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@legendarygodzilla3577 A long reply once again showing your inherent bias. But I will feed the troll this time too.
1. Contrary to Jewish opinion that Jews were always the majority and real owners of land for the past 2800 years ish, they were not the only party in that area. Arabs were a party too. The same Arabs - who were hoodwinked by French and Brits - to backstab Ottomans in order to get an independent united Arab kingdom/republic as a reward. That agreement did not include awarding a homeland to Jews in the heart of Middle East (perhaps the most strategic location). Without the help of Arabs, Brits and French would have a hard time conquering Middle East, especially since the horrible defeat of AnZac at Dardanelles strait. So, understandably, Brits were trying to do some damage control with the ban of Jewish Aliyah. Perhaps, they also wanted Arabs to not support German cause during WW2. Without Aliyah, the amount of Jewish citizens in that region would be in thousands at best. And contrary to stupid Israeli belief, there would be no Israel without British empire. Israel was founded as a result of Balfour declaration. Infact, I also believe that dragging Ottomans into WW1 was a Jewish conspiracy all along but there is no need to go that far.
2. I'd guessed that you would go on your anti-Arab rant in my response. For one, Ummayads had taken over leadership and they were racist to non-Arab Muslims too. Secondly, Arabs weren't the only ones in control of Palestine. That land went from Rashidun to Umayyads to Abbasids to Crusaders to Ayyubids to Ottomans. 5 different Muslim empires controlled that land. Applying Umayyads rules to other 4 Muslim empires shows how ridiculously ignorant you are. And I told you to mention any specific instance where Muslims established apartheid against Jews. Your long rant didn't establish apartheid at all. Do you know what apartheid even means? Are you a 4th grader by any chance?
Stop wasting my precious time.
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@Raseef38801 I know right.
Look at these Westerners with their exceptionalism and arrogance. That'll be their downfall. Too arrogant to properly estimate their foe. That's what got them spanked in the ass by Arabs in 600's, Salahuddin when he liberated Palestine and Ottomans when Constantinople was lost for good.
Always underestimating others. Look at US with its never ending wars in the Middle East. Yes, it got rid of Saddam because unfortunately, Saddam had no allies. (Russia was weak; honestly speaking, it was a very good move from Putin not to veto the iraq invasion. These Western supermacists thought Russia is no longer a threat. Lmao. And China, at least at that time, had no interest in fighting miles away). USA, to this day, hasn't been able to find any political solution for Iraq. Instead, they even lost it to Iran and subsequently Russia.
Look at Afghanistan. 19 years of war. Couldn't manage to undermine Taliban millitarily. Put the blame on Pakistan. Attacked Chaklala base and killed 30+ soldiers. For what? China barged in and signed CPEC. And now Pakistan is out of Western camp. The most important ally in the cold war which did the most to counter Soviets - from bringing China and America closer in 1971 to literally doing dirty work on behalf of America in Afghanistan - supports China and Russia now.
And these EU nationalists think NATO and Western supermacy can survive without these minor/middle yet important nations ike Pakistan and Turkey. Haha.
One guy even asked, "Will you die for Pakistan?" Haha. He needs to have a cup of tea with US and NATO soldiers who have returned from Afghanistan.
They don't even realize that poor countries have often very little to loose in case of war. They should have learnt that from Vietnamese farmers and Taliban.
Macron even threatens Putin. Haha. Threatening Erdogan makes sense but Putin? Hahahaha.
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@Dazaioak Since you have kink for wikipedia, here is wikipedia:
'In August 1965, Pakistani army troops from the Azad Kashmir Regular Force, disguised as locals, entered Jammu and Kashmir from Azad Kashmir with the goal of fomenting an insurgency amongst the Muslim-majority population in the Kashmir Valley. However, the strategy went awry from the outset due to poor coordination, and the infiltrators' presence was soon disclosed to the Indian military.
Following the operation and discovery of the Pakistani army infiltration, India responded by deploying more troops in the Kashmir Valley and the Indian Army subsequently began its assault against the Pakistani army infiltrators operating in the region.
In August 1965, India crossed the ceasefire line, and attacked the Haji Pir pass inside Pakistan’s Azad Kashmir. Pakistan launched a major offensive named Operation Grand Slam on 1 September 1965 in India's Jammu and Kashmir, sparking the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965, which was the first major engagement between the two neighbouring states since the Indo-Pakistani War of 1947–1948. Thus Operation Gibraltar became the immediate cause of Indo-Pakistani War of 1965.
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Yomangamer Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, Azerbycan, Kazakhstan, Turkemanistan, Krgyzstan, Morocco, Tunisia, Bangladesh, Uzbekstan are Muslim majority countries having secular consitituions.
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Question
Is there consensus that the Earth is round? If there is, then what is the evidence from the Qur’an or Sunnah that the Earth is round or egg shaped?
Answer
Praise be to Allah.
More than one of the scholars have narrated that there is consensus that the Earth is round. For example:
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) narrated that from Abu’l-Husayn ibn al-Munaadi (may Allah have mercy on him), when he said:
Imam Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Munaadi narrated from the prominent scholars who are well known for knowledge of reports and major works in religious sciences, from the second level of Ahmad’s companions, that there was no difference of opinion among the scholars that the sky is like a ball.
He said: Similarly they were unanimously agreed that the Earth, with all that is contains of land and sea is like a ball. He said: That is indicated by the fact that the sun, moon and stars do not rise and set over those who are in different parts of the earth at the same time; rather that occurs in the east before it occurs in the west.
End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (25/195)
He (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked about two men who disputed about the nature of heaven and earth: were they both round bodies? One of them said that they were, but the other denied that and said there is no basis for that. What is the correct view?
He replied:
The heavens are round, according to the Muslim scholars. More than one of the scholars and Muslim leaders narrated that the Muslims are unanimously agreed on that, such as Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Munaadi, one of the leading figures among the second level of the companions of Imam Ahmad, who wrote approximately four hundred books. Consensus on this point was also narrated by Imam Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm and Abu’l-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi. The scholars narrated that with well-known chains of narration (isnaads) from the Sahaabah and Taabi‘een, and they quoted that from the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger. They discussed that in detail with orally-transmitted evidence. There is also mathematical evidence to that effect, and I do not know of anyone among the well-known Muslim scholars who denied that, apart from a few of those who engaged in arguments who, when they debated with the astrologers denied it for the sake of argument and said: It may be square or hexagonal and so on. They did not deny that it could be round, but they said that the opposite of that was possible. I do not know of anyone who said that it is not round – with any certainty – apart from some ignorant people to whom no one pays any attention.
End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (6/586)
Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm (may Allah have mercy on him) said: Evidence for the earth being round:
Abu Muhammad said: We are going to discuss some of the arguments against the idea that the earth is round. They said: There is sound evidence that the earth is round, but the common folk say otherwise. Our response – and Allah is the source of strength – is that none of the leading Muslim scholars who deserve to be called imams or leaders in knowledge (may Allah be pleased with them) denied that the earth is round, and there is no narration from them to deny that. Rather the evidence in the Qur’an and Sunnah stated that it is round. … and he quoted evidence to that effect.
End quote from al-Fasl fi’l-Milal wa’l-Ahwa’ wa’l-Nihal (2/78)
The evidence that the earth is round includes the following:
Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around the day and the day around the night”
[az-Zumar 39:5].
Ibn Hazm and others quoted this verse as evidence.
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
The earth is round, based on the evidence of the Qur’an, reality, and scientific views.
The evidence of the Qur’an is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around [yukawwir] the day and the day around the night”
[az-Zumar 39:5].
The word yukawwir (translated here as “wraps around” means to make something round, like a turban. It is well-known that night and day follow one another on earth, which implies that the Earth is round, because if you wrap one thing around another thing, and the thing that it is wrapped around is the Earth, then Earth must be round.
With regard to real-life evidence, this has been proven. If a man were to fly from Jeddah, for example, heading west, he would come back to Jeddah from the east, if he flew in a straight line. This is something concerning which no one differs.
With regard to the words of the scholars, they stated that if a man died in the west at sunset, and another died in the west at sunset, and there was some distance between them, the one who died in the west at sunset would inherit from the one who died in the east at sunset, if he was one of his heirs. This indicates that the earth is round, because if the earth were flat, sunset in all regions would occur at the same time. Once this is established, no one can deny it. This is not contradicted by the verses in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Do they not look at the camels, how they are created?
And at the heaven, how it is raised?
And at the mountains, how they are rooted and fixed firm?
And at the earth, how it is spread out?”
[al-Ghaashiyah 88:17-20]
Because the Earth is huge and its curvature cannot be seen from a short distance, it appears to be spread out and one cannot see anything that would make one fear living on it, but this does not contradict the fact that it is round, because it is very big. However they say that it is not evenly round; rather it is indented or pushed in at the north and south poles. Hence they say that it is egg-shaped.
End quote from Fataawa Noor ‘ala ad-Darb
Thus it is known that the Earth is round, and that is not contradicted by the fact that it is like an egg. Rather the false view is that which claims that it is flat, as the Church used to believe and for that reason used to curse and burn those scientists who said that it was round.
See: al-‘Almaaniyyah: Nash’atuha wa Tatawwuruha (1/130)
And Allah knows best.
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@magicblanket Zia ul Haq had threatened Rajiv Gandhi with nuclear retaliation in 1984. Pakistan had all the know how of operating nuclear facilities and developing nuclear grade weapons at that time. Additionally, Pakistan has always had a pretty strong millitary for its size and influence. It is at the 10th spot even now - stronger than most European countries. America had sold F16s to Pakistan. USSR, along with Afghanistan air force, tried to bomb Mujahideen camps inside Pakistan multiple times. Pakistan air force came out on top in all of the skirmishes. They even caught Societ pilot who later became vice president of USSR/Russia. Look it up. Plus US, China, UK, Saudi Arabia all were behind Pakistan. Even Israel was behind Pakistan lmao. Yes, USSR could have easily invaded Pakistan though they were taking losses by those sand dwellers in Afghanistan lol. So intelligent of you to even come up with this hillarious assertion.
USSR had played a major role in breaking Pakistan into two in 1971. Pakistan, in return, brought US and China on the same table. USSR lost cold war that year. USSR was already supporting separatist movements in Pakistan's Western provinces. Stop being so smart. Do you seriously think USSR or USA didn't come up with the options you're suggesting? You must be one of those know-it-all Westerners.
Of course Pakistan doesn't have range to hit any NATO country. Why would it anyway? It will most likely bomb countries housing US bases in the region. US cannot invade North Korea. Why? Because nuclear weapons. Stop being delusional.
Russia recently gave blank cheque to Pakistan on CPEC. It has offered millitary assistance. China-Pakistan relations are well know. Both China and Russia wanted USA to fail in Afghanistan since the start. Don't put too much pressure on your brain, honey. Thank Pakistan for saving American face in Afghanistan. We have given you a safe exit from Afghanistan. Be grateful.
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@legendarygodzilla3577 1. Aliyah didn't start in 1900s. It started in 1880s, clown. That is when Jews started building up their numbers in Palestine. Before that, they were always a minority. And it was actually Arabs who nullified the Roman policy of insignificant number of Jews in Hold Land. Muslims allowed Jews to resettle in 7th century. Zionists first went to Ottoman Sutlan Abdul Hamid to grant them a homeland but the offer was rejected. Then, Jews started buying property in Palestine which is when Aliyah started too.
2. Of course, I would exclude Jewish participation against Ottomans because it was such an insignificant event that no one mentions it. Everyone mentions Lawrance of Arabia and Arab betrayl. Turks to this day blame Arabs for the backstab. They even ally with Israel to punish Arabs (in their own moronic way). This was true until Erdogan came into power. Turkey is still the biggest trading partner of Israel in Middle East. So, in short, Jewish participation in that event is pointless. And you made a strawman yourself, clown. Not once did I mention that without Arab betrayl, Brits and French would have lost to Ottomans. I merely compared the event with Gallipoli campaign to prove that Turks knew how to fight and Brits and French would have a hard time defeating Turks in Arab world. The situation would have gone in European favour because of superior technology and resources. But Brits still acknowledged help of Arabs to the point they promised to make them independent after the war.
3. Brits made Israel. Everyone admits and acknowledges it. Without Brits in the scene, European refugees (that is what ashkenazis are) wouldn't even be able to land in that region. This is further corroborated by the fact that Ziomists first went to Ottomans for a homeland. They only went to Brits after their offer was rejected. Also, people of Moses genocided Cananites to obtain that land. The history is just repeating itself. And it was their own moronic ways that turned Romans against them. Kicked out of 109 places, not once was their fault. Lmfao clown.
4. What did other empires do after conquering other places? Clown. Muslims never once tried to eliminate entire population to further their goals. That is in contrast to what Jews did in the past and what they are doing now. That is in contrast to what white Christians did too (North America, Australia, Spain, Jerusalem twice).
5. No answer to the horrible depiction of goys in Talmud. Obviously, you can't answer that.
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@slappyfun Also, to respond your earlier comment which I didn't see, Muslims are not a monolith, either culturally, ethnically or even religiously. You will come across Turks, Indonesians and Malaysians who are all progressive and secular. You will come across Salafis in Gulf region who believe in literal interpretation of the text (look up wahabbism; I am not throwing all Salafis under the bus). You will come across Afghans who mix Islam with Pashtunwali code (Pashtun culture). You will come across Iranians who are Shia and have their own doctrine (politically entirely different and religiously a bit different). You may come across Azerbycanese who are Shias but they are allied with Israel.
You can go to individual Muslim countries and find conservatives and liberals just like Western countries (Egypt and Pakistan, for example). So it is not a monolith at all.
Even in Palestine, you have Palestinians with different views. Hamas led Gaza is conservative. PLO led West Bank is less conservative.
Muslims do have proper instructions regarding warfare. They are strictly prohibited to touch non-combatants, children, women, elderly and are prohibited to kill cattle and burn crops. I am not saying Muslims have never acted against teachings of Islam. They have, especially Wahabbis, with their evil manifestation in the form of Al-Qaeda, Daesh, Taliban, Boko Haram etc. etc. People look at these organizations and issue a blanket statement that this is what Islam teaches and this is what Muslims are like, as a whole.
All in all, I have found Palestinians to be very patient people, and I am saying this as a Pakistani. Pakistan's former prime minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto remarked in 1970s that Israel is lucky it isn't neighbouring Pakistan (look up Mumbai attacks - 2008). Pakistanis, especially Pashtuns, would not be so patient if Israelis were treating them like they are treating Palestinians.
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@shaneslr9123 'Aristotle’s classification of the “forms of government” was intended as a classification of constitutions, both good and bad. Under good constitutions—monarchy, aristocracy, and the mixed kind to which Aristotle applied the same term politeia—one person, a few individuals, or the many rule in the interest of the whole polis. Under the bad constitutions—tyranny, oligarchy, and democracy—the tyrant, the rich oligarchs, or the poor dēmos, or people, rule in their own interest alone.'
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@kallachi729 "The clearest verses on the requirement of modest dress are Surah 24:30–31, telling men and women to dress modestly.
Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their private parts; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khimār over their breasts and not display their beauty except to their husband, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.
— Quran 24:30
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@whereismyhossenpfeffer I do not debate with trolls. But still, just two points to shut you up permanently.
1. There is no Hamas in West Bank. PLO accepted two state solution in Oslo records and acknowledged the right of Israel to exist as a state. From 1993 till now, Israel has established close to 300k illegal settlements in West bank, in violation to International law. Between 1967 and till now, the numbers of those illegal settlements touch the numbers of 700k, as reported by UNHCR, Amnesty Intenrational and Btselem.
2. Reported from an article written in Times of Israel in 2019, Netanyahu urged Knesset members to vote for Qatar money being funnelled to Hamas as this divides joint Palestinian front and gives Israel carte blanche to bomb Gaza. He explicitly stated that whoever is for Israel should play their role in propping Hamas up. Israel, as a state policy, undermined PLO by supporting Muslim brotherhood in Gaza. This is a well known fact, even acknowledged by former US senator Ron Paul in 2008.
Whatever excuse you come up with to justify actions of ethno-supremacist, settler colonial apartheid state, I am frankly not interested.
Do not @ me again.
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@kokota32 Sam Harris - in his non-sensical hatred of Islam, which he inherits from his Jewish tribe - not that tribe loves anyone else besides itself, blames Islam for what he considers a religious conflict in holy land, while mildly criticizing his own tribe which, on one hand, derives religious motivation of a homeland in Judea and Samaria from Torah, and on the other hand, believe in exclusivity of holy land just for Jews and also believe in ethno-supremacy of tribe over other nations.
My advice to you is:
1. First learn about this conflict. If you are racist, don't even listen to Arabs. Listen to Illan Pappe, Gabor Mate, Norman Finklestein and Noam Chomsky. They are all Jews.
2. Then re-watch the video. Re-watch other instances of Sam's ignoramous claims about Muslims as well.
3. Learn history of Middle East, Central Asia and Sub-continent in past couple of centuries and then analyze whether Sam takes all conplexities of geo-politics into account or just talks shit ignorantly.
You have a lot of work to do. Do not mention me unless you partially go through all the sources.
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