Comments by "redfish337" (@redfish337) on "VICE News"
channel.
-
6
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
2
-
@AlexSmith-ky4eg So, when are you supposed to retire from music you like? I'd still go to a show with Kaori Iida (38). But she quit 14 years ago. So then next up would be Takahashi Ai (33). She quit 8 years ago.
Well, to be frank, I mostly moved on past Morning Musume, but many have not- I still like a lot of their older stuff though.
Next up, Shinoda Mariko (33)... but that didn't last long. Quickly moved on to Kojima Haruna (31) before settling on Katayama Haruka (29). AKB has lots of members- it took a little while. She quit 5 years ago, so then on to Nakamura Mariko (26 next week). She quit 2 years ago. And as far as AKB is concerned, it's currently Iwatate Saho (25).
But I eventually fell out of the mainstream, so actually went on to Negishi Ai (27), and with her quitting last year it's now on to Shimizu Riko (22).
Did I lose loyalty? No. That's called oshihen and is frowned upon. THEY QUIT. And then as a fan of the SCENE, you move on to the next.
It's no amazing thing. When Kobe Bryant quit, did his fans just stop watching the NBA? Lakers sucked long enough that many people even jumped off the bandwagon. Some people were indeed JUST Kobe fans, but most people LIKE a sport, a team AND a player. I've occasionally rooted for different teams but I still like the sport. Everyone who played when I first started watching the NBA is RETIRED. But I'm still a fan of the sport, of some teams more than others, some current players, AND some retired players.
2
-
2
-
It's a little bit of a pain in the ass to figure out ages in 2015...
There's probably a way to figure out the exact date, but I'll just say winter/early spring 2015.
Here are the birthdates of people active at that point:
1998年3月15日
16-17 depending on exact filming date
1997年6月26日
17
1997年1月28日
17-18
1996年6月15日
18
1995年7月20日
19
1993年10月16日
21
1993年3月25日
21-22
1992年11月5日
22
Their company has this as their current audition policy... which is typical, but I'll just cut and paste.
未成年者は保護者の方の承認が必要です。
Minors require consent of a guardian to audition.
Girl he talked to was the 6/15 one, 18 years old at the time.
The 6/26 one who was 17 is still in the group, and is now 24. All the other current members are new since this video was filmed, and are 23, 23, 20, 19, 18.
This is all publicly available because... it's a serious well known group as far as underground idol groups go, selling albums nationally and with a fairly well maintained wikipedia page. The 16-17 girl eventually got hired to a high profile position in a very high profile group and now has 189K followers on twitter.
It's just a girl group.
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
If you've ever been to Japan it's clearly visible.
Though it's a little easier to ignore.
As a tangential example, the convenience stores have signs for say... タバコ /酒 . Even though I can READ, I don't easily latch on to the fact that the convenience stores are heavily advertising their cigarettes and alcohol, not the (relatively, for a convenience store) yummy take-out lunches and snack options that most foreigners think about when considering convenience stores in Japan.
And that's a tame example of course. The red light districts are full of naughty signs. And some not so naughty euphemistic signs like the "free information centers" which are all over.
But all that said, it also fails by conflating that idol group with the rest of this stuff. The JK stuff is riding that gray area line... probably illegal in many cases, but trying not to be so much as to draw attention. Lots of more or less runaways and "living at home but relationally "runaway" kids involved there such as that girl with the mother with mental issues.
They you've got gray area but probably legal businesses.
And THEN you have these sorts of idol groups. It's on the up and up. Minors need parental consent. There's red tape involved. The group promotes nationally to some extent so they draw attention to themselves. So everything has to be above board. Of course there's always opportunity for abuse, but it's pretty much slanderous to conflate them.
So sure, there's a dark side. But these hit job style pieces where they come in with their foreign preconceptions means they often paint too wide of a brush. Sure, there may be some common cause in why they exist, but there's a difference between a maid saying a magic spell over your spaghetti and underage runaways doing sexual favors for money. And there's a difference in the clientele as well.
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@notgiven3971 I didn't actually downvote this video. I downvoted the companion video though. (it has roughly 900 likes and 300 dislikes).
My opinion about this documentary is somewhat tinted by my opinion of the companion video.
In the end, they decided that it really didn't fit the narrative they were trying to tell.
So they dumped most of it into that side video, leaving only 2 minutes or so here.
Oh, but they still used them as the thumbnail.
I said elsewhere here, but I'll repeat my main point:
"They get 2 centimeters deep into anything actually illegal.
They break multiple laws getting material on legal stuff.
And then I guess lacking something exciting enough for their video, try to rope in some innocent idol group as part of this whole thing."
And maybe in a way to help you understand... have you never actually been bothered about liking anime? Is it so mainstream enough now you were never harassed about it? Well, the mainstream media likes to rope all this " weird Japan" stuff together- anime, manga, maid cafes, idols, etc... as well as the adult/mature segments of them. You as an anime fan, might have some understanding that "Spirited Away" "Doraemon" and "Fist of the North Star" are all anime and so maybe a fan should be more specific in what they actually like. There's ecchi stuff but that's part of anime, not the whole thing. So when they send reporters over who try to put on a normie persona and seem to know nothing about this topic, they paint with a big brush out of their ignorance. It's kind of like them assuming anyone who likes anime is liking it because of the hentai.
And you should rightly say that's a bullshit take. If they're that utterly clueless going in then they need to spend more time researching the topic before seriously trying to make a documentary on it.
1
-
@kimsland999 Because Western countries, including where I'm from, don't mean "age in which they can provide consent" when they say age of consent.
In my country there are literally MILLIONS of kids having sex with each other. Millions upon millions. I mean in the 13-18 range. Is she giving consent? Well, if the age of consent is 18, then, no, she is not because she cannot- she's not at the age in which she can provide consent. So why aren't all these being prosecuted as assaults? Because "age of consent" doesn't actually mean what it says, it's pretty much just the age in which you can't have sex if one of them are too far above or below the line.
In Japan, age of consent is actually age of consent. It's the age in which their yes means yes. Before that age, their yes means nothing because they don't have the ability to consent. After that age, their yes then means yes. Nevertheless, even if their yes means yes, it's still ILLEGAL.
The age of criminal culpability in Japan has dropped from 16 to 14, and while it doesn't quite align even though logically speaking it should, the point is around that age is when they think people are responsible for their actions. An 11 year old shanked a 12 year old, and this made them consider if they wanted to lower it. But since the aoc law in Japan is more about mental capability than legality of an action, raising it would be odds with attempts to lower the criminal culpability law since it would suggest people aren't really capable of making decisions until an older age.
The 13 is an old "federal" law- back when the life expectancy was something like half of what it is now. The 16/18 are "state" laws, and as far as I know, every "state" has them. "State" laws have lower penalties but it's still jail time.
I'm quite all right with celibacy laws for under 18s... frankly, I'm okay with 19 or 20- that ensures they're out of high school. I'm a prude and would prefer all those millions of 13-18 having sex in my country... did not.
But my issues is Japan's "age of consent" actually means what it says, and people give them a hard time about it when their county uses a virtue signal number like 18 or whatever but then doesn't actually enforce on what should then be assaults.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
For the parts that are fully legal and legit, they NEED parental permission if under 18/20. It's just a regular job of sorts like acting or whatever. Oh, and usually they fire anyone who so much as meets up with a fan in public to show that they will not abide even the appearance of side payments for favors from fans.
Most who would actually be doing cafes and such would be perhaps moving to the big city after high school. Some may be in college doing it as a part time job. Others may be doing it full time while trying to move up in the entertainment industry or as one of multiple part time jobs as they try to gain experience in a field they actually want to join. If they're over 18 they probably don't have explicit permission for anything in particular, but have occasional conversations with parents, as would be expected of a college student. Parent assumes they're in school or working or whatever and probably hopes they'll come back for help if they come onto hard times rather than sell themselves. But they're on their own already.
Then you've got the younger ones who probably can't actually easily get any actual legitimate work without permission. They only have to be in school through junior high, but basically everyone does high school... the number of dropouts is very small. The number of single parents is also fairly small. So probably most of these are alienated, with absentee parents too busy working or drinking to notice or care, rather than true runaways.
Additionally, I want to add that this thing with the underage is something akin to a sugar daddy. So some young girls in relatively normal families may still just do it secretly because it pays off very well compared to the regular job opportunities that a high school kid has- ie, minimum wage in menial job or bothersome service industry.
It's not likely to be a direct payment of money for sexual favors.
It's more like they're in a pseudo relationship and the steady stream of expensive gifts or payment of rent or tuition or whatever is maintained by properly giving or withholding affection.
Which... frankly isn't all that different from what many would consider regular dating. Since we've cheapened regular dating quite a bit, it makes it a bit harder to enforce against sugar daddying/enjo kousai.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@Future_Pheonix Well, first we'll start with your kids and teens and middle aged men.
I'm not going to do the math and figure out who was in that group when, but that group has a lot of turnover so probably the ones currently in the group aren't the ones in this video five years later. So what age are the current members? 17, 17, 20, 20., 21, 22, 22.
It's a bunch of college age kids, maybe a couple high school seniors. You do the math on other groups and you'll generally find similar for active members.
There are younger idols though, especially in the major companies that have the staff to bother with the pile of red tape of employing under-16s. A lot of smaller idol companies don't even want to employ under-18s because it still has extra paperwork involved.
And looking at this video- there were a couple older guys but most looked 20s-30s.
What about the even younger guys? Well, groups like this perform 200+ times year. That's maybe 5000 USD just to see the shows. So the unmarried 20-30 somethings have disposable income and spare time and can go to most of the shows. Younger people can only afford to go to major shows, and older people usuaaaally can't spare that much time.
And the rules are super strict and generally include "making her feel uncomfortable" as a catch all offense. No, idols aren't pimped out. Could it happen? Perhaps, but the current framework dissuades it. Of much greater concern is pressure from managers, but that's not new or unique or anything. And I'd argue it's weak in the current system. But you've heard rumors or something? That's the problem with this video.
The "no dating" rules help clarify things. NGT48 had lax rules and apparently let guys into their dorm. And eventually a girl was assaulted to some extent. Management tried to cover it up, but she wouldn't back down and it became a big scandal. I'm not quite sure how I feel about the rule- but as far as management is concerned, if they can get away having it, they do because it simplifies things. They don't want people to see the idols as less than pure? Ehh.. it's more like they want everyone to be clear they have exactly 0% chance so stay in line or get perma-banned. And perma-ban, they do. If you look at who actually gets arrested for stalking/assault or whatever it's mostly 22-26 or so- people close enough in age to them that they might not have quite figured out that 0% applies to them too. Yes, the older ones may look creepier, but it's the YOUNGER FANS who are a similar age to the idols who are the troublemakers that get watched carefully by the staff and regulars.
Yes, we know about Johnny, and we're not talking about him. And I'll pretty much say the same about Perfect Blue. Perfect Blue is from 1991- the anime from 1997. The whole female idol system has basically crashed twice since then... it's like talking Atari when considering video game issues. The boy group system never crashed and Johnny kept it running like it was still the '60s and had so much power no one dared cross him. He might have done stuff. We'll never know because the media was too chicken to push the issue. The current period of girl groups has a huge number of groups and companies. If someone doesn't like things, they can change companies- and many do. Or go solo. There are groups that allow dating. There's at least one group where a member was married but didn't announce it. And a very major group's center member got married last year- and is still in the group. There are groups where they have creative control. There are groups where the members choose the members. They can find one with rules they like.
Working conditions depend on the company. Sign to a company with rules you like. Does it pay well? Not usually. But who are idols? This sort, mostly college girls doing it as a part time job. It's a lot of work but it pays okay for a part time job. May get to tour the country or abroad. Maybe get to meet some famous people. It's not usually K-pop working conditions you know. Again, a lot of them are in school. Some have day jobs.
As for surgeries, again, K-pop, sure, J-idol, not so much. Sure, some have it but lots of them have bad noses, and ears that could be pinned. And bad teeth. Relatively easy peasy stuff to have surgery on, or at least get orthodontics... and yet they don't. Many of them have shown pictures of themselves without makeup. That's... doing much of the work. And some photo editing on SMS.
I don't want to make it sound like it's all rainbows and butterflies, but it's an industry on the up-and-up full of girls who want to sing and perform, that has some abuses, that most staff and fans are on the look out for. It's not like the JK walking which is on the dark side by nature. Most people are just there with their buddies for a fun time.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@lunaticcultist9741 Japan is notorious for suicides. But the reality in recent years is they are simply below average. So at this point it's a stereotype.
The numbers I gave are WHO numbers. They try to normalize. You can argue if they are, in light of the pandemic, credible, but the same could be said for CDC.
The US is about 1 in 5 Catholic, and many still believe it is an unforgivable sin. So you've got a large segment of the populace who will do what they can to get it officially classified as something different. In Japan, on the other hand, it's convenient to label things suicides without doing autopsies because a suicide is a closed case.
Again, the WHO estimates try to standardize everything, and with Japan's rate going down in the last few years with an easing work environment, and the US's trending up, US remains only oh so slightly ahead for now.
Of course, with the pandemic aggravating everything, it's hard to say what the real time numbers are.
1
-
1
-
@weeweefeet4030 If you're curious, in Japan it's ostensibly actually the age at which they can consent. Between 13 and 16-18 (depending on jurisdiction... but again, 18 there in Tokyo), they consent to a crime.
There was talk about increasing it, but this is more a philosophical question as to when someone is responsible for their own actions, and they basically decided on ~13-14 or so in order to not weaken cases against teenage murderers.
This 13-18 range is a crime with afaik, required, jail time for corrupting minors.
Under 13, they are considered unable to consent, which means that their yes is meaningless, and so even if apparently consenting, they cannot consent and so it is as if they were forced, and therefore carries much higher penalties.
Sure, that is far worse than the ~1 year of prison you get for the consenting 13-17 year old you are being jailed for corrupting, but running around saying aoc is 13 is underselling the 1 year of prison followed by swift deportation and a probable permanent ban from the country you'd get if they decide they want to prosecute.
1
-
@weeweefeet4030 Nothing about foreigners- except that as foreigner I think it's more likely that someone will not like you and therefore try to get prosecution initiated so you're at higher risk of enforcement- and you have the additional penalty of likely being booted from the country and never allowed back. The law applies to everyone. Enforcement is another matter though. But that's nothing new for anywhere.
"Japan statutory () law is violated when an individual has consensual sexual contact with a person under age 13. At 13, Japan's base age of consent is the lowest of any developed country. However, many prefectures also have local "corruption of minors" or "obscenity statutes" ...which raise the de-facto age of consent to 16-18, unless they are in a "sincere romantic relationship", usually determined by parental consent. For example, the effective age of consent in Tokyo by local statute is 18. The age of marriage is 16 for girls and 18 for boys with parental permission, and 20 otherwise (according to) ", the Child Welfare Act of Japan."
Also, apparently they very recently they did go ahead and push it up to 16 nationally. I should note that a lot of this stuff is done to try to mirror the west though in order to avoid issues like this, as their traditional age of adulthood is 20, and some things have been pushed DOWN to 18, to align with the west. I think 20 is a nice age for a lot of stuff since it's clear of high school. 18 for AV means high schoolers and I think that's pretty gross.
Anyway, I live in a place, California, where the age of consent is ostensibly 18. In terms of penalties and prosecution, it is de facto quite similar to Japan. The main difference has been semantics. This is my main issue with people parroting the "Japan's aoc is 13" narrative which makes it sound like Japan is particularly degenerate. I'm a relative prude pushing for abstinence to 18+ and no AV to 20+, so sure I think Japan is degenerate- most stuff goes unprosecuted... but they're no more degenerate than California is. So why is one 13 and the other 18? The California number of 18 is just a virtue signal. And ultimately the Japanese number of 16 is a virtue signal to attempt to get Westerners to not think it's 13 anymore. As it's already been 16 since normal people don't want to go to jail for a year... 16 just looks better when people glance at numbers on a chart.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1