Comments by "" (@jb76489) on "Australia is Proof - National Gun Laws Work..." video.

+DarthCipient I wonder how you can rationalize that not only is murder in the US is at its lowest point in almost a century, it's going down faster than in Australia and while at the same time, there are more guns in the US than ever
2
Yeah! Fuck the elderly or disabled for wanting to protect themselves! Thinking they're people like the rest of us! Also, nice false dichotomy
1
buddy barker "for the most part disabled people have carers and so do alot of elderly people.. " citation needed "And what alternative points have i left out if what i said was such a false dichotomy? " "The rich and wealthy do much more harm to a country as a whole than your neighbour or a random working class citizen" one can be worried about the evil meanie he'd 1% nd still want a gun for protection against more pedestrian criminals " the police obviously need to step their game up if the country is that bad" Warren vs DC, its not about enforcing the law its about personal protection when there are no police present "automatic and assault weapons" well luckily for you, the first are extremely difficult to get legally while the second is a fear mongering term that doesn't really mean anything " There's a good movie which recently came out about US msm and how it fear mongers and blatantly lies to people" ". The way the msm in US fear mongers people is disgraceful" and yet you fall for it with your "assault weapons" idiocy. Pray tell, do you believe in a gun show loophole too?
1
buddy barker " do the main stream media not fear monger people" they do and you fell for it "was the iraq war not a lie?" nope but thats beyond the bounds of this discussion " have the working class citizens caused more damage to america compared to the top rich people and companies?" impossible to quantify as many of those uber meanie head rich folk are rich because of the middle class spending but again, you can worry about both
1
buddy barker "they are rich because they hide their money offshore and don't pay enough taxes." and where did that money come from? Just pop out of the aether? http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2014/10/03/there-are-more-self-made-billionaires-in-the-forbes-400-than-ever-before/#793789f9e0a5 http://www.thomasjstanley.com/2014/02/socioeconomic-mobility-on-the-wane-au-contraire/ (link to wsj article with study in blog post) As for that tax nonsense http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/04/15/who-will-pay-more-tax-for-2014/?mod=e2tw 75.7% of all taxes isnt enough? what about 95.2% of income taxes, is that enough http://www.forbes.com/sites/danbigman/2012/04/03/john-stossel-tax-the-rich-the-rich-dont-have-enough-really/#3b8b5fd0772c And is your solution to them hiding they money offshore really to make it worse for them to have it back in the US " money is used to back a candidate " http://www.campaignfreedom.org/external-relations/money-in-politics/ http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/does-money-really-buy-elections-a-new-marketplace-podcast/ http://web.mit.edu/jdefig/www/papers/invest_or_consumpt.pdf
1
buddy barker "you couldn't summarize the articles you linked? " reading too much for you? Here's a summary, you're wrong "are you pro- wealthy people and companies hiding money offshore?" I'm pro people keeping what they work for and if your policies lead to people intentionally avoiding them, perhaps they should be reviews " what about medicare for all?" so long as inclusion is voluntary, theres not much i'm not for "you agreed with the middle class working citizens having to bail out wall street?" hell no
1
buddy barker "you actually just agreed with me." not on the stuff you're painfully ignorant about "articles that lie" citation needed "Yes keep what you earn, but at the same time pay your fair share" and there it is,the mythical fair share. Pray tell, what is this unknown amount? is 75.7% of all takes not enough? And i fail to see how having your money taken from you is the same as keeping what you earn " don't let your greed destroy economies and then expect the middle class to pay for it." oh like the gov does with inflation?
1
buddy barker "I mean the top 50 companies in America have collectively stored 1.4 trillion outside of the country and used their subsidiaries to avoid paying proper taxes or to lower their tax rate." citation needed "GOOGLE will help you" yet you seem absolutely incapable of using to back up your arguments "With all that money the country could be rebuilt." because the government has done such a phenomenal job in the past "Obviously tax loophoples need to be closed" yeah, make it worse for them, that will make them come back "Also are you pulling that 75.7% from 2014?" did it ever even cross your mind to read the citation before asking such drivel?
1
http://www.nap.edu/catalog/18319/priorities-for-research-to-reduce-the-threat-of-firearm-related-violence From a cdc study comissioned by the Obama administration in January of 2013 "Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies,” "defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals"
1
Heads Tails Believe it or not, just because someone didn't die, doesn't mean a gun wasn't used defensively
1
Heads Tails oh, it would seem you conveniently forgot to cite that particular statistic. And you forgot to cite that there is an actual causal link,not merely correlation. And that gun drive people to suicide and not the inverse,that those whom are suicidal are more likely to own guns. And that without guns,those suicides wouldn't have happened. And you might do something with that cdc study i linked to above,kinda blows a fair sized hole in your argument
1
Heads Tails "What statistic, you haven't given any numbers, at this point all you have is conjecture.." so you didn't read the study; listen buddy, if you're going to ignore everything i cite theres no real reason for me to do so "How about the crime statistics from Australia, you will see that gun crime and other crimes have gone down since there ban." yup, as it has in the US, faster i might add while at the same time there being more guns in the US than ever https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf record number of firearm background checks while at the same time https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls
1
Chris Kelly so the latter then
1
+cristop5 you've never had any formal education in statistics have you? If by some miracle you have, you may want to seek a refund from your instructor as they did an absolutely terrible job. If your "conclusion" is true why is it that murder in the US has been going down every single year while more and more guns have been being sold?
1
Patrick Bateman "Gun deaths are now the leading cause of death in the us" citation needed http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm they say you're wrong https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls See how it keeps going down? "Gun deaths are now the leading cause of death in the us" almost as if people drive less nowadays isnt it http://www.ssti.us/2014/02/vmt-drops-ninth-year-dots-taking-notice/
1
cristop5 "It's about basic numeracy and logical inference, not statistics" listen we get it, your ignorant on such matters, really don't need to reinforce it. But regardless, you completely ignored any other possible variable, you didn't mention trends before any action was taken,you conveniently ignored countries like Mexico or any country in Africa or south america which would've provided data that contradicted you "More guns in circulation means more gun deaths" you sure about that? how do you square this with your dogma then? https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf record number of firearm background checks while at the same time https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls murders go down every single year. Pray tell how does that equal more guns=more gun deaths cause the data is saying something else "It also means crazy or evil people can easily shoot strangers in large numbers - and they do so every few days" citation needed "your country" my country? Pray tell,what have you decided "my country" is? Cause i'm willing to bet you're totally wrong and just presumed something to be true because it suited your narrative "Shedden, Claresholm, Moncton, La Loche" Cairns, mass stabbing, ban knives Logan,mass shooting, ban guns Quakers hill, mass arson, ban fire Lin family murders,mass hitting, ban blunt objects Churchill fire, mass arson,ban fire again etc
1
Patrick Bateman more credible than what? the FBI? the CDC? the DOT? you do know they cited the same organizations,right?
1
cristop5 oh i was hoping you'd try to use that as proof, http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427985/medias-inflated-mass-shootings-count-wildly-misleading-ian-tuttle http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/12/no-there-were-not-355-mass-shootings-this-year that count has been massively over estimated Also, everything that was in my comment, and you focus on that one thing, the heck man. its almost as if you're intentionally ignoring the other bits. I asked several questions and you didn't answer a single one
1
Yeah, totally what I said, nice job not making shit up. The point is the singular source you have provided has routinely been taken to task for being both innacurate and inconsistent including by groups you'd be stupid to term right wing shills (I.e. Mother jones) Still haven't answered a single of my questions buddy, really starting to wonder why
1
"In the US they do on a regular basis" citation needed "Toddlers kill themselves or others at the rate of about one per month in the US." Citation needed And just a suggestion, if you should attempt to back up your claims, you might do well to not choose a source that's been repeatedly show to lie like you did last time "After all if mass shootings don't always cause fatalities, what's the problem?" I'd say the issue is fear mongering and intentionally misleading people to push an agenda but hey, that's just me
1
cristop5 "my claim was indeed backed up. " by a site that had been repeatedly show to lie and manipulate data "there are lots of mass shootings in the US and none in Australia" almost as if the US has a population and order of magnitude greater. And its good to know the shootings in logan, lockhart, melbourne, hectorsville etc didn't happen "you'll see in the month this article was published four road rage shooting incidents were reported in the US news with two fatalities" holy shit, two people?!?!?? out of how many hundred of millions of people and guns? Whilst terrible for them and their families, apparently we out be more worried about autoerotic asphyxiation as that kills 29900% more people per year "Toddlers" your "source" conveniently forgot to include the police reports they're referencing,how about that https://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/129419/nonpoolsub2012.pdf Apparently water is a greater threat to those under five than those evil scary mean guns BAN WATER!!! "But since gun deaths data is never going to be perfect how about you supply me with some numbers:" Murder with guns going down https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls Number of guns going up https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf Well that was easy "Numbers please." Pray tell,why should answer these idiotically loaded question when you have yet to answer a single one of mine? How to you rationalize the fact that there are more guns than ever in the US when at the same time the murder rate is going down to a century low? After all,you did say " More guns in circulation means more gun deaths." What country did you arbitrarily decide I'm form based on no actual evidence what soever?
1
cristop5 "You've had to re-define mass shootings to include a killing just two people and an incident of domestic violence." so you're saying that redefining something to further your agenda is bad? Huh,how bout that. Curious you take issue when I do it but are perfectly happy to use it to "prove" your side "I note you didn't answer any of my questions, " annoying isn't it, someone not answering your questions; tell you what buddy, i'll answer yours just as soon as you answer mine "the rate of two per month or 24 per year was fine. " you never fail to disappoint, on wonders why i bother to write anything at all i you're going to pay this little attention to it. What i actually said was that it was terrible for those involved but that you're more likely to die by suffocating while whacking it that from road rage but you just ignored all that Also,believe it or not, there are infact already laws about killing people with guns pretty much everywhere there are laws and yet people still due; how exactly will one more law stop anything?
1
cristop5 "I never re-defined anything." the website you "cited" did Stil not answering my questions then eh? just in case you missed the numerous times i've posted this Murder with guns going down https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls Number of guns going up https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf ""I like my gun(s). They're fun, they make me feel safe. I know there will always be gun owners who are (or become) angry/evil/crazy/clumsy/careless etc and kill and maim people but - that's not likely to be me so it's not my problem."" again, why i bother to speak when you're quite happy to put words in my mouth. Believe it or not, i don't believe in collective guilt, people are responsible for they own actions "Now this is not exactly a virtuous position, but at least you could stop posing as someone who cares about data, evidence, logic, society at large etc." oh that would be you, after all you're the one who cites websites who've been repeatedly proven false you're the one who cherry picks data and ignores the fact that people can in fact die by means other than gun; you're the one who has continued to ignore the fact that while there are more guns that ever in the US, the murder rate with them is at a near century low; you ignore the fact that "Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies,” and that "defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals" http://www.nap.edu/catalog/18319/priorities-for-research-to-reduce-the-threat-of-firearm-related-violence Again Murder with guns going down https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls Number of guns going up https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf
1
cristop5 probably pissing in the wind but maybe,just maybe,it'll get through this time Murder with guns going down https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls Number of guns going up https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf
1
Torgo "10 cases in history" that may be the single most idiotic thing I've read on this videos comments, and that it certainly saying something
1
Cool, let's talk statistics and data http://www.nap.edu/catalog/18319/priorities-for-research-to-reduce-the-threat-of-firearm-related-violence From a cdc study comissioned by the Obama administration in January of 2013 "Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies,” "defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals" http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf "The Harvard study attempted to answer the question of whether or not banning firearms would reduce murders and suicides. Researchers looked at crime data from several European countries and found that countries with HIGHER gun ownership often had LOWER murder rates. Russia, for example, enforces very strict gun control on its people, but its murder rate remains quite high. In fact, the murder rate in Russia is four times higher than in the “gun-ridden” United States, cites the study. ”Homicide results suggest that where guns are scarce other weapons are substituted in killings.” In other words, the elimination of guns does not eliminate murder, and in the case of gun-controlled Russia, murder rates are quite high. The study revealed several European countries with significant gun ownership, like Norway, Finland, Germany and France – had remarkably low murder rates. Contrast that with Luxembourg, “where handguns are totally banned and ownership of any kind of gun is minimal, had a murder rate nine times higher than Germany in 2002. The study found no evidence to suggest that the availability of guns contributes to higher murder rates anywhere in the world. ”Of course, it may be speculated that murder rates around the world would be higher if guns were more available. But there is simply no evidence to support this.” Number of guns is up https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf Number of murders is down https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/
1
Congrats, you could not have missed the point more if you tried; ever answer the question or forever hold your peace. How is it that the US can concurrently have a murder rate that is its lowest in decades and also have record breaking number of firearm background checks almost every month?
1
DarthCipient so you don't have an answer, why am i not surprised? In case you were wondering, what you're feeling is called cognitive dissonance
1
DarthCipient greater number of back ground checks implying a greater number of firearms in the US, the rules for background checks have not changed And if it were so self evident, why do you seem incapable of giving an answer
1
DarthCipient " But since you seem to be a little dense" if ever a pot called a kettle black As you are singularly talented at completely missing the mark, i'll make this as simple as i can. There has been no sweeping change in the law regarding background checks in the US; the reason that more are happening is because more people are applying for them and whilst its true that some of them might not result in a purchase, a great many do.Were it that there was a change in the law we would see a sudden spike, not the up and down but overall upward trend that we do https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf The end implication of this is that a record number of guns are being sold in the US while at the same time, the murder rate,including murder with firearms, is at the lowest point in decades
1
DarthCipient But how is that possible when there are more guns than ever?
1
Jeminai Waters " its a thing that has worked." by what standard? because murders went down? http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html beyond the fact that murder spiked three years after port arthur https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/1tabledatadecoverviewpdf/table_1_crime_in_the_united_states_by_volume_and_rate_per_100000_inhabitants_1994-2013.xls Even with out those magical fairy dust laws, the murder rate in the US plummeted too. So I'll ask you the same thing i did darth, if guns are such unspeakably evil things, how is it there are more of them the US than ever at the same times the US has its lowest murder rate in decades? ", that some COMMON SENSE might help to save lives" oh yes please great and wise prophet, do share with us your get wisdom and do try to be specific " america has never been invaded" 1812 never happened,nor did ww2 "if you are PRO gun you quite simply are fixated with the unnatural power a person feels when holding a gun." oh thank sweet christ you're here to tell me what i believe. Let me try; if you're anti gun, you like to rape little boys. wow thats actually kinda a really idiotic thing for me to do "it is a mechanism designed to take lives" then the overwhelming majority of firearms in the US are malfunctioning every single day. "and that is a power that has no place in the hands of the common people" Christ,this is just honestly so pathetic http://www.nap.edu/catalog/18319/priorities-for-research-to-reduce-the-threat-of-firearm-related-violence can't have people defending themselves, can we "fundamentally under developed emotionally, and intellectually they are." hey more bigotry! at least your make no attempts to hide what an awful twat you are "law enforcement use them to deter offenders " no they don't " protect others in the community" no they don't, Warren vs DC "what was not intended was every weaksauce loser being armed to the teeth around said law enforcement." citation needed "if you are terrified of government having all the power and taking it from you, how about developing a government you trust, that serves you and stop voting out of ignorance and irrational fear?" false dilemma,believe it or not people can and do both "stop voting out of ignorance and irrational fear?" you criticizing people for they ignorance and irrational fear is hypocrisy at its zenith any other ignorant,hate filled tirades you'd like to share?
1
Jeminai Waters oh now thats just mean, i'm sure they're very upset to hear that
1
Jeminai Waters eloquent, or rather not, as always
1