Comments by "Primmakin Sofis" (@primmakinsofis614) on "TIKhistory"
channel.
-
20
-
16
-
15
-
13
-
12
-
8
-
6
-
6
-
4
-
4
-
@beefy1212 I have trepidation about watching the video, because I suspect it will repeat the myriad of questionable claims about Dresden that always seem to get mentioned.
The shift from incendiary to explosive starts in the spring of 1944, as control of the strategic bombers was handed over to SHAEF in preparation for D-Day.
433 Squadron began operating at the start of 1944. The most commonly carried bomb load by its Halifax bombers from that start through to its last use of the Halifax in mid-January 1945 was 16 x 500-lb bombs. That load was carried by 35.3% of bombing sorties. The next most frequent load was 9 x 1,000-lb and 4 x 500-lb (11.7% of bombing sorties). All loads involving incendiaries accounted for only 8.6%, with the most frequent being 1 x 2,000-lb bomb and 1,080 x 4-lb incendiaries (4.4%).
433 Squadron started flying the Lancaster at the start of Feb. 1945. For the remainder of the war, loads which included incendiaries accounted for 41.0% of bombing sorties; the other 59% of sorties carried explosive bombs only. (Against Dresden itself, 433 Squadron dispatched 7 Lancasters, all of which carried 1 x 4,000-lb, 5 x 500-lb, and 4 x 250-lb bombs -- no incendiaries were brought by the squadron.)
106 Squadron dispatched 16 Lancasters which attacked Dresden. Five carried 1 x 4,000-lb and 8 x 500-lb, while two carried 1 x 4,000-lb and 11 x 500-lb. Seven carried 1 x 500-lb and 1,650 x 4-lb incendiaries, while two carried 2 x 500-lb and 1,950 x 4-lb incendiaries.
Dresden became a catastrophe for one simple reason: a firestorm was created. Had that not happened, casualties would have been far lower, and the raid on that city would be no more noted than the raid on Chemnitz which occurred the very next night, attacked by nearly as many bombers.
(The three biggest firestorms of the war in terms of casualties: Tokyo in March 1945, Hamburg in July 1943, and Dresden in Feb. 1945.)
3
-
2
-
I remember a documentary where it showed you what the RAF did, 1st they used blast bombs to break most of the windows in the given area, 2nd They used the Cookies to put craters in the roads to impede emergency services 3rd,Then they would drop the incendiaries to cause fires and storms through the increased airflow through the broken windows.
Yes, the Operational Research Section did much to determine the most effective way to spread fire, and worked out what you mentioned. (We should remember that fire is an excellent tool for destroying infrastructure.) The ORS also figured out that the 30-lb incendiary bomb was not as efficient a weapon as the 4-lb, which is why the 30-lb incendiary was discontinued as a weapon.
That said, the idea that all Bomber Command did was area raids on German cities using incendiary bombs is wrong. In reality the RAF went after plenty of other targets (with varying degrees of success). The peak year for incendiary bomb usage by the RAF, both in terms of tonnage and percentage of total bombs dropped, was 1943. Typical bomb loads changed considerably in 1944, with high explosives accounting for the vast majority of the loads, and fire-raising raids comprising a much smaller proportion of missions. In 1945, the RAF actually dropped more tons of bombs on oil targets than did the 8th Air Force.
There is a lot to the subject of the Strategic Bomber Offensive. It's a more complex matter than many realize.
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
TIK, I suspect I will have much to say after I've watched the video. But from first checking your sources, I notice there is nothing there that talks about Bomber Command's previous raids (e.g. The Bomber Command War Diaries by Martin Middlebrook or Chris Everitt), or books which discuss why Bomber Command operated the way it did, or primary source documents (e.g. the squadron ORBs) which show the bomb loads actually carried operationally.
Such sources are critical in putting the aerial bombing campaign into proper context.
Many seem to think all Bomber Command did was nighttime incendiary area raids of German cities, but the reality is different. The peak year for incendiary bomb usage, both in terms of total tonnage dropped and as a percentage of all bombs dropped, was 1943. There is a definite shift in typical bomb loads in the first quarter of 1944, and incendiary raids go from being common in 1943 to being infrequent in latter 1944 and 1945. Other targets, and high explosive bombs, take precedence. For example, Bomber Command actually dropped more tons of bombs on oil targets in 1945 than did the USAAF.
The air war, just like the ground war, is a complex topic, with many interrelated factors.
2
-
2
-
2
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@pebo8306 Aside from the Bf-110 there were their Ju-88 buddies and the Me-410's,and the 262's,plus all that ordinary fighters who flew"Wilde Sau"Add to that deadly accurate radar-guided flak!
Unless, of course, the radar is jammed by Window/chaff, Carpet, Piperack, Mandrel, or Shiver; the night-fighter direction radio comms jammed by Airborne Cigar, Jostle, or Tinsel; and the night-fighters shot down by Intruders or their bases subjected to Firebash attacks.
The reason the B-29s flew low over Tokyo was because the Japanese night defences were not good at lower altitudes, and it allowed the B-29s to carry greater payloads. Over Germany, that would not have been required. The RAF was able to (sometimes) do quite effective fire-raising raids from 20,000-foot altitudes. Had the B-29s been used over Europe, even the most distant German targets would have been well within its range, so high altitude raids would have been carried out.
1
-
@Boxmediaphile The reason for the switch in tactics came down to the fact that conventional high-altitude daytime raids aimed at industrial complexes were not achieving the desired results as they had over Germany. The jetstream winds at those altitudes caused significant reductions in accuracy, and the B-29s were operating at close to their limits. Washington was impatient for results, so Gen. LeMay switched tactics.
He reasoned the mostly wooden cities of Japan would burn more readily than had those of Germany; the more dispersed nature of Japanese industry would be impacted by wider spread, general damage to the target area; and by bombing from a lower altitude in nighttime, the strain put on the B-29s would be reduced and they could carry a larger bomb load. To facilitate that last point, LeMay had the B-29s stripped of their defensive armament, other than the tail guns, to lighten the aircraft.
The first mission under the new tactics was the raid on Tokyo. The crews, without most of their defensive guns and flying much lower than had been the case, expected to suffer heavy losses.
It turned out the March 30-31 raid succeeded beyond anyone's expectations. Aircraft losses were few, and the bombing caused the creation of a firestorm, which is why the casualty total in the city was so high, estimated to be about 100,000. It was the single-most devastating raid on a city in WWII, with the casualty total exceeding even those of the atomic bombs.
1
-
1
-
@beefy1212 I plan to. I find TIK's videos are usually quite good.
But the air war is an interest of mine, and something I have been reading about for years. (Heck, I restarted a project to meticulously record the bomb load and other mission details from squadron Operation Record Books.)
I find the air war, just like the ground war, is a complex topic, and there are A LOT of factors going into it that are overlooked or excluded in videos on the subject.
(TIK himself said in another video the air war isn't a focus of his, so I kind of doubht the books listed as sources for this video are enough background context.)
In terms of running out of explosive bombs, the RAF did run low of its own supply of MC bombs in 1944 such that it was forced to use its older GP bombs, and use American GP and SAP bombs in considerable numbers.
But raids intended primarily as fire-raising attacks peaked in 1943, and considerably fewer seem to have been conducted in 1944-45. The squadron ORBs shows a definitive shift in ordnance from incendiary to high explosive. Part of this was the increased focus on transportation as a target, as explosive bombs are better at wrecking railways than incendiaries.
1
-
1