Comments by "0x777" (@0x777) on "Rationality Rules"
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Daniel Justin There are actually pretty good counter arguments for both these "arguments"
"You can't prove that God doesn't exist, can you?"
When trying to achieve knowledge of what really is, there are logically two starting points you can work away from. You can either work from the point that nothing is that isn't shown to exist, or you can work from the point that everything is possible until proven wrong. What you can't do is pick and choose. Either nothing exists until proven to exist or everything (possibly) exists until falsified.
I doubt that a theist wants to start from the second, the "all is that isn't disproved", point. Because then he would bear the burden to prove the nonexistence of Ra, Thor, Vishnu, Allah, God, Zeus, Toutatis, the flying spaghetti monster and the invisible pink unicorn, to name a select few of the pantheon of millions of (potentially) existing gods. And no, your god doesn't get a special dispensation, either you prove that yours exist or you prove that all the others do not. Your choice.
"So who created this universe then?"
A similar problem. Even assuming that it was created, we're dealing with a lot of conflicting creation myths in various religions. By their very nature they might all be wrong but they can't all be right, so we're back to the theist having to show that his creation myth is the one that is the true one.
And no, "because it says so in my book" doesn't mean jack. The guy over there holding a completely different book makes exactly the same argument.
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I do this thing called pizzapathy. When I have a headache, I eat a pizza. And 2-3 hours later, my headaches are gone, so this proves that the pizza works great against headaches. Sometimes it doesn't work, that's called initial worsening, usually taking another pizza a few hours later cures it. From time to time, though, I have to switch pizzas, currently I work with pizza tonno, but until recently cardinale was the right kind of pizza for me, it varies from person to person and it also fluctuates with time. I have to do more research into the matter.
Originally I had the idea 'cause the smell of anchovies makes me sick to my stomach, so I had that bright idea that eating a pizza with anchovies would cure it, and what can you say, it worked.
Only side effect I can see so far is I put on weight...
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@mohammadazraazriazhar2170 I easily believe you anything that doesn't affect me. If you tell me you had cereal for breakfast, I don't insist in pumping your stomach to get proof of it. Mostly because there are few things I could care less about.
If you want to propose something is true that does affect me, like saying that some being put down some laws that you want me to uphold, then I do insist in proof. First of all that the being exists and second that the laws are actually from aforementioned being. Else, why bother upholding them?
Furthermore, do you have any sources for whatever Muhammad did that aren't in any way related to the faith he invented? Because, well, according to ancient Egyptian sources, Ramses II was the greatest troop leader of all times and according to North Korean sources, Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il invented pretty much everything there is. And guess what, neither is true.
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@mohammadazraazriazhar2170 First, please try to get your answers into one reply. It's easier to answer and it's less likely that I miss one.
Why I follow man made rules? Because I don't want to pay fines or go to jail. And unlike gods, these laws created by humans can and do get executed. Gods are pretty weak when it comes to this, they usually needs humans to do their dirty work.
Concerning the biography of your prophet: Do you have any sources besides islamic sources? Because if not, it's about as good as a biography of Harry Potter. Some book, written by someone, telling the story about some character.
Concerning believing: Your point is that I first have to believe something, then everything else can be believed. By that logic, I can as well believe any kind of story that establishes its own reality, and within that reality everything works out. That works for every (decent) fictional universe ever created, from Discworld to Star Trek. And I hope we can agree that neither Discworld nor Star Trek have anything to do with reality.
Concerning the life of Muhammad: Again, the first problem is that we have very little unbiased sources for this to actually have been the case. But even assuming that it is true it means fairly little. A lot of myths and folk tales talk about people getting visited by gods or gaining messages from them which caused them to perform all sorts of feats, often at great personal sacrifice. The christian bible has such a story about Paul, a noble Roman who had an epiphany and converted to christianity, dedicating his life to spreading the faith and eventually dying for the faith. Does that mean that he was visited by christ? Sorry. This is no proof for anything. It means that some human had some sort of experience that they attributed to a divine being. Not that such a being exists.
Concerning the quote (and pretty much any quote from a holy book): Meaningless to someone who doesn't believe that book. To give you an idea what this means to me, you could have quoted Harry Potter and it would be about as convincing. Someone wrote something in a book at some point in time. There is exactly nothing that points to anything of this actually having any meaning in reality.
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@mohammadazraazriazhar2170 Concerning laws: My country defines laws negatively. As in you're allowed to do what is not explicitly forbidden. I prefer laws that can be adjusted to events on the world and development of science, morals and ethics. Since no divine almighty being ever came down to rule, instead we had OCD freaks with power fantasies pretending to speak for such beings, I can't really say whether a divine benevolent being would be a better way to rule something. What I can say, from experience, both historic as well as current, is that theocracies are more like the playground for aforementioned control freak fantasies than some divine, sublime and perfect places.
The world you describe here, where some control freak dictates what I can eat, drink, wear and do is hell. Literally hell. If that's what your god offers, please keep him as far away from me as possible. I don't want to be subjected to the whims of such a petty deity.
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