Comments by "jeppen" (@jesan733) on "How war in Ukraine will end | Vejas Liulevicius and Lex Fridman" video.

  1. Serbia acted to ethnically cleanse Kosovo, and the consequences took precedence over the fixed border rule. However, no country annexed Kosovo, it wasn't an imperial war of conquest like the Ukraine war is, so Kosovo independence was also at a less forbidden level of change. Of course, Russian propaganda does its very best to pretend that Ukraine tried something similar in its Eastern parts, but truth and falsehood actually matters.
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  2. You wouldn't listen to the answer anyway. If you did, you would already have figured it out.
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  3.  @00Grouse  I am dismissive, yes. Pretty much everybody knows the secession (not annexation) of Kosovo was forced by Serbian atrocities and ethnic cleansing. Russia tries to pretend it had to intervene for similar reasons. If you don't know all this, then I'm pretty sure you'll resist learning it. Prove me wrong.
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  4.  @landro6619  it was a defensive war to stop ethnic cleansing of Kosovo.
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  5. It's more like imperial wars of expansion are disallowed.
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  6.  @logosao88  it's far more legitimate for a democracy to try to flip a dictatorship than for a dictatorship to try to flip a democracy.
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  7.  @logosao88  why? Because democracy is better. We should strive to move from worse to better and resist moves from better to worse.
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  8.  @nebojsa1976  how many layers of whataboutism can you create? Listen, the Kosovo secession was motivated by Serbian atrocities. Doesn't matter what other atrocities you can point to that didn't lead to secessation.
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  9. ​ @realitycheck1086  yeah, that's some examples of how Russia is pretending it had cause to intervene. It didn't. There are no bans on language use. The Odessa fire was not ethnic cleansing. However the ethnic cleansing of Kosovo was real and large-scale. E.g. nearly 40% of all residential houses in Kosovo were heavily damaged or completely destroyed by the end of the war, and the reason is overwhelmingly that Serb forces wanted to drive people away.
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  10. Palestine wasn't a country.
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  11.  @markward3981  has the US annexed part of Sudan or part of Yugoslavia?
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  12.  @pavel4freedom  that's just Russian propaganda.
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  13.  @logosao88  are you saying there are cultures where people don't want to be able to speak freely and don't want to be able to choose their representatives and influence governance? Which cultures are those?
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  14.  @maxinabo  control and recognition is two different things. By and large, we won't allow e.g. international trade with Crimea, nor tourism to Crimea, during the illegal occupation. This may be the case for 10, 50, 100 years or more. Tibet hasn't been a recognized country, and Palestine is now recognized by 75% of UN members but haven't acquired UN membership yet, and what territory it should have is unclear. It will probably need to negotiate and agree to peace and borders with Israel for it to be accepted as a member state.
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  15.  @picaso1509  make a real argument or shut up.
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  16.  @roadrunner4412  russian bot commenting on every video on international law: "Bwaaah, what about Kosovo?".
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  17.  @victoriadedicova  that makes zero sense. Investors don't throw good money after bad.
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  18.  @HussKhartoum  makes sense, sarcasm was the most charitable interpretation of what he said.
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  19.  @onogrirwin  then you have zero understanding of how Russian propaganda works.
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  20.  @onogrirwin  that attempt at logic falls flat. Russian propaganda is de facto, and is well known to be, a firehose of falsehood.
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  21.  @maximturcan1722  there's no point of providing refutations to antivaxxers who complains about "mainstream". You want to be fringe loons.
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  22.  @maximturcan1722  dude, if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. It did work, it was delayed by a year for testing and whether measures to ensure people took it were too strong or not has no bearing on its efficacy.
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  23.  @maximturcan1722  I'm very useful? Do you know what the KGB said about guys like you? "Useful i...". You're governed by Rssian prpaganda and post truth punditry, but you think you're free. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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  24.  @maximturcan1722  hmm, very useful? Do you know the term that the KGB had about people believing it? People being governed by Rssian prpaganda and post truth punditry aren't free.
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  25.  @eddievangundy4510  you mean when Sweden and Finland were forcibly annexed into NATO after a long war of attrition against those countries?
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  26.  @eddievangundy4510  no, it's not.
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  27. Turkey's occupation of Cyprus isn't internationally recognized, so the border change hasn't really happened.
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  28.  @Kavala76  yes, but since it's illegal, it might be temporary.
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  29.  @abutomtom117  Jordan was also created, which is a 3x larger nation. for the palestinians, and the small nation of Israel for the jews. So there was plenty regard.
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  30.  @realitycheck1086  ah, so what do you guess?
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  31. Please consider not being evil.
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  32. No, they weren't.
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  33.  @andrewgrandfield7214  to stop a genocide, not to expand an empire.
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  34.  @eddievangundy4510  it has been taboo, and that's why it has only happened in extremely few cases where there were even greater taboos broken beforehand (like the ethnic cleansing of Kosovo).
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  35.  @eddievangundy4510  "Pushing NATO to the border of Russia- especially in the Ukraine- is a kind of change of borders." No, it's not. "Ukraine armed to the teeth, etc." That did not happen. The western powers refused to arm Ukraine properly to not provoke Russia. But this had the exact opposite effect, the weakness of Ukraine and the west provoked Russia into action.
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  36.  @andrewgrandfield7214  there was no genocide in the Donbass by Ukraine. There is now, though, conducted by Russia.
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  37.  @hydraxc2478  very large numbers of high-ranking Trump staffers tell pretty much the same type of stories, indicating that he's unfit for office. It's completely unprecedented. Is it a conspiracy? I think not. He simply is unfit for office.
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  38. Countries may break up due to civil war. Ukraine ain't that, here Russia is invading in a war of imperial expansion.
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  39.  @maxinabo  afaik, Israel, Turkey and China haven't annexed territories of other recognized states. Please give examples if you think they did.
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  40.  @maxinabo  Turkish occupation of Cyprus is regarded as illegal in international law, so it hasn't set a precedent where territorial expansions by force from other established countries is viewed as ok. AFAIK Palestine and Tibet aren't recognized countries. The question here is whether the international community is going to say to Russia: "Ok, you took this territory by force from Ukraine, a UN member country, and now we recognize that territory as part of Russia." This would break post-WW2 international order. Turkey has occupied a part of Cyprus, but the international community maintains, to this day, that this occupation is illegal. That is because of the post-WW2 international order.
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  41.  @maxinabo  a lack of recognition is more important to deter a slide back to the age of warring and expanding empires. As long as it is diplomatically and financially costly for countries to maintain illegal occupations, fewer countries will try more occupations, which strongly reduces the number of wars.
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  42.  @maxinabo  how old are you, who write like a child? Of course trade restrictions can be circumvented, at a cost. Even North Korea can get stuff in. Everybody knows that. But it's costly to setup shell companies and extra middlemen.
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  43.  @iiiooo3803  it wasn't until 2008 that Kosovo declared independence and the United States recognized Kosovo as an independent state. It wasn't much of a precedent. The peacekeeping force was motivated by Serbia's atrocities and ethnic cleansing, and Kosovo wasn't annexed by an expansionist empire. Nothing like Russia's expansionist war against Ukraine.
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  44.  @puzzled012  yes, Ukraine is a democracy. E.g. Zelensky won against a real competitor incumbent, and power was peacefully transferred to him. Has that ever happened in Russia?
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  45.  @puzzled012  "it means they should blame EVERYONE in said democracy for genocide!" Feel free.
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  46.  @puzzled012  "ah yes, democratic genocide of Native Americans comes to mind..." Ok, so what's your point?
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  47.  @tyrentyren  so USA needs to provide welfare services and such to allies like Japan because it has bases there, and is thereby an occupier? I simply can't take that seriously.
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  48.  @nesa6582  NATO provided peacekeeping forces on the ground after Serbia agreed to a peace plan. International criminal courts have established that there was pretty extreme ethnic cleansing, so the evidence is in. Denying it makes no sense.
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  49.  @reqontra  there was ethnic cleansing and some massacre before as well, but yes this accelerated greatly by Serbia after NATO started the campaign. Mass killings, expulsions, rapes, lootings and destruction.
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  50.  @yellowwasprakija2869  funny, like a flerfer trying to shame a geologist.
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  51.  @tyrentyren  in Kosovo? Can you prove that the multinational peacekeeping force KFOR didn't bother itself with that?
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  52.  @tyrentyren  if I look at liveuamap, nothing is colored with a key that says "occupied by the US". The US has small contingents of forces in Syria, just supporting the local administrations. The government-controlled areas of Syria includes Iranian and Russian forces. Does that mean Iran and Russia are occupiers that needs to do law enforcement in local prison camps?
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