Comments by "神州 Shenzhou" (@Shenzhou.) on "The Armchair Historian"
channel.
-
During Unit 731, Japanese scientists conducted inhuman experiments on Chinese prisoners, including men, women and children. Prisoners were infected with various diseases and then subjected to live vivisection, often without anesthesia. Scientists performed invasive surgeries, organs were removed, limbs amputated and then reattached to opposite sides of the body, all while the subject is alive. Some prisoners even had their stomachs removed and their esophagus reattached to the intestines, presumably to measure how long humans can survive without the stomach.
The women had it worst during Unit 731. Prisoners were injected with sexually transmitted diseases and then forced at gunpoint to spread the infection to other prisoners. Women were raped and impregnated (sometimes by Japanese themselves) and then vivisected at various stages of their pregnancy to study the effects of diseases on their organs or on the fetus. Some Japanese scientists even raped female prisoners and then had experiments conducted on unborn children they fathered with female prisoners there.
Imagine if you are woman prisoner in Unit 731. Or you are a man injected with STD and then forced at gunpoint to have sex to spread it to other prisoners? Why not simply inject everyone with STD, instead of forcing prisoners to spread STD by sex? Or imagine having your limbs amputated and reattached to opposite sides of your body, all without anastasia.
203
-
90
-
90
-
+Haruka ino During Unit 731, Japanese soldiers conducted human experiments on Chinese prisoners, including men, women and children. Prisoners were subjected to live vivisection after infecting them with various diseases, and often without anesthesia and usually ending with their death. Organs were removed, limbs frozen and amputated, and reattached to opposite sides of the body, while the subject is kept alive, because it was thought that death will affect the results. Some prisoners even had their stomachs removed and their gullet attached to their intestines, just to see how long humans can survive without the stomach.
Japanese scientists experimented with sexually transmitted diseases, by injecting prisoners and forcing them to spread the disease to other people at gunpoint. Women were raped and impregnated (sometimes by Japanese themselves) and then vivisected at various stages to study the effects of diseases on their organs, or on their pregnancy. Japanese scientists literally raped prisoners and then had experiments conducted on unborn children they fathered with female prisoners. Can you imagine if you are woman in Unit 731? Or imagine you are a man injected with STD and forced to have sex at gunpoint to spread it to other prisoners? Why not simply inject everyone with STD in the first place instead?
All Chinese people wanted to do was defend our lands and protect our loved ones that's all. But Japanese invaded our lands, stole our territory, killed our men, raped our women and conducted scientific experiments on our children.
73
-
60
-
+Haruka ino During the Dalai Lama administration of Tibet, Tibet was a brutal theocracy, where 95% of the population were slaves and the remaining 5% elites (slave owners). Tibetan mountainous soil was poor, and the people were surrounded by mountains, so the slaves worked all day to grow food to feed the population and support the 5% elites. Starvation was commonplace, punishments were harsh, people had limbs amputated for crimes or even their skins removed. There is this Tibetan drum called damaru that is made from human skulls, human skin as the drumskin, and human bone as the drumstick. The Dalai Lama was worshiped and people fought for the right to consume his body fluids like saliva, urine and even his feces, because he was seen as a holy vessel by the people.
But after the government regained control of Tibet in 1951, it began to modernize under the government. Roads, houses, streetlamps, schools, universities, hospitals, etc were built, and homes now had running water, plumbing, gas and electricity installed. Modern technology, like cars, smartphones, computers, the Internet, WiFi, and mobile phone coverage were available, even in such remote place like Himalayas. Chinese built the Qinghai Railway (world's highest altitude railway) through difficult mountain terrain and low oxygen conditions, and connecting Tibet to the rest of the world. Now food can be imported from the mainland to feed Tibetans and their population has increased because of that. A tourist industry has even sprung up in Tibet, allowing pilgrims much easier access to the otherwise isolated state in the Himalayas.
56
-
48
-
46
-
45
-
26
-
The Japanese also conducted inhumane experiments on Chinese men, women and children. Prisoners in Unit 731 were infected with various diseases and subjected to live vivisection, often without anesthesia. Japanese scientists performed invasive surgeries, organs were removed, limbs amputated, and then reattached to opposite sides of the body, all while the subject is still alive and conscious. Prisoners even had their stomachs removed and their gullet reattached to the intestines, presumably to see how long humans can survive without the stomach.
The women had it worst during Unit 731. There were experiments with sexually transmitted diseases, by first injecting prisoners and forcing them at gunpoint to spread the infection to other prisoners. Women were raped and impregnated (sometimes by Japanese themselves) and then vivisected at various stages of their pregnancy to study the effects of diseases on their organs or on the fetus they were carrying. Some Japanese scientists even raped female prisoners themselves and then had experiments conducted on unborn children they fathered with female prisoners.
I mean, can you imagine if you are woman prisoner in Unit 731? Or that you are a man injected with STD and forced to have sex at gunpoint to spread it to other prisoners? Why not simply inject everyone with STD, instead of forcing prisoners to spread STD by sex? Can you imagine if you had your stomach removed just to see how long you can survive without it?
24
-
21
-
21
-
20
-
20
-
19
-
17
-
17
-
15
-
15
-
Daniel Vedberg Sekulic You claimed that I am definitely wrong to assume Tibetans are better off today then under the Dalai Lama? Then can you prove how I am definitely wrong then?
Did the Tibetans have Internet at all, under the Dalai Lama rule? Today, China has the world's largest Internet population and thanks to that, Tibetans can enjoy Internet access and WiFi, allow the normally isolated place in the Himalayas, to enjoy better connectivity with rest of the world today. You claim Tibet prosperity is "outrightly wrong" then can you prove how it is outrightly wrong? Did Tibetans have any universities or schools, or hospitals, etc, prior to coming under Chinese control in 1951?
I think you are confusing Xinjiang with Tibet, as they are both different provinces of China and have different demographic presence and religions. Tibetans are not Muslims, they are Buddhists and the Muslims in Xinjiang (the Uighurs) aren't Tibetans or Buddhists. And I believe both of those people enjoy better education, better healthcare, better housing, better amenities like running water, gas and electricity, under Chinese rule, than they did on their own.
Countries all over the world recognize Tibet as an autonomous region of China. Which country today recognize Tibetan independence? Look at part 1:35 of the video, and Tibet was part of Qing dynasty China. Look at part 1:48 of the video and Tibet was part of Republic of China. Look at a Map of PRC today, and Tibet is part of China.
You think that Buddhist philosophy alone can keep the people in Tibet fed? That by rejecting material wealth, desires and so on, it becomes an excuse to keep Tibet constantly poor and cut off from modernization? Do you know what Tibet was like under the Dalai Lama rule? It was brutal theocracy, where 95% of the population were slaves, and the 5% elites were slave owners. Tibetan mountainuous soil was infertile, and slaves had to work all day to produce enough food to feed the population, but thanks to modernization, Tibet can now import food from the mainland (through the Qinghai railway) to feed its population. More universities are built in Tibet, so Tibetans can go to school, graduate and venture into cities to find jobs.
I mean, you think every Tibetan wants to be a yak farmer, or a monk? Because those two are virtually the ONLY options available to Tibetans under the Dalai Lama rule.
15
-
14
-
+Daniel Vedberg Sekulic Tibet has been part of China since 800 years ago, when the Mongolians conquered both Tibet and Song dynasty China, and made them part of Yuan dynasty China. And since when did any country recognized Tibetan independence at all? USA, UK, France, Russia, Germany, etc, they all accept Tibet as an autonomous region of China.
Life for Tibetans did improve, and I already quoted various examples to prove my case. But you just claim that life didn't improve in Tibet, then why don't you show exactly how? Tibet broke free of Qing China in 1912 and was reincorporated back in 1951, so for 39 years it was beyond China's control, but it doesn't mean that it was recognized as its own independent state by other countries. Which country recognized Tibetan independence then during that period? In 1951, The Dalai Lama signed the Seventeen Point Agreement for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet and affirmed Chinese sovereignty over Tibet.
You said so yourself that "What kind of Tibetian have the economy to buy these things since the majority is at best farmers the standard of life in tibet have been quite the same for a long time." But now, Tibetans have the money to spend on cars, electricity, smartphones, computers, Internet and WiFi, so why do you still claim "Did life improve in Tibet?" so aren't you contradicting yourself a bit here?
Yes, its true that there is usually poor Internet reception and mobile phone coverage in mountainous regions. But thanks to the mainland building telecommunications infrastructure in Tibet, people and tourists in Tibet can enjoy decent mobile phone coverage and Internet, even in such a remote location like the Himalayas. And Tibet didn't even have electricity or gas in their houses, prior to 1951. Yet you still claim "Did life improve in Tibet?"
Since when is Tibet off limits to foreigners? So many tourists, both foreign and local, visit Tibet every day to pray at its temples during pilgrimages, go on mountain hikes, and so on. Ever since the Qinghai railway was built to connect Tibet to rest of the world, the tourism industry in Tibet has expanded rapidly and slowly becoming part of its economy. Why don't you yourself drop by Tibet one day and see for yourself what life is like over there?
Self-Immolation originated in India not Tibet, and the radical practice spread to Tibet over the years. Despite what Western media keep portraying about self-immolations in Tibet, since 2008, there have only been 100 or so self-immolations in a decade and these people are usually indoctrinated to risk their life for Western political agenda. I mean, why would any sane person burn themselves for long lost political cause? Why not work hard, go to school, graduate, get a job and start a family like most people do today?
Some Tibetans may be radical in their beliefs, but that doesn't mean all Tibetans want that sort of life. I mean, look at self-immolation in India for example, where as many as 1,451 and 1,584 self-immolations have been reported in 2000 and 2001, respectively. What's up with that? I mean, 1,000+ self-immolations in a single year, whereas in Tibet, it is an accumulated 100+ self-immolations over a period of 10 years (2008-2017) so which is worst?
Where did you get your sources about poverty statistics in China? According to World Bank, China’s poverty rate fell from 88% in 1981 to mere 6.5% in 2012. According to UNESCO, adult literacy rate of China increased from 65.5% in 1982 to a whopping 96.4% in 2015 growing at an average annual rate of 10.39%. This is an impressive feat, considering that China is world's most populous country, yet managing to achieve 6.5% poverty and 96.5% literacy given such huge population.
I mean, at least I am talking about real life examples, using statistics to support my case, but all you do is claim "Did life improve in Tibet" without going on to elaborate your point.
13
-
12
-
12
-
12
-
11
-
11
-
MissingNOLA The link below plots the increase in life expectancy in China and compares it to USA, Europ and India
Life Expectancy at Birth in China, Europe, USA and India: 1950-2100
Source: china-profile.com/data/fig_WPP2010_L0_Boths.htm
China was once dirt-poor and starving country just like India in the past, and while there were mistakes made by the CCP, under their leadership, China's population doubled, our lifespans doubled, poverty fell and literacy rose. According to World Bank, China’s poverty rate fell from 88% in 1981 to mere 6.5% in 2012. According to UNESCO, adult literacy rate of China increased from 65.5% in 1982 to a whopping 96.4% in 2015 growing at an average annual rate of 10.39%. This is an impressive feat, considering that China is world's most populous country, yet achieving 6.5% poverty and 96.4% literacy.
Also, why are you getting so "sickened" over something that happened some time ago? Many Chinese people today have long since gotten over it and moved on, then why are you feeling such strong emotions in the name of Chinese?
10
-
10
-
10
-
10
-
Daniel Vedberg Sekulic Then can you tell me which countries today recognised Tibetan independence? The UN countries (USA, UK, France, Russia, Germany, Canada, etc) all recognise that Tibet is autonomous region of China today, so where's the basis for your argument that Tibet is its own sovereign state? Nobody in UN brings up the issue Tibetan independence to China during all those UN meetings, so doesn't that mean that they accept China's sovereignty over Tibet?
You claim China nullify our own treaty with Tibet, but when did China ever do that? You claim that my argument one sided, then look at yours. You asked "Did life in Tibet improved?" and I already shown how much life in Tibet has improved didn't I?
If the KMT or Mongolian want to claim China from the PLA, then they are always welcome to try and take back China from us. Nobody is stopping those governments going to UN to reclaim China isn't it? In fact, it was the UN decision to stop recognising the Republic of China in 1971, and to recognise People's Republic of China as China. How is this flawed logic then?
Just like why you keep saying Westerners aren't allowed to Tibet? So many Western tourists come to Tibet every year to take pictures there, so where's the basis for your one sided argument? At least I quoted articles to support my claims, but all you done is make dubious claims without supporting your point at all.
For example, Tibet received a record 10 million tourists, both foreign and local in 2012, so why do you claim Westerners aren't allowed to visit Tibet? Where's your proof?
10
-
9
-
9
-
9
-
9
-
Technically, the PLA still fought against Japan for 8 years. If you have smaller numbers than your enemy, then you should strategically utilize tactics suitable for small numbers against a more numerous opponent. And after the Japanese surrender in 1945, the PLA had 1,200,000 troops (July 1945) whereas the KMT had 4,300,000 troops (June 1946) so KMT still outnumber PLA by about 3 to 1.
Furthermore, the PLA had minimal Soviet support and often had to make use of leftover Japanese tanks, whereas the KMT had the support of USA. But KMT was corrupt, and pocketed about $750 million dollars worth of US military aid, so much that US President Truman wrote that "the Chiangs, the Kungs and the Soongs (were) all thieves", and began suspending aid to KMT.
8
-
8
-
8
-
7
-
7
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
5
-
5
-
+Eric, The Fanboy Slayer World famous Shanghai is now a global financial center, a transport hub and the world's busiest container port, and so much more. Shanghai the largest city in China by population, and the second most populous city proper in the world. The port city has a long rich history, with British colonial buildings next to futuristic skyscrapers, curving highways, majestic suspension bridges, ancient Buddhist temples. At night, the city comes alive with dazzling lightshows, colorful neon light shows, brightly lit boats, and richly decorated temples.
This short 4 min video will help illustrate Shanghai's modernity.
Video: Shanghai Time Lapse youtube.com/watch?v=kI3Oc-sxSoA
5
-
5
-
Japan has a long history of invading China and Korea. Even in 1592, Japanese forces led by Toyotomi Hideyoshi invaded Korea with the intent of conquest, and after hearing of the invasion, the Ming emperor dispatched Chinese troops to Korea (Joseon Dynasty) to aid the Koreans in repelling the invaders.
Then we have the 1st Sino-Japanese war in 1894, when Japan invaded Korea again and Qing dynasty China, capturing Korea and Taiwan, and ruling over Korea for 25 years and Taiwan for 50 years.
Next we have 2nd Sino-Japanese war here, in 1931, where Japan invaded China and South East Asian countries like Philippines, Singapore, etc.
So who can rightly say that Japan won't invade China, Korea, or other countries in the future, given that for the past 300-400 years, Japan made numerous incursions into other countries for the express purpose of conquest, given this historical trend? Chinese never set foot on Japanese at all (Mongolians tried but failed) because Japan is low in resources, whereas China is rich in resources, which is why Japan made numerous advances into China throughout history.
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
3
-
+Daniel Vedberg Sekulic It was the KMT that started the whole Chinese Civil War, when Chiang Kai-shek purged thousands of communists during the Shanghai massacre of 12 April 1927. So how is Mao Zedong directing unlawful war in China? What do you even mean by unlawful war?
Tibet was part of China since 800 years, and Tibet broke free of Qing dynasty China in 1912, but was reincorporated back in 1951 (after 49 years) so how is it illegal? In 1951, the Tibetans signed the Seventeen Point Agreement (Seventeen Point Agreement for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet) acknowledging Chinese sovereignty over Tibet, so how is it illegal?
Vietnam had invaded Cambodia and overthrew its government, so as Cambodia's ally, China retaliated to teach Vietnam a lesson that's all. Also, Pol Pot was not Cambodia's founder, Tsar Alexander the 2nd was not Finland's founder, and neither are Mussolini and Hitler the founders of their respective countries, so why are you just labeling them as founders?
3
-
3
-
3
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
+Haruka ino What about Unit 731 then? During unit 731, the Japanese conducted human experiments on Chinese prisoners, including men, women and children. Prisoners were infected with various diseases, and subject to live vivisection, often without anesthesia. Japanese performed invasive surgeries into prisoners, organs were removed, limbs amputated, and then reattached to opposite sides of the body, all while the subject is kept alive. There are prisoners who even had their stomachs removed and their esophagus reattached to the intestines, presumably to see how long humans can survive without the stomach.
The women had it worst during Unit 731. There were experiments with sexually transmitted diseases, by first injecting prisoners and forcing them at gunpoint to spread the infection to other prisoners. Women were raped and impregnated (sometimes by Japanese themselves) and then vivisected at various stages to study the effects of diseases on their organs or on their pregnancy. Some Japanese scientists even raped prisoners and then had experiments conducted on unborn children they fathered with female prisoners there. I mean, can you imagine if you are woman prisoner in Unit 731? Or that you are a man injected with STD and forced to have sex at gunpoint to spread it to other prisoners? Why not inject everyone with STD, instead of forcing prisoners to spread STD by sex?
Chinese people only wanted to defend our lands that's all, and protect our homes and loved ones. But the Japanese invaded our territory, stole our lands, killed our men, raped our women and then conducted inhuman scientific experiments on our children.
2
-
2
-
2
-
-When China was strong, Japan much copied Chinese culture and language, including Chinese characters.
-When Portugese Jesuits visited Japan, Japan obtained guns from them, as well as Portuguese words like Pan (Bread), Kappa (Raincoat), Tempura (Fried food), etc.
-Now America is strong, so Japan copied English words like Kohi (Coffee), Aisu Kurime (Ice Cream),Sofuto Kurimu (Soft Cream) Anime, Baiku (Bike), Biru (Beer), Buruma (Bloomers), Doraibā (Driver), Konpyuta (Computer), Pinchi (Pinch), Faito (Fight), Keki (Cake), Imeji (Image), Konbini (Convenience Store), Terebi (Television), Tabako (Tobacco), etc.
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
+Daniel Vedberg Sekulic Those people in China died from starvation, because of the Great Chinese Famine, of which is partially due to the weather conditions causing floods and drought, killing off crops, which was beyond Mao's control as a human. Also, Mao Zedong accomplished what the previous Kuomintang administration failed to achieve, that is to unify China under one banner, making him the founding father of the People's Republic of China. Which country would disrespect its own founding father?
And that doesn't change that fact that Koreans are also protesting about Yasukuni shrine. I mean, even Emperor Hirohito himself is against the enshrinement of the Class-A Japanese warcriminals at Yasukuni. There is also a group claiming to represent Taiwanese aborigines led by politician Kao Chin Su-mei attempted to visit Yasukuni Shrine, with the purpose to request the removal of their relatives from the shrine, but were refused and they were blocked from entering Yasukuni by Japanese protesters and police.
1
-
+Daniel Vedberg Sekulic What warcrimes did Mao Zedong actually commit? Those people died because of starvation, not because of warcrimes, so why sort of question are you asking here to warrant an answer from me?
Since its my opinion, then why can't I be entitled to my own opinion? I have already shown that is not just the Chinese protesting about Yasukuni, but also the Koreans and a group representing Taiwanese Aboriginals.
I never said anything about PLA being better than KMT here at all, so why are you talking about PLA and KMT here suddenly? I never said China has corruption, and in fact, China had corruption during KMT adminstration of mainland China (1912-1949) Before that, the Qing Dynasty (before 1912) had corruption in the government as well. Before Qing dynasty, the Ming dynasty was also heavy on corruption.
You are correct that China has been this way, since the dawn of human civilization. But you are wrong that only be ruled by Power of Force, not belief, not cultural or social views. China has 5000 years of history and is among the world's oldest 'continuous' civilization still alive today, whereas other great ancient civilizations like Mesopotamia, Rome and Egypt have since faded to history. But if this formula is successful to China's longevity as a civilization, then why can't China continue to follow our own path to success? Nobody says every country has to adopt Western democracy to be successful, and China is living proof of that.
You claim I avoided your question, then aren't you also avoiding my question of "Which country would disrespect its own founding father?" Germany (Federal Republic of Germany) existed before Hitler so he isn't the true founding father of the nation of Germany here. I talk about founding fathers, but you talk about war heros and founding father of the 3rd Reich which are different matters from a nation's founding father.
For example, Mao Zedong's face is emblazoned in all our banknotes, just like Americans have their presidents faces in their notes. Because those people are of great significance to the country. Like I said, which country would disrespect its own founding father? Can you actually name a country in the world that will disrespect is own founding father?
1
-
+Daniel Vedberg Sekulic When did I said anything about ending China's Imperial Rule here? I am talking about the beginning of the Chinese Civil War, and it was KMT who started the civil war, when Chiang Kal Shek started purging communists during Shanghai massacre of 12 April 1927 (also known as "White Terror") Who started the Chinese Civil war then, if not Chiang Kal Shek?
Mao Zedong managed to unify China from its warlordism, in which the previous KMT administration failed to acheive during Republic of China era (1911-1949) You talked about those millions of Chinese deaths, but they were during a civil war, so of course Chinese will be killing Chinese. Its like the American Civil War, where Americans killed Americans, isn't it?
The first president of Finland is Kaarlo Juho Ståhlberg, not Tsar Alexander the 2nd.
Cambodia's Khmer Rouge was overthrown by Vietnam, and the People's Republic of Kampuchea. Suffice to say, Pot Pol is not the founder of Cambodia.
And like I said, Mussolini and Hitler are not the founder of Italy and Germany. Why don't you do the actual research to find out which country's founders are?
Dalai Lama himself signed the Tibetan treaty, and Chinese did make new seals for the Tibetans, but these were just personal seals with each delegate's name carved on them. Other than this, there were no forged government seals. And it was the DL himself to accepted the Seventeen point agreement making Tibet part of China.
1
-
+Daniel Vedberg Sekulic I am having a hard time following your English. The 17 Point Agreement for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet was signed by the Dalai Lama in 1951, in which the Chinese Civil war was already ended or at a stalemate after 1949 when Mao proclaimed China as the PRC. The Dalai Lama had in his possession the seal of the governor of Eastern Tibet but chose not to use it. That seal, however, was not the official seal of the Tibetan government, so not using it did not lessen the validity of the agreement.
How did China betray the treaty by seizing and annexing Tibet? Tibetan government already signed the 17 Point Agreement, so what was there for PLA to seize?
The Chinese civil war was messy period, and there were indeed many other factions fighting each other for control of China, besides the KMT and the PLA. But the fact remains that Chiang Kal Shek STARTED the war with the PLA by purging communists during Shanghai massacre. And since PLA emerged victorious and gained control over China, then why did you claim earlier that Mao directed unlawful war in China?
China during this warlord period is so messy but its thanks to PLA that China is finally reunified again and the KMT failed to unify China at all during 1912-1949. Even Tibet broke free of China's rule in 1912, but was eventually brought back to China in 1951, after signing 17 Point Agreement for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet. Since you want to claim Chiang Kal Shek didn't do the killings, then I can also claim Mao Zedong didn't do the killings, those people starved to death under the Great Chinese Famine. I mean, you claim all this bad things of Mao Zedong, but if not for him, China would still be divided and fighting among ourselves and fragmented into various states like Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, etc.
A country is strong when it is unified, and weak when its divided and fighting amongst themselves, like during warlord period. That was why a Japan was able to invade China and capture territories, because China is divided and fighting among ourselves. Even when the Japanese attacked, Chiang Kal Shek refused to ally with the communists against the Japanese, and two of his subordinates Zhang Xueliang and Yang Hucheng had to kidnap him, in order to force Chiang into an alliance with Mao, and this incident is known as the Xi'an Incident.
Otherwise, Chiang would have never allied with Mao against the Japanese.
1
-
+Daniel Vedberg Sekulic Did you just copied an entire wall of texts (from somebody's argument) and just hope to explain why the treaty is illegal? Why don't you actually read what you posted instead and come up with your own argument?
Accord to your post,"However, according to international law, this DOES NOT invalidate an agreement. So long as there is no physical violence against the signatories, an agreement is valid."
Since there was no physical violence against the signatories (Tibetan government and Dalai Lama) then isn't the treaty considered valid then?
Why is it one moment you claim "The use of newly-made personal seals instead of official governmental seals was not legal." then when earlier you claimed "That seal, however, was NOT the official seal of the Tibetan government, so not using it DID NOT lessen the validity of the agreement." Aren't you contradicting yourself here? And PLA tropps did not initiate "physical violence" so as long as there is no physical violence against the signatories, an agreement is valid isn't it? That's clearly what you said earlier.
The government did not "alter the existing political system in Tibet." Tibet has its own political system and a new Dalai Lama in Tibet, so how exactly did China alter the political system in Tibet? Can you explain how China did not honor these commitments?
According to statistics, Tibet's population was 1.14 million in 1951, but it has tripled to roughly 3.18 million Tibetans in 2014, and the population demographics are about 90% Tibetans and 8% Han Chinese. So why do you claim "As a result, Tibetans are now vastly outnumbered by Chinese migrants who receive preferential treatment in education, jobs and private enterprises." when Tibetans are still the majority in Tibet? Where's your statistical proof?
Source:Facts & Figures: Tibet's population is.china-embassy.org/eng/zt/ChinasTibet/t427565.htm
I have shown that over decades, Tibetans only had about 100 or so self-immolations. Look at India with over 1,000 self-immolations occurring every year. Isn't that a much more serious self immolation? You mean just because 100 Tibetans choose to self-immolate, means the 3,180,000 Tibetans must all listen to their demands is that it? What makes you think Tibetan self-immolators represent all of Tibetan's views?
The United Nations still recognize that Tibet is an autonomous region of China. I mean, if you think that they don't, then why doesn't US President Trump bring up Tibet during his meetings with Chinese President Xi? Why don't Russian President Putin, or German Chancellor Merkel, or British PM Theresa May, bring up the issue of Tibetan independence to President Xi? When people draw the map of People's Republic of China, Tibet is always included as part of China.
The Central Tibetan Administration is not even recognised as a sovereign government by any country (not USA, UK, France, Russia, Germany, China... even India, its host country) so what makes you think people will listen to its voice? If you want to know how Tibetans feel about China, then why not ask the Tibetans INSIDE Tibet, not the Tibetans OUTSIDE Tibet?
Source:Central Tibetan Administration wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Tibetan_Administration
The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ) is a NON-GOVERNMENT organization, so it does not have the same powers as a country's government and therefore, cannot legally recognize Tibet as Independent. Even Britain and Russia had recognized China's suzerainty over Tibet in 1907 , Great Britain and Russia engage not to enter into negotiations with Tibet except through the intermediary of the Chinese Government, so how was Tibet recognized as its own independent state then? Can you provide actual
Source:The Governments of Great Britain and Russia recognizing the suzerain rights of China in Thibet tibetjustice.org/materials/treaties/treaties12.html
1
-
+Daniel Vedberg Sekulic You said you quoted actual parts of both those who are Tibetan in exile as well as law makers, but how do you expect me to know who said what, if you don't label them at all? I have read and pointed out contradictions in your statement (such as saying on moment that "The use of newly-made personal seals instead of official governmental seals was not legal." then the next moment that "That seal, however, was not the official seal of the Tibetan government, so not using it did not lessen the validity of the agreement." So how do you expect me to know who said what when you don't label them?
You claimed the Tibetans claimed duress when PLA troops occupied Tibet, but you said so yourselve that "However, according to international law, this does not invalidate an agreement. So long as there is no physical violence against the signatories, an agreement is valid." So since the PLA troops occupied that territory, but did not resort to violence against the signatories, then the agreement is still valid, according to your words.
How did China broke our agreement? Could you be more specific about which part that China did not honor our agreement? The Panchen Lama was delegated by the Daial Lama to sign the agreement, and the Dalai Lama even sent a letter indicating his acceptance was also sent to Beijing in the form of a telegram on 24 October:
"The Tibet Local Government as well as the ecclesiastic and secular people unanimously support this agreement, and under the leadership of Chairman Mao and the Central People's Government, will actively support the People's Liberation Army in Tibet to consolidate national defence, drive out imperialist influences from Tibet and safeguard the unification of the territory and the sovereignty of the Motherland." -Telegram from Dalai Lama to Beijing on 24 Oct 1951.
I did not copied my statements about building universities and other modern technology from any source, and they are my own statements. Tibet has 5 universities and they were all established ONLY after they became part of China in 1951. That means under the Dalai Lama rule, there were NO universities in Tibet at all,
Source:List of universities and colleges in Tibet wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_and_colleges_in_Tibet
The Tibetan Flag is illegal, because Tibet is autonomous region of China, and not its own independent country. I mean, which country formally recognize Tibet as independent? I have shown that even Great Britain and Russia recognized China's suzerainty over Tibet, so when was Tibet ever independent? Does President Trump of USA recognize Tibet as Independent? Does Russian President Putin? Does German Chancellor Merkel? Does British PM Theresa May? I mean, you claim China's occupation of Tibet is illegal, then why aren't USA, Russia, UK, etc, bringing up the issue of Tibet, during all those UN summits and meetings?
You said the Tibetans get heavily discriminated by the Chinese government but how? I have shown that the population of Tibet has tripled from about 1 million in 1952 to about 3 million in 2014, with 90% of the population being Tibetans and only 8% Han Chinese. Its because Tibetans are exempted by the One-Child Policy (which only affect Han Chinese) and they can have as many children as they want. Tibetans enjoy special healthcare benefits and educational bursaries. For example, if Han Chinese require, say 600 points, to qualify for a university course, then Tibetans need only 400 points (easier) to qualify for the same course as Han Chinese. Tibetans also enjoy free education up to university and special tax exemptions that Han Chinese do not get to enjoy.
So how exactly are Tibetans discriminated? In Religion? Here is a video about a foreigner's experience in Lhasa, Tibet, and you can see that so many Tibetans are prostrating themselves in prayer. The guy has been to Tibet before 10 years ago, and he remarks upon how much Tibet has changed, being more touristy now.
Video:Welcome to Lhasa Tibet - Exploring the City (by Vafa Anderson) youtu.be/J-TfN56ETVM?t=301
I mean, if you really think that the 17th point agreement is illegal (and you believe you have enough evidence to prove your case) then why doesn't anyone directly confront the Chinese government about 17th point agreement then and bring China to court? Nobody stopping your countries from bringing up Tibet issue to the International Court of Justice for example. And in virtually every map of PRC drawn, Tibet is always included as part of China.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@acdragonrider During Unit 731, the Japanese soldiers and doctors conducted horrible experiments on Chinese prisoners. Men, women and children were subjected to live vivisection, often without anesthesia and usually ending with the death of the victim. Organs were removed, limbs were frozen and amputated to study blood loss, and even reattached to opposite sides of the body and these were conducted while the patients were alive because it was thought that the death of the subject would affect the result. Some unlucky prisoners had their stomachs surgically removed and the esophagus reattached to the intestines, just to see how long humans can survive without the stomach.
The sexual crimes in Unit 731 were the worst. Prisoners were infected with STDs like Syphilis, and forced at gunpoint to spread it to other prisoners through sex. Women were forcefully raped and impregnated, and they were vivisected at different stages of infection, so that internal and external organs could be observed as the disease progressed. Some Japanese soldiers even participated in the impregnation process and dissected unborn children they fathered with female prisoners.
Can you imagine if you are prisoner in Unit 731, having your stomach removed and your gullet attached to your intestine, just to see how long you can live? Or imagine being injected with STDs and then being forced at gunpoint to spread it? Why not simply inject all the prisoners, instead of forcing such humiliating acts upon them?
What did Chinese people do to deserve this? All Chinese people wanted to do was defend our lands, and protect our homes and loved ones from the invaders, but the Japanese invaded our lands, killed our men, raped our women and conducted inhumane experiments on our kids.
1
-
"It's just too bad it has to be the current thugs and thieves ruling with a strong arm at the moment. "
Although there were initial mistakes and it wasn't all smooth flowing, under CCP guidance, China's population growth doubled, our lifespans doubled, our life expectancy doubled, starvation and poverty fell and our literacy rates increased. China was once a dirt-poor country like India in the past, but according to World Bank, China’s poverty rate fell from 88% in 1981 to mere 6.5% in 2012. According to UNESCO, adult literacy rate of China increased from 65.5% in 1982 to a whopping 96.4% in 2015 growing at an average annual rate of 10.39%.
Life Expectancy at Birth in China, Europe, USA and India
Source: china-profile.com/data/fig_WPP2010_L0_Boths.htm
1
-
1
-
1
-
+Ryanator Changerang "Hong Kong's government was a fair and true democracy until Beijing began sending in their own agents to ruin it and take control."
Which agents from Beijing have "ruined" HK? In the end, Hong Kong elections are still held by people of HK so how exactly did China "ruin it and take control"?
"Taiwan is Chinese territory" Exactly! China has always maintained that Taiwan is Chinese territory so we are in agreement regarding that statement and China firmly opposes the independence of Taiwan (as mentioned many times in public statements)
"Hong Kong, Macau, and Taipei flourished under British, Portuguese, and Nationalist Chinese rule"
But the fact remains that cities in the mainland (like Shanghai, Beijing, etc) have long surpassed those states. Today, China is the world's 2nd largest economy and Taipei is no longer the economic power that it used to be. Its because HK, Macau and Taipei's systems don't work.
Here is a short 2 minute clip about the night view of 11 Chinese cities
Source: Beautiful Night View of China 2016 youtube.com/watch?v=G7ZRa-w9xyA
Otherwise, why is Chinese cities so much more powerful than those cities? Can you explain why?
1