Comments by "TheVilla Aston" (@thevillaaston7811) on "Who to Blame? John Frost on Operation Market Garden's Failure WW2" video.

  1. 'if you dig deeper he was jealous of General George Paton' Why would he be? He was in different army, at the other end of the Front and was higher up the chain of command.
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  2. The blame for Market Garden ultimately rests with Eisenhower, who by September 1944 had appointed himself as allied land forces commander. Montgomery had no final say on the airborne MARKET plan. The word on this belonged to the commander, First Allied Airborne Army, US General Lewis Brereton. 'But like everything else that Monty failed at, someone else MUST be blamed.' On what evidence do you base this opinion?
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  3. 'Heres the REALITY we would have been inside Germany in December '44 with Patton!' How so? What did Patton ever do?
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  4.  @bigpants6121  The aerial photography can be seen on line. Unlike the Hollywood film 'A Bridge Too Far', which includes a photograph of post war AFV, disguised as Second World War machines, shown in clear at a nice oblique angle, the actual photographs were grainy overhead shots, which, only after a considerable amount of enhancement showed what seemed to be a few Mark III tanks that identified as belonging to the Hermann Goering Division training and replacement unit. Any information purporting to come from the Dutch Underground at that time was disregarded due to the German 'Englandspiel' penetration of the Dutch Underground. MARKET GARDEN was no different to any other matter in this regard.
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  5. Montgomery was good. The British were good. The Canadiands were good. The Russians were good. End of list.
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  6.  @akgeronimo501  R 'The operation should have never happened. The bulk of forces should have been used to the south in the Lorraine.' Even though 'to the south in the Lorraine' was nowhere near near vital German areas, was far more difficult to supply and the allied forces there were one hundred miles from the Rhine, Eisenhower had the option to prioritize an attack in that area. Montgomery had stated to Eisenhower that the an all out attack should be concentrated in the North. Failing that resources should concentrated in the South, but such a decision needed to be made. Eisenhower did neither and nobody went anywhere.
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  7.  @akgeronimo501  R 'It was a waste of powder and men. Remember "The British will fight until the last ally."' America, more like. Out of the fighting in two wars until the outcome was no longer in doubt. Out of Vietnam as soon as thing got too hot.
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  8.  @akgeronimo501  R 'The British Army has struggled, in the main, in the offense. All the way back to the American revolution. Even Lord Wellington would look to the defense. I'm not sure the issue, but it exists. They certainly struggle with large muscle movements. Examples are Sicily, Normandy, the pursuit of the Germans was difficult for them.' ROTFL The only mistake in the American sideshow was to send a bunch of Krauts out there. End of. In sicily, Patton threw his toys out of Pram and then cleared off from the battle to grab headline with the totally unnecessary attack on Palermo and had to be enticed back into the battle by being given the prize of Messina. End of. Normandy. Yea with 84% of German armour facing British 2nd Army, leaving the US forcres to (eventually) tobreak out, all as a campaign plan Montgomery had worked out and briefed Allied leaders on before D-Day. Even then, the British 2nd Army breakout was just as swift as the US breakout, as evidenced by Eisenhower: ‘All along the front we pressed forward in hot pursuit of the fleeing enemy. In four days the British spearheads, paralleled by equally forceful American advances on their right, covered a distance of 195 miles, one of the many feats of marching by our formations in the great pursuit across France.’ His words. End of.
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  9.  @nickdanger3802  The USA was not in the the fighting until 1943, by which time the Germans were up to their necks in Russia and were increasing short of troops and equipment. Britain condemned Germany to a two front war in 1940 and thus sealed Hitler's ultimate fate. No American gets to come on here and tell Britain anything about who did what in the war.
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  10.  @BigAL0074  Brownings instructions to Urquhart were capture the bridge as the first priority. Ultimately responsibility goes up to Eisenhower, who has to take responsibity for all allied actions, not just the best bits. R.I.P. Harry Dunn, died 19.08.2019, aged 19. Mown down on a quiet country road by Anne Sacoolas of Fairfax County, Virginia, USA, who has now been diplomatic immunity by the US government.
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  11. 'Meanwhile Montgomery is ranting and making theatrics tearing up Eisenhower's orders right in his face wanting to march his 21st army 500 miles straight into Berlin' Where is this recorded? 'I agree with Patton's critical assessment of him' What assessment was that?
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  12. Larry Lamb 'Ultimately it was Montgomery’s fault.' Ultimately it was Eisenhower’s fault. He was by then both Supreme Commander and Land Forces Commander.
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  13.  @coachhannah2403  I so far as anyone can state, Market Garden, even without Arnhem, had an effect on the German V2 campaign against Britain. With Arnhem, it can only be assumed that the German V2 campaign against Britain would have moregreatly affected.
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  14.  @coachhannah2403  Doubtless you are an American. V2 Rockets caused 9,300 casualties in Britain, plus a considerable amount of damage to a country that was entering its sixth year of war. What do mean 'Not sure that was worth the expenditure of men and materiel'?
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  15.  @coachhannah2403  Market Garden was designed to help win the war by giving the allies the opportunity of surriunding the Ruhr and stiffling German industrial production. It was mounted by 21st Army Group and First Allied Airborne Army without drawing resources away from the other Western allied armies continent. It wa mounted at point when the Germans were reeling from their defeat in France and that they were being preceived as being vulnerable to to attack. The understandable desire to hinder V2 attacks on British civilians was actually a secondary motive for the undrtaking and it influenced to decision to include Arnhem in the plan. Who can criticize that motive? German attacks on Britain killed in the region of 50,000 people. The equivalent figure for the USA was 6. There was no known way of stopping a V2 after it had been launched. The only known of stopping the attack was to prevent the launching of the rockets.
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  16.  @coachhannah2403  How would it have lengthened the war?
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  17.  @garyrobertson5629  Here is an American view on the advance on Messina… From a review of BITTER VICTORY The Battle for Sicily, 1943, By Carlo D'Este. Review written by Walter Lord in the New York Times: 27/11/1988.: ‘Montgomery was heading for Messina too, but the German forces still on the island threw up a tough defense line and it was late July before Montgomery worked his way through them and resumed his advance. Fans of the movie ''Patton'' think they know what happened next. Montgomery marched into Messina at the head of his triumphant troops - to find a smirking Patton waiting for him. Mr. D'Este assures us it didn't happen that way. Patton was indeed trying to beat Montgomery to Messina, but Montgomery would not make a race of it. He wanted only to keep the Germans from escaping and realized Patton was in the best position to accomplish that. In fact he urged Patton to use roads assigned to the Eighth Army.’ For your convenience, the link below will take you to this review… www.nytimes.com/1988/11/27/books/the-finish-line-was-messina.html And was there any competent Yank in the US 1943-45 diet version of the Second World War ?..
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  18. Gavin made his owm mind up. Frost was correct about what?
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  19. R.I.P. Harry Dunn, died 19.08.2019, aged 19.
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  20. Montgomery was with his armies. Eisenhower was still in Normandy.
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  21.  @akgeronimo501  26.09.20. 9am. What a pile of of rubbish I have uncovered here. Stand by...
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  22.  @akgeronimo501  Ah...After this passage in time I thought you had gone off to join the Three Percenters.
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  23.  @akgeronimo501  'LOL. Pulled your Bollocks from the fire and you bitch. A simple thank you would have sufficed. ' Please, no need to thank us. Being number in the Second World War is what we did.
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  24.  @akgeronimo501  'The "resources" in the North would have been mute when Aachen was turned. You really don't understand warfare. LOL' I 'don't understand ' your comment. I doubt if anyone does.
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  25.  @akgeronimo501  I saw the foreign news on TV this morning. A televised debate in Cleveland, Ohio, USA between a bloke called Biden and a foul mouthered blustering bullyboy liar who seems to spend too much time using a hair dryer. That made two for liars in Cleveland, Ohio, USA last night... The other is of course your very own creep... Big Woody.
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  26.  @akgeronimo501  R 'Nope, just busy killing Moose. It is the fall.' What a relief. This same news report about these Three Percenters interviewed some American bloke who stated that there are 460 millions guns in the USA. With your 64 guns would you be tooled up enough for membership of that Three Percenters group?
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  27. No. The failure was down to the allies not having an overall plan after Overlord was completed at he end of August 1944.
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  28.  @akgeronimo501  And Big Woody is where?..
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  29.  @akgeronimo501  I'd given up on you R. I had guessed to had been arrested at one of those MAGA riots we have seen on the telly. Rick Atkins served where in the six year Second World War?.. Those medical supply figures...crucial.
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  30.  @akgeronimo501  The medical figures are important. Remember no one is more important than a medic when you need one. Yea, that's why Americans have to carry a bunch of credit cards to pay for an ambulance. But back on topic, this should let you know all you need know: The Emergency Medical Services, Volume 1: England and Wales, Edited by Dunn, Cuthbert, L. London: HMSO, 1952 The Emergency Medical Services, Volume 2: Scotland, Northern Ireland and Principal Air Raids on Industrial Centres in Great Britain, Edited by Dunn, Cuthbert L. London: HMSO, 1953 The Royal Air Force MedicalServices, Volume 1: Administration, Edited by Rexford-Welch, S. C. London: HMSO, 1954 The Royal Air Force Medical Services, Volume 2: Commands, Edited by Rexford-Welch, S. C. London: HMSO, 1955 The Royal Air Force Medical Services, Volume 3: Campaigns, Edited by Rexford-Welch, S. C. London: HMSO, 1958 The Royal Naval Medical Service, Volume 1: Administration, Coulter, Jack L. S. London: HMSO, 1954 The Royal Naval Medical Service, Volume 2: Operations, Coulter Jack L. S. London: HMSO, 1956 The Army Medical Services, Administration, Volume 1, Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1953 The Army Medical Services, Administration, Volume 2, Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1955 The Army Medical Services, Campaigns, Volume 1: France and Belgium, 1939-40, Norway, Battle of Britain, Libya, 1940-42, East Africa, Greece, 1941, Crete, Iraq, Syria, Persia, Madagascar, Malta, Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1956 The Army Medical Services, Campaigns, Volume 2: Hong Kong, Malaya, Iceland and the Faroes, Libya, 1942-43, North-West Africa, Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1957 The Army Medical Services, Campaigns, Volume 3: Sicily, Italy, Greece (1944-45), Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1959 The Army Medical Services, Campaigns, Volume 4: North-West Europe, Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1962 The Army Medical Services, Campaigns, Volume 5: Burma, Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1966 The Civilian Health and Medical Services, Volume 1: The Civilian Health Services; Other Civilian Health and Medical Services, MacNalty, Sir Arthur A. London: HMSO, 1953 The Civilian Health and Medical Services, Volume 2: The Colonies, The Medical Services of the Ministry of Pensions, Public Health in Scotland, Public Health in Northern Ireland, MacNalty, Sir Arthur A. London: HMSO, 1955 Medical Services in War: The Principal Medical Lessons of the Second World War, MacNalty, Sir Arthur A. London: HMSO, 1968 Medicine and Pathology, Edited by Cope, Sir Zachary London: HMSO, 1952 Surgery, Edited by Cope, Sir Zachary London: HMSO, 1954 Casualties and Medical Statistics, Edited by Franklin, William M. London: HMSO, 1972 Medical Research, Edited by Green, F. H. K. and Major-General Sir Gordon Covell London: HMSO, 1953 Enjoy! So his Atkins writes stories rather than history?..
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  31.  @akgeronimo501  Not really R... An American undergoes a lengthy, period of treatment at a swish US hospital. One day he is called into a meeting there, where his consultant states that he has some bad news, and some good news for him. The consultant goes on to say that the bad news is that patient's insurance will not cover the cost of the treatment and so, as per the small print in the insurance plan, the hospital will not be continuing with the treatment, and will be taking his life's savings, his car, and in six months time, his house and its contents to make good the financial shortfall. And also, if those monies are still not enough, his wife and daughter will have to go on the game until the account is squared. The patient stunned, can only say: 'so what is the good news?'. 'Ah', the consultant replies, 'you have now got alzheimer's - so go home and forget all about it'. 'Nice now what did any of them say?' I don't know, I have not read them. 'Did they mention needing C-47 to evacuate their wounded?' I cannot say? Perhaps they mentioned the amount of medical facilities that Britain made available to US forces (Example: Netley Hospital), the amount of US casulalty evacuation and repatripation that British ships undertook. Shall we have a look ?..
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  32.  @akgeronimo501  R 'Since they were stocked from US supplies, I would think a thank you is in order.' Your words. This took five minutes to find: 'In fact our armed forces in Britain, ground as well as air, receive as reverse lend-lease, with no payment by us, one third of all the supplies and equipment they currently require, Britain furnishes 90% of their medical supplies ' Extension of Lend-Lease Act : hearings before the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, Seventy-Eighth Congress, second session. Government Printing Office. April 26, 1944. p. 2 Over to you...
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  33.  @akgeronimo501  R ‘None of that included Morphine or the grandaddy of them all Penicillin.’ How do you know? ‘The ones fighting at the time were getting on hundred percent of their supplies from the US.’ How do you know? ‘You do know that Democrats lied to congress about lend lease?’ No, I don’t know. How do you know? ‘The Republicans wanted the "allies" to repay whatever was "loaned". This is why no one knows the exact amount of things sent.’ How so? Britain knows exactly what was sent to us. You have seen the figures. Why would leaders in the USA not know what was sent? If they did not know what was sent, how could they work out what should be repaid? According to what I have seen, decades later, another Republican, Donald Trump, had not repaid a girl dance troops called the ‘USA Freedom Kid’ for appearing at one of his rallies. Perhaps Donald was preoccupied with looking at the backside of the oldest of those girl, he forgot to get his cheque book out. ‘"Supplanting it [42 production] in 1943 would be thirty thousand tanks- more than three per hour around the clock, and more in a year than Germany would build from 1939 to 1945." Even better.’ Even better than what? Germany produced 67,000 tanks, Britain and Russia produced 140,000 between them. My apologies for the length of this, but it is important for framing. "More than 12 percent of the British population now served in the armed forces; with national mobilization nearly complete, severe manpower shortages loomed if the war dragged on, particularly if it required storming the glacis of Festung Europa across the Channel. British deaths already exceeded 100,000, with thousands more missing, 20,000 merchant mariners lost, and 45,000 dead in the United Kingdom from German air raids. Salvation lay here, in America. The green and feeble U.S. Army of just a few years earlier now exceeded 6 Million, led by 1,000 generals, 7,000 colonels, and 343,000 lieutenants. The Army Air Forces since mid-1941 had grown 3,500 percent, the Army Corps of Engineers 4,000 percent. A Navy that counted eight aircraft carriers after Pearl Harbor would have fifty, large and small, by the end of 1943. More cargo vessels would be guilt this year in the United States-liberty ship now took just fifty days, from keel laying to launch- than existed in the entire British merchant fleet. Just today, perhaps as a subtle reminder to Churchill before his arrival, Roosevelt had publicly announced that 'production of airplanes by the United States' - 86,000 in 1943 now exceeds that of all nations combined. Of the 48 billion in war supplies provided by the United States to its allies, two thirds would go to Britain." Its too late, the crisis was in 1940, when the USA was nowhere to be seen. Rick Atkinson… I exchanged emails with him on points in his book ‘The Guns at Last Light’ - after Big Woody made the mistake of quoting from that work. Atkinson seems to be a nice guy. You seem to be making the same mistake. ‘Just stop, you little asses were kicked and you dad had to come get the Bully out of your yard. So again, all that is required is a thank you. In fact Churches in England should be required to fly the Stars and Strips on Sundays.’ The Red Flag would be more appropriate, after all Britain and Russia defeated Germany. How are you getting with those stats for British imports of medical supplies?
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  34.  @akgeronimo501  R How is it going with Donald Trump?
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  35. It was actually one parachute brigade assigned to take Arnhem Bridge, not the entire dicision.
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  36. The buck stops with Eisenhower - he was land forces commander and Supreme Commander at the time of Arnhem.
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  37. R.I.P. Harry Dunn, died 19.08.2019, aged 19.
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  38.  @BigAL0074  The chain is almost endless. Eisenhower's muddled thinking led directly to the Market Garden decision. Eisenhower had little command experience when he appointed himself as land forces commander - he did not even have any personal combat to bring to bear. Are the people who appointed him to blame? Dutch Underground information was ignored . Who is to blame ? The people who actually ignored it? But their actions were, at the time routine, due to the German 'Englandspiel' penetration of the Dutch Underground. Were the people who allowed the 'Englandspiel' situation to get out of hand to blame? The US 82nd failed take boats to what for what was to be an assault on bridges over rivers. There is no doubt that Brereton, who was head of the airborne forces should take his share. Yet he neatly slid into the background.
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  39.  @BigAL0074  There is nothing muddld about this. You stated that the buck stopped with Browning. No the buck stopped wih Eisenhower. Strategic decisions, tactical decisions - taking ultimate responsibility went with the job.
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  40.  @BigAL0074  Big Woody is also known on YT as Para Dave. He is from Cleveland, Ohio USA and is aged somewhere beween 12 and 25. CHESTER WILLMOT THE STRUGGLE FOR EUROPE WM. COLLINS, SONS AND CO LTD. 1954 CHAPTER XXV. THE TIDE OF FORTUNE P536 ‘On September 4th, before receiving this proposal, Eisenhower issued a fresh directive, ordering the forces north-west of the Ardennes (21st Army Group and two corps of First U.S. Army) “to secure Antwerp, reach the sector of the Rhine covering the Ruhr and then seize the Ruhr.”’ If this Chandler bloke comes on here I will soon put him right.
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  41.  @BigAL0074  If anyone wants to bring this Edward Chandler on here I will soon sort him out. Perhaps he is a mate of William Weidner.
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  42. What memo?
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  43. Total rubbish. The main reason for operation was to try to keep the war moving due to British manpower and financial constraints. As well as this, Germany was firing V Wepons fro the Neatherlands towards Britain and this had to be stopped. R.I.P. Harry Dunn, died 19.08.2019, aged 19.
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  44.  @paulbien8421  What fairytales? Eisenhower made the decision to prioritise Market Garden over the Scheldt. The build up of British Canadian forces for the Scheldt contiunued, my own father and uncle among them as Market Garden was planned and executed.
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  45.  @paulbien8421  Eisenhower has to take ultimate responsibility. US historians cannot just pick and chose wich bits are down to him.
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  46.  @paulbien8421  But it is all hindsight. Those decision makers can only be judged on the circumstances at that time.
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  47. Eisenhower was both Supreme Commander and land forces commander by September 1944. He bares the final blame.
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  48. ' ( after market garden the cadians fought there a heavy battle ) the bild up started whit the landings ..' Canadian and British forces foight in the Reichwald.
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  49. I oubt if the fim is true.
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  50. Its a chauvinistic Hollywood film, so it would.
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  51. The information was inconclusive. What would have been said id the operation had been cancelled|? In any case Eisenhower had the opportunity to cancel Market Garden.
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  52. Bradley Harshbarger Big Woody is also known as Para Dave who is an ex British soldier who went to Sandhurst. Actually he comes fron Cleveland, Ohio, USA. Doubtless the only Sandhurst he went to was Sandhurst Drive, Ohio. The only additional resources given to Market Garden was enough fuel for one Division for for a two week period. This was taken from Bradley's US First Army.
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  53. Total Rubbish. It was dusk, there were four serviceable tanks. What were they supposed to do?
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  54.  @sf14031952  Oder beweisen Sie sich als Dicker, indem Sie an chauvinistischen Hollywood-Kutteln glauben.
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  55. What experience did US paras have before D-Day?
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  56. So stopping supplies getting through to allow the Germans to fie rockets at Britain was of no import?
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  57.  @coachhannah2403  Not really... FAAA was to be sustained by air until its link up with XXX Corps (That is the ground ‘GARDEN’ force for the undertaking, to save you looking it up), and even before the operation, the only resources diverted to the build up were 500 tons per day, by air that had previously been used to supply the civilian population of Paris in the immediate aftermath of the liberation of that city. This was set against the additional resources that were already arriving from Dieppe (liberated 01.09. 44), Ostend (Liberated 09.09.44), and Le Havre, solely for US use (Liberated 12.09.44). All this was in addition to the 14,000 tons per day that was being equally split between Bradley’s and Montgomery’s armies. Also, the idea that the rest of the allied advance ground to a halt to accommodate MARKET GARDEN is yet another US myth. Bradley’s subordinate commander Hodges was continuing it advance towards Aachen. Bradley’s other subordinate commander, Patton, had outran his supplies on the 31st August and stopped, and then resumed his advance a few days later, before MARKET GARDEN was even mooted. An eye witness, Alan Moorehead, noted: 'With the aid of three airborne divisions at Grave, Nijmegen and Arnhem. The battle began on September 17th and reached a stalemate eight days latter with the honours standing fairly even: we took two bridges and failed at the third—Arnhem. Arnhem was an incident magnified far beyond its strategic importance by the peculiar and exciting circumstances and poignant tragedy of the stranded parachutists. Actually, only a handful of divisions was involved, the over-all losses were small and apart from the magnificent outburst of courage the battle had no more significance than half a dozen actions that were fought that same winter.' As for Bradley's subordinate commander, Patton, his own offensive towards Metz failed and clocked up casualty figures that were far in excess of MARKET GARDEN. An offensive, that even had it succeeded, would not have gone to nowhere of importance compared to the Ruhr. Patton, had been passed over for army group command, probably because of his inability to control himself when he personally attacked Sicilian peasants and his own soldiers. He seems to have desired personal glory ahead of success for the allied cause, as he noted in his diary before D-Day: . “I fear the war will be over before I get loose". Not, I hope it goes well, or whatever. No, only his personal ambition.
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  58. Total rubbish. Market Garden represented an opportunity to take the war into Germany when the allied advance had been stalled by Eisenhower, at no cost to operations elsewhere and it also offered a chance to hinder V-2 attacks on London. Eisenhower and Bradley did not have a single day of combat between them. Montgomery fought with distinction in the First World War and rose through the command ranks, icluding performing with distinction as a single division commander in the trying circumstances in France in 1940. Your attempted slur is offensive.
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  59.  @carloscolon198  Where is there evidence that Montgomery blamed others?
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  60.  @carloscolon198  'if the operation had been properly backed from its inception, and given the aircraft, ground forces, and administrative resources necessary for the job it would have succeeded in spite of my mistakes' MONTGOMERY.
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  61.  @carloscolon198  What mistakes?
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  62.  @carloscolon198  What negligence?
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  63.  @carloscolon198  Eisenhower was ultimately responsible for its outcome of Market Garden - by then he was both Supreme Commander and land forces Browning himself might have stated that the Operation “ was a bridge to far” ...
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  64.  @carloscolon198  Taking responsibiity for the allied armies went with the job. Along with the cars and the chateau.
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  65. Beevor is a cheap pot boiler writer who bring nothing new to the subjects he writes about. He was in and out of the army in four peacetime years. His crap messages are lapped up by American readers, and on the US lecture circuit.
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  66. 6 minutes. Browning died in 1965. How is he supposede to respond?
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  67. At that time all information purporting to come from the Dutch Underground was routinely disregarded due to the German 'Englandspiel' penetration of the Dutch Underground. Market Garden was no different to any other situation at that time in that respect.
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  68. Tiotal rubbish. Dutch intelligence reports were ignored because of the German 'Englandspiel' penetration of the Dutch underground network. The air plan was devised by the First Allied Airborne Army, led by the US General Brereton. Market Garden comprised three airborne divisions and one Army Corps. It took the allies over 50 miles to the top of the Siegfried Line. How did that set the allies back.
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  69. The planning for MARKET was headed up by the US General Brereton. The photographic evidence is available on line. As a layman, the evidencet hardly seems to be clear to me.
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  70.  @garyrobertson5629  'Yes .... More than you ... ' But I am not American. 'was that BEFORE we saved you from speaking German or WORSE Russian!' It must be before because it has not happened yet. 'my Father at Anzio.' my father was at D-day, Normandy, the Scheldt and the Rhine. So what?
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  71. Big Woody is a liar, and this is why: Read on and use the link... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2obwt4n1G0&lc=UgyXsiASB8pi_JS_WfV4AaABAg.9Afuv3FHaYc9BMmj0JXY2u&feature=emcomments Lead comment: John Cornell 3 weeks ago (as of 31 07 2020) Patton should have kept his mouth shut and concentrated on achieving his task of taking Metz, which had been his objective two weeks before Market Garden and yet still hadn't done it 8 weeks after Market Garden. The 25th reply is the lie: Big Woody 1 week ago (as of 31 07 2020) Das Deutsches Afrika-korps: Siege und Niederlage. By Hanns-Gert von Esebeck, page 188 Returning from North Africa with an inflated ego after the comparatively easy defeat of the German Africa Corps, he considered himself to be the greatest commander ever. Later information has revealed that he inflated the number of German casualties to improve his image. At El Alamein he claimed that there were more German casualties than there were German troops all together on the actual front! This is were Big Woody unwisely took it from: http://ww2f.com/threads/what-went-wrong-with-operation-market-garden.28468/page-5#post-389603 What went wrong with Operation Market Garden? Discussion in 'Western Europe 1943 - 1945' started by tovarisch, Feb 2, 2010. Page 5 of 14 < Prev1←34567→14Next > RAM Member Joined:Dec 11, 2007 Messages:507 Likes Received:9 ... 'Returning from North Africa with an inflated ego after the comparatively easy defeat of the German Africa Corps, he considered himself to be the greatest commander ever. Later information has revealed that he inflated the number of German casualties to improve his image. At El Alamein he claimed that there were more German casualties than there were German troops all together on the actual front!' ... RAM, July 28 2010 ...From another opinion in a hack forum, not from 'Das Deutsches Afrika-korps: Siege und Niederlage. By Hanns-Gert von Esebeck' as Big Woody claimed.
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  72.  @garyrobertson5629  Err... where have I claimed to know something about airborne operations?
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  73.  @stuglenn1112  So what should Eisenhower have done with Bradley for Aachen, Metz, the Hurtgen Forest and the Bulge? Or with Brereton for devising the Market Garden air plan?
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  74. Nick Danger There is no sense in that. XXX Corps were held up for 12 hours while the Son Bridge was rebuilt. They were at Grave in the early morning with a day to get to Arnhem. The hold-up that day was due to Nijmegen City and Nijmegen Bridge being in German hands.
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  75. Anyone else thought of this? Why would they? The US forces would have faced no opposition on Day One.
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  76.  @nickleonarczyk2777  But by that time they would have been in possesion of the Bridge and XXX Corps would have been there a day later.
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  77.  @nickdanger3802  The 17th must have been an easy day for those German troops at the Waal bridge. They had no asaault from US paratrooopers to deal with.
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  78.  @nickdanger3802  By 1800 the Germany had ong since read the whole Market Garden plan, thanks to a US soldier.
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  79.  @nickdanger3802  'The first bridge too far. 1st AB in Sicily, 1943 ' More like the first D-Day. The British doing all the work and the Ameicans scattered far and wide.
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  80.  @nickdanger3802  When XXX Corps arrived at Nijmegen, they rightly expected that the US 82nd had done their job and cleared the town. They had not. The one mile per stuff is meaningless. One of Bradley's subordinates - Patton was making a mile a day at one point when he went he advanced towards Bastogne,
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  81.  @nickdanger3802  Why did you post this?
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  82.  @crusader3012  'wanted to be better than blood and guts Patton' Where is the documented evidence of this? 'Of course other factors ensured a bad result but Montgomery should have been stood down after this appalling waste of life.' So, what should have happened to Bradley for Aachen, Metz and the Hurtgen Forest? 'And not forgetting the punishment inflicted on the Dutch by the Nazis in the aftermath.' Has what relavence?
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  83.  @crusader3012  I have been interested in this subject for 45 years. I have never seen and evidence that Montgomery had any opinion about Montgomery, where can such evidence be? Why would Montgomery have any opinion about Patton? He was higher up in the chain of command than Patton, was in a different army and in September 1944 the two were at opposite ends of the allied Front? Montgomery won in North Africa, Sicily, Normandy, the Northern half of the Bulge and the Rhine. 1944 campaigns, Market Garden and Infatuate liberated nearly 2 milion Dutch people.
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  84. Browning found out that there was a posibility that Panzer forces in the Arnhem area, but the information was inconclusive. Browning would have briefed the divisional commander, Urquhart rather than a battalion commander such as Frost. Neither Urquhart or Frost were ULTRA cleared.
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  85.  @bigpants6121  ARNHEM 1944 THE AIRBORNE BATTLE MARTIN MIDDLEBROOK VIKING 1994 P66-67 'Criticism is usually directed at Browning for ignoring Brian Urquhart's warnings. Yet Browning was faced with an appalling dilemma. He had not received all the intelligence available and he was far from uncaring about the fate of his men; he had threatened to resign over the ill-preparedness of one of the earlier proposed operations. But was a British general to jeopardize this great airborne operation, perhaps the last opportunity of the war, a mainly American operation, for fear of what might happen to British troops? Perhaps Brian Urquhart was wrong. Perhaps the German armour, if present, would not react quickly and the bridge at Arnhem could be held until XXX Corps arrived. Morale among the airborne units would certainly suffer if 'Market' was cancelled. Browning decided that it was too late, that the risks must be taken and that the operation must proceed. Browning's written orders to 1st Airborne, dated 13 September and signed by himself, had contained this paragraph: 'ENEMY INFORMATION The latest Intelligence will be sent to you up to the time of take-off ' But the latest reports were not passed on. General Urquhart may have been told by Browning; his memoirs do not mention this. What is certain is that no official warning of the latest German tank strength reached units, and neither Brereton nor Browning made any attempt to amend the plan to lessen the danger from the Panzers. John Frost says that his battalion would have still been quite happy to carry on with the operation, but could have benefited from a warning by taking more anti-tank weapons and ammunition and possibly leaving such heavy items as mortars behind.'
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  86.  @Billy-je6mq  Harry Dunn, 19, died when his motorbike collided with a car near RAF Croughton in Northamptonshire on 27 August. Mown down by Anne Sacoolas of Fairfax County, Virginia, USA, who has since fled to the USA and has been granted diplomatic immunity by the US government.
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  87.  @Billy-je6mq  Harry Dunn cannot post anywhere, about anything - thanks to an American woman who is being protected by the President of the USA.
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  88.  @Billy-je6mq  In that case you think that the killing of Harry Dunn by an American who is being helped to evade justice by President Trump is boring. This gets posted and posted until Anne Sacoolas faces justice.
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  89.  @steveguild871  Harry Dunn, 19, died when his motorbike collided with a car near RAF Croughton in Northamptonshire on 27 August. Mown down by Anne Sacoolas of Fairfax County, Virginia, USA, who has since fled to the USA and has been granted diplomatic immunity by the US government.
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  90. Steve Guild You may may right. Doubtless you will tell your friends about Harry Dunn, other who read these posts will tell their friends, Big Woody will tell his handler and so on and so on.
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  91. Who cares?
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  92. The US General, Brereton, commander First Allied Airborne Army was ultimately responsible.
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  93. Jerry 2234 At that time all information purporting to come from the Dutch Underground was routinely disregarded due to the German 'Englandspiel' penetration of the Dutch Underground. Market Garden was no different to any other situation at that time in that respect. The Ultra information, as in most other cases, as far from complete: The 1st Para Brigade Intelligence Summary No 1 CLEARLY states that: "..the area might contain 15,000 enemy troops of which perhaps 8,000 would be concentrated in Arnhem. A reported concentration of 10,000 troops SW of Zwolle on 1st September may represent a battle scarred Panzer Division or two reforming" Signed W A Taylor, Capt, IO, 1 Parachute Brigade, dated 13th September 1944. THE GUNS AT LAST LIGHT THE WAR IN WESTERN EUROPE, 1944-1945 Rick Atkinson P260 ‘A SHAEF intelligence summary issued September 16 reported that “the enemy has now suffered , in the West alone, losses in men and equipment that can never be repaired in this war….No force can, then, be built up in the West sufficient for a counteroffensive or even a successful defensive.” German strength facing the 100,000-man XXX Corps directly across the Dutch border was estimated at six infantry battalions backed by twenty armored vehicles and a dozen field guns; scant enemy activity had been detected in the last two days.’ P263 ‘Guessing which Germans would be fought proved vexing beyond all other vexations. Radio traffic showed that Model’s Army Group B headquarters had shifted to Oosterbeek, outside Arnhem. Other intelligence suggested that enemy reinforcements of river and canal defenses, but with troops considered “low category”; some improvised Luftwaffe ground units were apparently so rudimentary that they lacked field kitchens. Ultra decrypt XL9188 in early September revealed that various battered units from Normandy had been ordered to Western Holland to refit, and subsequent intercepts indicated that this gaggle included II SS Panzer Corps. Not until September 15 had the SHAEF high command taken note that the corps’ two divisions, the 9th and 10th SS Panzer, seemed to laagered near Arnhem. Together they had suffered nine thousand casualties at Caen, at Falaise, and in the retreat across France; they had also lost much of their armor, including 120 tanks on August 19 alone. But whether the divisions were still eviscerated , where they were headed, or precisely where they were now located remained opaque. The aerial photographs can be seen on-line, they gave a far from complete picture of German forces in the region. The same information as seen by Eisenhower and Brereton, Commander, First Allied Airborne Army, over whom, Montgomery had no jurisdiction.
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  94. Get Lost. Montgomery won in North Africa, Sicily, Normandy, the northern half of the Bulge, and the Rhine.
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