Comments by "TheVilla Aston" (@thevillaaston7811) on "The WW2 Showdown In The Middle East | Desert Generals | Timeline" video.
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@rbilleaud
OK. Lets us examine what you stated:
'Montgomery was an incompetent fool' your words.
Here is what some other people stated:
"Field-Marshal Montgomery was the one general who never suffered a reverse”
German General Günther Blumentritt.
"General Montgomery is a very able, dynamic type of army commander"
US General Dwight D. Eisenhower.
"small, very alert, wonderfully conceited, and the best soldier--or so it seems--I have met in this war."
US General George S Patton.
"British troops under Montgomery's command had smashed the German corps under General Rommel at El Alamein. During the Normandy landing Montgomery had ably commanded the Allied forces and their advance to the banks of the Seine. Montgomery was above medium height, very agile, soldierly, trim and created an impression of a lively and intelligent man."
Russian General Georgy Zhukov.
Notice that these words are all from other Army Group or single army commanders and, with the exception of Eisenhower all of them, like Montgomery, had personal combat
So much for him being an incompetent fool.
Shall we go on?
If so, we pause to note that neither Nigewl Hamilton Richard Mead are old enough to have served in the war...
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'He won one Battle....ONE! Against a foe who was cut-off from his supply lines and with very little Fuel for his
Army' Your words.
At ALAM EL HALFA, (Eighth Army)
4 divisions, defeated the (Panzer Army Africa) 6 divisions. Montgomery also won at the Second Battle of El Alamein, Battle of El Agheila; Battle of Medenine; Battle of the Mareth Line, Battle of Wadi Akarit; Hskey, Overlord, the Scheldt, the Northern half of the Battle of the Bulge, and the Rhine.
'Against a foe who was cut-off from his supply lines and with very little Fuel for his Army. Add to that he had a huge advantage in man-power, in Arms, in Munitions...everything!' Your words.
According to those that were actually there, there was far more work to be done than building up supplies:
‘without consulting Cairo, he issued immediate orders that, if Rommel attacked, all units should fight on the ground where they and that there should be no withdrawal or surrender. The effect on the Army was electric.’
‘I was dumfounded by the rapidity with which he had grasped the situation facing him, the ability with which had grasped the essentials, the clarity of his plans , and above all his unbounded self-confidence—a self-confidence with which he inspired all those that he came into contact with.’
Alanbrooke
Everybody said what a change there was since Montgomery had taken command. I could feel the truth of this with joy and comfort.’
Churchill.
‘I have always considered that Montgomery’s first two or three days with his Army was one of the most rewarding experiences of my life, and the way in which he put over his personality, right through the Army, was really remarkable. Besides talking to the staff and laying down what he called his ‘military philosophy’, he met all Commanders and their troops and, of course, examined in great detail the ground now held and that over which we would have to fight. I accompanied him during the reconnaissances which resulted in decisions as to the way he proposed to dispose his forces for the defensive battles which we all expected. It would be Rommel’s last desperate to reach the Delta, and failure would remove once and for all the threat to our Middle East Base.’
De Guingand.
"Montgomery who we first encountered in 1940 was probably the best tactician of the war if not the best strategist. He made mistakes. Rommel made mistakes as he too was stubborn. Montgomery when he arrived in Africa changed the way the 8th army fought, he was a very good army trainer and was ruthless in his desire to win, he changed the battle into an infantry battle supported by artillery."
German Generalmajor FW von Mellenthin.
'Because of Monty the Falaise Gap wasn't closed' Your words.
"In halting Patton at Argentan, however, I did not consult Montgomery. The decision to stop Patton was mine alone. I much preferred a solid shoulder at Argentan to the possibility of a broken neck at Falaise".
From US General Omar Bradley's A Soldier's Story book. Page 377.
'and they ended up being the very soldiers who cost him (and 20,000 soldiers) in Market Garden.' Your words.
MARKET GARDEN casualties amounted to 17,000. This figure should be compared to other undertakings at that time at at AACHEN (20,000 casualties), LORRAINE (45,000 casualties), and the HURTGEN FOREST (55,000 casualties).
'He's a defensive Commander and he's not comfortable when his army is called on to the offense.' Your words.
You have used the present tense. Actually Montgomery died in 1976.
Montgomery chased Rommel 1,400 miles across North Africa, with hundreds and hundreds of miles between supply ports before Rommel could stand and fight. In Normandy...
‘All along the front we pressed forward in hot pursuit of the fleeing enemy. In four days the British spearheads, paralleled by equally forceful American advances on their right, covered a distance of 195 miles, one of the many feats of marching by our formations in the great pursuit across France.’
US General Dwight D Eisenhower.
Any questions?..
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Montgomery won at Alam el Halfa, Alamein, El Agheila,
Medenine, Mareth Line, Wadi Akarit, Husky, Normandy, the Scheldt, the Northern half of the Bulge, and the Rhine.
Montgomery had fought in the front line in the First World War, being wounded twice and being awarded the DSO. As a lowly single division commander in France in 1940, in trying circumstances, he perfomed with distiction, closing he gap on the allied right caused by the Belgian surrender, and in bringing his division home almost complete.
Where is the joke in that?
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@infectious420
Montgomey took over command of Eighth Army in August 1942. His first army command...
‘without consulting Cairo, he issued immediate orders that, if Rommel attacked, all units should fight on the ground where they and that there should be no withdrawal or surrender. The effect on the Army was electric.’
‘I was dumfounded by the rapidity with which he had grasped the situation facing him, the ability with which had grasped the essentials, the clarity of his plans , and above all his unbounded self-confidence—a self-confidence with which he inspired all those that he came into contact with.’
Alanbrooke
‘I saw a great many soldiers that day, who greeted me with grins and cheers. I inspected my own regiment, the 4th Hussars, or as many of them as they dared to bring together – perhaps fifty or sixty – near the field cemetery, in which a number of their comrades had been buried. All this was moving, but with it all there grew a sense of the reviving ardour of the Army. Everybody said what a change there was since Montgomery had taken command. I could feel the truth of this with joy and comfort.’
Churchill.
‘I have always considered that Montgomery’s first two or three days with his Army was one of the most rewarding experiences of my life, and the way in which he put over his personality, right through the Army, was really remarkable. Besides talking to the staff and laying down what he called his ‘military philosophy’, he met all Commanders and their troops and, of course, examined in great detail the ground now held and that over which we would have to fight. I accompanied him during the reconnaissances which resulted in decisions as to the way he proposed to dispose his forces for the defensive battles which we all expected. It would be Rommel’s last desperate to reach the Delta, and failure would remove once and for all the threat to our Middle East Base.’
De Guingand
"Montgomery who we first encountered in 1940 was probably the best tactician of the war if not the best strategist. He made mistakes. Rommel made mistakes as he too was stubborn. Montgomery when he arrived in Africa changed the way the 8th army fought, he was a very good army trainer and was ruthless in his desire to win, he changed the battle into an infantry battle supported by artillery. There has been much talk of using Montgomery to 'tidy up in the 'bulge' we would have done the same thing"
German Generalmajor FW von Mellenthin
Notice that all of the above peopler that I have quoted have one thing in common...They were actually there.
At Alam el Halfa, Montgomery's four divisions beat Rommel's six divisions. Where is the joke in that?
At Alamein, Montgomery ended the war in Africa as a contest, with just 13,500 allied casualties out of 200,000 troops. Where is the joke in that?
Montgomery went 1400 miles across the desert to defeat Rommel at El Agheila,
Medenine, Mareth Line, and Wadi Akarit. Where is the joke in that?
For Husky, he won the argument against the US plan for landing troops all around the island, with his plan for concentrating allied landings in one place. The campaign ended in a matter of weeks. Where is he joke in that?
For Normandy, Montgomery undertook to get allied armies to the Seine by D+90. He got them there by D+78, givimng the Germans a bigger defeat than Stalingrad. Where is the joke in that?
‘Knowing that his old antagonist of the desert, Rommel, was to be in charge of the defending forces, Montgomery predicted that enemy action would be characterized by constant assaults carried out with any force immediately available from division down to a battalion or even company size. He discounted the possibility that the enemy under Rommel would ever select a naturally strong defensive line and calmly and patiently go about the business of building up the greatest possible amount of force in order to launch one full-out offensive into our beach position. Montgomery’s predictions were fulfilled to the letter.’ ... ‘Montgomery’s tactical handling of the British and Canadians on the Eastward flank and his co-ordination of these operations with those of the Americans to the westward involved the kind of work in which he excelled.'
Eisenhower
Where is the joke in that?
The Scheldt was a month long campaign, covering 100 miles of shoreline and some of the most formidable shore defences in Europe. Where was the joke in that?
The Northern half of the Bulge was a mess of the US commanders own making, which Montgomery had to sort out.
‘The operations of the American 1st Army had developed into a series of individual holding actions. Montgomery's contribution to restoring the situation was that he turned a series of isolated actions into a coherent battle fought according to a clear and definite plan. It was his refusal to engage in premature and piecemeal counter-attacks which enabled the Americans to gather their reserves and frustrate the German attempts to extend their breakthrough’.
German Genral, Hasso von Manteuffel. Commander, 5th Panzer Army:
“I find it difficult to refrain from expressing my indignation at Hodges and Ridgeway and my appreciation of Montgomery whenever I talk about St.Vith. It is my firm opinion that if it hadn't been for Montgomery, the First US Army, and especially the troops in the St.Vith salient, would have ended in a debacle that would have gone down in history.”
“I'm sure you remember how First Army HQ fled from Spa leaving food cooking on the stoves, officers' Xmas presents from home on their beds and, worst of all, top secret maps still on the walls... First Army HQ never contacted us with their new location and I had to send an officer to find them. He did and they knew nothing about us...(Montgomery) was at First Army HQ when my officer arrived. A liaison officer from Montgomery arrived at my HQ within 24 hrs. His report to Montgomery is what saved us...”
US General Robert W Hasbrouck
Where was the joke in that?
and the Rhine...
‘Montgomery's preparations for the assault across the Lower Rhine were elaborate. His armies were confronted with the greatest water obstacle in Western Europe (the river at Wesel was twice as wide as at Oppenheim) and their crossing was expected to require, as Eisenhower has said, " the largest and most difficult amphibious operation undertaken since the landings on the coast of Normandy."’
Chester Wilmot
‘Montgomery was always the master in the methodical preparation of forces for a formal, set piece attack. In this case he made the most meticulous preparations because we knew that along the front just north of the Ruhr the enemy had his best remaining troops including portions of the First Paratroop Army.’
‘The March 24 operation sealed the fate of Germany. Already, of course, we had secured two bridgeheads farther to the south. But in each of these cases surprise and good fortune had favoured us. The northern operation was made in the teeth of the greatest resistance the enemy could provide anywhere along the long river. Moreover, it was launched directly on the edge of the Ruhr and the successful landing on the eastern bank placed strong forces in position to deny the enemy use of significant portions of that great industrial area.’
Eisenhower
‘Montgomery wouldn’t hear of it. An early crossing did not fit the plan he had been devising with great thoroughness to meet all contingencies. The resourceful Germans had shown in the Ardennes that they were capable of the unexpected. Bradley, Patton and Hodges might have been willing to gamble and Montgomery was pleased that they had succeeded. But he was not interested in easy victories that might be of limited significance, and he did not believe they fully understood the risks they had taken or the extent of the far greater achievement he was aiming for. Risk taking was for amateurs. The results of the first day of his massive Rhine-crossing operation demonstrated the value of doing things right – six divisions were firmly across the river at a cost of only 1,200 casualties.’
US author Norman Gelb
Where is the joke in any of that?
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@desmondmiller3198
THE GUNS AT LAST LIGHT
THE WAR IN WESTERN EUROPE, 1944-1945
Rick Atkinson
LITTLE BROWN 2013.
PROLOGUE
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‘Of Patton a comrade noted, “He gives the impression of a man biding his time”. In fact, he had revealed his anxiety in a recent note to his wife. “I fear the war will be over before I get loose, but who can say? Fate and the hand of God still runs most shows.”
Notice that this Patton, seems to have have no regard for the progress of the allies, his thoughts seem to be about his chances of personal advancement.
Of Montgomery on Patton, all I could find this:
MONTY
The Field-Marshal
1944-1976
NIGEL HAMILTON
HAMISH HAMILTON
LONDON 1986
P 180
Monty had, however, continued to show concern about Bradley's front the more so because, in contrast to General Bradley's confidence, Monty did not think highly of either Hodges or Simpson, the First and Ninth US Army Commanders. If only Bradley would transfer Patton to the Ardennes or preferably to Ninth US Army's sector, then Monty was sure all would be well—T.M. Montgomery entirely agreed with your point that it would be a great help to future operations if General Patton is transferred North of the ARDENNES'
Hardly like Montgomery seeing Patton as a rival, was it?
But of course, you have other evidence?..
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