Comments by "Sandy Tatham" (@sandytatham3592) on "Yishai Fleisher"
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What exactly is this right of the Arabs of the disputed territories of Palestine to have their own state? Where is there a precedent in the world for this? Why don't the Kurds, Yazadis, Assyrians, Persians, Copts, Nubians, Amazigh, etc. also have their own sovereign state? These people were all subjugated by the Arab imperialists who invaded the Levant and North Africa in the 7-8th centuries. What's so special about the Arabs who happened to live in Palestine in 1948 when Israel was declared independent? Why are they the ONLY displaced group in the world who still gets huge funding and publicity? What is this so-called right to have their own state, the 23th Arab state, and probably a failed one at that? They would have better individual rights if Israel extended sovereignty over all of Israel, then gave the Arabs "residence status" with a pathway to full citizenship when they pledge allegiance to the Jewish state of Israel and choose to live in peaceful coexistence.
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@sunnysoto : Israel was founded after the Allies DEFEATED the Ottoman Turks and Arabs of Palestine in 1918. Like Yishai says, when your side starts an aggressive war and then LOSES that war, you donโt get to choose who takes control. The Zionist Jews fought with the British. They were acknowledged in 1922 by the League of Nations as #indigenous to the land. Wherever Jews are in the world, even if taken as slaves to Europe centuries ago or persecuted and fled to other countries to survive, they are still indigenous to THEIR land. Other peoples are fine to live there in peace so long as they accept they are living in, or next to, the Jewish state of Israel. Just like Egypt is the Islamic Republic of Egypt. Wars have consequences! The Arabs of the Hejaz also fought with the British and they were given control in 99% of the carved-up Ottoman Empire land, todayโs Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Jordan. Israel is less than 1% and one-fifth of Israeli citizens are Arabs and other minorities whose families accepted life in the Jewish state in 1948. They made a good choiceโฆ๐๐ฎ๐ฑ๐
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โย @brianbeagย : I agree that the demographics are very delicately balanced. A few thoughts:
- Extending sovereignty over Judea and Samaria and offering the Arabs "permanent residence" status in Israel would send a strong message that there will NOT be an independent Palestinian state, nor would the so-called 'right of return' hold any credibility, hence many Arabs would look for assistance to be resettled elsewhere. A large proportion of devout Muslims could never agree to coexisting in the Jewish state of Israel.
- The fertility rate of Arabs is probably not higher than the Jewish people today. Times of Israel said in January 2024: "Between 2018 and 2022, the average fertility rate for Jews dropped from 3.17 to 3.03 children per woman. Among Muslim and Christian women, the decline was greater โ from 3.20 to 2.91 among Muslims, and from 2.06 to 1.68 among Christians."
- Israel would control the pathway to full citizenship. An increasing number of Druze in the Golan Heights and Arabs in East Jerusalem do want to pursue this, but mechanisms can be in place to ensure that only those who pledge allegiance to the Jewish state would be accepted, and it can take years to be processed.
- I've read that the permanent population of Arabs in the 'West Bank' is probably over-estimated, with the purpose of strengthening the political case for 'Palestine' and to boost numbers to receive more foreign aid. If Arabs live outside Israel for a period of time, they should lose their "residence visa" and only be allowed to return on tourist visas. And any who have citizenship of another country would not be offered "residence" status.
- As for your comment on "new Palestinian leadership to emerge", have you watched Yishai's video entitled "SOLVED! It Could Be Over Tomorrow if this happens"? The last minute and a half are classic, relating to the Arab honour-shame culture. With the right Jewish leadership I believe this one Jewish state plan could come to fruition.
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โย @Knowledgeequalspower1ย : I am from New Zealand and Australia, and in both of my countries the indigenous peoples have been given recognition, autonomy, support, and sometimes full control of their ancestral land. That doesn't always work out well but the invasion by Britain happened far too long ago to reverse it now, and I doubt that the Aboriginals or Maoris would even want that to happen. The US has the same situation. I believe the Native American Indians have been given recognition, autonomy, support and sometimes full autonomy in their ancestral lands. In both NZ and the US, the people we call "indigenous" today only came relatively recently from other lands, but the Aboriginal peoples had been in what we today call Australia for around 50,000 years so they absolutely must be taken care of.
In the case of Israel, there was a relatively recent "window of opportunity" for the indigenous Jewish peoples to return to their ancestral land. After the Jews fought with Britain in Palestine, and the Allies DEFEATED the Ottoman Empire in 1918, the Ottoman land was ceded to the British, French, etc. They didn't have to give up that land to anyone, but they did. The Hejazi Arabs also fought with British Lawrence of Arabia and they were given self-rule in 99% of the Ottoman land. Today those countries are Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Jordan. Much of it is land rich in oil. Israel is less than 1% of the carved-up Ottoman land. It has almost no resources, and one-fifth of Israeli citizens are Arabs who accepted life in the Jewish state of Israel. It's my guess that most of those Arabs who stayed with Israel had been there for at least a century, so they were not leaving. Those Arabs who did flee when the Arab countries attacked Israel in 1948 ended up being #displaced because Israel unexpectedly won that war. A large number of those fleeing Arabs only arrived AFTER 1920 when the British and Jews created 'economic opportunities' for them. By now they should ALL have been absorbed into those neighbouring Arab countries which caused the catastrophe ('nakba'). But because the Arab countries have oil, and because #antisemitism is a very real thing, the international community has kept the displaced Arab 'Palestinians' as pawns to use against Israel.
When the Ottoman land was carved-up in 1920, representatives of the Kurds and Assyrians also lobbied for control of their ancestral land, but sadly it was all given to the Hejazi Arabs. Those same Arabs who had invaded and conquered the Levant in the 7th century. It is my hope that these conquests can be reversed in time, and that we will see emerging countries which the Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis, Berbers, Balochis, Persians, Copts, etc. call their own, just like the Jewish state of Israel today.
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All "permanent residents" of other Western countries have to remain in occupation for a number of qualifying years, without committing any violence or crimes, before they can apply for full citizenship with national voting rights. They would also need to pledge allegiance to the Jewish state of Israel. This is already the status for East Jerusalem Arabs and the Druze who live in the Golan Heights. Most of the Arab Muslims of Judea and Samaria may choose to remain as "permanent residents" of Israel. It would give them equal civil rights, security, education, health, employment opportunities, a travel document, and relative autonomy in their own areas. The Arabs do not have a higher birth rate than Israeli citizens, plus there may be growing numbers of Jewish people who choose to emigrate to Israel once there is more security, so there may not be a demographic issue.
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ย @the1littlebeatleย : If they have Israeli citizenship then they do have full national voting rights today. If "residence status" is offered to the Arabs in the Palestinian Territories, like the Arabs of East Jerusalem currently have, they would have equal civil rights, but not national voting rights. Civic rights includes voting in civic elections (such as the city of Jerusalem) so they can have autonomous Arab cities or fair representation in those cities. They also have education, health, security, employment opportunities, etc. To get full citizenship with national voting rights they would have to pledge allegiance to the Jewish state of Israel which for many Muslims would be treasonous, though many do so without being open about it. Many Muslims also believe that voting in any elections is against Islam so they are under-represented in both civic and national elections in Israel. Millions and millions of people live in other countries today on "residence visas" and they benefit from that, or they move on. In the case of the Arabs of the Palestinian Territories who do not want "residence status" in Israel if it was offered, they could be financially assisted to apply for resettlement elsewhere then they could probably visit Israel as tourists if they have a good security record.
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