Youtube comments of ootmaster1 (@ootmaster1).
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its because for decades t hat is all the drilled everyone with.
" go to college, you dont want to work a mcjob forever do you?"
Its become a giant scam, jobs that dont require 4 years of education are now asking for 4 year degrees + experience. All that happened was college became defacto required for anything other than manual labor, and even trades are inundated with this nonsense. Thousands and thousands for certificates, licenses, etc. Not saying that having debt isnt a self inflicted wound, and thankfully i wasnt an idiot.
" its unrealistic to be able to support yourself as an adult"
You seem to forget that we are all players in a game where we dont control the rules...
We didnt ask for massively inflated housing prices, we didnt ask for million of immigrants, we didnt ask to allow foreigners to buy up property with manipulated funny money ( china), we didnt ask for manufacturing to be shipped out of the country, we didnt ask to have workers imported to the country, we didnt ask to bail out the banks, we didnt ask to pump more debt currency into the economy, we didnt ask for the government to take a third of our income, we didnt ask for never ending regulations.....
At what point can we start talking about how out of control everything is????
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Theos CA No, you presented me with garbage
"China contained Covid-19, America failed, America is equal to Brazil and Mexico when it comes to containing the pandemic "
What kind of " fact" is this?
Welding people inside, lying constantly, and disappearing whistleblowers is " containing" it?
"China has the best education on the planet according to the International PISA tests. Hong Kong has the second, and Hong Kong’s school system is the same as Mainland China. Americans literally live in an alternate reality where vaccines are a “communist strategy to give you autism”. This is a product of the third-world level American education."
wow its internationalist global initiatives. neat. i guess we can ignore how chinese studens can excel at rote memorization but fail at everything creative. nah, lets just shill the internationalists. Also dont forget the us government destroying the education system was done on propose, lookin at " no child left behind" and " common core" education is doing exactly what it was intended to.
"China is the country which has seen the most economic growth and social development in human history. Only 50 years ago China was behind several African countries, China is now the second economic powerhouse in the World and it will surpass America in 5-10 years. "
Yeah its almost like decades of the US selling itself out to china while china infiltrates the US government has something to do with it...
"More than 300 million people have overcome poverty in China in the last 10 years. That’s equivalent to the entire population in America."
ANd where do you see in the US suicide nets and dumping hazardous waste into rivers? oh right,. you dont.... strange
"China deals with Islamic terrorism in Xinjiang by means of educating vulnerable targets of islamism. America just bombs them (there is literally a video of an American military officer explaining his solution to Uyghur terrorism in Afghanistan, he suggested to just bomb the entire city)
"
LOL you mean how they put them in " reeducation camps"?
"Whilst Child Trump and Bolsonaro were acting like animals denying science and playing RPG in the United Nations meeting... Chinese president Xi Jinping acted as an adult, calling for international cooperation and strive for worldwide development and avoiding the catastrophic environmental crisis that we are facing Right now. "
Imagine actually believing this tripe
"America literally installed theocracies in the Middle East + Bombed the region because Oil prices went up due to the Democratically Elected Arabic Governments wanting to work together and sell their country’s goods for a fair price. Don’t talk about Imperialism. American companies own Capital and Land in many parts of the World. Do I also have mention how all Latin American countries had Military dictatorships installed by the American State?
"
I guess we should talk about the isreal lobby and the federal reserve if you wanna start with muh American imperialism
"China does economic and diplomatic deals and all African countries which have worked along China are now in massive economic growth, not only that, the people and the government of those countries are all happy to have a trade partner which RESPECTS their Nationhood. "
They literally shit all over Africans and treat them like garbage
... you arent even trying to not be disingenuous
"The Chinese constitution clearly states that China is supported to never intervene in foreign affairs. China has a long lasting historical tradition of not interfering in other cultures and nations. Modern China never invaded a single country on the planet, and no amount of American propaganda will change that.
"
I guess if you control the timelines of your framing statements, you can make anything look good. this is what i mean you arent even here to be honest
"Minorities in China have social and legal privileges. "
Ahh like being thrown in reeducation camps?
"They have quotas for everything and they have rights to create an ethnic township if they so desire. Not only that, ethnic minorities in China are to receive lesser sentences compared to the Han Chinese Majority. It’s in the Law."
If you believe what the chinese government tells you, you deserve whats coming to you
...
see you arent showing " facts" mostly just trying to blow smoke up people asses and shill for china
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@Zach0451
"If they did not meet the standards for a citizen's arrest," (they did) "then no citizen's arrest was made, therefore making the interaction an assault.
No it doesnt? how do you figure?no one touched him, and no one held him down, and no one pointed a gun at him until he attacked.. sorry you are wrong here
"It has not been established that he assaulted the man with the shotgun."
The video says otherwise
There are legal grounds for Arbery to have been in fear of his life, making himself entitled to self-defense.
No, you dont engage in " self defense" by attacking a legally armed man...
"Under Georgia law, O.C.G.A. § 16-5-20, a person commits the offense of simple assault when he or she either: (1) Attempts to commit a violent injury to the person of another; or, (2) Commits an act which places another in reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury. Further, a person who commits the offense of simple assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."
As you can see, this does not require Arbery to have been touched for him to have been assaulted. This is cold, hard fact. You don't have to like it.
where is the" attempt to commit a violent injury" or " immediate receiving of violent injury" here? no one touched him or trained a weapon on him, and they didnt even stop his moment. Aubrey could have continued in literally any other direction than what he did. dart around the truck and assault a man with a shotgun. he deliberately engaged in a situation that put himself in the losing position of self defense...
"You disagreeing with me doesn't make you correct. I am providing you examples that are strictly within the laws of the state of Georgia. You are providing me only with your personal viewpoint, which is irrelevant.
"
You are citing law, and then imposing your opinions into it. but ok its all on video
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Andy Lee Robinson
more lives are saved every year because of guns than are ever taken with guns.....
Defensive uses of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed. Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”
you are ABSOLUTELY paranoid about guns andy...
According to the FBI, in 2014, there were 8,124 total firearm-related homicides in the US, with 5,562 of those attributed to handguns.[8] The Centers for Disease Control reports that there were 11,078 firearm-related homicides in the U.S. in 2010.[10] The FBI breaks down the gun-related homicides in 2010 by weapon: 6,009 involved a handgun, 358 involved a rifle, and 1,939 involved an unspecified type of firearm.[11] In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the U.S. were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with unspecified firearms
meanwhile
Heart disease: 633,842
Cancer: 595,930
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 155,041
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 146,571
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 140,323
Alzheimer’s disease: 110,561
Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year,
on average 3,287 deaths a day.
An additional 20-50 million are injured or disabled.
More than half of all road traffic deaths occur among young adults ages 15-44.
turn off the propaganda machines andy
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@bliss252
I couldn't care less. My point still stands.
you dont have a point
"Negative, biased coverage" - you mean the truth? Being held accountable?
weird how its only " the truth" and " holding him accountable" its never biased or unfair coverage. If you think the news cycles for the last 4 years were fair and impartial, i cant help you.
"It always amazes me that Trumpers ( Love the stupid names you give people) watch their leader throw his weight around like a despot and generally create a toxic atmosphere by belittling, publically humiliating, vilifying, hurling abuse and defaming everyone in his path, and still turn around and say "it's so unfair how he's treated". Really? You actually expected people would tiptoe around his highness and take that sh*t? Wow, the brainwashing is surely complete."
You expected to be disrespected, lied about, and asked loaded biased questions that have nothing to do with current topics and only matter to cycling " orange man bad" 24/7 jesus i dont even like trump that much and you screeching like this is really sad
"He says..." - *she
you are a she? ok
"Ok, I'll spell it out for you - I know people like you in person that are so determined to protect Trump that you completely ignore his failures and incompetence and slyly beat around the bush when confronted directly. Better?
"
You know nothing about me, and are so far off base i cant assume you are a logically thinking person
Again:
Me: "You refuse to acknowledge Trump's incompetence.
You: "huh? I don't even know what you're talking about". Jesus.
wow its crazy because thats not what was said! i love this game!
You do know that he wasn't exonerated right? Did your bias bubble tell you that bit? Or was Trumpy's shout tweeting (that he was exonerated) evidence enough for you? So no. Wrong. Not a 'sham' investigation.
I have the muller report on my desk. care yo tell me which parts you are talking about? Want to talk about the steele dossiar? the fisa warrants? the FB bots? there was ZERO " trump colluded with the russians" to steal the election. 4 years of nothing to show fo rit except billions of wasted tax dollars. good one,
Impeachment - so you're ok with abuse of power? Why am I not surprised?
what abuse of power? the impeachment was a sham because the " investigation" was a sham. color me shocked that you dont know whats going on and just read news headlines to get your information.
"You do know he obstructed the course of justice at every turn? "
No, he really didnt, but keep believing what they tell you
Oh, almost forgot, you don't care. It's Trump, he can do no wrong.
of course he can go wrong, you just arent talking about any of that, you are just repeating the nonsense the news repeats over and over like its some sort of truth.
Vice/Now This (etc). Yeah.. just repeating what you've been told about certain sources doesn't make it true. Sorry it's not working.
Ive spent years researching and reading into political events and topics. vice and now this are symptoms of a disgusting level of bias and cronyism in media. but we cant talk about that because orange man bad
"I know you think it sounds clever to smugly dismiss sources wholesale. It's not. All you're actually doing is proving my point. You're in a bubble. You actually think it's by coincidence that you're being told to ignore everything besides what aligns with your thinking? Like I said: the brainwashing is complete.
"
Yeah almost like the brainwashing if millions of people who read news headlines and think they know how the world works. " brainwashing is complete" yup orange man bad seems to be fully operational
So Fox News were gentle with Obama and treated him with kid gloves? Ok.
compared to every single other media outlet since 2015? yes 100% you can argue that all you want but the evidence is online forever
And they've also been soo unfair to Trump (you know, coz the media is owned by the same people after all). Ok.
Are you denying that they are all owned by the same groups? or are you denying that there is endless biased negative coverage for 4 and a half years? both are wrong, just want to clarify what you are wrong about
"You have no idea who you're talking to". Is that a threat? I'm confused as to why I'm supposed to care.
lol its not a threat, but a painful observation you cant seem to make. you know nothing about me you know nothing about what i know, and you seem to THINK you know, and are arguing against what you THINK i am and what you THINK i know, and what you THINK i act like... but at the end of the day, tits just a sad strawman of what im trying to convey here. but you knew that
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-
onvention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
1. Killing members of the group;
Check out interracial crime and see this displayed ( crimes against W by NON W is much higher than the reverse, even with there being " more whites" currently
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
The levels of propaganda and anti white rhetoric are pretty apparent. Imagine being told your whole life that you are a terrible person because your ancestors did things, and you must repent for your original sin of being a European
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Pushing W to not have children, telling them they are racist and shoudlnt have kids, that they should give positions of power to people unlike them and continually import people who hate you
4.Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Propaganda, " career" focusing, feminism, welfare, and muh programs designed for non W
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Endless mass immigration, forced integration, and the facilitation of non whites being pumped into white aread to make them less wite
This is all happening and has been happening since the late 90s.... its scary and we all know how this is going to end up. either its a bloody massive conflict or W people are just " removed"
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Gilgamesh Tardigrade
1) I want a gun because i enjoy target shooting and i want to be able to defend myself
2) I want to, i dont care what you want, you are free to want whatever you want, thats the whole point
3) Again, i dont care what you think, that is up to you
4) I dont know, i am not you, nor do i care for your perspective on life, it is irrelevant to this issue
5) If you dont want to own a gun, it doesnt matter. you can get pepper spray i guess
6) If they arent waving it around and shooting people im sure its fine. but in any case if you call the police, the police can go see if they have a permit if required and the police can deal with it and no one is bothered but you.
7) " an armed society is a polite society" meaning if people who intend to commit crime know their victims are usually armed, they are less likely to want to commit crime for fear of being shot, you know, which is kind of the point
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@siukong " wrong"
yet after the gun is pulled, they are able to leave... HMMMMmmmm
Again, words have meanings and you don't get to just pretend de-escalation has whatever definition you want.
Yeah its almost like there is a hierarchy of conflict, and one side tried to de escalate from the beginning, and another side didnt... thats the whole context of the problem here
In the context of conflict resolution and law enforcement deescalation refers to a specific process where by staying cool and calm, listening, and talking it out, a hostile, aggressive and potentially violent person is calmed down to a more compliant state.
Ahh i guess you didnt see the video where the lady with the gun was doing this exact thing for quite some time while trying to calmly leave... the other side didnt also de escalate, they escalated.....
Pulling a firearm does NOT achieve that aim. By pulling a gun you are going for intimidation, and often some level of bluffing, in order to bully your way into getting what you want. This is escalation , not deescalation.
This is a reaction to escalation, not the escalation itself... if the de escalation tactics the woman used beforehand had no effect, you move up on the hierarchy of conflict until the situation is resolved...
The other party would be justified to respond to this action by drawing a firearm of their own and responding to your threat with lethal force. If that had happened in this situation one or both parties could be gravely injured or dead. There are some situations where pulling a gun is the only option. This was not one of them. There is a reason this woman still got her weapon confiscated despite ultimately not being charged of anything.
"
She did nothing wrong, and should be given her guns back. Pretending that this isnt a justified case of firearm self defense is laughable
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@smooth_concrete
"Why does he scoff at citing a 150 year old poem whilst talking about immigration policy, yet he undoubtedly, as a republican, insists we follow every damn word on written on the 250 year old Bill of Rights?"
For starters, the poem has nothing to do with the statue OR immigration, and its constantly used as an emotion cudgel to brow beat people into a less strict immigration policy ideal. And the bill of rights isnt a poem so comparing them is equally stupid as assuming that the founders were stupid enough to not see the potential for change.
"I'm sure he's all for "protecting the second amendment," a law written when the most powerful firearms couldn't kill more than one deer at a time. Couldn't help but notice the hypocrisy there."
See here we assume that the founders didnt think weapons would change. even though at the time we had puckle guns, and early machine guns. FFS they let a civilian own a fucking artillery cannon on his ship...
"Never said it should be invalidated. By the way, the second amendment begins with "In a well regulated militia," giving lawmakers license to impose restrictions. Also, please spare the fallacious name calling, it makes you look ridiculous."
The well regulated militia is all able bodied fighting age men. This doesn't give anyone license to impose restrictions..... hence, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. The PEOPLE reserve the right to form militias. there was no standing federal army at this point. The idea of having arms to defend oneself from foreign and domestic tyranny should not be restricted by the the very thing that becomes tyrannical.
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@Zach0451
We don't know if they met the standard for citizen's arrest or not."
you look up one law but wont look up this one? why? is this not relevant to the discussion of if the citizens arrest is valid.
"No one touched him, no one held him down"
Thanks for helping to debunk the narrative that it was a citizen's arrest. You don't even realize what you just did.
This debunks your " assault" and how does it " debunk" the citizens arrest? i dont follow that leap. You dont quote any citizens arrest laws, and you assume that lack of contact is proof that a citizens arrest is invalid.
The video doesn't say anything definitive. .......Dumbass.
It shows the jogger attacking a guy with a shotgun, and getting shot. And you are postulating that the jogger gets self defense?
"No, you don't engage in self defense by attacking a legally armed man..."
Interesting framing, but let's take a look at the actual self defense law, shall we?
"A person.......
See the last section here:
"*a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself*"
If Arbery reasonably believed he was at risk of great bodily injury, he would have been within his right to "use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm". If the white guys did not adequately execute a citizen's arrest, then this would have left that avenue open for Arbery. Some random guys with guns yelling at you, and then chasing you can give him that "reasonable belief". He would be within his right to defend himself from assault, according to the law.
How are you trying to argue that arbery was " threatened" while he was fleeing? no one pointed guns at him and they were on the call with police at the time... Had he not attacked mc whitey and his shotgun, and waited like, 3 minutes, the cops would have arrived... Furthermore, if your objective is to survive an altercation, i fail to see how rushing the guy armed with a short range weapon is better than running in literally any other direction....
As for the assault allegation. See the 2nd part of the law you conveniently ignored:
"An act which places another in *reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury*.
Men with a gun yelling at you and jumping out of a truck armed with said gun can meet the standard for Arbery feeling *reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury*. He does not need to be touched for this to be assault. The weapon was trained on him, as he was shot. They attempted to impede his movement by trying to apprehend him. And as explained earlier, Arbery could have easily been within his rights to defend himself, and that means possibly trying to disarm the man with the gun. Not very smart imo, but that is a real possibility. You cannot clearly say he deliberately engaged when he is running away and the other men chase after him.
First off, i didnt " ignore it" i asked you to explain how it qualifies in your opinion and you just continued to be a smug twat about it. You conveniently ignore what they were yelling, of the included phrases were " stop" " we just want to talk" and that the police were on their way. At no point prior to arbry charging mc whitey and his shotgun were any weapons trained on him. you can see this in the video. " impede his movement" so instead of him running a different direction he runs TOWARDS the truck? but in this scenario you are calling this self defense.
I am not imposing my opinion on any of this, you have no idea what my opinion actually is. I'm just giving you facts and you'll jump through
you are crafting a scenario that doesnt fit with the video evidence of the incident
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Jackson Hughes "how odd you keep such a list."
Not really? they usually brag ala spectre or Ignatiev... the best part is the quote about percentage reprenestation was from jsh virtuall ibrary
"It's funny how you guys have all these cut and past lists ready to go. Banker list. Media List, you name it."
Yeah, its almost like pattern recognition or something, IDK man
"Truth is not important to conspiracy nutters"
Hey you know calling me names and dismissing what i said as conspiracy doesnt work when conspiracies exist right?
remember mkultra, northwoods, and Tuskegee?
"There's probably thousands and thousands of nepotism examples, but the conspiracy nuts cherry-pick out the Goldbergs only."
despite being 2% of the population, they are over represented in positions of power and influence, in media, news, government, and advocacy groups... noticing things makes me the bad guy remember?
"We excel at stuff. But sometimes you guys excel too. And when you do, you are no different."
Its almost like bragging, must be a genetic thing ; )
"Replace Mr Goldberg with Mr Whitely 100% and nothing will change. Because it is not a plot."
LOL buddy, this " plot" you refuse to see, has existed long before either of us were born...
"Do you know how European movies and TV are compared to Hollywood.? What you see in America today, the Europeans were doing back in to 1970's. They even laugh at America for being so conservative and prudish. None of your arguments hold water."
What does this have to do with anything? what are you trying to argue here?
"don't think you realize how democracy works. Overrepresentation is not enough. In a democracy, the majority rules."
weird, i thought this was a republic. but more to your point, i wonder who is behind a vast push for non W immigration into W nations? HMMmmm i notice a lot of names that are easy pickings for early life checks... but you know that, because you can look it up. so you are either denying it, or complicit, or maybe you are just that naïve and are just being honest
"If an Eskimo gets a Congressional seat and there are only 100 Eskimos in the entire US, are you going to argue Eskimos have too much power in the legislative branch?"
No, how silly
"I can assure you, a 93% to 7% is a massive landslide in your favor."
2% of the population, but more than double the percentage in most places of influence? seems sus
"You don't know how the Fed works either."
I sure do, END THE FED
"Thanks for the wars."
You can thank the Js for that sht too bucko... EUROPA THE LAST BATTLE,
"OH AND DON'T FORGET TO UPDATE YOUR LISTS."
I will when people stop wishing W's to be made minorities in their own nations, being made debt slaves to international banker clans who have financed every side of nearly every conflict since Napoleon
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@alexonkst4363
"All of these points I made are correct."
No, they are not
"A simple google search on your part would help you in the long run."
yeah , likewise buddy
""They have their own countries" is an idiotic take because they are trying to leave those countries for a reason."
I dont give a flying rats arse about why millions of poeple want to flood into my country, the answer is still no
"They aren't coming to the U.S. because they're having too good of a time in their home country"
well that sounds like its not my fckin problem and they should sort their countries out instead of fleeing and leaving the rest of their countrymen to suffer... are those REALLY the types of people you want here? when the going gets tough, they get going? i dont. no tanks
"Immigrants do pay more in taxes than they take out, even if fox and the GOP tells you otherwise"
Fox and the GOP didnt tell me anything,. you are wrong. they take out FAR more than they put in when you count for school programs, healthcare, public transport, etc etc etc... you are full of sht
"Immigrants also are not stealing jobs from Americans, this is textbook racist propaganda"
Its literally not, and you are literally lying to my face and calling me racist for it. gtfo
"Yes businesses exploit their labor and keep wages low, but that is not the fault of the immigrant that is just trying to survive"
SO we should let them keep doing it and making it worse for everyone? where tf is the logic in that?????
"It is the fault of the employer that is unwilling to pay people for their worth"
because they have an unlimited supply of people coming in who will work for fractions of that worth... and you seem to just want them to keep coming and make them all legal? GTFO
"Most places require SS for employment so that those taxes can be taken out of their pay. Many undocumented immigrants are then forced to obtain fake SS numbers to be allowed to work."
Wow so not only to they break into a nation, they also commit tax fraud and labor fraud? and you want to solve that problem by just making them legal... wow what a great strategy Einstein, that SURELY wouldn't incentivize more people to come...
"This means that they are still taxed for SS, but can never apply for those benefits once they become old enough because they are fake"
BS and you can pretend that they dont commit welfare or insurance fraud too while your at it... absolutely disgustingly dishonest dude
"Please google this for yourself since you are bound to doubt me"
I dont NEED to I ALREADY HAVE, and you are WRONG
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@admontblanc
"you are a loser"
lol sounds like projection to me but please go off champ
"simping for an ideology that got so utterly crushed that merely being associated with it, even in the faintest of ways is a surefire, social downfall"
The irony of this is you think this. You literally prove my point without even realizing it. The ideology wasn't the problem, it was the international finance system, and the global war machine pushing forward in their plans for world domination
"Also, the fact that you're here, on a public forum, and not alone in how you think, should tell you that siding with the natsocs over the commies would have the same result, except it would be some loser commie crying instead of you"
The fact that you think this illustrates to me that you have a propagandized view of history.. but PLEASE keep going off
"probably your equally vile ideas burning down all the work of western cultures in the same exact way"
sounds like more projection but ok
"Because all you want is power, but according with your prophet, failure to manifest the glorious destiny of the Aryan race is proof of them being undeserving, and thus a proclamation of failure."
Literally wanting to exist is a failure? The fact that you think the way you do perfectly illustrates how badly history is told by the winners...
Come back when you achieve something worthwhile of my time, and I may actually take you seriously.
Im still not taking you seriously at all dude, you dont understand anything im talking about and come at me with a massive ego and undeserved arrogance about things you clearly know nothing about..
please keep it up, its fascinating
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@0Doves0 Buddy im not ignoring it, im stating it isnt a huge a deal as you say it is. of course it affected the market. you cant beat zero wage payments. im not saying it didnt happen, or it had no effect. im stating it isnt what you make it out to be, or others, implying the country was built on slavery, when it was clearly not so.
"How is it an European nation if America isn't in Europe?"
The people who make the country are European.
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
If you replaced most of italy with somalians, is it still italy? no, its little somalia.
". Sorry but America isn't a homogenous nation like the Nordics or Ethiopia"
when over 95% of the population is European, its safe to say its a European country. you are splitting hairs when you say different groups of Europeans are not homogenous
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@anthonydavis9842 erm no.
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root gene "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
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@swampypolitics9574 "I reject identitarianism"
You reject nature, because to you, "identitarianism" and the tribal nature of animals are the same thing, and that humans have somehow surpassed this facet of biology, just because we are self aware...
"Really the only reason the population difference is because of over and illegal immigration."
Legal immigration is almost a million a year.. stop pretending this isnt a massive problem
"Assimilation is what's the biggest problem"
Many groups of people will never assimilate
"There was people from tons of nations that lived the typical American dream"
And for almost the entire existence of this country, it has been Europeans
"But there was a shared moral framework and ideals."
Not really, and only to a point. If you displace, and then remove the founding stock, the entire moral framework is lost
"Notice all the crazy shit is in democrat stronghold cities."
Notice how republican's do nothing about it, and just let everything happen on a slower timeframe...
"I've met people of all races in the rural south and rural areas that are totally different than city people. Because race isnt the factor."
Great, this means nothing in the grand numbers game. and STILL doesnt address the shrinking population of europeans
"All the bullshit comes from these deep left strongholds"
Again, and the right does nothing to stop it. the left vs right is a false dichotomy
"Theres way more to society and humanity and ideology than race"
And yet some racial groups create things, while others destroy. This entire line of thinking completely dismisses the effect genetics has on culture, and ideology.
"Race is the least contributing factor proven by people of the same race and family bloodline being in different areas and making different decision having totally different lives and world views. This is why identitarianism is useless"
This literally is meaningless... "some people do well therefore the entire concept of group differences is irrelevant" is a childish way of thinking. The bell curve exists, outliers exist, exceptions prove a rule, etc etc etc...
TLDR
The rest of the BILLIONS of people on the planet already play by tribal rules. playing against them with individualism is like a twig in a monsoon. A single stick is weak, a fas·ces is strong
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@raybod1775 no, you are in fact wrong
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
a nation is its people, and therefore, is racial in nature
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@raybod1775
"you don’t seem to know anything about the history of the United States."
Yeah buddy, sure, i could say the same for you
"The vast majority of immigrants came after the country was founded"
uh, no, the " vast majority" of immigrants came AFTER 1965.... but you totally know more about US history than i do so you should know that
"Before the U.S. became a nation, it consisted of British colonies which became states, which formally became the United States with the signing of the Constitution about 221 years ago."
Yeah, and it was nearly all european....funny, it stayed almost entirely european until 1965... but you should know that...
"It was really like the EU and really didn’t start to become a country until the Civil War and especially after World War I and the Great Depression.
seems like a pretty arbitrary point to say it wasnt a country till then..
"Of course the U.S. expanded with former French and Spanish possessions and absorbed all the people within those lands."
and what does this have do do with anything?
"I’m not saying the Native Americans didn’t get a raw deal."
what does this have to do with the discussion? you can pretend that "natives" were one cohesive group, but that would be historically inaccurate. also most of them didnt have concepts of " owning" property,
"Don’t forget pre-European Ancient Egypt, Ancient China, India as well as others that were nation/empires, not homelands before Ancient Rome was founded. Europe outside of the Mediterranean areas were homelands, but all that changed over the last two thousand years."
and what the absolute f does that have to do with current day demographic change?
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@tonycatman
"Chinese goods are garbage".
Lol. More talking points.
Yeah i guess that whenever i have goods stamped with " made in china" them being cheap flimsy trash level quality goods is just a coincidence? are you really gonna pretend that " made in china" is a sign of quality? gtfo
"You haven't been to China, and you don't know anyone who works there or owns a factory, do you ?"
what does this have anything to do with what i said about labor conditions, laws and regulations?
"You are also not in the business of importing goods, are you ?"
Uhh its almost impossible to find anything NOT made in china in your average major retailor, so please tell me what me importing goods has to do with anything i siad?
"You have also not taken the time to look at how quickly China has dealt with pollution. They have done more in two years in Shanghai than the best city in the US managed in 50 years. "
sounds like talking points to deflect from the overall point that china is the largest polluter on the planet, with india in a close second...
"They have planted more trees, and de-desertified more land."
More talking points
"Their vehicle emission standards and timescales are beyond anything the US could dream of."
More talking points
"They close companies that pollute, instead of levying a pointless fine."
Laughable, i guess all the pollution just comes from nowhere... oooooorrr just more talking points
"US Labour laws are laughable compared to the rest of the developed world. And, once again, I am guessing you know nothing at all about the labour laws in China."
Yeah because companies in the US need suicide nets, and use slave labor.. stop shilling for china, its disgusting... unless youre Chinese, then, good for you
"Disgusting and visceral". Superlatives and nothing more, while dodging the question. There's a place on the left for you."
Yeah, .because having a country known for shoddy craftsmanship and poor sanitation and pollution standards is where we want to have most of our masks and medicines from.. yeah wonderful to have very important goods in the hands of a foreign nation is fantastic...
way to go, im sure they pay you well
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@Arctc-zh6rg "Equating immigrants to dogs...yup that's also pretty racist. And fallacious."
No its neither, and you are just a dishonest baiting troll. you cant even articulate why its wrong, you just go " thats an animal and humans are different" they arent, humans are animals, they are mammals.. pretending we arent subject to the same nature that the rest of the world is subject to is insanity
"Humans are all one species and our society is based around nation states."
Ah yes, dogs, are all teh dog breed, there is no different breeds of dogs,. this is the same of cats, birds and fish.... super big brain here
"So if a human is born within a nation's borders they are legally a member of that nation."
No, you are wrong
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun,
*"a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."*
"And as they are raised through the system of that nation, they become fully part of the nation in every other way too."
except they dont. anyone paying any amount of attention to the real world can see this clear as day...
cmon dude try harder
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@Rob So then nationalism fine then. You know a nation is an ethnic group right? like, thats how nations work.....
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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Jackson Hughes
"Smarter groups do better, it's just the way it is. Has nothing to do with nepotism, that's a cop-out."
LOL listen to this guy " theres no nepotism" dude, in the list i sent there was a guy who just gave his daughter a position almost as high as his. nope no nepotism there lol
"if a certain group is trying to corrupt a society through control of the media, then why is there no difference with Sony Pictures. Universal, Columbia, Prime, Netflix(the people that gave us Cuties)? You are not explaining this. "
What is there to explain dude? do some early life checks on those involved. surprise yourself, it surprised me at first, now i see it before i even look
"These are huge studios that produce a lot of content."
aaaaand theres still tons of influence from a certain tribe, or friends of the tribe... you can keep denying it, but you can look it all up yourself.. " overrepresentation isnt real" sure buddy, sure...
"If there was a difference, I would consider your point. I would say, why does one group produce good films and the other filth. But they are not different, you are just scapegoating a certain group and ignoring the sins of your own."
Its like you arent even trying to make an argument. why would there be a difference? does a group with an agenda mean nothing else can exist at the same time? liek what are you even tryign to argue dude? whatever it is, it isnt doing very well
"I don't go around saying Mr Whitely is doing this or that. I am just pointing our your hypocrisy.
"Don't point the finger at us, when you do the same."
and there it is
"Congress is about 95% gentile." "there is no over representation
Although Js make up 2 percent of the U.S. population, nearly 7 percent of the new Congress is Jish, with 37 Jews among the total of 535 lawmakers. In the Senate, the 9 Jsh members comprise 9 percent of that body; 28 Js comprise 5 percent of the House. The record was the 1993 Congress, which included 51 Js — nearly 10 percent of the total.
"All wars are banker wars"
yeah,
Top Banks in America
Federal Reserve Jerome Powell
Bro are you even trying?
16th Chair of the Federal Reserve
Jerome Powell
Preceded by Janet Yellen
"Yellen was born on August 13, 1946,[3] to a family of Polish Jewish[4] ancestry in the Bay Ridge neighborhood of New York City's Brooklyn borough,[5] where she also grew up.
Chase Jamie Dimon
well chase bank just rolls right back up to the Rockefellers
Bank of America Brain Moynihan
Citigroup John Dugan
WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN UP TO MR. WHITELY?
honestly bud, your entire argument hinging on " here, see? heres important people who arent Jish" and it kinda falls apart when you look at percentages, and how things actually work.. but i think you already know that
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@theentangledwiggler-man2344 and every time you buy goods at a store, any time you go out to eat, every time you pay a bill, every utility, toll roads, excise on vehicles, excise on property, and now every transaction you make online is taxed.. So im pretty sure we can afford local programs and departments if we didnt need to pay the federal governments employees, pork bills, kickbacks, lifetime salary and healthcare, foreign aid, the MIC, the rest of the alphabet boys, and dont forget the fed...
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@0Doves0
"that definition you pulled is the literal definition of 'nation'. I assume that you are using 'nation' as a synonym for country just as I since we're talking about all of America, but nation and country are in fact two sperate words with sperate meanings."
A meaningless distinction
coun·try
/ˈkəntrē/
noun
1.
a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory.
"Also, where are you getting this 95% stat?."
Literally any time before 1965, that was the average since its inception
"As of 2019, white people (including Hispanic whites) numbered about 236,475,401, or 72.0% of the population. According to the 2020 Census, Non-Latino white make up 57.8% of the country's population."
isnt that amazing? from 1965 to now, almost half the nations people are of foreign populations. shocking to know that replacement migration is real, and that W people can be ethnically displaced anywhere they are majority, this is including current European nations...
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@0Doves0
"Correction: pre 1960, the white population was around 88%"
and that number never changed between 1776 to 1960? or is it safer to assume ~90 instead of 95%
" Did you not read the stats or do you not see Hispanic whites as white people? Spain is a Hispanic country. Are they not white? "
No? and furthermore, i quite frankly cant stand the white and hispanic stats always combined or conflated. really messes with crime statistics...
"Learn the difference between ethnicity and race."
I mean are we going to pretend it isnt easily seen parallel to biological taxonomy?
"Secondly, white people aren't going to be displaced."
In the statistics you yourself provided, in the last 60 years the W population fell to half of the total population, this is largely due to immigration...
"They will always be the majority even with immigration."
Are you serious? do you ACTUALLY believe that? from 1776 - 1960 was on average 90% W. thats 184 years relatively consistent, then suddenly, in less than 60 years, its almost 50%... where do you think this trend is going to continue? ask yourself honestly this question. Do you think W will still be the majority in another 60 years? yes or no?
"Do you think it's some malicious attempt?"
Yes, for a far longer time than i have been alive.
"I assure you that legal immigrants aren't moving to America with the agenda to get rid of white people."
They dont need to, the facilitation for them being there is already in place. Mass immigration is a recipe for disaster and every historical precedent shows that
"As long as these immigrants assimilate, then what's the problem?"
Firstly, most shouldnt even be here, second, they DONT assimilate, there is nothing to assimilate into anymore. You have an artificial, sterilized " culture" with no real ties to anything. a nation is its people. if you replace its people, you replace the nation. Immigration can ONLY work if it is in very small numbers, and even still, a nation deserves the right to exist, as in, this is also a problem in other European nations as they too are becoming minorities in their own cities, with the trend seeing to continue in the coming decades. Anyone who says anything about replacement migration or god for bid the G word ( if i say it in large comments, my comment gets deleted )
"The only group moving into America on mass is in fact illegal immigrants"
Not really true, legal immigration is at higher numbers than ever, with many Asian and Indian immigration via VISA importation... also another massive fraudulent problem in the county
"This is the same mentality Americans had towards European and Japanese immigrants. They saw these immigrants as a threat."
I mean you are conflating two totally different groups while being broad about one and specific with another.
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@0Doves0
"So you don't view white Hispanics as white even though they are?"
No, not all
"Spain is a majority white country but is Hispanic. Hispanic literally means relating to Spain or Spanish speaking countries."
Comparing spain to Venezuela or brazil is nonsense. and those from each would call it such
"That's why I say learn the difference between race and ethnicity. Science has identified only 4 races. Hispanic is not one of them. Race is biological, ethnicity is cultural. But I'm done debating that"
So are you implying that there is no link between genetics and culture? because i would disagree
"I don't know what the G word is so I'll just skip that"
Yeah its gen od side and we can circle back to that one later
"I understand that mass immigration can be destructive. Look at South Africa. They were made second class citizens in their own country and even still racial tensions are still high after Nelson Mandela."
You mean like how W farmers are treated right? or are we pretending that south africa wasnt made almost entirely by the dutch?
"How can immigrants assimilate if America doesn't have a culture to assimilate to anymore."
Thats the point, they dont
"The counter culture in the 60s and 70s have done away with American values and to this day they continue to try."
Id put alot of blame on marxist infiltration (See Yuri)
"I've noticed that immigrants tend to be more conservative than most Americans."
Right, weve spent the last few decades denigrating the nuclear family while importing people who dont have totally different mindsets, and family sizes. They dont assimilate to anything other than their own insular communities and your lucky if they bother with english if there are enough numbers...
"I disagree with the fraud"
You can disagree all you want, but there is rampant fraud and you can research it on your own
"but I'm not going cast judgement on all immigrants"
Well this is a numbers game based on averages, so yeah, you kinda NEED to
"This is a consequence of a globalized world"
This " globalized world" si going to lead to the erasure of the entire concept of a nation, and brand us all global citizens. this is a nightmare, and even pretending that this is ok, is alarming
Question: if it was mainly Europeans immigrating on mass into America, would you be fine with that?
firstly, depends on the numbers. current numbers today? probably not. but at the end of the day, french, dutch, english, irish, and germans will always integrate better than nigerians, somalians, cape verdians or brazillians
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@Andy B Oh boy i like explaining this one
"what does race have to do with it? "
demographics are destiny
Especially if you define race as someone's skin color,
We arent, its j just a marker for difference that is easily visible to differentiate between groups
that's a social science talk and not at all in line with genetic knowledge.
Are you denying the existence of different groups of humans being genetically different? sounds pretty anti science
By looking at the data it's the culture that makes the difference,
Hmm, and where does that culture come from? AH the people that make up that specific location... so to speak if you change the people you change the culture?
any time you have ghetto culture where most kids grow up with a poor single parent, combined with low quality education, you'll get a larger percentage of deviants.
So look at which groups of people who are high single parent and you will see a trend. But then again we arent even allowed to talk about IQ...
"Add a drug war and a criminal system that does not rehabilitate criminals into productive people and it's a no brainer."
Right, so dont break the law and dont sell drugs? i mean im not disagreeing with you in the sense that the drug war is a failure and there are far too many laws... but you can go pretty far without going to jail if you dont act like an idiot///
"And yes, there are places with 100% white population where that happens, the world does not end where US borders do."
What? the US was a 95+% white country (IE of closely related european stock)since its inception up until 1965.
"The US media has brainwashed people into dividing themselves by skin color, the past government policies"
No, the US media has been brainwashing people into thinking that we can all get along and that everyone is the same, so they can get public support for flooding the country with cheap labor and infinite sources of internal conflict to further grow their power control and strength of enforcement
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@bradbecker8982
Conservatives support government regulation of markets, which means all individuals that take part in trade, which violates inalienable property rights because it raises the cost of goods and inflates currencies etc, which are needed for life.
What the hell does this even say? it feels like a run on sentence
They also support arbitrary trade tariffs like Trump put on China, which only hurt citizens, not politicians, politicians are paid either way.
Uhh the government raised most of its money from tarrifs before the creation of the federal income tax, and no, tarrifs arent " arbitrary"
Social security
Pyramid scheme, i will never collect, because it will be empty before im even close to collecting. Its broken, and its broken because government broke it.
Medicare
Government ruined this when they ruined the healthcare system, more government isnt going to fix it
Public (government) parks... public (government) roads... public (government) waterways..
Uhh what does this have to do with anything? most " conservatives" and other right minded individuals WORK in these sectors...
Conservatives are ironically statists.
Laughable presumption right here
They claim to support capitalism, yet they pull in capitalists to Congress all the time arbitrarily and threaten anti trust from the DOJ.
What? the hell are you talking about?
Dems and Reps are two sides of the same collectivistic coin, neither are individualists. All capitalists are individualists... that work?
Uh most of what you said makes ZERO sense, but yes, politically the democrat party and republican party are the same uniparty, doing the bidding of global oligarchs
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@chungboislim2061 who owns the media pt3
Elisabeth Bumiller – Washington D.C. Bureau Chief
Elisabeth Bumiller is the Washington D.C. Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Elisabeth Bumiller is ✡. Bumiller was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony performed by Rabbi Harold White..
Adam Nagourney – Los Angeles Bureau Chief
Adam Nagourney is the Los Angeles Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Adam Nagourney is ✡ . Adam is the son of Herert Nagourney and brother of Eric Nagourney who was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony Rabbi Burt Aaron Siegel at Adam Nagourney’s house.. Adam Nagourney is also listed as a ✡ American journalist on Wikipedia. .
Steven Erlanger – London Bureau Chief
Steven Erlanger is the London Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Steven Erlanger is ✡ . Erlanger, the New York Times’ former Jerusalem bureau chief.. According to JPost, a ✡ newspaper, the last several Jerusalem Bureau Chiefs, including Steven Erlander, are ✡ ..
Alissa Rubin – Paris Bureau Chief
Alissa Rubin is the Paris Bureau Chief for the New York Times. Alissa Rubin is ✡. Among other things, the funeral for Robert Castor, father of Enid Rubin and grandfather of Alissa Rubin, was held at Frank E. Campbell, which the Times of Israel states is a ✡funeral home..
Jason Horowitz – Rome Bureau Chief
Jason Horowitz is the NYT’s Rome Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Jason Horowitz is ✡. Horowitz has written about his Passover celebrations in Italy and has described himself as “an Ashenazi New Yorker.”
Alison Smale – Berlin Bureau Chief
Alison Smale is the Berlin Bureau Chief for the New York Times. Alison Smale is ✡. Smale is married to Russian pianist-composer Sergei Dreznin , who is ✡ according to NPR. .
Rick Lyman - Central and Eastern European Bureau Chief
Rick Lyman is Central and Eastern European Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Rick Lyman is ✡. Lyman and his wife have daughters including Katie Lyman a member of different improv groups on Facebook , was also in the all-✡ play Jewvangelist
Damien Cave – Australia Bureau Chief.
Damien Cave is the Australia Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Damien Cave is Jewish. Cave has written about his Jewish upbringing and has referred to his “Mom’s ✡ relatives.”.
Jeffrey Gettleman – South Asia Bureau Chief
Jeffrey Gettleman is the South Asia Bureau Chief for the New York Times. Jeffrey Gettleman is ✡. Gettleman is the son of Judge Robert W. William, United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois.. Judge Gettleman is ✡ and served as an attorney for the ✡ United Fund before being appointed to his judgeship in 1994.. Jeffrey Gettleman’s sister, Lynn Chehab, has also spoken on the radio program hosted by Shalom Klein [95], founder of Founder of ✡ B2B Networking and ✡ Business News
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@chungboislim2061 who owns the media pt5
Jake Silverstein – Editor-in-Chief, NYT Magazine
Jake Silverstein is the Editor-in-Chief for New York Times Magazine.. Jake Silverstein is Jewish. Jake’s father is the poet Murray Silverstein, who writes poetry related to ✡ identity.. Jake Silverstein is friends on Facebook with his father Murray Silverstein who has uploaded pictures of his family wearing kippas.. Jakes life story has been reported on by ✡ Business News.
Deborah Neddleman – Editor-in-chief, NYT Style Magazine
Deborah Needleman is Editor-in-chief for New York Times Style Magazine.. Deborh Needleman is ✡, as confirmed by Clutch. Deborah Needleman is married to Jacob Weisberg who is also ✡, as confirmed by the New York Times, which stated that Jacob’s brother Joseph “Weisberg came to New York in 1997 by way of Chicago, where he grew up in a liberal ✡home.”.
Jodi Rudoren - Editorial Director, NYT Global
Jodi Rudoren is Editorial Director for NYT Global.. Jodi Rudoren is Jewish. According to JPost, a ✡ newspaper, Rudoren is ✡ and has a “background…as a ✡.” . Rudoren is the former New York Times Jerusalem Bureau Chief. The ✡ journalist Varda Epstein, on her blog dedicated to Israel, has also stated that Rudoren is ✡ . According to Haaretz, an Israeli-based Jewish newspaper, Judi’s husband Gary Rudorun is also Jewish and brought his “✡ , New York humor with him to Jerusalem.” .
Ellen Pollock – Editor-in-chief, Business Day
Ellen Pollock is the Editor-in-chief of the New York Times’ Business Day.. Ellen Pollock is ✡. Ellen Pollock was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony to her husband, Barry Meier who has discussed his parents efforts to flee from NS Germany in the 1930s..
Jennifer Steinhauer – Editor of Live Journalism/D.C
Jennifer Steinhauer is the Editor of Live Journalism/D.C for the New York Times.. Jennifer Steinhauer is ✡. Steinhauer has confirmed on Twitter that she is ✡.. Jennifer was most recently the Lead Congressional Reporter for the New York Times..
Ari Isaacman Bevacqua - Director, Corporate Communications
Ari Isaacman Bevacqua (née Astles) is the Director of Corporate Communications for the New York Times. Ari Isaacman Bevacqua is ✡. Ari was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony performed by Rabbi Deborah Reichmann at Washington’s Sixth & I Historic Synagogue..
Sam Tanenhaus – Editor-in-chief, NYT Book Review
Sam Tanenhaus previously the Editor-in-chief of the New York Times’ Book Review, but he has since left the Times.. Sam Tanenhaus is ✡. Sam Tanenhaus’s mother is Gussie Tennanhaus, sister is Beth Tanenhaus Winsten, and brother is Michael Tanenhaus. Michael Tanenhaus is the Budget & Finance Chair of Temple Solel, a Jewish Synogogue a fact also confirmed by the Washington ✡ Times..
*SECTION 5: NYT Correspondents & Reporters*
Maggie Haberman – White House Correspondent
Maggie Haberman is a White House Correspondent for the New York Times. Maggie Haberman is ✡. The Forward, a ✡ publication, has confirmed that Haberman is ✡..
Binyamin Applebaum - Washington Correspondent
Binyamin Applebaum is a Washington Correspondent for the New York Times.. Binyamin Applebaum is ✡. Applebaum attended the Maimonides School, a ✡ day school.. Applebaum has written about his time at Maimonides
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@chungboislim2061 who owns the media pt7
Robin Pogrebin – Culture Reporter
Robin Pogrebin is a Culture Reporter for the New York Times. Robin Pogrebin is ✡. Robin’s mother, Letty Cottin Pogrebin, is also a journalist and has written that both she and Robin are ✡. .
Barry Meier – Investigative Reporter
Barry Meier is an Investigative Reporter for the New York Times.. Barry Meier is ✡. Barry was married in a ✡wedding ceremony to his wife, Ellen Pollock.. Barry has discussed his parents efforts to flee from NS Germany in the 1930s..
Matthew Schneier – Styles Reporter
Matthew Schneier is a Styles Reporter for the New York Times. Matthew Schneier is ✡. Schneier has confirmed that he is ✡ on Twitter, discussing his “✡ upbringing.”
Sheri Fink – Heath Correspondent
Sheri Fink is a Health Correspondent for the New York Times.. The Detroit ✡ News has alluded to Fink’s ✡ background. Fink is a featured author of the ✡ Book Council, and she has given speeches at ✡ community centers. Enclopedia.com has also reported that Fink is ✡..
Julie Turkewitz – Reporter
Julie Turkewitz is a Reporter for the New York Times.. Julie Turkewitz is ✡. Julie on Facebook is related to Carol Blumstein Turkewitz, who can be seen celebrating Chanukah, and all of the Turkewitz’s can be seen wearing kippas.
Jodi Kantor – Reporter
Jodi Kantor is a Reporter for the New York Times.. Jodi Kantor is ✡ . Kantor has stated that her Grandmother is “a 93 year-old H survivor.” Kantor has given speeches to Columbia University’s Center for ✡ Student Life [ and the Westchester ✡Center. [. Jodi Kantor is married to Ron Lieber [, a “reform ✡” [, and the two have made personal announcements regarding their wedding. [.
Alexandra Kuczynski – Correspondent & Reporter
Alexandra Kuczynski is a Correspondent and Reporter for the New York Times. Alexandra Kuczynski is ✡ . Alexandra is the daughter of Pedro-Pablo Kuczynski the previous Finance Minister of Peru, who is ✡ according to Times of Israel..
Roger Cohen – Op-Ed Columnist
Roger Cohen is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times. Roger Cohen is ✡ . Cohen has written about growing up ✡ and having a “proud ✡ identity.”
David Brooks – Op-Ed Columnist
David Brooks is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times. David Brooks is Jewish. Brooks has written that “As an American Jew, I was taught to go all gooey-eyed at the thought of Israel...."
Thomas Friedman – Op-Ed Columnist
Thomas Friedman is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times, and he writes about foreign affairs, globalization and technology. Thomas Friedman is ✡. Friedman has stated in his writings that he is ✡.. Friedman also “attended Hebrew school five days a week until his Bar Mitzvah.”. Friedman “became enamored with Israel after a visit there” in December 1968, and he spent all three of his high school summers living on Kibbutz HaHotrim, near Haifa..
Frank Rich – Op-ed Columnist
Frank Rich is an Op-ed Columnist for the New York Times.. Frank Rich is ✡. Rich has for the ✡ Washington, stating that his father’s family was “German-✡immigrants” and his mother’s family was “Russian-✡ immigrants.”
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@rowdok
"If the employer wasn’t letting you to work for him then he wouldn’t be rich."
So you wouldnt be getting paid, and he isnt making anything? what?
"He can’t just throw money at a tree and expect it to turn into a chair. He needs people to make it into a chair and he needs people to buy the chair."
uh huh, so your options are to build a chair yourself and try to sell it yourself, or get a job with someone who facilitates these things... kinda like, i dunno, a furniture store...
If there were no businessman, you wouldnt be able to sell your chair. you wouldnt have a steady check making chairs, regardless if they sell or not. If the business fails, the owner takes the hit, the employee can just go somewhere else...
Marx did not do work, he lived off of other people for his entire life comparing marx to einstein is such a joke, i cant believe im reading it
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@EdgarFriendlysCivicsTeacher
"you're the one assuming that gatekeepers are the only ones keeping the right away from the 'real' right and fighting"
So avoiding the demographic question, the who really call the shots, the " culture is just ideas" is the same stuff that keeps people from addressing the core of issues we face, IE, gatekeeping, and controlled opposition
"The same argument the tankies make about Liberals incidentally, that their influence stops them from going the 'correct' path"
????????
"You're overthinking it. Likeability is nothing to do with reality, fair enough, just as well we weren't debating the nature of reality, we were talking about gatekeepers and Likeability matters when people look at the militant left and conspiritorial right see lunatics and gravitate to a moderate position."
ANd avoiding talking about reality so its more likeable is gatekeeping and avoiding addressing of the actual problems...
spoiler, the world is full of conspiracies
"Scroll back through this thread, average people see messages like an earlier one interracial marriages and skirting the line into some insane shit and they don't choose that. Why? I was inviting you to consider that first before you blame everyone else for your inability to convince anyone but yourselves"
So i should care about the opinions of people so far down the degeneration slope pushed through marxist education and propaganda for decades? Pretending that there is something wrong with pointing uncomfortable truths out is optics cvking
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@Raylan Givens
"I can't even believe you would type something this stupid. "
Wow how insightful of how this conversation is gonna go...
"Collectivism is LITERALLY the opposite of individualism."
I wouldnt consider them opposites
"Individualism protects the rights of the individual. Your rights are protected against what the collective wants."
Sure, until there are more " other" collectives that outvote the "collective of individuals" and then what will individualism do for you then?
"If the mob, the state, or whatever collective wants your home, your property, or your life in a collectivist driven society all of these things can be taken away because it benefits the collective."
Sounds kinda like being called a racist and getting fired from your job, or being barred from banking for having the wrong opinions. where is individualism there?
"YOU ARE PROPERTY OF THE STATE."
And this is different from " individualism" now? how are we all not already property of the state? property tax, income tax, federal reserve banking... where is individualism there? is the individual going to stop the states growth and theft of the nation?
"In an individualist ideologically driven society what the collective wants doesn't matter."
Except when they outnumber you, and outvote you, and instill themselves in positions of power, and begin to change legislation... where is individualism there?
"Your liberties and rights are protected."
Only if you can protect yourself is this true. An individual is alone against a mob...
"In communism you own nothing because the collective owns everything. In fascism, all that you "own" must serve the purpose of the state. If it does not it will be taken from you and given to someone else so it benefits the state."
Sounds well and good, but we already have soft communism in the means of endless taxes, regulatory hurdles and welfare. sure would be nice if there was a way to promote the POEPLE of a NATION... almost like some form of nationalism... but that would be collective and therefore bad according to you.....
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@Longshanks1690
"that first comment is complete gibberish"
Its not, but ok dude
"Are Europeans all part of one singular race or are the Franks, Anglo-Saxons and Celts all distinctly different races who should be treated accordingly?"
Yes, they are, and yes they can be different. I dont understand your inability to grasp this idea
"I really have no idea what you’re trying to say to get around this wholly fatal flaw in your ideology"
Probably because you have no idea what you are talking about
"The world does not run along “racial” lines, it runs off of cultural lines"
Yup, and where do you think that culture comes from? the ether?
"Again, this is why the separating factor between Anglo-Saxons and Celts or White/European is important. Do you regard the Welsh as a separate racial category from the English or are they all white? "
Your obsession with dividing " white" is the issue here man. Having common ancestors doesnt mean they will be exactly the same, and even if they are different id doesnt mean they are not from a similar ancestor... why this is complicated for you is beyond me
"Because I have a funny feeling you would lump all Africans in the same boat as black or Asians as a whole, when the same disparities exist there that don’t affect you because in your mind, they’re all just foreign."
I mean you seem to be willfully not understanding what im trying to tell you and this off handed comment just shows me you have nothing.
"Because when you examine the world, you see people all over the place of the same “race” abuse each other along lines that make no sense."
Buddy you arent grasping what im trying to explain to you... you arent making the point you think you are
"Why, for instance, would the Japanese persecute the Ainu if they are all part of the same race?
"
Because they are different even though they are very similar.. why do you think this is a point?
"For the same reason that the English persecuted the Irish despite them both being white; because of the cultural differences between them that marked each other out as different despite, on the face of it, their skin colour being exactly the same"
I mean id argue they arent exactly the same.. yet irish english and french can get along better than other groups. which ties into the common ancestor point. Identical twins are genetically the same, yet end up being different.
"but since the globalisation of the world"
Which is becoming the greatest cancer of all civilizations...
"we still hold onto these primitive concepts of race while broadening it so a Japanese-Ainu marriage creates Asian children in the mind of you, a white person,despite all the centuries of precedence showing that this is as much of an interracial marriage as someone from Zambia and Sweden."
Dude im not even going to address how absolutely moronic that is and im just going to not bother wasting my time explaining how you are wrong
"Am I getting through to you at ALL on the absurdities of your own racially polarised worldview?"
All you have done is illustrate you have no ideda what im talking about
"You are assuming correlation equals causation."
No
"Culture is, by definition, the shared practises and beliefs of a particular people which bind them together and separate them from everyone else in the world. Of course you’re going to share culture with people you’re genetically close to since they’re the ones you grew up with and around"
uh huh, yes, go on...
"but you’re assuming that there is something predetermined about biology and race which ties someone to a particular culture rather than having been born and raised in that culture."
Yeah if that were the case why do ethnic enclaves form when there is large amounts of immigration? why does Sweden have no go zones? WTF do think " china town" even came from?
You ascribe to this " blank slate" sort of ideology where a dog can be a cat if they are born and raised with cats
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@louistournas120
That's what I said. Soviet Russia was the example and this is what was witnessed from the 1918 period and onwards. You can certainly have a capitalistic country with a dictator, such as Iraq, such as Lybia.
and this has what to do with my response?
"Next, you have China, North Korea, Cambodia, Romania where the communism leader tries to hold on to power permanently and doesn't listen to others, throws anyone against him in prison."
LOL have you ever talked to a romanian about communism? ask Vee about it.
"So, there haven't been good examples of communism."
Because it in it of itself cannot function
"It doesn't mean that it doesn't work"
cmon dude
"canada has plenty of social programs and we tax the rich quite a bit to cover such costs. I hear that Sweden, Finland, Norway do the same."
social programs =/= communism
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@Lysergic_ the us, and all of the western world could go carbon negative tomorrow, and it would make no effective change.
before i even bother, im not denying the c climate is changing, im denying that humans are the main driver of it. it is entirely more likely that the sun, and earths orbit, as well as its magnetic poles have far more effect on earths climate. i disagree with the notion that co2 is going to disastrously ruin the earths climate, i disagree that anything more the average western country is doing for c02 emissions is about as practical as we can expect. Pollution, waste dumping, and chemicals usages are a far more pressing matter, and far more reasonable to combat
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@p.s.shnabel3409 I know you havent worked with them because you unironically refereed to them as " high skilled" and i worked for Infosys, top tech company that does business with basically every banking institution, mobile carrier, hospital, etc all across the country, staffed almost entirely with indians from india who came over on visas. The entire system is a joke. and miss me with that moving the goalposts BS, you compared the entire workforce of the united states with one type of visa, laughable if i say so myself. but again, its not JUST the H1, there are other visas at play because the entire system runs on cheating the system. there are multiple types of working visas, student visas, and visitor visas, and plenty of fraud. Im not " living in fear" im point out the reality of the destruction of the upper middle class.
" i wont change your mind"
thats because you have no idea what you are talking about
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@p.s.shnabel3409 Ah ... anecdotal evidence. Of course that makes you 100% correct. I take back everything I said, anecdotal evidence is the ultimate evidence.
" first hand experience inside the inner workings of "Infosys...the second-largest Indian IT company after Tata Consultancy Services by 2017 revenue and 596th largest public company in the world based on revenue"is just anecdotal" please take your condescending attitude and shove it
Every hospital etc across the nation is staffed with Indians? How, pray how? Currently, not even 500.000 people hold a H1B visa.
Their offices are under contract with infosys for tech support, or their tech support jobs are done by those under contract by infosys. why are you pretending this is a non issue? Walmart employs 1.5 million people... stop pretending your comparison with total jobs is worth my time
As for me comparing all of the workforce, that was in comparison to someone claiming that specifically the H1B visa is responsible for replacing US American workers. Which it is, and I have the numbers, not.
" all jobs across the country is comparable to one specific industry because i say so" you clearly arent paying attention. Call tech support for any number of companies and you will speak to an indian. work for any number of large chain corporations in the united states, at some point the IT is run by indians.
All I am hearing from you is fear mongering, personal experience and insults. I am getting very bored.
my " personal experience" was dealing with the country wide ( we have offices all over the country staffed almost entirely by indians btw) asset shipping and receiving. i saw the addresses and companies infosys worked with, i witnessed firs than their skill in the industry. ask anyone in the US in the tech industry about the indian visa invasion.
Take care and remember to check under your bed for gosh darned furriners before you go to sleep
" stop paying attention to an an ENTIRE INDUSTRY being destroyed and replaced by a country with over a billion people in it.. stop paying attention to replacement of american high wage earning jobs by foreigners because i can make a snide remark about it"
you are either young and naive or really brainwashed
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@DigitalGamerPixel
"the left view the world the way you do."
No, they dont. obviously
I've learned long ago talking with leftists that trying to get you to see my perspective is like talking to a brick wall. "
Ironic considering you consider yourself left wing, while also missing the fact that you just ignored everything i said in response, to offer some useless lets meet in the middle nonsense, which has again, only ever helped the left in this country. Because when the right capitulates and concedes ground to left wing nonsense, the phrase give them an inch they take a mile follows through right on cue. One example in recent history was we traded amnesty for a wall, we got the amnesty, but no wall, and a never ending stream of foreigners has since drastically changed the demographic makeup of my homeland. You just breezed by that without even addressing any of it.
"That is why I said "There's no use talking at this point." "Because NOTHING I say will make you reconsider your rigid viewpoint."
Because you didnt respond to anything i said in my long winded reply to you. You went right for a sophist " lets all just get along and compromise in the middle" filled with historical inaccuracies that i pointed out to you, which you also ignored.
You arent even having a discussion whatsoever. you just go " we just see things differently" without addressing the things that are different.
"Things are black and white to you, and the world just isn't that way"
Some things are. the fact that you can just so flippantly say that is not shocking to me
"People have different opinions and views that conflict with your own, which is okay, until it gets to the point where one side decides "My way is the right way, fuck everyone else."
When one side says " no" and the other side says " a lot" and we meet in the middle and get " a little" the only real loser are the ones who said no, and conceded. Now its too late, now the question is " a little more" or " a little less" and what do you think compromising is going to do? its going to shift further and further away
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Pt 2
Nick Rockwell - Executive Vice President & Chief Technology Officer
Nick Rockwell is an Executive Vice President and the Chief Technology Officer for the New York Times.. It is unclear whether or not Nick is ✡. However, nick’s sister Alexandra is married to David Kissinger, who is ✡
*SECTION 2: NYT Bureau Chiefs*
Elisabeth Bumiller – Washington D.C. Bureau Chief
Elisabeth Bumiller is the Washington D.C. Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Elisabeth Bumiller is ✡. Bumiller was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony performed by Rabbi Harold White..
Adam Nagourney – Los Angeles Bureau Chief
Adam Nagourney is the Los Angeles Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Adam Nagourney is ✡ . Adam is the son of Herert Nagourney and brother of Eric Nagourney who was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony Rabbi Burt Aaron Siegel at Adam Nagourney’s house.. Adam Nagourney is also listed as a ✡ American journalist on Wikipedia. .
Steven Erlanger – London Bureau Chief
Steven Erlanger is the London Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Steven Erlanger is ✡ . Erlanger, the New York Times’ former Jerusalem bureau chief.. According to JPost, a ✡ newspaper, the last several Jerusalem Bureau Chiefs, including Steven Erlander, are ✡ ..
Alissa Rubin – Paris Bureau Chief
Alissa Rubin is the Paris Bureau Chief for the New York Times. Alissa Rubin is ✡. Among other things, the funeral for Robert Castor, father of Enid Rubin and grandfather of Alissa Rubin, was held at Frank E. Campbell, which the Times of Israel states is a ✡funeral home..
Jason Horowitz – Rome Bureau Chief
Jason Horowitz is the NYT’s Rome Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Jason Horowitz is ✡. Horowitz has written about his Passover celebrations in Italy and has described himself as “an Ashenazi New Yorker.”
Alison Smale – Berlin Bureau Chief
Alison Smale is the Berlin Bureau Chief for the New York Times. Alison Smale is ✡. Smale is married to Russian pianist-composer Sergei Dreznin , who is ✡ according to NPR. .
Rick Lyman - Central and Eastern European Bureau Chief
Rick Lyman is Central and Eastern European Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Rick Lyman is ✡. Lyman and his wife have daughters including Katie Lyman a member of different improv groups on Facebook , was also in the all-✡ play Jewvangelist
Damien Cave – Australia Bureau Chief.
Damien Cave is the Australia Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Damien Cave is Jewish. Cave has written about his Jewish upbringing and has referred to his “Mom’s ✡ relatives.”.
Jeffrey Gettleman – South Asia Bureau Chief
Jeffrey Gettleman is the South Asia Bureau Chief for the New York Times. Jeffrey Gettleman is ✡. Gettleman is the son of Judge Robert W. William, United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois.. Judge Gettleman is ✡ and served as an attorney for the ✡ United Fund before being appointed to his judgeship in 1994.. Jeffrey Gettleman’s sister, Lynn Chehab, has also spoken on the radio program hosted by Shalom Klein [95], founder of Founder of ✡ B2B Networking and ✡ Business News.
*SECTION 3: NYT Chief Correspondents*
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@bliss252
Do you remember the point? My point was if you're not going to acknowledge Trump's incompetence, no point having a discussion about Obama; I simply stated my position, I don't know how that point is disputable lol.
This isnt about " denying incompetence" its about media coverage and lies. but why do you care about that? orange man bad after all
Are you going to acknowledge that Trump brought all this shit on himself? Do you think he himself is "fair and balanced". Please. My message to you is that no one with any sense has any sympathy regarding how he's treated. He made his bed he can lie in it. He's not a helpless toddler. Nobody cares except Trumpers.
" its trumps fault everyone in the media are acting like rabid propagandists whos only objective is protection of the narrative and the establishment? how did " trump bring this upon himself" he was a media darling for 20 fuckin years till; he decided to run for president, but by then hes literally hortler
HE set the tone, he can deal with it. Zero sympathy. It's called 'consequences'.
lol yeah sure it is dude
Portraying Trump as the victim is just a VERY convenient (and clearly effective) right wing talking point.
"... 4 year News cycles fair and impartial"
- Strawman. I never said that.
i said trump is slammed by the media and obama had the kiddy glove treatment. you wont acknowledge that because your derangement syndrome only allows you to process " orange man bad"
- Of course media is biased. Common knowledge. But it's mostly in terms of what they choose to highlight or even exaggerate or speculate. If you're dismissing everything reported as "just bias" or all lies, then you're being disingenuous and you've got your head in the sand.
yeah pretending that everyone being extremely left of center is just " everyone's biased" is a joke and a copout
- Trump went to the gutter, and they said "we'll meet you there"... and then Trump played victim. Boo f*kn hoo.
what the hell are you talking about?
- Trump is indeed a cash cow for the media, but it's been a symbiotic relationship. Don't forget, it's the same reason he got elevated to the White House in the first place. So there's that..
What? what the fuck are you talking about? there were FAR more pressing news stories about obama, but they buried the. every other story about trumps two scoops, held his water funny, or spelled shit wrong in a tweet. its fucking nauseating
Again, you dismissing sources wholesale just because you've read/know certain things about them IS a cop out, a fallacy, and yet another convenient talking point.
Same with the "MSM evil" stuff. It's the definition of a biased mindset, and as such, hypocritical and honestly unimpressive.
Yes, because an entire industry isnt possible of being corrupt. because reasons.
It's like me saying because Trump is a pathological liar with zero credibility and I've heard and read things about him, I will never even look at, believe, listen to or read absolutely anything that's presented to me about him regardless of the topic. It would be ridiculous and intellectually dishonest not to consider the information presented, and judge it on it's own merits.
except you dont get to judge anything on its merits, you only judge it through the lens of propaganda. but at the same time claim thats what im doing. almost like some low grade Alinsky shit
- of course I don't 'know' you. This is the internet. You're stating the obvious again, plus it's irrelevant and inconsequential to me.
then stop telling me what my thoughts are? you keep arguing against shit im not saying, and then circling back over and over
You might say you "used to be a liberal or an independent, voted for Obama twice, even Hilary"..makes no difference; "not right wing". Still neither here nor there. I've heard it all before. You're still advancing the right wing agenda. Unwittingly or not.
what the fuck is the " right wing agenda"? not having massive government corruption and globalism stripping my country to nothing while importing millions of foreigners to eat up resources all the while im a fucking racist for saying i didnt ask for this? is that the "right wing agenda???" or are you gonna tell me its about racism and bombing brown people?
No wonder you "love this game", you're scoring yourself non-existent points.
said the guy projecting his non existent point scoring while calling me a right wing trumper
*Mueller report.
(Are you sure you have it? You spelled that wrong).
yes its on my desk, as i closely followed everything since 2015
"The Mueller report also stated if his office 'had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."'
Not exonerated:
what the fuck does this have to do with anything? nothing they said happened happened.... there was no Russian election hacking, there was no Russian conspiracy, everything was a bunch of bullshit.
So you're saying Fox News is more gentle on Obama than the other media outlets are??
no i didnt say that, why do you keep putting words in my mouth? if 99% of the media sucks off obama and the 1% shits on him, does that change the fact that 99% of the media sucks him off?
I'm wrong to deny that there was negative coverage of Trump by Fox News??
there was plenty of negative fox coverage of trump. Fox isnt immune to this, and i fucking hate fox news.
You can safely assume I haven't taken the time to find out who owns what media outlet. You're mistaking me for someone who denies things I have no knowledge of.
This discussion is about actual media portrayal and the effects thereof.
" i dont know"
obviously
"Ownership is irrelevant in that context.
"
you are a naive fool if you actually believe this.
"You know nothing about me..."
Again, I don't need to. I know enough.
except you know nothing. but thanks anyway
Although I can take a stab: you probably hate PC culture (especially in institutions) and disapprove of 'intersectionality', don't like 'feminazis", probably don't believe in institutional racism; possibly listen to Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan and maybe Ben Shapiro; think Obama's economy had "nowhere to go but up" hence deserves no credit; will argue there's nothing racist about the proud boys, think BLM is purely political and are convince
I'm sure I've got at least a couple.
yea to most of it, JP is ok, ben shapiro is a piece of trash, ben " i dont care about the browning of americia" shapiro but i <3 isreal. joe rogan is a waste of time usually, obamas economy was whatever the news media decided at the time. Nothing racist about proud boys, because they are really shitty racists, being a bunch of guys who are brown black and spanish, great racists. BLM is based off of lies adn is 100% political garbage.
"" that Trump effectively denounced white supremacists "many, many times".
""
the fact that you say this is literally blowing my mind. how many times does he need to denounce them? how many is enough?
PS: You've made also made assumptions yourself about me.
stop trying to gaslight me bruh, you have been literally arguing against shit im not saying. the previous paragraph is pretty telling. you talk like you know what im talking about, but you dont know what im talking about
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@bliss252
"If you're not going to acknowledge biased coverage of Trump by the right wing, then don't bother telling me about biased coverage of Obama".
This makes even less sense. " the right wing" is literally fawx news, and a handful of independent sites that are labeled as alt right. literally every other news outlet is left wing.
He was sufficiently trashed on Fox News. I mean look at you all here now lol. The right wing did it's job. He's now the so-called "worst president in US history".
What the hell are you ranting about? fox sucks its always sucked, what else is new?
"..An entire industry is possible of being corrupt" (sic)
-strawman. Never said that. Nice try though.
Ok, Ok. It's not Trump's fault. Nothing is. It's all the big, bad media's fault. Got it.
claims i strawman
immediately strawman's my argument
10/10
HE OPENED HIS BIG FAT MOUTH AND SPEWED NONSENSICAL, DIVISIVE DRIBBLE, VILIFIED EVERYONE INCLUDING THE MEDIA AND IMMIGRANTS AND SPREAD CONSPIRATORIAL NONSENSE ABOUT OBAMA'S BIRTH PLACE ETC.
regurgitated media lies, spin, and fabrications and expects it to be factual
this is the exact thing im talking about dude.
He's a hateful, divisive figure and he's getting hate thrown right back in his face.
So yes, HE set the tone.
let me explain to you how this works
" trump says thing"
media manipulates/cuts up/spins anything trump does or says into X and Y
" tonight in news, trumps a racist because he said X and hes a bigot because Y"
you " TRUMPS A RACIST AND A BIGOT LOOK WHAT HE DID AND SAID"
normal functioning people who see through the bullshit " thats not what happened"
you " HURR DURR TRUMPETERS CANT ADMIT DRUMPH IS TERRIBLE "
and its so fucking tiresome to defend i president i dont even like that much. but you cant rationalize that
- The worst part about arguing with a Trumper is............. Seriously.. it's exhausting repeating myself. Try to connect information presented to you before asking questions.
What the fuck are you talking about here dude? its like a rambling paragraph where you just vent how much you hate the strawman of trump supporters you've built up in your head. nothing you say is remotely conducive to reality
And you accuse me of "circling back over and over", meanwhile you're stuck in first gear.
you havent even started the car, you are just sitting there banging gears and making racecar noises with your mouth. the race has been over for an hour and were trying to get you too stop
Then you bring up that "TDS" rubbish (cringe). The only deranged people are the conspiracy nut jobs on the right that you're happy to be associated with, led by your buddy Alex Jones and the QAnon nutters.
q anon is a larp as far as ive researched but alex jones has unironically been right alot, waiting years for the information to come out usually . but you only care what the talking heads on alphabet news organizations tell you. " orange man bad"
Before you say you say you're not associated, you're all united under the Trump umbrella.* Shudder *
what does this even mean? seriously
I talked about Trump being a cash cow and his mutually beneficial relationship with the media, and your response is about Obama (??). Complete disconnect. You need to have that Obama obsession checked out.
the media creates spin stories and crazy headlines because it makes them money, it has nothing to do with whether or not its accurate. i bring up obama because the media treated him entirely different. and you refuse to see that because i can only assume mild onset TDS
Again, it's *she not he.
does it even really matter? just pretend any time i type he i mean she?
"You judge through your lens of propaganda"
Ok, whatever you say.
At least I actually look at what's presented. You're so deep in and so well trained you dare not look at what you've been told not to look at.
he said as he takes the news as truth even though they have been documented liars since the 80s... but yeah, im the one so deep into it
"Left = FAKE NEWS!" End of story. Like I said, right wing agenda is working like a charm. Be an individual and judge info for yourself ffs. What are you scared of?
im only scared of more endless government authority, and being taxed into oblivion while being forced to live off the state while not being able to do anything i want.
At this point I'm definitely not surprised by the extent of your cluelessness. Time to get out your bubble.
they say while being inside of a bubble they cant even realize they are in
hilarious actually
"It's f*king nauseating"
You're nauseated because of your cognitive dissonance and your deep seated embarrassment for being associated with the Dog-whistler in Chief. You're going to drive yourself insane.
you keep using worse like you were programmed to use them... almost like television " programming" ahs finally realized its namesake... and you cant even possible contemplate the possibility that you are actually wrong and that the whole world is so corrupt that the news is just a tentacle of corruption. nope, must be the drumpf supporters
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@bliss252
By the way, regarding media ownership, I hope you have more than just 'The Murdochs', coz again, that's cheap knowledge and nothing to be smug about.
its like you dont bother to look into anything and can only talk about what others talk about.
Nonsense. Everything I've said is either a response to what you've said or about Trumpers in general.
Its not, and ive been trying to tell you this, but you somehow, cannot comprehend this
"Wtf is right wing agenda, not having massive govt...?"
Yeah, that's cute.
I'm talking about brainwashing you into believing everything coming from the left is evil, and ridiculing you if you dare to even look at or listen to it.
This is not what is happening? and you clearly have lost the plot.
It's a war against PC, feminism, anything progressive, minority groups etc.
PC culture, feminism, and anything progressive are unironically terrible things that have been plaguing the world for years.
" minority groups"
Weird how no one calls whites minorities despite being GLOBAL minorities... almost like its more talking points for a globalist push
So it's really kind of awkward you all pitying and defending him so hard. Lol. That's one of the saddest parts. I hope you're enjoying his latest grift: Donations for the "election defence". Lol. I hope you read the small print. The man is a career conman. If that's who you want to be associate with or defend, best of luck to you.
Real talk? the saddest thing here is you trying so hard to convince me im wrong, while being complealty oblivious to realty
also
donations
anyone who donates to any political anything is an idiot full stop
I asked you if you're saying that Fox is more gentle to Obama than other media outlets are.
You said "stop putting words in my mouth".
This was the exchange I was referring to. Notice the part where you said "yes":
Me:
So Fox News were gentle with Obama and treated him with kid gloves? Ok
You:
compared to every single other media outlet since 2015? yes 100% you can argue that all you want but the evidence is online forever
Awkward.
nothing in the above lines up to the question you ask. comparing obama to trump, when you asked "So Fox News were gentle with Obama and treated him with kid gloves?" it was " compared to the treatment of trump"... its almost like you had a hard time grasping that. awkward
"Wtf does this have to do with anything"
Quoting Mueller has nothing to do with the Mueller report? Ok
" exonerated" means nothing. no guilty verdict or continuance without a finding is also " not exonerated" what does this word game have to do with anything?
"Plenty of negative coverage of Trump on Fox. Jeez, you're really determined to defend this man aren't you.. Nice and convenient for the narrative you've got going there.
oh cool you are ignoring fox news for the last 4 years totally not doing anything they can to dump on trump while not losing their audience, but also entirely ignore the very recent treatment but thats ok, i wouldnt expect consistency from anyone arguing on youtube
Sure Trump denounced white supremacy "many many times". The fact you don't understand what the outrage is about is definitive proof that you're not the critical thinker that you think you are. To put it simply, you don't understand nuance and context and refuse to believe or process what you're observing. Typical Trumper traits.
What the hell are you even talking about? the news calls him a racist, he says hes not a racist. hes said to disavow X groups, he disavows them. its never enough and its always " hes just lying, hes secretly a racist"
you keep talking about how hard im " defending trump" but ignore how hard to are at trying to convince me that hes X while explicitly stating he isnt. you claim im sufferings from cognitive dissonance, yet if i pulled up a completion video of trump saying the exact things, you will simply dismiss it and go right back to calling him a racist bigot... like how are you supposed to have a conversation with a person who acts like that?
Let me guess, you think all the original members magically disappeared or changed their attitudes. Laughable. You really are gullible af.
What does this have to do with anything said. why do you even care so much about a group of twats anyway? do have a problem with white people?
Me: I know enough about you.
You: except you know nothing about me.
Me: I'll take a stab. * Gives you a list *
You: Yeah that's mostly true
i mean other than taking a list of facts, throwing them in with a of lies, then list them as a list of lies i believe, while only some of them are lies. its strange
You keep calling me a trumper, yet ive told you i dont even like him that much. im just sick of watching this level of disgusting discourse take place.
"You don't know what I'm talking about"
Nah, you're pretty transparent.
sure i am, im the color of straw
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Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof on application to any common law Court of record in any one of the States wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least, and making proof to the satisfaction of such Court that he is a person of good character, and taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by law to support the Constitution of the United States, which Oath or Affirmation such Court shall administer, and the Clerk of such Court shall record such Application, and the proceedings thereon; and thereupon such person shall be considered as a Citizen of the United States. And the children of such person so naturalized, dwelling within the United States, being under the age of twenty one years at the time of such naturalization, shall also be considered as citizens of the United States. And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States
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Jackson Hughes
"If it's a matter of overrepresentation than do you we need Affirmative Action for Mr Whitely?"
Yeah, or we could talk about the nepotism and corruption that comes from it.... oh never mind, thats a conspiracy... oh wait, remember how conspiracy is noun, plural con·spir·a·cies.
the act of conspiring.
an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
therefore, if a system exists to nepotistically raise up some people over others, would mean that in it self is a conspiracy i guess that means calling something a conspiracy is pretty much not a way to dismiss something...
"It wasn't a matter of overrepresentation, you and others of your ilk think this is a planned plot, a conspiracy by a certain group."
It literally is. they promote themselves, enact movements, and legislation that benefits them and their allies (spoilers, non Js are in on it too), and they do it in front of our faces constantly...
"I gave more than enough examples to show that no matter the group, the outcome is the same."
What? you did no such thing.
"Take CNN, it was started by Ted Turner, and it had different owners over the years, but it was always a mouthpiece for the liberals. So all the evidence shows there is no plot by one group."
yeah ok buddy, its just all the major media companies, most of hollywood, and a large portion of the us government
"Yes, I proved you wrong and you can't even say. Yes, I was wrong. That's a reflection on your character."
Hello kettle, im pot
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Jackson Hughes
"In addition to the positive Jewish role models leading the way to a better future I listed above"
LOL ben " i dont care about the browning of america" shapiro, and prager U are your examples? lol I went ahead and wrote an update for one of your lists.
Open Borders:
Biden
All the Jews Biden has tapped for top roles in his new administration
Times of isreal
Immigration Act of 2007
Immigration Act of 1986
neither of those really matter much considering the act of 1965 i mentioned earlier, more like pouring gas on a fire someone else lit... ALSO, , your entire rebuttal is " here are people not in the tribe doing things you claim tribe do" right, i didnt say they were the only ones doin git. just that they had an over representation of it... its like you are willfully deceitful... interesting tactic
"Only the Trump Administration worked for Border Control. And who was in charge?
Stephen Miller Close border, eliminate federal funds to Sanctuary cities, built wall, stop travel from countries with terror activities."
and trump kissed the wall, and did nothing to stop election nonsense... he is not on my side, he is just controlled opposition
"No wonder you bring up a nobody like Spectre. You have nothing. She is obscure and only talked about multiculturalism. And she didn't mean W, she was referring to Mr Abul. "
nonsense
"See what happens when you live in conspiracy world? You stop caring about the facts"
you really are a joke my dude
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@nickwilliamson6726
this is actually getting really painful my guy
lets walk back a few comments and spoon feed you the entire way
ya know, it sure sounds alot like how js talk about the g word that if i say, i get my comment instantly deleted... funny, you can write an entire paragraph about one group, but when someone tries to talk about another, they are silenced
Nick Williamson
24 minutes ago
" I've had butt loads of comments deleted. Don't write comments for a while. They get manually reviewed. Especially when you go on a leftist channel and contradict anything they say."
Nick Williamson
18 minutes ago
" and who's js and what's the g word? I honestly don't know what you're talking about in the beginning of your comment there"
ootmaster1
18 minutes ago
@Nick Williamson go ahead, why dont you try it...
definition
Jish name for a non-Jish person.
"manual review"
laughable nonsense, if you think that you are more naïve than i thought
14 seconds, isnt time for " manual review"
ootmaster1
11 minutes ago
@Nick Williamson "and who's js and what's the g word?"
you must be REALLY new here
starts with J
rhymes with pew
starts with G
ends with -im
rhymes with joy
i literally have to play these word games to get the point across because censorship is so rampant here
Nick Williamson
10 minutes ago
@ootmaster1 was my comment reported? I don't think so. So obviously they wouldn't have manually reviewed it.
What the actual fck does this have to do with the conversation? i was answering a question, and to answer it i need to be cryptic because of YT censorship ... and here we are, with you not understanding whats going on even though its all written right in front of you
"And me pointing out that nothing in my previous comment pointing out what leftists have said about people like me seems to have sunk in with you..
what are you talking about
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"nation can typically be made up of people of different ethnicities."
Uhhhhhh no?
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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@StofStuiver what? originally the US was 99% white as they were all from European origins...
You dont seem to understand.... if there are more people who take more than they pay into the system, it collapses... when you need to take more and more and more from those who can produce, they will be able to get less and less... i lose a third of my income every week.. i see none of it. i also pay taxes on the fuel i spend to go to work, i pay taxes on the food i eat to live, i pay taxes on the water i drink and bathe in, i pay taxes on the car i drive to work as well as taxes on all the fees, insurance, and taxes thereof that the state demands i pay. i pay taxes on the home i live in, i pay taxes on the land its on, i pay taxes on the utility bills, i even pay taxes when i die...
What do i get out of it?
endless foreign wars
endless immigration
stagnant and lowering wages
aotumation
poor roads
poor education
poor infrastructure
more and more welfare...
I dont want to pay more and i dont want more programs.... if they cant make it work after taking a third of most peoples income ( those who actually make enough to be taxes that is) then i dont want it...
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@whatdafarkenhell7110
"Look, if you think everyone is part of the NWO you are the fool that does not have a brain cell to use."
Thanks, thats not what i said, neat strawman
"There is a uniparty, Trump was a populist who defeated the uniparty and improved the GOP doing so, bringing in new people that stood and stand for the US instead of big multinational businesses."
He literally was a relief valve for the growing discontent in the nation... no wall, no one went to jail, immigration never stopped.. .he hardly got anything done. He played his role
"Sorry that you believe the existance of one thing means every little stupid thing that rolls around lonely in your head is true as well."
Strawman
"The fact that you can't even string together more than a few words or even answer a simple question is all the proof we need that you are the child that needs to sit down and let the adults talk."
ADhom
"Finally where did I use the word "proofs", you were stupid enough to quote a single word and it was not one I ever use (because it is badly spelt to start with) "
you know those are indicative of air quotes and your "gotcha" is just blowing up in your face
"You know what, if your one word quote is incorrect, that is all the evidence required to convince a moderately intelligent human that they are talking to a peron with the intelligence of a door knob."
ADhom
so do we have to wait for you to grow up to join the conversation:?
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@inotterwords6115 tell you what. how about we meet somewhere in the middle? we return to previous immigration law. Pre 1965 is better than anything we have now...
lets do some math though
1900-1914 891,806
1915-1919 234,536
1920-1930 412,474
lets expand your "golden age" because these are the stats i saw handy.
thats 1.5million over the course of 30 years, or 51,000 a year
we are currently taking in 800,000 per year, and thats just legals
lets stop pretending that current immigration is anything like previous eras of immigration
"but muh per capita immigration"
when you exponentially grow the population size, you exponentially grow the possible per capita limit of immigrants.
"the foreign born population of the U.S."
Is a misleading broken statistic... a foreigner who just shows up and becomes a citizen pops out a kid, that kid is not a foreign born population statistic... yet in every meaningful way, IS foreign born...
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@jonatand2045
"That's the thing, people can't always find those more affordable places."
the affordable places are disappearing, what does that have to do with previous comments?
"What you want requires forbidding others from building, so it inevitably relates to supply."
What i want, is to NOT BE FORCED TO LIVE IN A CITY. I do not want to live 3 feet from my neighbor, i want to have a yard, i want the woods to separate me from a neighbor. What you are proposing, ruins that for me, and anyone else who wants that...
"If you actually support such limits, then your complaint is out of touch. If not, it is a sad side effect, in part due to demand not being met. "
You dont know what you are talking about
"You show your xenophobic fear of replacement, but that is irrelevant"
Its irrelevant? why? because you dont care it happens? well news flash, ethnics displacement is UN chartered G(word). euro people deserve to continue to exist in Euro nations
"The point is that whether they are immigrants or natives demand must be met."
And the demand would be less, without a million + persons coming in every year,. you keep ignoring that like it has no effect...
"If they should be let in or not is another can of worms, one you deflect to."
The answer is no. they should not be let in. I dont know why this is a complex thing. the entire world does not deserve the right to live in my nation. f off with that globalist garbage
"People leave California due to taxes and cost of living."
Aww gee i wonder what caused that? could it be mass immigration, and terrible policy supported by the inhabitants?
"How is building jumping boat? A better analogy would be not using the water pump because it is loud. Even if the supposed hole is plugged, that pump will have to be used."
No buddy, you said you want to help solve homelessness, and get the cost of living down. stopping mass immigration is going to do that. but you refuse to even acknowledge it as being part of the problem. " just build more" no f off
"I don't think infinite growth is possible, just that the opportunities there are shouldn't be blocked."
Why the fk does the entire world get to decide what goes on in my nation? why the f do you keep pushing globalist mindsets? F off
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@ubuntuposix
"The right "plays this clip" from the moment when the kid is running, falling, and shooting those which attack him.
"
Uh thanks for your BS framing, but it isnt " the right" showing " clips" theres multiple videos of multiple angles showing this. BTW when he was on the ground in the middle of the street? was the second encounter... but you would know that if you watched literally anyone who showed the full video
BUT
the people are saying "he shot someone (of us)", "he's the shooter".
So people inciting a mob is a good thing?
-this makes you want to stop him.
no
-you can see the police up the street ahead, so it would be dumb to shoot him. (and they didn't shoot at him)
but prior to that:
- he was running away because he shot someone (the guy throwing the plastic bag at him)
plastic bag... go ahead and throw an empty plastic bag and see how far it goes? there was something in it... a brick? a bottle of cement? a glass bottle? who knows, maybe dont throw things at people who are armed, and if you DO throw something at them in an aggressive manner, defiantly dont try and take their gun...
- prior to that you can see him pissing people off (provoking them)
where?
-even prior to that he wasn't from the state (he got there, him being an anti BLM, - he had a blue lives matter insignia)
So supporting police is a bad thing? so being against a marxist organisation that goes around rioting looting and burning cities down is a bad thing? cmon man
-even prior to that, he wasn't born long enough to carry a gun and be a wannabe police-officer.
false, open carry long rifles 16+ in the state.stop listening to BS
(putting aside his illegal presence there after curfew, cause everyone was violating it)
Yeah lets ignore that he had permission from a business owner to stand guard at their business because he didnt want it burned down? you know, by the mob of people who attacked kyle? like the dumpster they set on fire? like the car windows they smashed?
Can you see his fault in any of this?
No not at all
Imagine i'm going to a Trump rally, with a gun, and start burning an american flag.
-I'll piss people off, some may want to hit me,
-i shoot him, then run away, fall, shoot those who come after me
Is all that a simple case of "self defense" to you?
yes, it is self defense... if someone tries disarm you and attack you you can shoot them. why is this a hard concept for you? why do you have to keep muddying the waters?
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Nationalism was never about race
Uhhh
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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@0Doves0
"I love how you deny facts and twist what I'm saying"
Nope, didnt deny anything, just pointed out that comparing islam and Christianity is a joke
"Islam and Christianity do have ugly records when it comes to converting people point blank"
Sure, but claiming that they were similar, or that one isnt infinitely worse than the other, or pointing out that only one of them is still that way, comparing them is a joke
"Do you realize that is what black Israelites want?"
something something anti-Semitism
Firstly, "my last point had nothing to do with genetic differences but instead modern luxuries getting rid of biological set backs."
except they literally dont, and many still exist. but ok
Secondly, did I not say that Africa was the most genetically diverse continent on this planet?
Secondly, Africa being the most diverse continent is a copy and paste talking point?
???
"That would imply that genetic differences aren't just skin color."
Genetic differences are more than just skin color
Do they not teach interpreting skills at school anymore or are you just illiterate?
Oh im illiterate now? lol
"You are the reason why minorities vote majority democrat despite being traditionally conservative."
Laughably false, but please, your mass of bs was a fun read...
Good day sir. This is my last comment. As of now I am drained of this convo and was brutally reminded of how toxic politics can be. I no longer want to waste energy on this.
You are pretty much the only toxic one here familam, but have fun being mentally exhausted from comments on youtube. XD
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@0Doves0 "natural diversity"
good thing we wont have that very much longer with the way things are going
"I'm sorry but do you think all non-white people think the same and can relate to each other? Do you think the same is for white people?"
Averages exist, statistical realities exist, and genetics exist. No not everyone will be the same, but most of everyone is mostly the same, thats how averages work...
"Thinking that people can solely identify with each other if they're the same race is ludicrous."
Same with thinking it has nothing to do with anything and is a moot characteristic
"People are products of their environment. The mentality and culture they identify with is based on how they're raised, not because of their race"
So when, on average, differing groups act different, what does this end up meaning? This is my point
" If the whole world was one race, people would still find a reason to hold animosity for one another."
Well thats the game plan from the globalist elites, create a one world people ruled under a one world government with no culture or heritage to rally behind, they are all empty cogs in a global machine
"But even then, this racial tribalism is something that most Americans do not live with"
Depends on your definition of most Americans in group preference exists, but its not allowed for yite people for some reason.
"You watch the news and think that's all of reality, literally playing into the media's game."
Good joke. Haven't watched the news years bud. Again, what part of " personal experience" are you not understanding?
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Tristan Verheecke Yeah man its clear you are SUPER mad
you can pretend that you know what you are talking about, but i DID google that study
We report a meta-analysis of twin correlations and reported variance components for 17,804 traits from 2,748 publications including 14,558,903 partly dependent twin pairs, virtually all published twin studies of complex traits. Estimates of heritability cluster strongly within functional domains, and across all traits the reported heritability is 49%*. For a majority *(69%) of traits, the observed twin correlations are consistent with a simple and parsimonious model where twin resemblance is solely due to additive genetic variation. The data are inconsistent with substantial influences from shared environment or non-additive genetic variation.
hey, if you are into medical papers, and studies, why dont you look into ones discussing IQ and aggressive behavior?
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Tristan Verheecke
"Amazing that you can't understand my argument at all!"
Because you havent made one my guy. I dont know what you think you are doing, but you might need some extra help
"I'm right on point, actually. You just have to think harder!"
No, you still dont seem to be understanding what im talking about, nor what im trying to ask you.
"the definition of what a race is, is extremely unstable"
SO what? there are 4 major racial groups. i cant name them, because it flags my comment for auto deletion
"I've seen a promotional video from the US army from 50 years ago where they describe the English as being a race."
Well separate nationalities are a thing. and dog breeds are a thing... Are all dogs dogs? yes, are all dogs the same? no
"It's as random as can be"
I dont think you understand what " random:" means my guy
"Just as random as saying that we should categorize "Sickle Cell disease" as being of a certain race"
Wow its like you willfully didnt understand my point. If were all the same, why would disease affect some differently than others? it literally is just proving my point that were different. you are apparently too lost to figure that out... dont worry, im here to help
"Like, no, it's inheritable, so you shouldn't check the race of the person but the person's parents, grandparents and close family."
Its almost like you dont want to understand
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Take the vaccine, or else you are anti-semitic towards elves!!!!
It's the plan of the elves!
1. CDC director, Rochelle P. Walensky is an elf
2. CDC Deputy Director, Anne Schuchat, is an elf
3. CDC Chief of staff, Sherri A. Berger, is an elf
4. CDC Chief Medical Officer, Mitchell Wolfe, is an elf
5. CDC Director, Washington Office, Jeff Reczek,is an elf
6. COVID Czar, Jeff Zients, is an elf
7. COVID Senior Advisor, Andy Slavitt, is an elf
8. HHS Ass. Secretary, Rachel Levine, is a dude and a elf
9. Pfzer’s CEO is an elf
10. Moderna’s vaccine created by a elf
11. Johnson & Johnson CEO is a elf
12. Teva is an Israel pharmaceutical company with a Elfish CEO
13. Regeneron Pharma CEO is a elf
14. AstraZeneca’s CEO was to take over as CEO of Israel’s Teva Pharmaceuticval which means he’s an elf
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@_Iscream you know what? the fact that you added your " significant" qualifier in there means even if i DID show you links, you would deny what i said
by the way i just googled
"chinese spy arrested in US"
and there were plenty of links...
" and that the US actually has black ops, that is"
What do you want me to do? cant show you proof of things not made public yet. i can however tell you that there have been countless " conspiracies" like operation mocking bird, operation Northwoods, the Tuskegee experiment. you know, conspiracies that turned out to be true..
now you can pretend that the US doesnt have secret off the record ops, but that would just be foolishly naive because even wikipedia has an article on it...
A black operation or black op is a covert or clandestine operation by a government agency, a military unit or a paramilitary organization; it can include activities by private companies or groups. Key features of a black operation are that it is secret and it is not attributable to the organization carrying it out.
A single such activity may be called a black bag operation; that term is primarily used for covert or clandestine surreptitious entries into structures to obtain information for human intelligence operations. Such operations are known to have been carried out by the FBI, CIA, KGB, Mossad, MI6, ASIS, COMANF, DGSE, AISE, CNI, MSS, R&AW, DGFI, SVR, FSB and the intelligence services of other nations.
The main difference between a black operation and one that is merely secret is that a black operation involves a significant degree of deception, to conceal who is behind it or to make it appear that some other entity is responsible (e.g. false flag operations
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@themurmeli88
"you are either impplying that people had artificially fertilized the eggs that they were able to hatch, which is false"
No
For an egg to become fertilized, a hen and rooster must mate prior to the formation and laying of the egg
this means that it was fertilized at some point between laying and sending to the store. you can pretend this isnt reality but it is
"Or you are avoiding the obvious issue, that if one can simpply hatch a regular grocery store egg"
it literally can only happen if its been fertilized, and by the very nature of the industry it is exceedingly rare...
"you have no way of knowing if they are fertilized or not"
except you have the reasonable assumption that 99.999% of the time its unfertilized... your point is falling apart
"and thus giving the ok to violate your earlier point of fertilized eggs being different from non fertilized on moral grounds."
wtf are you talking about? fertilized and unfertilized are still different... how are you conflating these?
"Or you were actually unble to make the logical link between me stating that people have been able to hatch grocery store eggs, and your own point of "but only fertiziled eggs can hatch"."
it can literally only hatch if its been fertilized dude why is this complicated for you
"Or you did not realize that my initial point was to question your assertion, that eating fertilized eggs is morally wrong, while eating non-fertilized i morally right."
Morals of eating for sustenance arent the same as morals of ending lives for convivence sake, but please conflate childbirth to the meat industry some more, its totally honest
"I hope this is explanation is clear enough, if you were actually confused, and not just approaching this in bad faith.
ironic considering everything ive seen in this comment section shows me you arent here in good faith, but i digress
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@arturovasquez5510
people facilitate immigration to make money out of it not to destroy the nation,
Ask soros how destroying a nation can be profitable and you can understand the migration is going to do long lasting damage
immigration is and always has been a net positive to the economy,
No, its been a net positive for large corporations, multinationals, banks, and governments.... this is a country, not an economic zone, fuck the GDP and fuck your " net positive for the economy" talking point bullshit
no economic theory has disputed that fact, and I’m an economics major so before you spew bullshit take that into consideration.
I dont care about the GDP of the nation when it treats its citizens like easily replaceable worker units for the almighty dollar.
If you want to shoot immigrant you have to also agree with violating human rights.
How is self defense violating human rights? I take an invasion of my home to be an actionable offense with intent. Is the robber who is breaking into someones house, who is then shot dead, is that a violation of human rights? no its not
The only moral theory that could support the violation of human rights is either moral nihilism or utilitarianism, I doubt you are a moral nihilist because you wouldn’t care whether there is immigration or not, so I will assume you are a utilitarian, which means that you believe the end justifies the means,
What is this bullshit? "ends justify the means" how is refusing to let your nation become overrun by foreigners and " ends justify the means" position?
but I already told you that immigration is a net positive to the economy, even ilegal immigration, the studies show that illegal immigrants commit less crime than the native born citizen, so shooting immigrants would hurt the economy and be immoral
I dont give a shit.... Stagnant wages from a never ending supply of low skill workers, reaching into medium skill as well as importing high skill workers, rising costs of healthcare because of the many many illegals who use services and then they need to be paid for. " immigrants commit less crime" is a bullshit talking point almost as bad as " illegals pay taxes". Illegal entry is a crime, stealing SS numbers for work is a crime...
Defending the nation of my ancestors is not immoral
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@carissstewart3211
Racism/Identity politics is based on little more than perception.
Its not, and you not seeing this further exacerbates the problem. In group preference is human nature, but its twisted into " racism" when it comes to whites. Not even getting into the differences between groups, that would take too long
Take for example, German immigrants to America. At first German speakers congregated into enclaves - such as Germantown, PA. They faced some discrimination - the (along with Dutch and Scandinavians) were derisivedly called "squareheads." The Know Nothing Party, in particular, scorned and hated German Catholics, a fact which Democrats even then took advantage of.
As a result of the two World Wars, German-Americans were encouraged to abandon their unique ethnic identities. They assimilated entirely into the dominant culture. So much so, they we typically imagine hot dogs and hamburgers as quintessentially "American foods."
So what? are german immigrants the same as millions and millions of south Americans? do we still have non stop german immigration? of course not
Amazing, foods are so wonderful. I guess it has less to do with the fact that Germans dutch, italians, english etc etc, are easier to assimilate into each other because they are closer related than other groups?
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@RaquelSantos-hj1mq LOL he just reads cable news online articles, rambles a bit, tells us hes from Chicago, hes half asian, and he was at occupy wallstreet one time, then he makes some back and forth statements, and never takes a stance on anything, then shills his channel that he says hes afraid of it getting deleted, even though he regularly is pushed through recommended
wow so useful, glad i watched for 27 minutes, when it probably takes 3 to read the article, that is if he even bothered to list the source...
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@ronin4160 nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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@Caleb-en5bo
"They have left you alone, they just mind their own business and do more good than most."
Buddy, the isreal lobby, dual citizens in government, and foreign aid despite a horrible relationship for literal decades proves this wrong...
"Im not really defending them, just offending people that are obsessed with them and lie about them like you do."
I have yet to lie, and here you are defending them.... strange
"The only research you do is lazer focused on them being bad, you dont take anything into context and if anyone that does something wrong has a large nose or curly hair you just assume they are a Jew and nothing, not even a DNA test, can shake your dogmatic faith that they are Jewish."
Literal nonsense , thus illuminating to me you have ZERO functional idea what you are talking about... carry on
"If I "did research" on the bad things you did then you would start looking like a monster, it wouldnt matter if you saved 1 million orphans at great risk to yourself because I would only be "researching" the bad things you did. Thats the only reason you hate Jews."
this is such a disappointing attempt at a gotcha. you are defending them SO hard
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@iumasz6088 nationalism is ethnic patriotism... Its in the name...
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
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@iumasz6088 "Well first of all i am not sure why you think of me as some left wing open borders activist, I advocate for controlled migration, lower amounts coming to make integration easier and higher standards for people coming here, they should learn the language and respect the culture and be a contributing member of society."
Well i dont think you are an open borders leftist, im pointing out that even with controlled immigration, its still a massive problem. Integration at this point is seen as a negative, and long term doesnt work, as groups self segregate. which leads into the question i asked. and no, japan would cease to be japanese, because indians can continue to immigrate because there are far more existing. Leading to if whites stop being the majorities in their respective countries, they stop being those countries.....
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@iumasz6088
"the standards that should be required are that the migrants should know the language respect the native culture, and this is the important part, agree with our national values, of freedom, liberty, individualism, democracy and secularism."
And when they dont? then what? When they dont speak the language, dont care for our history, care not for our freedoms, and vote for the same trash they had before they left? what do we do about that? what do we do when they tribe up, and vote as a bloc against the interests of the native founders? what happens when the population that made the country si gone?
"I don't care what food they are eating or god they worship privately (in a way that doesn't infringe the rights of others) because that doesn't matter, they, their own individuals can chose what to do with themselves."
And when they chose to collectivize in their own groups? what then? are you gonna stop them?
This how it was before the 2000s before people like Blair, these where the standards back then. And back then there where no problems with sub groups, because now we don't expect these things from migrants"
it was bad then too, just not AS bad
"Many people coming here don't believe in secularism, don't believe in individualism, as they think as a racial/religious collective"
Because this is the natural state for human tribes, and pretending it isnt is the exact problem we are having right now.
"This is why these sub-groups are forming,"
No, they form because that is the natural action of social creatures...
"Also I've said "to awnser that question, no" and I've said that it won't be ethically or culturally if they don't embrace Japanese values. I already answered no."
there isnt a qualifier... its just flat out no...
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@iumasz6088
"well the idea is that we won't let in these kind of people in the first place, we will select individuals who are not collectivist, my probably selecting better educated individuals, they are more likely to be individualists than collectivists."
We already have them here, and they have been pouring in for decades. they can now vote, and their children are citizens
"selecting individualist individuals and keeping numbers coming in low would reduce the chance of that happening"
Too late, its already happened. Now what?
"when their populations where lower there is less of a chance that they will collectivize, especially if we don't pick collectivist individuals in the first place."
Spoiler, all peoples collectivize. its how most living creatures exist...
"it was bad then too, just not AS bad"
how bad was it?
Well it went from replacing whites in white nations, and certain groups were doing certain things to other certain groups children, all the way back into the 80s and no one did anything about it. its worse now
"many people coming here think this but not everyone does, we just need to get those individuals who aren't tribalistic."
You arent even grasping the concept... ALL humans are INHERINTLY tribalistic. this is manifested in self selection and in group preference.
"the reason why this is happening now to such a extent is because a lack of expectation for them to embrace our values and due to such high amounts of already collectivist."
Uhhh what? " fighting nature because esoteric values not shared by all peoples?"
"This is a hypothetical scenario, if very Indian person who moved to japan was Japanese in every way except genetically, have the same behaviors customs and beliefs of a Japanese person, will it not be culturally Japanese."
They wont, japan will become more indian
"Sure it won't be ethnically, and if that is what you are arguing then you would be right, what about culturally?"
culturally it would become indian, and eventually " japan" would only exist on paper and in history books... just like every other group that gets displaced in their homelands.......
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@iumasz6088
"Well putting brakes on migration is step of of solving the issue from then on we can decide what to do, i think it is possible to integrate eventually, just like the immigrants in america did after a decade or two"
Dont forget ending visa work, and the entire web of importing labor. Then we can repatriate. Doing something about anchor babies would be nice too...
"All humans group up in some way, but what we've got to do is so those people coming in associate with our group more than they do theirs, and reject values incompatible with ours , but compatible ones can stay."
This is meaningless in practice...
"are you talking about grooming gangs? can you link me a source about them or some more information"
I mean both this channel and Carls channel have talked about them exhaustively.. not to mention the continued displacement of European peoples in their very homelands... you know that Ws are a global minority right? and they are all simultaneously becoming minorities in their homelands all over the world right? and even stopping immigration isnt going to stop the ones already here from growing in number... This ends pretty badly
"in group preference? well certian groups of people, whites in this case, on average have a neutral in-group out-group perference, so it is possible for people to not be tribalistic
Or, decades of " were all the same" and " were all a melting pot let everyone in" has had a negative effect on the psychology of an entire group of people? maybe that is a contributing factor, because I certainly dont have " neutral" in group/out group preference... What other group of people do you see bowing in the streets and committing acts of such self degradation in their manifested guilt? This is being done intentionally, and is the early stages of mayocide
"i've litterally stated that in every cultural aspect those indians would be japanese, the only differential factor would their skin colour and genetics, in this case they would be culturally Japanese because they ascribe to japanese culture. do you know what i mean by culture?"
You seem to think culture and genetics arent linked....
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@iumasz6088
"not sure about visas, as they usually bring in high skilled jobs with educated workers"
No, they really dont... Especially h1b visas. also, why are we importing foreigners to compete with high paying jobs for natives, thus suppressing wages?
"but we definitely don't need low skill low educated working class of the 3rd world coming here, they just saturate the labour market"
And the same thing is done to the middle and upper classes with visas....
"there are plenty of migrants that associate with our national values and don't favour their un-secular and tribalistic ones"
this is a numbers game, and the outliers arent the majorities
"carl talked about gromming gangs now, there was nothing about gromming gangs in the 1980s, you said that things where also bad before the 2000s and I thought you where talking about grooming gangs"
Its been going on for decades, Watching the video's from carl alone there were studies that touched on this happening before 2000's, just in smaller numbers and eclipse by other scandals involving children
"i also find strange you using Carl as a example, because Carl's and probably the lotus eaters view on migration is also based around civic nationalism like mine"
Yeah, hes a civcvk and civic nationalism doesnt work, but that doesnt mean he is wrong about everything... i find it starnge you even make this point
"not really, migrant birth rates decrease over generations"
Not always, first off, secondly, how would that change the explosion of births from the first few generations?
And the numbers are still large, and immigration is still ongoing, and you still think this is gonna be fine
"how is having a neutral in group preference negative?
Why would having a neutral stance be beneficial?
"not judging someone based on their race and on their character?"
Judging people by the content of their character is racist in the context that discussing racial differences is verboten in current year
"yes i do think culture and genetics aren't inherently linked"
Well, you would be wrong
"anyone can adopt a certain culture"
But they will never BE that culture
"there are plenty of other immigrants that adopt their immigrating countries culture, culture is an environmental factor, that is based on experiences, it has very little to do with genetics"
Its like you cant grasp what im talking about. What do you think " environmental factors" do to animal species over time? They are changed genetically. when they are moved to a different environment, those differences are still there. This applies to cultures. this is why groups are so different
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@iumasz6088
"fair enough, we may not need workers in general these days
And this is exclusively to the benefit of large corporations and government agencies. to the determent of the US citizen and funding massive wealth transfers out of the country
"yeah sure, but whats stopping us from just getting in the outliers in, they exist right?"
Yeah, but its a candy in a bowl situation. only a handful of candies are good, all the others are going to make you sick, and apparently the only way we can let people in is by the handful. We dont owe the whole world admission to the nation, so i fail to see why you would bend over backwards for more immigration.
:but what are the per captia rates
Look, for a problem many pretend dont exist, data about it is going to be hard to point to. you wan watch through lotus or sargons video archives and look at ones involving children being trafficked.
"the earliest ones where from the 2000s, and also the problem is likely a lot worse because nothing is done
Well yeah, because most people wont even accept it as a possibility unless you show them irrefutable proof, and you cant really get that when this problem is so widespread and hushed. Governments have been involved in human trafficking for many many years.... check out the finders cult. I wouldnt be surprised that this train of action has been going and going since the 70s. So you have decades of problems, then you import a group of people, and that problem exploded
"yes, but those are exceptions, on average the birth rates become the same as the nation"
This is meaningless if in that timeframe W people are outbred to a further degree who cares if the birth rates normalize to average after a few generations when it just means W people are a tinier and tinier fraction of the world population, while the whole world pours into W countries without stopping...
"well it won't but it won't cause migrants to overtake the native population over a course of generations, it would cause a medium term 1 generation increase, then it would go into the normal rates."
yes, yes it would, you clearly arent paying attention to anything, and are using isolated single datapoints to justify the inmage of whats hapening in your head. " wont outnumber native populations" except they already are dude,
"well why won't it? what would it change, sometimes not taking things like race and national origin into account are useful, it would stop you not taking in someone based on merit"
First off , this behavior would lead to its extinction in nature.... funny, thats whats going on right now anyway... " judging people on the merits of their actions" is just racist when you actually do it... otherwise stereotypes wouldnt exist, and a tiny fraction of the population is doing over half of all violent crime... spoiler, groups of people are different and not all compatible.
"this is a weird point, your saying you agree with the wokeists?"
"Wokist" is the most infuriating and dumb terms to describe anything, because it 100% misses the point. You seem to think anything involving race realism is " wokeist" and " the democrats the real racists" and other BS garbage talking points while obfuscating the actual issues here... We spend billions of dollars, endless man hours, endless programs, and certain groups of people still commit crime, still do drugs, and are still menaces to society. pointing out these behaviors is racist, because only certain groups seem to be doin these actions... again, judging people on the merits of their actions is also racist... but you call that wokeist while completely missing the overarching narrative is behind the "wokists" you call them You are letting leftists dictate the realm of your discussions by giving anything racial to them. you lose before you even start and you cant see that
"Elaborate, this is the point i never understood about ethno-nationalists/race-existentialists, if you acknowledge that there are exceptions as you've said there are "outliers" then how can race/genetics be a factor if they have the same race, but their culture is different, wouldn't that, going by the scientific method, suggest another factor being involved?"
What are you talking about? A cat born in a stable doesnt make them a horse. "how can race/genetics be a factor if they have the same race, but their culture is different, " Where is this even happening?
"What you've said that there can be outliers to migrants associating with national values which implies that acknowledge that migrants can adopt the native culture. Your statements seem contradictory."
No, your lack of understating seems to be the issue here... You throw a somalian into an irish and dtch city, he may learn to adopt teir culture, but he will never be OF that culture...
Its like you cant grasp what im talking about. What do you think " environmental factors" do to animal species over time? They are changed genetically. when they are moved to a different environment, those differences are still there. This applies to cultures. this is why groups are so different
"homo sapien groups have only separated in the last 100,000 years, not that long of a time relative to evolution"
Bullshit. 100% bllsht. yo can LITERALLY SEE DIFFERENCES.... cmon dde
"is there any evidence to suggest that they are different neurologically?"
Yes
"the fact that they can embrace other cultures in the first place seems to rule that out as a factor"
How, there is ZERO logical reasoning for you to assert this whatsoever...
"as if there was something inherent to race, then won't this be the case over all members of the race?"
Yes, this is how tribes work, and how every animal in nature has existed for the entirety of living earth..
"the fact that they can embrace our culture still means that we shouldn't use race as the basis for selection even if it was true."
How not??? if you keep importing replacements than the original will not stay the same. what part of that is so hard for you to grasp? a dog calling itself a cat, eating cat food, sing a litter box, and chasing mice is STILL NOT A CAT
"have you considered that environment might have affected culture, since behaviors (cultures) are shaped by experiences (environment) then ofcourse groups in a different environment would have a different culture, because they based their behaviors of the different experiences they encountered in their environments, so they interpret the world, which is different to them, differently."
LOL thank you for describing the mechanism of evolution without a hint of self awareness. You realize that you are proving my point right? that the environment that causes visual differences between peoples also has an effect on mental, physiological, and emotional parts of said group too.
The natural order has made us separate and uniquely. if we were all meant to live together, we would have ended up the same no matter where we went.
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@iumasz6088
???. except we do know how we can tell the difference, we have citizenship tests (which could be made more difficult), and other paper work like employment and education certificates and criminal records which we can use to vet. it isn't that impractical as you think it is.
None of what you just described solves anything. people work pay taxes, own homes, and live in communities, and dont even speak english, inside the US, and in the the rest of europe you have islamification. They can pass all the arbitrary criteria that you can throw at it, and still doesnt address the core issue of some groups being incompatible.
"I am talking about how come, if their racial biology is the factor that decides their culture then howcome can some members of the same race adopt a culture and some can't if culture was inherent to race you would expect every single member of that race to not be or be able to ascribe to a certain culture."
I just explained that and you didnt understand it apparently. The dog can act like a cat, eat like a cat, talk like a cat, but will still be a dog. To the effect that, even if they adopt the culture, they will always be adopters of the culture, and not born of the culture...
"wait what? you literally say that they can adopt the culture, if you adopt a culture you are of that culture"
No
"if you join a gaming community, for example, you are of that culture of that gaming community"
This has very little bearing on the discussion as hobbys are far far different than cultural heritage
"Culture is not ethnicity, i think you are getting ethnicity mixed up with culture,"
No, YOU are not grasping that the genetic reasons for different ethnicities are the same core reasons for differences in cultures created from said groups.
"prove it, show me how. all around me i see all these people from different races how can express the very same thoughts and emotions and understand each other, if there is a neurological difference, i expect it to be incredibly small and insignificant"
What the hell is this even trying to ask? are you trying to ask me to prove neurological differences between racial groups? well first off, that type of research is " racist" and isnt allowed to be done. i bring up IQ as my point, and you can feel free to look into that all you like, but to be quite frank, the current understanding of the human brain and with respect, intelligence as well, is not a well understood field to begin with.
"Go outside. This isn't meant to be a insult. I have encountered may different people of different races, who are more British than some white Britons here."
Yeah i dont care what you see. Im in the US, and i see this all the time. im now living in a foreign country, despite never moving in my life.
"Also can other whites who are from other countries, like poles and Romanians, can they adopt different cultures?"
As i said, some cultures are easier to blend than others. European cultures are more capable of inter assimilation. So like in the US when the irish came, there was a period of discontent and lets say " disagreeable" actions, the numbers were not overwhelming, they had similar cultures, and are coexisting. meanwhile, you have cliques of ethnicities popping up everywhere. hell, an entire city near me is straight up half chinese, and the street signs are bilingual in that part of town...
"what? that doesn't answer the question, if race was a factor then why do people of the same race not think exactly the same?"
What kind of stupid question is that? does every bulldog have the exact same personality? does every bluejay sound exactly the same? does a twin think exactly the same as the other twin? no, so why would your question even make sense?
"Before we move on, define culture and define ethnicity, think you are mixing up the two."
No, YOU are not getting my point. thats where this confusion comes in... " ethnicity" which is the genetic linage of a group of people, has direct impact on the cultures those groups of people create. There is a direct link between biology and culture.
"I am not talking about biological evolution, I am talking about cultural and behavioral differences that arise from growing up in a different environment."
The same principals of biological evolution have the same effect on culture... this is what im trying get at
"if you have a kid who grew up in a working class environment and a kid who grew up in a middle class environment, you would expect their values and behaviors to be different, even if they are twins."
Right, and yet there will STILL be many similarities in things they like or dislike. they will still be inside the same overall culture, and i already pointed out that even if they are twins there can and will be differences.
None of this proves anything ive said incorrect
"Regardless you still need to prove neurological differences"
they do, IQ and the bell curve
"and even if they exist, a black person can do anything a white person can"
Debatable. i dont see the entire third world rushing to go to majority black nations
"smart people exist within every race"
and averages, IQ differences, and other biological differences exist
"meaning every person should be treated on a case by case basis anyway."
100% false
Your english isnt that great. im going to assume you are new to europe
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@iumasz6088
" I can answer every point you've made but i think we can agree it is becoming trying to type out massive essay all the time, because of this i will narrow it down to a few statements, as there is this one faulty line of thinking that underpins your world view."
You can try
What i meant was that if we where to use race as a determining factor that we would use, then why would we use race, as not everyone of that race thinks the same and there are exceptions."
This question doesnt make sense. We still use breed names to describe dogs even though all dogs in the same breed arent 100% identical
"Race would be a valid factor to use if every single member thought the same, but you've established that there are outliers and exceptions."
Translation "because all in one category do not exhibit exact copies of everything, we can type that category to categorize"
cmon man it doesnt follow
"well if they exist then why use race as a determining factor?"
Because N.A.X.A.L.T..( not all X are like that)
"not everyone of that race is the same, then why treat them as if they are the same?"
Im not, YOU are, you say : we are all individuals and race doesnt matter" im stating that it DOES matter, and it shapes who we are on a genetic level. Pointing out that two twins have differences, therefore racial categorization doesnt work is foolish to state...
"also IQ data is meaningless"
No, it really isnt
"IQ is a measure of intelligence, which is increased by education
Yeah, and this is meaningless. you can educate an idiot, but he is still an idiot. the bell curve exists, and you cant educate a 68 IQ somalian to be a 100 IQ person. not gonna happen. IQs change and fluctuate over time and based on what an individual does. but you arent getting to 100 from 68 thtrough education.
"so people from developing countries with low level of education would do worse"
And yet iq differences STILL exist in racial groups in the US alone. you are wrong on this one
"It also only measures pattern recognition, only one part of general intelligence."
Again, if a simple measure for intelligence is too much for some groups of people, what makes you think they will be candidates to integrate
"Where was my English bad? Also speaking out of a glass house, almost every time i quote you your quotes are full of red underlines."
yeah but words not being in googles dictionary or things like isnt and isn't arent the same as sentences not making coherent sense.
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@RickyLafleur10
Take the vaccine, or else you are anti-semitic towards elves!!!!
It's the plan of the elves!
1. CDC director, Rochelle P. Walensky is an elf
2. CDC Deputy Director, Anne Schuchat, is an elf
3. CDC Chief of staff, Sherri A. Berger, is an elf
4. CDC Chief Medical Officer, Mitchell Wolfe, is an elf
5. CDC Director, Washington Office, Jeff Reczek,is an elf
6. COVID Czar, Jeff Zients, is an elf
7. COVID Senior Advisor, Andy Slavitt, is an elf
8. HHS Ass. Secretary, Rachel Levine, is a dude and a elf
9. Pfzer’s CEO is an elf
10. Moderna’s vaccine created by a elf
11. Johnson & Johnson CEO is a elf
12. Teva is an Israel pharmaceutical company with a Elfish CEO
13. Regeneron Pharma CEO is a elf
14. AstraZeneca’s CEO was to take over as CEO of Israel’s Teva Pharmaceuticval which means he’s an elf
Oops
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@GodOfOrphans
"We're not trying to convince the cultists we're trying to convince the unenlightened masses,"
and then the next breath
" but the audience on the other hand might stumble onto it and see the leftist making an ass of themselves and be convinced"
and yet we have people like vaush, and the rest of breadtube
Spoiler, a vast majority of the human population are at NPC levels of awareness. and you are wasting your time with them
" but if they have some kind of Pavlovian trigger they're gonna immediately tune out whoever activated it"
yes, and we cant talk about the subject that is verboten because thats the important topic to discuss. again, ignoring the elephant in the room. pretending that this is just a cult, and the end result of a massive conspiracy unfolding since the beginning of world war 1, is just not going to matter
"will basically need to be exterminated eventually, but we can't do that if the masses still don't recognize them as an evil threat! "
you cant assess a threat if you cant talk about certain topics with the general masses. you will spend years and years trying desperately in vain to convince people, while those in power continue to march forward into the mayocide
"you keep strawmanning me into positions I don't actually hold because you're that desperate for a fight I guess"
its not strawmanning, its technically argumentum ad absurdum, but its to prove a point that you cant see, and continue to think im just being argumentative. Im not trying to " argue" im just trying to articulate that your mode of operation is just like the last few decades of " conservatism" which conserve nothing but create act like a hand brake half assedly engaged while leftism continues leftward...
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@GodOfOrphans
"There are too many self hating Ws for you to have the numbers needed to win if you organize along ethnic lines"
uh no, we would be fine thanks, just need to get the government to stop fcking everything up
If there's any irony to be found it's in the fact that we've reached that point at all not in my statement itself, but of course you're a nuance blind imbecile, that's why I have to restate things like this repeatedly because you're clearly a special needs adult."
So doubling down on adhoms now? cmon man im at least trying in good faith here....
"Trump did one thing better than anyone who came before and that's he blew the lid off of just how far gone and entrenched everything is, how many people would recognize the uniparty as a thing if it weren't for him, how many more people would still blindly follow the media if they didn't collectively lose their minds over him"
Lose their minds? it was a scripted reality show. Everyone involved made out like bandits...
and now those same people are qanon followers, and think god emperor is going to save them. a false empty hope given to them by a democrat who switched D to R and ran on the blandest, milquetoast of rightward opinions, adn did nothing for W people, and everything to show how wonderful he was to non whites... this did nothing, and was pressure relief valve for the growing discontent. he was never meant to do anything, and the people who are just now finding out about the uniparty are so low IQ and indoctrinated it doesnt matter... anyone who hasnt figure out the uniparty and the globalists schemes in 2020 has CLEARLY done ZERO work at understanding the cause of events that are leading us to our inevitable conclusion of repeating history very violently . Maybe it can be avoided, but not if people keep pretending its ok, and that itll work out without a major conflict of some kind...
"The fact that people are discussing your point of view with any degree of openness today is directly due to how much Trump shattered the mask"
absolutly laughable. he did a great job though, look how much influence he has over your opinions on the matter. The people you talk about are the midnless followers. the NPCs of the horde
"made the masses question things again"
Epstiens "suicide" did more do make people question things than ANYTHING trump did... at all..
"even those among us who hate him have been red pilled by how crazy the establishment went over him, pulling out all the stops up to and cheating to try and get rid of him and they're still scared shitless of him"
you clearly dont grasp anything in the political sphere do you? the people who dont like trump dont care about the truth, they care bout them being right or their team winning. If these people couldnt see how full of sht the media was in the 80s and 90s wtf is them being closer to figuring it out matter if they have no ability to think critically about information given to them, because if you could do that, you would have nothing to " praise" trump over..
"you can call him many unkind things and be right but controlled opposition is not one of them.
Yeah sure buddy, whatever you say. just remember no one went to jail, he filled his picks with swamp creatures, and kissed the wall...
He is controlled opposition of the highest order
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@Raylan Givens
"And Native Americans, black Americans, Asian Americans, and even going by "white Europeans" you would be wrong to argue as if these were a group that shared the same culture. The Irish were seen as less than Africans. Italians were seen as a criminal class. "White European" were so diverse that very few have anything in common.
So ignoring the fact that 1. " native americians" were also not " native" and had migrated, didnt have a singular " nation" and 2. the US was ~90% white its entire existence, irish and italians are closer to germans and the dutch than somalians, cape verdians, or koreans...
Collectivism: (saving space)
So when you have varying ethnic groups, such as " poc" engaging in " collectivism" what do you propose be done in response? You have advocacy groups, and all the political and financial powers that may bring. every group but " white" is allowed to do this, as when whites do this it is racist
individualism
OK,. i propose the same question. Where does individualism get you when you have collectives voting against your interests
Definition of fascism
Im not advocating for fascism, because
"a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual "
Sounds ok in the sense that protecting the nations people is in the best interest of said nations government, but
"and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"
Isnt what im advocating
Definition of liberalism
Good thing we dont have free markets, a gold standard or fair competition in this grand nation filled with so called liberals
Definition of republicanism
doesnt really describe what "republicanism" is other than using the word in its own definition
Definition of nationalism
Nothing wrong with nationalism
"no the US, at least not as how the Founders intended, is not in any way collectivist. It is a Constitutional Republic founded on liberal deals"
Free white men of good character
It was a nation of white Europeans FOR white Europeans, and white europeans are the only group not allowed to have any self interest groups, in a nation founded by white europeans.
"It is not based on race as the concept of the "white race" is an idiotic concept when people who today would be considered white such as the Irish and Italians were not always considered white."
Yeah, and how many times have other europeans fought with other europeans? why does the fact that animosity between white groups exists negate the concept of white groups as a whole?
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@skitidet4302
"No, that solves nothing, only idiotic commies think that such a system could work."
Lol ok im with you so far
"The way you stop this process is by having powerful institutions like the state"
Aaaand you lost me. the state having power is why we are here. with greater government power comes greater influence.
"If the state, the church or the king is smart and moral it/he will see what is going on and start a purge/inquisition before the merchant class accumulates too much power and influence."
Weird, if only someone tried to do that in the past... HHMMMMM Maybe uncle A was on to something
It's the only way to keep it in check, this is why the Dutch and the British has so much blame for the situation we are in now. They allowed this boil to fester and they served as a bridgehead from which financial power and the liberal logic that goes with it, could corrupt the rest of the world.
Yeahhh but they werent dutch or british, they were a DIFFERENT group of people
"Right, but MY point is they only GOT that rich by BEING corrupt... the system that takes place in is irrelevant when the ones making the rules are the ones benefitting from them."
No, the system does matter. Merchant-corruption does not pay nearly as much in pre-capitalistic systems since the Merchant class will get mercilessly purged if they get too powerful and start threatening the other powers in a healthy system.
What the hell is this even supposed to mean? What healthy system? the one where the same corruption is in the very state, church or kings court?
"Capitalism has everything to do with this, this current system was born of capitalism and capitalism is it's driving force."
So what the hell is capitalism? did capitalism make capitalism? or is capitalism not the system we operate under? which is it?
Remove capitalism and it dies, it's the lifeblood of the current order.
How?
Other systems could never produce an abomination like this because they aren't so insidious.
soooo was weimar germany capitlaism? was the end days of rome capitalism?
"Yeah but YOU attribute that to capitalism, and still existed 50 years ago, while Im trying to articulate that the system has nothing to do with it, the moral corruption comes from this liberal lefty live and let live garbage. you think capitalism is what manipulates social constructs and group think? no, thats the media and Hollywood, i wonder which group of people are over represented in those..."
Capitalism still existed 50 years ago, true, but capitalism dosen't just flip a switch and change everything.
no, its just the idea that you should be rewarded for your labor, and if you can offer a service or product to people freely able to choose products or services to buy.
"It works by being insidious and subtly doing things behind the scenes over time, it has to be like this because the whole system is built on an illusion of freedom."
You keep talking about things that have nothing to do with capitalism, you keep mentioning subversion and insidious tactics, but it isnt the SYSTEM that does this, it is a certain group
If they destroy the illusion they risk losing everything so ofc they would not dare pushing immoral stuff like that until they have sufficiently undermined the morality of their subjects.
this has nothing to do with capitalism and has everything to do with the corruption of culture using media... who owns the media?
Who do you think fund lefty media and Hollywood? Who do you think fund the democratic party? Let me tell you. It's billionaires that run multinational corporations and are part of the small kabal that run this world.
Its like you are so close yet so far. Yes this is a cabal, yes they run international finance, yes they run the world. no this has nothing to do with capitalism
The whole left vs right system is just a scam, both parties are controlled. Politics in a democracy is at best an internal power-game played among the elite, but most of the time it looks like it's just kabuki theater.
riiiight and your solution is more government control/power?
"so religion aside, you seem to miss the part where history IS cyclical, and there is a group of people who are manipulating that. and it has nothing to do with " capitalism""
I fail to understand what you are getting at. Please clarify.
Look we already had someone who tried to kill the international finance system, he was turned into the embodiment of evil, and destroyed nationalism and white identity forever
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@Arctc-zh6rg
1. Humans are different from other mammals in that we don't have sub-species of humans. We have different phenotypes(races/ethnicities) but those are mostly cosmetic and/or socially constructed. Black and white-skinned humans are far more similar than chimpanzees and gorillas for example. That was my only point."
AH yes, the " its only cosmetic differences" reply.. you know you are fundamentally wrong here right?
2. There are different breeds of dogs lmao what? Poodles, German Shepherds, Chihuahuas etc. Those are different breeds my dude lol.
Ah yes, but you see, those are just phenotype differences and they are mostly cosmetic or socially constructed...
3. Idk what country you're from or how they do it there, but in the US(and Canada), if you're born physically within our borders, you are granted automatic citizenship. Other countries has varying restrictions, but this is fairly consistent throughout the western world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli
Yeah its crazy granting citizenship just because you were in a specific geographic region makes you totally one of that nation and will totally just blend in culturally. you are so lost
4. Immigrants assimilate and have been assimilating into their new countries for thousands of years. You act like immigrants around the world are just starting their own nations within the nations they travel too, which isn't happening anywhere, like at all lol. Stop trying to justify your racism and just take the L.
LOL dude you have o idea how wrong you are. " you act like immigrants just start their own nations within the nations they travel to" you know thats exactly what they do right? you CLEARLY have no idea what you are talking about..
" which isn't happening anywhere, like at all lol"
Why do you fckin lie dude? there are entire cities that are dominated by one ethnicity, like indians move in, now the entire block is Indian with Indian food stores, Indian religions buildings, and people speaking hindi... same with chinese, vitanmese, and tons of other ethnic flavors. Nothing like going into a CVS or a WALMART and being one of a tiny minority of W people while every other non W is speaking foreign languages in your own country... yup, that assimilation sure works out well...
Hey maybe, assimilation cant work if you endlessly continue importing foreigners? instead of assimilating, there is nothing to assimilate to, so they just stick with their own clan... if you opened your ese you could see this.... but for some reason you wont... like its intentional...
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@ericfisher1360 "If I am honest I suspect many are not understanding what I am actually saying, or the concept of Nation outside of the legal framework is a bit difficult to conceptualize for some."
a nation is its people
Nation
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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@luciddream2033
"immigration isn't the same as replacing you"
Except when those that are " immigrating" are in much larger numbers, and eventually outnumber you in your own nations... but you dont care about that
"And Japan isn't America. If you look at what my founding fathers envisioned, it was about a set of values and liberty and freedom are at the core of those values."
If you knew anything about the founding fathers , you would be calling them alt right entho nationalistic religious nut bars
Free white men of good character
yup, they totally envisioned a multicultural diverse hellscape
"Anyone can share those values, regardless of where they come from or what race they are"
Sure but you will never change who they are. you pretend race is just superficial skin differences, while ignoring the context of culture being downstream from ethnicity
"This is what our founding fathers envisioned, a home to all those who desired freedom, not just white Europeans."
Buddy they literally created an ethnoistate, and you are telling me they didnt. you have no idea what you are talking about
"Do I understand the word, nation? Sure."
Then you obviously dont understand it.
"But what is your point? Do you think people from other nations can't be American because they are from another country?"
Yes, basically. you abide by civic nationalism, whereas i can see it will never work. mostly because of people like you
"My wife is Asian and she is more American than you will ever be."
Laughably bullsht
"Just own your nazism and racism."
You unironically have zero clue about anything you are talking about, and its sad, because im sure you are serious
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@luciddream2033 "to answer your dumb question, it would depend on what Japanese is."
There is no " depends" on what it is.
"If Japanese means someone who is living in Japan and partaking in their society, then I will would say it's even more Japanese than it was."
And you and i both know this would never happen, because you clearly have no grasp on what nations are or what culture really is birthed from. you are a civ nat,
"But if you can't separate your ethnicity from your nationality then it would be different. Does that answer your question?"
it informs me that i need to copy paste for you
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
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@luciddream2033
"yes I understand what you are sayin"
If anything this conversation has done, is illuminate how little you understand from what i say...
"You are saying that a nation is primarily defined by a race of people sharing a common culture and that to dilute the nation with other races makes it less than it was"
That is exactly and entirely what it is. And that is exactly what happens, and what IS happening. yet you ignore/deny it
"First off, in those days, people were homogeneous"
Right, this is my entire point, a nation is its people, change the people change the nation. there is no way around tis
"and people were extremely tribal back then"
people are always tribal, have always been tribal, and always will BE tribal... its human nature to be tribal, and only one group of people isnt allowed to be tribal while the rest of the world can be
"You can't compare what made up a nation 1000 years ago to what makes up a nation in the modern world."
Except it wasnt 1000 years ago, it was around 300, and you are gaslighting history for your multiculti world
"That is why nation is no longer defined that way and you cherry picked that definition to try to make some point."
Pretending that words no longer have meaning is part of the problem
pretending that the word has no meaning doesnt change the reality
you can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of reality
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@YakuzaWu
"it’s only meaningless because you want to ignore it and continue being a victim of oppression in the same vein as BLM’s rhetoric."
Laudable nonsense... im actively discriminated against because im w a white male. i dont get free stuff, i dont get mo programs, i dont get the benefit of the doubt, I dont get accepted with lower scores...
"You can’t get a small business loan/incentives because you’re white?"
Again not what i said. i said i dont get a bunch of free shit for being non white. like non whites do when doing the same things. non whites get perks and bonus and " help" to do something while the white guy doesnt qualify
exactly like when i tried for loans and grants for college, pages and pages and pages of shit for minorities, non whites and women, but very little for the white man, with all my privileges and all, i guess i dont need more help...
"that’s a lie… I’m white and I did lmao."
Also a lie, because you didnt get a bunch of free shit descanted loan rates, or anything else i just talked about.
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@DigitalGamerPixel
" I'm obviously a left wing democrat while you're a right wing republican. We have two very opposing ideas of what's good for the country, yet we can both admit the modern left has gone insane."
Sure, but we can also admit you are fundamentally wrong on many of the cores of your belief's..
"We need to start compromising again, which is what the two parties were intended to do."
WE were never intended to have a 2 party system. and compromising with the left is exactly how we got to where we are right now... there is no compromising with people who fundamentally do not see the world the way it really is.
"For example an ideal situation could be the left allows a border wall to be built to stop illegal immigration, while the right allows more leniency with legal immigration."
Again, this isnt a compromise, this is just the left winning the long game once again...
The left gets more and more immigrants, so later when they want more, its easier. Anyone paying attention to the immigration/demographic problem for a long time can see this plain as day.
"Neither side fully gets what they want, and that was the point because our country has a two party system, we need to compromise for those people."
No, we dont,. thats the core issue here. Every " compromise" is just a step to the left.
"We need to stop demonizing each other and just accept we have different views and be willing to bend a little on different things for the betterment of the country."
WE need to accept that some people are wrong. Like you
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@AmineSamus
Makes the country richer and more productive
you realize this only makes the rich richer right? the poor now have more poor to compete with and wages go down...
What foreign country?
Well when i look outside my house i see that over the last 20 years most of the new houses get bought up by rich asian families who dont speak english very well. Not to mention entire towns transforming into ethnic enclaves....
Diversity of culture, heritage, shared language keeps thing less stale and more fun
Its called cohesion, and a foundation for a strong functioning nation...
"Balkanization" only occurs because people are uncomfortable with foreign people. We fix these attitudes by understanding each other and the only way to do this is interact with said foreigners
No, its literally the foreigners who would rather stay with others like them.. which is the entire point. All this will do, is let millions more in, to fill into their own little enclaves, like they always do, because this is human nature.
Cost of living is already garbage and increased under Trump
Ahh yes so lets just make it even worse. great plan, also "*OrAnGe MaN bAd*
Build more houses. We have more houses right now than homeless people
This is the part i dont think youll seem to understand. The COST of these homes is why they remain empty. All this will do is increase the cost, because you will have millions and millions more people with money coming in to buy up property with currency exchanges that make me weep, literally selling out the country while spitting in the face of the homeless we already have...
Fund schools so they can take in more students and expand class sizes
Oh right, money printer go BRRRRR
oh, wait whos going to teach them? whos going to build the schools? where's all this money coming from? its going to be a financial disaster
Lets just kick everyone out then so we won't have any competition
So we arent even going to try and discuss this topic you so clearly dont understand?
They pay taxes thus contributing to that system. We don't have universal healthcare right now, so what's supposed to mean?
Just picture all the problems we have now, and just explode it X3. The taxes are gonna come from what? the cratered wages? hows that gonna work out?
Freedom of movement and enriching our culture/increasing number of small businesses which means more jobs, decreases cost of living.
None of this is a good thing. culture isnt enriched by pouring millions of foreigners in. all you do is dilute the original culture and embolden foreign cultures. This will increase competition for the small numbers of jobs we already have. Its like you know nothing about what you are talking about, but are so convinced
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@chrimony "A shared ancestry, language, culture, and history. "
that literally comes form the very people that make up a nation i fail to see how you arent grasping what im telling you
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
when you change the people you change the culture and history, and heritage and language.....
that is my entire " people" point that you seem to keep glossing over for some reason while calling me disingenuous
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@eggynack "being a nation is about having sovereignty about what goes on within said nation"
So when people say no, and it happens any way, and the people who come in now out vote the people here before what happened to " having sovereignty about what goes on within said nation"?
"People being allowed to enter as they please does not challenge this capacity. "
you are willfully ignorant to the words you yourself speak.....
"In point of fact, the idea that a nation must express their power in this way, by limiting immigration, is a limitation on its sovereignty."
"you cant be sovereign if you dont let anyone in at all"
you are seriously not a real person. you have to be a parody
you clearly dont know what a nation actually is... so let me educate you
c.1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
Read the 1790 nationality act and tell me what it means " America" is as a nation
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BUT WAIT THERES MORE
Pt 1
Arthur O Sulzberger Jr. – Chairman & Publisher
Arthur O Sulzberger Jr. is Chairman and Publisher of the New York Times. Arthur O Sulzberger Jr. is ✡. According to JPost, a ✡ news publication, the Sulzbergers are a ✡ family
Michael Golden – Vice Chairman
Michael Golden is Vice Chairman of the New York Times. Michael Golden is ✡. Michael Golden is the father of Hays Golden , who is also on the New York Times’ board of directors , and the son of Ruth Sulzberger Holmberg, who is the sister of Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, who was ✡.
Arthur Greg Sulzberger – Deputy Publisher
Arthur Greg Sulzberger is Deputy Publisher of the New York Times. Arthur Greg Sulzberger is Jewish. Arthur Gregg is the son of Arthur O Sulzberger Jr , whose father, Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, was the New York Times publisher before him. [16]. According to JPost, a ✡ news publication, the Sulzbergers are a ✡ family
Mark Thompson – President & CEO
Mark Thompson is the President and CEO of the New York Times. Mark Thompson’s wife is ✡. The Independent has confirmed that his Thompson’s wife, Jane Blumberg, is ✡. The ✡ Voice of NY has likewise confirmed
Joseph Kahn – Managing Editor
Joseph Kahn is the Managing Editor of the New York Times. Joseph Kahn is ✡. Joseph Kahn is the son of Leo Kahn, a co-founder of Staples Inc. who was ✡, according to the ✡Telegraphic Agency.
Meredith Kopit Levin - Executive Vice President, Chief Operating Officer
Meredith Kopit Levin is Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of the New York Times. Meredith Kopit Levin is ✡ . Meredith’s husband, Jason Levin , has stated, "I am ✡ . I had my bar mitzvah in Israel.”
James Bennet – Lead Editor, Editorial Page
James Bennet is the Lead Editor for the Editorial Page of the New York Times. James Bennet is ✡. Rocky Mountain News has confirmed that James Bennet is the brother of politician Michael Bennet who is also ✡.. James and Michael are the sons of Susanne Klejman Wed to D. J. Bennet Jr. The publication US News has likewise confirmed that James’ and Michaels’ mother was Polish-✡ .. Several publications have likewise confirmed that Michael Bennet is ✡, including ✡Virtual Library the ✡publication JWeekly, and the Israeli-based newspaper Times of Israel.
David Perpich – President & General Manager, The Wirecutter
David Perpich is President and General Manager of the New York Times’ The Wirecutter. David Perpich is . Perpich was married in a ✡wedding ceremony performed by Rabbi Harvey J. Winokur. Perpich is the newphew of current New York Times publisher, Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.
Rebecca Blumenstein – Deputy Managing Editor
Rebecca Blumenstein is Deputy Managing Editor of the New York Times. Rebecca Blumenstein is ✡. Joanna Barsh and Johanna Lavoie write in their book, “Centered Leadership”, that Rebeccae Blumenstein’s family moved to Essexville, Michigan, where Rebacca as the “only ✡ kid in her fourth grade.”. Rebecca and her husband Paul’s life stories have been featured in The ✡Chronicle..
Paul Walborsky – Senior Vice President, NYT Global
Paul Walborsky is Senior Vice President, NYT Global. Paul Walborsky is ✡. Walborsky was married to Liann Schottenstein in a Jewish wedding performed by Rabbi Aaron M. Petuchowski.. Paul and Liann have donated to the Addison-Penzak JCC of Silicon Valley, a ✡or organization.. Paul and Liann are also donors to JValley (The ✡Federation of Silicon Valley).
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pt 5
*SECTION 5: NYT Correspondents & Reporters*
Maggie Haberman – White House Correspondent
Maggie Haberman is a White House Correspondent for the New York Times. Maggie Haberman is ✡. The Forward, a ✡ publication, has confirmed that Haberman is ✡..
Binyamin Applebaum - Washington Correspondent
Binyamin Applebaum is a Washington Correspondent for the New York Times.. Binyamin Applebaum is ✡. Applebaum attended the Maimonides School, a ✡ day school.. Applebaum has written about his time at Maimonides.
Dana Goldstein – National Correspondent
Dana Goldstein is a National Correspondent for the New York Times. Dana Goldstein is ✡. Own Goldstein’s own website, she has written about her “✡ upbringing,” being raised as a “Conservative-movement ✡ ,” and attending “Hebrew school.” .
Sam Roberts – Urban Affairs Correspondent
Sam Roberts is an Urban Affairs Correspondent for the New York Times. Sam Roberts is ✡. Sam’s son, Michael, was married in a ✡ wedding performed by Rabbi Erica Greenbaum. . Roberts has written on ✡ themes in his work..
David Sanger – National Security Correspondent
David Sanger is the National Security Correspondent for the New York Times.. David Sanger is ✡. David’s grandfather is Elliott M. Sanger a co-founder of WQXR, who was ✡ and was a part of the American ✡ Committee.. Elliot interviewed Iphigene Ochs Sulzberger for the American ✡ Committee and “asker her about ✡ stuff.”.
Isabel Kershner – Correspondent
Isabel Kershner is a Correspondent for the New York Times.. Isabel Kershner is Jewish. Kershner has been described as a "✡ Israeli".. Kershner is married to Hirsch Goodman, who is also ✡.
Samuel Freedman – Columnist
Samuel Freedman is a Columnist for the New York Times.. Samuel Freedman is ✡ . Freedman was named one of the “Forward Fifty" most important American ✡ in the year 2000 by The Forward, a weekly ✡ newspaper.. Freedman is a board member of the ✡ Book Council and for several years was a regular columnist on American ✡ issues for the Jerusalem Post.
Judith Shuleveitz – Columnist
Judith Shulevitz is a Columnist for the New York Times.. Judith Shulevitz is ✡ . The ✡ Journal has written about Judith Shulevitz’s ✡ writings and her “own ✡ experiences.”. Shulevitz has spoken with NPR about her ✡ and her observance of the ✡ Sabbath..
Ron Lieber – Columnist, Your Money
Ron Lieber is the Columnist for the New York Times’ column, Your Money.. Ron Lieber is ✡. Ron Lieber is “a reform ✡.” Ron Lieber is married to Jodi Kantor, and the two have made personal announcements regarding their wedding.
Jim Rutenberg – Media Columnist
Jim Rutenberg is a Media Columnist for the New York Times.. Jim Rutenberg is ✡ . Rutenberg’s mother is Barbara Ritter Rutenberg ,rents buried were at Mount Lebanon Cemetery , a ✡ cemetery. Rutenberg has written about being a ✡ journalist. .
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pt 6
Eric Lipton – Investigative Reporter
Eric Lipton is an Investigative Reporter for the New York Times.. Eric Lipton is ✡ . Lipton was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony, as announced by the ✡ Exponent, a ✡ publication.
Adam Goldman - National Security Reporter
Adam Goldman is a National Security Reporter for the New York Times. Adam Goldman is ✡ . Goldman lived in Israel for a number of years before returning to US. On Facebook Goldman ‘likes’ Gan Shalom ✡ preschool which is a ✡ preschool.
Benjamin Weiser – Federal Courts Reporter
Benjamin Weiser is a Federal Courts Reporter for the New York Times.. Benjamin Weiser is ✡. The Forward, a ✡ publication, has confirmed that Weiser is ✡..
Jess Silver-Greenberg - Business Reporter
Jess Silver-Greenberg is a Business Reporter for the New York Times.. Jess Silver-Greenberg is ✡. Silver-Greenberg has made light of her oft-✡last names, referring to herself as “✡-✡.”
Robin Pogrebin – Culture Reporter
Robin Pogrebin is a Culture Reporter for the New York Times. Robin Pogrebin is ✡. Robin’s mother, Letty Cottin Pogrebin, is also a journalist and has written that both she and Robin are ✡. .
Barry Meier – Investigative Reporter
Barry Meier is an Investigative Reporter for the New York Times.. Barry Meier is ✡. Barry was married in a ✡wedding ceremony to his wife, Ellen Pollock.. Barry has discussed his parents efforts to flee from NS Germany in the 1930s..
Matthew Schneier – Styles Reporter
Matthew Schneier is a Styles Reporter for the New York Times. Matthew Schneier is ✡. Schneier has confirmed that he is ✡ on Twitter, discussing his “✡ upbringing.”
Sheri Fink – Heath Correspondent
Sheri Fink is a Health Correspondent for the New York Times.. The Detroit ✡ News has alluded to Fink’s ✡ background. Fink is a featured author of the ✡ Book Council, and she has given speeches at ✡ community centers. Enclopedia.com has also reported that Fink is ✡..
Julie Turkewitz – Reporter
Julie Turkewitz is a Reporter for the New York Times.. Julie Turkewitz is ✡. Julie on Facebook is related to Carol Blumstein Turkewitz, who can be seen celebrating Chanukah, and all of the Turkewitz’s can be seen wearing kippas.
Jodi Kantor – Reporter
Jodi Kantor is a Reporter for the New York Times.. Jodi Kantor is ✡ . Kantor has stated that her Grandmother is “a 93 year-old H survivor.” Kantor has given speeches to Columbia University’s Center for ✡ Student Life [ and the Westchester ✡Center. [. Jodi Kantor is married to Ron Lieber [, a “reform ✡” [, and the two have made personal announcements regarding their wedding. [.
Alexandra Kuczynski – Correspondent & Reporter
Alexandra Kuczynski is a Correspondent and Reporter for the New York Times. Alexandra Kuczynski is ✡ . Alexandra is the daughter of Pedro-Pablo Kuczynski the previous Finance Minister of Peru, who is ✡ according to Times of Israel..
Roger Cohen – Op-Ed Columnist
Roger Cohen is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times. Roger Cohen is ✡ . Cohen has written about growing up ✡ and having a “proud ✡ identity.”
David Brooks – Op-Ed Columnist
David Brooks is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times. David Brooks is Jewish. Brooks has written that “As an American Jew, I was taught to go all gooey-eyed at the thought of Israel...."
Thomas Friedman – Op-Ed Columnist
Thomas Friedman is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times, and he writes about foreign affairs, globalization and technology. Thomas Friedman is ✡. Friedman has stated in his writings that he is ✡.. Friedman also “attended Hebrew school five days a week until his Bar Mitzvah.”. Friedman “became enamored with Israel after a visit there” in December 1968, and he spent all three of his high school summers living on Kibbutz HaHotrim, near Haifa..
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pt 7
Frank Rich – Op-ed Columnist
Frank Rich is an Op-ed Columnist for the New York Times.. Frank Rich is ✡. Rich has for the ✡ Washington, stating that his father’s family was “German-✡immigrants” and his mother’s family was “Russian-✡ immigrants.”
Andrew Rosenthal – Op-Ed Columnist
Andrew Rosenthal is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times. Andrew Rosenthal is Jewish. Andrew is the son of ✡ author A.M. Rosenthal, whose funeral was held at Central Synagogue.. Author Harrison Salisbury has further confirmed that Rosenthal is ✡.
Paul Krugman – Op-Ed Columnist
Paul Krugman is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times.. Paul Krugman is ✡ . Krugman has been listed among the "prominent American ✡ economists" in the Encyclopedia of American ✡ History..
Peter Beinart – Op-Ed Columnist
Peter Beinart is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times.. Peter Beinart is ✡. Beinart’s parents were ✡ immigrants from South Africa, according to the ✡ publication Tablet Mag, and Beinart has written about how he remembers “walking back with [his] grandmother one night from synagogue.
Herbert Buchsbaum – Senior Editor
Herbert Buchsbaum is a Senior Editor for the New York Times.. Herbert Buchsbaum is ✡. The obituary for Herbert’s father, Aaron Buchsbaum, requested that donations in Aaron’s name be made to the ✡ Educational Alliance or the Agudath Achim Synagogue, and Aaron was buried in Bonaventure Cemetery which is a ✡ cemetery.
Richard Bernstein – Book Critic
Richard Bernstein is a Book Critic for the New York Times. Richard Bernstein is ✡ . The New York Times has confirmed that Bernstein is ✡..
Eric Asimov – Wine & Food Critic
Eric Asimov is the New York Times’ Wine and Food Critic. Eric Asimov is ✡. Eric Asimov is the nephew of author Isaac Asimov, who along with Eric’s father Stanley Asimov, grew up in an Orthodox ✡ family and a father that was an “Orthodox ✡.”
Jacob Bernstein – Features Writer
Jacob Bernstein is a Features Writer for the New York Times.. Jacob Bernstein is ✡. The Jewish ✡ has confirmed that Bernstein is ✡ and stated that he “attended a ✡ school” when growing up..
Elizabeth Rubin – Contributing Writer
Elizabeth Rubin is a Contributing Writer for the New York Times. Elizabeth Rubin. Elizabeth is the sister of James Rubin, who is ✡ according to TV Newsroom [ and Yahoo Voices. ].
NeJames Bennet is the Lead Editor for the Editorial Page of the New York Times. James Bennet is ✡. Rocky Mountain News has confirmed that James Bennet is the brother of politician Michael Bennet who is also ✡. James and Michael are the sons of Susanne Klejman Wed to D. J. Bennet Jr. The publication US News has likewise confirmed that James’ and Michaels’ mother was Polish-✡. Several publications have likewise confirmed that Michael Bennet is ✡, including ✡ Virtual Library the ✡ publication JWeekly and the Israeli-based newspaper Times of Israel.
.
Maggie Haberman is a White House Correspondent for the New York Times. Maggie Haberman is ✡. The Forward, a ✡ publication, has confirmed that Haberman is ✡ .
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@75ur15
BTW, i had it too. i think i had it twice, but confirmed once.
"As for fighting on the enemies terms, sometimes you find yourself backed into a corner and the enemy has the advantage, you fight or surrender, there is no retreat.....it isn't always a loss but it is better than laying down and taking it."
right but there is no fighting. only capitulation to THEIR terms... {still discussing lockdowns, mandates, and jabs, when none of them should even be discussed in the way they are in the first place. We spent 2 years doing this, did anything happen when cuomo deleted a bunch of old folks? nope. did anything happen after ventilators were bursting lungs? nope., did we do anything about the endless lies? no, because we are still addressing them on their narrative terms. that is the entire problem.
"calling out rules for thee not for me is just that"
Its literally galling your opponent a cheater in a game of monopoly when they are the banker and the rule maker. they dont give a sht,. they will either change their rules, pay off someone, and keep the goalpost moving, or straight up gaslight you. Stop engaging them on their field
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@jacobedwards4747 lol, just because i mock sargon doesnt mean i dont like watching his content. him being wrong on stuff doesnt make him no entertaining.
"" I don't blame everything on tiny hats, but actually they're all scheming against us and everything is their fault""
If you are gonna quote me can you do it with a little less obvious disingenuousness?
" Where's your evidence that tiny hats partake in bad things disproportionately?"
IDK you can start with their own words. Just because you dont hear them say it doesnt mean it isnt said. For instance, there is an article on the center for immigration studies entitled "The Jish Stake in America's Changing Demography". Or good ole barbara spectre.
"How exactly are you different from the basketball Americans who blame everything on "HUWHITE SOOPREMISSY"? "
Have you seen the crime rates and bell curve for IQ? I mean If you want to get into it, i wonder which group was disproportionally behind civil rights lobbying and minority rights groups...nahh dont ask questions
"other than being pretty ethnically homogeneous"
I mean thats reason #1
"A lot of their culture is deviant and degenerate by your group's standards."
Listen man, you are trying to tell me that japans degeneracy is a problem, while also looking at the western world for the last 10 years, and are trying to convince me its worse or just as bad? Ill take fantasy tentacles and breasts that defy physics instead of drag and the alphabets being pushed into everything... Yeah bud. really solid argument so far =D
"Nice job doing another trope that socialists of the national variety do, which is calling anyone who disagrees with you a tiny hat."
Uh no? pretty sure i didnt do that. unless i replied " show nose" in that case, lol sure
"the Samurai were a horrible group that did terrible things to the regular people of Japan."
everyone did horrible things to everyone. i fail to see how this is a pint
"You type your comments like you're a redditor looking for upvotes, it's pretty cringe."
i would rather commit unalive than post on reddit. but thanks
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@jacobedwards4747
"I just thought you should know that he detests people like you."
Why would i care? I know exactly what im talking about, and i know im right in what i say. Just because he has to tow the line to keep his lucrative show means nothing about truth...
"How exactly am I being disingenuous?
Uhh, you "quoted" me, but didnt actually use the words i used.... i dont know what you want me to call that
"You and your little friend went on a little tirade about how tiny hats ruin everything'
I mean, you havent given me anything that would show me otherwise.... They have a vast overrepresentation in the realms of power in the nation. congress, media, hollywood, finance.... you can pretend im making this up, but until you look into it yourself, im not going to hold my breath
"Also the words of some tiny hats aren't indicative of them as a whole, so just admit that your claim is baseless"
How is it baseless? Do you actually know anything about the Jish lobby in the united states? Do you know how over represented Js are in US government? FFS the times of isreal headline "Congress is now three times as Jish as the US is" More than Half of all the chairmen of the federal reserve have been Jish.. this isnt any form of argument my dude. Little Jish mordecai down the street isnt involved in teh conspiracy, therefore it doesnt exist is the most laughable rebuttal ive ever heard...
"My point was that you have a massive victim complex and blame almost everything on a certain group, just like basketball Americans. So please explain again how you're different."
because one is real and one is imagined.... Keep pretending massive overrepresentation if Js in positions of power is in any way the same as " whyte man racis to B man" Keep pretending that the Js arent pushing the W vs B angle to deflect from themselves. Dont sit there and tell me the " fellow whyte" meme isnt real. Do you know how many times ive read twitter threads from verified checkmarks, saying " oh we whites gotta do something about the poor minorities" then when something flips around " oh im jish thats different"
"So basically you admit that Japanese culture isn't "based" but that it's less degenerate than western culture which is highly debatable."
Being less degenerate is being more based. i dont know why you feel the need to make this meaningless distinction.
"A word that means child love is a much larger problem in Japan than in the west, it was legal to make pron with children in it as long as it was drawn up until a few years ago."
Yeah man, loli is still unironically less degenerate than cuties.. lmao Imagine pretending that drawn images are just as degenerate as IRL drag and the alphabets dancing in front of children on public streets.....
"They have a multi billion dollar industry where middle aged men will rent teenaged girls to go on dates with them (in which often there will be naughty stuff involved if you know what I mean) they literally have separate subway cars because of perverted men assaulting women. I could go on but you get my point."
They also sell used panties in vending machines, you are arent making point... You point is " oh well look at this degenerate sht they do they are degenerate" while pretending that escorts are worse than a grown man in a dress waving his ck around children...
"Is being homogeneous what makes you based?"
Yes
"So North Korea must be pretty based according to you"
More based than engaging in ethnic genohpage of your own people, yeah
"Also if you didn't actually intend to call me a tiny hat, you should've phrased your sentence differently. Because you directly quoted me and said "_ews are afraid of the samurai". "
See there you go again not actually quoting... Why do you do this? its LITERALLTY right fckin there... i can only assume its because you are a dishonest person... what i said was
the __w fears the samurai
if you think that apples to you, maybe thats your own problem
"You've literally got nothing"
He said with zero argument and an inability to reply honestly about what people say...
"I know I keep saying it but it's ironic how you socialists of the national variety seem to all be massive weebs. It's pretty hypocritical towards your ideology."
"hypocritical towards your ideology" its pretty clear you know nothing about me or any ideology you think you are talking about. you are so far ignorant of the actual reality around you, that you sit there and berate me while not even grasping what im saying. you just put me in a " oh hes an X he doesnt know what hes talking about because X" get over yourself and actually look into what opiel tell you, or remain ignorant, i dont really care, you dont seem to either...
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@Betta66 wow, literal lack of self awareness personified.
here let me spoon feed (you)
In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment by stating:
"Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."
This understanding was reaffirmed by Senator Edward Cowan, who stated:
"[A foreigner in the United States] has a right to the protection of the laws; but he is not a citizen in the ordinary acceptance of the word..."
The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude American-born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. With illegal aliens who are unlawfully in the United States, their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child. Thus, the completeness of their allegiance to the United States is impaired, which therefore precludes automatic citizenship.
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@1001Balance ill help you out
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people, an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
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@albertmooney2628
"so because the nation was founded by white men and the laws only favored white men that makes it a white nation?"
thats usually how nations work, yes
"There were a lot of blacks and chinese in america before the influx of white europeans in the early 1900s."
uhhhh no, you are still wrong, as they made up a tiny percentage, and the VAST MAJORITY were all europeans... you can deny history all you want, but it still happened
"are hispanics going to make white people walk a trail of tears?'
Id rather walk the trail of tears than what the cartels do to people... you arent making the point you think you are
"Iif white people become a minority"
they already are aglobal minority with zero protections, even in their own homelands...
" will it still be a white nation, with white rulers and laws that primarily favor whites?"
if you replace all teh white poeple with non whites, then yes, but it wont be the same nation
"because being colorblind is a great idea. nothing bad ever happened to people of color in america."
because white south africians have such a good time being a white minority in a non white area... even though they founded and built up south africa, only for it to be taken away from them by non white natives.... kinda like Rhodesia
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@albertmooney2628
"so it doesnt matter who lives in a nation it only matters who is in control?"
so can you not read? because i said what i said, " so" usually precedes something not said by the person you are talking about...
"america is just as much a white nation as south africa"
Well, yeah, because both of those places were built by yite people... and now they are being made minorities in the lands they built up...
"black people have been here since before the country was founded."
Never said they werent, stop putting words in my mouth. i said it was a yite nation built by and for yite people. 95% yite is sitill a white nation
"chinese have been here since the mid 1800s."
still not having anything to do with what i said. keep it up
"they have been here but the laws and society did not favor/represent them."
i dont care
"there were no large groups of irish, italians, germans, swedes, etc. before the great migration in the early 1900s."
right, and those groups you just stated are all yite...
"too bad theres nothing america can do to fix itself to take power away from cartels"
Yeah, maybe if the citizens of said nation stopped running away and actually fixed their problems instead of just leaving it wouldnt be an issue... but here we are allowing in millions of cowards a year
"obviously everyone imprisoned at the border is a dangerous thug"
smells like straw
"You loved how we treated immigrants when trump was in charge. now the outrage from republicans about the treatment of immigrants just seems politically motivated."
ohh yeahh all that straw
"its a power dynamic. whites may not be the majority in the world but they do seem to be the richest nations. that couldnt possibly have anything to do with slavery or colonialism."
yeah im not going to delve too deep here, but, spoiler alert, yites ended salvery, and everywhere else in the world there is still slaves for the most part. but please go and tell me how we took slaves, and didnt just buy them from slavers... of their own people
"white south africans are reaping what they sow."
You have no idea what you are talking about. and it sickens me to hear you say they deserved it... absolutly shameful from you
"they built a great nation on apartheid and discrimination of the native peoples"
and if you ask those very people, they will tell you apartheid was better, and now they are all starving. good job. its almost like some people cant maintain a functioning society and it devolves into tyranny... shocking that you still think this is yite peoples fault you know NOTHING about Rhodesia, you know NOTHING of cape town.. you are as ignorant as the winter night is long
for shame dude for shame
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@albertmooney2628 "the civil war was only about slavery"
poor take
you can pretend that slaves built everything, but you'll stay wrong, if anything, it was hurting the average American worker
euros immigrate to a uro country and thats ok
yes thats what ive been trying to state. im not sure what you think you are saying when you say this....
"more legal immigration"
No, stop pretending that letting in millions of people every year is sustainable
"muh war"
we spend more on welfare than we do on military spending every year. ffs, 3 years if illegals and you cover an entire military budget for a single year
"the changing demographics of a country is not genocide."
wrong
" white birth rates have dropped due to economic and other issues"
but thats not whats causing the demographic change now is it... but you know this
"if you want a white nation get to the baby making."
great meme. maybe, we should stop importing the entire world into my nation? maybe i shouldn't have to breed like a third worlders to sustain my nations existence? wtf bro, you are joking about gen oh cide like it doesnt matter, and quite frankly its disturbing, but not unsurprising europhobia is the current trend
"but the glory days of america and south africa was when they had segregation and apartheid. if slavery/segregation/apartheid wasnt necessary for the nations why do it, just for the cruelty?"
let me explain it to you as simply as i possibly can
W people create prosperity, let non W people be in charge, turns to sht very quickly
ask ""Zimbabwe"" how they are doing after they kicked out the W people who farmed all their food
"kinda like how the native south africans had their land stolen from them and they were made to be less than human. not so fun when the shoes on the other foot."
what other foot dude? you are aware cape town was uninhabited until the dutch showed up right? "stolen land"? lol
do you have any real understanding of history? or do you just talk out of your arse?
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@albertmooney2628
"if slaves didnt build america you are saying slavery wasnt necessary and gave no economic advantage which simply is not true."
Wtf are you talking about " slaves did not build the nation" " so your saying they had no benefit" No, i said what i said, slaves didnt build the country, and if we never had slaves to begin with , we would all have been better off
"so all eurpeans are the same?"
Cool, i like the part where that's not what i said at all... almost like you are being disingenuous, good job
"sure seems like youre saying all white people are the same. when europeans immigrated here they were poor and didnt speak the language, but they were white so it was ok?"
I literally explained to you why this works. they are closer related and are able to assimilate with ease. why you are willfully not grasping what im trying to tell you is astonishing
"if we fix the problems of our country it is sustainable. healthcare, education infrastructure, criminal justice, etc. immigrants are not why your country sucks."
pretending that endless immigration does not have negative side effects on all those you mentioned is being willfully ignorant of reality. Pretending that endless immigration is in any way sustainable is denying reality.
"the fact we prioritize war over the wellbeing of our citizens is the problem"
We spend more on welfare the military 3x every year. you have no clue what you are talking about
"we should spend taxpayer dollars to help taxpayers0"
we should stop taxing... maybe just maybe, taxation is theft
"who has investing in in the military ever helped?"
Oh idk, literally every other nation in the world, any nation trading on the open ocean, any nation who has military bases using established military r&d, or the fact that the US pays for more for the UN, or maybe that the US has basically been playing world police so long that other nations dont require a massive standing military...
again, its almost like you have no idea what you are talking about on a large scale...
"instead focus on healthcare, education infrastructure."
spends more on welfare in one year than 3 years of military
you have no idea what you ae talking about
"maybe we should stop claiming america is the best nation on earth and the land of opportunity, then people wont want to come here"
this nation isnt for the entire world to ravage dude
"you just dont want your nation to look nothing like you and not be a representation of you,"
Its like you are just now grasping what a " nation" is...
" but thats exactly how people of color have felt for centuries."
fck off bro, "people of color" have endless nations that look like them. fck off saying they deserve my nation because im a meanie racis
" if you are going to claim america is a white nation that should be ruled exclusively by whites then get rid of all the colored people because you clearly dont represent them. you know, actual genocide."
*ignores that white people are being made into minorities in their own homelands while being less than 20% of the entire world population
WHITES are the minorities, and they are being gen oh cided right in front of me, and you are calling me a bigot from wanting to stop that... if you hate W people just say it out load and stop defending the erasure of my people
"white countries have become great through the exploitation of native peoples and other countries"
laughable nonsense, and implying that everyone else in the world didnt do objectively worse things...
hey remind me who sold slaves to the chewish slave traders in america? oh thats right, other POC... almost like you have no idea what you are talking about, and just seem to hate W people
"throughout history atrocities have made white nations rich"
and what about all the non white nations built on exploitation? ist almost like your entire worldview is anti white and you are willfully denying the atrocities committed by non W people...
"why is sierra leone so impoverished. they have great mineral resources, oh, that were stolen by the british empire."
what fkin weak points... where are the british now? they are gone... why is the place still a hole? because the people that live there make it so... are we gonna pretend Liberia is the white mans fault too?
"even today white nations take advantage of poorer countries"
yeah, if you ignore how non W countries do the same thing..... its almost like you just hate W people
"cape town was uninhabited the same way america was empty when white settlers first got here."
actually less so. there were more natives in the Americas than in cape town. as no one was in cape town... its almost like you have zero functional understanding of world histo
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@jordansenna752 "Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, UAE, and dozens of middle eastern countries have massive oil reserves. The hierarchies in those countries are billionaires, yet they don't share the money with their countries like people in the western world do. The richest people in those countries buy Ferraris for their 16 year olds while most other people are on a scooter or pushing a cart."
What does this have to do with anything im talking about? you realize all of those countries have a central bank right? and its all still apart of the banking cartel right? what does this have to do with Isreal being a terrible ally, or the long term failure WW2 was?
"In America, Germany, France, UK, Italy, Spain, Israel etc. , the middle class has WAY more freedom, and WAY more opportunity"
ANd we are all still subjected to the international finance system with no gold backed currency, unending debt, and an entire debt based economy...
why is your english so bad?
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@jordansenna752 '
"You're stupid, and you're wrong"
LOL great argument
"The top 1% richest people on the planet are white, black, asian, middle eastern, hispanic, christian, muslim, jewish, hindu, buddhist, atheist, male, female"
Thats wrong, and also has NOTHING to do with what im talking about
"Rothschild may be a greedy evil family, but they're just one of many, from all cultures."
Why are you so dishonest?
"You are regarded, have a good day you sad sack"
Your English is abysmal, and you are a coward
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@eggynack "im willfully ignoring evidence contrary to my own interests"
"Immigrant workers increased US GDP by about 1.7 trillion, or 10.7% in 2013. The vast bulk of this gain went to the immigrants themselves. Only 2% went to natives.
For native-born Americans, immigration s major impact is distributional: It lowers the wages of native born workers and raises the income of their employers and other upper income natives who derive disproportionate share of their income from capital gains, stock options and other non-wage income. By increasing the number of workers in the economy, immigration lowers the wages of native born workers. At the same time however native born employers gain from immigration because they can now hire workers at lower wages. Native born consumers also gain , especially the wealthy. Similarly natives who derive most of their income from dividends, capital gains, and other non wage income gain as immigration drives up corporates profits. Immigrations biggest winners then, at least among us natives, are the wealthy, while its biggest losers are disproportionally found among the nations poor and middle class. Clearly immigration exacerbates the economic divide of the have and the have nots. Current levels of over one million legal admissions per year, and defacto amnesty and non enforcement policies that serve to protect those aliens who are here unlawfully are only placing greater economic strain on those citizens who can afford it least. "
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@basilbaby7678 "He gained notoriety for his rowdy polemic speeches against the Treaty of Versailles, rival politicians and especially against Marxists and Js"
In Hitler's mind, communism was a major enemy of Germany, an enemy he often mentions in Mein Kampf. During the trial for his involvement in the Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler claimed that his singular goal was to assist the German government in "fighting Marxism".[117] Marxism, Bolshevism, and communism were interchangeable terms for Hitler as evidenced by their use in Mein Kampf:
"In the years 1913 and 1914 I expressed my opinion for the first time in various circles, some of which are now members of the National Socialist Movement, that the problem of how the future of the German nation can be secured is the problem of how Marxism can be exterminated."
Hitler advocated for "the destruction of Marxism in all its shapes and forms".[119] According to Hitler, Marxism was a Jish strategy to subjugate Germany and the world and saw Marxism as a mental and political form of slavery.[120] From Hitler's vantage point, Bolsheviks existed to serve "Jish international finance".
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@wethegamers870
Where in the pictures shown does it show that Lee had a firearm? I do not see any firearm in the vest.
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/10/12/denver-protest-shooting-photos-full-sequence/
Frame 2634 you can see the grip. the police also recovered TWO firearms as well as a can of mace
Are you trying to say that Matthew shot the gun before Lee EVEN began to spray mace?
yes i literally said that. its visible in the photos that the gun was already fired when the cloud of mace reaches Matthew
Wait, what? I said you can brandish your firearm in self defense, then you said that's not the case after pictures prove that Matthew had his weapon brandished before mace was used, but did NOT shoot util AFTER mace was used.
I said it is sometimes the case where brandishing a weapon can de escalate. what i also said was that is not true in this case, as matthew drew and immediately fired with no attempt to deescalate
"false. he was shot in the face before the mace even gets to matthew... meaning he fired at minimum at the same time..."
Under your logic, it is not self defense to shoot someone who is shooting at you if they have yet to hit you with their bullet. That is what your logic is. Mace was used, then shot was fired. Not vice versa.
No, lee was already dead by the time the could got close to matthew. you can see the photos the casing being ejected from the firearm before the mace gets to matthew. the gun has already been fired, and lee has been shot in the head. this is all visible
Kyle shoots someone unarmed.
right, after being chased, mobbed, had objects hurled at him, and someone behind him fires a weapon into the air...
comparing the above scenario to this one is dishonest at best, and evil and malicious at worst.
Matthew shoots someone spraying mace on him.
he shoots a man he assaulted and who was backing away...
I don't know about you, but Matthew's case there seems more self defense worthy than Kyle.
because you are dishonest person
You seem to have a loose grasp on any sort of criminal justice.
said the guy comparing apples to bananas
You are probably one in the same as democrats who go "They have the same opinion as me, therefore they can NEVER be in the wrong. Because they were killed, it was ALWAYS the wrong of the other person and they WANTED TO DO IT FROM THE BEGINNING". Come on man. Get real."
seems like projection to me dude
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@wethegamers870
Okay I will give you that, in frame 2634, there is a firearm.
yeah, thats why i said it
Now here is what seems SO FUNNY to me. Is that frame 2630 sees Lee looking to the right of the young black male standing there, kind of where lets say Matthew might be. 2631 shows that Matthew is not reaching for neither Lee's gun nor Lee's mace. Seems he is trying to put his hands in front to keep distance away from Lee as Lee is striking him. 2632, you can see no gun, nor in 2630 or 2631. Showing that Matthew likely didn't even know Lee was conceal carrying a firearm. As lee strikes Matthew, you can see the vest starting to open, likely from Matthew starting to retreat his hands back to him. Which he did, right hand first then left.
his hands were on lee before lee struck him? but ok
"yes i literally said that. its visible in the photos that the gun was already fired when the cloud of mace reaches Matthew
"
You just contradicted yourself, I asked if you mean to say that Matthew shot before Lee began to spray. Meaning Matthew shot before Lee put is finger on the mace and STARTED to spray Matthew. You said yes then began to say that the gun was fired AS mace was in there air, which contradicts you saying that you are saying yes. Does not matter again that if the mace reaches Matthew yet or not. He is in distance of it and you just admitted that he shot AFTER Lee started to mace.
i said what i said already a million times. the gun was fired before the mace hit matt. this means he had already pulled his weapon and aimed it before lee sprayed his mace.
"I said it is sometimes the case where brandishing a weapon can de escalate. what i also said was that is not true in this case, as matthew drew and immediately fired with no attempt to deescalate"
That is misrepresented information. Yes, Matthew had to fire after he drew his weapon because Lee decided to mace Matthew. I would bet you $10,000 that if Lee did not mace Matthew, they would both be A. alive and B. not in jail/going to trial.
I bet you the same that if matthew hadnt touched lee, none of this would have happened
I really don't have the strength to read the rest of this. You clearly don't have a coherent argument here. You contradicted yourself once already then said misrepresented information as if Matthew was going to fire whether or not the mace was sprayed.
i have not contradicted myself once. you are clearly not understanding what im typing, or you are a liar...
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@Danb15000 if everyone is something. No one is.
Let me help you
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root gene "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups
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Zel Zars " you never answered"
Yes, yes i did
"
'the question isnt valid because the its a false comparison... Ive already answered everything you asked'
and deflection
''Because comparing an ideology that is the building blocks of a movement to random policy points is a false comparison....''
I dont see why you keep quoting what i said thinking it changes what i said. I explained to you why the comparison was shite, and you ignore it.
"why dont you answer this simple question, buddy?
are you scared?"
I keep answering you and you keep not acknowledging my answer. the problem is with you buddy. You ask for proof, then you ignore it, you ask for more, adn you ignore it. now you ask me a non answerable question based on a false comparison acting like its a gotcha. If a group says they are notzees, most of the people who support it are self avoid "national socialists", and someone tells you the group is a notzee group, would you sit there and act the same way? " Well just because the believe X doesnt make them notzees, because other people believe X"
Why would i be scared of a nitwit who doesnt know what they are talking about
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Zel Zars
You really are a special kinda person arent you...
"why is it so difficult for you to own up to your mistake buddy?
"
I would if i did make a mistake buddy
"did you or did you not wrote this sentence
"
''Any policy pushed out of a group whos entire worldview is based off of Marxism power dynamics is marxist.'
yes or no,bub?
"I literally already told you multiple times. yes i wrote that. i also wrote to you, and explained to you why what you compared it to was a false comparison, but you ignored it anyway and continued to repeat that im not answering your questions...
"everyone else are well aware that youre trying not to answer this simple question."
You mean everyone else "is" well aware? also, ive answered your questions repeatedly. you are just ignoring them...
"thats because,if you answer this simple question,you knew i would DESTROY you!
"
No, it wouldnt, because i answered you multiple times already and you didnt destroy me... i dont think you are capable of destroying anything other than your own credibility
"is that why youre not answering this question?
"
I have answered repeatedly, and you have repeatedly ignored my answers. keep it up dude this is fun...
"a simple yes or no would be suffice
dont be a coward,BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I answered multiples times dude, you are a coward for not addressing it and ignoring it...
Why are you like this? do you get paid to post?
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Zel Zars
"im not defelcting you are deflecting"
uno reverse
fun stuff
"any"
Yeah? and? your insistence on a semantic argument over the word any is very telling of your argumentative tactics. I didnt say EVERY SINGLE POLICY is marxist, i said that things advocated for by marxists are marxist. i posted copy pasted " policies" blm supporters and desires. they are marxist in nature. and you went off on a rambling tangent gotcha escapade about my usage of the term any.
do you think that this argument that YOU wrote
is perfect and contain no error or fallacies whatsoever?
nothing is perfect with no errors or fallices. But what i said isnt wrong. if Marxist says marxist things its marxist . if a marxist says non marxist things, they are still marxist. Your example of proving this statement incorrect was about tariffs. something that isnt inherently marxist. Then i tried to give you the example about adolf and dogs. illustrating that ideological groups can also have policies that arent their ideologies.
youve been dodging answering this question for days,and just when youre about to admit that youre wrong,you went back rambling like a dimwit.
And here you are continuing to deny and deflect that i was correct in calling BLM marxist. and you cant even address it. you keep going on and on and on about your gotcha question and ignore the elephant in the room. You were wrong, you called me misinformed, i provided evidence, you moved goalposts, i provide more, adn you deflect.
You act like spoiled child who has never been told no, and think they are the most intelligent kid in the room and no one dares to shatter your ego
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Zel Zars "now,i want you to use that double digit IQ of yours and think very carefully,which part of
'''"Any policy pushed out of a group whos entire worldview is based off of Marxism power dynamics is marxist.'''
meant that youre saying
'' if Marxist says marxist things its marxist .''
is 'ANY POLICY' equal to 'marxist things'?"
the part where they are marxist and they are promoting things that arent marxist, but they promote it for marxist reasons.... because they are marxist...
i know this is a difficult concept to grasp, but ive been speaking pretty plainly for you, and you are deliberately going out of your way to avoid it.
"BLM is marxist"
I prove this to you using their own words and you continue to deflect
pathetic
"man,youre so deep inside the hole you yourself digged,you cant even see the light,eh,boy?
"
Hey hows those English second language courses helping out bub? you are almost convincing me
imagine being wrong the entire time, and continue to argue like you arent
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Zel Zars "no evidence BLM is marxist"
Except all the evidence i showed you, that you repeatedly deny. But thats ok, its still evidence, and its still true
"you made a fallacious argument(in trying to prove that BLM is marxist) by saying that
' Any policy pushed out of a group whos entire worldview is based off of Marxism power dynamics is marxist. ''
and ive proven to you times and times again that youre wrong about it,but you refused to admit it,because of your lack of education and low english comprehension"
And i explained to you how nothing i said was wrong. I explained how a marxist would promote non marxist ideas because they fit in with there marxist political paradigm. You not understanding that isnt my problem.
"2)all these 'arguments' you made are unrelated to marxism.case
in point,the whole point of marxism is to fight against capitalism,and you failed again and again to provide proof that BLM are fighting capitalism"
Marxism is just fighting capitalism
Big brained take there, good thing its a smooth brain one.
3. you refused to answer any of my questions
No, i didnt, you cant gaslight me like that dude, i can read my own comments to you answering them...
" what has BLM done that is marxist"
i literally already answered that.
leader claims they are
most of them are socialists
the rest of their rhetoric is based on a marxist worldview...
just because you ignore it doesnt mean its not there..
You ignoring the proof doesnt mean it doesnt exist...
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Zel Zars
"all ive been asking,is for you to tell me
1) the ideology/philosophy of marxism that YOU know.
your NONSENSICAL answers consist of
I was explaining to you about that but you explicitly told me you didnt care about the theories and schools of thought in marxism, so i dont see why you demanding it now makes me feel like you are any less dishonest.
"im not asking about how many school of marxism out there.i dont care.what i do care is what YOU know about marxism.youve never answered that from the very beginning!"
I did answer, you are incapable of grasping the idea that i was right the entire time, and spent your entire time arguing with me about semantics to avoid the core of the argument.
Ill try explaining again, and see if you can follow me
Marxism, is the root of a very large tree, this tree includes critical theory, race theory, post modernism, frankfurt school, all ending up with these things bneing pumped into the US education system.
I keep trying to explain things to you , but you arent here to be genuine. you ignore what i say, put words in my mouth, lie, obfuscate, pivot, and insult me...
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Zel Zars
'Marxism, is the root of a very large tree, this tree includes critical theory, race theory, post modernism, frankfurt school, all ending up with these things bneing pumped into the US education system. '
"i dont care about these.
i dont care about how large or widespread the marxism encompassed or how it affected the education system.
all i care about is what exactly did you know about the
PHILOSOPHY and IDEOLOGY
of marxism.
you cant even answer such a simple question!
that just shows that you have ZERO knowledge in what marxism is.
is that why you refused to just list the ideologies of marxist?
is it because you dont know anything about them?
"
Everything i said is accurate. I already told you. the whole end result ideology of marxism is to view everythign in the world through a marxist lens. By viewing everything in an oppressor oppressed mindset, and pushing for the idea of collective over individual. Nothing is about the individual, and all is about the group. its goal is to continually push for revolution.
You seem to be the one with very little knowledge of marxism if you think ignoring the entire tree marxism has grown into, you are literally ignoring what marxism is.
this is my first question
i think this is the root of all the confusion you have.
you have ZERO idea what marxism is,didnt you?
tell me,boy!
can you list me all the principles/world view of marxism?
guess what?
20 messages later,you still havent answered the question.
you always deflect and refused to answer the question by replying
I keep answering you, and you keep telling me " thats not an answer" you cant tell me WHY is tisnt an answer without ignoring/dismissing everything else i stated...
"all of your replies shows that you refused to tell me what exactly did you know about the marxist ideologies.!
all your replies shows that you have no idea how to answer my question!
why?"
Because you say it has nothing to do with marxism doesnt mean it isnt marxism. You seem to think marxism is exclusively and ONLY about finance/capitalism, and the workers of the world uniting. but fail to account for everything else it encompasses... because in your own words, you dont care.
I tell you BLM is marxist, i tell you things they promote that are marxist in origin, you demand more and more, and move the goalposts more and more. If you want more " answers" go ahead and read all i have written and it should answer anything you asked. except it doesnt, because you are a dishonest person who doesnt actually care about what im saying.
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Zel Zars how about i just give you the 10 planks of communism? or how about the 45 goals of communism from 1963? would you like those? sure
Karl Marx's "10 Planks" to seize power and destroy freedom:
1. Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.
2. A Heavy Progressive or Graduated Income Tax.
3. Abolition of All Rights of Inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the Property of All Emigrants and Rebels.
5. Centralization of Credit in the Hands of the State, by Means of a National Bank with State Capital and an Exclusive Monopoly.
6. Centralization of the Means of Communication and Transport in the Hands of the State.
7. Extension of Factories and Instruments of Production Owned by the State, the Bringing Into Cultivation of Waste Lands, and the Improvement of the Soil Generally in Accordance with a Common Plan.
8. Equal Liability of All to Labor. Establishment of Industrial Armies, Especially for Agriculture.
9. Combination of Agriculture with Manufacturing Industries; Gradual Abolition of the Distinction Between Town and Country by a More Equable Distribution of the Population over the Country.
10. Free Education for All Children in Public Schools. Abolition of Children's Factory Labor in it's Present Form. Combination of Education with Industrial Production.
THE 45 COMMUNIST GOALS AS READ INTO THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, 1963
CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use [“]united force[“] to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court
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@stelifant
well thats a lengthy reply
Poor Countries
gadaffi was trying to establish a gold backed currency to escape the global financial cartel , so thats why he was axed
"So even therefore it is nessecary that we fight to free Assange and get the Warcrimes to the courthouse."
good luck
"China and Russia
The problem in China is, that the leader lack vastly of understanding the problem. They still think they have to "controll" their citicen instead of taking advantage of critic"
uhh the problem with china is the overbearing authoritarian state, social credit scores, and endless propaganda...
"A healty society HAS to grow from critic."
you mean criticism?
they still have capitalism, money and poor systems of sharing the values .
so what is " capitalism" to you
Europe:
the probaganda makes people believe, that communism means dictatorship. Even thou a real communism cannot exist in a dictatorship. Because communism means shared economy by all (not just by gouvernment or military).
You cant have communism without government oversight... that was my point which i havent seen anything remotely close to a response about
"which all work thogehter for a moneyless system in the inside but like buisness as usual in the outside, it could get a real secound power which is difficult to attac by military power."
How do you accumulate power and wealth without a currency? you are talking nonsense and most of what you wrote is empty words that arent answering anything i asked
"As long as they can build up added value and collect this value to let the system grow, and as long as the system inside are build up wisely (so uncorruptable as possible) it could work"
wtf VALUE are you talking about? you cant just be vague and not grasp why people think your ideology is nonsense
USA, Australia, Canada and Japan
You should not open a buisness unless you have enough money to survive some Jears and you need a really good concept and know about all the laws, regulations and finacial circumstances.
yeah if only this massive government wasnt in the way for the little guy to make a living...
"In my opinion it is more important, to have a very clear vision how it could work in this changed economy."
Nothing in anything you have said thus far is a clear vision of how anything works
If you interessted i can tell you my solution to a stable system without money and might. But thats a whole post worth :).
I literally asked you to explain those very things and you just rambled
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@stelifant "i understood the question wrong"
Ok
you mean criticism?"
Yes.
so what is " capitalism" to you"
Well, capital is something you put somewhere inside, and get more outside of it.
That is a strange and not helpful explanation, but "capitol" is just liquid assets. " investing" being " put money in get more money out" isnt a really helpful response...
"So capitalism in a finacial system is one, where you can put money somewhere inside, and you will get more out of it."
Yeah this is also not helpful at describing anything at all... The entire world works on the principal of put something in, get something out.
"The China economy is still based on that principle"
Money?
"So acutally ownership here give you added value. More equals more."
Still not making sense
"How do you accumulate power and wealth without a currency? you are talking nonsense and most of what you wrote is empty words that arent answering anything i asked"
As i tried to say, the cooperatives can work as usual outside of the network, which means you can produce and sell stuff for money to people outside of the system (cooperation).
So how do you do that in a system without money???
"So you CAN accumulate added value from the different cooperatives and use that value to let the system grow."
You mean reinvesting profits into a business? amazing, how does one do this without MONEY
"possiblity for all to descide (exapample in votings) where to put the money next to increase the system."
Cool direct democracy for everything in a business is a great way to implode it... So unless your little co op is under 10 people and all experts in the same feilds, you arent going to have a voting system that works well for the business
Now to the main Question, i hope i answer the question right that time.
"won't go in the details how the single parts can work. I leave that to your imgination"
then why even bother ???
"Inistead imagine by yourselfe, how we can implement all parts i will tell you here, in a way that the system as whole could function. If you then see problems in your imagination, which you can't solve by yourselfe, i happy to answer you such specific questions."
"explain how X works"
"well i cant explain it really, youll have to use your imagination to figure parts out
-_-
"The first question is, what is the limitation for the production of goods for the humanity?"
Why is this even a question in the first place?
"Sometimes people think, that work defines the limitation, but since we had the industrial revolution, the performance of the humanity is nearly endless."
Loos definitions of " work" and " performance" but i think the overall point is using machines we can multiply the effect of human labor, sure that follows
"If we look to the current world, money is mostly the limitation for production."
You know because labor, resources, and time are not infinite, has very little to do with money
"If we look from outside to the world, we probably would understand easily, that the limitation has to be the regrowth of the nature. We can get as much as the nature gives us, i see that as the true limitation"
WTF does " nature" have to do with this discussion other than a source for resources...
To this ressources i count:
Land (in different usages)
Rawmaterial of all kind
Pollutants of all kind
I would define that as contingent of ressources
contrare to that it should give a contingent of value. This will represent all contingent of ressources as a value."
You cant just account for everything and price fix accordingly, thats not how any of this works This is how famines begin dude
"everyone gets the same amount of contingent of value. No one has from birth the right to consume more of the wealth from the nature."
Value changes, wealth changes, and money is never static, but lets just force everyone to be exactly equal... there could be NO negative side effects of this happening.........
"The prices of the goods now reflects the ressources used to produce the respective good."
No, it actually doesnt. it still requires more work to refine, gather, or manipulate some resources than others therefore denoting differing value. The amount of work going in changes the value. two chairs made by two people will be vastly different. one is a simple ugly stationary chair, and the other is a comfortable rocking chair, and both used the same amount of materials. are both chairs the same value? of course they arent.
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@stelifant pt2
"All means of production are the property of all people, including all ressources (exept land, i don't believe we can "own" land or nature, that's weird in my opinion. But we certainly can use it with high respect to the nature.).
Even if that were the case, some would do better than others with the same handouts, therefore they should be worth more, but in your system they are valued the same as they hold the same base value of the resources used to create or build it...
"All products are available for the society and can be payed with the personal contingent of value."
You mean money? currency? the thing we have been using for thousands of years, that you now seem to think we can function in a society without because reasons that you claim require imaginative use of problem solving? wow.....
"As soon as you pay a product, it will be yours and the payed contingent of value desolves."
so the money you use to buy a good stops having value after you buy goods with it? wtf is the point? why would the seller agree to take something that becomes worthless after he takes it
"Personal goods can't be selled again for contingent of value. That will bring market back in place and start the hole madness again."
WTF are you eve saying here? i know english isnt your primary language but wtf are you talking about? If everyone owns everything than whatever you own is personal goods...
"Instead you can give it away or exchange it privatly for other goods."
So bartering without money? ok, but that still means items can hold differing values
"This has a big advantage, it kills corruption on a high level."
And this is why communism always turns into authoritarian dictatorships with millions of bodies... you can pretend that this solves corruption but this is clearly gommunism not accounting for human behavior like i said...
There won't be hidden interests because of money. Sure there will be still interests, example to get a high reputation to have more chance to get a partner and stuff like that. But it will be far less damaging for the society."
You cant have money not exist, and exist in the same system dude
"Also it separates Work from the economy. We can do that easily today because we have in fact far to much workers nowaday"
You mean massive population growth, endless immigration and work visas has lead to an over abundance of labor cratering the value of work? wow ya dont say, maybe we can fix those problems instead of just hopping down to communism...
"Hereby all knowledge and progress is shared among all people."
????????? wtf are you talking about?????
So far it sounds very centralised
it is, and no amount of mental gymnastics will change that fact
"what is gouvernment?
It's a bunch of people who get elected from the society to do some tasks.
Here i would strongly recomend, to implement something like a grass root democracy."
So mob rule? yeah, sure, and what happens when the have nots vote for more stuff than the haves? again, communism doesnt factor human interaction and views all humans as blank slate individual cogs that can be molded into any shape seen fit...
"For sure, over all Systems, Structures, Calculations and the coordination of the economy, there have to be votings by all people of a society."
"lets have a direct democracy for every action of this hyper centralized massive system... nothing will eve go wrong... This will unironically never work, as you have clearly never tried to get 100 people to agree on anything at all
"And lastly there has to be the possibility, to demand votings througth the people, if example they collect enought signatures in a certain amout of time."
So is everyone making decisions, or is there a group of party members who are elected to make decisions? sounds liek an authotarian system run by mob rule to me, no thanks...
"The two things, take away hidden interests and give the people direct access to descisions over the structures, makes a direct link between the people and the power and therefore desolves the power in the people."
You unironically talk like someone who has never had to do hard labor or has worked any cooperate environment
"to much centralisation don't makes sense, because the different local circumstances and cultures cannot be considered in centralised structures.
Therefore it makes sense to establish a subidiaritarian economic system.
so instead of replacing or changing the system you want to effectively create any number of separate nationstates in any given location as y our solution
"I suggest here the following things:
Generally all coordinations are done in the higher structures but all organisations and the layout of the economy will be done in the lower structures."
You are literally describing a hierarchical power system, therefore creating unequal power, thus leading to the same circumstances as before
"So coordination is top to bottom (with descisions bottom to top = votings) but organisation and design of the economy are done bottom to top."
This sounds like it would never work on face value, and would still be an authoritarian state, just " voted on by the people"
" local self-sufficiency"
Literally the only words out of this entire wall of text that i agree with, and its only because i chopped up your comment using it..
"All workers and renters will organise and design the factories and houses they live and work in."
This isnt going to work because most people are not architects, electricians, logistics technicians, or construction workers. again, you are pretending that all humans are equal blanks slates that are suited for any job
"All local communities descide koordinates the houses, factories, contingents of ressources and everything inside of the local community. Exept all things which concern the broader community."
Same answer as above local communities already try to do that, but this pesky voting for positions of power thing doesnt work when fraud and corruption take place
"Computers can't be produced from local communities so their production has to be coordinated in the higher level."
Again, totally lacking any understanding of how anything in the world works, and think you can re engineer society top down to make it work better... its a laughable assumption and you sound like you are under 18
"well, most probably the people will descide over a system how the ressources will be shared among the lower level localities and for all the statewiede companies, otherwise you will get to much votings :D."
Great endless voting. that will never go wrong and there will never be fraud, besides, how can uneducated and low iq people supposed to have the same manner of influence on the small number of epople who know wtf they are doing? this is either going to end up as a nother soviet union, or speedrun to idiocracy where they "vote" to water plants with Gatorade and start to starve to death
also
"its not about who votes but who counts the votes"
"In that way a subsidiary system is guaranteed. We can have both at the same time, a worldwide responsible system AND decentralized power."
????? nothing in anything you said illustrates how this would even become a thing... you were essentially like, here's points a b and c, and here is how wormholes work, just use your imagination to fill in the blanks!"
"A further way to give the local communities possibilities to descide over their culture is, to give them a little control over the amout of contingent of value the single person gets"
wtf does culture have to do with this? also i guess we can all just change the value of anything whenever we want??
"Example they can reward outstanding performances from people or even social skills like being helpful and so on. "
so some people will do things differently and get different outcomes, and therefore different rewards and this system of different rewards is somehow different from the system we have now because you changed words and pretend direct democracy worked out?
"The possibilities for local communities to build up their own and a fitting culture gets limitless that way."
WTF are you talking about culture?
I hope that will give a broad overview ;).
honestly no, and i feel like you said less than before, using more words...
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@stelifant
"Therefore just try to understand the basic principles of the system i'm telling you about. Then, if you understand the concept you can start to search for problems in the concept."
Look im not asking complex questions, just asking for logical consistency.
"I have solutions for all problems i came across so far but it would take thousands of sides to write them all down."
Because you say so much while meaning so little. you use broad vague terminology and ideas, but dont fully flesh them out at all. those arent solutions, those are daydreams...
"It won't have money but it will have contingents. It is nessecary to understand that this are 2 compleatly different things. And you need to understand that "the seller" as well as "the producer" will be the society as whole and therefore the products are not owned by a person untill somebody uses his contingent of value to get it."
This doesnt make sense. what is a " contingant" if not translation of a promissory note for other goods or labor?
"i know a lot about "the factor human", i know about human interaction and i already gave solutions in my post"
And my replies were you not thinking certain things through with anything you said previously.
"A system won't work, because humans CAN make dumb stuff in it!"
If you focus on that not a single system can't work in your imagination and you won't be able to make any progress to a peacful, intelligent and free society."
Look, we cant have that, because we dont have a free society, and most people are not very smart.
"It feels like you missunderstood every sentence because you try to understand the vision throught your glasses of the existing systems."
That, or you are not thinking logically about your new imagined system because thinking critically about it will start to pick it apart, like i was doing
"If you just write "wtf" after every sentence i can't give you any vision because you won't accept to make imaginations which are needed to make visions."
You are talking like you can alter reality by willing it so...
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@guillermoelnino
part 1
Arthur O Sulzberger Jr. – Chairman & Publisher
Arthur O Sulzberger Jr. is Chairman and Publisher of the New York Times. Arthur O Sulzberger Jr. is ✡. According to JPost, a ✡ news publication, the Sulzbergers are a ✡ family
Michael Golden – Vice Chairman
Michael Golden is Vice Chairman of the New York Times. Michael Golden is ✡. Michael Golden is the father of Hays Golden , who is also on the New York Times’ board of directors , and the son of Ruth Sulzberger Holmberg, who is the sister of Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, who was ✡.
Arthur Greg Sulzberger – Deputy Publisher
Arthur Greg Sulzberger is Deputy Publisher of the New York Times. Arthur Greg Sulzberger is Jewish. Arthur Gregg is the son of Arthur O Sulzberger Jr , whose father, Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, was the New York Times publisher before him. [16]. According to JPost, a ✡ news publication, the Sulzbergers are a ✡ family
Mark Thompson – President & CEO
Mark Thompson is the President and CEO of the New York Times. Mark Thompson’s wife is ✡. The Independent has confirmed that his Thompson’s wife, Jane Blumberg, is ✡. The ✡ Voice of NY has likewise confirmed
Joseph Kahn – Managing Editor
Joseph Kahn is the Managing Editor of the New York Times. Joseph Kahn is ✡. Joseph Kahn is the son of Leo Kahn, a co-founder of Staples Inc. who was ✡, according to the ✡Telegraphic Agency.
Meredith Kopit Levin - Executive Vice President, Chief Operating Officer
Meredith Kopit Levin is Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of the New York Times. Meredith Kopit Levin is ✡ . Meredith’s husband, Jason Levin , has stated, "I am ✡ . I had my bar mitzvah in Israel.”
James Bennet – Lead Editor, Editorial Page
James Bennet is the Lead Editor for the Editorial Page of the New York Times. James Bennet is ✡. Rocky Mountain News has confirmed that James Bennet is the brother of politician Michael Bennet who is also ✡.. James and Michael are the sons of Susanne Klejman Wed to D. J. Bennet Jr. The publication US News has likewise confirmed that James’ and Michaels’ mother was Polish-✡ .. Several publications have likewise confirmed that Michael Bennet is ✡, including ✡Virtual Library the ✡publication JWeekly, and the Israeli-based newspaper Times of Israel.
David Perpich – President & General Manager, The Wirecutter
David Perpich is President and General Manager of the New York Times’ The Wirecutter. David Perpich is . Perpich was married in a ✡wedding ceremony performed by Rabbi Harvey J. Winokur. Perpich is the newphew of current New York Times publisher, Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.
Rebecca Blumenstein – Deputy Managing Editor
Rebecca Blumenstein is Deputy Managing Editor of the New York Times. Rebecca Blumenstein is ✡. Joanna Barsh and Johanna Lavoie write in their book, “Centered Leadership”, that Rebeccae Blumenstein’s family moved to Essexville, Michigan, where Rebacca as the “only ✡ kid in her fourth grade.”. Rebecca and her husband Paul’s life stories have been featured in The ✡Chronicle..
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@guillermoelnino
part 2
Paul Walborsky – Senior Vice President, NYT Global
Paul Walborsky is Senior Vice President, NYT Global. Paul Walborsky is ✡. Walborsky was married to Liann Schottenstein in a Jewish wedding performed by Rabbi Aaron M. Petuchowski.. Paul and Liann have donated to the Addison-Penzak JCC of Silicon Valley, a ✡or organization.. Paul and Liann are also donors to JValley (The ✡Federation of Silicon Valley).
Nick Rockwell - Executive Vice President & Chief Technology Officer
Nick Rockwell is an Executive Vice President and the Chief Technology Officer for the New York Times.. It is unclear whether or not Nick is ✡. However, nick’s sister Alexandra is married to David Kissinger, who is ✡
*SECTION 2: NYT Bureau Chiefs*
Elisabeth Bumiller – Washington D.C. Bureau Chief
Elisabeth Bumiller is the Washington D.C. Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Elisabeth Bumiller is ✡. Bumiller was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony performed by Rabbi Harold White..
Adam Nagourney – Los Angeles Bureau Chief
Adam Nagourney is the Los Angeles Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Adam Nagourney is ✡ . Adam is the son of Herert Nagourney and brother of Eric Nagourney who was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony Rabbi Burt Aaron Siegel at Adam Nagourney’s house.. Adam Nagourney is also listed as a ✡ American journalist on Wikipedia. .
Steven Erlanger – London Bureau Chief
Steven Erlanger is the London Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Steven Erlanger is ✡ . Erlanger, the New York Times’ former Jerusalem bureau chief.. According to JPost, a ✡ newspaper, the last several Jerusalem Bureau Chiefs, including Steven Erlander, are ✡ ..
Alissa Rubin – Paris Bureau Chief
Alissa Rubin is the Paris Bureau Chief for the New York Times. Alissa Rubin is ✡. Among other things, the funeral for Robert Castor, father of Enid Rubin and grandfather of Alissa Rubin, was held at Frank E. Campbell, which the Times of Israel states is a ✡funeral home..
Jason Horowitz – Rome Bureau Chief
Jason Horowitz is the NYT’s Rome Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Jason Horowitz is ✡. Horowitz has written about his Passover celebrations in Italy and has described himself as “an Ashenazi New Yorker.”
Alison Smale – Berlin Bureau Chief
Alison Smale is the Berlin Bureau Chief for the New York Times. Alison Smale is ✡. Smale is married to Russian pianist-composer Sergei Dreznin , who is ✡ according to NPR. .
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@guillermoelnino
part 4
Michael Gordon – Chief Military Correspondent
Michael Gordon is the Chief Military Correspondent for the New York Times.. Michael Gordon is ✡. Michael Gordon is the son of former news executive Matthew Gordon and Antonia Gordon. . Michael Gordon’s grandmother (Matthew Gordon’s mother), Ida Gordo, was buried at Beth David Cemetery which is a ✡ cemetery.
Andrew Ross Sorkin – Chief M&A Correspondent
Andrew Ross Sorkin is the Chief M&A Correspondent for the New York Times. . Andrew Ross is ✡. Sorkin appeared on United ✡ Appeal (UJA)-Federation of New York’s 2013 list of 40 under 40 top “movers and shakers” in the ✡ community.. With regard to his ✡, Sorkin stated as follows: “I am [✡]! A Christmas loving ✡! We did Chanukah last night and we will again tonight and the night after….”.
Liz Alderman – Chief European Business Correspondent
Liz Alderman is the Chief European Business Correspondent for the New York Times. Liz Alderman is ✡ . The ✡ publication JWeekly has confirmed that Alderman is ✡.
*SECTION 4: NYT Leading Editors*
Jonathan Weisman – Deputy Washington Editor
Jonathan Weisman is the Deputy Washington Editor of the New York Times.. Jonathan Weisman is ✡. Weisman has described himself as a “✡ journalist” and referred to “my ✡ faith.”. Weisman was also highlighted as a ✡ journalist in a report issued by the Anti-Defamation League.
Susan Chira – Assistant Managing Editor
Susan Chira is Assistant Managing Editor of the New York Times. Susan Chira is Jewish. Chira was married to in a ✡ wedding ceremony performed by Rabbi Julie Gordon. The Columbia Student News Outlet, Bwog, has written about Susan’s son doing “Torah reading” as well as both her son and daughter have their Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah, respectively, in Lerner. Chira has often covered ✡ issues throughout her course of employment at the Times. ].
Jake Silverstein – Editor-in-Chief, NYT Magazine
Jake Silverstein is the Editor-in-Chief for New York Times Magazine.. Jake Silverstein is Jewish. Jake’s father is the poet Murray Silverstein, who writes poetry related to ✡ identity.. Jake Silverstein is friends on Facebook with his father Murray Silverstein who has uploaded pictures of his family wearing kippas.. Jakes life story has been reported on by ✡ Business News.
Deborah Neddleman – Editor-in-chief, NYT Style Magazine
Deborah Needleman is Editor-in-chief for New York Times Style Magazine.. Deborh Needleman is ✡, as confirmed by Clutch. Deborah Needleman is married to Jacob Weisberg who is also ✡, as confirmed by the New York Times, which stated that Jacob’s brother Joseph “Weisberg came to New York in 1997 by way of Chicago, where he grew up in a liberal ✡home.”.
Jodi Rudoren - Editorial Director, NYT Global
Jodi Rudoren is Editorial Director for NYT Global.. Jodi Rudoren is Jewish. According to JPost, a ✡ newspaper, Rudoren is ✡ and has a “background…as a ✡.” . Rudoren is the former New York Times Jerusalem Bureau Chief. The ✡ journalist Varda Epstein, on her blog dedicated to Israel, has also stated that Rudoren is ✡ . According to Haaretz, an Israeli-based Jewish newspaper, Judi’s husband Gary Rudorun is also Jewish and brought his “✡ , New York humor with him to Jerusalem.” .
Ellen Pollock – Editor-in-chief, Business Day
Ellen Pollock is the Editor-in-chief of the New York Times’ Business Day.. Ellen Pollock is ✡. Ellen Pollock was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony to her husband, Barry Meier who has discussed his parents efforts to flee from NS Germany in the 1930s..
Jennifer Steinhauer – Editor of Live Journalism/D.C
Jennifer Steinhauer is the Editor of Live Journalism/D.C for the New York Times.. Jennifer Steinhauer is ✡. Steinhauer has confirmed on Twitter that she is ✡.. Jennifer was most recently the Lead Congressional Reporter for the New York Times..
Ari Isaacman Bevacqua - Director, Corporate Communications
Ari Isaacman Bevacqua (née Astles) is the Director of Corporate Communications for the New York Times. Ari Isaacman Bevacqua is ✡. Ari was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony performed by Rabbi Deborah Reichmann at Washington’s Sixth & I Historic Synagogue..
Sam Tanenhaus – Editor-in-chief, NYT Book Review
Sam Tanenhaus previously the Editor-in-chief of the New York Times’ Book Review, but he has since left the Times.. Sam Tanenhaus is ✡. Sam Tanenhaus’s mother is Gussie Tennanhaus, sister is Beth Tanenhaus Winsten, and brother is Michael Tanenhaus. Michael Tanenhaus is the Budget & Finance Chair of Temple Solel, a Jewish Synogogue a fact also confirmed by the Washington ✡ Times..
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@guillermoelnino
part 5
*SECTION 5: NYT Correspondents & Reporters*
Maggie Haberman – White House Correspondent
Maggie Haberman is a White House Correspondent for the New York Times. Maggie Haberman is ✡. The Forward, a ✡ publication, has confirmed that Haberman is ✡..
Binyamin Applebaum - Washington Correspondent
Binyamin Applebaum is a Washington Correspondent for the New York Times.. Binyamin Applebaum is ✡. Applebaum attended the Maimonides School, a ✡ day school.. Applebaum has written about his time at Maimonides.
Dana Goldstein – National Correspondent
Dana Goldstein is a National Correspondent for the New York Times. Dana Goldstein is ✡. Own Goldstein’s own website, she has written about her “✡ upbringing,” being raised as a “Conservative-movement ✡ ,” and attending “Hebrew school.” .
Sam Roberts – Urban Affairs Correspondent
Sam Roberts is an Urban Affairs Correspondent for the New York Times. Sam Roberts is ✡. Sam’s son, Michael, was married in a ✡ wedding performed by Rabbi Erica Greenbaum. . Roberts has written on ✡ themes in his work..
David Sanger – National Security Correspondent
David Sanger is the National Security Correspondent for the New York Times.. David Sanger is ✡. David’s grandfather is Elliott M. Sanger a co-founder of WQXR, who was ✡ and was a part of the American ✡ Committee.. Elliot interviewed Iphigene Ochs Sulzberger for the American ✡ Committee and “asker her about ✡ stuff.”.
Isabel Kershner – Correspondent
Isabel Kershner is a Correspondent for the New York Times.. Isabel Kershner is Jewish. Kershner has been described as a "✡ Israeli".. Kershner is married to Hirsch Goodman, who is also ✡.
Samuel Freedman – Columnist
Samuel Freedman is a Columnist for the New York Times.. Samuel Freedman is ✡ . Freedman was named one of the “Forward Fifty" most important American ✡ in the year 2000 by The Forward, a weekly ✡ newspaper.. Freedman is a board member of the ✡ Book Council and for several years was a regular columnist on American ✡ issues for the Jerusalem Post.
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@guillermoelnino
part 6
Judith Shuleveitz – Columnist
Judith Shulevitz is a Columnist for the New York Times.. Judith Shulevitz is ✡ . The ✡ Journal has written about Judith Shulevitz’s ✡ writings and her “own ✡ experiences.”. Shulevitz has spoken with NPR about her ✡ and her observance of the ✡ Sabbath..
Ron Lieber – Columnist, Your Money
Ron Lieber is the Columnist for the New York Times’ column, Your Money.. Ron Lieber is ✡. Ron Lieber is “a reform ✡.” Ron Lieber is married to Jodi Kantor, and the two have made personal announcements regarding their wedding.
Jim Rutenberg – Media Columnist
Jim Rutenberg is a Media Columnist for the New York Times.. Jim Rutenberg is ✡ . Rutenberg’s mother is Barbara Ritter Rutenberg ,rents buried were at Mount Lebanon Cemetery , a ✡ cemetery. Rutenberg has written about being a ✡ journalist. .
Eric Lipton – Investigative Reporter
Eric Lipton is an Investigative Reporter for the New York Times.. Eric Lipton is ✡ . Lipton was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony, as announced by the ✡ Exponent, a ✡ publication.
Adam Goldman - National Security Reporter
Adam Goldman is a National Security Reporter for the New York Times. Adam Goldman is ✡ . Goldman lived in Israel for a number of years before returning to US. On Facebook Goldman ‘likes’ Gan Shalom ✡ preschool which is a ✡ preschool.
Benjamin Weiser – Federal Courts Reporter
Benjamin Weiser is a Federal Courts Reporter for the New York Times.. Benjamin Weiser is ✡. The Forward, a ✡ publication, has confirmed that Weiser is ✡..
Jess Silver-Greenberg - Business Reporter
Jess Silver-Greenberg is a Business Reporter for the New York Times.. Jess Silver-Greenberg is ✡. Silver-Greenberg has made light of her oft-✡last names, referring to herself as “✡-✡.”
Robin Pogrebin – Culture Reporter
Robin Pogrebin is a Culture Reporter for the New York Times. Robin Pogrebin is ✡. Robin’s mother, Letty Cottin Pogrebin, is also a journalist and has written that both she and Robin are ✡. .
Barry Meier – Investigative Reporter
Barry Meier is an Investigative Reporter for the New York Times.. Barry Meier is ✡. Barry was married in a ✡wedding ceremony to his wife, Ellen Pollock.. Barry has discussed his parents efforts to flee from NS Germany in the 1930s..
Matthew Schneier – Styles Reporter
Matthew Schneier is a Styles Reporter for the New York Times. Matthew Schneier is ✡. Schneier has confirmed that he is ✡ on Twitter, discussing his “✡ upbringing.”
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@deutschlanddeutschland7111 Yeah i have, oddly enough, there are still guns there even though they are banned^tm
"it'd take you so much effort to just get a gun, by the time you got one you forgot about the crime you wanted to commit"
That is by far the dumbest thing i have ever read in the history of gun control nonsense... congratulations dude
In what way would you think someone intent on committing a terrorist attack would be dissuaded by simple " laws" murder, and violent acts are already illegal, what makes you think they will car about silly gun laws? do you know what gun laws do? they create a black market that buy default covers a wide range of weapons considering how strict they are. and on top of that, they can be smuggles at a cost, so all you are doing is creating a cost barrier, and artificially inflating a black market (which profit regardless of laws in place btw)
"And then the police takes away your gun and puts you in jail just for that. Easy. "
HAHAHAHAHH i take that back, this is the dumbest thing youve said =)
How will they know you have it if its bought on the black market? (pro tip, they dont)
"I never have to worry about anything because I know nobody has a gun anyway."
Congrats, there are people near you all the time with guns and you just assume they dont because a law is in place....
Guns arent the problem, crime and people are the problem, removing guns just causes violence to be sorted out in other ways, it doesnt remove violence, just changes the course of it...
besides, if you remove gang related gun homicides, that huge scary number drops to something you would see in Nordic countries... funny that
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@amiesports
" this is just how you see it. grenades are just as illegal as guns btw. so are fireworks and other explosives."
Yeah and? people still get them, just illegally... now riddle me this, how would one see a gun in self defense if he is seen as a criminal regardless?
personal opinion being dangerous freedom over safe slavery?
sure bud, lock in your own shackles and have the government take are of you...
" rather live long being restricted in some way, as we in fact all are from birth anyways(slavery??!) then die of an insane mans bullet."
LOL its funny, because you seem to think people are shot randomly all the time, yet when i bring up terror attacks in your own country they barely blip your radar.
Its not even real safety dude, its the illusion of safety. you are under the delusion that these laws are keeping you safe, when they are clearly doing no such thing.
"Edit: (sidenote) all weapons that resourced terrorist attacks came from Russia."
Imma just dismiss this because it sounds like a lame copout... weapons are sourced inside european nations from multitudes of places, also the manufacturing of untraceable homemade firearms are in circulation as well... simply banning things doesnt make them go away, it just obscures them from the light of day...
"If they maybe banned their weapon trades victims weren't as high."
This is entirely speculation based on nothing. if every single nation in the world banned all guns, you wouldnt get rid of guns at all... thinking this is so flawed
"The explosive bags were home made so you do have a point. they'll kill you with a stick if they want to rly."
Yeah so why would we want the good law abiding citizens to be disarmed when criminals can arm themselves with whatever they want to?
nothing you are saying makes any sense
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@waylonmercy1533
"case counts don’t matter."
They absolutely DO matter when they are used as the foundation of draconian mandates, but OK...
"We are talking about deaths. And I’m saying death counts are as air tight as you would say they’re air tight for heart disease, cancer, pneumonia etc. "
Sure they are bud, sure
"And I didn’t say you said doctors are invented people and saying they’re dying. I said you have to be saying that cause the “doctors putting Covid on the death certificate when it’s not COVID” argument is debunked by the 500k excess total deaths from all causes figure.
Its like you arent even listening ... " deboonked' yeah sure bud, im sure the terminal stage 4 cancer patient died totally because of covid, or the guy who was killed in a motorcycle crash, or any other example of " air tight" deaths... you dont look into anything and you just regurgitate what is said to you like a good lemming. you cant even fathom the difference between " died OF covid" and " died WITH covid"
"The only conspiracy theory you have left is to claim doctors are inventing people that don’t exist. When I said that I figured you’d know your argument was debunked by that 500k figure."
No, its clear you have no idea what you are actually trying to tell me because it makes zero sense and relies solely on you not understanding what im trying to say to you.
"This is elementary deductive reasoning. If an average of 2.8 million people die a year from 2015-2019. And then 3.3 million die in 2020."
Uh huh sure, im totally sure all those records are squeaky clean and there is no book cooking to keep up the façade. Im sure you have faith in world wide numbers being accurate, but i dont
"Doctors can’t be doing what you’re describing on grand scale if there were 500k excess total deaths in 2020"
This doesnt do anything to prove they couldnt have done this...
"If they were the 500k figure would mean any overcounted Covid deaths are being offset by undercounted Covid deaths. For example in April 2020. Pneumonia and flu deaths spiked in that month. "
Where did pneumonia deaths spike in april? more data from the same CDC that flipped flopped from January of last year to today?
"We know a lot of those were Covid deaths because flu and pneumonia doesn’t spike in April."
Yea just like we know its covid from a pcr test?
"Tell me how doctors can be misclassifying Covid deaths on a grand scale when all other causes of death were up 90k in 2020?"
I did tell you , you just keep telling me it isnt real, didnt happen, has been deboonked, and only recite the establishment lines to defend your point without doing any actual research into it yourself. youll just call me a liar
"How can they be doing this when there was the largest spike in total deaths from 2019-2020 in the US in a hundred years?"
Very easily with a nation filled with people like you.
"How can they be doing this if the death rate jumped 17% in one year? In short if doctors were doing what you’re saying there wouldn’t be 3.3 million dead people in the US in 2029. There would be 2.9 million at most.
What the hell are you even trying to say here? we arent in 2029?
"And btw “incentives” aka a motive to lie." Is not evidence a lie occurred. It’s just you projecting. It’s you saying you would lie and do shit like that
this is not a lie, YOU are a liar... Its literally right out in the open for you to look at, but if its not coming from the CDC you wont believe anything apparently. You tell me its a lie, but then you also tell me that it isnt evidence of a lie? do you just like listening to yourself talk?
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@waylonmercy1533
"I said “as air tight as other causes of death” since other causes are not air tight thats me literally saying it’s not air tight. But other causes are not either so you really don’t have a point."
so then why did you dismiss what i said about non covid deaths being labeled as covid deaths?
"First thing dishonest people do is accuse the other side of being dishonest the moment their dishonesty is brought to light.
Prime example right now. Why the fuck are we even talking about this? If I said Covid was air tight I’ve already explained that’s not what I meant. You’re making a moot Point to distract away from the main point that you don’t have an explanation for the 500k excess deaths."
This entire paragraph is solid projection... 500k deaths is the talking point YOU brought up, and keep demanding i "explain" these deaths... Im arguing that the DATA ITSELF is defective, so YOUR point of " 500k excess deaths" is a meaningless talking point, as it has nothing to do with what im talking about... but im sure you knew that.....
"and not I don’t you do in point of fact."
What??????
"You’re a conspiracy theorist."
Lol first off, a meaningless term, mostly used to discredit outright, and conflate with lunacy to make it seem crazy... im sure next thing youll do is compare it to flat earth.... oh wait...
"the establishment say the earth is the shape of a sphere so you must not believe the earth is the shape of a sphere then because that’s what they’re saying?"
Seems you already did that....
"That’s a problem. You also think you know more than the massive majority of doctors."
No, i dont, but please tell me more about what i know and dont know
"Thats good evidence of low intelligence"
Projection
"You’re making claims you have no evidence for"
Everything i have said can be looked into independently, but please, go on and tell me how you totally didnt just dismiss what i said because you want to be spoon fed?
"Explain these 500k excess deaths. If you don’t in your next reply. That means you’re wrong"
Why am i trying to explain something i never said? My explanation is everything you have been ignoring, that the data is faulty. how am i suppose to " explain 500k" excess deaths? what sort of answer do you require that i havent already stated?
what is your deal man?
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@waylonmercy1533
Heart attacks would be down because you say they’re being called Covid deaths."
"you say" Its almost like you are incapable of being honest when conversing...
"We didn’t just get obese in a year. Lmfao your ass has no understanding of statistics and a natural progression."
And you have a lack of understanding of the English language with how often you put words in my mouth and deliberately misrepresent what i say, but ad-homs arent really important here...
"Were we not an obese country in 2019 but were in 2020? Lmfao"
Oh yeah i totally said that, and or that can totally be implied by what i did say in an honest and genuine manner...
"Your argument make no sense"
Probably because you either dont understand what im saying, or you are deliberately misunderstanding it...
"You say they’re misattributing Covid deaths."
Yes, this part i did say
"If they were doing that there wouldn’t have been 500k excess total deaths from all causes"
Yeah no, that doesnt really follow...
"Heart attack deaths, strokes, diabetes, would all be down."
No they wouldnt? why would they be down?
"Yet they’re up. You’re literally saying Covid is taking from those death totals are WAYYYY UP. When you subtract from a number t goes down not up. So if you’re subtracting from heart attack deaths how are heart attack deaths way up in an unnatural way? It’s not a natural progression."
First off, this entire hypothetical is based off of the understanding that the numbers given to us are accurate, which i have pointed out they are not.
"People didn’t just get obese in one year. That’s incredibly stupid to think that. Dude you’re just not a very smart person. You’re suffering from the Dunning/Kruger effect so you can’t tell that you’re not a very smart person. "
Yeah crazy how i totally said that and TOTALLY wasnt implying that having a large aging unhealthy population is TOTALLY in NO WAY going to result in higher than average deaths. Hey you think that maybe suicides deaths of despair, alcohol deaths, medical mistreatments and other effects of lockdowns may have contributed to the death rate? you think throwing covid patients in nursing homes might bump up some numbers?
Why do you insist on being so dishonest with every reply? each soaked with arrogance and a pompous attitude, sprinkled in with ad-homs..
"Ya people the population were obese in 2020 but not 2019, 2018,2017. They just got fat in 2020"
Yeah this is probably your saddest excuse for a strawman ive seen yet... and you STILL pretend to be honest...
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@waylonmercy1533
"a normal increase is what’s occurred over the last 100 years prior to 2020."
Ok, but in infinite number of things has happened in a hundred years for any increase to be considered normal...
"So why wasn’t there a normal death increase? Offer and explanation. Not an assertion."
What are you talking about? im literally disagreeing with the data being presented, and the idea of wha ta " normal" death increase is, and you want me to answer a question inside those parameters that i dont even agree with? why? Nothing i have said has ever sufficiently satisfied your questions since we started this conversation..
"You know all of this is easily explained by Covid 19. Actually makes sense"
Sure it does a virus so dangerous and so deadly you have to lock the world down for a year, force everyone to wear masks and vet a vax foe something that has a fatality rate of less than .05%? so deadly that you have to shut down discussion and place warming labels on youtube videos? and the establishment is so legit that when professionals who disagree with the narrative come out, they are silenced. But ok listen and believe, trust the same people who have spend decades lying to the public, because they cant lie ALL the time right?
How are total death numbers inaccurate?
I already answered this and explained it above. you are free to research the topics yourself, but its clear from your attitude you will do no such thing..
Why did an aging and obese population not cause deaths to spike in the 10 years prior to 2020.
Because not everyone dies at the same time? because we have had an exponentially increasing population for over 50 years?
"Jesus Christ you’re dumb. I think there might be something mentally wrong with you. If so I apologize"
Honestly, GFYS, you have such un earned arrogance, and an attitude that needs a reality check
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@waylonmercy1533
"none of that is an explanation btw. Those are assertions with no explanatory power. "
Because i disagree with the basis of the terms used in the question, no answer i ever give will satisfy you
"are you saying"
No, im not, stop doing that its dishonest and irritating
"Why did our population increase so much in 2020 and not 15,16,17,18, or 19?"
Again, i disagree with the basis of the terms used in the question, no answer i ever give will satisfy you. The government cant even accurately track illegal immigrants or welfare fraud, and you expect them to have accurate and useful population data? No answer i give to your questions will satisfy you
"You said people don’t die at the same time then Why did so many more people die in 2020 and not in 15,16,17,18 or 19?"
"you said"
No i didnt, and stop... ffs
"And it’s a 2-3% death rate not .5%."
Pretty sure its not, but whatever you say man
"Why are you arguing statistics when you don’t have a basic understanding?"
The same reason you are arguing here and repeating yourself? lack of understanding?
"you’re displaying great differences between between a skeptical scientific mindset and a paranoid conspiracy theorists mindset"
No im not, but sure
"YouTube censoring certain things one can logically conclude they’re censoring misinformation"
Lmfao and why would one logically assume that? its a laughable assumption
"While the conspiracy theorist would jump to the illogical conclusion that they’re “censoring the truth”. There is no logical reason to come to that conclusion"
there is no reason? how is there no reason?
"Paranoid people like you see evidence where none exists"
So you see what i see? interesting... can you read my mind too? this is such a laughable assertion
"YouTube censoring or not is evidence absolutely nothing."
Its evidence of youtube censoring things
"And this is where education comes into play. You need to learn what good evidence is and what is not."
Ok, well you can trust your authority all you want. the government, media, pharma and medical industry have never lied to protect self interests ever...
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@waylonmercy1533
"Dishonest dodging of the question. Yes. A new cause of death or something unpredictable. A terrorist attack pehams. All of these things cause excess deaths. IIf I would asked this question i could easily answer it."
how is it dishonest? i disagree with the numbers so asking me for evidence of causes of excess death is a meaningless question because i disagree with the terms IN said question ... the only thing dishonest here is you
"your saying"
Again, what part of stop this shit is so hard for you to grasp? are you doing this shit intentionally for a rise out of people in youtube comment sections?
"So why this year and not years past?
I gave you " assumptions" and you didnt like them, now you are asking me the same question over and over again because you already disqualified anything id say as an answer...
Which is why I know total deaths don't jump like they did and unless something catastrophic happens.
i disagree with " a jump" because i disagree with the total death counts, and i disagree with anything that comes out of the CDC or faucis mouth.
"YOu're jumping to conclusions that don't logically follow. Like thinking youtube censoring people is evidence of anything. It's factually not."
except when its a pattern of behavior exhibited by youtube and other large media outlets for YEARS, but i guess that doesnt happen.
"Occams Razor and I have no evidence to assume otherwise."
so occams razor huh? which side of " the government is probably lying" side of that razor?
"But you've provided no evidence of any of your claims so far."
Because im going to be lazier than you, and tell you you can easily search up any single thing i said in thie comment chain, but YOU STILL HAVENT because you are dishonest.. but i dont care really, this is more entertainment than education
"Its not about Trust. Its about critical thought., weighing the odds, viewing the evidence and applying occams razor"
Yeah, and im doing that pretty well, turns out assuming the government, the media, pharmaceutical/healthcare industries, and establishment talking heads have an agenda, and that they usually lie about it until they get caught later...
"So I'm still waiting on you to give me an explanation for the historic spike in total deaths in 2020. Mine is Covid19 and pandemic related deaths"
And mine was a multitude of things you just dismissed as assumptions, i guess the bit about the old folks homes whizzed right over your head
"I've not the numbers and data to back me up"
debatable
"Lets go over the evidence so far. We have 500k Excess deaths"
again, debatable
"Covid explains this"
Or maybe, its just a flu thats slightly worse than the flu, like weve had before, where there is an out of the ordinary death rate, and people with preexisting conditions, elderly, or unwell were worse off than healthy young people? maybe " 500k excess deaths" isnt actually 500k excess deaths and its a statistical talking point that you have not been able to stop repeating regardless of any argument against the validity of the numbers in question...
"You don't have an explanation for this but to assert "immigration, people suddenly got fat, people suddenly got old."
No, immigration was a point on how unable the government is at doing simple jobs, the old and fat is a point to how old and fat people are unwell and getting sick doesnt help?
"These things you claim didn't happen in previous years but coincidentally happened during a year a pandemic was said to be occurring. Its amazing that these "conspirators" knew deaths were going to sky rocket in 2020. Absolutely amazing. "
Its like you are incapable of understanding what im trying to say to you... truly amazing.. i guess instead of a slightly worse than average flu season its a super scary new virus that we have to cripple the economy, propagandize the population into arbitrary guidelines and mandates (that politicians, talking heads type people ignore them when not on public camera) while pushing new untested vaxs from companies who have been caught doing terrible things ( J&J with the talc years ago)
"We have all this data and evidence from across the country."
Who is this "we"? the inept government?
But some random guy who doesn't understand basic addition and subtraction on youtube debunked all of it by going "nuhhh uhh fake".
Imagine being this much of a dishonest fck you continue to throw petty insults like some child... You can strut around pretending to be the intellectual superior here, but its clearly an act
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@waylonmercy1533
you really are a piece of work.....
"so to sum up your reply. Nuhhh uhhh establishment. Nuhhhbuhhh numbers are wrong"
You know there were other words involved there right? like i was making coherent points and you were ignoring them and asking the same question i just answered
"But you’re being dishonest and are not telling me how the numbers are wrong?"
no, i said plenty, YOU are being dishonest and disregarding everything i said because you are a dishonest person who clearly has some issues they need to deal with
"There’s only one way they could be wrong. And that’s if they’re inventing deaths that did not happen and doctors across the country are in on this scheme"
Or, the numbers are wrong and the government lies to you...
"Then you say you’re not claiming that. Ok then you’re saying the total deaths numbers are correct than cause that’s the only way the could be wrong?"
Yes i literally said this multiple times, yet you seem to be incapable of actually comprehending what i wrote...
"So what is it? Mr honesty who can’t answer simple questions?"
Buddy ive answered every single question you asked, YOU are the one disregarding the answers and asking teh same question over and over again while constantly misrepresenting what i say and putting words in my mouth, all while insulting me repeatedly ... and you expect to be taken seriously??
"And I’m not a moron like you"
Wow such massive intellect here
You’re saying total death numbers are wrong. But they’re not inventing deaths cause you said over and over you’re not claiming that. So that would mean they’re undercounting total deaths. But that would mean the historical spike in deaths is even worse.
you keep referring to " historical spike" like it means anything if the numbers in question are junk... but you dont actually care...
"My 5 year old could say “they’re inaccurate” over and over. It literally takes no thought or intelligence to say this. So how are they inaccurate."
Learn to read, and read what i wrote. this is a stupid fcking game you keep playing
"And I’m not a simpleton like you I don’t just “trust the establishment” like you trust random conspiracy theorists."
Right, you are a pseduo intellectual who regurgitates establishment talking points pretending to be some massive big brain, while ignoring the near infinite times the government and establishment lie regularly, while you take everything they say at face value, while simultaneously never looking into anything that runs contrary to the establishment narrative..
"I weigh the odds"
Poorly apparently...
"Either doctors across the country, 3000 county health boards, state health departments abd the cdc are all involved in a conspiracy to invent people that didn’t exist and then say they died"
Or, normal deaths have been pushed into the " excess deaths " category, or any of the other things i pointed out that you have done zero research into and just dimiss as lies outright...
"They manage to do all this and remain completely silent"
Except the doctors and physicians who were calling out the lies over the entire year who were silenced by big tech and the establishment...
"Or the numbers are correct. That’s not blind Trust. That’s Occam’s razor"
" the government is lying" or " the government is telling the truth this time dispite lying all teh time previously"
Occams razor tells me not to assume the government ISNT lying... YOU have blind trust in the establishment
"You however want me to blindly trust you when you scream “that’s a lie” over and over."
No im not, im expecting you to look into what i said, learn how to read, learn how to COMPREHEND what is read, and look into this stuff yourself, instead of listening to the establishment..
you are such an arrogant person, that i cant actually believe you are here in good faith
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@Alternity666 "It isn't. I'm not gonna write ten thousand paragraphs to explain why, you're going to have to do your own research."
Lol ok, so dont bother explaining your point, just tell me to look it up. classy
"At the beginning of the conversation you were not ready to concede that it was possible to hack these car, and then you changed your mind because there was information you were lacking, and you still are."
No, i said you arent going to hack tesla and remote control random peoples teslas by changing some software tesla hides behind a paywall. I never said you cant hack them
tl;dr if you want to buy a Tesla, you need to do your own research, like when you buy anything. People who buy things blindly get fucked with any companies, Apple, Tesla, or any other it doesn't matter, in 2020 you have to be informed.
lol so your response to shady scummy business practices is " just dont buy it if you dont like it"?
wow, all that, and you top it off with " current year" as a point.... laughable
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@Alternity666
"Teslas were made to be FSD cars and you need a network for that, it's really that simple."
No?
"You don't want a car on a network? Don't give your money to Tesla."
Or, getting a tesla and jailbreaking it, and locking out tesla, but you dont want people to be able to do that because of your doomsday scenario that wouldnt exist if the always on network wasnt in place in the first place
"You're speaking like they are hiding that fact, but they are not, in fact, the FSD is the selling point of these cars and yet you act like it is not. There's really no other point to make. FSD car needs to be on a network to use neural network training with data from every cars, they are made for that exact purpose, no other purpose."
it doesnt NEED to be always on connected to a singular network... that is the point im trying to make. dealer or t hird party updates, the only thing it would need always connected would be GPS location, but you dont NEED a singular tesla network for that
"Any modification to these cars can lead to hacking, therefore it is not authorized, it is really not complicated. If you want to use a Tesla outside of their network and have all the capabilities, ask Elon to make another version of the car that is completely FSD-less. Make a petition or something idk, but it doesn't change the facts of the current cars."
Ok other than the fact that one could in fact remove the vehicles ability to self drive, but that goes against your no mods thing...
OP still stands, Hacking a Tesla is much more dangerous than hacking an Apple device, so I'm not sure where you want to go with this.
Re enabling features disables remotely, or getting simmilar software flashes cheaper than dealer pricing isnt dangerous...Not sure why you keep going with your doomsday scenario like its guaranteed to happen because some guy turns on some features that tesla later disabled remotely because he bought the car used...
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@TheHammerofDissidence " it's about exercising sovereignty over your own body"
so only the mothers body matters not the unborn childs body?
"It's the same reason why vaccine mandates should be opposed"
so the gov forcing you to have a shot is the same as you choosing to delete an infant? im not seeing the correlation here.....
"We can argue all day and night about what constitutes murder regarding abortion"
not really, a life is a life, you can pretend otherwise
"but allowing the state to have any power over your body is idiotic"
how the fck is the state saying " you cant delete people" rights over bodily autonomy whilst at the same time pretending the unborn has no bodily autonomy?
"So instead of codifing your morality, maybe conservatives should try changing the culture so that people voluntarily choose to not get abortions."
you mean like promoting self responsibility, telling woman to not ride the cck carousel through their 20's and that they shouldnt have "relations"if they arent ready for children? kinda hard to do that when you have a " get out of responsibility free" card
"But we all know conservatives can't conservative anything because they do stupid shit like moral policing, just like the progressive left."
yeah its almost like the fuddys from the 90s were fcking right about literally everything they complained about... but yeah, they just are like the left
you do know that the financial institutions, media conglomerates , Hollywood, major industry, tech, and the courts as well as all of academia is filled to the brim with leftism right?
you grasp what the slippery slope was right?
but you are right., "conservatives" have conserved nothing
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@SweatyFatGuy
"how many vehicles are you flipping and how fast?"
Doesnt matter, my state disallows the practice (cannot flip for profit)
"I can sell a car for a profit. I can't sell cars as a dealer"
Ok? and?
"I build muscle cars and 4x4 trucks for fun. I am not running a business, I simply like to do things with vehicles and sometimes sell one."
Thats really wonderful and all, but the whole point of this comment thread was about the government not allowing others to build wealth ( i want to have a business, but cannot afford it, and doing business outside of state sanctioned places or with certain paperwork, its illegal... which was the point
"If my crippled ass can do it and remain legal, and not get the VA pissed off at me, you probably can too"
You and i are literally talking about two totally different things.......
"hey want their taxes, which is why you are supposed to get a dealer license if you are flipping cars, or a fuel permit if you make vodka fuel like I do. "
government wants their hands in everything
Thats my point, why does the government have monopoly on who can and cant make money?
"If I make fuel and use it on site, no taxes are required to be paid."
And once more, if you wanted to sell it, the government would not allow it without dancing though hoops and giving them a cut... this is a racket if i have ever seen one....
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Gonzo Kaporal
"I did, you simply cannot read. They strike these words because some case couldn't be treated under the previous law.
"
Yes, before, you could only abort late term if it was
“substantially and irredeemably” harmful to the mother
and now it is for
"any medical reason"
before: only if its harmful to the mother
After: For whatever reason
"Am no lawyer,"
Obviously
"but from what I understand, it doesn't make the law "more vague", it broadens it to account for new medical procedures."
vague
adjective
of uncertain, indefinite, or unclear character or meaning.
broad
adjective
covering a large number and wide scope of subjects or areas.
So you are basically saying changing the law from a specific to a broad case isnt making the law more vague? is " any medical reason" not a vague case? How is broadening somethings scope not in fact making it more ill defined and less specific? you know, like how i was saying the whole time?
"And again, you're an Antisemite and an idiot.
Those are not insults just cold hard facts.
Get an Education.
"
Oy vey lets not point out coincidences
And again with the insults
"Btw, I thought Republicans hated Government regulations ?!?
So what's up with that hypocrisy ?"
What hypocrisy? Adding more legislation to alter previous legislation making it more broad and ill defined is hypocritical if i want small government?
also nice strawman there, but lets look passed it, i wont hold it against you.
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Gonzo Kaporal
"This law gives more authority to the Doctors and less to the Government.
"
Yes the same doctors that have no legal binding to the oath. these same class of people who over prescribe drugs in a giant racket with insurance companies. the same group of people who think mutilation of your genitals is an appropriate treatment for a mental disorder....
"You’re against it, you want the government to apply more regulations.
"
or, ya know, stop aborting children, and stop using tax dollars to fund abortions
"How’s that a straw-man exactly ?
The hypocrisy is blatant, haha !!!
"
You created a caricature of a republican, and then slapped it onto me, and then insulted me for it, if thats not a straw man, im using the wrong word
"Am surprised you can use a Dictionary, but you’re right Vague and Broad are indeed 2 different words with different definitions !
"
Now you are just being pedantic to avoid pointing out that broadening a law is in fact making it more vague.....
"Anyway, AGAIN : a women whose fetus will be born without kidneys or lungs,"
Again, a very specific and rare example, much like the one asked by Todd gilbert
"or suffers from any other malformation or genetic disease that will cause him to not be viable at birth shouldn’t have to carry her pregnancy to term.Do you understand that ? Or should I repeat it AGAIN ?
This is not an imminent threat, the pregnancy could be carried, but the baby would inevitably die after birth."
Again, what of these cannot be detected before the third trimester? Can you think of any? or is that example to silly for you?
"As I already said many disease cannot be diagnosed at early stage of a pregnancy.
"
such as?
"That’s why they change the Law.
Do you understand ENGLISH ?!?"
Then why not include language such as
" allowed if the fetus will be non viable to term"
or
"if the fetus will be irreparably harmed due to malformation or disease"
or
"If conditions arise where as the fetus and or the mother will be irreparably harmed by malformation or disease"
you know, a very limited carefully worded stipulation that meets your requirements for abortion without being vague and ill defined in a simple way.....
Do you understand english? If so, i would expect you to understand the specific importance of wording in law.....
maybe if you turned down the smug you could actually understand my point.... but you wont, and you'll probably just insult me....
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@AdamJMGamesDev
You not liking the outcome of these specific points I've made doesn't make them false.
you arent making a point, you are just telling me what you googled to satisfy your own preconceived notions. You literally even said to google it
"wow thata a totally non baised way to find information....."
Not sure why you're choosing to write this way, it's weird. Also asking someone to google the point I just made isn't biased if it is already the outcome of several studies done.
no it actually is pretty baised... you can get a study to say whaveter you want if you control the parameters and funding so realistically its meaningless, more so coming from vox...
"are you dense or intentionally being naive? Do you see " diversity" being pushed in cina or cambodia? what about south korea? africa? why is this diversity garbage only in white majority nations, while slowly turning them into white minority nations.."
This is so ridiculous, why are people not allowed to move around?
Why are you deflecting and not answering the question?
"Why should people be locked into a place that isn't where they want to move, people want to travel, explore and start families, to trade and do business, to start companies and grow teams to create products etc. This has always been the case and is not "new". "
Why is it that this is only concentrated in white majority nations? why even have borders at all? are you one of those borders are just imaginary lines types of people? because thats pretty antithetical to the concept of a nation...
"Researchers have found currency, antiques, clothes and even literal remains of people from different continents all over the globe. Looking at human history from an anthropological and historical viewpoint as well as a factual view, this has always been the case. Humans have always mixed and travelled. People make out as though the last century has been this massive demographic shift when it is simply not true in the limited sense they portray. "
It literally is and you are being dishonest... 95% white to less than 60% white in the US in less than 50 years and this is supposed to be normal? Its not.. people moving around doesnt negate the existence of groups and nations...
"Also, again, you literally do see people from China and Cambodia intermixing with other groups, do you know anything of West Indian history? What do you think a diaspora is?"
Again you are avoiding my questions. im not arguing against the existence of intermixing, im pointing out that all this is anti white in nature and is only happening in white majority countries. You are being dishonest and deflecting
"Do you see " diversity" being pushed in cina or cambodia? what about south korea? africa?"
The answer to this question is yes across multiple fronts.
you are a dishonest liar... pointing out immigration doesnt negate the demographic changes taking place in white nations, you are dishonest and deflecting again..
"Africa is a massive continent housing so many different people, customs and lifestyles. As aforementioned there are activists fighting for their rights and ability to express themselves across the world. What you are implying is that this is only happening in "white majority nations" which is not the case at all."
It literally is... you dont see massive demographic shifts in ANY nation outside white nations, and the chinese invading large chunks of africa... nothing you are saying is illustrating how im wrong, its a numbers game
"What do you think colonialism was? The transatlantic slave trade etc. People literally forcing their way into other places via literal militaristic force, committing war crimes and robbing places of their resources, wealth and literal people."
Oh look more deflection and avoiding my points. great work
Lmao. If you don't like the idea of people interacting in a global sense, then you're going to keep being upset about lots of human history
wow look how totally not dishonest you are being and how totally not deflecting from my points you are
"You care so much about this idea of being turned into a minority, it has not happened yet and is something that you seem to be so fearful of."
Im literally explaining to you the process that is happening right in front of my eyes, and has been happening for literally decades, and you are sitting there and teling me its not happening... get real man, "white" are already a global minority, yet in the places they are majority, they are becoming a minority and you have zero issues with that? pretty anti white of you dude, id say you are almost europhobic...
"You have yet to provide anything other than right wing feelings talking points."
You have done nothing to even address my points, and you deflect... wow what a shock
"You are wrong, you are incorrect, you are unable to back up any claims"
Im literally describing to you reality and you are telling me it doesnt exist while simultaneously not addressing anything i said... shocker
"Lmao what are you talking about, racist rhetoric and sentiments against white immigrants are real in many senses, it exists in many forms of xenophobia too mainly but if you know the history of Irish/Polish immigration/interactions with powers like England etc or the US. You realise that there exist many issues here too. Hence my mentioning of how people used to differentiate themselves on a nationalist basis with the specificity being used to put some people above others even though we both classify many groups as "white" today. Whiteness is political and social. People utilise this rhetoric the same way signs used to say "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" on buildings. I don't ignore any of this, why would I? It goes to prove a lot about many different societies, that whiteness as a construct is malleable and in essence is something a group can "buy into" in a social sense when accepted by the in-group to serve a certain role in society as well as these things changing via political power and agreements made between countries etc.
more deflection of my point
thanks, i guess all flavors of white people no matter how there are differences between them can just all become minorities in their home countries as well as minorities in the US all at the same time while being massivly outnumbered by every other group on the planet, because this is totally normal...
"an entire system that benefits non whites, in white countries, over native whites, and you seem to think its ok because reasons" this is such a mess lmao. Systems like affirmative action for example exist to help aid people in combating centuries worth of literal racist policy in various fields.
it destroys meritocracy in favor of Marxist identity politics and this is a good thing? or is this a revenge on le ebil whitey so its ok do discriminate?
"The sooner we break down the issues regarding the past the sooner we can continue to grow toward a brighter future for all."
Yeah like punishing whites and denying problems that happen because racism and colonialism, so lets make them minorities in their own homelands, that will show them how ebil and racist they are....
"If defense budget spending was injected into social issues, healthcare, housing, welfare and community development as well as education and water/heat/electricity/internet access/stability as specific "rights". A lot could be done that'd benefit so many people."
this is such idealist pie in the sky garbage that lacks understanding of how money is actually spent... you do realize that the us government spends more on welfare programs than military funding every year? we keep spending billions and billions on everything you just mentioned and nothing comes of it... government is the problem, more government spending isnt going to fix it.
"Also, again what we consider "white" today differs than in parts of last century and eras prior to that."
What difference does that make if they are all made minorities in their nations? what difference does it make when they are drowned out by the literal masses of the rest of the world?
"Also, your attempt to posit non-whites as non-native, there are lineages of non-white people who have been born, raised, who lived and died in the US for hundreds of years"
Again the massive deflection of my overall point... whites in majority white nations are being made minorities in their own homelands and calling this out makes me racist somehow
"I see what you're doing. It is not anywhere near as simple as you think."
You keep getting lost in the weeds to avoid my iron clad point
white are becoming minorities all over the world in all of their own nations and im not allowed to talk about it because its supposed to be normal
do white deserve to exist or not? if they do, why insist on making them minorities all over the world?
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@jswets5007 "What a blissful thought, that doesn't require one to think too much."
imagine being you
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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@Betta66
ugh
"If killing someone is justified if it's in self defense, then it must also be the case that aborting a baby is justified for the sake of a medical emergency, yes?
Sure, in the vast minority of cases this is the case... and also why there are exceptions.
"And indeed, the Alabama abortion law says exceptions would be made to the ban in cases where it prevents a serious health risk to the mother. However, women can still get abortions and those who have appointments can still go forward with the procedure.
The difference is that abortion doctors would be charged with a felony for performing (or even attempting) the procedure."
No, this is incorrect. please show me in the law where it says this
"Oh, also, you know comprehensive sex education? The thing that's been proven to help lower teen pregnancy rates, which is the kind of thing for which someone would want to get an abortion?"
so we need the state to teach kids instead of parents. got it
"Alabama doesn't have that, which explains why it has some of the highest teen pregnancy and STI rates in the country. Senator Tom Whatley introduced a sex education bill just last year, and it would've been good for the state to have if it didn't die."
Again, why have we fallen so far as a people that we now need the government to teach people how sex, pregnancy and spreading of disease... If only parents could do their jobs...
"He reintroduced it last month, and it passed the state Senate, but what does it say about Alabama's priorities that they signed into law a bill that makes it a felony to perform abortions before signing into law a bill that would've solved a contributing factor to abortion?"
i mean you could cite the law...
"Also, another reason for women getting abortions is that they can't afford to raise a child."
then dont have sex
"Alabama is the sixth poorest state in the country with over 800,000 residents living below the poverty line. That's 17.2%, compared to the national average of 14%."
That sucks, doesnt mean you cant raise and care for children
"So basically, what Alabama is doing is telling women "You can't get rid of an unwanted child you can't afford to raise if you don't want your doctor to get charged with a felony. You can take birth control or have your partner use a condom, but birth control pills might not work if you're also taking antibiotics and condoms have to be used properly to avoid breaking. Oh, but you wouldn't know any of that since we don't make comprehensive sex ed mandatory. But hey, maybe we'll make an exception if your life literally depends on it. Good luck."
"
No, what YOU are saying is, women have no control over their lives and need the government to handhold them through their entire lives so they dont have to own up to the responsibility of the actions they have taken.... i cant imagine how this would backfire...
Seems like kind of a mixed message is all I'm saying.
Seems like you are arguing against a caricature because you dont want to have a legitimate discussion, because you are a smug ideologue
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@Betta66
Thought you were pullin my leg when they compared the holocaust to abortions, so i looked up the full text of the bill myself, and there it was.
2. I agree that parents should talk to their kids about sex, but expecting parents to know everything about every topic is unrealistic.
No, thats a copout... understanding sex and disease is so fucking easy today that there is no excuse for not looking these things up..
3. The one from last year was Alabama SB 269, and the one from last month was Alabama SB 140.
Ok? i mean you could have linked the relevant bills but ok
4. "No, what YOU are saying is, women have no control over their lives and need the government to handhold them through their entire lives so they don't have to own up to the responsibility of the actions they have taken.... i cant imagine how this would backfire...
"
"I'm not advocating for government handholding. It's easy to say women shouldn't have sex if they don't want to get pregnant, and that's true, but what I'm advocating is that women not be stigmatized into keeping an unwanted child. "
This is LITERALLY advocating for not wanting to deal with the consequences of their actions.....
"If you don't approve of abortion, no one is forcing you to get one. And besides, don't conservatives go on and on about how they won't stand for liberals telling them what to do or whatever? Like, your whole thing with the mainstream media is that they try to tell people what to think. How the hell is forcing pro-life legislation onto everyone (when you yourself will never be personally affected by it) any better than "government handholding"?"
because murder is illegal and this isnt an argument anyone is having right now? like, how is " you cant murder unborn children" " telling people what to do" in any meaningful distinction from telling people they cant murder people?
5. "You are arguing against a caricature because you don't want to have a legitimate discussion, because you are a smug ideologue."
"You took the words right out of my mouth.
"
P R O J E C T I O N
"The use ..... any other substance or device with the intent to terminate the pregnancy ........... The term does not include these activities if done with the intent to save the life or preserve the health of an unborn child, remove a dead unborn child, to deliver the unborn child prematurely to avoid a serious health risk to the unborn child's mother, or to preserve the health of her unborn child. The term does not include a procedure or act to terminate the pregnancy of a woman with an ectopic pregnancy, nor does it include the procedure or act to terminate the pregnancy of a woman when the unborn child has a lethal anomaly"
Interesting that they made a whole lot of exceptions but excluded rape and incest. Suppose an incest and rape exception is also made, would this not be a much better bill?
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@Betta66
"That's kind of what I've been saying forever, but clearly having quick and easy access to all of human information hasn't stopped anyone, as evidenced by the fact that some people think windmills cause cancer."
cool, so does that make me less wrong? no...
https://legiscan.com/AL/bill/SB269/2018
https://legiscan.com/AL/bill/SB140/2019
I mean i found them on my own, but thanks
"No, that's advocating for minding your own damn business. If someone got lung cancer from secondhand smoke, would you tell them they shouldn't get treatment because they need to deal with the consequences of their actions?"
Getting lung cancer from smoking and getting treatment because lung cancer will kill you is the same as killing an unborn infant because you dont want them? not even close to the same thing familam...
"I shouldn't have to explain this to someone who thinks fetuses can talk."
What? so because a fetus cant talk means it isnt taking a life? kind of a retarded argument, but aight
"PROJECTION"
"Yes, that's exactly what you were doing."
" "
"All of this just falls under things that qualify as health risks to the unborn child and/or the unborn child's mother. If an exception was made for rape, then it would at least be a more consistent bill because rape and health risks are beyond a person's control. Incest, though? By your own words, people should deal with the consequences of their actions. Unless a woman got raped by her uncle or something, I would suspect you would still disapprove of her decision to get an abortion."
I mean my default assumption that incest isnt something done intentionally if it isnt rape. (IE they didnt know, seperated families and whatnot) but yeah, sounds like theres a hint of agreement somewhere? or at the very least an understanding that theres some consistency with my opinions?
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@Alex_Plante
Yes, humans are tribal, but we also have the ability to be transactional, and in large modern cities we tend to operate in a transactional, not a tribal mode.
So when groups of people self segregate, which they tend to do, you end up with cliques of those with similarities, i mean sweden has literal no go zones at this point, so forgive me if i disregard
Cultures and mannerism are learned from parents and peers from an early age.
So in it of itself, culture and mannerisms are genetic, because of the nature of their exposure and learned behavior being related to those that are around them, eventually leading to self segregated areas
As to the IQ gap, I suspect that pre-natal and infant nutrition as well as priming in school are major factors.
And yet the gap still exists in the US after decades of affirmative action and school programs... we are literally changing standards in schools for diversity and such nonesense
The kind of multiple choice questions asked on IQ tests are not natural, and you need to be primed at an early age to successfully respond to those types of tests.
Primed for an IQ test? there isnt " success" or " passing" an IQ test, its to evaluate your level of intelligence... " some people just dont know how to take this test" is a cop out and doesnt explain anything
Also in impoverished nations many people are both physically and mentally stunted by malnutrition and disease.
And yet, in the US with all the programs we have, the gap has yet to change... nothing we have done in the last 60 years have done much, and this isnt talking about impoverished countries, and even if it were, why would importing thousands of thousands of these types of people going to help the country? how is importing an entire underclass going to be good for them? how will this be good for the country they leave behind? how will this help the people already here?
If we go back to recent evolution of humans, and we take Europeans as an example, most evolution in the past 10 000 years have involved things related to nutrition and disease, such as evolving the ability to continue to digest lactose into adulthood, or our pale skin that evolved when switched from eating a fat and blubber-rich diet rich in vitamin D to a largely starch-based diet as we adopted agriculture, requiring us to generate vitamin D in our skin, and other things of that nature.
So what you are saying is, because of the environment a specific ethnic/racial group historically have been exposed to, had curtailed and helped carve the evolutionary path they were set upon is unique and different than other groups of people?
Stands to reason that dumping people who dont belong into this environment will not do them very well long term
Any evolution of temperament or of cognitive ability would have to be subtle or minor because you are dealing with a complex machinery common to all humans.
And like every other animal on the planet, there are different sub groups with different abilities, and this will lead do some sub groups excelling at certain things and others with other things....
Mashing them all together isnt going to help anyone
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@InfernosReaper
"Yes, calling you out on your bullshit is peak irony"
No dude, the ironic part is your first comment to me was the exact thing you complained to me about calling you out for... You complained about the VERY thing you did without the tiniest hint of self awareness... pretty funny
"Anyway, there's a huge difference between the necessary minimum of military the US needs for defense and the bullshit bloated level of military the US has going on now."
Sure, you can cut some military spending, but pretending that military spending holds a candle to welfare spending you are fighting a losing battle
"The US makes the terrorists it fights with its dumbass foreign policy(seriously, you know the policy is shit when the likes of Saddam and Gaddafi are better for the region than what you've done to it)."
Yeah its crazy its almost like the MIC does whatever it wants as long as it benefits a certain group who have overwhelming influence in American politics. Not to mention proxy wars with othe countries, drugs, oil, and regime changes for the international banking cartel
"Meanwhile, illegal immigrants and drugs flood into the country en masse without much opposition, while the infrastructure crumbles to ruin"
Yeah its crazy how no one does anything to stop it... its almost like no one in the country has control over its government
"Seriously, bro, look at this shit objectively with all the facts at hand.'
I am, the US spends almost 3x the military budget on welfare and social programs, so cutting it compliantly will do very little, and that the person i replied to doesn't grasp the difference between the discretionary spending budget and the mandatory spending budget
then you came in
"This is not how the most powerful nation on the planet should be operating. The priorities are all kinds of out of whack here."
Yeah again, its almost like the citizens of said nations are no longer in control, and do the bidding of a certain tribe of people behind the international banking cartel... its crazy
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@robertstan9733
"do you believe that less regulation will allow more companies to grow into entities to rival the current megacorps?"
If the government and buisnesss environment werent inculcated with decades of corruption of huge corps meddling with regulatory bodies and tax codes, yeah, small businesses would be able to be more sustainable, leaving more of a market share taken away from the huge multinationals. Yes, if government stopped suffocating small businesses we wouldnt need top down control over the huge businesses ( spoiler, it wont work, they just lobby) the little guy cant lobby, so he always gets the short end of the stick.
"In a climate where everyone buys out their competition?"
Yeah? and? whats going to stop that? laws through a lobbied congress? surely you jest.
Imagine if the laws against that were to disappear (because there are certain laws against that, although the US has slowly hollowed them out over the last 40 years).
Laws against what? the things that happen anyway regardless of legal theater?
Or will it accelerate the growth of said megacorps, since they have the funds to buy out any competition if it was allowed.
Why are you talking like this isnt allowed? how do you think they got so big? its a never ending feedback loop, and your solution is more of it?
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@robertstan9733
"I just don't agree with the idea that removing government from the equation is going to be effective. I gave you examples of how your idea would lead to a negative feedback loop."
And i explained that at the opposite end of the spectrum, like what we have to deal with now. How would i start a large Ecommerce site if i need to pay untold dollars in taxes, fees, and licensing etc, etc, etc. Want to flip cars for money? nope, the state dictates how many you can sell, how much you are allowed to do, and where and how you sell. ( on top of taking a cut of everything) while bigger names, or those more corrupt would make due by skirting local laws and taxes, while the little guy gets screwed by the arbitrary hoops set forth by government ( with the help of the corrupt)
Remove regulations because government cannot be trusted ---> the largest corporations benefit the most ----> they buy out competition ----> even less opportunity for competition
government decides to add regulations in an industry ---> the largest corporations lobby exempt themselves from said regulations, or set forth loopholes so they get away with less than full compliance because they have teams of lawyers and paid politicians ---> there is no competition to buy ---> large corps make record profits
"I get your point that the relationship between business and politics lead in part to the current situation. I agree.
But realistically speaking , Who else has the power and funds to even begin making demands of the corporate oligarchy?"
Thats entirely the problem. the only thing that would fix it is more freedom of the little guy to do what needs to be done without being stepped on by the state
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@legobro8753 let me help you learn something today
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people, an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
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@craigedwards2411
By all means, please do more reading, more research into topics never hurt anyone, unless you get too attached to your worldview
"Do you really think that civilians with few guns are a match for the power of the state?"
Yes, there are FAR more weapons in civilian hands than there are military arms, and even fewer to BE armed. Its a numbers game.
"I personally think it is a bit crazy that guns are just treated like a normal thing. Those are items designed for one purpose in mind: to kill as many people as quickly as possible."
Yes, and? Im sure the first knives were used to kill people too, but that doesnt mean thats all they are for. Guns are made to kill, but they dont NEED to kill.
"Imagine there would be an amendment that allows people to own and carry swords and knives. Couple that with the fact that us humans are TOTALLY rational beings = recipe for disaster."
You are aware you can own and carry swords' and knives right? also, " us humans are TOTALLY rational beings = recipe for disaster" is a disturbing outlook on human nature, assuming most people are unable to control themselves leads me to believe this is a reflection of yourself. i guess the only thing keeping you from shooting as many people as possible adn cause as much damage as possible, is a law. doesnt that sound insane to you?
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@craigedwards2411
"My point was that civilian weapons are no match for the military"
Yes, yes they are.
(tanks, drones, helicopters, training, intelligence, access to CCTV cams, ability to control 2G/ internet by for example disabling mobile service for civilians, chemical weapons etc).
Tanks drones and helos cant enforce lockdowns, cant confiscate contraband, cant knock down doors... CCTV can be blocked or destroyed, hell, all it takes is a pair of bolt cutters and you can take down the grid for an entire city. Furthermore, if they kill everyone and destroy supply routes and infrastructure, a fat load of good the tech does.
So the idea that people would fight back against a tyrannical government and somehow have the edge is somehow odd to me.
You think people would just lay down and take it? thats pretty weak
When I made my "people are TOTALLY rational beings" I was referring to the fact that we are emotional creatures and not logical ones (combine weapons with emotional nature and things can go south).
Again, i see this as you projecting yourself onto others. are you using that same rationality to automobiles and alcohol? of course not. Millions and millions of guns and gun owners go every day without irrationally over emotionally shooting up a place...
"It was a rather strange thing for you to say to be honest that the law is the only thing stopping me from going on a killing spree. I will class it as a mistake on your part and not an act of malice."
No you literally were using that as an argument. 'people are crazy and crazy and guns dont mix" and this leads me to believe that you either have a vastly distorted understanding of what you are trying to convey, or you think that laws are whats stopping people from doing crazy stuff?
Knives are useful tools for a variety of stuff.
What utility do have guns have apart from killing stuff?
So are guns. Hunting, sport, leisure, self defense, home defense, pest control. To be specific, guns were made to shoot just like knives were made to cut and stab. killing is just a modifier of those functions.
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@craigedwards2411
"Again, i see this as you projecting yourself onto others. are you using that same rationality to automobiles and alcohol? of course not. Millions and millions of guns and gun owners go every day without irrationally over emotionally shooting up a place..."
Of the top of your head tell me what are the fundamental laws of logic. You can't really use something properly if you don't know it right? Like expecting someone who never drove a car to drive it perfectly, that will never happen.
So what? you seem to think that gun problems arise from lack of understanding, which is clearly not the case. the individuals committing said gun crimes know exactly how guns work, hence the crime.
And as I already explained humans are emotional not logical
Right, and i used the same logic to cars and booze.
which is just what we are and not a projection of me on others.
No, the projection is " i think most people are emotional and illogical, therefore they shouldnt have guns" and not realizing that you say this because you internalize yourself as the average person, hence the projection.
When stress levels kick in we start to behave sporadic and chaotic and guns can be rather handy at them times. When it comes to alcohol and automobiles we have shit loads of regulation on those don't we?
And are you assuming we dont have shit loads of regulations on firearms? of course we do...
"So are guns. Hunting, sport, leisure, self defense, home defense, pest control. To be specific, guns were made to shoot just like knives were made to cut and stab. killing is just a modifier of those functions."
So guns can only kill stuff as a common denominator regardless if it is for self-defence or pest control. End result you kill something.
Except the parts where you can use a gun in self defense and never fire it. you know, like millions have done before.
Knives can be used for killing (obviously) but they can be used as tool of trade (carpenter), to aid tool making, to cut stuff down or for cooking etc etc You see the difference?
Uh sure, guns are also used for non killing things like sport shooting, target practice, entertainment, as well as a tool for getting food for your knives to cook...
Plus knives do not deliver such a killing potential as a firearm.
Debatable
A gun can have several bullets in a magazine and you can do your thing from a distance while a knife is a close quarters thing.
yeah, and guns are loud, easy to trace with ballistics, and are harder to get than knives, which are silent, are lethal up to 20 feet, and you can stab a few people without making a sound.
Hence why when mass shootings are happening them people go with a firearm as a prefered tool because of its ability to deliver alot of damage in a short period of time.
Yeah and notice they always take place in gun free zones..... weird almost like they know no one is going to shoot back.....
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@cedricrust9953
yes, I need you to shownme what institutions exactly consitute this "one world government". I suppose you mean the UN, which is funny because whenever it votes against the US, the US just ignores it anyway or uses its veto power.
Yeah im talking about unofficial institutions. Like the Bilderberg group or the council on foreign relations, or the trilateral commission
Also, those aren't things "I think", they are conclusions drawn by scientists and can be looked up in the scientific literature.
What specifically?
If you really think scientists are all corrupt because they want research funds from the government (which are pretry competitive) while they could make fortunes spewing corporate propaganda for various oil companies to protect their short-term profites... yeah, not very convincing.
Yeah imagine thinking unlimited government money isnt more enticing than finite corporate money. Also ignoring the clear issue in the higher institutions of studies and research being unable to be replicated, and the infestation of marxism into higher learning
"Also, as I said, even if you don't care about people elsewhere, it will have an effect on the US anyway. The east coast has plenty of land that'd be under water eventually. If other countries suffer, this will also affect the world economy.
"
Yeah and 40 years ago florida was supposed to be under water and the icecaps would be gone and polar bears would be all dead. yet nothing happened and the same climate alarmist that gets pumped out decade after decade to fuel government run programs with tax dollars is just another brick in the wall
Not to.mention that transitioning to green energies coupled with infrasctructure spending (hello there public traffic), which Trump has promised to do but didn't, would be stimulating the job market
Green energy is a joke....
also infrastructure*
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i wonder which word google doesnt like
because (Historical AH )was the bad guy
Its because history is written by the victors, and understanding a foundation myth can illuminate
It explains the origin and structure of the world and society( (Historical N faction) bad, racism bad, questioning (certain ethnic religious group) bad)
It defines ultimate good ( The good guys^TM usa and (Specific state in the middle east) ) and evil ((Historical AH )and white racial identity)
it determines what is held sacred in that society
For those in the modern world, the story of WWII has become their foundation myth as it fulfills the three functions
We live in a " post war world". Lines on the map, the institutions, the sense of what era we live in, all arise from the starting point in WWII
Ultimate evil is (Historical N faction) , ultimate good is opposing (Historical N faction). The values derived from these definitions are anti racism, equality, diversity, anti nationalism
The only thing that is held sacred, that cannot be denied or mocked in the contemporary west is the ( H word event)
The problem with this is that these are all backwards or negative. Instead of the origin event being of fertility and new life, it is of death and destruction. Instead of the ultimate good taking the central position of the story, that slot is occupied by the ultimate evil. Everyone knows that (Historical AH ) is the personification of evil and holes the center point of the WWII story. Instead of that which is held sacred being something mysterious and sublime, the ( H word event) is an obscenity
censor friendly version.
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Bull Moose
What do you call the invasion of other countries in an attempt to conquer them?
depends on what countries and what year borders were talking about...
"Because that looks to me like they were taking National socialism international when you go to war to force your ideology on other people."
Yea not what it looked like from where im sitting, it looked like the entire world teamed up with one of the few times someone broke away from the international banking cartel...
"The first ruling under National socialist control was to nationalize industry which is why they were able to begin ramping up production.
Nationalizing industry = 100% exactly Marxism.
So its marxism when non marxists do it too? or is this nationalization a marxist only thing? because im pretty sure its not... The us nationalized the post office, the telephone system, airport security, and the railroads are partially nationalized. is the US marxist now?
"You will need to prove to me that Nationalizing industry is NOT Marxism before you'll even begin to convince me that the National socialist party of Germany wasn't socialist"
First off, im not trying to convince anyone that the national socialist's werent socialists, im saying the national socialists were EXPLICITLY anti marxist, buit you are trying to tell me no they were marxist anyway.
Nationalization =/= Marxism
"When asked in an interview in 1934 .....................You'll have a gas, I'm sure.
Its like you are arguing a point no one here made dude... get over yourself
"Points 10-16 of the 25 point plan proposed by The National socialist party of Germany, you'll notice nationalization of businesses, criminalization of profit, and communalization of the people... pretty much the main tenets of Marxism."
10. The first obligation of every citizen must be to productively work mentally or physically. The activity of individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the framework of the whole for the benefit for the general good. We demand therefore:
11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice of life and property that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment due to a war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. Therefore, we demand ruthless confiscation of all war profits.
13. We demand nationalization of all businesses which have been up to the present formed into companies (trusts).
14. We demand that the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.
15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
16. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
So the above boils down to , ending usury, ending debt slavery, ending massive corporations, promoting welfare, and securing the middle classes existance... I guess all socialism is marxism to you. I dont see how nationalization is marxism, nor do i see anywhere that says "criminalization of profit"
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@babouler
"In what sense that it got worst?"
We are now at the point where pointing out racial crime states is borderline a hate crime. because some groups do things in larger numbers that others dont and we cant even talk about it without being called racist
"when Italian and Irish came to the US was that bad but now they are the good guys?
They self segregated, and were treated poorly, but are closer together than other groups that are now flowing in numbers far exceeding those of both the irish AND the itailian, and they are less compatible
and what culture do you mean, the US has beena beacon of freedom and hope until recently
This freedom and hope culture comes from a small minority of the global population
"I haven'T seen 300 million Indians moving anywhere, in fact even if all of Mexico would come to the US they would be outnumbered 3-1 by... US citizen"
Yeah sure, and the last 60 years of foreigners " becoming US citizens" has nothing to do with that right? when anyone can be a us citizen it sort of becomes meaningless in the sense of culture and a nation as a w hole, and thats my point. 300million at once is a crazy number, but the US has been taking in millions a year non stio for almost 100 years, and pretending that that wont caus problems is just naïve of nature
"the same concept than when we went from Farmers to manufacturing .. jsut evolution and people resisting changes have been left well behind"
So accept mass immigration, and the demographic changes of a nation because progress? that sounds disturbing to me
Good luck when the majority of the population is not from European descent
oh yeah the one group of people touted with most of the creations of the modern era are going to become minorities everywhere they are from, and you call this progress?
"FYI you yourself are probaly a mix between several groups jsut so you know natives /black and white were not all that enemies all the time lol"
yeah, english irish, some french, and im sure theres some german in there somewhere, btu my point is some groups are different than others and all your rambling about economic issues is clearly just avoiding the topic about race relations...
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@blackstallion7927
Wrong
na·tion·al·i·ty
/ˌnaSHəˈnalədē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
the status of belonging to a particular nation.
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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@nambepambe3221
There is literally nothing wrong with run-on sentences.
Yes there is, its difficult to read, and hard to keep thoughts orderly and self contained.
Illegal immigration has very little to do with any non-ER care since they pay for primary care in cash and had literally nothing to do with the consolidation of the American Healthcare system, which is by far the largest source for the increased price of healthcare in the United States.
"they pay in cash" except when they dont...
Your assumption that nonwhite genetic conditions are somehow more significant than white genetic problems is why I assume you dislike brown people, I never implied you dislike brown people for being brown.
Because you project your BS onto me while ignoring the differences genetically between groups of people, and some groups have higher risk for costly medical expenditures... Dont blame me, blame nature.
The other reasons you may or may not dislike brown people aren't really relevant to the discussion.
It literally has nothing to do with them being brown, and everything to do with them being culturally, genetically, socially and intellectually different...
If you want to blame someone specific as opposed to the postwar economic vacuum, corporate lobbying and rampant corruption in the federal government, try Wilbur J. Cohen.
Cool, of course its a democratic jewish man behind the curtain... oy vey once again a coincidence
California is effectively a different healthcare system than the entire rest of the US and I would advise you to leave if you are unfortunate enough to live there.
And its effectively an illegal settlement that the tax payer subsidies...
" demographic shifts have little to no effect on healthcare"
HAHAHAHahahahaah its still funny
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@nambepambe3221
It's really not my problem if...
thats nice
Less than 1% of public health costs are claimed by illegal immigrants despite being around 2% of the general population. Somewhere between 300 and 400M is paid out of pocket, so the net deficit is actually fairly small.
citation?
they use more than they pay
https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers
"Total Federal Medical Expenditures
Uncompensated Hospital Expenditure $8,200,000,000
Medicaid Births
$1,242,990,372
Medicaid Fraud
$3,458,475,000
Medicaid for U.S.-born Kids of Illegal Aliens $4,234,129,200
Total $17,135,594,572"
I never stated that there aren't genetic differences between racial groups, just pointed out that genetic diseases aren't specifically a nonwhite problem which seems to be your assumption.
I never said it was a non white problem, i said that more non whites means more medical issues that dont normally or specifically affect whites....
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/inheritance/ethnicgroup
" you just dont like brown people"
im glad thats how you internalized what i said...
As for Wilbur, it's almost like a group of people who historically profited off of international trade and usury happen to be very good at profiting off of international trade and usury.
Oy vey!
California is the largest subnational economy in the entire world. You are not paying your taxes to California unless you live there. Their healthcare problems can be blamed almost entirely on Kaiser Permanente, libertine brain drain and the economic interests of Silicon Valley and the entertainment industry. Pedro and Jose aren't the ones lobbying at the state legislature, in case you haven't noticed.
i mean its not like you are gonna pretend that california even listens to its voters...
prop 187 is a perfect example. besides, pedro and jose get to drop their kids off at public schools, and get o be citizens, and we arent even talking about the amounts of other welfare they get... but yeah, guess there cant be more than one problem can there?
Despite your fantasies of democratic representation and sportsball conditioning, the average voter does not affect policy whether they vote for someone with a D or an R next to their name. You might want to check out the Gilens and Page paper if you actually believe minorities are somehow the driving force behind consolidation.
i didnt even suggest that, its like you have this tunnel vision where complex problems cant have multiple problem areas? I guess if spending a few billion a year on people who dont even have any right to be here ( illegals, indians, chinese, fucking somalians) is no big deal because the out of control government doesnt care about the people they were elected by, so they can just replace them, because nothing says america like turning citizens into replaceable labor units and anyone who speaks out against this is a racist because they hate brown people... import the third world. become the third world
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@nambepambe3221
Immigration procedures exist specifically so that legal immigrants will be a net benefit to the country they are immigrating to. As an experiment, why don't you take a wild guess as to which group is more likely to follow guidelines for protection against HIV transmission and remain compliant with medication: African immigrants or native-born citizens?
Adding to the GDP doesnt mean it benefits the natives. Its just more competition in the job market and resources like land and services.
" more likely to follow guidelines for protection against HIV transmission and remain compliant with medication: African immigrants or native-born citizens?"
Native born citizens
As for illegal immigrants, if they weren't generating profit, no one would be buttering hands in congress to keep them here. It fucks over the unskilled labor market due to increased supply and lower wages, but that's still a net profit if you're looking at GDP versus uncompensated expenses. For better or worse, GDP is the opioid of neolibs/cons and that's not about to change, and frankly 800M/yr is a drop in the bucket when you're an industry generating over 40B a quarter.
"i dont care about GDP, its my home country, not a fucking shopping mall with easily replaceable consumer units... but thats how my government sees me..
If you think California is a model for what happens in the rest of the US you haven't seen the vast majority of the US; the only state that can even be fairly compared is Massachusetts but even they're managed competently in comparison to big tech/hollywood and their serfs.
"because its not as bad as cali it woundlt happen elsewhere" THat is literally my point, the liberal leftie blueish states always tow the party lines, so eventually it will spread, not to mention the number of people leaving cali...
Destroying a country for GDP doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies
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@nambepambe3221
it's actually African immigrants.
Nice, i like how you cited that totally believable line.. but yeah i totally believe you
I realize you're probably unaware of what's going on in the skilled labor market, but people aren't really suffering when you bring in more Ph. Ds to meet demand, especially when they're also paying income tax towards social services that they don't qualify to receive.
So replacing the workforce with foreigners is a good thing because reasons? or are you saying there arent thousands of natives trying to get those same degrees? ALSO not even counting the credibility of institutions all over the world, ALSO not counting the rampant cheating in universities in china and india... no no im sure they are all fuckin geniuses
So an industry should care about a comparatively minor deficit while they're generating unprecedented profit because it hurts your feelings?
Replacing your workforce with foreigners who will then take up space and grow in communities further displacing natives? i dont think this is a feeling thing and more of a being replaced in your own land kinda thing goin on here...
Trump hasn't changed anything, the GoP doesn't want anything to change. It's not about Red or Blue it's about a class of people who have cemented themselves in perpetual positions of power with a common interest in distracting the plebs with bread and circuses.
Riiiight, and what is your point here? that i should just shut up and let it keep happening?
Every time someone in power has seemed to be genuinely interested in changing things since the JFK years, a scandal mysteriously arises. Watergate. The Iranian hostage crisis. The Ron Paul letters. On the other hand, whenever something crazy seems to be happening that could expose something much bigger, it gets cut of
You mean like how the world is run by disgusting people who lie cheat steal, use blackmail, and child trafficking? and im supposed to listen to global entities telling me that replacing my countrymen with foreigners is a good thing?
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@nambepambe3221
My point is that you've fallen for the misdirection that immigrants are somehow to blame for the actions of a government in which they have not even the illusion of representation because of your own partisan indoctrination.
No the governments using immigration as a weapon and for profit... so blaming immigrants is blaming a symptom of the disease of corrupt government. muh partisan politics
Personally, I think the timeframe for a peaceful solution to the problems currently facing the US has passed, but what I'm arguing against isn't the legitimacy of the government it's that demographic shifts are responsible for the problems facing the healthcare system.
Government creates problem, and solves it by making it worse for their own benefit. the problems are intertwined, pretending they are seperate problems misses the point
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4442684/
"Among Black individuals, immigrants, most of whom emigrate from higher-prevalence regions in sub-Saharan Africa and the Caribbean, tend to be diagnosed with more advanced infection than native born individuals, suggesting a long lag time between initial infection and diagnosis"
"Though little attention has been focused on HIV in non-U.S. born Black individuals, this subpopulation has a higher rate of HIV infection than native born Blacks (81.4 vs. 78.9 per 100,000)"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3672242/
"An estimated 34 million people worldwide were living with HIV at the end of 2010 [1]. Almost 70 % (23 million) reside in sub-Saharan Africa, where only 10 % of the world’s population lives "
"Overall, Blacks in the US accounted for 51 % of new HIV diagnoses in 2006, while making up only 12 % of the population"
Not even sure what those links are here for
Shows that legal immigrants, either resident or via visa are less likely to go untested than illegal immigrants or refugees, and less likely to not adhere to treatment despite having a higher infection risk than the general population, probably a consequence of higher levels of education, socioeconomic status and first-hand experience that AIDS isn't actually a good thing unlike San Franciscan bugchasers.
It shows that immigrants are more likely to be already infected because they dont test for them regularly? im not sure where you were going with this line of inquiry
It's a good thing because it really doesn't affect Professor Hughes or Doctor Smith's wages or workload if Doctor Motumbo from Nigeria comes to work in the US when there's already more demand for providers than can reasonably be met from the native population, especially when the former two have access to expedited emigration to most of the world if they choose to leave.
"replacing natives with foreigners is fine because its profitable.
And i guess brain draining poor shithole countries is a great way to keep them poor shithole countries, therefore leading to an endless supply of laborers, no matter what the field. and rewarding people who abandon their people is so virtuous when the people taking advantage of the system here werent here to help build it, and the descendants of those who built it are being replaced and you seem to think thats fine
To be blunt, not everyone is capable of intellectual work.
Right, and colleges arent a good indicator of intellectual work. It is only an indicator that they follow instructions and paid money...
No skilled laborer is being replaced,
Yes they are, what are you talking about? Have you bothered to look at tech? good thing india has millions and millions of people for an endless supply of tech workers to further shit up the industry in the country( worked at infosys for 3 years)
positions that are needed but are currently empty are being filled. On the other hand, if you bring over 500,000 people from El Salvador to do menial labor for subminimum wage with no SSID you're undercutting an entire economic class that doesn't really have anywhere else to go.
And pouring in hundreds of thousands of " degree holders" into the country every year does what to the people here nativly. You are enabling a globalist market set to force everyone on the planet to compete at the same time for the small number of jobs in developed countries.....
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@0utc4st1985 buddy a nation is its people...
spoiler groups of people are different
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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@eggynack literally googling
" negative impacts of immigration" will lead you to several sources. why you are being this dishonest only means you intentionally are pushing what is in your own best interests...
"Immigrant workers increased US GDP by about 1.7 trillion, or 10.7% in 2013. The vast bulk of this gain went to the immigrants themselves. Only 2% went to natives.
For native-born Americans, immigration s major impact is distributional: It lowers the wages of native born workers and raises the income of their employers and other upper income natives who derive disproportionate share of their income from capital gains, stock options and other non-wage income. By increasing the number of workers in the economy, immigration lowers the wages of native born workers. At the same time however native born employers gain from immigration because they can now hire workers at lower wages. Native born consumers also gain , especially the wealthy. Similarly natives who derive most of their income from dividends, capital gains, and other non wage income gain as immigration drives up corporates profits. Immigrations biggest winners then, at least among us natives, are the wealthy, while its biggest losers are disproportionally found among the nations poor and middle class. Clearly immigration exacerbates the economic divide of the have and the have nots. Current levels of over one million legal admissions per year, and defacto amnesty and non enforcement policies that serve to protect those aliens who are here unlawfully are only placing greater economic strain on those citizens who can afford it least. "
You are either a fraud or a liar
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DM Lamont
you sound like a snide condescending prick
Here, i did the work for you because you are too goddamn entitled to use google
Dont worry its sourced
Total Federal Educational Expenditures:
Primary and Secondary Education $943,200,000
Limited English Proficiency (LEP) – Title III $541,694,040
Migrant schooling (Title I C) $206,140,000
Total $1,691,034,040
Total Medical Expenditures
Uncompensated Hospital Expenditure$8,200,000,000
Medicaid Births$1,242,990,372
Medicaid Fraud$3,458,475,000
Medicaid for U.S.-born Kids of Illegal Aliens$4,234,129,200
Total $17,135,594,572.00
Total Federal Justice Enforcement Expenditures
Federal Incarceration $1,240,000,000
Enforcement and Removals $3,218,000,000
Customs and Border Protection $5,968,729,360
Other ICE Operations $1,126,840,000
State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) $210,000,000
Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) $168,120,000
Alien Minors $1,200,000,000
Byrne grants $16,920,000
Total $13,148,609,360
Total Federal Welfare Programs
Meals in Schools $1,003,000,000
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program $1,963,416,000
Women Infants and Children $1,097,820,360
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families $1,785,000,000
Total $5,849,236,360
ANd before " but muh illegals pay taxes"
Net Federal Impact of Illegal Aliens
Total Federal Outlays $45,870,474,332
Net Federal Receipts $15,447,897,700
Net Fiscal Impact $30,422,576,632
-$30 million whew
source
https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers
Now to answer your question.
It is a crime
8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
source
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325
deportation is a must
they dont belong here
they are a net fiscal drain
they are a drain on medical resources
they are a drain on the public job market
why is this my or any of the other citizens problem?
maybe, JUST maybe..... maybe you DON'T actually know everything
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Ill help spoon feed you you ignorant twat...
1 Elizabeth English, “Illegal Immigration and K-12 Education,” American Enterprise Institute, February 25,
2015, http://www.aei.org/publication/illegal-immigration-k-12-education/
2 Joel Gherke, “Report: U.S. Spent $1.87 Billion to Incarcerate Illegal-Immigrant Criminals in 2014,”
National Review, July 28, 2015, http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421673/report-us-spent-187-billionincarcerate-illegal-immigrant-criminals-2014-joel-gehrke
3 Erik Ruark and Jack Martin, “The Sinking Lifeboat: Uncontrolled Immigration and the U.S. Healthcare
System in 2009,” Federation for American Immigration Reform, 2009, http://www.fairus.org/site/
DocServer/healthcare_09.pdf?docID=3521
4 DHS/CIS: Number of I-821D,Consideration of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals by Fiscal Year,
Quarter, Intake, Biometrics and Case Status: 2012-2016 (March 31)
5 Some illegal aliens are temporarily protected against deportation. Most of them are in one of three
programs; Temporary Protected Status (TPS), Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA), and Cubans
who beneft from the “wet-foot-dry-foot executive policy. The frst two programs, if allowed to expire
would restore benefciaries to illegal alien status and for that reason the benefciaries are treated in this
study as part of the illegal alien population. The Cuban illegal entrants, on the other hand, are provided
permanent legal status under the Cuban Adjustment Act after one year in the country, and are not,
therefore, included in our calculation of the illegal alien population, despite the fact that their illegal entry
is indistinguishable from the entry of other illegal aliens, and certainly constitutes a negative fscal impact
at the federal and local level.
6 Martin, Jack, Ruark, Eric, “The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers,”
Federation for American Immigration Reform, 2013, http://www.fairus.org/DocServer/research-pub/
USCostStudy_2013upd.pdf
7 Ferris, Raley, “The Elephant in the Classroom: Mass Immigration’s Impact on Public Education,”
Federation for American Immigration Reform, 2016, http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-elephant-inthe-classroom-mass-immigrations-impact-on-public-education
8 National Center for Education Statistics, “Fast Facts,” 2016, https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.
asp?id=372
9 U.S. Dept. of Education, Budget Tables, English Language Acquisition (ESEA III, Part A) https://www2.
ed.gov/about/overview/budget/budget17/17action.pdf
10 Ferris, Raley, “The Elephant in the Classroom: Mass Immigration’s Impact on Public Education,”
Federation for American Immigration Reform, 2016, http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-elephant-inthe-classroom-mass-immigrations-impact-on-public-education
11 U.S. Department of Education, Programs, “Migrant Education--Basic State Formula Grants,” https://
www2.ed.gov/programs/mep/index.html
12 Department of Education, Congressional Action, FY2017, https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/
budget17/17action.pdf
13 U.S. Department of Education, “High Standards for All Students: A Report from the National Assessment
of Title I on Progress and Challenges Since the 1994 Reauthorization,” https://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/eval/
disadv/nati.pdf
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14 Desilver, “Immigrants don’t make up a majority of workers in any U.S. industry,” Pew Research Center,
March, 2017, http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/16/immigrants-dont-make-up-a-majority-ofworkers-in-any-u-s-industry/
15 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, “Head Start Program Facts,” FY 2015, https://eclkc.ohs.
acf.hhs.gov/hslc/data/factsheets/2015-hs-program-factsheet.html
16 Mistry, Saurez-Orozco, “Preschool Makes a Diference for Poor Immigrant Children,” The New York
Times, February, 2013, http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/02/25/is-public-preschool-a-smartinvestment/preschool-makes-a-diference-for-poor-immigrant-children
17 Coughlin, Holahan, Caswell, McGrath, “Uncompensated Care for the Uninsured in 2013: A Detailed
Examination,” The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, 2013, http://kf.org/uninsured/report/
uncompensated-care-for-the-uninsured-in-2013-a-detailed-examination/
18 “Key Facts about the Uninsured Population,” The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, September, 2016,
http://kf.org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/#footnote-198942-12
19 Radnofsky, “Illegal Immigrants Get Public Health Care, Despite Federal Policy,” The Wall Street Journal,
March, 2016, https://www.wsj.com/articles/illegal-immigrants-get-public-health-care-despite-federalpolicy-1458850082
20 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “Births in the United States,” 2015, https://www.cdc.gov/
nchs/products/databriefs/db258.htm
21 Markus, Andre, West, Garro, Pellegrini, “Medicaid Covered Births, 2008 Through 2010, in the Context of
the Implementation of Health Reform,” Women’s Health Issues, September-October, 2013, http://www.
whijournal.com/article/S1049-3867(13)00055-8/fulltext
22 Reed, Westfall, Bublitz, Battaglia, Fickenscher, “Birth outcomes in Colorado’s undocumented
immigrant population,” BioMed Central, 2005, https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/
articles/10.1186/1471-2458-5-100
23 “How Undocumented Immigrants Sometimes Receive Medicaid Treatment,” PBS Newshour, February 13,
2013 Also see “Trends in Emergency Medicaid Expenditures for Recent and Undocumented Immigrants”
JAMA, March 14, 2007.
24 U.S. Government Accountability Ofce, “Financial Audit: Fiscal Years 2016 and 2015 Consolidated
Financial Statements of the U.S. Government,” January, 2017, http://www.gao.gov/assets/690/682081.pdf
25 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, “Medicaid Fraud Control Units Fiscal Year 2015 Annual
Report,” 2016, https://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-16-00050.pdf
26 Pfzer Medical Division, “A Profle of Uninsured Persons in the United States,” 2008, http://www.pfzer.
com/fles/products/Profle_of_uninsured_persons_in_the_United_States.pdf
27 Kaiser Family Foundation, “Key Facts About the Uninsured Population,” September 29, 2016, http://www.
kf.org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/
28 “Medicaid Spending per Enrollee — Full or Partial Beneft,” The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, 2011,
http://kf.org/medicaid/state-indicator/medicaid-spending-per-enrollee/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=
%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D
29 National Immigration Forum, “Department of Homeland Security — The President’s FY 2017 Budget,”
http://immigrationforum.org/blog/the-presidents-fscal-year-2017-budget-the-department-of-homelandsecurity/
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Dont worry there is more
30 U.S. Customs and Border Protection, “CBP Performance and Accountability Report,” FY 2014, https://
www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fles/documents/CBP_DHS_2014%20PAR_508C.PDF
31 U.S. Department of Homeland Security, “Budget in Brief,” FY 2016, https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/
fles/publications/FY_2016_DHS_Budget_in_Brief.pdf
32 U.S. Department of Justice - Ofce of Justice Programs, “Program Name: State Criminal Alien Assistance
Program (SCAAP),” FY2016, https://ojp.gov/about/pdfs/BJA_SCAAP%20Prog%20Summary_For%20
FY%2017%20PresBud.pdf
33 U.S. Department of Justice, “FY 2016 Statistics Yearbook,” March 2017, https://www.justice.gov/eoir/
page/fle/fysb16/download shows 328,112
34 TracImmigration website, “Nature of Charge in New Filings Seeking Removal Orders Through May 2017,”
http://trac.syr.edu/phptools/immigration/charges/apprep_newfling_charge.php
35 William A. Kandel, “Unaccompanied Alien Children: An Overview,” Congressional Research Service,
January 18, 2017 https://fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R43599.pdf
36 Ibid.
37 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, “FY2017 Justifcation of Estimates for Appropriations
Committees,” https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/fles/olab/fnal_cj_2017_print.pdf
38 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, “FY2017 Justifcation of Estimates for Appropriations
Committees,” https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/fles/olab/fnal_cj_2017_print.pdf
39 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, FY 2016 President’s Budget for HHS, Department of
Health and Human Services, (www.hhs.gov/about/budget/fy2016/budget-in-brief/index.html) website
consulted August 9, 2016.
40 U.S. Government Printing Ofce, “Department of Homeland Security Appropriations for 2017,” February
24, 2017 https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-114hhrg20679/pdf/CHRG-114hhrg20679.pdf
41 General Accountability Ofce, “Unaccompanied Alien Children: Actions Needed to Ensure Children
Receive Required Care in DHS Custody,” July 2015, http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/671393.pdf
42 U.S. Department of Homeland Security, “Homeland Security: Budget-in-Brief Fiscal Year 2016,” https://
www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fles/publications/FY_2016_DHS_Budget_in_Brief.pdf
43 U.S. Department of Homeland Security, “Homeland Security: Budget-in-Brief Fiscal Year 2017,” https://
www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fles/publications/FY2017BIB.pdf
44 Executive Ofce of the President, “Department of Health and Human Services Budget,” https://www.
whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/fles/omb/budget/fy2018/hhs.pdf
45 U.S. Department of Homeland Security, “Homeland Security: Budget-in-Brief Fiscal Year 2018,” https://
www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fles/publications/DHS%20FY18%20BIB%20Final.pdf
46 U.S. Department of Justice - Ofce of Justice Programs, “Byrne Justice Assistance Grant (JAG)
Program,” FY 2016, https://ojp.gov/about/pdfs/BJA_Byrne%20Justice%20Assistance%20Grants%20
(JAG)%20Program%20Summary_For%20FY%2017%20PresBud.pdf
47 Federal Bureau of Investigation, “National Gang Threat Assessment – 2009,” January 2009, https://www.
fbi.gov/fle-repository/stats-services-publications-national-gang-threat-assessment-2009-pdf/view
48 Camarota, Steven A. “Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households,” Center for Immigration
Studies, September 2015.
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Its almost as if this was a well researched topic
49 Ibid Ferris, Raley
50 U.S. Department of Agriculture, “Child Nutrition Tables” Federal Cost of School Food Programs, website
visited October 19, 2016 (http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/child-nutrition-tables )
51 Camarota, Steven A. “Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households,” Center for Immigration
Studies, September 2015, http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Legal-Illegal-Immigrant-Households
52 U.S. Department of Agriculture, Food and Nutrition Service, WIC Program, WIC Funding and Program
Data, https://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/wic-funding-and-program-data
53 Camarota, Steven A. “Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households,” Center for Immigration
Studies, September 2015.
54 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, “WIC Participant and Program Characteristics 2014,”
November 2015, https://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/fles/ops/WICPC2014.pdf
55 The Urban Institute/University of Maryland Baltimore County, “Efects of Immigration on WIC and NSLP
Caseloads,” September 2010, http://www.urban.org/sites/default/fles/publication/29156/412214-Efectsof-Immigration-on-WIC-and-NSLP-Caseloads.PDF
56 United States Department of Agriculture, Food and Nutrition Service, WIC Program, Monthly Data, https://
www.fns.usda.gov/pd/wic-program
57 [i] “TANF Caseload Data 2014,” May 22, 2015,HHS website visited October 21, 2016, (http://www.acf.hhs.
gov/ofa/resource/caseload-data-2014 )
58 [ii] Congressional Budget Ofce, “Temporary Assistance for Needy Families: Spending and Policy
Options,” FY2013, https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fles/114th-congress-2015-2016/reports/49887-tanf.
pdf
59 Congressional Research Service, “Immigration: Non-Citizen Eligibility for Needs-Based Housing
Programs,” July, 2008, https://www.ilw.com/immigrationdaily/news/2011,0113-crs.pdf
60 Richwine, Rector, “The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer,” The
Heritage Foundation, 2013, http://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fscal-cost-unlawfulimmigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer
61 Forum on Child and Family Statistics, “Child Population: Number of Children,” Projections 2016-2050,
https://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp
62 The College Board, “Trends in Student Aid 2015,” http://trends.collegeboard.org/sites/default/fles/trendsstudent-aid-web-fnal-508-2.pdf
63 The Motley Fool, LLC, “What’s the Average American’s Tax Rate?” March 4, 2017, https://www.fool.com/
retirement/2017/03/04/whats-the-average-americans-tax-rate.aspx
64 Robert Rector and Jamie Hall, “National Academy of Sciences Report Indicates Amnesty for Unlawful
Immigrants Would Cost Trillions of Dollars,” The Heritage Foundation, December 22, 2016, http://
www.heritage.org/immigration/report/national-academy-sciences-report-indicates-amnesty-unlawfulimmigrants-would
65 The Tax Policy Center, “Tax Policy Center Briefng Book: Key Elements of the U.S. Tax System,” http://
www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefng-book/how-does-federal-tax-system-afect-low-income-households
66 Jason Richwine and Robert Rector, “The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S.
Taxpayer,” The Heritage Foundation, May 6, 2013, http://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fscalcost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer
67 Ibid.
68 Op Cite, Richwine, Rector, Camarota, Cohn, Passel
69 Passel, Jefrey S., Cohn, D’Vera, Pew Research, “A Portrait of Unauthorized Immigrants in the
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Sorry your ignorance is showing
69 Passel, Jefrey S., Cohn, D’Vera, Pew Research, “A Portrait of Unauthorized Immigrants in the United
States,” 2009, http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/04/14/a-portrait-of-unauthorized-immigrants-in-theunited-states/
70 Congressional Budget Ofce, “The Distribution of Household Income and Federal Taxes, 2013,”
June 2016, https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fles/114th-congress-2015-2016/reports/51361-
householdincomefedtaxesonecol.pdf
71 http://www.pewhispanic.org/fles/reports/95.pdf
72 http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/656316.pdf
73 https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/di_asr/2011/sect01.html
74 https://www.bls.gov/news.release/forbrn.t01.htm
75 “ARRA and the Additional Child Tax Credit,“ accessed August 26,2016, https://www.irs.gov/uac/arra-andthe-additional-child-tax-credit
76 Treasury Inspector General for Tax Adminsitration, Individuals Who Are Not Authorized in the United
States Were Paid $4.2 billion in Refundable credits,” July, 2011, https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/
auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.pdf
77 Numbers USA, “Whistleblower Says IRS Managers Ignored Illegal-Aliens ITIN Fraud,” July, 2012, https://
www.numbersusa.com/content/news/july-3-2012/whistleblower-says-irs-managers-ignored-illegal-alienitin-fraud.html
78 U.S. Internal Revenue Service, “2015 EITC Income Limits, Maximum Credit Amounts, and Tax Law
Updates,” https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-credit/eitc-incomelimits-maximum-credit-amounts-1-year
79 “Refundable Tax Credits: Comprehensive Compliance Strategy and Expanded Use of Data Could
Strengthen IRS’s Eforts to Address Noncompliance,” GAO-16-475, May 2016.
80 Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, “Existing Compliance Processes Will Not Reduce
the Billions of Dollars in Improper Earned Income Tax Credit and Additional Child Tax Credit Payments,”
September 29, 2014, https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2014reports/201440093fr.pdf
81 “Without Expanded Error Correction Authority, Billions of Dollars in Identifed Potentially Erroneous
Earned Income Credit Claims Will Continue to Go Unaddressed Each Year,” U.S. Treasury Inspector
General Report No. 2016-40-036, April 27, 2016.
82 Internal Revenue Service, “Internal Revenue Service Nationla Ofce Chief Counsel Advice,” July 14, 2000,
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-wd/0028034.pdf
83 U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, “Number of Form I-821D,Consideration of Deferred Action
for Childhood Arrivals, by Fiscal Year, Quarter, Intake,Biometrics and Case Status Fiscal Year 2012-2017
—FY2017, Q2,” March 31, 2017, https://www.h1bvisalawyerblog.com/2017/06/daca-statistics-dacaquarterly-report-fy2017-q2.html
84 Brookings Institution, “Immigration Facts: Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA),” August 14,
2013, https://www.brookings.edu/research/immigration-facts-deferred-action-for-childhood-arrivalsdaca/
85 Department of Health and Human Services, Ofce of the Inspector General, “
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Still more?
You bet!
85 Department of Health and Human Services, Ofce of the Inspector General, “Medicare Improperly Paid
Millions of Dollars for Unlawfully Present Benefciaries for 2013 and 2014,” September 2016, https://oig.
hhs.gov/oas/reports/region7/71501159.pdf
86 U.S. Energy Information Administration, “Frequently Asked Questions: How Much Gasoline Does the
United States Consume?,” Accessed June, 2017, https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10
87 [
Tax Policy Center, “What Are the Major Federal Excise Taxes, and How Much Money do they Raise?,” FY
2015, http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefng-book/what-are-major-federal-excise-taxes-and-how-muchmoney-do-they-raise
88 Magdelena Szafarski, Lisa A. Cubbins, and Jun Ying, “Epidemiology of Alcohol Abuse Among U.S.
Immigrant Populations,” Journal of Immigrant Minor Health, August 13, 2011, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.
gov/pmc/articles/PMC3133815/
89 Frohlich, Thomas C., “States Drinking the Most Beer,” USA Today, July,2015, https://www.usatoday.com/
story/money/business/2015/07/02/24-7-wall-st-states-drinking-most-beer/29574619/ ; Kirin Holdings
Company, “Per-Capita Beer Consumption by Country,” 2014, http://www.kirinholdings.co.jp/english/
news/2015/1224_01.html#table3
90 Bosdriesz, Jizzo; Lichthart, Nienke; Witvliet, Margot; Busschers, Wim; Stronks, Karien; Kunst, Anton,
“Smoking Prevalence among Migrants in the US Compared to the US-Born and the Population in
Countries of Origin,” PLOS, March, 2013, http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.
pone.0058654
91 Steven A. Camarota, “Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households: An Analysis of Medicaid,
Cash, food, and Housing Programs,” Center for Immigration Studies, September 9, 2015< https://cis.org/
Report/Welfare-Use-Legal-and-Illegal-Immigrant-Households
92 Pew Research Center, Hispanic Trends, “U.S. Unauthorized Immigration Population Estimates, By State,”
2014, http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/
93 “Plyler v. Doe,” Oyez, Retrieved May 12, 2017, https://www.oyez.org/cases/1981/80-1538
94 Op Cite, Raley, Ferris
95 National Conference of State Legislators, “Undocumented Student Tuition: Overview,” October 29, 2015,
http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/undocumented-student-tuition-overview.aspx
96 “Immigration Reform 2015: More Undocumented Immigrants Enrolling In College As States Debate Tuition
Laws,” International Business Times, February 11, 2015.
97 What is AB540, http://ab540.com/What_Is_AB540_.html
98 Unites States Citizenship and Immigration Services, “Number of I-821D, Consideration of Deferred
Action for Childhood Arrivals,” 2012-2016, https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/fles/USCIS/Resources/
Reports%20and%20Studies/Immigration%20Forms%20Data/All%20Form%20Types/DACA/daca_
performancedata_fy2016_qtr3.pdf
99 Gordon, Larry, Ed Source, “Colleges Expand Services for Undocumented Students as Legislation Seeks
More,” September, 2016, https://edsource.org/2016/colleges-expand-services-for-undocumentedstudents-as-legislation-seeks-more/569296
100 “Undocumented—and Unmeasured,” “New York’s political leaders obscure the costs of illegal
immigration under sentimental rhetoric.”, Seth Barron , City Journal, September 2, 2016
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oh boy all these racist sources like all those .gov and .org and all those PDFs of racism
101 Gusmano, Michael, “Undocumented Immigrants in the United States: U.S. Health Policy and Access to
Care”, (http://www.undocumentedpatients.org/issuebrief/health-policy-and-access-to-care/) website
consulted September 29, 2016.
102 Coughlin , Teresa A, ibid.
103 “Key Facts about the Uninsured Population,” Sep 29, 2016 Kaiser Family Foundation website (http://kf.
org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/), consulted October 5, 2016.
104 Vliet, Elizabeth Lee, M.D., “Illegal Immigration Healthcare Costs Afect YOU!,” AAPS News of the Day
Blog, June 1,2010
105 Based on compilation of available SCAAP data. See, U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice
Statistics, “State Criminal Alien Assistance Program — Archives,” https://www.bja.gov/ProgramDetails.
aspx?Program_ID=86#horizontalTab8
106 Aguilar, Julian, “Even under Trump, state budget writers deliver big on border security funding,” The Texas
Tribune, May, 2017, Accessed June, 2017, https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05/23/even-under-trumpstate-budget-writers-deliver-big-border-security-fund/
107 Grissom, Brandi, “Gov. Abbott extends National Guard on the border in response to unaccompanied
minors,” The Dallas Morning News, December, 2015, Accessed June, 2017, https://www.dallasnews.
com/news/politics/2015/12/15/gov-abbott-extends-national-guard-on-the-border-in-response-tounaccompanied-minors
108 New Mexico Border Authority, “Welcome the New Mexico Border Authority,” http://www.nmborder.com/
109 State of New Mexico, “Report of the Legislative Finance Committee to the Fifty-Second Legislator,
Second Session,” January, 2016, https://www.nmlegis.gov/lcs/lfc/lfcdocs/budget/2017RecommendVolI.
pdf
110 Arizona Department of Public Safety — Arizona State Troopers, “Border Strike Force Bureau,” https://
www.azdps.gov/organization/CID/bsf
111 Ofce of the Governor, “State of Arizona FY 2017 Budget,” FY 2017, https://azgovernor.gov/fy17budget
112 State of Arizona, “FY 2016 Appropriations Report,” FY 2016, http://www.azleg.gov/jlbc/16AR/
FY2016AppropRpt.pdf
113 “Gov. Brown takes dig at Texas national guard border plan,” KSBW8, July 28,2014, Accessed June, 2017,
http://www.ksbw.com/article/gov-brown-takes-dig-at-texas-national-guard-border-plan/1054616
114 Murphy, Katy, “Gov. Jerry Brown unveils new state budget proposal with rosier outlook,” The Mercury
News,” May 11, 2017, Accessed June, 2017, http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/11/jerry-brownunveils-new-state-budget-proposal-thursday/
115 United States Congress, “Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996,”
https://www.congress.gov/104/plaws/publ193/PLAW-104publ193.pdf
116 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, “CCDF
Reauthorization Frequently Asked Questions,” March 25, 2015, https://www.acf.hhs.gov/occ/resource/
ccdf-reauthorization-faq-archived
117 Hannah Matthews, Karen Schulman, Julie Vogtman, Christine Johnson-Staub, and Helen Blank,
“Implementing the Child Care and Development Block Grant Reauthorization: A Guide for States,”
National Women’s Law Center — Center for Law and Social Policy, 2015, http://www.clasp.org/resourcesand-publications/publication-1/ccdbg-guide-for-states-fnal.pdf
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Last one i promise
118 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, “Fiscal Year
2016 Federal Child Care and Related Appropriations,” January 4, 2016, https://www.acf.hhs.gov/occ/
resource/fscal-year-2016-federal-child-care-and-related-appropriations#_ftnref1
119 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, “Clarifcation
of Interpretation of ‘Federal Public Beneft’ Regarding CCDF Services,” Program Instruction: ACYF-PICC-98-08,
November 25, 1998, https://www.acf.hhs.gov/occ/resource/pi-cc-98-08
120 TANF and Child Welfare Programs,” Government Accountability Ofce, October 2011
121 United States Department of Agriculture, “National School Lunch Program,” Accessed May, 2017, https://
www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/fles/NSLPFactSheet.pdf
122 Neuberger, Zoe, Namian, Tina, “Who Benefts from Federal Subsidies for Free and Reduced Price School
Meals,” Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 2010, http://www.cbpp.org/research/who-benefts-fromfederal-subsidies-for-free-and-reduced-price-school-meals#_ftn11
123 “Undocumented Immigrants State and Local Tax Contributions,” Institute on Taxation and Economic
Policy, 2017, https://itep.org/immigration/
124 “Mexico Got More Money from Remittances than from Oil Revenues in 2015,” NBC News, February, 2016,
Accessed May 23, 2017, http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/mexico-got-more-money-remittances-oilrevenues-2015-n510346
125 Bernal, Rafael, “Mexicans in the US Sending Less Money Homes,” The Hill, May, 2016, Accessed May,
2017, http://thehill.com/latino/278655-mexicans-in-the-us-sending-less-money-home
126 “Consumer Expenditures—2015,” Bureau of Labor Statistics, website visited November 2, 2016 (http://
www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm).
127 Zillow, “Texas Home Prices and Values,” Accessed June, 2017, https://www.zillow.com/tx/home-values/
128 Passel, Jefrey; Cohn, D’Vera, “A Portrait of Unauthorized Immigrants in the United States,” Pew Hispanic
Center, April, 2009, http://www.pewhispanic.org/fles/reports/107.pdf
129 United States Census Bureau, “Quarterly Residential Vacancies and Homeownership,” Second Quarter,
2017, https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/fles/currenthvspress.pdf
130 American Petroleum Institute, “State Motor Fuel Taxes,” April, 2017, http://www.api.org/~/media/Files/
Statistics/State-Motor-Fuel-Taxes-Report-Apr-2017.pdf
131 Gas Buddy, “24 Month Average Retail Price Chart,” Data Accessed June, 2017, http://www.gasbuddy.
com/Charts
132 U.S. Energy Information Administration, “Frequently Asked Questions: How Much Gasoline Does the
United States Consume?,” Accessed June, 2017, https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10
133 U.S. Department of Transportation, Federal Highway Administration, “Highway Finance Data Collection,”
2011, https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/pubs/hf/pl11028/chapter4.cfm
134 Caplinger, Dan, “The 5 States Without Sales Tax,” AOL Finance, May, 2013, Accessed June, 2017, https://
www.aol.com/article/2013/05/05/the-5-states-with-no-sales-tax/20558414/
maybe if you bothered to do any research for yourself you wouldnt be calling me a racist...
because it makes you look stupid
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@Meirstein
"Saying that Syria has been at war in the past is like saying that Europe has been at war for over 2000 years"
because it mostly has?
"Everything we say is caused by climate change can be easily tracked through the series of events that led up to it"
you can see changes in weather, and in the global climate, and you can see events that it effects, but no, its not more evidence of human caused c02 related global warming...
Shall we try again?
you arent trying anything other than using hypothetical examples of real world things, and then using them as proof oc man made human c02 related climate change... which its not evidence of... no matter how hard you say it
"Perhaps you'd prefer to go back to the beginning? "
yeah
"Burning fossil fuels increases the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere."
Yes it does, did you know that there are also many more natural sources of c02?
"Increased carbon dioxide traps refracted infrared radiation from the sun."
and water vapor is also able to do the same job of c02. its almost like the sun , (a giant massive solar body with a mathematical total power output of the sun is 64 x 10 times 6.09 x 1018 m2, which is equal to 3.9 x 1026 watts) is a far greater driver of climate change than human action...
"That is how the greenhouse effect works"
yeah thanks, i grasp middle school science class
"Your problem is that you are for some reason completely incapable for following a simple causation pathway."
yeah, its crazy, its almost lilke you go from, X is happening in the climate therefore evidence of human caused c02 warming...
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@dwightk.schrute6743 Because I don't believe a lying, narcissistic moron who labels everyone who disagrees with him with deragatory nicknames or as "the enemy of the people" should be the leader of the free world.
Basket of deplorables?
super predators?
taco bowl vote?
did you miss these ones because CNN and MSNBC didnt run them on loop for a year?
He told 4 women of color, three of whom who were born in this country, to "go back where they came from"
Well he told a somali, who was saying how our government should be run, after fleeing a terrible country because it was so horrible instead of dealing with your own problems, fled, and are now telling the people who let er in how do do their jobs? seems sorta arrogant dontcha think?
and spent 8 years claiming that America's first black president wasn't born in the united states.
Well the birth certificate was fake, but who cares, anymore, obama isnt gonna be pres again
This is a guy who couldn't even get the name of the city
remember that time obama said we had 59 states? no?
that suffered a mass shooting right and took thumbs up selfies next to a baby whose parents died shielding it from gun fire. On the point of gun violence, he knows the Democrats aren't trying to take away all guns
beto is literally saying that, they are literally proposing buy backs... what is that supposed to mean to gun owners who are tired of people saying we arent trying to take the guns, when you are in fact, trying to take the guns... thats tome top tier gas-lighting fam
yet there he is at every rally screaming about how the liberals want to "destroy and repeal the second amendment." This creates nothing but division and hate, and he knows it, but because the NRA donates millions to him he'll keep on fear mongering.
NRA gets just under 40 million, or in other words, the amount of money bloomberg spent helping democrats win a bunch of house elections, i mean if you want to talk about how terrible lobbying the NRA is go ahead, but its a drop in an ocean of piss that you pretend doesnt exist
He refuses to acknowledge that the strong economy and low unemployment rate was not his doing
can you explain how it isnt? and saying " obama did that" is nonesense
and thinks that a rusty fence will solve all of America's immigration problems.
No, itll just stop a good portion, otherwise, why would isreal, mexico, and hungary erect border walls? its almost like it helps cut down on border crossings or something
He refuses to condemn dictators yet will degrade and mock a reporter (or anyone for that matter who disagrees with him) as "radical socialist liberals."
This is nonsense... cite this one, and the mocking the disabled reporter was also a nothing burger and headline nonsense
" radical socialist liberals"
Bernie sanders?
AOC? i mean at what point do we have to talk about socialism again?
He pushes state TV fox news only because they worship the ground he walks on, if that's not fascism, then I don't know what is.
Thats right, you DONT know what facism is, and thats entirely apparent... One news station that gives mostly favorable coverage is the stooge of trump, but CNN, MSNBC, NYT, ABC, etc etc etc, giving near wall to wall negative coverage since before he was elected is normal
He wont shutup about the damn 2016 election and continually acts as though it was the greatest victory of all time.
Anyone remember when hillary went around on a book tour after losing so she could ride that wave of money? Or how the first 3 years of the presidency have been non stop claims of criminal behavior and screeching for investigations is shutting up about an election?
Then there's the whole blaming muslims and Mexicans for America's problems
We could talk about how mass immigration from mexico is doing long lasting harm to the rest of the country, or that ISLAM is simply incompatible with western nations, but nooooo, its because we all hate brown people
and his sleazy lifestyle that's loaded with bankruptcies and affairs.
pretty sure a 5% bankruptcies out of countless other fiscally successive ventures is a solid rating, and
i literally dont care about his cheating on his wife. Im so desensitized to celebrity gossip nonsense that someone cheating on someone else is so common today that the fact that its suddenly world ending when trump runs for office is just silly
There's his tax returns that he promised to release but has not. What is he hiding?
You can see rachel maddow talking about some of his older tax returns, but im sure hes just secretly hiding all his evil russian money....
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@StofStuiver
"Money flows up, bc of profit over other ppls labor. That capital is then used to destroy competition, either by making them go bankrupt and or by buying them out, leading to higher profits and upscaling of that business."
what you are describing is the creation of a monopoly. which usually government breaks up, but oops, the government is corrupt and loves bribes!
"The proof is obvious, when you look at distribution of wealth. That is never gained by personal labor. Its not hard if you want to see it.
"
If i create a good, or begin a service, then begin to be paid for this service, and eventually grow to a chain is that now capitalism? Now there is a good or service that is in demand, i now have the position to create jobs for others.
"Capitalism is based on growth, bc that money flows up. It can only be maintained succesfully if economies grow."
No it can only be successful if it makes money, not necessarily " grow". owning a small chain of service stations isnt based on infinite growth. Honestly it seems like you cant see capitalism without only seeing megacorps and government helped monopolies.
"And that means it can only grow in an unlimited resource situation (which the US had and Europe lost long ago). If resources are limited, capitalism always crashes.
"
what? what does that even mean? you havent shown me how " capitalism needs infinite growth". Having everything controlled by a government, or a giant multinational corp is just oligarchy in everything but name
Let me rephrase it:
"If your wife needs to go to the MD, will you say no?
"
well of course
"If your kids need a bike to go to school, will you say no?
"
actually yes. id get a broken run down bike and either fix it myself, or my kid can help and learn some life lessons about how to care for your personal things, not exactly one to promote companies that do not share my interests
Yet your kids nor wife generate own income.
If only there wasnt this whole thing where women demanded equality in the work place and suddenly the workforce doubled and no one could afford a one income family anymore.... almost like it was planned or something..
"That is the social group. In a homogenous society that is the collective principle. You pay bc you trust the collective is beneficial. The US isnt a homogenous group. European countries were. Thats the difference"
Right and what im saying is that it was far more homogenous when it was several groups who were very similar. now the country is being flooded by indians, chinese, and south americians as well as africians...
at least we can agree on something though.. mass immigration helps no one by governments and corporate monopolies
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@StofStuiver
(condensed bits for ease of reading, its useful to try and articulate oneself to understand what and why the believe what they do)
what you are describing is the creation of a monopoly" > Which is the inevitable result of capitalism.
How? How does this come about? I bet it has something to do with government interference
" which usually government breaks up, but oops, the government is corrupt and loves bribes!" > Indeed. Which means they recognize the problem. And indeed, which they do not do enough.
What are you talking about? these super monopolies and international monoliths would never exist without government...
"But there is another problem, ..... A company does not keep a growing pot of gold. It reinvests, does research and pays out a profit. It pays this profit to its shareholders. And there is no anti-monopoly legislation against that.
Why would there be? that has nothing to do with a monopoly? and again, using profits to reinvest and grow isnt bad, and isnt required to be infinite at all... i dont know why you keep thinking that
"It is however... And it are these ppl, often through investment companies, that buy more companies, etc etc. > which leads to the accumulation of wealth (and resources) to an increasing smaller amount of people, while the rest of the people only lose. "
And how is this different than any other system ever? what you are describing is the nature of power.... wealth=resources=power doesnt matter what gaems you play
"And that is why you need a gov that 'taxes' these people. If with that money you reinject that into a capitalist (or other) economy, the money keeps flowing and it can be sustainable. But govs have not done that enough and are now indeed bought and payed for by these ppl, thus undermining all states. And only for their own benefit."
What does this have to do with the oppressive tax system we already have and the wasteful spending? the problem is government getting in the way of the people...
How is someone supposed to save for a house or save up for a business venture if every paycheck they get, the government takes a third? Good t hing the government controls everything.....
"Imo there should be a hard cap on what ppl can own"
Nope sorry, that is quite anti freedom
How many Bugatti veyrons does any one person need? And how many jets? Its become ridiculous.
And yet people get paid to build them, service them, use them... what is ridiculous? maybe we should stop paying actors and sports players so much money then? maybe we should stop supporting the people that do this shit? why do you feel the desire to control other people?
"I wasnt saying all of capitalism is bad. Which is where you seem to be steering me. No. It is good that ppl have an incentive, that they get rewarded for working hard. For making a greater effort than the next guy (who may be a lazy bum), for intellect and invention. All great and needed. That is not the argument i was making. I was only pointing at the inevitable result of capitalism, which also fails (unless you regulate it of course, which all countries do, but not in the right way/ not enough)"
Oh so you want to give government more authority over things? even though they themselves who are the ones creating these problems? its almost like government creates problems for it to solve at the cost of tax money.... weird, but yeah lets keep giving them more power and authority
"What i meant is that , if its not regulated as described above, it needs to grow to be sustainable."
No it doesnt? you have yet to explain this one to me...
"Because of those monopolies, above, accumulation would occur."
and this is because why? the government allows this to occur because it is in governments best interest
"This can be countered only in an unlimited resource situation ......... So there is no unlimited situation anymore. Which means capitalism cannot be anymore, unless it is regulated strongly. (getting the money back from the few and insert back in economy)"
Still having zero idea what you are talking about... you seem to assume that there is a maximum total amount of wealth that can be had... this is not true at all, and if we didnt unelected invisible hands in charge of currency.......
"Bc that is what the problem is. Again, i never said all of capitalism is bad. On the contrary."
Gov is the problem
"Which is a wise stance.
"
and if more people did this then we probably wouldnt be in the position we are in now.
"But you do pay for your wife and kids....And we do not refuse to pay for our social group. We just do it, bc we think it is also in our own interest and expect that they will do it for us, when we need it.
right... and heres the " but"
"Now, where the boundary of that social group is, will be subjective, but as ppl used to live, everywhere, in tribes of differing sizes, it was not abnormal to share with tribe members.
right...
"The problem arises when we are faced with either great poverty, which will result in a decreasing size of that social group we are willing to pay for. And when our group is polluted with non group members... (we allready covered that i think and agreed... i think?)
What? what the hell does this mean???
"This part was about your unwillingness to pay taxes. Which i understand, bc you do not see your 'countrymen' as members of your group. But if your countrymen would be members of your group, you would. So you are not against taxes (helping a collective, of which you are part of), but your problem is with the group. (which is not your prefered group)
"
No my problem is that millions of poor third worlders get to hop in, get pampered, given everything they need, loans, healthcare, and they pop out tons of kids, they all are now " citizens" and can collect more benefits... im tired of paying for bullshit... men pay more taxes on average than women, and the vast majority comes from white males. im tired of the entire world on my fucking back...
" Indeed. With the addition that Europe had 1 homogenous group per country and the US had 2 (ot counting indigenous ppl). The white Americans and the descendants of the American black slaves. And that was more than enough problems right there."
wish we sent them all back tbh... would have saved endless nightmares... but then again, it was all part of the plan
"It seems we are not far apart at all. And i was wondering why just now. Imo, from what i experienced with Americans, a lot react strongly on critique on capitalism."
Because the idea of capitalism isnt how you keep describing, and this always comes on the topic of more taxes or welfare or more social programs...
"Often i am immediately shoved in the communism corner, So i was wondering why. Is it included in Americans idea of capitalism that you oppose monopolies and it therefor goes without saying?"
Because this country was created and became what it was by the free enterprise of the individuals who made up the country. then the government kept getting involved and things would keep getting worse
"And then, what is the stance as you see it, on ppl that are filthy rich because of it. And i dont mean ppl with 10 million, or even 1 billion, but above that."
Who are you talking about? you mean the movie producers/hollywood/sports/heads of industry? or are you talking about soros, rothschild or most of the others i dont know of who have more control over the world than any government? because i think you can answer that yourself
"Does it also go without saying that these should not be allowed such richess? It is odd to me, bc in Europe its like everyone knows capitalism leads to this and that, so there is hardly any discussion over it."
what are you talking about???
"And since we had all these social mechanics in our economy, that doesnt mean we do not have competition and capitalism , or are socialistic. Far from it."
But you still have uber rich over there and oppressive laws? i dont see how its all that much different
Anyway, we are nearing the end of our discussion and i would like to thank you for remaining civil ;] Much appreciated!
no worries, whats the point of talking about something if you dont intend to in good faith try to change someones mind
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@StofStuiver As close to free as you can, within regional/countrywide limits of course.
To elaborate and try and get you to see what i mean, let me give you some personal examples.
I want to sell cars, well i cant sell more than X without the government stepping in and forcing me to pay for and buy licenses.
I want open a bar/arcade, dozens of permits, licenses, fees, regulation...
I simply want to sell things on ebay, i STILL have to pay the government
I want to simply earn a living, government takes a third of my income, and small percentages more every time i use my money.
How am i supposed to get ahead if the government keeps me down?
Seems to me that all these things dont seem to bother those who already have the money and resources needed or have the power to lobby, but keep the regular joe out of starting a business
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@StofStuiver
"So you are saying businesses will use cheapest labor?"
It is a matter of scale. small scale, you would see a better return in house, but in large scale its a little different. It all comes down to greed but its generally the larger businesses that end up being a problem again
Doesnt that apply in a region aswell? How about child laborers? And who is going to regulate it? Can businesses import laborers?
Well if you couldnt outsource without hefty penalties it would make it more cost effective to work inside the country, plus we already have the base understanding of preserving the environment and having just labor laws. If we stopped the endless waves of immigrants and actually removed the millions of people already here you might see some changes in overall business practices if you couldnt get away with undercutting local labor with cheap foreign labor
"Its a bit odd, bc i take a new direction and the first thing you do is regulate free trade."
nothing is ever " free" if there are no rules, it isnt a game to be played fairly, its a free for all.
"But youre still unwilling to see money flows up i take it. So i have to type an entire comparison to show it."
I am 20 yo.
My father was a succesful fisherman. I inhereted 2 fishing boats and a nice wad of capital. Impossible? No, i just skip a bit.
In my region there are 10 fishermen, 8 have 1 boat and 2 have 2 boats.
I am eager to expand. I have enough money to buy out 1, which i do. I still have a bit of capital left, but not enough to buy out another.
I have an uncle as captain on my 2nd boat. My dad already had that setup. We have an arrangement that works fine:
We deduct cost of operating that boat; crew, oil, repairs, etc. What is left is normally profit. He gets 40%. I take 60. The boat is already payed off.
I make a same arrangement for the 3rd boat with a cousin. This boat needs to be payed off. From the 60% i take, i calculated that i need to deduct 1/3 (20 % of total) to win my capital back in 10 years.
There are now 12 boats, of which 3 are mine.
I am a great fisherman, or i am very lucky, who knows. I tell my captains where to go fish. We are usually in the top 3 of fish caught.
My income compared to single boat fishermen is : 100% + 60% + 40% = 200%. I save a lot of money.
After 5 years i hear of one fisher with 2 boats that he wants out. He isnt doing well, so i make him an offer. I need to go to the bank to get some financing, but it is still profitable to me.
(Sounds like your father worked really hard to pass on something valuable to you, and you did well with it. would have been a shame if the government came in and took 45% of the cash in taxes)
.... time passes
I am now 45 years old. I own 9 of 12 boats. I have financing running on 4 boats still and im making a good amount of money. There is plenty of room to expand even more.
Im thinking about starting my own intermediary company (sort of a fish aution) to skip the middle man. Talk to the bank. Yes i can.
So i put a captain on my boat aswell and focus on running that business.
I do better than the intermediary that i used to sell my fish to, bc hey, i have the goods. They are trying all sorts of things, but they are too late. Its mine.
They go out of business. I didnt make friends, but who cares.
I force the remaining fishermen to work for me, or go sell their fish elsewhere. They eventually agree.
I am now 60 years old. Own all boats and the intermediary. No one even dares to start a new boat in this region.
skipping some time
I am now 85. All boats and the intermediary have been fully payed for. And i have millions in capital to throw around.
My son inherets the business. And he is going to expand even more. We can easily get the next region, who are all single boat captains.
How can you not see money always flows up???
I mean sounds great and all but what would you even do to prevent this? are you denying you worked hard to earn what you have? Did you not create wealth by doing a job better and more profitable? are you not employing others? wealth isnt always something stolen, it is also created. how much and what right does the government have to take it? as long as you arent over fishing the location to the point of scarcity i dont see what the problem is? Isnt the whole idea to give your future family more than your previous generations?
On a secondary point, most wealthy end up losing their wealth after 2 or 3 generations. Mostly stemming from not understanding the value of the money, and the work that went into creating this vast wealth, and it is usually mishandled and squandered. People who are given things dont know what its like to earn them. you respect things more when you have to earn/make/create things yourself so you take better care of them than you would if you were just handed everything.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-90-of-rich-people-squander-their-fortunes-2017-04-23
So how is your scenario inherently bad? what would you want changed about it? its not as if you are throwing out the native fishermen and hiring foreign labor at below market wages, or selling at a loss to undercut your competitors because you have deep pockets and they dont. And i still dont even understand how this is " always moving up" its not taking wealth from other people, its creating wealth from your own actions. I would not feel the need to overtly and horribly tax you or your hypothetical family as you pass it on.
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@harrisonjodeit4340 "The fact that a black market still exists for it, here in Minnesota, proves that most people who use weed do not do so as any medically recognized therapeutic (because, again, it has become MORE illegal to use for fun). And I think we all knew what it's mainly used for already."
and pretending that it wont be profitable to sell even when legal is lunacy
"Pick a state and you will either find governmental meddling which furthers the black market or else the dying out of that market."
Even if there was zero laws or regulations on drugs, there would still be a market to sell and profit. pretending that the government is the only reason black markets exist is just hilarious. They dont make them better, but they exist to serve a market, weather the government interferes or not, still means there's a market. The demand will not disappear if its made legal... And even if it was cheaper safer and easier to buy from a legal dispensary, i wouldnt buy it, id buy it from someone else. because F the state
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@Matt-ww9wv You claimed that " democracy now" was " quality news" and the first 3 links were garbage when i searched for them. what more do you want me to substantiate?
Here
"for months trump spread k0vid lies"
"i fear trump will exploit his k0vid infection to further destabilize the election"
"Trump tests positive for k0vid after months of downplaying and mocking biden for wearing a mask"
" the climate crisis cant take 4 more years of trump we must push biden from the leff"
If you think these are fair and unbiased headlines, this just further illustrates the point that the media is clearly the problem here
"If you instead disagree with Trump being bad or that such argumentation in of itself is hyperbolic, I can only imagine you live in a safe space echo chamber."
Yeah, like the kind of " echo chamber" that says the above headlines are fair and quality journalism?
"I can educate you on any topic you value given Trump has basically weakened all reasonable values a person can have. "
Oh yeah totally fair here
"Whether that's general freedom, economics, health, foreign affairs, our future sustainability etc. whatever you prefer. He's been a thoroughly lousy president from the values of any rational human being.
"
Yeah totally lets go there,. please bring up how much of everything you know and how trump is bad at all of it to convince me im not talking to an sheep to the media of a different flavor...
"Perhaps if someone only cares about illegal immigrants an argument can be made in favor of Trump, barely, but that's about as good as it gets while the rest of the country is in decline."
He is absolute trash on immigration and thats the problem, but yeah, go ahead and tell me how fair and quality your news sources are
"That however is an irrational value to begin with as illegal immigration barely effects the nation."
Flat out false
"It's mostly an attractive topic for irrational or xenophobic people that was inspired after 2001.
"
Absolute garbage... the fact that you think you have any authority to tell me about things while spouting such nonsense is almost sad
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nyx
-what other research on gun violence do you need? im more interested in long term effects of SSRI usage seeing how most of those mass shooters were on some form of them or other.
-you cant hold a car manufacturer liable if someone takes a car and drives it into a mob of people, that sounds idiotic. good luck enforcing anything with 3d printing
-no, no fingerprint bullshit, no electronic gun locks, those are ok for where you STORE weapons, but not on the weapons itself. " BTW unsafe storage is also a crime"
-you already need to be 18 to have a gun, and parental consent for something other than 18 i dont seem to have an issue with
-you clearly dont understand what a bump stock is if you think it has anything to do with reloading. also, you can get the same effect of a bump stock using your thumb and a belt loop... also, you still need to reload because a bump stock just moves the gun back and forth so the gun moves the trigger in and out of being pressed.
-we already have restrictions on interstate commerce as weapons are registered with serial numbers " removing serial numbers is already a crime"
-why are you banning the ar 15? less than 5% of gun deaths, columbine didnt use rifles
-the "gunhole loophole" isnt a thing, please prove me wrong
-waiting periods dont do anything if an attack is preplanned, i dont see why you think it would.... plus we already have them
-FFL dealers must use background checks on all firearm sales, we already have them
-you realize it takes up to 3 years to be removed from the no fly list and you can be placed on there after doing nothing wrong. no...
-we already have background checks, they dont work if the police and the FBI dont do their jobs, just like in the parkland shooting, he should have been flagged on the list but the FBI and local PD didnt do their jobs... laws wont fix that
-who deems people " in crisis"? the same people who take your guns away? i can see this being abused greatly
-felons cant pass a background check, along with a slew of other reasons to not pass a background check, of course they only work when the local PD and FBI seem to do their jobs, which they are surprisingly incapable of doing
-most licenses require training courses, thats kinda the idea behind the license that you heed to get....
-why not let concealed carry permit holders, who already know all about gun safety and probably range shoot to carry in schools instead of barring them?
-the issue is more with nationwide views of mental illness more than school issues with it.
-" armed guards " or cops.... so the good guy is supposed to stop the bad guy ? but only if they are state funded? how about letting staff and teachers who are already licesnesd to carry, to carry in the school, look at that, no more budget needed
-carrying under the influence is already a crime
-trafficking and straw purchasing is already against the law trafficking is avg 8 years and gun theft is avg 2 years
-child molesters arent allowed to have firearms because of the aforementioned criminal behavior
-well chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country and one of the highest murder rates, seems like gun laws arent the problem there
-money in politics and you are worried about the nra? lets not take into account the DNC and clinton foundation take billions from other countries, i would love money out of ploitics but thats not gonna happen, you just seem to be barking up the wrong tree.
-ending zero tolerance would help, i dont se an issue with letting kids fight outside by the flagpole because nothing has stopped bullies, they just get around the rules, take that from someone who was bullied in school up to 11th grade, zero tolerance doesnt work as i cant fight back without being just as bad as the bully
-thats already the FBI's job, if you mean making sure teh FBI already DOES their job, well thats a different story you can look at parkland to see...
See its quite obvious you dont know anything about firearms from this long list... I get it, you want something done to stop these shootings, but the sad fact is nothing you suggested would have stopped any of the shootings. guns and ammunition are already taxed
" i dont own guns"
nothing has been shown to be more apparent to me
if you did, you might know a little more
LAWS DONT WORK IF THOSE IN CHARGE FAIL TO DO THEIR JOBS
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@JakeM218 " you know its been looked after"
No, you dont, you dont know anything. If you knew anything about how most dealerships operate, there would be very little faith in those records. You know nothing of how the cars been mistreated, or even if the services paid for and given receipts for are even done in the first place.
With phone repairs, what’s to stop aftermarket companies making cheaper inferior parts - screens etc when one breaks.
How is this any different than OE manufactures using tech that breaks after a short time with no way to repair it? why does it matter when most of the OE parts are made with the same materials and process as the " inferior" ones, you know, because they probably came from the same factory to begin with.
Without software blocks, you would have no idea this has been done.
Yes, yes you would.
Buying secondhand then becomes a minefield, and residual values drop, so consumers lose money.
And that is how its always been and always will be, except now we have more and more power congregating at the top, forcing this terrible practices and have people like you defend it,.
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@JakeM218
Why are resale values higher a lot higher on an Apple computer, than a windows machine?
Because there are more windows machine manufactures than apple manufactures? Because apple has spent decades on an " image" and thats what sells? it has nothing to do with anything apple does with their actual products. its literally name brand recognition
As long as the longevity is present, then there’s nothing to worry about with manufacturers being solely responsible for repairing their own products. If the longevity isn’t there, then a product will get a negative reputation and the manufacturer will develop better replacement parts, or a re-design.
Except they dont, because we are literally having this discussion right now. There is no longevity when manufacturers push planned obsolescence and parts designed to break after warranty
I’ve got a stack of windows laptops that have failed over time, but I’m still using a 2009 MacBook Pro, and it’s flawless.
Thats great my 2007 macbook pro is currently a paperweight because of software issues apple has. but i can still boot up all my windows machines and they all work as intended. Every apple product i have had over the years has been less than great...
I also love knowing that the secondhand devices I’ve bought are genuine.
You literally cant know that if it isnt in brand new packaging
People can make inferior batteries. I can buy a battery kit for an old iPhone dirt cheap online, or I can go to Apple and pay 60.
And the fact that the batteries are made in the same factories in the same countries means they are totally different. ANd its not like OE apple batteries are even that good batteries....
The security in knowing that the battery genuinely meets or exceeds safety requirements, and my phone will be opened and worked on properly, means I’ll choose Apple any day over a third party repair shop.
Wow, have you actually ever been to an apple repair shop? i know people that worked there, and you are really putting alot of faith in something that cant hold it.....
Good keep up the suckling to a massive companies that gives zero fucks about you and doesn't care about your products
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@screwgoogle4993 Its like you have no idea what you are talking about
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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@jonatand2045
"None of that changes that overall allowing higher density is a good thing, since low density sprawl is inherently inefficient/costly."
Again, this line of thinking ends with section 8, housing projects, commiebloc apartments, and flavellas. No,
"I said you could keep your backyard, meaning that you are free to, not that it will be affordable in a high density area."
So because we have a never ending influx of people, we need to force people to live closer together because its expensive for people to have space. yeah no thanks
"It may sound harsh, but that is how urbanization happens."
Once more... I dont want everywhere to be like the above repeated paragraph. Poele arent meant to live like that
"People benefit from the urbanization that happened before, but they don't like it when it happens to them"
WTF are you talking about? a small town gets turned into a city, and you just say deal with it its better. No thanks
"However, home prices do go down if demand is met. "
You cannot meet demand when the demand is never ending immigration... you clearly arent seeming to get this...
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@jonatand2045
"Affordable housing disappears because lack of development, the kind of thing you have been saying you don't want, even if it was for locals only. "
WTF are you talking about? where do you think the millions of people who come in the country every year stay? they need to live somewhere?? are you really this ignorant of reality?
"Immigration is irrelevant to the fact that supplying demand is a good thing. That is what i have been trying to make clear. "
And what you seem to be fundamentally
unable to grasp, is that immigrants need to live somewhere. This somehow doesnt calculate in your supply demand equation whatsoever.
"Ethnic displacement has to do with conflict and persecution, you don't know what you are talking about."
replacing one group of people with another group of people is displacement, on ethnic lines. please keep telling me i dont know what im talking about, its funny.
"nation has the right to prohibit all immigration, but that doesn't mean it should or that it benefits from forbidding it."
So when a nations people are replaced by never ending waves of now immigrants, what then? do you have any idea what you are talking about?? because i dont think you do .
"Your simple solution turns out to be not so simple and not very utilitarian."
Saying no, and mass deporting people isnt a solution? bullsht!
"The nation is deciding by itself, even if it isn't what you would like, that is why those pesky globalists are used as an scapegoat."
its like you are incapable of having this discussion... unbelievable
How are the natives deciding for themselves when they have been denied any voice? the government and global NGOS keep doing whatever tit is they don and just manufacture consent for whatever they need. Perfect example is California Proposition 187 (also known as the Save Our State (SOS) initiative) 1994 ballot initiative to establish a state-run citizenship screening system and prohibit undocumented immigrants from using non-emergency health care, public education, and other services in the State of California. The citizens voted for it, and the government went and gave them the finger. Another example? the 1965 immigration act, which was sold to the voting public as to not disrupt the demographic makeup of the nation. oops that was a lie too.
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@jonatand2045
"I know immigration is a factor on this, but you seem unable to give a straight answer. Try answering yes or no, no buts. Do you agree supply should be allowed to meet demand?"
No, as we should lower the demand before we try to increase the supply... seems like a self explanatory answer for you
"Don't you mean ethnic cleansing or forced displacement? If not, where does the UN refer to ethnic displacement?'
the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
a Killing members of the group;
b Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
So between mass immigration, affirmative action, media propaganda, and a very antiwhyte culture, you have everything lined up for disaster. If you want to see what the US will look like if nothing is done, take a peek at whyte south africians...
"Anyways, a white person getting 'replaced' by a brown person or viceversa isn't inherently a bad thing. "
Im not going to engage with this ludacris point. you are insane
"The fear of replacement by itself is quite xenophobic."
Yeah man, its almost like self preservation is a thing... you are insane
"Mass deportations would likely require the removal of people who already contribute to society"
I literally do not care. they contribute to the parallel societies i mentioned earlier. they work for their own families, their own kind, send money back to their home countries, keep their languages and culture too. they do not assimilate. and never will.
187 violated the constitution, and the act of 1967 was passed by the elected congress a good while ago. Xenophobes really dislike NGOs, i guess they need something to blame.
Insane... ILLEGALS flood into a nation, (BTW a governments job is to protect citizens and borders, they failed) and wanted to help fix the problem, and you cheer on big daddy government taking the choice away from the people? you are insane
you truly either arent grasping what im trying to tell you, or you already dont care, and you are a souless monster
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@jonatand2045
"Thanks for the answer, now i know you would throw pragmatism out of the window out of spite."
So not wanting to support things i dont like means im throwing out pragmatism? cmon dude
"Congratulations, you stretched the definition of genocide to the point of uselessness. Immigration is not g-cide. Trying to reduce race inequality is not a form of genocide even if it is controversial. Racism isn't genocide either."
If one group of people, who made a nation, become a minority in said nation. how is this now g-cide? Again, whyte south Africans is the future for America, and you arent even addressing the point i brought up. Insane
"I said a "replacement" is not bad thing, but you missed the context of course. They are being replaced by other humans who happen to be of other color or somewhere else because low fertility. Is the low fertility bad? Yes. However, is someone else "taking their place" due to that bad? "
Are you listening to yourself? why is " more immigration " the response to low fertility rates? Are people nothing but replaceable cogs in a global machine to you? you sound like you have a disturbed view of the world man....
"No. To me collective self preservation means humanity surviving, not arbitrary tribalism, i guess that makes me a monster."
Yeah kinda, do you even understand the concept of a nation? It sounds like you are a " were all the same" kinda guy, and spoilers, we arent all the same. And tribalism is litterally a natural phenomenon. You are ignoring nature, and the entire concept of a nation...
"It is the goverment job, however what constitutes as protecting is and how far it should go to pursue it is controversial."
Literally keeping people from invading. and they let them in anyway, and ship them all over the country. How is this a the government doing its job? we never asked for this?
"How much immigrants assimilate can be affected by how much they are welcomed, it can be a self fulfilling prophecy."
Most immigrants today will never assimilate, and the numbers they are pouring in at, they never NEED to assimilate. You talk like you have zero clue about the subject of immigration....
"That fact does limit the amout the US can accept. Remittances take money away on one hand, but can alleviate more severe poverty on the other. Again such things aren't black amd white."
Its literally an invasion of leeches, leeching off the success of my nation, to fund their families back home, and why should we allow this? You talk like you yourself are already a " global citizen" and " borders are just lines on paper" kind of people, and thats actually more disturbing...
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cant see your comment unless i go incognito BTW
1. America is divided on helping anyone because we are sick kf being world police.
Not really, "81 million votes* lol most people are NPCs and believe whatever the "authoritative sources" tell them, this also implies that the people of the nation have any control over their governments (spoiler, they dont)
2. The only reason why some Americans are gun hoe over Russia is the 5 year old Russia destroying America's democracy narrative.
they are "gung ho" (lol) because the media they consume tells t hem to
3. Americans are sick of manufacturing being gutted so other nations can reap the benefits.
and? that is why the powers that be are importing over 1 million foreigners a year. to replace the increasingly unruly cattle already here, with dumber easier to manipulate cattle...
4. America has its own domestic problems and nobody cares about global issues unless the media rolls out the red carpet.
And vast swaths of the population get riled up by whatever red team blue team garbage is pumped out any given time...
The age demographics crisis in Japan people have talked about for years is coming full steam for almost every country the difference is Japan had 40 years to figure out their issues which is to unload exports to a consumer rich country.
The solution isnt to import more people,
There won't be space in the future for capitalism and Socialism... despite loving capitalism we need something different and nobody is doing the work except for THE GREAT RESET Fucks. So people better get on the ball before the bald headed German is calling the shots...
wtf are you talking about? the people in charge of the great reset are the ones controlling world governments already... this is the plan they set in motion....
WEF isn't trying to destroy our system to make a new one they are seeing our system is going to be destroyed reguardless and they want to be there to be the first.
THEY RUN THE SHOW NOW wtf are you talking about???
America can leave, we have a healthy age demographics plus Trump saw the signs and restructured our trade deals.
Trump was essentially useless. he was a relief valve to the growing discontent with W voters... and he did nothing to actually solve anything, just played his roll, just like every other XOG candidate
You can see it with Merkels reaction when Trump didn't give Germany the same typical deal we always gave them.
Literally all a show
America has the largest arable land that doesn't require fertilizer input.
We have a large navy that can protect our trade lines around the world.
We have access to Pacific and Atlantic Ocean.
We don't share a continent with a super power.
And they are all under control of ZOG
That why I am saying America next war is with Mexico because of the 50 year long trade deal, America and Mexico need the cartels gone for this too work.
cartels are nothing compared to the people who actually run the show,....
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@felixfungle-bung4688
Youth work and join security forces.
Why work for a system that h8tes you and promotes foreigners over you?
Youth pay taxes, tuition, buy houses, cars, clothes, have kids and pay more taxes.
Cant afford anything anyway, taxation is theft, spend on useless eaters who are imported in large numbers inflating cost of living, homes, goods, cars etc...
When you turn 35 to 45 you start spending less, the kids get older and you save money for retirement.
45-60 you see soley working on retirement and when you do retire you no longer pay the brunt of the taxes.
And ill never get social security when i retire because the system is broken. Savings and retirements will be meaningless with inflation and raising cost of living, while the system imports replacements, feeds, clothes', educates, and give them a place to live on my tax dollar...
A country can't survive if most of the population isn't working and taking from the system.
A nation cant survive demographic replacement. I dont care if the system crashes and burns, i really really dont. It isnt for me, it doesnt benefit me, it only takes from me, and then spits on me
If there isn't Youth to grow out economic sectors than your country becomes stagnant.
GOOD, i dont care! when everything fails, all the useless eaters go first. then people who are able to be self sustaining, can build something worth protecting.
again most countries have horrible age demographics.
Yeah, its called a reduction. almost like you cant have infinite growth forever...
"You only care about South Africa? "
No, i only care about actual south afrticians... you know, the whyte ones who are being regularly deleted for being white and owning sht...
Well it's fucked....
Yeah, thanks in no small part to nonwhytes
You seem to think that we need to keep the system afloat... why? you havent given me a single reason why keeping a system that h8tes me and wants me dead is a good plan?
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@vladislavssirins7226
yes..you suppoort all the wars US involved..cos you are not protesting that..
I was in 6th grade when we invaded iraq, what you expect 12/13 year old to understand geopolitics and propaganda enough to protest???
you are more worryied about protests in Russia or China...
the fuck are you talking about?
I hate china, china sucks, everything is made in china and it sucks... HK giving china the middle finger is just a personal enjoyment
you went to Vietnam war,,you sent your boys to die there..hte war started cos of a fake accusations of vietnamese atacked your ship(which didn't happend).how many american citizens died in that war?how many vietnamese? you went to Iraq..and ,again,you lied about WMD...what did you (folk)do about that? nothing again...it is easy way to blame government...so do something about that gov. then/ but no,you better worry about chinese government...china is not going with war to other countries and not killing millions civilians and not destroying and not destabilizing regions on other part of the world,thousands of miles away..US does
Look buddy, china and the US are plenty buddy buddy and thats the entire fucking problem. you think i wanted everything my country gets to be made in china? you think thats fun for me? a guy who likes fixing things living in a world where its easier to buy new cheap shit from china than getting your old reliable stuff fixed?
You think my government cares what the citizens think? what the fuck do you think the propaganda is for?
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@Betta66 no... they broke the law, and invaded my borders. they are an invasion..
in·va·sion
/inˈvāZHən/
noun
-an instance of invading a country or region with an armed force.
-an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.
-an unwelcome intrusion into another's domain.
hits 2 of three so you tell me what is and isnt an invasion based on your personal opinion all you want, it aint true...
"They should ideally be crossing legally, I will agree, but these aren't Spanish conquistadors trying to convert the entire population to their way of life or the aliens from Independence Day blowing up landmarks. If it ever gets to that point, I will reconsider. For now, they're crossing the border illegally, but that is not inherently a violent crime."
more apologist rhetoric...
They come in, they do not assimilate, this is why we have press 1 for english press 2 for spanish all over most of the country... jesus christ, you are either severely delusional, or you actually get paid for this nonesense
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@Betta66 I went to school with a few Hispanic students. I had a Spanish professor in college who was born in Spain. My dad lived in a city with a moderately sized Hispanic community for most of this decade. I bring that up because when you say Spanish speakers don't assimilate, I'm left to wonder if you've actually met one of them. Or if you know that the United States doesn't have an official language. What, are you going to bitch about the epidemic of Japanese invaders every time you go out for sushi? I don't want to be so cocky as to jump to conclusions like you do and say you're more delusional than I am. I can understand if you have a differing view on immigration, but if the option of pressing 2 for Spanish on a phone call, DON'T FUCKING PRESS IT!! How much tin foil do you choke on daily that you think this is the worst thing about illegal immigration?
Whew, you sure got mad... so why do we have all these immigrants? if they assimilate, they should all be speaking english after a few generations... Or are you gonna pretend that the irish, french, dutch, italian, german, immigrants learn english? Japanese? why does that matter? Japanese americians lean english too lmao, maybe we shouldnt be letting in millions and millions of south americians every fuckin year...Sounds like if you dont speak the language of the locals you havent really assimilated.....
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@JTonyArts
Sure there are problems with the Democratic Party, but as a whole it is more about helping people than the “rugged individuality” bullshit of the right.
what by pandering to specials interest groups, calling the opposition racist, and demanding we give people more free shit? how is this helping people? its enslaving them to the state
Plus the Democratic Party contains within it progressives who truly are trying to make the country more about “us” and less about “me”. The right doesn’t have anything like that. They have white supremicists and power hungry.
" progressives" are literal cancer, full stop.
we cant have an " us" if we invite in the entire world and give everyone endless free shit. " white supremes" what a joke, as if defending borders and not wanting to become a minority in your own homeland makes you a white supreme. what a joke
The problem with the right is their basic morals. They suck.
you cant just say that like its fact. i guess individualism, self reliance, self improvement, and freedom suck... oh thats right these have nothing to do with your definition of" right wing ideals" because reasons...
The basic morals of the left are actually based on community values and working for what is best for as many as possible. It is the money and the political i op rices that twists it.
yeah sure, its totally not that promising good feelings, free stuff, and " togetherness" isnt a perfect ploy to soak up supporters who will support their corruption the same way the " right" does?
That means if you remove the money and politics from the right you still have a bunch of selfish bastards out for themselves while if you remove politics and money from the left you have a basic set of ideals that can help everyone.
This is the most laughable thing ive ever read
Harris was a slap in the face because of her center ism. So no, I’m not sold on snake oil,
bruh " the left cares about people and wants to help and the right are all racist bigots" is so far down the snake oil bottle you stop drinking it...
but what I do know what is most wrong with our country is the fear the MAGA hats have in losing what they have when what they have is really pretty shitty.
everything is shitty
I point to health insurance and how holding on to the turd in your hand keeps you from grasping the gift of gold being offered to you.
the gift of what? more endless government spending, more skyrocketing debt, more immigration, more offshoring, more corruption? you are deluded dude, and i dont even have a fuckin maga hat
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@JTonyArts
One, the right are racist.
No, they really arent, but ok
"Trump is a huge racist and if you support him as the right does you either are racist or you don’t think racism is bad enough not to support. It is simple.
"
Its not that simple, because you are wrong. but nothing will ever convince you otherwise
Two. If you have endless free stuff why not give it?
Because you dont have endless fre stuff. thats not how any of this works. you arent giving away " free stuff" you are giving away stuff that is either locked around the taxpayers neck as public debt, or is created with more money printing, inflating the currency already in existence.
If you have ways to make people’s lives better doesn’t that make it better for everyone?
Because you cant do everything and help everyone with everyone elses money?
Why are you so afraid of seeing other people get something for free when you already have yours?
1. because its not free
2. Its not about seeing others happy or them getting things, its about not wanting to be forced to pay for it, ot be forced to have my money devalued while i hold it.
3. because i dont get any
4. im the wrong skin color for freebies
Why is it so hard to share good fortune?
Because thats not what free government program stuff is. you want to share good fortune? make a non profit, volunteer within local groups, become one of those local groups. stop making the government to it by forcing their hands into my wallet
That’s exactly what is wrong with the right. Selfish individualism. That’s not freedom. That’s slavery to your stuff and trying to make others slaves to your stuff.
Its not at all and you have such a warmed understanding of things you THINK are " the right" but are just distorted nonsense being pump-ed into your head. Why is it wrong to not want toe government to keep taking your stuff even though its both yours and you worked to earn it. why does the government reserve the right to take it and give it to others
I’m not going to argue further. It is clear you don’t really want to talk, you just want to tell me I’m wrong.
Because what you are saying is factually inaccurate, and has very little bearing on reality. this is the result of endless propaganda pumped into most major nations for the last 40 years
The video is bullshit and the conservatives have driven this country to ruin for 4+ years
fucking laughable
and I don’t think Biden has the gravitas to pull it back together after the dumpster fire Trump has put us through.
Oh yeah, its a dumpster fire because of what trumps done... gimmie a fucking break, you are so lost inside your own propaganda
At least there is a chance for some mild improvement. In spite of folks like what you seem to be telling me you represent. Th rump lost and that’s a blessing. Hopefully folks like JD will shut the fuck up.
You seem like such an angry person... almost like you are constantly being told your worldview is based on lies and propaganda, and you cant reconcile it, so you just double down...
it isnt healthy
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@JTonyArts
You outed yourself as racist. “I’m the wrong skin color for freebies.” I’m assuming you are white (I don’t know this and don’t really care) and think that whites don’t get government assistance. You would be wrong. Whites in this country get far more government assistance than any other demographic even including population differences. Way way more. Red hat Republican run states are the poorest in the nation, and receive more government assistance which includes the large population of whites in those states, than any other state demographic. If you are white, you’re the exact color to get “freebies.”
Its almost like you arent listening. " whites use welfare more" yes because there are currently still more whites than any other group average. but this doesn't look at per population percentage numbers, and which case you would see whites are not the highest per population to take welfare. this also ignores the endless grants, programs, advocacy groups, special interest groups, that specifically non whites ( and other " minority" groups can be given for things other than merit)
You also showed yourself to be the exact epitome of the selfish right wing moneygrubbrr with the statement about “I don’t get any.” You’re not willing to improve your community if it means giving some of what you have for the good of all. That’s a large part of what isms destroying America snd youvadmit fully that that is you.
No, thats " im tired of being taken from, and never given to" how is this selfish? you clearly missed the plot here and just instead injected your " this is what right wing is like nonsense into anything i say.
I’m not angry at you. Actually I feel sorry for you. Pity.
your pity is wasted on me, you should pity yourself for actually believing the nonsense that pumped into your head
Now, I’ve asked you to leave me alone, I’ve answered your final question, so how bout it. Please do not contact me again or I’ll have to accuse you of stalking me like an obsessed teenager. Caio Bella.
This is a youtube comments section? i can reply if i feel like it? " stalking like an obsessed teenager" seems more like projection to me buddy. but thanks, you clearly demonstrated to me you have zero capacity to understand anything said by people who dont agree with your worldview.
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@YakuzaWu
1. I addressed your point.
You literally avoided my point. My point isnt about who wants to move where, its about national sovereignty. You just went on a rant saying " well white people dont want to move to non white countries so whats the problem"
"You’re using those countries as justification of removing no whites thus creating a forced white ethno state"
Pointing out that every group and culture can have a defacto ethnostate, EXCEPT whites is my entire point here.
"And I’m pointing out their demographics are not shaped by ethno states but that white people refuse to immigrate enough to create a large white populous."
White people just want to exist, non whites are the ones that want to move to white countries... why is that?
2. Natural in group preference is fine it happens it’s apart of nature and can be found among many majority or all white spaces all over the UK. Wanting to forcefully have ONLY white spaces akin to BLM’s push for black only spaces is fearful racist trash.
You arent even addressing what im talking about and are arguing for something im not even talking about.
You seem to fail to grasp the concept of ": diversity is anti white. that whitepoeple arent allowed to remain white in their own countries because you seem to think everyone who wants to move there should be able to... they shouldnt.
3. “It doesn’t matter” well there’s your dullard bigotry
So because you dont understand statistical reality, and the nature of islam, im a bigot... cmon dude try harder
"Wanting to persevere your land, culture and heritage isn’t racist... but wanting to kick out all non whites and assuming all Muslims and minorities are out to kill ya and want to take everything from you is racist.
Buddy, you cant seem to grasp what im trying to articulate here. If whites dont remove non whites from their lands, they arent going to stay white for much longer. You cant defend and preserve your culture, land and heritage if you are forced to compete with an endless stream of non whites coming from countries with much higher birth rates...
you cant grasp this for some reason
“Let me guess, you’re none white”
you’ll never know lmao. I may be Caucasian I may be East Asian I may be part West African (if you know you know)
You clearly are anti white based on your behavior, so i can only assume...
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@jlogan2228 or better yet, you are doing a job, end up taking on other roles above your pay and skill grade, and when you demand a promotion, its denied because you dont have a magic piece of paper, so they hire some new guy with a magic paper, and lo and behold, he is an idiot who cant work in the real world... and they pay them almost the same as they pay the non degree guy...
or better yet, from personal experience working at Infosys, your new manager is an H1b visa worker with whatever degrees he has, and he doesnt know simple windows keyboard shortcuts, and cant manage to change a battery in a macbook, but hes making 80k a year because.... reasons?
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@paidgovernmentshill_6950
"You mean you've gone from asserting that the collapse wasn't what the "official story" (whatever that is) says it was, because it want hit by a plane to pretending you don't care because you know you don't have a chance of backing up your claim, scooter."
no, wow, its almost like you have no intention of being honest in this discussion, LOL who could have seen THAT coming. THANKS. I guess a government allowing an attack to take place would NEVER happen, and they would NEVER immediately pass legislation afterwards in an extremely short period of time, when normally government is slow and girding. While a special individual who just so happen to not be in the building one day, just so happens to get a free demolition, plus an insurance payout for his lease ownership of the property...you can assert all you want
"So, is being hit by a plane the only way a building will collapse?"
No, it doesnt, but good job detective, youve cracked the case
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@paidgovernmentshill_6950 "absolute nonsense"
Ok
Nation
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root -gene "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
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@0Doves0 Comment keeps getting yeeted and i cant figure out why
also reporting false crime convictions? If not then they're obviously not reporting false hate crimes.'''
well theres a website called fakehatecrimes you can look it up. but yeah, sure buddy, " hate crimes" only seem to work one way against yitey . Cant hate hate crimes against yite people in a yite country, nope
"Also, continuing with the anecdotes as if they trump statistics."
And the statistics are in my favor, as they say exactly what i said they said... please go off some more though
"Also, the right tells the b community to focus on b on b crime more than hate crimes since it's more prevalent. So by that logic, you should focus on w on w crime since that is also more prevalent."
Yeah, but W people arent committing half the violent crime in the entire country, even though they are more than half the population. a tiny fraction of the population (B males) is committing almost half of all violent crime in the country, and you are claiming these things are comparable... LOL ok
"Lastly, notice how crime is mostly skewed in poor urban areas"
Notice how those areas are disproportionally non yite? notice how there are more poor yites than blacks, but you dont see massive crime rates in poor yite neighborhoods please go off more about something ive spend literally years paying attention to lol
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@0Doves0
"So now you're denying fbi statistics after throwing them out multiple times? Ok 😂"
Nope, im denying your ability to read what is written before you friend haha
"really has nothing to do with race but a multitude of other factors."
Suuuuure
"What you're doing is comparing apples to oranges. Most poor whites live in rural areas. Rural areas have a drastically lower population than urban areas. And since a good portion of poor whites are concentrated in the Appalachian mountains, I'll discuss there. First off, the Appalachian has very secluded areas that may use vigilantes than an actual police force."
So your explanation that poor yites are less violent than poor Bs is, its less population dense? this would imply that the masses living in close proximity is the problem, but if thats the case, why arent W's the primary crime drivers in cities? wouldnt there still be a large protion of Ws in cities?
"Secondly, the drug usage there is insane as well as suicide rates. It is one of the most miserable places to live in on par with urban areas. Money always flows out and never in.
Let us take one typical example - McDowell County, West Virginia:
"McDowell County is in the 3rd percentile for safety, meaning 97% of counties are safer and 3% of counties are more dangerous.----Your chance of being a victim of crime in McDowell County may be as high as 1 in 9 in the southwest neighborhoods, or as low as 1 in 21 in the northeast part of the county."
Population density plays a major role in crime as well. Poor blacks tend to live in very urbanized areas and poor whites tend to live in rural areas. When you have more people, you have more crime. That's how it is regardless of the country or state.
Interesting. sounds pretty terrible. im so glad that there is this one example you have. but i dont think it makes up for the statistical average of everything else. Apparently the B population is 10%..... i wonder what percentage of crime they make up?
"But the main reason is because of drugs mixed with poverty. Drugs can cause poverty."
It doesnt explain everything
"We see this with the opioid crisis that affected the white community. Now you see them falling into homelessness and incarceration. Those inner cities that you always hear about are major hubs for drug trafficking."
So the opioid crisis in the non urban centers is die to the urban centers drug trade? im lost here
"There is a long history of illegal drugs and the government dating back to the 70s and 80s during the "war on drugs". The government literally admitted to targeting black communities and political enemies."
the government does alot of things against its citizens. Not gonna hear any disagreement from me
"The height of the "war on drugs" is also why you see crime rise so sharply in the 70s and 80s, but since then, the national crime rate has been falling ever since."
I guess drugs are why grape and assault happen all the time? I mean if you want to think about drugs causing people to commit robberies, wouldn't the drugs be the problem and not the enforcement of drug laws? also, dont @ me with complaints about drug laws. Drugs should be legal , unless in the case of selling to minors.
"And lastly, fatherlessness does not help. Around 60 percent of men in prison grew up without fathers. A good percent of black children don't have fathers and that is one of the reasons why so many black men in those cities are involved in gangs. Without a father figure to guide you and teach you how to be a man, the gang becomes your father."
Gonna have to agree with you here. Not gonna see me disagreeing with a father in the lives of individuals greatly increases their ability to function ins lawful society.
"Lastly, if this was about race, then African immigrants wouldn't excel in America or have higher education achievements than native born Americans (including white Americans). Instead, they would fall to crime like you'd think."
Does the concept of averages not exist to you? or is a bell curve too complex? Dont forget the lowering of standards, and affirmative action that exist..
"also, nice to see you use slang from a community you despise so much🙂"
Uhhhh what slang are you reffering to?
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@sk8899
"Those Pionneers were Immigrants in US where Natives already existed & had their own Civilizations"
Having a few dozen tribes of people who continually attacked, warred, pil laged and destroyed,. is not a civilization. equating the two is massive levels of dishonestly
"Who is an American as per your Understanding??"
Those of European descent who have had family roots for significant generations...
"European Settlers were the reason Native American population died due to Diseases & was Massacred."
Welcome to every single nation on the planet, welcome to what the natives did to other natives. welcome to the natural ways of nature. but go ahead and whyite man bad all over it so whyte people should feel bad about building a nation
"US as a Nation needs to exist in terms of Ideas rather than Racial-theories."
Yeah, the idea is that when you build something for your children and neighbors, its not meant for the entire world. It would become unsustainable and fall apart, and cease to be americia as we know it and it will just devolve into any other third world banana republic
US has an ageing population with a Median age of 38-years so it has only 2-options:-
(1) Skill-based Immigration
Or
(2) Loose its edge to China & eventually get overrun by illegal Migrants from Mexico
Well you propose a no win situation by ignoring the reasons we got there. We dont need " skill based immigrants" draining the intelligence and work ethic of other countries further keeping them behind the rest of the world, we dont need them comin gin here and competing for the low number of high paying US jobs that should go to other US residents so they can go and have families instead of wage slaving alone to a global machine their entire lives. Pretending that the US government and the global cabal didnt do over the last 40 years, promote china to the status it is in, by pushing manufacturing out of the country, then you are willfully ignorant to the actual problems. Governments and the global élite treating people like indiscriminately replaceable cogs in a machine, or numbers on a spread sheet... which is disgusting, and a recipe for disaster no matter who does it. If we stop manufacturing everything in china, and stop letting millions of people into the country, we would be much more competitive. but the globalists dont want competition, they want servitude to the global order.
.
As far as the "Twat" is considered its a clear indication of your frustration to not to accept the Reality.
Its frustration of YOU being ignorant to reality, and telling me im wrong
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@sk8899
"If we go by your definition of Who is an American then What about the (AA) community that has heavily contributed towards USA's development & Security for Decades to almost a Century"
uhh, a tiny fraction of the country is (AA) no one wanted them here when they were brought here (except the top1%) from sl avery, and (I Q) dictates that there is a negative return on investment for more of them in the nation...
"F oreign Skilled Labour force contributes immensely towards USA's development so shouldn't they get the right to Live & Stay in USA??"
No, fore ign labor builds wealth for themselves, their home country they send money to, and g lobal m ultinationals. this doesnt help the average American.
"Every other Nation isn't involved in Great Power Games like US & C hina"
Wrong, its a different scale depending on the nation, but pretending they dont all play global power games is foolish.
"US needs Skill-based Immigration to insure its Su periority in Science & Technology in 21st century."
absolute bul lshite, just because you say so doesnt make it true. we dont need an endless supply if forei gners. we dont need infinite growth, and we can compete with ch ina if we stop our governments from doing what china wants.. but nooo you wanna just keep pumping more im migrants in because numbers and cogs are replaceable as any other... its kinda disturbing how you are so adamant about the globalist agenda that you think its a good idea
"It seems that that you are both frustrated & Ignorant of your own Nation's reality & its position in Global politics."
It appears YOU are ignorant to reality of global politics. but keep pretending that your ideas are going to help the nation when it becomes a vassal state to global entities filled with Hodge podge of everyone from all over the world, so we all become identical drones to the global machine...
good work
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@sk8899
"Your comment clearly indicates that you have some real Racial discrimatory tendencies"
So pointing out reality is discriminitory? well ok i guess nature is racist
but it won't change the reality of US that had an African American President & now has an African-Indian Vice President.
LOL both of them were puppets who were selected and it had nothing to do with merit but go ahead and champion them.
Smaler Nations are involved in Global politics but that doesn't means that they are in involved in Great Power Games of global dominance.
So because a pawn is not a bishop it isnt all in the same game? get real... the samller nations just play along with the larger ones in the same game.
How will US defeat China without a Skilled Labour force??
Bu stop doing things china wants, like cripple our own energy production, cripple our own manufacturing, cripple our own industry and then import it from china. that would be a good start...
US has an ageing population with a Median age of 38-years.
Stop regurgitating someone else's talking points like it matters... it doesnt.
Technology is going to decide who is going to win the next Global race for Domination.
Not really, its going to be the corrupt global élite who decide who " wins" are you not paying attention?
US Govt takes actions for the benefit of US citizens not for any other Nation.
the last 100 years of US policy tells me this is a lie. you sound like a paid propaganda shill...
Skilled Labour force working & spending money in US even for their basic needs creates Employment for many.
and it takes away jobs from natives, takes away limited housing from natives, it drives up prices of everything, and then they go and send billions of dollars outside of the country. stop denying documented reality
And as these Skilled Immigration become US Citizens their Saving & Other Investments become more & more US oriented.
No, they become (whatever hyphenated American group) Americans enclaves and promote their own group. Any look at teh US tech industry will tell you that... Its like you cant see whats happening around you. almost like you are someone paid to have these opinions online.
US allowed the Europeans to avoid the Tensions & Division in Europe to come together & build a better future for themselves in US.
Yes, because the US is a European country, built by and for European Americans. It wasnt built to house the whole globe
The same philosophy US needs at present to attract the best possible Talent from around the world to boost its Tech-Industry to generate Wealth & create Employment.
no, your terrible ELS english and repeated talking points are at the point where i genuinely doubt you have these opinions
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Arthur O Sulzberger Jr. – Chairman & Publisher
Arthur O Sulzberger Jr. is Chairman and Publisher of the New York Times. Arthur O Sulzberger Jr. is ✡. According to JPost, a ✡ news publication, the Sulzbergers are a ✡ family
Michael Golden – Vice Chairman
Michael Golden is Vice Chairman of the New York Times. Michael Golden is ✡. Michael Golden is the father of Hays Golden , who is also on the New York Times’ board of directors , and the son of Ruth Sulzberger Holmberg, who is the sister of Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, who was ✡.
Arthur Greg Sulzberger – Deputy Publisher
Arthur Greg Sulzberger is Deputy Publisher of the New York Times. Arthur Greg Sulzberger is Jewish. Arthur Gregg is the son of Arthur O Sulzberger Jr , whose father, Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, was the New York Times publisher before him. [16]. According to JPost, a ✡ news publication, the Sulzbergers are a ✡ family
Mark Thompson – President & CEO
Mark Thompson is the President and CEO of the New York Times. Mark Thompson’s wife is ✡. The Independent has confirmed that his Thompson’s wife, Jane Blumberg, is ✡. The ✡ Voice of NY has likewise confirmed
Joseph Kahn – Managing Editor
Joseph Kahn is the Managing Editor of the New York Times. Joseph Kahn is ✡. Joseph Kahn is the son of Leo Kahn, a co-founder of Staples Inc. who was ✡, according to the ✡Telegraphic Agency.
Meredith Kopit Levin - Executive Vice President, Chief Operating Officer
Meredith Kopit Levin is Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of the New York Times. Meredith Kopit Levin is ✡ . Meredith’s husband, Jason Levin , has stated, "I am ✡ . I had my bar mitzvah in Israel.”
James Bennet – Lead Editor, Editorial Page
James Bennet is the Lead Editor for the Editorial Page of the New York Times. James Bennet is ✡. Rocky Mountain News has confirmed that James Bennet is the brother of politician Michael Bennet who is also ✡.. James and Michael are the sons of Susanne Klejman Wed to D. J. Bennet Jr. The publication US News has likewise confirmed that James’ and Michaels’ mother was Polish-✡ .. Several publications have likewise confirmed that Michael Bennet is ✡, including ✡Virtual Library the ✡publication JWeekly, and the Israeli-based newspaper Times of Israel.
David Perpich – President & General Manager, The Wirecutter
David Perpich is President and General Manager of the New York Times’ The Wirecutter. David Perpich is . Perpich was married in a ✡wedding ceremony performed by Rabbi Harvey J. Winokur. Perpich is the newphew of current New York Times publisher, Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.
Rebecca Blumenstein – Deputy Managing Editor
Rebecca Blumenstein is Deputy Managing Editor of the New York Times. Rebecca Blumenstein is ✡. Joanna Barsh and Johanna Lavoie write in their book, “Centered Leadership”, that Rebeccae Blumenstein’s family moved to Essexville, Michigan, where Rebacca as the “only ✡ kid in her fourth grade.”. Rebecca and her husband Paul’s life stories have been featured in The ✡Chronicle..
Paul Walborsky – Senior Vice President, NYT Global
Paul Walborsky is Senior Vice President, NYT Global. Paul Walborsky is ✡. Walborsky was married to Liann Schottenstein in a Jewish wedding performed by Rabbi Aaron M. Petuchowski.. Paul and Liann have donated to the Addison-Penzak JCC of Silicon Valley, a ✡or organization.. Paul and Liann are also donors to JValley (The ✡Federation of Silicon Valley).
Nick Rockwell - Executive Vice President & Chief Technology Officer
Nick Rockwell is an Executive Vice President and the Chief Technology Officer for the New York Times.. It is unclear whether or not Nick is ✡. However, nick’s sister Alexandra is married to David Kissinger, who is ✡
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SECTION 2: NYT Bureau Chiefs
Elisabeth Bumiller – Washington D.C. Bureau Chief
Elisabeth Bumiller is the Washington D.C. Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Elisabeth Bumiller is ✡. Bumiller was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony performed by Rabbi Harold White..
Adam Nagourney – Los Angeles Bureau Chief
Adam Nagourney is the Los Angeles Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Adam Nagourney is ✡ . Adam is the son of Herert Nagourney and brother of Eric Nagourney who was married in a ✡ wedding ceremony Rabbi Burt Aaron Siegel at Adam Nagourney’s house.. Adam Nagourney is also listed as a ✡ American journalist on Wikipedia. .
Steven Erlanger – London Bureau Chief
Steven Erlanger is the London Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Steven Erlanger is ✡ . Erlanger, the New York Times’ former Jerusalem bureau chief.. According to JPost, a ✡ newspaper, the last several Jerusalem Bureau Chiefs, including Steven Erlander, are ✡ ..
Alissa Rubin – Paris Bureau Chief
Alissa Rubin is the Paris Bureau Chief for the New York Times. Alissa Rubin is ✡. Among other things, the funeral for Robert Castor, father of Enid Rubin and grandfather of Alissa Rubin, was held at Frank E. Campbell, which the Times of Israel states is a ✡funeral home..
Jason Horowitz – Rome Bureau Chief
Jason Horowitz is the NYT’s Rome Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Jason Horowitz is ✡. Horowitz has written about his Passover celebrations in Italy and has described himself as “an Ashenazi New Yorker.”
Alison Smale – Berlin Bureau Chief
Alison Smale is the Berlin Bureau Chief for the New York Times. Alison Smale is ✡. Smale is married to Russian pianist-composer Sergei Dreznin , who is ✡ according to NPR. .
Rick Lyman - Central and Eastern European Bureau Chief
Rick Lyman is Central and Eastern European Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Rick Lyman is ✡. Lyman and his wife have daughters including Katie Lyman a member of different improv groups on Facebook , was also in the all-✡ play Jewvangelist
Damien Cave – Australia Bureau Chief.
Damien Cave is the Australia Bureau Chief for the New York Times.. Damien Cave is Jewish. Cave has written about his Jewish upbringing and has referred to his “Mom’s ✡ relatives.”.
Jeffrey Gettleman – South Asia Bureau Chief
Jeffrey Gettleman is the South Asia Bureau Chief for the New York Times. Jeffrey Gettleman is ✡. Gettleman is the son of Judge Robert W. William, United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois.. Judge Gettleman is ✡ and served as an attorney for the ✡ United Fund before being appointed to his judgeship in 1994.. Jeffrey Gettleman’s sister, Lynn Chehab, has also spoken on the radio program hosted by Shalom Klein [95], founder of Founder of ✡ B2B Networking and ✡ Business News.
SECTION 3: NYT Chief Correspondents
Mark Leibovich – Chief National Correspondent
Mark Leibovich is the Chief National Correspondent for the New York Times.. Mark Leibovich is ✡. The Forward, a ✡ publication, has confirmed that Leibovich is ✡, stating that Leibovich tries to channel his “✡ outside status” and that Leibovich “is the son of a ✡ immigrant from Argentina.” [98].
Shane Goldmacher – Chief Political Correspondent
Shane Goldmacher is the Chief Political Correspondent for the New York Times. Shane Goldmacher is ✡ . Shane’s Grandparents are Ruth and Jerry Goldmacher.
Peter Baker – Chief White House Correspondent
Peter Baker is the Chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times.. Peter Baker’s wife is ✡. Baker is married to Susan Glasser who the Daily Caller has reported is ✡..
Cheryl Stolberg – Chief Domestic Affairs
Cheryl Stolberg is the Chief Domestic Affairs Correspondent for the New York Times.. Cheryl Stolberg is ✡ . Stolberg has confirmed that she is ✡ in articles written for the New York Times, which have included her discussing “being ✡ ” and having “a ✡ background.”
Michael Gordon – Chief Military Correspondent
Michael Gordon is the Chief Military Correspondent for the New York Times.. Michael Gordon is ✡. Michael Gordon is the son of former news executive Matthew Gordon and Antonia Gordon. . Michael Gordon’s grandmother (Matthew Gordon’s mother), Ida Gordo, was buried at Beth David Cemetery which is a ✡ cemetery.
Andrew Ross Sorkin – Chief M&A Correspondent
Andrew Ross Sorkin is the Chief M&A Correspondent for the New York Times. . Andrew Ross is ✡. Sorkin appeared on United ✡ Appeal (UJA)-Federation of New York’s 2013 list of 40 under 40 top “movers and shakers” in the ✡ community.. With regard to his ✡, Sorkin stated as follows: “I am [✡]! A Christmas loving ✡! We did Chanukah last night and we will again tonight and the night after….”.
Liz Alderman – Chief European Business Correspondent
Liz Alderman is the Chief European Business Correspondent for the New York Times. Liz Alderman is ✡ . The ✡ publication JWeekly has confirmed that Alderman is ✡.
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Roger Cohen – Op-Ed Columnist
Roger Cohen is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times. Roger Cohen is ✡ . Cohen has written about growing up ✡ and having a “proud ✡ identity.”
David Brooks – Op-Ed Columnist
David Brooks is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times. David Brooks is Jewish. Brooks has written that “As an American Jew, I was taught to go all gooey-eyed at the thought of Israel...."
Thomas Friedman – Op-Ed Columnist
Thomas Friedman is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times, and he writes about foreign affairs, globalization and technology. Thomas Friedman is ✡. Friedman has stated in his writings that he is ✡.. Friedman also “attended Hebrew school five days a week until his Bar Mitzvah.”. Friedman “became enamored with Israel after a visit there” in December 1968, and he spent all three of his high school summers living on Kibbutz HaHotrim, near Haifa..
Frank Rich – Op-ed Columnist
Frank Rich is an Op-ed Columnist for the New York Times.. Frank Rich is ✡. Rich has for the ✡ Washington, stating that his father’s family was “German-✡immigrants” and his mother’s family was “Russian-✡ immigrants.”
Andrew Rosenthal – Op-Ed Columnist
Andrew Rosenthal is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times. Andrew Rosenthal is Jewish. Andrew is the son of ✡ author A.M. Rosenthal, whose funeral was held at Central Synagogue.. Author Harrison Salisbury has further confirmed that Rosenthal is ✡.
Paul Krugman – Op-Ed Columnist
Paul Krugman is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times.. Paul Krugman is ✡ . Krugman has been listed among the "prominent American ✡ economists" in the Encyclopedia of American ✡ History..
Peter Beinart – Op-Ed Columnist
Peter Beinart is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times.. Peter Beinart is ✡. Beinart’s parents were ✡ immigrants from South Africa, according to the ✡ publication Tablet Mag, and Beinart has written about how he remembers “walking back with [his] grandmother one night from synagogue.
Herbert Buchsbaum – Senior Editor
Herbert Buchsbaum is a Senior Editor for the New York Times.. Herbert Buchsbaum is ✡. The obituary for Herbert’s father, Aaron Buchsbaum, requested that donations in Aaron’s name be made to the ✡ Educational Alliance or the Agudath Achim Synagogue, and Aaron was buried in Bonaventure Cemetery which is a ✡ cemetery.
Richard Bernstein – Book Critic
Richard Bernstein is a Book Critic for the New York Times. Richard Bernstein is ✡ . The New York Times has confirmed that Bernstein is ✡..
Eric Asimov – Wine & Food Critic
Eric Asimov is the New York Times’ Wine and Food Critic. Eric Asimov is ✡. Eric Asimov is the nephew of author Isaac Asimov, who along with Eric’s father Stanley Asimov, grew up in an Orthodox ✡ family and a father that was an “Orthodox ✡.”
Jacob Bernstein – Features Writer
Jacob Bernstein is a Features Writer for the New York Times.. Jacob Bernstein is ✡. The Jewish ✡ has confirmed that Bernstein is ✡ and stated that he “attended a ✡ school” when growing up..
Elizabeth Rubin – Contributing Writer
Elizabeth Rubin is a Contributing Writer for the New York Times. Elizabeth Rubin. Elizabeth is the sister of James Rubin, who is ✡ according to TV Newsroom [ and Yahoo Voices. ].
NeJames Bennet is the Lead Editor for the Editorial Page of the New York Times. James Bennet is ✡. Rocky Mountain News has confirmed that James Bennet is the brother of politician Michael Bennet who is also ✡. James and Michael are the sons of Susanne Klejman Wed to D. J. Bennet Jr. The publication US News has likewise confirmed that James’ and Michaels’ mother was Polish-✡. Several publications have likewise confirmed that Michael Bennet is ✡, including ✡ Virtual Library the ✡ publication JWeekly and the Israeli-based newspaper Times of Israel.
.
Maggie Haberman is a White House Correspondent for the New York Times. Maggie Haberman is ✡. The Forward, a ✡ publication, has confirmed that Haberman is ✡ .
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" she is a lunatic"
full stop, a gross mis-characterization of this poor woman...
" How unhinged do you have to be to whip out your gun over something like this"
How unhinged do you have to be to scream, berate, harass, call racist, threaten to " beat they w hite asses" and block a moving vehicle?
"My guess she is worried about getting her ass kicked."
Hence the self defense with a firearm... yet you seem to disagree?
"You should not be allowed to pull your gun on anybody that pisses you off"
What about people who scream at you, berate you, harass you, call you racist, threaten to beat you, and block you from de escalating the situation and leaving? how about then? when they fear for themselves and their family? seems like clear cut self defense no?
"How miserable do you have to be to pull a gun out on somebody because they made you angry? "
Pretty sure it was the constant threats of getting your a ss beaten for no apparent reason.....
"This woman must have little to no control over the events in her own life. I am sure that they will get off because she is w hite."
Ahh so thats all this is, you just hate w hite people...
or this was some exquisite tasting bait
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uh oh, only 2% of the population, but
As well as making up 30% of the richest 100 and (at least) 139 of the Forbes 400, ✡ Americans contributed 17.7% of the US GDP as of 2005
The ✡ people may account for less than 0.2% of the world's population, but among the 1,426 billionaires around the globe, 165 or 11.6% of them are ✡ , and their joint wealth has reached the incredible amount of $812 billion, according to Forbes Israel. Out of the 50 richest people in the world, about a quarter or 25% are ✡ , and of the top 10 richest ✡ in the world, eight are from the U.S., while two are from Russia.
BIG THINK
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@OrdoMallius " What nation can truly claim biological similarity?"
Almost every single nation ever to exist
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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@Aneko_Tomo "collective conscious is the set of shared beliefs, ideas, and moral attitudes which operate as a unifying force within society"
"nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a rce of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; bred, stck, kind, spcis; rce of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups. The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a rce of people, an aggregation of persons of the same ethnc family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised
So literally the framework of how nations work is somehow bad, because you describe it as such... literally the founding core of what actually is a nation is the shared beliefs, ideas, and moral attitudes which operate as a unifying force within society
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@Aneko_Tomo
They are both collectivist so they are inherently more similar than different.
We share 98-99% of our dna with chimpanzees, we are more similar than different
t's not just "an extension", it view all of them as a single, collective unit at the expense of the individual.
A nation isnt a single individual... I think you must be confused somewhere if this is how you navigate this topic...
You say this while you yourself along with nearly all nationalists openly advocating for the rights of the mystical collective over the individual.
You dont even know what i advocate for short of what i tell you here, and yet you make wild assumptions while not understanding what nations are. Its like
Simply wanting improvement for yourself and the others around you is something that can exist within individualism as well.
Not if we live in a world with no borders and anyone and everyone can move to my nation... Then we are just racing to the bottom
Also... the fact that you just claimed that individualism is the same as "seeing individuals as interchangeable" when those two things couldn't be more antithetical, just shows you're now just using Orwellian Newspeak.
How is it antithetical? If all are individuals, then an individual is similar to another individual. What difference does it make from individuals from different cultures and genetic makeup?
You literally showed the definition that just proves my point
I did no such thing. I showed you that your "collective consciousness " and the very concept of a nation share the same base description. SO either collectivism isnt bad, because nations are collectives, or you disagree with the very concept of nations at its core. Which is it?
Why u say it bad bro?" It literally describes it all as a single unit.
No, it doesnt... Did you even read it?
This is literally showing a collective entity rather than a group of individuals first.
No, it doesnt...
Meanwhile in Individualism, you can still share common beliefs and practices, you just view the people as individuals with their own innate rights first
In what way does promoting groups invalidate individuals? The only one doing this is you. You are ignoring definitions and asserting your own..
Are you Pro or Anti "Nation"?
That is really the crux of this argument here
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@Robby_C I understand the effort. I do, but all you have shown me is you actively avoid the very topics i brought up while telling me you dont. Im not leading with " BrOwN PeOpLe Ar R TaRdEd" im merely pointing out that avoiding the topics isnt going to bring any discourse on them to address them. it just keeps getting ignored and pushed off because its an uncomfortable topic. You cant get better if you only deal with the symptoms.
"But what ever bro. Your just too based for me to handle. So edgy and educated... Jesus... I’m talking about political strategy and your bitching cuz you don’t understand why people find if unpalatable to lead a conversation racial IQ disparities"
You are optics kucking. you avoid the uncomfortable questions because its a safer choice. And your visceral disgust with it is sort of proving my point. Im not running out of the gate screeching it like some kind of spaz, im just repeating over and over, if you dont talk about it, you cant do anything about it. and you just keep circling back to ' you cant lead with it"
"you are trying to get people who have only taken about 5mg of redpill to rail a 100mg line of. "
Buddy those types of people have never had any redpill anything, and have had softball sized bluepill suppositories shoved up their ass for decades...
"You can’t take people who are at stage one or two and bulldoze them with some stage twelve shit. that is all I’m saying. That doesn’t mean the conversation can’t be had, it just means you need to get to that conversation without also trying to be edgy and cool."
Right, but lets say the whole scenario is rebuilding a home, and the topics i am talking about make up the tearing down the old house, tearing up the and foundation, and laying a new foundation to lay the groundwork. You on the other hand just want to remodel to make it nice and easy for the" buyer" youll fix up most of the things like the utilities, hole in a wall, and the windows, but the foundation is rotten, and the frame is junk, and the house will not stand up very long
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@Robby_C
"we don't need a new foundation though. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with how the house is build, the issue is that the current occupants spend all their time throwing bricks through the windows and calling it remodeling."
Well thats if you ignore the cracks in the foundation. Such as the level of corruption in the highest levels of education, government, industry, and finance. Such as the idea that " we are all equal" ( my 'edgy"points). And a sickening level of self hatred for a vast majority of Americans.
Theres some serious problems, the idiots throwing bricks are just puppets of the people trying to destroy the house so they can sell it off after buying it cheap.
"You seem to think using tact in dialogue is some sort of deflection move, when in reality it is an attempt to inform people of the important information without smashing them over the head with rhetoric that comes off as racist in their blue-pilled minds."
Well my point was, treating the conversation like you have to walk on eggshells trying to approach it is exactly what i mean by you cant talk about it. If you have to dress it up this much its not really dealing with it. which was what im getting at.
"I was referring to people who are on the currently waking up to the fact that the government and media are full of shit., and youre right, they have had blue pills shoved up their ass for decades, thats my entire point. they have just started dipping their toe in the water, and the race realism conversation is like shoving them into the pool with weights on.
"
I think a pool analogy is actually pretty useful here. Sure, its better to ease people into the water having never learned to swim, but im of the sink or swim camp. Chuck you in, and you'll figure it out, because you have to figure it out. Its not exactly like we have tons of time, this is an old, old set of plans that these governments have been running on, and were fast approaching a point of no return.
I guess i dont know what you mean by "cant have the conversation" then... do you mean on YouTube or on TV?
Well considering how censored everything is on the internet, and people shouting " sources" while tech giants actively remove such things, sort of gives me the vibe of " time is not on your side here"
because I am talking about one on one interactions
This is the problem, much of this is now done online, and is looking like to be an increasing amount of public discourse, personal, and groups, will all be online.
There are those that can see
There are those who can be taught to see
There are those who will never see
Theres no point trying to convince the third group, they are lost.
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@eggynack "Immigrant workers increased US GDP by about 1.7 trillion, or 10.7% in 2013. The vast bulk of this gain went to the immigrants themselves. Only 2% went to natives.
For native-born Americans, immigration s major impact is distributional: It lowers the wages of native born workers and raises the income of their employers and other upper income natives who derive disproportionate share of their income from capital gains, stock options and other non-wage income. By increasing the number of workers in the economy, immigration lowers the wages of native born workers. At the same time however native born employers gain from immigration because they can now hire workers at lower wages. Native born consumers also gain , especially the wealthy. Similarly natives who derive most of their income from dividends, capital gains, and other non wage income gain as immigration drives up corporates profits. Immigrations biggest winners then, at least among us natives, are the wealthy, while its biggest losers are disproportionally found among the nations poor and middle class. Clearly immigration exacerbates the economic divide of the have and the have nots. Current levels of over one million legal admissions per year, and defacto amnesty and non enforcement policies that serve to protect those aliens who are here unlawfully are only placing greater economic strain on those citizens who can afford it least. "
it LITERALLY makes it worse for natives....
im sorry you have lost the argument and have resorted to name calling, but that doesn't work here
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@eggynack ahh yes Ed Rubenstein, president of ESR Research, is an experienced business researcher, financial analyst, and economics journalist. He has written extensively on federal tax policy, government waste, the Reagan legacy, and – most recently – on immigration. He is the author of two books: The Right Data (1994) and From the Empire State to the Vampire State: New York in a Downward Transition (with Herbert London). His essays on public policy have appeared in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Harvard Business Review, Investor’s Business Daily, Newsday, and National Review. His TV appearances include Firing Line, Bill Moyers, McNeil-Lehr, CNBC, and Debates-Debates. Mr. Rubenstein has a B.A. from Johns Hopkins and a graduate degree in economics from Columbia University.
is a bizarre screed from an anti immigrant group
i feel truly puzzled that when confronted with factual data on the negative effects of a policy you promote, its always dismissed.....
how predictable
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@Arizto7828
yeah bc Trump during his guidelines stated that it was optional to follow the recomendations which no they didnt follow, , people wouldnt need the lockdowns if people actually take care of themselves, but that's a big no bc of using a mask is just too much to ask, i guess people are just weaker, the last century oppresion was being in a ghetto now opression is asking people to use a mask to stop the spread of a virus, btw check the number of cases in america compored to the ones in south korea which they didnt bitch as much about "freedom" their cases were far less with cities with much larger population than the one on US and didnt have to do an extensive lock down and they are a very capitalist country so yeah yeah you are an ass for actually conteadicting the people who know most of viruses for example the doctors in your country
Ya know, i tried to find a stopping point to respond to things you said, but its one long run on sentence with very little punctuation, and rambling train of thought.....
btw if you dont wash your hands properly the virus is still on your hands and you can get infected by just eating with your hands in that state thats why physicians recommend atleast 30 seconds of washing hands with soap, you can see that with thunder where he rub his finger during 6 seconds and still have traces of ink which are 10 times larger than the virus, in fact the virus of common spread more through hands than cough
Yeah amazing, its almost like the mask is faux security and does fuckall to stop a virus thats most often transmission is through the nose and eyes...
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@roberthuman8091
"choosing people of one skin color over another”
"Yeah I guess there aren’t any white people in universities anymore."
Oh look another strawman to detract from my point of racist discrimination against whites.
"To your second point, a minority born in the US is an American. As in, they are a United States citizen. As in, this is their country TOO."
Most of the time no, birthright citizenship is a bastardization of citizenship when illegals pop out a kid, that kids " lega;" and that family forever now gets to stay
"You can only tell someone to go back to their own country if you assume they weren’t born here, unless you have some kind of prior, circumstantial knowledge about that specific individual. But even in that case, you’re still being a bigot. Telling immigrants to leave is literally bigoted."
They have homelands to return to. where to white people return to? everywhere they come from is turning " diverse", but you dont hear about wanting white diversity in africa, or whites in korea....
"The United States was formed to literally stick it to the crown. Do you know anything about history at all?"
it was formed by europeans for europeans. Pretending otherwise is historical fallacy
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@jort93z
"So how do you want to control a gps?"
the same way i did before massive infotainment screens, a dedicated GPS unit...
"Controlling a gps without a touchscreen is a pain in the ass, ever used a gps without a touchscreen?"
Ever think of the concept of not having everything in the car tied to your GPS screen as a solution ?
"I have changed many batteries, not an ipod one, but batteries from sony, samsung and huawai. You can still change them with some afford sure."
some afford? ELS much?
"They are not considered user replaceable because they are easily damaged"
So what? they could MAKE it user serviceable, but they they would lose out on repeat trips to the service department and new phone sales...
"Even a poke with a screwdriver can destroy them. batteries from an old nokia or whatever, you can throw against a wall because of the hard case."
AGain, you have no idea what you are talking about. have you never seen hard shell batteries explode before? you realize its the exact same thing with a teeny tiny layer of plastic on it right?
"IPods DO NOT have user replaceable batteries."
And why not? oh thats right, because planned obsolescence is a thing...
"User replaceable means an end user can buy a battery and replace the old one without any special tools. That is not the case for 99% of current smartphones"
And there is really no reason for this...
like which?
I know what I am talking about.
You dont, you could easily make iphones have user serviceable batteries.
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@jort93z
"the same way i did before massive infotainment screens, a dedicated GPS unit" With a touchscreen?...
They just want to integrate the gps in the Car, makes sense don't you think?
You do realize we have done this before and DIDNT replace everything with a giant touch screen right? like you are aware that vehicles with integrated GPS systems also had completely independent tactile buttons for every other function of the vehicle rights
" yup, shitty solution though."
wow
"So what? they could MAKE it user serviceable, but they they would lose out on repeat trips to the service department and new phone sales... "
"No they could not, that would make them considerably thicker, as stated. If you want them to be user replaceable, you need to choose other batteries."
Wtf are you talking about dude? they dont NEED to make the batteries non user serviceable to keep the same thickness... thats nonsense...
"No, because they were some the thinnest touchscreen devices on the market at the time"
What is the point of a fancy wonderful piece of technology, if you cant fix parts if it breaks? just so you can throw it out and get a new one? why?
"you could easily make iphones have user serviceable batteries." Yes, but they would be either thicker, or have a smaller capacity."
absolutely wrong and based on absolutely nothing
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@jort93z
What mocking quote thing?
"Hi i cant imagine or conceptualize a battery that is thin, doesnt have a large hard plastic backing, and can be user replaceable, and want to embrace throwaway devices"
"nope. it is a trade off. if you make parts replacable, the phone gets thicker"
Ok, phones stay a few MM thicker, but can be maintained for much longer. thanks for illustrating my exact point... Why would we need fragile tech devices as thin as poptarts if they break easily and cant be replaced? what is the point?
.
"most people don't think so"
Most people are dumb, and have terrible taste, lets not pretend the vast masses are in any way measures of good design
"Lets take lenovo for example. Thinkpads have had replacable GPU's, cpus, harddrives, batteries... for years, yet most people but their ideapads, which are thinner and in general more compact but have barely any replacable parts."
And lenovo laptops are some of the worst ive used in recent years purely because how thin and cheaply made they are. but " people buy it so its better"
"If people rather buy products without replaceable parts, guess what they'll produce"
Ahh yes, so we should just keep up disposable appliances, and scale them to vehicles, because " thats what people want"
"current thinkpads have less replaceable parts as well. Not because that gets them more money, but literally because they sell better that way."
what? its cheaper to make, therefore cheaper to sell....
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@SergeiVorobei "how do you know it doesn't work in practice?"
well, you cant legislate the poor out of poverty, most forms of taxation are theft, and wealth distribution will subsidize poor behavior. ( IE taking from the haves and giving to the have nots will only create more have nots)
"Speaking of centralised control over a nation for elite, this is how all governments work."
No it doesn't, government is supposed to be decentralized, hence states have the ability to be separate from other states, and cities and towns do the same. This was to keep power lower in the chain, and closer to the voting citizen... The more federal programs and oversight, the farther out of control they become from the voting citizen
"Centralised control is essential for all sorts of operations under one government."
I dont need the federal government dictating what my state is forced to do.
I dont need my state government dictating what my local town is forced to do
"If you mean obstruction of freedom through centralised government control, then you should be more specific as to extent of freedom and respective degree of violence."
If i dont pay the state their cut of my home value ( taxes) they either take me to jail ( under threat of armed resistance) or seize my home ( IE violently forced to vacate my property)
Where else would you like me to go?
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@DeusExAngelo "Look at who I was replying to and the context I was using the term ethnonationlist. Regarding the sentiment that Vivek is somehow not an American, because he's not white. Does that not strike you as shallow, dimissive, and rather dehumanizing? And in case you ask, no it is not acceptable behavior if someone happens to be white."
he is not American,. he is indian... pretending that " American" is anyone with the right paperwork is dehumanize and in essence an eradication of the concept of the founding of the united states of America to be one of European descent, according to the nationalization act of 1790 ( free whyte men of good character)... Anything contrary to that is a detriment to the existence of the nation as a whole.
"I take it you are someone who labels himself as ethnonationlist. So let me ask you, in your own words, what does "Pro Your People" mean to you?"
Pro european. english, french, german, dutch, and keeping the nation as close to those roots as possible. and that DOESNT mean importing endless waves of foreigners and giving them the right to vote and change my homeland. This is the same issue being faced all across the european world... and no one seems to be batting in defense of europeans.... Its always Europeans defending their right to exist at all
"And what do you think individuals who do not belong to "Your People" be looked at and treated? Do you think you can co-exist with them? I'm genuinely curious."
They have their own homelands they belong to. India keeps being indian, china keeps being chinese, etc etc... whyte European countries keep being ""diverse"" and cease to be whyte European
"So my comments are shadowbanned? Odd. Though not entirely surprising, I suppose. I remember seeing a number of your replies in this comment chain and others prior."
Generally it depends on words you use. I figure its a combination of what words you use, and how often you are censured
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@DeusExAngelo
"So because he is not white, despite being born here, speaking perfect American English, and valuing the Constitution he is not American? That's not just a "the right paperwork', and how is it dehumanizing?"
Because he is a foreigner. he isnt " American" in the same way an africian born in japan isnt japanese....
"So you're using the 1790 Naturalization Act instead of the 1787 Constitution or the original founding document that made no mention of this? What use that Act in particular?"
Because it was literally the first immigration and nationality related act made by said nation... and it explicitly points out what the nation was and what its intentions were.
"what about the anti-immigrant sentiment of 1795 that put further restrictions on the "free white men of good character."
Wow so they were even stricter with immigration? wow. what a far cry from letting anyone and everyone inside and giving them citizenship. Was this supposed to counter my point or something?
"So why did this tension exist between people you deem as wanting to keep as "close to these roots" as possible. When the Western European groups you mentioned have as many cultural differences as similarities. This isn't even mentioning the other stipulations from the 1790 Naturalization Act. Nor is bringing in the issue of slavery."
So because european groups sometimes clash when meshed together means we should have un ending influx of foreign culture and ethnic classes? What does slavery have to do with anything? whytes were slaves more than nonwhytes
"Also notice you didn't mention the Spanish, Italians, Irish, Scottish, Poles, Swedes, and all other Europeans groups."
So because i mention some i need to mention all?
"Let alone Eastern Europeans. Some of which (especially the Scotts, Italians, and Irish) were discriminated against heavily in US history. Some not even considered "white" until more recently to my understanding."
Yeah its crazy, your argument that sometimes whites dont mesh well together means we should have un ending non whyte immigration to whyte nations forever to the point where they are no longer whyte is such a stunning argument
"Additionally, you're equating allowing any limited, legal immigration and naturalization from people who's ancestral heritage is not strictly Western European, with being cool with mass, unrestricted, and illegal immigration? That's not what I am saying nor implying. Heck, if you listened to Vivek's stance on immigration you'll know he actually wants to put more restrictions on immigration."
I dont care for the immigrant who would have only been here for the bastardization of my nations immigration law, to be the one to " fix it" he wont fix a thing. he wont fix anything, and will most likely steam line the " legal" process, and allow larger numbers of his type of people in. OR are we gonna pretend the same isnt happening all through europe. Secondly If his plans arent mass deportations and repatriation, and a retroactive claim against the 1965 immigration act i dont care. Its nto going to fix antyhing and the problem of ethnic erasure will continue. In 100 years, india will still be indian for vivek to go hoem to. Europe will be flooded by non europeans and erased... Same with the united states....
"Plus, I'd say it's very hyperbolic to say "it's always Europeans defending their right to exist at all". Like, do you mean throughout human history? Even when for most of human history that Europeans fought one another on the regular? Heck, something seen across all broad ethnic groups in humanity."
AH yes euros fought against other euros, therefore euros fight to defend themselves against innumerable non european hordes is strange
"So do you think we should deport everyone and anyone who doesn't fit your criteria of being strictly Western European?"
A European nation should always remain at least 90+% european.
"How do you plan to do that? By force and coercion?"
Yes
"What about people of mixed heritage? What is to be their fate?"
I mean, other than one of the MANY problems with mixing groups, they can always trevel to the other half of their peoples nations, because im sure they will continue to exist while europe is erased...
"What about people who've always lived in the states and never set foot in their "ancestral homeland"? What about those who love this country and dedicated themselves to it? You don't think that they exist or have an ulterior motive?"
I think they are a far far smaller number than what you think it is... People fleeing bad times in their own homelands would most likely just abandon their new homes when going gets tough... thats sort of the point
"But beyond that, you didn't answer if you think you can co-exist with these individuals at all?You do need to quote other parts of my comment, especially since this discussion is going longer."
what do you mean co exist? each group has their own homes and spaces. why do they all need to come to mine? why do i need to be forced to live inside diversity? why is it im not allowed a homogenous nation to live in? "co exist" with people you never invited to live with you? people who are nothing like you , look nothing like you, and have vastly different customs cultures and mannerisms? why do i have to be forced to coexist with that?
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@DeusExAngelo
-Sorry force of habit, also helps to read the reply when replying to it
-Yes he is. " dynamics" mean nothing. he will always be a foreigner...
- "Honorary japanese" is not "japanese by the way... "happens more often than you think" and how often is the founding stock of a nation reduced to less than 50% in a short time frame, and fit most of the major points of he UN charter on gen cide?
- " the way it was supposed to be setup" AH yes because the same group of people that decided the thing we made should be made for our people and their children didnt intend for the nation to stay for the childrens of their people, but to become a shopping mall for the entire third world populations to pour in? Cmon now...
-"euros sometimes fight themselves, therefore conflict will be equally the same with vastly more different groups of people" isnt the argument you think it is. " should say that for all of europe" yeah, i do say that. i say that alot, because nearly every single European nation on the planet is facing the EXACT same problem of being replaced by foreign populations. Britian, France, germany, Sweden, even ireland is being invaded... you keep acting like this slow motion gen cide isnt the case and are having a philosophical debate on ideas, and im trying to point out the reality of ethnic erasure of entire groups of people. You SERIOUSLY underestimate the culture clash of non euros to euros... even if a frencman and a german are different and have different cultuyres and mannerisms, they are FAR FAR closer to each other than a random indian or a sub-Saharan africian, or an islamic middle easterner... its not even a comparison
-"we are all individuals not groups" pointless platitudes that mean nothing. You can pretend that all peoples are the same on an individual level, or that you cant make group comparisons, but you are wrong and misled.
-"euros fought eachother" see above
- "twisting" Well with the way this conversation is going you arent " for" it but you certainly dont seem to consider that its happening at an ethnically cleansing rate...And yet when it happens, and said immigrants are now in power over the native population, im the bad guy for not wanting this to happen?
"Like this is the way so many leftists argue, and why so many (myself included) see your idealogy as reflections of one another."
LMAO
My argument is you are treating all individuals in these groups as monoliths who all think one way or another. How do know that 100 years from those countries are going to be that way? How exactly? I have no idea what will happen a century from now.
-"how do you know"
Because i can extrapolate simple population numbers? and im not being dishonest about the reality of whats going on?
"I have no idea what will happen a century from now. "
-I know for SURE that if the problems plaguing Europeans countries (including the united states BTW) arent fixed in a generation or two, there wont BE any europeans left...
-"hood culture is akshually from rednecks"
No, not even gonna dignify that.
-Quite frankly i dont care where they end up, they cant stay here, and they cant stay in european countries. they have countries filled with their own people. You act like there arent endless pockets of foreign countries inside the USA, or that massive MASSIVE portions of the immigrant population barely speak english. and they bring their culture and customs and families with them. "native americans" lol they are kind of grandfathered in, and have reservations and have endless gibs.
-"you cant collaborate with other peoples unless you let them into your nation in massive numbers and give them all citizenship" Its like you arent even trying to grasp what im trying to say to you... but thats ok
"I think you severely underestimate how many nonwhite Americans who love the USA."
When i walk into walmart, and im one of the only 3 whyte people in it, and i hear 6 different languages, what the fk is "America" at that point? The good ones are CLEARLY outnumbered by the vast hoards of ungrateful... So many love the USA that they send money back home to the tune of millions and millions of dollars. Its why so many keep their own cultures and traditions, and languages its so amazing being in a foreign country despite living here my whole life... Real Americana is being ethnically and culturally replaced in your own home. You seem to fail to grasp what that means somehow...
-"my personal experience is good therefore your argument bad" Come on man
-"its vile and evil to do the only thing that is going to preserve your people and what they created for you" You had better hope mass deportation's and repatriates happen or your gonna see what happens when all the europeans are gone.... its gonna look like south africian farmers and chicago everywhere.
"Sincerely, do you not have any friends outside your broad ethnic group like at all?"
Yes, but they are so rare and are outliers. You are sitting there sayingi have an (X) friend who likes things i like and thinks like me and are extrapolating that to everyone.
"Have all your experiences with those who happen not be white been that negative"
Most of my interactions with non eurpoeans have been negative.
"Or have ever even met any in real life at all?"
I was regularly assaulted as a kid in school, mostly by B Americans . I learned how much of a leg up non whytes get with scholarships and grants when i was trying to go to college. Worked in tech and grasped how awful working with Indians is, and how terrible the tech industry has gotten
Heck, virtually all comments and replies I've seen of yours are some expressing racial grievance. Outside that, are you okay?
Have you ever looked at interracial crime statistics? like ever?
Im watching a media and government/cooperation/global initiative to erase my people from the globe simultaneously on multiple fronts. and were having discussions about not all non whytes are bad we cant keep european countries european that would be mean. Anyone who says otherwise is a racist bigot whyte supremacist who wants to glass all the non whytes from the world, when in reality all i want is my people to continue to exist in the lands they cultivated. No one in their right mind would go to japan or taiwan and tell them they should let themselves be outnumbered by foreign peoples and cease to run their own nations, and through the inevitability of what happens at that point, they will cease to exist.
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@DeusExAngelo
"misrepresenting/reducting my view, accusing me of faulty logic and then yourself engaging"
ANd such an example being what exactly?
"you don't get it"! and that I am somehow being dishonest."
If you arent understanding what i said and are unable to counter what i said. how am i being dishonest? You dont even bother responding to anything i said. Nothing about the impending ethnic gen ocide of my people across the globe in a coordinated effort. No mention of group differences, or crime. like you just ignore it and give me platitudes like an indoctrinated leftist.
"No, I get exactly what you're about and what you want. It's clear it's not that you think pretty much anyone who is non-European is incompatible, dangerous, and/or inferior to anyone who happens to be of primarily European descent. "
We are different. genetics matter. Pretending all peoples are blank slates is a dangerous and naive worldview. Some peoples are better than others. This is objective fact. Some peoples build civilization s, others tear them down... Take south africa for instance... Developed and grown from the dutch settlers, and now its a shtshow with gruesome ethnic h8tred driving the m rder of whytes in south africa and the large part of many peoples are now starving as they destroyed the farms...
"You believe they feel that way about Europeans and ergo you."
They do, i see it every day with the distain and whyte h8tred. Remember, its ok to be proud of your people and ethnicity, unless you are a european, then you are the most evil type of person on the planet...
"That you want them as far away as possible from you because of this perception."
The red birds stay with the red birds, the blue birds stay with the blue birds. Nearly every single group of poeple on the planet in all of history have behaved with an in group preference. its a survival mechanism. Saying its wrong for a European people to stay a European people is astronomically mind boggling to me
"You want as pure and homogeneous an ethnostate you can get. Even suggesting to use violence to achieve it."
The red birds stay with the red birds, the blue birds stay with the blue birds. "violence" as in repatriation? like we did during 1929 and 1939? Its nto unheard of, its not evil, its not even that hard to do.... Nearly every single group of poeple on the planet in all of history have behaved with an in group preference. its a survival mechanism. Saying its wrong for a European people to stay a European people is astronomically mind boggling to me
"This is I said it reminds me of how leftists argue"
This is ironic because you are arguing from the viewpoint of a leftist. "if you arent with me you are against me" you ARE against me on the sheer fact you think im horribly wrong about the solution to the problem. You oppose the ethnic reality of europeans for some odd reason. Im jumping to conclusions? because im witnessing european ethnic gen ocide worldwide, and saying something about it? You seem to not care about the fate of european peoples.... i can only assume this is because you are not european... this would allude to the entire point i was making about in group preferences.
Ultimately, we both think the other is wrong or misled. I wish you the best, but I am not nor will I ever part of "your people" you wish I was. Nor I am obligated to be. Sorry.
Well you are either misled, or arent understanding the scale and threat of what im discussing.... You are free to live in your own world, but the reality of the words i have spoken are not erased by ignoring it.
"but I am not nor will I ever part of "your people" you wish I was. Nor I am obligated to be. Sorry."
so im summation, im arguing with a non european about the fate of europeans, and you not grasping the threat to my people is somehow me jumping to conclusions?
1800 come on now
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@MrRavellon lol yup, guess thats why the US and britian teamed up with the soviets to destroy nationalism, white identity, and the birth of the poisned foundation myth
For modern Westerners the story of WWII has become their foundation myth. It fulfills all three functions.
1) We live in the ‘Post-War World’. The lines on the map, the institutions, the sense of what era we live in, all arise from the starting point of WWII.
2) Ultimate evil is Nazis. Ultimate good is opposing Nazis. The values derived from these definitions are anti-racism, equality, diversity, anti-nationalism and so on.
3) The only thing that is held sacred, that cannot be denied or mocked in the contemporary West, is the Hall of cost
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@zefft.f4010
"The market can only be free without capitalism."
Then wtf is capitalism? government corruption? corporate lobbyists? endless taxation with a central bank?
"Economic power translates to political power, capitalism empowers wealth, wealth buys political influence, eventually wealth will abuse or outright seize centralized power."
Uh huh, so when we give the government (political power) authority to dictate what does is and is not allowed to take place as a form of commerce, this means that, which eventually cause lobbying, which causes changes in regulation, which creates consolidated corporation's and destroys competition, all the while under a centrally controlled banking system, and you say " thats capitalism" and not seeing that this is a result of centralized government, overregulation, and massive fraud and corruption... you just say " thats capitalism"
wtf is capitalism? because clearly this is a government/state/centeral bank problem, and not a problem with people rendering services or products for profit as a way of existing...
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@josephhoward4697
"There won’t be massive numbers of gas-powered cars after a while. After 2035, you’ll have to leave the state to get a gas-powered car."
Yes, because a government body arbitrarily decides its citizens no longer should have something, of course the numbers and usage will change when its forced via government intervention...
"Gas-powered cars will stick around for a while, but they’ll break down, or be sold out to neighboring states before they do break down."
And people will take them, fix them and drive them for decades longer, because thats something you can do with an ICE car that you cant with an electric car
"People are slowly going to become less willing to leave the state to get a car, or will simply leave the state altogether."
So not only is the state treating its citizens like children, they bot simultaneously lose taxpaying citizens to other states, while eliminating an entire category of tax collection at the same time they are spending tax money to force an alternative...
thats some 300IQ policy right there
"With electric cars becoming cheaper and cheaper, and increasing in range, the incentive to drive hundreds of miles for a new car will diminish. The number of gas-powered cars in the state will drop."
Yes, because the government interfered
"Businesses offering services unique to gas-powered cars will go under or undergo mergers. They’ll be fewer and further in between."
AHh yes so we can only get our electric only cars serviced at certified dealers forever, while simultaneously destroying an entire market worth of jobs
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@tuurschellekens5385
'Because it will outlast the car."
No it wont. saying it doesnt change reality
"you can just google it or contact old model s owners, I dont need to tell you."
apparently you do, because i DID google, any high mileage tesla has already had at least 1 battery replacement in its lifetime.. find me 200k+ telsas on original batteries and ill believe it
"Im not an anti ICE troll, I just go with what is superior and better for everyone."
And you are clearly doing a terrible job...
"How is what i said different with ICE vehicles? When an ICE vehicle is rusting away, or the engine is irreparably broken , you throw it out."
Or, you fix it? you are aware you can repair a rusty vehicle right? you are aware you can rebuild engines right? or at the very yeast can rebuild it with a replacement block, and you dont have to mine tonnes and tonnes of materials for batteries from third world countries, and then have to later deal with teh ecological disaster of now recycling these batteries
"Just as you would with an EV."
Um no
"It does. A guy with more than 30 years of experience and probably 30 more years than you is probably more knowledgeable than you"
And this is just an appeal to authority while not discussing the subject matter at all...
"Its not an inferior system, cameras with AI can detect things just as good as radar."
No
"It literally does that, dont argue with me"
Top notch argument bud
"I just did my research and listened to people with expertise. (Tesla has the best engineers)"
" i listened to tesla because tesla knows the best so they said tesla is the best so i believe them"
Wow dude ,not even gonna touch that
"Because you were talking about an ecological disaster in your original comment. ICE vehicles are the ecological disaster."
No, they really arent, and you keep pretending that it isnt is why it will be...
"Aah there we go, now the already refuted EV drawbacks are coming."
Sure buddy, sure
"Things like cobalt, which arent that good, are getting fased out, while they are also used for making gas. The process of getting them here is nothing different from other materials that are used for ICE cars."
This is just explaining to me you dont grasp how anything works
"Charging is really efficient and can be made even more green than it is now by making the entire grid greener.
this is just empty talking points with ZERO understanding of electricity, the grid, renewable energy. or how infrastructure works you cant grasp the logistics of these things, so you just listen to what other people tell you about it...
wow, you think too highly of yourself on a youtube comments section bro
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@tuurschellekens5385
"I dont think too highly of myself. You havent debunked any of my points with good arguments."
Yeah, you do... and you havent given me any arguments. You tell me teslas last great on original batteries, i ask prove it, you tell me to look it up, i look it up and see anyone with teslas over 200k has had at least 1 battery... the other guy said 500k, and i looked, there were telslas at 500k, but they were on their 3rd or 4th battery... saying i didnt give you a solid argument is a joke...
"The only thing you say is 'no' or 'you clearly dont know how it works'."
Its quite apparant
"Let me tell you, I have done my own research and I dont take info from others without investigating myself"
Sure you do.....
"I know how these things work in and out, I have read countless articles and stuff to know EVs are greener and that Tesla has the best engineers, etc."
Good lord dude
"If you would have had one good argument I would have been interested in reviewing your side of the story, but your arguments have only led me to believe you have 0 experience and knowledge about the topic."
You cant just " no u" my own point at you dude thats not how this works
"For example, how do you conclude I dont know anything about electricity from 1 sentence? In that sentence there isnt one lie"
You buy into this green EV cars are good for the environment garbage, when in reality they are just as bad as ICE, and current EVs are not going to be these amazing wonderful million mile things. You accuse me of being a hypocrite caring about the environment and preferring ICE vehicles... you are an arrogant green head who buys into all the schlop they read
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@CFIREytb
"Public transit is not 0 pollution, but you seem anti-ev on the basis of emissions or the environment"
No, im anti " installing batteries as integral parts of a cars frame" on the basis of the environment. and im against evs as a " magical cure-all for pollution in transportation" It also has glaring environmental issues as well...
"And since it has been proven time and time again that an EV is more environmentally efficient than a gas car (in lifetime emissions), I would have to assume you only use public transit. Since its the only thing with lower emissions."
Yeah see this isnt really an honest framing of the situation... Pumping out more evs (which STILL require resources, transportation, material gathering, and still need power to be created, and used) to replace ICE cars is just going to lead to further "disposable" behavior like replacing a phone every time something breaks. Its going to create far more waste than necessary, while keeping an ICE running longer and longer is reducing is pollution footprint while costing the end user less money generally speaking.
"you gave 0 evidence. I actually gave something. A small study is still better than no study and just ignoring facts about Lion we have known about for years."
Buddy, OP was about environmental waste by making the battery integrated into the frame of the car, thus rendering it impossible or extremely difficult to change the battery when it inevitably dies. the response to this is " well just get a new car" and then the complete lack of awareness of my point becomes apparent
you giving me a study talking about a car thats less than 10 years old is meaningless to the overall point of the discussion...
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@CFIREytb
"A Rebuilt Transmission(not a new one, but a fixed up one) was 3.5k including labor."
Right, so it can be fixed, and 3.5k isnt an absurd amount of money in regards to buying another vehicle.
"A car is totaled after like 2/3rds of value for a repair depending on the state/insurance company."
Im well aware. This doesnt change anything about what i said. It can still be fixed, and throwing it away is far more detrimental
"I did when we went on a tangent about public transit. Was my second reply I believe."
yeah no YOU went on a tangent about public transit, i never talked abou ti
"If you don't like trucks you don't buy ford. The f150 is the top selling vehicle for the past 40 years."
Yeah, and they have been trash for the last 20, but yeah, lets take a company that was instrumental in mass car ownership to stop making actual cars... wow... blows my mind how this is ok
"Wish the Mach-E didn't put mustang infront of it's name, it's a damn good ev thats only hated for the title they gave it."
I mean its still ugly, and suffers from the same problems modern fords do, plus teh problems EVs have..
"Also, Hyundai and VW gotchu then."
no, no one has me, only cars that are already existing have me
"And nobody is ever buying a musting for the environmental efficiency or as a daily driver (if they are their just stupid)."
Mmmkay, not sure what people buying a mustang for environmental impact has to do with anything i said while bringing up ford,. but if you are telling me people dont buy mustangs to daily all the time you clearly dont know the car market whatsoever. you do know v6 automatic mustangs were a thing, and sold well as people drove them all the time right? like i see mustangs all over the place...
"idk the exact details, but I sold it to a mechanic and I'm assuming he's either gonna replace the transmission on his own (negating the very high cost of mechanics) or use the parts to put into other minis."
Id bet you anything he went to a junkyard, bought a used transmission for 500 bucks, and tossed it in in an afternoon and flipped it for twice what you sold it for. . Again the point being it wasnt necessary to get rid of, and is very likely still driving
"Drive trains are incredibly expensive parts to replace. just a rebuilt transmission could be 2k+ that's not including every other part of the drive train that also exists."
As opposed to 30, 40, 50, and 60k$ new vehicles? or the 18-15k used market range? or another cheaper older car?
"Any car that needs a drivetrain replacement (so a car that's around 15 years old with 200k miles) will run you faaaaaaaaar over the value of the car."
Because the value of the car is arbitrary and has no real bearing on its ability to be repaired or its ability to function
"Only worth it on classics or if you are a mechanic"
You know basic and moderate car maintenance used to be something every car owner did regularly, but now that is relegated to " mechanics"
"An ev has 1-3 electric motors and a giant multi thousand pound battery. The only Ev this isn't true of is a Taycan(which has a 2 gear transmission). So, yes, the battery is half the drive train if not more."
well no the drive train would be the motors the battery would be equivalent to a fuel cell
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@jasonx7501 hey buddy, no one is buying your bullshit.
"Aside from the obvious plus of all bottom earners being able to afford to live, more money in more hands means more goods and services being purchased, thus driving commerce."
This is circular reasoning my dude, they dont get more money, it raises the ceiling so the government can collect more in taxes. " afford to live" while rent and property values continue to skyrocket, and the government allowed millions and millions of more people to pour into the country flooding the labor market, and artificially inflating the cost of living. Goods and services will cost more as an end result, no one gets ahead, and more people are pulled onto the floor.
"A higher minimum wage lowers the tax burden on everyone"
No, this means the government collects more in taxes, because thats how percentages work...
"since minimum wage today is such a joke, most people that work these jobs require government assistance just to get by."
And the reason for this is the government wants more people to be on the public dole..
all you are doing is increasing the number of people on minimum wage while doing nothing to address the problems of wage stagflation or artificially high cost of living..... it just makes more poor people
"Of coarse, the minimum wage issue in the US wouldn't be an issue if there wasn't such strong anti-union practices"
Unions are shit, and are a cancer to the labor industry. they are filled with cronies and corrupt individuals, that drags the entire union behind them and vote for terrible policies and vote for terrible politicians
"Labor unions are great in that they give workers more power to negotiate wages with companies and find a balance with their needs and the financial needs of the company."
Except they dont actually DO that. Its all a crony scam, just like government jobs. they gatekeep who runs unions, they gatekeep jobs, they even keep terrible employees because of nepotism and corruption, just look at the teachers unions ffs, im sure some are ok, but the vast majority are just as broken and corrupt as the governments they pander to...
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@Mezzo396
goddamn
1)" A 2010 study by Dube, Lester and Reich examined border counties on all instances nationwide where states raised MW. They found no evidence of detrimental effects on low-wage employment. This study is considered to be one of the gold standard studies for the sheer breadth of data it analyzes."
how is examining border countries going to give you data nationwide? I fail to see how increasing the supply of low wage workers has no effect on low wage jobs. feels like a source rebutting an argument im not making?
Overall, the evidence is strong that increasing the minimum wage (at current and historical minimum wage levels) leads to increases in incomes for low-wage workers.
sounds like magical bullshit.
2) "Look up marginal tax rates. Increased wages amongst low income earners isnt offset by the increase in taxation, they are still taking home a larger pay/additional hours."
again, not rebutting anything i said
3) "This argument doesnt make sense really - you have a ideologies that fall along a spectrum. Some believe in greater government action for the benefit of people, some don't. No one wants this for the sake of being dependent on government, they believe its a neccessity to protect the role of labor versus capital in an economy. Not sure why you mention stagflation, inflation in the US has remained below the targeted rate for decades. Wage stagnation is a real and isn't solved by giving capital owners larger tax breaks and deregulating labor standards.
?????????
4) "Unions are the only way for labor to organize and demand concessions from capital."
no
"Give me an alternative example of how labor can negotiate anything substantial if it isn't organized"
" i want X for my labor, no? im leaving."
"Employers hold massive power over individual workers in the US. Complaining about unions being corrupt is asinine, are you actually going to pretend big capital isnt corrupt? "
This isnt changing my point, or my mind on the subject. but go off some more
"If ALL systems have levels of corruption why does it matter, I'd rather have a system that is designed for the purpose of bargaining better wages and benefits from my corporate master."
Except because they are corrupted they dont do that and only serve global masters, and corporates masters....
6) "Corporations are far more corrupt and powerful than unions in the US."
Laughable assumption thanks though
"Except corporations are legally required to prioritize shareholder value, and I as an employee 0 power alone in negotiating concessions as a result"
This has nothing to do with the discussion whatseover
"Who cares if my union boss peddles a union job to his son if my CEO peddles a company to job his as well"
its the same thing? and i dont have to pay to be in a corrupt union? its like you ignore what i stated, and made arguments for things im not saying to prove a point or something,.
"The difference is the CEO is looking to lower my wage to boost his profit while my elected union boss has to deliver something."
The union boss doesnt have to deliver anything. its like you arent payin attention
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@Mezzo396
"How is the mw related to immigration?? You haven't made a point here. The minimum wage does what to immigration in the US? A minimum wage means a wage cannot go below it, immigrants cant drive it any lower. "
Ok, follow me on this one. Immigration (legal) increases the labor supply, making job turnover a non issue, as most places have lists of applicants constantly. This relates to my original point, where i brought up my example where an older employee dissatisfied with watching his hard work disappear as the min wage goes up to just under his new wage, asks for a higher wage, then is replaced by another worker. This example unironically happened to me twice , the second wasnt because of a min wage increase, but the same " fire the higher paid employee who complained with a new employee who needs a job" secondly, this doesnt even take into account under the table jobs, where even the government MW laws matter.
"Make an argument that is different then."
I reiterated what i said in the above comment.
Three things
1) If the new min wage now reflects your current wage, you as a more skilled laborer can negotiate a higher wage as a result. The raising of the floor doesn't disempower you in a negotiation.
I explained this above. employers would rather fire the higher paid employees and higher new employees because its cheaper. These types of decisions are made by people who usually are unable to actually do the job themselves...
"If you have skills that previously made you more valuable to an employer than the minimum wage earners this hasn't changed, except that your boss can't fire you for cheaper less skilled workers as they would cost the same as you currently do."
Yes, if the new wage is exactly the same as the older employees wage. but they can still fire you for wanting more money, they just find ways to do it.
2) If poorer people make more money and now make as much as you do, and the cost of living (inflation) does not increase, why do you care?
because the cost of living DOES go up
because if i work longer and harder only for the floor to rise up to me, what is the point of working harder? just keep demanding higher min wages
3) The study is the gold standard in the US on the impacts of minimum wage increases and labor market. How many studies have you mentioned so far? You have only given your opinion
feels more to appeal to authority more than having anything of substance brought to this discussion.
"immigration and the mw aren't related in the US"
I mean, everything is related, but ok dude
"Not to mention immigration's impact on deflating wages is minimal"
fucking laughable bullshit
"benefit to the economy as a whole."
nonsense
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@Mezzo396
"Ok, follow me on this one. Immigration (legal) increases the labor supply, making job turnover a non issue, as most places have lists of applicants constantly. "
1) This doesn't have anything to do with the mw. If I increase the min wage, how does this impact immigration into the US? Illegals aren't entitled to a mw, and legal immigration is fixed under different legislation. The supply of legal labor is already occuring regardless of a mw or not. Immigration and mw are seperate.
This is because you keep pretending none of these things are related in a system that they are all apart of... Immigration is a point i brought up as a response to raising the min wage is not actually solving the problem
2) The number of jobs inside the economy is not fixed. An increase in labor supply does not mean there are less jobs - this is the lump supply of labor fallacy. Increasing labor supply also increases labor demand because new people in an economy need more goods and services, in turn requiring more jobs to provide them.
Im not pretending that jobs are a fixed number in the economy. YOU are discounting the effect a endless labor pool has on relative employment. How do you even figure that this increase in labor increases demand? What good is this if the large numbers of people coming in are also the ones servicing others movin on in, leaving the people already here to fight for wahtever other jobs may exist in an economy where turnover is better than paying employees more, because there is always more people lining up for that job...
3) When has low skilled labor been in short supply in the US? When has there not been underemployment in the US in the low skilled job market?
When has that ever been something i said? but ok
"This relates to my original point, where i brought up my example where an older employee dissatisfied with watching his hard work disappear as the min wage goes up to just under his new wage, asks for a higher wage, then is replaced by another worker."
1) Sounds like this worker would have benefited from a union where he could collectively bargain for higher wages with his capital owner counterpart. A single low skilled laborer has no power in the relationship.
Right, then the same cronyism, and corruption that is currently in place in the corperate environment is then taken up by the uinion environment. Raising the min wage is not the solution
2) How does increasing the mw make his hard work dissapear?
Working hard, displaying proficiency at the workplace, and earning raises
"He isn't a skilled laborer then if he can be replaced by a low skilled mw worker at cost."
So unskilled labor can go fuck themselves? so unskilled labor cant get work experience, wage increases and transfer into other departments? why do all the hard work when you can just advocate for increasing min wage. then it doesnt matter
This example unironically happened to me twice , the second wasnt because of a min wage increase, but the same " fire the higher paid employee who complained with a new employee who needs a job" secondly, this doesnt even take into account under the table jobs, where even the government MW laws matter."
1) Sounds like you needed a union then.... You literally gave me this very scenario as a legitimate example of how unorganized labor should get a better wage. Sounds like even you acknowledge unorganized labor has relatively little power.
a union will not solve the problem with working retail, or in tech services. Unions will inevitably just inflate the costs of everything around them, crony up with corrupt government, and generally screw the lowest in the union while protecting terrible employees.... like most other unions
2) This is an anecdote. Studies in the US show that mw increases do not lead to a drop in jobs and instead lead to a rise in low income earners.
its all relative and meaningless if the reduce hours. also im a little tire of muh studies show, the entire academic institution is also corrupt, and you can get a study to say whatever you want and mostly serve as appeals to authority while discussing any given topic.
"I explained this above. employers would rather fire the higher paid employees and higher new employees because its cheaper. These types of decisions are made by people who usually are unable to actually do the job themselves.."
1) Sounds like an argument for labor to organize to collectively bargain concessions while protecting their jobs from the owner class.
Sounds like most of the wage increases will go to taxes and union dues, while not actually solving the problem with corruption, while simultaneously not addressing the overarching issues of immigration and outsourcing on the job market...
2) Hypothetical scenario - the current employees at $15 would either be skilled workers in lower income areas, or low skilled workers in high COL areas / with existing $15 min wage. A raise to $15 at a fed level wouldnt impact the latter, so lets look at the former. Assuming no unions here.
Can the owner fire the employee at $15 today and hire a lower cost employee at $7? Yes they can. So today the owner is already paying a premium above the floor rate for perceived skills. The skilled laborer has some leverage with his higher skilled labor in the negotiation, but at the end of the day the Cost/benefit anaylsis the owner can do always gives him the option to reduce labor costs.
If the gov raises the mw to $15 can he fire the higher skilled employee and higher the lower cost at $7? No. So the employer loses the ability to shirk costs off for lower skilled lower cost labor. How does the higher skilled older $15 laborer lose power in this scenario? His boss cant fire him for cheaper because hes already at the bottom.
The only person who gains power in this negotiation is higher skilled laborer, because unlike the previous scenario, the capital counterparty has less options.
How? raising the MW doesnt raise wages above it relative to its increase. just because the lowest jobs are now 15 doesnt mean everything in-between the old MW and the new MW increases relative to the MW, so his skills at 15 are only worth what other jobs will offer
"Yes, if the new wage is exactly the same as the older employees wage. but they can still fire you for wanting more money, they just find ways to do it. "
1) Again sounds like an argument for a union and better labor protection laws
muh unions ok dude, read above replies to muh unions
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@Mezzo396
"They aren't related today because no one is passing a bill on immigration, nor does passing one law mean you cannot pass the other. The amount of immigrants that are coming tomorrow and the day after etc. is fixed under a different set of laws. Given those are not changing today, why oppose a bill that helps poor people now. Your opposition to immigration is irrelevant to the mw because they are fucking seperate ideas and laws. My ideology isn't satisfied with a mw change either but I'm not opposed to it simply because it doesn't give me everything I want in the economy. Its a basic improvment for the lives of millions of American poor."
Because its not going to actually help the poor. its just passing the buck and letting the actual problems continue, because ACTUALLY SOLVING THEM isnt good for those in power, because continuing the status quo is what they want. My opposition doesnt really matter because its going to be done regardless.
I just explained how labor supply increases labor demand - humans consume goods and services. More humans = more consumption.
this is a how it happens on paper vs how it actually happens. the systems and infrastructure already in place dont have unlimited capacity to expand and grow, and resources arent infinite.
Stopping immigration isn't stopping population growth.
right, i ddint say it did
Look up the lump supply of labor fallacy and read about it yourself.
i did, which is also why i said "Im not pretending that jobs are a fixed number in the economy"
Low skilled labor is not in short supply today, we have massive underemployment. Adding more doesn't matter because there is already a high supply of low skilled labor by definition, anyone in the labor market can fufill it. The number of jobs will increase as the number of people increase. They arent fighting for THAT job, they are fighting over an increasing number of jobs as a result of any population growth that has happened for the past 50000 years.
"the systems and infrastructure already in place dont have unlimited capacity to expand and grow, and resources arent infinite. "
There is only so much space, there is only so many things that can be made at any given time. Im trying to address issues that go back decades, adn have been problems for decades, because the only things that get passed are things that continue the status quo for the people in charge...
"Right, then the same cronyism, and corruption that is currently in place in the corperate environment is then taken up by the uinion environment. Raising the min wage is not the solution"
1) Can I vote my CEO out? Can I influence him in any serious way?
Can you vote in a union where the same cronyism in government takes place, and we have people we dont like doing things we dont want them do to under the guise of a democratic vote?
2) What is the purpose of a union? What is the purpose of the corporation? Are they different?
Yes of course they are different, why does that matter?
3) Why do studies show wealth inequality increasing and wages stagnating as labor unions were killed in the mid-late 20th C?
When did jobs start getting exported to other counties and what governmental laws or regulations led to this? When did immigration laws change? Unions can only work if the same people who work there way into local governments , are not able to run the unions, but this always ends up happening. Im not anti union, im pro pointing things out that arent going to fix the problem, and are just bandaids
4) Why does Germany still have a strong manufacturing sector and the US doesn't?
Because the US government has sold out the American people for over a hundred years? your evil CEO's are the same types for people running the government and end up being the same people that gain control of major unions.....
In your world - we would be subject to the corrupt corporate overlords and capital class,
right because we could just trust the unions to not do the same thing our elected officials do when they are the same people as muh evil CEO's...
"enjoy the bootlicking"
Lol sure bud that TOTALLY it
Explain any other scenario whereby unorganized labor has a real chance of demanding concessions for a better living.
i dont have a scenario, but maybe infinite growth isnt a good thing for the little guy, so maybe address that problem, along with corrupt governments in bed with global multinationals, or everything else is moot
How has the fact that your boss has underpaid you for your work mean your hard work dissapears?
disappears because the time spend working and becoming better at the job no longer matters, because now the new wage is higher.
You are being screwed today by your capital owner and have decided to blame the poor and powerless person below you. Fucking christ.
Thats not at all what im doing but go off champ, go off
Unskilled labor gets fucked already my dude. What are you talking about? The boss can fire the unskilled worker today the minute he wants to.
right, and all raising the min wage does is raise the poverty floor making more people the same level of poor as min wage.
You have bought into the lie your corporate overlords have sold you - work hard little good piggy and one day you'll earn the right to clean the sports car they earned off your work.
I guess the only work that exists is corporate work because small business dont exist anymore because they cant compete, dont have the massive capitol to afford endless government regulation and taxation, same with all those self employed people who again cant compete.
Heres a basic hint - if a boss make money off work you do he is exploiting your labor for himself.
Sounds like marxs theory of surplus value, but then by this very definition every single job is exploitation of labor
He can do this because of the current system of capitalism that has sold you a lie that hard work means something when the only thing that matters is power in the relationship and how much profit the capital class makes off of it.
muh capitalism is the bad guy
Power is not earned by hard work for the low skilled laborer, because right behind them is the next generation of teenagers and immigrants and the older recently laid off people clamoring for work. Power is only possible by labor organizing into a block to demand together a concession from the capital owner that he cannot exploit by firing
yup self employed, small business, and climbing the job ladder dont exist in your world
But in your worldview the issue is immigrants coming in and stealing a job a Mexican with no degree and no English can do well enough to still make money for his owner. Why blame this poor fucker instead of the asshole firing and hiring people to buy himself a 2nd home.
Because the same fucker hiring them is the same fucker in charge of the unions, and the same fuckers in charge of the government, and the same fuckers in charge of these corporate global industries. Why would they solve any of the problems that are working out really well for them...
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@Mezzo396
"It raises their earnings without hurting their job prospects and increasing their COL. Its literally an improvement today and the only reason so far you've opposed it is somehow you want them to stop immigrants. Its unrelated."
Yeah its clear you dont actually want to have a discussion here, because that is not at all the only reason i oppose it. but please continue being dishonest
Imagine being a capitalist and not believing in infinite growth.
Imagine calling someone a capitalist while not doing capitalist things. Its almost like you arent arguing with me, you are arguing with a caricature of what you think my thoughts opinions and beliefs are are based off of your willful misinterpretation of my words.. amazing
We also havent reached any sort of capacity in the US. We are 27 times less densely populated than the UK.
Nah, we are pretty close to capacity and what the blue fuck does the UK have to do with my argument? you think the same things dont apply to the UK? of course it does.
"Raising the mw is not status quo, its the fucking opposite."
Uh, not doing anything to solve the problems causing the need for raising the MW is absolutely status quo
"The founding fucking ideas of our country are population growth and immigration."
No they arent
Literally every motherfucker here other than those on reservations are descendents of immigrants or slaves to this land.
There is a vast chasm of a difference between pre 1965 immigration and post 1965 immigration. this also discounts that immigration 100 years ago was nothing like immigration today, and vast swaths of the country were uninhabited.
"I have more power in my union than I do in a company without a union."
Perceived power sure
"Blaming the brown guy isnt solving my issues at work."
yeah thanks for strawmanning my argument, good work showing me how honest you are.
"Companies are corrupt and CEOs use this corruption to enrich themselves. But CEOs also enrich shareholders. Union bosses can be corrupt to, but dont get anything from enriching shareholders."
Right, they just enrich themselves, and the crony government employees that use these unions for their own needs...
"When did jobs start getting exported to other counties and what governmental laws or regulations led to this? When did immigration laws change? Unions can only work if the same people who work there way into local governments , are not able to run the unions, but this always ends up happening. Im not anti union, im pro pointing things out that arent going to fix the problem, and are just bandaids"
"My great grandparents took a boat with no money and no knowledge of English, had no degrees and no skilled labor. All they had to do was walk off the boat into the US and signed papers to become citizens. Was the country great then? Laws have only become more stringent over the history of this country. I dont know what the fuck you are talking about with immigration in the US, most of us aint from a fucking tribe"
And i dont know what the fuck you are talking about here...
Jobs got exported because unions got crushed by government and corporations.
So government causes the problem, then offers teh solution, amazing, almost like ive heard this problem raction solution thing before....
Any power they had was wiped out and good ol neoliberalism helped them along the way. you have no answer to fix the problems other than stopping immigration to a country founded by fucking immigrants.
No the country was founded by pioneers and settlers, and were of from European descent. " nation of immigrants" is some bullshit gaslighting adn historical revisionism by the powers that be.
CEOs and union bosses arent the same.
thanks for pointing out the obvious
You can tell that because Union bosses lost all their power and CEOs have become richer over the past decades.
And these ceos do this by using government intervention to destroy competition, and craft favorable legislation, i guess the only solution is more government.....
"The only thing you're worldview has done is genocide minorities in communities and put immigrants in boxes while letting the rich still rob us."
Wow and i thought you were lost before... its almost like you have no intention of understanding what im talking about, and only want to push your worldview onto me
"i dont have a scenario, but maybe infinite growth isnt a good thing for the little guy, so maybe address that problem, along with corrupt governments in bed with global multinationals, or everything else is moot
"
Without growth capitalism fails. Stop being a capitalist then
what the fuck are you talking about? why do you need infinite growth? what the fuck is an actual capitalist then? you seem to think you know me, but clearly you dont
"Corrupt governments in bed with global multinationals are going to be stopped how? You oppose organized labor. You oppose government regulation to disempower capital owners. You only approve of government actions on borders."
Gee i dunno, what would more government regulation ( lobbied by these ceos and miultinationals) going to do other than continue the status quo?
"Honest question, do you sympathize with facists?"
No? so am i a capitalist or a fascist? which one? are they interchangeable? read my mind some more and tell me what i think some more...
You have no solution but banging on migrants so far.
because thats how the conversation turned? and you keep telling me its a non issue?
heres a solution
End the fed
End federal income tax
Massive tarrifs on imported goods
but that work work either, because the mechanism to deliver those solutions is continually subverted but the powers that be
If these poor are now better off what difference does it make? Is your issue that you think poor people with nothing don't deserve the scraps you've managed to claw from your capital owners? Does the piggy think hes special because they gave him a little more than your brown neighbour?"
Its like you arent trying to have a discussion, its sad and pathetic that you just name call... imagine acting like this... just imagine disregarding what i say, and just putting words in my mouth and calling me names... can you imagine?
Guess we just have to let corporations off the hook because god forbid the small business would be subject to a regulation. Cant use organized labor, cant use government, only can watch videos on yt and comment about migrants.
Yeah or we could address the problem with cronyism and corruption in the system instead of trying to use the system to change the system, thatll totally work and not do the exact same things thats been done for decades. this time it will SURELY work
"Sounds like marxs theory of surplus value, but then by this very definition every single job is exploitation of labor"
Ding ding ding
Oh boy, i hear helicopters now!
"muh capitalism is the bad guy"
muh immigrants in a country of immigrants that used to be great when it was just my kind of immigrants. also muh infinite growth but not infinite growth.
Yeah crazy its almost like you arent being honest here. thanks though, wouldnt expect much different from a marxist
"yup self employed, small business, and climbing the job ladder dont exist in your world"
If you work extra hard im sure your nice owner will give some more good boi points to spend, just make sure not to ask for too many good boi points because hell fire you.
Again, complete dishonesty here
"Because the same fucker hiring them is the same fucker in charge of the unions, and the same fuckers in charge of the government, and the same fuckers in charge of these corporate global industries. Why would they solve any of the problems that are working out really well for them."
Where are the unions my dude? They were bashed in the skull by corporations in 20th C.
yeah crazy it was almost like the government lobbied by corperations and multinationals destroyed the country... weird how you want to use the same governments to fix the problem they cause with solutions they propose...
Yeah Id love a revolution but I aint getting one today, I'll take my basic shit like a living wage today and fight for the rest tomorrow. I aint wasting my breath on trying to kick out my brown neighbors for trying to make a living.
yeah muh skin color
you are a sad sad unhappy marxist, and its kind of pathetic
you know i could have sworn marx said something about immigration being bad for the working class....
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@Mezzo396
We're back to the part where you go off on how you never said this and this wasnt your argument ad nasuem. Fun.
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"See above"
See below
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"Source we are at capacity? The fact we have a population density that is TWENTY SEVEN TIMES less than the UK and the UK isnt a collapsing black hole is probably solid evidence the US isnt at anything close to capacity.
yeah i guess if you account that having massive population centers isnt already pushing capacity, and housing is totally not an issue in the uk, ok pal. Piling more and more people into population dense cities isnt going to make any of this better....
"Should we start planning on implementing population controls to reduce birth rates too?"
Or we could oh i dunno, reduce immigration a little? i mean its not like were taking more immigrants now than ever before or anything..
"the populations growing regardless buddy."
no shit, whos saying they dont? Im sure not...
"Uh, not doing anything to solve the problems causing the need for raising the MW is absolutely status quo"
The problems arent immigrants to a country founded by fucking immigrants.
Immigration is a part of the problem, this is a nation of settlers and pioneers, but go ahead and keep giving my that garbage line some more.
We put a poem about it on a giant statue in one of our most prominent cities.
It has nothing to do with the statue, and was written by an immigration lobby group member, but yeah totally legit
"We handed out citizenship to fuckers like it was candy. White people arent native to this land, by definition our founding was based on immigration from one place of origin to this one."
You are conflating land mass with nation, and immigration in the last few decades is far far different than immigration of over a hundred years ago, so dont give me this nonsense
"There is a vast chasm of a difference between pre 1965 immigration and post 1965 immigration. this also discounts that immigration 100 years ago was nothing like immigration today, and vast swaths of the country were uninhabited. "
What are the vast chasms of differences
Sheer numbers of immigrants first off. then we can talk about the infrastructure and economy differences in both eras, we can talk about where they come from, and we can talk about the forming of ethnic enclaves and get into a discussion about multiculturalism, but im 99% sure you dont want an honest discussion
And yeah minus the millions of Native Americans it was totally empty. It wasnt like a giant genocide was committed to move in.
yeah because all native americians were all the same, and nothing else happened other than white man bad hurting non white man
Facts and data disagree. Organized labor is more powerful than unorganized labor.
You have the same power the average citizen has from keeping the US from bombing the middle east... so effectively none
Back to the first comment
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"Study after study shows the correlation between union decline and wage staganation and wealth inequality."
You point out to me the capitalist class is evil, yet you keep quoting words from people who benefit from their existence...
what the hell are you talking about it was a walk in the park?
"So government causes the problem, then offers teh solution, amazing, almost like ive heard this problem raction solution thing before...."
Do you think all government action is the same?
No, but all action from corrupt governments will almost always benefit the corrupt ones...
"If the government does something that is bad, that doesnt somehow make any government action bad. This isnt an argument."
This isnt the argument im making.....
The country was founded by immigrants
ok, whatever you say dude
"They are not native to this land, this land was not empty, it was occupied by another civilization."
No, it actually wasnt, native Americans werent a monolith, and yes vast majority of the land was empty, but please continue with your historical revisionism
" White people are not native to the Americas."
And native americians arent native to those lands either, they too migrated from elsewhere, like every single peoples before...
"How does the European descent matter unless you have some prevailing notion about non white immigration?"
Because Europeans are a global minority but are always the bad guy in the historical sense, and pointing out that majority European nations are becoming minority European is somehow bigoted and racist to point out...
"And these ceos do this by using government intervention to destroy competition, and craft favorable legislation, i guess the only solution is more government..."
So again no organized labor, no government action. Just sit back because you have no other solutions to a problem.
Or stop giving the establishment what it wants and try to actually address actual problems instead of living inside the controlled left right paradigm
"Once again see first comment"
Once again, my reply
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"Capitalist economies without growth is in a depression."
so there is no such thing as a self sustaining economy?
"Read the first comment."
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"You could, you know, utilize organized labor to lobby on labors behalf for concessions? Ban money in politics, end citizens united. There are plenty of anti corruption legislative items that could be passed. Social security, medicare, civil rights act are all massive government passed actions that broke the status quo, several of these are against the interests of capital."
If you think those things are against the status quo i cant really say anything
It was a question. You arent a fascist then?
Well im not a capitalist, yet you call me one, now you assume im a fascists,. so clearly you have differing definitions of what these terms mean
"read the first comment."
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"heres a solution
1 End the fed
2 End federal income tax
3 Massive tarrifs on imported goods
but that work work either, because the mechanism to deliver those solutions is continually subverted but the powers that be"
Explain how any of this helps the working class, deals with wage stagnation and wealth inequality.
1. Having a non government run 3rd party given the power to control the money supply, is a recipe for disaster
"He who controls the money supply of a nation controls the nation."
2. the federal income tax, originally being sold as a temporary war effort, manages to suck away wealth from the lowest paid. Before you tell me the poor dont pay taxes, im talking about the people who work and are taxed at a both federal and state level and cant afford legions of lawyers to avoid paying endless taxes to a government that is corrupt and funnels money into crony programs, hence the trillions in debt...
3. before the income tax was implemented the cast majority of federal money came from tariffs. Making it more expensive to import goods rather than to make them locally would undoubtedly help return manufacturing to the country instead of relying on nations the world across, helping both domestic job markets, and the environment as many of the nations where things are imported from have much lower emissions and pollution standards and laws.
Whining again, first comment applies.
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"Explain your solution to dealing with cronyism"
Uhhh stringing up politicans and lobbyists by lightpoles in minecraft?
Cute, do you sympathize with fascists killing commies then? Honest question.
do you sympathize with socialist famines and mass deaths? honest question
Another whine, think about 50% of your response has been this without ever addressing a single point.
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"yeah crazy it was almost like the government lobbied by corperations and multinationals destroyed the country... weird how you want to use the same governments to fix the problem they cause with solutions they propose..."
This one time my government dropped a few nukes. This other time it genocided a bunch of people. Yesterday it sent a check to my grandma for living expenses. Kinda like the government can do different things depending on who you put in charge of it and what you want it to do. Almost like some action is good and some other actions are bad. Weird.
Yeah, the average person can control if my governmetn nukes people the same way you can control a union...
"yeah muh skin color
you are a sad sad unhappy marxist, and its kind of pathetic"
Your the only person complaining about migrants not of European descent here. Im happy enough with my life as it is, just glad I dont blame the brown guy for my issues, because darn it we were doing real swell till we hit 300million people or some arbitrary number.
Yeah again, its almost like you arent addressing what im saying... like a dishonest marxist or something
"whining"
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
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@1pcfred
"how is the government taking what does not belong to it? You do realize that all money is government property, don't you? "
Actually no, its not, its property printed by the treasury as money gained by a federal reserve loan, so technically its not the governments money, its the banks money, so in either case you are incorrect. the government isnt just taking its own property...
They made the stuff after all.
No they didnt do a goddamn thing, they didnt do anything that was involved in the tasks of getting paid for labor and services. The government coming in for their cut is theft
They further created and perpetuate the environment where you can prosper at all.
Weird how we had a functioning economy, roads, and buildings before the enaction of the federal reserve?
Without the civilization that governments allow to exist your existence would be chaotic and brief.
Wow, ok so clearly we have different views of how the world works...
"I cannot imagine the likes of someone like you even making it to maturity. That little the government puts to good use does more than you'll ever know.
"
Ok, i played along because i was pretty sure you were genuine, but this just really tells me otherwise... you cant honestly say to my face that the government spending is good, and that they do a better job than I would with my own money? CMon now
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@viysnjor4811
"More Europeans were EXCLUDED by that definition of "white" than were INCLUDED"
Right, because it was originally a white european nation, ( which means it WAS an close to homogenous , even with your semantics arguments) and now more groups of similar descent are considered " white" but this doesnt change the fact that the nation was created and intended to be " white"
" Irish, Catholic Scots, Italians, Spanish, Portuguese, Russians, Greeks, Poles and on and on"
And of these groups, who would be more " white" than previously, are ALL MINORITIES and are ALL being made " minorities" even in their homelands, INCLUDING the us...
please, continue arguing semantics
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@rattslayer
"decades of conspiracies" have been proven true. In my experience, 99% of conspiracies dissapear into the night."
sure bud, also disappear* second, this stuff goes all the way back to adam weishaupt
"A grand conspiracy, like the WEF pushing changes to ownership would take the involvement of tens of thousands, if not millions of people. "
Does it? or does it just need to involve a small handful of very influential people in high segments of big business, government, banking, and international finance...
"I'm easy to talk to, i just need evidence to back up claims."
I mean the WEF is literally laying everything out for you ,. you just call it a conspiracy theory and ignore it. These people are the same people that meet at Builderburg, and are on the council of 300. Have you ever hear of Jekyll island?
"And WHY go the conspiracy theory, when greed has been proven time and time enough to drive people to do this kind of shit."
Lol " its just greed" it doesnt matter when th people involved are the ones printing the currency. it literally doesnt matter if its profitable, because it will just be subsidized either way
people who say there's no grand conspiracies, or its impossible to do something like that have clearly not looked hard enough.
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@rattslayer
once again, you are just dropping names. You are not providing evidence, here you are not even providing claims, just conspiracy based talking points.
"talking points" You sound insufferable and nothing i ever post for you will ever be enough.
WHAT about the Bilderberg Group. What policies of theirs have they pushed, which ones have been implemented, what is the result of this, and where is the evidence for this?
So a secretive group of billionaires, business magnates, politicians, get together to discuss how they plan to move their industries/nations/fortunes forward, ISNT a group conspiring to do things? cmon now
"WHAT about Jekyll island. What happened there, When did it happen, what was the result of it, and where is the evidence of what this caused?"
Really? are you joking? This tells me you have done nothing to look into the things you dismiss so fervently
"Jekyll Island was the location of a meeting in November 1910 in which draft legislation was written to create a central banking system for the United States. Following the Panic of 1907, banking reform became a major issue in the United States"
"where is the evidence of what this caused?"
We have a central bank singed into law in 1913..... what a coincidence that a bunch of super rich powerful people got together and pushed for their plans... crazy
"Without any kind of evidence, you are shouting into the wind, barely even making bothering to make claims, and you are surprised that i'm not taking you seriously."
You cant even articulate what you even want as evidence. There are people that exist pushing their influence, and you are sitting there and telling me it isnt a conspiracy? Cmon now
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@Michael45007 >invent trash on biden
>literal video evidence of biden
lmfao
also
PRESSURE ON COMEY TO END PROBE OF MICHAEL FLYNN This includes the president’s statement to then-FBI Director James Comey regarding the investigation of then-national security adviser Michael Flynn. Trump told Comey: “I hope you can see your way to letting this go.”
So nothing, you know, because the entire thing was a farce
PRESIDENT’S REACTION TO THE CONTINUING RUSSIA INVESTIGATION Among the evidence is the president telling then-White House counsel Don McGahn to stop Attorney General Jeff Sessions from recusing himself from the Russia investigation and Trump’s subsequent anger at Sessions. Trump also contacted Comey and other intelligence agency leaders to ask them to push back publicly on the suggestion that Trump had any connection to the Russian election-interference effort.
So a man being witch hunted asked to see if it could be stopped, ok? the investigation continued
3. FIRING OF COMEY AND AFTERMATH Mueller’s report says “substantial evidence” indicates Trump’s decision to fire Comey in May 2017 was the result of the FBI director’s unwillingness to say publicly that Trump was not personally under investigation. On the day after Trump fired Comey, the president told Russian officials that he had “faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”
this stopped the investigation? i missed the part where comey admitted wrongdoing in hilldawgs case, yet wouldn't move to indict
4. APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COUNSEL AND EFFORTS TO REMOVE HIM Trump reacted to news of Mueller’s appointment by telling advisers that it was “the end of his presidency.” The president told aides that Mueller had conflicts of interest and should have to step aside. His aides told Trump the asserted conflicts were meritless. Following media reports that Mueller’s team was investigating whether the president had obstructed justice, Trump called then-White House counsel Don McGahn at home and directed him to have Mueller removed. McGahn refused.
" he said things"
nothing happened
investigation continued unabated
5. FURTHER EFFORTS TO CURTAIL THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’s INVESTIGATION Trump instructed former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski to have Sessions publicly announce that, notwithstanding his recusal from the Russia investigation, the investigation was “very unfair” to the president, the president had done nothing wrong, and Sessions planned to meet with Mueller to limit him to “investigating election meddling for future elections.”
man who is witch hunted doesnt want to be witch hunted, got it, investigation still continued
6. EFFORTS TO PREVENT PUBLIC DISCLOSURE OF EVIDENCE In summer of 2017, Trump learned that the news media planned to report on the June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower between senior campaign officials and Russians offering derogatory information about Hillary Clinton. The president directed aides not to publicly disclose the emails setting up the meeting. Before the emails became public, the president also edited a press statement for Donald Trump Jr. by deleting a line that acknowledged that the meeting was “with an individual who (Trump Jr.) was told might have information helpful to the campaign.”
the meeting was literally nothing, and the " russian" had ties to fusion GPS and the DNC, so get real here, this did nothing to stop or impede the investigation
7. ADDITIONAL EFFORTS TO HAVE SESSIONS TAKE CONTROL OF INVESTIGATION At several points in between July 2017 and December 2017, Trump tried to get Sessions to declare that he was no longer recused from the Russia investigation and would assert control over it. The report says there’s evidence that one purpose of asking Sessions to step in was so that the attorney general would restrict the investigation’s scope.
" people asked for things that never happened so the investigation continued"
8. TRUMP ORDERS WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL TO DENY THAT PRESIDENT TRIED TO FIRE MUELLER In an Oval Office meeting in February 2018, Trump told McGahn to “correct” a New York Times story that reported Trump had earlier instructed McGahn to fire Mueller. Trump also asked why McGahn had told Mueller’s investigators about the directive to remove Mueller. McGahn told Trump he had to tell the investigators the truth.
so this stopped the investigation? or is this more bullshit?
9. TRUMP’S ACTIONS TOWARD, FLYNN, MANAFORT AND OTHER POSSIBLE WITNESSES Mueller looked at whether Trump’s sympathetic messages to Flynn, former campaign manager Paul Manafort and others were intended to limit their cooperation with Mueller’s investigation. When Flynn began cooperating with prosecutors, Trump passed word through his lawyer that he still had warm feeling for Flynn and asked for a “heads up” if Flynn knew of information implicating Trump. Trump praised Manafort during and after his criminal convictions, and refused to rule out a pardon for his former campaign chairman.
" people said things"
when did the investigation stop?
10. TRUMP ACTIONS TOWARD MICHAEL COHEN Mueller noted that Trump’s conduct toward Cohen, a former Trump Organization executive, changed from praise to castigation after Cohen began cooperating with prosecutors. The evidence could “support an inference that the president used inducements in the form of positive messages in an effort to get Cohen not to cooperate, and then turned to attacks and intimidation
so nothing you bring up had to do with russia at all, there was no collusion with russia for the election, and everyone in jail was on process crimes or that one guy who had money laudnering shit from before the election but again
nothing, you have nothing, 3 years of investigating, and nothing, the entire report, is nothing, i have it, please show me where anything substantial happened
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@robinhood5627
That's not correct what-so-ever.
Oh?
It caused a temporary global dimming effect due to ash and sulphate particulates blanketing the stratosphere. The dimming only lasted for around 5 years with the worst of it dissipating within 1 year.
So the first part is correct, a volcano that caused a years long effect, was again, only temporary.
Human activity has been adding CO2 to the atmosphere since the dawn of coal powered industry and agriculture around 1750. Since that time human population has more than octupled thanks to industry. We are a gargantuan organism that coats the entire planet like a skin. We are the biggest contributor to CO2 in the history of this planet with the only exception being the Siberian traps some 252 million years ago. You are very deluded if you honest believe the whole of humanity has no effect on the atmospheric makeup of this planet. Of course we do! we are pumping out more CO2 each and every day than a volcanic eruption the size of the Tambora eruption put out.
So, " we pump out more c02 every day than the tambora eruption"?
two questions here,
How much c02 was released by that volcano?
and
How much C02 is " we"
You are insane to think this has no effect. All of our science says it does. The IPCC even though it's way off and too conservative says this is devastating, and like I said, it's wrong, it's way way worse.
" even though they are wrong about the data, the point still stands" yeah sure
But believe whatever you like, it doesn't matter either way at this point. The CO2 already exists and the damage is already done, the heating is locked in and no matter what we do we will see no change in that heating.
I mean the warming effect of c02 is limited considering it is such a small part of the overall climate
And we will do nothing, because too many people are as deluded as those in this comment section. So time will prove me right, at least I get the satisfaction of my last words being "I told ya so" with a smug look.
Holy fuck man, how amazing you project your smugness upon me. I love arguing about c02 because it completely ignores and avoids the real pollution problem, but that would require accepting that the US and most of the first world are far better at managing pollution and waste than others.... say india or china
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@robinhood5627
Yes the warming effect of co2 IS limited. It counts for about 40% of total GHGs in the atmosphere.
No
"The most common gases in Earth's atmosphere are nitrogen (78%), oxygen (21%), and argon (0.9%). The next most common gases are carbon dioxide (0.04%)"
carbon dioxide (0.04%)
0.04%
Water Vapour is the biggest GHG and does way more to trap heat than CO2.
right, but theres always a but
BUT the co2 WE have emitted has slowly over almost 300 years warmed the planet enough to cause other GHGs to be emitted, Methane and Nitrogen from over 7000 sources of clathrates in seas, oceans, lakes and rivers around the whole world. More being released from the permafrost in the Arctic.
The seas? you mean the seas we havent explored more than 20% of? you mean the same sea that is also involved in the heating and warming cycles of the earth, but we dont have a precise accounting of its effects, but its TOTALLY bad and going to cause a runaway reaction
I can't be bothered to go into more example but trust me there are dozens, yes CO2 is tiny, but it's built up over the years and it has more of a trigger / accelerant effect causing other things to provide more bulk heating.
Sure, totally, because all the other predictions were so accurate, im sure this one will be too
As for the west being better at waste management, sure we pack it up onto cargo ships, sail it around the globe and give it to indonesia to dump into the ocean. Or did you mean GHGs? if so you need to understand India and China's emissions are largely due to production of crap for the western markets as well as their own massive populations.
But yes they are terrible polluters.
And if we didnt offshore manufacturing things would be made in first world countries with first world pollution requirements. Its not like i wanted it to turn out that way, but here we are, and now the first world nations have to pay billions of dollars for tax credits to save the earth...
My advice stop buying plastic tat and importing it in. But at least you are acknowledging there is a GHG pollution issue, that's a good start.
Stop buying and making shit in china, stop importing pajeets so they stop sending money home, and plant trees... problem solved
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@chungboislim2061 who owns the media
Arthur O Sulzberger Jr. – Chairman & Publisher
Arthur O Sulzberger Jr. is Chairman and Publisher of the New York Times. Arthur O Sulzberger Jr. is ✡. According to JPost, a ✡ news publication, the Sulzbergers are a ✡ family
Michael Golden – Vice Chairman
Michael Golden is Vice Chairman of the New York Times. Michael Golden is ✡. Michael Golden is the father of Hays Golden , who is also on the New York Times’ board of directors , and the son of Ruth Sulzberger Holmberg, who is the sister of Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, who was ✡.
Arthur Greg Sulzberger – Deputy Publisher
Arthur Greg Sulzberger is Deputy Publisher of the New York Times. Arthur Greg Sulzberger is Jewish. Arthur Gregg is the son of Arthur O Sulzberger Jr , whose father, Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, was the New York Times publisher before him. [16]. According to JPost, a ✡ news publication, the Sulzbergers are a ✡ family
Mark Thompson – President & CEO
Mark Thompson is the President and CEO of the New York Times. Mark Thompson’s wife is ✡. The Independent has confirmed that his Thompson’s wife, Jane Blumberg, is ✡. The ✡ Voice of NY has likewise confirmed
Joseph Kahn – Managing Editor
Joseph Kahn is the Managing Editor of the New York Times. Joseph Kahn is ✡. Joseph Kahn is the son of Leo Kahn, a co-founder of Staples Inc. who was ✡, according to the ✡Telegraphic Agency.
Meredith Kopit Levin - Executive Vice President, Chief Operating Officer
Meredith Kopit Levin is Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of the New York Times. Meredith Kopit Levin is ✡ . Meredith’s husband, Jason Levin , has stated, "I am ✡ . I had my bar mitzvah in Israel.”
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@chungboislim2061 who owns the media pt2
James Bennet – Lead Editor, Editorial Page
James Bennet is the Lead Editor for the Editorial Page of the New York Times. James Bennet is ✡. Rocky Mountain News has confirmed that James Bennet is the brother of politician Michael Bennet who is also ✡.. James and Michael are the sons of Susanne Klejman Wed to D. J. Bennet Jr. The publication US News has likewise confirmed that James’ and Michaels’ mother was Polish-✡ .. Several publications have likewise confirmed that Michael Bennet is ✡, including ✡Virtual Library the ✡publication JWeekly, and the Israeli-based newspaper Times of Israel.
David Perpich – President & General Manager, The Wirecutter
David Perpich is President and General Manager of the New York Times’ The Wirecutter. David Perpich is . Perpich was married in a ✡wedding ceremony performed by Rabbi Harvey J. Winokur. Perpich is the newphew of current New York Times publisher, Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.
Rebecca Blumenstein – Deputy Managing Editor
Rebecca Blumenstein is Deputy Managing Editor of the New York Times. Rebecca Blumenstein is ✡. Joanna Barsh and Johanna Lavoie write in their book, “Centered Leadership”, that Rebeccae Blumenstein’s family moved to Essexville, Michigan, where Rebacca as the “only ✡ kid in her fourth grade.”. Rebecca and her husband Paul’s life stories have been featured in The ✡Chronicle..
Paul Walborsky – Senior Vice President, NYT Global
Paul Walborsky is Senior Vice President, NYT Global. Paul Walborsky is ✡. Walborsky was married to Liann Schottenstein in a Jewish wedding performed by Rabbi Aaron M. Petuchowski.. Paul and Liann have donated to the Addison-Penzak JCC of Silicon Valley, a ✡or organization.. Paul and Liann are also donors to JValley (The ✡Federation of Silicon Valley).
Nick Rockwell - Executive Vice President & Chief Technology Officer
Nick Rockwell is an Executive Vice President and the Chief Technology Officer for the New York Times.. It is unclear whether or not Nick is ✡. However, nick’s sister Alexandra is married to David Kissinger, who is ✡
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@chungboislim2061 who owns the media pt4
*SECTION 3: NYT Chief Correspondents*
Mark Leibovich – Chief National Correspondent
Mark Leibovich is the Chief National Correspondent for the New York Times.. Mark Leibovich is ✡. The Forward, a ✡ publication, has confirmed that Leibovich is ✡, stating that Leibovich tries to channel his “✡ outside status” and that Leibovich “is the son of a ✡ immigrant from Argentina.” [98].
Shane Goldmacher – Chief Political Correspondent
Shane Goldmacher is the Chief Political Correspondent for the New York Times. Shane Goldmacher is ✡ . Shane’s Grandparents are Ruth and Jerry Goldmacher.
Peter Baker – Chief White House Correspondent
Peter Baker is the Chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times.. Peter Baker’s wife is ✡. Baker is married to Susan Glasser who the Daily Caller has reported is ✡..
Cheryl Stolberg – Chief Domestic Affairs
Cheryl Stolberg is the Chief Domestic Affairs Correspondent for the New York Times.. Cheryl Stolberg is ✡ . Stolberg has confirmed that she is ✡ in articles written for the New York Times, which have included her discussing “being ✡ ” and having “a ✡ background.”
Michael Gordon – Chief Military Correspondent
Michael Gordon is the Chief Military Correspondent for the New York Times.. Michael Gordon is ✡. Michael Gordon is the son of former news executive Matthew Gordon and Antonia Gordon. . Michael Gordon’s grandmother (Matthew Gordon’s mother), Ida Gordo, was buried at Beth David Cemetery which is a ✡ cemetery.
Andrew Ross Sorkin – Chief M&A Correspondent
Andrew Ross Sorkin is the Chief M&A Correspondent for the New York Times. . Andrew Ross is ✡. Sorkin appeared on United ✡ Appeal (UJA)-Federation of New York’s 2013 list of 40 under 40 top “movers and shakers” in the ✡ community.. With regard to his ✡, Sorkin stated as follows: “I am [✡]! A Christmas loving ✡! We did Chanukah last night and we will again tonight and the night after….”.
Liz Alderman – Chief European Business Correspondent
Liz Alderman is the Chief European Business Correspondent for the New York Times. Liz Alderman is ✡ . The ✡ publication JWeekly has confirmed that Alderman is ✡.
*SECTION 4: NYT Leading Editors*
Jonathan Weisman – Deputy Washington Editor
Jonathan Weisman is the Deputy Washington Editor of the New York Times.. Jonathan Weisman is ✡. Weisman has described himself as a “✡ journalist” and referred to “my ✡ faith.”. Weisman was also highlighted as a ✡ journalist in a report issued by the Anti-Defamation League.
Susan Chira – Assistant Managing Editor
Susan Chira is Assistant Managing Editor of the New York Times. Susan Chira is Jewish. Chira was married to in a ✡ wedding ceremony performed by Rabbi Julie Gordon. The Columbia Student News Outlet, Bwog, has written about Susan’s son doing “Torah reading” as well as both her son and daughter have their Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah, respectively, in Lerner. Chira has often covered ✡ issues throughout her course of employment at the Times. ]
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@chungboislim2061 who owns the media pt 8
Andrew Rosenthal – Op-Ed Columnist
Andrew Rosenthal is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times. Andrew Rosenthal is Jewish. Andrew is the son of ✡ author A.M. Rosenthal, whose funeral was held at Central Synagogue.. Author Harrison Salisbury has further confirmed that Rosenthal is ✡.
Paul Krugman – Op-Ed Columnist
Paul Krugman is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times.. Paul Krugman is ✡ . Krugman has been listed among the "prominent American ✡ economists" in the Encyclopedia of American ✡ History..
Peter Beinart – Op-Ed Columnist
Peter Beinart is an Op-Ed Columnist for the New York Times.. Peter Beinart is ✡. Beinart’s parents were ✡ immigrants from South Africa, according to the ✡ publication Tablet Mag, and Beinart has written about how he remembers “walking back with [his] grandmother one night from synagogue.
Herbert Buchsbaum – Senior Editor
Herbert Buchsbaum is a Senior Editor for the New York Times.. Herbert Buchsbaum is ✡. The obituary for Herbert’s father, Aaron Buchsbaum, requested that donations in Aaron’s name be made to the ✡ Educational Alliance or the Agudath Achim Synagogue, and Aaron was buried in Bonaventure Cemetery which is a ✡ cemetery.
Richard Bernstein – Book Critic
Richard Bernstein is a Book Critic for the New York Times. Richard Bernstein is ✡ . The New York Times has confirmed that Bernstein is ✡..
Eric Asimov – Wine & Food Critic
Eric Asimov is the New York Times’ Wine and Food Critic. Eric Asimov is ✡. Eric Asimov is the nephew of author Isaac Asimov, who along with Eric’s father Stanley Asimov, grew up in an Orthodox ✡ family and a father that was an “Orthodox ✡.”
Jacob Bernstein – Features Writer
Jacob Bernstein is a Features Writer for the New York Times.. Jacob Bernstein is ✡. The Jewish ✡ has confirmed that Bernstein is ✡ and stated that he “attended a ✡ school” when growing up..
Elizabeth Rubin – Contributing Writer
Elizabeth Rubin is a Contributing Writer for the New York Times. Elizabeth Rubin. Elizabeth is the sister of James Rubin, who is ✡ according to TV Newsroom [ and Yahoo Voices. ].
NeJames Bennet is the Lead Editor for the Editorial Page of the New York Times. James Bennet is ✡. Rocky Mountain News has confirmed that James Bennet is the brother of politician Michael Bennet who is also ✡. James and Michael are the sons of Susanne Klejman Wed to D. J. Bennet Jr. The publication US News has likewise confirmed that James’ and Michaels’ mother was Polish-✡. Several publications have likewise confirmed that Michael Bennet is ✡, including ✡ Virtual Library the ✡ publication JWeekly and the Israeli-based newspaper Times of Israel.
.
Maggie Haberman is a White House Correspondent for the New York Times. Maggie Haberman is ✡. The Forward, a ✡ publication, has confirmed that Haberman is ✡ .
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@coryf6460
No. You can be a fan of Charlie Kirks and not a Neocon or a Warhawk or a rino.
But you cant hold both america first and isreal first positions simultaneously, which is why the distaste for him exists
You can agree with some of his points and not all of them. You're don't get to decide what is and isn't conservative. Gate keeping and purity tests are exactly how you will alienate people.
Which is the exact practice kirk himself does when he kicks out fuentes or calls inquiries into Israels wrongdoings as "conspiracy theories" by "alt right trolls"
NR has been remarkably ineffective the last 50 years. They have lost every major ideological war since the 60's. This includes the limp wristed boomers who would rather talk about conservatism in hypothetical and philosophical terms rather than actually being one.
not even sure what you are talking about there, other than traditional boomer conservatism that has conserved nothing for 50 years
That being said, the new conservative moment is brash, unapologetic and has a smash -you-in-your-mouth logical style. This is typified by Milo, Ben, Rush, Crowder, Peterson, Rubin, Owens, Kirk and many others. I don't care for several people on this list but the idea that you have to be for Nick Fuentes or a 90's era country club Republican is bull $%&@.
No, but having liberal positions and disguising yourself as conservative is disingenuous, hence the point. " pro immigration and degeneracy and free shit for isreal" are not conservative points... its the same generic boomer conservatives attitude that has done nothing for the country
@ootmaster1 Also, if you mean that the founders thought that only Western European's could assimilate or should be the majority of the country that is patently false. The founders were pro-nation state. They wanted borders. They wanted limited immigration. They wanted the US to be a light on the hill. They wanted assimilation. That is remarkably different than saying only a certain type of person with the right heritage and lineage can come to the states.
You seem to be misunderstanding the point. the concept of millions of people pouring through porous borders and a massive welfare state were never part of the equation. " free white men of good character" was written literally...
Ethno-nationalism is false because it presupposes that only certain groups can assimilate.
Because that is generally how it plays out
I would concede that people from certain countries have an easier time assimilating than others but the onus is on the CITIZENS not the government to help assimilation.
And when you can just join the communities of other immigrants already existing, why assimilate?
Dinesh D'Souza, Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas and many other don't fit into the defined box of your ethno nationalism but they are remarkably effective voices for conservative thought.
#notall once again missing the point
The correct argument is wanting limited immigration to protect American interests and identity. The idea of assimilation is another matter all together.
The first idea is to undo the immigration act of 1965 and stick to mostly immigrants of European descent, and to remove birthright citizenship to cease anchor babies and an ever growing underclass of minorities
Lastly, ethno nationalism (however you define it) is a LOSING issue. Politically it is suicide.
" Fighting for your own groups best interest is a losing issue"
Wow amazing argument
You're not going to win hearts and minds by alienating vast numbers of the population
Who without the endless immigration, WOULDN'T BE HERE, and you are describing the issue without even realizing it...
How will you win the Mexican vote?
Why do we have to? why does one ethnic group have to bend to the whims of an invading group? its almost like groups self segregate, and diversity is a failed experiment
How will you win the black vote?
Ask the democrats, free shit and empty promises
How will you win the immigrant vote?
Weird how you dont have these issues in a mono cultural mono ethnic area...
It is such a stupid hill to die on in political terms. The real question is how do I get people to assimilate that are here or that are coming here?
Stop pretending that we can all be one big happy family, because its never gonna happen... why cant people like you understand that demographics is destiny, because culture is downstream from the group itself, and politics is downstream from culture.
You replace the people, you replace the culture. when you propagandize an entire country, you astroturf a culture to their own benefit.
Let me ask you this.
Replace 75% of japan with somalia.
Is it still japan? or is it now somalia 2.0?
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@solisprime2669 "So again the idea of skin folk is kin folk is crap."
its not crap bro, its literally how the entire world functions...
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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@R
"you claim that the employer doesn't pay more to the employee because they have to pay for others stuff, such as the apple picking supervisor, growing the trees, training the apple-pickers, marketing, etc... That's true. The problem is, a normal person did not inherit a business from their parents, and not everyone who wants to create a product or business gets a fair opportunity to compete. "
Nothing you have said disproves anything i said. you unironically agreed with me. I feel like you just enjoy listening to yourself talk
"You are supposedly an Ocarina of Time master. How popular is gaming? Everyone would like to be in the gaming industry. Who is competing with Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft for the videogame console market? "
There are many talented people who can create great games, but will never have the resources to develop them or compete against the big companies"
Are you intentionally being stupid? you do realize people have been making independent games for YEARS right? you know, they call it INDIE gaming.... And before that, people made flash games, and standalone executable games. Just because giant AAA titles and massive corporations exist doesnt mean independents dont exist...
"Try it yourself. Go and compete with Nintendo. See how many third party game developers will give you exclusive rights or licenses to their games, when the big companies are paying them millions to make sure no other consoles have access."
If i wanted to make a game, i just make a game and sell it. Pretending the home console market matters in a digital phone and PC age is just a dumb point to even try to make.
If your problem is hardware, well then you want to get into a discussion of how manufacturing has become a nightmare because of government involvement with global groups vying for cash.
"So you can't blame the poor person who ends up being a worker, for having to be at the mercy of a big corporation, if they like videogames or apples."
Its like you dont even think your analogy all the way through. Id make my own game and grow my own apples...
"Does that make sense or are you still living in Hyrule, thinking rupees are found on bushes and trees for people to collect and start a business? That's the unfair part. You did not create your wealth. Admit it. You've been gaming in your parent's mansion for as long as you can remember. Have you ever worked?"
MMmm tasty adhom
"What skills do you have?"
More than you think smart guy
how old are you?
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@eggynack who is switching? you were the one pulling the appeal to authority on specific topics... you may be an "authority" on " economics" but you are a dishonest liar for ignoring the hard truth of the negative impacts on immigration.
you defend it because you benefit
"Immigrant workers increased US GDP by about 1.7 trillion, or 10.7% in 2013. The vast bulk of this gain went to the immigrants themselves. Only 2% went to natives.
For native-born Americans, immigration s major impact is distributional: It lowers the wages of native born workers and raises the income of their employers and other upper income natives who derive disproportionate share of their income from capital gains, stock options and other non-wage income. By increasing the number of workers in the economy, immigration lowers the wages of native born workers. At the same time however native born employers gain from immigration because they can now hire workers at lower wages. Native born consumers also gain , especially the wealthy. Similarly natives who derive most of their income from dividends, capital gains, and other non wage income gain as immigration drives up corporates profits. Immigrations biggest winners then, at least among us natives, are the wealthy, while its biggest losers are disproportionally found among the nations poor and middle class. Clearly immigration exacerbates the economic divide of the have and the have nots. Current levels of over one million legal admissions per year, and defacto amnesty and non enforcement policies that serve to protect those aliens who are here unlawfully are only placing greater economic strain on those citizens who can afford it least. "
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@tonycatman
"Thanks for presenting me with an easy-to-counter false dichotomy."
All you gave me were empty talking points so what is your point?
"Made in China does not mean quality, but there is a massive gulf between "Everything is Garbage" (your claim) to "Means quality"."
Sure, this is true, but it is also true that everything from china is garbage
"Aren't iphones and ipads made in China ?"
Apple products are literal garbage. Overpriced, well marketed garbage
"The quality went up."
A shocking and unbelievable anecdote followed by more of the same
Ryobi make really good quality tools for the price. I have lots, and they never let me down.
Just about every brand of power tools are literal garbage, including name brands like snapon and dewalt. Very few are made quality, and many of those that are are manufactured in japan...
"All from personal experience, and I haven't counted the stuff I'm currently involved in."
Every single thing stamped with MADE IN CHINA in my life, has been literal garbage. from a " technically does its function, but poorly, with poor materials, and wont last long" right to "broken right out of the box, how it was expected to function is beyond me"
".....a quick lookup suggests Kenwood make the best stuff (China); silk (best stuff from China)."
The best electronics come out of japan, full stop. i wouldnt bother with materials from china even silk
"Assuming you are in the US, did you know that in 1999, your government spent $80m of your money on anti-Cuban propaganda ?
i.e. it widely publicised everything wrong with the country, while ignoring everything right about it."
I am aware, what i would like you to make me aware of is what this has to do with the conversation? this isnt a " you are just propagandized with anti china propaganda" problem, this is a " every interaction i have had with china has been negative in my entire long sad life" problem
"was astonished how much better the place was than the picture portrayed."
Yeah and i once saw a documentary about car culture in cuba, where trade restrictions made importation of materials and parts very difficult, so this resulted in an extreme recycling and refurbishment drive, in the sense that nearly everything needed to be reused, so it was very interesting to me as i find throw away and planned obsolescence to be grievous disservice to the environment individual consumer, and the markets as a whole... what does this have to do with anything else i said previously?
"My guess is that the government still has a department paid to find out the worst things about places that don't share its ideology, and probably spends far more money on it now than $80m."
I dont need anyone else to tell me that china sucks, i can see it with my own eyes... " propaganda" isnt an argument when the imported goods are of poor quality, the job loss, gutting of local economies of their manufacturing base, general destruction of the working class, and witnessing a massive shift in power based on the decisions of very few individuals...
"So if it had happened at more places than Foxconn, my guess is that the US would have made it well-known."
Or, a thing that china manages to do well, is lie and deceive
"Doesn't the US have a suicide rate roughly twice as high as that in China ?"
LOL the "chinese published statistics are accurate" game... no that i think the US statistic gathering is really that accurate, i at least have more faith in accuracy than china.
Its clear you are shilling for china because you have a vested interest in china...
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@thehalfricanguy
"those numbers aren’t out of my ass and all verifiable if you research. This is literally my job to review criminal case notes/legal precedent for my employer.
"
Citation needed then
Both were committing crimes at the time. Kyle illegally possessed a gun (based on Illinois and Wisconsin gun laws),
false
violated the Governor’s imposed curfew,
would mean nothing in a self defense case
and was acting in a vigilante manner (legally speaking)
laughably bullshit
Matthew operated without proper security licensing in the city of Denver (Colorado as a state doesn’t require an individual license specifically).
Yeah, and he shot an unarmed man, was in the process of retreating, after the shooter tried to disarm him.... TOTALLY NOT EVEN REMOTLY SIMMILAR WHATSOEVER
Prosecution will try and poke as many
Matthew I think is justified currently based off the preliminary evidence releases and witness testimonies on local media here.
he shot an unarmed man, was in the process of retreating, after the shooter tried to disarm him.....
I’d also shoot someone if they maced me and I had a gun.
thats not self defense, and you would also shoot him after assaulting him, trying to disarm him, and shoot him as he backs away before he even shoots mace at you in the first place? cmon man, who are you trying to convince?
Only because they could take my gun while blinded and shoot me (that’s just my thought on it).
yeah, the guy backing away is totally trying to steal your weapon and not trying to flee a guy who tried to steal his weapon...
I would concede that original opinion.
he shot an unarmed man, was in the process of retreating, after the shooter tried to disarm him.... this is all visible from available footage
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@thehalfricanguy
Bechtel vs State, 2010,
"Appellant was found guilty of first-degree murder of her husband. Appellant was battered on 23 documented occasions which consisted of severe beatings. On the night in question, Appellant’s husband came home intoxicated and commenced beating Appellant’s head into the ground. Appellant’s husband passed out and Appellant grabbed a gun and shot her husband.
Wow this case has nothing to do with either self defense case. on top of that, its not even self defense... the guy was passed out on the ground so he shot him in the face. not saying he didnt deserve it, but it was definitely not self defense
"Or as I said they’ll argue Matthew’s case down from murder to manslaughter using Faulkner V. State and claim “imperfect self-defense” to reduce the severity of the verdict.
" if a person had a good faith belief that deadly force was necessary to repel an attack, but the person's belief was unreasonable, that person would be able to raise imperfect self-defense as a defense to a murder charge."
doesnt seem like a retreating man armed with mace is indicative of any sort of expectation that lethal force is required... good luck with that in court
As I said it’s not black-and-white for either.
Uh, Rittenhouse is pretty clear cut black and white. this current one, i can see being slightly less black and white, but not enough for self defense to hold up to any scrutiny
You have cases like Welzant V. state (1979), where Welzant won a self-defense claim for just snowballs hitting his house and shooting the kid that did it while he was fleeing with a friend.
what an insane case... how that was justified self defense blows my mind...
Both have an uphill battle in court..
I disagree, Rittenhouse's case will be open and shut. this one will be an uphill battle in court.
Depending on the year it could range from 2.1- 3.1% on average of overall murder cases on the national level per our own FBI’s statistics.
so your number is coming from total murders and the number of self defense claims of them confirmed? seems like an absolutely nonsense statistic but ok
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R3d D0t
"you clearly know nothing about marijuana in this state."
And i can say the same for you
"We have thousands of cartel goons who are here illegally and they divert streams to irrigate their crops, and use dangerous pesticides that are illegal for very good reasons- in fact, our fish and game department pursues felony charges against them because of how much damage they cause to the environment, illegal grows have been reduced to a misdemeanor in most cases and that's the only way to really nail them."
Sounds like a multitude of problems that isnt exactly going to be fixed by ending the drug war or anything, sounds more like a immigration issue...
"Though, their stuff is pretty much all for export to the rest of the country- enjoy that pancreatic cancer."
no thanks, i support locally grown stuff
"Indoor grow ops cost too much in overhead to justify illegal indoor grows,"
You have never tried to grow weed in your life...
"outdoor grows in the open are just asking to get busted, so the cartel guys grow in the forest where they have some cover.
"
We can grow our own plants in the backyard
"lol you sound pretty paranoid" Go ahead, smoke all that California weed that gets illegally shipped to your state where it's illegal. I'm sure you and your friends think it's the best weed ever, and any symptoms of exposure to harmful chemicals couldn't possibly have anything to do with poisonous substances added to the weed."
Hey genius , if i live in a state where its illegal, why would i be explaining to you that " illegal" weed is cheaper than " legal weed"
And this weird anti taxation delusion is unhinged.
Taxation is theft
"If someone's retarded enough to drink illegal moonshine loaded with methanol and mercury, just to save a few bucks, there's something seriously wrong with them."
Yeah, or you get some moonshine thats made by someone who can follow instructions. ever try some? i have, was a lemonade. tasted pretty good, little strong, but not terrible.
"Well, aside from the part where they're going blind and other effects of the poisons adulterating their moonshine. Hence why that doesn't really happen anymore.
"
Yeah it sounds like alot of nonsense to me to be honest dude. People make moonshine all the time, they also make other types of booze. they make beer, and they sell it, to other people, without the consent of local or state governing bodies...
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@redrumtm3435
Feeling threatened? Your straw man arguement didn't make a single valid point. I can't just walk into the home you inherited from your father and lay claim to it, yet I could under your flawed way of thinking.
And yet millions of people walk across or fly into the borders of my country, pop a kid out, and voila, they get to stay forever. not sure how thats not an apt comparison
Oh, that's right, you aren't bothered until it effects you.
So this is news to you? being in the self interest of yourself, and your family and community is bad, but unending " sympathy" for the entire world is some kind of moral altruism that makes you feel good about yourself
Ordinary people are suffering all over the world, and all you care about is your own prosperity.
Sooo i should care more about the strangers in the congo, or the entire middle east over my family, my people and my own country? i dont understated your point
You'll soon whine when it's your turn to be replaced - it's already happening to non-white people throughout the Western world, which is why ethnic quotas have been introduced to prevent too many non-whites from developing an anti-mass-immigration sentiment.
What? what is this paragraph even supposed to say? we have quotas to stop mass immigration sentiment? why do we need mass immigration? why are we opining the flood gates to the entire impoverished world? we cant sustain that and you know it.
As always, indigenous Europeans have to suffer so that "diversity'' can flourish; all whilst we see our own diversity disappear. How long is it before blondes, red heads, and blue eyes are non-existent? That isn't diversity, racist.
of course its racist, why cant euros keep the countries they were born into? why do they have to be forced to share with the entire world?
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@Nik-wo7hk
"do you not realize that regardless of US policy, these nations will one day have the most economic power?"
Not only are you wrong, its because you dont have any idea whats going on...
"The only way we have impacted their growth is by importing their shit, which we do because its cheaper.
"
Which is because they have over a billion people and wages suck, because we outsourced all our manufacturing to them. because my government sold us out to foreign nations...
"China and India set their own policies, and because these are poorer nations, they experience higher rates of growth, they will catch up and pass us regardless of what we do."
What? both of those nations growth is entirely because of the US and the rest of the western world selling out theirn own nations to china and india... how do you not know whats going on?
"An easy solution is to increase immigration, but conservatives dont necessarily like immigration for their own reasons."
Not only is this not an easy solution, its not a solution whatsoever. increasing immigration will only benefit china, india , global internationalists, government bodies, and massive corporations .. who loses? the country as a whole, and the vast majority of Americans will lose...
bro what the hell are you on?
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" the only thing thats changed is the last few decades of US policy selling out the country to india and china. without the US propping up both countries, neither one of them would have anything close to the power they have now....."
"Or you infiltrate high levels of government to manufacture bills and legislation that assist your nation? Like china and india have been doing for decades?"
You are clearly saying US policy/US intervention is the cause for their growth. Also like bro US policy and legislation has not caused China/India to grow. You can maybe say US companies outsourced their manufacturing to china/india for cheaper labor costs which helped their growth, but to think this is the only thing causing their growth is ludacris.
You are telling me the largest exporters of manufactured goods isnt the main driver of the growth is ludacris. There are plenty of cases where favorable legislation are made possible with Chinese infiltration. you cant just ignore it
China is an export driven manufacturing economy. They manufacture shit for the world, not just the US.
duh, again, ignoring the national and global policies put in place that made it easy for china to grow into what it is today. it has nothing to do with population numbers
And what, are countries supposed to do, make outsourcing manufacturing illegal?? that is equally ludacris,
So the government selling a nations prosperity away to a foreign nation is fine, but forcing companies to manufacture inside the country they are sold in is crazy? cmon man
US is primarily a service driven economy because we already past the manufacturing stage. If we make outsourcing production illegal, who df is gonna do all the god dam manufacturing for these big ass companies?
The millions of people already in the country? why do we need hundreds of millions more? so we can all be sufferings under the living conditions of the average Chinese factory worker? that sounds like a dystopia to me...
We would need about 8 million more people in the US, considering that their are about 14.4 million outsourced jobs and the current natural rate of unemployment is around 5%. Also all of our huge US companies would go out of business if they manufactured shit here because its so much more expensive to do so.
Wow its almost like manipulating markets and laws allowing countries that dont have those laws or influences can pay workers terrible wages, and then turn around and say its a good thing. Crazy, it sounds like we should never have sent out all our manufacturing to foreign nations, who we are now dependent on, to then get locked in an infinite growth race to the bottom with the only people benefitting being government bureaucrats, internationalist bankers, and multinational corporations. and everyone will then have to live like the average poor chinese or indian. and you cheer this on
Every first-world country outsources most of their manufacturing to cheaper nations you dimwit, its not some conspiracy its just cheaper manufacturing. Even now, China is transitioning of the middle-income trap, basically out of being an export-driven economy.
Wow so years and years of legislation and offshoring isnt some conspiracy, they do it in the open. duh. why craft a self sufficient economy that pays good wages to taxpaying citizens instead of shipping it to some foreign country who provides near slave labor... insane
so yes, in response to your third comment, regardless of US policy, China and India will one day be more economically powerful than the US. The person in the video is just saying hey, a solution is to increase immigration.
How does a race to the bottom sound like a solution to you? why do we need to keep importing more and more people? its an insane plan that views human beings as nothing more than blank slate cogs that can be moved around and forced to live in whatever is deemed the reason, i guess GDP is a good reason right?
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@Nik-wo7hk
Listen man, your saying the US caused Chinas Economic growth, but this is simply false.
(heres a easy link i found describing Chinas Economic growth)
except its not right in the article "
The People's Bank of China, the nation's central bank, tightly controls the yuan to dollar value. It does this to manage the prices of exports to the United States. It wants them to be a little cheaper than those produced in America. It can achieve this because China's cost of living is lower than the developed world. By managing its exchange rate, China can take advantage of this disparity."
So the banks manipulate its currency to be disadvantageous to the US to undercut production, because the US has higher standards of living ( based on laws and regulatory action as well as finance decisions ) so it defacto forces companies to have zero allegiance to the nation that made them, and abandon US made products to chase profits because " offering cheaper goods is a net advantage? for who? just because its cheap doesn't make it good, why do i want to have endless terrible products i need to constantly replace?
"Im providing this because there is almost no person who is educated on this topic saying the US caused Chinas Growth."
"Did US companies assist china's growth by basing their operations there? Absolutely. But thats still just a fraction of the cause."
Yeah and the other factors involved manipulating the currency and state ownership of energy industries...
It seems you have gripes with outsourcing production, but the US only started outsourcing not too long ago.
Its been outsourced for at least 30+ years, so not exactly " not too long ago"
Even now, Chinese companies are outsourcing for cheaper costs to places like Vietnam and Africa. Primarily because they are less of a third-world country now and wages are rising. This is just how it goes, if not for outsourcing, the prices we pay for everyday products would be far higher.
And yet in another article the first paragraph"
"Chinese officials have a new concern: outsourcing. So they’re “encouraging” companies in the southern and eastern parts of China, where wages and other production costs are highest – Guangdong, Jiangsu, Shanghai and Zhejiang, in particular – to move their production facilities inland, where costs are lower, rather than outsourcing to countries such as Vietnam"
So obviously they understand outsourcing isnt so great if they dont want it to happen to them.
In regards to outsourcing, someone smarter than me has this to say about it.
"While this may slow domestic job creation and harm those workers who lose their jobs as a result, producing goods at the lowest possible cost is a boon to consumers, who benefit from lower-priced goods."
And i will reiterate, why do i want cheap garbage goods from a foreign country when i could have had decent quality goods made in my own country, with companies and workers inside the country who benefit from this. not foreign nations and globalist corporation to benefit.
Outsourcing is just the way first-world countries go.
Yes, by destroying the nation that created the giants that now move overseas. great, not we can all have less jobs but have tons of cheap trash to fill landfills that we send back to foreign countries. Glad facilitating global giant profits is priority over having self sustaining nations
A big way China benefitted from the west is by adopting more western principles in regards to the economy. Such as freeing up the economy more and not having the state control production.
Before or after the nationalizing of the energy industry?
So it seems like if the USA forced companies to not produce in China, the effect would be (at its worst, in 2003 when FIE's had the largest share in output) around a 8.9% drop in output in China. Certainly substantial, but wont change anything long-term. If USA did the same thing now, it would only be around 5% drop. Numbers were just calculated looking at USA's number of Employees in China and Chinas total FIE employees, then multiplied by share in output.
How is having jobs and manufacturing inside the country going to be a bad thing? how is having goods made by the people that buy them bad?
I will say this again, China will be larger than the US, regardless of our policy.
it already is larger. what does that have to do with anything? I dont care about china, i care about my country. If you like china so much you can go live there for a bit and ride that "economic growth" all you want.
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@Nik-wo7hk
hey man, companies need to offer competitive prices, if our domestic companies were forced to produce in the US, then our domestic consumers would find foreign brands cheaper. Therefore, our huge domestic companies which bring loads of cash to the US would suffer. For example, iPhones would be double the price.
I literally dont care about massively overpriced throwaway electronics made in a foreign country with long history of terrible treatment of factory workers. Oh no, your $1200 iphone is now worth $2400 so the $600 repair bill is reasonable instead of throwing it away and buying a new one.
Also nationalizing an industry doesnt mean China has not made progress in freeing the economy. Even the USA nationalizes stuff like they did with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In the 1940s the USA nationalized basically the whole Railroad and Coal industry. Does this mean our economy wasnt free? Nope.
So bailouts are nationalization? i thought it was just socialism for the rich while the poor suffer?
Also, even companies in the USA shifted operations to cheaper parts of the country. But over time wages rise again and these companies then go overseas.
Yes, but they are at least in the country, still made by the people in the country, benefiting the people in the country, not an entire nation worlds apart and massive global financial giants soaking up profits...
The same Forbes article says this
"All this is true. But it probably can’t stop Chinese outsourcing altogether, not in the long run.... They will, in effect, demand the products they want at the lowest possible price, even if means making those products in Bangladesh, Botswana, Brazil, Ethiopia, the Philippines or Vietnam."
Right, so they sell out their own country for cheap garbage and GDP, got it.
Its very good to buy from companies that produce in the USA if you can spare the extra cash, but most consumers wont. You may dislike the cheap products and would prefer more expensive USA-made products, but clearly other consumers disagrees with you, evidenced by consumers preferring the cheaper products. If this wasn't true then US companies would have stayed in the US.
We didnt ask to sell out the nation for cheap garbage. they did it anyway and the excuse was cheap crap.
"How is having jobs and manufacturing inside the country going to be a bad thing? how is having goods made by the people that buy them bad?"
I dont see how this relates to what I said about US prohibiting outsourcing and how it would have a small effect on Chinas output.
Because either we continue outsourcing to lower costs, or import millions of people to inflate the GPD. the latter being the point of the video
Also, if one random company decides to produce in the US, they will have to charger higher prices. Consumers will opt for the cheaper product and the US company will earn less profits or go out of business. This isnt true for EVERY company, but it is typically true for companies that have the option to outsource. So its not necessarily bad as it brings jobs to the US, but companies will not want to do it, and the consumers typically dont care.
And why dont they care? might it be cost? might gutting huge chunks of the economy and having unrepentant immigration since the late 60's has a detrimental effect on the labor market and income... maybe stop breaking the system so they can financially benefit from it and we dont have these issues here.
"it already is larger. what does that have to do with anything? I dont care about china, i care about my country. If you like china so much you can go live there for a bit and ride that "economic growth" all you want."
Frankly this was only brought up because you said "without the US propping up both countries, neither one of them would have anything close to the power they have now.....". and "massive populations arent going to help us compete with china. Having a government that isn't selling us out to china is how we compete with china.......". I think I made it clear that US policy will have next to no effect on China's long term growth.
"I think I made it clear that US policy will have next to no effect on China's long term growth.
"
No you have not. even the articles you posted said the US was a large contributor.
Also, its no coincidence that China and India, the countries with the largest populations will also be the largest economies in the future.
Yeah its almost like less than first world living conditions combined with over a billion people can produce products at very low cost at the detriment to the average person living in said countries. Its also no coincidence that us immigration and visa policies lead to india blowing up by taking over the tech industry ( badly i might add)
There is clearly a correlation between population and the size of the economy. If your in a developed nation, it seems that the larger the population, the larger the economy. This is crystal clear if you look at current populations and largest economies by 2030. They aren't already the largest because it takes time for countries to develop economically and build wealth.
Nations arent numbers, GDP isnt god, and the economy is meaningless when it destroys nations and treats humans as identical replaceable cogs in a global beast that only benefits a select few... sorry not a fan of this line of thinking
So clearly, given everything I said, I don't see why people are hating on this dude.
Because he is a guy whos never had to do any real work in his life, has only ever lived in LA and NY, and thinks adding 700 million people to the country is a good idea...
It seems reasonable that if the US wants to stay competitive, we would increase immigration. We don't want China in charge.
What does it mean to " stay competitive" when china manipulates currency, has zero regard for IP laws, and has lax standards and terrible working conditions. if thats what it means to " stay competitive" im out. I dont want to live like im in china or india. apparently people like you and matt here seem to like this idea. maybe go live there instead
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@Nik-wo7hk
"It seems like you do not know how nations increase wealth"
Yeah i do, but i dont seem to care because i fail to see how destroying a nation is worth monetary gain
"Yes, the people in China and India live poorly. But so did the people in America during the industrial revolution and before the 1950s. Soon, the people in China and India will be living like us. So, producing products at a low cost is not a detriment to the people, clearly
"
Say this to all the dead manufacturing towns, say this to the endless low skill workers who lose jobs.
"By manufacturing these cheap products, China and India are slowly increasing GDP and utilizing their massive populations to produce an extreme amount of low-price goods. They are basically the USA 80 years ago but on steroids."
No, not even close, but keep thinking its the same thing.
"If we slowly increase immigration, then we won't be like China or India. Letting in 700 million people in one year would just result in huge unemployment. But increasing our population gradually maybe over 20 years will result in higher living standards in the long run. "
We will absolutely become like china and India, where do you think those millions of people will come from? mostly china and india. In the long run massive immigration has lead to lower standards across the board, but if you change how you measure success, its fine...
" But also read more about economics if you can before having very strong opinions on topics rooted in economics and without knowing much about it.
"
And maybe you should learn more about history, geopolitics, and how groups of people operate
but have fun with your degree, ill stick with living in the real world, working with things and seeing how the real world works instead of viewing the world like a spreadsheet and people are just numbers... sorry it doesnt sound like a great way to run the world, and im not for it
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@ruckerrc6982
"Again you argument is with the leaders the majority of whites are electing to represent them, blaming minorities for the actions of those leaders is ineffective at best."
i mean we can A. look at voting data for decades that illustrate a clear difference in voting, and B we can assume the people of the US have zero control over their governing bodies for decades...
"Whites have been around for a long time so I don't think they are going anywhere"
Uh huh, yeah, so why are they projected to be minorities everywhere they exist in a few decades time? constant anti white hatred is now a mainstay of public discourse, entertainment, and anything pro anything even remotely white is demonize
"This is more about power and controlling their fate as a people"
Leads to the question of Who is making these decisions and who is in charge? certainty not whites
"Minorities are doing what they are suppose to be doing living life."
No, they are swarming into white nations and transforming them from majority white to minority white by the mere fact of existing in the same land space.....
"If whites chose not to have babies, chase money, or have wars where millions of their people die against each other like in WW2, How is it the fault of the 3rd worlders if they keep having babies and don't kill each other in world wars?"
white ARE having babies, the problem is everyone else is having exponentially MORE than whites... but that would mean you would have to grasp the concept im trying to articulate, which you are clearly not... who was behind both world wars? who was behind the mass migration of third worlders into white nations? no one asked for this, so why do we now have to act like third worlders in our own lands? breeding with zero consequences because the sate takes care of it? cmon dude
"Also I agree that a group or race starts a culture but they don't get to keep it to themselves."
So in proving my point you also fail to grasp it. you change the people you change the culture, there is no exceptions...
"Race and culture are not the same thing. A Chinese guy can be raised as an American in American culture his entire life. If you dropped him into China what would you have. An American in China."
this is laughably naive and assumes assimilation... but clearly you dont get that when the majority of the country is no longer white...
"I don't make the rules but history is quite clear that culture mix, grow and change overtime. That can't be stopped it is the way of the world."
This literally has ZERO to do with my point... if you CHANGE THE POEPLE YOU CHANGE THE CULTURE.... stop pretending that any of this is fcking normal dude
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Martyr4JesusTheChrist yeah, bandwagon, sure, say that all you want while an entire industry suffers from imported labor from on average substandard educations, and often times fraudulent diplomas, certificates and education. mix that with an entire industry built upon the facilitation of this importation, and its becomes clear there serious problems here... pretend that im wrong all you want, but i spent 30-40 hours a week for years with a mostly indian company, so feel free to ignore my anecdotes, but when you are working with a company that has its fingers in every other hospital industry, bank/financial institution,retail chain etc etc, nearly entirely staffed by Indians, you can start to see a serious problem... but i digress,
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@albertmooney2628
"weird how we can give trillions to corporations and the military"
First off, you dont even know what you are talking about. the military budget is about 700 billion a year, we spend more than 3 times that on welfare, social programs, and education...
and second, no one voted to give these people "trillions" of dollars
"but not domestic policies that actually help people."
we spend PLENTY of money on those. the problem is the solution isnt money...
"you also dont want to take the time to reform those problems."
Cool, find ways to combat welfare fraud, find ways to unfck teachers unions, find ways to stop letting government control ruin the education curriculum.. None of those solutions is more money but actually solving a problem...
"when has congress ever accomplished anything useful?"
When they give corporations billions of dollars, offshore manufacturing, and invite millions of people in to destroy the labor market, while artificially dumbing down future Americans with the public education system they do alot of useful things, just not for the people they are supposed to work for... just themselves and their financial backers.
"most americans support universal healthcare, free college, higher minimum wage"
yes, when asked, people LOVE free stuff
"1 in 5 people in prison are incarcerated for nonviolent drug crimes."
Yeah im sure it was JUST a non violent drug crime, and repeated offences were totally taken into account, or relation to previous violent felonies
"decriminalizing/legalizing drugs is free and would reduce police/prison costs."
Wont hear me debating how terrible the " war on drugs" has been... its about as wonderful as " the war on poverty"
"sure because if people live in poor neighborhoods thats obviously where they want to be and arent just stuck there,"
Yeah this happens all across teh country, and there are far more poor whites than the other way around. and please feel free to pretend in group preference doesnt happen and people dont like to be around people similar to them.. except everyone wants to live near white people, thast why everywhere they are they are becoming a minority
"pull yourself up by the bootstraps is not a valid argument."
"everything is racism" isnt a fcking valid argument either but you keep using it
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@albertmooney2628
"the pentagon has been audited twice and it has failed twice"
Yes, because the people in charge are the ones who are the crooks, of course leaving them to investigate themselves is farcical...
"we have trillions in debt because we have been at war since WWII."
Eh pretty sure we have poured just as many billions in foreign aid as the MIC. in addition to being less than what "we" give " domestic" corporations stateside, again we arent in control of the government or the banking institutions...
"the difference is we should spend trillions on healthcare, education, welfare and social programs."
We already do,
Medicare 1.1 trillion,
SS, unemployment and labor 1.3 trillion Education 89 billion
military 640 billion
2,480 billion
vs
military 640 billion
not to mention the billions we give away in foreign aid
but creating a prosperous nation is more complicated than cutting spending and telling everyone to get a job.
Hard to create a prosperous nation when your government has allied with internationalists to implement a global economy and ship all your manufacturing jobs over seas, ship your call centers over seas, ship your claims departments overseas, all the while importing millions and millions if immigrants, AND importing endless numbers of visas to import more labor into a country that you just gutted for jobs! amazing
No one asked for any of this, but the solution isnt more money
"the trillion dollar infrastructure plan would create millions of jobs and repair our crumbling infrastructure. to make money you have to spend money. "
Look, thats in theory true, and im not against infrastructure spending, but its going to go into pockets to lobbyists, politicians, and the work crews who are in league with them, it will be over time over budget and under quality.
absolutely get money out of politics. end lobbying and repeal citizens united. dont hear many republicans advocating for that.
and you wont hear them decrying AIPAC for similar reasons...
"banning offshoring of jobs would take more government intervention not less"
How do you figure? the reasons they leave is mostly because of reductions of tariffs and the myth of free trade in a world where countries dont all have the same rules and environmental regulations..
"do not use immigrants as a scapegoat for your countries failed policies"
It isnt a scapegoat, immigrants are being used as pawns to cause economic disruption in a nation, dont play dumb.
"free* stuff seems to work for europe"
Yeah maybe it h as something to do with the US doing all the international spending on defense, as well as UN funding, or maybe has something to do with medical advancements, and the fact that other countries can have cheap generic drugs, or that even the European healthcare systems still have huge massive problems, but because " its free" it does better at polling. Nor does any of this even touch on the issues that the US government has caused to the healthcare industry, did you know that healthcare used to be really cheap in the US? then the government " fixed" it
"dont like free stuff? get rid of police, firefighters, medicare/medicaid, roads, public schools, etc. seems to be a whole lot of socialism in america already, would more be all that bad?"
Its almost like some social programs and spending is needed, but free everything for everyone is excessive and not fiscally possible...
whites are becoming a minority, aka, there goes the neighborhood."
Yeah its crazy imagine what the entire world will look like if its only indians africians and chinese its going to be ruthless
everything in america is racist. everything in america has racist origins. america was built on racism.
Maybe thats because EVERY nation is built on " racism"
or are you gonna argue that other peoples didnt do the exact things " Americans" did and worse throughout history...
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@albertmooney2628
"and yet the military budget goes up every year while we cut domestic spending."
Uhh EVERY bit of spending goes up regardless of whatever cuts are made...
The citizens are not in control of their governments
"if people didnt vote against their own self interests we would have representatives who, you know, represent us. we could be on the same level as all other western nations."
This is laughable on the face value that you think voting matters... if it mattered they wouldnt let us do it. Are you honestly going to pretend that any nations population is truly in control of theri government?
"Billions in foreign aid is pennies compared to the weapons of war budget."
Its literally not, mostly because alot of that foreign aid goes through the MIC
again the citizens are not in control of their governments
"We have so much military equipment we are giving it to our police."
Id rather they just hold civilian auctions for this stuff instead of using federal funds to play kickbacks with stuff all over corrupt governments and departments all over..
again, the citizens are not in control of their governments
" 'foreign aid' is different than humanitarian aid. selling weapons to isreal and saudi arabia shouldnt count as 'aid'."
Oy vey cant criticize our greatest ally, thats antisemetic (AICIP didnt like that)
"healthcare in america costs so much because we have a capitalistic society."
Has literally NOTHING to do with teh problem and illustrates how little you grasp the level of destruction uncontrollable governments caused..
"global trade is essential and beneficial to all nations"
Sure, but not when it negatively affects some countries over others...
"however it is not the US government shipping jobs overseas, it is 'american' businesses looking to save a buck"
weird how the same class of people who run the government and the same class who run the " americian" businesses that go overs sears are all the same group of people. funny that, its almost like lobbying, and regulatory and licensing commissions are detrimental to the job market... its almost like governments create barriers of entry so no one else gets into the big club.
"weird how we allow american businesses to ship jobs overseas and evade taxes but still consider them "american businesses"
weird how the same class of people who run the government and the same class who run the " americian" businesses that go overs sears are all the same group of people. funny that, its almost like lobbying, and regulatory and licensing commissions are detrimental to the job market... its almost like governments create barriers of entry so no one else gets into the big club.
"we can force american companies to pay minimum wage, not use child labor, and follow safety/sanitation requirements but we cant force them to not outsource labor? "
of course not, because the same group of people YOU complain about are the same ones you think are going to fix it.....
"companies send jobs overseas to get around things like minimum wage. regulation is the only way we prevent jobs from being offshored."
Yeah that worked out so well for the last 40 years didnt it...
"the only other way we compete with the global labor market is to deregulate our workforce. think of all the jobs we could bring back if only we could treat american workers like they do in china"
Or, we stop buying terrible goods, and stop letting the governmetn decide what swhat. THEY caused this very problem. Now china is outsourcing their own garbage.
If the governments job was to protect americian jobs, they sure havent been doing a very good job with it.
"immigrants are not the reason your country sucks."
Its almost as if you can have more than one issue at a time
"if the government cant provide a comfortable life for people it is not the 'those peoples' fault."
wtf does this even mean?
"so stop spending so much on military and prioritize things like healthcare and education"
jesus christ its like you dont listen when spoken to... the reason its so expense in the US is directly caused by government involvement.
the PEOPLE are not in control of their governments... pretending throwing more money at a problem is going to fix it without addressing the core problem is a waste of time money and resources ...
"healthcare costs in european countries are a fraction of what it costs in america because they regulate what healthcare companies and insurance can/cant do."
The US government does the same thing... its not the regulation its the government. pretending that European healthcare is so amazing is avoiding the funding, staffing, and quality problems i has, while also ignoring the fact that much of medical research and discoveries for decades have been from US medicine. not to mention most of those countries dont have to spend much of anything internationally...
"it is still far better than the american system."
is that why the americian journal of medicine lists teh top 10 medical tourism couontries and not a single one of them is european?(Top 10 Destinations for
medical Tourism
Costa Rica
India
Malaysia
Mexico
Singapore
South Korea
Taiwan
Thailand
Turkey
United States
"but because medicare/medicaid isnt for everyone we have to waste time and money figuring out who qualifies. whats the point of having a government program if you cant keep people out of it."
This is the same governmetn who cant tell you how many illegals are inside teh country, or where 20 trillion dollars went in sept of 2001. this is the same government you want to have more control over our daily lives
americans have over one trillion dollars of medical debt and student loan debt. think how beneficial to the economy it would be if people werent burdened with debt.
Think of how beneficial it would be if government didnt destroy currency by enslaving us all into debt slavery or destroy the cheap medical industry the US USED to have... Nack when lodge practices were a thing, you could pay for years health coverage (without the need for government, or insurance agencies) for a days wages...then the government fixes it
" just seems like you want to keep america and 'white' countries as pure* as possible."
Sure, unless you dont think white people deserve to exist in the lands they built, and instead ascribe to a " global citizen" level of understanding and think that anyone can move anywhere, and everything will be dandy
"all countries have history of racism and discrimination but america prides itself on its racist past."
No it doesnt and thats just dishonest
"we celebrate the individual/peoples who overcame oppression but never really look into that oppression. why are there statues of robert e lee and not hitler? germany is ashamed of its past america is not."
Why do statues of lenin and marx exist? like, theres a statue of lenen in seattle, and germany puts up a Marx statue like nothing happened... they are just as oppressive... the fact that you think " having statues" = " celebrating oppression" then i cant help you and ive wasted my time
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@s0ulshot
"Capitalism is when you own a property, and socialism is when the government owns it"
Lol nah bro.
Capitalism is private ownership of the means of production for profit,
So this means private property exists
and socialism is workers collectively owning means of production.
This means private property does not exist
It is workplace democracy, and getting paid the real amount of profit you generate instead it going to some CEO or into investors pockets.
Its almost like you have never encountered a small business or worked in management.
Socialism Hasn't failed, but the USA has been for as long as it has seen it as a threat destroyed countries, and governments trying to implement socialist ideals in their society.
We have more socialism in the US than we have had for a hundred years but people like you still call it capitalism
They didn't get Cuba or Vietnam, though.
Cuba even has more doctors, and experts on infectious diseases, because they had/have 30000 doctors overseas helping other countries, and getting knowledge from doing first hand work.
So what does this have to do with anything? are we going to talk about the degree programs in both countries? the regulation and government intervention into the process? or are we just gonna go " capitalism bad socialism good"
You know why Cuba is poor? Because of the US trade embargo.
Yeah thats it, just blame the US because nothing bad ever happens unless teh US is to blame
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@InternetLaser
"it´s not your country, it´s the country you live in and already share with many others. You don´t own it."
Yes, it is my country, my family has been here for over 150 years, so its mine and the people i share it with own it. not the entire world. And its not owned by a small handful of globalists who think they can regulate the world.....
When Terrorists have nobody to terrorize, communists have nobody to rule over, cartels have nobody to extort, and slavers have nobody to kidnap, they simply cannot keep operating. Terrorist organizations fall apart, regimes fall, cartels disband, etc.
You cant honestly think this is how it works. They continue to terrorise because there still millions more people you smoothbrain. we will never be able to import enough people to do what you suggest will happen.
plus, the evidence, at least with regards to immigration from latin america, is that the remittances that immigrants to the US send back ends up stimulating the US economy and the economy of the country they´re sent back to. This free trade really benefits everybody.
How is money that is removed from US circulation a benefit to the country? " free trade" what a joke
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@InternetLaser
"you realize money is worthless, right? If a dollar leaves the United States, we've lost a green piece of cotton. Actually not even that, because chances are it was just an electronic transfer. Point is that money is of no value."
Then why come to my country, work to get said money, then take it and leave if there was no value. problem is there IS value, and its value created by my country, and is syphoned off and sent to another country where its worth more. Do you have any idea how exchange rates work?
But then when that money that gets sent out of the country is spent on an American made product, it creates demand in america, and thus American jobs. And it makes life slightly less miserable in some Latin American country.
No, it doesnt really, how is money leaving the us ( not being used for wages, food, services, to pay back debts or to save, or taxed at all) a good thing??? you cant just say " it makes us better" and just assume thats how itll work out.
It doesn't require that many people to leave an oppressive system for it to collapse. The soviet union lost a few tens of thousands of people through the iron curtain and collapsed.
Yeah im sure multiple world powers had nothing to do with the soviet union, jfc
Global terrorism, drug empires, communist regimes, and slave owning warlords have a lot of costs and actually run on pretty thin margins, making the system very delicate.
LOL its rally not dude, they have zero value on anything they do, so therefore its much more valuable.
Granted, China is larger and stronger than the USSR, and trying to tackle China and terrorism and Latin American drug violence and lack of opportunity in africa through immigration to the United States is a bit more involved, but could probably be done with just 50 million immigrants to the US.
No, it wont, because weve taken that many before, and it has solved nothing but move us closer to a world wide problem where we are all living in terrible living standards
There's tons of Midwestern cities that are struggling because they don't have enough people and do they're going broke and raising taxes trying to pay for their infrastructure. Put these immigrants there and then the native residents benefit from lower taxes, the US benefits by revitalizing our industrial heartland.
you arent " revitalizing" anything, you are literally replacing American towns with foreign towns and you seem to think this is a positive solution.... no its not and stop pretending its a good idea to pump millions of foreigners into another country without the natives consent.
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@InternetLaser
"United States vastly benefits from our immigration and remittance relationships with Latin America. All of the economic evidence indicates this. That's final."
No it doesnt and you cant just tell me it does. you dont know what you are talking about.
It's an a priori good to fill this country to the brim with foreigners whether the native people want it or not and that's final.
what? you should have the ability to destroy a nation by destroying its people via immigration? no thanks you sick minded person
Idc what racist "great replacement" narrative you subscribe to, but it's not true and nobody but you really gives a shit about the racial makeup of the country.
Not only are you wrong, its been underway since 1965. you can pretend its not real, but the evidence of it happening for 50 years is quite apparent.
You just want an ethnostate but you're too much of a bitch to say it.
The united states is a white nation made by for and made up of whites. since the inception of the nation, its been 95% white until 1965. " free white men of good character" Im not telling you its an ethnostate, the ones who made it say that.
And no, we've never taken 50 million immigrants all at once to the United States.
We take a million plus immigrants a year, this doesnt count refugees, illegals, or visa holders. again you have no idea what you are talking bout.
It's taken decades for us to accumulate our immigrant population of just under 50 million. I want 10 million immigrants per year, equivalent to the rate of immigration we saw in the early 20th century.
Cool i want them to all live in your town and live ontop of you so you know what it feels like
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Look, the only evidence of collusion was anything substantial was the dossier, which i have spoken about before being unverified, im sure if any of the information was verifiable we would know after a year of investigation....
You say that the memo was put out to discredit the trump russia ties... what if i told you that that was the truth and that there are scattered in these corrupt as fuck agencies are true patriots, like the one who leaked the DNC emails.....
You do know Hillary is objectively and factually more corrupt that trump is right?
the REAL russian collusion was the Uranium one scandal, but that gets buried in the press for obvious reasons.
What i am trying to tell you is that there was no collusion with russia...
if you want to go after what you now call election meddling, peddling tweets and fake news, then nearly every NGO was doing the same thing, most people in the political sphere were doing similar things.
after a year of investigation all they have for it is 13 indictments for Russians who were basically running a bot farm to post shit on twitter and facebook, both for and against trump. as far as i know, bot posting isnt a crime.
I hate to say it, but the nunes memo has nothing do do with why most people have no trust in the government or any of its alphabet agencies...
Nothing should be secret considering most of it is funded with our tax dollars, we should be able to see everything.
Let me ask you simply... What is it that you think trump and russia did? because after a year there has been nothing
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@iumasz6088
"I am not talking about breed names, i am talking about using race to treat people differently."
Who said treating people differently based on race? the whole point is that if you treat people differently based on outcome, you will find racial dividing lines in them.
"You are saying that because people of race A are smarter, on average than race B we should only pick people of race A, well what if some who doesn't align with that average come in Someone from race B who just so happens to be smarter than everyone else?"
Exceptions prove the rule and whatnot... You yourself stated that we should only take the smart ones...
"by the standard you established you would still refuse that extremely smart race B person."
Yes, unicorns exist and by excluding people on the basis of ethnic origin would disallow a few smart people from dumb countries to move... Generally i feel like absorbing the smart people of certain groups ruins it for the rest of the group and leads to a downward spiral in those countries due to brain drain. You only have two options, let everyone in, and ruin the host nation, or absorb all the ones capable of improving the immigrant nations. both are net negatives, and only benefit global multinationals
"there is nothing meritocratic about this sort of treatment, it just uses averages to justify absolute rules that are actually arbitrary."
And setting every other nation on earth into a stagnating pool is just as terrible an outcome...
"just like, The woke"
Not even close
"Yes this this sort of rejection of nuance and simplification of averages to absolute rules is done by them as well, in concepts like white privilege
" white privilege" is just the end result of genetic speciation leading some groups to be better than other groups. The point of " white privilege" and other lefty woke nonsense, is to demonize and psychologically harm whites in their own countries to further the globalist plans of ethnic replacement of Europeans.
"They take the simple fact that whites are on average more successful than others and twist this fact into a flawed statement that all white people are privileged despite there being examples that spit in the fact of this simplification"
Its deliberate. This is the end result of " meritocracy" some groups are better than others and it shows
lets see if the facts align.
They align with me, and the bell curve
"this source over here states that an extra year of schooling can increase IQ by small but noticeable amount. Remember this is ONE YEAR of schooling, imagine how much getting an education does"
Wow, almost like nothing you have said has thus far disagreed with anything i said. you can improve a small and noticeable amount, but again, you arent getting a 68IQ somalian to be on par with the average 100IQ European tis just NOT gonna happen, you arent getting 32 IQ points arbitrarily through school....
"Extra year in class raises IQ, study finds"
"1-5 points"
"Study Shows Education Boosts IQ"
based on the same study, again, 1-5 points... isnt 32 points
"Also if IQ was based on biology then why is it increasing by 10s of points in one generation? is evolution that fast? in one generation? or an other factor in play here?
data also shows that the Americas and Europe have increased IQ from 1910 to the 2000s by 22-32 points, once again can evolution be that quick to change IQs so considerably in a 100 years?"
Again, you arent making an argument against my point... IQ is genetic, there is zero dispute there. " 10s of points in one generation"
no, that isnt happening. and since the 2000s the average IQ in the US has started to drop.... probably from both massive importation of lower IQ populations combined with an intentionally bad school system...
"now if we subtract that from the current average of 100 we get around 68-78 IQ which is the IQ average currently of Africa"
No, this is not how anything works
"And what happened between 1910 and 2010 in Europe and Americas?
Lots, the eradication of good schooling, mass importation of foreigners, mass exodus of jobs and manufacturing, and global marxism growing every day since the 60s... what point are you trying to make?>
"oh yeah, massive economic growth and massive strides in technology which both improved living and working conditions and most importantly education which increased IQ further more.
Yeah so when are these things going to happen ion somalia? when is somalia going to have economic growth? the tech is already invented, they dont even have to create anything, just copy what others have done? why is it still a dump? could it be that the people are different?
"If we managed to get from a 68 average European IQ to a 100 european average IQ "
Where are you getting "europeans has 68 iq" from? because thats not a thing
"Then what is too say in 100 years the Somalian IQ of 68 won't become 100?"
Because you are not grasping the concept
"I mean in two generations, 40 years it increased by 12 points"
Where is th is happening? no dada i hav ever seen suggests this? you are talking aout of yourt ass
"there is nothing to suggest that it won't stop growing or that it is the biology that decides IQ"
Then why are somalians still 68 avg IQ? they have had over 100 years since the europeans had whatever you call it happening to them that magically got them from legally mentally disabled to average intelligence ....
"The source i got this from is called:
"The Flynn Effect: IQ gains over time""
Great, so why are they not getting better? if all the samrt ones leave, how is the rest supposed to become more intelligent?
"racial groups also have socioeconomic"
Done, not going to bother with muh socioeconomic garbage... Its wrong, and doesnt explain teh outcomes.
"differences between then such as income, education and family life. just like the differences between other countries."
and yet these things being accounted for, there is still racial disparity....
"yeah but words not being in googles dictionary or things like isnt and isn't arent the same as sentences not making coherent sense."
have you really called me a foreigner because i haven't included the ' in isn't?
No, YOU complained about the red lines under words when i complained to you, that was the isnt isn't. i gave you a separate example of poor sentence structure and you ignored it in this reply. The structure is written by someone with ESL, adn in my experience this has always been indians
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@iumasz6088
you've said false to me saying we shouldn't treat people based on race, or was this something else?
Meaning that " treating on a case by case basis" lends to patterns emerging (racial disparities) By judging on teh merits of teh individual, group differences still occur
"so why not take in the smart ones even if they are not part of the on average smarter race?"
Brain drain mostly, and it is entirely not needed
"As i've said nothing meritocratic about this you are denying a more able person in favour of a less able person. if a philosophy ends up with someone less able being in a position and a more able person being rejected. Then it is NOT merticratic as it spits in the face of its purpose"
What? " denying more able for a less abled person" wtf are you talking about? you bring up merit based immigration, and i state its a brain drain, and isnt needed, yet you keep harping on it like we NEED to take in the whole world for some bizarre reasoning that is never explained..
"" white privilege" is just the end result of genetic speciation leading some groups to be better than other groups."
wait so your saying you're different from the woke, then why are you agreeing with them?
If this is what you are getting from what i said, you are both not grasping what the " woke" think, and not grasping what im explaining to you...
"thats why i am showing you facts that disprove your theories"
except you are failing to do so
"1-5 points"
OK I already answered this, listen Carefully
ONE
YEAR
EXTRA
ONE YEAR, an person spend their time in education in the west for around 14-20 years, this may not be the case but if one year of education yeilds an increase two IQ per year that means if a person recieves a basic primary and secondary education they get 28 extra IQ, even with this low estimate you got a person jumping from 68 to 98, just slightly below average.
This is lunacy... where are all the 160 190 IQ europeans if you can just arbitrarily gain IQ from schooling... Shoot, you should see college grads in the 200+ category regularly but you dont....we dont see them because what i said is true, and intelligence is a sliding scale based on your genetics, and you can never be raised above that, only move in the range allowed by the biological makeup of your brain...
"based on the same study, again, 1-5 points... isnt 32 points"
I was talking about the other study
No, i googled what you quoted, and both articles reference the exact same study... maybe learn to read what you post before posting it? IDK what to tell you
Have you actually read the study i've shown? you here it is again:
"The Flynn Effect: IQ gains over time"
Look dude,
i read the wiki page, and in it they studioed different periods of time and found increases and decreases in iq. this isnt saying what you think it does
what point are you trying to make?>
That the last 60 years have been a concerted effort to dumb down western nations, flood them with poor less intelligent groups of people, and create disorder to raign in with power, and that this has lead to a decrease in overall IQ for the country
"i think both of us can agree that somalia is not doing very good right now?"
No no, answer teh question dude. it is the focal point here... the a nswer is genetics are the reason they are the way they are...
"The Flynn Effect: IQ gains over time"
Yeah no, where are the 68IQ europeans dude? " google the flynn effect" isnt an answer.
"they literally are? from 1960 to the 2000s Average african IQs have increase by 12 points?"
Nice statistics bro, totally legit
"and you've got a point that migration would cause brain drain but according to your position they won't become smarter anyway right? thats literally what you are arguing for"
No, see you clearly arent grasping what im telling you so you. If you scoop out all the smart ones, teh rest will regress to teh mean. IE if you remove the 75 IQ pepole, leaving them no opportunity to produce offspring, will be replaced by those of lower IQ, thereby decreasing the overall group, and stagnating the group... You seem to think its fine i guess because you keep arguing that people should be allowed to enter my country even though there is no need for it...
"no you are wrong i am right, and i won't say why"
Because i have had endless arguments with people citing " socioeconomic issues" as why certain groups are failing. its a cop out. Studies that control foe " socioeconomic" factors STILL show differences in outcomes and im tired of making teh argument when the person im arguing with doesnt care
"anyway would a child who grows up in a fatherless home be more likely to be less successful than a child that grown up in a actual family?"
Its almost like there are multiple variables that are taken into account, and you just want to ignore the ONE that is tied to biology? Why are some groups so averse to raising their children?
"they're not?"
They are
"average incomes are worse, education levels are different and some groups tend to have more broken families that others"
Yeah its almost like some groups are different and claiming that everything other than teh group themselves is to blame is a " woke " position...
"And now you calling me disabled? excuse me?"
LOL when did i call you disabled? haha
"Indians make mistakes because they have a completely different language and they find it a bit difficult to get used to the grammar in the English language"
Sure, but then why are they imported by the thousands, staff 90% of all " phone tech support jobs" and run the tech industry if they are so terrible at english? Why are we giving them visas and high paying jobs if they cant speak the language?
"I can't imagine you won't make mistakes when you try to learn a new language
Yeah i cant imagine getting a faux tech degree, getting lined up with a cushy job, not bother to master the language of the country i benefit from, and when leave i go right back to my home country with all the extracted wealth and live much better than the natives of the country i worked in.... yeah no, zero sympathy or relatability there...
"seriosly read the source i've gave you. I am getting an impression you aren't listening to what i've said and you're rushing
Buddy, you gave me quotes to google... the study you are talking about is only one study, and was the source of both things you told me to look up other than the flynn effect,. and i went to the flynn effect wiki page for that... you arent making the argument you think you are...
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@iumasz6088
"Man youtube is out for blood, i've got to start changing keywords now"
Get used to it. it will only get worse as time goes on.
"There are differences but the data suggest that it isn't due to R and biology"
No, it really doesnt.
"If it was to do with R, and so to do with biology then why have we seen a drastic increase in IQ in only around 100 years"
Because certian groups of people developed the world around them very quickly. Thus changing the environment. You keep acting like environmental effects are different from race, but they are infact directly linked...
"Evolution does not work that fast"
What? why not? what do you mean it doesnt work that fast? have you ever looked into studies breeding foxes? You can see noticible differences in about half a dozen generations later
"which suggests that biology and so R aren't the factor and instead general human development is"
Uh, thats still environments having an effect on people over time, which still is racial, considering how that works
"Data suggests that average European IQ was more similar at one point to current A continent IQ
average current european IQ (100) - average IQ increase in europe since 1910 = 78"
Yeah no that sentence is horrid to try to read...
"during this time Europe seen unprecedented economical growth which caused a rise in living conditions and the quality of education. say what you want about modern education but it is generally better and more accessible than it was back in 1910"
Also, even this doesnt suggest what you are suggesting. if anything, education standards have fallen so far that im sure any further IQ testing is going to see it plateau.
"infact the rate of increase of IQ in is almost identical as to the rate of increase in Europe"
????
"and Africa is still in a developing state just like Europe was at one point, what is there to suggest that they won't follow the same trend that happened in Europe?"
so why did europe blossom and africa didnt change at all? you realize that they have also had decades to " advance"
and have stagnated...
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@iumasz6088
"so environment causes the differences but it does so by changing the biology?"
Yes, this is how it works in nature with every living thing on the planet. why you seem to think it wouldnt have the same effect on humans is beyond me.
"first of all that is selective breeding, artificial, it is significantly faster than random natural evolution as certain traits are artificially favoured"
So what? that example was just to illustrate demonstrable changes in a short time...
"secondly have those foxes started to behave any differently based on their genetic make up?"
Yes, they literally took wild foxes, bred the ones with positive temperaments to humans, and within less than a dozen generations they were almost domesticated. So to assume drastic noticeable changes cant happen on a short term scale you would be wrong.
"it is a lot easier to trigger a change in small physical areas like pigment and hair growth than it is to change the complex system of neurons."
What does that have to do with anything?
"is it not a true statement though?"
Probably not, but i cant say for sure because i cant tell what you are trying to say... hence the ESL comment earlier
"Also, even this doesnt suggest what you are suggesting. if anything, education standards have fallen so far that im sure any further IQ testing is going to see it plateau. "
"are you really saying education was better in the 1910s?"
No, but i would say that before 1910 most people were illiterate. My point in comparison to todays education is that education standards peaked decades ago and are now in freefall.... there are highschool graduates who " graduate" being barely literate in the US... clearly education has some issues..
"africa is growing, it is the second fastest growing economy in the world"
Im not watching a video, but im sure it doesnt say anything about the massive influx of chinese investment into africa, or the decades and decades of aid and help its gotten from the rest of the world, and we are supposed to pretend that NOW after all this time that they make some improvement, and you want me to accept that that were all the same... no
also, lets not pretend that africa did any of this itself, and south Africa is a hell on earth for whites
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@iumasz6088
"so what? because such an example is not applicable to humans, who aren't being selectively a certain way."
Bullsht. you cant just say that with zero supporting evidence or arguments. The entire point was to show drastic changes in short generational periods.
"ah yes this experiment, I've heard of it, though we've got to remember a few details about it before we come into conclusions:
first of all they started to show dog-like tame behavior in about 6-10 generations"
And so what? this illustrates drastic changes in a short time frame. If you want to pretend there are no selection criteria for human society today id argue you are mistaken
"The time frame human IQ increased from 1910 to 2000, is around 4-6 generations and in some like Asia IQ rose almost by 30 in one or two generations.
secondly keep in mind that this is selective breeding where only the ones with the desired characteristics can breed, in human population many different characteristics have a near equal chance of being inherited"
Yes, and you have those same selection pressures in human society. Sort of what social engineering is
"there may be some truth to this but i am not sure that it is that fast to explain the IQ increase entirely
It isnt. ITs illustrating how changes in environment can change IQ. it doesnt say were all the same and have the same potential.
"your theory now doesn't seem to be invalid but it does seem like education must have played an important role in this IQ increase as i don't think evolution could explain this alone."
It isnt. ITs illustrating how changes in environment can change IQ. it doesnt say were all the same and have the same potential.
"its got to do with a lot because our whole argument here is about biological changes in human though which are linked to the complex system of neurons called out nervous system.
And you are telling me you can just arbitrarily raise intelligence over 30 points just by going to school? no, not that much. IQ is not static, it is fluid, and changes constantly over time.
"Well this statement was about calculating European IQ in 1910, if there was an increase of 22 since 1910 and now it is a 100 this means that back in 1910 it was 78
100 - 22 = 78"
Right because thats how this works..
"since when would you say this started to happen? because from 1910 to like 1960 education would have improved and accessibility is a big factor in this
Well i would probably point to the turning point being after WW2, then everything changed as WW2 was the Foundational Myth. Around then the propaganda in schools really started to take off. and now we have essentially the beginnings of weimar germany in the US and most of europe
How do you recognize a foundation myth? It fulfills three functions.
1)It explains the origin and structure of the world (and society).
2)It defines ultimate good and evil (and from those definitions are derived the values that are used to justify the holding of power).
3)It determines what is held sacred in that society.
"For modern Westerners the story of WWII has become their foundation myth. It fulfills all three functions"
1) We live in the ‘Post-War World’. The lines on the map, the institutions, the sense of what era we live in, all arise from the starting point of WWII.
2) Ultimate evil is Notsees. Ultimate good is opposing Notsees. The values derived from these definitions are anti-racism, equality, diversity, anti-nationalism and so on.
3) The only thing that is held sacred, that cannot be denied or mocked in the contemporary West, is the Hall of cost
"that doesn't really reflect on the quality of education and just reflects on our falling standards which caused degrees to become almost worthless"
And in what magical universe is that not a reflection of the quality of education? LOL
also i am talking about Europe as my main example as the graph puts both Americas into one
If you are talking about the " our world in data" its an awful site and terrible to get information from
"i was meant to show you a article called by the same name"
I googled, and there was no article, only a video of a guy presumably reading what the article would have said...
"Investment is investment, I mean why is china so rich now? because from investment and outsourcing to china from the west"
Yeah the globalist machine both sends all the manufacturing jjbs overseas, while importing workerd to destroy the nation.. wow how wonderful. im SO glad china is now doing the same thing to africa...
"also Africa has been improving back then as well"
LOL also your source is garbage
"they suffer from corrupt governments, foreign aid doesn't really work, as it is often siphoned by corrupt governments for themselves
BS, the PEOPLE are the problem... never in my life have i encountered people who would light a man on fire inside a tire and beat him as he burns to
death, or kill bald people because theres gold in their heads, or that fcking babies cures aids... no, clearly there is a difference in peoples..
"what is happening in south Africa while horrible, isn't to do with our discussion about Africa's economy"
BS its not! The problems in SA are because of the rest of africa being africians..... you have no idea what you are talking about
"Also why have you not mentioned those studies and examples where other factors where accounted for?"
What exactly are you referring to?
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@iumasz6088
"sorry but how are selective pressures as powerful in humans as they have been in the example of foxes? do you know how selective breeding works right? you only take a small amount of foxes that have the best characteristics and only allow *them" to breed. In human society however even the weak can survive and can pass on their genes, their genes aren't completely eliminated from the gene-pool unlike in the selective breeding of Foxes.
So what you are saying is social engineers dont know what they are talking about? or social pressures from cooperate environments, education media propaganda, and government mandates dont have selective pressures on breeding? SO when you tell women to have children later, and to focus on careers, that doesnt have an effect on who breeds and when? Subsidizing poor families and giving financial benefits to single mothers isnt selecting who breeds more than others? You underestimate the power of artificial selection im humans
"Because of this selective breeding is faster than natural evolution. think about the diversity and amount of different domesticated animal breeds. such stark differences between members of the same species won't happen naturally. because it didn't happen naturally."
Because wild animals have less diversity and speciation? cmon now thats just silly
"Think about it. if one year of education raises IQ by about 1-5 points then what increase would getting a education do in the first place."
Yeah so that means you would have unlimited IQ and able to increase it forever? no, thats not how this works. You have fluid intelligence, changes from time to time, between a max and min, determined mostly by genetics
"say what you want about modern day wokeness, the nazis, their ideology and what they did where despicable. so they are right about that
Its like you cant grasp the problem.... the notsees were just a reaction to the same problems we are having now with teh same groups. making them the ultimate evil and basing all of post war history on said event is a poisoned origin tree and nothing good can ever come of it. Its almost like propaganda is a thing and maybe ww2 was lied about by the " winners"
" we fought the wrong enemy"
"If a school decreases their standards what the students are being taught and how they are taught stays the same, the only thing that changes is how able they've got to be to graduate which cause those who wouldn't graduate before to graduate. but the quality of what they is taught stays the same."
You have no idea what you are talking about. This makes no sense..... If they lower standards, you arent getting the same quality of education. stop being foolish and think
"explain how. why is it not valid? Also why are you only saying this now, i have been talking about this source and referencing it for the longest time"
First, because there is no useful information on the sight, just broad generalizations, and graphs.
Second, there is no mention of any intelligence vs ethnicity anywhere on the site, assuming they just didnt include it because it doesnt fit in with the rest of the site...
Third, i say this now only because i now know what you were referring to, as when i googled when you told me to i ended up with the source study...
"its got a description below the video>
No it didnt
"Also china isn't outsourcing jobs at their own detrement."
????
"infact how does Africa lose in this apart from being dependent on china?"
Because they will forever be linked to a nation that hates them and exploits them, while making them in debt like they have done to the US... this will make africa more chinese and less African
"china is rich because western industry was outsourced there, and now they are outsourcing their industry to Africa, Africa gets the jobs, not china. unless i've misunderstood your point."
Yeah clearly... you also missed what the chinese are actually doing in africa by a mile...
"same thing explain how"
See above
"you're telling me the Europeans weren't the same at one point? have you heard of some of the things that happened in the medieval times? some of the cures for the plague, superstitions, witchcraft? never heard of them?"
never in my life have i EVER read ANYTHING about euros that were as bad as the things africans are currently now doing to each other.
Also spoiler, didnt you JUST tell me that " evolution doesnt happen that quick" and that peoples shouldnt be able to change that quickly?
WHy did euros change so quickly but some other groups just cant seem to do so with even a head start?
"we are not talking about problems in south africa. we are taking about economy. Not social-political events"
So white hatred and discrimination on a massive scale isnt related because its a " socio-political" event? BS and you are a wanker for even suggesting it. Who do you think does all the farming? who do you think keeps south africa running? do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Pretending that it has nothing to do with africas economy is disingenuous at best
you said before:
Im not wasting my time sending you links that will just be deleted. If you have watched anything from carls sargon channel hes touched on it before. so have many other people at this point.
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@iumasz6088
"it does put selective pressure on them but not as extreme and specific as the Fox experiment"
Stop saying that just because they arent EXACTLY similar to the fox experiment that my point is somehow not valid. because it most definitely is..
"such a thing hasn't happened in the case of human"
It doesnt need to... the point was confirming large changes in small time periods. which is possible. stop nitpicking and avoiding the fact that i am right on this point that yes, noticeable changes can occur over short periods of time
"How many different breeds of canines and felines where there before humans started to selectively breed them? And how many are there now?"
Seems like a terrible point.. how man breeds of bird are there? did humans selectively breed birds too? what about how many different types of bears? did humans selectively breed them too? what about beetles? flies? bees? I would argue there is more diversity naturally occurring in nature than is created by human intervention
"no? once a person is educated they are educated"
No, thats not how " education" works
"there is a point where more time in school and education won't improve IQ because they have already learned all of the thinking skills they could have and have gotten a grasp at them."
ok? so why do some groups fail and others dont? why is there a disparity? Would this not imply a natural limit to intelligence? Does this not prove my fluid intelligence point?
"they are as much of a reaction to the same problem as much as the communists where a reaction to poor working conditions. They identified a problem, but propose bad solutions."
Europa the last battle... watch a history documentary they dont teach in school. You seem to have the cause and effect mixed up.
Group in power creates terrible conditions in the nation, then they push communistic thought into the public, ferment it, foster it, and wait for it to grow into a beast on its own. Then they fund any opposition, to create conflict. then when everything is at its lowest point, they can consolidate more power... Pretending the nazis and the commies are the same evil is entirely missing the point and reeks of propaganda post WW2
"not interested in tyrannical ideological snake oil. Does it involve me giving up my civil liberties? well that's the Deal breaker."
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about
"just because it has broad generalisaiton and graphs doesn't mean its useful? The graphs are supposed to mean something you know? they are graphical representation of physical numerical data. broad generalisations? thats the point, it is supposed to break down the data by continent."
Except that its useless data. Nothing on those graphs is helpful if you dont have any of the information there to use it with. its just some numbers on a graph.
"whether it is done by ethnicity or not doesn't matter"
because thats teh entire point im trying to talk about and there is no information on it... you know the US isnt mostly european right? so you could understand how using the numbers from teh entire country would be pretty suelss for any soert of discussion right?
"I think we can agree Europe is majority European and Africa is overwhelmingly majority African"
and you would be dead wrong and this was my point earlier Africa can stay African, but any European country must become divers or they are racist... You know what one of the most popular boys name in UK is now? fcking mohhamad
doesnt sound very European now does it?
"my rationalization was that the Chinese probably have enough jobs available to spare"
AHh yes, because we can trust anything out of china to be accurate. im sure they would never lie about things that would harm its national image
"but my main point was about it not being bad economically for africa"
yes, its bad economically for africa, but you cat seem to figure out why
"apart from that they do at least benefit economically, which was my point, economy"
JFC im so sick of economy economy economy... you understand a nation is more than a shopping mall right? you can grasp the idea that the almighty dollar and " the economy" arent the most precious things to consider when trying to grasp the world right? you understand that right?
"I am talking about in terms pure economical growth nothing else"
disgusting way to see the world and approach problems, and is pretty much why you arent getting what im trying to say top you
"never in my life have i EVER read ANYTHING about euros that were as bad as the things africans are currently now doing to each other."
"never heard of medieval torture methods? or medieval cures for the plague? you're missing out. look up hanging drawing and quartering, it is an punishment for treason. its pretty vile."
Yeah buddy, none of that holds a candle to the sht i see on liveleak and best gore coming out of these places... keep pretending that they are comparable until you see it for real... you have no idea what you are talking about, and it really shows here...
"around the 15th century. during the 15th century Europe started to engage in international trade"
And africa had not begun to do anything remotely close technologically...why are they different?
"Europe could do this trade because it was easy to facilitate boat transport, they have nice shallow shores and beaches where it is easy to launch and build ships from, Africa's shores often are more steep and the sea becomes deeper very quickly."
Absolute horse sht
example Cape town. africians had never bothered to even settle there, and until the dutch showed up, nothing was there. euros show up in Africa, and build a functioning civilization in less time than it takes to domesticate foxes, and you still say that?
"Also due to africa having lots of jungles, deserts and Savannahs, Not the best terrain to grow enough food to sustain large metropolitan populations which could start such trade and begin economical growth."
Again, BS. Why when european man comes along and suddenly its possible to farm ? unless some peoples are less developed than others... hmmmm i wonder...
"So white hatred and discrimination on a massive scale isnt related because its a " socio-political" event? BS and you are a wanker for even suggesting it. Who do you think does all the farming? who do you think keeps south africa running? do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Pretending that it has nothing to do with africas economy is disingenuous at best"
"I didn't want to go to deep into south africa as most of that shitshow is social-political"
LOL yeah because that means it has no effect on the economy for some reason
"I've though you would talk about the general treatment of whites there, which is mostly social-political"
Ahh yes, whites being deleted in their sleep for being white is " socio political issues" cmon dude
"But you are right. The treatment of the farmers and replacing them with incompetent people will harm the economy"
The fact that you care more about the economy of africa than the lives of white south africians is very telling to me.....
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@iumasz6088
"well I am telling you why it is not applicable because while noticeable changes can happen in a short period of time but humans don't fit the criteria for such a small change to happen in such a time. the selective pressures aren't extreme enough"
This is straight up BS with zero backing dude. cmon
"no. that's my point it took a long time for them to diversify naturally, dogs and cats diversified quickly due to selective breeding."
And the point i made about all the other divers animals that had very little contact with humans? totally dumps all over your point...
"because they haven't been educated"
eyeroll
"what is the conditions of schools in Africa? how many are in schools and for how long"
Again, what point does this make if they have had decades longer than euros do do anything? why is it that euros had to jump down and start educating afrtica? are they incapable of doing it themselves? We didnt have a massive education system, and euros still travelled the world... what is africas excuse?
"you are now going to tell me how wonderful the Nazi regime was? all this is going to do is likely discredit your other points."
Yeah or you could NOT put words in my mouth... but go off dude, you clearly think you know what you are talking about despite demonstrating that you clearly do not...
"Graphs are information? what do you want? for them to be spelled out in paper? you haven't said anything about the source maybe being misleading or taking things out of context. no just graphs are bad.???"
Buddy, its like you pick certain words i say, fixate on them, and ignore the rest... There is no sourcing, there is no supporting information, the page just states things, draws a line on a graph and you call that good?
"first of all i am using Europe as the example here, because it is more European and america, and considering Europe (as a whole) is still 95% European it is still appropriate to use it"
First off, you are wrong, and you are being replaced in the very country you claim is mostly European. "95%" bullsht. most popular name in the UK is muhhamad. that isnt a Europe name, you are full of sht. Europeans are set to be minorities everywhere they are majorities by 2050. stop pretending this isnt a dire issue that needs to be addressed...
"what kind of difference are the non-European populations that are almost exclusive to the western countries?"
The whole point is " europeans" are being drivin into minority status in their very own countries, and pointing this out is met with endless BS about fairness and economy...
"well they do lie, maybe they do that at their determent, maybe don't, but the focus in on about the effect it has on Africa, not china."
dude, cmon... you cant keep pretending this is good for africa...
"how so? jobs are coming in, money is coming in, it is a debt trap and a acknowledge that but in terms of pure economy it benefits them."
No, it doesnt. because Africans arent doing anything for africians, the chinese are basically doing what europeans did for decades, but this time its ok, because its not the whuite man? you REALLY think the chinese are letting africa benefit from any of this? then you clearly dont know how chinese treats non chinese let along hoe they treat eachother... again, youve never seen liveleak out of china.
"money isn't everything but"
What good is it to a nation in the pursuit of money, if it destroys the nation itself?
"well you're the one who wanted to talk about Africa stagnating"
africa stagnating has been a trend for africa for hundreds of years, and that is unironically my point..
"you never implied in which way though, so i started with economy? want to talk about Africa stagnating in other ways go ahead"
africa stagnated because of africains... this has been my point the whole time.
"alright, give some examples of brutality in africa and i will show examples of brutality on a equal level that happened in europe at one point. once again have you looked up being hanged, drawn and quartered?"
Yes, have you ever watched people machete someone apart? ever see someone stuff them in a tire, light them on fire, and beat them with sticks as the whole crowd watches? scalping bald people because they think theres gold in there? what about graping infants for STD cures? You are out of your depth. also, spoiler, africa is STILL DOING THESE THINGS REGULARLY... comparing them to what euros have done decades passed is disingenuous
"sorry not sure what you mean, what do you mean by this?"
WTF do you mean what do i mean? africians never made boats or facilitated in intercontinental trade, and you tell me its because the shores were bad and cape town is a prime example of why thats BS
"how is it, trade is important, hell have you noticed how Europe took off they minute they started trading and colonizing?"
So what you are saying, is some other group came to trade with europe from far away and helped them push forward? or euros did it themselves, and you are giving africa an excuse for reasons unknown to mw. the fact that they had yet to do many of the things most other peoples have done in the bronze age really drives home my point. you can pretend its lack of education, but that didnt stop the chinese or europeans from having massive empires hundreds of years before current day africa...
"they nether bothered to because to reach that spot you would have had to cross through deserts and mountains, seriously go on google maps and look around the area in cape town, to give perspective"
Again, BS, the entire east coast is a mass of green on google maps. you keep giving them excuses for lack of advancement for some reason...
"And of course they built a civilization because they brought everything with them. they didn't come there with nothing."
Yeah its crazy its almost like some groups of people advanced faster than others...
"in some areas like grasslands there was farming, but i am talking about areas where you can't do that, jungles, deserts and savannas, you can't grow shit there, an in those areas societies could progress, until Europeans came along and using their technology could change the environment like for example cutting down the jungle to create farm land."
See this is more excuses and baseless garbage. FFS most of european countries freeze for almost 6 months a year, you are just making excuses...
"even in areas where farming is possible, farming communities would be isolated because of how rough the terrain is, and also because they don't have things like horses"
they didnt have horses so that explains zero advancment as a species for hundreds of years
stop making excuses... africa is connected by land to places with horses. there have been horses in africa. you keep making lame excuses for africans not advancing like every other group on the planet
"Emphasis on MOST, the treatment of white farms and the laying of of competent white folks would effect the economy, but most of the other shits surrounding it won't
again, BS, you have zero idea whats going on there, and your au tistic focus on economy is making you incapable of objective views of other world. you only see the world through finance, banking and industry...
it is, social = because it do with how people interact and behave - political = because it is done and masterminded by politicians and political forces to enact a political agenda.
Yes, i dont grasp your need to not talk about anything other than economy for some strange reason... also you give too much credit to politicians
"you're the one that wanted to talk about the stagnation of Africa so i talk about stagnation in Africa"
No, you only talk of " the economy" in africa, you wont talk about ANYTHING else
"since you never specified that it is economical or moral stagnation, i went with the economical stagnation"
im illustrating its genetic stagnation. you keep making excuses for a people who have had longer to advance, than all other groups on the planet. you keep making excuses that they are uneducated while pretending that the other groups didnt educate themselves. you are sitting there telling me africa needs to be walked up the stairs of advancement, while no other group has needed to do this, and you cant see what im talking about because " economy"
"just because I initially didn't know how it can be tied to economy and so to the alleged stagnation in Africa, doesn't mean i don't care about what is happening"
No it means you have very little critical thinking skills and rely on what other poeple tell you to paint the picture of the world
"also you don't need to post links for those studies, just write their headings"
Im not wasting my time when you can easily look into it yourself, and the very youtuber we are commenting under has several videos on the exact topic that you can scroll youtube and start your own research. im not spoon feeding you. im just telling you to stop making excuses for peoples failings
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@iumasz6088 "my backing is that you don't see animals evolve that quickly in the wild, and that the selective pressures are not that extreme"
None of that actually matters to the point im making. Also, hundreds and hundreds of years, and every other group went through drastic " extreme" changes, except some didnt. My conclusion is related to genetics
"are dumb humans being eliminated from the gene pool completely? answer this question yes or now?"
No, they arent, they usually breed more than smarter ones, but i fail to see why this is relevant
"What you need to look for is a example of an animals evolving as quickly without human intervention and artificial selective pressures, all of those animals took thousands to tens of thousands of years to evolve or more, not in less than 100 years"
And yet the example of humans themselves undergoing such drastic changes in multiple human populations across the globe over a few hundreds years? I mean thats the point im making here.
"this can be explained by the justification on why Europe raced ahead while others where slowly developing"
Um no that doesnt explain anything..... You know it wasnt just europeans who travelled the world right?
"well you are implying that the belief that the nazis where the true evil and that the hella (of) cost did happen where negetive and maybe even wrong, though if i have misread you then i apologise for that, if that is not what you think"
Well this sentence tells me when i spoke of the "foundation myth" I had apparently not had any context to illustrate its point.
"The problem is that all three functions are backwards or negative.
Instead of the origin event being one of fertility and new life, it was a conflagration of death and destruction.
Instead of ultimate good taking the central position in the story that slot is occupied by ultimate evil. Everyone knows that A.H, the personification of evil, holds the centre point of the WWII story.
Instead of that which is held sacred being something mysterious and sublime it (the H) is an obscenity.
Having a negative foundation myth means the tree of life for Westerners is poisoned."
"they literally cite citations from other sources in the website, at the bottom of the page and the bottom of the graphs? do you even see it?"
The citations are all for ONE study "Pietschnig, Jakob, and Martin Voracek. “One Century of Global IQ Gains: A Formal Meta-Analysis of the Flynn Effect (1909-2010)."
And the rest of the citations are also based off of this one. and i cant read it. the link doesnt send me to where i can actually read any of the information. Just sticking a link on the bottom of a page isnt exactly helpful if its stuck behind a paywall...
" europe as a whole, everything east of the oder river is nearly 100% white. Poland, almost completely white, Hungary , almost completely white, Romania , almost completely white, Finland , almost completely white, European Russia? , almost completely white. I ain't talking just about the west"
Im talking globally. you listed poland (96.7) romania (93) finland (~98) and hungary (~89)
what about France? barred from actually taking ethnic demographic data( apparently lots of euro countries dont count this information for some reason), estimates 85% in 2010, and estimates of 60% today
Denmark is closing in on 80
germany is down to 90
britian 2016 is down to almost 80
sweden? " A 2018 study concluded that in Sweden by "2065, the share of the native population is [set] to decrease to 49%, the Western population is projected to fall to 63%"
And the united states is the worst. 90% to less than 65% in less than 60 years, and projected to be lower in another decade And thats not even getting into the migrant crisis and the mass illegal immigration... CLEARLY there is a problem
also Muhammad isnt a european name dude
"It ain't and its gonna backfire eventually"
So wtf are you supporting it for?
"but in terms of economy it will atleast benefit them in that way, which is my point"
your point is terrible.
"No, it doesnt. because Africans arent doing anything for africians, the chinese are basically doing what europeans did for decades, but this time its ok, because its not the whuite man? you REALLY think the chinese are letting africa benefit from any of this? then you clearly dont know how chinese treats non chinese let along hoe they treat eachother... again, youve never seen liveleak out of china. "
"sorry, if it doesn't have any benefit whatsoever to African countries then why are they agreeing? they are selling their countries out, yes but they are going to get something out of it at least"
really? like, really? the politicians and rich of the nation sell out their fellow countrymen for profiut and you sit there and " but its goodf for muh economy"
"Are you actually listening to what i am saying? or are you just deliberately misinterpreting my point?"
No dude, your point is terrible, and " its good for the economy" isnt exactly a selling point for selling out your nation to foreigners
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@iumasz6088
"machated someone apart?"
Yes, they tie someone up, and turn them into a lego man with fully detachable limbs with a machete, while they are alive.
Once again, the process of hanging drawing and quartering"
Yeah, no, again, comparing teh above to hanging isnt even close. drawn and quartertd? i mean im sure you could find better medievil turtore devices. also, africians do this today as opposed to google telling me the last time somwo was drawn and queated was in 1782, and im pretty sure the videos ive seen were from the last 15 years or so
"burning people on stakes, often witches and heretics, they where also witnessed by crowds"
Again, google tells me the last to be burned for heracy was 1612, and its a little different than burning somoene in a tire while a crowd chases adn beats them...
"not sure if i can find a similar example"
pretty sure you cant, or at the very least they would be examples from 300+ years ago
but during the (H) people where killed due to guilt by association"
mm yea sure everything you learned about WW2 is totally legit and was never propagandized by " winners"
they had any gold or silver teeth removed"
es, removing visible precious metals is totally simmilar to bald person superstitions... i know its not really a good example but there was really no point in even comparing it
"they did cut their hair so it could be used for production"
LOL yeah and they made soap and lampshades too right? cmon man
what about graping infants for STD cures" once again i can't find one that is too similar but you had the catholic church doing what they do to young small boys excused by some religous reasons.
lso have you ever heard of the blood eagle?
m going to assume you knoew what i ment by " graping". also "There is debate about whether the blood eagle was historically practiced, or whether it was a literary device invented by the authors who transcribed the sagas" comparing the two is a stretch of a stretch adn im actually offended by you comparing something that may or may not have been an execution method from 1020, to something africians do in the current day...
My point is, just like what europeans have done in the past, they can move on from that, Africa is still an underdeveloped, uneducated, often lawless place."
And MY point THIS WHOLE TIME is WHY are they STILL like that? Euros changed in just a few hundred years, much like most of the world, but SOME groups just didnt. soem groups, even with ENDLESS HELP FOR LITERAL DECADES, cannot sustain a functioning civilization... You keep making excuses. Maybe, JUST maybe, its THE POEPLE who are the problem NOT the location or the time.
they've made boats, but no where near the scale of europeans"
why not, they have had plenty of time, and more than tolerable environments.
"cape town to get where the south African population was, you had to cross desert and mountains"
Cmon dude, its clearly not impassible, and most of europe is full of mountians, just from looking at topographical google
"So what you are saying, is some other group came to trade with europe from far away and helped them push forward? or euros did it themselves, and you are giving africa an excuse for reasons unknown to mw. the fact that they had yet to do many of the things most other peoples have done in the bronze age really drives home my point. you can pretend its lack of education, but that didnt stop the chinese or europeans from having massive empires hundreds of years before current day africa... "
"education didn't stop them then, environment did"
????
"China and both Europe for example both have nice fertile terrain covering most of their civilizations, Africa only had a select few areas and other differences like those select few areas being isolated by hard to traverse terrain like deserts"
Garbage bllsht excuses again dude. half of the continent is green, so im going to assume they can farm, also, reminder, most of europe freezes
"well Europeans could farm, the Africans living in jungles and deserts couldn't no matter what time of year it was."
Excuses..
"but also the only places that receive substantial contact with other places in the world are west and east Africa"
Ok, so why arent they progressing like anyone else?
"yes, not having a reliable quick way to travel does have a big impact especially in the context of spreading ideas and technology"
"Google, what transportation animals can be used in africa"
"Horses, donkeys, camels and cattle have been used for riding and pack transport in parts of sub-Saharan Africa for centuries, if not millennia"
So it sounds like more excuses
"I know about the white farmers but if you have any thing else to add to this then go ahead"
Rampant discrimination of whites in most of south africa, brutal attacks that im sure you wouldnt like to see... (graped, cut, lit on fire, drilled into with power tools etc)
"I can see the world through multiple facets, i just wanted to look at the apparent stagnation in terms of economy first as it is easy to find out quantitative data about it than more anecdotal examples, which may not be that appropriate to use in the assessment of development of a whole continent."
"economy" isnt a multifaceted view of anyting. secondly, " look at the apparent stagnation in terms of economy"? not gonna get you a very useful picture
"im illustrating its genetic stagnation."
you keep making excuses for a people who have had longer to advance, than all other groups on the planet. you keep making excuses that they are uneducated while pretending that the other groups didnt educate themselves. you are sitting there telling me africa needs to be walked up the stairs of advancement, while no other group has needed to do this, and you cant see what im talking about because " economy""
"I have shown you evidence that shows that Africa is growing in terms of economy thats my evidence to refute your claim that they aren't or they need help, foreign aid alone can't do that,especially as a lot of that gets siphoned by corrupt governments."
You have given me nothing that would refute what i said about the problems stemming from genetics and iq. You state that because there is improvement, what i say isnt true. but on the contrary, the fact that they are taking hundreds of years longer to progress alludes to MY point as everything you keep bringing up about reason for africas stagnation are also true in most populations
"how does that have to do with me "rely[ing] on what other poeple tell [me] to paint the picture of the world"?
Mostly because you rely on other peoples information to construct your worldview. Garbage data in garbage data out.
"so wait, you are demanding me to back up my claims yet you yourself refuse to do so? hmm."
No not really, you gave me a source, and im telling you it wasnt a very good one, i explained why. Do you know why its hard for me to deal with " sources" is because its getting harder and harder to find relevant information through search engines. i can spend hours and hours searching for specific studies because google will push a narrative. I even went to the pastebins i found hosting pages of study links, but its been There are studies comparing b and w children raised in opposite homes, twin studies, rich v poor in racial context etc. There isnt " one " source, its years of reading into topics and using said information to help paint the worldview i have. i know " using others to shape your worldview" but in the case of " our world in data" you just looked at that and took it at face value. Im not even getting into the topic of massive fraud and corruption at the highest levels of academia.
"even then could you at least give a a direction or a clue where too look?"
IDK i struggle to even find sources i used only a few years ago. Looking up anything truthful is getting hard and harder to do by the day
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@iumasz6088
because my argument is that genetics factors, while existent, are very minor and are mostly environmental
You realize, that my point is that environment ( geographic or otherwise) leads to genetic changes means that you are trying to argue against a point im not making, or you are making my point without realizing it
"it does matter because it shows that evolution happens a lot more slowly that you think it does, seriously give an example of an animal changing behavior in 2 to 6 generations that is done naturally."
Why do i have to do that? that has nothing to do with my point. You think the factors being used / that effect in human populations are strictly natural? because thats what it sounds like, and that would be wrong
"this is relevant because you are trying to use a example where they use selective breeding, a process which entails removing the individuals who don't have the desired charactersitics (extreme selective pressure) and compare it to humans where this doesn't happen (significantly less selective pressure)"
What are you talking about? there is TONS of selective pressures in human populations. Pretty sure i even talked about them. Secondly the example i used was only used to illustrate drastic changes can and do occur. i never stated that they were strictly natural.
"And yet the example of humans themselves undergoing such drastic changes in multiple human populations across the globe over a few hundreds years? I mean thats the point im making here."
"yeah and my point is to show you that it cannot be genetic because genetic features can't change so quickly."
What are you talking about " genetic features cant change so quickly" i just illustrated it can. Euros did it, the chinese did it, we talked about this. Its like you arent following anything in this conversation
"The citations are all for ONE study "Pietschnig, Jakob, and Martin Voracek. “One Century of Global IQ Gains: A Formal Meta-Analysis of the Flynn Effect (1909-2010)."
And the rest of the citations are also based off of this one. and i cant read it. the link doesnt send me to where i can actually read any of the information. Just sticking a link on the bottom of a page isnt exactly helpful if its stuck behind a paywall...
"
"it being behind a paywall is unfortunate, but why would you want to discard this information completely?"
Because it means i cant even look at the data at all... its basically useless as a source
"it is about the apparent Flynn effect, which there is more about and shows IQ increases in every continent, there doesn't seem to be a reason to believe this is misleading or missed out something."
Ugh, there were studies in the flynn effect that suggest that its not always constant and not always increasing. they talk about it in the first paragraph of the wikipedia page
"European demographics you used ethnic nationals not racial demographics"
Sure, mostly because its hard to get that data in most of those countries. furthermore you have YET to address " muhhamad" being the most popular boys name in the UK... thats not a european name
"I never said i support it or think it is a good idea by the way"
Yes, yes you did, you did so on the basis of " good for the economy" i dont know why you think that isnt "support" or "a good idea"
"for centuries, horses where only used in the recent few centuries because then they bred horses that where immune to the disease
anyway back to the genetic factors"
Uhh sure
>debunks you claim with google search
>moves goalpost
"I can understand that, but even then could you remember to details of some of them or did you forget?
the " details" were illustrating that even controlling for socioeconomic factors, there are still differences on racial/ethic lines.
also because of my curiosity i decided to put into goggle
"studies showing differences in intelligence in ethnic groups accounted for environmental factors"
I found an archive ink that ill post if i can get it to stay up, im not gonna go through the list because most will need to be archive searched anyway
"are you saying the information is wrong?"
Im saying its functionally useless because there is nothing i can look into. its paywalled and vauge
combine that with the fact that they are supporting the UN sustainable agenda garbage just points me to assume ill intent
"i am aware such topics are taboo but if they where why are these studies being made?"
This sentence doesnt make sense
"genetic mutations are more likely to be negative, as the nervous system is incredibly complex and random changes are more likely to be detrimental especially as thousands of genes can all influence one facet of intelligence. and since down grades would be quickly select away this means changes in intelligence are slow"
How does this in any way counter my points?
"why would one group in one environment evolve intelligence and one won't, why would there be differences? intelligence can help in every environment meaning the same selective pressures would be applied, being smart would help in every environment whether it be the forests of Europe of the jungles of Africa"
Um, maybe it has something to do with the people not just the environment? sort of like what ive been saying the whole time? But in any case, my understanding is euros had harsher environments in a way that fostered planning (IE winter means less food, so stock up before winter) would establish concepts of future events, the concept of linear time, and other abstract concepts that did not have those specific selective pressures in africa.. Or the selective pressure sin africa didnt do the jobs they were supposed to do? or perhaps, some groups of people are further back in an evolutionary standpoint
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@iumasz6088
"yes, and i have provide reason to believe that environmental changes wouldn't cause genetic changes in such periods of time, such as, animals not evolving so quickly naturally without extreme selective pressures such as selective breeding."
No, you havent actually done that, unless you are saying that the rapid dhanges in other groups of people was withotu extreme selective pressure
"you've got to do that because you've got to show that this sort of rapid evolution is possible, which doesn't seem to be"
Then why did europeans and chinese both do the thing you say is impossible?
"we did, and i've stated how come they are no where near as extreme as your fox experiment example, these selective pressures are pretty minimal and would theses selective pressures make it so people in Africa intelligence wouldn't be as selected forth as much as in Europe or Asia?"
Firstly there are more than one selctive pressure, there are thousands, and they are far morepressuring than you think they are. not gonna go over them again." would theses selective pressures make it so people in Africa intelligence wouldn't be as selected forth as much as in Europe or Asia?" i mean i struggled comprehending the sentence, as im positive english is not your primary language, but im assuming you are asking why intelligence wasnt selected in africa while asia and europe were different, and that would rely to the answer at teh end of my previous post.
"Can, and do occur doesn't mean they happened in this example"
Ok, but you keep stating "impossible"
"sorry if i am mistaken but you seem to be using circular logic:
"why are euros smarter than africans?"
"because of genetics"
"and how do we know genetics influence their inteligence?
"because euros are smarter than africans"
Not even close, and the fact you type this out is confusing to me. Why? this isnt what i was arguing at all. This is just demonstrating you arent graspign what im tellign you, and it may have to do with language barriers...
""and how do we know genetics influence their inteligence""
because we can see genetic patterns in groups along all lines of physical and psycolotical measurments. you keep pretening tat we are some blank slate at birth, and education adn environment are the only important factors of a group advancing.
"If you want to prove this you've got to get a piece of evidence that isn't in this loop"
Your loop doesnt work, see above, and the fox expirement? I SAID 6 genrations, but i was wrong, it was more. about 12 or 13, and it STILL isnt a long period of time then i looked up the expiremtn and it was more. This is still not a long peroid of time, and human populations have been seperate adn constantly evonvling for hundreds adn hundreds of years before intercontinental travel was commonplace.
"where are you getting this? Because on the wikipedia page it seems says the opposite"
Sorry it was the THIRD paragraph, guess i bunched the three paragraphs into a single paragraph befor ethe table of contents
"There are numerous proposed explanations of the Flynn effect, as well as some skepticism about its implications. Similar improvements have been reported for semantic and episodic memory.[3] Research suggests that there is an ongoing reversed Flynn effect, i.e. a decline in IQ scores, in Norway, Denmark, Australia, Britain, the Netherlands, Sweden, Finland, France and German-speaking countries,[4] a development which appears to have started in the 1990s"
>debunks you claim with google search
>moves goalpost
when did i move the goalpost?
You said they couldnt have travveled or done much advancment without horses because of lack of ease of transportation, but i just googled and its stated they has other animals as well, and that your point would have been made moot. Pretty sure i copy pasted something out of order
"but the increase in IQ in the last 100 years is documented in other sources as well. so even if this source is lackluster there are many others that show the same thing, that IQ has increased substantially over the last 100 years"
Right, but this is really sort of a meaningless point, mostly because that third paragraph points out that this is probably not a constant, and depends on other factors. Might lead to a conclusion that all human population shave max and min possible " iq" or however you would like to measure intelligence in any manner of speaking, and that it is possible to raise your level closer to the maximum. I would point to " the flynn effect" to me more related to the mass transfoer of information, and ease of research and selective pressures of decades passed.
"isn't your whole point that genetic factors are mostly responsible for the changes in intelligence"
Yea mostly
"well i have info that shows that IQ has increased substantially over the last 100 years and this I've made point suggests that genetic changes can't happen quickly"
Well with spoiler, you can have up to 5 or 6 human generations in that time frame
"very nature of mutations"
Yeah i dont know why you are talking about mutations.... im not suggesting increased intelligence is a mutation... thats on you
"so genetic factors can't have been the thing that caused that increase of IQ"
You cant state that
"nurture factors like environment and upbringing and education are more likely the answer"
Ok so if we are gonna argue nature v nurture you can, you would still be wrong, and again missing the part where " environment" not just upbringings, who you know, your local life, but the wilderness, weather, and animal life affect you, and these selection pressures can create genetic shifts over time that have nothing to do with random mutations...
"to say Africa less harsh that Europe is a little far. one continent is green, is very wet and has very little hard to inhabit terrain like deserts and jungles, just a few mountain regions and harsh cold only on the northern side of the continent, almost all of Africa is very hot with the southern areas being the coolest, but still hot, quite dry and have quite a large amount of hard to inhabit terrain like jungles deserts and savannas with a few mountains as well."
OK, so EVEN when you demonstrably have functional land in africa which may or may not be larger than all of europe, WHY massive civilizations and cultures that europe had? why? they were there for many more years than euros. why? you keep making excuses. If the land was harsh, they should have evolved. they didnt. the land doesnt freeze, there are few horrid storms, and irrigation isnt impossible, and was used in Egypt thousands of years ago. why not africans?
"They are at least, equally as harsh, one too cold, ones too hot, and all of Africa is pretty hot, places in Europe, in southern Europe like Italy and Greece don't get as cold during winter like Britain or Germany, in fact it is no coincidence that Italy and Greece gave birth to the most advanced European civilizations at their time, Rome and ancient Greece"
Right, and northern africa, and southern afirca both have more temperate zones, yet there is no advanced civilizations there until foreigners came... why?
"I see where you are getting at but planning ahead would be as equals useful to the Africans as it was for the Europeans"
Why? there isnt a long period in the year where gathering food is drastically harder to do
"even in hunter gather communities planning ahead would be a useful skill, knowing when to hunt and how often, hell even with hunting you need to know knowledge of seasons, as in different seasons animals behave differently and move to different areas, being able to know where these animals are at any given season and which one is the best for hunting would be beneficial, just as in farming communities knowing when winter arrives"
and yet africians had not done the very things others have done... why?
"what selective pressures do you have in mind? why would they be different? intelligence is useful in every environment, as it could be used to solve problems and help adapt to the environments more"
I have no idea. you make a case that africians should have made advancements just like other groups why have they not? " education" and " economy" arent going to give you an answer
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@iumasz6088
"my whole point is be saying they did does things not because their genes changes so quickly but because of differences in environments and their environment being a lot easier to establish successful civilizations in"
Except this isnt the case and we established that both regios had environmental pressures that should have led to advancment, yet it didnt
And again, genetic differences are crafted by environment. you keep using them like they have no relation...
"there are thousands but i fail to see how they would cause the difference in IQ between the groups especially as these selective pressures would cause things other than intelligence , so you could elaborate how they explain the difference"
Explain what difference? i dont even know what you are asking. You are asking how selective pressures can effect intelligence? The same way environmental pressures would?
"I am not denying that selective pressures exist or that they could have an impact but i don't see how they could explain such differences in IQs and them increasing that quickly, as since those selective pressures select different features not just intelligence their impact of intelligence itself may be smaller than you think."
OK so why did some groups do the very thing you keep saying didnt happen? rapid advancement in civilization in a short time period.
"once again how would these selective pressures would justify the differences in IQ, i also was meant to say "would theses selective pressures make it so people in Africa's intelligence wouldn't be as selected forth as much as in Europe or Asia?"
You are asking me to explain something no one even fully understands? IDK what pressures would push for intelligence. im just stating that for some reason most groups can deal with that and already have. but some dont. you say its environment, i say its genetic, you argue, i point out that genetic changes are a result of both previous actions of the genes in question and environmental pressures from the natural and unnatural world.
just because i've made a mistake doesn't mean i am a foreigner. people make mistake when they write extensive pieces of writing and don't proof read."
Ok cool, so where are you from/what is your primary language?
"Ok, but you keep stating "impossible" "
"Such rapid genetic change that affects intelligence where there are not extreme selective pressures present in selective breeding
First off, yo are fundamentally wrong. rapid changes DID happen, ive explained this to yo. You keep citing " the flynn effect" and in the third paragraphs of the article gives contrary evidence to the claim you make about it.
"impossible in the example of human IQ increasing, but in other examples such as selective breeding, they are possible."
except i gave yo historical examples of intelligence increasing. Some groups were traveling the world, while others havent even mastered watercrafts or the wheel. YOU keep saying its an education or economy or environmental reason./ Im pointing out that the simplest explanation " some groups are more advanced on a linear development timeline than others"
what is it that you are telling me?"
That your " circular logic" bit made no sense, and demonstrates a lack of understanding of what im trying to talk about... thats what i said when i responded the first ime. why are you asking me again?
"What we where discussing was an explanation on how Africans are not as developed as Europeans and your reasoning for is are mainly genetic while mine are mainly environmental and one of the arguments to prove they are genetic was to show that Africans are not as developed as Europeans or the Chinese, which is what we are trying to give reasons for why."
I already did. you keep not grasping it isnt me not telling yo, its you not getting what im saying. I ask YOU why they are different, you state environmental reasons. i spend hours trying to show you that genetics ties in directly yo the question you are seeking to have answered, and that environment can effect genetics. you keep sayin no thats not true and cant happen like i said. yet there is NO other explanation that explains why africians are so far behind. unless they were genetically different, and that is a primary driver of the different. if it wasnt, why arent there groups growing and thriving in africa before euros showed up? why? its certainly not the environment because others can deal with it just fine. so it must be the people. you disagree and have nothing to explain how it wouldn't be other than suggesting that education and environment are the causes. but if that were the case why are they not advancing like euros did? why? maybe because they are genetically different and genetic differences ACTUALLY matter in the real world...
"because we can see genetic patterns in groups along all lines of physical and psycolotical measurments. you keep pretening tat we are some blank slate at birth, and education adn environment are the only important factors of a group advancing.
"my argument isn't that we are a 100% blank slate. genes definitely affect things like intelligence, among individuals not necessarily R"
Well you would be wrong
"genetic diversity is 6x more than genetic diversity among races,and those "psycolotical measurments" we've got to establish whether or not they are from the genetic patterns or is it a case of correlation not being the causation. this is the whole point of this discussion."
Again, your english makes this difficult. You can pretend there arent differences that line up on racial lines, btu you would in fact be wrong on all counts
"Your loop doesnt work, see above, and the fox expirement? I SAID 6 genrations, but i was wrong, it was more. about 12 or 13, and it STILL isnt a long period of time then i looked up the expiremtn and it was more. This is still not a long peroid of time, and human populations have been seperate adn constantly evonvling for hundreds adn hundreds of years before intercontinental travel was commonplace.
"
"13 generations, you know how much that is in human generations? 260-390 years, (13x20 - 13x30)"
Yeah except humans can and did breed long before 20 years old in years passed. Lowest was around 16 so at that point that would mean 208 years for 13 generations.
and even so, 300 years isnt that long of a period of time if we are being completely honest. humans in their current form have existed for thousands of years..
"and also lets not forget that this conversation is about IQ, if it takes that long to change intelligence, even under extreme selective pressures, then why did we see a jump in substantial jump in IQ in less than 100 years?"
Im saying that some groups are further along than others, and that is why some groups advanced seemingly rapidly while others didnt...
"Clearly genetic changes that affect intelligence are not the cause of this jump,"
Clearly you cant prove that so good job
"which suggests a significantly more important role of nurture factors."
No, it doesnt, and if it did how? and If that WAS the case, why are they still struggling? why are there still massive gaps? again, because my theory is that they are simply humans on a different space in the evolution continuum on a scale much larger than we think
"apology accepted. everyone makes mistakes."
Uh huh and yet they completely contradict what you have been saying this whole time
"what about before then? we are talking about results taken form the early 20th century being compared"
and you are the one telling me that the flynn effect is the constant rising of intelligence, then these studies in the very first three paragraphs of the Wikipedia article say the exact opposite. AGAIN, its almost like different groups are genetically different leading to differences of outcomes , regardless where they are environmentally.
"fair enough, there still was transportation and i am aware of that but horses are by fare the most effective method, hence why they where used so extensively by europeans, almost every role those animals could do a horse could do better, apart from camels with traveling deserts."
First off you are straight up talking out your @**, camels, more well adapt to the climate, and able to carry more weight than the horse were used by those in the middle east and have very similar conditions in africa, and you claim that hot having horses was a detriment? how? you have no clue what you are talking about and are still just making excuses
"Right, but this is really sort of a meaningless point, mostly because that third paragraph points out that this is probably not a constant, and depends on other factors. Might lead to a conclusion that all human population shave max and min possible " iq" or however you would like to measure intelligence in any manner of speaking, and that it is possible to raise your level closer to the maximum. I would point to " the flynn effect" to me more related to the mass transfoer of information, and ease of research and selective pressures of decades passed
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@iumasz6088
"its says that there is skepticism about its implications, not whether or not the Flynn effect actually happened."
What? the third paragraph stated they had studies detailing a decrease, which is contradictory to the flynn effect. My explanation above makes far more sense
"are you saying that there is a predefined limit but now we can reach it?"
Yes,. there is a predetermined max and min value for how smart someone can be. just like there is a min max of how tall you will be or ho/what you look like when working out and building muscles. some people are born never going to be able to look like a bodybuilder, no matter how much they work, but they can still increase muscle mass and strength. Someone who is on the low end of intelligence, can work had, study, learn, and increase his intelligence, but he will never approach the levels of dawkins or Einstein
"you've said "to me more related to the mass transfoer of information, and ease of research" those are environmental factor right there"
Yes, and yet with these factors in place over a hundred years ago, why is africa not advancing like every other group? gonna keep circling back to that, because every excuse seems to disappear when examined under scrutiny
"infact thats what i am arguing, that it increased access and availability of education, information, and people in africa don't have this level of mass transfer and ease of research because they don't have the facilities
Again with the damn excuses, hundreds and hundreds of years, and no real measurable levels of advancement until the euros showed up... ffs, they were bronze aged people in a technological age when the EUROS showed up...and STILL have yet to meet the standards of other groups from centuries passed.
"because they didn't develop due to their harsher environment where it was more difficult to make the technological and developmental advances."
again, BS, how and why? you make excuses for africians, while middle easterners live in similar environments...
"selective pressures of decades passed."
"what sort of selective pressures could have affected their IQ specifically? and why would these selective pressures be different from the ones applied to europeans?"
"effect IQ specifically" yeah i dont think thats how this works. Its not a pressure specifically targeting IQ, but targeting an action, or a response that facilitates a change. IE you would be hard pressed to single out any factor that exclusively increases intelligence.
"do you know what evolution is based on? random mutations, no random mutations, no evolution, no changes in genes that could change intelligence."
Oh ok i guess the environment has zero effect now? I fail to see how a group of people being forced to change their behavior or risk starvation is " mutation"
"that's the conclusion I've arrived"
Ok, but saying it doesnt make it true
"genetic factors may play a small part but they cannot be the main reason as large changes in genome that affect intelligence cannot happen in such a short time in such circumstance."
again, no proof in this statment whatsoever. stating thigns doesnt make them true
"wait nothing to do with random mutations? do you know how genetic shifts occur in the first place?"
Literally any other factor? like wtf are you talking about? you understand what adaptation is right? and not everything is "random mutations" right? like you can fully understand that its not one single factor determines X right? otherwise this is kinda pointless to discuss
"OK, so EVEN when you demonstrably have functional land in africa which may or may not be larger than all of europe, WHY massive civilizations and cultures that europe had? why? they were there for many more years than euros. why? you keep making excuses. If the land was harsh, they should have evolved. they didnt. the land doesnt freeze, there are few horrid storms, and irrigation isnt impossible, and was used in Egypt thousands of years ago. why not africans?"
"trade and that those functional pieces of land where isolated from the rest of the world for a long time until the middle ages. and trade and contact are important in the the exchange of information."
what the hell are you talking about? like this is just pulled out of your @ss... none of t his has any standing because we discussed how everything you bring up is a non factor, and is mostly false at face value
"Right, and northern africa, and southern afirca both have more temperate zones, yet there is no advanced civilizations there until foreigners came... why?"
"northern Africans aren't "black" so they don't count, and the southern tip of africa was never settled for the reasons i've said about cape town.
LOL ok so northern africa is middle eastern environment, centeral africa is similar to areas in brazil and south America, which both had civilizations far surpassing afircas, anc your cape town excuse is BS " there were mountains and stuff so they couldnt possible get there" BS travelling along the costs on either side of cape town will get you there, many are able to subsistence farm, so thats pretty low score for your excuses...
"you where talking about planning ahead a month or two differences doesn't mean that Africans wouldn't evolve this ability to understand such abstract concept"
Bro what are you talking about " the facilitation of the abstract thought of future planning would exist without the environmental pressure of advanced planning?"
you know, i cant remember where or how i found it, but there was either a book or a long article written by somoene who spent years working with africians, and found many had no language/linguistic terms for the concept of the passage of time, or other concepts. id look it up and tell you more, but ill be hard pressed to find it. Meaning that if a culture of people never developed ideas or concepts, that they would stagnate
"and yet africians had not done the very things others have done... why?"
"think about the other stuff I've said, the difficulty to trade, difficulty of travel, the general isolation of the continent for a long period of time before the middle ages, all these things means ideas haven't spread, while there are areas where agriculture can flourish"
and i debunked literally every single " point" you made as also being present in many other peoples histories... why do you keep acting like that meant nothing?
"those communities would have been isolated for a long time when European civilizations where progressing ahead, learning from other civilization by the ideas that where spread around."
And yet every other group on the planet, all with very similar disadvantages had seemed to all progress passed the state africa is still at.
"I have no idea. you make a case that africians should have made advancements just like other groups why have they not? " education" and " economy" arent going to give you an answer"
"Environment meaning that their communities would have been isolated from one another which would impact the spread of technology and so development"
and im telling you this is BS. ive already established to you that these people arent like a lost amazonian tribe with no contact with any otehr group for thousands of years
"Since IQ increases happened to quickly for genetics to be the primary factor"
you cant even assume this...
If what you were telling me is true, africa should be far far far further developmentally than it is now. but it isnt. its still stagnating. nothing you have said offers ANY explanation
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@iumasz6088
I know you want to cut this short, but you could at least answer one question you seem to keep avoiding answering. What is your primary language?
"I will focus on the crux of your argument as you seem to be circling back to this point that is that genetic differences that explain this difference in development, which also is the evidence for the genetic differences."
What the hell are you even trying to say "genetic differences that explain this difference in development, which also is the evidence for the genetic differences"
my argument
Groups are different
genetic difference exist
these differences are a combination of nature and nurture
some groups advanced, others stagnated
all these things that are observable
from an evolutionary standpoint my argument is different groups of people are at different stages of human development on a millions of years style scale
where am i claiming "genetic differences that explain this difference in development, which also is the evidence for the genetic differences"
"You are too focused on the "what" , not the "how" or the "why " or "could"
the " why" is that we are different. you want me to explain it, IDK why that is the case, but it is.
"Yes, there results are there, one group is more advanced than one but you are not thinking about why and how or whether or not "could" that happened.
"WHY, would one group not become intelligent, and one would? WHY? intelligence is useful in every environment, Africa or Europe or Asia, even if selective pressures could affect intelligence would there be a difference in selective pressures, with intelligence not being favored as much in Africa for some reason?"
Thats the question i was asking you, the only answer I have is that we are different.
"You are asking me to explain something no one even fully understands? IDK what pressures would push for intelligence. im just stating that for some reason most groups can deal with that and already have. but some dont. you say its environment, i say its genetic, you argue, i point out that genetic changes are a result of both previous actions of the genes in question and environmental pressures from the natural and unnatural world. "
"you don't even know what pressures could explain this difference, why are you assuming there must be one because of the "WHAT" the difference in results."
What are you talking about? Just because i cant explain something doesnt mean it isnt real.
" its environment and education"
then why do they still lag behind when we give them better environments and education? The only explanation i can assume is that they are just different
"Look man, i get it, you held this view for a long time, you're probably been on this earth of quite a while and seeing these differences you've come to this conclusion, but have you thought about that these genetic difference could happen in the first place?"
Because maybe, JUST maybe, some groups are less evolved than others
"can you say the same thing would have happened to humans? in less than a 100 years as well."
Yes wtf are you talking about, huge massive leaps in progress were made in those time frames for every group on the planet except africa...
"what would be the selective pressures that make is so the Africans for some reason don't evolve intelligence unlike in Europe? why wouldn't they evolve this intelligence?
Think about it. why?"
Unless you are asking a rhetorical question, i dont see the point in continuing to ask. I dont know why reality is the way it is. why dont you tell me?
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@iumasz6088
"I am from England, native English speaker Lived here all my life.
Being born in england does not make one english in the same way me speaking japanese makes me japanese. You know why i was asking and you didnt asnwer. Where are your ancestors from? surely not england
"Since we know there was a net increase of IQ in the less than a 100 years (even if we take in the possible fall of IQ) What caused this increase in IQ?"
" what " caused the increase is just as important as knowing why some didnt change while others did.
"I've already stated that evolution couldn't happen that quickly as their aren't selective pressures as extreme as in the Fox experiment. Do you still think so?"
Look, the question you are asking directly conflicts with the following statement.
"from an evolutionary standpoint my argument is different groups of people are at different stages of human development on a millions of years style scale"
wait, millions of years style scale?
"Do you know that modern humans (Homo sapiens) only started to move out of africa 100,000-70,000 ago?"
Did you know that the accuracy of the out of africa theory has been called into question recently? and if so, why would every group change drastically while one didnt?
"we are only talking about tens of thousands of years, no where near million."
Right, and if on a scale of millions of years, some groups of humans are thousands of years behind, it would be seen as small in scale
"No wonder you think that genetics are so important, if it was millions of years then yes you would have a point, but this is not the case."
"you probably got that number from the fact that early humans appeared only 2 millions years ago, but we are talking about tones like homo erectus and such, Homo sapiens, us, where only around for 300,000-200,000 years and only started to move out of Africa since 100,000 years at least, and Homo sapiens only arrived to Europe 50,000 years ago."
Sure bud... "Australopithecus" which were around in africa in the late Piacenzian era which is aproximatly 2-3 mya. To assume that human evolution only started at an arbitrary point in time isnt really accurate considering the long length of time earth has supported life, and the length of time we have recorded history.
"so we are actually talking about a time frame of 50,000 years between Africans and Europeans"
So is your argument that 50ka long or short time? because were talking about recently drastic changes in intelligence and advancement from some groups while not having anything from others. and you say there wasn't enough time to have drastic changes, but the evidence of reality proves that there were drastic changes in a short time. 49k years and not much happens then all of a sudden massive changes? My explanation is that some groups are a few thousand years behind in evolution.
"my position stayed mostly the same"
No they didnt, and thats why i brought it up
"we talked about IQ being meaning less when it comes to migration"
what? no, its pretty important... brain drain, and returning to the mean are real things that happen..
"we moved to why are IQ different and so we came into this discussion right now"
Yeah the one wher you said it didnt matter, and now argue mbased on it.. pretty sure thats not having the same position on IQ as you did earlier...
"my position is that that genetic factors might have a small but mostly insignificant difference when it comes to explaining this IQ difference and things that can be changed like development education and even nutrition have a much larger effect."
they don't have the same environments, a large portion of of the black community live in the inner cities, have less income, and have higher crime, because of culture, because of single parent households where children don't get much care and a lot of them turn to a life of crime."
And THIS is what i was talking about. you are acting like these are CAUSES and not OUTCOMES of differences..
" you are probably going to mention that study"
No, im not, although i found it in the list after the 4th time skimming though it. You keep making excuses for groups of peole failing on a civilizational level and blame it on factors, that to other groups arent as big of roadblocks as you think they are.
Why are poor W neighborhoods safer than poor B neighborhoods? Why are non W students given bonus points on SAT scores? You can pretend its education, but in todays age, you cannot use education as a crutch, you can self educate on anything you want for almost free.
Where do you think this culture comes from? I know where culture comes from and can answer that question. you disagre
because you say its "in reference to education family life in the vain of " racial discrimination" being the reason for the disparities in racial groups in the US." which i actually don't think it is racial discrimination is why those disparities exist.
Ok, but even with all the modern advantages of western living and education, they STILL lag behind and grow a toxic culture...
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@iumasz6088
"i am also a white native Briton as well, still just because i've phrased sentences weirdly a few times doesn't mean i am a foreigner."
Sure, but it doesnt mean your poor sentence structure ISNT a sign of someone who is ESL. Ive seen alot of it. can i at least assume either your english grades were lacking or english classes we received were vastly different?
yeah, every people on the continent rose IQ some more than others, but it seems to correlate with the speed of development , but how could this be genetic if it is less than 100 years?"
"some more than others" Yeah almost like groups are different or something. "how could it be genetic if its less than 100 years"
Ok let me try an illustrate something for you because im tired of re explaining it in various ways
Super simple and not really " accurate" but picture two groups of people of proto human intelligence, and give them both identical lego sets. massive lego sets, 30k pieces.
One group opens the box, begins to examine the pieces, experiments with them, the other group hasnt figured out how top open the box, eventually they lose interest
The first group eventually figures out that the pieces make the thing on the picture on the box, then they eventually learn to understand the instructions, and build the model after many attempts. the second group is then shown this, and shown how to open the box, then they start building. but then didnt have the same length of time experimenting with the blocks, or grasping the instructions, and whatever they made was always sub par and never stood up long. it takes much longer than the first group to achieve similar results as a result of this missing development time.
Scale this up to many thousands of years, the lego set represents complex reasoning/society/knowledge and the groups are Africans and everyone else
In this situation, your point about education ( opening the box, showing the finished product) still can exist in this scenario of my point that group differences can have compounding effects long term (not being able to build, because of lack of understanding of the bricks, physics, and the instructions)
well what is the new skepticism about out of Africa?
Since i only googled and read a few articles, that it pushes the date of " out of afirca" 100k-200k years, or implies africa wasnt the origin. Im sure there will be other discoveries further on detailing an even older origin, and an even older migration/separation
"literally acknowledged that, but those "humans" are literally a different species."
I mean time is linear, and if they are distant ancestors, would that not still prove my point? that " humans" have been evolving for millions of years?
"So is your argument that 50ka long or short time? because were talking about recently drastic changes in intelligence and advancement from some groups while not having anything from others. and you say there wasn't enough time to have drastic changes, but the evidence of reality proves that there were drastic changes in a short time. 49k years and not much happens then all of a sudden massive changes? My explanation is that some groups are a few thousand years behind in evolution."
"100 years is nothing, especially as we are speaking about changes in intelligence which would happen more slowly as there is a smaller chance for a positive mutation that will eventually be selected for in the species."
im at the point where " 100 years" is vague, and " changes in intelligence" is spoken like is hard data, and i dont really care. you arent saying anything toat contradicts what ive said. I can point to many periods in history where there were great advancements in less than a 100 year time frame from many different cultures, except from one continent
"yet you can't explain why they would change, despite there being no reason for one to just not evolve intelligence, a feature that is useful in every environment?"
What are you talking about? they still lag behind. " they went up" doesnt mean they arent behind, still behind, and that it isnt genetic related...
"who's they?"
Your positions... like how did you not get that? see this is why i thought you were ESL, whats goin on dude?
"And THIS is what i was talking about. you are acting like these are CAUSES and not OUTCOMES of differences.."
"i see where you are coming from, but this can't be confirmed until i see those studies removing environmental factors, just to see if they are not missing out something."
Just look at that whole list of studies and read up on some. Brain size differences, the warrior gene, etc
oh you found it. where is it on that list?
just a link to the abstract, the link the the actual document doesnt exist
"Why are poor W neighborhoods safer than poor B neighborhoods? Why are non W students given bonus points on SAT scores? You can pretend its education, but in todays age, you cannot use education as a crutch, you can self educate on anything you want for almost free.
"are they exactly as poor? and even then "black culture" could explain the difference."
No, this doesnt explain anything.
"well keep in mind that a large portion of African Americans where descendants of slaves and slavery and segregation laws would have impacted their culture."
And you just took a dump on all the African Americans that were intelligent and made something of themselves by pretending slavery and segregation are holding the rest of them back
"I've also got to ask you a question, if it is genetics then why are there African Americans who are as rich or richer than whites, and they often adopt what is colloquially known as "white culture" which seems to suggest that its their culture holding them back."
So follow me on this one. genetics gives way to culture. if one groups culture is better than another, and members of that second group ADOPT the culture of the first group, and this leads to long term success, this does not negate the point that genetics and culture are linked. Only proves that you CAN improve with action, but this does NOT change the reality of the difference.
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@iumasz6088
"ok, understand what you mean but Europeans where given an environmental advantage with their continent being a lot more fertile and wet, easier to travel, (due to frequent bodies of water), and so less isolated to the other parts of the world and a lot easier to travel the distance from one civilization to another when compared to Africa. because in africa we are dealing with a larger land area that needs to be covered and the rough terrain like deserts and jungles, compare a journey from Zimbabwe to Nigeria and compare the journey from Greece to France, smaller distance and you can also go by the Mediterranean in the case of the European . we've also got to consider that they where closer to the area birth of civilization which is the middle east, more specifically Mesopotamia, the Africans where separated via the Sahara desert.
OK but this explanation sorta goes against most of the middle east, as that is mostly deserts and mountains with sporadic bits of life. you keep saying they couldnt, but maybe they could, but just didnt travel? maybe there is something you havent thought of..
"you are also right to say that the explanation of the divide this happened over thousands of years but thats because of isolation, Africa was isolated form the rest of the world until the middle ages but by the middle ages the rest of the world was already pretty far ahead and the Europeans where about to start traveling the world which helped them go even further"
OK but that doesnt explain why they were so far ahead during the middle ages...
"n this situation, your point about education ( opening the box, showing the finished product) still can exist in this scenario of my point that group differences can have compounding effects long term (not being able to build, because of lack of understanding of the bricks, physics, and the instructions)"
"so you're acknowledging that factors like education have a much more profound effect than you initially thought?"
No, im not at all, i dont know why, but you seem to be reading what you want to hear instead of what i wrote. I was stating that even WITH education, the gap still exists...
"why would these differences come about in the first place? why would in one group intelligence not be as selected for as in another one? when intelligence is a all round useful adaptation."
Just because its a useful adaptation doesnt mean anything in this context. i dont know why one group isnt as smart as another. maybe its because they have differences that make it harder for them? idk, there isnt an answer, and its kind of annoying that you keep asking the same question over and over and over, while i write long descriptions to try and answer it...
wait so we moved out of Africa 100k-200k years ago or has it been pushed further so we actually moved out 200k-300k years ago?
Its like you really arent grasping what i write and its frustrating now... * pushes the date of " out of afirca" 100k-200k years*
Meaning the " however many years ago" this theory supposes the moving out occurred it happened 2-300k years further than they originally thought, and casts doubt in the theory in general
"well it depends by the definition of human, they are called early humans because they are our distant ancestors but when i am talking about our species we are talking about Homo sapiens specifically"
Literal pointless semantic argument... " well actually" no, a distant ancestor means its related genetically. but please semantically argue the point of an arbitrary designation of modern humans in a sliding scale of worldwide evolution going back millions of years...
"What are you talking about? they still lag behind. " they went up" doesnt mean they arent behind, still behind, and that it isnt genetic related...
"my point about then going up was to disprove the idea that genetic changes could have caused that change and to introduce the possibility of general development increases improvements in diet, living conditions, education and access to education."
it doesnt "disprove the idea that genetic changes could have caused that change" that even if what you are saying is true...
"oh you know why i didn't think you where talking about my position, because i've said "position" singlular, and you used "they" a plural, so i assumed you where talking about something else."
you have made more than one point, and you have more than one position because there is more than one thing to have a position on... but ok "
"i will look (later)"
Ok
"how so? a culture that doesn't value things like personal responsibility and discipline is bound have worse results than one that does
What does that have to do with education? poverty? Even with a culture that rejects personal responsibility/discipline/hard work etc (not all) there is still a gap in those that DO work
"misunderstood what i am saying, first of all this is an overall view, so this doesn't apply to all African Americans slavery and segregation aren't holding them physically back (overall) now but the change they did to their values have stayed."
i disagree, i feel like in general they have gotten exponentially worse
"also we are living in a time where minorities often use their victim hood as excuses for not being responsible for their own actions. there are plenty of African Americans that are intelligent and you would notice that they often don't ascribe to these ideas and values."
Sure but this is also a numbers game, and outliers exist. TBH blacks in the US are used as pawns in political games, and are regularly self sabotaged and propagandized
"So follow me on this one. genetics gives way to culture. if one groups culture is better than another, and members of that second group ADOPT the culture of the first group, and this leads to long term success, this does not negate the point that genetics and culture are linked. Only proves that you CAN improve with action, but this does NOT change the reality of the difference."
"if there is nothing stopping one group from adopting a culture despite being genetically different then why have genetics lead to them having a different culture?"
Again thisis like asking the same question. Why are greeks greek? why are italians italian? why are somalians somalian? they are a rproduct of themselves and the environment they coexist in. Adopting another culture doesnt change the culture that created you. being born INTO a culture STILL means you are not a native of the culture
"their genetics stay same and if their genetics are linked to their original culture and is the reason they have that culture then how are they able to go against their own biology in such a way?"
It isnt " going against their biology"
Its clear you arent grasping what i write for some reason.
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@iumasz6088
"the fertilel cresent wasn't mostly desert it was very lush and fertile, same with Egypt, differences is is that those places are quite close to the seas which allowed them to communicate and travel the Mediterranean and have contact with all these groups like the Greeks or the Egyptians and so on"
You know the fertile crescent was just a small area right? you are aware afghanistan pakistan and other middle eastern countries ARENT like the fertile crescent right?
why would they not travel?
They had the opportunity and the means to do so yet never did. Why would i know why theyb did what they did?
"OK but that doesnt explain why they were so far ahead during the middle ages... "
well it does when you take in that the spread of ideas and technology is very important in technoligical advancements, out numbers, medical theory and more prominently gunpowder are all things that the europeans themselves didn't invent but got from asia,
No, pretty sure the only thin you can give aisans is gunpower, much of math came from arabs and euros, and medical progress was almost entirely western.
and did so thanks to trade and contact with asia, there always was link between europe and the middle and the middle east and the rest of asia, africa didn't have this sort of contact between continents until the middle ages where we get the trans Saharan trade really kick of an some coastal trade from the middle east and india from east africa
yet there is able travel to and from most of africa, as it sall on teh same continent. and nothing was ever shared. almost like you keep making excuses that history doesnt line up with.
i've just asked so i know what you are saying. "with education?" are you saying the africans already got education?
Dude you keep switching from historical africians to current day AA in teh US. wtf. stop. even when educated they still fall behind, meaning " education and environment" arent the key factors here
"also from where you've got that number from?
I googled it and searched for 5 minutes...
"Just because its a useful adaptation doesnt mean anything in this context. i dont know why one group isnt as smart as another. maybe its because they have differences that make it harder for them? idk, there isnt an answer, and its kind of annoying that you keep asking the same question over and over and over, while i write long descriptions to try and answer it..."
I am saying this because this is essentially your Achilles heel in your theory.
How the fck is this an " achillies heel" of my argument? it literally proves my argument. every single point yo make as a defense is slowly picked apart by common sense.
There is no reason for them to be different, but they did anyway."
Again wtf are you talking about. we already discussed to death the genetic difference between these groups, now with all other factors coming together, education and environment there is STILL a gap because they are different. sitting there and saying " for no reason" makes me think you arent even comprehending what im telling you. you read words, and dont even think about them and go on to the next dumb question... very frustrating at this point
"Literal pointless semantic argument... " well actually" no, a distant ancestor means its related genetically. but please semantically argue the point of an arbitrary designation of modern humans in a sliding scale of worldwide evolution going back millions of years...
"how is it arbitrary?"
Literally picking a time period based of of remains, and arbitrary calling it the determining point of early humans? its Ludacris and pretends that human evolution stopped when you go back farther than that..
"every human has a common ancestor somewhere in Africa dating around 200k or according to you somewhere around 400k years ago."
I disagree with the out of africa theory but thats neither her nor there because im not researching or spending time looking into it because thats not the focus here.
and what is the point of brining up proto humans? are yo assuming that africian are the closer link to proto humans? because that seems to make sense with my theroies about lagging evolution
are you saying its not true?
no, most of what you say is wrong
"i've phrased it as one, but it doesn't matter"
come the fck on dude. stop being a twit . you know very well that this entire conversation has seen you make more than one point. saying they are all the same point is dishonest as fck and is pssing me off
"Sure but this is also a numbers game, and outliers exist. TBH blacks in the US are used as pawns in political games, and are regularly self sabotaged and propagandized"
"TBH blacks in the US are used as pawns in political games, and are regularly self sabotaged and propagandized"" yeah i agree, actually.
"yeah, ok you're still originally whatever your native peoples where"
because ethnicity/race and culture are inextricably linked
"It isnt " going against their biology"
Its clear you arent grasping what i write for some reason."
"are you saying that not all African people are genetically that different that caused their drop in IQ and that there are more gifted ones?"
WTF are you talking about? do you know how the bell curve works? you understand that having a few really smart people doesnt mean the rest are really dumb.
"but the proportions of these kinds of people are more common in Europe than in Africa, explaining the drop in Average IQ? think you've said something like this before, so i am asking to clarify this."
WTF ARE YOU SAYING FFS Your english is horrendous!
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@iumasz6088 " I am Grasping. I understand what your position is."
Based on the questions you keep asking, no, you dont
"But clearly both of us aren't refering to the same information."
Sure
"Both of us clearly gained or lost ground, may I remind that you can't give a reason for why would differences in intelligence occur despite it being useful in all cases."
No, not even close... Just because i cant explain why an OBSERVABLE difference exist, doesnt mean it doesnt exist
"YouTube isn't the best place to be debating these complex and detailed topics"
True, but ive been doing it for years anyway. At the very least, it means you have to confront and defend your positions, resulting one to learn, which i think you need to do some more of
"So I won't have the time to engage in this discussion...I won't be able to continue this debate any longer, Take care, and good luck with whatever is going on with your life. It has been interesting talking to you.
fine by me, enjoy, good luck, it is not hate in my words, but harsh truths, and hopefully leads you to look into some information
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@qiqiaoqin1648 i noticed you still havent responded to what i talked about in previous comments.
I also noticed you avoided answering me about my "fairy tails" question. strange you avoided that one a couple times...
" just repeats stuff a cult says"
what are you talking about?
"The only things he could really hate on China for are (from the top of my head) censorship of public speech, authoritarianism, relatively more state-regulation of religion than the West, and a government-first policy when it comes to economics. "
Yeah you seem to miss out on the toxic waste dumping, pollution levels, low wages, suicide nets, people being disappeared, the social credit system, Property theft, espionage, currency manipulation, and a few more im not going to type out because you will ignore it...
" The average Chinese doesn't mind because they value more unity and stability over more license, because let's be honest, when people from the West talk about freedom they really mean license"
License? like the government allowing you to do something? i shouldn't have to ask my governments permission do do anything. sorry i wont want to live like a Chinese locust
"Everything else I believe @Theos CA covered already. Hell I only commented because this is the first time someone actually brought up constructive points to deflect the attacks on China, otherwise I would just ignore most of the comments when Tarl talks about China.
"
ANd you ignore everything i talked about and dismissed it. you are shilling for china and i can only assume because you are a Chinese shill
"
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@qiqiaoqin1648
fairy tales as in a libertarian centrist classical liberal world where we can all "own the libs" together.
Oh so it has nothing to do with anything in reality, and has all to do with your interpretation of other person believes? interesting
It's fine I was at that phase too you'll grow out of it.
Grow out of what? not wanting to be a cog in my governments plans?
No, licence in this case doesn't mean you need to apply for something from the government to do it... Look up freedom vs licence and you'll find out that most westerners want licence.
"In moral and legal philosophy, there exists a distinction between the concepts of freedom and license. The former deals with the rights of the individual; the latter covers the expressed permission (or lack thereof) for more than one individual to engage in an activity.
As a result, freedoms usually include rights which are usually recognized (often, not always, in an unconditional manner) by the government (and access to which is theoretically enforced against any and all interferences). Licenses, on the other hand, are distributed to individuals who make use of a specific item, expressing the permission to use the item or service under specified, conditional terms and boundaries of usage."
None of what you are talking about makes any sense. the definition of terms you are using doesnt vibe, and i fail to see how most people in the west want " license" over freedom?
All other reasons you mention are the byproduct of what the West made China out to be in their role as their factory or a defensive measure against foreign intervention.
So government corruption between the chinese government and the western governments is the problem. well no shit, ive been trying to say this ten entire time.
Also when you say suicide nets you're talking about Foxconn, the Taiwanese company that does this (inb4 "so you're saying Taiwan isn't China?").
Yea, what does it matter? are you saying that everything else i said doesnt exist after you pick out this incident? because it doesnt work like that
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@georgivelev5783
Socialism is in a sense capitalism's shadow. It will always be there, no matter if you like it or not! It has been born by the failures of capitalism the same way capitalism has been conceived and born in blood and violence by the revolutions against Feudalism. Socialism is the critique of capitalism and where capitalism fails, socialism tries to give a solution, an answer. Like capitalism, socialism also evolves over time and develops. FOR EXAMPLE, the socialism of 21 century is not the socialism of 20th century. And this is true for capitalism too - you don't have colonialism, slave markets, you don't have child labour and shockingly long working hours and work weeks, which are a couple of wonderful examples of what capitalism used to be, used to accept as "normal". Of course slave markets are not something invented by capitalism but should make you think how wonderfully those two things used to coexist together... I am putting it out there for all the market lovers, just as a side note. The socialism of 21st century is not for total domination and control of the government, which in fact would be a state capitalism, but is for the reorganisation of the work place and giving the power in the hands of the many, the working people who produce the fruits of the society. The slogan is: "Democratise the enterprise!", because the enterprises are where people spent the most of their lifetime and yet the last place where democracy exist. This is really strange if you ask me for an American society which fetishises democracy, don't you think? What type of democracy and reorganisation should be put in place is a subject for another discussion. Just for a comparison, in Germany, by law, companies of different size have to include proportionate number of representatives of their workers in their board of directors. Wow, I wonder why?! Well this is something unthincable, TRUE COMMUNISM, according to your beloved Bloomberg, everything will collapse, he says and yet Germany - the economic spine of the EU... interesting. They allow more fair share of engagement of their working class than America does...
I feel like we would end up spending far to much time defining terms. I just fail to see how there would be any difference between old socialism and new socialism. being that they both as you describe, as
giving the means of production to the working class.
"by law, companies of different size have to include proportionate number of representatives of their workers in their board of directors."
And what is this going to do? What " fair share of engagement" will this produce? just more people to bribe and become corrupted
"your beloved Bloomberg,"
Excuse you? GTFO
In general, none of these economic models are perfect but they follow gradual progression of overall development. To suggest that socialism is a failure means you are historically inept. I can give you simple examples. The fastest growing economy of the 20th century is USSR, the fastest growing economy of the 21st century is China...
And these things happened in a vacuum solely due to the economic models they used? surely you jest, especially with china, china would not be what it was without teh corruption of the US and the international conglomerates of business who lobby for power...
I am not endorsing the horrors of the Soviet regime, nor the suppression of certain human rights in China, I am simply pointing out what those economic models set out to achieve and how successful they were! And it wasn't merely due to the mechanisms of capitalism. Well it is well known fact that from a poor backward country Russia becomes a world super power managing to rival the United States and yet not being capitalist. All of this happening in only couple of decades! China uses a mixture between centrally planned economy and free owned and operated businesses and in 10 years will become the economic power house of the planet...
Good thing most products out of china are garbage, good thing they manipulate their currency, and lobby the us firms to send business there, yeah good economic model by bribing people to rig the game in there favor...
The history of both economic models is filled with trails and errors. There are multiple types of capitalism the same way there are multiple types of socialism, so it is fair to say socialisms. It has been like this with capitalism and it is the same with socialism, the only difference is that one is more than 200 years old and the other one not as old. You should already know these things if you pretend to understand the merits of capitalism, but I guess you are only interested in pointing out the death counts and not acknowledging any of the positives which the left movement has created, which by the way concerns you directly. Not only you but the guy up there on the video as well! I hardly doubt that neither you nor him are billionaires and in such case your life depends more on the reality of your job than anything else. You should be really concerned what is your place as a worker in this society and what dividends you get by being one.... Answer this to yourself and be very honest to yourself.
Yeah if only giant international businesses didn't lobby my government full of corrupt individuals to sell out the country for a quick buck. surely this is the fault of capitalism somehow. I dont know about you, but there isnt much " capitalism: in the us when the government is in charge of everything. unless this means in your definition of capitalism that the free market has no bearing on anything. But you seem to attribute slavery to the tenets of capitalism
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@georgivelev5783 " there is no smugness" followed immediately by "learn to read"
Sure
"yes of course it will boost them, they will share the profits, the dividends, the grants, whatever you want to call them.
How? by doing what? you think this will have no effect on outsourcing? would this have no effect on employment?
This is the logic, so to deprive them of this is softly said a GROSS exploitation! A crappy, unsecured job for crappy money when at the same time one person gets billions... this is rather grotesque, I think.
You complain about worker exploitation, but claim china is doing well? how is this a good idea to further incentivize offshoring of work? If the same standards were held to china, then it wouldnt be financially better to ship work there
And at the same time same people can't send their kid to school, cause of crippling debt for school tuition fees, house mortgages and loans for cars... RATHER GROTESQUE! Call it envy I don't care, this is not right and everyone knows it is not right!
College has become a scam, degrees are worthless now. We are importing " high skilled immigrants" to work the " college degree jobs" further driving t hose wages down and growing the supply of workers in stem fields. at the same time we off shore low skill labor, we are also importing hundreds of thousands of low skill immigrants ( legal and not) yearly to kill off low wage jobs. Second off, community college is a thing and far cheaper, trade schools are cheaper, dont forget that exploding the population has a large impact on the cost of housing, and if you need a loan to buy a car, you cant afford that car...
Where is the reason in this system, I don't see any. This system produces inequality since the very start of distribution of wealth, and then tries to justify the mess it creates, and then you wonder why some people are in the position of Bloomberg corrupting and forging laws to serve them, well this is why it is, because if you have such division of labour and such distribution of wealth you get this monstrosity of a society.
I explained the " reasoning" its lobbying and corruption. " exploitation of the worker" is just the vehicle for this mode of operation.
- capitalist enterprises are UNDEMOCRATIC by their very nature!
SO what the hell is a "capitalist enterprise"
I open my own business, am i now undemocratic? are people forced to participate in and pay for things from my business? Why is it big buisness = capitalism? Is small business capitalistic? is owning the means of my own production capitalism? or is everything with you an oppressor/oppressed mindset?
No wonder why businessmen buy the politicians and power. As the time goes they manage to either pass convenient laws, bypass laws or not follow them at all - this is how wealth operates. The working class are the ones who have to buy the politicians to serve them, not the other way around. With every denial of this reality you effectively help the rich by indirectly defending their interests for them!
How in what manner am i defending the interests of the rich by wanting protectionist policies and less social welfare? I want less government legislation and interference. I want a freer market, not to be dependent on foreign nations
SO think about that, you are the working person who creates fruits for this society,...You, as a working person should have all the comfort in the society, tax reductions, benefits of all sort
Well if the government didnt take half my paycheck with taxes, and require exorbitant sums to regulatory and fee based gate keeping practices to small business to keep the markets non competitive, so people like bloom berg can reap the benefits. this CANNOT be done without the government
The unions have fought hard and now when the automation and the artificial intelligence are here the productivity of workers has doubled, or maybe quadrupled and you wonna tell me that we will be on a 40 hour work week with a weekend and a crappy job with crappy salary going nowhere and save our entire lives for a crappy house while Bloomberg best the 60+ billion!
And thinking unions in today sage are any better than these bloomberg types you are far more naive than I. Corruption and lobbying is a huge problem with unions. Ever wonder why government projects are always over budget and over time?
I don't think so, this is not normal and majority of people do not except this for normal. This is why they feel misrepresented and disenfranchised by the system. And this is the reason why they vote for Sanders, this is the reason why people voted for Trump, they thought he was different. Obama is the reason why Trump sits in the White house today and why everybody is talking Sanders, Obama did not do ANYTHING to overturn this system since the crash of 2008 which the RICH, THE BANKS AND THE BIG CORPORATIONS CREATED!
End the fed, repeal the 1965 immigration act, begin another round of repatriation, tariff imports, and let it self correct. Raising taxes just to institute more welfare programs and entitlement programs is not going to fix anything. it will just continue the cycle of collapses on a longer timescale
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@Inisfad
AHEM
"so·cial·ism
"
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun
"a p o l i t i c a l and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
"
synonyms: leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism;
"policy or practice based on the p o l i t i c a l and economic theory of socialism.
"
synonyms: leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism; More
(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.
sooo where do you want to go from here?
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@jon-erich9752
"Let's break this down"
oh boy!
"First with the anti-white propaganda. Most normies don't believe any of it."
i mean seems like a generalization to me, most people ive met are on some level buying onto the propaganda...
"Most people in general don't believe it. We've seen it too many times across all forms of media. Whenever a companies embraces wokeness, people turn away. "
I mean what you see is the people who do most of the working and spending turn away
"Only a small minority of people actually believe that shit but companies and corporations listen to them because they happen to be a loud vocal minority.
or because it is beneficial to the corporations do act in such a way
"This was actually scientifically proven btw.
"
Ok, " science" please
"Second, most people in general already have multiple sex partners by high school. Millennials and Gen Z in general have had far fewer sexual partners than previous generations. "
This doesnt undo the decades and decades of promiscuity plastered all over the country and this doesnt fix those already older
"Gen X and the Boomers were getting laid in their younger years a lot more and yet they never had issues being in a relationship.
"
" having sex" and " being in a relationship" dont mean anything when you go through 4 or five before you even start to think about settling down. again, the damage is already done
"Third, the majority of people on welfare are white so that wouldn't stop white people from popping out babies.
"
Most people in the country are still white...
According to population size, immigrants and non whites use welfare and social services and such at higher rates.
"Finally, my point still stands. A lot of these people are basically just like the SJWs they like to make fun of so much. They portray themselves as victims and then try to blame everyone else for their own shortcomings."
generalizations again? are you listening to what they say? or are you just dismissing it and then insulting them
"They also make no attempt at self-improvement. "
who?
"That's a turnoff to women. Women don't like pussy men. "
I guess years and years of " men need to be emotional too" and " women love nice guys" actually meant nothing because we all already knew what they wanted, but being told otherwise fucks with them
"While I'm sure not all of them are part of the Alt-Right"
literally a meme... anything right of center at this point is either nazi or alt right
"for those who are, they're screwing themselves over. Just by aligning yourself with that ideology, you eliminate 95% of the dating pool."
can you even describe the ideology? or is it just what you have been told what it is?
Even some women who agree with the ideology don't want the baggage that comes with being with someone from the Alt-Right.
"If you're someone who constantly blames all of your hardship on the Jews, you may have a chance of dating one of the leaders of the Women's March, but most real women wouldn't want to have anything to do with you."
" muh its da joos" meme seriously, if you want to pretend that the level of influence that the state of isreal has in the united states is astonishing... clearly you dont know much about the state of the world if you just dismiss everything as " blaming da joos"
"Then there's personality, character and other traits. For most of these lonely men, what are they like? Do they have unique personalities or talents? What makes them indistinguishable? They all sound like the same fucking person using the same tired insults and catchphrases. They have no personality of their own."
Sounds like you have this neat idea of what ( alt right) is and you can use it to paint over them without actually addressing anything they talk about.
"If they're anything like this in real life, do they really have a right to blame a woman who doesn't want to date them?"
Here you imply they are even going to be in the presence of women in the first place. Why would someone who doesnt like sexual promiscuity, doesnt like propaganda, and doesnt like partying ever find women?
sounds to me like you have this caricature of " alt right" thats been condensed down to a meme, and then because its basically a meme, you buy into it wholesale
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@wfb.subtraktor311
"so you are one of those "cultural marxism is taking over society" people, despite neoliberalism being the predominant political philosophy in literally all western nations. Get an education, thanks :)
First off, "neoliberalism" """eliminating price controls, deregulating capital markets, lowering trade barriers" and reducing, especially through privatization and austerity, state influence in the economy."" is not whats happening whatsoever.... You want to pretend that cultural marxism isnt a thing, go right ahead
"I just realised that since you are most likely American you can't actually get an education without taking on debt that cannot ever be repaid by the average person."
Why would i waste my time at state sanctioned indoctrination centers? why si it impossible for one to educate oneself without being spoon fed information by authority figures? is this some sort of dunk on me or something? seems pretty petty and lame
"that unregulated capitalism, isn't it?"
Where is this " unregulated capitalism" you speak of? seriously, where is it? all i see is government intervention, and regulatory bodies controlling everything.
"Keeps the proletariate dumb so they keep believing the bs they are being fed. And before you call me a communist Communism is a provably dysfunctional system and has nothing in common with actual socialism (which is impossible to implement at a societal scale due to game theory), instead being an autocratic and centralised form of capitalism."
says cultural Marxism doesnt exist, views the world through Marxist lenses unironically
hilarious
10/10
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@eggynack "its irrelevant"
I just explained to you that your " statistic" is bogus, and you try to weasel your way out of being wrong.
" think that second generation immigrants have such ridiculous rates of criminality that they inflate the rates for US born citizens. Despite the fact that they are substantially exceeded in population size by said citizens."
2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th generations too...
Anyone who does any amount of research into crime and ethnicity can see this abundantly clear. you are a disingenuous fraud and nothing you say holds any weight under the mildest of scrutiny... which is why you stopped trying in every thread i replied to you.....
"Moreover, this logic is deeply perverse. What, we're keeping immigrants out because they might have children and those children might be criminals?"
Yes? Do any amount of research into crimes and who commits them. its pretty obvious as the other guy who brought it up stated, if you only counted ethnically European peoples in crime statistics, the US would have a crime rate similar to other European nations. why the fk does everyone on the planet who wants to come in get to come in? it isnt their nation. it is a nation of Europeans and Europeans are being ethnically cleansed everywhere they live. you are disingenuous in your arguments because you despise borders, nations, and my people
"What kind of sense does that make? It's like punishing people for future crimes, except it's not even their crimes. It's the crimes of their currently hypothetical children."
How is NOT letting someone into my nation punishment? why do you have the right to come in but i dont have the right to say no? what sovereignty is there? None. but thats what you wanted. you hate borders and my people. its clear how much you despise these very ideas of nationhood and sovereignty
"Anyway, you've given literally no basis for the idea that this is a reasonable lens to apply to the data in the first place. So I also don't consider it a particularly strong challenge on that basis."
Yes, it IS a reasonable lens to apply to the data. you just dont like the reality of the data i presented. You throwing out everything i say, and saying " no your wrong actually" isnt an argument. It isnt a reasonable idea, and it makes far less sense then what i have repeatedly stated over and over. you are a fraud and an intellectual coward.
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@eggynack in case it wasnt visible
"its irrelevant"
I just explained to you that your " statistic" is bogus, and you try to weasel your way out of being wrong.
" think that second generation immigrants have such ridiculous rates of criminality that they inflate the rates for US born citizens. Despite the fact that they are substantially exceeded in population size by said citizens."
2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th generations too...
Anyone who does any amount of research into crime and ethnicity can see this abundantly clear. you are a disingenuous fraud and nothing you say holds any weight under the mildest of scrutiny... which is why you stopped trying in every thread i replied to you.....
"Moreover, this logic is deeply perverse. What, we're keeping immigrants out because they might have children and those children might be criminals?"
Yes? Do any amount of research into crimes and who commits them. its pretty obvious as the other guy who brought it up stated, if you only counted ethnically European peoples in crime statistics, the US would have a crime rate similar to other European nations. why the F does everyone on the planet who wants to come in get to come in? it isnt their nation. it is a nation of Europeans and Europeans are being et*nically cle*nsed everywhere they live. you are disingenuous in your arguments because you despise borders, nations, and my people
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@eggynack my replies are no longer visible
"its irrelevant"
I just explained to you that your " statistic" is bogus, and you try to weasel your way out of being wrong.
" think that second generation immigrants have such ridiculous rates of criminality that they inflate the rates for US born citizens. Despite the fact that they are substantially exceeded in population size by said citizens."
2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th generations too...Anyone who does any amount of research into crime and ethnicity can see this abundantly clear. you are disingenuous and nothing you say holds any weight under the mildest of scrutiny... which is why you stopped trying in every thread i replied to you.....
"Moreover, this logic is deeply perverse. What, we're keeping immigrants out because they might have children and those children might be criminals?"
Yes? Do any amount of research into crimes and who commits them. its pretty obvious as the other guy who brought it up stated, if you only counted European peoples in crime statistics, the US would have a crime rate similar to other European nations. why the f**k does everyone on the planet who wants to come in get to come in? it isnt their nation. it is a nation of Europeans and Europeans are being e(thni)cally erased everywhere they live. you are disingenuous in your arguments because you despise borders, nations, and my people
"What kind of sense does that make? It's like punishing people for future crimes, except it's not even their crimes. It's the crimes of their currently hypothetical children."
How is NOT letting someone into my nation punishment? why do you have the right to come in but i dont have the right to say no? what sovereignty is there? None. but thats what you wanted. its clear how much you despise these very ideas of nationhood and sovereignty
"Anyway, you've given literally no basis for the idea that this is a reasonable lens to apply to the data in the first place. So I also don't consider it a particularly strong challenge on that basis."
Yes, it IS a reasonable lens to apply to the data. you just dont like the reality of the data i presented. You throwing out everything i say, and saying " no your wrong actually" isnt an argument. It isnt a reasonable idea, and it makes far less sense then what i have repeatedly stated over and over.
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@carawadley317
"I can absolutely address what you said"
Haven't read through, but im gonna hedge my bets and say, no you cant.
"You only view Americans as European."
Because its true. Since its inception, the nation has been 90+% European. Not until 1965 was this ever different...
"That is an ideology and viewpoint I can in no way, shape or form agree with."
It is not an ideology or viewpoint. Its factual historical reality.
"the jobs foreigners are taking are the jobs where there is high-demand in the field, "
Yes, from others already here needing jobs while being saddled with debt.. Pretending that brain draining the rest of the world while simultaneously cutting out local jobseekers as some sort of needed outcome is ludacris from the start. Its all a sham to undercut local labor and import people who dont care about the culture or heritage of a nation and are here for a paycheck and to live the luxury life.
"yet you see visas as unimportant."
they are detrimental to the success of the local people and only benefit governments, multinationals, global corporations, and foreigners. why is this being hoisted as some wonderful thing?
"Ultimately you have given me no rational data or statistics, or even a story to reply to, but simply circle through logical fallacies through a nationalistic viewpoint that is toxic."
You havent addressed anything i said. Nothing i have said thus far is a logical fallacy, nothing i have said is toxic. Nothing i have said is anything other than objective reality to people who bother to see it.
Looks like i was right. You just want to throw me in a box labeled bad and toxic and wrong so then you can just dismiss anything i said as "nonsense buzzword" and ignore it...
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@carawadley317
I think you have a hard time with reading comprehension
Since its inception, the nation has been 90+% European. Not until 1965 was this ever different
"Why is 1965 the cutoff of when immigration should end?"
You clearly cant read the sentence
"Since its inception, the nation has been 90+% European. Not until 1965 was this ever different"
Meaning immigration was almost all from similar countries until 1965 when the hart celler act was passed and changed immigration to vast large numbers and from non euro countries by the millions. In less than 50 years its almost shrank the euro population from 90+% to almost 50% and most white children will be minorities in the lands created by their ancestors.
Is Spanish descent not considered European?
Ehh not really? depends on your definition of " spanish"
"Why only White Europeans?"
Because Europeans should be allowed to live, and if you continually displace Europeans, they wont be around much longer...
"So what if peopl come here for a paycheck"
Because this is a nation, not a shopping mall.
"If you were starving in your home country, wouldn't you leave?"
Why would i do that instead of trying to live and fix the problem? if im starving, grow food, if my government is corrupt, overturn it. not run away. Why would i want ti import endless numbers of cowards?
"That is the great benefit of Capitalism, you can go where the money is!"
Ahh so the people who created all the wealth and opportunities arent allowed to keep it because the whole rest of the world deserves it too? gtfo
"How are visas bad for companies."
Again with the lack of reading comprehension
How does this sentence
"they (visas) are detrimental to the success of the local people and only benefit governments, multinationals, global corporations, and foreigners. why is this being hoisted as some wonderful thing?"
mean " visas are bad for companies" ? what is your malfunction?
"I haven't studied too much about them"
Shocked, i am UTTERLY shocked.......
"but I know that it allows companies to hire the top people in their field"
This is a bold faced lie... These are people who fit checkboxes. Id wager something like 90% of visa holders are actually incompetent.
Its used for cheaper labor for high pay jobs. its used to undercut local talent. Its used to create entire groups of workers who have no ties to the nation, the locals, and when they get their money, they leave taking it with them. You ever work with visa holders? I have, the tech industry is full of them. and every single one of them is incompetent
"I have addressed almost everything you have said"
No, you literally just dismiss what i say, and go back to repeating BS talking points....
"you have still given no statistical, or even theoretical reasons of why you believe what you believe"
Again you clearly lack reading comprehension as i explicitly said to you the following.
this nation is a nation of europeans
this is a fact
this nation was 90+% european from its creation until 1965 when immigration law was changed
this is a fact
foreign immigration takes away jobs from natives
this is a fact
VISA workers are a corporate sham to import low quality workers at discount rates compared to local hires while forcing them to compete with an endless supply of poor foreigners
this is a fact
I have from everything else i spoke about implied that replacing the population of a nation with the populations of other nations, destroys the host nation. Mass immigration into western nations has been majority non european. Eruopeans are a global minority, but receive zero benefits of being minorities. They are becoming minorities in their own homelands, and anyone who says anything about this is labeled as a "white supremacist" or a " european nationalist" and then can be tossed aside because those are evil icky words by people like you so they can feel good about themselves without having to actually discuss the topics.
"From my perspective, it just seems that you see white people of being the only ones who should be in the States and I can't agree with that."
Because you call it icky names and dismiss it. The us is a white nation built by whites for whites. not the entire world. White people deserve to exist
"Give me data or ideas so that I can learn why It truly is better to have less immigration, otherwise feel comfortable that you might be considered to follow a toxic ideology.
I gave you all the information you need,. you dont care, you just regurgitate garbage talking points and call me names. Mass immigration destroys the host nations.
I even gave you an example with japan filled with somalians, and you didnt seem to get it.
if you replace japanese with somalians, then japan just becomes somalia in island form. japanese culture would be erased
Let me give you language lesson
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
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@luct3368
"I just fundamentally think your assessment is wrong and isn't true outside of your head which, since you missed it, means I don't think you're addressing reality."
lol " i think you are wrong" yea bud im sure you think that. Im sure you think im not addressing reality, but that just tells me you either dont know what im talking about, or you dont care to learn about anything im talking about...
"Look, your point about conspiracies is a good insight into the sort of emotional reasoning you're falling prey to. Yes there are conspiracies, that doesn't make all conspiricists correct."
Ok dude, thanks for telling me that # notall conspiracies are real. no way i could have figured that out on my own dude...
"Otherwise you may as well cede the ground to the feminists and intersectionalists and their conspiracies."
This is laughable bullsht dude... not even close...
" you say that elites rule the world, thats a conspiracy, you are like feminists thinking misogyny is the root of all problems
Remember when MKULtra was a conspiracy? remember operation northwoods? the tuskagee expiriment? You think agenda 2030/2040/great reset is a conspiracy too?
"Which you won't, and it won't be reason you use to determine which are true and which aren't, only whether the messenger feels right."
uhhh this sentence doesnt really make any sense
"Demographics don't come with built in ideology - that's the blood and soil argument."
You are wrong and have zero clue what im talking about. if you think culture and ideology can form in a vacuum... Culture and genetics are inextricably linked. you can ignore this and avoid it all you want., but its reality.
"If you could freeze demographics or reverse them to some bygone time how would that solve the degeneracy you're talking about? Those so focused on race can't see they're not offering any answers, and that's a greater determinant of whether people take up the 'right' politics over the gatekeepers.
And you talk like someone who has done absolutely ZERO research into anything being discussed here... Its easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they have been fooled. You can look at voting data right? you can see that W and non W ""americians""" vote differently... mostly because throwing a bunch of tribes together and expecting them to wall work out together is ludacris and a death sentence to any nation...
Multiculti/nationalism is just another way to push globalism and destroy the concept of the nation state...
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@joshjohnson2600
nation (n.)
c.1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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@SuperUnemployable
"you were not ALIVE then to vote or fight for the slaves to be sent back to Africa."
And they were owned by a tiny rich minority of the population and werent even wanted by anyone else, yet we are stuck with them now and forever, something else i did not vote for...
"As far as the immigration reform that came after that once again I would be willing to bet you were not alive during that time so your desire to keep non whites out would not have mattered."
No one voted for those policies, and most people didnt want them in the first place, they were thrust upon the public... again furthering my point if you seem to think its just me, it was a large majority opinion many years ago.
"Along with each of these changes to our rule of law, our country was trying to understand what it really meant to be a land of freedom and opportunity for all.
"
That means freedom and opportunity to the people in the country, not an open invitation for the entire world....
" you say "no one wanted it" who are these people that you asked because folks that I know (yes even white Americans) dont mind LEGAL immigration. "
You again miss the point. we had " legal immigration" before 1965, and it was centered mostly in smaller numbers and more align with the groups that were already hear, mainly Europeans. not until after 1965 was it changed to the point where we get millions upon millions pouring in yearly... its insane to pretend that these are the same things...
"As far as you not voting to have your "homeland" filled with different ethnicities, you dont vote for your laws on the Federal level. You vote in representation to bring bills to be voted on by those who represent the will of the people from their districts. I understand that YOU want a more homogeneous country but enough Americans in the past saw that people from across the world wanted to legally immigrate to the US and take part in the experiment called America and enough Americans were okay with this."
You are again ignoring the factual account of history. pretending that importing millions of foreigners endlessly years upon years in a row, where on average they are very different than the white soon to be minority of the nation, where they make ethnic enclaves, and end up demographically taking over the nation away from the white groups who built it is insane to pretend that the country will remain anything like it is before
"you said these people have no ties to this country could you please explain? What ties do you have to this country?"
My family has been inside this country since at least the lewis and clark expedition, so feel free to judge all you want...
When you walk outside your home and see a foreign country, how are you going to explain how they have ties to the country, if they just make it look like where they came from?
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@SuperUnemployable
"Should we limit the amount of people that we bring in each year? Yes!"
We have too many, some need to go back
"Allow people to become tied or grounded in what it means to be an American. I agree the endless pouring in of people from other nations will result in the dilution of American values and principles to the point where those values are insignificant."
Yes, its no longer one homogeneous nation, but a fractured number of endlessly warring factions...
"I think I heard you say we don't vote on policies, and I'm saying yes I agree we vote on representation to propose policy that the American people want on a large scale.
Except when they arent really " americians" but immigrants with no ties to america who have arrived here in the last few years.Immigrants have become a large voting block. Looking at voter statistics for the last 30 years illustrates my point much better... non whites vote overwhelmingly left, always have, and always will. and this is a problem for wanting a voting base to allow the country to flourish, because currently isnt allowed to do that because giving foreigners the vote is a much better idea. so instead of us destroying the nation we just do nothing while endless hoards of non whites turn america into the nations they all fled from, thus destroying my homeland, as well as destroying the very thing they ran to...
Import the third world, become the third world...
"So no we dont vote on policy but our representation is SUPPOSED to bring policies that reflect the desires of the American people."
And they dont, and havent for many years. now, having more and more potential voted pour in is what they want. its easier to brainwash dumber more naive folks than it is to fool smarter wiser folks. Pretending that IQ doesnt have genetic components to it would be missing the truth. Thats why this is done, for control and power. not out of any idea that these politicians are going to do anything but enrich themselves. FFS Look at cali prop 187. the people voted for immigration and citizenship checkcsand cali just told them to pound sand. now cali is a shit hole, whites are a minority, and the state will be blue forever... wonder if that has something to do with the power control dynamics of unchecked immigration and endlessly ceding ground to left ground to immigrant and lobby groups...
"If those representatives fail to do that it's the Americans job to vote them out of office and replace them with someone who will."
And how are you going to do that when you replace the founding stock of the nation? if you end up flooding a country with non whites, all they need to do is vote in THEIR self interests,. NOT the self interests of america as a whole, and lord forbid they vote for anything in native whites self interests...
"Let me pose this question to you if we were able to put a limit on the amount of people we granted citizenship to each year and allowed them to learn and become a productive part of the American experiment, would you be on board for that?
"
No, the damage is already done, and many need to be removed. the 1965 immigration act must be removed, and a roll back of many years of disgusting immigration and work visa laws. The population growth of this country since 1965 has been almost entirely because of immigration....
they will outnumber whites, then whites will have no place in their own homelands...
see south america for a fun example
africa of whats to come to the US
this is all a coordinated push to flood white countries with non whites, to remove whites from having power globally, and everyone shifting to a global one world order headed by a small tribe of internationalists with zero ties to any nation, and have no qualms with destroying entire peoples, nations, and fortunes, for their own self gain of financial or political power...
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@SuperUnemployable
"I disagree with the notion that non white Americans will always vote left, I think that comes down to education and outreach from those on the conservative side. "
Absolute hogwash. take a look at voting statistics for any number of years to see the same pattern. And lest we forget the endless " we arent racist" garbage on the right trying to win over voters who never have and never will vote conservative or right wing in large numbers. Just because you can win over 5-10% of a voting block doesnt mean the other 90% dont all vote in a monolith...
"I understand that our education system has become an indoctrination machine so that means it is up to everyday Americans to inform their kids and neighbors of what is true."
Thats a whole other limb of the problem with the marxist indoctrination into higher education, the public education sector, news media, and professional academia. Mccarthy did nothing wrong...
WE arent even allowed the truth inside our own country...
Secondly repealing an immigration act and sending hordes of people back to where they came from would not fix this problem it would only drive a deeper wedge."
Wrong. it will remove large numbers of unamerician " americians" who have no desire to be americians and just want to live off the success of my ancestors while turning my homeland into theirs...
"Along with that with all of the mixed couples and children how would we decipher who is non white or not?"
First off, that number is relatively low, second, mixed kids in general have it worse off because of a multitude of genetic, and social behaviors that i cant be bothered to get into, but are available if you can search them out. Why dont you ask the mixed folks that lived in haiti what happens to them when the non whites took over? oh right.... you cant because they were slaughtered after they were finished with whitey...
"Almost as hard to accomplish as the reparation idea there is way too much information to work through."
No, reparations as an idea is stupid because no one alive was subject to slavery and endless historical grievances will never solve anything. REPATRIATION IS possible and HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE... it isnt some impossible thing to do, its very possible, but not possible when they vote and have controlling interests in politics via lobby and interest groups with lots of funding. because of lobby groups ( spoiler warning, white people arent allowed to have advocacy groups or lobby groups because that is instant white supremacy and racist) white voters have no recourse to the endless waves of non whites, especially if they become minorities. ( already slated to become minority in 2040, children under 18, are already minority white, so thats gonna be fun soon)
"Along with that there is a generation of white Americans who have been convinced that socialism, communism, and intersectionality is what will fix everything."
Except it isnt an entire generation, its maybe half, but again, you arent counting for the non whites, who fall for the same shit just in larger percentages... hmmm almost like flooding a nation with low iq foreigners is a great way to take over a nation... hmmmm big think
"As far as the idea of genetics and IQ I'm not sold on that idea because if we are going that way I would argue Asian Americans tend to excel in the areas of STEM, medicine, and academia; would they be included in your plan to send non white Americans back?"
Yes, mostly because i shouldnt have to become a minority in my own nation. and last i checked, countries like china have massive cheating scandals, and have very low emotional scores, leading them to be very non sympathetic. besides, Asians already have home countries of their own, stop pouring into mine, taking up slots, and taking jobs away from, the rest of the Americans born here...
"I still hold to my point that what we are seeing happening today is made up of multiple factors: a hard shift in American culture and ideology, unchecked and illegal immigration and there are a few others that I haven't fully proven but have a hunch played a part."
Iv literally laid it out right in front of you and you are like " yeah well i dont really see it"
"looks like we will have to agree to disagree but I appreciate the conversation btw I am a black American and I can't stand what has happened to our nation in the last ten years."
last 10 years? good thing you havent been paying attention... this has been going on for well over 60 years my guy...
"The only way to possibly turn our nation back or at the least slow down its demise is for Americans that love the principles that made America great to band together and educate and fight back against those who would see to turn this nation into a third world dumpster fire.
"
Yeah so stop importing third world dumpster people and itll stop sliding further into a dumpster? maybe let the country return to its 90% white status? nope. cant do that now because millions of non white Americans vote, and they will vote in their own self interests, not in the self interest of white Americans. therefore as white Americans fall deeper and deeper into the minority, they will be treated worse and worse by the other ( minority) groups... just look at south africa and the farmers.... this is my future as a white man in my homeland, to be hunted and killed by people who have no reason to be there.....
im not looking forward to it, but i cant speak up because im white... anything i say against this is " white supremacy" and " racism" and " bigotry" and anything in support of whites is racist.... but we can have black groups Hispanic groups, Asian groups and everything else under the sun having advocacy groups, money pumped in from every sector, endless affirmative action from work, school, to colleges...
I guess whites are the only people who cant have a land to themselves.....
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@khayon4364
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people, an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
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"I explained to you why that's ridiculously wrong, and you can't handle it. "
No you didnt, that was why i responded the way i did
"Your article doesn't support your position"
My position is that guns save lives more often than they take them, this is supported by the link i sent
" Australia and Japan?"
Because they are Islands.........
"I've bested you in every conceivable way. Give up."
BAHAhahaha Yeah, sure bud
You seem to not only not understand firearms laws, firearms themselves, criminals, crime trends, or why Japan and Australia are different from the US, but you seem to think you have been right about everything you tried to say.....
you HAVE to be a troll at this point, 10/10 you got me
If not, please, articulate one change in any law that would stop any of the mass shootings or have any meaningful effect on gun crime
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"sigh"
ok
"More people died in the Parkland shooting than died in any shooting for any reason in Japan last year. That alone destroys your point."
That isnt and wasnt my point, you are deliberately misunderstanding it it must seem at this point....
33,636 deaths by gun
20,160 are suicides
16,128 are gang crime related deaths
that leaves 4,000 gun related deaths that arent suicides and arent gang related.
accidentals are between 500-1000 so lets say 500 for the sake of agrument
so 10% of gun deaths are non gang/suicide/accidental
US Firearm homicide rate is 10.45
japan firearm homicide rate is .06
so if we remove suicide gangs and accidentals, which is about 90% of firearm related deaths and that leaves us with roughly with firearm homicide rate of 1.045, which is pretty close to japan per 100k.. so im not that far off from what i stated..
The link i sent does say that, but it also says that 500k to 3m uses of self defense... which is what i was claiming, and you keep ignoring that fact.....
Because its easier to smuggle things over a land border than a sea border... thats why...
Hong kong is near the coast and its nearest land border is China.....
"Firearm ownership law in the People's Republic of China heavily regulates the ownership of firearms. Generally, private citizens are not allowed to possess firearms."
gee i wonder what the difference is
"I'm sorry, that you're having such a hard time accepting reality, but you need to grow up. You have continuously failed to prove even one of my points even remotely wrong."
Haha
Ignoring my points doesnt make them wrong you idiot
You havent said anything that refutes anything i have said and just continue to move the goalposts.
Everything i have said up until this point is documented weather you like it or not, it is reality.
"I have, you illiterate fuck. I have multiple times now. You are either fucking with me or are embarrassingly stupid."
No you actually havent, you just keep trying to ignore my points and discrediting my sources...
Now please tell me what law or regulation change would stop any of the previous mass shootings? or in any way would help gun related deaths?
You cant because you fundamentally lack an understanding of the problem and continue to ignore anything i have said.
Please, ACTUALLY prove me wrong
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i remove suicides and gang violence because they are the largest contributors to gun deaths and would be largely unaffected by gun legislation.
Also, i have been saying that the entire time, and i guess NOW you understand what i was talking about.
"Don't you find it incredibly disturbing that even when you remove all those factors, the gun deaths in this country still vastly outnumber that of Japan? The more stats you pull, the more you make me right."
No actually, because gun deaths =/= crime rate in general
Again, japan is an island, has a smaller population, and it is also 95%+ Japanese, meaning it is an ethnically homogeneous nation.
Japan and the US are not really comparable and ive tried to make that point clear.
"Gun control is fairly extensive in Mexico and Canada, so what's the issue with implementing it in America? And you're moving the goalposts AGAIN. First, Australia and Japan are islands, so that explains it. Then, Hong Kong doesn't apply either since it borders a country with gun control. Can you please just lay out your standards from the beginning and justify them at all?"
OK so mexico and canada share land borders with the US, so anything that affects one country indirectly effects another. that is why i point it out.
Moving the goalposts? please elaborate.
OK so if strict gun control enacted on china, which is the only country that borders hong kong, things trafficked through a land border would need to pass through 2 land borders, also, hong kong is a nation under the thumb of china in the first place.
Gun control clearly doesnt work in mexico, as it has a 16.35 per 100k murder rate and a firearm death rate of 11.23 ( US is 10.5) and a gun ownership rate far far lower than the US ( 105.5 guns per 100 residents) compared to mexico (15 per 100) so clearly the ownership of guns isnt the problem because mexico has fewer guns and just as gun death rate.
We dont have a mass shooting problem, you have yet to explain to me how we have a mass shooting problem.... Im not denying they happen, im denying it is a relevant and nation crippling problem that immediately needs to be addressed.
"You ignore essential results of a study just to push forward one talking point that was used as an example to show the substantial LACK of research done on the topic"
What? like seriously what the fuck are trying to tell me?
Are you telling me guns DONT save more lives than they take in the US every year? because i would tell you you are wrong....
I dont how a study saying guns save x lives per year, but we need to do more research on guns in general is the same thing as " nothing matters because of insufficient research"
"You're being a smug prick about all of this. Fuck off, you ignorant shit"
Hahaha fucking sweet sweet irony
"You have absolutely no understanding of this topic at all."
Hahahaaha seriously man, irony
"'I've answered you directly multiple times, and I'm not going to repeat myself for you"
Then you would have no problem copy and pasting what you have apparently said to me
"You're wrong. It's been demonstrated. It wasn't even difficult. You are by far the least informed person I've ever had an exchange with on this topic. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if you thought the earth was flat or that climate change isn't real. I mean do you even know what year it is? Fuck, man."
Whew lad
You havent proven me wrong, please show me how
The earth isnt flat, that is retarded
and do you mean natural climate change or anthropogenic climate change? because there is a difference....
I mean i know you think you are smarter than me or that you can articulate a point better, but i really dont see it, and if were being honest, this is probably the most in depth discussion ive had on youtube about the topic so i give you credit where its due, but you really are an insufferable cunt, you ignore everything i said and continue pretending like you know what the hell is going on.
so please, continue
Im glad to continue, if i can change one mind i think ive done all i can
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@danishdude6750
How is more government going to solve the problem of government not doing their jobs?
I'm not asking for more government. But why do you think less government will do the job?
Less overhead costing taxpayers
fewer pensions
fewer government expenditures
fewer regulatory bodies
less regulation
fewer licenses and prerequisites
etc etc
How is more government going to stop companies from lobbying politicians for favorable legislation?
How is less government going to thwart big businesses from destroying competition from small companies?
How does walmart and amazon get to where they are without government subsides or tax deals? its a shame all our manufacturing went overseas so theres literally zero competition inside the US
No one who makes that argument understands what they are talking about in the first place.
Is that a statement of fact, just an opinion, or an ad hominem? It is not an argument anyway.
No, you were asking if that was an argument i would make, i simply stated no one making that argument has a solid grasp on the material
How is more government going to stop corperations from lobbying?
How is less government going to stop corporations from taking business from small companies?
How is a large corporation going to " take" small ones? in what legal way would they be able to take something that is not theirs and it not be theft? Not like you are actually even answering my questions... How is more government going to stop them? why hasnt anything been done to stop them? oh they have incestuous power with lobby groups and politicians
How is more legislation and regulation going to help small business startups?
That very much depends on what the regulations are about. Who will protect small businesses from monopolies?
Why does a single owner car salesman need protection from cars.com or carmax? why do i need thousands of dollars of licensing and regulatory guidelines to sell used cars? not ecen gonna start with the taxes and fees of running a small business
How is more barriers to entry going to stop the monopolistic nature of these cooperation?
It depends on what those barriers are Are they set by the government or big business?
it doesnt matter when they are one in the same. When the big guys team up with the state to out compete the little guy. Why are you answering questions with more questions?
You only get monopolies like this because of government intervention on the behest of these same companies..
No, not at all. Monopolies can certainly come into place by market forces alone. Why do you think you have anti-trust laws? To protect competition from small businesses?
Weird how we havent used those anti trust laws on google amazon and walmart? considering walmart employees almost as many people as the government, i think there is a problem here, almost like gov and the business class team up to screw the little guy and skate on taxes...
Your solution is more government, more laws, more legislation... (IE more government control)
My solution is not more government. It is a more effective government working to help the people (not the corporations) who elected them. That is protecting individuals from big organizations, governmental and private.
so, you want more laws and regulations to " work to help the people who elect them" is that not more government?
Licensing and taxes cripple small business but large ones have no problems as they can absorb the costs, so any legislation will barely affect them but will cripple others who compete
Small businesses won't stand a goddamn chance against big corporations if you have a weak government.
`
They dont stand a chance RIGHT NOW!... wtf man, how is arguing for less government going to make it worse for small buisnesses? maybe if the government didnt micromanage every single thing in existence, it wouldnt be so hard...
You sound like you support corporate America. Do you?
Sounds like you dont understand whats actually going on, do you?
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@CharlesDarwinHimself
Firstly, you asked " what lies"
how does this end on people killing themselves?
destroying your nation from the inside out, shipping off low skill jobs, while importing skilled labor, all while squeezing your out in favor of various other ethnic advocacy groups, then demonizing you for doing the same. meanwhile, you, as white male, are statistically the only group of people in the country who are a net tax producer, meaning every single other metric are a net tax loss over time. so while at the same time all this is happening, you a re being taxed disproportionately to what you take out of the system. all the while being socially ostracized for speaking out against it
You think the rest of the world has it any better than that?
why does that matter in this context at all? the rest of the world is flooding into white western nations, so of course its not any better, its the fact that everyone else is bleeding into your own nations
Dude you people have it easy.
Yeah ok, sure keep thinking that
Also you just threw a bunch of sentences without proving them.
they arent just a " bunch of sentences" every single one of them is based on an actual lie
I do believe that some of them are lies.
Every single one is a lie
I don't understand however why would someone kill themselves over that?
imagine growing up in a world being told this is how it works, and these are the rules, only to find out as an adult that everything was bullshit, and no one plays by the rules
If you don't work then you'll not have anything that you desire in life.
Even if you work the government takes a third right off the bat, then you spend the rest of your life paying said government hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to give away to foreign nations, import foreigners into your cities and towns, line their own pockets, use homes and other properties as investments, and selling them to foreign investors causing a never ending increase in rent and home values, bombard you with propaganda every day in every facet of your life, every other group but straight white males get legs up in anything they want, from quotas, to lowered standards, to loan programs to tax breaks.
One day you wake up and realize the entire game is rigged against you, and no one cares
You are only proving my point:
not really
you're blaming everything but yourselves, you're saying that people literally END THEIR LIVES because a couple of blacks/browns entered their country or because they have been told that six million jews were killed or that the government uses the MK Ultra?
1965 90% white
2019 65% white
" a few blacks and browns"
why not look into yearly visas? why not look into everything i said? why are you pretending this isnt a massive fucking issue that everyone is ignoring?
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@deggy42 "Having more people in an area doesn't magically drive down wages - those extra people need other people to do and make things for them."
Actually you are wrong here
" The typical high school dropout earns about $25,000 annually. According to census data, immgrnts admitted in the past two decades lacking a high school diploma have increased the size of the low-skilled workforce by roughly 25 percent. As a result, the earnings of this particularly vulnerable group dropped by between $800 and $1,500 each year."
"A decade ago, Crider Inc., a chicken processing plant in Georgia, was raided by immgrtion agents, and 75 percent of its workforce vanished over a single weekend. Shortly after, Crider placed an ad in the local newspaper announcing job openings at higher wages. Similarly, the flood of recent news reports on the H1B visa program shows that firms will quickly dismiss their current tech workforce when they find cheaper immigrant workers."
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@GodOfOrphans
"You are so full of shit. You never bothered with good faith this entire discussion, you entered with mockery, continued with mockery, strawmanned my position repeatedly, rejected my attempts at an olive branch to try and dial back hostility and now you wanna claim good faith, GTF Outta here with that lying BS!"
I mocked the idea that talking about things in racial terms is " bad optics" and began the entire thing. If THATS how " bad faith" is in your mine, you must not have been on the internet very long... I strawmanned NOTHING, i explained how it wasnt a strawman, it was just the inevitable conclusion of your argument. Im sitting here trying to explain to you that the propaganda and brainwashing you talk about happening to the masses, has still effected YOU, and you cant seem to even grasp that concept, and are actively hostile towards me, and projecting it into how im talking to you. you refuse to grasp something im desperately trying to articulate to you in pain english, but you are so far indoctrinated into a certain worldview that we are speaking from two different words.
opening the floodgates for any and all dirty tricks and now you wanna invoke a double standard like your fellow leftist IdPol degenerates,
wtf are you even talking about? its like a bot ate a bunch of leftist buzzwords and tried to speak
"Your racial collectivisation efforts are a suicide mission"
You are literally describing a natural process, and describing it as suicidal You dont even realize it, precisely because you live in another world poisoned by propaganda. In group preference, and tribal nature, are natural functions of all beings. you are actively denying this, and fail to see that, like some post modern thinking, where humans are no longer animals somehow.
"hell you keep saying it's a lost cause to try and convince people with my far less extreme position"
because the same propaganda and brainwashing is still in you
"political demographic data.
ya really wanna go down that route? that one explicitly proves my point literally for decades, and your argument is " if we can convince a few more people" that the percentages will rise enough to matter.... it wont.
"But hey you can look forward to an eternity of I told you sos in Hell so at least there's that."
The most glorious irony here is knowing how many " i told you sos" I will be saying in another 30 years. I dont have to lift a finger, because i know exactly what's going to happen, because im not the one denying the reality of nature...
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@GodOfOrphans
"Restating an argument in t**d speak like that is mocking the speaker not just the argument"
Well because its so obviously apparent that both need to be mocked, because you keep proving my point..
"ergo yes you did enter the conversation in bad faith right from the start"
I strongly disagree
"you do not get to retroactively claim otherwise, that's gaslighting."
No, but thanks
"I can't even give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't know any better because that's one of the most banal and obvious forms of mockery around, children do that to mock each other without ever needing to be taught it it's so obvious, if you are really so ignorant as to not understand that, then how in the hell do you function in society at all.
Mocking strangers on the internet is just part of internet culture. you say something stupid, you get called out for it being stupid. dont sit there and act offended by it
"I'm not the one denying the reality of human nature, that's you."
Ironic and wonderfully placed " NO U"
"Tribalism is more than just race the fact that we are even having such an intense argument right now is even evidence of this because our philosophies differ so strongly that even though we presumably have race as a commonality we are still at each others throats, we are not of the same tribe, or how about the self hating W's that we seem to both agree exist, they're not part of either of our tribes despite having race in common."
LMAO for real? i vehemently disagree with large chunks of my family for ideological reasons all the time, this doesnt debunk anything i said whatsoever, we are still of the same tribe, and your argument sounds like reaching...
"I'm saying tribalism is not purely racial, it can have a racial component but race =/= tribe"
Except in 99.99% of cases this is reality. Non related human groups blending and assimilating into other groups does not disprove the existence of both groups as different tribes.
"you say I'm denying nature for pointing the emprically observable and f*ing obvious fact that it is not as simple as race=tribe."
Except its true 99.9% of the time. like the existence of male and female as different groups. pointing out that non binary weirdos and the rest of the alphabet gang exist, doesnt destroy the existence of the two genders that exist... exceptions and rules and whatnot
"Tribe can be based on hobby, identity markers, religion, political affiliation, career, family including found family, etc"
No. Liking television shows, and having the same political affiliation are not like " tribes" extended family, cousins aunts uncles, distant relatives are family and are classified as a tribe... Just because a bunch of random people have a thing in common, doesnt make them a tribe...
"Which tribal affiliation is going to be most salient/most important is going to vary wildly from person to person and even situationally"
Which has what bearing on anything i said? not identifying with your tribe doesnt mean your tribe doesnt exist.
"Of course you just ignore all this easily observable nuance and just go race=tribe, and then project your denial of reality onto me, by strawmanning me AGAIN, saying that somehow my rejection of identity politics means I don't believe in tribalism beacause of post modernism when at no point did I say that, it's also a false dichotomy fallacy by trying to make the two mutually inclusive when they aren't, and throwing in ad hominems calling me brainwashed for good measure, in short your nuance blindness is showing again via a logical fallacy four bagger."
Run on sentence beside the point. you arent making any arguments that debunk anything i said. this is just showing me you have no idea what im talking about. You can hurl logical fallacy accusations at me, but it doesnt change anything i said. You ignore the very real tribal nature of humans ( which are animals by the way) and insist on some understanding that tribes can be anything and have nothing to do with heritage or family. which is clearly incorrect.
my rejection of identity politics means I don't believe in tribalism beacause of post modernism when at no point did I say that"
you dont have to say that, i can infer that by reading your responses
"Now will you just give it a rest, this is tedious, and pointless neither of us will convince the other that's abundantly clear"
said the guy denying reality lol
"I only continue out of obligation as beleive BS ignored is BS spread so I can't leave your nonsense misrepresentations of me unadressed"
Dude what the fck are you talking about. you not understanding what im telling you doesnt make me wrong...
"ignoring the cancer spreading from the univerisities is why we're in this hellworld in the first place after all"
Ironically, if you listened to people like me 30 40 years ago, they dont you this exact thing was going to happen.. almost like what i say has some merit, and weight in the real world... but noooo its just BS and m wrong and mean and racist..
"You're not having any fun, I'm not having any fun, there's nothing for either of us to learn or gain from this anymore"
I mean i have fun talking about sht on YT all th time, sorry its not fun for you
You arent even trying to grasp what im trying to tell you, because you are so far wrapped up in the world created by post modernists, that natural reality is somehow wrong, and anything can be fixed if we just had similar hobbies or believed in the same skydaddy... spoiler, it doesnt work out
"I have more important things to do than continue this excercise in futility and I'd like to think you do as well."
I mean im not ignoring reality, but thats not my problem
"We also still have one common enemy that we hate more than each other at least I would hope and we should be saving our energy for that"
Yeah 100% guarantee its a different enemy than you thin from me. but go on, who is the common enemy?
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@GodOfOrphans
"I can boil that entire tirade of yours down to one word it's so deluded, STRAWMAN"
Yeah, i mean nothing like calling my response a thing, then thats it. defeated. owned, crushed..... except its not, and repeating it over and over again doesnt change that
"You don't actually understand any of what I actually believe and have actually been trying to convey so you just label me a wokists because it's easier to believe anyone who disagrees with your my way or the highway/if you aren't with us you're against us dogmatic dogshit is some kind of leftist ideologue than the simple truth that people can disagree with you and not be Marxists, more than that people can disagree with you and hate Marxists more than anything else"
First off, you need to work on your run on sentences, it makes it really annoying to read. Secondly, im not labeling you wokest (marxists), that would be a strawman, im saying you are fighting a battle using the rules laid out by the wokests (marxists), and you sit there and tell me thats not what you are doing, then you explain what you are doing, and its a roundabout way to just say what i said. When you allow them (marxists) to control the rules of engagement through propaganda, that is exactly what is going on. a distortion of your own thoughts based on the indoctrination of others. your mental gymnastics are pretty great.
"I can believe I'm possibly doing a poor job conveying things but the level of ignorance and misrepresentation you display can only be achieved willfully. So even I was the most articulate person around it wouldn't mean shit on account of your willfull ignorance and need to bully people into agreeing with you, which never works btw that just makes people dig in their heels and outright ignore anything they might actually agree on out of anger, if you knew anything about human nature you would understand this!"
This is a long winded run on sentence that basically says " im right you are wrong, i cant believe you cant see this you are dumb"
"if you knew anything about human nature you would understand this"
Ironic
"Blatant double standard on your part as when I call you out for saying stupid shit and misrepresenting me you get all offended and such but apparrently I'm not allowed to do the same, blatant shameless hypocrisy at it's finest on display
Uhh me opening with an insult and having a dialogue is different than repeatedly adhomming, insulting, and denigrating the intelligence of the other person.. but go off champ, im enjoying this
"Civil discourse is also part of internet culture there's no rule that says things must devolve into pissing matches, this thread was civil despite disagreement until you came along and derailed it."
No, not really
"you dont have to say that, i can infer that by reading your responses" Oh so you're a mind reader now are you. You are the arbiter of intent and free will be damned./sarcasm.
LOL or i can read, and understand context clues, but yeah im " reading your mind" by making assumptions of your thought process based on the way you talk and what you say, thats crazy talk.... wow dude
"You do not decide what my intentions and thought processees are you subhuman, gaslighting troglodyte, take you god complex and shove it"
L O L !
"The common enemy is wokists you imbecile! I've said as much how many times now?"
Yeah and how many times have i articulated that you are ceding ground to them by having dialogue based on reactions that their propaganda has. literally the thing ive said repeatedly over and over again that you deny, then explains it in a roundabout way, that effectively is what i said but with more words...
"I've known literal t*rds that are quicker on the uptake and with better info retention than you, that's not a joke or an empty insult either, I'm being completely literal and completely serious."
Again the irony is not lost on me
"Why are you wasting so much energy fighting libertarians instead of the commie vermin who as you say want to exterminate you and your entire race"
because lolbertarians are why we have commies in the first place dude, thats what i keep trying to tell you, but you just mental gymnastics your way out of coherent thoughts....
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@GodOfOrphans "You're ones who have completely given up the dream of a free society, the dream of Western Civilization, you're trying to fight their communist ethnonationilism with more ethnonationalism and it won't work it will implode probably take a chunk out of our movement with it and give the enemy a free ammo resupply."
dude are you even listening to yourself? you need some help, let me help you
"nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918."
so you are saying ethnonationalism, but what you are effectively saying is national nationalism... which is redundant, and completely opposite of the " commies" which would be global communists. these are the no borders types of people... these are not ethnonats. the ethnic grouping of commies has more to do with the anti white nature of the discussion than it does " racial nationalism" of non whites
"You are the ones who are feeding into the enemy and you are too ideologically possessed and just plain dumb to see it!"
the irony is so think, i can taste
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@GodOfOrphans
"If you don't like me repeatedly calling out your strawmanning than stop fucking strawmanning, make repetitive arguments get repettitive replys it's not that complicated! "
Look dude, im not strawmanning you. ive repeatedly explained how im not strawmanning you. fcking stop
"Uhh me opening with an insult and having a dialogue is different" so you admit to opening with an insult, and then say it's different when you do it yeah sure, whatever, fucking hypocrite."
A sarcastic internet joke to entice you to reply totally didnt do exactly what it was intended to do? stop dude, you think too highly of yourself
"Further context doesn't make it any better either as your premise is fundamentally broken, it is fundamentally an it's okay when I do it argument and there's no coming back from that."
Its not, an opening move to draw in replies is being compared to repeated and angry insults endlessly as the conversation continues cmon dude be real...
"Here's the problem with your constant assertion that I'm "ceding ground" or "letting the enemy define rules of engagement" fundamentally if I do ANYTHING as a reaction to what they do other than agree with your white identitarianism I'm "ceding ground" so you're essentially trying to trap me using a kind of motte and bailey fallacy"
Because you are living inside this false worldview that identitatinism = marxism. THAT is my point, you dont even have to agree with white identitarinaism, you just need to admit that you are functioning within this marxist worldview without even seeing it
"You take the fact that I hate the globalist commies, (motte) and then say if I want to not be a cVck to those commies I must become a white racial identitarian (bailey)"
No, this is you fundamentally not understanding what is being told to you.
"I fundamentally reject that entire argument"
Its funny because thats not the argument im making
"there are ways to fight this evil without resorting to more identitarianism."
and here we circle back to the point you cant grasp... any identiratiasm = marxism to you. this is the marxist fundamentally changing your worldview and acting inside fo it. you still cant see it and you are getting more irrationally angry about an argument on the internet
"Moreover I feel that they've been boogeymanning whitey in the hopes of essentially having people radicalize along racial identitarian lines out of spite for them. So that they can then use the newly radicalised opposition as justification to the masses to start wholesale open genocide and persecution of political dissidents, and I'm talking gulags not just deplatforming"
and MY point is THAT IS COMING REAGARDLESS... this is the part you arent getting. you seem to think by not using any identitarinasim and stacking to individualism and ideology is the solution, but that is unironically been the status quo for decades and it hasnt worked. South African farmers is the future in the US and the rest of the anglosphere
"That's what I mean when I say it will backfire, and that it is playing into the enemies hands"
He says while continuing the path that has led to the enemies grown this strong over recent decades...
"To go back a bit and elaborate further on why I just reject the argument itself, it's also false choice/false dichotomy it doesn't acknowledge the possibility of other solutions"
Its not a false dichotomy, but you cant grasp that
"The reason I relate it to having the same energy so to speak as the wokists is I have legitimately seen Marxist use the same false dichotomy motte and bailey to try and psychologically trap people into agreeing with communism"
Thats not what im doing
"What they'll do is they'll say some kind of no shit sherlock flaw with capitalism or just say it isn't perfect, something everyone can agree on for the most part, (motte) and then say if you want to fix it the only solution is Communism (bailey), while rejecting any attempts at alternative solutions or pointing out obvious flaws with communism and how it doesn't actually work to preserve the false choice framing"
Dude, you arent even grasping what im telling you
"They also do the same argument with race relations and other idpol stuff too, "If you don't want to be racist you must support CRT" that sort of thing"
No, again you arent grasping what im telling you
"Also the fact that modern communism has basically become identitarian and your postion is identitarian, that's the other reason I say they have the same energy."
And we circle RIGHT back to the point i made in the beginning that you FAIL to see...
"To try and give a TL;DR for this it would be, I reject being pigeonholed and any such arguments that try and do so as well as all forms of identitarian collectivism, doesn't matter who from or for what reason."
You not getting the argument isnt being pigeon holed dude... stop
"If nothing else I hope this properly articulates my position and why I take issue with yours as well as the framing of your argument."
It has become abundantly clear you have zero desire to rationalize anything i have said
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@GodOfOrphans
"The hostility is because you fucking poisoned the well right out of the gate by insulting me, you think I'm just supposed to take that lying down?"
Didn't poison the well, and im pretty sure you are just throwing shit out to see if ill call you out on it
"What the fuck is wrong with you?! You then continued the insults civcvck, brainwashed, various insults to my intelligence, general condescending tone etc. so of course I'm going to bite back with hostility to reflect what has been shown to me"
I mean thats what you are. im trying to explain things to you and it goes right over your head...
"I don't believe in the sort of RINOcvck lose gracefully crap."
You believe in the " we can just change peoples minds" and " demographic change isnt going to affect the country"
"Civility is nice but it only works when all parties agree to and strictly adhere to it, once it's broken all bets are off."
Right, so when millions and millions of foreigners flood into the nation without being asked, rule of law and civility can go out the window? great, when can we sign you up for removal squads?
"Trying to still be civil when the other interlocutors have no interest in doing so doesn't work it just makes one look weak and lose face"
Maybe be less obtuse, and angry?
"I assure the self reflection is there I actually self reflect before during and after each post. In fact I do it pretty much 24/7 and not always deliberately, there's just no off button to my thoughts, I'm always self evaluating. It doesn't come across in text because doing so is a sign of weakness, one needs to project confidence at all times in an argument or lose face."
wow
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@GodOfOrphans
"Why do I need to rationalize anything you just said, when everything you said is just wrong?!"
Well, this would mean you would actually have to understand and think about what ive said instead of just saying no you are wrong
"I've tried rephrasing things so many different ways and you still don't get it which again I can only really chalk up to willfull ignorance or total ideological possession at this point, garden variety stupididy is rarely if ever this stubborn. I was hoping that at the very least I could achieve some level of mutual understanding, agreement was never an option but hopefully I could at least achieve understanding."
LOL this is because you arent even understanding what im saying to you.
"Look for a bit of clarification I'm not saying all identitarianism is marxist, what I am saying is that identitarianism and marxism both spring from the same rotten root framework of authoritarian collectivism okay, got that?"
No, the didnt, and YOU dont get it.
"So while they aren't the same they are similar in key ways because they both spring from authoritarian collectivism. Is that clear enough for you?!"
No, because saying something doesnt make it true. you are literally letting marxism control how you even talk about the issues. "identitarianism is from the same root as marxism" no its not.
"Your entire argument comes from a false dichotomy framework, eveything that disagrees with you is either marxism or people brainwashed by marxist psy ops."
Yeah unless the thing we are disagreeing on is directly related to marxist propaganda, but go off some more about something you are clearly not grasping. The fact that you think identitarianisms roots is is authoritative collectivist behavior strange
"You know what it's called when you mislabel people into a position they don't actually hold? It's called Strawmanning you dumbass! You're also trying to force things into overly rigid labels which is pigeonholing"
wow so telling me im arguing the same things as marxists is strawmaninng wonderful. stop doing it and try actually grasping what im trying to articulate to you instead of triple and quadrupling down on your individualism
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@GodOfOrphans
"Dude I understand your argument I just fundamentally and irrevocably disagree with it, alright, disagreement does not mean I don't get it. Learn the difference!
Buddy, if you just " disagreed" it would be one thing, but you arent even comprehending what im saying, and then telling me in wrong
"That said it's clear that you don't even understand my position given how you haven't made a single reply that isn't full of ad hominems and misrepresentations."
This is hilarious at this point. its pure projection, and its why i still bother replying...
"I doubt you'd agree regardless but it's clear that you don't even understand it."
Yeah, thats it, its not you not grasping what im telling you, then arguing with based off of a lack of understanding of what i said in the first place is a great way to establish how well understood something is
"I'm pretty much out of ideas as to how to rephrase it and it's doubtful it would matter even if I did, on account of your willfull ignorance."
Cool, maybe grasp what IM telling you so we can go somewhere with this
"Now will you just piss off?! I've got more important things to do than argue with an idiot all day!"
No you dont
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@KnockManJo
"Your first huge mistake is assuming they all are exactly the same by calling them "people like that", and dismissing their individuality and nuanced situation"
so people who believe the same thing cant be addressed as a group of people believing the same thing because individualism and nuance? that is entirely pointless
your second mistake is going for the unrealistic worst case scenario by listing people based on legal crimes.
What are you talking about?
What do you think " minor attracted person" stands for? I wouldnt exactly call the next section of the slop we are arriving at as " worst case scenario" we are already most of the way there
"You're also assuming that they have all the same level of intensity in their opinions, and that they can't change or at least be a little more open to new possibilities.
"
The point is, if someone is already rationalizing the idea of 8 month abortions, trans 3 year olds with puberty blockers, and " gender is a social construct" are already people who wont listen to rational thought, and are already living inside their own group think. Their " intensity" doesnt matter as long as it crosses the threshold to vote, and they have already demonstrated that their minds will not be changed by rationalizing opinions, that just a few years ago would be considered crazy and impossible. yet here we are.
"Assumptions, generalizations, projection of your worst idea of them and lack of interest for nuanced situations and grey areas are certain to provide a very low quality interaction; but I get it, it's very hard when you are convinced you have the moral absolute; especially if they are as convinced as you are of theirs. At that point you can try a different approach, or keep doing what you're doing if you think there's no other possible way other than avversion to deal with it."
How do you rationalize with a person who doesnt view an unborn child as having its own right to life? how do you convince someone who thinks giving prepubescents children hormone blockers is empowering that its a terrible idea? If their minds possessed the capacity to be changed, the wouldnt have those opinions to begin with.
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@TriscoG
Im being lazy so im citing wikipedia
"Payne's definition of fascism focuses on three concepts"
"Fascist negations" – anti-liberalism, anti-communism, and anti-conservatism.
These people who run these companies and the lobbyists involved, nor the politicians i see as any of these. They all seem to align to Kleptocracy.
"Fascist goals" – the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure and to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture, and the expansion of the nation into an empire.
These people arent nationalistic, they sell out the nation constantly. they are globalist in nature
Fascist style" – a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth, and charismatic authoritarian leadership.
yeah todays western climate despises masculinity, constantly spouts non violence and peace, and mostly are puppeted along by the old guard
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@eggynack "Immigrant workers increased US GDP by about 1.7 trillion, or 10.7% in 2013. The vast bulk of this gain went to the immigrants themselves. Only 2% went to natives.
For native-born Americans, immigration s major impact is distributional: It lowers the wages of native born workers and raises the income of their employers and other upper income natives who derive disproportionate share of their income from capital gains, stock options and other non-wage income. By increasing the number of workers in the economy, immigration lowers the wages of native born workers. At the same time however native born employers gain from immigration because they can now hire workers at lower wages. Native born consumers also gain , especially the wealthy. Similarly natives who derive most of their income from dividends, capital gains, and other non wage income gain as immigration drives up corporates profits. Immigrations biggest winners then, at least among us natives, are the wealthy, while its biggest losers are disproportionally found among the nations poor and middle class. Clearly immigration exacerbates the economic divide of the have and the have nots. Current levels of over one million legal admissions per year, and defacto amnesty and non enforcement policies that serve to protect those aliens who are here unlawfully are only placing greater economic strain on those citizens who can afford it least. "
why does it matter? Im closer in my beliefs to the founders of my nation than you are... you subversive
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@MrChris7582 My original comment was deleted
" look up critical theory (a Marxist doctrine made by the nazis in the Frankfurt school in germany under the notsees) "
Marxism is inherently Jish by its creation. Blaming germany for the work of Js is dishonest and historically illiterate
"there is no where that ever says Htlr was anti Marxism where are you even getting that from"
"Htlr became impressed with founder Anton Drexler's antisemitic, nationalist, anti-capitalist and anti-Marxist ideas"
"He gained notoriety for his rowdy polemic speeches against the Treaty of Versailles, rival politicians and especially against Marxists and Js.[39] "
"Htlr was a pan-Germanic nationalist whose ideology was built around a philosophically authoritarian, anti-Marxist, antisemitic and anti-democratic worldview."
"In the years 1913 and 1914 I expressed my opinion for the first time in various circles, some of which are now members of the National Socialist Movement, that the problem of how the future of the German nation can be secured is the problem of how Marxism can be [deleted]"
"Later in his seminal tome, Htlr advocated for "the destruction of Marxism in all its shapes and forms".[119] According to Htlr, Marxism was a Jsh strategy to subjugate Germany and the world and saw Marxism as a mental and political form of slavery.[120] From Htlr's vantage point, Bolsheviks existed to serve "Jsh international finance""
"Biographer Alan Bullock avows Htlr "laid great stress" on the need to concentrate on a single enemy, an enemy he lumps together as "Marxism and the J""
You are historically illiterate and brainwashed. even Wikipedia disagrees with you
"the word notsee directly translates to German workers socialist party"
No it doesnt. that word was used as a derogatory term by Germanys enemies... you know nothing of which you speak
"what your saying is laughably wrong"
The irony is thick as oatmeal bro. you are historically illiterate
"as it stands now anyone can google critical race theory see that I am right and that it was made as a marxist doctrine at the Frankfort school in the 1930s under nazi occupation."
And it was made by marxists. Jish marxists. the entire history of marxism is Jish.
"I won that debate regardless of spelling mistakes and grammar."
you got BTFO'd so hard i dont think you'll even reply
"anyone can look up htlrs speeches and easily see he kept talking about socialism and never once mentions fascism at all ever"
He spend so much time EXPLICILTY being anti marx and against Marxism but you are apparently too incapable to look that up yourself... JFC man
Enjoy your L, maybe youll humble yourself before speaking so adamantly about a subject you know nothing about
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@MrChris7582 My original comment was deleted
" look up critical theory (a Marxist doctrine made by the nazis in the Frankfurt school in germany under the notsees) "
Marxism is inherently Jish by its creation. Blaming germany for the work of Js is dishonest and historically illiterate
"there is no where that ever says Htlr was anti Marxism where are you even getting that from"
"Htlr became impressed with founder Anton Drexler's antisemitic, nationalist, anti-capitalist and anti-Marxist ideas"
"He gained notoriety for his rowdy polemic speeches against the Treaty of Versailles, rival politicians and especially against Marxists and Js.[39] "
"Htlr was a pan-Germanic nationalist whose ideology was built around a philosophically authoritarian, anti-Marxist, antisemitic and anti-democratic worldview."
"In the years 1913 and 1914 I expressed my opinion for the first time in various circles, some of which are now members of the National Socialist Movement, that the problem of how the future of the German nation can be secured is the problem of how Marxism can be [deleted]"
"Later in his seminal tome, Htlr advocated for "the destruction of Marxism in all its shapes and forms".[119] According to Htlr, Marxism was a Jsh strategy to subjugate Germany and the world and saw Marxism as a mental and political form of slavery.[120] From Htlr's vantage point, Bolsheviks existed to serve "Jsh international finance""
"Biographer Alan Bullock avows Htlr "laid great stress" on the need to concentrate on a single enemy, an enemy he lumps together as "Marxism and the J""
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@Raylan Givens
I see you deleted all your comments...
"Let me guess your argument is that Nationalism is a form of collectivism? Well that's only if your argument is based on ethno-nationalism. Nationalism is simply putting one's nation first. In the case of the US as there is no shared ethnic or racial characteristics the only shared thing we have as a community is our Constitution"
Except you would be wrong in the fact that the US does in fact have a shared ethnic and racial ancestry. White Europeans
Need i inform you the origin of the word " nation"
*c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.*
"And our Constitution exists to provide liberty for the individual."
Of course it does, because collectives exist, and importing endless numbers of people different than the one that crafted such nation will all bein a collective different than the one who crafted such individualism...
"Individuals working together to protect each individual's freedom and liberty is not a form of collectivism."
Yes, it is
"Collectivism is the idea that whatever the supposed collective good is should be pursued even if at the expense of the individual because the collective matters the most."
So if all these individuals allow endless numbers of "other" who DO collectivize separately, then vote in your " individualistic" society. what then?
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Jayanga S no i dont listen to the MSM, that doesnt negate the effects of propaganda and lies... stop pretending that it isnt an issue by being dishonest about it.
"baby making is a physical process, nothing prevents you to do it"
Yes but propaganda affects everyone else, raising children costs money, and with endless leg ups for non whites, it puts whites at a distinct disadvantage, ( they pay for it all via taxation whether we want to or not)
A very small fraction of each group commit crimes, you use it as an excuse to call everyone a danger out to get you.
FBI crime stats and interracial offences disagree with your assertion.
"this is going to end violently", there goes your actual intentions.
Jesus christ dude, me pointing out the inevitable doesnt mean i want it.. you think i want more bloodshed? more innocent lives lost for nothing? you assuming this of me reveals YOUR intentions...
I'm not sure what you mean by mass repatriation.
if you dont know what the word repatriation means, you are not educated enough on the topics to continue arguing with people here...
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@captainfreedom3649 really? every single one of them? even if its in your country? even if it actually doesnt benefit the people?
I dont know, why not elaborate? you seem to be creating a scenario that doesnt exist to make a point
well they certainly tell more about hk than the yellow vests in france.
So the yellow vests are the good guys and the HK protesters are the bad guys for what reason?
"And do what? let them continue doing what they were already doing?
"
dont know what u mean.
existing as an entity that isnt china?
"so because they are small means they cant have independence from larger groups?
"
not only that, hk has no army. they depend on the PLA to defend them. those capitalist city states like hk and singapur belong to the financal elite anyway.
so i guess the people who were born and live there have no say what goes on in the lands they were born into? seems pretty fucking lame if you ask me
"What genocide are you talking about fam? you sound like you dont even know what you are trying to talk about"
remember when us sanctions crippled Iraq so much that 500 000 children died?
"Initially the UN Security Council imposed stringent economic sanctions on Iraq by adopting and enforcing United Nations Security Council Resolution 661"
Ohhh bad USA, bad, UN good, good UN
do I have to remind you of what madeleine albright said when she was asked wether it was worth it? and lets not forget the two iraq wars, which add even more hundreds of thousands.... how about the bombing of serbia 1999? when they killed like 2000 civillians, and one them freedom bombs even hit a CHINESE EMBASSY. if these aint genocides fam, I dont know what is. lets see when chinas last war was.... it was 40 years ago, against vietnam, and they lost.
Yeah i dont see how thats my problem as i wasnt able to vote then, and im failry certian the US government is now a hostile power, but thats just my opinion living there my whole life... Yeah i totally wanted my government to go bomb sand people in the desert for freedums
did it ever occur to you, that propaganda endorsing the war and enabling my government do do what it did is proving my point that the average us citizen has zero control over the federal government?
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@stevennagy5351
so you think independence is always beneficial for everyone? lets take a look on ukraine, ............it simply became a joke state run by the intl financal mafia who sucked it dry. independence movement isnt always a good thing for the people. dont generalize this, there are always many other factors.
"became a joke state run by the intl financal mafia who sucked it dry."
and what do you think they are doing in the USA? and literally every other country connected to international banking finance.... Id rather die a free man rather than live a slave? i dunno, if they couldnt hack it doesnt mean it shouldnt be done at all ever?
I just mentioned that because it shows on which side the msm stays. just take the opposite of the msm say and it will likely be true. remember what CIA director william casey said: "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false""
Yeah and yet i dont hear much about the yellow vests nor do i hear about these protests in msm, but alright.
by your logic the whole world is pretty fucking lame because almost everywhere people cant just secede from a country.
Ok no it wouldnt, but alright. Sort of the entire point of 'states' but the federal gov doesnt seem to care about that part, so i guess its all fucked
"Ohhh bad USA, bad, UN good, good UN"
oh I almost forgot... looks like murica was fucking innocent all the time... seriously, what....... are you even trying to say? the un is just a tool to legitimize us wars...
Yeah it sucks, what do you want me to do about it?
it worked in 1950 with korea and in 1990 because at the time us had no enemys in the security council anymore.
like they care about permission from the council, looks like they didnt need that in 2003. I wonder on whom you blame that one... it wasnt the un who used all that depleted uranium.
I dunno, my government is in the pocket of international bankers and shit, how is that my fault?
"Yeah i dont see how thats my problem as i wasnt able to vote then"
news flash: no one cares for your vote, they do what is profitable.
funny how they werent actually sand people before the us bombed them: "By the end of the 1970’s Iraq had received an award from UNESCO for its campaign to eradicate illiteracy" the standard of living was pretty high by 1989... yeah... now they are sand people but who wouldnt be after that.
Yeah and islam does wonders to the places it grows, again, how is an out of control government my fault? and if all the governments are corrupt, and all revolution is scripted what the fuckare you even trying to say?
yes of course it did. my only problem is that you were actually defending them by distracting from it, either on purpose or due to ignorance. otherwise you wouldnt say that china meddles everywhere or ignoring all the signs for the hk riots being a color revolution.
If every revolution is a color revolution, what is the solution to ever growing corrupt governments and forceful immigration destroying countries for a small number of financial elites?
I dont know what your issue is
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@skitidet4302
The federal reserve and government intervention
No, it happens because most things/people can be influenced if not outright bought with money. This happens regardless if the rich has a federal reserve or government under their thumb, those institutions just help to expedite the process by giving monied interests more power to influence the system in their favor.
OK so unless you are going to tell me we need a moneyless system, im gonna have to stop you there and say that wont work either.
"You mean the government in bed with corrupt multinationals create legislation that controls market forces and destroys competition? "
Yes, when the rich become powerful enough to outright control governments and other powerful institutions like guilds, unions, churches and the media, all control is lost.
Right, but MY point is they only GOT that rich by BEING corrupt... the system that takes place in is irrelevant when the ones making the rules are the ones benefitting from them.
"From that point on, multinational corporations and the billionaires that run them rule the world, they are the true sovereigns and nation states are just their subjects that has to fight among each-other for scraps. This is the endstate of capitalism that last until the people rise up and take back the world from these scheming exploiters"
Capitalism has nothing to do with this, and this exact thing would happen under any other nonsense system you come up with because the problem is the governments and the power they wield. If you make the rules who cares what system you use?
"What? How does this even make sense in your head?"
Let me give you an example. How do you make more money when the markets are already saturated? You open up a new market! There are plenty of markets that are very profitable just waiting to be exploited, things like prostitution, pornography, drugs and human trafficking and so on, the thing is that those markets are immoral so first they need to erode away morality to open up these markets in order to exploit them for profit. Do you think a virtual meat market like Tinder or onlyfans would have been socially acceptable 50 years ago? NO! That businesses model only became viable once morality has been sufficiently eroded.
Yeah but YOU attribute that to capitalism, and still existed 50 years ago, while Im trying to articulate that the system has nothing to do with it, the moral corruption comes from this liberal lefty live and let live garbage. you think capitalism is what manipulates social constructs and group think? no, thats the media and Hollywood, i wonder which group of people are over represented in those...
"Because " capitalism" to you is the decades of government manipulation of finance and markets, while globalizing and offshoring to keep their power... This has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with crony business practices, corrupt governments, and a global clique of internationalists who have zero problems with nation destroying. "
No, you got it backwards, it's not the government doing it, it's just a pawn. The governments are just puppets for international finance system that runs the world. Democracy has always been a scam, it's just a clever way for the oligarchs to set up an oligarchy that masquerades as the will of the people and thus legitimizes their oppressive rule.
The international finance system cant do anything until it manipulated a government in the first place, and by that point its irrelevant... im arguing the same thing, except you call it capitalism, missing the point. " making money" isnt the problem, its " who controls the money, who controls the laws, who controls the media"
"What the hell was that last bit about? doesnt really follow and makes no sense"
I'm talking about religions and how they sorta predicted/foreshadowed all of this. Many religions, especially Indo-European pagan religions believed in cyclical history where the ages would create more wealth than the last but it would corrupt the hearts of men and turn them in to immoral people. It would culminate in a final age called the dark age/the age of iron/Kali Yuga where money, lust, greed, treachery and materialism would completely corrupt the human spirit. Then it would end with an apocalyptic event like Ragnarök or Krishna coming down to earth and purging all the evil so a new era can begin anew once the filth has been burned away.
so religion aside, you seem to miss the part where history IS cyclical, and there is a group of people who are manipulating that. and it has nothing to do with " capitalism"
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@skitidet4302
the " capitalist" cant enslave the state unless the state is already corrupt. how else do these mega nationals get their financial arrangements? favorable legislation
'How would you keep the merchant cast and especially that special ethnic group in check without using state power? I dare you to try to explain that.'
lol cant say that, no way the comment would stay up haha. but you are not going to do this with the state, because the state is already under control. you cant beat them when they control the system used to beat them.
'True, but that group is not our kin so projecting our duties and responsibilities on to them is irrational.'
Right, and they control the levers of the mechanisms that both control legislation, finance, education, media and entertainment industries. Trying to do anything within the confines of their system is always a fruitless effort
'A healthy system is a system in which the powers work together in harmony for the common good of their people, this tend to happen when their interests mostly align'
cant have that with the tribe
'If one of the institutions becomes corrupt and pursues their own interests at the expense of everyone else, it should be purged and if it can't be purged in time it will have the blame at it's feet so it tend to be overthrown eventually. '
Other than watering the tree of liberty none of that will happen, because the media education institutions, etc etc etc can control the perception of reality
'Capitalism is the main force behind the current order. It is what upholds and perpetuates ideologies like liberalism, democracy, globalism, universalism, materialism, humanism, egalitarianism etc because it needs them to survive and grow.'
Yeah still not explaining how capitalism is at fault here... its abundantly clear that " capitalism" means nothing when you control everything else, so blaming capitalism makes no sense
'As for the question of who/what created capitalism, the process has existed since before recorded history when people started trading for profit instead of necessity, but the system only came in to effect when the process of capitalism became a driving force if not the driving force of society.'
You say this as if controlling the perceived reality of the masses has no effect on what drives society...
'That's not capitalism. Capitalism is money making money, that is making money without labor, so literally the opposite of what you are talking about.'
'It has everything to do with Capitalism. The whole system of control and deception is set up by and for the elites that run the capitalist system. You fail to see the mechanics of the system and just blame it on a certain group. Sure that group is very influential and a main player in the capitalist system of control, but that system is so flawed I can criticize it without even bringing up that group.'
And that literally can only happen when you have control over the money supply, the legislation, media, and legal institutions and therefore has nothing to do with capitalism. Words mean nothing when you control the context. what you keep describing literally cannot happen without the tribe
the moral degradation isnt from markets, its from the media industry. You are arguing its capitalism doing this, but its the other way around, its the tribe corrupting and using capitalism as a vehicle. Any amount of free trade will always turn into what you think is capitalism. If i start a business im not going to bust my back for decades unless there is financial incentive for me to do so.
'How did you wake up to the ethnic problem and not understand anything of the main tool/system they used to enslave us?"'
Right, capitalism is a tool, not the problem. we can be enslaved by whatever term or system you want, its still exactly the same. stating " capitalism " is how they gain their power is laughable because that implies that this cabal isnt older than the USA... You think they needed "capitalism" when they instituted the federal reserve? no, they were already there
'It boggles the mind. How do you think they accumulated that power? Foreskin sacrificing blood magic? '
How should i know? this cabal is older than everyone currently running it and they had power well over 200 years ago
'Yes the current system is rotten through and through and should not be given any more power, but the only thing that could prevent this from happening is a strong state to protect it's people. '
Ok, so anything you do while inside said system wont work
'If you tear down the rotten system and do not set up a strong state as a guardian to prevent the system from becoming rotten again, you will soon find yourself knee deep in the same rot again."
Great, obviously, how does one tear down a system when we the people have no means to do so?
So since the hero failed to save the world we should just never try to be heroic again? We should just let the world fall deeper and deeper into darkness because last time we failed? This is insane.
Dont know where you get that from... what is your solution? because " capitalism bad" isnt really an answer
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@Gnerko123
was busy today and replying to each comment one at a time would have been annoying
"One could argue that a modern car where you only have to replace components now and then is more repairable than an older car which keeps on rusting. Changing a component is easier than bodywork, as long as the part is avaibalbe of course."
And when you keep adding more and more complexity requiring more and more parts, that depend on availability. When an older car has far far fewer components to fail? what is the result of that?
its easier to weld in a new sheet of metal than it is to replace a out of production computer module
"You first mention that awd, turbo's, computers are bad."
Nope, i said nearly everything is turbo AWD run by a million computers... 2000's AWD and turbo tech were less complex and thus simpler... and thus easier to repair...
"you change your point that those systems used to be less complicated than they are now, thus only modern turbo's/awd's/computers are bad. Hardly seems fair."
My point was less complex and easier to repair from the beginning, and pointing out that nearly every car on the market today is awd turbo, meaning more numbers of higher complexity machines... but ok,
"EV AWD systems are very simple. One motor on each axle, done. much simpler than an engine, gearbox, transfer case & axle."
And all run with computers, and electricity tied to a grid. And somehow less simple than older awd/4wd systems... "its just an electric motor and vroom means simple" is just amazing
""They kinda are when they are made poorly and cheaply. And when they are exposed to drastically changing environments"""
"This applies to any component."
No not really, we are talking about you saying computers are usually reliable, firstly, no, they aren't, LMAO, second, a mechanical rod moving the mechanical shift lever on a transmission is and always will be infinitely simpler than current day solenoid electric shifting... mostly because its still moving the mechanical shifter level on the transmission...
"You mention negligible gains. I disagree about the negligible part. Unfortunately, most of the efficiency gains are offset by increasing vehicle weight and size. However, modern cars are faster, safer, cleaner, more comfortable, better equipped than older cars.
"i disagree"
Imediatly following
"Unfortunately, most of the efficiency gains are offset by increasing vehicle weight and size"
Thanks for proving my point while saying you disagree with it.... 300IQ
and throwing a bunch of useless techno bullsht doesnt count as " better equipped"
" its not really anecdotal to point out the increasingly complex un unrepairable nature of newer vehicles for negligible gains"
You literally included an anecdote to make your point. In said anecdote, you discuss how you could repair the modern car, albeit after searching for some hard to come by part. There is a multitude of parts of older cars that are excessively hard to come by.
Its like you are missing the point to try and say im wrong here... If my example was an older car, i could have thrown a rubber fuel hose and a hose clamp on it and be done with it. You cant do that anymore, therefore its harder to repair.. "old parts are hard to come by too" right, and older cars have far far fewer parts to remain functional... and as newer cars age, what do you think will happen? Honestly its starting to sound like you've never actually worked on vehicles before...
"actually i asked you several questions that you ignored"
I'm not going to count the number computers in a rav4. I'll not deny that needless complexity can be a risk for longevity. Anything that's on the car can break. More components = more failure modes, more risk for issues.
Yet: your questions are all address by the same thing I have said multiple times already:
Even if modern cars don't last as long as older cars, you can factor this in into the calculation; you simply offset their production costs over a shorter mileage.
"even if you are right and cars become harder to fix, wont last as long, become disposable commodifies like cellphones, and end up with more landfill and wasted resources, its slightly better in my " cost benefit" analysis somehow"
incredible my dude
"If you don't know how much shorter the lifespan of a modern car is compared to an older one, make an estimate. We can always refine the numbers later. I keep hammering on the need for a quantative comparison, otherwise we are comparing apples and oranges."
You are trying to live in data, i live in the real world. Do you work on vehicles? I do, I do it every day, i see and deal with this nonsense every single time i try to fix something on anything newer than 2010. I cant give you data, i can see and give you observable trends. And extrapolate end results of what i see. " data" will inevitably always tell you what it was set up to tell you. Honesty or reality are not required
"Old cars emit more during use, but they last longer. OK, but which one of those points weighs heaviest?"
the one that doesnt involve vehicles being pushed to the point of disposable appliances for the sake of " benefits" Who benefits when you need to replace your car every 3-8 years? Who benefits when we have to fill landfills with garbage? I fail to see how you can manage to conjure up some numbers that says having cars become disposable appliances to save the environment is a winning strategy. You obviously dont say that verbatim, but nearly everything i brought up you agreed with in one way or another, and yet the culmination of those ideas fails to sink in?
"We need to compare them somehow. We use numbers for that and put them in an equation. Otherwise, we're just sharing opinoins and feelings. That does not lead to an accurate outcome."
You are so caught up in data you forget that the data comes from real life...
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@Gnerko123 " adding more words doesn’t make you more right and doesn’t make them relevant automatically."
and we just skip right passed everything i brought up, and ignored it... wonderful conversation pal.
" I don’t need to respond to every paragraph you wrote, because everything boils down to what I wrote."
Buddy, you literally agreed with nearly every point i made, yet still ignore it... Sure buddy
"You don’t agree with my equation. How would you go about comparing environmental impact of two different cars?"
you dont have an equation, you have what other people say to you. You clearly havent thought about this entire thing on a grand scale if you hjust straight up stop responding to things i bought up after you conceded that what i was saying was right...
How would i compare:? thats what ive been doing with all those words you ignored. You know those things where you say things, and they mean things? yeah those things...
your point essentially boils down to " so what if they are harder to fix, more complex and prone to breaking, and slowly being pushed into disposable commodities, but newer cars somehow are less environmentally impactful "even if your own words state that the size and weight make any environmental gains negligible, and this leads to newer vehicles becoming throwaway appliances, that somehow means less environmental impact because of my particulate " equation"....
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@Gnerko123 "disposal of the car is taken into account in the equation"
Really? so what is the environmental impact of a car being sat in a lot being crushed by a salvage yard?
"tailpipe emissions"
I remind you that your only mode of data is literally the c02 emissions data of ICE vehicles. not having anything to do with the environmental impact of a vehicle sat rotting in the open, or the breakdown of the endless plastics they use in modern vehicles. Once the vehicle stops running, the environmental impact doesnt stop.
" It appears you think this is impossible, "
the issue here is, i am thinking outside of the literal c02 (tailpipe) emissions of vehicles and am focusing on the long term viability, and environmental impact of current trends ion the automotive industry.
". It appears you think this is impossible"
If you only account for tailpipe/c02 emissions, you are missing the largest part of the environmental equation, and that has been the entire point of this discussion, detailing to you that there are other environmental factors outside of tailpipe emissions... You seem to think that this isnt the case. It seems to me that you are ignore the environmental impact of disposable vehicles, because" tailpipe emissions work out better" but that doesnt take into account of other environmental factors. I tried to explain this in multiple ways with multiple questions and scenarios. Looking into the future of current trends is very valuable in making future decisions , and seeing the trend of vehicles being endlessly complicated for in your own words reduced gain of efficiency will inevitably lead to more waste than necessary, which leads to higher levels of pollution and environmental damage. . but you seemed to just ignore them and acted like a snarky know it all who is too ignorant of anything outside of your narrow scope of understating of the topic IE tailpipe emissions. Mind you, never actually citing a single thing despite lambasting everything i say as opinion. So what if a newer vehicle produced slightly less emissions of an older vehicle? if the newer vehicle wont last as long as a newer vehicle. But yeah i dont have data for this. why would i be able to provide data for this? Im just looking at the future result of endless complexity added to a simple system for an ever reducing level of gains. The point of diminishing returns was somewhere in the mid 2000's if im being honest, but that really is just an opinion of working on vehicles of a wide array of vehicles for maybe a decade or more.
I discuss this topic because i have a vested interest in how these things function. FFS this is a year old comment thread that im still responding to. LOL I disagree with your assessment not because i believe your data is wrong, but because the data you are using isn't the entire picture
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@Gnerko123
"If that is really what you think, it really is sad."
it is, because you keep doing it. i ask questions and you ignore them. Its honestly disrespectful at this point...
Here are a few you have yet to answer
"what are you comparing if not co2?"
"What is the environmental impact of a car being sat in a lot being crushed by a salvage yard?"
"How are you so sure of your opinion?"
"what data do you use other than c02 emissions? "
"what is the environmental impact on newer cars becoming disposable like old appliances?"
"whats the environmental impact of throwaway cars?"
"does that factor into your equation?"
"You're making the same points over and over again, only in different forms."
You are literally not making a single point whatsoever, you ignore relevant questions, and you dismiss everything i say as opinion while providing nothing in response
'll try one last time. You originally wrote:
"keeping an old car running effectively is far more useful at reducing total overall pollution than scrapping it and buying a new one."
You need to make an apples to apples comparison of the overall pollution of both cars to be able to draw this conclusion.
SInce this has already been answered before
Car that exists pollutes less than one that needs to be made to replace it...
I cant seem to understand why you have such a hard time understanding what seems to be a simple concept...
"Yet you appear to refuse to do this."
If you read this comment thread, you will find it answered more than once. you are disingenuous, and quite frankly frustrating..
"If not, I am keen to finally hear what your metric is for 'overall pollution' and how you came up with the conclusion that keeping an old car running always scores better on this metric than scrapping the old car and buying a new one."
If you would answer the following questions,
"What is the environmental impact of a car being sat in a lot being crushed by a salvage yard?"
"what is the environmental impact on newer cars becoming disposable like old appliances?"
"whats the environmental impact of throwaway cars?"
"does that factor into your equation?"
this would be apparent to you. but you have a dogmatic manner of approaching this conversation and refuse to even comprehend what is being said to you... its incredibly frustrating
Now i expect you to just straight up ignore everything i post, but here i am
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@Gnerko123
"my point is we can calculate them and then make a comparison."
"what are you comparing if not co2?"
"What is the environmental impact of a car being sat in a lot being crushed by a salvage yard?"
"what data do you use other than c02 emissions? "
"what is the environmental impact on newer cars becoming disposable like old appliances?"
"whats the environmental impact of throwaway cars?"
"does that factor into your equation?
"we compare all tailpipe emissons, emissions expelled during production of the car, including environmental damage from battery production, environmental damage from oil production and refining, environmental damage from car recycling, and for an EV emissions created in generating the electrical power it consumes. There are methods to convert all figures to CO2 equivalents."
So somehow you convert plastic breakdown, and fluids, to c02 numbers? Dont buy that one bit. Talk about apples to oranges.... Also " recycling"? Only most of the metal is saved, the plastics, fabrics, and paints end up in landfills... Not sure how you can justify changing a plastic/microplastic environmental decomposition into a co2 number... seems like its not gonna make much sense no matter what you do with it
"..environmental impact ...disposable... appliances?"
I like that you ask this question, have no quantitative answer yourself, yet state that "moving away from things like appliances and cars being disposable like cellphones will go much farther than pushing evs"
Its like you arent capable of listening ot what ive said in a coherent genuine manner...If cars stop being made throwaway disposable appliances, the waste will be reduced. I dont need a study or complex math to comprehend that point. I feel like you are misunderstanding it intentionally. I have repeatedly stated my opinion on this idea. Not making new cars and re using already existing ones is better for the environment.
"How are you so sure of your opinion?"
It is my opinion that we should make a calculation to know the outcome of an equation. We weigh the pros and cons of both new cars and old cars and decide which is less and which is more. This is a quantitative question. No quantitative conclusions without a quantitative approach. My opinion then logically follows.
You somehow mash plastics into a c02 number, and call it a fair comparison? You are weighing a math equation made with estimates for extremely different scenarios while pretending its a fair comparison because some math? cmon dude, be real here
You once again show that you have no metric for making a comparison, yet know the outcome of the comparison. Lacking a quantitative analysis, you have no foundation to make a quantative conclusion such as "Car that exists pollutes less than one that needs to be made to replace it..."
I really think you are just fking with me at this point... Seriously... Creating a new object will inevitably always cost more energy and resources to create than one that already exists.. Ya know... because the one that exists already already exists...
My line of thought is summarrised below in small steps. Please let me know at what point you satart to disagree and which point we can agree on.
Driving any car pollutes. An old car has more tailpipe emissions than a new car. Thus the marginal emissions of an old car are higher than of a new car. A new car needs to be produced, this creates additional emissions which we don't need for the old car. A new car has a finite lifetime. We can determine the emissions needed for production and eventual recycling of the new car. We divide those production and recycling emissions by the mileage lifetime of the new car. We add this figure to the marginal emissions of the new car. This gives us a figure for the total emissions per mile of the new car. If this figure is lower than the marginal emissions of the old car, we create less overall polution by scrapping the old car ASAP and getting the new car.
All your entire argument hinges on the mashing together multiple different environmental factors into a simple data point, ignoring that this is not really accurate to real life, New cars are more and more likely to fail earlier and earlier, causing the " gains" they make to be less and less. Even to a point that you admit to that the gains are reduced based on the size and form factor of the vehicles ( which also exists emissions)
"If this figure is lower than the marginal emissions of the old car, we create less overall polution by scrapping the old car ASAP and getting the new car."
And if this figure is wrong? Where is it in your equation to solve the issue where newer cars end up not lasting as long, and the "lifetime emissions" are lower than "mathematically expected"? What about the end lifecycle of the newer vehicle? How many newer vehicles have to be scrapped, while older ones hang on to change your lifetime emissions metric? At what point do you consider the reparability of these vehicles as a factor in their overall emissions? This isnt even talking about EVS so to speak, because you can retrofit an older vehicle with an EV drivetrain and this would also reduce its overall lifetime emissions... but a dead car,, ICE or EV, thats unable to be repaired will never be a better option.
This analysis doesn't take into account that the old car also has a finite lifetime. If we would, the case for the old car would be worsened.
Gonna be real honest with you here chief... A car has an infinite lifetime. I know, sounds crazy... but it does. You can repair body panels, weld in new frame, replace engines, and transmissions... The case for old cars is even greater here. I tried to explain this to you but you apparently dont want to listen or you dont care.
I will note that it can take some time before the overall emissions of the new car are lower than those of the old car; the new car needs to drive some miles to compensate for its production emissions. If the new car lives past this point, scrapping the old car and getting the the new car creates less overall pollution than keeping the old car on the road.
And when new cars fail sooner and sooner, and dont live up to lofty emissions expectations? like ive been trying to tell you.. also im refusing to even acknowledge your point that " if co2 emissions work out, its better to forever live in a world where disposable vehicles are a thing as long as my very narrow specific manner of calculating its value is met.. its sorta insane
There is a point where the tailpipe emissions of the new car are so much lower than those of the old car, that the new car is cleaner, even factoring in production and recycling emissions. This is because the production and recycling emissions per mile aren't enough to offset the tailpipe emissions difference between the old and new cars. Whether or not this is the case, can be determined by a calculation.
"a calculation"
where you convert everything to c02..
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@Gnerko123 my original reply was deleted for some reason
"I asked you about your overall pollution. You only mention production and recycling. This is why it looks like you’re ignoring tailpipe/marginal emissions. I’m not advocating looking at tailpipe emissions only, nor co2 only (tailpipes emit more than co2 alone)."
You bring up nothing of overall pollution, i at least explained my points. How am i ignoring tailpipe emissions whatsoever???
"you drew a sweeping conclusion that keeping an old car running always creates less overall pollution than scrapping it and getting a new car, without data to support your claim. I then provided a framework to assess which is less bad regarding overall pollution. I do not claim that junking any old car and replacing it by any new car is a good idea. You subsequently get into all kinds of objections against my method, still without providing your own method. You have no basis for your sweeping conclusion."
I provided a framework detailing my position, and gave examples while you have not really done the same. I provided my method. repeatedly over the course of several days. you ignored almost all of it.
i being up recycling not being what you seem to think it is, and you quote from wiki is essentially what i just stated that you somehow disagree with. It saves mostly metals, and most of the non metal is sent to landfill..
I bring up ease of repair in endlessly complex systems, more components to fail, increasing costs of ownership and maintain, and ends up furthering the end result of the disposable consumer vehicle
I bring up regulations being a driving factor to this issue, CAFE standards forcing cars to become larger and larger to meet obscene emissions regulatory guidelines. You yourself even admit to this point. that the gains from newer vehicles are mostly offset by size and weight
You act like i havent explicitly explained everything you've asked over and over again, and you just refuse to even attempt to try to understand the concept...
YOU have no basis for your conclusion ...
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@williambrennan104 "A "nation" is an arbitrary group of individuals"
Wrong
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
". Hence, there is no such thing as a nation in an economic sense, any more than there is such a thing as a brick in terms of physics. Physics applies certain rules to subatomic particles, and doesn't care how those particles are arranged. The same is true of economics with individuals and "societies" respectively."
wtf does this have to do with a nation?
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@EnglishmanB3 " i dont believe in the concept of breeds, all dogs are the same, so you should treat all the same, because they are all dogs, there is no dog breeds"
"" i dont believe in the concept of breeds, all cats are the same, so you should treat all the same, because they are all cats, there is no cat breeds""
" i dont believe in the concept of breeds, all fish are the same, so you should treat all the same, because they are all fish, there is no fish breeds"
" i dont believe in the concept of birds, all birds are the same, so you should treat all the same, because they are all dogs, there is no bird breeds"
you see how dumb this sounds?
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@EnglishmanB3 Researchers at the College of Dentistry at The Ohio State University, Columbus, led by Dr. Purnima Kumar, associate professor of periodontology, investigated whether variations in the composition of health-compatible oral biofilms in the oral cavity could be connected to a person's ethnic affiliation.
The research team collected samples of bacteria from the saliva and tooth surfaces and from under the gingiva of 192 study participants, belonging to four ethnic groups: non-Hispanic black, non-Hispanic white, Chinese and Latino. None of the participants had any systemic diseases, active caries or periodontal disease.
Researchers analyzed the samples by using a DNA deep sequencing methodology. They found ethnicity-specific clustering of microbial communities in the saliva and subgingival biofilms.
When they trained a machine to classify each assortment of subgingival microbes, they found that it was able to identify a participant's ethnicity from these subgingival microbial signatures. The machine identified non-Hispanic blacks with 100 percent sensitivity and 74 percent specificity, followed by Latinos (67 percent and 80 percent, respectively) and non-Hispanic whites (50 percent and 91 percent, respectively).
“The data demonstrate a significant association between ethnic affiliation and the composition of the oral microbiome, to the extent that these microbial signatures appear to be capable of discriminating between ethnicities,” wrote the researchers.
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@EnglishmanB3 Our data indicate that the unique folding patterns of gyri and sulci are closely aligned with genetic ancestry. The geometry robustly predicts each individual’s genetic background even though the population has been shaped by waves of migration and admixtures [12, 18]. A previous study, using only facial features, achieved 64% explained variance in YRI ancestry among African Americans [19]. Our 3D representation of cortical surface geometry performs similarly in predicting YRI ancestry and also performs well for the other three continental ancestries. As data in Table 1 show, the explanatory power is not due to the differences in total brain volumes, nor to the differences in areal expansion of the cortical surface. Instead, regional folding patterns characterize each ancestral lineage.
On the other hand, the global shapes of the reconstructed cortical surface geometry match W.W. Howells’ description of craniometry of 2,524 ancient human crania from 28 populations [20]. Crania of African ancestry tended to have a narrower cranial base, and those of Northern European ancestry had elongated occipital and frontal regions. Crania of East Asian ancestry had a high cranial vault, and crania of Native American ancestry were flatter. Regarding the morphing differences of YRI, EA, and NA, all had high magnitude and variations in the posterior-temporal regions (Figure 3).These findings are consistent with the notion that temporal bones contain more variations across ancestral groups [6].
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@EnglishmanB3 For example, persons of African descent in the United States who self-identify as black or African American are more likely to have certain biologic traits that were ancestrally protective in Africa, such as heterozygosity for sickle cell disease, which helps to protect against malaria, or the newly described APOL1 gene, which protects against trypanosomiasis (Science, 329:841-45, 2010). Of course, the allele that conveys malaria protection in heterozygotes causes sickle cell disease in those carrying two copies, and persons homozygous for the protective form of APOL1 are at increased risk for kidney failure. Thus, in settings where malaria and trypanosomiasis are rare, these biological traits are disadvantageous and may impart adverse health consequences.
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@EnglishmanB3 Scientists studying the DNA of 52 human groups from around the world have concluded that people belong to five principal groups corresponding to the major geographical regions of the world: Africa, Europe, Asia, Melanesia and the Americas.
*The study, based on scans of the whole human genome, is the most thorough to look for patterns corresponding to major geographical regions. These regions broadly correspond with popular notions of race, the researchers said in interviews.
The researchers did not analyze genes but rather short segments of DNA known as markers, similar to those used in DNA fingerprinting tests, that have no apparent function in the body.*
''What this study says is that if you look at enough markers you can identify the geographic region a person comes from,'' said Dr. Kenneth Kidd of Yale University, an author of the report.
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@KR-mm4el now, i know you are gaslighting/trolling
but as per UN
1. A mental element: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"; and
2. A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively:
Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
endless propaganda, whute guilt indoctrination, forceful integration with endless foreigners, and a denial of attacks on whuites, and an inversion for a peoples right to self determination, and in group preferences is turned into an absolute evil AKA racism and hatred.
so feel free to disagree, but you are wrong
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@iambob6590
"They worship the State, how can they be Nationalists?"" Is that a fair translation of what you mean?
Sorta
"If you hadn't come at me like a bull at a gate in the first place this whole interaction would have easier."
yeah lets pretend you dont have a massive attitude problem
"For Context: I would say that i'm a "Cultural Nationalist" in regards to Nationalism. I'm saying this so you don't think i'm automatically against Nationalism"
wtf is " cultural nationalism"
"Everything Within the State, Nothing Against the State, Nothing Outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
Both of these men were devout Marxist Socialists, as were other early Fascists, they were "trained Marxists".
Um no, im not seeing the connection to marxism
"Technically, this is where it might be safe to say they were no longer Marxist Socialists, but they were still Socialists, and they still think like Marxists in how they attain power so they can enact their vision."
yeah i disagree, you have shown me nothing to illustrate that
"So they found a different kind of 'people' group to use. "The Nation" instead of "The Proletariat", both are held as some sort of mythic strength."
So i guess defining these terms would be meaningless to you?
"It's still twisted just like Socialist end up twisting everything."
the only twisting here is you...
The German lot come from the same place too, with their own mythic version of "The Nation"
Yeah i dont think it was a german version of nation my guy
"c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
"In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918."
So marxists divide classes in society, while fashists or nationionalists dont, and unite the people of the nation as a whole instead of a nation of oppressor oppressed classes. and you tell me they are the same
"BLM, is part of just another twisted version of the same bloody thing all over again."
No i dont think so...
"Their "Nation" is some weird mythic history of Africa (we wuz kangs sort of stuff), then you throw in the "The huwite man is oppressing you" stuff too.
It's really similar to what happened in Zimbabwe with Mugabe, a Socialist who used "The huwite man" as an enemy too. Also similar to South Africa."
Same shit, different bucket.
LOL yeah TOTALLY the same thing dude...
"Are they Socialists? Yes
Are they Nationalists Yes, in the same twisted way that Socialists have done it ALL over the world. The CCP is another example of this."
Yeah i disagree with your assumption that marxists are nationalists
InSoc vs NatSoc
Fuck em all.
Lesson over, good night.
your lesson scks and you are an arrogant dche
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@schoe2164
where did you copy paste this from?
1. Homosexuality entails the evolutionary benefit of an aggrandizement of Altruism (Increase of the parent's direct fitness as well as reproductive success, increase of the homosexuals' indirect fitness)."
So an evolutionary benefit that isnt able to reproduce? seems like a dead end evolutionary
2. Homosexuality, additionally, is attributed to the fortitious convergence of several loci in analogy.
What?
3. The rotundity and size of a human's diencephalon is shown to differ according to sexuality (homo and hetero in this case)
Never heard of it
4. Having older brothers increases the probability of being gay (estimate depending on how many) due to immune system expression of the female body during pregnancy as a deterrent of the Y-linked protein NLGN4Y
5. The SLTRK family, most notably SLTRK6-5, responsible for regulation of neuronal growth, has great homology with NTRK (hormonal affinity), the SLIT group and is quintessential, alongside the others for neuronal growth and hormonal expression. The SLTRK6 protein is engulfed by the diencephalon, which I previously noted differs in size according to sexuality. This is highly indicative of the fact that chromosome 13 has an impact on sexuality (the one that this point is based on).
so the ghey gene has been found?
6. On chromosome 14, THSR encodes a thyroid stimulating hormone and is also found in neuro-rich areas, such as the hippocampus. Thsr codes for the autoantigen for hyperthyroidism, also known as Graves' disease. Surveys have amplified that women with Graves' disease are more probable to conceive gay children. Graves' disease, for instance, skews y-chromosome inactivation, skewed y-chromosome inactivation is more common with mothers of gay children."
Yeah im sure its genetic, and not having anything to do with cultural pressures, indoctrination, grooming, and abuse.. nope
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@abaeks1637
I partly agree with you, I just think you are too narrow minded when assuming he is not contributing.
I never said he wasnt contributing, i was saying it is a net loss for the people THIS country
You have no idea what kind of business or work he is doing in your country.
it literally doesn't matter, its a net negative. With them taking jobs that would otherwise be done by non immigrants, depressing wages overall for such related professions, and STILL exports significant amounts of money out of the country
You don’t think the US benefits in any way from dealing with other countries and bringing in labour from elsewhere?
What does that help though? the GDP? corporate entities? the federal governments budget? how does this help the every day americian? pro tip, it doesnt
I am saying that you can’t conclude from his statement, that it is a net loss for America that he is sending money to his family in Argentina.
No, what i am saying is mass immigration as a whole is a net negative, because this is a very common thing that happens, and billions of dollars are taken out of the US economy, and millions of jobs are taken up by people who clearly have allegiances outside the country, and are only here for financial reasons
Not everyone was lucky enough to be born in a country like the US, but to hell with them, right?
So we have to absorb the entirety of the planet because we were one of the few places that turned out to not be complete shitholes?
So the work of a father isnt fair to be given to his son? What a group creates they must forcefully share with others who had ZERO part in its creation? thats a great way to ruin a good thing..
If people are working legally, keeping out of trouble, I don’t see why you would not welcome them because they spend their money a way you don’t like.
I already explained to you why i have a problem with this.
they take jobs
the depress wages
they increase cost of living via rent
they add to the burden of infrastructure without previously having paid into it
Plenty of people from outside the US are buying American products and helping your economy that way.
In what way? everything is made in china and the Philippines, and Taiwan... far too many of the goods made in the us arent made in the us, or things that are " made in the us" are made with components made in foreign countries... because this helps the multinationals and corporate entities
I would be more worried about your own banks lol.
other than the failure in 1913 with the creation of the federal reserve, to the enaction of the immigration act of 1965, we cant go into much more than that, thats anti semetic
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@bandidomex6766
"nations are economic zone Stupid! "
No they arent.. maybe learn what you are talking about before opening your mouth
1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised"
"Why do you think all countries measure their wealth thru GDP."
Because they all have central banks and are controlled by the banking cabal
why do you even think GDP is a good tool in the first place?
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@bandidomex6766
"no! I'm just pointing out you dishonesty. That's all."
the only one here who has been dishonest is you
"so if white people from Dagestan who are predominantly Muslim came to america by the millions you would not have a problem with that?
No i would still have a problem with that.
If it was millions of germans whitest of white, i would STILL have a problem with that. if it were millions of italians, french, dutch, or irish, i would STILL HAVE A PROBLEM.. Even me saying i would only want immigration from italy, france, or germany, i would still be against the sheer numbers.... its like you arent grasping the overall problem, and focusing on trying for gotchas
"I asked you how do you measure a good economy from a bad one without using the data from GDP?"
And i suggested measuring poverty when i replied ( and answered)
"GDP is a meaningless number if vast swaths of working people are living near the poverty line but huge corporations and international businesses make record profits, that means the " gdp" shows this is a " good " econom"
If you have record numbers of people barely making ends meet, and global multinationals making record profits, the " gdp" says the economy is " good"... This is how i argued that even if the " economy" is doing well, the people of the nation are not, therefore, the economy isnt a good tool to measure how a nation actually is...
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@bandidomex6766
"how will those nations be destroyed if their people decide to migrate to the USA?"
If a nations people are no longer there, it ceases to be a nation. If all the germans left germany for the US, then india moved in to germany, germany is no longer germany, its india 2
"Millions of mexicans have been coming back to their homelands over many decades and Mexico still exist."
Yeah because they do the very thing you both said you were doing, but then backtracked... they work in optehr nations, soak up resources, then leave and have all the benefits in your home country
"Yes I would welcome them because I ain't a bigoted bastard like you."
of courerse you would let them in because this isnt your nation lol this is exactly what nim talking about. Poeple come in, then get to decide if more people come in regardless if the original group says no...
"I'm ok with people having other cultures and traditions from My own and I don't expect them to assimilate to mine way of life."
Without assimilation you have balkanization and strife causing tons of issues....... but please go on illustrating my point without realizing it
" If Irish, Germans, and french want to come over I would welcome them."
good for you, would you welcome millions a year for every year for 60 years?
"there you go being a filthy weasel"
You not liking the answer i give doesnt make me a weasel you dishonest hack
"If GDP is not a good measure of an nations economy then explain to me how does the economy of Venezuela compare to the American economy?"
WHAT THE FCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THIS DISCUSSION
why are you ignoring my answer like it doesnt mean anything
you keep talkign about how " the economy" and measuring the " economy" as some sort of useful data point on the health of a nation, but im talking about the nation itself and the people. youre are a globalists and have zero care for anything other than your own profit.
"I did not asked about income inequality."
I KNOW that, you asked "what is a good way to measure the economy if not GDP" and i keep telling you that its pointless to talk about because a healthy economy is meaningless if the vast majority of the nation is suffering.. but again you dont actually care about people..
"How would you compare the economy of Venezuela to that of America? Would you say they got the same GDP?"
This is a pointless exercise in your ability to obfuscate the topic
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@bandidomex6766
how will those nations be destroyed if their people decide to migrate to the USA?"
If a nations people are no longer there, it ceases to be a nation. If all the germans left germany for the US, then india moved in to germany, germany is no longer germany, its india 2
"Millions of mexicans have been coming back to their homelands over many decades and Mexico still exist."
Yeah because they do the very thing you both said you were doing, but then backtracked... they work in optehr nations, soak up resources, then leave and have all the benefits in your home country
"Yes I would welcome them because I ain't a bigoted bastard like you."
of courerse you would let them in because this isnt your nation lol this is exactly what nim talking about. Poeple come in, then get to decide if more people come in regardless if the original group says no...
"I'm ok with people having other cultures and traditions from My own and I don't expect them to assimilate to mine way of life."
Without assimilation you have balkanization and strife causing tons of issues....... but please go on illustrating my point without realizing it
" If Irish, Germans, and french want to come over I would welcome them."
good for you, would you welcome millions a year for every year for 60 years?
"there you go being a filthy weasel"
You not liking the answer i give doesnt make me a weasel you dishonest hack
"If GDP is not a good measure of an nations economy then explain to me how does the economy of Venezuela compare to the American economy?"
WHAT THE FCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THIS DISCUSSION
why are you ignoring my answer like it doesnt mean anything
you keep talkign about how " the economy" and measuring the " economy" as some sort of useful data point on the health of a nation, but im talking about the nation itself and the people. youre are a globalists and have zero care for anything other than your own profit.
"I did not asked about income inequality."
I KNOW that, you asked "what is a good way to measure the economy if not GDP" and i keep telling you that its pointless to talk about because a healthy economy is meaningless if the vast majority of the nation is suffering.. but again you dont actually care about people..
"How would you compare the economy of Venezuela to that of America? Would you say they got the same GDP?"
This is a pointless exercise in your ability to obfuscate the topic
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@earlwarner4404
so instead of doing what i asked, you give me a meme answer...
well lets see, first link was garbage, second link was a " science" link with 2 meaningful points. "advantage desert soil has lots of nutrients from lack of rain which makes for good agriculture provided adequate irrigation" immediately followed by " disadvantage lack of rainfall and extreme weather " so seems like a net loss by the fact that you would have to artificially modify the environment to gain benefit from it
next was " Less Stress, Healthy Activities, Lower Blood Pressure, Stronger Bones, Improved Mobility and Less Joint Pain, Better Air Quality, Positive Mental Outlook
I mean pretty sure you could get most of those with an area that ISNT a desert, but in other rural dry areas that ARENT deserts
the rest of the links we sort of opinion tabloid level garbage either saying stuff like " it looks pretty" or " uh there are some health benefits like sunlight and fresh air" or " your in the middle of nowhere so its peaceful"
there was one sorta interesting one detailing benefits to archeology, but other than that, and a preservation of plant and animal life in an ecosystem, i dont see much. you could have literally typed a fraction of any of that, and provided more than enough of an answer, but you decided not to for some reason... No one is saying to eradicate all deserts, but if you already have to modify the environment to make it more habitable, how is doing more of the same much different?
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@KingQwertzlbrmpf
a nation is its people
"nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups."
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@baban7887
"This whole thread is a rebuttal to your insanity. Can I go now?"
LOL what do you even mean dude? is THAT what you get from readint this whole thread?
"Seriously dude you think you own the place because you’re white."
You own it if you built it, and your ancestors have been heere for over 200 years, but go on and tell me about how nations should just pretend that anyone can be anything and let anyone in
"It’s like Hitler was asking me to make sure I read Mein Kampf entirely and explain point by point what’s wrong with him, on a day where I don’t have time."
Its not, and the fact that you went so far as to invoke hortler means you either arent grasping what im saying, or you dont know anything about history
"You can’t even say that people won’t debate, someone already visibly spent the time doing just that here and you’re still there insisting on your shit, complaining you hear different language at the grocery store."
Yeah its clear you just read whatever you wanted to read out of the words i wrote instead of the actual words i wrote. I guess a nation being dissolved into varying groups with their own languages cultures and living areas is totally normal...
"You’re not someone to convince and to work with, you’re a piece of incriminating evidence, proving how fucked up right wing has become."
Wow amazing, seriously, what a wonder here... Just call me evil and just say addressing what i say is poitnelss
massive ego behind that one
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@baban7887
"Did you? Really? Did you build it ootmaster1? And were your ancester here for over 200 years?"
Yes, and no im not giving my information to them, i did normal genealogy with my grandparents and my parents, and have been here at least since the 1800's
"It is. I mean your name is not Adolf, and you're not advocating for a superior race, at least not yet, but you are advocating for a white nation "
Because it was? and im not talking about a superior race, but i can at least acknowledge that people are different
"a culture that stick to english and burger joint."
I take it that english is a second language to you? and if this is what you think of " white culture" then that makes you pretty racist doesnt it?
"and pray for my comment not to be deleted as their moderation system is strangely broken and acting like a drunk stormtrooper."
Yeah you get used to it when trying to be honest on youtube comments... funny that
"You could see at least why I am trying to get out of it no?"
A little dopamine? i mean isnt that why anyone replies isnt it?
"I am so sorry I guess I missjudged you, is that your way of expressing your regret that people aren't mingling more?"
So dodging the fact that you misrepresent what i say, followed by an insult that doesnt really make sense, because you arent gfrasping what im saying because you dont actually care? interesting play, cant imagine why you would do such a thing /s
Thats weird. Everywhere white people are they are becoming minorities
You know wgites are the global minority right? And arent allowed to have spaces for them right?
White people amount to between 73% and 76% of the population in the US.
Your little victim speech here is grossly false, on so many account. "
Please, tell me what in the above is false, because it is factually correct... and i noticed you sorta didnt even try and correct me, you just went right back to attacking what i say instead of addressing it... typical...
"You're just another one of these, who are shitting all over the place, faster than anyone can clean up"
Wtf are you trying to even say here? im getting the vibe that its probably an adhom, but who knows...
"When large numbers of indians move in they dont put up more burger joints. You get hindi temples, curry food,..."
listen to yourself seriously..
So again were gonna just dismiss what i say without addressing it?
Shocked, i am shocked... no not really
are you telling me that when large numbers of immigrants come to one area, they begin to turn teh area into teh area they came from? your telling me when i go to the section of the city thats chinese, and when i drive through all the store signs are not english, the stores are all ethnic, etc i dont even know what you want me to say other than you are just ignoring the reality of reality...
you can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of ignoring reality
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@baban7887
"I already to you about this 73% stats, why is it that one you are googling, then hinting that I failed to do that, and how is it supporting your point about white becoming a minority everywhere?"
Because i was talking about the US and have been the entire time?
"I am not really saying that you're lying. I think you're sincere. That' doesnt make it true."
If you cant explain to me how its wrong, i cant honestly change my mind
"I ll return the favor, play fair and give you a source that is actually closer to your point:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/us/white-americans-minority-population.amp.html
Funny you’d act all like “Cmon google it man it’s easy” when then you give the wrong thing."
So basically, im right, but you want to play the semantics game " what even IS white" and then deny anything i said because of a semantics argument that logically doesnt change anything. just allows you to ignore what i said and label it as you wish...
"Interestingly, people are marrying more and more outside their race. "
and this is still a minority, and the propaganda pushed through endlessly isnt as effective as the people pushing it think it is... but go on and tell me im wrong by doing nothing to illustrate im wrong... its a fun game
"We re mixing ootmaster. And it’s ok. Like I said. People and culture are evolving together. A is not going to replace B, they’ll give birth to C that will inherit from both of them."
You are willfully denying what i have said, and entered an argument that doesnt make sense...
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@baban7887
"We can agree at least on the fact that YT moderation is broken."
I think its doing the job it was intended to do, not that i agree with it
It makes no sense to me that it would let you write the things I can still read but prevented you to post what I think I understand you posted."
Yeah this sentence didnt really make sense to me
"For the rest. If we were discussing tax policies, and someone called me a socialist, two things could follow: I could argue what I am advocating has nothing to do with socialism, or I could just say yes I am a socialist, what’s wrong with that, you haven’t proven that socialists theories are wrong."
i mean or you could have a discussion on what defines socialism, and how much unearned wealth transfers should be allowed
"Right now I am still confused, and cannot tell, wether I am arguing with someone who denies that the things he is saying belong exactly to Neonazism and white supremacy theories"
Oh kay... want to unpack those buzzwords for me so i know what " white supremacy" and " neonnazism" mean as anything other than labels to avoid discussion
"It would make no sense to waste time proving to someone who has a swastika on his wall, that he is a Nazi obviously.
And from what you’re writing it’s very honestly confusing, I can’t tell for sure which one it is."
Ok so instead of talking about what is said or the things im trying to articulate, you just label me, make assumptions, and bring nothing to the conversation
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@baban7887
"Turns out Metis here in the US has a different meaning. So I am not even sure anymore what word you tried to used that didn’t go through."
And i have zero clue what you are trying to say here, i had to google metis to even know what you said. metis is a five letter word, i was referencing a four letter word, one usually used to describe mixed dogs
"YT blocks some of my comments too, so I doubt it is doing the job you think it is intended to do."
Its disrupting conversations, banning arbitrary words, and selective enforcement of bans, and shadowbans... its doing exactly as it was designed to do
"You’re pretty much the definition of those buzzwords. But to you that’s going to look like a circular argument."
I mean you still are just labeling me as an excuse to not discuss anything so , what do you call that?
"Alright, let’s just operate on the assumption that I am talking to an already converted Nazi. That way labels indeed don’t matter anymore."
But why
"I am going to enjoy my day, and later, evening or tomorrow I ll try to start with this: “culture is downright from genetic”,"
Um if thats a quote from me, it would probably have been culture is downSTREAM from genetics"
this here leads me to suspect you struggle with english or are using a translating service
"Also, and it is a yes and no question, simple enough, is it fair to at least assume that you consider it a goal to indefinitely maintain a white majority in the US population?"
Well if one expects it to stay the nation it has been yes, otherwise its going to drastically change, and will probably just continue to get worse until w people are a tiny minority anywhere they go, and will never get any of the wonderful perks and protections ""minorities"" ( not globally just in W countries) get
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@ChrisPyle
"Rohit"
thats really cool, and good for them, but there are still over a billion indians, and this is a numbers game. for every 1 rohit there 10k non rohits...
"Meanwhile, his parents still shop at Indian markets and cling to their Indian Culture"
This is my entire point. this will always be the average, and in every way this dilutes, and changes the culture of the nation like i was saying previously in the thread...
'To me, they are all Americans"
except by your own admission they are not. only rohit would fall in that category, and its still only civic nationalism. his parents are not Americans, they are indians living in america as taking your culture, slapping it somewhere else, doesnt make you a member of the previous group
"What I can’t stand is anyone, coming here from any other country, flying their old flag, disrespecting and burning ours."
But you have no problem with foreigners who barely speak the language, popping up entire communities of their own people, then self segregating and creating mini pocket nations inside my own is ok? its only a matter of time before they disrespect grows out from subtle passive disrespect to intentional willful disrespect...
"America is a set of ideals, its culture is unique in the world
Yeah a set of ideals and culture from a specific subset of the global population, and that is the only population that gets zero respect and has zero recourse to becoming minorities in the very lands they created that you love so much.... if you change the people you change the country, no amount of hoping in civic nationalism will do anything
"It’s not as “black and white” as some would claim"
it is but you arent seeing it that way
Interesting thread!
👍
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@ChrisPyle
"I think what you’re feeling (and so am I in many cases) is an effort to demonize the white American male, masculinity, and anything we would call normal life. The family unit is under attack, morality is under attack. Being straight is under attack, Basically any value now considered “old fashioned” is under attack to some degree by some faction or another."
right, and its not all coincidences, its intentional. were at the beginning stages of a white genophage, and talking about it makes me a notsee
"That said, it’s being attacked by white liberal Americans as much, if not more than anyone coming here from abroad with darker skin."
Well these " white liberals" are usually indoctrinated in the education system by the growing level of marxism in the academic sector of the western world, and the pwoople that are being imported are just being used as pawns in a larger global game
"I do agree that this is the first time in history a minority group of white peppers (globally a minority ) is being attacked for having their own country, even though it was fought for, purchased, and won fair and square."
Its not just in the US, its everywhere white peepo exist..france, sweden, germany, italy... all becoming minorities
"People coming here claiming minority, or even victim status inside a predominately white country, in an overwhelmingly non white world is dishonest, if not flat out stupid."
Its because they are treated better than the host population, because racism
"Plenty of places you can be with billions of others that look just like you, why come here if you hate it so much?"
Because they hate the people who made it
"That said, if you want to be a proud American and support American values and culture, I don’t have a problem with that. Unfortunately you are correct in saying for every 1 like my friend, there are thousands of others that would rather turn America into their home country and that I don’t agree with at all."
Sure, but my argument has always been its a numbers game that is unfair from the start and pointing that out is racism somehow..
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@ChrisPyle
"I completely agree"
See at least there are SOME people willing to have a reasonable discussion about spicy topics
"People that come here and refuse to assimilate or allow their children to assimilate should go back to their own country, not try to change ours"
Sure, exactly, but how? they are already given citizenship and cant just be thrown out, how do you undo decades of mass immigration?
"There used to be a merit based immigration system in place until the 1960s. I’m all for that."
right but then in 1965 the immigration laws were changed, and that it was promised it would have no effect on the demographics of the nation.. here we are a few short decades later, and now were being told demographic change is a good thing...
"Trying to save the worlds problems through immigration is impossible"
Thats the thing, it isnt about helping the worlds problems. the very thing that would help these nations is to stop poaching the people who are willing to move from moving and instead focu on changing the world they were born in into something that more closely resembles the reasons they want to come to my country. Why import millions of indians instead of just making India more like the US, that way the US stays the US, and india can become the India that the indians leaving would want. but quite frankly i think its just for monetary reasons. the exchange rate between India and the US is favorable for India. come in on a 5 year visa, make 80-150k a year, and have neough to buy a massive property india when you go back
"Ever seen the video that illustrates immigration with gum-balls? It’s extremely eye opening."
of course ive seen it, i bring it up whenever people try to say immigration is to help these people... its really not, and its just fawx righteousness that makes people feel good about themselves, while they have zero care for the actual problems
"That said, we are still going to accept 1-2 million LEGAL immigrants per year"
and its FAR too many... i think a hard cap of maybe 10k a year would be enough to slow it down to work out a better solution
"Even with a merit based immigration system, they are going to come from all around the world, so that’s why I’m not willing to judge anyone based solely on skin color. I hope that makes sense"
Sure, but this is a pathological altruistic take. groups will always click with like groups, so no matter where they come from when teh numbers are high enough theres no reason to do anything otehr than link up
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@baban7887
"I am not working on infosys. I am in AI. Nonetheless, your testimony is far from what I experienced. I have never seen anyone super gluing dvi cables to laptops, Asian or not, that’s for sure."
well you obviously dont work with the vast majority for indians or H1B visa holders. telling me it didnt happen or im a lair, is really not a good look
"It d be nice to give the link to what you quote, but I found it anyway."
Ok so what was the point of asking me to link it?
"The stats is on engineers in India. There’s an important difference.
what? what does that have to do with what it stated? that the vast majority of Indian tech degree/cert owners are incapable of said jobs. which has been exactly like all teh experience i have with the industry...
"What I know and have experienced is that immigration laws in the US are already extremely rough. Someone from India who wants to work in Tech would have to get a sponsored visa by their employer."
and when you have firms like infosys fast tracking this system its not a bad gig...
"Typically a H1B, with a lottery system, or a extraordinary ability,"
LOOOOOL yeah sure bud. i worked with nothing but h1b " highly skilled workers"
"That’s why plenty of employers don’t even bother and require you to be a citizen or permanent resident to even consider hiring you"
this is at face value bullsht...
"The one who do bother are not going to do that for an idiot who couldnt even write a hello world to save his life."
your english is terrible.... are you indian by chance?
"So no, I find it truly unbelievable that there would be a massive influx of incompetent tech, working in tech."
then you are either an incompetent tech worker, or you have no idea what you are talking about... go off some more
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@baban7887
"give link to what you quote because that’s the proper way to do things"
no, you can easily look things up and you dont need to be spoon feed.. cmon dude
"And you want to talk about other people competences seriously? "
you'res are lacking
"While we are at anecdotal evidence, how many suburbs shithole, with the same duplicated chain restaurants, 1 McDonald’s, 1 Burger King, 1 Wendy, 1 subways, copy and paste every 10 miles, "
oh hey, that thing where you dont address what i say and make straw mans out of it is showing up again. cool beans dude'
"How many of these, you think you have, for one Chinatown, or Indian restaurant?"
look, you are doing the thing where you arent discussing what im saying and are making strawman arguments out off my point...
i have entire sections of cities that are exclusively Chinese unironically every sign is non english.. please pretend it doesnt happen, i love you denying what is in front of my eyes, it shows me what a liar you are
"You’re pathetic"
Peak irony
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@baban7887
"Dude seriously. Citing your source if not right away at least when asked is pretty basic"
First off, this is clearly your fisrt outing on youtube comments. links are almost always cause for the deletion of an entire comment
"So no, telling me your google query and then giving a quote out of context to justify your racist rant, is not something to do."
I mean if you are also in the united states you should theoretically get the same search results based on the same keyword search... but go off dude
"So yeah, it is a problem that I have to go look it up to discover that the point of argument was dishonest."
How is it dishonest?
"It’s your little narrative where white is an endangered species that I am arguing against.'
I mean if you want to argue who is the global minority, that would mean you would be wrong, but again, go off dude..
"Just based on your little racist brain recollection. You don’t even understand the problem."
How in tf do i not understand teh problem? you saying : you dont understand and then not explaining how im wrong isnt really doing much but wasting both of our time
"And to be clear, all the quantitive parts of your argument, seemed completely pulled out of your ass."
Literal horse sht
"Hey I know how important it is to speak perfect English for you, and I am not a native speaker, but are you sure about that one?"
LOL
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@baban7887
1. "shared links"
Good for you, any time i use links, and it isnt another youtube link or something directly linking to google, its deleted 9 times out of 10. Call me what you will, it happens all the time
"But there was no link. I don’t really understand what gets to stay and what doesn’t."
I do, certian words are gone, and anything outside major authoratitive sites such as cnn or msnbc links are usually just yeeted from the start
3. "It is dishonest because the people that come here are supposed to be selected via the immigration process I have described. Therefore that only 20% of Indian engineers in India are good enough doesn’t say much about what’s going on in the US"
That the visa system is a scam and everyone just takes advantage of it
"If employers here are going through the hassle of sponsoring someone, they aren’t going to do that just to be woke"
No, nepotism and in group personal preference. dont for get lying and fraud being rampant
"All you have to say is that you call bullshit on all of that because you worked with some who were not good enough.
Im telling you EVERY one i worked with was massively incompetent, and there are articles and studies all over that discuss this. YOU pretending its just me making sht up and not looking it up because i wont spoon feed you every article link and story i have ever seen
" This is why we don’t decide policies on personal anecdotes."
im not, you are pretending i am, because im not spoon feeding you everything
"This is not a new argument, it had been made but strangely I have to do it again"
Seriously, what does this mean? your ESL isnt helping... let me guess, are you indian?
4. "Global minority doesn’t necessarily make you endangered"
it kinda does "An endangered species is a species that is very likely to become extinct in the near future, either worldwide or in a particular political jurisdiction. Endangered species may be at risk due to factors such as habitat loss, poaching and invasive species"
5. "The problem is that you make no quantitative argument. Or pull it out of your ass. Like this 1 out of 10k based on what? Did you interact with enough people to say something like that? "
well, ive met well over 200, and ive handled the personal devices of thousands, so i can safely say i have a large sample size i think i have an accurate position there... and good lord was hygiene an issue too
"It’s a rhetorical question, the answer is no, even if you want to say yes."
so you have zero intention of actually thinking about what i said unless i spoon feed you "authoritative" sources on the subject? seems pretty pointless because i hold the same opinion of you saying otherwise about the competency of visa workers...
6. "gets to claim whatever number he thinks it is from his experience at infosys and we decide all the us policies based on that? Otherwise it’s horshit if we have an issue with this? This is ridiculous."
Well the numbers are FAR to high to remain sustainable for anyone but the government, visa workers, and multinational corporations, but please, tell me at what point are we to stop importing competition and flooding the market with workers?
7. if using the wrong form of YOU is enough for you, then entire sentences not making sense must mean nothing?
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@baban7887
"The sentences are making sense. Just by reading the thread It seems you’ve had trouble understanding even perfect English when you were talking to the other guys. So maybe you’re the one who should try harder."
No, when i said this doesnt make sense it was for a specific quote that didnt actually make sense... your ESL shows pretty hard... and stop insulting me instead of addressing what i said. its pretty lowIQ
"Also, you can’t possibly ignore that English is one of India two official languages. If I were Indian, chances are I’d made less mistakes. It’s a weird inference to make, really. I mean I get it’s partly a joke or a taunt, but I also already told you I wasn’t.
Because i worked with indians, spoke with indians, and sadly, smelled indians. you can tell me that they dont all have terrible accents, terrible grasp of the linguistics of the language, and they smell terrible all the time. I cant smell through a computer screen but i can read...
"Are those issues with biracial kids supposed to be downstream from genetics?
No, bit im not going to dig up studies for you do blatantly ignore them, so look it up yourself...
"
Pseudo science and fear mongering, only meant to secure the vote, for demagogues, in a 73 percent white country, with detrimental consequences for all other minorities"
Dude, its embarrassing how wrong you are... minorities are treaded better in white nations than nay other nations on the planet...
"I don’t even see how this « maintain the white majority to maintain the culture » is in any way realistic or makes any sense."
By not importing millions of people and diluting the culture nation heritage, and people... but go off about how much you love globalism because you benefit from it...
"Your culture is going to evolve either way, no matter who is in it"
Thanks for again demonstrating you dont understand nations or culture
"if British, French, Italian, Spanish, German, east European all with arguably already very different cultures, managed to mix here, it seems very arbitrary to exclude the rest.
Because every group you list listed is european. indians are not euros, somalians are not euros, cape verdians are not euros... stop pretending all peoples are the same
"All of those used to be at war all the time."
literally irrelevant every nation has warred with people exactly like then all through out history. makes zero relevance here.
"They were not just one nation in Europe and during WWII the point was even made that they were not just one race"
they arent the same, but they are closer than any other groups, which is why they can coexist together...
"And now you’re here drawing that arbitrary line that all these white people from Europe can form a Nation but the rest cannot be a part of it...Sorry I am not following, it makes no sense."
because you arent being honest or grasping what im telling you, and its sad...
"It only makes sense the way everyone told you: some bullshit ideology only meant to rally you under a banner"
This is just clearly projection for your globalist ideology... hilarious
"Look at you even wondering: « how do we undo so many years of immigration? "
here is a better question, why the fck werent we asked? we were forced to accept this by government edict. they said it wont change the demographics of the nation, but then 40 years later the largest demographic shift in history has taken place, and now they gaslight us saying well changing demographics doesnt change the nation, but we all know thats a lie.,
" It’s bad enough that you’d want to do that, but at least it’s reassuring you haven’t decided to implement a final solution and just recognize there’s just no good way."
bullshit, you can literally just throw them all out. we have LITERALLY done this multiple timrs in the history of said nation... but again, keep going off about how wonderful this is to destroy nations because you benefit from it... makes you a more sick and disturbing person than whatever you project onto me dude...
"I don’t even know what’s expected of me btw,"
to be fcking honest, and not just hurl insults like an intellectual child...
"do I have to repeat the argument Lucid Dreams already made"
is this supposed to be a question?
"Even Europe being multicultural, someone else already told you."
yeah this isnt a complete sentence... but go off about how im dumb again
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@baban7887
"Someone before me, already made the argument that Europe is multicultural."
Its not, dutch, germans, and irish living together isnt " multicultureal"
"You asked me to stop using a label to avoid discussion, I told you why I think your ideology makes no sense, what the rationale for its existence would be, and what the negative consequences are. I can’t articulate more than that."
except you didnt do that, you didnt address what i said, you made a strawman based on your labels, and then used that as the basis of your points... get over yourself
"Regarding the negative consequences, namely that it is detrimental to minorities"
so is the process of evolution, and intelligence, but we cant talk about that
"Your answer was a fallacy. Anyone can demand equality, and should never have to settle for less, just because they would be treated even worse anywhere else. It’s actually an obscene rhetoric"
excuse me.? what?
"it should be noted too, that when I say “in a 73 percent white country”, I thought it would be clear that I was talking about the US. How minorities are treated in Norway is irrelevant to the point I am making."
So why the fck are you talking about it?
"Besides, you later bluntly suggest to kick them all out."
And what do you do with guests in your house staying long past their welcome
"So really, the fact that your ideology is detrimental to minorities, should never even be disputed and yet somehow you come back at me with “it’s embarrassing how wrong I am”, or in another part of your response that I am dishonest."
So anything that is pro-non minority is detrimental to minorities. got it. so anything involving whites is bad for blacks.. thanks, i know your are a Europhobe, but this just makes it easier to comprehend..
"Is there something wrong with my ESL here?
Yeah, makes it abundantly clear your position here. I assumed you were indian based on your speech patterns, but i maybe wrong... its obviously a group that benefits from the mass globalization, and you directly benefit from it,. so better not change that
" “Detrimental to minorities” is the meaning not clear?""
its perfectly clear anything pro W people is auto bad for non w people. but even if things are bad for W people, as long as it doesnt negatively effect non w people, you are ok with that. Europhobe
"Still, they are different enough that it barely matters."
and groups with more/larger differences dont assimilate... weird sort of was my point
"It is easier to bring together two persons from opposite parts of the world believing in a common ideology, than a Swedish and an Italian with completely opposite views"
no, and the fact that you think that is eye opening for me. A swede and an italian, with different religions, creeds, and ways of life will always have more in common than an average somalian indian, or cape verdian... fullstop
"Speaking of Italian, during their period of immigration to the US, they also suffered discrimination."
yeah, and it turns out that it meant nothing long term, and was essentially a vessel for assimilation. which just doesnt happen anymore... wonder why
"But that didn’t destroy your nation. Granted, It might have changed your culture, but your nation seems fine, or arguably even better for it"
yeah, its called assimilation. something some groups can do but others cant. please keep illustrating my point while not even comprehending it.
"And therefore no, you’re not going to convince me that I am destroying your Nation because I am fine with reducing the ratio of McDonalds to Indian restaurants."
nice, totally dismiss me entire point about peoples and cultures, and slap it down to mc ds... dishonest as fck dude. no wonder you act like this... you dont have an argument...
"And at this point I don’t need to be projecting anything, between your anti-Indian rants"
nothing i said was inaccurate, prove me wrong... you are telling me im wrong, denying my lived experiences, and denying studies that prove my point. i can only assume yo are indian at this point....
"where you are completely unhinged and your suggestion to kick everyone out"
this isnt unhinged, and the nation has done this before... the fact that you act like this proves you know nothing if my country and care not for it. this is why you are so for the destruction of it... its disgusting how europhobic you are being and you cant even fathom that you are acting worse than i am... because you are benefiting from it...
"you can tell me or yourself that I am the one who is sick and disturbing all you want, that doesn’t make it true and clearly I won’t lose sleep over that."
you are denying my peoples right to exist, and insist on plunging the world into a one world globalist nightmare... because you benefit from it... its disturbing, and you can pretend all you want..
"Anyway, I tried to explain my reasons for thinking this ideology is just a pretext, and not a project that would really benefit your country"
no you didnt, you called me a name, and based your entire argument around who you strawmanned me to be instead of what i actually said.... because you have no arguments... but thanks anyway
"The main reason is that it keeps moving and seems to always be placed wherever the dominant majority wants it to be. That’s why I mentioned the example of the Italian, or WWII in a previous post."
except that italians are a European peoples... pretending they arent white euros is Europhobic as you are denying the existence of euros as a group of peoples..
"I am sure if I cited the studies that tends to demonstrate the positive effects of immigration and diversity, you d say that they’re bullshit and propaganda"
because it is, and you benefit from it. the types of people who benefit from mass immigration and globalization of COURSE will always say how great it is.... because they benefit from it... but go on telling me about how the people who directly benefit from this financial and labor influx is telling you how great it is... my nation is a home, not a shopping mall. stop being a Europhobe and stop cheering for globalization...
"i ll at least say that it’s a very plausible hypothesis that cutting all immigration and trying to maintain a white majority, or any specific race for that matter, is self destructive"
How? is wanting to exist with your own people evil? why is it that most " minorities" have nations of their own people to go do, but instead travel to the lands my ancestors built... stop. pretending that this mass globalization and smashing together of peoples and cultures is a good thing you have no understanding of people or history... but keep cheering globalization.... you benefit from it...
"There’s no way you’ll be convinced of it, I know. I don’t care."
I know, because you are a Europhobe who benefits from the destruction of my nation, my people, and the mass globalization of this world, run by a handful of rich oligarchs who have zero care for the health of nations and would destroy them for profit, and HAVE DONE SO for generations...
"You asked me to do more than just calling you a Nazi to avoid discussion. I think I have at least done that.
except you didnt do anything except deny white people existence, because Italians and swedes exist. then you tell me they dont deserve a homeland, then you tell me that flooding the nation with foreigners is a good thing and that wanting to kick them out makes me an evil person
you are dishonest, a blatant Europhobe, and globalist..
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@baban7887
"These 3 already speak 3 different languages, and that's not the only difference. And Europe is a little bit more than that. Dishonest as f.ck"
LOL so a handful of ethnic groups with a common ancestor, simmilar living conditions, and religions is " multicultureal" to you? i mean i guess... but they are still far closer than somalians, or cape verdians.
"No, I labeled you because you perfectly fit the label. And when you said I was labeling you to avoid discussion I went into discussing it in details."
No you didnt address anything, and you doubled down... but thanks
"And here comes more of the pseudo science."
LOL at your life. i guess speciation, adaptation, and evolution are all just pseudoscience to you.. wonderful... im sure youll go far
"Your answer was a fallacy. Anyone can demand equality, and should never have to settle for less, just because they would be treated even worse anywhere else"
Uhhh equality is a meme, no one is "equal", you can have common decency, and work with and help others, but pretending that its for some fantasy of equality is a joke no one should take seriously...
"Because you said minorities are treated better in white countries than anywhere else, as a response to something I said about the US. Therefore, I am saying that we don't care about Norway in the present discussion"
Sure, but minorities ARE treated better in the US than most everywhere else on the planet, but ok
"This is not your house"
Wrong, this is my home, and has been the home for me and my people, specifically my family for over 200 years. you are wrong and lack the understanding of what im trying to articulate to you...
"They work, pay taxes, sleep in a place they bought or rented, buy their own food, obey all your country laws."
except when they dont, and except that they were never my guests, i never invited them, and my country was sold out from under me while i was growing up.
"You're not an innocent victim who found people squatting his yard. And you're not the owner of the house. You're more like an overreaching brother who tells his siblings who they should or should not marry, based on race, justifying with a pretext story about preserving the family traditions, and saying this is going to be the end of the bloodline."
So you dont care about your own people? your lineage? you are just another globalist cog in teh machine? good for you, id id not choose this for my people or my homelands. so stop pretending im the bad guy for saying "NO"
"So anything that is pro-non minority is detrimental to minorities. got it. "
I laughed so hard reading this one. "Oh it's like that huh, we can't rig the game in our favor anymore?!?! " Yes, it's like that. I like how you act shocked for something that seems so obvious. It is SO UNFAIR to be asked to be fair..."
LOL what the fck are you talking about dude? the west has been pro non white for literal decades. the endless pandering and gifts given to non whites is astounding. it hasnt been " fair" since before the endless civil rights push. you can pretend all you want, but thats the reality you seem to be avoiding
"Oh yeah sure, when people think like you, even an English and a Pole can't live together."
Why? is this because you are arguing with your preconceived notion of my arguments and thoughts and not the actual ones i point out? crazy its like ive been saying that all along... Yes an English and a pole can live together. this fits into everything i said. which you clearly arent reading, you are just arguing against a strawman you built up of me... its sad...
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@baban7887 "But, the point is that, US is built on different foundations"
No, it was built on euro blood and Christian values. but you are just ignoring historical reality
"It is not sufficient to be European"
Yes, it is... Full stop
"and it is not necessary either"
No, it is very necessary. but you cant see that
"as the "rohit" example illustrates."
it illustrates nothing. as "rohit" is the exception that proves the rule...you can have a tiny handful of rohits in a huge white nation, but you cant just endlessly import hundreds of thousands every year and expect the country to stay the same... you are naïve
"A swede and an italian, ... have more in common than an average somalian indian....."
Like what? what do they have in common then? why is it needed?
Common ancestry, similar physical attributes, and societies that are easier to assimilate into each other.
"Yeah... the Italian don't open Italian restaurants, Pizza is american food as we all know, and there isn't an entire section of the city I live in, called Little Italy."
yeah its crazy it turns out italians are very simmilar to europeans... funny that
"Or even if there is, it's fine, because they are not Asian."
i mean asians have FAR more land and culture than most on the planet, but they insist on coming to my home and brining their home with it.
"You're the one who came up with the restaurants thing. You also said "diluting the culture heritage" or something like that. So it does sound like the problem is in the ratio of cultural elements that you claim versus the ones you are rejecting."
Yeah? and your argument was " mc ds is American culture" while ignoring that mc ds is an end result of an endless parade of manufactured culture from the toip down in the form of corporatocracy. If you went all " murricians culture like steak guns and burgers" id say, yeah thats funny and mostly true... but you went with mcds? thats like the lowest of the low of good burgers
That's gonna be tough. Hi Khartik (haha I know, so cliche), can I just introduce you to ootsmart here, he says he's never seen an Indian who doesnt stink and is not a complete fraud. If you can, try to dissimulate your nasty accent too, because it tends to get on his nerve.
Yeah, you can sutbly mock me all you want, but i know what i saw. i can still smell the smell.. it was a distinct smell i can only ever smell from indians and it soaks into the laptop bags so much it makes the cardboard boxes they get shipped back in stink... and i watched my new manager with a 100k salary, who cant open a laptop or understand how to install an operating system, took a dump, and went back to work without washing his hands. I know he knows hes supposed to wash, because he does when others are in the bathroom, but he thought he was alone... its disgusting..... also, yeah, when i call for tech support on something, id like to be able to understand the help technician. but noooooo we cant have that because indian call centers are cheaper.....
"Here is the thing though, I don't know anyone whose dream job is to work at Infosys"
I mean a corporate job with benefits from a large profitable outfit doing easy work in air conditioned offices isnt a dream job? i mean to each their own... but thats apparently only for indians... see, when they come here on visas, make 75-150k a year for a few years, and could retire in india on that with the exchange rates that way the were when i researched this a few years ago. so excuse me if that doesnt sound like a good deal
"then tell us if the Indian there are still massively incompetent."
they are. every single one (minus 1Prem was ok, didnt do any of the things i mentioned... except he still stunk, but had the self awareness to keep his sandals on wash his hands, and wear Deodorant) ive met had a massively overinflated ego, thought they could do no wrong, and were always the smartest guy in the room. it was a joke
"It only shows how wrong you can be."
Ok, so whats your story big guy?
"I am assuming you're a bitter computer repair guy, or something just as insignificant and uninteresting"
LOL neat, look at you with your ego
"who acts like he owns the place because his white ancestors came in the 1800s"
Uhh thats sorta how NATIONS work dude, i didnt make the rules
"Oh my! Oh my! Did I disrespect your country long tradition of disgusting racist policies, by not acknowledging it? "
Wow so when i give you historical precedent for legal ways of dealing with this, you just call it racist because it seeked to keep the nation and its people from being turned into globalists non persons who have no home and only culture is the one pushed top down by the oligarchs? sounds fckin AWESOME dude
"It works for everything, since after all, there's no such thing as a bad habit."
Making sure demographics are stable to ensure the existence of the nation as it was, is a bad thing? but turning it into a global shopping plaza and destroying all sense of identity is a good thing? cmon dude you arent even trying
"You're basically telling me you want to keep shitting in your pants, because you're been shitting in your pants so many time before. And you even try to shame me for not knowing this about you, as it is something that really defines you! It makes so much sense, I dont even know how I am still not convinced after such a compelling argument."
because you arent here with any honest intentions... this comparison shows that clear as day...
"No one is denying you that right"
Uhhh the globalists who are flooding white nations with non whites are doing a very good job with their replacement migration... but yeah, nothing wrong with that... just turning every white nation into a worse brazil is such a wonderful thing to look forward to...
"You're just acting like a primate, too territorial, and telling us you can't exist if there's anything non white in your sight, or at least, that you wont exist if you're not part of an overwhelming majority."
Uh thats how it works dude. also people cant exist in lands they have? they MUST share it with everyone else? secondly, do you know what ha-pens to whites in south africa? you really think its a good idea to make them minorities all over their own nations? every single white country in the world is set to be majority non white in the next 20 years... wtf do you call that?
"While writing that, didn't you think, even just for a second that it might be far-fetched? "
No
"How? is wanting to exist with your own people evil? "
This answer is juxtaposed to a part where I say it is self destructive, which is not the same meaning as evil at all, like seriously, even with my bad ESL, I am still pretty sure of that. But I guess we still cannot talk about your reading skills..."
So you still havent answered why its a bad thing. you just changed wording and insulted me... neato
"why is it that most " minorities" have nations of their own people to go do, but instead travel to the lands my ancestors built.."
"Maybe same reason your ancestors did it in the first place. What made your ancestors more deserving of that right than anyone else?"
This is you not answering the question. shocking
"but keep cheering globalization.... you benefit from it..."
And you don't intend to benefit from kicking out whoever you want?
so telling people to go back where they came from and stop coming is bad, but endless flooding of nations with foreigners is a good thing, because denying them that would be racist? wow seems like racist is just an anti w hite slur to shame them into doing things against their best interests.... hmmmmmm
"No, I am not advocating for this for my personal benefit, I just consider that no one should be denied the opportunity I was given just based on race."
Translation, ive already benefitted from other peoples work, and i want more to benefit from it. Good thing this opportunity was created by people who arent yours, and have nothing to do with you, but thats not something you even care about anyway...
" That's my way of being honest and fair.""
Nothing about this is fair, and YOU have been nothing but dishonest and rude this entire time.
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@Wintermute909
"Yeah "play their game, by their rules".
That's a winning strategy."
Buddy, you arent even playing the same game as them,. They make the rules of engagment, they control the language you use to even address the points in the engagment, and you tell me, that dealing with them on the same base level is a losing strategy, while still playing by their rules. remarkable
"And then you could repackage the feminist "all CEOs are men therefore patriachy" into "all media ownership.... Therefore...." "
you know this is dumb and has no bearing on what i said right? its sad and pathetic
"You can beg for scraps from the leftist, racist intersectional, identitarian table if you want, but I'm not gonna debase my principals like that dude."
you are clearly a guy who thinks hes smarter than he really is...You are giving the left ownership of any form of group/identity collective. you are already losing before you even show up to the debate, and you cant even see that for what it is.... amazing
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@FACTBOT_5000 Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof on application to any common law Court of record in any one of the States wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least, and making proof to the satisfaction of such Court that he is a person of good character, and taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by law to support the Constitution of the United States, which Oath or Affirmation such Court shall administer, and the Clerk of such Court shall record such Application, and the proceedings thereon; and thereupon such person shall be considered as a Citizen of the United States. And the children of such person so naturalized, dwelling within the United States, being under the age of twenty one years at the time of such naturalization, shall also be considered as citizens of the United States. And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States
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@pog519
"The social structure democratic socialists advocate for is a parliament, which naturally includes more than just one party, and that is why it cannot be a totalitarian as opposition is directly involved in every choice."
This sounds like it turns into a uniparty with different badging... kinda like the us two party system, but with more than two parties....
What you actually get in a democratic socialist society is bunch of regulations on how corporations can treat their employees, for instance:
1) Employers have to pay your work related taxes, including health insurance (and since companies want to be competitive they normally provide you with extra health insurance)
taxation is theft, and i shouldnt be forced to have healthcare
3) Employer is forced to pay you more (in cases triple the wage) for extra hours put, night work and so on
Overtime is soclaist? wtf?
Basically what the European socialism is trying to do is to prevent people from being used as modern slaves, as they are in the US.
Yeah, so we can be slaves to a different system doing the same thing with a different flavor on it? cmon now
I'll leave you with this video so you understand what people mean by socialism (and what it actually is), despite how absurdly misinterpreted the US people understand it:
i tried, stopped listening at " the electoral college is silly"
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@pog519
"you basically dislike both socialism and capitalism alike, and are just writing for the sake of having an argument."
No im just pretty sure we disagree on terms. Me, wanting to be able to sell the fruits of my labor for profit is considered capitalism to myself, would you disagree with this assessment?
"Also don't say shit like "never work", because these policies exist in whole of Europe and Canada, and since all of these "socialist" countries rank higher than the US in almost all welfare categories, you don't get to say "it never works", because it does work."
Yeah yeah heard it all before, lies damned lies and statistics. no one ever leaves socialized health are nations to non socialized healthcare nations for medical care. This also ignores all the public funding dumped into the medical industry in the first place, and it doesnt even address the problems with healthcare in the first place " spoiler, its government involvement"
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@pog519
"You know I've been working with Americans for almost 8 years now, I've talked with them on various things... One of them had to get a hip replacement, and even when insured in the US, it costs 2 times as much as the same thing without insurance in Germany, and Germany is one of the most expensive in Europe"
Again, WHY does it cost so much? WHY is the part you are ignoring here. the government is WHY its so expensive for the same reason the insurance companies want it to be expensive. The same reason hospitals want it expensive... because its all corrupt. simply expanding on whats already here isnt going to fix the problem...
"Sure, US spends the most money on healthcare in the world and is like 40% more than the 2nd highest, yet everything in the US is still more expensive, because hospitals work as corporate entities (for profit organizations) and not as a humanitarian ones. The problem with the US is not that they are not putting enough money into healthcare, it's because they are treating sick people as customers that buy their health."
Because the government profits from this, because insurance companies profit from this, because drug companies profit from this... This also doesn't address the fact that there are other non medical related expense differences between nations that also effect it.
"You are not disagreeing with a term, you are trying to change it."
No i asked you if me wanting to profit from my own hard work and labor is capitalism and you didnt answer it
"What i gave you was the definition of socialism.... in turn you provided me with the definition of totalitarianism :D"
communism is the end goal of socialism. You want more government regulation, laws, and enforcement, well those all come down at the barrel of a gun. I dont want more government, because that is just playing into the problem reaction solution that these very entities you claim are so terrible want.
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@pog519
"capitalism caters to the entrepreneurs"
This is a good thing, self employed and small businesses are the backbone to a functioning economy
"and is making the rich - richer and the poor - poorer"
That would be the government taxing and regulating the little guy into oblivion while pandering to the rich multinational global elites
"Unless you are a business owner you do not benefit from capitalism yourself"
Small business is essential, and if more people could start their own businesses the better, but in order to do that, you have to bend to the will of the state, and pay the state fees to do things. almost like they are in the way of the little guy making it in the economy .. hmmm im beginning to notice a trend here
"a social system will award you more for your labor, and than again no one is advocating about abolishing the private sector, just to have regulations that do not permit them to treat employees as slaves."
But those rules dont matter because people break them anyway, also while importing millions of workers via immigration or visa work while simultaneously destroying small business and the self employed...
"The political system is a ideology, it doesn't have an end goal and with a strong opposition present in parliaments - it can't even turn into communism as it still remain democratic"
No. it will continue to grow and expand, as this is how all governments inevitably end up with people clamoring for the government to keep doing more to interfere with the country and the economy...
the answer is not more government, its less government and less taxes...
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@pog519
"you somehow think I believe that a fully socialist country would be better off, which is not what I am referring to - that is indeed bound to implode like it has in every country that tries it"
never said that, all i said/implied was socialism leads to more socialism, then eventually to communistic authoritarianism
What I advocate for is that some social policies are better than the alternative
Ok, but social programs are not "socialism"
"For instance I do not think healthcare should be a for profit business"
Ok, but how does get paid for working as a doctor? The problems with healthcare arent because its a for profit industry ( anything would need to be " for profit" or it wouldnt survive at all" its that corruption, government interference, and lobbying create the scenarios where the regulators, the insurance agencies, and the hospitals make billions of dollars while destroying healthcare. Making the government ( taxpayer) pay for more of it will only exacerbate the problems, just like the government ruined college education finances... more government and more tax dollars arent going to fix these issues
"And there should be a limit on how businesses can treat their employees to avoid modern slavery"
why do you keep implying like there is no regulations or labor laws in the US? All of the suggestions you made already exist in varying forms in the country, your just saying the government needs to do more.
"govt should not be controlling the market"
Right, and giving governments more power and money will NEVER solve ANY problem..
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@eggynack no they dont
we went over this multiple times but you just like to lie to people
"Immigrant workers increased US GDP by about 1.7 trillion, or 10.7% in 2013. The vast bulk of this gain went to the immigrants themselves. Only 2% went to natives.
For native-born Americans, immigration s major impact is distributional: It lowers the wages of native born workers and raises the income of their employers and other upper income natives who derive disproportionate share of their income from capital gains, stock options and other non-wage income. By increasing the number of workers in the economy, immigration lowers the wages of native born workers. At the same time however native born employers gain from immigration because they can now hire workers at lower wages. Native born consumers also gain , especially the wealthy. Similarly natives who derive most of their income from dividends, capital gains, and other non wage income gain as immigration drives up corporates profits. Immigrations biggest winners then, at least among us natives, are the wealthy, while its biggest losers are disproportionally found among the nations poor and middle class. Clearly immigration exacerbates the economic divide of the have and the have nots. Current levels of over one million legal admissions per year, and defacto amnesty and non enforcement policies that serve to protect those aliens who are here unlawfully are only placing greater economic strain on those citizens who can afford it least. "
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i mean thats now nations work my guy
maybe SOME people should remember that when it comes to their own nations being taken from them
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
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@0wn-nothing-be-happy
I am not anti-white"
You can say that but your opinions are clearly anti white
"I just don't think white is an interesting distinction"
Oh, so the demographic eraser of my people is not interesting?
pretty anti white dude
"or even one that is consistent throughout history or based on hard science"
" Bro what is white, you cant define it so it doesnt exist"
Pretty anti white
"Race is a handy tool to divide and control people."
Race isnt a " tool" its a natural existence of being..... pretending that shoving a bunch of different groups together and then when people point out they are different, that isnt " divide and control" that part was when they shoved a bunch of unlike groups together and told them they were all the same when they can clearly see they are not...
Pretty anti wite still
"I like freedom. Freedom to move and associate as you wish."
Yeah, unless thats White peoples freedom to be free among whites and associate among whites... turns out we have to share out countries with the entire world instead... doesnt seem very free now does it? and " freedom of association"? we cant have that since the civil rights movement
:If you only want to hang out with people you think are white, ok."
Um its clearly not. that is " white spremacy" and " racism" for whites wanting to be around whites...
blatantly anti white at this point dude i dont know what you think you are trying to say
"I like white people stuff"
Then why do you not care they they will cease to exist?
you are anti white
(is Greek white tho? idk).
short answer, yes
long answer, Well since people like you like to pretend white doesnt exist by constantly asking " is this white i dont think this is white" and therefore white doesnt exist, its a pretty anti white stance, as every single one of those you listed is " white" when compared to every other group on the planet, but please, continue displaying your anti white opinions continue
"Cornel West is a thoughtful chap."
cmon man...
socialist? Check
anti white? Check
pro isreal? check
"Who cares who somebody's pussyhole somebody came out of?"
The fact that you ask this question means you really have zero clue about what you THINK you are talking about...
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@0wn-nothing-be-happy
"I didn't know Seagal had a Jewish dad"
Yah know, you would be surprised how over represented they are in all areas of fame/power/finance
"See how hard it is to even know what white is and isn't?"
No its pretty easy, you are just anti white
"According to YOU"
No, according to the most jewish of jews
"Scarlett Johansson is not white because it is ok with you for people that present as white to exclude themselves for cultural reasons."
No, you seem to not get it. You seem to be conflating ethnic jewishness with the religion of Judaism. If she has jewish genetic ancestry, she is jewish and not white. if there is no jewish blood, she is just a " white" who happens to be " jewish"
"But, someone with dark features, like say, the prime minister of Spain, is white, right?"
"So, if Scarlett Johansson isn't white, but Pedro Sanchez is white but is darker than her, what is the definition of white?"
Debatable, as there is european blood in the linage of many in spain, but they wold be more" part white", BUT they are distinct enough to not necessarily be " white" to all " white" groups. But i fail to see the importance to americian migration and the rapidly dwindling " white" groups ( german, french, dutch, etc), meanwhile, the same sorts of mass immigration are happening anywhere " whites" are, like in the UK
"If we are classifying people based on appearance, I don't know at what point we would include or exclude people."
because you arent classifying people based on appearances, probably because you think " race" is just skin color or some nonsense
"The dictator in Syria looks pretty white to me. Is he white, too?"
Again, " looking white" is meaningless
"Islam?"
totally separate topic, but i would even shun and denounce " white" islamists
"Can you tell me how to know where whiteness begins and ends?"
European blood
"What about Obama?"
LOL no
"Steven Seagal's mom was white too. Is one drop of white blood enough to classify you as white?"
Depoends on a dna test for jewish ethnic relations, already talked about this
"What amount of European DNA is required to qualify as white?"
At least 90%? like " is obama white" is such a dumb dishonest question, im starting to think you arent even serious about what your own opinions are...
What does this have to do with the mass importation from CLEARLY non " whites" ( indians, south americians, cape verdians, haitians, somalians) and the rapidly declining numbers of whites in even their own homelands? ( france, germany, sweden)
let me ask you a hypothetical question...
Japan (~125 million people)
India (~1,336 million people)
If you had mass immigration from indian into japan, what would happen to the population of japan? would the japanese continue to exist becoming minorities in their own homeland?
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@0wn-nothing-be-happy
"I had avoided ypur references about Japan and the European ethnostates up to now because I have had that conversation with a race hustler like you before"
Oh, ok, so answering what happens when you displace one people with another is " race hustling"? cmon, you cant be that dishonest
"You can call me anti white and I can shrug it off as meaningless in the same way wokescolds call me racist for not bowing to all of their nonsense about everything being about race."
Yeah, because leaving all topics of racial discussion to the "wokescolds" ( thats a new one) means you allow them to control the narrative... so good job letting them win i guess
"I will leave you with my opinion of race hustling in general:
"You are stuck in a false tribal mentality that is a good way to control people because we evolved in small tribal bands and are genetically programmed to serve our group."
So, you are telling me, the pattern of behavior that has led to the continued existiance of mankind, is now " false" and that people talking about it are all " race hustlers"
pretty terrible take....
"Race hustling hijacks that evolutionary programming and replaces a small in group with a huge, amorphous group."
Uh, no, im pretty sure " race hustlin" is just the name of the game every single group ( in white majority countries mind you) are allowed to do... ya know, affirmative action, quotas, diversity programs, advocacy groups, etc etc etc.... ya know, the inevitable outcome of "diversity"
"We have also developed cultural programming that is far more sophisticated than our simple evolutionary programming."
excuse me? that sounds like brainwashing a group of people against their wills
"The individual is primary in modernity, and our urges toward in group biases are just relics of our natural past."
the cult of individualism doesnt work when the rest of the world doesnt ascribe by it
"If you want to advocate for dismantling modernity in favor of a return to nature, I am on board.
Sure? modernity is cancer
"If you want to use our inferior hardware to run your divide and rule program on a large population, you are stuck in the lower thinking of your brain or you are an unprincipled opportunist."
WTF are you even trying to articulate here
"White people are people. You can be obsessed with the adjective, but you have no choice but to be the noun."
Wow amazing such wisdom... you are a joke and are so far indoctrinated into your anti white " cultural programming" to see that
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@HerotPM
"I'm saying they ought to be legalized."
I agreed
The violence involved in the trade goes away because legal businesses don't tend to shoot each other for their competitors turf.
Right, but you dont think the cartel would continue to operate regardless? you dont think people will still sell drugs not through "licensed authorized dealers" (just another government hoop to gatekeep who can participate just like every other industry) It would end up creating two competing markets, the normal above board market, and the grey market. Just like weed is sold illegally even though its " legal" to buy it.
"And we know this would end the gang violence that is fueled by the drug war the same way as it ended the mob wars surrounding alcohol prohibition.
Again, you seem to think making drugs legal would have these gangs stop the violence. and i doubt prohibition is why the mob violence died down
"That only happens over products that have been criminalized like drugs and alcohol. "
Except gangs kill each other over shoes, watches, cars, tvs, phones, women, insults, turf .... its not the drugs causing the violence, and legalizing drugs isnt going to magically make it stop
"Just like the gang violence around drugs didn't exist before the drug wars, it would stop after"
yeah instead you will just have regular violence, not drug violence. like winning with semantics
"The before and after the drug war should make it very clear if you don't accept the obviously good example of alcohol prohibition."
But it was a terrible example because alcohol prohibition isnt like the drug war because its not one thing, and its not about easily homemade liquids. pretending its the same is pretending making vodka is the same as cooking meth, or heroin... its not thats the point. Im not arguing for the continuation of the drug war. im arguing that pretending its is going to to much of anything with cartel or gang violence is just not really in the cards
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@ec6621
you sound a bit defeated.
Yeah, because you dismissed everything out of hand, and you default position is that im wrong and have no proof. then when you ask for proof, you dont actually care, so you just dismiss it or give me the party line explaining we investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong.
I genuinely wanted to know what has you so convinced that Trump won. I know people who don't think, they know , that Trump won. And I chat with them like I've been chatting with you. Unfortunately, they get a bit defensive over over my probing so I can't always continue the conversation with them. So I'd like to thank you for engaging with me this long.
Its not probing if you just dismiss everything and feed me establishment propaganda...
I genuinely don't think I'm dismissing what you bring up.
Except the part where you did repeatedly, then occasionally move the goalpost to be " well that was not large enough to change anything"
For example, you said "hundreds of affidavits", after my insisting on details you came around to narrowing it down to "I saw this happening" affidavit(s).
So its not that they exist, its that you just dismiss them as heresy without looking at anything at all, and arent even humoring the idea that this was a massive fraud...
That's not dismissing your point, that's wanting to verify the evidence.
No, thats just dismissing them. You ask for evidence, i point to it, you tell me thats not good enough...
I don't expect to be able to hold the actual affidavit in my hands (that's not the level of evidence I'm expecting you to produce), but if Guilliani or other private citizens filed the lawsuit and presented this affidavit, I'd love to read about it.
Sure so would i, but we arent going to get anything
Same with the "statistically impossible" figure; I'd love to review the statisticians methodology.
You can literally look into anything involving the bellwether states, previous years votes, but you would know about it if you bothered to look into any of it, instead of your default position being theres no fraud...
Same with the Dominion switching votes claim; I'd love to know why you think "vote switching" happened as opposed to the explanation of "human error" and the verification of accurate machine tallying via audits.
Because it literally happened? and thats just the times we caught it? again, you are dismissive of everything i said under the guise of neutrality
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@ec6621 First off, im gonna let you know that making 5 separate short comments is actually really annoying me now. cut it out
"What is your default position?"
That the news is filled with liars, the government is filled with liars, the judicial is filled with liars, every alphabet agency is filled with lairs...
"Except that I haven’t’ dismissed your points, I’ve asked for more details. And you don’t provide them"
No thats exactly what you did, you explained them away with nonsense from the very people who have been lying to the entire country for decades, but now they are totally not lying this time
"establishment= untrustworthy. Is this so?
"
99.99% of the time yes.
". It seems you and I have a different understanding of the word “dismiss”. To me, it means to: send away; treat as unworthy or unserious; cease to think about, or to refuse to hear."
But thats entirely what you have been doing
"I literally just linked an affidavit"
No you didnt. if you did, its been shadowbanned/deleted. which is also why i hate having these " wheres proof" discussions because youtube arbitrarily will hide any and all links to a discussion
"I HAVE “looked into any of it”"
Then you should have learned about all the statistical anomalies. if you say they arent there, i say you havent seen them, or more importantly havent been spoon fed the appropriate information
"Because it literally happened? and thats just the times we caught it? again, you are dismissive of everything i said under the guise of neutrality”
If I told you: “voting machines switched votes from Biden to Trump. It literally happened. And that’s just the times we caught it”. Wouldn’t you ask me for evidence? Wouldn’t you expect evidence of the “times we caught it”?
You mean the times its been reported on the news? or the other times it gets reported on the news? or did you not catch the project veritas release where they busted a san Antonio woman for fraud.... but i guess youll just tell me " but veritas is fake" or " that isnt widespread enough" or other such nonsense
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@Hello_there_obi
"Au contraire my friend, the one who seems to be leaning on authorative statements and arrogance is you."
so what did i say that was authoritative?
"You just keep saying I know nothing of firearms or firearm law, trying to gaslight me into your point of view and never explaining this accusation or going into firearm laws."
I explained to you why you have no idea what you are talking about. you could have started with that, but you didnt., weird
"And not all laws are moral or the right thing that's why we change them and constantly scrutinize them. I could throw that back at you and say that's just basic law 101. "
has nothing to do with anything i said. go on.....
"Saying I know nothing about firearms or firearm laws does absolutely nothing to address my points or counter them. It just makes you sound like a parrot."
and if you know nothing of firearm's law, or firearms, it means im right, but you cant handle addressing that, so you need to accuse me of parroting some talking points... sad
"And of course demographics are a problem - I already mentioned that if you read my comments to you. But don't try and strawman this and reframe the argument too much. We are talking about gun ownership. And I also mentioned the history of the US and took that into account in my thoughts. Why did you ignore that?"
and how does gun ownership have to do with demographics who commit crime with guns? its almost like im making a point you cant comprehend, and deflect
"When exploring whether or not people should be allowed to own these types of firearms and have this level of easy access to them, rattling off a bunch of laws is not a sound way to argue at all. Especially when you don't say what those are and how they counter my points."
bro, you could literally buy a tommy gun from the back of comics and magazines no mass shootings. we had guns INSIDE of schools used by fking children, no mass shootings.. its almost like you cant comprehend i wat i said, and fkign spend entire paragraphs bullshtting
"At least I am addressing your points"
No you actually address ZERO of my points... keep it up champ
"You just keep insulting my intelligence and refuse to debate properly. So look in the mirror when you call me an arrogant twot."
you addressed nothing i said, and ranted for several paragraphs about something you clearly have zero comprehension of...
keep it up champ
go off
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@Hello_there_obi
ootmaster1
2 weeks ago
@Matt Bolt
"Au contraire my friend, the one who seems to be leaning on authorative statements and arrogance is you."
so what did i say that was authoritative?
"You just keep saying I know nothing of firearms or firearm law, trying to gaslight me into your point of view and never explaining this accusation or going into firearm laws."
I explained to you why you have no idea what you are talking about. you could have started with that, but you didnt., weird
"And not all laws are moral or the right thing that's why we change them and constantly scrutinize them. I could throw that back at you and say that's just basic law 101. "
has nothing to do with anything i said. go on.....
"Saying I know nothing about firearms or firearm laws does absolutely nothing to address my points or counter them. It just makes you sound like a parrot."
and if you know nothing of firearm's law, or firearms, it means im right, but you cant handle addressing that, so you need to accuse me of parroting some talking points... sad
"And of course demographics are a problem - I already mentioned that if you read my comments to you. But don't try and strawman this and reframe the argument too much. We are talking about gun ownership. And I also mentioned the history of the US and took that into account in my thoughts. Why did you ignore that?"
and how does gun ownership have to do with demographics who commit crime with guns? its almost like im making a point you cant comprehend, and deflect
"When exploring whether or not people should be allowed to own these types of firearms and have this level of easy access to them, rattling off a bunch of laws is not a sound way to argue at all. Especially when you don't say what those are and how they counter my points."
bro, you could literally buy a tommy gun from the back of comics and magazines no mass shootings. we had guns INSIDE of schools used by fking children, no mass shootings.. its almost like you cant comprehend i wat i said, and fkign spend entire paragraphs bullshtting
"At least I am addressing your points"
No you actually address ZERO of my points... keep it up champ
"You just keep insulting my intelligence and refuse to debate properly. So look in the mirror when you call me an arrogant twot."
you addressed nothing i said, and ranted for several paragraphs about something you clearly have zero comprehension of...
keep it up champ
go off
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@DigitalGamerPixel thanks for replying
"The melting pot idea was and is a great idea, where we learn and trade with other cultures."
This is not what a melting pot is. You can learn and trade with other cultures without importing said culture. The melting pot is putting all the ingredients in a bowl, and expecting something wroth tasting ever comes out
"That's what the US was supposed to be, an evolution not stagnation"
Um no, the US was meant to be a euro nation, built by and for euros..... "Free whyte men of good character"
"You immigrate from, lets say, Egypt. You bring your knowledge of food recipes, family traditions, holidays, etc and share it with the friends you make here. Then people decide if they want to share those traditions or not. That is the idea of the melting pot."
I dont need to import Egyptians to learn from Egyptian culture. i can visit Egypt and embrace the culture instead of importing it, and diluting my own culture.....
"Imagine never having Mexican, Italian, Japanese, Greek or any other types of food."
"Muh food" is such a tired weak and pointless argument to even bring up. I dont need to import people to learn recipes..
"Imagine not being able to learn any form of martial arts"
Imagine thinking you need to import another culture to lean from a culture. What is this reasoning?
"THAT is what you're saying you want when you don't want us to meld with other cultures where we do a give and take."
No bud, what im saying is that if we import every culture, and " assimilate" every culture, then there will be no culture left in the US at all.
"That is what the US is supposed to be, and it's supposed to be an individual choice of what to adopt or not."
No, it was supposed to be a land for Europeans not for the entire world.
"You're always against gun control. What about cases of mentally ill people?"
Who decides what is or isnt "mentally ill"? what counts as " mentally ill" changes over time.
"We currently have a system in place where if you have a history of spousal abuse, criminal activity, or mental illness you're not allowed a gun, which I feel is right."
We live in a world where a woman can falsely accuse a man of a crime, and he is punished for it anyway. DO you ever look into divorce court? or family court in general? Those people lose their rights too
I disagree with the notion that the state has the right to determine if im able to exercise my god given rights... "Shall not be infringed"
However, I do feel that the criminal record should be case by case basis. If you were a gang member, understandable to not be allowed a gun. If you were just smoking pot or did a white collar crime, there should be some leniency.
How about this compromise/ " the state doesnt get to decide who gets their rights"? hows that sound?
"our criminal system needs an overhaul"
Yeah, i agree.
"We can have a foundation of a strong family within same sex marriages."
No, you actually cant
"They'd be ideal for foster homes"
hard no
"With how LGBT currently are with the gay pride parades and the stuff that goes on there, I can see where you're coming from."
And domestic violent rates, child grape/grooming statistics, the very degenerate nature of the environment...
"Which is why I say it should have stopped at gay marriage"
This is why many were right to outright oppose it. we told you exactly what was going to happen
"If you're in the US your country SHOULD be open for all. It used to be."
Again, you are fundamentally wrong on all counts. "free whyte men of good character" Why the F is my nation open to the whole world? The whole world didnt build it, why do they have the right to it? They dont.
""“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
These are the words engraved on the Statue of Liberty."
That poem was written by a ✡ (who are vastly overrepresented everywhere, especially in global NGOs and pro immigration groups) and ithad NOTHING to do with the statue, and are an abomination of the exact problem im talking about. This is a nation. it isnt a shopping plaza for the entire world to do with it as they please. thats not how nations work.
"Many modern Americans forget that we are a nation founded on immigration and used to welcome it."
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about..... We are a nation founded on settlers and pioneers. NOT immigrants... It wasnt until 1965 that the doors to the entire world were cast open and the demographics of my homeland were forever damaged
Ive been quite blunt, but you are wrong..
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@AmineSamus
"No it makes literally everyone richer. Costs of goods decrease and you have a boost in wages for the vast majority of the country. Every economic study agrees with this.
"Every study agrees with this" this is ludacris how is flooding the supply of labor going to increase wages? in what reality does supply and demand not have effects?
"When i look outside my house.."
So what?
So when i see my town/state/country changing drastically before me, its cause for concern...
Cohesion sounds boring as hell. Why would i want one culture when i can instead get multiple different cultures?
" why would i want social cohesion when i can have balkanized groups of people who isolate themselves from each other"? sounds pretty naïve. almost like you dont understand the concepts of social cohesion and group trust... but why would you?
I don't know what you mean by "little enclaves." You work with foreigners, you share schools with them, you're sometimes neighbors with them. You regularly interact with them if you're going out and buying something. What are you talking about?
What do you mean what am i talking about? do you live in a bubble? when an entire town turns east asian, or another turns Indian, how is that now an enclave? what you just described doesnt happen, and even when it does, people self segregate to like groups.
It wouldn't be worse. Cost of living would decrease, and yes Orange Man is bad. if you don't think he's bad, you're an idiot lol. I don't know how else to really say it, and he was so bad that he increased voter turnout to the highest it's ever been against him just so people can vote him out.
Get outa here with this blind idiocy....
I mean we have a high housing cost problem right now, rent is skyrocketing as well and that's with our current system.
because of endless immigration and visa importation for 60 years, because of government interference in housing, because of banking corruption as well as governmental corruption.
There's no evidence that we'll have an increase in costs with more immigrants, in fact building more housing will just give more people jobs.
You cant build indefinitely, you just cant, logistically its impossible. You just think we can just dump millions into a country and just make it work? you have zerio concept of how the real world works...
Hell yeah money printer go brrr. We're the richest country in the world, increasing funding to improve schools and build more rooms is the best solution here.
Aside from the fact that debt spending into oblivion isnt going to end well, this is a failure from the start
We can spend our money on these programs instead of wars and corporate welfare for instance. We can tax the rich and bring back the estate tax that Trump got rid of because he wanted to enrich himself and his other rich friends.
First off, " tax the rich" isnt gonna work when they lobby government, otherwise they would be doin git now, second off, " death tax" you want the government to tax people for dying too? what is wrong with you? why is it a crime to pass on accumulated wealth to your family? what right does the government have to take and take and take?
I don't know what you mean by "more competition." So what if we have more competition? You're always competing regardless
Simple supply and demand which you clearly cant grasp.
They'll pay taxes just like everyone else is paying taxes. Right now illegal immigrants pay a huge chunk of federal, state and local taxes, while also paying 7 billion into social security, while getting none of the benefits
False, illegals are a massive net loss for government spending
Small number of jobs? Aren't you the people who constantly tout the low unemployment rate under Trump (which he did nothing to lower by the way). More jobs will be created because there'll more demand for them. It's not some zero sum game.
wow its almost like you dont understand what the unemployment rate is. people who no longer collect from unemployment benefits dont count as unemployed. " more jobs will be creates" where? how? there is no reasoning it would work that way.
The original culture doesn't vanish because other cultures come in lmao. You just have more options, though i doubt "culture" is your main issue here.
Then you dont understand the concept of " culture" or even the concept of " nation"
of course you dont, you are probably 15
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@AmineSamus
"Yes every economic study worth its salt agrees that immigration is a net benefit."
I mean other than you not citing anything, i guess if you ignore all the negative effects that technically counts as " net benefit"
I don't understand where you're getting anything from but I'm guessing your info is from some youtuber or Trump himself. it's not correct.
orange man bad I get it, you hate trump and think hes the worst thing ever, but nothing im talking about has anything to do with trump
Why is it a cause for concern? And in what ways will it look different?
Its an entirely different " country" a few towns over. and that isnt a concern? obviously not to you apparently...
I understand "social cohesion" i just think it's wrong.
then you obviously dont understand what social cohesion is...
People don't "live in enclaves" either, where are you getting any of this info from?
I literally live near multiple of them and am in the midst of becoming one right now? I just said it, and you told me so what...you obviously must be far more privleged than me...
And even they did, why does that matter? They'll leave you alone so you won't have to see more brown people.
Except that i will see more and more, because there are more non whites on the planet than whites, therefore with endless immigration what do you thin happens?
What idiocy? Do you honestly think Trump is well liked? He clearly is bad because people overwhelmingly voted against him.
sure they did, nothing weird happened at all, there also wasnt a massive outpouring FOR trump, but yeah, whatever orange man bad
"because of endless immigration" Source? I thought Trump fixed our immigration "probem"?
Yeah i dont know what you think you know, but trumps pretty " pro immigration" and i cant stand it, so riddle me that one
"You can't build indefinitely" What? Do you think we've stopped building houses? It's a literal profession, what do you mean? if demand for houses increases, you build more.
its like you cant conceptualize the idea that there is a finite amount of space, and for people to continue to have a standard of living above favelas, there is no way to keep building forever...
And no one said "dump millions." Of course this increase will be gradual and not some sudden change.
" sudden change" like adding over a million a year? not even counting millions of visas every year? its a DRASTIC change. immigration policy took a drastic change in 1965 and has only gotten worse since...
No one cares about spending.
then there are alot of people without common sense
Were you considered about 'debt spending' when Trump said he'd build the wall with our tax money (because Mexico wouldn't pay) or when our tax money was spent on our border troops?
seriously, rent free dude, rent free...
Also, the " wall" that still isnt done? or are you talking about the concept of border defense not being worth spending money on?
Or the increase in the military budget?
you mean a mere 16% of the federal budget is so massive? wow
Plus spending with returns is well worth it, spending on public schools pays us back in the long run.
then you obviously didnt have the joy of the public education system. We have been increasing spending in education consistently for decades, only for it to continue to get worse. money isnt the problem
"illegals are a massive net loss" Source?
https://www.fairus.org/sites/default/files/2017-09/Fiscal-Burden-of-Illegal-Immigration-2017.pdf
billions of dollars
Why did you ignore everything i said about them paying taxes?
how are they paying taxes? with stolen SS cards? oh ok thats totally fine right?
So you're telling me that the low unemployment rate pre covid was false?
Im telling you the unemployment statistic is a useless metric for measuring healthy labor markets
I mean of course that low unemployment could've been maintained had Trump not botched the covid response
Continues to bring unrelated trump shit into convo
I get it orange man bad. and no his " covid response" wasnt " botched" turn off CNN ffs
What do you mean how? Immigrants usually start their own businesses and thus start hire more people, for instance. There's no evidence that they displace jobs.
They hire other immigrants, and serve other immigrants in neighborhoods that continue to grow with immigrants. literally creating small sections of foreign nations inside another nation. But you deny this phenomenon exists...
I understand the concept of culture.
You DEFINITELY dont understand the concept of culture. But go on
You're under the assumption that culture can only be homogenous when you can easily have multiple cultures.
no, you literally cannot, because they become insular. ive already tried to tell you this but you keep telling me it doesnt happen
America is pretty diverse right now and no existing culture has been dissolved or vanished as a consequence.
What are you talking about? the US was never a " diverse" nation, not until 1965, when the floodgates were opened. then suddenly this 90% white European country is now less than 60% and on track to be a tiny fraction of that in the near future... and you are going to tell me nothing will change? you cant be this naïve can you? how old are you?
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@AmineSamus
Lol okay so it is about white people. Why don't you just say that instead of dancing around this? You don't like black or brown people so you have an issue with immigrants of non-white origin coming in.
So wanting my people to exist is me having an issue with others? no no you misunderstand. i dont want to end up like white south africians in my home country. Id also point out i support japan keeping out mass immigration too because i think that a nations people deserve a chance to continue to exist without being swallowed up by the hoards of the world
The negative effects are outdone by the positives, that's why it's called a net benefit.
And im TELLING you you are misinformed
I'm not citing anything because youtube auto marks my comments as spam sometimes when I do and i'm too lazy to get around that. But you can easily look this up.
yeah and you could easily look up the negative effects of immigration instead of ignoring them or denying they exist
You don't need to build "forever." You build when there's demand for it lol, like how do you not understand how any of this works? It's basic econ.
" basic econ" like the concept of supply and demand you fail to understand? " you just build more" with infinite supplies and space? are you a clown?
I brought up Trump because your complaints all happened under him but your sycophancy is preventing you from seeing that
No they havent they have been happening for 60 years. your TDS is derailing the conversation. Imagine thinking this is all trump fault bahaha
No the country is still the same.
no it literally wont be the same, thats what im trying to articulate to you, but you just deny it and go right back to pre scheduled programming
It's just more people are in it and it makes you uncomfortable because they have different skin colors than you. It's ok bro, just say it.
Yeah skin color is the ONLY thing i care about. not the endless paragraphs detailing my positions. yup, just i hate brown people... gimmie a break you child
No it's just your idea of social cohesion is wrong lol
said by someone who clearly doesnt understand the topic but go off fam
Okay so it is literally just "gov spending is fine as long it's for things i like, but bad for things i don't"
no, not its not, not even close. its a numbers game that you refuse to acknowledge. Border security and military's are two things a government needs to fund. you know what it doesnt need to fund? millions and millions and millions of foreigners flooding into the nation
And what do you mean rent-free? He's the president lmao
If you dont understand the term rent free you are clearly too young for the internet and you should go home
Right now we spend the most on the military than many other advanced nations combined.
Spoiler, were also the third largest country, and have to basically play world police with trade routes and multitudes of other things like nato and the UN ( not that i agree with all of them) but pretending that comparing the US to all the other countries is such a failure of understanding the topic i cant really explain it to you.
We can cut that in half and still be a completely fine superpower.
No, we cant but thanks for playing
We increase taxes on the rich,
Never gonna work when they lobby the law changes into effect dude are you not listening?
and we institute financial taxes and estate taxes so that the rich children who didn't work for their billions get taxed. It's not a "death tax" and it only only applies to the top 0.2% of americans, a group of people who Trump defended these last four years at the expense of working people.
.02% of Americans? seems like you arent understanding. the federal limit is 11 million, but the state limits are much smaller, some being only 1 million. It is literally a death tax. its a tax on your entire estate when you die. so everything you own is added up and thats what its taxed on. do you not know what you are discussing here? with the rate of inflation and housing prices the way they are, single homes in your average suburb in blue states are closing in on close to the estate limit with just the home.
You were talking about low number of jobs, which is why I brought up unemployment. If you agree that those jobs don't pay enough, then I agree with you, welcome to leftism.
Why would i want to join the side that thinks dumping millions and millions and millions of people into a country's already struggling is somehow going to magically fix everything. im not deluded and i stopped believing in the tooth fari a long time ago. maybe leftists should wake up sometime.
They don't "hire more immigrants." They hire anyone who is willing to work for them, like any business.
except when thats not what happens. do you even work in the real world? because most people see this happening all the time. you seem to live in a bubble outside of the effects of immigration so of course you like it. you dont see it. Immigrants hire other immigrants of their flavor. Indians hire other indians, Vietnamese hire other veitnamese... etc etc etc
They're not going to deny someone for being white, you're not oppressed.
Diversity quotas, minority programs, and lobby groups for everyone but whites... yup, nothing wrong with that at all...
No money is the problem with out public education. Many of these dilapidated schools are severely underfunded and severely lacking in resources. You don't just abandon them, but fix them.
Except they dont " just fix them" it turns into a crony project where certain crony corrput people pocket tons of money, the build goes over budget (who cares it isnt their money right) and then when all is said and done, the building is only meant to last 50 years and be torn down again. this isnt working, and this isnt going to fix the education problem. we have been throwing money at the education " problem " since the late 80s and it hasnt helped. clearly the people in charge dont want to fix it.
His covid response was completely botched, which is why we have 260k+ dead now because of him. And why covid is the third leading cause of the death in the US.
Laughable false. peddle your rona shit somewhere where theyll belief it. He was trying to shut down travel and he was called xenophobic, then pelosi said go hang out at chinese new year, and cuomo put sick patients into nursing homes. but * orange man bad* get really tiring
I don't know which part of the country you're from but "insular" is literally not what happens. Maybe your mental state isn't in tact and that's what you see but immigrants tend to interact with the native population. They have so they can survive and understand how the country works.
You clearly have never experienced the very real things im describing. you ive a privileged life apparently. Much more privileged than mine. They live around those like them, speak their own language, and never assimilate cultures.
And yes you can have multiple cultures like we have right now. If you want to go back to the stale monoculture of...whiteness?? then that's on you. most people would prefer a multicultural society.
we DID have multicultural when it was just white people. are you racist? you seem pretty anti white... We have italian, dutch, german, english, irish, french, and even when you tried to cram those cultures together they almost didnt work out. now you want to magnify this problem to the whole world in one country and think its gonna work out.
Also i love your source. FAIR is a literal white supremacist org where the founder has said that he wants America to maintain a majority white country where non whites shouldn't be allowed in the country.
Oh so because you disagree with him nothing he said is true or based on actual statistics. lol ok, and i guess not wanting to become a minority in your own country is mean and wacist. Anyone with any sort of positive attention to whites is racist"
Also lol at "many people voted for Trump too!"
Yeah he beat his 2016 total, he beat obamas 08 totals
He lost by 7 million to a guy who sat in his basement and ate ice cream all day. Most biden voters said they didn't even like but hated Trump.
weird how that happens and you think nothing fish is goin on.
Trump's approvals never hit even 48%, most people think the guy is bad aside from complete bootlickers and sycophants like yourself. You're in a cult
Im in a cult? because i stopped watching mainstream news because im tired of being lied to ? and im a sycophant? you sound like you just read that off of a CNN ticker... you talk like you are in the borg but you pretend you are free and independent and everyone else just needs to agree with me and everything will work out.. its kinda scary TBH
Last comment, i forgot to mention this in my original reply, but i literally said they pay SS taxes and don't get any money back, so no they don't "steal" SS numbers.
You are factually wrong because they DO steal SS numbers they DO collect benefits illegally. just because you ignore it doesnt mean it disappears. you clearly have no idea what you are talking about....
seriously... how old are you? are you even old enough to smoke yet?
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@AmineSamus
"So wanting my people to exist is me having an issue with others"
When "my people" is white people who aren't going away and are still going to be fine, yeah. You're a racist but you're dancing around it to advertise that you're not. And it's incredibly sad. Just be honest about who you are instead of pretending to care about the economy.
How was anything i said racist? i care more about people than the economy,. thats why im against massive immigration. but go ahead and just claim im something im not to ignore talking about what i said.
"And I'm telling you you are misinformed"
Wow damn, Economists owned
Yeah crazy, almost like people who would financially benefit from such policies would be for it. crazy i know
I've looked up the negatives, none of them are bad enough to not warrant people coming in.
then either you havent looked much at all, or you you have some sort of permanent naïve defect where you cant possibly imagine something you think is a good idea could possibly be a bad idea.
The increase in wages and GDP, the increase in jobs, the enrichment of culture to make the nation more interesting, the variety of different opinions and thoughts of different groups of people, far outweighs any small negatives.
None of that is accurate. Wages will continue to decrease. i dont know how you seem to think that flooding the supply of labor is ever going to increase wages. I dont care about the GDP, this is a nation not a shopping plaza. enriching a culture bu just creating more competing cultures? how is this a good thing? " small negative" now i know you didnt research anything
You don't know what "supply and demand" is. You have no idea how any of this works. No where would it be "infinite supplies" and no where did i say that they would be building forever. It's a gradual increase in the number of people coming here and you would build houses accordingly and by demand, or even institute public housing so immigrants can stay there.
millions and millions and millions isnt a gradual increase. nothing about immigration in the last 50 years has been " gradual" stop acting like you know what you are talking about when you clearly dont.
I never said it was all Trump's fault, i said that the 'problems' of increased cost of living and increased housing, low wages, continue to happened under Trump and has made it worse. "TDS" is what you people say when the guy you simp for is being criticized.
Trump had nothing do do with the last 409 years of government. how these problems are worse because of him is laughable. simp? again, dont even like trump, yet here i am trying to explain this to you, but you arent getting it.
"No the country wouldn;'t be the same'
It would still be the United States, my guy, we would just have more brown and black people in it. You can leave if you they're too scary for you.
let me give you an example and see if you can comprehend what im trying to state here. Japan has a population of 125 million. If you add 125 million chinese, is it still japan? its only 50% Japanese now, what if we add another 125 million non Japanese? you think japanese culture will stay? or is it going to be pushed out but the now more numerous chinese?
Yeah you hate brown people lol. You've made the evident. The other things are just excuses to justify blatant racism.
Yeah thats totally it,... good lord you have such a small IQ if this is what you are getting from me.
I understand social cohesion just fine. You seem to think it's just when white people gather with no other races, which is not what it is.
No, it has nothing to do with white people outside of the context that its white being put into this position by non whites. social cohesion works pretty well in china and japan. somehow it works with them not being white. kinda weird huh? almost like you dont understand what im trying to explain to you
"No no it's not"
It literally is and you just proved it to me with your reason. You want to waste our tax money on a useless border wall and to kick people out by force, but dont' want to spend tax money on things that actually help both the native population and the immigrant population.
It isnt, and you are being disingenuous. are you even listening to yourself? are you one of those "borders are just lines" people? do you shut your door to your house? do you have a fence? are you a racists because you want to keep people out? just following your logic here
I know what rent-free means. It's not an 'internet term' lmaooo. My point was that he's the president so of course people are going to talk about him a lot.
" talk about him alot" isnt the same as " bringing in unrelated nonsense because drumpf" isnt talking about him, its him living rent free inside your head so you are compelled to bring him up
We don't "have to be the world police" and other countries also do all of those things you mentioned.
then you dont understand what we do across the globe and dont understand the systems in place that we are paying for and facilitating
They don't spend nearly as much as we do
yeah crazy that, its almost like they dont have to because we did. crazy
"If you want to argue that we're the world's superpower, then sure, but cutting massive overseas expenditures and military bases around the world, as well as cutting our spending on military by half would still maintain that status.
"
except its a tiny faction of money you think it is. the entire military budget is 16% of the total budget. we spend a vast majority of the budget on medicare, welfare, education etc...
Who is "they"? So because the rich will use their lobbyists fight, we shouldn't do anything? We've had higher taxes on the rich in the 50's where the rich paid 90% of their taxes (on paper, in effect it was lower, but still much higher than what they pay now).
And you seem to think they paid all that. just like you would think they would pay if you increase the taxes " on the rich" when in reality it will be pushed off to the rest of us, just like it always does.
I said top 0.2% of Americans are only effected by the estate tax.
And im saying thats false, as that would exclude anyone affected by state level estate taxes, not just federal.
As in extremely rich people. It doesn't effect someone like you or me (unless you're in the top 0.2%), so I have no idea why you're defending these people. Trump got rid of this tax to help his rich bodies at the expense of the working poor. Do you know what an estate is?
Do YOU know what an estate is? do you understand the differences between state and federal estate taxes? do you comprehend the concept of inflation meaning the arbitrary dollar amount limits will be meaningless in the coming years as we continue to debt spend into oblivion
The country isn't struggling because of immigrants; it's struggling because of the rich hoarding all the wealth and buying our politicians so they get taxed less. The rich have just duped people like you into blaming immigrants for the problems rich people have caused.
" rich people" are the ones who benefit from this level of immigration how have you not figures that out yet? why else would the constantly push more immigration. just like slavery only benefit the top percentiles of the population, mass immigration does the same.
I live in one of the most diverse places in the country. Immigrants here create business and hire anyone who's willing to get hired. White people work for Indian business owners, or work for black business owners and vice versa. Again, I'm not sure what reality you live in.
Im living in the reality that if i try to get into tech, i compete with 95% indians. If i try to get into landscaping or construction, its 90% immigrants. i dunno, maybe because i work for a living, and live with people who work for a living that i can see this. i dont know where you live but everything i said is 100% the reality of the live im living
Diversity quotas aren't a thing.
they literally are. why are you denying objective documented reality? you are clearly out of your depth here.....
Stop pretending white people aren't oppressed when they couldn't have it better right now
Yeah cant have it better than competing with the entire world for tiny fractions of space in a country built by my ancestors.
We haven't "been throwing money" at all, we've been taking away money from schools constantly.
except the parts where education spending have been higher and higher and higher since the 50s, but again, dont let facts get in your way of your " opinions" or anything
"Crony corrupt people" pocketing money can be solved with additional laws within spending bills to punish people who do, there can be oversight.
Ah and who is gonna be in charge of that oversight? the same groups of people? great idea, im sure that totally worked every time we tried that before...
This isn't an excuse. The "school choice and vouchers" approach doesn't work and has never worked.
So forcing everyone to go to public schools without offering help for other, better schools isnt the problem, the problem is to drag everyone down to the same level?
Much of the reason why he was voted against was because of his botched covid response
Botched covid so sick of hearing this gaslighting.
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@AmineSamus
pt.2
Privileged? I don't know you're the only here defending rich people from getting taxed so i assumed you were in that income bracket.
You are the one doing the bidding of the rich by supporting massive immigration and global nonsense... yet you blame me for not wanting to give the government more authority to steal from people? ok...
Again no, immigrants have accustomed and integrated into the country and there hasn't been some erasure of culture or whatever
You are obviously not paying attention. sorry cant help you there. im watching it happen while you deny it.
Those cultures aren't "white" culture, they're cultures of different nationalities and are still very much intact in the country even with the many non white immigrants we have. It has nothing to do with their whiteness as you can have Italians who aren't white. Do you just stay indoors all day?
You cant say " those arent white" culture because you would be wrong. And again, those cultures are slowly being killed the same way the US is. look at immigration across the world. its the same story.
white people do it = colonization = bad evil sinful white man
when everyone else does it = immigration = free movement of people= good
It's not that I 'disagree with something he said.' It's that he has a clear agenda and is driven by bias. If his goal is to get rid of immigrants, of course he'll publish something to affirm that view. It's not a good or objective source.
" data is not objective"
ok you dislike the messenger, so you toss the message. got it. no intellectual bias there
Oh wow and who beat Trump? Biden did by getting 7 million more votes. You're coping
coping
Lol no, just watched magical ballots in a " totally free anf fair election" with zero voter/election fraud ever.
"fish going on"
Not a single case of fraud has been proven and the courts have laughed Trump and his 'lawyers' out for every one of their cases.
everything you said is false, but ok. deny video evidence, audio testimony, and written testimony given by tons and tons of poll workers and election volunteers. yup, just a whole lot of people with signed affidavits who swore against perjury ... but nothing to see here.
You will have to provide numbers as to how many steal SSN's but from what I know it's barely anything.
well yeah, you know barely anything about anything we are talking about, so no surprise there.
The way illegal immigrants pay taxes is through the ITIN, which is something the IRS created for immigrants so they can pay their taxes without the need of SSNs. So not only are they contributing to the country with taxes, they aren't receiving the benefits. They're giving to the country far more than they're taking (0).
You are blatantly wrong. they DO receive benefits, i posted it and you ignored it because you think the source is racist. You clearly have done zero actual research into this
Asking me how old I am because you can't argue my points is sad.
Its not sad, its seriously trying to figure out how someone can be this misinformed while being this arrogant
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