Comments by "Cinderball" (@cinderball1135) on "Brexit Party comes out on top in EU elections - ahead of Labour and Conservatives" video.

If we're clutching at straws, how would you describe voting for Nigel Farage? This is a man who's openly espoused privatising the NHS, instating a new tax system that would make poor people pay the same as investment bankers, and also doesn't believe climate change is real (all of which I can easily provide citations for). This is a man under investigation for fraud, and who never turned up to committees where he was paid handsomely to work. No wonder the Brexit messiah didn't want to post a manifesto.
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Tommy Robinson (real name Stephen Yaxley Lennon) got 2% of the vote, and was thoroughly rejected by the people of Manchester - a fairly liberal, urban area, chock full of the very minorities he has spent his whole life persecuting. Perhaps he just wasn't very well suited to the area he campaigned in?
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Mr Anonymous Because nothing you told me is "fact". It's all conjecture, opinion and fearmongering - with a healthy dash of Islamophobia to help the toxic stew go down.
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This was not a General Election however, and comparing the results in that way is unbelievably deceptive, in a number of different ways. 1) Euro elections turnout is always low compared to General Elections - and this one was no exception. This amplifies the power of Conservative voices, since Conservative voters (who are often older and retired) will be able to turn out, even when the rest of the population stays home. 2) Euro elections use a different electoral system, which makes it far safer to vote as your heart leads you - whereas in General Elections, tactical voting makes far more sense, since the two main parties have such secure control over most seats. Many Brexit Party voters would likely revert to the Tories were it a General Election, just to prevent Labour from getting in. 3) In the case of this specific election, it comes at a very opportune moment for Farage and his goons. The Brexit Party has only just been established, and has no real history or manifesto to be measured by. Enthusiasm for it is at an all-time high - and will likely never be any higher. Any future elections will leave them scrambling to hold onto the votes they already have, rather than adding to their pile.
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The minority of people who voted for the Brexit party, you mean?
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Quick heads-up. Brexit Party "gained" 36% in a typical British seat down in the Southwest, right? When you compare that against the Conservative and the UKIP losses they've actually shed about 10% of the pro-Brexit vote. I'm not saying that Brexit didn't do well in these elections - but the statistics suggest to me, at least, that the Brexit Party has already begun to recede from its high water mark. They're going to have to work hard to keep what they just gained.
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intempify I think we're talking across purposes. I agree with everything you said, but I don't see how it answers my posts. :)
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intempify I removed quotation marks. The substance of my post is unchanged.
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Han Lockhart That's certainly the Brexit Party narrative - but in fact, the real noblemen are the former Conservative classes - the Neoliberals who have been progressively losing touch with reality for years, meanwhile subjecting us to endless wars, endless austerity, endless cuts, endless suffering. The media are anything but the privileged class - violence against journalists has been rising sharply over the last couple of years, and press freedoms are being curtailed across the globe. Wake up.
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intempify You seem to be arguing two mutually exclusive positions at once. That the Brexit Party is gaining and is in the majority - and that the Remainers, aggregated, are also in the majority. Please shove the "Reality Doesn't Care How You Feel" nonsense. It doesn't make you cool - it just makes you sound like a Ben Shapiro tribute act. My point is simply this - the Brexit Party is a minority among the country, even if, right now, it is the largest single minority. It needs to actually bring other people alongside it if it means to lead us into the future. It requires the consent of everybody to do so. And it's not going to gain that consent by bullying, lecturing and hectoring.
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intempify I think it's fairly safe to count Labour as a cautious Remain party - reality is though that neither they nor the Conservatives are especially relevant to the discussion. And as you say, I think trying to translate EU Election results into a General Election is a fool's game, because the rules will be so very different.
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Han Lockhart And you sound like a red-pilled goose-stepping "ironic" holocaust denying basement dwelling culture wars anti-Sharia Judeo-Christian-Values incel fascist shitposter, and the whole world can hear your keyboard warrior typing fingers hammering away for miles around. My goodness this childish name-calling is jolly good fun - I'm beginning to see why you like it so much!
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Han Lockhart I care about equality for men and for women, and I care about people's welfare. Since when was that a bad thing?
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Han Lockhart I edited my comment because I (rightly) predicted you'd try to twist the word to mean something that it's not. You would do yourself an immense favour if you would try listening to what the other person says, rather than projecting your twisted meaning onto it. And the "your kind" comment? It makes you sound like some stereotypical Ork from a fantasy RPG setting, right before the party of heroes goes to town on it. You're ridiculous.
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Han Lockhart I think you have succeeded in one thing: driving this whole conversation way off-topic. There's clearly no civil discussion to be had here, so why don't I just leave you with a sack of potatoes that you can preach to, and I'll go do something more fun, like watching paint dry, or cleaning out my bathroom with a toothbrush.
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@silveriorebelo8495 Whatever that means.
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So how do you describe going around pointing the finger at muslim communities and calling them rapists and murderers? How do you describe starting a movement to "defend" England against such "invaders" - an "English Defence League" if you will?
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 @JMEDIAUK You need help.
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@Starterino Kripperino ... where in any of my posts did I suggest that UKIP was a pro-EU party?
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@Kopp203 I'm sorry, but you're factually wrong. The Labour Party overwhelmingly supports Remain, and has since the Referendum. The only way you would get the opposite impression is if you cherrypick the data and only look at specific constituencies in the North, specifically former Industrial areas. And yes, there has been a shift towards a remain. A "tsunami"? No. But there didn't need to be. The Brexit majority was wafer thin at its inception, and its advocates have done precious little to persuade Remainers like me that we were wrong about them.
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@Kopp203 You are really trying very hard to twist the facts. Firstly, the majority of Labour voters are remain supporters. Secondly, the Greens and Lib Dems made it abundantly clear that they wanted to remain in the EU, and people polled on the subject said that, if they were a Remain supporter, they were much more likely to go with one of those two parties. Like it or not, the Brexit Party accomplished nothing more than poaching some Conservatives and amalgamating it with the UKIP vote. Had the Remain vote not been so horrendously split, they would've been the second largest party, not the first.
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@kingslickster9841 No denial that any of what I said is true, I notice.
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@Thirdfish As any GCSE politics student would know, a large part of a party's manifesto is not just the promises they make but the manner in which they intend to keep them. Without a manifesto, you have no means of holding the Brexit Party accountable - there's no measure against which you can compare them and say whether they delivered what they promised or not. And I think knowing his positions on a wide range of topics is deeply relevant, since Brexit is not the only issue of the day. Like it or not, these politicians are going to have a part in shaping EU policy for the next few years to come, and you have no idea what their position on issues like welfare or the environment will be!
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Mr Anonymous I don't see any reason to explain myself to you. You've already decided that I'm a "traitor", presumably to be taken out and shot, so I think we're well past the point of rational discourse.
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@Thirdfish When have I been patronising? And since when was a single vote suddenly binding for all time, sacred beyond all other measure? The majority of the country doesn't want Brexit - and certainly the vast majority doesn't want us to crash out. The referendum result should've been the start of a national conversation - but instead, you are trying to bulldoze this hardline policy through without even consulting those of us who voted the other way. And let us not forget, leaving aside the manifold polls that show Remain far ahead of Leave since the referendum - that result was a narrow majority - 52% to 48%. You need us on-side if you're going to take the country forwards, and you have done nothing but hector, bully, threaten and preach. You haven't done anything to change our minds - and meanwhile, a lot of your former voters have slunk out the back door in shame and disgust. Your idea of compromise, seemingly, is to hold the other person at the end of a sword until they agree with you. That's not how Democracy is supposed to work - and that's not even touching on the sheer uncertainty about what Brexit people even wanted in the first place, the dishonesty of the campaign that led to Leave winning the referendum, and the sheer impossibility of transacting such a deal without inflicting crippling damage on the governance and the economy of our island nation. The very integrity of the Union is at stake, and all you can do is yell slogans and thump your chests. Finally, on the subject of the Brexit Party's lack of a manifesto - Nigel Farage says that he's going to let the Party membership decide that. It sounds like a democratic pledge, but it's really an abdication of responsibility. He doesn't have any real positions, and what he's actually doing is demonstrating his willingness to promise anything, irrespective of his ability to deliver it. In that, he's no different than any other corrupt, scumbag politician.
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@Thirdfish Well, fundamentally, you seem to be operating under the illusion that the majority is with you, and it's not. Perhaps at some point you'll wake up and smell the roses and be willing to have a civil conversation, but until then, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
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