Comments by "神州 Shenzhou" (@Shenzhou.) on "Hong Kong and China: Is 'one country, two systems' over? | DW News" video.

I do know that Hong Kong did NOT experience democracy under British colonial rule rule. No elections by Hong Kong were ever held, while it was British colony. Only after the Hong Kong handover to mainland China, were the first elections by Hong Kong ever held. So why people of Hong Kong still complain when they finally get to vote for their favorite leader in elections? Were any elections in Hong Kong ever held, prior to the handover to China?
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In the past, Hong Kong was a unique Chinese port city, a world finance center closest to mainland China, but today, Hong Kong has since fallen behind and been overtaken by rising mainland cities in the area like Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Ningbo-Zhoushan, and is facing similar levels of competition from mainland cities like Qingdao, Tianjin, Xiamen, Dalian, and so on. Sources: List of busiest container ports wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_container_ports List of busiest ports by cargo tonnage wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_ports_by_cargo_tonnage Shanghai in particular, has become global financial centre and transport hub, so its no wonder why some Hong Kong people feel that Hong Kong is losing its "uniqueness" as it has fallen behind other rising mainland cities.
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@peabase Can I ask which personal freedoms has Beijing imposed upon Hong Kong people then? Hong Kong has laws that would be considered illegal in the mainland (such as supporting Falun Dafa) so how exactly are their freedoms being affected then? So when mainland cities like Shanghai overtakes Hong Kong as global financial center, then what's Hong Kong going to do? Source: List of largest banks wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_banks
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@mfmf100 Many Hong Kong graduates also seek job opportunities in the mainland, and some pick up Mandarin in order to do business with the mainland. Mandarin Chinese is also the most spoken language in the world (by number of speakers) and is also the official language of Singapore and Taiwan too, so generally there is greater incentive to learn Mandarin over Cantonese. And you specifically said "traditions" so why can't I mention that Hong Kong people practice Chinese traditions too? And if Hong Kong have all those institutions, then why are they so resentful of mainland China? China is the only country in the world willing to tolerate multiple political systems within our nation, under the One Country, Two Systems Policy. No other country in the world is willing to have two different political systems existing within its borders.
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Those Umbrella protestors were mostly idealistic university undergrads, who've been raised in cloistered world of education, of textbook ideals and perfect political theories. They haven't even stepped out into the real working world, get a job, apply for housing, get married and settle down, yet these naive students somehow think they already know how to govern Hong Kong already? Look at the rest of the working adults of Hong Kong, sending the kids to school and going to work as per normal. They weren't protesting because they know Hong Kong's situation better than these idealistic undergrads.
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The Umbrella Protests were by naive Hong Kong university undergrads, who've been cloistered inside a world of education, of textbook ideals and perfect theories regarding democracy. These protestors haven't even step out into the real working world of adults, get a job, get an apartment, settle down and raise kids, yet these idealistic students already think they know how to govern Hong Kong?
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@mfmf100 Cantonese is also spoken in mainland like in Guangdong province too. And how exactly are Hong Kong culture and traditions different from the mainland? They celebrate Spring Festival (Chinese New Year) Dragonboat Festival, Lantern Festival and other Chinese festivals too isn't it?
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@dajaca2586 said: "democracy is declining around the world." So why is democracy declining around the world then? Why allow ordinary people to participate in voting? Ordinary people may not vote responsibly (they don't turn up to vote, or they submit blank votes) they may make decisions based on emotions ("I don't like immigrants so I vote for Britain to leave EU") instead of logic. Or they may simply lack enough political awareness to make informed decisions regarding the country's future. That's how Donald Trump (with zero political experience himself) was able to seduce votes from gullible Americans with false promises of making America great again. At least in mainland China's example, if people want to vote, they join the communist party (not easy feat, you'll need to be top 5% of your field or industry) and work their way up to President, while garnering votes from other politically savvy communist members. Its not perfect system and not easy, but it has produced great leaders like President Xi, who has 30-40 years of political experience.
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@J Doe What makes you think Chinese people are cloistered? Chinese people are free to travel overseas for work, study or play. I mean, every country in the world has heard of Chinese tourists, visiting their lands and stimulating their economies. Your Western schools and universities are positively flooded with international exchange students from China, studying the same topics as their peers. Chinese business and firms are growing more powerful (Huawei, Lenovo, Xiaomi, Oppo, ZTE, etc) and Chinese investors are buying up property and real estate in other countries. So why you think Chinese people are cloistered then? We make up 20% of the world's population after all.
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@J Doe More than any country, China has the world's most outbound tourists, which is why more and more countries are catering to Chinese tourists, offering tours in Mandarin, etc, to cash in on Chinese tourists. Even in education, your Western schools and universities are flooded with Chinese students, and many Chinese students compete with your local students for university spots, in examinations and also for jobs when they graduate. Source: China has world's most outbound tourists nationmultimedia.com/detail/travel/30355861 So what makes you think Chinese people are oppressed like you claim? Even in the Internet, Chinese language is the 2nd most common language in the Internet, only behind English at number one, so why you claim that Chinese people can't discuss things on the Internet? There are so many Chinese websites and forums where Chinese discuss issues so why you claim Chinese can't discuss issues on the Internet? Source: Top Ten Internet Languages (Chinese is 2nd) internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm Seriously, have you even stepped out onto the street (wherever you live) and grab a Chinese person in your area and talked to them? Why you think Chinese people are oppressed then?
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@J Doe So your business partner friend cried when President Xi became as powerful as Mao. But he is just one person and that was his/her view that's all. And how would you know many in China feel the same? Have you been to China yourself and ask many Chinese yourself? Then how would you know?
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@mfmf100 Which part of the "One country, Two systems” policy is the mainland not following? The Hong Kong people can enjoy democracy by electing their own leaders (Hong Kong's Chief Executive was voted in after receiving 777 votes from the 1,194-member Election Committee.) And all the mainland does is approve the candidate that's all. The mainland does not get to choose which candidate gets elected. So what's the problem here?
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@J Doe In the past, the port city of Hong Kong was once more advanced than the mainland cities. But today, Hong Kong has faltered behind mainland port cities like Shanghai, Shenzhen, Ningbo, Zhoushan, etc. Hong Kong is also facing increasing competition from rising mainland cities like Qingdao, Tianjin, Dalian, Xiamen, etc. So what makes you think CCP government is "brutal, abusive and oppressive" when mainland China is clearly prospering? Source: List of busiest container ports wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_container_ports List of busiest ports by cargo tonnage wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_ports_by_cargo_tonnage
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@J Doe "@神州 Shenzhou It's easy to tell how bad a leader is by their supporters." President Xi Jinping is among the most popular leaders in the world, both IN China and OUTSIDE China. According to the following source: Chinese President Xi Jinping had the highest approval rating, both at home and abroad. Xi earned a composite 8.7 rating (out of 10), beating Russian President Vladimir Putin (8.1) for the top spot. Both Putin and Xi had astonishingly high domestic approval ratings, with Xi at 9 out of 10 and Putin at 8.7 The World’s Most Popular Leader: China’s President Xi Source: thediplomat.com/2014/12/the-worlds-most-popular-leader-chinas-president-xi/ I mean, do the people of Hong Kong actually like their leaders at all? What has the Hong Kong Chief Executive even do for the people of Hong Kong? Why nobody knows who the Hong Kong Chief Executive is? But more and more people are knowing about Chinese President Xi Jinping?
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@J Doe What makes you think the mindset of Chinese of 5,000 years ago, would respect Hong Kong or Taiwan independence today? Did you read Chinese history before? The First Emperor of China, Qin Shihuangdi, unified China by conquering the other provinces (bloodily) and proclaiming himself emperor of Qin Dynasty China. And historically, Chinese emperors were always afraid of independent states breaking loose from China, so what makes you think a Chinese of 5000 years ago would simply let those states go? You don't even know Chinese history, yet presume to think Chinese people would let those territory go? You think "democracy" is somehow better? Then why historically, many countries and human societies choose to have political power concentrated in the hands of the few, instead of the many? For example, nobles (aristocracy) priests (theocracy) or kings and emperors (monarchies). Such political systems were commonplace historically, simply because they worked! The elite minority were oftentimes well-educated and politically savvy to make important decisions for the country, instead of the uneducated masses. I mean, why let the ordinary people decide what's best for the country? Why not let the people who know how to lead, lead?
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@J Doe "@神州 Shenzhou - Trump We'll be getting rid of him in 2020." That is exactly the major flaw of your American system. Your US presidents have to step down after their term is over (4-8 years) so they can only make short term plans for America's future at the most, instead of long term plans spanning, say 10 years or more. Whereas the Chinese government has put forth many 5-year plans, 10-year plans, 20-year plans, 30-year plans, etc to map out China's direction and future in 2020, 2030, 2040, 2050, etc, and to set specific goals for China to achieve. Some of these goals include (but are not limited to): -By 2020, China plans to eliminate poverty completely and establish moderately prosperous society. -By 2025, China plans to transform our manufacturing industry to incorporate high-end technology. -By 2030, China plans to be world leader in Artificial Intelligence -By 2035, China plans to be key innovative, scientific power and establish moderately socialist society. -By 2040, China plans to ban all fossil fuel powerplants and all non-electric vehicles for greener future. -By 2045, China plans to be world leading space nation, having established a space elevator. -By 2050, China plans to have surpassed the USA as global superpower, economically and militarily. Source: Xi Plans to Turn China Into a Leading Global Power by 2050 bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-17/xi-to-put-his-stamp-on-chinese-history-at-congress-party-opening By abolishing the presidential term limit, our leaders can remain in power long enough to see their plans for China bloom and come into fruition in the future. But US leaders can't make long term plans for America, because they have to step down when their term is over. Can't you see the big flaw in your system here? Why is China surging on ahead, while America is in decline? How are numerous 4-8 term US presidents going to compete with Chinese leaders of limitless terms?
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@J Doe China has 5000 years of history and is among the world's oldest 'continuous' civilization still alive today, whereas other great ancient civilizations like Mesopotamia, Rome and Egypt have since succumbed to history. And the CCP today is gearing towards ancient Chinese political system (like abolishing term limits for example) President Xi Jinping is like a Chinese emperor, surrounded by his court of ministers and officials, in the form of the Communist Politburo. I mean, China has a wealth of experience, in the form of political literature, governing manuals, military textbooks and whatnot, to help guide our leaders in governing the world's most populous country. And look at Hong Kong and Taiwan, they were traditionally part of Qing Dynasty China, so why can't People's Republic of China claim those territories then? I mean, the United Nations has recognized PRC as "the only legitimate representative of China".
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@mfmf100 About the CCP approving the HK candidate, that is clearly part of the Basic Hong Kong Law and the mainland reserves the right to appoint the HK candidate as per terms of the agreement. According to Hong Kong Basic Law Article 45 (香港基本法第四十五條) : "The Chief Executive of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall be selected by election or through consultations held locally and be appointed by the Central People's Government." Source: Hong Kong Basic Law Article 45 wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Basic_Law_Article_45 So the HK Chief Executive will be appointed by the Central People's Government (CCP) isn't it? Therefore, CCP is not violating the "two systems" policy. Otherwise, which part of Hong Kong law is CCP violating then, you tell me?
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@mfmf100 About lifetime leadership, look at Germany for example and Angela Merkel has been in office since 2005, serving as German Chancellor for over 10 years. Long-term leadership can result in long planning for countries (especially if leaders have the foresight to plan ahead) I mean, since China is doing so well under CCP dictatorship, then why is there a need to change then? Because Westerners say so?
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@mfmf100 Agreed that it is written that "the ultimate aim is the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage upon nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee in accordance with democratic procedures.” But it is also written that the Hong Kong Chief Executive has to be appointed by the Central People's Government, and therefore, CCP reserves the right to appoint HK's Chief Executive. So which part of the "two-systems" policy is CCP violating then, you tell me? How does PRC have "direct, complete" control when no one from mainland China can vote in Hong Kong elections?
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@mfmf100 About lifetime leadership, then what about a country like Singapore? Singapore has been ruled by authoritative single-party government (PAP) for its entire life as a nation! For over 50 years, the PAP governed Singapore with an iron fist, and Lee Kuan Yew was a tyrant who tolerated no political opposition to his rule. But under this benevolent leadership, Singapore grew from a small sleepy fishing village nation, into a prosperous economic country, with living standards surpassing many of its neighboring countries. All this, because the PAP had the foresight to plan long-term and implement long-term changes to Singapore. So why can't China follow our own path to success then? Must China adopt Western democracy, simply because Westerners say so?
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@mfmf100 That's your own problem with "democracy" then. Why have such a system where it is susceptible to outside influence? Wasn't US president Trump elected allegedly by Russian hacking? Why expose your country's own political decisions to foreign influence in the first place? That's all the more reason why China should stick to our own political system (internal election within the CCP) instead of exposing our political system to outside influence. And again, which Hong Kong Law did the CCP supposedly violate you tell me? The CCP is granted the right to appoint each Hong Kong Chief Executive (as pursuant to Hong Kong Basic Law Article 45) so the CCP is not violating any laws of the "two-system" policy isn't it?
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@peabase Mainland China will retain control over Hong Kong, so how exactly is China the biggest loser then?
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@desanipt In the past, Hong Kong was a world finance centre and thriving port city closest to mainland China, but today, it has since fallen behind and been overtaken by rising mainland cities like Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Ningbo-Zhoushan, and is facing increasing competition from upcoming mainland port cities like Qingdao, Tianjin, Xiamen, Dalian, and so on. No wonder why the people of Hong Kong fear being left behind. Sources: List of busiest container ports wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_container_ports List of busiest ports by cargo tonnage wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_ports_by_cargo_tonnage As you can see, mainland China would be hardly affected economically. If only Hong Kong was fully returned back to China, then Chinese government can help develop Hong Kong to catch up with other rising mainland port cities.
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@sids2766 The Chinese Communist Party is not perfect (then again, which government body is?) but despite its initial failures and setbacks, under its leadership, China's population doubled, our lifespans doubled, our literacy rates doubled and our poverty rates plummeted. China was once a dirt-poor, war-torn, starving country in the past, but today, China is world's 2nd largest economy, the manufacturing hub of the world, protected by world's largest land army, the People's Liberation Army, funded by world's 2nd largest military budget. Source: Life Expectancy at Birth in China, Europe, USA and India china-profile.com/data/fig_WPP2010_L0_Boths.htm And its all been achieved under single-party authoritarian CCP leadership! So what's wrong with letting the CCP guide our country into the future? China is no longer the weak, easily bullied nation we were once in the past, thanks to the CCP. Otherwise, can you prove me wrong? Why is the mainland surpassing even Hong Kong?
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@1943rfagan Communism did not kill those people, they starved to death because of Great Chinese Famine which was caused by bad weather conditions like flood and drought, causing destruction of crops and resulted in poor harvest and mass starvation. Even Mao Zedong can't possibly control the weather isn't it?
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