Comments by "Adam Bainbridge" (@AdamMGTF) on "Drachinifel" channel.

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  6. Just a note. And I beg of you arm chair Admiral's: please! Remember to look back, and not forward. In a way all this makes sense as a stratagy for the Japanese to me. Consider their recent history. They fought the Russians. Won a major fleet action after winning a smaller fleet action/land skirmish (blockade) - they won the WAR They fought the Chinese and won a fleet action as well as battles of (relatively) limited scope. They won the WAR. How and why should fighting the USA be any different? We assume with the benefit of 2020 (literally!) Hindsight. That Japan knew this was a new type of total war. That America would fight until Japanese was a language spoken only in hell. That they would never give up. Never surrender. Whatever the case may be. From the Japanese POV, well why would America be any different? Their historical precident showed that once you beat a enemy on a decisive field. You win the war. America didn't invade Spain after taking the Philippines. They won some battles. Won the war. Moved on. Ww2 was very different. But nobody knew that in 1938! Though drachs video is (as ever) incredibly informative and I've enjoyed learning more (who doesn't!?). The temptation here is to use what resulted from the application of this doctrine to decide if the planners were wrong or not. That's fine... to a point. But we should not and must not use the historical end result to question whether or not the doctrine was a *sound concept for its time*. That's crucial. It made sense to the best thinkers of a nations generation. Just because they were proved to be wrong in certain circumstance later. Does not diminish the historical value of the entire area of study. The end of my point. Never judge with the benefit of hindsight. It may be "obvious" that xyz was silly to us, isnt it funny lol. But looking at history that way is a folly.
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  47. Chandler white. I don't think you should be claiming the men in service in the USN/USA/USAAC were bored or apathetic on December 7th. They knew war was coming. Nobody had allusions. In fact war had come and was soon to enter it's 3rd year. The attack was a surprise attack. By definition it was not expected in the way it happened. Why it was a surprise will be debated for decades if not centuries to come. But it was not due to apethy or lazyness. The same Americans who volunteered for the eagle squadron to fight in 1939/40. Were the same Americans who played cat and mouse in the Atlantic in 1940. The same Americans who went to Canada in1940 to enlist to help fight. The same Americans who knew in 1941 that war was coming and wanted to be prepared and so joined the navy, army and enlisted in air training programs. And the same Americans who joined up on December 8th and every day after. You yanks have a lot to be proud of. It's so so sad that seemingly most Americans now and going back 50+ years (I've read a lot of history books, some published as early as 48)... Have a habit of seeing PH as a day that separated black from white. It may be a day that will live in infamy. But in reality it was just another battle. A short one that was fought bravely. It had a big impact politically and in a theatre strstigic sense in the short term. But it was only a tiny part of a huge war. Thinking Americans before this battle were any different to thoes after is a poor way to think of thoes Americans who were to fight and die before December 41.
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  57. There were mistakes made. But your comments are very easy to make in hindsight. For example, the lack off AA. Where would you have taken guns and ammunition away from? To put on x or y ship? Remember, this isn't a computer game. You can't just churn out infinite numbers of weapons. There is a finite amount of everything that can be made. As a result I'm sure you would agree that you have to spread out your weapons and try and focus on where you hope the greatest threat is. The RAF failing the RN? I don't think so. The channel dash may have been a fiasco. But the RAF didn't fail the RN. They may have failed. But they weren't acting in support of the RN. They were in a defence of the nation role and of course were acting as recon against a sortee (which was expected to be into the Atlantic, not that it mattered on the night in question). Communication/coordination was actually a strong suit for the British Armed forces. Helped by the global empires communication links and by the streamlining of the 20s and the lead up to war. An obvious example of this on a local level would be the Dowding system. A theatre example would be that which Cunningham was so fortunate to have in the Mediterranean. Finally. It's important to remember that at this point. It wasn't a holy writ of war that ships had to have air cover. It is now. And it is now precisely [b]because[/b] things like the force z sinking happened. Had aircraft sunk ships? Yes of course. But it wasn't expected that capital ships would be live bait in open ocean without air cover. If anything the fighting in the med had proved that to be true. You may disagree. But I think that if you consider the situation as it happened. Your interpretation of the events is incorrect
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  65. Sadly this comment doesn't shock me. The more I engage with history online, the more and more I've become frustrated. I'm not frustrated by Americans (having visited many countries. It's one of the few where literally everyone was happy to see you, talk to you and just generally 'be nice'). But I am frustrated A: By the general very poor understanding Americans have about the rest of the world and it's history. B: the general assumption (if not core belief) that all world history is American history. C: the increasing trend upwards which suggests history is learnt from computer games and films and D: most worryingly. That when anyone from an expert, to a well red amateur tries to help educate, or to try and explain a point of view from the rest of the world, or point out inaccuracy. The response is not "thanks, I didn't know that. I'd like to learn more", it's an immediate defensive response or just a fall back on core beliefs (wether true or not). Interestingly. The op mentioned that world history classes weren't very good. If I said that regarding my education* then my friends who were into history would A: generally launch into a tirade against Westminster. Because we are English. But B: we would talk about things we wish we knew. Where as the posters below, are instantly focused on the political aspect of what's right to teach about the history of America. The heavy irony being. If history was taught in the USA the way it is here. You'd realise that as sad as some aspects of Americas history is. It's nothing new in human history. *The fact that world history and American history is taught as separate subjects, kind of proves my point. I was taught history at school. My nieces and nephews are taught history. Not 'english history' and. 'world history'. Of course there is a bias towards teaching from the English point of view. I mean the nepolionic wars are taught from the point of view of the French. But it's still taught as a whole. Even areas where the uk wasn't involved. P.s. a good example of the sort of US centralised view of the world, is seen in this video. The chap drach is talking to is fantastic. I'm going to find more of his videos now. But. And this is a small thing, but something I've noticed before. He keeps on calling the American civil war. 'The civil war'. Why?!
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  96. Just a note. And I beg of you arm chair Admiral's: please! Remember to look back, and not forward. In a way all this makes sense as a stratagy for the Japanese to me. Consider their recent history. They fought the Russians. Won a major fleet action after winning a smaller fleet action/land skirmish (blockade) - they won the WAR They fought the Chinese and won a fleet action as well as battles of (relatively) limited scope. They won the WAR. How and why should fighting the USA be any different? We assume with the benefit of 2020 (literally!) Hindsight. That Japan knew this was a new type of total war. That America would fight until Japanese was a language spoken only in hell. That they would never give up. Never surrender. Whatever the case may be. From the Japanese POV, well why would America be any different? Their historical precident showed that once you beat a enemy on a decisive field. You win the war. America didn't invade Spain after taking the Philippines. They won some battles. Won the war. Moved on. Ww2 was very different. But nobody knew that in 1938! Though drachs video is (as ever) incredibly informative and I've enjoyed learning more (who doesn't!?). The temptation here is to use what resulted from the application of this doctrine to decide if the planners were wrong or not. That's fine... to a point. But we should not and must not use the historical end result to question whether or not the doctrine was a *sound concept for its time*. That's crucial. It made sense to the best thinkers of a nations generation. Just because they were proved to be wrong in certain circumstance later. Does not diminish the historical value of the entire area of study. The end of my point. Never judge with the benefit of hindsight. It may be "obvious" that xyz was silly to us, isnt it funny lol. But looking at history that way is a folly.
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  107. Ā @sarjim4381Ā  thanks for this little nugget. I'm in the process of re-watching all Drachs videos again. Because... There is no because. Anyway (bare with me. There's a point here somewhere). While doing so, I'm also reading comments. Something I rarely do on YouTube (I'm an oddball these days. I don't have social media. Short of a FB account I use only for messenger). At 32 years old my phone's an annoyance. So I'm an oddity there. Right! My point. Yes there is one. Honest. Your little tidbits of information in the comments of various videos are absolutely excellent. I'd consider myself a bit of a history nerd. And you blow me away with some of the "forgotten" stories your sharing. So I'd, very much like to thank you. And...... I Just wonder how good it'd be for Drach' to do a special video where he pulls some of the best 'shared histories' from the comments... Something I'll be asking him in his next 'tagged Q&A' (I don't know how to tag him in this!). I know the poor chap has a to-do list that's never ending. But still, I dare say a few of us could do the leg work to help him out. ....side note.... Stories like this really do show how commited the US was to the conflict prior to Pearl Harbor. Something many people really would do better to understand. I'm English and it does irk me somewhat when people start prattleing on about the Americans joining WW2 after "we" had been fighting for over 2 years. Roosevelt* really was the Ace in the hand of every man, woman and child who were committed to battling Nazism. End of. *And the brave US servicemen who followed him of course.
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  111. Bk Jeong again, that’s all hindsight. The RN had the same attitude all military’s tend to have in war at the time. Hope for the best. Plan for and expect the worse. The war had hardly gone well for the allies at the start. As for big gun ships being obsolete. No, they were not. I’m not a ā€œbattle ships are cool so they ruleā€ person. But there was no indication in the early war that the big gun battle ship and its 700 year reign was over. There had been successes of air power. And of submarines just like at the start of ww1 when the Germans sank 3 armoured cruisers. But in ww1 the threats to big gun ships had been acknowledged, designed around and beaten, more so in the interbellum as the belief was that asdic was more capable than it was. Your not thinking like a person who’s on the spot at the time. It’s 1939-42. You know that for 700 years the surface, gun warship has been king. You have seen the disruption that surface raiders have caused. You’ve seen the attempts to bomb capital ships which are in dock, with high level and other land based bombers fail. You have multiple theatres to worry about and the RN capital fleet is stretched thin, especially in the med. The horror of a tirpiz plus a couple of sharnhorsts being able to base from France and hit a convoy that’s escorted by a couple of town class and some destroyers keeps you up at night. It’d be like pq17 but x1000. But you know you can remove such a forced base of operations and repair with a special forces strike. You know with no dock to support such ships, they are basically a mission kill. Your battleships can go where needed most. Like the med where they are needed, to support landing operations in Sicily, torch etc. It’s a no brained.......... your not thinking ā€œwell them there airoplanes have done rather well in torpedoing a few ships in Italy and one hit the Bismarck with an lucky shot. Seems we best scrap the surface fleet chaps. Just build destroyers and subs and aircraft carriers..... such a person would be locked up. Even though it seems rather reasonable from a 2020 perspective....... there is one lesson I have tried to teach my history students time and again. Stop looking at what happened and consider the mind of their person who made the decision. What happened after is a result only of that person(or persons) knowledge and experience. The great minds of the time we’re drawing on centuries of history. Decades of experience and using the latest theory........ but none coupe see the ā€œfutureā€ as we can. Because it is our past....... if you can’t get your mind in such a mindset BK. I wish I could explain what I mean better (internet and typing isn’t good for such things)
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  134. Ā @mwt3579Ā  I'm not sure I can agree with your premise. Your saying that the most intelligent and experienced military thinkers in Japan KNEW that they had come up with a doctrine that was bound to fail? That makes no sense at all. In 1905 Russia was considered a world power. Yes the Crimea didn't go so well. But look who they were up against. Yes their economy was backwards compared to west European nations. But their military was large and well regarded. The fact that the Japanese won against Russia upset the world view of well, the world. It elevated them to great power status. Being on the winning side since the start of ww1 didn't hurt. As for America. I don't understand the 8th grade thing. But I know that's American. And your view is very American centric. The American civil war was just that. A civil war. Yes it was observed from a military point of view (on a technical level). But that was about it. The only other way it effected other countries was economically and as with any other civil war. The rest of the world adapted and carried on. If you look at America from the Japanese point of view. They were very much beatable. America from the outside was a country recently divided (your civil war). It had made lots of money from ww1 but entered late. This was due to a public who didn't want war. The 1920s saw economic collapse on a horrible scale. Military spending was pitiful. If you forget what we know now. If you don't consider things from an American point of view, but from the point of view of Japan. America was weak financially and morally. They'd avoid war if at all possible and were definitely not ready for war. In 1905 Russia was almost certainly a more daunting adversary than America was in the 1930s. Thankfully, you had a savvy president and the country used it's natural resources well. As a result we can look back with hindsight and think "good god, were the Japanese mad". But that's not how you study history.
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  181. Ā @bkjeong4302Ā  I can't agree that it's a ww2 battleship problem. Unless you mean ones built during the war. I could agree that for the war in the Pacific once the Americans got into the fight they were a strategic failure. I base this on the Americans getting stuck in in mid 42. With decisive battles in 43. By 44 when the battle fleet was resurfacing (no pun intended). They were as you say strategically obsolete. However that can't be applied as a sweeping statement because the RN, MN, and KM were in the fight from day one (to three) in 1939, and the RM were in the fight not far behind but also had to be factored into deployments even before the Italians began hostilities. The battle fleets in 39-41 were the prime strategic assets. I would say even in 42 and at times later in the med. Which I am convinced was the most important theatre of the European war. The battle of the Atlantic gets all the attention at sea, the battle of Britain in the air and Barbarossa on land. But had the RNs battle fleet been wiped out and the RM given free reign in the med. Then Africa, the middle East oil and all of Europe west of the Urals was there for the axis to take. We've gone a little off topic lol. Point being. I totally agree the Iowa's were a waste of resources. Naturally that's why the last 2 were cancelled. Here is a thought. HMS Ark Royal was scrapped. I don't even think there was any sort of fuss made to preserve her. She carried a proud name. Had just had a refit so wasn't about to fall apart and she had much more effect on the history of the UK than any Iowa's. So were the Iowa's kept just because they could be? Or was it because they could make money as tourist attractions šŸ¤”
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  196.  @bkjeong4302  I'm sorry probably fluffed what I was trying to say... You make a point about strategic nonsense. But Japan made that mistake. It took on the preeminent naval power for the last 3+ centuries and a country with only a few colonies and a lot of industrial slack. That was a stratagem that certainly in hindsight is about as sensible as playing russian roulette, but then telling everyone else you get he first 5 out of 6 goes. Again though that's with hindsight. I can understand that Japan looked at the USA as a nearly failed economy (great depression) which had an obsession with isolationism and whos political leaders were war shy (inspite of Japan seeing the last 25 years of history and going "they made war and made untold riches. They must be dumb not to want that again). As for the empire of great Britain. They worried about war debt so sold their future fleet for a treaty that screwed Japan. They lost their biggest ally and had to attack their fleet (France obviously). And the Germans had them reeling with a forlorn hope that America would save them (the UK was fighting alone...playing for time.... And it was running out). From a strategic sense. I can totally see how the Japanese decision to attack and get the resources they needed made total sense..yes with hindsight we know it didn't work. But arguing on a YouTube history channel that Japan was silly, wrong, should have known better to not do xyz I just don't understand. Hence my comments As for arguing battleships were a silly idea. Again. Nobody knew so until the war in the Pacific ran half it's course. Which took a blink in the eye of the history of a battleline deciding the fate of nations..and was fraction of the time it took to politically decide to, economically plan for and then logistically commit to building the most advanced pieces of technology on the planet. Had the royal navy done so in 1910 then Jutland would be something else. Had the union done so when planning monitor. The us civil war could have lasted another 6 months or a year. Had Stalin put his generals to work in 34-39 instead of to death Germany could have spent the cold war united under a red banner. It's all a silly waste of hindsight and what if. Yamato, Iowa, Nelson, Bismarck, littorio. All made sense when ordered. Saying "they should have'. Is just a waste of time that could be better spent learning more about history. Isn't that why we are here? I say all this after a week of nights I may be tired but I mean my comments in a friendly way. I remember your questions on the very first dry docks. You may not remember my replies 🤣
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  268. Ā @robertf3479Ā  I agree that in war you have to consider the side of caution. Especially when friendly lives can be spared by using material might*. However your falling into a way of thinking that seems common in the modern world of computer games and internet information. The reality of the time we are studying was not one of ship Vs ship or keeping your forces ready in nearly controlled packs to be moved like chess pieces. To counter the yamato and musashi, the USA didn't need an Iowa. They already had huge numbers of capital ships. Plus by the time the Iowa's were worked up, the war in Europe was basically over as far as battle units was concerned. Ok the RN had run its ships ragged to keep up with the demands of 4-5 years of war. But even still, the RN had Nelson, Rodney, Warspite, Queen Elizabeth, Malaya, valliant, revenge, royal sovereign, ramillies, resolution, KG the fifth, Anson, Howe and Duke of York. I know some would be in refit and the Russians did a number on royal sovereign.... But... Ontop of that you could include the littorios and the Richelieus. Plus of course, North Dakota, Washington, south Dakota, Indiana, Massachusetts, Alabama, and a dozen (more?) Standard types. If all that couldn't stop 2 battleships, which had no air support worthy of the name and not enough fuel for a return trip from a sortie. Then the bloody things must have Shields taken straight from startrek and cannons that fire sharks with feikken Lazar beams on their heads. The allies had over kill in the bag. They had shore bombardment tuned to the point that it probably scared Odin. They had air supremacy. And ask BKJ points out. If all the Iowa's were good for was shooting down kamakasi. The resources used on the Iowa's could have done so much more effectively and much less cost. *Yet oddly, contemporary American staff officers critisied the British general staff for being too cautious and not risking men to win. Not a accusation made against the admiralty as far as I know (except by Adm. King). But it is an interesting juxtaposition.
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  330. I see your logic in the benefit of hoping to over run France with the 1918 offensive. But it would still have failed. A interesting thought is this. Knowing the successes at tannenberg and in the east in general. What if the west was not supposed to be the first area the Germans won? In other words. If you persuade the general staff to attack in the west with a plan to establish trench ware fare on french soil. And ASAP release divisions after the race to the sea to the east. You make sure no atrocities are committed - world option is important. You do not attack in the west. Other than small scale things to keep the enemy off balance. You win in the east. Either through Russian revolution as it happened or because it happened sooner thanks to greater defeats. You could then use the spare man power to help the ottomans push for the Suez Canal. All the while your stopping AH form ever listening to hosendorf and your making them defend only against the Italians. The whole time you do not shell Scarborough and Hartlepool. You don’t carry out zeppelin raids on cities and you don’t instigate gas warefare but make sure your own side has masks. Why all this? You approach the allies by constantly saying ā€œwe didn’t want this war. We were all dragged into it. Let’s return to status quo ante bellum along the french/lux/bel border and agree to demilitarisation In Alsase lorrain with a possible plebiscite in 10 years time (this may be more acceptable to the reichstag) The British have this situation then: The Germans have avoided aggression since defensive warefare started. BUT losses have been horrific when the British attacked. Same for the french. The Germans acted with honour and seem to manage world option in their favour or at aleaat in nutrality. They just want the war over and the uk/french people want this too. Especially as they can hardly be told the Hun are war criminals. All the while, french soil is occupied, Belgium over run and the British have to worry about loosing the Suez Canal. And the two ā€œsick men of Europeā€ are holding strong and have conquered Serbia (great loss on both sides) but you use your future knowledge to get Aus to play nice in negotions. Net result. Peace without horror seen in reality. Germany and AH gain massively in the east. Poland may be created as a puppet satellite of the CP. the ottomans gain more land around the Black Sea. The British keep Suez and gain some German colonial possessions. The french get their land back, gain a buffer to the Germans and hope of peace for a decade and maybe Germany throws them a African colony. A good trade for huge tracks of the east of Europe. Italy gets sod all as usual The Austrians get a chunk of Serbia but the Serbians still have a small state and AH get parts of Russia. I’d say that’s doable with small changes to the timeline and access to the heads of state in the central powers. And it’s definitely plausible. Either way. It won’t stop a Ww2. Just change the lineup
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  336. @28:00 a bit (OK a lot) of additional info which is really worth thinking about. (sources at end) At the time the Germans were well behind on payments they owed the Soviets for food and raw materials. The German economy had been built on a foundation of sand. They'd pulled off their 'economic miracle'. But the economy was fundamentally weak and they had little in the way of hard capital to buy things on the world market. So basically they really had sod all else to pay the Soviets with. Add to this that they were well aware of the fact that they were now seriously dependent on the soviets as the blockade was in force*. And there was little option but to give the soviets the ship. That's the main economic factor. The other often overlooked# factor, were in diplomacy and geopolitics. At this time and shortly before. There were huge efforts from the allies to fix Russia into an alliance. That had narrowly been avoided due to ribbintrop/molotov pact and the criminal- laxidasical attitude of the allies in getting the Russians on side (sending their envoy via SHIP! Not aircraft or even train, at a time when days mattered, they sent an envoy via ship via the Arctic circle for god sake... Sigh). Because of this, stalin knew he was in a strong position to get as much as he could out of Germany (German accounts all note how shrewd a negotiatiator he was). AND the Germans knew they were at the mercy of stalin in many ways and Ribbintrop had orders from Hitler to really lay it on thick (there was a bit of a feeling of "we have to make up for all the anti communist stuff")... So when there was a chance to give the Russians a half completed ship instead of hard gold. They jumped at the chance. Not paying at all wasn't an option. Germany needed russian raw materials and they REALLY needed to keep Russia happy so that they didn't join the allies. To emphasise how important this was to Hitler. He even condemned Finland and withdrew support for them in the winter war. In spite of a huge backlash domestically for doing so. In every way. Keeping Russia on side in 39-40 was worth one half finished cruiser. If pushed I think they would have given up the whole class. So for the patron who asked the question and mentioned Germany surely wanting ships... The answer is yes. You'd be right if your only thinking militarily. But considering everything. There were more important things happening. History isn't about weapons it's about people after all. *(Hitler for all his faults when it came to learning lessons from history... was well aware of what this did in ww1. He was obsessed with not loosing the 'home front' which meant keeping the people (and industry) fed. # especially among people who think of historic stratagem in terms of computer games lol Main sources: W. SHIERER (obviously), some Kershaw and Hastings
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  354. Sorry to say a very bad analysis as the quality of either maker really depends on the person reading the comment. As a keen student of history and a mechanic by trade. I can't reconsile the 2. Here in the UK. Mercs are currently considered trophy cars for keeping up with the Jones's. Though very nice cars and with a certain flair for design, they are not not worth the huge price tag as your paying for the badge (from the pov of people who know cars). And they are very very poor for their cost when it comes to mechanical engineering and technology. Ford's however are excellent cars and have been for about 15 years. They are well made but they are now very expensive. A fiesta costs nearly a third as much as a basic house would! They aren't cheap anymore but show better value for money. A Sharpe turn around as 20 year old fords are rattling death traps and filled with plastic to make a wheel-e-bin blush. Even the fast ones which are none the less cool as fudge. In previous years mercs were known as cars that were badly made. Ford's as cars easy to steal. Before that. Mercs were hand finished premium cars which were the envy of the world and which few could afford... Ford's were mostly made in England and cars for the masses. But weren't very well made. They were a little better than British layland cars. But a Japanese car was far better and usually cheaper. Before that. Mercs were staff cars for the bad guys and ford made engines for tanks. Hard to know where your historical comparison lies šŸ˜‚ but this was fun to write. My point being. I can't see any time this applies to ships I'm afraid
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  370. Not sure nuclear could help at all. Though leading British physicists made great strides in theory in the 30s and early 40s the reality is, Britain couldn't afford a Manhattan project. And it certainly couldn't produce a bomb in time to help in ww2. Maybe they could have gotten a bomb sooner. But it's not like it would be in time to stop the fall of France etc. Also. The Manhattan project was a meeting of minds from many countries. Ironically leading Germans as well as Americans obviously, Brits and many other countries. Many of those being people that fled the Nazis ironically. But I digress. Point being. Many of these people had moved to and lived in America. To get the same sort of brain power pumped into a British Manhattan, you'd need America to share it's knowlage and it's scientists. And historically they didn't choose to do that (realpolitik I guess).... So even a head start may not give the allies the bomb before 45 by which point the war was won in all but name anyway. One thing I'm shocked Drach' didn't focus on was the building of more destroyers and escorts. With a much bigger escort force, early convoy losses could have been cut massively. Especially if money was put into asdic. Something slightly larger than the flower class and a tad more seaworthy and faster. With asdic and a hedgehog/depth charger thrower. A couple of hundred of them could have really put Churchills "greatest fear" to rest in 39/40. Oh and design a long range patrol plane (or just more Sunderland's).
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  408. Ā @Easy-EightĀ  I don't see how that's comparable. Your all in one country. Comparing Southampton to Naples is comparing Dallas to Bueno Aires. Two different countries. Do citizens of America living in North Dakota pay for the same air force as citizens of America who live in Texas? Also. (This has probably changed due to the UK leaving the EU. But it applies to the EU and EEA etc). Countries in the EU do pay to assist the arts, cutlure, sciences and of course history and museums in other EU countries. Funds are allocated to points of special historical or scientific interest. While the UK voters decided to leave the EU (by a tiny margin. But we are a democracy and chose freely). I know of nobody before then who complained about money being spent on museums. But we shan't get into that. It's a political mess. I like my politics to end around 1950 lol. Ironically. I live in England. I'm English and I pay taxes in England. Some of that money funds the upkeep of Edinburgh castle. Which is in another country. It also payed for the millennium stadium in Cardiff (again in another country) and towards the Titanic museum at Harland and Wolff in Belfast, which is not only in another country. But a country that shares no land boarder with my country. I have no issue with any of that. I can travel without hinderance to any of thoes countries. They are open boarders just like you have in the USA. I can go and see what my tax money paid for and enjoy the museums and attractions. Can uss Texas only be visited by people who live in Texas?
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  430. Ā @sarjim4381Ā  could not agree more!. I'm a strange one with my tea. When I brew in the cup, I leave the tea bag in! But have plenty of whole milk. I enjoy my hobbies/reading/puzzles/fixing things. And I used to forget to take my teabag out.... It came to be a habit! Not common in England. But a cup of tea is at its best when enjoyed. No matter how made! I'm a bit younger. 32, though when discussing centuries of naval history, a life span is a drop in the ocean (pun intended I'm afraid!) Im luck enough to live with my 93 year old grandfather. He has some stories! I've had a deep interest in history since I was a pup. I was very unwell as a child and grew up on documentary channels. So ww1/2 were my first interest. Combined with a love of reading.... The rest as they say is history. I'm sure if you came over we could head south. Strange people down there (sorry drach if you read this!). But some fine museums. Portsmouth is a wonderland. No other way about it. I've sadly not toured Belfast. I seem to have a curse where she's concerned. But the imperial war museum London is very good (small but of top quality). The IWM Duxford is fantastic if you enjoy Air warfare history's as well as naval history. And if land warefare is an interest then I hear the tank museum Bovingdon is amazing (I plan to visit in the new year). Where I live is a long way from these places. But I shouldn't use that as an excuse!). Oh, we have a preserved ww2 POW camp on my doorstep, now a huge museum to ww2, each hut is a theme or some-shuch. And an open air museum called Bemish (look it up. Another wonderland. Aimed at the Victorian era. But does cover the Edwardian and later). Plus the historic houses, estates and castles which Americans always enjoy when they visit. Then there's York (old York!) I could go on and on. The offer is very much there. I dare say it'd be an excuse to enjoy more of what the British isles have to offer myself! My step father is Royal Navy, I haven't served sadly. But I'd enjoy hearing your stories for sure. I wonder if Drachinifel realises how much he's doing for us history buffs? Side note. I don't use social media. But I do have Facebook which I use for the messenger app (for friends around the world). If you use it. My name is... My name! I have a yellow car as my photo. Chat soon Sar Jim, it's time for me to get some kip!
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  484. Ā @RonJohn63Ā  proof the only consistent thing in language is its inconsistencies! Lol I was going to consider the French angle. But I'd already went off on a huge tangent haha. I love accents and the weridness of the English language. Anyone who needs an introduction to the confusing state of English accents. Just needs to hear the two accents of the two cities in England called "Newcastle". Better yet. Just hear people from both cities say the name of where they live. It's comical. Side side note. I was checking into a hotel in New York years ago. The lady at the desk took my passport and said "oooo your English. I love the English accent" she then said "I do hope you enjoy your stay, please mention if you need a thing" in a fairly decent impression of the queen's English. Being from the north east and with family that are Geordies (YouTube the accent lol). I couldn't pass up the opportunity. My reply was along the lines of "Aye why eye pet al be grand. Div-ya-knaw where me anwer palls can grab a bevvy. Will be gannin oot on the toon the night like, but a quicken would be reet canny". All said in rapid fire in the way only a Geordie can. At which point I laughed and switched back to my normal smoggie accent (very different but still nowhere near queen's English). Apologised that I couldn't give her the accent she wanted. But that she was very kind and I'd enjoy my stay I'm sure. She was lovely. As we're all New Yorkers I met actually (I found the reputation they have was nowhere to be seen). Anyway. About to toll midnight here. All the best from a small part of England! Merry Christmas (I think you say happy Holidays there? Either way. All the best!)
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  583. Side note, fritz x wasn't deploed until mid 43. The situation had changed a fair bit by then (as far as north africa goes). Also, the stukas were more than capable of sinking ships. But if they encountered any fighter escort from malta or a carrier, they were cut down in droves. Back to the ships. This is the crux of the matter. It comes down to a fleet in being. Heavy units on the west french coast were a massive threat if they found a convoy without battleship escort (and if bismark had joined the ships in breast. the RN admiralty would want a minimum of 2 battleships to consider a convoy vaguely "safe". And here is the issue. With any number of convoys in the atlantic, transiting up the west coast of africa and in the north sea (once russia was involed). There were not enough battleships. Especially as some had to be kept in the home fleet, and force H at Gibraltar was guarding the most precious bit of real estate west of Egypt. So. The Kriegsmarine may not have attacked convoys in the med. But the italians did. Their littorio class ships were dam impressive beasts. And the RN never expected to face them. That was frances job. They did sorty and it was only sheer luck that more convoys were not decimated. how to defend against the italian navy.... you need more of them battleships you dont have. The irony is, the heavy surface ships that germany built. Were probably some of their most effective weapons of war. Sure they didn't accomplish much. But that didn't matter. The threat that they COULD was enough. I know i am waffleing on. But it's one of them things. There are so many sides to what happend and why
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  585. Ā William MulvaneyĀ  I dare say the Germans were terrifying. But the Italians sunk them. I'd recommend reading about the war in the med. It's fascinating. In the war diary's of canaries, Doenitz and Reader plus top nazis (Himmler springs to mind) show that they knew that forgetting about Russia for 7/8 months and instead taking Egypt and the oil fields beyond was likely a war winner. It's incredible how few people realise how easily Germany could have won the war. But only in a small window of time. And only if the stars aligned. Going back to our topic. If Bismarck tied up a few more ships and kept them from the med. And if (and this is the "if") Hitler had a moment to listen to his admirals. He could have taken Egypt, the Suez canal and with them the Persian oil fields, plus RN/empire bases like Malta and Cyprus. Gibraltar would become largely meaninglessness. And the axis would have time to take the balkens, Greece and such at lesure. Now consider Barbarossa, except army group south can push north and hook left around the black sea to take Stalingrad with ease. And all of a sudden. The war is very very scary. In no other theatre and in no other time were the allies able to loose so badly. And all of this could happen before American was in the war. It could have happened in the 2 and a half years before amrica entered and it could have happened in the year following America entering as that's how long it took for the us army to get stuck in. Thank god it didn't happen that way and once the us had boots in Europe, the Germans and their allies were loosing options quickly
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  606. Ā @bificommander7472Ā  you have a very good point about not invading Belgium. From a future point of view it does make sense. But I would think the benefits of deviating the land of your enemy over your own is important. Remember if your fighting a defensive war, as in the historical time line, then retreat is needed and it'd be nice to have lots of foreign soil to lay waste too rather than letting such withdrawal get closer and closer to the rhienland Also From the histories I've read. Everything in Germany was about the shifflin (sorry for spelling I'm tired and cba to look it up) plan. It was so much more than a "we invade and aim to do this". It was train movement planned on a national. Even continental scale. Ironically of course such plans in all countries meant that when the plans were activated they all grew on themselves and couldn't be stopped Given it was a plan that had been hammered into the German general staff for over 20 years. I cant see how you could alter it. Literally every detail had a plan and a time table. Plus. Germany really wanted Belgium or more precisely its coast. So it makes sense from their point of view to go for it and hope they may manage to negotiate something benafical (maybe even a garrison like the French had in the sarrland after 1919. Addition to that. I cant personally see Britain not going to war even without a invasion into Belgium. Yes we and the Germans were on good terms (way more so than pop history would have anyone believe). Up to the outbrske of war But Belgium was an excuse. The empire didn't care much about neutrality really. Look at Greece later in the war. Britain wanted what she always wanted. A Europe that was balanced. German hegemony in the west and a central powers from the Atlantic to the baltic to the black sea. That wasn't acceptable So to me Britain is going to get involved. That's my line of thinking But I like your idea as well. It's a gamble But if the British stay out the war then the central powers win. To me that's a given based on all fore knowlage. So yeh your idea would have a lot of merit. I do enjoy these debates!
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  661. Ā @sarjim4381Ā  I know it seems that way. But you may be shocked. I wouldn't write what I'm about to write on the Web normally. But I know your like me and love your history and your details. Details first. History as an * at the end (which I think you'll like).... I live in a very very small town (by England's standards) with a population of 35,000, this shares a border of only a dual carriageway (4 Lane Road with 70mph limit) with another town with a population of 85, 000 and across the river from that town is a large town with a population of 138,500. Now bare in mind that I have walked from one town center to the other. Many times. This isn't a large area. And lots of other towns are considered separate but may as well not be. The area is spread out into patches only due to geography and how the industrial revolution shaped the area. I live in the far north east of England. It takes me 6 times longer to drive to London than it takes a londoner to drive to France(including the cross Channel ferry!). North of me are several much larger towns and 2 cities before you get to the Scottish Borders. East is the sea. West is another City and the Lake District which is a huge area of tiny villages and mostly mountains and lakes. Bare in mind, the North is massively the most rural area and most sparsely populated of England. The Midlands is another world in comparison (I trained to be a nurse at university in the Midlands and lived there some years). And the South isnt just another world. Its a different solor system. The "North South divide" is a fact here. UK may seem to have low population density. But the reality is. Almost everyone lives in close proximity In England. The numbers from Wales and Scotland and NI change that a lot as do the lake district. But its a case of (as Churchill said), lies, dam lies and statistics... As the overall numbers don't tell the true picture. The towns I mentioned. The second largest has a large hospital with 20+ deaths when I last heard a few days ago. The largest town well over 50 several days ago. That doesn't include deaths in the community. It's probably much higher now but I haven't checked or asked my mother (who's a senior nurse in the middle towns hospital). I should worry as I'm massively immune suppressed for reasons. But I mainly just wish I could put my nursing training to good use. But sadly I'd just be a liability. Horrid feeling for one who knows history and feels as though I should be as willing to help the nation as my grandad did in 39-45. I went majorly off topic. My point is. I hope America locks down massively. I know about temporarily losing freedom for safety etc (Franklin?) but in this case. It's in everyone's interest. If the USA as a superpower in more debt than any nation ever. Collapses socially and or financially. Then I worry that everyone in the world can look forward to the 1920s depression as "the good old days". And although I know trump is popular over there. The rest of the world thinks he is a joke and would sooner follow homer Simpson. So it's not like the world would unite like we did with Roosevelt and Churchill. I think a socialist is more likely to support Mussolini than Europeans are to support anything trump ever prattles on about. Again my friend. Keep safe and keep distant. It was a joke here at first. But in the last few days it's a little scary. I have a friend who has it (a nurse and former colleague). She is in her early 50s. Is otherwise incredibly fit and healthy with no pre existing health issues. And she is at home and horribly unwell. Thankfully not hospitalised but as unwell as you can be and be at home. It's all very real when you know someone with it. *The towns btw are Billingham, Stockton and Middlesbrough which are just south of Hartlepool which is where I work and one of the places bombarded by the high seas fleet. As I'm sure you know. The other place famous in this case is Scarborough. A place I often visit on motorbike or in my modified car with friends as the roads there are amazing.
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  667. Ā @GARDENER42Ā  so the metallurgy isn't relevant? Nor is the skills of thoes building the ship? If the quality of the ammunition is irrelevant then I agree. That doesn't impact the ship itself (pun intended). But only if the ships are ramming eachother. What about the chemical industry in the building nation. I mean it's only important if the ship is designed to use an explosive charge to send the shell out the gun. Come to think of it. What about the fuseing system on the shell? I'd say that's important. Oh, and its shape. I mean. We aren't talking round shot. We can agree I am sure that the ship needs a crew. Let's forget quantity. We'll try quality. If it's not important then let's crew the ship with three types of people. 70+ year olds. They can sight the guns. We'll use normal military regects to handle the ammunition. Who cares if they have had polio or are missing a leg. That won't be an issue. As for the officers. Well they need to be able to think quickly..let's get teenagers. No decline inemtal faculties there. Let's have them crew a brand new top of the range destroyer, let's say a Fletcher class. We'll be generous and give it torpedoes. Of course they were built by slave labour who left out the detonators but let's not get bogged down with that. Commanded by a person suffering a serious mental health brakedown and an inexperienced dockworker replaced the engine lubricant oil with cooking oil (don't think it can happen? Ask the French in 1940) Against this 1945 destroyer with radar and shiney paint we have...... HMS Southampton... As she was at Jutland. With a superb crew. Built at the technological peak of the British empire. She's hopelessly out of date. Who would win? If we choose speed, protection and ability to sink other ships. Then the destroyer wins. Would it happen No. That's my point. You can't pick and choose circumstances. You either accept a broad generalisation and agree this is fun and or a learning exercise. Or accept it's not possible to compare one apple to another.
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  668. Ā @RedRocket4000Ā  not sure I can agree there. Forced labour was used by the Nazi government before the war even started. It was used for general labour and indeed specialised work as well. The most common uses were in mining and heavy construction but also in factories, on assembly lines. Some examples include: russian pows used in mining, most notably salt mines and coal. French pows were used in arms factory's (in contravention of the Geneva convention). Organisation Todt used impressed labour from occupied countries (including France, The Netherlands and especially Poland and Czechoslovakia). These workers built factories, submarine pens and the Atlantic wall. The chemical industry (IG Faban being the most famous) used concentration camp labour. The arms industry (notably Krupp, Thyssen and Henshel) also used concentration camp slave labour on production lines for guns, ammunition and vehicles. Slave labour was used to build huge numbers of rolling stock. Locomotives always were in demand and again OT provided impressed labour. Guns, ammunition, torpedoes, engines, air filtration systems and the refining of fuels were all done with the help of slave labour. All things the Kriegsmarine used. Shindlers list is a very good movie. But the comment about O.S. being disappointed if the factory ever made a shell that could be fired is the exception rather than the rule. Inmates and slave labourers consistently came up with very clever ways to sabotage whatever they were making. They did so to make sure they could pass inspections (and this was done at huge risk. The pentalty for sabotage was summery execution not just for the person responsible, but often entire work details). The KM used slave labour just like the Heer and the Luftwaffe. I would highly recommend "The volunteer" by J.Fairweather. and "The saboteur of Auschwitz" by C Rushton for some very good insights into ways the slaves worked against their captors :).
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  687. Ā @nnoddy8161Ā  it's not in a segment so to speak. It's been discussed in dry docks. If your new to the channel it would mean weeks of listening so I'll try and give you some thoughts, some are my own based on a lifetime wasted reading books on the war šŸ˜‚. This is long winded but I believe covers your question :) Long term the prevailing theory would be recall back to the Mediterranean. They were sent as a deterrent to the loss of Singapore. With Singapore lost. They had no mission. It's been argued they could fulfilled that role in Australia if they magically got there unharmed. I can't agree there. Australia is huge. They could act as a deterrent in one port maybe. But not the whole country. And if the Japanese fancied sending the kido butai over, then force Z would face the same challenge as sharnhorst and genaisenau. Haressment and damage by air attack. Only I don't believe there was a drydock in Australia that could birth them for repair (unlike Saint nazair etc). As for india, the Japanese didn't have the ability to project an invasion force that far. Add to that the island and phillipines campaigns were keeping them busy at sea. It's unlikely the IJA could convince the IJN to conduct an invasion in the CBI theatre even if it were possible.......... So your answer... They would be sent where they were needed most. The Mediterranean is often overlooked. But it was touch and go and in 40/41/42 things were pretty bleak. The Italian navy were a real force. The Luftwaffe were no slouch. Only the Eastern front diverting them let the pressure off. The RN were bleeding capital ships and the USN obviously weren't in the fight yet. But I've gone off topic. As for pearl. Again, they were needed in the med. But also. The problem would be supplies. Singapore was a large RN base. They had ammunition and spare parts. Pearl obviously didn't. So the answer to your question specifically is they wouldn't have made an contribution. But they may well have tipped the balance much earlier in the med. And that's a very interesting 'what if'. If you read this far. Well done šŸ¤“
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  709. Ā @Voron_AggravĀ  which is exactly what KW2 was an utter fool to do what he did. It's one of the few stereotypes of 20th century history that is actually factually sound. He did what he did because he had the power to do what he wanted. And he wanted to be able to urinate in the same stream as his cousins who looked after the English, Scottish crowns, rulers of the United Kingdom of GB and Ireland, the isles of man, channel Islands, possessions in the med, Egypt, the middle East, Persia, wider india and the Hindu and Muslim lands, the Pacific Islands (numerous), the continent of Australia and it's attachments NZ etc. Oh, Rohdizia (can't spell it but SA), carrabian possessions. Plus other African "possessions" and Canada etc etc. Yes most were governed with various levels of independence. And many were nations of their own. But the point is. Willie wanted to play so far beyond what Germany could do it was a joke. And that's not. Flippent remark. I've seen what's left of the English and Scottish ship yards that Are vaguely close to me. In the last 30 years I've seen much disappear but I've taked to/ heard stories ofmy grand and great grandfathers I respect All history. Buy I've also seen all kinds of evidence of the west coast yards. Not to mention Bristol way, the Belfast yards, the themes (yeh that London place) and Southampton and Portsmouth. Compare all that to what Germany had to offer and only keyboard 'hisorians' would even discuss the idea of Germany keeping up with the GBE. The idea is (respectively) laughable. And that's one of the (overly simplistic) reasons why ww1 was such a waste and basically a gang fight in a playground that went global
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