Comments by "yxyk" (@yxyk-fr) on "Asianometry" channel.

  1. 21:00 Mataré and friends invented/discovered the point-contact transistor separately and almost simultaneously ... They didn't even try to "copy" it, in fact Shockley was shocked that the French Telephone company would use their own design for long distance transmission with better quality than in the US. The story on the Soviet side is more murky and convoluted, due to paranoid secrecy and duplication of works because the labs were strongly compartimented.
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  2. and then Intel, AMD, you name it...
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  3. 13:47 we have TGVs in France, they are pretty fast ;-)
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  4. are you referring to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLlIb_p11cM ? Part 2 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRCqhSONNiE
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  5. surely, there are only 23 minutes to cover the story... Feel free to complement with more facts (not opinions).
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  6. "one last time". NO. PLEASE. You'll always find amazing things to say and this subject/domain is crucial and fascinating so please go on and on and on 🙂
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  7. take pictures of it !!!
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  8. 1N34 is common too 🙂
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  9. You can start with a FPGA prototype 🙂
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  10. the CIA was created 30 years after that event 🙂
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  11. 2:43 THAT BOOOOK !
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  12.  @v8pilot  YT wipes links in comments :-(
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  13. levgenmajor, if there are factual errors, you're free to make your own video(s) to explain what was badly reported.
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  14. "because he correctly understood certain facts about human beings" which things ? have you heard about the "Nobel disease" by the way ? Maybe you agree with eugenics and he's "right" in your eyes. but which of you are geneticists ?
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  15.  @Doctorlockpick  we learn better from our mistakes 😀
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  16. I'm anti-tease 🙂
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  17. yes, that's part of the Seymour Cray early legends. But as soon as he/CDC could, they ordered custom gold-doped 2N709 silicon NPNs from Fairchild 🙂 (corrected, thanks MrGGPRI)
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  18. Then why did it take so long for them to reproduce the amplifying devices when they were hired in France ? Can you please provide us with more information ?
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  19.  @Schlipperschlopper  ultra-high-purity crystals are indeed extremely hard to make. It's a shame that the French had abandoned semiconductor fabrication by the 60s. According to Mataré's testimony, he only isolated the "transistor effect" in mid-1948, there is no mention of anything before. I'm sure it would have been common knowledge otherwise. So I am looking for as many hints and clues and references as possible. Thanks !
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  20. in short : FET became possible because 1) ultra-high-purity crystals 2) epitaxy
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  21. what.... are you..... trying..... to say......................
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  22. your best bet would be "alloy method", using pure germanium slabs and indium beads, heated in oven. more reliable and performant and easier to manufacture than pesky, vibration&humidity-sensitive cat whiskers.
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  23.  @debrainwasher  " to attempt to violate Pauli's inviolable exclusion principle " yeah, rules are made by Nature to be broken 🙂 Now why 1.6GHz and what power is required ?
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  24. If not for being near his family, why did Shockley go to California ? there was his university, IIRC. But what other reason do you think motivated him ?
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  25. Similar to the "prions" of the "mad cow disease"...
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  26. mostly true but somewhat misleading. Yes Bell Labs failed to mention Lilienfeld's work and that was a point of "conflict". But Shockley (and the whole Bell Labs team) discovered a different type of transistor effect (carrier injection, not field effect). So one misleading aspect of your comment is that there would be one type of transistor. Furthermore, Lilienfeld's design was "too advanced" for the current technology, it was invented but the available methods and processes didn't allow it to work. the BBS team explained why. And about 20 years after, working FETs worked and were sold.
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  27. they are still 40 bucks... on eBay :-D fuzz pedal makers crave them.
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  28. it's ... "complicated".
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  29. and it's very abridged, since the story is way more elaborate :-) it would take hours...
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  30. There are several documentaries such as PBS' "Transistorized!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4XknGqr3Bo and others, such as a Japanese retrospective. longer, less technical but has some extra context.
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  31. indeed, some people managed to make (short-lived) transistors using 1N34 point-contact Ge diodes. in fact the Germans created the "duodiode" during WW2, that paved the way to the French-German branch of bipolar transistors development (see Mataré).
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  32. he works hard for them.
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  33. Meanwhile in Japan : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihkRwArnc1k
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  34. Roswell happened in Roswell. The bipolar transistor effect was discovered independently by at least 2 teams (Bell Labs, and France/Germany). your story doesn't match actual history.
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  35.  @MostlyPennyCat  As for the prototype queue, this exists since the early 80s as MOSIS. Since 2020, the Google-Skywater collaboration uses a "MultiWafer Project" service from efabless.
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  36.  @Schlipperschlopper  That doesn't make sense to me... Mataré died in 2011, well after the world was changed by the transistors. even after the collapse of the Soviets, he couldn't have been tied to contracts by then. So he could have rectified things in his biography and in interviews, as the German research and the Transistron resurfaced in the last decades. What are your source ?
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  37.  @Schlipperschlopper  furthermore : As soon as Bell Labs disclosed their transistor, the Mataré team rushed to patent their own version before Bell Labs, so there was no attempt to hide their progress, on the contrary. The French wanted to brag as much as they could so they could have countered with their own side of the story (even though it included foreign sources, but they were happy to "benefit" from them).
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  38.  @Schlipperschlopper  Please, can we remain on topic ? nuclear research is a totally different topic, and the US military cleared Bell Labs before transistors were announced. Furthermore, the research in human flight is weeeelll documented, and only before WW1 was it militarised, so people like Lilienthal or Clément Ader are not forgotten. I would like more references about WW2 era research on semiconductors.
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  39.  @Schlipperschlopper  who is "we" ? Do you have any link ?
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  40. Don't stop yet ! the suspense is killing me ! ;-)
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  41. not really working, patents had been submitted but crystal purity was lacking.
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  42. Sure........ tell us now what you expect them to reply ?
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  43. dear @cjay2 , by "musicians", do you mean "all musicians" ? Because I don't count myself in this "elitist nostalgic" crowd. I'm an electronics engineer and a musician so I'm not swallowing audiophool memes easily.
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  44. I see @edwardmonsariste4050  So it's only for guitar, and for overdriven signals. Fancy. And "under rated speaker" sounds like a design defect to me. When you clip your signal, you're free to call this music. But there is a whole world beyond that, where you're good with 6dB of headroom before you saturate your microphone or preamp. Since tubes, the electronics world has evolved so much beyond the dynamics of magnetic tapes.
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  45. Now THAT's an interesting comment ! This fabrication method has long been forgotten...
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  46. that's right :-) IBM used the junction transistor symbol, for a while in the early 60s, and dropped it later...
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  47. 15:11 are they ?
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  48. ​ @newbiex11  Quantum mechanics were quite well understood in the 40s. In fact, Schottky laid out the theory that was later used by Bell Labs. I did my own research several months ago 🙂 Remember : Bell Labs tried to make a FET, and failed, so they had to resort to quite a lot of theoretical and engineering works to get one.
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  49. The obligatory vintage documentary from AT&T : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiQvGRjrLnU 🙂
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  50. Damnit ! I did a thorough research on this historical subject several months ago 😀
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  51. and it's only a superficial overview 😀
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  52. what is the difference ? They made a device and observed unexpected behavior : this is a discovery.
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  53.  @mr2981  patent offices have a different meaning for the word "inventor".
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  54. it was mentioned quickly... but a detailed documentary would run for 4 hours at least !
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  55.  @piotrkozniewski  During the early days, Czochralski's method was barely starting. "zone melting" was more common, at least in the very beginning, for experiments and small productions. as volumes increased, zone melting was not reliable and scaleable enough.
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  56. hopefully a future video. Then a video about Bose, who first witnessed microwaves.
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  57. why is it irrelevant ? Did Lilienfeld make reliable FETs ? And how did Czochralski invent transistors ? crystal-making is only one part of the fabrication process, a transistor is much more than that...
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  58. "Computers are made of field-effect transistors." The CDC6600 (1964) contained approximately 400,000 transistors (cf Wikipedia, other figures range from 300K to 600K). Today's equivalent part is the 2N2369, an epitaxial bipolar gold-doped NPN. So Shockley's theories are totally relevant to computer history. MOS processors appeared a decade later when they became cheap enough but you could find bipolar processors well into the 80s. The Intel Pentium used BiCMOS : fast parts in bipolar and slow/low power in CMOS (caches for example).
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  59.  @polka23dot70  we're not even counting Bell Labs geniuses like Claude Shannon, Niquist and (i forgot who) who made the first remote-accessed relay calculator right before/during WW2.
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  60.  @cogoid  so yes, as i understood earlier, this "choice" was a combination of factors. Thanks for confirming 🙂
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  61. what is it ?
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  62.  @Schlipperschlopper  I have no online reference about the use of duodiodes, I have only found that they were invented in hope of cancelling noise in the radar rectifiers. "interference" was observed but from the little I had found, no amplifying device was built. Mataré and friends were hired in France to build a diode manufacture and brought the idea with them and could at last make a working device, which was quickly (and shortly) adopted by the French State. But point-contact devices have many shortcomings that later alloyed types would overcome and it was too late for the French. Some people have traced / located early Transistrons in museums and private collections, but never heard of any predating device. Please can you provide more information ?
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  63. I'd read it.
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  64. you seem to have opinions. Great. it's good to reflect on what happened. But don't let your ignorance and a book make you reinvent History to your liking. History doesn't care what you think. Oh and you're totally off-topic here.
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  65. Indeed,  @cjay2  Schottky nailed the theory a decade before the transistors were discovered. It took a while to purify silicon and germanium enough to transition from point-contact to molten/doped methods. People at Bell Labs played with "zone melting" and found that they could control the doping by changing the speed of motion. Hence create bulk diodes. It took little effort to convert the process from PN to PNP, using Shockley's theories.
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  66. 13:09 "the presence of vacuum" is the absence of air, right ? 🙂
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  67.  @marianl8718  Just a few hours ago I saw on FB a circuit that uses a LED as rectifier for AM reception 😀
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  68. and the standard transistor symbol directly derives from it. mind blown, heh ?
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  69. Hmmmm excellent question ! Keep us informed of your finds !
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  70. 10:00 gain of 100 ? that looks large, I heard gains of maybe 20 or so ...
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  71. do they like you in return ? 🙂
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  72. That sounds like a job for... Wikipediaaaaa ! 😀
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  73. sure, the author is Asian... anything factual to argument ?
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  74. nope, just a long work and industrial evolution... each step enabling the following one.
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  75. yet it happened... This greatly confused the Soviets because the Soviets believed the US would try to mislead them toward a technological dead end. Meanwhile the Western bloc ramped up production and technology like crazy and left the Soviets lagging a decade behind. (summarized from a Russian page I found last year while researching the subject from different angles)
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  76. Except that Mataré observed it during WW2 but couldn't study it.
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  77. 9:47 shots fired... but fair enough.
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  78. maybe this video was not about eugenics.
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  79. it's a charged question ;-) and what if salmons un-ionize ?
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  80. Thanks for the free advertising ! I indeed opened my own fab last month, and "Redacted" is an awesome brand name !
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  81. 7:41 Stanf*u*rd ? 😀
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  82. ... or you're going bananas ? 🙂
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  83. Wrong. Nobody can be supercomputer'd out. Do that Japanese SC video at last !
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  84. something like "never"
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  85. it's an endless rabbit hole so the real merit is going back to real life and report about the trip 😀
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  86. yup  @MrGGPRI  that was a typo 🙂sorry
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  87. not discovered : invented/conceptualised, hence why BBS were seeking to implement it, but they lacked proper crystal purity. what they discovered was a different effect.
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  88. we all know what patents are worth @1pcfred  ...
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  89. And the contact transistor was "invented" in at least 2 unrelated places.
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  90.  @cogoid  Daaaamn.... that may have explained why they had so many problems making something work. They were used to vacuum tubes and their surroundings. Soon after the voltages were reduced to 21 or 9V, when the breakdown voltage effect is understood.
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  91. on the contrary hahaha ;-) literally ;-)
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  92. too late, he got nobelized...
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  93.  @Viertelfranzose  and you have reliable and useful links to provide. information that would rewrite history and earn Nobel Prizes.
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  94.  @jimsimpson1006  you mean space heaters ? 🙂
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  95. I have a microchannel system ! It's a Tektronix 2467, 4×350MHz analog 'scope, a delight to use but there is the warning to not push the sensitivity/light too high / too long or it could get damaged...
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  96. ah, the UNIX epoch is something different 😛 it's zero hour for /computers/
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  97. is that good or bad ? 😛
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  98. More cold open jokes please.
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  99. yeah you gotta replace all those maimed productive guys :-/
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  100. Meanwhile politically-motivated right-wingers attribute the relative delay to the-strawman-of-the-day (The Hill accuses DEI...)
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  101. what ?...
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  102.  @newbiex11  For you, what "counts" as quantum mechanics ? The mere use of "bandgap" relies on QM theories about the structure of atoms and their interactions, electron properties and their quantised energies. IMHO. And there are chances that the paper uses Plank's constant h, which is a direct clue that some QM is being considered in a way or another. Anyway, the first observations of "interference" in a semiconducting material touched by 2 very close point contact probes, during WW2 in Germany (look "duodiode" on Google) was serendipity. It was only developed in France after the war, in parallel and not knowing about the Bell Labs works.
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  103. to prove that there is nothing to hide, no trick 🙂 (i suppose) and it's an insulator.
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  104. He tunnelled through life 🙂
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  105. billions 🙂
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  106.  @gregorymalchuk272  I have found the same story. This also plagued the junction transistors which needed a contact at the base layer, the weak point. Alloy transistors killed them 🙂
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  107.  @gregorymalchuk272  that's a great question, I have not found this detail. Anyway, alloy transistors took over.
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  108.  @musiqtee  When I went in the germanium rabbit hole, last year, it took months of research to weave a compelling narrative that would not be lost in details, because there are so many ! @Asianometry tries to make a video every 3 days so he couldn't dog as deep as I did, and I'm only an amateur because there are specialists who have been in the field for decades... I now have contact with people who track the early Transistron models 😀 I only have a few boxes full of Germanium transistors, found back when eBay was still good.
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  109. and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwhU9goCiaI of course !
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  110.  @cogoid  "Japan" is a country, I'm not sure what organisation bought the patent licence. Furthermore there were 2 things : the patent licence for the device itself, and the licence for the manufacture methods. IIRC.
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  111. Also @mr2981  tell us when NVIDIA's chip were worth a Nobel Prize. These chips were designed and engineered to fulfill an expected purpose. And they deliver. Now, imagine one second : NVIDIA turns their newest GPU prototype on and "something else unexpected" happens. Not a failure, not a flaw, but a new effect. That is a _discovery_. That is what happened at Bell Labs and in Mataré's lab in Europe. The BBS team got Nobelized because they have researched all the causes and effects and built a working THEORY that described new phenomena that were then harnessed to enhance the devices. They didn't invent the phenomena, they discovered it and modeled it, paving the way for better understanding and engineering practices.
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  112.  @mikekokomomike  it sounds like you have tried already ;-)
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  113. I admit that Cage as Shockley would be rad. At least in the beginning. I'm not sure about the depiction of Shockley's late "ramblings" though.
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  114. and even a whole episode. Though I think it was already covered here, I have forgotten.
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  115. ooops i'm not first...
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  116. i've never heard about galena transistors. I think people tried this, as well as other artificial or natural crystals/semiconductors... In principle, you're not wrong, but then, there is the "does it really work" aspect. Even using 1N34s for making a transistor is very uncertain, atmospheric moisture can spoil your experiments before it even starts.
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  117.  @chickenfishhybrid44  I remember finding this mentioned in maybe 2 different recollections, I will see if I can find them 6 months after my SSD crashed. From what I remember : Mataré & colleagues were brought to France by Westinghouse to make diodes, and the duodiode became the Transistron, a few months after the prototype at Bell Labs but before the announcement. When Westinghouse France heard about it (june 30, 1948), they rushed to patent their own version (aug. 13th, 1948), which angered Bell Labs as they could only patent their own (Bardeen-Bratten) design. And the Lilienfeld "omission", so Shockley was already on the edge. Westinghouse trademarked their device as "Westcrel" and worked quickly with PTT (French Postes/Télégraphes/Téléphones) so a batch of 1000 Transistrons was ordered and manufactured. I don't know if those ended up in the telephone relays but they were used in the cable between Algeria and Paris, which was demonstrated to Shockley during his visit to France in 1950. The Westrcrel has higher bandwidth than the GE part, however Shockley was already working on better devices, faster and less fragile. I'll see if I can find details or even the article that mentions Shockley's 1950 visit. I'll have to dig through tens of resources...
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  118. seems my reply didn't make it through @chickenfishhybrid44  .... not the first time though, maybe it was too long ? digging through my notes, transistronised telephone relays appeared in France in 1949 according to an article scan. Also found this quote in a radiomuseum org page (lookup with google because yt comments don't allow urls) " Herbert F. Mataré and Heinrich Welker developed with Westinghouse of Paris a similar mechanism as a transistor and patented this “Transitron” some months later than the Americans, on August 13 1948. They worked before at Siemens on radar technology and did research on “point-contact diode” ED705 as mixer-detector for cm-wave (also ED704, ED707). The Mataré-Welker mechanism led to telephone amplifiers between France and Algeria in 1950. " Bandwidth and gain figures are hard to find. The current might have been 10 to 30mA because the cats whiskers were really tiny. I have found several mentions of better French quality but we all know it was a dead end anyway and politics spoiled everything, Mataré created Intermetal in 1952, not in France... Contact me personally for more references and direct links.
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  119.  @Schlipperschlopper  I had a hint that German engineers were taken to Russia but didn't find names. However, Mataré & Welker didn't work for AEG but Telefunken
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  120. that's research, dude ;-)
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  121. with Indiuim or Arsenic ?
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  122.  @sbkarajan  If you spent more time on actual scientific websites and less on crackpot pages, you'd get answers and context that the "I can't understand so it's a lie" won't tell you. Oh and you're still off-topic. tudaloo.
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  123. well dear @sbkarajan  " Sounds familiar?" yes, very, as I see a lot of flerfers reinventing reality. "How did the lunar buggy’s primitive battery last for 3 days too?" As usual you fall for the fallacy of "heat vs temperature". "Did LEM have insulation or cooling for 3 days?" Well, it's right under your nose, didn't you see those golden foils ? you're welcome.
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  124. again @sbkarajan  ... "How long does it take for a matter to cross the event horizon, according to schwarzschild metric?" I'm sure you know the answer, yet you can't differentiate heat and temperature. And you're still off-topic. Now please tell us about germanium and silicon.
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  125.  @sbkarajan  I imply that you have a poor grasp on reality, and you like to misrepresent things. 'seeing you.
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  126.  @sbkarajan  well, you won't believe Wikipedia, right ? so you won't do your own research. Heat is a measure of transfer of energy. Temperature is the average kinematic velocity of the particles of a gas. See Bolzmann and the likes. you were concerned that the LEM would fry right ? But the Moon has no atmosphere and no gas to transfer the heat. The energy from the Sun is in infrared rays which are reflected by the golden foils. You should know this, it's space 101. Now waiting for your ad hominems. You're welcome.
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  127.  @sbkarajan  PS: you're still off-topic.
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  128.  @sbkarajan  the God is only in YOUR belief. The worship is of your own making. Of course, the fantasy must be in one of us, right, and of course it's not your imagination. The whole world is banding against you... but you're better than anybody because you have seen through the lies. Congrats. Now show us how right you are ! expose all the lies ! Now who believes he's God, superior, better than the rest ?
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  129.  @sbkarajan  the trick with metacognition is that it shouldn't stop at one or two meta levels. You feel satisfied and confident with one realisation, you feel you are "intelligent". Well it's only the start. Now tell me again there was no moon landing.
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  130. ​ @sbkarajan  so what ? are you still trying to prove you're not a rocket scientist ? Please remind me the (inflation-adjusted) budget for the Apollo program, as well as the current budget that Congress has deemed "enough" for the "big return". Oh and we have learned a thing or two since the first visits there. Like optimising trajectories for fuel economy. But yeah, go on, continue comparing things that are not related, and draw ridiculous conclusions. I'll bring popcorn.
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  131. Are you entitled that I satisfy you,  @sbkarajan  ? And why do you feel the need to "alter" the words ? are they dirty or do you fear you are being spied upon ?
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  132.  @sbkarajan  Why are you comparing unrelated things ? C'm'on ! LRO is not a lander ! so why should it weigh like a LEM ? What are you even trying to ... Anyway your method to madness is simple: take random numbers from here and there, say they don't make sense (that's the premise) and complain that the world is not working the way you want it to. it's 4:30am here, I gotta go.
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  133. pn junctions are diodes and the junction diode logically predates and announces the junction transistor. Shockley simply extended the principle to 3 electrodes. As simple as that 🙂
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  134. and prototypes were demonstrated a year earlier at trade shows.
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  135. so what was the "real" reason ?
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  136. you're on the Internet. What do you expect, Nobel Prizes ? It's not 1993 😕
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  137.  @realryder2626  but what for ? They are fragile as hell...
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