Comments by "BeyerT1" (@derbigpr500) on "New Honda Civic Type R vs Leon Cupra 280 vs Megane RS Trophy track battle" video.
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Can reviewers stop claiming that Honda is the fastest around Nurburgring? It's misinformation.
THAT WAS NOT AN OFFICIAL LAP TIME.
NOT EVEN HONDA CLAIMS IT TO BE. THEY RELEASED THE VIDEO PURELY FOR ENTERTAINMENT.
IT WAS A PRE-PRODUCTION CAR, MODIFIED IN MANY WAYS.
Come on people, it had a roll cage, no rear seats, no passenger seat, no A/C, semi-slick tires (you can easily tell by the tone of squealing and the way they slip), etc. It also clearly had more power than claimed, if you watch the Megane and Type R videos side by side you'll see how much faster the Civic is on the straight and how much Megane gains on it at every corner. That Civic does not have 300hp, it has close to 350 or it has some massive weight savings that we can't see on top the obvious parts.
And even if it was a production car, well, big fucking whoop, it managed to beat a 7 year old Megane, by 3 seconds, on a 20km long track, after spending 5 years on that one single track trying to make it fast as possible. That is actually humiliating for Honda and nothing to brag about. Considering how much head start they had, how much time they had for development and for having put so much effort into it and then it barely ends up faster than a car that has parts in it (gearbox, engine, parts of suspension) from two car generations ago. On top of that, it's not any faster than a Seat, these three times are more about the driving than the cars themselves anyway, but look at how smooth the Seat and Megane are, and how freaking stiff the Honda is. Even by making it so hard and track focused, they still barely beat a Seat which probably feels like a Rolls Royce compared to Honda on the road in terms of comfort.
But anyway, all these victories will be settled next year when the new Megane RS comes, it will drop that Nurburgring time by another 10 seconds, and will probably be the first FWD car to go around in under 7:40. They've dropped 10 seconds off of that lap with every new generation, there's no reason to believe they wont do it again. Everyone knows who the king of hot hatches is and who has been beating far more powerful proper sports cars around track for years, all these new kids on the block are making use of the fact that the Megane is at the end of it's life cycle and they're all brand new cars. The new Megane RS will also have 4 wheel steering that the Renault Laguna GT has, and that car pulls close to 1,5G in corners, it's got more grip than most sports cars, while being a comfortable and relatively soft family car. I just hope they don't fuck it up by putting a dual clutch automatic into it like they did with the Clio RS, a hot hatch has to be manual.
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***** Yea but it changed the stiffness of the body (and it's total bullshit when they claim it didn't, they can fool children in the kindergarten, not a mechanical engineer like me, even "rubber mounting" it has some effects). It did affect it at least a bit, but that is irrelevant. The rollcage might have slightly changed the distribution of weight, center of gravity, etc.
But that is again irrelevant, even if everything related to the weight was the same as the production car, even if the roll cage had the sole purpose to protect the driver in case of crash, that is already an advantage because the driver could push the car harder knowing that if he crashes he will be ok, instead of driving a road car that wont be as safe in a crash. Mentally when driving on a race track (and again, having more than 15 years of experience of track driving myself I'd know), it's very important to feel safe and comfortable. Even if you're just subconsciously aware that you simply can't get hurt if you crash, you'll consciously take more risk when driving. Just that advantage is an unfair advantage for the driver (and don't be naive and think that driver is not the most important component of the lap time on Nurburgring, average driver could not take these cars around it in less than 8:30 even with all assists enabled).
On top of that, compare the Megane and Civic laps side by side, see how much faster the Civic is in the straight, it literally looks like it accelerates like a car with 400hp not 300. And Megane keeps up because it's faster trough corners and during braking and corner exits. Listen to the tone of the tires and the slip angles, which are very specific and easy to recognize for semi-slick tires if you have experience of driving with them, again, an advantage for Honda over the Megane, which used Bridgestone more road focused tires.
In any case, even if Civic is faster, we're still comparing cars that came out SEVEN YEARS apart, and the engine in the Megane is actually pulling roots from the Megane II, so the engine basics, as well as gearbox, are basically 12-13 years old, whereas the Civic has a brand new drive train. It's not such a big feat to barely be able to beat a car from one or two generations ago, by a hair. When Megane 3 game out, it beat the old Megane RS 230 by 15 and Focus RS500 by almost 20 seconds per lap on the Nurburgring, Honda barely managed 3 seconds, WITH those unfair advantages.
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Victor Hoyles 0.4 seconds of a difference is not exactly what I'd call "spanked". You're clearly a fanboy who is unable to think clearly and will exaggerate everything just to prove he's right. This video is 100% about driving, just a small mistake or a different line can make 1 second or more of a difference on a track with such slow chicanes and corners, where you can simply cut the chicane a bit more aggressively and save about 10 km/h of speed, so I would not use this video as any sort of proof, the times were just too close. I grew up at race tracks and have a lot of experience driving on them, and just by looking at this video and the track layout I can see where he could have easily fucked up without it showing on the video and still lost or gained more than just a second.
And the Megane (which beat the Seat in EVERY comparison so far except this one) had old brake pads which faded, so that time is totally out of the question, because they should have used the cars equally worn out mechanical parts. Furthermore, the Seat Leon is actually not the most hardcore version, because this one didn't have the Sub 8 minute perfrormance pack, which would reduce the time. On top of that, look how stiff the Civic is...just because it's suspension is much more track focused, it has so much more aero features, more power and more torque, it should have been far faster, but it wasn't. 0.4s is nothing when it comes to such slow cars...this is not F1 you know...this is a slow track, and 0.4 seconds of a difference is really small.
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aquaphoenixx Civic that did the lap was not a production car at all. It was a pre-production vehicle, it had slick tires, it had a roll cage, no passenger or rear seats, probably either a lot of weight saving elsewhere or a lot of power added considering how fast it is in the straight line, so that time around Nurburgring is totally irrelevant, which makes it more annoying when everyone seems to mention it. Play the Megane and Type R Nurburgring videos side by side, start at the same point in the lap, you'll see how much faster Honda is in the straight line, it literally goes like it has closer to 400hp than 300, and in the every braking zone and every corner the Megane makes up a lot of time.
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