Comments by "MarcosElMalo2" (@MarcosElMalo2) on "What El Salvador's Mega-Prison (ACTUALLY) Means for Its Future... || Peter Zeihan" video.

How far back is “always”? Do you mean before the U.S. got involved with Salvador’s civil war, during the war, or after? How much of the narco trafficking was conducted by military or ex-military? What of the death squads? Do their victims count as homicides or casualties of war? I am not one of those “America is always wrong, bad, imperialist, etc.” types. But we need to recognize the part we have played in El Salvador and other parts of Central America especially back in the 70s y 80s.
5
@kucanusa3750 Are you also an outsider to the concept of human rights? I’m sorry that sounds harsh. I understand what you are saying and I sympathize with your reaction. But do you think that due process should be a universal right or only for people in the U.S.? Also, locking people in a cage without food or light is by itself cruel and unusual punishment, but it is even worse if you’re doing it so they kill each other. There is also a historical backdrop to this story, the civil war of the 70s and 80s, in which the government performed extrajudicial killings of dissidents, journalists, and priests. The military was sent out to the countryside where they murdered entire villages on the pretext that they were rebels. (And for additional background, the U.S. was providing arms and training to the Salvadoran military at this time.) I don’t think that the narco gangs are freedom fighters, and I don’t equate drug trafficking with communism (although both are bad). So it’s not an exact comparison. But do you see how the brutal excesses of one war might be repeated in this war against drug traffickers? Without sufficient human rights being enforced, legal rights we enjoy in the U.S., such excesses are almost guaranteed. Ultimately your initial reaction is emotional. It’s understandable why someone would feel that way. But I hope that given time to reflect, perhaps with new information, you’ll temper your emotions with a more compressive sense of Justice for All. Now, I think you can make an effective counter argument if you wish, because the problem doesn’t have clear cut solutions. Go for it if you’d like, but if you don’t have time or inclination, I understand. I don’t claim to be 100% right with my position.
2
@phantomcreamer How are you framing the debate? Do you think that what happens in El Salvador has no geopolitical context? WRT to what I sound like to you, I’m not part of the “blame America for everything” brigade. But the fact remains that we screw up and those screw ups come back to haunt us. Aren’t we supposed to clean up our messes?
2
Incidentally, Mara Salvatrucha formed in the U.S. and was exported back to Salvador. Initially in the U.S. it was an ethnic street gang competing with other street gangs, but they got really ruthless and deadly when they got organized by ex-members of the Salvadoran military (who had been sent to the U.S to assassinate Salvadoran rebels who were hiding). It’s also important to remember exactly what as going on in El Salvador at the time. The U.S. supported the dictatorship with weapons and training for the military and the security services, with the CIA training the security services (secret police). I don’t know what techniques were taught, but the Salvadoran secret police was infamous for torture and for sending death squads to assassinate priests, journalists, dissidents, etc. Basically any sort of opposition was mercilessly destroyed. So if we wonder why Salvador is a crime infested shït hole, we need to recognize that we played a major part in it becoming that way. We can’t pretend that we had nothing to do with destabilizing that country when we are confronted by immigrants fleeing the violence. It’s much the same deal with Guatemala, although I think we were less directly involved there. Ditto Honduras. Anyhoo, U.S. policies really damaged Central America. You can argue that the region was already effed up, but we definitely made it worse. Before we get all anti-America, though, we need to remember the context. The Cold War was still on. Nicaraguan communists (the Sandinistas) had overthrown the U.S. supported dictator there. Our government feared Nicaragua would become another Cuba, and that the other Central American countries would follow suit. Imo, the Cold War fears had justification, but our methods were not justified. We fucked up, guys. I don’t know how we can fix it. For a start, perhaps we should avoid xenophobia when Central Americans come to our borders seeking refuge from the violence in their countries.
2
@WolverineXOXO But how do you guarantee due process for an innocent person swept up and thrown in this prison? I agree that the common people have a right to safety from the criminal gangs, but they also have a right to safety from a government with a bad historical record wrt human rights abuses (extrajudicial killings of priests, journalists, and dissidents, for example). Getting the scum off the street is important, but I want to know about what safeguards or processes are in place to prevent a return to the bad old days?
1