Comments by "ootmaster1" (@ootmaster1) on "GOOD HEAVENS LOOK AT THE TIME! Time to Ridicule Bernie Sanders and Socialism Again!" video.
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@georgivelev5783
Socialism is in a sense capitalism's shadow. It will always be there, no matter if you like it or not! It has been born by the failures of capitalism the same way capitalism has been conceived and born in blood and violence by the revolutions against Feudalism. Socialism is the critique of capitalism and where capitalism fails, socialism tries to give a solution, an answer. Like capitalism, socialism also evolves over time and develops. FOR EXAMPLE, the socialism of 21 century is not the socialism of 20th century. And this is true for capitalism too - you don't have colonialism, slave markets, you don't have child labour and shockingly long working hours and work weeks, which are a couple of wonderful examples of what capitalism used to be, used to accept as "normal". Of course slave markets are not something invented by capitalism but should make you think how wonderfully those two things used to coexist together... I am putting it out there for all the market lovers, just as a side note. The socialism of 21st century is not for total domination and control of the government, which in fact would be a state capitalism, but is for the reorganisation of the work place and giving the power in the hands of the many, the working people who produce the fruits of the society. The slogan is: "Democratise the enterprise!", because the enterprises are where people spent the most of their lifetime and yet the last place where democracy exist. This is really strange if you ask me for an American society which fetishises democracy, don't you think? What type of democracy and reorganisation should be put in place is a subject for another discussion. Just for a comparison, in Germany, by law, companies of different size have to include proportionate number of representatives of their workers in their board of directors. Wow, I wonder why?! Well this is something unthincable, TRUE COMMUNISM, according to your beloved Bloomberg, everything will collapse, he says and yet Germany - the economic spine of the EU... interesting. They allow more fair share of engagement of their working class than America does...
I feel like we would end up spending far to much time defining terms. I just fail to see how there would be any difference between old socialism and new socialism. being that they both as you describe, as
giving the means of production to the working class.
"by law, companies of different size have to include proportionate number of representatives of their workers in their board of directors."
And what is this going to do? What " fair share of engagement" will this produce? just more people to bribe and become corrupted
"your beloved Bloomberg,"
Excuse you? GTFO
In general, none of these economic models are perfect but they follow gradual progression of overall development. To suggest that socialism is a failure means you are historically inept. I can give you simple examples. The fastest growing economy of the 20th century is USSR, the fastest growing economy of the 21st century is China...
And these things happened in a vacuum solely due to the economic models they used? surely you jest, especially with china, china would not be what it was without teh corruption of the US and the international conglomerates of business who lobby for power...
I am not endorsing the horrors of the Soviet regime, nor the suppression of certain human rights in China, I am simply pointing out what those economic models set out to achieve and how successful they were! And it wasn't merely due to the mechanisms of capitalism. Well it is well known fact that from a poor backward country Russia becomes a world super power managing to rival the United States and yet not being capitalist. All of this happening in only couple of decades! China uses a mixture between centrally planned economy and free owned and operated businesses and in 10 years will become the economic power house of the planet...
Good thing most products out of china are garbage, good thing they manipulate their currency, and lobby the us firms to send business there, yeah good economic model by bribing people to rig the game in there favor...
The history of both economic models is filled with trails and errors. There are multiple types of capitalism the same way there are multiple types of socialism, so it is fair to say socialisms. It has been like this with capitalism and it is the same with socialism, the only difference is that one is more than 200 years old and the other one not as old. You should already know these things if you pretend to understand the merits of capitalism, but I guess you are only interested in pointing out the death counts and not acknowledging any of the positives which the left movement has created, which by the way concerns you directly. Not only you but the guy up there on the video as well! I hardly doubt that neither you nor him are billionaires and in such case your life depends more on the reality of your job than anything else. You should be really concerned what is your place as a worker in this society and what dividends you get by being one.... Answer this to yourself and be very honest to yourself.
Yeah if only giant international businesses didn't lobby my government full of corrupt individuals to sell out the country for a quick buck. surely this is the fault of capitalism somehow. I dont know about you, but there isnt much " capitalism: in the us when the government is in charge of everything. unless this means in your definition of capitalism that the free market has no bearing on anything. But you seem to attribute slavery to the tenets of capitalism
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@georgivelev5783 " there is no smugness" followed immediately by "learn to read"
Sure
"yes of course it will boost them, they will share the profits, the dividends, the grants, whatever you want to call them.
How? by doing what? you think this will have no effect on outsourcing? would this have no effect on employment?
This is the logic, so to deprive them of this is softly said a GROSS exploitation! A crappy, unsecured job for crappy money when at the same time one person gets billions... this is rather grotesque, I think.
You complain about worker exploitation, but claim china is doing well? how is this a good idea to further incentivize offshoring of work? If the same standards were held to china, then it wouldnt be financially better to ship work there
And at the same time same people can't send their kid to school, cause of crippling debt for school tuition fees, house mortgages and loans for cars... RATHER GROTESQUE! Call it envy I don't care, this is not right and everyone knows it is not right!
College has become a scam, degrees are worthless now. We are importing " high skilled immigrants" to work the " college degree jobs" further driving t hose wages down and growing the supply of workers in stem fields. at the same time we off shore low skill labor, we are also importing hundreds of thousands of low skill immigrants ( legal and not) yearly to kill off low wage jobs. Second off, community college is a thing and far cheaper, trade schools are cheaper, dont forget that exploding the population has a large impact on the cost of housing, and if you need a loan to buy a car, you cant afford that car...
Where is the reason in this system, I don't see any. This system produces inequality since the very start of distribution of wealth, and then tries to justify the mess it creates, and then you wonder why some people are in the position of Bloomberg corrupting and forging laws to serve them, well this is why it is, because if you have such division of labour and such distribution of wealth you get this monstrosity of a society.
I explained the " reasoning" its lobbying and corruption. " exploitation of the worker" is just the vehicle for this mode of operation.
- capitalist enterprises are UNDEMOCRATIC by their very nature!
SO what the hell is a "capitalist enterprise"
I open my own business, am i now undemocratic? are people forced to participate in and pay for things from my business? Why is it big buisness = capitalism? Is small business capitalistic? is owning the means of my own production capitalism? or is everything with you an oppressor/oppressed mindset?
No wonder why businessmen buy the politicians and power. As the time goes they manage to either pass convenient laws, bypass laws or not follow them at all - this is how wealth operates. The working class are the ones who have to buy the politicians to serve them, not the other way around. With every denial of this reality you effectively help the rich by indirectly defending their interests for them!
How in what manner am i defending the interests of the rich by wanting protectionist policies and less social welfare? I want less government legislation and interference. I want a freer market, not to be dependent on foreign nations
SO think about that, you are the working person who creates fruits for this society,...You, as a working person should have all the comfort in the society, tax reductions, benefits of all sort
Well if the government didnt take half my paycheck with taxes, and require exorbitant sums to regulatory and fee based gate keeping practices to small business to keep the markets non competitive, so people like bloom berg can reap the benefits. this CANNOT be done without the government
The unions have fought hard and now when the automation and the artificial intelligence are here the productivity of workers has doubled, or maybe quadrupled and you wonna tell me that we will be on a 40 hour work week with a weekend and a crappy job with crappy salary going nowhere and save our entire lives for a crappy house while Bloomberg best the 60+ billion!
And thinking unions in today sage are any better than these bloomberg types you are far more naive than I. Corruption and lobbying is a huge problem with unions. Ever wonder why government projects are always over budget and over time?
I don't think so, this is not normal and majority of people do not except this for normal. This is why they feel misrepresented and disenfranchised by the system. And this is the reason why they vote for Sanders, this is the reason why people voted for Trump, they thought he was different. Obama is the reason why Trump sits in the White house today and why everybody is talking Sanders, Obama did not do ANYTHING to overturn this system since the crash of 2008 which the RICH, THE BANKS AND THE BIG CORPORATIONS CREATED!
End the fed, repeal the 1965 immigration act, begin another round of repatriation, tariff imports, and let it self correct. Raising taxes just to institute more welfare programs and entitlement programs is not going to fix anything. it will just continue the cycle of collapses on a longer timescale
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