪ study number 1:
The ‘Merva-Fowles’ study, done at the University of Utah in the 1990s, found powerful connections between unemployment and crime. They based their research on 30 major metropolitan areas with a total population of over 80 million.
A 1% rise in unemployment resulted in:
a 6.7% increase in Homicides;
a 3.4 % increase in violent crimes;
a 2.4 % increase in property crime.
During the period from 1990 to 1992, this translated into:
1459 additional Homicides;
62,607 additional violent crimes;
223,500 additional property crimes.
▪ Study number 2:
The Whitehall study found that workers at the bottom of the social ladder had greater concentrations of stress hormones than their counterparts in higher managerial positions.
In contrast, a survey carried out by The Anxiety Disorder Association of America, in 2006, found that workers were far less stressed and anxious when they had more of a say over their own work.
adaa.org/workplace-stress-anxiety-disorders-survey
▪ Study number 3:
Virginie Perotin's research** which looked at two decades worth of international data, shows that worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses.
"The idea that employees can run their own firms might sound unrealistic to some. This study looks at international data on worker-owned and run businesses in Europe, the US and Latin America and compares them with conventional businesses. It also reviews international statistical studies on the firms’ productivity, survival, investment and responsiveness.
It finds that worker co-operatives represent a serious business alternative and bring significant benefits to their employees and to the economy. There are thousands of worker-run businesses in Europe, employing several hundred thousand people in a broad range of industries, from traditional manufacturing to the creative and high-tech industries.
Because worker co-operatives are owned and run by them, employees in worker-owned co-operatives have far more say in the business, from day-to-day concerns through to major strategic issues.
The largest study comparing the productivity of worker co-operatives with that of conventional businesses finds that in several industries, conventional companies would produce more with their current levels of employment and capital if they behaved like employee-owned firms.
When market conditions change worker cooperatives review wages first and keep employment more stable. In a downturn worker co-operatives drop wages rather than reducing their workforce. When business picks up they are ready to
respond and can make up for lost pay because employees enjoy a share of profit."
The main findings from the analysis and review are:
• Worker co-operatives are larger than conventional businesses and not necessarily less capital intensive.
• Worker co-operatives survive at least as long as other businesses and have more stable employment.
• Worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses, with staff working “better and smarter” and production organised more efficiently.
• Worker co-operatives retain a larger share of their profits than other business models.
• Executive and non-executive pay differentials are much narrower in worker co-operatives than other firms.
** "Virginie Pérotin is Professor of Economics at Leeds University Business School and specialises in the effects of firm ownership and governance on performance, worker co-operatives, employee ownership and profit sharing. Previous academic and research roles include positions at the International Labour Office, the London School of Economics and the Centre d’Etude des Revenus et des Coûts (CERC) in the French Prime Minister’s Office in Paris. Professor Pérotin has also acted as a consultant to the European Commission, World Bank and OECD on issues of profit-sharing, employee ownership and employee involvement schemes."
▪ Study number 4:
This study by The Democracy Collaborative found that in the US, worker cooperatives can increase worker incomes by 70-80%, and that they can grow 2% faster a year than other businesses. This data also showed that worker coops have 9-19% greater levels of productivity, 45% lower turnover rates, and are 30% less likely to fail in the first few years of operation!
▪ Study number 5:
This study of worker cooperatives in Italy, the UK, and France found “positive” relationships with productivity. It also found that worker cooperatives do not become less productive as they get larger. One 1995 study of worker cooperatives in the timber industry in Washington, USA found that “co-ops are more efficient than the principal conventional firms by between 6 and 14 percent”.
▪ Study number 6:
An in-depth study of the Mondragon Corporation released today (5 April 2017) reveals how a large global business thrives because it’s owned by its workers, caps the gap between the highest and lowest paid, and has built an ecosystem around itself.
Now you compare that with capitalist Enterprises where where the pay disparity between the top and the bottom is as high as 312 times!
CEOs and shareholders do not Work 312 times harder then the actual workers themselves. These disparities only exist in dictatorial capitalist companies where workers have no control. And that's why in Flint Michigan the workers at the Ford Motor Company plant we're forced to poison their own water supply. It's why they had no choice when production was moved offshore. Those kind of problems do not exist or happen in workplace democracies. /business/2018/aug/16/ceo-versus-worker-wage-american-companies-pay-gap-study-2018
▪︎ Worldwide, cooperatives represent well over $3 trillion in turnover, 12.6 million in employment, and over a billion people in total membership.
w w w .un.org/esa/socdev/documents/2014/coopsegm/grace .pdf
▪︎ In the United States the cooperative sector represents over $500 billion in revenues and employs about two million people
/reic.uwcc.wisc.edu/sites/all/REIC_FINAL.pdf
▪ Cooperatives power almost 60% of the United States land mass. electric.coop/electric-cooperative-fact-sheet/
▪ "The 29,284 cooperative firms operating in the US generate over 2 million jobs and create more than $74 billion in wages annually according to a study conducted by the University of Wisconsin Center for Cooperatives, with support from the United States Department of Agriculture Rural Development. They represent 1% of USA Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and account for more than $654 billion in revenue. These cooperative businesses contribute with $133.5 billion in income and $3 trillion in assets, and provide products and services across the country in every sector of the economy."
"US cooperatives’ contribution to the national and local economies can be measured in both financial and non financial ways. They keep profits local, pay local taxes to help support community services, take part in community improvement programs and provide services for a large numbrer of people in the country regardless of their income levels or geographic location."
▪ Key points to highlight about American cooperatives:
• There are 120 million cooperative members.
• 92 million U.S. consumers are member owners of, and receive all or part of their financial services from the nation’s nearly 8,200 credit unions.
• More than 900 electric cooperatives deliver electricity in the United States to 42 million people in 47 states. That equates to 12 percent of the nation’s population.
• In the United States, more than 1.2 million families of all income levels live in homes owned and operated through cooperative associations.
• Farmer co-ops provide over 250,000 jobs, with a total payroll in excess of $8 billion.
• More than 50 million Americans are served by insurance companies owned by or closely affiliated with cooperatives.
• More than 20 cooperatives have annual sales in excess of $1 billion, including well known names like Land O’ Lakes, Inc., Cabot Creamery, Ocean Spray and ACE Hardware.
US data on Cooperatives
• 29,284 cooperative firms
•654 billion plus in revenue.
• $133.5 billion in income.
• $3 trillion in assets.
• 2 million plus jobs.
• 120 million members.
.aciamericas.coop/Economic-impact-of-the-United
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@siedlape1 , who takes the risk? The workers take the risk! And of course like with any company there are a variety of protections, like limited liability. cooperatives come in all shapes and sizes. Coffee shops, print shops, here's a Cooperative in Spain that has over a hundred thousand employees. They own their own Hospital, high-tech Research Laboratories, Bank, University, they even have their own social programs. There is a region in Europe where 44% of the GDP comes from worker and Community owned companies and factories. If most of the GDP comes from socialist companies rather than private companies, then your economy is socialist.
There are many institutional forms of public and social ownership. For example,
Forms of social production:
• producer cooperatives.
A producer Co-operative is owned collectively and equally by the people who work in it, and is usually governed according to "one person, one vote."
Cooperatives are one of the most common forms of nonprofit Enterprises. There are hundreds of thousands of cooperatives in the world; the United Nations estimates that half the world's population are members or customers of a Cooperative. Examples of successful producer cooperatives include Fonterra (New Zealand's largest Dairy producer), the ReWe Group (a major tourism company in Germany), Huawei (a giant Chinese electronics manufacturer, 99% owned by its workers), and Japan's Farm sector where over 90% of the Farmers belong to cooperatives). Strong networks of producer cooperatives are the dominant economic structure in Spain's Mondragon region and Italy's Emilia-Romagna region.
• Consumer Cooperatives.
A consumer Cooperative is owned collectively and equally by the people who buy its products, and is usually governed according to "one person, one vote."
Many retail cooperatives are formed to help consumers obtain lower prices and challenge the market power of private retailers. In Denmark over one-third of all retail sales are conducted through cooperatives. The E.Leclerc Cooperative operates over 500 supermarkets in France. Canada's Mountain Equipment Co-op runs the country's largest retail Network for outdoor recreation products.
• Recovered companies.
Workers in a bankrupt company effectively expropriate the Enterprise and attempt to keep it in business.
In the years after the 2001 financial crisis in Argentina, over 200 bankrupt factories were taken over by their workers, who continue to operate them (with some government support for refinancing). 2013 law in Bolivia gives workers the explicit legal authority to take over filled firms.
• Community Trusts.
A Community Trust is a non-profit Corporation, usually exempt from normal business taxes, created to purchase and development land, housing, and other Community Asset.
There are over 250 Community Land Trust operating in the US, with the explicit mission to undertake affordable housing develop, Environmental Conservation, and local job creation on lands that they own. Governance is based on a shared model that includes lessees and elected local representatives.
• Benefit corporations.
A benefit Corporation is owned by private shareholders, but obliged by its Charter to pursue social and environmental goals in addition to profit.
"B Lab" is an association which publishes an annual Global ranking of successful benefit corporations. Recent recognized firms include Echele! a tu casa (a benefit corporation based in Mexico City which develops low-cost housing for residents of poor neighborhoods), and Give Something Back (a major office supply company in California with a Community Development mandate).
• Community and nonprofit Enterprises.
Jobs in especially hard-hit regions and communities can be created by nonprofit Community Development agencies, drawing on local resources including training, housing and alternative Finance.
Community Economic Development (CED) is an "up by the bootstraps" effort to mobilize local resources that would otherwise idle, providing local Services, developing infrastructure, and providing unemployed people with job experience and training. Decentralized CED initiatives can be important in many developing economies, and in poor or remote regions of developed countries. Some entire communities have been founded and sustained on Cooperative principles in many countries.
• Credit unions and Cooperative Banks.
Credit unions and other Cooperative banks are owned by their members, and govern according to "one person, one vote."
there are at least 60,000 credit unions and Cooperative banks in the world, with trillions of dollars in Combined assets; they are the most developed and Powerful form of cooperative enterprise. Large credit unions are important Financial players in many countries, including: Netherlands (the huge Rabobank has 60,000 employees and 750 billion in assets), and France (three major cooperative bank federations account for almost half of all consumer banking), Sweden (the JAK Bank makes loans without charging interest at all), and Canada (the Desjardins credit union movement is the largest financial institution in Quebec).
• Social investment funds and Foundations.
These Financial funds are mandated to make investments in various firms or social Enterprises, in accordance with a broader social man, while still learning and adequate or Target rate of return.
The solidarity fund is a 10 billion investment fund established by the Quebec Federation of Labor in Canada to invest in businesses which contribute to Quebec's economic and social development. RSF social Finance is a non-profit financial institution , (founded in 1936) focus on lending to nonprofit and social Enterprises in the US. Oxfam UK has started an Enterprise Development Program to channel financial investments to social enterprises in 20 developing countries. Alaska Native Corporations are collectively owned entities founded with Native resource revenues, to invest in a range of businesses and development projects; their collective revenues exceed 10 billion per year.
• Microcredit.
Microlending is undertaken on a nonprofit or cost-recovery basis, with a focus on small loans to households and small producers (usually in developing countries or poor neighborhoods).
The most famous microcredit institution is the Grameen Bank in Bangladesh, owned cooperatively by its Borrowers; it extends small low interest loans (mostly to women) through a participatory loan management system ( in which groups of borrowers collectively determine who receives new loans, and collectively ensure the loans are repaid). Similar systems have been introduced in other poor countries, and in some regions or neighborhoods of rich countries.
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@siedlape1 , and here are some studies on the subject. If you're interested.
▪ Study number 1:
The Whitehall study found that workers at the bottom of the social ladder had greater concentrations of stress hormones than their counterparts in higher managerial positions.
In contrast, a survey carried out by The Anxiety Disorder Association of America, in 2006, found that workers were far less stressed and anxious when they had more of a say over their own work.
adaa.org/workplace-stress-anxiety-disorders-survey
▪ Study number 2:
Virginie Perotin's research** which looked at two decades worth of international data, shows that worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses.
"The idea that employees can run their own firms might sound unrealistic to some. This study looks at international data on worker-owned and run businesses in Europe, the US and Latin America and compares them with conventional businesses. It also reviews international statistical studies on the firms’ productivity, survival, investment and responsiveness.
It finds that worker co-operatives represent a serious business alternative and bring significant benefits to their employees and to the economy. There are thousands of worker-run businesses in Europe, employing several hundred thousand people in a broad range of industries, from traditional manufacturing to the creative and high-tech industries.
Because worker co-operatives are owned and run by them, employees in worker-owned co-operatives have far more say in the business, from day-to-day concerns through to major strategic issues.
The largest study comparing the productivity of worker co-operatives with that of conventional businesses finds that in several industries, conventional companies would produce more with their current levels of employment and capital if they behaved like employee-owned firms.
When market conditions change worker cooperatives review wages first and keep employment more stable. In a downturn worker co-operatives drop wages rather than reducing their workforce. When business picks up they are ready to
respond and can make up for lost pay because employees enjoy a share of profit."
The main findings from the analysis and review are:
• Worker co-operatives are larger than conventional businesses and not necessarily less capital intensive.
• Worker co-operatives survive at least as long as other businesses and have more stable employment.
• Worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses, with staff working “better and smarter” and production organised more efficiently.
• Worker co-operatives retain a larger share of their profits than other business models.
• Executive and non-executive pay differentials are much narrower in worker co-operatives than other firms.
** "Virginie Pérotin is Professor of Economics at Leeds University Business School and specialises in the effects of firm ownership and governance on performance, worker co-operatives, employee ownership and profit sharing. Previous academic and research roles include positions at the International Labour Office, the London School of Economics and the Centre d’Etude des Revenus et des Coûts (CERC) in the French Prime Minister’s Office in Paris. Professor Pérotin has also acted as a consultant to the European Commission, World Bank and OECD on issues of profit-sharing, employee ownership and employee involvement schemes."
▪ Study number 3:
This study by The Democracy Collaborative found that in the US, worker cooperatives can increase worker incomes by 70-80%, and that they can grow 2% faster a year than other businesses. This data also showed that worker coops have 9-19% greater levels of productivity, 45% lower turnover rates, and are 30% less likely to fail in the first few years of operation!
▪ Study number 4:
This study of worker cooperatives in Italy, the UK, and France found “positive” relationships with productivity. It also found that worker cooperatives do not become less productive as they get larger. One 1995 study of worker cooperatives in the timber industry in Washington, USA found that “co-ops are more efficient than the principal conventional firms by between 6 and 14 percent”.
▪ Study number 5:
An in-depth study of the Mondragon Corporation released today (5 April 2017) reveals how a large global business thrives because it’s owned by its workers, caps the gap between the highest and lowest paid, and has built an ecosystem around itself.
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@siedlape1 , I just gave you a list of many different companies in the United States and around the world. Yes, I actually have a owned my own company for years.
▪︎ Worldwide, cooperatives represent well over $3 trillion in turnover, 12.6 million in employment, and over a billion people in total membership.
http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/documents/2014/coopsegm/grace.pdf
▪︎ In the United States the cooperative sector represents over $500 billion in revenues and employs about two million people
http://reic.uwcc.wisc.edu/sites/all/REIC_FINAL.pdf
▪ Cooperatives power almost 60% of the United States land mass. electric.coop/electric-cooperative-fact-sheet/
▪ "The 29,284 cooperative firms operating in the US generate over 2 million jobs and create more than $74 billion in wages annually according to a study conducted by the University of Wisconsin Center for Cooperatives, with support from the United States Department of Agriculture Rural Development. They represent 1% of USA Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and account for more than $654 billion in revenue. These cooperative businesses contribute with $133.5 billion in income and $3 trillion in assets, and provide products and services across the country in every sector of the economy."
"US cooperatives’ contribution to the national and local economies can be measured in both financial and non financial ways. They keep profits local, pay local taxes to help support community services, take part in community improvement programs and provide services for a large numbrer of people in the country regardless of their income levels or geographic location."
▪ Key points to highlight about American cooperatives:
• There are 120 million cooperative members.
• 92 million U.S. consumers are member owners of, and receive all or part of their financial services from the nation’s nearly 8,200 credit unions.
• More than 900 electric cooperatives deliver electricity in the United States to 42 million people in 47 states. That equates to 12 percent of the nation’s population.
• In the United States, more than 1.2 million families of all income levels live in homes owned and operated through cooperative associations.
• Farmer co-ops provide over 250,000 jobs, with a total payroll in excess of $8 billion.
• More than 50 million Americans are served by insurance companies owned by or closely affiliated with cooperatives.
• More than 20 cooperatives have annual sales in excess of $1 billion, including well known names like Land O’ Lakes, Inc., Cabot Creamery, Ocean Spray and ACE Hardware.
US data on Cooperatives
• 29,284 cooperative firms
•654 billion plus in revenue.
• $133.5 billion in income.
• $3 trillion in assets.
• 2 million plus jobs.
• 120 million members.
.aciamericas.coop/Economic-impact-of-the-United
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@siedlape1 , yes, the only way you can own the product of your labour is to either start your own business as an individual or collectively with a group of people. You see, is easy for billionaires to buy things such as railroads, electric companies, grocery stores, apartment buildings, and then just live off of other people's labour. But since capitalism works by keeping most people poor, your average individual has to get together collectively with other individuals in order to start a business. Yes, there's risks. It doesn't matter who owns the business. But yeah, Richard Wolff is basically pointing out that if you don't want to be human livestock, if you don't want to lose most of the years of your life making wealth for other people, then you have to figure out a way to become an owner. Forming a Cooperative increases your chances of success.
Capitalism is about owning for a living. Socialism is about working for a living and getting to keep what you work for.
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@siedlape1 , also, yes, capitalism is a type of feudalism. It's economic feudalism. You have a very small minority that controls most of the capital and therefore gets most of the wealth produced by labour. Obviously if you have a small group of people getting most of the wealth produced by labour, it's going to cause poverty. The lower they keep your wages, the more profit they make. The billionaire class is a consequence of both labor-saving producing technology and low wages. Low-wage workers are actually cheaper than chattel slaves. Chattel slaves were huge investment. They had to be trained, well-disciplined, housed, clothed, said, their medical had to be provided, Etc. That's why back in the Antebellum South wage workers were used for the more dangerous jobs. Chattel slaves were too valuable to risk. Wage workers are disposable. The only chattel slaves that were used for dangerous jobs were those who couldn't be domesticated and were constantly trying to escape. A well domesticated, loyal chattel slave was extremely valuable.
When you don't own the product of your labour, then you are basically nothing more than human livestock. You are a slave!. A Slave. Just like a cow. If you give a cow bovine growth hormone in order to double milk production, does the cow get to work half as many hours? Does the cow get twice the amount of wealth? No. Every drop of milk produced by the cow belongs to the farmer. That's why labor-saving technology hasn't led to reduced working hours and increased prosperity for everyone. Instead it led to the Advent of the billionaire class because all increases in productivity end up going to the owners of capital, just like the milk goes to the farmer.
You look at that bread factory in the United States. The assembly line workers can make $70,000 a year because they own the product of their labour. If they get labor-saving technology that replaces 500 people, they now have five hundred people to share in the remaining workload. However, at a capitalist company, those 500 people would be laid off where they would have to compete with other unemployed people for the remaining jobs. That drives the value of Labor downward. Whoever has the most education, is willing to work the hardest for the least amount of money, that's the person who's going to get access to the remaining jobs. With every passing day we can produce more and more with less and less labour. That's why they're now talking about coming out with a universal basic income. In order to keep the Monopoly board game going, you'll have to have people collecting $200 every time they pass go. If not, the human farming system collapses. And that's what capitalism is. It's a human livestock management system.
Yeah, capitalism is great if you can go from being livestock to actually being a livestock owner! If you can transition to the capitalist class, there's no shortage of over-educated, desperate workers that are willing to work for next to nothing! That's the American dream!
Like I said, capitalism is about owning for a living. You get as many employees as you can, you get them to produce as much as you can, and you pay them as little as possible. That's the capitalist imperative. The maximization of capital accumulation for the purpose of extracting wealth from labour. Human livestock management.
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@siedlape1 , under socialism labor-saving technology is a good thing because it reduces working hours while increasing prosperity for everyone. Under capitalism, leaver saving technology led to the Advent of the billionaire class. Like I said, because all increases in productivity go to the owners of capital, just like milk from a cow goes to the farmer, workers remain depended upon a 40 hour work day in order to survive. Like I already said, with every passing day we can produce more and more with less and less labour. That's why they're coming out with a universal basic income. When workers get laid off they have to compete with one another and that drives the value of Labor down. Most people have to work at least 40 hours a week in order to be able to afford all of their bills. The problem is, we no longer need to work 40 hours a week in order to produce all of the goods and services required by Society.
You see, one of the central goals of Economics is to achieve equilibrium. You can't do that under capitalism because workers don't get paid the full value of their labour. Once you reach a ceiling limit regarding production, you have to reduce working hours. We just have to be commensurate with production output. You can't be increasing production output at a faster rate than income. Just like you can't spend $100 every time you earn 20. But under capitalism the main goal is the maximization of profit. That means getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible. That's why, technically speaking, capitalism is an anti economic system.
You see, we have a middle class today because of the fight against capitalism. Otherwise, we'd probably making $10 a day like so many other third-world countries. That's what the United States was before the fight against capitalism back in the days of Rockefeller and Carnegie, JPMorgan, Etc. For the working class, back then, the United States was a third world country. And the fact of the matter is, for more and more people every day, the United States is becoming a third world country.
Anyway, because of the fight against capitalism, we managed to go from the 18-hour day, to the 10-hour day, the 9-hour day and the 8-hour day. We've had the 8-hour day for almost a hundred years! If wages and working hours kept up with increases in productivity, we probably be only working 4 hours a day, four days a week by now with twice the living standards of our parents. Since 1950 productivity levels have more than tripled. The Agricultural Revolution increased agricultural output by almost 300% in 15 years while simultaneously reducing the need for Labour by more than half! But again, all of the wealth created by that increasing productivity didn't go toward reducing working hours or higher income from workers, it gets absorbed by the capitalist class. How much longer do you have to work for a week supply of groceries? How many more hours do you have to work in order to buy a home? Or car? Or getting education? And it's going to continue to get worse. Capitalism will go back to its default position. With every passing day the owners of capital are getting a larger percentage of the GDP.
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@siedlape1 , nothing you've said has anything to with what I've said. Yeah, of course people and Society benefits from technology. But that doesn't negate the fact that labor-saving technology doesn't reduce working hours. That's because workers are slaves. Workers don't own the product of their labour. That's why they call it wage slavery. Just like with the cow when you give it bovine growth hormone to double milk production, all of the milk belongs to Just like with the cow when you give it bovine growth hormone to double milk production, all of the milk belongs to the farmer. Likewise, if labor-saving technology doubles the production output of a worker, the worker doesn't get twice the amount of wealth or get to work half as many hours. But if you're working at a socialist company, then the workers would get that wealth.
Do you understand the point now? Under capitalism we would still have the 18 hour work day if workers didn't fight to have a reduction in working hours. Likewise, since labor-saving technology has more than tripled production output with the same amount of Labor since 1950, technically we should only be working 1/3 as many hours at the same rate of income. If labor-saving technology is introduced which doubles your production output, you still have to work 40 hours a week at the same rate of pay. It labor-saving technology cut labor-hours in half but the market is saturated, then half of the employees will be laid off. That's one of the major problems with capitalism. Socialism doesn't have that problem because workers are free. They own the product of their labour.
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@siedlape1 , who said anything about taking away other people's stuff or taking away from other people's success?
Yes, if you do not own the product of your labour and you are forced work for a wage for survival, then you are a wage slave. Even the Republican party used to be against wage slavery. Wage slavery was considered to be an extremely embarrassing and horrible position in the United States back before the early nineteen hundreds. Like I already pointed out, just like with a cow, it doesn't matter how much wealth your labour produces. It All Belongs to someone else. That's why labor-saving technology doesn't reduced working hours for workers and less workers actually fight for lower hours. If reduction in working hours had have kept pace with productivity levels, we would only be working 16 hours a week. Industry can't even come close to running at 100% capacity. Since before 1950 we had the ability to produce far more than we're capable of consuming. Capitalism has to use planned obsolescence and a disposable economy in order to keep people employed at 40 hours a week. Do you have any idea how insane that is? Most of your labour energy is ending up in the landfill. Something like 99% of the resources we bring into existence with our labour ends up in the landfill after only about 6 months.
under socialism, people own the product of their labour. If you only had to work 8 hours a week in order to have a very comfortable living, if you didn't gain access to labor-saving technology which Cuts your workload in half, now you only have to work 4 hours for the same quality of life. But if you're an employee, then you still have to work the full 8 hours, your employer is the one that ends up with twice the amount of output.
Anyway, I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say. We don't need capitalism in order to have a business. We don't need it in order to have a market. We don't need it in order to have production. Capitalism is the economic system of the capitalist ruling class. They spend billions of dollars on propaganda trying to convince us that we need their system. That somehow it's better for us if they control the wealth producing technology and resources. That be like me telling you that you're better off if you give your house to me and then I will take care of all of the maintenance you just have to give me half of your paycheck every month.
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@danbenson7587 , socialism is better for markets. If you like markets, then you should be anti-capitalist and pro-socialist. Capitalism destroys markets. Socialism expands markets and opportunities.
When workers actually own the product of their labour than they have more incentive to work and innovate.
The problem with capitalism is that it's not based on work. It's beast on owning for a living. Most of the wealth goes to those who own capital. That creates a situation where workers get paid as little as possible. But the less workers get paid the less money they have to buy stuff. That's not good for the market.
For example, there's a socialist break Factory in the United States where the assembly line workers make between 65 and $70,000 a year. They're able to make that much because they own the product of their labour. If they make a million dollars worth of bread, they now have a million dollars. But if you look at an assembly line worker at walmart, they're lucky if they make enough where they don't have to have food stamps to survive. Obviously the person making $70,000 a year is going to be better for the market because they can buy more stuff. That creates more opportunity for people because there's more demand for pizza, beer, trips to the bowling alley, etc. So the market expands. So if you're pro-market, then you should be pro-socialist.
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@danbenson7587 , communism? Communism is a stateless, classless and the moneyless society. The Soviet Union was never commented. They never even claimed any comment. They had a communist government. It doesn't matter whether the government is communist, socialist or capitalist. If you give dictatorial powers to someone, you're asking for trouble. If you remove checks and balances within the government, you're asking for trouble.
Workers slack off at worker-owned companies? That doesn't make any sense. When workers own the product of their labour they're more motivated. It's like if you actually own a car rather than renting a car. Statistically speaking workers are happier, more productive, take fewer sick days, they're more creative, there's less incidence of mental illness, Etc. This is why it's almost impossible to goof off at a worker-owned company:
https://youtu.be/-VdbFzwe8fQ
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@danbenson7587 , you have more billionaires being created because more and more of the GDP is going to the owners of capital rather than the workers. Why do you think it is that most people can no longer afford a family on a single income? Dude, you have to understand that every time you have a dollar that goes to someone who didn't work for it somewhere else who have someone who work for dollar that they don't get. It is not possible for a person to convert their labour energy into a billion dollars. Don't you understand that? What you're supporting is a religion which is impoverishing most of the people on the planet. You now have a situation where the richest 1% has almost as much wealth as the poorest 91% of the American population. You have over 40 million Americans that work full-time but need food stamps! That's how you get billionaires! 40 million people! That's more people than the entire population of Canada!
Why do you support the economic system of parasites? Don't you believe and actually having to work for the wealth that you accumulate? Why do you support such an immoral system that's based on exploitation rather than working?
▪︎ The 1% grabbed 82% of all wealth created in 2017. ~
Wall Street Journal
▪ During the last 20 years over 90% of newly created wealth went to the top 1%.
The Top 1% of Americans Have Taken $50 Trillion From the Bottom 90%
~ Time Magazine
▪ The two richest people—Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates—possess almost the same amount of wealth as the poorest half of the population.
▪ the richest 1% has almost as much wealth as the poorest 91% of the American population.
▪ The wealthiest Americans live on average 20 years longer than the poorest Americans.
▪︎ The number of homeless children in the United States is at its highest in more than a decade, according to a recent study by the National Center for Homeless Education. ~2017 stat
▪ The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania! Never mind trying to start a business either cooperatively or individually. That number 27 a person would be lucky just to be able to retire debt free. There's a reason why most Americans can no longer afford a family on a single income. Anyone can start a business? I think not.
▪ over 40% of u.s. households are one paycheck away from poverty.
▪ Banks have foreclosed on over 7 million homes between 2004 and 2015.
▪ There are 554,000 homeless people on a given night.
▪ The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation.
▪ As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
▪ 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut back throughout the years by successive Democratic and Republican administrations.
▪︎ more than one-third of us healthcare costs go to bankruptcy!
▪ A study conducted by researchers at Harvard University found 45,000 Americans die each year from preventable causes because they can’t afford healthcare. But, we do have a $1.5 trillion jet fighter that can’t fly in cloudy weather. Go ‘Murcia!
▪ In 2017 Over 30 million Americans had no health insurance and even more are under-insured with high deductibles and co-payments.
As of May 2018, the numbers of people in the U.S. without health insurance have risen to 15.5%, up from 12.7% two years ago, according to the latest Commonwealth Fund tracking survey. This translates to an increase of four million uninsured people nationwide. ~ forbes.
▪ "the US tops all European countries in terms of the percentage of workers and family members who avoid necessary trips to the doctor because they fear financial ruin from the inflated costs of their private health care." ~
Prof. James Petras (the American Sociological Review, British Journal of Sociology, Social Research, and Journal of Peasant Studies)
▪︎ Millions of Americans – as many as 25% of the population – are delaying getting medical help because of skyrocketing costs.
▪ more and more Americans are selling their blood for extra money.
over 40 million Americans, many of them full-time workers, require food stamps in order to get enough food to eat. That's more people than the entire population of Canada! When you're desperate enough, you'll even sell your blood!
"With 58% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, corporate America is exploiting poverty through blood and plasma donations while most other countries have banned the practice on ethical and medical grounds."
▪ economic insecurity and workplace stress is destroying the mental health of Americans.
USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people. ~
(Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
▪ Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime. ~
cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
▪ and as people become more desperate we see crime rates increasing.
▪ 3% of American adults—6.8 million people—are either in jail or prison or on parole or probation.
▪ A third of states have a form of debtor’s prison, where the poor are locked up for failure to pay fines or debts.
▪ There are 1.2 million police officers in the US—almost equal to the population of the state of New Hampshire.
▪ The police have killed 15,000 people since 2000.
▪ There are 55,000 children presently in juvenile detention.
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@danbenson7587 , the decisions are arrived at democratically. When the seasons only affect you, then only you get to decide. But when decisions affect everyone, then everyone gets to decide. One worker equals one share. One share equals one vote. No one person can own more than one share. Under capitalism the number of shares you can own depends on how much money you have. So if you're someone like Bill Gates or Elon Musk, you can buy yourself a million votes where the average worker would be lucky if he can afford one or two. That's why capitalism is a plutocracy. Plutocracy means rule by money. That's why the government represents the owning class and not the working class. Under capitalism workers have to fight constantly for protections and privileges under the law. The capitalist class did everything they could to stop people from implementing minimum wage, the 8-hour day, the 40-hour work week, child labour laws, Etc. It's all part of the public record. All you have to do is look up the history of JPMorgan, Carnegie, Rockefeller, Etc. The only reason we're not working 18 hours a day along with 12-year-old children is because of extreme pressure the working-class put on the capitalist government.
Anyway, at a socialist company you are part of a family. Everyone sits down and decides on how things should be done. So how much you earn depends on how dangerous the job is, how monotonous the job is, how much seniority you have, how fast you work, etc. Ninety-nine percent of the time the disparity between the highest and lowest paid worker usually does not exceed 6 to 1. And the reason for that is because regardless of how much talent you have, regardless of how fast you work, regardless of how much education you have, it's not usually possible for a person to work 6 times faster or harder than someone else. It's usually not possible for a person to convert their labour energy and just six times more wealth than someone else.
Do you see how these workers vote on decisions? https://youtu.be/-VdbFzwe8fQ
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@danbenson7587 , dude, you're not making any sense. You're not making an argument. Even if you can change jobs that doesn't change the fact that when you work at a capitalist company you don't have any freedom. You have to do what you're told. It doesn't change the fact that when you work at a capitalist company you do not own the product of your labour. It does not change the fact that when you work at a capitalist company you do not have any voting power. Boss gets to decide when you work, how hard you have to work, when you get to take a break, whether or not you get to have a coffee break, they can even tell you what you can wear and when and how long you get to go to the washroom.
But at socialist companies workers do own the product of their labour. The workers have sovereignty. The workers have equal voting power.
That's the argument. If you look at the history of slavery in the Antebellum South we can see how slaves were able to improve their working condition by making deals with the boss. If the slaves agreed not to encourage other slaves to be disruptive, if they promise not to burn or sabotage anyting, if they agree to work hard and not Escape, sometimes they were offered Freedom after a certain number of years. Or certain guarantees regarding working hours and treatment. But is that a justification for slavery? It's the same thing when you work as an employee at a capitalist company. The boss still has all the power. The boss still owned everything you produce. That's not freedom. We're talking about the difference between freedom and non freedom. That's the argument. So, if you have the option of owning the product of your labour, if you have the option to get all of the wealth of your labour produces, if you have the option of actually having voting power and sovereignty, wouldn't you choose that over a dictatorship where someone else owns everything you produce and control your actions?
You just keep repeating the standard lines made by the capitalist class. Oh, you work harder than you can achieve whatever you want. You can always move up to higher positions. There's always opportunity at the top, Etc. Sure, workers compete with one another with a 98% failure rate while 2% get the rewards, working their way into higher management, and who gets the benefit from all that competition? The person who owns everything that's being produced. The person who gets to make the rules. The person who has all the power.
You're not making an argument. It basically comes down to Freedom versus non freedom. Sovereignty versus non sovereignty.
Now do you actually have an argument or not? I don't know why you keep talking about all of the things that the wage slave can accomplish if he just works hard enough and searches long enough for the right boss. It's pathetic. Maybe you don't care to own the product of your labour. Maybe you don't mind working for someone who has the power to tell you when and how long you get to go to the washroom. But that's you. I'm trying to explain to you the argument the workers are making. Surely you can understand why so many of them prefer the Socialist mode of production over the capitalist mode of production. Under the Socialist mode of production they are free and own the product of their labour. Under the capitalist mode of production they are wage slaves that don't own anything that their labour produces. That's not much better than being a chattel slave. The only difference is you get to choose your boss.
And no, most people that work at Walmart don't do so because of choice. They do so because they don't have any other options. When it comes to First World countries the United States is number one in the world for low-wage workers. Do you have any idea how many workers commit suicide because they don't have any options? You really think someone would work at Walmart or Amazon and sleep in their car if they actually had an option to work at someplace better? I'm sorry, but your points of view and understanding of the capitalist system is extremely ignorant. I don't mean to be rude, but you really need to look at the statistics.
▪︎ The 1% grabbed 82% of all wealth created in 2017. ~
Wall Street Journal
▪ During the last 20 years over 90% of newly created wealth went to the top 1%.
The Top 1% of Americans Have Taken $50 Trillion From the Bottom 90%
~ Time Magazine
▪ The two richest people—Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates—possess almost the same amount of wealth as the poorest half of the population.
▪ the richest 1% has almost as much wealth as the poorest 91% of the American population.
▪ The wealthiest Americans live on average 20 years longer than the poorest Americans.
▪︎ The number of homeless children in the United States is at its highest in more than a decade, according to a recent study by the National Center for Homeless Education. ~2017 stat
▪ The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania! Never mind trying to start a business either cooperatively or individually. That number 27 a person would be lucky just to be able to retire debt free. There's a reason why most Americans can no longer afford a family on a single income. Anyone can start a business? I think not.
▪ over 40% of u.s. households are one paycheck away from poverty.
▪ Banks have foreclosed on over 7 million homes between 2004 and 2015.
▪ There are 554,000 homeless people on a given night.
▪ The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation.
▪ As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
▪ 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut back throughout the years by successive Democratic and Republican administrations.
▪︎ more than one-third of us healthcare costs go to bankruptcy!
▪ A study conducted by researchers at Harvard University found 45,000 Americans die each year from preventable causes because they can’t afford healthcare. But, we do have a $1.5 trillion jet fighter that can’t fly in cloudy weather. Go ‘Murcia!
▪ In 2017 Over 30 million Americans had no health insurance and even more are under-insured with high deductibles and co-payments.
As of May 2018, the numbers of people in the U.S. without health insurance have risen to 15.5%, up from 12.7% two years ago, according to the latest Commonwealth Fund tracking survey. This translates to an increase of four million uninsured people nationwide. ~ forbes.
▪ "the US tops all European countries in terms of the percentage of workers and family members who avoid necessary trips to the doctor because they fear financial ruin from the inflated costs of their private health care." ~
Prof. James Petras (the American Sociological Review, British Journal of Sociology, Social Research, and Journal of Peasant Studies)
▪︎ Millions of Americans – as many as 25% of the population – are delaying getting medical help because of skyrocketing costs.
▪ more and more Americans are selling their blood for extra money.
over 40 million Americans, many of them full-time workers, require food stamps in order to get enough food to eat. That's more people than the entire population of Canada! When you're desperate enough, you'll even sell your blood!
"With 58% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, corporate America is exploiting poverty through blood and plasma donations while most other countries have banned the practice on ethical and medical grounds."
▪ economic insecurity and workplace stress is destroying the mental health of Americans.
USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people. ~
(Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
▪ Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime. ~
cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
▪ and as people become more desperate we see crime rates increasing.
▪ 3% of American adults—6.8 million people—are either in jail or prison or on parole or probation.
▪ A third of states have a form of debtor’s prison, where the poor are locked up for failure to pay fines or debts.
▪ There are 1.2 million police officers in the US—almost equal to the population of the state of New Hampshire.
▪ The police have killed 15,000 people since 2000.
▪ There are 55,000 children presently in juvenile detention.
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@ExPwner , why are you constantly talking about things you know nothing about? See, the fact that you get most of your information from internet sources such as wikipedia, that wouldn't be so bad if you're reading comprehension wasn't so incredibly poor.
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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What are you talkin about? There's hundreds of thousands of socialist companies in the United States and around the world. Almost 60% of the United States gets its electricity from worker-owned electrical cooperatives. There is a region in Europe where 44% of the GDP come from worker-owned companies. It should be obvious that worker-owned companies are better for workers and communities compared to capitalist Enterprises.
Workers get to keep the full value of their labour, they have equal voting power, and they have more freedom because they're Their Own Boss. They're more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy because when wealth flows to the workers instead of billionaires, more money gets spent into the economy. There's more demand for pizza, beer, trips to the bowling alley, Etc. But when most of the money is going to billionaires, they spend that money on going to space, buying politicians, by lobbyists, buying lawyers and accountants so they can hide money offshore. They also buy up more Capital like railroads, electric companies, Farmland Etc. Bill Gates now owns a big chunk of the Canadian Railway system and he's largest owner of Farmland in the United States. Be even bought up newly privatized labs in Canada where people get their blood tested. If you have to pay an extra $10 to Bill Gates every time you park your car get a blood test, that's $10 you no longer have to spend into the economy buying goods from your fellow workers. That causes the economy to contract.
Also, because workers cannot get the full value of their labour when they work at capitalist companies, the workers can never afford all of the goods and services they're producing. Production output is literally greater than purchasing power. That violates one of the basic principles of economics which is to achieve equilibrium.
The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by keeping wages as low as possible. So literally the more successful a capitals company is, the less purchasing power workers have. That's not conducive to free markets and thriving economies. That's antithetical. That's one of the reasons why capitalism becomes unstable every 4 to 7 years. Jobs are tied to consumption. It's only a matter of time before consumption slows where people get laid off and can't consume. To end up with with a domino effect.
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@Fldllse , why are you talking about Karl Marx? Richard wolf is simply talking about economic democracy. He's talking about increasing the number of worker-owned companies and factories so that communities and workers have more control over their labour and community. Those types of workplaces are better for workers, the environment, communities, they make people must depend upon the government and billionaire corporations when it comes to jobs and consumer goods. And more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy. When the wealth goes to the workers instead of a handful of billionaires, they spend that money into the economy. That causes the economy to expand. Statistically speaking worker-owned companies are actually more productive. But it's a moot point anyway because industry can't even come close to running at 100% capacity because for a long time now we have the capacity to produce far more than we're capable of consuming. In fact, we could be able to produce far more than we can consume.
There is no justification for capitalism in this day and age. You don't eat capitalism in order to have a business, to have a market, to have production, to have your mom and pop shop, have people selling and trading with one another. Capitalism is outdated. It's an immoral system based on exploitation and it's unsustainable. It's extremely primitive inefficient system of organization. In fact, it's one of the most wasteful and destructive system ever devised. Literally 99% of our labour energy ends up in the landfill. 99%! Would you be complaining about being over work 40 hours a week or not having enough to eat if 99% of your groceries when into the garbage every time you went shopping? Of course not. Can you imagine if you could get just 50% of that waste-to-energy back? We should have a high abundance Society with people working no more than 40 hours a week. Probably a lot less than that. But under this system, because capitalism drives wages down so low, workers are dependant upon a 40-hour work week even though we don't need to work that long in order to all the goods and services required by Society. That's why we now have a disposable economy. That's why we have planned and perceived obsolescence. It's to keep people working. The more productive we become the faster they figure out ways to get stuff into the landfill. Within less than three months workers can produce a year's supply of production output, but that's a serious problem because workers need a 40-hour work week in order to be able to survive because their wages are so low and the cost of things are so high. With what little money workers do get, it ends up going right back to the owners of capital in the form of rent and usage fees. It doesn't matter if you buy shoelaces, toilet paper, bubble gum, get a blood test, you have to pay extra money to an owner rather than just to those people that produce those things. It should be obvious that a person should need to work 40 hours a week their entire lives just to be able to afford a little wooden box to live in, food and clothing.
Anyway, like I said, capitalism is one of the most wasteful and destructive system ever devised. It is literally cancer on the Earth.
"It is reliably estimated that species extinctions now proceed at 1000 times their normal rate, and that up to 99% of the materials used in the US production process end up as waste within 6 weeks. For every ton of garbage, in turn, there are 5 tons of materials to produce it, and 25 tons extracted from nature to yield these materials.
But these facts are not connected across the fields of expertise which track them. As the earth is thus stripped and polluted by ever more unfettered global market operations, the market paradigm of value that leads governments does not factor into its calculus the countless life forms, habitats and systems which are thus extinguished and poisoned. When objections are raised, the followers of the paradigm that rules sternly warn that all is necessary ‘to keep the economy going’. Peoples increasingly observe that their life-ground is being devastated, but no ‘new discovery’ reports that every step of decision behind this process of life-destruction is taken to enact the global market programme."
At this stage of the global market system’s reproduction of transnational money sequences to unheard-of volumes and velocities of transaction and growth, a systematic and irreversible destruction of planetary life-organization emerges for the first time in history. If we consider the defining principles of carcinogenic invasion and eventual destruction of a life-host, and do not avoid or deny the symptom profile in evidence, we discern a carcinogenic pattern increasingly penetrating and spreading across civil and environmental life-organization.
There are seven defining properties of a cancer invasion which medical diagnosis recognizes at the level of the individual organism. These seven properties can now be recognized for the first time at the level of global life-organization as well. And this is the pathological core of our current disease condition.
That is, there is:
(1) an uncontrolled and unregulated reproduction and multiplication of an agent in a host body; that
(2) is not committed to any life function of its life-host; that
(3) aggressively and opportunistically appropriates nutriments and resources from its social and natural hosts in uninhibited growth and reproduction; that
(4) is not effectively recognized or responded to by the immune system of its hosts; that
(5) possesses the ability to transfer or to metastasize its growth and uncontrolled reproduction to sites across the host body; that
(6) progressively infiltrates and invades contiguous and distant sites of its life- hosts until it obstructs, damages and/or destroys successive organs of their life-systems; and that
(7) without effective immune-system recognition and response eventually destroys the host bodies it has invaded.
John McMurtry
"The essence of capitalism, its raison d'être, is not to build democracy, or help working people, or save the environment, or build homes for the homeless. Its goal is to convert nature into commodities and commodities into capital, to invest and accumulate, transmuting every part of the world into its own image for its own realization. The modern capitalist imperative is simply to create more money for idle investors by any means possible. This growth is often enabled by predation on the publicly-held resources that represents real value, thereby diminishing the community's ability to sustain itself in the long run. Forests are clear-cut; public utilities are privatized; social programs are gutted; and so on. The net result is that the quality of life for the vast majority of the world's citizens has declined." ~ Michael Parenti
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@1986Sane , dude, just do a Google search and a whole list of Thomas Sowell books and articles should come up. Here, I'll give you a list of claims that Thomas Sowell has made over the years that you can search for. I honestly don't know how you could possibly listen to that garbage.
▪ the Civil Rights Movement was a communist plot.
▪ social programs and financial aid for black people was a government conspiracy to keep African Americans enslaved.
▪ Compared Obama to Adolf Hitler.
▪ Tried to convince people that Obama was a socialist, even though it's quite clear from his political record that he is centre-right.
▪ Tries to convince people that socialism and fascism are identical, even though those ideologies are on the opposite end of the political spectrum.
▪ says it's a myth that capitalism makes the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
▪ Capitalism is not inherently unstable: it wasn't responsible the Great Depression in any way, shape or form.
▪ Corporations don't earn obscene profits at the expense of consumers and workers.
▪ Corporations don't engage in predatory pricing, misleading advertising, and other deviations from the market ideal.
▪ Unrestrained capitalism doesn't lead to environmental destruction.
▪ Mergers and acquisitions have not concentrated economic and political power in fewer hands.
▪ Capitalism doesn't lead to globalism, which destroys culture and exacerbates inequality.
▪ Says government regulations are not necessary under capitalism to protect workers and consumers.
▪ claims that the free market will provide Fair wages and full employment for everyone, no government intervention needed.
▪ says there's absolutely no correlation between capitalism racism and segregation.
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@statistdestroyer , you want me to learn economics? Well I'm trying. I still haven't grasped your last economic lesson. tell me again how two people trading with one another is a form of wealth creation. 😀 I'm still not clear on that. So if someone trades a dollar for a dollar, somehow that creates wealth? If I trade my radio for your TV, wealth was created? You're a genius! So intelligent.
Question: How do you create wealth without work?
Statist Destroyer (aka James Adams):
There are many ways to create wealth without labour.
1. Wealth is in knowledge.
2. Wealth is created through saving time on something.
3. Wealth is created through exchange when one person values the thing they want more than the thing they give up.
None of those are examples of wealth creation. you moron. 😀
Let's look at some of your other asinine comments:
▪ James Adams:
"profits are not extracted from labour."
Yes they are. The less workers get paid the more profits go to the owners. You claim to have a master's degree in accounting. Then you should know in economics 101 you learn that profits are extracted from the four main factors of production which are: land, labour, capital and Entrepreneurship.
▪ James Adams:
"service-sector jobs that replaced industrial jobs (lost as a consequence of NAFTA) are actually higher-paying and better for workers"
▪ James Adams:
"Business is not robbing the poor. The state is."
▪ James Adams:
"Amazon workers are not getting low wages either, dumbass."
▪ James Adams:
"Imperialism has nothing to do with capitalism."
▪ James Adams:
"There is no theft of labor value. Workers always get paid the "full value of their labor" because that value is what they exchange for (subjective value) not some made up nonsense. Ponder that for a while."
▪ James Adams:
" capitalism does not cause extreme inequality. And you have no evidence that it does!"
Dude, the two richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population While most Americans can no longer afford a family on a single income. The 8 richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population while 80% of the 7 billion people on the planet subsist on $10 a day or less. Yeah, capitalism causes massive inequality. This is another example of you not being able to differentiate between facts and assertions.
▪ James Adams:
" capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist."
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or any inequality."
Of course capitalism causes depression. Everyone knows that capitalism is extremely unstable. Economic downturn lead to depression, suicide, increases in substance abuse, mental disorders, Etc.
USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005 Jun;62(6):617-27.)
Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~
cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact_sheet
The ‘Merva-Fowles’ study, done at the University of Utah in the 1990s, found powerful connections between unemployment and crime. They based their research on 30 major metropolitan areas with a total population of over 80 million.
A 1% rise in unemployment resulted in:
a 6.7% increase in Homicides;
a 3.4 % increase in violent crimes;
a 2.4 % increase in property crime.
During the period from 1990 to 1992, this translated into:
1459 additional Homicides;
62,607 additional violent crimes;
223,500 additional property crimes.
▪ James Adams:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility.
You don't understand how social Mobility is calculated.
~ Global Social Mobility Index - the World Economic Forum
▪ James Adams:
" I have definitely study the topics of socialism more than you have."
▪ James Adams:
"of course a free market requires capitalism. Capitalism is not at all antithetical to free markets."
You don't understand that markets predate capitalism by thousands of years or that markets have never been free under capitalism.
▪ James Adams:
"there's nothing wrong with absolute capitalism"
What is that even supposed to mean? There's nothing wrong with pure, unregulated capitalism? No, of course corporations don't need to be regulated because they never endanger workers, exploit workers, poison the environment, produce dangerous products, would never exploit child labour.
▪ James Adams:
"You can only have a free market under capitalism."
Wow! 😃
▪ James Adams:
"fascism is not right-wing, dumbass. The fascists used collectivism. State ownership. That is socialism by definition. Quit spamming when you can't even get basic definitions right."
▪ James Adams:
"capitalist companies never extract wealth from labour. Quit lying about it."
Cites Koch brother-funded 'Foundation for Economic Education'! aka 'FEE'
▪ James Adams:
"fascism is not a right-wing ideology. It's on the left!"
▪ James Adams:
"Joe Biden is not right wing! He's a leftist! He is center-left!"
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism is a bottom-up system of organizations. Socialism is top-down."
▪ James Adams:
"under capitalism workers always get paid the full value of their labour."
▪ James Adams:
"workers are never exploited under capitalism."
▪ James Adams:
" feudalism is not an oligarchy, because it's not defined by that word!" (this is a direct quote.)
This is the only quote that isn't verbatim:
"feudalism doesn't fall under the oligarchy category. They had a caste system."
There was simply too much nonsense for me copy it all. But the context is correct. You claimed that feudalism does not fall under the category of an oligarchy. 😀
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@statistdestroyer , I haven't disappeared. I just get tired of listening to your nonsense. 😀 why do you think I don't talk to you on Skype anymore? You bore me to death. You're incapable of learning anything. You keep saying the same things over and over again.
How do you create wealth without work?
Statist Destroyer (aka James Adams):
There are many ways to create wealth without labour.
1. Wealth is in knowledge.
2. Wealth is created through saving time on something.
3. Wealth is created through exchange when one person values the thing they want more than the thing they give up.
None of those are examples of wealth creation. you moron. 😀
Let's look at some of your other asinine comments:
▪ James Adams:
"profits are not extracted from labour."
Yes they are. The less workers get paid the more profits go to the owners. You claim to have a master's degree in accounting. Then you should know in economics 101 you learn that profits are extracted from the four main factors of production which are: land, labour, capital and Entrepreneurship.
▪ James Adams:
"service-sector jobs that replaced industrial jobs (lost as a consequence of NAFTA) are actually higher-paying and better for workers"
▪ James Adams:
"Business is not robbing the poor. The state is."
▪ James Adams:
"Amazon workers are not getting low wages either, dumbass."
▪ James Adams:
"Imperialism has nothing to do with capitalism."
▪ James Adams:
"There is no theft of labor value. Workers always get paid the "full value of their labor" because that value is what they exchange for (subjective value) not some made up nonsense. Ponder that for a while."
▪ James Adams:
" capitalism does not cause extreme inequality. And you have no evidence that it does!"
Dude, the two richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population While most Americans can no longer afford a family on a single income. The 8 richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population while 80% of the 7 billion people on the planet subsist on $10 a day or less. Yeah, capitalism causes massive inequality. This is another example of you not being able to differentiate between facts and assertions.
▪ James Adams:
" capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist."
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or any inequality."
Of course capitalism causes depression. Everyone knows that capitalism is extremely unstable. Economic downturn lead to depression, suicide, increases in substance abuse, mental disorders, Etc.
USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005 Jun;62(6):617-27.)
Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~
cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact_sheet
The ‘Merva-Fowles’ study, done at the University of Utah in the 1990s, found powerful connections between unemployment and crime. They based their research on 30 major metropolitan areas with a total population of over 80 million.
A 1% rise in unemployment resulted in:
a 6.7% increase in Homicides;
a 3.4 % increase in violent crimes;
a 2.4 % increase in property crime.
During the period from 1990 to 1992, this translated into:
1459 additional Homicides;
62,607 additional violent crimes;
223,500 additional property crimes.
▪ James Adams:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility.
You don't understand how social Mobility is calculated.
~ Global Social Mobility Index - the World Economic Forum
▪ James Adams:
" I have definitely study the topics of socialism more than you have."
▪ James Adams:
"of course a free market requires capitalism. Capitalism is not at all antithetical to free markets."
You don't understand that markets predate capitalism by thousands of years or that markets have never been free under capitalism.
▪ James Adams:
"there's nothing wrong with absolute capitalism"
What is that even supposed to mean? There's nothing wrong with pure, unregulated capitalism? No, of course corporations don't need to be regulated because they never endanger workers, exploit workers, poison the environment, produce dangerous products, would never exploit child labour.
▪ James Adams:
"You can only have a free market under capitalism."
Wow! 😃
▪ James Adams:
"fascism is not right-wing, dumbass. The fascists used collectivism. State ownership. That is socialism by definition. Quit spamming when you can't even get basic definitions right."
▪ James Adams:
"capitalist companies never extract wealth from labour. Quit lying about it."
Cites Koch brother-funded 'Foundation for Economic Education'! aka 'FEE'
▪ James Adams:
"fascism is not a right-wing ideology. It's on the left!"
▪ James Adams:
"Joe Biden is not right wing! He's a leftist! He is center-left!"
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism is a bottom-up system of organizations. Socialism is top-down."
▪ James Adams:
"under capitalism workers always get paid the full value of their labour."
▪ James Adams:
"workers are never exploited under capitalism."
▪ James Adams:
" feudalism is not an oligarchy, because it's not defined by that word!" (this is a direct quote.)
This is the only quote that isn't verbatim:
"feudalism doesn't fall under the oligarchy category. They had a caste system."
There was simply too much nonsense for me copy it all. But the context is correct. You claimed that feudalism does not fall under the category of an oligarchy. 😀
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@ExPwner , oh my god. You simply are not capable of comprehending what has been said. You don't understand that there has to be a balance between purchasing power and the goods/ services and circulation? Jobs are maintained through consumption. If consumption slows, people get laid off and can't consume. Yeah, you took economics 101. Couldn't be more obvious
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
1
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1
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@ExPwner there's nothing to answer. You haven't made any arguments. You can't argue against simple facts. When the workers on the company then they get all of the wealth. When they work for someone else, they don't. You saying over and over again that value is subjective or that labor doesn't create all value, that has absolutely nothing to do with the argument. Both worker owned companies and privately owned companies to have capital. Nothing you've said makes any sense. 😀 give it up. Your comprehension abilities are just too weak. What I'm saying is beyond your comprehension.
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
1
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1
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@ExPwner , no, you haven't made a single solitary argument. Everything you said is utter nonsense and has no relevance to the argument. When the workers on the company then they get all of the wealth and they get to make the rules. That has absolutely nothing to do with subjectivity and it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Capital has value. Now do you actually have anything of relevance to say at all? Would you care to attempt to make some kind of argument?
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
1
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@ExPwner , dude, you sound like a complete nut.
When the workers own the company then they get the wealth and they get to make the rules. They want to own the capital for the same reason that rich people want to own the capital. Because it provides wealth and power. This is not rocket science.
Now do you actually have an argument or not?
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
1
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@ExPwner , dude, the debate doesn't have anything to do with Nazis or any of the other garbage that you brought up. You just keep deflecting. If you think the Nazis were a type of socialist, that's fine. I'm not going to argue history with you. If you don't know the difference between right and left, that's your problem. It's not my job to explain it to you. I've got much better things got to do with my time.
I'm here to argue the topics discussed in the debate. Which mode of production provides more equality, freedom and prosperity for workers.
Freedom: obviously the workers are going to have more freedom when they own the company. When you work at a capitalist company you have to do you're told. The boss can even tell you what you have to wear and when and how long you get to go to the washroom.
Prosperity: when the workers on the company then they get all of the wealth. That very basic Point has absolutely nothing to do with capital or subjectivity.
Equality: obviously when workers on the company they're going to have more equality with equal voting power compared to having no voting power at all!
Now what any of that has to do with Nazis or fascism, I have no idea. That doesn't have anything to do with subjectivity or capital.
Now stop deflecting and make an argument if you can. 😀
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
1
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1
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@ExPwner , oh my god! I didn't say all the wealth comes from labor. That's why workers want to own their own company. If all wealth came from labor then they wouldn't need to own and control the means of production. You're not making any sense. Are you like one of those special needs persons? I have a question for you. If you can't read basic English how could you possibly have a high school diploma? You say you have a master's degree in accounting? Dude, please. :-)
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
1
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1
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1
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1
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@ExPwner , that's right, workers cannot get the full value of their labor unless they actually own their own tools. Because when workers work for someone else, not only does their labor have to cover the cost of the investment and the tools and the maintenance, it also has to cover the profit for the capitalist.
Just like if you live in an apartment building. If you own the building, then your labor just has to cover the cost of the building, the fridge, the stove, the maintenance, etc. But if you live in a private apartment building that someone else owns, your labor still has to cover all of those things. On top of having to pay for all of those things you also have to pay for the landlord and his lifestyle. You have any idea how many people now have to work 3 weeks out of the month just to make enough to cover their rent? Going to work I'm working for free. The landlord gets those paychecks instead of you.
That's why workers want to own their own capital. That way they don't have to waste extra years from their life producing wealth for someone else.
I know all of these things are way too complicated for you to comprehend. I'm really really sorry for you. What can I say.
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
1
-
@ExPwner , you still haven't made an argument. Nothing you've said has anything to do with the argument or the facts.
Again, the fact is trees do not turn themselves into houses.
The fact is companies such as Walmart and Amazon cannot exist without wage labor.
It's a fact that when workers work for someone else they do not get all of the wealth and they do not get to make the rules. But when they do own their own company, they do get all of the wealth and they do get to make the rules. This is a fact. Not an opinion.
Now I'm going to ask you for the millionth time. Do you have an argument or not? Do you have anything relevant to say or not?
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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@ExPwner , yes I have.
Which mode of production provides more equality, freedom and prosperity for workers and communities? Obviously worker and community ownership does. Just like private ownership of the means of production provides more freedom and prosperity for people such as Jeff bezos, Bill gates, etc. Not exactly rocket science.
You need to learn what an argument is. You need to learn the difference between fact and opinion. 😀
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now. The goal of a capitalist company is to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by getting workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible and charging as much as possible for goods and services. Corporations are now making record profits because they are increasing prices as much as they can. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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Most people are not happy being employees. Statistically speaking, when workers own their own companies and factories, they are happier, more productive, more creative, they take fewer sick days, there's less incidence of mental illness, depression, substance abuse, suicide, Etc.
Who said employers shouldn't be able to decide how much they pay their employees? Yeah, when you own the business you can pay your employees whatever you want to. You can do whatever you want with the business. No one said otherwise.
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@ExPwner ,
James Adams, top quotes....
▪ James adams: "Profits don't cause inflation you moron. How can you possibly be this economically illiterate? Prices are not set by profits. They are set by Supply and demand! This is econ 101."
Doesn't have a clue how increasing prices also increases profits. Doesn't understand that when prices rise faster than wages, we are actually earning less money. And that means we're getting poorer under capitalism. Inflation has been increasing faster than wages for a very long time now.
▪ James Adams: "Capitalism is not a class system you fool! Capitalism does not require wage labour! Quit spamming lies. Reported again for spam." Yeah, sure, capitalism doesn't create a working class/ owning class dichotomy where a very small minority of wealthy people own most of the capital on the planet, which enables them to get most of the wealth produced by labor. It also gives them the power to have most of the production in countries such as china.
▪ James Adams:
"Michael J. Mappin, capitalism does not 'cause massive inequality' either. Factually socialist economies are less equal than their more capitalist counterparts. You're not entitled to your own set of facts just because you're a propagandist." Yeah, capitalism doesn't cause any quality. We only have a situation where the richest 1%, now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 91% of the American population. The two richest people, all by themselves, have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. And the eight richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the Earth's population. 😀
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism does not cause depression or inequality." Yeah, you're right. Americans are number one for depression because they have so much freedom. 😀
>>>> USA #1 for mental disorders. about 1 in 4 adults. about 60 million people.
~ (Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005.)
>>>> Published studies report that about 25% of all U.S. adults have a mental illness and that nearly 50% of U.S. adults will develop at least one mental illness during their lifetime.
~ cdc gov - mentalhealthsurveillance-fact sheet
>>>> The United States, the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, has a larger percentage of low-income workers than any other developed nation. ~ The Wall Street Journal
>>>>>> As of 2020, According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
>>>> 30% of the low-wage workers live below 150% of the federal poverty line, or $36,000 per year for a family of four. 26% receive safety net assistance such as food stamps, welfare benefits, federal housing assistance, and other programs, which have been cut. ~ Time Magazine
No, that wouldn't cause people to be depressed.
You see, that's why social mobility in the United States is so low! Rather than more people getting access to critical Services over time, services are being cut! You don't even know how social Mobility works. Nimrod.
▪ James Adams regarding the social Mobility index:
" your debunked "index" doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility." How do you think social Mobility is calculated? It's based on a person's ability to access those basic services.
>>>>> The United States comes in at number 27 on the social Mobility index! That's even worse than Portugal and Lithuania!
▪ Here's an example of Mr Adams reading comprehension. 😃
https://youtube.com/shorts/jxPulUGuBHU?feature=share
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@chucklee9291 , capitalism does not breed economic freedom. How could you possibly make such a statement? Seriously? Capitalism is based on exploitation. It is literally the economic system of parasites. It's a two-class system which is a modern form of slavery.
Under the capitalist system most of the capital it's owned by the richest members of society, therefore they get most of the wealth produced by labour. Do you have any idea how crazy that is? Also, they get to make most of the decisions in regard what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced, how much workers get paid, Etc. That's why most things are made in China and why wages are so low. Saying that economic feudalism breeds Freedom, that justifies logic and reason. You should get most of the wealth produced by your labour, not someone else. You shouldn't have to pay extra money to some capitalist owner every time you buy toilet paper or get a blood test.
If you are truly interested in free markets and people being rewarded for hard work, then you would be anti-capitalist and pro-socialist. Socialism it's about freedom. Socialism is the freedom to actually own the product of your labour. If you don't own the product of your labour, it's someone else does, then you are basically nothing more than human livestock.
For example, if a farmer give a cow bovine growth hormone in order to double milk production, does the cow get to work half as many hours? Does the cow end up with twice the amount of wealth? No. All of that milk belongs to the farmer. That's why even though labor-saving technology has more than tripled the production output of Labor, people still have to work 40 hours a week. Almost everything produced by Labour under the capitalist system belongs to someone else.
Capitalism does not read economic freedom. It does provide extreme freedom for a small minority at the expense of the vast majority, but so did slavery in the Antebellum South.
Would you really call this freedom?
https://youtu.be/4xqouhMCJBI
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@feelthebern3783 , you're arguing with an anarcho-capitalist. For over 2 years he's been spamming Richard Wolf videos with the following prageru talking points:
▪ James Adams: labour absolutely does not add any value because value is subjective.
@ James: because value is subjective it doesn't add any value? Of course labour adds value. Does an assembled iPod not have more value than one that's not assembled?
James Adams: labour does not add value, because value does not come from labour but from people's subjective preferences.
@ James: okay, but that doesn't negate the fact that an assembled product has more value than one that's not.
James Adams:
You again display nothing but economic idiocy. Are assembled mud pies more valuable than unassembled ones?
@ James: mud pies!? did I say everything that's produced by labour has value? 😃
▪ James Adams:
"That is a lie! 40 million Americans do not require food stamps in order to get enough to eat. 40 million is the number of people in total who qualify and receive Food Stamps. I have repeatedly corrected you do on this."
▪ James Adams:
"Workers do not get anything more FOR THEIR LABOUR when they are the owners. That is a lie! They get more money FOR THEIR CAPITAL you absolute clown."
▪ James Adams:
"Democracy is cringe garbage."
▪ James Adams:
"Capitalism does not require a government moron. Quit projecting."
Government moron? 😀 maybe you should run for office?
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism is not a two class system! Many workers own stock, dumass!"
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism is a bottom-up system because the economy is not centrally planned."
▪ James Adams:
"service-sector jobs that replaced industrial jobs (lost as a consequence of NAFTA) are actually higher-paying and better for workers"
▪ James Adams:
" the social Mobility index doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility."
▪ James Adams:
"Business is not robbing the poor. The state is."
▪ James Adams:
"Amazon workers are not getting low wages either, dumbass."
▪ James Adams:
"profits are not extracted from labour."
▪ James Adams:
"Imperialism has nothing to do with capitalism."
▪ James Adams:
"There is no theft of labor value. Workers always get paid the "full value of their labor because that value is what they exchange for (subjective value) not some made up nonsense. Ponder that for a while."
▪ James Adams:
" capitalism does not cause extreme inequality. And you have no evidence that it does!"
Yeah, there's no extreme difference between the poor and the rich. no evidence..😀 not at all! Only that the two richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. The richest 1% has almost as much wealth as the poorest 91% of the American population. Simultaneously, going back at least as far as 2015, 40 million Americans use food stamps in order to get enough to eat. That's more people than the entire population of Canada! No, no extreme inequality there. 😀 you're mr. perspicacity incarnate.
▪ James Adams:
"There is no such thing as worker exploitation because that Marxist nonsense was refuted by Bohm Bawerk.
Get an education!"
▪ Q: How do you create wealth in the economy without labour?
James Adams:
"There are many ways to create wealth without labour:
1. Wealth is in knowledge.
2. Wealth is created through saving time on something.
3. Wealth is created through exchange when one person values the thing they want more than the thing they give up.
4. Apples.
5. Wine."
▪ James Adams:
" I am very intelligent. I have a master's degree in accounting."
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@sethtwc , well of course people don't get paid fairly when they work as employees at capitalist companies. The goal is to maximize profit. That means getting the workers to produce as much as possible while paying them as little as possible. But that's not conducive to a free-market or thriving economy because you end up with a situation where the workers can't actually afford all the goods and services they're producing. One of the central goals of Economics is to achieve equilibrium. Capitalism violates that very basic principle. You obviously can't have an economic system where production output increases at a greater rate than income. That's why there's so much debt under capitalism. Jobs are tied to consumption. If consumption slows, people get laid off and can't consume. Capitalism is a debt based system.
However, socialism doesn't have that problem. That's because workers get paid the full value of their labour. If they produced $70,000 worth of wealth, they now have $70,000 worth of purchasing power. Balance is maintained.
Of course socialism works. When the workers own their own companies and factories, they get to make the decisions in regards to what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced, excetera. And that's how it should be. Worker-owned companies are tied to the community. The workers don't have to worry about being forced to work in unsafe working conditions. They don't have to worry about being forced to pollute their own environment. They don't have to worry about having their wages cut. They don't have to worry about production being moved to a different country.
https://youtu.be/-VdbFzwe8fQ
socialism is economic democracy. Capitalism is economic feudalism. Under capitalism most of the capital ends up being owned by the richest members of society. Therefore they get most of the wealth produced by labour. They also get to make most of the decisions in regards to what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced, how much workers get paid. That's what we call a plutocracy. Rule by money. Whoever controls the capital also controls the market. Whoever controls the market also controls the government. And of course the capitalists to use the government to minimize risks and increase their profits.
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@lepidoptera9337 , no, not all forms of socialism involve government ownership.
The core concept of socialism is worker and Community ownership. Direct worker ownership predates State socialism. The idea of indirect ownership through the government, public ownership, that came at a later time in history. That's not my opinion. That's a fact.
Socialism:
1. "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods."
~ Merriam-Webster Dictionary
• "Socialism is an economic and political system. It is an economic theory of social organization. It states that the means of making, moving, and trading wealth should be owned or controlled by the workers. This means the money made belongs to the workers who make the products, instead of groups of private owners. People who agree with this type of system are called socialists." ~
Durlauf, Steven N.; E. Blume, Lawrence. "socialism". DICTIONARY OF ECONOMICS. Palgrave Macmillan 2013.
• "Socialism is a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production. It includes the political theories and movements associated with such systems. Social ownership can be public, collective, cooperative, or of equity."
~ O'Hara, Phillip (2003). Encyclopedia of Political Economy, Volume 2. Routledge. p. 71. ISBN 978-0-415-24187-8. In order of increasing decentralisation (at least) three forms of socialised ownership can be distinguished: state-owned firms, employee-owned (or socially) owned firms, and citizen ownership of equity.
▪︎ Gregory, Paul R.; Stuart, Robert C. (2003). Comparing Economic Systems in the Twenty-First Century. Socialism: "It is an economic system that combines social ownership of capital with market allocation of capital." https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/16915671?q&versionId=19853882
• (Beaud 2001: 41) , History of Capitalism https://archive.org/details/historyofcapital00mich
• capitalism ( history/analysis) by Paul Bowles https://tinyurl.com/y6xqz7cw
• O'Hara, Phillip (September 2000). Encyclopedia of Political Economy, Volume2. Routledge. . ISBN 978-0415241878.
▪︎ Buchanan, Alan E. (1985). Ethics, Efficiency and the Market. Oxford University Press US. pp. 104–105. ISBN 978-0-8476-7396-4. https://global.oup.com/academic/product/ethics-efficiency-and-the-market-9780198285335
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@sethtwc , it's really important to be able to differentiate between State socialism (SOEs) and non-state socialism (WSDEs). Richard Wolff is arguing in favour of workers self-directed Enterprises. Not state-owned Enterprises.
There are many institutional forms of public and social ownership. For example,
>>> Forms of social production:
• State-owned Enterprises (SOEs)
corporations are owned directly by a government (National or sub-national), and operate according to a mandate that may include social criteria.
In advanced capitalist countries many SOEs have been privatized under neoliberalism. But many still operate successfully (in diverse Industries including manufacturing, Communications, Transportation, utilities, and resources), accounting for up to 5% of total GDP in some OCED countries. Examples of successful wholly or partially -owned SOEs include Volkswagen (Germany), State Oil (Norway), EDF group (France), and Metsahalltus (Finland). In many developing and former communist countries (including China, Brazil, Russia and Vietnam) SOEs are much more important.
• producer cooperatives.
A producer Co-operative is owned collectively and equally by the people who work in it, and is usually governed according to "one person, one vote."
Cooperatives are one of the most common forms of nonprofit Enterprises. There are hundreds of thousands of cooperatives in the world; the United Nations estimates that half the world's population are members or customers of a Cooperative. Examples of successful producer cooperatives include Fonterra (New Zealand's largest Dairy producer), the ReWe Group (a major tourism company in Germany), Huawei (a giant Chinese electronics manufacturer, 99% owned by its workers), and Japan's Farm sector where over 90% of the Farmers belong to cooperatives). Strong networks of producer cooperatives are the dominant economic structure in Spain's Mondragon region and Italy's Emilia-Romagna region.
• Consumer Cooperatives.
A consumer Cooperative is owned collectively and equally by the people who buy its products, and is usually governed according to "one person, one vote."
Many retail cooperatives are formed to help consumers obtain lower prices and challenge the market power of private retailers. In Denmark over one-third of all retail sales are conducted through cooperatives. The E.Leclerc Cooperative operates over 500 supermarkets in France. Canada's Mountain Equipment Co-op runs the country's largest retail Network for outdoor recreation products.
• Recovered companies.
Workers in a bankrupt company effectively expropriate the Enterprise and attempt to keep it in business.
In the years after the 2001 financial crisis in Argentina, over 200 bankrupt factories were taken over by their workers, who continue to operate them (with some government support for refinancing). 2013 law in Bolivia gives workers the explicit legal authority to take over filled firms.
• Community Trusts.
A Community Trust is a non-profit Corporation, usually exempt from normal business taxes, created to purchase and development land, housing, and other Community Asset.
There are over 250 Community Land Trust operating in the US, with the explicit mission to undertake affordable housing develop, Environmental Conservation, and local job creation on lands that they own. Governance is based on a shared model that includes lessees and elected local representatives.
• Benefit corporations.
A benefit Corporation is owned by private shareholders, but obliged by its Charter to pursue social and environmental goals in addition to profit.
"B Lab" is an association which publishes an annual Global ranking of successful benefit corporations. Recent recognized firms include Echele! a tu casa (a benefit corporation based in Mexico City which develops low-cost housing for residents of poor neighborhoods), and Give Something Back (a major office supply company in California with a Community Development mandate).
• Community and nonprofit Enterprises.
Jobs in especially hard-hit regions and communities can be created by nonprofit Community Development agencies, drawing on local resources including training, housing and alternative Finance.
Community Economic Development (CED) is an "up by the bootstraps" effort to mobilize local resources that would otherwise idle, providing local Services, developing infrastructure, and providing unemployed people with job experience and training. Decentralized CED initiatives can be important in many developing economies, and in poor or remote regions of developed countries. Some entire communities have been founded and sustained on Cooperative principles in many countries.
>>>> Forms of socialized Finance:
• public banks.
Public banks are owned by national or sub-national levels of government; they take deposits, issue loans ( create credit), and facilitate financial transactions.
Public banking is widespread in many parts of the world. Countries in which publicly- owned banks play a major role include Japan (the JapanPost Bank is the largest Savings Bank in the world), Germany (with two parallel networks of public Banks: Sparkassen and Landesbanken), and China ( where are the state-owned banking system helped China completely avoid the 2008 - 09 World recession).
• Credit unions and Cooperative Banks.
Credit unions and other Cooperative banks are owned by their members, and govern according to "one person, one vote."
there are at least 60,000 credit unions and Cooperative banks in the world, with trillions of dollars in Combined assets; they are the most developed and Powerful form of cooperative enterprise. Large credit unions are important Financial players in many countries, including: Netherlands (the huge Rabobank has 60,000 employees and 750 billion in assets), and France (three major cooperative bank federations account for almost half of all consumer banking), Sweden (the JAK Bank makes loans without charging interest at all), and Canada (the Desjardins credit union movement is the largest financial institution in Quebec).
• Investment and development Banks.
Publicly-owned investment Banks specialize in targeted lending and investing in key companies (including private companies)with strategic economic importance.
State-owned investment or development Banks play an important role in sector development policy and many countries, including France, the Nordic countries, Japan, and Brazil. Singapore's Temasek Holdings was established to foster broad economic and industrial development there; it partially owns over 50 companies, and is consistently profitable.
• Social investment funds and Foundations.
These Financial funds are mandated to make investments in various firms or social Enterprises, in accordance with a broader social man, while still learning and adequate or Target rate of return.
The solidarity fund is a 10 billion investment fund established by the Quebec Federation of Labor in Canada to invest in businesses which contribute to Quebec's economic and social development. RSF social Finance is a non-profit financial institution , (founded in 1936) focus on lending to nonprofit and social Enterprises in the US. Oxfam UK has started an Enterprise Development Program to channel financial investments to social enterprises in 20 developing countries. Alaska Native Corporations are collectively owned entities founded with Native resource revenues, to invest in a range of businesses and development projects; their collective revenues exceed 10 billion per year.
• Sovereign wealth.
These funds are owned by a national government, funded with state revenues (often from resource production); they invest in strategic businesses and / or generate future investment income to fund public pensions and other public programs.
Sovereign wealth has grown rapidly in recent years, and now totals over US$ 5 trillion in Investments. Petroleum producing countries have been most aggressive in creating these funds (to save nonrenewable wealth for future uses), but some non-petroleum countries have established Sovereign funds as well (such as Korea, China and Singapore). The largest fund is Norway's government pension fund, with assets approaching US$ 1 trillion; it single-handedly owns about 2% of All European corporate shares.
• Microcredit.
Microlending is undertaken on a nonprofit or cost-recovery basis, with a focus on small loans to households and small producers (usually in developing countries or poor neighborhoods).
The most famous microcredit institution is the Grameen Bank in Bangladesh, owned cooperatively by its Borrowers; it extends small low interest loans (mostly to women) through a participatory loan management system ( in which groups of borrowers collectively determine who receives new loans, and collectively ensure the loans are repaid). Similar systems have been introduced in other poor countries, and in some regions or neighborhoods of rich countries.
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@sethtwc , once a person can differentiate between State and non-state socialism, that it's important to look at hard empirical data so that we can make an informed decision.
They're all kinds of studies on the subject. I'll give a few examples.
Study number 1:
Virginie Perotin's research** which looked at two decades worth of international data, shows that worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses.
"The idea that employees can run their own firms might sound unrealistic to some. This study looks at international data on worker-owned and run businesses in Europe, the US and Latin America and compares them with conventional businesses. It also reviews international statistical studies on the firms’ productivity, survival, investment and responsiveness.
It finds that worker co-operatives represent a serious business alternative and bring significant benefits to their employees and to the economy. There are thousands of worker-run businesses in Europe, employing several hundred thousand people in a broad range of industries, from traditional manufacturing to the creative and high-tech industries.
Because worker co-operatives are owned and run by them, employees in worker-owned co-operatives have far more say in the business, from day-to-day concerns through to major strategic issues.
The largest study comparing the productivity of worker co-operatives with that of conventional businesses finds that in several industries, conventional companies would produce more with their current levels of employment and capital if they behaved like employee-owned firms.
When market conditions change worker cooperatives review wages first and keep employment more stable. In a downturn worker co-operatives drop wages rather than reducing their workforce. When business picks up they are ready to
respond and can make up for lost pay because employees enjoy a share of profit."
The main findings from the analysis and review are:
• Worker co-operatives are larger than conventional businesses and not necessarily less capital intensive.
• Worker co-operatives survive at least as long as other businesses and have more stable employment.
• Worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses, with staff working “better and smarter” and production organised more efficiently.
• Worker co-operatives retain a larger share of their profits than other business models.
• Executive and non-executive pay differentials are much narrower in worker co-operatives than other firms.
** "Virginie Pérotin is Professor of Economics at Leeds University Business School and specialises in the effects of firm ownership and governance on performance, worker co-operatives, employee ownership and profit sharing. Previous academic and research roles include positions at the International Labour Office, the London School of Economics and the Centre d’Etude des Revenus et des Coûts (CERC) in the French Prime Minister’s Office in Paris. Professor Pérotin has also acted as a consultant to the European Commission, World Bank and OECD on issues of profit-sharing, employee ownership and employee involvement schemes."
▪ Study number 2:
This study by The Democracy Collaborative found that in the US, worker cooperatives can increase worker incomes by 70-80%, and that they can grow 2% faster a year than other businesses. This data also showed that worker coops have 9-19% greater levels of productivity, 45% lower turnover rates, and are 30% less likely to fail in the first few years of operation!
▪ Study number 3:
This study of worker cooperatives in Italy, the UK, and France found “positive” relationships with productivity. It also found that worker cooperatives do not become less productive as they get larger. One 1995 study of worker cooperatives in the timber industry in Washington, USA found that “co-ops are more efficient than the principal conventional firms by between 6 and 14 percent”.
▪ Study number 4:
An in-depth study of the Mondragon Corporation released today (5 April 2017) reveals how a large global business thrives because it’s owned by its workers, caps the gap between the highest and lowest paid, and has built an ecosystem around itself.
Now you compare that with capitalist Enterprises where where the pay disparity between the top and the bottom is as high as 312 times!
CEOs and shareholders do not Work 312 times harder then the actual workers themselves. These disparities only exist in dictatorial capitalist companies where workers have no control. And that's why in Flint Michigan the workers at the Ford Motor Company plant we're forced to poison their own water supply. It's why they had no choice when production was moved offshore. Those kind of problems do not exist or happen in workplace democracies. /business/2018/aug/16/ceo-versus-worker-wage-american-companies-pay-gap-study-2018
▪ Study number 5: The Whitehall study found that workers at the bottom of the social ladder had greater concentrations of stress hormones than their counterparts in higher managerial positions.
In contrast, a survey carried out by The Anxiety Disorder Association of America, in 2006, found that workers were far less stressed and anxious when they had more of a say over their own work.
adaa.org/workplace-stress-anxiety-disorders-survey
▪︎ Worldwide, cooperatives represent well over $3 trillion in turnover, 12.6 million in employment, and over a billion people in total membership.
w w w .un.org/esa/socdev/documents/2014/coopsegm/grace .pdf
▪︎ In the United States the cooperative sector represents over $500 billion in revenues and employs about two million people
/reic.uwcc.wisc.edu/sites/all/REIC_FINAL.pdf
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@ExPwner , all the person has to do is look at your comments to know that you're an uneducated person. Just to give a few examples,
▪ James Adams:
"Workers do not get anything more FOR THEIR LABOUR when they are the owners. That is a lie! They get more money FOR THEIR CAPITAL you absolute clown."
@James Adams , yeah, if you have a machine that can quadruple the output of your labour, then obviously your labour is going to be more valuable. 😃 you can now do 4 hours worth of work in one hour. That's obviously a lot more value for your labour. LOL
James Adams:
"You just keep repeating the nonsense that I debunked. What is wrong with your reading comprehension?"
@James Adams , obviously you're the one that has a problem with reading comprehension. Obviously if you can do three times the amount of work in one hour, your work is going to be more valuable. You now have three times the product you can sell. That means three times the amount of money. That means your labours is worth three times as much.
▪ James Adams:
"Democracy is cringe garbage."
▪ James Adams:
"Capitalism does not require a government moron. Quit projecting."
Government moron? 😀 maybe you should run for office?
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism is not a two class system! Many workers own stock, dumass!"
▪ James Adams:
"capitalism is a bottom-up system because the economy is not centrally planned."
▪ James Adams:
"service-sector jobs that replaced industrial jobs (lost as a consequence of NAFTA) are actually higher-paying and better for workers"
▪ James Adams:
" the social Mobility index doesn't measure social Mobility. Health, education, technology access.... all completely irrelevant in actual measurement of social Mobility."
▪ James Adams:
"Business is not robbing the poor. The state is."
▪ James Adams:
"Amazon workers are not getting low wages either, dumbass."
▪ James Adams:
"profits are not extracted from labour."
▪ James Adams:
"Imperialism has nothing to do with capitalism."
▪ James Adams:
"There is no theft of labor value. Workers always get paid the "full value of their labor because that value is what they exchange for (subjective value) not some made up nonsense. Ponder that for a while."
▪ James Adams:
" capitalism does not cause extreme inequality. And you have no evidence that it does!"
Yeah, there's no extreme difference between the poor and the rich. no evidence..😀 not at all! Only that the two richest people have almost as much wealth as the poorest half of the American population. The richest 1% has almost as much wealth as the poorest 91% of the American population. Simultaneously, going back at least as far as 2015, 40 million Americans use food stamps in order to get enough to eat. That's more people than the entire population of Canada! No, no extreme inequality there. 😀 you're mr. perspicacity incarnate.
▪ James Adams:
"There is no such thing as worker exploitation because that Marxist nonsense was refuted by Bohm Bawerk.
Get an education!"
▪ Q: How do you create wealth in the economy without labour?
James Adams:
"There are many ways to create wealth without labour:
1. Wealth is in knowledge.
2. Wealth is created through saving time on something.
3. Wealth is created through exchange when one person values the thing they want more than the thing they give up.
4. Apples.
5. Wine."
▪ James Adams:
" I am very intelligent. I have a master's degree in accounting."
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Socialism is more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy because people get paid according to the contribution. They get the full value of their labour. If you produce $70,000 worth of product, you're now entitled to consume that much. But under capitalism, workers don't own the product of their labour. It doesn't matter if they produce $70,000 worth of product or 70 million. It All Belongs to someone else. That's why we're saving technology doesn't reduce working hours under the system. Capitalism drives wages down so low that most people have to work at least 40 hours a week in order to survive. The thing is, we no longer need to work that long in order to produce all the goods and services required by Society. We should have transitioned to a four hour work day a long time ago. But yeah, socialism is more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy because labor-saving technology reduces working hours while increasing prosperity for everyone. When the wealth is actually going to the workers instead of billionaires, those workers spend that money into the economy. That causes the economy to expand. But under capitalism the capitalists do everything they can to maximize profit by keeping wages as low as possible. That causes the market to contract. That's why they have to pump so much credit into the system. Capitalism is absolutely antithetic all to a free market. The market is only free for a very narrow portion of society. Most of the capital ends up being owned by the richest members. And they get most of the wealth produced by labour and they get to make most of the decisions in regards to what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced, how much workers get paid, Etc. That's why most things are made in China and why wages are so low. That's what we call a plutocracy. Plutocracies are not synonymous with Market freedom. Free markets require economic democracy. Capitalism is the exact opposite of economic democracy. Decision-making depends on how many shares you can afford. Therefore, someone like Bill Gates will always be able to out vote your average worker. And that's exactly what plutocracy means. Rule by money. That's why Adam Smith was anti-capitalist. He knew that the Invisible Hand of the market could only function properly in an economic environment.
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@emptyvessel3054 , the type of socialism that Richard Wolff is talking about is a bottom-up, democratic non-hierarchical system of organization. There is no one at the top with power over those underneath. That's why Richard Wolff is criticizing both state and capitalist systems of organization because they're both based on hierarchy. But when workers and communities own their own workplaces, then they have no need for government. Or very little government. Socialist companies are bottom-up and Democratic. Like this https://youtu.be/-VdbFzwe8fQ
I'm not sure why you don't think they would be an ally class if we had pure capitalism. Capitalism is like the Monopoly board game. The more Capital you have, the faster your wealth grows in relation to everyone else. Just the other day someone won 160 million dollars in the lottery.
That money is currently sitting in a bank account. He is getting 3% interest on that 60 million.
That comes to 1.8 million dollars a year.
That's $150,000 per month.
That's $35,000 per week.
that's $5,000 a day.
That's $200 an hour, 24 hours a day 7 days a week 52 weeks a year, for the rest of their life, until the day they die. and they will pass that privilege onto every child they have and every woman that they marry.
now let's look at Jeff Bezos. He has about 200 billion dollars now. So, hypothetically speaking, if he were to dump all of his Capital assets and just put that money into the bank account at 3% interest, he would be accumulating 6 billion dollars per year for doing absolutely nothing.
That's 500 million dollars a month.
That's a 115 million dollars per week.
That's 16 and 1/2 million dollars per day.
that's 685,000 per hour, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 52 weeks a year.
How long does it take you to use the washroom? Let's say it takes you 1 minute to take a dump. by the time Jeff Bezos takes a dump, he has an extra $12,000 in his bank account. 😃
where do you think that money comes from? Every dollar of that has to come from labour. Every time you take out a student loan, every time you buy toilet paper, a toothbrush, finance a house, a car, Etc. you have to pay some rich individual for that privilege. He gets to collect that amount of money without doing any work at all. And, unless he's actually capable of spending $600,000 an hour, with every passing hour, he'll be making more money than he did before.
But anyway, you're going to have concentrations of wealth and ownership under capitalism because when workers don't get paid the full value of their labour eventually consumption is going to slow. For example, a 50% of the wealth is going to owners instead of workers, the workers are only going to be able to afford 50% of what they produce. As soon as consumption slows, people get laid off and can't consume. They then have to compete with other unemployed workers and that drives the value of Labor down even further. So you end up with a situation where workers are producing more and more while rates of income are not keeping pace.
The only way to have equilibrium in the economy and Market is by making sure people get the full value of their labour. Purchasing power has to be balanced with production output. But if the workers get the full value of their labour, then there's no profit for the capitalists.
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@emptyvessel3054 , well, statistically speaking, worker cooperatives are more stable, more productive, they're better for workers and communities, Etc. And statistically speaking, workers are happier, more productive, more creative, they take fewer sick days, there's less incidence of depression, suicide, substance abuse, their relationship with their families are better and more meaningful. The workers are more connected to their community and Neighbors. There's data going back almost a hundred years! So we know exactly how well we're coronavirus perform compared to capitalist companies. There is a region in Europe where 44% of the GDP come from worker and community-owned companies. Even in the United States almost 60% of the country gets its electricity from worker-owned Electrical Cooperative. There's videos on YouTube of those workers giving testimony to what it's like actually working for one's Community rather than some capitalist Pig.
But yeah, the data is endless. My actions are dictated by reason, evidence and logic. I like hard empirical data.
▪ Study number 1:
The Whitehall study found that workers at the bottom of the social ladder had greater concentrations of stress hormones than their counterparts in higher managerial positions.
In contrast, a survey carried out by The Anxiety Disorder Association of America, in 2006, found that workers were far less stressed and anxious when they had more of a say over their own work.
adaa.org/workplace-stress-anxiety-disorders-survey
▪ Study number 2:
Virginie Perotin's research** which looked at two decades worth of international data, shows that worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses.
"The idea that employees can run their own firms might sound unrealistic to some. This study looks at international data on worker-owned and run businesses in Europe, the US and Latin America and compares them with conventional businesses. It also reviews international statistical studies on the firms’ productivity, survival, investment and responsiveness.
It finds that worker co-operatives represent a serious business alternative and bring significant benefits to their employees and to the economy. There are thousands of worker-run businesses in Europe, employing several hundred thousand people in a broad range of industries, from traditional manufacturing to the creative and high-tech industries.
Because worker co-operatives are owned and run by them, employees in worker-owned co-operatives have far more say in the business, from day-to-day concerns through to major strategic issues.
The largest study comparing the productivity of worker co-operatives with that of conventional businesses finds that in several industries, conventional companies would produce more with their current levels of employment and capital if they behaved like employee-owned firms.
When market conditions change worker cooperatives review wages first and keep employment more stable. In a downturn worker co-operatives drop wages rather than reducing their workforce. When business picks up they are ready to
respond and can make up for lost pay because employees enjoy a share of profit."
The main findings from the analysis and review are:
• Worker co-operatives are larger than conventional businesses and not necessarily less capital intensive.
• Worker co-operatives survive at least as long as other businesses and have more stable employment.
• Worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses, with staff working “better and smarter” and production organised more efficiently.
• Worker co-operatives retain a larger share of their profits than other business models.
• Executive and non-executive pay differentials are much narrower in worker co-operatives than other firms.
** "Virginie Pérotin is Professor of Economics at Leeds University Business School and specialises in the effects of firm ownership and governance on performance, worker co-operatives, employee ownership and profit sharing. Previous academic and research roles include positions at the International Labour Office, the London School of Economics and the Centre d’Etude des Revenus et des Coûts (CERC) in the French Prime Minister’s Office in Paris. Professor Pérotin has also acted as a consultant to the European Commission, World Bank and OECD on issues of profit-sharing, employee ownership and employee involvement schemes."
▪ Study number 3:
This study by The Democracy Collaborative found that in the US, worker cooperatives can increase worker incomes by 70-80%, and that they can grow 2% faster a year than other businesses. This data also showed that worker coops have 9-19% greater levels of productivity, 45% lower turnover rates, and are 30% less likely to fail in the first few years of operation!
▪ Study number 4:
This study of worker cooperatives in Italy, the UK, and France found “positive” relationships with productivity. It also found that worker cooperatives do not become less productive as they get larger. One 1995 study of worker cooperatives in the timber industry in Washington, USA found that “co-ops are more efficient than the principal conventional firms by between 6 and 14 percent”.
▪ Study number 5:
An in-depth study of the Mondragon Corporation released today (5 April 2017) reveals how a large global business thrives because it’s owned by its workers, caps the gap between the highest and lowest paid, and has built an ecosystem around itself.
Now you compare that with capitalist Enterprises where where the pay disparity between the top and the bottom is as high as 312 times!
CEOs and shareholders do not Work 312 times harder then the actual workers themselves. These disparities only exist in dictatorial capitalist companies where workers have no control. And that's why in Flint Michigan the workers at the Ford Motor Company plant we're forced to poison their own water supply. It's why they had no choice when production was moved offshore. Those kind of problems do not exist or happen in workplace democracies. /business/2018/aug/16/ceo-versus-worker-wage-american-companies-pay-gap-study-2018
▪︎ Worldwide, cooperatives represent well over $3 trillion in turnover, 12.6 million in employment, and over a billion people in total membership.
w w w .un.org/esa/socdev/documents/2014/coopsegm/grace .pdf
▪︎ In the United States the cooperative sector represents over $500 billion in revenues and employs about two million people
/reic.uwcc.wisc.edu/sites/all/REIC_FINAL.pdf
▪ Cooperatives power almost 60% of the United States land mass. electric.coop/electric-cooperative-fact-sheet/
▪ "The 29,284 cooperative firms operating in the US generate over 2 million jobs and create more than $74 billion in wages annually according to a study conducted by the University of Wisconsin Center for Cooperatives, with support from the United States Department of Agriculture Rural Development. They represent 1% of USA Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and account for more than $654 billion in revenue. These cooperative businesses contribute with $133.5 billion in income and $3 trillion in assets, and provide products and services across the country in every sector of the economy."
"US cooperatives’ contribution to the national and local economies can be measured in both financial and non financial ways. They keep profits local, pay local taxes to help support community services, take part in community improvement programs and provide services for a large numbrer of people in the country regardless of their income levels or geographic location."
▪ Key points to highlight about American cooperatives:
• There are 120 million cooperative members.
• 92 million U.S. consumers are member owners of, and receive all or part of their financial services from the nation’s nearly 8,200 credit unions.
• More than 900 electric cooperatives deliver electricity in the United States to 42 million people in 47 states. That equates to 12 percent of the nation’s population.
• In the United States, more than 1.2 million families of all income levels live in homes owned and operated through cooperative associations.
• Farmer co-ops provide over 250,000 jobs, with a total payroll in excess of $8 billion.
• More than 50 million Americans are served by insurance companies owned by or closely affiliated with cooperatives.
• More than 20 cooperatives have annual sales in excess of $1 billion, including well known names like Land O’ Lakes, Inc., Cabot Creamery, Ocean Spray and ACE Hardware.
US data on Cooperatives
• 29,284 cooperative firms
•654 billion plus in revenue.
• $133.5 billion in income.
• $3 trillion in assets.
• 2 million plus jobs.
• 120 million members.
.aciamericas.coop/Economic-impact-of-the-United
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Why is economic democracy better than capitalism?
▪ study number 1:
The ‘Merva-Fowles’ study, done at the University of Utah in the 1990s, found powerful connections between unemployment and crime. They based their research on 30 major metropolitan areas with a total population of over 80 million.
A 1% rise in unemployment resulted in:
a 6.7% increase in Homicides;
a 3.4 % increase in violent crimes;
a 2.4 % increase in property crime.
During the period from 1990 to 1992, this translated into:
1459 additional Homicides;
62,607 additional violent crimes;
223,500 additional property crimes.
▪ Study number 2:
The Whitehall study found that workers at the bottom of the social ladder had greater concentrations of stress hormones than their counterparts in higher managerial positions.
In contrast, a survey carried out by The Anxiety Disorder Association of America, in 2006, found that workers were far less stressed and anxious when they had more of a say over their own work.
adaa.org/workplace-stress-anxiety-disorders-survey
▪ Study number 3:
Virginie Perotin's research** which looked at two decades worth of international data, shows that worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses.
"The idea that employees can run their own firms might sound unrealistic to some. This study looks at international data on worker-owned and run businesses in Europe, the US and Latin America and compares them with conventional businesses. It also reviews international statistical studies on the firms’ productivity, survival, investment and responsiveness.
It finds that worker co-operatives represent a serious business alternative and bring significant benefits to their employees and to the economy. There are thousands of worker-run businesses in Europe, employing several hundred thousand people in a broad range of industries, from traditional manufacturing to the creative and high-tech industries.
Because worker co-operatives are owned and run by them, employees in worker-owned co-operatives have far more say in the business, from day-to-day concerns through to major strategic issues.
The largest study comparing the productivity of worker co-operatives with that of conventional businesses finds that in several industries, conventional companies would produce more with their current levels of employment and capital if they behaved like employee-owned firms.
When market conditions change worker cooperatives review wages first and keep employment more stable. In a downturn worker co-operatives drop wages rather than reducing their workforce. When business picks up they are ready to
respond and can make up for lost pay because employees enjoy a share of profit."
The main findings from the analysis and review are:
• Worker co-operatives are larger than conventional businesses and not necessarily less capital intensive.
• Worker co-operatives survive at least as long as other businesses and have more stable employment.
• Worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses, with staff working “better and smarter” and production organised more efficiently.
• Worker co-operatives retain a larger share of their profits than other business models.
• Executive and non-executive pay differentials are much narrower in worker co-operatives than other firms.
** "Virginie Pérotin is Professor of Economics at Leeds University Business School and specialises in the effects of firm ownership and governance on performance, worker co-operatives, employee ownership and profit sharing. Previous academic and research roles include positions at the International Labour Office, the London School of Economics and the Centre d’Etude des Revenus et des Coûts (CERC) in the French Prime Minister’s Office in Paris. Professor Pérotin has also acted as a consultant to the European Commission, World Bank and OECD on issues of profit-sharing, employee ownership and employee involvement schemes."
▪ Study number 4:
This study by The Democracy Collaborative found that in the US, worker cooperatives can increase worker incomes by 70-80%, and that they can grow 2% faster a year than other businesses. This data also showed that worker coops have 9-19% greater levels of productivity, 45% lower turnover rates, and are 30% less likely to fail in the first few years of operation!
▪ Study number 5:
This study of worker cooperatives in Italy, the UK, and France found “positive” relationships with productivity. It also found that worker cooperatives do not become less productive as they get larger. One 1995 study of worker cooperatives in the timber industry in Washington, USA found that “co-ops are more efficient than the principal conventional firms by between 6 and 14 percent”.
▪ Study number 6:
An in-depth study of the Mondragon Corporation released today (5 April 2017) reveals how a large global business thrives because it’s owned by its workers, caps the gap between the highest and lowest paid, and has built an ecosystem around itself.
Now you compare that with capitalist Enterprises where where the pay disparity between the top and the bottom is as high as 312 times!
CEOs and shareholders do not Work 312 times harder then the actual workers themselves. These disparities only exist in dictatorial capitalist companies where workers have no control. And that's why in Flint Michigan the workers at the Ford Motor Company plant we're forced to poison their own water supply. It's why they had no choice when production was moved offshore. Those kind of problems do not exist or happen in workplace democracies. /business/2018/aug/16/ceo-versus-worker-wage-american-companies-pay-gap-study-2018
▪︎ Worldwide, cooperatives represent well over $3 trillion in turnover, 12.6 million in employment, and over a billion people in total membership.
w w w .un.org/esa/socdev/documents/2014/coopsegm/grace .pdf
▪︎ In the United States the cooperative sector represents over $500 billion in revenues and employs about two million people
/reic.uwcc.wisc.edu/sites/all/REIC_FINAL.pdf
▪ Cooperatives power almost 60% of the United States land mass. electric.coop/electric-cooperative-fact-sheet/
▪ "The 29,284 cooperative firms operating in the US generate over 2 million jobs and create more than $74 billion in wages annually according to a study conducted by the University of Wisconsin Center for Cooperatives, with support from the United States Department of Agriculture Rural Development. They represent 1% of USA Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and account for more than $654 billion in revenue. These cooperative businesses contribute with $133.5 billion in income and $3 trillion in assets, and provide products and services across the country in every sector of the economy."
"US cooperatives’ contribution to the national and local economies can be measured in both financial and non financial ways. They keep profits local, pay local taxes to help support community services, take part in community improvement programs and provide services for a large numbrer of people in the country regardless of their income levels or geographic location."
▪ Key points to highlight about American cooperatives:
• There are 120 million cooperative members.
• 92 million U.S. consumers are member owners of, and receive all or part of their financial services from the nation’s nearly 8,200 credit unions.
• More than 900 electric cooperatives deliver electricity in the United States to 42 million people in 47 states. That equates to 12 percent of the nation’s population.
• In the United States, more than 1.2 million families of all income levels live in homes owned and operated through cooperative associations.
• Farmer co-ops provide over 250,000 jobs, with a total payroll in excess of $8 billion.
• More than 50 million Americans are served by insurance companies owned by or closely affiliated with cooperatives.
• More than 20 cooperatives have annual sales in excess of $1 billion, including well known names like Land O’ Lakes, Inc., Cabot Creamery, Ocean Spray and ACE Hardware.
US data on Cooperatives
• 29,284 cooperative firms
•654 billion plus in revenue.
• $133.5 billion in income.
• $3 trillion in assets.
• 2 million plus jobs.
• 120 million members.
.aciamericas.coop/Economic-impact-of-the-United
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@willnitschke , Study number 1:
Virginie Perotin's research** which looked at two decades worth of international data, shows that worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses.
"The idea that employees can run their own firms might sound unrealistic to some. This study looks at international data on worker-owned and run businesses in Europe, the US and Latin America and compares them with conventional businesses. It also reviews international statistical studies on the firms’ productivity, survival, investment and responsiveness.
It finds that worker co-operatives represent a serious business alternative and bring significant benefits to their employees and to the economy. There are thousands of worker-run businesses in Europe, employing several hundred thousand people in a broad range of industries, from traditional manufacturing to the creative and high-tech industries.
Because worker co-operatives are owned and run by them, employees in worker-owned co-operatives have far more say in the business, from day-to-day concerns through to major strategic issues.
The largest study comparing the productivity of worker co-operatives with that of conventional businesses finds that in several industries, conventional companies would produce more with their current levels of employment and capital if they behaved like employee-owned firms.
When market conditions change worker cooperatives review wages first and keep employment more stable. In a downturn worker co-operatives drop wages rather than reducing their workforce. When business picks up they are ready to
respond and can make up for lost pay because employees enjoy a share of profit."
The main findings from the analysis and review are:
• Worker co-operatives are larger than conventional businesses and not necessarily less capital intensive.
• Worker co-operatives survive at least as long as other businesses and have more stable employment.
• Worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses, with staff working “better and smarter” and production organised more efficiently.
• Worker co-operatives retain a larger share of their profits than other business models.
• Executive and non-executive pay differentials are much narrower in worker co-operatives than other firms.
** "Virginie Pérotin is Professor of Economics at Leeds University Business School and specialises in the effects of firm ownership and governance on performance, worker co-operatives, employee ownership and profit sharing. Previous academic and research roles include positions at the International Labour Office, the London School of Economics and the Centre d’Etude des Revenus et des Coûts (CERC) in the French Prime Minister’s Office in Paris. Professor Pérotin has also acted as a consultant to the European Commission, World Bank and OECD on issues of profit-sharing, employee ownership and employee involvement schemes."
Here is a link to the research data https://www.uk.coop/sites/default/files/uploads/attachments/worker_co-op_report.pdf
Study number 2:
This study by The Democracy Collaborative found that in the US, worker cooperatives can increase worker incomes by 70-80%, and that they can grow 2% faster a year than other businesses. This data also showed that worker coops have 9-19% greater levels of productivity, 45% lower turnover rates, and are 30% less likely to fail in the first few years of operation!
https://democracycollaborative.org/content/worker-cooperatives-pathways-scale
Study number 3:
This study of worker cooperatives in Italy, the UK, and France found “positive” relationships with productivity. It also found that worker cooperatives do not become less productive as they get larger. One 1995 study of worker cooperatives in the timber industry in Washington, USA found that “co-ops are more efficient than the principal conventional firms by between 6 and 14 percent”.
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/1995/01/1995_bpeamicro_craig.pdf
Study number 4:
An in-depth study of the Mondragon Corporation released today (5 April 2017) reveals how a large global business thrives because it’s owned by its workers, caps the gap between the highest and lowest paid, and has built an ecosystem around itself.
https://www.uk.coop/newsroom/new-report-highlights-lessons-worlds-largest-worker-co-op
Now you compare that with capitalist Enterprises where where the pay disparity between the top and the bottom is as high as 312 times!
CEOs and shareholders do not Work 312 times harder then the actual workers themselves. These disparities only exist in dictatorial capitalist companies where workers have no control. And that's why in Flint Michigan the workers at the Ford Motor Company plant we're forced to poison their own water supply. It's why they had no choice when production was moved offshore. Those kind of problems do not exist or happen in workplace democracies. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/16/ceo-versus-worker-wage-american-companies-pay-gap-study-2018
▪︎ Worldwide, cooperatives represent well over $3 trillion in turnover, 12.6 million in employment, and over a billion people in total membership.
http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/documents/2014/coopsegm/grace.pdf
▪︎ In the United States the cooperative sector represents over $500 billion in revenues and employs about two million people
http://reic.uwcc.wisc.edu/sites/all/REIC_FINAL.pdf
1. For example, these assembly line workers make $65,000 a year for putting bread into a bag! https://youtu.be/-VdbFzwe8fQ
2. People feel United and actually look forward to going to work! That makes them more creative and productive. https://youtu.be/oH81zuMf_Co
3. Worker cooperatives are more productive than normal companies https://www.thenation.com/article/worker-cooperatives-are-more-productive-than-normal-companies/
4. More resilience, productivity, and equality. https://lindsayadvocate.ca/worker-cooperatives-a-path-to-equality/
5. Democratic workplaces are far superior to capitalist corporations!
https://cooperativesfirst.com/blog/2017/09/11/2017911how-co-operatives-are-better-than-corporations/
6. People have more money, people are happier, people are more productive and more creative, and they feel more connected to their communities and environment. https://youtu.be/em9YQzDTReo
7. The Italian Region Where Co-ops Produce a Third of Its GDP https://www.yesmagazine.org/economy/2016/07/05/the-italian-place-where-co-ops-drive-the-economy-and-most-people-are-members/
8. pandemic crash shows worker cooperatives are more resilient than traditional businesses. Worker co-ops are a more sustainable form of business, sharing benefits in the good times and burdens in the hard times.
https://truthout.org/articles/pandemic-crash-shows-worker-co-ops-are-more-resilient-than-traditional-business/
9. Cooperatives power almost 60% of the United States land mass https://www.electric.coop/electric-cooperative-fact-sheet/
10. "The 29,284 cooperative firms operating in the US generate over 2 million jobs and create more than $74 billion in wages annually according to a study conducted by the University of Wisconsin Center for Cooperatives, with support from the United States Department of Agriculture Rural Development. They represent 1% of USA Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and account for more than $654 billion in revenue. These cooperative businesses contribute with $133.5 billion in income and $3 trillion in assets, and provide products and services across the country in every sector of the economy."
"US cooperatives’ contribution to the national and local economies can be measured in both financial and non financial ways. They keep profits local, pay local taxes to help support community services, take part in community improvement programs and provide services for a large numbrer of people in the country regardless of their income levels or geographic location."
Key points to highlight about American cooperatives:
• There are 120 million cooperative members.
• 92 million U.S. consumers are member owners of, and receive all or part of their financial services from the nation’s nearly 8,200 credit unions.
• More than 900 electric cooperatives deliver electricity in the United States to 42 million people in 47 states. That equates to 12 percent of the nation’s population.
• In the United States, more than 1.2 million families of all income levels live in homes owned and operated through cooperative associations.
• Farmer co-ops provide over 250,000 jobs, with a total payroll in excess of $8 billion.
• More than 50 million Americans are served by insurance companies owned by or closely affiliated with cooperatives.
• More than 20 cooperatives have annual sales in excess of $1 billion, including well known names like Land O’ Lakes, Inc., Cabot Creamery, Ocean Spray and ACE Hardware.
US data on Cooperatives
• 29,284 cooperative firms
•654 billion plus in revenue.
• $133.5 billion in income.
• $3 trillion in assets.
• 2 million plus jobs.
• 120 million members.
https://www.aciamericas.coop/Economic-impact-of-the-United
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It's not a false choice. We should have made the transition to an economic democracy a long time ago. When workers and communities on their own factories and businesses, that's more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy. The wealth flows to the community and workers. That causes the economy to expand because there's more demand for things such as Pizza, beer, trips to the bowling alley, excetera. But when billionaires own most of the capital, they get most of the wealth produced by labour. They spend it on going to space, buying politicians, buying lobbyists, buying lawyers and accountants so they can hide money offshore, etc. They also buy up more Capital such as parking lots at hospitals, electric companies, railroads, Etc. Bill Gates bought a big chunk of the Canadian Railway system. He also bought newly privatized Labs were people get their blood tested in Canada. He's now also the largest owner of farmland in the United States. If you have to pay extra money to Bill Gates every time you want a blood test, park your car, Drive the train, that's less money that you have to spend into the economy. That causes the economy to contract. One of the reasons why they're so much debt. Also, worker-owned companies are tied to the community. You don't have to worry about somebody forcing you to work in unsafe conditions or moving your means of production to China.
So I don't know why you said the fault choice. That doesn't make any sense at all. When people own the product of their labour, they're free! But when someone owns the product of your labour, then you're basically nothing more than human livestock. A wage slave. A wage slave is not much better off than a chattel slave. In the late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, even the Republican party was against wage slavery. When you're awake slave, everything you produce belongs to someone else. That's why labor-saving technology doesn't reduce working hours even though productivity levels have more than tripled since 1950. Just like if you were to use bovine growth hormone to Triple milk production, the cow doesn't get to work fewer hours. The cow doesn't end up with three times the amount of milk. All belongs to the farmer. Why technology led to the Advent of the billionaire class.
Thanks to capitalism most people have to work 40 hours a week or longer just so they can afford to live in a little wooden box, have food and clothing. 😀 yeah, false choice. That's like saying the choice between freedom and slavery is false.
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@ExPwner , of course it's extortion and using Force. The rich people buy up as much of the resources as they possibly can, increase the prices. They do that with Pharmaceuticals, vaccines, technology, machine parts, minerals, food, water, Etc. The capitalists will privatize even cemeteries and raise the prices. They will privatize entire lakes and then charge the people money to get access to their own water. I have many friends that have worked their entire lives breaking their backs so that they can retire with a good pension only now to have to hand that money over to a landlord and Middleman in order to get access to food. You think people break their backs everyday just so that they can hand their paycheck over to a landlord? You think people work their entire lives just as they can hand their pension over to a landlord?
You don't call that extortion and the use of force? You just reiterate those old tired talking points better disseminated by Propaganda organization such as prageru. You see, that is why so many people are interested in socialism. When workers and communities own their own water supply, hospitals, food distribution Networks, power plants, Etc, then they can cut out the capitalist middleman and just pay for the actual cost of goods and services.
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@ExPwner , and no, the Nazis were not socialist. Saying that they were is both a-historical and empirically false. There's a reason why it capitalized him and fascism are on the same side of the political Spectrum. There is a reason why capitalists support fascism. Fascism is good for capitalist. They destroy labour unions, labour union organizers, they eliminate regulations that protect the environment, workers, children, consumers, Etc. Those regulations get in the way of profits. The goal of capitalism is to maximize profits. But if you can't dump effluent into the river, if you have to use more expensive material because it's not polluting, if you can't utilize child Labour, if you have to pay higher wages, all of those things decrease profits.
All a person has to do is look at public record to see what the Nazis did and the effect that it had. All a person has to do is take the time to read read the documented history. And once you do that, you see very clearly why so many capitalist countries and capitalist billionaires actually funded the fascists and their movements. https://youtu.be/cgRAn31q578
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@donrastar1579 , yes, there's hundreds of thousands of socialist companies all over the world.
▪︎ Worldwide, cooperatives represent well over $3 trillion in turnover, 12.6 million in employment, and over a billion people in total membership.
http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/documents/2014/coopsegm/grace.pdf
▪︎ In the United States the cooperative sector represents over $500 billion in revenues and employs about two million people
http://reic.uwcc.wisc.edu/sites/all/REIC_FINAL.pdf
▪ almost 60% of the United States gets its electricity from worker and community-owned electrical cooperatives.
https://www.electric.coop/electric-cooperative-fact-sheet/
There are many institutional forms of public and social ownership.
Just a few examples:
Forms of social production:
• State-owned Enterprises (SOEs)
corporations are owned directly by a government (National or sub-national), and operate according to a mandate that may include social criteria.
In advanced capitalist countries many SOEs have been privatized under neoliberalism. But many still operate successfully (in diverse Industries including manufacturing, Communications, Transportation, utilities, and resources), accounting for up to 5% of total GDP in some OCED countries. Examples of successful wholly or partially -owned SOEs include Volkswagen (Germany), State Oil (Norway), EDF group (France), and Metsahalltus (Finland). In many developing and former communist countries (including China, Brazil, Russia and Vietnam) SOEs are much more important.
• producer cooperatives.
A producer Co-operative is owned collectively and equally by the people who work in it, and is usually governed according to "one person, one vote."
Cooperatives are one of the most common forms of nonprofit Enterprises. There are hundreds of thousands of cooperatives in the world; the United Nations estimates that half the world's population are members or customers of a Cooperative. Examples of successful producer cooperatives include Fonterra (New Zealand's largest Dairy producer), the ReWe Group (a major tourism company in Germany), Huawei (a giant Chinese electronics manufacturer, 99% owned by its workers), and Japan's Farm sector where over 90% of the Farmers belong to cooperatives). Strong networks of producer cooperatives are the dominant economic structure in Spain's Mondragon region and Italy's Emilia-Romagna region.
• Consumer Cooperatives.
A consumer Cooperative is owned collectively and equally by the people who buy its products, and is usually governed according to "one person, one vote."
Many retail cooperatives are formed to help consumers obtain lower prices and challenge the market power of private retailers. In Denmark over one-third of all retail sales are conducted through cooperatives. The E.Leclerc Cooperative operates over 500 supermarkets in France. Canada's Mountain Equipment Co-op runs the country's largest retail Network for outdoor recreation products.
• Recovered companies.
Workers in a bankrupt company effectively expropriate the Enterprise and attempt to keep it in business.
In the years after the 2001 financial crisis in Argentina, over 200 bankrupt factories were taken over by their workers, who continue to operate them (with some government support for refinancing). 2013 law in Bolivia gives workers the explicit legal authority to take over filled firms.
• Community Trusts.
A Community Trust is a non-profit Corporation, usually exempt from normal business taxes, created to purchase and development land, housing, and other Community Asset.
There are over 250 Community Land Trust operating in the US, with the explicit mission to undertake affordable housing develop, Environmental Conservation, and local job creation on lands that they own. Governance is based on a shared model that includes lessees and elected local representatives.
• Benefit corporations.
A benefit Corporation is owned by private shareholders, but obliged by its Charter to pursue social and environmental goals in addition to profit.
"B Lab" is an association which publishes an annual Global ranking of successful benefit corporations. Recent recognized firms include Echele! a tu casa (a benefit corporation based in Mexico City which develops low-cost housing for residents of poor neighborhoods), and Give Something Back (a major office supply company in California with a Community Development mandate).
• Community and nonprofit Enterprises.
Jobs in especially hard-hit regions and communities can be created by nonprofit Community Development agencies, drawing on local resources including training, housing and alternative Finance.
Community Economic Development (CED) is an "up by the bootstraps" effort to mobilize local resources that would otherwise idle, providing local Services, developing infrastructure, and providing unemployed people with job experience and training. Decentralized CED initiatives can be important in many developing economies, and in poor or remote regions of developed countries. Some entire communities have been founded and sustained on Cooperative principles in many countries.
Forms of socialized Finance:
• public banks.
Public banks are owned by national or sub-national levels of government; they take deposits, issue loans ( create credit), and facilitate financial transactions.
Public banking is widespread in many parts of the world. Countries in which publicly- owned banks play a major role include Japan (the JapanPost Bank is the largest Savings Bank in the world), Germany (with two parallel networks of public Banks: Sparkassen and Landesbanken), and China ( where are the state-owned banking system helped China completely avoid the 2008 - 09 World recession).
• Credit unions and Cooperative Banks.
Credit unions and other Cooperative banks are owned by their members, and govern according to "one person, one vote."
there are at least 60,000 credit unions and Cooperative banks in the world, with trillions of dollars in Combined assets; they are the most developed and Powerful form of cooperative enterprise. Large credit unions are important Financial players in many countries, including: Netherlands (the huge Rabobank has 60,000 employees and 750 billion in assets), and France (three major cooperative bank federations account for almost half of all consumer banking), Sweden (the JAK Bank makes loans without charging interest at all), and Canada (the Desjardins credit union movement is the largest financial institution in Quebec).
• Investment and development Banks.
Publicly-owned investment Banks specialize in targeted lending and investing in key companies (including private companies)with strategic economic importance.
State-owned investment or development Banks play an important role in sector development policy and many countries, including France, the Nordic countries, Japan, and Brazil. Singapore's Temasek Holdings was established to foster broad economic and industrial development there; it partially owns over 50 companies, and is consistently profitable.
• Social investment funds and Foundations.
• Sovereign wealth.
• Microcredit.
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