Comments by "神州 Shenzhou" (@Shenzhou.) on "What if China went to war with India? Who'd win?" video.
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During Korean war, PLA soldiers were poorly trained, had crappy equipment and little air support, naval support. Our only ally was North Korea for ally (Soviet Union provided equipment only) and we fought against the better equipped, well trained, combined armies of South Korea, USA, UK, Canada, Turkey, Australia, Philippines, New Zealand, Thailand, Greece, France, Colombia, Netherlands, Luxembourg, etc. with Japan in the background manufacturing war equipment for the Allies
And yet, the combined might of 16 Allied nations did not win the Korean War? Even with all their superior training and equipment and combat experience? Against poorly trained, poorly equipped Chinese soldiers, with only North Korea soldiers as our allies?
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-China has world's longest range ICBM, the DF-41, with operational range of 13,000 km to 15,000 km, enabling China to bypass barriers like the seas and the Himalayas, by literally flying over them.
-China has demonstrated anti-satellite capabilities in 2007, when a 750 kg satellite in orbit at altitude of 865 km was taken out by a ground launched missile. If PLA takes out Indian Army satellites, their ground troops will be at severe disadvantage without satellite support.
-During wartime, China can always manufacture more tanks, aircraft, ammunition and equipment to replace losses. Indian on the other hand, has to rely on purchasing foreign military hardware from USA and Russia, and these countries can suddenly increase the prices, because they know India has no choice but to buy them.
-Pakistan's status has never impeded them from being thorn in India's side.
-Tibetans are enjoying modern amenities built by China, like roads, houses, schools, universities, hospitals, power stations, running water, gas, electricity, and technology like cars, smartphones, computers, Internet, WiFi, mobile phone coverage, under China. As ethnic minority in China, Tibetans get special exemption from taxes, free education up to university, and special healthcare benefits and bursaries. Why would they want to lose all this?
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+Soul Chicken Nobody cares about China's interests except Chinese. Nobody wants to see China succeed, except Chinese. Nobody can defend China, except Chinese. Modern China was built by sweat, blood, tears and sacrifice of the Chinese people to through wars, invasion, famine, poverty, rebellions and revolutions. There were many failures and mistakes along the way, but Chinese people turned China from dirt poor, war torn and starving country, into world's 2nd largest economy, protected by world's 2nd largest military spending and largest land army, the PLA. If you want to label Chinese people who defend China as "trolls" then aren't you implying that Indians who defend their country are trolls as well?
Under the Dalai Lama rule, Tibet was brutal theocracy, where 95% of the population were slaves and the remaining 5% elites were slave owners. Tibetan mountainous soil was poor and the serfs had to work to grow enough food to feed the population and the 5% elites. Starvation was commonplace, and criminals were punished by torture, amputation and even skinning. There is this Tibetans drum called damaru which consists of two human skulls and the drumskin is made from human skin and the drumstick from human bone.
When Tibet returned to Chinese rule, it was modernized and roads, schools, universities, hospitals were built, as well as running water, gas and electricity. Tibetans today have access to cars, mobile phones, computers and there is Internet coverage, WiFi, and mobile phone reception, even in such a remote location like Tibet. The population of Tibet has grown from about 1 million in 1951 to 3 million people today, as food can now be imported from the mainland.
What makes you think Tibetans will absolutely rise up against China then? Have you been to Tibet and asked the locals? Today, Tibet has a thriving tourist industry, because China built Qinghai railway through difficult mountainous terrain to connect the normally isolated Tibet to the rest of the world.
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China has settled boundary dispute approximately of 20,000 km with 12 countries out of the 22,000 km and is yet to settle about 2,000 km of boundary involving India and Bhutan.
-In 1961, Nepal and China signed border agreement.
-In 1962, Mongolia and China signed border agreement.
-In 1963, Afghanistan and China signed border agreement.
-In 1963, Pakistan and China signed border agreement.
-In 1991, USSR and China signed Sino-Soviet border agreement.
-In 1992, Laos and China signed border agreement.
-In 1994, Kazakhstan and China signed border agreement.
China has 21 talks with Bhutan and 19 talks with India but still fail to settle our countries borders.
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Looking from Pakistan perspective, India also supported Bangladesh independence from East Pakistan, so isn't India being hostile towards Pakistan as well, by dividing its country and creating Bangladesh? Why you allow your original country of British India, to become so divided today? Each division only weakens the former country, and create tensions between the individual states. Just imagined if British India had resisted the British and chosen to remained "unpartitioned" and all those conflicts and bloodshed between India and Pakistan didn't happened. Where would India be today if history happened differently?
But its too late now, and Pakistan is its own sovereign country, and so is Bangladesh. Why do you want to keep on opposing each other, even after 70 years? How will Asia ever become strong, if we are constantly fighting amongst ourselves? China wants to make Asia strong, by building infrastructure in less developed countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Maldives, Sri Lanka, Nepal, because we believe building infrastructure is laying the foundations for countries to develop themselves.
Look at the Western approach to terrorism. They invade Middle East country and bomb their cities, resulting in civilian casualties, and these people become angry and join the terrorists to fight against USA. For example, Al Qaeda was once trained by CIA, but eventually rebelled against USA. Even the formation of ISIL has been credited to USA's constant intervention in Middle Eastern wars. When a terrorist cell is destroyed, another one pops up in its place, so it is apparent that US approach simply does not work. So why should we follow their approach then, when its been fighting wars in Middle East for 15 years without end in sight?
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-If India blockades Chinese trade to Western countries like USA and Europe, then won't those countries not take kindly to India's blocking of their trade with China? What makes you think those countries are willing to risk damage to their economies, just for India's sake? Also, can India even manage a proper blockade?
-China is Russia's largest trade partner, not India. What does India have to offer to Russia, that would make Russia choose India over China? Russia will support any nation that opposes USA, and if USA sides with India, then Russia will side with China. After all, if China is destroyed, then who is going help Russia oppose USA?
-China has conducted numerous live-fire exercises in Tibet before, moving troops and war equipment across the Tibetan plateau. China is building roads in Tibet to help speed up transport in the Tibetan plateau during peacetime, as well as speeding up the supply lines during wartime.
-China has military assets like stealth fighters like Chengdu J-20, anti-satellite capabilities, hypersonic missiles that travel many times faster than the speed of sound and difficult to intercept, as well as the world's longest range ICBM, DF-41. The DF-41 also has Multiple Independent Reentry Vehicle (MIRV) capability of up to 10 warheads, meaning that it can target up to 10 targets independently with each launch.
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TentatheSane The Tibetans government signed an agreement (Seventeen Point Agreement) with China in 1951, affirming China's sovereignty over Tibet, so why do you claim they were annexed without their consent?
Lots of China's neighbours like S. Korea, Japan (and even Taiwan) have China as their biggest trade partner, so why would they join India in blocking trade with China, when it will harm their own economies? For example, China once restricted South Korean businesses in China (because of US THAAD deployment in S. Korea) and S. Korean economy suffered a lot. So why would they join India's blockade of China and harm their own economies? According to statistics, China received the following number of foreign tourists from the following places in 2016.
1. Taiwan (5,730,000)
2. South Korea (4,775,000)
3. Vietnam (3,167,010)
4. Japan (2,590,700)
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So why do you claim China's neighbours hate China, when those people form the bulk of China's tourism?
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Indian Air Force lost half of its MiG fighter jets in deadly crashes. which have led to the deaths of some 171 pilots, 39 civilians and 8 persons from other services, over the last 40 years.. Because of this, the MiG is often nicknamed "Flying Coffins". Here is a list of known MiG crashes of Indian Air Force (IAF)
Jul 6, 2017: A MiG fighter of IAF crashed in Jodhpur’s Balesar.
Sep 10, 2016: A MiG fighter of IAF crashed in Barmer district of Rajasthan
Jun 13, 2016: A MiG fighter of IAF crashed in Jodhpur, Rajasthan.
Aug 24, 2015: A MiG fighter of IAF crashed near a village in Budgam district.
May 8, 2015: A MiG fighter of IAF crashed in West Bengal’s Tantipara area.
Jan 31, 2015: A MiG fighter of IAF crashed west of Jamnagar city..
May 27, 2014: A MiG fighter of IAF crashed in Bijbehara area of Anantnag district in Kashmir.
Nov 8, 2013: A MiG fighter of IAF crashed near Jamnagar.
Jul 15, 2013: A MiG fighter of IAF crashed at Uttarlai airbase in Rajasthan’s Barmer district.
Even this new year in Jan 3, 2018, A MiG 29K crashed at Goa Airport.
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Aryavarta Bharat Pakistan is sovereign country as recognised by India, so China and Pakistan are conducting business bilaterally as country to country. If you are so against Pakistan, then why did Indian leaders like PM Nehru and Mahatma Gandhi let the British and Jinnah partition British India in 1947, forming two independent countries? Afterwards, India supported Bangladesh independence from East Pakistan, forming another independent country. Each separation only weakens the original country, and you can no longer control the newly created countries, which may become a future thorn in your side. That's why China fight so hard to hold on to our territories like Hong Kong and Taiwan. We don't want end up in the same situation as India and Pakistan, brother states that constantly blame each other and oppose each other even after 70 years. Why not attempt to repair the damaged relations instead of promoting conflict between your countries?
China is helping develop Pakistan economy through economic corridor project. This is a rare opportunity for both Pakistan and India to cooperate together in developing Pakistan to a stable country. Otherwise, do you want to keep on opposing each other, for another 70 years into the future?
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+JOBPEDIA Why is China not capable of doing full scale war against India? You claim China is cheating, fraud, copycat, but during wartime, China can always make more tanks, fighters, ammunition and equipment to replaces losses. But India depends on importing foreign miltary equipment from Russia and USA, and they may suddenly decide to jack up the price of their wares, because they know India has no choice but to buy them.
So why you still claim China is incapable of doing a full scale war with 7th largest country? China is world's 2nd largest economy, with 2nd largest military spending in the world, after USA.
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NeelotpalMRINAL The PLA is still the world's largest land army. Exactly what do you know about Chinese war tactics? So many factors can decide the outcome of war. The geography, the weather, supply lines, technology, morale, diplomacy, economics, etc. Ancient Chinese war strategists wrote detailed military manuals, like Sun Zi's The Art of War, since thousands of years ago, yet his teachings are still being taught in modern military academies.
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You act like India conducts itself transparently in the first place. What about Indian Army sending troops across the border to obstruct road construction efforts at Doklam? Doklam lies on the China-Bhutan border, not the India-China border, so it should be an bilateral issue between China and Bhutan, isn't it?
When did China disregard India's claim on Jammu and Kashmir? Chinese workers are only building infrastructure in Kashmir, and China is not claiming that territory as part of China. Once the construction is complete, Chinese workers will vacate the lands and leave it for whomever wants possession of those territory. So how is China disregarding Jammu and Kashmir? In China's case for example, India does business with Taiwan, but does China complain about India doing business with Taiwan?
What has South China Sea got to do with India then? India does not claim territory from South China Sea, and neither does Japan, or USA for that matter, so what has SCS issue got to do with those countries at all here? In fact, India doesn't claim Indian Ocean as part of its territory, so why can't Chinese ships and submarines patrol the Indian Ocean?
China has 5000 years of history, and is among the world's oldest 'continuous' civilizations still alive today, whereas other great civilizations like Mesopotamia, Rome and Egypt have long since faded to history. China has long history of warfare and military manuals like Sun Zi's The Art of War 孙子兵法 have been written thousands of years ago, but still being taught today in modern military academies.
Why is mechanized warfare unfeasible in mountainous region, simply because the video above says so? China has conducted several live-fire exercise and military drills in Tibet, making use of light tanks like VT5 light combat tank. In fact, it is only after the Tibet live-fire exercise, did Indian army realize that it does not have light tanks of its own for combat in mountainous terrain.
For mountainous combat scenarios, China also have access to aerial units like our very own combat UAVs, like CaiHong-5, which has been compared to the US's Reaper drone, and allows China to conduct surveillance and light combat operations along Himalayas. China also have world's longest range ICBM, DF-41, with 13,000 to 15,000 km range, allowing it to literally fly over the Himalayan mountain range. China also have anti-satellite missiles that can take out Indian military satellites in space, which will hamper its coordination on the ground and put Indian army at a disadvantage.
I haven't even said anything about Pakistan, except for the fact that China does business with them. If Indians want to continue to divide Asia, by fighting with Pakistan all the time, then how is Asia going to become strong again? By fighting amongst themselves? China is helping to stabilize Pakistan government and provide jobs for its people through economic corridor project and by developing Gwadar port. Pakistan is India's brother state, sharing the same history (Mughal rule, British rule, etc) right up the British India's partitioning in 1947, so why can't Pakistan claim Jammu and Kashmir region as part of its territory? From what I know, most of the people living in J & K are Muslims too.
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Rajan A Thevar The entire Pakistan was a part of "Bharat" but in the end, it was Indian leaders like PM Nehru and Mahatma Gandhi, that choose to give away territory to form Pakistan as its own sovereign state. It was your leaders decision too, to support Bangladesh Independence from East Pakistan, creating another sovereign country.
Nothing to do with China or me for that matter, that your great "Bharat" has now fragmented into different states and fighting amongst themselves. China today fights so hard to regain control of Hong Kong and Taiwan, because we don't want to end up what happened to the great "Bharat", which is now divided into several states.
And its your own sense of superiority complex, that if you think that Bharat goes, then so does the entire human race. If India can claim territories based on "The Great Bharat" then can't Pakistan claim territories too, since its history parallels that of India? Then why can't China claim territory based on Qing Dynasty maps and treaties then?
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+Aryavart Bharat Bangladesh was still legally part of Pakistan, and by joining in, India is taking sides in civil war against West Pakistan. Since you participated in this Pakistan internal civil war against Pakistan, then why do you think Pakistan won't be hostile against you?
People join the terrorists because they are poor, jobless, and angry at their government, or other country like USA for intervening in their wars. The US approach to dealing with terrorism is to bomb cities in Middle East, and this only generates more resentment against USA, so the people flock to join terrorists. This method clearly does not solve the problem of terrorism. Otherwise, why USA fight wars in Middle East for over 15 years without end? Why are there more terrorist groups appearing, like ISIL?
China's approach is different from USA. China is investing in Pakistan and building infrastructure, which create jobs for people so that they will have work to do and money to earn, instead of joining the extremists. The government becomes more stable as the economy develops, and becomes more interested in spending money in growing its economy, instead of investing in terrorist activity. Isn't this a much better solution, then the US approach to terrorism?
If using the same method again and again doesn't work, then why not try a new approach instead? Its crazy to repeat the same method again and again, and somehow expect a different outcome.
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Aryavarta Bharat China does not lecture what you do in Jammu and Kashmir, but does that mean Chinese workers can't build roads there? What gives you Indian soldiers the right to obstruct PLA road construction efforts in Doklam then? Doklam is located on Bhutan-China border, not Indian-China border yet Indian troops can interfere with this? India does not claim Doklam as part of its territory, so what gives you Indians the right to lecture Chinese about Doklam then?
Pakistan is its own sovereign country as recognised by India, so why can't China conduct bilateral relations with Pakistan, country to country? Like I said earlier, why you oppose your brother state Pakistan and want to see its downfall? If Pakistan collapse, then it's neighbours like India, China, Afghanistan, etc will be flooded by mass refugees, and we don't want that to happen, so China help build infrastructure in Pakistan through economic corridor project to create jobs for the people and stabilise its economy.
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King Boo The government is not perfect, but at least China is currently not at war with any country since our last major war in 1979, and is peacefully building infrastructure in less developed countries like Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Maldives, etc.
But USA is involved in Gulf War, Iraq War, Afghan War, Libyan war, etc, even in 21st century and is cutting off those countries heads (Muammar Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, etc) and installing their own US puppet governments in place. They're probably planning to do the same thing to Assad soon.
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During Dalai Lama rule over Tibet, Tibet was backward and brutal theocracy, where 95% of population were slaves and the 5% elite were slave owners, but under Chinese government, Tibet was modernized and Chinese workers built infrastructure, roads, streetlamps, houses, schools, universities, hospitals, and granted homes running water, gas and electricity. Tibetans and Uighurs today have access to modern technology, like cars, smartphones, computers, the Internet, WiFi, mobile phone coverage (even in such remote region)
And look at what Indian Army did in Kashmir. "The frequent rape of Kashmiri Muslim women by Indian state security forces routinely goes unpunished. Many women have become victims of rape and sexual assault in the conflict." And you still think: "Exactly. That's why I don't understand why Muslims hate India and support China."
But go on, label me as dishonest and ignorant, because I am Chinese and therefore "brainwashed". You apparently seen my comments before, and I put plenty of thought and logic into them and quote examples, but because I am Chinese and therefore, viewed as ignorant and dishonest by you.
Jai Hind! जय हिन्द !
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ROC claims all of mainland China (including Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, etc) as part of its territory. In addition to all of mainland China, ROC also claims territory forming part of modern day Mongolia, Myanmar, Bhutan, India, Japan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Russia and Tajikistan.
So why can't China claim Taiwan as part of our territory
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MsSuperFerry But you clearly said "Being poor in the West is earning ten times as much per day, at least in my country." so aren't you implying that being poor in the West is being rich in China and India? Those are your words after all.
The British not only ruled violently over the Indians, but during that time, they also wanted to continue drinking Chinese tea, but had nothing of interest to offer China, so they waged two bloody wars with China (sometimes, using conscripted Indian troops against China) and forced Chinese people to buy opium from them, which we didn't want, because it made us sick and was poisoning our people. Port cities like Shanghai were forced open to act as drug distribution hubs to spread the addiction throughout rest of China, and Hong Kong was made into British colony as a result.
Since when did India embraced socialism/communism/maoism (except for small groups of insurgents)?
As for China, under President Xi Jinping, the government is now following a ideology of "socialism with Chinese characteristics". Although China is embracing Western capitalism, China should follow our own political path to success instead of just blindly copying Western form of government.
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attackmaster555 How was Korean war a slight victory? Korea is still divided today isn't it? Even with the well equipped and highly trained armies of 16 nations, the Allies did not win the Korean War, despite facing off against poorly trained PLA soldiers, our crappy equipment, and with only North Korea for allies.
The PLA today is not the same as it was back then. China has world's longest range ICBM, the DF-41, with operational range of 13,000 km to 15,000 km, surpassing the US LGM-30 Minuteman with its range of 13,000 km. How do you expect the mountain range to protect India, if Chinese missiles can literally fly over beyond the Himalayas?
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Chinese workers help to modernize Tibet by building roads,railways, streetlamps, running water, gas, electricity, housing, schools, universities, hospitals, powerstations, etc. Tibetans today can enjoy modern amenities like smartphones, computers, WiFi, Internet, etc, and as Chinese ethnic minority, Tibetans enjoy special tax exemption, free education up to university, and healthcare bursaries. Chinese workers even built Qinghai railway station (world's highest elevation railway) so that the mountaineous Tibet is no longer so isolated from rest of the world.
So why you think Tibetans are on the edge of rebellion then?
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During Dalai Lama rule of Tibet. Tibet was brutal theocracy, with 95% of population being slaves, and the elite 5% being slave-owners. The mountainous Tibetan soil was infertile, and serfs toil all day in order to produce enough food to feed the population and the 5% elite. Starvation was commonplace, stealing of food is punished by mutilation of limbs, or skinning of the victims. There is this Tibetan drum called damaru that consists of two human skulls, with the drumskin being made from human skin and using human bones for the drumstick.
The Dalai Lama was worshiped as divine being and his followers sometimes fought for the right to consume his body fluids, like saliva, urine, or even feces, because he was though to the be a holy vessel for divine essence. After the PLA regained control of Tibet in 1951, Tibet's population was only 1.14 million, but it has since tripled, to about 3 million people. This is because China modernized Tibet, building roads, houses, running water, gas, electricity, and food was imported from the mainland to feed and grow its population.
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@shubhamsuryawanshi658 It's possible that Jordan may be selling off the Chinese CH-4B drone, because Jordan aims to replace the CH-4s with the more advanced Chinese made drones like perhaps, the CH-5, with a wingspan of 21 metres, a payload of 1,000 kg, able to carry 16 missiles at a single time, a maximum takeoff weight of over 3 tonnes, a service ceiling of 9 km, an endurance of up to 60 hours and a range of 10,000 km.
Video: China's homegrown CH-5 drone holds live-fire drill youtu.be/HcETgSM_AAY
I and unable to find any examples of Iran exporting Chinese weapons to substantiate your claim and which Chinese missile did not hit the target near Indonesia? China has inducted the world's first operational anti-ship ballistic missile, a "carrier killer" capable of carrying a nuclear warhead, known as the DF-21D.
Video: China DF-21D Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile youtu.be/p-cEunmqXM8
The DF-21D is capable of targeting aircraft carrier strike groups out in the open ocean, from the safety of the land. The DF-21D is launched from land-based mobile launchers and flies high up into the stratosphere, using its advanced maneuverability to avoid interception by anti-missile defenses below, before falling at hypersonic speeds (above Mach 20) The warhead is even capable of terminal guidance, making last minute adjustments to its trajectory just seconds before impact.
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@shubhamsuryawanshi658 Congratulations on India's 2019 Anti-satellite test. This comment thread was posted over 1 year ago, at the time when India had not tested any anti-satellite weapons.
And the T-90 is Russian tank design, India is only granted the license to build T-90, but Russia may suddenly decide to withdraw the license.
Can you explain how is India's Arjun Mk 2 better than China's Type 99 Main Battle Tank? The Arjun Mk 2 has poor firepower, their rifled 120 mm gun is inferior to the Type 99's smoothbore 125 mm cannon. Smoothbore is the way to go for modern tanks. India also dropped the LAHAT missile which is a bad move and the indigenous new missile is still being tested, leaving the lousy APFSDS round, which only has 300 mm penetrative and as compared to China's Type 99 penetration of 600 mm.
Both tanks have explosive reaction armor and composites, but the Arjun Mk 2 has poorer coverage as much of the turret is uncovered as compared to the Type 99. The Type 99 is also among the world's fastest tanks, with 1500 hp engine, but only weighing 52 tonnes, while the Arjun Mk 2 has 1400 hp engine and weighs 68 tonnes.
Besides, if China and India fight, it would most likely be over the Himalayas, and mountainous terrain is not as suitable for heavy tanks. As a response, China developed a Light Tank, the Type-15 which is suitable for mountainous terrain deployment like in Tibet, Donglong (Doklam) and in the Himalayas.
Video: China's New Light Tank So Fast youtu.be/Fia_O_47IQk
Video: China's Newest Tank, the Type 15 Makes Parade Debut youtu.be/NrQM7x5-myA
On the other hand, Indian Army lacks a proper light tank to engage China on the mountainous Himalayas battlefield.
Video: Indian Army shows interest in Light Tanks for defense along the border youtu.be/IljAqpDVytA
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@shubhamsuryawanshi658 Indian Su30 detected China's Chengdu J-20 5th generation stealth fighter, because the J-20 was on training mission and they equipped with special "radar-reflectors" (Luneburg lens) attached to enlarge and conceal its true radar cross section during peacetime operations. Even the US Airforce equip their F-22 and F-35 with this radar reflectors during peacetime for safety and training purposes, due to the potential for accidents and identification from other aircraft or ground installations.
Source: Luneburg lens: Radar reflector wikipedia.org/wiki/Luneburg_lens#Radar_reflector
Of course, during actual wartime, our J-20 stealth fighters won't be equipped with this radar reflectors used during peacetime. Only 3 countries in the world have flown full-size stealth combat aircraft demonstrations and they are United States (in 1977), Russia (in 2010) and China (in 2011). Even today, only 2 countries have active stealth fighters serving operationally in our airforce and they are USA and China.
Source: Stealth Aircraft wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_aircraft#Manned
China's Type 99 or ZTZ-99 is 3rd generation battle tank that is ranked among the World's Top 10 Main Battle Tanks, with advanced features including:
-a fully stabilised smoothbore gun with autoloader, capable of firing anti-tank sniper missiles, and speculated to be able to penetrate the armour of the US M1 Abrams at close range with tungsten rounds.
-Composite armour hull with front portion and turret protected by explosive reactive armour that resist enemy shell penetration.
-A multi-layered radar system that detects and denotates incoming enemy missiles before impact.
-A laser warning receiver that warns the tank commander that the tank is being painted by hostile lasers.
Source: China showcases Type 99 Battle Tank youtu.be/ktniek01Xyw
Source: Top 10 Most Powerful Tanks youtu.be/M3n6q_dTjfk?t=385
And its up there with the fastest to boot, equipped with turbo-charged engine providing a maximum road speed of 50 mph (80 kph).
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Ashutosh Kumar Why are you certain that long range missiles won't be used? Even North Korea clearly launched a long range missile reaching Japanese islands, so what makes you think China won't do the same? Even if no warheads are deployed, launching long range missile will help test its range and its ability to reach targets isn't it?
I have demonstrated that China has plenty of other assets besides ICBM. China has DF-21D "Carrier Killer" which can be used to target warships at sea, from the safety of the land. If it does manage to sink a carrier, it will be a tremendous morale boost for PLA, (and lower Indian morale) and it will also send a message to US carriers that China's DF-21D works. Even if it fails, it will provide valuable data for us to improve our missile capabilities.
China also has numerous submarines that can help spot and paint targets for DF-21 deployment. Chinese submarines also can be equipped with submarine-launched anti-ship cruise missile, possibly posing a danger to US carrier strike groups, while putting Chinese submarines at a safe distance from most anti-submarine warfare systems.
In mountainous combat scenario, China can deploy aerial units like our very own domestically made combat UAVs, such as Caihong-3, Caihong-4 and possibly even Caihong-5. The drones will provide valuable reconnaissance and are slightly more difficult to detect on radar, while being capable of equipping and firing air-to-ground missiles to engage targets. Even if they are destroyed, no PLA soldiers lives are lost, and it frees up the PLA soldiers to perform other urgent tasks elsewhere.
Did I already mention that China has anti-satellite capabilities, and can theoretically take out Indian military satellites in space to put Indian ground troops at disadvantage without satellite comms and coordination?
There is a possibility of a draw yes, but even in this simulation, China still has a marginal victory, due to many factors that I have provided recently. Even if its a draw, it will boost PLA's combat experience as well as act as a testing bed for all the new technologies. But in my opinion it is unlikely to be draw, and even the simulation agrees that China will have acquired some new territory.
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+Kunal Varshney North Korea launched a missile directly at Japanese mainland, and you still want to ask what China will do if India launches Agni V towards China? Did North Korea get retaliated by full scale nuclear weapons? No it didn't, so why assume China will react like India and retaliate with full scale nuclear weapon? Why you assume India will retaliate with full scale nuclear weapon then? This point is brought up by you, so why don't you prove it yourself first that India will retaliate with nukes?
The engine problems have largely been solved with the development of WS-15 engines, and the J-20 is still able to climb to Tibetan airport. As for production Here is a Chinese news article indicating that 15 new models have emerged. The sensitive nature of stealthfighters means that the PLA will not tell the public how many of such aircraft are at the PLA Airforce disposal.
Source:mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2017-06-14/doc-ifyfzfyz3941865.shtml
India owns the water outside the strait? How exactly? You still need permission from those South East Asia countries if you want Indian warships to pass close to their waters. The Nicobar and Andaman Islands are wide, and Chinese subs have greater chance of sneaking through. Also, I did mention that China has submarine base located in Djibouti, so how many more are hidden throughout the oceans to resupply submarines passing through to the Indian Ocean?
Its your opinion that you believe in your submarine detection capabilities. Then I should also be able to believe in the stealthiness of Chinese submarines, since they have been demonstrated to be able to surface in the middle of US Navy exercise (seemingly undetected) and within torpedo range of the USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier.
You mean you can just discount a war of attrition between India and China and claim that it is out of this debate? Besides basic fighting equipment and advanced weaponry, China will most definitely deploy aerial units in mountainous combat scenario, such as our combat UAVs like CaiHong-3 and Caihong-4 (perhaps CaiHong-5 as well). These UAVs are unmanned, and even if destroyed there is no lost of Chinese lives in their destruction, so PLA soldiers can continue to enjoy our numerical advantage in the battle field.
About ASAT, as far as I know, US and India did not sign any agreement regarding sharing satellite intelligence. Even if India agrees, will USA agree to share its satellite information with India, since India is also Russian ally as well?
China not only has short range missiles, but missiles like DF-21 can also be deployed for land use. The DF-21 flies high above the stratosphere and has guidance system to help avoid anti-missile defenses and adjust its course. During reentry, the DF-21 is capable of achieving hypersonic speeds of up to Mach 10 or 10 times the speed of sound, in order to hit a target.
Video:China DF-21D Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile youtube.com/watch?v=p-cEunmqXM8
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+Kunal Varshney Why is comparing NK with case of China laughable? Didn't Akin Khoo mentioned earlier that NK is technically still at war with the Allies? If India mistook China's long range ballistic missile as a nuclear attack, and retaliates with full scale nuclear assault, then it would be Indian's grave mistake to have attacked a country with nukes, without being attacked with it first, isn't it? I mean, its India's own fault for not noticing that it wasn't a nuclear assault, isn't it?
About Chengdu J-20, you mentioned earlier that "producing 30 fighters in a 1st year is impossible...china have not yet set enough facilities for that...wait i will quote you articles regarding that..." and it has been sometime, yet you still haven't quoted me articles regarding that. Yet you now want me to provide source on J-20, when you haven't quoted me sources like you said you would? If you claim J-20 can't fly over Himalayas, then why was the J-20 photographed at Daocheng Yading airport in Tibet, which is the world's highest altitude civilian airport then?
I am talking about Indian warships in the straits, not in South China Sea. They also will need permission from those countries if they want to be there to intercept Chinese submarines, isn't it? Why you think Chinese submarines (which are stealthily submerged) will need permission, when it is the clearly visible Indian warships located in the straits that will attract attention here?
You think this video alone is enough to justify all entry routes? There is the 3rd option which longer and require more supplies, but China also has a submarine base in Djibouti to resupply Chinese submarines making the long trip. There are even plans to build another submarine base near Gwadar Port in Pakistan too.
India may be able to import advanced weaponry from Russia and USA, but they will be subject to market prices, and the deliveries may take time to reach India. Also, India is unable to produce important components of some of its heavier military equipment.
And the Indian ASAT capabilities have not been realized yet so far. And how can you prove that USA will be willing to share its sensitive military satellite data with India? Is there a written agreement stating that USA is willing to share satellite data with Indian military?
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MickeyG Shooting down satellites in space is exceedingly difficult yes, which is why only three countries have achieved it thus far. But it is not altogether impossible, as demonstrated by China, Soviet Union and USA. Whether Indian Army relies on it or not, taking out Indian military satellites in space will deny them strategic satellite surveillance from the ground. During war, China will make use of such options if the benefits outweigh the costs.
As for taking out Indian carriers, it offers strategic value in numerous ways. It boosts Chinese morale, while lowering India's, it shows that China's anti ship missile are effective, but if it fails, then it provides valuable data for Chinese military to improve on its design. Like the other guy said, the DF-21d has never been tested on a moving target, so won't this be an excellent opportunity to test it? If the DF-21 really lives up to its name, then it will also send a strong signal to other countries with aircraft carriers of their own, like USA, telling them that China is capable of targeting their aircraft carriers. Even if Indian aircraft carriers keep away from the shores, I have shown that Chinese submarines have submarine launched anti ship cruise missiles that could pose a threat to US carriers.
Now instead of Taj Mahal, you are talking about Mumbai? Why not aim for real strategic targets like supply lines, fuel depots and ammunition dumps instead? Just like why do you bother calling it strategic sites when you considered thousands of sites earlier? Exactly how is it being strategic when you are considering thousands of sites as tactical targets?
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+Kunal Varshney North Korean missiles have flown over Japanese airspace before, but it has not been retaliated with full scale nuclear attack, so why do you still claim China's long range ballistic missile with be mistaken for nuclear attack by India? I mean, isn't this your own speculation on India's part? How can you prove India will mistake China's long range missile launch as nuclear attack and retaliate with nukes of its own?
If China is at war with India, why would China not consider deploying anti satellite missiles? The benefit to China are many, and under the militarization of space, nuclear weapons are prohibited, but not conventional weapons.
The PLA Airforce would not have pressed J-20 into service, if there isn't any significant numbers of it to be fielded during actual war. Otherwise, why press the J-20 into service if it isn't ready for actual deployment yet? The J-20 is also capable of landing on Tibetan airport, so why do you claim that it can't fly over Himalayas?
So if you claim Chinese submarines need permission to pass through South East Asia straits, then won't Indian warships need permission to be there as well? And why do you think there is only one route through to Indian ocean?
Brahmos missile is unable to target submerged submarines, so how much of a threat is it at all to Chinese submarines? Our subs can also be equipped with anti ship cruise missiles that can be launched while being safely out of range of many anti-submarine weapons.
The thing about artillery, armor and other military hardware is that during wartime, China can always make more tanks, howitzers, fighters, drones, ammunition and equipment to replace losses. But India has to import weapons and ammunition from foreign countries like USA and Russia. If these countries suddenly decide to raise prices of their wares, India still has no choice but to buy their weapons from them.
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If India mistook China's DF-41 for a nuclear attack, then again, it is India's grave mistake, not China. Look at North Korea has been testing missiles (some of them flying over Japanese mainland) but nobody every mistook that as a nuclear attack and retaliate with full scale nuclear assault on N. Korea.
China has demonstrated anti-satellite capabilities in 2007, and India has not yet, so why do you think China won't take out Indian Army satellites in space? If you are quoting the militarization of space treaty, then the treaty does not prohibit the placement of conventional weapons in orbit and thus some highly destructive attack strategies such as kinetic bombardment are still potentially allowable. If its a real war between China and India, I see no reason why China is not allowed to destroy Indian military satellites in space.
Its impossible to know the exact figure of how many Chengdu J-20 are present in PLA Airforce, unless you are the PLA General himself. Also, J-20 is not just been conceived in a single year, it has already been in the works for many years, and since it is being prep to enter actual service, it could be possible that multiple aircraft were in production years before the J-20 being deployed into active service. Who knows except for the commander of PLA? Also, wasn't a J-20 spotted in Tibetan airport, indicating that the aircraft is at least capable of flying over Tibet to the Himalayas?
China has advanced artillery of our own. China's PLZ-05 self propelled howitzer ranks among the Top 10 Howitzers in the world, together with PLZ-52 (which is export version). China's Multi Launch Rocket Systems (MLRS) are also consistently among the world's Top 10, such as SR-5, AR-3 and WS-2D, as shown in the following videos. In my personal opinion, I would say China's level of artillery support is possibly more advanced than India's.
Video:Top 10 Self Propelled Howitzer in the World 2017 youtube.com/watch?v=AQBcIRwg2fg
Video:Top 10 MLRS In The World 2017 youtube.com/watch?v=66ETMGNrh98
You appear to underestimate the stealth capabilities of Chinese submarines, which have been moving undetected and spreading out all over the world's seas and oceans. Back in 2007, a Chinese submarine surfaced while in a middle of a US Navy exercise, involving the US carrier, USS Kitty Hawk. Apparently, the Chinese submarine was undetected, and managed to surface within torpedo range of the aircraft carrier.
But if Chinese submarines have anti-ship cruise missiles like shown in my previous source, then there will be no need to come so close to the aircraft carrier before opening fire.
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How is it a mistake on China's part, if India is the one retaliating with full scale nuclear attack? If India mistook China's long range ballistic missile as a nuclear attack, and retaliated with nukes of their own, then straightaway, India is the one preemptively launching nuclear attack on China.
If other artillery systems are under acquisition by India, that means its not available for military deployment yet isn't it? And what happens if during actual wartime, the Indian army is cut off from acquiring this equipment? In China's case, we can always make more tanks, fighters, artillery guns, ammunition, drones, etc ourselves to replace losses during wartime.
Chinese submarines are still present in Indian Ocean, despite all those difficulties you claim they will encounter. If you think countries won't allow Chinese submarines movement for combat role, then likewise they won't allow Indian warships movement for combat role as well isn't it?
You are just speculating about PAD being Indian ASAT, then that means there is no guarantee that India's ASAT will be successful. Also, you claim India and USA will share satellites, but what makes you so sure? Is there an actual written agreement showing that USA will share its sensitive military satellite data with India?
As for your sources about J-20 production, how do you know the actual numbers of China's Chengdu J-20, unless you are the actual PLA Airforce general yourself? And what makes you think J-20 are incapable of flying over the Himalayas? The J-20 stealth fighter has been spotted at Daocheng Yading in Tibet, the highest civilian airport in the world after all.
Although the CH-5 has not entered service yet, earlier versions like the CH-4 are active and have been exported to Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iraq. CH-4 is capable of firing air-to-ground missile from altitude of 5,000 meters, therefore the aircraft can stay outside of effective range of most anti-aircraft guns. It also allow CH-4 to be able to fire from a position that provides wider viewing area.
Chinese submarines remain the best option for scouting out Indian warships to be targeted by DF-21. China has also been developing a new submarine-launched anti-ship cruise missile, with range of about 290 km, which would put Chinese submarines at a safe distance from most anti-submarine warfare systems.
Source:China Unveils New Submarine-Launched Anti-Ship Cruise Missile thediplomat.com/2016/04/china-unveils-new-submarine-launched-anti-ship-cruise-missile/
If you claim DF-21 has not been tested against a moving target, then I can also say India' PAD being modified to become ASAT weapon has not been tested at all too. Would you prefer Indian warships to be the DF-21D's first target? The DF-21 has undergone extensive testing outside of any combat situation to get to where it is today, wheres India's ASAT capabilities have not progressed at all.
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If India mistook China's long range ballistic missile as nuclear attack, and launched a full scale nuclear retaliation, then it would be India's grave mistake to have launched a preemptive nuclear attack on China without first having been attacked by nuclear weapons from China. It would be India's fault for not first confirming that the attacks weren't made using nuclear weapons.
As far as I know, Indian ATAGS are not yet in full operation. it was started in 2013 by DRDO to replace older guns in service, and took 4 years of development, yet ATAGS are still not operational in Indian Army, even in 2018. As for China, the PLA conducted live-fire exercises in Tibet using mobile artillery, howitzers, multi-launch systems, mortars, etc. according to the following video.
Video:Chinese Army carries out military exercise on Tibet plateau youtube.com/watch?v=a8bNgIckr10
The Chengdu J-20 was inducted into PLA Airforce operational service in March 2017, and Chinese sources indicate about 30-40 of the fighters have been built. But of course, any military won't just give away the actual numbers of its military aircraft just like that.
If you want to claim the DF-21D "Carrier Killer" is unproven, then why you just claim PAD anti ballastic missile can be modified for anti-satellite role just like that? Has your supposed Indian "anti-satellite" missile even been tested at all, like China's anti-satellite missile? Otherwise, how can you just claim India can modify its missile to be anti-satellite, without actual tests?
China's testing of DF-21 has been observed and noted by military agencies of Russia and USA, so isn't there reason to believe this weapon poses a significant threat? OTH is just one of China's possibility to acquire targets, and China can always use submarines to help pinpoint the actual location of ships in Indian Ocean. PLA Navy also deployed many underwater sea drones (across South China Sea) so why can't these drones be deployed in Indian Ocean too?
Speaking of drones, in mountainous combat scenario, the PLA can deploy aerial units like our very own combat UAVs, like the CaiHong-5, which has been compared to to USA's Reaper combat drone. During testing, the drone flew for about 30 hours, providing surveillance and carried missiles to engage targets, requiring little or no ground support. But India recently crashed its own Israeli-made drone in 2017 after violating Chinese airspace.
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If you want to consider thousands of strategic targets in India, then why even bother to label them as "strategic" targets at all? "Strategic target" implies that out of a huge number, you pick a smaller and manageable number of targets and attack them tactically for maximum benefit, isn't it?
In my opinion, strategic targets would be important cites like supply lines, fuel depots, munitions dumps, etc, not monuments like the Taj Mahal. Why does China need to completely destroy the target? What does that achieve? As long as the strategic site has been crippled enough to be unable to support Indian troops or contribute to Indian war machine, then the missiles have achieved their objective. Why focus on destroying a single target, when the main objective is to win the war?
In actual warfare, the PLA won't just use MIRV capable missiles alone. An attack could possibly be combined with stealth fighter runs (by Chengdu J-20s for example) or it could be used to soften up the target before a ground attack by Type-99 tanks and infantry. Afterall, the MIRV capabilities of the DF-21 is just one of the many military options that the PLA can choose to deploy during war that's all. Just like China's anti-satellite missiles can always be deployed to take out Indian military satellites in orbit, to put Indian Navy ships and ground troops at a disadvantage without satellite support from above. All these technological implements are designed to give China an edge over India during such a war scenario.
As for China's "Carrier Killer" DF-21D, there are ways of locating Indian ships in Indian Ocean, such as using Over-the-Horizon Radars. Chinese military satellites in space may be able to spot the ships, or PLAN submarines in the Indian Ocean could reveal the ships locations to the missile launchers on land.
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@shubhamsuryawanshi658 Where's news about India's 6th generation fighter? China has reportedly begun 6th generation fighter development, and has made important breakthroughs in designing and developing several key components, including next-generation engine, planning to field it in the 2025–2030 time frame.
Source: Sixth Generation Jet fighter wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth-generation_jet_fighter#China
The HAL Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) is an Indian programme to develop a fifth-generation fighter aircraft, not 6th generation.
As for world's most powerful satellite, China's Gaofen 4 (高分-4), launched on December 28, 2015 from Xichang in central China, on a CZ-3B/Long March 3 rocket, to a geosynchronous orbit 22,000 miles above the Earth.
Source: Gaofen 4, The World's Most Powerful GEO Spy Satellite, Continues China's Great Leap Forward Into Space popsci.com/gaofen-4-worlds-most-powerful-geo-spy-satellite-continues-chinas-great-leap-forward-into-space/
The Gaofen 4 is the world's most powerful GEO spy satellite. It has a color image resolution of slightly less than 50 meters (which is enough to track aircraft carriers by their wake at sea) and a thermal imaging resolution of 400m (good for spotting forest fires). It may also have a lower resolution video streaming capacity. Because of its round-the-clock coverage of Chinese territory and near aboard, Gaofen 4 can provide instant coverage of earthquake or typhoon hit areas to support humanitarian relief. It will also allow China to monitor strategic foreign sites such as WMD facilities and naval bases inside its observation box.
China's Gaofen-5 (高分-5) is the world's first full spectrum hyperspectral satellite for environmental imaging launched into space.
Video: China Launches World's First Full Spectrum Hyperspectral Satellite for Environmental Imaging youtu.be/AgYhHaNcjPc
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Tibet was part of China since 800 years ago, when Mongolians conquered both Tibet and Song dynasty China, and made Tibet part of Yuan dynasty. Tibet broke free of China in 1911, but was reincorporated back in 1951, and under Chinese government, Tibetan lives have improved tremendously. For example, mountainous Tibetan soil is infertile, and the serfs struggle to feed the population and the 5% elite slave owners. Starvation was commonplace, crime was punished by torture and mutilation, even by skinning. There is Tibetan drum called damaru that make use of human slave skulls, human skin and using human bone for the drumstick.
But under Chinese government, Tibet's population grew from 1.14 million in 1951, to around 3 million today, triple its size today. This is because food can now be imported from the mainland to feed Tibetans. As far as I know, Tibet's population is 90% Tibetan and about 6% Han Chinese, so how is the ethnic local populations being replaced? Han Chinese settle in Tibet to help build roads and infrastructure like railways, such as Qinghai railway (world's highest elevation railway) going through difficult mountainous terrain with low oxygen environments, so that the normally isolated Tibet is connected with rest of the world.
Source:Tibet's population was 1.14 million in 1951. is.china-embassy.org/eng/zt/ChinasTibet/t427565.htm
If you don't "re-educate" the Kashmir people, then how will the people of Kashmir ever feel like they are part of India? The Kashmir people feel alienated by Indians, and Indian Army can just commit atrocities like rape on Muslim women, without retribution. The Indian Army still has to deal with separatists issue, just like PLA in Tibet as well, and abuse the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act that protect Indian higher-ups from persecution by rape victims.
India is the world's largest democracy, but what exactly has it done for India at all? But China is even worst, since we are communist country, and automatically doomed to fail, isn't it? Jai Hind! Please rescue poor Chinese from our own government here!
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Like I said, Tibet was made part of China since 800 years by Mongolians (and also later by the Manchu people) so why are you blaming Han Chinese, when it was Mongolians and Manchu people that made Tibet part of China? You claim Tibetans are violently disagreeing with this, but where is your evidence? Only small minority of Tibetans in Tibet have separatist ideals, but other than that, the Tibetans have largely accepted Chinese sovereignty. You mean just because a few separatists from India, in Kashmir or North East India want to break away from India, means the all those states want independence? What is your logic here?
As for opium, yes, during the 19th century, the British wanted to continue drinking our tea, but had nothing that Chinese people wanted in return, so British waged two blood wars and forced Chinese people to buy opium from them at gunpoint, which we didn't want because it made us sick and was poisoning our people, turning us into dogs of the West.
But today, China is no dog of the West anymore. Modern China was built by sweat, blood, tears and sacrifice of Chinese people to turn China from dirt-poor, starving and wartorn country, into an economic power, protected by world's largest land army, the PLA, and potential rival to USA. 30 years ago, nobody expected Communist China to ever succeed or to participate in global activities. After the Soviet Union collapse, many people assumed China will be next. But China didn't fall and instead became an economic juggernaut today and a global player of world politics. You can hardly go through the day's news without any mention of China at all, since China now has such a large global presence.
But what of India? Is India still a doing the bidding of the West? You want to talk about human spirit, then Chinese people have worked hard to get to where we are to day, building infrastructure, working long hours at sweatshops, earning only a pittance over years to get to where we are today. You and the Western media keep saying "This will be China's downfall" but China is still here and growing stronger everyday, so who is the ignorant one here?
I mean, you still haven't produced any evidence of the human rights violations against the Ugyhurs at all, whereas I have shown the rape that is going on in Kashmir on Muslim women. Yet you still said previously: "Exactly. That's why I don't understand why Muslims hate India and support China."
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During wartime, China can always manufacture more weapons, ammunition, missiles tanks, fighters, etc, to replace losses incurred. But India relies on purchasing foreign military hardware from countries like USA and Russia, and these countries may just suddenly increase the prices of their wares during wartime, because they know India has no choice but to buy from them, if they want to continue fighting with China.
China has built roads and supply lines throughout Tibet so that our troops, armor and supplies can reach the front line much faster. China even conducted a live fire exercise in Tibet, during the Doklam Standoff, showing off our artillery guns, howitzers, mortars, multi-launch rocket systems, etc, even in the high Tibetan plateau.
Video:Chinese Army carries out military exercise on Tibet plateau youtube.com/watch?v=a8bNgIckr10
China even have our own light tank, the VT5, suitable for combat in mountainous terrain combat like Doklam, Tibet, Kashmir, etc, whereas India's has no suitable light tank at the moment and is making requests to order one of its own.
Video:China shows off the capability of its new VT5 light tank youtube.com/watch?v=hQtH4L0LsDM
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-China is the 3rd country in the world to demonstrate anti-satellite capabilities. Indian satellites aren't safe.
-China has tested hypersonic missiles such as DF-17 that travel many times speed of sound and difficult to intercept.
-China has world's longest range ICBM, the DF-41, that can hit India from way beyond the Tibetan plateau
-China has missiles with multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle (MIRV) capability.
-China has anti-ship ballistic missiles, like DF-21 nicknamed "Carrier killer" that can target ships, from safety of the land.
-China is 2nd country in the world, besides USA, to actively operate stealth fighters, like Chengdu J-20 in our air force.
-China manufactures our own combat drones, like CaiHong-5 which have been compared to US Reaper combat drone.
-China has successfully mounted and tested a railgun on our vessels. Wartime might push this development further.
-China manufactures our own tanks, fighters, ammunition and equipment, whereas India has to rely in importing foreign military hardware to replace losses.
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Chinese government make many 5-year plans, 10-year plans, 20-year plans to map out China's long term future in 2020, 2030, 2040, 2050, etc, because our leaders can remain in power long enough to implement those plans.
But because you have democracy, then your leaders will have to eventually step down someday, so how can they make long term plans spanning decades? Look at USA, having only 4-8 year presidential term, so they make short term plans instead of long term plands.
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It's India's choice not to come on board OBOR, and China respects India's decision. But that does not mean India's neighbors don't want Chinese business. China is making Asia strong, by building infrastructure in less developed countries like Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Maldives, as well as African countries like Nigeria, Kenya, Angola, etc.
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