Comments by "神州 Shenzhou" (@Shenzhou.) on "Nuance"
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@richarde.halliburton8022 "神州 Shenzhou Thank you for your thoughtfyl reply to my comments"
I try not to resort to hurling personal insults against others for their views (unlike those who call me ultra-nationalist or communist shill), I try to argue with points brought up where possible.
You said: "China's "rise" post war with Japan would have been achieved much faster and with much less suffering had the Republic of China (Nationalist) forces prevailed against the Communists in 1949,"
So the question is why did Republic of China 🇹🇼 lose the mainland to People's Republic of China 🇨🇳 and had to flee to Formosa (Taiwan)? During the Chinese Civil War, the Nationalist Kuomintang had massive wealth (they taxed peasants heavily) they had superior weapons and superior numbers over the communists, yet they still lost the mainland to dirt-poor, heavily outnumbered, ill-equipped, starving Communist peasants and had to flee to Taiwan? This demonstrates KMT's gross incompetence in their right to rule the mainland, and solidifies the Communist's right to rule the mainland after 1949.
I mean, the KMT literally lost the mainland to a bunch of dirt-poor, starving communist peasant conscripts, then why should they deserve to rule the mainland? During the ROC (1912-1949) era, there was hyperinflation as KMT kept on printing money. There were also numerous famines during ROC era, such as 1920–1921 North China Famine, 1928–1930 Northern China Famine, 1936–1937 Sichuan-Gansu Famine, 1942–1943 Henan Famine and others.
So there is no guarantee that had the KMT succeeded over the Communists, they would have avoided the Great Chinese Famine, given their history of famines during ROC period.
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@augustuswoods4548 "This is why I'm not bothering to respond to your statement about Native Americans, since that is not at all the point."
You are the one who brought up the topic Native Americans here, yet when I elaborated on how their lands are still occupied today by non-Native Americans and Canadians, you decided not to respond further? That means that you're aware of the biased double standards the West has on China, but refuse to comment further on it, instead you rather point at China reclaiming Tibet (which was part of Chinese history since 800 years ago).
You foreigners can criticise China negatively, but when I as a Chinese, bring up China's positive achievements, suddenly, I'm the one spreading pure propaganda? China has made numerous achievements under the leadership of the Communist Party of China, why is my pointing them out propaganda, but you painting China negatively not?
Could you point out how my narrative is incomplete? Take Tibet for example, I've shown maps that Tibet was part of Chinese history since 800 years ago. I've pointed out that the 14th Dalai Lama is a CIA agent and that he received funding from CIA to train Tibetan guerrillas in separatist activities against the central government. I've even shown that the Tibetans themselves signed the Seventeen Point Agreement for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet (中央人民政府和西藏地方政府关于和平解放西藏办法的协议) in 1951, thus affirming Chinese sovereignty over Tibet.
So exactly which narrative am I missing out?
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@richarde.halliburton8022 You said: "Taiwan joined the other burgeoning democracies - South Korea and Japan, in an economic miracle of progress from the end of WWII"
Taiwan had been under authoritarian single-party KMT rule for more than half its life. For decades the KMT ruled Taiwan with iron fist and Chiang kai-shek was a dictator who jailed and executed dissidents and political rivals (whether real or perceived) in a period known as White Terror (白色恐怖) and imposed martial law on Taiwan for more than 38 years, which was qualified as "the longest imposition of martial law by a regime anywhere in the world" at that time.
Source: White Terror (Taiwan) wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan)
But under authoritarian single-party KMT rule, Taiwan actually flourished and prospered, in what's known as the Taiwan Miracle (台湾奇迹). Between 1952 – 1982, Taiwan's economic growth was on average 8.7%, and between 1983 – 1986 at 6.9%. Taiwan GDP grew by 360% between 1965 – 1986. The percentage of global exports was over 2% in 1986, over other recently industrialized countries, and the global industrial production output grew a further 680% between 1965 – 1986. And its all been achieved under KMT leadership.
Source: Taiwan Miracle wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Miracle
Only in the late 1990s, when democracy was introduced (because USA threatened to cut off weapons sales to Taiwan) did Taiwan's economic growth became more modest. Taiwan's economy has since stagnated, wages are stagnant, cost of living is rising, unemployment is rising and Taiwan graduates are leaving the island to seek employment opportunities on the mainland.
So in other words, Taiwan's massive economic miracle was achieved under authoritarian, single-party KMT rule, not because of democracy that Taiwan flourished. Look at the Taiwan economic miracle and it occurred under the authoritarian rule of Kuomintang. Under democratic multi-party system, Taiwan is struggling today.
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@richarde.halliburton8022 So according to you, it's collectivism and corruption that's responsible for the starvation during the GLF, then what makes you think ROC government isn't corrupt? Earlier, you even agreed that the Chiang regime was grossly corrupt and incompetent. Here are your own words: "神州 Shenzhou This is an area where we agree - that the Chiang regime was grossly corrupt and incompetent."
Yet now you magically sing the praise that KMT would have done a much better job at governing the mainland than the communists? How? You're using hypothetical scenarios without proofs, whereas I'm using KMT history of famines and incompetence to justify how KMT won't do a better job than the Communists.
The Kuomintang was so corrupt, that they received plenty of U.S military aid, but they pocketed some $750,000,000 worth of U.S military aid, until even the then US President Harry Truman made a remark about KMT corruption and wrote that "the Chiangs, the Kungs and the Soongs (were) all thieves."
Source: "President Truman wrote that "the Chiangs, the Kungs and the Soongs (were) all thieves" having stolen some $750 million dollars of US funds" voltairenet.org/article177063.html
How does your argument that KMT would do a better job than the communists even hold water, when it's full of holes?
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@augustuswoods4548 Previously, while Tibet was under Dalai Lama rule, Tibet was a brutal theocracy, where 95% of the population were slaves and the remaining 5% elites were slave owners. Tibetan mountainous soil is infertile, rainfall is scarce in the Himalayas, so the slaves had to work hard to feed the Tibetan population. Starvation was commonplace and theft of food was punished by torture, amputation and even skinning. There's this Tibetan drum called damaru that's made from human skulls, a drumskin made of human skin and drumstick made of human bone. The Dalai Lama was overly worshipped and his followers fought for the right to consume his saliva, his urine and even his feces, because he was considered a divine vessel.
After Tibet returned back to China, Chinese workers began rapidly modernising Tibet, building roads, railways, streetlamps, running water, gas and electricity as well as introducing modern amenities like cars, computers, telephone cables, smartphones, the Internet, WiFi, online shopping (from Taobao) and so on. Under CPC, the first Tibetan colleges opened in Lhasa, offering degrees in both Tibetan and Mandarin Chinese languages. Hydroelectric powerstations were built by Chinese to supply Tibetan homes with electricity.
Source: List of universities and colleges in Tibet wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_and_colleges_in_Tibet
Source: List of major power stations in the Tibet Autonomous Region wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_power_stations_in_the_Tibet_Autonomous_Region
Chinese workers built the Qinghai-Lhasa railway (world's highest elevation railway) through dangerous mountainous terrain and low oxygen environments, to connect the normally isolated Tibet with the rest of the world. Tibet can now import food from the mainland to feed its population, and Tibet's population has tripled from 1 million in 1950s to over 3 million people today. A thriving tourist industry has even sprung up in Tibet.
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@augustuswoods4548 In the 1950s, yes majority of China consists peasants, because the Nationalist Kuomintang transfered China's gold reserves from Shanghai to Taipei, fleeing to Taiwan and leaving the mainland in ruins after the Civil War.
After the communists came to power, Chairman Mao Zedong seized the lands from the corrupt, rich landlords and redistributed it to the dirt-poor peasants. For the first time, peasants were allowed to own lands, they could receive a proper education at school and lift themselves over poverty. Our lifespans and life expectancy improved under Chairman Mao's leadership.
Source: China Life Expectancy 1950-2021 macrotrends.net/countries/CHN/china/life-expectancy
And Chairman Mao did not kill those people, they starved to death because of Great Chinese Famine which was caused by bad weather conditions like flood and drought, causing destruction of crops and resulted in poor harvest and mass starvation. Even Chairman Mao can't possibly control the weather isn't it? And even if he could, he'll wish for fair weather and bountiful harvests, because he wants to make China strong enough to resist foreign imperialism.
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@richarde.halliburton8022 The Roman Empire is no more, and it's been fractured into individual countries, whereas China has always been best ruled under the authoritarian leadership of emperors and the imperial court. Our history proves this, even under "democracy" during Republic of China 🇹🇼 (1912-1949), China was a weak, dirt-poor, war-torn, starving country. But today, under the authoritarian rule of the CPC, the People's Republic of China 🇨🇳 (1949~) has since transformed into world's 2nd largest economy, the world's factory (Made in China) having world's 2nd highest R&D spending, protected by world's largest land army, the People's Liberation Army, funded by world's 2nd highest military expenditure.
And it's all been achieved under communist party leadership, despite Western anti-Communist propaganda constantly denouncing China's success all along.
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Narglar Wing Under Chairman Mao and the communists, China's population doubled, our literacy rates doubled, our lifespans doubled, our life expectancies doubled. Under the communists, women in China were finally granted equal access to education ("Women hold up half the sky" 妇女能顶半边天 by Chairman Mao) women peasant and workers featured prominently in Cultural Revolution posters.
Chairman Mao's anti-pest targeted the grain-eating pests. Even without pest-eating sparrows, Chinese farmers reared insects-eating chickens and ducks, our fields had insect-eating frogs and fish. It was the bad weather conditions like flood and drought, causing destruction of crops and resulted in poor harvest and mass starvation, that plunged China into the Great Chinese Famine.
In 1958, the Yellow River flooded in China that coincided with the onset of the Great Leap Forward, affected 741,000 people, submerged over half a million acres of crops (3.04 million mu), and destroyed over 300,000 houses in 1708 villages.
Source: 1958 Yellow River flood wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Yellow_River_flood
Even Chairman Mao can't possibly control the weather isn't it? And even if he could, he'll wish for fair weather and bountiful harvests, because he wants to make China strong enough to resist foreign imperialism.
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