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神州 Shenzhou
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Comments by "神州 Shenzhou" (@Shenzhou.) on "China blames US for massive Hong Kong protest" video.

Singapore citizens can't even protest against their own government themselves.
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@Grim Reefer Singapore is a dictatorship too.
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Trump blames China for America's woes.
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Hong Kong had been under authoritarian British colonial rule for 156 years and did not enjoy democracy under British rule. Only during period of Hong Kong handover to mainland China, did Hong Kong people finally get to vote in elections for the first time.
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Throughout history, human societies have always gravitated towards authoritarianism and oligarchies. Political power was concentrated not in the hands of many, but in the hands of the few, such as nobles (aristocracy) priests (theocracy) or kings and emperors (monarchy) or other forms. Such political systems were popular because they were stable and they worked! The elites were oftentimes well-educated and politically savvy to make decisions regarding the country's future, while the ignorant masses were kept far away from politics. Whereas, democracy has long history of failure. Athenian democracy failed, Spartan democracy failed, Greek democracy failed, even Republic of Rome fell. Those proto-democracies failed and democracy wasn't popular elsewhere outside of Greece. Even modern Western democracy has a history of 100-200 years and it doesn't necessarily mean that it will be successful in future.
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China has Hypersonic missiles as well, like the DF-ZF which tested 7 times already, and travelling at speeds between 4,000 and 7,000 miles per hour, (or between Mach 5 and Mach 10) and can hit anywhere in the world in just 1 hour. Souce: China Successfully Tests Hypersonic Missile freebeacon.com/national-security/china-successfully-tests-hypersonic-missile/ The hypersonic missile is so fast that it can penetrate U.S anti-missile defenses and even interception missiles are too slow to catch up to the hypersonic glider's great velocity. Furthermore, the USA has to first detect the launch and scramble its ant-missile defenses within 1 hour of its launch in order to identify its target and intercept, making this missile very difficult to defend against.
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@Daylightmotion Education? China has is a top destination for international students and as of 2013, China is the most popular country in Asia for international students, and ranks 3rd overall among countries. Source: China ranks 3rd among countries that host the most international students, usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/articles/2013/10/08/explore-the-worlds-top-universities
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@Daylightmotion Because it is illegal to protest in Singapore. According to Human Rights Watch: Singapore hrw.org/asia/singapore Singapore’s political environment is stifling. Citizens face severe restrictions on their basic rights to freedom of expression, association, and peaceful assembly through overly broad criminal laws and regulations. In 2017, the country tightened the already strict limits on public assemblies contained in the Public Order Act, which requires police permits for any “cause-related” assembly outside the closely monitored “Speakers’ Corner.” Now doesn't that sound exactly like China?
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@Daylightmotion Singapore has been ruled by authoritarian single-party PAP for its entire life as a nation! For over 50 years, the PAP ruled Singapore with iron fist, and Lee Kuan Yew (Singapore's founder) was a dictator who jailed or exiled dissidents to his rule. Likewise, China has been ruled by authoritarian single party CCP for 70 years. So how are our political systems any different?
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@gabrielmataleo4573 Independence is not just snapping your fingers and Hong Kong get granted independence just like that. Before independence, Singapore had no army of its own, and when British troops withdrew from Singapore, they had to scramble to build up their defenses and establish a military budget and a defence force. For that, they implemented National Service where all young men of certain age get conscripted into the army for 2 and half years, which was compulsory and unpopular among the people. Furthermore, they had less young men entering in the workforce for 2 years as a result of of this forced conscription. So how can you apply Singapore's example to Hong Kong? Hong Kong has no army and currently enjoys the mainland People's Liberation Army (world's largest land army) protection, since it is part of China. If Hong Kong becomes independent, they will need to establish military budget and implement conscription of their own, so young men will be forced to join the HK army. Will young Hong Kong men want that? Being forced into conscription? And HK workforce will have less men during in the meantime. Furthermore the need for defence budget means Hong Kong taxpayer need to pay more money for defence. Hong Kong's economy is currently in a slump, so will it be able to take such a hit?
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@shauniek " 神州 Shenzhou Maybe they should just invest in solar and wind," Solar and Wind energy require plenty of land to operate, and land is something that Hong Kong lacks. Mainland China has plenty of space, so it can afford to have largest solar farm and wind farms. Video: China's first 100MW solar power plant put into operation youtube.com/watch?v=K2A7Xw_LHEQ
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@gabrielmataleo4573 You mentioned earlier that Hong Kong have 2x the land of Singapore. But in terms of natural resources, Hong Kong doesn't have anything, just like Singapore. Singapore has the benefit of its strategic location, between the East and the West, and at the tip of Malaysia, so many ships pass by its waters, so it developed rapidly as port city, since its neighbors, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, and others in the vicinity didn't have excellent ports like the Port of Singapore. Singapore is lucky because of its location. But while Hong Kong is port city too, it is surrounded by other port cities. Hong Kong used to be global financial hub and busiest port city next to mainland China, however, it has since fallen behind mainland cities like Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Ningbo, etc, and is facing increasing competition from rising mainland port cities like Qingdao, Tianjin, Xiamen, Dalian, etc. It's no wonder why the people of Hong Kong feel as though they being left behind. List of busiest container ports wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_container_ports List of busiest ports by cargo tonnage wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_ports_by_cargo_tonnage
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@gabrielmataleo4573 Could you perhaps introduce these "solutions"? Because all I've been hearing about you so far seems to be "Hong Kong still have factories, Hong Kong have many world class facilities, etc" yet "Hong Kong are protesting, complaining, etc." Protesting and criticizing won't help Hong Kong. Solutions and snswers will.
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@Closeoutracer "Mao of China murdered 70 Million of his own countrymen between 1946-1960" China's population in 1950 was 544,112,923, and by 1960, China's population had soared to 644,450,173, (having increased by 100,337,250) So you're saying China's population fell by 70 million, yet the entire population actually increased by 100 million? Source: populationpyramid.net/china/1950/ Where did you get such exaggerated death toll figures?
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@urbanistgod Politics should be about doing what's right, not what's popular. Sometimes, what's popular, may not be what's right and what's right may not be what's popular. Democracy is only doing what's popular, not necessarily what's right.
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Hong Kong Policemen reported some 240,000 protestors on the streets. But the "organizers" behind the protests purposely inflated the figures to more than a million.
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If you look at history, many human societies gravitated towards authoritarianism and oligarchies. Political power is held not in the hands of many, but in the hands of the few elites, like nobles (aristocracy), priests (theocracy) or kings and emperors (monarchy) or other authoritarian forms. Such political systems were popular, because they were stable and they worked! The elites were oftentimes well-educated and politically aware to make important decisions regarding the country's future, while the ignorant, uneducated masses were kept away from politics. Democracy has long history of failure. Athenian democracy failed, Spartan democracy failed, Greek democracy failed, even Republic of Rome fell. These proto-democracies did not succeed and democracy was never popular outside of Greece in the ancient times. Modern Western democracy has a history of 100-200 years so it doesn't necessarily mean it will be successful in future.
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Hong Kong is dependent on mainland China for electricity and Hong Kong imports 23% of its total electricity needs from the mainland's electrical grid. Source: Wikipedia: Electricity sector in Hong Kong: Interconnection with China wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Hong_Kong#Interconnection_with_China
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@urbanistgod Aztec Empire, Inca Empire, Indian Empire, Achaemenid Empire, Akkadian Empire, Babylonian Empire, Byzantine Empire, Egyptian Empire, Chinese Empire, British Monarchy, French Monarchy, etc, Most of history has been under authoritarian rule, so what makes you think "democracy" is the best system, when it has long history of failure and is unpopular outside of Greece?
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@urbanistgod China has always been under authoritarian rule and it worked for 5000 years of Chinese history. China has access to a wealth of knowledge in the form of political literature, military textbooks, governing manuals, etc, on how to govern the world's most populous country, and authoritarianism it worked for China. An authoritarian dictatorship can implement massive plans like building walls and monuments, transitioning the economy, because there is the option to just bulldoze the opposition.
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It all started because during 19th century, the British wanted to continue drinking Chinese tea, but China did not want what the West had to offer, so Britain waged two bloody wars with China and force China to buy opium from them, which we didn't want because it made us sick and was poisoning our people. Port cities like Shanghai were forced open to act as drug distribution hubs to pump the addiction throughout rest of China, and Hong Kong was taken and made into British colony. When Britain renounced ownership over its former colonies, Hong Kong wasn't even fully returned back to China.
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@gabrielmataleo4573 About establishing a HK army, where will Hong Kong obtain its tanks, fighter jets and ships? Singapore purchased its military hardware from USA (and Malaysia doesn't mind) but I highly doubt mainland China will tolerate Hong Kong purchasing weapons from USA. And if Hong Kong buys weapons from mainland China, it will be at susceptible to mainland influence all the same, so getting weapons is another factor to consider here.
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@gabrielmataleo4573 Just because you can criticize your government, doesn't necessarily mean Hong Kong will get better with criticism. Hong Kong needs solutions to its problems, not more criticism of its policies. How do you expect to get things done if all Hong Kong people do is protest and protest? In Singapore, protest is forbidden so that's why Singapore government can concentrate on plans to develop Singapore. Take mainland China for example, China has pollution problems because of over reliance on coal power, so China built world's largest hydroelectric powerstation the Three Gorges Dam, to supply China with green energy to power our growth. But during the construction, there were many opposition to the project by environmentalists, ecologists, archaeologists, villagers need relocation, etc, but because Chinese government can just bulldoze the opposition and push ahead with the project. Had China been a democracy, it would be bogged down with delays, lobbyists, protestors, and it might even be cancelled. Video: The Largest Dam in The World youtube.com/watch?v=b8cCsUBYSkw
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@gabrielmataleo4573 So Hong Konger doesn't like to walk under the sun in Hong Kong's hot climate? Then what about Singapore then, which is hot all year round? Like I said earlier, if everyone is only complaining, then who's the one coming up with solutions? Hong Kong government urgently needs solutions and answers to Hong Kong's woes, but if all the people do is protest and complain, then who's going to fix those problems? China has many problems too, but at least the government is working to fix them. China was once dirt-poor, war-torn, starving country similar to India (world's largest democracy) in the past and while Chinese government is not perfect (then again, which government body is?) but despite its initial failures and setbacks, under its leadership, China's population doubled, our lifespans doubled, our literacy rates doubled and our poverty rates plummeted. This graph shows life expectancies across China, India, Europe and USA Life Expectancy at Birth in China, Europe, USA and India china-profile.com/data/fig_WPP2010_L0_Boths.htm So it shows that the government is fixing problems, so isn't that what Hong Kong government needs? Solutions, not more complaints?
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@gabrielmataleo4573 Did you actually read the HK extradition bill? The HK government says the original version has been amended to protect human rights and ensure suspects receive a fair hearing and aren’t extradited for political offenses. Source: washingtonpost.com/business/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-extradition-bill-rocking-hong-kong/2019/06/11/12a7907c-8c26-11e9-b6f4-033356502dce So what are the Hong Kong people protesting about then?
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@gabrielmataleo4573 "China have a consistent record in Hong Kong history of making fake record in order to extradite political opponents. ( information is available in some Hong Kong textbook)" Why don't you show the Hong Kong textbook then? Under current HK extradition laws, mainland China is unable to extradite people from Hong Kong (that's why this bill is being passed by HK) so where is your evidence of mainland making fake record? Taiwan Government have already shown great objection to this bill, but that does not mean Hong Kong cannot choose to push ahead with the extradition bill isn't it? Hong Kong government is not the Taiwan government, so why bring Taiwan into this issue? I do understand that it all started because some Hong Konger flew to Taiwan with his pregnant girlfriend and murdered her and gruesomely stuff her body into suitcase in Taiwan, while he flew back to Hong Kong. The Hong Kong government only wants to cover up this loophole that exists in its extradition treaty that's all.
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Hong Kong was once global financial hub and busiest port city, but it has since fallen behind other mainland port cities like Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangdong, Ningbo, and is facing competition from other rising port cities like Qingdao, Tianjin, Dalian, Xiamen, etc. No wonder why Hong Kong people fear they'll be left behind. Source: List of busiest container ports wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_container_ports List of busiest ports by cargo tonnage wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_ports_by_cargo_tonnage
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@Wolfreign Valenford Trump going to build a wall at the US-Mexico border.
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@urbanistgod Why do you allow ordinary people to participate in important decisions regarding the country's future? Ordinary people may not vote responsibly (they refuse to turn up to vote) or they base their decision on emotions (I don't like foreigners, so I vote for Britain to leave the EU) or they may simply lack the political awareness of their country's situation, or they are susceptible to fake news and foreign influences. That's how Trump was able to prey on gullible Americans votes with false promises of making America great again and come to power, even when he has zero political experience. Whereas in China, if you want to participate in politics, you must commit your life to politics and join the communist party (not easy, you must be top 5% of your industry) and slowly work your way to the top by garnering votes from other politically savvy members. It's not an easy process and its not perfect, but it has produced leaders like President Xi Jinping, who has 30-40 years of political experience. That's why Chinese people feel he is qualified to lead our country of 1.4 billion.
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@urbanistgod Look at history and how many countries had kings and emperors, over democracy?
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@urbanistgod China has 5000 years of history and is among the world's oldest 'continuous' civilization still alive today, whereas "democratic" Republic of Rome eventually fell. Democracy wasn't popular outside of Greece, and China had seen the rise and fall of many empires and survived violent course of history. China has always been authoritarian (and we still are) so why can't China continue authoritarianism?
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@perrodehont5109 I'm afraid you're mistaken. I wrote (I don't like foreigners, so I vote for Britain to leave the EU) was meant to represent British citizens voting on emotions not logic, and doesn't represent my personal view. My stance is that political power should be concentrated in the hands of the elites, not the masses and keep the masses away from politics, please!
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@urbanistgod I'm trying to prove, that human history is full of dictatorships, not democracy. History has shown many human societies gravitate towards dictatorships, and history is the best teacher is it not?
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NOYDB Who says YouTube is prohibited in China? Nobody will arrest you if you log on to YT while in China.
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@urbanistgod But like I said, ordinary people may not be political aware, they don't know the country's political situations unlike the elites, or they may make decisions base on emotions not logic. Why entrust your country's future in their hands?
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@urbanistgod "Government should stay away from people’s lives." Consider this question: Who is more qualified to lead the country? Government or People? If you choose people then why have a government then?
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@urbanistgod You have consistently failed to show why democracy is the best system. Your criteria are based on your emotions and your own personal opinion, not on logic, and ignoring historical evidence and whatnot.
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@dhk1126 Those countries did not collapse, they transition into the next dynasty (which is also authoritarian) And South Korean Dictator Park Chung-hee, transformed S. Korea from dirt-poor country (with GDP lower than some Sub-Sahara countries) into an Asian power today, so what's wrong with dictatorship?
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@dhk1126 Every great ancient civilization needed some sort of censorship. China was the very first secret police state, with the Jinyiwei 锦衣卫 "Embroidered Uniform Guard" of Ming Dynasty China in 14th century, serving the Ming Emperor. China also had the Imperial Censorate 御史台 which were "the eyes and ears" of the emperor and checked administrators at each level to prevent corruption and malfeasance. Even Roman Empire had their own Imperial Censors, and the Ottoman empire had the Janissaries so like I said every civilization needs some form of censorship in order to maintain public order, and history has shown this to be true. Then why can't China maintain some censorship when it has worked for China before?
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NOYDB According to your Websites blocked in mainland China those sites are merely blocked, but it doesn't mean that they are banned in China.
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@srivthefour7468 Look at history and there are no surviving examples of democracies (Athens, Sparta, Greek, Rome, etc) that have been successful, so why do you think democracy (or republic) will be successful? I've stressed this point so many times, but you people just seem to ignore it is all.
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@lcm0112 "神州 Shenzhou China doesn't have 5000 years of history." China has 5000 years of history and is among the world's oldest 'continuous' civilization still alive today, whereas other great ancient civilizations like Mesopotamia, Rome and Egypt have since succumbed to history. Ancient Chinese nobility wore luxurious silk clothing since 4th millennium BCE, while the rest of the world wore mostly loincloths and "bedsheets" called togas. Silk was much prized by rest of the world, so much that a lucrative trade route had been set up and named in honor of the precious material. Along the Silk Road, came precious Chinese luxury goods like silk, tea, paper, gunpowder, porcelain (precious china) that were in great demand throughout ancient world.
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@urbanistgod Let's consider the following scenario: China has heavy pollution because of our over-reliance on coal power (which produce smog) so China is making the switch to green energy, by building world's largest hydroelectric powerstation, the Three Gorges Dam to supply China with renewable energy to fuel our growth. Video: The Largest Dam in The World youtube.com/watch?v=b8cCsUBYSkw But during its construction, there were many opposition from ecologists, environmentalists, archaeologists, villagers need relocation, but because the government can just bulldoze the opposition and push ahead with the project, the construction gets completed on time, and China gets to reap the benefits. Had China been a democracy, the whole project would be bogged down in protests, lobbyists, dissidents, and all manner of delays, and it might even get cancelled instead. So doesn't authoritarian work, because you can bulldoze the opposition and push ahead with projects?
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@urbanistgod What makes you think Chinese people are oppressed? Chinese people are free to travel overseas for work, study or play. I mean, Everyone in the world has heard of Chinese tourists visiting your countries and spending money on your economies. Your Western schools and universities are positively flooded with Chinese international students, studying the same topics as their peers. Chinese companies like Huawei, Xiaomi, ZTE, Lenovo, Oppo, etc, are expanding overseas, and Chinese investors are buying up property in your countries. Source: China has world's most outbound tourists nationmultimedia.com/detail/travel/30355861 So what makes you think Chinese people are oppressed? Chinese people can be found virtually anywhere in the globe today, since we make up 20% of world's population after all. Go to your neighborhood and see how many Chinese nationals you can spot. Or go to your local university and ask the local students how they feel about the "Chinese competition"
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@urbanistgod Besides world's largest dam, China also dominates solar power and the current largest photovoltaic power station in the world is the 850 MW Longyangxia Dam Solar Park, in Qinghai, China. China also built world's largest floating solar farm in Huainan City, Anhui province, East China. Video: World's largest floating solar farm in E China youtube.com/watch?v=qKpYH5SYUeo It shows that authoritarian governments have the power ignore the opposition and just push ahead with projects. You said in democracy things get done, but it is oftentimes a costly process, mired in protests, lobbyists, opposition, dissidents, and other troublemakers that just drag the country down and waste resources.
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@urbanistgod As far as I know, China is world's largest internet population by number of users and Chinese language is the 2nd most common Internet language just behind English. So there are so many websites in Chinese language that people in China can access, so again, how are Chinese oppressed on the Internet? Top Ten Languages Used in the Web https://internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm
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@urbanistgod Chinese can still use VPN to access those website while in China, so what's the problem? Besides hydro electric and solar power, China also dominates in wind power and Gansu Wind Farm in China is world's largest land wind farm and we are also investing in offshore wind farms. Video: China's offshore wind sector blows into high gear youtube.com/watch?v=M5j2Dr0kPhc I've already talked about censorship previously. Every major civilization needs censorship, the Romans had the Imperial Censors, the Ottomans had Jannissaries, and likewise, China was the first secret police state with the Jinyiwei 锦衣卫 "Embroidered Uniform Guard" of Ming Dynasty. And like I keep saying, virtually all the ancient countries adopted authoritarianism or oligarchy in their countries, so why can't China do the same, since we have always been under authoritarian rule (back then and now)?
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@urbanistgod Besides dominating in green energy, China sold the most Plug-in Electric Vehicle (PEVs) in 2018, at 2,243 units as compared to Europe's 1,346 units and United states with 1,126 units. Source: Top PEV global markets stock wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Top_PEV_global_markets_stock_2017_final_with_California.png China is also world's largest electric bus market, dominating 99% of the world's electric bus market. China is also the global leader in the electrification of other transport modes, with more than 200 million electric two-wheelers, and 3 to 4 million low-speed electric vehicles (LSEVs). This is because the government is authoritarian, so it can push for large scale implementation of green energy and electric vehicles, whereas in a well-established fossil fuel industry like USA, the big US oil companies can oppose implementation of green energy vehicles and that's why electric vehicles aren't as prevalent in the West as in China. Because of Source: New energy vehicles in China wikipedia.org/wiki/New_energy_vehicles_in_China
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@urbanistgod Who says you're not supposed to use VPN? So many foreign companies come to China and set up shop here, and they require access to Western websites to operate. So the government grants them VPN license, so how is VPN illegal? And I have already given you the reply that ancient civilizations had censorship (Roman censors, Chinese embroidered uniform guard) and all you done is dismissed them that's all? You don't even bother to address all my historical points about empires, kings and emperors and censors, about ordinary citizens voting, so what exactly have you proved? Why wasn't democracy popular outside of Greece during ancient times?
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@urbanistgod Besides electric vehicles, China is also home to world's largest high-speed railway network, dwarfing even Japan's Shinkansen hi-speed rail. Our high-speed trains are world-class, the world's fastest and yet the journeys are very smooth and pleasant. Passengers have experimented balancing objects like coins, stationery, smartphones, on their edges near the windows of trains travelling at 350 kph, and the objects have remained undisturbed (even water surfaces remain still) for long periods. Here is one such video: Video: Watch how long coin can balance on high-speed train traveling at 350 kph youtube.com/watch?v=fumYdO9XknE Before the advent of high-speed rail, during Spring Festival (Chinese New Year) people in China would return to our home provinces to celebrate the New Year with our families and the journey home would often take several days by conventional rail. But since high-speed rail was introduced to China, commuting times have been reduced from days to mere hours.
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@urbanistgod I have discussed my stance as thoroughly as possible already and you have dismissed virtually every point I brought up: -Ordinary citizens can't be trusted to vote properly, they may make decisions based on emotions, not logic. Or they lack political awareness of their countries situation. -Political power should be in the hands of elites (nobles, priests, etc) because they are politically aware of the country's situation. -History is full of authoritarianism, Aztec Empire, Inca Empire, Indian Empire, Achaemenid Empire, Akkadian Empire, Babylonian Empire, Byzantine Empire, Egyptian Empire, Chinese Empire, British Monarchy, French Monarchy, -Democracy has a long history of failure (Athenian, Spartan, Greek, Roman) and democracy was never popular outside of Greece. -Modern Western democracy has only 100-200 years of history, so it doesn't necessarily mean it will be successful -Chinese people aren't oppressed, Chinese tourists, students, companies and investors can be found all over the globe. -Chinese Internet is the world's largest internet and there are many websites in Chinese. -Censorship worked for great ancient civilization, so why can't we apply censorship today? -Besides, Chinese can still use VPN to access Western websites so what's your point? I have literally refuted all your points and argued my case several times already isn't it? But you just keep on dismissing my points?
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NOYDB Tell you what, if Google is blocked in China, then just use Bing or Yahoo then. What's the big deal? Why make mountain out of a molehill?
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NOYDB Youtube is blocked by not banned, so what's your point? Just use VPN like I said.
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@dhk1126 Maybe China block Youtube so as to drum up business for the VPN companies?
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@urbanistgod "why people can’t access to the entire internet?" How do you even define the entire internet? You mean access the darknet is that it? Because I clearly proven that with VPN, Chinese people can access the entire Internet so what's your problem? Your point has been refuted by the simple fact that Chinese people can use VPN. Even so, you think Chinese people aren't travelling outside of China and going to Hong Kong to use the Internet there or some other countries' Internet?
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@urbanistgod Your entire paragraph is a just you repeating back and forth several times in order to create a wall of text and make it seem like a debate (when you are not even defining your points properly) And like I said, you just ignored all the historical aspect, the empires, the kings, the emperors, and pretend like they never existed. And I even shown that hardly any country uses democracy except for Greece, and it was never popular elsewhere.
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@urbanistgod Democracy was literally forced onto other countries by foreign powers. British colonies like India, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc, were forced to take on democracy by British colonials. as were America, Canada, Australia, etc. The USA took democracy further during Korean War, Vietnam War, etc. Even in 21st century, the USA is bombing Middle Eastern countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc, and cutting those countries "heads" (Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, etc) and then installing their own US puppet governments in place. So what makes you think these countries willing accepted democracy then? And like I said, what do you mean "why people can’t access to the entire internet?" Why don't you define the "entire internet"? I mean why don't people access the darknet, the hidden underbelly of the Internet used for clandestine purposes? And I have already proven that Chinese people can still use VPN, so your point has literally been refuted already.
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@urbanistgod Once again, Politics should be about doing what's right, not necessary what's popular. Sometimes, the popular thing may not be right and the right thing may not be popular. Democracy is only doing what's popular not necessarily what's right. I mean, people voting for what they want, may not be what's right for the country. Look at the British people voting to leave EU (because that's what they WANT, but not necessarily what's right for the country)
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@urbanistgod Now, what is this new term? REGULAR Internet? You keep on coming up with these terms and leave them vague so how am I suppose to interpret it? The Chinese REGULAR Internet consists of accessing Chinese websites like Baidu, Youku, Weibo, etc, that make use of Chinese language interface, because this is the REGULAR Internet for China. So what makes you think Chinese people can't access REGULAR Internet for ourselves? And like I said, if Chinese want to access other websites, we can always use VPN, so your point has already been refuted so many times already.
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@urbanistgod "In a democracy there’s a potential for the government to do something right AND do something that is what people want." Your point makes no sense. I can also make the claim that in an authoritarian government, there's a potential for the government to do something right AND do something that is what people want too. For example, China switching from fossil fuels to green energy is something that is right and also what people want (unless they want to continue fossil fuels)
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@urbanistgod Authoritarian governments can also choose to change policies, and if the leader isn't competent, he/she will eventually be overthrown. I mean China's 5000 history has many emperors, some benevolent and some tyrannical, and yet the dynasties change with the times, old emperors eventually pass on to their sons, and so on, so I can also make the claim that sooner or later, it will be changed. Therefore, what's the difference between you're point and mine? About the Internet again? Firstly, why do you claim censorship is a problem? Apparently, its not a problem in China, and many people in China go about their daily lives with censorship, so how is it a problem then? You think you are inflating the problem, but really the only problem seems to be you yourself. And I have already shown that Chinese people can use VPN to access Western websites many, many times, so again, what's the problem? You are the problem that's what, with your making a big hullabaloo out of a supposed problem, when Chinese people can simply use VPN to solve it. Or just travel outside of China, or go to Hong Kong, if we want to access the REGULAR internet that other countries use. What's the big deal?
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@urbanistgod Google (which bought YouTube) choose to leave China's market of its own accord, after failing to capture a significant portion of China's market to Chinese competitor Baidu. According to Forbes: Google's market share in China climbed from 15% (mid-2006) to 31% (2010) but Baidu's market share rose from 47% (mid-2006) to 64% (2010) which is huge leade Source: Forbes: Why Google Is Quitting China forbes.com/2010/01/15/baidu-china-search-intelligent-technology-google.html Baidu also offered several attractive packages and advanced features which appealed to Chinese, over Google, so in the end, Google chose to withdraw of its own accord. After failing to win over China's majority market share from Baidu.
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@urbanistgod Then you might as well claim "Why don't everyone have access to food? Or why don't all 1.4 billion people in China use the internet, instead of 700 million? People still go about living their lives, with or without censorship, with or without VPN, so what's the problem? What laws in China restrict the use of VPN?
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@dhk1126 "People in democracy vote for their own benefits. Voting for a president is not about picking a person who is the most handsome or beautiful, but about picking a person who represents their won rights and needs." That's why its a popularity contest. Why was people like Donald Trump voted into power then?
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@urbanistgod Aren't you the one constantly repeating yourself about censorship? I have already shown that people in China can use VPN to access Western websites, so what's the problem then?
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@srivthefour7468 Therefore, in this age of 8 billion "connected" people, censorship is ever more important, wouldn't you agree? Also, what makes you think the ordinary people know how to govern themselves? Consider this question: Which is more qualified to lead the country? The People or The Government? If you selected The People, then why do countries need a government then?
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@reymiguelperez6643 "How many authoritarian or communist country in the world right now?...So democracy being less popular in your point is invalid." I answered this earlier: "Democracy was literally forced onto other countries by foreign powers. British colonies like India, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc, were forced to take on democracy by British colonials. as were America, Canada, Australia, etc. The USA took democracy further during Korean War, Vietnam War, etc. Even in 21st century, the USA is bombing Middle Eastern countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc, and cutting those countries "heads" (Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, etc) and then installing their own US puppet governments in place." So what makes you think these countries willing accepted democracy then?
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@okisdr "How many of his own people did Mao kill?" It was Chinese Civil War, so of course Chinese killed Chinese. Just like in American Civil War, Americans killed Americans. Or Koreans killed Koreans in Korean war. Or Vietnam War. Or any civil war for that matter.
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Toto Ian "神州 Shenzhou king and emperors are cowardly" And so are Presidents as well. Why did US President Bush ordered invasion of Iraq on suspicion of harboring WMD, but after the war, no WMD were ever found? Didn't Bush hide behind the brave American soldiers fighting and dying on foreign soil?
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@dhk1126 China has this political doctrine called "Mandate of Heaven" in which a competent king is allowed to remain in power, while an incompetent king will eventually be overthrown by revolution. And it worked for 5000 years for China, so why can't we continue this process? Look, President Xi Jinping has shown to be capable leader of China, so by abolishing the term limits, he can remain in power to maximise the benefits to China. Whereas look at Us President Trump, having to step down after 4-8 years. He can't make any long-term plans for American (spanning more than 10 years) when he has to step down. Whereas the Chinese government has put forth many 5-year plans, 10-year plans, 20-year plans, 30-year plans, etc to map out China's direction and future in 2020, 2030, 2040, 2050, etc, and to set specific goals for China to achieve.
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@urbanistgod I have argued my case thoroughly, and the fact is you can't refute my points at all. Ordinary people don't always vote responsibly, or they base decisions on emotions not logic, or they simply lack political awareness. So why let ordinary people vote in elections regarding the country's future? Why not let those who know how to govern, govern? Authoritarianism and Oligarchies were commonplace in ancient times, even the world's largest democracy, India, was once an authoritarian empire where the Caste System dominated, and the Brahmins (the priests at the top of the caste pyramid) made all the important political decisions because they were the most well-read Caste. And it worked for India! That's why the Caste system endured in India for so long, up to the modern day, because that was how their country was run since ancient times.
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@srivthefour7468 Authoritarian governments may also get replaced with different people. For example, the older, hardliner Chinese communist members are slowly retiring or dying off, while the new, fresher, younger communist members are slowly taking their place in the party. According to the following source, the CCP consists of: -There are 1.7 million new CCP members aged under 35. -Of new members, almost 39% had University or Graduate Degrees -The number of female members also increased, the figures showed, with 21.7 million women on the party roll last year. -Members identified as workers totalled 7.3 million, the figures showed, while 26 million were engaged in farming, herding or fishing. -A total of 12.5 million were identified as professionals, 9 million as administrative staff while 7.4 million were described as workers in party and government offices. -The total membership was 87.8 million. Source: China’s Communist Party now larger than the population of Germany scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/1829407/chinas-communist-party-enlists-million-new-members So of course, the CCP government is constantly changing, with older members retiring and newer Western-educated communist members joinin the party to vote on issues. There are also farmers, herders, fishermen, and other workers in the CCP party.
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@urbanistgod The thing is why are you so short-sighted? You only look back at only 100-200 years of history, when Britain was a colonial superpower spreading its ideology and forcing democracy onto its colonies. You don't look back further, by 1000 years, or by 2000 years, and see that throughout history, human civilization has always been mostly authoritarian, and that democracy failed in Rome and was never popular outside of Greece. Human society and behavior is more or less, cyclic throughout history, Ideologies come and go all the time, but authoritarianism remains prominent. The last 100-200 years of history is not representative of the previous 1000-2000 years of human history. You can't refute this fact, that's why you constantly talk about censorship instead of authoritarianism and democracy.
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@urbanistgod If anyone's defeated here, its you. I have argued my case firmly and with conviction, citing numerous sources, quoting historical accounts, and demonstrating that democracy was actually forced upon the world, by the British, in just 200 years. I even argued logically that ordinary citizens aren't qualified to vote, and its the elites who have the political awareness to make important decisions regarding the country's future. You lost, that's why you keep bringing up censorship, because you have no argument for democracy other than claiming "its right". Democracy is the popular thing, but not necessary the right thing, as I have been saying.
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@urbanistgod In this short lecture, a Chinese professor explains the "genetic defects" of Western democracy. Video: The three ‘genetic defects’ of the Western model youtube.com/watch?v=G_JeHH5mW14 1. Assumption that all human beings are rational. This is not true, there are rational and irrational people (even ultra-irrational) when it comes to casting their votes. Politicians prey on voters irrationality with false promises of making the country great again. Even Hitler preyed on German people's resentment towards Treaty of Versailles and promised to make Germany great again. 2. The belief that all Rights are Absolute. Individual rights are overinflated and individual responsibilities are declining. There are so many "rights" which lead to conflict (gay rights versus anti-gay rights, abortionist rights versus non-abortionists rights. religious believers rights vs non-believer rights) This immense strain is tearing apart the fabric of society as everyone is lobbying for their own rights. 3. The belief that democracy is absolute. No reforms can be made to USA, unless it amends its constitution, but changing America's constitution is notoriously difficult and in the end, hardly any change is done Political systems need to evolve with time but USA is undergoing "political stagnation" because it is too rigid with its own constitution.
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@urbanistgod You clearly can't refute my points that's why you were defeated. You don't even bother to summarize your points, because you know just how bad they are and how biased they are, and that's why you refuse to summarize your points. You can't refute me, that's why you resort to alternative attacks like calling me 50 cents, or bringing up censorship (which even related to the discussion).
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@urbanistgod Censorship is necessary, because a country needs its citizens to believe in its leaders right to rule. China is flourishing today because Chinese citizens believe in their leaders so they work hard to improve living conditions and advance technology for the sake of the country. Whereas in the USA for example, Americans have become cynical, obsessed with their own rights and a decline in their individual responsibilities. They mock, poke fun and ridicule their leaders, so much that no one takes their leaders seriously and it becomes extremely difficult for the US government to make any move, because inevitably, they'll trample on someone's rights. Americans don't seem to care about America and some have already given up on their country. Whereas in China, there is a strong sense of nationalism which has been cultivated through censorship and promoting Chinese achievements. Thus, in short, a country is doomed to fail, if its own citizens don't believe in their own country. Censorship helps promote nationalism, which is the glue that keeps a nation's people together. This is why China needs censorship.
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@urbanistgod "神州 Shenzhou Most civilized developed countries are democratic and it’s working well, but of course, you’re gonna talk about U.S issues." So if I don't talk about U.S issues, then what about Brexit? The former British PM David Cameron had a referendum on whether Britain should leave the UK (he is personally against Brexit) but the poll results show British citizens their country want to leave EU. And Cameron resigned as a result. Brexit is a mess for British politicians even the latest British PM Theresa May can't even handle Brexit negotiations, so what a mess Britain has gotten into. All because they let ordinary citizens participate in political decisions affecting the country's future.
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@urbanistgod China's economy won't work without censorship. Look at India, world's largest democracy, and it doesn't have censorship like China, it has world's 2nd largest population so its workforce is similar to China's. Many Indians speak English (favorable for Westerners) but most Chinese struggle with English even today. India is also founding member of WTO in 1995, whereas China had a late entry in 2001. Yet despite these advantages India has, China has long overtaken India in many sectors. -China is world's 2nd largest economy, India is world's 7th. -China has world's 2nd highest military spending, India has world's 5th. -China has world's 2nd highest research spending, while India is 6th. -China has literacy rate of 96.4%, India has literacy rate of 72.1%. -China has Global Hunger Index of 7.5(low) whereas India's is 31.4(serious) -China is world's 3rd largest arms exporter. India is world's largest arms importer. -China has produced many Chinese companies like Huawei, Xiaomi, ZTE, Oppo, Alibaba, Tencent, Baidu, JD, Meituan-Dianping, NetEase, Bank of China, ICBC, AgBank, China Construction Bank, State Grid, Sinopec, China National Petroleum, China Minmetals, Ping An Insurance, China Shipbuilding Industry, China State Shipbuilding, and many of them made into top business magazines like Forbes Global 2000 or Fortune Global 500 Sources: List of largest banks wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_banks List of largest Internet companies wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_Internet_companies Forbes Global 2000 wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes_Global_2000 Fortune Global 500 wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune_Global_500 List of the largest shipbuilding companies wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_shipbuilding_companies But where are all the famous Indian companies?
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@urbanistgod "Why don’t you compare with the United States?" Hey! you told me earlier not to talk about the United States didn't you? So why can't I talk about India then, since it has similar population size to China, also being dirt-poor country once like China? So you think its all "coincidence" that India is the largest democracy and they’re not developed like China? You clearly lost the argument, that's why you keep on nitpicking on my points that's all.
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@urbanistgod North Korea is not doing well today, because it is currently at war with the United States (which the USA first declared on NK back during Korean War). North Korea is unable to attract investors to come invest in the country, because of USA slapping crippling sanctions on DPRK and stymieing its economic growth. In 2016, it was revealed that North Korea actually approached the United States about conducting formal peace talks to formally end the war. China wants to develop better trade relations with North Korea and help open up its economy, but we can't do much, with the US sanctions in place. Even some Western investors like the famous American businessman and financial commentator based in Singapore, want's to open up investments in DPRK, but he can't do anything with the US sanctions in place. "I'm a citizen in the Land of the Free, but I cannot invest in North Korea?" - American Jim Rogers, Video: Trump is making China great again: Jim Rogers youtube.com/watch?v=D4Kk6miiymk Therefore, North Korea is poor not because of authoritarianism (in fact, Jim Rogers says Kim Jong Um is making sweeping changes to its government) but because the USA is slapping crippling sanctions and preventing DPRK from modernizing.
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@urbanistgod What do you mean your example with North Korea is good while my example with India is bad? I have literally shown that North Korea is poor because of US sanctions slapped on it and preventing it from opening up, what has authoritarianism got to do with this? You example of North Korea failed to show how exactly authoritianism is bad. And I thought you said earlier that you don't want me to mention the USA right? And if you want an example of authoritian regime that is rich, just look at Saudi Arabia. It's a dictatorship but its doing very well isn't it? And you know why India is suffering under democracy? It's because they only have low literacy rate. So why allow the entire population of India to vote in political decisions, when over 25% of India's population is illiterate? Every 1 in 4 Indians are illiterate yet you still allow them to participate in decisions that will affect their country's future? So isn't it you that are unable to refute my points.
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@srivthefour7468 Prisoners take up space and resources. America has the world's largest prison incarceration rate and its prisons are so full and packed to overcapacity, that sometimes the US government release convicts back on to the streets in order to ease the overcrowded situation of its prisons. Source: List of countries by incarceration rate wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate Such a huge prison population represents a massive drain on the countries resources, for maintenance and upkeep of its prisoners. Worst, many ex-convicts find it difficult to find work, so they return to life of crime and land up back in jail. China observes capital punishment laws so by executing prisoners who've committed horrible crimes, China is freeing up resources that would have otherwise been spent on upkeeping a huge prison population like what the USA is suffering. This freed resources can then be spent elsewhere like on growing our economy. That's why China is so successful here.
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@urbanistgod You can't refute my points, because your points don't stand up to scrutiny. Look, you just claim "神州 Shenzhou North Korea is the way it is because there’s no democracy .... etc" Did you know that when Korea was partitioned into North Korea (USSR) and South Korea (USA), the North Korea was actually doing better off economically, while South Korea was poor and its GDP was even than even some sub-saharan African countries, under democracy? North Korea only began to decline, because of USA slapping crippling sanctions on it, and refusing to sign a peace treaty with DPRK in order to formally end the Korean War, and allow investment in DPRK. And look at Saudi Arabia, an authoritarian dictatorship, but its economy is progressing so well because it is good allies with USA. I heard in Saudi Arabia, women were forbidden to even drive, and Saudi Prince had brutally murdered a journalist named Khashoggi, and yet President Trump stands with Saudi Arabia and called Khashoggi "a traitor of the people." Source: Trump 'stands with' Saudi Arabia and defends crown prince over Khashoggi theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/20/trump-saudi-arabia-jamal-khashoggi-crown-prince
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@srivthefour7468 Let's get this straight. Jail time is not fun and games. You have committed a crime and broken laws, so you are being punished by being sentenced to jail for your crimes. But jail time in the USA isn't working to reform criminals, because many released ex-convicts don't return to proper society, and many return to life of crime, and wound up back in jail. Because to them, life is easier in jail than it is outside, that's why US prison populations have swollen to the point it becomes a burden on US resources. China observes Capital Punishment, which not only frees up resources from upkeep and maintenance of prison populations, but it also acts as a severe deterrent for would-be criminals, by making them fearful of the consequences of getting caught. In the West, capital punishment is rare, so many criminals in Western countries commit crimes, thinking that they can always get away with it, because they won't be sentenced to death. Your soft punishments are making it more "attractive" for potential criminals to turn to life of crime. Even if you don't execute them, China also has reeducation camps in which people are receiving free education and being trained in skills necessary to prepare them for the workplace. How is this a bad idea? The ultimate goal of prison is to reform citizens to become productive members of society, not encourage people to stay in jail and waste their life away. And what's the link between prisoner incarceration and capital punishment, and having an elected government? Are you simply trying to take potshots at other countries form of government?
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