Comments by "" (@thehumanity0) on "Benjamin Dixon Tears Apart Jimmy Dore's Embarrassing AOC Rant" video.

@westcoast9285 Are you kidding? I'm not a fan of this video, but it's clearly Dore whose instigating the infighting. He's all over Twitter calling AOC & Justice Dems "sellouts" or "compromised" for simply not seeing eye to eye on strategy. People like David Sirota & others are responding to the extreme hostility from people like Dore, who apparently thrives on chaos & infighting. You're attacking people's intentions who believe in the exact same policies as you. Get your shit together - same goes for Dore who is taking his attacks way too far.
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They're clearly talking about how a M4A vote would have less than a 0% chance of passing successfully. Forcing a vote on it is purely performative, even the people leading on Force the Vote will tell you that. They're saying there are far more substantive things to pass than a simple hope that a No vote on M4A by corporate Democrats will come back to bite them in the midterms (which is the logic that people like Justin Jackson, and I assume Dore, are applying).
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You're ALL fucking embarrassing. The Left is shitting itself right now thanks to this dumbass chaos over a vote that will never pass & likely will have no consequences. Jimmy Dore really knows how to convince a movement to tear itself apart. Only one speaking any sense is Kyle Kulinski pointing out the ridiculous infighting.
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@andrewptob Here is the title of one of Jimmy's most recent videos: "TYT keeps Shamefully Squeezing Followers for Ca$h during Pandemic" with a picture of Cenk Uygar on the thumbnail - literally attacking fellow leftists without even any political point he's trying to make. Attacking their intentions not just politically, but as a channel & their intentions towards their viewers. I'm not sure how you can sit there and say "Dore only criticizes politicians, not YT hosts". Like C'mon man. Jimmy is the biggest shit thrower of them all, & the people following him right now have the emotional maturity of a drunk dad at a teeball game. I advocate, above all else, for an end to the ridiculous infighting, name calling, & leftists smearing leftists, but it's beyond ignorant to claim Jimmy isn't at the center of that. He's right to challenge politicians, but he's doing it like a child & would rather burn bridges than build them.
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@andrewptob That's incredibly false. Jimmy Dore is getting in Twitter fights with people like David Sirota (who is absolutely not a politician & he doesn't even disagree with Force the Vote) & even on Dore's own Youtube he's creating videos taking direct shots at Cenk Uygar (definitely not a politician) & claiming he's spreading lies, as if fellow leftists are operating in bad faith and/or "sold out" as he baselessly says all the time. The issue isn't the M4A vote itself, it's the level of Dore & others emotional maturity to be serious about actually getting things done in politics - something we have to be united over to actually achieve. As of now, there is very little to go around & there is just nonstop leftist infighting that makes us all look like Fools. People have forgotten that the goal of politics is to ultimately help people, not act like a club of exclusive edgelords.
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@benk79 From what I've seen Jimmy has been extremely toxic for the Left lately. Basically attacking everyone's intentions & baselessly accusing them of being bad faith actors because they dared to disagree with him on strategy & debate him on the merits of a symbolic M4A vote. It got so bad that the people who agree with him on Force the Vote came out & started saying "certain people" need to stop attacking other Leftists, calling everyone 'sellouts', & have some emotional maturity if they're serious about pressuring politicians. I myself actually support leveraging Pelosi's vote (or not voting for her at all), but this shit is not hard to understand. Challenging your politicians = GOOD, maligning everyone that disagrees with you = BAD. Smearing everyone's intentions as bad faith for a reasonable disagreement in strategy = BAD & counter-productive to your own goals. Everyone should be united on this front, but that's literally never going to happen with the way Dore is conducting this shitshow. I hope people realize this before Dore successfully fractures us into even more pieces, making us even easier to oppose in Washington. I also visited his channel lately & noticed that he's devolved into attacking people like Cenk Uygar directly, making videos about how he's "shamefully squeezing money out of his followers" & attacking their intentions as a fellow Leftist YT channel. He's even attacked people like David Sirota, who actually agrees with Force the Vote, but because he called the M4A vote "performative" at one point, he got attacked & maligned as a 'white moderate' trying to hinder progressive. This shit is utterly childish & absurd. I can't believe people are going along with this foolish nonsense. Jimmy is going to lead the Left into the ground &, by my estimates, he honestly doesn't give a shit if he blows up the Leftist movement in the process (I think he'd rather have that than people still supporting Justice Dems & a Leftist takeover of the Democratic Party).
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He literally just gave him credit on the leveraging the vote idea. He's disagreeing with him now & criticizing him for substantive reasons. I have no idea why people act like Dore's shit is gold, but it's completely reasonable to agree with a reasonable idea & still understandable to criticize him for taking it way too far.
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It literally will not pass in either the House or the Senate, not even a little. Do you even understand why some people want to push for the vote? It's strictly for performative reasons & hoping there will be a backlash effect against Dems that vote against it. Virtue signaling isn't going to do anything except make you look uninformed about the topic.
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@ellenstonehill678 Yes, some people who don't watch Kyle get the first impression he's in the same category as Dore, but he's not. He's one of the most sensible people imo. I don't agree with everything he says or all his opinions, but it's unquestionable he cares about the future of Leftist politics, & when the infighting got absurd & gross on Twitter, he was one of the only people telling everyone to stop attacking each others intentions & chill the f*ck out. Kyle also believes in Forcing the Vote, but he's not attacking AOC & the Justice Democrat's intentions & making baseless claims that they're operating in bad faith - something Matt Orfalea has literally been making videos about on Twitter bordering on misinformation from what I've seen (there are better, more productive, & more truthful ways to pressure Leftist politicians than simply calling them sellouts & "compromised" because of differences in strategy on a vote that hasn't even happened yet). when Kyle talks about Progressive politicians leveraging their votes for Pelosi, he at least explains their reluctance to do so comes from a disagreement in strategy & a hesitance from not having the numbers yet to hold your weight. AOC & Justice Dems don't take corporate or lobbyist money & anyone paying attention can see them fighting for Leftist policy nearly every day in a multitude of ways, either on Twitter, on amendments, or on bills that actually have a chance of passing such as $2,000 stimulus checks. Hyper-focusing on a M4A vote when the numbers just aren't there & claiming nothing else in their records matter is either extreme ignorance or they're stretching the truth just to pressure these people who are on our side policy-wise & would likely listen to us without the hateful mob mentality. This is all coming from someone who is actually very adamant about withholding votes from Pelosi, but people are taking this too far by attacking, smearing & undermining the few politicians that represent us on policy just because they have a fair & reasonable disagreement on strategy at best, & a lack of courage to take on political powerhouses alone at worst. Either way, degrading yourselves to infighting, smears, & growing the divisions on the Left is almost certainly counter-productive to the real goals at play. Everyone needs to calm down & get on the same page, because we all want the same things.
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What Cornel West said is very different from what Dore is doing. Dore is pre-maturely calling AOC & Justice Democrats all "sellouts" & compromised liars for a vote that is not even decided yet (& honestly has far less importance than people are admitting) & a difference in strategy on the issue of a M4A vote that is purely symbolic & may or may not lead to future electoral victories in the distant midterms. Cornel West, on the other hand, has hope that AOC & the other Leftists in the House will do all they can to get concessions from Pelosi. He actually believes they're fighting for the right things & has hope for them, unlike Dore who has maligned AOC & Justice Dems since Day 1 & will continue to do so even after this vote & even if they get solid concessions from the House Speaker that either gain power for the Left or provide substantive change for workers in some capacity that is not just performative in nature.
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@Anti-NED_ProBRICS Debated on Twitter? Twitter? Also, David Sirota agreed with leveraging the vote & Jimmy Dore still attacked him. He's guiltier than anyone when it comes to instigating Leftist infighting over a vote that literally has no chance at passing & one McConnell himself wanted to have just to give the Left a black eye.
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@l.w.paradis2108 A backlash effect is the ONLY realistic outcome you mentioned & can hope for. Everything else you're saying is unicorns & fairy dust. However, corporate Democrats have been voting terribly for their entire careers & are still in Washington. You think this is gonna be some kind of smoking gun, but there is no evidence to show it will be anymore of a backlash than when half the Democrats vote for Trump's bloated military budget every year. Elizabeth Warren was the only one ever negatively effected by her vote on Trump's military budget & last time I checked she's still a Senator & not even close to being primaried by a real lefty. All this screaming & chaos over one vote that doesn't have a prayer of passing or even being a little close, a vote that McConnell himself nearly had a vote on just to give the Left a black eye. In return for this amazing strategy, all we needed to do was let Jimmy Dore convince us all to tear ourselves apart & create wide divisions between people who largely agree on policy. First time ever I've been embarrassed to be a Leftist. You people have lost your shit & all I see from everyone is desperation & idiocy - that goes for people on both sides of this debate, but your side is being especially hostile & absurdly aggressive to the point of looking like children. Sorry, but you're never going to convince me any of this shit is either healthy or productive in the least bit. I recommend you rethink your approach, because as of now, all this is going to do is create chaos & division between groups of people who have the least amount of power & influence in DC.
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@l.w.paradis2108 I really don't care what you do. If you seriously believe a M4A vote will pass right now, you have no awareness of US politics at all. Both Trump & Biden back $1200 stimulus & we likely won't even get that. It's complete delusion to think a M4A vote would pass, much less pass the Senate & then either presidents that don't support it & have sworn to veto it. Or a Supreme Court that have come out & said they would shoot it down. Trying to "Force" a M4A vote without proper representation in DC to get it passed successfully is a colossal losing battle. Only reason I'm even discussing the passing of M4A (& not the performative angle of it) is because you seem to believe it's possible, which even the leaders of ForceTheVote will tell you, it's not about that & there's less than a 0% chance it actually passes. when it come to the performative consequences, it's still a gamble whether the vote would have positive or negative repercussions (or whether it would do anything at all), which is why leveraging for other positions of power & other amendments to help workers during the pandemic makes FAR more sense & actually does provide a certainty for positive substantive change, not just a gamble on whether we might get cultural change & that might somehow influence the next midterms.
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@Adagiowellness K, I'm just gonna ignore the "mansplain" thing that you randomly brought up. If the vote is about "accountability", why are you even assuming that the Democrats you want to hold to account will even vote against it? Medicare for All is in no way passing even if every one of its co-signers voted in favor of it. So my question is, why would they vote against it when it's not even gonna be close to passing even with all their votes? This whole thing is about a win-win scenario from what I've heard, but from what I can gather, there is no "win" if M4A doesn't pass (which is inevitable) & simultaneously if none of the cosigners "expose" themselves aka they all vote for the bill even though they might not if it were actually in jeopardy of passing. I see this as a sizable hole in the logic being employed. If this were to happen, then there would be largely no added benefits from the vote. Honestly, I don't see a symbolic M4A vote as the most effective compromise to get from Pelosi, & I'm not even sure they should vote for Pelosi at all.
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@jedi77palmer I agree about the fighting point. I think I've made my position clear that I'm extremely against the infighting & 'fuck off' attitude of people that were pushing Force the Vote & took their attacks way too far, Dore included. I'm not only against it because it's unhealthy for Leftist politics & the future of the Left, but because the way they were going about it was incredibly counter-productive if your goal is to win over Progressive congress members & have them act in accordance. I mean, Dore's strategy to "Force the vote" was basically to call AOC & junior Congress members sellouts, liars, & frauds up-front & were stoking anger & smearing them as corrupt & all this was done BEFORE THE VOTE OCCURED. Kyle Kulinski was one of the only people to point this out as a problem, but at least one person was telling people that attacking them as "sellouts" or "liars" is a terrible way to win them over & get everyone on the same strategy, especially when they actually believe in the same policies; they simply disagree with the strategy. Even if you think they're wrong to disagree with the strategy, calling them corrupt or whatever is just baselessly smearing them & only going to shut them off to your ideas even more. Now as a result of this huge frenzy, you have loads of Leftists being de-politicized to stop focusing on inner-Dem politics, which is an giant mistake because the Dems have a super-majority as of now & the Left needs all the activists it can get. If you go on Twitter you can see all the "Force the Vote" people claiming they're done with Dem politics & saying they won't back progressive members anymore, despite the fact that they removed the PayGo restrictions on Leftists policies (one of the concessions they got) & the next logical step after that is a Green New Deal, Tuition Free College, & yes, Universal Healthcare (despite that being the hardest thing to pass by far). In summary, the push to pressure our politicians to do better is GOOD, but taking it way too far, baselessly accusing corruption or bad faith intentions, & burning your bridges with the only politicians that agree with us while simultaneously de-politicizing people with this nonstop smear campaign Dore ran is all extremely unhealthy for the Left all-around, especially now that it's imperative we fight the corporate Democrats & push for leftist policies for the next 2 years (which has just begun, yet the Dore people are acting like it all just ended with a simple Speaker vote).
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@l.w.paradis2108 Me getting struck by lightning right now is also slim, but not zero. That's not a good argument & the probability is overwhelmingly against you on this. The M4A vote is for performative & potentially electoral reasons, it is not a action for immediate or sudden change, but a hope that it will reflect badly on some Democrats in the distant future - something that is wildly debatable since the popular policy is always on our side in these primary races, yet we still only knock off a few corporate Dems at a time due to the monetary & systemic disadvantages put into place by both parties. Either way, the infighting & growing divisions caused by some people around this debate are counter-productive & not worth the uncertain electoral changes (good or bad) that won't come into play for a year & a half still.
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@l.w.paradis2108 I don't even know wtf you're talking about anymore. Talking about pandemic deniers? whatever. & I'm not "protecting politicians from infighting", I'm saying the infighting is bad for everyone, causing a cohesive & united "Not Me, Us" national movement to degrade to bickering children who can't agree on a strategy & start attacking each others intentions & motives despite all agreeing on the same policies & our supported politicians sworn to refuse corporate & lobbyist campaign contributions. I'll reiterate: you and everyone else need to get your shit together & get on the same page because this bickering & infighting is only good for your enemies who love it when they can divide & conquer. They were scared of Bernie's movement, now it's almost certain they're laughing & smiling at the further breakdown of the Left. Fighting Neoliberals & leveraging Pelosi's vote = good. Attacking each other & calling one another sellouts or grifters = dumb & counterproductive. This is not complicated to understand.
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@jedi77palmer I'm gonna assume this is a serious question, but you should know that even the people that were leading on Force the Vote were stating up-front that the reason for the vote was not because they thought the bill would pass, but because they wanted it as ammunition against other Democrats in the future that would vote against it. So the idea that it may or may not actually pass, is not even up for rational debate - it simply won't. Realistically, the Dems only have a slim 9 seat majority in the House. That means out of 222 Dems, you would only need 9 Dems to vote against Medicare for All to kill the bill & leave it dead on arrival (don't even expect 1 single Republican to cross the aisle, evidence being the House vote on Romneycare under Obama that didn't get 1 Rep vote). Out of those 222 Dems, you only have a handful of progressives that are actually serious about voting for it & would vote for it no matter what, & then you have the complete group of cosigners (this is very likely the only people who have a chance of voting for the bill) & even if you got every single one of the cosigners to vote on the bill, which is an unlikely scenario, you'd still be off by hundreds of votes needed to simply get M4A to pass the House. But say, by some miracle, it somehow magically passes the House, it's even far less likely to pass the Senate & then Joe Biden has already said point-blank that he would just veto a bill for Single Payer Healthcare. The idea of it actually passing is not a realistic notion even in the slightest. Given all that information, I'm still not saying that it's not worth doing, my main point however is that it's not worth ONLY getting that as a concession when there are more solid concessions that can be squeezed out of Pelosi & it's absolutely NOT worth fighting over & burning all the Left's bridges or smearing the politicians in our corner as somehow corrupt or having bad faith intentions when that's not even true & they actually agree with us on policy, but simply disagree on strategy. I believe the idea behind Force the Vote was good, but the way Dore & others went about it was honestly counterproductive & only caused more riffs on the Left that will just make us weaker in the long-term. Even Kyle Kulinski, one of the leaders of Force the Vote, has since come out & said that the over-the-top attacks & vapid infighting is entirely counter-productive in every way.
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@Bovice..YT-handles-are-fn-dumb Everyone is nothing but opinions, Jimmy Dore more than anyone. The difference is that Kyle deeply cares about the future of Left politics & he's one of the most principled & rational people on the Left - the reason he's advising people to calm down & stop burning bridges since the Left is stronger when it's united & not at each others throats over strategy disagreements.
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@l.w.paradis2108 "wtf" is common slang on the internet. If you don't like it, then you should probably log off or at least stop talking to people in Youtube comments. It's ironic because you should see the kind of colorful things Jimmy Dore is saying about AOC & Justice Democrats (& has been for years), yet you're here claiming "swearing is what people do when they've been exposed". This conversation is getting utterly ridiculous now that you're trying to do gotchas over decorum, so I'm done. Have a nice day.
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