Comments by "Moon Shoes" (@moonshoes11) on "What is Morality?" video.

@AliMohammed-ez6nt If no gods exist objectively, then how can any morality be objective? Your Allah is based upon the god of Abraham. Judaism is based on the god of Abraham. As is Christianity, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses. Hinduism has multiple gods. You can’t provide any demonstration of any god or gods, which means we cannot assess objectively what any god or gods want. We can see objectively that these religions do not agree upon their gods. Atheists don’t objectively see any gods. So, we’d agree about there being no objective morality. Until we subjectively agree about well being versus suffering.
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@nataneley Nobody had to tell me. It’s easy to follow…see if you can. What is meant by morality, what we assess and judge as moral versus immoral is based on well being versus suffering. Slavery objectively causes harm for those that are enslaved. Christian doctrine declared slavery (owning another person as property) permissible by law. As well as beating slaves. At no time are any laws regarding slavery over turned within the doctrine itself.
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@AliMohammed-ez6nt Number 9, be dutiful to parents. Even if they are abusive? Even if they practice another faith?
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@nataneley Sure, so long as we can have honest, intellectual dialog. However, I will direct my argument against the doctrine itself, and not against you. To start with, I believe you probably hold a higher standard of morality than the doctrine does. So please don’t take it personally. Do you agree that slavery, owning another person as property, cause harm and goes against the well being of slaves? Do you find it immoral? I won’t provide a link as those are often blocked by YT. Bible verses are easy enough to search. For slavery I’d refer to Exodus 21, and Leviticus 25 to start with. Should I copy/paste the verses, or can you find them?
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@nataneley I don’t think you honestly read any of my responses. I specifically stated some serious differences between current secular employment, and what biblical law specifically calls for. I also demonstrated where the NT specifically directs slaves to obey cruel masters. It didn’t say not to. It said it was lawful to do. Current employers cannot do that. Because we recognize it is as immoral. The Bible never does this. According to doctrine, don’t eat shellfish was more important than don’t beat slaves. You’re not stating facts. You’re just parroting rhetoric and so far have dismissed everything I pointed out.
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@nataneley You didn’t even bother to look, but then you suggested I was lying? Exodus 21:20–21 says, “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property”. So long as the slave doesn’t die, they’re permitted to beat them.
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@AliMohammed-ez6nt You’re not the arbiter of what is true. Neither is the Quran. If you’re going to say existence is a “creation” which requires a creator, then you adopt a burden of proof to demonstrate existence was indeed a creation. By definition, however, a creation can be the result of natural processes. So, clarifying your definitions is important to further discussion. Also, I am an atheist. Don’t be condescending by telling me what I believe. The position I hold is not “creations have no creator”. My position is that there is no evidence to suggest there is a thinking agent creator, and that those that claim there is a thinking agent creator consistently fail to meet their burden of proof. Remember, both the Bible and the Quran make claims of the unsubstantiated variety. Those books are not any sort of authority on reality. They make claims which must be demonstrated to be true. I will ask, knowing full full well you cannot…. Can you demonstrate any god exists?
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@nataneley I’m sorry, Nathaniel, but you seem to be mistaken. You’re parroting a poorly constructed argument I’ve heard a hundred times before. You also made the false assumptions that I would say something rude, and that I haven’t done research. In fact, I have attended Seminary. I’ve done a great deal of study. So please, ask questions, but don’t preach. Remember, honest dialog. I’m not attacking you. Let me explain where I disagree. First, you’re making a distinction. You don’t support slavery, but “slavery” was like working at Amazon. So, you’re referring to indentured servitude. We’re a debt is owed, and paid off by working as a slave. Now, Jeff Bezos isn’t allowed to beat his employees, so long as they don’t die within a couple days. However, doing som is expressly permitted according to the doctrine. I think we’d both agree this would be immoral for Amazon to do. So, our standards are both higher than this doctrine calls for. Now, there was indentured servitude during these times. However, there was also the sort of slavery where people were owned as property for life. Hebrew slaves, if male, were released after six years. Not the females. Not the children of the females. Not any non-Hebrew would be released. They could be passed down as an inheritance because they were property. This is doctrine. I encourage you to read it. Amazon can’t do anything like this.
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@nataneley Remember, with great power comes great responsibility. The doctrine never says don’t own people as property. The New Testament refers to “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with all fear. Not only the kind, but the cruel.” The New Testament says Jesus was here not to change the laws, but fulfill them. Right? Now, if this doctrine declared not to own people as property as opposed to permitted it lawfully, wouldn’t that be a more moral model?
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@AliMohammed-ez6nt That doesn’t answer my question.
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@AliMohammed-ez6nt Except, unless you can demonstrate Allah actually exists, you’re more than likely believing in a false god.
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@AliMohammed-ez6nt Is there a call for violence against or death of disbelievers anywhere in the Quran?
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@AliMohammed-ez6nt Do you have the capacity to change your mind when proven wrong?
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@M4x1m1l14nn I hate to break it to you…but your subjective moral opinions, about your subjective invisible friend’s subjective moral opinions don’t make for anything objective. Even beliefs don’t agree on the gods they believe in, or their moral laws. Nothing objective. I can most certainly condemn moral values that support things like slavery based on the objective suffering it causes.
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@KevinJohnson-cv2no Christianity is itself immoral. Owning slaves, is immoral.
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@nataneley Are you serious? Are current employers allowed to beat their employees? Are employers allowed to own employees as property? And pass them down as an inheritance? What context are you speaking about? You’re not even being honest enough to read my responses. Now, how often are employers allowed to slaughter a village, killing the men, women, and boys, but keeping the virgin girls as slaves? Be honest. Answer the question. Now, why are you trying desperately to defend something you know is immoral?
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@nataneley You just admitted you’ve never read the Bible, or the verses I shared. This is why I requested honest dialog. Of your god can command against eating shellfish and not owning slaves, your god is a problem, Now you’re defending slavery, which you admitted was immoral.
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@nataneley Leviticus 25 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. Exodus 21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever. 7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her[b] for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money. Numbers 31 17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
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@nataneley Christianity isn’t about love. And it’s not about morality. But you’re now defending slavery, which you had previously admitted was immoral. Because of your religion. Thanks for proving my point. Religion poisons everything.
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