Comments by "George Albany" (@Spartan322) on "Jordan B Peterson"
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@jesterfrombeyond1776
"Dude your a fundamentalist"
You can't find truth in reality nor in a single Word of Christ without being a fundamentalist, and there is no concept of objective truth without a fundamental understanding that truth is derived from an objective authority, without a standard, value, and authority to recognize truth, its all opinion. And if you define truth as opinion there is nothing you can communicate for which it represents value to another.
"Look at the Greeks they where pretty much the first civilization that came up with some sort of abstract objective notion of the world"
Plato, Homer, and Aristotle didn't even agree on what defined truth let alone what objective truth actually was, and Socrates never supposed an element of what was truth in what he supposedly said but instead what was not truth and the refutation of untruth is not the same as having objective truth. No the Greeks did not devise an concept of abstract objective truth, none of them were atheists either. They all plead to a paganistic objectivity but they couldn't even agree on what that objectivity was and the same applies to the mathematics and other philosopher as they postulated mere possibilities without a case of knowledge or demonstration. This is because with Christ the development of truth seeking can not exist, it stays as philosophy. Only in the Christian worldview does anyone believe that there is a knowable aspect to truth demonstrated in the natural world, none of the Greek philosophers believed this which is why they never developed anything close to an industrial civilization.
"while having their own religion independent of judeaism."
You don't seem to realize this violates your claim. By having a religion they believe in an objective worldview that is not abstract by definition, now granted in paganism they didn't in fact recognize a shared objective view resulting in a subjective worldview claimed as objective but again it wasn't defined in the abstract.
"Furthermore objective notions can only be approximately objective because every notion of objectivity is nested in a subject"
Proving my point, the perspective of Christ and his followers (as in those who believe in the knowable plan of God proclaimed by Jesus and His disciples) reject this and science exists specifically because this concept was rejected. This is the reason you only see an industrial society form out of the post-Resurrection world of the nations that recognized Christ's authority as head of the nations.
"same goes for you"
No it does not because God defines the objective, not man, I have no capability to even received the objective view without God's allowance and my recognition of this fact tempers my ego and humbles me to know that before it was known God had defined it from the beginning.
"So please be a bit more humble, before you proclaim that you know the "Truth"."
I do not need to humble myself for it was not defined by me nor devised by me, all recognition of what I have done is absent and I do not boast as though I did not receive what I have been gifted to myself, I merely am the messenger of truth, I am humble to my position as merely a servant, a slave, to He who defined and declared truth unto the world. He is the way the truth and the life. (John 14:6) I have no authority given of me for it is not mine but is of the authority of my father in Heaven. If I speak of my own authority then I would speak of my own glory, but as I seek to honor Him who sent me I speak truth and am found without falsehoods. (John 7:18) For why should I say that I have such that I have not received, why do I have that I have not received? Why then should I boast as though I have not received it? (1 Corinthians 4:7) In this I know objective truth for it was defined by He who defined what truth is.
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@twntwrs "lots of things that are simply wrong and/or unethical in the Bible"
Does a historical document need to exclusively represent ethical acts?
That is an irrational, inconsistent standard for historical documentation, it applies to absolutely nothing else. What document of Plato, Homer, Ceasar, Charlemange, or even Hitler and the Nazis or Stalin, Lenin, and Trotsky and the Russian Communists is made exclusively of ethical contents? Should historical documentation only contain ethical acts?
And beyond how do you know what is right and what is wrong? You can't even know what is right or wrong without God for you can't identify what right and wrong is without God's Word, else it is what you decide what is right and wrong and how does apply to anyone objectively and in truth. There is no right and wrong then. What do you have that you have not received? For even your life was granted to you as a gift, you do not own it, why do you boast as though you have not received it? (1 Corinthians 4:7)
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@kayeassy
"That's your perspective"
If we're fighting by opinion then there is nothing you can say to me that is objective. You can't argue for an objective truth unless you recognize a standard for objective truth, without the Bible there is none. You can't criticize by your view of the world, you don't get to steal from God's view of truth and claim to be speaking truth as though its objective and evident by a rejection of truth.
"you need to liberate yourself from the narrow minded linear thinking as Jesus has always wanted."
"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6
"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. I do not receive glory from people. But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?” - John 5:39-47
"The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood." - John 7:18
"Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” After he had said this, he went back outside to the Jews and told them, “I find no guilt in him." - John 18:37-38
"So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” - John 8:31-32
"You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies." - John 8:44
"Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." - John 14:17
You do not know Jesus.
"Without accepting others you can never attain objective truth."
"You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." - Matthew 12:34
Jesus didn't accept everyone and neither accepted everything. He rejected anyone who did not worship Yahweh and who did not recognize the Word for which Moses wrote of.
"For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?" - John 5:46-47
"Because limitations leads to bondage."
Nope.
"But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void." - Luke 16:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:17-20
Jesus explicitly states that the Law established must be followed, not for salvation, but to demonstrate that you are in salvation.
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." - Matthew 7:12-13
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits." - Matthew 7:15-20
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’" - Matthew 7:21-23
"It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave," - Matthew 20:26-27
Jesus was not "open minded" for anything and neither preached liberation from "limitations" but instead spoke to regulation onto the people that they will be compelled to follow Him and despise evil. In Matthew 20 He outright calls us to be servants and slaves for the sake of Him. He rejects many who claim His name and calls them workers of lawlessness. He also tells us that if you do not believe the words of Moses you can not be with Him. Let me repeat once again, you do not know anything about Jesus.
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@jesterfrombeyond1776
"convinced yourself you know to the Truth"
"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6
"The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood." - John 7:18
"maybe not so good for the people around you"
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." - John 3:16
"Talk to heavenly tech-supor an angel can most likely fix your firewall, and hit up big G. he can give you an the new operating system with bias detection function + critical processing power."
"For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do." - Galatians 5:17
"God bless you my friend, you really need it. ;-D"
You're the one that responded making erroneous claims that were unsubstantiated and couldn't actually support anything you said.
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@dco1487 No its not, Jesus wrote the Old Testament as He also wrote the New, God has never changed, they are one in the same, why do you think all the Apostolic Fathers spoke exclusively from the Old Testament in performing Apologetics, (they don't reference any specific statement in the Gospels because they weren't widely spread as even references yet, some weren't even yet written, but they had eyewitness accounts of Jesus, which is what Paul and Peter do reference) I already gave you a historical reference to refutation of this claim. It is an explicitly and logically false claim. The same God that condemned the Canaanites and destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah was the one that died on the Cross, in fact Jesus was there and attests to that fact in the Apostolic Witness of the Gospels. Read John 5, especially verses 40-47 and show me a contradiction. Or how about Ruth being a Moabite yet she is an ancestor of the body of Jesus, Moabites were also a condemned people to Israel and yet God brought in a Moabite woman to be part of His work for the Blood of Salvation. What about Hosea and the Prostitute, once again a sign of God's patient and loving nature to His people, which are those in Christ, or how about Isaiah 53, which is so clear a prophecy of Jesus it is forbidden by the Jewish Rabbis to even read it?
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@dco1487
"there's an entire book that was translated then copied and translated and copied between several languages and revisions."
Then you don't know jack about Biblical history, this is not how any of it worked, there's only ever been three translations that everyone has copied from in history, one of them we absolutely and perfectly know for a perfect fact hasn't changed since before the 1st century, that being the Tanak, or Hebrew Old Testatment. (in fact we have records that go back to the 3rd century BC which are of Isaiah sharing the exact same text that we have now)
The three texts that have been copied in history were the Septuagint, the Vulgate, and the Tanak. (the Torah, the Nevi'im, and the Ketuvim, the original Hebrew Old Testatment) These have, throughout all of history, been the only three texts that everyone has copied and translated from, not from language to language, its only been translated from one of these known consistent languages to local languages only. Hell the Vulgate itself is just a translation of the Septuagint itself, (all Koine Greek speakers would also know Latin very well and so the translation can still be checked to this day) so you could argue there are only two translations everyone uses, the only reason to qualify the third is because the Catholic Church ignored the Septuagint entirely (after about 700 or so) until the 1600s, where you saw Reformed writers relearning it from the East. However it was preserved in the East. Either way the Old Testament text of the Tanak has always been in reference because nobody ever lost the capacity to read Hebrew, only the West lost the capacity to read Koine Greek for a time. (the East did not lose any of these capacities and maintained the Septuagint until they came back West with the Fall of the Byzantines)
This aside there are many copies of these text both found in the original language and the local languages, the differences of the original language copies is what we historians call a variant, that includes a typo or a false copy, now think, how many copies were made? Its uncountable, the lowest end requires hundreds of thousands of copies to have been made, in one of those original languages mind you, so Latin, Koine Greek, or Hebrew. Only these texts were ever used for Biblical copying as "original" and were not copied for the sake theology, all of them were also extremely well preserved. The result of this is that we have a nigh uncountable amount of copies with only slight typos in one place or another, never changing the semantic meaning of the text and even further communicating the same message over and over and over again. This was no "copy of a translation of a copy of a translation of a copy of a translation" it was only "a copy of the original text which is (maybe) a copy of the original text" and people did this for over thousand years voluntarily and independently of each other, what kind of fool would copy a translation when he has access to the original text for which he could translate or get a translator to translate himself? That's stupid. This is why the variants are so important, it demonstrates the reliability that among the variants we verifiably know the Scriptures were perfectly preserved, for scouring through all these variants we can know exactly what it said. You do not get that of any document in Antiquity, even into the Early Medieval period, you don't find almost anything comparable to the reliability of the Scriptures, the variants ensure the truth of what it says.
"There is no possible way to know the original texts and all apologetic arguments are circular."
Wrong, first off variants prove the reliability of the Bible, secondly Paul's epistles were for 1800 years used as the basis for rational argumentation, most rationality and logic you experience is in some regard also contributed to by Paul's epistles, especially Romans.
"None of it matters just do what Jesus said to do and do good things."
John 5 is quite clear, if you can't believe trust in the words that Mose wrote, (including Genesis 1-10) then you can't believe in Jesus. So even Jesus called this type of thinking out as false, so saith God. There are also cases like Matthew 5:17-20. Again you don't understand basic theology, nor basic church history, nor basic Biblical history, I have to wonder how you can have an assurance of Scripture when you reject the first elements of Scripture that speaks its authority.
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@dco1487
"But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." - 2 Timothy 3:14-17
Paul is pretty clear that its not. You know the sacred writings refer to the Tanak right? They didn't have anything of a New Testament yet and Paul never calls his writings sacred, so what "sacred writings" could he be referring to? A Jew would only call one collection of writings sacred at this time, so is Paul uninspired then? Is he liar? If you cannot trust what Paul has wrote, how can you trust Mark, Matthew, Luke, or John? And yet Augustine, Clement of Rome, Athanasius, and Basil all refer to Paul as though he were inspired and speaking just these words. So I wonder who is right. Would you call Paul a liar, then you cannot have Jesus.
"How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?” - John 5:44-47
So is Jesus also a liar?
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:17-20
Once again, was Jesus a liar? Jesus held a higher view or Scripture then you clearly, as did Paul, not to mention Luke, James, Peter, and both Johns.
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@dco1487 Works do not save, my assurances are not in works.
"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment." - James 2:8-13
My assurances however are foremost in faith.
"But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law." - Romans 3:21-31
If having right faith, only then can I do good works, which justifies me then among men, but before God I would still be convicted without faith, my endeavors do not relate to man, but to God, and so my works will be in accordance to faith before man.
"But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?" - James 2:18-20
In so too my works, which do not justify me before the Lord nor have any salvation, they demonstrate my faith.
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits." - Matthew 7:15-20
It is by this we know one of the faith, for the fruits speak the heart. So what fruits then am I called to perform? For some it be feeding the homeless, taking care of the sick, volunteering to teach children, to counsel the unwise and the poor. In my way I study and speak truth, my works are in the words I speak and the theology I proclaim, to fight the ways of the world in all its wickedness to proclaim truth, I am not gifted with a capability to volunteer in many other ways, neither will I glorify myself and boast as to say "I have done more then thee" for who can boast?
"I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another. For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?" - 1 Corinthians 4:6-7
So with this, I am not held to a standard to prove myself, if I am not a Christian, measure what I say by the Scriptures, if I speak so falsely by interpretation in the Holy Spirit, then I speak falsely, but such must be shown by the Holy Spirit, not just rejected, but my words must be addressed by the Holy Spirit. So lay this thought out, can you, independent of any doctrine, read the Scriptures by guidance of the Holy Spirit alone to condemn what I have said as false? I have done such this through the Scriptures, if any of that I say violates the Scriptures, by what measure is this found?
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Government provided safety nets are unnecessary and foolish, any time you give power for the government to encroach upon a field it will expand until it encompasses said field, it will always grow and the only manner to prevent that is to never open that door. They will write regulations and laws alongside taxation for which the result will always be government manipulation of the market whether it be overt or subvert. Even in Scandinavia this is still the case, they follow western economic models (socialist models specifically) and they heavily regulate the medical field which does prevent competition. Just because the governments there are less corrupt (which if you correlate with a "smaller state" instead of a "small population" you don't understand history) then the Anglo governments (New Zealand's population is the only one smaller then Sweden's) does not constitute a validation of the position. After all Sweden's government still betrayed its native population starting with the immigrant crisis and ever since it has been a mixed bag to live in it. You can't have a free market if you believe in socialist policies, else you are an operating socialist economy. Market socialism is still an appropriate name for Scandinavia, and its anti-liberty and anti-free market.
You don't need the government to provide any safety nets, that's not its job, that's the job of the church and community, which will always do it cheaper, more efficiently, and more effectively without regulation or through the use of force against anyone.
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Jordon Peterson I understand isn't all that invested in theological understanding and rational, but dear God do I despise the catholic doctrine here again, it is so damn easy to refute with a teleological argumentation that its not even funny. I should not be able to make a teleological argument that undermines your whole doctrine and faith. Baron so poorly misunderstands the nature of Christ and the theological doctrines of the fathers of the faith, to actually make a claim that an aspect of the Bible functions on the principle of allegory is quite literal blasphemy of the text so says Christ and His Word. (I shouldn't have to even mention Paul, nor anyone else but every single Biblical church father including Paul has already addressed this)
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." - Galatians 1:6-9
"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change." - James 1:17
"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." - Romans 12:2
"For I testify unto everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, and from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." - Revelation 22:18-19
The Bible is quite clear, especially in the NT as demonstrated, though it speaks even in the OT, not to rely upon man's interpretation of the Word nor change the Word as its spoken. The Word is breathed out from God, there is nothing that should not be taken as it was written. Saying that the Bible enables a non-literal interpretation that refers to a long period in a "theological interpreted" scope is well beyond twisting of the text. I'm fine with Jordon not understanding this nor making much note of it in the least from lack of theological understanding and doctrine, but Catholics don't get this excuse, yet their theology is so childish and weak its ridiculous.
I'd like to hear Jordon Peterson speak with Dr. James White or Jeff Durbin, I'd actually pay money to see that happen to be honest, be nice to see a theologically sound mind, most specifically a Calvinist doctrine, being discussed with Jordon who I in the least appreciate for his psychological takes. I also really do wonder how Jordon would actually interact with Calvinist evangelical.
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