Comments by "Kim O\x27Brien" (@kimobrien.) on "Supreme Court to rule on gay wedding cake case" video.

  1. It's become a case of public accommodations law. It's much like Lester Maddox refusing service to Black people in his restaurant. Each side obviously has more than just them paying for the lawyers. The court usually rules in a narrow manner against opening the floodgates of more litigation.
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  2. Because the government enacted laws to prevent business from discriminating against people of color after sit-in protests against the refusal of by Woolworth's Five and Dime to serve black customers at lunch counters.
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  3. No wedding cakes for Black People made by religious bigots either. Minister Farrakhan will be happy to take your business though. Are you sure you want a Klan revival based upon the religious believes of the White Citizen's council?
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  4. You killed Iraqi's because you were told to. You didn't bring us any freedom. Just because the government called it Iraqi freedom. If anything your thinking shows just the opposite. Any fool can pull a trigger. Your a confirmation of that. When your in business you have an obligation to serve all with respect. The first words out of this mans mouth was that he did not provide baked good for same sex weddings. He wasn't asked to do anything special and his refusal would not be a promotion of gay marriage because the cake is eaten after the wedding so he would not be facilitating the marriage. If you asked for a cake for a military marriage and were out rightly refused service how would you feel about that?
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  5. No he refused to bake them a custom wedding cake outright based upon it being for a same sex wedding. The questions of gay or other symbols never entered the conversation. He later claimed this as a religious right for the company he owned Masterpiece cakeshop to refuse gay customers request for custom wedding cakes. He refused any compromise of having an employee without his views or an outside contractor do the baking of wedding cakes for same sex couples.
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  6. What premise is that? A statement that "I don't do gay."
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  7. After reading the beginnings of the briefs and responses. "Phillips refused to serve them, explaining that the Company had a policy of refusing to sell baked goods for weddings of same-sex couples." He did not offer anything else at that time. Only later after the State became involved did he offer to sell a nondescript cake. That only shows that while backing down the nondescript cake could be just that a cake period. It seems to me that rather then compelled speech this is a refusal to serve based on bias. If a different sex couple came in and bought a wedding cake without telling him it was really for a same sex couple what then? i think if anything he is a skilled cake baker and not a cake artist. He wasn't asked to provide anything special yet he immediately refused service.
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  8. They didn't ask for a theme cake. He just refused them service saying his company policy was that he did not provide bake goods for same sex weddings. At mediation he offered a nondescript cake. So I say he lacks principles and is trying to get a decision that he is an artist that would be forced to make art and not a master cake baker. He didn't tell the buyers he was an artist apparently this was something he thought up or was advised of later.
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  9. Every time a terrorist hollars Allah Akbar he drives away the believer and any sympathy a terrorist might have. People protesting the use of their religion (Islam) as a reason for terrorism is the first step to rejecting religion altogether.
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  10. Business have to follow rules like everyone else. The slogan free markets is just that sloganeering. Just because you own a business doesn't make you better than everyone else.
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  11. It doesn't because Jack Phillips is just a cakeshop boss. His company, masterpiece cakeshop is on trial not him personally. No one except his ardent followers see how even a court dominated by conservative justices can give him a win without ether saying the states have no rights to place sexual orientation on a list of protected classes or overturning the constitutionality of the 1965 civil rights act where religion is concerned. His lawyers living in a maked up fantasy world think if the court ruled that the right to assemble includes the right to choose who will speak at the assembly that by turning this upside down the assembly (wedding) can not force his cakes to speak at the wedding. His lawyer in oral arguments before the court was ill prepared to answer questions such as what about other foods and artisans at weddings. Nor could she explain what wedding cakes say and how that would be forcing him to speak on the subject of same sex marriage. He was given a way out of this legal corundum by having either having another worker without his views make the cakes or contract it out both compromises he refused.
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  12. Once again they asked for a custom wedding cake not a custom gay wedding cake. They didn't ask for sunblock for white skin either. A custom wedding cake made by a baker's skill not bakers art. Artwork has to be something new and unique. You can't be expected to get something not in his book of designs. That would require art or engineering. He didn't advertise as a wedding cake engineer even if he did not all engineering problems are necessarily solvable. He did advertise as a custom wedding cake baker.
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  13. Sure there is. Other cases came to the court claiming interracial marriage was a reason to deny public accommodation based upon religious belief. They also lost.
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  14. If he doesn't want to sell cakes to gays then maybe he should open a business selling auto parts as long as he doesn't have a problem with women drivers.
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  15. It seems to me he would have to show he is an artist and only his art could produce a cake. He claims that he had to stop his wedding cake business and he had lost half his business and laid off five workers. That seems to point to him being the manager and not the cake maker. He may have started his business before gay marriage but once that became true he should have known that eventually he would end up with this kind of problem.
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  16. The couple is also involved by being represented by the ACLU and Masterpiece bakeshop is being represented by Alliance Defending Freedom. This is not just a small case but one with heavy hitters involved. So far the baker has had every appeal heard and every appeal rejected. Plus he was offered a compromise which he rejected.
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  17. Oh but so called nice White Christians tried claiming a religious exceptions to those public accommodation laws. The court rejected those claims.
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  18. The Democrats wanted an end to reconstruction and the Republicans gave them that in the Hayes Tilden compromise of 1877. While the Democrats created the KKK it was the Republicans that allowed such a force of counterrevolution to be organized. That makes both parties responsible for Jim Crow. The correct thing to do is organize a new party based in the working class along with a new militant labor movement. That is what the Socialist Workers Party wants to do. Go independent of both capitalist parties.
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  19. What's really going on here is the right of a for profit corp. being able to claim to have a religion outside of the exception for those companies involved in core religious activity only. Phillips pretends to be a worker when really he's a boss. This is a way to win sympathy for his attack on public accommodation rights.
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  20. He just refused them outright which is why he will probably lose. If the person wanted a cake with a hunter theme you could be refused if you can't or won't do a special theme. Had they asked for a gay theme than he could refuse but refusing to sell a cake in itself would not qualify.
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  21. The man offers to make custom wedding cakes he refused to make any cake saying he does not make wedding cakes for same sex weddings after about 20 seconds. His claim is that he doesn't want to make custom gay wedding cakes because it would be sending a message of approval. The offered him compromises where he could have a worker without his religious beliefs do gay wedding cakes or contract out gay wedding cakes. He refused. Instead he and his attorneys with an anti gay rights organization Alliance Defending Freedom have appealed all the way to the supreme court losing in every appellate court so far. He refused to sell wedding cakes to at least five couples and cupcakes to two women who wanted to celebrate their anniversary. The called him and asked if he would sell a wedding cake for a dog wedding which he found no problem with. The man is obviously a bigot hiding behind religious belief.
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  22. Buying any pre-made cake is like telling them they can ride in the back of the bus. You can go to Walmart and buy a cake with a message like 'Happy Anniversary John and James' but not from Masterpiece Cakeshop. He's not being asked to create an offensive message swastika cake or even a clearly gay cake since he refuses to produce any cake whatsoever for a gay wedding.
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  23. Islam will decline the same way Christianity has because the fighting between different sects guarantees its ultimate decline. The more the Sunnis fight with the Shiites the better the case of the unbeliever. Islam is nothing more then another flavor of the opiate of the people anyway. The wahhabist are only 3% of Saudi Arabia and the Saudi ruling class' is officially wahhabists and sitting on a social powder keg. Like the rest of the world Saudi Arabia has been dragged into the modern capitalist world. Huge numbers of working class people operate the oil and petrochemical plants in Saudi Arabia. Thirty percent of the country is non-muslim immigrants. How long before they go into motion, demanding religious and political freedom and start making their mark on history.
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  24. It's only a matter of time before the Saudi rulers and the center of Islam goes under and they take strict Islam with them. It will become like Christianity in the West something you do once a week out of tradition and even then less and less relevant to people's everyday lives. No more getting out the prayer rugs five times a day and listening for the call to prayer. It will be nothing but another ho hum religion that no one really cares about. The Islamic State of Iran is under mass protest now. Doesn't look good for the Islamic hardliners in Tehran. The masses are angry about the money wasted on Hezbollah and other Shiite Militia.
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  25. Ireland was once one of the most strictly Catholic Countries in Europe when it first broke with the UK. The Church had its hands in everything. Now their voting on not removing some restrictions on abortion which they already done but on removing all restrictions on abortion.
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  26. Right the Saudi rulers will go all liberal and allow women to drive? Soon the say. Once their people get just a taste of freedom they will want more. In the meantime the sale of beards in Riyadh is at an all time high. They had to pull back the religious police because those criminal scoundrels were getting out of hand. If they let them continue cutting heads it would be their heads which would be cut.
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  27. If freedom is hellfire then let me roast in hell.
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  28. No doubt that they did.
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  29. Doesn't make a difference even if they were doing that. He also could have ended it at the mediation level but decided to take it further. The police drive around all day specifically looking for traffic 'law breakers' is that a recognized defense? If the cops weren't driving around I would have been pulled over?
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  30. I remember a Cuban lawyer named Fidel Castro and heard tell of a Russian one named Vladimir Ulyanov (Lenin) Do you think they should interview Fidel's niece Mariela Castro?
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  31. In England that might be true but in the US ordinality the winner in a civil case can't collect legal costs unless the case was frivolous.
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  32. You have no absolute right to practice your religion.
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  33. First off he didn't ask a Muslim baker. Like I said, the two and one of their mothers came into the store and sat down to order a custom wedding cake. He said he didn't make wedding cakes for same sex weddings. At the mediation level he offered to sell a nondescript cake not a custom cake. He has lost every appeal now. His claim is that if he provides a custom cake that would be compelling him to send a message he doesn't agree with. He will most likely lose on that claim because to agree with him would open an enormous religious hole in public accommodation law.
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  34. Most trades create custom products. In the wedding cake business you can ask for all kinds of designs if the company can make them. Just go on line and look at them. If they asked for something he could make for some kind of technical reason fine but he refused to make any custom cake at all.
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  35. Public accommodation law at the state level goes back almost 100 years. On the federal level it was part of the 1965 Civil Rights Act. So no the right to engage in discrimination based on religion was rejected in the 1968 Newman v. Piggy Park Enterprises decision.
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  36. Maybe you should go back and reread or get out the dictionary because describing what fascism is and liking it are two different things. As a bolshevik I am what every fascist hates most. Comparing the IRS to churches? Once again another non sequitur. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/non%20sequitur
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  37. He has a right to refuse entry to police officers based on the 4th Amendment. You will also note that he calls the place the "EAV Barbell Club" a club can decide membership on any base whatsoever. But is it a club or just a business called a club is something I'm not going to argue right now.
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  38. You have the right to practice religion but using religion as a defense to discrimination in the marketplace has been rejected by the supreme court in past decisions.
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  39. The problem here is the baker. The law allows a wide latitude for businesses to make decisions. It does not allow a business to bring in their own prejudices into business decisions. If he's that worried about gays eating wedding cakes than he should just stop selling wedding cakes. Which he has already done. His next step should be to close down all together because gays may be eating other baked goods like donuts.
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  40. Look I've read as much as I can on the case. From what was said to the court he outrightly refused to sell baked goods for a same sex marriage. They had not even said if they wanted a specially designed cake or just a plane cake. It was only later that he offered to sell a nondescript cake at the mediation level. He did not have a sign in the window saying Christian Bakery nor did I read anything about him having a cross on the wall or anything else that would imply a culturally conservative Christian establishment. They didn't ask for a halloween cake or a divorce cake. If he had sat down with them and at certain point said something like well I've never made a cake with two men on it and had explained his feelings he would most likely not be in this position. He should have been prepared for this after the legalization of gay marriage. From what I've read his only real defense is to ask the court to decide that he is an artist and he would not be able to put his artistic expression into something he is personally against. So is he an artist? Or is he just a master cake maker? Plenty of skilled trades require custom creations but electricians, carpenters and plumbers are not considered artists. I can't come and work in your home because I'm an artist who can't work near a gay bedroom not a tradesmen engaging in discrimination? Instead of I only do commercial work or I don't specialize in cabinet making.
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  41. I'm dumb? Or are you just dumb founded?Tell me something what is a steel blank good for besides making WW2 era steel pennies.
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  42. If he showed up in prison as a homophobe that be sure to turn him crooked.
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  43. He out rightly refused service and the cake is usually served in the reception hall after the ceremony not the church. He's not even facilitating the marriage and since he refused all service at first and only later offered a nondescript cake when brought in for mediation. That shows he has no principles except to refuse service as a way of expressing his bigotry not his religion.
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  44. Why would people who don't like service from homosexuals want service form homosexuals? Usually unless someone is a flamer no one knows who really is a homosexual. Since the majority is heterosexual and homosexuals live among us why would homosexuals suddenly decided to engage in discrimination? Only recently have they been allowed to a marry so this guy may have picked cake baking as a business before but just like Lester Maddox he will probably be required to serve or close because he said, "I don't do gay." He probably has already lost business and find people coming in to mock him but he should have thought about that before going all anti gay.
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  45. Well go out and see if you can find a homosexual run business that discriminates against heterosexuals. My suggestions is to get a T-Shirt that says "Love Me I'm Straight". Then see if they refuse you entry into a gay bathhouse. Then bring a case against it. Good luck with that!!! Joe Blow v. Happy Dudes Bathouse The only problem with that is if they let you in.
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  46. You can give him a choice just like Lester Maddox who ran his restaurant either serve or close. He not a worker either he is an employer. So he can't claim to be a wage slave because he's profit chaser that hires wage slaves.
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  47. Custom wedding cakes is a niche business so in rural areas the number of custom wedding cake bakers may be very small meaning the ability to travel a long distance, if a local refuses, for a cake becomes a necessity. Some people may be refusing out of religious convictions and others may be doing it because they think they can and are using religion for an excuse but are really bigots. So how do get into their heads to tell the difference? Those who are engaging for bigoted reasons are most likely to stop their practices if they have to obey the law. The option for the religious is to separate the custom religious wedding cake business from the nonreligious bakery business. For the Christians this should not be that big a problem unless one is worshipping the Golden Calf instead of God.
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  48. The distance argument was recently brought up in a Texas antiabortion case where Texas argued that the ability to travel to New Mexico for an abortion meant that the Texas law wasn't restrictive as based by distance of travel required. That was a recent case that the anti abortion forces lost.
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  49. In case of doctors no one wants a doctor that is forced to do anything since the chances of screwups is high to begin with. The anti abortion people have used shame, threats, and murder to intimidate doctors from performing a simple and legal procedure. They want to open a hole using religion in public accommodation law which will then embolden them to proceed further. The reason for making them comply is those who are sitting on a fence will come over and accept making gay wedding cakes. Just as few would refuse to serve Black people today since it is a done deal. Those who insist on being racist show themselves to be that way and Black people soon find out.
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  50. More people are interested in politics and want to here what the real socialists have to say. The defeat of reformism does not mean that the working class has been pushed of the stage of history. If anything the defeat of swamp candidate Clinton and the choice of the no experience Trump means just the opposite.
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  51. I guess there scary enough because so far every judge has ruled against the bakery. Remember the left only has to be scary enough we don't need to be excessively scary just scarry enough.
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  52. Race remains an issue because of unequal outcomes in terms of criminal justice and economics as a start. Talking about it should help solve the issues as a first step. Recognizing everyone as people and then ignoring unequal outcomes is just like sticking your head in the sand after seeing a difficult road ahead.
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  53. Why unequal outcomes? Part of the reason is like you said people with money get treated differently by the justice system. Economically the Black community as a whole is still in more poverty than other races. If it's like the claim many make that small business accounts for many jobs. Well that requires investment capital which while lots of Black people are in the middle class now they still don't have the property that the other races have. If you start a small business than who are you going to hire first? People you don't know or people in your family and friends. Now my family has changed, I bet others have also and it has nothing to do with liberalism or radicalism. It's just the change of culture in general.
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  54. Did I claim that people just walking down the street are arrested? I'm not that familiar with stop and frisk. But having used a vehicle as part of my job I know that police had broad powers to stop you if they want to. I think the most foolish one was, "You almost went the wrong way up the (freeway) ramp." Does almost count? Anyway I do know he thought I was drinking and driving. He probably thought that because I was at a Pizza parlor which served beer (He was across the street and pretended to be going the other way.) and since I didn't know the area I was slowing at intersections before finally going left. After a lot of questioning including him insisting I had been drinking (which was not true at all) he said well I guess I don't have to write you a ticket.
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  55. You're not going to like my answer to the economic one so I will make it quick and simple, "Abolish Private Property and Class struggle".
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  56. It's not a design question because he refused outright not because he couldn't create a certain design. Plus there is no reason to believe a same sex wedding cake is significantly different than an opposite sex wedding cake. If he was a composer and asked to write a special hymn for the wedding or paint a mural then obviously artistic expression and inspiration is involved. He was given an out when at mediation he was asked to have a worker without his beliefs to make the same sex wedding cakes or contract out gay wedding cakes. He refused both compromises making it into a case where his religious beliefs as expressed by his company outweigh the religious beliefs of customers.
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  57. No that's completely wrong. They came in for a wedding cake not a catering service. His claim is that by providing a custom cake he would be forced into compelled speech. Assuming it was a catering service then how does the food differ? Is their specifically gay food involved? I don't think so. They asked for a wedding cake not a gay wedding cake. If I go to a Jewish Deli on St Patrick's day, ask for a corn beef sandwich and it's on the menu do they get to refuse service? I don't think so. If I come in to his shop and tell him I want a custom cake for an atheist wedding does he get to refuse service because we will be committing sin?
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  58. I looked at the beginning of the papers of the State, and the two sides involved I saw nothing about a catering service involved. You're probably looking at the friend of the court briefs or a question raised by the justices at oral arguments. The Deli could refuse to provide the sandwich by saying we don't make custom sandwiches. Just as McDonald's might refuse to make a 1/2 cheezburger. However at Burger King with them advertising having it your way I should be able to order a 1/2 cheeseburger at the whole cheeseburger price assuming they have a knife to cut it with. Could the Klan have a Black catering service provide food for their party? In general the courts have refused reverse discrimination cases. Plus the Klan of today is a pirah organization. If it got out that they were having a party of any kind they'd be swamped with picketers and protesters. The results of opening a religious exemption in public accommodation laws will be much worse than the possible use by the Klan or others might make of it. Their should be an exemption for artists but then you need to define art. When a painter copies a master's piece like Rembrandt that's skill but not art. When you write a novel that's art but the actual physical book or electronic copy is not except for possibly the front cover picture and the printing font. Now if you get a custom wedding cake based on pictures in a book that's not art but skill. Now if you ask for a message that won't fit on your cake well the cake baker can not do things the physical world prohibits. But changing Jane to John doesn't require artistic inspiration but an established skill. If you demand a NEW frosting picture of two men than as a custom cake baker you can refuse that as requiring the baker to have artistic skills.
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  59. That's the problem in a nutshell. If they rule in his favor based on religion alone then they open the door to letting any religious hate group sympathizing CEO through the door. The second problem is if the rule that he is an artist then they have to define art. But should they define art and it being protected by the first amendment does speech that is also not art get protected elsewhere or do those who oppose free speech get to define it though artistic ability.
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  60.  Troy Goldberg  This couple sought to purchase a wedding cake from a business open to the public not a church or a supplier of goods to a single sect. The couple did not advertise a request for bids to make the cake. Where he could have argued he wasn't interested in bidding. Was it a business that employed no labor outside of family where the owner could argue he could not do the job because of religious belief. It was a business in now way that I can see was any different than Ford Motor Company. The anti semite Henry Ford who Adolf Hitler admired was known for his discriminatory employment of Jews. It has taken many battles by the working people to end discriminatory practices by employers and the bosses in general. So the nine robbed robbers of ruling class justice gave this guy an individual pass for the time being. According to the nine robbers decision on the Supreme court this is a one time thing.
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  61. No, Masterpiece cakeshop would either have a baker without his views do the same sex wedding cakes or have an outside contractor do the work. He decided to shut down his wedding cake business possibly to avoid fines and damages since he hasn't won at any of his appeals so far.
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  62. The decisions made by the court are also affected by what is gong on in society overall. Plus all the federal court judges are all appointed by the president nor is this a Democratic Party only issue there are also Log Cabin Republicans. Despite rhetoric coming from the White House a number of issues that conservatives expected to win have been lost. Judge Roy Moore was clearly a conservative religious rights advocate. Yet he became a problem instead of an asset for both parties. Mooer lost what should have been a slam dunk election. The immigrant in California, an example for Trump's anti immigrant campaign, was suppose to be routinely convicted and sentenced to life for murder was found guilty on firearms charges only.
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  63. Any danger posed by a fascist pirah group like the KKK comes not from them eating or ordering cake but their actual actions. They'd have a hard time getting anyone to bake them a cake you describe and they are not covered in any direct manner by public accommodation law. Most of today's Klan are policemen who wear different 'off duty' uniforms.
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  64. The purpose to fighting the case is so the baker is sanctioned for his act. The baker can then decide what he wants to do. It much like Lester Maddox refusing to serve Black customers at his restaurant.
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  65. Look a guy providing the hall or chairs or some other material for a gay wedding could refuse under that doctrine. He refused to provide service saying his company did not provide bake goods for gay weddings.
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  66. I hope that people go to Muslim bakeries and if they bake cakes for weddings ask to buy one and then after the agree to make one of your liking just mention that the cake is for a friends gay wedding.
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  67. Government does not recognize religious belief. It is prohibited from favoring a religion or preventing the free exercise their of. Buying and selling wedding cakes are commercial transactions not religious ones. He stated that his company did not sell wedding cakes for same sex marriages. His claim now is that by selling the cake he would be endorsing the wedding. The only thing he is doing is making a cake for which he will be paid at the time of the transaction. Most weddings involve gifts so could companies refuse to sell any commodity because it would be given as a gift in a same sex union? His religious freedom and his speech ends once the transaction has been made. No one can seriously believe he is endorsing the wedding by baking a cake.
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  68. The baker wasn't asked about his religious belief he was asked about a wedding cake to which he responded his company policy was not to sell baked goods for same sex marriage.
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  69. "He is participating in and therefore supporting the act in which he does not agree with." No he is selling a wedding cake which will be eaten after the wedding. Under that theory any merchant that sells a product used in a gay wedding could refuse to sell and merchants supplying gifts could also refuse to sell to customers. Outside of himself and friends no one seriously believes he is endorsing gay marriage by selling a wedding cake. Also the notion that free markets are the best thing since sliced bread is wrong. They don't solve problems but usually make them. Otherwise their would be no need for laws and regulations.
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  70. No one is saying he can't have values the question is as a corporation does he have the right to refuse service on religious grounds? If the court says yes then that will rip a big hole in public accommodation law. All kinds of religious doctrine will now be used as a way to refuse service. He has lost every appeal so far but because each inferior appellate court has decided to look at it and the Supreme court has also decided to look at it some sort of more serious look is going to be taken.
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  71. I don't see how eating or not eating animals is a religious belief. In my time catholics could not eat meat on Friday so the school always served a hot lunch usually with fish instead of chicken, beef or pork. I could see Hindu parents wanting a non beef meal being served.
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  72. The couple is not asking a Hindu restaurant to make a hamburgers. They asked a custom wedding cake baker to make them a custom wedding cake. He refused outright. His defense is that Jesus told him not to bake custom wedding cakes for gays.
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  73. Maybe you should explain the difference? Let us in on Sex 101 for Numbskulls at Harvard. You lost all your mileage based on me not being a true blue American like you so now I am chronic liar? If anyone is a chronic liar (lawyer) it's you.
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  74. At the end of the day he will never be required to personally make a gay wedding cake but if he is ruled against he won't be making wedding cakes for sale to anyone as Masterpiece cakeshop once did. Unless he decides to change his mind or moves out of Colorado. Who knows the Pope might hire as chief wedding cake baker for Vatican City.
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  75. Yes as a communist I am a small, medium and large business persecutor. He has a choice operate under public accommodation law or go out of business. Crying about not being able to practice discrimination by claiming Jesus as the excuse doesn't buy me any sympathy. According to capitalist business theory some one else will fill the marketplace anyhow. Unless he is being given support from Alliance Defending Freedom he seems to be doing just fine despite the TV poverty and cry baby acts
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  76. If he wants to sell cakes to only the morally pure he should move his business into the Church basement selling to members of his church only.
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  77. Apparently he refused a lesbian couple cup cakes for their anniversary but would supply them for a wedding of dogs.
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  78. Well we have a legal system that is suppose to see to it that we have equality before the law, freedom, justice and we are protected from government tyranny. I don't like the system and lawyers either but without being able to replace it what do you suggest? If this man was a Preacher for the wedding he would of had every right to refuse on grounds of religious freedom. They asked for a wedding cake he said, "I don't do gay." Now he claims to be an artist and couldn't have the proper artistic inspiration due to his religion. So the court most likely is going to decide if he is an artist or just another cake baker.
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  79. Yes and Christians are the majority in prison. So does that make them political prisoners also? If you choose to go into business you have to abide by the law. The wedding has already finished when the cake is eaten usually at the reception hall. He isn't facilitating the marriage he's just engaging in post marital discrimination. Does he believe he will go to hell if he sells any cake to gay couples? I guess not since when he appeared for conciliation he offered a nondescript cake.
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  80. You don't get to use the excuse of 'running a business' by which you mean a limited liability corporation to do whatever you please.
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  81. Public Accommodation law overrides that. They put those signs up so they can ask disorderly people to leave without having to cite a reason.
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  82. The rights corporations have are not the same as individuals.
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  83. Maybe you should put the capitalist 'Baker' on next years Christmas list with fellow capitalists like 'computer programmers' Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg.
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  84. If there are 12 bottles of beer in a case how many new cases should be brought to Christian Bible Study to get everyone drunk? Is the outcome fairly obvious or difficult to calculate? Anyone know who had the key to the communion wine cabinet last?
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  85. Onesth not mock the mockers of the mock Project Mockingbird be thou fall into the kingdom of Sodom and Gomorrah everlasting.
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  86. In the customers papers to the court it says that one of their mothers was also present. Just because Jack doesn't say on the video that she was there doesn't make it false. Ask Lester Maddox about his cafeteria.
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  87. Oyez is a summary not an original source.
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  88. National Chauvinist Pig. End of discussion.
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  89. Andrew Shepard good reasoning for a theory requiring government bailouts of mismanaged business. After all the biggest bankers in the world went to Washington and got the "No Banker Left Behind Act of 2008" (Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008) rammed through Congress and signed by G.W.Bush. Why not a 'me too act' so everybody can start business' and never go bankrupt. You might also want to explain how public accommodation law costs business profits or drives them into the poorhouse?
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  90. Fascism is the crushing of the trade unions and all political descent while maintaining private property of the ruling class. Also called corporatism because it sounds less well? Fascist. In Germany it went further by organizing big business for Imperialist war, marching across Europe and remaking the German Empire with the goal of destroying the Soviet Union and defeating Democratic Imperialism as represented by France, Britain and the United States. The United States government is the executive committee of the American ruling capitalist class. They buy the politicians they get to play the tune.
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  91. The IRS and other federal agencies already have the right 'to pry in (to) private business' and the trade unions. In this instance the business proclaims what it is doing so little to no 'prying into' was necessary only the words of the owner were required. You still haven't explained how business loses money by complying with public accommodation law and why they now need government funding because of that.
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  92. Haitian army was good enough to beat the French that's why their Haitian and not part of the French Antilles.
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  93. No but you do want to extract a pound of flesh for doing something so blatant as saying "I don't do gay."
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  94. My understanding is that a doctor can refuse to do anything he sees as something he does not want to do for any reason he wants. Anything a doctor does even prescribing an aspirin can be deadly so that's why they have such latitude. Unless the baker can claim to be a physician also that analogy doesn't apply. If he had started from the premise that I am a Christian baker rather than I don't make wedding cakes for same sex weddings he'd be in a better position to refuse. Also if there was no law at the time then the case would be thrown out as ex post facto law. His business was set up as a corporation so the idea that a corporation needs free speech beyond the political level and for core religious institutions like a church is dubious at best. There is an exemption for churches in the discrimination law already. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." It does not say that religion trumps all anymore than elsewhere does it say free markets trump all. The law hasn't established a religion by requiring him to bake a custom cake nor does baking a cake require him to send a religious message.
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  95. Well, I read that during the mediation process they asked him to assign another employee without his beliefs to make all same sex wedding cakes or have an outside contractor do it. He refused that compromise. Past cases where companies have sought an exemption based on religious belief as a way around public accommodation laws have failed. If you start passing out passes to businesses for exemption based on religious belief where does that end? They court rejected that in the Newman v. Piggy Park Enterprises. Prior to the civil rights struggle of the 1950's and 1960's Black people often bought a book called the green book which listed which business's that would serve them when they were out of town. So should same sex couples have to hide when ever they seek a service or a custom made object? They man refused outright not waiting for a request that he could not full fill like say a plastic same sex couple instead he raised that issue later.
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  96. Yes we communists are known for our gentleness just check out the video of Batista's former policeman who used the most heinous methods of torture getting a trial and a quick death by firing squad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogKBqxnaWhU
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  97. You want ague how dumb I am instead of arguing the issues. Well Professor Steel Blank PHD of Harvard University is that the best you can do? Telling us how intelligent your bourgeois education makes you!!! LOL
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  98. Telling me to shut up and proclaiming a free country is the usual crap that supporters of capitalism bring to the their fancy dinner tables and wine and cheese parties.
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  99. See there you go again saying that I smoke crack instead of arguing the points raised. The idea of granting business the right to openly discriminate against those they dislike as customers will inevitably lead to the right to discriminate against those they dislike as workers. The American system of Apartheid, Jim Crow, was such a system. Using this type of system was good for breaking strikes. If a mostly white plant went on strike then the strikers would be replaced by blacks. It a mostly black plant went on strike than they were replaced with whites. Northern Ireland also maintained such a system. Catholics were kept out of jobs based on religion. You could tell who a Catholic was based upon name and accent. In the US wine and cheese parties are either bourgeois or a middle class parties while working class parties are usually based on budweiser.
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  100. Hellfire LOL bring it on baby.
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  101. No one except Christians and Muslims care about what Jesus said or didn't say. But my bet is that nowhere in the bible is the word homophobe used and given that both words homo and phobic have latin and greek origin one could argue that Jesus wasn't homophobic at all.
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