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ootmaster1
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Comments by "ootmaster1" (@ootmaster1) on "Sneaky Ways Car Makers Are Ripping You Off" video.

"batteries inside the frame" Yeah i was totally looking for an ecological disaster of an idea
148
@Asakha1 you can have electronic fuel injection without needing 57 modules to run it... Car design peaked around 1999
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@TheBoxingNinja uhhhh plastic intakes? plastic coolant tubing? biodegradable wiring? ( actually that might have been MB, but point stands)
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@tuurschellekens5385 Do you actually believe the garbage you spew?
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@Aryan A its not gonna last that long and most people can figure that out.....
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@aljazbogataj6208 bruh did you stroke out? you need an ambulance?
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@theskatingalpiner9440 ehhh, id say the cutoff point was in the 2000's, some decent cars existed up till 2010, but the 2000s was the beginning of the decline
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@tuurschellekens5385 "What I mean is that you only would have to replace the car, and also the batteries, when it is literally falling apart." you understand that the battery isnt going to last 10-20 years right? you can grasp that the battery or major components in the vehicle will fail long before the car is " falling apart" " Tesla is the only car company combating planned obsolescence by providing OTA-updates" and they are the only company to be able to remote remove features a car came with second hand, and removes saftey features for cost... you have some tesla on your face
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@tuurschellekens5385 " the batteries will last as long as the entire car does, so you HAVE to replace the entire car, not only the battery." oh cool, so planned obsolescence, where you cant replace things and need to buy a new one... why did we solve this by creating the same problem?
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@Paul S "And other car manufacturers aren't guilty of planned obsolescence?" Oh neat, i love the part where i never said they didnt. this is a thread talking about tesla batteries, and having them as part of the frame making replacement more complicated and its ecological impact... so stop putting words in my mouth "Toyota and Honda aren't what they used to be" No sht, cars have been trash since 2010
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@olakeonda9471 yeah, the mid 2000s was when everyone started making plastic everything... shit, now we have plastic intakes, and plastic cooling systems with 60 psi or more under em.
3
@Paul S or, we can have a design that DOESNT mean we have to thrash the entire car to change a battery, EVEN IF battery tech is magical... thats the point here
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@Aryan A yeah dude, i did some low level googling for " high mileage teslas' and every single one of them ahs had multiple battery replacements but go off on the magical half million mile batteries
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@Aryan A hey where are they? i cant find any
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@rj6110 "plastic intake and coolant pipes are no big deal" Thanks for letting me know you have zero concept of why this is a bad idea.
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@TheMilk Trafficker uhh plastic coolant pipes are a fucking time bomb....like wtf
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@jays.7923 i mean you could argue which decade was better using different metrics, but i think a general rule of thumb is 1999-2009 was the point where, advancements in safety, emissions, and quality reached its peak, where everything after than is diminishing returns, and negative outcomes long term like, im glad i can drive and not blow clouds of toxic fumes behind me, and fuel injection is better than a carb imo
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@tuurschellekens5385 "lifespan" ahh reminds me of " lifetime transmission fluids"
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id just settle with specs molds, and equipment to build older parts and to get them to stop making everything out of plastic would go further
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@CFIREytb ev lasting 500k miles =/= 500k miles with the original battery
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@rj6110 lol no, but the repair bill when your cooling system explodes because the plastic is brittle from heat cycled coolant and being plastic inside the hottest part of the engine bay will be a little scary hahaha
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@H45N3P lol its so ugly but any time i say that im hit with "but beauty is subjective" And im like some things are objectively ugly...
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@bowez9 LOL the guy i was replying to said he worked at an OEM, and i said it couldnt be ford because he said parts are engineered to last... you know where the ford 3.5 ecotec water pump is? tell me that engine was engineered to last LOL
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Uh im sure its less "then at 50K miles we will make X break" and more " we need to make it at least passed the warranty period in order to offset the cost of recalls while using the cheapest parts and materials possible"
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stop
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@jort93z do you even listen to yourself? "Cars have large angled touchscreens instead of din slots because they are more ergonomic and a better use of space." you realize you are replacing tactile buttons that can be used without taking eyes off the road for a massive touch screen in the middle of the console is a terrible idea "Phones made batteries non swappable, because that made them a lot thinner(swappable batteries need to have a hard case, also, the back of the phone can not be structural if it has to be removable, so the case needs to be thicker). " this is laughably false, and you have no idea what you are talking about
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@jort93z "not really. You need a touch screen anyway, for navigation. So it is just combined into one unit." You dont need everything in the car controlled by a touch screen, you are making more problems by solving one that didnt need to be solved.... you can have integrated GPS without adding a giant tabled that controls everything on the car... wtf "No, it is not. Phones have gotten considerably thinner with smaller bezels once they stopped including swappable batteries" And you can still change them... size has NOTHING to do with that..... you have clearly never changed an ipod battery before "ALL phones with swappable batteries need the batteries to have a hard plastic shell. Batteries without a hard plastic shell have a higher energy density, because they only need to be covered in a thin layer of polymer." uh huh, and you can have those inside the phone and have them be replaceable like they do now..... you dont know what you are talking about
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@jort93z "So how do you want to control a gps?" the same way i did before massive infotainment screens, a dedicated GPS unit... "Controlling a gps without a touchscreen is a pain in the ass, ever used a gps without a touchscreen?" Ever think of the concept of not having everything in the car tied to your GPS screen as a solution ? "I have changed many batteries, not an ipod one, but batteries from sony, samsung and huawai. You can still change them with some afford sure." some afford? ELS much? "They are not considered user replaceable because they are easily damaged" So what? they could MAKE it user serviceable, but they they would lose out on repeat trips to the service department and new phone sales... "Even a poke with a screwdriver can destroy them. batteries from an old nokia or whatever, you can throw against a wall because of the hard case." AGain, you have no idea what you are talking about. have you never seen hard shell batteries explode before? you realize its the exact same thing with a teeny tiny layer of plastic on it right? "IPods DO NOT have user replaceable batteries." And why not? oh thats right, because planned obsolescence is a thing... "User replaceable means an end user can buy a battery and replace the old one without any special tools. That is not the case for 99% of current smartphones" And there is really no reason for this... like which? I know what I am talking about. You dont, you could easily make iphones have user serviceable batteries.
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@jort93z "the same way i did before massive infotainment screens, a dedicated GPS unit" With a touchscreen?... They just want to integrate the gps in the Car, makes sense don't you think? You do realize we have done this before and DIDNT replace everything with a giant touch screen right? like you are aware that vehicles with integrated GPS systems also had completely independent tactile buttons for every other function of the vehicle rights " yup, shitty solution though." wow "So what? they could MAKE it user serviceable, but they they would lose out on repeat trips to the service department and new phone sales... " "No they could not, that would make them considerably thicker, as stated. If you want them to be user replaceable, you need to choose other batteries." Wtf are you talking about dude? they dont NEED to make the batteries non user serviceable to keep the same thickness... thats nonsense... "No, because they were some the thinnest touchscreen devices on the market at the time" What is the point of a fancy wonderful piece of technology, if you cant fix parts if it breaks? just so you can throw it out and get a new one? why? "you could easily make iphones have user serviceable batteries." Yes, but they would be either thicker, or have a smaller capacity." absolutely wrong and based on absolutely nothing
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@jort93z " Hi i cant imagine or conceptualize a battery that is thin, doesnt have a large hard plastic backing, and can be user replaceable, and want to embrace throwaway devices"
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@jort93z 1. you are still doing the mocking quote thing i did 2. you CAN have thin batteries, thin phones, AND replaceable parts. 3. Trading workable, repairable devices, for essentially single use products, because they are a few MM smaller is a terrible trade
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@jort93z What mocking quote thing? "Hi i cant imagine or conceptualize a battery that is thin, doesnt have a large hard plastic backing, and can be user replaceable, and want to embrace throwaway devices" "nope. it is a trade off. if you make parts replacable, the phone gets thicker" Ok, phones stay a few MM thicker, but can be maintained for much longer. thanks for illustrating my exact point... Why would we need fragile tech devices as thin as poptarts if they break easily and cant be replaced? what is the point? . "most people don't think so" Most people are dumb, and have terrible taste, lets not pretend the vast masses are in any way measures of good design "Lets take lenovo for example. Thinkpads have had replacable GPU's, cpus, harddrives, batteries... for years, yet most people but their ideapads, which are thinner and in general more compact but have barely any replacable parts." And lenovo laptops are some of the worst ive used in recent years purely because how thin and cheaply made they are. but " people buy it so its better" "If people rather buy products without replaceable parts, guess what they'll produce" Ahh yes, so we should just keep up disposable appliances, and scale them to vehicles, because " thats what people want" "current thinkpads have less replaceable parts as well. Not because that gets them more money, but literally because they sell better that way." what? its cheaper to make, therefore cheaper to sell....
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@Paul S buddy, if you arent going to address what i said why are you replying?
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@tuurschellekens5385 "There are still model S's driving around from 2012 with hundreds of thousands of miles on them." sure, and how many still on original batteries? dunno, but that isnt the point. the point is the suggestion to make batteries an integral part of the vehicle frame makes it impossible to change the battery without destroying the car or making it increasingly difficult to change. " but muh magical battery tech that doesnt exist yet" so? how does better tech change bad design? " I dont know on which device you are typing this on but they can just do the same, that wouldnt yield them many customers, now would they? And if there is one thing Tesla does best and is its number one priority, it is safety" they literally changed the front detection instruments because cameras are cheaper than lidar or rader whichever ones they used. you can keep pretending that tesla PR talking points are reality, but nah
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@Aryan A oh ok, ill take that as " i was talking out of my * and was proven wrong"
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@tuurschellekens5385 oh, and they disable stuff like super charging, or Ludacris speed remotely, even though the car originally was sold with it...
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@Aryan A to be fair, tesla is the apple of cars
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@CFIREytb 500k miles with "Those were with the same battery. " No ah yes, the pr team for tesla is here im sure that when they say you can have 1000 recharges it means they can last 1000 recharges, or when they say you have X miles of range, that you actually can go X miles... OK
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@tuurschellekens5385 "Why would you want to replace the battery if the car around it is falling apart before the batteries itself?" Why do you keep asserting that the battery will last longer than anything else in the car despite literally decades of contrary evidence? "You have no idea, that battery tech does exist. There are a lot of Model S's with original batteries" empty words with nothing backing them. literally has zero bearing on this comment chain specifically about poor design... "But keep dreaming about your gas cars that are going extinct." So you are just an anti ICE troll? pretty weak "What do you know about bad design?" Creating an environment where changing parts or replacing them requires replacing the entire object is pretty bad design... Many industry experts like Sandy Munro encourage a structural batterypack. Ok?i dont care? this doesn't change anything ive stated thus far "Yes they went away from radar, but that doesnt make it unsafe or more unsafe" You cant even pretend dude, its an inferior system of detection that has been used over the original design because of cost cutting. you need to wipe that tesla off your chin before you continue "It does exactly the same thing as before but cheaper, so why not do it?" You tell me i dont know what im talking about but you said this with a straight fcking face? wow
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@tuurschellekens5385 "And may I ask, are you an ICE fanboy and if so, why do you are about the environment so much all of a sudden?" what do you mean " all of a sudden" what is this BS you throw at me dude? using an older car and keeping it running longer is always going to be more environmentally friendly than replacing an entire car every time the battery reaches its " end of life" doesnt even get into the topics of how the materials for building the damn things even come from or the process of getting them here, or the process of charging them
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@tuurschellekens5385 'Because it will outlast the car." No it wont. saying it doesnt change reality "you can just google it or contact old model s owners, I dont need to tell you." apparently you do, because i DID google, any high mileage tesla has already had at least 1 battery replacement in its lifetime.. find me 200k+ telsas on original batteries and ill believe it "Im not an anti ICE troll, I just go with what is superior and better for everyone." And you are clearly doing a terrible job... "How is what i said different with ICE vehicles? When an ICE vehicle is rusting away, or the engine is irreparably broken , you throw it out." Or, you fix it? you are aware you can repair a rusty vehicle right? you are aware you can rebuild engines right? or at the very yeast can rebuild it with a replacement block, and you dont have to mine tonnes and tonnes of materials for batteries from third world countries, and then have to later deal with teh ecological disaster of now recycling these batteries "Just as you would with an EV." Um no "It does. A guy with more than 30 years of experience and probably 30 more years than you is probably more knowledgeable than you" And this is just an appeal to authority while not discussing the subject matter at all... "Its not an inferior system, cameras with AI can detect things just as good as radar." No "It literally does that, dont argue with me" Top notch argument bud "I just did my research and listened to people with expertise. (Tesla has the best engineers)" " i listened to tesla because tesla knows the best so they said tesla is the best so i believe them" Wow dude ,not even gonna touch that "Because you were talking about an ecological disaster in your original comment. ICE vehicles are the ecological disaster." No, they really arent, and you keep pretending that it isnt is why it will be... "Aah there we go, now the already refuted EV drawbacks are coming." Sure buddy, sure "Things like cobalt, which arent that good, are getting fased out, while they are also used for making gas. The process of getting them here is nothing different from other materials that are used for ICE cars." This is just explaining to me you dont grasp how anything works "Charging is really efficient and can be made even more green than it is now by making the entire grid greener. this is just empty talking points with ZERO understanding of electricity, the grid, renewable energy. or how infrastructure works you cant grasp the logistics of these things, so you just listen to what other people tell you about it... wow, you think too highly of yourself on a youtube comments section bro
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@Paul S "How will they replace the batteries when damaged? Not our problem, Tesla will be the one fixing it not us." Are you this thick? "Even the current skateboard battery packs are very rarely repaired or replaced because most of the time if they battery pack is damaged it's a total loss anyway" Man, its like, you got THIIIIIIIIIIIIS close to grasping the concept, but you just missed... "It's in Tesla's best interest to simply the process as much as possible, like they already have with stamping. As long as the batteries are being recycled then they are doing their part and at the end of the day we are still reducing hydrocarbons" wtf are you even talking about dude?
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@Paul S Where is there anger dude?
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@tuurschellekens5385 "I dont think too highly of myself. You havent debunked any of my points with good arguments." Yeah, you do... and you havent given me any arguments. You tell me teslas last great on original batteries, i ask prove it, you tell me to look it up, i look it up and see anyone with teslas over 200k has had at least 1 battery... the other guy said 500k, and i looked, there were telslas at 500k, but they were on their 3rd or 4th battery... saying i didnt give you a solid argument is a joke... "The only thing you say is 'no' or 'you clearly dont know how it works'." Its quite apparant "Let me tell you, I have done my own research and I dont take info from others without investigating myself" Sure you do..... "I know how these things work in and out, I have read countless articles and stuff to know EVs are greener and that Tesla has the best engineers, etc." Good lord dude "If you would have had one good argument I would have been interested in reviewing your side of the story, but your arguments have only led me to believe you have 0 experience and knowledge about the topic." You cant just " no u" my own point at you dude thats not how this works "For example, how do you conclude I dont know anything about electricity from 1 sentence? In that sentence there isnt one lie" You buy into this green EV cars are good for the environment garbage, when in reality they are just as bad as ICE, and current EVs are not going to be these amazing wonderful million mile things. You accuse me of being a hypocrite caring about the environment and preferring ICE vehicles... you are an arrogant green head who buys into all the schlop they read
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@CFIREytb so, -Less than 6 years old -small sample size -still doesnt change anything
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@CFIREytb " assume your concern about an environmental nightmare means that you only walk, bike and take public transit?" so were going with this... being against more pollution means i have to have zero pollution or im a hypocrite? cmon dude
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@Paul S Ok so you keep talking about battery tech that doesnt even exist on a mass production scale yet. "and nobody will ever have a reason to buy a Camry or Accord ever again, " LOL
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@Paul S "china" no thanks, ill pass
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@CFIREytb "Public transit is not 0 pollution, but you seem anti-ev on the basis of emissions or the environment" No, im anti " installing batteries as integral parts of a cars frame" on the basis of the environment. and im against evs as a " magical cure-all for pollution in transportation" It also has glaring environmental issues as well... "And since it has been proven time and time again that an EV is more environmentally efficient than a gas car (in lifetime emissions), I would have to assume you only use public transit. Since its the only thing with lower emissions." Yeah see this isnt really an honest framing of the situation... Pumping out more evs (which STILL require resources, transportation, material gathering, and still need power to be created, and used) to replace ICE cars is just going to lead to further "disposable" behavior like replacing a phone every time something breaks. Its going to create far more waste than necessary, while keeping an ICE running longer and longer is reducing is pollution footprint while costing the end user less money generally speaking. "you gave 0 evidence. I actually gave something. A small study is still better than no study and just ignoring facts about Lion we have known about for years." Buddy, OP was about environmental waste by making the battery integrated into the frame of the car, thus rendering it impossible or extremely difficult to change the battery when it inevitably dies. the response to this is " well just get a new car" and then the complete lack of awareness of my point becomes apparent you giving me a study talking about a car thats less than 10 years old is meaningless to the overall point of the discussion...
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@CFIREytb "Earlier I specifically addressed this, no?" No you didnt? "I agree that batteries in the chassis is a stupid idea" 👍 "My point was that batteries do last a long time" And MY point is that they die faster than you think... "Replacing the battery is half the drive train of an EV" No, i dont think thats a fair comparison "It is also cost prohibitive to replace half the drive train in a gas car." I mean i kinda doubt that "My 12 year old mini was totaled when the transmission failed after 120k miles" Well KBB throws avg 4-6k for them, so i find it hard to believe a new transmission replacement would run you over 3k "Had to get a new car after that. If a mini lasts 120k miles, then a roadster(which had much worse batteries than modern EVs) lasting longer than that with minimal loss is pretty good. this is such a terrible comparison... you can still replace the transmission of the car, there is nothing wrong with it.. " i had to get a new one" is such a lame point because it PROVES my point. the car didnt need to be thrown away, and replaced. "Which is why I personally prefer Ford ATM for EVs (Ford also uses probably the industry's best battery formula in comparison to other EV manufacturers.)" gross, sorry, ford is out for me. killing all their cars and only having trucks, suvs and mustangs? EV ""mustang""? no thanks
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@CFIREytb "A Rebuilt Transmission(not a new one, but a fixed up one) was 3.5k including labor." Right, so it can be fixed, and 3.5k isnt an absurd amount of money in regards to buying another vehicle. "A car is totaled after like 2/3rds of value for a repair depending on the state/insurance company." Im well aware. This doesnt change anything about what i said. It can still be fixed, and throwing it away is far more detrimental "I did when we went on a tangent about public transit. Was my second reply I believe." yeah no YOU went on a tangent about public transit, i never talked abou ti "If you don't like trucks you don't buy ford. The f150 is the top selling vehicle for the past 40 years." Yeah, and they have been trash for the last 20, but yeah, lets take a company that was instrumental in mass car ownership to stop making actual cars... wow... blows my mind how this is ok "Wish the Mach-E didn't put mustang infront of it's name, it's a damn good ev thats only hated for the title they gave it." I mean its still ugly, and suffers from the same problems modern fords do, plus teh problems EVs have.. "Also, Hyundai and VW gotchu then." no, no one has me, only cars that are already existing have me "And nobody is ever buying a musting for the environmental efficiency or as a daily driver (if they are their just stupid)." Mmmkay, not sure what people buying a mustang for environmental impact has to do with anything i said while bringing up ford,. but if you are telling me people dont buy mustangs to daily all the time you clearly dont know the car market whatsoever. you do know v6 automatic mustangs were a thing, and sold well as people drove them all the time right? like i see mustangs all over the place... "idk the exact details, but I sold it to a mechanic and I'm assuming he's either gonna replace the transmission on his own (negating the very high cost of mechanics) or use the parts to put into other minis." Id bet you anything he went to a junkyard, bought a used transmission for 500 bucks, and tossed it in in an afternoon and flipped it for twice what you sold it for. . Again the point being it wasnt necessary to get rid of, and is very likely still driving "Drive trains are incredibly expensive parts to replace. just a rebuilt transmission could be 2k+ that's not including every other part of the drive train that also exists." As opposed to 30, 40, 50, and 60k$ new vehicles? or the 18-15k used market range? or another cheaper older car? "Any car that needs a drivetrain replacement (so a car that's around 15 years old with 200k miles) will run you faaaaaaaaar over the value of the car." Because the value of the car is arbitrary and has no real bearing on its ability to be repaired or its ability to function "Only worth it on classics or if you are a mechanic" You know basic and moderate car maintenance used to be something every car owner did regularly, but now that is relegated to " mechanics" "An ev has 1-3 electric motors and a giant multi thousand pound battery. The only Ev this isn't true of is a Taycan(which has a 2 gear transmission). So, yes, the battery is half the drive train if not more." well no the drive train would be the motors the battery would be equivalent to a fuel cell
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@Paul S "Except China Teslas are higher quality than Fremont and China is the world’s largest vehicle market" Great, move to china! "How the batteries are replaced is NOT our problem" So i guess since YOU dont care about the ownership and care of things, no one else should? also, how is making a vehicle harder to repair ever a good thing? "no modern vehicle can be repaired without special tools anyway not just Teslas" Thanks for illustrating half of another point id bring up is that you dont need special tools... I shouldnt a multi thousand dollar computer do fix a car... cars have become too complex for very little gain "What matters is that they’re cheaper, increase rigidity of vehicle structure, and have significantly more charge cycles than Lithium-ion." Yeah Fck caring about repairs, maintenance, or sustainability, just get a new one thats slightly better right? yeahhhh
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@Paul S question, have you ever worked on cars before?
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@Paul S 1. Total loss is a terribe way to determine car values... Labor costs and excessive parts are why automotive repair is so expensive. If it wasnt, many cars would be saved. But by "totalling" the car you force the owners to buy another one instead of fixing what they already have 2. Cutting away parts and adding more work to do the job will just lead to even lesser damages being "totaled" as costs go up for repairs for terrible design
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@blackrat1228 lmao thats exactly the type of stuff im talking about. Like, first off why is the ECU in the engine bay and not inside, why is that even a thing?
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you mean the one thats underneath the intake manifold, on the very top of the engine and also as one whole unit, the oil pressure unit?
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@kamilb8232 and which OEM would that be? surely not ford
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BAHahahaha
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@luke_cohen1 why do you lie?
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wrote a great book though
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