Comments by "J Nagarya" (@jnagarya519) on "The Bulwark"
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"If we lived in a state where virtue was profitable, common sense would make us saintly. But since we see that avarice, anger, pride, and stupidity commonly profit far beyond charity, modesty, justice, and thought, perhaps we must stand fast a little, even at the risk of being heroes." -- Sir Thomas More, in Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons.
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@Kapk1896 Nope. It's in the first state constitutions: no one should be required to support a "religion" of which they were not an adherent.
And paying taxes authorizes one to participate in politics. "Religions" don't want politics interfering in their practices? -- then "religion" agrees to stay out of politics.
None of that is speculation or hypothesis --
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North Carolina Constitution, Begun November 12, 1776, Completed December 18, 1776.
"XXXI. That no clergyman, or preacher of the gospel, of any denomination, shall be capable of being a member of either the Senate, House of Commons, or Council of State, while he continues in the exercise of the pastoral function.
. . . .
"XXXIV. That there shall be no establishment of any one religious church or denomination in this State, in preference to any other; neither shall any person, on any pretence whatsoever, be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgment, nor be obliged to pay, for the purchase of any glebe, or the building of any house of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes right, or has voluntarily and personally engaged to perform; but all persons shall be at liberty to exercise their own mode of worship:--_Provided_, That nothing herein contained shall be construed to exempt preachers of treasonous or seditious discourses, from legal trial and punishment."
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Constitution of Georgia adopted on February 5, 1777:
"Art. LVI. All persons whatever shall have the free exercise of their religion; provided it be not repugnant to the peace and safety of the State; and shall not, unless by consent, support any teacher or teachers except those of their own profession."
"Art. LXII. No clergyman of any denomination shall be allowed a seat in the legislature."
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Constitution of New York, April 20, 1777.
XXXVIII. And whereas we are required, by the benevolent principles of rational liberty, not only to expel civil tyranny, but also to guard against that spiritual oppression and intolerance wherewith the bigotry and ambition of weak and wicked priests and princes have scourged mankind, this convention doth further, in the name and by the authority of the good people of this State, ordain, determine, and declare, that the free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination or preference, shall forever hereafter be allowed, within this State, to all mankind: Provided, That the liberty of conscience, hereby granted, shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of this State.
XXXIX. And whereas the ministers of the gospel are, by their profession, dedicated to the service of God and the care of souls, and ought not to be diverted from the great duties of their function; therefore, no minister of the gospel, or priest of any denomination whatsoever, shall, at any time hereafter, under any presence or description whatever, be eligible to, or capable of holding, any civil or military office or place within this State.
XL. And whereas it is of the utmost importance to the safety of every State that it should always be in a condition of defence; and it is the duty of every man who enjoys the protection of society to be prepared and willing to defend it; this convention therefore, in the name and by the authority of the good people of this State, doth ordain, determine, and declare that the militia of this State, at all times hereafter, as well in peace as in war, shall be armed and disciplined, and in readiness for service. That all such of the inhabitants of this State being of the people called Quakers as, from scruples of conscience, may be averse to the bearing of arms, be therefrom excused by the legislature; and do pay to the State such sums of money, in lieu of their personal service, as the same, may, in the judgment of the legislature, be worth.[FN 13] And that a proper magazine of warlike stores, proportionate to the number of inhabitants, be, forever hereafter, at the expense of this State, and by acts of the legislature, established, maintained, and continued in every county in this State.
FN 13. This exemption-fee was fixed at £10 per annum by the act of April 3, 1778, organizing the militia of the State.
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@CSRaleigh You know better than the Founders, who actually experienced religious tyranny?
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North Carolina Constitution, Begun November 12, 1776, Completed December 18, 1776.
"XXXI. That no clergyman, or preacher of the gospel, of any denomination, shall be capable of being a member of either the Senate, House of Commons, or Council of State, while he continues in the exercise of the pastoral function.
. . . .
"XXXIV. That there shall be no establishment of any one religious church or denomination in this State, in preference to any other; neither shall any person, on any pretence whatsoever, be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgment, nor be obliged to pay, for the purchase of any glebe, or the building of any house of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes right, or has voluntarily and personally engaged to perform; but all persons shall be at liberty to exercise their own mode of worship:--_Provided_, That nothing herein contained shall be construed to exempt preachers of treasonous or seditious discourses, from legal trial and punishment."
___
Constitution of Georgia adopted on February 5, 1777:
"Art. LVI. All persons whatever shall have the free exercise of their religion; provided it be not repugnant to the peace and safety of the State; and shall not, unless by consent, support any teacher or teachers except those of their own profession."
. . . .
"Art. LXII. No clergyman of any denomination shall be allowed a seat in the legislature."
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Constitution of New York, April 20, 1777.
XXXVIII. And whereas we are required, by the benevolent principles of rational liberty, not only to expel civil tyranny, but also to guard against that spiritual oppression and intolerance wherewith the bigotry and ambition of weak and wicked priests and princes have scourged mankind, this convention doth further, in the name and by the authority of the good people of this State, ordain, determine, and declare, that the free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination or preference, shall forever hereafter be allowed, within this State, to all mankind: Provided, That the liberty of conscience, hereby granted, shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of this State.
XXXIX. And whereas the ministers of the gospel are, by their profession, dedicated to the service of God and the care of souls, and ought not to be diverted from the great duties of their function; therefore, no minister of the gospel, or priest of any denomination whatsoever, shall, at any time hereafter, under any presence or description whatever, be eligible to, or capable of holding, any civil or military office or place within this State.
XL. And whereas it is of the utmost importance to the safety of every State that it should always be in a condition of defence; and it is the duty of every man who enjoys the protection of society to be prepared and willing to defend it; this convention therefore, in the name and by the authority of the good people of this State, doth ordain, determine, and declare that the militia of this State, at all times hereafter, as well in peace as in war, shall be armed and disciplined, and in readiness for service. That all such of the inhabitants of this State being of the people called Quakers as, from scruples of conscience, may be averse to the bearing of arms, be therefrom excused by the legislature; and do pay to the State such sums of money, in lieu of their personal service, as the same, may, in the judgment of the legislature, be worth.[FN 13] And that a proper magazine of warlike stores, proportionate to the number of inhabitants, be, forever hereafter, at the expense of this State, and by acts of the legislature, established, maintained, and continued in every county in this State.
FN 13. This exemption-fee was fixed at £10 per annum by the act of April 3, 1778, organizing the militia of the State.
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@solly119119 Because they are ignorant of the far-Left history of the 1960s -- in which Sanders is stuck.
The far-Left in the 1960s, lead by the street "theater" and violence of Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin, got NIXON elected.
And they continue to LIE about Sanders -- who alienated the largest block of Democratic voters, the "centrists," by calling them "corrupt". So the majority of ACTUAL Democratic voters voted for the ACTUAL Democrat, Hillary Clinton -- who turned out to be exactly right about Trump.
And they perpetuated the "thumb on the scale" LIE Sanders made up. But there were other problems with their vehement denials of fact:
Manafort had a partner in Ukraine, and they together -- also using hacked emails -- got the pro-Russian president elected there.
Manafort became head of Trump's campaign, and his partner head of the Sanders campaign. He was forced to resign when the Sanders campaign got caught hacking the DNC.
Sanders, like Trump, smeared Clinton with REPUBLICAN lies. And Sanders stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Trump with his own serial lying about releasing his tax returns. In contrast: on the same day that Hillary declared her candidacy she released 30 YEARS of her tax returns.
And then the whiny "Bernie Bros," being immature assholes, vowed to "blow up the system," voted for Sanders' exact opposite extreme -- Trump -- and there went _Roe_.
So Sanders, Russia, Comey, Sanders' "fans," helped elect Trump, exactly as the far-Left of Hoffman and Rubin helped elect Nixon.
And it was peculiar all along: Hillary had supporters -- which is normal. But both Sanders and Trump had "fans". The term "fans" is derived from the word "fanatic"; and applies to entertainers and celebrities -- not to the deadly serious of politics.
And both of the latter responded identically to criticisms of Sanders and Trump -- by sidestepping criticisms and directly attacking the critic.
And I note that Sanders has yet to endorse Harris. What is he waiting for?
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@solly119119 Just before the pandemic, comments began appearing online that "Boomers" need to be "offed".
It was the "Boomers" who -- among other accomplishments -- did the following:
Got the US out of Vietnam.
Ended the draft.
Mainstreamed the environmental movement -- which is why those 20-somethings know of it. (I learned of climate change in junior high science during the late 1950s-early 1960s.
Showed that a president -- and vice-president -- could be "got".
Sanders' politics are the "New Left" -- FAR-Left -- politics of the 1960s. I was there; I knew Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin, and had disagreements with them: my view was and is that humans are social beings; theirs was that humans are political beings. I still point out that politics doesn't happen until humans come together socially.
I saw firsthand how they operated: somehow they managed to have the media show up just after they provoked the police into violence -- so the media only saw the cops doing the clubbings. That, and the street chaos they generated, ALIENATED those we needed to end US involvement in Vietnam: the blue-collar voters. As result they voted for NIXON.
If you look at the Sanders campaign OBJECCTIVELY you'll see that he attacked Clinton with REPUBLICAN/Right-wing smears -- while she didn't attack Sanders -- essentially double-teaming her with Trump.
And you'll see that BOTH Sanders and Trump serially lied about releasing their tax returns, whereas Clinton, on the day she declared her candidacy, released 30 YEARS of her tax returns.
Clinton had supporters. Sanders and Trump had "fans". Celebrities, entertainers, have "fans".
Sanders sold pie-in-the-sky -- exactly as had Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin. So the politically naive Sanders supports bought into the pie-in-the-sky.
And then when Sanders LOST the primary by ALIENATING the largest block of ACTUAL Democrats -- the "Centrists" -- the "Bernie Bros" vowed to "blow up the system" -- and voted for Sanders' exact opposite extremist TRUMP.
So Sanders, and his politically-STUPID "fans" elected TRUMP -- and how "progressive" were the results? Roe has been overturned, Chevron has been overturned, and "Project 2025" is on the table.
Very simple and obvious answer: Sanders vowed to destroy the DEMOCRATIC Party -- NOT the REPUBLICAN Party. And where are we again with Biden v. Trump? And the far-left political assholes, falsely claiming to be "progressives," joined him in jumping off the cliff.
I don't object to them jumping off the cliff -- I've seen it before. I DO object to them pulling all the rest of us off the cliff with them.
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@Rain_Reign I've been working online for the rule of law since before there was an Internet.
I've been working specifically for, since the late 1980s and into the 1990s, for gun control. There was one other person doing that, but he and his fiancé transferred to a different university and I lost touch with him. So I continued alone.
More than 30 years later the number of people who recognize the NRA's (and Supreme Court's in Heller ) lies about the Second Amendment for what they are has increased. It is interesting how effective one can be across at minimum the US via the Internet: there are people who prefer facts to disinformation and out-and-out junk there is online.
This is one I've been posting since 2016ish:
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"No Collusion"?
Trump's July 27, 2016 Solicitation of Crime with Russia.
This is Webster's definition of "collusion":
"Secret agreement or cooperation for a fraudulent or deceitful purpose".
How many Trump campaign members lied about their contacts with Russians during the Trump-Putin COLLUSION?
THIS IS THE LAW:
The Model Penal Code defines solicitation as commanding, encouraging, or requesting another person to engage in conduct that constitutes a crime or an attempt to commit a crime (with the intent that the crime be committed). Model Penal Code S. 5.02(1) (1962). Generally the code provides that solicitation be as punishable as the crime solicited. Id. at S. 5.05(1). Law Dictionary, Giffis, at 446.
THIS IS THE EVIDENCE:
We have Trump on video, in broad daylight, soliciting Russia:
"Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing."
To "find" those emails required computer hacking. Computer hacking is a felony.
In fact, he solicited a series of felonies, beginning with computer hacking and stealing private property, through to receiving and possessing that stolen property.
And we know that on the same day as Trump's solicitation, within hours thereafter, Russia hacked computers and stole the emails. That made Trump a co-conspirator with Russia.
That conspiracy is an additional felony.
____________
PLEASE CIRCULATE INTACT.
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Shapiro needs to be governor to protect the election -- at which he already has experience from 2020-21.
There are too many focused on their own interests, their own middle-/upper-middle class privilege who embrace him as their own, while ignoring the greater good. And that's what makes them exclusionary Republicans who condescend and rail against progressives.
Inform yourself, instead of substituting reactionary anti-gov't Republican ideology for actual history -- the "classical liberalism" -- of the Founders:
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Recommended reading:
The Evolution of the Constitution of the United States: Showing that it is a Development of Progressive History and not an Isolated Document Struck Off at a Given Time or an Imitation of English or Dutch Forms of Government. (Philadelphia: J. B. Lippincott, 1897; Delanco, NJ: The Legal Classics Library, 2003), Sydney George Fisher.
Fisher [1856-1927] was a prominent historian and lawyer, who was admitted to the Pennsylvania bar in 1883 after legal studies at Harvard University. His Evolution of the Constitution collates for the first time all the various provisions of colonial documents that served as source material for the Constitution. Asserting that the Constitution was neither an imitation nor an invention, Fisher traces every material clause back to its origin. Twenty-nine colonial charters and constitutions, seventeen Revolutionary constitutions, and twenty-three plans of union are the resulting source materials from which Fisher draws his analysis. Abundant quotations from the sixty-nine documents illustrate the evolutionary nature of the Constitution and make this a valuable sourcebook for the reader who desires to find in one volume the Constitution's many and varied origins.
"The Lawbook Exchange" edition:
https://www.lawbookexchange.com/pages/books/16258/sydney-george-fisher/the-evolution-of-the-constitution-of-the-united-states-showing-that
Library of Congress -- Complete volume PDF:
https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/public/gdcmassbookdig/evolutionofconst01fish/evolutionofconst01fish.pdf
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The "taboo" against political violence is IN THE CONSTITUTION.
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No law protects private/fake "militia"
This chronology illustrates both the evolution, elaboration, and increasing specificity of law, and its continued consistency over centuries:
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Militia Act from October 1658 (rendered in contemporary spelling):
"Military, [S.] 11. . . . It is Further Ordered, that henceforth all warrants for impressing [e.g., DRAFTING] & raising of soldiers for any expedition, shall be directed to the Committee of militia of the several Towns who may execute the same by the Constable & the said Committee are hereby impowered & required to suppress all raising of soldiers, but such as shall be by the authority of this government."
For emphasis:
"the said Committee are hereby impowered & required to SUPPRESS all raising of soldiers, but such as shall be by the authority of this government."
The Colonial Laws of Massachusetts. Reprinted from the Edition of 1660, with the Supplements to 1672. Containing Also, the Body of Liberties of 1641. (Boston: Rockwell & Churchill, City Printers, Published by Order of the City Council of Boston, 1889), William H. Whitmore, Record Commissioner, at 179.
In the above, "Committee of Militia" is part of the town gov't. Above the town gov't and "Committee" was a military command structure, in law, which included, at the top, the governor as commander-in-chief of the Militia. The governor was not going to "take up arms" against the gov't/himself.
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Rendered in contemporary spelling:
At a GENERAL COURT Held at Boston the 3d of May 1676.
This COURT taking into Consideration the great Disappointment the Country hath suffered by reason of non-appearance of Soldiers Impressed [DRAFTED] for several expeditions: Do judge meet that every person Impressed [DRAFTED] as a Soldier for the Service of the Country, and neglecting to make his appearance according to Order: every such Foot Soldier shall pay the sum of four Pounds, and every Trooper shall pay the sum of six Pounds: and if their neglects or refusal be accompanied with Refractoriness, Reflection or Contempt upon Authority, such person shall be punished with Death, or some other Grievous punishment.
And the Committee of Militia in the several Towns where the offence is committed are hereby impowered and required to call before them all such as shall be Delinquents as is above expressed, and on Conviction of their neglect to give Warrant to the Constable to levy the said fines, which said fines shall be improved to purchase Arms for the Towns use; Provided it shall be in the power of the Council upon Petition of any person aggrieved, and just reason alleged and proved to make abatement of the said fines as in their wisdom and discretion they shall judge meet. And it is hereby Ordered that the return of all neglects and defects in the cases aforesaid, be sent to the Committee of Militia in the several Towns, who are hereby required to take care for the strict Execution hereof.
By the COURT Edward Rawson Secr.
The Colonial Laws of Massachusetts. Reprinted from the Edition of 1672, With the Supplements Through 1686. (Boston, MA: Rockwell and Churchill, City Printers, 1890), Edited by William H. Whitmore, at 343.
Law REGULATES -- which includes imposition of PENALTIES.
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The "Declaration of Independence," which applied exclusively to England, includes a list of grievances against King George III, these two of which are directly on point:
"He has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the consent of our Legislatures."
"Legislatures" MAKE LAW, which REGULATE.
"He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power."
"Civil Power" is the gov't, which is by definition rule of law. As John Adams, who participated in writing the "Declaration," and authored the Massachusetts constitution, said: "A system of Laws, and not of men."
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June 21, 1788: Ratification of the US Constitution completed:
"Art. I., S. 8., C. 15. The CONGRESS shall have Power To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute [ENFORCE] the Laws of the Union, SUPPRESS INSURRECTIONS, and repel Invasions."
"Art. I., S. 8., C. 16. The CONGRESS shall have Power To provide for organizing, ARMING, and disciplining, the Militia . . . reserving to the States [GOV'TS] respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed BY CONGRESS."
"Art. 4, S. 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and . . . against domestic Violence."
"Amendment I. Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . . the right of the people PEACEABLY to assemble."
"Amendment XIV., S. 3. No person . . . who, having previously taken an oath . . . to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof", shall be eligible for any US or state gov't office, civil or military.
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The first Congress, both House and Senate, under the newly-ratified Constitution, debated and wrote the proposed Bill of Rights. The Debates of that which became the Second Amendment show its purpose was to establish a National Defense relying on the well-regulated Militia -- standing armies being feared.
September 28, 1789: Proposed Bill of Rights submitted to the states for consideration and ratification consisted of TWELVE proposed amendments; the first two were rejected, making the 3rd the 1st, and making the 4th the 2nd.
December 15, 1791: Ratification of remaining Ten Amendments completed.
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Constitutional provisions are implemented by means of statutes:
May 2, 1792: "An Act to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute [ENFORCE] the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions."
May 8, 1792: "An Act more effectually to provide for the National Defense by establishing an Uniform Militia throughout the United States."
More than two years AFTER the Second Amendment was ratified, Congress enacted a Militia Act in response to the "Whiskey" insurrection:
November 29, 1794: "An Act to authorize the President to call out and station a corps of Militia, in the four western Counties of Pennsylvania, for a limited time."
And this is how, per Art. I., S. 8., C. 16, the Militia is ARMED:
July 6, 1798: "An Act providing Arms for the Militia throughout the United States.
Section 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That there shall be provided, at the charge and expense of the government of the United States, thirty thousand stand of arms, which shall be deposited by order of the President of the United States, at suitable places, for the purpose of being sold to the governments of the respective States, or the militia thereof, under such regulations, and at such prices as the President of the United States shall prescribe. . . .
___
Source of all US statutes above: The Public Statutes at Large of the United States of America, from the Organization of the Government in 1789, to March 2, 1845. Vol. I. (Boston: Charles C. Little and James Brown, 1845), By Authority of Congress, Edited by Richard Peters.
___
From Supreme Court decision _Presser v. Illinois_, 116 U.S. 252 (1886):
"(115) . . . . It cannot be successfully questioned that the state governments, unless restrained by their own constitutions . . . have . . . the power to control and regulate the organization, drilling, and parading of military bodies and associations . . . . (116) The exercise of this power by the states is necessary to the public peace, safety, and good order. To deny the power would be to deny the right of the state to disperse assemblages organized for sedition and treason, and the right to suppress armed mobs bent on riot and rapine."
___
From _District of Columbia v. Heller_, 554 U.S. 570, 621 (2008) citing _Presser_:
The Second Amendment "does not prevent the prohibition of private paramilitary organizations".
___
In fact, all 50 states classify such fake "militia" as "paramilitaries" and PROHIBIT them.
Pick your state:
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-work/addressing-the-rise-of-unlawful-private-paramilitaries/state-fact-sheets/
___
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The NRA's Two Second Amendment Lies
The gun industry political front NRA tells two lies about the intent of the Second Amendment.
1. That the Second Amendment protects an "individual" "right" to possess guns.
Comparison with the several prior Supreme Court decisions, and the legislative history -- the Congress' Debates of the writing of the Amendment, which are LEGAL AUTHORITY -- shows that Scalia's "Heller" decision is an outlier. In "Heller" he falsely held that the Amendment protects an individual right -- for which he was excoriated by legal experts across the political spectrum for ignoring this adjudicatory standard:
When a conflict over the interpretation of a law cannot be resolved within the text of the law, one reverts to the legislative history of the law -- in this instance Congress' Debates of the writing of the Amendment.
The facts from those Debates:
The subject of the Amendment is well regulated Militia, and its purpose to establish a National Defense, relying on that Militia. The Militia is not an individual, and is a public institution, regulated under both Federal and state constitutions and laws; thus the Amendment is irrelevant to the issue of private, individual gun ownership:
James Madison is called "the father of the Constitution," and the gun industry/NRA claims that Madison wrote the Second Amendment. If both of those are facts, then the word "people" is consistent in meaning from beginning of the Constitution to the end of the first 10 Amendments. The first three words of the Constitution are "We the people," not, "We the individual".
This is the first draft of that which became the Second Amendment, which the gun industry/NRA calls the "Madison" Amendment -- but which it never quotes. [Here I clarify it for the logic-impaired]:
"The right of the people [PLURAL] to keep and bear arms [this phrase is the well-regulated Militia, and was drawn from four state constitution Militia Clauses] shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person [INDIVIDUAL] religiously scrupulous of [AGAINST] bearing arms [in well-regulated Militia] shall be compelled [INVOLUNTARY] to render military service [in well-regulated Militia] in person."
Source: Creating the Bill of Rights: The Documentary Record from the First Federal Congress (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, Paperback, 1991), Edited by Helen E Veit, et al., at 12. (This volume is readily available from Amazon.)
Note the word "compelled": Militia service was a DUTY -- not a "right". And note the words "people" and "person": if a person -- individual -- claimed "religious" exemption from that DUTY, his case was scrutinized individually.
The only "individual" "right" Congress debated was that last clause -- "but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service" -- and it was obviously dropped from the proposed Amendment before it was ratified. Thus the Second Amendment obviously does not protect "individual" ANYTHING.
Only by ignoring the legislative history -- Congress' Debates of the writing of the Amendment, which are LEGAL AUTHORITY -- could Scalia falsely hold that the Amendment protects an "individual" "right".
2. That the purpose of the Amendment was to establish a "right" to "take up arms" against the gov't -- which is refuted by the Constitution itself:
Art. I., S. 8., C. 15. The Congress shall have Power To provide for calling forth the Militia to . . . SUPPRESS INSURRECTIONS.
The Founders themselves twice established the precedent on the point:
Under the Articles of Confederation, "Shays's" rebellion was suppressed by the state's legitimate well-regulated Militia, and the rebels charged with, tried for, and convicted of, TREASON, and sentenced to death.
And under the Constitution, AFTER the Second Amendment was ratified, the "Whiskey" rebellion was suppressed by Federalized Militia, lead by George Washington, and the rebels charged with, tried for, and convicted of, TREASON, and sentenced to death.
The Congress, as a co-equal branch of gov't, has the authority and power to overturn Supreme Court decisions.
Overturn "Heller".
PLEASE CIRCULATE INTACT.
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This is the history Trump doesn't know --
___
No law protects private/fake "militia"
This chronology illustrates both the evolution, elaboration, and increasing specificity of law, and its continued consistency over centuries:
____
Militia Act from October 1658 (rendered in contemporary spelling):
"Military, [S.] 11. . . . It is Further Ordered, that henceforth all warrants for impressing [e.g., DRAFTING] & raising of soldiers for any expedition, shall be directed to the Committee of militia of the several Towns who may execute the same by the Constable & the said Committee are hereby impowered & required to suppress all raising of soldiers, but such as shall be by the authority of this government."
For emphasis:
"the said Committee are hereby impowered & required to SUPPRESS all raising of soldiers, but such as shall be by the authority of this government."
The Colonial Laws of Massachusetts. Reprinted from the Edition of 1660, with the Supplements to 1672. Containing Also, the Body of Liberties of 1641. (Boston: Rockwell & Churchill, City Printers, Published by Order of the City Council of Boston, 1889), William H. Whitmore, Record Commissioner, at 179.
In the above, "Committee of Militia" is part of the town gov't. Above the town gov't and "Committee" was a military command structure, in law, which included, at the top, the governor as commander-in-chief of the Militia. The governor was not going to "take up arms" against the gov't/himself.
___
Rendered in contemporary spelling:
At a GENERAL COURT Held at Boston the 3d of May 1676.
This COURT taking into Consideration the great Disappointment the Country hath suffered by reason of non-appearance of Soldiers Impressed [DRAFTED] for several expeditions: Do judge meet that every person Impressed [DRAFTED] as a Soldier for the Service of the Country, and neglecting to make his appearance according to Order: every such Foot Soldier shall pay the sum of four Pounds, and every Trooper shall pay the sum of six Pounds: and if their neglects or refusal be accompanied with Refractoriness, Reflection or Contempt upon Authority, such person shall be punished with Death, or some other Grievous punishment.
And the Committee of Militia in the several Towns where the offence is committed are hereby impowered and required to call before them all such as shall be Delinquents as is above expressed, and on Conviction of their neglect to give Warrant to the Constable to levy the said fines, which said fines shall be improved to purchase Arms for the Towns use; Provided it shall be in the power of the Council upon Petition of any person aggrieved, and just reason alleged and proved to make abatement of the said fines as in their wisdom and discretion they shall judge meet. And it is hereby Ordered that the return of all neglects and defects in the cases aforesaid, be sent to the Committee of Militia in the several Towns, who are hereby required to take care for the strict Execution hereof.
By the COURT Edward Rawson Secr.
The Colonial Laws of Massachusetts. Reprinted from the Edition of 1672, With the Supplements Through 1686. (Boston, MA: Rockwell and Churchill, City Printers, 1890), Edited by William H. Whitmore, at 343.
Law REGULATES -- which includes imposition of PENALTIES.
___
The "Declaration of Independence," which applied exclusively to England, includes a list of grievances against King George III, these two of which are directly on point:
"He has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the consent of our Legislatures."
"Legislatures" MAKE LAW, which REGULATE.
"He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power."
"Civil Power" is the gov't, which is by definition rule of law. As John Adams, who participated in writing the "Declaration," and authored the Massachusetts constitution, said: "A system of Laws, and not of men."
___
June 21, 1788: Ratification of the US Constitution completed:
"Art. I., S. 8., C. 15. The CONGRESS shall have Power To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute [ENFORCE] the Laws of the Union, SUPPRESS INSURRECTIONS, and repel Invasions."
"Art. I., S. 8., C. 16. The CONGRESS shall have Power To provide for organizing, ARMING, and disciplining, the Militia . . . reserving to the States [GOV'TS] respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed BY CONGRESS."
"Art. 4, S. 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and . . . against domestic Violence."
"Amendment I. Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . . the right of the people PEACEABLY to assemble."
"Amendment XIV., S. 3. No person . . . who, having previously taken an oath . . . to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof", shall be eligible for any US or state gov't office, civil or military.
___
The first Congress, both House and Senate, under the newly-ratified Constitution, debated and wrote the proposed Bill of Rights. The Debates of that which became the Second Amendment show its purpose was to establish a National Defense relying on the well-regulated Militia -- standing armies being feared.
September 28, 1789: Proposed Bill of Rights submitted to the states for consideration and ratification consisted of TWELVE proposed amendments; the first two were rejected, making the 3rd the 1st, and making the 4th the 2nd.
December 15, 1791: Ratification of remaining Ten Amendments completed.
___
Constitutional provisions are implemented by means of statutes:
May 2, 1792: "An Act to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute [ENFORCE] the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions."
May 8, 1792: "An Act more effectually to provide for the National Defense by establishing an Uniform Militia throughout the United States."
More than two years AFTER the Second Amendment was ratified, Congress enacted a Militia Act in response to the "Whiskey" insurrection:
November 29, 1794: "An Act to authorize the President to call out and station a corps of Militia, in the four western Counties of Pennsylvania, for a limited time."
And this is how, per Art. I., S. 8., C. 16, the Militia is ARMED:
July 6, 1798: "An Act providing Arms for the Militia throughout the United States.
Section 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That there shall be provided, at the charge and expense of the government of the United States, thirty thousand stand of arms, which shall be deposited by order of the President of the United States, at suitable places, for the purpose of being sold to the governments of the respective States, or the militia thereof, under such regulations, and at such prices as the President of the United States shall prescribe. . . .
___
Source of all US statutes above: The Public Statutes at Large of the United States of America, from the Organization of the Government in 1789, to March 2, 1845. Vol. I. (Boston: Charles C. Little and James Brown, 1845), By Authority of Congress, Edited by Richard Peters.
___
From Supreme Court decision _Presser v. Illinois_, 116 U.S. 252 (1886):
"(115) . . . . It cannot be successfully questioned that the state governments, unless restrained by their own constitutions . . . have . . . the power to control and regulate the organization, drilling, and parading of military bodies and associations . . . . (116) The exercise of this power by the states is necessary to the public peace, safety, and good order. To deny the power would be to deny the right of the state to disperse assemblages organized for sedition and treason, and the right to suppress armed mobs bent on riot and rapine."
___
From _District of Columbia v. Heller_, 554 U.S. 570, 621 (2008) citing _Presser_:
The Second Amendment "does not prevent the prohibition of private paramilitary organizations".
___
In fact, all 50 states classify such fake "militia" as "paramilitaries" and PROHIBIT them.
Pick your state:
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-work/addressing-the-rise-of-unlawful-private-paramilitaries/state-fact-sheets/
___
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This is how the Founders put the subjectivist objectivity-rejecting "religious" seditionists in their place:
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From the North Carolina constitution adopted on December 18, 1776:
"XXXI. That no clergyman, or preacher of the gospel, of any denomination, shall be capable of being a member of either the Senate, House of Commons, or Council of State, while he continues in the exercise of the pastoral function.
. . . .
"XXXIV. That there shall be no establishment of any one religious church or denomination in this State, in preference to any other; neither shall any person, on any pretence whatsoever, be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgment, nor be obliged to pay, for the purchase of any glebe, or the building of any house of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes right, or has voluntarily and personally engaged to perform; but all persons shall be at liberty to exercise their own mode of worship:--_Provided_, That nothing herein contained shall be construed to exempt preachers of treasonous or seditious discourses, from legal trial and punishment."
___
From the constitution of Georgia adopted on February 5, 1777:
"Art. LVI. All persons whatever shall have the free exercise of their religion; provided it be not repugnant to the peace and safety of the State; and shall not, unless by consent, support any teacher or teachers except those of their own profession."
"Art. LXII. No clergyman of any denomination shall be allowed a seat in the legislature."
___
From New York constitution adopted on April 20. 1777:
XXXIX. And whereas the ministers of the gospel are, by their profession, dedicated to the service of God and the care of souls, and ought not to be diverted from the great duties of their function; therefore, no minister of the gospel, or priest of any denomination whatsoever, shall, at any time hereafter, under any pretence or description whatever, be eligible to, or capable of holding, any civil or military office or place within this State.
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Those provisions, and their equivalents in the other state constitutions, eventuated in the First Amendment separation of "religion" and gov't.
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@karenkalweit6018 I was politically aware long before Reagan. And for Nixon. And was immersed in the "Watergate" hearings and outcomes.
Reagan INITIATED the anti-gov't SEDITION. And per the Constitution "We the people" are the gov't. And that's what we've seen from the Republican Party OF, BY, and FOR WEALTH AND POWER FOR MANY DECADES.
Keep learning about who in the Nixon administration were also in the Reagan administration, and what THEY were about -- including Ailes, Stone, and Rumsfeld.
And it was G. DUI Bushit who nominated Roberts and Alito to the Federal Court -- in behalf of the radically extremist right-wing "Federalist Society".
The Justices Trump also "chose" for the Supreme are ALSO ALL "Federalist Society". They REJECT democracy, and the rule of law itself, as they reveal in the "immunity" decision, which is entirely un- and anti-Constitutional.
And all of that was set-up by Reagan, and further facilitated by Bushit/Cheney, and McCain by "elevating" the incompetent lowlife Palin.
And it Reaganite Steve Schmidt admits that HE was responsible for getting Gorsuch and Alito and Palin through to where they got and are. But suddenly he is against the very thing he helped bring to fruition.
What is it about Republicans that consequences is too big a word for their comprehension?
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Michael Steele chose to be in the heart of the beast. He chose to be in the face of the white supremacists at the core of the Republican Party.
That's why I, a Democrat, love Michael Steele. I've been, as a white man, doing the same thing since 3rd grade, in 1957, when I first heard Lincoln's principle. "Everybody equal before the law."
Lincoln was my hero, I was a Republican, until JFK and his humanitarian and civil rights initiatives. Lincoln is still there, but so is Republican Mark Twain, who publicly resigned from the Republican Party because he was opposed to racism.
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@garybryson1900 The Federal gov't is a system of laws; gov't is by definition rule of law. And the Constitution is the SUPREME Law of the Land.
But of course you wouldn't know what's in the Constitution because you can't be bothered to actually READ that which you reject.
And the Confederacy -- despite all the LYING by the south's FAKE "historians," was about preserving SLAVERY. So that's what you are defending by rejecting the Constitution.
Where in the Constitution is secession prohibited?
"Art. I., S. 8., C. 15. The CONGRESS shall have Power To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute [ENFORCE] the Laws of the Union, SUPPRESS INSURRECTIONS, and repel Invasions."
"Art. I., S. 8., C. 16. The Congress shall have Power To provide for organizing, ARMING, and disciplining, the Militia . . . reserving to the States respectively the Appointment of the Officers [state constitutions stipulate that the governor is the commander-in-chief and shall appoint or nominate the officers with the consent of the state legislature], and the Authority of training the Militia in accordance with the discipline prescribed [IN Federal Militia Acts] BY CONGRESS.
Constitutional provisions are implemented by means of statutes. Here are two of those:
May 2, 1792: "An Act to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute [ENFORCE] the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions."
May 8, 1792: "An Act more effectually to provide for the National Defense by establishing an Uniform Militia throughout the United States."
More than two years AFTER the Second Amendment was ratified, Congress enacted a Militia Act in response to the "Whiskey" insurrection:
November 29, 1794: "An Act to authorize the President to call out and station a corps of Militia, in the four western Counties of Pennsylvania, for a limited time."
Thus the Constitution provides the United States gov't, the Union, the authority to protect the United States, the Union, against political violence such as the insurrection committed against the Union by the seceding states/Confederacy.
And read the Treason Clause:
"Art. III, S. 3., C. 1. Treason against the United States [i.e., the Union], shall consist only in levying War against them ["them" being the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."
The Southern states seceded -- their Senators made speeches on the Senate floor declaring why: to preserve slavery. And those states formed the Confederacy, which levied War against the United States.
Art. IV. S. 3, C. I. New States be admitted by the Congress [for secession to be Constitutional it would have to be the reverse of that process: authorized by Congress] into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned AS WELL AS OF THE CONGRESS."
The status of states in relation to the Union is under the jurisdiction of Congress; and the Constitution is SUPREME over the states.
S. 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and . . . against domestic Violence.
"Art. VI., S. 2. This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof . . . shall be the supreme Law of the Land . . . any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."
And the First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . . the right of the people PEACEABLY to assemble."
Thus Congress has the authority, as made clear in multiple places in the Constitution, to make laws prohibiting violence, and to enforce the laws by suppressing violence by use of whatever force is necessary to do so.
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Let's just say that George, based on his own admission, can afford to have "integrity, morals and ethics" that he didn't have when a Republican operative focused on the bottom line of getting rich and electing Republicans like G. DUI Bushit, Dick "Dick" Cheney, and Sarah Palin -- which list of incompetents and nasties eventuated in Trump.
And all that trend originated with Reagan's implementation of the anti-gov't sedition, especially against civil rights of minorities.
And Tim and the other "moderate" Republicans continue their addiction to the Reagan fraud. He was a celebrity, He had "glamor". And Nancy advised him based on her consultations with an astrologer.
These are people of privilege who put their privilege first. After that they talk about caring about morals and integrity, and blah-blah-blah.
Conway was married -- for many years -- to the nastiest b*tch on the planet. Only after she exposed what she is publicly, at length, as Trump's viciously abusive harpy did Conway decide to get away from her -- why would anyone want to be PUBLICLY known to have such an association. But you can bet she was instrumental in him becoming wealthy.
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Pay attention to reality -- the COURTS are telling you the nature of the crimes. And here is what you voted for -- against the Constitution based on a right that began in the Colonies:
___
Wong Kim Ark and Birthright Citizenship
April 9, 1866: First US Civil Rights Act: defined citizenship: All persons born in the US, and not subject to any foreign power, are citizens of the US.
July 9, 1868: 14th Amendment ratified. All persons born or naturalized in the US, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the US and of the State wherein they reside."
May 6, 1882: Chinese Exclusion Act: First major US law to restrict immigration based on nationality. Banned Chinese laborers from entering US for 10 years, required Chinese travelers to carry certificate identifying status, prohibited Chinese immigrants from becoming citizens, and called for deportation of Chinese who arrived after 1880.
March 28, 1898: US Supreme Court decision: United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 US 649.
Facts of the case
Wong Kim Ark was born in San Francisco to parents who were both Chinese citizens who resided in the US at the time. At age 21, he returned to China to visit his parents who had previously resided in the US for 20 years. When he returned to the US he was denied entry on the ground that he was not a citizen.
Question
Is a child born in the US to Chinese-citizen parents who are lawful permanent residents of the US a US citizen under the 14th Amendment Citizenship Clause?
Conclusion
Because Wong was born in the US and his parents were not "employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China," the 14th Amendment Citizenship Clause automatically makes him a US citizen.
Justice Horace Gray authored the opinion on behalf of a 6-2 majority.
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@shadowfox9490 If one adheres to fact and law, the objective, then the conclusions cannot be only "one's own".
If those who have objective information -- fact and law -- provide it, then they are not indoctrinating or preaching. There is truth and actual information that can be relied upon.
"I hope you practice what you preach" -- can one blow off other's "opinion" if that opinion is founded on objective fact and law? This is an example of the work I've been doing, for more than 30 years, as a person with an education in law:
___
No law protects private/fake "militia"
This chronology illustrates both the evolution, elaboration, and increasing specificity of law, and its continued consistency over centuries:
____
Militia Act from October 1658 (rendered in contemporary spelling):
"Military, [S.] 11. . . . It is Further Ordered, that henceforth all warrants for impressing [e.g., DRAFTING] & raising of soldiers for any expedition, shall be directed to the Committee of militia of the several Towns who may execute the same by the Constable & the said Committee are hereby impowered & required to suppress all raising of soldiers, but such as shall be by the authority of this government."
For emphasis:
"the said Committee are hereby impowered & required to SUPPRESS all raising of soldiers, but such as shall be by the authority of this government."
The Colonial Laws of Massachusetts. Reprinted from the Edition of 1660, with the Supplements to 1672. Containing Also, the Body of Liberties of 1641. (Boston: Rockwell & Churchill, City Printers, Published by Order of the City Council of Boston, 1889), William H. Whitmore, Record Commissioner, at 179.
In the above, "Committee of Militia" is part of the town gov't. Above the town gov't and "Committee" was a military command structure, in law, which included, at the top, the governor as commander-in-chief of the Militia. The governor was not going to "take up arms" against the gov't/himself.
___
Rendered in contemporary spelling:
At a GENERAL COURT Held at Boston the 3d of May 1676.
This COURT taking into Consideration the great Disappointment the Country hath suffered by reason of non-appearance of Soldiers Impressed [DRAFTED] for several expeditions: Do judge meet that every person Impressed [DRAFTED] as a Soldier for the Service of the Country, and neglecting to make his appearance according to Order: every such Foot Soldier shall pay the sum of four Pounds, and every Trooper shall pay the sum of six Pounds: and if their neglects or refusal be accompanied with Refractoriness, Reflection or Contempt upon Authority, such person shall be punished with Death, or some other Grievous punishment.
And the Committee of Militia in the several Towns where the offence is committed are hereby impowered and required to call before them all such as shall be Delinquents as is above expressed, and on Conviction of their neglect to give Warrant to the Constable to levy the said fines, which said fines shall be improved to purchase Arms for the Towns use; Provided it shall be in the power of the Council upon Petition of any person aggrieved, and just reason alleged and proved to make abatement of the said fines as in their wisdom and discretion they shall judge meet. And it is hereby Ordered that the return of all neglects and defects in the cases aforesaid, be sent to the Committee of Militia in the several Towns, who are hereby required to take care for the strict Execution hereof.
By the COURT Edward Rawson Secr.
The Colonial Laws of Massachusetts. Reprinted from the Edition of 1672, With the Supplements Through 1686. (Boston, MA: Rockwell and Churchill, City Printers, 1890), Edited by William H. Whitmore, at 343.
Law REGULATES -- which includes imposition of PENALTIES.
___
The "Declaration of Independence," which applied exclusively to England, includes a list of grievances against King George III, these two of which are directly on point:
"He has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the consent of our Legislatures."
"Legislatures" MAKE LAW, which REGULATE.
"He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power."
"Civil Power" is the gov't, which is by definition rule of law. As John Adams, who participated in writing the "Declaration," and authored the Massachusetts constitution, said: "A system of Laws, and not of men."
___
June 21, 1788: Ratification of the US Constitution completed:
"Art. I., S. 8., C. 15. The CONGRESS shall have Power To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute [ENFORCE] the Laws of the Union, SUPPRESS INSURRECTIONS, and repel Invasions."
"Art. I., S. 8., C. 16. The CONGRESS shall have Power To provide for organizing, ARMING, and disciplining, the Militia . . . reserving to the States [GOV'TS] respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed BY CONGRESS."
"Art. 4, S. 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and . . . against domestic Violence."
"Amendment I. Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . . the right of the people PEACEABLY to assemble."
"Amendment XIV., S. 3. No person . . . who, having previously taken an oath . . . to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof", shall be eligible for any US or state gov't office, civil or military.
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The first Congress, both House and Senate, under the newly-ratified Constitution, debated and wrote the proposed Bill of Rights. The Debates of that which became the Second Amendment show its purpose was to establish a National Defense relying on the well-regulated Militia -- standing armies being feared.
September 28, 1789: Proposed Bill of Rights submitted to the states for consideration and ratification consisted of TWELVE proposed amendments; the first two were rejected, making the 3rd the 1st, and making the 4th the 2nd.
December 15, 1791: Ratification of remaining Ten Amendments completed.
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Constitutional provisions are implemented by means of statutes:
May 2, 1792: "An Act to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute [ENFORCE] the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions."
May 8, 1792: "An Act more effectually to provide for the National Defense by establishing an Uniform Militia throughout the United States."
More than two years AFTER the Second Amendment was ratified, Congress enacted a Militia Act in response to the "Whiskey" insurrection:
November 29, 1794: "An Act to authorize the President to call out and station a corps of Militia, in the four western Counties of Pennsylvania, for a limited time."
And this is how, per Art. I., S. 8., C. 16, the Militia is ARMED:
July 6, 1798: "An Act providing Arms for the Militia throughout the United States.
Section 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That there shall be provided, at the charge and expense of the government of the United States, thirty thousand stand of arms, which shall be deposited by order of the President of the United States, at suitable places, for the purpose of being sold to the governments of the respective States, or the militia thereof, under such regulations, and at such prices as the President of the United States shall prescribe. . . .
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Source of all US statutes above: The Public Statutes at Large of the United States of America, from the Organization of the Government in 1789, to March 2, 1845. Vol. I. (Boston: Charles C. Little and James Brown, 1845), By Authority of Congress, Edited by Richard Peters.
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From Supreme Court decision _Presser v. Illinois_, 116 U.S. 252 (1886):
"(115) . . . . It cannot be successfully questioned that the state governments, unless restrained by their own constitutions . . . have . . . the power to control and regulate the organization, drilling, and parading of military bodies and associations . . . . (116) The exercise of this power by the states is necessary to the public peace, safety, and good order. To deny the power would be to deny the right of the state to disperse assemblages organized for sedition and treason, and the right to suppress armed mobs bent on riot and rapine."
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From _District of Columbia v. Heller_, 554 U.S. 570, 621 (2008) citing _Presser_:
The Second Amendment "does not prevent the prohibition of private paramilitary organizations".
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In fact, all 50 states classify such fake "militia" as "paramilitaries" and PROHIBIT them.
Pick your state:
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-work/addressing-the-rise-of-unlawful-private-paramilitaries/state-fact-sheets/
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@edwardbaker1331 A belief that is false exists; but that it exists does not make it true.
And this isn't about "animosity," simpleton: it is about REASON. Let's see if your are not so profoundly shallow that you can grasp reason:
Not five minutes ago "God" talked to me. And "He" said that he has never, in the entire endless history of infinity, talked to any other human.
Well, yeah -- I can't prove that, but you can't disprove it.
That's why reason requires EVIDENCE.
And why Christ instructed that one practice one's "religion" IN PRIVATE -- because the public showing off of one's "piety" is egotism based on being judgmental of others as inferior because you run for necessary doubt and can't stand others believing differently than you. I love the way the FOUNDERS put you bullying cranks in your place:
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From the North Carolina constitution adopted on December 18, 1776:
"XXXI. That no clergyman, or preacher of the gospel, of any denomination, shall be capable of being a member of either the Senate, House of Commons, or Council of State, while he continues in the exercise of the pastoral function.
. . . .
"XXXIV. That there shall be no establishment of any one religious church or denomination in this State, in preference to any other; neither shall any person, on any pretence whatsoever, be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgment, nor be obliged to pay, for the purchase of any glebe, or the building of any house of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes right, or has voluntarily and personally engaged to perform; but all persons shall be at liberty to exercise their own mode of worship:--_Provided_, That nothing herein contained shall be construed to exempt preachers of treasonous or seditious discourses, from legal trial and punishment."
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From the constitution of Georgia adopted on February 5, 1777:
"Art. LVI. All persons whatever shall have the free exercise of their religion; provided it be not repugnant to the peace and safety of the State; and shall not, unless by consent, support any teacher or teachers except those of their own profession."
"Art. LXII. No clergyman of any denomination shall be allowed a seat in the legislature."
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From New York constitution adopted on April 20. 1777:
XXXIX. And whereas the ministers of the gospel are, by their profession, dedicated to the service of God and the care of souls, and ought not to be diverted from the great duties of their function; therefore, no minister of the gospel, or priest of any denomination whatsoever, shall, at any time hereafter, under any pretence or description whatever, be eligible to, or capable of holding, any civil or military office or place within this State.
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@Francisco50771 From the North Carolina constitution adopted on December 18, 1776:
. . . .
"XXXIV. That there shall be no establishment of any one religious church or denomination in this State, in preference to any other; neither shall any person, on any pretence whatsoever, be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgment, nor be obliged to pay, for the purchase of any glebe, or the building of any house of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes right, or has voluntarily and personally engaged to perform; but all persons shall be at liberty to exercise their own mode of worship:--_Provided_, That nothing herein contained shall be construed to exempt preachers of treasonous or seditious discourses, from legal trial and punishment."
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And that is because the Founders realized that it can't be proven that there IS a "God".
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@tonimartine370 It can't be proven there's a "God" -- therefore it can't be proven that illiterate sheep herders were talked to by anyone let alone a "God".
Reason requires more EVIDENCE than mere word from finite and imperfect humans who are prone to error and lying.
This is how the Founders put your subjectivist rejection of fact and reason in its place:
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From the North Carolina constitution adopted on December 18, 1776:
"XXXI. That no clergyman, or preacher of the gospel, of any denomination, shall be capable of being a member of either the Senate, House of Commons, or Council of State, while he continues in the exercise of the pastoral function.
. . . .
"XXXIV. That there shall be no establishment of any one religious church or denomination in this State, in preference to any other; neither shall any person, on any pretence whatsoever, be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgment, nor be obliged to pay, for the purchase of any glebe, or the building of any house of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes right, or has voluntarily and personally engaged to perform; but all persons shall be at liberty to exercise their own mode of worship:--_Provided_, That nothing herein contained shall be construed to exempt preachers of treasonous or seditious discourses, from legal trial and punishment."
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From the constitution of Georgia adopted on February 5, 1777:
"Art. LVI. All persons whatever shall have the free exercise of their religion; provided it be not repugnant to the peace and safety of the State; and shall not, unless by consent, support any teacher or teachers except those of their own profession."
"Art. LXII. No clergyman of any denomination shall be allowed a seat in the legislature."
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From New York constitution adopted on April 20. 1777:
XXXIX. And whereas the ministers of the gospel are, by their profession, dedicated to the service of God and the care of souls, and ought not to be diverted from the great duties of their function; therefore, no minister of the gospel, or priest of any denomination whatsoever, shall, at any time hereafter, under any pretence or description whatever, be eligible to, or capable of holding, any civil or military office or place within this State.
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Those, and equivalent provisions in the other states constitutions, eventuated in the First Amendment separation of "religion" and gov't.
The US Constitution, by its own express terms, is the SUPREME Law of the Land. There is NO "higher law".
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@SherryHill-k5y You've actually STUDIED "all past societies"? Including their level of education, illiteracy, and critical thinking? Because ignorance is the basic tradition, your assertion is meaningless.
It is also meaningless and also ignorant is this fact:
Most societies believed in MULTIPLE "Gods" -- not a single "supreme being"; see as examples Greek mythology and Indian Hinduism. It is only with the pre-Christian era that all those "Gods" were consolidated into a single "God"(though Catholicism posits a "father, son, AND "holy ghost") -- and the "God" of the "Old Testament" is a mass-murder-ordering TYRANT who blames and punishes the IMPERFECT humans "He" created, instead of taking responsibility for making them IMPERFECT and therefore bound to screw up.
You're also wrong to believe that "believing" a thing makes the thing believed true -- or makes it actually exist. Can you imagine flying without having an airplane? -- yes. Can you IN REALITY fly without an airplane? NO! Can you "BELIEVE" the FALSE FANTASY that you can fly without an airplane? Certainly -- but that belief, being a false fantasy, would be FALSE.
That's why THINKING is an ACTIVE process, whereas "belief" is a resting point. CRITICAL THINKING evaluates the BELIEF to determine whether it is true OR FALSE. Or, neutrally, not proven.
What the claims about a "supreme being" are about is FEAR OF DEATH. NO ONE knows what occurs when one dies. But the alternative to the fear is "hope" -- and generated fantasies about it. So "religion" provides made-up "answers" to questions that have no answer.
Believing a thing DOES NOT automagically also make it true.
How can an imperfect, finite human comprehend infinitude and perfection? S/he cannot; one can "believe" that infinity and perfection exist, but the finite, imperfect human cannot KNOW they do.
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@marciamariethompson6463 None of that proves there's a "God" that, according to finite imperfect human speculation, is beyond the conception of finite imperfect humans.
You're a subjectivist who rejects facts and reason -- including the fact that illiterates in a "Bible" that claimed the "whole world" was flooded -- before it was proven the world is round, and before there was any knowledge of any "world" outside the Middle East desert -- and who claimed they heard voices, and that the "voices" were "God," provided a shred of proof for any of that.
This is how the Founders put you subjectivists in your place:
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From the North Carolina constitution adopted on December 18, 1776:
"XXXI. That no clergyman, or preacher of the gospel, of any denomination, shall be capable of being a member of either the Senate, House of Commons, or Council of State, while he continues in the exercise of the pastoral function.
. . . .
"XXXIV. That there shall be no establishment of any one religious church or denomination in this State, in preference to any other; neither shall any person, on any pretence whatsoever, be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgment, nor be obliged to pay, for the purchase of any glebe, or the building of any house of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes right, or has voluntarily and personally engaged to perform; but all persons shall be at liberty to exercise their own mode of worship:--_Provided_, That nothing herein contained shall be construed to exempt preachers of treasonous or seditious discourses, from legal trial and punishment."
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From the constitution of Georgia adopted on February 5, 1777:
"Art. LVI. All persons whatever shall have the free exercise of their religion; provided it be not repugnant to the peace and safety of the State; and shall not, unless by consent, support any teacher or teachers except those of their own profession."
"Art. LXII. No clergyman of any denomination shall be allowed a seat in the legislature."
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From New York constitution adopted on April 20. 1777:
XXXIX. And whereas the ministers of the gospel are, by their profession, dedicated to the service of God and the care of souls, and ought not to be diverted from the great duties of their function; therefore, no minister of the gospel, or priest of any denomination whatsoever, shall, at any time hereafter, under any pretence or description whatever, be eligible to, or capable of holding, any civil or military office or place within this State.
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Those state constitution provisions, and their equivalents in other state constitutions, eventuated in the First Amendment separation of "religion" and gov't.
Gov't is by definition RULE OF LAW. Your rejection of the rule of law is ANTI-AMERICAN.
Last but not least: Christ instructed his adherents to practice their "religion IN PRIVATE -- not to bullyingly push your lawless crap into others faces in arrogant pretense that you're holier-than-though.
Christianity is compassion and decency. Learn at least to respect others by learning to be decent in both word and action. Else you'll continue to get put back in your place by the rule of law.
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