Comments by "MrSirhcsellor" (@MrSirhcsellor) on "ABC News"
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@poormanshellcat Why does this matter? It’s pretty simple, it’s gravity that orientates you to surface. Your body is designed to handle the force of gravity, feet on the ground, head to the sky. You feel upside down, when you orientate the opposite way, because the gravity pulls the fluids of your body (blood, water, everything) to your head…where it’s not supposed to be, giving you a feeling of discomfort you experience as being upside down. It’s gravity that causes this motion of fluids when you disorientate yourself from your gravity vector…so gravity has everything to do with feeling upside down. If gravity pulls to centre, then it’s not gonna matter where you are on the surface of the globe, the force of gravity pulls you and all your fluids towards centre…towards surface, so you will be right side up, so long as your feet are on the ground, orientated to gravity.
If you’re not aware of this, then you need to go back to school.
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@poormanshellcat You’re not quite getting it. At any given time you are in what’s known as a gravity vector. Its direction is always towards centre, that’s where gravity pulls you at all times, but the angle of these vectors changes as you move along the surface. So when you’re on a fair ride, going upside down, you’re upside down relative to that gravity vector you’re currently in. Key word here is relative. If you’re in the US (which I assume you are), a person in Australia is upside down relative to YOU, but relative to his gravity vector, he is rightside up, so long as his feet are on the ground, in line with the force of gravity pulling him towards centre. So upside down is a relative term…in relation to what are you upside down? Thanks to how gravity works here on Earth, you’re always right side up, if you’re orientated to your gravity vector…which isn’t hard, your body aligns with it pretty naturally, like breathing.
This is the same on every planet as well, every planet has gravity that pulls to centre…the planets are actually spherical because of gravity. When you squeeze a snowball together from all angles inward, what shape does it make? A ball, right? Because you built it by pushing in towards the centre. Gravity does the same thing, builds mass up around centre of mass…this forms a sphere around that centre, the most rigid shape in nature. Bubbles form spheres for similar reasons, raindrops as well, every star, planet, moon, all formed spherical because of a force that brought matter together, squeezing it towards a centre. Earth is no exception.
I’m just saying, you’re currently misunderstanding how gravity works, and are reaching a false conclusion because of it. I hope this information can help, but I can only do so much, the rest is up to you and your ability to understand.
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@poormanshellcat To be fair though, everything I’ve said so far is just the conclusion of gravity, it’s an explanation of how it works, but you’re right in saying that it in no way proves it. So go back to the history of the theory if you want to know how that conclusion was reached. Why would scientists conclude this? Because the evidence for a spherical Earth was overwhelming, the moment geographers realized the Earth was spherical, nautical navigation all of sudden got easier, maps became a lot more accurate. Once the latitude and longitude lines were proven to be curving around a sphere, through countless successful navigations, it couldn’t be denied anymore that Earth was spherical. It also explained how a sunset occurs, how different stars are visible in each Hemisphere, how lunar eclipses occur, etc, etc. So it also fit with many other observations and data.
So the geometry couldn’t be denied, the evidence was there, but wait how exactly does it all stay on the surface? That was of course the immediate question that followed. Well, let’s observe a fact of nature, when you drop something, it’s clearly put into a motion towards surface. That’s undeniable, most things fall when they’re dropped. Every motion is caused by a force, you don’t have motion, without a force to cause it, that’s motion physics 101. So something is causing that downward motion of matter, so there is a force present. At that point it’s as easy as 2+2=4, Earth is measured spherical, and there’s clearly a downward force that draws everything to surface, whether you’re in America or Australia, North pole or South pole, you’re pulled to surface. So if both perimeters are true, then it’s only logical that this force pulls to a centre, cause if you draw motion vectors all pointing towards the surface of a sphere, they will all converge at centre.
So that’s where gravity science began, they figured out Earth’s shape first, the rest was just paying attention to a phenomenon we all experience, the motion of falling objects. Your current argument ignores the science of gravity, and completely skips over the history of how they reached the conclusion that Earth is spherical. Of course nothings going to make sense to you, if you start at the end…you have to start at the beginning, that’s where the foundation of the information is.
Once all that was realized…the mysteries of the cosmos started falling like dominoes. It all of sudden made sense why everything we observe in space is spherical, why and how they orbit each other, how they form in the first place, it’s because they all have gravity…all mass does. Next step was proving that, which came in the form of the Cavendish experiment, that proved that mass attracts mass, because all mass has gravity. Get enough of that mass together, you get a planet capable of holding people and everything too it. Get even more mass together, then force of gravity becomes so great that certain atoms (typically hydrogen) actually begin fusing together (nuclear fusion), which creates a lot of energy…you then get a star. So gravity also explains how our Sun works, it’s just a lot of mass collected together, creating so much gravity it causes nuclear fusion. We currently use this knowledge in fusion reactors to recreate the effect…and it works.
If science was just talking bullshit, then nothing would work. You know your science is good, when you can apply it and it works. That’s how you know it’s accurate. Nobody is using a flat Earth model to navigate with…they are however using a globe model, and it gets them where they’re going every time it’s used. That’s how you know it’s accurate. Are Flat Earthers building nuclear fusion reactors? No…they typically don’t have any actual credentials, with no actual experience with an applied science, of any kind. Not a group I’d be quick to follow…
Anyway, that’s a brief history of gravity physics. I can go deeper if you’d like, explain the Cavendish, go through some equations that use gravity as a variable, explain Newtons law of universal gravitation a bit more in depth, I don’t mind, if it’s helpful.
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There’s not more evidence for a flat Earth, there’s just more layman tackling the subject currently and they’re all basically starting from scratch, without any formal training in science. Took mankind collectively thousands of years to finally reach a general consensus on Earth’s geometry...now we have people throwing the baby out with the bath water and starting over, because they’ve lost trust in the system, of course they’re going to make the same mistakes, the scientific method took a long time to refine. Though it’s even worse now, because they’re determined to prove the government is hiding something...they want it so badly, they don’t even care if it’s accurate. This mind set blinds them, it’s called bias...and it’s a real problem in researching, that they need to get under control, or they will never find real answers.
If you really think there’s more evidence for a flat Earth...then you’ve clearly forgotten your physics classes, and have likely never taken any higher science education. But the simplest way to know for certain, is the modern world around you...every applied science in the world makes use of the heliocentric model, that’s for a good reason. Nice thing about junk science is, that it reveals itself as nonsense by the simple fact that it does not work...it’s not useful, because it’s not reality. Ask a pilot or sailor sometime what model they use to navigate the planet with...that’s millions of people confirming the Earth’s geometry, every single day. Navigation alone buries FE under a mountain of evidence...just one of many examples.
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Colours can vary wildly between different cameras, lenses, film, etc. Plus every photographer I know, typically does colour correcting in post, adjusting hues, contrast and lighting, etc, on every photo they take. So if you expect every photo to be the same colour, then you’re clearly lacking a bit of photography knowledge.
And the Nazi’s knew the Earth was spherical just like everyone in the world did…so it’s pretty paranoid to conclude, or even make the leap in logic required to think making use of the worlds most skilled scientists and engineers=Flat Earth. Here’s a hard truth about the world, if you have a specialized set of knowledge or skills that a government can exploit for their gain, then you have value, and thus you can avoid potential prosecutions. Happens all the time…probably every single day in fact. It’s certainly not right, but it doesn’t mean the Earth is flat.
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@sam-cn9gf Well, I could ask you the same, are you afraid to be wrong? I’m sure it would feel pretty crappy to learn that you fell for an online scam, that successfully conned you to believe bullshit. I’ve seen Frankie around in these comments, and from what I’ve gathered he is an actual sailor, with real first hand knowledge and experience with world navigation. So I very much doubt you know more about it than him. It’s a pretty simple deduction, pilots and sailors require the knowledge of Earth’s shape and scale be accurate, in order to do their jobs at all. We have built all systems of navigation around the knowledge that Earth is spherical, with two equal hemispheres. There’s no getting around that. You want to really learn the true shape of Earth? Learn to navigate…then apply it.
You have questions, but questions are not evidence…just because YOU couldn’t answer those questions, doesn’t mean they can’t be answered.
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@sam-cn9gf For example, you asked why our Earth doesn’t get pulled into the Sun, or why our Moon doesn’t get pulled towards us? It’s actually a great physics question, but it’s easily answered. The answer is because they are also in motion, that’s how an orbit works, their forward velocity keeps them falling around the larger mass. They are being pulled in, but they’re also moving, this keeps them in an orbital trajectory, like coins spiralling around inside a funnel. But unlike the coins that deal with friction and drag, which slows it down, which eventually draws it closer to the centre, celestial bodies in orbit don’t have that problem, because space is a vacuum, meaning no friction and no drag. So they orbit indefinitely. It’s basic orbital mechanics…that’s how we learned how to put satellites in orbit around Earth, by studying the orbits of Moons and Planets.
See, you have questions…but they’re pretty easily answered, if you’d only bother to try. I very much doubt you were a “space nerd”, if you didn’t understand the basic physics of an orbit. 🙄 If you were a real “space nerd”, you wouldn’t even have to ask these kinds of questions, you’d know them already.
I bet we could go through every one of your questions and we could easily answer them. Questions are not evidence, so I hope you didn’t build your conclusion on questions alone.
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@tbrown3356 This isn’t difficult man, try getting a 0 degree angle from a right angle triangle, on a flat surface. 😳 The angle will never reach zero and it will not be a consistent 1 degree every equal distance travelled. You measure the angle from a tangent line on the globe, the stars drop consistently…because the surface curves consistently, changing the angle of that tangent line, relative to the star. This isn’t difficult…but you’re sure doing your best impression of a head trauma victim to make your conclusion work….and worst of all, you’re trying so hard to get us to agree, when your conclusion is so incredibly stupid and ignorant of basic geometry.
It’s cute to pretend you’re having any effect on modern science, with these sad little bouts of attention you seek online, but no…everyone in the entire field of navigation uses the globe model…that’s a fact, not an opinion.
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@synergy082294 I have researched this topic, pretty thoroughly. As well as physics and general Earth science. Do some research on an equipotential surface sometime. Water doesn’t “seek level”, it “seeks” lowest potential energy state, like everything does. In a field of force like gravity, lowest potential energy is closest to centre of gravity as possible. Since gravity emanates out from a centre, it puts water at equipotential distance from centre, forming all mass around that centre, including water…which forms a sphere, the most rigid shape in nature.
Whether you like it or not, you’re not falsifying the globe with your point there, you’re actually doing more to demonstrate your own lack of understanding in basic physics. Same with your point on uniform circular motion. They’re not really arguments, they’re misunderstandings.
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@synergy082294 Science is all about theory, that’s the chosen word to label the most tested and proven concepts within science, that describes HOW phenomena operate at the mechanical level. Not to be confused with a scientific law, which only describes WHAT is occurring, but makes no attempt to understand HOW it happens. Nothing goes beyond theory in science, that’s the reality. Because you will always have more power and control over a system, if you understand HOW it works, rather than just WHAT it does. So, scientific theory’s are as high as all knowledge within science goes. When you go around saying “theory isn’t science”, you’re just demonstrating your scientific illiteracy, again. Why should anyone take seriously, a group of people arguing against science…if they don’t seem to really know anything about science? It’s really no wonder then why you’re reaching so many false conclusions…you’re misunderstanding even the basic language of science.
They were very wise to use that wording for their top conclusions, and here’s why. Whether you like it or not, we will never know everything there is to know. That’s the reality of our situation. So this means that old information will ALWAYS have the potential to change, as new information is acquired. So, we can never conclude anything with absolute certainty…so science doesn’t, it doesn’t think in absolutes, it instead thinks in percentages of certainty. So a theory is the best word to use for our conclusions, because a theory is not rigid or absolute, a theory has room for expansion, room for errors, it even allows us to discard information if it’s later proven false.
That’s why they use that word. They were very wise to do so. Please at least learn the basics, if you’re going to argue against science…otherwise you just end up demonstrating exactly why you’re reaching such false conclusions…because you don’t really know much of anything about it.
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No, that’s not how science works. We do not reach sweeping conclusions on a single experiment alone. As much as people would prefer it be that simple, it will never and should never be that simple, because reality simply is NOT that simple. To help my point; your proposed experiment ignores (or is not aware of) how light actually behaves in atmospheric conditions over distances, namely refraction (bending) and diffraction (scattering). You’re assuming a laser would remain perfectly rigid and straight over great distances, but that’s not the reality, lasers actually refract and diffract by increasing margins, the further it has to travel through any medium, in this case atmosphere.
So it’s not actually a reliable tool to use here. Any physicist, engineer, or surveyor could tell you that, but you’d never know that without their knowledge and experience, so you’d continue to assume your experiment is without flaws….and you’d reach a false conclusion because of that. The only way we combat such errors, is through REPEATED experimentation, through rigorous peer review, from countless other experts of varying fields, with various scopes of knowledge. That’s how science operates, and that’s it should absolutely operate. No single person can reach a scientific conclusion on their own, so they shouldn’t be allowed too. Peer review is vital too reaching actual scientific conclusions, much more than most layman realize.
It actually took great effort to conclude Earth is spherical, thousands of years in fact, we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater from a single erroneous experiment, that you can be assured of.
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@sam-cn9gf The Moon does rotate, that’s why the same side is always facing us. In order for that to happen, it has to rotate as it orbits us…it’s called tidal locking. It’s not rare either, pretty close to every other Moon in our solar system is also tidal locked to their planet…that’s what happens when an orbiting body is very close to their host. Though it’s actually an inevitability of all orbiting satellites and even planets. Mercury is also tidal locked to the Sun. In a few billion years, even Earth will eventually be tidal locked…it’s part of how gravity slowly effects a rotation. It’s very common and it’s expected under gravity physics.
Just because you don’t understand something currently, does not make it false, nor does it imply you can’t still learn it. Currently, I understand the physics of the globe model and it fits observable reality perfectly, really doesn’t take much to verify that either. It’s used in the foundation of pretty much every applied science, from navigation, to engineering, communication and infrastructure….and it all works, that’s not just a coincidence, applied science requires knowledge be accurate, or it doesn’t work. You know how to spot junk science? It’s simple…it doesn’t work and it has no use, besides squeezing a few dollars out of the gullible. Flat Earth has no working model and is not used in any applied science. So it’s not a debate anymore. You fell for an online scam, that’s the reality, and you were happy to believe it without much question, because it helps confirm a bias you have, that being the Christian story of things.
I’ve been chatting with Flat Earthers for about 4 years now, I’ve heard the arguments and I’ve reviewed the supposed evidence. In all that time, there hasn’t been a single claim I haven’t been able to falsify…and with very little effort. Just a basic understanding of physics and geometry and a few simple observations, is all a person needs to debunk Flat Earth. So I’m sorry, but I’m not going to just ignore what I know and have verified for myself, simply because others can’t seem to understand. I don’t mind entertaining other perspectives and conclusions still, I think it’s perfectly fine to ask questions and I try my best not to patronize or be condescending, but it’s pretty simple for me, Flat Earth lacks evidence and a working model that can actually be used in applied science, so it’s pseudoscience.
I don’t care how badly someone wants it to be true, no matter how much it confirms their biased beliefs, no matter how many questions they have. Questions and speculations are not evidence, Flat Earth has no working model, not a single field of applied science uses FE. The globe on the other hand, has actual evidence, has a working model and is used in every field of applied science. That’s the reality.
You know tons of Christians have no problem with marrying their faith and beliefs with our modern knowledge. The Earth being spherical in vast cosmos doesn’t falsify the existence of a God or creation. Most scientists throughout history, and even still today, are actually theists, not atheists. They just prefer to remain objective when it comes to science, because they understood how useless false information is for human advancement.
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@sam-cn9gf You sure say a lot, without saying much at all. You keep saying things in science are a lie, but you really haven’t done anything to prove that claim, just made a lot of empty conjectures, claiming over and over again that they just are. I don’t mind being wrong, but flat Earth has yet to provide anything that actually demonstrates where I and modern science has gone wrong. Evidence is what you’d require for that end, questions are not evidence, neither are speculations and empty claims.
We can speculate all day on why Von Braun put that passage on his tombstone, but speculations are not truth. I would say it’s because he was an astro physicist, which had to do with studying the sky and space above us, the firmament translates to mean “the sky”, so it was a poetic passage that reflected his life’s work, nothing more. You would probably say that he was hinting at the existence of a dome firmament above our heads, a clue left behind to be deciphered. But understand this, both of those are just speculations at the end of the day, and I for one do not reach conclusions on empty speculations alone. I require real evidence…not speculations.
So far you’ve just given me a bunch of questions (good questions, but still only questions), which I’ve answered, and empty speculations/claims….that’s the problem. You seem to think that’s all been good enough. Some people really don’t seem to understand what constitutes as actual evidence anymore and that’s a real problem. I don’t mind being wrong, but you have done nothing so far to prove that I am. But feel free to give me something better, I don’t mind analyzing actual evidence, but so far you haven’t given me any.
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Globe Hoax is just a troll, he doesn’t care what you or anyone has to say, he’s firmly dug into the bullshit, so pretty pointless to even acknowledge him. Just another Flat Earth zombie, helping the huxters seed misinformation.
But yes, it’s extremely delusional to think such an extremely important knowledge like Earth’s geometry, would just slip by billions of people without noticing. Not a single whistle blower in the scientific community…after hundreds of years since the scientific method was established? Millions of successful voyages a year, by plane and ship, all using the same system of navigation designed from the knowledge that Earth is spherical…you’d have to be an extremely paranoid individual, with zero life experience, spending every day in front of a computer screen, with zero understanding of basic geometry, to think these people could do what they do, if the surface geometry they’ve been using this whole time was wrong.
We’re not dealing with rational people in Flat Earth…many of these people belong in padded rooms.
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