Comments by "George Albany" (@Spartan322) on "Upper Echelon"
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@ScavCitizen
"But just to remove all doubt: psssst. I was being facetious."
And I wasn't. I'm just being honest, I don't care about sarcasm.
"You know what else they stay very silent about? Unicorns, and pixies, and fairy dust."
Foremost logical fallacy implication, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. What you can use to refute mystical things is other forms of reason, but resorting to degrading arguments like this are not valid and that's a deflection anyway. In fact its red herring fallacy what you just did. And adrenachrome conspiracies have been proven to exist many times throughout history, even many occultist behaviors resort to them in some regard. That includes many secret societies, even the Nazis had members of their occultic groups who did that, most of them were never killed and neither were they charged in any manner, many actually moved to the US, some with US government backing. Though I would definitely say its more then likely it was already here if the evidence is to be believed given many secret societies, especially the satanic/lucifierian ones tend to heavily rely on either human sacrifice and/or blood consumption.
"Government agencies don't usually waste a lot of time talking about things that aren't real."
Its because your anthropology is wrong for why you don't want to believe people would do that. But did you know many kings and queens are documented by historians doing that, some cases it was rumor that wasn't ever disproven, but we do know of many cases of rulers who also partook in it.
"Just how many "occultist governments" do you think there are in the world?"
Any government that doesn't rely on a faith that destroys occultism, for which only Christianity and the ancient Hebrews ever tried to do, will always resort to practicing occultism out of pragmatism, we already know that the CIA and FBI have resorted to mysticism and using mystics to achieve specific goals. Its a "whatever sticks" mentality and "any advantage is a good thing" justification.
"You gotta pull yourself out of the conspiracy hole, brother."
First off secret attempts to commit illegal and immoral acts are a conspiracy, if you don't believe conspiracies exist I'd ask you to learn what a "conspiracy to commit murder" charge is.
Also Satan is a conspiracy against God, it is illogical therefore that any Christian could deny that Satan's children would follow in step of his conspiracy and mimic his structures.
"That nonsense is only fed to you in order to keep you distracted from all of the (much more boring and mundane) ways they are actually robbing you blind."
I actually speak about both openly and specifically. I know they rob us with the federal reserve, income tax, and even with the prison system itself. I speak on all of it. You don't get to fallacious make assumptions about who I am, what I think, how I think, or anything of the like just because you can't think of more then two things at a time. I am not you.
"It's called Perception Management... and your perception seems quite thoroughly managed."
Well I speak against every level of government clearly, specifically, and in explicit detail, there is no managed perception, you just fallaciously assumed a stupid idea on someone because you're a slave to the philosophy of man. Someone tells you something you don't understand and instead of considering it logically, being capable to argue against it, you follow it like child to his parent. Managed perception isn't even applicable on the individual level, it was a social engineering classification and its fallacious anyway, it makes a massive amount of assumptions without reason nor proof. But perceptions I carry upon my character are however not enslaved to the foolish ways of men, blowing so fickle in the wind, but instead I have every thought taken captive to God and thus I can see clearly for all regards and speak clearly about them all. There is not one thing I wish to overthrow and destroy the modern government over, unless that one thing is the opposition to God. In either case I also say by justice most members of the government would be justly executed for the violation of their charge granted by God. But that's not gonna happen any time soon so I leave it to pointing out all their demonic evil and stir up discontent for the sake of flushing and purging it out.
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@ScavCitizen
"Since you like pointing out fallacies so much, you should look up Special Pleading."
You made no factual allegations nor evidence, you made claims but there's no evidence behind anything you said, also how the hell does anything I say have anything to do with special pleading and yet "you made no argument", that's an inherent contradiction. You can't accuse someone of making a fallacious argument that inherently requires his opposition (that being you, special pleading needs at least two opposing arguments) to make an argument. Are you trying to be a hypocrite?
"And didn't, because I made no argument."
You need to learn what an argument is then:
"You know what else they stay very silent about? Unicorns, and pixies, and fairy dust."
"You gotta pull yourself out of the conspiracy hole, brother."
"Good luck in your magical quest against the demons, I guess. Just don't harm any flesh and blood humans on your delusional crusade."
"(And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we must stop teaching religion to kids.)"
Do you not understand these are all inherent arguments? Fallacious, but they all revolve around similar or related points to try and refute what I've said which were arguments, a counter-argument is still an argument even if its foolish, you hate religion and anything associated with religion, it should be stopped according to you. That is a point and you claim to support that argument by strawman, ad hominem, and deflection, not to mention you make an assumption of my position in any number of regards for which there is no manner to imply such.
"There's simply no conversation we can have when I'm talking about the reality we can both see,"
No you're not. You never once resorted to refuting what I said by rational and reasonable argumentation.
"and you're talking about a war between good and evil in the spirit realm, which exists only in your imagination (and the imagination of others with the same delusion)."
And your support for that claim is what exactly? You do realize reiterating a point I made as though its ridiculous is not an argument against my point, you're supposed to, you know, actually refute the point. You just committed appeal to ridicule fallacy.
"I have no interest in debating your thoughts on fictional characters like Satan, or demons, or supposedly occultist governments."
Despite the fact you literally did so by using fallacy after fallacy (even attempting appeal to fallacy fallacy despite the fact your claim of fallacy was inherently invalid anyway) to make my arguments appear stupid and ridiculous not on the merits of said arguments but by undermining the intelligence of everyone who reads what I have said to you and suggesting I'm irrational. You're quite a rude and insulting individual especially to then claim you "made no argument" and "have no interest in debating" when that's literally been all you're doing to try and demonstrate me as a fool so as not to believe what I say. You could not be more of a liar if you had tried. I was at least hoping for something dissension so I could actually respond with reasonableness, unfortunate that you refused such.
"This is what's called an impasse."
You know had you been reasonable, it wouldn't have been, the blame is on you and we could've had a constructive discussion but you instead want to boost your ego, downplay it, and try to undermine me all at once. Thank God I don't care and don't take offense, for I know what is in your heart, that the hatred you have shown of me is not of me but of He who went before me and since I come of Him you have hated me. Had I spoken mistruth you could've shown me such, but you did not. Instead I spoke all I say not by the authority of myself for which I do not speak glory to myself, but by the authority of He who sent me and thus I speak the glory of He who sent me for which thus there be no falsehood in me. But you speak by your own authority and thus to your own glory and thus you fight opinion against truth.
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@ScavCitizen
"And then George went Gish Galloping off into the sunset..."
You do realize rejecting to argue with someone because of their beliefs is relying on ad hominem. Its inherently unreasonable, irrational, illogical, and downright malicious. You do know a fallacy is a refutation to argue reasonably against the oppositions argument. For which you didn't, you literally appealed to ridicule and strawmanned me in order to undermine what I've said without having the reason upon what I have said. You never presented a refutation nor a counter-point of anything I said. Refutation requires a unique response to the statement of claims for which addresses what's been said. You failed to even consider what I've said.
"Like 90% of what you've said is practically the definition of Special Pleading. You expect me to provide rock solid evidence for my arguments, but you can't provide any for yours."
"Special pleading is an informal fallacy wherein one cites something as an exception to a general or universal principle, without justifying the special exception. It is the application of a double standard."
You never referenced a general principle nor evidence of a general principle, and there was no evidence presented for which to present an exception to a general principle. And that aside I neither presented an exception to a general principle and neither did I present a double standard. By what quote have I presented such? And where is your presentation of a general principle for which I also cited an exception too? Where even is the general principle?
"You expect me to provide rock solid evidence for my arguments, but you can't provide any for yours."
Burdens not on me because I didn't make a claim about my opposition for which evidence would be relevant to the point. And neither did I deflect from the argument at hand. If you had refuted what I said or actually asked for a demonstration of things when we were on topic, then I would've presented to them, but now that you've detracted the argument I'm not gonna be compliant with you to demonstrate anything regarding a point you don't show any regard for. And I'm not gonna present evidence on a subject for which I know you're inherently biased and blind to, one for which you have no understanding and have an inherent hatred for, for it would not help you, and that aside I don't make arguments for religion, least of all by evidence for reason can not save you and reason is not the foundation of truth, its a subject to it. To expect a subject to have authority over its foundation would be least of all foolish.
"Look man. I know you're desperate to drag someone down into the mud and "debate me bro" on your terms."
I'm not the one resorting to fallacies.
"Seems like you have nothing better to do. I just lost interest the moment you revealed how much of a complete whackjob you are."
If that were true you wouldn't have responded afterwards, so you're not only a manipulator and hypocrite, but an outright liar.
"Yes, I made arguments BEFORE you revealed that."
And once again, you lied and now you're backtracking realizing you can't reasonably support your claim.
"After you showed your true colors, my job was essentially done."
Except your position is neither inherent nor correct. Not to mention you didn't answer any of the questions I asked of you and neither have you actually responded to what I've said. You made claims, but none of them by reason.
"I have no illusions of getting through to you on any level, but at least now other people can see what's really lying under the surface of most conspiracy theories these days."
Yet you continue to come back. You lack self-control if you say one thing and do the exact opposite. You come back for reason, and I know why but you refuse to acknowledge. If you truly did not care you wouldn't have written this up. "I do not care about what you said" as a response to what I've said is inherently a contradiction for if you didn't care you wouldn't respond, you'd ignore my responses and would feel no need to continue responding.
"For which thus thou hast therefore servethd thy purpose. Amen."
Even though you didn't present a point, relied on fallacies, claimed I made a fallacy I can't possibly have made, and all while lacking a reasonable capacity to argue or support any of your points.
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@ScavCitizen
"Gallop, gallop, gallop..."
Adults don't talk like this. You need to learn to grow up and speak like an adult, stop speaking like a child who believes they are an intellectual. Adults can argue and discuss with those they vehemently disagree with, that's a large sign of adult mentality, but a child refuses to deal with anyone they get particular with.
"Speaking of strawman, I didn't say I don't care about what you said. I said I don't care about trying to convince you of anything. That ship sailed and sunk long ago."
Contradiction, you clearly care because you demonstrate a lack of capacity to not respond. If you didn't care you wouldn't even need self-control to stay away, least you could've feigned apathy if you didn't respond, but you made yourself the fool by responding with this. Also saying you don't care to convince me is intentionally trying to play the argument as though you have superiority. Which you don't, I shouldn't have to tell you this.
"You're not the only person who might potentially read this exchange. When I was much younger, lurking on exchanges like this was very informative. Just trying to pay it forward."
Your responses are vapid and worthless to any reader because you literally just keep repeating the same mantra acting superior, in order for value to be gleamed by an interaction you need to actually contribute. I'm still contributing by demonstrating how vapid and hollow your strategy to undermine your opposition is, but you provide nothing because you retreat yet refuse to let anyone get the final word because you are a child. If you had left the conversation off in a manner where you I couldn't respond with a contribution, you'd get the last word but because you insist upon getting the last word and refuse to humble yourself like the narcissist you are. You don't care about anyone else, you don't get to hide behind a manipulative facade as though you have the moral high ground especially when you contribute nothing and give up as soon as someone makes a claim you can't refute.
"As for what you've said, I've barely skimmed it."
I can tell with your response you haven't done more then take sections out and conjure your own conceptions of who and what I am based on speculation.
"So in that sense, I care about what you're saying - I just don't care to subject myself to all of it."
You can't do both, either you care and thus wish to intervene, in this case intervening, or you don't in which case you'd not have responded.
"Same goes for white supremacists, homophobes, and bigots of all stripes."
This is how you ensure evil proliferates, its a desire to kill and murder, its hatred and bigotry inherently. Those who do not see every man no matter their heart as that which is equal to you is naught but a murderer. When they die and you refused to address them, their death is also on your hands as is every single piece of murder, that being the hatred of the man, they distributed to the world. Had you refuted them you would not be held in contempt for evil acts because you would've stood in place for their sake and all who would be victimized by their hatred in Spirit and act. But because you refuse to stand against them by truth and boldness, you are equal to them in all metrics for you ensured their proliferation. You are responsible for the bloodguilt of their condemnation and will be condemned for that responsibility. You are indistinguishably just as wicked as them. But I would speak to all those would hate and seek death of even my enemies, for those even who had committed the worst acts by hand I do not wish them to the damnation of Hell I would go out of my way to save them, even if they had done such that I should desire vengeance. For I know just as you are, I would be just like you, just like them, wicked and depraved, hopeless and unrepentant. But it is because I know where I would be that I would seek their salvation whatever the cost. That does not mean that those commit evil heinous acts do not avoid execution, evil acts worth the price of life such as murder and rape should be payed in blood, but to the end of their life I will always follow God's salvation for them if I ever could speak it to them, to their dying breath.
"(Note: this is NOT me calling you a bigot. But the fact that you value "god's law" over human life makes you equally destructive.)"
You really shouldn't assume that just because I see someone talk about bigotry that I assume that I'm being accused, I wait for the directed attack before I would consider such things. (and context still being relevant may dissuade that thought still) But you really don't understand "God's Law" if you think I value the law more then life. For God's Law is to regard the value of human life second only to God Himself, for which there is no manner for which we can put God at risk which means there is no need to put anyone but yourself at risk in order to follow God's Law.
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love." - 1 Corinthians 13
The most vital attribute being love, not of man's love, but of God's love, a love that seeks good, chastised wrongdoing, humbles itself and does not boast, that seeks for the good of and the preservation of its charge. It is patient and does not insist on its way, seeking only for the good of those it stands for, speaks for truth.
When it says does not insist in its own way, it is not saying it does not believe a righteous path, but it does not force one to follow the righteous path but prays and hopes for adherence, to speak a correction that is received for the sake of all who hear it. It does not rejoice in wrongdoing.
Do you know what that means? For it means God is not having any man wish death on anyone, for any who wish death on another are murderers discerning themselves from God further, he who hates another is likewise a murderer discerning himself from righteousness. You had assumed who I was and what I believed not by what I have said nor by what you could know of me but what you wanted me to be so that you could despise me. But I have done nothing wrong and said nothing of the sort to expect such a claim. For God's and His Law is what gives human life value and thus it is by the law we preserve human life for the sake of goodness. Those who offend the law thus are punished by the law, not because the law was violated, but because human life for which the law speaks of had been violated. For those who be against me I wish them not to die, I do not wish either that they'd have to die, but I know it is punishment that they die for sin. I also know that by the preservation of life there are that which retracts that preservation only when the preservation was inherently violated. For I so love life that those who would violate it must die, but those who do not such thing should receive no such thing. And of all of them, I seek to preach repentance to them, not for my sake, for it does not give me value to do such but because God wishes and commands of me to do such for which I have volunteered myself by His election to do.
"I'm sure it all makes perfect sense in your mind, and you'll chalk this little encounter up in the "W" column."
I don't look at any of this as a "W", I do not approach arguments that way and neither do I approach any form of preaching that way. Its foremost not mine to receive, and neither is it my purpose to win. My ambition is for your sake and the sake of those who see what I have to say. It does not benefit me either way. All I have received is meant to be given.
"That's fine. Any reasonable person will just see what I see: the rambling diatribes of an unhinged lunatic."
Appeal to ridicule.
"My first two replies to you were the only ones where I thought we might actually have something to discuss. Everything after that is just me giving you opportunities to show your full crazy. And you're doing a great job!"
Running around in circles doesn't demonstrate a point.
"Is that ad hominem? If this was a debate, it would be."
Fallacies don't apply to debates, they apply to arguments, an argument can be made without a debate.
"But this is not a debate (no matter how much you desperately want it to be). It's a demonstration, and a public service announcement."
That's quite a "holier than thou" attitude right there to call your claims and statements "public service announcements", that's arrogant and narcissistic. And you demonstrated nothing, you made claims and statements, but you didn't support them at all and gave up when you hit the slightest bit of resistance, even refusing to answer basic questions.
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