Comments by "LRRPFco52" (@LRRPFco52) on "Arizona’s Family (3TV / CBS 5) "
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His left-right position relative to JFK isn't the problem. The Edgewood Arsenal Army Lab forensic technicians and engineers could never duplicate Connally's injuries without direct fire for both the chest and wrist, and the projectiles always mushroomed significantly.
The Western Cartridge Company rare 6.5x52mm ammunition was made only in 1954 in 4, one million each lots for a CIA contract sourced through DoD to counter communist forces in some foreign country. It was an obscure chambering for an obscure rifle, not common at any time in the US.
The antimony content of the lead cores in that CIA contract ammunition was unusually low, which made the lead comparatively soft for rifle projectiles, especially FMJs.
CE 399 was not mushroomed and still weighed 158.6gr, only shedding 1.4gr of its original weight.
Connally had multiple fragments in his chest, wrist, and left leg, several of which were removed, while others were left inside him.
The evidence excludes CE 399 from being a possible projectile that caused any of Connally's injuries. The WC knew this and didn't allow the chief ballistician to testify in the final conclusions, instead calling in younger technicians who contradicted their own test findings that had been designed and supervised by the chief ballistician.
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@uyegidgg JFK was already hit as the limo passed behind the street sign. Connally was not hit yet. Listen to Connally's many testimonies from the hospital bed and arranged public clarifications. He described it very well and insisted not only that he was shot after JFK had already been shot, but that the head shot followed immediately after he had been shot.
Also, read the autopsy report where the shot in JFK's back was located at the inferior scapula region, not up high on his neck, and only half a finger could be inserted into it. The young doctors were not allowed to explore JFK's throat like in a normal autopsy to ascertain the wounds other than digital palpation (finger probing).
It simply does not align with the throat shot. If you look at the WC diagrams for the proposed Single Bullet Theory wound path, they show JFK already leaning forward in order to align the Gerald Ford altered shot placement with the throat.
If a shooter was firing from a rear elevated position down into the limo, the back wound can't be lower than the throat wound if they are connected.
This is one of the most basic faults of the SBT, before we even get into its weight, lack of embedded fibers and tissue, lack of major frontal deformation, and its chain of custody gaps.
I have worked with the Secret Service before when I was in the Army's official Presidential Escort in DC. It requires suspension of disbelief that the SS did not conduct a detailed crime scene analysis along with the FBI, complete with each agent and hospital staff to account for the projectiles and fragments.
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@DeanSpence-d9c When ballisticians and forensic technicians at the Edgewood Arsenal in Maryland tested the CIA contract Western Cartridge Company 6.5x52 160gr RNFMJ ammunition on cadavers, human skulls immersed in ordnance gelatin, cadaver and amputated human arms, and goats, they had some very interesting findings.
The ammunition fragmented in the skulls, and mushroomed like hunting bullets in the goat chests and human wrists.
They couldn't duplicate CE 399 no matter what they tried, including tumbling bullet impacts to the goat chests.
So the skull terminal ballistics were somewhat consistent for fragmentation, but Connally's wounds were not.
They had conflicting opinions on how many shots were fired, and this is partially why 3 of the Warren Commission panel members dissented with the WC conclusions, with Congressman Russell even submitting his resignation from the WC. LBJ denied his resignation and coerced him to stay on the WC.
William Sullivan, one of the FBI senior personnel involved in investigating the Kennedy Assassination, was scheduled to testify before the HSCA in 1977 as to why he disagreed with the WC conclusions, but was unfortunately unable to do so.
He was shot in the neck by a State Trooper's son on Nov 9, 1977.
Congressman Hale Boggs, another dissenter, disappeared in a twin-engined Cessna in 1971 while campaigning for another Congressman in Alaska. Their aircraft and bodies were never found.
JFK's doctor, who was present at both Parkland and Bethesda, wanted to testify, but withdrew at the last moment.
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@chrisgreene9963 Edgewood Arsenal ballistics lab studies showed that Connally had to have been shot at least twice by 2 different projectiles, neither of which was CE 399.
Bethesda doctor's report reads that he inserted his finger in JFK's back wound on the inferior region of the scapula (lower portion) and could only get half a finger in.
Gerald Ford admitted to relocating the back wound up higher near Kennedy's neck when he was on the WC.
Even with Ford's tampered diagram, the WC shows JFK leaning forward to align the back GSW with the neck GSW, even though he was sitting fully erect when he was shot in the throat.
Parkland doctors insisted the throat wound was an entrance.
This means that at least 3 separate bullets were necessary to create JFK's injuries, none of which impacted Connally.
Per Edgewood ballistics tests, at least 2 bullets and one fragment (that they removed from his L thigh) created Connally's GSWs, and CE 399 does not match any of the wounds Gov Connally suffered.
From a purely scientific ballistics perspective, that would lean towards 6 bullets minimum having been fired, because we also have James Tague's cheek injury from a fragment, supposedly caused by one a miss that impacted the curb on Elm Street.
JFK:
1. Throat wound entrance, R trachea lacerated
2. Back lower scapula GSW entrance 1.5" in depth, non-perforating
3. R frontal head shot entrance near temple and hairline, 5-7cm exit in posterior occipital region with massive loss of brain and skull tissue (entrance and exit)
Connally:
4. Bullet entrance in R back creating an unusually long, tearing wound, exit on R anterior chest below centerline of the R pectoral muscle, causing a 2" exit and sucking chest wound
5. R distal wrist fracture with entrance and exit, multiple fragments left in the wrist
6. L thigh entrance with fragment present, removed at Parkland
7. James Tague fragment injury to cheek
That's at least 10 gunshot wounds on 3 people.
The proposition that 3 rifle rounds produced these 10 GSWs, a curb strike, a dent in the limo windshield frame, and a hole or crack in the window requires some ballistic and mental gymnastics only conceivable by ignoramuses to this field of research.
That's 13 different impacts from 3 shots fired. You start to see why Russell, Boggs, and Sullivan knew it was all a big fraud.
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@tomvan6008 If you read the WC, they really dance around the fact that nobody saw Oswald coming down the stairs, and both elevators were stuck up on higher floors. Dallas PD officer Marion Baker found Oswald on the 2nd floor, sometime between 1min 15sec and 1min 30sec after the last shot fired.
WC had Marion Baker run through multiple reenactments of his actions that day, starting on his motorcycle, and timed each one.
WC just says the evidence concludes Oswald walked down the stairs with plenty of time for officer Baker to run into him, and moves to the next conclusions.
This is one of many problems I had with the WC when I read it 4 decades ago. The chapters danced around or over-emphasized things while ignoring basic questions.
It's like a fluff piece to give you the impression of professionalism, while lacking in substance in key areas.
For example, where did Oswald purchase CIA contract Western Cartridge Company 6.5x52mm Carcano ammunition from lot 6000? Where are the cartridge boxes?
They do recognize that the paper package observed by Buell Frazier and his sister was much too short to have been the broken down rifle, but just say the Fraziers were mistaken and Oswald somehow carried a 35" long package into the building without any other witnesses.
Frazier's sister said it looked like a bag. Buell Frazier used to work in a shipping center specializing in curtain rods, so the idea that he couldn't visually identify package lengths does not seem logical at all.
WC just brushes past these facts saying Oswald carried in a long paper package.
Then there's the whole problem with zero retention for a disassembled surplus rifle with a cheap scope and mount. It needs to be re-zeroed and confirmed before shooing at anything you intend to hit.
WC says the unzeroed rifle helped Oswald by providing automatic target lead by 5-8". You don't need to lead moving targets that close with a rifle. 40-88yds is instantaneous time of flight for a rifle, even one that slow.
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@paulpo999 Connally's R rib is a lot more dense than the landmarks on the skull where the WC and Parkland doctors saw the entrance and exits.
Edgewood Arsenal ballistics lab could never duplicate Connally's wounds without the projectiles mushrooming and shedding fragments. They had excellent test designs with cadavers, goats, amputated arms, and skulls immersed in ordnance gelatin.
The skull tests all fragmented. The chest and wrist wounds mushroomed and fragmented lightly.
The chief ballistician said Connally had to have been shot twice, once in the back, and once in the wrist. They used Western Cartridge Company ammunition from the exact same lot as the spent cases found on the 6th floor.
That ammunition is extremely rare because it has the lot codes stamped on the case heads, along with the manufacturer code.
That ammunition was made for the CIA in 1954 via a DoD contract to Western Cartridge, in 4 lots of 1 million each. The spent cases deposited on the 6th floor were from the first lot, which was 6000.
Edgewood Arsenal used this same ammunition, which had very soft, ductile lead cores with unusually-low antimony composition.
Testimony from Dr. Joseph R. Dolce, Chief Consultant for the US Army in wound ballistics at the Edgewood Arsenal and Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland. He designed and supervised their tests for the WC, but was not allowed to present the Edgewood Arsenal conclusions, which indicated Connally and Kennedy were shot separately before the fatal head shot.
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@jetcat132 This is a fairly technical subject that requires some degree of education in the field if you are to make any informed observations and statements about it to gain clarity, not confusion. Familiarity with the technical aspects of a subject is imperative for clarity. Unfamiliarity with the technical details is what creates confusion. This is a major problem I have seen on both sides, namely all kinds of erroneous nomenclatures, mechanics, and dynamics that simply are not reality in the field of internal, external, and terminal ballistics, mechanical engineering of firearms, or human anatomy & physiology. I’m not “you guys” and I don’t do gymnastics. I only deal in reality since I have extensive training and experience in all of these fields, both from an academic and hands-on perspective covering decades.
I pretty much stick to the Warren Commission as the best evidence against itself, which screams out at you along the way. I don’t read any assassination researcher books, as the WC is enough to tell you that it is extremely faulty from a scientific perspective.
Reasons why CE 399 can’t be the bullet that translated through Connally’s chest, wrist, and impacted his left thigh are:
1. It weighs too much for the total weight when you add 158.6gr with Connally’s recovered fragments, the fragments from his wrist, and the fragment from his thigh. 160gr - 158.6gr = 1.4gr. I’ve been a metallic cartridge hand-loader for decades. Even the solid copper bullets that did not exist at the time lose at least 1gr of weight when you fire them into ballistics gel.
2. The Western Cartridge Company DoD contract (for the CIA) 6.5x52 Round Nose Full Metal Jacket (RNFMJ) cartridges used especially-soft lead cores with low antimony, so they deformed significantly in all of the Edgewood Arsenal ballistics tests. They simply could not duplicate CE 399 no matter how they tried. Read the studies after having learned the extensive ballistics vocabulary and definitions. Edgewood obtained over 100 rounds of ammunition from the exact same lot (6000) indicated by the lot codes on the spent cases and unspent cartridge in the M38 Carcano Carbine.
3. There were no fibers or human tissue embedded in the nose of CE 399. Every rifle projectile sample I have seen or read details of that has been recovered from a person or animal has tiny amounts of hair, clothing fibers, bone, blood, and tissue embedded in the nose or meplat.
CE 567 and CE 569 were reportedly recovered from the front of the limo. CE 399 was found on the floor at Parkland by an elevator repairman. The difference in condition between CE 567, CE 569, and CE 399 are dramatic. The Edgewood Arsenal tests showed that these types of bullets did fragment when impacting human skulls filled with ordnance gel at velocities consistent with the M38 Carcano at those ranges.
But they also showed dramatic deformation when perforating chest cavities and impacting human cadaver and amputee arms at the wrist. Dr. Dolce designed very well-thought test regimens to demonstrate how the Carcano Carbine performed, to include placing velocity screens between each shoot medium. His conclusion was that Connally’s wrist had to have come from a direct impact from another projectile.
I already am familiar with the Commission Exhibit numbers dating back 40 years from when I first read the 888 Page Summary, then set out to read some of the supporting volumes. It is laden with fraud, strictly from a scientific perspective.
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@mkrawc1 They Laser-scanned all the physical structures, to include the limo and occupants based on multiple films and Dealey Plaza, creating a digital twin environment not subject to human error in drawn diagrams.
The left-right alignment is the least of the Single Bullet Theory's problems. The vertical alignment is the first insurmountable hurdle.
2nd is that the back GSW was not connected with the throat wound, which was still higher even with Gerald Ford's self-admitted manipulation of the autopsy diagram back wound (lower).
3rd is the back wound only was half a finger deep per the autopsy.
4th is the Parkland doctors unanimously asserted that the throat GSW was an entrance.
5th is that Connally's back injury is more like a long tear coming down from a higher angle, destroyed his R 5th rib, and exited with a 2" sucking chest wound.
6th is that during the extensive Edgewood Arsenal studies at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, they could only create Connally's wrist injuries with direct fire.
7th is that no matter what they did, the matching lot 6.5mm 160gr projectiles mushroomed dramatically in their goat thorax and human arm cadaver/amputee ballistics testing.
8th is that all the projectiles fired in the tests shed more weight than CE 399.
9th is that CE 399 has a really disjointed chain of custody from the crime scene to the floor in Parkland, and from within the FBI as well. Its evidence timeline in physical custody of the Bureau goes backwards in time.
10th is the worst, in that Dr Dolce, Chief consultant for the Army Ballistics Lab, was not allowed to present the Arsenal's conclusions to the WC. He said there was no possible way for a single bullet to have created both JFK's and Connally's wounds, and that they were created by 3 separate shots.
This seems to indicate he was unaware of James Tague and the curb, which would require a 4th shot like the original FBI field report concluded before the WC was formed in '64.
Either way, the Single Bullet Theory does not stand on any solid evidence. Just a cursory analysis of the SBT claims and the actual physical evidence rules out the possibility of it. A detailed analysis of the SBT feels like a dystopian horror crime novel.
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@Jerry-oo8hd Walter Cronkite did an interview with LBJ later on, which was censored "for reasons of National Security". You can watch that interview now after it was uncensored, decades after LBJ died. In it, LBJ said he was never fully satisfied that foreign actors weren't involved, but the WC did a thorough job with the investigation and he didn't want to undermine it.
3 of the WC panel members dissented with the conclusions, as did the #3 man in the FBI, Asst Director William Sullivan.
The panel members and staffers who promoted the Single Bullet Theory and WC were rewarded handsomely in their political careers.
Staffer Arlen Specter (who concocted the SBT with help from former CIA Director Allen Dulles and Congressman Gerald Ford), became Senator Arlen Spector.
Congressman Gerald Ford became the only unelected US President in history.
WC panel member and dissenter Congressman Hale Boggs went missing in a plane in 1971 between Juneau and Anchorage, never found.
FBI #3 William Sullivan was shot in the neck in a hunting accident Nov 9, 1977. He became critical of the FBI's illegal domestic spying, burglary, and harassment programs and was one of 6 FBI officials killed in 1977 who were scheduled to testify before the House Select Committee on Assassinations.
The shooter was the 22yr-old son of a State Trooper. He said he thought Asst Director Williams was a deer, was fined $500, and had his hunting license revoked for 10 years.
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@jetcat132 The biggest problems Dallas had with Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig were his refusal to amend his reports about the 7.65 Mauser and his recognition of Oswald in custody as the man he saw get in a station wagon driven by another man.
Roger Craig testified before the Warren Commission about seeing Oswald, and recognizing him in custody. When confronted, Oswald said the car "belonged to the Paines, and don't drag them into this."
The problem here is that other witnesses saw Oswald walk out of another entrance to the TSBD, cross Elm, and disappear in the crowd.
The WC tracking of Oswald asserts that he went to a bus stop, and took the bus back to his boarding room to change jackets and retrieve the revolver.
Roger Craig's testimony fundamentally undermined the WC path for Oswald's travels that day.
Craig was fired 3 years later, then died of a self-inflicted .22 rifle gunshot to the abdomen on May 15, 1975, before he could testify in the Church Committee Hearings investigating massive corruption in the DOJ, FBI, and CIA.
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