Comments by "jeppen" (@jesan733) on "Anders Puck Nielsen"
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@jabezhane the US has provided approximately $44 billion in military assistance since February 24, 2022. This is over 654 days, giving an average of just 25 billion per year. As you know, the US defense budget is $800 billion. Thus spending 25 billion on Ukraine is extreme value for money, and it's just 0.11% of GDP. Any US president in post-WW2 history, probably even Trump, would do the same, because it's simply a slam-dunk from both a moral and geopolitical perspective. Furthermore, the spending is in equipment that will be replaced by US manufacturing, which is strengthening a too-weak US military industrial base while providing well-paying jobs in the US.
Considering money clearly isn't the issue, what is? That you feel loyalty to this "movement" you're talking about? That you've said it's about money so many times that you can't back down?
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For once I don't agree, Anders. First of all, in a very-high-risk environment such as the Ukraine war, the 2030 perspective is worth next to nothing. Think of it as a discount rate of 20%-ish, and a mundane expected return 7 years from now. 0.8^7 = 0.21. Very little value!
Secondly and more importantly, F16s could be important for next summer's front line combat. Sure, no real close air support can be had by either side. BUT, the question is which country that will be able to, in a stand-off way, shoot down enemy aircraft and anti-air defenses across the front line. This in turn will determine which country that can use long-range anti-armor missiles from rotary and fixed wing aircraft, and which can lobby JDAMs (or the Russian version, FAB) across the front line onto enemy positions. Currently this very limited air dominance belongs to Russia. It would be both militarily and psychologically important if the scales tipped to Russia!
I could be pursuaded that a few dozen of F16s won't tip the scales for Ukraine, for example if the Russian fighters are better at standoff attrition through e.g. its long range air-to-air R-37 missile. But then I think THAT should be argued (if it can even be determined until tried in practice), and then perhaps there should be a high focus on doing something about it. One option then would be to add Swedish Gripen airframes with Meteor integration. I'm not prepared to just throw up my arms and cede this limited air dominance to Russia for this entire war.
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@runethorsen8423 you wrote a long and (at least partly) serious reply, so I'm going to do that as well. Hope you'll seriously consider my arguments.
The US exports goods and services for around $3 trillion and its military spending is a mere $0.8 trillion. The US doesn't export violence, it exports security. Because of the alliance with the US, security consuming countries like South Korea, Germany and Japan, and many more, can have vastly lower military spending than they would otherwise need, and they don't need their own nukes. With this lower spending, all risks and temptations for war are reduced by a lot, and that's a big reason why the world has enjoyed relative peace since WW2.
Also, since the fall of the Soviet Union, despite the "war on terror" and the rise of China, US military spending has roughly halved and the force posture in Europe was drawn down to VERY low levels. We really believed in eternal peace and that Russia would behave well. Germany demilitarized and consciously made itself dependent on Russian gas to prove its good intentions and willingness to trade instead of struggle.
The global security order is not the "US empire", it's the basic rule that we don't change borders anymore, and especially we don't change them to expand our territories. The reason is that the UN founders saw that this was the driving force behind WW1 and WW2. (Now you're going to say "Kosovo", and that exception has some merit, but the US didn't annex it, and the genocide that it was saved from was real.) Russia is waging an expansionist war and that's exactly what we've successfully disallowed for 75 years.
"Unnecessary wars you started"? Well, they're probably fewer than you think. But I don't claim perfection or purity. I'm claiming that the global security order, and NATO, and US presence overall are stabilizing forces.
Russia do interfere in US elections, and in elections in most democracies to undermine, weaken and increase polarization and distrust.
Russia was determined to either annex Ukraine (most probably) or make it a vassal state like Belarus. We know this from Russian force deployments and instructions to units. You're right that Russia's 150k deployment toward Kiev was too little for an invasion against a prepared and determined defender, but Russia thought bribed officials, chock and awe effects, assassination squads, air superiority and other technical superiority would make the Ukrainian defense collapse and its government would flee or get assassinated. It also made various logistics mistakes and had some bad luck in e.g. the assault on Hostomel. And Zelensky said "I need ammo, not a ride" and the rest is history.
Of course Zelensky is going to have elections. Remember, they want to go into the EU, and you can't do that as a dictatorship. Of course they may postpone elections during war, but so did the UK during WW2.
The Russian propaganda that has it that people (including women, old men and kids) are kidnapped in Ukraine to go to the front is just that, Russian propaganda. But lots of Luhansk/Donetsk military age men have now been wasted on the front lines, along with minorities and convicts.
You're right that NATO is currently protecting members from Russian aggression and that it's a pity that Ukraine didn't have time to join because it was the only thing that could've prevented Russia's aggression. The west did everything to not provoke Russia, including not giving Ukraine decent weaponry, but Putin just saw that as weakness and as a go-ahead. Perhaps you're not aware of Putin's demands to not attack: Basically a roll-back of NATO to 1992. Part of Russia's plan with this war was to make NATO disintegrate, but it did the opposite. Russia will not take on NATO immediately, obviously, it'll wait for Trump/Ramaswami types that are truly isolationist, and then they will poke NATO, threaten with nukes and see if it works and the US backs off.
Letting Ukraine have referendums in every oblast to decide what to belong to is not according to the international security order, which is based on fixed borders. No part of any country can do that, and e.g. Catalonia couldn't break out of Spain. If Russia wants to change this, it should first show the way by letting every Russian province vote on independence at any time. Also, it's unreasonable to first occupy, ethnically cleanse and subject to propaganda and intimidation a province and then force a referendum.
I didn't manage to create this "forever war". Russia did. It's the Russian Empire expanding. This war would stop if Russia went back to its internationally recognized borders. It could have spent all the war money on immigration, just telling the Ukrainians: "Anyone who wants to move to Russia and become a Russian citizen, we'll welcome you and give you a great start here." It's not like Russia lacks space.
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@andzzz2 "Two differences are they are doing in at a time they judge their opponents to be at breaking point and are encircling the defenders instead of themselves."
The main difference I see is in culture. From what I hear, the Russian military command really, really doesn't value its storm troopers, while Ukraine values its front-line soldiers. This produces predictable results. Ukraine presses carefully where it finds good opportunities and withdraws when necessary. Russia just presses regardless.
"I haven't seen massive Russian war cemeteries or the military-aged violently abducted off the streets in Russia."
Russia seems to have a policy of hiding deaths in multiple ways, including not recovering them. Russian propaganda also features vids of Ukrainian arrests that they simply claim are mobilization events with no evidence. Some people accept that, thinking that since they've seen video, whatever was claimed about the video is true.
"I have heard Western experts, otherwise trustworthy, say the average age of the Ukrainian army is 43."
Wouldn't it be the case that in a high-morale environment that lots of old men would enlist, especially in rear supporting positions? I'm 49 and I would definitely help if my country was attacked. I wouldn't be the best choice for storm/infantry duty, but I could do a lot of other things that'd be useful.
"pictures and video of both women and very old men on the Ukraininian lines would support that."
If you happen to watch the wrong channels, you'd get fed with visuals of such volunteers, and you'd believe something very rare is common fare, wouldn't you? So are you sure you really have support for the conclusion? For a 1 million man army, how many cherry-picked images of old men and women would be needed to establish a good sense of the actual proportions?
"The idea of the Russians conserving their forces is supported by their numbers increasing without mass mobilisation."
No, not really. They just need to add more than 30k per month and then their numbers increase without conserving their forces.
"Their strategy of not doing stupid shit after their initial blunders."
Again, the meat waves in Avdiivka are real. It's not a blunder, it may or may not be stupid, but it gives horribly negative attrition.
"making tactical withdrawals like in Kherson and Kharkiv"
Kharkiv wasn't a tactical withdrawal, it was a rout after Russia being outplayed and surprised. It took a very long time for them to withdraw from Kherson, and it was a major defeat considering they want Kherson and Odessa.
"As I said, when they are on the offensive they tend to outflank rather than dig themselves into a salient."
Well, or the outflanking consists of two surrounded salients and Ukrainian drones come at each pincher from three sides.
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@ByZHellas "Ukraine is at a disadvantage in every type of weapon and munition and manpower on the frontline"
Can you prove that in any way?
"it's industrial might and numerical superiority which wins wars."
So why did the US exit e.g. Vietnam?
"the graphs (maybe not over winter, but the months before that have been increasing in Russia's favor) have been in Russia's favor as well."
Not enough to be very impressive, and now Ru has clear problems (see e.g. Pokrovsk) and is seemingly losing steam.
"but gradually as one side is whittled away (and that can only be Ukraine here, they don't have anywhere near the resources or munition production that Russia does)"
This is not clear. Ru is fighting ineffectively and is losing far more men and other resources than Ukr.
"the lines become harder and harder to hold until it all comes crashing down"
This is merely your guess. If Ukr had a huge problem, I guess they'd lower the mobilization age from 25.
"this downward trend of manpower, morale, equipment, and all else continues, they will collapse eventually, far faster than Russia will."
Again, this is not clear. You're making statements based on pro-Ru info bubble contents.
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@ByZHellas the FABs are perhaps Ru's only major advantage. Ukraine does have JDAM but can rarely use them because of standoff ru air-to-air missiles that Ukraine currently cannot counter.
The assessment of 12-15x disparity in artillery is quite false. It has dropped to 2x lately, but Ukr has better accuracy and range, and Ukr artillery is thus far more lethal. NATO doctrine isn't based on "lightning strikes", but rather on accurate strikes and air superiority. Thus it's not expecting to need as much munitions.
Also Ukr produces millions of drones each year. Ru had a brief advantage in fibre optic drones, but that's gone now. And the drones heavily advantages the defender. Ru soldiers aren't saying that it's slowed down in Pokrovsk due to more Ukr soldiers, but rather due to drones and robotic warfare. The storm troopers very rarely come as far as meeting an ukr soldier to shoot at.
I see no basis for the claim that Ru has adapted more to the war of attrition. Ukr is using it, and Ru's hunger for territory, to its advantage. What pro-Ru people refuse to see is that Ru has very unfavorable attrition ratio. You convince each other that Ru still has this 10x artillery advantage that was true in the summer of 2022, and that this must mean Ukr loses more men. It's ridiculous.
That front-line soldiers always want more resources including more men is not strange. However, there is a grim logic behind not adding more men: If you have less people on the front lines, density is lower and then each enemy fab or artillery strike will cause less deaths on average. For as long as the Ru advances can be kept really slow and you can attrit most attackers using drones, this low manpower allocation optimizes the attrition ratio. They could double the manpower, but then they'd double their losses while not doing much difference to Ru losses (because the total daily recruitment of Ru attackers are kindof dealt with as it stands anyway).
As I said, the real paradox is claiming Ukr has a huge manpower issue in an existential war and is thus close to collapse, yet Ukr has exempted seven age cohorts that are normally used by militaries all over the world. It doesn't make sense. If the front lines were at the risk of collapse due to too few men, then they'd add two more cohorts (lower to 23) or something like that. And they'd do it at least 6 months before that, because they're not stupid. So no, there's no imminent frontline collapse.
I'm sure you don't think you are in a pro-Ru bubble, but you are.
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The only countries that have contributed more than €1 billion in military aid to Ukraine until October 31 last year were United States, Germany, United Kingdom, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Canada, Poland, Netherlands, Czechia, Norway. These countries plus Ukraine have a combined manufacturing output of 4.3 TUSD (World Bank stats 2021). Russia, Iran and Belarus have a combined 0.33 TUSD. So the Alliance has a manufacturing output roughly 13 times that of the Horde.
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