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  417.  @clintlbrown2597  I'm afraid that would be an exercise in futility, Mr. Brown. I'm well aware that flat Earthers have many items of what they consider evidence for their worldview. The way to get to the truth, though, is not by counting claims, but by evaluating them against real-world observations. If you want to discuss evidence, I suggest starting with just one claim and comparing it to what we see. My one claim is that a sunset over the ocean shows that the Earth cannot be flat. If the Earth were flat, and the Sun above it all the time, as it must be if you admit that it's never night over the entire Earth at the same time, then the Sun would always be visible in the sky from anywhere on Earth. That is, if you're not in a valley or behind some trees or buildings- that's why I stipulate a sunset over the ocean. For instance, if the Sun is about 3000 miles above the flat Earth (a commonly given figure), then it can never get closer to the horizon than about 20 degrees above it, no matter where you are on Earth. You can draw a model and see for yourself. No amount of atmospheric distortion can explain this, and perspective, often cited by flat Earthers, has nothing to do with not being able to see a bright object that is in our line of sight, as the Sun would be at all times. No flat Earther has been able to explain this, and I've watched many videos looking for explanations. Can you explain it to me? Please, no links, tell me in your own words. Thanks and cheers from icy Vienna, Scott
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  469.  @bengrizzlyadams6187  Why do you say the Lunar Module is "cardboard and curtain rods"? Because it doesn't look like the rockets on the Jetsons? Show me some evidence that it was made of cardboard and curtain rods. But NASA is a red herring in any case. We've known for more than two thousand years that the Earth is a globe. The authors of the Bible didn't get the memo, though, and they foisted the flat Earth on us, an undead zombie that science can't completely banish, since it's not based on reason, but on a Bronze Age religion. You may have missed a critical difference between sailboats and Moon rockets. Moon rockets are a lot bigger, a lot more complicated, and thus a lot more expensive, even more expensive than America's Cup boats with Kevlar sails and foils. NASA's budget was slashed in 1972 and was never high enough afterwards to afford the big boosters necessary to get past LEO. We now know, not everything by a long shot, but quite a bit about the planets. But forget NASA- in any case, we've known since the Renaissance as the latest that the planets are bodies more or less similar to the Earth in important aspects: they are all (fairly) spherical, and they behave the way Newton said they would: they are massive objects in orbit around the Sun, and the Earth is one of them. If they are just lights, why do they behave this way? How are these lights powered, how are they projected? And "sonoluminescene"? That's one of the silliest arguments, even from flat Earthers. It's entirely based on the superficial similarity of sonoluminescence photos with the out-of-focus and severely atmospherically disturbed images of stars and planets made by flat Earthers, not knowing that their precious Nikon zoom cameras are incapable of autofocussing on such dim objects. This is really a case of worshiping one's own ignorance. And calling it by a sciency sounding word they don't understand. Flat Earthers have nothing but superstition, paranoia, and an overweening sense of their own entitlement to present their ignorance as though it were the truth. Sad.
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  789.  @ReallyReall  Are you sure you didn't delete your post accidentally? I seriously doubt YouTube would delete it, there was nothing objectionable about it. But YouTube does move in mysterious ways sometimes. Anyway, if you're still interested in sunsets.... The problem with saying that the flat Earth Sun just "goes away" at sunset is perspective. Everything that moves away from us seems to get smaller, right? If the Sun were really as close and small as flat Earthers say it is, then it would be roughly twice as far away from us when it's near the horizon than at midday, and the apparent size of the disk would thus be half the size near the horizon. But we don't see this: the apparent size of the Sun stays the same all day, no matter what the season or where you are. You can test this for yourself with a piece of dark glass. And if the Sun were always above the flat Earth, then it would also never set. It would appear to get closer to the horizon as it went away, but never touch it. This is simple geometry and also intuitively true: how can something disappear, when you can always draw a straight line to it? Another problem with the flat Earth Sun is that it should not only appear smaller when further away, but also appear to move more slowly across the sky, just as cars that are far away appear to move slower than nearby ones. But again, this is not the case: the Sun moves 15 degrees across the sky at all times. You can easily prove this to yourself by building an equatorial sundial (instructions online, takes about five minutes). The Earth really cannot be flat. But I don't really care what people believe, as long as they behave nicely. cheers from icy Vienna, Scott
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  807.  @অরুণাভদাস  I've been following flat Earthers for years, and I'm all too well acquainted with Eric Dubay, who banned me some time ago for politely disagreeing with him. So no thanks, I won't go through his 200 "proofs" again. My belief in the globe has nothing to do with inner peace, although the vast Universe revealed by science does give me a sense of awe. I'm afraid that I'm quite immune to the charms of the tiny flat Earth under a goldfish bowl, whatever they might be, because I started at a young age to look carefully at the world. My father built an equatorial sundial with my brother and me when we were little, and I got hooked on astronomy. At 18 I built my first telescope, grinding the mirror myself. Since then, I've spent a great deal of time observing the skies. Astronomy is far simpler than anything to do with biology. The math involved is hard, but that's only for the theoretical physics and cosmology parts of it. Everything to do with the shape of the Earth is very simple, high school science at best. In biology, the way living things metabolize, reproduce, evolve, and behave, are so complex and dependent on circumstance, that they can very seldom be reduced to any sort of mathematical formula except very roughly in statistical ways. The motions of the Solar System, and the basic shapes of the bodies in it, can be almost entirely described with math. For someone like me, belief in a flat Earth is puzzling, because it's so obviously wrong in so many ways. It simply doesn't fit what we see at all. The shape and size of the Earth have been known pretty well for more than two thousand years, with no sign or even imaginable possibility of change. But believe what you want. I don't really care what people believe, as long as they behave nicely. Cheers from cool Vienna, Scott
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  1177.  @danaugustin4504  Oh, I've experimented plenty for myself. You are right about the illusion of sinking caused by a receding object that's actually at a constant height above a plane. But that apparent sinking has a limit, and that limit is the horizon. It has nothing to do with your eyes, it's caused by perspective, which is purely mathematical. An object at a constant height above a plane appears at an angle above the plane that's inversely related to its distance from the observer. So if the Sun moves twice as far away, then it appears at half the previous angle above the plane. But you notice that there's a limit: they Sun would only appear to be at no angle above the ground, that is just touching the horizon,when it's infinitely far away. And no matter how small the angle, it's always positive, so the flat Earth Sun would never appear to go behind the horizon. And that's not the only problem here. Again because of perspective, the nearby flat Earth Sun would appear larger at midday than when near the horizon, by roughly a factor of two, given the usual flat Earther figures of being 3000 miles up and 32 miles in diameter. But it doesn't- the Sun remains a constant size the whole day. There are many other simple observations you can make that fit a globe but don't fit a flat Earth. Try measuring the altitude of Polaris, for instance. Or build a sundial. Watch the shadows on the Equinoxes. But believe what you want. I don't really care what people believe, as long as they behave nicely. Cheers from sunny Vienna, Scott
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  1627.  @bryann25  In addition to all the other observations mentioned here, there are very simple ones. One sunset is actually enough to show that the Earth cannot be flat, given our knowledge that it's not ever night over the entire Earth at once. The flat Earth sun would always be in a direct line of sight from anywhere on Earth at all times, unless you happen to be behind a mountain or a tree or something. Flat Earthers have no explanation for this that doesn't invoke magic in the form of light bending in ways we know it doesn't. Another simple disproof: the apparent size and motion of the Sun. Our Sun can easily be observed to maintain the same size, within very small limits, at all times and from everywhere on Earth. You can check it out for yourself with a piece of appropriate dark glass. Also, the motion of the Sun across the sky is 15 degrees an hour, also within very small limits, at all times and from everywhere on Earth. You can easily check this out for yourself too, by building an equatorial sundial. Neither of these simple observations would happen on a flat Earth with a nearby sun. The flat Earth sun, which is commonly supposed to be 32 miles in diameter and 3000 miles above the Earth, would appear to move only about half as fast and look only about half the size when it's near the horizon, compared to when it's overhead at midday. None of this happens. Again, flat Earthers have no explanation for this except magic. Look into it for yourself. Cheers from sunny Vienna, Scott
    1
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  1683.  @predrag1  That's a rather complicated question to answer. To start with, the only place you could "sit" to see the Earth rotate once in 24 hours is at one of the Lagrange points, the closest two of which are about five times farther away from the Earth than the Moon is. Anywhere else and you have to be powered somehow, because you would not be in a stable orbit. If you want to see the Earth's surface whizzing by at the greatest angular velocity possible, then you want to be right next to the surface at the Equator, on a straight line between the Earth and the Sun, as the first two Lagrange points are. This has the twin problems that you will get hit by every mountain that goes by, and will have to fight constant 1000 mph winds. But the surface will whizz by very quickly. A little further out, say at about the height of the ISS but somehow powered up to prevent falling, you would see the Earth's surface going by at a more leisurely pace- still 1000 mph, but because it's further away, it crosses your field of view more slowly. And moving further away, say at the height of the geosynchronous satellites (but still powered up, because you can't orbit there at one revolution a year around the Earth) you will see nearly the whole one side of the Earth- but it's only rotating half the speed of the hour hand of a clock, so although that's still 1000 mph at the Equator, you are so far away that you probably wouldn't be able to detect the motion with your eye. I hope that helps explain things. Cheers from sunny Vienna, Scott
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  2234.  @johnsmith-zv8ws  No magic necessary, just gravity. Think for a moment what causes water to slosh. It's not motion. Does your coffee slosh when on an airplane at 500 mph, as long as it's flying straight, not speeding up or slowing down, and not dealing with turbulence? Are you hurled to the back of the plane when you get out of your seat to go to the john? No. Moving in a straight line at a constant speed, no matter how fast, is undetectable to us in terms of the forces we feel. You can pour tea, juggle, jump up and down, and none of those tell you whether you are moving or not. What you can feel, and what causes water to slosh, is acceleration, in the physicists' sense of the word: speeding up, slowing down, or turning. Now, the Earth in all its various motions may be moving quickly, but it's not accelerating much, because all these motions go around curves that are very big. You mention that we're going 1000 mph. But how fast are we turning? One revolution every 24 hours, or 1/4 degree per minute. A quarter of a degree turn a minute is almost a straight line. The acceleration imparted by the Earth's rotating on its axis is just enough to make objects (or water, or you and me) about 0.3% lighter at the Equator than at the Poles. Not really enough to feel or slosh water much. All the other motions- the Earth's orbit around the Sun, the Sun's path through the Galaxy, might be faster, but they're way bigger curves and their accelerations are not detectable on Earth even by extraordinary means. Gravity is not perfectly understood. You might want to call that magic. But the numbers add up. With a sensitive electronic scale, you can measure the difference in weight of an object at two locations, one of which is a couple hundred miles further from the Equator than the other. It's been done, the numbers match the theory, and no flat Earther has an explanation for it. If you disagree with any of this, please let me know exactly where I went wrong. Cheers from rainy Vienna, Scott
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  2357.  @brandywood3481  Thanks for your lengthy reply, but I'm afraid it doesn't fit what I see at all. The Earth is not immeasurable- we know all the distances between all the points on it to an accuracy of a few feet. Ask any pilot or navigator. And the distances only fit a globe- you can't make a flat Earth map that doesn't have great distortions. The Moon does not "glow", it reflects the light of the Sun, just as a bright sunlit surface on the Earth does. The dark part of the Moon, the part not lit up at any given time by the Sun, is not visible during the day, because it's dark, but our bit of sky in front of it is lit up and thus looks blue like the rest of the sky. When the astronauts were on the Moon, the surface they walked on was about as bright as sunlit pavement on Earth. Our atmosphere rotates with the Earth, so if we discount winds, clouds also move along with everything else. We can't feel this rotation, because we don't feel motion as such, only changes in speed or direction. The trouble with the Sun and Moon turning counterclockwise around the dome is that they don't turn counterclockwise in the Southern Hemisphere, but clockwise. Same for the stars and everything else. That can only be explained by the Earth being a globe. The Bible is a mixture of good advice (the Golden Rule), bad advice (it's okay to keep slaves if they're not Hebrews), some real history (the destruction of the Temple) some fake (the Captivity in Egypt), some good science (washing your hands) and some bad science (pretty much all of Genesis). But as I said: I don't care what you believe, as long as you behave nicely. cheers from sunny Vienna, Scott
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