Comments by "J Nagarya" (@jnagarya519) on "Occupy Democrats"
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These crackpots have been waving The Federalist as their "Bible" for decades -- but their project is actually that of the ANTI-Federalists -- they REJECT the US Constitution. First, its provenance, for perspective:
Keeping in mind that CONGRESS makes the laws, The Federalist was compiled from newspaper articles, written extra-Congressionally by three of the more than 54 delegates to the Constitutional Convention. On the other end of the spectrum were three ANTI-Federalists who refused to sign the Constitution. One of the latter three was Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts-Bay, who invented gerrymandering, which caused a major scandal.
The newspaper articles were, of course, pro-ratification of the Constitution, and were admittedly and advertising campaign intended to SELL the Constitution.
But let's dip into The Federalist and see what we find:
"The Federalist N. 84 [Hamilton]
. . . .
"I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and in the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed constitution, but would even be dangerous." The Federalist (Middletown, CT: Wesleyan University Press, Paperback, 1961), Edited, with Introduction and Notes, by Jacob E. Cooke., 579.
The First Amendment of the Bill of Rights includes separation of "religion" and gov't, and the right of the people to PEACEABLY assemble. What rights in the Bill of rights does this insurrectionist crackpot intend to eliminate?
But there's more from the Founders -- this is how they put these subjectivists, these insurrectionists, these would-be tyrants, in their place:
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From the North Carolina constitution adopted on December 18, 1776:
"XXXI. That no clergyman, or preacher of the gospel, of any denomination, shall be capable of being a member of either the Senate, House of Commons, or Council of State, while he continues in the exercise of the pastoral function.
. . . .
"XXXIV. That there shall be no establishment of any one religious church or denomination in this State, in preference to any other; neither shall any person, on any pretence whatsoever, be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgment, nor be obliged to pay, for the purchase of any glebe, or the building of any house of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes right, or has voluntarily and personally engaged to perform; but all persons shall be at liberty to exercise their own mode of worship:--_Provided_, That nothing herein contained shall be construed to exempt preachers of treasonous or seditious discourses, from legal trial and punishment."
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From the constitution of Georgia adopted on February 5, 1777:
"Art. LVI. All persons whatever shall have the free exercise of their religion; provided it be not repugnant to the peace and safety of the State; and shall not, unless by consent, support any teacher or teachers except those of their own profession."
"Art. LXII. No clergyman of any denomination shall be allowed a seat in the legislature."
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From New York constitution adopted on April 20. 1777:
XXXIX. And whereas the ministers of the gospel are, by their profession, dedicated to the service of God and the care of souls, and ought not to be diverted from the great duties of their function; therefore, no minister of the gospel, or priest of any denomination whatsoever, shall, at any time hereafter, under any pretence or description whatever, be eligible to, or capable of holding, any civil or military office or place within this State.
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Those provisions, and their equivalents in the other state constitutions, eventuated in the First Amendment separation of "religion" and gov't.
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Actually not:
Refuting the NRA's Two Second Amendment Lies
The gun industry's propaganda arm NRA tells two lies about the intent of the Second Amendment.
1. That the Second Amendment protects an "individual" "right" to possess guns.
Comparison with the several prior Supreme Court decisions, and the legislative history -- the Congress's Debates of the writing of the Amendment, which are LEGAL AUTHORITY -- shows that Scalia's Heller decision is an outlier. In Heller he falsely held that the Amendment protects an individual right -- for which he was excoriated by legal experts across the political spectrum for ignoring this adjudicatory standard:
When a conflict over the interpretation of a law cannot be resolved within the text of the law, one reverts to the legislative history of the law -- in this instance Congress's Debates of the writing of the Amendment.
The facts from those Debates:
The purpose of the Amendment was to establish a National Defense, relying on the well-regulated Militia, as substantiated by the Militia Act of May 8, 1792:
"An act more effectually to provide for the NATIONAL DEFENCE by establishing an uniform MILITIA throughout the United States."
The Militia is not an individual; it is a public institution and an arm OF gov't, regulated and governed under both Federal and state constitutions and laws. The Amendment is irrelevant to the issue of private, individual gun ownership:
James Madison is called "the father of the Constitution," and the gun industry, via its propaganda front NRA, claims that Madison wrote the Second Amendment. If both of those are facts, then the word "people" is consistent in meaning from the beginning of the Constitution to the end of the first 10 Amendments. The first three words of the Constitution are "We the people," not, "We the individual".
This is the first draft of that which the gun industry/NRA calls the "Madison" Amendment, which became the Second Amendment -- but which it never quotes. [In brackets I clarify it for the logic-impaired]:
"The right of the people [PLURAL] to keep and bear arms [this phrase is the well-regulated Militia, and was drawn from four state constitution Militia Clauses] shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person [INDIVIDUAL] religiously scrupulous of [AGAINST] bearing arms [in well-regulated Militia] shall be compelled [INVOLUNTARY] to render military service [in well-regulated Militia] in person."
Source: Creating the Bill of Rights: The Documentary Record from the First Federal Congress (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, Paperback, 1991), Edited by Helen E Veit, et al., at 12. (This volume is readily available from Amazon.)
Note the word "compelled": Militia service was a DUTY -- not a "right". And note the words "people" and "person": if a person -- individual -- claimed "religious" exemption from that DUTY, his case was scrutinized individually.
The only "individual" "right" debated regarding the amendment was the last clause --
": but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person." --
That clause is clarified by this provision in the New York constitution adopted on April 20, 1777:
"XL. And whereas it is of the utmost importance to the safety of every State that it should always be in a condition of defence; and it is the duty of every man who enjoys the protection of society to be prepared and willing to defend it; this convention therefore, in the name and by the authority of the good people of this State, doth ordain, determine, and declare that the militia of this State, at all times here-after, as well in peace as in war, shall be armed and disciplined, and in readiness for service. That all such of the inhabitants of this State being of the people called Quakers as, from scruples of conscience, may be averse to the bearing of arms, be therefrom excused by the legislature; and do pay to the State such sums of money, in lieu of their personal service, as the same may, in the judgment of the legislature, be worth.[FN 13] And that a proper magazine of warlike stores, proportionate to the number of inhabitants, be, forever hereafter, at the expense of this State, and by acts of the legislature, established, maintained, and continued in every county in this State.
"FN 13. This exemption-fee was fixed at £10 per annum by the act of April 3, 1778, organizing the militia of the State."
And that clause --
": but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person." --
was obviously voted down before the proposed amendment was submitted to the states for consideration. Thus the Amendment obviously does not protect "individual" ANYTHING.
Only by ignoring not only the existing state constitutions and laws which eventuated in the US Constitution, and the Congress's own legislative history -- the Debates of the writing of the Amendment are LEGAL AUTHORITY -- could Scalia falsely hold that the Amendment protects an "individual" "right".
2. That the purpose of the Second Amendment was to establish a "right" to "take up arms" against the gov't -- which is refuted by the Constitution itself:
"Art. I., S. 8., C. 15. The Congress shall have Power To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute [ENFORCE] the Laws of the Union, SUPPRESS INSURRECTIONS, and repel Invasions".
And on May 2, 1792, the Congress enacted this Militia Act:
"An act to provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions."
And the Founders themselves twice established the precedent on the point:
Under the Articles of Confederation, "Shays's" insurrection was suppressed by the state's Militia, reinforced by a DRAFT, and the insurrectionists charged with, tried for, and convicted of, TREASON, and sentenced to death.
Under the Constitution -- more than two years AFTER the Amendment was ratified -- the "Whiskey" insurrection was suppressed by Federalized Militia, lead by George Washington, and the insurrectionists charged with, tried for, and convicted of, TREASON, and sentenced to death.
The Congress, as a co-equal branch of gov't, has the authority and power to overturn Supreme Court decisions.
Overturn outlier Heller and its progeny.
PLEASE CIRCULATE INTACT.
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No, it was not. Were that the fact then every state would have had "Slave Patrols," which did not happen.
SOME states used their Militia, or a subset of it, as "Slave Patrols". But that was NOT the purpose of the Second Amendment --
___
Refuting the NRA's Two Second Amendment Lies
The gun industry's propaganda arm NRA tells two lies about the intent of the Second Amendment.
1. That the Second Amendment protects an "individual" "right" to possess guns.
Comparison with the several prior Supreme Court decisions, and the legislative history -- the Congress's Debates of the writing of the Amendment, which are LEGAL AUTHORITY -- shows that Scalia's Heller decision is an outlier. In Heller he falsely held that the Amendment protects an individual right -- for which he was excoriated by legal experts across the political spectrum for ignoring this adjudicatory standard:
When a conflict over the interpretation of a law cannot be resolved within the text of the law, one reverts to the legislative history of the law -- in this instance Congress's Debates of the writing of the Amendment.
The facts from those Debates:
The purpose of the Amendment was to establish a National Defense, relying on the well-regulated Militia, as substantiated by the Militia Act of May 8, 1792:
"An act more effectually to provide for the NATIONAL DEFENCE by establishing an uniform MILITIA throughout the United States."
The Militia is not an individual; it is a public institution and an arm OF gov't, regulated and governed under both Federal and state constitutions and laws. The Amendment is irrelevant to the issue of private, individual gun ownership:
James Madison is called "the father of the Constitution," and the gun industry, via its propaganda front NRA, claims that Madison wrote the Second Amendment. If both of those are facts, then the word "people" is consistent in meaning from the beginning of the Constitution to the end of the first 10 Amendments. The first three words of the Constitution are "We the people," not, "We the individual".
This is the first draft of that which the gun industry/NRA calls the "Madison" Amendment, which became the Second Amendment -- but which it never quotes. [In brackets I clarify it for the logic-impaired]:
"The right of the people [PLURAL] to keep and bear arms [this phrase is the well-regulated Militia, and was drawn from four state constitution Militia Clauses] shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person [INDIVIDUAL] religiously scrupulous of [AGAINST] bearing arms [in well-regulated Militia] shall be compelled [INVOLUNTARY] to render military service [in well-regulated Militia] in person."
Source: Creating the Bill of Rights: The Documentary Record from the First Federal Congress (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, Paperback, 1991), Edited by Helen E Veit, et al., at 12. (This volume is readily available from Amazon.)
Note the word "compelled": Militia service was a DUTY -- not a "right". And note the words "people" and "person": if a person -- individual -- claimed "religious" exemption from that DUTY, his case was scrutinized individually.
The only "individual" "right" debated regarding the amendment was the last clause --
": but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person." --
That clause is clarified by this provision in the New York constitution adopted on April 20, 1777:
"XL. And whereas it is of the utmost importance to the safety of every State that it should always be in a condition of defence; and it is the duty of every man who enjoys the protection of society to be prepared and willing to defend it; this convention therefore, in the name and by the authority of the good people of this State, doth ordain, determine, and declare that the militia of this State, at all times here-after, as well in peace as in war, shall be armed and disciplined, and in readiness for service. That all such of the inhabitants of this State being of the people called Quakers as, from scruples of conscience, may be averse to the bearing of arms, be therefrom excused by the legislature; and do pay to the State such sums of money, in lieu of their personal service, as the same may, in the judgment of the legislature, be worth.[FN 13] And that a proper magazine of warlike stores, proportionate to the number of inhabitants, be, forever hereafter, at the expense of this State, and by acts of the legislature, established, maintained, and continued in every county in this State.
"FN 13. This exemption-fee was fixed at £10 per annum by the act of April 3, 1778, organizing the militia of the State."
And that clause --
": but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person." --
was obviously voted down before the proposed amendment was submitted to the states for consideration. Thus the Amendment obviously does not protect "individual" ANYTHING.
Only by ignoring not only the existing state constitutions and laws which eventuated in the US Constitution, and the Congress's own legislative history -- the Debates of the writing of the Amendment are LEGAL AUTHORITY -- could Scalia falsely hold that the Amendment protects an "individual" "right".
2. That the purpose of the Second Amendment was to establish a "right" to "take up arms" against the gov't -- which is refuted by the Constitution itself:
"Art. I., S. 8., C. 15. The Congress shall have Power To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute [ENFORCE] the Laws of the Union, SUPPRESS INSURRECTIONS, and repel Invasions".
And on May 2, 1792, the Congress enacted this Militia Act:
"An act to provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions."
And the Founders themselves twice established the precedent on the point:
Under the Articles of Confederation, "Shays's" insurrection was suppressed by the state's Militia, reinforced by a DRAFT, and the insurrectionists charged with, tried for, and convicted of, TREASON, and sentenced to death.
Under the Constitution -- more than two years AFTER the Amendment was ratified -- the "Whiskey" insurrection was suppressed by Federalized Militia, lead by George Washington, and the insurrectionists charged with, tried for, and convicted of, TREASON, and sentenced to death.
The Congress, as a co-equal branch of gov't, has the authority and power to overturn Supreme Court decisions.
Overturn outlier Heller and its progeny.
PLEASE CIRCULATE INTACT.
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