Comments by "Posthumanist" (@thornelderfin) on "PolyMatter"
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@hyxnbwd666 You said: "If China truly had the same problems as Russia, it wouldn't have become the world's second-largest economy. This achievement isn't solely due to its population size."
-- GDP of Russia = $15,444
-- GDP of China = $13,721
So it is exactly because of population size. China's GDP is around that if Russia, Malaysia, Costa Rica, Bulgaria and Argentina. But mutiply that by the population and you get second largest econonmy in the world (if you don't count EU as a single economy, otherwise it's third). A LOT of the economic success was due to China opening to foreign investments and foreign trade. So don't paint China as some kind of miracle, because it is not. It has medium level GDP, comparable to the countries I've listed above (including Russia), and just incredibly large population - so if you add that up together it's going to be trillions of USD inevitably.
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@webcaveman4534 Alright, let's separate annexations from colonies. I was born and grew up in communist Czechoslovakia completely under control of Moscow, with tanks sent against our people who were completely unarmed just for the grave sin of trying to be very little bit more independent (we had a movement called "communism, but with a human(e) face", that was not acceptable for Moscow, so they sent tanks in 1968). Their secret police roamed free and disappeared people regularly. Also killed quarter of my family (1948) and sent the rest to labor camp for 3 years. Many many people were not that lucky and got disappeared permanently. Moscow also took most of our resources (we really had no say in anything, it was a totalitarian dictatorship installed by Moscow). If you wanted to leave the country you got shot at the border, everyone, even children. I lived right at the border, but it wasn't even a secret, they wanted people to know. Not having a job was illegal. All jobs were for the state (=Moscow), as private enterprises didn't exist / were not allowed. It was one very large "labor camp" for Russia/Moscow (don't tell me bullshit about USSR not being Russia, you will just make me very angry, I was there!, it was 100.00% controlled by Moscow, it was Russian empire 2.0 with external colonies and internal colonies). Moscow destroyed economy of my country, killed so many of us and took everything they wanted. We were exactly what you describe as a colony. Poland had same fate, Hungary had same fate, Romania was also a colony of Russia/Moscow, Bulgaria was the same, DDR was the same, and Yugoslavia and Albania. ... So now compared this with how many colonies had USA at that time (please, make a list of countries held as colonies by the US in 1980s, so we can compare), and UK, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain and Portugal decolonized in early 1960s almost completely (there were very few left, and shame on them for that). Next comment we compare internal colonies and annexations.
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@webcaveman4534 You: "
If we were to make a list of countries that were annexed by the Soviet Union directly (not just Russia), most of which were remnants from the Tsarist period, we get:
- Estonia (only the 3 baltic countries were annexed following a period of brief independence)
- Latvia
- Lithuania
- Azerbaijan (countries from here down are from the Tsarist era)
- Georgia
- Moldova
- Ukraine
- Belarus
- Kazakhstan
- Tajikistan
- Uzbekistan
- Kyrgyzstan
- Turkmenistan "
-- Thank you for making the list. It seems accurate, except the remark that Soviet Union was not Russia - it absolutely was Russia and everything was 100% controlled by Moscow, everyone who ever lived under Soviet Union and the colonies (Eastern bloc) has experienced that (including me) and knows it without a doubt. There are millions and millions of witnesses still alive today. The Eastern bloc were external colonies of Russia, then the remaining 14 USSR countries were internal colonies of Russia, and even inside Russia proper absolute majority of the land are internal-internal colonies - Dagestan, Chechnya, Buryatia... all the Caucasus, entire Asian part of Russia. That is land of native tribes that have lived there longer than Slavs even exist and they have completely different ethnicity, completely different language, different religion, different culture... they are independent native nations and Muscovites just steamrolled through, killed everyone who resisted and took their land, took complete control, and extracted all their resources for profit. This is the very definition of colonies / colonization. I am now not blaming Russia for doing that hundreds of years ago - back then everyone was doing it (especially Western Europe). I am blaming Russia was not decolonizing in 1960s when everyone else did it. And STILL not decolonizing today (they are doing exactly the opposite - invading their former colony and annexing their land and people back). Muscovites are getting rich on siberian gas, oil, metals and other minerals, while they live in absolute desolation (I have friends from there and my father went there multiple times). These are Muscovite colonizes that they still refuse to let go - the land belongs to the natives who are different race, ethnicity, language, religion and culture. This is what I am talking about when I talk about destruction of Russia as a state in the next 10 years - its total and complete decolonization.
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@webcaveman4534 I agree with you that Russia has not been unique in its conquest and colonization - it was pretty standard. Even their brutality was commonplace back then in all other empires. What I am complaining about is that most other countries stopped doing that more than 2 generations ago and Russia somehow didn't get the memo. Even their brutality is stuck from 100 years ago. They had a chance to completely transform into a modern nation in 1991. But no, at the first sign of trouble they turned to a strongman and made him a dictator and now long for the old times and want Soviet Union back (just talk to regular Russians, you would be shocked how many of them want Soviet Union back and have Soviet flags). This is what I am complaining about. Instead of transforming into a modern nation from 1991, they are reverting and going back in time to Soviet glory days (1960s). Backwards nation, backwards culture, that constantly lives in the past, in the "Great Patriotic War" (which they started and caused and then couldn't even defend without massive external help, but somehow feel like they were the greatest victim and absolute victor). I had small hope for Russia in the 1990s, I would maybe even forgive them for my family and destroying my country, I am not sure... but no, they have proven they are now what they were back then. They bring the worst things from WWI and WWII times era and mentality into 2023. This is no longer acceptable.
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@webcaveman4534 You: (your paragraph about NATO expansion, Poland, nukes, Clinton, etc.)
-- Educated analysis that is probably factually true, but you omit one fundamental point of view - the moral one - What do people in these countries actually want. I've seen many people from the US and some from the West and everyone from Russia think about us small countries as not really equal, without even realizing they are doing it. We are all human and all humans are equal, so all countries have to be equal too. So you either look at this from moral point of view and then the only thing that matters is what tens of millions of human beings living here for thousands of years want - what Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania and Bulgaria wants (their people). Russia has absolutely no say whatsoever in what military alliances we join or what we do with our countries same way as Slovakia has absolutely no say whatsoever what Russia does with their country. A lot of people in the West forget this, because they instinctively perceive us as spheres of influence (=colonies) and not really "countries that matter" (Putin's words).
Or we can look at it from point of view of cynical geopolitics and "might makes right". In that case US should have strangled and destroyed Russia in 1991 - 1999. Russia was worse than Nazi Germany (in number if killed people and lives destroyed), and was not punished for genocide (Red Terror, Holodomor), for starting second world war together with Hitler, and for endangering entire world with nuclear weapons. USA had unique opportunity to save tens of millions of lives and possibly the whole world by destroying Moscow completely in 1945 (USA was the only country in the world with nuclear weapons at that point and Russia/USSR was completely destroyed with almost nothing left, it wouldn't even be a match, just nuke it repeatedly… I would gladly sacrifice my entire family and my own life to save tens of millions of people killed and hundreds of millions of lives destroyed by Russia and almost the whole world… gladly).
Second chance USA had to destroy Russia was from 1991 to 1999 when Russia was incredibly weak, hungry (US saved Russians from starvation… and what did they get for it? Just more hate), and incapable of putting any organized resistance (and it would be enough to just starve them, ruin them economically to the very bottom or dismantle Russia from within). USA did nothing… again. And what is result of this inaction? Invasion of Moldova, an absolute massacre of Chechnya and flattening Grozny, invasion of Georgia, invasion of Ukraine, mass murder in Syria and flattening of Aleppo, and now really large war in Europe. Russia should have been destroyed long time ago, all these people could have been alive… all these countries free, all the children still alive. How many times does Russia have to come back from the dead only to invade all the countries around it until USA finally understands that this country is cancer on human civilization, same way Nazi Germany was, same way Imperial Japan was… and Russia needs the same treatment as them.
Third best chance to destroy Russia is right now. But USA will not do it, because endless foreverwar in Europe is very lucrative business for American Military Industrial Complex. They will send enough weapons for Ukraine to not lose, but not enough to win. It will be difficult to balance, but that is what they are doing right now and what they will continue doing. That's why USA already approved 5-years support plan for Ukraine. They lost Afghanistan as lucrative business, now they are trying to seize the opportunity to make Ukraine a foreverwar. (and no, USA/CIA/NATO didn't start the war… I've been to both Russia and Ukraine, I know many Ukrainians, including my best friend, and I have 6 refugees in my house (2 mothers, 4 kids) since the beginning of the war, and they are native Russian speakers born in Ukraine… they all genuinely wanted to join the EU and be rich like other Eastern European countries that joined and join NATO to be protected from Russia after 2014… US Military Industrial Complex didn't put these thoughts in their mind, these are most natural wants of any person - to not be poor and not be invaded or oppressed … but US Military Industrial Complex is most certainly using everything they can out of this situation… as all corporations do).
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@webcaveman4534 You: "My opinion is that if there is a NATO, it should be for Europe only (like the EU) but limited for certain defense situations, like sharing intelligence, bases, and training together."
-- I would understand if US wanted out of NATO. That is 100% decision of US citizens and none else. But what "EU NATO" would do is only up to us here and none else. We are halfway to a superstate and one centralized military is a very logical step. We no longer plan to invade one another inside the EU (after 2500 years of doing just that non-stop), and we also don't plan to invade other countries (maybe except France and their mild imperial flashbacks), so we can all join our militaries into one single unit.
You: "I think it would be unwise to expand NATO to East Asia and Australia (see the name North Atlantic), as this treaty historically didn’t cover European outposts like Hong Kong, Goa, or the Falklands, and making it do so now would be needlessly provocative and cause more wars."
-- I disagree (my personal opinion). Russia is a totalitarian dictatorship with imperial ambitions. China is a totalitarian dictatorship with imperial ambitions. North Korea is an insane totalitarian dictatorship of unmatched brutality that has ambitions to invade South Korea. Iran is a theocracy dictatorship (I know some Iranians including one girl I dated and large part of the population hates the dictatorship but are powerless to overthrow it… they are still trying, many of them died in the process). You cannot compare these brutal dictatorships with something like USA. Yes, us democracy is very flawed (not 1 person = 1 vote, electoral college, superdelegates, gerrymandering, SuperPacs), but it is so very far from these dictatorships and nowhere near their brutality. Also Ukraine is 100% democratic (very corrupt, I've seen it, every Ukrainian will tell you that, but democratic and free). Taiwan is 100% democratic and free (I've also seen it when I was there). South Korea is 100% democratic and free. The totalitarian dictatorships stick together and have ambitions far beyond their borders. Either we (democratic and free countries) stick together and destroy these monstrosities (I was born inside one, I don't wish this fate on anyone, I want all these people to be free, same as I wished it for myself and my family while I was inside), or they will break us one by one until they conquer the whole world (and make no mistake, Hitler would have conquered the whole world, he would never stop, Stalin would have done the same, Hirohito would have done the same … it would be incredibly naïve that Russia and China would stop, anywhere, no, they will keep trying until they win the whole game and conquer everything). Same situation was in 1930s where totalitarian dictatorships started to ally with each other - Hitler with Mussolini, with Francisco Franco, with Stalin and Hirohito. Same thing is slowly happening today. We need to learn from history or we will repeat it again and again and again.
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@miaorenfeng1 Alright, that's more reasonable. I agree with what you said but with the following additional notes:
1) GDP PPP + HDI + GINI does matter in a potential war setting, because it is one of the factors that matter for emigration/immigration and whether you want to be annexed by another country (if Haiti is being annexed by USA and granted a full citizenship, democratic voting rights and freedom, they may not fight back as hard as for example Taiwan which has twice the standard of living of China, much better equality (GINI) and incomparably better development index (HDI) / standard of living, full democracy and even more incomparable freedom index). So this matters, because it gives morale and will to fight, but not as much as military power of course.
2) What you suggest about tertiary sector is very logical. But the actual mathematical function to calculate how capable would a country be in a war of attrition (assuming nobody wins in the first months of war), this has to be a very complex mathematical function that includes everything you said and a lot more, including reserve stockpiles, levels of corruption in the military and society as a whole, discipline, morale, political and military allies ... I think this is all too much for people like us to responsibly be able to measure all these things. Even the US invasion of Luxembourg might not be as simple as just two numbers due to France, Belgium, Germany, EU, UN, local US support for such action and many other factors. ... But we can of course crudely compare brute military force by military expenditure of given country over long periods of time (stockpiles).
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@miaorenfeng1 You: "I think you are exaggerating the role of democracy and freedom, most countries are democratic and free, but most of them are far less developed than China. For Chinese, democracy and freedom are not a necessity, but a condiment."
-- I was born under Russian military occupation in a communist totalitarian country (here in Europe) and was forced to grow up in it. You don't have to tell me the value of freedom and of democracy. Only people who lost it understand it. Only people who don't have mentality like sheep, that they don't want to be herded like cattle by someone else. It is far more important than any money or standard of living. We were not able to even leave our country (you would get shot at the border, everyone got) and work was mandatory, it was illegal to not have a job (you could still choose which one, but you couldn't be without a job - that was punishable by law). It was like one large prison colony. If you give up some of your right to vote or some of your freedom to have more money - in the end totalitarian dictatros will take all your rights to vote, all your freedom (whenever they want) and then in the end even all your money, because there is nothing you can do about it. Personal freedom and right to vote (democracy) is absolutely fundamental to existence.
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@miaorenfeng1 You: "The USSR had many allies when it was strong, and when it declined, former allies became current enemies"
-- That's true. I am one of them.
You: "The vast majority of America's allies do not have a conflict of interest with China, and there are even many allied allies whose largest trading partner is China, and an all-out war with China would not do any good to these countries."
-- To be clear. If China doesn't invade Taiwan, then I don't want war with China, and I don't want to destroy or invade China. 100% But if China invades Taiwan, then everything is off the table and we will fight till the end. It doesn't matter that it will hurt our economy in a horrible way (and China same way - it goes both ways), nothing matters at that point. It is very simple for China to avoid complete disaster - just don't invade free and democratic Taiwan (if China wants Taiwan it has to PERSUADE Taiwanese people to actually want to join, that's fine), or any other neighboring country. If China doesn't invade anyone with military, I am fine with China.
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@miaorenfeng1 You: "The US is in an all-out war with China to maintain US world supremacy, what benefits can US allies gain?"
-- I can say the same about China. Teaching Han Chinese supremacy in schools (ethno-nationalist government) and teaching that west is the enemy to small children (to be fair they teach small children how to kill Japanese, which they hate even more than us from the west). China is constantly preparing for war and rallying internally... what did China expect, that we will watch like stupid and not prepare for it? If China didn't want war witht he west, it should probably not rally against the evil west interanlly to their own people non-stop (they think if it's in Mandarin that west will not find out or what? I don't understand their plan). Again, nobody was going to invade China (same as nobody was going to invade Russia), we are all doing business with China, there is respect for China... what more do they need? Why rally against the west? We here in Europe have absolutely no mass media campaign against China, there is nothing like this here, but China has that against us internaly.
You: "Even Japan will not participate in a war between China and the US."
-- China hates Japan so much, that even US and Europe is not hated that much. I know, Japanese did some uspeakable things in China, that is true. But everyone who did that is already dead. Japan is now new country, with new people, new goals. They do not conquer anyone anymore, they do not build their military, they focus on technology and economy. Why can't China forgive after such an incredibly long time (3 entire generations). My family was killed by Nazi Germans, part of them had to flee, we lost a lot... but we hold no grudge against Germans today. We have no hate for them, all is forgiven, because they are a changed country. My country has been occupied by Hungary for 1000 years (yes, 1 thousand), yet we don't hate the Hungarians. It was a long time ago and everyone who did it is dead. We focus on the future. But not China, still so much hate for Japan. Then if the war breaks out Taiwan will be there, Japan will be there, Korea will be there, Australia will be there, Europe will be there, USA will be there, Canada will be there... and even India doesn't like China (border war and mutual vilification). China is not exactly making friends with its foreign policy.
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@ArawnOfAnnwn You are just an American (you posted while it was night here in Europe, or early morning in eastern Russia) who read about this on some social media post and now you are an expert. I live right next to Ukraine, I have been there many times and I have many friends from there including my best friend for the past 15 years. I have also been to Russia once and know several people from there. Ukrainians always wanted to join EU and not be part of Russian empire ever again (oppression, poverty, Red Terror, Holodomor genocide). In 2003 they started Orange revolution against a Russian controlled puppet president and in 2014 they did exactly the same when democratically elected president who promissed accession to the EU turned 180° on this election promise and dismissed the EU accession. This made MILLIONS of people angry and ousted the president (which happens in my country all the time - people give vote, people can take it back at any time - president is your SERVANT that you are paying to do some political tasks for you, NOTHING MORE, if your servant / employee doesn't perform his tasks, you will fire him... you should try that). Then immediately after ousting the corrupt president (who fled to Russia next day and left lavish opulent palaces of corruption behind him, it made Ukrainians really angry) they had proper election and voted in a fully democratic way. (Neo-nazi far-right party Right Sector got 1% of vote, that's for a country full of Nazis) They voted in Petro Poroshenko - a corrupt oligarch, because he had the money for political campaign. After 4 years, they were disappointed with him and voted for anti-corruption candidate Zelensky (who turned out to be little bit corrupt too, off shore account in Panama) and they were being disappointed by him in 2021 too, his popularity droped very much, until Russia invaded, now his popularity is 90%, only because of the invasion, if Russia didn't invade AGAIN in 2022, Ukrainians would vote Zelensky out and vote for another politician to disappoint them). This is all 100% democratic and it's straight from Ukrainians themselves, and as I said, I have been there many times. ... Ukrainians want to be part of EU and always wanted to be part of EU and Russia has ABSOLUTELY NO SAY IN IT. Same way Ukraine has no say in who can and who cannot be president of Russia, Estonia, Lavtia, Lithuania, Findland, Sweden, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Moldova, Georgia, Turkey - have no say in who can and who cannot be Russian president, or who can Russia go into alliance with. Russians were born in that country, they have lived their entire lives there, and they are the ONLY ones who will decide what alliances will Russia join and what to do with their land. Same way Ukrainians are the ONLY ones who decide whether to join NATO, EU or anything als and Russia has NO SAY in it, absolutely none. Taiwanese who were born there, lived their entire life there, have their home there, they are the only ones who decide what happens with Taiwan, not some imperial power of China. China has absolutely no say in it. Land belongs to the people.
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@webcaveman4534 You: "Also I'm not sure what you mean by Russia invading Romania, Korea or Japan. By this logic the US invaded Japan, Germany, Belgium, France, and Netherlands."
-- Japan and Germany was obviously invaded by USA and later occupied. I don't think I have to explain why and who started the war.
-- Belgium, France and Netherlands were not invaded by the US, they were liberated, because US didn't stay after liberation and didn't install puppet government and detroy democracy in those countries. On the contrary USSR didn't liberate Czechoslovakia (first of all, they helped Hitler immensely to start WWII as strong allies diving the spoils of Europe, but you seem like an educated person who understands history, so I will not write details about Ribbentrop-Molotov, I am sure you know all the details), USSR didn't "liberate" Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary, ... they just "reconquered" from Hitler. They never left, they installed puppet governments here and made us their colonies. That's not liberation. They start a war, allied with Hitler having written agreement about which countries which of them will invade and annex and then when Hitler betrays them they act as "liberators" (using Ukrainians as cannon fodders in that "liberation" but then taking all the credit for it) and in the end just enslave us all the same. Even erect stupid monuments to their greatness, so we never forget (now you know why we are destroying them, for us hammer and sickle is same as swastika, they did the same things to us).
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@webcaveman4534 You: "Also, mentioning Chechnya is awkward since it was internationally recognized as Russian, even if the population doesn't agree, no different than Spanish ownership of Catalonia or their threats to stop a referendum by force."
-- I agree that it is the same and Catalonia was a great disgrace for Spain. I am still disgusted by it. There is no difference in principle, but there is huge difference in the method - Grozny was completely destroyed and 100k - 300k people killed.
-- I believe in independence and that land belongs to the people who were born on it and have lived there their entire life, not some imaginary social constructs (states) and so they can decide what to do with their own land. That's why I was side of Catalonia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Taiwan, and all the colonies going independent if they want to. I would even accpet Crimea or Donetsk and Luhansk if it was a serious referendum with absolutely no soldiers present and international observers from all countries in the world. (which is absolutely not what happened... as I live next to Ukraine I have been there many times and have several friends from there, one is from Crimea and one is from Luhansk, they both had to flee few months after the annexation (2014). There were hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who were pushed out and had to run away - a fair referendum is now impossible (unless you allow only people who were born there to vote, not Russian imports). Chechnya should be free. It's their country, not Muscovite's.
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@webcaveman4534 I will write my comments in () into your list.
Here are the US invasions and their consequences, there are plenty to choose from since 1960:
- Iraq (I assume you mean 2003 - I totally agree, I was there 20 years ago protesting infront of US embassy, like millions of other people... we didn't believe the "weapons of mass destruction" same way we don't believe the "biolabs" and nazis today... when you invade a country, you make up an excuse (or 20 different ones if you are Russia in 2022), because why wouldn't you, it's the cheapest thing about the invasion - the excuse)
- Afghanistan (absolutely agree - completely unjustified invasion, same as Russian invasion there and British)
- Syria (TANF) (this is more complicated than Iraq or Afghanistan, but partially you are right)
- Libya (re-establishing the slave trade) (this wasn't like Russian invasions, there were no land forces nad Libya is not a puppet state of US or France, it was just pure destruction with aerial bombing and then abandonment... still counts as evil)
- Niger (a lot of drone strikes were occuring there) (I wouldn't count this as an invasion, occupation, colonization, puppet state... this is one entire category down... I am not defending it, but it cannot be compared to Iraq, Afghanistan or Ukraine)
- Kosovo (still a base there) (like I wrote above - I am on the side of people wanting to be independent from a larger state)
- Panama (Noriega was originally a trafficker liked by the CIA) (I don't know about the claims you wrote, but definitely US "special military operation" there to protect their interests (which is NOT a legitimate reason), so I agree)
- Vietnam (here I partially agree with the reason to join, but I absolutely disagree with the method - one of the greatest shames in US history (of course Native American genocide and slavery is worse, but still at the top) )
- Laos (most bombed country in history per sq/mi) (I do not know much about this, I try to not comment on regions where I have not lived or don't have it thoroughly studied and know people from that region... I know a lot about Russia and Ukraine because it's my backyard and personal history, but I don't know much about Laos or Cambodia, I am sorry)
- Cambodia (later helped the Khmer Rouge vs. Vietnam)
- Cuba (Bay of Pigs) (I agree - shame on US for this... also the unending crippling destructive sanctions to this small island just break my heart... Cuba is not a military threat to anyone, they do not even issue threats or build their military like North Korea for example. I hate the Cuban communist totalitarian dictatorship, thoroguhly. But there are people in Cuba who where born under sanctions, lived their entire life under sanctions and then died of old age under sanctions... for what? how are the sanctions helping anyone anywhere at all? This is a disgrace and injustice to people who were simply born into a "wrong" country. So I fully agree.)
- Various regime change operations in Latin America (my extended family fled Hitler all the way to Chile, created great life there... and then got almost killed by Pinochet, very narrowly escaped the country) (while all these things are truly evil, they are not the same category as military invasion of a country, and we would have to expand the list for Russia with all the countries that had communist revolutions (aided by Russia) and overthrown a government only to install themselves as totalitarian communist dictators - it's exactly the same thing as US was doing in Latin America, just in different colors ... of course one does not justify or excuse the other - they are both very guilty)
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@webcaveman4534 You: "While I dislike the governments of Russia and China, cockriding the US government just shows that you are inauthentic."
-- From my point of view USA has done many evil invasions and toppled several democracies. But you have not experienced Russian boot on your face, you have not experienced the sheer brutality they bring with them (even US Vietnam, the top of their brutality is nothing like what Russia brings, Russia does it even to their own people, they have so little empathy for anything alive you would be shocked, that country is very sick). We are free over here only because Russia "armed itself to death" (spending 30% of GDP on weapons in peace time and disintegrating the rotten state from inside), we had our revolutions and turned into true democracies (which we were before Russia and Hitler occupied us). From that point we knew it's only a matter of time before Russia regains strength and reinvades us. We worked really really hard to get into EU and NATO. I was there 20 years ago, I voted for it. USA is the only country in the world that can realistically protect us against Russia invading us AGAIN and re-strarting their brutality on us. So yes, we chose the lesser evil to protect us from much greater evil. It was choice of the people, we all voted. I am not being inauthentic as you said, I know what US is and people like John Bolton, I just also know very intimately what Russia is. We need USA to survive. Regarding China - I see all the same traits in China that I saw in Soviet Union, they really copied so much from the Russians, even all the flaws, all the bad, everything. I also lived briefly in Taiwan and extensively in the Philippines. I am worried that China will go on the same warpath as Russia soon. Taiwan is fully democratic and free, Philippines are fully democratic and free, as are many other countries in the region. I don't consider "democracy" some hilarious word that means "propaganda created by the US to justify their invasions". Democracy is real and extremely important, as is freedom. I lived first half of my life without it, so I value it above most other things. People who lived their entire lives in freedom and democracy won't see it the same way. You have to truly lose it completely to fully understand how valuable it is. I hope Russia is broken into small pieces and that China either stays inside their borders or if they don't are destroyed and broken into small pieces as well. If only both Russia and China stayed inside their countries - the whole world was trading with them, they were rich, they had everything... but no, to a totalitarian dictator it is never enough, they always need more.
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@webcaveman4534 You: "First, it seems like your conflict was heavily with Soviet socialist economic control of Czechoslovakia w/regards to state ownership of the economy and poor jobs. ... But we are not mentioning socialism in this discussion, only that of Russia and Russian imperialism."
-- It may seem like this to an outsider, but it wasn't just some socialism or communism, we were a proper colony of Moscow with everything that comes with it. Puppet government made no real decisions, everything had to be approved by Moscow (so same as any other western colony in the past), our people were killed by Russian KGB (which roamed free here and could extract anyone they wanted and take him or her to USSR, Siberia, or anywhere they wanted). This is not just some "socialism" or political idelogoy. We were truly occupied by Moscow. When our puppet government got ideas of making it little bit more free for the local population, Moscow ordered a full invasion (1968), their tanks took control of all airports, government buildings and kidnapped the prime minister to Moscow for "reeducation". This is not some "economic control", this is full colony status. And there was no way to leave. Hungary tried in 1956 (massacre), Poland tried in 1980. Also from 1948 to 1953 there were purges (when my family was killed, everything was taken from us and the rest was sent to labor camps... fortunately local (survivable), not Siberian (not survivable), or I would never have been born).
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@webcaveman4534 You: "In 1914-1920, 100,000 Czechs/Slovaks basically defected from the Austro-Hungarian military to the Entente (Czechoslovak legion), with most becoming Russian soldiers."
-- I understand how this may seem to you like love for Russia or hate for the west, but it was something different. Slovakia has been conquered and occupied for 1000 years by Hungary (it wasn't particularly brutal, but still, you wouldn't want that for your nation). You can imagine how soldiers forced by Austria-Hungary to fight and die would join the opposite side which promised them freedom and sovereignty (and they upheld their word, we were given freedom after such an unimaginably long time and Czechoslovakia was formed and internationally recognized). So this had nothing to do with love for Russia or hate for the west (our sovereignty was negotiated with UK and France and we later had formal military and political alliance with France).
You: "Indeed, the communist party won 38% of the fair election in 1946 prior to the coup. Even Churchill’s plans for Operation Unthinkable did not believe that the population there would be overwhelmingly pro-Western."
-- Well, we can only speculate, because I wasn't alive, but my parents were and we were definitely more "pro-western" than "pro-Russian". We are Western Slavs, we have a lot more common with Germany, Austria and as I mentioned Hungary, than we have with Russia. We had nothing to do with Russia prior to their invasion (we don't even use their alphabet and are hundreds of years older). Russians were considered barbarians over here (even when "liberating" from the Nazis Russian soldiers raped everything that they got their hands on, my family had to hide their women in the cellar in this very house that I am typing these messages. Soviet soldiers (not just Russian) also stole everything they could get their hands on, especially watches - they had nothing like that back home... Nazis didn't steal that much), and this was supposed to be a "liberation". There was no widespread love for Russians here, they were barbarians to my people. Before the WWII, we had 20 years of freedom, democracy, growth, we had alliance with France, we had very good relationship with the UK (a garantor of our sovereignty). This was our very short lived golden age - so if we could return to this after WWII, we would continue with free democratic development and good relationships with the west and maybe even trade with USSR. Absolute majority of people wanted this, and not to be a puppet colony living under totalitarian dictatorship and not able to leave the country and constantly being prepared as cannon fodder for the great war with the west. ... Then laster after 40 years of Russian brainwashing (they start at kindergarten) smaller part of population was thoroughly brainwashed and worshiped Russia (unfortunately I have them in close family, such brain damage can never be repaired), but majority of the population hated Russians... there was just nothing we could do, only wait. The moment Russia was weak (1989), we instantly revolted, all of us, no "CIA operation" or manupulation from the west, we wanted this for such a long time, we didn't need anyone from outside to tell us to hate Russians and to want to be free. Same thing happened in Poland, in Hungary, in Romania, and later in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania... it's not some CIA conspiracy, we just all hated Russia and wanted to be free. Same way former colonies of western european countries hated their oppressors and wanted to be free - they didn't need some "CIA" to tell them that or manipulate them.
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@webcaveman4534 You: "The Arab world saw Europe as a land filled with wannabe crusaders and colonizers and the United States as only tangentially related, but due to the oil issues and the support for Israel in 1973, this led them to believe that the US was worse."
-- I do not have sufficient information to comment on that. But I believe it. And I don't blame them for hating on Western Europe after all the colonization, I empathize with them.
You: "Also today, there is clearly US puppetry in other countries, albeit not as violent. For example, the US government prefers other East Asian (most important being that of South Korea and Taiwan) governments that are allied with Japan or favor closer trade/military cooperation with it."
-- I wouldn't call South Korea, Japan or Taiwan as "US puppet". Yes, the US has interests and exerts diplomatic and media pressure on those countries - which is wrong, but it is very far from being a puppet state. Often I hear that we are also US puppet states. Slovakia has 50 politcial parties (for 5 million population) and they constantly go extinct and new are being formed (many just this year alone), and anyone can form a party and realistically even get to parliament and even be part of government coalition. Third of these parties talk shit about USA... nobody removes them, they don't get disappeared, there are no massive media campaigns against them, and they get considerable votes in elections (so not rigged by the US). If we are a US puppet state then I can't see it anywhere. ... And yes, we follow Brussels/EU and don't have full sovereignty in everything, but we gave that up voluntarily (we all voted for it 20 years ago) and it has worked for us remakably well. We are part of this "superstate" and I wouldn't call us a "puppet". I would reserve this for a truly puppet states that cannot make any decisions unless approved by the empire - the government practically doesn't exist, they are just a front so the occupation looks better.
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@webcaveman4534 You: "no different than Russia's bases in Syria"
-- Do you see me complaining about Russian military bases in Syria? I complain about their rotten dictator that has been in power for more than 30 years and his father before him (that's not normal in a democracy). But it is not my place to regime-change other countries just because they have a dictator. Syrian dictator invited Russia to establish bases there so that he can stay in power. I am not complaining about military bases... but there is a very dangerous edge between truly honestly invited foreign military (like Poland, Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia invited their military allies (USA, UK, and rest of NATO) to establish military bases there to protect them from Russia, and invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968, when some traitors in the government wrote an "invitation letter" for USSR/Warsaw Pact forces to invade and permanently reside in Czechoslovakia, which was obviously against will of the entire country. I would say Russian bases in Syria lie somewhere in between these two extremes, but it's very difficult to know how many Syrians want what. I don't know.
-- US bases in the Philippines have historically been remnant of the colonial era, but also after brutal invasion of Japan, were wanted by large parts of local population (difficult to know how many percent), and are now wanted by the majority because of Chinese threat. China did this to itself - if it wasn't so greedy and didn't start stealing islands and sink fishermen who have been fishing there for countless generations, Philippines wouldn't feel threatened and they would not re-invite the US. Of course I don't like Marcos family at all, but this has nothing to do with Marcos and everything to do with what China does to Philippines (and Vietnam, and Malaysia, and Indonesia, and of course Taiwan). Same way Finland and Sweden joined NATO (or will join soon) and invited more US troops to Finland and Poland - they all see what Russia does in Ukraine and they change their mind. This is not some elaborate CIA propaganda, it's common sense - you see your former oppressor (Russia) going back to the old ways and threatening everyone around them on Russian state TV almost daily with invasion, so you invite the only country that can actually protect you. This is 100% legitimate and not some colonization or puppet state. Russia is doing this to itself - if it didn't invade Ukraine then Finland and Sweden would never be in NATO and Poland wouldn't be building largest land army in Europe (against Russia). All Russia had to do was to keep to itself and trade with everyone and just chill... NATO would slowly fall apart over the decades as unecessary with EU military budgets at very lazy lows (why waste money on military when there is no war and you don't plan to start any... but now everything has changed and Russia did it to itself).
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@webcaveman4534 You: "funding for these parties to get them elected strongly, most notably France and Italy in 1945, where >30% of the population was going to vote Communist otherwise. Also, the Marshall plan aid was originally seen as a bribe to the leaders and people to support the CD or liberals in their parliament, which they then more ardently did so (who doesn't like free money)."
-- I don't consider this "regime change" under any circumstances. Sponsoring a politicial party or paying for a media campaign in another country is of course not alright, but it is very very far from a regime change. People are not stupid (and if they are it's their fault), they can still vote for whomever they want and its fully democratic. Russia does this in my country at this very moment - puring in millions and millions to manipulate the public opinion and support anti-western pro-Russian politicians (who were pro-western just 8 years ago, but you know, politicians and honor / having a spine don't go together well), and they are projected to win in the elections next month. Should US bomb Russia because they are manipulating elections in Slovakia? Should we call it a "regime change" by Russia? ... I don't like it, I hate it... but I wouldn't call it a regime change in my country - because people are still free to vote for whatever they want, they have just been persudaed (more like brainwashed) or bribed - but it's their right to be, it's their vote, not mine. Same in neighboring countries like Austria, or LePen in France, Orban in Hungary. There is police evidence for all this (Russian money cominig in). We even arrested several traitors and they have been convicted of treason (literally a video of them taking money from Russian diplomat talking about manipulating public opinion for Russia). But they have won already, soon the government will change and we will become next Hungary. So I wouldn't call US investments and sponsorit favorable politicial campaigns in Europe after WWII a regime change or anything truly evil. I respect free will and agency of the voters, I don't consider them children or stupid.
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@webcaveman4534 You: "Edvard Benes had his hand twisted by the UK to give Hitler the Sudetenland."
-- Edvard Benes decided nothing. UK, France and Germany/Hitler made an agreement (Munich pact) and Hitler took over everything. We (Czechoslovakia) had absolutely no say in it. And Czechoslovakia had an alliance with France, but it didn't matter (reminds me of Budapest memorandum from 1994 and as it didn't matter in 2014 and it doesn't matter now ... I no longer believe in any written alliances or pacts - when it comes to war, paper is worthless). You could say that UK and France betrayed Czechoslovakia in 1938 - throwing us as a sacrifice to calm down Hitler and avoid war. Which is what happened with Crimea in 2014 and is happening now with people who want to sacrifice Ukraine in hopes that Russia will stop with Ukraine and leave them alone (Hitler didn't stop, Putin will not stop, no conqueror ever stops with one country, it is incredibly naive and foolish to think you can appease a dictator). Well UK and France got punished for this 1 year later. Churchill knew this immediatelly, he said to Chamberlain that famous quote "You had a choice between dishonor and war. You chose dishonor. So you will have dishonor and war." And he was right. Same with Ukraine today. History repeats because most people don't learn from it. ... Czechoslovaks in 1938 might have felt betrayed by the west and maybe thinking of Russia to save them... how ironic as Russia was about to sign alliance with the Nazi Germany to carve out Europe between their two empires. Which was very obvious to Czechoslovaks once the war started. So this turn from the west and toward Russia was extremely short lived.
-- Absolutely disagree that Motolov-Ribbentrop happened only because Russia wanted to somehow stop Hitler. Part of that alliance was a clause where they agreed on demarcation lines which part of Europe will belong to Russia/USSR and which will belong to Nazi Germany. Part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was that USSR will invade Poland, Romania, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland. This was approved by the Nazi Germany. Stalin had huge imperial ambitions, same as Hitler. You make him look like a nice guy who wanted to defeat the Nazis - he was the one supporting them. (Stalin didn't even belive the news of Hitler's betrayal and invasion of USSR the first hours - he just trusted Hitler that much... so much for the image of "anti Nazi" fighter Stalin).
Then there is this. USSR supplied the following to Nazi Germany in 1939-1941:
- 1 500 000 tons of wheat
- 820 000 tons of crude oil
- 180 000 tons of cotton
- 130 000 tons of Manganese
- 180 000 tons of Phosphates
- 18 000 tons of Chromium
- 16 000 tons of Rubber
- 91 000 tons of Soy
- 450 000 tons of Iron ore
- 270 000 tons of Iron
- 200 tons of Platinum
Fueling the Nazis/Hitler against UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway. Few years later UK sending very large amounts of weapons, vehicles and aid to USSR to help them against the Nazis.
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@webcaveman4534 You: "China invaded Korea in 1950 because they saw the US as getting too close to their border in their invasion of Korea."
-- Do you also believe that US invaded Iraq in 2003 because of WMDs? Or Afghanistan in 2001 because of 9/11? Or Vietnam because US was attacked in the gulf of Tonkin? Or Cuba because they wanted to save democracy? … No, of course you don't believe that. So please don't be naïve that China invaded Korea or Vietnam for any other purpose than imperial expansion. Same with Russia and Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine and 40 other countries that I've posted here already - all invaded by Russia because of single reason - imperial expansion. Same as every other empire, including USA and China. Of course everyone has their perfect excuses, even Hitler had his, for every invasion he made - a perfect excuse, because it costs nothing. Same with China and invasion of Korea.
You: "Now, Russia basically did the same thing in Ukraine"
-- 100% Russian imperial expansion and reclaiming of their former colonies. I recommend watching Russian state TV (I understand the language but I am sure you can find English translations everywhere), they are now openly talking about it. Ukraine doesn't exist, it's not a real country, it belongs to Russian Empire and they are rebuilding Soviet/Russian Empire to be great again (exactly like Hitler, except he was competent). Just watch Russian state TV, the mask is off already, they don't care anymore.
You: "the original term Special Military Occupation was a delusional Russian dream that they would cause Ukraine to surrender and switch sides to topple their own government, like the Dutch Republic did to Great Britain in 1688"
-- To be honest and self-critical, I know Ukraine well, and even I expect it to fall within 2 weeks. I was calling all my friends to get them out, to get their families out as fast as possible, not to wait. I was very very wrong. But to be fair, even most Ukrainians I know were shocked themselves how they were able to defend against Russia, that everyone just didn't run away the first 3 days. Now they have a newfound national unity and courage (Russia helped them in this tremendously by invading them - I have never seen Ukrainians be so proud of their country as now, not even close, not even in my dreams … Russia just solidified them as a strong distinct nationality). So I understand why Russians think they will just break Ukraine in 3 days and conquer all of it in 2 weeks (they expected something like Afghanistan 2021, corrupt president fleeing the country with 6 helicopters full of gold and valuables at the first sign of trouble). But in typical Russian endless arrogance, they didn't have any plan B. They were 100% confident they will break Ukraine easily. I would have created alternative plans for every situation, wars are unpredictable, but not Russians.
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@webcaveman4534 You: "Lastly, I agree with the anti-Russian and anti-Chinese critiques. I believe they are imperial in intent, although they were much more so in the 20th century and have now been partially reformed, which is not enough."
-- That is of course true, but I don’t compare them to how they were 80 years ago, I compare them to 21st century standards and how much less imperialist is Western Europe and even USA. I have a feeling like Russia, China and especially North Korea are stuck in time. They still think the same way the whole world thought in 1940s. It is apparent on how they do things (old school, typical communist paperwork, way of talking (I recognize it all too well), how they carry themselves, by the stupid hats and uniforms, by the 1970s phones in Putin's office, and 1000 other small things that scream "stuck in time"), and of course most importantly of all - how they view world politics. Putin absolutely doesn't believe there is real freedom or democracy in the western world, he thinks it's just a cover to look nice, but in reality everything is decided by these "mafia bosses" and backstage deals and bribes - where big countries decide everything and small countries have no say. You can see this from his reactions to western politicians… he doesn't understand. He is so incredibly cynical and stuck in the 20th century that he doesn't understand that world has changed and that democracy and most of all freedom are not just some fake fronts - they are real (for the most part). And even in war tactics and technology you see how stuck in the past they are. Russia didn't even have any drones at the beginning of the invasion. They just pour in untrained forced conscripts with absolute minimum equipment and tell them it is greatest honor of their life to die for the motherland (Solovyov said this on state TV openly). A classic Stalin! Stuck in the past.
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@webcaveman4534 You: "Also I would personally favor better relations with Japan (if I were a hypothetical Korean or Taiwanese voter), but I would not expect everyone in my country to think the same way. This is why a lot of people in these countries end up being slightly anti-American, as they see them as pushing them towards Japan (all for anti-China purposes)."
-- I have personal experience with this. When I was living in Taiwan (shortly) I asked many different people about China (I talk to strangers a lot when I am abroad, just curious). Their answers were very simple and logical.
1) I want peace, I just want to be left alone
2) I don’t want to be part of China in any way (logically, they have 2-3x higher standard of living than China + they have 100% true democracy, China doesn't, they have true freedom, China doesn't, who wants to give up freedom, democracy, standard of living? Nobody … exactly the same with Ukraine, except they are poor now, but have a vision of good standard of living for their children after they join the EU, as opposed to poverty, no democracy and no freedom when colonized by Russia AGAIN - they still remember it)
3) They saw what happened to Hong Kong - when 1 country 2 systems was promised for 50 years and then China just broke their contract and started with the repression and even half of Hong Kong in the street as demonstration didn't help at all. Taiwanese are not blind - they saw this and know any promise from the Chinese Communist Party is worth NOTHING.
This is what they told me. I have not met a single person there who wanted to be part of China. (I know there are 2% in the population, I didn't meet any). It's really not difficult to understand why - people just want good standard of living, freedom and democracy (because without it you will lose the first two very quickly). Taiwan is their land, they were born there, they lived their entire lives there, they have their home there - it is their and only their decision where they want to belong. China has absolutely no say in it.
And if USA promises to protect them (and is realistically the only country in the world capable of doing it), then they will ally with USA. Exactly the same as here in Central and Eastern Europe. We don't have illusions about USA. But it is the only force in this world that can protect us from Russia, and we KNOW we need it, so we allied with USA and we understand that protection is not free. If China and Russia didn't constantly threaten everyone around them, USA would be a lot less popular, NATO would be half the size, maybe even gone completely. NATO and allying with USA is the necessity forced on us by Russia and China.
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@webcaveman4534 You: "So you are probably right for Slovakia but some Czechs may say different (their Communist party was much more powerful and as late as 2013 was quite strong)."
-- I can explain this (obviously). Czech Communist Party is just for very old people who have been brainwashed by Russia/Moscow/Communists since early childhood (it was mandatory, non-stop propaganda for everyone). Some people resisted (like me, my mother) some people got completely brainwashed (like my father, otherwise a good man). This brainwashing cannot be undone - it is for life (similar like religion is impressed on children and then they cannot choose freely for the rest of their lives… Stalin / Russia worship / Communism was just another form of religion). Many of these old people are still alive and some of them vote Communist and will always vote that way. Their decline is 2013 in Czechia has been due to morbid reason of their voter base just dying of old age. But right now after the full scale invasion, 80% of Czechs are against Russia while only 50% of Slovaks (unfortunately, we let completely unrestrained Russian propaganda convert 50% of our population… we realized too late it was a serious problem… too late now, elections are next month and politicians paid by Moscow openly are projected to win … I don't even want to see what will happen next… we will become same thing as Hungary/Orban)
Regarding the Czech/Slovak split, my grandparents from both sides hated both Germans and Russians very very much. The split was true at that time (right after the war), because Czechs have 1000 year history with Germans (good and bad) while Slovakia has been occupied for 1000 years by Hungary. Russians were hated by everyone - they came, stole everything, raped, confiscated all the farms, sent people to labor camps, shot many people (like I said, including my extended family and grand-grandfather) and then started drastically reforming the country. They took everything from every farmer, craftsman, every factory, every business, everything was taken (you can imagine how that makes people feel) and then publicly executed many for being "aristocracy" (if you owned anything more than minimum) and oppressor of the masses. Closed the borders, so nobody can leave and forced everyone into a government job (at least you had a choice which one, when possible). You can imagine how this would very quickly lead to hatred of Russia. So don't look at 1946, look at 1953 (which you will not find of course, because democracy didn't exist anymore).
Also while I was living in Asia I did not understand the relationship between Korea, Japan and Taiwan. I understand the invasions and atrocities, but it's been 3 full generations. We here don't hate Hungarians (even after 1000 years) and Czechs don't hate Austrians or Germans. They have all changed - and the new generation is peaceful and friendly. (Russians had a chance for exactly the same… but NO, they had to revert back to Stalin, they have not changed at all) So I don't understand why Korea and Taiwan cannot forgive Japan (which is obviously transformed and peaceful). Is there anything I am missing?
You: "Overall, I don’t see us having too much conflict in terms of opinion. I understand your point of view, and I hope you understand mine."
-- You are very educated on the matter (I am not as much, especially history) and you try to be objective. I appreciate that. I think I understand your point of view and I agree with your morals and values. I just think we have different life experiences, so we don't agree on the conclusions (I imagine you don't want to "destroy Russia as a country").
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@miaorenfeng1 You: "What you are describing does not fit at all with China. In China you can leave the country at will as long as you haven't committed a crime and aren't wanted. There is also no mandatory work, unless you are a prisoner in jail. It's your personal freedom to find a job or not, the government doesn't interfere, but the government does encourage you to find a job."
-- I know, because China is not really a communist country. I was born in communist Czechoslovakia, and we had everything I described (which is not in China, I know) and on top of that it was illegal to have a business - all businesses were forcibly confiscated by the communist government (and many of the onwers were killed as "oppressors", including some of my family). Also government provided flats (apartments) to young people (communism) and healthcare (shitty) was free, education was free, pensions were for every elderly. China has none of that, it is not really a communist country, only in name. But it is a totalitarian dictatorship. Citizens cannot vote for their supreme leader ("president"), or anyone in the top of government. They have no democratic voting rights. Also their freedoms are limited (somewhat, there are far worse countries like North Korea when it comes to freedom, I admit that). I wouldn't say living in China is hell ... but I wouldn't want it. I like my freedom and ability to choose my politicians. I am just explaining why Taiwanese do not want to join, that's all. Other than that, I don't care what Chinese do inside China, it's not for me to tell them how to run their own country. It's not my country.
You: "The other day I saw a video about Eastern Europe and the standard of living in most Eastern European countries is not even as good as in the poor western part of China."
-- I've seen poverty in rural China. Not cities, but in the villages - it was huge huge contrast to the cities. But it's ok, most countries have problems with that. I lived in the Philippines for 2 years (also in Taiwan for a while) and I moved to live in the poorest region. Yes, Philippines are very poor, but I love that country so much. It's my second homeland. I love the people. I don't make fun of someone because his country is poor. Also Ukraine is the poorest in all of Europe, but I love them, I've been there many times, have many friends including my best friend.
You: "China's democracy is not a western style democracy, western democracy is just a game for the rich and is perfect for the US to install puppets . Because the U.S. can provide money, media, intelligence, contacts, and other resources to support candidates who will serve the interests of the U.S. when they come to power."
-- Is that what they tell you about my country? Because here in Slovakia we have 50 political parties (for 5 million people) and non-stop new political parties are formed and old ones die, constantly. You can start your own party and if you work really hard you can get to parliament or maybe even part of the government. Half of our political parties talk shit about USA, and it is obviously allowed and they can even win elections sometimes and lead the country. We are in EU and NATO and USA is not controlling our politics, they really don't care about us at all. ... So it is a myth that we are some US puppet. That's not how it works here.
You: "For example, in the case of Samsung in South Korea, in terms of ordinary shares, the proportion of foreign investors is as high as 55%, most of which is American capital, mainly from the many financial consortia on Wall Street in the United States; the proportion of major shareholders and affiliates reaches 21%, and the proportion of shares held by investors in South Korea is 19%. U.S. capital accounted for half of the common shares."
-- But that's normal. If you want foreign investors (most countries do, entire Chinese success was built on foreing investments in the past 30 years... even Chinese government is now promoting to invest in China - right now). So then the logical consequences are that foreign companies investing in that country will want that money back + fat profits. They are not charity, they are investors. Same way China invests in Africa, it's not for charity, it's to get fat profits back. That's normal.
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@ArawnOfAnnwn You were reacting to my: ""Never underestimate the suicidal irrationality of dictators""
-- You completely misunderstood my statement. If you think any war of USA, Russia or China since WWII was self defense then you are naive. Not a single one, of any of these three countries, only a naive person that eats their excuses for breakfast can believe that. Every single one of them is imperial expansion. When I said that never underestimate the suicidal irrationality of dictators I didn't mean "irrational aggression that cannot be justified as self defese" (no invasion can ever be justified as self sefense - it is written in the founding documents of United Nations of Geneva Conventions and it is morally indefensible, EVER), what I meant was that Russia will be completely destroyed by this war. 10 years from now, Russia will no longer exist as a state. West and allies are 67% of the world economy, Russia is little bit above 1%. NATO is 1 billion people, Russia is 0.14 billion. NATO spends 24x more on military than Russia and 240x more than Ukraine (Russia has serious problems fighting 1 Ukraine, now imagine fighting 240 Ukraines at the same time). NATO has 22000 military aircraft. Some people don't understand how absurdly one-sided NATO vs Russia is. These are just hard factual numbers. The West just sent 0.2% of GDP as military aid to Ukraine. Would you like to see the remaining 99.8%? This is what I meant - invading Ukraine was idiotic suicidal move from Russia, but never underestimate the suicidal irrationality of dictators. Xi Jinping might do exactly the same by invading Taiwan, and it will be his personal end and that of China as we know it today. But he will do it anyway (can't stop himself from talking constantly about how he is going to invade Taiwan).
You: "hell your 'last 30 years' list is almost entirely repetition"
-- Because those countries were invaded multiple times by Russia in the past 100 years. Learn history. It's all publicly available and there are still millions of witnesses over here for the past 50 years (including myself). How old are you son? You seem like edgy American teenager or someone in his 20s who just read some posts on social media and now is an expert. Buy a flight ticket, come here, talk to old people, you will find out what really happened. Any random old person will tell you, because we all had to live through it, It's not some ancient history.
You started your list with Angola, Argentina - there were no US invasions of those countries. What I sent you is a list of countries DIRECTLY invaded by Russia and in many cases brutalized, conquered, annexed and in many cases local population deported to far east. I am not talking about some covert support for a dictator or a coup, I am talking about brutal invasions and annexations of territory or wholesale military destruction. Now make that list for USA for the past 100 years. You don't understand the difference, you have never been under Russian boot, they haven't killed your family and destroyed your country. You have very romantic perception of it all.
You: "At least Russia says it's protecting itself"
-- You cannot be serious son. Invading your neighbor, killing half his children and annexing his house is "protecting yourself"? If you invade every neighbor your have and every neighbor they have to colonize and annex everything around you that is not "self defense", that is agressive imperialist colonial expansion - only you don't have ships, you do it over land, result is the same. Tens of millions died in the process. Entire ethnicities wiped out of existence. You cannot possibly be serious trying to defend it. Go look into a mirror and think what kind of person have you become. We are finished here.
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