Comments by "AWResistance" (@AlanWattResistance) on "BBC News"
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@emilyscloset2648
"being gay is very much within the order of nature"
I don't doubt that some animals may also be afflicted with homosexuality, like i said earlier, it's a deviation, produced through either pre-birth or post-birth environmental factors. It simply being found in nature does not mean it was intended to occure, nor does that justify participation, seeing as humans have the ability to reason, the ability to differeniate between right and wrong.
"Why should it matter what two consenting adults do within the law within the privacy of their home?"
I never said it did, i'm absolutely for that right, but the problem is when you bring your lifestyle onto the street (pride parades), onto the television (inappropriate), into the sacred realm of the family (marriage, adoption), and finally, into the classroom (indoctrinating children). By all means keep it behind closed doors and i'll defend your natural rights to the death.
"be used to preach anything other than love?"
This is the message of love. Adherence to the law of nature, that was instituted by God, is the best and only lifestyle to be admired. It was done for our ultimate good, it's why we were made in the first place. No one can become internally awakened to God while living a life of sin, a certain level of asceticism is required for our salvation.
And yes, love is love, God is love.
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Himanshu Kumar The BBC are traitors to the British people, and there's nothing positive about having your culture and your future destroyed by people who claim to represent the country. I'm actually anti-eugenics, abortion is eugenics, and i always speak out against it.
I doubt you live in England, but those of us that do are sick of the lies, corruption, immorality, selfishness, faithlessness, aggression, oppression, indoctrination and stupidity. We're sick of the culture, sick of the twisted morals, sick of the inversion of everything that is truly good and wholesome. The soul of England is dying.
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"Teach men not to rape"
The most absurd statement pushed by the man-haters. All men know rape is wrong, even rapists, but rapists do it anyway, so what the point in 'teaching men' what they already know? A rapist rapes despite knowing it's wrong, so what do you propose? Minority report? The only reason a rape happens is because the rapist willed it to happen, and that cannot be prevented by simply telling him it's wrong beforehand, he already knows it's wrong, so it cannot be policed, so prevention is the only possible solution.
And these women are so detached from the opposite sex that they actually believe men just go around raping women because they don't have any conception of boundaries or consent, it's ridiculous. They don't understand or know men at all. We need consent classes as much as we need classes teaching men not to murder, i.e: Never.
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@paulgibbons2320 "Religion attacks that" Nonsense, Catholicism has always embraced logic when it comes to the natural world, but uses 'faith' when dealing with the metaphsyical. You can be both a scientist and a Christian, there is no contradiction there. You might say "it's stupid to believe in fictions", but almost everyone believes in fictions, for example: nation states are fictions, currency is a fiction, etc......Fictions are just something mutually agreed upon, but which may not exist in reality, or exist but cannot be measured and observed by empiricism.
It's almost impossible to raise a child free of some kind of fiction or propaganda, even atheists will tell their children "religion is stupid" or "there is no god", without letting the child weigh up the evidence for themselves.
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@Arfur Fuxxakes God instituted nature at the beginning, which follows it's own natural laws. A virus is the unintended consequence of space and time. Space and time is requisite for change; change necessary for free choice; free choice with progress and development. For free will to become possible, then so too comes the possibility of evil and suffering, and inevitable death. So if you want the ability to reject God, then you must also accept the possibility of suffering and death. That was the choice made by Adam and Eve. You can't have it both ways.
As for the death of babies: Babies are intended to grow into adulthood, hence why the vast majority do (praise God). And my belief is that innocent babies are automatically recieved into heaven, due to their innocence or lack of ability to sin.
As for your atheism leading to hell: Ask yourself: Why would God embrace someone who won't recognise His blessings, but then gets blamed for when these blessings are removed? When was the last time you thank God for living to see another day? You blame God for the unfortunate deaths of babies (not the fault of God), but you support abortion (the fault of man). Is that hypocrisy i see?
As for religion about controlling the 'weak-minded': I'll quote Thomas Kempis: "Who is forced to struggle more than he who tries to master himself?". You'll find some religious have the strongest minds.
As for religions being wealthy: That's a simple one. Many people throughout the centuries (especially those without children) have left their entire wealth and property to the church. Some did so because they wanted to help the Church help others, but some did so under the notion that it would gain them favour with God.
As for looking at the world we live in: As someone well acquainted with ancient history, the modern world is now largely a paradise in comparison.
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bioiclebenable,
The slaying of the dragon is an obvious metaphor. The dragon is a symbol of human nature, which is inclined to sins like anger, greed, lust, etc..... The overcoming of the dragon is be born a new man, a Christ-man, one who walks the spiritual road to enlightenment. Basically it's about overcoming our lower nature as animals to pursue virtue and wisdom.
I like the England flag because it's a symbol of Christ: The cross is the cross, the white represents purity (Christ lived a sinless life), and the red represents sacrifice (Christ shed his blood to redeem mankind). But i much prefer Saint Edmund for patron saint of England, afterall he died a martyr in England itself.
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@ckaybit
"Should we hide singles too then?"
No, but singles should remain celebate.
"couples that choose not to get kids"
No, because couples who choose not have children can have children, they can still change their mind or have an 'accident'.
"we should tell religious/ethnic minorities to hide all traces of their identity and assimilate to the majority"
I never said that. I said keep it behind closed doors. The problem is when minority groups try and claim equal status with the majority, note that i said status as opposed to worth. All people are of equal worth, but not equal status. Trying to usurp the throne by infiltrating the sacred realm of the family (marriage, children) cannot be tolerated.
"you should mind your business and let people live their life"
I do mind my business, but you people don't keep your lifestyle behind closed doors, you parade it in our faces and bully us into accepting it. I would love to mind my own business, but you won't let me.
"you have absolutely no say over who marries who unless both parties consent and are adults"
By your logic siblings can also get married. Consent alone isn't enough to determine sexual morality, and as England is a Christian country with an established church, yes, we can oppose the oxymoron "gay marriage".
"nature has no will so it can't intend something."
Question: Why do gay men produce semen if they are not a deviation from being straight? What use would a gay man have for semen? Gay people are not a seperate class of human, they are a deviation from normality. Gays were originally intended to be born normal (hence the ability to produce semen) but something went wrong in the processing which makes them attracted to what is not conducive.
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@s.tagerius2514
"Regardless of who the Bible's instructions are intended for is irrelevant. The fact that it permits anybody at all to possess slaves is simply evil."
This is you speaking with historical hindsight, and ironically using Christian ethics to denounce it.
As for slavery, again, your historical knowledge is severly lacking. In the ancient world slavery was split into two types: voluntary slavery and involuntary slavery. The latter for a conquored enemy, the former for those too poor to sustain themselves within your own community. As the ancient world had no concept of social welfare, in return for food and shelter many poor people sold themselves to their neighbours as slaves, or to use the proper term: 'indentured servants'. But indentured servants had to be able to go free after seven years of free labour. As for slaves of a conquored enemy, it was either slavery, prison or death. As you couldn't leave a hostile enemy intent on making you a slave or killing everyone in your community, and as prisons didn't exist, slavery was the next option. Am i justifying slavery? No, just putting it into historical context, and in the modern world slavery can never be justified. If the Jews didn't defeat their enemies, they would have ended up dead or slaves themselves. It's easy to judge history from the comfort of modern infrastructure.
Jesus said: "render unto caesar what is caesar's and unto god what is god's" i.e: 'I'm not here to directly challenge established institutions like slavery [he wasn't a revolutionary], i'm here to indirectly change established norms by changing the hearts of individual people.'
"Jesus may have been a person who advocated for love, but the Bible itself definitely does not."
You do realise that many books of the Bible are describing history? It's descriptive, not prescriptive, or only prescribed at that specific time and place.
"If people don't obey God, the Bible says they will not inherit the Kingdom of God"
Again, descriptive, not prescriptive. It's no different than saying: "If you don't get enough vitamin C you'll get scurvy'. It's not telling you to eat more citrus fruits, it's simply stating that if you don't you'll regret it. So it actually does give you the choice, therefore compatible with individual liberty, infact, it's the very author of it in the Western world.
"Islam definitely doesn't allow freedom, but nor does Christianity. None of the Abhramic religions do."
Incorrect.
Muslims believe they are the judge, jury and executioner of sin.
Christians believe God is the only judge, jury and executioner of sin.
This is the very foundation of the society you live in.
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A creator God does exist, you just haven't met him yet.
I said gain self-knowledge. By studying yourself you'll find out exactly who and what you are, only then can you begin the journey towards knowing God.
My 'guy in the sky' wants everyone to be fit and healthy, which is why the vast majority of us are. Children getting bone-cancer is an unintended consequence of living in this world. It's an aberration, not an intended goal.
If my God is real, i owe him full praise and honour for my very existence, because existence itself is a good.
And it's nice to know that your objection to 'my god' is simply because you believe he is sadistic, because in reality you hate this world and it's sufferings as much as i do, but instead of reaching out to God for consolation, you rage against your maker by lying to yourself that he doesn't exist. The good we have in life stems from God, the bad from the world, but you blame God for the bad and attribute the good to yourself, you have everything in reverse.
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Sven Tempest Have you ever seen me deliberately target an individual and then hate that person? I only ever speak in general terms, i never attack the individual, so you can refrain from judging me.
As an example to show my perspective:
As a parent, is giving a child who wants a second, third or fourth chocolate bar an act of kindness? Surely not, but you're denying the child what it wants and making them sad for denying it to them. But if you allow your child more than one chocolate bar on more than one occassion, you will do serious damage to the longterm health of the child. So, telling that child "no" is therefore a loving act. I'm simply telling people who need to hear it: "no", and i'm doing out of love for their spiritual health. Sometime people need to hear the truth, and they also need restraint. So in actual fact, it's people liek you who are not truly loving your neighbour, you placate harm.
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@paulgibbons2320 "Ethics and empathy existed along time before Christianity."
I agree, but the difference is that Christianity applies an obligation to be empathetic; it's a moral duty. In Christianity you don't get to side-step your own conscience by making excuses (which are easy to make).
One of the two 'great commandments' is to "love your neighbour as yourself". You can choose not to of course, but it will come with eternal consequences.
Remember what it says in Matthew 25:40-43: "And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’ Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me."
Inaction is no excuse, which is why Dante placed the indifferent in the vestibule of hell.
Witch trials were sporadic and usually occured during a time of crisis (The witch trials in England occured during and shortly after the English civil war). The crusades were justfied. Clerical child abuse cannot be justified, but many internal reports point to homosexual priests as being the main culprits, but that was never reported by the mainstream media. The link between homsexuality and peadophilia won't go down very well with Liberals.
"How come most Atheists I know do a better job of applying Christian ethics than Christians do?"
One of the atributes of God is goodness, God is goodness itself, therefore anyone who is good possesses God. So an atheist, who is a good ethical Christian, can be boldly called a cultural and ethical Christian. Early Christians use to refer to Plato as a 'Christian before Christ', for his teachings.
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@Jamie_Johnson We all know the vast majority of western atheists are culturally and ethically Christian. Very few, if any, act as if a God doesn't exist. Morality, or the obligation to a moral code, is null and void without the standard institutued by religion, you know this, so why be disingenuous? Our entire legal system is based upon the Christian idea that all life is sacred and worthy of protection (King Alfred's law code). This is why if you die under suspicious circumtances, your death will be investigated. It's also why we perform an autopsy on the recently deceased: to rule out foul play. In pre-Christian Europe, murder was punished solely by a fine, known as the 'wirgild', which was based upon the price of your labour. Life was cheap and held no significance. In the atheistic soivet union we saw a return to this monsterous way of thinking.
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@Jamie_Johnson
"the behaviours we encourage when living communally and within societies" Ancient societies prove you wrong. Sparta certainly didn't encourage these things within their own children. In fact, they actually taught their children how to steal without being caught, as part of their training. And as we we're once dominated by Christianity (it was actually mandated), atheist parents unconsciously instill these old Christian ideas into their children, as it was done them, without acknowledging their origins.
If the Nazis were Christians, then they were bad Christians. But i think it has more to do with them being German than Christian. Even the Romans were afraid of the German tribes for their ferocity.
"genocides that are directly attributed to religion" It's almost as if religious people are people, shocking i know. People can be induce to savagery for all kinds of reasons: politics, money, land and even over sport, of all things. Again, human nature.
I use to be a white nationalist before becoming a Christian. Back then i hated anyone who wasn't white, now i hate no one, not even annoying atheists. So i for one prove your assertion wrong.
"magical cloud men!" Again, i'm not a pagan. There are no cloud men!
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+Brian Johnson,
"stories written to control the masses" No, metaphors used to guide people to become more virtuous. Despite what you might think humanity is not inherently good, in fact, we're largely self-serving and can be down-right evil at times. Anyone who has studied ancient history knows this well.
The reality is that you yourself are ethically and culturally Christian, whether you acknowledge this or not. You grew up in a Christian society and your mind has been shaped by Christian presuppositions. You yourself are controlled by presuppositions that you cannot account for outside of a Christian worldview. The only true atheist therefore is a nihilist.
So yeah, 'the masses' need controlling, because if they're not guided towards becoming virtuous, then you get absolute chaos and destruction (see modern Britain).
As for the tithe, this is not an obligation, but nice try.
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+Brian Johnson,
"Animals show compassion without Christianity"
Animals can be compassionate, true, but they can also rip your throat out for no apparent reason. Even a dog will hump (rape) your leg without permission. Looking to the animal kingdom isn't helping your argument Brian.
"It doesn't take a God to know that raping, owning a slave, stoning, insest, and murder are bad"
Yes and no, our natural reason and our conscience tell us it's wrong, but the problem is, any society or any individual can very easily side-step their own reason and conscience if it's beneficial to himself. The obligation to NOT side-step the conscience comes directly from Christianity. Adherence to the conscience in Christianity is obligatory, and this is revolutionary in human history. Just read the histories of ancient Greece, or closer to our own time, Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, to see how easily it can be done.
"But your God condones all those things"
Jesus didn't condone rape, slavery, stoning, incest or murder. In fact, Christ reaffirmed that sex outside of a marriage is immoral. He didn't speak about slavery, but never endorsed it. He stopped a prostitute from being stoned "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". He didn't speak about incest, but never endorsed it. And Jesus not only spoke out against murder, but said that even thinking about it was a sin. As for the Old Testement, these were temporary laws imposed for a specific purpose, which passed with the coming of Christ.
"And yes I've read your book. It's the easiest way to become an ATHEIST."
I've probably read it more times than you and i'm fairly secure in my faith. Unlike yourself, i actually tried to understand it by putting in the necessary time and effort.
"If you think that all the animals from the earth that rely on eating other animals, different regions and waters (lake vs ocean) can gather on a boat and survive with no science to back up the fallacies than you're just too far into magic"
The person who wrote the account was thinking only of his specific region. In ancient times distances seemed much larger than they are today, so the author of the text probably thought that the flood affected the whole world, the 'known world' to himself, but didn't know otherwise. You're reading it far too literally and seem to forget that the Bible was written by men, divinely inspired men, but men nontheless.
"Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter are true stories as well."
Yes they are. These books reuse classical and religious themes but have simply placed them within a new narrative. The themes are true despite being placed in a fictional narrative. Just because good and evil are explored within fiction, doesn't make good and evil fictional concepts.
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+ Brian Johnson
"You bow down to a God who will send me to eternity in a pit of fire for refusing to believe in him"
What is hell? Being cast in hellfire, or as Jesus often put it: 'cast into outer darkness', is a metaphor for non-existence. It simply means that after death you will die with an unreformed soul, which means you cannot inherit eternal life beyond. God doesn't cast people into hell, YOU cast yourself into hell through your own pride and arrogance. You won't humble or silence yourself enough to let God enter your heart. God is providing you a way out of being 'cast into outer darkness', this is an act of love of His part, but you refuse to accept it. Your the fool.
"I can't think if one thing I've possibly done in this lifetime worthy of that punishment"
Can you think on one thing you've done to be given the wonderful gift of being born a human capable of higher reasoning and being able to contemplate your existence? God gave the gift which you take for granted, God gave you the very ability to curse him, lol, "shall the clay rise up in pride against him that fashioned it?". God isn't going to cast you into hell, you will simply go back into the nothingness from which God made you out of. He's simply taking back his gift which you defiled and refused to use for the glory it's maker.
"And even if I were to suddenly accept Jesus I would then enter the kingdom of Heaven full of people I didn't want to spend my life while my true friends are burning"
No, you would enter into a brotherhood of love, forever surrounded by those who were entirely selfless and righteous during this lifetime. Your friends may get there still, depending on their level of internal reformation. Do you have to accept Jesus in order to get to heaven? Not necessarily, remember that during the resurrection Christ spent three days in 'Hell' releasing those 'Christians before Christ' or 'virtuous pagans' who were lost in limbo because Christ had yet to be born. Limbo is not quite hell, more somewhere inbetween. So no, not all your good friends, who are probably ethically and culturally Christian, will go onto eternal punishment or non-existence.
"I want you to have a great life full of love and happiness. I choose to find this through family and friends."
Thankyou, i wish that for you too. I personally found that happiness not in family or friends, i found it in God. Friends and family may let you down and will eventually die, which is the common lot of all mankind, but God is a faithful friend until the end. I want people to experience the same and go onto eternal life, my intentions are only for the good of all people.
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@SCI_WALKER It's not fascist to recognise and adhere to natural law. Pushing 'equality' actually leads to totalitarianism because it has to be imposed upon society by the state from the top-down, whereas Christianity creates self-reliant people who police their own conscience, without the state, from the bottom-up. You'll learn this very soon.
"A society which tries to keep its citizens in 'perpetual childhood': it will seek to preserve their happiness, but it chooses to be the sole agent and only arbiter of that happiness. Society will develop a new type of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate ... it does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to be nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which government is the shepherd" - de Tocqueville
Welcome to the modern world.
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@judegrindvoll8467 I normally would agree, but when boys are denigrated at home, at school, in movies, in games, on television, and then when grown up: in university, in the workplace, by female friends, by wives, by society itself, it begins to wear a man down. His self-worth begins to dwindle and his entire existence as a man brought into question. His effort are reduced to naught by power of the state working tirelessly in favour of women. Some men get lucky of course, but many do not, and those numbers are increasing.
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Sven Tempest
"as soon as the scientific method is applied to some hot button topic, you throw science aside"
That's not what I'm doing at all. The scientific method does not and cannot determine the ethics of something. As G. K. Chesterton wrote: "A madman is not someone who has lost his reason, a madman is someone who has lost everything but his reason". The trope of the mad scientist has a basis in reality. I bet even Harold Shipman thought he was doing some good by killing off elderly people.
The science can say what it says, but the only thing that needs to be known is this: If it was not for that act of aggression in the womb against the unborn, it would have grown into a viable human baby. This is not like wasting sperm or an egg, this was a seperate and distinct life in the rudementary stages of its life. To end that life is a wicked moral crime, and it's justifaction cannot be called anything other than pure evil, for afterall: "even satan masquerades as an angel of light". You're blinded by cold facts and figures, and the word of a man in a white lab coat, the new priesthood of a godless generation.
And it's amazing how wrong you are about me. You may think i only believe what i do to spite 'lefties' or to simply win an argument, but i actually DO believe what i write. I've thought very deeply about them and if you can prove me wrong, then do so, i'm listening.
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Sven Tempest
"It's almost as though, all you really want, is to argue. Until you feel like you won. Usually by the other person getting bored of your childish tantrums.."
How do you know it isn't you who really wants to argue, and feel as if you've won, and having a tantrum? How do you know this isn't just projection? Yes, I want to 'win' because i know if i don't that lies and misinformation then spread like wildfire, consuming the dry minds of the impulsive and uninformed.
And yeah, of course it's 'feelings over facts', but in ethics it's about upholding reasonable objections to unethical practises, not an irrational disregard of evidence to suit an ideological agenda. I feel it's wrong to murder the disabled, but you can make all sorts of reasonable arguments to why it's ok to 'put them out of their misery' or to 'decrease the surplus population', or to 'save state funds for more worthwhile projects and recipients'. The mad scientist is a rational entity, he's just devoid of feeling.
And a coma patient meets the same criteria for abortion of an unborn 'fetus' in the second trimester. "He isn't conscious" therefore it's ok to end his life, afterall, he's just a burden.
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@ Vesolus,
I'm all for scientific empirical evidence, but the study of the natural world is only half of the answer.
G. K. Chesterton once wrote: "A madman is not someone who has lost his reason, but someone who has lost everything but his reason". This quote perfectly reveals why religion and philosophy are as much a necessity as scientific enquiry. Man cannot live on facts alone, many who have done so have rationalised their way to absolute evil, which is nicely displayed in the novel Crime and Punishment by Dostoyevsky.
People who spread the idea that religion is now an unneccesary 'crutch' have never lived in a society free of religious belief. As i've pointed out in other comments, very few people are consistently atheistic; most atheists are ethically Christian, whether they acknowledge it or not, and if they weren't, it wouldn't be the utopia they think it would.
"As societies develop religious attendance drops."
But religious thinking does not. Even the least religious countries (Scandinavian) are not without their superstition and ideology. These countries have simply replaced religion with statism and a Leftist superstition, and paganism is the fastest growing religion there. Atheism in Scandinavia just opened the door to even more superstition.
The evidence for God is in the human heart: "from the knowledge of myself i shall go onwards to the knowledge of God." Belief in God is mystically discovered, which is why God is described as: "Deeply hidden yet intimately present". This is something for each individual to discover, the church is simply the guide.
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@Vesolus
"You claim that empirical evidence is not enough and I say that is not good enough."
And that's entirely your volition, which is why Christians don't force people to believe (Islam on the other hand...). I'm merely making the argument that less religion does not necessarily equal more reason, but even if it did, that reason alone isn't enough to create social cohesion or prevent bloodshed. You can keep our Christian ethics if you like (best of luck to you), but when a generation arises which says: "Why keep up the pretence?", then don't complain when the beast is unleashed, we're starting to see this happening already.
"You make connections where there are only correlations and you misrepresent culture as religion."
No, no, no. Don't get me wrong here. I fully understand the different between nature and grace, faith and reason, i never conflated the two. When i talk about culture and ethics i'm talking about natural law (which we believe was instituted by God, but exists despite God and religion). Atheists could come to the same conclusions as Christians regarding morality, but you cannot apply obligations to morality. An atheist can say: "stealing is wrong" but can still find a way to justify stealing using reason, a Christian can say: "stealing is wrong" but can never justify the act because the very act itself is wrong and actively harms the soul of the individual. This is why your plan will ultimately fail in the long run.
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"Your obsessive belief deprives you of the very humanity that would forgive a starving child for stealing bread and I do not envy your blindness."
Ah yes, starvation (alongside plague and war), reveal perfectly the savage nature of mankind. For example, the plague in Athens during the Peloponnesian war, the 'Black Death' during the medieval era and the famine of Jerusalem during the Jewish war, are all a witness to mankind's inherent self-serving nature, and to what depths a man will stoop to obtain the bare essentials and prolong his life a few moments more. In times of famine people have killed and eaten their own children (see the Jewish war), such are the wonders of mankind when all pretense of honour and virtue are forcibly removed by necessity. Although having said all that, you shouldn't read too much into my example of stealing, it was only an example to prove a point.
"All I'm saying is that your beliefs are stupid as they are based in traditions that no longer play a useful role in society."
My faith is personal, therefore my 'stupidity' is self-contained. My ethics, on the other hand, are logically sound, and therefore stand firm in the face of opposition. However, Christian morality only makes sense and can only become obligatory when placed with the context of a higher power, without that higher power they cease to be obligations and all pretence goes out of the window. This is the state of our society today with radical leftists decontructing Christian morality while simultaneously making up their own ethical standard, one which is certainly not logically sound and which is slowly dissolving social cohesion. As for it no longer having a useful role in society, well, take note in the next couple of decades as the traditional family is obliterated and personal resposibilty is replaced with statism, it's going to get wild.
"especially in the light of recent events that display institutionalised corruption in the church."
I would personally hang all child molestors, but they got 'human rights' these days, and child-molestors are concidered 'victims of their upbringing and environment', therefore not capable of being held responsible for their crimes.
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@Arfur Fuxxakes Yeah, my mind is so closed and yet i'm not the one parroting the same-old 'sky fairy' rhetoric.
Catholicism adopted much of Greek and Roman pagan philosophy, mythology and symbolism, so much so that Protestants accuse us incessantly of being pagan. Some Christians would be ashamed of it, i personally value the absorption of the best that paganism could produce, alongside the truth of Christ. And there's nothing wrong with a pix'n'mix, truth is often hard to clearly define.
My 'crutch' is self-knowledge; the knowledge of who and what i am, to the point where i don't claim to be absolute master of my own destiny. Like Oedipus, we're all subject to fate, and none of us are certain even to live to see tomorrow. I'll put my trust in Christ.
God doesn't send anyone to hell, you send yourself to hell for turning away from God. And what will the fires of hell feed upon but your sins? Hell is reserved for the proud, heaven for the humble.
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@Arfur Fuxxakes I'm high on life mate, come join me.
Are billions of people around the world not rational? Are Christians who happen to be scientists, philosophers, professors, historians, doctors, etc.....also not rational? Christians use faith in the belief about God and the afterlife, and use reason and logic for everything else in the natural world. But what you're really trying to say is: that only you, and handful of others, are rational people. Sounds more like arrogance than rationality.
Religion is about controlling the simple-minded? Of course, simple-minded people are dangerous. Religion is a guide for those incapable of thinking through their ill-thought-out ideas, and those incapable of controlling their irrational desires. Religion frees a man from slavery to his irrational desires (lust, anger, sloth, greed, envy), the natural proclivities of mankind. Mankind in the bare is a savage creature, just read ancient history or your local newspaper. You live in a successful Christian civilisation where mankind has be elivated to sainthood, but you foolishly believe this is the natural state of humanity.
The lord is not your shepherd.......because you live in a successful and comfortable Christian civilisation where you can live as a saint without acknowledging the founder. Your living at home with your parents and enjoying the benefits of the labour. Your standing on the shoulders of giants.
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+Proud Murtadd,
Comparing Christianity with Islam is like comparing a high-performance sports car with an hundred year old model T ford. Them both being vehicles and both having an engine and four wheels may give them a certain similarity, yet subtle differences under the bonnet provide huge dramatic differences in performance. Similarly, Christianity and Islam may both be Abrahamic religions, yet subtle differences in doctrine result in huge dramatic differences in the performance of society.
Example:
Christianity - Believes God is the sole and final judge, jury and executioner of sin (when it comes to sexual immorality).
Islam - Believes they should be the sole and final judge, jury and executioner of sexual sin.
One brings about a free society, the other, a theocracy. Therefore both are not the same, Islam being the worse of the two, if you care about individual liberty. But you can only have individual liberty in a society where people are not sexually immoral, and Christianity is the only religion which discourages sexual immorality while allowing people the freedom to do so.
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@Martial-Mat Christians don't look to an external entity for a sense of morality either. Morality is in-built or hardwired into every human soul (including the atheist), we simply recognise the author of that conscience. This grounds morality in an authority and makes every excuse to side-step the conscience null and void. And it's not just the fear of eternal punishment that prevents us from doing evil. For example: Stealing is wrong, but you could argue that stealing something that nobody is going to miss would be ok, but the very act of stealing itself harms you within, without there being a direct victim. Christians ethics keeps people on the straight and narrow, no excuses.
The 'threat' of eternal punishment is not a threat, it's simply a statement of fact. Do X and Y will follow. Hell is simply an eternal seperation from God, i.e: non-existence (Jesus called it 'outer darkness'). God doesn't send anyone to hell, you send yourself to hell by your pride.
And we all need salvation, there is no man alive who is not subject to the irrational desires of the body. You sometimes do things you didn't wish to do, and sometimes didn't do things you ought to have done. We're all failures, we all fall short of what is expected of us. These are our sins, these are things which bar us from knowing a greater reality.
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@respectfullyconfused3458 We're talking about sexual morality here, not technology, so your internet analogy is a false equivalence. Also, i never said it couldn't be done; behind closed doors is fine with me, i'm simply saying it was never intended, that it isn't the equal opposite of being straight and that it shouldn't be celebrated as a lifestyle. Although having said that, the internet certainly is a double-edged sword and is similar to the industrial revolution in it's impact on society, but as we're currently living through the rudimentary stages of this process, we're not yet capable of seeing how impactful it is, whether good or ill.
"If everything that doesn't produce a baby or is supposed to occur in animals is immoral, then you might as well stop literally everything you are doing other than pumping out kids."
Again, we talking about the realm of sexual morality. It's not a just case of 'pumping out kids', it's simply about recognising that that is the entire purpose. For example: Eating is to sustain life, that doesn't mean we cannot enjoy food, but when you overindulge and consume things not good for human health, then you are deviating from what is necessary. You can freely choose to do this of course, but don't try and rewrite the rule book by saying obesity is normal and to be celebrated.
"we've transcended animals clearly with our intelligent advancements"
True, but some people still believe the earth is flat and that 2+2=5.
"Gays can "preach" whatever they want to preach just like you can preach whatever shit you want to preach without being forced to "keep it behind closed doors"."
Certainly, but when you enter the public forum and begin to preach, then prepare to defend yourself. No one is free from criticism, especially when it's you who begin proceedings and you who are asking to rewrite the entire rule book. I'm not transgressing natural law but upholding it (to the benefit of our civilsation) so my voice has weight and should be applied to society. It's not my will i'm applying, but the will of the Creator. When certain groups wish to use the power of the state to not only facilitate their wilful degeneracy, but also to disregard and destroy the natural order, then the exception has ceased to be the exception and the rule has cease to be the rule.
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@ohwellwhateverr So basically, you have no counter argument, great. If it's wrong to vilify 'love' then why are you not demanding that incest be legalised? If mutual feeling is all that is required to determine sexual morality, then please be consistent with that position. As i've already stated, homosexuality is natural but not intended, as it's a deviation, there's nothing more to understand. The fact that gay men can produce semen disproves your assertion that nature causes homosexuality to reduce the population. You could argue that it's true of people who are infertile (which i don't believe), but if it's true for homosexuals you would expect them to be born as an entirely seperate class of human without the ability to procreate, but this isn't observed. As to your personal insults towards me, i'd like you to show me where i've ever used any derogatory remarks towards anyone else here. Not only have i been polite, but i've tried to keep my argument generalised and not targeted to any individual. I have also previously stated that i support everyone's right to live how they please without interference (natural rights), but that i object to ideology being imposed upon society (gay marriage, adoption, indoctrination of children, etc...). My position is based upon natural law, yours is the ideological position. I'm neutral, your not.
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@s.tagerius2514
"if sex between two animals of the same sex was not intended by nature, it would not occur."
That's like saying cancer is intended to occure in humans because it sometimes happens, and yet the intended state of a human is perfect health, evidenced by the fact that the majority are, or is cancer a way of decreasing population in your view? And sex-same animals don't have sex, they perform sodomy in the rectum, which is not intended to be done, evidenced by the damage it can cause and it being incapable of bringing forth conception.
"One theory as to why same-sex sexual activity occurs in nature is because nature requires a population control so as to avoid too much competition in nature."
If that's the case then we wouldn't expect to see cases of homosexuality in sparsely populated peoples, and yet we do. And we would also expect them not to have the ability to produce semen, and yet they do.
"marriage isn't objectively important, as plenty of people have good relationships without being married"
This is a consequence of living in the Western world alongside a majority which do in fact get married and provide stability for children, but this bubble is soon about to burst.
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Bob_Dole,
'Hate' is just a disagreeable response to someone elses perspective. What is hate to you isn't hate to me, and what is hate to me isn't hate to you. No one wakes up in the morning and says "i'm going to hate today", it just doesn't happen.
It's like the abortion debate, one side think they're taking away women's rights, the other thinks they're murdering a baby, both have a different perspective that makes them come to radically different conclusions, yet both have good intentions.
As to the afterlife, God will judge those who trangress moral law and fail to love their neighbour (all people). I don't hate gays, i simply recognise that sodomy is the misuse of the sex organs and therefore sinful. Being born gay isn't a sin, but practising sodomy is a sin. As i wish all people to get to heaven, i have to speak uncomfortable truths. So what you describe as 'hate' is in fact a loving act.
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@Arfur Fuxxakes Heaven is a timeless eternity, an eternal present. When the happy saint of God is welcomed in by the narrow gate he becomes love itself. You don't do anything in heaven, because there in no time; no time, no possibility of change. In this realm you have the fullest security, no tears will be shed, only the persistent enjoyment of the divine wonder.
I believe in heaven by faith and hope for it. I believe that divine love in a repentant soul can never die. I would never force anyone to believe as i do, but i would wish them too, because this love is all consuming.
And no, you won't 'burn' in hell. An eternal seperation from God IS hell. What awaits the unrepentant soul is eternal non-being, or for the more virtuous, captured in a sort of limbo, a lost place for lost people.
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Kalvin Clein You're conflating human nature with religion. Division, bigotry and war, are a part of human nature. These things can manifest under any guise: religion, politics, tribalism, football, cults, etc....
We still see division, bigotry and war, despite the west becoming increasingly secular. Political division in the western world (Trump vs. Biden, Brexit vs. Remain, etc...) for example, has lead to violence and hatred. Human nature will always find a way to conflict. Religion actually tries to rectify this by teaching love thy neighbour and doing good works. It's not perfect but it seems to work for the most part.
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@AcidR3action
A happy slavery or a sad liberty, which is worse? Being a child is a happy slavery, but when we reach a certain age, that happy slavery becomes a burden to the soul. We instinctly know that in order to grow as an individual we must fly the nest. At first this is a sad liberty because the comfort of our childhood is over, but we know that the only way to grow is to accept and embrace the sad liberty of adult responsibility, which comes with the possibility of failure, but if successful, consequently turns to a happy liberty. So the whole purpose of free will is growth. But of course this is only because WE freely chose duality over the garden of Eden, we flew the nest. The whole purpose of Christianity is to, once again, become a happy slave to Christ, but this time it's by our own volition.
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@s.tagerius2514 That's unbelievably disingenuous. You know that slavery was outlawed for the first time in the history of the world by Willaim Wilberforce, you know this, you can't be this ignorant of history. The parts of the bible that 'support' slavery are either historical descriptions of slavery taking place, or commands given to the Jews, note JEWS, i,e: Not Christians, Jesus didn't support slavery as an institution.
Tolerance is a Christian value.
No one has forced you to obey anything, what are you even talking about? Christianity allows the freedom of choice, Islam does not.
Seriously, your lack of historical and theological understanding is painful to deal with.
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@gethcreator751
"if he was the all knowing, all powerful god that he is in the Bible why doesn't he correct that mistake?"
A world where we cannot experience suffering and death would be one without free will. Without free will no one can truly love. In order for us to have free-will, we have to live in a world subject to change. We cannot make free choices without that, so God provided a world where it is possible. But having volition not only means us having the ability to choose good, but also to choose evil, and it also mean good and bad things can happen to us, outside of our control.
So why free-will? If God didn't allow for free-will we would call him a tyrant, or maybe we wouldn't even have the ability to call him one. Compelling someone to love you is not true love, therefore God created man with the ability to honestly and freely choose to love him. Ask yourself: Would you prefer to be a happy slave incapable of experiencing suffering, or a free agent but who can experience suffering? Deep down you know that the latter is the prefered (just think back to when you left the 'happy slavery' of parents home), but by accepting Christ, you freely choose to be the former in heaven, a 'happy slave' to God in the next life.
God corrected the 'mistake' through Christ, but now you get to make a free and honest choice.
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