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Lepi Doptera
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Comments by "Lepi Doptera" (@lepidoptera9337) on "Did Jesus Exist?" video.

@En_tropy There is no evidence for Jesus based on any method. There is no evidence against him, either. If we were trying to reconstruct a person who matches the description of him in the bible, though, then we end up with a homeless, politically naive apocalyptic 1st century AD preacher. Nothing particularly interesting.
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Probably not. Christ certainly is.
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And there is the silly person who threatens everybody with his imaginary friend.
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@Qvcpvc909 So why are you reading the bible, then?
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Sure he did. Did he walk on water? Probably not, unless the lake was frozen. Did he get resurrected? Yeah, right.
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So what's your agenda?
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@dannyboy536 So what's your truth? That names matter?
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@dannyboy536 True, except that in this case almost nobody will notice.
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@dannyboy536 Agreed.
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@benjalucian1515 That's true, but only because he didn't drink methyl alcohol like Paul did, if we believe his symptom cluster before his "vision". A few cups more of the swill that he must have ingested and we would be two world-religions short. We would also probably be populating the stars, by now, without religion holding us back like it did in the Middle Ages.
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@pravoslavie123 So what's that got to do with sin? Absolutely nothing. God said nothing about it being sinful to eat from the tree. Please read your bible and find out where god actually defines what sin is. Right now you are merely repeating a common theological falsehood.
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That sounds about right, but please have your keyboard fixed.
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Judaism at the time of Jesus was very different from Judaism today, which is shaped by historical events after Jesus' death. You are correct, though, that the Jewish part of Jesus has been more or less written out of the NT.
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Thousands of unvaccinated people are dying of COVID-19 right now because Q and Trump told them that fish tank cleaner and horse-dewormer are the medicines to take and the vaccines are poisonous. The Jesus myth is about equally intelligent in its makeup, you just can't think straight about it.
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@mistere7289 Why would I have to believe that beliefs are idiotic? I have plenty of historical data to know that it's true. :-)
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@mistere7289 When did I say that Jesus wasn't historical? He was, more likely than not, an idiot who got himself crucified by the Romans. So what? So nothing. Absolutely nothing hinges on whether such a poor chap existed or not.
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Let's talk after the local thermonuclear war in the Middle East, shall we?
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How does torturing resurrected people for eternity in a lake of fire improve society, exactly? Please explain.
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So what does one religion's crazy book prove about another religion's crazy book? Absolutely nothing.
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@charleswesley3642 And there is the utterly mindless person on the internet who is threatening all of us with his imaginary friend. Please grow up.
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@charleswesley3642 Well, it's certainly not full with crazy, like yours. :-)
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Well, the problem is that he wasn't even that. The Jewish people were waiting for a military leader and then this scrummy preacher shows up who gets himself killed by the Romans.
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So you are saying that your guy walked on water because that's the best stunt the creator of the universe could come up with at the time? OK.
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@marshalldarcy7423 New information about Jesus? No, not really. They are finding new copy errors and deliberate falsifications, which tell us something about the theology of the 6th century and nothing about Jesus. Might as well read the book of Mormon.
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So you are choosing between two non-existent flavors of ice cream? Cool.
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@truthwinseverytime8805 Let's see when the Easter Bunny shows up. :-)
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We don't know what Jesus did and said. We only have hearsay about what he did and said.
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@dogfacedponysoldier87 Neither Ronald Reagan nor Abraham Lincoln are threatening to return, to resurrect my dead body, to judge it and then to throw it into an eternal lake of fire. Only your Jesus does that. Can you tell the difference? ;-)
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You may want to listen to the talks of Bart Ehrman. He can give you the historical details without the religious bullshit.
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@En_tropy What is the scope? There are no reports of Jesus outside of the documents that have been used to create the NT.
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You are right. You are not a historian.
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@v1art24 He is the dude who was supposed to have come back some 1960 years ago and didn't.
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@v1art24 In the bible. If you don't know where it is, then you have no business talking about Christianity. :-)
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@Qvcpvc909 Tell you what. I will give you my entire possessions on the day Jesus comes back as part of a bet, if you pay me $1000 per month for every month that Jesus does not show up. :-)
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@Qvcpvc909 Unlike you I am not a sucker for idiocies, so why would I take a bet that I am guaranteed to lose? Would you like a Pascal's wager with that? Better start praying to the FSM or you will have to spend eternity as a meat ball. :-)
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@Qvcpvc909 Ouch, that's a full 10% of your cognitive capacity gone on a single post. :-)
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@Qvcpvc909 Then you will go to hell. The bible says so. Of course, if you do read the bible, then the FSM will reduce you to a meat ball for eternity. It's kind of a no-win.
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@Qvcpvc909 Huh? How did you miss that I was always going with the obvious, that you are just a troll? :-)
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@Qvcpvc909 Then we should keep talking. We are obviously the same.
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Jesus doesn't resemble Jesus in the slightest in the bible. There are plenty of different versions of him in there, already.
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Nice religion you got there.
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No, you are looking at a guy who got himself killed by the authorities because he was a political dunce.
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@clayfoster8234 Why not? The story checks out in pretty much every detail. Every actor in it is acting rationally (the Pharisees are trying to protect their people from the Romans and the Romans are their usual cruel selves), expect for the fool who draws the short stick, but then he is a crazy apocalyptic preacher, so he is acting like you would expect him to. The persecution of Jesus and the inevitable conclusion are probably the most realistic parts of the gospels. It's easy to tell when they are lying (about the miracles and the resurrection), but there seems very little lying going on about the end of his life. He was a liability for the people of Jerusalem and the real-politicians on both sides decided that getting rid of the man was the thing to do. It was the correct decision, by the way, because it prevented a genocide for another 35 years, which only came in 70AD.
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@clayfoster8234 I don't have to because it doesn't matter. All I am saying is that the story checks out, just not the way it is being sold to to Christians. The good boys in the story are the guys who got this rebellious preacher buried because he was about to burn the place down.
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@benjalucian1515 You are looking at all the wrong details. All of that is made up or based on Chinese whispers. The people who wrote the gospels weren't there when it happened. The important part of the story is that the Jewish people had been living under occupation for six centuries, similar to the Palestinians today. They were losing hope and some of them were, literally, losing it. There would have been the equivalent of an Intifada movement which was waiting for the one guy to shout "Now!". The temple, which was the one somewhat unifying political force among the Jewish people knew this. The Romans knew this. The Romans had told the temple priests what would happen once that guy made that noise and the temple priests understood that the Romans didn't just talk bloodbath. They meant bloodbath. And then Jesus shows up and keeps saying "I am not saying it's now... I am not saying it's now... I am not saying I am the guy.... but I am the guy.". What would you have done to save the lives of your family if you had been in the temple? Let the guy walk around with his "I am not saying it's now..." story or feed him to the Romans? Exactly. They fed him to the Romans. It bought them 35 years before they eventually ran out of time because some other guys were shouting "Now!". You just have to get past all the irrelevant details. Nobody cares what the colors of the lamp posts on Jerusalem's High Street were and if any of the Evangelists got it right. What matters is that there was a massacre in Jerusalem in 70AD and THAT is the true background of the Jesus story.
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@benjalucian1515 What is an assumption? That the temple had to make arrangements with the Romans? Of course they had to. Paid good money for what little freedoms they could buy, too. The problem weren't the random preachers who knew where the limits of "religious freedom" in the Roman Empire were. It was this one preacher who didn't know when to keep his mouth shut. He wasn't a hero. He was simply an idiot. But some idiots with the right message are being listened to by lots of people. Do I really need to remind you of Trump and his obvious lies? Still think that the right lie whispered into the ears of dumb people can't cause harm? I don't know where you are getting that weird timeline from. The Jewish people hadn't been free for like 600 years at the time of Jesus. All of modern Judaism was basically created in captivity and under the authority of or while in constant conflict with external forces. It's a slave religion of a small people who were hoping for salvation. Maybe you should read the OT, again, this time with an eye on politics. The book is choke full of it.
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But the FSM made all the pasta. Take that Lord Vishnu!
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@jairajlsingh Never boil the pasta in its mother's pasta water!
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@HQS Sure it does, as long as some seriously disturbed guys get their handmaidens in heaven and if they can't get that, then they can always kidnap and abuse some schoolchildren in this world.
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Whereas you are the real prophet of the lord. Got you.
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And you are saying this despite the fact that you don't even know where sin is defined in the bible.
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@pravoslavie123 You are welcome to get your bible and check this: the word sin is not even mentioned in Genesis 3. Whoever told you that sin is from Adam and Eve lied to you.
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You are a good example of a mind that makes up its own reality from a random string of words that do nothing but to fit a foregone conclusion.
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It must be true because some guy said something on a telecast. :-)
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So they were lying. So what?
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@benjalucian1515 Not even the texts of the NT were written by what we would call Christians, today. You may call them proto-Christians or early Christians, if you like, but their world was very different from ours. Their economic, social, political and emotional needs were very different from ours. If you met one of these people, today, you would, most likely, find that you have little in common with them. You may actually discover that you would agree far more often with a Roman intellectual like Seneca who was later adopted by Christians, which tells you that Christianity in many aspects is just a copy of the thinking of greater minds that would not wanted to have anything to do with its eschatological nonsense.
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That's only because you know nothing about other religions in Asia and the Americas.
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@alinmatei8332 Judaism never had many followers to begin with and I have yet to see a real Christian in my life who follows the teachings of Christ. In Islam you have to pretend to believe in Allah or they will punish you severely, so that doesn't count anyway.
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@mistere7289 I don't believe in anything. Beliefs are idiotic.
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@mistere7289 There is a myth about Hercules cleaning stables by diverting a river or two. I believe modern stables usually have a hose and a pressure washer. What do you think? Was Hercules a smart baby, or not? He should have gotten a patent on that one. :-) I didn't draw any conclusion about Jesus other than that it doesn't matter whether he existed or not. It doesn't matter to the atheist because the existence of a human being in antiquity is nothing unusual. The existence of apocalyptic preachers in Judea in the 1st century AD is nothing unusual, either, it seems. That people believe in bullshit is nothing unusual. That people believe in 2000 year old bullshit is nothing unusual as any comparative religion class will teach. You are drawing the entirely wrong conclusions about all of this yourself. None of this requires any belief in anything. This is just the usual human condition.
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@darkwolf9183 Yeah, I wasn't asking about the religion that you made up in your mind. I was asking about the religion that is described in the bible. I still don't get your answer, though. How does giving people additional unnecessary and irrelevant anxieties improve societies? I know somebody who believes in this stuff and he is constantly terrified that his atheist son will burn in hell. That person is just as good a person without the hell fairytale as with, but now he is running around with a religion-induced psychosis. The constant proselytizing to "save" the son is also ripping the family apart. What is good about that, again? Please explain.
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@darkwolf9183 How did you come to this idea that I believe in god? I am just asking how a human being can possibly believe in such a perverted idea as eternal torture. That's all.
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@darkwolf9183 Eternal torture is not truth. It's eternal torture.
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@darkwolf9183 Please do. So far you got nothing.
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@darkwolf9183 And I am not interested in your own religion. You are a dime a dozen.
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@darkwolf9183 But why does god want to torture everybody?
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@darkwolf9183 Ah, so yamraj does the torturing for god? OK.
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@darkwolf9183 Shiva has nothing on the FSM. The FSM made all the pasta, long and short, narrow and broad. He also made the meat sauce. Those who oppose the FSM will have to soak in cold pasta water for eternity. Ramen, brother! :-)
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@charleswesley3642 Where did I ever claim to be a Jewish person? Now you are simply hallucinating. :-)
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What's that got to do with the question if the Romans crucified a stupid apocalyptic preacher around the year 30-35 AD? Of course you were lied to about the Jesus myth, but that doesn't mean that nails didn't tear into a stupid man's flesh some 2000 years ago.
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Not the worst explanation I have ever heard. Are you an active stage magician? :-)
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@benjalucian1515 Makes sense.
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Neither.
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They didn't sell the real Jesus, though. They are, to this day, selling a synthetic product that is much easier to swallow than the real man would have been. The real man had a bad temper, probably really thought that he would come back to smite you and was stupid enough to have himself crucified by the Romans over a few stupid words.
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The one we are talking about certainly didn't. Was there a proto-Jesus? Maybe. There may have been several, actually.
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@benjalucian1515 What's wrong with multiple real people being melded into one mythical character? Of course neither of them ever walked on water or healed lepers.
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@benjalucian1515 How would a guy who walks on water and gets resurrected ever have been a historical character? Would you like a Santa Claus with that? Does that mean there was no 1st century AD apocalyptic preacher who got himself killed by the Romans? Of course not. And, yes, there may have been a historical figure called Saint Nicholas. :-) Now... it's far harder to point to a historical figure for the Easter Bunny, so I leave that to your tiny imagination. :-)
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@benjalucian1515 Yes, I know that you aren't rational. No need to mention it.
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@benjalucian1515 That you aren't rational is obvious. How much proof does it need?
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@benjalucian1515 I am simply referring to the fact that it is not rational to believe in something that you can't prove, like the non-existence of a person 2000 years ago. That's religious faith. :-)
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@benjalucian1515 You believe that Jesus didn't exist. The burden of proof for that is with you. Let's not use double standards here. :-)
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So it was the priest who stole the bible for Mohammed?
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So he basically says that there is no archaeological evidence of Jesus, whatsoever.
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@Truthseekersws I did.
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@Truthseekersws Repetition of nonsense is repetition of nonsense.
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@Truthseekersws Yes, it's nonsense.
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@Truthseekersws Ah, that nonsense, again.
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@Truthseekersws You really don't have any other material, do you? :-)
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He would have certainly been crazy if he told the Roman authorities that he was the King of the Jews. Now, we don't know what Jesus really did and said, though. It's all hearsay by people who never met him.
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@ckay_real2765 Well, for one thing, Yahweh doesn't even create the universe in Genesis, if we are precise, but for another, you can see that over the course of seven centuries of biblical writing the claims are getting ever smaller. It's an exponentially shrinking god. Pitiful, really. In Genesis he can drown an entire planet in an ocean, by the time of the NT he can only convert a few gallons of water into wine. That's a 20 orders of magnitude reduction in water volume. The latter trick is, of course, well within the capabilities of professional magicians, even at the time of Jesus. Every better potter can make double walled vessels for you. :-)
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@ckay_real2765 That's not Genesis. That's a poor English translation of a poor Latin translation of a poor Greek translation. Genesis is written in Hebrew and it doesn't say that. You should read the original when you can find the time.
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Yes, they have been saying the same bullshit for almost 2000 years now. So what does that make it? 2000 year old bullshit. :-)
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The claim of the bible isn't that Jesus was famous. It is that he will return to resurrect your dead corpse.
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@Skeptic78 I am merely stating the relevant facts. I noticed that people on the internet don't like facts, especially not the relevant ones. That's all.
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@Skeptic78 Except that popularity was always completely irrelevant to the JEWISH god. You don't have the tiniest clue what you are talking about.
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@Skeptic78 Would that change anything about the aspect that Jews didn't try to be popular? They wanted to be free. Judea wasn't an episode of dancing with the stars.
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@Skeptic78 What about Jesus didn't try to be popular in Rome did you not understand? He was preaching exclusively to the Jewish folks. Why do you think he got killed? Because he was talking about Jupiter? Jesus Christ...
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@Skeptic78 He never got himself crucified? Of course he did, kid. :-)
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@benjalucian1515 Did you notice how documents from the time seem to exaggerate numbers of people more or less consistently by an order of magnitude? Archaeological population sizes and estimated environmental carrying capacity are almost always far lower than what documents from the time report. Military leaders seemed to like to overestimate both their troop strengths and the number of their enemies (Why would they do that?... chuckle...). Did Jesus have hundreds of followers? Probably. Would I call that "popular"? Given that the Roman Empire had maybe four million inhabitants, no, not really. And let's not speak about the population of the entire world, which hadn't heard a peep about what the frell was going on in some goat herder hellhole in the Middle East.
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@Skeptic78 That's my point, you are a little old to think like a child.
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@benjalucian1515 How can you say that it's a book of myths? Of course a whale can swallow a man. It almost happened a few weeks ago. ;-)
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@Skeptic78 I am simply trying to teach you logical thinking. That, of course, is a fool's errand. That much is true.
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@Skeptic78 I don't believe in anything. Especially not in the mental capacity of people who can't tell that I am an atheist. :-)
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@Skeptic78 I know that the story fits and that is more than you know. Agnosticism is just a coward's excuse for intellectual laziness.
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@Skeptic78 The story doesn't fit but you haven't found a single argument against it and now you are down to name calling. I win.
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The earliest extant writings about Christianity are from the 3rd century, I believe. There may be one or two that may go back to the first century, with some luck, but they can't seem to be dated precisely enough. For something important to god not to exist in originals is kind of disappointing. God does not take good care of his books.
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@benjalucian1515 First of all, that's not even true in terms of volume. The Mahābhārata outclasses them all, if I remember correctly, and the entirety of Hindu and later Buddhist writings is staggering. Of course by sheer volume of writing by a single man, Ron L. Hubbard seems to take the cake.
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@benjalucian1515 I understand that, they still wrote a lot more than we ever did. Is it worth reading? Nah, probably not. Neither is Ron L. Hubbard, of course. As far as myths are concerned I take Harry Potter over any of this stuff anytime.
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What did he teach you about grilling humans on the roast?
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A rose by any other name is still a rose. Shalom to you, too!
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@En_tropy I understand. I am just saying that the only way to get to "Jesus" is through the bible and related non-canonical writings and what emerges is a pretty limited human being. One wonders if the man, if he existed, wasn't actually better than the bible gives him credit for.
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The bible is not a history book. It starts with a tribal political movement and ends with desperation and a yearning for an Egyptian style afterlife. Not sure what else you are trying to find in there. It's pretty much self-explanatory.
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@adiandaniels6327 Disingenuous about what? Look up "Duat", that's the name of the Egyptian underworld with a lake of fire. Not a genuinely Christian idea by any means. The OT and the NT are basically rewrites of a lot of material that came from earlier cultures around our Jewish friends. :-)
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@adiandaniels6327 Am I also misinformed that the ten commandments are basically an abridged version of the 42 negative confessions of Maat? :-)
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@adiandaniels6327 I haven't been told any of these things by anybody. You can just look up the sources and translations yourself. They are all on the internet on archaeological research sites that don't care about religion. I was merely researching the beliefs of Egyptians and Babylonians for fun and it became totally obvious that the Jews and Christians were parroting those cultures just like Mohammed was parroting the bible. It's Chinese Whispers since 3500BC.
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@adiandaniels6327 And there it is, the intellectual cowardice. Glad we got it out in the open.
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There are plenty of stupid "Did Mohammed exist?" videos on YouTube.
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Jesus? Jesus died 2000 years ago, give or take.
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@v1art24 Why would he not have been real???? What makes you a Christian is NOT that you believe in Jesus as a real person. It's that you believe that he is the son of god and that he will come back to resurrect the dead. Have you ever had Christian religious instruction????
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@v1art24 You really didn't read the bible, did you? :-)
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@v1art24 Why would I discuss the bible with somebody who never reads the bible? :-)
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@v1art24 It's in the bible several times. You should read it occasionally.
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@v1art24 You don't know where. End of discussion. :-)
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@v1art24 You clearly don't know your bible, kid. :-)
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You have a vivid phantasy, for sure.
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Why would Jesus not have existed? The Romans killed a lot of Jewish people at the time and the political background story checks out.
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@ub2bn The Pharisees came after him to protect the frail peace with the Romans. That was a realpolitical move that saved the lives of hundreds of thousands for another 35 years. Until not even that worked, of course, and the Romans went postal on Judea, anyway. If you look at history rationally, the Pharisees are the good guys and Jesus was a liability.
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@ub2bn Of course the texts of the NT were written by somebody. They are certainly not homogeneous, though, and they don't agree with each other on crucial details (like when Jesus was supposed to return). If that corpus had been written by a unified body, it should look a lot more internally consistent. It isn't, which tells me that many hobby theologians of early Christianity threw their hats into the ring and some of the worst (like Revelations) struck enough of a note with the audience that they kept it. The resulting religious cacophony only sells well today is because nobody actually reads the bible. Most Christians do, at most, skim trough it without ever noticing the theological problems with basically every single part of the document.
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@ub2bn Yes, the fish is always getting bigger. :-) Curiously, in the bible the water stories seem to be getting smaller. In the beginning god creates the oceans with everything in them. Then he drowns the entire planet. By the time of Moses he can only part a sea and then there is a man inside a whale. We come to Jesus and now a couple of pitchers of water turn into wine and a man walks on water... that's it. I have a feeling that we are talking about 19-20 orders of magnitude reduction in moved water volume over the course of roughly four millennia. Somehow the old man had really lost his water mojo.
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Trump is actually known to a lot more people than Jesus ever was. :-)
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