Youtube comments of cchris874 (@cchris874).

  1. When the dad refused to help his son, and didn't come to his release, he convicted himself.
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  2. “Respect African societies and their values.” But don't respect other people and their values. A classic case of evident hypocrisy.
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  3.  @3kbschannel288  "Where did he say don’t respect others’ value?" Do you respect the Nazi's values of executing Jews? It's the same basic principle, though obviously less extreme. He's asking us to respect disrespect of gays.
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  4.  @electr_icity4613  When your values are intolerant and morally bankrupt, ANYONE has the right to say so. When Donald Trump's values are pieces of sh-t, I call him on that a too. Respect has to do with treating people humanely. In THIS instance, people are being mistreated.
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  5. It's actually about 50 miscarriages of justice. In the US, each rape would be a separate crime.
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  6.  @3kbschannel288  We all have a choice. In this particular instance, we can choose to make the world a better place by disrespecting cruel and outlandish punishment of innocent people. Or we can choose the course of man's inhumanity to man.
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  7. You mean Gangster's Agreement. It was the FAA's John Shaffer who put on a most pathetic defense later, saying "Service bulletins always worked well for me." A disgrace to the FAA.
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  8. Well there was at least a little bit of justice. The petition to prosecute the parents failed. You have to be mentally unbalanced to sign a petition like that.
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  9. Some people will tell you anything.
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  10. Why would you expect a bunch of perverts to show remorse?
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  11. This is meant in a positive way, and in no way meant to deny the sorrow and suffering that will remain with the families on some level for life. But most victims don't have the benefit, if that's the right word, to have the whole world mourn with them. Isn't that what we all would wish to have? I hope in some small way that might possibly have helped to take some of the edge off of the pain they have endured.
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  12.  @pekh1859  " 'you don't get to fucking decide who's values are "intolerant" or "morally bankrupt', " Oh yes I do, and so do you. We should all know the basics. Is murder wrong? Yes. And you and I both know it. In Uganda the law says if you are gay or practice homosexuality you are subject to life in prison. That is wrong, and if you can't see that, then I can say with complete confidence that you are holding a morally evil point of view. Now if you want to get into a discussion of what morality consists, I am happy to have that discussion with you. When we spell out what makes the world a moral place in principle, life in prison for gays won't cut it. If you think it can be done, let's hear your argument.
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  13.  @loretta_3843  But be thankful: not as much nowadays. Today, the risk among the 1st tier airlines is a tiny trickle compared to the 1970s.
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  14.  @electr_icity4613  Oh sorry. At Youtube very little is obvious.
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  15. You only find it refreshing because he agrees with you.
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  16.  @TNT-km2eg  Could that have something to do with the fact his father never showed any support for his son over 25 years? If you genuinely love your son, it doesn't matter how much he hates you. You are there for him, unconditionally. Now, I am not claiming a proof here. If you have evidence his father ever showed any support, kindly present it.
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  17.  Jeremo Brown  You cannot make a citizen's arrest by pointing a gun at a person whom you cannot positively ID. No different than a mugger doing it to you. Once you use a gun, you have forfeited your right to self-defense.
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  18. We know from the study of heuristics, or decision-making especially under stress, errors can happen at an unconscious level, where they cannot always be detected as they happen. I suspect this may have played some role here. There was the interesting case of the LH A-300 that took off from Heathrow w/o clearance, both crew having been absolutely sure they received it. When they both expected to hear the TO clearance, they were given an amended SID instead. Interesting similarity.
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  19.  @BigBalls.Supervisor-D.O.G.E  I have to apologize for that. I feel guilty watching fragile egos fall apart in seconds; Hit and Run YouTruthers, fleeing in terror at the first sign of logic.
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  20.  @stopcensorship7705  Misses the point as always. But then, what does one expect from people with a degree in Bedroom Management.
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  21. But that argument can be used for any form of transportation.
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  22. It's a common misconception that this seems impossible, but other crashes prove it. PSA flight 1771 debris was reported 8 miles distant. USAir flight 427 crashed in one piece but some five minutes later debris fell onto a golf course some 2 miles away. It's natural to ask, how could this happen, especially if it's not a windy day? Firstly, this debris was only very light: typically paper, business cards, insulation. It did not involve anything that couldn't be carried by air currents. But how does it get up there in the first place? I think the answer is provided by thermals: "a thermal is a movement of rising warm air." They have been observed to cause substantial updrafts. When you look at the impact plume of F93, it appears to show this. The debris plume, hot with exploding fuel, draws the debris upwards, where the air speed is greater at higher altitudes, and carry them for miles.
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  23.  @Mad_Beefs  Unless you are an on-duty cop in uniform, if you point a gun at someone, you are the initiator of assault with a deadly weapon. No different than if a mugger did it to you. Once you display the gun, you have forfeited your right to life.
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  24. They are upsetting to you because your worldview is at a less advance stage of morality than what humanity has been able to achieve so far in the 21st century. Uganda is way behind the times. Example: they have a law against the practicing of witchcraft. Anyone with a brain in their head knows that witchcraft doesn't exist. That's part of the chasm between the more enlightened rational perspectives of the West, and the more dysfunctional morality of many non-western societies. Tolerance, evidence-based views, extending kindness to all innocent people, these are fundamentally superior values than hatred of your fellow humans. Minding your own business also seems to be a problem not just for the West, but for many in Africa as well. Homosexuals are not directly harming you. Maturity means getting on with your life and not sticking your nose into what people do in the privacy of their bedroom. That basic lesson in maturity 101 is lost on millions of Africans. They need to grow up.
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  25.  @zmanzoran  Kindly provide the correct information. Thanks
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  26.  @kalechips5972  I am grateful not everyone is a moron here. Could you imagine the sh-t we'd be in if Youtube ran society?
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  27. A new internet record has been reached. A full two hours of 9/11 video without any truther spam. That's called progress.
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  28. Yes, but calling for their execution is a bit extreme, don't you think? Even a PhD in Bedroom Management isn't needed to understand that.
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  29.  @ajm5007  Yeah, makes perfect sense. She's never had a single complaint in her 26 year career, never a single accusation of racism, and now out of the blue is dying to kill a black man. Some people just don't get it.
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  30. +Super Exho "Life in prison" Oh that's really ridiculous. Yes, she did something very evil. But technically, how can it be manslaughter? If she killed him, then he didn't kill himself? Was his free will rendered null and void because he was depressed? Do we want to live in a society where mere words can get you a life sentence? Come on back down to reality. Way, way over the top. But I sympathize with your emotions. Don't let them carry you away. cheers
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  31. That is very true. However, I fear it's not the norm. Most people don't change very much once they become adults.
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  32.  Apollox44 Pollo  You are incapable of rational argument. Stick to what you're good at: hatred. Your posts are examples of why there is a dark side to humanity.
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  33. I'm trying to find what the terrorist threat was. Did I miss something?
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  34. He reminds me of the Chinese government. A disgrace to the world.
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  35.  @sallyphillips9175  You have many friends. We don't hear from most of them because most do not crave the constant attention and drama the Youtruther community does. They live for that peculiar feeling a superiority to everyone else, of thumbing their nose at experts. It's all about them, not the victims, or anyone who dares to call out their BS. Even invading a memorial page on an anniversary means nothing to them. cheers
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  36. Actually, at the aviation forums I frequented, your point of view is in the minority. To me, what felt like a punch to the stomach was the sudden number of self-proclaimed experts and also lay people who sprang out of nowhere , to say no plane Pentagon. To those who have studied plane crashes, it was just so laughable and an assault on our intelligence. Which leads me to my main arguments that flight 93 did indeed crash at Shanksville. 1) And this applies to all of 9/11. The no-planers would have us believe that the worldwide community of engineers and air safety experts are all a bunch of blithering idiots, minus that small number who subscribe to A&E for truth, and 911pilotsFT. This is the real punch in the stomach, and it's sheer nonsense. 2) Flight 93 as a fake crash has no internal or external coherence. Examples: why was it necessary to target a field in the middle of nowhere? (no answer available from no-planers) If the government wished to convince us of a crash at Shanksville, why did they allegedly sprinkle debris over New Baltimore 8 miles distant? That is the most absurd reasoning I've ever heard. Finally, you must not have studied 93 vert carefully, as there was tons of scattered debris, all pax ID'd through body parts, surviving paper, photo of engine core (how did you miss that one?) black boxes also photographed.
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  37. @@OnlyHomiesAllowed And persecuting consenting adults for what they do in their bedroom has literally nothing to do with justice. It's simply none of the government's business. (Unless you can show that some forms of sex are causing harm, such as incest.) But gay sex doesn't harm people per se. It only does so if the rest of the society goes bonkers and can't conduct themselves in a mature way. Perhaps that would indeed be Uganda.
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  38. They did find lots of debris.
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  39. Same with me, though not married. Any thoughts why you see virtually no men in the protester pics?
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  40.  @dah9112  Didn't you hear? It's also damage proof.
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  41. It was the same with Ethiopian flight 302 before excavation began.
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  42. +Deven Appreciate your input, but here's my problem. Manslaughter has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I'd say it's NOT beyond reasonable doubt to declare that every single depressed or suicidal person is mentally unstable to the point they are deemed incompetent to make their own decisions. Would you also give Roy a pass on the basis of mental instability if Carter coaxed him into shooting another person? If not, I see a dangerous double standard. Tricky case though.
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  43. There was a quite a bit of ticket switching at the last minute. One man got on the plane, then got off when he found out his wife had flown to Paris to meet him. They had no way of knowing they were in a life and death lottery. When the barrier was about to close, and some 10 passengers w tickets would be turned away, two passengers flipped a coin to see who would get on. Also, they found lots of passports in the wreckage of people still alive and well. Apparently, many of the outbound passengers to Paris were flying on others' passports. This is one reason the ID process went on interminably. (See the book, "The Last Nine Minutes" for the whole story."
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  44.  @michaels.starnes194  Amputating context is the stock-in-trade of the Youtube simpleton. The context you miss is reckless endangerment created by the chasers. Travis aimed his shotgun at Arbery some 10 seconds before Arbery even reached the truck. Under Georgia stand your ground law, if Arbery were armed, he had the right to shoot Travis dead. So much for your innocent people theory.
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  45.  Apollox44 Pollo  "Objectively you have no basis for claiming that pedophilia does children harm" Per your suggestion I read the Rind study and it doesn't claim that children are not harmed. It merely claims that in the aggregate the assumption of widespread or near universal harm has been exaggerated. Nor does it have anything like a definitive analysis of long term post traumatic stress. Plenty of people have suffered great harm do to sexual abuse as kids. You cannot make the same claim about consensual homosexual sex.
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  46.  @stopcensorship7705  Thank you for admitting gay may be biological. Progress!
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  47. Ridiculous. A 3-year-old can slip away in seconds. Have you ever been a parent??? The primary cause was the zoo's negligence. Especially when you are operating a child-centered business, you have an obligation to make it safe. The zoo was negligent. Businesses have far more of an obligation to create a safe place. Because you are the paying customer.
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  48. Regarding the channel 25 encounter, I would have been more impressed had Rollins conceded that she did cross a basic line in her reaction. By never acknowledging mistakes, it tends to make one look worse, not better. Making a mistake and owning up to it may even be more beneficial to one's reputation than not having made a mistake in the first place.
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  49. Probably not much, as most men are against rape, even acknowledging the reality of rape culture.
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  50. It's disheartening, as most men are against rape. Rape culture plays a role. But also, a few men I've spoken to have shared with me their anxiety and unease in the bedroom, at least in the US. Even though the vast majority of women are honest, they know that women in essence control the show. One wrong move, one misinterpreted gesture, or unwanted touch, and you could end up in court, or before a college tribunal. I know a guy that keeps a tape recorder under his bed. This is irrational to say the least. But I wonder if this anxiety is common, and makes men reluctant to join the protestors? In the US men are taught they are all potential rapists. But this is just a wild stab in the dark.
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  51. +Super Exho "how was it his fault?" Because he had free will. Unless you want to say anyone with suicidal depression has no free will. If that's the case, then let's be consistent and deny people with suicidal depression the right to vote, or sign wills, or be held accountable in a court of law. Otherwise there's no real principle here.
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  52. "that the accident had nothing to do with the DC-10." It wasn't the primary cause, but it would be inaccurate to say that the design played no role. The accident report cited lack of redundancy with the leading edge slats and stall warning systems. It criticized the design of the pylons as contributing to the vulnerability of damage; and issues of quality control, resulting in many planes leaving the assembly line with defective pylons. A more general criticism was the failure to consider "multiple malfunctions resulting from a single failure." cheers
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  53. Probably hard to get the McMichaels entirely off the hook 1) Their alleged citizen's arrest was by all acounts I've read, illegal in Georgie because they didn't witness a crime happening. 2) By displaying a deadly weapon, you are asking for trouble. This is the reason citizen's arrest is frowned on in this situation. 3) On this basis, I come up manslaughter.
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  54. In your eyes perhaps. But you are not an official spokesman for humanity, nor do you have anything remotely resembling a proof it's wrong. Until you have one, such pronouncements are no more interesting than anyone else's.
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  55.  @JUNXO  If I may continue the theme of FF bashing for a bit more, there are a number of factors that could affect the fearful flyer, despite the evidence of its high safety. As an industry commentator once remarked, flying "is contradictory to the senses upon which our emotions are based." That may be the key emotional centerpiece driving this fear. It's instinctive; and probably much more powerful than any compilation of accident statistics. Or, especially, if you don't know what they are and how to compare them.
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  56. Yes, it's like tornadoes. They can inexplicably leave one house unscathed while destroying all the rest in the same path.
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  57. What's disheartening though is just how many of these early jet age crashes were entirely preventable with the knowledge we already had. PSA 182 was entirely preventable. For example, a rash of collisions in the late 1960s was made possible by the risky mixing of small and big planes at regional airports. We had the knowledge at the time. but Congress and greed didn't care one wit.
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  58. I don't think society is served by calling a 3 year age difference rape.
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  59. First off, paper items surviving high speed plane crashes is nothing new. Many examples can be cited. As to the fire, a lot depends on how long an item is exposed. If the hijacker had the passport, say, in his pocket and was seated in the cockpit, that that item has a head start, since the fuel tanks are behind it. And if the exposure is a fraction of a second, it could well escape complete destruction.
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  60.  @elfamosoabraham5880  And the purpose of signing the petition, I suppose, is that even very conscientious parents could never ever lose track of their child, that only bad parents make mistakes. And every time someone behaves imperfectly, we should make a million assumptions about their motives, and rush to sign a petition. This is the dark side of humanity.
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  61.  Stannis Baratheon  Where did you see the punches? The video I saw, you hear the first shot almost immediately after Arbery reaches the front of the truck. Where do you see a punch before you hear the first shot?
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  62.  @Connect_with_Yourself  He may not necessarily be homophobic by Ugandan standards, but if you are going to advise people to "leaving others to have their own beliefs" without shaming them, that's exactly what Mr. Museveni is NOT doing. He's not leaving gays alone, and has in the past supported both life in prison and the death penalty for gays. That's unGodly. We are supposed to love thine enemies, not slaughter them.
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  63. Because other people can see it? But I grant you that in this day and age of sexual predator hysteria, the idea of calling him a predator shows how far removed society is from reality.
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  64.  @_to_-cn8wd  What's missing here is the fact that the baggage handler had been told it was not his responsibility to check the peep hole. It was a job to be carried out by Turkish Airlines crew members only. He may not even have been made aware of the fact this instruction had anything to do with safety. He was told to never force the door shut, and he strictly adhered to that on March 3rd.
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  65. Because it was written by primitive humans.
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  66. Respect for hatred is one of mankind's many foibles.
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  67. Fred Meyer, whom you refer to, told the authorities he saw a streak of light, then almost immediately a fireball which fell to the water in some 10 seconds. This supports the streak being a late stage event. He later decided to repudiate his own testimony because it didn't support his conviction he saw ordnance. While he states he has seen ordnance before, he does not say he ever saw a commercial airliner explode before. So how does he know that might not also resemble ordnance? "mach 1.5+ radar returns" might well be the most powerful case for a missile. The NTSB did take up this claim, questioning "the quality of the radar data representing this debris by citing information such as ½ nautical mile “scatter” between multiple FAA radar facilities. " This prompted a rebuttal by Tom Stalcup which to me demonstrates the futility of non-trained nonspecialists being able to figure all this out. Without a neutral platform to judge both sides, I cannot accept this argument as beyond reasonable doubt. Can you?
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  68. +G k Here the thing for me. murder or manslaughter implies that it was involuntary. That the person had no choice. That's why this for me goes over the edge of where the law should go. Roy DID have the free will to say, I'm not doing this. So I agree with the ACLU on this one. Unless we say that depressed people have no control over their actions, it sets a dangerous precedent. I fully agree though, that she did something very evil.
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  69. I think the whole concept of date rape is founded on that delusion: that "I didn't have e a good time last night" or "In retrospect he used me" has been redefined as rape. And these so-called victims actually believe it. Otherwise we wouldn't have had this bizarre phrase enter the English language. There's no way you'd carry around a mattress on campus unless you'd been brainwashed to really think you were raped. Just my hypothesis. :)
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  70. Do you have any other mass murderer heroes?
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  71. I don't understand this casual acceptance that AI is on the verge of consciousness when we still haven't the first clue what consciousness even is.
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  72.  Edward Stevenette  Not always true. Sometimes kids are just rotten at the core despite parents' good intentions.
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  73. Well he may be worse. He's a moral lunatic, as Sam Harris put it. He's a traitor. He tried to lie his way into staying in power. His business school was a fraud, he has no morals, no humanity. If you cannot see a psychopath staring you in the face, then maybe you are beyond help.
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  74. I don't think so necessarily. In these parts, yes. But most people I know have forgotten about the crash, but still remember TWA very well, at least for the over 50 crowd.
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  75.  @elfamosoabraham5880  The thing you seem to have terribly wrong is saying "she isn't watching her child." It doesn't follow that watching your son carefully means you are perfect, any more than being a great driver proves you cannot ever be responsible for an accident. In case you didn't know, careful people also make mistakes. Am I wrong?
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  76.  @fremontpathfinder8463  And in the hands of a bettor jury, the assumption of fancying yourself a perfect mind reader might have led to a more appropriate conclusion.
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  77. You are absolutely right, as William Tobin's sworn testimony reveals. That's the irony of the missile brigade. In fact, far from covering up, they were literally dying to find the smoking gun so they could take control of the investigation. Kallstrom himself had already planned to make an announcement of this to the media when Tobin put his foot down. That was one of the most dramatic reads I have come across in aviation crash land.
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  78.  @POPJack1717  Well actually it took more like 16 seconds. The 10 second figure is the time it took for "the first exterior panels" to reach the ground. NIST has fostered this confusion by giving the 10-second number in both contexts at different times. That said, would you even perceive the building was collapsing at first? But still doubtful anyone would get out, and then you'd have to run fast or potentially get killed by all the debris falling outside near the entrance.
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  79. Pan Am started calling itself the world's most experienced airline right around the time they had an unprecedented string of fatal events: a total of 5 in a period of just 9 months. Much as I have a soft spot for Pan Am, and much as it was a service innovator for a time, it showed itself to be an airline that treated passengers worse than baggage. In the Pago Pago crash, they refused to compensate a severely burned passenger on the grounds they got her to her destination. The airline was a disgrace to humanity.
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  80.  @stevebeckerman4214  Well Boeing is guilty no matter how you do the math. They knew 3 months before Ethiopia that there was an estimated 50% of a max crash every year, yet they kept the plane flying. Both parties were negligent.
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  81. Who's kidding about what? The well established fact that paper items surviving high speed crashes is common place?
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  82. On the Basset question, I already gave my views too. He was asked to perform a test to see if the seat fabric matched 3M adhesive. The NTSB correctly reported that the test came back "consistent with." (does that wording sound familiar?) It was the FBI's Kallstrom - and I remember him saying this - who stated as a fact that the residue was glue. He misrepresented the test results. And casually (not officially) the NTSB gave the impression as well. That was not their shining day.
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  83. I think they aren't literally saying that, but it's still a bit over the top. They say, men remain silent. As if most women are out protesting. Seriously.
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  84.  @prometheusrex1  Yes, about as trustworthy as the Chinese government and their fraudulent country.
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  85.  @famousmwofficial8046  If you want the respect of the West, celebrating the opinion of Uganda's foremost murderer isn't going to do the job.
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  86. KLM had some valid points to make; and I would add that, thought the controllers didn't make any blatant mistakes, the Spanish government did all they could do to hinder the investigation. So yes, governments and corporations.
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  87. It illustrates we are more belief than evidence seeking beings.
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  88. I found a 22h 10min flight, from a 1959 timetable. Is there anything that long today?
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  89.  @blackscorpion-h8i  I think the passenger revolt is pretty well proven by the phone calls. What counter facts or evidence can you cite which would refute this?
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  90. Or committing armed assault against someone minding their own business.
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  91.  @iROChakri  To you believe killing, say, a zygote, is exactly as bad as killing an adult human? Do you think having a semblance of a brain matters at all?
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  92. If you want to discuss other counter-missile evidence, we have, among others: -problem with witness accounts and the timing of the break-up -Fred Meyer's self-refuting witness account -The FBI's desire to declare the accident sabotage -William Tobins testimony showing the bias was towards sabotage, not a cover-up
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  93. Can't you guys at least show some restraint in the constant pop-up spam known as nine-elevn truth? Can't you just give it a break once in a while.
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  94. I think also the reason they were told to take the third is that the taxiways were not marked. So they would not have known which was C3 except by counting.
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  95. mitch rawles "This conclusion is by those who are pro Queer"  Sure sure sure. You can postal you want. It doesn't change reality. it proves nothing except the power of your belief and the lack of critical thinking. Critical thinking  would allow you to stand back for a moment and ask yourself, "How do I know this? How do I know the Bible is God's word? Did anyone ever provide a proof? Did I ever even ask for one? Or did I just accept it because this is what I was taught, and because I happened to have grow nup in a nation big on christianity?" From here comes the path to enlightenment. And greater tolerance. Deprogramming takes some effort. But the rewards are well worth it. cheers
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  96. +Super Exho "she KILLED a person!" Only if he had no free will. The most you could say is that she aided and abetted him and influenced him. That doesn't = killing. HE killed himself. He still had free will. Analogy: a man is threatening to jump from a 10 story building and the crowd gathers around and starts yelling JUMP JUMP. If he jumps, would you call for everyone in the crowd to be executed? Really? Do we want to live in that kind of society where you can be executed for a single word?
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  97. +Aki79 I don't think she's lying. I think she genuinely thinks she was raped, based on a faulty definition of rape invented by the date-rape/rape culture feminists. Not quite the same thing.
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  98. +Gorgia Mallich -- What homework? The "23 cents on the dollar" stat is an aggregate comparison of how much men and women make on average. The notion that this stat means women on average get paid 23% less for doing the same work is the uncritical myth that practically everyone assumes. There is absolutely no evidence of any type from anyone for this view. It's simply sloppy thinking and gross misinterpretation, and shows again how poorly educated most people are with numbers and statistics. DIsraeli's famous remark: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" is absolutely applicable here.
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  99. +faiz basha A jumbo jet is generally used to describe any wide body jet, the first of which was the 747. So yes, the 777 is absolutely a jumbo jet. cheers
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  100. +Fenrir the Destructive -- "explained away" as in denying it? Or as in showing it's been exaggerated?
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  101. Brilliant at the art of incivility, I agree completely.
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  102. In your dreams
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  103. twoofer bot.
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  104.  @elfamosoabraham5880  Well if there's dangerous creatures all over the place, why did the zoo have such defective enclosure? I would say that while I respect your position, the zoo, being a kid-oriented place, has an obligation to cover up the holes in its system. By contrast, a parent does not have an obligation to be perfect 100% all of the time, because that's the nature of kids. I hope you at least would agree that criminal charges are unwarranted here.  I would use an airplane analogy. If a child gets out of his seat while mom's back is turned, and then slips out through a hole in the plane, is that mommy negligence, or should the mom assume that a plane is safe from having holes in it?
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  105. !!!!! is not evidence.
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  106.  @geronimoheavyshadow5046  So you can't directly deal with a specific point without flying into a rant about all the problems of the world. What does Kadafi have to do with Uganda? I talk on many issues on many different threads about Africa, and I choose what interests me. This one is about homosexuality in Uganda. Try to focus your attention to the subject at hand. Uganda may well be ahead of the US on many issues, but not this one.
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  107.  @geronimoheavyshadow5046  I'm entitle to express whatever opinion I want, just as you do. I never said humanity started with homosexuality. I can pick and choose what interests me, just as you pick and choose what you want to post. If you didn't have such obvious axes to grind here, you would first state that you agree with me it's cruel and uncalled for to put a gay person in jail for life just for being gay - THEN you would add all the over stuff you're saying, which would be fine. But you can't even be a good sport and acknowledge obvious atrocity when you see it. Or God forbid you actually don't care about the suffering of your fellow man. Yes, I can say what is and is not human, I have no more or less right to express myself on that subject than an African president or yourself. Being an African president doesn't give one moral authority over you or me. Neither does Donald Trump, or the USA or France.
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  108.  Apollox44 Pollo  To give such weight to an entity whom we cannot prove exists is to put God on an even playing field with any other competing theory of morality. If you can't prove any of it, then it has no more objective standing than Rind's paper or the theory that morality is hardwired into us. "It's simply an abomination, a deviant form of sexuality that is not conducive to procreation. It's like fucking animals. A perversion." Now that you've acknowledged there's no way to objectively measure God's opinion, you statements carry no more weight than anyone else's. Perversion is in the eye of the beholder. Is choosing not to have children also deviant because it isn't conducive to procreation? If God did in fact create us and condemns homosexuality, what was his purpose in creating the environmental/ biological conditions that tempt so many people to choose it, but not other people? God is allegedly omnipotent. That means he had the power to not give us desires of this nature.
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  109.  Apollox44 Pollo  "your claim of moral objectivity is false" I never made that claim, did I? "If we believe it lies in God then an objective source for moral behavior has been agreed upon." Belief in something doesn't make it objective. Further, since many people do not believe in God, in actuality there is no such source except for the believers. So that's not saying very much. "Under an atheistic viewpoint, there is no basis for social cohesion" Not if the basics of morality are hardwired into us. There is now quite a bit of evidence that suggests there may well be some moral universals, similar to Chomsky's universal grammar. But since we as yet lack a robust proof, you are also not in a position to say you have absolute knowledge there isn't a hardwired basis to morality. The theory is up for grabs, and I challenge you to provide the science that says it's impossible.
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  110. Well the act is practiced by many more straight men than gay, at least in the US.
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  111. No it wasn't, and you have no proof that it was.
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  112. For a mass murderer.
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  113. Well I think they pretty much proved that. Her words and actions were lifted from a TV series of the same exact theme. That said, calls for life in prison are knee jerk reactions, or from people who lack discretion. Good thing our legal system is not run by the Youtube mob and all of their terrible judgement.
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  114. It's a fair question. But even if he was up to no good, Travis had no right to assault him with a gun. That is the primary ingredient that made the chase 100% illegal.
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  115.  @CATSWITHKYLA  You have not done adequate research. "that no plane was there or any resembles of one." The same is true for PSA flight 1771. Nothing resembling a plane. Ditto American flight 191, Air Canada 621. If the impact speed is great enough, and the angle is steep, you can have almost complete disintegration. Later on Wally Miller, the county coroner and others surveilled the area and found body parts, the cockpit section in the trees, Over 1,100 people representing 73 organizations were involved in the recovery effort. At least a dozen people saw the crash as it happened, we have phone calls from the passengers. I know it seems strange, but there is no reason to fake this crash. That is the final nail in the coffin. For what purpose? What was gained by faking flight 93? What today would be different? Since the answer is nothing, that should factor in to your reasoning. Think about it. cheers
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  116. But VERY few, even by Youtube standards. Shows there's no real grey area here.
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  117. I really don't care in the final analysis if people hate homosexuality. But what's far more shocking is the degree to which a video like this brings out the dark side of human nature, literally by the droves. It's to the point of an obsession. I guess many people simply need targets to hate, rather than to ignore. It's just another example of homo sapiens' innate aggression. The irony to me is how religion is often invoked. Yet if we are wired for aggression, as I think the evidence shows, we can only blame God for that. After all we are said to be made in his image.
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  118. Don't understand all the concern of having a victim on the jury. NOT being a victim is also potentially a bias, as many people have little clue as to how damaging abuse can be.
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  119. I always thought the term sounds odd, like "tomatoes of stew. Or a "car of blue."
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  120. After seeing the lack of respect that Cenk has displayed towards Sam Harris since interviewing him, I began to notice many other deficiencies which leads me to the conclusion that he's really not a first rate intellectual, and unreasonable much of the time. However I don't dislike him and you could do a whole lot worse than this show.
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  121.  @09K24  This is ignorant, as racism is a worldwide phenomenon, and predates the oppression of people of color by whites. It existed in ancient China for example. The origins of racism are debatable. I would argue it arises from within human nature. The redefinition can be easily tested. One of the most common definitions and common usages of racism can be found in any dictionary. For example: "the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another." Do you agree this is one valid definition of racism? If not, that proves you have redefined the term by excluding one of its most common usages.
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  122. +Riley "is that manslaughter can be proven here [beyond a reasonable doubt]." Part of the problem for me is "beyond reasonable doubt" has very little provable meaning. Here's how I define "reasonable doubt.": If you can come up with a plausible scenario, i.e., one which is not exceptionally fanciful or or preposterous, then it counts as reasonable doubt. Is it so bizarre or fanciful to speculate that Roy MAY have been in control of his decisions? I think it's nothing more than hubris to claim we have this level of omniscience. After all, being depressed doesn't take away your right to sign contracts, vote etc, the way they would for a child or a much more severely impaired person. End of ramble.
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  123. +Martin valles I agree with you, it's not so simple. That applies to many layers here. It's not so simple, for example, to prove beyond doubt that Roy was in fact forced to kill himself. If there's reasonable doubt, then the judge overstepped his bounds.
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  124. mitch rawles You have confused belief with knowledge. You do not have knowledge anyone will go to heaven. It is a matter of faith, not knowledge.
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  125. mitch rawles "If you had God the Holy Ghost living inside you then you would know these things-" No I wouldn't. Nor is there such a thing as "the Holy Ghost." "-I do know these things to be true." You do NOT know these things to be true. This is a classic form of error by fundamentalists. They seem not to understand the difference between belief and knowledge. You have belief of these things, not knowledge of them. "It is your problem you cannot know these things because God would reveal Himself to you as well if you would look up to Him and open your heart. " You cannot know them either because they are unknowable. You may believe in them, which is strictly a matter of faith, not knowledge. Again, you don't understand the nature of evidence, or the nature of knowledge, and confuse both of them with the concept of belief. These are basic and fundamental lapses in your education, and preclude anything resembling a serious discussion. None of what you write can  save you from an uneducated understanding of the world, or from an unfounded and unquestioning and uncritical acceptance of the authority of the church. If you can't differentiate knowledge from belief, faith from evidence, you cannot be saved by anyone, least of all by Jeremiah 31:3
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  126. It definitely should be legal. One should never feel the slightest apprehension that merely viewing the web can land you in jail. If you purchase it, that's one thing. But do you want to live in a society in which you can never be confident that because you have accidentally stumbled on an illegal site, you might end up with a felony? If you make child porn, then go to jail. If pay for it, maybe you should receive a fine. Anything more for than this is to declare "seeing" a criminal category. Can you name a single example - other than child porn - where "seeing" per se is a felony?
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  127. Sorry, he isn't. What you find personally disgusting is your opinion, not a fact.
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  128. You have no proof of that. If you did, kindly share it.
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  129.  @JegameJegame  Do you personally have any empathy for the struggles many gay people go through?
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  130. Because the women aid and abet it. They voted for Trump by the droves, and that made a big difference. They are all rushing to marry the alpha males because they also want the status AND the money. Of course men are far worse, and far more violent, but patriarch, as even many radical feminists have stated, is a system kept in place by both genders.
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  131.  @83wasagoodyear  Glad you agree with me.
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  132. Because you'll believe anything.
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  133.  @ResidentOfTheAbyss  You have no real science proving the collapse was impossible. Certainly nothing appearing in a science or engineering journal. So what is the evidence and where is it?
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  134. They recovered most of the wreckage. So what are you talking about.
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  135. Yeah, like, he had teenage sex. What else is happening in the world?
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  136. Probably not as familiar with the 747, which was not a regular visitor to the airport.
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  137.  @afinethings1256  No, no. They used the attack for that excuse but they did not create it.
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  138.  @guitarsz  Her tears are irrelevant. A conviction of manslaughter violates two basic things: the traditional distinction between ordinary negligence -- usually a civil matter, as in medical malpractice for example -- and gross recklessness. The second is the amputation of due process. It's inherently impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt she acted with extreme recklessness, or even ordinary negligence. That's what the research says: even the most experienced are not perfect in their ability to act under stress.
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  139. Please read "Anything But Straight" by Wayne Besen. The closest to a definitive proof refuting conversion therapy.
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  140.  @DyspotikOriginal  Not that low, especially if there was someone with pilot training on board, or if one of the two pilots could have been revived. I would say very low indeed, but not infinitesimal. Which reminds me of another question, what are the odds of any of the truth movement scenarios being true?
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  141.  @Neongrave1234  Yes, and enough already from the posters who complain about events that happened more than two weeks ago.
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  142. What about all the other Trump supporters who have had enough of his shenanigans. They keep growing in numbers. Even Rush Limbaugh has had it with the president. So now what, all these Trump supporters are part of the huge international conspiracy that rigged the election. To believe that, it tells something about one's intelligence level.
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  143. And traditionally we don't go for manslaughter under what might be termed "ordinary negligence." Unless you can prove it rises to gross recklessness, in the US at least, it's usually handled as a civil matter witness commercial airline crashes and medical malpractice. The idea we jail everyone for every single mistake they make under pressure is way off base IMHO. No matter how experienced, there's never a guarantee we can always avoid even big mistakes. It's this element of "proof beyond reasonable doubt" that's being amputated in this case. There's an inherent element of speculation when we assert she was careless or reckless. The research in heuristics (despite the fancy name, it just means decision making under stress) shows that even very experienced people can make such mistakes. The scary part is these mistakes often happen at an unconscious level, so we can't always detect them as they happen.
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  144. No he isn't. He just happens to agree with you.
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  145. I believe they were.
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  146. But in this case we have witnesses who saw the assault. So it's difficult to say she made it up. She even said initially she didn't want him to go to jail. The irony is that it was precisely the short sentence that ruined his life. Had it been, say, 2 years, no one would have heard of Brock Turner.
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  147.  @Dr.FirebladeSC59  Why would you carry a passport on a domestic flight? Especially back then when all you needed was a driver's license.
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  148.  @elfamosoabraham5880  Would you have still signed the petition if she hadn't been on the phone?
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  149.  Mikkebak The Gamer  More likely this was a temporary escape from the trauma of being locked in that trailer with two abusive parents. He seemed kind of happy. Maybe he's just used to it. When I got lost in a department store, I was crying.
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  150.  @ProfessionalMoron43  It's no use. We are dealing with a lower order reasoning person who cannot grasp the basics of reality.
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  151. What misinformation is she spreading?
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  152.  Apollox44 Pollo  We have I see quite a robust debate between Rind and Stephanie Dallam. Why is she wrong and he right?
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  153.  Apollox44 Pollo  "Yet that is the most rational moral theory if you don't believe in a God." How is that? I don't accept pure utilitarianism but I don't particularly believe in God. I don't see the contradiction or irony you're talking about.
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  154.  Apollox44 Pollo  "That is objectively false. Morality is a set of personal codes, ethics is a set of societal codes. Neither are hardwired into us." Well first off, there is no consensus whatever regarding the distinction you are making between ethics and morality. You'd have to spell that out as it's not common knowledge. "No, because the basis for a god-based morality is internally consistent, regardless of whether that being can be proven to exist. " That ignores that some other moral theories also have internal consistency. So that doesn't by itself set God apart. "Childless people are more prone to extremes: either totally hedonistic and reckless, or entirely devoted to work without any social balance." As you tend to like objective studies, where is the science behind this one?
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  155.  Apollox44 Pollo  You cannot prove someone wrong by pontificating about what influences them. As Dallam states, we could judge Rind by the same standards too: and I don't pretend to believe everything I read in a wiki article, but it states that  "In addition, Dallam and Salter stated that Rind and Bauserman were keynote speakers at a pedophile advocacy conference occurring in the Netherlands.[41]" It's misleading to state that there is consensus among mental health experts that pedophilic behavior is in general not harmful. If you don't have the science or background to  to refute Dallam yourself, then neither you nor I are entitled to declare this is the definitive study beyond all reproach.
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  156.  Apollox44 Pollo  "Then your approach isn't rational. It means the underpinning of your morality is not internally consistent, whereas that of a religious person or a pure utilitarian is." Doesn't follow. There is no proof on offer that without God, one cannot construct a rational theory of morality. It's another act of faith on your part masquerading as fact, or stated with inappropriate confidence, or lack of an accompanying proof.
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  157. Don't know if they know. In 2001, passports would have been uncommon on domestic flights, I am guessing.
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  158.  @daisydaisy7873  Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't talking about physical strength. My question boils down to, do women value power and status as much as men do? And if not, is this due solely to cultural conditioning?
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  159.  @jacksonmarshallkramer5087  Agreed. And none of that happened to flight 93.
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  160. So it is OK to abort a zygote, if you could?
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  161. Maybe in your country, but most liberal countries now are quite accepting of gays. Stop obsessing over them and get a life. It's too short wasting it on those you don't like. By doing so, you are letting them control you.
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  162. I have not read any of Finkelstein's books, but to judge from his Youtube appearances, it's natural to ask if such hysterical overkill of rage might have an effect on his judgement. In the Dershowitz debate on Democracy Now, he was all obsessed about plagiarism. And what did Dershowitz steal? An ellipsis. Give me a break. I hope his written works are a bit more sober than this drama queen theater.
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  163. There are two things wrong here. One, Owen is a jerk, and "Senior Salute" is an affront to common decency. Two, statutory rape law is an injustice when the participants are both teens close in age. Many states now have this age-difference clause, as they recognize the absurdity of prosecuting teen sex between friends and school mates. There are far better uses of the legal system than to prosecute voluntary sex between teens 15 and older.
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  164.  @paulvanweezepoel745  "You have no idea what you are talking about." That could well be said for most of the above posts. Myths have a way of taking on a life of their own, to the point that even the most basic facts are lost, such as the above claim that "...he ignored the queries from his other pilots onboard." Like, did this poster forget VZ immediately pulled back the throttles when prompted by his co-pilot? The evidence arrogance caused the crash is skimpy. The caricature of VZ in the mayday series is never questioned. There is no record of him telling the FA to "drag them back," for example.
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  165.  @betajoshi  I never heard that. Do you have a source that hundreds of passports were found? Thanks
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  166. But is it more inherently unsafe than driving? In the last 22 years, aboard US airlines, and excluding the commuter / regional aircraft, there was but a single fatality, the woman who was killed in the Southwest engine explosion. One death in 22 years can in no way shape or form be compared to the 1960s. And over long distances even the safest driver in the world ks no match. That's one death in about 100 million flight departures since 2001. For the 1st tier airlines, we more or less live in the post crash age, even factoring in the 737MAX crashes. By absolute standards, and the unsettling reports of bogus parts and fatigued pilots, you can certainly make a case for inherently unsafe. But that is true of every transport mode too. Living is dangerous, period.
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  167.  @mikewilt7857  Outliers always have the burden of proof.
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  168.  @tdot7764  But Ehiopian Airlines was arguably the bigger cause of the crash.
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  169. They didn't try to hide their error, it was accidental.
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  170. Maybe so. But the way I see it, this trial violated the reasonable doubt principle. It assumes that it's crazy or far-fetched to suggest a suicidally depressed person might still be capable of free will, in which case Carter's words would have been no different than anyone else putting pressure on someone else to do a certain thing. So should we declare all suicidally depressed people as incompetent to make their own decisions? Should we assume they have no free ill at all? I don't know the answers to these questions. Just putting the question out there.
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  171. Fairy tales written by ancient men is a pointless exercise.
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  172. Because the humans that wrote the bible said so.
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  173.  @POH341  Underage just means under 18 for the most part, though some societies or contexts it might mean 16 or 17 or even 21. I am a gay man. Are you against me?
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  174.  @iRON90111  The question is better stated as, does biology determine sexual orientation? The scientific answer is: the issue remains unsettled.
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  175.  @JegameJegame  What evidence do you have that leaving gay people alone will harm your society?
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  176.  @alarmservicepros  Pillow Man has yet to make a documented proof available to the public. That says it all. A fraud through and through. This can be ascertained in about 20 seconds of watching him. The real question is, why do so many people have trouble with matters of basic judgement?
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  177.  @joniepalay8339  And some opinions are more mature than others.
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  178. Why are they disgusting? Are they all disgusting?
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  179.  @ebnftl2272  It's absolutely true. Dr. Phil used to be less sensational. Now it's clear his $65 million salary and going for the most shocking attention-getting words reveals ever more dramatically what was always obvious. This man is motivated mainly by ego reputation and money. Desire to help might rank as a distant 4th.
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  180. I agree mostly.He started cussing from the very start. His first words were get the f out of the car. That said, I am 100% this lady was determined to be uncooperative no matter how legit the stop. But I cannot blame her given the present climate of distrust.
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  181. Too much evidence, especially from the archives in Turkey, refute you.
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  182.  @Keyboardwarrior97  I don't recall any videos of him other than the one or two in that one house. FMI, kindly send link if you have time, as I would like to keep that in my "Arbery file."
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  183.  @khosrowzare8301  It all boils down to the same thing. Profit over safety.
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  184. I don't think we know for sure if the cockpit was breached. But either way, the passenger revolt saved lives.
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  185. I know what you mean. Like all those people who think paper items cannot survive a plane crash.
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  186. But it just may be the Navy missile theory is in fact wrong.
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  187. I don't know why the "passport deniers" think they're so clever. Paper items surviving even the most violent of plane crashes is hardly anything new.
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  188. I think you're leaving out the concept of redundancy. Better to have two in case one fails to do the trick. Reasonable? I don't think she's pretending to be courageous. She said repeatedly at the end that what she did was nothing special or out o the ordinary. That any American would also have done so.
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  189.  @dantrav1927  No, you're wrong, sorry.
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  190. For those with unrigorous minds, perhaps.
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  191.  @zsoltsz2323  But can we be too critical with the luxury of hindsight and the constant temptation to post things on social media in the blink of an eye? Not aimed at you by any means. First, did he even know the warning was a warning, or a warning critical to safety? 2nd, it was never his job to check the peep hole in the first place. It was strictly to be carried out by Turkish Airlines crew members. So his instructions were effectively to not be concerned with any of this. He WAS warned never to force the door closed, and by all accounts he was very careful about this. On this particular day, the door closed very easily, due to Turkish Airlines maintenance having tampered with the door mechanism sometime in the recent past. I say we should give him a pass.
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  192. I think any decent person has to agree that advocating life in prison, as he used to, and probably still does, for gays, is a barbaric view. You don't have to like them, but don't destroy their lives. Did any gay person ever ruin your life?
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  193. Hendrik, I agree that the Bible could well be a mix of God's word and ancient man's less developed morality. I would say that a truly omniscient and compassionate and beneficent God could not possibly have devoted so much time to advocating violence. An example -Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey or -a cursing chid should be put to death (paraphrasing) or this one "Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering" Do you agree a truly moral and compassionate being would be incapable of these ghastly sentiments?
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  194. I agree and I'm very pro choice. But, isn't the issue more than just about controlling your body?
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  195. Most of us figured it out 20 years ago. All it took were box cutters. And you're still struggling to figure it out some 2o years on? That's quite sad actually.
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  196.  @scottlavalle  Better a professor than not being able to think outside the conspiracy box. Tell us what is so hard to believe about box cutters getting on to planes in 2001. Do you really lack that elementary level of imagination?
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  197.  @supermanepic15  "if they failed than why try again 8 years later" For the same reason people try to diet multiple times after failing? Or am I missing something.
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  198. "men are suppose to be the smartest" Where on earth did you get that from?
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  199. I think it was excuse-like, but I believe the father is in some denial about it. He genuinely believes his son is a good kid at heart. Since I think the father is suffering too, I wouldn't be too harsh. Like he said, it's total devastation. Sometimes, as in the Brock Turner case, you don't know your child's dark side until he actually does the bad deed. What parent wouldn't defend his son if he's convinced he's good at heart? Is it possible to be good at heart and do something like this at age 16? I wouldn't be too sure of the answer.
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  200. I can refute that in 2 seconds: the market for gay reparative therapy. If it was a choice, there would be no need for the therapy.
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  201.  @GeoStreber  I flew some A-220s recently on Delta, and it is fast becoming my favorite plane. But I can't figure out why. The legroom seems especially excellent, but I can't believe it's seat pitch is any different than other narrowbodies. The window in the rear lavatory is a nice touch. Am I a victim of some type of cognitive bias?
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  202.  @stopcensoring.7959  It's impossible to deny a non-existent proof.
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  203. I think David is right here. The claim that racism cannot be practiced by minority groups amounts to a re-definition of racism. The problem is, one is not entitled to simply re-invent words to one's personal liking. Or more accurately, if you do decide to redefine common usage, at the very least you have to provide a justification for the new definition. The problem is, we don't have that here. There is neither a popular nor scholarly nor even a sociological consensus that this definition is more accurate or more appropriate than the common usage one. So for example, if I claimed that the word sugar means salt, I am committing the same error as the outlier definition of racism. I cannot expect people to adhere to this new definition just because I like it more than you do. Definitions are not determined by what a word personally means to you. But that is precisely what's happening here. Some people are foisting their unproven definitions on all of us. That is not how language works.
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  204. ​ @09K24  Thank you for your reply. If you think people of color cannot be racist in the US, you are in fact redefining the term. That simply does not flow from the definition of racism. Racism has many senses and contexts, and you seem to want to amputate those senses of the word that don't fit the specific type of racism you refer to. Now if I have your position wrong, I apologize. But if not, I don't understand the need to re-invent words by declaring their common usages null and void. If that's your position, maybe you can help me understand how that works. Thank you
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  205. "Ungrateful...". ruled by an oppressive regime, 2nd class status in every way, no participation in government. You are in denial. Kindly consider reading Taner Akcam's book "A Shameful Act," one of the best documented sources derived from the Ottoman archives , and documents and archives in France, Germany and the US. It's about as good as it gets. "No mass graves" That's an easily proven lie, documented thoroughly throughout the book. Scholars in Turkey have been gradually willing to take another look at the evidence. This is progress. Is Akcam a self-loathing Turk? Or someone who can face the truth and not take it as a personal insult to his country? I think that's what drives the denial, this sense of being judged in some ultimate sense. But we are not talking about inferior or superior races. To the contrary, as Akcam writes, "...every group is inherently capable of violence" and can easily happen anywhere "when the right conditions arise....There are no exceptions." To the contrary, when a country or a government fesses up to its past - as Germany has done - it receives greater respect, not less.
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  206. mitch rawles "They don't choose to be Gay-they are Brainwashed-Indoctrinated-turned out-intimidated-raped-abused-fondled-taught-and become confused" Sure, anyone can say anything. What you don't have is evidence. There's no body of evidence that supports this. Just your blind faith.
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  207. DeWayne Benson "There is (no) physical proof that homosexuality is anything other than error of choice. " This statement is virtually meaningless. You need to explain yourself better. The "science" of homosexuality has so far concluded it isn't a conscious choice. All the evidence supports this. Your claim that the fossil record is all one big fake and forgery is pretty silly. Pray tell where is the proof for this preposterous claim?
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  208. +cpwm17 I think Uygur is someone who tries to be fair, but his analysis is rather superficial.
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  209. mitch rawles "They cannot reproduce" Neither can sterile men and women.  "danger of Aids" Yup. To which I would add; HUMANS: danger of murder, rape, genocide, drunk driving, war of mass destruction, end of civilization as we now it, pedophilia, drug addiction, racism, evil, environmental pollution, poisonous western diet, and religious intolerance. So humans do (or risk) all these things, including gay and straight people. Let's just call humans perverted wicked and evil. Why don't we start with diet: McDonald's, sugar, saturated fat, sodium - promoted by more straight people than gay people. That's perverted.  Go for it.
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  210. ***** "psychological problems" Being brainwashed and indoctrinated since childhood is bound to cause psychological problems. The problem is, the sufferer of such delusions is usually unable to recognize the affliction. Self-delusion can usually only be identified from the outside. For Mitch, unless he has the intelligence to understand the nature of evidence (doubtful), it's probably far too late for deprogramming.
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  211. +JamesHLanier I know exactly what I am talking about: 1) There is a "wage gap" between men and women, meaning that on average, men as a whole make about 28% more than women. It does not mean men get paid 28% more for doing the same exact work. 2) The causes of this wage gap, when controlled for all of the variables, show that most of this gap has nothing to do with employer discrimination. If you want sources, I can give them to you. cheers
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  212. +Francis Fawkes I believe you are far removed from reality. Since there's not an iota of proof the bible is the word of God, it's futile to engage in a discussion about what God thinks. "There are also Christian ministries which deliver people from homosexuality." The reparative therapy mvt has been proven a dismal failure time and again. This scandal-ridden industry is basically a fraud. It's an embarrassment, and based on nothing more than wishful thinking and/or trying to make a buck by exploiting gay people. Let's talk about necrophilia for a moment, as it's constantly brought up by anti-gay folk. Have you ever met anyone who sleeps with the dead? Have you ever even seen a single case in the newspapers? Do such people really exist? OK, so, maybe there's that one person in a 10 million or something. Do we need to compare homosexuals, who number in the 10s of millions, and whose urges are shared by roughly 50% of the population. with a largely fictitious microscopic minority whose object of lust is shared by virtually no one else? In any event, necrophiles, if they exist at all, should be the last of our worries. It's the living whom we should be concerned about. I fear for my and your life, not a corpse. cheers
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  213. +Deven The key word is "convince." People have convinced me of doing things many many times. Does that prove I'm mentally unstable? "He got out of the truck because he was scared." Too open to interpretation for me. Analogy: I remember being afraid to do things, especially as a child - swallowing pills, diving into the swimming pool,for examples, but I was coaxed by adults to do them, partly because even as a child I recognized it was in my own interest. People hesitate and change their minds all the time out of fear, reluctance. "Scared" has reasonable doubt written all over it. Anyway, I welcome disagreement. It's healthy to debate this.
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  214. +Jeremy As I understand it, the case for manslaughter depends on Roy having no ability to defend himself against her texts. That in turn depends on proving Roy was defenseless. That's the way manslaughter usually works. Do we have (mental health community) a well-established procedure to determine that depressed and suicidal people are of necessity completely helpless? This judgement just strikes me as having proceeded too quickly with too many unproven assumptions.
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  215. +Neo A. No, you're wrong. Homosexuality is not a sin, and gays will not go to hell. It is evil and wicked to tell someone they will go to hell for nonviolent actions which do not harm others. cheers
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  216. +Physician Alpha So, I still don't have a rational reason to reject the following scenario: God creates intelligent beings who will not sin. They are hardwired to not choose, among other things, wanton aggression, violence, rape , etc. Not because they don't have free will. But because it is simply not in their nature. Just as it is not in our natures to stand on our heads and eat lentils all day long. God could have decided the very concept of extreme suffering would not be a feature of the universe. Now, if you can provide an explanation why God could not have chosen the above specifications, you may be onto something. cheers
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  217. Reasonable assumption but wrong. The only debris 8 miles away was paper and insulation carried there by air currents. This debris was also downwind, not where the plane itself overflew. This would not be the first time debris was carried by air currents.
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  218.  @mar4oz  Well there's precedent for that: US Air flight 427, coincidentally also in western PA. In that case, and intact airliner went nose first into the ground, and some 5 minutes later paper and insulation fell onto a golf course some 2 miles distant. The number of passengers doesn't prove much unless there is some scientific equation that says without x number of passengers, paper debris is y % less likely to end up z miles away. :)
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  219. You have fallen for the junk science of the truth movement and failed to detect all of its lies, such as their Big Lie that cell phones from flight 93 could not have worked. Or building 7 had only small fires. And you probably believe it, right? If you want to see engineer Tony Szamboti be soundly refuted by Ryan Mackey , please ad this to your watch list: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1u3KO9kUdE cheers
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  220. That's pure speculation. Maybe the father was to blame. Sometimes parents do all the right things and end up with a serial killer.
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  221. As I said, while men do the dirty work, there's always a female making an excuse for him.
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  222.  @moniquepace8952  The judge's main failing was the assumption he could read Travis' mind. There is absolutely no way for anyone to know Travis's mental state when he pulled the trigger. It could just as easily have been a reflex reaction when someone unexpectedly grabs your gun, a reflexive impulsive defense. Are you a mind reader too?
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  223. Because you'll believe anything. Roth has zero credibility.
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  224.  @abdul-qaderhaimour8117  Anyone who claims to have done so many thousands of ours of research, yet still thinks many of the hijackers were still alive, demonstrates their poor research skills.
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  225. I used to think Rodney Stich, the noted air safety author, was an alarmist. But considering the history of commercial air crashes very carefully and completely, I now more or less agree with him. Virtually every crash, at least until quite recently, was due to basic violations of the system, or a system that was inherently unsafe. And even today, it seems almost a miracle planes don't fall out of the sky as regularly.
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  226.  @andrewd6236  Not following you. What was the government's alleged purpose in making flight 93 part of 9/11? What was their main goal for this flight?
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  227.  @leewilliams.380  But that's wrong. We have at least 2 other examples: Northwest flight 710 - entire fuselage literally disappeared under the ground. Investigators had never seen anything like it. Another very well known recent example is Ethiopian 737max crash. What many may not have noticed is that all the debris you see was dug up from the crater. The very first photos show nothing but a hole in the ground. The reason such scenarios are rare is because most planes do not usually fall steeply down in one piece. In 911, though, this was precisely the intention of the F93 hijackers: to crash it straight down and fast. edit: "The doomed flight crashed six minutes after take-off from Addis Ababa in clear conditions. 'Most of the wreckage was found buried in the ground,' ” Just like flight 93.
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  228.  @andrewd6236  Well, some of these points do force one to pause and think, yes. Like WTC 7, a portion of which they say apparently fell a little faster than gravity. I'm curious though, where have we ever "seen this before," that is, on a scale anything like this. And I am not saying "conspiracies" are always ridiculous. I put forth Pan Am 103 as perhaps the most persuasive case I have seen of probable cover-up.
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  229. KLM by far. This is one case where Mentour Pilot doesn't acknowledge the obvious.
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  230. Which god is going to judge, the Muslim one, the Druze one, or the Christian one.
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  231. People moving votes in to WHAT building?
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  232. Right on the money. Most of the population has always rejected the notions of scholarship, and proof. They couldn't care less. They were never taught how to evaluate evidence. So it should hardly be surprising how easy it is to brainwash millions.
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  233. Why aren't the men joining them. France has been one of the most progressive countries for gender equality.
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  234. The two madmen of our time: Trump and Netanyahu.
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  235.  @Gpacharlie  Everyone approaches it differently. I don't consider myself to have existed in any meaningful sense until I had some semblance of a mind. So aborting me at say, even one month gestation, does not concern me, any more than it would concern me had my parents decided against having s-x on the particular night day that led to my conception. IMO the pro-life position is all academic. It doesn't do harm in any down to earth sense. Slaughtering some animals causes far more harm, but we don't forbid it. That is a paradox, and a result of turning humanity into an academic concept rather than based on genuine empathy. Just my personal thoughts.
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  236. This may be true, but it's irrelevant to the shooting, since the McMichaels could not positively identify him. That means their pursuit of a citizens arrest was illegal.
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  237.  @cherifaly6757  So a word of blessing is lacking a life? Pretty presumptuous. Anyone who acknowledges tragedy on an anniversary must simultaneously acknowledge all the bad things the US government has done too? You don't even know this person.
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  238. These were real criminals. What do you call pointing a loaded weapon at a man simply running down the road? That's what was correctly called "reckless endangerment." If you suspect someone of trespassing, do you have the right to point a loaded shotgun at them? That should be a NO BRAINER.
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  239. Because most US citizen's didn't fly with passports back then. I guess you forgot to connect that dot.
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  240. Jimmy: Joe is 100% correct. If gay were really a choice, then YOU would also have the ability to choose being attracted to men. You could choose to "get it up for other dudes." That's the very definition of gay choice. To say otherwise is to say only gays can choose to be gay, which is circular reasoning in any case.
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  241. And Kenya is of no importance to the world. Though it's a good place for a safari.
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  242. "Maybe you should look in the mirror " Interesting how he's unaware how we're 10 steps ahead of him. I predicted in advance this sort of outcome just on the tone of his first response to me. I knew that when I called him on his mistake, he would react as immature people tend to: either try and shut me up, or disappear. Precisely like those scared CTers who ban everyone from their Youtube ads who fail to strictly obey the party line. As BS as they come. Total and complete textbook example, he.
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  243.  @TheTruthAllDay  Yes, I had a feeling you would have nothing to say about my post. Merry Christmas
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  244. Asbolutely. Van Zanten the murderer would seem to be the more appropriate title as far as the Youtube mob is concerned.
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  245. Along way to go, yes. Like the felony murder law, which has done more harm to blacks, for example.
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  246. The more you read, the more you should have discovered that the authorization for a shoot down came too late; and that there's next to no evidence it was shot down, and plenty of counter evidence it wasn't. Such as the .003 percent of the plane found outside the crash zone, and then exaggerated into major wreckage.
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  247. Neither was perfect, but I think Harris comes off as having far more wisdom and realism than Ben. Ben is the one, after all, who actually talks with the same staccato cadence of a computer. He created rather disproportional analogies, and stated the transfer of power was peaceful. That's about as delusional as it gets. Bu that said, I think they both were at the top of their game, the best debating I've seen from both of them.
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  248. Why can't you guys learn the facts before posting. They found an engine core in the crater and there's a photo of it. A State trooper found part of an engine in a catch basin. There was plenty of debris but most of it was beneath the crater. The cockpit was found in the trees, a 5-7 ft piece of fuselage with window panes was also photographed. C'mon man, do your homework. Both black boxes were found, again the pics have been on the web for decades now. DO YOUR HOMEWORK
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  249.  @bluecannibaleyes  Why a defect? define defect for us.
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  250. That's not an established fact.
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  251. Whatever one thinks of the democratic machine and individual instances of interference, there was close to zero proof of a stolen election. The fact he won again attests to this.
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  252. Well at the very least, dirt eating is much more common in Africa than in the West. I wouldn't be surprised if they ate that stuff too.
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  253. The God I have examined is not my construct at all, but the construct of the Bible itself, in its own alleged words. And in that construct what I find is a God that not even the worst serial killers could rival. There are passages in the bible that in any and all contexts are so depraved that not even ordinary people would utter them, much less a perfect Being. One can only imagine a truly omniscient, compassionate , loving beneficent Being expressing such ghastly sentiments if one has, in the words of Dan Barker, abandoned all sense of moral judgement. In that case, if God ordered you to say, kill blacks and jews, you do it unquestionably.
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  254. The one that glorifies gay killing, no doubt.
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  255. Too bad you rank bedroom management above mass murder and torture of the opposition party.
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  256. Possibly. But there have always been a significant portion of honorable men who abhor all injustice.
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  257.  Apollox44 Pollo  "I haven't researched it, it's just my opinion" As I thought. Did you just go back and delete that comment about childless couples? I can't find it anywhere, but if you did delete it, you are to be congratulated.
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  258. If you did the research yourself, then your words might hold some water. But you haven't.
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  259.  Tina1924  Well if you know anything about heuristics, it's absolutely possible to make a mistake which happens outside of conscious awareness. I'm not saying she didn't also behave recklessly. But there have been other cases of mistaken gun-for-taser by police. This may be one of those cases that shows again how common sense is often wrong.
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  260. Indian Lake is about 1.5 miles from impact the way the crow flies. Bullets can go way farther than that. The densest items found at Indian Lake were small pieces of metal. They were found mixed with pine needles, also found near the impact site. Put 2 and 2 together.
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  261. The media also reported Pope John Paul II's death a day early. Interesting how the truth movement call the media liars. --- except when it supports their bias.
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  262. Rape culture alive and well.
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  263. Not if she walked away.
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  264. You left out the "I" after "B".
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  265. @stopcensoring.7959 Quit being a toddler.
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  266. And Kenya is of no importance to the rest of the world.
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  267. Which plane had more than 3 cockpit crew members?
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  268. I don't think so. What normal kid, however prone to bad mistakes, wants to assault a 98-year old? And continue to have s=x when she's dead. This is way beyond a massive mistake, as I see it. This is beyond anything remotely normal.
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  269. You got it.
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  270. Absolutely right, a totally overblown story that amounts to little more than teenage sex and an unproven rape charge.
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  271. Written by ancient peoples, why should we follow it?
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  272. And for thriving conspiracy theories pushed by fools and dunces.
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  273. on what?
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  274. Don't pretend there's only one valid side to the issue.
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  275. glistening with hate.
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  276.  @fredo3161  If I proposed the death penalty for being black, would you call that hate?
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  277. Well that makes him an idiot. He wants gays to get life in prison.
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  278. Europe seems to have a problem with this. 30 years is the max penalty for murder in many countries there.
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  279. HELLO - Every plane that has been "shot down" has then crashed!! Plus, you're incorrect. There were only 2 other limited debris fields: a few scattered pieces of paper/insulation, found 8 miles away; and a few tiny fragments about 1.5 miles away. No other wreckage was found beyond these locations. So where is all the crash wreckage? "too small" So were most of the pieces they found at Shanksville. High speed crashes tend to produce thousands of tiny pieces.
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  280. ​ @ganondorf66  I wouldn't disagree. But who do you think has greater responsibility, the zoo building a child-proof enclosure, or a parent never making a mistake? Similarly, if a toddler is able to open an emergency door in flight, does that speak more to a parent, or to the airline? This is why I feel theses discussions are not prioritizing the hierarchy of responsibility.
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  281. The truth is you're wrong.
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  282. If she should pay big time for a mistake, then we have lost the distinction between mistakes under stress versus much more reckless manslaughter or even drunk drivers, and shaken baby syndrome. This is more akin to pilot error under stress. Thank goodness we don't put commercial pilots in jail in the US for mistakes under stress.
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  283.  @MalingAsliSukolilo  OMG you are living in a world of make believe. Her first question is, "What is your message to....." SHE'S GIVING HIM A PLATFORM ON AN MAJOR INTERNATIONAL NEWS OUTLET TO CRITIQUE THE WEST AND THE LGBTQ MVT Had the exact same question been asked by FOX News, you would be saying, "Way to go FOX !!"
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  284. What about the death penalty for gays, which he recently signed into law? Do you agree with murdering your fellow citizens too?
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  285. The reason to doubt him is that no one seems to have ever recorded it, despite it being on national TV.
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  286.  @reginageorge4  Both, I agree.
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  287. Never before has there been controlled demolition of a skyscraper. Therefore it couldn't have happened.
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  288. Yes.
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  289.  @POH341  How do you know what I do?
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  290.  @iRON90111  That may be your opinion, but it's hardly an established fact. It also makes little sense from the standpoint of evolution. Heterosexuality evolved because it's crucial for an organism's ability to pass on its genes to its offspring. You cannot so casually decouple biology from matters that are crucial for survival. Any more than you could say, thirst is due to preference. So if you accept the theory of evolutionary biology, and sexual attraction, the idea sexuality (orientation) is based on the arbitrary whims of you or your parents/friends/ childhood decisions, has little credibility. Can you point to a body of evidence to support your claim? Or is it just your personal intuition?
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  291. The thing that makes Youtube comments so endearing is you never need to worry about proof. Just say whatever you want, unchecked by reality.
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  292. No, wrong, sorry.
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  293. This is what happens when you are brainwashed by 9/11 truth, Inc. You can see parts of the plane on the lawn in close up photos. Inside, there were pics of engine compressors, and landing gear. The book "Firefight" is a detailed account by recovery workers, all giving their names, attesting to aircraft parts. They are all liars, right? You won't know any of this if you only read truther sites.
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  294. For many probably. But hard to believe the psychology of the average rapist is the same as for the average man.
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  295. Based on what, your paranoid fantasies and complete and total lack of proof?
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  296. An off duty commercial airline pilot claims one of the objects suddenly shot eastward towards JFK airport. It should be enough to prove that even experienced witnesses are not reliable when it comes to judging distances at night.
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  297. We neither need fairy tails nor shouting to make your point. Grow up.
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  298. Can you show us the proof the illegals have a higher rate of violence?
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  299. A theory which has been debunked ad nauseum and which makes no sense even if it were present.
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  300. Yes, the people have woken up to the fact that after 23 years of possessed youtube posters, especially those who shout in upper case throughout, spouting garbage about 911, arr to be safely dismissed as crackpots.
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  301.  user-ol6zy2pb9b  Kindly tell us what the government hoped to achieve with flight 93. Why was it needed if the plan already called for 3 toppled skyscrapers and 2,800 deaths? If you can't answer that, you have nothing to go on.
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  302. It was only a bit of scattered paper and insulation, carried there by air currents, just as happened in the case of PSA 1771, and USAir 427.
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  303. Real men aren't the most celebrated mass murderer in a country's history.
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  304.  user-ol6zy2pb9b  It certainly did. Mounds of evidence confirm it: though not many as one would like, there are indeed wreckage photos, including both black boxes, part of an engine, we have the radar tape tracking it there, we have the testimony of the controllers who monitered it there. The county coroner ID'ng all the victims (was he fooled, or threatened with death?). A photo of the crash plume, 12 witnesses identified by name who saw the crash as it happened. We have the engine part found by a state trooper near the catch basin. Was he lying? Over 1,000 recovery workers were involved in the clean up. None suggested anything untoward (that I am aware of). And of course the obvious: the phone calls. And now the evidence of a fake crash: zero. cheers
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  305.  @johngalush8790  It actually went 8 miles, but only a few wispy pieces of paper and insulation in the town of New Baltimore, carried there by air currents.
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  306. These observations are valid to an extent, I agree. But IMHO an event of this magnitude and uniqueness is bound to result in numerous oddities and coincidences, government cover up or not. Whenever one digs deeply coincidences abound. Such as the New York state lottery number being 911 on Sep 11, 2002. With millions of interacting data points, some are bound to collide in a way that suggests human design. That may also be a part of our hardwiring- we tend to see agency behind everything. I just see that as the nature of reality. It continually outsmarts our common sense intuitions.
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  307. It's utterly irrelevant to the outcome of the trial. The two men behaved recklessly no matter how you slice it.
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  308.  @famousmwofficial8046  We aren't literally forcing Uganda to do anything. We have put a lot of pressure on him, and again it's a shame the US is focusing on gay rights rather than putting Museveni's horrendous regime in the forefront of international concern. Not because of gays but because of plain old fashioned thuggery. That's what this CNN correspondent should have asked him. Thank you for your replies.
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  309. Sure, if we want a president who claims immigrants eat dogs for lunch, then you have your man. Note that it's among the 40 most senior republicans that worked with him stated he's not fit for office. They state "impossible," "fascist." These matters are of far more importance than policy differences. K Harris is a normal human being. Trump is a psychopath.
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  310. And what is that, criminalizing peaceful behavior?
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  311. If it exploded in the sky, where's all the wreckage?
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  312. It's pretty basic level of fraud.
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  313. Yes, like Museveni, they're all rather brutal and murderous.
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  314. Maybe so. But it's hard to live up to the corrupt and murderous Ugandan president, who has slaughtered more innocent people than Obote and Idi Amin combined.
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  315. I would be careful there. While you seem to be an unusually tolerant gay man, remember, this man advocated life in prison for gays. So I don't think you'd feel this way if you lived in Uganda.
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  316. Well not to mention that looked nothing like a DC-9 cabin.
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  317.  @michaelgilman7930  Not that it changes the general theme, but some debris, only paper and insulation, actually did fall on the town of New Baltimore some 8 miles to the southeast of the crash site, the way the crow flies. It was carried there by air currents. :)
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  318.  @m0joj0jo666  OK, what evidence would you cite for flight 175 being blown up near Shanksville? I'd like to follow the dots.
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  319.  @jjkhawaiian  It did, but that's because in both cases the basic principles are essentially the same. it's gravity that is responsible for the speed and the direction of the collapse. Not 100% exactly the same but close enough. Just ask any demo expert of your choosing. I remember having this very conversation with Bent Blanchard years ago, long before he became a go-to source for everyone. The primary element in a CD is to remove the support from one or two floors. The fires in the WTC did the same thing: they removed the crucial support at one location. The additional wiring in a cd is to help break apart the debris and help direct the fall straight down. He told me of a demo they had just done in Buffalo, as I recall, and in that case there was no wiring of the whole building, only the lower floors were wired. That is the outstanding lesson I learned. Just my take of course. But I recommend talking to experts yourself rather than trust what either the government or the truth mvt. has to say. They are both untrustworthy entities.
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  320.  @loganvggvv641  As much as I support gays and gay rights, I agree the "they must be gay themselves" response is really just speculation. For some I'm sure. But the much more intuitive reason is that, especially for young straight men, gay "behavior" is threatening to the ideals of masculinity. These young men are more likely to fear they might be gay, than to actually be gay. Just my take.
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  321. But anyone has a right to express their opinion. I can respect and understand Uganda culture to a degree. But the death penalty for "aggravated homosexuality" passes any level of common decency. You don't kill people for being gay. This is basic civility. The world has no place for this level of barbarism.
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  322.  @reginageorge4  Obviously it is or they wouldn't have passed laws against it !!! But, not being the majority culture doesn't give you the right to kill. I hope we can at least find common ground on that.
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  323.  @reginageorge4  Does that mean you have the right to slaughter them, as Musevini thinks? Or are you capable of rising above his level of barbarism?
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  324.  @julia2k8  On May 26th, Musevini signed the Anti-Homosexuality Act, which "prescribes life imprisonment for gay sex and the death penalty for 'aggravated homosexuality' ." The latter includes persons "with a previous conviction of homosexuality." So by merely having gay sex one too many times, or "with persons older than seventy-five," he wants you dead. This should be universally recognized as pure barbarism. If anyone deserves the death penalty, it's thugs like Musevini himself. widely seen as having killed more people than both Obote and Idi Amin combined. Ple4ase don't make excuses for a mass murderer.
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  325. Do you share his taste for torture, butchery and fraudulent elections too?
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  326.  @alasarcher400  This is true, and he deserves punishment. BUT, it is still a miscarriage of basic justice for him to get a life sentence. Life sentences should be reserved for worst case behavior, not for someone who never even imagined, so far as we know, that the victim would be shot. And had no intention, and for which there is no proof he intended to kill the victim. This is all due to the Felony Murder principle, a standard of punishment that runs roughshod over the principle of the punishment being proportional to the crime. It has been especially harmful to blacks. This terrible crime is nonetheless a case of a basic lack of principle. There was also a lack of due process for the Ms, who were in a sense victims of arrogant and sloppy jurists, who fancied themselves mind readers.
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  327. To avoid a possible delay at Las Palmas, with a potentially long wait for refueling due to all the diverted planes suddenly requesting fuel for their return flights to the mainland.
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  328. This confirms again the major news media have stopped being news reporters. "It brought justice to the family." Sorry, that isn't news but an opinion. Standards no longer exist anywhere it seems. If Fox news were to say "the verdict was an injustice," do you think they would get away with it?
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  329.  @jamgrl38  They were rightly found guilty. But one can certainly argue the harshness of the penalties, at least regarding Bryan.
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  330. Still in the anal phase of development I see. Or is it just that you want to be identified as a foul smelling child? If so, you're doing a great job.
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  331. Why are we all judging her to death. Maybe that's the way she usually dresses?
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  332.  @markbarger1791  "I don't have to present evidence." But you would if it really existed.
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  333.  @bryant071  I'll give you my evidence after you give me yours. This is called a two-way conversation.
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  334. +laughnow Huh? This case has nothing to do with bullying. It's about using someone for your own selfish goals. Certainly Conrad did not perceive her words as bullying. Maybe you didn't read the case carefully enough?
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  335. Even though I fully support gay people, the lgbtqtuvwxyz123456 crowd can be very annoying at times.
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  336. You left out the Third Reich.
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  337.  @cuba8188  Irrelevant. My analogy has to do with the persecution of gays, fascist regime or otherwise.
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  338.  @cuba8188  I'm not saying you're a Nazi. But the fact is, killing gays, which is what Musevini recently endorsed, is only a milder version of extermination. I don't see where the moral element enters. Morality differs from person to person, religion to religion. To me, the Golden Rule is perhaps the closest basic principle of morality. Since gays are not persecuting anyone, why is it immoral? Are they violating the golden rule?
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  339. My own opinion: pilots should always go with the most cautious option when in a grey area. Even without knowing the manual, when you hear poor braking, your automatic default setting (in your mind) should be 5 knots tailwind, not 10. With only 40 feet margin, would you be comfortable telling this to your pax? That also confirms the risk was unacceptable.
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  340.  @marcdraco2189  This is true, and not too long ago by some measures cars were safer. But since about 2000, the safety has reached incredible levels. Just take the US. Excluding the regionals, there's been only a single death on US airliners since 2001. Not even driving a single mile in a car in this period could match that safety. My best guess is driving just 50 feet = the fatality risk per flight in this period.
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  341. That's correct, they didn't kill them for hundreds of years, just about 10 or so years between 1894 and 1924.
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  342. It is true. But it doesn't get the father/son off the hook. By any reasonable standard, you have no right to subject a potentially innocent person to a 4 minute armed chase. With guns clearly on display. No presumed innocent person should be subjected to that level of stress/ fear. No way.
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  343.  @anton1949  You are wrong. You should have said "like most crashes." Here's an example: "There were pieces of wreckage around the perfectly formed rim. Some other metal fragments were hurled fifteen hundred feet away. But the one hundred foot fuselage itself had disappeared entirely." This is exactly what happened to both United flight 93 and Ethiopian flight 302. You need to really do the required research to unearth (no pun intended) before leaping to such conclusions. cheers
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  344.  @St_Augustines_Cry8  Very light debris such as pieces of paper carried by air currents is unusual but not unique. It happened at least twice before: PSA flight 1771, found 8 miles away; and US Air flight 427, insulation and paper found two miles away. One again, reality has a way of outsmarting us humans and our sense of certainty about our intuitions.
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  345. He's as much a hypocrite as she is. He wants to meddle in the lives of others.
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  346.  @andysoch  "Read 'Destination Disaster' book by the Sunday Times Insight team." Yes, a great book, if not the greatest of its kind. They are right to defend the baggage handler.
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  347. The problem is, many people don't have the sensible judgement you have.
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  348. There will always be people like yourself, invoking terms like truth and "scientific," who have little regard for their real meaning. The towers' collapses have been extensively analyzed, both by members of the truth mvt, the government. and by independent researchers. One fallacy of the truth movement is the common claim that anyone with a 9th grade science education would know the collapses were impossible. Not so. The science is very complex, and that alone is the first indication that these type of truthers are utterly unreliable, arrogant, and deceptive. I challenge you to provide a scientific proof beyond reasonable doubt that explosives were necessary. If you can't provide it, or cite it, that says everything one needs to know.
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  349. The military did not shoot this plane down!
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  350. "Sometimes you have to listen to your heart." I hear you. But none of this proves beyond a reasonable doubt he was guilty of murder/manslaughter. regards
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  351.  @makiba9461  You are free to speak out about it without penalty, witness your post here. And you can post in a thousand different places too. The real problem is Kenya, whose culture is not as enlightened as in the US, and the West in general.
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  352. People who say "all men, " I mean I get it. If abuse runs in your family, then it might be impossible not to believe that. But for many other women, it seems they have never seen a man suffer, be heart broken at losing his daughter. Never seen a boy innocently playing in the sand, never met a mother who loved her son. Whatever the excuse, it's an example of woman's inhumanity to man. It actually works both ways.
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  353. That's a bad caricature. Very few people love abortion. Additionally, it's not even an argument.
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  354. But that's explained by the fact that galaxies are huge and the remnants we left behind are tiny. Kindly give the formula that shows today's most powerful telescopes can provide the level of power needed to see these remains. If you can't demonstrate it with hard facts, you have nothing but personal speculation.
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  355.  @xninjawolfx  I have no problem personally with him. The problem is, he doesn't return the favor. His is a philosophy of hate. A more enlightened principle might be, "mind you own business." We in the West have now largely learned that we need not stick our noses into other people's affairs. And the West is not falling apart because of it. Gays are 2% of the population. A mature person recognizes the deeper truth that if they aren't personally harming you, be an adult. Don't stop others from living their lives. Spend your precious time on this earth living your own life, and doing something more productive.
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  356. In a forum like this, we are under no obligation to reveal our nationality, or respect the views of anyone. The US has no plans to invade Uganda over homosexuality. So if one acknowledges this, it's still fair game to criticize a depraved standard. It's just garden variety hypocrisy to demand the West's respect while simultaneously not respecting gay people. I don't say this as a representative of the US. The US is far from perfect, but that said, still more enlightened by far.
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  357.  @loudmusickillsthepain648  from wiki: "A third gunshot is heard being fired by Travis at point-blank range as Arbery appears to throw a right-handed punch at his head" Even as a troll, you lack talent.
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  358.  @loudmusickillsthepain648  That said I must give you credit for some creativity. Like misspelling all the names. Michaelson? Get a life bro
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  359. What a refreshing outcome. A judge who has the right combination of fairness and empathy to resist the political and racial hysteria that is the wellspring of support for a longer sentence.
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  360. But wrong to kill gays, which he recently passed in to law. That should be of more concern to any decent person, whether you like gays or not.
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  361. And you believe everything your told.
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  362. Well I have to agree with that!
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  363. These two women are experts?
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  364.  @stopcensorship7705  Some advice. Comedy is not your strong point.
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  365.  @stopcensorship7705  "get a sense of humour then," I think you may have misunderstood. My sense of humor is tuned to a higher level.
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  366. It's the way he's doing it, lack of empathy, 2 hours notice, disrespect for the law. Remember, he's a criminal at heart. And the laws don't matter to him.
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  367.  @megangwilliam5343  Thank you for this nice learning exchange.
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  368. There are two truths here. Yours, and the one you cannot see.
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  369.  @RonJones_eVisibleMarketing  Not if your standard is the Bible, whose truth quotient is unknown.
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  370. I'm a liar you say? Here's a quote from Jim Sanders' "Altered Evidence" p152 "no conclusive evidence the materials. . . contained rocket propellant.. . . . ."A basic elemental analysis could not provide 'conclusive' evidence. But the test provided elements that were 'consistent with' residue from solid-fuel missile." This is exactly what I stated earlier. Get the book and do some reading, know-it-all. You're flat wrong and I just proved it. Sheesh
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  371.  @worldofpaisen  Everything?? I don't think so. Some things have taken a downturn, others arguably have improved. What has gotten better? In the West the murder rate continues to decline, despite mass shootings. In the US it has fallen almost in half in the last 30 years. Also 30 years ago there were twice as many wars going on. These last 2 data points are from Steve Pinker's latest Ted Talk. Or take the decline of corporal punishment in prisons and reform schools, the continuation of a sensitivity to violence going on for centuries now. We consider the welfare of animals. Back in the late 1800s in Paris, they used to burn cats on stage for entertainment. These changes represent in my view a continuing and undeniable evolution of morality. In other departments I agree it's not always rosy. There's been a decline in standards, in raising children and the acceptance of mediocrity, and a more relentlessly greed-driven approach to everything. So to me it's a mixed bag.
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  372.  @worldofpaisen  [Correction: cat burning was not 1800s] Of course to a true believer there is no debate about anything. Concerning biblical morality, I'm curious what your take is on the seeming worst passages, such as Leviticus saying anyone who curses their parents shall be put to death. Do you have any thoughts on that passage? Thanks
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  373. There's one element missing from your equation. In time sensitive and stressful situations, we all employ shortcut reasoning based on simplified assumptions because there's not enough time to consciously reason every detail out. The fancy term for this is heuristics if one wants to learn more about it. The problem is, behavior under stress is not always perfect and in some cases leads to big errors. But the key take away is that these errors are often completely unconscious, so the person committing them has no way to guard against them. This is precisely what could have happened here. Also, while not exactly the same, a Google image search shows that tasers and hand guns often look very similar, and have the same basic size and design. Similar enough that under stress, you might make such a mistake. I say give the benefit of the doubt to Potter. It's the same reason we don't lock up commercial pilots for their fatal errors. You can't expect perfection under stress. Period.
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  374. SOP is to always stay committed to flight (unless impossible) after passing V1 speed. This was after V2. This is sound philosophy in general, but there will always be exceptions. The crew most likely had no reason to think all control would be lost.
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  375. But she did to, according to several sources. She ate meat, which requires the use of violence.
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  376. Humanity is a lie. We are a corrupt species thru and thru, wired for violence and blood shed at every turn. USA, Russia, China, Ancient Rome, the Vikings, all of them.
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  377. Look, the guy's a madman. He wants to kill gays. That's just another aspect of his overall history of thugism, and being the bloodiest murderer of any Ugandan president in history. This is nothing more than an orgy and celebration of death. Gays ar not out to kill you. So it;s a gross violation of the golden rule.
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  378. Well your first error is to take at face value the truth movement mantra there were only fires on a few floors.
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  379. When you have the proof, please provide the link.
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  380. This could well be the modern day version. That it was somewhat less brutal, and prosecuted to the max, could well confirm the theory, espoused by such diverse thinkers as Noam Chomsky, Peter Singer and Steven Pinker, of an "expanding circle of morality" over the last several centuries. Perhaps some modest progress has been made since the days of witch hunts, slavery, and cat burning in the city of Paris. Maybe I am too optimistic?
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  381. Why are they being wrongfully jailed? They pointed a gun at a man. So if the man gets shot, it's automatically their fault. The timing proves it.
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  382. +Lilly Yarney Based solely on the evidence, there was reasonable doubt as to GB's motive. That has to be taken seriously. That's why he was found innocent. cheers
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  383. ***** "Sick perverted disgusting." Yup, and you think that's going to stop them? Wishful thinking.
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  384. *****  "I said science proves the Bible to be accurate" Accurate in what sense? That it is the literal word of God?
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  385. ***** "Homosexuality is a word used for homosexual sex practices." Its definition is both as an orientation (like left-handedness) and as a behavior. Perversity is in the eye of the beholder, and no one knows what God really thinks of it.
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  386. ***** "There is no such thing possible as a civil discussion with atheists, gays, muslims, satanists, or anyone else that denies God, His Son, and His word." The above is precisely why the terms "intolerance" and "fanatic" remain active words in the English language. It couldn't be more textbook. It's basic that if someone doesn't act with cruelty towards another, you treat them with civility, end of discussion. That's the way mature people behave. Think about being a therapist for a moment. A patient comes to see you to deal with his problems, and mentions he's an atheist. Are you going to kick him out and call him uncivil? No, only an evil person would do that. You'd try to help him, right? To say otherwise disqualifies you from taking such posts or positions in society. So I hope you aren't a therapist !! Your goal is to help people, not be mean to them. This is like Civility 101. It goes totally against the rigid intolerance you espouse. As to proof, take the claim God exists. Think carefully for a moment: what category of evidence could in principle prove God beyond a shadow of a doubt? I cannot think of one. Even if you could provide evidence of an arc, a big flood, or that the age of the earth is 6000+ years, there's still the possibity some advanced civilization created the world, and not God. So tell us how we can be 100% sure the world is God's doing? If you cannot, don't blame me for not being able to either. cheers
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  387. ***** "your statement uninformed and ignorant" What statement was that? They all look informed to me. I'm pointing out that your methodology is ridiculous. Your implied point is that if different groups have different statistical representations, that means we should automatically conclude the worse represented group should be condemned. That's ridiculous. Disraeli's comment "lies, dam lies and statistics" couldn't have found a better context than you. By the exact same logic, you can argue that since only about 10-15% of gays are HIV infected (in the US) the vast majority of gay men are not spreading around disease. Your methodology allows for this conclusion. But your emotions do not. So you only select the statistics that support your emotions. For someone always touting his own horn, you fall prey to the easiest errors. cheers
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  388. ***** "1. Are you absolutely certain everything you just stated is absolutely true?" No. Absolutism is your department, not mine. "2. How do you know that it's true?" Which specific claim? I made several. "3. How do you know the Bible is not the word of God? I don't. I never said it wasn't. "4. How can you say anyone else can't know if the Bible is inspired by God?" Because human beings do not have omniscience. Therefore, every last piece of evidence presented as evidence of God is subject to the objection that my hypothetical "Charlie" could have created it instead.  Example: you hear a voice in your mind and it says "I am God." That could be Charlie mimicking God. Example: archeological evidence: could have been planted by Charlie Example: "evolution could not have happened" So not just God, but Charlie too, could have created us in 7 days. "5. How do you know science hasn't proven many things written about in the the Bible are true?" That's not my specific argument. There may well be some level of corroboration of some Biblical events. It still wouldn't prove that God, rather than Charlie, authored the Bible. "6. You are aware that archaeologists are scientist right?" I would say they are. Anyone who endeavors to increase the world's store of knowledge is in effect a scientist. "7. You are aware that historians use scientific methods to determine whether an event or person is historical or not right?" Indeed. However, both science and historiography, while they can sometimes determine that people or events once existed, do not have the means (at present) to establish an absolute proof that God exists. What category of evidence can that be? As I have stated, any piece of evidence: a piece of an arc, claims of people in the past, proof of Jesus existing - all of it is subject to the objection Charlie could have created it too.
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  389. *****  "2. How do you know any of your claims are true?" if you'd like me to reframe everything I've said so far with the qualifiers "IMO;" "taking for granted the world is as it appears to be and not an illusion," and so on, I will do that. There is very little that humans can be "absolutely certain" about. So when I say my confidence level rises to the level of "I know," that is intended the same way science "knows" something. Science says the earth revolves around the sun. Is that absolute knowledge? Practically speaking yes. In terms of every conceivable epistemological possibility, no, as a God (or Charlie) -induced virtual reality mock up cannot be ruled out. "3. You don't know is the correct response." The same applies to your argument for God. If I am wrong, kindly point to evidence that conclusively rules out a God-like entity rather than God himself . Imagine for example, an intelligence that is 99.9999% God-like. Then, why can't we imagine him (i.e. Charlie) leading us to believe we do have proof for God, even though we don't? That is, how could we be sure that this super intelligent entity really IS God, in the full biblical sense? 4. . . . "Your hypothetical charlie could not have created the Bible because that would take numerous miracles." I'm not terribly interested in a semantic argument. I am not talking about the logistics of making the Bible into a printable set of documents, or the process by which it occurred. I mean in your sense: "authoritative word of God." There has been no argument from you that the Bible could not be the "authoritative word of Charlie." "Many sceptics have changed there position when they see the accuracy of the prophecies contained in the Bible" You have provided no evidence that only God can accurately prophesize. "So your hypothetical Charlie is a cop out and a fallacious argument." You have yet to demonstrate this. You have not even come close to explaining why only God can do all these things and Charlie cannot. Not a single one. 5. "Science, history, and fulfilled prophecy make it much more reasonable to assume God" What I have been challenging is not "reasonable assumption" (thought that is certainly quite challengeable IMO) but the absolutist nature of your comments. Reasonable assumptions are a far cry from "proof." But you criticize others as if a scientific proof of God is already in. There is not an ounce (so far) of modesty when you insist these matters are absolutely fixed and beyond discussion. That is fanaticism, not rationality. 6."Good. Archaeological findings proves the Bible is true and has never proven any of it false" Even if it did, which is highly doubtful, it still doesn't prove the Bible is the authoritative word of God. That is the argument you have yet to disprove. 7. "However, the constellation of evidences and personal experiences of many great scholars, scientists, historians, theologians, logicians, doctors, lawyers, astronomers, physicists, etc. works synergistically for a strong case" Again, my argument is primarily concerned with the absolutist nature of your previous statements. It is backtracking to go from absolute proof to "strong case." I don't believe there's a strong case for God - at least a traditional Biblical one. But I have no problem with this. It is the fierce absolutism which you use to justify insulting others that I am questioning. 8. . . . "And again, the "Charlie could have created it too"  argument is fallacious and intellectually dishonest and you know it." You have not provided any demonstration yet of any kind that "Charlie couldn't have done it." To say it's intellectually dishonest is not only not true, but another example of your tendency to pounce on others with a self-righteous club. As I stated earlier, mature people do not feel a need to clobber people over the head with gratuitous assumptions. You have absolutely no way of knowing whether I think my argument is dishonest. Pure assumption. Totally gratuitous, and why most people, I think, reject fundamentalists views. The people that espouse them are all too often a huge turn off to most people of civility. I'm up for changing the tone of this discussion if you are. You are free to prove me wrong and completely destroy my arguments. So am I. But there's no need to do it with hostility, I think. cheers
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  390. ***** Well if you want me to be simple, I will. Show me the evidence that proves absolutely that the Bible is the word of a Biblical God. Direct me to some links; use a philosophical argument; etc.
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  391. ***** "These are really not difficult questions so you have no need to write a complicated book " Let's see here, your questions = 21 lines, my answers = 34. Your condescension is duly noted. One of your problems is that you are absolutely bad-spirited and condescending. It's one reason most of the world rejects fundamentalism. Its practitoners are often intolerant and unpleasant to be around. Keep it up sonny. It's not a model of maturity by any means. cheers
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  392. ***** Fair enough. However, I believe that if one gets off one's lazy ass, the bulk of evidence easily and effortlessly shows that the alleged science of the Bible hardly even approaches the threshold of scientific validity. You mentioned archeological evidence for example. Why don't you give me one piece of archeological evidence that stands the test of the scientific method proving the Bible is the word of God. Any choice piece of evidence by your standards, and I will give it my best and fullest attention.
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  393. ***** Could you kindly provide me with a specific example of what you would consider sound archeological evidence that either proves or strongly supports that the Bible is the "authoritative word of God"? I'm just curious what type of example you consider strong evidence. Evidence of an arc? Ancient wheels in the dead sea? Etc. Just pick any one that you find persuasive. I'd like to examine it just as an interesting exercise. Thank you.
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  394. ***** Prophecy: name two that couldn't have been foreseen by Charlie.
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  395. *****"BY the way....it's not an orientation you are born with. Science has proven that to be false." It has not proven that. None of the links I looked at by LBGT have offered anything remotely resembling a proof. Once again, I ask you for a link. I'm beginning to wonder if you are afraid of providing. Surely you can cough up at least one, that is if you are so sure. cheers
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  396. ***** if you don't want me to keep answering you, stop replying to me. Until then I have every right to comment. "People are not born with concepts already in them." A lot of BS. Gayness is more akin to a basic urge or emotion - these we do not always choose. For example, our very survival depends on most people being heterosexual. If it were left up to us to choose, our survival prospects would go down. This is the obvious reason heterosexuality is the norm - it is not in any meaningful sense "learned." It is hardwired into most of us, just as any other absolutely critical survival feature is. This is far more in accordance with common sense. If there is an inborn tendency for heterosexuality, there may well be one in homosexuals too. If you want this conversation to end, then don't reply. You are labeling my comments as harassment because you refuse to be a good sport and back up any of the claims by citing the definitive studies you say exist. You can't even link a single one? That says to the reader you have no backbone. cheers
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  397. ***** "Jesus and the spirit of God can heal you of your demon and get you back to being a normal human being. Stop rebelling against God. PS: Jesus said not to judge unrighteously and then he said to judge according to righteous judgment. How do we as Christians judge righteously? We judge according to the written word of God and the Spirit of Christ in us. YOU however judge according to your own secular humanist and moral relativist standards....and that is UNRIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT.  Man shall not live by food alone, but by every word that proceeds from God. We have God's logos(word) in written form....it's called the Bible. Use it and learn how to judge righteously, and stop being such a hateful bigot against anyone that stands on the word of God and warns you that the road you are on leads to eternal death."  Yawn
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  398. Paradigm of Hope Thanks.  Another example how ridiculous the gay choice thing is, is shown by heterosexuality. Do straight people choose to be straight? That's ridiculous on the face of it. The urge is not just a "concept," as john would have us believe, but a basic urge hardwired into most of us because it is a matter of sheer survival. The instinct for self-preservation, which includes the survival of our genes, cannot be built upon something as fragile as culture, or a casual choice. If this is true for heterosexuality, then whatever it is that drives a small % of people away from it, must also be as strong and robust and resistant to change as heterosexuality. Whether inborn or not, there is a consensus in the mental health community that once you are 8-10 years old, the orientation is fixed. cheers
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  399. samiam1150 "Change the definition and anything goes." I would say the real issue is the government. I agree w john that in this day and age especially, let people decide for themselves if they wish to call themselves "married". If we aren't going to bring the state into the issue, then don't do it for heterosexuals either. At least that's one perspective.
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  400. +Boat Axe That doesn't really follow logically. Whether the buses have seat belts or not, we are already making all of these childrens' safety decisions for them, including whether the buses should be equipped with shoulder harnesses, rear facing seats, or extra emergency exits. All of these things would no doubt make buses even safer. And they all have a cost. Should children have a right to every conceivable safety enhancement until they become free adults? The issue is really not about seat belts, or about children not being adults. It's about, what is the appropriate level of safety given the costs.
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  401. +stretch90 I tend to be atheist, but not because of stupidity. And there's no measure I know of that reliably measures how moral or immoral atheists are. I'd say compared to die hard fundies, at least they can distinguish pure fantasy from reality. While I haven't read the passages you refer to, I'd be willing to bet Harris does not support genocide by Israel. Show me some quotes and I'll comment. cheers
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  402. +Proffessor2000 Agreed, there's a double standard. Men are falling way behind academically. There are so many other ways feminists turn a blind eye to men. Witness the existence of the male underclass who does most of society's dirty work, and often get killed doing it. Feminists aren't generally interested in bringing this into the equality equation. As long as someone else does it so they don't have to be the ones going into sewers or carrying away toxic waste, and everyone's sh-t, and getting diseases while working on garbage trucks. (Of course, feminists aren't the only ones who turn a blind eye to this, we all are guilty to some extent.) Have you read Cathy Young? One of my favorite columnists: fair, balanced, civil, unlike many an angry feminist. I like her use of analogy: comparing what would happen if the same claims about men were applied to women. A recent example is the new term "manspreading," which became an issue recently by some women who started to complain of men taking up too much space on the subway by spreading their legs. Aside from this being another example of trivializing the real issues women face, she asks, could you imagine feminist uproar if men complained about women taking up too much space, and inventing some similar word with "woman" attached to it, and posting pictures on the internet of women taking up too much space on the subway? It would not be long until we would hear cries of sexism and mysogyny. It's a total double standard. That's perhaps the main thing that annoys me about many feminists today. cheers
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  403. cmyskinsfan  "The biggest issue that I'm having with all of these arguments is that you have made yourself the authority on all things natural and all things moral."   Bingo. Morality, natural, "unacceptable" are either subjective, or open to differing definitions. Whaat I am seeing in MT's posts are illogical connections between that which is natural and that which is moral. For example, "the penis not being made for the anus" is strictly a biological truth -- if that. It tells us nothing about whether the behavior is inherently wrong. If one's guiding principle in life is to only condemn behavior that harms others, anal sex can be harmless, depending on how it's practiced. MT is operating on a lower tier of logic, and failing to see the bigger picture. His idea of "principle" means HIS principles, not necessarily yours, mine, or everyone else's. cheers
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  404. Homophobic Atheist "Is that the best you can do?" No.  Denmark, Norway and Sweden saw a decrease in infections after same-sex partnership laws were enacted.  Google "There has been a significant reduction in the rate of HIV infection among men who have sex with men (MSM) in Denmark," excerpt in Google Books: Gay Marriage: for Better Or for Worse?: What We've Learned from the Evidence Nice try.
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  405. Homophobic Atheist "Homosexuality prompts homosexual behavior by default." Not denying there's a correlation. The solution is to crack down on unsafe sex practices. Outlawing gay marriage, or condemning homosexuality per say is not going to do a damn thing to stop the spread of AIDS. Gay men are going to continue to be gay men whether you like it or not, and some will continue their unsafe lifestyle regardless of all the anti-gay sentiments emanating from conservative Bible carrying organizations. Gayness is more or less fixed. It will probably always be about 1-5% of the population. Arguing against it will not cause it to go away. This is the overwhelming reality. Preaching anti-gayness is akin to telling kids to stop masturbating. 99% of boys will continue to do it no matter how many publications come out against it. This is called REALITY. cheers
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  406. +Snogger I agree with you in general, but as I wrote earlier I believe their is a gray area here. If you and your partner have been having sex for, say, the last half hour and she says stop, and he hesitates for say, 5-10 seconds, yes, technically that is rape. But would you consider that hesitation an act of extreme violence - which is what rape is defined as - requiring, say, 30 years in jail? That point is worth a discussion, I think (except for those consumed with self-righteous anger who apparently have as much trouble with the notion of civil replies as rapists have with their selfish lust.) cheers
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  407. +Levon McClam You don't understand what proof means. There is no proof on offer in this video, just one doctor's opinion. cheers
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  408. Johnny McAuliffe Excellent post.
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  409. mitch rawles  It is YOU who is profoundly confused: consuming a high-fat sugar-rich diet is FAR more dangerous to your health than homosexuality.  Proof: institute for health metrics estimated the number of Americans who died prematurely from overweight/obesity and lack of exercise was about 250,000 in 2005. Last year there were about 30,000 new HIV infections due to men having sex with men. Clearly, a bad diet is on the order of 10 times more dangerous than homosexuality. In reality homosexuality is infinitely safer if you are not a practicing male homosexual. So, you were talking about sin? What kills more Americans? McDonald's or homosexuals? Or does sin in your eyes mean not that which is more lethal but that which is more personally offensive? What do you think God's position would be? Go back to your Bible and pretend God cares more about whom we sleep with than about 100s of thousands of deaths due to our poisonous western diet.. Go for it. Give us your evidence. I just gave you everything you need to make an informed decision.
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  410. ***** "If being gay would have been ordained of God there would be no disease." What are you taking about? -God ordained human beings, but there's still disease -God ordained heterosexual sex, but heterosexuals still get STDs -God ordained eating, yet we still have food-borne illness "If you say u are born that way then you could not say a thief was not born that way it is just a misguided life or social up bringing has a lot to do with the direction we take in life." It depends on what causes a person to choose being a thief. Heterosexual and Homosexual attraction may well be inborn traits. It doesn't follow that all urges are inborn: some are, some are not. The evidence that homosexual attraction could be inborn has been increasing since the early 90s. One day science may be able to tell us for sure. For now, no one is in a position to disprove this possibility.
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  411. +Michael Is it within reason to suggest Roy may have been in control of his decision making throughout the final texts?
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  412. +Michael If he was in full control, then it follows she didn't force him to kill himself, and it would simply be a legal suicide. You cannot both be in full control AND be forced to do something against your will. In any other legitimate manslaughter case, your death would be beyond your control. At least that's how I see it.
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  413. +Michael If she didn't force him against his will, then there's no manslaughter. To me that's a commonsense understanding of the term.
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  414. +MrShaiya96 Well I don't know if I'm the only one. But that said, thank you. . BTW, when I click on "view all 74 replies," yours disappears. Has this happened to you or others?
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  415. Taylor Hunt  I'm still waiting to know why it is immoral for two men to love each other and have a sexual romantic relationship that is safe and monogamous. After all this posting, you haven't spelled it out yet. Perfectly reasonable question, I think. cheers
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  416. That's precisely why she's f-d up. She really does think she was raped. She thinks that because a friend persuaded her two months later that she was raped, she really was!! THAT's what's so scary here. You give her too much credit, IMO. cheers
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  417. +Myanameis Beestingz That said, I am in "Youtube mode" and making overly simplistic generalizations. Yes, there is "legit" date rape, as you point out. But when you read through some of these survivor blogs, it becomes apparent just how literally some of these women are redefining rape into basically non-force situations. They readily admit that there was no literal force , but are still assured they were raped by the rape-crisis brigade. This is all an offshoot of the more radical feminist element, the same force that brought us the alleged rape culture, all of which in turn is an offshoot of a more generalized socialist mindset that sees all relationships as potentially or actually a form of oppression if the participants are not exactly equal. Fortunately such people are in the minority. :)
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  418. +JamesHLanier Not if the reason for the gap has nothing to do with sexism or arbitrary discrimination. I see at least three different ideologies at work in such a rigid position. 1) That sexism explains all or most of the wage gap. You need to back this up with evidence. It's not self evident unless one uncritically accepts what one hears stated repeatedly over and over by feminists and the media, indeed by virtually everyone it seems. I've already started the ball rolling with my post above. If you want tho seriously debate this, I'm certainly open to that. 2) Statistical disparities are always the result of injustice. This is taken as given by many feminists and liberal/socialitsts. Yet statistical disparities have been the norm throughout history, even when no forces of oppression were present. Some examples include West Indian blacks, who earn about 30% more than African Americans. Or take the Jews. In many different countries, they are among the top income earners. The same has been true of the Chinese minority populations in southeast asian countries. The latter in particular cannot be explained by racism, as the local governments have often reacted by policies which favor the local populations. 3) The assumption that income is the definitive standard for injustice. To me, that's a sexist assumption. One reason men may earn more than women, has tho do with what they value: competition, hierarchy, power and money may be higher up on the list of priorities for many men than for women. For example, the very highest income brackets, often require long work weeks of 50-60 hours. For many men, these sacrifices are well worth the price as the benefit is higher social status. For many women, money, power, greed and social status are less important than having this thing called a life, more time to enjoy the results of their income with friends and families. Are women saying no to the highest paying jobs sexist? To say yes is to endorse hierarchy, power, money and greed as norms for society, and that women should follow suit and be just as greedy as men. I'm not buying it. cheers
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  419. +William A Hibbert If you can write in complete sentences, your latest post might be decipherable. Thanks
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  420. +Atomicpenguin -- "I think of it as a preference in a way." It's a complex subject. Many gays, including myself, never made any sort of decision to have gay attraction. The scientific consensus is that most gays cannot change or adapt. Then we have the biological evidence, the most impressive perhaps being the studies of the brains of gay men: MRIs of gay men's brains show they have several traits that mark them off from straight men; and which are more commonly found in straight female brains. The heritability factor is suggested in studies of identical twins. cheers
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  421. And weird.
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  422. +Frank I would probably agree with your assessment as a general rule. However, not every clinically depressed or suicidal person lacks the ability to maintain mental competence and have the rational ability to resist orders or suggestions. So that to me constitutes reasonable doubt.
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  423. mitch rawles The day you are saved will be the day you are able to free yourself from a lifetime of religious indoctrination, and finally grasping  the difference between religion (pure faith) and fact (based on evidence). Religion and belief in God are purely matters of faith, not fact. The proof lies in the obvious fact that no one has yet submitted a proof that God exists or the Bible is His word that passes scientific scrutiny. These are acts of faith only. Deprogramming yourself may be very difficult, but if you succeed the rewards will allow you to discover the real God - not the cruel ghastly one who believes in executing children for cursing, but you, with your thousands of years advantage over the ancients, to use your internal moral compass, your education and genuine good will as a human being, to form your own vision of what a benign Being might be like. Whether you agree with me or not, one thing is for sure. A real God would not wish death upon a child. Period. End of discussion. Case closed. cheers
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  424. Keksi "Homosexuality is work of demons and Satan," If GOD created the universe, why did he create demons?
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  425. Jeez, this man is exactly why people hate Trump. Look at that quote at :10. It's totally incoherent. It's gibberish. There's no logical connection with the 4 thugs who beat up this kid. What liberal has condoned what these thugs did? This is like, total insanity. If this is your typical Trump supporter, little wonder everyone hates him. He couldn't have done a better job conveying his and Donald's madness than his dumb-as-a-bag-of-rocks sign and his equally incoherent interview. If you're going to attack liberals (which I fully favor at times) god damn, let someone with an IQ at least above 45 do it. Not this brain-dead dolt of an ignoramus. I mean, god damn.
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  426. +Dawn Of The Revolution You aren't getting it. We don't choose our attractions. I'll put myself on the line. I'm a gay man. I never made a conscious choice to have gay attraction. I would love to have heterosexual attraction, but have been unable to for decades despite much effort. In short, you must make up your mind: either accept that thousands of gay people who say the same thing as me are being honest; or else you must call them all liars. If you choose the latter, you are out of touch with obvious reality. cheers
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  427. +KELLSONIC Well I guess you're right. 4 days and no further comment from Mr. Preacher. Troll seems more likely to me.
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  428. +Morgan Rath Not possible for most people. If this were true, there would be no such thing as heterosexuals and homosexuals, which alone suffices to prove your argument illogical. cheers
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  429. +Francis Fawkes Lots of smart people and lots of neurosurgeons disagree with Carson. So being intelligent doesn't mean you agree with Carson. The bottom line is this: no one chooses their sexual orientation. Anymore than we choose who we fall in love with. It's that simple. cheers
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  430. "when did you choose to be straight." omg retardation at its best Actually, it's a great question if you used your brain. Most straight people don't make a conscious choice to be straight. So why would gays be any different? Maybe they are, but you have to make your point. "OMG retardation" means nothing unless you explain yourself. cheers
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  431. +Vcafr0 -- You have no intellect whatsoever.
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  432. +jose rodriguez "it's called being raised correctly" That proves it's not a choice.
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  433. Cardinalsarelame "OK, so what about a consenting 60 year old and a consenting 12 year old then? Doesn't hurt anybody, right?" Well, but that get's to the heart of what consent IS. I am intending the meaning of consent to apply to adults, because it's widely thought that children are harmed even if they give a 12-year-old version of consent. So no, not OK in my book. The bottom line is really just common sense. Since it is possible for two gay men to practice sex without directly harming anyone, that in itself is a legitimate argument that there is nothing immoral about that particular act: If they each, for example, give each other a blow job, and agree to monogamy, THEN there is no direct harm to society. Could there be indirect harm? Sure. But the same could be said of promiscuous straight males, alcohol, McDonalds, TV, sky diving, and a hundred other things. cheers
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  434. Cardinalsarelame  Oh I didn't even know he was! But then I don't watch TV very much. As a classical piano lover I wouldn't want to be without Richter and Horowitz, and among conductors Leonard Bernstein (though he was bisexual.) And among composers, there was Tchaikovsky. cheers
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  435. Cardinalsarelame Do I do cheers a lot? I'm not British or anything, it's just my away of being friendly. :)
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  436. +Deven As an adult, I find myself changing my mind all the time based on input from others. Some other examples: whether to invest in a stock; choosing surgery as a treatment option; confronting someone you don't want to confront. As for fear, the same thing. A person may fear going on a plane, then be coaxed on the plane, then chicken out and walk off (one unlucky fearful flyer was talked back onto a plane which actually crashed!). These examples suffice for me to constitute reasonable doubt. I would have to be convinced that being depressed and suicidal proves beyond reasonable doubt that you don't have meaningful free will. If we aren't willing to make this generalization, then it seems to me the judge is playing God and assuming he knows for (reasonable) certain which depressed people have it and which don't. Too much grey for me = the verdict overstepped the legitimate boundary of the law. That said, I won't be crying for her when she's in jail.
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  437. +Andy I think she deserves punishment. But legally, or even just using common sense, I don't see this as fitting the definition of manslaughter without a proof that Roy had no control over the situation. That's where I feel there's reasonable doubt. Exactly what goes on inside the mind of a depressed suicidal person who's being texted these messages is impossible to know with any certainty. We hardly know anything about how the mind works; it's fantastically complex. So to me, it's playing God to say we know for sure she killed him.
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  438. +Andy I think we're on the same basic wave length. I feel she shouldn't get the max penalty, since it's so unlike most manslaughter cases, and she was under 18, and it's hard to know just how much of a danger she is to others except in the unusual circumstance of this case. I'll bet the judge will giver her not more than 5-10, if that.
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  439. gcmgome Well, that was one of the more brilliant posts I've read in these parts in a while. Bravissimo. Would you care to share a bit more about your  "intense doctrinantion"? I'm assuming it was religious in nature? I think it's extremely effective when someone has an inside intimacy with the indoctrination process, and shares that knowledge with others. I'd be fascinated to hear a bit more on how you were able to "deprogram" yourself. IF you'd feel comfortable, that is. cheers
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  440. ***** Because it's not the proper function of government to protect us from ourselves? There are also consequences that follow from outlawing bad things. In the case of drugs, for example, a strong case can be made that the war on drugs causes more human misery, especially to innocent third parties, than the drugs themselves. In the case of child porn, the issue is not whether it should be legal, but whether people should be penalized for merely viewing what is already public. To further the point, should one be prosecuted for watching reruns of ISIS beheadings, flight 175 hitting the WTC? My main motivation is not to encourage harmful behavior, but to give the benefit of any doubt to he whom you or others might wish to put behind bars. To not give such benefits may also be a harm in itself. That is the basis of our legal system, after all. I also think it should be the basis of our "moral system." cheers
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  441. +Willy Wheelbarrow OK, well maybe we're in agreement. Let's find out: I'm a gay man. I've always wanted to know what it would be like to have sexual attraction to women. Having tried for nearly 40 years, I have not succeeded. Does this conflict with your beliefs, or do you accept I am telling you the truth about me? cheers
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  442. +Neo A. Sorry, a biblical God does not exist. There's no evidence for it, and the ultimate proof lies in the definition. A biblical God is defined as a Perfect Being. It follows that perfect Beings do not create imperfect things. For example, the definition of a biblical God means God could not have created Satan. Yet you and other fundys would have us believe that this nice, benevolent and loving God would wish to create this evil Being. It's pure contradiction. All it takes is a little common sense to see how this is all a hopeless fantasy. I presume you have some common sense somewhere within you? There are many dozens of proofs a biblical God is an impossibility. But all you need is one. You are infected by the God virus, which precludes one from thinking outside the fundy box. Which is fine. But don't foist your beliefs on us as if they were factual. They are not. They are merely your beliefs. cheers
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  443. +Neo A. This is what I mean about common sense. Everything you wrote about Satan above is wrong. God allegedly knows everything past, present and future. So, he knew full well in advance that Satan would turn evil and lead a rebellion to overthrow him. What kind of bizarre God would then choose to create Satan? So, your narrative contradicts the fact that God is all knowing. God is also free to kill off Satan. If he cannot, then he wishes evil on mankind, or is not all powerful. If God is all knowing, he could have foreseen which people would commit evil and simply eliminate them from his original creation. If you don't see the mounting pile of contradictions that are generated by your comments, and the definition of God, then you are not using the common sense you were born with. cheers
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  444. +dannyclough19  "These men know they like other men. The point is to help them change" If they are happy, there is no need to help them change. More to the point, it's a false assumption that most gays can change. There's no compelling evidence to back it up. It is thus destructive and damaging to try and tell someone they aren't really who they are. cheers
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  445. +Physician Alpha Thank you for your reply. I appreciate yo are trying to make the Bible make sense, but you have still not really answered the more fundamental question about Satan. If God is omniscient, and KNEW Lucifer would rebel, WHY did he create him? Is the world a better place because of Satan? Thanks.
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  446. +jshannon2k8 Well, the evidence is not far from what Simona claims. It has become very clear that almost nobody has ever actually lost their homosexual tendencies as a result of attending reparative therapy sessions. The scandal ridden industry has even seen its own leaders recant and admit there is no such thing s an ex-gay. Of course there may be here and there, but the most definitive study on this concluded that not a single person has been documented to have changed from gay to straight unless they had bisexual attraction before they became adults. cheers.
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  447. +Physician Alpha I do appreciate your attempts to explain this, but I still see you are making so many unnecessary assumptions to get the argument to work. SO, instead of you trying to explain it again, why don't we try a different approach. I will create my own argument in a series of steps. Kindly tell me which step, if any, is unjustified. 1) God is a perfect being: omnipotent, omniscient, and filled with love and benevolence 2) God wished to make the universe a better place 3) So, his plan called for creating a species made in his image. 4) Being a perfect being, God decided on the following characteristics for his new creation: -they will have free will -they will use their free will to uphold moral values and not use it to harm others. For example, since God is omniscient, he will have foreseen which of these beings would turn against him, and ensure they will not be born. Or, they will be designed to have no motive for personal gain at the expense of others, and no violent tendencies. 5) Happy with the admirable nature , and lack of a dark side of his new creation, he has no need to create angels, or to create a hostile environment with misery and suffering. 6) Consequently, extreme suffering is not a characteristic of the universe. 7) In such a world, there would be no rebellious Lucifer, no earthquakes, no tsunamis, no war, no murder. So, that is my argument, which flows directly from the definition of a Perfect Being: omniscient, omnipotent, loving, moral, wise. Kindly tell me why God didn't go by this plan instead. Try not to add gratuitous assumptions such as "free will means we are free to disobey God" (already answered in step 4). Thanks.
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  448. +Physician Alpha Thank you for your reply. "(1) Is half correct. God (of the Bible) can not do [everything] He can not sin " Not sure why he couldn't. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say he would choose not to sin even though he could if he really wanted to?
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  449. +Luis F. Tenorio What is it that possesses people like yourself to believe in the most asinine theories about homosexuality? You are basically telling us that the countless number of gays we read about, who struggled for years to change but could not, are liars. You are going against virtually the entire mental health community. Show us what evidence you have that most gay people chose to be gay. No one chooses their deepest feelings. It's preposterous on the face of it. cheers
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  450. +mgeek1 Probably. But I'm interested in how he reacts to my particular points.
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  451. +Luis F. Tenorio I think I see the source of the problem. Of course anyone can freely chose with whom they have sex. That isn't an interesting observation. It's like saying, anyone can eat a slice of bread, or walk down the street, or whistle. There's absolutely nothing interesting in pointing out most humans have the capacity to have sex with virtually anyone. I mean, is that really interesting to you? Of course it isn't. Yet that is precisely your alleged punch line. Duhh !!! The real question is, do we choose our attractions? So I think the source of your problem is definitional. Homosexuality is not defined primarily as behavior, but as attraction. And attraction is not chosen. Therefore homosexuality is not chosen. Of course the behavior flowing from the attraction is chosen. But that is as profound as saying one chooses to eat when one is hungry. Sure, we choose to eat, but we do not choose hunger. THAT is the point that you aren't getting, I think. cheers
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  452. +Job Done Right But that wasn't the question. It's trivial to say anyone can choose to have butt sex, or choose to eat a doughnut or choose to murder or choose to pee. That's not what is under discussion in this debate. If it were that idiotically simple, there would BE no debate about being gay, because that kind of debate is trivial and tautological only. So let's try again. Forget about butt f--ing for a moment. I asked you "can you make yourself "feel attraction to dick?" Could you make yourself get an erection by looking at another guy's thing? That's the question. Rememeber, homosexuality is an orientation, not a behavior, as is proven by the fact that if a girl asks her straight boyfriend to service another man, and he does it to please her, he is still very much a straight man having sex with a guy.
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  453. +Job Done Right "no he is not straight he is gay then" No, that is wrong. Gay means an orientation, not an act. A straight man can have sex with another man. Happens in prison all the time. Doesn't mean he is gay. Absolutely incorrect. cheers
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  454. +Luis F. Tenorio You need to back your last post up with solid evidence, for which there is none. Even if it were true there are effective methods, it doesn't bear out the charge that I or other gays choose to be gay. By saying "there are methods," you imply that I did not choose to be gay but rather must seek help to find heterosexuality. If I need external help, then by definition I cannot choose it without such help. That destroys your argument it's a choice. cheers
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  455. +Luis F. Tenorio "i dont, you need to do your research" Sorry, I have done all my research. You haven't. When someone gives a link to a medical library with thousands of links on different subjects, it tells me you can't find a single study to support what you say. Otherwise you would have linked the specific study. Right? I'm not that stupid, and I don't fall for people like yourself who have no clue how to evaluate evidence. The closest we have to "evidence" that all gays can change is so-called reparative therapy, set up by numerous Christian ministries, which has been an abysmal failure by any objective measure. Further, this scandal-ridden industry has produced nothing remotely resembling a scientific study. The participants were self-selected. In-depth interviews indicate most consumers of this therapy merely changed their behavior, not their attractions. Claims of success are no more convincing than testimonials from an infomercial. Political agenda has not influenced me in the least. But it has influenced you. The proof is shown by the fact you haven't produce an iota of proof to support your beliefs. You have not a single study to back up what you say. If you do, please link it. cheers
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  456. +Luis F. Tenorio There is no such study. I already looked at Medline. If there were, you would have provided the link by now. Right? C'mon, let's be adults here. If you have a study you want me to look at, YOU provide it. That's your job when you claim to have evidence. I'm not here to be your research assistant. YOU provide the link if you want me to believe you. NOT ME. It's your burden of proof, NOT MINE. Otherwise you are employing a diversionary tactic whereby you pretend the studies are out there when they really aren't. Believe me, I know all the Youtube fake scholar games by heart. If I had a study I wanted you to be aware of, you would have had it by now. cheers
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  457. +mgeek1 The gay-is-a-choice people have some sort of mysterious mental block. You are correct. It is absolutely one of the most singularly stupid ideas to have infected the brain of the common man. Another analogy will suffice as well: Do people choose to like tomato juice? Of course not. You either like it or you don't. Do people choose their favorite color? Of course not. But by the bizarre and mysterious logic of the gay model of alleged choice, these people would have us believe that a person says to himself, "Gee, golly Whizzz, I think I will choose to like the color purple. PRESTO Now purple is my favorite color !!!!!!!! And tomorrow, I will decide to have magenta become my favorite color. And you know what? On Friday at 3:05pm I will decide to change again and make BLUE, yes BRIGHT BEAUTEEFUL BLUE, be my favorite color. Oh Gee golly whizz I can hardly wait. !!!!!!" YIPPY I LOVE BLUE, (but not until I decide to) !! ???? How profound of me, I am profoundly stupid, and PROUD OF IT." Yes, this is the stupidity we are dealing with, even for people like Dr. Carson, who should know better. Any ideas how people can be this dense?? One of life's greatest mysteries, don't you think? cheers
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  458. +mgeek1 And then we have our fake scholar, Mr. Tenorio who is confident I can fined a nonexistent study. WAKE UP Luis. There is no such study !!!! It's so exceedingly easy to spot Youtube frauds. cheers
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  459. +Pigeon After having conversed with Luis for weeks, I'm of the mind he is not a troll but completely true to his views. I think we are dealing with a genuinely "you don't get it" individual, whose personalized distortions of reality trump everybody and everything else. He says there are studies, but he refuse to link them. As to you and me and al the other thousdsands of similar testimonies, again, they re all wrong or too stupid to know their inner emotions, and he is right. Precisely the opposite of how science works. When you have this enormous body of testimonies, science does not summarily dismiss it, the way Luis does. welcome to this absurd discussion!!
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  460. +Pigeon  And by the way great post.
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  461. +Luis F. Tenorio "Would you undergo treatment to follow your male 22XY chromosomes design?" I would consider any therapy that would allow me to experience heterosexual attraction, sure. Provided the therapy passes the test of scientific and statistical protocol. In other words, don't give me anecdotes, don't give me people who have merely managed to deny their true orientation. Show me a study where the majority of non-bisexual gay patients were able to experience robust heterosexual attraction.
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  462. +Joshua Ricketts Once somebody's stuck on an idea they are loathe to get rid of it.
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  463. Sounds like you're very knowledgable about aircraft systems. I think the DC-10 fear was way overdone, even though at the time I was afraid of them. Even in the Paris crash, it could be argued that MD could not have guessed that Turkish Airlines would tamper with the safety systems. Had they not done so, there would have probably never been a cargo door crash. cheers
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  464. Role model for jailing the nonviolent? Another depraved poster.
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  465. Who is wrong? The man that created this video seems to be in complete agreement with you.
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  466.  @jakepadgett5569  OK, I believe you.
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  467. Well what would one expect from an agency that has a history of incompetence, as well as dismissing evidence that implicates Egyptair.
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  468. Sorry to say, but paper items surviving fiery high speed crashes is nothing new. What you forgot to mention is that the passport, being very light, made it through the building, thus avoiding the pulverization of the collapse. Or did you expect the black boxes would join the passport as it exited the building? Or even better, did you expect the entire airplane to pass through the building, leaving nothing inside?
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  469.  @LittleLoz  That's true. About 30% of heterosexual US men say they did that in the last year. The number is undoubtedly higher. Uganda cannot say that's only in the US. Most would never admit to it.
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  470. "you will have exactly that" Exactly what?
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  471.  @FemboyHasu  Well let's start with basics. The obvious reason for sex separation in sports is because as a whole, xy people are bigger and stronger than xx people. So giving xx people their own teams is allowing them to have a greater chance at winning, and thus seems more fair. So far so good?
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  472. For which there is little real evidence.
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  473. It's not a fact, but your opinion. Maybe lower order humans (those who love to hate) cannot even grasp the difference between facts and opinions. Especially a country like Uganda, filled with a sense of insecurity and misery.
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  474. No it wasn't.
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  475.  @SailorMoonFriends  Even if true it doesn't prove the US wanted 9/11 to happen.
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  476. And Elvis.
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  477.  @darrellusa8271  They did deserve jail time, and they all got jail time. IMO the ringleader, the one that threw the deadly rock, should still be in jail. It's screwed up that he's been freed on probation while 3 of the others remain locked up with no trial date in sight. That cannot be right.
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  478. Pardon me for being thick today, but where did they say he was a drug addict?
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  479. And it was the zoo's fault. If we can make commercial flight virtually 100% safe, then there's no excuse for a hazardous gorilla exhibit. If a small child managed to open an airplane door in flight, would we blame the mom or the airline?
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  480.  @Freefs1  She did not "leave her child unattended." She momentarily lost track of him. Have you ever lost track of your kid even once? Have you ever even had kids? How is she supposed to know the zoo was a safety hazard? This is why sensible people prevailed. The DA explained that's why no charges were filed against the mom. Have you ever read an NTSB accident report? They don't blame the victim. Their probable cause would have been a hazardous exhibit. Hands downs.
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  481.  @a.l.m.o.  But you are making an unrealistic assumption. You are assuming absolute parental perfection at all times and places. Have you ever been a parent? You are holding someone liable for being human.
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  482. Men have always been a stain on men. There are just too many bad ones out there.
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  483. I don't know if this was wise piloting. When the crew were finally ready for the plane's second take off from LGW, this was now the fourth flight leg in a row to experience warnings. A total of EIGHT warning messages had now been logged in a single day and no solid explanation of what happened, plus low level vibration, and one of the messages possibly involving the no. 2 engine. With this many warnings, and vibrations and thumping noises, wouldn't it have been more prudent to have the plane thoroughly inspected before this fourth flight got underway?
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  484. Tell us if you will what the CIA gained by having a 757 crash into the middle of nowhere. I think if people thought about the big picture first, they wouldn't start speculating about the absurd.
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  485. So how would you rank the factors here?
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  486. We need to think very critically here. His claim depends on accepting an entirely unproven assumption: that he actually heard the impact of the plane. How does he know this?
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  487. I sense that you don't know the definition of homosexual.
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  488.  @yuhin4694  I am, but tell me why that makes me disgusting.
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  489.  @yuhin4694  The consensus varies by country. The Pew Research polls are the gold standard of public attitudes. In the West, most people now say they accept homosexuality. And also in the West, the DSM and the majority of psychiatrists do not consider homosexuality a mental illness. This has been the case for decades. The last time the DSM defined homosexuality as a disorder was some 49 years ago. I don't know what mental health professionals feel in the rest of the world. But we should make clear that there's not a clear cut global consensus on the status of gay people.
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  490. No evidence.
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  491. Or that you are a bot.
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  492.  @jasonhickerson2235  "911 can be understood using physics that any 9th grader can learn if the child chooses to sign up for the classes." There we have it once again. The idea that the worldwide engineering community doesn't understand 9th grade physics is part of the same 4th grade fantasy script. You and fellow skeptics like to think you are endowed with the special gift of "9th grade physics." Translated into reality terms, the worldwide scientific community are for the most part blithering idiots who haven't studied physics beyond 9th grade. Do you not see how remarks like these are astoundingly stupid? Surely you cannot be that dense. Keep on changing your name and posting this absurd fantasy of idiot scientists. You do a better job than any shill at destroying the remaining remnants of the truth movement. This is not worth continuing, but if you want to keep proposing manifest absurdities, more power to you. I welcome the self-induced destruction of idiot ideas. I couldn't do a better job myself.
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  493.  @jasonhickerson2235  The rage you are expressing is , I surmise, because it must be embarrassing to have never thought just how monumentally stupid is the theory that the government would hang its plot on the violation of 9th grade level physics. Seriously, you never thought of this fatal flaw until I came along and mentioned it? Another sign you don't employ critical thinking. I am sorry if you feel insulted. Maybe you are a totally sensible person. But we all have our pet blind spots. This is THE mother blind spot of the entire truth movement. They cannot see the obvious here.
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  494.  @jasonhickerson2235  Oh it's way too late for that.. Richard Gage Steven Jones and David Ray Griffin have already cornered the market.
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  495.  @harveysmith100  It doesn't matter what their safety record is. Boeing also has a good safety record. Safety records don't prove anything. That's why we have accident investigation.
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  496. It's too bad about D'Souza. Once upon a time he did high quality research. The End of Racism and Illeberal Education have a worthy place on my book shelves. Since then it's been a long downhill descent. This latest installment epitomizes the intellectual depth of the DT crowd. The film has itself been put under a microscope, and found to be littered with fully documented gross errors and lies, such as for instance the claim dozens of mules showed up on ACLED's database. The outfit, which is private, denied the allegations. The fact you accept the film uncritically is more proof that the 45 mob are unable to think critically, do not understand the nature of evidence, and cannot be trusted to investigate honestly. You accept the claims, but the film doesn't show you the actual proof.
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  497.  @BlueSky-ej7xn  Bravo !!
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  498. Now wouldn't it have been fun to have had the Munsters pay a visit to the Addams family!
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  499. As Mentour Pilot said a while ago, probably not nearly enough time to turn the plane and wouldn't have made much difference.
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  500. Very troubling. Just curious, what did you claim, or is that now off limits to you on Youtube?
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  501.  @Risingofthephoenix  No, absolutely not. There wasn't enough evidence to convict him of forcible rape. Didn't you follow the trial?
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  502. I think they've given us a reasonable proof. Never before has it heated so suddenly. It's off the charts compared to any point in the past we have learned about. Every year we break the temp record. The ice is melting faster than we thought. It's unfolding even more quickly than even the doomiest of doomsayers have said. It's pure denialism. Even as the water level rises above his neck, Trump will still be in denial.
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  503. Except how not to build a skyscraper.
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  504.  @uncleanon6445  I would agree not 1st degree or malice murder. But there's no escaping the fact the Ms acted recklessly. So I would charge them with manslaughter.
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  505.  @Ashas.Garden  I agree with all but one point. Arbery was always trying to run away from these characters UNTIL he turned left and lunged at Travis, and likely grabbing his gun. Now, one could say he was justified as he was being attacked and had been assaulted by Travis seconds before. But even if that's true, malice murder DOES require us to know (beyond reasonable doubt) what Travis' state of mind was the instant he pulled the trigger. Had it been an instinctive life-preserving reflex, then in my book that would be justified, except for the fact tat as you say, these men created an outrageously reckless situation. Thus what would normally be self-defense becomes manslaughter. At least that's how I see it. I do not feel comfortable reading Travis' mind based on the limited scope of evidence, the way the judge did. And I haven't yet heard a rock solid defense that we could read his mind at the moment he shot. That IS required to charge him with malice murder. It's a huge deal whether someone should get 10-20 years versus life. That has to based on something rock solid, iMO.
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  506.  @Mike-nt9sx  Poor poor Mike. He knows he can't pass the test, so he changes the subject. Way to go Mike!
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  507.  @abdul-qaderhaimour8117  "Scepticism from 9-11 researchers Doubts about Roth's motivations have proliferated, especially in light of her aggressive approach to questions about her background. In interviews, Roth makes little or no mention of other 911 research or researchers, has quick to take offence at people's scepticism of her story, and regularly keen to promote her books.[4] She has attempted to make legal threats to people (including this website) in the 9-11 Truth movement. 2015 - January 2016 The Nautral News story of December 2015 Members of the 9/11 Truth movement who have publicly expressed doubts about her include: Apr 2015: Andrew Johnson[4] Sep 2015: James H. Fetzer, after she strongly criticised him for writing that she that "she did not have everything right".[5][6] Oct 2015: S, Johnson of Natural News who removed the Rebekah Roth Show and charged "Observing her behavior, we came to find that she's an expert in infiltration and provocateur-type operations, getting groups of people to turn on each other and causing chaos inside the truth movement." [7] Dec 2015: Kurt Haskell remarked upon the similarity between Rebekah Roth's voice and that of one "Monika Gainor" who made a video selling health products.[8][9][10][11] Jan 2016: James Perloff[9][12] 2017 After criticism in 2016 for using a corrupted transcription of the tape recording of Betty Ong, Rebekah Roth has continued to do so.[3] Withholding evidence Rebekah Roth regularly avoids particular questions in her interviews, directing listeners to buy her book if they wish to know more. One commentator remarked in 2017 about this habit of hers: " ----------------------- “I do have a problem with such persons as Rebekah Roth who claims to have real expert witnesses looking at real evidence, yet this real evidence is withheld, and we are directed to read her fictional account so that we can experience her emotional reactions when this supposed evidence was reviewed by these supposed experts. The events on 9/11 represented a crime scene, and the withholding of real evidence and the testimony of real witnesses is tantamount to perverting the course of justice. Why should we respect the anecdotal assertions of Rebekah Roth who, for example, claims that some Pentagon guy thinks she should testify before a Congressional Hearing, which may never come to pass in reality? Whatever documentation she has which backs up her theories should be put out in public view. It is outrageous when the public is told, “buy my book” and we are expected to distinguish between fiction and reality, based on what? Hearsay which may represent the stories of a fictitious witness?” Jacquelyn Weaver (2017-05-20) [13]
    2
  508. Not to mention Elvis.
    2
  509. Unfortunately such harmony is limited. The claims of religion often clash with those of science. Just look at evolution. The evolution accepted by most believers is one where God's hand determines its direction. But that is not evolution, just anther variant of intelligent design.
    2
  510. The reason is that train crashes are no where near as spectacular or headline grabbing. That is why the skies are so safe.
    2
  511.  @carrollsanders9376  But (many) truthers think it was impossible. Like ResidentOfTheAbyss. whom I was responding to.
    2
  512. And between all the straight men that do it to their female partners, about 30% or so in any given year.
    2
  513.  @TommyVercetti-z2u  Only if you leave out gay women. Nice try.
    2
  514.  @andrewd6236  The only problem is this is pure speculation. I would say common sense argues against it. Governments know that every additional alleged fake plane crash or demolition is another huge opportunity to be discovered. Why add an essentially needless extra crash? I think it's very clear that three collapsed skyscrapers, a Pentagon attack, and almost 3,000 deaths is if anything, already extreme overkill in justifying the alleged motives of the government. It just defies common sense. But the more important question is, what evidence is driving this? What fact invalidates that flight 93 was a real hijacking, as it seems all the evidence supports it? We are talking here a dozen witnesses to the last seconds, fdr readout published, ATC tapes tracking it there, the phone calls, and the county coroner who IDd the victims, and on down the list. How can one, as a truth seeks, simply dispense with all this evidence without an iota of proof? cheers
    2
  515.  @troycote4503  "maybe don't understand what I said. There's no plane parts on the ground, and no bodies period even from early video," If you want me to change gears and go into super detail mode, let's do it. First, I already cited two other plane crashes where there were no bodies. Another example is AA Eagle ATR crash in I think Roselawn, IL. Show me pics of any bodies. Show me pics of any bodies in the crash of USAir 427. Show me pictures of the bodies for Ethiopian flight 302. Are they also fake crashes too? I am not moving on to other issues unless you are honest, and acknowledge these facts. Thank you.
    2
  516.  @troycote4503  Flight 302: "The force of the impact meant no complete bodies were recovered; " For NW 710 and PSA 1771, I can guarantee you no bodies were found. The largest body fragments from PSA were feet.
    2
  517. But the real damage came later, with the arrival of the truth movement, it all its lying splendor.
    2
  518.  @MentourPilot  Isn't there something wrong with certifying a plane that can't safely climb with 3 quarters of its available power? The twin jets can do that with half their power. Confused.
    2
  519. It's a close 2nd to truth movement conspiracy videos.
    2
  520. Not only that, you'd be hard pressed to find a safer airline. Since 1960 they have had zero deaths counting only their scheduled operations. Maybe we shouldn't allow American, French, British, pilots to fly?
    2
  521. If fires smolder long enough, steel can indeed melt.
    2
  522. for the morally backward.
    2
  523.  @chudsoyjak  No disrespect, but your reply is effectively gibberish. It's meaningless.
    2
  524.  @chudsoyjak  Must be the alignment of the planets. I suppose by June 24 I will be at my densest. So don't reply to me at that time. :)
    2
  525. No evidence for that.
    2
  526. What kind of fabrication when he himself admitted to doing it? Did he want to go to jail? How would that make more sense?
    2
  527. A better way of putting it: "The minority of boys who do this need to..." rest same,
    2
  528. Not plausible. With even just those people, it would be odd if not a single one would admit the secret on their deathbed. And I assume in 54 years many of them have known of their impending death. Has there even been a single anonymous public claim of the alleged secret?
    2
  529. Your comment shows that racism and hatred are a two-way street. When you express a thought like this, you are stooping down to the level of any common bigot. Neither you nor I posses the power of mind reading. We need more love, not more hate. Thank you.
    2
  530. It might well for some. But since 99.9+ % of people do not remember their unbornhood, it's a hard sell.
    2
  531. Tremendous pressure to avoid a violent reaction from the race-based hysteria that has overcome the US recently. What prosecutor could possibly resist this pressure? I don't think she deserves this.
    2
  532. So when the media reported Pope John Paul II died the day before he actually died, was that a Dark Occultist Ritualistic poisoning?
    2
  533. He's especially handy when it comes to mowing down peaceful protesters, or torturing opposition leaders.
    2
  534.  @bellalugosisrightnipple3719  I believe it was rape because she wrote a book on it. But at the trial, could the jury determine this beyond a reasonable doubt?
    2
  535. That's just speculation.
    2
  536. It's also a myth you have to be brilliant to be a neurosurgeon.
    2
  537.  @St_Augustines_Cry8  Similar to what? There's no crash I know of that matches flight 370.
    2
  538. He attacked a man with a gun after he was illegally chased down for 5 minutes, guns displayed. How would you feel if you were followed by yelling, gun-toting, strangers? Might you feel just a bit afraid? Might you wonder, "who are these lunatics"? Seriously, get real.
    2
  539. And there's not a shred of evidence for a faked plane crash.
    2
  540.  @johnzarollin2749  Note how in my link the F-15 crash leaves the same color plume. Main difference F93 smoke plume is much bigger, as you would expect. Claim: jet fuel must always look black Status: refuted.
    2
  541. Don't expect it from anyone anytime soon. Especially the 911 Lie movement.
    2
  542. And why no mention of Elvis?
    2
  543. Or when you consider analogous cases, as when FOX news and others stated Pope John Paul died the day before he died.
    2
  544. My God doesn't allow 911s to happen.
    2
  545. The zoo got the gorilla killed. It was responsible in creating a fool-proof enclosure, which it failed to do. With 5-year-olds all over a zoo, it's pure negligence.
    2
  546. "Burning jet fuel CANNOT pulverize concrete into dust." But 10s of millions of pounds crushing downwards can and did. Thesis: the US government would have sat idly by and done nothing after 3 plane impacts and hundreds of deaths. Status: moronic
    2
  547. @@chrislauricella "If someone points a gun at you and try and grab it. You are an idiot." In theory, I agree. But when under stress, people have been known to act quite irrationally and when terrified even more so. Like the mother in Cheshire who got back in the car with the robbers. In addition Arbery's mother mentioned he had mental illness. Could that have also affected his judgement?
    2
  548. I think we are in agreement, but I would still say they needed big jails sentences (maybe not Bryon) because they did indeed create a totally unacceptable reckless endangerment. I would have given Travis 20 years, Greg 15, and Bryan 5 or less. But these sentences lack any sense of proportionality. They say Travis is guilty of "malace murder." What, we can read the mind of Travis the moment he pulled the trigger? I'd say it was more likely a reflex reaction to being suddenly charged. I don't pretend to be the mind reader that everyone else claims.
    2
  549.  @jwhome9319  At least they didn't get carried away with wanting her to serve the full 15 years. I haven't looked yet at the other networks. I hope they have wiser and less biased commentators.
    2
  550.  @SpiceItUp_5150  Well, everyone fancies themselves an armchair psychologist. To me, her tears could go either way. The overriding flaw, IMHO, with this whole trial, is it's fundamentally misguided. Negligence resulting in death should be a civil matter, as is usually the case with medical malpractice, for example, or as I like to point out, with commercial airline pilots. We in the US at least, don't jail pilots for fatal errors under stress. Only when we get to gross recklessness or criminal intent, should we bring in manslaughter or worse. Just my opinion. Do we have that level of recklessness here? Not if we go by the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. There's inherently speculation in saying she was too casual or not being as cautious as she might.
    2
  551. She should get a pass because due process demands it. It's a myth that only incompetent people can make a mistake, even a big one.
    2
  552. Yes, there are many humans already who no doubt think the voice speaking to them has passed the Turing test. Just as some people are convinced they have heard the word of God.
    2
  553.  @mooneyes2k478  "Oh, I "imagined" that, not hard since it happened. Now what?" Where did the psychotic side of the truth mvt get these utterly hysterical views from. Did 431 ever call up a physics professor after dreaming this stuff up? Did he forget about the weak points, the weld joints, holding the steel beams together? That's all that has to fail. You'd think these people must have studied something of the subject before making themselves. the laughing stock of the web. As I said above, the notion of paid shills is economic nonsense. The government has essentially free shills in the form of Dwingles & Co. Each time these people post, sensible people are driven away by the droves. Perhaps they are the paid shills?
    2
  554. It is. But on the other hand, this was a specifically tailored message to the pervert community. It should come as little surprise IMO.
    2
  555. Though not denying this, is it legitimate to ask if having a brain matters? I think it does, and since the brain doesn't start from the moment of conception, we have another layer of complexity in the debate. I cannot believe for even a second that the existence of the brain is 100% irrelevant to this discussion. The brain matters. Would you agree.
    2
  556.  @Gpacharlie  I'm not addressing the constitution here. I am asking in the broadest moral and philosophical terms, if one were to come up with a moral system, before we even begin to discuss science, biology, or a political system or a constitution, can we say without any doubt that having a brain is absolutely irrelevant to moral status or to having rights? Is there a book of ethics or morality that definitively answers this question? Can it be answered objectively, with absolute finality? I don't think there can be, but I definitely welcome any ideas that challenge my position.
    2
  557.  @Gpacharlie  The Bill of Rights does not provide a proof that embryos have the same moral status as you or me. If it does, please quote the proof. "They, the babies in the womb, have brains" Not from the very start. It takes a few weeks for the first brain cells to form. If you have a proof to the contrary, please correct me.
    2
  558.  @Gpacharlie  The brain does not form until a few weeks. Thus not all babies in the womb have a brain.
    2
  559.  @Gpacharlie  "Another perspective to take is the impact on the culture and society as a whole when an abortion occurs." That's always the larger question, sure. Just like the death penalty and its possible negative ramifications, for example. Or even plain old vanilla TV. TV made society much more violent.
    2
  560. Well she was suffering many symptoms. The whole story does seem odd. But he admitted to it. Why would he do that?
    2
  561. Well that's the first time I've heard of one of Africa's leading butchers having an uncontaminated mind. The frenzy of hatred of gays is one thing. People just love to hate. But it might pay to do some research before clicking the reply button.
    2
  562. Great book, may be the best air accident investigative book ever penned. It's so graciously written that despite their critical verdict it even expresses gratitude to McDonnell Douglas for allowing the authors to tour the facility. That is classy.
    2
  563. There's only one bigger liar than CNN, and that's Donald. Let us hope his claim to terminate the constitution is one of those lies.
    2
  564. You are correct, the passengers caused it to crash. Some light debris was in fact found in the town of New Baltimore, 8 miles away, carried there by air currents.
    2
  565. It's an ongoing problem and has nothing to do with the opinions of skeptics. I'm not a truther, and no matter what subject I post, there's a 25% or greater chance my posts will not stick. It's Youtube's algrithms, There's a whole thread on this, they say that pasting text will flag you. And who knows whatever criteria. The most disgraceful part is not telling you your post won't stick until a refresh, sometimes not until hours later. Youtube is especially a disgrace when you consider it's owned by Google.
    2
  566. And jurists without common sense.
    2
  567. It seems deadly serious to many countries: they'll put you in jail for it.
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  568. That's because controlled demolition relies on the same principle: gravity. In a CD it's gravity, not explosives, that account for the speed of the collapse. Ask any demolition expert of your choice.
    2
  569.  @Electronic424  Well for starters, the very absence of these things is itself evidence against controlled demolition. The mechanics of building collapses is very complex, from what I have read. I don't have the extensive background to follow all the physics, the way some pretend. But I've read enough that I don't find myself thinking any of this need be deeply mysterious. The NIST/general gravity model makes sense to me, at least in theory. Once the perimeter columns lose enough strength due to the heat, they might well eventually buckle. What do you see as problematic obstacles for the gravity collapse model?
    2
  570.  @sotirisbelsis  Lot's of natural things are disgusting. Like taking a shlt.
    2
  571. Another self-styled armchair psychologist. Any idiot can do that.
    2
  572. What a ridiculously silly video
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  573.  @stopcensorship7705  You're in every thread it seems. Get a life bro.
    2
  574.  @vinnieg6161  Well as Uganda's most notorious murderer, he's certainly experienced at killing and torturing his own citizens. And in 2009, a proposed death penalty for gays in Uganda was met with complete indifference by Musevini, who called gays "terrorists."
    2
  575. I had a rough updraft approaching LaGuardia on July 5. It was probably perfectly normal, but even that can be unnerving. I wasn't really afraid, but if you haven't experienced it ever, or in a while, it reminds one the potential violence of flight. Being in an E-170 might not have helped.
    2
  576. I sometimes made that mistake as there were 2 757s and 2 767s, easy to confuse one for the other, even though I had known this for years.
    2
  577. It's irrelevant. The Ms were in the wrong either way.
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  578. Hi there, If you're going to play I'm smarter than you, then you need to be better qualified. No engine was found 8 miles away. cheers
    2
  579. Nope. sorry, you're wrong.
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  580. Actually three. Elvis rode on the third one.
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  581. It wasn't spread over miles. Only light paper and insulation was found miles away, carried there by breezes aloft. And I can offer proof if necessary.
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  582. The people who have the same empathic shortcomings as him. They all think alike.
    2
  583. I agree, it's wrong to silence crazy theories. But the reason is PCism, not real false flags. You guys really ARE crazy, and people are rightly fed up.
    2
  584. Ooops, the media announced Pope John Paul II's death the day before he died. So we cannot trust the media - except when it supports your bias.
    2
  585. There's to my knowledge a single ra-pe allegation against Biden, and his accuser has generally been discredited as deceptive. "Wrye’s distressing experience with Reade wasn’t an isolated case. Over the past decade, Reade has left a trail of aggrieved acquaintances in California’s Central Coast region who say they remember two things about her — she spoke favorably about her time working for Biden, and she left them feeling duped."
    2
  586.  @JOHNNY-zx1lc  Not so at all. The plane was NOT fine when it got to Paris. It had a design flaw, which was the primary cause of the crash. Where have you been? Did you watch the video? In addition, Turkish Airlines, not the French were responsible for checking the peep hole on the door, not the baggage handler. I agree this could be considered a contributory factor. But to elevate it to the primary cause is completely at odds with the known causes of the accident. The primary causes were: design flaw; and secondarily, gross negligence by Turkish Airlines for performing unauthorized maintenance just a few weeks before the crash. It was this final factor that made the accident inevitable. If not at Paris, then eventually some where else.
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  587. Just change the wording to "biological women's team" and "biological men's team." Case closed.
    2
  588. Correct. But there's a strange bias that ground fatalities don't count, despite there always being included in most disaster listings. Wiki actually got it right in this case.
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  589. The point is, Lindell has been called out on his lies.
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  590.  @stopcensorship7705  Yup. That's what we call bisexuals. There are some exceptions too, but the vast majority of gays don't agree. Ask a basic question. If gay were a choice, then why the demand for gay reparative therapy? The movement has also been a colossal failure, the heads of these ministries recanting in later years by the droves. Follow up interviews show these people never changed their attraction.
    2
  591.  @sierravista9013  Oops, my bad. I thought you meant the military blew it up.
    2
  592.  @maryw.4247  I agree. The truth is 94 has mental illness and has successfully conned the manic fringe into believing claims pulled literally from thin air. Just as successful telemarketers sell junk to the gullible.
    2
  593. Yeah, I remember falling to earth and thinking I never even had a chance to use the slides. That was a bummer.
    2
  594.  @PowerToolsnPearls  Thank you. That reminds me to stay away from Twitter. Between them and Facebook, they are such a disorganized mess. But thank you for alerting me to these tweets.
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  595. I don't think we should be so harsh. The study of decision making under stress, or heuristics, reveals that it's often the most experienced people who make such mistakes. Because they can happen at a non-conscious level, we may not always recognize a stupid mistake while it's happening. Mistake-for-game hunting accidents, for example, seem to often fall into this category. No one is immune from basic error IMO. Not saying that applies here, but I would give her the benefit of the doubt. Due process warrants this, IMO.
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  596.  @saynotowoke.8492  Thank you for a very detailed reply. "if heuristics did play a part at all, any 'shortcut thinking' means she'd have automatically drawn from the left side of her belt to taser." Hmm, well that certainly could be true. I am inclined to think it's not always so logical. Suppose for example, an officer is used to standing to someone's left. If the taser is in her left pocket, then over and over, the taser will be "on the outside" so to speak, and shot gun "in the middle." But if on this occasion she is now standing on someone's right, the taser will be on the "in the middle" So the short cut error here could be relying too much on an automatic response where "in the middle " means taser, but is now actually shot gun. "She had several seconds." But under stress we tend to fixate on certain things and blot out others. There have a number of similar cases across the US over the years. I believe there's no absolute immunity for anyone for these kinds of mistakes. "93% reveal that it is not just more likely, but far more likely for the least experienced people who make mistakes." Maybe so. I have been influenced by reading this interesting article, a segment of which reads: "A golden rule in firearm safety is to identify your target beyond all doubt. Despite this message being constantly repeated, accidents are still occurring. Hunter education and awareness about high visibility clothing have reduced accident rates, but these statistics have since plateaued. Contrary to what most people think, the hunters committing these accidents are often experienced and considered to be safe and competent. Crucially, they often believe they have, 100%, correctly identified their target." So perhaps it works both ways? Don't worry, I love ramblers - when they are interesting as in your case. 🧠
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  597.  @saynotowoke.8492  Sorry for late reply. Very very fascinating post. I am not particularly the right person to comment on plea bargaining. But as far as BVWC, in my ignorance perhaps, I hadn't heard that acronym before, but it's absolutely spot on as far as I'm concerned. Even in the recent Arbery case, where the accused were very very guilty, I still felt there was a pressure, maybe unspoken, that there must be some sort of conviction no matter what the evidence showed. It's in the air over here. You can just feel it. One might almost say, would it be in Potter's interest to be found guilty and face a limited jail term - for her own protection! This is what it has come down to in my mind. I sense, and probably you too, that we (US) are only at the beginning of many years of unrest, at best. One great example where perhaps social media has been a disaster. When mixed with the likes of Trump, who would have guessed the outcome we see. The level of rage I feel at all the millions who believe the election was stolen on the absolute flimsiest standards of evidence is so high, I can now better understand why people are motivated to become soldiers!! But I have tried to become more relaxed lately, and not blame people for what they believe. Perhaps they can't help it. BTW is fox news popular in the UK? If i were ever in favor of censor ship, they would be first on my list. Just appalling. "Indeed that very notion has played a part in several court cases I've been actively involved in" Well that's quite a coincidence! What is your role in the legal system? Thank you again for your thoughts. Very much a pleasure.
    2
  598.  @saynotowoke.8492  Please, no worries! I welcome your continued thoughts. However I am kind of busy at the moment and so I might be slower in responding. "The Queen's Councel" Just looked that up. Wow. Tell me, as an avid aviation geek, is this 330 swank and roomy? Lots to chew on above. More to follow as schedule permits.
    2
  599. The reason they don't know it is because it wasn't.
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  600. Almost as bad a truther guilt.....if it existed.
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  601. Don't know if this has been addressed in the 96 video, but an additional factor in the crash can be traced to a system wide failure regarding the certification of the first generation widebody aircraft. A calculation to determine the needed floor strength was botched, giving a value far below what was really needed. Had it been done correctly, the DC-10 floors (and 747/Tristar) would not have been vulnerable. Also, it should be emphasized that the re-rigging of the locking pins was found to have been done just weeks before the crash, meaning that almost certainly it was Turkish Airlines and not McDonnell Douglas who made these changes. I say this only because it's a largely overlooked fact and implicates the airline far more than is generally recognized.
    2
  602.  @PaulJakma  Hi, I just posted a long answer, and as usual Youtube has rudely and without warning deleted it. There are two dark sides to Youtube: the tendency to bring out the worst in people; and the management's decision to treat its users like filth. So what I will do is attempt to post it again paragraph by paragraph until I can isolate the offending algorithm violation. Stay tuned.
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  603. It's undoubtedly because the real world is much too clever for us to figure out . What we don't understand we are likely to call stupid. Think back to when you have made an utterly ridiculous series of errors. It shows, I think, how our expectations and assumption of rationality are way out of tune with the real world.
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  604.  @NewPassportBro  I can cite two similar events. The first is Northwest flight 710, whose entire fuselage was found buried under the ground. And even more telling is Ethiopian flight 302, the 2nd of the two 737-Max crashes. If you look at the pre-excavation photos, you will note that the vast majority of the plane disappeared into the crater. There's even a picture of the CEO of the airline standing in the empty crater. The only real question is, will you conceded the validity of this evidence. Or, as Mick West might put it, will you now become an Ethiopian flight 302 truther?
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  605. I think Biden is far more questionable. But I agree in general.
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  606. The whole ego thing is pure documarketing.
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  607. As long as they aren't jailed, I'm fine with that.
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  608.  @marysheffield190  Yes, I agree. I'm just saying that, all other things equal, if someone is holding a shotgun, whether legitimately or not, and someone suddenly turns in your direction and tries to grab it, the average person would shoot instinctively. So would the police. So the answer, I think Travis did regret it, because he probably didn't plan on killing him, and felt he was made to shoot after his dangerous plan backfired badly. And that's only because, I speculate, he knew he potentially was in big trouble. Not because he cared one wit about Arbery, to be sure.
    2
  609.  @weytogoman  Did you watch the video?
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  610. To a degree, yes. The main problem for me is 1) The felony rule, which thumbs its nose at proportionality. 2) The lack of a robust proof Travis shot out of malice. Yes, there's a chance these men were not acting out of hate. But it's hard to believe when you read their racists texts and social media posts, or Greg yelling at Arbery to stop "or I'll blow your f-ing head off." And none of the three doing anything to try and save Arbery's life after he lay dying. Especially if you are a police officer. But I agree these men have been turned into symbols of the entire history of southern racism. It's as if they were on a par with Hitler.
    2
  611. This thread is about flight 93. See if you can control your instinct to spam at every opportunity.
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  612.  @rggcdufg9526  So have I. 😁
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  613. Well IMO it shouldn't. Someone must explain why NOT being a victim of abuse does not lead to bias. Maybe it causes more, for all we know.
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  614. "The family should keep better watch of their child. " Not always realistic. The emphasis should be on the zoo. It's child centered. It needs to be fool-proofed. Zero-fault tolerance is a concept that should apply to a business at least as much as to a mother who loses track of her child for a brief moment. Here's an airplane analogy: if a child is able to wiggle out of his seat and open an emergency exit, would you blame the mother or the airline/manufacturer?
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  615. Right on the money. He's so shockingly stupid, on this issue at least.
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  616.  @stopcensorship7705  You don't do logic obviously. There's no proof of life on other planets. Doesn't prove there isn't any. Did you ever get beyond the 8th grade education?
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  617. If you have proof, fine. There's no need to act like a juvenile and insult and call people pigs. I am open to a missile. No matter how confident you are of a position, you can do it with style. Your approach brings out the worst in others. Grow up, get your dark side under control, then there's a possibility of this thing called a normal conversation where bbth people act like adults. Otherwise, get lost. I said I was happy to see a link.
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  618. That's really under the heading of "speculation." The research in heuristics (fancy name for decision making under pressure) tends to confirm that when we employ such shortcut thinking, it's not a fool proof system. Even highly experienced people can make surprising mistakes. The reason is that these errors are often at an unconscious level, so they can't be detected as they happen. So I give her the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise we are simply playing god. Not a good idea given our principles of due process and proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Just my to cents
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  619.  @Westberg246  "("I'm going to prison!") is not only a confession but also BENEATH THE DIGNITY" Me personally: I wouldn't put too much into a spontaneous comment under extreme emotional shock, what, 2 seconds later? Give her a break. It's not necessarily a confession either. It could be just a statement of, here's what I am likely to face, whether fair or not. Again, just my two cents. I am not saying you are wrong.
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  620. There was an ACTUAL bomb.
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  621. I think you're missing an important ingredient in the equation.
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  622.  @TheTruthAllDay  Had the feeling this conversation would come to an end as soon as it was pointed out that without due process, you have no right to a trial, period. Maybe you would rather live in a dictatorship? (Please reply if I spoke too soon.)
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  623. Right on the money. I can understand a culture that abhors homosexuality. But it's pure hypocrisy to chide the West for not minding its own business, but then trying to tell people in their own country with whom they can sleep. A very basic violation of the Golden Rule. But a real and consistent approach to justice eludes many Ugandans. They too cannot seem to mind their own business.
    2
  624. Many other airline pilots said it could indeed be done. I know. I asked them myself when I was a limo driver at logan for many years. So don't pretend there's anything like consensus it was impossible. Most witnesses say they saw an AA jetliner. How did the government manage to convince them they saw a was a missile? Answer: they didn't. Read the book Firefight, which documents dozens of first responders giving their own names. cheers bro
    2
  625. That was hardly max either. With 10-across and higher density it could take 400.
    2
  626. If this were true you would be able to walk into any university physics department and and get instant verification of your theory. I challenge you to prove your nonsense. Like most truthers, lifting a finger other than to click on CT sites is anathema. You don't do real research. If what you say were really true, the alleged US government conspirators would not have chosen to "violate basic physics." Because the whole world would have known within about 15 minutes. If you want to be a 9/11 skeptic, fine. But for goodness sakes can't you do it with more intelligence than the stupidity with which you accuse the government?
    2
  627.  @derekgreene2304  "Aluminium aeroplanes don't disappear into 4 and 6 foot steel H beams surrounded with concrete" Only if you're up for the challenge, I challenge you to support that statement with good old fashioned physics.
    2
  628.  @derekgreene2304  Anyone who thinks no planes hit the towers has a serious problem with reality. I challenge you to provide a proof the planes could not have sliced through the towers. Go to a physics professor and get back to me. If you don't, your words carry no weight.
    2
  629. But then it took off again and crashed in PA.
    2
  630. No one cares what silly people think.
    2
  631. Not enough punishment for what: teenage sex? And unproven use of force? And total abuse of the stalking law. Total miscarriage of justice, much as Labrie is undoubtedly a rather sad example of a human being. This case ballooned into pure hatred rather than staying within rational bounds. Total hysteria.
    2
  632. As I've always said, men do most of the violence. But there's usually a female accomplice making excuses for him. These are the type of woman who went for Trump.
    2
  633. Wouldn't it be more sensible to not allow parallel operations for runway 26 when the possibility of extreme turbulence exists? Just seems more common sense to me.
    2
  634. They did, and the nose did indeed lift significantly.
    2
  635. " in 1973 homosexuality was removed from being a mental health disorder without any scientific evidence." But here' the problem with that. There was no scientific evidence to begin with.
    2
  636.  @frankie57  You have zero evidence it's BS. Th real BS is the idea that faking a plane crash in the middle of f--ing nowhere makes an iota of sense.
    2
  637. Not if the families don't want it.
    2
  638.  @bluecannibaleyes  Being born with a tendency to embrace homosexuality in later life could be considered a birth defect. But if so, it's a harmless one in the sense that it's not associated with any proven, inherent behavioral or mental disorder.
    2
  639. I heard you the first time.
    2
  640. "Do people not comprehend that consciousness is eternal in that it survives the physical body?" Well, why would you expect them too? Is it self-evident? Is there a definitive proof?
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  641.  @lailaselk8093  I've followed the new theories of consciousness only a bit. So if you have a recommended link, I will have a closer look. cheers
    2
  642. Sensible people prevailed here. They recognized the fact it's impossible to be a 100% perfect parent. That's precisely why the DA refused to press charges. Where's your common sense? The zoo was the negligent party. The exhibit was unsafe. Wake up to common sense.
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  643. The funny thing is, in the one interview he did w Buckley, it appears that Chomsky does seem to find Buckley's humor worth a few sincere chuckles. This was at a more modest phase of Chomsky's career.Today, acknowledging any virtue or value of his opponents seems absolutely taboo. There is no generosity, good will or civility it seems, witness his dreadfully atrocious sportsmanship in the Sam Harris e-mail exchange. Only Norman Finkelstein attempting to verbally dismember Dershowitz on video surpassed that performance. At the end of his book, Intellectuals, Paul Johnson cautioned humanity about public intellectuals, bemoaning a "heartless tyranny of ideas." That just about sums up the elder Chomsky.
    2
  644. Better than the BS from truthers.
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  645. Yes, and way too incompetent to have done 911 deliberately.
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  646. Don't take this the wrong way, but we did watch the video.
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  647. Just a slight correction: You mean thanks, my torturing, murderous thug dictator.
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  648. I'm posting as I watch this at 7:47. Why would the mother bring Corey back to his father right after she was so concerned about abuse?
    2
  649.  @stopcensorship7705  "common sense dictates that everyone comes from heterosexual parents" Which is not in contradiction with treating gays with basic civility. Two entirely different issues.
    2
  650.  @elfamosoabraham5880  I'll bet you were one of the crazed people who signed the petition.
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  651. ​ @xxalienxx9541  Actually you're the one who doesn't get it. In the real world, parents cannot be perfect. That's why the prosecutor and the primate expert Jane Goodall, did not blame the parents. You lack a sense of tolerance and real world wisdom. Some people have it, some don't.
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  652. @Mongol ForLife "you are mentally imbalanced." Perhaps I am. So let me ask you a balanced question. Do you think a zoo is safe if a child can come face to face with a gorilla in mere seconds? Is that a kids safe environment? A zoo is designed around kids after all. You tell me.
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  653. Elvis confirmed it.
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  654. The difference is we in the US don't advocate life in prison for people we don't like, the way this man does. The US is far behind other countries on many issues. But on this one, we are light years ahead. It's a basic difference in philosophy. We choose tolerance over hate.
    2
  655. Your cousin's death is very sad. But how does that prove flight 93 was shot down?
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  656. That's right. Bryan's sentence almost as much of an injustice as Arbery's murder.
    2
  657. The US had closed most of the bases after the cold war. But even if they hadn't, it was never standard protocol to instantly intercept hijacked planes before none 11. That is a fantasy invented out of whole cloth by the truth movement. There were 100s of hijacks to Cuba in the 1970s. Can you cite a single example of an intercept?
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  658.  @UnFpredik  samkhoury is asking about building 7. The airplane did not hit building 7. But if you are talking about towers 1 ans 2, the collapses did indeed start precisely where the planes hit. So your post makes no sense.
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  659. I don't know. You tell us. Proud of being Uganda's most celebrated mass murderer? Proud of sham elections? Proud of torture chambers?
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  660. The first 3 flights were no different than almost all the previous hijackings in history. Flight 93 passengers was the first time in history they knew their plane was going to be used for mass murder on the ground. Thus the context before and after flight 77 are completely different.
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  661. I think justice was served, but swung a bit too far. The felony-murder rule makes a joke of the principle that punishment should be based on the crime committed. The life sentence of Bryan should be an obvious example to anyone not swept away by the rage of the moment. The trail also failed at due process as well, as I see it, because the charge of "malice murder" was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
    2
  662.  @jayanimations494  I thought he was charged with murder
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  663. Good for you. The whole world waits with bated breath for your next award winning opinion.
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  664. Maybe if you just worry about more important things than what goes on in the bedroom. The planet is slowly dying, and it has nothing to do with gays.
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  665. Trump? The biggest liar in the history of Western politics?
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  666. They already did. Didn't you follow the first trial?
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  667. Well that applies no less to the woman. The real take away from all this is the extraordinarily unjust treatment of accused men at colleges. It should be an outrage to every thinking and feeling person. Unfortunately, here, as in so many other issues, the antidote to past injustices and norms has become every bit as mean spirited, depraved and exclusionary as the disease it is treating. One set of dogmas is being replaced by another.
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  668. Brutal is well chosen. Uganda's leading butcher, mowing down protesters by the dozen, in love with torture, fraud elections. Tin potism at its very finest.
    2
  669.  @BasedE-i2m  But let's be real. Gays don't actually eat poo, whereas Africans do really eat dirt.
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  670. She was not trying to help him. She was copying a TV series from Netflix? I believe, where a girl does the exact same thing. Yes, she may have been mentally ill herself, but it was all designed for her own narcissistic needs, just as in the TV show.
    2
  671.  @bob195532  I've always felt that abortion is an intractable issue. So I readily concede there is always room for debate on each side. My pro-choice stance ultimately stems from intuition than litigating the specifics. I tend to go by the Golden Rule. Would I have minded had my parents aborted me? I don't see how I could have as an embryo. Therefore I reason that I am not being hypocritical by being pro-choice. BUT, you can also construct a pro-life argument using the Golden rule too, since by claiming you had a right to life from the moment of conception, you are also offering the same respect for other other unborn life. So that hardly solves the problem definitively. Thank you for your reply.
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  672.  @bob195532  Thank you. But why are posting the whole long post again?
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  673. Sorry, you are mistaken. "Check any plane crash in history." I did, but you didn't. Ethiopian flight 302 was buried even more completely. And please don't come back with post-excavation photos of that crash. You have further failed to explain why a shoot down would result in no wreckage. That makes no sense.
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  674.  @Draper11  I'll try, but I don't know if the link will work. If there is no next post with a link, then it didn't work.
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  675.  @fartboy700  Indeed. This is kind of like an animal rights activist loving Hitler for going vegetarian.
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  676. So you ignore that planetary temperature rise each year? Can you refute that by refuting a walk around a rock?
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  677. You have answered your own question. There is no reason to fake a crash in the middle of nowhere. If you dig deeply, there is mounds of evidence. Discussion welcome.
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  678. Did you know that the reason for these floor collapses actually traces back to bad math? When the industry first made its calculations for wide body floor strength, they did not take into account something known as "size effect." "If an airplane's size is doubled, the inside air volume is not doubled but cubed, resulting in eight times as much air pressure." But the regulations did not take this into account during the design certification of the first generation of widebodied airplanes.
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  679. Reality has outsmarted you. Hence you are on Youtube rather than on a science forum.
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  680. Even if they saw it with their own eyes, those with twoofer vision will still insist they saw a hologram.
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  681. Yes, I'm with you. There are many rational reasons for questioning any religious text. There are many excellent books on the subject too. Each time I read a new one I feel it's the best book on the subject, including the latest one ,"God: The Failed Hypothesis" By Victor Stenger. Certainly should make any believer think long and hard.
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  682. I think you miss the bigger picture. A zoo is a child-oriented place. No parent is perfect. Have you ever been a parent? So, even if you are right, the zoo has a much greater responsibility to make the Gorilla exhibit child-proof. If I ran that zoo, I would never have allowed this to happen, period.
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  683. While I'm not a big fan of the rape culture theme, this part I do agree with. It's one thing to say women are unwise to engage in certain behaviors. But accountability implies they should share some of the blame with their rapists. If this were really true, then the rape victim should also share some of the jail sentence. But I'm sure that's not what you had in mind. I'm not saying this is what you meant, but some people do seem to mean this when they talk about women taking responsibility.
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  684. While I think the verdict was wrong, it should have zero bearing on Wright's criminal status. Potter should be judged only by her decisions, not a past crime she didn't know about.
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  685. All that's missing is the proof.
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  686.  @Reporter360Grad  Yes there is a picture, the engine (obviously shorn of outer parts) came to rest at the corner of Murray and Church streets. So are you asking, as many people do, how is it possible all of the planes were able to penetrate through steel; and therefore physics dictates at least some of the aircraft structure ought to have fallen to the ground rather than than penetrate through the building? That's a good question, and I've looked into it myself. Part of the answer is that the steel beams themselves need not have been broken, as the physics involved is not just determined by the fact aluminum is much weaker than steel. The physics is over my head to an extent, but it's complicated, and depends on the speed. For example there's a wonderful video showing a ping pong ball making a clean hole through a ping pong paddle even though the wood is obviously much denser. It was propelled at very high speed. In fact, water itself can cut through steel, and there's a video showing that too. At the very least it shows you cannot prove "aluminum cannot cut through steel" all. by itself without factoring in factor in the speed, the density and the strength of the materiasl. Further, the steel beams were held together by much weaker joists, which again would refute the claim aluminum had to literally cut through steel for all of the structure to penetrate the facade.
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  687. Turkish airlines settled because of the evidence indicating it had most likely (almost certainly IMO) tampered with the safety mechanisms of the door. This is probably why the plane did not crash until just a few months before these unauthorized adjustments were made (sometime between the end of 1973 and March 1974). That makes it very unlikely that anyone at Douglas could have made the changes. Since all parties settled, that evidence is only really spelled out in detail in the 2 books: The Last Nine Minutes; and Destination Disaster. They are both great books, especially the latter. This is one of those facts that got lost in the shuffle, and Mentour Pilot, while briefly touching on it (18:10), only does so in passing and doesn't implicate the airline. But the fact is, TK maintenance re-adjusted the locking pins to an extremely dangerous setting. They also extinguished cockpit warnings. Mentour Pilot is also slightly off on the amount of pressure to close the door. Once TK had made the adjustment, It took just 13 lbs of pressure to close the door that day. Thus almost no force was needed to close it. From that moment, it was just a question of time before TC-JAV crashed.
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  688. No, arrogance was not the primary cause. You are a victim of docu-soap marketing.
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  689.  @joshgonzales1599  Thank you for replying. "now who are we to say their justice system is incorrect." By the same token, who are we to say the bible's system is correct? Perhaps it isn't. "Like wise God has His own justice" Perhaps. But humankind is said to be made in God's image. By implication basic human decency is supposed to be concordant with God's decency. How else could it have any basic appeal to us? For example, supposing God willed us all to inflict on ourselves an agonizing death, with no escape-from-hell clause. Would you still be a believer? "If we study the word of God instead of just picking and choosing" That is as logical as saying we only "pick and choose" Hitler's bad side, the holocaust, rather than focusing on the entire context of the man, for example his economic gains, his watercolors, and his love for his children. It's the same as saying we should not judge a murderer just by cherry picking his dead victims. We should consider his kind side, the love for his parents, and his charity work. I think attempts to twist scripture's most barbaric examples into something loving and good have never worked, at least by my reckoning. For example, there would be no reason to buy a ticket or whatever they did back then, for the arc, had there been no flood to begin with. The flood was God's doing. It was nothing less than mass murder. A being of true Perfection and wisdom has no room for floods, rape, slavery and hatred. I can think of infinitely more inspiring words than those in Leviticus. To kill a cursing child? In what possible context does this indicate to you a Being of complete and total perfection? A perfect Being, by definition, should not have ANY ugly sides from which to cherry pick. Otherwise He is not perfect. Is he?
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  690.  @joshgonzales1599  All I ask or hope for in these discussions is some sense of humility, and you have been a very good sport. I do not pretend to know anything for sure despite my sounding maybe like a know-it-all. You are very respectful too, these issues will always be subject to controversy, even among biblical scholars. Thank you for sharing your thoughts !
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  691. That analysis falls flat on its face upon deeper analysis.
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  692.  @ijumpjudyy  Or millions of heterosexual groomers. Perhaps you are one of them?
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  693.  StopCensorship4--1  "Stay away from kids. Impossible to do that as long as you and your kid brother are here.
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  694. If one applies critical thinking as much to the truth movement itself as to the government, their theories fall apart at every level, except for the few sensible claims that everyone already agrees with anyway. The most absurd of the truth mvt's absurdities is the 10-year-old level theory that the government would make fake physics the centerpiece of their alleged plot. It's so preposterous that one has to seriously question the sanity of people who reason at this level. Flight 93 is another 10-year-old theory: that despite 3 collapsed buildings and thousands of deaths, the war on Terror depended on a few heroes. Where is the connection here? Why do heroes make a difference? Does any serious person think that without a feel-good uplifting drama, America would be against retaliation? One could go on and on with the sheer juvenility of truth theories. No offense intended.
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  695.  @emperorzurg7258  Yes, he must have forgot to put that part in.
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  696. OK, so do you have a more convincing narrative?
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  697. You are not an authority on the physics of building collapses, so don't pretend to be one. Thanks.
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  698.  @christiantabeling1184  I agree with you. Elvis stole all the wreckage.
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  699. While not saying everyone, there is a concerted tendency in heated debate topics to try and elevate oneself, and caricature one's opponent. This is glaringly obvious in the case of the "you are pro-abortion" line. Just like, calm the f down. No one is going to win an argument by calling pro-choice pro-abortion.
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  700. I would doubt that, given how undramatic it is.
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  701. Yes, it's a straight fact that people love to hate.
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  702.  @kevinfernandez9999  Just asking. I'm glad we agree on that.
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  703. Some valid points. Two things though: the attacks on gays are coming from Musevini and his government. He recently signed into law life in prison and the death penalty for gays. By any standard that's effectively murder, and a gross violation of the Golden Rule. 2nd, what does it say about Ugandan society that they cannot mind THEIR own business? Is ultra conformity a good in itself? Or is it ultimately a flaw that causes more harm than good? Yes, we in the West are hardly one to talk about virtue. These are just my personal thoughts. cheers
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  704. Lots of people study 911 and don't find overwhelming evidence. Speak for yourself. Instead, some of them find the evidence refuting so many of the claims made by skeptics. Take controlled demolition. Step back for a moment and ask a more basic question: for what purpose? By 9:37 that morning, America was already deeply united in their belief we were at war with terrorists. Go back and read the words of air traffic controllers and pilots between 9am and 945. They felt they were fighting an unprecedented war. And they were. I recently read two riveting books publishing these incredible conversations.
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  705.  @thomwessels2281  Fact is, every lawyer/ prosecutor I have seen so far in Georgia has said this goes beyond bounds for a citizen's arrest. The information is changing rapidly, but as of last night Gregory M was quoted as saying he recognized him from past incidents, and did not witness a current burglary, a requirement for citizen's arrest. Tell me if that info has been updated, and I'll change my view accordingly. 2nd, if you point a gun at someone, or have it displayed, you are using bad judgement and inviting an unsafe outcome for everyone. And if it's pointed at you, that's assault with a deadly weapon. I agree we don't know for a fact it was pointing at Arbery. I agree with you this might not be murder. But absolutely manslaughter for initiating an illegal and unsafe chase.
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  706.  @soccershoes3231  Why don't you reply to the serious posts.
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  707. Yeah, all it takes is one adventurous 5 year old showing off to a friend.
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  708. That makes you as ignorant as the school.
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  709. Why should any genocide be 100% successful? Why should any human activity? Very few endeavors are perfectly carried, good or bad.
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  710. ​ Apollox44 Pollo  No, you didn't read the study carefully at all. Here's a direct copy and paste: "On the other hand, a minority of SA men did report retrospectively recalled negative reactions, negative current re- flections, and negative self-perceived effects; moreover, un- wanted CSA was associated with adjustment problems. "
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  711.  Apollox44 Pollo  BTW I think the theories of utilitarianism have a basic and obvious flaw. It gets half of the equation right and the other half wrong. Happiness is only half the picture. The lack of misery is the other, which utilitarianism crudely misses. So in some of the examples you gave above, increased happiness comes at the price of increased misery for a minority. Whereas not enhancing the happiness of the majority (say, banning slavery) doesn't produce anywhere near the same degree of misery in the majority. They just have less enhanced happiness. So utilitarianism would get itself closer to the truth if it acknowledged that misery is more than just a lack of happiness. Perhaps the misery of cruelly burning a person alive outweighs the slightly incremental increased happiness of a million people.
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  712. ​ Apollox44 Pollo  "There is quite a clear consensus on the difference between the definition of morality and ethics. Morality is personal, ethics is societal. Google it." OMG I did actually Google this, for example from wiki "Ethics or moral philosophy is a branch of philosophy that involves systematizing, defending, and recommending concepts of right and wrong conduct.[1] The field of ethics, along with aesthetics, concerns matters of value, and thus comprises the branch of philosophy called axiology.[2] Ethics seeks to resolve questions of human morality by defining concepts such as good and evil, right and wrong, virtue and vice, justice and crime. As a field of intellectual inquiry, moral philosophy also is related to the fields of moral psychology, descriptive ethics, and value theory." There's no hard and fast distinction here.   Or this definition "the branch of knowledge that deals with moral principles."  Hardly much help here either.     And here's dictionary.com    (used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture. (used with a plural verb) the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of humanactions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics. (used with a plural verb) moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence. (used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct,with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.
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  713.  Apollox44 Pollo  "In science, the onus of proof is on the one making the claim" Absolutely, and you made the claim morality is not in our hardwiring. You have the onus of providing that scientific proof. By contrast, I gave my belief that we may well have some moral hardwiring, but we as of yet lack a robust proof. So it you want to be sceicne based, you should take the more neutral and open-minded position I have taken: it's up for grabs.
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  714.  Apollox44 Pollo  Curious what you think of the below quote from Dallam, if this paste works that is: edit: obviously did to work. OK I will have to try that again some other way.
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  715.  @palestinevideos2025  If as you claim morality is subjective, then by definition the majority's morality is subjective. Majorities do not equal objectivity in any way shape of form. That's a mistaken concept.
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  716.  Apollox44 Pollo  "Mortality has already been falsified, humans die." Huh? Mortality has been verified, not falsified. Do you know what falsifiability means?
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  717.  @palestinevideos2025  I think Tom is right. You are a troll after all, though I'm not angry or anything. Someone of your intelligence could not possibly be this dense.
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  718. ​ @palestinevideos2025  And it's not an insult. There are a lot of nice trolls out there.
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  719.  Apollox44 Pollo  I'd also be curious what you think of this NOVA article. Google: "If a theory doesn’t make a testable prediction, it isn’t science. It’s a basic axiom of the scientific method, dubbed “falsifiability” by the 20th century philosopher of science Karl Popper. . . . . Now, some physicists and philosophers think it is time to reconsider the notion of falsifiability. Could a theory that provides an elegant and accurate account of the world around us—even if its predictions can’t be tested by today’s experiments, or tomorrow’s—still “count” as science?. . . . Case in point: String theory. . . . It’s a lovely idea. Lovelier yet, string theory could unify general relativity with quantum mechanics, solving what is perhaps the most stubborn problem in fundamental physics. The trouble? To put string theory to the test, we may need experiments that operate at energies far higher than any modern collider. It’s possible that experimental tests of the predictions of string theory will  never be within our reach."
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  720. @Renzo Alarcón No, but presumably human beings are more important than cows.
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  721.    I agree the US should not be policing the world. But I think basic appeals to end inhumane treatment is within bounds. It's just having a dialogue. Now it's interesting when people say, we should let other countries be. Well, what is the difference between that and letting homosexuals be? How are gays depriving you or anyone else of the basics of a good life? In appeals to morals and ethics, a good question to ask is, do gays in Uganda inflict anywhere near the harm on others as life in prison inflicts on gays? This is the part I don't understand. The punishment doesn't fit the crime. And that's irrespective of the principle that a country should not be policing the world. Basic ethics out to say to everyone: mind your own business. And that includes sticking your nose in the sex lives of others. That's the part, I contend, that is a morally more enlightened position. Mind your own life. Don't fixate on who sleeps with whom. In a world filled with violence poverty and oppression, why waste your time policing the bedroom? If there really were a God, He has more noble things to do with his time.
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  722.  @Danobeiszadeh  It just shows again the inherent intolerance of most religions.
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  723.  @armaan1091  That's an enlightened point of view. Adults mind their own business. Little minds, by contrast, are obsessed with controlling others.
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  724. FREEUNDERRATEDMUSIC Well everyone should always be openminded. But in this topic I feel that the primary mover in the anti-gay posts is a desire to have control over others. Whether you agree with the Ugandan president or not, why can't people mind their own business? If  posters on here want westerners to stop pushing for gay rights in Africa, that's no worse certainly,  than Africans trying to control gays. What's the difference in principle? Westerners are reacting to Africans NOT minding their own business. Putting a gay man in jail for having  a gay relationship is having power over others - it's not minding your own business. It's African societies that initiate taking control of others. That makes it the initiator of oppression/violence. That's how I see it, and yes I could be wrong of course. But I haven't seen anyone really refute that in a convincing way, except to say, they have a right to oppress gays. There's no principle at work there.
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  725.  @njgrant3988  And who was the most instrumental in ending slavery within Africa? White people, notably the British.
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  726.  @254react  I agree the US has no business trying to police the world. When I give my views on gays, I am just giving my opinion, not trying to talk from a position of superiority in general, or shove it down any country's throat. As I said, we are the laughing stock of the world right now. We have a lying, narcissistic, fraudulent president, sexual predator that belongs behind bars. Will be watching him debate Biden in a few minutes.
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  727. Respect for mass murder, torture, sham elections? Go for it. They all go together.
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  728. He didn't run up to a man, he was jogging and saw a man pointing a gun at him. That's assault right there. Arbery had every right to shoot him dead.
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  729. Also, the 911 Truth Movement needs to be investigated: a lie unto itself.
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  730. This guy is not being very careful and precise. I've research this crash to death. The ONLY debris that got 8 miles a way was a piece of paper or two, and maybe some liner fabric or insulation. That's it.
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  731.  @suspectdown5133  What am I doing that you are not?
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  732.  @suspectdown5133  OK, so it's obvious you're gaslighting, to use that dreadful expression. You are trying to convince me your posts flow logically from what I write, but they never did even once. Have fun trolling others, or get a real occupation.
    2
  733.  @JegameJegame  I think you're missing a basic moral compass on some level. I'm referring to the principle of proportional punishment The sentence of life in prison is grotesquely out of proportion to the crime committed. It violates the Golden Rule in spades. This is almost a universal moral directive. Treating gay acts as murderous is an example of man's inhumanity to man, even if some gays behave irresponsibly, which I grant many do.
    2
  734.  @jegamespeed5399  I said life in prison, not the death penalty. Grossly disproportional punishment should be an outrage to everyone, even if you despise homosexuality.
    2
  735. That's pure fantasy, driven by the unshakeable conviction that you and so many other skeptics are the truly gifted ones, who can unmask the truth through their unique powers of revelation. And the rest of us, lay and expert alike, are a bunch of blithering id-ots. Did I get that right?
    2
  736. You are speaking to a vacuum. People have always confused belief for truth. And the worst ones are right here at Youtube.
    2
  737. What a strange criticism. Most people don't expect that only recent events are worth analyzing. Or if they do, no one else says so.
    2
  738. I often feel that as well. But remember, there have always been kind and decent men. If that weren't the case, women would want to have nothing to do with them.
    2
  739. Yes. About as funny as the Youtube video of a ping pong ball slicing neatly through a ping pong paddle. Or the Youtube video of water cutting through aluminum. More to the point, the steel didn't have to be cut. Would you like to ask this question to a physics professor? And do you think the government chooses false physics because they know the worldwide scientific community would unravel the alleged plot in two seconds flat? Does anyone at 9/11 truth, Inc. ever ask such questions? Do they ever do anything but copy and paste from each other?
    2
  740. Because they didn't.
    2
  741. Respect for Tin Pot dictators from Africans doesn't surprise.
    2
  742.  @millville444  The behavior may be a choice, but the attraction is not. Do you have gay attraction? Then by definition you can't choose it.
    2
  743. I am also opposed to the death penalty in practice. It has been said endless studies confirm it's not a deterrent. But do we have a study based on a society where the death penalty was robust and widespread, and not just intermittently here and there? I also think "not a deterrent " is a bit of a misnomer, as it is obvious the death penalty would deter compared with, say, a $10 fine.
    2
  744. "of course none of the men reported the ex-husband to the police! " Your;e right: but then, we shouldn't expect people who participate in these chat groups to turn their fellow perverts in.
    2
  745.  @SNPL.  Misses the point.
    2
  746.  @jakegodman  But it's the nature of delusion that it cannot recognize its own delusion.
    2
  747. And lots of mind reading as to what Van Zanten was thinking.
    2
  748. Also, no one is being stopped from discussing the issues. I'm the one pushing for it, while exile is the one trying to prevent it. If you'd like to discuss your views in a civil way, I'm more than happy to do same in the spirit of modesty. regards
    2
  749. 911 truth claims, when examine closely, don't stand up to scholarly standards of evidence, or even plainly observable facts. The only exception I would make is the claim some knew an attack was imminent and seemed to do nothing to warn others. I have in mind a certain figure from the cia, who, for whatever reason, may have not cared one way or the other. So that invites serious conversation. The rest of it is evidence of people who lack the thinking skills to see the bigger picture, or whose only diet is truth sites.
    2
  750. The majority of people in the West support it. Nice try.
    2
  751. Would you charge an airline pilot with manslaughter for mistakes under stress? It's practically unheard of in the US. But bring in race and cops into the equation, and all semblance of reason vanishes.
    2
  752. Really. Do tell us what is the point of faking a crash in the middle of nowhere. I can hardly wait.
    2
  753. More like a twisted depraved, psychopath, mega-narcissist monster.
    2
  754. Well, the thing is, that's not what male homosexuality IS. You first have to get your definition straight, then don't stereotype gay men with a broad brush. I am a gay man, much to my disappointment. But I have never practiced that act. I would guess about one fourth to one third of gay men don't practice it either. By contrast, in my country, in any given year 1/3rd of straight men have admitted doing this (with a female partner.) By that standard, there are many more straight men than gay men who practice this. You should not define things by stereotypes.
    2
  755.  @TeaAndBunsMC  Personally, I think these men are guilty, but not of malice murder. The principle of reasonable doubt was not followed, as I see it.
    2
  756. Dua Rai: I agree about many aspects of patriarchy, but among many feminists patriarchy has become dogma. For example, it seems to mean that every non-physical difference between men and women, statistical or otherwise, is caused by patriarchy. The wage gap comes to mind. And any suggestion that differences in temperament or behavioral norms could have even a slight biological component is often met with extreme intolerance.
    2
  757.  @justicegraceful2171  I have researched it very extensively, though not to the point of looking at hours and hours of trial tape. Caveat: I qualify as a white privileged male. Just being honest. I completely understand the arguments for his guilt. I respect your view 100%. In the court of public opinion I think he's guilty too. I think his testimony sounds concocted. But the way I approach these matters from a legal standpoint is, we start with reasonable doubt. The proof in a court of law has to be beyond reasonable doubt. So can/did GZ construct a scenario that's not completely far fetched? Here are the key elements for me. Yes, GZ started the whole thing, which was stupid, unwise and potentially (actually in this case) dangerous. It's like the current Ahmoud Arbery case, though not as brazen. But, unlike the present case, it's entirely conceivable that GZ did lose sight of Trayvon and turned around back to his car. Is this far fetched so far? So, GZ alleges TM, rather than going back to his step father's house, decided to follow him. Perhaps out of rage. Is THAT far fetched? I don't see it. Now we come to the last part. GZ claims that when Trayvon was on top of him, he saw GZ's gun, grabbed for it and said "you're going to die." Now is this far-fetched? Now we are getting into the real nuances. I believe GZ made this part up. But can we say with any confidence it's a twilight zone fantasy? That's where I conclude reasonable doubt may be possible here. The fact GZ was the initial "aggressor" is partially mooted here because in his scenario, he started to walk away and in effect TM started afresh as the new aggressor. I am not saying this is likely. Just not a mad ridiculous fantasy. I am completely with you this man's a hopeless A horrible role model, probably a murderer, and racist scum. Continual run-ins with the law confirm it. Just saying, if I had to decide this man's fate in a court of law, not sure I could do it. Thank you for your replies. Very appreciate your perspective!
    2
  758. It's been said, not until age 42. Women on the other hand are said to reach maturity by 28. Sounds about right.
    2
  759.  @yampy1353  Agreed with all. But it doesn't prove malice murder. Manslaughter would be more in keeping with the context, IMO.
    2
  760. "Go burn in hell you Nazi pig." QED
    2
  761. It's a figure of speech.
    2
  762. Sorry, the vast bulk of evidence shows that the war on drugs causes far more harm than good. It's also just plain wrong to make a relatively harmless act into a federal crime. You have no sense of basic principle here.
    2
  763.  @shauntaylor9503  Thank you for your replies, and being a good sport!
    2
  764. Wrong. Crater with debris buried, and the cockpit found in the trees. And they recovered enough body fragments to ID most of the passengers. Please stop making things up.
    2
  765.  @Maksie0  Exactly. We discovered gravity by experiencing and examining the natural world. The testing came first, the book 2nd. With the bible it's the opposite. We have all these claims in a book but precious little supporting evidence. No evidence of Noah's ark, for example.
    2
  766.  @ngc-fo5te  Not like him at all. If you know you are innocent, you would be far more passionate, you would call it a grave injustice. You would not so casually say I'm innocent and then ramble on about other things.
    2
  767.  @ngc-fo5te  It's not absolutely certain, I agree. I can only say I would never respond so casually. Would you?
    2
  768. The rules of common sense?
    2
  769. In consultation with Elvis.
    2
  770. It's a sad fact that an entire continent is obsessed with pure hate. Remind me never to go there.
    2
  771. That's the problem. He doesn't.
    2
  772.  @knickyak7268  The 757 was never ever called a jumbo jet. I've been an aviation geek practically all my life, which is why I was immediately drawn to the instant experts who sprang up over night after nine 11, and started talking nonsense. Even after I correct you, you make up another BS story about the 757, a narrowbody airliner. Jumbo Jet ALWAYS refers to a twin aisle plane. No sing;e aisle plane has ever been known as a jumbo jet. Can't you get anything right? You have not an ounce of proof to back up your claims. They found the wreckage, they IDd most of the passengers. Witnesses saw it crashing, they have pics of them digging out an engine core, the black boxes. There were no intact bodies, but lots of body fragments. You obviously did zero research on this crash.
    2
  773. I don't think so. The flight time was 31 seconds, and only the last ten seconds were in descent and banking, so probably only 5-7 seconds at most of horror. Especially if you had your eyes closed and were sitting way back on the right side. It's entirely possible some people would barely have had an inkling something was wrong. Planes have also been known to bank very steeply before even pilots notice, witness the Aeroflot A-310 event. I'm sure I'm being a bit wishful, but I think this was a relatively quick one.
    2
  774. What about the mothers? It's they who traditionally do most of the raising.
    2
  775. Easy to say. Impossible to prove.
    2
  776.  @colonelsanders5278  Would you call for life in prison for killing it?
    2
  777.  @eden-k5y8i  Drive-by replies are so endearing in their own way. A lovely way to win arguments without even trying.
    2
  778. Governments always try to profit from convenient circumstances. That includes events they did not cause.
    2
  779. Except when he kills us.
    2
  780. Everyone reacts differently to grief. Maybe the spotlight helps her through her lifelong grieving process.
    2
  781. They were not shot down, end of fantasy.
    2
  782.  @Emotionalsavage281  Not that I actually expect you to take me up on the offer.
    2
  783. You have no proof.
    2
  784.  @giuffre714  Brilliant. Probably no sensible answer will be forthcoming. The larger truth is that people don't choose their most basic feelings. Even their tastes. Did I choose to like chocolate chip ice cream? Tell me about it Crownmode101. These basic realities elude Crownmode, unless of course he/she means homosexual behavior. In which case it's a trivial point, as everyone already agrees with that. (I have no idea what you and Jonathan were arguing about)
    2
  785. It's a sad fact that it's even worse in other places.
    2
  786.  @JW-uy2on  have you heard of female genital mutilation? We don't do it here. Nor do we export it elsewhere. I think most women would choose being looked at.
    2
  787. On the one hand I think we should always respect the right of the families to be as hate filled and vindictive in their attitudes as they want, if that's what it takes to give them strength to go on. On the other, I have the same reaction as you: I tend see these attitudes as representing the dark side of our nature. But then, I have not lost my family to a drunk driver. There's a tug-of-war in my mind between these two clashing instincts. So I tend to just try and be sympathetic to both sides of this equation as I can.
    2
  788. Or better yet, stop bringing children into a horrific world.
    2
  789. Well, since the days of W, I think we (US) are at least a modest improvement. Unlike Musevini, our leaders don't target innocent civilians. We don't worry about "hundreds of government critics and opposition supporters detained and tortured in the last three years..., " as Human Rights Watch put it.
    2
  790. I am getting tired of these absurd posts. So here's a question for you: A 3-year-old boy slips out of his airplane seat while his mom momentarily glances away. He manages to open an emergency door. Would you blame the mom or the airline? (Hint: the NTSB would hold the airline responsible. not the parent.)
    2
  791. Some people find blacks disgusting. It proves nothing.
    2
  792.  @stopcensorship7705  Hatred is hatred, be it of blacks or gays.
    2
  793.  @stopcensorship7705  "don't compare skin color and kinks groomer." I wasn't comparing them to you.
    2
  794.  @stopcensorship7705  Don't compare repetitive one-liners with proof.
    2
  795. If you think the government wished to make fake physics the primary pillars of their alleged plot, you are not thinking like an adult.
    2
  796.  @zzz22214  Doesn't change the fact they aren't stupid. Stupid theories, like the Truth movement's claim the government embraced patently fake physics, has no place in an adult conversation. Wouldn't you agree?
    2
  797.  @philipskalla4312  Interesting. Thank you.
    2
  798.  @philipskalla4312  No wonder Chomsky adores him.
    2
  799. Yes, but not the chase. They had his license. 19 year olds, they have no sense. But adults are supposed to know better. Risking lives by chasing is actually the most irresponsible part of this.
    2
  800. Well, it would be hard to prove intent in court. Also, and this is not to defend MD as a whole, but there was an element of very bad luck. It's not clear if the management knew about the falsified paperwork. But what's very key here, and not very well known, and only partially covered here, is that just a few weeks before Paris, the airline did the unthinkable, disabling warning systems and turning the locking pins in the wrong direction, thus removing the most critical barriers to catastrophe, and making the plane even less safe than it's original design. As one book put it, after this tampering "even a sickly child could have closed the door." While hardly getting MD off the hook, could MD have foreseen such a reckless breech of conduct?
    2
  801. @Fail Zero Not if he were Sam Ukwuachu, a black man who got 6 months for rape.
    2
  802.  @annemedel5463  Yah, this racism thing is way out of contol. Yah I'm a white dude, but I get it. We still live in a racist society, and blacks often get the short end of the legal stick. But the knee jerk reaction that every white sentence is privilege and every black would-be sentence is 20 years to life, this is pure garbage. This is why I have some criticism of BLM. Even befiore the facts are in, they frequently prejudge cases. It's just pure speculation in many cases, and the human tendency to elevate instinct to fact.
    2
  803.  les antoine  This thread is littered with stupid comments. Statutory rape typically results in light sentences. It's only a misdemeanor offense in some states. In others, it's not even a crime at all, including for example Maine and Vermont. This gushing of racist rhetoric is another example how it's hard to have a balanced conversation about anything to do with race.
    2
  804. They didn't. They are everywhere still.
    2
  805. Anyone can make a claim on Youtube. Proves nothing.
    2
  806. The problem is God himself. He chose to create the very concept of hate. Certainly we humans didn't.
    2
  807. Highly unlikely, as 1) There is no direct evidence he breached the rules on purpose. 2) he commenced take off right after receiving airways clearance, and hearing the words "you are cleared." 3) Had it been a deliberate decision, he knows he will likely be turned in and lose his job AND go to jail 4) The God like theme is primarily a product of unquestioned myth and unconfirmed caricature.
    2
  808. No, logic gives also gives us choice No. 3: it crashed in one piece. a 2nd debris field 1.5 miles distant produced a tiny number of small fragments, blasted there by force of impact; and another tiny debris field 8 miles distant with a few pieces of paper, carried there by air currents.
    2
  809. The lack of visible debris, though, does not point to a shoot down any more than it does to an intact plane crashing.
    2
  810. I fear these men were always like that.
    2
  811. In case you were wondering, they outnumber you guys by a huge margin.
    2
  812. Amen to what, Uganda's worst mass murderer?
    2
  813.  @jakelol5119  Because they know it's very unlikely they'll get the full sentence.
    2
  814. Even black legal experts agreed she didn't deserve more than a few years. There is no requirement to give the minimum. This was not intentional. Usually, we don't jail people for unintentional lapses under stress. Think airline pilots. The judge thought for herself. I think the anger at Potter is better directed at Duante, whose behavior was orders of magnitude worse than hers: car jacking, strangling a woman, etc. It might be refreshing if his mother might one day forgive her. She forgave her son after all. That's normally hypocrisy, except that a grieving mother has a right to feel the way she does.
    2
  815. The expert consensus appears to be, based on the NTSB's black box report for flight 93, that the plane crashed at Shaksville. Oh sure, here and there you can find a voice or two claiming to have been an aircraft investigator say this. But not any consensus of experts.
    2
  816. Maybe so. But there would be no need for such marches to begin with in the absence of past (and present) bigotry.
    2
  817. OK, let's say gay is a choice. Why is it cause for celebration? That said, Carson's views are ill conceived, as the below wiki entry suggests: "Heterosexual men in prison view their homosexual acts as being "situation specific" and may not consider themselves bisexual. These men often describe how they imagine being with a woman while taking part in sexual activity with a male inmate. During masturbation, they picture past sexual experiences with women.[9] They take part in homosexual activity due to having no “heterosexual outlets." Many ex-prisoners say the same thing. There's countless examples.
    2
  818. I think this issue has been blown way out of proportion. It was not his job to check the peep hole, so it really made no difference what language he spoke.
    2
  819. Sometimes it pays to say no to the rule makers.
    2
  820. Tell us the errors of this presentation.
    2
  821. "But thanks for having a civilized conversation with me! Most people would be rude..." You're welcome. Civility and being nice is more important than pushing our ideas on others.
    2
  822. But they weren't trying to.
    2
  823. He is a hypocrite. He wants respect only for his country's values, but denies the same courtesy to gays in his country. That's a major violation of the Golden Rule. If a country practices mass slaughter of, say, black people, would you also say we should respect that country's values?
    2
  824.  @zackakai5173  You got it right. 9/11 truth are the sheeple incarnate. Even the government could not match the sheer number of lies (well, maybe excepting Trump) they spew forth. It's just another example how the internet has given a huge voice to every last crackpot on the planet.
    2
  825. "Initially well received by the 9-11 Truth movement, 'Rebekah Roth' has become a focus of doubt, with many activists questioning both her motives and bona-fides."
    2
  826. Well, she passed all the exams with flying colors, never had a single complaint. The fact is, the study of heuristics shows that even the most seasoned and experienced can suffer lapses that cannot be detected as they happen. So I feel it's the right thing to give her the benefit of the doubt here.
    2
  827. In what way is it more ruined today?
    2
  828. Not in France.
    2
  829. Respect to snoopery. The importance of being a busybody (not to mention mass murderer, megalomaniac and torture.)
    2
  830.  @amireallythatgrumpy6508  Agreed . But that means the lobby itself may still have been sustainable for 6 extra seconds, just saying, since everyone keeps saying 10 seconds. NIST is to blame for being so sloppy in their assessment.
    2
  831.  @JUNXO  👍
    2
  832.  @lonerebeI  It's almost impossible to twist the stats to make driving look safer, even for an above average drive. However, the fear may not be based on dying but on an inherent fear that humans have, or the fear of being in terror. That's certainly understandable.
    2
  833.  @mrjayz94  Unless there's a fire.
    2
  834. Why phrase it as "are men that insecure" rather than "are SOME men that insecure."
    2
  835. Anyone can make mistakes under stress. It's wishful thinking to think such errors are always 100% completely avoidable.
    2
  836. After witnessing humankind for 60 years, I grow more weary of humanity every year.
    2
  837.  @hornet6969  Hello and thanks for your reply. Firstly, there is no such thing as "inherent safety" on planet earth. So saying flying is inherently unsafe means little. 2nd, as I am confident is already obvious to you, statistics may mean nothing regarding the future, as air safety depends on a continuous maintenance and vigilance which at anytime can change. So that leads to the question, if we discard the raw statistics, how do we reliably rate each mode of transport, and on what basis do we say some are inherently safe and others not? I've studied most issues of commercial safety, so on what basis do you think I need to go back and research what I already have researched?
    2
  838. If there's a valid claim in what you're saying, submit a paper to a science journal. Easiest thing in the world to do, but after 20 years the truth mvt refuses to publish in science journals, by which I mean respected science peer review publications. If you have the science on your side, then we should have the proof in hand. Let me know when you have some.
    2
  839.  @jotammerretenezeta4509  What exactly do you mean it blew while falling?
    2
  840.  @jotammerretenezeta4509  Oh I see what you are referring to. My lay understanding goes like this: First, it's important to note that the actual collapse didn't start until after the upper block had tilted several degrees. And as it tilted it also started rotating and twisting. As a result, the upper block would most likely have torn itself free of the perimeter columns on the other sides of the building. Once enough of these connections were severed, the upper block had only a single floor below holding it up. But the floors were not designed to carry such weight, so the entire upper block could only fail downwards. So the two key takeaways for me are: there was no change in path because the tilting happened before the ensuing collapse; and it was this tilting twisting motion that caused the severing of the upper block from the perimeter columns below it. That explains why it had to fall downwards, not sideways. I am not a structural engineer, so I don't know if this is what actually happened. But do you have evidence that invalidates this possible scenario?
    2
  841. Is he respected for his leadership and compassion? Or for being Uganda's most notorious butcher, and his sham elections which ensure he will be president for life? Did you respect him when his security forces shot and killed 54 peaceful protesters during the last presidential election? And when he excused their killers? Go for it.
    2
  842.  @peggymccabe5090  The fact is, most of these people don't shed a tear when the next fetus is aborted. It's a passion based on religion, not their empathy for fetuses. It's a total fraud. Take out religion and the bible, and they would quickly lose interest.
    2
  843. It would make sense that not many passports were on the plane. Thus, if one were found, the odds would be much higher than average it would be one of the hijackers. Back then especially, few traveled with passports on domestic flights. "Only a passport." Wrong again. Lots of paper and debris were found on the streets and sidewalk. Not just a passport.
    2
  844.  StopCensorship4--1  Your comedic skills aren't in the best shape tonight.
    2
  845.  @remaks8405  Sure, as long as we realize freedom and fair elections are not among them.
    2
  846. It must have been easier than the Tristar's #2?
    2
  847.  @JuanGonzales-zd9yf  You are not saying anything we already don't know. I bow out now. Thank you for your thoughts. :)
    2
  848. No, it worked. They thwarted the hijacker's plan.
    2
  849. The tapes were played 20 years ago for the families. So unless you are accusing the families of lying, we have good reason to believe they exist.
    2
  850.  @TheRealBigPearl  Think you are missing the point of the airplane analogy. If an emergency door can be opened in flight, then the airline has a defective product. That part is beyond dispute. So why is that any different than the zoo? If a 3-year-old can slip away and come face to face with a frigging gorilla in mere seconds, how is that any different in principle? You must be aware how often toys are recalled because of various child hazards. Think if the gorilla exhibit at Cincinatti Zoo (at that time) were a product you could buy. No doubt it would be recalled in two seconds. I rest my case :)
    2
  851.  @SamFindley-zt7mt  Interesting. I think this view is off base for one basic reason. As any parent knows, keeping an eye on your child at all times is not practical. The mom took her eyes off her child for a brief moment. In mere seconds the child came face to face with a gorilla. We cannot expect 100% perfection from a parent who may let go of her child for a second to sneeze, or to adjust her glasses. But don't we have a right to expect a child proof exhibit? cheers
    2
  852. What would you do if you were gay?
    2
  853.  @gives_bad_advice  Why do you think the skeptics never learn from the copious quantities of science based refutations of their claims? Are they just too lazy to look them up?
    2
  854. Most of it was found under the crater. As odd as that sounds, it is not unique.
    2
  855. You guys say that, but where's your evidence?
    2
  856. Respect for the families wishes?
    2
  857. The case frustrates me because of the fundamental assumption that these texts were the equivalent of a drunk driver killing Roy. There is no way to read Roy's mind to test the idea he had no ability to resist the text messages. That's yet another layer of reasonable doubt.
    2
  858.  @2300j  Thank your for your reply. I agree the implications are a bit unsettling. I cannot say I am completely convinced by my own argument. I feel from a "cosmic" perspective the girl got about the right amount of punishment. But I guess my point is we should be making law on the basis of concrete principles and not on instinctive emotion. I think this case was more about the latter. People felt in their gut Michelle is evil, and that dictated such posts as she deserves life in prison.
    2
  859. Lol It just goes to show how women are instinctively attracted to raw masculinity. And let's face it, criminality is on some primal level the ultimate symbol of raw virility. Not saying this applies to you personally. But for countless women (and no doubt gay men), it does.
    2
  860. Yes, that's a positive sign. The less spam the better.
    2
  861. And tangerines look like oranges.
    2
  862. Yup. It can happen to anyone. Read up on the study of heuristics.
    2
  863. Control. The more you learn the more you realize we now live in an age where 1st tier airlines just don't seem to crash any more. The odds of dying per flight are fast approaching one chance in 100 million. That knowledge might help build your confidence. It did for me, and I've been following these things for essentially 40 years. The Paris crash was what started my fear of flying. Now I have minimal anxiety. Every flight is boringly the same. You'll never crash, so just do it and enjoy.
    2
  864.  @cazziefores2183  Oh I see. Well, these things often do not respond to data. Psychology is not rational after all. Diazepam, is that the same as Trazodone? . . . .I wouldn't mind being stuck in the UK, especially as I've spent less than 48 hours there. Happy traveling!
    2
  865. Of course it did. What is to be gained by faking a crash in the middle of nowhere? Truthers (not saying you necessarily) never seem to get the Big Picture. That alone destroys the premise.
    2
  866. Interesting perspective. I think most passengers thought they would be dead anyway, since the chances of any passengers successfully landimg a 757 would be small.
    2
  867. How can we possibly know that based on this tiny snippet of explanation?
    2
  868. OR you are voting for a mentally ill psychopath that cons the gullible. A deranged demagogue who spews crackpot theories like immigrants eat pets. And sadly, you probably believe it too. Go for it
    2
  869. Fake post.
    2
  870. Far more than a simple mistake brought down this plane. I could name at least 7 factors.
    2
  871. Well he has a record behind him. Your post does not.
    2
  872. Because they are adults only biologically.
    2
  873. How many absurd claims do you need before rendering the truth movement a pile of sh-t?
    2
  874. Bu there's one important difference. Westerners are by and large satisfied with their lives. Ugandans on the other hand rank themselves among the most miserable on earth.
    2
  875. I'd say by Chomsky standards he is classy here. But then he really couldn't get himself to say even one positive about Buckley. I know WFB really outraged a lot of people, and I'm not a fan in particular, but for goodness sake, what conservative today has his comedic gifts, verbal sophistication and a grasp of history and politics. I thought he held is own fairly well for most of the discussion. It's hard to imagine any conservative today matching that performance.
    2
  876. No, the zoo killed the gorilla. If your gorilla exhibit is so flawed that a child can slip into it in mere seconds, you have a negligent zoo, pure and simple. Blaming the mom assumes parents, even great ones, are always perfect. That's a stupid assumption, and goes against the experience of anyone who's ever had a child.
    2
  877. No one ever said that.
    2
  878. If one were to give the primary definition of being gay, it would be "exclusive sexual attraction to the same sex." Your definition leaves out the fact that many gay men do not practice it, or anal sex. And presumably lesbians don't either. This shows again the level of raw unadulterated ignorance spread by Uganda's most notorious butcher. The mark of a great leader has more to with ending corruption, fair elections, and ending election massacres than it does on bedroom management. You guys want the West to mind its own business. But you seem obsessed with minding gay people's business. Why not stick your nose somewhere other than the bedroom.
    2
  879. That is so true. The truth movement, almost by definition, is not the truth.
    2
  880. Agree. Let kids have a real childhood for cripes sake. No trans seminars for 1st graders please. If Kevin wants to change his name to Caitlin, then you can take 30 seconds to tell your class of 1st graders and leave it that.
    2
  881. Really. Political leader who mows down peaceful protesters by the dozens at election time. Sounds good to me.
    2
  882. I think whether we admit it or not, as Steven Pinker wrote, we are now all feminists compared to generations past. What man today would call for taking away the vote from women? Or not allow them to serve on juries (which was true in the US until 1973)? And who is against equal rights? But it's still legit to point out that the kind of feminism advocated today is filled with questionable dogmas, such as the alleged rape crisis on college campuses, the wage gap, or rape culture.
    2
  883. Maybe you and I are minority men. But clearly, the idea that all males look the other way, and we are all part of the problem, is disrespectful not just to men, but to the wives, partners who cherish and love the men in their life.
    2
  884.  @Westcoast-qu6cl  Either airfone or cell phone.
    2
  885. Not white man any more than any other color of man. We don't need to bring racism into the conversation.
    2
  886. There is no doubt that your comments speak to the inferiority complex of a country down among the lowest 20% on the misery index. By blaming gays for their problems, it eases the sense of inferiority so many Ugandans must feel.
    2
  887. The real question is, how can so many people be blind to this delusional personality? His non-proof proofs? His repeated failed predictions about Trump being re-instated? He's a combination of Jim Bakker and Jehova's witness.
    2
  888. Doesn't really do that for most gays though. The unraveling and collapse of the "ex gay" movement and its recanted ministers is the hard proof.
    2
  889. You can't judge safety on a single accident. Can you?
    2
  890. There's no proof this was racism. Are you a mind reader?
    2
  891. We are a corrupt species.
    2
  892. PSA 182 came months earlier, and may be the most famous shot of a crashing airliner.
    2
  893. No one said it melted steel beams. Get a hold of yourself.
    2
  894.  @allsensesfiring  I'm not saying overall Kallstrom is untrustworthy. But please do read the sworn testimony of William Tobin. According to him Kallstrom was literally about to announce sabotage. Tobin told him this was premature: "That didn't sit well, and at that point he got about six inches from my face and prompted - proceeded to advise me in rather graphic terms that it was a bomb. And that's the most suitable presentation I can put on for prime time right now." Luckily Kallstrom shut up, and avoided what Tobin feared would be a major PR disaster.
    2
  895. Maybe so, but the math comment is about as trivial a part of this discussion as you can get.
    2
  896. Yes, he believes a penguin was flying the plane.
    2
  897. But either way their pursuit of an arrest was illegal, thus nullifying their claim to self-defense. Or at least partly so.
    2
  898. It seems to get better in some places and worse than others. I think in the US education has had a decided effect, though Trump's win shows only so much.
    2
  899. This mad love affair with pure evil, Uganda's worst mass murderer, who tortures the opposition, whose security forces mow down peaceful protestors by the dozen, cannot be explained by rational means.
    2
  900.  @christin418  Thank you for your suggestions. Have a nice night.
    2
  901.  @davidbutter7433  Sad but true. I think some Ugandans go about this issue the complete wrong way, as well as many Americans. They assume gay is a lifestyle, which is a misnomer. Or you-know-what sex. First, that's sexist as it implies that gay women don't count. 2nd, it overlooks the fact that gay is at base an attraction, not a behavior. 3rd, it overlooks the fact that many gay men do not engage in this taboo behavior. Indeed in the US, it's not even the most common form of sexual behavior among his group. It also overlooks the fact that in the US at least, 35% of straight men say they have also practiced such sex (with a woman) within the last year. That means that in total, far more straight men than gay have practiced this behavior. Beware next time you shake hands with a straight man! Disgusting! I'll bet there's plenty of that in Uganda too.
    2
  902.  @TommyReckx  Just as he goes straight to the point with his murdering of peaceful protesters, torturing the opposition, and indeed being Uganda's most celebrated thug.
    2
  903.  @zim.k  I have no problem with that. But I was under the impression homosexuality is still illegal in Uganda. Do you know the status of the laws there?
    2
  904.  @POH341  Wrong. Musevini is not just stating his opinion but supports laws that make homosexuality a crime punishable by prison. I am not doing any thing remotely like that, am I? He's the hypocrite: asking the West to respect his country, but not returning the favor to gays. I cannot think of a more clear cut violation of the Golden Rule. It shows again the difficulty so many people seem to have with putting together all of the dots correctly.
    2
  905.  @POH341  "being lgbt is a action" It doesn't have to be. I don't participate or identify with that community. And just in case you were wondering, I have never practiced you-know-what. I find it just as unappealing as probably most people do. We have to start getting away from stereotypes and judging people as individuals.
    2
  906. To an extent maybe. I more or less accept the NTSB's verdict, but the case for a missile is not nearly as crackpot as the so-called truth mvt. One is within the realm of respectable debate. The other is pure nuts.
    2
  907.  @nustada  But was it self-defense? Or was the gun already pointing at Arbery? If the latter, that would be assault with a deadly weapon.
    2
  908. Maybe so. But that said, if you think the Ms behaved responsibly, you have amputated the context. Aiming a loaded weapon at a man more than 30 ft from you is reckless. Shouting “I said stop,” Gregory McMichael said, according to the transcript. “I’ll blow your f**king head off". That's also assault. The man had no obligation to stop because they weren't following the rules of citizen's arrest.
    2
  909.  @jegamespeed5399  I'm trying to figure out in principle what harm gays (of necessity) cause in your society, regardless of pressure campaigns or their absence. What is the fundamental harm? Is it just that you don't like it?
    2
  910. Well there's no such thing as AI. "AI" is just mathematics. There's no real intelligence.
    2
  911. I knew Dr. Phil has been deteriorating in recent years. But mental illness? I would never have guessed.
    2
  912. Can you spell out such a scenario?
    2
  913. One again, there's not much real evidence arrogance caused the crash.
    2
  914.  @waldopepper4069  There is simply no proof his actions were base on a god complex or arrogance. You are speculating.
    2
  915.  @waldopepper4069  If you went to court, what evidence would you cite? How do you know Van Zanten was not making an error under stress? How do you know he didn't mishear and interpreted the airways clearance as a take off clearance? After all, he started to roll right after hearing the clearance. The controller's very first words were, "you are cleared...." There is possibly also expectation bias at work: normally one expects to receive take off clearance at this point, given that airways clearance is almost always received well in advance. Also, during the taxi, Van Zanten asks for clarification several times, indicating some form of stress might be causing him to lose situational awareness, or that he might even be having hearing problem. Since he was also primarily a simulator captain, that could imply he wasn't used to asking for or receiving clearances. Some years back a Lufthansa crew made a similar mistake at LHR. So convinced were the crew that they had just received a take off clearance, they radioed back ATC and told them that since they came uncomfortably close to hitting another plane, it was not such a good idea to have been given the clearance !! Again, part of the explanation is undoubtedly expectation bias that what comes next is a take off clearance. So I am not saying arrogance did not play a role. Only that we should be a bit modest when it comes to our speculations. Accident investigators have to always keep these things in mind. The Spanish report, indeed, devoted a fair amount of space trying to figure out what caused the captain's lapse. Pan Am 1st officer Bragg commented some years later that Van Zanten was, in his opinion, a "gentleman who got himself into a hurry. We all have a tendency to do it." And pilots "don't cause accidents on purpose." Do you know more than him?
    2
  916. Exactly how do you envision nanothermite demolishing the towers, as no truther ever explains how. It's not an explosive, so do you envision nanothermite used to trigger explosives? Tell us your proposed mechanism.
    2
  917. I would say he tried for about half an hour to not be constantly cut off every time he tried to make a point.
    2
  918. You are way behind the curve. The alleged alive hijackers were mostly different people with the same name. Get a life.
    2
  919. Only one thing more far fetched and that's the truth mvt itself. Its central tenets are beyond preposterous, such as the retarded notion the government decided to base its central conspiracies on fake physics. If the world were run by 10-year-olds, that theory might make some sense. But for alleged adults to embrace something so monumentally stupid is further confirmation of the present generation's "headlong flight into the absurd." The truth movement is like consulting Alice in wonderland for foreign policy analysis. Little wonder the movement effectively died out long ago.
    2
  920. Why would they bother making up a story like that?
    2
  921. The answer is, normally runways are not used this way. In the US I believe it's even against regulations. But on this day at this airport the taxiway was clogged with other airplanes because of all the flight diversions from Las Palmas. So the aircraft had no choice but to use at least the first part of the runway to begin their taxi.
    2
  922. Only a bit of paper found 8 miles away, carried by air currents. And downwind at that.
    2
  923. +Deborah My understanding is that she was conflicted, and as you said, did initially want him to get help. But then she did an about face, and it became evident she was inspired by a movie or internet TV show involving a similar scenario. She copied some of the language almost verbatim. So it was, as in the movie, a sick charade for her own benefit and attention. So it was a lot worse than just not handling it right. That said, I don't know why people think 17-year-olds are supposed to be so grown-up. IMO they act like babies half the time, and display terrible judgement in general. So in that sense I can see why the judge may have been reluctant to give her more time.
    2
  924. @phillipclearman859 I kind of agree; Bryant was a victim of the felony murder rule, among other things. His aggressive chasing and hitting Arbery, however, seems to indicate some punishment. IMO, there was a rush to judgement and denial of due process for all three men. The chief offense, as I see it, is the assumption of malice when Travis pulled the trigger. I refuse to play the mind reading game.
    2
  925. That's become common all over the place in the last year. They now say "108 months." And so on. But the fact is, that's an appropriate sentence. It was an accident. Had it been a black cop who made the same mistake, the protests would be farther and fewer.
    2
  926. One of the daughters supports him!
    2
  927.  StopCensorship4--1  Your theory is incapable of explaining the gay reparative therapy movement. A moment's reflection shows that if gay were a choice, there would be no market for the therapy. Nice try again.
    2
  928.  @reginageorge4  But some people are born stupid.
    2
  929.  @MaticJ29  There is little decency in a Being who decided horrific suffering was essential for this world. God created everything? Then He's responsible for everything in it. If He was REALLY the beneficent, all powerful, all knowing wise Being He is said to be, there would be no starving babies, brutal torture, no mass murderers like Putin. If he could not or would not prevent evil, He is a not a real God. If you didn't grow up raised on religion, you would not have the views you do. It's faith where you fail to really do a fact check, assuming that if you did, the evidence would pan out. Try thinking for yourself and see where it leads you.
    2
  930.  @stopcensorship7705  Someone needs to ask the Lord a few questions, like: -Why did you create homosexual attraction? -If you're such a perfect being, why did you create the highly imperfect and murderous creature known as Man? -If Perfection existed since eternity, why suddenly your need to create this massively evil blight, beginning in 4004 BC? -Why do you enjoy evil so much? -Is it nice to wish death upon a cursing child? -Given that you know all things past present and prospective, why didn't you use your omniscience to foresee who would misuse their free will, and leave them out of your creation? Since you guys have no answers to this.
    2
  931.  @MentourPilot  And if Pan Am hesitated, doesn't that to some extent justify my and some others' criticism of ATC rushing to put Pan Am onto an active runway? As the official report noted, this practice was "potentially hazardous." I wonder why they chose the word "potentially," when, as Jan Bartelski notes in his book, perhaps "highly dangerous" is more apt. Thoughts?
    2
  932. Whatever almighty power who may exist doesn't respect human life. At least to judge from the appalling nature of His creation.
    2
  933.  @riddikulus1432  If God really is a perfect Being, he would not have invented the concept of suffering.
    2
  934. Van Zanten's personality as proximate cause is pure speculation, fueled mainly by poetic license. As Mentour Pilot stated , the decision to refuel was operationally sound, and was not criticized any of the reports on the crash.
    2
  935.  @michaeljohnotoole2647  I don't think there's much disagreement Van Zanten was the primary cause of the crash. The KLM captain had just seconds to react to a terrifying specter. I think its unreasonable to expect him to go through all the possible avertive scenarios and calculate which would be best. In this level of stress, he undoubtedly resorted to what is known "heuristics." You act automatically based on your learning and past training. "cleared the runway he said 'Oh Yes' --- Oh Yes ! " In today's world of CRM his confidence would be rightly criticized. But in 1977, when CRM was barely in its infancy, probably 9 captains out of ten would have reacted similarly. When ATC came back with "OK," that was no doubt taaken as proof positive they had clearance to take off. So when the FE put his concern in the form of a question, the logical thought would be "Oh, the FE must be out of the loop. He failed to here the confirmatory "OK." The assumption of arrogance causing the crash is precisely that: an assumption, speculation for which robust evidence is lacking.
    2
  936.  @michaeljohnotoole2647  "OK is often considered slang and is not to be considered proof positive for take off clearance" But after believing he had just been given a valid take off clearance, the "OK" would most likely, in the captain's mind, have played the role of taking an already solid belief and subjecting it to even more confirmation. CRM did not exist in 1977, and as stated I have little doubt Van Zanten was not unusual to have responded the way he did. It would be commonplace. "... does it matter what sort of a character the pilot has on your next flight or would you be pleased with a celebrity whose charisma was supposed to make up for any character defects or as in this case tendencies that can facilitate accidents ? It almost feels like you are saying to me " Blank Happens " . I would obviously prefer a person who is not arrogant and works as a team. This is irrelevant to my point, which is, the claim that arrogance caused this crash is speculation, not a known fact. This belief has as much to do with poetic license (not in this particular video). I prefer we go by facts. I would have been much more concerned with putting paying passengers in a situation where to me, the redundancy factor had fallen below acceptable minimums. "Blank happens" The unfortunate thing is, this is in fact the nature of the world. I think the anger and rage over VZ is a denial of this. We like to pretend that if a person is duly qualified and acting on good faith, these things could never happen. It's wishful thinking in the extreme. Maybe the crash was due to a highly irresponsible arrogant know-it-all. But maybe it was stress. Heuristics (decision-making under stress) teaches us such stress can result in even basic errors that happen on a completely unconscious level, and thus cannot be detected as they happen. Stress also tends to narrow one's focus, further increasing shortsightedness. We tend to fall back on established patterns. Perhaps in this case that established pattern might have been being a training captain, which may have precluded the same sequence of actions.
    2
  937.  @michaeljohnotoole2647  Thank you for your a fine discussion!
    2
  938.  Andy  The thing is, from the moment we see Arbery jogging past the the front of the car, the first gunshot is heard almost immediately. That means there was not time for any meaningful pre-shot conflict. Arbery saw a gun, and could only react in 2 seconds. That means a gun was pointing at him immediately. No time for prior conflict. Under that circumstance, Arbery had every right to grab the gun, or shoot him dead, anything. Because the gunman committed assault and threatened his life, period. There is no room for further discussion.
    2
  939. That remains to be seen. In any case, voting for a traitor is a crime in itself as far as I see it.
    2
  940. It's sad that you don't recognize assault with a deadly weapon when you see it: the precise action Travis initiated that provoked the final act of violence.
    2
  941.  @cajunrandy2143  I agree too. But it's too bad that Potter is being lumped together with your typical racist cop. Or to equate an accident with murder.
    2
  942. Because, racists thought they probably are, there's no proof this is why they pursued Arbery. That's speculation, and speculation is what justice seems to be about today. Actual facts don't matter anymore.
    2
  943. Something about the world is off. It's all a hologram.
    2
  944. @StopCensorship4--03 They must have gone to the school you did.
    2
  945. The miscarriage of justice continues.
    2
  946.  @theartistformerlyknownasth8612  I agree with the vast majority of legal scholars in the US it's not a good rule, across the board. This why more and more states are pushing to get rid of it. It's been particularly used unfairly against black defendants. We don't need felony murder if we simply adopt the much better rule: punish on the basis of criminal X's actual actions. That's far more in keeping with common sense, the Golden Rule, and the intuitive belief that punishment should be proportional to the crime. I am willing to comprise to keep it if each crime were evaluated on a case by case basis. Here, as phone records prove, there was no prior phone contact between the Ms and Bryon either the day of, or the day before. Bryon started to follow without any knowledge of anything. He did not know if this chase was legal. He had no way of knowing shots would be fired. So you can't put him in the same category as an armed bank robber who is knowingly doing something highly dangerous. Justice means we consider puting aside our extreme hatred of the moment, and go by principle. Bryon may be guilty of hitting Arbery with his car, in addition to the attempted false imprisonment. If you could create your ideal justice system, would call for a life sentence for someone who, although a racist pig, not only did not pull the trigger, but was not in on the plan, and didn't know gunshots would occur? That does not excuse his actions, and he obviously saw the Ms were armed, and maybe that dictates more years. But life? I think that should be reserved for worse came crimes, which this was not.
    2
  947. Well, there's at least a kernel of truth to this point of view.
    2
  948. Oh I see. The memorial is correct. The caption is in error.
    2
  949. The truth is, as Chomsky stated, the only person you should trust is yourself. While men's distrust results in more violent outcomes to be sure, the unfortunate reality in my experience is that women aren't much better. You might want to read radical feminist Chesler Phyllis' "Woman's Inhumanity to Woman," a sad tale indeed.
    2
  950. Your sentence lacks a period.
    2
  951. But not the only twoofer who can't connect the dots. Or hasn't a clue how to do real research.
    2
  952.  @32123ABCBA  The photoshop theory was refuted on Ronald Wieck's show with what's his face's lame arguments. Ah yes, Ace Baker. It was a total joke. See Hardfire Baker and Wright.
    2
  953.  @giuffre714  You are talking to someone who is very confused.
    2
  954. There is no fact. It's a personal belief, and one not shared by most of the world. Nice try.
    2
  955. Not addressed to me, but my thoughts: The DC-10 actually had a better crash rate than the 747, but 3 of those DC-10 crashes were design related to a degree, the Paris crash being the most directly so. It also has to be said that bad luck played a role as well, since Turkish Airlines' tampering with the safety mechanisms could not have been foreseen by McDonnell Douglas. I believe there are no more DC-10s of any series being used on scheduled passenger routes. So, the answer to your question is that the DC-10 did not crash more often, but it might possibly hold the record for the most design-related crashes. These 3 crashes were not enough, though, to make it a record holder for its overall crash rate.
    2
  956. Easy to say. Impossible to prove.
    2
  957. But this case has nothing to do with a minor under 14 being accused of sexual assault.
    2
  958. Thank you user-rn8 Yes, it is speculation to say arrogance caused the crash. I don't blame you however, as this is what so many of the dramas (not this one) want you to think. It's good for ratings.
    2
  959. Great question, and one where a very likely answer exists. This is one of the most overlooked aspects of the crash. This video at least goes further than other video presentations. The official report barely even mentions these factors. The books "The Last Nine Minutes" and "Destination Disaster" give a more detailed accounting. From the latter book, p241: It was observed that there were two sets of "score marks" that indicated where the pins were in relation to the latches. One set was much lighter than the other, indicating the changes were made just weeks before the crash, or at most a few months, long after all the Douglas support crews had left Istanbul. There's the answer! Turkish Airlines maintenance did this. At least, it's hard to conceive of any other party having access to the plane. And for obvious reasons. They were no doubt fed up with all the delays the faulty door was causing. The re-rigging of the locking pins reduced the amount of force needed to close the door to just 13 pounds. As the authors of the book wrote, "From then on, even a sickly child could have beaten the safety system." Both of these books are classics and highly recommended. In my opinion, "Destination Disaster" may well be the greatest aviation accident investigation book ever written. Particularly chilling are the Douglas support team's journal. Spine tingling accounts of the Turkish Airlines crews shocking anti-safety culture. One passage I'll never forget is something like: errors including underestimating gross weight by thousands of pounds; flight engineer stares blankly at malfunctioning instruments. It may be a one of a kind document. This book is usually available used for a fair price. Hope this helps. It shows that official reports aren't always as complete as one would hope.
    2
  960.  @jahbern  I fear they may not have completely understood the risk. These mechanics may not have realized how the locking pin settings were absolutely vital to safety. But who knows. To be fair, the Turkish Airlines of today is a far safer and I would not use their abysmal safety record of the past to judge them today. I wish the same could be said for McDonnell Douglas, which continues to produce faulty airplanes under the alias of Boeing.
    2
  961. OK, Exhibit One. the 9/11 truth movement.
    2
  962. ​ @Cookie-hg4xb  Well what's your version of flight 93? And then we can discuss both.
    2
  963.  @Cookie-hg4xb  OK, I'll do it for you. You would have us believe, I take it, that the government decided it was more important to have flight 93 target blades of grass in the middle of nowhere, rather than buildings with people in them. Why is that? To minimize the death toll? To have some utterly irrelevant "hero story"? Or was dead grass necessary to fight a war? That's 911 truth for you. 3rd grade intellectual level.
    2
  964.  @stopcensorship7705  And while you're at it, why did God create gay attraction if He was against gay attraction? Enquiring minds want to know.
    2
  965.  @sterdezy1569  I don't care either. But no one can predict the future. Do you respect Western values?
    2
  966. Because you'll believe anything. Think, and extra 44 deaths in the middle of nowhere. Only a twoofer would think that a sensible plot.
    2
  967. Well he really didn't win because he decided against appealing the decision of the Constitutional Court of Uganda to annul the anti-gay law back in 2014. He was more concerned with Western opinion it seems.
    2
  968. That's correct. Elvis was at the controls.
    2
  969.  @arathan9305  Other than the 2 or 3 times in their life when they have sex in order to have a baby, do heterosexuals need to act on their attractions?
    2
  970. And heuristics shows even the most experienced and conscientious are prone to unconscious error. This may have been a factor here.
    2
  971. But its exact moral status is up for some discussion.
    2
  972.  @eileenroque  But what about all the children who were not given a chance to be, but otherwise would have been born, had their parents decided not to use birth control. Is that any worse?
    2
  973.  @eileenroque  I appreciate your accommodating perspective. I believe we all should continue to try and learn no matter how old. I sometimes ask myself before bed time, what would I have done differently today if I could live it over.
    2
  974. Well, this is part of the problem with the rape culture thesis. It's IMHO a product of academic feminists, who have already demonstrated throughout the years their fondness for redefining reality on their terms. On the other hand I believe "rape culture" does have some truth to it. There are still traditional attitudes out there that trivialize sexual violence and even blame the victim, as in the widely expressed view that women have to "take responsibility" for putting themselves at higher risk for rape. But these discussions are unbalanced which is why you never hear the term "anti-rape culture," as if the culture only operates in one direction. That's a sure sign there's an agenda underlying this. The notion of "anti-rape culture" is strict;y taboo at TED talks for instance.
    2
  975. But just think for a moment how ridiculous that is. No wonder it was invented by truthers. The goal of ter--sm is to maximize fear and terror, not diminish it. That's called common sense, and all you need to know to reject that claim.
    2
  976. You've got to do a little bit better research than that. Seriously.
    2
  977.  @buzzedalldrink9131  No offense, but I had the feeling that after my last post, I would not be hearing from you again. Or are you willing to do something refreshing, and concede that on this particular point, you got it wrong.
    2
  978. "If it walks like a duck" There are lots of people, like me, who find the passion to argue against nonsense. Witness the magazine "Skeptic." You don't need to be a shill to do this. I'm curious why evidence doesn't matter to you. Saying "shill" isn't evidence of anything. Why do you say things you know to be untrue? Like defending a plane crash you looked that was mistaken, yet refusing to acknowledge it. Integrity comes by admitting error. You haven't learned to do this yet. cheers
    2
  979. Kent Sears: Spare us your drivel.
    2
  980. Don't know that it's fair. An unintentional mistake under pressure can happen to anyone of us at any time. That's not, for me at least, what manslaughter cases are about.
    2
  981.  @Hallaneious  Well there's the "maternal line" theory of male homosexuality, which has neither been proven nor disproven. But this being Youtube, I wouldn't expect you've ever heard of it though.
    2
  982.  @Christynmaine  Well where was the terrorist threat from last week?
    2
  983. Sure do. In fact a powerplant expert identified the engine part pictured at the Pentagon. Pics of United 93's black boxes have been online for decades now. A huge part of an engine was found at Ground Zero before the collapses.
    2
  984. And Kenya will gain respect, as your culture is backwards on this issue. An enlightened morality doesn't put people in jail for activities that are none of your business. An enlightened morality recognizes that you don't persecute people for behavior that's totally private and doesn't harm innocent people. That's just not acceptable anymore given the moral progress that has been made over the centuries. Why is it so hard to mind your own business?
    2
  985. If gay were a choice, why would such therapy be needed?
    2
  986. It's always been scary for women - and men too.
    2
  987. I'm wondering, today's generation of aircraft are designed to safely take off as long as full power remains on one side. Was this also true for Concorde? If so, could a similar chain of events also be/ have been as likely to bringing down a 777 or 787? I'm trying to get a feel for how much more risky, if at all, the Concorde was than the Boeing and Airbus aircraft of the last 30 years or so. I was once taken to task for suggesting I might have been flying on a "death trap" when I once flew Concorde.
    2
  988. Well since the bible was written by humans, it's hardly surprising the door is narrow.
    2
  989. Ask the average truther how many towers were demolished. None will get it correct.
    2
  990. What figures are bogus? I'd like to learn from the climate skeptics. Every year the global temp record is broken. Is that rubbish? The Antarctic sea ice is now melting much faster than we thought. Is that rubbish? I'd love to see a valid source that explains all this. Are you up to the challenge?
    2
  991. How can it possibly be harmful to disclose fees?
    2
  992.  @PrimeNPC  They did not say they positively identified him at the time of the shooting. Kindly provide link for that (if you have one.) The issue of whether, based on GMs encounter a few night previous, they had some reason for suspicion is mooted by the fact they were conducting an unwise and illegal pursuit of a citizen's arrest to begin with. That's how i see it.
    2
  993. Yeah, mfitz is 100% right, and most truthers also know this. So what possesses you to make a fool of both yourself and the truth mvt? Fine by me of course. As I've always maintained, government shills are as pointless as collapsing skycrapers. You guys do a great job all by yourselves destroying your own credibility.
    2
  994. In the Neighborhood of Make Believe.
    2
  995.  @famousmwofficial8046  Our interests are our personal business. Some people like to read about Victorian quilting. Others Japanese culture. There's no logic to what people find interesting. Supposing I said to you, what's stopping you from shifting your focus to Armadillos?
    2
  996. No, you have no way of knowing that.
    2
  997. I would side with you about the meaning of the remark, but we can't pretend to know for sure. I agree about Arbery, but it's ultimately immaterial to whether the two men had a right to detain him, at least as I see it.
    2
  998. Just be glad he isn't president.
    2
  999.  @Rollmops94  But isn't drugging someone the exact same spirit of rape? Especially if you drug them so you don't HAVE to use violence. It amounts to the same thing,.
    2
  1000.  @wandayoung6992  It was all indeed instigated by an overly macho cop who decided to swear at her before saying "hello there." But once she got going, it seemed way over the top. I think here temperament had something to do with this.
    2
  1001. Probably not that many.
    2
  1002. It's actually a common place of high speed crashes.
    2
  1003. In a nutshell, can you tell us where the other 4,000 or so deaths were?
    2
  1004. Ungentlemanly LOL
    2
  1005.  @MentourPilot  BTW did you know the incorrect locking pin settings were the result of tinkering not more than a few months before the crash? The entire story is told in two different books. That means almost certainly, the airline was responsible for taking an already unsafe plane and making it even more dangerous. As the authors of Destination Disaster wrote, after this adjustment was made, "a sickly child" could have closed the door. And that explains why the plane did not crash until March, 1974.
    2
  1006. Too many of them do, but not all of them. I think personally it's counter productive to offend men in a sweeping way if we want to enlist their support. I think we have to work with men and not treat them as the enemy if we want to maximize change. That doesn't mean we should stop calling them out. Both can go hand in hand.
    2
  1007. Exactly. Especially since he's in favor of jail sentences or worse. CNN and us Westerners aren't proposing jail time for Museveni, even though he's a lot guiltier than gay folks given his murderous human rights record. But this is the nature of our world. People would rather hate gays than murderers. We are indeed a dark dark species. And this video and its many haters is conclusive proof.
    2
  1008. Ridiculous. Even truthers know the pane hit the Pentagon. See the F77 flight path study by Legge and Chandler. "who shares with us from his research the many reasons why he believes it is now established beyond reasonable doubt that AA Flight 77 did in fact hit the Pentagon that day."
    2
  1009. Because they are smarter than you.
    2
  1010.  @cranberrykay3876  Facts: you need(ed) immediate knowledge for citizen's arrest. They did not have immediate knowledge. The enhanced video shows that TM had the gun pointed at AA as he approached the truck. That's armed assault. So while due process may may give the Ms the benefit of the doubt in terms of racist intent, and their probably involuntary defensive reaction to AA rushing them, this is all made moot by the Ms reckless and outrageous endangerment. Based only on a hunch, they create an armed road block and demanded AA stop while assaulting him with a gun. If we allowed any citizen to hunt people down and point guns at them solely on a hunch, how would you feel if you were the hunted? That's why Georgia repealed the law. I think you need to carefully think through this. The devil's in the detail, and the details are what invalidate the Ms behavior. There's no place for this type of behavior in a safe and civil society.
    2
  1011.  @cranberrykay3876  I don't men to sound condescending, and I respecting your point of view. But I have found in Youtube discussions that when we can agree to vigorously analyze one point at a time, progress is more likely. So I hope you are willing to go along with me and resolve this point to both our satisfaction before getting to all the other questions you asked. If I am wrong, which I frequently am, I swallow my pride and admit to error. I hope you have this same spirit.
    2
  1012. Or Donald, a man who invented out of whole cloth the stolen election lie. And all the millions that believed him without an iota of proof.
    2
  1013. The more important lesson is, if you are going to create a flawed exhibit where a child, the main customers after all, can so easily get in, that's pure negligence. The zoo is far more accountable because it had no excuse. By contrast, no matter how perfect a parent is, a 3-year-old can slip away from time to time. That's just the nature of the beast. This is why they refused to prosecute the mom.
    2
  1014. In a country which ranks itself among the most miserable, your compliment is most touching.
    2
  1015. The bible was written by ancient men. How else to explain "God's" wish to execute a cursing child? Go for it.
    2
  1016. The jury, however, got it wrong. They ran roughshod over reasonable doubt, fancying themselves perfect mind readers.
    2
  1017. I side with S Harris, but when he said Trump was the most malignantly selfish person in the history of the world, I couldn't help but think, "How can you possibly know that?"
    2
  1018.  @toxinrazor6489  If God is against gay attraction, why did he create gay attraction?
    2
  1019.  @toxinrazor6489  "have you ever considered the possibility that the stupid theory that the universes created itself and suddenly a bunch of cells just decided to start being alive may be wrong?" Absolutely. It's far more likely the cosmos is eternal, no beginning, no end. The problem with the Bible is it's only one of many possible intelligent designer options. The Bible is obviously a fairy tail to anyone who actually does the research, or bothers to challenge and be curious about the dogma they were taught as youngsters.
    2
  1020.  @toxinrazor6489  More likely, as with every single believer in these parts, you will drop out of conversation when the going gets tough. BUT, I welcome being proved wrong.
    2
  1021. Yes, honest about hatred and intolerance. We in the West, though terrible in some areas, have learned that hatred is not as enlightened a principle as minding one's own business. That's light years ahead of Uganda.
    2
  1022.  @theguy12341  Youtube posts don't have to be answers. Have a great day!
    2
  1023. Well what the hell did he do? Unproven use of force. Otherwise this is a boring case of ordinary teen sex. This case is mass hysteria if there ever was.
    2
  1024.  @MADLADDIOMEDES  Wrong. The proof is all around us: we don't choose our attractions: did you choose your favorite color, for example?
    2
  1025.  @stopcensorship7705  "There is no genetics for gae behavior." No proof of that. As I said, you can't do science. "No proof of immutability." No proof of immutability doesn't mean there's a proof on non-immutability. You didn't study logic, obviously. Not only that, there's plenty of evidence most people cannot change their attractions. I've demonstrated it already. Here are some more examples which show your worldview is all twisted. -Did you choose your favorite color? -Can you choose to change your favorite color? -Can you make yourself get hard by looking at d-ck? -Can you will yourself to find rocks a turn-on? -Did you will yourself to like your favorite ice cream flavor? -Can you choose to fall in love with any person? -Can you choose to like gay porn? -Can you choose to like a movie you don't like? -Can you choose to like a song you hate? -Can you choose to enjoy a food you don't enjoy? Since the answer to all these questions is NO, it shows you have yet to think through the illogic of your biases. Yours is pure wishful thinking based on a poor grasp of reality. If you can't even get the basics of how human attraction works, you cannot be expected to get any of the specifics right. The last three examples above are so blindingly obvious that it involves willful ignorance to deny them. The answers are in the negative virtually by definition. Have fun with your delusions.
    2
  1026.  @stopcensorship7705  If anybody can do science, how come you can't?
    2
  1027.  @stopcensorship7705  You can't do science. You can't do logic. You just proved it again. Keep on proving it with each fresh post. -No single gay gene doesn't mean it can't be heritable. We've gone over this multiple times There is no "lefty" gene, but being a lefty has a significant heritable component, confirmed now by multiple studies. -Even if being gay were entirely due to the environment/ upbringing, it wouldn't prove it's a choice. Witness for example victims of child sexual abuse, who presumably you are so concerned about. Some of these victims lives are ruined. They suffer the trauma for life. They can't "choose" their way out of it. This again shows that you don't do mental processing on a high level. Connected thinking is lacking in your simple formulas. Given these limitations, it's understandable you would choose to say idiot.
    2
  1028.  @stopcensorship7705  More on leftyism -"It was initially thought that a single gene controlled handedness. However, more recent studies suggest that multiple genes, perhaps up to 40, contribute to this trait. Each of these genes likely has a weak effect by itself, but together they play a significant role in establishing hand preference." The idea that only a single gene can explain many heritable traits is by now very out of date. Epigenetics, or changes in gene expression, might also be involved. In that case, there is still heritability, but no single lefty/gay/whatever gene. If you can indeed do science, it's time to update your mental software.
    2
  1029.  @stopcensorship7705  "There is nothing to compare there with gae behavior." We are talking about gay attraction, not gay behavior. Can you get anything right?
    2
  1030.  @MADLADDIOMEDES  The poster who denies gays "choose to be what we are" means our essence, are deepest attractions. Not behavior, which is not what we are, but what we DO. This what gay means in the West: the attraction, not the behavior. The analogies with rape, pedophilia and murder are obviously faulty. Why do you fail to see the obvious distinction? These are behaviors that hurt people by definition. By contrast, consensual behavior in general does not hurt people. You have to give some real proof why it's wrong to act on gay attraction. I'm all ears. And don't tell me about "the gay lifestyle" or AIDS or promiscuous sex. These are not consequences of responsible consensual sex, either gay or straight.
    2
  1031.  @stopcensorship7705  No proof it's immoral. No proof it's indecent. 0 future life: good, we have too many people as is.
    2
  1032.  @stopcensorship7705  "stds is almost exclusively and consistently a gae lifestyle prevalent consequence" Very simple. Just be against those people who have promiscuous sex. No need to indict all gays. Did that radical notion not occur to you?
    2
  1033.  @stopcensorship7705  "Plenty of indecent exposure." Yes, but practicing responsible sex is not part of it.
    2
  1034. It was a blimp: "Writing in the St. Louis Riverfront Times three months after the incident, reporter William Stage said he'd been advised by the FAA that the object reported was an advertising blimp. The American Blimp Company, since acquired by Van Wagner Airship Group, was the largest operator in the region, and still is nationwide" It was on an overnight repositioning flight: "The route flown by the mysterious object that night happens to exactly correspond with the route a blimp would have taken in transit from an event in Indianapolis to either St. Louis or Kansas City, all three of which are among Van Wagner's major locations. They also frequently take VIPs and clients on sightseeing tours, so it shouldn't surprise anyone if the blimp changed directions or looped around. This all happened just outside St. Louis, where Van Wagner often had events."
    2
  1035.  @blackscorpion-h8i  Which part didn't happen?
    2
  1036. Because you have a distorted sense of your own abilities.
    2
  1037. Hatred flourishes.
    2
  1038. It's hard to know what the Egyptians had to gain in this case. But flight 990 was a clear cut case of not taking responsibility for the actions of the copilot in the face of rigorous evidence.
    2
  1039. How is the world made a better place by hounding gays? Is it just the psychological satisfaction of being a snoop?
    2
  1040. They didn't use missiles. You have no proof they used missiles. The debris pattern doesn't support it. The FDR readout doesn't support it. The bulk of witnesses don't support it. If it were shot down, the government would also be dying to take the credit, stung by the charge they were woefully unprepared that day.
    2
  1041. That's true, and now the domestic terrorists are winning.
    2
  1042. If you checked the evidence yourself, you would know that at about 2:30pm that day, chief Nigro of the NYFD ordered the building be emptied due to concerns it would collapse. It was therefore expected hours beforehand. No mental effort should be required to see how a mundane error probably happened. Fox news back in 2005 reported the death of John Paul II the day before it happened. This is mundane reality. Media are always getting things wrong, especially in the chaos of the moment. I can give you over 20 firefighter quotes confirming this, and many others stating the building was fully engulfed in fire. There's also a video of the south facade with smoke pouring out, completely obscuring the south side. Strictly taboo at most truth sites.
    2
  1043. One case doesn't prove much. There have been black men who got similar treatment for rape.
    2
  1044. Tin Pot dictators are disgusting. Especially the ones who decide they will be dictator for life. The obsession with gays tells much. Such twisted priorities.
    2
  1045. This video is about flight 93, not melted beams.
    2
  1046. Yes. And while the Dutch report may have gone a bit overboard, it did provide valuable insight. If one wants to talk bias, we can look at the Spanish report too, their refusal to provide the NTSB with original tapes, or sycrnronized copies, and downplaying the ATC factors.
    2
  1047.  @1058c  re: Sunflower: We are dealing with one of those religious fanatics who has no nuance, cannot grasp the concepts o balance and a sense of basic fairness and proprortion. She/he is just dumping hate all over these forums. When it's her turn to make a mistake, I hope she gets the compassion she lacks.
    2
  1048.  @ObjectionHearsay  Appreciate it. You have affirmed my faith that not all YoutTubers are 13 years old.
    2
  1049.  @leonmills6867  Only of one accepts the bizarre theory that 7 needed to be demolished. That's all based on unsupported speculation.
    2
  1050.  @dingo1150  "You choose to do it." Misses the point. You don't choose the attraction.
    2
  1051.  StopCensorship4---3  And so are straight groomers like yourself.
    2
  1052.  @kitosiriikrit7573  Some will find it disgusting, others won't. Tons of people in the West aren't bothered by gays and have gay friends. "We will always find it disgusting." Some of you will, some of you won't. So don't pretend you speak for all healthy people in the world. You don't.
    2
  1053.  StopCensorship4---3  The world is divided on the question. The more educated, the more likely people are accepting of homosexuality. The countries that are poorest and most miserable are the least accepting. So Africans can sit back and continue eating Yankee Doodle dirt, as far as I'm concerned. That is certainly far more disgusting than gays.
    2
  1054. "And no one saying, "Let's stop and wait for 5 minutes and make sure the other plane takes off." Interestingly enough, the Pan Am CVR indicated the captain stated exactly that. He had wanted to wait for KLM to be airborne before entering the runway. But in the end, for reasons I am not sure of, he relented.
    2
  1055.  @johnstedman4075  "There was nothing inherently dangerous in the arrangements for the Backtracking and the Takeoff arrangements," But air safety is built on redundancy. Two planes being on the same runway for a significant period, one pointing towards the other poised for take off, and visibility hovering around minimum, is not typical practice precisely because, as the Spanish report stated, the practice is "potentially hazardous." I believe the redundancy factor fell below acceptable limits once these two factors became present at the same time. Why add this unnecessary risk? If you were making the rules, would you encourage back-taxiing in thick fog when another plane is present, and when there's no ground radar?
    2
  1056. We know pretty well what happened. Most people figured it out on day one.
    2
  1057. Well, I think there's been a decided lack of balance in this case. You have two extremes. The defenders who say they should have bee acquitted. And the liberal/left/BLM crowed whose reaction is, this was a despicable hate crime calling for life for all three. Even the suggestion they were doing it for sport. To me, the truth is somewhere in the middle. I don't think the third man's actions were anywhere commensurate with the life sentence. The felony murder law is a great injustice. The irony is it's often been used to stick it black accomplices. Now the tables are turned, and perhaps there's some poetic justice in that.
    2
  1058. And conspiratorial anomalies, like: why on earth would anyone other than real terrorists trying to thwart a passenger revolt wish to crash a plane into the middle of nowhere?
    2
  1059.  @stulax1216  The term "vaporized" is a figure of speech. It doesn't mean literally turns to vapor. The engines may be the only thing left after a 563mph crash. And a big chunk of one of them was in the crater, and the photo has been online for decades now. I can't speak definitively about witnesses from the Turnpike, but on Google maps the crash site is 5-6 miles from the highway, and the plane itself was coming in from the Northwest, which wold be the opposite direction of the highway. There were however 12 witnesses or so the final seconds, and two who saw the moment of impact. I just actually read that in the recent book on flight 93. I don't pretend to have all the answers, and thee crash site is unusual to be sure.
    2
  1060. Really? He could have easily killed someone.
    2
  1061.  @110clarity  But things are indeed happening to us. We are in the beginning stages of civil war, and Trump is already the head of domestic terrorism by even the most neutral of standards. He supports violence. He supported the thugs who trashed our Capital building. He routinely aligns himslef with violent groups. What is it that you can't comprehend? You cannot call violence by its real name? The real question is, do you support violence or democracy? Terrorism or civilization?
    2
  1062. I agree she might well be bisexual. But I see little evidence that 30-40% of women are bisexual.
    2
  1063. This is so lame. These devices are "designed to emulate human conversation — and thus, human stories. Breaking under stress is a common narrative arc; this particular aspect of machine behavior, while fascinating, seems less indicative of sentience, and more just another example of exactly how ill-equipped AI guardrails are to handle the tendencies of the underlying tech." Seriously, there is no model or code yet for consciousness that we have identified. You don't get sentience from feeding information into a computer. Does he not get this?
    2
  1064. Yes, it's refreshing when people admit to being thugs and murderers. Musevini is no exception.
    2
  1065.  StopCensorship2-wh3nm  Hello again. You obviously don't know God. He allegedly created the universe and everything in it. That, by definition, must includes gay attraction. God COULD have left gay attraction out of His creation. Then men would be unable to summon attraction to other men. Just as man cannot (generally speaking) summon sexual attraction to rocks or beetles. But then again, true believers do not understand the inherent contradictions in their alleged God. For example, if God were against poo poo sex, he would not have created heterosexuals either, as about 1/3 of them admit to having practiced this behavior in the previous year. Or even better, God, knowing all things past present and future, could have foreseen which people would choose poo poo sex, and eliminated them from his creation.
    2
  1066.  @LoireValleyChateaux  Oops, I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about the Arbery killing. Yes, an obvious hate crime, even if race wasn't the motive. You have to have hate in your heart even if you mow down members of your own race.
    2
  1067.  @akd2227  Oh yes, I think it's biology. Surveys shows women have always chosen men with fame, status and big muscles, and most of all money.
    2
  1068. Wow. Just curious, a lot of people come on here and say the KLM pilot deliberately scoffed at the rules and decided to take off knowing he did not have clearance. The few aviation professionals I've mentioned this to have told me this is virtually unthinkable. Do you agree? Thanks.
    2
  1069.  @jumboJetPilot  Thank you for your comment!
    2
  1070. Well God is the biggest sinner. As the ultimate creator of everything, we have Him to thank for inventing the very concept of evil.
    2
  1071. But on the issue of homosexuality he's guilty of a crime against humanity.
    2
  1072.  @mikeclayton5182  It's not that he detests it. It's that he supports life in prison for them. That's man's inhumanity to man. Are we at least agreed on that?
    2
  1073. PSA flight 1771: no tail no wings no engines: must have been a fake.
    2
  1074.  @yugaeimthicc6400  And that's a violation of the Golden Rule: don't do unto others what you would not want done unto you. One of the most basic principles of justice, and not just in the West. Since you wouldn't want your fellow citizens telling you how to live your life, you violate the Golden Rule by junking that principle when it comes to others. Think about it very carefully. It means one standard for you, and a different standard for gays.
    2
  1075.  @yugaeimthicc6400  Well, it's a difference in values. I believe that kindness and compassion are more enlightened values than violence. In Uganda, they use violence against gays. If that's OK with you, then so be it.
    2
  1076.  @yugaeimthicc6400  "but using violence is not that will be something i will agree with you" The only thing I have a real problem with is jailing gays, which happens or used to happen in Uganda. That's a form of violence. Jail is violence. What consenting adults do in the bedroom is not. Not sure if you agree with me, bit I hope you draw the line there, as I do.
    2
  1077.  @yugaeimthicc6400  Well, violence is defined as the use of force. So maybe what you are saying is that in your mind, some violence is justified? I can see where you are coming from, but ultimately I see this as indifferent. Love, romance, sex, is a hugely important part of most people's lives. To deny that to anyone seems cruel and insensitive. Do you not care about the emotional well being of gay people?
    2
  1078.  @yugaeimthicc6400  Do you agree gays do not choose their attraction?
    2
  1079. Mike is right, it was found before the collapse. Even so, paper items surviving even fiery plane crashes is nothing new.
    2
  1080. Because most people, despite all their sheep-like tendencies, are actually better at the basics of common sense than the 911 skeptics. While some Grand Conspiracies may well be true, most of these "conspiracy types" are rarely content with just one conspiracy. To them every event is a false flag. This says much more about the temperament of the person making the claims, than the event itself. A very good discussion of this can be found in Jonathan Kay's: Among the Truthers.
    2
  1081.  @stopcensorship7705  Your one-liners are getting very boring very quickly. How about something new: like a rigorous scientific proof of the claims you make. I guess you aren't up to the task?
    2
  1082. I think there's a case for invading Iraq, given its use of WMD on its on people. But not really on the grounds of 9/11, since there has been no convincing evidence Iraq was behind 9/11. In addition, at least 100K deaths, and more likely many 100s of K deaths resulted. Does that make the US look like a responsible power, or one that continues to confirm to the repeated criticisms of a nation playing God, and shrugging its shoulders at the deaths it causes? I have only thought about these issues fleetingly, but it causes me increasing discomfort, even if I feel much safer now than before 9/11.
    2
  1083. A lot of bizarre women too.
    2
  1084. Roddie was different, IMO. There was a complete absence of communication, as far as we know, and proven by phone records, between him and the McMichaels before the chase started. Roddie didn't bring any guns. Unlike bank robbers, he had no idea what was going on, or what was planned. He made a very stupid decision to trust his neighbor's judgement. Life sentences should be strictly reserved for the worst case behavior, which this was clearly not. The felony-murder rule, and the rage of the moment blotted out true justice. This was payback time, case closed. Another telling chapter on the dark side of human nature.
    2
  1085.  user-ol6zy2pb9b  That's absolute nonsense thru and thru. The goal of Te--ism has always been to MAXIMIZE fear, NOT cheer people up. It's so absurd on the face of it. It's another example how so much of this discussion is dominated by people who cannot grasp the nature of reality. They grasp at any straw, no matter how self-evidently preposterous. And to be clear, I am not saying you necessarily. So don't take it personally. I am sure you are very well meaning.
    2
  1086.  user-ol6zy2pb9b  In addition, there is no convincing evidence of a fake crash, and mounds of evidence for a real crash. I challenge you to debate each and every claim related to flight 93. And if you are really serious, you would acknowledge any proven error demonstrated by me. And needless to say, vice versa. Are you up for it? cheers
    2
  1087.  @alasarcher400  No he isn't. Intent matters. Would you agree?
    2
  1088.  @alasarcher400  The fact that someone's armed does not speak to the likelihood there's intent to kill. You are doing this all wrong. The justice system is supposed to give the benefit of any doubt to the accused, not take it away from him. The same is true of the Ms themselves. The assumption of malice murder is precisely that. An assumption without a proof beyond reasonable doubt.
    2
  1089.  @mdjb49  The key question mark is, since Travis did not shoot until Arbery turned and attacked him, was Travis' intent malice murder, or instinctive self-preservation? This, I feel, is where the jury overstepped its bounds.
    2
  1090.  @Nottooserious69688  Reported in many places. Tiny body fragments, an estimated 8% of the total passengers, is how Wally Miller, the County coroner ID'd the victims.
    2
  1091. Amen
    2
  1092. Yes, that about sums up the truth movement.
    2
  1093. Absolutely, spot on. They were both part of that stubborn notion called reality. It doesn't go away by citing bad evidence, for example the idea that flight 93 makes even an iota of sense as a fake. Or that paper could not possibly survive the crash of flight 11 or 175.
    2
  1094. Yes, gettyimages has a whole slide show. As one of the books put it, the remains looked like they had been carved "as if by some monstrous butcher." Because there was little fire, and because the plane was nearly level at impact, there were more square feet of mangled, grotesque remains than probably any other commercial air crash. Imagine being one of the many young women volunteering for the Red Cross that day, thinking maybe they would be providing some warm blankets for the survivors. They are probably still living with PTSD.
    2
  1095. That's humanity for you. Steeped in snoopiness.
    2
  1096.  @stopcensorship7705  Finally, you admit I never chose to be gay.
    2
  1097.  @stopcensorship7705  Let me know when you have that scientific proof gay attraction is chosen.
    2
  1098. Nope, sorry, wrong.
    2
  1099. TK 981 did not make a hard landing.
    2
  1100. why SOME choose the bear.
    2
  1101. I doubt most think it's OK. But there are degrees of being against it to be sure.
    2
  1102.  @johnmas9221  She admitted she made amistake. You don't understand the nature of evidence, but this is Youtube, so I give you a pass. :)
    2
  1103.  @theduck1539  Oh, I was unaware that a question is an opinion. But thank you. You too.
    2
  1104. Agreed, but just a bit of overkill in the case of Bryan. Oh yes, his behavior was outrageous too. But not provably a murderer.
    2
  1105. Yes, we should forget Churchill's genocide of Indians because it never happened. You have no credible source.
    2
  1106. Real men don't kill and torture their own citizens.
    2
  1107. No proof. So why even bother posting.
    2
  1108. Define murder for us. If you mean illegal killing, that's wrong in the many places where it's legal. If you mean morally unjustified killing, there is no objective proof of that. It's simply what YOU personally think.
    2
  1109.  @RicArmstrong  Oh no. that's bespeaks to a lack of research. The web is loaded with accounts of the 1st responders, some 1100 of them from 73 different agencies. You have not bothered to find even a single one???? They found 1500 body fragments from which the passengers IDs were made. The state trooper who found part of an engine in a catch basin; as mentioned, fuselage fragments, black boxes, engine core. Yes, you are right that in the first few moments, they could not find much debris. But within hours of combing the area, they found the cockpit in the trees, the body fragments, th strong stench of jet fuel was everywhere. You are a victim of selective evidence, and an inability to question your personal intuition and beliefs.
    2
  1110.  @Doubie.  You're right. I was thinking more in terms of Air Canada's obviously deficient approach procedures. But perhaps I shouldn't complain, given how air safety has skyrocketed to undreamt of heights in the last few decades, at least among the 1st tier carriers.
    2
  1111. What makes you think they couldn't?
    2
  1112.  @bryant071  Don't just make assumptions. Show me evidence they could not work from altitude.
    2
  1113. ​ @bryant071  Because you wrote "you think back in 2001 you could use the cellphones at 15,25,35 thousand feet in the air? oh and traveling at 500 mph or faster!!" But I digress. Proof: -flight 93 itself. I say it's a proof for the obvious reason that it makes no sense for the government to have invented irrelevant phone calls. What purpose is served? The midair heroes drama is a nice touch, but 100% useless and irrelevant as a contributory pretext to war. I don't see people who come here asking these questions (not saying you) by first stopping and asking themselves, "do fake calls make sense when looking at the Big Picture?" Flight 93 only works (whether US-sponsored or not) as a real h-jacking gone wrong. Do you disagree with that? -We have telecom experts who say it was possible. Don't be shy. Try calling one yourself. -We also have a study conducted in 2003 proving that cell calls were connected at all stages of flight. The study did not confirm how long the connections lasted, but certainly leaves wide open the probability of connections long enough to have a conversation. Details and links if interested.
    2
  1114.  @kowen5499  Spot on. There is something seriously wrong with mankind. This level of bad judgement is continuing proof of T. S. Eliot's (?) remark that "humankind cannot bear very much reality." The truth mvt and indeed most of the other easily refuted nut job CTs are as spectacular a confirmation one could have of his observations.
    2
  1115. But I think we should be careful not to villainize the Turkish people per se. It is said that the western Turks, especially, are known for their hospitality. It is the government that should not be trusted.
    2
  1116. Yes, look up Operation Northwood, a plan that never happened, just like operation 9/11. Paper items surviving massive plane impacts and fire, let's see here TK 981, ET 302, AC 621 - a whole doll survived that one in fact...... 911 truth movement - a disgrace to the intellect
    2
  1117.  @zayjones2885  Sure. Racism was institutionalized by whites, primarily in the US, but also Britain, Australia, and of course Nazi Germany. It was and still is an ideology designed to oppress black people, and other disliked groups, and keep them from encroaching on the power and privilege of whites. This is the primary reason for the increasing threat of civil war in the US. But there have always been whites who have sided with blacks and people of color, who were in civil rights marches of the 60s. There is no doubt white racism has been the most damaging form of racism over the last few centuries. But to condemn the entire "white race" is to adopt the same repulsive thought process that leads one down the path of more hate.
    2
  1118.  @Atilla963  Hello, I am not an expert, and like you, I can only speculate on these claims. Like many complex events, there will likely be a number of factors. From what I have read, the Armenians were far more vulnerable to begin with than the Greeks and other groups: Unlike Greece, they had no mother country to act as a direct advocate and to put pressure on the Turkish government/s to stop the killings. 2nd, unlike the Greeks or Americans, the Armenians were spread out along major swaths of Turkey, and that has been said to be the most threatening element in terms of Turkey's desire to create a Turkish nationalist state. If Armenia demanded independence, it would mean much of Turkey's land being given up. When the major massacres were said to have occurred, Turkey was falling apart at the seems with all of the attacks against it, and there would understandably be fear and paranoia at this point, of the real possibility of the Ottoman Empire crumbling. Indeed the Allied powers were intent on carving up Anatolia after the end of WW 1. When a nation is desperate for its survival, it can encourage extreme behavior.
    2
  1119. While a bit extreme, it does capture the basic essence. Hassling, or jailing or condemning gays is, in principle, hypocricy if you are simultaneously telling the West to mind its own business. Uganda want's to mind their gays. This is called being a snoop in my country.
    2
  1120. That may be because he isn't one. The use of force was unproven, as you must have seen. Otherwise this is just teen sex with a 3 year age difference. Not considered rape in many if not most states, as we reform our laws to weed out hysteria and replace it with common sense.
    2
  1121.  @CATSWITHKYLA  Yes, you are correct about engines being indestructible, at least the core. A big chunk of each engine was found. One in a catch basin 900 ft away; the other in the crater itself, of which a picture is easily found in any basic google search. Seriously, if you do the most simple of google searches, such as "flight 93" and "engine", the very first pic is of the engine part. "You are trying so hard to make points" Not only that, I AM making them. By contrast you cannot even do a basic google search.
    2
  1122.  @gjustg1540  Yes it can. PSA flight 1771 was even more "nothing". Just confetti on a hillside. First responders thought they were dealing with a small plane carrying newspapers. Once again, reality has outsmarted you. Not saying that to be insulting, just saying our intuitions are often wrong. Flight 1771 makes this abundantly clear.
    2
  1123. The truth movement has always been a fraud, I totally agree.
    2
  1124. Not directed to me, but if I may: There are some, yes. But a very small minority. As a limo driver I often went up to crews waiting for their hotel vans and asked them their opinion of the "Hanjour maneuver." There was one pilot who had doubts. The others were in full agreement this was entirely possible. 911pilots 911pilotsfor truth has a pretty questionable track record, IMO. Tell me, have they yet to admit their FDR readout of flight 77 was thoroughly debunked by other members of the truth mvt?
    2
  1125. It's hardly a gem if you read Bernd Kai von Hoesslin's "Wasted Warnings." A whistleblower and pilot for ET, his book is a vivid glimpse into the inner workings of a highly corrupt airline that tried its hardest to deny deficiencies and never take responsibility, as was the case with their flight 409, 2nd guessing investigators who clearly found the real cause of that crash.
    2
  1126.  @blmtrejureydepourtment5899  Thank you for your reply. Yes, I am trying to be balanced here, even if I turn out to be wrong. I think this is where it gets a bit tricky. My interpretation of the Georgia law is that immediate does not mean yesterday, or in this case, two days ago. It's also common usage. If the police ask you, "did you see X leave the scene immediately?" And you say, "No, I saw him in a house two nights ago." That meaning's pretty clear. It's a very clear distinction being made between immediate - as in seconds or minutes, versus an encounter some 36 hours before. That's how I think common sense would approach this.
    2
  1127. Her strong point isn't public speaking. While I thought she did reasonably well, she tends to ramble endlessly which is a turn off.
    2
  1128.  @JRR1804  And it says in the Bible that anyone who works on the Sabbath "shall be put to death." This is your murderous God speaking.
    2
  1129.  @hge1895  Please cite the evidence.
    2
  1130.  @textbox6648  The video concluded the plane crashed before Cheney's order went out. The two fighter planes were unarmed, making a shoot down impossible. The video concluded the passengers brought the plane down. Do you have problems with listening comprehension?
    2
  1131.  @mikebyrd8278  Yup. Talk about mentally challenged. This person can't even comprehend a 4 minute video he's promoting.
    2
  1132. What possible alternative truth is to be derived from a useless plane crash into the middle of nowhere?
    2
  1133. Wonderful and wise post. But not just men. Too many women embrace the toxic system, dying to marry the high status alpha males. The number of women who voted for Trump is rather shocking.
    2
  1134.  @zsoltsz2323  I agree with you. I believe that the standard was/is at least 2 instrument back ups for every critical instrument, for example. In the case of the DC-10, there were so many critical failures of redundancy, it's quite amazing. Perhaps the least known aspect of the crash was Turkish Airlines' rogue maintenance. Undoubtedly fed up with all the delays the door was causing, not long before the Paris crash, they re-rigged the locking pins to a position so unsafe that "even a sickly child could have defeated the system." They also extinguished cockpit lights that warned of an improperly closed door. From that point on, the plane's fate was sealed. As for MD, early on they blamed the crash on "an illiterate baggage handler." Maybe that was the most outrageous statement they ever made. Yet another interesting overlooked factor. When the 1st generation of widebodies was in the design phase, a crude mathematical mistake was made. It was a crucial industry-wide miscalculation that affected the 747, DC-10 and L-1011. The regulating body did not take into account something known as "size effect." "If an airplane's size is doubled, the inside air volume is not doubled but cubed, resulting in eight times as much air pressure." This simple mistake was yet another element in the chain of fatal events.
    2
  1135. You have neither the wisdom nor the evidence nor the judgement to prove your case.
    2
  1136. There's plenty of error in God's economy. The flood = mass murder.
    2
  1137. Who cares. What matters more is he's an unhinged demagogue in love with power. How else to explain that after 4 years of everyone telling the former president the Biden victory was sound, even all his closest friends and Fox news admitted these claims were all lies. AND without a SHRED of evidence still pushes his Big Fat Lie. Please explain how a sensible person is supposed to react.
    2
  1138. 20 years is also literal fraud. He participated in at least 51 ra-pes. That = 20 years x 51.
    2
  1139. Oh yes there was, and it only shows again how uncritical people are in their thinking. They think they know everything.
    2
  1140. Oh they always find somebody, especially with 230 to choose from, how could they not? Just let the imagination do its thing - this is the essential ingredient in any exciting conspiracy: a loose mind.
    2
  1141. If you have seriously studied this accident for so long, you should be able to see why the claim his ego caused the crash is just speculation.
    2
  1142.  @danmilosevich  Of course not. Youtube is the perfect setting for mindless bots.
    2
  1143. It as a bit of a let down, as only a small fraction was about Gacey. But I agree with you.
    2
  1144. Why ask when the truthers are everywhere, like the invasion of the body snatchers, or swarms of mosquitos from which there is no escape. The fact is, as a whole the truth movement has created one of the most shockingly stu-id set of theories ever invented. Let's stick with the more sensible ones.
    2
  1145. ​ @Taketimeout3  Start with this PBS Frontline article: Google this: "But the case against Libya has never been universally accepted."
    2
  1146.  @Taketimeout3  Key passage for me: "Megrahi’s defenders say there is still more to consider. In an interview with FRONTLINE filmmaker Ken Dornstein, John Ashton, who worked as a defense investigator during Megrahi’s first appeal and has written three books arguing that Megrahi was innocent, said the origin of the timer used in the bomb is questionable. According to metallurgists hired by the defense in 2009, the timer’s circuit board was a different color and coated in a different substance than those designed by MEBO, the Swiss company that the timer was linked back to and that had a relationship with the Libyans. This discrepancy “breaks the link with those timers, breaks the link with Libya, breaks the link with Megrahi,” said Ashton. "
    2
  1147. Hypocrisy: preaching one thing, doing another. Example: demanding the West not tell us what to do; telling homosexuals what to do.
    2
  1148. Well I personally believe "both sides" of this debate are wrong. But there is no way you can condone Travis' aiming his gun at Arbery when he was still some 10 seconds away from the truck. That's a felony offense, and if Arbery had been armed with a legal concealed weapon, he would have had the right to shoot Travis dead. That's the part the defenders of the Ms forget, or cannot process in a sensible way.
    2
  1149. Obviously had there been no bomb there would have been no accident. But I tend to side with user-m8ix because in theory, a bomb could also save lives: imagine a crash that otherwise would have happened were it not for a bomb closing down the airport. Then would we credit the terrorists for saving lives? Obviously not, because we would never have known the crash would otherwise have happened. But the more important point is, if we did have such knowledge, we would not wish to praise terrorists.
    2
  1150. You haven't the slightest evidence to support that statement. That's the beauty of Youtube, where responsibility is optional.
    2
  1151.  @mikebyrd8278  There are certain people you wonder if it's worth wasting discussion on. Like James Fetzer. She's in that category.
    2
  1152.  @tayc9855  But what it is not is proof.
    2
  1153. No proof, sorry you lose.
    2
  1154. But I don't see any of that in this case, do you?
    2
  1155. "Mom should have just said ..." If you were a responsible parent. who's side would you be on?
    2
  1156. One of the major themes of skeptical claims is humans aren't competent enough: to build the pyramids, or the Easter Is Statues, go to the Moon in 1969; or 911 being carried out by cavemen. One of the ironies is the alternative narratives, as pointed out here, are frequently more absurd: that the US government could plant explosives, perfectly placed and timed despite being subject to exploding fuel, or manage to get most most to think they saw a missile rather than an AA 757; or have hundreds or thousands of people keeping a 50 year secret, not even admitting it on their deathbed.
    2
  1157. That's because these theories have a strong appeal to 10-year-olds.
    2
  1158. Understands cruelty? You got it.
    2
  1159. I think when people say KLM was the root cause they are failing to consider the bigger picture. Such as both airlines allowing the grossly inadequate Tenerife as an alternate? Such as directing two planes onto active runway, one pointed towards the other poised for take off. The problem with saying it's all and only KLM is that it teaches us nothing except that anyone can make a mistake under stress.
    2
  1160. They showed a picture of an engine core being fork lifted out of the crater. A State Trooper found part of an engine in a catch basin 900 feet away. They IDd most passengers through body fragments. The wing marks are clearly seen imprinted in the grass. How could you get all of this so wrong?
    2
  1161.  @codeblood2000  Either way, pro-life adherents have yet to come up with a knock down unassailable argument.
    2
  1162. That said, the punishment was excessive if you go by standards of due process, and proportionality. Especially for William Bryan, whose sentence is almost as much of an outrage as his contribution to the crime. I would agree to wave this opinion if you and others would concede that felony murder laws are barbaric anachronisms having no place in a civilized justice system. They have done far more to harm black people than did these men, as sickening as they are. THAT would be real justice.
    2
  1163. One has to go by the totality of evidence. Talaat and others in the CUP said many things that were pure lies. They constantly made and then broke their promises. There can be no doubt the totality of evidence is beyond any rational debate. This was an intended annihilation of a people.
    2
  1164. I did Maui
    2
  1165. Too bad God doesn't exist. But if he does, shame on Him for creating such a violent-oriented species as humankind. An enlightened being should know better.
    2
  1166.  @scottlavalle  No you don't, don't try playing physics expert with me. You well know there are two sides to the physics. One side, the conspiracy side, refuses to this day to publish their results in a science journal. The other, the consensus of the worldwide structural engineering community, is this was a gravity collapse, and which has been confirmed by a several peer review articles. But either way, the science is complex. You may have deluded yourself into thinking it's easy. If it were this easy to refute, the government would not have been stupid enough to embrace it. This is the death knell for so many conspiracy theorists. They imagine themselves uniquely gifted at scientific revelation. The rest of us, the scientific community at large, and the government, are blitheringly stupid idiots. Such arrogance is typical of the conspiracy mindset. So it's very easy to do. Submit a science article to a science journal (Oh no! he says, the whole scientific community is in on the conspiracy!) Nothing is stopping you. Then report back to us.
    2
  1167.  @supermanepic15  Actually, I now recall, I don't think they were trying to destroy the buildings in 2001 as they believed even crashing airliners into them would not likely cause collapse. That's all I can really offer. Needless to say they were delighted when they did collapse.
    2
  1168. What would you do if you were gay?
    2
  1169. You don't always see large pieces when the impact is so intense. The best example may be PSA flight 1771. All first responders saw was confetti sprinkled on a hillside. Nothing remotely resembling a plane. Those of us who studied air crashes long before 911 were bemused at the self-styled crash experts that sprang up the day after 9/11. Their ignorance is confirmed whenever they go to respected air safety forums such as PPRuNe. They are hard to tolerate because they haven't a clue about commercial aviation, safety and otherwise. Try it out and see how far you get.
    2
  1170.  @sterdezy1569  Because a lot of people are as unenlightened as he is. You need to get your nose out of other people's business and live your own life instead.
    2
  1171. This is an unspoken truth, I think. Yes, men may view marriage as a means of having reliable sex. But women are no less blunt abut their needs, witness today's dating sites. The man is regarded first and foremost as a personal bank teller.
    2
  1172.  @sterlingprice5100  Well I do thank you for that honest perspective. Your wishes are respected. Whatever happens I hope the ideals of this country will survive.
    2
  1173. Another defective opinion.
    2
  1174.  @loudmusickillsthepain648  If you want to have a discussion that's respectful to the facts, I'm up for it. So I take it you are referring to a different video than the one everyone's seen?
    2
  1175.  @loudmusickillsthepain648  I'm a little confused. You are saying the original unedited version shows the camera moving all the way to the front of the truck and actually sees Arbery yanking the gun?
    2
  1176. Yes, this obsession with parents-not-being perfect is the oddest part of this affair. The ZOO was the negligent one. Zoos are children oriented. They have an obligation to make them safe, and to anticipate imperfect parents, as no parent is perfect. Another example of the absolute absurd times in which we live.
    2
  1177. Ethiopian Airlines did everything they could to avoid responsibility, as they always do. If you haven't come across it yet, I highly recommend the book "Wasted Warnings" by Bernd Kai von Hoesslin, a former pilot for ET who documents the airline's long list of negligent practices, and exploding the myth the airline has a great safety record.
    2
  1178.  @AnetaMihaylova-d6f  Not according to ET
    2
  1179. The evidence of a 757 hitting the Pentagon is massive and beyond doubt. You're the one that's been brainwashed. By carefully protecting yourself from critical feedback by reading only truther sites. When you isolate yourself from all the other sources, you lose touch with reality. I recommend the book Firefight, which is massive documentation of the 1st responders accounts of the plane crash at the Pentagon. Don't come back with the government hired hundreds of fake responders and firefighters. No one will believe you. cheers
    2
  1180. Most of it was buried, just like Ethiopian flight 302.
    2
  1181. Yes, this is covered in some detail by a few of the books that came out shortly after the crash. What Peter may not have emphasized is that this maintenance tampering was proven to have happened not more than a few months before the crash, which almost certainly implicates the airline. This included turning the locking pin the wrong way, and permanently disconnecting a warning light for the door. No doubt this was done because of the repeated delays the aircraft was causing. The only indication the baggage handler had telling him the door was not secure was the amount of force required to close it. He and everyone one else was well aware never to force the door shut. But by turning the lock pins the opposite of what was supposed to have been done, the door became so easy to close that, as the authors of Destination Disaster, put it, even a "sickly child" could have defeated the system. So on that day, the door closed, if anything, a little easier than usual, thus making the crash inevitable. Highly recommended reading BTW. IMO the greatest air crash investigation book ever written. The recent follow up by Samme Chittum goes further behind the scenes and reads like a suspense novel, as it details the "undercover" detective work of one of the original authors in sneaking into the room where boxes of documents were stored, revealing the smoking guns that were damning to the company. cheers
    2
  1182. Many of them do need to do that. But so do all of us because, even though white racism has been far more dangerous to society than any other, the things which motivated it exist in all of us on some level. We must always be on our guard to recognize our actions, and that a lot of humanity's racism is unconscious.
    2
  1183. I would say that should potentially be factored in , yes. But it depends on why she recanted.
    2
  1184. BUT, if you see someone who looks unmistakenly male - suit, beard, biceps, deep voice, hairy arms, thin hips, are you going to call that person a woman?
    2
  1185. Biden case is no comparison with Trump. A long wiki article on Tara Reide revealed she lacked credibility. Her acquaintances felt deceived and duped by her, and an investigation found no pattern of sexual assault by Biden.
    2
  1186. Another automated bot post.
    2
  1187. Except that they didn't.
    2
  1188. In the US, that conversation may have gone to an extreme. Personally, there's only so much such that conversation can have an effect: you have to be a different kind of person to begin with to think this stuff is OK.
    2
  1189. He was, but they do work for some, including me.
    2
  1190.  StopCensorship4--1  Well since most groomers are heterosexual men, maybe you should go after them instead.
    2
  1191.  @SohamMehta-bg3ds  OK sir, show me data that gays are more likely to be groomers.
    2
  1192. That's utter nonsense. At Youtube, anything goes. Museveni is Uganda's leading butcher, worst mass murderer in the country's history. Under his security forces, who were never prosecuted, 54 protesters shot to death during the last election there. And you are going to make up stories about gays in California. Your priorities are completely screwed up.
    2
  1193.  @jbbrown1436  I condemn all violence, not selectively the way you do.
    2
  1194. No matter how many people ask, you guys refuse to cough up the proof. That kinda says it all. People who declare truths without even coming close to backing up their claims, this is exactly what makes a CTist. Big fat ego, zero understanding of how to evaluate evidence, totally empty upstairs. Cough up the proof or shut up.
    2
  1195.  @tj_6964  But the gay porn "community" also shows porn may not necessarily be primarily about dehumanizing women. If it were so, then you would expect to see gay men being more respectful in their porn videos to the men. But I see the exact same themes in both: raunchy, sadistic sex, dehumanization, humliation. But I don't think that has much to do with trying to abuse or degrade themselves as a class of people. Do you?
    2
  1196.  @edivimaro1975  Since I'm against the criminalization of drugs, I would give black teenagers a pass too.
    2
  1197. WRONG. Black boxes for both flight 93 and 77 were found. How difficult is it to get the basic facts right???
    2
  1198.  @Racinrasslinfan36  Now that you've been called out on your mistakes, you understandably change the subject. Nice try.
    2
  1199. Turkish Airlines has come a long way. While it's probably true they will not compare to a US airline, or BA, they cannot in any way shape or form be compared to the 1970s, where it was one crash after another. But then, the same was true of Pan Am.
    2
  1200. The Tetley in this case: mundane media mistake since they were told hours before the collapse was expected. Nothing terribly hot here.
    2
  1201. Not a sensible analysis IMO. I have also watched flight 93 for two decades now. There is no one I know of who said they saw a missile hit the plane. The closet I saw was a women who said she saw a smaller plane, then broke down crying. Is that the one? She never said she actually saw a missile strike the plane. Virtually all the debris was found in or near the crater. There were only two other small debris fields, one about a mile away, which can easily be explained by the blast forces, and one some 8 miles away, upwind from the site. It contained only lite weight material, some paper and insulation. This is similar to what happened in two other crashes, thus proving that such material can be carried by air currants after having been blasted into the air, much like a thermal.
    2
  1202. So what DID happen then?
    2
  1203. I respect the Ugandan people and their right to their beliefs. I don't respect Museveni's laws, or rather, lawlessness. Like the 54 protestors shot dead at election time. Where torture and violence are the norm: Uganda's most celebrated mass murderer. Far more concerning than gay rights.
    2
  1204. Well some people have, but you're right in general. Soccer game or not, it is certainly viable to say that pushing an aircraft onto an active runway, and then having the clouds move in, resulted in a needlessly hazardous situation. So while I agree captain van Zanten was the primary cause, from a systems point of view, I would argue the controllers actions were just as central, and also more avoidable. Under stress people often fail at their task. By contrast, adopting a more stringent protocol involves the luxury of time. Certainly more than the few brief minutes the KLM captain faltered.
    2
  1205. Right! But even factoring in the 737Max, the irony is that commercial flying is now orders of magnitude safer than it was back then. Unlike the medical establishment, airline profits nowadays depend ever more on safety. Back in the 70s, and excluding the commuter/regionals, the US airlines had one or more major crashes every year, resulting in over 2,000 deaths. In the last 20 years there has been but a single fatality despite a vast increase in air traffic. Most people have no clue how safer the skies are today.
    2
  1206. Most of it was buried inside the crater. And before you open your B-- M---- and say impossible, here's a quote from Northwest flight 710: "But the one hundred foot fuselage itself had disappeared entirely. In the crater, buried twelve feet under this smoking cauldron, was what was left of Northwest Airlines flight 710 - and the 33 men, 21 woman and 8 children and 1 infant aboard. . . . The residue of flight 710 was something even the most veteran investigators had never come across before. There were no bodies." Have a lovely day.
    2
  1207. Do you have the degrees that he doesn't?
    2
  1208.  @megangwilliam5343  Thank you, I can see the validity in that. Now in the case of "deaf person," in the plural, my replacement might be "hearing impaired." Does that seem OK to you, even though it's still in the form of "impaired person?"
    2
  1209. You think like a normal adult. By contrast these comments are indicative of 10-year-old logic. Such as the truly minboggling claim that the government chose to base its alleged plot on fake physics. Tell me, can a rational adult really entertain something that stupid?
    2
  1210. This would not have happened had God not included it in His plan, since he knows all things past present and prospective.
    2
  1211. @Peep0000 I don't debate 3-year-olds, and their need for nonstop attention. Have fun talking to yourself.
    2
  1212.  @Tej-b7b  Since no one knows what your opinion is, that's a rather useless comment.
    2
  1213.  @pluckybellhop66  I didn't say that though.
    2
  1214. Suicide is actually legal in all 50 states. "Seems counter intuitive..." It seems that way, but I will give a guess that the idea behind it is that suicidal people are in an irrational state. By contrast the person who assists is rational but evil. So the idea may be the evil component. Suicidal person is not acting on evil, but the person assisting is. Just speculating.
    2
  1215.  @worldofpaisen  This is definitely up for debate. But whatever the truth is on that score, there is no doubt that jailing gay people for life is an example of man's inhumanity to man.
    2
  1216.  @worldofpaisen  "so if cursing your parents is a sin which it is, then logically that would lead to death." That is just the point I'm making. A moral being does not propose death for a cursing child. Nor does he "kind of agree with it." This Morality 101. If we can't get beyond that, then there's no pot t in an enlightened discussion. No offense, but If you think witchcraft exists, then all semblance of a serious discussion is a fantasy at this point.
    2
  1217.  @worldofpaisen  I don't have all the answers -just some of them. As far as accusing God, it doesn't matter what context we parse that death for a cursing child passage. In any context it's 100% immoral to speak in those terms. Would you say to your child that death is an appropriate reference in any way shape or form if they cursed you? OK, so God is God, and He has a reason for saying that. Of all the enduring and loving things a truly omniscient and loving Being could say, there are millions more enlightened comments than you and I could think of, no? I propose that this comment, along with all the other odious ones, could only get into a God-based bible is if men put it in there - a corruption of an otherwise godly text perhaps. And if you want to talk about having all the answers, isn't that precisely the essence of a true believer? "It's literally not up for debate" seems no less certain than some of the things I've said. cheers, and I like the fact that for a biblical type you seem somewhat more tolerant of "interrogation" than some others. And for the record, I don't deny a spiritual realm depending on what is meant by that. And if you want me to concede witchcraft may exist, yes anything's possible. But here I'm going by probable evidence, for which none exists for witchcraft. So for example, if your defense in court is that witchcraft made you kill someone, serious people will not accept that. That's what I'm getting at. In practical everyday terms, witchcraft is not a serious contention. Do you have even a smidgeon of evidence for its existence?
    2
  1218.  @Bl00obs  Yes, in this game of holding the police accountable, which of course they should be, why do we never hear the victims' mother/father say, "I am sorry for my son's conduct, which put your lives at risk. You both need to be held accountable." That would be a class act. Though I can understand that's asking a lot of a grieving mother. And a nation in the grip of the absurd.
    2
  1219.  @aoia691  Never happened this fast before, so that is pure speculation based on what??
    2
  1220. But not as bull as the notion that the government faked a hijacking for the sole purpose of an irrelevant feel-good hero story. If we are to reject the official account, we need something serious to replace it with. Brain-dead theories fashioned by the mentally disordered are out of bounds.
    2
  1221. He welcomes anything that will help up his current body count.
    2
  1222. And by the third hit we were united in the belief we were at war against terrorists, thus making the claims of controlled demolition null and void.
    2
  1223.  @AllinAllisAllweAllare  There was no grounds for a citizens arrest. But lets say there was. In a citizen's arrest you have no right to point a gun at someone. End of discussion. A citizen's arrest that results in the killing of the suspect is still unlawful, unless the jogger initiated assault, which clearly did not happen here.
    2
  1224. Perfect example of a person who is incapable of normal judgement. He probably couldn't help himself if he tried. The real frightening part is, half the population cannot recognize a lunatic when they see one.
    2
  1225.  @exKGBagent  So dictators who practice mass murder and torture doesn't matter. Says a lot about so-called African values.
    2
  1226.  StopCensorship4--1  Neither do bad comedians.
    2
  1227.  @JohnStedman-d4s  I have posted several times about the utterly misguided criticism of the refueling. This again may be due to the Mayday series documentary which makes it seem like this was a safety issue. I presume, also, that the refueling would not have been started without the permission of the controller.
    2
  1228.  @amint7107  Keep on feeling and you'll be higher than Jack and the Beanstalk.
    2
  1229.  @stopcensorship7705  You have no clue what you're talking about. An individual's height is not a function of species inheritance. Where do you get this stuff from?
    2
  1230.  @stopcensorship7705  There's another avenue of evidence we haven't discussed yet: "In non-human vertebrate species, sexual differentiation of the brain is primarily driven by androgens such as testosterone organizing the brains of males in a masculine fashion early in life, while the lower levels of androgen in developing females organizes their brains in a feminine fashion. These principles may be relevant to development of sexual orientation in humans, because retrospective markers of prenatal androgen exposure, namely digit ratios and otoacoustic emissions, indicate that lesbians, on average, were exposed to greater prenatal androgen than were straight women. Thus the even greater levels of prenatal androgen exposure experienced by fetal males may explain why the vast majority of them grow up to be attracted to women. However, the same markers indicate no differences between gay and straight men in terms of average prenatal androgen exposure, so the variance in orientation in men cannot be accounted for by variance in prenatal androgen exposure, but may be due to variance in response to prenatal androgens." I am unaware of extensive testing and research in this area as of now. However , the fraternal birth order hypothesis suggests a prenatal influence. In your opinion, which of the below would best characterize the scientific conclusion to be reached by the above? 1) The prenatal hypothesis has been conclusively disproven. 2) The prenatal hypothesis is unsettled at this time. Therefore, we should remain agnostic.
    2
  1231.  @WarriorV8  "it’s a form of addiction caused by many factors growing up" And potentially hormones too. The science has yet to be settled in any definitive manner, in case you are unaware. I believe right and wrong is primarily a function of our hard-wiring. Cross cultural surveys suggest this. But the further you get from basics, the more room there is for cultural variation. No one has yet produced a proof that gay is an addiction, or wrong, or a lack of discipline. But we are all free to have our beliefs. As a gay man, no one is going to tell me what my thought processes are. That's pure guesswork.
    2
  1232.  @JohnStedman-d4s  A very good post. One additional note, open to debate of course: While use of runways as taxiways may be required in some airports, there were two additional factors here which arguably reduced the redundancy factor below what paying passengers should expect: the combination of having one aircraft taxi onto an already active runway, the other pointed towards it, poised for takeoff; and the sudden deterioration of the weather where there was no ground radar. It was this that created a "potentially hazardous" situation, in the words of the final report. Granted this was an extreme one-off freak event, and hindsight is always easy when sitting in front of a keyboard in complete safety. But to me, this strikes me as unacceptable. "for reasons that have never been established in an Evidentially Supported manner." Very well said, especially in face of the myth of Captain Van Zanten as arrogant and having a big ego, or even being the Hitler of commercial aviation, at least to judge by the docudramas and the comments they generate. While this may be true to whatever dgeree, it is speculation if his personality was relevant to the crash.
    2
  1233. But why would we expect criminals to come forward? Did they even know how many others there were?
    2
  1234. Not defending racist scumbags, but...the error the jury made was in denying Travis due process and reasonable doubt. And the error the law made was in upholding felony murder, which in the case of Bryan at least, makes a mockery of justice. He didn't even know killing was on the agenda, but he gets life in prison. But since they're all racist pigs I don't have much sympathy.
    2
  1235.  @RevDog777  Yes, but isn't that true of all recent models of airplane? The 737Max would be a better candidate, given that Boeing was so confident even after the 2nd crash. BUT, I quibble.
    2
  1236. He'd be still denying it if the waves were up to his neck.
    2
  1237.  @JohnStedman-d4s  As I may have said before, I think the issue really in not the weather per se, but the combination of the weather and having both planes on an active runway for a long period of time, one pointing at the other poised for take off. Whatever is the consensus of the experts, this contributed to the accident. Granted, if there are too many restrictions in place, the whole system could become a logistical nightmare. But not so in this case. The two planes were among the last to leave, and there was no urgent need to send Pan Am out onto the runway. This was essentially a one-off situation that dictated no unnecessary shortcuts. Once the clouds came rolling in, and given the lack of ground radar, I fail to see why the consensus of experts did not speak against this particular protocol. Or maybe they did? Would they today? cheers
    2
  1238. Certainly isn't a sickness by the medical definition. There's no proof whatsoever that most people can change. Don't assume gay requires ass.
    2
  1239. I agree. Curious what you would propose for a jail term.
    2
  1240.  @thenotoriousgryyn342  Pretty sure you're wrong about that. I think this was her first shooting ever. 20 years is for voluntary manslaughter. Especially under stress she got a fair sentence.
    2
  1241. +Rome I understand it, but that doesn't necessarily mean the law is the appropriate remedy. This is a very borderline case at best, and IMO should not have been brought because there's reasonable doubt. She did something very evil. But not necessarily illegal. It depends on one's perspective.
    2
  1242. He wanted to do just that, but apparently with all the communication delays, he finally relented.
    2
  1243. While I have questions about the severity of the penalties, I did no hear hate in this mother's vloice at all. She retained composure in a vary emotional situation and even offered empathy for the McMichael family. What was she supposed to do, congratulate Travis for ending her son's life? And make no mistake, when you aim a loaded gun at someone from a distance of at least 50 feat, you have created reckless endangerment. Denying this is the irreducible delusion driving the defense of these men.
    2
  1244.  @Scotty_Spacemonsterkiller  If not most reprehensible, then pretty close: Wiki: . . .Travis . . . blacks: "savages" and "monkeys", and additionally stated that they "ruin everything". , , , wrote that a restaurant patronized by Blacks should "change the name from Cracker Barrel to Nigger Bucket"; . . . he loved his job because: "Zero niggers work with me." . . .reacted to video of Black man pranking a white man by declaring that he would "kill that fucking nigger", . . . responded to a video of Black Lives Matter protesters by wishing that he had a rifle to shoot the "goddamn monkeys", and separately called for a vehicle to drive into a group of Black people. Travis repeatedly called her a "nigger lover" for dating a Black man Gregory then said: "All those Blacks are nothing but trouble and I wish they'd all die Bryan stated on 2019's MLK Day that he was "working so all the niggers can take off", . . . describing the MLK Day's parade as the "monkey day parade" . . . . stated that a Black man that his daughter was dating would "fit right in with the monkeys", The Conversation: shows pic of Greg attending KKK rally AP news: Travis: . . . shared. . . story ... two Black customers upset about cold food at a Georgia restaurant, using a racial slur to comment that he would beat the Black people “to death if they did that to . . .my mother and sister.” ...added that he would have no more remorse than putting down a rabid animal. Courthouse News Travis: video of a Black man lighting a firecracker inside his nostril prompted him to comment, “Been cooler if it blew that fucking nigger’s head off.” ----------- Other than committing violence, could it get any worse? If Travis' phone wasn't encrypted, God knows what else was on there.
    2
  1245.  @thishandleistaken1011  There was no burglary in over 6 weeks. Father and son couldn't positively identify Arbery as any burglar. They had no right to point at gun at him. When you point a gun at someone, you become the initiator of assault. Arbery saw his life being threatened out of the blue. That would make anyone scared sh-tless. He had a right to shoot him dead, if he had his own gun. I would have done so if I had a gun.
    2
  1246. The wage gap has been debunked in the specific sense that it has been seriously misrepresented by feminists, and indeed most people. The wage gap as originally presented is simply an aggregative statistic adding up the full time wages of all men and the full time wages of all women. That produces an average where men as a whole earn more than woman. The CAUSES of this gap was never the subject of this statistic. So to assume that a wage gap is automatically and exclusively about unfairness or discrimination is to distort the meaning of the "wage gap." In reality, I think most reasonable people who have studied it will concede that while discrimination may indeed be a big part of it, so are many other factors such as what kind of work men and women choose, how many hours they work, and other demographic differences. So when we hear "women only earn 69 cents on the (men's) dollar," implying all of this is discrimination, that's just another example of bad statistics and simplistic sloganeering.
    2
  1247. Especially a society who rank themselves among the most miserable in the world, Ugandans are understandably desperate to find someone else to blame for their own gloomy existence.
    2
  1248.  @mikebyrd42069  Not the 70s.!! Maybe 80s earliest.
    2
  1249. Pure speculation. But I give you a pass because I don't expect intelligent minds to be the dominant force at Youtube.
    2
  1250. So here we have Uganda's most celebrated thug, likely responsible for more deaths than Idi Amin and Obote combined, and all you care about is if he is disgusted by gays? Your moniker says it all.
    2
  1251. I don't understand how that happened. I was careful to reply to joe, not you. Sorry.
    2
  1252.  @rachelrivas6245  I think I would make an exception for Bryan. He didn't come close to malice murder. We shouldn't lose all sense of proportion just because of our own hate.
    2
  1253. You might think so. But you'd be wrong.
    2
  1254. Well, I think in the case of Mentour Pilot, he didn't mean it to come off that way. Sometimes people misconstrue the intended meaning. Of all the people that do these type of mini docs, he's the last one to want to manipulate his audience.
    2
  1255. Human suffering doesn't move them in any way. A high % of these posters are sociopaths, with no social conscience.
    2
  1256.  RichLoves FNAF  What a cop out answer. You make sweeping generalizations, do not define what the disgusting acts are, and imply most gays do this. "Putting their campaign in front of everyone." Yes, I agree it goes overboard for me too. Why don't you do the more rational thing: condemn gays that spread disease, or gay pride parades with people having sex on rolling beds, or whatever disgusting crap means to you. Leave the other gays out of your stereotypes.
    2
  1257. Wrong on all counts.
    2
  1258. I can understand the frustration. They drive me nuts, which is why I am always on these pages. They just won't STFU for even 5 minutes. Every single 911 related video they are at it like , like pop-up spam, it seems. They are really a form of malware. It's like a cancer.
    2
  1259. And why would anyone think to blow up a skyscraper that killed nobody 7 hours later? But truthers don't seem as interested in engaging that question. The fact is, the collapse was expected, which is why they pulled everyone away hours before.
    2
  1260. "What Chris is shouting . .who can't answer the numerous examples of corroborating evidence" Right. Because I like to do one issue at a time. But since you refuse to have a normal give-and-take discussion, no issue can reach its resolution. You cut off all possibility of going on to the next subject. You're a bully and a narcissist and have the social skills of a 2 year old. You have no sense of responsibility or accountability. You are precisely what is meant by the dark side of human nature.
    2
  1261. +Josiah D "zimmerman got away with stalking and murdering an innocent kid" Open to debate. If GZ's account is correct, the moment GZ started walking back to his car, the roles were reversed. Now, TM is the offense and is no longer being threatened. His motive is not defense but probably anger. That changes the whole picture. If this scenario passes the test of reasonable doubt, then the doubt should go to GZ's favor. cheers
    1
  1262. +Lilly Yarney I would agree he's a sociopath. You can't deny it at this point. cheers
    1
  1263. +Lilly Yarney OK, I'll play devils advocate for a moment. In order to have found GZ guilty back in 2013, his version of events has to be shown to be so absurd as to be beyond serious consideration. If this cannot be shown, then the benefit of the doubt goes to GZ. That's how we do justice in the US. Can you state with absolute confidence that the GZ version of what happened is so absurd as to be in the same category as "little green men from mars did it," or any other equally absurd or fanciful story? If you cannot, then the "GZ the murderer" narrative has to be discarded because it doesn't meet the "beyond reasonable doubt" clause. Tell me where I might have gone wrong in my analysis. cheers
    1
  1264. +Lilly Yarney I hear you. But it doesn't answer the central question: is GZ's story as absurd as little green men? Or might the gist of it have actually happened, despite racism, the South, and even an exaggerated broken nose? If there's even a 1% chance it happened the way GB said it happened, would you want tot take the chance of sending an innocent man to prison? Would you be comfortable with saying instead, "in my heart of hearts, I believe he's a scum bag, but I can't be certain of his guilt" ?
    1
  1265. +Lilly Yarney "I love how you want to take race out of it but had Trayvon been white Zimmerman would have never shot him." OK, would you be in favor of amending the constitution as follows: "Whenever a white man is accused of murdering a black man in the South, there shall be no trial, the accused already proven guilty on the basis of his skin color." Are you in favor? Because that's effectively your argument. cheers
    1
  1266. +Lilly Yarney "He would never have shot a white kid" You have absolutely no proof of that. It may also be worth noting that GZ grew up in a multi-cultural family, and was part white, part Hispanic and part black. In addition, in addition, "Zimmerman had been one of the few to take any action to protest the 2010 beating of Sherman Ware, a black homeless man, by the son of a Sanford police officer. Zimmerman reportedly distributed fliers in the black community trying to get others involved too, and helped organize a January 8, 2011, Sanford City Hall community forum to protest the incident.[295] Zimmerman's father confirmed his son's efforts on Ware's behalf." Justice demands impartiality, and not judging the accused by the color of his skin. You should know better, even as I acknowledge the existence of racism and white privilege.     cheers PS In her column, Cathy Young also pointed out that Zimerman mentored black kids. This is why it's so dangerous to make sweeping absolute statements about alleged "white" privilege. It ignores context and distorts the complexity of people's motives.
    1
  1267. +Lilly Yarney There probably is no justice system in the world w/o corruption. Relatively speaking, I'd prefer ours to countries where there is no trial by jury, such as Russia or even Great Britain. Your odds are better here. Finally, you may not be aware of it, but your argument is hypocrisy. To say that GZ must be guilty because of his skin color is no different than saying all black teenagers are guilty because of their skin color. It's the exact same argument, only in reverse. You are employing the exact same racism/stereotyping that you accused GZ of. Neither argument is justified because it's not true that all whites in the South are racist, or that all black teenagers are criminals. This is the mark of an intelligent and sensible person. If you can't acknowledge this, then when it's your turn to be on a jury where race is involved, you will also be an accomplice to the corrupt system. Racists assumptions have only a small place when examining any particular case in its entirety. cheers
    1
  1268. +Lilly Yarney Sorry if I mischaracterized your position. But you did say earlier that if Trayvon was white he would not have been shot.
    1
  1269. +Lilly Yarney "I am not saying that he is guilty because of his race" But you ARE saying that in essence, because you're saying it was racism that motivated him. There's no direct evidence whatsoever of racism here, and no proof positive the murder was in cold blood. I'm curious what it is that causes otherwise nice people to state things in certainties, when there's no basis for certainty. Why can't you instead be content with, "That guy is guilty, even though I cannot be completely certain." Can't you live with that? cheers
    1
  1270. +Lilly Yarney Wishing you a happy Thanksgiving. :)
    1
  1271. GodJa420  Ah yes the sheeple. Last time I checked, the common sheeple were farther along the curve than the critics of the sheeple - on the sheeple curve that is. But I do hear you.
    1
  1272. GodJa420  That people who call others sheeple are actually more "sheepleish" than the sheeple. They fancy themselves standing above the rest of us, but are in fact more ultra-conformist in terms of obedience to the people who share the same values as themselves. :) :) _
    1
  1273. cchris874  At least I think that's what I said.
    1
  1274. GodJa420  Well, I guess it doesn't really matter in any case. cheers
    1
  1275. *****  "Comparing humans to animals to prove humans are born gay is unscientific and FOOLISH" I didn't say there's a proof. My comment was "still up for grabs." It is scientific to compare humans to animals because of the biological similarities. The only thing that's foolish is to claim science has proven things that it hasn't proven. I have not made any such claim. "The FACT is:  many men who had the gay sexual fixation have REPENTED, married women, and fathered children with their wives. They stand as PROOF gays are not born that way." My facts indicate a different scenario. Sexual conversion therapy has no scientific basis. The largest such example I'm aware of is NARTH. Extensive follow-up interviews indicate that of all the people who claimed a successful conversion, only 4% actually changed their true inner attraction. Furthermore, there might be different mechanisms for homosexuality. So maybe some homosexuals can change. There's still to much we don't know. "Gay conduct is curable. Neuroscience has proven this. Christian counsellors also use neuroscience techniques to heal sexual perversions." Yes, I will check out the link, thanks.
    1
  1276. mitch rawles You are preaching hate. You have no morals or brains. I'm sure glad I am not you.
    1
  1277. mitch rawles When you provide us with proof that God exists, is a Christian vs a Muslim God; and that he is the author of the Bible, then I will be ready to listen to you. Until then, you have not met the burden of proof. cheers
    1
  1278. ***** "You don't know because you refuse to read or believe the Bible. God says it's an abomination to him. Case closed." Proof of the Bible requires outside corroboration. You cannot quote something on behalf of itself. For example, if you asked for a proof I am 51, I could not say "because I told you I am." Now, if there is such a proof, kindly direct me to what you feel are the best links. Reading the Bible does not prove it was written by God. Proof: there is nothing in the Bible that could not conceivably have been written by someone or something else. That shows there is no proof. These are matters of faith only. "BY the way....it's not an orientation you are born with. Science has proven that to be false." Your claim presupposes the proof has already come in. That's absolutely not the case. The question, from a scientific point of view, is still very much up for grabs. There is no evidence conclusively proving this. Given that homosexual orientation has been reasonably proved in some mammal species, we are not in any position at the moment to rule out biological influences in humans. "IDIOT" Has no place in a civil discussion.
    1
  1279. ***** "Look at my previous posts. No one is born gay. It's been settled already by LGBT anthropologists. " Just looked through all of your past posts on this thread. Don't see any links or any studies on the subject of whether one is born gay. Kindly provide some scientific backup for this. Thanks
    1
  1280. ***** And as I further pointed out, in principle you cannot prove that God authored the Bible, or even that God exists. If you new anything about science you would know that such claims are unfalsifiable in principle and therefore cannot be proven in principle. A perfect example: anything attributed to God could also be attributed to a highly advanced alien species. There is no way in principle to distinguish one from the other. Thus we have absolutely no way of knowing if the Bible was written by God or by an advanced being able to mimmick the alleged qualities of God. I challenge you to provide evidence that would conclusively show that Bible is the word of God, rather than the word of, say, "Charlie," the name for my proposed super-advanced alien who can produce floods and even miracles. Let's here your argument.
    1
  1281. ***** I've done this many times before, and I have yet to find anything that stands up to scientific standards. That's why I ask you for one. Curious what you consider to be solid evidence. cheers
    1
  1282. ***** There's a well known problem which I'm sure you have studied and thought about known as God and the Problem of Evil. I have found all attempted answers to this question (that I have read) to be grossly inadequate. The basic problem really distills down to one central question. If God is all powerful, and all knowing, and benevolent, why did he create the concept of evil, or more specifically for me, horrible suffering? It's an age old question, but still, in the year 2105, has no particularly convincing answer. As a devout believer, how do you respond to this question? cheers
    1
  1283. ***** If your'e such an enlightened person, why not try acting like it. cheers
    1
  1284. ***** Your use of the term plagiarism is unenlightened as well as silly beyond belief. Whether I put your words in quotes or italicized them (or neither) is irrelevant. Plagiarism at its most fundamental means pretending someone else's words are your own. It's painfully clear to anyone that I have no desire whatsoever to pretend I am you; and it is clear that addressing you by name (+johnsartan98) followed by your words inside of quotation marks, followed by a disapproving comment, is a far cry from anything remotely related to plagiarism. If this is your standard of logic, no wonder you haven't been able to back up any of your claims. I'm sure someone as smart as you knows that you are playing a semantic game. That's unenlightened behavior, plain and simple. cheers
    1
  1285. Wuzz leutd He has not provided any evidence. His defense is limited to scripture itself, and the desire that you find the proof yourself ...and lots of ridicule and verbal abuse I have the perfect disproof of God: the existence of extreme suffering. Cannot be explained by a traditional biblical God. cheers
    1
  1286. Leon Taylor "No one on the face of the planet can make believe this is a good thing." What's necessarily wrong with it, other than the fact that you don't like it? Your opinions do not in and of themselves determine what is or is not a good thing.
    1
  1287. ***** "No one really cares what goes on in a person's bedroom. " [ johnsparetan98 thread 26 reply 310 line 1, Youtube "Anderson Cooper Humiliates Ant-gay Rep. On CNN, Apr 29 2015 ] Well it's apparently of great concern to you since you have expended much e-ink on it, "love of men's anuses" etc etc, which has nothing to do with "shove it in our faces." You're pretty obsessed with it compared to most people. Preaching against it is wishful thinking at any rate. It accomplishes about as much as putting a sign on your lawn saying "rabbits, keep off." Gays are going to continue being gays whether you like it or not. So, do yourself a favor and find something more productive to occupy your time.
    1
  1288. Wuzz leutd "You've got to be shitting me with that one." At first I thought, maybe this guy is perhaps some sort of scholar. But it quickly became apparent that this is really just another Youtube Big Shot: his refusal to provide links, and like all the rest of them, inability to coherently articulate a proof of God, and extremely weak argument in general, reveals someone with very little out of the ordinary to offer: just a lot of moral outrage and preaching at people. And condescending insults. I have not learned one new thing from him yet.
    1
  1289. Wuzz leutd "Whats even more funny is he calls himself a critical thinker" Time and again.
    1
  1290. ***** You gave us your personal view of truth. Why is yours any more convincing than, say, those who uphold the Book of Mormon or the Quran, or the next homeless man for that matter? Every single person who is asked for a proof the Bible is God's words fails to deliver, you included. You can't even cough up a link to get us started.
    1
  1291. ***** "Hundreds of fulfilled prophecies prove it. History bears it out. Science proves it." There is no verification anywhere that most scientists accept your claims. Without such a consensus, the burden of proof shifts to you (and others) who put forth these claims. I'm all ears, but methinks you will not provide any specific examples for fear of being refuted. :)
    1
  1292. ***** The ultimate proof the Bible isn't the word of God is shown by two things:  1 the existence of misery and suffering. There is no reason why a benevolent being would introduce the concepts of suffering and misery into the world. If God hadn't invented suffering, it could not exist. 2 The large number of ghastly writings in the Bible itself, including -children who curse their parents shall be put to death. -or : "O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.  Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." or try this one: -"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open"   OUCH -"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling," This is a God in love with murder, in love with child-killing, utterly infatuated with revenge. If that works for you, go for it. This stuff is infinitely more offensive, ghastly and horrific than gay sex. It's an obvious reason why most sensible people are not fundamentalists.  In short, there is no way to justify any of these things. It shows unequivocally that ancients wrote the Bible, as it reflects the less developed morality of the decedents of hunter gatherers, whose morality was largely limited to members within each tribe/group. 
    1
  1293. ***** I appreciate your response. However with all respect it is nothing more than yet another superficial and intellectually bankrupt response. Take suffering for example. Let's say the very first humans, Adam & Eve, really did exist and really rebelled against HIM by eating the fruit. Are you trying to tell us that this act of disobedience justifies misery and suffering? Are you going to say that the proper role of a benevolent creator is to urge the killing of kids who curse their parents? There is no amount of history that justifies the murder of entire populations, babies and all. Do you see a more basic problem here? History does not justify misery and suffering. It does not justify putting children to death for cursing. You have to come to grips with these much more basic elements to convince anyone that kids deserved to be killed for cursing. Your answers are all wrapped up in unquestioned assumptions about the nature of God. You aren't questioning the really big assumptions you take for granted. Only a sadisitc being would choose to inflict misery and suffering on an entire race because Eve ate a piece of fruit. Is that really what you want me to believe?
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  1294. *****  "The fall of mankind brought decay, suffering, and death into the universe." Let's cut right to the quick if I might. How can the sentence "children who curse their parents shall be put to death," in ANY context, be interpreted in anyway other than cruel? GOD is said to be loving and benevolent. Are you trying to tell us that the recommendation children be put to death for cursing is loving and benevolent?
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  1295. ***** "The fall of mankind brought decay, suffering, and death into the universe." This cannot be be the case. The definition of an alleged Biblical God is a Being/intelligence who is as follows: 1) omnipotent 2) omniscient 3) benevolent. All three of these alleged properties show that God could have chosen to create a world in which the very concepts of misery and suffering did not exist. (Just as this alleged God could have produced a world without vision by not inventing the eye.) In order for your argument to withstand the test of logical consistency, you would have to explain why God could not have chosen a world in which suffering and misery were absent. If God was unable to design a world without suffering, then he is not omnipotent, and fails to meet the definition of a Biblical God. At the very least, one would expect an omnipotent God to have the power to refrain from recommending the execution of children for non-violent offenses. Even you and I can do that, even thought we are far from omnipotent. Right? cheers
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  1296. ***** Thank you for your reply. "he gave us all consciousness which includes an immaterial MIND and ability to conceive the immaterial conceptual realm and gather immaterial knowledge. He wanted his new creation to obey one simple command and they failed." So if one fails to obey a simple command, the moral thing to do is plunge all of mankind into a world filled with unspeakable suffering and misery, and create a hell where the non repentant shall suffer agony forever? I think it's time you updated your notion of morality to 21st century standards. Our morality, at least the West's, has evolved since the more primitive morality of ancient times. The idea that non-violent disobedience should be punished by eternal torture is a repugnant notion, and is all the evidence you need to realize the God of the Bible is a human creation dating from a time when our morality was much more ghastly. A real God would not be a reflection of the more primitive morality of ancient man. It would be a reflection of kindness, love and benevolence. It is contradictory to assert that a benevolent being would have even invented the property of suffering - which, being the creator of the entire universe, and omnipotent, he would not have done.
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  1297. samiam1150 Perverted is in the eye of the beholder. If safety is the issue, don't have sex with gay men. Otherwise, don't bother wasting your energy. All the protests you and others make aren't going to change a damn thing. Gay men will continue to be gay men, like it or not. cheers
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  1298. samiam1150 "Who you have sex with is always a choice." But not the attraction itself. Excepting bisexulas, no one ever chooses hetero or hom -sexual attraction on a whim. There's a virtual consensus in the mental health community that whether inborn, or environmental or both, by the time a child is 4-5 years old, their orientation is more or less fixed.
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  1299. ***** I had a funny feeling you'd like that one.
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  1300. But the more important point is that money spent on bus belts is a poor bargain any way you look at it. Saving 6 lives per year at best, that kind of money could better be spent, for example, on educating people that school buses are on average 80 times safer for your kid to be in, than in your private auto. Far more lethal to children than school buses, whose body design and size make them much more injury resistant. cheer
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  1301. jay garrison  "You can train your brain to like anything. " That's questionable. I mean, to say you can train yourself to have sexual attraction to the same sex is not very well supported. Virtually the entire mental health industry believes that homosexuality is very hard to change, and may well be impossible for most. Sexual conversion therapy, for example, (see NARTH) has been a spectacular failure, with less than 4% of participants saying they changed their actual orientation. I think it would be more prudent to say SOME things can be liked with training. but not ALL things. Until you can cite some real body of evidence that proves gays are able to "retrain" their thinking successfully, it's more of a wish than a reality. cheers
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  1302. jay garrison  Yes, please post again.
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  1303. jay garrison  I'm not trying to "win" anything. This isn't a contest where you prove you're the winner. This is supposed to be a calm, friendly, rational discussion about evidence. I am open to what you have to say. Thanks
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  1304. jay garrison  "I'm not posting again" Then why did you offer to? Just for kicks? You are here to do battle, and stick it to anyone who might have a difference of opinion. It's not so much I am out to win an argument. A discussion is a thing two people do in a civil way. Your style is aggressive, hyper, and antagonistic - and not to mention poor sportsmanship. If you offer to repost something, then refuse to, is a sure sign you are not a well mannered person. I like to discuss things to learn from others, not be clobbered be clobbered over the head. Maybe you should take your arguments to a hockey game, or bring some boxing gloves so that you can punch the shit out of anyone who disagrees with you. I have looked at much of the evidence: the twin studies; homosexuality in the animal kingdoms; the spectacular failure of NARTH; the Qx28 gene sequence theory; in vitro hormones; and many others, which is interesting to discuss. But you are not out for discussion, you are out for blood. Have fun with others.
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  1305. jay garrison  "You say, all people don't choose their sexual." Sorry, I did not say that. If you can't read my posts carefully, another reason we cannot debate. I don't argue with hopped up teenagers, and people who do not know the definition of civility. You are a typical example of the dark side of human nature, using your anonymity to hide behind a typical internet bully. Sorry, it's nothing personal. I just prefer civility to bad manners and poor sportsmanship. BTW are you still a teenager? That would explain a lot. Now, please, feel free to post 5 more bullying replies. And don't forget the words "moron" and butt hurt, and feel free to take back your offers to repost again too. Other uncivil gestures are also welcome, as I won't be responding to them. I'll just sit back and enjoy the next 5 episodes of "The Juvenile Youtube Network comedy hour" And if i do chime in again, it will only be to throw in a few QEDs. cheers
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  1306. TheBuckeyefan12 "why do people just change from straight to gay all the time?" I guess you haven't heard of bisexuality. I mean, why create needless mysteries. (shaking head)
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  1307. You're so wrong. This man simply filmed the situation and PRAISED the man behind the counter for doing his job the right way. And you're complaining about that? That's rather bizarre IMO.
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  1308. +writerconsidered "the key to this case is language" I think the more important point is lack of a convincing proof she killed him, or that he was incapable of defending himself. It's a plausible assumption, but doesn't satisfy the reasonable doubt requirement. Unless one is to argue that every last suicidally depressed person is not able to control their decisions, we cannot come close to a certainty on the status of Roy's mental state. This is a classic case, I feel, of people assuming they hold an honorary degree in the art of mind reading.
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  1309. +writerconsidered "Correction there is no proof she killed him because she didn't kill him at all, he killed himself. " That's a big problem with the verdict. Massachusetts manslaughter laws require that YOU kill someone. So that means if we claim that Roy killed himself; and therefore Carter did NOT kill him, there is, by definition, no manslaughter. Only lawful suicide. I think the judge's position was that her actions and his impaired emotional state effectively means she did in fact kill him because he lacked the emotional ability to reject her orders. THAT's the part that I see as open to debate. cheers
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  1310. +Melissa Well first of all, I want to just say this is a grey area, at least for me. So I don't want to defend my position too vigorously. If the law were determined by gut feeling, i'd agree with you. Reasonable doubt is my concern here. In your fire analogy, you are defenseless. There's no reasonable doubt. But can we be as certain that Roy was defenseless? That's were it gets muddy for me. I see greyness in the belief Roy was incapable of defending himself. It depends on one's conception of reasonable doubt I suppose. But my heart is with you: my gut tells me she deserves punishment of some kind.
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  1311. +Prion "The right to protection from marital rape, the right to birth control, the right to education and work? That's feminism, man." I'd say feminism by and large has lost touch with reality, and has got it wrong on such basic things as the pay gap, for instance. When one considers that there is now widespread agreement that at least 40% of the so-called pay gap is not traceable to discrimination, the "77 cents on the dollar" pay gap amounts to a lie. A more honest claim would be to speak of "the 87 cents on the dollar" pay gap. And even that is highly suspect. So the day feminists stop using the number "77 cents" is the day feminism will have become honest rather than merely just another activist cause that distorts reality. False and irresponsible use of statistics helps nobody except the mental state of the activist. cheers
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  1312. +Prion Indigo There I wholly agree. The Third World needs feminism badly. I think it's important to always make this distinction, as the West and the Third World are miles apart. My feeling is that much of which fuels feminism in the West is the based on the fallacious view that statistical differences between men and women always reflect injustice. Not just the so called wage gap but also representation in politics, in the highest income jobs, and representation in science and other occupations. There's an assumption, effectively sexist IMO, that things which many males typically value more than females: competition, hierarchy, high status job titles, wealth as a status symbol, etc, should be the norm for society. So if women are, say, more likely to turn down a high paying high status job because it gives them more time to be with their friends and family, why should we then automatically assume the smaller number of women CEOs = discrimination? It's interesting that in my former profession, a limo driver, very few women seem interested in being drivers. Anyone was free to show up at the pre-job seminars, but very few women did. I asked one of them if she was applying to be a driver and she said something like "God no." She wanted to be in reservations. Whether such job "segregation" is ruled by deeper underlying sexist stereotyping, there can be little doubt that statistical difference may not have anything to do with active gender discrimination. cheers
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  1313. +Prion Indigo ? Statistical differences between groups has been a feature of the world for many different reasons since they were first invented. But your points are well taken.
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  1314. Metatron Tsebaot  "That's why homosexuality is a choice" My own two cents here. Homosexuality is defined primarily as an orientation, or attraction, as can be seen by consulting any dictionary; and 2ndarily as a behavior. In these discussions, there is endless confusion on this point. Thus, a gay man is gay regardless of whether he has sex. And, not all men who sleep with each other are necessarily gay: witness gay sex in prison where some inmates deny they ever changed. It was merely a substitute of convenience when access to the opposite gender is not available ( just like masturbation). I think by now, the evidence is pretty overwhelming that the feelings of attraction are not a choice, except for bisexuals, who are clearly distinct from straight and gay categories. My final comment would be, why so much fuss over whether it's s choice? It seems to me largely irrelevant in terms of whether being gay is acceptable, moral, immoral, or what have you. Homosexuality's status should be judged not on the basis of whether it's chosen, but on whether it's inherently harmful.
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  1315. Metatron Tsebaot I will give you the benefit of the doubt and agree that you did make the change. The vast majority cannot. Sexual conversion theory has proven a spectacular failure. Perhaps you are bisexual to begin with. Most people know intrinsically what turns them on. Ones does not just wake up one morning and say, "I'll become a homosexual for a day." It does not work like that. If you take your average straight man and ask him "Can you look at pictures of dick and choose to get turned on and get an erection?" I think you know the answer you would get !! The very question is bizarre because the vast majority of us cannot accomplish this feat. End of discussion. cheers
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  1316. Metatron Tsebaot And BTW, the reason the APA changed the status of homosexuality was mounting political pressure to provide a scientific proof. So when they applied the modern tools of diagnostic questioning, they found from the answers of gay and straight people they could not tell the difference between them.  So I say the burden of proof is on you. What diagnostic criteria indicates that gay people are disordered?
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  1317. Metatron Tsebaot  "If things were so set in stone why are straight males becoming gay." As I said, there is no evidence that most men can do this. The results are clear. Take NARTH, for example. Of all those who claimed they changed, extensive follow up interviews revealed that only 4% had actually rid themselves of homosexual urges. That's a stunning failure rate. And of those, most were people who worked in the HARTH ministry. Doesn't sound like NARTH was terribly scientific. I am guessing you are basing your theory on having spoken with a handful of friend and acquaintances. I am not even sure if you have actually rid yourself of these urges. Have you? BTW, for something close to the definitive proof homosexuality is not a disorder, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Hooker#Experiment
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  1318. cmyskinsfan I'll let her/him answer that one, but if you read my link above, you have one of the best proof all in one neat wiki page that gays are not disordered. I'm with you: MT definitely must meet the burden of proof. cheers
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  1319. Metatron Tsebaot I will concede that  somehow I must have formed the misconception that you had once claimed you had been homosexual. Maybe i was confusing you with someone else. My fault. Sorry. That said, you have made many claims that make no sense to me. You have asked people for scientific proof but have not provided any for your own claims. I see you make many assumptions that do not flow from strict logic. SO, let me go back to a fundamental definitional question and see if we can make some progress. Earlier I made the comment that homosexuality is primarily defined as an attraction, and secondarily as a behavior. This is key, IMO, to any rational discussion on the subject. Do you agree that the primary definition of homosexuality is an attraction to members of the same sex? I say primary because the behavior flows from the attraction: it is possible to be gay and not have sex with anyone. Do you agree?
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  1320. Homophobic Atheist Homosexuality is not inherently a risk. Some behavior is. Go after the behavior.
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  1321. Homophobic Atheist The other irony I find in the anti-gay marriage argument is that the risk in male homosexual behavior is enhanced by promiscuous sex. Marriage, as we know, acts as a strong incentive to keep people monogamous. One would thus think that if one wished to reduce the amount of anonymous promiscuous sex among gays, what better invention than GAY MARRIAGE. Seems to have alluded you and many other anti-gay obsessed people. cheers
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  1322. Homophobic Atheist Have I taken the wind out of your homophobic sails? Or do Norway, Denmark and Sweden officially not exist?
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  1323. Homophobic Atheist Show me a study that proves gay marriage causes HIV rates to go up GLOBALLY. Go for it.
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  1324. cchris874 And while you're at it, show me a respected scientist who calls gays "homos" in a public forum. If you're going to quote scientists, try acting like one.
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  1325. Homophobic Atheist "In other words, gay sex is such a health hazard, scientists don't even trust the blood of people who had gay sex." That's news to you? That's old hat, and pretty good advice, too. However, gay sex is not the issue. It's anal sex with multiple partners. There is no way to know how many gay men do it promiscuously. But with total HIV infection only about 10-20% among gays, it would seem reasonable to speculate the vast majority don't.
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  1326. Homophobic Atheist What straw man are you talking about? You brought in the Netherlands to prove that gay marriage causes HIV infection rate to go up. ONE country proves nothing. You need more than one or two countries to show this. This is called Critical Thinking 101. You are called Idiot Thinking 101. It's that simple. Bet you don't even know what a Straw Man Argument is. Just sounds good to throw it around, huh? Because you clearly misused the term in your orgy of rage. "My argument is, no one is wrong for refusing to embrace the high health risk through marriage" Your argument fails because you haven't demonstrated gay marriage causes higher health risks. It's like, I just asked you for the proof, and you call the request a "STRAW MAN"? How stupid can you be? Asking for evidence of a claim which YOU made is called being a good scientist. Straw man is more akin to what you are - your brain is made of hay, apparently. Go do some real homework before spouting rage and stupidity. Your a silly joke of a person, even by the standards of gay-bashing.  Now, time for class review. I have proven you  1) do not understand the nature of evidence 2) do not know what a straw man argument is 3) Have not proven gay marriage causes disease 4) are a complete joke of a person 5) are a moron 6) Who thinks one country represents the entire world 7) Is stupid to the core
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  1327. Homophobic Atheist Just curious how it is possible for a person to be as flawed as you - stupid as bat sh-t, unable to use the tools of logic properly, bad-mannered and bullying to the core, misapplying basic logical fallacies (defining "straw man" as a request for proof has to be one of the most stunningly absurd abuses of logic I've read). Run-of-the-mills bullies come a dime a dozen. But multipley-flawed individuals like yourself set new standards of ugliness. cheers
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  1328. Homophobic Atheist "Since the burden of proof is on you, you the one who has to come up with the evidence." I don't have a proof, nor did I say I did. I said "one would think" based on common sense. Could I be wrong? You bet.
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  1329. Homophobic Atheist "Here are links proving your deceitful ass WRONG http://m.nursingtimes.net/5055345.article" OK, let's do things one at a time. The first link does not talk about either gay marriage OR Denmark Or Sweden Or Norway. So how on earth does it show a link between gay marriage in either the UK or Scandanavia? Can you respond without using the word faggot? Can you show me how this contradicts anything I have said?
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  1330. Homophobic Atheist "You said, "Marriage, as we know, acts as a strong incentive to keep people monogamous. One would thus think that if one wished to reduce the amount of anonymous promiscuous sex among gays, what better invention than GAY MARRIAGE" " Yup, and I did not say I had a proof, now did I? It is well known, however, that for marriage in general,  "cohabiting relationships are roughly two to three times as likely as marital relationships to dissolve in a given year."  See https://files.nyu.edu/sml8/public/cohabitation_022510.pdf  Now ask yourself, wouldn't you imagine that married men probably have fewer sex partners than unmarried men? I'm saying this is common sense, not that it can be proven with actual numbers. That HIV rates have taken an upswing in the last few years may or may not have anything to do with gay marriage.
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  1331. Homophobic Atheist "My argument is, homosexual behavior is a high health risk. Therefore no one is wrong for refusing to embrace high health risk in the name of marriage"  Yes, but that presupposes gay marriage will increase the risk to society of disease. You first have to demonstrate this. You haven't. If gay marriage reduces gay men's incentive for anonymous sex, then you ought to be welcoming it. I don't know whether it does or doesn't. And neither do you. SO, the verdict is still out. Now, if you don't want to support gay marriage for other reasons, fine with me. I don't clobber people over the head for having a different view. 
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  1332. Homophobic Atheist "Gays are going to learn the hard way that they can't do like heterosexuals and expect the same results." Pure speculation. Since the vast majority of gays don't have HIV, it's questionable how much they need to learn.
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  1333. Homophobic Atheist BTW, while you continue on your bizarre rampage against gays, why not also preach to red carpenter ants to stop biting us; or do a rain dance, or voo doo or black magic to help stop the spread oh HIV. All of these things are as likely to have an effect on the world as preaching against gays. Gay men aren't going to go away, and they aren't going to stop having sex with each other no matter how many homophobic zealots waste their time posting on youtube. That is the overwhelming reality you fail to grasp.
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  1334. Homophobic Atheist "According to the definition of 'homosexual', same sex attraction and feelings is gay regardless of age."  You can view it that way certainly. I'm telling you right now, ask anyone who studies pedophilia and they will tell you the mechanism of attraction to children is a different one than that for adults. Go look up some science on this in your "Encyplopedia for the Bad-mannered Bully.: teenage edition"
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  1335. LUKASZ NOGAJ And if you look at the way people drive and the 40,000 deaths a year in the US, one would conclude man was not made for driving. So where do we go with this? And he certainly wasn't made to eat the poisonous fatty sugar-rich Western diet. Hence the millions of premature death to to heart disses, stroke, diabetes and cancer. Shall we declare pecan pie perverted unnatural and immoral then?
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  1336. Homophobic Atheist   "An example is, you claimed gay marriage would decrease HIV among gays and asked me to disprove it when the Burden of proof was clearly on you." We've already gone over the ad nauseum. I stated that it made intuitive sense ("one would think") that gay marriage would help keep people monogamous. I did .[edit] not claim to have any proof, therefore I had no burden of proof. I have already admitted this, and that I could be wrong. [end edit] Now, here's where we separate the men from the boys. Let's stop RIGHT HERE before moving forward. Do you agree with what I just wrote above? Yes or no?
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  1337. +Dustin Sandage Agree in general, but there's a gray area in there I think. Woman says "Please stop," And Man says "Oh, c'mon let's keep going, we're having so much fun, and she says "I just don't feel like it any more." Man then pulls out. Total elapsed time between first request and pull out, say, 15 seconds. I'd say in this context, a rape has not occurred. Instantaneous response to a request while in the middle of a massive orgasm, for example, may be a little unreasonable. What are your thoughts?
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  1338. +Dustin Sandage  It's too bad that you have to assume the question is asked in bad faith, as if it's an "excuse" to keep going. But then again, this is Youtube, where bad manners and accusations flourish.   Life is full of gray, but for the self-righteous, everything is black and white. And civility is the last priority. cheers
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  1339. +Dustin Sandage   My main point here is that, if the man regards the  phrase to " stop please"  as a request rather than an absolute order (context, tone of voice, may have a lot to do with this,), as negotiable for a few brief seconds,how much harm has he really caused?  How much of that is part of the assumed give and take of any back and forth between two people? To me this is an interesting test of our intuitions, and whether ill-conceived or not, has nothing to do with trying to downplay the seriousness of rape. Does hesitation for a few seconds automatically justify an 8 year prison term (the average sentence for convicted rapists)? You write "They've grown up around animals. It's a defense mechanism based on the fact that you all exist." Curious what % of men you regard as animals.
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  1340. +Dustin Sandage You've already demonstrated your lack of basic decency as a Youtube member. Why do you need to keep belaboring the obvious? Are you going to post a third nasty reply? It's as if you want to say "Look at me, Dustin - see how nasty I am." If that's your idea of a civil discussion, it confirms to many people the excesses and intolerance of the rape-culture/ campus rape panic presently gripping the country (US/UK/Canada). They see only in black and white.
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  1341. +Milan Oh don't be so thick, she was 17 WHEN SHE DID IT. "A person can be considered a Youthful Offender if he or she committed the offense between the ages of fourteen and seventeen." -Mass DA
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  1342. +Deven The source I quoted above also says "A person between the ages of seven and seventeen charged with a criminal offense is considered a juvenile." Do you know if he means when they are charged, or at the time of offense?
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  1343. Jonathan Barahona Here's what's really going on. The Bible was written by ancient men who managed to convince the masses that the Bible was written by God. People readily accepted it, as there seemed no more rational explanation at the time. What is the actual origin of morality if not God? Michael Shermer has given an answer that would not have been available in ancient times.  "evolution generated the moral sentiments  out of a need for a system to maximize the benefits of living in small bands and tribes. Evolution created and culture honed moral principles out of an additional need to curb the passions  of the body and mind. And culture, primarily through organized religion, codified those principles into moral rules and precepts." "Social obligations depend on human relationships. Because a band or tribe contains only a few dozen or a few hundred individuals respectively, everyone in the band or tribe knows everyone else and their relationships. One owes different obligations to different blood relatives, to relatives by marriage, and to members of one own's clan, and to fellow villagers belonging to a different clan. Conflicts are directly different from nonmembers on all levels. Should you happen to meet an unfamiliar person in the forest , of course you try to kill him or run away; our modern custom of just saying hello would be suicidal. Populations in the thousands made such formal behavioral control mechanisms ineffectual...In bands and tribes the declaration of love for one's neighbors means something rather different than it does in chiefdoms, states, and empires. In the Paleolithic social environment in which our moral sentiments evolved, one's neighbors were family, extended family, and community members who were well known to all...To Love Thy Neighbor meant only one's immeditate in-group. "...This evolutionary interpretation also explains the seemingly paradoxical nature of Old Testament morality, where on one page high moral principles of peace, justice, and respect for people and property are promulgated, and on the next page, killing and pillaging people who are not one's "neighbors" are endorsed. In terms of evolutionary group selection, religious violence, genocide, and war are adaptive because they serve to unite in-group members against the enemy out-groups." The claim that morality predates the Bible is well supported by the evolutionary theory of morality. The Bible, and belief in God arose because of our moral "hardwiring." In an age when the notion of science had yet to be invented, it is little wonder that the traditions of millions of people have become so ingrained in most if not every culture since then. And it is always the case that people in every society see themselves as the "chosen" people. The claim of Christians that the Bible is the absolute word of God and the only authentic word of God is an exact parallel to the absolute conviction among muslim fundamentalists that the Quran, not the Bible, is the literal word of God. The same holds for the Yamomamo tribes of the amazon who "consider themselves to be the ultimate chosen people [just like fundamentalist Christians] - in their language, their name represents humanity , with all other peoples as something less than human." Just like fundamentalist Christians and Muslims, the notion that one's own religion is the only true one is a universal belief that fundamentalists of all religions hold. And like all such beliefs, the proof is lacking. The information above is orders of magnitude more enlightening than the faith-based nonsense heard over and again on Youtube: "Lord Jesus loves you," provided of course that you aren't a child who cursed his parent, in which case you "shall be put to death." The evident and inherent cruelty of Leviticus is all the evidence one needs that the Old Testament reflects the tribal version of morality that was its source. But some people will justify cruelty as long as they read it in the Bible. What more can one say to such people? They are the ones genuinely lost. Not understanding the nature of evidence, they can damn and dismiss it as it suits them.  If you find inspiration in floods that kill off humanity, children being put to death for cursing, or killing off two men who sleep with one another, it follows that the Bible as the literal word of God will be as inspiring as any other book that's drunk on killing and brutality. To each his own.
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  1344. DemocracyOfHypocrisy "Kids can be raised gay, not born gay." How can one even begin to test this claim?
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  1345. tra129iscool "but both arguments have unfounded scientific claims" The only "scientific" issues here seem to be the claim that many straight people become gay in prison, and continue to be gay when they get out of prison. And the related claim this proves definitively that being gay is a choice. Both of these claims are problematic. In the first instance, Dr. Carson has not revealed his sources for it. In the 2nd, even if this were true, it doesn't mean it must of necessity apply to everyone. Hence Dr. Carson's recantation the next day. cheers
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  1346. ***** "Common street knowledge" And you automatically believe whatever you hear? Go for it. Street talk also would have us believe a million other things with no basis in reality.  But you would automatically accept all of it. Right?  
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  1347. DemocracyOfHypocrisy "multiple gay people I know who's kids are not gay, and they themselves decided to be gay in high school." Not sure I'm following you. So you know multiple gay people who have kids? How do you or we or they know that their kids were heterosexual before high school? Did they actually say, "Hey mom, I liked women when I was 13 and 14; now I prefer men." Even if such did happen, it may only show the kids were bisexual. cheers.
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  1348. ***** I agree with you, Youtube isn't the best place to decide this question. It comes from within ourselves. With that said, my I ask you a question to clear up any confusion. There seem to be two definitions of "homosexuality."  The primary definition is: having sexual attraction to members of the same sex. A secondary definition is: actually engaging in homosexual sex. Lot's of unnecessary confusion arises over this. So, when you say being gay is a choice, are you saying the actual attraction is chosen? Or that only the behavior that flows from this attraction is chosen? (or both?) Thank you for clarifying this.
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  1349. ***** You're not quite making yourself clear to me. Can you answer a simple yes or no: is attraction to members of the same sex a conscious choice? Or does it just evolve over one's childhood/life/whatever, as you seem to be implying? If I'm wrong in what you're implying , do correct me. I want to make sure we are still on the exact same page.
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  1350. ***** BTW, if you think I'm a troll, you're in for a surprise. If you agree to be a good sport and answer a few more simple questions, I will demonstrate with high probability that for most people, the notion gayness is chosen as an orientation/attraction defies reality in the most blatant way. cheers
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  1351. *****  OK, so we seem to be on the same page, I gather. Since people don't choose their childhood experiences or the external stimuli that affects them at this age (or for that matter, the stimuli they experience as an adult), we do not choose our sexual attraction in any meaningful sense: Experience and upbringing and external experience chooses the attraction for us. So, no one says, "You know, I think I'll try homosexuality out for a day." Fair?
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  1352. ***** If it seems I'm twisting words, it's because you give twisted, ambiguous answers to simple yes or no questions. Let me ask you straight out once again: Do you believe that homosexual attraction is chosen? Can you give me a SIMPLE yes or no please? No more convoluted "well, its external stimuli, childhood, either you suck dick or you don't" That muddies the waters further. Just give us a yes or a no PLEASE THANK YOU 
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  1353. ***** BTW, did anyone ever teach you civility? As in not coming on here like a Big Shot obnoxious no-it-all? Or do you choose to be provocative and dismissive because it gives you kicks? You can make your points without saying "little ass outdoors." Just curious what makes a jerk a jerk.
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  1354. ***** Now if you want the truth, here it is. Most people DO NOT choose what turns them on. If you can't get past that 1st bsic step, you're a fish out of water. Street or no street knowledge, you are either born into or reared into your sexual orientation. It's as self-evident as the sun. But if I need to walk you through the mundane steps that lead to the obvious conclusion, I'm happy to do so for your benefit.  cheers
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  1355. Frank Columbo  "Wrongo...EVERYONE has the choice to make." No, not everyone. I'll give you an BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS example. We have many gays who are miserable\ over the fact they are gay. They can't shake it. Such accounts are ubiquitous and documented as well as any thing else you'll ever read. These accounts typically describe how for their whole lives, they were unable to change their true attraction. YOU"VE NEVER SEEN ANY OF THESE UBIQUITOUS ACCOUNTS? REALLY? If you're so street smart, this should have been in your arsenal all along. EVERYONE knows such people exist. EVERYONE. So, you are faced with two "choices," EITHER you choose to believe all these gay people are liars. OR you choose the more rational conclusion: most of the time, when uncountable numbers of unrelated people give a similar story, more likely then not that they are describing THEIR reality. OK, let's hear your response, Mr. Know-it-all Big Shot "self important little ass outdoors." Are they all liars? Or is your view in need of some rethinking? AND, can you answer like a normal person does - in a civil way? Choice is yours. cheers
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  1356. Frank Columbo  "Unless you can otherwise prove it with evidence that is clinical " LOL So now you want clinical evidence? I thought common street knowledge was your ultimate gold standard. This is getting increasingly interesting.
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  1357. Frank Columbo  We have many other lines of evidence that strongly suggest gayness is not a choice. Take so-called sexual conversion therapy. It has been a spectacular failure. This is even more compelling in some respects because it would be hard to accuse the people that enroll in the therapy of being liars. Clearly, such gay people feel they cannot change. But as followup interviews have shown, only about 4% of such people report a genuine change to heterosexuality. As one ex-exgay put it, "Only four percent of those who claim that “reparative” or “conversion” therapy has been successful now consider themselves to be heterosexual. Interestingly, almost all of these people work in the ex-gay counseling field. It would seem that for reparative therapy to be successful, one must quit one’s job and become an ex-gay minister and/or therapist and dedicate one’s life to it."
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  1358. +Frank Columbo Good, I'm glad you've blocked me, now I have the floor to myself. You're a poor sport who doesn't understand the nature of evidence. That much is clear to everyone. I'm glad you've removed yourself from the discussion. Big shots full of hubris cannot handle rational debate.  cheers
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  1359. Can anyone figure out what just happened here? Another case of bad manners and Big-Shot-Itis, and he leaves in a huff. Go figure For those interested in a serious debate, kindly read my posts above. There are 7-8 basic points to the argument that gayness is not chosen 1) The self-hating/miserable gay, who desperately wants to change but can't. Does that sound like a choice to you?  2) Ask yourself: if you are a straight man, can you force yourself to become aroused at the sight of a dick? The answer should be self-evident for most of us. 3) So, why would you expect a gay man to be any more capable of this? 4) The definitive study (Mr Big Shot left before I had time to mention it) which showed that A) Gay conversion therapy failed badly; and that after a certain age, if one has never had a heterosexual attraction, none of the participants were ever in a heterosexual relationship as adults, unless they were bisexual to begin with 5) The mounting neurological evidence that identifies differences in gay vs straight brains. 6) The fact that each successive male sibling is much more likely to be gay than the previous one. 7) Homosexuality in the animal kingdom, which shows there doesn't have to be a gay "gene" for its existence. 8) And finally, the very notion of "sexual conversion therapy." If gayness were a choice, a moment's reflection shows that the therapy would not be needed. There you have my case. A pity that Mr. Hubris doesn't have the decency to allow an argument to progress in a friendly and rational way. Have I proven my case? No, there's no absolute proofs being offered. Did I indicate a much more common sense grasp of the evidence than Mr. Hubris? Of that, there is no doubt whatsoever.
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  1360. DemocracyOfHypocrisy "Because I have yet to meet one gay person who did not choose to be gay." I respect your opinion, and I'm not questioning your claims. But I'm going to challenge you on one thing. If someone told me they chose to be gay in high school, I would interpret that as meaning "I realized I don't have attraction to the opposite sex, only to the same sex. Therefore, it would make sense for me to recognize I am a gay person." Do you think your friends were saying this to you? Or do you genuinely believe they woke up one day in high school and said, "You know, I think it would be cool to start being aroused by members of the same sex."? cheers
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  1361. DemocracyOfHypocrisy "simple yes or no answers" I would say to that, I am responding to the simple "yes or no" claim that gayness is a choice. If one can make a simple yes or no statement like that, I feel it's appropriate for me to ask a corresponding yes or no question.  "Can they then claim that they had no choice in becoming a criminal?" Before answering that, let me ask you the same basic question I asked Frank. Are you saying that the attraction gay people have to people of the same sex is chosen? Or just the behavior that flows from it? Thanks for keeping things civil.
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  1362. DemocracyOfHypocrisy Appreciate your answer. I can only speak definitively for me. I cannot conceive of myself being able to look at pictures of "dick" and being able to force myself to get an erection. Can you? It would seem to me that if THIS is what people mean by gay choice, they are badly off track. In my experience, no one says "I think that I will become a homosexual next thursday at 1 o'clock." My main position is that desires are just there, and choice enters the picture only when we decide how to react to that desire. Does this make sense to you?
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  1363. DemocracyOfHypocrisy Final question for the night. Any ideas what causes some people , like Frank, to spew out insults on his 1st reply? What is it that causes so many people to behave like angry teenagers when discussing this topic? cheers
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  1364. ***** Hmmm. Some very interesting thoughts there.
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  1365. +Frank Columbo "stop feeding the troll." Hmmm. Strange definition of "ignore", yours. So, how does it feel now that I have completely devastated your bullying and pathetic  posts? I bet you're just dying to say more. The pent of rage in your teenage brain must be driving you nuts. Just at the ready for more insults and hissy fits. I bet you can't hold it in. Let's see if I'm right. Or do you really think all those self-hating gays chose self-hatred for kicks? I mean seriously, you can't be this dense. People don't choose these things. As Judy Judy likes to say, I'm 10 steps ahead of you. The real reason you removed yourself from this discussion is because I went right to your sensitive point and called your bluff. What a fraud you are.
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  1366. DemocracyOfHypocrisy  "rightfully labeled as a mental disorder?" How, though, does it qualify as a mental disorder? Perhaps it would help if you spelled out the criteria for something being a mental disorder.
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  1367. DemocracyOfHypocrisy  Yes, I understand all this about pedophilia. What I don't understand is why one would think to call homosexuality a disorder.
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  1368. +Frank Columbo  "stop feeding the butthurt Queer troll..." I think Democracy is capable of forming his own opinions about me. And if he wanted any advice, why would he take it from a big shot bad mannered bully? You're the biggest poor sport on this part of Youtube. You can't even keep to your own "ignore" settings. Such a hypocrite. cheers
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  1369. +Frank Columbo One last thing . If I'm a troll, then so must The American Academy of Pediatrics, The Royal College of Psychiatrists, The American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers, all of whom state that biology plays at least some role in homosexuality. Go back to your street gang and let the big boys do the heavy lifting, as you aren't up to the task.
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  1370. +Frank Columbo NEWS FLAH NEWS FLASH, GET THE VERY LATEST Frank Columbo, an unknown internet nobody, who can't follow his own advice (i.e. "ignore" means "keep tuning in", declares all contrary opinion to be the product of trolls. That list would have to include Wikipedia The American Academy of Pediatrics   The Royal College of Psychiatrists The American Psychological Association American Psychiatric Association National Association of Social Workers Yes, all Trolls, and maybe Queer trolls at that. Why? Because Frank is far better informed than all these groups; knows more about science than scientists; more about everything than everyone. Yes, the whole world IS ONE BIG QUEER TROLL. That is irrationality. That is its nature. That is Frank. Poor Frank. He can't respond without flipping that little hypocrite switch again back to "keep tuning in."
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  1371. +Frank Columbo My little friend Franky. Well this is all so much fun, having the entire floor to myself. Hey, it was your choice not mine!!! Maybe if you keep taking those little itty bitty hypocritical peeks at my posts you might actually learn something from them. Like: Virtually the entire mental health establishment collides with your beliefs: they pretty much now all accept that biology has a lot to do with homosexuality, thought the precise model has yet to be finalized. Now, also please tell us (too bad you can't, actually) if you really believe something as ridiculous as the notion that you, a straight man (I give you the benefit of the doubt) could simply wake up one morning and "choose" to be aroused by the sight of "dick." Manifestly silly. The very notion of your definition (external stimuli, childhood experience) implies that these factors aren't a matter of choice. This is manifestly obvious in the case of childhood experience: children do not choose their childhood influences. And you say that's twisting your words!!!! Apparently you can't see the obvious implications of what you write. It's really nice being able to make a rational argument without you butting in with your barrage of cliched insults and bad manners. I hope you ban yourself from other rational discussions. It does us all a favor. "Queer troll" You think you can get away with that in any civil forum? That must be why you come here then promptly ban yourself. cheers
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  1372. +Franky Little Franky, Frank. I'm counting down the hours. About 8 or so left I reckon before you violate your alleged block of my posts and put in your daily "don't feed the troll" comment. Such an amusing pastime you have. You can't just let it go. Will you be obsessed with me forever? Oh little frank. Like a leaf that falleth. . . . . and falleth and falleth.
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  1373. +f Jake Poor quality post.
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  1374. +Ryan Shaffer You're way off base here, I think. Love and happiness may be choices on some level some of the time. But not all the time. An obvious example is depression: very few people choose it, although some get a definite benefit, and it can be used as a convenient excuse. Another example of an emotion which we have little control over is grief. Can you really choose happiness the day your child is run over and killed by a truck? The answer to that should be obvious. Feelings of homosexual attraction are involuntary. If there's any choice, it's how one decides to deal with it. Maybe it's true some people can change, but the actual evidence all gay people can change is weak to nonexistent. cheers
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  1375. +An Elf Sometimes it helps to state the obvious, which often eludes people. As you stated, if happiness were always a choice, we'd all choose it and there would be no such thing as misery. There would be no need for therapists. We could all choose a concentration camp and still be perfectly happy. Similarly I would add, if we could all choose our sexual orientation, there would be no point in having terms like heterosexual and homosexual. We would in effect all be bisexual. cheers
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  1376. +Satanic Santa "There's no evidence that homosexuality is genetically predisposed." Incorrect. There's substantial evidence biology may play a role, though the absolute proof is not yet available. "People can change." There are people like you who say they can change. Then there are people like me who say they cannot. One is not entitled to generalize or absolutize, if you will, based on one person's experience. I would say, if you can indeed change, more likely you have a more bisexual predisposition. Either way, your post above does not indicate you chose to change. To be "turned on" implies the absence of a conscious choice. If it were really a choice, you would have written, "I made a conscious choice to make myself like gay porn, even though I was turned off by it." But I bet it didn't happen that way. Am I right? cheers
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  1377. +Ryan Shaffer "it doesn't work to say that they were originally bi" You might be right. But what one really needs to know is what do people mean when they say they've changed? People often change their behavior, or suppress their natural attraction, and then claim they've changed. This turned out to be the case in the vast majority of people who enrolled in so-called reparative therapy, for instance. On in depth interviews, it turns out almost none of them was able to successfully rid themselves of homosexual attraction. In any case, my main point is that even if it were true that some can change, one is not entitled to say that therefore everyone can change. "If this is the case, why is there such a low correlation in identical twins, where one is transgender???" I think it's fair to say the evidence is mixed. I'm not sure about transgender, but several studies have shown that each additional male child a mother has is about 1/3 more likely to be gay as an adult than the previous one. This is part of a broader theory known as the maternal line theory. I addition, there have been many studies indicating differences in the brains of straight vs gay people, and homosexual behavior also exists in the animal world, suggesting an underlying genetic factor. The best studied of these is domestic sheep, where 8-10% of male sheep consistently select other males and refuser to mate with females. See http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26089486 for more discussion of this topic. cheers
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  1378. +Ryan Shaffer This wiki entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation I think puts things into perspective. Yes, the Francis study found only a weak maternal correlation. There have been many other studies, and Francis's is not the latest study suggesting a link between biology and sexual orientation. I thus would not so readily conclude there is "no" evidence, as you stated. If it were that simple, there wouldn't be so much controversy and research in this area. To say there there is partial evidence creating a mixed picture is a more realistic snapshot of the current state on this question IMO. cheers
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  1379. +Ryan Shaffer I meant studies on biology and homosexuality in general. I'm not by any means qualified to interpret the data, but it seems from the wiki entry that there have been several studies on the birth order question based on different data sets. That Francis's was the most recent doesn't necessarily make it more definitive than the others. We have the classic case of conflicting studies. Do you have a specific reason why the data set Francis study is based on (add health), and his methodology is more reliable than, say, those of Anthony Bogaert in his paper? See http://www.pnas.org/content/103/28/10771.long and let me know your opinion. cheers
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  1380. +Ryan Shaffer Thank you, a good read, though dense in places. I'm always one to distrust studies in general. Nowadays there's a "controlled study" industry that pushes half-baked studies on the public. What these authors claim is thus not at all surprising to me, and upon reflection, they do point out some basic problems with getting a truly random sample. That said, I find their main hypothesis, that the evidence points in a socialization direction, questionable. The key finding for me is on p1196: "Among male OS twins, the proportion reporting a same-sex romantic attraction is twice as high among those without older brothers (18.7%) than among those with older brothers (8.8%)." While it may be true no specific simple genetic or hormonal theory can explain this difference, how would one be able to begin to test a socialization model? Why would an OS male twin w/o an older brother be more likely to be socialized in a "feminine" way? How would one measure this? Has it been measured? If there's a problem getting bias free twin samples, imagine the difficulty in controlling for all the variables in any attempt to measure the socialization factor. I found scant explanation for this anywhere in the article. From everything that has been exchanged so far between us, I would probably modify my views to reflect greater appreciation for the bias factor in the samples used for genetic studies. This might well change my confidence level that biology plays a role here. But it does little to change my feeling that the evidence for socialization being more likely is weak. Thus it's still premature to say the weight of evidence is against biology. The mechanisms are still too poorly understood. cheers
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  1381. +Satanic Santa "There's no evidence that you're genetically predisposed to like masculine features or dick." Let's say you're right. I challenge you to provide evidence that it's more likely based on socialization. "Sexuality is a choice shaped by cultural conditioning." A little oversimplification, I believe. First off, if by sexuality you mean sexual orientation, there's little evidence it's a conscious choice. 2nd, we have to be careful not to conflate the issue of sexual orientation with the causes of homosexual attraction. There can be no doubt that raw homosexual and heterosexual attraction is 100% biology based. We humans did not invent such attractions. The only question is what pushes someone in one (or both) of those directions. You will hear from both me and many other gay people they did not consciously choose to be this way. You have to make up your mind whether such people are simply all lying. If you are rational, you will conclude that it's untenable to say all of the thousands of such testimonies are all lies. As for those who say they've changed, I cannot deny what they say either. But it doesn't follow that just because one has changed that it was due to a conscious choice either. cheers
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  1382. +Ryan Shaffer "What else is there besides biology and socialization?" Sorry if I was unclear, but that's my point. The choices are either biology or socialization.  There seems to be a lack of solid evidence for either one being more likely than the other. So to say there's no proof biology plays a role is no more or no less valid than saying there's no proof socialization plays a role. Agnosticism of some sort may therefore be the most reasonable position at present. "so maybe my tastes have changed some..." Indeed they may have. But it doesn't follow you "chose" to change your tastes. That's the classic non sequitur that many people assume follows from the "I became straight" argument. Why should the change have necessarily been due to a conscious choice? cheers
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  1383. +Ryan Shaffer "Don't forget personal choice!" There's something very wrong with this model if you think it applies to most people. It may apply to you, but absolutely not to me. Lot's of people are simply unable to choose heterosexuality. That is a reality that you have to contend with.  "I think the issue we are finding is that if there is no real biological link, all we are left with are socialization" Tell me why there's more evidence for socialization than biology. How has socialization been carefully measured in terns of sexual orientation? Show me a study that demonstrates this. "the problem is that socialization is much harder to prove" Without a proof, what is the case based on? Intuition? "So it seems logical to me that if you can rule out biology" But it hasn't been rules out!!! The inquiry into this only began in the early 1990s. Today, there's been extremely limited evidence that's been studied so far. The mechanisms may be quite complex. No one is in any position to rule anything out as of 2015. "next year that I will eventually become a regular eater of bell peppers..." Maybe, and forgive me if I suggested I don't believe you. Your experience is assumed to be valid in my book. I can tell you I've spent a lifetime trying to rid myself of gay attraction, and at least know what it's like to feel heterosexual attraction. I'm really dying to know what it feels like. After so many years of trying, I have come to accept that it's delusional for me to think I can change. Maybe personal choice works for you and some others. It absolutely does not work for most, as demonstrated by not only me, and uncountable numbers of testimonies from gay people, but by the failure of any study to demonstrate it. The most obvious example are the reparative therapies offered by Christian ministries promising to change desperate gay men. The sample is clearly more motivated than most, given their willing to enroll in such therapy. Yet the results have been a dismal failure. The scandal-ridden industry includes former "ex-gays" who actually ran these programs and have now recanted and stated the entire notion is bordering on fraud. In depth interviews have revealed the vast majority of "ex-gays" who took the therapy merely changed their behavior, and were unable to rid themselves of gay attraction. No other therapies or studies have succeeded in demonstrating most people can change. This is why the majority of therapists disagree that gays can change, and what lead the APA to state "[t]here is no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of reparative therapy as a treatment to change one's sexual orientation." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy cheers
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  1384. +Ryan Shaffer This I found a while ago on another forum, FYI - - - - - - - - - - <<Igor, the "ex-gay" movement is discredited by its own history, which is littered with scandals and defections. Many of the "ex-gay" ministries that started up in the 1970s and 1980s are now defunct. Of those still operative, very few are still run by the "ex-gays" who originally founded and ran them. Why is this? In some cases the original founders/directors have admitted that the "ex-gay" quest is futile; in others they have been exposed as living double lives, claiming to be "healed" of their homosexuality and to be helping others to be similarly "healed" while still secretly engaging in homosexual behaviour - sometimes with clients of their ministries.   Michael Bussee, Gary Cooper, Jim Kaspar, Jeremy Marks, Raphaël Creemers, Jeff Ford, Christine Bakke, and Darlene Bogle - these are just some of those in the former category, who led "ex-gay" ministries for years but later repudiated such ministries as ineffective. John Smid was the director of Exodus member ministry Love in Action, a residential ex-gay program in Memphis, Tennessee, for 22 years before his resignation in 2008, and he was on the board of Exodus International for 11 years. Last year he admitted that in all his years with Exodus he NEVER met a homosexual man who had become heterosexual through an Exodus ministry: "NOT ONE."  In February 2007, Alan Chambers, the current president of Exodus International, told the Los Angeles Times that he wasn't sure he'd ever met an "ex-gay" who ceased to "struggle" with same-sex attractions - and he made it clear at the "ex-gay" conference, held shortly after, that that included himself. He said that he used to get angry with people who say that he is "in denial" but that he now agrees that they are more or less right. He said "I live a life of denial" and "I choose to deny what comes naturally to me," and that he has to pray to God every morning when he gets up to keep him in this state of denial. Do guys who are genuinely heterosexual need to do that? I think not. If you seriously believe that "therapies" of this kind have even a 20-30% "success" rate, then I can only express my astonishment at your extraordinary credulity.">>
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  1385. +Ryan Shaffer I would say research into genes/hormones is no where near robust enough to justify any conclusions. It's sort of like aging. We know there are six or seven basic mechanisms that cause us to age. There are probably over 100 different specific genes, yet we haven't identified most of them yet despite years of research. When there is no published study indicating most gays are cabable of changing, and plenty of studies/trials/therapies that have all failed spectacularly, what is the evidence for this view? cheers
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  1386. +Ryan Shaffer  Thanks for being a good sport with all of my words of disagreement. I'll let this discussion go after this final post. It's been a good series of posts between both of us. The lack of a "gay gene" is not a basis to rule out biology. Consider left-handedness, again from a wiki article" "the growing weight of evidence from linkage and genome-wide association studies suggests that genetic variance in handedness cannot be explained by a single genetic locus" Thank you for the link. The author of it seems to disagree with your categorization that the "majority" changed. He quotes 23% and questions whether these were in fact genuine changes of orientation. Again, thanks for an informed discussion. :)
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  1387. +Ryan Shaffer hopefully I didn't offend you with my outspokenness... No, not at all. Take care.
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  1388. +Ryan Shaffer -- "As far as not being able control being attracted to a different gender, that is not true for many... http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Some-Straights-Can-Go-Gay-Study-Says-2920640.php" You do realize this is a parody. Or, a la Youtube, you're the kind of person who has no sense of academic standards and indiscriminately pastes any old link they've skimmed in 3-5 seconds. Gay conversion therapy lacks any studies that conform to scientific or statistical protocol. The whole industry has proven itself to be one big scandal after another, with ex-gays coming out and declaring themselves "ex-ex-gays."
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  1389. +Ryan Shaffer - None of this proves that people choose their sexual orientation.
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  1390. +Ryan Shaffer -- "Dr. Spitzer in no way implied in the study that being gay was a choice," according to the NY Times More importantly, though Spitzer did have a lot of political pressure on him to recant, he also had rational reasons as well. The study was poorly designed and did not go through the usual peer review process. As the NY Times article report, the primary reason for the recantation: "Simply asking people whether they have changed is no evidence at all of real change. People lie, to themselves and others. They continually change their stories, to suit their needs and moods." This is the reason that reparative therapy is unproven. There is no objective method to verify the results. And with countless gay people (me included) having been unable to change, there is no scientific basis for saying all or even most gay people can change. Moreover, that one can change doesn't mean the change was chosen.
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  1391. +Ryan Shaffer -- Let's say for the sake of argument some gay people can change. Fine. That means acknowledging others may not be able to, and therefore the whole argument that "gay is a choice" is refuted. For some it is, for others not. The crucial point people miss here is that changing doesn't mean it was a choice. Example: Paul falls in love with Sue. 10 years later he falls out of love with Sue and exclusively in love with Sally. None of this means any of Paul's feelings were "chosen." Hence the expression to fall in love.
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  1392. +Ryan Shaffer -- I wrote that it did not go through the usual peer review process, because Spitzer handed it over to his friend, the editor of the Archives, and he agreed to publish it. Proper peer review is not supposed to be giving your work to a friend. Now, if you think I have this account wrong, I am open to correction: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/health/dr-robert-l-spitzer-noted-psychiatrist-apologizes-for-study-on-gay-cure.html?_r=0 "Virtually every psychological study I have seen (whether peer reviewed or not) on this subject revolves around asking people questions and then getting answers..." Agree in general, but a case can be made homosexuality is more complex than most straightforward questions or surveys: religious motives, an intense desire for many to "fit in" are some reasons for bias potential. There has been strong denial in the past to admit one it gay. So that raises more doubts than other garden variety report surveys. Many simply think that by successfully repressing gay feelings and "acting" straight, they've genuinely changed. Self-report surveys are inconsistent, with some states indicating twice as many gays as other states. And since so many other gays have stated they cannot change, it makes these claims much more subject to uncertainty. That said, I'm not denying some might have changed, but "proof" is putting too strongly IMO.
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  1393. +Ryan Shaffer -- "What does it mean? How can someone change without choosing to change? " Because homosexuality is in the emotion/feelings/attraction category, and in general, we have little say over emotions/attrcations Examples: You're insulted and loose your temper and are filled with rage. This can happen quite involuntarily, which is why we call it "lose" your temper. " Later, we often wish we could have controlled those feelings. Another example: you start falling in love: love often comes completely unannounced, hence again the expression "to fall in love." You may not have chosen to have these emotions. Other examples of not being able to always choose our emotions feelings attractions -depression -choosing happiness the day after your child is run down by a truck -having a bad day -not being able to like atonal music -Seeing a really bad movie and choosing to like it anyway This is why I see the "we choose our feelings/attrcations" argument at violent odds with obvious everyday reality. Desires, feelings, emotions are just there, and while we can take steps to change them (for example drugs for depression), it isn't always easy or possible. So while I would agree I cannot rule out some gays genuinely changing, the basic "gay is choice" argument, as a whole, seems to me based on a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. Feelings and emotions are givens. That is the nature of our world.
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  1394. +Ryan Shaffer 1st off, let me apologize for my 1st reply accusing you of only skimming links. You obviously appear far more knowledgable than I assumed. Let's start with temper: "So are you saying people are unable to control themselves when they get angry and are completely justified in beating someone..." Wait wait, hold on there. Did I say anything about beating anyone up, or saying this would be justified? My point is much more simple. And let me put it to you as a personal question. Have you ever lost your temper and felt enraged? If your answer is no, you must be a very rare human being indeed! If on the other hand the answer is yes, then you have confirmed by point that you can't always control your emotions. cheers
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  1395. +Ryan Shaffer -- "we can control whether we focus and act on those urges or not." Well if that has been your main argument all along, I would agree. But my main point in discussions like these is that sexual orientation is primarily an attraction, not a behavior (though the behavior flows from the attraction, of course.) I can control my behavior, but I don't see how I could change my attraction. I have tried endlessly, mainly because I'd really love to know what heterosexual attraction feels like! So I've spent literally decades looking at and trying to get myself turned on to numerous pictures, videos, thoughts of females/female bodies, and all to virtually no avail. This is why, on a personal level only, I get annoyed when I hear people that don't know me (or most other gays), say that I am capable of reprogramming my brain. How else am I to go about doing this when I have tried such reprogramming for years and years? So if gay attraction is a choice for everyone, it must be incredibly hard to realize this choice for many. That basically means that in practical terms it makes no sense to say all or even most gays are making a conscious choice. cheers
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  1396. +Ryan Shaffer -- Thanks. I think that's probably a wise point of view - absolute proofs are probably not possible in this debate. What makes it especially hard, for me at least, to assess the success level of people who claim to have changed is illustrated by many follow up interviews: NARTH is a good example: on in-depth interviews with the alleged success cases, it turns out that all but about 4% of the people who had the therapy actually rid themselves of homosexual attraction. The reparative therapy phenomenon is so riddled with scandal, the success stories seem less credible than might otherwise be the case, even if some of them are true. In addition, bisexuality complicates the picture. If we go by the Kinsey 0-6 scale (which I'm not endorsing), it may be many of those who change did so because they are not 0s or 6s, but say 1s or 5s. There's also a myth, I think, that bisexuals are equally bisexual all the time. Maybe only bisexuals of various degrees are the ones who are capable of change. Who knows. I guess I am more suspicious than you about the claims of so many people changing, aside from my personal experience/bias, is because it seems to me, in essence, that if you can successfully go back and forth so easily, then it kind of eliminates the distinction between gay and straight. Certainly if everyone could accomplish this feat, the terms gay and straight would be robbed of meaning: we'd all essentially be bisexuals. And that seems to me to be far from the case.
    1
  1397. +raymercervstimsylvia Carson used a very weak argument. But then, the man has a lot of crazed notions that would cause any sane person to reject him.
    1
  1398. Forget homosexuality. Carson offers multiple crackpot statements to ensure his non-genius status. Examples provided on request.
    1
  1399. +The Derk King God allegedly predicted a time when Egypt would be without human inhabitants. It hasn't happened yet. And you can always say "it hasn't happened yet" to justify predictions that haven't come true. Just wait long enough, and you can have your Godly predictions and eat them too. Rational people tend not to bother with this sort of debate.
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  1400. "so you're telling that these prophets who predicted things hundreds of years before they occurred had no Devine revelation" Yes, because all it takes is one failed prediction to invalidate divine revelation. And there are multiple failed predictions, not to mention many other disproofs of a biblical God. For example: God is all-powerful and morally benign. So, why doesn't he use his divine powers to kill off Satan? Because we humans deserve to be killed, tortured, maimed, right? We all deserve it, right?
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  1401. +The Derk King "if everything was good then what would be the point, this world is a test my friend" What is the point of allowing people to die in agony? Can't God think of more humane ways of testing us? Is sacrificing millions of us in flood-curdling ways moral? You tell me.
    1
  1402. +Rachel Rogers I don't think I missed the point because the traditional biblical definition of God is a being that is omniscient (all-knowing.0 So if he's wrong about even one, He's not omniscient, and therefore cannot be God. cheers
    1
  1403. If God cannot be a prophet, then He isn't God, because then he would lack omniscience.
    1
  1404. +The Derk King -- "who created the morals we follow?" We did. It's in our hardwiring, as recent research has demonstrated. We humans also wrote the Bible, and thus it reflects the more primitive moral development at the time of its writing. Today for example, no moral entity would ever say that a child who curses shall be put to death. In any context that ideal, as expressed in Leviticus, is pure evil. To excuse that on the grounds that an unproven God authored it is to not be able to distinguish good from evil. So if the Bible ordered us to round up and kill all blacks and Jews, I presume, having no internal moral compass, you would follow its orders? cheers
    1
  1405. +The Derek King Sure, if you believe in fairy tales, anything is possible.
    1
  1406. +The Derk King Still having trouble coming up with an answer to this?: "What is the point of allowing people to die in agony? Can't God think of more humane ways of testing us? Is sacrificing millions of us in flood-curdling ways moral? You tell me." and if God ordered you to kill blacks and Jews, would you simply follow orders? Or might you question His legitimacy?
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  1407. +The Derk King "why would I question a being who can determine the future before it happens." Because if God knows everything before it happens, that means he knows in advance he will be creating horrific suffering. That's an even greater proof God is the creation of man. What makes you so sure there is a God; and if so, it's a biblical one? Do you have a proof somewhere?
    1
  1408. +The Derk King Actually, I don't think you're getting it. Let's start wit basics. As you stated, God knows what the future holds. Then, OF NECESSITY it follows he knows he will be creating a world with unspeakable horrific suffering. That's inescapable logic. Are we in agreement so far?
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  1409. +The Derk King Can you cite the biblical passage where it predicts Trump will win the election. And if he doesn't win, then will you acknowledge someone somewhere in the bible got it wrong?
    1
  1410. +The Derk King Yes, but waiting for a prophesy to fail and then going back after the fact, and saying it was misinterpreted, is to ensure a victory for the prophet regardless of the outcome. No one has yet provided a scientifically sound prof of the existence of a biblical God. Until that happens, these conversations are kind of moot.
    1
  1411. +The Derk King "not of a biblical God" So you agree, there's no proof? Then why are we having this discussion?
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  1412. +The Derk King "but no there's no science that can prove that God follows exactly in accordance to the Bible or the Quran or whatever text" So if there's no proof, why not do the rational thing and become an agnostic: modesty in what we don't know is another name for that. "if you want to deny that many historical events have been predicted in the Bible" So what? Lot's of people have predicted many things. It doesn't mean they're God. But I'll give you an opportunity to convince me, if you'd like to that is. Show me this alleged proof that Trump will win. It should be specific enough to test it with the proper tools of science and statistics.
    1
  1413. +The Derk I want to know where in the bible it states Trump will be the winner. I'm assuming he's not mentioned by name of course. So where does it say this, and how? A quote would be helpful here. Thanks
    1
  1414. +Rachel Rogers -- Thank you. This one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beast_(Revelation)
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  1415. +Pedro Henrique There is scientific evidence that being gay is due to biology, but it doesn't yet rise to the level of a confirmed proof. But let's say you're right, there's no evidence. That would only mean that it remains an open question. The evidence of it being a choice is also next to nonexistent. So the correct position ought to be agnosticism. cheers
    1
  1416. +Rachel Rogers -- Rachel, I hear you, and the idea there's "NO EVIDENCE" is now a woefully out of date notion. But if there is an uncontroversial absolute proof that biology is involved, wouldn't this wiki statement have been written differently? Not that wiki is always right, but it usually is on the big issues.: "The relationship between biology and sexual orientation is a subject of research. A simple and singular determinant for sexual orientation has not been conclusively demonstrated; various studies point to different, even conflicting positions, but scientists hypothesize that a combination of genetic, hormonal, and social factors determine sexual orientation."
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  1417. +Rachel Rogers -- Can you find another scientific source that claims we have 100% proof positive? The wiki statement does not use the language of proof. It states "subject of research" and "scientists hypothesize." Again, I'm with you. I believe it is largely if not entirely biology. I'm just finicky with absolute words like "proof." cheers
    1
  1418. +Rachel Rogers -- I probably know far less about this than you, but here are my thoughts. "Absolute proof" Fair enough, but what I meant was, things that aren't seriously debated anymore, such as the earth is round, evolution happened, etc. The level of certainty is over 99%. Can we yet say the same thing for gayness? The twin studies results seem be all over the map, ranging from 52 down to 7% correlation, and as the wiki entry states, there have been methodological objections that don't appear yet to have been resolved. If wiki seems off base here, please provide another source. The strongest evidence, which may relate to your "avenue 2" appears to be the birth-order-effect. Maybe that is the clincher, bringing the level of certainty up to "almost certain." Looks likeI'm being forced to rethink this. Thanks
    1
  1419. +Rachel Rogers -- One other point. There are people all over these threads who claim they know people who changed their orientation. There are so many that I don't claim to have an absolute belief they are all mistaken. But, to me, if they are being honest, these people qualify as bisexual. Would you agree?
    1
  1420. +The Derk King I would only be convinced of a compassionate and caring God if anyone could explain why horrific suffering (you know, innocent babies being blown up, being tortured to death very slowly, etc.) is necessary in this universe. Since God is all-knowing, he knows in advance all this suffering is going to happen. So he has two choices: make the universe free of the worst forms of agony and suffering; or, simply don't create mankind to begin with. If people cannot logically answer this, it says to me that such a God is logically impossible, as there is no way a caring and decent being would deliberately set in motion that which He knows will be horrific. This is known as "God and the Problem of Evil." And it doesn't just go away by saying "He works in mysterious ways." The premises of a biblical God, going by strict logic, are at odds with reality. But for the true believer, there can be no such questions. Only superficial answers. A truly modest and wise person would say "There is no proof of such a God."
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  1421. +The Derk King "chris haven't we already gone over this" We did, but I wanted to restate it with much more precision to indicate I am not satisfied with the answers I have seen, here and elsewhere. Here are some examples from your latest post. "if God were to intervene" You're drifting from the main point. God would not HAVE to intervene if he made the decision there would be no worst-case suffering to begin with. "suffering is based on the choices and consequences of others" Rather superficial reply, IMO. It presupposes great suffering HAS to exist. Why should it? God is all-powerful, so it follows He could have created a world without extreme suffering. Why didn't He? "every time you fuck up." Again, this presumes people DESERVE to suffer greatly when they f--ck up. Again, there's no need for God to intervene if He simply created a world where extreme suffering was impossible. Why didn't He? "yeah God does know everything and He already has a punishment waiting for you on the other side." If he knows everything, and He's all-powerful, He would have created perfect Beings, just like himself. cheers
    1
  1422. +The Derk King "mentality ill people as in drug users, we know that meth and cocaine stimulate an imbalance of dopamine" All of which wouldn't be a problem had God exercised His perfection and created perfect beings just like himself.
    1
  1423. +The Derk King "conquered the establishment and corruption of america" Remains to to be seen, and if so, it's at a steep price: having a deranged psychopath running America. Any truly educated person should be able to see that we've (US) elected a chronic liar, bully and total ignoramus. Did the alleged prophets predict Trump's upcoming impeachment and or resignation? That's the prediction of many sane people. cheers
    1
  1424. +The Derk King If he imposes tariffs on China/Gina, that'll be a disaster. It would cost billions to force Apple to relocate factories back to the US. His inflammatory remarks could well increase the risk of ter--ism. I'm sure he'll get himself impeached as well. Remember, this is a profoundly ignorant man who knows absolutely nothing about world affairs and has no business being president. What was it, he confused the Quds with the Kurds. I shudder to think of how many embarrassing moments he'll be having in the future.
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  1425. +Rachel Rogers "He's surrounded by the swampiest politicians and the lobbyists that control them." Though he does have that Breithart fellow, Bannon is it? But that's potentially scary in itself. That said, I do like Milo Yiannopoulos.
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  1426. ***** Yes, but God calls for the execution of gays. Is that loving?
    1
  1427. Meldon Macon There are multiple problems with your recent post. 1) It states in the Bibel that gays "shall be put to death" 2) If God exists, he never took any vows. 3) Noah's ark never existed. 4) The Bible was written by ancient peoples whose moralities were more primitive, violent and vindictive than our own. cheers
    1
  1428. Meldon Macon "That is your opinion" Yes, I agree with you. But it's interesting to me that your view, which is also opinion, was not presented in the spirit of an opinion. Most people who quote the Bible do so as if it were established fact. I thank you for being more tolerant of my opinion than many others. cheers
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  1429. mitch rawles "Tolerance is taking our country into the gutter." In some ways yes. Tolerating that which is none of anyone else's business, like consenting behavior behind closed doors, isn't one of them. cheers
    1
  1430. mitch rawles There's no evidence that homosexuality per se is bringing the US (I presume what "our" country means) into the gutter. Why don't you cite some evidence, then we can discuss.
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  1431. mitch rawles There is no evidence that homosexuality has been the cause of fallen civilizations. If you find it filthy, you are free to not practice it. Again, you make many claims without any evidence in their support.
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  1432. mitch rawles As far as normal goes, left-handedness falls into the same category as homosexuality: It may well be genetic. Statistically it is "abnormal." So what? if it doesn't hurt anyone, let it alone and do something more productive with your time.
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  1433. DeWayne Benson "homosexuality is an error, a failing to mature out of their childhood misunderstanding and mistakes." There is no evidence for this.  This view is  based primarily on an outdated Freudian model, and on the mistaken assumption that those gay men who did suffer from disordered thinking and sought psychiatric help were representative of gays in general. When more sophisticated diagnostic tools became available, and were applied to random samples of gays and straights, mental health experts could not tell the difference between them.  For more on this, please look up Evelyn Hooker on wiki. cheers
    1
  1434. mitch rawles  You have absolutely no evidence for what you say. A life-time of self-indoctrinantion has led you astray. There is no harm in being homosexual, only acts that endanger society, which includes acts by both straights and gays. If you love gays, stop calling them queer and let them be in peace. That is what a mature adult does.
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  1435. ***** "we are talking about what comes from rebellion from the word of God." And since God approves of homosexuality, there's no rebellion.
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  1436. +Riley I agree with most of what you said. My concern here is reasonable doubt. It can't be stated with anything approaching certainty that every single depressed and suicidal person no longer has meaningful free will. That to me means we give that benefit of the doubt to the defendant. That she did a very evil thing isn't really the point. The point is, can manslaughter be proven beyond a reasonable doubt here? I'd say, no, there is reasonable doubt. But it's a difficult call, and a tricky case, at least to me.
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  1437. +dr boom Let's keep the discussion civil. This case has two very interesting sides. Let's not go off into theatrical exaggerations about a legitimate controversy. It's not like I'm advocating mudering 3-year-olds in cold blood. Maybe you aren't skilled in the art of recognizing nuance and grayness in a complex world.
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  1438. +Seth Jones Far from being trivial, I take the issues here very seriously. Both sides of the case have their merits, and also unpalatable implications. If I've not made that point clear, I'm doing so now. cheers
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  1439. +Wam She only got 15 months because, contrary to what the gladiator Youtube crowd thinks, the punishment is commensurate with the crime.
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  1440. +r mac You are another example of the dark side of human nature.
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  1441. +innertubez It's perfectly fine to have mixed feelings here. The judge himself said he struggled with it. It took him 3 days to reach his verdict. My own view is that what she did was morally reprehensible. But like the ACLU, I have great concern about the notions "she literally killed Mr. Roy with her words." By saying that, it follows Mr. Roy did not kill himself. A paradox if there ever was one. The only way I would support the manslaughter conviction is if we make very clear cut guidelines about who has free will and who doesn't. Does being depressed and suicidal mean your free will is null and void? If not, then Roy has to be considered the cause of his own death. That's just how I see it. cheers
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  1442. +YENS She's a sick person. But the manslaughter charge is debatable, I think.
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  1443. Taylor Hunt  "But you most certainly can choose how you "act". You can stop being gay tomorrow if you wanted." The flaw in this reasoning is that homosexuality's primary definition is a state of mind, not behavior. That is, "having attraction" is the primary definer, not having sex. "I know an individual that has helped over 200 men to stop acting gay." The more reliable evidence comes from NARTH, the most extensive "sexual conversion therapy" I have read about. Follow up interviews have revelead it to be a spectacular failure, with only 4% of participants saying their true orientation changed.
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  1444. Taylor Hunt  "People make a choice to do it or not. That simply cannot be argued against." Once again, you are simply misdefining what homosexuality is. The primary definition is that it's an attraction, an orientation. Secondarily, it of course flows from this that those who have the attraction are likely to act on it. But you cannot separate the two, as you are doing. They are two sides of the same coin. The attraction part is not chosen, at least according to virtually the entire mental health community in the West. So, speaking of homosexuality as a choice is akin to saying "I, a straight man, can look at dick tomorrow and decide to get an erection." That is nonsense. That is not how the real world of sexual attraction works.YOU do not choose to "like dick." That is a desire that is just there, and the research shows that sexual orientation is quite fixed and difficult to change, if not impossible for most. cheers
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  1445. Taylor Hunt  "That is because they do not properly understand what the patterns of behavior of becoming gay are, and how to get out of them." If you can provide a clinical demonstration of a nonrandom sample of gay men who were able to change their actual orientation, then fine. Until such evidence is provided, it cannot be taken as absolute fact.
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  1446. Taylor Hunt  "does not mean in anyway that it is innate behavior. That simply is a false logical argument." Agreed. But it has not been established with any degree of certainty that homsexuality is NOT an innate behavior. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that it might well be.
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  1447. Taylor Hunt   "I would call NARTH unreliable." Absolutely agreed. Its findings don't hold up to scrutiny, as follow up interviews reveal. As one ex-exgay put it, "Only four percent of those who claim that “reparative” or “conversion” therapy has been successful now consider themselves to be heterosexual. Interestingly, almost all of these people work in the ex-gay counseling field. It would seem that for reparative therapy to be successful, one must quit one’s job and become an ex-gay minister and/or therapist and dedicate one’s life to it." See here for more http://thewildreed.blogspot.com/2008/03/debunking-narth-part-ii.html
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  1448. Taylor Hunt  "You can stop being gay tomorrow if you wanted." Again, as an orientation, there is absolutely no proof on offer than every gay person can do this. There is some evidence to support that some people might be able to. There is no scientific proof that everyone can. I'm curious how you would explain homosexuality in the animal kingdom, as has been well documented. The case of homosexual rams is particularly interesting. Would it be accurate to describe these rams as "having an addiction"? If the causes are presumably biological, why might not biology also play some role in human homosexuality? Is there a hard proof against this possibility? cheers
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  1449. Taylor Hunt  "One choice is unquestionably more beneficial for society, and should be an accepted normal."  I think it is precisely here were the "anti-gay" agenda often comes into play (not you necessarily.) While I share your dislike of gay activists shoving their views in your face, and queen beds with two people having sex rolling down the street during gay pride marches (I saw this once while visiting California), I think the reaction against homosexuality per se is vastly overstated. How is society primarily harmed? Probably by that portion of the gay male population that practices anal sex with multiple partners. But being gay doesn't require such behavior, as evidenced by the estimated 20-50% of gay men that do not practice such sex at all, and as well as, presumably, most lesbians. When one does the cost/benefit equation for society, I would consider the welfare of gay people who are affected by the message that there's something wrong with them. I consider, for example, all the the gay people who have tried unsuccessfully to change for years, but cannot. I consider that one in three gay teens attempts suicide. The message of intolerance is also part of the social equation, unless of course one really doesn't care about the welfare of gay people. If you want to crack down on promiscuous sex, go for it. But it's inappropriate to define homosexuality as a disease or social malady per se. If two men love each other, and they agree voluntarily to have a sexual relationship, and they go about it responsibly, once they get into the privacy of their bedroom, it really becomes no ones business what they do in there. There are far too many real issues of importance in this fragile world to be preoccupied about what goes on behind somebody else's bedroom doors. That should really be the end of the discussion, whether its choice or not. cheers
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  1450. Taylor Hunt  My basic answer to your last post is the same one I gave above. If you can produce or provide a proof of your view that would pass muster in a science publication, then you have a case. Until then, you don't have a proof, only an opinion. By contrast, the current majority view in the mental health establishment in the US is that biology probably plays a role in homosexuality, and that it is very difficult if not impossible to change. That's also an opinion. But it's also based on scientific studies. Are your views also based on scientific evidence? That's my view. Take it or leave it.
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  1451. Taylor Hunt  "So saying that not "every" gay person can do this is taking an extreme. How is that valid? Not every person can stop eating sugar if you place it in the same room, because they have no personal control." There are many reasons why a person might not be able to change. It may have nothing to do with "self control." Here are some other possibilities 1- There may be different causes of homosexuality, which might give some people an advantage in their ability to change. 2- It may be there are no such people. Unless you interview them carefully, you cannot be sure their actual orientation changed, or whether it was merely that they were successful at repressing the urge, not actually getting rid of it. 3- It may that there are degrees of bisexuallity: the more bisexuality you have, the more likely you may be able to convince yourself you have changed The bottom line for me is, you have this vast body of evidence - some of it biological - that indicates changing one's orientation has little evidence in its support. If that orientation works for you, and doesn't harm anyone else, why torment yourself by trying to change it? Sometimes its better to let some things be. For me, better to focus on ISIS, nuclear terrorism, global warming, and a host of far more important things that could lead to a breakdown of society than an obsession over the fact that 3-5% of men prefer men over women. cheers
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  1452. Taylor Hunt  Thank you for your reply "Once you open the door to homosexual relationships, how do you draw the line?" One doesn't have to be in favor of gay marriage to accept that homosexuals can behave morally. I did not specifically raise the issue of gay marriage. My feeling is that, given the promiscuous element in many gay men, wouldn't marriage act as an incentive to cut down on multiple partners and stay committed to one person? That to me would be a positive to society. But unlike many gay activists I'm not going to clobber you over the head for disagreeing with me.
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  1453. Taylor Hunt  "If you would like that discussion we can have it." While I am not terribly religious, I am certainly aware that much of the case against a homosexual lifestyle, or condoning it, is driven by religious belief. That's something I can respect up to a certain level. So if you want to further on this topic, please do so!
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  1454. Taylor Hunt  "I think you and I both know there are behavioral patterns emerging from youth in high percentages of gays. Sexual abuse of some form from a young age and mast. are two clear markers." I'm not sure I understand all of that. But if you're suggesting gayness correlates with sexual abuse, I have had that discussion before, and believe it is probably unfounded. BUT, I am open to a discussion.
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  1455. Taylor Hunt  "against all common sense?" YOUR edition of common sense perhaps.Not mine or everyone else's necessarily. To me it goes profoundly against reality that people choose their sexual orientation. Kindly answer this, if you feel you can. Could you wake up tomorrow and simply make a decision that you will look at pictures of dick and force yourself to become aroused? That to me flies in the face of common sense. I cannot imagine myself being able to accomplish such a feet. I think if you ask most straight men if they could do this, they would find it about as uncommon sense as any other bizarre notion they've come across. That is not how the reality of sexual attraction works. You cannot just say, "tomorrow morning at 11:05 am I will become homosexual. Now, I will put myself on the line. I don't like to discuss this terribly often, but I will give you my trust, as you seem to be openminded relative to most others who debate this.I am one of those people whom you would claim has the bad addiction under discussion. I can assure you that I don't like it one bit. I have been this way since my very first memories. I have consulted therapists. I have done everything in my power to try and change this. It has failed 100%. I can tell you from my own inner knowledge of self that is about as fixed as the nose on my face. I have also no real attraction to the opposite gender, so it's not as if I rejected it and wandered off to experiment with the so-called addiction. It is total speculation and presumption, and am insult to my intelligence for some third party who has a totally unproved theory to tell me I can change this. I'm not trying to say by any means that you are trying to insult me. I know you are not. But when you have the most intimate knowledge of yourself, and have had this intimate knowledge for decades, if you don't have solid data or experience to prove that absolutely any and every gay person can change, it is totally wrong to say this to me. It is presumption. It is personal speculation. It is hubris. It is belief. It is an act of faith.What it is not is proof. When someone is told they don't understand their true nature, that is the most anti-common sense thing I can think of. Obviously, my story is hardly unique. But I will not allow anyone to pretend they are more qualified than me to know what goes on in my mind and my emotions. That is simply out of bounds. OK, those are my two cents. Any responses welcome
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  1456. Taylor Hunt  "Frankly, I don't have any more time." Understood. At least you and I apparently have a life, unlike some characters on here.
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  1457. Taylor Hunt  I appreciate the offer and I will think it over. Are you claiming that those who have changed really were able to completely rid themselves of homosexual attraction? Or was it merely a behavioral adaption where they forced themselves not act on their real urges? How many gay men started to have a real drive toward "p--sy"? I don't have that drive, I can't conceive of how to force myself to have it. At the very least that should prove that to you it's not a conscious choice. Would you at least agree with that? I didn't just wake up one morning and say, I think I'll stop liking p--sy and start liking d--k. That never happened to me. So clearly it was not a choice, regardless of whether its changeable. Does that at least make sense to you? cheers
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  1458. Taylor Hunt  "it is immoral behavior" I haven't seen you make this case just yet. How exactly is it immoral?
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  1459. Taylor Hunt  "If there is one person that has changed  and no longer believes they are gay then your argument is false" It doesn't follow. Even if it were true that some small % of gays can change, it does not follow that gays "choose" to be gay. I am a case in point. I did not consciously ever choose it. Will you accept I am telling you the truth?
    1
  1460. Taylor Hunt  "define immoral, this will be interesting" I don't know whom you are addressing. My basic view is as follows. We are most likely hard-wired for some basic moral tendencies, as recent research suggests. Beyond this, I would argue that we tend to call immoral that which is deemed to be taking away arbitrarily a basic right from someone; behavior which is motivated by cruelty; behavior which is destructive to society, and so on. Now, my challenge to you is: if two gay men love each other, and practice safe monogamous sex in the privacy of their own bedroom, how would this be inherently immoral in light of my criteria above?. If you are saying SOME homosexual behavior is immoral, sure. But to state it as an absolute: "it is immoral behavior" without qualification is certainly not self-evident to me and many other sensible and thoughtful people. cheers
    1
  1461. Taylor Hunt  " If gays change, then gays do not "choose" to be gay? This statement, paraphrased, makes NO sense." No, obviously if gays do genuinely change, that is a choice. But that doesn't mean they chose gayness to begin with. THAT was the point I was making!! Here's an obvious example. IF gayness is hormonal and or genetic in its origin (the final verdict is still out), that would mean that presumably gayness is not chosen. But if therapy (chemical or behavioral) can override the chemical tendency one is born with, then you have the criteria I mentioned met: 1) A person is born gay or with gay tendency 2) chemical or chemical therapy can override the inborn chemical tendency, thus allowing a choice. I'm not saying if this is or is not positively the case. But I can assure you that I never made an INITIAL conscious choice to find men attractive and women not attractive. That proves 100% your theory that ALL gays choose the attraction is completely wrong. The only way you can maintain this theory is to say I am lying to you. cheers
    1
  1462. Taylor Hunt  "How do you define basic rights?" Well, you ask the tough questions. A theory of basic rights is questionable, and I don't pretend my theories are anything more than a rough set of intuitions. The term "basic right" is I think meant to convey the notion that it is inherently part of YOU and not part of someone else or society. So the argument would go, if you (your body, your mind) and the behavior that flows from you do not negatively or unfairly impact others, it is your "basic right" to behave in such ways.
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  1463. Taylor Hunt  "THANK YOU CCHRIS!! You win the prize for being the first person to admit that gay behavior can be changed" I believe you have misread me. Note that in the discussion above, the notion of gays being able to change is in the conditional tense only. For example I wrote "if gays do genuinely change," not THAT they necessarily do.
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  1464. Taylor Hunt  "I feel like we are going in circles here." That makes two of us. "I can't believe after all the arguments you are still stuck on minutia." I don't see it that way at all. My views are quite basic and definite:  1) I did not choose feelings of gay attraction 2) Most if not all gays do not choose the attraction 3) Homosexual "behavior" is not inherently harmful
    1
  1465. Taylor Hunt  "I can't go further until you answer these questions." I have been spending the last hour or so trying to answer many of your questions: rights, what is immoral, why is some behavior immoral. I think we can get to the root of these issues by going back to the basics. So now, I will ask you a question:  Do you accept that homosexual attraction (as opposed to behavior) is not chosen? That is, a person will not generally speaking act homosexually if the attraction is not there to begin with. If it WAS NOT there to begin with, how did said gay person create it? THAT's the most basic question here, it seems to me.
    1
  1466. Taylor Hunt  "Do you believe have temptations? Have you been tempted to do things wrong? Do you feel it is all internal?" OK, let's go with that. Let's define homosexual attraction as a "temptation." If that's the case, then heterosexuality is also a "temptation." Let's stop and see if we are on the same page so far. Would you agree that if homosexuality is a temptation, so is heterosexuality?
    1
  1467. Taylor Hunt  "No, one is natural and the other is not." OK, let me approach this a little differently.  Very simple question. Have you yourself ever had homosexual urges, [edit]or temptations as you would put it,[end edit] the way gay people do?
    1
  1468. Taylor Hunt  "A basic right is part of you? Theory of basic rights is questionable? What is clear is confusion." There is no confusion. A basic right WOULD be that which is inherently a part of you that is inviolable. The question is, can one actually provide a coherent irrefutable proof that "rights" exist, and spell out exactly what all of them are? I'm not sure. Can anyone? Has anyone? As to Dennis Prager, I watched or heard the youtube video with Christopher Hitchens some weeks ago, and I have to say I do not find Prager to be either a tolerant person or having convincing arguments. Example: he stated toward the end of the show that he believes the morality in the Bible cannot be explained by human beings - too sophisticated, or words to that effect, as I recall. To me, it is a no-brainer. A loving Being does not advocate the killing of children because they cursed at their parents. That's all the proof I need that God did not write Leviticus. But I can provide many other reasons why the notion of God is contradicted by both the Bible and by reality. just my views of course.
    1
  1469. MrWar2244  "Also god killed 2 million or billion" The way I look at it is, God (allegedly)created all of us knowing (he's omniscient) we would all die. If so, he designed us to die. One good estimate is about 80 billion homo sapiens have existed, of which about 73 billion have died. That would make God the biggest mass murderer in history (and pre-history). Not even Hitler or Stalin could hope to hold a candle to God's record of sheer brutality. Apparently God slept through the holocaust; and sleeps through earthquakes, starvation, disease, you name it. If God, in the biblical sense, really exists, why didn't he just create 80 billion perfect beings like himself? God and the problem of evil has never been given a satisfactory explanation, I think it's fair to say. cheers
    1
  1470. Taylor Hunt  "So by that logic if you breed puppies you are a murderer, or if you have a child you are a murderer." Last I heard, murder refers to people, not puppies.  In any case, the analogy with parents having children is not a good one IMO because God had the option (unlike parents) of creating a universe without death and suffering. He (allegedly) chose death and suffering instead. The better analogy would be if a couple gave birth to a sick child, but, knowing that medical treatment would mean the difference between living for 5 years vs a normal life expectancy, they would choose against the medicine. THAT is God for you. He is the couple who withheld the medicine from humanity. And all that suffering we brought on ourselves, and therefore we deserve it, right? He didn't have to do it that way, being omnipotent. Maybe isn't omnipotent then? The contradictions, paradoxes and refutations of a Biblical God are all around us if we choose to step back for a moment and see things without the filter of the religious lens. OK, as we can see, you and I should stick to homosexuality, as you and I are unlikely to resolve our religious differences on Youtube. :)
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  1471. Taylor Hunt  Now, to get back on track, can you tell me if you are up for it of course, if you have ever been tempted by homosexuality at any time in your life? Thank you
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  1472. Taylor Hunt  Whenever you have the proof that the bible is the word of God, and a convincing explanation why a loving God would advocate putting children to death for cursing (Leviticus), kindly let me know. These are perfectly reasonable questions for thoughtful non-religious people to ask. You do not have to be a clown to ask them.
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  1473. Taylor Hunt  Look, the only thing I have said that is a bit hyperbolic is to suggest parents are murderers for having kids. But If you read between the lines, I was trusting you would figure out the intended meaning. GIVEN the option to prolong the life of a sick child, to not do so is about as monstrous as murder. So, if an allegedly loving, benign, omniscient and omnipotent being creates a world with guaranteed death when he doesn't have to; creates the concept of suffering when he doesn't have to, this amounts to guaranteeing billions of deaths and untold suffering. THAT is the analogy. If a parent behaves like this, it amounts to murder in my book. It seems to me everything else I have said or asked is completely within the realm of the discussible. cheers
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  1474. Taylor Hunt  And yes, I do want to learn something very specific: what causes you and me to see reality so differently in regards to homosexuality. Understanding where the basic difference lie will help me and perhaps you. Neither you or I have yet established with a proof that 1) homosexual attraction is or is not found in some people but not others 2) That its causes could be partly or even wholly biological. 3) That if two loving men practice safe sex, it is somehow immoral or sinful. I am trying to understand what is driving your views on these questions.
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  1475. Taylor Hunt  You are simply saying that when one has strong arguments and questions that contradict your beliefs, you do not want to go there. Your points of view are mostly on a surface level. I aim at a deeper understanding of reality. For example: God and the problem of evil. It's a profound question that philosophers have pondered. But to you it's for clowns only. Right? As regards homosexuality, you have failed to prove any of your central points: that it's just a temptation rather than an attraction as basic as heterosexuality; that biology plays no role; that it's immoral. You haven't even come CLOSE to establishing any of these points. I was thinking I could engage you on a deeper level. Perhaps I cannot. An example of superficial thinking: Your insistence that if one gay can change, all of them can. That's nonsense: the medical literature is filled with examples of treatments that cure some people of a disease or illness, but not everyone. Your model of "all or none" should thus be self-evidently false. 100% effectiveness is rare. You should already know that. This is what i mean by the largely superficial tier of your points. You can call me manipulative. It's an easy way to cop out of an argument. However, this is your thread, and if you want to end, why don't we leave on good terms. I have enjoyed much of the dialogue despite our difference, cheers
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  1476. Taylor Hunt  "I never said all or none." OK, my apology, but I am basing it on this comment: "Even someone born gay, may struggle with that their whole life, but they can change." To say they can change implied to me you are claiming EVERY SINGLE gay person can make the change. That to me means ALL gays can make the change, i.e. a 100% success rate if they make the effort. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted that.
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  1477. Taylor Hunt  If that's the case, then you agree not all gays can change?
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  1478. Taylor Hunt  I don't know why when I ask you a basic question you then throw at me a ton of questions rather than simply answering it. That said, I will do my best to be a good sport. :) :) "why it is immoral for a man to have sex with a child" The primary reason is because the general consensus is that the potential for emotional harm is extremely high; and also because little kids are thought to lack the ability to understand the implications if they give consent. Thus, we do not allow a child to go into the ocean with a dangerous undertow, even if the child "freely chooses it." I will go back and try to answer all of your other questions. cheers
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  1479. Taylor Hunt  "Anybody can change something, again to say otherwise is silly." Not if the orientation is fixed. The entire mental health community seems to be rather united on this point. Dennis Prager agrees me, and he cannot be regarded as a left-liberal pro-gay PC type of person. Maybe he is silly too then? "Self-hating gays" who are desperate to change but have been unsuccessful also by definition agree with me. Your theory that you can simply will away an attraction if you try hard enough flies in the face of reality. It ignores the true nature of the urges. As I said, can you honestly tell me that you could force yourself to become attracted to men? Most people I have talked with say they cannot. So why the insistence that anyone can change? Can you cite clinical evidence, or is it just your personal experience and personalized version of "common sense."? Maybe we have to agree to disagree on this point.  cheers
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  1480. Taylor Hunt  Below is a very long post where I have tried to the best of my ability to answer all of your questions. I think it better to put in one post for ease of reference. Hence very long! “Do biological factors (as was heavily sold by media) say that someone cannot choose differently?” The evidence that I’ve looked at suggests biology may well play a role. We certainly know that it does in some animal species, as presumably we do not ascribe choice to animals. Can you or I positively rule out biology as an important determinant of sexual orientation? How can one begin to formulate an absolute proof against biology given the present incomplete state of the evidence? (Here, unlike some, I do not assume we have a proof yet that biology causes gayness.) As to whether biology can be overridden, that is quite speculative, I would think. “Once yo open the door to homosexual relationships, how do you draw the line? Polyamorous couples would say you are outdated and biased against them. What about marriage to 3 women, polygamy, or even children (all real cases)."] (already answered) “Can you provide evidence that is not heavily biased?” Haven't looked into it. Can you provide proof that it IS biased? “So who decides who is an adult and can make their own decisions?"  It has ultimately to be answered by each person’s sense of reality. The final legal decision determines this of course, but it’s the thinking of many individuals that informs the resulting decision. “If gays change, then gays do not "choose" to be gay?” IF they do change, that may well be due to a choice. My position is, until I see clinicalevidence that most gays, including your selected results from the people you believe have changed, can actually change their true inner orientation, I remain skeptical. “How do yo define basic rights?” (Alreadyanswered) “Why is some homosexual behavior immoral, and others not?” (already answered two days ago) “Can a person in an enabling environment make someone more susceptible to being gay (by your definition of thinking they are gay)?” I would say the verdict is not out on that, but the short answer is, not likely. No publically available evidence really supports that, at least what I’ve seen. Could it be true for some? I can’t rule it out.  “Can individuals do nasty things to children to make them more likely to be gay?” Same answer as above. Does there exist solid evidence one way or the other?  “Can a person think they are gay, then think they are not gay all in the same month?”  Sure. Lot’s of people worry if they are gay for all sorts of reasons: a paradigm example isthe kid that becomes aroused in the doctors office. Clearly, that can just be a physical automatic response from being touched, and may have nothing to do with being gay. “Can rejection by the opposite sex make someone feel gay?”  I would assume it could cause them to worry about it. But I doubt it could cause themto begin having raw attraction to the same sex. “Can societal/social reinforcements make someone think they are gay?”  I’m sure it could. Again, whether it really can influence their actually acquiring sexualattraction to the same sex remains an unproven idea. I would once again be quite skeptical.  “All of these affect someone's conscious independent decision making, do they not?”  They may well affect lots of decisions. The key question remains, however, do theyactually result in the ability of a gay person to “decide” to acquire sexual attraction towards a person of the same sex? I would say the evidence is poor, and it goes against the true nature of sexual attraction, as well as common sense. Granted, you have a different notion of what constitutes common sense here.  “You are explaining lust, not love.” Homosexuality is DEFINED in terms of sex. It’s not just love, it’s sexual love. You cannotspeak about the issue if you leave sex out of the equation. “Is someone who has thoughts of cheating on his wife an adulterer? . . .Obviously not, then why do we can someone with a "gay thought" gay? The onlypossible reason is for political purposes.” Again, this reflects a belief you have which IMO is fundamentally mistaken. You make anunproven assumption that “adulterousness” is much the same as a sexual orientation. It simply is not an established fact as I see it. I would liken sexual orientation more to powerful and unstoppable emotions such as grief. Does one “choose” to feel grief? Of course not. It’s a powerful emotion that overcomes us when we suffer a loss. No one would speak of grief as a “temptation” or a choice. Of course, the WAY you choose to grieve is open to choice; and that is the part that maps to homosexual choice: the emotion is involuntary; the behavioral reaction is open to choice. I think frankly you fail fundamentally to see what homosexuality is really about. It’s not just a passing temptation; it is as rigorous and as powerful and as basic as heterosexual attraction. Why would one think that homosexuality is a casual drive easily overridden by will power, but not heterosexuality? That IMHO is the single biggest stumbling block to your understanding of this issue. “Again, do people get addicted to sex?” In the technical sense, no. But in the metaphorical sense, of course. But once again,the addiction refers to behavior; the sex drive itself is a basic fixed part of human nature.  “Does it hurt a child if they do not have a mother or a father?” Good question. I’m willing to speculate that all other things equal, better to havea mommy and a daddy. On the other hand, I would rather place a child in the hands of a loving gay couple over an abusive straight one.   “Do you believe have temptations? Have you been tempted to do things wrong? Do you feel it is all internal?” I do, but I don’t regard homosexuality as a temptation in your sense because I don’t thinkit’s wrong, which seems to be a criterion for your understanding of “temptation.” On the other hand, one definition of “temptation” is simply “a strong desire or urge.” In that sense, homosexuality and heterosexuality are equally temptations depending on who you are.   I hope I have answered all of your questions. Let me know if I missed any.
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  1481. Taylor Hunt  I'm sorry, but I gave you a good faith answer: it is harmful to the child. What more can I say? WHY it is harmful is a very interesting question, and people might disagree as to why. The answer I gave is perfectly reasonable.
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  1482. Taylor Hunt  Now if you want, maybe it will help if I give my basic definition of immoral / immorality -That which is motivated by cruelty - Behavior which is inherently harmful to others -That which may be indirectly harmful to other or to society If it doesn't meet these criteria, I would have a hard time using the language of immorality. Kindly note, that whether you agree with me or not, this is basically more or less the definition of "common sense" morality in the US. We pay our taxes. We refrain from hurting others. We have laws that also regulate what one may do because of indirect or hard to see consequences. Now of course, some would add conditions like "unnatural, sinful, etc." I stay away from that because without the criterion of provable harm, what is "sin" and "unnatural" are not terms that we can get reasonable people to all agree on. Like: homosexuality !! One person's sin may be another's happiness. It get's us nowhere. Just my two cents, but you would agree i think that such a view is hardly unique among thoughtful and sensible people.
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  1483. Taylor Hunt   "So what if the adult says it does not harm the child, and the child likes it. Why is it immoral?" Because the question of harm is not determined by what the adult says or what the child likes. It's determine by the evidence, which shows that the behavior is harmful; and the fact that we recognize as a society that children are not equipped nearly as well (in general) to determine whether all behaviors are harmful to them.
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  1484. Taylor Hunt  Before continuing with you, will you grant that I am making good faith efforts to be serious and answer your questions? Thanks
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  1485. Taylor Hunt  I appreciate your answer and no offense taken. I am surprised that some might think that immorality might not be primarily a function of harm. I am simply out of time for today, and I will continue tomorrow if you still wish to go forward. I'm not a troll, and the proof is that if you say you wish to call it a day, i will let it go. cheers
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  1486. Taylor Hunt  "Then there is omission and commission morality, etc, etc." Of course. I am defining "behavior" to include the "decision not to act" when action is called for. "Harm to self is another concept of morality." This seems to be more debated than harm to others. I personally don't find it useful to speak of "being immoral to myself," though I agree with the basic concept that self-destructive behavior can be seen as not rational. From there, it's a short step to calling it "immoral." So if I don't quite like to use the term, I could agree with the general implications of using this language in certain instances.
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  1487. Taylor Hunt  "Children disagree with you and they think you are immoral for restricting their right to have fun." My justification would be based on the fact that rational adults can marshall evidence to show that letting children do what they want can be highly dangerous at times. As a generalization, children cannot muster evidence and judge it wisely the way you and I can. We can also test that to some extent by looking at obvious examples of unsupervised children and the harm that has happened to many of them.
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  1488. Taylor Hunt  "Some children have better understanding than adults, should they have different morality?" I'm not following this. Different morality than adults? I guess I'm not clear what you mean.
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  1489. +jeffsor To me it's all about context. There are no absolutes here. Some people found his joke offensive. Others did not. There doesn't seem to be a consensus among thoughtful people about absolute banning of this word. So let's just accept that some issues have no absolutely objective right or wrong opinions, and let it go at that.
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  1490. +My Salvation How do you respond to the fact that some black people don't agree with you?
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  1491. +My Salvation "The reason being, they haven't gone thru the shit we've been thru" How would you know that?
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  1492. +cece jones  "I understand everything that you are saying and I really respect you. You are extremely nice and I am very surprised by that. Not because you are not a nice person or anything but because alot of people usually attack Christians for their staunch beliefs on this issue. Again, I am very surprised but very thankful as well. With that being said though I understand where you are coming from what your saying does not really add up and seems kind of biased. Where does the "moral compass" you are talking about come from? Also what about all the criminals and other people who choose not to use their moral compass? In my opinion you have a few holes in your theory. Lastly, have you ever the Bible? Alot of what you say is based off of false assumptions." I would think we all have our biases, and I certainly approach the subject with a certain pre-existing view that it is highly dubious all of the Bible is the literal word of God. Being Agnostic/leaning towards atheism is in one sense a bias. Just as belief the Bible is the literal word of God is a kind of bias. That said, I try my best to separate opinions from known facts. For example, I readily admit I do not have a proof one way or the other about whether God exists, or the Bible is his literal word.   I'd like to focus on one of my previous points. If we rely too much on the Bible, are we then in essence saying we are giving up some of our own judgement about matters right and wrong? As I stated, there aren't that many passages in the Bible about homosexuality. Suppose for the sake of argument the Bible had nothing to say about homosexuality. Would you still feel it was a sin? If not, would you still find it to be wrong for, say, 2 men to have a sexual relationship? And if so, what reasons might you give? Thanks
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  1493. Elpenga Grande If their lifestyle leads to extinction, would you care to explain why they (and we) are still here? "Butt-f---ery" is not synonymous with gay males, as surveys and studies indicate a large % of straight couples practice it; and a large % of gay men do not practice it. Nor is anal sex the most popular form of  "gay sex." It's this ridiculously stupid definition that leads to the stunning failure of logic we see in post after post of the hater, the simple minded, and the just plain stupid, of which you are clearly one. But what else is new in the land of bigotry. cheers
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  1494. Elpenga Grande "Personal insults aren't going to change the fact that homosexuality is unnatural." That is not using logic or intelligence effectively. "unnatural" can mean several things, such as 1- not occurring in nature 2- not the norm in nature 3- not correlating with the facts of human anatomy 4- "deviating from a behavioral or social norm" 5- same as 4 but with the added provision that such deviance is immoral or inappropriate. So, homosexuality is unnatural by definitions 2, 3, 4; but not by 1, and a matter of opinion only in 5 Thus one might say of homosexuality that it is unnatural, unnatural, unnatural, natural, and both natural and unnatural. So, does such a term really help settle anything? cheers
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  1495. phoenix1985 "There are some who prey exclusively on boys or girls. Doesnt make them gay or straight." I see two distinct issues here. 1) The semantics: whether the gay/straight terminology applies to pedophiles. I gather that based on both custom, and the definition of these terms, this terminology doesn't apply to pedophiles. Fair enough! 2) Whether there is reality to the notion (not the terminology)  that some men who desire only boy children, do so because the maleness of the child (e.g. having a penis, etc) is a necessary condition for their  arousal / desire. IF that is the case (not saying it is in fact the case), then don't we have a valid distinction within the pedophile model that more or less maps to the gay/straight distinction? I think that's a valid question. Maybe you would know the answer to it? cheers
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  1496. Elpenga Grande Having done a little research in the last 24 hours, I think the main point is really this. Pedophilia  - whether a preference for boys or girls - is a distinct phenomenon from sexual orientation towards adults. They have different mechanisms and causes. Thus, attraction to boys may in the broadest sense be construed as a form homosexuality; but it does not correlate with or map to homosexual attraction towards adults. In other words, you would have to show that all the male pedophiles who prefer boys are a subset of the  SAME men who self-identify as gay in surveys of the prevalence of homosexuality. Until such proof is provided, it is speculative only to try and make an inherent connection between the two. cheers
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  1497. Elpenga Grande So, what exactly is your point. That one can't be a responsible gay person?
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  1498. +kunou126 -- Who are you replying to??
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  1499. +JamesHLanier There will always be sexism in America. The question is: how much?
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  1500. +JamesHLanier And what do we do about it?
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  1501. +JamesHLanier Thank you for your reply. "The wage gap is relevant though because the cause is sexism." I don't think it's that simple. For example, from wiki:  " The raw wage gap data shows that a woman would earn roughly 73.7% to 77% of what a man would earn over their lifetime. However, when controllable variables are accounted for, such as job position, total hours worked, number of children, and the frequency at which unpaid leave is taken, in addition to other factors, a U.S. Department of Labor study, conducted by the CONSAD Research Group, found in 2008 that the gap can be brought down from 23% to between 4.8% and 7.1%" The wage gap is also largely explained by marriage. Single men and women w/o children shows a much smaller income difference, leading economist Thomas Sowell to state the real wage gap is between "married women and everyone else."   So if sexism does play a major role, it's not necessarily in the form of employer discrimination.
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  1502. +JamesHLanier OK, you;re right, serious debate means acknowledging and correcting inaccurate characterizations. My 3) went too far. Income inequality is one of the most basic measures of injustice in the minds of many. As for my 2) above, if you concede that statistical differences don't always reflect injustice, then the issue becomes one of proof vs. assumption. The overall pay gap = sexism, I would argue, is an assumption for which proof is not generally asked. If it is, then we see that the pay gap is not an appropriate measure of employer discrimination. My main argument is that the pay gap for the most part is not a function of employer discrimination.The 23 cents on the dollar statistic is an aggregate statistic on the overall difference in pay between men and women. It's not addressing "unequal pay for doing the exact same work." Yet it has constantly been twisted out of context to mean exactly that. Can we start by acknowledging that this is a gross misinterpretation and misuse of the numbers?
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  1503. +JamesHLanier "And so is the pay gap, but there may be other contributing factors too." That's an assumption in need of proof. A more accurate characterization, IMO, is to say the vast majority of the pay gap is not employers being sexist, but there is a residual that cannot be readily explained, and is generally now seen as about 4-7% of the total pay gap. There is not enough information to determine the causes of this residual. Tell me why this is an extreme view. "Whether it's 23 or 11 or 1, ALL are absolutely unacceptable." For doing the exact same work, I agree. But for the aggregate pay gap in general, that's up for debate. "And you know that even among the exact same job, there are pay discrepancies between men and women. " Agreed.
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  1504. +JamesHLanier I only agreed there are pay discrepancies in the exact same job. I never said that most of the wage gap is due to this. It isn't. cheers
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  1505. +JamesHLanier -- Wikipedia: for sources, go to article below and click on the footnotes: "In the United States, the average female's unadjusted annual salary has been cited as 78% of that of the average male.[6] However, multiple studies from OECD, AAUW, and the US Department of Labor have found that pay rates between males and females varied by 5-6.6% or, females earning 94 cents to every dollar earned by their male counterparts, when wages were adjusted to different individual choices made by male and female workers in college major, occupation, working hours, and maternal leave. The remaining 6% of the gap has been speculated to originate from deficiency in salary negotiating skills and sexual discrimination.[7][8][9][10] In the UK, the gender pay gap has continued to close and as of 2012, the gap officially dropped below 10% for full-time workers.[11][12] The gender pay gap can also be viewed as a generational sliding scale with females between 55-65 with the largest disparity (18%) and females between the ages of 25-35 with the smallest disparity (6%).[13]"
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  1506. +GunRecon 11 Whatever her reasoning, it only serves to create confusion, with some male viewers undoubtedly taking this the wrong way, and concluding this type of behavior is in fact acceptable.
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  1507. Yehuda Goldberg  Your problem is you haven't spelled out why homosexuality is inherently immoral. You need an argument. It's not self-evident. (If it were, there would be no debate about it.) Nor does it follow that free will applies to everything. Some things cannot be accomplished with free will. Some obvious examples: willing yourself to grow wings; not feeling horrible after losing your family in an accident; a rain dance to bring about rainfall; not feeling intense pain when your hand is held above an open flame; and homosexual attraction: there is no solid evidence that it can be willed away or willed into unless one is bisexual. cheers
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  1508. +no1aviator I will take at face value the fact some people are honest and accurate when they say they have changed. But we also must take at face value the claims of countless others who are gay and have been unable to change (including me.)The debate thus cannot be furthered by accepting as honest claims on each side. You cannot tell me that because some people claim to have changed, that this proves I can change, anymore than those who claim they can't change is proof positive everyone else cannot change either. That line of reasoning is self refuting. But on a deeper level, I think it's manifest that people do not choose their deepest emotions. If a man went to prison straight, and came out gay, it doesn't mean he chose to change. An analogy might help here: Jack falls in love with Jane. Then later he falls out of love with Jane and falls exclusively in love with Mary. None of this means that Jack chose any of these attractions. Note the very nature of the phrase "to fall in love." Love is not something one chooses. Love chooses you. That's the simple misconception that informs much of these discussions. In this deeper sense, sexual orientation is not chosen, whether people can change or not being irrelevant. cheers
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  1509. +William A Hibbert He hasn't said much. That some people go into prison straight and claim to come out gay says little because 1) That one has changed doesn't mean it was a conscious choice 2) That some people change doesn't mean all people can 2) Some prisoners are bisexual to begin with Carson may be an excellent surgeon, but brain surgery doesn't make one an expert in psychology. Nor does it explain all of his other ridiculous musings and alleged direct messages from God. The good Lord may have helped him on his chemistry finals, but apparently felt differently about his run for president. And for that I do thank Him.
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  1510. But all this misses the point that female breasts are not exactly equivalent to male breasts. We ought to acknowledge this before we take a side here.
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  1511. +Jose Stickman If she didn't apologize, I agree with you. At the same time, it was said she lost track of the kid for only a few seconds. My point would be, none of this provers she's an irresponsible parent because absolute perfection doesn't exist. If this was her only lapse in 4 years of raising this kid, it would be unfair to condemn her for being a bad parent. What I'm finding in these threads is this wild speculating that if a mistake is made, one deserves the wrath of the whole world. Enough is enough.
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  1512. +Stephen As someone who has suffered from depression, you cannot just say every single depressed or suicidal person is mentally incompetent. Would you give Roy a free pass to kill someone else just because he's depressed? This means there's reasonable doubt. That benefit should IMO be granted to her, even though I agree she deserves some jail time for her horrible and evil behavior. Just as suicide is complex, so is the notion of manslaughter by words. As one legal analyst put it, it's like trying to push a square peg into a round hole. With all this grayness, the proper thing to do is to accept that the law is overreaching its proper bounds here. Of course, that just my own personal opinion, and I welcome healthy debate and disagreement. cheers
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  1513. +Daisy Agreed, except there's reasonable doubt.
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  1514. +Benny But there' a big difference. Manson case fits the definition of murder. Carter Roy case goes against the usual parameters of manslaughter.
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  1515. Probably because transit in general, and school buses in particular ,are orders of magnitude safer than private cars.
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  1516. "Yeah. Its influenced. They're not born that way." Of course infants don't have sexual attraction, so far as we know. But you have to go by science. The science of sexual attraction does not yet have definitive answers in this area.
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  1517. +Brandon Colley -- They don't like him because he's got wacky beliefs, such as "Anarchy could cancel the 2016 election." (not even close); the theory of evolution was "encouraged by the Devil."; no global warming; God intervened to help him get the answers to his Chemistry exam; “Putin is a one-horse, uh, country. Oil and energy,” an undecipherable answer during one of the presidential debates; He's one weird dude.
    1
  1518. mitch rawles  And you have not an iota of proof that Jesus was the Lord, or any of the other things you claim. You accept it all blindly - without questioning - just like those who follow orders and cannot think for themselves. You have no proof. NONE. ZERO. Supposing I said to you, "I am the Lord." You would insist on some sort of proof, wouldn't you? You might as well believe in unicorns, mermaids, and Santa. Who cares? Without evidence it's no different than claims about Jesus.
    1
  1519. mitch rawles  OK, I'll have a look.
    1
  1520. mitch rawles "you have no Word  of God -you have no Holy Ghost-you are lost." I could just as well say to you, "you have rejected the Quran. You are lost" Each of the above are equally meaningless without an accompanying proof. If you were raised in a Muslim society, you would unquestionably accept Allah and the Quran a the exact word of God. Just as if you grew up in a Mormon society, you would be preaching the book of Mormon. And if you grew up in a hindu society, Buddha would be your gold standard. Can you not see how you have blindly embraced a powerful ideology reinforced by the unquestioning assumptions of your family and your church, based on the society in which you were born? Or is it supposed to all just be coincidence? The fact that no proof of the Bible as the word of God has been offered should cause you to ask, "How can I have knowledge of this?"
    1
  1521. mitch rawles "Checkmate Atheist-Scientist discover God" is not an exact match to anything. Kindly provide exact title or link. Thanks.
    1
  1522. mitch rawles  So do you agree with Schroeder that evolution happened?
    1
  1523. Keksi "There is a cure and it is a disease." It doesn't fit the medical definition of disease.
    1
  1524. carthainian  There's a reason why no one is responding to your post.
    1
  1525. Total 100% agreement. I was challenged in Bermuda by a ground agent because I was taking a picture as I walked up the steps to board a Delta flight. She literally yelled at me from the tarmac. Since I knew she had no power over me because of the crowd of people behind me on the stairs, I completely ignored her, pretended I didn't hear her, and she kept shouting "Sir, sir." It was a rare moment of outsmarting the dull and stupid at their own game, Like, how is the world harmed by taking a picture of the backs of people and the nose of a delta plane?????? The world is truly a screwed up place, even if,as Cenk says, this is nothing in the broad scheme of things. But the attitude and the bureaucracy and the stupidity and the desperation to blindly follow stupid rules all come from the same place. They are the hallmark of the mediocre.
    1
  1526. +Guang Yi Cheong I'll modify what I wrote above. The original "jumbo jet" was a nickname for the 747 only. But over time the term came to be used more casually for any wide body twin-aisle aircraft, or even just a "large airliner." as reflected in these definitions: The Free Dictionary: "1. (Aeronautics) a type of large jet-propelled airliner that carries several hundred passengers" The Free Dictionary: "a widebody jet airliner." Cambridge dictionary: "a very ​large ​aircraft that can ​carry a lot of ​people." Dictionary.com "a widebody jet airliner." So the best answer I should have given is: the term has evolved over time, and it's therefore no longer "wrong" to apply this to some aircraft smaller than the 747. In your mind, I'm guessing the A380 would qualify as a "jumbo jet" but not a 767. If so, what are you basing your definition on?     cheers
    1
  1527. +SonofA PreacherMan "why isnt it a perversion" The term has different meanings, many of which are inherently subjective. If you mean, for example, that homosexuality is unacceptable, the question is, to whom? Given that in many western societies, the vast majority of people indicate homosexuality is now acceptable, there can be no appeal to either an objective standard, or to public consensus. This probably reflects the fact that as more people get to know homosexuals, and think about the issue rationally, they decided that there's really no justification for condemning it. Thus "a few misguided perverts" is no longer an accurate reflection of western society. Finally, you write that homosexuality is a "lifestyle." Absolutely not. Even if there is some meaning to the term "gay lifestyle," it doesn't follow that all or even most gays live such a lifestyle. More importantly, homosexuality is an attraction, not a behavior. This misdefinition causes endless and needless confusion when discussing the issue. To be gay is to have raw sexual attraction. I'm a gay man, but I don't practice the so-called gay lifestyle. So what does that make me, straight? Such questions indicate the lack of intellectual substance upon which that term is based. cheers
    1
  1528. +SonofA PreacherMan If you want the truth, then don't call it a perversion as if it were a fact. Perversion is in the eye of the beholder, and in many western countries including Canada, Britain, France Germany, the vast majority of the population now accepts homosexuality, so it can't be objected to on the basis of either objectivity or consensus. It's not intrinsically harmful to be homosexual. As for the lgbt agenda, I half agree. The gay community has an element of overkill. But being gay per se is involuntary, so it makes little sense to object to it. Sort of like telling a tall person to stop being tall. Homosexuals aren't going to go away just because some people don't like it. cheers
    1
  1529. +Dawn Of The Revolution "I know it wasn't an outright choice, it's a development. Something had to happen..." Yes. That means it's not a choice.
    1
  1530. +Dawn Of The Revolution  "BUT, it isn't something you're born with. Just saying, if it were, then it would give the possibility of being born knowing things before your school or parents teach them." Invalid reasoning. Sexual attraction is 100% biology-based. It has to be because we humans did not invent it. All of our base urges: thirst, hunger, sexual attraction, sleep, etc, these are biological givens. We can only have attraction we are pre-hardwired for. However, what determines whether we go for males or females is poorly understood. But that too could be biology. The data at present are far too preliminary to draw any definite conclusions. cheers
    1
  1531. +Dawn Of The Revolution "No, you can inherrit biological features, but not their way of thinking." No offense, but that sentence is gibberish. "Humans don't understand until they learn it." I'm not sure we are on the same wavelength. The discussion is about what is the source of our basic urges and attractions. Understanding them is not the issue. The urges exist and have a source whether we understand them or not. cheers
    1
  1532. +Dawn Of The Revolution "We know we need food and waters because our body knows it'll die without it," It's a biological mechanism. We don't "learn" to be hungry. Witness any crying infant. I don't know why you are denying the obvious. Base urges are not learnt. You don't have to teach a child that burning fire hurts. He will pull his hand away from a flame whether you teach him to or not. "You can survive without sex, it's a desire, not a requirement." It doesn't matter whether it's a requirement or not. It's a base urge, and the proof that homosexual and heterosexual attraction is biology based is shown by the fact that there's no such thing as "rock" sexuals or "tree" sexuals, or if there are, they are exceedingly rare. We can only have attractions based on our hormones and hardwiring. Human beings can not create attractions out of whole cloth. They are biological givens. Here's a test for you. Tell me how, if heterosexuality were not a product of biology, human beings could possibly have created the attraction. I'm all ears. cheers
    1
  1533. +Dawn Of The Revolution  "We learn how to shit properly, or else we do it on ourselves, SO IT IS LEARNED" I agree behavior is learnt. But we were talking here not about behavior but about urges and attractions. Behaviors are (largely) learned. Attractions are not.
    1
  1534. +Dawn Of The Revolution Yes, let's be serious.This discussion started out as a simple question of where our basic urges derive. Then it got twisted around and conflated and confused with behavior, a different matter entirely. Finally, whether an urge is a requirement for survival is irrelevant. It's hard to keep a discussion like this on track. But let's try to do that.
    1
  1535. +Dawn Of The Revolution And all these urges have their base in hardwiring. Call them impulses, desires,  whatever suits you. . . .that discussion all 100% irrelevant. They are due to our hardwiring, whether it's for survival or not. no matter what you call them. " your anus IS NOT a sexual body part, it's your damn waste-shute. It's your own business if you like sticking objects in there... But it's fucking weird!" Not sure why that's addressed to me. Anal sex is not the definition of homosexuality; many gay men (estimates range from 20-40% or so) do not practice it (including me.) And the most recent survey, 45% of straight men have practiced it. Is it possible to have a dialog on Youtube without equating being gay with anal sex???????? Is it helping the discussion? No. This whole discussion is basically a waste, as is usually the case with people who have no clue how to argue cogently, and defend a point of view. cheers
    1
  1536. +Dawn Of The Revolution (DTR) QED
    1
  1537. +SonofA PreacherMan "Homosexuality can be cured" You have spoken above about scientific studies above. Now it's your turn. Show me the valid scientific studies that homosexuality can be cured. I don't mean to say every last claim of being cured is provably wrong. Rather, show us a scientific study demonstrating that in general, most gays can be "cured" of it. No such study exists !!!! So why are YOU promoting nonsense? There's no basis in fact that for most gays, a cure exists. It's certainly not demonstrated by any valid scientific study.   I challenge you to provide the proof. cheers
    1
  1538. +SonofA PreacherMan  Obviously you are not only the son of a preacher, but a preacher in your own right. After 4 long replies, you have successfully avoided answering my question: show me scientific evidence that most gay men can be "cured." Are you capable of answering a simple question posed to you? Preaching about gay statistics is not a scientific study. cheers
    1
  1539. +SonofA PreacherMan I'm still waiting on that proof. Do you think that by continuing to preach about gay politics you are going to derail the topic at hand? Don't for a moment think that all of us are as stupid as you. Kindly provide the proof that most gays can change or do the right thing and admit there isn't one. cheers
    1
  1540. +SonofA PreacherMan Yes. Now no more excuses. Please provide the evidence to back up your claim.
    1
  1541. +Preciƨe Vids You're not being scientific. The state of the research is unsettled, and a proof one way or the other is still up for grabs. You cannot nor can I, cite definitive evidence given the current state of knowledge. cheers
    1
  1542. +Andrew Wilson Agreed, it wasn't a simple case. But it's being treated as one: as if it were a matter of agreed upon objective standard of manslaughter. But how can it be manslaughter when Roy presumably had free will? Also, we go by the standard of proof "beyond reasonable doubt." At the very minimum, there's reasonable doubt as to whether this is manslaughter. Why else would the judge have taken three days to render a verdict? Just my thoughts.
    1
  1543. +Corvux IX I think the judge did not mean to say that failing to get him help = manslaughter. There's no law I'm aware of in Mass. aside from "hit and run" that requires people to seek help for others. More likely, the judge used that fact to illustrate her evil intent.
    1
  1544. +Bonnie "it's possible that free will can be manipulated when dealing with the heart and emotions!" Yes, but in manslaughter, courts have to go by proof, not just that something's possible.
    1
  1545. +WCGwkf I see the point, but I'm not sure if it's as cut and dry as that. . For example, if you're under hypnosis, and carry out orders, is that compromised free will?
    1
  1546. +Bonnie Lee Or, he employed his free will and reasoned that she was right, if he didn't get back into his truck, he would just put it off again. That process of reacting to inputs from others is not necessarily beyond his control, even if she was manipulative. So there's still reasonable doubt. The process by which we form our beliefs and choose between alternative actions is fantastically complex, and beyond anyone's present understanding. So it's hubris to say "we know" that she rendered his free will null and void.
    1
  1547. +Morgan Rath "You think you like one sex but then you just realize you don't." Some people say this, yes. And others say they cannot change. So to be as objective as I can be, let's both admit a solid proof either way is lacking. Fair?
    1
  1548. +Morgan Rath "I'm just saying there is no Indisputable evidence that says there is a gay gene." There doesn't have to be a "gay gene" per se for homosexuality to be linked to our biology. The best analogy to this is being left-handed. There's no doubt left-hand preference is inherited, but no one as of yet has identified a "leftie gene." Biology tends to be more complex than this witness for examaple, epigenetics. https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2014/12/02/left-handedness-genes-and-a-matter-of-chance/
    1
  1549. +Josiah D Come on, be serious. TJazz is more or less right on the money. It may well be Trayvon was scared initially. But as was pointed out, once you turn your back on Trayvon and start walking away from him, the roles reverse. Now, if you want, Trayvon is "stalking" George. There is no way you can invoke self-defense. Why does one need a therapist to see this? Your last reply demonstrates again that a serious discussion on Youtube is a rarity.
    1
  1550. Ri5004 You're talking gibberish. Try a coherent post, then we can know what the devil is your point. Dreamy thinks gay isn't a choice. None of your posts have engaged that point in any intelligible form.
    1
  1551. +Austen Reid "but what do I know just a dumb Trump supporter from ky." Yup, Ay hear you. Whayt trash America the greatest nation in the country. I hear that Adam was originally from KY too., along w Colonel Sanders.
    1
  1552. +Will Dode -- Nope. Your theory has no science behind it. Zero, Zilch. "God did not make us gay." God did not make us, period. But if you believe in God, then you have to ask, why did he invent homosexual attraction? For kicks?
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  1553. "cchris874 the hell is your problem?' Well, I geez thought the were feller Kentuckyans. Aren't we?
    1
  1554. Same one your from, where the dumb Trump supporters live. Near Paducah, I think, tho I'm not good at geology.
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  1555. +Vcafr0 -- Just like I said. You don't understand the issues; you don't understand the nature of evidence; you don't know how to construct an argument. If you want a serious discussion, you need to learn how to use the tools of logic and how to evaluate evidence. If you can't do these things, which seems to be the case, your opinions are worthless. cheers
    1
  1556. +Vcafr0 -- That's right, I don't, because it isn't logical. That statement is the product of a lower-order intellect. You confuse the issue of "natural" and "unnatural" with causation. That something is "unnatural" doesn't mean its chosen, witness a person confined to a wheelchair, for example. I can't help you if you don't get basic logic.
    1
  1557. +Vcafr0 -- "You're comparing a person in a wheelchair to person that chooses to be gay is not the same." But they don't choose to be gay. Gayness is an attraction, and people do not choose their attractions. I'll prove it to you. Do you like chocolate? If so, did you choose to like it? If you don't like the taste of rocks, could you choose to like them? The answers speak for themselves, and shows again the failure of superficial thinkers to grasp elementary phenomena, such as that we don't choose what we're attracted to. It's that basic.
    1
  1558. +Vcafr0 -- "attractions, gayness is not." You are talking the absurd. You're not entitled to redefine the definition of established words to suit your misunderstandings. BY DEFINITION homosexuality is an attraction, as illustrated by this online definition form the Free Dictionary: 1. attracted sexually to members of one's own sex. This is what I mean about the difficulty in having an enlightened conversation with people who simply don't get basic stuff. In this case, playing around with terms for which you don't even know the correct meaning. "all these lies about people born gay are bullshit." This claim is simply shorthand for "babies are born with a predisposition to become gay as adults." Know one is stupid enough to mean literally that babies have sexual attraction. Please say something intelligent, because so far you haven't.
    1
  1559. +Vcafr0 -- I never said gays choose to be gay as either adult or children. cheers
    1
  1560. + Asyric -- You've got it mostly wrong. An intelligent discussion can't be had on this topic until you agree with the following basic truth, a truth that supersedes any other point in this debate: People do not choose their attractions. End of discussion. Now if you want to acknowledge this, a fair discussion can be had. Otherwise you're going to to be mired down in details that depend on this higher level truth. cheers
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  1561. +Asyric -- "I do agree people can't choose what they're attracted to. " Well, that may well contradict the idea we a are ALL "born" straight. Maybe some of us aren't, and the definitive research on that remains unsettled. "But you CAN choose to act on your attractions" No offense here, but that's another example of lower-order thinking. It is granted by everyone with a brain that gays can choose to sleep with either men or women. Duh!!! That's not what the debate is about !!! It's equivalent to pointing out that people choose to have chocolate ice cream, choose to eat foie gras, choose to listen to rock. These are trivial, tautological observations that have absolutely nothing to do with the debate. No gay man has ever said "I cannot sleep with another man." That's ridiculous. The debate is and always has been about ATTRACTION. So let's keep this discussion intelligent. :)
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  1562. +Asyric -- "I just want to add that I appreciate how mature you are being" Thanks, but I should add that when I saw this: "Dreamy you're an idiot." I go on the defense. So that said, sorry if I sounded harsh. cheers
    1
  1563. +Asyric Yeah, but Dreamy didn't do anything but make some good points, just as I was trying to do. So I just assumed you were one of those bully-types. Then I basically apologized for making that assumption. So take it as a complement. :)
    1
  1564. +Reiton Monnet -- A lot of this is to some extent understandable because many people claim to have changed. But I agree there's just not a lot of critical thinking on this issue. Some examples: -That someone changes doesn't mean they chose to change, anymore than falling out of love with Sally and into love with Jane is a choice. -Saying you have changed could mean behavior but not attraction -People have a remarkable capacity for self-deception. They may think they've changed, but are unable to admit they still have the attraction. -the "self-loathing" gay cannot be accounted for by the "it's a choice" crowd. -The issue is attraction, not behavior. This is this single most important blunder made by the "it's a choice" crowd -inmates have sex with each other for the obvious reason that's all they have access to -men. That doesn't mean they became gay!! -if we all could change, then in effect there's no such thing as homosexuality or heterosexuality - we are all bisexual -it may be that people who do change, have some bisexuality to begin with. Say, a 1 or 2 on the Kinsey scale. -If gay is always a choice, then there would be no need for the reparative therapy industry. Try having a rational discussion on these points with any Youtube. probability: 1% cheers
    1
  1565. cigars888  It doesn't really matter whether they choose it or not. If it doesn't harm you, it's none of your business - unless you are a busybody.
    1
  1566. Cardinalsarelame "you" is being used as a general pronoun - meaning you, me, everyone else. cheers
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  1567. Cardinalsarelame "But gay men don't just give each other blowjobs and they don't agree to monogamy. Their actions are only in theory safe, but common sense tells you that it is not. " The stats are unreliable and no one knows for sure, but it is estimated that 20-40% or so go gay men do not practice anal sex. Of the remainder that do, not all do so in a reckless way with multiple partners. Then we have lesbians, who presumably for the most part do not practice this form of sex.  So fine, go after the behavior. Don't define gayness as a social malady per se. Leave the responsible gay men out of your rubric. And the lesbians. We can fight to eliminate bad behavior. But declaring warfare on homosexuality as a concept is just an exercise in feel-gooding. That's not going to stop people from being gay.
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  1568. Cardinalsarelame "In my opinion it should be one or the other: Is Marriage about a man and a woman or is it about love between two people?" False and arbitrary dichotomy. In theory, society can define marriage any way they want: between two consenting non-menatlly ill adults; between a child and adult; between two children; these are all arbitrary constructs, and society can choose which one it feels is the most appropriate. cheers
    1
  1569. How so? Is every error of judgement to be met with prison? Cmon, she's human. She overreacted, but the principle of proof beyond reasonable doubt means we should give her that benefit and assumed she acted in good faith. Just as we don't indict pilots for making mistakes under pressure in a plane crash. Should we start jailing them to?
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  1570. "your amateur opinion on deadly-use-of-force?" Give me a more professional opinion and I will reconsider.
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  1571. +harborboi Is that your way of trying to make blacks look like mature members of society?
    1
  1572. +harborboi OK, a trolling white man. That's a tiny bit better I suppose.
    1
  1573. The hosts in the above video have lost sight of fundamental principles. Looking at something is not a criminal category. Generally speaking, there is no legal precedent for this, and it should be obvious why:    _ Looking, by  definition, is a harmless activity. No one ever died by being looked at.  The hysteria over child porn has caused many of us to lose sight of basic principles. Looking at child porn, whether you do so accidentally or deliberately, is no different in principle than watching many other perfectly legal depictions of illegal acts, witness the saturation of TV and the movies with crime and violence, including rape and murder, or indeed real life news, such as beheadings and elevator knock-outs. While child porn sickens most of us,  the very idea of outlawing the use of one of the five senses is absurd on the face of it. This would all be blindingly obvious if it weren't for obsessed prosecutors' fanatical efforts to advance their careers via any means, no matter how preposterous, including the outlawing of sight. They have managed to make an arbitrary exception to basic common sense, and have people actually swallow it hook line and sinker. The child porn gestapo would jail you for having a passing thought on the subject if it suited them. So would passing laws outlawing swallowing, blinking ones eyes, or any other basic bodily function if it were in any way  associated with child porn. Murder and rape and decapitation seems not to motivate them. No, only child porn dictates the outlawing  of one of the five senses. The absurdity of all this should be manifest.
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  1574. +Tariq Gibrael Alright, way to go. I successfully scared Tariq Gibrael" and his his bad mannered bigotry away. Looks like he removed his tedious thousand page long thread. Speaks to the success of my posts. Unable to handle them like an adult or refute them, he cowered behind the convenient solution of censorship, and in the process censored all of his own posts as well. He did me and everyone else a big favor. That's right, go take your bigotry somewhere else and leave the civilized world alone. It has no place for you.
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  1575. In Massachusetts, I seem them all the time going over the speed limit on highways. Amazing they don't kill more often.
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  1576. Abuse of law IMO. To say she committed manslaughter means he had no free will. Reasonable doubt alone means this is a terrible verdict.
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  1577. +Valeria C There's no such thing as a perfect parent. A single lapse proves virtually nothing. Wait until you have kids.
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  1578. +Gus The texts didn't change my mind. There's reasonable doubt that he was forced to do it.
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  1579. +Angle Agree the law is misapplied here. But forgetting the law, one has to admit that what she did was in fact morally wrong, and very very evil. So she deserves punishment not from a legal, but from a moral point of view. I don;t know that there's anything else she can be charged with under the law though. So while I disagree with the legal process here, I won't be feeling too badly for her once (or if) she's behind bars.
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  1580. +Jeremy I agree about her pressuring him and not helping him. But that doesn't prove to my satisfaction that he was defenseless. That's the key, as my mind sees it.
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  1581. +Jeremy But the question remains, was this really manslaughter? Not doing anything to prevent doesn't = manslaughter.
    1
  1582. +Jeremy "Any reasonably minded individual would never ever let ....... " My position is that I personally don't have the confidence to speculate like this. The mind is fabulously complex. We know only a tiny tiny bit about how it functions. So if you take a depressed suicidal person, and then add to that a friend ordering him to take his life, there are theoretically countless other factors we have no way to measure that could have influenced his decision; and which may be the product of a "normal" person. In particular, the assumption that a reasonable minded person "would never ever let that get to them" is fraught with difficulty. Scenario: as he receives each text from her, he reasons that she's right: "if I don't get back in the truck, I will keep putting it off, so I better do it now, or I will never do it." That doesn't necessarily indicate a defenseless person.
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  1583. +Jeremey And I just want to make clear I do not see whatsherface as a victim. She did evil, and I won't be shedding any tears for her once in jail. My reluctance is, what happens the next time a judge decides to loosen the definition of manslaughter in a way you might disagree with. I see too much room here for abusing the law by declaring we know how to read the mind of a Conrad Roy. So, my heart is with you in this case. But my brain is saying this is bad precedent. cheers
    1
  1584. I'll bet this will go all the way to the SJC and be struck down. Just my prediction
    1
  1585. +Kristine A little harsh I think. I agree she overreacted, but can we expect absolute perfection from every police officer? She had apparently an unblemished record, never fired a weapon on all of her years as a cop until this year. People aren't perfect, and even very good ones with experience can make a questionable judgement call.
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  1586. husker hammer  "do some research people. . . . . It's also true that upon release the same men continue gay sex on the outside of prison" I've been told this now by several people. But when I "do some research," I'm not finding a whole lot to go on. Can you give some link? How many people have said this? I have no doubt that while in prison a lot of men have gay sex. But when they get out? thanks
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  1587. californication751  Awesome. Thanks!
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  1588. ***** Thank you for some common sense. To me, what you mention is about as absurd as going after that Swedish cartoon for offending muslims. And for the Japanese government, who can't even come to terms with its own murderous past, the charge seems doubly offensive.
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  1589. ***** I'm curious what you mean by the question.
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  1590. ***** I thought we were on the same wavelength, so I did not expect your question. Common sense here means to me: we would never think to make "seeing" into a criminal category were it not for the fanaticism that accompanies certain taboos in our (US especially) societies. Another example for me is the war on drugs. Yes, there's a case for criminalizing drugs. That said, would we think to make "feeling good" into a crime were it not for the constant assumption everywhere that drugs= crime? Marajuana in particular is, it seems to me, not going to bring down society were it made legal. Turning to child porn, I do not mean to suggest common sense should tolerate the use of children for one's sexual needs. That's as sickening to me as it is to everyone else, save pedophiles, who are under the delusion children can give consent and want to have sex. cheers  :)
    1
  1591. ***** Yes, I do agree that cartoons should not fall under these laws., and for the exact same reason I gave: the mere act of "seeing," whether cartoon or otherwise, seems to me not a crime in itself.   cheers
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  1592. ***** Who is "Chandler Klebs"? Send me a PM if you will because I'm not sure what this is about. If you want me to delete all the posts above, I'm happy to do so. cheers
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  1593. Good points, but it's been said school bus drivers are far better screened than your average car driver, who probably hasn't been screened since his drivers test decades ago. Private autos are about 80 times more lethal to kids than are school buses.
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  1594. Sam Waldorf Well it may be true that pedophiles are born with this attraction, or become attracted for biological reasons. I have some empathy: suppose you started to have these urges? I have no sympathy for putting these desires into action, but there are people who are horrified they have the attraction. There was also the well known case of the man who had no history of pedophilia, but began to read child pornography after getting a brain tumor. When the tumor was removed, the pedaphilic urges went away, but came back a second time when the tumor grew back. Excellent lesson for those who think people just choose sexual attraction out a of a hat. Which is more or less the preposterous view of people who say "they choose it." No one chooses their deepest feelings and desires. They are just there. A fact of life that the "they choose it" crowd cannot comprehend. That's the real mystery. cheers
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  1595. Sam Waldorf Except that there's no objective definition of sexual depravity. What's depraved to you might not be depraved to others. For example, in Canada, Britain, Germany, and I think Australia, and France, over 80% of the population accepts homosexuality. Increasingly that's moving in the same direction in other western countries too. So your views are neither objectively provable, nor shared by most people in these countries. The danger is stating these things as fact. There is no fact here. It's your sensibility vs mine and everyone else's. That's it. cheers
    1
  1596. Sam Waldorf "depravity is also a synonym for perversion" Again, an invalid argument. Perversion means: "Deviating from what is considered right and correct" "What is considered" is by definition a subjective phrase.For example, in Canada, Britain and Germany, homosexuality is accepted by over 80% of the population. By their standards homosexuality is not perverse. That shows definitively and unequivocally that you are wrong: perversion is a subjective term, not an objective term.    cheers
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  1597. Sam Waldorf " Biblical texts refer to it as abomination." Now if you want to talk perversion, the Bible has plenty of it - in my subjective view, that is. In Leviticus we find God allegedly indicating he is in favor of executing children who curse. Now, there's very little argument from anyone that killing children as a punishment for cursing is outrageous . So maybe you want to start with the Bible and ask yourself why you make an exception for God to espouse the killing of children, but not humans. I certainly hope you don't share God's alleged sentiment here. Do you? cheers
    1
  1598. +Aaron Gottfried "being gay in the first place is the delusion." Just curious what causes a person such as yourself to state preposterous untruths such as this. Being gay is a reality for many. So for example, ask me about my past history as a gay man. There is no history of heterosexual attraction in my past. The same is true for countless other gay men and women. Yes, some people can go back and forth. They are known as bisexuals. Where have you been? cheers
    1
  1599. +Willy Wheelbarrow "when some gay dude wants to change his sexual orientation"= Sexual orientation doesn't work like that. These are feelings that we have little or no conscious control over. People that switch from "gay" to "straight" are by definition bisexual. The myth here is that all bisexuals are equally bisexual at all times in their lives. Not true. Often a person in denial about their true feelings will "become" gay or straight. That does not mean everyone can change. The reality is that countless #s of gays have tried to change, without success. Unless you want to declare all of them liars, this shows rather definitively that not all gays choose to be gay. Why is this so hard for people to comprehend?
    1
  1600. +Willy Wheelbarrow Thanks. Yes, I actually don't know for sure if we are born that way,. but as you say, if we aren't, this stuff occurs at a very young age, and by there time you are, say, 10, it's more or less fixed. But some people do seem to be able to change. I would say that's because they are probably bisexual to a degree; or because some people don't recognize or become aware of their bisexuality until they are adults. But like you say, I am making speculations too. cheers
    1
  1601. +Bunny Jj I always find that when the going gets tough, the fundamentalists never see a debate to its conclusion. Never fails. cheers
    1
  1602. +Luis F. Tenorio "do your research" Well let's start with basics. The most common obstacle I run into is people who think "choosing to be gay" means "choosing to have sex with a man (if you are a man)." If this is your view, you're already off to a bad start, as the argument about gay not being a choice refers to "having the the attraction", not "doing the act." So far, would you agree with this? That is, would you agree that when gays say they don't choose to be gay, they mean they don't choose to have feelings of attraction to the same sex?
    1
  1603. +Luis F. Tenorio "yes i agree" OK, so if you agree with me it's not a choice, you've just refuted your original post, which was "Being gay is a choice." Am I missing something?
    1
  1604. +Luis F. Tenorio Let's try and nail this directly. Homosexuality is defined as an attraction. Do you agree? Yes or no.
    1
  1605. +Luis F. Tenorio So far so good. Now, as a gay man I have never felt sexual attraction to females. Do you accept that I am telling you the truth?
    1
  1606. +Job Done Right There are too many variables in the question for me to say anything useful. Sorry.
    1
  1607. +Luis F. Tenorio I have also tried to feel attraction to woman. I would really love to know how it feels, but have been unsuccessful in summoning the attraction. It remains a mystery to me how I could get there. Once again, can you accept that this an accurate description of me?
    1
  1608. +Job Done Right "I have tried to feel attraction to a guy. I would really love to know how it feels, but have been unsuccessful because it's my choice." OK, let's analyze this carefully. First question: IF you decided you want to feel sexually attracted to men, could make yourself have the attraction? Yes or no?
    1
  1609. +Luis F. Tenorio "So far by the data that exists now it is a reversible situation and it is still a choice." No, there is no data right now that positively shows all men can be sexually aroused by a woman. Show us the data you refer to, or else these are empty words. Thanks
    1
  1610. +Luis F. Tenorio   I've asked you 3 times now to provide a link to a study that supports your view. When are you going to deliver. Next year? I'm on vacation for a week. That gives you a whole week to deliver the goods. If I don't see any links by the time I return, that concludes you are just another Youtube big mouth who can't back up what he claims.  As to Mr. Carson, he recanted and apologized the next day. Ask yourself: why? Have a nice week.
    1
  1611. +Joshua Ricketts Luis is stuck on a lower tier of understanding. He doesn't understand the nature of reality. And a scholarly fraud as well. What else is new on Youtube?
    1
  1612. +Luis F. Tenorio As to Ben Carson, yes, he is a superior scholar than yourself: he recanted the next day, explaining that not all gays can necessarily change. Maybe you can learn from his example.
    1
  1613. +Luis F. Tenorio   "If u think it is not a choice then why bother with me?" That's what these forums are for. You post your view publicly, then I reply. Why else would they have a reply button? "Once u get the proof" You mean, once YOU get the proof. Apparently you don't have it, or you would have posted a link by now. I've given you two weeks, right? It's the oldest fraudster trick in the Youtube book to claim it's not your responsibility to provide the evidence. The burden of proof rests with you, not me. End of discussion. I've studied these issues extensively. There's not s single scientific study in the world published to date that indicates people can change their orientation. You're either a fraud, or you do not understand the nature of evidence. The closest we have to such evidence is the s0-called reparative therapy industry, whose results are not scientific, and even by their own unscientific standards, have proved to be a colossal failure. Unlike you, I'm happy to provide links. That's called good sportsmanship, which you lack in a major way. As to Dr. Carson, his Facebook apology contains the following words: "I do not pretend to know how every individual came to their sexual orientation."  Those words, if taken at face value, indicate agnosticism on the issue of all gays being able to choose.
    1
  1614. +Luis F. Tenorio " "I already said bring me the gene and i will say it is not a choice." Invalid response. A gay gene is not required for sexual orientation being fixed. If early childhood experience were found to be the cause of homosexuality, it might result in a fixed orientation as an adult. In that case, it would not be a choice, and no gay genes required. That invalidity of what you write is the result of conflating 2 different arguments together: genes vs environment; choice vs not chosen. These are two separate arguments. Your response is invalid for a second reason: that biology may play a role in sexual orientation doesn't mean it's a s simple as a "gay gene." Epigenetics and or in vitro hormones may be what finally decides the outcome, as recent research suggests. It's invalid to assume that the research done so far should have resulted in a definite answer by now. Your argument assumes that because an exact biological mechanism hasn't been found as of the year 2015, it will therefore never be found. That's yet another logical fallacy afflicting your thinking. There is no valid assumption that such a mechanism ought to have been found by 2015, or 2020, or 1997, or any other date picked out of a hat.
    1
  1615. +Luis F. Tenorio "sexual orientation" a term invented by u guys.' Whether invented by us or not, it describes a basic reality. A reality you are apparently out of touch with. Don't just take it from gay men or women. If you ask most straight people if they chose to be straight or gay, the vast majority will say "No." That shows you are equally out of touch with both gays and straights. Very few straight men will say they could get aroused by male body parts. So be honest with us: could you get an erection and lust after penises if you wanted to? Your honest answer would do a lot to clear up your misunderstanding of the issue.
    1
  1616. +Luis F. Tenorio Kindly answer my question: could you choose to become aroused and get an erection at the sight of male body parts? Could you chose to do this? Thanks
    1
  1617. +Luis F. Tenorio  I did the research you requested, There is no such study. End of discussion. Don't keep on lying about it. Thanks.
    1
  1618. +Luis F. Tenorio And furthermore you haven't answered my question. Called poor sportsmanship, of which you are apparently an exemplar. Only you can decided whether you want to play fair, or not answer questions and refuse to cite non existent studies. I can't make you into a good sport. It has to come from you. cheers
    1
  1619. +Luis F. Tenorio And now for a prep on good sportsmanship. If you asked me for evidence of a mechanism that might explain male homosexuality, I would provide you with a link. A link is a polite way of indicating to your audience that your ideas have some level of documentation. Here is one example:http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26089486 . Here is another http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/scientists-discover-evolutionary-advantage-homosexual-sex It took me all of 45 seconds to find and cite these links. Similarly, when conversing with a friend who expresses interest in a study you find persuasive, the natural tendency is to say, "sure, I'll be glad to send you the link." Bad sportsmanship, on the other hand, is the approach you have taken. Instead of treating me the way you would treat a friend, you choose adversarialness instead. On the other hand, if you know there is no such link, very easy to use the adversarial bad sportsman approach as a cover for dishonesty. Either way, your reputation suffers. Again, only you can choose to be a good sport.
    1
  1620. +Luis F. Tenorio The only self evident truth in this thread is your inability to justify a single thing you've said.
    1
  1621. +Luis F. Tenorio I can prove you are wrong if you are willing to be honest. Here's a question for you. Do you have a favorite food? And is there a food you hate?
    1
  1622. +Luis F. Tenorio If you were honest, you'd answer my questions: -Do you have a favorite food? -Do you not like certain foods? -Do you have a favorite color? -If you were to lose a child in a car accident,would you be able to chose to feel overwhelming joy? -If you like tomato juice, is it because you decided it would be a good idea to like tomato juice, or do you just happen to like tomato juice? -When you become sad, is it because you chose to feel sad? If you won't answer these incredibly easy questions, then you aren't being honest or a good sport. Thanks
    1
  1623. +Joshua Ricketts If he is honest, he will answer the questions. If he is not honest, he will not answer them, just as he refused to cite a study when given two weeks to do so. And if he is honest, he will have to admit the obvious: people don't (usually) choose to feel sad, and if they don't like the taste of tomato juice, that's not a conscious choice. How could these things be more obvious?? cheers
    1
  1624. +Joshua Ricketts "and creeping through my Facebook" Wait! Hold on!! You're telling me Luis doesn't have the time to cough up a simple link to the alleged studies he claims exist, but DOES have the time to go prowling about your Facebookpage? What does that tell us about Luis? cheers
    1
  1625. +Luis F. Tenorio "i dont like garbanzos that are not cook thru" Did you choose to not like them? "Still i can choose to eat or not to eat" You are helping me to make my point: -do you choose to be hungry -do you choose to be thirsty -did you choose to not like the flavor of, say, rocks? -could you choose to like to eat rocks? "I can choose to hump a pillow or not," Again, the source of your misunderstanding is becoming clearer: the difference between attraction versus acting on the attraction. Homosexuality is an attraction, not an action. It is not chosen, only acting on the desire is chosen. Agreed?
    1
  1626. +Luis F. Tenorio Invalid reply. We do not have the free will to like everything. Can you choose to like the taste of rocks as much as, say, chocolate ice cream? When you feel sad, is it because you chose to feel sad?
    1
  1627. +Luis F. Tenorio We have the free will to like everything?
    1
  1628. +Luis F. Tenorio "everything your genes allow you to." For the sake of argument, let's say that's right. And let's simplify a bit and substitute the term "biology" for genes. Our biology allows us to prefer or like some things and not others. So, it may be that biology confers heterosexual attraction on some but not others.
    1
  1629. +Luis F. Tenorio "Your genetics dont allow you to enjoy a glass of muriatic acid. " And it may be that genetics doesn't allow some people to find vaginas attractive. cheers
    1
  1630. +Luis F. Tenorio Luis, why don't you try answering this question you keep avoiding: When you become sad, is it because you choose to become sad? The simple answer to that will clear a lot of confusion up for you. Give it a try,
    1
  1631. +Luis F. Tenorio "To be sad is a choice" Oh really? So, you're saying the reason we become sad is because we wake up one morning and say to ourselves, "today at one o'clock I shall choose to become sad." This is your model of reality? This is preposterous. It shows you are completely out of touch with reality. I mean, you couldn't have written anything more preposterous. Go poll a thousand therapists. I bet you not a single one will agree with this. It's madness. And if it's true, WHY? Why would anyone choose sadness?
    1
  1632. +Luis F. Tenorio So you've never once in your life had a wave of sadness come over you that you didn't want?
    1
  1633. +Luis F. Tenorio Then we can look at grief. Can you realistically choose to feel overwhelming joy the day your daughter is run over and killed by a truck? Of course the answer is NO. That's proof positive you have lost this argument big time. People do not choose their deepest emotions. My advice to you is, having become the laughing stock of your own thread, you delete it. Or just keep posting sand make a fool of yourself. You might as well say that people choose to breathe and water runs uphill. It reflects the same level of massive misnderstanding of how the world works. cheers
    1
  1634. +Luis F. Tenorio "And you know why they will never find a gene?" Unscientific statement. Science does not make unknowable absolute statements like that. You are clearly not a scientist, or scientifically minded. Your beliefs are formulated in the absence of evidence, testing and peer review. That is why Youtube will be your only platform. Plus you can barely speak English, unless you text your posts. And you think constant bad grammar, and the absence of evidence are virtues. Go for it.
    1
  1635. +Luis F. Tenorio And finally, I invite you to have the final word in our dialogue. I realize belatedly that the inherent stupidity of what you write hardly needs my commentary. It speaks for itself. cheers
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  1636. +Joshua Ricketts "to put to rest the debate of homosexuality" For Luis and other intellectually challenged people, the debate has already ended, and will continue to have ended long after they have been proven 100% wrong. For in their mind, ego trumps science as well as everyone else. Luis is right in virtue of being Luis, and that's all that matters to him.
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  1637. +Pigeon Environmental factors can influence the way in which sexual orientation develops; most usually, some traumatic experiences " The main stumbling block for me on this theory is, how come we have not identified the common denominator environment factors? Given what so many gay people claim about their upbringing, it seems pushing it to say they are all victims of unusual trauma. This leads me to speculate far more likely a biological process. Is there anything other than rank speculation to suggest environment is the key factor?
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  1638. +Joshua Ricketts "Not once did I say I chose to be gay. I said being gay is just too good. That's not me saying I chose it. That's me saying I like being gay. I like being a boy, yet I didn't choose it." The Luis theater of the absurd continues.....I don't know how it's possible for anyone to be this massively stupid. But there you go.
    1
  1639. +Luis F. Tenorio Your confusion is endless. You write "U cant deny people can engage homosexual activity by choice' We are not talking about with whom you choose to sleep !!!!! We've gone over this ad nauseum. Homosexuality is an attraction not an activity. How many times do we have to keep going over this? The observation that anyone can sleep with anyone is a trivial observation that even a mentally retarted person can make. The debate about homosexuality is not about ridiculously trivial observations, such as that people are free to sleep with anyone, touch their toes, take a pee, or count to ten. Please make an effort to keep the debate limited to INTELLIGENT observations , not TRIVIAL ones. "The scientific method dont go by your testimony" The scientific method deals with witness testimony as follows: -individual witness observations are in many cases highly unreliable and are treated with caution. -collective witness observations involving a large number of independent people who all are ion agreement are treated as a low to moderate confidence level depending on the context. They can form a substantial part of a larger case. Think about it: the foundation of science is observation. Who does the observing? Scientists acting as witnesses !!!!! What the scientific method DOES NOT do is simply ignore or casually dismiss as either lies or stupidity, the collective testimonies of thousands of gay people who say they did not make a conscious choice. This is the approach YOU take, not SCIENCE.   Basically, your argument is: To hell with what gay people say. They are too stupid to know what they really think. cheers
    1
  1640. +Luis F. Tenorio Glad you agree with me. Gay is not chosen. There, that wasn't so hard, was it?
    1
  1641. +Luis F. Tenorio "no gay is chosen, but being gay is a choice" I am gay. I did not choose it. Explain.
    1
  1642. +Luis F. Tenorio "would you like to be treated? (Make a choice)" You are avoiding the question. Do you agree I did not make a choice to have gay attraction? Please answer yes or no.  Thank you.
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  1643. +Luis F. Tenorio "here are three types of treatment and recovery althou is humble there is a small percentage that recovers" If gays can choose to be straight, why the need for therapy?
    1
  1644. +Luis F. Tenorio Can you answer the question yes or no. Do you agree I did not choose to be gay? Please answer the question.
    1
  1645. +Luis F. Tenorio Do you promise to answer my question if I answer yours?
    1
  1646. +Luis F. Tenorio "And to answer your question is yes" All right, so you admit you are wrong about gay being a choice. Thanks.
    1
  1647. +Luis F. Tenorio My question was: do you agree I did not choose to be gay? You responded "yes," did you not?
    1
  1648. +Luis F. Tenorio ", being gay is a choice, you are special case. " Kindly show me the evidence that I am a special case.
    1
  1649. +Luis F. Tenorio Unscientific reply. A willingness to consider therapy doesn't indicate whether one chooses to be gay.
    1
  1650. +Luis F. Tenorio "See if u get the option for treatment for free, etc etc. you are choosing to be gay." You are speaking nonsense once again.
    1
  1651. +Luis F. Tenorio And kindly note again that I am absolutely right about the absence of any scientifically valid treatment for homosexuality: "The APA issued an official disavowal of Spitzer's paper, noting that it had not been peer reviewed and stating that "[t]here is no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of reparative therapy as a treatment to change one's sexual orientation."[19][dead link] Two years later, the paper was peer reviewed and published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior.[20]" This is the reason you have been unable to cite a valid source: there isn't one. Please stop making up things. Make believe studies and groundless opinions help no one. If you are as intelligent as you say you are, then you would produce the scientific evidence proving that most gays are gays by choice, and the studies showing that people can change. Until you do this, your posts are worthless.
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  1652. +Luis F. Tenorio You have the burden of proof to show there is an effective treatment that passes the test of peer review, etc. You have had countless opportunities to do so, and have failed each and every time. You have failed the test of credibility, which is why hardly anyone is paying attention to your posts anymore. You should be grateful you still have me as your limited audience. cheers
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  1653. +Joshua Ricketts Thank you!!
    1
  1654. +Luis F. Tenorio Joshua is right. Give us a peer-reviewed valid therapy that has a high success rate, or shut up. It's that simple. Otherwise you do indeed make an ass of yourself. Each passing day that refuse to do this makes you more into a horses posterior. I assume you value your online reputation?
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  1655. +Luis F. Tenorio "So like i said, mist of homosexuals and lesbians do it by choice. " You can keep "saying" it all you want. But until you provide the proof, they are empty words.
    1
  1656. +Luis F. Tenorio Luis, when are you going to provide the proof most gays can choose to change? Today? Tomorrow? Next Year? Your reputation continues to suffer when you refuse to deliver.
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  1657. +Luis F. Tenorio " if you are not seeking a cure then you are choosing to remain like that" Invalid. You can be seeking a cure, but since there is no cure, there can be no change. This is why you do not understand the nature of evidence. There is no cure. If there is, YOU have to provide the evidence. You have consistently avoided this task, and yet continue to insist there is a cure. This is precisely the definition of fraud. If you were a telemarketer, and tried to sell a cure which didn't work, you'd be in jail. But in the land of Youtube, you are free to be a fraud. You choose fraudulence just as surely as claim say gays "choose" gayness. The difference is that gays cannot change, whereas frauds like yourself can. But you CHOOSE to remain a fraud.
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  1658. +Luis F. Tenorio "cognitive therapy with the addiction model is the most efficient therapy for sexual disorders." By your own comments earlier, the success rate is terrible. You are urging people to seek quack therapy. It's disgraceful. You should be ashamed.
    1
  1659. +Luis F. Tenorio "Your dna tells you are straight." Once again, you don't have the scientific data for that. The causes of sexual orientation are not yet well understood enough to make such a statement. You're just a dilettante making it up as you go along. You don't understand the nature of evidence. You are behaving no differently than a telemarketer or a witch doctor. You do not have rigorous scientific confirmation or controls for any of your ideas. You even admitted the success rate for the therapy you quoted is awful. This what quack doctors do: recommend treatment that even by your own admission is essentially worthless. There is no legitimate science in the therapy you are pushing. You are no different than a flaky telemarketer who cares little for the scientific process of confirmation, peer review and rigorous controls. You say you are intelligent. That may be true. But one can be intelligent yet have no sense. History is full of such individuals.
    1
  1660. +Luis F. Tenorio "cognitive therapy still the best option out there, unless you prefer shock therapy. And the success rate depends a lot on the patient thats why is called cognitive" There is no proven success rate for any of these therapies. I have given you the quote from the APA. Until you produce evidence, the APA's statement is the final word.
    1
  1661. +Luis F. Tenorio Begging to differ isn't the issue. You need to provide the evidence. Without evidence, your posts are worthless.
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  1662. +Luis F. Tenorio I would consider such treatment if there were strong evidence it works. Otherwise, it's like people who tell you to take supplements because "in theory" they should work. But most of the time , the evidence supplements will make you live longer is non-existent. The bottom line is, since there's nothing wrong with being gay, treatment for it should not be recommended unless it's a proven quantity. Which it isn't.
    1
  1663. +Luis F. Tenorio "U can see the treatment on wikipedia" Not an effective one. Another lie.
    1
  1664. +Luis F. Tenorio Show me the science behind it. Show a reasonable proof that even a single person benefited. This means you cannot go by self-selected personal testimonies. cheers
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  1665. +Luis F. Tenorio "You go do your own research." I did, and it shows that no treatment passes the test of peer review or any other scientific standards. That's why I keep giving you the opportunity to prove you aren't full of BS. But each and every time you turn down the offer.
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  1666. +Luis F. Tenorio They have NOT proven to be effective. Show us a study that conforms to scientific standards that gays can change. Don't you find it odd you never offer any proof for your empty claims? After a while, it says to the reader you are lying.
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  1667. +Luis F. Tenorio "i put words you didnt say in your mouth?" You are indeed the equivalent of a quack doctor, promoting false treatment, refusing at every turn to cite scientific evidence. It's ultimately a form of fraud. You point blank absolutely refuse to deliver the evidence. You can only get away with this because this is Youtube, where the intellectually feeble are free to infect civilized discourse with impunity. In a properly moderated forum, you would have been banned by now.
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  1668. +Luis F. Tenorio "because u dont wanna read" Let me give you a little lesson on how evidence works. You make a claim. Then we ask for evidence. You fail to deliver, saying we can look it up for ourselves. I do just this, providing you with a proof there is no study living up to standard scientific protocol. At that point, after having made a reasonable effort, and providing you with a citation from the APA, the burden of proof shifts to YOU. You have failed to meet your burden of proof. Until you produce the evidence, you are a fraud. Not different than any telemarketer trying to con people. Why are you so intent on wrecking your reputation, or what's left of it to be precise? What drives you to be a second rate person? If that's OK with you, then I guess there's really no issue. Is that the way they do things in Argentina?
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  1669. +Luis F. Tenorio " however there are three types of treatment and recovery althou is humble there is a small percentage that recovers" Kindly cite this source you mentioned. I want to see a source that concludes a small % of gays "recover" and if it meets the standard of a scientific study.
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  1670. +Luis F. Tenorio How can i find so much supporting material and u can't? Because you haven't. You don't understand the nature of what you read. If you can find so much stuff, why haven't you cited a SINGLE source? NONE ,ZERO. But you brag about all the stuff you read. Some people in this world are genuinely good natured, answer reasonable questions (like citing a bloody source) and try to not frustrate others for no particular reason. Then there are some people who constantly do things and act in ways that bring out the worst features in others. These are the kinds of obnoxious pettiness than drive others mad. The kind of things that make you want to kill your mother-in-law. You fall into this latter category. Most people I know strive to be god sports and not frustrate others. Why do you choose the path of poor sportsmanship and overall being unpleasant to your fellow humans? Perhaps it is you who really has a disorder. A genuine ability to make life obnoxious for others and not care.  Something to consider at least.
    1
  1671. +Luis F. Tenorio There is no personal insult in my reply. It's pointing out that you excel at frustrating people. If your father asked for a link, would you have resisted giving it to him after repeated requests? Of course not, you would have provided the link because you respect him. Because it's common decency. The analogy proves that you don't have respect for me or any of the other people who ask you to deliver what you say is out there. You have no respect, period.
    1
  1672. +Luis F. Tenorio "as i said cognitive therapy only works when u have a will to change." You have to switch from "making a claim" mode to "providing evidence" mode. You're still unable or unwilling to respect your audience, who has kindly requested on multple occasions the actual success rate and science behind the claims. Until then, you are disrespecting your audience.
    1
  1673. +Luis F. Tenorio If your father searched for a study you recommended and couldn't find one, would you send him a link? Or would you say "poor baby."?
    1
  1674. +Luis F. Tenorio Luis, you've mentioned there are numerous studies supporting that gays can change. Would you kindly cite the one you feel is the most comprehensive or convincing to you. Is there some reason you don't want to share this with us? Thanks
    1
  1675. +Luis F. Tenorio Again, Luis, I'd like to hear from you a study that you think is particularly impressive to you. Thanks
    1
  1676.  @christopherscheiber1439  Thank you very much for the unearned compliment. I don't know how I had the patience for all that. I tend to agree with what you write, but maybe you could expand on "hatred through subjective comparison."
    1
  1677. "it blows me away there's no seatbelts on school buses that's like so f** stupid" With an average of 6 school bus deaths per year, the cost would be questionable. Spend the money instead on campaigns to get kids out of private cars and into school buses. They are about 80 times safer for your kid than is your car.
    1
  1678. indeed
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  1679.  @djpalindrome  Hi, The above conversation has been about the Chicago crash, not the cargo door crash. But I agree entirely the Paris crash was primarily the result of McDonnell Douglas' denial about their own culpability. I've read all four books about that crash, and one of the little known or mentioned facts is that Turkish Airlines was also a major player in this failure. Just a few months or so before the crash, their maintenance people (presumably) tampered with the locking pins, turning them the wrong way, thus eliminating any undue resistance to warn the baggage handler the door was not closed properly. This alteration was conclusively proved by the French investigators. That is most likely why the plane was able to escape disaster until 1974. cheers
    1
  1680. Rape culture means "the prevailing attitude" that rape is normal. "there are people out there like him who don't get it" does not show we live in a rape culture. That's what gets me. There are a thousand and one attitudes out there about rape. Some of them conform to the theme of rape culture, while many others are robustly "anti-rape culture." Unless you do a scientific tally, you can't just provide a few case studies and say "there's the proof." Either show that "rape culture" is the dominant culture. Or change the f---ng definition of rape culture to something less ambiguous, without the pretentious wording like "normative," or be more modest and less arrogant. Over-the-top formulations cooked up by academic feminism are easily discernible by these extravagant features. If you speak about rape culture, you must include the Brock Turner case, which caused a national outrage; or this man himself, who went to jail for 9 years. Is that supposed to be rape culture? This is the problem with this sanctimonious alarmist terminology. It serves to confuse people, since most people see rape as extreme, and not normal. It insults our intelligence. And that cannot be a good thing.
    1
  1681. He wants the West to mind its own business, but doesn't extend the same courtesy to his gay citizens. That's known as a double standard: one for the West, and another for himself. A clear cut infraction of the Golden Rule.
    1
  1682.  @sterdezy1569  I already know that. But I hope you don't support jail for gays minding their own business.
    1
  1683.  @stopcensorship7705  A crime is a crime. And The Golden Rule is The Golden Rule. Violations of said rule don't depend on which country violates it.
    1
  1684. It wasn't. Kindly do better research.
    1
  1685. Do you love his murder of opposition party protesters? Like the 54 who were shot to death 2 years ago? And his pardoning of the guilty?
    1
  1686. I must have missed it. Where did you see this Boeing lettering?
    1
  1687. Felony murder rule. This is a pretty good example of its failings. The US is just about the last country in the world that clings to this barbaric relic of English law. Not that it would have made much difference, IMO. The fact is, these men were on trial, not for their actual crimes, but for the entire history of Southern white racism. Under present conditions a fair trial could hardly have been expected. Right now, in the US, racism for many has come to be seen as a crime worse than death. That's what drove this trial, IMO. Basic principles of justice, such as proportionality. due process and reasonable doubt, stood little chance to the bulldozer of hatred of the moment. The crying screaming hysterical masses ran the show here.
    1
  1688. "before thinking rationally and with empathy " I think if we thought rationally we would have to first question the basic premise of AI consciousness. First, we don't even know the first thing about human consciousness. Human brains are chemical based. Computers are not. So the first question is, since you can't pour chemicals into your computer, what would its consciousness be made of? They tell us silicon. OK, let's go with that. What proof is there silicon can substitute for the complex composition of chemical interactions in the brain? Has anyone demonstrated a silicon analog to chemicals? Even if possible in theory, is there a blueprint how to arrange silicon to mimic consciousness? Do we even know the first thing what we are talking about? I'm not denying the possibility of AI consciousness in the very distant future. But in the present context, and without any tangible demonstration, it's pure speculation. It's not even that. It's pure fantasy. As with so many topics, people think the hard work is already understood. But it's not. The going theory is that speed = consciousness. The more computations per second = self-awareness. That's pure speculation, at best. A non-sequitur at worst. So why is this fantastical and even nonsensical proposition treated as practically inevitable? cheers
    1
  1689. He just did a non fatal one the other day, he's also recently done TWA 841. It doesn't seem to me this criticism is warranted as Mentour Pilot hardly comes across as a sensational ambulance chaser. Does he come across that way to you?
    1
  1690. Another unique plane, the extra wide-aisle version of the 727 with a max capacity of 48 passengers.
    1
  1691. It illutrates the extent to which humanity is hardwired for hate.
    1
  1692. But he wasn't responsible.
    1
  1693. Because you'll believe anything.
    1
  1694.  @MoparAdventure  When you have the proof published in a peer review journal, kindly let me know.
    1
  1695.  @MoparAdventure  Again, that's just an empty claim without an accompanying proof. Can you cite any proof that all the engineering and math and science journals have been co-opted by the establishment? Again, you need evidence at some point along this theoretical chain of command. You can't just say it. Any one can make a claim. It means nothing without some substance behind it.
    1
  1696.  @MoparAdventure  Your posts are confirmation of the power of belief over evidence.
    1
  1697. You don't know, it's just a theory.
    1
  1698. Well I don't think that's how it worked. They are guilty of manslaughter because there's absolutely no proof of intent to kill. Travis shot as a reflexive reaction tosuddenly being attacked. How can you not see that? Travis should get the appropriate sentence for creating reckless endangerment that created a dangerous situation. But intent to kill cannot be proven. The judge thinks he's a mind reader. WRONG.
    1
  1699.  @mdjb49  "When he brought and then targeted and aimed his gun at an unarmed man who Travis admitted never threatened physically or verbally any of these three me, he demonstrated intent to kill." Not beyond reasonable doubt. Cannot be proven, though I concede it may well have been the case. "Your murderous hero" Why would I want manslaughter for "my hero"? Shows you are stereotyping anyone who differs with you on the degree of punishment. You cast them all into the same lot. That's not intelligent thinking.
    1
  1700.  @yampy1353  Impossible to know that. In the trial, the medical examiner testified the gun was easily within reach of Arbery when the first shot was fired. The video shows that Travis shot Arbery AFTER he turned to his left and lunged at Travis. So how can anyone know what was going on in Travis' mind when he pulled the trigger? It may have been an understandable reflex reaction to defend yourself. This is what's known as reasonable doubt in my book.
    1
  1701. How would you be different today if your sexual attractions had always been exclusively gay?
    1
  1702. They don't anymore I hope. But the entire operation at the time was a violation by accepted safety standards. The airport was in IMC almost everyday, without instruments!! Shameful.
    1
  1703. If you can't provide the proof, the claim is totally worthless.
    1
  1704. Well that is quite well said.
    1
  1705. That's only the opinion of lower order humans, defined as those for whom violence is a guiding beacon.
    1
  1706. Almost as as bad as the truth movement, a lie unto itself.
    1
  1707.  @terrygabrich4806  He had a perfect right to arrest her. And I'm someone like you, who abhors police abuse.
    1
  1708. Either way, it's a big fat lie, the stolen election. Not even a bad proof.
    1
  1709. @Ilikesparta124 You're going beyond their cognitive zone.
    1
  1710. How so?
    1
  1711. Well I am certainly not. If there were a real Christian God, the plane would not have crashed to begin with. That's according to their own definition of God. cheers
    1
  1712. Agreed. Even if the odds are 99% certain he's done it before or will do it in the future, that 1% of doubt is with reasonable doubt and he has to be given the benefit of it .Especially since, presumably, very few teenage girls are going to be so eager to invite such a man in to their home. So I think it's better of we stick to with real crimes.
    1
  1713. Because we incorrectly tend to assume all men (and women) think just like we do. But they don't. For example, psychopaths don't flinch when shown videos of people being hurt, the way the rest of us do. Deficient emotional circuitry and failure to bond properly as a child can produce lifelong monsters. The list of reasons is probably endless. For me personally, the assumption of rationality is grossly overrated.
    1
  1714. I suppose you support killing gays too, like he does?
    1
  1715. It's not certain that when he revved up the first time he was trying to take off. It has been a common practice over the years, depending on the circumstances, to rev up before take off to ensure the engines spool up evenly before take off thrust is applied. This has been so for the early model 747s according to a few sources. One scenario could be that Van Zanten wished to be revved up the instant he received his clearance, thus gertting as much of a head start as possible. If that was the case, Meurs' warning might have meant, "hey, you are revving up prematurely."
    1
  1716. Also, it's very unlikely, IMO, that VZ was trying to not respect the rules. Presumably, no pilot wishes to kill her/himself, or be reported by his crew and lose his license. More likely there was some kind of lapse or blind spot in his concentration. That he was in a hurry there was no doubt of course.
    1
  1717.  @annabellelee4535  Thank you for your replies. "Then why did his copilot intervene if it's common practice?" You may have missed this part of my reply: " If that was the case, Meurs' warning might have meant, "hey, you are revving up prematurely." In other words, it may have been common practice to rev up on early model 747s, but NOT so soon, before even receiving route clearance. I just suggest this as a possibility. "He took off without clearance knowing that there was another plane on the runway. He was directly responsible for all those deaths." I agree he was directly responsible for the crash. But he had no way of knowing if the Pan Am was on or off the runway. If he did in fact know Pan Am was still on the runway, did he have a death wish then? It makes no sense to take off if you know you might be about to kill yourself (and everyone else.) More likely, he lost his situational awareness, a far more common and understandable lapse. By contrast, only a small handful of commercial pilots have used their aircraft to commit suicide.
    1
  1718.  @annabellelee4535  "How can you whitewash this?" I wrote above: "I agree he was directly responsible for the crash." Is there a misunderstanding here? Thanks
    1
  1719.  @annabellelee4535  Well, I am going by the established facts. Arrogant though he may have been, it's pure speculation to claim as a solid fact, as you seem to be doing, that this was the primary cause of the crash. The actual evidence for this is skimpy. There are many possibilities here. As he was in a hurry and had a good dose of get-there-itis, and was under considerable stress, this precisely where people can begin to lose situational awareness. Another possibility, suggested also by his comments during the taxi, is that he may have been having hearing difficulties. Or, given the st officer's wording "we are now ready for take off and are awaiting our airways clearance, and the answer which immediately followed "You are cleared," may have caused him to confuse his route clearance with the take off clearance. Note, for example, that after waiting for a few moments, he begins to advance the throttles precisely when he heard those words. Just coincidence? Accident reports try to go by the established facts and not insert speculation into them. The people who constantly comment in these sections are not adopting the professionalism of accident investigators. Here's what Pan Am co-pilot Bragg said of Van Zanten, he was "a gentleman who got himself into a hurry." Are your speculations superior to his? He also remarked, "pilots don't cause accidents" intentionally. Which contradicts your claim even an arrogant pilot would try to take off, knowing full well it would likely crash into the Pan Am. Do you not see the inherent absurdity of that? Thanks
    1
  1720.  @annabellelee4535  The evidence for arrogance is mixed. Some claim he was, others called him affable and insisted his colleagues refer to him by his 1st name. "Nothing changes the fact that he decided to take off without clearance knowing full well there was another plane on the runway. " Absolutely not. The only absolutes here are that he took off without the proper clearance. Not receiving clearance doesn't mean an airplane is still on the runway. There may be a delay for a few moments as controllers have to keep track of many movements at once, before they issue clearance. Or, as in this case, they were engrossed in a soccer match on the radio, and that may have distracted them. Much more likely is that Captain Van Zanten had for whatever reason formed a mental picture that the plane had already cleared. I would seriously suggest you go and seek out aviation experts on this crash. I guarantee you the vast majority, if not the totality, will tell you your theory is virtually unthinkable. That's precisely what one of them wrote on another forum. Your theory is totally at odd with common sense. Not even the people who think Van Zanten deliberately violated the rules are saying what you are saying. You are WAY off the deep end. Just go ask commercial pilots. In another video on a different topic, one of the participants in a debate talked about the "irreducible delusion." What he meant is that if you assume a certain fact as absolute, then it might keep you from ever getting at the real truth. But if you can go back and identify this stumbling block, then you able to pluck it out and discard it. The irreducible delusion here, it seems to me, is that Van Zantan HAD to know there was another plane still on the runway. Once you are able to identify this as a totally unproven assumption, then you can remove it from your thinking and come to a more sensible theory. Cheers
    1
  1721. It's a good question. But it's just one of many that comprise the debate over the death penalty. Personally, I am against it in practice, but I cannot pretend there aren't also good cases for it.
    1
  1722. We don't know. The comment, so far at least, is ambiguous.
    1
  1723. Well, the entire roll lasted 10 seconds, and it often takes several seconds to realize what's happening. Imagine sitting in the right rear with your eyes closed. You might never have noticed.
    1
  1724. And murder and torture of the opposition party?
    1
  1725.  @ShiningGalaxy01  Please see "Museveni Must Fall" by Joseph Patrick Segujja. For example between 2018 and 2022 "At least 3,000 nonviolent opposition activists have been tortured." You no doubt must be aware of the 54 peaceful opposition protesters shot dead during the last election. Also see: "Robert Kyagulanyi, a Ugandan pop star-turned-opposition politician, has alleged that security officers beat him and squeezed his genitals until he lost consciousness while in detention, in his first public statement since his arrest last month."
    1
  1726. Wrong
    1
  1727. For the intellectually challenged, evidence is optional.
    1
  1728. Disavowed by one of its producers because of its poor quality.
    1
  1729. @Ting Tong See, that's another example above. Someone who is unenlightened on the subject. It's a never ending chorus of bad reasoning here. Of course, I am predicting he will demonstrate this should he continue.
    1
  1730. And he wants to destroy gay lives. What's the difference?
    1
  1731.  @davidandthatotherguy1369  Preference is wrong. The attractions are not chosen by most.
    1
  1732.  @davidandthatotherguy1369  Yes, every idiot knows that. The debate is about the attraction. And that is not a choice.
    1
  1733. ​ @davidandthatotherguy1369  It's a basic truth that stares us in the face day in and day out. Let's have a look in detail. First, my I ask what are your attractions: gay. straight or bi? For the record mine are gay.
    1
  1734.  @davidandthatotherguy1369  My dating life has been non existent for years. Now, I would love to know this from you: did you ever try to be attracted to women? Or, as with me, did your sexual attractions start to manifest themselves gradually as you were growing up, without any conscious input from you? I remember as young as eight, starting to notice I was attracted to a strong, handsome male teacher in 2nd grade. I didn't know what these feelings meant, of course. But I certainly never said, "Hey, I think I will try to start liking strong tall men." There was never a conscious choice. Indeed, why would an 8-year-old even want to make a decision like that?
    1
  1735. Never forget you are superior to everyone else. You figured it out, and all the other experts are blithering idiots. Got it.
    1
  1736.  @ScottiLewis  I fear they are human bots.
    1
  1737. Because they didn't shoot it down. I have studied this crash in far more detail than Depressed Ginger. He is speaking somewhat sloppily and inaccurately. There were no large chunks of debris anywhere beyond the immediate crash scene. The stuff 8 miles away amounted to little more than a piece of paper or two.
    1
  1738.  @owlhater270  I am, and it's far more enlightening than the three word bot replies of people who think they know everything; and that all the rest of us are blithering id-ots. This is the narcissist element of Youtube. I'm smarter than everyone else.
    1
  1739. Oh he certainly did try to derail the conversation. The proof is in this sentence: "The example that you cite illustrates very well why I do not see any point in a public discussion."
    1
  1740. Well compared to what came later from the GOP, you have a point.
    1
  1741. Amen to the dark side of humanity.
    1
  1742. "Biden winning that election makes about as much sense as requiring ID to vote being racist." There's not an ounce of proof. So the facts mean your thinking is flawed.
    1
  1743. Actually they could have fallen if you read the failure modes spelled out by not just NIST, but other science papers too. The key to understanding this is that due to the twisting motion of the upper blocks at the beginning of the collapses, the upper block columns were now no longer hitting the lower block columns, but instead twisted out of alignment and thus bearing down their weight on a single floor. One floor, with no other support columns between the core and perimeter columns, could not possibly support the weight of the entire upper block. How could it? I am not trying to prove this IS what happened. Merely that you cannot rule it out.
    1
  1744. We all know he was to blame, so why belabor the obvious. BUT, there's no solid evidence arrogance caused the crash.
    1
  1745.  @youtubeuser2195  The evidence for arrogance is not very extensive: 2 little tidbits: the curt response to Pan Am about refueling, and "I'm the boss." That's it. But the main point is that it's only speculation to say arrogance caused the crash. The CVR does not prove why he made the mistakes he made. We should stick to the known facts, just like professional investigators. There are reasons other than arrogance why someone can become rushed or have a lapse.
    1
  1746.  @youtubeuser2195  Some people thought him arrogant, others described him as friendly good natured and insisted his colleagues address him by his first name. You cannot judge character by one event. This may have been a bad day. The late 1st officer Bragg, who had every right to be critical, called him "a gentleman who got himself into a rush. . . We all have a tendency to do it." Do you know better than he did?
    1
  1747.  @koala5054  Nope, wrong. Pew research, the gold standard on public opinion, shows the world is very divided on the subject. Most people in the West consider homosexuality normal and acceptable. Personally, I'm kind of grossed out by "gay sex," too. I don't practice it. Many gays do not. And Pew also finds one in three straight men in the US practiced it in the last year. So it's all around a mixed picture.
    1
  1748. Please, we need a sense of balance and good will here.
    1
  1749. I thought conservatives would be the first to agree with the article. For it seems liberals are the ones who seem less and less patriotic.
    1
  1750. According to the depraved mind, yes.
    1
  1751. This makes no sense to me. The FAA only acts when absolutely forced to, like after a deadly crash. There must be some other motive here.
    1
  1752. TNT traces: one speculative possibility is what happened in the TWA 800 case. Initially they were picking up traces of explosives residue. But it was considered very unlikely such traces would still be found on the wreckage after so many weeks in the ocean. It was therefore deduced that the bom-b experts most likely had unwittingly contaminated the evident afterward, as their equipment and clothing could have contained trace elements in the course of their work and training.
    1
  1753. Now considered white male privilege by the illiberal left.
    1
  1754. Doesn't matter. He didn't deserve to die, He had apparent mental issues, it has been reported.
    1
  1755. More evidence this was not an inside job.
    1
  1756. It just goes to show how evidence can be very strong for completely opposing theories.
    1
  1757.  @therainman7777  I think the discussion implies it. Concern is on many levels: 29:55 "digital god more intelligent than we are" suggests that possibility. Here's Harris in the Reuben Report: " he also brings up the idea that it is important to solve consciousness before superintelligence (especially if superintelligence wipes us out) in hope for a future inclusive of the value that consciousness experience entails" I don't think that concern is real, but it seems to be the common narrative nowadays.
    1
  1758. Inside your imagination.
    1
  1759. They already kicked him out.
    1
  1760. I think because the case polarized even people of basic decency. Some will say a one-time mistake is not grounds for prison. If you cannot at least see the case for that, it only shows again how so many people cannot put themselves inside the shoes of another.
    1
  1761. I agree with you to an extent. The US has its own agendas. But when Musevini claims gays could wipe out the human race, he's also engaged in extremism. It's one thing to not care for gays. But to make up obvious lies and make it sound like armageddon is not much better. Like you said, Uganda has worse problems.
    1
  1762. It's completely understandable that when one is exposed as a BS artist by someone who does his homework, he will demand an end to the discussion he so eagerly sought only hours earlier. And storm out of the room like a tripped-up teenager. I can't answer every point in one post. But here's my short answer to some other points you raised. -Mach 4 debris. Again, you fail to distinguish between proof and a "clue." The radar suggests the possibility of high speed ejection. But like Sanders' . .
    1
  1763. I don't think the whole truth has come out, as far as the general public is concerned. They think it all boiled down to a changed coordinate.
    1
  1764.  @a.l.m.o.  “She had three other kids with her and turned her back. … And if anyone doesn’t believe a 3-year-old can scamper off very quickly, they’ve never had kids.” -the Ohio prosecutor There you go.
    1
  1765.  @a.l.m.o.  And finally, “Had she been in the bathroom smoking crack and let her kids run around the zoo that’d be a different story,” he told reporters on Monday. “She was attending to her children by all witness accounts and the 3-year-old just scampered off.”
    1
  1766.  @Alleged_Entertainment  Shows there's a real disconnect in thinking there's only one valid point of view. The case against the DP is absolutely valid. For one, the DP is a cop-out. Since none of us can experience being dead, the DP prevents the killer from having to live through his punishment. He escapes all the decades of loneliness and depravation that life in prison imposes. Is that really a punishment?
    1
  1767. I would say it might well be an "excuse," in the sense that the study of heuristics makes clear than when under stress and time pressure, we are ALL prone to the possibility of even basic error. I am not saying this applies here. But I think we owe anyone due process when a mistake is made. Because it could happen to any of us. It's wishful thinking to maintain otherwise. This goes counter to intuition, but I believe the research bears this out.
    1
  1768. Only if you confine yourself to truther sites and block out all other sources.
    1
  1769.  @mehere8-32  Sorry I'm not fluent in internet code.
    1
  1770.  @Robert_D_Mercer  Yes, the truth matters to me.
    1
  1771.  Samuel in Seattle  I agree except Kim Potter is an example of mistakes - however serious - under stress/ pressure. This was not as much the case here.
    1
  1772. "It happened when he stopped." Well obviously, whoever said that meant "would've stopped before running right up to them." Isn't it painfully obvious that Arbery's decision to turn left at the last moment and confront Travis MAY have been the reason Travis pulled the trigger? This obvious denial of reality was able to bypass a system so fueled with racial hysteria that even elementary standards of reasoning were dispensed with.
    1
  1773. rocket fuel ctd. . . . . "The silicon and calcium are telling; they make up 27 percent of the sample by weight, but they are not used in anywhere near those proportions in any rocket propellant reported in the technical literature. Neither Sanders nor any of the proponents of the missile theory have been able to explain convincingly how these high levels of silicon and calcium could be found in rocket propellant." Dicsuss, Mr. Big Shot.
    1
  1774. Totally agreed. But the fact is, women have to change too. As radical feminist Phyllis Chesler has written, the patriarchal system is kept in place by both genders. Look at all the woman rushing to Trump's support. Women flock to the alpha males because they want to share in the status and power. There is no "universal voice of women." It's a total myth.
    1
  1775.  @killme7820  Not the attraction. We don't choose our attractions. All informed people know that at best, only some of us can choose our sexual orientation. And even that's questionable.
    1
  1776.  @MrCaiobrz  I don't think I would want to stay there anytime soon, though grey is my favorite color.
    1
  1777. It seems obvious to me with reports of severe turbulence they should have waited.
    1
  1778. It's not certain once you reveal the flaws in the missile theory.
    1
  1779.  @PartyExpress-  But Elvis did.
    1
  1780. You're right. No one can know for sure. But due process requires the accused gets the benefit of the doubt.
    1
  1781.  @Westberg246  "MISTAKES are not defensible" Now I've lost you. As I've said on other threads, the research on heuristics (fancy name: decisions under a deadline) doesn't bear this out. It tends to show that shortcut thinking is never perfect even for highly experienced people. No one is entirely immune. These errors are often unconscious so they can't be detected as they happen. This notion of absolute perfection goes against the real world. Some mistakes are defensible, unless you think we humans have complete control over all of our actions at all time. Seems to me that's a fantasy world you describe. "That benefit of the doubt DOOMS many future victims of brutality." And dispensing with reasonable doubt dooms many innocent people to prison or worse. We see this especially with the new generation of DNA evidence, which has made frighteningly clear just how flawed the jury system has been in murder cases, for example. I totally disagree we need to dispense with due process. We've survived it very well for generations. Without due process, we are free to wreck the lives of innocent people in a way which is far more cruel. Intentionally playing fast and loose with people's rights is only a notch or two above vigilantism, in my opinion. Thank you for a challenging discussion.
    1
  1782.  @Westberg246  Of course I agree racism is still rampant in this country, and stereotypes abound, and the police rely on them too much. No argument from me. "how you can forgive her lapse of reason and then condemn Wright's survival instinct " I don't think I said that. I well understand the survival fight or flight. It's human nature. We do see some things a bit differently, and that can make for interesting conversation. Thank you for a civil exchange. I don't know Minnesota law except from this passage: "A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both: (1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another..." Maybe you can help me here. It seems to be saying, even for 2nd degree, that there must be a conscious intent to take a chance. If that really is the full story, I don't see how this even came to court, as we (mostly all) agree she didn't consciously take a chance. The only thing she did consciously was intend to use a taser. Thoughts?
    1
  1783.  @creamlust6669  It's precisely because blacks have NOT been given the benefit of the doubt that they have more to lose in the long run if we trash fair trials. Everyone loses that way. If it was you who were on trial and you knew you were innocent, even though the evidence looked damning, would you still be complaining about due process?
    1
  1784. It landed in Memphis to pick up Elvis.
    1
  1785. Maybe. But it's speculation this was the main cause of the crash. My rule is, go by facts, not speculation.
    1
  1786.  @daver1161  They conducted an illegal pursuit. Against Georgia law. Maybe this is the reason why. Confronting someone with a gun isn't wise. They created a situation with unnecessary risk, at best. But I have an open mind and can be convinced otherwise.
    1
  1787.  @daver1161  Well everywhere I look I read things like this: BRUNSWICK, Ga. (WSAV) – The McMichael’s told police they were attempting to make a citizen’s arrest. News 3 is looking at Georgia’s laws. Georgia’s Citizen’s Arrest Law allows people to arrest anyone that they’ve witnessed committing a crime in their presence or has immediate knowledge of the crime, but attorneys around the state say that wasn’t the case in Ahmaud Arbery’s death. Discuss
    1
  1788.  @daver1161  "trying to wrestle away a gun. You have the right to defend yourself if someone tries to disarm you." Well here's where it gets tricky. Suppose the rifle was pointed at Arbery the instant he comes around, which seems a good guess. So this would be assault with a deadly weapon. Can we be sure which way the gun was pointed?
    1
  1789. You are right. It's easier to polarize than acknowledge even victims can have a dark side. Neither of these 2 men were exactly a role model for anyone.
    1
  1790.  @LoreEclectic  No on said he was doing anything illegal.
    1
  1791. ​ @dd-ph9fv  Many gays have happy and productive lives. I know some of them. Yours is willful ignorance. You believe according to having been brainwashed as a youngster. This allows you to be blind to plainly obvious evidence.
    1
  1792. Whether correct or not, God does not approve of your actions, which is disrespectful to the people here who came to discuss the Arbery case. They didn't come here for a religious sermon.
    1
  1793. Because the trans activists only care about themselves. But there are two sides to the equation. They don't care the effect they have on others.
    1
  1794.  Sid the Sloth  How do you know what I do in my private life? Once again it says to me you don't even know the definition of homosexual. What else is new in the land of stereotypes.
    1
  1795.  Sid the Sloth  "I get what you’re saying. I know homosexuals are born the way they are, if you still live like a normal human and don’t do anything dirty then it’s all good. That being said, let’s not act like most homosexuals don’t do disgusting acts." Then the criticism should be about a particular form of sexual conduct. For starters, defining gays as a behavior is sexist because it obviously excludes gay women, as if what they do doesn't matter. While it's hard to know for sure, a good guess is that at least 20% of gay men do not practice b-- sex. And in the US, 35% of men admit to having practiced this form of sex in the last year. So let's do the math. If 80% of gay men do a- - - sex, and let's say almost no gay women do, then perhaps less than half of gay people practice this. Then add the 10s of millions of straight men who practice this and we have the makings of a classic stereotype. As a gay man, I do not find this an appealing option, I find it kind of gross, have never done it, so please don't define me in those terms. Gay is primarily an attraction. So let's define homosexuals accordingly. It leads to a better discussion. But I thank you for being more enlightened and tolerant than most.
    1
  1796. I agree. BUT I have one big complaint. The stuff stinks up everything. Since they legalized in Massachusetts, you smell it frequently, people walking into gas stations and smelling it up, illegally in parks. Don't such people have any sense of consideration? The idea seems to be they have the right to stink up any place they feel like. So I would be in favor of stiff fines for stinking up public places. These people don't give a damn about anyone but themselves. They are selfish piglets.
    1
  1797.  @tye829  Exactly, not a high priority for cops, which is not surprising. It's just one of my pet peeves.
    1
  1798.  @LeftyPlaysRighty  Disclaimer: anything is possible. But you actually have a double lack of evidence. 1- no evidence of a shoot down 2- no evidence that "our government wanted it." So what makes you so sure? Or is it more a case of intuition?
    1
  1799.  @MentourPilot  Agreed, but I do think we should be very firm that Van Zanten's error was by far the most basic and biggest lapse. At least within the system. The system itself is another question of course. To not say this invites accusations of bias. Yes, sure, the KLM captain has been ridiculously vilified, and it may be true the Dutch report is correct in the reasoning for Van Zanten's mistake. But that in no way justifies saying all the little mistakes were of equal size. Absolutely wrong -- which is more or less the conclusion of the Dutch addendum.
    1
  1800. Well it was shown, contrary to Dauber's distortions, that the judge also showed leniency to black defendants too.
    1
  1801.  @stopcensorship7705  There are people who can help you, specialists in anger management. It's not normal spending every waking moment seeking out every gay video on Youtube. Obsessive compulsive disorder a bare minimum. You are missing out on all the other joys of life. You must live all by yourself and have social anxiety disorder. Whatever you have, it isn't normal.
    1
  1802.  @stopcensorship7705  Must be a very limited life given all the time you spend here obsessing about people who aren't a threat to you.
    1
  1803.  @stopcensorship7705  It takes little time when one has nothing to say.
    1
  1804.  @stopcensorship7705  Science literacy continued: "Twin and family studies have shown that same-sex sexual behavior is partly genetically influenced, but previous searches for specific genes involved have been underpowered. We performed a genome-wide association study (GWAS) on 477,522 individuals, revealing five loci significantly associated with same-sex sexual behavior. In aggregate, all tested genetic variants accounted for 8 to 25% of variation in same-sex sexual behavior, only partially overlapped between males and females, and do not allow meaningful prediction of an individual’s sexual behavior. Comparing these GWAS results with those for the proportion of same-sex to total number of sexual partners among nonheterosexuals suggests that there is no single continuum from opposite-sex to same-sex sexual behavior. Overall, our findings provide insights into the genetics underlying same-sex sexual behavior and underscore the complexity of sexuality." Please refute.
    1
  1805. Think it's more complicated than this. There's rape culture, which explains much of the silence. But there's something else here that's rarely mentioned. Men are constantly afraid of harm coming to their wives and daughters.: they clearly loathe rape. BUT, just as women can never completely trust men, men also have experienced the fact that you cannot completely trust women either. Women own the "meat package" industry, and men know this. They know that one misinterpreted move, and their lives can be ruined. Thus they are constantly in a state of anxiety about s-x. The takeaway is, and just my theory, men maybe reluctant to join anti-violence marches, or speak out, because down deep they have the "false accusation" anxiety. Is this reaction all cultural, part of the rape culture patriarchal mindset? Or as Steven Pinker suggests in a different context, that mistrust is one of the biggest problems with human nature everywhere?
    1
  1806. And one final point if I might. I have no doubt much of what you say is true. Many men stay silent. But, so do many women. Most women I know have not been activists, or participated in rallies or marches against se-ual violance either. Why should a man be more obligate than a woman to take action just because he has a pe-is?
    1
  1807. Deluded, deceitful and divisive to the last, Trump's adolescent tantrums are not tolerated by civilized folk, confirmation emerging from so many Trump supporters who have stated they've had enough. When Rush joins the crowd, you know it's time to give up. Be a good sport and stop supporting a sore loser with grand delusions. Come on back down to reality.
    1
  1808. @ * L3v1t4ti0nz * You are either one of those relatively few people who are bisexual; or you are simply out of touch with reality. Most people cannot "feel attractions to anything." That's absurd on the face of it. If this were true, why have so many gay people signed up for gay conversion therapy? Please think before answering.
    1
  1809.  @haxzaw8550  "They probably signed up because they KNEW it was wrong" You miss the point. If people can be attracted to anything, and it's a choice, there would be no need for the conversion therapy !!!
    1
  1810.  @haxzaw8550  On top of which, the therapy has been an embarrassing failure. In depth interviews reveal that most of the so-called "ex-gays" merely changed their behavior. They did not actually have heterosexual attraction. With the leaders of these programs recanting and admitting they never really changed, it has been nothing short of a scandal.
    1
  1811.  @haxzaw8550  "I did a I know people can feel attractions to just about anything cause ive seen it" I'm sure some people can change, or at least claim to have changed. Most cannot. That's the big mental leap you are not prepared to make.
    1
  1812. The irony is painful to watch. Absolutely, a stupid moron in the truest senses.
    1
  1813. The judge is impressive on several levels. He shows his great humanity. But not at 14:10. For that is precisely what he and the jurors did: assume the worst of Travis, rather than admit no one can know with any degree of confidence that malice, rather than spontaneous self defense, was his mindset when he pulled the trigger. If we go with the latter, then 2nd degree murder or 1st degree manslaughter (or the equivalent in Georgia) better matches the crime. IMO it's high;y likely that racial hysteria played not only a huge part in the crime itself, but in the reaction to it. People are so d-mn sick of racism . and understandably so, that collective rage rather than proportional due process won out. It was payback time no matter what.
    1
  1814. They went strictly by the manual.
    1
  1815. Because you have to look at the whole context. There were two significant events very close together in time. There is the encounter we all saw on video - Arbary unexpectedly grabs gun and Travis fires instinctively in self defense. But what most people have not learned is that several seconds before that, Travis aims his gun right at Arbery. That's assault with a deadly weapon, and that cannot be left out of the equation. You have no right to point a loaded gun at someone just because they are jogging towards you.
    1
  1816. Yes, thank you for not assuming he is just an ordinary man.
    1
  1817.  @Jack-m6q3m  I like your style. Put them real groomers in their place. Stop-Cens is so stup-d he thinks I can change my orientation through hormonal treatments, but never mentions which ones. A truly towering figure of cognitive mush.
    1
  1818. Has it ever occurred to you that if the government's claim of a gravity driven collapse is in fact the junk science truthers say, any idiot could unravel the plot in 2 seconds, and the engineering community would have unanimously declared it controlled demolition from day one. Since that did not happen, the theory is garbage on that basis alone. Unless you think the US government is nuts.
    1
  1819.  @jasonhickerson2235  Only a 4th grader would seriously entertain the concept that a government would commit 100% impossible physics to fool the world. That's a crackpot theory. Plain and simple.
    1
  1820.  @jasonhickerson2235  "100% impossible physics? " So you agree that gravity driven collapses of all three towers did not violate physics? Beautiful.
    1
  1821.  @jasonhickerson2235  You say very little in proportion to the amount you post. I am not calling it a character "defect," just a comment on the failure of some to grasp reality at all levels. I am not saying necessarily you personally. You can insult me all day long. It doesn't change the fact that governments wishing to fool the world don't stay up all night saying, "Gee let's invent impossible collapses." or "Gee, let's invent impossible cell phone calls." Do you seriously theorize along such lines? Really?? You should ask yourself why you embrace it - if you do, that is. Now you get all defensive and spew out a bunch of worthless claims, and play grammar police -- a tried and true indication of the level of seriousness of said poster-- because I dare to call a crackpot theory by its real name. If this does not register as nuts on your end, I can't help you. Notice you say all these things about me without an iota of proof. This is in keeping with the truth movement, who in general are in love with ideas in proportion to how little evidence are in their support.
    1
  1822.  @jasonhickerson2235  If you want to see a true professional who knows his physics cold debate a somewhat clueless engineer, I recommend you watch Ryan Mackey and Tony Szamboti in their 3-part debate here on Youtube. There is no doubt who is master of the physics.
    1
  1823.  @tpryce6342  Thanks for filling me in.
    1
  1824.  @jasonhickerson2235  "Now, once again. Do you or do you not wish to debate me concerning the physics of 911? Yes or no?" No thanks. This is where any person good at rhetorical skills can pick any tiny technical detail and turn it into a litmus test for 911 physics. I'm not falling for that. If you have a proof, send it to a science journal. Something the truth mvt absolutely refuses to do. Maybe you will be the first.
    1
  1825. The truth movement has never ONCE had any of their articles published in a peer review journal, or respected science journal. Not ONCE. The reason is mainly because they absolutely refuse to.
    1
  1826. @UC2MekSS3AS4LFzl-sGrNvJQ I am through, so don't expect any more replies from me. But I think you will enjoy the debate even if you disagree with Mackey.
    1
  1827.  @richardalvarado9807  Direct me to one of their peer reviewed papers.
    1
  1828.  @tpryce6342  Do you think we've scared Big Jason away? All his posts have vanished. What a fraud. edit: his posts are back - must be another Youtube flaw. My apologies to you if still here.
    1
  1829.  @richardalvarado9807  That's exactly why it IS a good example. Adults thinking like 4th graders. Bingo.
    1
  1830.  @richardalvarado9807  You are taking my analogy too literally. I am saying, IMPO only, that a lot of truthers exhibit 4th-grade level JUDGEMENT. And further, it may well be some 10-year-olds do read about and research 9/11.When I was 10, I knew everything about commercial planes. I knew the flight numbers of the planes that flew over my house, I could identify any plane and airline type thanks to a fascination with OAG flight guides. I also studied geography, knew every state capital and country capital. So even if taken literally, you're still wrong. Not all 10-year-olds areincapable of basic research skills, the way many truthers seem to be.
    1
  1831.  @c.augustedupin2559  Yes that's right. I am God. I thought I already explained that to you.
    1
  1832.  @jason8952  No thanks. I don't have a degree in structural engineering. Do you?
    1
  1833.  @jason8952  Did you read what I wrote directly below that in the same post?
    1
  1834. Well I would invoke the standard of reasonable doubt against this position. Just as a court of law requires proof beyond reasonable doubt for a murder conviction, something as controversial as the very concept of abortion qualifying as a crime, also needs such a proof. Despite pro-lifers' best efforts, there is no unambiguous proof that a fetus has the same moral status as you and me. This is especially so when there's not even a brain, as in the first few weeks of embryohood. Can we definitively answer the question, is having a brain 100% irrelevant to this question. Is it possible to cause the same degree of harm to a zygote as to you and me? The question has no answer beyond a reasonable doubt. So what about later term fetuses? The older the fetus, the harder the questions get. But my only point here is to show that once we show the fallibility of the "biological argument," as I call it, there is no longer this claim of absolutism on the table. That other drawing lines may indeed be more in keeping with justice.
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  1835. No they are not ignorant. They are more enlightened.
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  1836.  @harveysmith100  Just saw your more recent comments. All is forgiven!
    1
  1837.  @pietrojenkins6901  Certainly not Ethiopian at least.
    1
  1838. Not only do many think so, but the older cell phones had an even greater range than today. as they were mostly analog. Just call any telecom expert. You can also read the article "unsafe at any Altitude," about the IEEE Spectrum study in 2003 that tracked 37 commercial flights up and down the East Coast. It found cell calls were connected at all phases of flight. cheers
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  1839.  StopCensorship4---2  Since you are an expert on the hormonal theory of homosexuality, you must have SOME idea what treatment would allow me to choose heterosexuality. Or are you just another scientific fraud?
    1
  1840.  StopCensorship4---2  You are a joke. How do you expect me to change my hormones? That shows gay is not a choice. You dug yourself into an inescapable hole with your hormonal nonsense response. You only fool yourself.
    1
  1841.  StopCensorship4---2  So you agree, I didn't choose to be gay. My hormones did that. Are we in agreement?
    1
  1842.  StopCensorship4---2  I am going to give you a gigantic kiss. We are finally in agreement! I didn't choose to be gay. My hormones did. I'm so happy we finally see eye to eye. Take care Big Guy
    1
  1843.  @koala5054  Grumpy? I'm in good spirits actually. You must have me confused with someone else.
    1
  1844. Because the tale of a fake "crash" targeting blades of grass is way beyond BS.
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  1845. Hopefully not from the perspective of the fringe psycho truthers, such as their claim the war on terror/Iraq could not have been fought without some heroes starring in an airborne melodrama. Not even Hollywood for Kids could come up with that.
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  1846. The idea he is a rapist is absurd, at least based on the evidence presented.
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  1847.  @gracechapel2464  I'm not always good at deciphering things in print. Still not sure what the "factual claim" is you were making. Personally, I am not sure exactly what gender dysphoria even means, even having discussed it ad nauseam with various friends, and even my psychiatrist. For example, I am a gay male, rather passive by "masculine" standards, have no interest in professional sports, very unaggressive, at least physically, I was the sissy boy who cried during snowball fights. But I never came to feel confusion, or a sense of a mismatch with my biological sex. So, how exactly does this work? I'm still not sure. Any insights would be helpful. I assume I have some sort o blind spot in understanding this.
    1
  1848.  @gracechapel2464  Thank you for your thoughts.
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  1849. How old are you?
    1
  1850. You miss the bigger picture IMHO. The real injustice is prosecuting teen sex when they are only a few years apart in age. Many if not most states now have introduced an age-difference clause, which in some cases is even up to 5 years, because of the manifest absurdity of criminalizing teens who are dating/having sex when they are so close in age. May I prevail upon you to reconsider? cheers
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  1851. I would say it's up for grabs. The thing here is that the comment is quite ambiguous. It could mean either that killing Arbery was the "good deed." OR he might have simply meant that he was being a good citizen by trying to catch a thief. At this point the case has been so poisoned by public pressure and racial hysteria, that justice here is probably hopeless.
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  1852. The bible is true: true to the ancients who made it all up. That's why murder and slavery and war are so celebrated. Do you agree with God a cursing child ought to be executed? Go for it. That's Leviticus for you.
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  1853.  @cassinonarayan5508  I would say you're probably right, but not beyond reasonable doubt. So the choice is malice murder or manslaughter.
    1
  1854.  @Mike-nt9sx  Well we can test that: Does the film show Travis shooting out of malice? Or does it show him shooting to protect himself from a man who has just charged him and grabbed his gun?
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  1855.  @83wasagoodyear  Some people can't accept differences of opinion graciously. They are the real losers.
    1
  1856. Unfortunately, Boeing now means Broken.
    1
  1857. It speaks for most Americans. 73% at last count.
    1
  1858.  @Abner-gu3ve  Pew survey, the gold standard for surveying public opinion. 73% of US citizens said they were accepting of homosexuality as of 2019. If you have better evidence please provide.
    1
  1859.  @Angelum_Band  You must have me confused with another poster. I never stated most US citizens voted for Biden. Show me where I said that.
    1
  1860. I think the mental health issue has mostly been used in Arbery's favor, no?
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  1861. Worldwide there have been many male voices. But not much in France, or at the courthouse protests. That doe not serve French men well.
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  1862. So you are a fan of 7-year-old manners I take it.
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  1863. Not a Harris fanboy, I agree with the video there are both good insight and flaws in Harris. But that said, this video commentary provides scant analysis of the actual email exchange. I think the most regrettable part is that Harris presents his book passages in the spirit of "hey, maybe I misrepresented you, if so, let me try to correct them." And before this process even begins Chomsky puts up a barb wired fence and STOPS the process by saying "The example that you cite illustrates very well why I do not see any point in a public discussion." Why is it a mark of civility and sophistication to deny someone the chance to correct their views? I can only conclude that Chomsky defenders in this case have not seen fit to understand the context of what Harris is attempting to do. cheers
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  1864. No to sexual predators with 26 cases pending.
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  1865. Would there be enough of them?
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  1866. Well he stated he was in favor of "termination of all rules...even those found in the Constitution." That's a direct quote. What you say if Hillary said that?
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  1867. But here's where I disagree. Your view, and the view of racist alt-right southern racist pigs, are to me two polarized extremes. Yours is less so, but the missing ingredient is this: what was Travis' mindset the instant he pulled the trigger. Was it "cold blooded" racist hatred? Or could it also have been an instinctive reflex reaction when someone charges you, possibly grabbing your gun in the process? That's where, in my view, the jury thought they were mind readers. And in the process denying due process to Travis. I think playing God with others is wrong, even if we know they are no good racist pigs who have no respect for black lives.
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  1868. I think you're mixing flight 191 with 587. There was no rudder issue on the DC-10.
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  1869. The opposite is true. Stop the Steal was founded in 2016 !!, long before the 2020 election. It was founded by the crank Roger Stone, specifically to start the brainwashing process four years early. Thus it was a forgone conclusion that if Biden won, they would declare it a fraud regardless of the facts. Once again, the proof itself is never offered. If it was there, you and others would be citing the links like crazy. That you don't is double confirmation of the brainwashing that has been readily welcome by you, and others who do not understand the nature of evidence.
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  1870.  @alohaappliancerepair9507  Since there's not so much an ounce of proof for that statement, what drives you and others to repeat these disproven lies? Most sensible people believe on the basis of evidence. So if they see a blue car, they will tell you they saw a blue car. But when you see a blue car, you would call it red. How does this bizarre psychology work? I'm all ears.
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  1871.  @tayc9855  You have zero proof of election fraud great enough to reverse the results of the election. If you did, you and others would have posted it by now.
    1
  1872.  @tayc9855  You have more than amply proven my point. You have posted something like 8 replies to me in less than 24 hours and not a single proof has been provided. You are saying you posted MORE than 8 replies to me?? really? And they were all deleted? How many of your replies containing proof were deleted?
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  1873.  @tayc9855  I also don't believe you because other posters have provided links, and after several weeks I see they are still up there. The real reason you don't provide real proofs is because there aren't any.
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  1874. I agree. But I still find room for a tad of anger. If we are going to give effective life sentences for unintentional acts, why not just abolish manslaughter. Abolish all such distinctions. Why not go full throttle with this logic and execute everyone for every illegal act. I know the victim has every right to say what she said, but saying her pain will "bring joy to me," is ultimately the dark side of human nature speaking. You would think the defendant was Hitler.
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  1875. Excessive hate I think.
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  1876.  @owlhater270  Not at all. I actually do my homework. For example I spoke to Brent Blanchard long before he became a mini celebrity, and he explained that gravity always explains the collapse speed of a CD. Did you know every time a body landed on the pavement it sounded like a bomb going off? It is Youtube truthers who routinely are lazy and can't lift a finger to do their own research. I highly recommend you watch the three part debate "Hardfire TONY SZAMBOTI / RYAN MACKEY / RONALD WIECK" If it doesn't show up on Youtube's search bar, use Google. In it, Mackey demonstrates complete mastery of subject, and explains why the collapses happened. cheers
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  1877. Personally, I don't see either accident as mostly a corporate matter. Both KLM and ANZ did shirk responsibility. But in the case of KLM, the most studied crash in aviation history, it's impossible to know if the strict duty time policy was the primary cause. For ANZ, far more complex I think.
    1
  1878. ​ @leewilliams.380  "go back to science class" Problem with this clichéd truther claim is that it's one of dumbest of their fantasies about how reality works. In this case, their model allegedly goes like this: the government knows full well that in 9/11 they are violating basic science at every turn; science that is so BASIC that any Youtube bloke can figure it out in two seconds flat; and therefore, in their arsenal of magic tricks, is the ability to fool the worldwide community of engineers and physicists about basic science; or to absolutely terrify them into total silence for 20 years. Now, no serious person believes something so absurd. The truthers need to come up with more credible logic or rational paradigm if they want to extricate themselves from the oblivion of Youtube chat and other irrelevant venues.
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  1879.  @PoetryZound  Funny how these alleged truth finders never seem to be able to find these readily available quotes.
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  1880.  @PoetryZound  THX, maybe you could help me with this nice little mystery. Let's call it "Why was a seemingly useless crash in the middle of f-ing nowhere so vital to the War on Terror?" Challenging, isn't it. But let's give it a try shall we? Well let's see here, start with nearly 3,000 deaths and several collapsed / destroyed buildings. Do you think the government just wanted a nice little frosting on the cake, you know, an extra 44 deaths for good measure? Or we could take the flight 93 heroes, maybe it was those heroes yes, you know, the ones the government said never even made it into the cockpit. That must be it!! On second thought maybe it was the grass? Targeting blades of grass, yes on further reflection that must be it !! Without dead grass the War on Terror would have been impossible. How silly of me!  OK, now it's your turn.
    1
  1881.  @leewilliams.380  And Lee, I wouldn't want to exclude you from all the fun and games. So here's another question you might help me with. Now let's see, the government wanted to try really really hard to convince us a real plane filled with real people crashed into a real field. SO, let's leave aside they decided to choose the least convincing form of plane crash - as you say, very careful to not leave any nice big obvious pieces. Let's just leave that part aside. My question to you is, why did the government apparently sprinkle confetti over New Baltimore, some 8 miles downwind from the alleged crash site? Was it to convince us the plane crashed all in one piece? Or perhaps it was just to make us believe this crash was so odd that we would implicate the government in a fake crash?
    1
  1882.  @leewilliams.380  "It’s scientifically impossible for a plane that size to turn to dust." Agree. But no one said that except you.
    1
  1883.  @leewilliams.380  You know, I've always been curious. Why was it so important for bldg 7 to collapse at free fall speed? What was the government's alleged rush? After 7 hours, a few extra seconds collapse time would not have altered anything. Do you suppose the government selected a collapse time of 6.5 seconds just to implicate themselves? Inquiring minds want to know.
    1
  1884.  @PoetryZound  There are no photos of the War of 1812, so it obviously didn't happen.
    1
  1885.  @benderrodriguez9406  Not nearly enough.
    1
  1886.  @benderrodriguez9406  The fact is, for a thread that perhaps a small trickle of viewers might just possibly still be reading, I have to split my meager paycheck by three, such is the demand for shills. Actually the government wanted six for this thread. That's where I put my foot down.
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  1887.  @RealKombat  Cloud 9
    1
  1888.  Life-is-a-mist  Yes. It's clearer than ever why the truth mvt is now largely relegated to the most irrelevant of venues like Youtube comment threads. It has fallen into oblivion precisely by putting forth the most bizarre, even lunatic, of ideas. Sane people look at this stuff - like the pointless crash of flight 93 made into a conspiratorial soap opera. And vomit. Or laugh. Take your pick. People who don't have the judgement to separate fact from fantasy are not the type of people who would recognize their own psychological disabilities.
    1
  1889.  @timower5850  The evidence: pictures, phone calls from pax, radar tapes showing the track of the plane, hijackers made reservations using their real names, seismic reading, at least a dozen witnesses to plane impacting ground, both black boxes, FDR readout on web, crater matches 757 40 degrees nose down, trooper found engine in pond, 1100 recover workers from 74 organizations report nothing suspicious, 40 passengers ID'd from body fragments, That's at least a dozen strands of evidence. By contrast, you have nothing, zilch. No evidence that any of this was faked. ZERO. You want a good analogy? Look up Ethiopian 737Max crash (flight 302.) DO NOT tell me about the wreckage photos. There is a PRE-EXCAVATION photo that proves almost all the debris was found under the crater, just like F93. The wreckage photos are POST-EXCAVATION. The pictures are eerily similar. If you can't find the picture, go to Mick West's sight and type in both flight numbers, where you will see them side by side in a thread devoted to this at his website, which Google will not allow me to post.
    1
  1890.  @timower5850  You need a crash course on plane crashes. I study them as a hobby, and long before 911. It's obvious you don't. "Always show major pieces." Take a look at PSA flight 1771. There's a Mayday series episode on it, though it may have been taken down from Youtube. The first recovery workers had no idea they were looking at an airliner. They thought it was a small plane carrying newspapers, Just confetti spread out over a hill. No bodies either.Tell me if you see any major pieces of debris: say, a tail, an engine, and report back. Have fun.
    1
  1891.  @timower5850  "Nothing at the Pentagon crash site (per journalist Jamie McIntyre) " The book >>Firefight>> is 100s of pages of evidence refuting that. But you guys only get your info from one side - the side that fits.
    1
  1892.  @CooJoe05  It's you who is the sheeple. You follow junk truth sites like cows to slaughter. Yes, the media lie. Yes, the government lies (is that supposed to be some profound insight?) But 911 truth is the biggest liar of all.
    1
  1893.  @timower5850  "The middle of nowhere is precisely where you would have another 'plane' go down. " Absurd speculation. If you were the government, would you rather have "flight 93" target a building and kill hundreds more? Or have it target grass in the middle of nowhere? If people read that in a serious publication like, say, Foreign Affairs, subscribers would be canceling en masse. C'mon, you can do better than that.
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  1894.  @timower5850  Live and first hand accounts are the ones that are often the least reliable. Another example of common sense eluding the truther brain. But in this case, you only confirm to the informed reader that you can't do basic research, and that 9/11 truth is a joke. Here are some other things McIntyre said that very morning: "“I can see parts of the airplane that crashed into the building — very small pieces of the plane — on the heliport outside the building. The biggest piece I saw was about three-feet long. It was silver and it had been painted green and red, but I could not see any identifying markings on the plane. I also saw a large piece of shattered glass that appeared to be a cockpit windshield or other window from the plane.” So, "I can see parts of the airplane" gets morphed into "nothing." Do you begin to see why 9/11 truth has withered away into oblivion? With each new post, you guys demonstrate your massive incompetence. After 21 years, sensible people have experienced truther burnout. Cherry picking, laziness, shockingly poor research skills (like yours), and an inability to grasp common sense, and on down the list. I've told many people that 9/11 Truth is a great place to teach people about the most basic pitfalls of bad research. Rarely does one encounter clustered together so many of the elementary failures of critical thinking, of bad research skills and evidence gathering in one place.
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  1895.  @timower5850  "as a rebuttal to "You know, it might have appeared that way, but from my close up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon..." It was a rebuttal to your word "nothing' Hey, that's YOUR word. You posted it here. You said McIntyre said there was "nothing." Now you try to slide out of your claim by pretending my reply was in response to "it might have appeared." Do you think you fool anyone? "Everything you say is backed up by the single grainy film...." What a total lie. My claims are based mostly on what the majority of witnesses stated they saw, what the C-130 transport reported seeing, by the obvious bits of AA livery on wreckage pieces, the DNA ID's of most passengers, the many firemen quoted in the book "Firefight." My advice is to get some remedial course on the basics of logical argument and research skills, or stop posting. But if you won't, I will. I refuse to discuss these things with someone who can't construct a cohesive statement, quote properly and in context, and make up a lie about the only evidence for flight 77 being a grainy photo. Enough is enough. Have a fine evening.
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  1896. If any more confirmation were needed that 9/11 truth is dead from the neck up, this thread would be it.
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  1897.  @minnesotagirl3393  It shows you haven't studied the subject enough, especially the history of high speed impacts.
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  1898.  @troycote4503  You don't know the facts. How can you say there were no plane parts when they showed pictures? A 7 or so ft section of UA 757, complete with window panes, was part of the Moussaoui trial. You must have been on vacation during the proceedings. No bodies you say? The same was true of PSA flight 1771. Show me a single body from the pics and videos. It was just confetti on a hillside. The same was true of Northwest flight 710: "The residue of flight 710 was something even the most veteran investigators had never come across before. There were no bodies." -from the book "The Electra story" This shows that you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are. People like me who have followed aviation safety for decades before 911 saw instantly the gross ignorance of people claiming to be crash experts. At the air safety forums I frequent, we instantly recognize the pitfalls of such people. They are all in the minority for a reason. They give us all a big laugh.
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  1899.  @troycote4503  "One simple question for you just to make sure what catagory you fall into. Do you believe Biden is working for the people of our country, or the Globalist Elites pushing AGENDA 2030? What Biden calls build back better?" I am open to any possibility if the evidence is there. For example, do you believe the 2020 election wast stolen, despite no valid proof ever having been provided? If you are going to cite Dinesh D'Souza's documentary, which has been decisively refuted, that tells me something about your standards of evidence.
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  1900.  @troycote4503  Kindly cite or link picture of bodys for flight 302. I can't find any.
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  1901.  @troycote4503  Thank you, and same respect to you. I would love to continue if you would like. But I have asked for acknowledgement from you that there have been other high speed, steep angle crashes that have resulted in "no bodies." I have named them by flight number. Let's leave aside flight 302 if you like. But PSA 1771 and Northwest 710 are absolutely documented cases. If you'd like to continue, can we agree on this fact?
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  1902. @alphabeta2515 Please let us know when you plan on finishing that sentence.
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  1903.  @ashleystrickland5761  "Evaporate" Yes, but I would shy away from using that term in these parts because so many truthers, at least to judge from the ones here, have little sense of how to use the English language, taking things ultra literally. In fact there were many things found, but in very small pieces. Terms like "evaporate" and "vaporize" are figures of speech, meaning they make their points through rhetorical exaggeration.
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  1904.  @JohnStedman-d4s  I have also read that some of the KLM occupants died of broken necks or backs. Is that really true?
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  1905. Nice one.
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  1906. There's no proof of that, though it's a comforting thought.
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  1907. Hey, they only make half the world's planes.
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  1908. Yes, total wishful thinking at this point. I wonder what all the skeptics will be thinking once sea level rise starts to encroach on all the coastal cities of the world.
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  1909.  @456swagger  Oh, they are positively the worst. No fatalities in 58 years. edit: Oops, make that 68 years. Even worse than I thought!
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  1910.  @stopcensorship7705  You win the Nobel prize for Straw Men. She never said it was based on genetics. You're just about the most unscientific poster on Youtube. That said, it wouldn't be as much fun without you.
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  1911.  RichLoves FNAF  You cannot control the attraction. That is what is meant.
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  1912.  @stopcensorship7705  "pity the verse you quote has no scientific evidence for homosexual attraction," And what you keep saying about gay gene has no scientific basis either. You don't have to have a single gene for gay attraction to have a partial biological basis. Just like leftyism, for which no single gene has been identified, but has found to be largely inherited. Then you talk about absentee fathers. Once again, not science. You have never even tried to reference the evidence, which says it all. You just love to provoke.
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  1913. Oh you can be 100% sure of that. They may possibly have sensed for a very brief second the initial impact with the trees, but the impact with the ground itself was at 482 mph. There is no way a human can register an impact as violent as this. This phenomenon was explained by an analysis of the Mt. Erebus DC-10 crash in 1979. "Similar to the infamous Armalite rifle, . . . which can kill by shock waves even when the bullet does not hit the victim.. . . . .the initial wave would be detected by the nerve bundles, but before their signals could travel at their leisurely 90 mph to report to the cortext, the shock wave would have shattered the intricate network of electro-chemical interconnections. . .in a fraction of time so small it is difficult to comprehend." This indeed is a technical description of the phrase "instant death." The mind has no time to register any of the incoming stimuli. This is all very morbid talk, but I mention it in the interest of providing whatever comfort it might to those who wonder.
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  1914.  @fayazkhan1729  Yes, nature has some mechanisms to dull pain, but only when it confers survival advantage. If you are strapped to a torture board, nature may not always be available to help you.
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  1915. And also the flaws of this case, including the inability of the jury to detect reasonable doubt, the heartless indifference of the felony murder rule, and the fact that this case was not just about the defendants' crimes; they were made into a symbol of the entire history of white southern racism in an atmosphere of racial hysteria, and also America's loss of patience with never ending racism such that even some racists agreed with the verdict. Under these conditions I was not shocked to see the amputation of nuance and due process. Guilty as these men are, their crimes IMHO do not live up to a life sentence. Just my thoughts.
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  1916. I would say, probably zero. We don't jail airline pilots for accidents. What's the difference?
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  1917. Not 1st degree murder, so no capital punishment.
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  1918. But in the broad scheme of things, very far down on list of contributory causes.
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  1919. As a pilot, I wonder how much you might agree with me that, as the final report hinted, the combination of back taxiing for an extended period of time, on an active runway, with no ground radar, with one pointing at the other, poised for take off, and with visibility making it impossible to even make out the taxiways clearly, is reducing the redundancy factor below that which a paying passenger has a right to expect? Especially as there was no rush to get Pan Am off the ground. As the Pan Am captain even stated, he had wished for the KLM to be airborne before proceeding. Thanks
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  1920. If one goes by due process, I don't think a hate crime can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But no one cares about due process any more, just their own emotions.
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  1921. You have no evidence it landed, safely or otherwise. So why make a baseless claim?
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  1922. Well, he was unable to not drop the metal objects. So why would anyone remain agnostic? What better test is there of what is torture?
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  1923. Don't believe the truther lies. The building was fully engulfed, proven by photos of the south facade, and numerous firefighter quotes which I'm happy to share. You have to ask, why do truthers omit the numerous firefighter quotes contradicting your claims? What are they afraid of? Honesty? Integrity? Fair and balanced arguments? "The building was fully involved in fire". -photographer Steve Spak. If you need assistance on how to use Google search, I'm happy to help.
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  1924. And we need more people to say he's a disgusting pig. Being Uganda's most celebrated mass murderer doesn't help much either.
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  1925. The naive are those who think we needed to explode a skyscraper to destroy some computer discs.
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  1926.  @Jaysonfear42069  No evidence of a shoot down. The only debris 8 miles away was light stuff, like insulation and paper, no part of the plane itself. The proof F93 crashed where it did is established by mounds of evidence, including: An impact crater perfectly consistent with a 757 40 degrees nose down; wreckage pics include 5-7 ft chunk of fuselage, the black boxes, engine core. State trooper finds part of engine in a catch basin, a dozen witnesses who saw the plane impact the ground, radar tapes tracking the plane, enough body parts to ID most passengers, the passenger phone calls. Additionally, hundreds of workers representing over 70 organizations involved in the recovery effort, photo of impact plume. FDR flight analysis published online. And now the evidence of a faked crash: zero
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  1927. Just as we know Trump created the completely fake BIG LIE of a stolen election. So please, don't trust a word he says. Harris is terribe. But Trump is a disgrace to humanity. Big difference.
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  1928. People who spam and shout are precisely what I expect from little minds.
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  1929. What was fake about it? Did they create a skit with actors just appearing to go to the White House?
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  1930.  @joshuabacon4564  Well even if true, it's no different than Trump's fake claim of widespread voter fraud. Maybe they should both join forces.
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  1931.  @joshuabacon4564  If you have a link proving this claim, let's see it please.
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  1932.  @joshuabacon4564  Why do I have a strange feeling you will not be delivering a proof any time soon.
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  1933.  @joshuabacon4564  Good. Now you have TWO proofs to dig up. Let's see if you can deliver the goods. Otherwise you are the fake news source.
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  1934.  @joshuabacon4564  OK, we've got it. You're another crackpot who doesn't understand the nature of evidence. You are promoting fake news, and you can't even provide a link. Not even a bad one it appears.
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  1935.  @joshuabacon4564  Time has already shown you don't know how to do proofs. No links, no evidence, just babbling away in ancient Hebrew or whatever it is you are chanting. If Trump answered with that, then any remaining holdouts would wave the white flag and admit he's truly deranged. I gather you have no ability to grasp how other people see you.
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  1936.  @joshuabacon4564  Yes, keep on babbling away. No one is listening.
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  1937. BS. The video was leaked by Bryon after all.
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  1938. Can someone please give the name of the gender zir refers to.
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  1939.  @Britneygurl  But zir is not a gender itself, anymore than she is a gender. She = woman. What does zir =?
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  1940. Why is it so important to you to distort the definition of homosexuality?
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  1941.  @stopcensorship7705  When did the GWAS identify the "single height gene?"
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  1942. Who said anything about the death penalty?
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  1943. I think the phrase "the death penalty is not a deterrent" is completely unjustified unless we compared a society with the death penalty as the primary punishment for murder with a society that had no punishment for murder. Which society do you speculate would have a higher murder rate?
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  1944.  @vpc5156  Thanks for your reply My main point is that compared to a society that had NO laws against murder, the death penalty would certainly deter on some level. That's why I get frustrated when I hear the claim it has NO deterrent capacity. I assume you probably have read Pinker's Better Angels book, which makes a persuasive case we are living at the safest point in humankind's history. But there is some controversy on that, as (I think his name is Brian Furgeson) has also made a persuasive case that the now standard view on hunter gatherer violence is that it may not have been as uniformly high as Pinker et all claim. Also, RJ Rummel, who coined the term "democide," and who is listed as a source in Pinker's book, gives a much higher estimate for 20th century deaths. If you plug that estimate in instead, you don't get the same conclusion as Pinker. Nit picking aside, I agree that despite the seeming increasing anarchic nature of the world, in the West at least, we are in one of the safest time/places ever. cheers
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  1945. There are now four full length books on this crash. Probably all are worth reading, and this one is a good read. I think "Destination Disaster" is the best of them, maybe the best air accident investigation book ever written.
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  1946. Better than a wacko who can never deliver the proof. Or do you just believe everything you hear?
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  1947. 29 years? That's almost as sickening as a thrill killing.
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  1948. That's ridiculous. Your operative principle seems to be that racism is a crime worse than death. This is what this trial has been about. Hatred of the moment bulldozing over far more basic principles of justice. Like crime fitting punishment? This was clearly a crime of manslaughter, not murder. You can only declare this malice murder by dispensing with the principle of reasonable doubt. The judge in essence thinks he's a mind reader, that Travis could not possibly have shot as a reflexive impulse of self-defense. That is hubris. These men were on trial not for their actual crimes, but for the entire history of white Southern racism. Under these conditions, hatred of the moment, and the crying screaming hysterical masses hijacked a fair trial. The judge could not rid himself of this pressure. Just my strong but HO. Remember how all the pundits had originally declared this a crime of reckless endangerment. Suddenly, overnight, that morphed into a crime worse than the holocaust, it seems. An interesting case for sociology.
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  1949.  @purplealiencookies7416  Thank goodness extremists like you have Youtube to vent. You probably believe in witchcraft too. You'd probably want her burned at the stake.
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  1950. I actually think Bryan should get even less than five years. The felony murder laws are controversial, and have been done away with in 3 states. I believe a case by case assessment is more in keeping with due process.
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  1951. Unlikely.
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  1952. and of Trump's brain.
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  1953. I'd say no one wins largely because Chomsky decided to pre-empt the discussion before it started.
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  1954. Who is that following a man for 5 minutes, while displaying their shotguns, reversing when he reverses? Being blocked by a 2nd vehicle. That's just perfectly OK, right?
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  1955.  ice fishing  Had they actually seen him go in there that morning you might have a case. But they did not. As Greg Travis said himself, they were following him "on a hunch." You don't subject people to a scary armed chase, waiving your guns, when you have no proof of any kind.
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  1956.  StopCensorship4---3  But he killed more innocents than both Idi Amin and Obote combined.
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  1957. But comparatively speaking, they are among the very best in the world.
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  1958. Absolutely. The present racial situation has descended into pure absurdism. There is no logic. There is no due process. There is no intelligence. Just pure rage coming from many angles. When one feels rage, anything goes.
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  1959. What would you do if you were homosexual?
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  1960.  @ridiculamsimia4385  Would you deny yourself even then pleasures of self sex? Or is that disgusting too?
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  1961. My feeling too. What is the point of making a distinction between manslaughter and murder if there's practically no distinction between the two punishments? Something is wrong there.
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  1962. They haven't deleted. Most of the comments above as of now (2:50p ET) support death sentence. While it matters what the parents think, and we have to respect that, it doesn't prove that all decent and fair minded people should agree with them. Where did the crazy idea originate that all decent people must be pro DP?
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  1963. What about lesbians. They are gay too. Are they disgusting too?
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  1964.  @kaifalivlogs6672  That's not what I asked you. Are lesbians also disgusting?
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  1965.  @مصعب-خ8ه  . Me cry? You're the one that's threatened by gays.
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  1966.  @truthdrifter  The idea that society will self destruct if we let gays alone? You have not even a sliver of evidence.
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  1967.  @stopcensorship7705  Homosexuality cause of fall of Rome: no hard proof.
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  1968. @@OnlyHomiesAllowed And by the same token we have a right to criticize the extremes of homophobia, such as supporting the death penalty for gays. Musevini has always been in love with death, witness the biggest mass murderer in Uganda's history.
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  1969. @@OnlyHomiesAllowed "Only for sodomy and especially anal sex." OK, let's say that type of s-x it's disgusting, unnatural, whatever you like. But you don't murder people for being disgusting, do you? This is a also a flagrant violation of the Golden Rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Notice how it would be impossible for gay sex in and of itself to violate the Golden Rule: By merely engaging in it, you aren't DOING anything to anyone else. Hence there's no equivalent of "doing that behavior" back to you. Executing gays for anal sex is simply violence. In that sense it's the equivalent of racism. If a great African leader finds white people "disgusting," does he have the right to execute them? I believe these views are more enlightened, as "enlightenment values" tend to encourage peace, civility and good will between people. And to thus place greater value on human life.
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  1970.  @moroccandeepweb5880  Incestual people? Why they are among the most disgusting, amoral and sickening people in existence, a health hazard: I almost vomit every time I see one. They are also conniving gossips and eat to excess. And their large nostrils are also in very bad taste.
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  1971.  @Omega-EP  I'm kind of with you on the school thing. But to depopulation, tell me, isn't 8 billion people enough?
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  1972.  @tiffaniejones5826  I'm sorry, you must be addressing a different poster.
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  1973. Another meaningless post.
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  1974. No privileges is fine. But jail is an indication of backwardness, nothing surprising in a dictatorship.
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  1975.  @christinawhite5992  OK, great. So would you be willing to giver her, the accused, as is part of our principles of basic justice, be willing to grant her the benefit of the doubt?
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  1976.  @christinawhite5992  If we go with a sense of good will, we should give Potter the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a genuine mistake.
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  1977.  @christinawhite5992  I don't know or claim to know what your current speculation is. I am stating only my belief. In a court of law, everyone deserves due process. That means the accused is always given the benefit of a reasonable doubt. As you stated, we are only speculating about her state of mind. Speculation is by definition in the category of reasonable doubt. Otherwise we would call it a fact. So by your and my agreement about our speculation, in a court of law, that dictates we don't charge her with a deliberate act. Doe that sound reasonable?
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  1978.  @christinawhite5992  Totally fine! I'm not deep into anything. I was hoping you might just answer with a simple "yes." Too much to ask I guess.
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  1979.  @christinawhite5992  Well if you are sincere, yes. I think in our society people are too quick to assume the worst of others. I'm glad we are in agreement. cheers
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  1980.  @christinawhite5992  I knew you weren't sincere from the get go. Your whole attitude has been one of bad sportsmanship. Someone who can't give someone the benefit of the doubt - that in itself is a lack of empathy. AND you stated this would be your last comment - 3 posts ago, which is another example of lack of sincerity. YOU can't keep your mouth shut - not me. Had you not made your last post, I would have shut up. But you had to put in that last word despite saying you wouldn't. It shows you have a bit of a hostility problem, just my opinion. OK, this time I really am done. Feel free to contradict yourself again with one final post. I expect nothing less from you. Have a fine day.
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  1981. Multiple choice quiz: Why was it necessary to blow up some grass in the middle of nowhere? 1) Because without some heroes, the War on Terror would have been impossible. 2) Because without dead grass the War on Terror would have been impossible. 3) Because without 40 additional dead people the War on Terror would have been impossible. 4) Because the idea is monumentally stupid.
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  1982. How can we possibly mind read though? We should assume the best of people's motives in the absence of contrary evidence.
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  1983. That's because you aren't very well informed.
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  1984.  @TheCriticalStinker-jw4fl  What was found doesn't = the total weight of the plane and passengers. For example, only 600 or so lbs of human remains were found, indicating the rest were so finely pulverized they could not be recognized.
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  1985.  @TheCriticalStinker-jw4fl  I was trying to figure out why you mentioned 19 tons. But now I get it!
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  1986.  @TheCriticalStinker-jw4fl  Why doubtful? Do you know me? I have probably posted more rebuttals of the no-planers than anyone else.
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  1987. Wrong forum.
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  1988. But his sentence was still outrageous.
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  1989. Unfortunately they are still building them, witness the 737max.
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  1990.  @DanknDerpyGamer  There have been a handful of other events where engines have detached due to design issues, the most well known being the El Al 747 crash at Amsterdam. But the specific failure modes were different, as I recall.
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  1991. Doesn't make sense. If it were shot down, the government would have taken the credit immediately. They were stung by the criticism they were incompetent that day. This is another delicious example of what makes 911 truth so incoherent. On the one hand the government wants to destroy buildings. But then it does an about face and wants a plane shot down. And THEN it doesn't want to admit they prevented an attack.
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  1992.  @BrainChild711  The engines were not shot out - one of them was dug out of the crater, so at most we have just one engine found at a distance. , the DFDR indicates no parameters consistent with shoot down, no one actually witnessed a shootdown. Now we can speculate there's some possibility of this, but nothing resembling a proof.
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  1993. That may be true, but Chomsky is the pissant when it comes to basic civility, and certainly no titan of good manners.
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  1994. It works both ways though. Respect means "minding your own business." If we apply that universally we get 1) The West should but out of trying to manage the world; and 2) Uganda should but out of trying to manage gays. Just let them alone. Anything less is a violation of the Golden Rule.
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  1995. Another person lacking basic empathy.
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  1996. Yes, I don't believe in a God who allegedly killed off all of humanity. Or who called for execution for working on the Sabbath. These are known as crimes against humanity. A God who constantly glorifies violence and suffering has no place in a decent world.
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  1997.  Lazy Man  You have no proof of God. But if there is such an entity, He/She/it is a mass murderer. Why create all those people if you know in advance you will kill them in a huge flood? This is known as crime against humanity.
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  1998. Try to do your homework a little better. He stated he ID'd most of the passengers based on DNA and teeth from100s of fragments of body parts, with the help of some of the countries top pathologists: "Confident that Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller, with whom he had worked on several previous cases but nothing on this scale, would ask for his help, he started packing the forensics van. When the call did come, he was ready. Dirkmaat and Miller were the first civilians allowed at the scene. There, they witnessed the crash crater where the larger pieces of the plane were buried in the dirt, widely scattered debris, and plumes of smoke radiating upward from burning trees. Dirkmaat spent two weeks at the scene, working both in the field and in the morgue. Remains of all the victims were ultimately identified, either through DNA, dental records, or fingerprints, and he’s proud that his work may have given the families some closure." I just found this link in less than 5 minutes. Where were you, brainwashing yourself with 911 Truth sites perhaps?
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  1999. Well she liked to cozy up to the Duvalier regime, praising it and receiving money from it. Hmm.
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  2000. No one has come close to providing a proof of a stolen election. What causes people to embrace fiction remains one of life's enduring mysteries.
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  2001. I think also of what many blacks get away with - Jesse Jackson, Al Sharrpton, doe not cause the same revulsion as Deen is now. Perhaps that's because times have changed even more since the late 80s. But to this day, Jesse Jackson has not been publicly disgraced in this way, and Al Sharpton's pattern of inflammatory remarks and intolerance earned him his own TV show on MSNBC. Does this make any sense?
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  2002. You are espousing a lower order opinion. Even Jane Goodall weighed in on this. She, the prosecutor and indeed all realistic parents the world over know that parental imperfection is impossible. What causes you to make such a glaring error of judgement?
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  2003. Inside your imagination
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  2004. I agree. The only part not fully fleshed out is how the locking pins came to be misrigged. The evidence is not far from conclusive it was Turkish Airlines who, just a few months before the crash, decided to perform questionable maintenance. They extinguished a cargo door warning light and set the locking pins the wrong way. This is the reason why the plane did not crash until early 1974. Up until then, the resistance provided by the vent door handle, which everyone was taught about, acted as a warning of an unsafe door. But once the locking pins were misadjusted, even that minimal resistance declined to an estimated 13 lbs. As the authors of Destination Disaster wrote, once this change was made, "a sickly child" could have defeated he safety system.
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  2005.  @JohnStedman-d4s  To which I would add, the Spanish report itself remarked that the Pan Am error was "not very relevant" no doubt for the reason you give.
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  2006.  @oofgottarunn  So if she were, say, just one month younger, would that make it rape? If not, tell us the objective formula for age difference that separates the OK from the criminal.
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  2007. And so is Mohammed: biased in favor of bad manners and super cheap shots.
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  2008.  @mgmurray100  Wrong, This is one of the truth movement's Big L-i-es. Why is everyone always saying this?
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  2009.  @gjustg1540  This the problem I find with the truth movement, at least to judge from Youtube. I am not saying you personally, but in general, they seem not to understand the nature of evidence, and do not incorporate counter evidence into their claims. The largest study I know of cell phone use on commercial aircraft was done in 2003, which monitored 37 flights up and down the East Coast. It found cell calls connections were detected at all phases of flight. Why do truth sites only mention the Ontario study? That's not a scholarly approach to evidence. Are you willing to incorporate this evidence into your assessment of the evidence; or at least show an interest in reading more about this study? Or are you content on skipping away happily without the lightest interest? Just saying.
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  2010.  @thebipolarbear1  Only one did that, so let's not exaggerate. What's much more bizarre are the claims of the deniers and truthers. They would have us believe the War on Te-ror depended on utterly useless phone calls, and targeting blades of grass in the middle of nowhere. I bet those kinds of oddities never even cross your mind.
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  2011.  @gjustg1540  "because cell phone masts don't broadcast upwards, that's why" I thought I replied to you, but now it's disappeared. That's the trouble with theorizing. Reality has a way of rendering theories useless. The largest study on cell phone use, conducted very conveniently in 2003, used sophisticated equipment to monitor cell phone use on 37 commercial flights up and down the East Coast. It confirmed cell phone connections at the cruise phase on nearly half the flights. You can call telecom experts too. As it turns out, you were more likely to get through back then, as most cell phones were analog, an had a greater range.
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  2012.  @gjustg1540  Just as you do not want to confront the uncomfortable evidence cell calls were possible up there back then. You skipped happily away, just as I predicted you would.
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  2013. Playing crash expert won't help you unless you're very good at it, which you are not. Ethiopian flight 302 also disappeared into its crater, as pre-excavation photos show. There's one in the accident report itself showing the CEO of the airline standing in the crater a few hours later. Mick West has side by side comparison photos on his site. Or we have the case of Northwest flight 710. The entire fuselage disappeared into the earth. That's the problem with Youtube. Self-styled experts pop up all the time, with no real mechanism for filtering out the men from the boys. Go for it. Continue to be ignorant about the histories of high speed crashes; continue to ignore huge studies that contradict your cherished beliefs.
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  2014.  @gjustg1540  I told you to go to the flight 302 pre-excavtion photos, which show no such debris. Did you have a look? They are posted at Mick West's site, whose name I cannot post courtesy Youtube anti-customer service. Please have a look and report back.Thanks.
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  2015. If you are interested in the truth, then you will go to the site I mentioned above. As Mick West remarked, "With the tragedy of Flight 302, with its similar crater and lack of visible debris, the truthers are again forced to decide if they are going to give up a precious piece of evidence, or if they are now going to become Ethiopian 302 Truthers." But I don't think you are interested to judge from your lack of curiosity on this and the cell phones study. Better to ignore counter evidence, or dismiss it away.
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  2016.  @gjustg1540  Still waiting for that proof cell phone calls from aloft were impossible in 2001. Your claim: cell phones cannot work (at altitude) "because cell phone masts don't broadcast upwards," I assume you know the difference between an unsupported claim and a proof.
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  2017.  @gjustg1540  You are not seeking truth. If you were, you would take all the evidence seriously. I gave it to you already: the largest study on cell phone use in commercial planes ever done. I spoke with its lead author, Bill Strauss. You never even expressed an ounce of curiosity. We have Telecom experts who have publicly stated it was posible. Also, in 2001 the phones had a greater range as they were analog. I also read about the Ontario study. This is called covering all your bases. A real truth seeker would not so casually and confidently da-n and dismiss counter evidence without even reading it. Like most people, you only cite evidence on your side. Your evidence is just your own unsupported claim, and your own personal anecdote regarding a limited number of flights you were on. It also shows you don't understand the nature of evidence.
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  2018.  @gjustg1540  The other point that you cannot grasp is the "why." It is inexplicable why a conspiratorial government would wish to have a plane crash into an empty field rather than a building with people in them. This absurdity is staring you in the face, and even then you cannot see it.
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  2019.  @gjustg1540  "so you keep hopping to a new one" That's because I won the cell phone debate. So I thought you'd might do better with your pet plot without a motive. But you have failed that too on multiple occasions. But I'll give you another chance. Flight 93 was necessary because 1) Targeting blades of grass in the middle of nowhere is more effective than targeting people. 2) The war on ter-or could not be won without the deaths of 40 additional victims 3) The question has no intelligent answer. 4) all of the above
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  2020.  @gjustg1540  Let's demonstrate why you do not understand the nature of evidence. My evidence: -The following telecom experts on public record: Rick Kempor of CTIA Paul Guckian of Qualcom; Alex Graf, AT&T All agreed the calls were indeed possible -The cell phone study from 2003 which covered far more flights then your small personal sampling. And done back in 2003 when most phones were analog, and over rural areas on 9/11. -I spoke by phone to the study's lead author. That's a 4th telecom expert, whose name is Bill Strauss And now your evidence: A small sample of calls made only by you. So who are you fooling? " made a statement based on your beliefs and nothing more" Sounds more like you than me: I have four outside independent sources identified by name. You have zero. And you have shown no interest in looking at this study, or calling Telecom experts as I have. You are just an anonymous nobody with no name and no sources. Do you think readers are that stu-id?
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  2021.  @gjustg1540  And you still can't explain why it's preferable to "crash" a plane into rural dirt rather than people. None of the skeptics can answer this because IT MAKES NO SENSE. The first false flag in history targeting useless blades of grass. Go for it, Big Guy.
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  2022.  @earlthepearl6414  "In 2001 cell phones were not capable of making calls at that altitude." I've already disproved you above by quoting 4 different telecom experts, and citing the largest cell phone study ever, in 2003, which documented cell call use at all phases of flight. Tell me, what is it that causes you and others to make claims without citing so much as an iota of evidence? Do you know more than telecom experts? Are you going exclusively by the Ontario study? In which case, you do not understand the nature of evidence. Or do not know how to do a Google search. Go around arrogantly acting like a know it all. That is what Youtube is all about, right?
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  2023.  @earlthepearl6414  "Nobody can explain all the "whys" and "whos". We must stick to the things we can answer." For flight 93 that includes: -40 passengers IDd through the collection of over a 1000 lbs or remains -radar tapes tracked it to Shanksville -black boxes recovered, contents published on line -hijackers make reservations under own name -UA confirms it's their plane -passenger calls -I2 witnesses who saw the impact as it happened -trooper finds part of engine in catch basin -most of the wreckage buried under impact crater -photo of impact plume -7 ft section of fuselage photo -picture of 2nd engine core as it is dug from crater And now the evidence of a faked crash -zero
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  2024. I think that's an understandable reaction. But one error I think many people make is the assumption every predator knows that what he does can cause a ruined life. I have many friends who seem to not get it either. That says to me we aren't born knowing this fact. You have to learn about it by delving into the subject. This is no excuse for what they do. But I think punishment has to take some consideration of intent, just like we do with drunk drivers.
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  2025. That's just ill-informed. Manslaughter does not equate to deadly mistake. Examples abound, including medical malpractice, airline pilots for example. Manslaughter depends on the degree of negligence.
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  2026.  @laurasanchez7105  I hate to break it to you, that timeline is flat out wrong. The video of him that afternoon in the construction zone was neither seen by nor reported to the McMichaels before they began chasing him. Exclamation point! Therefore their chase was illegal. In their lawyer's own words, they sought a citizens arrest merely on a "hunch." That's a direct unequivocal quote. They saw him run by, said to themselves, "well he looks like he could be that man we saw in the past." You cannot start a potentially dangerous chase, with guns displayed, on a hunch. No no no. Absolutely not. The law was very specific here: the arrest was only permitted "in the arrestor’s presence or within his or her immediate knowledge." There was neither presence nor immediate knowledge. Now despite my high level of confidence, if I have somehow not got the facts correct, kindly correct me and I will put my tail between my legs and retract this claim. cheers
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  2027.  @laurasanchez7105  PS these arrests are only for serious felony offenses. Merely seeing a black man on a property, without any knowledge of who he is or if he has legitimate grounds for being there, and speculatively concluding he's a criminal, is not only a ridiculous ground for a citizen's arrest, it's pure racism.
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  2028.  @laurasanchez7105  You're right about Arbery. It was stupid to grab the gun. But I cut him slack because as his mother has stated, he suffered from mental illness. Yet another reason it's unwise to allow private citizens to go on armed chases. Travis did see him trespass before, but it's pretty doubtful citizen's arrest law at the time was justified. A citizens arrest was only allowed: " if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion." -no crime was committed in the father/son's presence on this particular day. -no crime was committed within their immediate knowledge. -doubtful a trespass without theft or vandalism would be a felony -even if the trespass was a felony, there's no attempted escape involved I believe the McMichels are victims of the mob mentality. They are being used as examples based on public outrage, and that has led to an almost hysterical overreaction. But they still acted unwisely and illegally, so to me some type of manslaughter-type charge is still appropriate. We cannot allow private citizens to chase people on the basis of a hunch. It's a recipe for more deaths and shootings. The goal of law enforcement is to de-escalate. Citizen's arrests are more likely to escalate things and put the public at greater risk. Had we left it to marked uniformed police, the death would have been far less likely.
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  2029. Respect gay's values. Otherwise it's selective respect.
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  2030. What power lines. Please identify them.
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  2031.  @johnzarollin2749  "real plane crashes burn with black smoke"  Like this one? https://www.google.com/search?q=virginia+f-15+crash&num=50&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwid9J3jsuTeAhXQT98KHUfSDswQ_AUIDygC&biw=1538&bih=833#imgrc=MqF2BoBC54sibM:
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  2032.  @johnzarollin2749  Well I think you haven't researched this very carefully. Let's start with "no tissue." Not sure where you got that from as the county corner, Wally Miller, said they recovered some 650 pounds of human remains. This is what enabled him and his team to match DNA samples provided by relatives of the 40 non-hijack victims. Whether this is fact or not, why weren't you able to find these claims?
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  2033.  @Sdecharnage  "Is there any evidence that a plane crashed there ? " Hmm, let's see here: over a dozen witnesses describe the final seconds of the plane; wreckage pieces photographed; black boxes found, FDR report published online; radar tapes show the plane's route; passenger phone calls; United IDs the plane as theirs; hijackers purchase tickets under their own names; something like 75 organizations and hundreds of individuals involved in recovery effort, none mentioned anything suspicious (to my knowledge.); crater fconsistent with 40 degrees nose down 757; and as mentioned the county coroner positively ID'd 40 pax though DNA matched to tissue samples, a process which also involved the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology and some of the country's leading pathologists such as Paul Sledzik. I withhold judgement for now on the question of whether the above claims are true. The real question for me is, how can you and other alleged truth tellers, miss all this well documented information? Not even mention it (except for the alleged fake phone calls)? This is simply another day in the life of 9/11 truth claim. Are you only consulting dedicated truth sites? cheers
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  2034.  @Sdecharnage  If you did the research, which is very simple since it's been researched to death already, and primarily by truthers, you would know the existing scar doesn't match. The wing imprint is not at the same angle. So far this "truth hurts" isn't hurting very much. Maybe if you lived up to your monikers sake you might have something more credible.
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  2035.  @johnzarollin2749  -"mismatched upside down engine" If you can demonstrate the mismatch, please do so. -"There would be luggage, seats, miles of wiring, tail section,...." Two points: if the impact is severe enough even the tail would be missing, witness PSA flight 1771. The other debris could well have been dug out of crater. You are conflating lack of pictures with lack of debris. -"most all of the bodies" This reflects lack of familiarity with high speed impacts. Here is a passage from "The Electra Story": "The residue of flight 710 was something even the most veteran investigators had never come across before. There were no bodies." -"Planes do not vaporize." It's a figure of speech. The official story is 90+% of plane buried in crater. Another obvious example of what high speed impacts can do is staring us right in the face. Last year's 737Max crash in Ethiopia was remarkably similar. If you look at the pre-recovery photos, there is no visible plane.The official interim report notes that "Most of the wreckage was found buried in the ground..." Just like F93, and the aforementioned Northwest flight 710. TWA 800 may or may not have been shot down, though from my perspective it's a thousand times more plausible than the idea of the US government targeting an empty field of grass in the middle of nowhere - a startlingly stupid hypothesis to any reasonable person using their brain. But the key difference is the cause of F93's demise was obvious - most of us figured it out before it even happened. Thus there was no need to reassemble it. If you guys can at least get the basic facts right, there's a chance for a reasonable discussion.
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  2036.  @Sdecharnage  There's no need to pay anyone to disinform. You guys do fine job all by yourselves. Do keep up the good work. I could hardly match your skills of making the truth mvt look like the twisted wreck that it has become.
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  2037.  @Sdecharnage  We can test who's more in touch with reality. Your operative theory, I suppose, is that the US government decided it could not have a War on Terror without targeting an empty field in the middle of f---king nowhere. Brilliant!! Three destryoed skyscrapers and nearly 3,000 deaths weren't enough? This would be the first alleged government conspiracy targeting blades of grass. If that's your notion of reality, that's very sad. Like I said, you are your own worst enemy. Serious people read this stuff and it reconfirms the truth brigade is absolutely nuts. Serious truther sites by and large reject your nonsense. What does that tell you?
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  2038.  @Sdecharnage  You want a crater? Like I said look up Ethiopian flight 302. But you couldn't be bothered with inconvenient details like that. Did I get that right?
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  2039.  @Sdecharnage  Ethiopian flight 302report: "Most of the wreckage was found buried in the ground." Inside the CRATER it formed. So are you also in favor of the Ethiopian 737Max false flag?
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  2040.  @Sdecharnage  I have to say you guys are so much fun. Comic relief, though by no means at its finest.
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  2041.  @Sdecharnage  "Ethiopian 302 shopworn plane parts scattered everywhere" You aren't looking at the pre-excavation photos. Nice try.
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  2042.  @Sdecharnage  Wrong again, flight 93 UNLIKE F302, resulted in the cockpit , and engine and other parts exploding into the trees. In the pre-excavation photo of F302, there is no such wreckage visible.
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  2043.  @Sdecharnage  Flight 302: Here's the photo that's relevant. https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/10/africa/ethiopian-airlines-crash-victims/index.html Now stop being a slipshod researcher and do you homework, the way a real truther is supposed to.
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  2044.  @Sdecharnage  Also we have a third example: Northwest flight 710: "The airliner's fuselage emerged from the black cloud minus its entire right wing and with only a large stub of the left wing still attached. For a few seconds it continued in level flight ... and then it began an almost vertical plunge to earth, trailing smoke and fire like a spent rocket. It struck a field at 618 MPH. Mud, dirt, grass, shrubs and mottled snow were tossed 250 ft into the air. The debris fell back around a muddy crater forty feet wide. From this gaping wound in the earth poured smouldering smoke. There were pieces of wreckage around the perfectly formed rim. Some other metal fragments were hurled fifteen hundred feet away. But the one hundred foot fuselage itself had disappeared entirely. . . . The residue of flight 710 was something even the most veteran investigators had never come across before. There were no bodies." Yet another confirmation that defies personal intuition. It illustrates very neatly that we cannot always trust our personal pontifications. Reality is often smarter than we are. Once you absorb this insight, you are one step closer to freeing yourself from the dogma of personal superiority. Humility is what you lack.
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  2045.  @johnzarollin2749  "I do not see any correlation to anything discussed here??" Couldn't have said it better myself.
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  2046.  @johnzarollin2749  Again, this just confirms to me you aren't making the effort to be in command of the facts, or do credible research. It doesn't really take much effort to do this. - "and upside down" What is the significance? In a violent crash with this much kinetic energy, is there some law of phsyics that dictates whether an engine will be found right side up or upside down? -"So you're trying to tell us the plane debris was left in the ground?" Are you being serious? The official story, whether true or not, is that they excavated everything out of the crater. You are asking ridiculous questions so far. -"650 lbs of tissue was recovered which means absolute DNA matches were made identifying who was who and where they were at the instant of the "crash"? please continue." Yes, sure. Please look at, say AA flight 4184, a crash in Illinois back in 1994. The same DNA techniques were used. So why are you making a big deal out of commonplace forensic tools?
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  2047.  @johnzarollin2749  cont'd -"No figure of speech cheech!" Misses the point since the official version of flight 93 is that they excavated all the wreckage. Are you claiming the NTSB excavated vapors? -"Where did the NTSB rebuild and reassemble all the recovered debris?" Already dealt with that. It's pure myth that every wreck is reconstructed. Reconstruction is a useful tool when the exact cause of a crash is not immediately know. For examples, TWA 800, the early Comet crashes, Valujet, Swissair 111, and so on. You do not reconstruct crashes where the cause is known, witness PSA flight 182 in San Diego. Show me the reconstruction of that aircraft. Again, you fail at basic logic and critical thinking. -"How did the alleged air to ground cell phone calls happen years before the technology existed" Wrong again. I personally called a telecommunications expert to discuss this. You might find that simply picking up the phone is more revealing than getting all your info from dedicated truth sites. He explained that back in 2001, when most cell phones were analog, they had a greater range than the more recent digital ones. A large 2004 IEEE Spectrum study also found that cell calls were connected at all phases of flight. No offense or anything, but your latest post is a complete failure in every way. You don't know the facts, you make irrelevant points such as the engine was "recovered upside down," and you present modern and widely used DNA techniques as if they were a great mystery. What else can one say? -
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  2048.  @johnzarollin2749  Headline Forensics teams await Flight 261 victims "DNA evidence gives irrefutable proof of identification so that family members can claim their dead. The AFIP has been involved in the identification of victims from major plane crashes since 1994, as well as other deadly events such as the bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Kenya in 1998, and the 1993 fire that killed 81 people at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas . . . .Identifying bodies by DNA testing has become almost standard procedure in air crashes in recent years" There is no mystery here. F93 was solved just like these others. As usual, Youtube skeptics often create melodrama and confusion when there is nothing but mundane facts. Maybe they feel a need to do this from boredom perhaps? The same with the "impossible calls." As mentioned, a quick call to a telecommunications expert should settle the matter to your satisfaction: yes, the calls were unreliable and hit or miss, but hardly impossible. cheers
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  2049.  @johnzarollin2749  Sure thing. When we resort to name calling , that's a sure sign of intellectual failure, which explains why you call actual evidence "nit-picking" !!! It doesn't get much better than that. We can test your cell call hypothesis. Instead of feeding yourself a one-way diet of truthrism, PICK UP THE PHONE and call any telecom expert of your choice and ASK them if it was impossible. Then report back to us. It's clear this kind of truth seeking doesn't appeal to you. Just regurgitate what has been spoon fed to you is more comforting. 4th grade? Like, having no clue about modern DNA forensics? Or how about this one: the government knew that without targeting an empty field in the middle f---ing nowhere, adding a whopping 40 extra deaths, the War on Terror would have been impossible. There's your 4th grade logic.
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  2050.  @johnzarollin2749  Just watched your link. It's a classic demonstration of cherry picking. The link only mentions the Ontario study, widely quoted as proof of no cell calls. It leaves out the much larger 2004 study , which involved many passenger airliners up and down the east coast in the fall of 2003. As mentioned, they confirmed that pax frequently tried to use their calls on many of these flights, and their technology confirmed that many calls were connect at cruise altitude. The video ask us to provide evidence cell calls could have worked on 9/11. I just mentioned an obvious one. Just as the PM authors note, as any self-respecting investigator would do, speak to experts. By their own admission, they deliberately shun any expert input. You have not a SINGLE confirmation by any expert in this video confirming their views. And you uncritically accept this one-sided verdict. Call in nit-picking. But the devil is in the details, and separates the men from the boys.
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  2051.  @johnzarollin2749  This confirms yet again Ryan Mackey's observation that the truth mvt is by and large self-insular. It does not seek input from the worldwide scientific community, never publishes in peer reviewed venues, preferring self-publishing carefully shielded from outside scrutiny The very essence of science is to welcome open testing of one's hypotheses. The truth mvt, as the video you provide even boasts, thinks citing a single limited study in an urban area is superior than subjecting their views to expert input, or citing opposing studies. For a 4th grader perhaps, these concepts are alien.
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  2052.  @johnzarollin2749  As a certified aviation junkie I admit to watching all manner of flying videos. Here's one that's relevant to your video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwrgImucNsQ Listen to numerous pilots interacting with ATC in flight and note the absence of any major difference in background noise with Cee Cee Lyles' call. I also like to watch trip reports. Listen here, https://youtu.be/d3K2-4AvaOY?t=570 , as "Nonstop Dan" describes his just finished lunch aboard a BA 777. Do you hear a big difference in noise compared to the above? As you may have noticed, many phones (and tape recorders) are designed to have background noise minimized when a louder sharper sound is present. Then when the speaker stops talking, the background sounds often tend to become louder again. [edit] Go to about 10:30 in this video, as he is describing the lie flat seat, which demonstrates the background noise varying that I just mentioned. Here, when he is speaking, it's very similar to Lyles' call. Was it too a conspiracy?
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  2053.  @johnzarollin2749  "lost my patience with you" What's really happened is you've lost patience with reality. The patients it takes to get it right, to take the time to confirm claims with robust evidence, by reading all the studies, not just one of them. By asking experts. Anyone can watch a truth video and start blabbing away. That's easy. Much harder to have the patience to test your views against the counter evidence. This is one reason, IMHO, you have failed to get things right, at least in so far as concerns flight 93. Have a good evening.
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  2054.  @johnzarollin2749  That's true for most crashes. But if the velocity is high enough, you often get a different result. We can take for example Turkish Airlines flight 981, which impacted at a speed of over 480 mph. From the book, Destination Disaster: "Fire frequently consumes most of the remains of air crash victims. , but in this case the ferocity of impact precluded any such cremation. . . .as the tanks disintegrated, [the fuel] was transformed into a huge cloud of minute droplets which hovered for a fraction of a second before vanishing in a thunderous fireball. Trees (and here and there flesh) were scorched and blackened, but the flame was too transient to fire the forest still damp from winter" Flight 981 also produced a similar plume, as can be seen from a rare photo snapped seconds after impact.
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  2055.  @Sdecharnage  Some 20 years later you envision the government still hiring people to post stuff on a thread that maybe 3 people are viewing at this point. The absurdity escapes you. This is precisely why most people, including the more serious truther sites, reject you. Over and over these kinds of claims ensure that no one with a sense of reality will take you seriously. Every fresh post further marginalizes you, and sensible people recoil or simply laugh like me. I note also how you and John cannot acknowledge error. A refusal to pick up the damn phone and call the telecom experts. Why is this a "doubtful comment"? Is calling experts an alien notion to you? Do all experts work for the "deep state"? A refusal also to acknowledge that Ethiopian flight 302 was almost completely invisible pre-excavation, just like F93. If you guys can't even do or comprehend elementary truth-finding, or acknowledge the two other examples of buried planes I have fully documented, what is a reasonable person supposed to do? Give you a prize?
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  2056.  @Sdecharnage  Whatever works for you. This has been an incredibly worthless dialog. So I am bowing out. I've done everything to engage in a rational, evidence based discussion. Sometimes it just isn't possible. Your first reply to me summarizes the basic problem: "Is there any evidence that a plane crashed there ? If I remember well, the helicopter from either cnn or fox was on site first and the images didn’t show any plane but a hole with a smoke that later being justified as: THE WHOLE PLANE SINK INTO THE EARTH!!!! 20 feet down for the black box !!! Wtf! " But this is precisely what happened to Ethiopian Flight 302, as stated in the initial report and in the first photos before they started digging out the airplane parts. Now, if you really wanted to provide a high quality argument on flight 93, you would first acknowledge that your intuition was dead wrong. F93 is one of at least 3 cases of an airliner burying itself, and also leaving no bodies. A gave you the exact quote, for example concerning NW flight 710 "no bodies." But I have the strange feeling that after providing you with chapter and verse, you are still completely unable to acknowledge this fact. Am I correct?
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  2057.  @johnzarollin2749  "Human remains do NOT vaporize into oblivion." If you want to really be serious, let's do it. Tell me where I ever said human remains literally turn into vapors.
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  2058. ​ @johnzarollin2749  "No human DNA was recovered here" We've gone over this already. Why do you keep posting disinformation? Here are some snippets of many easily findable articles on line: "It would be nearly an hour before Miller came upon his first trace of a body part. . . . . .Finally, some fragment of each of the dead had been positively identified, either by DNA or, in a few cases, fingerprints." -Washington Post, May 12, 2002 "We found personal effects for everyone, and at least a little human remains for each person. Everything that was positively identified was returned to the families," he [Miller] said. -Tragedy of flight 93, Toledo Blade, Sep 11, 2011 "From there, they will be transferred to the Armed Forces Laboratory at Dover, Del., part of a process in which the FBI has mandated DNA matches as final confirmation." -Pittsburgh Post Gazette, Sep 22, 2001 "Yesterday's confirmation of victims' identities by the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology DNA lab in Rockville, Md., means that 34 of the 44 people who were aboard the jetliner crashed Sept. 11. have been identified." "Searchers recovered about 510 pounds of human remains at the crash scene. . . . .75 to 100 specialists, including pathologists and fingerprint experts, are involved in the attempt to identify the remains. Forensic anthropologist Dennis Dirkmaat says that because the remains have suffered 'extreme fragmentation,' most will need to be identified using DNA analysis." see http://162.243.41.32/context.jsp?item=a091301victimsidentified Question: if all the bodies vaporized, how were investigators able to ID the victims? If you think the above information is false, do what any respectable research would do. Provide compelling evidence, just the way I have done. Then we can have a discussion on the validity of these reports. cheers
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  2059.  @johnzarollin2749  Interesting to me I try to have an actual back and forth conversation. But whenever I refute your claims, there is usually a long silence from you of several weeks to months. What are you afraid of? I have given you ample evidence they ID'd all the passengers. Why can't you acknowledge reality? Is it that painful for you?
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  2060.  @johnzarollin2749  Oh great it's always nice to have the last word. I'll just point out once again that you never respond to my points or admit to error. If you were really interested in being serious, you would do what I did: provide actual evidence to support your claim. Where is the evidence that my links are gibberish? You have cited NOTHING. ZERO. Show me the proof of heavy equipment at the scene. You never post any substance. Saying stupid and gibberish is just more blabbing away once again. Any idiot can do that. But to have a serious conversation, where we go through the evidence piece by piece, that takes real mental effort. That is what this conversation has been about. Someone who has researched virtually every claim about 93 vs someone who doesn't understand the nature of evidence and how to have an informed dialog. That is the overwhelming take away from this thread by any thoughtful person.
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  2061.  @johnzarollin2749  OK, fair enough. Start with lack of video. I don't know the reason, but I can speculate. It was pretty easy to figure out who the hijackers were because they used their own names. There was much other evidence, for example Atta's DNA was found at the WTC site. So unless you start with the bias there was no real Middle east connection to 9/11, it would not follow there would be an urgent need to release every last photo or video or whatever. Maybe that bias is justified, but that's the very thing up for discussion. A lack of video doesn't prove very much by itself. Here's another analogy. The last time prior to 9/11 that a passenger tried to destroy a US airliner was in 1987 by a man named David Burke. They were able fairly quickly to figure out it was him. Why the need to then release further video? The flight in question was PSA F1771. Try to find videos of him boarding the plane. Does the lack of video prove this flight too must have been a false flag?
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  2062.  @johnzarollin2749  I've gone over the cell phone claim a few times already. The burden of proof rests with you. You are stating as fact the calls were not possible. I already challenged you to provide a proof. Show us please.
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  2063.  @johnzarollin2749  One last thing. You are calling me stupid. OK, let's do some critical thinking rather than stupid thinking. Do you really and truly believe that an alleged elaborate plot by the US government would be based on a technology known not to exist? That they would be this stupid?
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  2064.  @johnzarollin2749  OK, next up: Impossible phone calls: the evidence I’ve already gone there but you ignored it. So let's try again. The primary case that cell calls at altitude were impossible in 2001 seems to come from a study done by AK Dewdney. He found that he was unable to get a connection above 8,000 ft. But there exists a ton of other evidence contradicting this. So the first question I would ask is, have you made an attempt to look for other evidence? Since debunking sites are easily accessible, it doesn’t require a great deal of time to find them. As mentioned earlier, I spoke to a telecom expert who told me that back in 2001, when most phones had analog back-up capability, the effective range was much greater than today’s cell phones, and in his opinion, it was far from impossible to get a connection from high up. I cannot offer you a proof of his words, but as I said, you can always do what I did and ask a telecom person, and see what they tell you. Pretty simple. There are many other grounds to question your claim. Here are a bunch: -The Dewdney calls were limited to one metropolitan area, not in rural areas where F93 was. Since there tend to be fewer base stations in low population areas, they tend to have a much greater power output, and thus a greater range. So cell calls limited to urban areas don’t provide a definitive answer to flight 93, which operated over rural areas. -The IEEE Spetrum study was far larger than Dewdney’s. It involved multiple jetliners flying up and down the east coast of the US in the fall of 2003. It confirmed that on almost every flight some passengers were trying to use there cell phones, and calls were connected at all phases of flight. I also was curious about this. I called the lead author whose last name is Strauss, if memory serves, and he had no problem with the idea that on 9/11 it would have been possible to be connected at altitude and last long enough for a conversation to take place. You are also welcome to call him. -"I would say that at the altitude for commercial airliners, around 30,000 or 35,000 feet, [some] phones would still get a signal . . .at some point above that-I would estimate in the 50,000-foot range-you would lose the signal." –Paul Guckian, vice president engineering at Qualcomm. (Quoted in Popular Mechanics book.) -“Marco Thompson, president of the San Diego Telecom Council: ‘Cell phones are not designed to work on a plane. Although they do.’ -“Some older phones, which have stronger transmitters and operate on analog networks, can be used at a maximum altitude of 10 miles, while phones on newer digital systems can work at altitudes of 5 to 6 miles.” -NY Times -Alex Graf of AT&T wrote that “from high altitudes, the call quality is not very good, and most callers will experience drops.” (911myths site) Translation: not all calls are impossible or there would be no need to make these qualifications. -While not exactly reliable, cell-phone calls from airplanes were possible in 2001-even from extremely high altitudes. Because cell sites have a range of several miles, even at 35,000 feet, that's entirely possible," says Rick Kemper, director of technology and security at the CTIA-The Wireless Association. -911myths site. I am curious if you might be willing to admit the picture is not as black and white as you and many fellow skeptics believe. Or will you continue to just dismiss all the evidence you don't like?
    1
  2065. Great point.
    1
  2066. Respect Human values. If you want the West to mind its own business, then why don't you mind yours too? Stop minding the business of gays. In my country "Bedroom management" is the stuff of snoops. Get a life.
    1
  2067.  @julia2k8  "lol who's the one who made sexuality their whole identity?" Why don't you tell me who that is. I'd like to know. What have I shoved down your throat? Where?
    1
  2068.  @julia2k8  Seriously, can't people behave themselves on Youtube? BTW sexual orientation isn't an ideology. We are most likely born with it, and most people have little control over what attracts them.
    1
  2069.  @julia2k8  You aren't making sense. Youtube cannot force anything on anyone. It's a discussion forum open to anyone. Since when is having an opinion equal to force? This is neither your nor my forum. You and I can say what we want.
    1
  2070. If this has happened so many times, what does that tell us about the failure of zoos?
    1
  2071.  @stacyliddell5038  Well that's a bad opinion in my opinion. Parents aren't perfect. Have you ever had kids?
    1
  2072.  @stacyliddell5038  Well here's my reasoning. Especially if you have been a parent, you would know how even the most careful parents have had plenty of incidents where their kids slip away in an instant. As the prosecutor of the case stated:
    1
  2073.  @stacyliddell5038  As the prosecutor of the case stated: "I've never seen the attention given to a family-endangering case as this," Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters said. "If you don't believe a 3-year-old can scamper away that quickly, you've never had kids. They do just that."    Jane Goodall, the primate expert also weighed in and said much the same. I'm with the prosecutor and common sense on this one. It's a sign of unrealistic thinking to ascribe the level of parental perfection you are assuming exists.  By contrast, any responsible zoo has the luxury of time and forethought to identify child hazards. I'm not saying for sure if I blame the zoo, but zoos are child oriented businesses. Thusn they have job to identify in advance hazards like this. That's very different than the unrealistic assumption of perfect parents. So your view on this contradicts basic logic: you cannot take a single instance of a parent's mistake and generalize from it. So your opinion is mathematically unsound. IMO
    1
  2074.  tinbasher  They were both looking for trouble.
    1
  2075.  @JohnWalker-z3m  If there were a real God, there would have been no shooting.
    1
  2076. Don't think the blame lies with them.
    1
  2077. Basset ctd - This shows there were weak points in the NTSB's investigation. Does it mean it was designed to cover-up missile evidence? Possibly. Or was it merely a way to get all the missile people to shut up because by that time (Spring 1997 as i recall) they had honestly come to the conclusion there was no missile and this was just distracting away from what they felt to be the real cause? I'm just speculating. The main point I'm making is that none of this adds up to proof.
    1
  2078. They did get the airplane parts out at Shanksville. They just didn't give us a pictorial record of it. Flight 93 is the crowning failure of 911 Truth. They would have us believe that 44 extra deaths in the middle of nowhere was essential for the War on T, and Ira-, and so on. What a mentally disordered joke. Or even more absurd, we "needed some heroes." To the contrary, the goal of T is to scare everyone completely to death, not create optimism. If you want the best example of an airplane swallowed whole, look at Ethiopian flight 302 PRE_EXCAVATION photos. cheers, and go shopping for a new brain.
    1
  2079.  @susanellis1828  You think this was all fake, or not really ra-pe?
    1
  2080. You can't. But honestly, even though their behavior is far less violent, women as a whole are not always much better. The book "Woman's Inhumanity to Woman" by Phyllis Chesler, is an eye opener. She tears apart the myth of universal sisterhood. From the blurbs: "The women who hate me cut me as men can’t."
    1
  2081. Publish your evidence in a science journal. Apparently the folks in the truth movement are too scared to do so.
    1
  2082. Indeed Bartelski's chapter is well worth the read. But if I were to make a mild criticism of both Bartelski and Mentour Pilot, it's that neither one really directly states that Van Zanten's mistake, however we perceive it, was, at least within the system, the only truly major lapse of the day. To say this in no way invalidates their other points, but I think it's especially important to be very frank about this, or else it invites the accusation of bias, especially so in the case of Bartelski.
    1
  2083.  @Kimberlaina  Thanks for your reply. Can you say more about the person with whom you spoke? It's hard to get much personal info on Van Zanten.
    1
  2084. Huh! He lead a violent mob to overthrow democracy. Yeah, I feel real safe now.
    1
  2085. And what's with this attraction to elderly strangers?
    1
  2086.  @yampy1353  "Arbery didn't sprint forward to anyone. Arbery was hitted with the first shot, before he touched the barrel" I would disagree. It's clear from the video that an instant before the first shot, we see Arbery turning left to confront Travis. Maybe not a sprint per se, but more than enough to see he's not just continuing straight ahead. Further, I distinctly remember a forensic expert at the trial saying it was absolutely possible Arbery could well have grabbed the gun right before the 1st shot. So, if the first shot was a reflex reaction to someone attacking you, that would be different than malice murder: say, 2nd degree murder or the equivalent of manslaughter (which I know is not on the books in Georgia) That to me is a significant flaw in the trial: pretending we could read Travis's state of mind at that exact moment beyond a reasonable doubt. Therefore my vote was for the less serious murder charge, so a sentence of 10-20 years. As for Bryan, he was a victim of the cruel brutality of the felony murder rule. Five years at most for him. Of course it's hard to summon any sympathy for racist pigs. But even racist pigs deserve due process, which I really don't think they got here.
    1
  2087.  @yampy1353  "Had the jury had any reasonable doubt, all three would have been acquitted on all charges." But they should have. There is reasonable doubt about malice murder versus a lessor degree of murder. Can you rule out: Arbery gabbing gun; followed by Travis instinctively shooting him out of fear for his life? Even if he didn't grabbed the gun, it wouldn't alter the dynamics that much as this was all happening much too quickly for anything other than an instant reaction.
    1
  2088.  @yampy1353  Thank you for your comment. I just reviewed the Georgia law. One thing that makes this case interesting is the potential grey area of the Georgia law. IM non-expert O, "Without provocation" is not absolutely clear cut in this case. From Arbery's perspective, it would be 100% wrong to accuse him of provocation, given the big picture. HE is clearly the victim. But from Travis' perspective, he's just been accosted and potentially attacked. Under normal circumstances this would be considered provocation. So as I see it, the "malice murder" verdict therefore depends on the context, not just the shooting itself. I am big on reasonable doubt. so if there's a grey area I give that benefit to the accused. I don't see that malice is 100% proven when trying to read Travis' mind when he pulled the trigger, or even if he intended to kill. THAT is also part of the big picture context. That's my case, but I am open to changing my mind if that grey area is resolved in a convincing way. Some might analogize this case to a bank robbery gone wrong. That's a very good argument, but IMO that too doesn't quite capture the spirit of this case.
    1
  2089. @@chrislauricella Curious. Don't both you and yampy agree that the Ms acted badly? So why the sudden flare up? :)
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  2090. @@chrislauricella I guess I would agree with you in part. Arbery may have had a perfect right to disarm Travis, but I also agree not a wise move, at least for a person wishing to save his own life. But as I stated above, when in terror or possibly under mental impairment, maybe we can't hold that against him.
    1
  2091. Even the death toll of 346 was the same.
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  2092. One final thing if I might, awc222. I have nothing against you personally, or against people making their case for F93. All I ask of people is that they do so in a friendly way, and with respect for others. I urge you to consider this form of communication with your fellow posters instead of the insulting antagonistic nature of so many of your posts. It won't kill you. And it will make your case look more impressive. Just a thought.
    1
  2093. OK it's nit-picky, but it has to said, how hard is it to find correct footage? Similarly they show a narrowbody interior for an A-350. I agree it's kind of irritating for aviation buffs.
    1
  2094. Why are you and so many others comforted by the complete absence of evidence? Don't you realize this is the textbook definition of stupidity?
    1
  2095.  @ieatliberals1992  Here is the "evidence" of a rigged election: 1 Trump trying to prep the population beforehand, which led the gullible to believe his message when the results started to change in favor of Biden 2 This is easily explained by the blindingly obvious fact that the mail-ins were counted last, and were very democrat-heavy. 3- Pillowman's gibberish sprawl of indecipherable numbers, assisted by his cyber expert - you know, the one with a paper bag over his head. Is this your idea of a proof?
    1
  2096. Another possible death trap of a plane, though it's hard to know for sure.
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  2097. I can refute that in 2 seconds. Do you think that after 4 planes evaded air security, crashing into 3 buildings and killing hundreds, and seeing the sight of the twin towers, and the people jumping.....that the government would have sat idly by and done nothing? Seriously.
    1
  2098. Why not?
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  2099. Pure speculation. The obvious reality of racism doesn't make you or anyone else into a mind reader. If you think about it long and hard, there is no hard evidence of racism. It's pure belief supported by nothing else. When will people grow up and recognize the difference between the power of belief and actual evidence. The justice system is based on due process and reasonable doubt, not whatever impulses pop into our mind spontaneously.
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  2100.  @wendellknight2072  Again, you have ZERO proof. Reality routinely outsmarts our assumptions. Look at the very first high profile BLM case. BLM got it wrong and made a mistake, precisely because they too made an assumption based on belief and the undeniable pattern of police racism. But that doesn't mean every case fits the pattern. In a court of law, you would have had ZERO proof this was racism. YOU ARE NOT A MIND READER. Your insistence you can read minds is what we call HUBRIS.
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  2101. Problem is, the flight 93 no-plane theory is completely self-refuting by the fact that it doesn't make an iota of sense. The whole point of 911 was for the planes to HIT their targets, not crash into the middle of nowhere. Therefore, F93 only makes sense as a real terrorists attack gone wrong. No truther claim has been more bizarrely schizophrenic than this one.
    1
  2102. Ditto his cortex.
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  2103. Because when flying a safe airline, the odds of dying are 10s of millions to one per flight. Can you match that in your own vehicle?
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  2104. I guarantee you don't have a proof.
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  2105.  @tspan34  The problem is, you cannot prove to anyone but yourself that her body language = shoot down. There is no other evidence of a shoot down, either in the flight data recorder, the witnesses who saw it crash, and the absence of major crash debris anywhere else but within a thousand feet of the impact site.
    1
  2106.  @jannops  I love how Youtube works. Never any evidence presented.
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  2107.  @jannops  OK, that's fair. I think you're referring to Rumsfeld's comment "the people who attacked the United States . . .shot down the plane over Pennsylvania." It's claimed by CNN and others he misspoke, and that makes some sense if you consider the context: "the people," whom he surely meant to be the terrorists. Thus taken literally, he would be claiming the terrorists shot the plane down. That is clearly not what he meant. There was so much speculation, he momentarily forgot there was no shoot down. The same kind of mistake was made by a few people in regard to TWA 800. George Stephanopoulos referred to the shoot down, or bombing, of flight 800, because, I speculate, years later that's what people remember most about the coverage. I don't see any other major inconsistencies -we have the family members confirming the plans of the passengers. How likely is it they were all lying? Many say it was shot down, but there's a remarkable lack of evidence for that. The shoot down theory requires explaining where all the wreckage went, as all but about .001 percent of it was found within 1,000 ft of the main debris area. The FDR did not record any parameters consistent with a shoot down. No one saw a shoot down. I can also give you the names of 12 witnesses who state they saw an intact airliner crashing at Shanksville. I'm not claiming a proof one way or another, but I don't see a strong case for a shoot down. They also announced no shoot down before 2 o'clock on that day, a very risky thing to say if major wreckage were to be found later in more distant locations.
    1
  2108.  @jannops  The furthest debris field was actually 8 miles away, and was only paper and insulation, a phenomenon most likely the result of the debris/smoke plume, acting much like a thermal, pulling light debris into higher air, and carried by air currents. The same thing was observed for PSA flight 1771, and US Air 427, where insulation and paper landed at a golf course 2 miles away only moments after impact. A missile needs to account for more than a few pieces of paper and insulation.
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  2109. Let the men handle air crash investigations. The truther boys are still struggling with the alphabet.
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  2110. @@politelyvulgarvernacular You're also desperately seeking attention. That's OK. We all do it sometimes.
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  2111. @@politelyvulgarvernacular I just love people with 2nd rate senses of humor. They remind me of 2nd rate intellects.....i.e. truthers. An opportunity for me to shine. "Hate messages" Sometimes the truth hurts.
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  2112. I agree. These two analysts are not in my mind up to the task of reasonable assessment. They speculate out proportion to the evidence.
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  2113.  @gabrielmichael3701  I didn't watch every minute of her testimony but a big chunk of it. Maybe you can refresh my memory. To save me another 3 hour long review of this video, do you remember if she indicated any basic confusion about her overall training? I only heard she couldn't remember the smaller details about some things. Was she ignorant of basic training? Thank you.
    1
  2114.  @gabrielmichael3701  "Pilots don’t survive crashes nice try." Careful, you're talking to a certified aviation/aviation safety geek. National Airlines Pensacola Bay 1978 3 dead, pilot survived, "unprofessional approach" Jail time: no United Portand crash 1978 5-10 deaths, crew survives. jail time: no USAir Laguardia 1989 fatal: pilot survived. jail time: no USAir Charlotte 1994 fatal: pilot survived Jail: no If you'd like more, please don't hesitate to ask.
    1
  2115.  @gabrielmichael3701  An aside: Follow up on USAir Charlotte. Interesting case in point. "Although the jury said USAir’s negligence contributed to the crash, it ruled that the airline was not liable for claims of wrongful death. . . North Carolina law under which the case was tried has a stringent standard for punishment, said David Rapoport, one of the plaintiffs’ lawyers. . . .This jury verdict means the jury felt there was not a willful, intentional reckless disregard for safety, and I think that’s the difference,″ he said." (Me): This is standard in commercial crashes in the US. Manslaughter isn't even mentioned despite stringent North Carolina law and the prosecutor stating "USAir was willfully and wantonly negligent, grossly negligent, and we were disappointed in that regard with the verdict. However, we are quite pleased that there has been a finding of fault,″ This to me is very analogous to the Kim Potter case. The main difference is that we don't have race cops and a climate of racial and racist denial hysteria distorting everything. But the essentials are all the same. In fact, it's even worse in the USAir crash. More negligence. So do we want to put all these people in jail? Should a doctor who has a one time lapse and cuts the wrong artery go to prison? Is this the direction we want to go? Every last lapse is always criminal?
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  2116.  @gabrielmichael3701  I agree with you. Surgeons are not facing identical kinds of judgements. But the essence is still the same. In fact, surgeons arguably face even less stress. In each case, there is human fallibility. There may be more room for malice, but that's hard to prove by standards of due process. Can we conclusively prove Potter acted with Malice?
    1
  2117.  @gabrielmichael3701  Yes, it all depends on the circumstances. I can see Potter being found guilty. But as I've said elswwhere, there's a field of study known as heuristics, which is decision-making when faced with a deadline. What it tends to show is that even the most highly qualified people can suffer an unconscious lapse. This is due to the very nature of short-cut thinking, which must be used when under pressure or a deadline. Because it's often at an unconscious level, these mistakes can't be detected as they happen. I've seen many examples where this may be at play. Though I present this as tentative, this has been my overwhelming argument: it's antiquated thinking to assume even the most careful and experienced cannot fall victim to these lapses. They may be rare, but hardly beyond reasonable doubt. A very good article as regards hunting accidents is worth a read: excerpt: "Contrary to what most people think, the hunters committing these accidents are often experienced and considered to be safe and competent. Crucially, they often believe they have, 100%, correctly identified their target. Psychology and human factors can provide insight into how these situations might occur. When interpreting information, we rely heavily upon mental rules of thumb called heuristics. Heuristics operate outside of our conscious awareness and are utilised even more in stressful or emotionally charged situations. However, they can also make us susceptible to cognitive biases which may lead us astray—we underestimate the impact heuristics will have on our decisions. Attempts to manage heuristics and cognitive biases are often futile because we normally cannot detect them when they occur. Hunters are constantly told that they need to treat every sound or movement as human in an attempt to change their mind-set. However, given the difficulty in detecting cognitive biases, it is unlikely a hunter’s conscious management of heuristics would be consistently possible in the long term."
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  2118. For a murderer and rapist, perhaps.
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  2119. How do you know the Times is wrong? Maybe they are right. Maybe more and more people don't trust it.
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  2120.  @eggmine130  Well, saying "they have a lot of nerve" implies they are most probably wrong. Just curious, do you think liberals as a whole are less fervent in their patriotism? I thought this was a common theme among conservatives and Trump supporters. If so, this article would seem to conform to that belief.
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  2121. Addictions are hard, so I have sympathy for you.
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  2122. Isn't it obvious? Arbery, instead of continuing running down the road, chose instead to turn left and run right into a loaded gun. Whether he had a right to is beside the point. And whether Travis was guilty of reckless endangerment is also beside the point. I guarantee you this, had Arbery charged right into an armed police officer, he would would have beem shot instantly.
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  2123. Do you agree with his record of bloodshed? The slaughtering of peaceful protestors during the last election? His torture chambers for dissenters and the opposition candidate? If in fact most Ugandans agree with you, that's a sad state of affairs indeed.
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  2124. True. But this has to be regarded as among the least significant of the contributory causes.
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  2125.  @c.augustedupin1926  To the contrary, the burden of proof rests with the skeptic: what evidence is there the aluminum planes did not crash into the towers?
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  2126.  Dwingles420  Let's see here. Anyone who disagrees is a shill. No wonder the truth mvt collapsed. The lack of evidence stands as the hallmark of Youtube skeptics. Just as they thrive on a lack of anything remotely resembling serious evidence, so too does the Youtube truther thrive on the complete and total lack of evidence that any given stranger on Youtube is a shill. In each case, the lack of evidence is the name of the game.
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  2127.  Dwingles420  Hey there nice truther. For the same reason people have a passion for debunking weird ideas. What planet do you live on? Have you heard of Skeptic magazine? It's a natural human urge to debunk off base, bizarre or junk ideas. Is that really a mystery to you? It's as common as rain. It says to me you are so obsessed with the idea of paid shills you can't even register the obvious.
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  2128.  Dwingles420  Yeah, that's easy. It's called hubris. It proves to the viewer you have no interest in a serious discussion. You guys don't need any paid shills. You do a fine job on your own wrecking the truth mvt. People come on and see this stuff, and as you say, they see it for what it really is. Nuts. That's why the dying remnants of the truth mvt are relegated to playpen forums like Youtube. Only a few serious people bother to take you on.
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  2129. So if you are really serious, I like to use this as a test question. Truthers typically say the cell phone calls were impossible. But that's an unscientific and erroneous conclusion. So we can test who really has the evidence on their side by who is employing the scientific approach to evidence. Are you up for the challenge? Here's a golden opportunity to show what truth finding is really all about.
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  2130.  Dwingles420  I don't doubt you. But it shows a lack of scientific rigor. Sources: IEEE spectrum study showing cell calls connected at every stage of flight; telecom experts, one of whom I spoke with, who pointed out that back in 2001 most cell phones were analog, and these had a greater range and were more likely to connect back then. Your own limited personal experience is an example of anecdotal evidence, the least reliable form of evidence. You can't just cite one source and ignore all the others. There are also plenty of anecdotes well before 2001 of passengers receiving phone calls from the ground. So as I predicted, said truther/skeptic fails to employ the full scope of available sources, which is one of the main problems of 911 skeptics. They pick and choose only the sources - in this case yourself - that pleases them, and seem unaware or uninterested in all the others.
    1
  2131.  @user-ic6kv7dj4x  "PRETTY sure" You're ahead of the curve. At least you acknowledge doubt, which cannot be said of so many others.
    1
  2132.  @shillhunter2.047  No, science works by considering all the evidence, not just your personal experience. Like I said, paid shills are unnecessary. Each new post confirms that 9/11 truth cannot be taken seriously. You're doing this ALL BY YOURSELF.
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  2133.  @MrYourfriendbutters  "You do realize that "science" is a method. " Why wouldn't I? Before going further, what's your take on the exchange I had about cell phones on 9/11?
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  2134.  @mooneyes2k478  Don't think he can block me on this video. Notice how I lay out my evidence in a reasonable way, with reference to telecom experts and the largest study ever done on cell phone use in flight. And he disappears. That's 9/11 truth for you.
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  2135. Spew out more expletives and more insult posts - QED in advance. Go for it. Prove me correct. More insults, more expletives - just as I predict for teenage punk behavior. Go for it. Let's hear some more of your punkiness. Go for it. Do you want me to write your Big Shot posts for you? You're so predictable. Hmmm How about "Your stupid. Your dumb. Bassett wrote letter. Blah Blah Blah." or maybe "filthy troll blah blah blah" Go for it. Or just quote the above. Who can tell the difference?
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  2136. So to review my replies to Exiles questions - red residue isn't proof, by Sanders' own admission, proven with quotes - Exiles then charges me with lying for providing this proof. - Fred Meyer - his estimate of fireball duration at odds with accident elapsed time. - Mach 4 debris - lacks positive confirmation due to limitations of primary radar sweeps Could I be wrong? Absolutely. That is what science is all about: always open to both sides of the evidence.
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  2137. Had it been shot down, wreckage would have been everywhere, either a big wreck, or lots of small debris that many people would have come across, just as some did in New Baltimore, 8 miles away. In fact only paper and insulation were found that far away, and a few tiny pieces of plastic and metal a mile away at Indian Lake. If you think a jetliner can't disappear underground, look up flight Ethiopian 302. Make sure to see the PRE-EXCAVATION pics. There were wreckage photos of both flight 93 and 77. No one's going to take you seriously if you goof up on basic facts.
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  2138. The only thing you lack is the proof.
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  2139.  @254react  So gays mate with dogs you say? More proof this is one of the most depraved comment sections on Youtube. A crackpot's paradise.
    1
  2140. No.
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  2141. ....on obssesive sexpulsive disorder.
    1
  2142. Better than being a moral lunatic, raping your own wife, and a traitor to your own country, and perpetuating the biggest lie in American politics. All of this means nothing to you? That's America for you: white trash is allowed to vote.
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  2143. But you do have time to waste resources restricting gays. It costs more to enforce laws against them than to talk about it.
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  2144.  @reigndadson975  A true Deity would not waste his time on what goes on inside the bedroom. Kenya has far more important problems to deal with. Humanity has made significant moral progress since ancient times. Kenya has too, but it is way behind in some areas, like the idea that people minding their own business should be labeled criminals. That's backwardness.
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  2145. ​ @reigndadson975  Since when was corruption the invention of white supremacists? People of all races and persuasions are prone to corruption because human nature is the same everywhere.
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  2146. Lot's of people are in love with mass murderers. Nothing new there.
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  2147. But not nearly the same scandal.
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  2148.  @mariustanasoaie1147  And MD effectively took it over. Hence he got the 737Max disasters.
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  2149. Not to mention perhaps the biggest mass murderer acting as president in Africa.
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  2150. No, only some women do.
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  2151. Please cite the passage in the video above where CNN lectured the president. She just asked him two questions.
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  2152. You know, I am far from a Ben Shapiro fan. But this interviewer was indeed badly motivated and a poor sport.
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  2153.  @ohsnapsonbro4260  That doesn't make any sense. If that's "just the way he is," then by definition he's a bad sport. Maybe you meant to say something different?
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  2154.  @likeitout  I think where the interview went bad is about 13:00. Shapiro was being honest and admitting to a laundry list of horrible things he's said in the past; and to please move on to his more current perspectives. Instead, and at that exact moment, Neil does exactly what a poor sport would do, which is to through MORE out of date quotes at him. That said, I also admit that Shapiro was very defensive, a bit like Sam Harris, not the greatest sport at accepting criticism either.
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  2155.  @likeitout  Personally, I don't learn anything interesting when someone ADMITS they have made youthful mistakes, and, why don't we move on to their more current views? To each his own.
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  2156.  @likeitout  "Now when Shapiro doesn’t answer" Understood. But in my citation, Shapiro DOES answer him. He says it was a dumb tweet.
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  2157. But it doesn't necessarily mean it in itself is a sufficient condition for being gay.
    1
  2158. Reflex reaction. If someone unexpectedly grabs your gun, and you already think he's potentially dangerous, it's a survival instinct. At least it could have been that.
    1
  2159. And look how he continues doing it throughout the interrogation. He wants to be caught, no doubt about it.
    1
  2160. Correct, no proof of faked crashes and lying relatives and fantasy landings in Cleveland. Couldn't agree more.
    1
  2161.  @Amazingfilms148  What is false?
    1
  2162.  StopCensorship4---2  "groomers deserve no rights." That would include you and all your heterosexual deviants.
    1
  2163.  @reginageorge4  Well no rights for you, since you are a groomer.
    1
  2164.  @reginageorge4  Not only do I not speak Spanish, I do not know the language of nonsense.
    1
  2165. Yes, profit is always at the bottom of these things. That said, in the air industry, safety does correlate with profit too. If airlines crashed planes at the same rate as the 1970s, there would be 10 or more crashes per year in the US. That's largely why flying is orders of magnitude safer today. Too many crashes is a big threat to profit as air crashes are spectacular media events.
    1
  2166. Why is that? Paper surviving fiery plane crashes is nothing new. The real question is, where do you get this stuff from?
    1
  2167. But we are not going "there." We are giving our views on a US-created, worldwide open forum. Were the colonizers any worse than people like Idi Amin and Obote?
    1
  2168.  @mybestofriendo4615  I was talking the British in Uganda. As brutal as their occupation was, I can't find a reference to how many were killed in all of British African during and after their conquests. Maybe you have a good number? They were by far the least brutal of the European occupiers.
    1
  2169.  @mybestofriendo4615  Totally agree with that last point.
    1
  2170.  @silvereyessilvereyes4200  I'm sorry but teenage sex isn't pedophilia. Society is not served by criminalizing a three year age difference. This is why most states now have a close-in age clause. New Hampshoire had one too, but by a fluke it did not cover intercourse per se. I think you need to update your thinking and stay in touch with common sense. This is very bad behavior but not by any stretch a pedophile.
    1
  2171. Another fine example was Northwest flight 710, whose entire fuselage was found underneath its impact crater: "...something investigators had never seen before. There were no bodies." -from The Electra Story These are great examples how reality is very good at outsmarting our expectations.
    1
  2172.  @CATSWITHKYLA  They did dig it out. But more important, you have failed to explain why flight 93 was necessary for the government's alleged aims. Even without flight 93, we would still have had the W on T. So your case is pure intellectual garbage from the very outset.
    1
  2173.  @stopcensorship7705  Fraternal birth order effect. Show me the disproof.
    1
  2174. Trump - deluded, deceitful and divisive to the very last, and the manic fringe who follows his voter fraud fraud, unable to think for themselves, started at the bottom, and it’s been downhill ever since. They are a disgrace to the intellect. Show us the proof DT won, or ST-U, thank you.
    1
  2175. Why not? Van Zanten clearly goofed. He took off without properly verifying he had the necessary clearance. For example, by waiting for the 1st officer's readback of the clearance before rushing to take off. I would say that mistakes made under stress are far more difficult to prevent. In that sense, it makes more sense to focus on the other more preventable factors. And here, I agree the protocol of pushing a plane onto on an active runway and then having the clouds roll in, and not having ground radar, is asking for unnecessary trouble. If that's your main point, I agree.
    1
  2176.  @leonleon2276  I see your point. But one of the themes that most air safety authorities agree on is that most accidents have multiple causes. Tenerife is a great example. You needed to have many factors in place, including human ones, for this crash to have happened. The KLM pilot made a big mistake that was central to the event, even if it wasn't as primary as ATC. There can be no denying this reality.
    1
  2177.  @leonleon2276  Totally agree with you. But the fact is, the captain still made a big mistake. You can't discount that just because ATC made a bigger mistake.
    1
  2178. We should not conform to the will of the biblical God, for he is in essence a dictator demanding complete submission. Enlightened beings, especially Perfect ones, do not demand such attention for themselves. A truly enlightened Being would not care with whom we sleep, but would instead make slavery a sin, for example. He would not recommend killing a cursing child, or stoning you to death for putting in a few extra hours on Saturday. Hasn't this ever occurred to you?
    1
  2179.  @sergiogonzalez5958  Well thank you for a less dogmatic and more flexible answer than I was expecting. You appear to be genuine, and if it's important in your life, maybe that's what really matter. One follow-up for now: "He has lead us to find pleasure in sin" If God is a perfect being, why would he tempt us with evil?
    1
  2180.  @sergiogonzalez5958  OK, that makes some sense! One more question I have always been fascinated by. While having some things in common, as we all know, Islam differs substantial from Christianity. But its adherents seem no less convinced of its rightness. It too has a rich history, fundamentalist believers who produce the same kinds of historical evidence for its authenticity. To an outside observer, it, and some other religions too, seem to be a variation of the same myths dressed in different clothing. That is, a believer in Islam will produce the same passion, conviction, and alleged evidence as a Christian. Yet since all monotheistic religions cannot all be correct, doesn't this suggest these are cultural myths rather than divine truths?
    1
  2181.  @sergiogonzalez5958  Thank you for your insights. It is appreciated.
    1
  2182. And also the lack of safety culture at the appalling Turkish Airlines (at the time.)
    1
  2183. While I side with the guilty verdicts, the sentences make sense only as an uncontrolled burst of hatred, making these men the symbol of the entire history of white southern racism. When the ether is soaked with such thinking, principles of reasonable doubt and due process are declared null and void.
    1
  2184. Also, wondering why you can't present evidence and gave reasoned argument the way I do. The answer is found in your bitterness. Saying "shill" every other post is designed to shut people up. It relieves you of the responsibility of proving proof for any of the things you say. LIke the amusing idea the War on Terror depended on F93. You can't provide a good argument for it. So you retreat with nonsensical answers like, "who said anything about blowing up grass." That's a non-sequitir.
    1
  2185. Of course it did. If you carefully study every aspect o the evidence, that is the inescapable conclusion. Happy to debate if you care to.
    1
  2186.  @61rdf  OK, the first thing I would ask you to do is check out a webpage. If I give the name of the site, YouTube deletes my post. So please post this into google: Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 and 9/11's United Flight 93 It will take you to some comparison photos of these two crashes.
    1
  2187.  @gibson617ajg  Because 1), they fully expected the building to come down due to the extensive fires. And 2) media make mistakes like this all the time. Consider that Fox News declared the ailing pope John Paul II died the day before he actually died. What I'd like to ask the skeptics who keep saying we can't trust the media, why do they then always seem to trust the media when it confirms their bias?
    1
  2188.  @61rdf  Well that was the shortest debate in YouTube history.
    1
  2189.  @61rdf  Oh sure I did. I got the ball rolling by asking you to look at a website. Did you?
    1
  2190.  @61rdf  How do you know unless you look? It shows that flight 93 is not unique. Ethiopian flight 302 was also virtually completely buried. The pictures prove it. So can we at least agree on that fact?
    1
  2191.  @61rdf  I think what drives this for some people is that they didn't show us most of the wreckage pieces, That was stupid, as it just fuels the skeptics. But there were something like 73 different organizations and1,100 recovery workers, none of whom reported anything suspicious, several photos of parts, the county coroner ID'd all the victims. The crater looks improbable but that's why I'm trying to tell you to look at Ethiopian 302, the proof that this type of crater is possible. The search term I gave you takes you right to the photos. Ultimately, I think the real proof lies with common sense, Why on earth would a government whose alleged aim is to do great damage, why would they want flight 93 to be stopped? That is schizophrenic, as I see it. Why would they want flight 93 to hit a field in the middle of nowhere, instead of of buildings with people in them? If they wanted you to think a plane crashed there, they would have planted big pieces. They wouldn't just show a hole in the ground !!
    1
  2192.  @61rdf  I'm sorry. The reason I am not looking at your evidence is because I only see these posts if I select "newest first." That's probably the same reason you didn't get my link. Youtube is causing this problem. It's causing messages to disappear and then show up later. Now I see your links and I will look at them now. Thanks.
    1
  2193.  @61rdf  Bellow is the post I sent you yesterday. It takes you to photos comparing F93 to Ethiopian 302. It just confirms the pictures you are showing me of flight 93. "OK, the first thing I would ask you to do is check out a webpage. If I give the name of the site, YouTube deletes my post. So please post this into google: Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 and 9/11's United Flight 93 It will take you to some comparison photos of these two crashes."
    1
  2194.  @61rdf  "Flight 93 is not the only incredibly incredible incident that happened that day." I've studied most aspects of 9/1, and we can get to more of that later. But let's just keep the focus on flight 93 for now. As I stated already, why would the government want to STOP a plane from doing damage? That flies in the face of the alleged motives of the government. Kindly spell out why we needed to have flight 93 to begin with. And if so, why "crash" it into the middle of nowhere? You have to admit that sounds a bit ridiculous, no?
    1
  2195.  @61rdf  To make sure we are seeing every post, make sure that as of this post they display 23 replies.
    1
  2196.  @61rdf  Hah ! I saw both of your links, I and commented on them. By contrast you did not even look at mine even though I sent it to you TWICE. We could have had a nice discussion comparing F302 with F93, but you don't want to touch that. That shows definitively that you're the one bowing out despite my being a good sport and replying to every post.
    1
  2197.  @61rdf  "Are you aware that Google Earth took photos of the exact area that 93 reportedly" Except I forgot this one, thanks again to YoutTube's disappearing act. Yes that was debunked years ago. If you do the research, you will see the gash is not oriented in the same direction as the wing imprint. Again, it shows who's on top of the facts and who isn't.
    1
  2198.  @61rdf  And if I may add, the "fake crash site" brigade hasn't a clue as to WHY the government would wish to STOP flight 93, and instead wanting it to "crash" in the middle of nowhere. That's pure schizophrenia. This is why I always say, the 911 skeptics cannot connect the bigger dots. They see only the trees and not the forest.
    1
  2199.  @61rdf  OK, I'll leave it that. But if you care to, there's still an unanswered mystery. What the devil was the government trying to accomplish with flight 93? Why fake a crash for no apparent reason?
    1
  2200. I think the two are completely unrelated. The main reason for the alleged cover-up, if there was one, is to protect the US Navy, not scaring the public.
    1
  2201.  @Steve-pk9ok  I personally lean more towards the NTSB report, so that would not surprise me.
    1
  2202. Why should we take comfort in a Lord that is passionately devoted to evil and human suffering? After all, it's HIS world (allegedly.) He knew everything that was going to happen in advance. Yet he signed off on it anyway.
    1
  2203. How then do you explain the sudden and unprecedented rise in global temperature in the past few decades?
    1
  2204. Do you have any proof the charges are fraudulent?
    1
  2205. Not much evidence for shoot down.
    1
  2206.  @haydenhuh2  How so?
    1
  2207.  @haydenhuh2  Here are the specific facts, which I have researched many many times. There were only two confirmed secondary debris fields. The closest was about 1.3 miles downwind in the town of Indian Lake. A few small pieces of bone, some part of a seat, and "bolt sized" pieces of metal was all that was reported found. The second was 8 miles downwind in the town of New Baltimore, just paper and insulation. This is a tiny amount of debris, not even one millionth of the plane. Comment: since bullets can get even further than 1.3 miles, it it is not obvious or self-evident that tiny pieces of metal could not be blasted over a mile away. If it is, kindly provide the physics equations disproving this. Interestingly, some of the pine needles from the main site were also found at Indian Lake, which tends to confirm this debris was from the main crash site. While it may seem counter-intuitive, light debris being carried by air currents is almost certainly the cause of the 8 mile away debris field. This is proven by two other crashes: PSA flight 1771 also saw light debris showing up 8 miles away. And USAir flight 427, which crashed 100% intact, caused light paper insulation to fall on a golf course some 2 miles away just moments later. See the NTSB report for confirmation. Please note also all this debris was found downwind, which means no debris was found under the flight path itself. Now add in the complete lack of missile evidence, which includes the FDR based flight parameters which were published online, it means the missile theory is very speculative at best. Please do be sure to incorporate these points into your conclusion of what likely happened.
    1
  2208. But if he's executed, he will never be able to experience his punishment.
    1
  2209. LOL, tell me one lie as preposterous as immigrants eat pets. It shows again Youtube has an IQ of about 47: massive inability to make fundamental distinctions. Trump would be even more in favor of WW3. He is on record as willing to give his alter ego, the madman Netanyahu, anything he wants.
    1
  2210. How can you add thrust to the left side without the left engine?
    1
  2211. As for Mach 4, why does FIRO say Mach 2? Why 2 differing numbers? Valid question. But not to angry bullies who don't understand the nature of 1) civil discussions and 2) the nature of evidence. Or we can try Fritz Meyer: he said the fireball fell in just 10 seconds. How do we get a 14 second total accident sequence? We can't, which is why Meyer rejected his own testimony. If you had a genuinely scientific, balanced mind, you would discuss this evidence like an adult, not a hopped up teenager.
    1
  2212. Yes, I think at this point it's pure wishful thinking that the world could come together in under 5 years to stop carbon emissions. I will however give humanity a slight pass. In the early 2000s there was a positive trend for a while, increasing antarctic ice, slightly lowering temps. It helped seal our fate. Even the most pessimistic had no idea the disaster would unravel this quickly. We can't totally blame humanity for this unforeseen horrible luck. It was only after 2015 that the full scale of the disaster began to dawn on us.
    1
  2213.  @IxMADMANxl  So you believe the media when it fits your bias, but at all other 9/11 media stories are to be summarily dismissed. Hey look dude, there's a reason this is a Youtube forum and not a scholarly venue. You just proved it.
    1
  2214. I take it you've never heard the term suicide bomber.
    1
  2215. Well that's an interesting question!
    1
  2216. But it wasn't his fault. He closed the door absolutely correctly according to procedure.
    1
  2217. If Musevini wants CNN to respect Uganda, why not set an example and respect gays. What is this obsession with gay people? Mind your own f--ing business.
    1
  2218.  @somedumbozzie1539  There's also no evidence he could have moved more forward, or that he knew other planes couldn't get around him. So it may be a moot point. Doesn't ATC have an obligation to OK the fueling while in queue? Did they? Arrogance: the only other stray comment was something like "I'm the boss" when discussing refueling option; and the blunt response: "35 minutes" when answering Pan Am. These little tidbits are hardly enough for a personality profile, especially as he had seemed pretty friendly earlier. The evidence of arrogance is mixed: some people who worked with him thought so; but a colleague called him friendly, insisting his fellow crew call him by hist first name. The myth on Youtube, whether true or not, seems mainly a function of viewers placing complete trust in the Mayday episode, with its over-the-top caricature of VZ.
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  2219. A lot of wackos are nice.
    1
  2220. Because there are good arguments on both sides.
    1
  2221. "People in these comments I feel are on two ends of a continuum but there are no in betweenness" But most of them do share one thing in common: the dregs of humanity, exemplars of incivility and vulgarity, and horrific role models. They're in general just like Carter. Put all of them in jail with her as far as I'm concerned, and they can all curse and swear and be vulgar to each other.
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  2222. I believe the CVR of the Pan Am recorded the game in the background, which may or may not positively prove the CVR was picking up the conversation from the ATC transmissions. ATC's rushing the Pan Am onto an active runway may also be seen as irresponsible.
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  2223. Traditions are inherited. And rarely questioned. If you grow up brainwashed, chances are you will never question the reason for it.
    1
  2224.  @stopcensorship7705  Where's the damn height gene.
    1
  2225. But not east Asia
    1
  2226.  @kevinwalsh4652  You are referring to official structural limits, not real world performance. They frequently go way beyond their official paper limits. Egyptair 990 is one example. TWA 841 is another. Boeing in the past has subjected their planes to the wing bending test, and the wings don't usually fail until well beyond their certified limits. "the jet would bounce off into the street." Please provide a proof from a neutral physics expert, something no truther ever has provided to my knowledge. Have you ever called your local physics professor, or do you just blindly place your faith with truth sites? They get so many things wrong. My favorite: "cell calls were impossible from 30,000 ft." I take it they never saw the 2003 IEEE Secrum study of 37 airliners confirming calls connected at all phases of flight. And I take it you trust these sites on that claim too. Am I right? cheers
    1
  2227. Especially from a mass murderer who can't stop killing his own citizens.
    1
  2228. And we can also question his judgement about inviting 7-year-old guests on to his show.
    1
  2229. So Uganda stands for mass murder, sham elections, torture, and mowing down peaceful protesters?
    1
  2230. Yes, Uganda's most celebrated butcher to be sure.
    1
  2231. Not as good as the US though.
    1
  2232.  StopCensorship2-wh3nm  The US ranks significantly better on the STD front: 78th worst, versus Uganda's 45. We must be doing something right.
    1
  2233.  @stopcensorship7705  Pedophilia is bad because it would be very traumatizing for you, as it would be for any child.
    1
  2234. It always does because anything remotely having even a scent of sexual perversion is sure to make big headlines. But in this case the, the police dept. and law enforcement brought the publicity on themselves for trying to protect him. If you ask me, I'd say he probably is proud of being caught. What is the biggest thrill of an exhibitionist trying not to get caught? Having the whole world find out.
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  2235. You haven't researched very hard.
    1
  2236. The truth seems to be there's no evidence of a gay preference in animals, but there's plenty of documentation of "gay sex" in animals.
    1
  2237. "So what? He's a fucking boy. " Fair enough. But this doesn't prove what really happened. If we're honest with ourselves, we should realize that all scenarios on offer are speculative to some degree. Zimmerman may well have been a Vigilante zealot and racist. Trayvon might well have been a violent person. The information available for each is fragmentary. Translation: caution and modesty is called for when playing armchair psychologist. None of us can prove exactly what happened.
    1
  2238. Interesting, thanks.
    1
  2239.  @gary-ju5ox  "I would like to see mentours account of the Erebus DC 10 accident in Antarctica." So would I, as I am of the opinion there has never been a definitive resolution between the two different narratives of this event, each side often caricaturing the other. The reality is, the Mahon report, though a big improvement over the Chippindale, is far from flawless, if not outright misleading.
    1
  2240. Predicting election results has been an elusive endeavor even for the most talented, like Nate Silver. Pretending to be an expert is not fooling anyone with a brain. If you don't have a proof -- which you most certainly do not--, your words are utterly irrelevant.
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  2241. inside your imagination
    1
  2242. No here, though. Was there a contributory factor by employing a baggage handler who could not speak English? Perhaps. But it would be way down on the list of relevant factors, and only speculatively so at that. The primary causes were due to American and Turkish incompetence.
    1
  2243.  @JOHNNY-zx1lc  Yes, but then only speculatively because, even if they had employed an English speaking baggage handler, there's hardly a guarantee the handler would have said anything. And even if he had, it was the Turkish Airlines substitute mechanic, who flew down from London that day, and who also died i the crash, whose job was to check the viewing port. For some reason, perhaps owing to the delay at Paris, he failed to do his job. He might still have failed to do it had it been mentioned to it. I'm just saying, this factor needs to be put in the proper perspective, Thank you for your reply.
    1
  2244. There were both forces working for justice and against. It did take some degree of luck. But the jurors doing the right thing was, I don't think, an accident. As to there only being one black juror, that is troubling. BUT one has to keep in mind statistics don't just have averages, they have variance. The community is 26% black, which means that theoretically speaking, there should have been about 2.5 black jurors. Thus one black juror is not exactly a rigorous proof of racism, any more than rolling double 6s in a board game is proof of cheating.
    1
  2245.  @keithanthony974  The judge said he thought there was probably racism in the jury selection. Yes, it's probable. But no rigorous proof. If you have the specific proof, I may have missed it. Kindly share I'd love to see it.
    1
  2246.  @terriewilliams8831  Curious why the medical examiner, if I have story right, would even mention the state of toe nails? Bizarre.
    1
  2247.  @keithanthony974  Thank you. But what if the judge only thought it was likely? What would he have said in that case? Nothing, I would guess?
    1
  2248.  @terriewilliams8831  Maybe so! But the even more incredible thing is, why would anyone in the court room think to mention it within earshot of everyone? Did this person honestly think that outrageous comment would not be seen for what it was?
    1
  2249.  @terriewilliams8831  Very possibly. Good analysis.
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  2250.  @terriewilliams8831  Haven't followed those ones. Will have a look. Have a nice evening.
    1
  2251.  @christyhoehn8244  "Not fair to sway the jury because of his personal history" Yes, I agree. But not being a victim has its potential biases as well. Lots of people who have never experienced abuse or have not read much on the subject, may not realize just how damaging abuse is. Some people like Alan Dershowitz say the legal age of consent should drop to 14. That attitude could easily bias a jury too. So not sure we should always assume the average "normal" person is the gold standard for being unbiased.
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  2252. @Mr Stilton Stop Censorship has a very limited ability to assimilate counter evidence. He posts his robotic one-liners all over the gay themed videos. So don't pay him too much mind. He thrives on that. Must have a very boring life. I have an image of some poor bed ridden fellow rendered disfunctional by whatever condition he has.
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  2253.  @slimbu8136  I don't have much to add. To me, the science is still very unsettled. But all this is irrelevant because gay men like me know for a fact there is no choice involved, whether due to genes, hormones or the environment. This means Stop Censorship is forced to argue that I am a liar. He cannot account for the people who want to change but cannot. If gay were a choice, the gay conversion ministries would have no market. These people would all just wake up one morning and say, gee I will be straight beginning today. Most people know that is nonsense. This is called connected thinking. Stop Censorship doesn't have it. He's as thick as a brick.
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  2254. You're on the right track. Most of the alt-right crowd, if I may be so presumptuous, only seems to get the first part of what you wrote.
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  2255. I don't know if that would be an accurate generalization.
    1
  2256. Because under stress, mistakes happen.
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  2257. Yeah, my favorite story is the idea that 911 depended on a midair soap opera to give people a sense of hope. Since the ostensible goal of terrorism is not to reassure people, but scare them half to death, this again shows how the truth movement cannot do sensible analysis or connect the bigger dots.
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  2258.  user-ol6zy2pb9b  I agree. And the consensus, even within the truther community, is that flight 93 was real, and it really did crash in PA. I'm happy you agree.
    1
  2259. What would you do if you had exclusively gay attraction?
    1
  2260.  @stopcensorship7705  "don't be gae." Impossible. In general, Gay is an attraction that cannot be changed. If you had the attraction, you would not be able to get rid of it, according to all the best evidence and also common sense. You're talking nonsense.
    1
  2261.  @stopcensorship7705  Like I said, you don't know science.
    1
  2262. "Good they should jail all homosexual to prison for life." That means you are a sociopath. Only a sociopath would advocate life in prison because they don't like someone.
    1
  2263.  John Davis  "You sound like a person who wishes he was heterosexual deep down. But since he can't find the solution to his attraction, he's learned to live with with it rationalize why it's okay. News Flash: (1.) It can be changed, and (2.) whether it is 2022 or 1922, it's still unnatural to be gay whether you agree with it or not." A lot to unpack there. If you want to convince me, start with citing some evidence. I don't know why you're bringing up unnatural. I've never made any statement about that. As far as rationalize, why would there be any need to? It's based on elementary principles most sensible people already accept, such as: -Mind your own business -What two consenting adults do is usually considered OK. Why would you make an exception here? -Behavior that isn't of necessity harmful to others is considered acceptable. -Nonviolent behavior, (which obviously includes consensual gay sex) is usually considered within bounds. Since you wish to make an exception for all these basic principles when it comes to gay attraction/relationships, the need to rationalize rests with you, not me. Why do these principles become null and void when it comes to gays? For the record, you are correct that deep down I wish I could be heterosexual, I would love to able to experience straight attraction. If it were possible to change, don't you think I would have found a way to do so? Let's hear your evidence that every gay person can change. IMO some may be able to change, but the evidence is weak that everyone can do so.
    1
  2264.  John Davis  Thank you, just watched. While I appreciate the gesture, a single person making a video is to confuse the power of belief with proof. This is why anecdotal evidence is considered the least reliable form of evidence. What academic or science-based journal is going to accept that as a proof? When you stated you had never heard of a homosexual wanting to be straight, alarm bells started going off. The self-hating gay exists in uncountable numbers. Their testimony is everywhere, such as "why would anyone choose to be that which is hated, bullied or have their parents disown them?" You've never heard of such a thing before? Here's a question for you, and true believers. Why did God create homosexual attraction if He was against it? And if you answer is that the devil created it, why didn't God simply kill off the devil once he became wicked? After all, God killed all of humanity in a flood (minus 8 people.) God is supposed to be all powerful. So if you can convince me God can be all-powerful, but either cannot or will not kill off the main source of evil, then I might be open to engaging in the fantasy known as the Almighty.
    1
  2265. Yes indeed, because your alleged creator just loves to see people suffer gratuitously. Go for it.
    1
  2266. Sorry, they didn't.
    1
  2267. If it's so obvious, the government would not have used it, as everyone would have seen through it in 2 seconds. Or do you suppose all the engineers who contributed to NIST were blithering idiots, ignorant of basic physics? The idea the government would use junk physics on which to hinge its alleged main plot is plain silly. As Noam Chomsky has said, you are invited to submit a paper to a credible peer review science journal disproving a gravity collapse. If so, you will be the very first truther to do so.
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  2268. Enough on the black thing. This is about rape. Otherwise why not just post race related speculation about every white person on trial. That's kind of boring.
    1
  2269. Indeed sounds hard to fathom. They found only an estimated 8% of the total human remains, mostly in very very tiny pieces.
    1
  2270. I would hesitate to put any of the responsibility on the Pan Am. As the final report stated, their mistake was "not very relevant," for the obvious reason that ATC were keeping track of them and knew they were still on the runway. Additionally, I speculate that had Pan Am requested the 4th taxiway, ATC would have granted it.
    1
  2271. Perhaps, but there's faint evidence of a shoot down.
    1
  2272.  @itsmedrooms6071  We don't know that. It's based on an assumption that we know the level of chaos and confusion that morning. But we can only speculate. The debris 8 miles away contained no airplane parts. It was just scattered paper and insulation.
    1
  2273.  @Ifihadaclue  Where in this list doe it say self-defense is not allowed when committing a felony?
    1
  2274.  @PowerToolsnPearls  Could you provide a source for the bragged about it, shared it on social media claim? Thanks
    1
  2275.  @PowerToolsnPearls  Thank you, will have look.
    1
  2276.  @PowerToolsnPearls  Very bad at Twitter. Just had to change my password, then went straight to Shaun King. If you would have a brief moment, how would I go about finding his tweets on this subject? I see he has over 21 thousand of them, and not seeing a subject search for him. Thanks.
    1
  2277.  @Ifihadaclue  You'll have to explain this better. I looked up section 16-3-21. I'm not getting the connection you are trying to make. Who was committing a felony offense before the shooting occured?
    1
  2278.  @Ifihadaclue  And what section of the law states that you cannot defend yourself when committing a felony. I'm not sure I see what you're seeing. Thanks
    1
  2279.  @Ifihadaclue  ("2) Is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony;" I get it now. You left out this important sentence. The question still remains, what is the appropriate punishment. Since there's no proof of premeditation, and no very solid proof of a hate crime per se, I always try to give the accused the benefit of any reasonable doubt. You have created a reckless endangerment, which I fully agree with. But do you completely forfeit your rights? I'm not convinced of it. I would say 5-10 years is much more appropriate than 40-life, if we go by giving the defendants the benefit of the doubt.
    1
  2280.  @PowerToolsnPearls  Oops, I meant Instagram. When you get to be my age these platforms all sort of blend together.
    1
  2281.  @saynotowoke.8492  Sounds a lot better than US airlines !
    1
  2282. Until they drowned.
    1
  2283. Well it might be, but it's clearly open to discussion.
    1
  2284. Samba Jallow: I think your view lacks compassion and humanity. We need to make a distinction between manslaughter and murder at the very least. Unintentional error can happen to any one of us at any time, including you. The intolerance factor is what I am objecting too.
    1
  2285. Sorry, this video proves nothing about rape culture. You cannot do social commentary on the basis of one human being.
    1
  2286.  @bramsteenhoek2674  I agree rape culture exists. I think it's a question of degree though. A more controversial claim is that "the America IS a rape culture." On the same basis I could claim the US is an anti-rape culture. There are strong prohibitions against rape too. One interesting aspect of the "Mattress Girl" case was how, even after being exonerated, the accused said that he was shunned wherever he went on campus. Apparently no one likes to hang out with a perceive rapist. Also instructive to me was the Stanford rape case. Here we saw both rape culture and a fierce anti-rape culture clashing with reach other. But as usual, only the rape culture part was hilighted by many feminists. So my main gripe with the rape culture paradigm is that it's always a one-way affair You are either fully onboard, or you yourself are part of the problem. This imbalanced perspective is yet another reason IMO why so many reject the term "rape culture." cheers
    1
  2287.  @bramsteenhoek2674  Do you mean he thought he was not really committing rape?
    1
  2288.  @bramsteenhoek2674  That's very interesting because on the one hand, this should be a clear cut case of rape: "no" before, and "no" during. On the other hand, if he really didn't think it was rape, does that call for some small level of sympathy? But my guess is this is more likely not so innocent, and an example of rape culture. Interviews with college age men revealed that between 5 and 20%, as I recall, thought that in situations like this, the victim has essentially entered a contract, and therefore the perpetrator has the right to use force. Therefore, in their mind, it's not rape. Now I have no idea how someone is capable of so contorting basic common sense. Coming from a different angle are those who say that when a college woman goes to a frat party, gets drunk, and you know the rest.....that she has to "take some responsibility for what happened." The "kind" interpretation of that is, they are merely pointing out that younger college women are often naive about the nature of these situations. Fine. But where it becomes a kind of rape culture is taking that literally. The best rebuttal I have is to point out that if taken literally, the victim should also spend some time in jail too. I think once you point out the absurdity, the argument becomes self-evidently invalid.
    1
  2289. No that's not true. The picture of the hole shows it was oriented in a different direction as the plane. What you really should ask is, WHY would anyone try and fake a useless crash in the middle of nowhere?
    1
  2290. He's wrong . Landslide generated tsunamis lose much of their height before they go very far, and the popular Canaries Tsunami claims used to scare the public have been seriously undermined by better scientific models.
    1
  2291. Somehow that sounds like a troll.
    1
  2292. Because you'll believe anything. I'll bet you think the Haitians our eating our pets too.
    1
  2293. You can't. But the truth is, no one, male or female, can be fully trusted, even if men are far worse.
    1
  2294.  @gjustg1540  "none of the parts ever found (dropped) at the site were ever positively matched by serial numbers to that particular aircraft." Since we don't have a report which lists serial numbers, we have no way of knowing if there were no matching serial numbers. So why are YOU making a statement without any corresponding evidence? Similarly you won't find serial numbers or an extensive crash report for PSA flight 1771. When it's determined early on the cause was sabotage, the FBI becomes the lead agency, and they don't give us the same kind of lengthy detailed report that the NTSB does. So does that mean PSA flight 1771 didn't crash either? BTW only relatively recently have crash reports contained extensive serial number documentation. For example, AA flight 191 only lists serial numbers for engines and DFDR, typical of the 1970s and 80s. We know flight 93 crashed where it did because of mounds of evidence; evidence that you would not question for any other crash that happened before or after that day. But I could be persuaded if shown any real evidence the crash was faked. So fr I've found none after studying this crash for years.
    1
  2295.  @CATSWITHKYLA  Hi again. What am I wrong about?
    1
  2296.  @NewPassportBro  "I would love to find evidence proving me wrong." I've given you evidence of two similar events, including 737 that buried itself at least as much if not more than flight 93. But you ignore.
    1
  2297.  @NewPassportBro  We have two other examples of planes burying themselves. The most recent is the 737 in Ethiopia. We can see a photo of the CEO of the airline standing in the empty crater the very day of the crash. If you are as good as an investigator as claimed, let's see you acknowledge this evidence.
    1
  2298.  @NewPassportBro  You still ignore the evidence I have repeatedly mentioned. It shows you aren't serious. Another Youtube truther/troll out for kicks.
    1
  2299.  @NewPassportBro  I have no way of knowing if you are addressing me because your addressee is "@Evidence. But if you are, I am talking bout the 737 plane crash flight 30-2 which left a gaping hole under which most of the plane was found. Can you acknowledge this fact. You said the physics was impossible. You have the burden of showing this. What M Bingham said proves nothing. You are changing the subject. That's why I called you a troll. You cannot answer what is asked of you.
    1
  2300.  @NewPassportBro  BUT speaking of Mark B, his mom once explained he was in the customer service business, and that was his signature way of addressing himself when calling. But then years later, she said she didn't really know why he did that. Perhaps she forgot because it was such a trivial part of the case for F93. Who knows. But being a troll, I 100% guarantee you will never acknowledge the pre-excavation photos and video proving Ethiopai-n flight 30-2 was swallowed more or less hole. It ain't happening because you are not out for truth but for pursuing the bizarre fantasy about a useless plot to blow up some grass in the middle of nowhere. The sheer absurdity of this hypothesis is quite enough as is to render it complete BS.
    1
  2301.  @NewPassportBro  So there is no violation of physics in most of the plane being buried. You now admit that you were wrong about that. Before moving on, can we agree on that point?
    1
  2302.  @NewPassportBro  Ethiopi-an 30-2. debunks you. The plane was swallowed hole.
    1
  2303.  @NewPassportBro  "actual wreckage" It is clear you cannot do basic research. You have failed to find the PRE-EXCAVATION photos, just like every other "truther." I put that qualifier in my first post. But even that wasn't enough. The comparison photos can be checked out at M We-st's site (Youtube refuses to let me post the name of it, but I will gave it a try with spaces added: Met-a-b-unk. The final report shows the CEO of the airline standing in the empty crater just hours later. I knew you would fail this basic research test, as all truthers do.
    1
  2304.  @NewPassportBro  You simply cannot get yourself to acknowledge the vast majority of flight 302 wreckage was dug up AFTER the crash. It's proven by several photos and videos, one of which is even shown in the official report. You continue to demonstrate the shockingly poor research skills of Youtube truthers. Be my guest.
    1
  2305.  @AutoMotoMechanic  This is flight 93, no building. If you are talking about the Pentagon?, sorry lots of debris photos showing parts of landing gear, and the infamous engine photo, not to mention a whole book documenting it.
    1
  2306. "Pretty rich considering 800." Except that the evidence for a mechanical event for 990 is non-existent. Look at the obvious. The Captain comes back into the cockpit and asks what's happening, and the copilot says nothing. Talk about evidence.
    1
  2307.  @v2kcarver367  I think we owe every defendant a reasonable benefit of the doubt. Why not assume the best rather than the worst. She made a mistake under pressure. Note how we (US) don't jail commercial airline pilots when they crash their planes due to unintentional mistakes under pressure. I think it's a more humane approach.
    1
  2308. To be fair it's come a long way since then. But I can well understand the psychological trauma of growing up with this crash, and having it stay with you.
    1
  2309. Correct. Flight 93 should be the most obvious give away: it had no real purpose as a false flag. Thus the truthers had to really stretch big time. America needed some heroes, they claimed. That silly theory cuts to the very heart of trutherism, at least that which we see here practically every hour of the day and night.
    1
  2310. You could have picked a better spokesperson for your cause, as a mass murdering maniac doesn't win you any favors.
    1
  2311. at 28:40 I am obviously missing something. They say Gauci had the magazine many months before Lockerbie. Then how could the issue of the magazine shown have had an article about who planted the bomb many months before it happened??
    1
  2312.  @johnstedman4075  Are you a pilot?
    1
  2313.  @uncleanon6445  Wrong. No video saw him stealing. Yes, it seems heattacked them. But that's because the Ms created reckless endangerment. By cutting out the context, you become a moral simpleton.
    1
  2314. Not Bryan. He does not deserve life, unless you believe that punishment should not be proportional to the crime committed.
    1
  2315. Well remember, the shot most likely was a reaction to being suddenly charged by Arbery. Anyone would shoot in that circumstance, whether a criminal or not. Wouldn't you?
    1
  2316.  @marysheffield190  Agreed. But it isn't clear if Travis' gun was pointed at Arbery when Arbery grabbed it. Either way I agree entirely the Ms acted with complete disregard for safety. Traavis was reckless and is absolutely the primary cause of the shooting.
    1
  2317. But Bragg also called VZ a "gentleman who got himself into a hurry...We all have a tendency to do it." The theme of arrogance causing the disaster is out and out speculation. However I do agree that this is a rare failing for Mentour Pilot. He fails to state the obvious that VZ's actions were by far and away the most serious lapses. Even if one were to grant the Dutch theory that Meurs was "in effect" asking for both clearances, given how rare that would be (at best,) this absolutely demands clear and concise confirmation. At least as I see it.
    1
  2318. What a farce: the government decided it would be a quaint touch to crash a plane in the middle of nowhere so no one on the ground would get killed. How thoughtful of them.
    1
  2319.  @daved3948  The bad decision he made was to create reckless endangerment. But the actual pulling of the trigger may have been a reflex reaction when you are suddenly under attack and someone is grabbing your gun. That's where due process and reasonable doubt were thrown to the wind.
    1
  2320. Yep. More like Gangster Agreement.
    1
  2321. NO ONE SAID JET FUEL MELTS STEEL BESIDES TRUTHERS. Why do you guys keep repeating this lie over and over? No one ever accused the planes of "melting." Look, I know this is Youtube, where the quality is mediocre. But you have to at least put in SOME effort to know the basic claims.
    1
  2322.  @gjustg1540  First retract the lie that anyone other than truthers claim the jet fuel melted steel. Otherwise you have no credibility.
    1
  2323.  @shazianawaz9588  Most people recognize a crackpot when they see one.
    1
  2324. Which never happened. Thanks for debunking your own theory.
    1
  2325. There can be little doubt.
    1
  2326.  @mattlo5710  According to what, the Bible?
    1
  2327.  @mattlo5710  Matt: Anything I say is objectively correct. Me: on what basis? Matt: Because I said so
    1
  2328.  @mattlo5710  Hey, you said "he is objectively correct." I'm asking for the proof it's objective. Is that snarky?
    1
  2329. Please also google this analysis of Sanders' tests: " Sanders elected to do a destructive test that can never conclusively prove the identity of the material, i.e., one could prepare a mixture of totally innocuous materials that would have the identical elemental composition. A demonstrably poor choice of analytical procedure and an unsupportable explanation for the amounts of the elements present are what discredit Sanders' lab analysis."
    1
  2330. Trivia time: the elapsed block time was actually scheduled for 3 hours 54 minutes that day, not 5 hours. Time zone issues seem to perpetually plague these kind of videos.
    1
  2331. Why is it so important to hate gays? There's a more enlightened principle. It's called minding your own business.
    1
  2332. If you want to talk critical thinking, start with: How on earth does faking a crash in the middle of nowhere have anything to do with the alleged goal of the government? "Let's roll" is a preposterous reason to fake a crash, as any sensible person can see.
    1
  2333.  @m0joj0jo666  "The reason for faking it and making up the story is to account for the debris field in shanksville. You have offered no evidence. If you want to keep lowering the standards of the truth movement, continue on sir.
    1
  2334.  StopCensorship4---2  Can you please recommend a hormone treatment so I can choose to become straight.
    1
  2335.  @moonlight80s  Well thank you for the translation, but all 3-year-olds are now on ignore.
    1
  2336.  StopCensorship4---2  Another attempt to deflect attention away from your disastrous hormonal sermon. The idea a gay person could change their hormones to become straight? If you're right, it proves gay isn't a choice. It's a lose lose for your feeble brain.
    1
  2337.  @MK-oz2lf  And conversely, if you made a fatal mistake due to unconscious error, you might not be so quick to judge.
    1
  2338.  @MK-oz2lf  You may be right. But one should not base a verdict on what is likely but what is certain. One must always assume the best rather than the worst of the accused. This is called due process. In this case, speculation, such as yours, has been twisted into confirmed fact. That's why we have a justice system. We have to recognize the difference between speculation, even good speculation, and proven facts. There are exceptions to every rule and past history is no guarantee of guilt.. Neither you nor I can prove we are mind readers. I think this whole approach of making the absolute worst possible assumption about an accused person is the darker side of human nature, at least when someone faces prison. It's precisely because of racism that due process is so important. It's often denied to black people in such cases. So if we trash it here, it sends a message that we can continue to trash it against blacks and other oppressed groups.
    1
  2339. @Stroke About agreeing with the depraved mind.
    1
  2340.  @k.c.r.5974  Don't waste your breath. Mr. Censorship doesn't play honest. He never presents proofs. He doesn't understand that absence of proof is not a proof of absence. He doesn't admit that most behaviors are not determined by a single gene. All he cares about is being a bad sport. The more others hurt, the more of a high he gets.
    1
  2341.  @stopcensorship7705  I never said there was life on other planets.
    1
  2342.  @stopcensorship7705  "there is no genetic evidence that anyone is born with innate sense of sexuality" There is no proof the bible is God's word. But you still believe it.
    1
  2343. Who cares.
    1
  2344.  @4nnd711  "Who cares" is my way of saying, why the obsession with gay people?
    1
  2345. Not sure why you think you qualify as a comedian. You have no talent in that department.
    1
  2346.  @Robert_D_Mercer  Well at least I did something right. :)
    1
  2347. It seems to me that punishment ought to be reserved for the most heinous behavior, cold blooded calculated pre- meditated murder. Not here.
    1
  2348. Good way of putting it.
    1
  2349.  @stopcensorship7705  Well as your name implies, you don't wish to silence Mr. Museveni, do you?
    1
  2350.  @stopcensorship7705  Good for them. He's a murderer.
    1
  2351.  @stopcensorship7705  For murderous presidents, you bet.
    1
  2352. Doesn't prove abortion is wrong.
    1
  2353.  @Westberg246  This is an age old question: Benefit of the doubt versus a convenient way to escape responsibility. I agree with you. I don't pretend to have a definitive solution. So, should we just do away with due process and proof beyond reasonable doubt?
    1
  2354.  @krp9555  As I said, the research on decision making under pressure or time limit shows we are all subject to unconscious bias. Not expecting many to agree with me because this is not part of our "common sense" worldview. But it should be, IMO.
    1
  2355. Possibly, but keep in mind the statement has two possible meanings. 1- the good dead was killing Arbery. 2- the good dead was being a concerned citizen out to protect their neighborhood, the killing not being premeditated.
    1
  2356.  @TheTruthAllDay  The biased assumption was what led the two men to start chasing a black man under questionable circumstances. However, the state of mind when Travis pulled the trigger is key here. It MAY have been an auto reflex reaction, an instinctive self-defense response when someone turns to confront you and grab your gun. This doesn't get the Ms off the hook. But it creates obvious reasonable doubt regarding malice murder versus 2nd degree murder or manslaughter, or the equivalent thereof in Georgia. I fail to see how we can rule this possibility out. Can you rule this out beyond a reasonable doubt?
    1
  2357.  @Khadijah459  It's annoying that you aren't using your brain. I can easily prove to you I'm not a bot by engaging me in a real conversation about due process and reasonable doubt. But I fear as with everyone else, you will turn down the offer and either not respond, or continue with more accusations and no actual analysis of the facts. Prove me wrong. I guarantee anyone reading this will see that Khadijah will not deliver.
    1
  2358.  @MeghanS9883  Thank you. But my guess is he or she won't return. People who have nothing to say usually disappear very quickly.
    1
  2359.  @TheTruthAllDay  Lisabaginski? She seems to be on your side.
    1
  2360.  @TheTruthAllDay  If that means you're willing to have a respectful discussion, then let's do it. Start with due process and reasonable doubt. They are the foundation of the American justice system. So the first question I would ask is, do you accept that due process is essential for justice?
    1
  2361.  @TheTruthAllDay  No. But two wrongs don't make a right. Without due process, our system could dispense with a trial altogether. Are you in favor of that?
    1
  2362. Are you talking about the Georgia memory wipe of 3 years ago?
    1
  2363. True. But consider that a terrorist bomb might also prevent an accident that otherwise would have happened due to the airport being shut down.
    1
  2364. They didn't. The hijackers did.
    1
  2365.  @MentourPilot  Excellent presentation. Would you be able to direct me to the portion of the CVR transcript that happened before the official one in the accident report? This includes friendly banter between the two crews much earlier, Meurs' comment "would he know?" and the Pan Am's statements he wanted to wait for KLM to take off before entering the runway. I can't find these conversations anywhere online. Thank you
    1
  2366. Plane in Pennsylvania is a decisive refutation of inside job. How did the inside job benefit from crashing a plane into an empty field rather than into people? Answer: another example how skeptics struggle to connect even the most basic dots. Their brains are stuck in small mode.
    1
  2367. Remember, the plane has to do the return flight, and if that one's full the airline may decide the total round trip revenue makes it worth it. Pre-nine one onne lightly booked planes were a commonplace. Just ask anyone over the age of 3.
    1
  2368. Wait until someone does a video on car crashes.
    1
  2369.  @Robert_D_Mercer  Well, ask commercial pilots yourself. They should be more qualified to speak than you or me.
    1
  2370. @@adamkennedy6284 Yes I know. I'm a paid shill too because, as we all know, the government desperately needs to pay us to do what truthers already do so well on their own: look as stupid as possible.😵‍💫
    1
  2371.  Roger Dodger  You weren't there, you have no idea if he was walking back to his vehicle. No one does except him.
    1
  2372.  Roger Dodger  He might have confronted Trayvon. That's the part no one knows. You weren't there. So stop pretending you know what happened in the final seconds leading up to the physical part of the confrontation.
    1
  2373.  Roger Dodger  We do know some of those things. What we do not know is, who started charging whom first? Maybe Zimmerman did. Maybe that's why he got tackled by Martin. You can't make things up like you do. We don't know the timetable. There isn't an ounce of proof in the court documents that Trayvon initiated the violence. Zimmerman was acquitted not because Trayvon charged him initially, but because Zimmerman was fearing for his life later on in the fight. Two completely distinct issues.
    1
  2374.  Roger Dodger  "SANFORD, Fla. June 27, 2013— -- A woman who was talking on the phone to Trayvon Martin moments before he was shot and killed by George Zimmerman acknowledged on the stand today that she does not know whether Zimmerman or Martin started the fatal fight."
    1
  2375. Selective honesty only.
    1
  2376. And it seems to me that it's women, not men, who are clamoring for marriage. After all what's a bachelor party? To celebrate your last day of freedom.
    1
  2377. We've already gone over this. They were crushed into tiny pieces. Again, why do you keep making the same mistake in your assumptions?
    1
  2378.  @knockeledup  I was responding to this post "Where are passports of all other passengers from both planes?" Maybe you missed it due to Youtube's broken thread system, which they refuse to fix?
    1
  2379.  @JohnStedman-d4s  Well said. But it can be argued that weighing the factors properly is an inherent part of accident investigation and not necessarily about blame. Mentour clearly does not feel comfortable in singling out Van Zanten's mistake as far more primary than the others, even though this is obvious, at least within the system in place that day. One of the many unlearned lessons appears to be as basic as safety 101. In the US, the system is hell bent on rushing to cram more planes back into the air despite the admitted fact the ATC system is less redundant and cannot handle the load with the same safety level, as well as being far behind technologically. We know what the lessons are, but most people who run the system don't seem to give a sh-t. The idea of running a Black Hawk 125 below a landing aircraft in the dark under VFR is criminal.
    1
  2380. IMHO the judge did the wrong thing. He threw reasonable doubt out the window with his malice murder judgement. Is he a mind reader? Travis could just as well have shot at Arbery as a reflex impulse, the impulse to defend yourself when someone suddenly charges you grabs your gun. Are you perhaps a mind reader too?
    1
  2381. But you can't admire the persecution of nonviolent behavior. That's backwards morality.
    1
  2382. ​ @davidshuff8838  I get it, but it's the wrong context. Persecution of the innocent is not the time to be admiring honesty. Had he not signed off on legal persecution, I would say, fine.
    1
  2383.  @davidshuff8838  I don't think it's woke to protest injustice. Do you?
    1
  2384.  @billyevans4929  Are you as concerned about all the "un-unborn", that is, all the potential lives that won't have a chance to exist because lots of people refuse to have kids? What's the difference? In each case, such unborn "people" also don't get to live.
    1
  2385. I would also say to you that there's SOME physical evidence in this case, and that evidence by and large does not clash in a major way with GZ's basic story. So if you have a claim of self-defense, and its plausibility is enhanced by, and not contradicted by, the limited physical evidence, then the prosecution has not met its burden of proof. THEY have the burden of proof here, NOT GZ. Why? Because they are the one making the accusation. This is how American justice is supposed to work. Right?
    1
  2386. Irresponsible zoo. Its gorilla exhibit was not child proof. That's pure negligence. Have you ever been a parent? Even the most attentive parents cannot be 100% perfect. That's why sensible people agreed it would be wrong to charge the mom.
    1
  2387.  @chicochris3062  Well, you're way off base. Youv'e obviously never had kids.
    1
  2388. Oh they're out there. Put enough people on a planet and you'll have a market for every view you can think of (and not think of). Then you just need to be loud enough and shocking enough and attention getting enough to make yourself seem less insignificant than you are.
    1
  2389.  @derekgreene2304  Yes. I was referring to your theory that an aluminum plane can't go through a building. Did you check that out with a physics expert yourself? We don't need Judy Wood because we already have a good understanding of what happened without bringing in high energy weapons, or whatever she thinks might have been used. The inability to trust the evidence of one's senses is one of the more remarkable phenomena of our time. I can give you page after page of witnesses who saw IN PERSON the 2nd plane impact. Were they seeing a hologram?
    1
  2390. Ah I see Derek has deleted his replies. I think he began to finally use his brain.
    1
  2391.  @derekgreene2304  So why did you delete all your replies?
    1
  2392.  @derekgreene2304  Do you see any of your replies? If so, I apologize. It must be Google's customer vendetta algorithm once again.
    1
  2393.  @derekgreene2304  That woman, as I recall, has no data. It's just speculation.
    1
  2394. If you believe you know what God thinks about homosexuality, you are delusional. Question: why did God create homosexual attraction if He is against homosexual attraction?
    1
  2395.  @stopcensorship7705  Tell us where science has proved God's existence.
    1
  2396.  @stopcensorship7705  GWAS no height gene. Just ask God. Does He take phone calls?
    1
  2397.  @benmiddleton9984  That's not self-evident. You need evidence.
    1
  2398.  @benmiddleton9984  There are lots of gods worshiped out there, several hundred at least, and over 4,000 religions or variants to choose from. And I suppose that rather than having selected Christianity after carefully studying all 4,000 religious variants and subjected them to peer review, you just happened to be born in a Western country where you were taught the Bible from day one, and now you don't have to look any farther. Do you suppose I got any of this right? Or were you born in Mongolia and discovered the truth by yourself?
    1
  2399.  @benmiddleton9984  You have no knowledge of that. It's the power of belief.
    1
  2400.  @benmiddleton9984  Think of this as a court case based on current standards of credibility. What materials would you provide that can withstand cross examination?
    1
  2401.  @stopcensorship7705  "Lindy effect" You're right I haven't. What is your point.
    1
  2402.  @benmiddleton9984  But it's all you and I have to judge. The evidence we have for God cannot be proven by existing standards of evidence. It's still an act of faith.
    1
  2403. Not if the trans man hasn't taken any performance enhancing drugs. Most of the do not.
    1
  2404. Part of this may be biology. Men are by far the more violent gender, and by far the more hypersexual gender. They just can't say no to it. Now add a little patriarchy to the mix and, voila!
    1
  2405. And a good sector of the public gets happy when they elevate speculation to the status of certainty.
    1
  2406. So what's you theory regarding flight 93?
    1
  2407.  @LuckyPoop  The only problem is, you have no proof.
    1
  2408.  @LuckyPoop  I believe remote control tech exists, and may well be on today's gen jets. but no real proof it can't be overridden by pilots. What makes you so certain? What would be the point? Name a scenario where it has a high chance of ever being used on a commercial flight. Sure didn't work on 9/11.
    1
  2409. I don't think anyone really knows for sure the burglar stories were lies. Do you have proof? It's also questionable how much race motivated them. It's a myth that every time a white racists pursues a black person, it must be because of racism. Where does that lame argument come from? These are just gut intuitions based on the current sad state of racism and race relations. Humans are routinely outsmarted by reality when they shove the nuances of any situation into a convenient box. If we are honest with ourselves, we should be more modest and say, "I can't be certain."
    1
  2410.  @transhudson  "was said to have uttered the term: "Effin N#^$^er" " Only Bryan accused Travis of this according to only one person - himself curiously. And only AFTER the shooting had happened. A reflex reaction from a racist pig doesn't mean that's what motivated them to follow him in the first place. Sure, it's a reasonable guess. But not a known fact. "so don't tell me that racist assaults by WHITE ARMED CREWS against unarmed black and brown people hasn't been common in this country" Hey, read my post before criticizing it. Tell me where I denied this hasn't been common. Where? Give me chapter and verse. Go for it. My whole post is about due process, which means we give the benefit of any reasonable doubt to the accused. That does not mean they weren't racist pigs committing a hate crime. They were racist pigs, especially that Bryan fellow according to police. I'm just saying, don't confuse the history of racism and what your gut tells you with provable facts in any given case.
    1
  2411.  @transhudson  "My comments point to the history of racism here in America PLUS the facts of the case. It's virtually impossible to dissect those 2 basic factors of this case from 1 another." It's wrong though. If you used that reasoning in the context of, say, a controlled scientific experiment, you would rightly be accused of not having proved your case. As I said, not everything that happens follows regular predictable patterns. You fail to account for complexity and variance. In a criminal case, you must give the accused the benefit of any reasonable doubt. "I CAN SLAM YOU ALL DAY BECAUSE I KNOW THAT I BELIEVE THAT I'M TELLING THE TRUTH" I believe the truth is that these guys are guilty of murder. I'm talking about whether you can prove racism was the primary motive. Maybe it wasn't.
    1
  2412. It has a mixed taste to me. The men clearly are disgusting pigs. But on the other hand the jury overstepped its bounds, IMHO.
    1
  2413.  @messagefamilystyled1101  They should all be covered. But c'mon, this is, if not a first, something close to it. If you can't figure out why, try taking a math course. CTing is pointless, ignorant and silly. These people rarely do their homework and it shows.
    1
  2414. Except for bisexuals, gay & straight are not a choice for the most part.
    1
  2415. If the end of the universe includes the end of you, I'm all for it.
    1
  2416. Because malice murder was not robustly proven. This was manslaughter. I think racist hysteria has twisted people's thinking to the point that racism is seen as a crime worse than murder itself.
    1
  2417. It's a lost cause. Common sense doesn't prevail on Youtube, only moronity does. For every 100 stupid comments, we get one sane one like yours.
    1
  2418. Because society is not made a better place by doing that.
    1
  2419. Only light debris was found 8 miles away: paper, insulation, carried there by air currents. If you would like to have a serious and polite discussion, let's do it.
    1
  2420. Absolutely. I think what would even be considered a brain takes a few weeks to exist.
    1
  2421. No, she was deliberately tricked into answering a stupid question, designed to elicit such a technical answer, then pretend she's a bigot. Now that we know who put her up to it, it has been exposed as the sham that it is.
    1
  2422. Indeed he is Snoopkiller, a man who finds solace in mass murder and bedroom management.
    1
  2423. Did you know that in any given year 35% of straight men in the US say they have done this? Now let's think for a moment. Imagine a scenario in which the vast majority of human beings reproduced asexually. But 1% of them had a freakish gene that made them heterosexual. Would you like to guess the reaction of humanity to this 1% of freaks?
    1
  2424.  @davedarius7346  So what. Lot's of things are unnatural. Like high fructose corn syrup. Does that stop heterosexuals from having soft drinks?
    1
  2425.  @kedeshagordon757  "So fructose corn syrup ain’t making sense." You brought unnatural up. If high fructose corn syrup is OK with you, you need to use a different argument. Otherwise you are contradicting yourself.
    1
  2426.  @davedarius7346  "not onboard the whole LBGT thing in general....." Me neither. It can be a bit much. As a gay man who did not choose my gay attraction, all I wish is for everyone to just calm down and give gays their basic rights. You can reject gay pride parades, with gays having sex on rolling beds, and the militant woke left, and so on. But basic rights is something absent in Ugandan thinking, it would seem.
    1
  2427.  @kedeshagordon757  I am not accusing you of homophobia. I also react the same way to "the act," and unlike 1/3 of the straight men in the US, I have no interest in doing it and have never done it. I think it's a little presumptuous to equate gay with "the act," as many do, as they are two different things. And this seems to be the predominant mindset among those who complain about gays here. I'm just curious. Lot's of people find the "act" disgusting or gross. That's fine by me. But why is it important to go the extra step and say, "I am AGAINST the act." If you know gays (and others) are not going to stop doing it, what is accomplished by by saying this. Isn't "I find it disgusting" good enough?
    1
  2428.  @thematic3893  Yes there's a cultural difference. I have this question though: Do you believe in the Golden Rule, i.e. the principle of treating others as you would want to be treated?
    1
  2429.  TheMentourPilot_On..Tele-Gram  Don't you feel even a twang of guilt in your line of work? Or does it take a complete wash of right and wrong to set foot in your shoes?
    1
  2430. No I haven't noticed this. Bottom line, the McMichaels pursued an illegal citizens arrest. Their self-defense claim must be seen in this broader context. They created reckless endangerment. So it's up for grabs how much if any weight should be given to their right of self-defense.
    1
  2431. She's crying because she's human. Manslaughter is totally inappropriate for negligence. You need criminal intent or gross recklessness. Society is going mad.
    1
  2432. That's not sound logic. Even if being gay were totally a function of the environment, that wouldn't mean people choose it. Data would never change this man's mind. Remember, he wants gays jailed for life, per the 2023 Anti-Homosexual act. No reasonable person would wish to destroy another person's life over being disgusted.
    1
  2433. When Travis took aim at Arbery, he crossed a basic line. It's known as assault with a deadly weapon. It is that act which ratcheted up the violence factor out of all proportion to the situation.
    1
  2434.  @VortekStarling  Afraid you are wrong here. This is the part people get wrong when they don't study the case carefully. Well before the shots were fired, Travis took aim at Arbery when he was still several seconds away, and still behind the truck. The FBI enhanced version of the video, and Travis' own testimony prove this beyond doubt. Travis admits this is exactly what he did. He took aim from a far because he felt threatened. That is what led Arbery to grab the gun. The unnecessary escalation of violence, which provoked the final confrontation. You have no right to aim a loaded weapon on someone just because they are jogging in your direction. This is common sense lost on the Ms defenders.
    1
  2435.  @VortekStarling  I agree life is too harsh. But by creating reckless endangerment, someone ended up dead. So he has to take some responsibility for the death, not just assault, IMO. I also think the third guy, Bryan, is being treated unfairly. There's very little balance in this case, in part because people are sick of racist violence, and at this point in time, these three have become the personification of evil, and a symbol of the racist history of the US. With this level of hatred, due process and balance are not likely to be respected.
    1
  2436. Well, what of all the people who bring children into a world far more dangerous than this. Mankind is clinically insane.
    1
  2437. Their commands were non standard, but I don't know if I would say "nonsensical." It is interesting to note that according to the cockpit voice transcripts (the portion they never published) Pan Am did indeed want to wait for KLM to be gone before back-tracking. Ultimately he relented, but at least his instincts were right.
    1
  2438.  @omegacon4  I agree with you. The right thing was not done on many levels here, from constructing the airport in the worst possible location, to listening to the soccer match, and most importantly, the certification of an airport where planes routinely flew VFR while in IFC conditions. That also gave us the Dan Air crash a few years later.
    1
  2439.  @repelsteeltje310  Racism is still plenty common today, no?
    1
  2440.  @repelsteeltje310  "just like discrimination. Doesn't make it right... They're both unreasonable hatred because it judges people on how they're born instead of judging people on there character and deeds" That reply doesn't flow from what I stated.
    1
  2441. Yes, he probably meant "up till this time"
    1
  2442. Not quite. The FO asked for airways clearance, and possibly thought he was asking for both clearances because he prefaced his request with "we are now ready for take off." Before the controller said "OK," he started with "you are cleared to the Papa beacon....," which may have further contributed to a possible misunderstanding. Then came the clearance read back by the 1st officer, who stated (at least what ATC took to mean) they were "at take off." But the FO probably meant they were taking off, in which case the crew probably took the OK as positive confirmation of take off clearance. As a colleague who often flew with him stated, the FO had a habit of inserting a lot of "ahs" in his statements. Thus "at take off" could just as well have been "ah taking off." The investigators were divided by which of these was actually said.
    1
  2443. I wish I had gone on that plane - it used to fly over my house. Gorgeous.
    1
  2444. Tell us how Trump induced chaos led to the DC crash.
    1
  2445. When mired in corruption, election fraud and murder up to your neck, what better way to deflect attention away from your crimes.
    1
  2446.  StopCensorship4---3  Maybe you support him. I don't.
    1
  2447. Healthy skepticism is needed for all of Youtube.
    1
  2448. Well, I think he ruined it. My speculation, as one poster said, is he probably enjoyed the thrill of almost being caught. That said, do you remember the mass hysteria day care center witchhunts of the 90s? The slightest suggestion of deviance sends many people into trigger mode.
    1
  2449. So by your logic, every 1.5 degrees means better and better. And when we get to 212F, we will have utopia. Go for it.
    1
  2450.  @albertsez  The climate has only begun to negatively affect the planet in a substantial way in the last 25 years or so. So what happened in the 125 years before that is largely irrelevant. It may be that the earth can absorb up to a degree or so of temperature rise. All the worry depends on how accurate the science is. I believe the science is accurate. The evidence is now so overwhelming. Do you follow the news? The alarming changes are happening even faster than the worst predictions by even the most alarmist folks. The rise in temp is accelerating. The ice is melting like crazy. The polar regions are experiencing heat waves unprecedented. There was a time to be skeptical. The doomsayers of the past, such as Paul Ehrlrich, were reckless alarmists proven wrong again and again. But we are way past that sorry phase of doom and gloom. The idea the next 1,5 degrees will be of no consequence is disproven by the science.
    1
  2451.  @albertsez  OK, thanks for that. But both things can be true. We can have flourishing with some degree of warming. But there has to be some degree of concern. It seems every day the news gets worse and worse. Personally, I think up to about 2015 or so, you could still make case for a climate crisis hoax, marginal though it might be. But since then the ice and the glaciers have been retreating rapidly. The prediction of a 2-3 ft sea level rise by 2100 is now totally out of date. 3-6 is more likely. Have you been following the news about "Greenland cracking more rapidly than ever? The West Antarctic situation seems to grow worse by the day. Do you have any concern that things might well be on a collision course with catastrophe?
    1
  2452.  @albertsez  What about Greenland and and Antarctica. The meting rates, the deep cracks, the Thwaites glacier/ice shelf. All lies? I hope you're right.
    1
  2453.  @albertsez  So do you see any need to reduce our carbon output? No effort whatsoever?
    1
  2454.  @albertsez  Me? I tended to be something of a environmental skeptic back in the days of Julian Simon. But lately I am no longer so skeptical. I cannot at the present time claim to have the for and against arguments at my immediate disposal. But the loss of glaciers and ice sheets constantly in the news has me very worried. If you'd care to, I'd like to test you claim that Michael Mann has lied. Kindly provide the lie, and I will look into it. cheers
    1
  2455.  @albertsez  Latest from the BBC "The world's glaciers are melting faster than ever recorded under the impact of climate change, according to the most comprehensive scientific analysis to date." Does that cause you any level of concern?
    1
  2456. FYI no one knows what your Haha refers to.
    1
  2457. There was no point proven. Gay attraction is not a choice for most people.
    1
  2458.  @stopcensorship7705  I used to think there was no idiot gene either. Now I'm beginning to wonder.
    1
  2459.  Jeremy Dewitte  He doesn't understand science too well. He also doesn't understand common sense. He refuses to answer my question on another thread: "Can you choose to hate your favorite movie?" That single question undermines the entire fabric of the gay-is-choice brigade. That's why he doesn't answer it. To do so gets one further bogged down in the denial of basic concepts. Here, the idea attractions are chosen, a much more fundamental flaw in one's grasp of basic reality. And I suppose he would also say we choose to feel bad on a blue day because there's no "bad gene."
    1
  2460.  @stopcensorship7705  Once again you fail basics 101. We are talking attraction, always have in this ongoing soap debate. Not behavior. How dense can you be after all these posts? Something is seriously wrong with you if you think this debate was ever about choosing behavior. Seriously. But it's OK. I'm sure you are still just as juicy and yummy as before.
    1
  2461.  @stopcensorship7705  "none of it is genetic." Wait a moment, I thought we agreed there could be up to a 25% genetic input here. Talk about changing goalposts.
    1
  2462.  @stopcensorship7705  Fraternal birth order effect. Still no explanation. Did I get that right?
    1
  2463.  @stopcensorship7705  "Twenty years ago, Ray Blanchard and Anthony Bogaert demonstrated that the probability of a boy growing up to be gay increases for each older brother born to the same mother, the so-called fraternal birth order (FBO) effect. Their first investigation indicated that each older brother increased the probability of being gay by about 33% (1). This startling phenomenon was confirmed in multiple studies based on independent populations totaling over 10,000 subjects, and a meta-analysis indicated that between 15% and 29% of gay men owe their sexual orientation to this effect" Explain.
    1
  2464.  @stopcensorship7705  You want to talk out of date?" From The Journal of S-x Research, dated January of this year: "Our analyses yield robust evidence of an FBOE on both male and female homosexuality,but no support for the FFE. Additionally, we find that individuals’ birth order affects the probability of entering a same-sex union, regardless of the sex of older siblings." This study involved data from over 9 million people and found robust support for the fraternal birth hypothesis. I found this study in about 5 clicks of Google searching. Where were you? Blindly posting your clichés in thread after thread rather than being a real scientist and doing your homework, I suppose. Finally, the prenatal hormonal hypothesis has yet to be ruled out by you or anyone. It remains a strong biological contender. You lose gain because you refuse to think like a scientist. even as you put on pretentious airs of scientific literacy.
    1
  2465.  @Cookie-hg4xb  OK, what is your scenario?
    1
  2466. But even if he was, it makes no difference. The Ms, by Greg's own admission, could not positively ID Arbery. That completely moots the trespassing violation.
    1
  2467. Such lapses become somewhat less shocking when you consider the studies done on "heuristics," or the study of decision making, especially under stress or time constraints. Heuristics is the system we are all forced to use when decisions need to made quickly, or having to keep track of lots of info. It can't all be done on a conscious level, witness driving. "Autopilot" always takes over on some level. But it's not a fail-safe system. The insidious thing about it is that when an error occurs you are not always consciously aware it has occurred, so there's no way to detect it while it's happening. This tends to clash with common sense. Further, in stressful situations, one's focus tends to narrow and fall back to past ways of doing things. I'm thinking in this case: a different protocol he may have used as a training captain, or expecting to get a take off clearance when usually expected. This could have been a major factor. There was a fascinating case of a LH crew some years ago where both pilots had been so convinced that they had received a take off clearance that, after coming uncomfortably close to another plane on take off, radioed ATC to tell them the clearance had not been such a good idea. Yet tapes proved no such clearance had been given!
    1
  2468.  @tezlatower2362  You won't get a reply because these people have no evidence to in excess of two sentences. Which they've already used up.
    1
  2469. If the world went by zero tolerance standards, there would be almost no accidents. Another flaw of humankind.
    1
  2470. "gone because of this psychopath" This is another assumption w/o proof. He could have indeed been following from a safe distance. Martin could have jumped him in anger, and beating the s--t out of him. That's also an assumption w/o proof. If we want to be responsible, we have to all stop playing God and go just by the known facts. "Following" someone is a vague word and doesn't prove one is a psychopath. Why is the distinction between known fact and speculation so hard for people to grasp?
    1
  2471. That's the lazy man's way out. More likely he was a victim of heuristics: errors that, especially under stress, can happen completely outside our conscious awareness.
    1
  2472. Didn't you watch the end?
    1
  2473. You are speculating. Other planes have survived high speed flight at low altitude. TK flight 981 reached a peak velocity of 497mph shortly before impact, and crashed at 485mph. TWA 841 is another great example. Nice try.
    1
  2474.  @kevinswinyer3176  I'm only saying that your comment "shake themselves apart" is speculation. I gave two examples that conflict with that.
    1
  2475. So? We're all different.
    1
  2476. Yes she did. Taking care of a child doesn't mean 100% perfection. Maybe you've never been a parent. Why is no one criticizing the zoo for letting children into a hazardous environment? It's such an astonishing feat of illogic to blame the parent and not the zoo. Seriously.
    1
  2477. Explain flight 93: what purpose did it serve?
    1
  2478. Not cause.
    1
  2479. Why was he lucky? He still got a life sentence.
    1
  2480. Why fake a crash in the middle of nowhere? Such a belief in itself refutes the truth movement. It shows the truther community can't connect the dots, or think Big Picture. Thank you for confirming this.
    1
  2481. But not so straight to the point about murder and torture, the worst mass killer in the nation's history.
    1
  2482. Whatever it is, it's better than temp records broken every year, ice melting much more quickly. How much worse does it have to get before it registers in your brain?
    1
  2483.  @1wannabee1  Also correctamundo: a mundane media mistake of no significance.
    1
  2484.  @1wannabee1  OK, well let me explain exactly what I mean. Especially when a news story is first developing, the media as we all should know, is highly prone to inaccurate reporting. Nothing new, right? I could make, and so could you, an endless list of these errors. Is this level of mistake unusual? Relatively speaking, yes. But hardly unique. In 2005, for example, Fox News reported the death of Pope John Paul II the day before he actually died. Does this indicate a cover-up, or something suspicious? Or is it more likely that since his death was highly expected, a mundane type of mistake was made: someone misread a report as stating he had already died? You tell me. Now with building 7, we have essentially the same thing. A highly expected event. If you doubt this, you aren't up to date on the evidence. At about 2:30 that afternoon, the decision was made by chief Nigro to get everyone away because they feared a collapse. I can give over a dozen fireman quotes confirming this. So if you're the BBC following the story, you are going to know well in advance a possible collapse is expected. So the reason the report becomes "mundane" is that we have almost an exact analogy to the Pope's death. Reports are coming in of a highly expected event, and very possibly someone somewhere misreads the words as indicating the collapse had already occurred. I'm not saying this is a fact, but a sensible possibility.
    1
  2485.  @1wannabee1  "It is IMPOSSIBLE ...within such a short space of time from the decision to pull it being made. THAT is my point here! Yes, I do get that point. But it assumes Silverstein meant controlled demolition. Maybe he meant pull the men away from the building. If you can't accept this possibility it shows that you see only in black and white. It makes no sense for him to mean controlled demolition. Think about it carefully: if the reason to "pull it" is to save lives, then the most sensible meaning is to get the men away from the building. Given this option, you'd have to be insane to propose demolishing the building. Presumably Silverstein is no dummy. The quotes from chief Nigro and dozens of other fire fighters show they were afraid of a collapse. There is no mention by anyone to set off explosives (there was one lone fireman who said "it's going to blow up." But that could just be fireman vernacular. he's the outlier.) Everyone else feared a collapse. You're hung up on a word and can't see beyond that to the big picture.
    1
  2486.  @1wannabee1  " is HELL did that woman report something that had NOT even happened yet?" You must not believe in reading other people's post. I gave you the analogous example when Fox News reported the pope's death a day before he died. Was that also a Grand Conspiracy to murder the pope perhaps?
    1
  2487.  @1wannabee1  FDNY Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro, on WTC 7: "The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged building. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building’s integrity was in serious doubt." Does this sound like controlled demolition to you?
    1
  2488.  @1wannabee1  "Ask ANY demolition expert and he will TELL you...." You're right. We cannot have a reasoned discussion when you constantly post misinformation. There are PLENTY of cd experts, such as Brent Blanchard, with whom I have spoken, who do not agree. It shows you are an unreliable discussion mate. If WTC 7 was taken down by explosives (which is preposterous in theory because who could have known how much damage it would have suffered from WTC 1 in advance???) then have one of the truther experts submit a paper to a science journal. Like, a real science journal, not the fake peer review Journal of 911 whatever it's called. As Noam Chomsky has said, it's the easiest thing in the world to do but they point black have refused to this day. Have Tony Szamboti submit a paper to am engineering peer review journal. What is stopping him? End of discussion is correct. Posting misinformation is a no no in my book.
    1
  2489.  @1wannabee1  I thought we agreed the discussion is over. Let's move on.
    1
  2490. I thought they all landed in Cleveland, next to Elvis' plane.
    1
  2491.  @ashleylovestennis6476  Same with Amelia's plane. It was a fake too.
    1
  2492.  @davehagen2540  Hey whats with the gratuitous language.
    1
  2493. No proof , plain and simple. What causes a person to believe in things for which no evidence exists? Do you also believe blue cars are red?
    1
  2494. The passport was found before the collapses. Only a single passport was found at ground zero.
    1
  2495. There's hardly a consensus among pilots.
    1
  2496.  @krisaaron5771  I guess I missed your point. Sorry.
    1
  2497.  @krisaaron5771  "that landing safely is or should be a major part of anyone's plan" OK, I agree. Is your main point that should have been a red flag?
    1
  2498. I would say that if there's no difference in theory between analog and digital, then I would conclude that in practice most digital remasterings falls short of the ideal. Again and again I am struck by the "hardness" factor when I make my own piano recordings with a DAT machine, or listen to the majority of remastering of piano recordings. Digital tends to make pianos sound more like xylophones. So if in theory there ought not to be a discernible difference, in practice there usually is. Maybe it's just harder and more expensive to make first rate digital recordings than an LP? Nostalgia would have nothing to do with it for me as I have always wanted desperately to embrace the CD wholeheartedly, and dispense with old scratchy records.
    1
  2499. If God doesn't like gays, why did he create gay attraction?
    1
  2500.  @Lion-qv7ns  A good theory. But one without a proof.
    1
  2501. Well he mentioned that here. Some praise was due to TWA for allowing him to speak frankly about air safety. He stated in his book he thought TWA was tops, though. But their record through 1974 may have suggested otherwise.
    1
  2502.  @sandraswannell4170  Doubt he will since it's covered here.
    1
  2503. Absolutely
    1
  2504. You don't know that. The evidence doesn't fit in any case.
    1
  2505. It's a hero to be hateful?
    1
  2506.  @GrigRP  But being gay doesn't require harming anyone. A basic difference that doesn't register with you.
    1
  2507.  @GrigRP  What's your IQ? I said being gay doesn't require harming others. I'm gay but I don't spread diseases. Nice try.
    1
  2508.  @GrigRP  OK, so you're a depraved sociopath. We all have our flaws. No wonder Uganda's most celebrated mass murderer is your hero.
    1
  2509.  RichLoves FNAF  You don't have a rational case against gay orientation. To begin with, you probably equate gay with b--t sex. Am I right?
    1
  2510. How does consensual sex destroy lives?
    1
  2511.  @fornax5798  Or just people who wish to remain single. Indeed, the logic is twisted.
    1
  2512.  @kaiser8912  You are embracing man's inhumanity to man.
    1
  2513.  @rivvy2138  Nothing is inherently wrong with it. It's people imposing their views on others that's the problem. e.g. life in prison for being gay. THATS a problem. Maybe the president of Uganda needs to start minding his own business.
    1
  2514.  @rivvy2138  Well if you put a gay man in prison for life just for being gay, isn't that the ultimate form of imposing of your views onto someone?
    1
  2515. Almost a match for the Big Lie.
    1
  2516. No surprise there. Hatred is a big hang up for God. Perfect Beings aren't supposed to hate, are they?
    1
  2517.  @stopcensoring.7959  Can't get enough of this forum can you. It allows you to vent your rage, yet do so with an air of respectability.
    1
  2518.  @stopcensorship7705  I never said rage was your exclusive domain.
    1
  2519.  @denniswakabayashi9000  That is a good point for sure. It may be objected that this is a mere technicality, as the real point is that the genotype doesn't HAVE to be from the same parent. It is THIS fact that makes the embryo fundamentally different from, say, a skin cell. Now, maybe I have that science wrong. But let's look at the bigger picture. This kind of technical objection is precisely parallel to the "biological argument" made by so many pro-lifers. Do these kinds of technical consideration really tell us all we need to decide the abortion question. Doesn't having or not having this thing called a brain matter AT ALL? It shows IMO the extreme difficulty in coming up with absolute proofs for either side. There will probably never be an absolute proof that all sensible people MUST agree with.
    1
  2520. Shows you have a very wide ranging perspective! "In order to reach a truly objective point of view (on any topic)" Ah, but I'm afraid that this may not be realistic for the abortion question. IMO there are just too many layers for an "objective proof." I would love to be proven wrong. But after much reflection, I agree with philosopher Loren Lomasky that the issue is intractable. If you ever come across such an absolute proof, lease let me know. One other observation. The "right to control your own body" argument seems reasonable on the face of it, and I often use it myself. But if you really think about is, as you have, like almost any concept, it begins to breaks down when subject to strict scrutiny. So a good example are co-joined twins. Let's call them A and B. Let's say if A demands B be separated from her, A will survive but B won't. Does A have the right to remove B from her body? Whatever the answer to this difficult situation, virtually any pregnant woman would surely pause for a great while before uttering that cliche in this context. It shows the real point, or the more overriding point, is that this argument DEPENDS on viewing the fetus as a non-person. Otherwise A above would not be hesitating to kill her twin sister. So yet again we see controversy and complication on many different layers when looking at such a seeming simple question as abortion.
    1
  2521.  @denniswakabayashi9000  OK, we can drop the word person from this. But at some point, doesn't the biology say, here's this organism. It's human. Is that valid? And if so, when does that occur?
    1
  2522.  @denniswakabayashi9000  If you have the time, I welcome a more detailed deconstruction of the pro-life argument that human life or a human being begins at conception. Doesn't biology at least tell us the zygote/embryo is at least a human organism on some level? To me, it profoundly misses the point. But I usually grant the validity of this argument because I haven't found a definitive objection to it.
    1
  2523.  @panchostake6837  Unless I missed it, one basic question that I have not seen you address is, what is the moral status of the unborn? Where is the objective proof, for example, that biological membership in the human species is more relevant to moral status than, say, having a brain? The brain does not exist right away. It takes a few weeks to form, as best I know. This is what I mean about the difficulty with objective proof. It is ultimately a subjective call what criteria gives a living entity moral status. Science cannot determine that all by itself. cheers
    1
  2524.  @panchostake6837  I appreciate your reply. I think you are just. confirming my view. When you write "if there is no 'proof' that the new ALIVE being reaches 'moral status' at a specific point, there is no absolute proof either..." That is indeed my main argument. There is no such thing as a purely scientific based proof of what constitutes the beginning of moral status. ". . . 'moral status,. For what I read on your reply, it is a construct out of subjectivity..." And as such, by definition there can be no absolute scientific proof when human life acquires the moral status that such give it stringent protection under the law. "...but Rights alone can NOT exist without a LIFE. This makes LIFE alone intrinsically much more valuable." I tend to agree that life has SOME intrinsic value. But this fact alone doesn't provide in itself a proof that this value rises to the level of moral status that you and I have. Your arguments are forceful, and indeed carry a lot of weight. But for me they fall short of a convincing proof. Let me also bring in the Golden Rule, if I might. The Golden Rule is often an effective test of whether one's behavior is justified. For me personally, I do not see a violation of this widely held standard, had my parents chosen to abort me. Why should it, any more than their not having chosen to have intercourse on the night that led to my conception. In both cases, the outcome is exactly the same: I wouldn't be here. And I would never have been aware of having been an embryo. This is primarily why I see the pro life arguments as hopelessly academic. They are a product often of religious dogma, or symbolic considerations that have no relevant consequences to human suffering. What matters to me is, has the Golden Rule been violated; have human beings capable of higher suffering actually suffered? If you don't even know you exist, this is academic and not a realistic, tangible harm. And that's just my worldview, and opinion. There is no objective way to refute or prove this.
    1
  2525. ​ @panchostake6837  Thanks again for your continued arguments. A few more thoughts here, as I am not really into private discussions. Below are just a few more reflections offered in a tentative spirit. No replies expected. panchostake6837: "Furthermore, the 'moral status' continues to come across as a social construct." Me: This raises the question whether it can be proved anything has "intrinsic" value. How might you try to convince a reasonable person that value isn't merely a human or social construct too, but an objective fact? If it is self-evident in your view, that must be further argued, as I don't think it's fair to say that it's obviously self-evident to every sensible person. Certainly it has been debated by some of the great philosophers. panchostake6837: 4) "Also, LIFE can still exist without 'Moral Status'...but 'Moral Status' can NOT exist without a LIFE. This alone confirms once again, that LIFE alone is intrinsically of much higher value, than 'Moral Status' or any other social construct." Me: This form of "antecedent" argument doesn't seem self-evident on first reflection. The idea that if A came before B, A has more intrinsic value seems at odds with many examples: are the notes of a scale more intrinsically valuable than, say, a great work of music? Certainly, most people I know would say the intrinsic value depends not on the antecedent property of the 12-tone scale (for example) but on the finished product that we listen to, even if we admit there can be, say, no works of tonal music without the existence of pitch values. As another example, let's take something necessary for human life. Say, lipids. If you took some lipids, for example, and destroyed them, does that call for the same criminal penalty as murder just because you can't have human life without lipids? if you had a choice of destroying some lipids, or killing a human, wouldn't you choose not to destroy the human, precisely because we see the human as having more value, intrinsic or otherwise, than some antecedent component of human life? Please feel free to disagree or tear my thinking to shreds if necessary, if you feel like continuing that is.
    1
  2526.  @panchostake6837  One further point. One might reasonably argue that, contrary to your view (or fact, if you must,) that since B depends on A, therefore A has greater value, why might not it instead be additive? That is, B is something that has all the properties of A, but ADDS additional intrinsic value, then you get something of higher intrinsic value than A alone. Is there some objective rule that disallows this? Similarly, as above, the twelve pitches upon which western tonal music is based should in theory have ADDED intrinsic value when arranged according to the rules of a Mozart symphony. Just thinking aloud. I don't know if there's an objective answer to this.
    1
  2527.  @panchostake6837  ". . .Human LIFE alone CAN exist without rights, but Human Rights alone (i.e. Bodily Autonomy) can NOT exist without a LIFE?" Let me agree with you for argument's sake. Human life has intrinsic value. But I would also say that human life endowed with a complex brain has MORE intrinsic value. (Why wouldn't it?) Arguably trees may have intrinsic value as well. So, having some level of intrinsic value is not in itself a moral proof for absolute protection from harm. If you think otherwise, I would be happy to reconsider.
    1
  2528.  @1wannabee1  You're right. If the building was "in serious danger of collapsing," who in their right mind would rush in to plant explosives? That should tell you Silverstein meant pull out the people from the building, which is precisely what they did. "Pull" by the way is not a demolition term for explosives. This is simply another concoction of the truth mvt with its endless stream of bad ideas and uncritical theorizing. The idea that Silverstein would blow the whole plot on national TV is another example.
    1
  2529.  @1wannabee1  In demolition jargon, it means pull down with cables. That's obviously not what happened, and not not what he meant. Did you see any cables? The "proof" is that at that point, about 2:30p, they started to do just that. As in this fireman quote, who even used the word "pull" himself: "I just remember it was tremendous, tremendous fires going on. Finally they pulled us out. They said all right, get out of that building because that 7, they were really worried about. They pulled us out of there and then they regrouped everybody on Vesey Street, between the water and West Street." -Richard Banaciski Could I be wrong? Yes, there's no absolute certainty in interpreting people's word. Pull it does indeed sound suspicious on the face of it. But it proves nothing about controlled demolition. A casual use of a two word phrase subject to differing meanings proves nothing.
    1
  2530.  @1wannabee1  The other thing that simply doesn't add up is, Silvertein stated the reason to "pull it" was because there was so much loss of life already. Please explain why anyone would order a controlled demolition for the purpose of saving lives when all you have to do is get everyone out of the way. This is another example of flawed thinking IMO. "Please dont try to play with words" That's another indication of what kind of thinker you are. There is only one way to interpret an ambiguous phrase: your way. This is the kind of absolutist black and white thinking one expects from dogma. You have all the answers and everyone else is an ignoramus. Sorry, that's not how serious truth investigation works.
    1
  2531.  @timshea4279  Tim, thanks for those quotes. Unfortunately it seems Mark Roberts took down most of his huge wtc7lies pages, and I can no longer find some of the best firemen quotes. There was one in particular where they say the building was "groaning." Do you happen to have that one?
    1
  2532.  @klif4755  Yeah I mean, I can go as far as understanding why some people will hold the parents responsible. But signing a petition?? So if I accidentally run a red light, should there be a national petition to make sure I am arrested? It's beyond nuts. And where is the corresponding outrage at the zoo for having glaring holes in its safety? By never mentioning that, it shows again the one-sided obsession of these posters.
    1
  2533. But it didn't survive the collapses because it was found before the collapses happened.
    1
  2534.  @Larry26-f1w  They were crushed into small fragments. Why is that so mysterious?
    1
  2535. I don't think it's always meant to be, but the consequences are often effectively just that.
    1
  2536. That's not true for commercial. Commercial flights kill very few. For example, excluding commuter/regional aircraft, on US airlines every year there are some 8-10 million flight segments. There has been but a SINGLE fatality since 2001. I think you are mixing apples and oranges in your numbers. Flying is FAR safer today than in 1977. Consider how many years ago these major airlines last killed anyone: BA- 1976 (46 years ago), AF 14 years ago, AA 21, United 21, Air Canada 39, LH about 30, Qantas 59 years, Swiss(Air) 24 years, KLM 45, Delta 30, jetBlue never You get the picture. If this had been, say, 1980 these numbers would have been BA 4 years, AF, 4 years, AA 1 year, United 2 years, Air canada 2 years, LH 3 years, Qantas 27 years, Swissair 1 year, KLM 3 years, Delta 7 years ago. No comparison at all. Flying is orders of magnitude safer today than then.
    1
  2537. But can you show with substantial evidence that bigger is more dangerous? That wuold be hard to do in the case of the present generation of widebodies.
    1
  2538. Respect is a two way thing.
    1
  2539. And the McMichaels' biggest mistake was to pursue in an illegal citizen's arrest while displaying a deadly weapon. Not wise.
    1
  2540. Amen to you, but this forum is about 911, not the place for religious sermons. Thank you for your understanding.
    1
  2541. @@politelyvulgarvernacular Trying desperately to assert your superiority. No one is falling for it except you.
    1
  2542. Agreed, But how does the BEA report implicate the airline? That's what I can't figure out.
    1
  2543. I don't really know for sure, as I am not familiar with every last JKR quote on trans issues. But it seems to me she is right about many claims. For example, isn't she being sensible in saying violent trans women should be sent to male and not female prisons?
    1
  2544. Isn't that a double standard? Kenya doesn't want the West forcing gay rights on you. But Kenya wants to force their standards on gays. Is there any real difference in principle?
    1
  2545. I think it's rare for a single accident to bring down an airline, even if it's their fault.
    1
  2546. Air currents.
    1
  2547.  @bengatewood3197  Due, more than likely to the same effect as a thermal, a temperature inversion that draws air upwards. Look at the photo of the impact plume, and you can literally see what appears to be air being sucked upwards into the smoke plume. This is not just theory. The same thing happened to USAir 427. Paper and insulation, and thin wispy fabric fell on a golf course 2 miles away. This was also the only debris found 8 miles away - light stuff only.
    1
  2548. I'm just wondering if you agree the conclusions of this report are enough to satisfy you that the election wasn't stolen.
    1
  2549.  @stopcensorship7705  At first I thought you were mentally challenged. Then I thought you were a troll. Now I realize you are a genuine lunatic.
    1
  2550. The better solution is, use the bathroom of the sex you most look like.
    1
  2551. That was a Delta plane that landed in Cleveland. You have no proof flight 93 landed there. What else is new with the truth movement & Co. They cannot stand the idea of evidence. The less of it the better. Go for it.
    1
  2552. Another absurd comment.
    1
  2553.  @thematic3893  What is the most regressive part of our philosophy?
    1
  2554.  @thematic3893  You did not. You said "we see your philosophy are regressive." I asked you what was the most oppressive part of that philosophy. What is that, in your mind? That we support gay rights? That we allegedly don't know what a woman is? I can't read your mind.
    1
  2555.  @thematic3893  I don't know why you think it's cute to lie, You said virtually nothing specific above except you mentioned women, and of course gays. Either say what you mean or don't bother responding. Your responses are not the way to have a conversation.
    1
  2556.  @thematic3893  I'm fine with people not wanting to live in the West. My main gripe is the use of violence against disliked groups. That's what I mean in particular about more enlightened. We in the US have many more problems, but the principle of nonviolence, at least domestically, is more ingrained here. No one here proposes the death penalty or life in prison for gays. If that's a distinctly African value - the police beating up gays, harassing them, then so be it. I don't think we should be asked to respect violence, either in the West or elsewhere.
    1
  2557.  @thematic3893  Are these Ugandan values?: "State violence has become normalized in Uganda’s capital. Exactly a year ago, on Nov. 18, 2020, opposition leader Robert Kyagulanyi Ssentamu, known as “Bobi Wine,” was arrested in the country’s eastern district of Luuka for violating COVID-19 rules while campaigning for the presidency against incumbent President Yoweri Museveni. In the ensuing unrest, with nationwide protests, police and soldiers killed at least 54 people—many of whom weren’t even protesting. Yet no security officers have been prosecuted for their actions, and no compensation has been paid. There are only the quiet tears of victims’ families and, if you know where to look, the bullet holes in the walls." -Foreign Policy November 18, 2021
    1
  2558. Elvis directed the whole operation. Confirmed by several Youtube videos.
    1
  2559. It was a good story except they forgot to include the fact there was a paraplegic and a pregnant woman among the passengers. So this lady in her 80s suffers a fall, needs to go to the hospital and arrives a few minutes late, and you won't even answer their calls and emails, and strand her on a tiny island inn the middle of nowhere? Sorry, I will never use this cruise line.
    1
  2560. Wrong, they collapsed due to the pull of gravity, just as is always the case with controlled demolition. That's why they look alike. Ask any CD expert, and they will confirm this for you.
    1
  2561.  @Larry26-f1w  Oh yes, we have a troll convention every anniversary with Larry. And he keeps asking us when he thinks he might actually begin making a profit from his insurance policies, give that the payouts all fell far short of the costs in rebuilding the new trade center.
    1
  2562. I've heard this claim before, but I believe no one has ever produced a proof there were 500 cameras. Can you point me to an official document or documentation of the 500 cameras?
    1
  2563. Yes, but not everybody is convinced the judge acted wrongly, so its questionable how much he "undermined" democracy.
    1
  2564. Stop the Big Lie. Provide the proof or shut up. It's that simple.
    1
  2565.  @danielfranklin7179  If that's your entire response, it indicates you don't understand the nature of evidence. Perhaps that's another reason you are a Trump supporter. Like father like son.
    1
  2566. I think Palm 90 is a bad example: they were at the time not really a known quantity = stay away. A better way to look at it is that one cannot compare today to back then. Excluding the regionals, there has been but a single death on US airlines in the last 20 years. In the 70s the death risk was a respectable 1 chance in 4 million per flight. In the last 20 years it fell to 1 chance in 10 billion. Meaning it was some 200 times more dangerous back then. If you are an average driver, the equivalent risk is driving 50 feet. So if you want to go from NY to Chicago, there is no way your ride will be safer in a car.
    1
  2567.  @stopcensorship7705  If that's the case, then gays aren't really gay.
    1
  2568. But apparently they have the luxury of persecuting gays.
    1
  2569. Well, until this country can get its act together and stop convicting innocent defendants of murders they didn't commit, we don't deserve to have the death penalty.
    1
  2570.  @paulstone472  Of course no system is perfect, and inevitably there will always be unfortunate mistakes. But having watched and read about many cases, it's clear that as a country we haven't even come close to a good faith effort to make sure juries know basic principles, such as: never ever convict on the basis of a single witness; or the proper way to do photo line ups, and so on. I'd give our justice system a very bad grade when it comes to having a uniform system that follows basic protocol. Not even close.
    1
  2571. They're struggling for clean water and food, but waste their time persecuting gays. Tell us about it.
    1
  2572. That's one way to see it, absolutely. But is being in prison for life, especially if it ends up being isolation, better than being dead? Not so sure of that.
    1
  2573. It's not a question of right or wrong. It's an opinion.
    1
  2574.  @stopcensorship7705  Absolutely, but I highly doubt you would return the favor. Let's test that. I believe gays should be respected. Did I make a valid opinion too? Let's hear you cough up an unconditional "yes."
    1
  2575.  @stopcensorship7705  No, that's not true at all. IMO you did nothing to earn respect, if I may say so. But, I'd still grant it to you, however reluctantly.
    1
  2576.  @stopcensorship7705  There may be a chemical trace of validity to that opinion.
    1
  2577.  @stopcensorship7705  "your opinion is still not valid." It is to some.
    1
  2578.  @MandNsvideos665  That's OK. But I would make a distinction between respect and civility. We here in the US by and large have learned to be civil with our rivals and adversarys, be they political or otherwise. Now, I don't know the answer to this. But is this standard in Ugandan society too? Would you agree to shake hands with a gay man after a debate, the way we would, for example?
    1
  2579.  @stopcensorship7705  Are you civil towards gay men?
    1
  2580.  @stopcensorship7705  Does that include gay male civilians? C'mon, answer the question.
    1
  2581.  @stopcensorship7705  Me? Lifestyle choices? I never said anything about that. Being gay is not a lifestyle. I'm gay, but I hate gay bars, hate drinking, have never done the bum thing ever, and haven't had a sexual encounter in decades. As gays go, I think you'd actually like me.
    1
  2582.  @stopcensorship7705  I'm glad you are civil to gay civilians.
    1
  2583.  @stopcensorship7705  Saying what my lifestyle DOESN'T include is not telling anyone what my lifestyle choices DO include. Furthermore, it's precisely the lifestyle choices that gay men allegedly make that concerns you. Or do you not care what they do in private?
    1
  2584.  @stopcensorship7705  "I'm against "gae civilians". " No problem, I wouldn't stew over it.
    1
  2585.  @stopcensorship7705  You're the one that introduced the phrase "lifestyle choices." That's your term, not mine. I'm important enough, apparently, for you to keep paying attention to me. (I don't know how to insert that little laughing emoji.)
    1
  2586.  @stopcensorship7705  Could you show me how to do that?
    1
  2587.  @stopcensorship7705  Fatherless? He's still around at age 89 and doing pretty well. Nice try. There is no effective therapy for gay attraction. Fatherless theory is not science. But I'm delighted to see my importance being acknowledged by your concern for my health. Very thoughtful of you. I've rarely received so much attention on a Youtube thread. Keep those posts coming.
    1
  2588.  @stopcensorship7705  Why do I need a mirror when I have you? Keep them posts coming.
    1
  2589. I wonder if the initial surprise event at take off so startled the crew that it might have affected their judgement temporarily. Maybe this is also why they didn't start to talk about their concern until a few hours later?
    1
  2590.  @MsRB-dz4yf  Even if Bryan could have called the police, his actions were way below the threshold of a life sentence.
    1
  2591.  @awesomebeautiful8782  What's up with this weird habit of posting information everyone already knows.
    1
  2592.  @walterhunter3353  I already did. They are preparing for a hearing on the subject.
    1
  2593.  @Nitruix  We all have a dark side. It's just that some are darker than others.
    1
  2594. That's about as absurd a comment as it gets.
    1
  2595.  @alfredindy8058  But, the standard of reasonable doubt means we cannot know for sure if the shooting was malice murder or instinctive self-defense.
    1
  2596.  @alfredindy8058  Thank you for your reply. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about self-defense under the law. Scenario A: Travis kills out of malice (the actual verdict) Scenario B: Travis spontaneously shoots because Arbery turns left, as we see in the video, and confronts Travis, and may well have grabbed his gun before the 1st shot was fired, as the forensic witness testified at trial. Would you call Scenario B malice murder? Or is it possibly motivated not by malice, but by instinctive self-defense? Now you could argue that creating reckless endangerment in the 1st place amounts to malice. But if we focus solely at the exact moment Travis pulled the trigger at that exact time, he still may have reacted instinctively, as the police surely would have. To me, that would make the shooting effectively 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. More thoughts welcome.
    1
  2597.  @PresidentCamacho2024  Or nano particles.
    1
  2598. Which truth is that, life in prison for nonviolent behavior?
    1
  2599. Orwell was right, just 40 years late.
    1
  2600. Indeed, supporting life in prison for non violent behavior.
    1
  2601.  @stopcensorship7705  If you're talking life sentences drug offenses, I'm with you. I'm against both. Hope you are too. If you are a big gung ho freedom/liberty type, that means getting the government out of people's bedrooms too.
    1
  2602. You are absolutely wrong on this one,
    1
  2603. ​ @adelinalva3906  You're going against the nature of the real world.
    1
  2604. The irony is that Van Zanten was at the forefront of the newly emerging CRM philosophy, having just returned from a CRM conference on behalf of KLM. I guess stress did away with his fledgling new impulses to treat every caution as real threat?
    1
  2605.  @BrokenSoul79x  Because there was total chaos that morning, and because contrary to common belief, most of the bases or standby planes had been removed since the cold war. Who ever said they wouldn't eject? Doing something this dangerous could certainly kill you whether you eject or not. She said "potentially" a suicide mission.
    1
  2606. No proof you can't have free fall for part of the collapse sequence. If you have a scientific proof, let's see it.
    1
  2607. He did say this. But ugly as it is, when you sense your life is in danger, and you are forced to shoot, your worst side may come out. It doesn't rise to the level of a proof that Travis wanted this man dead no matter what.
    1
  2608.  StopCensorship4--1  Many African eat dirt. So stop lying please.
    1
  2609. Mach 4 ct'd, We also have the issue of sonic boom. Such an event would create an unbelievable boom, which did not occur. -Fritz Meyer. My point is not to discredit his entire statement to investigators. I think he genuinely thought he saw ordnance. The part I question is, why did he and his fellow co-pilots all agree the fireball hit by the streak dropped to the ocean in just 10 seconds, giving 14 seconds for the entire accident. It's a legitimate question. If you're not a bad-mannered bully.
    1
  2610. How did they cause the accident? Not even the BEA blames them.
    1
  2611. Why should I or anyone respect a man who believes in executing gays? Unlike Musevini, do you uphold the Golden Rule, that widely held standard that most religions allege to embrace? Do you have a sense of basic humanity?
    1
  2612. "completely disrespectful towards other cultures.... " Well it's debatable if asking two questions = disrespect. "stay out of one another's business." That would mean two things to me in this context. -The West butts out and minds its own business -Ugandans minds their own business and leave gays alone.
    1
  2613. "It is homophobic to claim sexuality is a choice." Not always.
    1
  2614. Yes. Blaine continues the tradition of underestimating human cleverness. What is sentience? What is it made of? Blaine has not a clue.
    1
  2615. A murderous legend to be sure: Uganda's most celebrated mass killer, complete with body bags, torture chambers, waiting to mow down the protesters.54 to be exact last time 'round. Is it any wonder he looked the other way when the death penalty was proposed for gays back in 2009. He called them terrorists. One would think someone who mows down his own citizens has a bit more in common with terrorists than people who love one another.
    1
  2616.  @Angelum_Band  Thank you for your reply. I totally acknowledge it. The difference is, Obama's targets were military, not civilian, even though many civilians died (how many is hard to know) But a recent study by the Brookings Institute estimated about 800 total under the Obama years. Musevevi's bloody toll is more likely over one million. That's apples versus cherries. There's a big difference between an anti-terrorist drone mission and mowing down your own people. The reports of torture continue, as in this item: "KAMPALA, March 22 (Reuters) - Ronald Ssegawa said Ugandan security agents pulled him off the streets in January last year, burned him and pulled out his fingernails. His crime: supporting the opposition. The 22-year-old is one of hundreds of government critics and opposition supporters detained and tortured in the last three years, especially around the 2021 presidential vote, U.S-based Human Rights Watch (HRW) said on Tuesday." Bobi Wine was also tortured. Even the US's very own tinpot dictator, Donald Trump, didn't do that. Though the recent attack on Paul Pelosi is a scary reminder of what could happen here too.
    1
  2617.  @Angelum_Band  My apologies for replying. That was before I realized you are a troll. And a pretty boring one at that.
    1
  2618.  @Angelum_Band  I'm actually trilingual. I can speak all three at the same time while playing the violin and throwing darts with my hands tied behind my back.
    1
  2619.  @bullymaguire8380  If Bush said gays are disgusting, the same people who post here would be jubilant. I seem to be the only one here black or white, who cares about body counts. You seem to only care about what color people's skin is.
    1
  2620. Many times. Most planes are not reconstructed. Examples: AA 191, PSA 182, Turkish 981. Show me the reconstructions for those planes. Reconstructions are only done when there's a major mystery as to what caused the crash. Another example of brainwashing from the truth movement.
    1
  2621. Your silence confirms you are wrong.
    1
  2622.  @CATSWITHKYLA  This plane was at its crash site. You haven't an ounce of proof it wasn't. And also witnessed by at least a dozen people. I can give you their names, as they were all published. If you don't learn the facts, you are little better than a child blabbing away, spewing ignorance at every term. Hey, if you want to make the Truth movement, as well as yourself, look as loony and stupid deranged as possible, keep blabbing away.
    1
  2623. What would you do if you were gay?
    1
  2624.  StopCensorship2-wh3nm  Because I have faith that one day you might actually see the light.
    1
  2625.  StopCensorship2-wh3nm  The point is that genetic or not, most people cannot choose their orientation. Just as we don't choose to be sad, or cannot decide to like coffee ice cream if we hate it. This is the profound truth you always have trouble with. Desires and attractions are just there, and while we can sometimes push ourselves to like something, there's no guarantee we will succeed.
    1
  2626.  @thematic3893  Hello again, That's part of the problem. You don't seem to understand what gay means. Gay attraction is not chosen. People are gay because of the same reason people are straight. When confronted with these powerful feelings, the average person will feel this is a huge part of their life. This isn't rocket science. It's the same reason people eat. Hunger. It's not chosen any more than sexual attraction.
    1
  2627.  @Angelum_Band  I can understand the urge to troll. But surely you can do a better job than that.
    1
  2628.  @Angelum_Band  "Evidently you like to think you are not in control of your life." In Uganda, you are not in control of your life when you end up in a body bag. Or torture chamber.
    1
  2629.  @Angelum_Band  "Yes, let's start by answering the question: Why is Paul Pelosi ashamed to come out?" Because it would reveal the truth that MAGA is a gay-led, gay-run ruse to lure in Trunp supporters, whom we all know are about as intelligent as Tiny Tim. There are other reasons too that I'm not privy to sharing.
    1
  2630.  @Angelum_Band  "I live in USA not Uganda." Do you have proof of that?
    1
  2631.  @thematic3893  "some people don’t even break the law and they end up there, yet I don’t hear you making noise about them. " I'm not sure which people you are referring to. Are you talking about victims of US bombings?
    1
  2632.  @thematic3893  I am not under any contract with anyone to comment on all the atrocities of the world. We all tend to comment on what interests us. I came across the video with Museveni because I'm interested in gay issues and it popped up on my Youtube sidebar. So I reacted to that, and then was struck by posters using one of the worst African dictators in recent memory as a spokesperson for anti-gay views. That's appalling to me. Nothing hollow or plastic about that. We all choose what we want to talk about. cheers
    1
  2633. As is Trump, and annoying Youtube posters. They amount to zilch.
    1
  2634.  @Melly3112-ox3ey  Not sure, but many EU countries have a 30 year max on murder.
    1
  2635.  @ngc-fo5te  I don't think she/he means the judge.
    1
  2636. That's about the only virtue of majoring in bedroom management.
    1
  2637.  @MsMookie513  As usual, sheer stupidity did them in, in this case the brainless lawyer.
    1
  2638. Or to his own people. Torture, mass murder of his citizens, fraudulent elections. Those are his values.
    1
  2639. "Ad hominem warfare at its best." Guilty to some extent. But I'm wondering why you don't address it to exile, since he is ad hominum master. I usually behave myself until told I'm a Nazi Pig. Hope you see the difference.
    1
  2640. "The unborn child has rights too" There is no consensus or objective proof of that claim. .
    1
  2641.  @Draper11  OK, enter this search term into Google: "Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 and 9/11's United Flight 93" Will take you to comparison photos.
    1
  2642.  @Draper11  And we have this from Northwest flight 710 "The airliner's fuselage emerged from the black cloud minus its entire right wing and with only a large stub of the left wing still attached. For a few seconds it continued in level flight ... and then it began an almost vertical plunge to earth, trailing smoke and fire like a spent rocket. It struck a field at 618 MPH. Mud, dirt, grass, shrubs and mottled snow were tossed 250 ft into the air. The debris fell back around a muddy crater forty feet wide. From this gaping wound in the earth poured smouldering smoke. There were pieces of wreckage around the perfectly formed rim. Some other metal fragments were hurled fifteen hundred feet away. But the one hundred foot fuselage itself had disappeared entirely. In the crater, buried twelve feet under this smoking cauldron, was what was left of Northwest Airlines flight 710 - and the 33 men, 21 woman and 8 children and 1 infant aboard. ... The residue of flight 710 was something even the most veteran investigators had never come across before. There were no bodies."
    1
  2643.  @Draper11  You're welcome. I get frustrated with the truth movement types who call us "the sheeple" or imply the rest of us are so stup-d, so I make that assumption too often and overreact sometimes. Sorry. I hope you found the pictures of Ethiopian flight 302. Even if it doesn't convince you, at least it's a start.
    1
  2644.  @Draper11  I guess I am seeing a problem with your logic, which may be totally my fault. If we agree that except for very rare disappearances like Malaysian over the Indian Ocean, all plane crashes leave wreckage somewhere. So that would be true if F93 was deliberately crashed by the hijackers, but just as true if it were also shot down. So how would a shoot down be exempt from leaving wreckage - if that's what you're saying.
    1
  2645.  @nevaoswald70  Do you think everyone was fooled except you? We are all id-ots and the NTSB are all id-ots. Got it.
    1
  2646. That just about sums up the truth movement. Not even the government can mach it, not only for its dishonesty, but for its passion for distortion, reckless scholarship and shockingly poor judgement.
    1
  2647.  @teresawicks-kq3bq  Another poster who lacks good manners.
    1
  2648. Maybe because they are.
    1
  2649. Totally understandable. I myself differ, having also been abused for a time. I think it should be on a case by case basis. One reason I feel this way is that there's a myth, I believe, that every adult out there intrinsically knows that touching a child will likely lead to emotional devastation. Not so. I think the death penalty should only happen, if at all, to people who know they are causing terrible harm. That's too lenient for some, but I think within reasonable debate.
    1
  2650. So you have a fancy for mass murderers. Is your favorite law also the one that calls for executing gays?
    1
  2651.  @brianhoffmann1858  Unless the gun was already pointed at you.
    1
  2652. Most of it is now stored at the flight 93 memorial.
    1
  2653.  @gpuckit  They recovered 95% of the plane.
    1
  2654. To the uninformed.
    1
  2655. The truth according to Uganda's most notorious mass murderer. That really adds credibility to your message.
    1
  2656.  @mennakitty1  Hey I'm just saying, using thugs and mass murderers as spokespeople for you views isn't helping your case. What makes you think I can't handle your opinion? Does the Quran also support torture, killing peaceful protesters by the dozen, and fraud elections? Go for it.
    1
  2657.  @Kudz_LastmanStanding  The bible was written by ancient men. No God in His right mind would deliberately create a world with so much suffering, and then blame it all on us. That's all the proof you need to see the real truth.
    1
  2658.  @Kudz_LastmanStanding  Here's yet another puzzle, though not a complete proof. Why did God invent homosexual attraction if He was against homosexual behavior? One can go on and on with puzzle and contradiction after puzzle and contradiction.
    1
  2659.  @Kudz_LastmanStanding  If God were real, He would have foreseen which people would misuse their free will, and eliminated them from his creation. No mater how you slice it, evil is God's work. He could have left evil out of his creation. If real, He created it when he had an option not too. Just as he created gay attraction. Why did he do that? It doesn't matter whether one chooses God. Under His creation, babies are blown up. Do they deserve this?
    1
  2660.  @Kudz_LastmanStanding  I respect the Ugandan people, and their right to dislike this "lifestyle" (which is another misnomer BTW.) My only issue is the fact they are subject to prison. In the last 13 years both the death penalty and life in prison have been proposed in Uganda for gays. This is in keeping with Museveni's penchant for murdering people he doesn't like. You don't have to like gays. But jailing them is an outrage by any decent standard.
    1
  2661. I agree. But the penalty can be reasonably questioned, as is the felony murder law, which to many is a travesty of justice.
    1
  2662. That describes him and probably most of the population of Uganda. They haven't reached the more enlightened view that you don't use violence against non-violence. Like the US government's foreign policies, they haven't mastered the art of minding your own business. It seems obvious enough to most Westerners. But apparently they still struggle with even basic notions of civil conduct.
    1
  2663. What you really mean is, God bless hatred: destroying gay lives just because you don't like them.
    1
  2664. And a criminal that tried to overthrow the government, and lets 1500 criminals go free, and takes away security for Bolton and others. This is what, doing the right thing?
    1
  2665. Because there exist good arguments both for and against the death penalty. It's a myth that all good and wise people should take your side.
    1
  2666. "Sanders found PETN rocket propellant" Not if you're scientific. He took pains to say in his 2nd book there was no confirmation this was rocket fuel. The results came back "constant with," the exact same wording, BTW, the NTSB used to describe the alleged adhesive residue match. From a scientific point of view then, rocket propellent is no more or no less likely than the 3M adhesive claim. Neither one was positively confirmed by anyone. -mindless ruminator
    1
  2667.  @andrewtaylor940  Agreed, they actually did put in some venting after the 1970 test, but without a total redesign of the floor, it was not possible to due this in the rear area. "There should have never been a pressure differential between the two spaces." Do you mean in normal flight?
    1
  2668. I think there has been progress, but it's not always linear. As Noam Chomsky recently said in an interview (one of his last, it would seem) in the US a women wasn't even legally a person as recently as the 1950s. We have seen the downfall of many bad men in positions of power - The Weinsteins, Cosbys, Epsteins, and many others. That would have been virtually unthinkable until very recently. There may be hope. As Steven Pinker observes, the overall trend towards a more moral world has been encouraging over many centuries and decades.
    1
  2669.  @EnriqueMateo0125  Well, QED
    1
  2670. As to F800, though I cannot rule out a missile, there are many problems with the missile arguments, including: - Mach 4 debris is not proven by primary radar hits - if the streak of light was missile, then the entire accident sequence would have been in the 12-20 second range, not the 30-50 range indicated by radar or witnesses evidence. -William Tobin's testimony indicating FBI's sabotage bias -Fred Meyer's repudiation of his and his co-pilots own testimony This leaves room for argument.
    1
  2671. I am not the person you are addressing. But I have come to see this as a case of twisted thinking directed more by raw emotion than due process. It's not only revenge time for blacks, but conscious-clearing for whites, and also I speculate that decent white folk have racism burnout and have little sympathy left for racist scum. The barely admitted to theme is that racism is a crime worse than murder. This is twisted, and may explain why people have lovingly approved maximum sentences, but turn the other way when lessor sentences are given for worse offenses. As with many crimes, the reaction is not based on due process and affirming basic principles of justice, but on what's in the ether at the time. The McMichaels are no doubt racist pigs. But they are being tried, not for their actual crimes, but as symbols of the entire history of the racist south and all its past lynchings.
    1
  2672. @@politelyvulgarvernacular Not that it bothers me, but your attempts to be funny aren't even funny. Let pro comics like me do the heavy lifting.
    1
  2673. @@politelyvulgarvernacular And now ma friend, ah have things to do. So have a delahtful evening.
    1
  2674.  @robert9674  And how is it you know that of all the hundreds of gods and religions and their variants currently being worshiped worldwide, yours is the true one?
    1
  2675. You could argue that case for both parties.
    1
  2676. And praising his beautiful skin.
    1
  2677. I have my doubts about both NF and SH. Chomsky and NF are also given to rather over the top statements from time to time. In this case, I think NF may be overlooking the meaning of SH's point. It's not necessarily the ex-Muslim fellow accords with SH's bias, but that we can not use the common argument he can be dismissed as not being well acquainted with the Muslim world, or merely an ignorant Westerner. To overlook this is to be be less inclined to try and make an effort to understand SH's nuances. Similarly, the idea we should be afraid to step into a college classroom because Harris accurately points out that using YOUNG children as explosives has become to an extent normalized, is not a necessary implication. This is also a pretty obvious exaggeration, as college students are generally not children; but more importantly, that "being expected" does not mean the risk is great, or great equally and everywhere. These are words not of nuance, IMO.
    1
  2678. You are a bot, automated or otherwise.
    1
  2679. Do you honestly think the government had anything to gain by crashing a plane into an empty field? Do you ever ask yourself these basic questions? Did the "War on Terror" depend on targeting grass? Seriously.
    1
  2680. The real question is, why should anyone be wasting valuable resources persecuting gays? Every dollar devoted to that means more poverty and more HIV.
    1
  2681.  @nickabbott319  And while he did something very exploitive and selfish, I don't think the punishment was warranted. Unless we want to say all teenage sex is rape unless you are both exactly the same age. Which is pretty absurd IMO, and in the opinion of most states now as well, New Hampshire coming within a hair's breath of legality in this case. To me this was not far short of a case of mass brainwashing.
    1
  2682. It no doubt seems that way to the unrigorous mind.
    1
  2683. Who knows. But he was mentally ill according to this mother. Maybe that affected his judgement?
    1
  2684. Supporting life in prison for gays is not only unwise, but a crime against humanity. It's man's inhumanity to man. Deal with that reality.
    1
  2685. Well we live in the age of who gives the slightest sh-t about quality anymore.
    1
  2686.  @imjustyler  But too bad he failed.
    1
  2687. Absolutely true. But 45's Big Lie is the magnum opus of them all.
    1
  2688. I would say, not necessarily. In Minnesota, 2nd degree manslaughter requires the accused "consciously takes chances" of causing death. Did she consciously take a reckless chance? Or was it purely accidental?
    1
  2689. The other untold story is that Turkish Airlines was also significantly to blame: just a few months before the crash, they made one final input (several, actually) that sealed its fate. As the authors of Destination Disaster put it, once this change was made, even "a sickly child" could have closed the door.
    1
  2690. Yes, we've heard that before. And?
    1
  2691. His lies cannot compare to the master of lies, poor sportsmanship, and head of domestic terrorism, you know who. The choice here is between civilization, and violence. Thugs versus democracy. Trump is a power hungry mad man. Are you really blind to the obvious?
    1
  2692.  @spencerhowell9094  Oh I agree with all that. But the cure is worse than the disease. Trump is the def facto head of domestic terrorism. His is the politics of the gun. He's in love with violence. He supports domestic violence groups. To support him means you support wrecking this country and turning it into a place where we loose even more of our freedoms. The white supremacists are inside the core institutions of the US. When the terrorists take over, we will see the illusion of freedom crumble. A white supremacist terrorist fascist state has no respect for freedom, except for themselves, and you , like most people, can't see it coming. Or worse, want it to come.
    1
  2693.  @stopcensorship7705  If it's this upsetting to you, there are therapists who can help you.
    1
  2694. I hope so too. But as we all should know, it's not the norm. It can take years and decades to heal. Maybe some people don't get that. But with hard work and determination, many women have got their lives back. She is in a position of strength because the whole world (well hopefully most of it) is in a sense supporting her. How many people have that luxury.
    1
  2695.  @juliamikhaylova8235  + I think you must have misread my meaning. The "luxury" is not "essential support," but the support of the WHOLE WORLD, or at least a huge part of it. That IS a luxury, because only a lucky few ever have that opportunity.
    1
  2696. This was neither a French plane or a French airline. Maybe you meant Turkish incompetence?
    1
  2697.  @patagualianmostly7437  Wrong. The man who closed the door closed it exactly according to procedure. Where are you getting your information from?
    1
  2698. "The door closer was not informed of the reason for the visual check (9:11.) I call that poor training." Sure, I agree that every little bit extra helps. With the benefit of hindsight we can always go down an extra layer or two, and point out a dozen little things that might have been done differently. But is it fair to use the term incompetence for a French baggage company that was not in the business of playing safety inspector? But even if so, this can hardly be considered one of the central causes of the crash. Maybe that's not what you meant. BTW the airline's incompetence went way beyond the FE's failure to look through the peep hole. This video just barely touches on it. To put it more bluntly, the airline tampered with the safety mechanisms, at most, a few months before the crash. This rogue maintenance made the aircraft far more dangerous than even the original design. No doubt that's why the airline and McDonnell Douglas both agreed to split the damages in an out of court settlement. This aspect of the crash has somehow been lost in the retelling, perhaps because not all the details came out until the trial.
    1
  2699. What does that mean?
    1
  2700. We don't know what God's law is, only the laws spelt out by ancient men who wrote the bible.
    1
  2701.  @thembagoss6814  "That's why I'm saying you're fool gay cannot produce any child," And you can't produce an original thought.
    1
  2702.  @thembagoss6814  I will happily do so if you can kindly explain why the bible recommends executing a cursing child. That doesn't sound like a very nice God, does it? It sounds a lot more like ancient men at a less evolved state of moral enlightenment.
    1
  2703.  @thembagoss6814  I want you to tell me why I should believe in a God who wants to execute children.
    1
  2704.  @thembagoss6814  Leviticus 20: 9 "For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death." That's your God speaking. No thank you.
    1
  2705. But most men are not rapists.
    1
  2706. I love it. She asks two questions, and it becomes a weapon. Strange how bias works.
    1
  2707.  @stopcensorship7705  So you admit that hormonal imbalance, and not choice, could be the cause of homosexuality. Your progress is slow but admirable.
    1
  2708.  @MilkmanEditsAL  It can only be a weapon if Musevini found the questions offensive. To the contrary, he seemed to enjoy answering them. Looks like he wanted to be canceled by your logic.
    1
  2709.  @stopcensorship7705  What would be the point of fixing it if it weren't the cause of being gay?
    1
  2710.  @stopcensorship7705  Did you or did you not admit hormonal imbalance might cause homosexuality? Please make up your mind.
    1
  2711.  @MilkmanEditsAL  That's in the eye of the beholder.
    1
  2712.  @joeguiffre7564  Just say No is about as intelligent as putting a sign in the grass saying "do not grow." Gays aren't interested in changing, so why say utterly useless things to them?
    1
  2713. It's a challenging question. Richard Wrangham has described males as "demonic." By which he means having a "violent temperament," due to innate biology. On the other hand we should all know from interacting with men and boys that many males are peaceful and mostly nonviolent. A sizeable portion - who knows what the numbers really are - are more or less decent. It's not, after all, as if women created morality all on their own. But I agree men's "sexual psychology" is far different than women's. When you combine that psychology to a criminally inclined person, you get rape. This is where the authors of "The Natural History of Rape" really skimped, in my reading of it at least. They failed to put in that last point clearly enough. This has lead to much confusion and condemnation of the book.
    1
  2714. Where has JKR claimed that trans women have a higher violent crime rate than other biological males?
    1
  2715. It doesn't really imply that, but it is nonetheless often assumed to mean that.
    1
  2716.  @Freefs1  I can only say, I am grateful sensible people prevailed here. God forbid if the Youtube mob were running society.
    1
  2717.  @haydricht6899  I'm looking at this from the outside. Why did the articles mention the wiki arbitration board sided with her? Were any of your edits removed by her? Thanks
    1
  2718. Why should they?
    1
  2719.  @alicianelson1252  Yes, I agree. I misspoke a little above. One of my main criticisms of rape culture theory is the bizarre idea that teaching women how not to get raped is rape culture. This is just dogma, as almost by definition, informing young college-bound women of how to take sensible precautions will have the effect of further reducing rape. Isn't that what we all want?
    1
  2720.  @alicianelson1252  Yes, they can go hand and hand. I think the criticism of "teaching women how not to be raped" has a definite kernel of truth in that we should not be putting the onus on women (or on any of us as potential victims). But it doesn't follow that wishing to educate women is necessarily putting the onus on them. I don't mean to pick too much on rape culture. Every mass popular mvt has its accompanying excesses. This is one of them I think.
    1
  2721. Yes, that's my logic too. The unasked assumption is, does suicidal depression necessarily render you incompetent? The law requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Where is this proof? cheers
    1
  2722. It was a blimp on an on overnight positioning flight.
    1
  2723.  @kojithegermanshepherd7056  Leviticus 20:9 "If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death." I'm having a little trouble with this. Can you help me understand how those words could come from an alleged wise, loving and compassionate Being?
    1
  2724.  @kojithegermanshepherd7056  Yeah, but it's the Bible. So what do we do about that? Do the rational thing and conclude that ancient man wrote the bible.
    1
  2725.  @kojithegermanshepherd7056  With or without Jesus' love.
    1
  2726. One of the powerplants was found on the street at ground zero before the collapses.
    1
  2727. You're right to an extent. I don't like this man's tone either. But this idea of defining people only as group members isn't helpful. We are individuals, not groups. It's group thinking that is the very foundation of racism. Guilt by association is as flawed a morality as there ever was. Should African countries who enslaved their own, and contributed to the Atlantic slavery also pay reparations? Justice is about holding a person responsible for what she did, not her great great great grand parents.
    1
  2728. So let me get this straight. People (like me) who provide direct evidence of their claims (like I just did) proving that you were wrong (no proof positive) and I was right ("consistent with" doesn't = proof) are trolls? Did I get that right? You lose, and are exposed for a know-it-all big shot bully who can't have an intelligent and friendly discussion, but is instead unable to behave more maturely than a teenager in rebellion. I just proved it. Give me YOUR Sanders direct quote. Go for it.
    1
  2729. That's because MD took over Boeing, legally retaining their name.
    1
  2730. I think the idea of flying bombs, while far from unknown, was considered almost a Hollywood caricature. No one took it seriously. It was too outside the box. (This is another reason we got the truth movement, people who cannot see outside convention, even though their own scenarios are reeking with it, extravagantly beyond any box.)
    1
  2731.  @joshgonzales1599  God too, for his sinful nature includes mass murder (the flood) slavery, stoning you to death for working on Saturday, and executing a cursing child. If God sees fit to exempt himself from basic human decency, then why should we care if gays also sin?
    1
  2732. Only to people who refuse to provide the hard proof.
    1
  2733. What crap? The article didn't take sides. It's just commenting on people's attitudes.
    1
  2734. Real men who mow down peaceful protesters by the dozen, where torture is still wide spread, who conducts fraud elections? Uganda's most notorious butcher? That real man?
    1
  2735.  @cyrusblackwood33  You're talking about Trump's Big Lie? I'm not surprised the same person who calls a butcher a real man promotes the Big Lie. The two views are indicative of the same psychology. The willingness to believe anything.
    1
  2736. Just a few reactions: I think it oversimplifies things to say that there's only two choices: threatening a mother's life versus "just want to throw away." For one, giving birth even in a hospital, risks the mother's life- by about 10,000 to one on average. The risk from an abortion is just a tiny fraction of that. Carrying a child can be scary. Giving birth amounts to torture. Which leads to the question, if anesthesia were not available, would you be in favor of forcing women to go through a torturous experience? Not sure if there's a definitive answer to that.
    1
  2737. Seriously, have you ever done even a moment of research??
    1
  2738. Yes, they have enough on their plate already: witchcraft, dirt eating, sorcery, black magic. Keep that mess out of the West.
    1
  2739. Only about one in 10 comments here make any sense. They blame the parent but not the obviously hazardous exhibit? That's totally backwards reasoning - as if there's ever been a parent in the history of the world who never ever lost track of their child even once? We do indeed live in the age of the absurd.
    1
  2740. I don't see a necessary contradiction, depending on one's reasons.
    1
  2741. The Soon-Yi relationship was deplorable, but not so sure it qualifies as child sexual abuse, as she was said to be about 21 at the time it started. But in a broader context, it might be said anything so inappropriate as this could be considered abuse. But that said, a very big distinction between 21 year old consent, and 7-year old rape.
    1
  2742. But the fairy tail of a fake crash into the middle of nowhere is even more ridiculous. Since when do governments target blades of grass? Talk about "firsts."
    1
  2743. "Just like explosive demolition." If so, it would be the quietest CD in history.
    1
  2744. And perhaps your opinions are racist too.
    1
  2745. Kindly cite in the video above where CNN imposed its values on Africa.
    1
  2746.  @JohnStedman-d4s  Question Dan Air crash: back then, why wasn't it forbidden to fly in cloud without ground based monitoring?
    1
  2747.  @deoranjed8118  I'm saying, there has to be a sensible narrative to explain why Dominique admitted to the crime, knowing he would go to jail. Rational self-interest speaks against incriminating yourself if you know you're innocent.
    1
  2748. Open to discussion.
    1
  2749. That's a myth I also read in a recent book.
    1
  2750. If it were that obvious, the plot would have unraveled on day one.
    1
  2751. This weird obsession Uganda has with bedroom management. Would that they apply the same skills to something useful.
    1
  2752. A typical Youtube comment.
    1
  2753. Almost as bad as Uganda's thug president.
    1
  2754. That's better than a sociopath and his violent thug followers.
    1
  2755. I think they used to have a pretty good record, and very good service in the 1970s. Then they had three bad strikes (not including 911) between 1999 and 2001. Was that a reflection of poor safety culture, or just statistical bad luck? Today, like most 1st tier airlines, they have had a spotless record for decades.
    1
  2756. Thats correct. Elvis stole it.
    1
  2757. For a man who now has emboldened hardened criminals to regroup and spread violence everywhere. How blind can you be to the evil he has unleashed? Many people now fear for their lives. It's pure evil to put people at risk: former January 6 investigators, Bolton and other targets of I-anian threat.s And I guess like Trump, you have no concern for their well being. This is the danger of demagogues. They can easily blind their followers to the actual harm they do.
    1
  2758.  @ultramag0343  Your views indicate a failure of empathy.
    1
  2759.  @ultramag0343  OK, fair enough. What I want to suggest is that there's a common myth, that we can always control our actions. If you would like, please reda this short passage below. The subject is hunting accidents, but it could just as well apply here: Your thoughts would be welcome. "Psychology and human factors can provide insight into how these situations might occur. When interpreting information, we rely heavily upon mental rules of thumb called heuristics. Heuristics operate outside of our conscious awareness and are utilised even more in stressful or emotionally- charged situations. However, they can also make us susceptible to cognitive biases which may lead us astray—we underestimate the impact heuristics will have on our decisions. Attempts to manage heuristics and cognitive biases are often futile because we normally cannot detect them when they occur. Hunters are constantly told that they need to treat every sound or movement as human in an attempt to change their mind-set. However, given the difficulty in detecting cognitive biases, it is unlikely a hunter’s conscious management of heuristics would be consistently possible in the long term."
    1
  2760.  @ultramag0343  Translation of the article: research into decision making under stress shows that the common view errors are always the result of negligence or carelessness is at odds with reality. Anyone at anytime, no matter how careful, can be subject to this flaw in our cognitive hardwiring. Are you at least open to saying, hey, maybe this happened to Potter?
    1
  2761.  @ultramag0343  Did you read the article I posted? If so, how would you refute it? Thank you.
    1
  2762.  @ultramag0343  Yes, I get it. This is the common wisdom for many. The whole point of the article is to challenge this belief. Did you read it? If this article were used in court as Potter's self-defense, could you give a proof that the article is wrong? If so, let's hear it. If not, is it asking too much to consider that maybe, just maybe, the article might be correct? And that that perhaps any of us, at any time, under stress, even after 26 million trillion zillion years of experience, can be a victim of an undetectable cognitive bias? It has happened to me several times, such as somehow interpreting a green light for cross traffic as a green light for me. And I have a lifetime experience crossing streets, and 40 years driving!!
    1
  2763. I think it's a little more complicated than that. You could just as well argue most women view men as objects: they are seen as cash machines.
    1
  2764.  @JohnStedman-d4s  I recall though that Bragg stated they were indeed unsure about what was the third exit.
    1
  2765. But in this case the captain did accept the correction from his 1st officer. He waited for the ATC clearance.
    1
  2766. And Turkish Airlines tampering.
    1
  2767. Not in a commercial airliner.
    1
  2768. Then you agree with the official NIST reports
    1
  2769.  @shillhunter2.076  It is apparent from your astounding infantile logic that you do not have the intelligence to be part of this conversation. Your logic is the equivalent of claiming that an expert in zoology should have no interest in psychology. Or that only truthers are interest in the truth. The real question is, how can anyone believe such a monumentally stupid claim?
    1
  2770. Well obviously he wasn't that headstrong as his co-pilot called him out on his pre-mature rev. And guess what. Van Zanten OBEYED. He waited for his airways clearance. While it may well be true Van Zanten had a big ego and was arrogant, there's some debate about that. And in any case it's speculation to say his ego/arrogance was the primary cause of the crash. It might appear that Mentour Pilot agrees with the over-the-top Dutch report. But to be fair, he didn't come out and explicitly say, as did the Dutch report, that no major errors were made by anyone.
    1
  2771. Do you also agree with his endorsing the death penalty for gays back in 2009, and then life in prison when that bill failed?
    1
  2772.  @broski3128  It's a simple principle that seems to elude many Ugandans. If they want the West to mind its own business, why can't they do same for gays? A healthy mind doesn't obsess about what others do in the bedroom.
    1
  2773. What happened was that the 2 defendants started to chase the victim and in the process committed armed assault and in the opinion of most experts, created reckless endangerment. Arbery, perhaps due to his mental illness, reacted by trying to grab the gun that was probably pointing at him. So one of the defendants shot him as he grabbed the weapon.
    1
  2774.  @h2835  Well, you'd have to ask the Green Brigade. They know everything.
    1
  2775. You're unable to consider that the US government is not just very powerful, but also massively incompetent, with plenty of weak holes in the system. As we know, NORAD was not designed for, nor looking for, attacks from within. That's one reason it took over an hour to intercept Payne Stewart's learjet. They were focused on enemies coming at us from outside. The terrorists identified the chink in the armor and exploited it. Another great example of incompetence was Korean AL flight 007. At the height of the cold war, the plane flew over some of the most sensitive areas of the Soviet Union for over half an hour, escaping back into International waters without an intercept - long before it was finally shot down. If it could happen there, in 1983, it could certainly have happened here.
    1
  2776. If it operates on electricity, why can't we just pull the plug?
    1
  2777.  @kollegs101  Can you give a scenario where this gets out of hand?
    1
  2778.  @reginageorge4  Woke madness is annoying but not destabilizing.
    1
  2779.  @martygras378  Any reduction in spam is always welcome.
    1
  2780.  @martygras378  There are more than enough videos devoted to 9/11 skepticism, or which question the official narrative. But to constantly be bombarding 911 videos that have nothing to do with this, is spam, in a way that my posts are not, excepting the extremely occasional one like this. Protesting spam is not spam.
    1
  2781.  @martygras378  It doesn't matter if it's the truth. It's the constant bombardment of these messages on every single video on 9/11.
    1
  2782.  StopCensorship4--1  Not according to Pew Research, THE gold standard for opinion surveys. Shows again you are out of touch with reality on multiple levels. But hey, what fun would there be without the local village idiot?
    1
  2783.  StopCensorship4--1  "nobody is born gae," Not true. You've never heard of Homo Erectus?
    1
  2784. It's possible, but there's not much supporting evidence.
    1
  2785. Problem is, there's no real proof that self-defense was NOT the motive for the shooting. How does one disprove that?
    1
  2786. "How can something that God calls an abomination be okay?" So, it's OK to execute a cursing child, and be stoned to death for mowing the lawn on the Sabbath? That is the Christian God. There is nothing particularly moving or deep or wise about such words of cruelty. This is why, instinctively, most Christians, whatever they may utter, don't take God's word literally.
    1
  2787. I totally agree. I am shocked by the lack of men appearing in the protester photos.
    1
  2788. Against the morally depraved traitor Trump. Go for it.
    1
  2789.  @JohnStedman-d4s  Well just for argument's sake, I think you can do a "for and against" here. A lot of this seems mere;y semantic. Most references to major air crashes include sabotage, such as Pan Am 103, which is still considered an air disaster by most standards, and whose causes are fascinating both from the controversial theories, and exactly why it broke up as it did. The main reason 9/11 isn't often counted is because IMO most of the deaths were on the ground. Also, sabotage in a sense is simply another type of hazard. Some airlines invest more than others in preventing it witness Malaysian shoot down.That was the reason Flight International once gave for including them in their annual safety audit. Maybe the best argument is you can't learn as much from sabotage? But I suppose the same could said of countless CFIT crashes. Cheers
    1
  2790. Great point.
    1
  2791. The answer is, they wouldn't want to reek that level of destruction. If you were alive and remember that day, it seemed that by the 3rd plane impact, at the latest, we all had the sense of a common enemy, terrorism. Controlled demolition was therefore gratuitous in the extreme. No government, even a conspiratorial one, would do something so absurd.
    1
  2792.  Edd Spencer  "As for the towers, well the destruction of the two towers was never explained by the NIST NCSTAR report" Hold on. They did give an explanation of why the twin towers collapsed. Whether one believes it is a different question.After I saw the Ryan Macky/Tony Szamboti debate on NH television(part 1), it became much more easy to grasp how the building might have collapsed w/o the aid of explosives. For me at least.
    1
  2793.  Edd Spencer  I know the basics of their model, though the report is way too long for me to read in its entirety. What do you see as the main weaknesses?
    1
  2794.  Delonte Hollister  No objection fro me.
    1
  2795.  @thomwessels2281  P.S. You don't need to be a lawyer to put the pieces together intelligently.
    1
  2796.  @thomwessels2281  "They recognized the criminal from prior burglaries in the neighborhood, but of course did NOT witness the latest burglary" Doesn't matter because technically they still violated Georgia law. Especially since they were relying on memory from at least 30 days prior. "Of COURSE they used bad judgement and took the law into their own hands but a dangerous criminal is now permanently off the street" OK, so people see it through different lenses. But you gotta admit I did at least a little better than many who are certain of cold blooded murder.
    1
  2797. A grieving mom deserves a pass. That said, we have ample evidence of Wright's criminal past, which includes participating in a car jacking, shooting his friend in the head, and armed assault and attempted choking of a woman who's tearful testimony can be seen in a Fox video. The mother of Duante undoubtedly has either denied these charges, or forgiven him for committing them. What Potter did can't begin to compare to what Wright did. It's a double standard at best to give her son a pass and stick it to Potter big time. One day, with the passage of time, perhaps Wright's mother might realize that if she could forgive her son for behavior far more outrageous than this, she might have it in her to have some forgiveness for Potter too.
    1
  2798. Last I heard they don't make a lot.
    1
  2799. Not sure if I agree with that. People video for various reasons, such as capturing hard evidence of a crime. The motive will differ from one to another.
    1
  2800.  @oliverseoliverse  Thank you for your reply. My response would be that Bryan apparently started filming long before he knew the Ms were doing something wrong. As the phone records show, there was no contact between him and the Ms either the night before, or at any time that day before the chase started. On the other hand, it's clear he was a typical southern racist at the very least. I do agree though it was stupidity incarnate to think that video would be to your favor. It proved conclusively Travis committed armed assault before Arbery even reached the vehicle. That all said, while I have little sympathy for the Ms, I don't think Bryan's actions are proportional to a life sentence. The felony murder laws are highly inadequate, as this case especially shows.
    1
  2801. Ridiculous. Since when do shot down planes leave no debris? Maybe in Hollywood. But not real life witness Malaysian Airlines shoot down with its big plentiful chunks of debris; or Korean Air over Siberia, which actually landed safely (1978), ditto Lybian Arab 727, lots of wreckage. Where do you guys get this stup-d myth from?
    1
  2802. And that MD built a defective aircraft.
    1
  2803. Well I think the truth movement has failed to establish beyond reasonable doubt that explosives were needed, and that the likely motives of the government warranted bringing them down.
    1
  2804.  @ShikataGaNai100  I would say probably not, but there are plenty here all right.
    1
  2805. On what?
    1
  2806. Not always. There are many complex reasons.
    1
  2807. I still say there is excess hate in the sentence.
    1
  2808. I think the case at best is for manslaughter, as it's impossible to prove this was not self-defense.
    1
  2809.  @alasarcher400  Thank you for your comment. I think I gave the wrong impression. What I meant to say is, this was not JUSTIFIED self-defense. But I don't think we can say is was cold-blooded pre-meditated murder either. In your bank robbery scenario, I'm not sure we have a totally analogous situation. In an armed robbery, you can and should 100% assume that if you try and escape you can expect to be shot. Is Arbery really the same though? The McMichael's guns could be seen, but not necessarily aimed at AA. Being armed is not the same as pointing a gun as you make a threat. That's your bank robber scenario. The level of threat is more ambiguous here. It's not 100% beyond doubt that TM was using his weapon with the same mindset as a bank robber. We can speculate he was, but hard to prove. So while I totally agree this was egregious and illegal behavior, I always try and give the benefit of a reasonable doubt to the accused. To me there's some degree of doubt as to the degree of their intentions. So I go with a manslaughter type violation. I don't think we can prove they were out to do something they thought was wrong. Whereas a bank robber knows this is pure thuggery. Big difference. Don't get me wrong, I still favor a significant jail sentence. I'm more inclined to think 10 years, rather than completely destroy their lives.
    1
  2810.  @alasarcher400  Before continuing, I just listened to the 911 call again, having heard it two weeks ago. You must be referencing a different call because there's no order by the Police to go home or anything like that. Let's try to clear up the confusion. The version I just listened to was made about 1:14pm just seconds before the shooting. Greg M calls 911 and the dispatcher 1st says. "What is the address of your emergency?" Are we talking about the same call so far?
    1
  2811.  @alasarcher400  Reasonable doubt as follows: hate crime. There's no robust proof their motive was hate. We can speculate. We can even agree they are racist pigs. That TM used the N word after shooting AA. But that doesn't mean they would not have pursued the suspect if he were white. You would have to prove that to prove a hate crime.
    1
  2812. Papers surviving fiery plane crashes is well documented. Nice try.
    1
  2813. Men may be much worse than "the common sense view," it that even exists. But I honestly don't think we should look at this case in this manner. You can lure criminals into a single place very quickly and easily. In my city, they sent wanted criminals a fake invitation to an auction, and something like a 100 showed up. That you can get criminals and other assorted perverts to congregate at a single place or time doesn't really tell you anymore than we should already know. They are everywhere.
    1
  2814. And his murderous government? You know, the one where state violence has become normalized, , it's proposed "kill the gays" bill, where extrajudicial arrests, torture, and wrongful imprisonment have all been part of the the most recent election, with its 54 killings of innocent protesters and bystanders. If you respect corrupt elections and violence, he's your man.
    1
  2815. Which is why we didn't attack ourselves.
    1
  2816.  @garryshoker6637  Don't worry, just another unrigorous mind who has poor judgement, doesn't understand the nature of evidence, and cannot grasp how the real world works.
    1
  2817. That is the most intelligent comment yet.
    1
  2818. Yes, he's honest about hating, and elevating his feelings into life sentences for gays. I suppose that can be liked on some perverted level.
    1
  2819. Yes, the FBI didn't care about public access or documentation. But the evidence is still more than enough to confirm flight 93 crashed near Shanksville. Don't confuse secrecy with actual evidence.
    1
  2820. There is by now lots of sources of evidence supporting genocide. Are you saying all of it is fake? How would you go about disproving all this evidence?
    1
  2821.  @wilcowen6284  Indeed. Also, there is evidence the Turks used quotas: not more than x percent (I think 5 or 10%) Armenians were to remain.
    1
  2822.  @Atilla963  OK, we can start with some sources: like the NY Times, which wrote almost daily articles describing what was happening in 1915. At the time of the massacres. The NY Times was one of the first places where the term "crimes against humanity" was used. In all some 140 articles on the massacres. It spoke of the "systematic race extermination. . . organized by the government, " "massacres" and "atrocities." Now that's just a single source. Let us stick with it for now. Do you have evidence the NY Times was deliberately lying? If so, please provide a source. Can we deal with one source at a time please?
    1
  2823.  @realityandnaturepill  Is there really a positive proof that gay attraction has no significant biological component? I have only followed the science off and on. But my impression is that the proof is not yet.
    1
  2824.  @realityandnaturepill  What I see, just as someone who follows the debates causally, is that there isn't a definitive proof either way just yet. Is that a fair assessment?
    1
  2825.  @realityandnaturepill  Maybe you could answer my question: no proof either side. Could you answer that yes or no? Thanks
    1
  2826.  @realityandnaturepill  Thanks for your replies. Couple of things. If neither side of this debate has at its disposal a positive verifiable proof, then the scientific method demands a certain degree of agnosticism. We are not entitled to say with complete confidence that homosexuality does or does not have a genetic or biological component. While I've acknowledged my casual relationship to this debate, I am of the impression it goes way too far to say that the case for a biological component is "nonsense." To me, there's plenty of suggestive evidence, and we are still a good ways away from establishing the precise causes of homosexuality. If we completely rule out biology at any level, then what specific evidence do we have for a completely social/environmental explanation?is there any more rigorous evidence for say, traumatic experience, fatherless kids, bullying, poverty, and on down the list? If we don't have a robust well established non biology explanation, wouldn't that make the nurture/socialization case also scientific nonsense? I believe we're far away from a definitive understanding of homosexuality, and it would be just as unscientific to discard biology entirely. I might give an analogy: There is so far no gene identified for left-handedness. Yet it seems counter-intuitive to say we socialize 10% of the population to be left-handed. So that's sort of analogous to the gay debate. It's far too early to be coming to hard conclusions when there seems no simple answer, and a lack of direct evidence to date. cheers
    1
  2827. ​ @realityandnaturepill  "but they cannot find this genetical determinant" As I stated, they can't find it for delft-handedness either. All this says to me is that science is overrated. It doesn't have simple answers to everything, and progress can be slow. Why should we assume science should have proved x y or z by 2019? The science may be very complex. Where is the science that identifies the non-biology determinants of gay attraction? Why can't they find the non-biological determinant for homosexuality either? To me, all this says we should not be making either the overconfident assumptions of the gay-is-biology people; but it applies with similar force to the gay-is-environmental people. We should all be a bit more modest perhaps.
    1
  2828.  @realityandnaturepill  "In the twin studies, which found both twins to be homosexual in about 30% to 40% of the cases." As I said I'm not very in the loop with all the twin studies evidence, so you may need to be a little patient with me. That said, if these twin studies find both twins to be homosexual 30-40% of the time, and any 2 non- twin brothers presumably have only a 2-5% chance of both being gay, wouldn't this suggest that twins are at least 6 times more likely (5 vs 30%) to be gay than their non-twin counterparts? If I'm not getting it, by all means help me out.
    1
  2829.  @realityandnaturepill  "if they ever were existent, obviously, because homosexual individuals are unable to transfer genes." That's one issue I did look into last year, and it's a beautiful example how nature can outsmart us. There's a theory known as the maternal line theory. Now let's forget for the moment whether it's true or not. What it postulates is that gay offspring are more likely in certain women, and these gay offspring are a byproduct of a particular evolutionary strategy, not a direct evolutionary strategy in themselves. There's much that's been written on it, and again, whether true or not, it shows that we aren't entitled to make absolute assumptions about the logic of or illogic of gay offspring. More here: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26089486 Science is filled with paradoxes, and from a purely theoretical perspective, the scientific method should keep us in check when we make a priori assumptions about how nature should or should not work. So I'm not ready just yet to say "it make no sense." This is why science was invented; because it continually confounds our notions about common sense.
    1
  2830.  @realityandnaturepill  "The thing is; the researchers were not able to evaluate whether this was due to genetics or the environment " Now I'm really lost, though I'm sure this must be my stupidity gene acting up. If these twin studies cannot tell us why the 30-40% are gay, then what use are they?
    1
  2831.  @realityandnaturepill  "only if it benefits the animals' reproduction," As mentioned above, the maternal line theory of homosexuality , if true, would fit with this. Imagine a gene or genes which both increase female fertility and also increased the chances of gay offspring. "then any losses in offspring that come about from the males would be made up for by the females of the family." Thoughts?
    1
  2832.  @yahirdoesbadvids  Thanks for a most interesting post. "These people are even rarer." I don't now there's robust evidence for that. It seems that gay men at least, frequently say they are gay. They typically don't say "Well, I'm USUALLY gay." "We are all far too complex for such a simplistic categorization." While I tend to agree complexity is the name of the game in this world, some things are actually very simple. I have pretty much 100% gay attraction. Yes I have had fantasies involving women, but they are never quite the same thing, no actual attraction to female body parts, etc. And I doubt I'm very unique. "bisexuals prefer the opposite sex in some situations" This point needs to be made more often. People come here and say "I know someone who was gay, then turned straight." They don't seem to realize that is precisely how bisexuality often works. " 'Of course they choose', he thinks." That's very interesting indeed. I had never thought of that. But I wonder if that model applies generally. cheers
    1
  2833.  @yahirdoesbadvids  I see your post is a Quora post dating from 2014. If it's not yours, kindly put in quotes so it doesn't create confusion. It seems clear that you didn't write this, as it conflicts with your reply to me. If you don't put things in quotes, it creates confusion. Putting a name at the end of it doesn't clarify it's not you, as lots of posters put their real name at the end of the post. You made it sound like you are Eric Stolzman. If you don't care about gay choice, then don't expect me to figure it out based on a copy and paste. I'm not a mind reader. It just creates confusion. Thanks
    1
  2834.  @yahirdoesbadvids  Sorry to pound you over the head. It happens. :)
    1
  2835.  @yahirdoesbadvids  "i feel as if not alot of people have that mindset." You are indeed way ahead of the Youtube curve.
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  2836.  @bob15479  Well it can be both. BUT, think about it logically. Unless your'e a prostitute, what are the odds you would choose gay relationships as your "preferred behavior" if you didn't have gay attraction? People generally act according to what they like. And what one likes is usually not randomly picked out of a hat. That would show, as I see it, that the attraction is far more basic than is the behavior.
    1
  2837.  @bob15479  "I think it's silly to think our sexual preferences can't/don't change just like our other preferences." As your sources indicate, changing one's orientation seems more the exception and not the norm for most people. From your sources' source: "..this may not be a wise assumption. . . .some women perceive choice as an important element . . . . Gay men, on the other hand, typically perceive that their sexual orientation is a given, a central aspect of themselves." It's also difficult to know if those people who do change are merely a subset of bisexuals, who are not the majority. But as you point out, it may well be there is a continuum of gay/straight, as claimed by the Kinsey scale. Be all of that as it may, it doesn't undercut my main point which is that desire and attraction come first. People will choose to change or experiment based on the attractions they are having at the moment. This is universal IMO. Behavior everywhere is based on desire. And desires are just there.
    1
  2838.  @bob15479  "I guess what I'm saying is, your are using circular logic. In the following sentence you essentially say 'how could you be intrinsically gay without being intrinsically gay' ". Not quite. What i really was saying is, the attraction is more basic because the behavior DEPENDS on the attraction. By contrast the attraction does not DEPEND on the behavior, though it will usually correlate with it. Do you see the distinction I was making? Indeed the primary definition of being gay is:   ---------------------- ho·mo·sex·u·alDictionary result for homosexual /ˌhōməˈsekSH(o͞o)əl/Submit adjective 1. (of a person) sexually attracted to people of one's own sex. noun noun: homosexual; plural noun: homosexuals 1. a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex. synonyms: gay person, lesbian, gay, lesbigay; More -----------------------
    1
  2839. Korey using the word scholarship? Did they seek out even a single expert?
    1
  2840.  Apollox44 Pollo  "Yes you did, and i quote: "Oh yes I do, and so do you. We should all know the basics. Is murder wrong? Yes. In Uganda the law says if you are gay or practice homosexuality you are subject to life in prison. That is wrong, and if you can't see that, then I can say with complete confidence that you are holding a morally evil point of view." <----That is an entirely subjective opinion masquerading as an objective fact." I actually didn't say it was an objective fact. Having complete confidence doesn't make it objective. I believe that morality has validity, which is a different matter. And what I am getting at is that there are certain standards decent people adhere to, or should adhere to. And we don't go around pretending murder is in a grey area. And we certainly should not be equating gay conduct with other crimes that deserve life in prison. By contrast you are taking highly debatable propositions and presenting them as if they were objective fact. But if you didn't mean that, I take it back.
    1
  2841. ​ Apollox44 Pollo  "Firstly, that's not how this works. Scientifically, if there is no evidence of something existing, there is no reason to assume it does. " You've got it all wrong again. The assumption I've made is not that it does exist, but that we have enough evidence at present to declare it a possibility worthy of further investigation. By contrast, you have stated the opposite, which is to say that we should declare it IMPOSSIBLE. That's not science, but hubris.
    1
  2842.  Apollox44 Pollo  What do we know about biology that precludes this? I don't mean anything as silly as precise codes for every situation, but general ones.
    1
  2843.  Apollox44 Pollo  "However, morality is a conscious level function requiring the development of the equivalent of a frontal cortex and societal upbringing to inform it." We know so little about the origins of morality that it's hubris to make these kinds of assumptions. Our behavior is shared by many forces including ones independent of upbringing. Why do we like a particular type of music? Are we socialized to like Beethoven? Or is there a hardwiring component to this? A moral sense can't be completely a product of socialization IMO because we have to ask, where did society get it from? Did they just invent morality out of thin air? If God gave us the moral capacity, how do we know He didn't give it to us through our hardwiring? These matters are poorly understood at present, it seems, and I could just as easily say that to me, it's highly implausible that we humans just randomly invented morality without any biological input.
    1
  2844.  Apollox44 Pollo   If we have to choose between humans or society just creating morality out of thin air, or hardwiring, hardwiring is the more intuitive answer.   Morality does not exist in other animals true, but one can argue it doesn’t suddenly just appear out of nowhere either. It has arguably evolved as a continuum from what one might call the pre-moral behavior of our ancestors, which can be thought of as an early stage of morality: for example feelings of having done something wrong, “shame or guilt” It would be counter-intuitive to say that while a primitive moral sense began to evolve in higher mammals, rather than continue with the advent of homo sapiens, it instead suddenly disappeared.       The evolutionary theory of morality has a lot going for it. It can be argued that moral traights were selected because it enhances survival by inducing greater social cooperation.   Finally, there have been experiments testing cross cultural morailty. In one well known example, researchers have shown that  whether you are Western, Eastern, an eskimo or an aborigonal, when you and a friend are walking along together, and your friend happens to find a sum of money lying on the ground (or the material equivalent) and offers less than  half of it to you, most people indicate they would reject the offer. This might suggest that we are hardwired for a sense of fairness, and are willing to forego profit if we are treated unequally.  In yet another article we have the claim that scientists have discovered 7 universal moral rules:   “Anthropologists at the University of Oxford have discovered what they believe to be seven universal moral rules.    The rules: help your family, help your group, return favours, be brave, defer to superiors, divide resources fairly, and respect others' property. These were found in a survey of 60 cultures from all around the world. Previous studies have looked at some of these rules in some places – but none has looked at all of them in a large representative sample of societies. The present study, published in Current Anthropology, is the largest and most comprehensive cross-cultural survey of morals ever conducted.”   And Michael Shermer in his book The Science of Good and Evil has come up with no less than 202 moral universals.   Chomsky is famous for his theory of universal grammer, which posits that all humans come pre-wired with an instinctive set of rules governing how we process language. If it’s true for grammer, then why could it not also apply on some level to morality?
    1
  2845.  Apollox44 Pollo  As usual, you have absolute rigid answers to everything. What I fully expected.
    1
  2846.  @pekh1859  OK, I agree with much or latest post. I never claimed that all moral behavior is simple and easy. However, I find it hard to understand how jailing gays for life fits into any decent moral philosophy. What philosophy would that be? What does that accomplish other than cause more misery? I don't see why this issue isn't rather black and white. If you want to talk complex messy morality, try economic systems, abortion, legalizing prostitution, the exact age of consent, legalizing drugs, the list is endless. But life in prison for gays? That's in a grey area to you? But I agree, I don't mean to say the West is necessarily superior to Uganda, and the US does play God with the world and shouldn't. But Youtube comments don't represent anything other than the individuals posting on it.
    1
  2847.  Apollox44 Pollo  "Furthermore, absent a belief in God, heaven and hell, you've yet to give me a rational reason to behave morally when it is more advantageous to be immoral." I've given you a rational reason - our hardwiring. Let's go back to Chomky's universal grammar, a theory which posits we all come pre-wired with an instinctive set of RULES for processing language. Now, I am not an expert in linguistics, and presumably neither are you. But I am quite smart enough to know that Chomsky's theories are taken very seriously by the vast majority of scientists. So IF hard-wired moral rules are impossible, then that would also have to be true for any other set of rules that govern human behavior. Kindly tell us how Chomsky's theory became the dominant one scientifically if it's all so neatly disprovable. Thanks
    1
  2848.  Apollox44 Pollo   "Your example dealt with fairness, the claim being that people would forego profit if treated unequally. The idea being, in your own words, that people are hardwired for fairness. If that's the case, people wouldn't be so prone to pocket the money others have dropped for themselves. There's similar experiments in which people openly take advantage of a person's blindness to cheat them out of money. Where's the hardwiring for fairness there? These examples don't prove anything about hardwiring one way or another." I would say the crucial difference here is that people are not as concerned with fairness when it comes to how others are treated, but how THEY are treated. Translating that as universal to others is another layer or two down in moral reasoning. So the idea here is, people particularly feel the sting of personal humiliation when treated like this by others, and they - according to the surveys - express this by more often than not turning down the smaller serving of the pie. That's why someone would be much more inclined to pocket money left behind by another - THEY aren't experience the sting of inequality. So these are two related but ultimately not very analogous situations.
    1
  2849.  Apollox44 Pollo  "lol then that's not hardwiring for morality, that's rational self interest, " How would it be rational self-interest to turn down a $100 bill, for example? The model I'm presenting is that a person values a sense of being treated fairly by others, and has a strong reaction when not being treated fairly. There is a sense of "moral outrage." If you didn't have this instinctive moral sense, why would you turn down the dough?
    1
  2850.  Apollox44 Pollo  "I found your explanation of the theory vague so i did a wikipedia search and these are the criticisms other experts have levied against it:" I read the wiki entry too and I knew you would be quoting from it. Here again is an example of controversy, different models of how we acquire knowledge, and competing paradigms. You automatically choose the models that agree with your bias, and perhaps I do the same. This doesn't get us anywhere definitively. The feral child example is not proof of anything because the theory of universal grammar doesn't hold that it is the only criteria for being able to learn a language. Wiki is very convenient for Youtube debates, and I had little trouble under the feral child entry finding the Critical Period Hypothesis, which holds that there is a critical period in early life where this ability is acquired, after which it becomes increasingly difficult to learn a language. I'm sure we could debate this endlessly and you and I would always quote the research that fits our paradigms, right?
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  2851. "Furthermore, absent a belief in God, heaven and hell, you've yet to give me a rational reason to behave morally when it is more advantageous to be immoral." Help me understand this. I am not particularly a believer, I was raised in a more or less non-believeing family that rarely went to church. But I also have a strong moral conscience, have genuine moral commitments and empathy. So how can you explain this given your model that I must be a believer to have these attributes?
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  2852.  Apollox44 Pollo  "It can't get us anywhere definitively because this theory isn't even falsifiable, and therefore unscientific." Having thought about universal grammar quit a bit today, it seems to me there's a lot to question in it, and it seems that Chomsky himself has largely recanted. The charge of unfalsifiability is hard to evaluate without examine his theory in detail, something I don't have time to do. So I will abandon this analogy. Theoretically, if one found a society with a radically different language not having all the alleged rich features Chomsky cites, then that would count as falsification, wouldn't it? The feral child, however, doesn't disprove universal grammar, nor does the Critical Period Hypothesis. Here are 2 obvious counter examples: teenagers can hear frequencies that adults cannot, but that doesn't imply hearing is cultural; young children have the ability to grow back a fingertip if cut off, but again it is obvious we don't teach children to grow back fingers. I would say this about morality: it involves powerful feelings/emotions, without which we would not be able to process the concept of morality. In this sense, why should it be any different than any other emotions that might be hard-wired into us? We know so incredibly little about the human mind that it borders on hubris to rule out some degree of innate sense of morality.
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  2853.  Apollox44 Pollo  I think it might be wise to read this NOVA article on falsifiability. It expresses some of the question marks I have had: just google: "Falsifiability is “just a simple motto that non-philosophically-trained scientists have latched onto.” “It would be completely non-scientific to ignore that possibility just because it doesn’t conform with some preexisting philosophical prejudices,” says Sean Carroll, a physicist at Caltech, who called for the “retirement” of the falsifiability principle in a controversial essay for Edge last year." Thoughts?
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  2854.  Apollox44 Pollo  "Philosophy doesn't require falsifiability" Misses the point entirely. The claim is not that philosophy requires falsifiability, but that lack of falsifiability may be a flawed methodology as an objective standard. It's itself an untested assumption, which has proven very useful. But how do we know it's the BEST methodology? Counter example: you provide a theory that best fits the available data, even though at this stage at least, it's not falsifiable. In our quest for scientific truth, why wouldn't preferring the best unfalsifiable theory count as scientific? Wouldn't continuing to pursue evidence for the best available model/theory be much more scientific than say, spinning ideas out of thin air? Is there a truly objective way to distinguish science from non science?
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  2855.  Apollox44 Pollo  “A scientific theory by definition MUST be falsifiable. So...I'm not following...are you claiming falsifiability is a bad standard?”   To continue falsifiability for a bit more, I wouldn’t go that far, but it may be too restrictive. Modern science predates Karl Popper’s falsifiability paradigm by centuries. It has, from what I understand, become part of the accepted definition of the sceintific method. But I don’t believe one can argue it’s intriniscally part of the basic definition of science. That is, many scientists have been debating it for some time now. This would not be the case were it noncontroversial, as for example the definition of the sun. The idea is, what is the best methodolgy for distinguishing sceince from nonscience? Falsifiability is not a first principle, but an attempt to find the best way to do sience.    Nicholas Maxwell puts it this way:   “I come now to my own major criticism of Popper's theory. It amounts to this: Popper has failed completely to provide any kind of rationale for the methodolo- gical rules he advocates. That is, he has failed to provide us with any reason for holding that Popperian rules give us a better hope of realizing the aims of scientific enquiry than any other set of rules.” Here’s another counter example I read: The claim that humans are mortal seems well founded scientifically, but it’s  not falsifiable for the obvious reason one would have to live for eternity before having any hope of finding an imortal human.  Would you agree with this example?
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  2856.  @palestinevideos2025  There's a divide between western and nonwestern countries. The vast majority of people in the major western countries now accept homosexuality. And in any case, majorities do not determine morality. If they did, then we would have no reason to debate the subject. We would just declare that the answer to all moral dilemmas is to choose the dominant view.
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  2857. ​ @palestinevideos2025  But you haven't provided a coherent argument why morality is a function of majority opinion. What's your argument?
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  2858. ​ @palestinevideos2025  Please provide proof that the only way to have a "smooth functioning of society" is to adopt the morality of the majority. A utilitarian, for example, might also make the same argument you are making: only by adopting utilitarianism can we have a smooth functioning of society. Why is he wrong and you right? How do you test that?
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  2859.  @palestinevideos2025  Actually, from what I can see, you are advocating a type of utilitarianism. But there's also a contradiction in what you are saying. Most people, if you asked them what morality consist of, would probably not give the definition you are giving. To the contrary, it seems that most people derive their moral beliefs not from a belief in the greater good per se, but in following prescribed moral codes set down by what they consider moral authorities: God, the Bible, the Quran, or other religious texts. - which may or may not correlate to the greater good. For example, does working on the sabbath really harm the smooth functioning of society? Does stoning a cursing child to death make society a better place? People, in other words, tend to follow a moral code because of their belief it is correct, not because it promotes the general happiness. Certainly the directive in Leviticus to kill a cursing child helps nobody. If most people believed morality consists in augmenting the greater good, they would all stop being self-oriented, and make other people - not themselves - the prime objects of their concern. In fact, most people the world over are remorselessly selfish, whether in the US, China or Iran. That is the way the world works. So the irony of what you claim is that the world's great majority don't subscribe to it.
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  2860. @SA in Adidas 1933 Yes, a a is ignorant of world history, or else he agrees slavery was once a moral thing.
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  2861.  @palestinevideos2025  "Slavery was known in almost every ancient civilization and society including Sumer, Ancient Egypt, Ancient China, the Akkadian Empire, Assyria, Ancient India, Ancient Greece, Carolingian Europe, the Roman Empire, the Hebrew kingdoms of the ancient Levant, and the pre-Columbian civilizations of the Americas.[3] Such institutions included debt-slavery, punishment for crime, the enslavement of prisoners of war, child abandonment, and the birth of slave children to slaves.[48]" So a a, were the ancients correct? If so, by your logic it would have been sick and psychotic for them to have attempted to end slavery.  Apparently civilization functioned smoothly for many centuries in these societies, and the practice was abandoned mainly for economic, not moral reasons, not because "chaos" resulted. In most cases slaves tend to be less than half the population, and it may well be that the vast majority of people, though powerless, accepted it as a normal part of society. But let's say for the sake of argument is was accepted.  Did that really make it moral? If the majority wants to kill you because they despise you, that's perfectly moral?
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  2862.  @palestinevideos2025  You haven't offered proofs of anything. You haven't proven that slavery was a necessity. If it were, then why was the North able to function smoothly without it while the South continued to practice it? Most countries function quite smoothly despite allowing homosexuality. A quick check reveals that the majority of the world's countries allow homosexuality. It's completely legal in about 130 countries, illegal in about 50 countries, with a few dozen allowing it for women but not men. And many of the legal countries changed only in recent years, indicating a worldwide shift towards greater acceptance.
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  2863.  @palestinevideos2025  You have also failed to show a correlation between acceptance of homosexuality and the lack of a "smooth functioning of society." For example, 8 of the top ten "peace index" countries allow homosexuality, while only 3 of the bottom 10 allow it. And among countries with at least 5 million inhabitants, 17 of the 20 countries with the lowest homicide rates allow homosexuality. You are just inserting your assumptions in place of actual evidence.
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  2864.  @palestinevideos2025  As for Africa, it seems to be a basket case of bad government, disease, poverty and high crime. Uganda, for example, has a murder rate twice that of the US, the 26th highest in the world. Elsewhere in Africa Lesotho has the 5th highest murder rate in the world, South Africa 8th worst, Central African Republic 14th, Swaziland 18, Namibia 19th, Botswana 22, South Sudan 21, Democratic Congo 22, Seychelles 23, Ivory Coast 25, Cape Verde 27, and Mali 30. It seems your ideal continent is filled with bad behavior indeed, people who do not know how to take care of themselves, and are much more violence prone than the West. By your logic, perhaps we should add Africans to the list of people who should be dispensed with. Indeed by your logic it could well be argued the world would be much better off without Africa.
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  2865.  @palestinevideos2025  "You accidentally admitted that being against homosexuality is just as a legitimate moral position as being in favour of it." Oh do tell me where I said that.
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  2866.  @palestinevideos2025  "the least peaceful countries in the world allow homosexuality. . . . .The USA being the least peaceful country in the world" Your methodology is all over the place. You are a scholarly joke, no academic institution could replicate your slap dash knee jerk untested inconsistent approach to reality. As I stated , by your logic Africa could easily be dispensed with and the world would be a better place.
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  2867.  @palestinevideos2025  "Whereas countries which ban homosexuality are far more peaceful." Show me a constant set of data that supports that.
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  2868. ​@a a Tell me where I said being against homosexuality is just as morally legitimate as being in favor of it. I said that I'm fine with other people saying they don't like it, but I never said I consider it just as legitimate. Please back up what you say. I want chapter and verse. Where did I say this?
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  2869.  @palestinevideos2025  Well maybe we need to get back to the very basics. In your eyes, which is more basic to morality? The fact it's the majority view? Or the "combination of logic and emotions" the majority uses to arrive at their views? What comes first here?
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  2870.  @palestinevideos2025  I'm more or less with you so far. But we have to go even deeper. If individual emotions and logical reasoning are the starting point, and not majority opinion, we have to ask, what are the exact emotional and logical considerations that leads an individual to come to a better moral position than someone else's moral reasoning? In the absence of knowing the majority's views, how do we evaluate the correctness of an individual's moral conclusions?
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  2871.  @palestinevideos2025  "as for correctness of morals. You just have to go with the majority. You have to accept that. " Not without a cogent and compelling reason. It may well be that a minority viewpoint will have thought up a better moral system, one that leads to greater social harmony. There is no guarantee that majorities always come up with the optimal rational moral arrangement. So you have not prodded any proof that morality equates with majority opinion.  But there's another paradox you have to deal with. On the one hand you say that "everyone uses their logic and emotions to form their moral view." So moral views are NOT, according to you, a function of agreeing with the majority. To the contrary, moral determinations are arrived at by an individual's reflection and employing logical reasoning. But by saying morality is determined by majorities, you have undercut this veryindividualist methodology. If, as you have stated several times now, that morality is determined by majority opinion, an individual should NOT employ this process of moral reasoning. They should just go with the majority. This is a paradox. So to conclude: you haven't proven that the best moral system is the one agreed upon by the majority. And you have undercut the very methodology you have given for individual moral reasoning by stating that such reasoning is irrelevant. Instead, all and individual need do is agree with the majority rather than think for him or herself.
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  2872. ​ @palestinevideos2025  " There is no such thing as predefined right or wrong or superior or inferior morals. It is just a case of the majority is correct." There is no argument being presented here. If there is no such thing as inferior or superior morals, then neither minorities nor majorities have come to the "correct" morality.
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  2873.  @palestinevideos2025  There is also another principle of morality that has widespread acceptance, and that's the "Golden Rule." Under this alternative paradigm, we universalize how we want to be treated, and apply that to everyone consistently. So to use the example of homosexuals, if you believe a homosexual has no right to kill you, then you have no right to kill a homosexual. To do so would violate the Golden Rule. How do you know that the Golden Rule, and not majority opinion, is not the "correct" morality"?
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  2874.  @palestinevideos2025  And finally, there are many different moral systems that have as their goal the overall happiness of the majority, including utilitarianism, the American system of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," and socialists who argue that market-based economies erode human well being. You are assuming that majorities are better able to figure out which moral systems lead to maximizing happiness. But economic and social rules are often difficult to judge, even among the experts, and it doesn't follow majorities will always choose or understand these complex systems better than a minority of social or economic experts. Thus it is entirely possible a minority might be better able to correctly choose the best social arrangements and rules than the majority.
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  2875.  @palestinevideos2025  So to comment thus far, you have only presented tautologies: majorities are correct because they are correct.
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  2876.  Apollox44 Pollo  "No because all it would take to falsify the claim that humans are mortal would be to find someone who doesn't age." Not correct. Living forever doesn't just entail not aging, it means surviving every other cause of death, such as accidents, homicide, natural disasters, and indeed all of eternity. But even if we restrict ourselves to biological aging, there would be no absolute proof that a person who has stopped aging now, will not begin aging sometime again in the future.
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  2877.  Apollox44 Pollo  "And anyone who has stopped aging is immortal by definition, if they start aging again they are no longer immortal." You're misdefining immortal, which means "living forever; never dying or decaying......exempt from death" A person who has only temporarily stopped aging can still die. Therefore temporary cessation of aging does not meet the definition of immortality, and that person was never immortal. "That is indestructibility, not just immortality. That's even more easily falsified as we just have to try and kill him." Not sure if I'm following you. The issue under discussion is not falsifying indestructibility and immortality, but destructibility and mortality. In practical terms, you cannot falsify human mortality for the reasons illustrated. Destructibility is equally unfalsifiable because any failure to kill a human being by known means would not necessarily exhaust all of the possible destructive forces in the universe that might kill him or her.
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  2878.  Apollox44 Pollo  "No, you didn't define it properly, because immortality can refer either ..." This part of the discussion is going nowhere fast. But I will end by saying that the falsifiability criterion is open to question, the web does link some vigorous discussions on the subject, including by respected scientists. It's not that anyone is saying falsifiability should be completely dispensed with. Rather, the claim is that there is no absolutely uncontroversial or objective way to definitively separate science from non science. Popper was not a scientist but a philosopher of science. So to dismiss nonscientists and philosophers views is to dismiss Popper himself.
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  2879.  Apollox44 Pollo  "That is completely false. Science is objective and demarcated from non-science (quackery) through falsification. " OK, well let's test that. Tell me objectively what science is, in your own words.
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  2880.  Apollox44 Pollo  "Mortality has not been falsified because there are no immortals, all humans die. " So how is this any different than my original claim? Human mortality in the fullest sense qualifies as a science based theory, yet it cannot be falsified, just like I stated !!!! What is it that you are disagreeing with me on?
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  2881.  @tomjohn9026  I thought that at first, but the last few posts seem genuine. I think he really is in favor of murder, which is not much better I suppose.
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  2882.  @palestinevideos2025  There is no coherence to your latest post. That morality exists as a concept inside of human minds doesn't prove WHICH human minds have correctly conceived of it, or that the MAJORITY of minds has correctly conceived of it. I gave you an interesting counter example. What if a minority of human minds comes up with a moral arrangement that would create even more happiness for the majority than the arrangement endorsed by the majority? You haven't explained why this "minority" morality might not be the one that ACTUALLY maximizes human happiness.
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  2883.  @palestinevideos2025  "Humans have decided that homosexuality is immoral. Therefore it is." You still have a pure tautology. Majority morality is correct because majority morality is correct. Go for it.
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  2884.  @palestinevideos2025  "Any impartial observer would take an average where there is a difference in opinion" Pure garbage. If this were so, philosophers from Socrates to Kant, Bentham and John Rawls would not have thought to study the subject in full length bookstand treatises.
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  2885.  @palestinevideos2025  "now you resort to insults" Well you already called me a psychopath, so now we're even. :)
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  2886.  Apollox44 Pollo  Science is "Verifiable, provable knowledge of the material world through observation and experimentation." What do you think of this formulation:  "All of science is uncertain and subject to revision. The glory of science is to imagine more than we can prove."
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  2887.  Apollox44 Pollo  So if all of science is uncertain, how does that square with the definition of science being verifiable and provable? (The quote is from Freeman Dyson)
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  2888.  Apollox44 Pollo   Well here is another Scientific American article dated December 23, 2015: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-string-theory-science/?redirect=1 "Is string theory science? Physicists and cosmologists have been debating the question for the past decade. Now the community is looking to philosophy for help." How does this square with your comment that it isn't taken seriously by physicists? Why are they looking for help if they don't take it seriously? If you are correct, why was this published in Scientific American?
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  2889.  Apollox44 Pollo   This piece from Discover suggests again that the falsifiability requirement is arguably too stringent. In the below example, to rule out string theory completely would be to undercut its scientific usefulness: The New Calculus "Other physicists, meanwhile, are employing string theory methodologies in their study of extreme matter states — from the intensely hot plasmas produced in particle colliders to materials created in laboratories at temperatures close to absolute zero.  University College London physicist Andrew Green, who investigates the strange phases of matter that arise at ultra-frigid temperatures, never imagined getting into string theory, but has found it extremely worthwhile. Although it may not offer a comprehensive theory of reality, he says, 'it has ushered in the development of a new set of mathematical techniques that are useful in broad areas of physics.' "
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  2890.  Apollox44 Pollo  "Scientists ALWAYS say that science is a little uncertain. Even when they know with 99.9% accuracy." Reasonable position.
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  2891.  Apollox44 Pollo  Finally, my last thoughts for the evening. In the both the Discovery article, the Scientific American article I quoted from, and the NOVA article, we hear from scientists who have questioned the absoluteness of the falsifiability requirement. By contrast you wrote: "There are no scientists today who consider falsification controversial, not one." Are you sure you still stand by that?
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  2892.  Apollox44 Pollo  "They haven't questioned it, they're admitting it's the best standard, they just want lesser standards to count as science too." I don't think you're making sense here. By definition, if one wants a lessor standard to count as science too, that is the equivalent of saying falsifiability is not an absolute standard in all cases. Unless I'm missing something, what's the difference between these two views?
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  2893.  Apollox44 Pollo  I think we have exhausted the subject of falsifiability. To turn back to the major themes of the thread. In response to my claim morality is conceivably hardwired into us, you replied that "this is objectively false." Specifically you rejected the notion there could be an inborn distaste for cheaters. But there is also evidence that this disposition exists in primates too: "Brosnan said the response to the unequal treatment was astonishing: Capuchins who witnessed unfair treatment and failed to benefit from it often refused to conduct future exchanges with human researchers, would not eat the cucumbers they received for their labors, and in some cases, hurled food rewards at human researchers. Those actions were significant. They confirmed that not only did capuchins expect fair treatment, but that the human desire for equity has an evolutionary basis." I would say that's more of a suggestion than confirmation. Aside from that, any comments?
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  2894.  Apollox44 Pollo  "So yes, they expected fairness," Ah, but fairness is a moral concept, even if only in regards to yourself.   Now you can say they got all pissed because they just wanted more. Or, you could interpret it as a basic feeling of being wronged.  How can you be sure which it is?
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  2895. ​ Apollox44 Pollo  Fairness IMO is inherently a moral term. I think there are a few layers to unpack here. Fairness implies not just raw self-interested displeasure, but a condemnation or scolding to the collective, as you put it, that is cast in moral terms: you should know better than to treat me like this. That's the key implication: you should KNOW better.    I think the mistake you are making here (from my perspective) is saying that all forms of moral expression must be as fully evolved as our own.  We are primarily self-interested, and far less altruistic, and our moral codes usually reflect this. The fact we may not embrace a morality that cares about everyone's interests equally doesn't mean we don't have a genuine moral code. Similarly, that Capuchins aren't as morally evolved as us doesn't mean they don't have a sense of being wronged; and similarly, their moral sense would reflect these limitations too.  Fairness from a less universal perspective is more moral than no fairness at all, and still is making a statement to the collective. So I don't see how we can definitively rule out that the Capuchin's protest might well contain a genuinely moral component.
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  2896.  Apollox44 Pollo  "It's not about definitively ruling out that the Capuchin's protest might contain a moral component, " OK, let's go with that. It's not such a big jump from this to the claim morality may have a hardwiring component. I would call that reasonable speculation, even if not science. Are you open to this?
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  2897. ​ Apollox44 Pollo  "Furthermore, it goes against the natural instinct for self-preservation above all." This has been the traditional paradox of morality, given that we are self-interested. There's been much work done on this problem since the 1990s, utilizing tools such as game theory. We now have some tentative answers to explain this. The gist of these theories go something like this: It's in our rational self-interest to cooperate with others because we get more of what we want. The problem is, why aren't we all cheaters as well? A cheater reaps the benefits of social cooperation, as well as the extra servings he gets by cheating people. The answer that's been proposed, and has now gained quite a bit of traction is that while people are good at deceiving others, they are also able to detect cheaters much of the time. So, paradoxically, if you can convince someone you genuinely are moral, you will be trusted more often, and enhance your self-interest through social cooperation. And the easiest and best way to convince others you are moral is to become genuinely moral. This is the fascinating paradox of morality: it may well have emerged precisely because it benefits our self-interest.
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  2898.  Apollox44 Pollo  Well I think this might be a good time to end the dialogue. I appreciate your being a good sport. Take care.
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  2899. ​@Renzo Alarcón Aren't they?
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  2900. @Renzo Alarcón  I had never thought of that! You are doing very well tonight indeed.
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  2901.  Mutated Pearl  But deeming it a crime is precisely where the hypocrisy lies. Telling the West to mind its own business contradicts African leaders refusal to mind THEiR own business. Adults don't obsess about what goes on in the bedroom. Only busy bodies do.
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  2902.  @njgrant3988  You are ignorant of basic history. It's well known that the British not only ended the Atlantic slave trade, but put pressure on many African nations to end domestic slavery, which they did. Your theme that only whites do bad things has no place in a serious discussion. It is racism.
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  2903.  @njgrant3988  I wasn't very aware of the Canadian history. That's deplorable. But I don't know what you mean by "your people." Does that mean whites? Americans? The history of the world is replete with atrocity committed by virtually every race and nation, The US decimated the local population. But the local populations also were at war with each other, before the arrival of Europeans. Whites bought slaves from the Africans. Slavery within Africa predated the Atlantic slave trade and still hasn't been completely eliminated. Do "white" nations enslave Africans or native peoples today? We cannot judge atrocity by the color of the oppressors. They come in all varieties.
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  2904.  @armaan1091  I think fear and ignorance have a lot to do with this. In the US for example, most people fear making incest or polygamy legal. And there may be some rational reasons to be concerned especially about incest. There are probably similar suspicions or concerns about how gays could poison some African societies. There's still this in in the US too witness the claim by fundamentalists homosexuality will bring down society, and others who say it spreads disease and undermines the traditional family. So it may not just be disgust or hatred, but fear.
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  2905. ​ @254react  In the US the practice of polygamy is effectively legal as few polygamous men seek more than one marriage license. I would favor legalizing polygamy if there's a reasonable proof it would not cause any more harm to society than either gay or monogamous marriages. Perhaps there is such a proof. Given the testimony of many former polygamy wives under Mormonism, a case has been made the institution is anything but gender-neutral; and, traditionally polygamy has its historic roots in inequality and oppression of women. So I am open on this question for now. Thus there is no inherent lack of "authenticity" when a Westerner (or anyone) supports gay rights and gay marriage. Does this position sound reasonable to you?
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  2906.  @254react  I said I was fine with polygamy in theory. If it works as advertised, I have no objection. And even if I did have a problem with it, when push comes to shove I probably would relent and not favor outlawing it, based on my libertarian instincts. As like you said, no one is forced into such agreements. So the same should be true of gays. If it's voluntary, why would you object to it? Insulting societies: I am equally critical of my own society. Trump is horrendous. We have big racist problems as you mention. We have great wealth inequality, we pollute the environment. If Trump were a man of principle, he would sever all ties with Saudi Arabia until Prince Mohammed is brought to Justice over the Khashoggi murder. And all ties severed with Russia until Putin is brought to justice for the latest poisoning. Plenty to criticize. We (US) are the laughing stock of the world right now.
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  2907.  @AImighty_Loaf  I have no problem if you don't support gays or don't like them. It's life in prison that violates basic decency. I hope you would agree. The higher principle I appeal to is: mind your own business. That's a far more enlightened and less self centered view. Life is far too short to worry about who sleeps with whom. I'm sure you have more constructive things to do with your life.
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  2908.  @AImighty_Loaf  It depends on what you mean by force. The US is not about to go to war with Uganda over homosexuality. Nor is the gay community. I understand the frustration in dealing with activist groups. They can be ill-mannered, and perhaps I have been a bit. The way I see things is through the lens of basic principle. Take the issue of force. Let's refine that: the initiation of force. This is the only thing, in principle, with some basic exceptions like paying taxes, that may be unhypocritically objected to. The initiation of force starts with criminalizing non-violent behavior. It does not start with gay activists. They are REACTING to the violation of the non-force principle. That makes it fundamentally different. This is why, to me, there is no hypocrisy in condemning Uganda law. IT has initiated the use of violence, and extreme violence - life in prison - against gays. If you or Uganda law differ with me, and what we in the West call enlightenment values, then we have to leave it at that. I am not saying you are an evil person. You seem like a far more reasonable person than many anti-gay posters.
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  2909.  @ChristopherLaw-qv4ou  Welcome to the never-ending thread. They would prosecute. But prosecution per se does not determine morality per se. The issues are complex.
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  2910.  @edgysnarfbrownie5778  There's no proof it's "objectively bad." Or if there is, you need to provide it. As to not liking homosexuality, fine.
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  2911.  @wb6012  They shouldn't. But "bigoted" is not about what one is "against," rather, it has to do with WHY they are against it.
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  2912.  @Token-j1n  I've posted many replies. What part are you referring to?
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  2913. Impossible, as there is no God against which one can turn their back.
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  2914. They probably never thought that.
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  2915. What would you do if you had exclusively gay attraction?
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  2916. So the International Space Station was faked too?
    1
  2917.  @rockethead7  Ah, I see. The CTists mental development is equal to that of a 3-year old. No argument from me.
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  2918. ​ @johnstedman4075  If you are saying the "swiss cheese" paradigm is potentially misleading and overplayed in the media, that may be true. One example might be the Pan Am missing the assigned exit. That's overplayed to death here at Youtube, but in the words of the official report, this error wasn't "very relevant." But the model is still true in the obvious sense there HAD to be all these secondary factors for Tenerife to happen.
    1
  2919. "A person commits minor violations of the regulations," Yes. But here, there's more to the story. The take off was not a minor violation but a major transgression, almost certainly not committed many times before. Except for general aviation aircraft, such errors are very rare. And just to be clear, it's also very doubtful the KLM captain was consciously committing the violation of take off rules.
    1
  2920. The phone calls do indeed admit to the truth. The passenger revolt foiled the hijackers.
    1
  2921.  @loirenhuh  "he is not support animals," Animals? What are you talking about. Well the US had its most secure presidential election in history. Compare to president-for-life Museven. All leaders have blood on their hands. But few could match Museveni's thirst for bloodshed: the most notorious mass murder in Uganda's history. Did Biden slaughter 54 Trump protesters last election? Does he excuse the murderers? Do Ugandan citizens have the same freedoms we do? Do they fear arrest and torture for free expression?
    1
  2922.  @julia2k8  Yes, I agree with you on woke western garbage. But calling for the slaughtering of gays, as Musevini does, is a thousand times worse. I hope we can find common ground on this.
    1
  2923. To be honest, society, I think, has a blind spot with such crimes. You would be surprised how many adults do not understand how serious the trauma can be. That suggests you don't have to be a monster to commit such a crime.
    1
  2924.  @suspectdown5133  What was the purpose of flight 93?
    1
  2925.  @suspectdown5133  Because such questions to me are a diversion and have absolutely no significance of any sort. HOWEVER, I will for the sake of being a good sport, tell you that I don't know the answer. Kindly tell us who that passenger is and why it has any significance to the truth of what happened to flight 93.
    1
  2926.  @suspectdown5133  Now after all that passionate protest, he disappears. Seriously, I would like to know why this is significant. And I would like to learn more about the two phone numbers for Edward Felt. The other issues you bring are easily dealt with. What do you say if we have a respectful conversation? I would like to learn from you anything I am missing.
    1
  2927.  @suspectdown5133  Don't know what diatribe you're talking about. OK< I will look it up. But after I do, please say why you think it's significant, as I am going to guess there ultimately is not significance I will be able to find.
    1
  2928.  @suspectdown5133  OK, so I looked him up. It's certainly a little known detail, and worthy of inclusion given the connection to aviation. The son of Leonard Greene, who was a GA pilot. All very interesting. There's only one nagging question: What does this have to do with questioning the official narrative?
    1
  2929.  @suspectdown5133  No, this is not about me. If it is, then you have an unhealthy obsession. You are in a state of virtual rage, and for what possible reason? "Researched to death," yes, about RELEVANT things, not about the personal history of each and every passenger, but in relation to the absurd claim flight 93 did not crash at Shanksville, or that it was otherwise part of some absurd plot, or that it was shot down. "remember being asked about the time of the claimed take off time of the plane years ago ?" I'm not 100% sure, but I do know that I may have mentioned the Southwest crash in Chicago c2005, where similarly there was either inaccurate or missing data. What I would say now, as then, is that you cannot treat any one number as sacrosanct, as there could be many reasons why that number is wrong. Unfortunately, I have so far learned absolutely nothing new from you that has any relevance to the official narrative. I am only hearing obsession with me, and bucket loads of hostility. If you can't add anything of relevance, then you have proven absolutely nothing. And like everyone else, past and present, you have not presented any sensible theory why the government would spend so much time faking an utterly useless crash. That is 100 times more relevant than any bizarre conjecture on your part.
    1
  2930.  @suspectdown5133  Other people said the hole was 30 feet wide. You latch on to a particular quote or claim, and act as if it is sacrosanct. So if BTS says, say, 6:15p, then that is absolute proof in your mind. You make a big deal about a passenger who's father is x y z. WHO THE F CARES. So you only brought that up to prove how bad a researcher am? How petty is that. In all these years you have yet to disprove the official narrative, and have no interest in nor clue why a government would wish to target an empty field. I mean why not a rabbit habitat, or a mink farm? You refuse to see the Big Picture because you are lost in the trees. You are what they call an anomaly hunter. These people never win because they cannot connect the dots into a coherent, sensible alternate theory. The fact is, even if it were proven to your satisfaction that flight 93 crashed at Shanksville, there would still be all these little tidbits that seem odd. It's the nature of any huge event. That principle also doesn't figure into your methodology. Now if you want to keep raging, go right ahead. If you have an actual proof of something new, kindly share it with me. But your approach is that of a child carrying a personal grudge god know how many years. Get over it.
    1
  2931.  @suspectdown5133  I found your Wally Miller video. It struck me as not the most precise. Yes, he didn't explain the exact angle of nose down, or whether it was upside down. Was he asked that specifically? Similarly, was he asked about the landing gear? Was he asked to give a complete and detailed description of every last element of the crash? So I don't know what is so surprising here. He did not see the impact, after all. But what he DOES state does appear to corroborate the basics. We discussed the engine part found in the catch basin by the state trooper. He confirmed that (it was an engine PART). I have heard from several sources the cockpit exploded into the trees. That's what Tim Lambert personally told me in an email many years ago. Others have said the "front third" of the plane went into the trees. If I am missing something, and you want to reply, can you kindly do it in a civil way rather an accusatory way.
    1
  2932.  @suspectdown5133  Thank you for your reply. I don't see that any of these details puts much of a dent in to the official narrative. Lots of people are sloppy communicators. He seems to be one of them. ----------------------- OK, below is my latest "rant." It seems, then and now, you have not attempted to share all the results of your research. I know despite everything else, that you’re good at it. But your style, then and now, is to throw out pieces of bait, isolated tidbits that you then instruct others to research. The way scholars make their case, as you well know, is to present their entire body of evidence. I welcome you to make your case in full. And you cannot continue to duck from the obvious fact that yours so far has been a plot without a purpose. As with any murder trial, a credible motive is part of that investigation. By saying “lame,” you don’t help your case. Just my HO. Go for it. I know you are plenty smart. Make your case in full. Here, or somewhere else. Anomaly hunting, as I have said, is not a reliable methodology for two reasons: huge complex events are messy, and by nature will tend to generate a slew of hard-to-explain elements or mysteries. I remember Chomsky's famous remark that even under controlled laboratory conditions, contradictions abound. The other is that anomalies, since they are often mysteries, can just as easily resolve in favor of the less expected outcome. As in the case of the "747 engine" found at ground zero. A quick trip to Boeing's website reveals that 747 and 767 engines are interchangeable. And that's just one of many.
    1
  2933.  @suspectdown5133  I'm giving you the opportunity, then as now, to flesh out your case. How come you won't?
    1
  2934.  @suspectdown5133  OK, we've got it. You have not provided any proof flight 93 was faked. As you stated years ago, I am the one obligated to go on a search for wild cards. But you, the person who has done all this research, refuses to share it. This, as they say, isn't even wrong. If it won't fit into an inbox, I invite you to write a full length expose, or even book. I'd love to read it. But until you produce it, you cannot expect reasonable people to just throw up their hands and agree with you. I'm giving you every chance to prove yourself.
    1
  2935. But in this case he's 100% right. Since you cannot plagiarize punctuation marks, it shows the intellectual level of Mohammed.
    1
  2936. You need a cruelty management program. It's so out of line with what she did. Sensible people are in agreement about this. The dark side of human nature thrives here, as your post demonstrates.
    1
  2937. "OLIVE GREEN......" Where are you seeing that, and what does it mean?
    1
  2938.  @suspectdown5133  Am I supposed to have an encyclopedic memory? I just don't remember olive color. So, what is the significance, or is it just an unexplained oddity?
    1
  2939.  @suspectdown5133  What does that have to do with me?
    1
  2940.  @titteryenot4524  Yes, but I lowered the bar to just life in prison. There is no moral justification for that penalty without one being a fundamentally intolerant person.
    1
  2941.  @jegamespeed5399  I agree I agree, not suggesting that my views are absolute truth. But at the same time, it raises the question of principle. What is harm, and how should it be punished? If you were to come up with a set of principles that spells out what actions should receive life in prison, what would it be? Wouldn't significant harm to others be a reasonable boundary line to answer that question? What is it about gay activity that is so horrific in your mind? Is it physical danger? Emotional trauma? Disgust? The breakdown of society?
    1
  2942. Hi, great story!! Comment: something isn't adding up in my mind. How could the loss of just one engine put the plane in such danger? Even with a 4% loss of thrust in engine #2, you still about 3/4ths of available thrust. I don't get how the margin of safety could be this flimsy. Thoughts?
    1
  2943.  @jp5000able  Well I'm supposing this isn't the first fully loaded 747 to lose an engine while taking off in hot weather.
    1
  2944. So you want a domestic terrorist as president. You want a man who promotes violence, sides with violent groups, a sore loser and a crybaby. How can you fall for this, and his big fat lie? Too much right wing TV I suspect. And I say this as a certified libertarian who hates Biden with a passion. But the choice here is really between civilization, and a group of thugs.
    1
  2945. Governments also take advantage of tragedy created by others. But that never happens, right?
    1
  2946.  @smitty2307  And this time they took advantage while the truth mvt created.
    1
  2947.  @cubismo85  How so??
    1
  2948. The Truth movement peddles theirs, so why not?
    1
  2949. You are a good person who has been led astray by blind belief or hubris or a failure of empathy. Being a person of good will means not making statements for which you do not possess the appropriate knowledge.
    1
  2950. Debatable.
    1
  2951. Most of it was buried, just as was the case of Ethiopian flight 302.
    1
  2952. I think it would still be exciting in their eyes. There's always the natural fear of falling.
    1
  2953.  @nadimnaouach5839  Sorry to say, paper items surviving violent plane crashes is nothing new or unusual.
    1
  2954.  @lilymiller3522  I hate to break it to you, but paper and cloth items surviving even violent plane crashes is neither new nor surprising. It is a common place.
    1
  2955. You are amputating context. While it was a spontaneous act of self-defense no doubt, it was ultimately triggered by Travis' decision to point his gun directly at Arbery several seconds before he became a legitimate threat. So while I would argue against first or even 2nd degree murder, a manslaughter type of offense seems the appropriate crime, which still calls for a significant jail sentence. We can't condone people going around committing assault with a deadly weapon when they are the ones recklessly provoking people who have yet to indicate an intent to harm.
    1
  2956.  @CTS1661  Most likely because anti-death penalty advocates have made it so.
    1
  2957. Nope, wrong.
    1
  2958. It's easy to hate one of the most hate filled men in America.
    1
  2959. Go ahead, just babble away. You have not an ounce of evidence to back up your religious drivel.
    1
  2960.  gumby chew  You're a homo too. We are all homo sapiens.
    1
  2961. So should I call you a sick troll for being mistaken? I have more grounds than you did, since I just gave you the direct Sanders' quote proving that what I stated is 100% correct. You preach science but don't practice it. Sanders got 15 elements in common. In science, this result is called "inconclusive" because lots of things have elements in common. Sanders could have chosen to do an infrared spectroscopy, which would have been able to give a conclusive result, but he chose against it.
    1
  2962. Isn't it possible to find someone whom you respect but is not also a criminal, indeed the country's worst mass murderer in its history? Any thug will do as long as they hate gays?
    1
  2963. Why don't you tell your God to stop killing people.
    1
  2964. It sounds good to say babies. But it doesn't prove abortion is wrong.
    1
  2965.  @TKO67  So let's see here. I challenge you, and that proves you're right. You win the prize for the most brain-dead comment of the day. Go for it.
    1
  2966. Well there you have it. When one is made a fool of, what else to do but go on a posting orgy full of more expletives. Now suddenly he want's to talk evidence. How is that? You're now a confirmed BS artist, proved by direct quotation and page #s. YOU LIED. Why should I continue with you? You're a teenager. Adults don't argue with teenagers.
    1
  2967. That's right. Because being among the most self-ranked miserable people on earth, Ugandan's are desperate to find at least one thing to celebrate.
    1
  2968. "The anthropologist James Christenson, who published what is probably the first-ever study of homosexuality in Ghana in the 1950s, established that “men who have sex with men” were an integral, but obscured, part of Ghanaian culture and sexual relations. . . .The notion that same-sex relations simply 'appeared' in Ghana as a Western import or through contact with (white) foreigners is cast into further doubt by Dela Attipoe, a Ghanaian expert who has similarly studied the history of homosexuality in Ghana. He concluded that “It is not a recent phenomenon being visited on Ghana and Ghanaians by ‘whites’ or foreigners”, and that “It is practically happening everywhere..." Nice try.
    1
  2969.  @repelsteeltje310  Knowledge is power.
    1
  2970. @David But God allegedly created everything. By definition, that would include homosexual attraction. So why did He create that which He's against?
    1
  2971.  @Србомбоница86  In these threads the focus has been on the West, versus Africa. Not the whole world.
    1
  2972. Further to what user-m8ix wrote, the Pan Am error was, as stated in the final report, "not very relevant." To see why, ask yourself this question: had there been no taxiway #3, what do you think ATC would have done? IMO, given that they were eager to move things quickly, they almost certainly would have told the Pan Am to take taxiway #4 !! Then, no one would be talking about the Pan Am error. If there was anything to complain about the Pan Am, it might be their decision to follow ATC's instruction and taxi onto an active runway. While the final report stated this was "potentially hazardous," perhaps actually hazardous would be more apt.
    1
  2973. It may have been a rational decision though. But if not, you cannot call it an unsafe decision.
    1
  2974.  @kaizersolze  Because, and here I guess, based on the alleged argument among the KLM crew, there was also the risk that because of the onslaught of all the diverted traffic at Las Palmas, there might be a long wait for fuel once they arrived there. BTW, where did it say they had enough fuel to make it back to Amsterdam? I don't recall reading that anywhere. Nor would it make any sense, given the time pressure they were under. Bottom line, this was a logistics issue, not a safety one.
    1
  2975.  @kaizersolze  Of course. Very few except maybe the Dutch government would disagree. Why he did is a matter of some speculation.
    1
  2976. Yes, the major fraud includes both the government, and the truth movement itself. The latter being by far the more dishonest.
    1
  2977.  @illumination101  And neither 1 nor 2 happened.
    1
  2978.  @jamespage7998  Indeed. It's bordering on mental disorder to claim the government wished to target an empty field in the middle of nowhere. This would be the first government conspiracy in history targeting blades of grass. Does the truth movement, or at least the fringe part of it found on YouTube, not see the absolute perversion of normal thinking in such absurd fantasies?
    1
  2979.  @marleneg7794  You haven't demonstrated any critical thinking skills as of yet. In any case, "truthers" in general are no different than debunkers. They are no less slaves to their favorite false narratives. As regards 93, I have already mentioned the most absurd part of the truther narrative of faked wreckage: there is no reason to blow up a field in the middle of nowhere. Are you willing to answering that?
    1
  2980. That's the lie propagated by people who lack rigorous minds, who don't understand the nature of evidence, have shockingly poor research skills, and have little common sense. The truth mvt has all of the classic traits of Grand CTs: they don't publish in science journals. They are not experts, they can't do basic research (the lie that "cell phones can't work above 8k ft". They are more interested in collecting signatures (witness A&E for Truth) and cannot acknowledge their huge errors (witness pilotsfortruth refuted F77 fdr analysis.) In short, telemarketing and tabloid journalism. If you can't tell the difference, then you aren't a real truth teller.
    1
  2981. Dr. Phil has many flaws. But I never would have guessed in a million years mental illness is one of them.
    1
  2982. Mankind's continued stupidity and thirst for profit. Lacking radar approaches, it was at the time basically a violation of instrument flight rules to conduct any operation under instrument conditions at this airport. But that didn't stop Iberia and many other airlines scheduling flights there. Shameful.
    1
  2983. Spare us your drivel.
    1
  2984. I did climate change.
    1
  2985.  @624Eduardo  Based on what?
    1
  2986.  @StevePemberton2  Hello there again! Lots of good points as ususal. I have two more things to say, Like the Dutch report and Bartelski, MP does not ever say the captain Van Zanten's error was the primary cause of the crash, at least within the given system. I think that's a legitimate criticism especially as it opens one up to the charge of bias. I think, once again, the failure to inform ATC about having missed C3 is not as significant as so many people say. Firstly, it's entirely possible they missed seeing it because of the terrible visibility. But more importantly, ATC always knew Pan Am was still taxiing. A final point which I think backs up this position is: had ATC instead direct Pan Am to C4, would those so critical of the Pan Am have called this a major error on the part of ATC? Somehow I don't think so. Which is more proof the error was not very relevant.
    1
  2987. Can't be murder unless she used lethal force??. Force is the key word. It raises the more basic question, is a text literally a lethal weapon? Another question: do we know for a fact suicidal depression renders you mentally incompetent? If so, why not declare that all suicidaly depressed people have no right to make their own decisions? I'm just asking questions here.
    1
  2988. The people who do twoofism have tiny brains.
    1
  2989. Finally, one of those animated passengers we always see in these mini videos is actually carrying a bag to the stairs.
    1
  2990. But the jury gets a questionable grade.
    1
  2991. There is no proof beyond a reasonable doubt this was a false flag, or that nukes were used. But, governments frequently take advantage of tragedy to further their power and greed. That's a far more likely explanation.
    1
  2992. It can't work without electricity. So just pull the plug if it misbehaves.
    1
  2993. Sure thing, the evidence is all fake, even though you have zero proof. What is it about truthers that it's the LACK of evidence that motivates them? The less evidence the better.
    1
  2994.  @kathierouse6046  Well it's all out there if you google it.
    1
  2995. As Noam Chomsky has said, the easiest thing in the world to do is submit a paper to a science or engineering journal where it can be evaluated. But 911 truth chooses instead to operate in isolation, and thus has no peer review science papers.
    1
  2996. "it is architecturally impossible for a building to pancake down like that." I'm not trying to convince you of anything. BUT, how do you know this? Do you have a degree in structural engineering? Have you spoken to a demo expert? Words don't mean much without high quality evidence. Like the type found in engineering journals or the type of research papers written by experts of the subject matter. Can you meet this challenge?
    1
  2997. More likely, he's a garden variety psychopath.
    1
  2998.  @FloridaGiantsWereReal  Ask God. He allegedly designed us.
    1
  2999.  @FloridaGiantsWereReal  "You think god turns out traumatized shooters..?" Yes. In the sense that He knew in advance all these things were going to happen, and that all the universe is His Creation. No one forced Him to create it, which He knew, and apparently approved, would lead to great evil. That was His choice. He can't be absolved of responsibility, any more than the maker of a defective product. That said, I don't deny the precise explanation of what makes a school killer tick is complicated. But there's little doubt that some serial killers are hardwired differently than you and me. This has been shown in studies where most people flinch when shown depictions of people being hurt. Psychopaths do not, indicating a different emotional circuitry.
    1
  3000. This is just the typical female trait of causing needless escalations (and yes, you can call me misogynist, because thoughtless replies are to be expected on Youtube.) But seriously, can you imagine a man doing this? Men excel at violence, so they're actually worse. In any case, stereotypes aside, who is the one suffering the most right now? The family will get their private jet to Disneyland, and the rest of us are having all this fun being mean and nasty. The punishment has now way overpowered the original crime. Let her alone.
    1
  3001. What would you do if you were a homosexual?
    1
  3002.  @rx3oc  I can understand that. So does that mean if you were gay, you would you refrain from acting on the attraction?
    1
  3003.  @carlososler7024  If God is so against homosexuality, why did he create it?
    1
  3004. I agree, they should not be in jail for now. But that doesn't excuse their unwise and illegal pursuit.
    1
  3005. We heard you the first time.
    1
  3006.  @truvintage5800  Flight 93 is a bad addiction, I agree. But you gotta admit, the idea that allegedly sane adults think we needed to blow up some dirt field in the middle of nowhere to fight a war - that's priceless.
    1
  3007.  @truvintage5800  Thank you for your reply. "I don't think any sane adult thinks that act a lone..." Of course. It's the idea it was a vital element in the alleged plot. Is absolutely anything short of science fiction possible? Maybe so. But if you have too many of those elements, you have a very week theory. I see this undercutting the truth mvt at many levels. The alleged demolitions themselves are another example. And do you need to demolish a skyscraper 7 hours later to destroy a few computer files? The government was looking for any excuse to invade Iraq. Even one plane strike would have been seized upon to justify it. And why did they make the (alleged) hijackers be Saudis and not Iraqis? None of this makes any sense. I agree with you the government is up to its ears in lies. But the overlooked factor are the lies of the truth mvt. Although at cross purposes, they would make ideal partners in deception. Neither can be trusted.
    1
  3008. Why do you want to push your values on gays? If you want the West to mind its own business, why not practice what you preach? Mind your own business and stop sticking your nose in other people's bedrooms.
    1
  3009.  @_leokaye1182  "Modern day Babylon will get destroyed the same way Sodom and Gomorrah did and the same way ancient Babylon did." For which you can cite zero proof. That's the problem with majoring in Bedroom management.
    1
  3010.  @_leokaye1182  Do you always "like" your own posts?
    1
  3011. How can you possibly know it's cheating: EITHER they each had the same set of notes in their lap during the exam, or they had the same set of notes when they studied together beforehand. Go for it.
    1
  3012.  @thematic3893  Just wondering. If you woke up tomorrow and found yourself having gay attraction, what would you do about it, if anything?
    1
  3013.  @virtualmask  The problem for me is that gays and therefore gay culture are a part of Africa. So is it wrong to respect that part of the culture too? Are majority views the only ones deserving respect? Much of that depends on what one thinks about cultural or moral relativism. To me, moral relativism is self-refuting if you do the logic, as ultimately there's no hard and fast line between one group and another. Thus moral /cultural relativism cannot in principle rule out every person having their own moral code. When that happens, you get anarchy.
    1
  3014. ​ @scarlett2299  Just so you don't think I'm a completely humorless woke bloke, I admit that for a fleeting nanosecond my laugh reflex was almost activated.
    1
  3015.  @thematic3893  I do understand and agree. There is a cultural difference here. But there's also plenty of misunderstanding too. I think that's part of the problem. While there is as yet no absolute scientific consensus on the causes of homosexuality, the evidence is by now very clear that people don't choose it. Oh yes, of course we can choose our behavior. But the attraction itself is not chosen. This is what the debate is really about, at least in the US. But the debate is often totally misconstrued, as if we had to be told that we can choose our behavior. So I think once we can agree that these attractions are basically a part of us, and not chosen, we might be on the path to at least an improved understanding. "so confused that I take part in this thing? " This is what I mean. Confusion has nothing to do with gay attraction. You either have it or you don't. The only people who meaningfully choose, for the most part, are bisexuals. Thank you for your reply.
    1
  3016.  @thematic3893  I agree, morality is not objective. But it may not be totally relative either. There is no song and dance, just giving you my opinions. These are philosophical debates that transcend the US versus Uganda, and have been debated for centuries. As to whether the West's morality is above Uganda's is a question of culture and standards and religion and so on. But you can still have the opinion if you want to, that in some areas one culture is fairer and juster than the other. They are not necessarily all equal. For me personally, I'm not saying overall your or my country has better morality in any objective sense. But personally, I feel the principle of minding one's own business and not jailing whom we disapprove of is a more evolved morality. Is the US better than Uganda that way? As we've discussed, not necessarily. The US plays policeman --- OK, God if you like -- with the rest of the world. Outrageous? I think so. But relatively speaking we are not as obsessed with what goes on between consenting adults in the privacy of their own home. Yes, the pronoun thing is way out of hand. But the last time I checked, no one has been jailed for that in the US. There was a case in Germany recently. Terrible. But the jail sentence was for trespassing after he was told to leave. Very different than being jailed for minding your own business.
    1
  3017. The BBC knew because they were told the collapse was expected. They reported it erroneously, because the media make these mistakes all the time. But of course, the media can never be trusted - except when it supports your side.
    1
  3018. Because gravity pulls things straight down.
    1
  3019. The Dutch eventually admitted responsibility. Their initial report didn't so much blame any particular factor. Its strategy was to make all the errors look minor, and therefore no one, including Van Zanten, could be singled out.
    1
  3020. Not as dumb as you think they are.
    1
  3021. Another terrible country.
    1
  3022.  @loleryyibooooy5542  That's powerful, man.
    1
  3023. Not all sensible people agree with execution. If you can only see your side, that says more about you than Americans.
    1
  3024. Sometimes they do. Recently a 6th grade/7th grade teacher got 20 years.
    1
  3025. You are accepting at face value the lies of the truth movement. See for example the IEEE Spectrum 2003 cell phone study, confirming cell calls connected at all phases of flight. But the truth movement, in its passion for dishonesty, only want you to hear about the Ontario study, involving a single small plane in a single urban area, versus 37 jetliners up and down the east coast for the bigger study, Nice try.
    1
  3026. Your silence proves that you're wrong.
    1
  3027. We don't need to exaggerate to get the point.
    1
  3028. It shouldn't take a rocket science or a neurosurgeon to figure out the obvious. Thank you for helping the intellectually challenged.
    1
  3029. How would you define perversion? Is it objective? Or just intuitive? Is it just the Bible, i.e. the unproven word of God? What happens when two intelligent and thoughtful people disagree about what perversion is?
    1
  3030. Why do you think so?
    1
  3031. "Anyone running around with a gun killing people have to be a little fucking crazy." Not if it's self defense.
    1
  3032. Yes, Trump is increasingly losing republican support. They are getting sick of him. Once bully always a bully. He would install fascism long before Biden would. You know, martial law, tampering with the constitution, our freedoms would be gone faster than Tucker could produce a new video. All gone, done with. Now we can move on.
    1
  3033. But in this case, wasn't the pilot adhering to the tower's instructions?
    1
  3034.  @LukeBCtown  Oh, I get it now.
    1
  3035.  @daveh4925  Everyone's different. Also, she gives it to the officer. And maybe there's no reporter in sight. Is she just supposed to wait there as the building is spewing debris? I would run away pretty quickly. wouldn't you?
    1
  3036. It won't.
    1
  3037.  @youtube_bat3811  I'm not saying it absolutely can't be done, but the popular idea computer consciousness is likely just around the corner has no evidence in its favor. If you think there is, kindly provide it. I have yet to hear even the most rudimentary idea how this could happen. -Do we know the first thing about how consciousness works? No. -Do we know how to design consciousness? No. I-f we don't know how it's built, how can WE build it? -The brain is all chemicals. Are you proposing we pour chemicals between the walls of a computer? -They say silicon can substitute. OK, let's go with that. Do you have the code for consciousness? Can you post it online for public review? Do you have a model for how to transform silicon into consciousness? If the answer is no to all of the above, why would it be likely we could have sentient computers any time in the near future?
    1
  3038. Not if you don't have free will.
    1
  3039.  @gggggg22322  Just to expand on this: For those who claim free will doesn't exist at all, isn't that self-refuting? If you have no free will, then you have no free will to believe you don't have free will. Or does knowledge require free will? If I know that 2+2 = 4, then presumably I cannot come to believe 2+2 =5. Or could I? This endless stream of questions makes the question frustratingly complex.
    1
  3040. Full blown bot.
    1
  3041. You're generalizing from a bunch of perverts.
    1
  3042.  @daisydaisy7873  "an equal status of power" I agree about status, but an interesting question is, do women seek power as much as men do? If not, should they? Or for that matter, do they? And if we say, "yes they should," isn't that accepting "masculine" standards as the norm?
    1
  3043.  @daisydaisy7873  Do you think hardwiring could play at least some small role here?
    1
  3044.  @daisydaisy7873  "can you elaborate on what hardwiring is? English isn’t my first language" Sure. Hardwiring is a term borrowed from electronics. It means in our context, inborn. In essence a genetic predisposition to something. So fear, for example is in our hardwiring. The big sociobiological question is: do differences in behavior and temperament between men and women have a possible biological component?
    1
  3045.  You don't have to know my name  Of course. I'm just wondering if there's a difference as a whole. Do men as a whole, on average, value power, status and money more than women?
    1
  3046. Yes, it seems both sides are ultra polarized as usual. I think it's just as ridiculous to say these 2 men acted wisely and judiciously.
    1
  3047.  @alisonschmitt9533  As a figure of speech, maybe.
    1
  3048. Easy to say, hard to prove. What else is new in the neighborhood of make believe.
    1
  3049. Can you at least spare us on a memorial day.
    1
  3050. Enough.
    1
  3051. Sociopath though he is, there may have been some reasonable doubt in that case.
    1
  3052.  @justicegraceful2171  And I could well be wrong. I debate this case periodically with a friend of mine who thinks I'm all off on this. So he helps keep me modest I suppose. Great conversation. Thank you.
    1
  3053. Ans black people don't understand that not all white police - black suspect shootings are racist. They rush to judgement.
    1
  3054. If so it was probably a blimp, just like this one.
    1
  3055. Mounds of evidence it crashed. Zero evidence it was faked. Go for it.
    1
  3056. I don't see how you can possibly know that. We hear the first shot literally less than a second after Arbery moves towards Travis. It's right in this video at 1:27. The medical examiner also made it clear the first shot happened when Arbery's hand was well within reach of the gun.
    1
  3057.  @yampy1353  "without any body contact," I agree, it doesn't look likely. But it's not something that can be demonstrated using the laws of physics, is it? In any case, the key takeaway for me is, can we use this video to prove malice murder?
    1
  3058. So who else besides airbus makes better planes? And, are they that much better?
    1
  3059. What direction would you expect it to go?
    1
  3060. Yes, the internet has done huge damage to society.
    1
  3061.  @edwardcatton1047  You as well.
    1
  3062. You are as stupid as they come if you think gorillas are more valuable than innocent children. Absolutely insane.
    1
  3063. I would go further. Sue the chapter IX rule makers for emotional distress.
    1
  3064. Another know-it-all who knows nothing.
    1
  3065. He was in a rush. But that doesn't mean it couldn't happen to you.
    1
  3066. It might but that assumes there won't be any ground braking changes in potential futures.
    1
  3067. Labrie is no one's role model, and I feel for the victim if that's what really happened. But if in a court of law you are found not guilty of rape, that should be the end of it. Prosecuting teen sex when you already know the alleged victim, and are only a few years older, is in need of reform. That's why many states now have an age-difference clause, in recognition of the absurd spector of calling teen sex rape. Is Labrie really a dangerous person? Not unless millions of other teens are as well.
    1
  3068.  @laurenpage3548  I agree with you. But here, the jury found him not guilty of 1st degree rape or whatever it's called. I have my doubts about the truth of the matter too. You can never be too sure. To me, he paid his price as his reputation will be with him for life. Sex offender registry is ridiculous IMO. cheers
    1
  3069.  FRANCO PEREZ  What about a serial rapist?
    1
  3070.  FRANCO PEREZ  Do you think they are more likely to be democrats or republicans?
    1
  3071.  @h1F595  Welcome to 911 truth, one of the most shocking collection of lies, fraud, crackpot scholarship and mentally disordered judgement in the business.
    1
  3072. Don't think there's enough crashes to support that.
    1
  3073. Yes, the computerized proof that wasn't. I couldn't agree more.
    1
  3074. It's too bad that the "only honest" one is also a thug, Uganda's most depraved mass murderer, surpassing the death tolls of both Amin and Obote combined. But to each his own.
    1
  3075. I Don't know who slayer is, but they are absolutely right. If God created the world, it's his baby.
    1
  3076.  @shauntaylor9503  What about the proven link between the war on drugs and murder, the war on drugs and property crimes, in turning whole countries into war zones? If Marijuana causes psychosis and schizophrenia , that's a medical issue, not a criminal one. The point is, the criminalizing of these substances is an example of the cure being worse than the disease. If I have a joint in my pocket, and I'm an adult, and know the risk, and keep it from stinking up your property, that's really not your business. BUT, if it were left to my own selfish preferences, I would ban it because it stinks up public parks, gas stations, you name it. These users have no respect for anyone else.
    1
  3077.  @shauntaylor9503  Would you also be in favor or jailing people who smoke cigarettes? Cigarettes cause strokes, heart attacks and lung cancer, and amputations (when liked to diabetes,) and increases the risk for several other diseases. It also kills other through 2nd hand smoke.
    1
  3078. Well, more likely that they would hide it to keep the hero story part of the official history. The problem though is, there's precious little evidence it was shot down.
    1
  3079. Who is Walter?
    1
  3080. But would you also agree in the US, we have elements of both rape culture and anti-rape culture?
    1
  3081.  @saraha.7473  I don't get that impression, but I guess it depends on where one hangs out. For example, the Stanford rape case was one of two most high profile cases in the US in the last decade. It caused national outrage. I found not a single defender of it while perusing Youtube comments. The judge has since been kicked out, and then vice-president Biden (and other members of congress) praised the victim for speaking out. For me, the main problem with the rape culture paradigm is precisely its one sided nature. You will never see a rape culture presentation in a Western country that discusses the two cultures: rape and anti-rape. Anti-rape culture - which has a very strong, robust tradition in the US, is simply defined out of existence by virtue of never mentioning it. This fits with the theme of "rape culture" being the product of academic feminism, with its history of scare-mongering and advocacy statistics masquerading as scientific data witness the 1-in-5 figure. Poisoned by radical feminist overkill, I expect nothing less than absurdly worded definitions, such as that rape culture is the "prevailing view" in a society. How on earth does anyone know if it's the prevailing view unless you can somehow quantify and compare rape versus anti-rape culture? When anecdotes are one's primary source, you can not then go and make quantitative statements. Again I am only commenting on the West as I have little doubt rape culture is far more rampant in many societies. From what I see on Youtube, India and South Africa are among the worst offenders. And those despicable societies which tolerate so-called honor killings are an outrage as well. Just my impressions. Thank you for your thoughts.
    1
  3082. Why would you want to vote for a man who has called for "the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution." He wants to terminate our constitution. He thinks he has the right to be dictator. That's 10 times more corrupt and lunatic than anything any other president has said in history. And all because he can't accept his legitimate loss like a man.
    1
  3083. I think it was a reflex reaction, a survival instinct when being attacked. The kindest that can be said is, the three men used extremely bad judgement, got themselves in over their heads, then were forced to fire as a self-preservation instinct. But they choreographed the whole situation. So, like a screen writer looking for a dramatic plot, they selected a story line fraught with danger.
    1
  3084. You have to admit it's challenging for nonbelievers to accept God into their hearts when this god believes you should be stoned to death for mowing the lawn on Saturdays. And tells you how best to manage your slaves.
    1
  3085.  @radachelkollie4048  "Numbers 15:32-36 New King James Version Penalty for Violating the Sabbath 32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died." OK, help me understand this passage in its proper context. Thanks
    1
  3086.  @radachelkollie4048  Thank you for your reply. To me though, one has not to just look at the bible as a whole, but to ask a bigger question: does it really live up to its billing as the product of an omni-benevolent perfect Being? This is why I have my doubts: WHY would a loving being think that it's so wrong to work on Saturday that its one of the 10 commandments? Do we have to surrender our innate sense of right and wrong in order to satisfy a bizarre commandment such as this? Wouldn't you agree that "Thou shalt not own slaves" is much more deserving of a commandment than someone who wants to pick up sticks on Saturday? Do you see where I am going with this?
    1
  3087.  @radachelkollie4048  The thing is though, the bible makes many claims that do not make much sense, and which contradicts God's alleged loving nature. I gave the example of the man stoned to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. You said he got what he deserved. That's an inadequate reply. A loving being would never call for stoning someone to death just because he worked on Saturday. This conflicts with our innate sense of justice and fairness. It is evidence that at least part of the bible was authored by ancient peoples whose moral development was less enlightened than our own today.
    1
  3088.  @radachelkollie4048  Similarly, calling for the execution of a cursing child is evil and cruel in any conceivable context. You can say I am cherry picking only the parts that sound bad. I am not. I am picking parts that ARE bad, and because god is allegedly a perfect being, he is not allowed to have any genuinely evil sentiments. His alleged Perfection rules out such sentiments, which can be multiplied. For example, there's this one: "You'll watch as we happily smash your little children and babies against the stones" -Psalm 137 There is never a justification for smashing babies against the rocks. No matter what the context. This forces us to choose God's words or the Geneva Convention, which forbids inhumane treatment of captured enemies, especially their innocent babies. Which are you going to choose? baby-killing or humane treatment? Again, you have said this is all context dependent. So what context justifies baby killing?
    1
  3089.  @radachelkollie4048  Thank you for your reply. I will concede psalm 137 can be given different interpretations, though why that should even be in the Bible to begin with is problematic for me. It's not a question of "knowing what happened in Babylon," it's, who is the subject, and is this being encouraged or "blessed" by God? Maybe you know the answer to that better than I do.
    1
  3090.  @radachelkollie4048  BTW, thank you for being a very good sport. I am not attacking you personally in any way.
    1
  3091.  @radachelkollie4048  Good point.
    1
  3092. @stopcensoring.7959 What about auto mechanics?
    1
  3093.  @Catwoman48  I have always wondered about the Ionian see crash (the other TWA 841). I flew that route almost exactly a year later. Maybe you can answer this: since it appears TWA was following all rules and regulation, and even adding extra security by requiring checked bags to be ID'd as passengers headed for the stairs (I remember that quite well too,) on what basis was the judgement against them? It raises questions even today, as my understanding is that not all bags are X-rayed still.
    1
  3094. There may be some truth to what you say. But imagine if this were a case of drunk driving. Would we be wrong to punish someone just because they might be too drunk or stupid to recognize they were about to commit a potentially lethal crime?
    1
  3095. It's dangerous but ironically it also has a tendency to promote safety. If too many planes crash, passengers won't fly. This simple arithmetic means that since the airline industry is always growing, in order to keep the number of crashes from going up, the crash rate has to keep coming down. This is one reason why we live in an unprecedented era of almost no crashes, at least among the 1st tier airlines. The 737Max is disgraceful, but even it has not greatly affected this equation.
    1
  3096. Blacks don't get the death penalty for rape. So let's stop caricaturing reality. Racism is bad enough. No need to embellish it with extravagant claims.
    1
  3097. Absolutely, especially 911 truth sites. They are down the with the dregs, like the National Enquirer.
    1
  3098.  @supersnapp  On the subject of insulting one's intelligence I would vote for the bizarre idea that the government would hang its alleged plot on junk physics "that any 9th grade physics student could refute." Or decide to embrace impossible cell phone technology for an utterly useless crash in the middle of nowhere. Or that somehow the War on T and A and I depended on a bunch of heroes The government may be evil, but it's not completely insane or suicidal.
    1
  3099. Keep in mind though that flying today is literally orders of magnitude safer. US 1960-1980 countless crashes, 1000s of deaths. Last 20 years in US no crashes, 1 death. (excluding regionals)
    1
  3100.  @jeremysmith9694  Just saying, these are examples flying is safer overall. I chose the US because it does tend to matter where one flies. The first tier airlines of the West have for all intense and purposes have stopped having major crashes. Most of these airlines have gone 20-50 years since killing anyone. The worst thing to do is take some discount airline in Indonesia, or fly on African carriers. And I would have said that long before the MAX crashes! Just my thoughts. I am passionate about air safety, and so I tend to go on a bit. cheers
    1
  3101. Insanity is obsession with what goes on inside the bedroom. Mega-insanity is taking your snooping obsession and turning it into a 15 year jail term.
    1
  3102. I agree to a degree. But, it's ultimately hypocrisy to complain about the West enforcing its agenda, when that is exactly what Uganda has done to gays. They even proposed the death penalty for it. It's always interesting to me how selective reasoning works. The only country that's truly "enforcing" anything is Uganda. Jail = force. A CNN interview is not force but voluntary.
    1
  3103.  @thematic3893  And I return the compliment. You have not been hateful and abusive like many others. :) I guess what I don't understand is,Why is it so hard for you and others to do what you ask of the West: just to mind your own business. Don't try to control the lives of others. Just let gay people be, so long as they do the same to you. Why let it affect you?
    1
  3104.  @thematic3893  And how could you possibly know such a thing? Further, it already goes on whether it's legal or not.
    1
  3105.  @thematic3893  Thank you for your replies. A couple of points: -I asked you how you know acceptance of homosexuality will destroy the African people. You still have not provided evidence for that. I see it's a strong belief of yours. Do you think gays have destroyed the US? Britain? Most of Europe? -"You don’t care about us Africans" I don't see it that way. I wish nothing but justice for everyone in any continent or society. I believe there are certain principles of justice that are universal, regardless of culture. So I am well within my rights to respectfully disagree with you about what constitutes justice. That's all I have been doing here. - "when the truth is it is you that lacks the civility to keep your ideas to yourself" There is some truth to that because the West, at least Western governments and media, cannot seem to mind their own business, yet that's what they want Uganda to do when it comes to gays. However, I speak only for myself, and Youtube forums are (usually) open threads to discuss anything one wants. Since I believe justice and morality to have universal components, I reject the idea that only Uganda has an interest in Ugandans, or that only the US has an interest in the US. This may well be a fundamental divide in how people think. There may be no objective right or wrong here -"Africa shall never promote this lifestyle choice" Again, we have to be exact about definitions. Gay is not a lifestyle. It's primarily an attraction that is not chosen. The evidence for this is overwhelming.The idea people desire to become gay by watching too much Western TV is a ridiculous misconception. We are either born into, or reared into, our orientation, or by some combination of both. By the time a child is four or five, the basics of their personality are more or less set. Unless one is bisexual to begin with, the average person does not wake up one morning and say, "Gee, I think I will become a homosexual today." The recent rise of the LBGTQ movement has mistakenly lead some to conclude that people can choose to become gay by personal decree. That's another myth that deserves many more posts. I agree that the gay rights/LGBTQ agenda takes things too far. All I ask is to not use violence when the crime under question is nonviolence. So far as I know, polygamy IS against the law in most US states. Personally, I don't think we need a law against it because I don't think most people would go in that direction. My only concern are the widespread reports of abuse of polygamy wives in the US. That seems to be a troubling concern.
    1
  3106.  @bullymaguire8380  Trolling for attention, I see.
    1
  3107. Hard to tell thrugh all the dust how much it was falling apart though.
    1
  3108. Who said no one saw them?
    1
  3109.  @hannahjames3180  But did anyone have to see them to put the obvious pieces of the puzzle together? His voice, as we see above, was heard. It had a distinct accent. That alone shows someone else had enterted the cockpit.
    1
  3110.  @Iammram  Well if he made everything, by definition he created homosexual attraction. For what possible purpose?
    1
  3111.  @Iammram  And who created the environment? If we believe God exists, which has to be regarded as quite doubtful, everything that emanates from His creation is ultimately His doing. That includes good, evil, rape, war, murder, extreme suffering, and yes, homosexuality. God is alleged to be all powerful, so if that is true, He could have ensured all of these would not be a part of His creation. But allegedly He chose otherwise.
    1
  3112.  @Iammram  Doesn't add up. God can choose which undesirable side effects he wants and which ones he doesn't. So if he doesn't want violence, he could have hard-wired us not have violent thoughts.
    1
  3113.  @Iammram  Well God is perfect and it doesn't seem to bother him. So why not us?
    1
  3114.  @Iammram  "If everything was to be perfect and no issue, then that is the point?" What I mean is, if God created perfect creatures like himself, why would that pose any problem for either Him or us?
    1
  3115.  @Iammram  Why would we not have freedom to choose if we were perfect? God is perfect. Does He not have free will?
    1
  3116.  StopCensorship4--1  The constant groomer argument just causes people to roll their eyes. It's as if I said of you, "constant stupidity." At least in that case it would actually be correct.
    1
  3117. Genius for depravity, I'll give you that.
    1
  3118. Well, Turkish Airlines was also partly to blame. Just a few months before the crash, they made one final input (several, actually) that sealed its fate. As the authors of Destination Disaster put it, once this change was made, even "a sickly child" could have closed the door.
    1
  3119. But less so then the wild fantasies of the fringe truthers that congregate here.
    1
  3120. Well, these aren't normal people.
    1
  3121. Yes, you're right. In one 9-month period in 1973-4 they had 4 fatal crashes killing about 300 people, and also in that same period a cargo crash at Boston. This seems unprecedented, and 2 book have been written on the Pago Pago crash, Pan Am insisting on keeping its Pacific operation in full gear despite huge cutbacks in their safety infrastructure. There was even a "do not fly list" among Pan Am pilots, deemed too dangerous to fly with. I don't think these crashes had much effect on the airline as they happened in far away corners of the world. The airline's finances, the National airlines merger, and poor management caused the airline to lose routes bit by bit. The Pacific was sold off in 1986, and Europe was eventually pulled as well. There's little doubt though, that Lockerbie, hastened their inevitable demise.
    1
  3122. No to unrigorous minds who don't understand the nature of evidence. No to crackpot Youtubers and their war of stupidity against democracy. No to birtherism, no to Trump's empty promise to write a personal check to the family of a dead seviceman. No to people who are an utter disgrace to humanity. Yes to pro America and immigration control, just in case you think I cannot give credit where credit is due.
    1
  3123. Not worldwide. Acceptance of homosexuals is on the rise in the West, as more and more people realize gays are just as human as the rest of us.
    1
  3124. Never. For one reason, it's more than just that, though it is that too, to be sure.
    1
  3125. The key error of the CD brigade is the failure to realize that once the upper part started to lean and twist, there was no longer column-on-column contact. That means the entire upper section was being held up only by a single floor. Do you agree?
    1
  3126. That completely contradicts the data. Homosexuality may be much more fluid than commonly believed, but there is no evidence that most gays are capable of robust heterosexual attraction. The only way one can have that position is to assume that most gays who say they cannot change are liars. And the self-loathing gay also cannot be explained by such a simplistic theory. Further, no can know for sure what God thinks, as no one has ever seen direct evidence of God communicating with a human being. So that's just pure faith, not fact. One has also to ask, why on earth did God invent homosexual attraction if he is against it. Did he create it just for kicks? Or do you really think humans can create any urge out of whole cloth - can a human being choose to find sexual attraction in say, boulders or bricks, for example? Can we invent any attraction we want?
    1
  3127. ​ @alyxnoriega5625  When you see the word GOD, there's no need to read further: you know exactly what comes next.
    1
  3128. The only problem is, it makes no sense to crash an airplane in the middle of nowhere unless you are trying to thwart a passenger revolt.
    1
  3129.  @knickyak7268  Oh, and PS. A 757 is not a jumbo jet.
    1
  3130. What is with the music. You would think Tripster's guide to bar hopping and pub tours.
    1
  3131. But wouldn't your conviction there's no free will undercut the very claim there's no free will? That is, if you cannot freely think that free will doesn't exist, then doesn't that potentially invalidate that thought itself?
    1
  3132.  @raulepure9840  Well let me ask: take the belief that you cannot be 50 years old until you have been 30 years old. Are you forced to believe this? If so, then could you be forced not to believe it?
    1
  3133. Fair enough, though I don't think the NTSB tried to cover-up. After all they agreed to reopen the investigation, and modified the report. Can you imagine that happening in a country like Indonesia or Ethiopia? TWA 800: it was and remains an industry wide problem not particularly specific to the 747, I think. It's more likely that TWA's deferred maintenance of the wiring inside the wing made this particular plane more vulnerable.
    1
  3134. OK, how do we really know Labrie is dangerous? If as you point out, not all teen sex is rape, then how does this follow given the non guilty verdict of the main rape charge? And believe me I am no supporter of him in particular.
    1
  3135. No doubt this was corporate negligence. But jail to me requires they knew how unsafe the plane really was. Not convinced of that here.
    1
  3136.  @kueller917  Thank your for your reply. I'm just inserting my own value judgements here. For me personally, I like to give the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. Unlike GM, where there appears to have been a very thorough knowledge of the risks (compared to Ford pick up trucks) and therefore a very coldly calculated decision to accept X number of deaths, I think MD was more a case of corporate denial. And when that denial was shattered due to Windsor, despite the lack luster response, they did immediately see they were open for liability. In theory, the combination of the new lock pin setting and support plate made it 100% impossible to force the door shut. Can we blame MD for not anticipating two monkey wrenches though? The first is, did management know about the false paper work on the Turkish plane? And 2nd, the much less well known rogue maintenance: could they have foreseen Turkish Airlines would do the unthinkable and perform reckless maintenance, undoing safety features, extinguishing warning lights, and indeed making the plane even more dangerous than it was originally? This doesn't get MD off the hook. But I personally have come to see these circumstances as making the Paris crash more of a freak accident than is generally thought. OK, I'm rambling. Have a great day.
    1
  3137. The worst failure was not inspecting their work when completed.
    1
  3138. What are you talking about? She was driving dangerously.
    1
  3139. That sounds so unprofessional of those teachers. I wasn't there, and maybe these teachers couldn't help themselves. But I would have thought they would make an effort not to panic and scare young children!
    1
  3140. Not a fact. The twin towers took longer than free fall. The resistance was responsible for the extra few seconds. If you or the truth mvt wish to prove your claim, the way to do it is publish a paper in a science journal. Like normal scientists do. To date not a SINGLE article in a science journal. NONE. This contrasts to not only the gigantic science paper known as the NISt report, but also several peer reviews articles confirming its main co0nclusions. Youtube is not the place to prove anything. Send your comments to a science journal. It's that simple. Otherwise you have zero credibility,
    1
  3141. I was mostly won over until she stated human level intelligence is a real possibility. On what basis? Show us the code for human consciousness. It's just an unsupported speculation.
    1
  3142. Well I don't think he chose to use the airways clearance as a take off clearance. He almost certainly thought he had the proper take off clearance. No experienced pilot in their right mind would risk ruining their career by being reported for such a major violation.
    1
  3143. Katliego: Saying gay is not a choice is politically correct. But it's also true. Just ask yourself this simple question: did you choose your heterosexual attraction? Could you start to lust after people of your own sex? While some people can do this they are known as bisexuals. Most everyone else is stuck with their attraction. That's just basic reality, like it or not.
    1
  3144. Rich: most people don't choose their sexual orientation. Did you choose heterosexual attraction?
    1
  3145. They do speak for most Americans. The latest Pew surveys indicate the vast majority of Americans accept homosexuality. 72% at last count.
    1
  3146.  @Angelum_Band  Is it possible to have a little respect for a man who just underwent brain surgery? I suppose you're one of those people who believe everything they're told.
    1
  3147. Just did a word search on the transcript and "hero" did not show up. Did I miss it?
    1
  3148. But they weren't Japanese!!
    1
  3149. Let's face it, it takes mental illness not to recognize mental illness.
    1
  3150. Yes, I'm apt to think it's a bit like the contingency argument. Maybe we think we know more than we actually do. For example, maybe the cosmos has no beginning or end. And similarly, maybe we don't understand consciousness enough to know that it might well behave differently than non-conscious things.
    1
  3151. The theory of choice cannot explain the self-loathing gay.
    1
  3152. The irony though is that it's precisely the profit motive that drives safety, to the point we have never had safer skies than today (with some exceptions), even taking account of 737Max. Consider than for US jet airliners, for example, only a single person has died in the last 20 years. Back in 1974, anyone predicting something like this would be seen as crazier than the craziest of tobacco industry lobbyists.
    1
  3153.  @robhill4352  But isn't the reality somewhere in the middle? It was accidental in the sense that Travis may have pulled the trigger out of a reflexive reaction to a man suddenly charging at him, and also possibly grabbing his gun. BUT, the Ms are still guilty of reckless endangerment. They created a needlessly dangerous chase. So even if he shot in self-defense, it's a risk he himself created. To me that translates to 2nd degree murder, or manslaughter. Certainly not a double life sentence.
    1
  3154. I agree, it cannot be considered legal self-defense. But there was also a lack of proof of malice murder. The truth, I believe, lies somewhere in between.
    1
  3155. There's no conscience and wisdom in Uganda's most celebrated mass murderer, and narcissist par excellence. We insane demonic people understand Musevini all too well. A thug's a thug. Shows how utterly twisted your morals are.
    1
  3156.  @stopcensorship7705  8-25% Still no disproof = fraud.
    1
  3157. Off topic but, we know there are two distinct positions and uses of logic on each side o the abortion question. So let's not pretend there exists a moral consensus among reasonable people, or a hard proof. You can make a strong case, for example, that having a brain of some sort is a necessary condition for having rights. That cannot be objectively proven or disproven. But it's still a good argument.
    1
  3158. You messed up bro. The paper stuff that survived was found OUTSIDE the building well before the collapses. You gotta know them facts first.
    1
  3159. Yes - - lame and brainless.
    1
  3160. " 'The buildings were 'pulled', a term used to signify demolition." You have no credibility. It's been painstakingly explained by demo experts that "pull it" does not mean explosive demolition in demo jargon. Do you just like to make up stuff that sounds good?
    1
  3161. Would you go so far as to call a zygote a child?
    1
  3162. For a child, that would be correct. He shouts over everyone throughout, then complains about being interrupted. That's no small achievement given Alan's award winning talent for cutting others off.
    1
  3163. It was definitely unwise, though to be fair they were right to be concerned about falling debris; and what were the odds anyone realizing this was only the first of 3 strikes? Pretty close to zero I imagine.
    1
  3164. For you.
    1
  3165. But by then they had all been fixed.
    1
  3166. Don't forget the truth movement, among the more brazen liars of our time.
    1
  3167. And unconscious mistakes cannot be detected as they happen.
    1
  3168. Can one be gay and still be a decent person?
    1
  3169. To any sensible person, your comments translate to mental disorder.
    1
  3170. I don't believe Arbery deserved to die, or that he was in any way responsible for his death. BUT, there is a case to be made that manslaughter, or the equivalent in Georgia, is a more appropriate verdict; that malice murder ran roughshod over reasonable doubt; that the felony murder rule is an injustice; and that Roddie received a particularly outrageous verdict. Unlike the far right crazies and racist white trash who think the Ms did a service to their community, this is a sensible middle ground position. cheers
    1
  3171. But the third man's sentence was far from appropriate.
    1
  3172. Some people find black people disgusting too. Who cares what bigots think?
    1
  3173.  @NightmareSWGOH  I accept me. You can't even do logic.
    1
  3174.  @stopcensorship7705  Do not compare scientific knowledge with yourself.
    1
  3175.  @stopcensorship7705  Do you know what a polygenic trait is?
    1
  3176.  @stopcensorship7705  Wow, you are quite the scientist tonight. The problem is, you don't look at evidence the way a scientist does. The field of sociobiology, among others, consists of much suggestive evidence that behavior is heritable. The subject is hotly debated as you must know, if you are as informed as you claim you are. This is a classic case where we simply don't have access to enough data to prove this one way or the other. It's like the question of whether races differ in average IQ. As Stephen Jay Gould wrote at the end of his diatribe against Charles Murray, we must remain agnostic on that subject. The same is true here. It's hubris to say there's zero evidence; or to suggest the proof is in one way or the other. WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DATA TO PROCLAIM A PROOF. That's why you don't qualify as a scientist. You don't understand the difference between an unsettled state of evidence, versus a genuine proof.
    1
  3177.  @stopcensorship7705  "clearly you're not up to date with biology: the human genome has been fully mapped, there will never be any genetic proof for your depraved behavior" Your continued ignorance never ceases to amaze. If you keep on playing scientist with your shockingly poor intellect, you'll just get further and further humiliated. If you have any self respect, quit while you're ahead.
    1
  3178.  @Emotionalsavage281  OK, if you want to have a serious and courteous discussion, let's do it!
    1
  3179. I also have to wonder, they imply asking for both clearances where "ready for" = requesting" was common around the world. IF that's what the Dutch report meant, I would have preferred to see the actual evidence of that.
    1
  3180.  @aflairforthedramatics  I agree, but women help keep the system in place too. Look at the women who voted for Trump. They flock to Alpha males because they want the resources and the high status. They are not as bad, but are accomplices to the system.
    1
  3181. For the unenlightened, perhaps.
    1
  3182.  @vikuly8  Oh really, so in one fell stroke you exclude all women in your conception of gay. How sexist is that. And simultaneously equate gay with but s-x. Combining two fallacies at the same time gives one a good idea of your version of enlightened. Question Ms. Enlightened, what would you do if you had gay attraction?
    1
  3183.  @vikuly8  Not exactly replying to my points, but interesting.
    1
  3184. Yeah, let's pretend we have proof of a stolen election. You have not a scintilla of proof. It's human nature to believe even in the face of nothing.
    1
  3185.  @hotstepper1649  Hey, when you have the proof, let us know. Until then keep on acting like a lowlife juvenile. I expect nothing less from people who do not understand the nature of evidence.
    1
  3186.  @hotstepper1649  Still having trouble coughing up that proof?
    1
  3187. It was Turkish Airlines that did the tinkering, at most just a few months before the flight. By turning the lock pins the wrong way, and disabling the warning system, they became a partner in crime with MD. This is probably the main reason the airline agreed, along with MD, to settle out of court.
    1
  3188. Very bad behavior. But, $100,000 bond seems a bit much.
    1
  3189.  StopCensorship4  The post didn't claim there was a gay gene. Nice try.
    1
  3190. Well our government has committed enough murder as is. Why would we want to add to the body count?
    1
  3191.  StopCensorship4--1  But not even the US could match your level of unadulterated stupidity.
    1
  3192. Since when are all films movies?
    1
  3193. Because its bad policy.
    1
  3194. It was also said he sympathized with the terrorists and may even have slowed down the operation on purpose.
    1
  3195.  @stopcensorship7705  Hi Big Guy. 2 million incarcerated. We are a Big country Big Guy. Do those incarcerated include 54 peaceful opposition protestors, do they include opposition leaders? Do they include targeted civilians? Do we jail journalists for "offensive communication"? The big difference, Big Guy, is Musevini kills his own civilians by the thousand. The US does not. Since Obama, civilian deaths in other countries occur as a result of military targets. Big difference, Big Guy.
    1
  3196. The arrogance as cause is pure speculation. You are probably the victim of docudrama marketing.
    1
  3197. Nirotix, There is an excuse. It's called heuristics. It shows that, contrary to common sense, even very experienced people can be the victim of unconscious error, especially under pressure and a deadline. This is key to understanding such cases.
    1
  3198.  @Nirotix  Straw man. She wasn't trying to use deadly force. What does this have to do with he versus she? Did I claim it makes a difference?
    1
  3199. It goes wrong even when people do not try to make it fit their desires.
    1
  3200. In our zeal to find racism behind every action, the usual flaws of human nature have come out once again. If it were my son, at the very least I would have apologized to Potter for my sons actions. On the other hand, to be fair, Potter might well have been better served to also apologize. The fact is, he acted far worse than she did. In these morality plays, people are so routinely and predictable self-serving and one sided. This is the dark side of human nature. Will we ever outgrow it?
    1
  3201.  @tetertertertert  Didn't follow the Nassar case in detail. How confident can we be the dad was negligent toward his daughters?
    1
  3202. ​ @stopcensorship7705  Deal with it.
    1
  3203.  sukadik2441  It makes little difference however. Even if the McMichaels were attempting a legal citizen's arrest (which they weren't), they still would have been conducting it recklessly. The key mistake was to point a loaded shot gun at Arbery when he was still several seconds from the vehicle. Had Arbery been armed, he would have had the right to shoot Travis dead. This is why the reckless endangerment charge is absolutely valid.
    1
  3204.  @timmy5387  "How did they marginalise themselves? BTW Your grammar is crap." So is everything about him. He just can't stop babbling away like an idiot.
    1
  3205.  @stopcensorship7705  You have yet to refute the prenatal theory, the older brother effect, or the statements from people involved in the GWAS who routinely say behavior is likely influenced by genes. Why are you having such a hard time coughing up a scientific disproof?
    1
  3206. So you celebrate mass murderers. How touching. Do you support dirt eating as well? An African delicacy I hear.
    1
  3207. I wish it had been justice.
    1
  3208. Trump has been comedy from day one. Like children, he thrives on lies. And also on violence. He has aligned himself with violent groups, which makes him effectively the leader of domestic terrorism, and of the thugs that ransacked the Capital building. If you want a brand of fascism that makes Biden look like a bastion of freedom, join the thugs who are planning civil war, and we will see the end of democracy in the US. Is that what you want? Because it's already underway. If you support Trump, you support thugs.
    1
  3209. As for the law and the jury, weakness at the concepts of reasonable doubt and due process.
    1
  3210. It's not the real truth, it's just his opinion, no better than your or mine.
    1
  3211.  @winstonandmargaret7688  What makes you more qualified to know the truth? An irresistible conviction that you are superior to others just by virtue of being you? No disrespect intended.
    1
  3212.  @winstonandmargaret7688  Oh great, I get the final word. The Bible was created by ancient men. That's why it celebrates rape and slavery, or executing a cursing child. If you think a real God would do that, you have a lot of explaining to do. The bible reflects ancient mans' beliefs, at a lesser stage of moral development. That's why it loves violence so much. You know, the flood. Why did he create mankind, knowing full well He would kill us all off? These questions cannot be answered by adherence to faith. Finally, why did God create homosexual attraction if he's against homosexuality? Again, no amount of contorting explains this bizarre paradox. Cheers to Museveni. Uganda's greatest butcher . And most celebrated thug. Tell me, are his torture chambers, and the 54 people shot down in the last election and his sham elections: Is that in line with biblical teachings too? Have a good night Big Guy.
    1
  3213.  @winstonandmargaret7688  Thought you were ending this discussion 5 hours ago. Can't even keep your word, can you. Go for it Big Guy. Any argument about God and bible you would loose big time. Just as surely as the alleged Perfect Being decided that suddenly in 4004 BC he would decide to unleash the murderously Imperfect species, mankind, onto the scene: knowing full well the evil that would result. So much for God's omnipotence or moral concerns. Biblical scholarship will not solve that problem. Neither can you, Mr. Superior.
    1
  3214.  @stopcensorship7705  So you like the part about executing a cursing child? Sounds perfectly Godly to me.
    1
  3215.  @stopcensorship7705  As with virtually all true believers, they believe it because that's what they were taught as youngsters in their own culture. That's why Muslims choose the Quran and you choose the bible. You were taught it, but never questioned it. Or do you want me to believe that you undertook a rigorous review on all 700+ world religions before accepting any of them, and just happened to come up with Christianity? Go for it.
    1
  3216.  @stopcensorship7705  "and the Quran has executed your haram feelings." God once executed the entire world (minus eight people.) See the Book of Genocide. So much for His Perfection. A colossal blunder by any standard.
    1
  3217.  @stopcensorship7705  "The Bible certainly executed your cursed feelings." The meaning is clear, but expressed somewhat awkwardly. Consider a rewrite.
    1
  3218. This forum is not for the mentally ill.
    1
  3219. Difficult situation as he was a hunter. I believe by coincidence they mentioned in another article he liked to catch real cat fish. This is effectively murder. I hope the penalty can be harsh.
    1
  3220.  @Nicolas-sz6qh  The most disgusting thing of all is his record of torture and mass murder.
    1
  3221. And that from one of the most brutal, twisted, narcissistic dictators in the world. His total disrespect for human life makes his views null and void.
    1
  3222. ​ @مصعب-خ8ه Value judgements cannot be objectively proved. Therefore it's not a fact. Did they not teach you the difference between a fact and a belief?
    1
  3223.  @sampathn4429  News to me I'm getting touchy. Sounds like you are, though.
    1
  3224. You have allowed yourself to be brainwashed by the truth movement.
    1
  3225. Tell your truther brethren to see the article "Unsafe at any Air Speed?" Confirmed cell calls connected at all phases of flight. This represents the difference between 1st rate vs 2nd rate research. Or as likely, shielding the truth from truthers. cheers
    1
  3226. Something's not adding up here. Crowder's the kind of guy who would always claim victory even if he lost. So it makes no sense he would be afraid of Seder. What makes Seder any harder to debate than any other of Crowder's liberal guests? Is Sam a certified genius or something? Fill me in, somebody.
    1
  3227.  @myurgil  I agree, it's not always obvious where to draw the line. But I was thinking here, since they did get his license, and it wasn't an immediate and urgent threat, it might have been better to hold off. However,I concede I was a bit on my high horse two days ago!
    1
  3228. If you really thought for yourself you would know that 9/11 truth has all the traditional markings of a scholarly joke: a complete absence of peer review, a poor sense of judgement, and refutations of all the major theories has been provided. But I assume you only read CT sites and not the debunker material.
    1
  3229. I hope this helps dispel the notion among some extremists that white people never care about black people.
    1
  3230. That gays could wipe out the human race? I don't know what informs Ugandan citizens to uncritically accept such nonsense.
    1
  3231. OK, so how is this any different than vigorous debates about the economy, presidential elections, feminism, abortion, BLM, AI or gun control? By your logic, if anyone challenges what you believe, he is by default, a government shill. Did I get that right?
    1
  3232. It's sinful, I agree. But the US generally does not TRY to target innocent civilians. Thus you cannot compare Guantanamo with 9/11.
    1
  3233. Well let me ask you a question, and I'm not sure of the answer. But is telling potential gay posters they will burn in hell when there's not a shred of proof that they will -- is that showing respect?
    1
  3234.  @godislove363  If don't see how God loves us so much, as He, being allegedly omnipotent, could have created a world without evil. He choose not to. He knew in advance, for example, that he was creating imperfect beings, who would then go on to create the holocaust, and other ghastly things, yet chose to create us anyway. Had He wished, He could have fine tuned human beings to have a built in mechanism linking harm to others with the same degree of pain when we are hurt. He chose not to arm us in such a manner. He chose not to provide us with the level of empathy that would prevent atrocities. Alternatively, he could have used his omniscience to foresee which human beings would misuse their free will, and eliminate them from the creation. It's therefore obvious that the biblical God is man's invention. Man loves suffering. So no wonder God does too. And He kills us all off, designing us with a hundred different mechanism that ensure our certain death, making him the biggest mass murderer in history. The real question therefore is, how come so many people cannot see through to the obvious: that suffering of the scale imagined by religious believers is out of proportion to the sin committed. It's a simple truth staring one in the face. Would you kill your child if he cursed at you? Of course not. If a real God existed, He has better things to think about than who sleeps with whom. Those pettinesses arise out of human vice, not virtue. Any undergraduate psychology major understands that.
    1
  3235.  @godislove363  Thank you for your reply. That's all fine and good, but I never said anything about robots. I gave two exmples of how God could have made the world more perfect.  -He could have made a decision to eliminate evil depraved people from his creation. Thus, everyone who is born still has free will. -A simple feedback mechanism that makes us not have any desire to commit atrocities against humanity. This doesn't make us robots, any more than all the other constraints our creator (nature or otherwise) has endowed us with: we can't flap our wings and fly like a bird. Does that mean we're robots? He gave us the ability to have empathy, which acts to limit depravity to a degree. Did that turn us into robots? We can't escape feelings of grief. Perhaps that makes us robots? None of that makes any sense: the idea that because we don't have complete and total unconstrained choice, that we are robots. This is again why the traditional answers given by true believers don't turn the needle. The logic is always flawed.
    1
  3236.  @godislove363  I appreciate your reply. For me, there's a genuine paradox of an alleged perfect being so intent on bringing imperfection into the world, which then results in massive suffering. I think God it ultimately an attempt to make the world more palatable, to explain its hideous ways, by suggesting we are the ones who have complete control over it, and thus we who screwed up. That just doesn't work for me, for a few reasons. 1) lack of any independent evidence of a biblical God;   2) that ordinary everyday misbehavior ought to be punished with excessive cruelty. This goes against all of the more humane standards we have devised to treat other humans decently. For example, what loving Being, in any context, would say, he who curses their parent should be put to death? Yet that's exactly what God allegedly said in Leviticus. It's a grotesque lack of proportionality to the crime committed. Should we start administering the death penalty for cursing? 3) We can only choose based on our hardwiring. And there can be little question that we are hardwired for violence. Serial killers for example, seem to be hardwired differently than you and I. In observational studies, they don't flinch the way you and I do when observing another human being in pain. That's God's alleged constraint lacking in serial killers. Does that mkae them robots? Does it make the world a better place? It's a total myth, unsupported by an evidence, that humans have complete unconstrained free will. We can only choose what our hardwiring allows. That's probably why gays choose gay behavior. If God disapproves, why did he put gay attraction into his lexicon of human attractions? For what purpose? This is the problem with the free will versus robot analogy. Humans don't choose in a vacuum. If God had not invented the concept of violence, there would be no violence !! Don't you see that basic truth staring one in the face? But depriving us of violent urges would not renders us robots. We can freely choose all the other decisions we make; our careers, our spouses, our friends, our vacation hangouts, or mull over whether we want to become vegetarians. As I said, God gave us the power of empathy. That constrains out choices, making it virtually impossible for most of us to choose depraved behavior under normal conditions. Are we robots because of that? 4) The existence of massive unspeakable suffering. I contend that such suffering isn't worth the price of admission into the world. No human being deserves this, no matter how depraved. The world is not made a better place by it. But even its some extremely depraved humans deserve such suffering, certainly not the lot of ordinary people who have not killed or tortured others. Only a depraved Being would be intent on washing them away in floods, and indeed ultimately killing all of them off. 5) Which leads back to the question, if God is perfect, why was further perfection needed in the first place? And how does one get more perfection out of massive suffering???????? As long as no definitive answers exist to these questions, God should be totally understanding and forgiving for people like me. Why should He be so angry? Wouldn't a truly enlightened Being not get so worked up about what one little earthling thinks?   Thank you for a nice discussion.
    1
  3237.  @godislove363  "hi there you typed mouthful" Yes I certainly did. Please take your time, I'll wait until you've covered everything you want before if I have any more replies. You have been more than polite and cordial. Thank you.
    1
  3238.  @godislove363  "threw Freewill did choose to sin and When sin began the same line says you sure she'll surely not die when they thought there was .." Well that's where I part company with the biblical God. One doesn't deserve to die for an ordinary sin, do they?
    1
  3239.  @godislove363  I'm trying to digest the things you've written, but I'm not sure I have been successful. Maybe you could spell out for me in very clear terms, because maybe I've got this wrong since I'm not a student of the bible. But what was the worst sin committed by Adam and Eve. Did they commit murder for example?
    1
  3240.  @godislove363  Thank you for being such a good sport. I'll just reiterate, I still see no reason why sins that do not cause permanent injury or death to others should be punished by death. Why would a loving and beneficent Being inflict such a gratuitously cruel punishment? What is the purpose? How does it make the world better?
    1
  3241.  @godislove363  I do thank you again for your reply.  And I agree, I'm not so much trying to debate you either for debate's sake. But in the process of trying to understand, and seeing if I could really become a potential believer, I would have to air my concerns. I think God, if He's up there, would understand that. ? Let me go back to Leviticus for a moment: if you curse your parent you should certainly be put to death. I understand that it was based on a certain context. But what I can't seem to figure out is, why would ANY context justify that? Where would it ever be OK to recommend death for cursing a parent? Maybe you could help me try to wrap my head around that. Thanks
    1
  3242. Youtube = 95% ignorance, witness Stop Censorship .
    1
  3243. I concur with the author who wrote, years ago, that this is just a continuation of a chronic misuse of the island. It's a unique natural resource and would be more logical if it became the centerpiece of the Boston Harbor Islands State Park. If it were so today, would anyone advocate taking it down? I cannot believe that this is the only viable place to build a homeless shelter. More controversially, could both coexist given how large the island is?
    1
  3244. "free speech laws never intended as. . . accountability shields." So now he's a constitutional lawyer.
    1
  3245.  @johnbaker6125  "it drives people..." Hadn't considered that but sounds plausible.
    1
  3246. You're giving your country a bad name.
    1
  3247. Those are some of the least intelligent words on this subject. BUT, this is Youtube after all. Where brain power is optional.
    1
  3248. Not according to what might increasingly be called the alt-left. In their vision, due process = white male privilege, end of discussion. This illiberal dogma is the very opposite of what civility and peace is all about. Part of it is the more extreme form of feminism, which cannot see the humanity in men, especially the falsely accused who suffer from PTSD depression and suicidal thoughts due to the depraved way college kangaroo courts treat them.
    1
  3249. Problem: they did not witness him stealing anything. They thus pursued him illegally, according to what I've read about Georgia law. Who assaulted whom first we may never know.
    1
  3250.  @rokon1991  https://youtu.be/lQFEyEabnvU
    1
  3251.  @rokon1991  I did more searches and it seems you are right. Not as many as there used to be. There are two possible reasons for this. -the government sensors Youtube to protect government complicity. -a basic crackdown on "conspiracy theories" in general, not because they are true, but because they are seen as primarily a form of disinformation. As you probably have seen, recently there's been a huge drive for so-called media accountability. Facebook, Twitter, also have sought to crack down on what they feel are unfounded claims, especially those which might in their eyes inspire violence. I am not a believer in 9/11 conspiracy theories. I find them rotten at their core, and fail at almost every level of analysis. But I still want the complete freedom for them to post there ideas. There should be zero censorship of an event that happened so long ago. It makes me as angry as you.
    1
  3252. Why not just say "many men."
    1
  3253.  @evaboldt653  I'm with you in principle. But one reason why so many women refuse to go along with it is the perception that feminism has a distinctly anti-man flavor to it. I don't think most feminists are like that, but the more "radical side" has been more and more finding its way into the mainstream. And then we have the absurd side of it, such as "man spreading," as if that behavior is directed only towards women.
    1
  3254. I'm not so sure about that. In my experience, women don't want men for sex so much, as for resources.
    1
  3255. So does he. He committed treason.
    1
  3256.  @Tylnorton  That's an example of short-sighted thinking. The parents were no letting their children roam around. The mom lost track of her son for a brief few seconds. You don't think the zoo was irresponsible for allowing a 3-year-old to gain access to a gorilla exhibit? We've all but lost common sense in our society. And these kinds of comments are about as clear as an example as you can find.
    1
  3257. For sociopaths like you, and mass murderers like him. That has never been truer.
    1
  3258. She was perhaps inappropriately trying to stick it to him. But you might also think that a country mired in debt and poverty should not be wasting their resources persecuting gays.
    1
  3259. “I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT!” -Donald Trump. Tell us, where did Taylor use the word "hate" when she announced her plans to vote for the dems? Go for it
    1
  3260. I did do my own research. Virtually all the debris fell within 1,000 ft of the impact crater. About 1.3 miles distant a very few small fragments of seat, bone, and tiny pieces of metal were found. 8 miles distant, only paper and some insulation was found. The latter was carried there by air currents. The former could have easily been blasted there due to the kenetic forces. So the shoot down theory has to explain where virtually the entire plane went, as all but about .001 % of it was ever found outside the primary debris field.
    1
  3261. Yes, all too true. But the paradox is that nowadays, given the sheer volume of flights, the profit motive is what actually drives safety. If too many planes crash, people won't fly. This is perhaps the main reason why today, flying has never been safer.
    1
  3262.  @Ash-ps3dm  "women with naturally high testosterone were kept from competing, " Where did this happen?
    1
  3263. For once, an honest appraisal: we have no clue what consciousness is. So let's stop pretending AI consciousness is right around the corner.
    1
  3264. The real culprit in all this is that women who made up the charges, Lisa Jackson. The entire deposition is available for download and it reveals a women caught lying. Bubba and another witness who believed Ms. Jackson went and confronted one of the alleged targets of Bubba's abuse. He indicated that Jackson's version of the story was wrong. This episode reminds me a bit of the Michael Phelps bong episode. Our major outrage should be towards those ruin others' careers in a spirit of meanness.
    1
  3265. So why didn't she speak out sooner? Why didn't Dominique claim innocence?
    1
  3266. @ZelenskyTheMadClown I would say "not possible" is putting it too strong. It does seem bizarre to be sure. But, if you are on meds regularly already, you may not know the difference. And this was 70 some men spread out over many years. It's not as if they came every night or even every week. So, would yo like to speculate as to her motive?
    1
  3267. Not sure why this video is attracting the dregs of humanity in such huge %s. Are these mainly Kenyans posting? If so, I'm glad I don't live there. What a basket case of hatred and intolerance it must be, even by Youtube standards.
    1
  3268.  @meln.5357  Well I'm glad to hear that. But you have to admit this is one of the most hate filled series of threads in Youtube. At least in my experience.
    1
  3269. He must have been sent to the principal's office countless times.
    1
  3270.  @weirdloverwilde  That's understandable but certainly debatable.
    1
  3271. It's utterly preposterous though.
    1
  3272.  @PrayersForYou888  What about fetuses? I don't hear them complaining.
    1
  3273.  @ajevangelista8758  But its moral status is up for discussion.
    1
  3274. "It would be another story if we saw an ACTUAL AIRPLANE." There was "no plane" in the wreckage of PSA flight 1771. Was it a fake too?
    1
  3275.  @dominiquetatum7034  Well if I am one, it's because people like you drain me with your hateful thoughts. Too bad you can't express yourself more civilly.
    1
  3276. So you bless Uganda's most prominent butcher, complete with torture chambers, body bags, sham elections, and 54 peaceful protesters slaughtered at election time. Go for it. God must be thinking, "another one of my delusional creations. Where did I go wrong?"
    1
  3277. By trying to overthrow the government, by releasing hardened criminals en masse? Do tell us about it.
    1
  3278. I would say not quite. Putting lives at risk in a high speed chase at night when you already have the man's license is hardly respectful if you were to be hit and killed as a result. However, I blame policy more than individuals here.
    1
  3279. Simple. Because many of these people do not think they are hurting anyone. Think about it. If the victim INVITES you in, why would you think you are hurting them? This in no way justifies it. But it illustrates that much of society has a blind spot in the assumptions they make. Unlike murder or forcible rape, this can be one of those crimes where the long term damage isn't obvious.
    1
  3280. Not as stupid as you.
    1
  3281. Oh yes it did. To say otherwise is to endorse the nonsensical theory that a government wishing to further an agenda would decide that the best way to do so is to "crash" a 757 into an empty field in the middle of nowhere. That's only marginally less rational than targeting a rabbit habitat, grazing cows or penguins in the South Pole.
    1
  3282.  @j.savage1228  Yes it did. There's mounds of evidence. By denying this, by default you must be committed to the nonsense theory that a government wishing to have a "war on T---" would find it necessary to crash a plane into the middle of nowhere for no apparent reason.
    1
  3283. Well the above is all quite speculative. Bush continuing to read "My Pet Goat" could well be interpreted as simply an incompetent president, which he surely was, paralyzed by the indecision one expects from a poor leader. In addition, no script writer in her or his right mind is going to come up with that pathetic screenplay. They would would want to make the president look on top of things. especially given the stinging criticism the government failed to stop a single attack. "Then the Missile that at the pentagon, it was proven that only a missile could make a huge hole that did not extend to the sides like an airplane would have made with its wings." Not proven to even most "truthers." Discussion welcome. "This shows that Govt, had to plant these explossives." Then by definition, this was not "let it happen" but active perpetration. "And people would have seen a big airplane coming in way before it hit the pentagon." So, the magical government somehow managed to convince most witnesses they saw a 757 (as most of them claimed) instead of a missile. And decided it would be perfectly sensible to fire a missile over rush hour traffic for all to see. No offense intended, but this is some of the worst speculation I've come across, even for Youtube, and has the distinct ring of someone who does not critically question the alleged proofs offered by truth sites: a movement which by and large is a collection of lies and misinformation that puts even the government to shame.
    1
  3284. Stop talking and start taking action. Only you can change your behavior.
    1
  3285. Yes, but it also might be the case that a terrorism bomb could save lives: for example, a bomb going off and disrupting an airport where there would have otherwise (for whatever reason) been a major crash. But because there wouldn't be any physical record of a crash that didn't happen, we would never know.
    1
  3286.  @Jsmbpj  I was talking in theoretical terms. For example, had the terrorists planted the bomb at Tenerife, there would have been no collision. That proves my point.
    1
  3287. But, Operation Northwoods never happened. Neither did Operation 911.
    1
  3288. Maybe so, but pure speculation.
    1
  3289. It used to be a treat. No long lines, more legroom. But on the positive side it is now so much safer than 1977 the comparison is almost absurd. For all intents and purposes we live in the post crash age among the top tier of airlines.
    1
  3290. The idea that one movie with one actor and one prosthetic nose might contribute significantly to stereotypes seems so off base when you consider the most serous problems facing the world. Let's just enjoy the movie for goodness sakes.
    1
  3291. I know what you mean, truther spam is the curse of Youtube.
    1
  3292. Shameful.
    1
  3293. This is why there was a petition to prosecute the mother. To some Green extremists, the gorilla is more important than the child.
    1
  3294.  @ijumpjudyy  Or Tin Pot dictators who can't stop killing people.
    1
  3295.  @MauroPanigada  You're right, every little bit could make the difference. He was in charge of closing the door, but not looking through the peep hole. That was the responsibility of Turkish Airlines personnel. When the main mechanic was not there (he was on vacation) one of the cockpit crew was supposed to come down and check. No once came down that day. Another very big part o the story, only mentioned in part in this presentation, and rarely told, is that just weeks before the crash, Turkish Airlines tampered with the safety mechanisms on the cargo door. They basically made sure it would crash, for all intents and purposes. Once those changes had been made, the fate of the aircraft was sealed.
    1
  3296. Who cares?
    1
  3297. We already have that. Ethiopian airlines flight 302 was more or less identical. Before the wreckage was dug out, the main body of the plane disappeared beneath the soil.
    1
  3298. Yeah, they almost rival the truth mvt.
    1
  3299. Absolutely. This is precisely the kind of crime that demands life in prison.
    1
  3300. To those with unrigorous minds, perhaps.
    1
  3301. Also keep in mind the god-complex theory is far from confirmed. The actual tapes, to my knowledge, contain only one or two stray remarks that might suggest this. The rest appear to be caricature helped along by the Mayday series. I am absolutely certain he never said "drag them [passengers] back" to the FA.
    1
  3302. Which proves nothing.
    1
  3303.  @joefriendly  I agree we cannot rule out access to the building interior for rigging. But for everything else you mention, you can find just as many experts who disagree.
    1
  3304. Problem with that is, there's no proof.
    1
  3305. It was also poor design that allowed flight 191 to happen. People always seem to forget this.
    1
  3306. But if you notice, you're wrong. These engineers in the Gage group are for the most part not STRUCTURAL engineers, and none of them seems interested in publishing their science in a science or engineering journal. They've had 21 years to do so. That speaks far more intelligently than random nonstructural engineers putting their names on a list.
    1
  3307. What is your reasoning here?
    1
  3308.  @joebob2311productions  Speculation: I suppose it might make it more difficult, but eventually the pressure in the passenger cabin will equalize very quickly, even without the vents. At least I am guessing it would.
    1
  3309. or raking leaves on Saurdays.
    1
  3310.  @bubblezandtea  God did not create Adam, Eve, or even Steve. Certainly there's no rational evidence for this.
    1
  3311.  @bubblezandtea  The Bible was written by ancient humans, which explains its obsession with violence.
    1
  3312.  @bubblezandtea  Yes, but the Old Testament is no less a part of the Bible, and no less an alleged authentic part of God's word.
    1
  3313. Better disgusting than murderous. There is no wisdom in a vicious killer, in fact the most brutal mass murderer in the country's history. Can't you pick a more enlightened ally?
    1
  3314. Yeah, like the fact that having gay attraction is not chosen. Does that offend you?
    1
  3315.  @titteryenot4524  Oh there's no doubt. Look at the hate gene He created. No God in it's right mind would wish to create creatures whose sole purpose in life is to waste away on Youtube, spilling hate.
    1
  3316. It's human nature to play judge, jury and executioner. It's social vigilantism, just as ugly as the physical version.
    1
  3317. The Bible was written by ancient men, so I can't take it up with Him.
    1
  3318.  @WildberryAB  You are delusional.
    1
  3319.  @WildberryAB  Did you ever personally ask God about homosexuality? If you did, I hope you asked Him why he created homosexual attraction if the first place.
    1
  3320.  @WildberryAB  "He didn't. " Please help me with this. I thought the entire world was God's creation. So He created everything EXCEPT homosexuality? "If God Himself declares homosexuality a sin, why would He create a single being with that attraction?" Tell me how Ephesians 6:12 answers this question. It's not self evidence. The point is this, God could have simply banished homosexual attraction from the universe. He's all powerful. Or is He not?
    1
  3321.  @WildberryAB  I would consider God's alleged word if someone can explain why He found it necessary to ensure that unspeakable tragedy and suffering would be an integral part of his creation. How does that make the world a better place? Why would an alleged perfect being wish such suffering on those he is said to love?
    1
  3322.  @WildberryAB  In a word, you are saying humans deserve to suffer.
    1
  3323.  @WildberryAB  Let me ask you this. God allegedly brought a flood intended to kill off all of humanity (except for 8 people.) Are you trying to argue all these people deserved to die? Deserved to drown? What crime did they all commit that justifies this suffering and mass slaughter? Is that in essence your justification for suffering? We all deserve it? In my book, and in most decent people's book, this is called a crime against humanity.
    1
  3324.  @WildberryAB  Since God knew humanity would deserve death back then, why did He bother creating them in the first place? Why not prevent all that suffering by leaving them out of His alleged creation to begin with? None of this makes an iota of sense.
    1
  3325. Why is that? Today flying is safer than driving over similar distances, at least in the West.
    1
  3326. It's an indictment of the French legal system. On the other hand, EU countries often espouse a "humane" approach to punishment. Remember that serial killer in, was it Norway? They could only give him 30 years.
    1
  3327. Well but God never forgave us. How does excessive and cruelly disproportional suffering make the world a better place? The answer is: it doesn't.
    1
  3328.  @marcoliverdavidruprecht715  Well to me personally, I think it's pretty obvious there isn't a God, at least of the biblical variety. God is said to be loving and beneficent, all-powerful, and all knowing. Yet that fails every way you look at it. Here's a question for you. God knew everything that would happen in the future. So, he could have used this omniscience to foresee which people would misuse their free will, and simply eliminate them from his creation. Then there would be no need to have a world with massive suffering. A lot of this boils down to whether one thinks we humans deserve SO much suffering. The idea it's our fault is just blaming the victim. It's clear that ancient men wrote the bible and lied about it being God's word. To me at least.
    1
  3329.  @marcoliverdavidruprecht715  "Do you realize you just suggested God could kill or brainwash all of us, including you, to stop evil from happening?' That's not what I stated or even implied. To repeat this hypothetical: Let us say God could foresee which people would misuse their free will, and thus decided it would be best to eliminate them from his creation. The result would be: -Everyone still has 100% free will -No one misuses their free will Are we on the same page so far? In this scenario we also have: -no one is brainwashed -no one is killed -there is no need for massive suffering -the world all around is a better place for everyone. As far as "God could kill," in the REAL world He allegedly created, he DID JUST THAT. He killed almost the entire species in a flood. Are you suggesting that was a more desirable outcome than the peaceful non-murderous choice he could have made instead?
    1
  3330.  @marcoliverdavidruprecht715  Well first off, thank you for your replies, and being a good sport. I am just doing this to try to express why I have a problem with the notion of a biblical God. I am open to being convinced. "First, there is a logical contradiction in your argument: you offer a solution for people abusing their free will in that God could “eliminate them from his creation”, but then you state that “no one is killed” in this process" When I say "eliminate," I mean in the sense, to make sure they will not be born to begin with. Thus no murder is required. "if God were to follow your suggestion to only eliminate everyone who will abuse their free will, the outcome would be total annihilation of all humans, since no one is using their free will 100% perfectly." Ah, but then God is not omniscient or omnipotent. If He is incapable of designing moral beings who are as perfect as himself, he is far from the perfect Being alleged. Furthermore, why is total annihalation anything knew? God already did it through his great Flood. A crime against humanity if there ever was, no?
    1
  3331.  @marcoliverdavidruprecht715  But for me, the most (apparently) offensive thing about a Biblical God and Christianity is the core belief we deserve our suffering. So, bringing it back to the topic at hand, do you believe the victims of this horrible tragedy deserve their suffering?
    1
  3332.  @marcoliverdavidruprecht715  Thank you for your continued replies. What would help me a lot is if you would kindly answer my last question: do you believe the family members who are left to suffer after this horrible car crash deserve their suffering? Why should anyone create a world where this kind of suffering (and much worse) is seen as deserved? This is my fundamental question. Thank you.
    1
  3333.  @marcoliverdavidruprecht715  Well thanks again for your reply. "Did they deserve it? I don’t know. " If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that as far as you know, there exists a possibility they did not deserve it. Is that what you mean?
    1
  3334.  @marcoliverdavidruprecht715  To answer your questions: "if God exists, why do you think you know better than Him?" I don't think that at all. By saying I disgree with God on some issue, is a rhetorical way of saying, I don't believe there is a God. Or "God doesn't make sense because of X." It's a way to get my point across. So, if I call God a mass murderer because of the Flood, that's just another way of expressing the fact i don't believe in God, at least the Christian one under discussion. Because a real God, as I see it, would not create mankind, knowing full well (due to his knowledge of everything that will happen in the future), He will slaughter them later in a great Flood. It just seems like a pointless exercise in cruelty. If you know you are going to kill infants and toddlers, why create them in the first place? That makes no sense to me. And part of my acceptance of God would be being convinced we are in fact talking about something real. Why would you expect nonbelievers to be convinced of God's existence with example like that? Or the recommendation people who work on the Sabbath should be executed? In the 21st century, many of us believe a wise and beneficent being would not be obsessed with notions of suffering, and execution. Surely you can understand why that leads a great many decent folks to question the veracity of the alleged Christian God, even if they are wrong in the final analysis. "And if He doesn’t, why would there be such a thing as objective right and wrong to begin with?" To be honest, I have never grasped the alleged significance of this common statement. Firstly, I don't really agree, or have not found it convincing, to believe there exists a truly bonafide objective right and wrong. My own working theory, which is by no means original, is that we are hardwired by nature to have the morality we do. While moralities differ significantly by culture, there seems nevertheless to be some pretty much across the board constants, which have been tested in many cross cultural questionnaires, for example. Why might evolution have found it advantageous to give us a strong sense of right and wrong? Here's one explanation in a nutshell: cooperation and sincere interest in others is likely to enhance our survival prospects, thus being of mutual benefit.
    1
  3335.  @marcoliverdavidruprecht715  Thank you for those references, I may well have a look. And thank you for a lively discussion, and for a sense of tolerance for people like me.
    1
  3336.  @marcoliverdavidruprecht715  :)
    1
  3337. I think one committed suicide.
    1
  3338. Or the fact this was unintentional and debatable as manslaughter. Human beings never were and never will be perfect. What will you say when it's your turn to screw up?
    1
  3339.  @anthonykahukiwa7993  You've never heard of, say, a drunk driver victim? ????????????? It happens every day of the week. I don't know how you can read the news and not be familiar with negligent death. It's all around us.
    1
  3340.  @anthonykahukiwa7993  Good point. That said, my argument is that even the most basic errors can overtake anyone at anytime. Research has shown that if the stress factor is great enough, it has a tendency to narrow one's focus, without even being aware of it. I follow commercial aviation accidents, for example. Experienced pilots can and have made basic mistakes that have killed people. Look up the Tenerife disaster, for example. Hunting accidents are another candidate for these types of errors. It turns out it is mainly the most experienced hunters who are 100% sure they have correctly identified their target that are most likely to be the ones who accidentally kill their fellow hunters, or innocent bystanders. So my personal take is, let's extend the benefit of doubt to our fellow humans. Can you guarantee you might not screw up when it's your turn to be overtaken by a stressful situation?
    1
  3341.  @anthonykahukiwa7993  Look how similar they are: https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-j7nzh/product_images/uploaded_images/handgun-vs-taser-gun-best-for-self-defense.jpg -Also, under stress you may not even look but instinctively grab your left pocket, instead of your right pocket. -Two Lufthansa pilots once took off from London Heathrow because they were 100% sure they had received take off clearance, when in fact they had received an altered departure clearance instead. Please also google this from an article on hunting accidents: "Heuristics operate outside of our conscious awareness and are utilised even more in stressful or emotionally- charged situations. However, they can also make us susceptible to cognitive biases which may lead us astray—we underestimate the impact heuristics will have on our decisions. Attempts to manage heuristics and cognitive biases are often futile because we normally cannot detect them when they occur." This passage is key to understanding how seemingly impossible errors can occur.
    1
  3342.  @anthonykahukiwa7993  As to the Floyd case, I haven't followed it enough to say whether he deserves the entire 60 years he could face. But I don't see any way out of a guilty verdict he received. The expert police and medical testimony was very powerful in this case. Beyond reasonable doubt. Over a period of 9 minutes you would be hard pressed to argue stress!!
    1
  3343.  @gabrielle-d1b  Actually it's sun spots.
    1
  3344.  @Adargi  I don't recall removing anything. It's probably Youtube's bizarre and stupid way to run a thread. Do you remember what my post said said? Are you talking about this one? "He is a hypocrite. He wants respect only for his country's values, but denies the same courtesy to gays in his country. That's a major violation of the Golden Rule. If a country practices mass slaughter of, say, black people, would you also say we should respect that country's values?"
    1
  3345.  Pitts DaThird  Whatever its etymology, your definition is incomplete as the term is also defined as aversion to or dislike of, or prejudice against gays. Especially irrational prejudice.
    1
  3346.  Pitts DaThird  "That’s not the case with people who are against homosexuality." That's not an intelligent comment, as it is clear many people who are against homosexuality also have irrational and hateful views towards it. One obvious example are the Christina ministries devoted to gay conversion therapy, holding the irrational belief that gays can genuinely change through prayer, touch therapy and retrieval of alleged fetal memories. The spectacular failure of conversion therapy and the extreme harm it has caused is more than enough to demonstrate its extreme irrationality.
    1
  3347.  Pitts DaThird  OK, so I'm a gay man. Tell me what form of rehabilitation has been shown to successfully cure me of my gayness. Can you cite a source that would pass scientific muster? If not, then quoting from the bible is not going to help unless the bible contains the instruction manual for this alleged rehabilitation. There is no demonstrable evidence that most people can change their orientation. This is what I mean by being gay.
    1
  3348. $$
    1
  3349. The problem is, not much evidence.
    1
  3350.  @h1F595  Evidence is a distant 3rd or 4th in the truther's priority of reasoning. Everything they don't like they just declare it fake, without a shred of evidence to back it up. Just watch bane2429 proceed to do just that.
    1
  3351.  @Rose187-p4f  For a long time the government's position is that the pax did not make it into the cockpit. Strange heroes, they.
    1
  3352. What real evidence do you have it was shot down? Remember, the government already admitted they did give a shoot down order, but it came too late. The only evidence I ever hear is the two debris fields found farther away, which upon analysis don't hold up to scrutiny; and the unproven conviction the government had more than enough time to act earlier. Given all the chaos and uncertainty of that morning, that argument is virtually impossible to prove.
    1
  3353. I can see it sounds odd. But what story would make more sense here?
    1
  3354. This is not the appropriate forum for religious sermons.
    1
  3355. While we don't have all the details, for me the mere fact these men rushed out the door to pursue a man they had not seen commit any crime, makes it illegal. And if you arm yourself and display weapons, and someone dies, that's manslaughter at the very least. I guess we will never know for sure if the gun was pointed at Arbery already. That would make it 2nd degree murder.
    1
  3356. Neither can the twoof movement. For both, lies are their stock in trade.
    1
  3357.  @somethinglikethat212  There were no whole bodies, but there were several hundred lbs of small body parts. I was from these that the county coroner was able to ID all the passengers except the hijackers. Look up the name Wally Miller if you honestly think he thought there were no remains at all.
    1
  3358. It's an outrage one one level. But it's not clear to me that being in a prison for life is better than not being here at all. Personally I would choose the latter.
    1
  3359.  @kitosiriikrit7573  "Acting based on your sexual impulses is wrong no matter what sex you are. " Once again, that's just your opinion. Don't pretend it's an objective fact shared by all healthy normal people.
    1
  3360. Well I would assume there's always an operational or safety reason why one (direction of a ) runway is chosen over the other. In most cases, ATCs and pilots do not get to make such a choice due to wind direction.
    1
  3361. That puts you into that minority of people who have been sucked up by the racist hysteria of our age. Racism is bad enough as is. There's no pressing need to make it seem worse than it is if you are a sensible person.
    1
  3362.  @jlorde8838  How so?
    1
  3363. He made himself the devil. Seriously, a traitor to his own country. Encouraging violence, such as his Big Lie No.2, that Harris can't win without cheating. That's designed to foment violence. He's a man in love with hate and violence. No wonder you like him.
    1
  3364. Like wishing to kill people for homosexuality. Sure thing, tell us about it. These are the morals of a thug and a butcher.
    1
  3365. It sure did. And the main proof is logic itself. There is nothing to be gained by blowing up a useless field in the middle of nowhere. Absolutely nothing. cheers
    1
  3366. Typical Miller: aggressive, moralistic, combative, self-righteous zealotry, ungracious, in short a mad ideologue.
    1
  3367. Except that He doesn't exist.
    1
  3368.  @poobycheeks  Tears? I find the whole thing terribly amusing. That people would be so upset at the existence of same sex attraction that they have to pander to one of Africa's most notorious dictators, complete with record-holding body counts, torture chambers and sham elections, and mowing down peaceful protesters. No, only hating gays is what seems to matter. This is actually entertainment of the highest order, but for the indifference to human life your hero displays.
    1
  3369.  @poobycheeks  Do you also have a degree in Bedroom Management from your venerated butcher-leader?
    1
  3370. The tradition of dictatorship? Lol
    1
  3371. Kind of pointless to single out American planes.
    1
  3372. Well this was an Algerian. But the entire point is moot because it was not his job to check the peephole. It was strictly Turkish Airlines crew members who were required to do this. It's one of those examples of a tidbit of fact that morphed into a misleading myth.
    1
  3373. But they had about 16 seconds. Probably not much difference though.
    1
  3374. I agree. We should name him Snoopzilla.
    1
  3375.  @robertlopez7988  Whatever works for you. Amtrak has become much safer in recent years. But you still can't twist the stats into Amtrak being safer than flying within the US commercial air system. By passenger miles traveled, flying is at least 50 times safer. And that would only be true if there were no fatalities. In fact there have been zero fatal air crashes (corrections welcome) in the last 10 years. By contrast Amtrak have killed 7 passengers since 2021. edit: Oops, I forgot the single Southwest fatality in 2018: was not a crash per se so I missed it.
    1
  3376. ”IF we had perfect weapons...we would not kill innocent people” That's probably the result of Harris having some background in philosophy.Those are the types of "thought experiments" they pose, and I think it helps to clarify thinking. Sam's point is designed to make clear the difference between the bombing of the Sudan plant, and 9/11. If the US did indeed possess some perfect weapon, we would be far more likely to use it, especially in the Sudan case. Whereas presumably the 911 perpetrators would not. The point is not whether this is realistic. The point is, ithilightes (arguably) a difference in mentality between the US and those who seek to intentionally maximize deaths.
    1
  3377. Thank you for your reply. Yes they can indeed, as Hiroshima and Nagasaki show. But Harris is comparing the US today, and in general terms, specifically with ISIS and Islamic terrorism in general. The further back one digs, the more likely one will find equivalent atrocities committed by any groups, including the US . But in general terms, is there not some degree of substance to the claim that a group like ISIS couldn't care less about a "perfect weapon," while western governments would be? The Sudanese bombing, for example, was , I agree, totally unjustified and did not take into consideration the probable victims. But on the other hand it could hardly be compared to 9/11 in terms of a deliberate intent to maximize civilian deaths. One doesn't have to be a supporter of US foreign policy like Harris in order to conclude that some terrorist groups are far more repugnant than the US. Would you agree?
    1
  3378.  @MrCamaleon7  ✅
    1
  3379. Suppose you found males sexually a turn on, but never found females to be a turn on. How would this have affected your life choices, if at all?
    1
  3380.  @thomascook2982  Can you change your sexual orientation if you tried? You think you can make yourself get hard by looking at d-ck? Does that sound like a good theory?
    1
  3381.  @thomascook2982  Can't answer a simple question? Shows you aren't serious,
    1
  3382.  @thomascook2982  I would count your blessing stoo. At least in the US you don't have to worry about ending up in a body bag or torture chamber, which are specialties of the Ugandan president.
    1
  3383.  @thomascook2982  If you can manage to stay out of a body bag,
    1
  3384.  @thomascook2982  Not if you were one of the 54 peaceful mostly heterosexuals protesting last election in Uganda. In the US we don't have to worry about our own government shooting us down for being against it. Nice try.
    1
  3385.  @thomascook2982  Just like you.
    1
  3386.  @stopcensorship7705  Actually, it is you who wins the prize for the all-around most addicted poster, a broken record if there ever was.
    1
  3387.  @stopcensorship7705  I have a hobby making sketches of people based on the things they say. I've got pretty good at it lately. Your sketches indicate someone very yummy and very juicy.
    1
  3388.  @stephenking4170  Sins are in the eye of the beholder. Invoking religion proves nothing, as no religion or person has ever proven their sayings and teachings are god's words.
    1
  3389. I'm a republican too. It might be best for the country except that in his own words, he would dismantle the constitution. Why do you think Dick Cheney -- who agrees with you in principle -- has warned how dangerous he has become? You are taking a big risk voting for a psychopath, and one who is now clearly in the beginning stages of dementia and who has become obsessed with violence. His fellow madman, Netanyahu, is busily risking WW3, and Trump supports him all the way. Please think carefully one more time before tomorrow. We can wait 4 more years.
    1
  3390.  @johnstedman4075  It can be either way. In lists of major airline crashes, terrorist acts are usually included. Top 10 or 25 lists almost always include Air India 182, Pan Am 103. For example wiki's "List of deadliest aircraft accidents and incidents."
    1
  3391. Posted by B for bot.
    1
  3392. There's nothing very questionable about the basics.
    1
  3393. If we were really serious, we would declare a state of emergency, ban all commercial flights, immediately set a goal of 5 years for all carbon emissions. Basically shut down society. Better than the alternative. But instead, in my apple news feed, people carry on as before, as exemplified by the latest feature in People Magazine: "Watch this child's magical hug with a gentle horse." In a sense we deserve what's coming.
    1
  3394.  @ArchTeryx00  I don't know if you meant this literally, but the cockpit cameras did not debut on this flight, as they were already widely known and popular at AA. Maybe it was fairly recent though.
    1
  3395.  @loco4x4  Though according to the NTSB this failure mode should have been incorporated into the design.
    1
  3396.  @loco4x4  Very true. But I'm wondering, isn't it usually the case that even the complete separation of an engine should not normally result in the plane crashing. Would it be likely that if a 777 or 787 or A330 engine were to peel away on takeoff that the risk of a crash would be as great as flight 191? And if so, should these designs be deemed reasonably safe? If not, then what would the excuse be for the DC-10? Asking a lot of theoretical questions, so just brain storming aloud.
    1
  3397. That's exactly why AI doesn't exist. It's more akin to artificial stupidity. AI is just mathematics, which has nothing to do with intelligence.
    1
  3398.  @Sorrowblast  It only shows that common sense is in the eye of the beholder.
    1
  3399. Yes, but for women, it seems their dreams are to follow their men. They are crazy about them, and that's the reality that gets ignored by so may radical feminists.
    1
  3400. You brim with rage, and I have no doubt, you're probably a violent person too. Have you ever been arrested? Wouldn't surprise me. Everyone looking at your behavior is saying, that person has some sort of anger management issue. He can't control his impulses. All he can do is shout insults and expletives. If that's the image you wish to present, that's your business. In the long run it will only hurt you, not me. Cheers
    1
  3401. You obviously can't do research. Ethiopian flight 302 also completely buried itself. About .02 percent of the wreckage of F93 fell more than a 1.5 miles distant, and all of it light paper debris and insulation. I keep forgetting this is Youtube.
    1
  3402.  @stevevarTX  It didn't all "dissolve." There were pictures taken of flight 93 and presented in an exhibit for the Moussaoui trial, which included the black boxes, part of an engine and a 5-7 ft piece of 757 skin with window panes clearly in the UA livery. Thus it is not true there wasn't even "one suitcase." 911 represented a fairly rare type of plane crash: high speed, steep angle. But there have been a few others, such as Northwest flight 710, whose entire fuselage was swallowed whole by the earth. It can be just as shocking to investigators: "The residue of flight 710 was something even the most veteran investigators had never come across before. There were no bodies." In the case of PSA flight 1771, 1st responders had no idea they were looking at an ailriner. It was just confetti strewn on a hillside.
    1
  3403.  @stevevarTX  The engine is not all titanium. Look up Ethiopian flight 302 wreckage engines, and you'll see the core part of an engine shorn of its cowling and outer parts. I mean, this is a no-brainer. "22 caliber bulle-t can tra-vel over 1 ½ mile. A center-fire bullet can travel several miles." That bullets can travel over 1.5 miles shows that unless you talk to a crash physics expert, you are speculating to claim tiny parts from an airplane cannot be blasted such distances.
    1
  3404. He's not going to jail. Sorry to disappoint.
    1
  3405. Nope, didn't happen.
    1
  3406.  @jotammerretenezeta4509  At the very beginning of the collapse, of course the tilt gives way to straight down because the part that's sagging straightens out once the upper block completely shears off the from perimeter columns. After that, I don't think you can tell due to all the smoke and debris that there's still a changing path. But if you want to illustrate with a video link, I'm happy to have a look again.
    1
  3407.  @jotammerretenezeta4509  The link did not show up on my end. If you have the title with exact length, I can probably find it.
    1
  3408.  @Spacelove360  That's exactly what the ant-gay crowd is obsessed with. You think gays have sex in in the Kitchen?
    1
  3409.  @ijumpjudyy  It's an understandable reaction to decades of being labeled mentally ill, and anti-gay public sentiment. if these people kept their hateful mouths shut, then gays would not feel a need to express themselves. In Uganda, you can be executed for being gay. So who is more dangerous, gay people having sex, or a murderous butcher, whose death tolls have exceed those of both Oboto and Idi-Amin? That's what people should be concerned with. Instead they are obsessed with poo. And BTW in the US one in 3 heterosexuals admit to having had anal sex the previous year. Are you obsessed with their poo too?
    1
  3410.  @Pk-io6xe  The only real argument is the stuff stinks, and the people that smoke in public places and stink up gas stations when they come in, are selfish pigs who couldn't be bothered by the effect it has on others.
    1
  3411. Could someone help me here. I don't get the part about the sneakers: At 17:12 they ask Sheila why "he didn't take these shoes." I'm a bit lost. Take them where?
    1
  3412. Yes, it's most curious. If she was given orders it would have been after flight 93 had crashed, as that's what the timeline has established (see The Eleventh Hour). According to the Daily Mail she only found out F93 crashed "hours later."
    1
  3413. "Looks like a demolition." That's because it effectively was. Once the support weakens enough at one floor, then the whole thing just comes down on top of it. Demolitioners use explosives. The 9/11 hijackers used fully fueled airlines. In both cases, it is GRAVITY that causes the rapid collapse. Ask any CD expert of your choosing nd they will confirm this.
    1
  3414. And he joins the millions of others in the world (the West included lest I be accused of arrogance) obsessed with what goes on inside the bedroom.
    1
  3415.  @stopcensorship7705  Face reality. Since you fail abysmally in the natural sciences, you chose an easier degree: Bedroom Management.
    1
  3416. Also keep in mind the building was expected to collapse, and all the news agencies were told this. You might also recall other media blunders, such as the FOX news report that Pope John Paul II died the day before he actually did.
    1
  3417. Don't think so. Men jogging shirtless outside is well within accepted boundaries.
    1
  3418.  @thematic3893  I guess you don't understand the concept of an analogy. There has indeed been a proposal for executing gays in Uganda. And Ugandan president favored life in prison for gays. That's oppression by any decent standard.
    1
  3419. What fact did I get wrong?
    1
  3420.  @thematic3893  You don't have to discuss this if you don't want to. I'm curious though, not liking gays or gay life choices is one thing. But do you support laws discriminating against them?
    1
  3421.  @thematic3893  Happy to have the final word here: To summarize, the primary point for me is not about respecting African values versus respecting Western values. We should be respecting human values: Don't jail or harass or detain illegally, beat up gays just because people don't like them or what they do in the bedroom. Violence based on not liking someone is retrograde. The government of Uganda has practiced all of these in recent years. Uganda too can do what we do in the US: stick your nose out of people's private lives, and live your own life. And yes, the US meddles in other country's affairs. In that department, we are much worse than Uganda. If people in Uganda want us to respect their society, that's perfectly OK. But it's hypocrisy to demand respect for one group (Uganda) and deny it to another (gays.) That's selective respect.
    1
  3422. What's the problem?
    1
  3423. I agree this was relatively speaking a model situation. My guess is the cuffs were mandatory by law. Either way, I think it's wrong. Until such time a suspect actually starts causing trouble, keep the cuffs out of the picture. But maybe that's naive. All in all though, more compliments than criticism.
    1
  3424. Or the heart-rending picture of the plane as it taxied towards the runway.
    1
  3425. He could have shown greater leadership instead of continuing to read "My Pet Goat" for another 7 minutes. I think that speaks to his massive incompetence as a leader.
    1
  3426.  @Eclipse-lw4vf  No, I am referring to the fact that after the SECOND plane hit, he kept reading for several minutes.
    1
  3427. Do tell us what the government had to gain by faking a plane crash in the middle of nowhere. BTW the coroner ID'd all the passengers. It seems you hear news stories selectively.
    1
  3428.  @AndrewJones-cx6kl  Interesting.
    1
  3429. It could be, but that wouldn't prove she's not sincere.
    1
  3430. Well, isn't this fun. I've scared away all the uncivil posters with their insults, expletives and self-righteous accusations. Now maybe people can discuss this crash as serious students of both the evidence and of fair play. What is it that causes some people to flip at the slightest deviation from their approved narrative? This form of censorship is hypocrisy, coming from the same people who announce they are for the "American Way" and all that. They are the 1st to try and shut others up.
    1
  3431. I agree there's toxic femininity. But extreme claims don't help, especially as there's no proof.
    1
  3432. you forgot Elvis
    1
  3433. Bryan did express remorse, but I don't recall the others doing so. His sentence was IMO a serious miscarriage of justice.
    1
  3434.  @JuanGonzales-zd9yf  I agree, it's probably not sincere. But presumably expressing remorse matters to you on some level or you wouldn't have mentioned it.
    1
  3435.  @JuanGonzales-zd9yf  But either way a life sentence for Bryan is totally wrong, racist slime though he is.
    1
  3436.  @JuanGonzales-zd9yf  That's speculative. But what is not nearly as speculative is the fact that Bryan joined the foray without any pre-planning or for knowledge. Phone records confirm there were no phone contact between Bryan and the McMichaels from the time the chase started, going back to the evening before. And Bryan didn't bring a gun, which doesn't sound much like a premeditated attack. So I think Bryan should get due process = benefit of the doubt. The felony murder rule makes a mockery of that in this case.
    1
  3437.  @JuanGonzales-zd9yf  "obviously Bryon was the designated film maker. " Justice has to be based on solid evidence, not weak speculation. I think you would agree with that. None of this rises to the level of a life sentence. Tell me the principles you use in formulating who gets life in prison. Most people would say intent to kill must be present. There's no proof Bryan tried to kill someone. Due process means proof, not personal speculation.
    1
  3438.  @JuanGonzales-zd9yf  If Bryan pre-planned it, why did he not bring his gun? I refuse to elevate my speculation to the status of proof. Also, and this is what should alert you to the problems with your theory. It was Bryan himself who handed over the videotape. You would have us believe coldblooded killer would eagerly hand over the evidence to the police? That shows that in his mind, he was not part of a pre-meditated plan, and that alone counts as reasonable doubt. That all said, I have no sympathy for these men and I'm glad they're in jail. At least we agree on that.
    1
  3439.  @JuanGonzales-zd9yf  "This was a coordinated effort. Otherwise, he would not have been allowed to film the assault." This is getting silly. WHO would have prevented him from filming?? The McMichaels?? Would they even know he had a camera? And if they did, you are suggesting the two men would have stopped chasing Arbery and instead pursued Bryan and tell him to stop filming?? You can do better than that, can't you?
    1
  3440.  @N-gineer  No different in principle than believers knowing for sure the bible is god's word. How can one know such a thing?
    1
  3441. Are you a robot?
    1
  3442. At the memorial site.
    1
  3443. It might not have made a difference. Since Turkish Airlines extinguished the warning light function a few weeks before the crash, they would undoubtedly have done the same to any aural alarm. The delays the cargo door was causing to their operation became a nuisance. They also re-rigged the locking pins to make the door extra easy to close, thus eliminating the final indication of n improperly closed door.
    1
  3444. I think it was simply too expensive to do that. And to be fair, only one other subsequent crash was design-related; but not nearly as much as flight 191.
    1
  3445. Not according to Jan Bartelski's book. The climax of the game was right bout the time of take off. Do you have a source?
    1
  3446.  @tomcrawford2054  I've certainly noticed, and lamented, YouTube's desire to purge what they consider to be 911 conspiracy mongering and therefore, false information. Even though I do not buy most of the arguments of the truth movement, I am totally outraged at the attempt to block what should be freedom of speech. Personally, I don't make too much more of it because this is part of the very recent broad trend by many media to try and play God with the public, as if there's an absolute object standard on every last issue. I think we are in agreement in disliking that. But that doesn't mean the motive is necessarily complicity with the government. It's IMO more cowardice, bowing to the left liberal extremist desperation to cater to every micro whine, every attempt to turn disagreement into "hate speech." For example this new trend to pretend we care about black people by insisting "black" should start with a capital B, but white remain small case w. That's so utterly insulting to basic civility. I noticed the BBC has not yet caught on to this. But I'm sure they will eventually follow suit.
    1
  3447.  @jordangourley3955  There was indeed.
    1
  3448.  @tomcrawford2054  Thanks. I have researched to death as well. I guess it just shows again how fascinating it is that we all see things so differently.
    1
  3449.  @tomcrawford2054  And you too!
    1
  3450. No real evidence of a shoot down. The debris pattern here was nothing like Lockerbie. There was no engine 8 miles away on flight 93. Only lite paper/insulation was found 8 miles distant. It was also found downwind, not the area over which a shoot down would have happened.
    1
  3451. Yes, but the truth mvt is just as guilty of believing the media - when its suits them - such as the mistaken report that building 7 had already collapsed. I bet you are not suspicious of that media report, right?
    1
  3452.  @aleksandarmarkovic1013  Yes, I agree. I thought you might be a 9/11-denier as in my experience it is they who usually make such statements. What truthers also seem not to recognize is that the forums and websites they rely on are also media. Some of the worst there are IMO. But that's another discussion.
    1
  3453. Not lunatic, but very narrow in focus, and failing to imagine why such an answer could be the result of deliberate human programming.
    1
  3454.  @gameon2928  "you are not born with attraction" What you need is proof. That's what this debate is about. Certainly many of us are at least born with a greater capacity to like certain things over others: sexual attraction to people rather than trees; preferring the taste of ice cream over excrement, or preferring to use your right hand (most people.) So we simply cannot rule out a major biological input for homosexual attraction.
    1
  3455.  @gameon2928  "kids aren’t born with sexual attraction," You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not talking about sexual attraction when you're a baby or small child. Duh !! I'm talking about pre-existing tendencies that express themselves later as adults. In any case, the question of how much biology plays a role in sexual orientation is absolutely still on the table for discussion. If you think otherwise, you aren't going by the rules of scientific inquiry. You are going by the the rules of "if I say so, I am right." Or if you are going by serious evidence and analysis, kindly cite it. Otherwise, don't be a know-it-all PS denouncing is not evidence.
    1
  3456.  @gameon2928  "the point remains" There is no point without evidence.
    1
  3457.  @gameon2928  Oops, your grammar's wrong. "It's" is not a legitimate pronoun replacement for "you're"
    1
  3458.  @gameon2928  True. So why do you use them?
    1
  3459. I agree with Whoopi Goldberg's recent characterization. Paula Deen is not a "racist racist." If she is racist, it's the type where you carry around silly stereotypes, and those stereotypes are revealed indirectly, such as the bizarre plantation wedding theme, and her inability to use the word "slavery" when describing her great-grandfather's slaves. As to use of the n-word. She said she used in on 2 occasions, and never directly as an insult to anyone.
    1
  3460.  @CorpusGreed  Well how do you know that the mother knew the child could get into the exhibit? The district attorney refused to prosecute because you and others keep making this weird assumption that parents can be 100% perfect at all times. That's a defective paradigm. And, as witnesses stated, the mom WAS watching her kids, but all it takes is one second to move your head away, and a child can slip away. I recommend reading the many comments of parents who are 100% meticulous but conceded that anything can happen, even to them. Like the thread below with 174 replies.
    1
  3461.  @HYDROCARBON_XD  But that assumes that loosing track of your child is always negligence. By all accounts, the mom turned her head away for a brief instant. The idea of the perfect parent is a defective paradigm. And you don't expect your child will be be able to drop in front a of a gorilla in mere seconds. That's why the DA refused to prosecute. That's just my view, and I appreciate your sharing yours,
    1
  3462. I said she took her EYES off of him for an "instant." In an instant you can lose track of a child. I did not say the child "took an instant"to go from being lost track of into the exhibit. But he did so rather quickly.By all accounts he was in there in mere seconds. i.e. less than a minute. Please don't be overly literal. If I am in error, kindly quote the part of the story that says otherwise.
    1
  3463.  @kirikiti5425  Once again, you are approaching the issue with the defective paradigm that human beings can always be 100% perfect. Where did you ever get that idea from? Certainly not the real world. Where human infallibility has been refuted time and again. Even people who "have 100 percent attention" are not immune from error, period.
    1
  3464.  @ItsYoBoyJesusPreacher  And I know the results of the police investigation, which involved several witnesses. On that basis no charges were filed.
    1
  3465.  @ItsYoBoyJesusPreacher  Well that's quite a bit of speculation.
    1
  3466.  @StaleArt  You are asking for a world in which none of us inhabit: absolute perfection.
    1
  3467.  @krazedsuperman  Omg, calm down why don't you. There's no need to be yelling. That said, thank you for your replies. I see your point. I think my main point boils down to this: we live in a world where there is no such thing as 100% perfection. If you agree with that, then what is there to be arguing about? cheers
    1
  3468.  @krazedsuperman  Translation: everyone must agree with me, the superior krazedsuperman, or they are i-diots, which would include the county prosecutor, and Jane Goodall I suspect, who weighed in too. YOU ARE SUPERIOR IN VIRTUE OF YOUR BEING YOU. Got it
    1
  3469.  @SamFindley-zt7mt  Or if the zoo had built a safer enclosure.
    1
  3470.  @SamFindley-zt7mt  Curious whom you think had the greater responsibility to protect this child. Zoo or parents?
    1
  3471. Fair enough. But on the other hand, so do the women who rush to marry alpha males and misogynists, the women who make excuses for them. Yes, perhaps most men are worse. But only by so much.
    1
  3472. He predicted Biden for 2020, no? I I get it, your baseless belief he stole the election? Based on absolutely zero evidence? Got it.
    1
  3473. I don't think your message is clear. Who is making a mockery of what? The organizer of the trip? Please clarify.
    1
  3474. Yes, everyone seems to have not read the full report. where this inadequacy is plainly spelled out in the accident cause synopsis on page 3 of the report.
    1
  3475. It wasn't the baggage handler's job to check the peep hole. It also required he get down from the ramp and climb another ladder to have a look. There was a stand in for the absent mechanic. They flew him down from London, and he was killed on the flight. Fore reasons we will never know, he failed to do the check. A far more serious breech of the airline was its tampering with the door's safety mechanisms just weeks before the flight. Either by mistake, or deliberately, someone turned the locking pins in the wrong direction so that virtually no force was required to close it. Thus the only means of detecting a problem - having to push harder- was eliminated. That is most likely why the crash didn't happen during the first year of ship 29's service, and why the crash became essentially inevitable after the unauthorized maintenance.
    1
  3476. Just be careful not to protest during election time.
    1
  3477. If it was an inside job, why did they want to crash a plane in the middle of nowhere?
    1
  3478. Some of us feel it's better to let a site like that rest in peace. But there turned out to be some very good evidence found: passenger pictures and videos proving Captain Collins was meticulous in keeping his aircraft in clear air thoughout.
    1
  3479. Indeed, the world changes as the scriptures remain stagnant, unable to free themselves from the cultural backwardness of its ancient authors. This is why most Christians just ignore the cruel and brutal parts.
    1
  3480. And that includes 35% of American men, as the Pews Research polls show. Once again, the posters on here don't even know the definition of homosexuality. They define out of existence gay women, who presumably don't practice b - - sex. So you are also sexist. Women just don't figure into your definitions. I'm a gay man, and I am no more interested in doing this than most people. BUT, I tolerate you because I can understand why people feel the way you do.
    1
  3481.  @allanlock4561  Like I said, you don't know what homosexual means.
    1
  3482. This is about flight 93, not 77.
    1
  3483.  @JohnStedman-d4s  Well you certainly are a very informed poster. In regard to "insidious mental affliction," it's a point that has been made in regard to the concept of heuristics, as you undoubtedly know. These mistakes can happen unconsciously, thus being impossible to detect as they happen. A most interesting article about mistaken-for-game hunting accidents also points out it is often the most experienced hunters who makes these mistakes. I think the most mysterious action of Van Zanten was his first application of engine thrust. Was he merely revving his engines, said to be common in early 747s? If so, was Meurs merely pointing out this was a premature action to be taking even before route clearance? A final observation I've made before about the terrorist being the "root cause". It's tempting to blame the terrorists. But in theory such an event could also have prevented an accident. This shows the danger of conflating bad intentions with unpredictable consequences.
    1
  3484. I'm against brainwashing. But violence is worse.
    1
  3485. Murder means unlawful killing. So by definition, if you make it legal, it is no longer murder.
    1
  3486. The article didn't take sides. So why is it wrong?
    1
  3487. And Turkish Airlines, which is rarely acknowledged.
    1
  3488. All these claims, so little evidence.
    1
  3489. No, as in any serious accident investigation it is important to list all contributory factors. I think what you really mean is, KLM made the only really big mistake. Fair enough.
    1
  3490. Not to worry, this innocent ape is somewhat like minded. Maybe it's just wrong to bring a child into this world, especially as the planet is dying. My sympathy and love go out to all who have experienced abuse like this.
    1
  3491.  @catrol5899  I agree. The denial of global warming is frightening.
    1
  3492.  @alyssaj.2659  Well I think that since the age difference was only 2 1/2 years, the statutory rape charge seems misguided. Most states now have an age difference clause to account for the absurdity of, say, a 16 year old having sex with a 16 year old. To my mind, 2 1/2 years is at least in a grey area. In essence, this prosecution is tantamount to criminalizing ordinary teenage sex. Is that the route we really want to go? What if he were 18 and she 17? Or he 17 and she 16? Should that be statutory rape?
    1
  3493. You're right, that was an exaggeration. But bottom line, he did the right thing by pulling over a dangerous driver. And he did the right thing by handcuffing her.
    1
  3494.  @benklusman7565  I think the worst the cops did was when the back up cop used the B word. THAT is abuse, even if true. I think he should be suspended for that. But the boyfriend was just such a big pain in the a-- I have absolutely no sympathy for him. None.
    1
  3495. When dealing with 2nd rate minds, no such answers are required. They cannot clearly articulate why a fake crash was needed. Flight 93 was irrelevant, a useless crash in the middle of nowhere makes not an iota of sense in terms of contributing to the alleged false flag.
    1
  3496. Absolutely. But people tend to fit evidence into a preconceived narrative. Maybe some homeowner is remodeling her home, so she steps inside to see if there are any ideas she can use. How much imagination does that take.
    1
  3497.  @follower8815  The definition of gay, as established by usage, can be either behavior in accordance with gay attraction, or just having the attraction itself. Can we all agree on that?
    1
  3498.  @TheFaySchoolKids  Sop Science also cannot rule out hormonal levels as causing homosexuality. When confronted with this fact, he resorts to the bizarre claim that hormonal imbalances are not immutable. This misconstrues the concept of mutability with the concept of causation. They are not mutually exclusive. But this level of abstraction is light years beyond our overgrown resident teenage scientist.
    1
  3499.  @TheFaySchoolKids  "He is 12." Yes, I suppose I am being too generous.
    1
  3500. The only problem is that the demolitions make no sense unless you invent ever more elaborate theories for which demonstrable proof is absent.
    1
  3501. Indeed. At the time of Paris, a National DC-10 was inspected and it also did not have the required modifications. That was the third such aircraft. And it took AA over a year to comply with the service bulletins. The airlines took their own sweet time and did what they wanted.
    1
  3502. Well awc is a self-proclaimed know-it-all, so why does he need proof? Same for his 9/11 claims and inability to analyze evidence, and looking up the wrong plane crash, and then denying it. he fools only himself. It's comic relief, but down deep is a bitter person who has no sense of civility or fair play. Hence lies and insults emamante from him with ease, just like exile and a thousand other people who can't behave nicely in Youtube. They're all cut from the same stamp of nastiness.
    1
  3503. Willie Rodriguez is easy. You and he are making the unproven assumption that he actually heard the plane impact. But if you discard that unproven assertion, it becomes apparent he heard at last two of several explosions that happened after the plane impact., and simply ASSUMED one of those was the plane impact.
    1
  3504. Pure speculation.
    1
  3505. But there's no moral consensus, nor definitive proof, that the unborn have the same full human value as you and me. The same might be then said of newborns; but since there's a consensus by then, and because it's impossible to imagine a consensus AFTER birth, the moment of birth remains the most rational place to draw the legal line. As I see it, of course.
    1
  3506.  @GoogleAccount-wy1ub  As I said, you cannot point to a definitive proof.
    1
  3507.  @GoogleAccount-wy1ub  I don't have definitive proof either. I'm glad we are both not trying to go down that impossible path. I propose that without a brain there can be no meaningful person or human being. Could that be as reasonable as "when life begins"?
    1
  3508.  @GoogleAccount-wy1ub  That's a very interesting scenario, a definite challenge. I'd really have to think about it. Tentatively my sense is probably not, as we are talking in the realm of potential person, if we accept my criterion of having brain function in the present to qualify as "meaningful person." But it's a very tricky issue, as I see it.
    1
  3509. That's not why she drew a weapon. Let's get real here.
    1
  3510. I would actually go a bit further than Dr. Grande. In my book, involuntary manslaughter implies the victim has limited or even no control over his victimization. This is easily recognized in drunk driving cases, or other forms of negligence that lead to death. But what no one (that I've seen) is questioning here is, does being suicidally depressed of necessity deprive you of free will? That's yet another element of reasonable doubt. We will never know if she pushed him over the edge against his will, or pushed him over the edge by his taking her advice into consideration the way we all do when having conversations with others.
    1
  3511. I agree. I think for some the satisfaction of the verdict is based on cruelty. Some people just want to stick it to others as a basic principle. The cruelty part is also manifested in trying to assume the worst of her, rather than what's supposed to happen in due process. Give the benefit of unproven facts to the accused. To me at least, this case was another example of trashing this concept. What was to a degree inherently speculative was twisted by the prosecutor into certainty, and at every opportunity making Potter out to be selfish and uncaring. My criticism extends to not allowing her have a final Xmas dinner with her family when she hasn't even been sentenced yet. Granted, that's a very controversial position, and bound to produce much rage, and more discomfort for the Wright family. To me, we should err on the side of compassion. I don't think there's been much of that coming from the Wright family, if I'm not mistaken. It's all just good versus evil. Dehumanizing everyone who makes a mistake is part of the problem and seems to be on the upswing.
    1
  3512. Wrong.
    1
  3513.  @dannycox4909  As long as we are both civil and respectful, sure.
    1
  3514.  @dannycox4909  OK, if you want to have this discussion, let me begin: what's your source of evidence that cell phones don't function on jets.
    1
  3515.  @dannycox4909  Still waiting for that positive debate.
    1
  3516.  @dannycox4909  Thanks. And what is your proof?
    1
  3517.  @dannycox4909  OK, that's fair. Some questions: -How many times have you tried to make a cell phone call from an airplane? -How come there are telecom experts on public record who have stated it's possible? I've spoken to 2 myself. One pointed out to me that back in 2001 most cell phones were analog which gave them greater range. -How do you account for the 2003 study that tracked 37 flights up and down the East Coast? it used sophisticated equipment which detected cell call connections at all phases of flight. Its author, Bill Strauss told me in a phone call the calls made on 9/11 were absolutely possible. -What would be the motive for a government to fake phone calls with provably impossible technology? And for what purpose? How would the fallout from 9/11 have been different had there been no cell phone or airfone calls? Would the US have been unable to retaliate without passenger phone calls? Thanks
    1
  3518. "guys somehow didn't figure" Not sure I see that point. Either way, the terrorists were not about to cancel their mission. Why would it matter to the government after the fact whether the terrorists did or did not know?
    1
  3519. A sad day in the Rogan saga.
    1
  3520. Especially the ones who blame the parent.
    1
  3521. The total collapse time was more like 16 seconds. Not that that would make much difference.
    1
  3522. And notice how everyone recognized we were essentially at war with terrorists by 9:02am. Another proof the demolition of three skyscrapers was massive overkill and unnecessary for the War on Terror. Yet another one of the gaping theoretical flaws upon which 911 truth rests.
    1
  3523. True.
    1
  3524. Or if they were still conscious they might have been in an altered state, a common effect of sudden violent trauma, if I'm not mistaken.
    1
  3525.  @Klako-ls6yt  I don't mean to paint with too broad a brush, but I have found that every single pro-life argument I have had on Youtube has indeed boiled down to religion. Penetrating too deeply into the fragile grey areas of the issue is generally not the pro-lifer's forte. Much more comforting to see things in black and white than to admit to valid disagreement. On the other hand one can't deny both sides are highly polarized more than the hard objective facts might dictate.
    1
  3526. All that's missing is the proof.
    1
  3527. You don't have any way to measure the degree of chaos going on that morning. And in any case, there's no proof.
    1
  3528.  @raventalks2776  There's mounds of evidence -impact crater perfectly matching a 757 40 degrees nose down -passenger phone calls -wreckage pics include engine core, black boxes, 5x7 piece of fuselage -enough body fragments to ID most pax -FDR readout published -Trooper finds engine part in catch basin -ATC radar tracked it there -cockpit found in trees -12 witnesses who saw the impact into the ground -impact smoke plume pic -plane IDd by United Airlines -1100 people representing 73 organizations involved in recovery effort -none to my knowledge reported any anomalies. And now the evidence all this was faked: zero Finally, where was all the wreckage from the shoot down?
    1
  3529. No, but the liberals do not support a certified psychopath. Big difference.
    1
  3530.  @network263  But there's no proof she was confused. In fact, in situations like this, mistakes can be entirely unconscious. This is what the study of human bias under stress shows. Any one of us can make such a mistake, however rarely.
    1
  3531.  @network263  Not so. Most people are unfamiliar with the study of heuristics, or decision making under stress. It shows that under a deadline, none of us can be perfect. And even worse, the errors we make can be entirely unconscious. Thus we cannot protect ourselves from them. Even the most meticulous and experienced are subject to this. This contradicts common sense. It's another fascinating example where reality routinely outsmarts us.
    1
  3532. I admire the judge for taking racist crimes seriously and not making more excuses for racist thugs. But I question his certainty about malice murder. Either way I'm glad they are in jail.
    1
  3533. But that misses the point.
    1
  3534.  @cccc9911  OK, let's do this. Please give a link, or google search term that shows plane parts said to be from flight 93 that are inconsistent with a 757.
    1
  3535.  @TRivera13  I agree. And there's no doubt that religion, not genuine empathy, is driving this. That said, the argument that "others" excludes the unborn is open to possible objection.
    1
  3536.  @HogExeNadoUser  And the worst mass murderer in the country's history. No, as long as gays are disgusting, nothing else matters.
    1
  3537. In many states there's an age-difference clause which would have voided these charges. What's your take on that?
    1
  3538. The bible also says children cursing their parents should surely be executed. Are you going to tell us with a straight face God authored those words too? Would you support executing a child for cursing too? Or can only God have that point of view?
    1
  3539. This isn't a natural cycle though. Never before has warming been this sudden. And it was all predicted as far back as the 1960s. They got it exactly right except for one thing. No one ever imagined it would happen this quickly. So you're totally and completely wrong.
    1
  3540. Because his mental health status HELPS his (Arbery's) case. It protects him against the claim he should have "known better not to charge Travis."
    1
  3541. Except that it's unlikely the third man, Bryan, set out to murder him. He left his rifle at home.
    1
  3542. WHO searched the video?
    1
  3543. But both pilots said it, and not shocking to me given the year, and the context.
    1
  3544. Why do people post gibberish.
    1
  3545. Arrogant though he may have been, it's really speculation to say it was the primary cause of the crash. Especially since there seems to be a myth that started way back then about this. Credible confirmation of this is hard to come by, at least the idea he was more arrogant than other pilots out there. For example, failing to abort upon the FE's question, thought a violation of CRM today, would probably have been rather normal back then.
    1
  3546.  @aflairforthedramatics  I agree in general, but some countries do have distinctively more revolting cultures regarding s-xual assault and misogyny, like that of honor killing. South Africa and India have been far more implicated in rape culture than the West, in general. And women have overall been far worse treated in many Middle East countries, as we all know to well.
    1
  3547. What about the zoo? Don't they have a responsible to make sure a child-oriented business is safe for children?
    1
  3548. Your'e a teenage punk who doesn't understand the nature of evidence. You said you don't talk to trolls. Well here you are, back again, just like you said you wouldn't. I've just made a total fool of you - documented your lie. WITH EXACT QUOTE AND PAGE NUMBER. Go for it. Try to run away from it. Or be a man an admit you were wrong, and we move on to other subjects. You are really turning out to be a con-artist. I debunk you with 100% documentation and you STILL deny it.
    1
  3549. Your opinion shows again how so much of humanity lacks balance, and the ability to control their darkest impulses. Your mindset is precisely why we have a justice system that at least has the possibility of a fair trial. It's an insurance policy against people with poor judgement, and a passion for cruelty, like you. Instead, society has given a place for such people. It's called Youtube. Where you belong.
    1
  3550. So do I. But not the madman running it.
    1
  3551. Do you think we are all that stupid? Seriously.
    1
  3552. As long as Trump remains in the picture, a fair election cannot be guaranteed.
    1
  3553. You have to consider heuristics: a field of study that invalidates the assumption that careful people can always avoid stupid mistakes.
    1
  3554. If you count two pieces of paper as a debris field, then I suppose it is.
    1
  3555. Respect and integrity have nothing to do with imposing life sentences on people you don't like. But that is exactly what Musevini supports. It is lower order humans, meaning those for whom violence is a guiding beacon, who are the most perverse.
    1
  3556. I would say the two cases are almost the same but for one potential difference. Zimmerman/Trayvon not only lacked video, it had some potential reasonable doubt. How certain can we be that Zimmerman is lying when he states that he turned around to back to his car, then Trayvon came from behind and attacked him? If this counts as reasonable doubt, then effectively Trayvon is now the aggressor, as a merely scared person would retreat, not pursue. The equivalent in the Arbery killing would be if at first Arbery retreated, then when the McMichaels got back to their house, and opened the car door, Arbery suddenly lunged at them. Obviously the McMichaels have no case for anything like this.
    1
  3557. Well, but if she was still in the middle of a seizure maybe she couldn't. I don't know if the sentence is too harsh. I understand the anguish of the family. But when I hear anyone say, as did one of the family, they feel great joy that Perera will be suffering for the rest of her life. OK, it's totally understandable. But gaining joy from anyone's suffering seems ultimately a flaw in human nature, even though we all have thoughts like that.
    1
  3558. Hey, someone asked you a question. Why do people like you always refuse to answer this simple question? The question appears to be very challenging to unrigorous minds.
    1
  3559. And the pop-up-ads known as 911 truth. You cannot escape them.
    1
  3560. It doesn't, she said that herself.
    1
  3561. Yes, a sense of due process and balance seems missing in almost every opinion I've heard.
    1
  3562. It does. It also often makes me heart broken that people are dying to bring babies into a dangerous world, which ensures such suffering will continue.
    1
  3563. We got both justice and injustice. -The scumbag racists went to jail = justice -felony murder = injustice, especially in regard to black defendants over the years -Life w/o parole = injustice. This wasn't even pre-meditated murder. Here's a case where racist hysteria ruled the court. These men weren't on trial for their actual crimes, but for the entire history of white Southern racism in all its hideous ugliness. I get it. Decent folk are fed up with racism, and have lost all patience. But that's precisely where due process and reasonable doubt should be put to the test. As Noam Chomsky said in another context, freedom of speech doesn't mean very much unless we uphold it when we revile what's being said. Similarly here, when we are filled with loathing and disgust, the principles of justice need to be upheld, not to be casually dispensed with, as they were here.
    1
  3564. All that's missing is the proof.
    1
  3565.  @timmy5387  That's precisely when it's a choice.
    1
  3566.  @timmy5387  I was just concurring with you. Youtube posters have very little logical ability.
    1
  3567. @Ting Tong I'm speaking as a generality. "Men are tall" isn't intended to mean there's no such thing as a short man. So your post more or less confirms my general claim. Taking things too literally is one sign of this flawed reasoning.
    1
  3568. Who exactly is this warmonger? A CNN journalist who asks two totally neutral questions and doesn't even make a single remark herself?
    1
  3569.  @stopcensorship7705  Stupid doesn't equal warmongering, now does it?
    1
  3570.  @MalingAsliSukolilo  Who brought god into the conversation, other than you? I respect on some level the fact some people don't like gays, or even say it's disgusting. What I don't respect ever, is advocating violence against gays. We should all be in agreement on that. Right? But the government of Uganda has proposed in recent years the death penalty, and life in prison for gays. I would hope you agree that ruining someone's life is wrong just because you don't like them or their behavior. What do you say?
    1
  3571.  @MalingAsliSukolilo  Yes, that's all true. Killing gays is no more acceptable than these other things that happen in my country. I'm glad you are in agreement with me.
    1
  3572.  @MalingAsliSukolilo  "you said OMG. It s an abbreviation of oh my god," If you can't ferret out the meaning of that expression, and take it super literally like a robot, no wonder you have changed the subject so many times. You need to stay more focused on the issues you bring up, and not get side tracked by triviality.
    1
  3573.  @MalingAsliSukolilo  Being side tracked and becoming obsessed with trivial insights is not how serious discussion works. Giving the president of Uganda a chance to tell off America, and then saying that's war mongering is, is pure projection. Tearing apart an idiom is sheer rage.
    1
  3574.  @stopcensorship7705  "thing is, you're not taken seriously because you're in need of therapy." Well there's no proven therapy for gay men, so you're living in a dream world. As the Pew research surveys show, the majority of people in the West now accept homosexuality. Nice try, though.
    1
  3575. Almost as disgraceful as blaming the parent.
    1
  3576. I don't see why everyone's getting excited. Should we assume the film is credible before seeing it? The same cast of charters has been doing this for 17 years - except allegedly with a few more credible additions. There were, I think, legitimate issues with the investigation, and it's all too easy to twist that into a dark conspiracy. As one who has studied it for years, I predict that no real proof of a missile or cover-up will result from this. But it will be interesting to watch and see.
    1
  3577. The internet is a huge fraud. It probably knows how many bathrooms your childhood house had.
    1
  3578. She asked two fricken questions. That's pushing it?
    1
  3579. What's coming from the US?
    1
  3580.  @dontspikemydrink9382  But not as much responsibility as the others.
    1
  3581. That's true, but the totality of what he did was justified. She was driving recklessly (if we believe him) and she refused to cooperate. Where's your common sense?
    1
  3582.  @ChrisTarr-e3m  Lots of people are guilty of exaggeration or embellishment. It doesn't prove the main story line is wrong. In most interactions, nobody's perfect. Both sides might embellish or lie. That doesn't determine which side is more in the right.
    1
  3583. The thing I learned about NTSB investigators is that they will not be silenced, witness Hank Hughes. They would all have come out like him if this were true.
    1
  3584. It's supposed to be redundant, but obviously that has had to compete with the profit motive. Even with all these lapses, air safety, even back then, had far more redundancy than say, Amtrak, car ferries, dive boats, helicopters and hot air balloons, and a host of other poorly regulated activities.
    1
  3585. Well if we go by due process and reasonable doubt, which I am sure you do not, then we have no robust evidence this was a premeditated murder. Or even an act of pure hate. The circus act that informs this case is driven by pure emotion. It's based on twisted thinking: that racism is a crime worse than death. The more sensible middle ground is to treat this as any other case of reckless endangerment resulting in death. That's more akin to manslaughter or 2nd degree murder. For which life sentences are rarely given. But since these men were on trial, not for their actual crimes, but for the entire history of white Southern racism and its hideous history of slavery and lynching, a fair trial could hardly have been expected.
    1
  3586. But it was still deplorable.
    1
  3587.  @DougieDonuts457  If that's true I stand corrected.
    1
  3588.  @TheLostStars  It speaks again to the fact the US was neither prepared for nor watching for an attack originating in domestic airspace.
    1
  3589. The truth is already out. The manic fringe suffer from mental illness. As Republican Denver Riggleman recently acknowledged, "[It] really speaks to where your intelligence level is... to believe in that type of operation,"
    1
  3590. They are right there.
    1
  3591. Where is the proof of that.
    1
  3592. Compared to most guests, and most atheists, he is far less falling for this trap.
    1
  3593.  StopCensorship4---2  "Jesus didn't care about your feelings." And he doesn't care about yours either.
    1
  3594.  @Tyler-ze4tg  It is plain as day to any unindoctrinated human that God, the biblical one at least, is a fiction. The question that you are asking is just one of countless questions disproving His alleged existence. For instance, if he knew in advance (due to his perfect knowledge of all things past present and future,) he would kill us off in a great flood, why did he create us in the first place? That also shows God does indeed make mistakes, which is strictly forbidden according to definition. One could make an endless list of these lapses and contradictions. Only an indoctrinated person could fail to see these gaping holes.
    1
  3595. BUT, flight 93 is the smoking gun that refutes 911 truth.
    1
  3596. No evidence for that.
    1
  3597.  @bargeman100  Keep up the good work, bot. !!!
    1
  3598. There was a plane on the ground: smashed up and mostly buried. Just like Ethiopian flight 302.
    1
  3599.  @brucejensen3700  M West also writes: "Uniqueness has long been put forward as evidence of a conspiracy, and nowhere more so than in the highly unique events of 9/11. What are the odds, they will ask, that three tall building could collapse from fire when this has never happened before? These arguments are specious, of course, as the events of 9/11 were unique from the outset. Never before had hijackers attempted to fly four planes into large structures. The outcome was bound to be unique, even spectacularly unique. But this mantra of "what are the odd" and "never happened before" became such an integral part of the 9/11 conspiracy mythology, that when it finally DID happen again they were forced to either incorporate this new occurrence into their mythology or discard a huge swath of "evidence." Thus after the 17-floor high Plasco building in Tehran caught fire and then collapsed, we were faced with the bizarre spectacle of 9/11 Truthers, particularly the supposedly sensible Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, insisting that this collapse of an office building in Iran was somehow a continuation on 9/11. They pointed to the same things they pointed to in the World Trade Center: the expulsions of dust, the rapid descent, the fires after the collapse, the color of the smoke, reports of bangs. They did this because these were all pieces of evidence they used 16 years earlier to insist that the World Trade Center collapse was a controlled demolition. So the 9/11 Truthers became Plasco Truthers."
    1
  3600. No, the plane that crashed started out with Turkish Airlines in December 1972. AA never owned or operated TC-JAV.
    1
  3601. It's obvious that the mail-ins were democratically heavy. Shouting with caps just reaffirms the methods of the moron. You couldn't cough up a proof even if there was one.
    1
  3602. Why would that be surprising? These men came for rape. What other kinds of men would have shown up? It was a message to perverts, and they responded.
    1
  3603.  @MFitz12  Exactly. Their arguments are self-refuting.
    1
  3604. I don't think the white race can be characterized in sweeping terms. Yes, part of the "white race" needs to grow up. Racism is a worldwide phenomenon, but I agree it speaks to human nature. Recent evidence suggests that people tend to view different races as if they were different species.
    1
  3605.  @RasheedGazzi  Not sure what you mean by that.
    1
  3606.  @RasheedGazzi  It's actually still there, but to find it you have to select "sort by newest first," then scroll down to comments from 2 weeks ago. It's YouTube's way of making life extra annoying for everyone.
    1
  3607. Youtube outbursts don't cut it. You need proof. Little minds don't care about proof. They just want violence.
    1
  3608. Absolutely. And Guliani helped NY City to be unprepared for 911. I do so hope he goes to jail.
    1
  3609. Didn't you hear? The government put them on there to make sure they would get caught.
    1
  3610. But she shouldn't go to jail.
    1
  3611. It's safer than not taking it.
    1
  3612.  @jrsergii1  Please google "Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 and 9/11's United Flight 93." This is Mick West's site. Flight 302, before excavations began, looked startlingly similar to F93 crater. It's more confirmation that under extreme speeds and angles a plane can indeed bury itself. Another similar case is Northwest flight 710 - the fuselage entirely disappeared under its crater. It was something veteran investigators had never seen before: "there were no bodies."
    1
  3613.  @Flashphotography15  What makes you think the reason she wanted to taze him was because he was a risk to traffic? Or is this not what you mean?
    1
  3614.  @undertow2142  Just as most pro-lifers don't give a da-n about fetuses. It's a massive fraud IMO.
    1
  3615.  @59bettybay  Indeed we now have corporate medicine. It's a fraud.
    1
  3616. "Pull it" doesn't mean controlled demolition. . .. . Next.
    1
  3617. t c: tend to agree with you, but then it could be argued with similar logic that we shouldn't have long jail sentences either, because no doubt, some innocent people have spent many years unjustly in prison.
    1
  3618.  @tc-zl5rs  BTW I'm not advocating banning long prison sentences. "allows possiblity of the innocent to seek justice" Understood, but misses my particular point, which is that the possibility of rectification doesn't change the fact that there is virtual certainty that SOME of the innocent convicts will not be able to realize this possibility. Therefore, for the X% who don't get a retrial, there is also an absolute lack of a second chance too. So to me, it's a question of degree. The more permanent the punishment, the more the wrongly accused case makes sense. But I don't think there is some absolute distinction that states that the only proper upper boundary on punishment is the death penalty. But Just being very abstract. In practice I'm with you.
    1
  3619. ​ StopCensorship4---2  OK, let me state it unambiguously. Ugandans rank themselves among the most miserable 20% of peoples. There you go. You can't argue with that. You always love to push the opposite of the truth. But I still want to give a big juicy kiss. Because you're a Big Guy.
    1
  3620.  StopCensorship4---2  Since you don't know which hormones could make me heterosexual, what makes you think an endocrinologist would know? More BS from the master of BS.
    1
  3621. He left out a few important ones: mass murder in the hundreds of thousands, sham elections where protesters are mowed down by the dozens, the normalization of torture.
    1
  3622.  @AbdelrahmanTheGreat  I'm sure you think so. Harrassing gays is more important than 54 innocent protesters shot dead in your country's last presidential election. Did you vote for him too?
    1
  3623.  @AbdelrahmanTheGreat  Well you said, "Oh nice." What was I supposed to think?
    1
  3624. Indeed, one could view the new law as a form o hate speech itself.
    1
  3625. There's no question no matter how you slice things MD wasthe primary cause of the crash. But it might be argued that MD had some justification for thinking the problem was solved after the Windsor fixes. In theory, the combination of the new lock pin settings and the support plate made it impossible for anyone to force the door shut. But two intervening factors may have been beyond the knowledge of MD management, without which the crash probably would not have happened. First, as is well known, two DC-10s were delivered without these modification. One of them was the Turkish crash plane. But less well known is the faulty maintenance done by Turkish airlines not more than a few moths before the crash. Someone adjusted the lock pins the wrong way, and extinguished warning lights for the cargo door. From that point on, the crash was almost certain. The door now offered such little resistance that "a sickly child" could have pushed the vent door shut. I can see how these two unforeseen factors created essentially a freak event. Could MD have believed that someone at the airline would do this unthinkable tinkering?
    1
  3626. Because their minds are made of mush?
    1
  3627. Might be tricky here as 1) it's not clear the management knew about the unmodified Turkish plane and 2) it might be argued that had it not been for the unforeseen tampering by Turkish Airlines maintenance a few months before the crash, those fixes would likely have worked.
    1
  3628. I'm trying to figure out who displayed worse judgement. 19-year-olds have notoriously poor judgement. But cops are supposed to know that high speed chases at night risk killing people. Is it worth the risk?
    1
  3629. No one saw a plane being shot down. Why do you make things up?
    1
  3630. They were Saudis. So much for the claim the US did this for control of Iraq.
    1
  3631. Well, Ethiopian flight 302 refutes you decisively.
    1
  3632. Finally, on the subject of my alleged lie, kindly tell me exactly where I misquoted or misrepresented Sanders' views. If you can't quote the alleged lie, that proves to the reader you don't defend the things you say. If that's the way you want to leave it, your choice. But I have a feeling you will want to throw in some more teenage insults before signing off with me. I which case, QED in advance again. cheers
    1
  3633. For a Snoopzilla.
    1
  3634. I agree except for one point. They did try to ask him questions but he decided not to talk to them.
    1
  3635.  @mdjb49  We've already discussed this over many post. What you failed to answer is, despite my pleading over and over, would they have shot Abery had he not turned and confronted them and simply continued jogging down the road?? Please answer.
    1
  3636.  @mdjb49  Thank you. But by saying "only they can answer," you are in effect admitting there is reasonable doubt as to their mindset the moment Travis pulled the trigger. Can we agree on that?
    1
  3637.  @mdjb49  OK, I will rethink your bank robbery analogy. That is perfectly reasonable. In the meantime, I do feel much more strongly that Roddie's punishment is a gross violation of the principle of proportional punishment. If there were no felony murder rule in Georgia, do you think he still deserves a life sentence? Here, the bank robbery analogy is not a good one because Roddie never had any advance plans to harm anyone. Now, you could argue he should have realized there was an elevate risk of Arbey being shot. I agree. But, and here's the key point for me. Unlike a bank robbery, he did not know the Ms were doing something illegal. Maybe he didn't know the citizen's arrest protocol. Maybe he didn't see the evidence of assault when Gregory yelled "stop or I'll blow your f-ing head off." It seems to be jumping the gun by saying Roddie is as dangerous as the other two.
    1
  3638.  @mdjb49  What is the worst case crime? Premeditated 1st degree murder. That presumably is what correlates with a life sentence. What Roddie did fell so far short of a "worst case" crime that it should make any fair-minded person cringe. Was there intent to kill? No way. Was there intent to harm? Yes and no. He behaved without due caution, but if we give him due process, we can say he may have thought he was helping to catch a criminal. Unwise, but a far cry from murder. Did he hear threats to kill? I'm not sure on that. Please provide evidence. Did he see Travis aim his gun at Arbery? He might well have. But by that time, backing away would have been useless. OK, that's my argument. Thank you for sharing yours. And one final comment if I might. Please do not assume I am just trying desperately to get these men off the hook. I realize they are racist scum. Has it ever occurred to you, after all this, that maybe I am trying my hardest to be a good person like you, that my intentions are as decent as yours? Sometimes I think people make assumptions because they can't put themselves in another person's shoes. And they then grab onto stereotypes. In this case, anyone who sways even a bit away from the "correct" position is to be lumped together with the racists alt-right crazies. I think you have tended to do that a bit. Thank you.
    1
  3639. Well Trump is a liar too, but he won.
    1
  3640. Trump: master of fake news: "the Haitians are eating our pets." Go for it.
    1
  3641. Well, was there a hard proof he raped her?
    1
  3642. Well then the message is clear. Can't you stick to one partner at a time?
    1
  3643.  @ronintsukebin9163  The official version is it weakened them, not melted them. How did you miss that? Let me guess. Sunday morning hangover.
    1
  3644.  @ronintsukebin9163  Oish, but I hope you're feeling better now.
    1
  3645.  @ronintsukebin9163  If there were a real god who stands in judgement of us, he would be humane in his punishment. Wrath and wickedness are not godly qualities, except for the fake god of the bible. You know, the one who never makes mistakes, but then decided to kill us off in a flood.
    1
  3646. And ironically, by profit as well. The airlines know that plane crashes are big media events, and if there are too many of them, no one will get on a plane. So they make planes safe enough not to scare would-be passengers too too much. For example, the industry cannot afford today to be as unsafe a the 1970s. If they were, the US would have about 10 major crashes a year. That compares to about zero today, excluding commuter flights.
    1
  3647. He's wrong though. Landslide generated tsunamis typically lose much of their height before they go very far, and the popular Canaries Tsunami claims used to scare the public has been seriously undermined by better scientific models. :)
    1
  3648. And so were the Saudi hijackers.
    1
  3649. That's easy: "Surveillance video from Washington Dulles International Airport the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, shows four of the five hijackers being pulled aside to undergo additional scrutiny after setting off metal detectors but then permitted to board the fateful flight that crashed into the Pentagon."
    1
  3650. Well I gave you one. But you won't acknowledge it, will you? The truthers can't do basic research I assume. and never admit to a mistake.
    1
  3651. "Are you a gov't pig? You're stupid" This discussion has ended unless you get rid of your bad manners.
    1
  3652. It landed in Cleveland.
    1
  3653. I admit I am not an expert on Sam Harris. Based only on this 3 hour marathon interview, I didn't hear anything definitively unfairly anti-Muslim, though his views are definitely up for grabs. Did you find any specific quote in this video that was in your eyes unfair?
    1
  3654. Thank you for your reply. But one thing he does not seem to do is to say most Muslims are indecent as a whole, which is a common charge against him. I just don't know either Islam or Harris well enough to say much more. If you have a fair and balanced critique of Harris, please link and I will read it. Thanks
    1
  3655. Mental illness absolutely. What does that say about his supporter?
    1
  3656. I wouldn't go quite that far. Yes, the fixes turned out to be inadequate. But there were other factors that were hard to foresee. 1) The false paper work for the door modifications for the Turkish plane and 2) The outrageous maintenance performed by Turkish Airline's maintenance just weeks before the crash, effectively undoing the existing safeguards. Had these two monkey wrenches not been operative, there probably would have been no crash. No excuses for MD by any means, but just a somewhat more complex picture.
    1
  3657. "couldn’t tell the difference between a gun and a taser." Even basic error can occur to anyone of us at any time. I remember my brain playing tricks on me, like the time it processed my red light for the other cars. There is no absolute immunity from this aspect of human nature. So I say, give her the benefit of the doubt and don't find her guilty. Otherwise we are saying being human is a punishable crime.
    1
  3658. Just curious. What would you do if you were gay?
    1
  3659. There's no real convincing evidence. More importantly, how does a government make up an absurd tale, complete with fake relatives and non-existent voice-morphing technology, with phone calls that all occurred just moments before the alleged shoot down? Most of these calls, in some cases taped, were revealed within hours of the crash. That makes this an absurd theory.
    1
  3660. genius comment of the day (I'm being serious)
    1
  3661. Your first name is well chosen.
    1
  3662. Because the streaks of light may not have been a missile, but an omnidirectional explosion where streamers of fuel blasted in all directions at the beginning of the main fireball. Note how different people reported different angles, such as pilot Fed Meyer, who saw a slightly descending streak, for example.
    1
  3663. It landed in Cleveland. Didn't you know?
    1
  3664. We don't know that's God's word.
    1
  3665. And likely never will be.
    1
  3666. AI doesn't exist, unless one thinks mathematics = intelligence. We may be algorithms, but we haven't a clue how they work in us. We still don't know what the architecture of intelligence is. The going theory posits that speed = consciousness. There's not even remotely a demonstration that the primary element of consciousness is calculations per second. So where do people get these ideas from?
    1
  3667. They know but don't care. Others employ twisted logic, such as having the right to force s-x on a women who came home with you from a fraternity party, but who refuse to call it rape.
    1
  3668. What about the zoo's negligence?
    1
  3669. Well, if you like politicians drowning in corruption, responsible for killing 54 opposition protesters and excusing the murderers, and endorsing death penalty legislation for non-violent gays, he's your hit man for sure.
    1
  3670. Would that it is. The truth is, Dr, Phil is just doing his job. Trying to help the mentally disturbed.
    1
  3671.  @Futurist1c111  The question makes no sense.
    1
  3672.  @ProfessorDaveExplains  Love to see the juicy details!
    1
  3673. Which power lines? Please provide evidence.
    1
  3674.  @robertstultz2260  Oh I see them now. My bad.
    1
  3675. No to Presidents who trash our servicemen. No to Presidents who refuse to condemn Putin the dissident killer. No to Presidents who look the other way when the Saudi Crown Prince murders journalists. No to the dark side of humanity.
    1
  3676. Why do people keep saying it was rigged, but can't cite anything even remotely supporting that?
    1
  3677. You're right, gravity does. As it does in every controlled demolition too. Ask any demolition expert.
    1
  3678.  @Matthew075  Where did you get the mistaken idea steel could not be weekend by the fire? Demolition experts do NOT agree. The truth mat's own favorite demo expert witness, Danny Jowenko, is on record agreeing that the twin towers did not require explosives. Explosions are to be expected: elevators crashed to the floor, lots of things can explode, as they have in other office fires. The term "pulled" is not a term associated with controlled demolition with explosives. You better go on and on because right now your score is zero. Do some more research.
    1
  3679.  @Matthew075  Well I have a different view of the facts. As to Danny Jowenko, if you consider him to be a reliable witness, then you should know he disagrees with you about the twin towers.
    1
  3680. Either way, the main take away is he's a massive liar, which was proven the day he spewed out a bunch of meaningless digits on a screen that no one could make sense of then or now. But then what does one expect of an alleged cyber expert with a paper bag over his head.
    1
  3681. They found only paper and insulation 8 miles away, carried by air currents. There was no data recorder found 3 miles away. There have been a lot of contradictory claims in the media, so perhaps that is one of them. I would do more careful fact checking.
    1
  3682. Mind reading should have no place in a fair discussion. Especially bad mind reading.
    1
  3683.  @christin418  I have an open mind. If you were to direct me to the best overall piece of evidence of a Trump victory, please do so.
    1
  3684.  @christin418  I am doing my own research but have failed to come up with the smoking gun. I am unaware of the proof that Trump won Arizona. But i will have a look. Thank you.
    1
  3685.  @christin418  I found this below quote appearing in the Austin American Statesman: ""Facebook posts: “The Arizona forensic audit found over 17,000 duplicates of votes.” PolitiFact rating: False . . . After five months, Florida-based firm Cyber Ninjas released results from its GOP-backed audit of ballots in Maricopa County, Ariz., and found no significant differences from the official vote count. Nevertheless, in a presentation before the Arizona State Senate, officials involved with the audit put forth a wide range of unproven allegations about the election." ----- So, based on the above, how do you know the allegations in that senate presentation are proof? Any senator can make any claim they want. We need a proof that their statements correspond to known facts. Is this a fair request?
    1
  3686.  @christin418  But that's just it. If there's no proof, you or I have no way of knowing if there IS a coup. Evidence comes before conclusion. Is that reasonable?
    1
  3687.  @christin418  Well that's why I asked you for your BEST piece of evidence, and you came back with some unproven talk by Arizona senators, when all the other eivdence of a Trump win in Arizona just isn't there.
    1
  3688.  @christin418  And just because Trump says it's true, doesn't make it true. "huge amount of forensic evidence." So far, you haven't demonstrated that evidence.
    1
  3689. I would argue it was cruel all along. To bring a child into a world of massive suffering, childhood sexual abuse, rape, sink or swim, guaranteed death, etc. What are people thinking? It's s if people are in love with suffering. Of course I exaggerate a bit. But the point is, let's stop pretending the world is such a wonderful place.
    1
  3690.  @thedamnkbob4044  Well that was certainly profound.
    1
  3691.  @POH341  It's not harming you. So why not concentrate on poverty and child sacrifice and don't waste your precious time on this earth obsessing over gays.
    1
  3692.  @POH341  I don't think you will have much luck proving that gays are greedier than the rest of us.
    1
  3693.  @POH341  Heterosexuals cause riots all the time. So do whites. So do blacks. You can't blame an entire class of people on the basis of selected incidences. No offense, and correct me if wrong, but you give off the impression of someone who is underage. Am I right?
    1
  3694. The real smoking gun is the very absence of cohesion in the official truther claims. Since when was it necessary to collapse 3 skyscrapers in order to invade Iraq? It's absurd on then face of it. Before any of them fell, every American already knew we were under attack and at war, and the retaliation would be huge. So controlled demolition would be self-evident absurdity. And then we have flight 93, an after thought even more self-evidently preposterous than the collapses,. . . . .and on down the list of preposterous theories, which often have an appeal to less rigorous minds.
    1
  3695. ​ @Snookbite24  The NTSB is tasked with "probable cause," not absolute proof. I agree with their verdict. A missile would’ve collapsed one side on impact and expanded outward for the rest of the tank. " Not if a close proximity detonation. The China Lake study, part of the official investigation, could not rule this out absolutely. Maybe you could, but they didn't. As to Navy missile tests, last year a Boston judge refused to dismiss a suit brought by family members, based on new FOIA requests documents received by Tom Stalcup. Here is the judge's response: “This evidence reveals that the United States and its agencies, acting in concert with Contractor Defendants, conducted initial operational tests of the SPY-ID(V) radar upgrade with testing that involved firing at least one missile with a live warhead in May of 1996…,” Kelley wrote. “Instead of conducting testing away from potential flight paths of other aircrafts, SPY-ID(V) was tested on an expedited basis in and around a land-based testing site called the Combat Systems Engineering and Development Site (‘CSEDS’) in New Jersey, which is a highly congested area.” Given all of this, my position is well within the bounds of sensible judgement. cheers
    1
  3696. Yes, it's Kenya where black magic Witchcraft and dirt eating still thrive. What's healthier, eating dirt or gay rights?
    1
  3697. If anything he went too far. He's supposed to be a judge, not a mind reader.
    1
  3698. For the unenlightened perhaps.
    1
  3699. @Mars It's not depraved. And by definition it's only a choice for bisexuals.
    1
  3700. Thank you Mr. Bot.
    1
  3701. Broken record, get a life.
    1
  3702. Which people? The killer, the defendants?
    1
  3703. He already was. They kicked him out earlier this year.
    1
  3704. At 1:08 , is that really Manhattan?
    1
  3705. Garbage
    1
  3706. NebulousCat4 = victim of conman. You fell for the bait, and now as each new lawsuit crumbles before our very eyes, only the most gullible still cling to the Master's fantasy, unable to think for themselves. Unable to cough up the proof.
    1
  3707.  @stopcensorship7705  There you are again spreading disinformation. There's also no lefty gene, but that hardly proves lefthandedness is chosen. You need a crash course on genetics.
    1
  3708. Yes, it's like, if you choose to be fat, then you will be disqualified.
    1
  3709. Whatever you do, don't become a political protester. You might end up in a body bag.
    1
  3710. What are you talking about? Cleveland is west of Newark.
    1
  3711.  @tankeater  I think the answer is, airplanes frequently deviate somewhat from a straight line route due to traffic and wind. On my trusty high school globe, a great circle route would take you pretty much right over Cleveland. Also, flat map projections can be deceptive. If you go to Google maps and use the "measure distance" tool, you will see the direct line route is right over Cleveland.
    1
  3712.  @TipeONegatyve  We really don't know that's what happened,
    1
  3713.  @eemage9476  I don't think he'll get life. Probably 10 years for manslaughter. We've swung from one extreme to the other. The truth may be in the middle somewhere.
    1
  3714.  @eemage9476  Agree, totally irresponsible. But the question is, murder or manslaughter?
    1
  3715.  @eemage9476  Or murder 3rd degree.
    1
  3716.  @eemage9476  But we agree on the basics. :)
    1
  3717.  @nustada  "The truth is the left use racism to excuse their criminality." I would say it's more that the assumption is when white kills black it's automatically racism. In any one case you can't be sure.
    1
  3718. There's no proof a zygote has the same moral standing as you and me.
    1
  3719. For what purpose?
    1
  3720.  @jegamespeed5399  Thank you. Why is it harmful to have a union with someone you love? Is it OK if heterosexuals form a union on that basis?
    1
  3721.  @jegamespeed5399  "significant harm." No, just leaving gays alone to do what they want in the bedroom does not promote normalization or lies. You have cited no evidence.
    1
  3722. It's possible, but no evidence of any substance.
    1
  3723. @Yeah Yeah Well said. People should be free to dislike. But dislike is no excuse for violence.
    1
  3724.  @khalidhassan9423  Nor does he have the minimum snoop quotient to pass the bedroom management exam.
    1
  3725. @Howard Finkel Oh that's way too generous. How about: I have no critical thinking skills, do not speak without official authorization from the Department of 911 Truth, and know nothing about high speed plane crashes.
    1
  3726. Ridiculously easy solution: trans folk should use the bathroom of the sex they most resemble. Problem solved without having a trans debate.
    1
  3727. No, it was found there, and there's no proof it wasn't.
    1
  3728.  @wellifthemediasaysit  "theres no proof it wasnt' even mean?" If you're claim is that no one found the passport, you have to back that up with evidence. What is it? Why is your claim more credible?
    1
  3729.  @waldopepper4069  Well, but he didn't ignore all the warnings. When Meurs reminded him they had not received the clearance, he acknowledged it and waited. So clearly did NOT ignore that warning. If you are also referring to the questioning by the FE, I submit this was normal operating procedure back then. Having heard "OK" from the tower, no doubt that was confirmation of the take off clearance to both him and Meurs. Please note that BOTH Van Zanten and Meurs responded to the FE simultaneously with "Yes, he's cleared." So, was Meurs arrogant too? This was well before the age of CRM, and rather than arrogance, it might well have been the assumption the FE was simply out of the loop. Finally, I acknowledge all of my points are speculative, as we are in the business of mind reading when it comes to VZ's state of mind. Can you acknowledge the same? But if you don't, that's fine. I have made my case as best I can and don't demand that everyone agree with me. cheers
    1
  3730.  @c.augustedupin2559  It's some sort of blend of metals that when sufficiently heated can become an incendiary, but not explosive per say. That's been my understanding.
    1
  3731.  @c.augustedupin2559  Why are you asking me?
    1
  3732.  @c.augustedupin2559  "oh I thought you were an expert" Did I say I was?
    1
  3733.  @c.augustedupin2559  Go for it. Show me my know it all comments. You are exhibiting poor internet manners to exaggerate my knowledge of some aspects of thermite claims into an expert. It shows you are a bad sport, plain and simple. If you wanted to be serious and courteous, you would have left out the snide comments, and answered my question directly. I have no idea if thermite is used to cut steel. Do you have an example of it cutting steel?
    1
  3734.  @c.augustedupin2559  Me truther? That's news to me. Like I said you have bad manners and poor sportsmanship. Me ranting? You're one of those people who love to invent enemies out of whole cloth. You still haven't answered my question. Maybe you don't know the answer yourself? Go for it Big Guy. Keep on your insult streak. That's your forte. Keep pretending I was ranting.
    1
  3735.  @c.augustedupin2559  You are exactly what MoonEyes states. Trolling for trouble. Loving to provoke people. Your goal is to humiliate rather than to converse. How sad that is.
    1
  3736.  @jasonhickerson2235  I already gave you the link in two forms. The link itself, and the key words to put into Google. Go back and look!!
    1
  3737.  @jasonhickerson2235  Just wondering what kind of person wastes their time insulting anonymous people on Youtube. Get a life.
    1
  3738.  @jasonhickerson2235  Well, the whole insultfest began when you said I needed to get my money back. I have stopped engaging in the insults. You and Duped are drawn to it like kids fighting in a sandbox. Maybe you should both start an insult club where you can call people liars day in and out. I hope you enjoy the debate, and please don't pretend I didn't give you the key words to bring it up.
    1
  3739. All that's missing is the proof.
    1
  3740.  @johnpeters9961  That heaven exists, that gays will not enter into heaven, the words of the bible. There's no independent proof of any of these things. It's pure belief and faith, which is a very different matter.
    1
  3741.  @johnpeters9961  That's fine with me. But without an accompanying proof, you're basically talking only to fellow believers.
    1
  3742.  @Maksie0  Absolutely. The God of the bible is a monster on many levels. Evil is his stock-in-trade. He invented it after all.
    1
  3743. Who is she?
    1
  3744.  Jeremo Brown  You still don't get it. You aren't allowed to make a citizen's arrest by pointing a gun at someone. That's pure unadulterated assault with a lethal weapon. By your standard, any mugger or killer could just say he was making a citizen's arrest and get away with murder. Go for it.
    1
  3745. He did receive the proper training and closed the door properly. However, he did no doubt feel very badly after MD blamed the crash on him.
    1
  3746.  @StrawberryFieldsNIR  He was not supposed to be trained to look through the peep hole. That responsibility varied by airline. In this case, it was the airline's ground engineer who was tasked with this job. There is nothing abnormal in this. Of course that does not excuse MD's primary responsibility. Or Turkish Airline's brazen tampering with the lock mechanism and warning system just weeks before the crash.
    1
  3747. No, wrong. You didn't do your research. You also have to explain flight 93 was even needed. Good luck trying to come up with a credible answer. It only makes sense as a foiled terrorist attack.
    1
  3748.  sergemarcotte4597  Either way, flight 93 has virtually no relevance to the big picture. Are you of the belief that without flight 93, the "war on terror" would have been impossible?
    1
  3749.  sergemarcotte4597  "The original comment was not about war on terror but about flight 93." Rather than quibble over the appropriate guidelines for the strict adherence to the subject of an original post, let's do something more interesting: Do you have a logical, cogent and sensible theory why an alleged Grand Conspiracy (let us not quibble over the terminology) by the US government, allegedly to justify a "War on Terror" and the invasion of Iraq (among other things) would even need to incorporate flight 93? That question needs to be answered before one can have a sensible discussion of the evidence.
    1
  3750.  sergemarcotte4597  "You don't have an argument about anything concerning what happened that day." Yikes. Do truthers just love to lie by nature? I have made many points both here and in past threads about flight 93. I've talked about the big picture, as I did in my question to you. You damn and dismiss it. I have discussed the wreckage question, the parallels w flight 302, the cell phone lies that the truth mvt keeps spreading. By contrast you have discussed nothing as far as I have seen. If you'll kindly note, I never personally insulted anyone despite what you said. You cast the first stone above. That shows who is really serious. You want to focus on your feelings. I am sure you are a fine individual, but my main focus is the facts. cheers
    1
  3751.  sergemarcotte4597  Your passive aggressive comments do add a touch of spice to the conversation.
    1
  3752.  r.a.i.s.e.realizeamericais835  Not meant as an insult. BTW I find it continually frustrating that no one does their homework before they say "cell phones impossible" or "no wreckage," and "pilot consensus." Whether there was a massive false flag, OK I can't say 100% for sure. But I see the invasion of these comments taking over whole discussions not even related to 911. It's like constant spam, and it's like super annoying. cheers
    1
  3753. Well maybe you should recommend that too for the victim. She stated that Turner "doesn’t need to be behind bars." Is she too in favor of white male privilege?
    1
  3754. No way. You must be thinking of something else.
    1
  3755. Kind of outrageous sentence I think.
    1
  3756.  @kid.turtle  And what you think doesn't matter either. The world does what it does.
    1
  3757. AND Turkish Airlines as well. It was they that put in the final deadly input a few weeks before the crash.
    1
  3758.  @francoisvorster3914  Both are true. The airline was also negligent, though not to the same degree to be sure. The airline's maintenance department, it seems, did the unthinkable: they turned the locking pin in the WRONG direction, making the plane even more dangerous than it was before Windsor.
    1
  3759. Another traitor to your country who has no moral sense.
    1
  3760. It was not shot down. There is next to no evidence it was shot down.
    1
  3761. And your attention away from those obsessed with homosexuals. They must really love it down deep. Their fascination is relentless.
    1
  3762. I guarantee you one thing, if humans were asexual, and a few deviants were born who practiced heterosexual sex, we would never hear the end of it. "Disgusting, putting your thingy into a urine fountain, . . . .omg the Golden Shower, filthy!!! " Not to mention the 45% of young straight men who have had bum sex. Shows how we are conditioned. If you had strong gay attraction, what would you do about it?
    1
  3763. Based on what????????????????????????????????
    1
  3764. That may well be true as a whole. But women tend to empathize more with everyone, not just victims. So not necessarily the case they would only be compassionate towards the victim and his family. That's just my own speculation. But I have seen TV shows in the past where women jurists were in favor of less severe penalties towards a serial rapist. It actually shocked me.
    1
  3765. Hmm, I don't know about transitional phase. If there was such a major phase it would have been the transition from the props to the jet age. That's when the biggest increase in safety took place. The recent Max crashes are a virtually replay of the DC-10. Same company. Same profit over safety,
    1
  3766.  @wiredforstereo  Well today of course the safety level is phenomenal. Imagine if the entire 1960s and 70s had but single fatality. That has been the record on US mainline operations since 2001. That said, by the 1970s the record was already amazing. In the US the chances of dying on a commercial airliner was estimated at about one chance in 4 million per flight. The Third World lagged behind, of course. The reasons are probably many why things have gotten so safe.
    1
  3767.  @wiredforstereo  "why we can't lay down" Would this be practical on say an A-320? I don't see much more room available unless they got rid of overhead bins. Do you have some ideas?
    1
  3768. @phillipclearman859 I don't know for sure, and some have said it was the other way around. But according to a CNN article, GBI Assistant Special Agent in Charge Richard Dial stated: "...Mr. Arbery kept jumping out of the way and moving around the bumper and actually running down into the ditch in an attempt to avoid his truck. . . . At one point, Arbery was heading out of the Satilla Shores neighborhood where the defendants live, but the McMichaels forced him to turn back into the neighborhood and run past Bryan, the agent said. That is when he struck Arbery." If that has been refuted, then kindly fill me in.
    1
  3769. @phillipclearman859 With his truck. The article is referenced in the wiki entry.
    1
  3770. That's so BS. It was already proved she was following a TV script based on the exact same theme - a girl wanting her BF dead so she could get all the attention. This is old news.
    1
  3771.  @senoraantero2836  She was on trial for manslaughter, not her personality.
    1
  3772.  @justaperson2653  Check your spelling.
    1
  3773. I'm sorry, that was meant for Stop Censorship.
    1
  3774. And Trump is not obsessed with power? This is clearly a short-sighted statement.
    1
  3775. "if I could ban them from this thread I would" You would ban anyone who doesn't share your foul mouth and bad manners. Just like government censors, if you were in power, there would be no such thing as dissenting views, freedom, or a fair trail. Just a lot of brutality and chaos and false accusations. Just like any oppressive regime, zero tolerance for the slightest act of disobedience.
    1
  3776. Spot on. The US today is one gigantic algorithm. I call it invasion of the body snatchers. AI is a myth. It's actually people who are in effect AI. The level of stupidity and conformism is at an all time high. Not to mention an all time high of people who have nothing but contempt for others. Witness Trump. I don't know the explanation, but we have before us the true fruition of the worst of the corporate capitalist system. Today's corporate medicine seeks to kill you. It will only prescribe a band-aid unless you are on death's doorstep. How we got to this sad state I don't know.
    1
  3777. But not common sense to call this malice murder. It was more akin to manslaughter.
    1
  3778. Leviticus: execute a child who curses. Go for it.
    1
  3779. They do it to everyone for the most hard to fathom reasons. Not just alleged cultist conspiracy crackpots (no offense) but for even the most innocent website names that are posted.
    1
  3780. Not if you've seen the counter evidence.
    1
  3781.  @kjs257incpen3  You're all wrong. The truth is, no one knows for sure how the last 90 seconds or so played out.
    1
  3782. Finally some common sense !! Why does it take so long to find some actual intelligence on Youtube. Is the human race really that stupid?
    1
  3783. OMG not this again (39:45) Since ellipses (and other forms of punctuation) are not original to anyone, they cannot be plagiarized in any substantive sense. It is no wonder Finkelstein and Mohammed Jihab share the same uncontained rage that marks them off indeed from the average.
    1
  3784. We all knew we were at war with terrorists by 9:03am that morning. Thus the collapses were unnecessary.
    1
  3785. War crimes for sure. But God, knowing all things past present and future, knew beforehand the blue prints for his world contained 911. But he signed off on them anyway. Is that peace?
    1
  3786.  @kdwaynec  That would be the last thing he would be thinking. He had no time for that. It was an instinctive reflex. As Mentour Pilot says, the refueling decision was completely justified and operationally sound. I don't know why people keep harping on this. No report criticizes their decision. This is a Youtube poster phenomenon only.
    1
  3787. I agree with you. But the facts by themselves, at least in my opinion to date, do not prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that GZ did not act purely in self-defense when he shot TM. Thus, didn't the jury do the right thing? They believed he was probably guilty, but didn't have a solid proof. They didn't want to take the risk of putting a potentially innocent man in jail. Isn't this how the justice system is supposed to work? Remember, they didn't say he absolutely was innocent. cheers
    1
  3788. He's wrong.
    1
  3789.  Raptor Jet  Hi, Do you believe there are decent whites in the US?
    1
  3790.  @phaque3115  His mother told the media her son suffered frommental illness. Perhaps that affected his judgement.
    1
  3791.  @FCLaney  When all is said and done though, these men were given sentences way out of proportion to their bad deeds. The operative theme here seems to be that racism is far worse than any other crime on the books. And that is a perversion of justice.
    1
  3792.  @FCLaney  Excuse me, you're totally uninformed. His mental illness was commented on by his various relatives. It's all over the google search results, which I presume you can find. Contrary to what most have stated, if anything this fact is to Arbery's defense. It demonstrates why a would be aggressor (Travis McMichael) has no right to make assumptions about the mental state of those he assaults. If you take a risk and assume someone will act "rationally," that's Travis' fault, not Arbery's.
    1
  3793.  @scratchnoff7609  A lot of defenders of the Ms seem to have a blind spot. By Travis' own admission, and the FBI enhanced video, we know that Travis pointed a loaded gun at Arbery when still well behind the truck. This is indefensible. If Travis felt threatened, he has himself to blame. To say Arbery was a threat is to say jogging is a threat. That's the problem with brandonski. People like this cannot process information the way sensible people do.
    1
  3794. That makes no sense.
    1
  3795.  @frankobarressi7919  I see what you're saying but it's wrong in this case, because the door did not actually "open." It was simply ripped off as a result of the pressure buildup. It was more akin to a bomb explosion. Thus there would not have been any door left to keep closed. But more importantly, even if the door had remained attached, it would not have mattered. The damage was already done. Just as if a bomb had made a hole in the fuselage. This event was far more violent than a door merely "opening."
    1
  3796.  @Gally80  Plane parts were found. Don't you believe in doing research before you speak?
    1
  3797.  @Gally80  Has it occurred to you the reason you have fallen for trutherism is you are inept at doing basic research? The wreckage pictures, including pics of the black boxes, the quote from the county coroner on body fragments, the contents of the FDR which was published and has been online for decades - it's all there if you lift a finger rather than have others do your research for you. cheers
    1
  3798. Governments are indeed liars. Look at the Trump government. But then, so are brainless CTists witness the birthers, Mike Lindell , and the 91-- truth movement. Of course 45 is a walking CT in and of himself.
    1
  3799. Whether you like gays or not, what has to be canceled is violence, and in that department Uganda and the US for that matter surpasses gays on a massive scale.
    1
  3800.  @stopcensorship7705  I see this is your home, the perfect platform to feel good about hate.
    1
  3801. Very bad job. He's supposed to be a judge, not a mind reader.
    1
  3802. I don't think we can begrudge a mom still in mourning. But wouldn't it be refreshing if just a single parent of such a victim might once say, "I am sorry my son partly contributed to this situation" before talking about injustice.
    1
  3803.  @cajunrandy2143  Injustice is not limited to the courtroom.
    1
  3804.  @StopCensorship4--03  What a wonderful proof how so many grown adults (or am I wrong) could waste so much of their lives on a forum for dummies.
    1
  3805.  EpicSigmaBoy55555  When these people become elderly, they will regret the utter waste of there lives they spent on here.
    1
  3806.  @highmaxedoutlife6285  Agreed. But a case can be made that the law here is inadequate, and her actions did not constitute manslaughter.
    1
  3807. Were ya been mate? This whole thread is saturated with blame for the killing.
    1
  3808. Well apparently not too difficult as the entire fleet underwent mandatory floor strengthening after the crash, at least in the US.
    1
  3809.  R Do  Do you have a proof that if Arbery had been white, they wouldn't have chased him? If so, let's hear it.
    1
  3810. It might well be a hate crime. But there's no proof hate was the primary motive. You need proof in a court of law.
    1
  3811.  @rotuman78  No I don't know that. That they they are racists is hard to deny, especially in the case of Bryan. Its said they found tons of racist comments on his phone. But here's the thing. For any crime which carries a significant jail sentence, it's only fair, and based on the US justice system of due process, you have to be sure beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't see that here. The assumption you appear to be making is that when a white racist pursues a black man, only racism can be the motive. How can you know that for an absolute fact? This reasoning is lame. Yes, it's a perfectly legit theory. But we don't convict on the basis of a theory. You have to prove it with facts. I see only limited evidence to prove racism was the motive. Racism does not always mean hate crime. That's basic common sense, which has been discarded by many in this case. Emotion is driving this case. Balanced objective respect for due process has taken a back seat.
    1
  3812. I know the feeling all to well. But we must always be judged by what we are, not by what others are.
    1
  3813. good one!
    1
  3814. Which proves the nonsense of the "immediate intercept" theory.
    1
  3815. Which is more than the republican party can say.
    1
  3816.  @sonofhibbs4425  Speaking of which, did you know that on 9/11 2002, the New York state winning lottery number was - you guessed it. 911
    1
  3817. @StopCensorship4--03 It is to be expected that a person with such low intellectual standards would also fail so badly in the humor department.
    1
  3818. But in a certain sense though, language is determined by accepted usage, not by someone creating a new word from scratch and forcing it on you. Would you agree?
    1
  3819.  @christiebestvater683  Agreed.
    1
  3820. Men and women each have their unique dark sides. Lying, I believe, is actually more on the female side.
    1
  3821.  @theartistformerlyknownasth8612  To me Arbery's mental illness may have some limited relevance that's to his favor. If you make the assumption the person you are chasing is normal in every respect, you are stereotyping him and assuming he will only behave the way you expect. If that fails to happen, it's your fault (The McMichaels) for assuming he didn't conform to your stereotype. This may or may not be applicable here, but it's conceivable Arbery's decision involved questionable judgement because of his illness. I put this forth in very speculative terms only.
    1
  3822.  @theartistformerlyknownasth8612  I have serious misgivings about the length of these sentences. Especially in the case of William Bryan. To me this is one of the clearest indictments of the felony murder rule. It turns basic principles of justice on their head.
    1
  3823.  @theartistformerlyknownasth8612  "most states are not pushing to get rid of it" I didn't say most states, I said more states, implying an ongoing trend. "The felony murder doctrine is one of the most widely criticized features of American criminal law. Legal scholars almost unanimously condemn it as irrational, concluding that it imposes punishment without fault and presumes guilt without proof. Despite this, the law persists in almost every U.S. jurisdiction." -review of the the book Felony Murder by Guyora Binder ----- The US is the only country in the world that still holds onto Felony Murder, with the exception of much watered- down versions in Canada and Australia. "Even in the United States, there are vast differences in the Felony Murder Laws. Currently in the United States, reforms and abolishment have happened or are happening. Ohio, Hawaii, Kentucky, Michigan, and Massachusetts no longer apply the felony murder rule. (Abolished) Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, and Washington limit the felony murder rule to the actual perpetrators of the homicide. There are many states currently in the process of changing their felony murder laws, including Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Colorado, and Minnesota. The most recent reform is California’s SB 1437. In September 2019, ..." - Restore Justice website
    1
  3824.  @theartistformerlyknownasth8612  "Bryan chose to chase down and block in a guy with other guys who had guns" Yes, but you are trying your hardest to push this man as far as you can into the category of a worst case criminal. He isn't, period. Our justice system is supposed to do the opposite. When there are extenuating circumstances, we are supposed to resolve those to the benefit of the accused. I suspect that deep down hatred and disgust, not the principles of due process, are guiding your thinking. "he has gotten what he deserved." In your opinion he did, but not all sensible people agree. That said, IMO, his should be a case where we can each respect the other's opinion. There's a case for each. I hope you are not so one-sided you can't acknowledge that both views are in the realm of a reasonable discussion, as opposed to the alt-right/racist pigs who insist the Ms were some sort of heroes.
    1
  3825. So would you be happy in there for life?
    1
  3826.  @autobestllc1812  I totally get it. One level that can be seen as an outrage. A violation of the Golden Rule. But fair minded and sensible people are split on whether the DP is a good policy. There are other issues to consider.
    1
  3827. You win today's prize for truther impersonation!
    1
  3828. If a real biblical God existed, Colgan Air would not have crashed.
    1
  3829. I thought the middle finger is longer than the 2nd finger in practically everyone.
    1
  3830.  @johnstedman4075  Hello again. "Prodromal Stage." It certainly could. Like the crash of AA at St. Thomas, due to later research, we now know that a sudden temporary loss of hearing can affect one's perception of visual depth.
    1
  3831. I don't either. But the zoo itself is the primary cause here: if a child found a way to open an emergency door inflight, the NTSB would rightly blame the airline, not the child. That's the absurdity of so many comments above. Common sense has been amputated in this age of the absurd.
    1
  3832. But is anywhere a safe place? It must be remembered that even factoring the 737Max, today's skies are far safer than ever before - by orders of magnitude. Did you know that looking at all US operated jet airliners, there has been only ONE death (Southwest Airlines a few years ago) since 2001? Even though airliners are arguably riskier than some other places, it's Important to not base beliefs too much on out-of-date data.
    1
  3833.  @rnies6849  I think it's a question of degree though. Did Boeing ruthlessly decide it could "afford" x number of Max crashes? Doubtful IMO. Think about it. if they could have foreseen the grounding, they would have done much more to make the plane safer. Don't get me wrong, there's is a cost-cutting culture that is, as you say, disgusting. But i think a lot of this was corporate denial. Ay the corporate level I believe they convinced themselves the plane was actually safe. Remarkably similar to the corporate denial with the DC-10, in the sense that again, if Douglas was not in denial, they might have better foreseen the possibility of the Paris crash, and surely they would have done more if they were thinking in reality terms, even if just out of their own self-interest. So disgusting yes, but not worst case where corporations are quite accepting of effectively incorporating the killing of people into their strategy. Just my 2 cents.
    1
  3834.  @MentourPilot  Hello, as usual the best of all the Youtube docusasters! THANK YOU for leaving out the huge ego and arrogance of Van Zanten as the cause of the crash that's constantly rehashed by Youtube commenters. Da--n sick of that. Curious, I have been looking for years for the part of the conversation that preceded that published in the official report. But I have never found any link. Do you know of a link where I can read the entire transcript that you had access to? Thanks. Chris
    1
  3835.  @warningflashflood4485  A lot depends on one's internal state or situation. A person who suffers from depression will tend to see the negative and ignore the positive. A person who does not suffer from depression may not see things so bleakly. Who is right, and how can it be proven?
    1
  3836. What should it say?
    1
  3837. It's a good use of resources. Unlike a bullet, it ensures he spends a lifetime of experiencing punishment.
    1
  3838. Well he really picked a child. Bad choice.
    1
  3839. Well you thought wrong.
    1
  3840. It may be. But these men were, I thought, lured in by chat groups that are not specific to a single small town.
    1
  3841. And sometimes we do so unknowingly.
    1
  3842. No, that's an unacceptable answer! We must all express rage at the mom because that is the purpose of Youtube. To always villainize our fellow humans as often and as irrationally as possible.
    1
  3843.  @stopcensorship7705  Gay could be hormonal. You have no proof it isn't, as usual.
    1
  3844.  @stopcensorship7705  "there is still no proof of immutability with hormones," Whether mutable or immutable, hormones could still be the cause of being gay. Nice try.
    1
  3845. And without you. You can't keep from blabbing post after post. No self-control, just like your master.
    1
  3846. Oh really? And what did the government gain from flight 93? Was it some extra dead grass? Or did they need some heroes? Do tell us how that worked. I challenge you to think critically.
    1
  3847.  @Ricky-k1g  OK, since I asked you first, tell us why the government needed flight 93.
    1
  3848.  @Ricky-k1g  I've given you 48 hours and you can't even answer my first question. I rest my case.
    1
  3849.  @Ricky-k1g  I'm asking you to answer a simple question. You simply cannot do it. You fail the very first question. That says to the reader, you know nothing bout flight 93. Is this your way of having an intelligent conversation?
    1
  3850. Now I've given you a month. And you STILL can't answer even one question. This is why the truth mvt has no credibility. The posters are their own worst enemies. They prove themselves incompetent with each post and non-post.
    1
  3851.  @Ricky-k1g  Well let's test who knows more about flight 93, if you're up for it that is. I already asked you a big question and you didn't even attempt to answer it. Now I am giving you a chance to ask me a question and have an actual conversation.
    1
  3852.  @Ricky-k1g  You just made all that stuff up. Given the rest of your unsupported fantasy, that would make sense. I completely trust the news? You just pulled that out of a hat. If I really always trusted the news, I would believe that flight 93 landed in Cleveland. So you just contradicted yourself. I don't care if your mind is changed, I am only interested in seeing your evidence. But like all the others, you fail to deliver while pretending you know how I think.
    1
  3853. Maybe not certifiably sick, but deplorable, as Cathy Young states in her most balanced articles. The relationship was devastating to Mia. That alone makes it deplorable.
    1
  3854.  @gregpoore2757  What Mia may or may not have done to Dylan is irrelevant to whether the Woody- Soon-Yi relationship is appropriate or worse. I realize people are human, but in his new book Woody states he sees no moral dilemmas with with this. And that says to me rather unequivocally Woody has some basic problems with moral boundaries. Even Moses stated what his father did was wrong. It caused exreme pain to Mia and roiled up the whole family. I can forgive him because we are all human; but it doesn't make what he did OK. Just my thoughts. As to Mia, I am perfectly aware of the many allegations against her and have no doubt they could well be true. So not saying she's necessarily any better.
    1
  3855.  @gregpoore2757  I get you! And I agree sometimes people should just let go of others' mistakes. It's been 28 years for goodness sake. So I agree with you.
    1
  3856. Like mowing down 54 peaceful protesters. Go for it.
    1
  3857. One reason we will never know if AI achieves consciousness is that many humans themselves would fail the test. A sense of humor? Many people with autism don't have any. Intelligence? AI is already much more clever than many humans.
    1
  3858. How does crashing a 757 into an empty field in the middle of nowhere benefit the government?
    1
  3859.  @tforever2475  You aren't thinking big picture. There is no reason to crash a plane in the middle of nowhere. Forget narrative, there's mounds of evidence. Zero evidence of fake crash. That shows your narrative is pulled from thin air.
    1
  3860. People have said that, but the reality is it wasn't the responsibility of the airport ground crew. Even if the baggage handler could read English, there was no indication that the peep hole was related to safety.
    1
  3861. With such limited info it's fair to not draw a final conclusion yet. I'm all in favor of due process, but this smells bad.
    1
  3862. As opposed to the DC-10, where the engines look like they could rip off at any moment.
    1
  3863.  @jahbern  Indeed it is strange story. Another eerie coincidence is that the 737 Max death toll is 346, exactly that of Flight 981. What are the odds?
    1
  3864. You've been totally refuted. Always nice to have the last word. 🙂
    1
  3865.  @Cookie-hg4xb  I know it's for adults. So why are you participating? I stumped you completely, and you don't like it, hence your bowing out of discussion. Only 3rd graders would propose that a plot to invade Iraq involves blowing up a hole IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE. The stupidity speaks for itself.
    1
  3866. Why would anyone care what some corrupt tinpot dictator says about gays? President-for-life Museveni is Uganda's biggest mass murderer in history where torture is the norm, and as in the last election, protestors are mowed down by the dozens. Yes, he speaks his mind, which is the mind of a depraved killer.
    1
  3867.  Doctor Jr.  No, the people in the West have learned to target real threats, not what folks do in the bedroom. That's another example of moral progress.
    1
  3868.  @stopcensorship7705  I have no problem with your dislike of gays. I get it. But why do you, along with all these others, choose your platform at a forum celebrating the opinion of the biggest thug in Uganda's history? Can't you find a more decent anti-gay fellow to quote from? Says a lot about your moral values to not even mention Museveni's hideous murderous conduct. Is there no moral boundary for finding anti-gay opinion? You'd probably praise Hitler, because his disgust of gays probably means more to you than 10 million deaths.
    1
  3869.  @stopcensorship7705  I don't care who's better. A butcher's a butcher.
    1
  3870.  @stopcensorship7705  Oh dear Mr. Censorship, You've undoubtedly heard of the conversion therapy ministries where so many gay folks have gone for help. Could you tell us, if gay is a choice, why the need for the therapy?
    1
  3871.  @stopcensorship7705  And why has this therapy failed so badly?
    1
  3872. Please provide link to Eli being a predator.
    1
  3873. No to mental illness.
    1
  3874. You make some good points, but I think the racism theme is quite speculative. If you would allow me some additional questioning: "Not to mention Americans and Dutch (among a few other nationalities) find it ostensibly 'difficult' to understand 'accents' (largely brown and black accents)" But in this case the controllers were Spanish, ostensibly not "brown or black accents." So why mention it? "Completely ignoring the fact that this airport is handling air traffic at a much larger scale than ever," Who ignored this fact? "And the Panam also shares a bit of blame in 'li[s]tening' to the clearance rather than focusing on the exit." If in fact this bit of speculation is accurate. but as the official report stated, all this is "not very relevant," given that ATC was aware at all times Pan Am was still on the runway. This missed exit has been decidedly overplayed IMO.
    1
  3875.  @wrongturnVfor  "Spanish is a a brown accent." Well I guess that's up for grabs. From an article a few years ago: "Putting Spanish in the same box But others thought the term offensive and called it racist. Juan Pedro Sánchez, 25, who lives in Madrid and weighed in on the Twitter discussion, criticized those who responded negatively, saying the concept of race and ethnicity varies according to where you are. He said Spaniards were all too quick to point out that they're white."
    1
  3876.  @wrongturnVfor  "Yes, and he instructed (the communication being unclear, assumptions being made, radio not working etc) the KLM pilot. Had they heard it the accident would not have happened." Not following you here. What does the KLM have to do with Pan Am's missed exit? Who is "they" and what is "it"? Maybe if you clarify a little more for me. Thanks. I agree entirely with the Spanish report. The missed exit was "not very relevant." Let's test that by asking a simple question. Had the controller been more aware of the tight turn involved with exit C3, there's no reason to assume he might NOT have directed the Pan Am to exit C4. In which case the Pan Am would not have been making any error. Had ATC directed the Pan Am to C4, would ATC have been "in error"? Now, ideally you would want the Pan Am to leave at the earliest possible exit. But it's not clear that directing the Pan Am to C4 would count as a major breach of safety. This shows that the error was relatively minor. You assume I am biased because I am American. But that's pure speculation on your part. Only non-Americans cab be unbiased? That itself is bias. Finally, since it's the SPANISH report which declared this error "not very relevant," does that mean the Spanish also have a pro American bias? Based on what may I ask?
    1
  3877.  @wrongturnVfor  "I fail to understand whether you are stawmanning here purposefully to confound the discussion or is that really your thinking process. " Not sure what you are referring to, but I guess it's whether Spanish is a "brown" accent. I had not personally thought of it that way. And apparently, they don't like to be considered "brown" in Spain either. But if your point is that Spaniards are looked down upon by many, yes I accept that's true. As to the Pan Am crew making fun of ATC's accent, that's kind of speculative in my opinion. Sometimes people make comments like this, not to put down or make fun of, but because of any number of reasons. Maybe the FE spoke Spanish, or was being conversational. I myself love to imitate accents, but not out of racism or unkindness. Who knows.
    1
  3878.  @wrongturnVfor  "As for the american flight, the point here is they didnt miss the exit because they couldnt see it or understand it." It's not entirely clear why they missed it. The main problem was the exits were unmarked. They did not have any signage, and the crew's map of the airport was quite small. At one point the Pan Am speculated that perhaps ATC started counting at the first unblocked exit, which would make exit C4 the third exit for them. So there was potentially confusion here. "The fact that you are so personally hung up on American, Spanish race instead of language is literally proving my point." I'm not hung up on anything. I have noticed you have a tendency to treat your different speculations with too much certainty. "my whole argument is that the dutch report here is trying to blame the atc based on "speculation" using racist tropes." Please help me here. I just reread the Dutch commentary on the crash and found no reference to any such criticism that would imply racism. Maybe I missed it. If so, kindly share.
    1
  3879. ​ @wrongturnVfor  A lot to chew on here. I will pick a few points that stand out to me. BTW I do like the fact you go into great detail in analyzing even the smallest factors. I've always held that the more detail, the better we understand things. The alleged football broadcast: The Dutch report may well be putting too much emphasis on the possibility of a soccer (football) match in the background. Of course they want to make non-KLM factors seem as robust as possible. But that said, there is no doubt there was a broadcast of the game picked up. American investigators also concur. It's possible it was just interference and not being played in the control room. But that said, in any sound investigation, all possible factors must be considered. Mentour Pilot merely makes a passing observation in very tentative terms: "There was some noise indicated on the ATC tapes that would have indicated that the controller 41:35 might have been potentially looking at a football game at the same time." Or listening on a radio, which implies less distraction. I don't think it's scapegoating to mention this as merely a possibility in passing. Totally within bounds. Do you know for a fact there wasn't a broadcast of some kind being played in the tower? Of course you don't. So again, I'm seeing your speculation being stated with an unwarranted certainty. The Dutch report states merely the noise "suggests" a football game, and conclude "that they actually caused distraction are considered [by them] not sufficiently strong to warrant any conclusions" So the Dutch report too is tentative and not saying there necessarily was a distraction. It is bias on your part to suggest that only racism is operative here. This conclusion is rather unscientific. "he was lazy, unattentive and slow and watching a football match. Those aren't racist stereotypes in your opinion specifically directed at latino community?" Listening to the radio doesn't imply laziness. Just some possible degree of distraction. You assume this ONLY on the basis of the race of the parties involved. To even merely suggest the possibility is off limits for you. That's is classic bias: to see [edit: certain] things only through the lens of racism. An investigation should be based on facts, and not turning speculation into fact.
    1
  3880. ​ @wrongturnVfor  A follow up to my last post. The below is from Jan Bartelski, whose chapter on Tenerife you may have read: "Indications emerged from the transcribing of the CVR ant ATC recordings that. . . a sports programme was being played on a transistor radio in the Tower....It was a known fact that the controllers had brought a small transistor set to the Tower, as they had a particular interest in the match. The Spanish national goalkeeper Miguel Anger was a local hero. . . he actually came from Tenerife.. . . . The match, captained by by their star Pirri, was going badly for Spain. . . The match came to a climax at 17:04 hours....This could only have emanated from a radio set in the Tower. At that moment, the Spanish supporters....screams could be distinctly heard even on a relatively poor tape of the ATC recording....the transcribing team in Washington were able to recognize quite a few words in Spanish, which revealed that the radio commentary was furious. One sentence was clear: 'I could see it even from here.' . . . The transcribing team were convinced that the sentences picked up by the ATC recorder came from the transistor radio. . . .there were no Tower transmissions from 17:03.57 until 17:05.53 (one minute and fifty-eight seconds), that was around the time of the free kick. The only exception was a message on the Approach frequency at 17:04.58. . . hurriedly informing the pilots the centre-line lighting was out of service. " Now, I am fully aware of Bartelski's potential bias as a former KLM captain. Nor can I verify his claims. But that all acknowledged, this provides even more context to potentially support the theory. Given this, it's even more reckless, IMO, to damn and dismiss all of this as racism, when we have no way of knowing this. Notice also how neither the Dutch report, Mentour Pilot, nor Bartelski, are claiming this was in fact a major factor in the crash. But every potential factor should be mentioned and not brushed aside, as if you were a perfect mind reader. You make a possibly good assumption about racism, but then, as I have stated, you again go that step too far in claiming you can accurately read everyone's intentions. Better to spell out all possible factors than to dismiss without actual evidence.
    1
  3881.  @wrongturnVfor  "I am sorry, point me to where I have said racism is the ONLY reason here? Name one comment, one sentence where I have said that." Sometimes there are misunderstandings due to the way things are said or worded. This is the quote which lead me to believe you were making the football match question into a racist one: "my whole argument is that the dutch report here is trying to blame the atc based on "speculation" using racist tropes." Whatever your intended meaning, this statement could easily be interpreted as a factual claim that only racism explains the Dutch claim of the football match. If I was wrong to think that, then I admit to being wrong. But you should certainly be able to see why a reasonable person might come to that conclusion.
    1
  3882.  @wrongturnVfor  I am sorry, when you brought up the football match, you said nothing about any other factors. You tied it to racist tropes. That's all you said about it. You never once indicated it might have actually been the case there was a football match going on. Yours was a confident single-factor model in the sentence you wrote. You made it sound like no other motive could have existed for mentioning this. So let's test that. Do you concur the football match might well have been on in the background? And do you concede it's just speculation to tie it to racism? I am only focusing on race right now because I like to keep one topic for each post, as the lengths of our posts have become a bit unwieldy. I would like to pursue this until we might come to a resolution, Not sure we are there yet.
    1
  3883.  @wrongturnVfor  I am not finding any other reference to the suggestion of a football match being played, except for this: "The scape goat should be a person of colour in that tiny airport over there who wasnt paying attention because IDK he was watching football or something." Once again you link it only to race. Mentour Pilot merely mentions this as a possibility. You also exaggerate that into blaming ATC. You have no leg to stand on here. Your only two references about the football match were about race and nothing else. "if I hadnt specifically cited in my very first comment that this is one of the many factors," But here my comment was about only ONE factor, the football match. You have only mentioned THIS factor as a racist-based one. If you want to change your view here, I'm OK with that. But don't pretend you linked THAT particular factor to anything other than racism. Read your own posts!
    1
  3884.  @wrongturnVfor  Sorry, you are completely out of control. Nothing you say is making sense now. I simply challenged you on ONE claim: of racism with regard ONLY to the football match. I was confining -temporarily for the sake of making posts easier to keep track of -to this one issue. And you turn it into more long posts that have nothing to do with this topic: "umpteen explanations....answer my questions 4 or 5 posts ago....you will not admit race could be one of the factors..... I mock accents....." Are you incapable of sticking to one subject at a time? "You just keep dropping out of conversations" Do you see how long this thread is getting? It's not my style to answer everything in some arbitrary time limit you have set for me. There is no obligation on anyone to demand answers to every single one of your questions. I will get to them at my own pace, not yours. Thank you. Look how you "dropped out" of the conversation for 4 day straight! Please. Here's another example of what frustrates me: "How many times do I have to say that Football match could have well been on." Not ONCE did you say this. If we want to keep this conversation honest, and coherent, please provide the quote I must have missed about your saying the football game could have been on. If you cannot reproduce it, then this discussion is not worth my time. I cannot converse with someone who makes inaccurate claims about what they have previously stated.
    1
  3885.  @wrongturnVfor  I am willing to continue if you might agree to these proposed conditions: We start fresh, and not make too many references to past comments above, or try to make criticisms of, such as being inconsistent or biased or whatever. We stick as much as possible to one specific issue per post. Primarily, this will be about you asking me, one at a time, all the questions you would like me to consider. I am sorry for past offenses, or being discourteous. Thank you
    1
  3886.  @wrongturnVfor  Thank you. And yes, I will try to be a better listener. To be honest, I may not have fully grasped all of your intended points. What may have confused me at first is that you spoke of difficulty in understanding "largely brown and black" accents, but then later you mentioned "people's difficulty with accents." The first suggests racist stereotyping; the second, I took it to mean there is a legitimate reason (other than racist stereotyping) why accents can be a problem. As far as language versus accent, I am guessing I failed to make this distinction as this was to me the primary difficulty involving language with this incident. Now I am sure I am missing some of your points. I did grasp that you don't think race is a real thing. That seems indeed to be correct given a scientific perspective, and increasingly scientists have been confirming this point of view. So do kindly fill in the blanks so I can be precisely on the same page as you. Thank you.
    1
  3887.  @wrongturnVfor  OK, well I think all of that makes sense to me. So I so appreciate your making this clearer for me. On your last point, it turns out that unlike the others in the KLM cockpit, Meurs had many years of experience flying into Las Palmas. Whether this is possibly relevant to the accident, I will not speculate.
    1
  3888. I agree, most people haven't a clue. The term AI is arrogance in itself.
    1
  3889.  @Ricolaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa  No matter how you slice it AI is just mathematics, as I see it. That doesn't = intelligence in my book.
    1
  3890.  @shonsxxx  So what is the objective reality regarding homosexuality?
    1
  3891.  Ben  "If you were a scientist you would know that people are born gay." Hi, I agree with you in general. But a word of caution: if you want to use the term science or scientist, and not have it used against you, your statement should be, the state of the research is incomplete. Yes, most scientifically inclined people believe biology is key. But they also say the environment may well play a role; and that there is, as of now, not enough confirmation to say it's an undisputed objective fact that people are born gay (or more accurately, becoming gay later on in childhood/adolescence.)
    1
  3892.  Ben  OK, sorry you're right. Let's say this was intended as patronizing, which it was NOT. No one can definitively judge from a few brief words on a forum if there's an intent to humiliate or patronize. I did not mean to suggest this in the least. I ask you to please forgive me if I goofed. BUT, isn't it clear there is NO consensus among serious researchers that there's definitive proof we are born gay? I'm just advocating using the terms scientific or science very rigorously. And there's no rigorous "scientific proof" we are born gay. The evidence IMO strongly suggests it, but not to the level of an established fact.Again, sorry to sound like a jerk. But am I not making any valid point somewhere in my comments above?
    1
  3893.  Ben  I'm a gay person, and I tend to believe it's all or mostly biological. Just saying that I don't think I have seen any "definitive proof." The hormones are probably key, but there's been far too little research, and they now say based on the GWAS only up to 25% of gay attraction is possibly genetic. The twin studies don't convince me completely, but if you have a particular study or paper, I'm up for refreshing the memory. Bottom line, we both agree on the basics. :)
    1
  3894.  @UnbelievableTaken  Which war are you referring to?
    1
  3895.  @UnbelievableTaken  "They are imposing lgbt on us" Well, here's part of the problem. What exactly do you mean by "impose?" If gays go about their life and don't infringe on your rights or interfere with your ability to do the things you do, would that be OK with you?
    1
  3896.  @UnbelievableTaken  I agree, its wrong to impose a lot of these things. So that's why I asked you, would it be OK with you if they didn't impose themselves in this way, but your society just let gays alone? Is that asking too much?
    1
  3897. Human nature is ugly. This is social vigilantism. It seems you only get due process in court, if then.
    1
  3898.  @stopcensorship7705  And there is no known single gene for being a lefty. I don't think you've adequately studied the subject of genetics. I recommend starting here: "Multiple genes, not just a single gene, determine most traits in humans such as height, eye color, and skin color. When a trait is controlled by more than one gene it is called polygenic. Traits that are coded for by multiple genes do not have distinct classes and instead exhibit a range, which is why we see a continuum of height and skin color. . . .Genes are typically not the only determinants of traits. Although a few traits, such as blood type, are determined strictly by genetics, most traits are influenced both by genes and the environment in which we live. We do not inherit a disease, instead we inherit susceptibility factors..." Homosexuality has been found in over 1,000 animal species. No single gene has been identified, but I think you would agree non-human animals do not meaningfully choose to "be gay." All this should be enough to recognize that the "single gene theory" is a misguided approach to explaining homosexuality.
    1
  3899. The problem is, when you have mental illness you can't detect it yourself.
    1
  3900. They can't offer even the slightest break on an anniversary day. No, their egos always come first.
    1
  3901.  @anitalusk3165  Hello there, OK, I admit this is an obsession crash for me, as you have seen. What you seem to have been told are only tidbits of the government's story, which personally I believe, obviously. The front part of the plane were the only large sections found above ground. But they found the rest mostly under the crater. Nothing suspicious once you learn of similar events like Northwest flight 710, and Ethiopian 302. They found 1500 body fragments from which most pax IDs were made. Google "Wally Miller." As I've said before, government aren't as stupid as many truthers (not you) claim. No government in its right mind is going to target an empty useless field in the middle of nowhere. Again, not saying you should agree or disagree with me; but doesn't that strike you as just utterly bizarre? I mean, why not target a rabbit habitat, or mink farm? The truth is literally staring one in the face.
    1
  3902. I agree with you for the most part. The only flaws in the verdict were how they dealt with Roddie, whose behavior fell so far short of 1st degree murder that it begs for a re-examination of priorities and the felony murder rule. And, the assumption of "malice murder" needs to be carefully questioned. What has to be confidently answered is, would Travis have still shot Arbery had he NOT abruptly turned left towards Travis, running right into his gun? Instead of continuing straight past him.
    1
  3903.  @KayCartledge-wz2op  He did, he aided them. But he did not do so with intent to kill, or knowledge that the Ms would kill him. Nor did he kill them himself. To equate what Roddie did with what the Ms did is a bit of a stretch. But that is precisely what people are doing. It makes a mockery of justice, even though I am not shedding any tears for him and his racist pig friends.
    1
  3904.  @weytogoman  Yes, I know. I was trying to make two different points. I believe, increasingly along with many legal scholars, that the felony murder rule is very dangerous and Roddie's case in particular, shows how disproportional the punishment is to the crime. I brought up 1st degree murder only to show worst case sentences such as life in prison are usually reserved for worst case crimes, such as 1st degree murder. But Roddie's contribution to the crime is so ridiculously below that bar that it again shows very starkly how at odds with basic notions of justice, such as proportionality, his sentence is. Of course not everyone will agree, and I respect differences of opinion.
    1
  3905.  @buzzedalldrink9131  When you do research, you can't just dig up an isolated word or phrase. Wally Miller, the county coroner did indeed say he hadn't seen a "single drop of blood" there. BUT, and here's the big but you left out: "Miller walked the site for an hour before he saw the first recognizable body part, a piece of spinal cord with five vertebrae attached.. . . . .Hundreds of searchers who climbed the hemlocks and combed the woods for weeks were able to find about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue totaling less than 600 pounds, or about 8 percent of the total." I can only say, you obviously have no idea how to do research. Or are you suggesting I made up these quotes? Have a lovely evening.
    1
  3906.  @buzzedalldrink9131  Do you agree I did not make up those quotes? Yes or no please.
    1
  3907. "Hundreds of searchers who climbed the hemlocks and combed the woods for weeks were able to find about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue ...." Did I make that up? It means you got it wrong. Oh sure, not a drop of blood, but 1500 body fragments. Don't give me anymore of your BS.
    1
  3908.  @suspectdown5133  And what does this prove? That flight 93 didn't crash because Wally changed his story, or left part of it out?
    1
  3909. Extremism knows few bounds. You can bombard these people with pure factual refutations and they won't back down from their extremism. So, I guess a lesbian marriage cannot be feminist. Makes perfect sense. They each are oppressing the other.
    1
  3910.  @petrasolano1579  I'm being ironic. It's Julie Bindle who thinks lesbian marriages cannot be feminist.
    1
  3911. Or, as some truthers think, blow up a hole in the middle of nowhere rather than target buildings. As if some dead grass were vital to the alleged plot.
    1
  3912.  @textbox6648  Wrong. That video concluded the passengers brought the plane down. Did you actually watch it?
    1
  3913. "Zimmerman shot him dead." We all know this. Doesn't [rove he's a psychopath. Doesn't prove if it was in self defense or not.
    1
  3914. All CNN did was ask two questions, giving Mr Museveni a platform to speak to the world. He should be grateful.
    1
  3915. Because they aren't sane!
    1
  3916. No it wasn't.
    1
  3917. Life is not life, as evidenced by the fact that we value human life not because it's life per se, but because of the qualities that make it special. This gives rise to the abortion debate. Saying a life is a life, case closed, is to me the lazy way out of uncomfortable dilemmas. It's more comforting to believe in absolute answers than to admit there may be many layers of complexity, or tyhat not every question has an easy answer. This is not to say this proves abortion is OK. Just that the claim "life is life" is up for grabs by rational people.
    1
  3918. But to be fair, the outward cargo door was standard on all planes until then, and even on the 747.
    1
  3919.  @BucFanz63  They did do it that way for that reason. But they all did it for that reason, I believe.
    1
  3920. While on the subject of stupidity, we could start with the belief that governments try to violate basic physics as hard as they can. And decide to increase the speed of a collapse to make it look as fake as possible. And that the worldwide community of scientists and structural engineers, minus that small % of twoofers, were too stupid to notice. No comparison.
    1
  3921. Or both.
    1
  3922. spot on
    1
  3923. Except that like the Dutch report, he failed to point out that Van Zanten's actions were by far and away the only errors that constituted a major breach of fundamental rules.
    1
  3924. Debunked what? That's what most people already think.
    1
  3925. "You can't make phone calls from that high up" That's a myth invented by the truth mvt. They are good at brain washing, bad at doing research. If you do the research, you should be able to find the resources to debunk this. They collected almost all the debris, but they made the mistake of not releasing many photos, which set the stage for the CT brigade. The FBI should have known better. Just my O. Their smug public-be-damned attitude in effect makes them co-conspirators with the truthers.
    1
  3926.  @arjmcf  "The only plane part found was a engine that did not belong to the plane." Yet another lie from the truth movement. "There is a large PW4000 747 and 767 operator who also freely changes these engines between the types, along with the thrust rating plugs. On a 4000, the Boeing installations are identical and interchangable. The MD and Airbus have different interfaces. But, a 4052 is a 4056, is a 4060, is a 4062 with a simple plug change. Assuming all the internal components are configured for the thrust rating, which they most likely would be." And from wiki: "As a result of the Boeing 767 development overlapping with the 747-400's development, both aircraft can use the same three powerplants and are even interchangeable between the two aircraft models." The Boeing website itself clearly states this too. You can never trust the truth movements claims. Everything they say must be scrupulously fact checked. Or you can just employ common sense. Why would the government deliberately use a fake engine when it would be just as easy to plant the real thing? As to not finding plane parts inside the twin towers themselves, it's a valid question. But I'm pretty sure they did find some. Keep in mind, what other commercial airliners in history were ever subject to massive high speed disintegration and then crushed by hundreds of thousands of lbs of debris?
    1
  3927.  @antoasap8644  Such lack of empathy.
    1
  3928.  @jwattie144  Misses the point. Safety doesn't depend on where a crash happened, but why it happened.
    1
  3929.  @cccc9911  You have no idea if the plane is not part of the problem. Boeing just announced a software fix that could take months. What do you know that they don't?
    1
  3930.  @kwakkutabi3396  For now, but unlikely in the long run.
    1
  3931.  @english1midlands  But Boeing has always been the exception, at least until recently.
    1
  3932.  @madeinchina1450  We have some ridiculous policies in the US. One of them is the FAA: dual mandate to both promote commercial aviation, and also to regulate safety. One could not imagine a more morally bankrupt concept. The FAA has been losing its marginal credibility for years now witness their foot dragging over Allegiant Air. cheers
    1
  3933.  Ardent Fan  and now, suddenly, they are talking a 3-6 month fix for the hardware. It's so disgraceful and duplicitous to act as if there's no reason for concern yesterday, then all of a sudden announce a huge problem. Who are they kidding? They used to make great airplanes. The new Boeing just barely escaped disaster with their 787, and now this. It's a shame.
    1
  3934.  @cccc9911  Hard to say what role is bigger yet, but maybe you have access to info I don't. A lot depends on how prominent the training is supposed to be. It seems the upsets happen so quickly pilots don't have time to trouble shoot; you would have to have the correct procedure basically memorized in advance. In any case, something somewhere has gone very wrong.
    1
  3935.  @english1midlands  I said they USED to make great aircraft.
    1
  3936.  @xxtwr1  I never said or implied anything about Airbus, did I?
    1
  3937. You want mass murder of his own citizens in the hundreds of thousands, and torturing the opposition; and sham elections, then he's definitely your man.
    1
  3938.  @binodtharu1236  Bingo
    1
  3939. It does go overboard, I wholeheartedly agree. BUT, I don't see what's so painful about just granting gays the same rights as everyone else. In Kenya, in any country, it costs more to prosecute gays than not prosecute them. So Kenyans are wasting more resources enforcing discrimination than just having a discussion. That's where the President's message rings hollow.
    1
  3940.  @smath82  OK, I agree women have it worse. There.
    1
  3941. What makes you think that? Do we even have the first clue what consciousness consists of? It's arrogance in the extreme to claim (not you) that we are on the doorstep of machine self-awareness. Has anyone ever showed you a blueprint for consciousness? Without these basic models, it's just a hoax. AI is just mathematics. It's an act of blind faith to say that raw speed and mathematics automatically get you to consciousness. Why do people so blindly except these flimsy premises?
    1
  3942.  @akseli9  So effectively not as safe?
    1
  3943. Once again, an unsafe use of VFR, and confusing instructions from ATC were contributory.
    1
  3944.  @Spacelove360  And so are corrupt murderous tin pot dictators.
    1
  3945.  @Spacelove360  Oh, did my comment disappear again?
    1
  3946. I would vote either manslaughter or third degree murder.
    1
  3947.  @wardatkins1320  There was a plan to confront, not necessarily to kill.
    1
  3948. It was just reported today that a few weeks ago an Emirates 777 started to take off without clearance at Dubai and had to slam on the brakes after traveling over 2,000 ft. Luckily fog is not a problem in Dubai.
    1
  3949. Who in their right mind would?
    1
  3950. Jesus told us he would return within a human lifetime. We are still waiting. He cannot be trusted.
    1
  3951. But at least not a moral lunatic, psychopath and multiple criminal like Trump.
    1
  3952.  @EternalEyeofRa  I can't answer that. I don't know how many coincidences we are necessarily talking about.
    1
  3953.  @Larry26-f1w  You would not expect to find many intact bodies given the the fact they were crushed into tiny pieces for the most part.
    1
  3954. I don't understand how this could possibly have been in conformance with either VFR or IFR. There was neither ground based radar, nor adequate visibility. How can this be??
    1
  3955. There's no confirmation they were fighters, but sometimes the military send out "trainers," white aircraft that don't have shoot down capability. There was also a private jet in the vicinity. Either way, there's no convincing evidence of a shoot down.
    1
  3956.  @suspectdown5133  "Never said anything about...." Fair enough, but "do the math" implied it, no?
    1
  3957. By definition, all Tasmanian devils born in Tasmania were also born in Australia. We have become not just a sound bite culture but a culture specifically designed by and for the dull, stupid, careless, and shameless..
    1
  3958. But we may be born with tendencies toward becoming gay or straight. The whole subject is till fraught with uncertainty.
    1
  3959. Alternative reality you are in. The 2 McMichaels created their own reckless pursuit. The enhanced video shows that Travis lifted his gun and pointed it at AA several seconds before AA got to the truck. This is assault with a deadly weapon. Discuss.
    1
  3960.  @dragorn3212  I agree the racism card distorts everything. You are right, ultimately the criminals are the primary reason they and law enforcement and others get killed. But in the age of BLM, basic principles no longer matter. The same goes for the alt-right lest I be accused of racism. But that doesn’t give the McMichaels a free pass. Do I have some sympathy? Yes. I believe that despite most likely being typical racist pigs, in their own minds they probably felt they were in the right: just trying to be proactive citizens and keeping their neighborhood free of crime. But they used poor judgment. I have read the former Georgia citizen’s arrest statute several times. The McMichaels jumped the gun because they could not positively ID Arbery. In the words of GM’s lawyer, they chases him on a “hunch.” Hunches don’t cut it. If they did, then every time someone suspected somebody of something, we would have to put up with armed chases and roadblocks around the clock. Do you want to live in a society like that? The FBI enhanced version of the video shows that Travis had his gun aimed at Arbery before he even neared the back of their truck. That’s armed assault!! An armed road block and assault with a deadly weapon is reckless when you can’t positively ID your man. So while I have given the Ms the benefit of the doubt, the fact remains they created reckless endangerment. We can’t just erase their contribution to the killing on the grounds that the criminals are the primary sources of harm.
    1
  3961. No, they aren't as massively stupid as Trump's manic fringe supporters, who will believe anything they read as long as no evidence exists to support it. As Trump supporter Denver Riggleman recently said, "[It] really speaks to where your intelligence level is... to believe in that type of operation,"
    1
  3962. So now when I've got you on Sanders, you change the subject away from your own documented lie. I already indicated my agreement with you on Basset. He was not asked to find a confirmation of rocket fuel. This exactly parallels Sanders' test: he chose one that cold not, by the nature of the test, confirm rocket propellent. So tell me exactly what my alleged lie is, and how it could possibly compare to yours, which I proved with exact quotes. But you can't admit it because you're not a man.
    1
  3963. But we also must bear in mind that racists don't always pursue black people because of their race. The denial of this astoundingly obvious fact shows once more very few people have the balance or judgement to be on a jury in a courtroom.
    1
  3964. Profit
    1
  3965. Please lets not make sweeping generalizations. Yes, many men are creepy, way too many.
    1
  3966. In his country you're lucky if you don't end up in a body bag or torture chamber.
    1
  3967.  @famousmwofficial8046  I agree the West should pull out of policing the world. But when it comes to tinpot dictators personally responsible for over 1 million deaths, where torture is rampant,and elections are a fraud, the whole world has a right to be concerned. So when you endorse the view this man must be protected at all costs, you are protecting a thug along the lines of a Putin, pure and simple.
    1
  3968.  @famousmwofficial8046  You are right, it is hypocrisy. Noam Chomsky said that recently. But he also said it doesn't justify what Putin is doing. Putin is a man who has not the slightest concern for grabbing his citizens off the street, and because of him we have a humanitarian disaster. He's responsible for a minimum of 50,000 deaths at last count. He's a true thug and a true monster. I don't think you could compare that to any of our most recent presidents except maybe W. Correct me if I am wrong.
    1
  3969. I've always pointed out that while men do most of the violence, you can almost always find a woman who makes excuses for him.
    1
  3970. It's all a fraud so don't worry. Humans don't know the first thing about the ingredients of sentience. Has anyone provided the codes for consciousness? Or even a blueprint? So why this blind faith in something so far removed from reality?
    1
  3971.  @johnstedman4075  Well there will probably never be any real definitive explanation. There just isn't enough to go on. But we can be reasonably sure that the common Youtube comments implying he breached the rules deliberately is almost certainly untenable. Why do you question Mentour Pilot's title?
    1
  3972. No shoot down, no proof.
    1
  3973. Me neither. A year from now, his approval ratings will have plummeted. It's a bit like believing in Santa Claus, except they are no longer children....ostensibly.
    1
  3974. The DP goes too far IMO. The judge IMHO failed to prove malice murder beyond a reasonable doubt. I personally have no sympathy whatsoever for these racist slime balls. But personal rage should not nullify basic principles of justice. I see this as manslaughter or 2nd degree murder. I'd have given them 20 years, except for Bryan, whose penalty illustrates (in some cases at least) the injustice of the felony murder rule. His was a crime no where near malice or first degree murder.
    1
  3975. The argument that "gay isn't a choice" has always been about the attraction, not behavior. Those opposing this view are the ones who mischaracterize it as being about behavior. No one seriously debates painfully obvious phenomena, such as that gays choose gay behavior, the sun rises in the East, and dogs bark.
    1
  3976.  @bluecollarscholarmelrosepa5673  The reason most people choose same sex relationships is because of their homosexual attraction. As a general rule, the attraction is not chosen unless you are bisexual to a much higher degree than most of us.
    1
  3977. "I agree the mach 4 ejecta doesn't necessarily prove a missile." I actually don't know if it does or doesn't unless I review that evidence. But on the face of it it sounds a lot like that debris ejected from the WTC that skeptics think could only have been the result of explosives. For which they provide no proof. cheers
    1
  3978. It turns out the hunch Greg had was correct. BUT, what concerns me is the extremely fragile justification for this chase. By my reading of the evidence, their pursuit violated the citizens arrest requirements. By his own admission, GM stated his decision to pursue was based on a hunch. I don't know about you, but I would not want to live in a place where anyone on a hunch can not only chase you, but create what amounts to an armed road block. If you were innocent, as this man could well have been, how would you feel if a couple of men started chasing with guns displayed for 4 minutes, following hou back and forth, and set up a road block. I would be pretty alarmed, maybe scared for my life. I would be thinking, who the hell are these crazy lunatics? If we agree this is totally unacceptable behavior towards an innocent person, then we have to demand a little bit more proof of guilt. This is why "immediate knowledge" is written into that law. This the two men did not have.
    1
  3979. That's one way to look at it, sure. But the death penalty is also the easy way out: they won't be here to experience the punishment. I also think this was a bad call on the part of the judge. Malice murder is not beyond a reasonable doubt despite that these racist pigs don't deserve an ounce of sympathy. So the death penalty is excessive IMO.
    1
  3980. = twoof movement and its insatiable desire for drama.
    1
  3981.  @JohnStedman-d4s  Didn't the operational standards of today rule out operations into many of these airports? The Dan Air crash at Tenerife was flying in cloud but not being monitored on radar. Would that be allowed anywhere today? Was it justified back then? Thanks
    1
  3982. That's right, because you have a grasp of common sense that eludes little minds.
    1
  3983.  @sidvicious6505  "About a third of the high jackers have been proven to be alive and well. Oh course this could be due to stolen identifications" No, wrong. I've always challenged believers on this one. You have no proof. I challenge you to post this proof.
    1
  3984. Especially after MD blamed the crash on an "illiterate baggage handler." That may be the single most outrageous statement from MD.
    1
  3985.  @17DanielNaru  If gay attraction is wrong, why did God create it?
    1
  3986.  @17DanielNaru  "God did not create gay attraction." Help me with this. I thought God created the universe and everything in it. Is this correct or incorrect?
    1
  3987.  @17DanielNaru  "However sin entered the world through man's doing. Sin is lawlessness. It's rebellion against God." But God is said to be all powerful. Thus He had the means to ensure no human being would be capable of finding the same sex sexually attractive. This has an easy analogy in biology: we are hardwired to be able to like certain thing but not others. That's why you've never heard of people who are sexually attracted to rocks. There's no rock-sexual liberation movement. If God cannot control the range of attractions available to us, he is by definition not omnipotent.
    1
  3988.  @stopcensorship7705  "you're made in His image," That's impossible because if there is any god out there, it's not associated with the Bible.
    1
  3989.  @stopcensorship7705  The Bible does not talk about homosexuality very much. So why are you so obsessed with it?
    1
  3990.  @stopcensorship7705  Getting desperate -widespread belief that 8-25% of gay is genetic. You have not offered a disproof -"Study identifies 579 genetic locations linked to anti-social behavior, alcohol use, opioid addiction and more." You have offered no disproof. -Prenatal hormones theory of gay. You have offered no disproof. You fail on all 3 counts That's a triple failure to think scientifically. You fool only yourself.
    1
  3991.  @stopcensorship7705  "no genetic proof" Once again you don't think scientifically. A lack of proof doesn't prove no genetics. The correct view is to remain agnostic. Just as a lack of proof of aliens in Andromeda doesn't prove no aliens in Andromeda. Even an 8th grader understands this. As mentioned, the GWAS suggests a genetic contribution, acknowledged even by the people who ran and directed the project . But acknowledging these realities seems difficult for you. Maybe your anger management issues cloud your judgement? Who knows. The inability to acknowledge evident reality can have a hundred different causes.
    1
  3992.  @stopcensorship7705  -There's no proof that Amilia Earhart ended up on Gardner Island. But she might have -no proof of string theory, but it may be true -no proof of God, but there might be one -no proof global warming will cause "doomsday glacier" to melt, but it could -no proof you are an idiot, but it's distinctly possible
    1
  3993. And the FBI never took over the investigation. They were desperate to do so, as they were convinced for a long time it was a b-mb. But finally they proved it most likely wasn't.
    1
  3994.  @walkingman9171  But they didn't. In fact, they were dying to declare it a bomb. Jim Kallstrom was all dressed up for a media conference to announce this, until common sense prevailed. See William Tobin's sworn testimony. Very dramatic reading.
    1
  3995. Garbage
    1
  3996. But whatever id does, it won't have human like consciousness or a sense of right and wrong. This is one of the most fantastically ridiculous claims ever invented.
    1
  3997. I hope your brain isn't as garbled as your writing.
    1
  3998.  StopCensorship4  Hey there resident bot with no other life it seems. BTW the field of neurosurgery has absolutely nothing to do with the study of being gay and its causes. They are more inclined to do spinal surgery or remove brain tumors. Where do you think people got this silly idea from?
    1
  3999.  StopCensorship4  He may be qualified to have an informed opinion, but not because of neurosurgery. Neurosurgeons don't do homosexuality. They do the nervous system. They take out tumors. They don't study romance or sexual attraction. But you can delude yourself into thinking they do. "Ask yourself why do you promote medically risky behavior. . ." The answer is, I don't. Ask yourself, why do you promote making up what other people promote? This is why you thrive on Youtube and not in a laboratory. With real scientists. It's a place for people who are otherwise failures. Youtube is designed to pacify. Seems to work for you.
    1
  4000. The only one employing force is the Ugandan government, like its various proposals over the last decade for the death penalty and life in prison for gays. Like the rounding up of 125 people in gay friendly bar a few years ago, and murdering of gay activists. I guess you have a blind spot when it comes the definition of Force.
    1
  4001. @ra12n I am of Greek descent, and I readily admit the Greeks unleashed an orgy of barbarism on the Turks in the war of independence. The tortures were unspeakable. Yet they did not commit genocide.
    1
  4002.  @ermioniburgess8720  Yes, it was actually 3 genocides.
    1
  4003. "who wouldn't": Anyone who looks at the big picture and realizes flying is FAR safer than driving. You cannot judge safety on the basis of ONE crash. Shouldn't that be obvious?
    1
  4004. "Total nonsense." A concise summary of your post.
    1
  4005.  sergemarcotte4597  All of them? After all the time and thought that went into them? That's hitting way below the best. Very very hurtful.
    1
  4006. No, the real fairy tale is the one made up by the fringe members of the truth movement. Like their Big Lie that cell phones couldn't work aloft that day.
    1
  4007. So he can experience a ruined life for a lifetime.
    1
  4008. I don't think that's how it works. The crew usually requests clearances.
    1
  4009. TWA 800
    1
  4010. That's pretty good in itself. A dangerous delusional narcissist heartless sociopath who would willing wreck the country if he doesn't get his way is far more important than any issue.
    1
  4011. Well what's crazy is the stupidity of criminals. They leave an obvious trail of clues in their wake, love to boast about their crimes on social media. But this case out-does them all. I've always maintained that criminals usually convict themselves. Have they never watched a single episode of those forensic detective shows?
    1
  4012. This could as well be titled the DC-10 PART 2
    1
  4013. Why are you voting for a moral lunatic and traitor? Have you ever asked yourself that question?
    1
  4014. That's a pretty balanced position. I think, in reality, that while there are some very serious arguments against abortion, the political debate today has far more to do with religious belief (don't ask me why, given all the murderous commentary in the bible), and, I personally think, the far right republicans as a whole want to stick it to the democrats, and stick it to women as well. It's that simple. It's their political weapon in the war against woke, and the outrage that the democrats dare to attack their moral lunatic leader, Trump. These people have no empathy for fetuses whatsoever. It's all a big fraud.
    1
  4015. Because it sends a much stronger message to other violent racists? That said, while a hate crime is a reasonable conclusion here, not so sure it would pass the test of due process, which has to be beyond a reasonable doubt. Some people mistakenly think being a racist means a white man is unable to pursue a black man for any other reason than race.
    1
  4016. What do you mean by "turn them around at the beginning"?
    1
  4017.  @tomriley5790  I'm still not following. That's exactly what they did, didn't they?
    1
  4018.  @tomriley5790  Oh I see what you mean. The reason is that the taxiway had been crowded with airliners, and the first part of it precluded use of it. This is what prompted the back-taxiing. That is my clear recollection from other sources but my memory could be wrong!
    1
  4019. It's an issue because we are dealing with differing views of appropriate boundaries.
    1
  4020. The only partial defense that might be true is that, unfortunately, what you say is not necessarily common knowledge. I am surprised by how many people have expressed some sympathy for a child predator that taught at my school. Oh, they don't deny it was wrong, or that he should go to jail. But they don't get the lifelong trauma part. That raises the question, as with drunk drivers who kill, should the sentence reflect that for SOME of these predators, they don't understand the extreme extent of the damage they do?
    1
  4021. Doesn't matter. You can be against all that stuff and still leave gays alone. That's all I personally ask. Just as the West should mind its own business, we should not be minding the bedroom.
    1
  4022.  @stopcensorship7705  Where did I say parental guidance doesn't matter? Did you forget your meds again?
    1
  4023. But at least they aren't trying to exonerate the crew or the airline, at least at this point.
    1
  4024.  @adambeyer7024  But this was nothing like Lockerbie. Pan Am 103 resulted in wreckage scattered everywhere, and the wing section came down in one piece. In flight 93 almost all the wreckage was found within a bout a thousand feet of the impact point. There were two secondary debris fields, but they were tiny. One contained a few small fragments. The other, 8 miles away, consisted merely of a piece of paper and a few other light weight items, carried by air currents.
    1
  4025. There's some validity to what you say. But it's not a moral edict that every crime against humanity be mentioned in every Youtube anniversary post, is it?
    1
  4026. Ah was heylled up ba the Lord, he gayve mey hyis haynd, and he liyterally pulled mey up.
    1
  4027. And act as if he deserved life in prison.
    1
  4028. Your argument is based, it seems, on what the government "should" have, and could have done. But if we go by physical evidence and witnesses, there's not much of it. We also have a pretty well documented case that the passengers were indeed revolting. I think you discard a little too easily what that outcome might have been. I see your point about passenger fear in the future. But at the same time I believe the government would be dying to take the credit, given the stinging criticism they failed to stop any of the planes. The shoot down theory is not crazy, and might be true. But it's hardly a proven fact.
    1
  4029.  @FirstLast-xr9lo  There have been, over the years, various versions of the engine story, including it being variously over a mile away, and 300 yard away. What does a scholarly minded person do when confronted with conflicting info? He does his best to reconcile the info. Firstly, when you have two different distances, you don't latch on only to the one that fits your bias. 2nd, e know the engine was found in a catch basin, which in point of fact was 900 feet away, well within the distance of debris fields from other crashes. No Easter Bunny here. Again we have different stories about the shoot down order. The most credible is that it was issued after flight 93 crashed. This was made clear by the release of a batch of new documents about 2010. "If the passengers were to rush the cockpit they somehow did it during the only 3 minute window when there would not be any casualties on the ground?!?!?! " And how do you know that? Did you plot the flight path?
    1
  4030. Or their sham elections and torture chambers.
    1
  4031.  @stopcensorship7705  Still waiting for the name of the single height gene. I guess that retreat wasn't long enough for you.
    1
  4032.  @cxarhomell5867  Stop Censorship crawls the internet daily for every site having to do with gays. And his signature post is "there's no gay gene." I guess he didn't state this here today. Sorry for the confusion.
    1
  4033.  @thematic3893  The question is wrong. I already gave an answer to you in a previous thread. There is no mathematics or logic or magic formula that dictates why a person may have an interest in a subject. We are complex beings, including our pet interests. If you are searching for a logical explanation of curiosity, you won't always find it.
    1
  4034.  @stopcensorship7705  You keep sinking to new lows. So, do you believe human males, who on average are more aggressive than females, only learned to be more aggressive? Do you have proof? Are you a sociobiologist by training? Face reality, I whipped your b-t on this one, and you don't like it.
    1
  4035.  @stopcensorship7705  Stop Censorship says: "Physical traits in general are mostly genetic in cause, behaviors are not." Study says: "Study identifies 579 genetic locations linked to anti-social behavior, alcohol use, opioid addiction and more" You lose again.
    1
  4036.  @stopcensorship7705  "No behavior is genetic." "Study identifies 579 genetic locations linked to anti-social behavior, alcohol use, opioid addiction and more" You need to prove the above statement wrong. Go for it.
    1
  4037.  @stopcensorship7705  Discredited by whom?
    1
  4038. Maybe so. But did you ever stop and ask, if God is against such relationships, why did He create homosexual attraction?
    1
  4039. Why confusing? That's exactly in keeping with an adolescent.
    1
  4040. If you think it was controlled demolition you have not even half a brain.
    1
  4041. But this is just ménage à trois. Is that phenomenon considered repressed homosexuality? I think when dealing with perverts and men without a conscious, nothing should be too surprising in this day and age.
    1
  4042. @Catie R Everything you say may be correct. But it doesn't change the fact that the McMichaels handled the situation poorly. They violated both the spirit and the law in their pursuit. If you are being followed back and forth by some stranger with a gun, maybe you are the one trying to defend yourself. Especially if the gun was already pointed at you, which would be assault with a deadly weapon.
    1
  4043.  @catier4008  I don't dispute the stand your ground law. I dispute the claim of Gregory that he was pursuing a legal citizen's arrest. I'm not from Georgia, so I welcome any corrections, but it seems pretty clear from what I have read thus far that these two men did not meet the standards for conducting a legal citizen's arrest. As an ex-cop, the father should have known better. So whether they had a right to self-defense/stand your ground, they still behaved unwisely. Their illegal pursuit violated both the spirit and legal code of the citizen's arrest law. So I am saying, the two McMichaels created a needlessly risky situation for everyone.
    1
  4044. That's just wrong.
    1
  4045. Can't believe everything you hear.
    1
  4046. Ya, but that evidence is unreliable. Besides, if it was shot down, the government would by dying to take the credit. They were stung by the charges they failed to stop a single attack.
    1
  4047.  @cwbadmin  Problems: First off, no one that we know of actually saw an object strike the plane, so we don't have such a witness. OK, so if I've missed that, provide a link, but I've studied this pretty carefully. 2nd, the only debris found 8 miles away was downwind of the impact, and only light stuff carried by breeze - it came from the crash site. A shoot down would mean debris found west of the impact. There was no such debris. 3rd, going with the hero story, I think that's play thinking. Completely unnecessary and irrelevant. Plus, the government started saying no shoot down by that afternoon. Had evidence been found later , that would have been an embarrassment. And the NTSB doesn't go around doctoring black boxes - unless you think there was a Grand Conspiracy by the government after all.
    1
  4048. That's totally normal for a kid. What's disturbingly abnormal is blaming the parent for not being perfect. And not blaming the zoo for an obvious hazard.
    1
  4049. Double standard: respect other societies and their values. . . . but not other people and their values. A classic case of philosophical hypocrisy.
    1
  4050.  Molly Wop  Yes of course.
    1
  4051.  Molly Wop  What is your point then?
    1
  4052.  Molly Wop  That's because this form of communication is extremely prone to misunderstanding. My "yes of course" was in response to your "Double standard: Polygamy is illegal in the west." I am agreeing with you it is a double standard, or at least I think it is. I wasn't suggesting only western values are valid or always superior. That said my personal opinion is that on the whole the citizens of western countries are by and large freer and treated better than those of non western societies. For example polygamy will get you up to 5 years in prison in the US, but gays in Uganda are subject to life in prison. Yes, the US it teaming with arrogance and intolerance too. I don't deny it.
    1
  4053.  @jonesy279  But this was also a major case of design shortcoming. Even an engine ripping away is not normally supposed to lead to the plane falling out of the sky. It was in that sense not that far different than the Paris crash of 1974. The slat system was also implicated by the NTSB.
    1
  4054. May I ever so respectfully challenge your logic here? Think India and the old practice of wife burning. Would you say their society had a "right" to burn women to death? If you were one of those women, would you fight for this right?
    1
  4055. Agree. Except that it won't make the world a better place. And increasingly more and more people have come to think that torture is a very bad policy, and for some very good reasons.
    1
  4056.  @stopcensorship7705  Don't compare gay choice to hormones.
    1
  4057.  @stopcensorship7705  By definition, if hormones cause homosexuality, it is not a choice. You lose again....and again and again. You just don't have the mental rigor to put 2 and 2 together.
    1
  4058.  @stopcensorship7705  Please provide proof positive that hormones cannot be the cause of gay attraction.
    1
  4059.  @stopcensorship7705  "There is no proof hormones cause you to behave gae," There is also no disproof. Once again you don't understand the nature of evidence.
    1
  4060.  @stopcensorship7705  "in fact choosing to inject yourself with hormones is an artificial deliberate act to disturb the endocrine system. It should only be reserved for doctors to prescribe as treatment for severe hormonal imbalances." All the more reason, then, that non-immutability is irrelevant, since there exists at this time no known hormonal treatment for homosexuality. For all practical purposes, that renders hormones effectively immutable for gays.
    1
  4061.  @davidandthatotherguy1369  Hah. OK, tell me what my claim is.
    1
  4062. Where you been? She had a taser.
    1
  4063.  @kitosiriikrit7573  The derangement is you. There is nothing inherently wrong with homosexuality. Nor could you cite such a proof. The real question is, why do people like you obsess over the subject. No country ever went to war over sexual orientation.
    1
  4064. I probably know less about Harris than you. What are his biggest lies?
    1
  4065. Sorry, you're not a mind reader.
    1
  4066.  @robertchandler2124  Sorry, that's wrong. The field of heuristics (fancy name for decision making under a deadline) shows that we have to employ an element of shortcut thinking under pressure. The research shows that even highly experienced people can make mistakes like this. The scary part is that such errors often happen at an unconscious level, so we can't always guard against them as they happen. This is the inherent flaw in your view. But I give you a pass because heuristic models fly in the face of common sense. Modern day "common sense" has not yet caught up with this reality.
    1
  4067.  @Latingyal58  I don't agree with even manslaughter. If a surgeon with a perfect record causes death by a single mistake, we don't traditionally send her or him to jail. Nor do we jail commercial airline pilots for fatal errors that kill. Because we make a distinction between negligence, especially under stress, versus gross recklessness. That distinction is fast collapsing in the legal system as of late. I think it totally goes against due process and reasonable doubt. But I admit this is all open to debate.
    1
  4068.  @robertchandler2124  Like I said, I give you a pass.
    1
  4069. All over the world it seems airlines are not prepared to deal with the sudden increase in demand. And it's clear they are prepared to put passengers at greater risk to do so. Greed wins out over safety once again.
    1
  4070. Yes, but as Mentour Pilot states, it was a sound operational decision nonetheless.
    1
  4071. Because you'll believe anything.
    1
  4072.  @cxarhomell5867  There's not even proof of that.
    1
  4073.  @amirhassanmonajemi9573  I'm going to look that up right now.
    1
  4074.  @amirhassanmonajemi9573  Hmm, not getting that so far. In the final report I have open now, it says there was 300 lbs of fuel in the CWT when it departed JFK. The CWT capacity itself is 86,000 lbs, which means it was less than 1 % full. Let me know where you might have seen that figures.
    1
  4075.  @amirhassanmonajemi9573  "it was 3000lbs means 4 to 5% not more" It states clearly in the report in 3 places, 300 lbs, not 3000. If you have a direct quote that says otherwise, please cite it. 300 is not even 1% full. There have been other CWT events, although on the ground. I can cite at least 4, PAL 1990, THAI, Air Canada 1982 exploded during maintenance, and Bangalore in 2006. So rare, but not unprecedented. There was also Iranian 747 (1977?), though instigated by a lightening strike. The estimated frequency is something like 1 in 150 million flights Finally The fact they are now required to inert the fuel with I believe nitrogen, shows they consider it a real hazard.
    1
  4076.  @amirhassanmonajemi9573  Sorry to have replied twice. Lately my messages seem to keep disappearing and then reappearing. Thank you. Your comments are also within reason. One other point, if I didn't say this already. William Tobin's sworn testimony is an absolute must read. Jim Kallstrom was on the verge of declaring it a bom- to the media until Tobin stopped him. Some of the most dramatic commentary I've ever read. Far from a cover-up, he explains how the FBI was absolutely convinced it was sabotage. I think terrorism is much less likely than friendly fire. There was no attempt, for example to cover-up the Lockerbie bomb. So why would there be such a different reaction here? Speaking of which, I think actually the strongest case for a major coverup is Pan Am 103. The evidence that Iran was behind it is increasingly more convincing to me than the official narrative. Thank you for a nice back and forth.
    1
  4077.  @amirhassanmonajemi9573  I just replied and it seems to be deleted !! [edit], thankfully I'm wrong, it stuck after all. This crazy site should be fined big time for massive disregard of customer service.
    1
  4078. Pure speculation whether arrogance caused the crash. You cannot cite any real proof of this. I do agree that Mentour Pilot, while perhaps the best of the lot on these crash mini docs, could not get himself to say that the KLM, by far, committed the biggest mistake, at least within the system. That was a rare failing, IMO.
    1
  4079. Well, if we go by due process, in the final analysis, there's no proof beyond a reasonable doubt that she was negligent or reckless. Sometimes even the most careful people can make basic mistakes. The study of heuristics (decisions under a deadline) has tended to prove this. The lapses can be entirely unconscious. The arguments against Potter carry some weight. But does it really prove beyond a reasonable doubt a careful person could NEVER make such a mistake? I don't see how.
    1
  4080. But the irony is that since 1985, flying commercial has never been safer. For the world's first tier airlines, crashes are almost a thing of the past, witness the US airlines: but a single death since 2001, excluding the regionals. (But even including them, the record has still never been better.)
    1
  4081.  @toxinrazor6489  Well you provide a proof the Bible is God's word, then I might reconsider.
    1
  4082.  @toxinrazor6489  The bible cannot be proved by: 1) quoting on behalf of itself; and 2) two lines of print.
    1
  4083.  @toxinrazor6489  You have provided proof of neither.
    1
  4084.  @toxinrazor6489  I have no idea. Here's a list of some other monotheistic religions: "Zoroastrianism, Bábism, the Baháʼí Faith, Deism, Druzism, Eckankar, Sikhism, Manichaeism, Samaritanism, Mandaeism, Rastafari, Seicho-no-Ie, Tenrikyo, Yazidism" Are you saying you have personally studied all these religions, and that you have independently verified that all the gods of these religions are false, and only the Biblical God is true? If not, then how would you know which god is the only true god?
    1
  4085. And the truth movement. Even the lying US government pales in comparison.
    1
  4086.  @youtubeaccount3074  Yes, freedom is a virtue.
    1
  4087.  @thematic3893  The US is far from the ideal of freedom. But comparatively speaking, Uganda is a joke in that department. Even such a fierce critic as Noam Chomsky stated we in the US live in a free country. But that freedom has indeed been under more and more threat recently. For example, Trump's Big Lie really is a lie. But elections in Uganda have been criticized the world over for intimidation, violence against the opposition, and lack of transparency.
    1
  4088. The manic fringe fails at many other things too. They can't do proofs. They can't exercise rational judgement, recognize mental illness, or even trust the evidence of their senses. They think it's cute to vote for a sexual predator. They cannot do civility either. All they can do is SHOUT IN YOUR FACE. That about sums it up. Gullible to their very core, they are a menace to civilized society.
    1
  4089. You might be right. But in a court of law, I believe it's only fair to give the accused the benefit of any reasonable doubt. That means we can't assume it's a hate crime per se, even though they are racists. And we cannot assume premeditated malice. That means to me we should not rush to the conclusion they should get the equivalent of a 1st degree murder sentence, such as life in prison, or even 40 years. They need to pay for sure, but I would say 5-10 years is in alignment with the degree of proof on offer.
    1
  4090.  @stopcensorship7705  "epigenetics are not used to assert identity stupid. " No one has ever said that except you. You are the master of the Straw man. If you can't tell the difference between asserting identity and gay attraction, no one can possibly help you. BTW how old are you? Beyond 5th grade?
    1
  4091.  @stopcensorship7705  "hand coordination is a useful learned behavior. " More unscience from you. There's plenty of evidence it's partly heritable. Cite me a science paper that proves there's no biological component to leftyism. Go for it Mr. science, prove your self worthy and provide some f-ing evidence for a change. You never do this. You are just a robotic poster who doesn't understand the nature of evidence.
    1
  4092.  @stopcensorship7705  That's true. If you behave irresponsibly, then stds may be the result. But not all gays practice std-prone sex, nor do most lesbians. Did you forget about them? They are part of the gay population too, in case you forgot.
    1
  4093.  @stopcensorship7705  "as for health risks, I think ugandans can decide on their own policies" You're up to, what is it, Strawman number 9 or 10? That I can recall, at least You create them so often it's a bit trying to keep count.
    1
  4094.  @stopcensorship7705  Waiting for that peer review citation conclusively proving biology has nothing to do with being gay. I'm all ears. You know how to do searches on Google, don't you?
    1
  4095. Bingo. They knew this at least since the late 1960s, where three similar collisions occurred. Profit over safety once again.
    1
  4096.  @vidura  Well corporate culture may well be a form of mental disorder.
    1
  4097.  @BostonCréming  What else do you expect from a man who hates gays but loves to kill straights by the 100s of thousands.
    1
  4098. The claim that AI could become self-aware is something of a hoax. AI is essentially just mathematics. Does anyone possess the code for consciousness? We hardly know what consciousness consists of. Yet everyone seems to think that machine consciousness is just around the corner, a function of mathematical computation, and raw speed. And using silicon to make artificial simulations of neurons, a if we have even a clue of how all this translates into subjective inner consciousness. Could it happen one day? I won't deny the possibility. But right now the whole world has fallen hook line and sinker to the claim that it's just around the corner. Human arrogance has never been greater.
    1
  4099. An explosion before the crash? Please provide evidence.
    1
  4100. 16 seconds was total collapse time.
    1
  4101. Which states are we talking?
    1
  4102. Comments like these only reconfirm how unenlightened Ugandan culture, and all the people who come to its defense. Obsession with what people do in the bedroom is the sign of a snoop. Nothing more.
    1
  4103. He must like gays more than the political opposition. At least he lets gays live, but peaceful protestors are mowed down when it's election time.
    1
  4104. @Bottom Half Of a Skeleton Well I've seen you guys, what is it, 6.6 million times, praising a tinpot dictator.
    1
  4105. It's only a Human Being in one limited sense: its biology. Biology does not tell us what the moral status of a fetus is. Far from it.
    1
  4106.  @41Forethought  Makes some sense on greater reflection.
    1
  4107. The only caveat is, it's not clear the captain was actually attempting to take off that first time.
    1
  4108.  @textbox6648  You didn't listen to the video carefully. No shoot down.
    1
  4109.  @stopcensorship7705  "any US president surpasses Uganda's body count." Which is why I don't sing Biden's praises.
    1
  4110. If you're a pilot and you are told that a passenger might have a "meltdown and try to scratch" might you not react the same way and divert?
    1
  4111. So you think she's more of a threat than a man who lied about a stolen election, and committed treason. And who has stated he has no qualms about "termination of all rules...even those found in the Constitution." You face far more danger from him.
    1
  4112. If some Western leader said they found black people disgusting, would you respect their culture?
    1
  4113. @Pitts DaThird Just happened to be perusing the same threads you are it seems, not trying to hound you or anything. But of course God created homosexuality. By definition, he created the whole world, did he not? So how can you logically leave out bits and pieces of the world from his creation? God allegedly has complete and total omniscience and omnipotence. So God had absolute say in determining whether he would allow there to be homosexual attraction in the world. he could have said, "I will eliminate gay attraction from existence." or equally he could have decided to simply eliminate gays from his creation. If he could not, then he's not omnipotent.
    1
  4114. @Pitts DaThird Well, I don't see how I could know more than a non-existent invention of ancient man. But for the sake of logical coherence (of which Christianity is in short supply,) yes, it follows 100% logically that god created sin because he knew in advance man would sin. Whether he created it directly, or contracted it out to man, as it were, the result is the same. he knew all this was going to happen, but let it happen anyway. It's pure sleight-of-hand to hide behind man's failings when you yourself created his failings. He had the power to create beings who would not sin. If not, then by definition he is not the omnipotent being you and the bible define him as. Time and again god is said to be all-powerful but is rendered impotent when subject to specific tests of that omnipotence. Religion has done as good a job as it can, I suppose, of trying to reconcile an imagined all powerful and benign entity with the blunt reality of tragedy, alleged sin, and basic common sense understanding of logical concepts. But on even elementary reflection, it dissolves into incoherence. That's just my take on it of course. And one can go on and on with that theme. Thank you for your reply.
    1
  4115.  Ddot Norreh  Easier to name-call than the harder task of critical thinking. So God, the all powerful, is powerless to stop evil. If you can't spot the problem, you're the clown.
    1
  4116. @Pitts DaThird Restating your beliefs doesn't add to the conversation. I take it you will not take on the deeper questions I raise. This is one reason there are atheists an agnostics. They never get adequate answers to rational questions. If you like the fantasy of an all-powerful god who is powerless to prevent evil - or even better, WANTS to create evil -- then you can expect the rational response of many people rejecting this.
    1
  4117. @Pitts DaThird Do you accept, as I do, that you could be mistaken and absolute proof is unjustified?
    1
  4118. @Pitts DaThird And BTW, evidence comes in many forms, including logical consistency, and overall plausibility of many converging factors. One particular paradox for me is, why would a supreme being, existing from time immemorial, suddenly decide in 4004 BC to create a world. And not just any world, but a world with the most horrific suffering one could imagine. What is a perfect being doing creating not just minor imperfection, but the savage and most cruel type of imperfection imaginable? When one detaches oneself from religion, the notion of a perfect Being hell-bent on creating a world with massive suffering makes not the slightest sense whatsoever. It's the failure to acknowledge these glaring holes in the fabric of belief that ensures agnosticism and atheism will remain quite healthy.
    1
  4119.  Ddot Norreh  If you really weren't interested, you would have stopped replying. As trolls go, you're pretty average.
    1
  4120. @Pitts DaThird "God creates whatever he pleases, whenever he pleases, just like we do things ourselves. " But there's an important difference. God has been defined (without any supporting evidence) as a perfect being: all powerful, all knowing, and morally perfect. So he's not just like us. He creates only that which is in accordance with these qualities. "God didn’t make imperfection. He created choice by giving human beings an alternative. " That's just more sleight-of-hand. God's omniscience means he knew in advance that by creating man, he was creating imperfection. He knew in advance the holocaust would occur. He knew in advance man would create every manner of depravity. The free will/choice thing is ridiculous, as God could foresee which people would misuse their free will, and simply eliminate them from his creation. In which case we would have 1) No evil and; 2) no diminution in free will. Again, all these common defenses of god's alleged ways have no logical coherence. God is omnipotent, but then rendered time and again impotent. It's pure unadulterated contradiction. You can't both be all-powerful, but powerless to stop great evil. Or worse, thinking that such evil is deserved for non-violent transgressions. God believes in truly sadistic punishment, as in Leviticus, death for cursing one's parent. In any context, these are not the words of a loving Being. There is no place for torture or execution for cursing in a loving world. It should be uncontroversial to any thinking human..
    1
  4121. @Pitts DaThird "Once again you’re flawed." Yes, we are all flawed. Finally you're making some sense. "Knowing something in advance doesn’t make you guilty or culpable for those occurrences. People hire employees all the time, knowing that there may be a possibility they’ll get fired. " Again, a sleight of hand argument. The correct analogy would be: the employer KNOWS FOR SURE that hiring the employee would lead to great suffering but still hires him. If you create an erroneous analogy, you of course will get a false equivalence. Surely you can come up with something more intelligent and not so strikingly effortless to refute as this. "Parents have children even though they know in advance, that their children are probably going to disobey them. " The same false equivalence. Again, it should be obvious the correct analogy would be: parent knows in advance child will become serial killer. Then their choice would, as with God, be extremely evil. So your main theme here is completely at odds with modern day ethics. In the real world of more enlightened wisdom (sometimes at least) , if you hire a sexual predator as a camp counselor, you are rightly held accountable for that bad decision. I'm sure you would agree. Which means your argument should be self-evidently contradictory to basic moral standards even you agree with. But God, the MOST moral Being of all, is off the hook? Again, detaching oneself from the fantasy of organized religion , none of this makes even the slightest bit of sense. Thank you for a civil discussion.
    1
  4122. ​ Ddot Norreh  Free will may be a gift from God. How convenient to leave out suffering and evil. Is that a gift from God? Let me guess, since I'm 10 steps ahead of you. We brought it on ourselves through sin, right? So even minor sins deserve rotting in hell. Cursing your parent calls for execution. That's your vision of love and beneficence, right? That's why fundamentalists will always be a minority. They think the most Perfect Being would wash all of us away in a flood for even trivial offenses.
    1
  4123. @Pitts DaThird I already dealt with that. A truly all-powerful and all-knowing and loving kind being, would say to himself: I can foresee which people would misuse their free will, so the MORAL thing to do is eliminate them from my creation. Then I would have a 1) a world without evil and 2) complete and total free will for all of my human creations. Do you have a reason why God chose to create evil beings instead? If so, let's here it.
    1
  4124.  Ddot Norreh  That's fair. But you still can't seem to get enough of me. Keep on replyin.
    1
  4125. @Pitts DaThird I think we have exhausted our dialogue. Thanks for being a good sport.
    1
  4126. It's about 5% at most
    1
  4127. Maybe because they weren't expecting to shoot him until Arbery lunged at Travis.
    1
  4128.  @blizz2748  I'm commenting on Travis' likely psychology. The poster asked "How did they think they would get away with it." In their minds, whether rightly or wrongly, they probably saw the shooting as self-defense. This was self deception based on their delusional thinking. However, I would take small issue with whether aiming a loaded gun at someone proves they were intent on firing it. Police do this all the time, but only sometimes pull the trigger.
    1
  4129.  @blizz2748  Well I certainly don't side with these men. However, I don't seem to be in very good company when I state that IMO the penalties are quite disproportionate to the crime: -this is a good example why the felony murder rule can be seen as arbitrary -for Bryan, especially so -The lack of a robust proof Travis' psychology at the time he shot Arbery was based on malice. Is there not even an ounce of reasonable doubt? I'm hoping you can accept my difference in opinion on good faith. From my perspective, the context is more akin to 2nd degree murder or manslaughter than provable malice. I speculate the odious racist factor, while obviously relevant, has nevertheless led to a thoughtless dispensing of due process, as I have tended to see it.
    1
  4130.  @blizz2748  Fair point. But let's break this down a bit. I was referring above to the initial state trial that didn't explicitly include the hate charges. So let's look at this first trial, before we knew the full extent of the racial slurs. To make it even more explicit, let's say that Arbery was also white. Do you think that life in prison would match this otherwise identical crime?
    1
  4131. But that doesn't mean they are gay. Gay means one of two things: gay attraction; or sexual behavior which flows from this attraction. There is a third option: no genuine change in attraction. But in prison, you take what you can get.
    1
  4132.  @phairplaigh  "That Sounds Gay" And you sound stupid. As it turns out, both are true. I am gay. And you are stupid. Maybe that's why you worked in a prison.
    1
  4133.  @phairplaigh  Yes, it is kind of a bummer.
    1
  4134.  @vdoc2760  And once again, it doesn't mean these men are gay.
    1
  4135.  @vdoc2760  The primary definition of gay: "sexually or romantically attracted exclusively to people of one's own sex or gender" If they are married to women, then that kind of violates the definition. It's not clear if such men are gay in the primary sense, or are simply making do with the only option they have for sexual relationship. Is a man gay if he has sex with men for the money, but has no real attraction to them? The answer can be yes or no depending on how you look at it. IMO gay is primarily an attraction. So we can only speculate why some men in prison have sex w other men.
    1
  4136.  @vdoc2760  IMO you are being overly literal. For example, imagine a straight male prisoner is dying for sexual release. So imagine he closes his eyes, asks his buddy for a handjob, and fantasizes he's being given it by a woman. Does that make him gay? Of course not. At least not necessarily. But he is still sexually aroused by the whole fantasy and can get off on it. Similarly, practicing masturbation does not make one "hand sexual."
    1
  4137.  @LOSTGPS  We are dealing with people who have limited imagination. They see only in literal, linear terms. So they cannot see outside of the box.
    1
  4138.  @vdoc2760  For the same reason that men buy masturbation machines. It's more exciting. It's also possible these men are bisexual, in which case they are not gay. Straight men also want romantic and emotional bonding. For some straight men, "gay sex" is thus better than no sex, or self-sex. It doesn't mean you're gay. I speak from my own experience. As a 100% gay man, I have nonetheless enjoyed the one time I had sex with a woman. And a handjob or two. She did a lot better than I could do myself, even though I wasn't really attracted to her. But boy, that was exciting, and I would do it again if I had no other choice.
    1
  4139.  @vdoc2760  The behavior I am talking about has been confirmed multiple times by prisoners themselves. Here is one example, coming from a British report titled "Sex in prison: Experiences of former prisoners..." "One heterosexual man said that he had had consensual sex with gay or bisexual prisoners 'out of necessity'. He said he had resumed exclusively heterosexual relationships since leaving prison, and he added: 'I’m completely straight; what happened then was just about having my sexual needs met, in a particular time and place, where I couldn’t get [heterosexual] sex.' ”
    1
  4140.  @vdoc2760  "If a individual has sex with the same sex and enjoys it, that makes that person homosexual." You are being once again too literal. This man is just one of countless case studies of prisoners. You have a rigid model in your mind about what gay means, as I see it. That said, I think we have come to the end of this thread. We have both made our points very clearly. If you have anything else to add, please do.
    1
  4141.  @Angel-Azrael  The overwhelming evidence is that the attraction is not a choice for most people. For those where it might be a choice, that's known as being bisexual. Perversion is in the eyes of the beholder. That said, as a rarely active gay man, labels like that don't concern me nearly as much as how we treat one another.
    1
  4142.  @vdoc2760  Yes, a better convo than a lot of others on here. Merry Christmas to you too. :)
    1
  4143.  @stopcensorship7705  He just confirms that when all you got is men, you take what you can get. This is all over studies and interviews, all over the web. Have a look yourself. Fleece Johnson: "well we have sexual desires right. So you got a bunch of mens locked up in one place all um get horny all of them sexual desire so what are they gon do? 0:26 won't let him have a woman.... somebody's going to give us 0:32 some booty and then just as simple [laughs] 0:35"
    1
  4144.  @stopcensorship7705  Oh geez, I thought you were gone for good. How silly of me.
    1
  4145. If you want to put forth the staggeringly silly theory that crashing a plane into a plot of grass in the middle of f-ing nowhere helped the government's agenda, do feel free to continue marginalizing whatever remnants remain of the truth movement.
    1
  4146.  @timshea4279  And the media reported KAL 007 had landed safely on Sakhalin Island. And of course we know flight 93 landed in Cleveland. And Elvis lives. Because I'll believe anything.
    1
  4147.  @timshea4279  Indeed. The basic theme from truthers seems to be, I am uniquely endowed with the special gift of scientific revelation. So by implication the scientific community must be blithering idiots, so you and me must be many notches more blithering idiots. BTW KAL 007 is always in the back of my mind in 911 kooker discussions. Because if you think about it, it's very instructive. It eluded the Soviets. In its first overfly, it flew for some 35 minutes over some of the most sensitive and highly guarded regions of the country and escaped back over international waters. (It was shot down only after re-entering Soviet territory) So for over 1/2 hour over a highly sensitive military zone, at the height of the Cold War, at the height of suspicion, Soviet defenses failed to intercept a slow lumbering airliner for over half an hour. Of course the truthers have come up with the absurd lie that in a dramatically different context, each jet should have been intercepted within milliseconds (I exaggerate a bit.) And it's total fabrication. In the Cuba hijack era I cannot remember a single instance of interception despite literally dozens or even 100s of them in the 1970s. Can you?
    1
  4148.  @evobase  They stated they got rid of it because it was obviously erroneous.
    1
  4149.  @evobase  Well I am not British so perhaps I misunderstood, but this is what the BBC wrote: "We no longer have the original tapes of our 9/11 coverage (for reasons of cock-up, not conspiracy)."
    1
  4150.  @evobase  But either way, the real refutation of controlled demolition, and which somehow alludes the truth movement, is the fact that no government out to commit the Grand Conspiracy of the century is going to have as its center piece junk physics, the likes of which any dimwit can uncover in two seconds. That is crackpot, and shows the truth movement engages child-level fantasy not fit for adult analysis.
    1
  4151.  @evobase  OK I take it back, I think the meaning of that sentence is they claim they lost all of their 9/11 coverage. So maybe you are right after all.
    1
  4152.  @evobase  You don't have to discuss if you don't want to. I am just expressing myself. If one wants to carry on in adult fashion, then one has to drop the 4th grade notion that, to the extent the claim up for discussion is impossible plane impacts or controlled demolition, the government would rely on easily discredited junk science. There would be a unanimous consensus in the engineering community if that were true. No amount of tinkering with absurd logic changes that fact. Since this is precisely what is alleged by some skeptics - maybe not you, sensible people have to conclude that such people have a serious mental deficit. The US government may be evil, but it's not suicidal, or nuts.
    1
  4153. And Trump's attempt to steal the 2020 election? That's worse than cheating.
    1
  4154.  @Abcdefdjdjdjd  Hey, a liar's a liar. They come in all forms. BTW I am a staunch libertarian. Trump is a leftist by comparison. Nice try buddy.
    1
  4155. Why do you think it's so important to hang on to a name that invites hurt and anger? People have no idea why you love to name yourself after mass murderers.
    1
  4156.  @benswolo2324  In which a million or so Armenians were massacred. Are you nuts?
    1
  4157.  @amirhassanmonajemi9573  I believe the witnesses as a whole. But the problem is there observations don't correlate very well with the known timetable of the break up and ensuing fireball. One example is Fred Meyer, whose official witness description stated that the fireball took just 10 seconds to fall to the sea below. That supports a late stage event.
    1
  4158. There's plenty of doubt. So why do people keep saying this?
    1
  4159. I'd like to see the proof.
    1
  4160. Planes I think are getting safer. The first widebody generation was safer than the original 1960s jets. Today, the crash rate of virtually every type (not including max) is lower. And this is also reflected in the overall fatal crash rate: compare the US 1960-1980 with its countless crashes and over 1,000 fatalities; versus the last 20 years: 0 crashes, one death. (excludes regionals) No comparison.
    1
  4161. versus Snoopzilla
    1
  4162. Turkish Airlines
    1
  4163. A lot of people thought the streak of light was a missile. What's missing IMO is the proof.
    1
  4164.  @uptick888  If the proof was covered up, then by definition we don't have a proof of a proof.
    1
  4165. Ballots are lost in every election. Dead people "vote" in every election. Widespread fraud is a totally different beast.
    1
  4166. Ironically, the answer may well be yes.
    1
  4167. Really. What is honorable about torture and murder, Uganda's worst mass murderer in history in fact, where slaughter of the opposition is his favorite pastime? To each his own.
    1
  4168. @Bottom Half Of a Skeleton If your'e that deluded.
    1
  4169.  @alexrichardson5731  "Racial Slur proving the murder was motivated by Racism." Not necessarily. Can a racist white chase a black man for reasons other than race? Yes Can a white racist man in a moment of stress instinctively yell out F-- N-- after a surprise assault? yes Example: Paula Dean admitted she used the N word after being robbed by a black man. But she didn't commit a hate crime. This is not to say these men are not racist scum. Of course they are. But I find it funny how anger and blind rage at racists allow us to pretend we know FOR SURE their mindset.
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  4170. When you have the proof of God's viewpoint , please provide the link.
    1
  4171.  @SunflowerSunflower-lc3kw  You are going around spamming all the threads with your obtuse and hateful comments. Take a deep breath and try to relax a little. Maybe then, you can have a sense of compassion and humanity.
    1
  4172.  Jack wolfman  Well, how do you know for a fact it wasn't a mistake? The study of a concept known as "heuristics" provides clear and compelling evidence that even primitive error is possible for a highly experienced cop, especially when under stress. If you have an open mind, let me know and I can post a brief quotation on the subject.
    1
  4173.  @bokvarv1926  But we still have to have them. Our only real choice is to make them more accountable.
    1
  4174.  Jack wolfman  It was a mistake most likely. No proof it was deliberate.
    1
  4175.  Jack wolfman  It was a mistake. Live with it.
    1
  4176.  Jack wolfman  In a court of law, they will find that it was not deliberate. The reason is that you can't prove what her intentions were. Courts go by proof, not by Youtube posters.
    1
  4177.  @bokvarv1926  We are in agreement.
    1
  4178.  @bokvarv1926  I was also struck by recent articles pointing out the incentives that give cops motives to arrest people. It goes on on many levels. Lots of reform needed!
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  4179. No one, male or female, can be totally trusted, period.
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  4180. @Joey G The deeper truth that eludes Stop C is, attractions in general are not chosen. I would ask him, what's your favorite color? If it's blue, did you choose it? People like colors, they don't choose them. They like a certain ice cream flavor, they don't "choose to like it." Same with love. Hence the expression "to fall in love." Not "choose to be in love," which everyone recognizes as a counter-intuitive notion. But somehow this most obvious of human features is declared null and void when it comes to being gay.
    1
  4181.  sukadik2441  Don't you have anything more useful to do than post the same question ad nauseam on every Arbery forum in the universe?
    1
  4182. Except there was no shoot down.
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  4183.  @kenstears2512  Hearsay is especially meaningless when it appears on Youtube. There is no evidence of a shoot down.
    1
  4184. Fraud is deeply ingrained in Mike Lindell's psyche.
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  4185. I was behind Maui.
    1
  4186. Probably not. You should know that for months now, Youtube has some screwed up issues where comments disappear and then reappear. If you choose the sort by newest first option, at the beginning of the comments section, you will most likely see all of them. cheers
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  4187.  @m0joj0jo666  You have not an ounce of proof. What else is new with the truth movement and its many offshoots. The 2ndary debris field was just some business cards and insulation. The rest of your theory is pure speculation (I'm going to guess they somehow managed to clean up all the wreckage of flight 175 before anyone noticed?), is most assuredly not critical thinking. It is wild unsupported speculation.
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  4188.  @m0joj0jo666  Firstly, thank you for removing your post with the completely unsupported claim of big chunks of debris raining down on New Baltimore. Corrections are always welcome! OK, even if I accept the idea of fight 175 not being the plane that hit WTC 2, you have so far not shown any trail of evidence leading it to Shanksville. The debris fields are irrefutable proof: a few pieces of paper in a single town, and a few tiny bits of bone or seats in another; that does not add up to a 100 ton 767 (or whatever it exactly weighed.) in any way shape or form. And there's no sensible explanation for "crashing" flight 93 into the middle of nowhere. That makes flight 93 the most bizarre conspiracy theory ever invented in history: the first to target blades of grass in an empty useless field. As to you theory of "not a viable option," no offense but that's a load of HS. Especially pre 9 one one, half filled planes were pretty common. I've been on my share of them. What you are forgetting in your equation is that the return flights to the East Coast may be very full, and absolutely depend on the Westbound flights making their trips. This is basic airline economics. As it turns out, as a collector of all things commercial flight, I have the pocket OAG flight guide from Sep 2001. These flights are absolutely listed as daily operations. It's a complete truther fabrication those were not scheduled that day. Yes, don't believe everything the gov says. But the same goes for the tuth mvt and its myriad lies and distortions.
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  4189. But in this case they didn't.
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  4190.  @geraltrivia6148  Maybe so, but I think if anything rape culture is more under attack than ever before. Otherwise we would never have seen the likes of Biden praising the Stanford rape victim's courage, or the fall of powerful men like Weinstein, Epstein and Cosby. Unthinkable just a while ago.
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  4191. Hey, I live on the US east coast. Have some respect.
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  4192. Where is your evidence gay is a choice?
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  4193. Love for dictatorships is nothing new.
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  4194. May God almighty explain why he passed papers on a world where he knew 9/11s and other tragedies would happen regularly. Is he powerless, or a moral failure? Or both? He seemed to like genocide: " in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God gives you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes." (Deut 2:16:-18).
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  4195. It only shows that corrupt Tin Pot murderous dictators have honest opinions too.
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  4196.  StopCensorship4---3  For someone who goes after young girls, you're one to talk.
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  4197.  @kitosiriikrit7573  You can't reproduce if you're infertile either. But I bet you don't complain about that. "extremely wring and disgusting" is just your opinion. As Pew Research shows, in most Western countries, it's now accepted as normal. Your opinion is no more objective or true than anyone else's. Unless you think you're special.
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  4198.  @TheHaters112  "You have a higher chance of someone breaking into your house killing you than riding a helicopter." I don't see how. A little basic numbers crunching: if the average helicopter ride is one hour, and the risk is one death per 100,000 hours, that works out to 8,760 hours per year. So if sitting in your home were this dangerous, you could expect to die about once every 12 years. But that's probably being too generous. If this stat is based on passengers carried rather than hours traveled, then the risk would no doubt be greater. If the average ride were 15 minutes, that would be the equivalent of dying once every 3 years while sitting at home. I like to play with numbers and stats, and this was concocted in 5 minutes. Maybe this is all wrong. Corrections welcome.
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  4199. Because he used his car to prevent Arbery from getting away. In the trial, I believe it was also speculated he assaulted Arbery with his car in an attempt to run him over.
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  4200. Oh yes it can. Water itself can cut through steel. There's a Youtube video showing this. There's another one showing a ping pall ball cutting a clean hole through a ping pong paddle. The physics is complex and depends on the speed of the object, as well as its rigidity. You can't make up physics in your head. The idea that you are smarter than the worldwide community of engineers and physicists is preposterous. I challenge you to take your claim to a university physics department and have then confirm your claim. But I bet, like the truth community in general, you couldn't be bothered to lift a finger to confirm the stuff you read, or spin out of thin air. Much easier to spout whatever junk you want on Youtube.
    1
  4201.  @DTroop10thCav.  Wrong again. You are here referring to the specified design limits set by Boeing. But these are absolute minimum published limits, and aircraft frequently greatly exceed those limits. The proof comes in the form of planes that have exceeded those limits (such as Turkish Airlines flight 981,) as well as manufacturer routine testing: "During the test, the wings on the 787 were flexed upward approximately 25 feet which equates to 150 percent of the most extreme forces the airplane is ever expected to encounter during normal operation. The test is used to demonstrate a safety margin for the design and is part of the certification process to show the airplane can withstand extreme forces. Ultimate wing load testing is standard procedure for any new airplane design and has been done on aircraft large and small almost since the beginning of aviation. Often simple sandbags are placed on the wing of an aircraft to represent the maximum forces needed to be tested. Boeing and other large plane makers use elaborate testing structures (pictured above) that flex the wings to apply the necessary forces. In the past, Boeing has flexed the wing beyond the required 150 percent, and more than once the company has flexed the wings of a new design to the failure point. The most recent example was in 1995 with the 777." -Wired In other words, you're wrong.
    1
  4202.  @DTroop10thCav.  "Do you know what damage a bird can do to the nose of an airplane?" Careful there. You're actually disproving your claim. A bird hitting a plane is analogous to an aluminum plane penetrating steel. In both cases, the lighter less dense object is causing damage to a much denser structure. Do you not understand that you just proved my argument?
    1
  4203.  @Angelum_Band  Bingo is right. No proof for the conspiracy brigade, as usual.
    1
  4204.  @stulax1216  So you believe the crash was faked?
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  4205.  @stulax1216  What is to be gained by targeting blades of grass in an empty field? I'm all ears.
    1
  4206. Well then what is the mechanism? The earth has gone thru many hot spells, but never ever this suddenly as far we know. Isn't it obvious? But even if it's a natural cycle, humanity is still deeply f-cked. That's what matters. Not who or what caused it.
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  4207. Let's celebrate that the petition failed. People with nothing better to do than harass a parent for being human come off the worst in this whole saga.
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  4208. @David "All their behaviors fit the criteria for a mental illness." You're making up stuff again. There's no absolute neat and tidy formula, and it certainly is ridiculous to assert "all their behaviors fit the criteria...." Gays also say hello, do their laundry and brush their teeth. Those are behaviors that are not indicative of illness, any more than they are for straight people. According to the mental health community, the main criteria for a mental disorder or illness is, does the behavior/ mindset necessarily impede normal daily function, or does it cause significant discord or unhappiness. And secondarily, does it cause harm to others. That has always been the base standard for mental illness, though there's no hard and fast criteria. One of the main reasons homosexuality was taken off the DSM is because there was never much evidence to begin with that gays suffered significant impairment. This was first suggested, and since confirmed, by Evelyn Hooker, who challenged doctors to see if they could distinguish gays from straights on typical mental health surveys. They could not. That remains the case to this day. If you want to call homosexuality a mental illness, that's OK by me. But don't pretend there's a consensus that agrees with you.
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  4209. @David "Let's pull the dictionary." You demonstrate ridiculous understanding of this definition.You are quoting only the first part of the American Psychiatric Association's definition of mental illness and ignoring the rest. They don't mean anything so silly as that every change in behavior or emotion is a mental illness. If I suddenly become happier, is that mental illness? If you start to behave more politely, is that mental illness? If I start to think more clearly, is that mental illness? Your statements are the intellectual equivalent of a nine-year-old. The APA does not define a lack of humility, or bias as a mental illness. You're making yourself look absolutely silly. You keep on making up stuff. You have no sense of embarrassment saying these wild, absurd things? Now, the APA also disagrees with you about homosexuality. Their statement from 2013 reads: "The American Psychiatric Association believes that the causes of sexual orientation (whether homosexual or heterosexual) are not known at this time and likely are multifactorial including biological and behavioral roots which may vary between different individuals and may even vary over time. The American Psychiatric Association does not believe that same-sex orientation should or needs to be changed, and efforts to do so represent a significant risk of harm by subjecting individuals to forms of treatment which have not been scientifically validated and by undermining self-esteem when sexual orientation fails to change. No credible evidence exists that any mental health intervention can reliably and safely change sexual orientation; nor, from a mental health perspective does sexual orientation need to be changed." So much for your fake consensus on homosexuality. Your very source refutes you in their own words. Am I supposed to believe you or them? Which is it? Have a great day.
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  4210. @David If it has been proven beyond any doubt, you haven't provided it or cited it. It's just a very strong conviction. Perhaps that's why you embrace the Bible without question. It's more important for you to THINK you have found the truth, than to actually have found it. That's why you gave an amputated and truncated and utterly lame definition of mental illness. You couldn't find one that fits with homosexuality. The feeling of absolute certainty goes against the scientific spirit, and the mindset needed to put aside bias and preconceived conclusions. That requires humility, which is sadly lacking in your posts.
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  4211. @Mars "The entire reply of yours is what is known as Ad hominem. " There's not a single Ad hominem in my reply. You have consistently demonstrated a lack of basic distinctions and definitions. "I dot not define it, never did, never said I did" Oh yes you did. You said, let's look at the dictionary! You quoted word for word the first part of the APA definition. This was your attempt to define mental illness. Now you backtrack. You want to talk about lies, look at your own posts. You have lost any semblance of credibility you may have had. You act like a teenager, not an adult. Have the final word if you want. I guarantee you, no one is listening.
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  4212. Because you'll believe anything.
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  4213. Idk: Because as a generality, child molestation is not as extreme as the worst crimes on the book. For example, stabbing a child to death. Would you agree?
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  4214. BUT, they aren't domestic terrorists trying to destroy democracy.
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  4215.  @444TripleH  Why would we want to worship a creator who chose to invent evil?
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  4216.  @skribblztheofficialchannel3086  Yes, if God could always have "been there," then why not the cosmos? It may be that there is no beginning and end to the cosmos. That's no more radical an idea that the creator was always there.
    1
  4217.  @siberiancajun  I thought the Creator created everything. But if not, due to his omniscience, He knew full well that evil would result. Thus it's his baby. He wanted it to happen.
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  4218.  @siberiancajun  "The reason we have evil is because this creator has given us free will" No, that's wrong. We can only choose evil if evil exists. If it didn't exist, we could not choose it. God hardwired the cosmos to contain evil. Humans did not. He could have said "the concept of evil will not exist in my creation." Why didn't He?
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  4219.  @siberiancajun  Furthermore, given God's omniscience, he could have used it to foresee which people would misuse their free will, and eliminate them from his creation. Then we would have, -No evil -Everyone would still have free will Again, it's easy to see through the tissue of religion once you allow yourself to use your free will to think freely.
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  4220.  @siberiancajun  " if I run my truck into a tree, it doesn't mean that the creator of my truck intended it to go into that tree." It's His universe. Thus all bad things, either by accident or evil, trace directly back to Him. God created such perfection, allegedly called Heaven. If he could do it there, why not here too?
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  4221.  @siberiancajun  This brings us directly to homosexuality. Why did our Creator create gay attraction if He was against homosexuality?
    1
  4222.  @siberiancajun  "Good would not exist without it's opposite, yes." Let's go with that. As I just stated, God could have foreseen which people would choose evil, and eliminate them from his creation. In other words, God's all-knowing qualities means he was capable of creating only moral beings like himself. To say that God could not do this is to claim his omnipotence null and void. He is rendered impotent. There's no amount of twisting to save the bible from its inherent contradictions. I'm sure you're familiar with the passage from Leviticus stating that he who curses his parents should be put to death. Does that sound like a loving message?
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  4223. That is one of the truth movements Big Lies. Conversation welcome.
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  4224. TWA flight 800 does indeed contain legitimate question marks. However the truth movement is totally bonkers. No comparison whatever.
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  4225.  @JAdams-y4l  That answer is precisely in keeping with what one expects from truthers. No evidence, just crudely stereotyping everyone who doesn't agree with them and their 2nd rate research skills.
    1
  4226. Trump is 10x worse.
    1
  4227. Operation Twoofer ad infinitum.
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  4228. Bill Demich: I agree that we have become overly hysterical in claiming emotional trauma for every underage encounter, at least for 14 and 15 year olds. That said, it needs to be against the law because the potential for damage is still very high. Other 14-year-olds may have reacted differently or come to realize long lasting harm later. I was also a victim age 12/13. While it was not helpful to me, I don't believe it traumatized me either. But even there, it's hard to know for sure.
    1
  4229.  @mysticnomad3577  I just checked wiki and it appears they raised the age of consent to 16 in 2008, but 14 year olds can consent with people "not more than 5 years" older. So I'm guessing this would still be illegal in Canada. I think the judge should be ashamed herself and thrown off the bench. It's man's inhumanity to man. How can she live with herself? She must be part of the brainwashed generation of feminists whose critical thinking and sense of compassion have been sacrificed to political correctness, or some other mental disorder. Normal people don't behave with such inhumanity.
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  4230.  StopCensorship2-wh3nm  You can't choose something if god didn't create it. That's why you can't choose to flap your arms and fly like a bird. But you still have free will.
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  4231.  StopCensorship2-wh3nm  Gay is an attraction. We don't choose our attractions. Hence the term to "fall in love." We have gone over this kind of stuff a thousand times, and each time you learn nothing. You stick to lower order thinking and reasoning.
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  4232. Because the evidence of a hate crime at this point is speculative.
    1
  4233. We already have overwhelming proof. The question is, why do you fall for the tabloid telemarketing gimmicks of the truth mvt? Anyone with an ounce of sense instantly recognizes the iconic hallmarks of Grand CTism: no peer review, self published, shockingly poor scholarship, more interested in getting signatures than writing science articles (Richard Gage), philosophers and religious professors posing as scientists, -- you name it, it's all here. Flight 93 is the crowning absurdity of all this.
    1
  4234. I would suggest 10-15 years based on the standards of reasonable doubt of intent, and that it may not have been premeditated. Give the benefit of reasonable doubt to everyone, including to racist pigs.
    1
  4235. But I vigorously protest putting the third man, Mr. Bryan, into the same box. He deserves some punishment yes. But his transgressions were not proportional to the other two. For example, he did not set out illegally at first. And he had no intimate knowledge of the Ms plan at pointing guns at AA.
    1
  4236.  @alanmorris7669  In your view yes, in mine no. There is no absolute objective correct answer. The best we can do is evaluate the evidence as thoroughly and fairly as possible.
    1
  4237.  @alanmorris7669  True. And the jury may well find them not all equally guilty. I suspect Bryan, the third man, might be given a somewhat lessor sentence because 1)he did not initiate an illegal chase the way the Ms did. And most importantly 2) he did not conspire to, or have foreknowledge of, the Ms plan to use deadly force and armed assault. To me, these are relevant differences in culpability. Just my views, but I fully respect yours too.
    1
  4238.  @krystjanchanerley9288  That's because the building didn't blow up. So it follows there can be no video of it blowing up. Of course, truthers never stop to ask, why on earth would it help the alleged conspirators to blow up a useless skyscraper 7 hours later?? They dream up things like, "well it must have been the control center." That has to be the dumbest theory on record.
    1
  4239. It just shows how unprepared the government was and how some people cannot imagine the government being incompetent, despite the evidence on an almost daily basis.
    1
  4240. You won't be getting them anytime soon. The world is fast changing, with most Western countries dramatically changing their attitudes in recent decades. The intolerant are becoming more marginalized as sensible people who have got to know gays see that they are just as human as everyone else. Yes, the West should mind its own business. But Uganda has no right to say this and then stick their nose into other people's bedrooms. Double standard. Especially since many want to jail gays for life, or worse, execute them. That's pure barbarism, no better than the West certainly.
    1
  4241. Turns out you don't feel it with the chair, but you may suffer massively with lethal injection.
    1
  4242.  @JohnStedman-d4s  But back-tracking under the existing circumstance was introducing an unnecessary hazard. Even the official report said it was "potentially hazardous." This was towards the end of the back up, and therefore no urgent need to push the Pan Am onto an active runway. But having done so, once the fog came in, you can argue the redundancy factor, especially as there was no ground radar, fell below what paying passengers should expect. Think of how many more "tenerife" type accidents would occur if all take offs were conducted under a similar conditions.
    1
  4243.  @stopcensorship7705  I already did. God was invented by ancient men. No God in His right mind would recommend killing a child who cursed. That's your loving God speaking.
    1
  4244. The death penalty is all but an illusion of justice. Just think about it. It allows the perpetrator to escape all the potential decades he would have experienced locked up. Thus he effectively escapes punishment.
    1
  4245. There is no rational explanation why the government would wish to "crash" a 757 into the middle of nowhere. Kindly explain how that works.
    1
  4246. Indeed he's no longer pushing for the law to be enacted.
    1
  4247.  @carlososler7024  If there's no need for it, why did he sign it into law? LOL
    1
  4248.  @mikeclayton5182  Well that's all I'm saying. I can tolerate intolerance of gays, but advocating life in prion makes the president of Uganda a criminal in my book - crime against humanity, albeit on a smaller scale.
    1
  4249.  Rener Oslo A mind filled with hate is in no position to lecture others.
    1
  4250. But that's what I think people mean when they say one is born gay. Some people probably are predisposed to homosexual attraction.
    1
  4251. Interesting theory if one likes to fantasize.
    1
  4252.  @JongleWongle  The first plane out was flight 11 from Boston. Is that the one you mean?
    1
  4253.  @JongleWongle  You have a lot of facts wrong. The first two planes left from Boston, the third one from Washington DC. There's no proof the planes were switched in midair. There were discernible human remains, some 600 lbs of them positively ID'd by the top forensic pathologists in the country.
    1
  4254. You are a broken record. You keep dwelling on your pet points but won't acknowledge your own lapses. C'mon, admit flight 302 was swallowed hole. You just can't admit to being wrong. That is trutherism for you.
    1
  4255. Yes, what about it?
    1
  4256. The irony is that it was precisely the short sentence that made him into the most reviled rapists in the US. I only have a little sympathy because he gets all the target of this disproportionate rage. Had he received a full one year in jail or more, no one would have heard of Brock Turner.
    1
  4257. "on those flights survived" Is your argument that they could not survive the impact, or that it survived but no one was looking to collect paper debris? BTW only one of the 4 passports was from the world trade center site.
    1
  4258. That's a ridiculously retarded statement.
    1
  4259. I think for the worst type of sex offenders, yes. But for, say, a a high school teacher with weak boundaries who is seduced by her 15 year old student, does she deserve to die?
    1
  4260.  @a.d.r.m.7730  Agree. I think of the devastation a child might experience if her father was executed for having touched her once. The cure might be worse than the disease.
    1
  4261.  @a.d.r.m.7730  I'm all in favor of moderate length prison terms, and they have already shown very low rates of recidivism with house arrest. Without a say at least 5-10 years jail term, it sends the message this behavior is just a sickness but not a serious crime. My main concern is mixing these prisoners with other violent thugs who want to murder them. Why can't we have a prison devoted just to sexual predators? I think for "nonviolent" cases a 5-10 prison term and many decades of house arrest is a nice compromise between making society safe and showing some level of humanity to the perpetrators. Just my thoughts based on a former teacher of mine who faces such a situation right now. I somehow have sympathy for him, but know that his crimes cannot be excused. Some of his victims have mixed feelings about him too. Thanks for your thoughts.
    1
  4262. No proof, keep twoofin.
    1
  4263. Who is you guys?
    1
  4264. I would go a bit further. We know from the study of heuristics (decision making under a deadline) that everyone is subject to the possibility of unconscious error. The fact even basic mistakes can elude conscious awareness is one of the big takeaways of this field, and a very unsettling fact. The present Kim Potter trial may also be relevant here. So 'criminal negligence" may go too far: that IMO should only be the case when there's a deliberate attempt to break the rules. Just MO.
    1
  4265.  @torstenheling3830  I do see that. Mine however is a more basic question, or possibly even criticism with the law. Criminal negligence usually implies (I believe) the actor had the ability to foresee and avoid the risky actions taken. But the field of heuristics says, not necessarily. Such risky or reckless actions may well be beyond conscious control in some cases. Should one be held criminally responsible for errors over which they have no control?
    1
  4266.  @torstenheling3830  Well my main point has been that the research on heuristics explains how even an experienced person can make fundamental mistakes without being aware of it. This is not an insanity defense in the least. Here's a quote on hunting accidents that I think should be required reading for every judge and jury. Although specifically about hunting, it has universal significance: "A golden rule in firearm safety is to identify your target beyond all doubt. Despite this message being constantly repeated, accidents are still occurring. Hunter education and awareness about high visibility clothing have reduced accident rates, but these statistics have since plateaued. Contrary to what most people think, the hunters committing these accidents are often experienced and considered to be safe and competent. Crucially, they often believe they have, 100%, correctly identified their target. Psychology and human factors can provide insight into how these situations might occur. When interpreting information, we rely heavily upon mental rules of thumb called heuristics. Heuristics operate outside of our conscious awareness and are utilised even more in stressful or emotionally charged situations. However, they can also make us susceptible to cognitive biases which may lead us astray—we underestimate the impact heuristics will have on our decisions. Attempts to manage heuristics and cognitive biases are often futile because we normally cannot detect them when they occur. Hunters are constantly told that they need to treat every sound or movement as human in an attempt to change their mind-set. However, given the difficulty in detecting cognitive biases, it is unlikely a hunter’s conscious management of heuristics would be consistently possible in the long term." Translation: common sense needs some serious updating!!
    1
  4267.  @torstenheling3830  Fair enough. I am not saying their should not be liability, just no criminal liability. In the US, there's already a tacit admission of heuristics. I don't think even Van Zanten's mistake would be classified as criminal liability. Going back over many NTSB final reports over the years, pilots are almost never personally held criminally negligent, or subject to jail for the mistakes they make under the pressure of an evolving emergency. This is another way of saying, under stress and deadlines, it's not appropriate to regard mistakes as criminal in nature. What VD did may not have been criminal but the result of mishearing, or as Mentour Pilot notes, the interpretation of Meurs' request as a request for both clearances. Not very convincing perhaps, but not beyond reason. There's a fascinating case of the LH Airbus at Heathrow many years ago where both pilots were convinced they had heard a non-existent take of clearance. So much so they radioed ATC to let them know it was not a good idea to have been given clearance! I also recommend reading the final report on the CP-Air DC-8 near disaster in Sydney, when all the crew felt they had heard instructions that bore no resemblance to what was actually said. In Europe and other places, they are much bigger on jailing people for mistakes under pressure. In the US the industry has evolved to see that this is not in the best interest of safety.
    1
  4268.  @torstenheling3830  Thank you for your replies. I'm not trying to take responsibility away from VZ. He certainly was the main cause of the crash. But I get the sense you are almost saying VZ deliberately flouted the rules. I don't think that's what you mean, is it?
    1
  4269. Hmm, I didn't see your post re Dan Air, I assume this was the 1980 event? . But it's my impression that one has no business flying through cloud unless monitored by ground radar. So, all parties involved were culpable. If I am wrong, please correct my impression
    1
  4270. Yes, just like snooping Ugandans want to tell gays how to live. Failure of the Golden Rule if there ever was.
    1
  4271.  @yugaeimthicc6400  Not being genetic does not = choice. There is, for example, the prenatal hormonal theory of homosexuality. The science is still unsettled. The prevailing evidence is that one is either born with, or reared into, or a combination of both, one's sexual orientation. Once you are 4 or 5 years old, these matters are basically fixed for most people, as are most personalty traits, tendencies, and temperaments. It's like handedness. There's no single gene for being a lefty, but there's no doubt it's not a conscious choice. I can speak with absolute confidence. As a gay man, I have tried all my life to be heterosexual and failed. The scientific evidence is very persuasive that people, except for bisexuals of course, cannot change these base orientations. This has been proven again and again by the near complete failure of psychiatry, and also of so called conversion therapy, to change people's basic attractions. The Christian ministries cannot pass scientific muster, and one by one most of these "ex-gay" ministers who ran the programs have recanted. I don't know what more proof one would need. I do not go for typical "gay behavior." That's not my thing any more than it is for most people. But to deny me one the most basic prerequisites for being fulfilled is unacceptable. If you come to know a lot of gay people, you may find we are no less human than you, and less decent as people.
    1
  4272.  @stopcensorship7705  "Hormonal imbalances can be fixed." So if it's due to hormonal imbalance, then by definition I did not choose my attraction. Are we on the same page so far? edit: What makes you so much fun is how you unwittingly self-refute your own claims. By definition, a hormonal imbalance is not chosen. Apparently the irony goes right over your head.
    1
  4273.  @stopcensorship7705  Then you should have no problem finding me a hormonal clinic that can cure my gay attraction. I await your recommendation.
    1
  4274.  @stopcensorship7705  I am not denying that hormonal levels can be changed. So I am NOT missing THAT point. The problem is, you can't get to the NEXT logical step: Even if non-immutable hormonal imbalance is the cause of gay attraction, BY DEFINITION choice is not the cause of gay attraction. Don't you get it?
    1
  4275. AD is guilty of many things, but not plagiarism. Since there is nothing original by Peters' in her quotes of Mark Twain; and since AD cites Twain, there is nothing original to steal. At best, NF is using a non-standard definition of plagiarism that flies in the face of the commonly accepted definition.
    1
  4276. Because not all sensible people agree with you?
    1
  4277. Hard to say.
    1
  4278. But not jailed for life, as he wanted.
    1
  4279. I have to just say, though I am not from New Zealand, that everyone thinks they know "the truth." But the fact is, there are still two very polarized sides to this crash, and no one to my knowledge, certainly not Justice Mahon, has ever definitively resolved these competing claims. Neither side wants to give as much as an inch, and I think it's a shame that therefore the public still has to make up their mind if they are going to side with the Mahon report, or what might be termed "the pilot's view": If you go to a place like PPRuNe, the pre-eminent commercial pilot forum, there has been rigorous debate, and most pilots seem to have some issues with the Mahon report, with quite a few going overboard perhaps. If you have any thoughts on this, please feel free to share them. Because I feel the public has never been made aware of legitimate issues, and the lack of a definitive analysis of the continuing debate bothers me. Thanks
    1
  4280.  @davidthompson8625  Because it's a self serving statement. Everyone fancies themselves more intelligent and less gullible than most. Rather than just go by what one senses, why not do real truth digging. What I personally find is that 911 skeptics often do not do what I would call "thinking like a scientist." A great example of that concerns the cell phone calls. So here's a test. Have you studied the cell call issue? And have you erroneously concluded, like many skeptics, that the calls were impossible? If so we can go over this and determine why it's erroneous. If you'd care to that is. That's just one example of many where truthers continually get it wrong. cheers
    1
  4281.  @trendynow1369  Well anything's possible, but would it make any logical sense for Silverstein to come on national TV and blurt out the plot? This is bordering on the absurd, a common feature of 911 "skeptical" thinking I have found. In addition, to continue where Tim left off, in the demolition industry "pulled" is a term that refers to pulling down the remains of a building. It's not a term that has anything to do with explosives. Finally, let's look at context. Silverstein said the decision was made to pull because of such loss of life. This makes sense in terms of getting everyone away from a building that was no longer safe to be in. It makes no sense as a demolition term. When was the last time you heard of a demolition company that blew up a building in order to save lives? Discuss.
    1
  4282. Don't think it's quite that. Do you believe they started chasing him expecting to kill him in advance??
    1
  4283.  @Jartran72  It's just speculation. They may have grabbed the guns because they believed he was armed, as Greg McMichael had stated when he previously encountered him (or whom he believed to be the same person.) We live in an armed country unfortunately. I have a friend in Florida who valets for a living. He says most of the cars have guns in them. It proves next to nothing. The only thing we can say with certainty aside from there being a shooting is that it was reckless endangerment. And racism probably played a major role. Certainly you or I would be unable to prove premeditation in a court of law.
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  4284. Maybe his supporters should too. Aiding and abetting is also criminal.
    1
  4285. The only problem is, why on earth would the government need to fake a crash in an empty field in the middle of nowhere? This is further evidence how many posters cannot grasp the Big Picture.
    1
  4286.  @stopcensorship7705  Maybe so, but you never present evidence or links to the science. Since all this is a bit over your head I wouldn't expect you're up to the task. But you never know. Surprise me.
    1
  4287.  @stopcensorship7705  "the evidence is clear, your feelings are not up to the task of being presented facts." Awkward sentence structure. Please rewrite.
    1
  4288.  @stopcensorship7705  Still kind of awkward writing style. Don't you want to express yourself better?
    1
  4289.  @stopcensorship7705  "cope with awkwardness groomer." Oh, I have no problem with it. I was just trying to help you.
    1
  4290. Better than the truth movement's Big Lie that cell phone calls aloft were impossible that day.
    1
  4291.  @ajm5007  "I'm willing to change my mind when confronted by rational argumentation..." Well I've given you some in my above quote on hunting accidents and heuristics.
    1
  4292.  @ajm5007  It's the 12 reply down, right between Hoodrich's and your reply to him.
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  4293.  @ajm5007  Well that is weird, but no surprise given Youtube's view of its users as basically animals, to be insulted, mocked and ignored at every turn. I'll post again and see if you get it this time.
    1
  4294. It's now at the flight 93 memorial site.
    1
  4295. It's also not much of a challenge to caricature your opponents position and not acknowledge the layers of complexity in the debate. It doesn't matter what you call it: baby, fetus. In normal conversation, baby means: "a very young child, especially one newly or recently born." Straight out of the dictionary. The assumption embryos are babies is ONE way to look at it. It prejudges the argument to assume that unambiguously includes embryos. There are many other questions, chief among them, what is the moral status of a an embryo? How do you know it has the same rights as you and me? Prove it please.
    1
  4296. ​ @mogdor  The destruction of any and all forms of "human life" is only a problem if we unrealistically think that all forms of human life have the moral status of you and me. It's that simple. Here's another question: is having a brain 100% irrelevant to the value we put on human life?
    1
  4297.  @mogdor  I guess we don't have the same morals on some level. If my parents decided not to have kids, I would have also been deprived of my life. The outcome is exactly the same as an abortion : no me. So why is that also not a violation of my right to life? I think these things are worth discussing to see where, if any, there may be opportunities to see agreement or, or at least find some common ground. cheers
    1
  4298.  @mogdor  "The fact that you put "human life" in quotes like that shows me you simply don't share the same morals as me. I don't justify depriving an innocent human of their right to life just because of the stage of development they're at. You do." If this was your last post, then I saw it. I've noticed I find my posts disappearing, then reappearing again. Especially if I choose the "sort by most recent" option, then the full thread will appear. YouTube is so screwed up. And to think it has been part of Google all these years, they can't even design a decent discussion forum. Shameful.
    1
  4299. But many have never killed anyone.
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  4300. In a court of law, you would loose big time. Because in a court of law, they go by evidence. Not fantasies of the brain dead.
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  4301. I agree in theory. But I think in practice slaughtering or torturing criminals legitimizes violence and may make society worse.
    1
  4302.  @robie_zoeyes7716  And common sense here is that this was an accident. The trial was about turning speculation into certainty. This violated due process. When we can't prove consciously reckless conduct, we are guessing. And even 5 years in jail should not be the result of speculation. Just my tentative thoughts, so anyone reading this, please don't accuse me of being unopen to other points of view.
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  4303.  @robie_zoeyes7716  I don't know absolutely. But it's common sense. Sensible people are in agreement that it was not deliberate. When we become so obsessed by police brutality and racism, our better judgement often goes off the deep end. To always assume the worst of people is the dark side of humanity. And goes squarely against due process which demands proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
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  4304.  @robie_zoeyes7716  "Do you realize that there’s two sides of the coin, right?" Did you read my post carefully? I wrote above: "Just my tentative thoughts, so anyone reading this, please don't accuse me of being unopen to other points of view." I correctly anticipated someone might go after me for this. Please read more carefully. Thanks.
    1
  4305.  @robie_zoeyes7716  "Are you trying to make me see what you call “common sense” as Undeniable? " Here you go making yet more assumptions. A conversation is a conversation. I'm not trying to make you do anything. Maybe what's driving you and many others is the assumption an experienced officer could not make such a mistake. But the research shows otherwise. The field of study is known as heuristics, just in case you want to look it up. It shows that when under a deadline or stress, even very experienced people are subject to unconscious error, meaning the error cannot be detected as it happens. This should be considered a revelation, and IMO should be included in every jury handbook and plastered on the side of every courthouse. This goes against common sense, but this merely shows our "common sense" is not always a good guide to reality. Common sense needs to be updated once in a while, and here I am only giving you my opinion.
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  4306. Apparently she complained increasingly of major symptoms but blamed them on meds.
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  4307. He took the credit, and he did deserve some. But in reality he was also to blame by not better preparing the city. The antiquated "handie-talkies" were "a scandal." They had 8 years after 1993 to get better radios that could be used between police and the FDNY. Giluini turned a blind eye to repeated calls to upgrade fire standards and building codes. He failed to prepare, failed to integrate the police/fire departments, repeatedly ignored advice WTC-7 was vulnerable to attack. Source: Grand Illusion by Barrett/Collins
    1
  4308. Yes, the sensible thing is to provisionally believe that most women are telling the truth until counter evidence is found.
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  4309. I would say guilty, but not premeditated 1st degree.
    1
  4310. "Go Ben!" Why are you for someone who's wrong on this issue?
    1
  4311. The DC-10 seems almost saintly compared to the MAX.
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  4312. Well the choice was Biden, or an unhinged psychopath. It's that simple.
    1
  4313. I understand the anger and rage at men. But there have always been decent and moral men, even if they are in the minority. Whatever excuses, a sweeping indictment aimed at all men is an example of woman's inhumanity to man. It's also a slap in the face to all the women who love their men, who cherish their sons. Please, we must avoid using the totally valid anger of the moment - this or any other, to slam all males.
    1
  4314. I agree the negative attention was out of proportion to just two crashes. However, this video feeds the common perception it wasn't design related. But it clearly was. The NTSB included in its probable cause statement the failure of the slat system. As with the Paris disaster, a door or in this case, an engine, coming off should not normally bring down a plane. It was this lack of design redundancy that brought don both planes, though to a lesser degree in the Chicago crash.
    1
  4315. It's in our hardwiring. Blame God, He hardwired us, if you believe in Him.
    1
  4316.  @adaptwt8250  I think the petition to charge the mom was also driven by people who detest human beings in general. They think humans are destroying the planet, so let's stick it to them. Maybe a cover for racism too.
    1
  4317. Indeed, it's primarily coders who put forth the idea of machine sentience. As a class, these, the MOST uncreative individuals in the computer business, who fancy themselves smarter than the rest of us. They are the ones constantly telling us "that can't be built," and now they tell us machines are conscious !!!
    1
  4318. I'm afraid not. Yes, I think everyone knows this is deplorable. BUT, not everyone seems to realize how horrific the emotional damage can be. That's probably one reason why some people I know have not expressed nearly as much outrage. They don't completely get it. If they don't, then it shouldn't be so mysterious why some pedo types don't fully get it either.
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  4319. That is the most juvenile theory to have come from the truth movement. Why was hope needed? Anymore than say, dancing lessons? The idea of the attack, government or otherwise, was to scare the living crap out of people, not cheer them up!!!!!!! I don't know what grade your in, but this is not Alice in Wonderland. Governments don't hijack planes to make people feel good! It's an astoundingly stupid notion. And more importantly, there is not even a sliver of evidence to back it up. Like I said before, you have no credibility. And that's why no one cares about your posts.
    1
  4320. As you hinted towards the end, the super big jets coming back may also have something to do with the sex appeal factor and the symbolic as well. A recent article suggests this is why 747s flew for so much longer than they were economically profitable. So maybe "the Concord factor" applies here?
    1
  4321. Why is it so important to hate gays?
    1
  4322.  @مصعب-خ8ه  I hate to break it to you, but homosexuality is not necessarily a behavior. For example, do you think gay women behave the way gay men do? Or do women simply not count in your moral calculus ?
    1
  4323. Even so, its overall safety record was not greatly affected, as shown by a safety record in the same ballpark as the other widebodies of its time.
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  4324. Even granting the evil of the US government, if you are trying to say flight 93 didn't happen as stated, kindly provide evidence of what did happen. There is really no theory that makes flight 93 work as a false flag, as it was an utterly useless crash, irrelevant to the goals of the alleged perpetrators.
    1
  4325.  @anitalusk3165  Well I agree on that. And so should the truth movement.
    1
  4326. She made a mistake that NO ONE is completely immune to. To giver her any sentence is to outlaw being human.
    1
  4327. Grownups have better things to do than obsess over who sleeps with whom.
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  4328.  @mdjb49  I am not making the case for legal self-defense.
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  4329.  @mdjb49  Not directed at you per se. I know this is YoutTube. But I'm still a little surprised that everywhere I post, no one seems able to grasp the existence of reasonable doubt in this case. Or even its possibility. What is up with that? Is it really that challenging?
    1
  4330.  @mdjb49  Thank you for replying. I have a somewhat lengthy reply. So if you don’t have the time, no worries. But if you do, here it is. It's possible I'm missing something, but so far I'm not seeing it. -"Why do you not understand self defense...unarmed ...man" I do see it, and I agree with you. But I am talking about malice murder, not the fact that Arbery is the real victim. That is a different issue altogether. What is reasonable doubt? It’s never explicitly defined by anyone. But I tend to go by a simple test. Can you imagine a non-fanciful scenario that supports the accused? In this case it’s to me blindingly self-evident, and here it is. Travis could well have shot Arbery not out of malice, but the fact that Arbery not only ran up to the truck, but actually turned left to confront Travis. Now, if someone charges you, or grabs your gun, or tries to grab your gun -- none of which can be confidently ruled out – you might simply shoot instinctively as a reflex to protect yourself. That is reasonable doubt. Please note again I am not making a case for LEGAL self-defense. The defendants’ reckless behavior still resulted in a death. That means at a minimum manslaughter or 3rd degree murder. As for Bryan or Roddie, this is even more blunt than reasonable doubt. We are talking here about BASIC justice. In principle, most people would agree the you should only get the maximum penalty for the maximum crime. But here we have a man who did not even approach the standard of 1st degree murder. Not even close. This shows to me how many people have a hard time thinking for themselves. Part of this was the felony murder rule, which is in violent conflicts with basic justice. So his verdict was an outrage. But that said, I tend to have little sympathy for racist pigs. This is what drove this entire trial- emotional disgust rather than the principles of due process. Not saying you should or shouldn’t agree with me, but I hope you can at least see why my position is well within the bounds of a sensible discussion. For the record would say about 20 years in jail for the Ms and not more than 5 for Roddie would be about right. But the racist hysteria of the moment has resulted in these men being turned into the very symbol of the entire history of white southern racism, vigilantism and lynching. It’s payback time, which is driven by emotion, not principles of justice. Just my speculation. cheers
    1
  4331.  @mdjb49  Thank you for taking the time to read my long posts. Brevity is not one of my strengths. My goal is not to excuse the crime they committed. It is to scrupulously apply the due process clause in our justice system. Let me try to get right to the chase (no pun implied.) We can agree that malice, on some level, existed. But that doesn't by itself rule out that Travis might ALSO have reacted instinctively out of fear when Arbery suddenly turned left and ran right into him. So theory A: Travis shoots out of malice Theory B: He shoots out of instinctive fear The jury has failed to explain why B is not also a reasonable scenario. I offer you that challenge,
    1
  4332.  @mdjb49  (PS, why would I have recommended a 20 year prison term if I were trying to excuse them?)
    1
  4333.  @mdjb49  Just a final comment. Ask yourself, would Travis have shot Arbery had Arbery NOT turned to confront/attack Travis? This gets to the crux of the issue. If you cannot produce a cogent proof that Arbery STILL would have been shot, then you have failed to acknowledge reasonable doubt.
    1
  4334.  @mdjb49  "....that is the crux of the matter. " I would say no in this discussion, because the topic I am speaking to is solely about reasonable doubt. In this context, we are not concerned with what Arbery did, or him being justified in acting as he did. I believe he was also justified. That is not the issue here. "You are focused on the single act of Arbery who was reasonably defending himself." No no. I am focused on TRAVIS and his state of mind when he pulled the trigger. Very different focus. "Travis is seen kneeling and aiming at Arbery." Absolutely, I agree. But there's reasonable doubt here too because he may have simply tried to intimidate Arbery into stopping. You might ask, if his intent was malice, why didn't he shoot him then and there? Why not two minutes before? Why did he wait until Arbery ran right into him? That's a clear cut case of you not considering those other possibilities. The fact he WAITED until Arbery chose to turn right into him, justifiably or not, is ample reason to doubt. I would agree there was absolutely malice in this event, if we mean by that, a general lack of goodwill, or yelling out a threat to kill him. But it's only provable in the Ms behavior before the shooting. The reasonable doubt that needs to be confronted is the fact that the shot was fired at the exact moment Arbery turned and ran into Travis. Are you saying that's pure coincidence? I hope you see the point.
    1
  4335.  @mdjb49  And finally, let me make this even more blatant. Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that had Arbery continued running past the truck, that he would still have been shot? That's what you need to prove to in order to rule out Travis' intent being one of instinctive reflex when suddenly being confronted.
    1
  4336.  @mdjb49  "You, Chris, have not proven anything." I'm not trying to be accusatory. I'm not trying to take the moral high ground. I think we should be able to treat disagreements in a respectful way. If I sounded too aggressive, I'm sorry, it's unintended. You have been a very good sport. I will have at least one more comment, but I don't insist that you continue or reply. Entirely up to you. Thank you. "can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Travis’ intent was not with malice? " No, not beyond doubt. But this gets things backwards. "Reasonable doubt" is one of the foundations of due process, and it applies ONLY to the accused. The plaintiff has the burden of proof. NOT the accused! Just ask any lawyer, or the judge himself. This is the whole point of the due process clause. It's because we as a society find that it's much more egregious to have an innocent person jailed - especially for life -- , than to have a criminal go free. Thus the protections for the accused are set higher. Imagine if you were in the hot seat, and were accused of rape. You would want that due process in place, wouldn't you? It's also just basic to justice. If someone makes an accusation, the burden of proof rests with them, not you. If we can't see eye to eye on the basics, then the details are not going to get us back on track. That's just how I see it, and I could be wrong. If you would like to concede this point, great. Otherwise let's leave it at that. Thank you again for being a good sport.
    1
  4337. Hatred garners much respect throughout the world.
    1
  4338.  StopCensorship4---2.0  "Groomers mad." Well that must mean you are mad. After all you are the only one who's a proven groomer.
    1
  4339. That gays could destroy the world is BS in its most potent form. And you probably believe it too.
    1
  4340. It can hardly hold a candle to Mr. Trump's lack of consideration for others over the years.
    1
  4341. Wrong
    1
  4342.  @supermanepic15  Yes, why do the truthers keep repeating these lies?
    1
  4343. I don't defend them, but I find many Democrats can't handle legitimate disagreement either. The real truth my lie somewhere in the middle. And certainly, Roddie's life sentence is up for a sensible discussion.
    1
  4344. What would you do if you had gay attraction?
    1
  4345. Reflex reaction. If someone unexpectedly grabs your gun, it's a self=preservation instinct. The longer answer is, we see that Travis aimed his gun at Arbery several seconds before he even got to the truck. This is assault with a dangerous weapon. It no doubt prompted Arbery to grab it to protect himself.
    1
  4346.  @ViViDG  Agreed. We will probably never know exactly what motivated them. Maybe it was racism combined with having a very aggressive/vigilante personality type. Some people are naturally "bad" to go by good old fashion terminology. Reckless, bad judgement, prone to impulsive rage. Who knows.
    1
  4347. So you would have us believe the government chose to embrace false physics so that any 9th grader could unravel the plot in 2 seconds. Even the government is not as stupid as you.
    1
  4348. If his people are lucky enough to not end up in one of the body bags of his security forces.
    1
  4349. Common sense: seems to elude most.
    1
  4350. Not as fake as the King of lies
    1
  4351. Brainwashed by the truth mvt as usual.
    1
  4352. Isn't it obvious? If you had a gun in your hand and someone turned right into you and grabbed at it, you might instinctively shoot too. Look, I understand the real criminals are the McMichaels. They are guilty for creating the whole situation. But for goodness sake, how difficult is it to figure out that Travis shot at PRECISELY the moment Arbery changed course, turning to his left, and running right into him? cheers
    1
  4353. You are not qualified to vote.
    1
  4354. Not only that, he is.
    1
  4355. Same Trump. Republicans are growing sicker of him by the droves.
    1
  4356. What aren't you buying? That he's a twisted psychopath?
    1
  4357. No, this is wrong. You have amputated the context. I agree with you the malice murder verdict ignored due process. BUT, there is no question the Ms acted with recklessness, proven by the following three events: -they did not have the authority to do a citizen's arrest -Greg: "stop or I'll blow your F-n head off," an outrageous and assaultive comment. -Travis: while still some 30 or more feet away, Travis aimed his loaded weapon at Arbery. That's called armed assault, and if Arbery were armed, he would have had a right to shoot him dead on the spot. Thus these men created a needless and unjustified hazard. You simply cannot ignore that and claim "rational thought." My only disagreement is characterizing the shooting as malice murder. But they were guilty of at least manslaughter. Nice try.
    1
  4358. Was the courageous part the ruling against the drug, or his suspension of immediate enforcement?
    1
  4359. Every time a body hit the pavement, firefighters said it sounded like an explosion.
    1
  4360. But to be totally fair, not even the greenest of the green predicted it would happen this fast. What's happened just in the last 10 years is off the charts worse than the worst predictions. Maybe we will find a solution, but not even Ray Kurweil and his singularity techno futurist followers have proposed any radical solutions. And of the 22 or so proposed climate repair schemes, all have been found to be worse than the disease itself.
    1
  4361. Me too, and for the Truth mvt too, and all its foisting of pure trash onto these forums hour after hour.
    1
  4362. How sick to be supporting a madman.
    1
  4363. Science to you means the complete and total refusal to cite science papers. That's been your record in these parts.
    1
  4364.  @gaming4life788  He's in love with intolerance. That's what makes him tick.
    1
  4365.  @stopcensorship7705  I'm wondering if you can help. Since you believe gay attraction is chosen, and I'm not sexually attracted to women, despite always wanting to, could you suggest how I might be able to choose this?
    1
  4366.  @stopcensorship7705  Why did God create gay attraction if He is against gay attraction?
    1
  4367. Maybe you're right. One can only go so far in trying to persuade people to mind their own business. Kenya has a water crisis, a poverty crisis. It shouldn't be wasting valuable resources going after gays. Mature and well adjusted people in an enlightened culture do not obsess over gays or support persecution of what happens inside the privacy of the bedroom. It's none of your damn business. That's a cultural defect in Kenya.
    1
  4368. Yes, it is a human life from the perspective of biology. But it's moral status is open to legitimate question.
    1
  4369. Even without dominator culture, unless we find a way to genetically alter ourselves, there will always be some rape and war. Humans are hardwired for violence, period. Men more so than women to be sure.
    1
  4370. We do know the truth. Maybe not with 100% ontological certitude, but in practical terms, the evidence just isn't there.
    1
  4371. Where does he mention swiss cheese model? He made it very clear the lack of an AD was a major cause of the crash.
    1
  4372. It's important to be informed, but this past history is ultimately irrelevant. Because either way, the McMichaels' broke the law: they were pursuing a citizen's arrest based on a "hunch," to use the defendants' word. That's out of bounds, period, exclamation point.
    1
  4373.  @jockoharpo2622  Why would a shill be hanging out on an accident investigation video having nothing to do with 911? The other flaw in your case is the implied notion that aluminum can't cut steel. But it doesn't have to. It only need cause the joists holding the beams together to fail. That doesn't require aluminum literally tearing through steel.
    1
  4374.  @jockoharpo2622  And let's see your physics proving a 767 could not penetrate the twin towers. I'm all ears.
    1
  4375.  @jockoharpo2622  The vid proves zero. Sure, you don't have to prove anything. But I thought, I'm giving you an opportunity to make a silly theory look convincing.
    1
  4376. Crime is out of control, America is pathetic. But there was no stolen election. And the fact you can't find even a scrap of proof shows that Lunatic Trump is part of the problem. He loves lies. And violence.
    1
  4377. The only problem with your theory is that flight 93 was unnecessary to the alleged conspirators. If it was unnecessary, then it was unnecessary to fake it. Flight 93 is an irrelevant footnote, providing only a feel-good, mid-air personal drama. No government in its right mind is going to fake a useless crash like this. Big picture thinking is what's missing from much of the truth mvt.
    1
  4378. For the benefit of the ignorant, what do you mean by a "4th and long situation"? Thanks
    1
  4379.  @gonefishin4802  OK, that explains it, I am not much of a football fan. And do tell us what the only word to describe her would be. Does it begin with the letter B by any chance?
    1
  4380.  @gonefishin4802  Well that's mild actually, but there does not exist a word that does it justice. !!
    1
  4381. Which is all irrelevant anyway because it was not his job to check the peep hole.
    1
  4382. Thinking Bogota Tokyo, is within range, but how big is the market?
    1
  4383. And eerily too both MAX crashes together totaled exactly 346 deaths, same as this crash.
    1
  4384.  @GeneseeBen  Elvis stole them.
    1
  4385. No proof. Which is probably why you believe it.
    1
  4386. @Pennywise the clown Keri and Veena's father Yes, and that's a good point. It also may just well be the case that it's not a one-size-fits all. Perhaps some gays are able to change but others cannot. I've always pointed out that the very existence of so-called gay conversion therapy is in conflict with the model of choice. If gay were always a choice, there would be no market for the therapy. And upon closer scrutiny, such therapy has turned out to have an abysmally poor record. When queried in detail, it turns out the people who claimed to change were just changing their behavior, not their attractions, which still remained. It all came to a head about 20 years ago when one by one, the heads of these ministries, so-called ex-gay ministers, began to recant by the droves. All of this just confirms what many gays like me have known all along. We did not make a conscious choice to be attracted to our own sex. Yet that's exactly what many deeply religious people believe. Who are they to think they can read my mind? Arrogance has always been a prerogative of the self-righteous.
    1
  4387.  @stopcensorship7705  There is no skin color gene. So blacks chose to be black.
    1
  4388.  @stopcensorship7705  There is no single "skin color gene." That is the correct analogy. This further confirms you inability to keep on point.
    1
  4389. @Stop Censorship's Mom Don't worry my dear, I don't hold you accountable. Teenage rebellion takes many forms.
    1
  4390.  @JonathanAnthonyAltieri  SC only believes in selective evidence.
    1
  4391. "they melted the steels with termite devices" I never knew termites also feed on steel.
    1
  4392. But there was no burglary here. So moot point.
    1
  4393. And those are words of a Loving infinitely wise Being, right? Obsessed with killing.
    1
  4394.  @nihilisticotaku7907  The verse is right above. Those are not the words of a loving Being.
    1
  4395.  @nihilisticotaku7907  What is the correct translation?
    1
  4396.  @nihilisticotaku7907  Very interesting, thanks. Would there be a scholarly consensus on that? That's even worse than I thought. To wish death upon the boy too makes Him doubly cruel. Are there no passages at all then about adult homosexuality or "gay sex" of any kind?
    1
  4397.  @maggiemae6867  Not all of them. Many believe it's not OK from conception on.
    1
  4398.  @peterjv8748  The big lie here is the truther blackout (with one exception it seems) of all the firemen - dozens of them - who were warned of a possible collapse hours before. And the view of the south facade with smoke pouring out of it. This is taboo on truther sites. So when the BBC made a typical media error (recall Pope John Paul 2's widely expected death reported a day before it happened) the truth mvt, having no sense of how reality actually works, can't think outside of their own silly conspiratorial box. They are like fish out of water. They are not suited, in general, to serious research. So of course they act as if this was a big revelation rather than the mundane mistake it most likely was.
    1
  4399.  @shillhunter2.076  Yah, how are we supposed to make a living? I mean it's only logical the government needed to pay us for obscure youtube threads that no one but crazy people look at.
    1
  4400.  @shillhunter2.076  And where the truthers do a better job than any of us shills could ever hope to match, in making themselves look astoundingly stupid. I leave it to you guys to continue driving sensible people away from the truth mvt by the droves. Actually, the government should be paying you instead. Mental instability at its finest.
    1
  4401. "Who believes this crap?" Everyone who thinks for more than two seconds. Upon which one realizes the government gains nothing by "crashing" a plane into the middle of nowhere.
    1
  4402.  @johnmas9221  And accountability in this case should be a civil issue, not a criminal one. There's no proof she acted criminally. But even if there were, that doesn't automatically warrant jail time. This case has seemed to sway people because it's cops and race. if it were, say, a doctor with a perfect record causing death from a single mistake, we wouldn't usually rush to jail them. Otherwise we would be jailing everyone for every single mistake they make. Do we want to go that route in society? In a country where lawyers are out of control, it's hardly surprising this is we seem to be going. Under the ideal rule of lawyers, there would be no such thing as an honest mistake.
    1
  4403.  @johnmas9221  I've given you a pass. So don't worry. We all get get it wrong sometimes.
    1
  4404.  @Westberg246  That's open to some argument. The wording in the statute can be interpreted differently. But I let that go as we've discussed it to death. What astounded me most is the defense bringing up the examples of airline pilots and doctors. Could I be forgiven for thinking he had read my comments? Probably just coincidence - OR, maybe I think too much like a lawyer. I wasn't too impressed by either side's closing statements. Gray was confusing if not incompetent. Outrageous he blamed the victim for his own death. Eldridge was far more effective, and I predict will win the jury over. But in her gratuitous excess, hyperbole and ridiculous straw men, she is a typical lawyer at heart: cold, calculating, uncharitable. I am glad I am not in this ugly profession.
    1
  4405.  @Westberg246  Thank you too for a fine conversation, forced me to rethink things. Are you getting that annoying dot dot dot where it should say "show more"? ? It's very annoying, just try refreshing page. You're not missing much, just my opinionated take on things!
    1
  4406.  @theduck1539  What would you do if you were gay?
    1
  4407. @@elisabethstriffler With that I totally agree. Or even an eight year old.
    1
  4408. Turkish air also must bear significant responsibility for the crash.
    1
  4409. That's true. They are ignorant about how Youtube attracts the morally depraved like needles to a magnet.
    1
  4410. Maybe in Uganda and other hateful places. But not in most of the West.
    1
  4411. You can partly blame the airlines too. That pic is from the 1970s, when 747s had 9-across in coach and about 34 inches seat pitch (distance between rows.) Later, they put in 10 across, reduced seat pitch to 30", make you pay for food, if any, but still want to sell you alcohol and make you stand in long security lines. The 777 is even narrower but they still insist on 10 across. So passengers respond in kind, and dress for a bus.
    1
  4412.  @ac9110  Yes, general decline in manners and class. That includes the TV shows, the comedy (wouldn't it be nice to have a Dean Martin Show again,) the music, the language, kids swearing normalized by today's parents, and on down the list. A general sense of narcissism (thank you Facebook) and entitlement. But it's also interesting that many basic standards of decency have improved at the same time: the so-called expanding circle of morality, including less tolerance for animal suffering, calling out sexual misconduct, more gains by women, campaign against spanking (OK, that last one is more controversial.) This seems paradoxical to me. Sorry to get carried away there.
    1
  4413. While one can't have 100% safety, looking more and more to me that bunk deck should never have been certified as safe. Given all the other overkill of regulations everywhere else, this seems like a pretty serious hazard.
    1
  4414. Apparently Dauber has been responsible for the distortion that Persky was only lenient towards white privileged males. It was subsequently shown he was all around lenient to people of color too. Consider also the victim herself who stated " he doesn’t need to be behind bars." Was her statement immoral too?
    1
  4415. The exact quote i come up with is "A. The probation officer interviewed the 23-year-old woman on May 3 and quoted her as saying she preferred Turner receive counseling: "I don't want him to feel like his life is over and I don't want him to rot away in jail; he doesn't need to be behind bars." If this is a mistake that's floating around the internet, I stand corrected. If not, then my quote is accurate. So if she's allowed to have a point of view contrary to what some others are saying, then perhaps we need to be a bit less dogmatic about the whole thing. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but the idea that there's no room for a victim's sentiments or even some compassion/leniency on a case by case basis doesn't necessarily mean one doesn't take sexual assault seriously. That's all I'm saying. I think his sentence was too lenient BTW, but whether we should do judicial recall in this case is in a grey area from my point of view.
    1
  4416. There's just no substance to what he is saying. It's just speculation by someone who isn't particularly qualified to speak on the subject.
    1
  4417.  @اسفعلىالاساءةنبهنيلأمسح  Anyone who's informed on the subject is qualified. Coming myself from a family with a neurseugon in it, I can tell you definitively that the subject requires absolutely zero training in mental health. They are too completely different specialties. Would you go to a neurosurgeon to talk to about your depression? Your sexual life? A moment's reflection is all it takes to see that.
    1
  4418.  @joeguiffre7564  Well that's hard to say. Training to be a neurosurgeon doesn't require a degree in mental health and you'll probably find as many differences on this subject among neurosurgeons as among people in general. Your argument is a a misapplied appeal to authority. Common logical error.
    1
  4419. Gay is an attraction first and foremost. And like all attractions, we are not the makers of them.
    1
  4420.  @Angelum_Band  Why are you not ashamed of trolling Youtube?
    1
  4421.  @stopcensorship7705  "choose normal attraction" Can't be done. Attractions aren't chosen. Did you choose your favorite color?
    1
  4422. What do you expect from a man who kept reading My Pet Goat even after the 2nd plane hit.
    1
  4423. He knew something, but no proof he knew the details.
    1
  4424. Absolutely. What makes these wild fantasies even more preposterous is the premise that crashing a 757 into the middle of nowhere makes more sense than crashing into a real target. This is schi-ophrenia at its finest: having three planes target people, but inexplicably STOPPING the 4th. This is just another example of truthers failing to see the Big Picture.They cannot connect the dots for the life of them.
    1
  4425. More likely he'll be murdered in prison.
    1
  4426. But the irony there is, he and Kenyans should also mind their own business. Why does that apply to countries but not to individuals?
    1
  4427.  @jamgrl38  Had Arbery been white, and Bryan black, would you still feel the same way?
    1
  4428.  @jamgrl38  It shouldn't. But in this case, I believe it did, resulting in sentences out of proportion to the crime. In principle would you give someone a life sentence when they had no intent to kill, and did not himself kill, and honestly (though stupidly) assumed his neighbor had a valid reason to chase someone? I always thought life sentences should be reserved for worst case crimes. No?
    1
  4429.  @jamgrl38  No, you cannot make assumptions when there's reasonable doubt. There's no solid proof Bryan was trying to kill Arbery. He may have ended up knocking him down, which is a very serious offense. But not a provable intent to kill. Why would he? What evidence did he have to believe Arbery deserved to be killed? You cannot elevate your assumptions to proof, especially one as questionable as that.
    1
  4430. Not much of a debate.
    1
  4431. I agree. My guess is it might be mandatory for certain suspected crimes? I'm only being quite lighthearted: but how long down do you think I would have to scroll before someone serioulsy claims it's all an act to make the police look good?
    1
  4432.  @tristanrandall5893  Anything's possible, I agree. But with that many officers, any such deceit won't last long.
    1
  4433. Do you mean by per capita per person in the general population, or the chance of dying per passenger miles/trips only for the people who fly?
    1
  4434.  @travisobryan8460  I think back then if you do it by passenger miles, the airplane wins. But by passenger hours the car wins. So naturally, the industry chooses passenger miles. However I would have to put in some real numbers to see. Today though, flying has become so much safer that the plane would beat the car by both measures. Very roughly, in the 1950s in the US the ball park safety for air travel was somewhere between one chance in 50-100 thousand per flight, very dangerous by today's standard. By the 1970s it had dropped to about one chance in 4 million per flight. Today, it's off the charts safer. If we confine ourselves to US-operated jet airliners, in the US there has been but a single fatality since 2001. By my estimate that works out to 1 chance in 10 billion per flight. Given all the existing hazards today, I am amazed. I've jumbled together three different yardsticks, which is a mess, but I don't have time to be more refined at the moment. If you think this is worth it, we could look next at auto numbers. But I don't have those in my memory.
    1
  4435. But far more the zoo's.
    1
  4436.  @JohnStedman-d4s  While I agree, this is the only time I criticize Mentour just a bit. He does no acknowledge that no matter how you do the math, Van Zanten did indeed make a mistake far more significant that any of the others, with the possible exception of the wisdom of having two planes occupying the same runway under those condition, one pointed at the other, primed for take off. I think there is no reason to downplay this fact. His decisions, however inexplicable, were not just part of a long chain of factors. It was the primary cause.
    1
  4437. Well one could say we are all effectively feminists now. How many men wish to take away women's right to vote, to sit on jury duties, to ban them from the workforce? That was yesterday's feminism, and it's now taken for granted
    1
  4438. But you need the proof, that's the point.
    1
  4439. Thank you. (But I will at least give him a bit of credit for trying to show his humanity.)
    1
  4440. Do you believe liberals are as fervently patriotic as the Trump crowd?
    1
  4441.  @raindoset5408  What about it? Is it supposed to be a revelation that crime is a worldwide phenomenon?
    1
  4442.  @stopcensorship7705  Test time. Here's a quote from Medline Plus on being left handed: "more recent studies suggest that multiple genes, perhaps up to 40, contribute to this trait." If you know how to do science, please provide a scientific refutation of the above statement.
    1
  4443.  @stopcensorship7705  I don't have the names of all 40+, but the following are among the most frequently listed (in my searches so far) that have been identified in studies on handedness: ANKS1B BCR BUB3 CRHR1 LINC00648 MAP2, NDRG1 NME7 TUBB, TUBA1B, TUBB3, TUBB4A TTC28 Two very thorough studies are titled "Genome-wide association study identifies 48 common genetic variants associated with handedness" and "Handedness and its genetic influences are associated with structural asymmetries of the cerebral cortex in 31,864 individuals" So I welcome your powers of scientific research to prove that the above claims are impossible. Go for it.
    1
  4444.  @stopcensorship7705  "Genes associated with handedness include LRRTM1 (Francks et al., 2007), PCSK6 (Scerri et al., 2011; Arning et al., 2013; Brandler et al., 2013; Robinson et al., 2016), AR (Medland et al., 2005; Hampson and Sankar, 2012; Arning et al., 2015), COMT (Savitz et al., 2007), APOE (Bloss et al., 2010; but see Hubacek et al., 2013; Piper et al., 2013), and SETDB2 (Ocklenburg et al., 2015a). " Is the above quote refutable? Yes or no please.
    1
  4445.  @stopcensorship7705  I never said there was such a relationship. Nice try. While you're at it, I'm still waiting for that scientific study proving that biology has nothing to do with gay attraction. Cite me a peer review scientific study that conclusively proves it. Go for it Big Guy.
    1
  4446. This is incoherent. Who people, which people, what people?
    1
  4447. I don't see that. What debris pattern doesn't match?
    1
  4448. Question: If a 3-year-old managed to open an emergency door in flight, would you agree the NTSB would rightly hold the airline accountable, and not the mom?
    1
  4449. Given Murphy's Law, I wouldn't count on it.
    1
  4450. I've talked to many pilots. There is no consensus that these maneuvers were impossible, unless you restrict yourself to places like pilots for 911 truth, which are a group of self-selected believers. The airline pilots I spoke with, for the most part, do not accept the views of truthers.
    1
  4451. Do you respect him for slaughtering peaceful protesters, for being the worst mass killer in the country's history, for allowing torture to continue, for his fraudulent elections?
    1
  4452. No immediate panic because he was too dumb to know how to act. Seriously, any real script would have tried to make the president look on top of things. Not reading "My Pet Goat" and looking paralyzed. That's the dumbest script I've ever heard.
    1
  4453. Yes, but if the controller is directing you, isn't this considered proper protocol??
    1
  4454. Good point. I think it can be both or either, or perhaps other factors which is why we should not jump to the conclusion it's the parents' fault. Look at the Kaczynski brothers.
    1
  4455. And Turkish Airlines', as their recklessness was also a significant factor in the crash.
    1
  4456. It did.
    1
  4457.  @markbarger1791  OK, overwhelming amount of evidence. Provide a link to said proof. And don't give us a single woman who threw out 5 ballots.
    1
  4458.  @markbarger1791  I already watched it. It's been put under a microscope by many experts and fact checkers and found to contain many lies and distortions of fact. Notice how, like Pillowman, we are forced to take their word for what we see and what they claim. They don't actually give you the PROOF ITSELF for their claims. For example you see a few people putting something in a ballot drop box, but no proof they aren't legitimate. See the long expose on wiki. Tell me how you know which of these sources is telling the truth. For me, it's a no-brainer: For instance, "ACLED said the claims were categorically false, noting it does not track cellphone data." Dinesh D'Souza used to produce quality works such as Illiberal Education, and The End of Racism. Since then it's been a steady and sad decline. That you accept it without question shows again the willingness to believe of the 45 crowd versus objective and critical analysis by more sensible folk. Just sayin.
    1
  4459.  @markbarger1791  "geo cell phone tracking does work." Yes it works, but you misrepresent the point. ACLED does not USE this technology !!!! How difficult is that for you to grasp? Are you pretending not to understand? Surely you cannot be this dense.
    1
  4460.  @markbarger1791  "Zuckerberg donated 450 billion. Ctlc gave 80% and 90% to the big democratic cities. Really fair for a election. Huh?" OMG I found this in about 2 seconds: "Zuckerberg didn’t donate directly to Biden’s 2020 campaign, federal campaign finance records show. He and his wife donated at least $400 million to two nonprofit organizations" Nothing illegal. No fraud. Shows the lack of proof I keep asking for. If you had the proof, you wouldn't be wasting your time with easily debunked claims that prove nothing. :)
    1
  4461.  @markbarger1791  Pleas cite my incorrect fact and I will correct it.
    1
  4462.  @markbarger1791  "facts will remain facts. Truth will always prevail. And the truth is democrats cheat in elections." Still no proof of rigged election. 37 posts later and you still can't deliver. What does that tell you?
    1
  4463.  @markbarger1791  You're babbling. Don't you have something more productive to do?
    1
  4464.  @markbarger1791  And you need to decertify the blab factor.
    1
  4465.  @markbarger1791  "not going to happen." Of course not. You're giving up babbling on Youtube is as likely as a stolen election. They go hand in hand.
    1
  4466. It's always seemed to me typical reserve fuel is scarily minimal. From my lay perspective, wiser to have immediately gone to Kuala Lumpur.
    1
  4467. Can't you guys ever pause for a moment in your relentless campaign to spam the internet day and night?
    1
  4468. I have no problem with people who don't believe a plane crashed at Shanksville. But at the very least, you should make an effort to know what the official claims really are. Only respecting the known facts will hget you anywhere. No one ever "admitted" there was not a shred of 757 at the site. To the contrary they claimed 95% of the wreckage was buried within the crater. No one ever said the plane literally evaporated. Not even close. As a figure of speech perhaps, but not literally.
    1
  4469. That's right, do not interfere with Museveni's engine of violence, torture and mass murder, and sham elections. Let the worst mass murderer in the country's history keep on killing. None of our business.
    1
  4470. The evidence for a shoot down doesn't add up for 2 main reasons 1) There would be major wreckage all over the place, or at least in one spot. There wasn't, except at Shanksville. 2) a dozen named witnesses testified they saw an intact airliner hit the ground in Shanksville. You have to prove they were all liars before getting any further with this theory.
    1
  4471. Mentour Pilot, another entertaining and very informative video. Maybe I'm naive, but here we are well into the 21st century, some 57 years into the jet age (at the time), and a major airline is still not able to do a basic approach the right way? Perhaps you could comment on that. Thank you.
    1
  4472. Gay attraction is not chosen. Lots of things are unnatural (airplanes for instance) but it doesn't prove the choice to fly is irrational. Your worldview is twisted on so may basic levels. Thoreau said, reform yourself before reforming others. Your ideas need much reform indeed.
    1
  4473.  @stopcensorship7705  "animals are not capable of consent" Homosexuality is about attraction, not consent. You must be a troll. But if you are, you're not any better than a real idiot.
    1
  4474. Maybe we need to go back to basics. Is God / the Christian bible what guides your thinking here?
    1
  4475. "There is no scientific evidence that homosexuality is natural... its a matter of choice." That tells me you don't understand the nature of scientific evidence. Are you familiar, for example, with the "fraternal birth order effect?" It's not proof but is is evidence in the broadest sense that supports a biological input into homosexual orientation. The science of homosexuality remains unsettled. I challenge you to provide a positive scientific proof that we have acquired enough scientific knowledge to have a definitive answer to the question. I'm all ears.
    1
  4476.  @jubinalove9773  Not sure which of my comments you're replying to. Common sense on this is undergoing change in many places. Anyway, we as of yet do not fully understand the science of homosexuality. Thus we cannot speak of proofs or certainties.The GWAS project is widely seen by scientists as showing that homosexual attraction may be 8-25% influenced by genes. We also know little about the prenatal hormonal influence on sexual orientation. But some evidence shows this may be a promising direction for further study. The fraternal birth order effect is well established, for example. Yet upbringing does not seem to make sense as an explanation for it. Have you looked into this? So it's wise, IMO, to not speak as if these are settled issues. We should remain humble and not pretend science has all the answers to our questions at this time.
    1
  4477. Based on what?
    1
  4478.  @Semprefi  As is usually the case with Youtube, you are making a claim but not providing evidence.
    1
  4479. There's actually recent evidence that suggests it's a tendency that may have a biological component.
    1
  4480. It practically was, the list was 45 degrees.
    1
  4481. Trans people should not be considered a problem per se. I fully sympathize. But when it comes to bathrooms and dressing rooms and even prisons, why should only their concerns matter, and not the concerns of others too? Does the average woman want what appears to be a man in the dressing room? Is that a valid concern or not? The answers IMO have to involve trade offs and compromises, otherwise it's one group's rights stamping out the rights of others. Hard problem as I see it.
    1
  4482. Is this forum representative of what Americans have become? Unable to compute basic reality? Unable to process the massive evidence that proves 911 was the work of terrorists?
    1
  4483. and corrupt
    1
  4484. It helps to know the facts before you post.
    1
  4485. Possible, but if you do all the digging, you might find that the missile people do not have an airtight case either.
    1
  4486. That's a non-sequitur if there ever was one. Did you not study logic? Or only how to shout with caps?
    1
  4487.  @arassalehi4321  What evil am I backing?
    1
  4488. I agree with most of Rowling protestations. But, I do believe the question of what constitutes a man or a woman does not have an absolutely objective fool proof answer. If, or example, it conceivably could be proved that a sense of mismatch of biology with perceived gender is not only profound in some cases, but also due to not having the typical "male" or "female" temperament or tendencies of your biological sex, but those of the opposite gender, who is to say that's not also a valid way of defining gender? I personally would go with that, but would probably prefer we keep the sex part strictly biological.
    1
  4489. OK, so do you want the poles to melt? Do you want 10+ feet of sea level rise by 2100? No matter who did it, it's a planetary disaster.
    1
  4490. Just like CT sites.
    1
  4491. Maybe so in terms of the prize. But can we say the degree to which she was denied credit, or credit stolen from her, might have had something to do with the sexism of the day?
    1
  4492. Yes there is. Ethiopian flight 302, pre-excavation pics prove it.
    1
  4493. So have all of us.
    1
  4494.  @stopcensoring.7959  What would you do if you had gay attraction your whole adult life but never straight attraction. Would that have changed your life in any significant way?
    1
  4495.  @stopcensoring.7959  Gay attraction isn't a lifestyle. Nice try.
    1
  4496. They treat these men as if they were worse than Hitler. Yet their crimes didn't even approach the worst cases of 1st degree or premeditated murder. This trial shows what happens when the hatred of the moment takes priority over basic principles of justice. For many in the US, racism is now seen as far worse than mass murder.
    1
  4497.  @zayjones2885  We are talking 3 men, not the entire white race. Are you saying all whites are as guilty as the McMichaels?
    1
  4498.  @zayjones2885  It's not embedded in everyone. Just the small fraction of people who kill.
    1
  4499. I'm glad we can finally agree on something. There are good people in every race, group, or society.
    1
  4500. Ethiopian and Egyptair win the prize in this category.
    1
  4501. Jason who?
    1
  4502. Yawn
    1
  4503. Having a glass of water is technically a choice, but thirst is not. By the same token gay relationships are chosen, but gay attraction, generally speaking, is not.
    1
  4504.  @AntilleanConfederation  I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule. In any case that doesn't necessarily mean such a person is gay. I am a gay man. I can tell you I have not been able to change after over 30 years . Believe me, I would love to know what it's like to crave p--sy. That's your proof right there, unless you think people like me are simply liars. Is that what you think?
    1
  4505. It never will. It will not have feelings or sentience either. These claims are no more supported than any other fanciful speculation most sensible people would reject.
    1
  4506.  @maudbrewster9413  Definitely not in the US.
    1
  4507. Not any fatal ones, but a very knowledgeable poster on another forum recently stated the early 747s were a disaster, with many safety issues. I believe him, though eventually the plane became much safer.
    1
  4508. And bad engineering also caused the slat system to fail.
    1
  4509. I would would say Brandan and Candice are also in that category. What the discussion says to me more than anything is we humans are more in seek of belief than the hard evidence that underlies those beliefs. For example, little if any discussion of the evidence the Bible is God's word here. That is simply taken as given by believers. The hard evidence is frequently asked for, but so far as I am aware, never been proven by the standards of today's 21st century standards of evidence. If I am wrong, do direct me to it.
    1
  4510. ​ @chrissmith-rw8ei  Perhaps they are right. But without providing substantial evidence that can be evaluated by the public, the claim proves nothing to anyone other than you. We also have to consider that at least a dozen named witnesses described an intact plane as it hit the ground. How do I know two state troopers have more credibility than a dozen eyewitnesses?
    1
  4511. Maybe so, but rotting in prison is arguably a worse fate. When you're dead, you won't be experiencing this punishment, so in a sense it's the easy way out.
    1
  4512. With a PhD in bedroom management he's hard not to love. Especially for those with a PhD in Snoopolgy.
    1
  4513. I don't think she could get away with saying that had she really lied. Too many people have confirmed the story.
    1
  4514.  @Dan-di9jd  Well what do you think she was doing then?
    1
  4515.  @Dan-di9jd  How can you be so sure of that?
    1
  4516.  @Dan-di9jd  How so? And even if so, so what?
    1
  4517.  @Dan-di9jd  I'm not saying it wasn't a lie. But you have not presented any real evidence. It's just speculation.
    1
  4518. Thanks for the recommend! Have your read the other four books devoted to this crash?
    1
  4519.  @veronicababy7959  I'd recommend Destination Disaster. It's usually available used, as it's been almost 50 years, but well worth finding. It has the chilling Douglas journals that were written by the Douglas support team at Istanbul: a rough quote would be "THY flight engineers do not recognize a malfunctioning airplane. . . stare blankly at malfunctioning instruments." And makes vividly clear Turkish Airlines' probable role in the crash. After the airline tampered with the door, "a sickly child could have defeated the safety system."
    1
  4520. And don't forget murderous. He is after all Uganda's leading butcher.
    1
  4521. The irony is that Trump & Co are the ones who would actually turn us into a fascist state. Did you catch that comment where he asked if he could impose martial law? Is this the kind of psychopath you want? It's a war of pure hate.
    1
  4522. I think the reason is that it's gays, not straights, who have suffered the brunt of abuse in regard to this issue. Also, the hostility in these comments towards gay folks sounds more melodramatic to me then what gay people say here. Why can't we all just leave gays alone and mind our own business. There are more important things in the world to complain about. Is that too much to ask?
    1
  4523. Well put.
    1
  4524.  @dirkdiggler8260  You mean no sense?
    1
  4525.  @gjustg1540  As usual, like others I have pointed this out to, you have not looked at the PRE_EXCEVATION photos of flight 302.
    1
  4526.  @anton1949  This is exactly right. We have at least 3 crashes similar to each other: -Flight 93 -Ethiopian 302 (pre-excavation photos only, please !!) -Northwest 710. In all 3 cases, most if not all the fuselage was buried; very little visible debris at the impact crater, no visible luggage strewn round (to the best of my knowledge.) If you want to see flight 302 before they started digging out the wreckage, please google "Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 and 9/11's United Flight 93" which brings you right to the link with the photos. The final report also shows the CEO of ET standing in the empty crater just hours after the crash.
    1
  4527.  @m0joj0jo666  "you claim that debris from this flight was somehow expelled or transferred to the secondary site, 8 miles away." First, a correction. Not all of flight 93's fuselage was buried. The front quarter to third was blasted into the nearby trees. My bad. As explained to you either here or on the other thread, the only debris found 8 miles away was a few pieces of paper. I asked you to cite evidence (by which I mean something other than your memory) of heavier parts getting 8 miles away. You have so far failed to deliver. As for how that debris got there, the answer is provided by PSA flight 1771 and USAir flight 427. In the former, debris also was found about 8 miles distant - again not plane parts but paper only. However the irrefutable proof comes from the latter. Flight 427 was also in one piece as it crashed. But just a few minutes later, the exact same type of very light debris fell onto a golf course 2 miles away: wispy insulation, fabric liner, and business cards. The mechanism is likely (IMO having studied this) the suction of air up into the debris cloud, similar to a thermal, a kind of temperature inversion known to cause updrafts. When you look at the pic of the smoke plume, it appears this is what's happening. Once up into higher air, there are stronger currents that can carry this debris for miles. Flight 427 is irrefutable proof this can happen. And if you are going to respond with "8 miles is much farther than 2 miles," I invite you to provide physics equations indicating exactly how far such debris can travel. Thus there is no contradiction.
    1
  4528.  @gjustg1540  "Reality is that PSA 1771 was a BAe 146-200, approximately half the size of a 757-200, it hit a rocky mountainside and not a field with soft soil and an already existing crater." That is wrong. There was no crater, only a shallow scar. Nice try. "air crash investigator." And a very unusual one, as no NTSB member has come forward and agreed with this nonsense you are posting. NOT A SINGLE ONE. You are out on a ridiculous limb with no credibility. Give your name and background or you have no more claim than Youtube Joe.
    1
  4529.  @gjustg1540  Have you taken a look at the flight 302 PRE_EXCAVATION pics yet? Of course not. Because you don't think like a scientist (who cover all their bases) and do not understand the nature of evidence. I can make this conversation as detailed as you like, and you will not win it. And finally, like all the other Alice and Wonderland posters, this is an alleged fake without a motive. Why did we need to fake flight 93? No one has answered yet. Will you be the first to explain a crime without a motive? Go for it.
    1
  4530.  @gjustg1540  "Nothing about the mountainous, rocky impact area or the comparatively miniscule aircraft, the angle of impact or the speed? " There's no requirement I have to answer every point in less than 4 hours, is there? So if you would like to continue, kindly pick one of your points above, and I will comment. Then let's stick with that before moving on.
    1
  4531.  @CATSWITHKYLA  "Pictures can be framed." They certainly can. But there has to be some compelling evidence that they were. I don't believe there is. As I have mentioned now many times here and on other threads, Ethiopian flight 302, before they started digging up the wreckage, looked remarkably similar. A hole in the ground and little else visible, but some other pieces some distance away, just like flight 93. Please google "Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 and 9/11's United Flight 93" If you want to do this like a scholar and a scientists, you must consider all the evidence. Let me know what you think of these pics. Thanks
    1
  4532. True. But this trial has violated proportional sentencing at every stage. At least give them that. Here, we don't even have 1st degree or premeditated murder, but they get worst case sentences? A very disturbing trial IMO, even though they do deserve long prison sentences for sure.
    1
  4533. We heard you the first 100 times.
    1
  4534. It's a refreshing challenge to woke thinking, and is a well needed counter to the extremes of the trans movement.
    1
  4535. To the unrigorous mind, perhaps.
    1
  4536. That shows again the joke that Youtube posters know how to do research. Especially the truthers. The County Coroner Wally Miller stated he ID'd almost all the passengers using mainly DNA and dental records. He said there were no bodies, but never said "no body parts." These little but very important distortions of the record is one way reality gets transformed in the retelling, until the real truth is lost. Nice try.
    1
  4537. ct'd. . . But like Sanders' test, it falls short of the proof you claim. Why? Study radar anomalies and their limitations. There are many things things that can account for such readings besidespieces of aircraft being ejected at Mach 4, including, for example, the scatter of small debris in an aircraft break up creating a clutter effect and causing the radar to give a false position. So this evidence IS interesting (to me at least) but it's unscientific to call it a hard and fast proof.
    1
  4538. Why does it take 50 years for a memorial? Like Air Canada Toronto. Did people just not care back then?
    1
  4539. n-word crd. So I at least give her credit for total honesty, and the fact she didn't have to reveal this. While her apologies seemed hard to read, her entire performance in the deposition seemed completely credible, and indicative of a woman who has a great deal more integrity than the bitter employee who is hell bent on ruining her. This shameful dishonesty is no excuse for racism, but none of this other stuff meant anything to anyone until Ms. Jackson appeared.
    1
  4540.  @tbphillips9649  People have a right to talk about whatever the F they want on an American created forum. You should be grateful YouTube is mostly unmoderated, as this forum would not have much of a chance were it moderated. Who says what here is not for you or Africa, or for Uganda's most notorious butcher to decide. You cannot invoke the principle "respect, " when you yourself not only have no respect for gays, but for your own country, effectively making yourself president for life through constant election fraud and corruption. Are those African values? To judge from the record, it may well be.
    1
  4541.  @Thatscrazybro1l  In a city of 10 million, no one would be filming?? Bizarre comments never cease to amaze.
    1
  4542. I can understand why people think that. But no skeptic has yet submitted a proof to an engineering journal. After 23 years, what are they all so afraid of?
    1
  4543.  @R.gr98  He did, but as it turns out, the term "pull it" doesn't mean controlled demolition in demo jargon. It's easy to fall prey to one's intuition. But in this case the intuition has been proven wrong. Think about it carefully. You would have us believe Silverstein decided to blow the whole plot in a pre-recorded interview he knew would be on national TV? Seriously? He meant pull the rescue workers away because they predicted the building might collapse.
    1
  4544.  @blmtrejureydepourtment5899  It's legal to chase holding a fire arm.. . OK, But even if true, here's the problem. I would grant Travis the right of self-defense IF the shooting is cut off from what preceded it. The timeline is key here. The law states that pursuing a citizen's arrest requires immediate knowledge of a crime committed. Hard to argue that here since the only crime Arbery committed that day literally happened about two minutes before Greg saw him. Therefore the McMichaels did not have immediate knowledge of crime committed. So far, would you agree with this?
    1
  4545.  @KevinP32270  That's George's side of the story. There were no witnesses to it. So we don't know if George retreated first. Do we?
    1
  4546.  @blmtrejureydepourtment5899  One last point. The encounter two days before was not a witness to a felony, at least I doubt merely being in an open construction zone would qualify as a felony. That's the only time, I believe, that Greg witnessed him in any illegal activity.
    1
  4547.  @KevinP32270  Thank you. I did not follow all of the tedious trial hours. But even if that were true, it doesn't show who threw the first punch or push. But even without this evidence, I would still be of the opinion there was probably some degree of reasonable doubt. Whether GZ is innocent or guilty there can be no question he's shown himself since to be a sociopath. Certainly no role model he.
    1
  4548.  @KevinP32270  "i don't know G.Z. personally. but he did used self defense in this case." Yes, I know. I am reluctantly giving him the benefit of the doubt. But do footprints prove TM assaulted first? These are two separate questions.
    1
  4549.  @KevinP32270  It's a good point, yes. But a man who has since revealed to the world his sociopathic character, good judgement is the last quality that comes to mind.
    1
  4550.  @KevinP32270  Yes, it's my opinion. And a very good one. I don't pretend to be making a licensed medical judgement, but his constant run in with the laws since, and violent threats, do not seem to indicate a particularly mature character. Certainly no role model. Do you think his constant police encounters and threats of violence are an indication of a stable character?
    1
  4551. What is it that fascinates you with gays? Life is tragically short. Why waste it obsessing over gays?
    1
  4552. I'd say it's a mixed bag. Progress doesn't always follow a straight line. A few years one way, then a shift backwards. But there's a case that the overall trend is positive. But I agree, what a bummer.
    1
  4553. What's left to show? More meaningless numbers on a big screen? Another cyber expert with a paper bag over his head?
    1
  4554. Whatever lies can be ascribed to 9/11, it's tiny compared to the massive crock of sh-t that constitutes the truth mvt. They would have us believe that without crashing a plane into an empty field in rural Pennsylvania, the War on Terror would have been impossible. Seriously, you can't comprehend how utterly insane that reasoning is?
    1
  4555. OMG. Jan 6 was about domestic terrorists. Those people are simply thugs.
    1
  4556. We may have. But the reason we have is partly because they are naturally a huge turn on regardless. Are we really trying to say human's invented sexual attraction?
    1
  4557. Yes, the West colonized Africa, and the result was to raise living standards, suppress disease and generally improve the quality of life for most.
    1
  4558.  @hloniphotaula4300  It's a complete and total myth that before the colonial era life was much better in Africa: "In short, over the last hundred years or so, contact with the West has transformed large parts of the Third World for the better. Southeast Asia and West Africa provide well-documented examples. For instance, in the 1890’s Malaya was a sparsely populated area of hamlets and fishing villages. By the 1930’s it had become a country with populous cities, thriving commerce, and an excellent system of roads, primarily thanks to the rubber industry brought there and developed by the British. Again, before the 1890’s there was no cocoa production in what is now Ghana and Nigeria, no exports of peanuts or cotton, and relatively small exports of palm oil and palm kernels. These are by now staples of world commerce, all produced by Africans, but originally made possible by European activities. Imports, both of capital goods and of mass consumer goods designed for African use, also rose from negligible amounts at the end of the 19th century to huge volumes by the 1950’s. These far-reaching changes are reflected in statistics of government revenues, literacy rates, school attendance, public health, infant mortality, and many other indicators, such as the ownership of automobiles and other consumer durables." -P T Bauer https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/western-guilt-third-world-poverty/
    1
  4559.  @hloniphotaula4300  It may have been here and there. But as a whole, before economic contacts with the West, Africa was not very healthy, quite literally. Disease was rampant, and brought under control by the introduction of western medicine. Slave raiding was still widespread, and it was the West - not Africa - that eventually stamped it out. Life was much more dangerous and precarious. Public safety was a joke. There's this gigantic myth that before the industrial age life was idyllic and peaceful and plentiful. It's a fairy tale for the most part. It's like people who nostagize the Middle Ages. Medieval Europe was a horror show of disease, pollution and violence. This is not to say Britain and other countries had a right to colonize other peoples. That is a moral crime. And violence often accompanied these conquests. But on the whole, by most indicators the transformation of Africa in the colonial era was mostly beneficial for the people that lived there.
    1
  4560. Exactly. Just like UFO abductees.
    1
  4561.  @textbox6648  Please cite a confirmatory link.
    1
  4562.  @textbox6648  I know he said that, but he also denied it in other places. When the same person gives two different stories, neither one can be considered the truth. This is one of the basics of being honest. You don't just cherry pick the version you like. The truth mvt is one of the worst offenders witness their inability to cite the numerous firemen who spoke of building 7 completely engulfed, and their complete ignorance of the 2003 cell phone study confirming calls connected at all phases of flight. Witness too the BBC report where they said bldg 7 came down before it actually did. Since THIS BBC story fits the truther's narrative, the "lying media" are now treated like the gospel.
    1
  4563. Brilliaunté
    1
  4564. Which one is that?
    1
  4565. I think they would lose all interest and change their focus to anything else that thumbs their noses at established reality.
    1
  4566.  @kalvinblue  Except he's wrong.
    1
  4567.  @kalvinblue  You have no proof.
    1
  4568.  @stopcensorship7705  You have a bad habit of bringing up ridiculously irrelevant points.
    1
  4569.  @springfieldkakaruk2346  Even if everything you say is true, causing an amputation is never acceptable.
    1
  4570. Finding paper items in fiery airplane crashes is neither new nor interesting.
    1
  4571. ​ @mpatrickthomas  You're claiming that exploding fuel must always travel faster than any and all paper items aboard. And also burn them completely before escaping out the far side of the building. Kindly provide positive proof by citing an expert on the spread of fire and explosions. Can you do it?
    1
  4572. And how do you know that?
    1
  4573.  @KM-uq1wb  Oh I'm sorry. The fact it was premeditated. It appears to me it could well have been premeditated. But sometimes in the heat of rage you can't necessarily predict how you are going to act second by second. Maybe the idea occurred to him as he started speaking, but didn't actually commit to it until the very last second. BTW. It's happened to me. I never thought in a million years I would have it in me to say to a police officer, "you dumn f-ck." But I said it. I've always had low confidence in the absolute confidence so many express about reading others' minds. But that could well be my bias to be sure.
    1
  4574. Plenty of sensible people have looked into it and conclude the truth mvt is a scholarly joke.. They have no sense of the big picture, they can't connect dots. Thus we have the absurd spectacle of controlled demolition. Do you honestly think that the government, after 3 airplane strikes, would have just sat idly by and done nothing to retaliate without the collapses? The event was unprecedented from 9:02 onwards, and by 9:37 America was deeply united in the conviction we were at war with terrorists. And to boot, alleging they decided it would be a great idea to choose junk physics to make their case, and to knowingly make the collapse times impossibly fast. Do you realize how utterly absurd that sounds?
    1
  4575. Trump was loyal to no one. Trashing the military, promising and never delivering, and promoting the biggest lie in US history. Neither will be president.
    1
  4576.  @masterblaster2978  Time will tell.
    1
  4577. Your name says it all.
    1
  4578. Don't know what you mean. The genocide included the western regions too.
    1
  4579.  @cezmikaloie  It's difficult to come to grips with the truth if one is Turkish. So I don't hold it against you.
    1
  4580. The only reason the skies are as safe as they are is that profits will plummet if there are too many accidents.
    1
  4581.  @emilsinclair4190  The FAA only fixes things if there's a danger too many planes will fall out of the sky. They are thus governed by the profit motive too. Why do you think they failed to stop the Max crashes, and even wanted to keep the plane flying after other governments grounded them? Could profits have something to do with it?
    1
  4582. "what kind of irresponsible thinking makes filing down random bits of a pressure even remotely a good idea?" You'd have to ask that to the TA maintenance department. "or the failure of TA to follow through on the required modifications?" They probably had no clue to the significance of these missing parts.
    1
  4583. Maybe so, but Trump is the master of hate. Vindictive, dishonest to his very core. And a traitor. How can you vote for a traitor? Take lying about dog eating immigrants. How low life can you be for spreading lies like that? Just my opinion.
    1
  4584. It's French law apparently, but still disgusting.
    1
  4585. Sex offender for life is ridiculous. He may be an a-hole for sure. But teenage sex should not be criminalized.
    1
  4586. But he did close it.
    1
  4587.  @tammoratya9504  You may be thinking of the AA baggage handler. He forced the door shut with his knee, but checked with his supervisor. So he cannot be blamed. For the Turkish jet, see 9:00. Mentour Pilot correctly states the baggage handler did everything correctly. In both cases, the baggage handlers acted responsibly.
    1
  4588.  @tammoratya9504  Yes, the emotional impact would have been significant, I'm sure.
    1
  4589. ​ @6z0  The accident was a mistake, not the result of stupidity.
    1
  4590.  @6z0  It's insane to think it was deliberate. Put yourself in his shoes. Do you want to be turned in by your crew for reckless flying? Do you want to lose your license? Do you want to lose your job? Did you hear their earlier comment about going to jail if they exceed their duty time? And now you want to go to jail? And finally, knowing full well the runway might still be occupied, you want to kill yourself too. This theory is as crazy as it gets.
    1
  4591. Good one!
    1
  4592.  @JohnStedman-d4s  Hello, always well argued posts. We may have had this discussion before. Despite whatever consensus there may be, I think you can make a point that keeping operations going during a back track with two aircraft on an active runway, no ground radar, and THEN suddenly (and rather predictably at this airport) the onslaught of marginal visibility, one is entitled to think that the more responsible course of action is to wait, especially since, as I understand it, the backlog of planes was rapidly shrinking. If we strive, ideally for zero fault tolerance, this to me would be an obvious case of compromising this standard. Of course, this cannot always be practical. BUT, if we feel that when a professional pilot or controller feels uncomfortable with this, as we know Pan Am initially did, they should be allowed to disregard an instruction to continue, then isn't that in effect saying the procedures in place that day are open to valid criticism, even if going against the consensus? As a paying passenger, personally I would not have wished to be put into that system of compromised redundancy. My argument would be that if every take off in the world were conducted under similar parameters, "Tenerifes" would happen more often.
    1
  4593. What I really don't understand is, why is this even an issue? My teachers never said to me, "Hi there he, how are you?" or "Hi she, I got your paper." I have never been addressed by anyone as a pronoun, have you? If the teacher doesn't like these new pronouns, no one is forcing him to use them. Just use their actual name instead. Easy solution, no?
    1
  4594. And never forget the lies of the truth movement.
    1
  4595. That's because Boeing effectively became MD, as after the acquisition, the senior Douglas people replaced the higher ups in the company. It's also a bit eerie that the combined death toll of the MAX crashes and the Paris crash were exactly 346.
    1
  4596. Paper surviving explosive plane crashes is nothing new. You need to know the facts before pontificating.
    1
  4597.  @zsoltsz2323  Yes, if I am off in explaining the math accurately, there's no doubt the regulators had made a mistake. The Dutch equivalent in the Netherlands were very reluctant to certify the DC-10 for this reason, later saying "Next time, they will probably listen to us."
    1
  4598.  @SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648  Only the TK of 1974 could answer that. The airline was so deficient at the time, McDonnell Douglas insisted on sending a support team to Istanbul in 1972 and having one of its pilots be in the cockpit of all DC-10 flights. The Turkish crews became increasingly annoyed at this, and the program, which was supposed to run for a year, was stopped prematurely. MD kept journals of these flights which are nothing short of spine tingling. Entries read like: "engineer stares blankly at malfunctioning instruments." "weight and balance errors of thousands of pounds" and "remarkable the plane made it back to Istanbul without accident." With this safety culture, it should hardly be surprising.
    1
  4599.  @print-master  That was the Turkish Airlines of 1974. By contrast, at the time of the crash, KLM was on of a few airlines that had already implemented the fail safe closed loop system on its DC-10 cargo door. The Dutch safety board, in particular, had not wanted the DC-10 certified because of the DC-10s weak floors. They were proven right. That's the difference between an airline that cares about safety, and one that does not. But today's Turkish Airlines cannot be compared to the one from 1974. They have come a long way.
    1
  4600. If you subscribe to intolerance and moral crimes, such as locking up nonviolent people for life, then he's your man: partners in depravity.
    1
  4601. His views are just as twisted: that gays could wipe out the human race? Inflammatory, hate rhetoric like that is unbecoming of any serious person. And you probably believe it. Right?
    1
  4602. What's wrong with the ad is the not so subtle implication that most men are bullying, harrassing sexist pigs. I would have had less problem if it had said "most men already are. But most is not enough."
    1
  4603. You're already off on the wrong foot. The black boxes were subject to the extreme crushing forces of the collapses. The passport was not. It shot OUT of the building BEFORE the collapses. Nice try.
    1
  4604.  @Larry26-f1w  As usual, you offer no arguments and no facts.
    1
  4605. I'd bet the issue wasn't one of difficulty but of dollars. The Douglas philosophy was to look at the design and find every possible way to build it cheaper.
    1
  4606. I couldn't have improved on your words.
    1
  4607. The video is incorrect. As an obsessive timetable collector, the AA timetable states 2:45p to 4:39pm for that period. With a two hour difference, that's 3 hours 54 min, or about 3.5 flying time as you state.
    1
  4608. Uganda does speak. They rank themselves among the lowest on all the misery indices scales and polls worldwide. Is it any wonder.
    1
  4609. I think some people are conflating very bad behavior with criminality. My take is, with an age difference of just 2 1/2 years, some people are effectively just criminalizing the concept of teenage sex. Enough is enough. IMO. In many states the age difference clause would rule out statutory rape. But when the momentum of ganging up on a scummy person gets far enough, we see this avalanche of hatred that runs rough shod over basic common sense. Of course he MAY have raped her, but the jury had every right to find reasonable doubt.
    1
  4610. Misses the point. The McMichaels' unwise and illegal pursuit created a needless risk of death. They set the whole dangerous process in motion with their grab the guns mentality.
    1
  4611. What about Trump's big fat lie? I suppose, like most of his supporters, you think the election was stolen even though neither you nor he nor Pillowman has an iota of proof. If I am wrong, kindly link me to the proof. If you can cough up that much waited for proof, then maybe one can have a semblance of a rational discussion. Pillowman's fraud, you know, the anonymous cyber expert with a paper bag over his head, and a bunch of unintelligible numbers doesn't cut it. People who support Trump's BIG FAT LIE apparently do not understand the nature of evidence. Nor do they seem to care. To these people in general, violence, not evidence, is their first principle.
    1
  4612. What about her morals, she was in the bathroom too.
    1
  4613. @Noah "I'm not vouching for correctness of his points." And as I mentioned elsewhere there is no relationship between neurosurgery and mental heath. They are 2 distinct specialties. While I respect his skills as a surgeon, he has amply demonstrated here and elsewhere he's a person of questionable judgement.
    1
  4614. Thank you for not condemning all men. I say that with the acknowledgement the survivor always comes first, and are 100 times more important than my feelings.
    1
  4615. As I've stated, this trial was about racism, not murder. For many right now, racism has become a crime worse than murder. An interesting case how justice has little to do with principle, but with the pure hatred of the moment.
    1
  4616. But Trump's the exception. His big lie about a stolen election, and his wanting to overthrow the government makes him an enemy of trust. Plus he loathes the military.
    1
  4617. I'd say this case is a serious breach of due process.
    1
  4618. To be honest though, while there was no excuse for this disaster, I don't think it was quite on the same level as GM. Discussion welcome.
    1
  4619.  @stopcensorship7705  So now you are a psychic too. BTW show us proof the bible is God's word.
    1
  4620. He did the absolute wrong thing.You have to look at the bigger picture: it is bad law to prosecute teen sex when the participants are three or fewer years apart in age. Recently, state after state has introduced such close in -age clauses which recognize the absurdity of treating teen sex as a crime when the participants are only a few years apart.
    1
  4621. Snoopzilla par excellent.
    1
  4622. This is definitely a poor title choice. But Mentour pilot, perhaps being the only commercial pilot among them, is overall the best of all these mini series authors.
    1
  4623. Even though I'm an American, I have to agree with you!! It's not everyday we rush to elect traitors, then play dumb a few weeks later.
    1
  4624.  @Crimsonstorm14  The problem is, you're the sinner here.
    1
  4625.  @Crimsonstorm14  God never revealed himself to anyone. The problem is you don't understand the nature of evidence, and have low standards of testing reality. If God were real, there would be no atrocities, no holocaust, no Indian Ocean Tsunami. Certainly that is not the work of a loving God.
    1
  4626.  @Crimsonstorm14  That's a much more modest answer I am used to. But on the other hand, why is it so hard to just do the rational thing, and reject any notion of a biblical God who loves us? cheers
    1
  4627.  @Crimsonstorm14  This is just what I mean about the nature of evidence. In a court of law, you would not be able to call forth 500 witnesses. This is known as hearsay ("information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate") In fact there were only 4 or at most 5 people who gave any written testimony of the resurrection and who were not even living at the time. Now ask any Muslim, and they will also tell you to check the record, and then they will say Jesus did not die on the cross. And like yourself, they will call themselves scholars and insist their version of events is the only true one/s. This is what every faith believes. Change the names and faces and you get the same assumption of absolute truth. Have you researched all the claims of Islam, and indeed of the hundreds of Gods under current worship?
    1
  4628.  @Crimsonstorm14  "why believing in God/creator is irrational for you?" I am not saying it's irrational to speculate on the possibility of god in the broadest sense. It's just that the alleged Christian God seems to me too much of a stretch of credulity. Some examples -He loves us. So why did he kill us off in a flood? An act of love or hate? -As to evil existing because man has free will, why didn't God use his powers of omniscience to foresee who would misuse their free well, and leave them out of his creation? -I see no evidence that Christians behave more morally than anyone else. -If misery and great suffering are inescapable, then why create the world? -If he wanted his words to be known, why did he choose a few desert countries to make his presence known, and nowhere else? -His rather extravagantly gratuitous punishments for ordinary sin. -We deserve our suffering. If this is supposed to be God's marketing strategy, no wonder so many people reject Him.
    1
  4629. And witchcraft, black magic and dirt eating.
    1
  4630.  MAC lester  There's no video I'm aware of him breaking into house. Please provide a link to the claim.
    1
  4631. It crashed in Shanksville. Most people figured that out 22 years ago.
    1
  4632. You're living in a dream world if you think that. Uganda's most dishonest leader: fraud elections, rampant torture, and one of Uganda's most notorious butchers. Truthful, he says.
    1
  4633. Is that part of the FOIA request that finally was released last year?
    1
  4634.  @mvvbb  In some cases maybe. But here that information would be entirely irrelevant, wouldn't it?
    1
  4635.  @mvvbb  Oh I get it. If he had been breaking in, the hate crime theory would need to be that much more rigorous. I think that's the general direction you're going?
    1
  4636.  @mvvbb  I understand, and I agree with you. Just saying, either way you still end up with murder of whatever degree. What he did or didn't do before doesn't make what they did any more justifiable. They should ge the exact same sentence.
    1
  4637. Just cite the proof. Where the F is it?????????????????
    1
  4638. Well he shouldn't have been chasing him at high speed, at night. Supposing he killed someone. It's not worth putting lives at greater risk over a traffic ticket.
    1
  4639.  @MentourPilot  I heard differently. Another of the documentaries claims she was not given permission to leave the KLM, but did so anyway. ??
    1
  4640. Well I don't have time for foul-mouthed vulgar people who never grew up. You're full of it, as can be demonstrated by your mischaracterization of the rocket fuel test Sanders had done. There was no positive match. You won't discuss because you don't acknowledge counter evidence. Try your false claim on Jim Sanders.
    1
  4641. Well I think only partly so. Kudos to sending them to jail. But the sentences are excessive. We don't even have proof of 1st degree murder or premeditated murder. Life sentences are supposed to about worst case crimes. These fall short of that. The principle of proportionality has been lost.
    1
  4642.  @johnstedman4075  "Prodromal Stage of a Psychotic Break." I would not rule anything out, including far less serious reasons which can also result in what appears to the naked eye to be inexplicable lapses. I am sure you know all about heuristics. A fairly recent study on hunting accidents found that it was precisely the most experienced hunters who often were convinced they had correctly identified their target despite having targeted a human. Especially under time pressure, these mistakes are more prone to happen, and the key takeaway is they can happen outside of conscious awareness and thus may not be detectable while they are happening. And we also know that under stress, our focus tends to narrow further, which can lead to a cascade of missteps.
    1
  4643.  @StevePemberton2  Excellent post. It's always easy to judge with hindsight. My own opinion is that whatever we think of Van Zanten's mistake, the redundancy factor fell below the level paying passengers should expect. It's also as I see it, a classic case of how changes in normal routine make accidents more likely, In this case the routines that were broken included waiting until the last minute to ask for airways clearance, the use of a substandard airport not designed for all the traffic, and back taxiing on an active runway. COVID also brought to light hazards that were not appreciated before the pandemic. I would agree the Pan Am decision to follow instructions to enter the runway was a contributory factor. But not sure if I would say a factor I would fault them for, given that it was not against procedure, and probably only incrementally increases the chance of an accident. Like KLM, captain Grubbs may also have felt pressure to get out quickly. On the other hand all the fuss from posters about the Pan Am missing the assigned exist has been greatly blown out of proportion. I agree with the Spanish report this error was "not very relevant" when put in proper context. The same goes for the KLM decision to refuel. As Mentour Pilot states in the video, that decision was operationally sound, given once again, the context.
    1
  4644.  @StevePemberton2  Some of these points you raise were covered in the chapter by Jan Bartleski in his most interesting book. Yes, I totally agree with you about the Van Zanten's error being the primary cause, at least within the system. But one might argue that the system itself, as it existed that day, can also be considered as part of the primary cause. As you have more or less stated, the KLM captain did not fulfill his obligation. Even if we were to grant the Dutch report's theory that Meurs was effectively asking for both clearances at the same time; and even if Bartelski is right to say the resulting clearance could have well given the impression of a take off clearance, Van Zanten still had an obligation to positively confirm this. It should have been plainly obvious that both the request for clearance and the clearance itself could easily be interpreted in two distinctly different ways. So Van Zanten's failure to confirm which of the two possible meanings the tower meant for its clearance is a major failure the Dutch report overlooked. Thus the Dutch report, and Bartelski and also Mentour Pilot open themselves up to criticism for not firmly stating Van Zanten has to be seen as the primary cause, even if the Dutch theory is correct. A few other points: I think it's highly questionable Van Zanten was attempting a take off the first time round. Pre-revving engines was said to be a common practice on early 747s; in addition it could have been an attempt to get airborne extra fast once the brakes were released. For reasons I don't remember, I was once on a TWA 762 out of Boston where the pilot announced in advance this take off would involve exactly this. The ground was wet and there was some light fog. The thrust built up very loudly before he released the brakes. As far as the KLM going along with this unsafe plan, not sure I'm following you here. The KLM had no choice but to back track to at least the same exit as Pan Am because the taxiway was blocked. What should they have done instead? Back to the refueling issue, I don't see this as an error because the crew seemed to have been balancing the chance of bad weather moving in, versus the possible long queue for fuel once they got to Las Palmas, due to the sudden influx of the diverted aircraft. And of course there is no hard and fast rule about taking on fuel for an additional flight segment.
    1
  4645.  @StevePemberton2  "I don't think he would have been spooling up while holding the brakes if he didn't think he had takeoff clearance." Maybe the case. But I don't understand what gave him the impression he had been given clearance. Perhaps in his rushed state he assumed they were just about to get the clearance, and forgot they did not yet have their airways clearance, as that is, as you of course know, usually requested well beforehand. Maybe Meurs' meant: "you are doing your pre-rev too early."
    1
  4646.  @StevePemberton2  "Regarding KLM going along with the unsafe plan. KLM could have objected when he heard the tower telling Pan Am to backtrack behind him. He could have said 'I don't think it is safe to have two airplanes backtracking on the runway at the same time with this visibility.' " Oh I see your point. But I would suppose that if you know you are being followed by another aircraft, taking special care to be certain that aircraft is safely off the runway before you take off, would probably count as within a reasonably safe plan in your mind. Also, I don' think many captains would feel they have a right to tell ATC in another country that they disapprove of a plane that is not officially considered out of bounds.
    1
  4647.  @StevePemberton2  "You say you heard that early 747's (100, 200, 300 series had the same engine) sometimes did engine run-up prior to takeoff. Do you know when and where they did this?" While researching this question, I came across a post by one of those "ask the pilot" forums where the pilot stated that early 747s were subject to uneven spooling up, and /or they did the run up for this reason. I went to PPRuNe to check it out, and someone had started a discussion based on this crash. If you can find and check out the thread, I believe some pilots claimed it was their airline's policy to do this back with the original 747 engines. If Van Zanten did indeed try to take off during his first application of power, it would indicate someone even more disoriented than I would have imagined.
    1
  4648. Except in reality it was really AA flight 11 that holds that record.
    1
  4649. Oh sure, for example: "But the one hundred foot fuselage itself had disappeared entirely. In the crater, buried twelve feet under this smoking cauldron, was what was left of Northwest Airlines flight 710 - and the 33 men, 21 woman and 8 children and 1 infant aboard. ... The residue of flight 710 was something even the most veteran investigators had never come across before. There were no bodies." I guess that must not have been a reel crash. More examples on request.
    1
  4650. By the standards of the most brutal dictators in Africa, perhaps.
    1
  4651. Not clear that it would have helped much as it wasn't the baggage handler's job to check the peephole. He probably already knew what it was for.
    1
  4652. To some extent I agree. But the DC-10 had a more justifiably bad image due to the Paris crash and the effective cover-up surrounding it. So when Chicago happened, all eyes were on the manufacturer. On another forum a Boeing maintenance worker said much the same as you- the 747 was plagued with safety issues, which he witnesses first hand. But I don't think the fatal crash rate of the 747 reflected a worse overall design. The reason for its higher fatal crash rate is hard to actually pin down. At least I cannot find a single common factor.
    1
  4653.  @antonsmith  Perhaps they left it out because it was a single claim made by Mr. Bryan (a man of astounding stupidity) unconfirmed by anyone else. That said, I have little doubt that's what they said.
    1
  4654. Not so sure of that. There are many sensible people who have some justification for saying transism is a real phenomenon, and that at the very least, it qualifies as a legitimate challenge to traditional definitions.
    1
  4655. Especially your thruther neighbors, who have little ability to process the big picture.
    1
  4656. The answers are probably complex. But the short answer i would give is, we are a flawed species, maybe the men much more than the women. But all of us to an extent.
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  4657. The only problem is, there's no solid proof Arbery was stalked due to race. In a court of law at least, we always owe the accused the benefit of any legitimate doubt. I think you would agree with that.
    1
  4658.  @giodonni7127  Agreed. But in a court of law we have to go by proof.
    1
  4659.  @giodonni7127  History says many things. Does it say the US has a racist history? Yes. Does recent history tell us that the police system suffers from racism? I'll go along with that. Does it also show that BLM can rush to judgement? Yes, as Ferguson showed. Does it show that all whites are racist? No. So history is complex, and shows that anything is possible. Including critics of police brutality making incorrect assumptions. Including white cops shooting unarmed black men without malintent. History shows all the time that juries constantly get things wrong. It shows innocent people going to jail or worse. It shows that some people, like yourself, believe people should be judged by the color of their skin, and not by due process and a fair trial. That puts you in the same space as the racist police. Each of you judges on the basis of skin color. That's what history shows. All of these things. That's why I believe in love, not an endless cycle of feud based on racism. That is perpetuating hate. But I do agree with you that black people have far more to complain about than white people or policemen/women. That doesn't mean denying due process. It means punishing racism severely when the evidence is strong. Not when it's weak and speculative.
    1
  4660.  @giodonni7127  PS yes, the evidence here is very strong that the two men are racists. What I mean by weak and speculative is the claim their primary motive was just to go out hunting down blacks and killing them for sport. If that were true, why did they only do this to one particular black person? Explain how that fits with your belief that this was just killing for sport. And why didn't they shoot him dead the instant they caught up with him? Why wait for 3 more minutes?
    1
  4661.  @giodonni7127  Sorry if your inbox is receiving duplicate messages. Youtube's bogus filters are probably blocking me from public replies for the moment. There's a simple question that can help answer my sense that bigotry may be present in your posts. Only you can answer it. Is it possible that a caucasian's pursuit of an African American man might have nothing whatever to do with bigotry? Thank you.
    1
  4662.  @giodonni7127  OK, thanks. Appreciate your reply. The reason I am being blocked is use of key words that I avoided this time. These filters are key word algorithms, so your theory there's someone monitoring the character of my words is wishful thinking. If you think such a non-r-cist pursuit is highly unlikely, what would your evidence be? History does not tell us "highly unlikely." because you are reducing the complexity of history. What comment of mine indicates evading history? I gave you a long list of historical phenomena. Maybe you are evading some this too? Possible?
    1
  4663.  @c.g.bspendersashtray3037  No mistake, but rates by country may vary dramatically. Very difficult to be sure because of all the obstacles accessing reliable data. For example, is Sweden's rate very high as reported? Or are women more comfortable reporting it there?
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  4664. Well I hope he doesn't talk about 13 years olds having relationships with older men. And be mean to transgender people. Problem with Milo is that he's not really much of a scholar and has trouble with boundary crossings. But otherwise I do like him sometimes.
    1
  4665.  @dusk4511  Yes, but I also think he oversimplifies like most pundits out there. For example he states in absolute terms that no part of the wage gap is based on employer discrimination. Now how can anyone possibly know that? There is a part of the wage gap not easily explained, so that means employer discrimination cannot be ruled out. He's a showman more than a scholar, but the interview with Joe Rogan certainly shows he's very highly educated, much more than one might surmise.
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  4666. Why would they shoot the plane down rather than let it proceed to destination where it would do far more destruction? This again illustrates the schizophrenic nature of 911 twoof. Oh let me guess, a lone fighter made the decision to take it down.
    1
  4667. The biggest lie of all is Trump's stolen election. Not an ounce of proof. So we can choose the way of barbarism, where evidence and proof are trashed, and violence is worshipped. OR we can choose civilization. Harris may be terrible, but she's not a psychopath promoting preposterous lies, like pet-eating immigrants. Have you no shame, no decency, no respect for your fellow man? Not the slightest trace of decency?
    1
  4668. I think Bryan goes a bit too far though. Unlike the other two men, he did not set out to do anything illegal. Once he started to try and stop Arbery, then yes he crossed the line. But the entire thing was initiated by the MicMichaels, not Bryan. That makes him far less instrumental in creating reckless endangerment. Not saying he should get off the hook completely though.
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  4669. There's no way this was a fuel tank exploding. The evidence is definitive. However, a case for a cover up is very strong. It seems Iran was involved.
    1
  4670. It was the zoo's fault. Parents have an excuse: they aren't perfect. Zoos have plenty of time to think about making their gorilla enclosures safe. Where's your common sense?
    1
  4671.  @melaniewood3506  It happened in an instant. I suspect you have never had kids. As the prosecutor said: "I've never seen the attention given to a family-endangering case as this," Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters said. "If you don't believe a 3-year-old can scamper away that quickly, you've never had kids. They do just that."
    1
  4672.  @melaniewood3506  So why is it more the mother's fault than the zoo's? Mothers are suppose to be perfect and zoos are not? Is that your argument?
    1
  4673.  @melaniewood3506  OK got it, parents must be perfect, but a zoo's enclosure can be imperfect. You don't know how to carry out a logical conversation, but that's fine, this is Youtube after all.
    1
  4674.  @melaniewood3506  Well I have 3 questions for you then, and I'd like to get an honest answer to these if you would care to. 1) Do you agree that even the most conscientious parents in the world can recall times when they momentarily lost track of their children? 2) Have you ever been a parent? 3) If you were building a gorilla enclosure, wouldn't you want to make it kid-safe, in case a kid accidentally strays from his parents/guardian?
    1
  4675.  @melaniewood3506  OK, thank you for your answers. However, you didn't;t answer my last question, and no one ever blamed the gorilla. Don't you think a zoo has a duty to identify places where a child could get, and get rid of the hazard too? I am not singling you out, I have posed this question to many others too. I can only say that while I respect your point of view, I am glad that people with greater wisdom, like Jane Goodall, like the country prosecutor whom I quoted, carry more weight than unforgiving Youtube viewers. Just my opinion of course. :)
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  4676. If there were an actual proof of pedophilia then maybe.
    1
  4677. Why would you want people to not act on their most fundamental attractions if those attractions are not inherently harmful? Why would you want to disapprove of one of the most important parts of life - having an intimate relationship based on true love - to others? Whatever your beliefs, this is more akin to what I would call disrespectful. It's indifference to a class of people you have no concern for. There welfare doesn't seem to matter to you. If it did, you might instead say, "I respect and understand that it's a big sacrifice to give up a huge part of life. So while I personally don't find it acceptable, it's not for me to tell you what to do." That's a more humane and less selfish statement..
    1
  4678. You are both sociopaths, indifferent to the suffering of others.
    1
  4679.  @مصعب-خ8ه  I mean the suffering that results from hate.
    1
  4680. There are more important things to life than being a snoop.
    1
  4681. See, in my country most people have begun to realize that obsessing over what people do in the bedroom is a waste of precious time. Life's short, and do you want to spend it worrying about with whom one sleeps? Or do you want to apply those energies to more serious problems: you name it: poverty, life threatening disease, sex trafficking, global warming. The gay thing is an obsession with people consumed more about what offends them, than about making the world a better place.
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  4682. It's only absolute proof to those who haven't done their homework adequately. The decision to pull the rescue operation out of the building was made 3 hours earlier by NY fire chief Nigro. He and his team were very concerned the building might collapse, and the story was picked up by all the media. So all it may have taken was a slip of verb tense fir the BBC to get it wrong. You may recall that Fox News erroneously reported the Pope's death the day before it happened, back in 2005. These errors are hardly unique and are proof of nothing. The real question is why so few people are interested in the real truth. Not the fabricated one by the truth mvt. They fail big time in most of things they say.
    1
  4683.  @dariusbarnes8163  I've seen the broadcast, and I'm aware it was a live feed. It makes no difference. If during your live feed you get an erroneous update, a mistake is possible. "And there was no reason to be concerned about building 7 falling." Let's go there. About 2:30p that day fire chief Daniel Nigro made the decision to remove everyone from the building because of the belief the building was at high risk of collapse. His quotes are documented. Thus the media knew hours ahead of time the building was expected to eventually collapse. Thus this mistake may well have been no more suspicious than all the other things the media routinely get wrong. Discussion: -Do you agree the fire chief made a decision to remove everyone from in and around the building? -Do you agree the fire chief stated he feared a collapse of the building? -If not, do you think he was in on the alleged plot? -are you aware of the numerous firefighter quotes saying the building was entirely engulfed, that it was creaking, and leaning? -Were they all liars?
    1
  4684. @MIKE OXLONG I said you are on ignore, but I'll give you one last chance. Show me the link stating Daniel Nigro is now a millionaire. Not that it would prove anything, but I'd like to see your evidence. Thank you.
    1
  4685. @MIKE OXLONG Sure, take plenty of time to more than likely confirm your poor research abilities. But maybe you'll actually surprise me. I'm very good about admitting when I'm wrong.
    1
  4686. I didn't find it. The burden of proof is on you to provide your source.
    1
  4687. @MIKE OXLONG There are tons of Daniel Nigros that pop up in a Google search. I challenge you to show that your source corresponds to the correct Daniel Nigro. If you cannot or will not explicitly identify your source, then that says to me you are the liar, or have poor research skills.
    1
  4688.  @dariusbarnes8163  "There is no burden on me brother. " My fault, that was directed at Oxlong. I'm curious why you choose to completely ignore the facts I presented. You don't even seem to want to refute them. That says a lot to me. "if you have never seen it or will never see it." What makes you think I haven't seen it? "I will not negage in any argument or exchange with you or anyone else about it." Understood, not an issue for me. There's no obligation to debate things. I just thought I'd give it a try.
    1
  4689.  @dariusbarnes8163  "You will get no debate or exchange from me." I already told you that is perfectly OK with me. I try not to force myself on others.
    1
  4690. @MIKE OXLONG Still waiting for that source. If you don't provide a link soon, you'll be back on ignore. As it will confirm you don't have one. If you had a legit proof, you would not be able to resist posting it.
    1
  4691. @MIKE OXLONG Still waiting for that millionaire source. Me thinks you goofed and seized on the first Daniel N that popped up in your google search. Don't worry, this is a common truther boo boo witness their claims of hijackers still alive. They seem to think the hijackers' names were unique.
    1
  4692. @MIKE OXLONG "Do you think I work for you or something?" That's the oldest trick in the truthers' book. When you screw up with your pathetic research skills, pretend I'm too stupid to find the link. Hah. You are as see through as they come. A bad sport who knows no bounds.
    1
  4693. @MIKE OXLONG I do think I shall be waiting quite a while. If such a source existed you would have posted it by now. You think I'm that stupid, right? This is the OLDEST Youtube poster trick there is. You're the one who has the burden to back up YOUR claim. You think I should back up YOUR claim??? That's not how reasonable debate works. I'll give you 24 more hours. Feel free to expend your energy with another ridiculous reply rather than spend that same amount of time copying your alleged source. Truthers, especially the bullying kind, are so endearing in their own strange way.
    1
  4694. @MIKE OXLONG Remember how this little tussle started. We were having this perfectly friendly and civil conversation. I gave you literally mounds of firefighter quotes proving the fires were major, and the collapse predicted. Then you said, "heard from who?" And I answered that as well. Then suddenly without warning or provocation from me you accuse me of deleting your posts. This was the turning point which revealed your deceptive nature. I called you on it, and your melt down has only grown worse with time. This all started with a unproven allegation. You know perfectly well what kind of character you have. I am honest, you are not. It's that simple.
    1
  4695. @MIKE OXLONG "Here's a little clue, the source I have has a photograph of him, then his net worth then his very low ranking as a minor celebrity." OK I'll have another look. But even if it's true it proves absolutely nothing. Is there some reason you're so afraid to back up your claims the way most people do?
    1
  4696. @MIKE OXLONG OK, you're right I admit it. I was wrong. It says his salary is $226,000 year. I get the truther boo boo award of the hour. See, that's called honesty. The real question is, who cares? edit: and unlike you, I'm not deleting my above posts because that would be dishonest.
    1
  4697. @MIKE OXLONG Your continued implication I deleted your posts is dishonesty in and of itself.
    1
  4698. @MIKE OXLONG "How are you commenting on their content then?" Say wah? There's this thing called memory. This is really getting to be quite ridiculous.
    1
  4699. @MIKE OXLONG Silverstein / pull it. He said he received a call from the fire department commander, so that might well have been chief Nigro. I know where you are going with this. Correct me if wrong, but you seem to be assuming that because, in his abbreviated nutshell account on the famous video, he didn't explicitly say the conversation took place some hours beforehand, you make the assumption that the conversation happened just before the collapse. Another example of assumption and belief versus actual evidence.
    1
  4700. @MIKE OXLONG By my reading of the BBC's explanation, they didn't lose it but deliberately got rid of it, as it was a dud report. Doesn't really move the needle for me.
    1
  4701. @MIKE OXLONG "So you fully read and remembered a long detailed comment" Kindly point out where in my posts I spell out in "long detail" all of the particulars of your posts. I just remember the basics. I remember the key point where you started to make up stuff about me. and then having a meltdown. Who could possibly forget that? You're recent batch of posts are taking us nowhere IMO.
    1
  4702. @MIKE OXLONG Perhaps this question might get us somewhere more useful. Kindly find even ONE uncontroversial, unambiguous example where the term "pull it" refers to controlled demolition by anyone in the demolition business.
    1
  4703. @MIKE OXLONG "If it was 3 hours after he would say and then sometime later the building collapsed?" Maybe he forgot to? Maybe because he decided not to give a meticulous timeline for a short quote? Maybe because he wanted to piss you off? Who the heck knows or cares. If you picked apart every major news event as obsessively as thruthers do, you would find and endless supply of facts and quotes that could support any conclusion you favor. This is the very essence of being biased. Go by solid facts not by endless unproven speculation.
    1
  4704. @MIKE OXLONG "find me one" Oh that's just too easy. If you did your homework, you would know already. Give me 5 minutes and I'll get back to you.
    1
  4705. @MIKE OXLONG quotes from 9/11 firefighters: "Finally they pulled us out. They said all right, get out of that building because that 7, they were really worried about. They pulled us out of there." "...but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini..." "so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety." "Hayden: 'Yeah, we had to pull everybody back. It was very difficult. We had to be very forceful in getting the guys out. They didn’t want to come out. There were guys going into areas that I wasn’t even really comfortable with, because of the possibility of secondary collapses. We didn’t know how stable any of this area was. We pulled everybody back probably by 3 or 3:30 in the afternoon.' " More recently "Officials on Monday afternoon decided to pull firefighters out for the day, according to a joint statement from Williamstown Fire Chief Craig A. Pedercini, ..." OK, not pull "it" but that's a lot better than controlled demo. At least that's half of the expression, whereas controlled demolition boasts zero part of that expression.
    1
  4706. @MIKE OXLONG maybe maybe maybe "Indeed, why ask questions at all" It's fine to ask questions. But to seize on ambiguous points of grammar, usage, and every last little jot and tittle of alleged deviation from alleged normal practice and obsess on them, avoids the more substantive elements of 9/11. Just MO.
    1
  4707. @MIKE OXLONG "What about if someone was eating a pulled pork sandwich at the time of collapse? that proves no explosives were used?" Misses the point. If "pull it" could mean two different things, then there's no proof of anything from that expression. I believe it's far more likely it meant get the firefighting operation out. But I never said proof.
    1
  4708. @MIKE OXLONG Yes, it's ambiguous. It's only a certainty to people who think in black and white terms and cannot see nuance. "the whole accepted use of a language" This is the logical flaw known as begging the question. Neither you nor I can come with a link to the exact phrase "pull it." So this "whole accepted use" is just your opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less.
    1
  4709. @MIKE OXLONG "You just wanted to corner it here and have had to concede on this occasion. " I wanted to point out there's nothing remotely approaching a proof "pull it" is a term used for controlled demolition. This is a truther invention. There is no basis for it. Just because YOU think that's what it means doesn't make it so. I don't have a proof of anything. It's just my opinion.
    1
  4710. @MIKE OXLONG "whole use of a language is not as we understand it." Classic trutherism. Taking a kernel of truth and going that step too far. When I first saw the segment, I too was like, WTF? It's natural to have that intuition. But to morph that into an agreed upon understanding is the element of exaggeration that makes truther types so endearing. Just like morphing your missing posts into me being a government agent. Do you see a pattern?
    1
  4711. The evidence may seem overwhelming until you do some detective work. I'll give you a hint. Fred Meyer's official witness statements indicate the fireball took just 10 seconds to reach the water.
    1
  4712. I've seen plenty such comments. Voting for a traitor and lying scumbag is the ultimate sign of human depravity. And you don't care??
    1
  4713. It wasn't shot down. Why wouldn't they have fought back? Based on what? Your personal speculation?
    1
  4714.  @colormered13  Of course. And when prices rise, unemployment surges, and his popularity plummets, his supporters will get exactly what they deserve.
    1
  4715. Since anyone with a brain can figure out that faking flight 93 had no discernible effect on the outcome of nineleve, the theory is nonsense. Plus everything else you said is wrong too, as pointed by The CriticalStinker.
    1
  4716. Yeah I know. They are all up to no good. BUT, nothing can top 45's Big Lie. That is the centerpiece of pure unadulterated fraud.
    1
  4717. And never forget that computer discs can only be destroyed by controlled demolition. Who would have guessed but for 911 truth.
    1
  4718. It can, but with so few passengers on this flight, it likely would not be critical.
    1
  4719. True. But is that supposed to be any better?
    1
  4720. I think there has been excess hate in this trial. However I don't know the full profile of the defendant. To me, manslaughter in principle should be limited to about 20 years. There is a vengeance element I sense here though. Complete and total reducing the defendant to an almost subhuman. Reminds me of the Nazis, frankly.
    1
  4721. What would you propose. torture?
    1
  4722. Well you still have to lock him up or it sends the message it's OK to kill.
    1
  4723. But there's no logical reason to fake flight 93. Think Big Picture.
    1
  4724. Hard to say if Van Zanten was motivated by greed. As co-pilot Bragg observed later, it's human nature to rush. "We all have the tenency..." And as Mentour Pilot stated, the decision to refuel at Tenerife was operationally sound.
    1
  4725. Good point. Maybe it's just primordial hardwiring.
    1
  4726. And you have verified all of this yourself? Could you prove the bible's word in a court of law, with a panel of biblical experts? Go for it.
    1
  4727. @Sleepy Hollow Show us.
    1
  4728.  @passionforyarn1990  But they don't follow it, do they.
    1
  4729. @Sleepy Hollow What I'm specifically asking is proof that the bible is the word of God. Lots of people have read the bible and don't see a convincing proof of God in its pages. So rather than ask ME to find the proof, why don't you? You're the one who says you have it. Rather than ask me to read the entire thing, why don't you start by citing some passages that you think are going to help me. Then I will gladly mull those passages over. But you cannot, say, bring the bible to a court of law, or a panel of scientists, or skeptics and say, "Here's the bible. That's my proof." That's not how proof works - as I'm sure you would agree.
    1
  4730. @Sleepy Hollow "what does a court of law have to do with the Bible?" It's just an example of venues which require serious evidence gathering; places where you would expect a high standard of evidence .So, court of law, peer review journals, writings which conform to rigid standards of historiography and so on.
    1
  4731. @Sleepy Hollow There are a number of reasons why I find the notion of a biblical God perplexing. Consider the famous passage from Leviticus which states that if you curse your parent you should certainly be put to death. Do you find that passage at all problematic?
    1
  4732. @Sleepy Hollow "Scientists recently discovered that the universe had a beginning." Well I'm not so sure there's a scientific consensus on that. An essay by Stephen Hawking, for example, was recently uncovered which stated he's not sure there was "nothing" before the Big Bang. To me, it's no more problematic to suppose God was always there than to suppose matter (or "something" was always there. Both theories are perplexing and not self-explanatory.
    1
  4733. @Sleepy Hollow And BTW I do appreciate your taking time to discuss these things. For me, the proof is all around us there's no biblical God. That proof is the suffering all around us: genocides, babies being blown up, torture, you name it. It seems to me the prevailing theory among believers is that we all brought this on ourselves. But if this is so, it implies a few unpalatable or questionable assumptions: -that, short of acts of violence, ordinary sins deserve cruel and gratuitous punishment -the paradox that if God is perfection, why was it necessary to improve things? -If God is omniscient, and all powerful, his believers have made him out to be impotent: he cannot create a world without suffering -knowing in advance man would turn against him, he still thought it important to bring into operation a system he knew would cause great suffering - and then of course blame it on us. None of this makes the slightest sense to me, and I have found the traditional stock answers to be pretty silly, to be honest. For example, believers say that giving man free will allowed us to choose suffering. But, for example, it doesn't follow that man would not have free will if, say, God did not hardwire us for violence to begin with. Or was God also rendered impotent because he has no control over the very existence of violence. Or alternatively, God could foresee which people would misuse their free will, and thus leave them out of his creation. Then all the remaining humans would be both free of sin, but also have free will. Thank you for your replies.
    1
  4734. @Sleepy Hollow And as I mentioned above, the very idea of killing someone for cursing - how can that kind of sentiment have any place in any context within a loving and wise Being? Would you ever say such a thing, IN ANY CONTEXT?
    1
  4735. @Sleepy Hollow You've said a lot of interesting things. Thank you. I'll pick just one point for this post. "That implies that it had to be put there." Why? If we say it's literally impossible that something could have "always been there," then why wouldn't that also apply to God? Why is God exempt from the rule? If God could always have been there, then why not matter also? I think it wiser to be humble and say we humans in our infinite unwisdom and perpetual state of stupidity (by God's standards) are not in any position to claim absolute knowledge in this realm. We don't even know how our minds really work, we still can't cure the common cold, but somehow we ought to be smart enough to definitively parse the universe and all its mysteries? That doesn't work for me. OK, those are my thought for now. Thank you for being a good sport.
    1
  4736. @Sleepy Hollow I will be retiring from this thread for the evening. I may have more to say tomorrow. You have been very polite and I appreciate it.
    1
  4737.  @cynthiacronin2794  When does the fetus acquire rights? Do zygotes have rights?
    1
  4738. Who said it did?
    1
  4739. The melting only happened after many days of cooking under the debris pile. Nothing surprising there. Unless you are a twoofer.
    1
  4740. Whatever the exact reason, this tampering was done just weeks before the crash, implicating Turkish Airlines. Either they inadvertently turned the locking pin the wrong way, or, tired of delays, deliberately turned it the wrong way. It was the final hole in the Swiss cheese. The door was so lacking in resistance that "a sickly child" could have closed it.
    1
  4741.  @naughtiusmaximus830  I believe there were streaks of light, but more probably they were burning streaks of fuel during the beginning of the main fireball. Note that star missile witness Fred Meyer initially told investigators he saw a streak of light, followed almost immediately by an explosion. All three helicopter pilots concurred this fireball reached the ocean in 10 seconds. This suggests late stage event, as no way is an airliner going to fall 13k ft in 10 -15 seconds. That's the reason why IMO he later changed his story: to make it fit with his ordnance bias. The missile theory is also seriously out of sync with the known timeline of the event. Few witnesses spoke of TWO explosions, which would have to have been the case for a shoot down: the initiating event, then a pause of 30-40 seconds as it descended to about 6,000 ft (confirmed by radar and airborne witnesses), then the big fireball which happened at about 6,000 ft, then the final drop to the ocean. It was the fireball that caused most people to look up. If you can find a missile witness that matches these known facts, I am all ears.
    1
  4742.  @officialmkamzeemwatela  Would you respect a culture that advocated executing all black people?
    1
  4743.  @davidandthatotherguy1369  Which culture is that?
    1
  4744.  @stopcensorship7705  Name one US state where having s-x with a minor is legal.
    1
  4745. And don't count yourself just because you're an overgrown minor.
    1
  4746.  @davidandthatotherguy1369  If you want to get technical, Yes. But the flaw here is implying homosexual love is just as objectionable as pedophilia or incest. While some forms of incest may not cause harm, many others do; and pedophilia is at great risk of causing life long emotional trauma. Being there's precious little evidence that gay relationships are inherently harmful. Some things gays do might be said to have harmful effects on society. If that's the case, the campaign should be against some forms of activism, and promiscuity. Condemn those, but don't condemn otherwise harmless private relations within the bedroom.
    1
  4747.  @davidandthatotherguy1369  "What about aids or hiv don't gay people have a higher risk getting those diseases?" Do you really want to go down this path? By this logic we should note that geographically, Africa is the epicenter of the HIV epidemic. So, whatever one concludes about the risk factor of gay people should be the same for African people. What would you conclude by this data?
    1
  4748.  @davidandthatotherguy1369  "Expect you said being gay is not harmful and I proved you wrong." You obviously didn't read my post: "there's precious little evidence that gay relationships are inherently harmful. Some things gays do might be said to have harmful effects on society." So you proved me right. You have not demonstrated that gay relationships are inherently harmful. Only that some gays engage in deleterious behavior, such as promiscuous sex.
    1
  4749.  @davidandthatotherguy1369  "Now as for the hiv pandemic starting in afirca the way HIV is transmitted is by injection of needles or sex with a individual who has another penis and you have a penis to." You want to keep demonstrating your ignorance: "In sub-Saharan Africa, the main mode of HIV transmission is through heterosexual sex with a concomitant epidemic in children through vertical transmission. As such, women are disproportionately affected accounting for 58% of the total number of people living with HIV, have the highest number of children living with HIV and the highest number of AIDS related deaths." The other main factors are: poverty, lack of adequate medical care, also "polygamy and promiscuity practiced in different regions of Africa favors the spread of HIV / AIDS." And so does "Sexual violence against women: South Africa, one of the countries most affected by the epidemic, has one of the highest rates of rape in the world. Many women get AIDS because they were raped by an HIV-infected offender." A little research is all it takes to get things right. ​
    1
  4750.  @davidandthatotherguy1369  David that other guy is just the latest Youtube example of someone who's primary degree is in Bedroom Management.
    1
  4751.  @davidandthatotherguy1369  "Your point is?" It speaks for itself.
    1
  4752. Once the dust obscured our vision, it's hubris to pretend you know how much dust there was. Did she have X-ray vision?
    1
  4753.  @SlowJamminJames  I wasn't about to spend that kind of money but I did see her interviewed by a gentleman whose first name was Jeremy [make that Greg Jenkins]. He seemed as dumbfounded as I was.
    1
  4754. That's not relevant.
    1
  4755.  @grone07  How many of the hull losses were design related? THAT's what's relevant.
    1
  4756.  @grone07  After reviewing the data I get 4 events design related: AA Chicago, AA Dallas (1988), Turkish flight 981, UA flight 232 I may have missed one or two. So feel free to correct. If you are satified, would you care to subtract out the other 28 events? I have that strange feeling I won't be hearing back from you.
    1
  4757. Link doesn't work.
    1
  4758. But his lone example proves nothing. The chatboxes just show the cleverness of the human beings who programmed them. They are designed to "appear" creative and to choose answers that reflect a huge range of human responses. It's even possible the chatbox was specifically fed certain specific responses to "give it a sense of humor." This reminds me of the fantastic claims of Erich Daniken & Co, who put forth that aliens must have built the pyramids, or the Easter island statues, because we humans couldn't possibly have figured out how to do it ourselves.
    1
  4759.  @kingofhuecomundo9394  Responding to your own post. The need for attention never ceases with you guys.
    1
  4760. "He was just as culpable." 2:55 This is an example where pure rage, aided and abetted by the poorly conceived felony murder rule, has blinded people to what justice is all about. I'm sorry, but life in prison is for worst case crimes only. Bryan is a despicable racist to be sure. But his crime was not intentional murder, period. It shows how blind rage matters more than justice. And that people are driven by primal impulses more than reason and reflection.
    1
  4761. Not sure though if it was any safer. It had several design shortcomings and a constant flow of ADs. The rollover tendency was one of the most serious of any contemporary type, and plagued by more issues than the A-330/40 and 777. I would have been much more reluctant to fly one than the DC-10.
    1
  4762. But to really push the issue, a terrorist attack can go either way. In this case it resulted in tragedy. In another it could very well prevent one. Imagine a terrorist bomb going off at Taipei back in 2000. It might have saved Singapore Airlines flight 6.
    1
  4763. I support what the families want. But at the same time that's bowing to our dark side, IMHO. He seems too psychotic to even comprehend the meaning of such a punishment. Is the world made a better place by torturing our enemies?
    1
  4764. Actually, you are just guessing about the causes. The GWAS suggests up to 8-25% may be genetic. You need to provide disproof of that. Let's see it. Then we have the prenatal hormonal theory of homosexuality which has not been studied extensively, but may well be the answer to the fraternal birth order effect, which HAS been well established. With such uncertainties it's hubris to claim you know it doesn't involve some biological input. But if you have such evidence to conclusively rule it out, please share.
    1
  4765. What's life going to do? Allow him to experience his punishment for a lifetime. A bullet is the easy way out.
    1
  4766.  @cool4ever329  Yes. It's all around bad no matter how you parse it. I find it hard to believe in God when these things happen. Not that I ever did, really.
    1
  4767.  @amybronjames  I like the fact you take on all these sad characters. But why not say something a little more substantive than these bizarre attempts at humor that no one is getting but you?
    1
  4768.  @amybronjames  QED
    1
  4769.  @songsthatarecatchy  That's right. The police were the most irresponsible party here. Risking lives for a speeder.
    1
  4770. But in this case it turns out it wasn't legal. So that's 2 strikes against the Ms. The third strike, that this was a hate crime, is IMO somewhat more questionable though.
    1
  4771.  @ulyssesgrant2782  Sure, I will try to. People who only see in black and white are not helping the discussion. Nuance is key. You're not interested in that. And that's OK. We all choose different standards of seriousness.
    1
  4772. Cruelty at the failing of others is as old as mankind.
    1
  4773. Do you respect the West's values?
    1
  4774. @Daniel Lawson Then why should we respect their values? That's known as a double standard.
    1
  4775. Disgusting is one thing. Signing off on life in prison is the act of a backwards person, and a depraved mind.
    1
  4776. Not Bryan. No evidence he committed malice murder.
    1
  4777. It may not even show that. In prison, you go with what's available, regardless of your orientation. Just like when you're alone, you go with your hand. That doesn't make you a "hand sexual."
    1
  4778. I've been thinking that perhaps the conviction free will doesn't exist is self-refuting. Under total determinism, you cannot freely choose your own thoughts. So that would include the thought or conviction that free will doesn’t exist. Now I’m sure I must be missing something here. So any thoughts welcome.
    1
  4779.  @turundtor891  Well here's a basic question I have, which I have not solved yet. Does knowledge require free will?
    1
  4780.  @turundtor891  I'm just speculating. There are certain things we seem to have absolute knowledge of: such as, you can't be 50 years unless you were once 30 years old. But under determinism you could be made to have the false belief you could be 50 before you were 30. But if in fact we cannot be made to have such a false belief, it means we seemingly have the free will to know absolutely that is true. SO, the claim of 100% determinism seems to undermine our confidence that determinism is true. I'm not expressing this very well, but I hope I might have given a flavor or what I mean. cheers
    1
  4781.  @turundtor891  Interesting, thanks. Now let me ask you, how can we know for sure we have no free will at all? Or are you saying it's merely likely that we don't have any?
    1
  4782.  @turundtor891  Thank you for your thoughts. Nice discussion.
    1
  4783. Slayers of infants devoid of all the qualities that make human life valuable. That's why there's a debate.
    1
  4784.  @youawesome2068  No one has yet provided a definitive proof abortion is wrong. Your post continues in that tradition.
    1
  4785.  @ValerieRaya  Yes, but there's also the issue of the moral status of the embryo/ fetus. Not all people who are pro life are misogynistic. It might be convenient to think so, but debates like this are rarely as simplistic as some make them out to be. [edit: Ooops this was addressed to James.]
    1
  4786.  @ValerieRaya  I see the point, but for example, let's consider the case of connected twins. Let's say if you separate, she dies and you live. Does the right to control your own body extend to killing your twin sister by separating from her?
    1
  4787.  @ValerieRaya  Very thoughtful reply. If you care to continue, I have two questions. "I find it immoral to deny anyone the most important human right at any point." So as you well know the standard pro-life answer to this is to claim the embryo/fetus is being denied life when it is aborted. Doesn't that show we do consider on some base level the moral status of an embryo or fetus? Finally, do you have some thoughts on my "Siamese twin" scenario? Is there no moral grey area in granting you the right to effectively kill your twin sister? I'm inclined to say, obviously, no you do not. But I feel unsure of my footing here.
    1
  4788. Give it up. There are now dozens of private videos showing he 2nd plane hit. There are videos showing the plane hit with audiences gasping. If you really think it's even possible the government choreographed all these videos and alleged actors, that puts you in a category way outside of normal psychology and basic matters of judgement.
    1
  4789.  @abdirahmanidris290  If you want to be dismissed as a crackpot, I can't stop you. Please have the final word if you'd like.
    1
  4790.  @abdirahmanidris290  Waste of time but if you insist. What is it that's driving you to re-write visual history? The first point should be obvious. Aside from ATC, no one had a clue where the first plane was. How could they?
    1
  4791. Progress has never been uniform and linear. Maybe you're right. But overall the trends have been in the right direction. In the late 1700s the french would dress up and go to theaters to watch cat burnings. But I agree, sometimes it seems we have made zero progress.
    1
  4792. Really? It seems we are more anti-muslim today.
    1
  4793. Are you of such moral disgrace that you have to choose mass murderer lunatics to be your spokesmen?
    1
  4794.  @stopcensorship7705  You are a sociopath, indifferent to the suffering of others.
    1
  4795.  @stopcensorship7705  So let's test your scientific literacy: "Fraternal birth order has been correlated with male sexual orientation, with a significant volume of research finding that the more older brothers a male has from the same mother, the greater the probability he will have a homosexual orientation. . . .Scientists have attributed the effect to a prenatal biological mechanism, since the association is only present in men with older biological brothers, and not present among men with older step-brothers and adoptive brothers. The mechanism is thought[citation needed] to be a maternal immune response to male fetuses, whereby antibodies neutralize male Y-proteins thought to play a role in sexual differentiation during development." So here is what we call a clue. There is as of now no proof or disproof of the proposed mechanism mentioned above. If you don't agree, cite the proof please.
    1
  4796.  @stopcensorship7705  Let's start with basics. Do you a proof refuting the the "older brother birth order effect" hypothesis? If you have it, do share.
    1
  4797.  @stopcensorship7705  "proof is not there, there is no gae gene, GWAS" Looks like we have to go back to basics. Let's start here: "A polygenic trait is a characteristic, such as height or skin color, that is influenced by two or more genes." Do you believe polygenic traits are real, or just a figure of the imagination?
    1
  4798. Still can't do science, huh? Tell me the name of the height gene.
    1
  4799. If it tries to kill us off, we can pull the plug, can't we?
    1
  4800. Well the biggest cheater of all is Trump himself. Why do you think neither he nor you nor anyone has come up with the proof of a stolen election? Because he's a cheater. He doesn't BELIEVE in proof. Cheaters always break the rules to fool others. Cheaters make up s--t all the time, like immigrants eating pets. If that's MAGA, I'm grateful I'm not one of them. How can you condone all this?
    1
  4801. Yes, women are sex objects to men, and men are mainly seen as resources for women.
    1
  4802.  @amirhassanmonajemi9573  A good argument, but not fool proof. The events are rare but not totally without precedent. The FAA came up with a "list of 26 fuel-tank explosions dating back to 1959." The only unique thing about 800 is that it was the only one that was not result of an external catalyst (if you believe the official report.) Examples include The Thai airways 737 ground explosion -Air Canada DC-9 exploded in a maintenance hanger. -"2006, the wing tank of a Boeing 727 exploded on the ground in Bangalore, India." if there was no risk, why have the authorities now made safety measures mandatory: "A final rule was enacted by in 2008, and 100 percent compliance with the rule became mandatory on December 26th of 2017" These rules have lead to both Airbus and Boeing adding safeguards against the hazard.
    1
  4803.  @amirhassanmonajemi9573  "SAM missile that penetrated the fuel tank near the wing root." I don't think it can be ruled out. But then, what are the odds of a US airliner being shot down by the US Navy? It has never happened before either.
    1
  4804. So you love mass murderers Go for it.
    1
  4805.  @stopcensorship7705  Keep singen those butchers' praises. They love it.
    1
  4806. Well, I blame MD as much because they didn't literally tell them not to do it that way either.
    1
  4807. Where've you been? They are serving life sentences.
    1
  4808.  @Sparxy-k9e  Yes. But this sample seems more skewed to what Africans think. And then they draw in westerners (and others) where such views aren't tolerated where they live. In that sense this video is a hate site, I give Africans a little slack because it seems the culture is so (by our standards) fanatically against gays. They have a very different culture and a different sense of what justice is, so I don't feel comfortable equating it to the "hate" we call it in the West. But maybe I'm totally wrong.
    1
  4809.  @JonathanAnthonyAltieri  Well this video has become a hate sight. So no surprise there. If CNN had any sense, they would take it down,
    1
  4810.  @koala5054  For you it's not so much hate as a site for toddlers. Like the anal phase of development, fascination with feces. In that, you have a lot in common with gays.
    1
  4811.  @Peep-010  You guys are the haters, not me. Do you have dyslexia perhaps. I love thine enemies.
    1
  4812.  @ijumpjudyy  Or auto mechanics.
    1
  4813. I have full respect for the rights of trans people. But that does not translate into running roughshod over non trans people. I am willing to even grant them redefining the term gender. But trans men in womens' prison is a huge violation of the golden rule. And we all know that many trans men just say they are to have acces to women's private spaces. It's so shameful that even supporters of trans rights have bought this preposterous view that majority opinion should be extinguished in the dressing room.
    1
  4814.  Daniel Treadwell  You can refute 9/11 truth's main thesis in 2 seconds. Any of the following will do: -By 9:37am, all Americans were united in belief we were at war with terrorists. No demolitions required. -Flight 93 served no conceivably useful purpose, as shown by the fact the outcome would have been the same. -If Iraqi oil was the goal, why were the hijackers made out as Saudis? Any of these three points says more than the common claims of 911 skeptics.
    1
  4815. You can add Turkish Airline to the list of negligent actors. They tampered with the mechanism only a few months before, which is why it took until March 1974 to crash.
    1
  4816.  @JohnStedman-d4s  Ryanair? I would never have guessed. But hey, if it helps counter the pathetic safety culture of the psychopath that runs the airline, I'm all for it.
    1
  4817. Some people are so sick they may not be able to WANT to help themselves. Remember, these are not just normal people who screwed up, they are so incredibly different than you or me, and we kid ourselves when we try to imagine them being anything like us.
    1
  4818. It's such a shame neither country can deal with the conflict as grown ups.
    1
  4819. Hmmm. Has this condemnation gone a bit overboard? OK, she seems to have a few loose screws, and seems to be racist on some level. But a lot of the charges mentioned by Parkman are unproven allegations by this lady she fired. She said she used the n-word once. In what context? It's so vague. The other stuff about the wedding and her great grandfather, that suggests racism, yes. But without real proof of being a racist, and intentional desire to hurt, are some going just a little too far?
    1
  4820. OK, but voting for a moral lunatic, traitor, bald-faced liar who sought to decieve the country that he won in 2020, spitting on the military, and an overall disgrace to civilized people everywhere , is a steep price to pay. We should not base our voting decisions on a single issue.
    1
  4821. Except for Bryan.
    1
  4822.  @martincoulombe8960  I believe pilots myself. When I used to work as a limo driver, I would often ask commercial pilots about the so-called Hanjour maneuver. Most of them had no problem with it. Maybe you should try yourself sometime, although at this late point in time, you might get fewer replies. You see, the media lies theme is not very useful because the truthers lie even more. And they never choose to publish their articles in science or engineering journals.
    1
  4823.  @martincoulombe8960  "hey will lead you to a dead-end" Except that you do accept them when they confirm your bias, such as the BBC's announcement that building 7 fell before it fell. I am quite sure you trust that media story 100%. Right?
    1
  4824.  @martincoulombe8960  And as I'm sure CriticalStinker could have told you, DRG traffics in lies, to quote Ronald Wieck. He corrected DRG's claim that flight 11 had no working airfones by calling up the airline directly. Yet even after this correction, DRG never changed his story. BTW the video in question is perhaps the best and easy to understand explanation why gravity brought down the TTs and not CD.
    1
  4825. Lord of violence.
    1
  4826. ​ @emiliabonito2425  So am I.
    1
  4827. You can only see your side of the issue?
    1
  4828. You're being naive if you think they should have taken a chance and not shot it. The risk was too great.
    1
  4829. Actually I think it can do 380.
    1
  4830. Yes, we have no right to but in to your values. But Museveni's sins are far worse than the West's. Uganda's most notorious mass murderer is in no position to lecture the West about values. We but in, he mows down peaceful protesters. We want gay rights, he tortures dissidents. No comparison. Tinpot dictators who run sham elections and celebrate violence should concern all of humanity.
    1
  4831. No way. By that standard you have the right to execute reckless drivers on the spot.
    1
  4832. I think there's some justification for this distinction. I'm not saying this applies to you, but keep in mind that some men might not see the harm, in that a lot of boys might not have the same reaction were they the victims. As a man, I would be disgusted it this had happened to me, but I don't think I would have seen it as a big trauma either. Perhaps as a whole, girls see this through a very different lens. Just speculating.
    1
  4833.  @Anklespank  Well it's certainly possible. It would be interesting to know the reaction of all 100+ girls. I personally tend to believe what most victims say until there's some real evidence of fraud. But we live in the grip of feminist dogma right now. "Thou shalt believe women" is to be obeyed unconditionally. A more sensible formulation might be, "As a general rule, I tend to believe most women, sure thing. Until such time as credible evidence to the contrary is presented." But that's a little too long and thoughtful to be a useful slogan by today's gender warriors.
    1
  4834. "No professional captain would ever charge down the runway when visibility is zero, unless he was told it was all clear." Yes, but the visibility was not zero. The captain obviously thought he had the correct clearance, so it wasn't necessarily a conscious choice.
    1
  4835.  @knowethjc29  No I'm not. I am using my brain to get to the truth. You are not. You are just another Youtube nobody who doesn't understand the nature of proof and evidence, and knows nothing about aviation safety. You are also very cocky, just like Van Zanten. These qualities are not helpful in getting at the truth.
    1
  4836.  @knowethjc29  That's right. You hit the nerve that causes rational people to wince when confronted with big shots.
    1
  4837.  @knowethjc29  But if you want instead to have a rational and logical discussion, I am up for it. You say I am making excuse by saying "he thought he had the clearance." That means you think he deliberately breached the rules. That's virtually unthinkable. For one, you are claiming he's on a suicide mission. For another, a deliberate unauthorized take off would mean he would be reported and face penalties including possible jail. That's why you don't get it. You don't think of the implications of what you're saying.
    1
  4838.  @knowethjc29  I'm not making excuses for him. There's no question he was the cause of the crash. Yes, he was very impatient. It's doubtful he was trying to take off the first time. There are two other possibilities. He was pre-revving the engines, a common practice on early 747s. So Meurs' "wait a minute" could well have meant "Hey, you are doing your pre-rev prematurely." Also, there's something known as a short field take off. By revving before you release the brakes you get going more quickly, which is a legal maneuver that perfectly matches his impatient state. I was once on such a TWA flight out of Boston. It makes for a more exiting take off! As to his arrogance, there's not a whole lot to go on, except slavishly accepting everything you see in these docudramas. You can't be so trusting of everything you watch. In reality there's not a whole lot of evidence he was all that arrogance. Others describe him as affable and believed in a cockpit partnership as evidenced by his insistence his crew call him by his nickname. Careless, yes, but that can be due to getting yourself in a stressful state. Once again, a deliberate unauthorized take off could have been career ending. Or jail. He was not a stupid man. Also, the fact he began his take roll upon hearing the words "you are clear" is more evidence this was an error.
    1
  4839.  @knowethjc29  You have no proof to back up your speculations. The CVR would not be of much help here. What makes you think it would?
    1
  4840.  @knowethjc29  Revving engines was common practice on the early 747s as the spool up was often uneven. There's a topic devoted to this at PPRuNe, the preeminent commercial pilots forum. You know better than them? The Pan Am first officer had this to say about Van Zanten. He called him a "gentleman who got himself into a hurry. We all have a tendency to do it." Do you know more than him? You're problem is you elevate speculation to facts. And then ridicule anyone who disagrees. Go ahead, ridicule the 1st officer of the Pan Am plane.
    1
  4841.  @knowethjc29  Where do you get your big ego theory from? By watching a video and treating it as the Gospel? The myth of Van Zanten's huge ego has been accepted as sacrosanct for decades despite anything resembling a real proof ever provided. Didn't you parents teach you, don't believe everything you read/watch/see?
    1
  4842.  @knowethjc29  "actually CFR showed he was agitated when he couldn't land because of the bomb threat and then he got even more agitated and impatient," BTW that's CVR, not that it matters. The public has never heard the CVR. How do you know captain Van Zanten was agitated before he even got to Tenerife? Please cite that evidence.
    1
  4843.  @knowethjc29  "btw I said cvr not CFR" You wrote: "have U even read the CFR?" When you want a serious discussion, let me know.
    1
  4844.  @BrownWolverine  Yes you can. The title is worst crash, not worst non-hijacking maintenance error. This is on one level semantics of course. But if you really want to be consistent with how air crashes are usually complied, they include sabotage (witness Pan Am 103), and also always list ground fatalities. So it's interesting how this basic standard is often dispensed with in the case of 9/11. Of course, our intuitions may speak more to your side of things.
    1
  4845.  @Terraceview  He is probably confusing flight 96 with 981. The coffin was flight 96 and there were no (live) people sucked out.
    1
  4846. No it wasn't.
    1
  4847. All that's lacking is the proof. Nothing new in Trutherville, where the complete lack of proof is their gold standard.
    1
  4848.  @shillhunter2.076  See answer in other thread.
    1
  4849.  @shillhunter2.076  Look at the thread where you asked me the same question.
    1
  4850.  @ChristianMartin-s2z  Isn't it fascinating how belief works.
    1
  4851. But hardly impossible. I've spoken to airline pilots about it, the consensus I got was a far cry from truther belief.
    1
  4852. The claim has been around for 22 years. What's the new information?
    1
  4853.  @Marc816  I think they mention this theory in the Popular Mechanics book on 911, which came out many years ago. At one point the text could be found online for free.
    1
  4854.  @supermanepic15  I can only give you my personal speculation. The terr-ist themselves were quoted as saying they were surprised the buildings collapsed. Even without the collapses this event shook America to its core. Before any collapses, we were all in a state of shock. Were you alive back then? We were scared as never before. That is the goal of terr-ism. No collapses were required. The searing images of the towers, and the people jumping was already unprecedented. No previous T attack on the US or its assets ever came close.
    1
  4855. I support Israel in general. But the latest war is over the top, and protesting US support of Israel is now a valid concern. It doesn't make you unpatriotic.
    1
  4856. While I appreciate where you are coming from, the idea that the vast majority of men are dense, and a truly understanding man is like finding a needle in a haystack, seems to me way over the top. If one gets to know a wide variety of men they will find plenty of decency; men committed to equal rights; walking in anti-violence marches alongside women; speaking out against rape culture. These sexist attitudes are also largely shared by women too. I wouldn't doubt that there are many men as you describe. But sometimes I wonder if the expectations are unrealistic. Like Jody Allard who laments that her teenage sons rejected the idea of rape culture. As if one expects teenage boys to have fully matured views by the time they are 16.
    1
  4857. How did you get 8:55pm? The report states 5:55pm UTC, 12:55am local.
    1
  4858. It's been commented on that since the exits did not show the numbers on them, the crew was having trouble figuring our which was which, and where ATC started counting them. It's also been said they might have passed #3 without realizing it because it was just at this moment they were listening in and became concerned about the status of the KLM. That said, way too much has been made of this. It was not a serious operational error and was not very relevant.
    1
  4859. What about them?
    1
  4860. Blaine is doing precisely that. Making a ridiculous claim based on the cleverness of how humans have programmed AI.
    1
  4861. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but paper items surviving even fiery plane crashes is nothing new. It pays to do your homework before pontificating.
    1
  4862.  @zariballard  But you have absolutely zero evidence to back up your one-liners.
    1
  4863. I hate to say LOL, given this is no joking matter. But I did anyway.
    1
  4864.  @stopcensorship7705  Well you needed to do that anyway.
    1
  4865.  @stopcensorship7705  In any case you seem to be under the delusion that most psychiatrists see homosexuality as a disorder. Whether it is or it isn't, they don't.
    1
  4866. And also the value judgement most of us have, that it's irrational to commit suicide. There might be some reasonable doubt there as well. My main reason for challenging the verdict is that involuntary manslaughter implies the person cannot adequately or reasonably defend themselves. But unlike say a drunk driving death, where it's crystal clear who killed whom, here there is no such certainty. It's sheer guess work and speculation to assume a suicidally depressed person cannot defend themselves against the mere words of another. How do we we know this beyond a reasonable doubt?
    1
  4867. To an extent you could argue this was another weakness in the system. But it may be that the responsibility for this weakness rested with the training he received. It's not at all clear the baggage handler even knew the peep hole was related to safety. I can come up with about a dozen more relevant causes to this crash. So while I don't totally disagree, it's way down on the hierarchy of contributory factors.
    1
  4868. Or, she is human and made a mistake for which she had little or no control over. This is proven by a field known as heuristics. It shows how even the most competent and careful can be unaware of the glaring error they are making. We have to be open to this before being so sure of ourselves.
    1
  4869. God has not spoken definitively on abortion.
    1
  4870. It is, but Bryan's sentence is really over the top and again highlights the outdated felony murder rule, which flies against basic principles of justice.
    1
  4871.  @WhatSoEverThingsAreLovely  Well that may be true. But he was on trial for murder, not failure to give 1st aid. My concern is the failure to follow due process and reasonable doubt. I don't think they were in this case. Even the verdict of malice murder violated the reasonable doubt principle. This IMH but strong O, is a case of raw emotion bulldozing legal standards. Possibly due to the hysteria in the "ether," the case amounted to a twisting of common sense: that racism is far worse than murder.
    1
  4872. You assume human beings can be perfect at all times. Incorrect assumption.
    1
  4873. You guys don't have any proof whatsoever. Why do you allow yourself to believe without evidence? Where does this kind of mentality come from? The same one that believes in shouting in caps I suppose. If you can't give us a proof, who cares?
    1
  4874.  @TRUMP4PRESIDENT47  You know perfectly well that's a ridiculous statement. If the proof is there, why does everyone keep asking for it? Why doesn't Pillow Man submit his computer code to peer review? Why only a single anonymous cyber expert with a paper bag over his head? It's utterly preposterous. If there was a proof, you would have provided some links. There are no such links. They are pure fantasy. If I am wrong, I am giving you the chance to provide some links. Links that PROVE, not SUGGEST. I expect to wait a long, long time. Because you know you have no idea what a proof even means.
    1
  4875.  @TRUMP4PRESIDENT47  Still waiting for that proof. Doesn't it grate on your conscience that you can't deliver?
    1
  4876.  Drew K  By that same logic, Biden should indeed be the winner when you recall Trump's approval rating was 34% upon leaving office. Shows you don't understand the nature of evidence. It shows you haven't the slightest idea what a proof means. This is precisely how CTs work: a whole lot of speculation, their advocates unable to do basic analysis or scholarly investigation or use consistent logic. The fact is there's not a smidgen of proof, none, zero. Like Jehova's Witness, who keep predicting the end of the world, PillowMan keeps predicting the end of Biden. And you probably believe that too.
    1
  4877.  Drew K  And I'll tell you another thing. The suits against Trump and Giuliani are absolutely justified. Suppose some angry liars consistently claimed your business was a fraud, and as a result you suffered financial loss. Would you shrug your shoulders and say, "Well, the liars are right because it "is our current reality." Or would you take them to court? You know perfectly well what the answer is.
    1
  4878. Reminds me of David Ray Griffin, the 911 guru figure who knew that theology allows you to solve physics problems.
    1
  4879.  @stopcensorship7705  I wrote stupidly. I mean in our domestic affairs. Otherwise you are 100% correct.
    1
  4880.  @stopcensorship7705  Do you judge a president only by gay issues? Do you favor life in prison for gays as he did?
    1
  4881.  @h1F595  Tru-mp's lie of a stolen election is the most preposterous though.
    1
  4882.  @imacomputer101  I think you have dared to apply some empathy to the defendant. It's totally within bounds. I think this drive to totally dehumanize her reminds me a bit of the Nazis. That's bound to be seen as unfair and inflammatory. I am not accusing anyone of being a Nazi, just that the flavor of excessive dehumanization troubles me. Especially the comment "her pain will bring joy to me." This is totally understandable but ultimately it's the dark side of humanity speaking.
    1
  4883.  @sterlingprice5100  "The election was was 100% stolen." All that's missing is the proof. But that doesn't seem to bother anyone. It's what threatens democracy most right now. Because when the Trump crowd takes over, then we will indeed have the fascism they keep saying they fear. How can human beings be this dense is beyond me, and indeed any rational, thinking person.
    1
  4884.  @sterlingprice5100  "If someone goes into my neighbors house and pulls down the shades and they end up being ripped off, I don't need any proof to know who did it." Defective analogy because we don't have an equivalence. In your case, the shades have been ripped off. In the 2020 election there is no equivalent of a ripped off shade. Only speculation it was ripped off. I expect nothing less from people who do not understand the nature of evidence.
    1
  4885.  @sterlingprice5100  anti-white racist party he says. I'm a libertarian, not the fake variety that pretends to be for freedom, but the real thing. This again confirms that the election-was-stolen crowd bases their beliefs on the flimsiest of standards. If you got this wrong, why should anyone believe anything else you say?
    1
  4886. The idea you have to be a liberal to call out the BS is part of the BS package. We have lots of respected conservative thinkers who don't agree with you. I was just watching Ben Shapiro in fact. He's a pretty smart guy and doesn't buy into it. So doesn't former president W. This is not about politics but about basic standards of credibility. The entire stolen election claim is based on the flimsiest standards. They say, "only a few people showed up at a Biden rally." Really?? They also don't understand how numbers work. As Thomas Sowell once eloquently put it, statistics do not just have averages, they have variance. Statistical variance is absolutely in keeping with the dramatic turnaround on election night, where in PA Trump went initially from about 10% ahead to about 2% behind. A 12% difference is ridiculously mundane to anyone who has even the slightest clue about numbers. Especially since here we have an obvious reason: the mail ins were mostly dems and were counted last. And then we have pillowman's sorry cyber expert, you know, the one with the paper bag over his head. Not a single person has confirmed the China theory. If this is your idea of proof, keep on reading the National Enquirer, One thing I do disagree with is, the dems and election authorities should have bent over backwards to do every recount and analysis requested. It would have put to rest all of the claims once and for all. When you have your proof, let us know. I will be the first to acknowledge it.
    1
  4887.  @sterlingprice5100  Sure thing. And when you have that proof, kindly let us know.
    1
  4888.  @sterlingprice5100  You are right if we insist on absolute proof. I don't pretend I have an absolute proof Biden won fair and square. In determining the truth, the best we can do is look at all the potential factors and come to a reasonable judgement. The next question I have for you is, forgetting words like proof and evidence, what is it that causes you to have the belief the election was stolen? Presumably, you did not pull it out of thin air.
    1
  4889. FYI four of your above links are unavailable and listed as private. Much of what I did read above is hardly conforming to scholarly research standards. For example, the nano thermite claims do not pass muster and has been very thoroughly debunked. Just curious, to you also read the debunking arguments and visit their sites, or do you feed yourself a one way diet of 911 truth claims? For example, are you aware of the numerous firefighter quotes that prove 7 was fully engulfed, and the thick smoke that completely obscured the south side of WTC 7? Probably not, am I correct? Just saying.
    1
  4890.  @loudmusickillsthepain648  The original is 37 seconds long, and everyone has seen it. So, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Yes, eventually we see Arbery tugging at the gun. Everyone already knows that. The question is, did he grab it before the first shot? Enhanced FBI video, and Travis' own testimony verifies Travis aimed his shotgun at Arbery 14 second before the first shot. Even if what you say is true, the Ms are absolutely guilty too, by behaving recklessly and creating gross endangerment. This was established by 3 facts -an illegal attempt of citizen's arrest -Greg boasting how he said "stop or I'll blow you're f--ng head off" -As noted above, armed assault with a deadly weapon 14 seconds prior Even excluding the first fact, the other two are more than enough. They were not behaving in good faith, but with malice and contempt.
    1
  4891.  @loudmusickillsthepain648  "Aubrey yanking on the gun is what caused the gun to go off." So we are on the same page, can you verify the full video is 37 seconds long?
    1
  4892.  @loudmusickillsthepain648  Well I don't see how you can tell Arbery caused the gun to go off, since we can't see the gun until after the 1st shot. Sounds more like a theory than a fact.
    1
  4893.  @loudmusickillsthepain648  If you want to convince me, tell me which second in the video shows this. It's readily available still. Because I don't see it, and the trial itself debated this very point. Why would they debate known fact? Thanks
    1
  4894.  @loudmusickillsthepain648  The "fact" that Arbery himself caused the first shot to fire. We cannot see the gun in the video. So that's why I'm asking for. What second or seconds in the video proves this fact. You are making two claims that can't be determined in the video, as I see it. The 2nd one is that Travis never raised his gun. He sure did at about 14 seconds before. And at the time of the first shot, we have no way of knowing whether his gun was raised. You have provided proof of neither. If that's fine with you, that's fine with me.
    1
  4895.  @loudmusickillsthepain648  Finally, as mentioned, by amputating context, you can walk away pretending it was only and all Arbery's fault.
    1
  4896.  @yampy1353  I agree these three men are guilty as hell, and the self-defense argument, from a legal standpoint, is mooted by the context. That said I have a few disagreements. "Travis fired the first shot BEFORE any physical contact." Help me with that. I'm looking above at the same video as you, at 1:27. Can you see clearly enough exactly where Travis is standing? I can't. I also watched some of the trial, including the medical examiner's testimony. Did you watch it? His analysis concluded with the claim that Arbery's hands were easily in reach of the gun when it first fired. Doesn't that throw into question your claim? But let's say that's wrong. It's still very obvious that Travis moved from jogging straight, to suddenly turning towards Travis and charging him. Given that, for all we know Travis' first shot could have therefore been an instinctive act of self defense. Not in the legal sense. But in the sense that any person charged like that is likely going to spontaneously shoot. Certainly a police officer would have shot him. That doesn't make it an excusable offense. But it does IMO, count as reasonable doubt as to what was going on in Travis's mind the instant he pulled the trigger. Maybe it was the obvious rage he showed. But even without the rage, he might still have shot instinctively, as any armed police officer would. That's just how I see it, even though both Travises made it clear they were committing an outrageous act, and committing assault. Therefore, leaving aside the hate crime part of it, in my book, due process demands we don't pretend to be a mind reader, as the judge did, and claim to know exactly what prompted him to shoot. So my verdict is manslaughter, rather than provable malice murder. For me, this is the more sensible middle ground that IMO, has been blindsided because of the race factor. Finally, I think a life sentence for Bryan contradicts one of the most basic principles of justice: life sentences should be reserved for intentional malice murder. The Felony murder rule may be the main culprit here.
    1
  4897. This is spot on. The zoom climb never happened. However, I believe its purpose was to close the lid on all the CT mongering, as by that time they had a credibility issue. It was not necessarily because of a cover-up.
    1
  4898.  @johnstedman4075  "and many uninformed onlookers still falsely believe in myths such as that a so-called 'Chain of Events' always lurks behind the loss of an aircraft," You're right. sometimes it is just a single pilot decision, or an unforeseen freak (United 595?) But in the vast majority of cases, you can usually find more than a single factor? I think the main theme is meant to be this, not an absolute rule.
    1
  4899. Suppose their rules are wife burning, as in pre-colonial India. You're fine with that?
    1
  4900. Not the attraction. The attraction is 100% unchosen, except for bisexuals, by definition.
    1
  4901.  @Jean-luc44  This cuts to the heart of the matter. When gays speak of gay choice, they are talking about the attraction, or an overall orientation. What else could they be talking about? Everyone knows humans can choose to act any way they like. That's a trivial insight. Gays are not arguing over trivial truths that everyone knows about by the time they are 3 years old. This is yet another example of caricaturing, and infantilizing the views of people who don't agree with you. By definition, if you can casually choose between lesbian and straight, that's what it means to be bisexual. This is the conceptual failure that plagues the viewpoint of STAR CITY and others. There's a missing screw in their paradigm. In addition, it doesn't follow that you have to be "lesbian" in order to have sex with a woman and enjoy it. Sexual orientation is defined as an overall pattern of attraction over time. It may also simply be that women are more prone to bisexuality than men. But most women I know who have had lesbian experiences seem to have had only a very few such encounters.
    1
  4902.  @Jonathaninhiscar  If you're trying to be funny, I'd recommend the course, "how to be funny for people who have little comedic talent."
    1
  4903.  @Jonathaninhiscar  Finally, you wrote something that's almost funny. Progress.
    1
  4904.  @Jonathaninhiscar  You need to STFU
    1
  4905.  @Jonathaninhiscar  "REPORTED" Where to? The department of comedic remedial education? I was going to recommend you report there too, but you beat me to it.
    1
  4906.  @Jonathaninhiscar  You're still Tiny Tim in the humor department.
    1
  4907.  @Jonathaninhiscar  And Karen in the looking for trouble department. Kindly remember that you initiated the chain of bad will when you called me a know-it-all.
    1
  4908.  @Jonathaninhiscar  And finally, the F in STFU is also politespeak for Freak. Nice try.
    1
  4909.  @Jonathaninhiscar  "Karen, you need to look in the mirror." You are so unoriginal you have to borrow from me? Tiny Time strikes again.
    1
  4910. @Jonathan A I have no idea who's impersonating you.
    1
  4911. @Jonathan A "I never asked if you knew or not 🤦🏻‍♂ lol" Hello? How can I report someone if I don't know who it is.
    1
  4912. @Jonathan A I am looking back over the thread and see one or two posts from you. That's not enough confirmation for me to know you are being impersonated. I need a little more evidence than that before I report anyone.
    1
  4913. @Jonathan A You should have explained all that from the start. I'm not a mind reader, instead of saying I attacked you. That just makes me more inclined to believe you're a troll. Sorry if he's impersonating you. I just put that name into facebook search and it spits back 9 picks, none of them with that picture. I really have know way of confirming any of this. For all I know you could be impersonating him, or he could be impersonating someone else, or you could both be impersonating each other. So kindly keep me out of it. Thank You.
    1
  4914. Really? Tell that to the 54 peaceful protesters who were mowed down during the last election.
    1
  4915.  @AnetaMihaylova-d6f  You are
    1
  4916. Yep, but if AA 191 had been part of 911, you know the truth movement would have stated it fell through the path of most resistance.
    1
  4917. The real issue is not how many people die in one crash, but how many die in all crashes relative to the number of flights. By that standard, flying is far safer today than before the Jumbo era. There is no comparison.
    1
  4918. At least for the Westerners who post here, it's the perfect excuse to be a bigot. You find a world leader and use that to justify your rage. This is what Youtube is all about: the perfect venue for anonymous mob hate.
    1
  4919. How did the magical government manage to convince most witnesses they saw a 757 instead?
    1
  4920. It can. US Air 427 left debris 2 miles distant despite not being shot down.
    1
  4921. Bryan did not deserve the death penalty if you go by the common sense principle of the punishment being proportional to the crime. His crime was a far cry from malice or 1st degree murder. No way.
    1
  4922. Another mindless claim devoid of any proof. These are the type truthers love best.
    1
  4923.  @Bdhdheksnsb  The government has no need for shills. The truthers' own absurd words are far more effective. No alleged shill can match their absurd musings. Example: your own brain dead post. The idea of paid shills 22 years after the fact on a forum with a trickle of visitors is itself wacky. Keep up the good work. The more you guys post, the deader the truth mvt becomes.
    1
  4924. Found, pictures of it online, DFDR report published online.
    1
  4925. Did that series directly mention this event? I can't remember.
    1
  4926. Because you'll believe anything.
    1
  4927. The kid was not retarded, it's your response and the 100s like it that's retarded. Sane adults don't think like this.
    1
  4928. Because you guys never deliver the truth WHERE THE F IS IT?
    1
  4929. 45 degree list in the dark is probably pretty scary. The video doesn't convey the terror I imagine.
    1
  4930.  @comahtek7496  Not following. She recanted her accusation.
    1
  4931. How come? Because gay means b-t sex?
    1
  4932. In this video they explained why the flag moves. Why do you ignore or reject the explanation?
    1
  4933. Sexist president. Gays also include women.
    1
  4934.  @davidandthatotherguy1369  Yes, but he's implying that gays are disgusting because of b - - sex. Gay women presumably do not do that.
    1
  4935.  @stopcensorship7705  "you can't even define what a woman is" Where did you get that crazy idea from.
    1
  4936.  @recoveringmillennial9695  It may be sustainable if the maternal line theory of homosexuality turns out to be true.
    1
  4937.  @recoveringmillennial9695  How would you know that?
    1
  4938.  @recoveringmillennial9695  Well it's obvious homosexuality is sustainable because gays exist. We see homosexual behavior in many animal species. The maternal line theory is one example of a theory which could explain this. Are you familiar with it? Rarely is a single variable the only explanation for major societal change. What evidence to you have that acceptance of homosexuality is the only or even primary cause of societal collapse? Are you a sociologist by training? Or is it just an intuition?
    1
  4939.  @recoveringmillennial9695  "Not gonna bother reading that, you clearly don't understand that I'm not interested in your side of the argument." Actually that's crystal clear. Like most people who have no interest in having a real conversation, you only care about you, not others. Why would that be so hard for me to understand?
    1
  4940.  @recoveringmillennial9695  "Not at all true, I just don't care about you." Or anything that might challenge your dogmas. This is precisely how they flourish: refusing to provide evidence for simplistic claims, or consider any different point of view. Then abruptly shutting the door on anyone who might be a little inconvenient. A tried and true formula for intellectual cowards.
    1
  4941.  @denniswakabayashi9000  I don't know if the poster is or isn't. But I've learned over the years that very few of the people who say this have any real concern for embryos. It's a massive fraud. They do not cry when an abortion happens.
    1
  4942. Yes, this plagiarism charge is absolutely ridiculous, unless one thinks one can plagiarize punctuation marks. And further, if anything, Dershowitz would have been passing off Peter's work not as his own, but as Mark Twain's. Very odd way to try and take credit for yourself! Finkelstein is a far better scholar than Dershowitz, but he effectively choreographed his own loss of tenure and got what he deserved. And Mohammed? He's a follower, not a thinker.
    1
  4943. The study of heuristics shows that even highly experienced people can make mistakes that are outside of conscious awareness. Thus they cannot be detected as they happen even though it seems utterly obvious to an outside observer. No one is immune. And when under stress, these mistakes are much more likely to happen. Could this have played a role in this accident?
    1
  4944. What would you say is the worst thing Beinart said.
    1
  4945. It's in our hardwiring, though much more so in men.
    1
  4946.  @weirdloverwilde  Bravo
    1
  4947. You are about 50 years behind the times. Then was when you should not have flown. On the major 1st tier airlines they don't crash much anymore. Witness KLM, not a single death since. US jetliners a single death since 2001.
    1
  4948. Ethiopian Airlines flight 302 was almost an exact repeat of flight 93.
    1
  4949. There may be lingering animosity, but the email exchange was such a travesty of poor sportsmanship on Chomsky's part, anyone with an ounce of humanity might feel that way.
    1
  4950. And Leviticus also says that a child who curses his parents should be executed. Some God you worship.
    1
  4951.  @stopcensoring.7959  I'm just pointing out God is not perfect. My feelings are your invention.
    1
  4952.  StopCensorship4--1  "James Charles disagrees." Ha. That's like saying you have a disagreement with Einstein..
    1
  4953.  @bottlecap632  Oh, I've known that from the start. It's just comic relief, even though they are bad at comedy as well.
    1
  4954. They would not because they would lack agency, emotion and desires.
    1
  4955. Prison sentence: I can hardly wait myself.
    1
  4956. "He chased after this kid and shot him." This is where speculation enters the picture. All we know for sure is that Zimmerman "followed him." That can mean at least two different things. Your scenario - a chase where he runs after him in a threatening way. Another possibility is he followed him at a distance to keep an eye on him. How will we ever know for sure? The assumption that Mr. Zimmerman's transgression (following him) was outrageous rather than understandable is playing God, IMO.
    1
  4957. Proof please
    1
  4958.  @markbarger1791  It doesn't matter what a single women did. You need proof of a stolen election nationwide. Again, it shows you can't do basic proofs.
    1
  4959. Why? Because we need a mentally ill president?
    1
  4960. Especially if you have been told these things by the Truth movement. Not even the government can match its pitiful record of fantasy and delusion.
    1
  4961.  @jbbrown1436  Sorry, I thought you were a serious poster for a moment. How silly of me.
    1
  4962. I think they were fined by the FAA some ridiculously small amount.
    1
  4963. It's a good question. While not implicating all men, maybe the answer has something to do with the fact we aren't always willing to acknowledge just how much violence is one of the defining differences between men and women. I hope I'm wrong, but I believe this has a lot to do with biology.
    1
  4964. Yes, the PC notion that rapes isn't about sex has been if not refuted, then at least seriously challenged by the book "The Natural History of Rape." From an evolutionary perspective, for a minority of men, rape is in essence a reproductive strategy. Not consciously of course, but as a means of access to women. For the majority, violence doesn't pay as it tends to be too costly. But for some marginalized men who few women find attractive, rape might be a rational strategy from the point of view of survival of your (or having) offspring, and probably evolved for this reason. I also don't understand conceptually why sex cannot be violent. Is this just wishful thinking?
    1
  4965. Easier to fly a 767 probably.
    1
  4966. Some find it hard to believe. But what's harder to believe is that they made the whole thing up. Who would do that knowing you may get 20 years?
    1
  4967. She was her own worst enemy.
    1
  4968. To the little mind, anything is possible if you shout it loud enough.
    1
  4969. And quite disgusting the company has already invoked an ancient mariner provision strictly limiting their liability. They won't gain much sympathy from this move. Maybe they panicked after getting advice from a maritime lawyer. I hear the diving boat community is like a big family. Doesn't seem like a very family oriented position to take.
    1
  4970. Or persecuted.
    1
  4971.  @GodIsGoodXavier  Or we could talk sensibly.
    1
  4972.  @robm3074  It was said they made a lot of money at Guam. In addition to the fuel crisis I'm thinking the end of the Vietnam War had something to do with dropping the Pacific route, which coincided almost exactly with their pull out date.
    1
  4973. I commend you for doing research, but your conclusions don't add up. Much has been written about the existing scar. But a look at satellite photo pre-9/11 reveals the scar is oriented in a different direction. "From the time flight 93 started til the time it crashed the cockpit door NEVER opened!" C 'mon, you should know that an FDR doesn't record the position of a cockpit door. And the CVR may not pick up the noise of a door opening. The government also never claimed the cockpit door opened. So this is a straw man. And hundreds of claims by the truth mvt are also plane wrong. If you limit your research to truth sites, there's a good chance they will succeed in brainwashing you. I bet, for example, you believe the lie that cell phones couldn't work on flight 93. Am I right?
    1
  4974. Hello, I don't have an ironclad explanation. But I have read enough to know there is also no ironclad smoking gun either. I assume you are referring to the 7A/F/J versions of the JT9D engine. To me this is a classic example of truthers setting into absolute stone a theoretical limitation. Like the idea that the 9/11 planes exceeded their design limits. The design limit has been broken on a number of occasions, and not just on 9/11. For example, Boeing frequently tests their wings to destruction, and they have occasionally survived well beyond their design limit. In this case we have a statement from Boeing itself: "Each 767 is powered by two high-bypass-ratio turbofan engines, which are interchangeable with 747 engines with only minor modifications." Now, if you want to go the next step, we could resolve this with a simple call a la whatever that guy's name was, Jeff? Because without such a confirmation that the two variants are not interchangeable between the two aircraft types, the argument holds no real power. I'm happy to make the call to Boeing if you want. Or maybe you want to make it. Let me know. This is how I like to do "truth." Hands on. What do you say?
    1
  4975.  @VS-rd9vd  So, how am I doing so far?
    1
  4976.  @Cookie-hg4xb  Hello, Well I am finding claims that make no sense at all. Maybe you can help me with this: For example, at 33:55 there's a dark blue slide where she states that the engines had to have gauged the ground because "the top of the fuselage was no more than 20 feet above the ground" and "the huge engines extend 9 feet beneath the bottom and the wings." But this doesn't add up to the official 757 dimensions. As it happens, the 757-200 series fuselage is a full 20 feet above the ground when its landing gear is extended. This means it hit the building at precisely the height it would normally be when on the ground. Which means the engines would clear the ground by 29 inches, their official ground clearance. The right engine actually smashed into a generator a split second before impact. See 911 Case Study: Pentagon Flight 77 at 4:30.
    1
  4977.  @Cookie-hg4xb  Well I've done quite a bit of research over the years, mainly because, and I'm revealing my debunker bias for the purposes of being as fair as possible, from day one I felt that the truth mvt is all up the wrong track. It was my lifelong interest in air safety and the causes of air crashes that made my blood boil when suddenly out of the woodwork came legions of rookie air crash experts who had no idea what they were talking about. Enter 911pilotsfor truth, claimed to be representative of pilot opinion, and run by that idiot fraud Rob Balsamo (examlples include his bogus Flight 77 FRD analysis, and his false claims about Egyptair F990). They and others say the so-called Hanjour maneuver was impossible. And others, such as Niles Harrit, chimed in as well. But have you ever looked at the other side of the aisle? I was a limo driver for many years at Logan airport, and I took up the subject with various pilots as they were waiting for their hotel vans. One Airtran pilot stated it was impossible. But three others vehemently disagreed. One United pilot told me that while it involved some good luck, there was nothing impossible about it. If anything the consensus supported the "Hanjour maneuver." It may well be that today's younger pilot generation hasn't given the matter much thought. Nevertheelss doing your own research, I have found, is the best way to see why 911 truth doesn't add up. Go talk to commercial pilots yourself. Even today, I doubt very highly there is remotely a consensus that this maneuvering was impossible. But if you treat 911 truth sites as the Gospel, and never look at the many refutations of their arguments, it's understandable why many people become reliant on the Honneger/Griffin/Steve Jones worldview, and block out everything else. Not saying you necessarily. But a great many indeed.
    1
  4978. ​ @Cookie-hg4xb  "so hitting a light pole (let alone five) would have caused the plane's wings to erupt in a fireball" You are using personal intuition here. Would be wise to run that point by a physics / crash expert however, as wings of planes have hit things before without exploding. In essence you are also saying that five light poles would cause a 100 ton airliner to come to a screeching halt in under 1.5 seconds, because that is the distance between the building and the farthest pole. That's so far out of the ball park to be safely discarded. Just ask anyone on an air safety forum, or to a crash expert. There is no way that happened. And it did crash soon after: under 2 seconds later !! And how does Honneger account for the poles? Is she saying they were each individually bombed? That makes even less sense than a 757. If I may, the vast majority of serious truthers accept that a real airliner hit the Pentagon. Please Google: Bringing Closure to the 9/11 Pentagon Debate By John D. Wyndham
    1
  4979.  @Cookie-hg4xb  That's totally fine by me. Let us both give ourselves a small pat on the back (well at least for you) for a relatively civil exchange.
    1
  4980. Maybe not the absolute safest, but it must be pretty close compared to car and train. The stats are pretty clear on that. On US carriers for example, no has died in over 10 years. And excluding commuter/regional there has been but a single death since 2001. The West is particularly safe. For most of the established carriers, several decades have gone by since they killed a single passenger. However I'm sure that in places like Indonesia that is most emphatically not the case.
    1
  4981. Don't give Christianity too much credit. If the biblical God is real, He also signed off on Islam.
    1
  4982. Bryan certainly doesn't deserve life. That's a grotesque mismatch between crime and punishment. Tell me, do you believe punishment should be proportional to the crime?
    1
  4983. It's somewhat speculative to say she was being stupid. There is no such thing as perfection even when being extremely careful and cautious. This has been proven by a field known as heuristics. It shows that we can all be subject to cognitive bias and not be aware of it as its happening. It shows that even primitive error can happen to even the most careful of us. I think the term heuristics should be plastered on billboards in every courtroom in the US. It shows us how wrong our intuitions can be.
    1
  4984.  @johnharrisonschulz  I didn't know what it really meant until I read this article on hunting accidents. "Contrary to what most people think, the hunters committing these accidents are often experienced and considered to be safe and competent. Crucially, they often believe they have, 100%, correctly identified their target. Psychology and human factors can provide insight into how these situations might occur. When interpreting information, we rely heavily upon mental rules of thumb called heuristics. Heuristics operate outside of our conscious awareness and are utilised even more in stressful or emotionally charged situations. However, they can also make us susceptible to cognitive biases which may lead us astray—we underestimate the impact heuristics will have on our decisions. Attempts to manage heuristics and cognitive biases are often futile because we normally cannot detect them when they occur. Hunters are constantly told that they need to treat every sound or movement as human in an attempt to change their mind-set. However, given the difficulty in detecting cognitive biases, it is unlikely a hunter’s conscious management of heuristics would be consistently possible in the long term." I think this concept should humble some of us just a bit. It goes against human intuition: we like to pretend we can be completely in control of our actions. Since I discovered this article I have been referencing it like crazy as it applies to so many heated debates. I think it's right on the money, and potentially very applicable in this case.
    1
  4985. Please I urge you to be more tolerant of people's mistakes. Especially since you cannot provide a proof she was motivated by evil.
    1
  4986. Depends on the context. There's a little path that goes around a pond where I live, and you might pass someone a few times every 5 minutes or so. As I approached a women with 2 of her kids in a baby carriage who had stopped to give them water, I smiled and said "Hey there." When there's a sense of camaraderie - sharing a small nature path with others, then I think it's completely OK. I say the exact same thing to some men I make eye contact with.
    1
  4987. Thank you for holding the zoo accountable. Not many posters seem to care one wit about that. However, I take issue with "doesn't parent as she should." The assumption of 100% perfect parents at all times and places is unrealistic. Have you ever been a parent?
    1
  4988.  StopCensorship4---3  They also favor censorship, a quaint irony I think.
    1
  4989.  StopCensorship4---3  "October 14, 2022 A bill signed into law by Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni on 13 October to severely restrict freedom of expression online will be weaponized against critics, including political opponents, and must be immediately reversed, Amnesty International said today. This piece of legislation threatens the right to freedom of expression online, including the right to receive and impart information" As always, you miss the point and also lose the argument big time. What else is new Big Guy. Hey, if you want to keep destroying your credibility, fine with me.
    1
  4990.  StopCensorship4---2.0  Banned by who?
    1
  4991. Your are conflating lies with unrealistic ability. That right there is a sign of stupid thinking.
    1
  4992. No facts here, just a cold blooded killer who regularly tortures his own citizens.
    1
  4993. That may be true, but we cannot place any blame on her.
    1
  4994. Yes, a well needed check on the MAGA lowlifes.
    1
  4995. I know you are a good person, and please don't take this personally. But why should God be owed anything? Because of His Creation, people suffer unspeakably. A never ending stream of sorrow and tears. This is His Creation. And then we somehow buy into the sadistic belief such draconian suffering is deserved. I'm not buying into this fraudulent picture of our alleged Creator. If He were genuinely against unspeakable suffering, he wouldn't have created us.
    1
  4996. She knew AFTER she shot him. Obviously not before unless we go by the almost-nuts theory she deliberately choreographed a fake mistake so she could shoot a black person. Given all the racism in the US, and the understandable rage, I actually don't hold it against some people for thinking this. But it's borderline nuts all the same. No one would make that assumption if it were a black women who shot a black man. This shows the poisonous assumptions people constantly make when driven by sheer rage.
    1
  4997. Indeed. If traveling inside a hijacker's pocket inside the cockpit, all the more likely it might survive the inferno.
    1
  4998.  @missmew3499  Thank you for your strong reply. Not denying the father of Turner was pretty bad and made excuses. My point is mainly to show how parents have a tendency to see their children as good kids at heart no matter how lousy or wonderful they or their kids may be. As to the punishment, I in no way condone their actions or say they shouldn't get a harsh punishment. At the same time, I might have a bit more sympathy than some people. As a teenager I had some pretty awful ideas, and on two occasions acted them out. Fortunately they did not progress to anyone being hurt, but they might have. So I had to ask myself, was I a bad kid? Doubtful. I was never arrested, never hung out with the wrong crowd, never did drugs or alcohol. And today I consider myself a keenly moral person who constantly reviews his actions and asks at the end of the day, what could I have done better? This helped me realize that teenagers can stray from what should be obvious lapses of empathy more readily than some may realize. They have absolutely terrible judgement, and their lapses, even the good kids, are a blind spot to many, IMO. I believe therefore the punishment should be a balancing act. The look on the teens' parents faces in court that first day was almost as heartbreaking to me. White's sister also stated, despite her outrage and hurt, that "I don't want these kids locked away for life. . ."
    1
  4999.  @edivimaro1975  Don't worry, I didn't take it as an attack. :) As a rule that may be true, but that is not always the case. It was pointed out during the Brock Turner trial, for example, that a black teen in a similar case was not sentenced to ANY jail time for his rape. So it's not always as certain as is often asserted. I do believe it's very possible in this case that because these kids are clean cut, white and good looking, that white folk will feel more sympathy than if they were black. That's a problem, and maybe also an example of unconscious racism.
    1
  5000.  @edivimaro1975  Agree completely. Adult prisons are a perfect place to train for being a hardened criminal. So for teenagers, it may be counterproductive to send them there. In this case the judge is rightly angry, and right to give them more than just probation or a few years. But I don't think his insistence on trying them as adults is a good idea necessarily. Right now, the kid who was the ring leader, and threw the fatal rock, is free on probation after just 3 or so years. Meanwhile, three of the other four are languishing in detention with no trial date in sight. There has to be something very wrong with that.
    1
  5001.  @edivimaro1975  I agree in general, but at the same time sometimes these claims com off as too absolute. And interesting case is that of Sam Ukwuachu, of Baylor University. The case has dragged on and I have lost track of the current status, but initially he was found guilty of sexual assault and the judge sentenced him to 6 months, which was less than Turner's 1 year sentence. Don't know the judges race here, but his university also initially stood by him.
    1
  5002.  Monica Palmer  Sure they were. The evidence is overwhelming. By contrast the evidence they weren't is close to zero.
    1
  5003.  @ecliptix5436  I can see being fed up with the industry, but isn't it just a tad ironic to stop flying precisely at the moment when flying in the US (and indeed on most 1st tier airlines all over the world) is now safer than ever before, orders of magnitude safer than in the 1970s for instance. Sure, the trend can change at any moment. But by the standards of the 1970s we should be having major crashes 2 or 3 times per year, versus the present one every 10-20 years. But to be sure, I don't know how we manage this despite all the risks.
    1
  5004.  @Angelum_Band  It's kind of a speculative debate so early in the administration.
    1
  5005.  @kiedranFan2035  "would like to understand whos idea was this?" If it's Boeing, isn't that all we need to know?
    1
  5006.  @alecwood1282  I wrote I "... flying in the US (and indeed on most 1st tier airlines all over the world) is now safer than ever before, orders of magnitude safer than in the 1970s " Based on that, there have been zero fatalities in 2024. Not one in the US. I checked the ASN database and came up with 4 fatal events world wide for passenger airline flights. And that's if you fly on an air taxi, or in such places as Azerbaijan or Indonesia or other categories I specifically excluded. Excluding commuter/regional, between 2001 and today there has been a single death on a US airline That's 23 years. Never before in history. cheers
    1
  5007. What coincidence? That the tower was hit while Bush was doing SOMETHING? Would it have also been a coincidence had he been cutting his toe nails? Or having breakfast? Or yawning?
    1
  5008.  @A.H.59  Maybe so
    1
  5009. Ultimately though, the judgement was flawed. The jury are not mind readers, but decided to bestow this ability on to themselves regardless . Reasonable doubt was thus amputated.
    1
  5010. Greatest mass murderer in Uganda's history? You got it.
    1
  5011.  @donnamyers7274  Sounds fair to me.
    1
  5012. Remember, only anonymous posters on Youtube figured out 911. You must feel very special.
    1
  5013. The zoo's at fault because a zoo is a child-oriented business, and therefore has an obligation to eliminate child hazards such as this. What don't you get here? On the other hand no parent is perfect. Maybe you've just never been a parent?
    1
  5014. Good, but not acting the way responsible 19-year-olds act. I have the feeling this was not a one-off.
    1
  5015. "You never discuss the evidence directly" How would you know if you've never seen my posts before? I remember reading about the speed of ejecta from the ARAP site years ago. I'm eager to revisit this. If you have a link to the best presentation of this aspect the crash, I'd love to take a look. regards Chris
    1
  5016.  @vokqe  I vote against missile. But I don't recall any perfectly cut circles. And also, a missile doesn't preclude a CWT explosion. The best missile theory states that is what caused it.
    1
  5017. This is wrong. I can cite other crashes where there were no bodies. There was indeed debris, pictures prove it, including engine core, black boxes, a 5-7 foot fuselage section w window panes; and also enough human remains to ID all the passengers. You need to do better research.
    1
  5018. Well that's actually a nice proof she was watching her child and lost track if him only briefly. Had she truly been a bad parent she wouldn't have had a clue where he was.
    1
  5019. And all WE ask for is a proof of a rigged election.
    1
  5020. No proof.
    1
  5021. There's no proof beyond a reasonable doubt they did not kill in self-defense.
    1
  5022.  @raphaelj.3680  there you go!
    1
  5023. Yes, and while I don't want to be too sweeping, IMO most of these most extreme of extremists do not shed a single tear over a aborted fetus. It's a big fat fraud.
    1
  5024.  @stopcensorship7705  Long time no, and a hearty welcome back! The Lindy effect told me you would be back sooner or later.
    1
  5025. Some sanity and compassion. Thank you.
    1
  5026. Here's a man who writes a book saying every measure of well being is getting better, but mentions global warming only once in passing. That tells you all you need to know.
    1
  5027. But more impossible to understand why gays should be jailed for life. One imay be hard to understand. The other is outright violence. Maybe you can't understand that distinction either?
    1
  5028. It's funny how so many called the plane handsome. And in some ways it was. But when I bought the book, "The Rise and Fall of the DC-10," with the front cover picturing a DC-10 re-fashioned into a 3-engine flying coffin, I could not help from then on to note how the DC-10 fuselage is thick and stubby at the front, but every so subtly becomes narrower by the time it gets to the tail. And that rear engine, tilted a little backwards, looks like it's about to fall off. I was just 10 at the time of this crash. As a child, the very image of a TK DC-10 became transformed in my mind as literally a flying coffin. And that's how I see it every time I see a TK DC-10 picture. A symbol of pure evil.
    1
  5029. Ridiculous. It was Boeing's fault.
    1
  5030. It was said that in the late 60s TWA was the third largest airline in the world based on passengers carried. Aeroflot and United were one and two, with TWA and AA virtually tied for 3rd/4th. This may seem odd given Pan Am's huge network of 120 cities until you realize PA often had just a few flights per week between many cities versus TWA's 5-10 per day.
    1
  5031. If you treat the scientific method with respect, then the case for an explosion before impact is conjecture only.
    1
  5032.  @johnstedman4075  "was an exercise in misinformation" Based on what?
    1
  5033. Just shows they made a silly mistake.
    1
  5034.  @johnstedman4075  That would have been a huge injustice.
    1
  5035.  @timmy5387  "You are the stupidest person I know." Actually, I know one other person who's even stupider. But that still makes CS part of the select group of semi-finalists.
    1
  5036. Shapiro is not my favorite. But for goodness sakes you see no basic distinction between Fuentes and Trump versus Shapiro? The former are indeed frauds. Shapiro does not think or promote criminality, does he? So yes, you probably are the only one.
    1
  5037. I know what you're trying to say: he's the only one who made a big boo boo. But every accident has contributory factors. There couldn't be a better example of this swiss cheese model than here.
    1
  5038.  @knowethjc29  You know absolutely zero about accident investigation. This accident is considered by aviation experts to be the quintessential model of the swiss cheese model. Virtually every crash has contributory factors. It doesn't in any way shape or form mean there is no primary factor. You display all the qualities of a Big Shot, but who knows virtually nothing about how to evaluate evidence, or of air accident investigation. This kind of attitude may be acceptable to your street buddies, but it gets you nowhere in the real world. Take care Big Guy.
    1
  5039. True, but also always some woman somewhere that makes an excuses for him.
    1
  5040. Why did god create gay attraction if He is against gay attraction?
    1
  5041. It is no doubt true these attitudes are widespread. But there are certainly aspects of the rape culture paradigm that can be questioned. For example, there's also very little question "anti-rape culture" is also widespread. The Brock Turner case illustrates the two different cultures colliding on different levels. There are also rape culture dogmas that can and should be questioned. The prevalence of sexual assault, such as the 1 in 5 claim on college campuses, is treated as impeachable even though its methodology depends on conflating drunken sex and unwanted kisses and more serious sexual assault all into a single number. Another example is the claim teaching women not to be raped is rape culture. That makes no sense whatsoever. Making young women aware of the the risks can work in tandem with teaching men not to rape. They aren't mutually exclusive.
    1
  5042.  @heidifredricks8641  Exactly. Teaching women about the risks of sexual assault need not be IN PLACE of educating men. They can both compliment each other.
    1
  5043. Well if they find it thrilling, why substitute your preferences for theirs?
    1
  5044.  @worldofpaisen  OK, I'll have a look sometime this week. Thanks
    1
  5045.  @worldofpaisen  don't waste time with the michael jackson video Got you.
    1
  5046.  @lanzhao5514  What?
    1
  5047.  @lanzhao5514  Oh, I see, I think. What do you think of Underdog Uzumaki's post?
    1
  5048.  @lanzhao5514  So what was the confusion?
    1
  5049.  john cameron  Abortion is very much an issue up for grabs. Neither side has THE definitive argument, IMO. Pro-choice arguments are pretty lame in general. But the pro-life fixation on biology as defining a child has no objective underpinning. That's the part the pro-life position hasn't seriously questioned, IMO. "So just think about ehat you say before you say it ok" I actually think pretty carefully about the things I post. Not sure you've succeeded more than I have in that department, to judge from your recent posts.You've made claims with no real arguments to support them. Anyone can say whatever they want. Like abortion is killing children, or pornography is benign, or homosexuality should be stopped. But really backing these claims takes considerable more effort than either of us has so far expended. If you want an in depth discussion, I'm open to that. But I have a strange feeling you don't.
    1
  5050. "and the officer standing right next to her were completely unaware that she was holding her firearm and not her taser??" Well, I assume all this happened very fast. Maybe no one was looking at her hand? I don't see it's realistic to assume others to be focusing on her hand and instantly yell out, "that's your gun!" One last thing, bias under stress often occurs to precisely those who are most trained and experienced, contrary to what people think. This has turned out to be the case especially with hunting accidents. This is yet another instance where common sense may be totally wrong.
    1
  5051.  @aoia691  Fill me in on the last time warning happened this quickly. Thanks
    1
  5052. Yeah, but he's hardly an honest fellow overall.
    1
  5053. Except that we don't know it's the truth.
    1
  5054.  @BenTV91  I think you lack both a sense of proportion, and also a degree of compassion. Life in prison for a mistake that anyone of us could potentially have made? That's intolerant. It goes against basic decency.
    1
  5055.  @SunflowerSunflower-lc3kw  I think the system needs an overhaul. But it's pure speculation to say she did it deliberately. Youtube, as usual, brings out the very worst in people.
    1
  5056. Where would you put it?
    1
  5057. Remember though, it was men who came to her defense.
    1
  5058. So what?
    1
  5059. The only people engaging in force are those who practice it against gays.
    1
  5060. They are big on that sort of thing in Europe.
    1
  5061. Well that's clearly open to discussion.
    1
  5062. Most of the evidence does not support most people, excepting bisexuals of course, from changing their sexuality, if by that you men sexual orientation. For many people the evidence suggests it's fixed.
    1
  5063. It was really two things though. Yes, I agree, there was the self-defense part. But the other part is equally important: did the two McMichaels cross the line of legality, as well as common sense, by being too sure about whom they were chasing? I think the answer is yes. In his own words Greg M said his pursuit was based on a hunch. While he lucked in, it could well have been different. I don't think we have the right to scare the living crap out of potentially innocent people, and create an armed roadblock based on a hunch, That's the ingredient the defenders of father and son seem to be missing. There was an absence of immediate knowledge. There was no positive identification. Thus the reckless endangerment charge has merit in my opinion. That means that what otherwise would be legitimate self-defense has to weighed against having created a dangerous and illegal situation to begin with.
    1
  5064. Yes, just as the truth movement reminds one of the National Enquirer.
    1
  5065. If it were that dangerous, Qantas would not still be running them.
    1
  5066. Oh that's way over SC's head. There may not be a gay gene, but there must surely be a snoop gene. SC is proof.
    1
  5067.  @stopcensorship7705  I don't target comments per se. I target manifest stupidity. Like: hormones = choice. That is manifest stupidity. If it isn't, kindly recommend to me hormonal treatments that cures homosexuality. Are you really this logically impaired??
    1
  5068. Yes, it's one part comedy and two parts a child with a mustache.
    1
  5069. This is the dark side of human nature speaking , your comment. Society, and its unjust felony murder principle, gives you license to hate without limit. Roddie is a stupid mor-n r-cist who got in over his head. Sure thing. Yes! But there's no equivalence between his crime and the punishment. None whatsoever. We have a long way to go in revamping our justice system. In BOTH directions.
    1
  5070. You will hear constantly that it was shot down. But the proof is lacking.
    1
  5071.  @AB-mw8oz  And Ethiopian 302 also was swallowed whole by the ground. Just like flight 93. In fact even more so.
    1
  5072. I'm afraid we don't. The Lord is man's creation.
    1
  5073.  @danielleeclingansr6032  What does to parish mean? Perish??
    1
  5074.  @danielleeclingansr6032  I did but it's not a verb.
    1
  5075. There is no entry in any of the basic online dictionaries that reads "to parish." Do you mean to PERISH?
    1
  5076.  @danielleeclingansr6032  Hey, I was just thinking there was maybe some religious term "to parish" that I was unaware of. Now back to issues of substance. God is disproven by the fact that he is constantly said to be omnipotent, but in reality is always rendered impotent. He cannot stop floods even though he can create them. He cannot prevent suffering. A real God would ensure that hard core suffering was not part of his creation. That's just one of many common sense proofs against the LORD. A truly loving and compassionate God would not have thought to create the very concept of unremmitting complete and total suffering. It's HIS creation, and for what purpose other than to make the world worse? Go for it. Let's here you deal with that one.
    1
  5077.  @danielleeclingansr6032  Good luck defending the Lord's insistence that the world must contain not just suffering, but the absolute most horrific form of suffering. Kind and loving beings don't do that sort of thing.
    1
  5078.  @danielleeclingansr6032  I see you have refrained from defending the LORD and his obsession with punishing mankind. Why create man in the first place if he is so wicked? Enquiring minds want to know.
    1
  5079.  @danielleeclingansr6032  Thank you for the references. I appreciate it. But I ask you to think for yourself for a moment. Does it make any sense that God would create beings he knew in advance would be wicked? What is the point of that? Can you answer using your unaided common sense without reference to scripture?
    1
  5080.  @danielleeclingansr6032  Kindly ask your minister that.
    1
  5081. Maybe in medieval times. But we have progressed since then. That kind of justice doesn't make the world a better place.
    1
  5082. And in the process we can see his depravity towards his fellow humans.
    1
  5083.  @vysakhmadhu3937  You may be incorrectly reading the intent of the original post. It might just be an innocent question, to which the answer is no. Pearl Harbor is one obvious example.
    1
  5084. Very good ideas. What you are asking for is nothing less than a significant transformation of a seemingly ingrained part of human nature. In essence wouldn't it be nice if we were all like Ted Koppel (OK, maybe he's not your favorite) or Kofi or whomever. Big challenge. If you read people like Steven Pinker, and many others who think along similar frequencies, we have been seeing very gradually over the centuries, especially in the West, a movement away from violent norms, at least on some level, and towards growing sensitivity to violence. Maybe one day we will further evolve to encompass greater empathy, which I think is at the base of what you're talking about.
    1
  5085. Because the death penalty is too humane? The irony is, once you're dead, you can no longer experience your punishment. So the DP, in that sense, is a cop out.
    1
  5086. Maybe so, but anytime someone other than a marked policeman points a gun at you, that's assault pure and simple. Arbery had every right to shoot the man dead.
    1
  5087.  @AllinAllisAllweAllare  You shouldn't be pointing guns at people to begin with. This result shows exactly why. "so wait for police to show up them they get in trouble for brandishing weapons.' YES, that's exactly right. They shouldn't have pointed a gun at Arbery - the police agree !!!! . Because it's far too dangerous, as his death shows. You do not have a right to demand someone stop when you point a gun at them. By your standard any thug or mugger or killer could come along and just say, "Oh jeeez, he looked like a burglar, so I shot him dead."
    1
  5088.  @AllinAllisAllweAllare  I was just reading up on the details of the case. This was not a valid citizen's arrest because you have to witness the crime in question, and in immediate response to that, attempt to use reasonable force. Virtually every prosecutor and lawyer in Georgia who has commented so far has stated this went well out of bounds for a citizen's arrest. -Greg stated he did not witness any crime, only that he recognized Arbery from past incidents. -Reasonable force does not mean brandishing a gun. I can understand why Gregory shot him, but you miss the big picture when you grant him permission to have displayed the gun to begin with. Big no-no. -the timing of the first shot comes within 2 seconds of Arbery reaching Travis' location. -I will grant reasonable doubt may exist whether the gun was literally pointing at Arbery when he reached Travis. -It has been said Arbery had mental deficits. I suppose you could argue that could benefit each party for different reasons. -I will thus grant that this may not have been murder, but at the very least manslaughter.
    1
  5089.  @AllinAllisAllweAllare  Hope that sounds more reasonable to you.
    1
  5090. Well they mentioned their names here, all 3 or them, right under the headline.
    1
  5091. Well, that's a vote for the worst dictator in Uganda's history. You know, mowing down peaceful protesters, fraud election, never ending torture.
    1
  5092.  @exKGBagent  I am talking present tense.
    1
  5093.  @exKGBagent  No, if you add up all the deaths, Museveni's toll is greater than both Obote's and Idi Amin's COMBINED.
    1
  5094.  @exKGBagent  I never said my country was not guilty of many instances of oppression. And I never stated, as you did, that any one of them deserved my vote. I almost never vote, but voted for Biden mainly because Trump is something of a tinpot dictator in our own country. I see and acknowledge oppression where it is. I just don't praise mass murderers the way you do.
    1
  5095.  @exKGBagent  "The west has plundered Africa more than these modern day dictators" Yes, by a huge margin. And your point is? The Belgium government, the most brutal of all, did not deserve my vote, nor could I have voted for them because I wasn't born yet. I am speaking in the present tense. Museveni is not a role model, a brutal thug, pure and simple. So why praise him? Who cares what a ruthless killer thinks of gays when he has no respect for human life, period.
    1
  5096.  @exKGBagent  "And who do you think who controls him? Is it the General Public there? No. Is it the Military? No,..." So why does he deserve your vote?
    1
  5097.  @exKGBagent  We can argue this back and forth, who is more oppressive. My main point is, why does a brutal thug, who tortures his opposition, and kills, deserve your vote? It sounds as if you think gays are more dangerous than brutal killers.
    1
  5098.  @exKGBagent  "Well who priased for mass murders?" By saying he deserves your vote, implies tacit approval of his policies.
    1
  5099.  @exKGBagent  I'm fine with people not approving of gays. But do you agree it's wrong to sentence them to life in prison, which has been in at least one proposed bill in the last ten years?
    1
  5100. Where has JK R stated that trans women are more criminal prone than other biological men?
    1
  5101. An honest butcher.
    1
  5102.  @ashokadhshd3438  What's hilarious is you think I care about him at all.
    1
  5103.  StopCensorship4--1  I learned it from you, OK?
    1
  5104.  StopCensorship4--1  And you need to brush up on logical syntax.. Gay, whether biology or upbringing, is not consciously chosen, at least by most people. Yet you keep making this faulty connection. That something is not inborn does not of necessity render it a conscious choice. I have already given you a proof that your facts cannot deal with the self-loathing gay. That alone completely refutes your thesis.
    1
  5105.  StopCensorship4--1  Now you're catching on. My above argument has nothing to do with genetics. It has to do with the logical fallacy that if it's not genetics, it must be choice. This shows again you cannot process basic logic. And as I repeat, your thesis of choice is at a total loss to explain the gay reparative therapy industry. As any three your old could tell you, if gay were a choice, there would be no need for such therapy, and no gay person would purchase it. Case closed.
    1
  5106.  StopCensorship4--1  That's right, you don't get basic logic. Almost every post of yours reconfirms this again and again. For example, the very statement equating gay people to groomers is not only illogical, it's a downright lie. But that's OK because we all have our faults.
    1
  5107.  StopCensorship4--1  Why do you want to waste away your life on homosexuals? Every time I return from a few months hiatus, you are always back at it again. Very sad.
    1
  5108. As almost all are.
    1
  5109.  @JohnStedman-d4s  You are quite the archivist. Very very interesting. Question: You may have noticed that bits and pieces of cockpit conversation are occasionally quoted in some sources, but which are not in the officially released transcripts, and which have eluded my efforts to find, such as the friendly chat between the KLM and Pan Am captains much earlier in the day. Would you know of a source for these? Since this conversation happened over and hour before, wondering what the source would be, as I presume the tapes ony preserve the last half hour. And also for example, when Meurs states "Would he know?" from the Bartelski book. Thanks.
    1
  5110. It's a pity you choose the most notorious mass murderer in the country's history to be your spokesman. You can't think of anyone more decent? As long as they dislike gays, it doesn't matter how reprehensible they are.
    1
  5111. Maybe he did ask someone before. Maybe he had been assured it was not is responsibility. Who knows.
    1
  5112. There's no proof of a single height gene either. So I think I chose to be tall.
    1
  5113. No no no no. If he knew in advance, he would not have continued reading "My Pet Goat," If anything he would have responded a little too quickly and decisively to look presidential, and on top of things. This is the lamest script for an alleged false flag, another failure of the imagination of drive by truthers who spin things out of thin air on a regular basis. No wonder the truth mvt is effectively dead.
    1
  5114. Good list, but would question halting operations in fog. For this airport, there would be total chaos. But it does show that without ground based radar, it is unsafe to have such an airport witness the Dan Air disaster 3 years later. Add also: not listening to the climax of a soccer match at the moment of the crash.
    1
  5115.  @ashleyowen7664  I hear you. It's an industry-wide standard that if we closed down all aiprorts when the weather gets bad, the entire system would be total chaos. Maybe that's what needs to change.
    1
  5116. Well I don't disagree he was being aggressively persued by some racist scumbags. But he could have just continued running, or run through the adjacent yard, and not attacked them. This is no excuse for the Ms, but if you're implying they would have shot him dead regardless, that's unprovable.
    1
  5117.  @weytogoman  There's no doubt in my mind Travis lied big time in court. However, I believe there's reasonable doubt as to Malice Murder.
    1
  5118.  @weytogoman  I may not be quite as intune to all the details in the last few seconds as you. So I'm happy to be corrected if I left out something relevant. Yes, indeed, I'm well aware that enhanced FBI video and Travis' own words in court prove that Travis aimed the gun at Arbery some 5-10 seconds or more out. That's armed assault with a dangerous weapon. But in itself it doesn't prove beyond reasonable doubt an intent to shoot. If it did, why didn't he pull the trigger right then and there, or during all of those seconds as Arbery approached? = reasonable doubt. Or, if you think he waited to avoid hitting Bryan, he may just wanted to continue to scare and bully Arbery, = reasonable doubt. One way or another, this is not a viable proof. Travis changing position- this is where I concede I might be off. But my reasoning is that changing a position might be due to the belief Arbery might be armed, so he wants to get into a more defensive position. There's only so much one can tell from the video. Arbery charges - even if you are guilty of reckless conduct and armed assault, when someone turns and charges at you, and (quite possibly) tries to grab your gun, there might also be a reflex reaction to shoot. It might be a self preservation instinct to shoot when someone tries to grab your gun, since they could grab it and shoot you. If you want to convince me we know for a virtual certainty that Travis' shot was totally unrelated to a reflex action of self defense, please fill in any blanks I am missing.
    1
  5119.  @weytogoman  I didn't have time to watch everything needless to say, but I watched most the excerpts you cite. Three statements that stand out to me are Arbery "Turns and decides to engage Travis McMichael" at 37:30 Travis "could tell from 30-40 yards away Arbery was going to fight." 3:13:30 Travis: "He said he was afraid Mr. Arbery would get hold of the shot gun. 3:15:55 On that basis, I don't see the issue of reasonable doubt is resolved.
    1
  5120.  @weytogoman  And now let's state the obvious, as everyone seems to have a massive case of amnesia in this case. As a general rule, if someone tries to attack you and you are armed, you might fear for your life. And it would be understandable that you might shoot in self-defense. Whether legally or not is besides the point. Are you in disagreement with this common sense assessment?
    1
  5121.  @weytogoman  OK, well let's go more in depth. 2:30 in your link there's a discussion of self defense. There is no resolution of Travis' claim to self defense. The argument that he wasn't sure if Arbery struck him leaves that point unresolved. What you seem to have missed is again obvious. Even if you have not been struck, and your gun has not been grabbed, when someone turns and decides to confront you in a threatening way, you might shoot out of fear. Have you not seen the many instances of police being confronted by an unarmed man and they shoot? Whether justified or not, the motive is fear, not malice. Isn't this obvious?
    1
  5122.  @weytogoman  Sorry, you don't have the intelligence or grasp of basic concepts to continue the discussion. Feel free to have the final word.
    1
  5123. I think this has become true gradually over several decades. We now effectively have corporate medicine: doctors routinely accepting lavish lunches from drug companies, refusing to diagnose people unless their symptoms are glaring, not knowing anything outside their specialty, and doctors doing multiple surgeries at the same time. It's very sad. And if they can't find what's ailing you, too often jump to the conclusion it's psychological. They always LOVE to diagnose mental illness.
    1
  5124. It's just a theory.
    1
  5125.  @bargeman100  But I'm a smart troll, whereas you are a bot. Big difference
    1
  5126.  @bargeman100  Keep on making the truth movement look as stupid as everyone already knows. Just keep saying troll. I could hardly do a better job myself.
    1
  5127.  @bargeman100  I bet you still think I'm a paid troll for the Union Army. Because you'll believe anything.
    1
  5128.  @bargeman100  On the other hand, you probably don't even know what the Union Army was. Since you only have a one word vocabulary. Just sayin.
    1
  5129.  @bargeman100  It's also obvious you're the real troll. Paid to make the truth movement look as utterly stupid as possible. And in that, you succeed with each fresh post.
    1
  5130.  @bargeman100  Oh, my bad. You have a 2 word vocabulary.
    1
  5131.  @bargeman100  Once a bot, always a bot.
    1
  5132. Not clear they even saw the exit.
    1
  5133. But I think the pro-life argument, that from a strictly biological perspective they are all "people," is actually correct. But I would always put in this qualifier: in this limited biological sense. Because a biological person is not the only valid sense of being a "person." You can make just as valid an argument that human life begins with the brain. Because without it, there is no meaningful person. To me the biological argument, as I call it, is bad logic because it presumes another critical fact: that people do eventually develop a brain. If they didn't, no one but environmentalists would care about "people." This shows the hidden assumption that is never mentioned in the seemingly self-evident truth of the biological argument. But without it, there is no convincing case. Just my thought for the day.
    1
  5134. I haven't researched this. Did they prove he was the person breaking into houses that winter?
    1
  5135. In the history of hijacking until 9/11, the norm was to "just sit there." With alleged armed hijackers, why would this flight have been any different?
    1
  5136. Just curious. Why has this disaster been called here, and in another video, the Titanic of the skies? Why any more so than any other plane crash?
    1
  5137.  @tomstravels520  Yes, but so did F800, Egyptair 990, Swissair 111, Malaysian 370, among others.
    1
  5138.  @tomstravels520  Conceded. But the Titanic analogy is really about something that's indestructible, not the fact it was a ship, or in water. The A-330 was never declared "crash proof," more than any other recent model. Or am I wrong?
    1
  5139.  @tomstravels520  Well, this discussion has been interesting to me because, though on some level trivial, it illustrates how people look at things so differently. Thank you for your replies.
    1
  5140. And God is mankind's creation. How else to explain God's wrath, Leviticus, the nonstop warfare of his alleged creation, thugs like Museveni, and endless suffering, all supposedly deserved. That's mankind all right. No God in His right mind would create such a monstrosity. Or blame it all on us. PS Homosexual behavior has been observed throughout the animal world. Get educated.
    1
  5141.  @stopcensorship7705  Your science is junk.
    1
  5142.  @Vibrinspiration  The comment wasn't stupid. A single spelling error is not worthy of serious discussion.
    1
  5143.  @jordancharm6780  For an unintentional mistake that anyone of us could make at any time? It amounts to prosecuting human nature.
    1
  5144. Thank you God for creating evil and not feeling bad about it.
    1
  5145.  @Kyehyfxu  If one wants to be technical and in accordance with standard protocol of how air disasters are usually compiled, AA flight 11 has he distinction of worst in the US, and indeed the world.
    1
  5146.  @zipalooie  Actually only Manhattan if you count each separately. But I nit-pic. :)
    1
  5147. I'm surprised they didn't mention the fact that there was also a pregnant woman and a paraplegic among the passengers. The woman in her 80s suffers a fall, and you refuse to even answer an email and strand them on a tiny island in the middle of nowhere? That is sufficient for me to never use this cruise line.
    1
  5148. The CIA enabled 9/11, but did not orchestrate it.
    1
  5149. Only if they respect ours (US), which is doubtful from what I see in the comments.
    1
  5150.  @stopcensorship7705  Dear Stop, I still need your help. I'm trying to figure out how to choose heterosexual attraction. I've been trying for years. Should I watch more porn featuring naked ladies? Should I join a reparative gay therapy class? You know, the ones that all have outrageously bad results, where the ministers have recanted by the droves? I await your suggestions.
    1
  5151.  @stopcensorship7705  Still awaiting your peer review scientific citation conclusively proving gay attraction has no biological component. The longer you delay, the more it says to the viewer you have no such proof.
    1
  5152.  @stopcensorship7705  If you think you know so much, kindly tell us which year the proof came in.
    1
  5153. If a man of Hitchen's stature doesn't want that, what does that tell you about his being a genuine intellectual?
    1
  5154.  @earwasel2-c2j  I don't think that he cares either. But this misses the point. He is demonstrating a decided lack of intellectual curiosity if he finds philosophical underpinnings boring.
    1
  5155. What law did he actually break?
    1
  5156. Arrogance as cause of crash is speculation. Be a serious accident investigator and go by facts, not speculation.
    1
  5157.  @exex9378  Sorry, impatience doesn't = arrogance. If it did, you'd see that in a dictionary. In any case of pilot error, BY DEFINITION there will be failures. Failure doesn't = arrogance either. Tautologies don't prove arrogance. Unlike you, I have not only read all three major reports, and numerous essays, such as Jan Bartelski's excellent chapter, I think in terms of facts not speculation. Many things can cause a pilot to have a lapse. Van Zanten was obviously very stressed. BTW, the late 1st officer Bragg called him a "gentleman who got himself into a hurry. . . we all have a tendency to do it." Do you know more than him? Are you as professional as he was?
    1
  5158. Oh please, you're being too literal. She hears a large commotion and assumes it must be several passengers, so she's thinking out loud, 4, 5, 6? Notice how she DOESN'T say she knows exactly.
    1
  5159. And the FAA and Turkish Airlines' rogue maintenance.
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  5160. Why would the claim the passport was in the luggage "fit" his narrative? That does not make any sense. Why is it ridiculous the passport would be on his person inside the cockpit? Paper items surviving even very high speed plane crashes is a common place.
    1
  5161. He only fights for himself. Why do you think he violated America with his big fat cowardly disgusting lie? And you fell for it.
    1
  5162. Are you talking about UA 93 or Ethiopian 302?
    1
  5163. Looks like this conversation got stopped dead in its tracks. All you need are simple facts.
    1
  5164.  @kevtruth  So where was the 5 city blocks long trail of wreckage for flight Ethiopian 302? Ethiopian 911 conspiracy?
    1
  5165.  @kevtruth  Because flight 302 also mostly disappeared under its crater. Here's the pre-recovery wreckage photo https://www.1001crash.com/index-page-description-accident-Ethiopian-lg-2-crash-410-ethiopian-airlines-boeing-737-ethiopia-bishoftu.html The stuff seen was dug out afterwards: “Most of the wreckage was found buried in the ground,” -reuters Just like flight 93. Do you want to revise your 5 city blocks thesis?
    1
  5166.  @kevtruth  Pentagon: That's exactly what happened though. I spoke personally to several airline captains, and most said they had no problem believing the plane hit the Pentagon. It took some luck, sure; but not the alleged impossible maneuver. You have too much documented evidence. I recommend the book Firefight, which gives the names of dozens of first responders who were in the Pentagon afterwards. There were wreckage photos. An expert crash investigator on one of the aviation forums I used to hang out at positively IDd one of the engine fan pictures. There's an engineering reconstruction that shows exactly how it happened.
    1
  5167.  @kevtruth  Northwest flight 710 is another absolute proof that airplanes can be swallowed whole. In this case, the wings separated in flight, but the entire fuselage literally disappeared under the earth. Investigators had never seen anything like it. The lesson to be learned is that reality is often smarter than we humans give credit for. The truth mvt as a whole, I fear, lacks this sense of humility. They like to think they've been bestowed with the unique gift of insight that others lack; no wonder all the experts, and indeed the rest of us are dispensed with as sheep, or blithering idiots. This is pure narcissism.
    1
  5168. But suppose his next victim is you?
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  5169.  @Scotty_Spacemonsterkiller  OK, I get that. But I hope you aren't suggesting the McMichaels should not have been jailed.
    1
  5170.  @Scotty_Spacemonsterkiller  "separate issue" Yes, it is. But on Youtube there's such a predictable pattern of tribalism, I was half expecting you to say they should have gone free. I might be a little more cautious than you in describing her comments as giving her soul to hate. It's very common for grieving people to say things like "I hope you rot in hell." It seems losing a child to an act of violence often results in this kind of reaction. In the Kim Potter case, I thought to myself, Duante's mother had obviously completely forgiven her son, a common criminal who did far worse things than Potter, but could not have it in her to forgive Potter. But then I thought, I cut her a complete pass because who am I to criticize a grieving mother. Maybe one day she will. The other reason I might agree with you is because as hideous was the McMichael's crime, I'm not 100% convinced it was malice murder. I see it as more akin to malice manslaughter, if there is such a thing.
    1
  5171.  @Scotty_Spacemonsterkiller  Yes, no proof of malice murder in my book. But, it's hard to feel sympathy for racist pigs of the most reprehensible sort.
    1
  5172. He could share her cell with Trump, a man who committed treason.
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  5173. Your videos are probably the best of their kind. However just wondering why in the last year or so everyone seems to be doing one or the other of two Dan Air crashes. Just coincidence?
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  5174. The media have little respect for anything except making money. But the headline is otherwise appropriate. That was indeed the focal point of the conversation.
    1
  5175. For a mass murdering megalomaniacal tin pot dictator running up Uganda's largest body count, perhaps.
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  5176. I think the problem is that, as you suggest, is that the term is used by many to describe their own position, but these positions are all across the board, so the term itself is kind of in a state of anarchy - anything goes, from anarcho-capitalism to the libertarian party's "minimal state" libertarianism, to "small L" libertarianism, which might encompass Milton Friedman and Charles Murray, and of course the original libertarians, who were socialists! I like to say we need to move in a libertarian direction, at least in many respects. Perhaps that's the kind of sensible libertarianism that should be made distinct from anarchism.
    1
  5177. Maybe a bad political science professor, or perhaps Noam Chomsky? : "The term libertarian as used in the US means something quite different from what it meant historically and still means in the rest of the world. Historically, the libertarian movement has been the anti-statist wing of the socialist movement. " So technically I don;t know when the socialist version of the word started, but I was taught in college that as Chomsky claims, it's "original" and established usage was more associated with Marxists and socialists than with the free market. Please enlighten me more if you would as I am not sure of the exact chronology of the word.
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  5178. While it was the jury that made a big booboo, he seemed to have agreed with them.
    1
  5179. Not even God is perfect. He thought that a cursing child should be executed. Not only that, He is said to have changed his mind after having stated those words in Leviticus. Either way, that's imperfection.
    1
  5180. Probably more than that.
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  5181. Me: AI emotions and consciousness anytime in the near s pure fantasy unsupported by any credible evidence.
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  5182. Forget racism. Museveni stands for whole sale slaughter and torture, the worst mass murderer in the country's history. Who cares what some two bit tinpot dictator finds disgusting.
    1
  5183.  @stopcensorship7705  There is no lefty gene.
    1
  5184.  Doctor Jr.  "Every race agree" Hah. Not in the West. You're living in a world of make believe. What's sick is giving any platform for a mass murderer. But you aren't going to call Museveni a sick weirdo, right?
    1
  5185. It is. But on the other hand, it's a bit deceptive. Where I live they once fooled over a hundred people with arrest warrants to show up at a fake auction. It's really no different.
    1
  5186.  @sydneyfreeman-coker1179  "...they stop short of thinking about the way that pervasive ideals of gender..." I am open to that definitely. Most of us have grown up with gender norms so ingrained they come 2nd nature, and I am much more aware of this than when I was growing up. At the same time, I think for the most part today's feminism takes as axiomatic that biology has little or no influence on how gender norms come about. But from a scientific point of view, that's an unjustified conclusion. Similarly, it may be unjustified gender norming, if you will, to conclude that the male ideal (allegedly) of status and high income should be seen as primarily a result of better access. Maybe the obsession with status and wealth should not be considered a particularly healthy goal. it typically requires being married to your job and making a lot of social sacrifice. Many women have found that lower pay translates into a more balanced life. Dominance tendency, and hierarchy, for example, might well have a biological element that differs in terms of gender. So it's possible that social privilege is not all that's operating here. My own guess is there's a complex mix of social/biological factors.
    1
  5187. Yes, you can add that to his catalogue of atrocity.
    1
  5188.  @nicmagnus819  I don't get the idea that every fatal mistake should land you in jail. Where did this absurd notion originate?
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  5189. I agree that not all rapes are created equal. However, it can be pretty frightening, I imagine, finding out later you have been raped. And there's no question sex with someone unconscious is sexual assault. I think we males might be at a disadvantage in dealing with this. If I woke up to some girl giving me a HJ or BJ, I'd say "please, don't stop!" But women do not think this way at all. They have a very different sexual psychology, and men have to be taught that women don't go for all the same things men do. And this is a big one of those things.
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  5190. I agree. But here we have someone going way beyond defending their neighborhood. Travis pointed his gun directly at Arbery when he still hadn't even reached the truck. . No doubt it was this escalation that caused Arbery to grab the gun. You cannot be reckless when defending your neighborhood and expect peace to result.
    1
  5191.  @Jonathan-mt9up  "The escalation began" Not violent escalation, not armed assault with a deadly weapon. You simply cannot put that in the same category as pulling a gun on someone. Apples/oranges. But even if you could, you cannot overlook the fact that Travis had no right to aim a loaded gun at Arbery when Arbery was still some 5-10 seconds away from them. We all have our biases, but to fail to digest the reckless nature of what Travis did is almost willful ignorance, IMO.
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  5192. Why people believe it? Because that's reality.
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  5193. Earthquakes, tsunamis, heart attacks, terrorism, famine, pandemics - that's why I don't like being on planet earth.
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  5194. In those days I actually did refuse to fly it. Right after the DC-10 ban was lifted after the Chicago crash, my father and I were scheduled back from Bermuda to Boston on a AA DC-10 (in those days Bermuda was a big time marketing drive destination,) but I said, "look dad, change our rez to Delta or I won't come home." That Delta Tristar was a huge relief.
    1
  5195. And also because of their reprehensible racism. Travis stated killing a black person was like killing vermin. He would have no remorse. And his dad attended KKK meetings. Rules or no rules, they hated black people. I will never understand why you have to hate an entire race.
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  5196.  @CATSWITHKYLA  Wrong. The 737 MAX crash in Ethiopia was even more completely swallowed, as proven by the PRE-EXCAVATION photos. And don't come back with all the wreckage photos, as every single one was taken AFTER they dug up the parts. Nice try.
    1
  5197. Counter which argument? That the passport did survive? Or could not have survived?
    1
  5198.  @knockeledup  At these speeds there can be no doubt the plane began disintegrating instantly, and that most of it was in unrecognizable shreds within a second or two.
    1
  5199.  @submerged8163  The passport was found before the buildings collapsed. So you are already off on the wrong foot.
    1
  5200. Doesn't a hate crime BY DEFINITION mean there's a law against hate?
    1
  5201.  @BellaDrips  Good question. Seems redundant.
    1
  5202.  @BellaDrips  Reminds me of the equal rights amendment. Since the Constitution already guarantees everyone's rights, especially when you consider Title VII of 1964: "Title VII prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex and national origin. "
    1
  5203. Finally, both Airbus and Boeing have added fuel inerting to their planes to make a repeat event less likely. It's actually an FAA mandate in the US.
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  5204. Just as Musevini is indeed murderous. In fact, the biggest mass killer in the nation's history.
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  5205. Hello she!!
    1
  5206. I'll take a speculative stab at that. First off, a grand total of 3 DC-10 crashes were design related. That really isn't a whole lot. 2nd, for all we know, some of those issues may well have affected the KC-10s, such as the hydraulic system, which was implicated in the Sioux City crash. And finally, only 60 were built, so from a statistical perspective, the chance of a fatal event was much reduced. Also, since the KC-10 was designed in 1980, and had no lower cargo doors, this particular danger would not have been present.
    1
  5207. The devil's in the detail. And in this case it doesn't support it. There were only TWO remote debris fields. One was about 1.5 miles away and consisted of a few tiny pieces of debris. That's it. The 2nd, some 8 miles downwind, consisted merely of a bank check, and a few other very light weight items, carried there by air currents. If it were shot down, there would be big hunks of wreckage, as is usually the cases with shoot downs witness Malaysian flight 17.
    1
  5208. If they let a terrorist attack happen, then by definition it was a terrorist attack. Did I miss something?
    1
  5209.  @Larry26-f1w  Not literally.
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  5210.  @sinekonata  LOL, you think I'm that naive? Of course he's a 9/11 skeptic. The vaporization is an unscientific reference to controlled demolition, as if a collapsing building would not emit a huge quantity of dust. The towers were 90% or more air by volume. The amount of the building turning to dust is impossible to estimate because we cannot SEE through it (this glaringly obvious failure is alone shocking for any alleged serious researcher.) The debris pile was several stories high above ground level. Thus any reference to "vaporization" of the whole building is absurd and totally lacking in the spirit of genuine scientific inquiry. What else is new with the truth movement, with its improbable or even bizarre theorizing. The need to demolish buildings to begin with is one example. Saying we needed some heroes to cheer us up is not far from mentally disordered. The failure to acknowledge that building 7 was fully engulfed, or that claiming cell phones from planes were impossible, or the creation of a blatantly fake peer review site, are other hallmarks of their grossly inadequate research skills, and shockingly poor judgement. This approach to reality is what one expects from the National Enquirer, not a serious truth seeking endeavor. No wonder they are largely confined to YoutTube.
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  5211.  @mikebyrd8278  Nope, sorry, no inside job.
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  5212. I'm not sure whom I'm supposed to be idolizing.
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  5213. Maybe so, but you have no evidence to speak of that I am part of that cult. That's called poor speculative judgement based on a single sentence. I admire much of Harris, but I have plenty to criticize for him too. . . .. I keep forgetting this is Youtube, where the urge to impulsively blab things dominates.
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  5214. Nicholas, see Definitive's post above. He was able to digest my post without resorting to black and white absolutes. ..... Definitive, how long did it take me to figure it out? As soon as I saw the interviews. I am not someone who watches regularly, so it didn't take that long - about a few hours. cheers
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  5215. Nicholas Masterson, My main gripe is not with the interview itself, but with what came later, as the the Joe Rogan link illustrates. Sam Harris said it best: "I feel that Cenk now systematically acts in bad faith on this topic. He has made no effort to accurately represent my views.. . . . Once you're convinced somebody is a total asshole, where you've lost any sense that you should give them the benefit of the doubt, and then you see one more transgression from them -- another thing that confirms whatever attitude in them you hate, ........This is something that I do my best to shed. I think it's an extremely unflattering quality of mind. This is not where I want to be caught standing. But my opponents seem to be always standing here, and that makes conversation impossible." In other words, Cenk jut lacks the civility Sam has. As to hypocrisy, I didn't see any in the 3-hour video, but I don't follow Sam closely.
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  5216. No they weren't, thought the government is evil.
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  5217. No, that's normal for a kid that age. What's stupid is your comment. Unless you're a teenager, you should know better than to post garbage like this.
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  5218. Absolutely. For all intents and purposes, AI is a fraud.
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  5219. This is wrong. There is not much evidence that arrogance caused him to take off, and contrary to what you say, the KLM pilot heeded the FO's warning and WAITED for their airways clearance. The KLM captain was indeed the primary cause of the crash, but it pays to go by facts, not the speculation.
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  5220. Doubtful. Regarding the BBC wtc7 report, what Jessie doesn't tell you is that the collapse was highly expected hours in advance. It is therefore no surprise a mistake like this could have happened.
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  5221.  @trebor9711  Would you like to see all the firefighter quotes warning them of imminent collapse? Fire chief Daniel Nigro gave the order at about 230 that afternoon. Somehow methinks you aren't terribly interested.
    1
  5222.  @SimonVu180  Hah. Most witnesses to the Pentagon crash ID'd it as an AA plane. Nice try.
    1
  5223. They had only 30 seconds actually.
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  5224.  @nopenever3  There are strict rules for when you can abort. "V1" is the speed after which you are committed to take off. The engine loss happened well after this point. There are exceptions to every rule, but experience has shown the best outcome is to commit to flight, as the plane will be at significant risk of an overrun, and severe damage. It's not clear how likely a successful abort would have been at this late stage, and I believe I read there was just a grassy field at the end of the runway, so it might have saved lives. But it would have been impossible for the crew, or anyone to know. If it were to have flipped over the outcome could also have been catastrophic.
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  5225.  @finallyfriday.  I totally am with you. I'd give Mentour Pilot a chance. I think he's the best of of the mini-crash docers. Especially as he's one of the few who's an actual commercial pilot.
    1
  5226. There were wing prints in the grass!
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  5227.  RichLoves FNAF  I didn't say all of them. But many are. Lets start with "who do disgusting crap in public." What % of gay people do disgusting things in public?
    1
  5228.  Ñ  Just as Ugandans can't stop crying about gays. Get over it and get on with your lives. Obsession with bedroom habits is not a sign of maturity.
    1
  5229. Where was the f-ing child-resistant gorilla enclosure?
    1
  5230. About Boeing, I don't think so. I don't think the Boeing tried to cover-up, or knew or thought they had a problem door. Big difference.
    1
  5231. People said they thought the boat would capsize. The woman on the floor was having a panic attack. I hope you never experience one of those. I you did, you'd shut yr mouth.
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  5232. And he was such a liar, promising to release the classified info pertaining to the Saudi government about 911. The politicians are no good, all of them.
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  5233. It's not what she did, it's her complete lack of judgement, and reckless disregard for evidence.
    1
  5234. Cop could have made a much better impression by showing respect (even though kid doesn't deserve it !) Use a posiitve model. Be nice, which shows kid cops are civil. Instead of "don't hang around this dickhead." It's been shown that positive model works better in the long run. But would not have fired him.
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  5235. There's no right or wrong here. It's your opinion versus someone else's opinion.
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  5236. Dodd Sss "she assisted him by not trying to stop him...." But in most states, inclusion Massachusetts, failure to intervene isn't against the law.
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  5237. +gottabezac "Her messages had a direct impact," But the question really is, was Roy powerless to stop that impact? That's key for me.
    1
  5238. I guess they didn't teach you the difference between facts and beliefs.
    1
  5239.  @gracegotthis3704  The truth movement doesn't know how to do research. So here's one of my favorite test questions for truthers. Do you believe the patently and provably false "fact" that the cell phones calls in 2001 were impossible?
    1
  5240. Are you afraid to answer?
    1
  5241.  @gracegotthis3704  I already asked it. But you may have to click on "sort by newest first" to see it because of YouTube's recent malfunction (it better not be deliberate) But I'll just post it again: "The truth movement doesn't know how to do research. So here's one of my favorite test questions for truthers. Do you believe the patently and provably false "fact" that the cell phones calls in 2001 were impossible?"
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  5242. Sanity actually prevailed and the parents were not charged. As the DA had to remind the Youtube mob, if you've ever been a parent you know how quickly and easily a child can slip away from you. A single second's distraction can do it. What I don't understand is why these posters see no negligence on the part of the zoo. How safe can an enclosure be if a child can slip into it in literally seconds? I see this incident as a fascinating insight into human nature. How it is that I and you see things through such different lenses. I'm not saying I'm ultimately right or wrong. It's just fascinating to me.
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  5243. Maybe it was back then, but Qantas doesn't seem to think so.
    1
  5244. Some do and some don't.
    1
  5245. And you were in on it.
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  5246. I am continually shocked by the cruelty expressed in these forums.
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  5247. An unsafe zoo is even dumber. Did you forget about that?
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  5248. No one is forcing you to accept gays. There is little evidence that gays are more likely to prey on kids. Pedophiles are a very different class of people than gays or straights. Their primary attraction is kids, not adults. Gays could be considered mentally ill. I'm open to that. But not by the usual criteria of a mental disorder. What is your definition of a mental illness or disorder?
    1
  5249.  @stopcensorship7705  Public schools maybe. But the public as a whole does not run away kicking and screaming. They embrace it voluntarily, too. It's like cramped airplanes. In one sense the airlines force it on us. In another sense the public enables it by continuing to insist on the cheapest possible fares.
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  5250.  @stopcensorship7705  "This review critically examines whether sex hormone exposure during prenatal or early postnatal development determines the adult sexual orientation (sexual preferences) of animals. In rats, hamsters, ferrets, pigs, zebra finches, and possibly dogs, either early castration of males or early testosterone treatment of females or both have been shown to change or reverse sexual orientation." If it can do so in rodents and pigs, then you cannot rule it out in humans. Stop pretending you know what the cause of homosexuality is. You are a zealot, not a scientist.
    1
  5251.  @stopcensorship7705  Still awaiting the proof hormones could not possibly be the cause of homosexuality. Stop confusing immutability with causation.
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  5252.  @TheFaySchoolKids  Well he can always ask his mom, next time she appears.
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  5253.  @christianwatchman5567  Maybe a bit obnoxious, but satanic is pushing it. However I will have a look at your channel. I'm guessing at base, even if there was nothing "satanic" here, what undoubtedly drives you is a personal dislike or disgust with people who are gay, bisexual or trans. That would remain the case no matter what. Am I guessing correctly? I am a gay man. Am I satanic?
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  5254. By grade 3 I knew the concepts of poor sportsmanship, bad manners, juvenile tantrums, and bluffing bullies. I am trying to put together a thesis to explain how normal well-mannered adults are not able to register what 9 year olds know. Perhaps you can provide some insight.
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  5255. They must be in a constant state of misery knowing gay people exist.
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