Comments by "Archangel17" (@MDP1702) on "The Majority Report w/ Sam Seder"
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@tyronesimon3742
I am not a racist (and not even an american), but the reperations bullshit is so stupid. All it will do is provide a short term boost to these poor black families. Sending just one or two children to college will already burn through these reperations.
Bernies policies (m4a, free education, ...) would provide a long term boost for ALL (poor) people be they black, white, hispanic, whatever.
Yes black people have been treated badly, yes they have suffered and are overall more poor because of it. But guess what, this has happened all throughout history. Are you in favor that the industrialised countries just hand out billions upon billions to african nations because of colonial history, slavery and exploitation after decolonisation? Should the US pay billions to the phillipines? Should the US give Japan reparations for having dropped 2 nukes on them? Should the US give half its land back to the native tribes that survive?
No, what should be done is improving everyones lives, so that the descendants of those who suffered will have a better life now and their descendants even better lives. Reperations will not help this, long term plans will.
And we are not there yet for 1000 dollar a month for everyone, we need a lot more robotisation and automatisation before we get there. And especially in a capitalistic society like the US this won't work, since companies will just up their prices to make more profit and it will be a zero sum operation. In order for the UBI to properly work the US needs to move to a socialist system or at least a social democracy (which Sanders stands for).
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@jesushatesyoutoo
And the US shouldn't be in other countries, so shut up.
It's because of US foreign policy that Europa suffered the refugee crisis, so yeah, europeans do have the right to at least take part in discussions about US politics. Or do americans never get involved in the politics of other nations? Of course they do.
And yet your candidates wants to allow rapists, murders, child molesters, domestic terrorists, you know violent criminals to vote.
The US has the most amount of incarcerated per person in the world. Most of them haven't commited a violent crime, but are in prison for minor offenses that should have never made them go to prison in the first place. Prison is meant to be a place for rehabilitation and eventual rejoinging of society, being able to vote is an integral part of that and voting should in my eyes be seen as a right, not a privilege.
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@benigntumor
Starting your comment by saying you're not a racist doesn't bode well for what you're going to say.
It rather shows what kind of surrounding this is. I know that if I don't speak in favor of reparations people will call me racist. But if I am racist, then so is basically almost the entire world. I never judge anyone based on their skin, only their actions. I have family that is black and I would give my life for theirs. I even once punched someone that was being racist to them. I know for certain I am not a racist, however I know the surrounding I speak in and know that people will paint me racist for this opinion.
but to suggest that simply electing him president will be the cure all for poor Black people is asinine.
That I didn't say. I said his policies would be better than reparations in the long run. Reparations are a short term boost, Bernies policies a long term one.
I can't speak to other atrocities in world history,but I do know slavery in th U.S. stole billions of dollars of wealth from Black people while simultaneously boosting the country to become an economic superpower.
Actually the US didn't become an economic superpower due to slavery, sure slavery helped increase the wealth of the south early on, however it was industrialisation that made the US an economic superpower. In fact only decades after the US revolution slavery was already starting to cost more than it was worth and it stopped the south from industrialising. So in fact slavery had the opposite effect to the US economy than what many claim.
It is difficult to say how much wealth the "US" (more like the slave holders) stole from slaves, however even after +-50-60 years of independence and still an incredible amount of natural wealth in african nations, most africans are much worse of than african americans due to internal problems. You have to understand even before slavery and colonisation, most african people led a very harsh life that was far below western standards. Does this excuse slavery? Ofcourse not, slavery is one of the worst things that happened and I am very happy that it ended (although there is modern slavery, in Lybia there are even open slave markets these days). It is just to put things into perspective.
Also, your rising tide lifts all boats strategy has historically left Black people behind (The New Deal & G.i. Bill specifically come to mind).
That was certain to be the case because of segregation and still very wide racism. However if every african american can go to college without enormous student debt, if every african american can go to the doctor or hospital, this will already help a lot. There ofcourse also need to be other programs that help these poor (black) communities, however a one time hand out isn't going to carry them far with cripling healthcare and education costs. They'll literally burn through their reparations in years, at best one generation. And then what? And reforming both the healthcare system, education system and pay reparations, that is too much for just one 4 year presidency.
Unless you understand the legacy of the mental, emotional and economic pain and suffering of both slavery
I might agree if you said the legacy caused by racism that they still suffer now, however no african american alive now has been a slave and even segregation is something that only the elderly will truly remember (at least official segregation). I just don't think the idea of reparations as it is floated now is a solution, it might even raise racism because suddenly african americans get a hand out for something that they never experienced, while others that suffer racism, hatred, etc. are left out. What's next, pay every gay for the harm caused to gays in the past, or maybe the families of all people that were killed/harm due to sexuality, skin, beliefs, .... the payments would never stop. Should south european nations demand reparations from northern africa nations because in the past their ancestors were enslaved by people in northern africa? Should Turkey pay reparations to everyone from the balkans for the people their took from their into slavery? I can literally go on for pages and pages like this.
Everyone has ancestors that were harmed or treated in a very very bad way in the past, but we can't repay everything from the past, we rather need to look to the future.
Jim Crow (not to mention redlining and White Supremacy overall)
You could say the same of islamic terrorism to victims of their terror, should their nations of origin pay reparations for that? We should fight racism, faith and race supremacists everywhere at all times, but this shouldn't be an excuse/reason for reparations.
don't assume to know what is and isn't in the best interests of Black Americans.
And many of them don't know what is in their best interests either (voting Hillary instead of Bernie sure showed that). That is the problem, many people don't objectively know what's in their best interests (black, white, whatever) and at the same time they are saying to people that actually know it (based on data, research, tests, ...) to stay out of their lifes for the same reason you do now, just because "only black people know what is in their best interests".
His people got 89 billion in reparations but for black people he doesn't know what it means?
Jewish reparations were done closely after the outcome of the war (only years after), and they were paid to the people that actually suffered from the autrocities, not the people that never were harmed by them (for example american jews weren't paid reparations). This is in stark difference with the reparations for black people based on the legacy of slavery. I could fully support (if I were american) a reparations to the older african americans that lived during "official" segregation (everyone +- 45-50 years or so) as a reparation for the time they suffered under segregation, but for slavery, no. Your comparison between jewish reparations and slavery reparations is completely wrong.
then he said reparations is divisive
It is divise. It could litterally spark a new wave of racism towards the black community that is worse than anything in the past decades.
Any white man that is against black people being compensated for centuries of oppression is a racist.
People (not just black people) have been oppressed all throughout history, that is nothing new. The demand that people should be payed for oppression they never personally suffered is ridiculous. Payment for oppression they suffered in their own lifetime, fine.
America has money to go to space and go to war but cant compensate black people for robbing us of the American dream.
America has money for a lot of things. However it has been spending a lot more money than it has (as shown by the rising debt). There definitely should be a refocus towards the people. But don't forget, no space race = no satellites = no many things people take for granted now. If the British never colonised the america's, no US (the similarity is that maybe one day mankind can colonise other planets/space). Besides, the space program has received less than a trillion funding over its 60 years of history, not impressive for a US government program.
But ofcourse I understand what you mean, and yes the US should change their financial focus. However there are next to reparations many other things to be funded (failing infrastructure, healthcare, education, ... )
But yes, the US could pay reparations, the question is, are reparations at this time ethical themselves? Should people that are not racist, that do not/which ancestors did not support slavery, that had no US ancestors during slavery, ... pay for the reparations too, because that is in fact what will happen if it is just the US government paying? Shouldn't it just be the descendants of actual slave owners that pay the reparations? Or maybe just the people that had ancestors in the south during slavery, ... Basically who should actually pay them? Who should be "punished" for crimes far in the past long before they even lived?
I am for actual equality and equal opportunity for all and mark my words, within 1-2 generations the split in race would be almost non existant. Unfortunately we are only human and equal opportunity will never really appear, but we should move towards it as best as we can and look at the present and future, not the (far) past.
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@bruceharvey8118
Ehm, no. In every single payer system or something like it, people with life threatening injuries etc will get priority. If there are patients of several different injuries, the hospital will prioritise: 1) A person dying, 2) a person having his leg mangled, 3) a person with a broken arm, 4) a person claiming to have a cold (or something). Depedending on the seriousness of your injury you will either get priority or be pushed to the back of the line.
The emphasize in single payer systems is on saving lifes, since the hospitals are ensured to get payed through the government. In the US either they bill you a lot or they need to first be certain you have the appropriate health insurance.
The US health system is more expensive and has worse outcome than any western industrialised nation.
Btw: the better How about the Republicans pay for the wall. About 6 billion dollars. And the Democrats pay 4 free healthcare. Free college. 38 Trillion over 10 years. would be something like how about republicans pay for the wall (about 40 billion) and get to enjoyed the benefits), while the democrats (and independents and all others that want it, for healthcare that is around 70%+) fund medicare for all, free college, ... but are the only ones enjoying the benefits of it. I can assure you, republicans would en masse change sides.
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@bruceharvey8118
But we're going to have to build more hospitals who's going to pay for that.
So, you're saying that as it stands the US doesn't have enough hospitals to help all its people? That's messed up even in the current system.
not all US citizens are taxpayers so that means more taxes on the middle class.
What? Really? 3% is unemployed, everyone else pays taxes, so that isn't a problem. And again studies showed that money will be saved and healthcare costs in nations with universal healthcare are lower, so quit talking about it being more expensive without backing from actual studies/evidence.
Every time I turn around I'm being taxed on something else.
Then you'd need to push for tax reform. And again overall people will keep more money, because while taxes go up, there will be no more other healthcare costs.
how much do you think it's going to cost the taxpayers to have free healthcare.
32 trillion over the next 10 years according to this conservative study, however the current system would cost around 34 trillion over the next 10 years. But to be fair another possibility in the study puts it (medicare for all) at 36 trillion or so. So according to the study it will depend on how it is implented. Then again this is a conservative think tank, so they might have inflated the costs a little bit, hard to tell. And medicare for all will be better for most americans. So even if the costs are a bit higher (unlikely, since the for profit would be out), health standards across the board would increase.
But again, look at other nations that implemented it, look at the data and the human improvement. Everything speaks in favor of universal healthcare.
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