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  1756.  @ThorsMartell  Per Wikipedia: The Potsdam Declaration It was decided to issue a statement, the Potsdam Declaration, defining "Unconditional Surrender" and clarifying what it meant for the position of the emperor and for Hirohito personally. The American and British governments strongly disagreed on this point—the United States wanted to abolish the position and possibly try him as a war criminal, while the British wanted to retain the position, perhaps with Hirohito still reigning. Furthermore, although it would not initially be a party to the declaration, the Soviet government also had to be consulted since it would be expected to endorse it upon entering the war. The Potsdam Declaration went through many drafts until a version acceptable to all was found.[75] On 26 July, the United States, Britain and China released the Potsdam Declaration announcing the terms for Japan's surrender, with the warning, "We will not deviate from them. There are no alternatives. We shall brook no delay." For Japan, the terms of the declaration specified: the elimination "for all time [of] the authority and influence of those who have deceived and misled the people of Japan into embarking on world conquest" the occupation of "points in Japanese territory to be designated by the Allies" that the "Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshū, Hokkaidō, Kyūshū, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine." As had been announced in the Cairo Declaration in 1943, Japan was to be reduced to her pre-1894 territory and stripped of her pre-war empire including Korea and Taiwan, as well as all her recent conquests. that "[t]he Japanese military forces, after being completely disarmed, shall be permitted to return to their homes with the opportunity to lead peaceful and productive lives." that "[w]e do not intend that the Japanese shall be enslaved as a race or destroyed as a nation, but stern justice shall be meted out to all war criminals, including those who have visited cruelties upon our prisoners." On the other hand, the declaration stated that: "The Japanese Government shall remove all obstacles to the revival and strengthening of democratic tendencies among the Japanese people. Freedom of speech, of religion, and of thought, as well as respect for the fundamental human rights shall be established." "Japan shall be permitted to maintain such industries as will sustain her economy and permit the exaction of just reparations in kind, but not those which would enable her to rearm for war. To this end, access to, as distinguished from control of, raw materials shall be permitted. Eventual Japanese participation in world trade relations shall be permitted." "The occupying forces of the Allies shall be withdrawn from Japan as soon as these objectives have been accomplished and there has been established, in accordance with the freely expressed will of the Japanese people, a peacefully inclined and responsible government." The only use of the term "unconditional surrender" came at the end of the declaration: "We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction." Contrary to what had been intended at its conception, the Declaration made no mention of the Emperor at all. Secretary of State Joseph Grew had advocated for retaining the emperor as a constitutional monarch. He hoped that preserving Hirohito's central role could facilitate an orderly capitulation of all Japanese troops in the Pacific theatre. Without it, securing a surrender could be difficult. Navy Secretary James Forrestal and other officials shared the view.[36]: 630  Allied intentions on issues of utmost importance to the Japanese, including whether Hirohito was to be regarded as one of those who had "misled the people of Japan" or even a war criminal, or alternatively, whether the Emperor might become part of a "peacefully inclined and responsible government" were thus left unstated. The "prompt and utter destruction" clause has been interpreted as a veiled warning about American possession of the atomic bomb (which had been tested successfully on the first day of the conference).[76] On the other hand, the declaration also made specific references to the devastation that had been wrought upon Germany in the closing stages of the European war. To contemporary readers on both sides who were not yet aware of the atomic bomb's existence, it was easy to interpret the conclusion of the declaration simply as a threat to bring similar destruction upon Japan using conventional weapons. Japanese reaction On 27 July, the Japanese government considered how to respond to the Declaration. The four military members of the Big Six wanted to reject it, but Tōgō, acting under the mistaken impression that the Soviet government had no prior knowledge of its contents, persuaded the cabinet not to do so until he could get a reaction from Moscow. In a telegram, Shun'ichi Kase, Japan's ambassador to Switzerland, observed that "unconditional surrender" applied only to the military and not to the government or the people, and he pleaded that it should be understood that the careful language of Potsdam appeared "to have occasioned a great deal of thought" on the part of the signatory governments—"they seem to have taken pains to save face for us on various points."[77] The next day, Japanese newspapers reported that the Declaration, the text of which had been broadcast and dropped by leaflet into Japan, had been rejected. In an attempt to manage public perception, Prime Minister Suzuki met with the press, and stated: I consider the Joint Proclamation a rehash of the Declaration at the Cairo Conference. As for the Government, it does not attach any important value to it at all. The only thing to do is just kill it with silence (mokusatsu). We will do nothing but press on to the bitter end to bring about a successful completion of the war.[78] The meaning of mokusatsu (黙殺, lit. "killing with silence") is ambiguous and can range from "refusing to comment on" to "ignoring (by keeping silence)".[79] The meaning intended by Suzuki has been the subject of debate.[80] On 30 July, Ambassador Satō wrote that Stalin was probably talking to Roosevelt and Churchill about his dealings with Japan, and he wrote: "There is no alternative but immediate unconditional surrender if we are to prevent Russia's participation in the war."[81] On 2 August, Tōgō wrote to Satō: "it should not be difficult for you to realize that ... our time to proceed with arrangements of ending the war before the enemy lands on the Japanese mainland is limited, on the other hand it is difficult to decide on concrete peace conditions here at home all at once."[82]
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  2559.  @user-ls4cs1wd2w  MW is highly variable by state from only the Federal minimum of $7.25 in some states to as high as $15.00 in DC. As far as keeping up with costs, I think most of that loss was in the 1970s when inflation was double-digit (peaking at over 13% in 1979). Inflation over the past 20 years has averaged at only about 2% per year. Perspective is needed here. One of the hardest things in discussing this is that living costs/expectations have also changed considerably. Imagine one hard-line phone number per residence versus most people having a cell phone. Only large corporations had computers versus most people having at least some access to a personal computer, even if it is through their public library. Things that were considered LUXURY items have become requirements. There was no "cable TV." Eating out was only for special occasions, etc. Homes are more expensive, but they're also much bigger! Health care is more expensive, but treatments/diagnostics exist now that require expensive capital investments. Living costs are more expensive now because even the poor have it better today then the middle class did 50 years ago. So I agree that some adjustments need to be made, but probably not as much as young people who've never discussed these things with their parents and grandparents. LOL - MY parents never let me forget what they had to endure when they were children and how hard life was "back then." I'm still grateful that I can have hot/cold running water with the turn of a tap!
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  2761. And now these song lyrics are running through my mind with the word picture you’ve drawn: Once upon a time there was a tavern Where we used to raise a glass or two Remember how we laughed away the hours Think of all the great things we would do Those were the days, my friend We thought they'd never end We'd sing and dance forever and a day We'd live the life we choose, we'd fight and never lose For we were young and sure to have our way Da-da-da-da-da-day, da-da-da-da-da-day Da-da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da Then the busy years went rushing by us We lost our starry notions on the way If by chance I'd see you in the tavern We'd smile at one another and we'd say Those were the days, my friend We thought they'd never end We'd sing and dance forever and a day We'd live the life we choose, we'd fight and never lose Those were the days Oh yes, those were the days Da-da-da-da-da-day, da-da-da-da-da-day Da-da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da Just tonight I stood before the tavern Nothing seemed the way it used to be In the glass, I saw a strange reflection Was that lonely woman really me? Those were the days, my friend We thought they'd never end We'd sing and dance forever and a day We'd live the life we choose we'd fight and never lose Those were the days, oh yes, those were the days Da-da-da-da-da-day, da-da-da-da-da-day Da-da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da Da-da-da-da-da-day, da-da-da-da-da-day Da-da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da Through the door there came familiar laughter I saw your face and heard you call my name Oh my friend, we're older but no wiser For in our heart, the dreams are still the same Those were the days, my friend We thought they'd never end We'd sing and dance forever and a day We'd live the life we choose we'd fight and never lose Those were the days, oh yes, those were the days Da-da-da-da-da-day, da-da-da-da-da-day Da-da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da Da-da-da-da-da-day, da-da-da-da-da-day Da-da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da...
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  3125.  philajfran  These are a few of the things you said that you didn't back up: 1. As usual the capitalist fundamentalists are unable to accept any of capitalism's failures. They are still pretending the privately owned property market's prices spiraling up out of control is socialism's fault. When the fault is the property bubbles capitalism created to profit from "rents". (Prove "unable to accept any of capitalism's failures." I'd argue that is the reason we have MIXED ECONOMIES, WELFARE, FEEDING PROGRAMS, HOUSING VOUCHERS, SHELTERS, and STIMULUS. Even the US is a mixed economy.) 2. After right wing thugs violently harassed him and his family and drove them out of the country. Evo stepped down and a far right wing theocratic fascist government took power in a coup supported by the US. Since then the OAS's tune has changed and now they admit they were "mistaken" and Evo didn't rig the election which in fairness was obvious from the beginning. Note how no one (especially the US) is demanding those right wing theocratic fascists stand down despite the fact they have cancelled elections and have violently oppressed the native peoples. (Prove "right wing" and fascist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanine_%C3%81%C3%B1ez) 3. China is a capitalist authoritarian state that maintains the illusion of communism but is obviously not communist anymore. (Per Wikipedia - The economy of China is a mixed socialist market economy which is composed primarily of state-owned enterprises and uses economic planning, while still allowing for private businesses and investment to flourish. Also, the current social safety net seems to be very inadequate: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3099000/china-overhaul-social-safety-net-poor-and-disaster-victims) 4. China is a capitalist autocracy and not a communist state (see #3) 5. . . .anti capitalist because it is destroying our planet and us as a species. (prove that communism/socialism hasn't contributed significantly to the destruction of the planet and human life) 6. Also you claim I've made assumptions as well, but failed to say what it was I said that was an assumption (I put the assumption that you made in parenthesis right after I made that statement!) 7. . . .you don't know anything about socialism or communism except what people who hate communism and socialism told you about it (First you assume that I get all my information online, and then you assume that it is all from people who've direct experience with it.) 8. Stalin was no more of a communist/socialist than Hitler was a democrat and a humanitarian. (Per Wikipedia: Stalinism is the means of governing and policies implemented in the Soviet Union from 1927 to 1953 by Joseph Stalin. It is based on Marxism–Leninism and included the creation of a one-party totalitarian state; rapid industrialization; the theory of socialism in one country; collectivization of agriculture; intensification of the class struggle under socialism; a cult of personality;[1][2] and subordination of the interests of foreign communist parties to those of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, deemed by Stalinism to be the leading vanguard party of communist revolution at the time.[3]) 9. . . .uncogent capitalist cultist who can only repeat the erroneous statements and biases of others (Seems that is exactly what are you doing.) 10. It's almost like you need to talk about me personally because you have no arguments or evidence to back up what you have said. (Seems that is exactly what you are doing.)
    1
  3126.  philajfran  1. I cited MIXED ECONOMIES, WELFARE, FEEDING PROGRAMS, HOUSING VOUCHERS, SHELTERS, and STIMULUS as some of the evidence that capitalists can and do recognize failures. Instead, you talk about being in denial. 2. You are more interested in Bolivia than I am so I'll give you this one. 3 and 4. You had stated that China is a capitalist autocracy and not communist - the article I cited proves that isn't so. 5. You used a double negative: My assertion is the OPPOSITE - that socialism/communism is every bit as culpable for environmental degradation and loss of human life. It appears you think that this is mainly the result of capitalism. I've given reasons/information in previous posts that you simply ignored, so it's up to you to respond. 6. "You have made assumptions as well (thinking that I've gotten all my info online). [I've reposted since you couldn't be bothered.] 7. I've previously admitted to flaws in capitalism, but maybe you've glossed over those. To repeat, I've stated mixed economies like the US and its social safety nets as proof that capitalists do see its flaws and are addressing those. 8. Looks like we've finally reached some agreement here. Yay! 9. Eveything that I put in #1-8 in the previous post was pointing out your erroneous statements and biases plus why they were wrong! 10. I'm glad to know you weren't talking about me. Neither socialism/communism nor capitalism are on my list of favorite subjects and you certainly are not. I don't "ask you anything," that is personal or off topic. In fact, I didn't ASK YOU A SINGLE QUESTION in my previous post and any questions asked before that were for you to share your sources. I would really like to know where you've gotten the idea that "... capitalism is a meat grinder which has willfully let 300 million people starve over the last 20 years because they couldn't afford food. Communism doesn't even get close to this." (Here is just one more example of you making an assertion without anything to back it up.) This appears to be just one more example of your erroneous statements and biases.
    1
  3127.  philajfran  1. They haven't been eroded, they've been expanded! For example, two years ago, kids had to come from low-income households to get free breakfast and free lunch; now all students are entitled to free breakfast and lunch. That continues even though the kids are not currently on campus. NY now has "right to housing" so the homeless are off the streets even being put up in hotels. It's pretty easy to get free appliances and things like free solar panels if you are a low-income household. You assert they've been eroded in spite of evidence to the contrary. 2. I don't have enough interest to check your claims. Plus links that you provide either freeze or are behind a paywall. 3 + 4. Your understanding of communism under Mao is wrong. Since the links aren't working for you, here are a few quotes to set you straight: "Mr Dikötter, who has been studying Chinese rural history from 1958 to 1962, when the nation was facing a famine, compared the systematic torture, brutality, starvation and killing of Chinese peasants to the Second World War in its magnitude. At least 45 million people were worked, starved or beaten to death in China over these four years; the worldwide death toll of the Second World War was 55 million." "Deaths from hunger reached more than 50 percent in some Chinese villages. The total number of dead from 1959 to 1961 was between 30 million and 40 million -- the population of California." "Mao kept expanding the laogai, a system of 1,000 forced labor camps throughout China. Harry Wu, who spent 19 years in labor camps, has estimated that from the 1950s through the 1980s, 50 million Chinese passed through the Chinese version of the Soviet gulag. Twenty million died as a result of the primitive living conditions and 14-hour work days." 5. You say my claims are unsubstantiated even when I've provided links. The links that you've provided also fail, so your claims are also unsubstantiated. The link you provided is useless since it is behind a paywall, but the dates are interesting. They have to go back all the way to 1850 to get the numbers to fit a narrative. Neither Russia nor China was communist for much of that time. The data would be more meaningful if they compared from the time they became socialist. 6. You appear to be blind to your double standard and hypocrisy. I've checked every one of my claims from multiple sources. 7. You need to give proof that they've eroded. That certainly is NOT the case. I'm nearly 60 years old and I KNOW that in many ways the social safety net has expanded, not eroded. See #1 for a few examples. 8. Don't put words in my mouth. I agree with you that he was totalitarian and had a cult of personality, but he was definitely a Marxist-Leninist. He did create collectives, but it was still a planned, centralized economy. 9. "Empowering the people" means they get to keep what they produce. Communism disempowers people because it confiscates from those who are most productive and redistributes it to those who don't, can't, or won't produce. Capitalism creates more wealth because people are incentivized when they can keep more of what they produce. The attitude under communism/socialism deteriorates into "why should I put in more effort when the state will just seize it?" The biggest opponents of communism are those who've been forced to live under it. And why do you keep asserting that "capitalism can't see it's own failures" when the social safety nets under capitalism keep expanding? (See #1 for a few examples.) 10. It appears that you aren't getting or accessing the sources that I've provided with each of these posts. I'm also either not getting yours or am unable to access them since they freeze or are behind paywalls. Thank you for providing the stats, but you said the 300 million were the result of capitalism and I'm not seeing that when I did a search. The 180 - 300 million were attributed to hunger without specifying why. Consider that $6 billion is spent by the wealthy Western nations on famine and disaster relief, but much of that is kept from the people it's supposed to aid by warlords and corrupt government officials who withhold the supplies. That 180-300 million starving is the result of genocides being committed by these regimes and NOT the result of capitalism.
    1
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  4370.  @skydragon23101979  That would be the very definition of a vocational school and those already exist in China. However, according to Wikipedia: "Expanding and improving secondary vocational education has long been an objective of China's educational reformers, for vocational schools are seen as those which are best placed to address (by providing trained workers) the rising needs of the nation's expanding economy, especially its manufacturing and industrial sectors. Without an educated and trained workforce, China cannot have economic, hence social and national, development. Yet, given a finite, and often quite limited, a pot of money for secondary schools, and allocation competition/conflict necessarily exists between its two sub-sectors: general education and vocational/technical education. "Regardless, an over-enrollment in the latter has been the overall result of the mid-1980s reforms. Yet firms that must seek workers from this graduate pool have remained unimpressed with the quality of recruits and have had to rely on their own job-training programs that provide re-education for their newly hired workers. The public, also, has not been very enthusiastic over vocational secondary education which, unlike general education, does not lead to the possibility of higher education. The public's perception is that these schools provide little more than a dead end for their children. Also, vocational institutions are more expensive to run than their counterparts in general education, and they have not had sufficient money to modernize their facilities, as China's modernizing national economy demands. By mid-decade of the 21st Century, therefore, academics and policy-makers alike began to question the policy that pours funds into vocational schools that do not do their intended function."
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