Comments by "Kim O\x27Brien" (@kimobrien.) on "Baker at center of SCOTUS gay wedding cake case speaks out" video.

  1. I support the couples steam roll the baker on his ground.
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  2. Right and he can make a wedding cake, hire someone else to do it, or contract it out. Turning men and women away hungry for wedding cake must be against biblical teaching somewhere.
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  3. Why not punish him even more by picketing his store which he also complained about.
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  4. Where in the constitution does it say that you have a right to impose your religion on others after opening a limited liability corporation as a privilege granted by congress and the states?
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  5. It really doesn't matter whether Jack Phillips is successful or unsuccessful with imposing his views. The court needs to only reject masterpiece cake shops appeal by denying religious rights to for profit corporations. When was the last time you saw Exxon taking communion wafers at mass?
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  6. Yes and when murder is legalized we will all be able to kill each other with all kinds of weapons legally purchased at Walmart, Amazon and Sears.
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  7. Public accommodation laws were written and enforced because business refused to serve people because of race or other reasons. The Supreme court found them legal on a national level when they ruled the 1965 civil rights act constitutional. Given that 21 states have added sexual orientation to their state laws it seems hard to make the case that states can't have and enforce such a law.
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  8. You need to explain how a custom cake is different than a meal that requires custom cooking when a same sex couple celebrates their anniversary? Would business want to put up signs saying our religion forbids serving same sex couples? Maybe they'd be happier putting up signs like Interstate buses have. "Seating aboard vehicles operated in Interstate or foreign commerce is without regard to race, color, creed, or national origin." 'Cakes made in this shop are produced without regard to sexual orientation."
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  9. Orthodox Christians and Protestant Christians are just categories of Christians who can't even agree on when Easter is. The Catholics are ruled by the Pope and his decisions concerning Church dogma. I don't know what sect he belongs to but if he had up a sign saying I serve _____________ Christians only he would have a very strong case but fewer buyers of cupcakes, birthday cakes, and wedding cakes. He did offer to make a dog wedding cake but I'm not sure which religion marries dogs?
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  10. His statement was, "I don't make cakes for same sex weddings." The decorations were not discussed.
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  11. I completely disagree. All you have to do is understand the difference between a person (a natural person) and a corporate entity (a fictitious person). Requiring a natural person to complete or make a contract can be considered slavery while requiring a corporate one under pain of asset forfeiture can not. Masterpiece cakeshop was offered a compromise of having either another worker without managements religious views make the cake or have an outside contractor do it. Jack Phillips as the owner refused. At best Jack Phillips the owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop would be facilitating the making of a cake celebrating a gay wedding which his religion does not permit. His sale of non religious items makes it clear he is not a single organization for religious items only. Many states also condemned interracial marriage before the Supreme court ruled such laws based in religion unconstitutional. It's not necessary for an item to be on a business's menu for a business to sell it. It is only necessary for a business to provide it. Could someone purchase a simple anniversary cake from Masterpiece cakeshop with two names that appeared to be of the same sex? Suppose the owners of Walmart decided they wouldn't do it either.
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  12. All you provide is an English language lesson concerning the meaning of pronouns. Since the court has already declared same sex marriage legal in all 50 states and territories the overturned law concerning marriage in Colorado law is a moot point. State public accommodation law here is the issue which you seem to find amusing? Maybe the ruling class and idiots like you would be happier with pickets and protesters in front of bigoted store owners? Anecdotally our wedding cake was very modest and simple. Two or there layers with nothing other than our first names, congratulations and a figurine. A little bit more complicated since it was multi layered than what you can buy at Walmart. You wedding or hoped for wedding was or will be one of extravagance and much more elaborate. He said he would not bake on the basis of religion not that he didn't have the proper figurines in stock or didn't want to buy them. If that had been the reason and not his religious views than he had ample time to clear that up at the mediation level. I actually read the briefs supplied to the Supreme court and listened to the oral arguments you obviously did not. Maybe you're a busy school of management professor or business owner or another type of conservative fruit cake without the time. Who knows?
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  13. "Oh, but, there are public accommodation laws" Yes and parking in a no parking zone will also get you ticket if an officer believes that you vehicle is found to be parked illegally. In most states once the legislature writes and passes a law, a governor signs it, an agency then enforces it, then a court will hear a violation of it and make a decision. That is essential how law in the US works. Masterpiece cakeshop has successfully had appeals of the original court decisions heard (not all appeals are heard) but has also lost each appeal now going for the last appeal on this theory of a corporation having the religious rights of its owner and his pretending to be a baker and not the owner of a bakery.
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  14. He said he didn't make cakes for same sex weddings obviously that means they were either gay or lesbians being married. I merely wanted to make the anecdotal case that a wedding cake need not be that complicated such that it becomes a recognized work of art. Since he refused to make any custom cake for them he couldn't know how complicated it would be. Go to Walmart or a grocery store, buy a bakery made cake and the will customize it with a names and happy birthday or names and happy anniversary or virtually anything you want and will fit on the cake. He does not make Halloween Cakes? Not the issue here because he's not being sued by Satanists. In the brief written by the ACLU lawyers he also refused to sell cupcakes to be used in a lesbian commitment ceremony and did offer to sell a cake for a dog wedding. Certainly a person so religiously dedicated to faith and marriage as something only possible between a man and women would not facilitate and degrade such a ceremony by celebrating sex between dogs as a marriage. Then again no one can force a fool to eat from the tree of knowledge.
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  15. Thats not the question being decided it is not can Phillips be compelled to make a cake its his company. Masterpiece cakeshop is on trial here not Jack Phillips the owner. Explain why Masterpiece cakeshop should be allowed to claim a religion. Why not let GE be catholic and GM be protestant? Cars and Jet engines take much more engineering than a wedding cake.
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  16. Look the court almost never challenges religious belief if you say that's what you believe they take it as good coin. This comes on the heals of the bad 5-4 Hobby Lobby decision where they said a closely held company claiming the owers religious belief could be excused from providing birth control under Obama care. If that wasn't a case of religious tyranny and corporate power being exercised over employees I don't what is. We recognize corporations as fictitious people but they don't have all the rights of natural persons.They are slaves to their owners despite the 13th Amendment , they can't vote in elections, or serve on Juries. Do they need lobbyists and input in Congress? Yes they do because lobbying will prevent lawyers from passing laws for doing something like requiring water burning cars or over unity generators. The other thing is Jack Phillips declined for his company as whole and continues that position. The question of what the cake would be or look like was never even discussed. He also refused to provide cupcakes for a lesbian commitment ceremony. Now the court cannot rule on his religious beliefs but he did offer to make a dog wedding cake. The court has already and correctly recognized that a company deliberately assigning a worker to knowing do something against their religious belief when other employees could do it then and firing them for it is illegal. Why don't we just call in King Solomon cut Jack in half and his employee half doesn't have to make the cake while his owner half must supervise.
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  17. What I'd like to know, given that American law works by precedent how do you want to draw the line without either opening a gaping hole in public accommodation law or making it a personal decision for Jack Phillips only?
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  18. He has already revealed that he doesn't make all the wedding cakes. So yes in this case King Solomon can cut him in half by Masterpiece cakeshop having either another employee or an outside contractor without his belief make the cake. I believe he was offered that as a solution to his deeply held belief but refused. What the religious belief is concerning dog marriage is irrelevant. Dogs aren't protected by public accommodation laws they apply to human beings only. So is his complaint that he couldn't get a cake made with a slogan against gay marriage. If he had said I want a cake because I am getting married and I want a different sex marriage cake that would be equivalent. Someone might think he was kinky though. There aren't any laws or court cases concerning free speech cake until this one came along. If my wife Deb goes in and wants a cake that says happy anniversary Kim and Deb would he make that? After all my legal name is Kim but my name stems from Kimball and I am male. Do you think he'd believe my wife? After all she could be lesbian wanting to eat his cakes. (Kinky!) Years ago they often checked your credit card and said sorry you can't use your wife's card, I had to constantly take out ID and even today if I meet someone new they say oh Tim or Jim. Do you really think it's a lot fun to be constantly challenged like that? I meet four new people today alone.
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  19. He was offered as a compromise to have other employees bake the wedding cake for same sex couples or contract out the wedding cakes for same sex couples. Both options of which he refused. Instead he decided to make a federal case out of it.
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  20. No church is forced into marrying anyone in the US. It's some Churches and their members that are making a stink about this because marriage under the law now means that same sex marriage partners get equal rights in the civil area like inheritance, adoption and other areas that are secular in nature. The see and fear that religion is losing its hold on people so they are looking for ways to keep themselves entrenched in civic life.
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  21. Look people in Europe once believed that the earth was flat and the sun circled the earth. I'm not going to try and argue that the big bang theory is right because I don't have the education to do that. It is relatively easy to argue against many things in the book of Genesis. How did people get the idea that the earth was round or at least curved? Well ships leaving port that heading out straight from port seemed to get not just smaller but also to sink.
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  22. Every atom in existence at the time of the big bang is wrong. Because that doesn't allow for fission and fusion in nuclear reactors, the sun and nuclear bombs.
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  23. You mean your government of swamp dwellers.
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  24. That's right but the reason this has got the attention it has is by the baker playing the innocent victim. Because his business is small he demands an exception based on his 'work' and has been playing that up. But really he is a boss and only actually made some wedding cakes as a worker. The easiest way to sort this out is to make him either get an employee to make the 'gay' wedding cakes or contract them out to other bakeries. Now do you really believe he wants to put up a sign that says go to XYZ Bakery if you want to buy a wedding cakes for same sex weddings.
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  25. Did he bring a single case against the bakers? No because he believes in "Free Markets" where the bosses rule through their ownership of capital and a corrupt government.
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  26. Also if you watch the Steve Crowder video he confesses that a number of Muslim bakers agreed to his request.
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  27. Well sure Fox News is more than happy to interview Muslim Clerics who use speech to all but declare war to make Fox News's point. If Muslims were united in driving out the infidel they could quickly create a Muslim only area stretching from Morocco in North West Africa to Pakistan in the western Asia after which they could get countries in eastern Asia like Indonesia and Bangladesh. Other than the crazed terrorists the most conservative of Muslims and Islamic ideology is the Saudi ruling class with their Wahabism. Just 3% of Saudi's in a country with a 30% non muslim population.
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  28. Its not necessary to debate and answer fascist gentlemen who view war and genocide as the final solution.
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  29. What ever ruling decided in this instance will apply in a similar manner to all 'Muslim' Bakers. Plus this baker has not said he will not bake cakes for Muslim, Atheist or Jewish weddings only same sex weddings. He chose to shut down his wedding cake business rather than risk fines and penalties imposed if he loses. So far he has lost every appeal.
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  30. Actually not see the law does not protect bad manners and making insult cakes. I'd of course make them for you but insist on getting paid in advance. I wouldn't want to guarantee the ugliness involved.
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  31. No it is different because he is running a business not looking for a job.
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  32. Steve Crowder did not bring a case against a Muslim bakery because he believed in their right to refuse service. He also found that not all Muslim bakers refused service nor is a Muslim bakery on trial but why not listen to the actual video. Many of them were kind to serve us. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgWIhYAtan4 at about 2:25. Should a bakery be able to refuse an interracial couple a marriage cake as being a practice not a personal refusal? All this is in tune with the libertarian theory that free markets are best and solve every problem when the capitalist doesn't have to obey laws his own government passes.
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  33. I have to side with the worker over the boss to do otherwise would violate my principles as a communist.
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  34. You are going to find out that he will have the same rights that Lester Maddox had when he closed down his cafeteria.
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  35. The baker was offered a compromise of having an employee without his beliefs make the same sex wedding cakes or contracting them out. He refused preferring to appeal.
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  36. Having a limited liability corporation is a privilege not a right. You pay taxes and have to follow the rules your bought and paid for professional politicians tell you to do. The state did not force him to close. He and his backers knew this was a long shoot from the beginning and a loss that could not be appealed would subject to him to large penalties for continued discrimination. Plus to keep up the facade of the victim and just a poor baker it helps to stop making all wedding cakes. What you want to bet he's making more money doing this than ever before with his backers paying him.
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  37. Everyone knows that business requires capital risk unless you're to big to fail. If he wants to operate as a religious organization than he has that option including the right to be free from taxes. How can you do both? I quote Jack Phillips himself that Jesus said a man can not have two masters. So either he has to operate in the secular business world or operate in the tax free religious world. Corporations large and small are dictated to by decisions made by corrupt capitalist politicians everyday. Car companies can not ignore pollution laws. Manufacturing companies can not just through things like waste oil on the ground or into streams and rivers. Companies large and small must post minimum wage and EEO Act posters. Does that mean the company owners like those laws? You don't like Karl Marx and think he is responsible? The man has been dead for over a hundred years now with only his writings remaining. So he must be still making a big impression on people otherwise he wouldn't be so well known..
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  38. "The issue is government overreach in the private sector," The "private sector" make its influence on government through the two corrupt capitalist parties. However money can't buy truth and that prevents total bourgeois control. A government with total Bourgeois class interest control is a dictatorship because the largest class the working class who's interests are diametrically opposed would be completely ignored. This would make the dictatorship of capital ripe and open for revolutionary change.
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  39. This whole argument is about the greedy capitalist refusing out right to make any wedding cake for a same sex couple. Do it and we will stop complaining about it. Simple enough!!!
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  40. Standard cakes without even Walmart customization like Happy Anniversary Jim and Joe. Tell us another lie. Look I'm sick of debating another libertarian who believes like a Catholic dogma free market capitalism solves every problem on the planet if only we had free market capitalism. Face it I'm not easily confused because I have an understanding of how capitalism works in both theory and with experience. There is a reason Marx wrote Das Kapital and not Das Socialista.
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  41. Exactly!!!
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  42. He isn't bowing to anything he is worshiping a golden calf and acting as a pharaoh would.
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  43. He had a choice. Compromise, Close the secular and profitable section of the business or Close the religious section of the business. He chose to keep the secular part open and close the religious section.
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  44. You now they're losing when they have to resort to insults and generalizations that are meaningless.
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  45. Actually one need only read the book of Genesis to see that the bible and religion is on the losing side But go ahead and convince yourself other wise because after the first split between Eastern Orthodox, and then Roman Catholicism and then the Protestant reformation plenty has changed and more has been disagreed about.
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  46. Well he could have compromised anytime before losing all appeals so far.
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  47. Baking gay wedding cakes is a threat to who? i guess if he bakes really good cakes everyone will be going gay!!!
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  48. You're all for heterosexuality until your neighbor comes over and screws you wife.
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  49. We'll if he actually is an artist than he deserves an exemption. But the fact that he points to having lost 40 % of his business and has let go half of his employees indicates that if anything his employees are the artists and not him. If all that happens is going through a book of previous designs and he offers a mixture of pre made art with the only change being to replace Jane with Jim on the cake than that is not an artistic change but merely a simple change of custom content that any cake buyer would request. If they asked for him to create something new and special like two men holding hands than there he may have a case.
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  50. And now you're making a scene!!
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