Comments by "Sar Jim" (@sarjim4381) on "The Battle of Flamborough Head - Nice Ship, I'll Take It" video.

John Paul Jones was probably the most unlikely person to end up as one America's greatest naval heros. Even more strange, he only managed to reach the rank of Admiral by joining the Russian Navy. The book "John Paul Jones: America's First Sea Warrior" (Joseph Callo) is a great book about his life, not only his well known naval achievements, but also his personal life, which was almost exciting as his naval battles. I believe it's now available as an ebook and in print for about the same price. There are several other books about Jones with deceptively similar titles, but none are as comprehensive as Callo's tome.
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I took American history in the late 50's up to my graduation in 1964. It may be the period I took history compared to later times, but we were taught all about commanders like John Paul Jones, David Porter, and Oliver Hazard Perry. Given the size of the Continental Navy, and the rather pitiful force we put together in 1812, we didn't have a lot of early American naval heroes, so our history lessons spent some time on them. I credit Mr. Harrison's seventh grade history class, with his riveting tales of John Paul Jones, as being responsible for the start of my lifelong interest in naval history.
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@whatsoperadoc7050 I was long before the days of standardized testing. It seems like the goal now is for students to know a little about more things but not learn any one thing in depth. Back then, teachers made up their own tests, and teachers like Mr. Harrison's tests went into a lot more detail about naval history because he really liked naval history. He probably taught less about the other military phases of the Revolutionary War and War of 1812, but I like the idea that teachers were allowed to teach about what they liked best. It made the classes a lot more interesting when the teacher was invested in the subject rather than helping the students pass a standardized test.
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@stanleyrogouski I don't know about the last time, but Jones was in command of a force in the Russo-Turkish war when kept the Turkish navy near Ochakov on the run and provided shore bombardment for the invasion of Kinbern and laid siege to Ochakov. He was under Admiral Potemkin's command, and Potemkin and other Russian admirals feared Jones was going to rise in command, given his known abilities and the rumor that he and Catherine II had more than a professional relationship, if you catch my drift. Potemkin was constantly sending back action reports with filled with lies about Jones's supposed cowardice in the face of the Turks. He was finally recalled to Moscow under the pretext of being transferred to the Baltic Fleet when, in reality, he was put in a staff position Potemkin knew he would hate. Even though Jones was awarded the Order of St. Anne in June, 1788, he knew he was being forced out, and returned to Paris just before Christmas of the same year. He learned his lesson about serving in a foreign fleet from this, turning down the offer of command of the French revolutionary fleet in 1790.
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@stanleyrogouski He was actually 45 in 1792, the year of his death. You might be thinking of his age when he was in Russian service. Jones had pretty much burned all his bridges in the US Navy and knew he had no chance for promotion there. His Russian service was strictly a business proposition, much as his service in the US Navy had been. Jones wanted tow things - to be in a fight and be in command of a fleet. I've read of Kościuszko's advice to Jones about foreign service. It's not clear why he turned down the French offer, but I suspect he didn't want to choose what might be the losing side in another civil war. I think Spain was also interested in Jones, but he had developed the reputation, using an American football metaphor, of being a top quarterback, but not being much of a team player and hard to work with. His chance of a top command in a stable navy was just about zero, even with his acknowledged talent. Sad end to what could have been a very successful career as admiral of the fleet somewhere.
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@williammurdoch468 My first ten years were in Catholic schools, back when they had the deserved reputation offering a superior education, at least to those planning to go to college. Public schools back then still offered a good education, just not expecting students to perform at the same levels demanded by the nuns. I was lucky to have Mr. Harrison, a "lay" teacher and a navy vet, as my history teacher for two years. If he was around today, God rest his soul, I suspect he'd be doing the same sorts of videos as Drach. They would have been a heck of a collab.
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@adamdubin1276 I don't think there was any doubt about his courage and heroism...as long as he was in a battle. His behavior at other times was the kind of thing that gets left out of our jingoistic history books.
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@jagerbombasstic You're welcome. I read it just after it came out in the early 90's, and it was a real page turner for me. I've read several other biographies about Jones with those similar titles and, while they weren't bad, they weren't as historically complete as Callo's book.
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@stanleyrogouski Jones was certainly no believer in democracy, and he did run his ships like an absolute monarchy. Nelson was 47 at the time of Trafalgar, and Jones would have been 58. Both Jones and Nelson would have been considered elderly at a time when the average life expectancy was 34. The last thing Jones wanted to do was die peacefully in bed, so I imagine he would have envied Nelson's death if he had still been around.
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@stanleyrogouski I think you can have a form of democracy on ship and land, as long as it's in peacetime. We've seen what happens to our rights in war. The French had the right idea wanting to replace inherited positions with the working and middle class. The problem was throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Not all members of the nobility were corrupt and incompetent, and not all members of the working class were noble and competent. Any time we start selecting any type of leadership based on class, we're headed for trouble. Meritocracy always produces better results than an idiocracy.
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@stanleyrogouski Lafayette believed above all else in the idea of public order. Those disturbing public order, regardless of if they were royalists or Jacobin, soon earned his wrath. He believed nothing could be accomplished without order, and it's hard to argue with that. He was actually a central figure in the early revolutions, just not on the side of the revolutionaries. It wasn't until the revolution of 1830 that he was persuaded that sometimes a disturbance of public order was needed if people were to earn more rights. Lafayette was a far more complicated figure than most people understand.
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@stanleyrogouski One of the reasons why the revolutionary French Navy, in addition to his well known command ability, was his modest beginnings. The revolution decimated the royalist navy, with about 70% of the noble officers executed or exiled. Command then had as much to do with your working class background as it did ability. The French just swapped mostly incompetent noble officers, some of whom had command ability, for almost totally incompetent proletariat officers, almost none of which had command ability. Not the way to win battles. :-)
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@zacharywiedner327 Quite true, and many Continental Navy officers were quite happy to return to their pre revolution jobs, be it as farmers or merchants. Jones, of course, wasn't just any other naval officer. If there was a battle anywhere, Jones wanted to be in it, hence his Russian service.
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@whatsoperadoc7050 You seem like you have a good command of the language and understand a lot about naval history. It's a little disgusting to suggest otherwise.
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Warning, Drach. The Grammar Police are on duty today.
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@normanbraslow7902 Have you read Callo's book? You might change your mind about "gold standard" if you do.
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@normanbraslow7902 You're welcome. I'm not sure I'd assert Callo's book "beats" Morison's, but I think they tell essentially the same story in a different way. The two books together gave me a better understanding of such a complex character as Jones than I would have gotten from reading just one of them. I'm looking forward to your assessment. I'm constantly impressed with the depth of knowledge of Drach's subs.
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@normanbraslow7902 Thankfully, the covid lockdown is over here in Alabama, so I can actually go out shopping again. The book is also available on Amazon if you want to go that route.
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