Comments by "cchris874" (@cchris874) on "FILE-9 11-SHANKSVILLE CRASH SITE" video.

Actually, at the aviation forums I frequented, your point of view is in the minority. To me, what felt like a punch to the stomach was the sudden number of self-proclaimed experts and also lay people who sprang out of nowhere , to say no plane Pentagon. To those who have studied plane crashes, it was just so laughable and an assault on our intelligence. Which leads me to my main arguments that flight 93 did indeed crash at Shanksville. 1) And this applies to all of 9/11. The no-planers would have us believe that the worldwide community of engineers and air safety experts are all a bunch of blithering idiots, minus that small number who subscribe to A&E for truth, and 911pilotsFT. This is the real punch in the stomach, and it's sheer nonsense. 2) Flight 93 as a fake crash has no internal or external coherence. Examples: why was it necessary to target a field in the middle of nowhere? (no answer available from no-planers) If the government wished to convince us of a crash at Shanksville, why did they allegedly sprinkle debris over New Baltimore 8 miles distant? That is the most absurd reasoning I've ever heard. Finally, you must not have studied 93 vert carefully, as there was tons of scattered debris, all pax ID'd through body parts, surviving paper, photo of engine core (how did you miss that one?) black boxes also photographed.
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@andrewd6236 Not following you. What was the government's alleged purpose in making flight 93 part of 9/11? What was their main goal for this flight?
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@leewilliams.380 But that's wrong. We have at least 2 other examples: Northwest flight 710 - entire fuselage literally disappeared under the ground. Investigators had never seen anything like it. Another very well known recent example is Ethiopian 737max crash. What many may not have noticed is that all the debris you see was dug up from the crater. The very first photos show nothing but a hole in the ground. The reason such scenarios are rare is because most planes do not usually fall steeply down in one piece. In 911, though, this was precisely the intention of the F93 hijackers: to crash it straight down and fast. edit: "The doomed flight crashed six minutes after take-off from Addis Ababa in clear conditions. 'Most of the wreckage was found buried in the ground,' ” Just like flight 93.
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@andrewd6236 Well, some of these points do force one to pause and think, yes. Like WTC 7, a portion of which they say apparently fell a little faster than gravity. I'm curious though, where have we ever "seen this before," that is, on a scale anything like this. And I am not saying "conspiracies" are always ridiculous. I put forth Pan Am 103 as perhaps the most persuasive case I have seen of probable cover-up.
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@andrewd6236 The only problem is this is pure speculation. I would say common sense argues against it. Governments know that every additional alleged fake plane crash or demolition is another huge opportunity to be discovered. Why add an essentially needless extra crash? I think it's very clear that three collapsed skyscrapers, a Pentagon attack, and almost 3,000 deaths is if anything, already extreme overkill in justifying the alleged motives of the government. It just defies common sense. But the more important question is, what evidence is driving this? What fact invalidates that flight 93 was a real hijacking, as it seems all the evidence supports it? We are talking here a dozen witnesses to the last seconds, fdr readout published, ATC tapes tracking it there, the phone calls, and the county coroner who IDd the victims, and on down the list. How can one, as a truth seeks, simply dispense with all this evidence without an iota of proof? cheers
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@troycote4503 "maybe don't understand what I said. There's no plane parts on the ground, and no bodies period even from early video," If you want me to change gears and go into super detail mode, let's do it. First, I already cited two other plane crashes where there were no bodies. Another example is AA Eagle ATR crash in I think Roselawn, IL. Show me pics of any bodies. Show me pics of any bodies in the crash of USAir 427. Show me pictures of the bodies for Ethiopian flight 302. Are they also fake crashes too? I am not moving on to other issues unless you are honest, and acknowledge these facts. Thank you.
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@troycote4503 Flight 302: "The force of the impact meant no complete bodies were recovered; " For NW 710 and PSA 1771, I can guarantee you no bodies were found. The largest body fragments from PSA were feet.
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@leewilliams.380 "go back to science class" Problem with this clichéd truther claim is that it's one of dumbest of their fantasies about how reality works. In this case, their model allegedly goes like this: the government knows full well that in 9/11 they are violating basic science at every turn; science that is so BASIC that any Youtube bloke can figure it out in two seconds flat; and therefore, in their arsenal of magic tricks, is the ability to fool the worldwide community of engineers and physicists about basic science; or to absolutely terrify them into total silence for 20 years. Now, no serious person believes something so absurd. The truthers need to come up with more credible logic or rational paradigm if they want to extricate themselves from the oblivion of Youtube chat and other irrelevant venues.
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@PoetryZound Funny how these alleged truth finders never seem to be able to find these readily available quotes.
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@PoetryZound THX, maybe you could help me with this nice little mystery. Let's call it "Why was a seemingly useless crash in the middle of f-ing nowhere so vital to the War on Terror?" Challenging, isn't it. But let's give it a try shall we? Well let's see here, start with nearly 3,000 deaths and several collapsed / destroyed buildings. Do you think the government just wanted a nice little frosting on the cake, you know, an extra 44 deaths for good measure? Or we could take the flight 93 heroes, maybe it was those heroes yes, you know, the ones the government said never even made it into the cockpit. That must be it!! On second thought maybe it was the grass? Targeting blades of grass, yes on further reflection that must be it !! Without dead grass the War on Terror would have been impossible. How silly of me! OK, now it's your turn.
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@leewilliams.380 And Lee, I wouldn't want to exclude you from all the fun and games. So here's another question you might help me with. Now let's see, the government wanted to try really really hard to convince us a real plane filled with real people crashed into a real field. SO, let's leave aside they decided to choose the least convincing form of plane crash - as you say, very careful to not leave any nice big obvious pieces. Let's just leave that part aside. My question to you is, why did the government apparently sprinkle confetti over New Baltimore, some 8 miles downwind from the alleged crash site? Was it to convince us the plane crashed all in one piece? Or perhaps it was just to make us believe this crash was so odd that we would implicate the government in a fake crash?
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@leewilliams.380 "It’s scientifically impossible for a plane that size to turn to dust." Agree. But no one said that except you.
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@leewilliams.380 You know, I've always been curious. Why was it so important for bldg 7 to collapse at free fall speed? What was the government's alleged rush? After 7 hours, a few extra seconds collapse time would not have altered anything. Do you suppose the government selected a collapse time of 6.5 seconds just to implicate themselves? Inquiring minds want to know.
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@PoetryZound There are no photos of the War of 1812, so it obviously didn't happen.
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@benderrodriguez9406 Not nearly enough.
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@benderrodriguez9406 The fact is, for a thread that perhaps a small trickle of viewers might just possibly still be reading, I have to split my meager paycheck by three, such is the demand for shills. Actually the government wanted six for this thread. That's where I put my foot down.
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@RealKombat Cloud 9
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Life-is-a-mist Yes. It's clearer than ever why the truth mvt is now largely relegated to the most irrelevant of venues like Youtube comment threads. It has fallen into oblivion precisely by putting forth the most bizarre, even lunatic, of ideas. Sane people look at this stuff - like the pointless crash of flight 93 made into a conspiratorial soap opera. And vomit. Or laugh. Take your pick. People who don't have the judgement to separate fact from fantasy are not the type of people who would recognize their own psychological disabilities.
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@timower5850 The evidence: pictures, phone calls from pax, radar tapes showing the track of the plane, hijackers made reservations using their real names, seismic reading, at least a dozen witnesses to plane impacting ground, both black boxes, FDR readout on web, crater matches 757 40 degrees nose down, trooper found engine in pond, 1100 recover workers from 74 organizations report nothing suspicious, 40 passengers ID'd from body fragments, That's at least a dozen strands of evidence. By contrast, you have nothing, zilch. No evidence that any of this was faked. ZERO. You want a good analogy? Look up Ethiopian 737Max crash (flight 302.) DO NOT tell me about the wreckage photos. There is a PRE-EXCAVATION photo that proves almost all the debris was found under the crater, just like F93. The wreckage photos are POST-EXCAVATION. The pictures are eerily similar. If you can't find the picture, go to Mick West's sight and type in both flight numbers, where you will see them side by side in a thread devoted to this at his website, which Google will not allow me to post.
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@timower5850 You need a crash course on plane crashes. I study them as a hobby, and long before 911. It's obvious you don't. "Always show major pieces." Take a look at PSA flight 1771. There's a Mayday series episode on it, though it may have been taken down from Youtube. The first recovery workers had no idea they were looking at an airliner. They thought it was a small plane carrying newspapers, Just confetti spread out over a hill. No bodies either.Tell me if you see any major pieces of debris: say, a tail, an engine, and report back. Have fun.
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@timower5850 "Nothing at the Pentagon crash site (per journalist Jamie McIntyre) " The book >>Firefight>> is 100s of pages of evidence refuting that. But you guys only get your info from one side - the side that fits.
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@CooJoe05 It's you who is the sheeple. You follow junk truth sites like cows to slaughter. Yes, the media lie. Yes, the government lies (is that supposed to be some profound insight?) But 911 truth is the biggest liar of all.
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@timower5850 "The middle of nowhere is precisely where you would have another 'plane' go down. " Absurd speculation. If you were the government, would you rather have "flight 93" target a building and kill hundreds more? Or have it target grass in the middle of nowhere? If people read that in a serious publication like, say, Foreign Affairs, subscribers would be canceling en masse. C'mon, you can do better than that.
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@timower5850 Live and first hand accounts are the ones that are often the least reliable. Another example of common sense eluding the truther brain. But in this case, you only confirm to the informed reader that you can't do basic research, and that 9/11 truth is a joke. Here are some other things McIntyre said that very morning: "“I can see parts of the airplane that crashed into the building — very small pieces of the plane — on the heliport outside the building. The biggest piece I saw was about three-feet long. It was silver and it had been painted green and red, but I could not see any identifying markings on the plane. I also saw a large piece of shattered glass that appeared to be a cockpit windshield or other window from the plane.” So, "I can see parts of the airplane" gets morphed into "nothing." Do you begin to see why 9/11 truth has withered away into oblivion? With each new post, you guys demonstrate your massive incompetence. After 21 years, sensible people have experienced truther burnout. Cherry picking, laziness, shockingly poor research skills (like yours), and an inability to grasp common sense, and on down the list. I've told many people that 9/11 Truth is a great place to teach people about the most basic pitfalls of bad research. Rarely does one encounter clustered together so many of the elementary failures of critical thinking, of bad research skills and evidence gathering in one place.
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@timower5850 "as a rebuttal to "You know, it might have appeared that way, but from my close up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon..." It was a rebuttal to your word "nothing' Hey, that's YOUR word. You posted it here. You said McIntyre said there was "nothing." Now you try to slide out of your claim by pretending my reply was in response to "it might have appeared." Do you think you fool anyone? "Everything you say is backed up by the single grainy film...." What a total lie. My claims are based mostly on what the majority of witnesses stated they saw, what the C-130 transport reported seeing, by the obvious bits of AA livery on wreckage pieces, the DNA ID's of most passengers, the many firemen quoted in the book "Firefight." My advice is to get some remedial course on the basics of logical argument and research skills, or stop posting. But if you won't, I will. I refuse to discuss these things with someone who can't construct a cohesive statement, quote properly and in context, and make up a lie about the only evidence for flight 77 being a grainy photo. Enough is enough. Have a fine evening.
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If any more confirmation were needed that 9/11 truth is dead from the neck up, this thread would be it.
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@ShellyMNNC26 It shows you haven't studied the subject enough, especially the history of high speed impacts.
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@troycote4503 You don't know the facts. How can you say there were no plane parts when they showed pictures? A 7 or so ft section of UA 757, complete with window panes, was part of the Moussaoui trial. You must have been on vacation during the proceedings. No bodies you say? The same was true of PSA flight 1771. Show me a single body from the pics and videos. It was just confetti on a hillside. The same was true of Northwest flight 710: "The residue of flight 710 was something even the most veteran investigators had never come across before. There were no bodies." -from the book "The Electra story" This shows that you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are. People like me who have followed aviation safety for decades before 911 saw instantly the gross ignorance of people claiming to be crash experts. At the air safety forums I frequent, we instantly recognize the pitfalls of such people. They are all in the minority for a reason. They give us all a big laugh.
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@troycote4503 "One simple question for you just to make sure what catagory you fall into. Do you believe Biden is working for the people of our country, or the Globalist Elites pushing AGENDA 2030? What Biden calls build back better?" I am open to any possibility if the evidence is there. For example, do you believe the 2020 election wast stolen, despite no valid proof ever having been provided? If you are going to cite Dinesh D'Souza's documentary, which has been decisively refuted, that tells me something about your standards of evidence.
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@troycote4503 Kindly cite or link picture of bodys for flight 302. I can't find any.
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@troycote4503 Thank you, and same respect to you. I would love to continue if you would like. But I have asked for acknowledgement from you that there have been other high speed, steep angle crashes that have resulted in "no bodies." I have named them by flight number. Let's leave aside flight 302 if you like. But PSA 1771 and Northwest 710 are absolutely documented cases. If you'd like to continue, can we agree on this fact?
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@alphabeta2515 Please let us know when you plan on finishing that sentence.
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@ashleystrickland5761 "Evaporate" Yes, but I would shy away from using that term in these parts because so many truthers, at least to judge from the ones here, have little sense of how to use the English language, taking things ultra literally. In fact there were many things found, but in very small pieces. Terms like "evaporate" and "vaporize" are figures of speech, meaning they make their points through rhetorical exaggeration.
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It landed in Cleveland.
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The only problem with your theory is that flight 93 was unnecessary to the alleged conspirators. If it was unnecessary, then it was unnecessary to fake it. Flight 93 is an irrelevant footnote, providing only a feel-good, mid-air personal drama. No government in its right mind is going to fake a useless crash like this. Big picture thinking is what's missing from much of the truth mvt.
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Are you talking about UA 93 or Ethiopian 302?
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Looks like this conversation got stopped dead in its tracks. All you need are simple facts.
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@kevtruth So where was the 5 city blocks long trail of wreckage for flight Ethiopian 302? Ethiopian 911 conspiracy?
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@kevtruth Because flight 302 also mostly disappeared under its crater. Here's the pre-recovery wreckage photo https://www.1001crash.com/index-page-description-accident-Ethiopian-lg-2-crash-410-ethiopian-airlines-boeing-737-ethiopia-bishoftu.html The stuff seen was dug out afterwards: “Most of the wreckage was found buried in the ground,” -reuters Just like flight 93. Do you want to revise your 5 city blocks thesis?
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@kevtruth Pentagon: That's exactly what happened though. I spoke personally to several airline captains, and most said they had no problem believing the plane hit the Pentagon. It took some luck, sure; but not the alleged impossible maneuver. You have too much documented evidence. I recommend the book Firefight, which gives the names of dozens of first responders who were in the Pentagon afterwards. There were wreckage photos. An expert crash investigator on one of the aviation forums I used to hang out at positively IDd one of the engine fan pictures. There's an engineering reconstruction that shows exactly how it happened.
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@kevtruth Northwest flight 710 is another absolute proof that airplanes can be swallowed whole. In this case, the wings separated in flight, but the entire fuselage literally disappeared under the earth. Investigators had never seen anything like it. The lesson to be learned is that reality is often smarter than we humans give credit for. The truth mvt as a whole, I fear, lacks this sense of humility. They like to think they've been bestowed with the unique gift of insight that others lack; no wonder all the experts, and indeed the rest of us are dispensed with as sheep, or blithering idiots. This is pure narcissism.
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