Youtube comments of Moon Shoes (@moonshoes11).
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@dantecanava5370
Again, you state that you hold a belief for which you do not require evidence.
In other words, you don’t have any reason to believe, but you believe just the same.
I never claimed that I expect any god to do anything. I asked you for evidence that any god exists. And you not only failed to offer any, you asserted you made your conclusion without requiring evidence of any kind. By that same method, you could also conclude Allah, Vishnu, Zeus, Odin, and Thor also exist.
As well as Big Foot, Pixies, Hobbits, and Unicorns. Right?
So, it is was easier for you to be fooled into your conclusion than it will be to convince you that you’ve fooled yourself.
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Disorderly conduct is a general legal term that refers to behavior that disturbs the peace, morals, or safety of the public or a group of people. It can include a variety of offenses, such as:
Fighting, threatening, or violent behavior
Using language, gestures, or displays that are obscene, threatening, or menacing
Actions that are likely to cause injury or incite a breach of the peace
Nuisances
Offensive or immoral conduct in public.
So, everything Trump does, every minute of every day.
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@yoryteperman429
You’re not very bright.
I didn’t choose to become an atheist. I’m just intellectually honest enough to admit the the evidence for the claim doesn’t have evidence to support the claim.
Oh, and your assertions regarding atheism and what it leads to is based completely on your incredulity, your bias, and your dishonest nature.
I’m an atheist, obviously, and I’ve already had to correct you on several terms. You’ve also suggested now more than once that somehow you know what atheists think and feel better than the atheist does. That is a clear sign you’re dishonest in your argument. It’s likely you feel this need to attack based on your own insecurities.
As for purpose or meaning, I have both in my life. I don’t need an imaginary friend to have purpose or find meaning. And if your meaning is based on mythology and make-believe, than I’d argue that your purpose is far less genuine than my own.
Now, can we address that you worship the god of slavery, and probably aren’t even educated enough to know it?
So child, if you want to engage, try not to be triggered, and try to be as honest as you can.
Admit that you didn’t understand that agnosticism and atheism aren’t mutually exclusive.
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@donut9719
The OP said they were Christian. Christian doctrine would be the Bible.
Specifically, Exodus 21. More in Leviticus 25.
Exodus 21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
As for drowning babies, I’d refer you to the story of Noah’s Ark.
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@jonathanjohnson8376
A day is a period of twenty-four hours as a unit of time, reckoned from one midnight to the next, corresponding to a rotation of the earth on its axis.
During those times, a day was still the same measurement, even if not as clearly defined. We refer to a day only on planet earth, since we do not inhabit other planets. Look how absurd you have to be to try to make the Bible seem accurate. What planet do the stories in the Bible take place? Is Jesus an alien?
When you ask for answers to all of my questions, be specific.
Do you want me to answer whether donkeys and snakes can speak?
Do you want me to explain all of science to you in the comments here?
Science is our most reliable method for measuring reality. I’d defer to the evidence science has in comparison with the bogus claims made in the Bible, and the Bible will lose every time.
But claiming the Bible is accurate when referring to how long it took for the earth to form, and whether the earth was formed before the sun, just means you’re not even qualified to have this discussion. You’ve allowed your religion to impair your ability to reason, it would seem.
Now, you may get some value from your religious beliefs. That’s your own set of problems to cope with. Just don’t pretend that it’s anything more than a feel good story, and don’t try to claim offers anything in terms of scientific accuracy.
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@briancannon4607
Yes, I know what Christianity claims. Although, the free will argument has no bearing on whether or not a god exists, or why he remains hidden.
Yes, I know the mythology….man chose to disobey God. But no, the plot line doesn’t make sense, despite you repeating it senselessly.
You’re suggesting that since you can’t think of any better explanation for the existence of the universe, then a god must exist. Do you understand this is simply an argument from incredulity? Do you understand that the Big Bang model NEVER suggests the universe was created from “nothing”? This also speaks directly towards your personal incredulity. You’re not even aware the Big Bang model NEVER suggests a universe came from nothing,
Also, you’re parroting poor apologetics by suggesting an understanding of science requires faith. Whether you like it or not, you just admitted faith is unreliable.
And it is. Faith can be used to justify any position, even when the position is demonstrably wrong. However, science doesn’t require faith. So, you’re aware faith is unreliable, yet you cling to faith to support your unreliable conclusions.
Weird also, and another admission…humans can’t comprehend the mind of God but at the same time you claim to understand the mind of God.
But you still can’t demonstrate any God actually exists.
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@briancannon4607
When you claim to know why God give people free will, you’re claiming to know the mind of God. You can’t have it both ways.
If this is a fruitless discussion, it is because you’re not open to facts and reality.
Oh really, you prayed for me? Did you ask God what it would take to convince me that he exists, as I had asked?
Yes, your problem was to plant a seed, but you offered nothing to support your claims. No, this isn’t about me rejecting God. This is about me rejecting your baseless assertions, and fallacious reasoning. There you go again, blaming the person seeking and not the person failing.
Think this through: I am asking sincere questions. I even suggested you ask God what would convince me. Did you sincerely do so?
If so, what was God’s response? Did God offer anything that would be convincing? If so, I’d be convinced,
If not,either he doesn’t want to convince me, or he doesn’t exist. So far, there is no reason to conclude any God exists.
You have chosen to reject reality and embrace fallacious reasoning, and unreliable methods.
Set that aside, since you cannot demonstrate any God exists. Tell me though, why would you want to worship the God of slavery? And a God that drowns babies?
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@peachyrose3499
Whether things today are normal isn’t relevant to whether or not a god exists. I wouldn’t accept that as anything more than evidence that things don’t seem to be normal today, at best. Depending on what one means as normal.
Now, if the evidence you have isn’t sufficient to demonstrate a god exists, I would say that is evidence for a god either.
For example, if three believers of three different gods all claim a god come to them in their dreams, this may be “evidence” enough for each of those three people, but it isn’t evidence for any of those gods.
I accept your apology. Please understand, I can be a civil or uncivil as the next guy. If you’re interested in civil discourse, I can oblige. No harm no foul, or as I like to say….peace and reason.
If your evidence wouldn’t be convincing to me or others, why would it convince you?
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@NeroCloud1
I’m certain I never made any assertion that anyone in particular needs pride month. Decent people choose to respect others and their differences.
It’s a fair question, and the reason Pride is done is because many in the LGBTQ are attacked for their differences. Often physically assaulted, and even murdered.
Have you ever thought to actually have that conversation with so,done in the community? Or do you have a pressing need to attack even the idea of inclusivity and acceptance?
Pride is a cultural concept within the LGBTQIA+ community that can have different meanings for different people. It can represent solidarity, identity, and collectivity, as well as resistance to violence and discrimination. Pride can also be about acceptance, equality, and celebrating the work of LGBTQIA+ people. It can also be a time to educate people about LGBTQIA+ history and raise awareness of issues that affect the community.
Quite often, religious fundamentalists hide behind their religious beliefs in order to hate on others. They’re often indoctrinated into very narrow mindedness at the expense of “others”.
More so, there is some crazy notion from the right that the LGBTQ community is about hurting children, when the reality is that sort of stuff has been happening at churches. Even the Catholic Church has millions of dollars set aside to defend criminal priests. And the fundamentalist community turns a blind eye, but falsely accuses the community they hate.
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@OldSchoolgamer49
It seems your world view isn’t tied too closely to reality.
I recommend either reducing your confidence in beliefs for which you don’t have evidence, and/or discover more reliable methods before allowing confidence in things that are demonstrably false.
You’re making an assertion about the Covid vaccine which is demonstrably false. I doubt very much I can change your mind, because you don’t seem to care whether or not your belefs are true. Data shows that while break through do occur, the vaccine absolutely reduces risk of infection, risk of spread, and risk,of,serious symptoms up,to and including death. You’re asserting this isn’t the case, but all the data shows otherwise. This demonstrates that you don’t have the skills set to differentiate fact from fiction, or you simply don’t value truth.
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@whatisdoneinthedarkwillbeb9204
If you’re doubting the data simply because you want to consider the government the boogie man, you’re just not qualified to comment.
Your comments aren’t even relevant. Yes, we know it,takes,time for the vaccines to become effective. But they don’t become effective for the unvaccinated.
Yes, we know there are break through cases of infection even with the vaccinated. However, being vaccinated reduces the chance of infection, reduces chance of serious symptoms, and reduces risk of spreading the virus. In every way, it is a better option.
Yes, distancing and wearing masks is also a helpful measure, knowing full well those measures aren’t as effective as vaccinations.
People with the shots may still be going to the hospital, but at least they have taken the best precaution they can, contrasting them to people who,refuse the vaccine simply because they are afraid of the boogie man.
Do,you understand what an equivocation fallacy is? It seems like ya don’t, little man.
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@womanistmusing
Yes, millions of people for hundreds of years buy into delusions.
Other side, there would only be one religion.
Even with the Abrahamic religions, there are millions who believe in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Mormonism, and Jehovah’s Witness.
They can’t all,be right, but they can all be wrong.
And none can demonstrate their beliefs are correct.
So who is asleep and afraid past their own deceptions?
The one who is skeptical and waits for evidence, or the one who is convinced based on indoctrination and without evidence?
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COVID-19 among children and adolescents
Children and adolescents can be infected with SARS-CoV-2, can get sick with COVID-19, and can spread the virus to others.9-15 In the United States through March 2021, the estimated cumulative rates of SARS-CoV-2 infection and COVID-19 symptomatic illness in children ages 5-17 years were comparable to infection and symptomatic illness rates in adults ages 18-49 and higher than rates in adults ages 50 and older.16 Estimated cumulative rates of infection and symptomatic illness in children ages 0-4 years are roughly half of those in children ages 5-17 years, but are comparable to those in adults ages 65 years or older. These cumulative rates were estimated from CDC models that account for under-detection among reported cases.17
Several studies conducted early during the COVID-19 pandemic suggested that the incidence rate among children and adolescents was lower than among adults.9, 10, 18-23 However, the lower incidence rates may have been due in part to children, when compared to adults, having fewer opportunities for exposure (due to school, daycare, and activity closures) and a lower probability of being tested.17 Studies that have systematically tested children and adolescents, irrespective of symptoms, for acute SARS-CoV-2 infection (using antigen or RT-PCR assays) or prior infection (through antibody testing) have found their rates of infection can be comparable, and in some settings higher, than in adults.12, 15, 24-29
Children and adolescents can also transmit SARS-CoV-2 infection to others. Early during the COVID-19 pandemic, children were not commonly identified as index cases in household or other clusters9, 10 largely because schools and extracurricular activities around the world were closed or no longer held in-person. However, outbreaks among adolescents attending camps, sports events, and schools have demonstrated that adolescents can transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others.11, 14, 30 Furthermore, transmission studies that have examined secondary infection risk from children and adolescents to household contacts who are rapidly, frequently, and systematically tested demonstrate that transmission does occur.29, 31
Compared with adults, children and adolescents who are infected with SARS-CoV-2 are more commonly asymptomatic (never develop symptoms) or have mild, non-specific symptoms (e.g. headache, sore throat).32-36 Similar to adults with SARS-CoV-2 infections, children and adolescents can spread SARS-CoV-2 to others when they do not have symptoms or have mild, non-specific symptoms and thus might not know that they are infected and infectious. Children are less likely to develop severe illness or die from COVID-19.23, 37-39 Nonetheless, 271 COVID-19 deaths among persons ages 5-17 years and 120 deaths among those 0-4 years have been reported to the National Center for Health Statistics through July 7, 2021.8 The extent to which children suffer long-term consequences of COVID-19 is still unknown.40 Although rates of severe outcomes (e.g. hospitalization, mortality) from COVID-19 among children and adolescents are low,41, 42 youth who belong to some racial and ethnic minority groups are disproportionately affected similar to adults. For example, a higher proportion of COVID-19 cases in school-aged children who are Hispanic or Latino or are Black or African American were hospitalized or required intensive care unit (ICU) admission than reported among White school-aged children.41 Underlying medical conditions are also more commonly reported among children who are hospitalized or admitted to an ICU than those not.41, 43 CDC’s COVID Data Tracker provides up-to-date information on Demographic Trends of COVID-19 cases and deaths in the US reported to CDC.
The evidence that children and adolescents can be infected with, get sick from, and transmit SARS-CoV-2 continues to evolve. As with the studies from early during the COVID-19 pandemic, the quality and comparability of reported studies is affected by the study design, the method used to detect SARS-CoV-2 infection, the prevention measures in place during the study period, and the background rate of infection in the community.33, 44, 45 The introduction of new variants of the virus into the population likely will further affect the evolving epidemiology and interpretation of future studies as will understanding how transmission varies by the age of the child. COVID-19 vaccination of adults and adolescents could also impact the incidence of COVID-19 in the United States, as young children will comprise a greater proportion of the population who are unvaccinated and therefore at risk.
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@WithLoveAshley
Pointing out the fact that prayer works at about the same rate as chance isn’t hateful. It is demonstrably true.
Even if you religion teaches you to feel persecuted, just because someone points out you’re wrong doesn’t mean it is hateful.
And it’s funny, you wanted to call me hypocritical, when I wasn’t…just because you’re hating on me.
You ask how I would have any idea what prayer does if I don’t pray. At least now you’re asking an almost legitimate question.
There have been scientific studies that show prayer works at about the same rate as chance. Only slightly worse. You can look it up.
But also, why are you convinced I have never tried to pray? That is pretty silly. In fact, I was once a believer, and I even attended Seminary.
You “know” my mind won’t be changed, but it already has. The reason you know you can’t change my mind is because you know,you can’t ever show that prayer works, perhaps. And the reason you won’t change your mind is because you don’t care whether your beliefs are true, perhaps.
But you accused me of being hypocritical, when I wasn’t. You should admit that an apologize.
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@jonathanjohnson8376
How can there be a day with no sun, and the concept of a day is based on the movement of the sun?
Remember, those terms were used by the people who wrote the book, not by the magical sky daddy you imagine exists.
There is no other reference of the concept of a day offered anywhere else in the text.
A rattle snake making a noise with it’s tale isn’t speaking. Sure, it can use it as a warning, but could it explain the concept of a forbidden fruit to a human?
If you were only educated enough to understand the difference between proof and evidence, I might not have to explain science to you.
Yes, there is evidence, or “proof” as you’d call it…that these processes take longer than six days. An exact number isn’t required so long as the evidence shows it was more than six days. But yes, we do have evidence for those processes. Sad you aren’t already aware of this…and that you need all of science explained to you.
And how sad it is you think someone had to be there. Lol…who was there to write down that it took six days.
A detective doesn’t have to be there to witness a murder to determine who the murderer was.
This is very sad you’d let your religion impair your ability to reason and think critically. Are you eight years old? Too much Ken Hamm in your life, no doubt.
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@peachyrose3499
I recommend seeking more specific info from a geologist, as I am not one.
Mount Sodom began its rise hundreds of thousands of years ago and continues to grow taller at a rate of 3.5 millimetres (0.14 in) a year.
Movements of the Great Rift Valley system, along with the pressure generated by the slow accumulation of earth and rock, pressed down on the layers of salt, creating Mount Sodom. It is about 80% salt, 720 feet high, capped by a layer of limestone, clay and conglomerate that was dragged along as it was squeezed up from the valley floor.
It is approximately 8 kilometres (5 mi) long, 5 kilometres (3 mi) wide, and 226 metres (742 ft) above the Dead Sea water level, yet 170 metres (557 ft) below world mean sea level. Because of weathering, some portions have separated. One of these pillars is known as "Lot's wife", in reference to the Biblical account of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Again, these pillars are dated to be between 100,000 to 200,000 years old, which doesn’t fit the Biblical time frame.
The natural formation of geological structures are evidenced all over the world. The Bible makes a supernatural claim about the formation.
But again, it is a claim…not evidence. You’d have to provide evidence showing the Bible’s claim was accurate, but we have evidence already suggesting it isn’t.
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@I_Am_Monad
I’ll be waiting for your acknowledgment, and correction.
Exodus 21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her[b] for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.
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Rev. Cletus Thudbuckle
If you want to do this, I’m game.
Please be civil. You’re already a little triggered.
You don’t get to blame the murder of millions of people simply because of lack of a belief in a god.
Also, you literally worship an alleged god that drowned almost everybody, allegedly. Right?
Get of your moral unicorn. You can’t win this argument.
According to biblical text, your god is responsible for murdering more people than anyone, ever. Thousands of times over.
As for evidence to the contrary for claims of the existence of gods?
That would depend on the claim of course.
If we use the Noah’s Ark story of a claim of something your god had a part in, the is overwhelming evidence against all such claims.
If we use the biblical creation story, we have over whelming evidence against all such claims.
If we use claims of a man living in a fish, or walking on water, we have evidence to the contrary.
I don’t claim to be an arbiter of evidence. However, you used a logical fallacy which is a demonstration that you believe without warrant, and don’t know it.
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@ChrisSmith-xh9wb
Yes, you really have exactly zero.
Paul does make a first hand claim, but his claim refers to a vision.
Scribes writing down second or third hand claims aren’t first hand claims.
You don’t know who the authors were, and you don’t have original manuscripts.
You don’t have any record outside of the gospels, which were written by zealots, for zealots.
It isn’t a historical account.
Your journey included chasing confirmation bias. You managed to convince yourself for poor reasons.
Supernatural claims can’t be demonstrated to be true. Yet, you believe the specific ones you were taught to believe, despite having any real reason to accept them.
The “final destination” is circular, at best.
When a Hindu, Muslim, or Mormon make similar claims about their journey and their destination, but also have no evidence which supports the claims..
That makes your equally ridiculous. Sorry, I know you’re convinced and that seems harsh.
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@presupping4eva
Here is what we have evidence of…
Quantum fields, then physics, then chemistry, then biology, then physical brains, the consciousness, then reason and logic.
You’re arguing, against all evidence, and through special pleading…that consciousness, reason and logic existed before hand.
But of course, you admit this is an irrational position…but adhere to it for no good reason.
Meanwhile, despite being wrong…you believe you deserve to be treated differently than those who disagree with you.
And those that disagree with you deserve torment.
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@nataneley
I’m sorry, Nathaniel, but you seem to be mistaken. You’re parroting a poorly constructed argument I’ve heard a hundred times before.
You also made the false assumptions that I would say something rude, and that I haven’t done research. In fact, I have attended Seminary.
I’ve done a great deal of study. So please, ask questions, but don’t preach. Remember, honest dialog. I’m not attacking you.
Let me explain where I disagree. First, you’re making a distinction. You don’t support slavery, but “slavery” was like working at Amazon.
So, you’re referring to indentured servitude. We’re a debt is owed, and paid off by working as a slave. Now, Jeff Bezos isn’t allowed to beat his employees, so long as they don’t die within a couple days. However, doing som is expressly permitted according to the doctrine. I think we’d both agree this would be immoral for Amazon to do.
So, our standards are both higher than this doctrine calls for.
Now, there was indentured servitude during these times. However, there was also the sort of slavery where people were owned as property for life.
Hebrew slaves, if male, were released after six years. Not the females. Not the children of the females. Not any non-Hebrew would be released. They could be passed down as an inheritance because they were property. This is doctrine. I encourage you to read it.
Amazon can’t do anything like this.
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@donnawatkins8404
Read it for yourself…
If a slave woman has children, they belong to the master as property, and are not released.
Exodus 21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
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@skittywittyyyy
I’m not being sarcastic at all. You claim he exists, but if I asked you to demonstrate this was true, could you?
Nobody else has ever been able to.
There is some evidence such a rabbi may have existed, or that several existed, and the stories built around one or more of these people. Apocalyptic preachers were very common in the day. What nobody can do is demonstrate any supernatural event even in modern times, let alone a historical event.
Even the gospels lack any first hand claims to witnessing a resurrected Jesus. The best we have are third and fourth hand accounts, which are hearsay.
As for your bias against the LGBTQ, you’d have no way to show what any God wants, thinks, says, or does…in reality. Because you cannot demonstrate any God exists in reality.
So no. I’m not being sarcastic. ✌️
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@livefree316
I’m happy to engage. Let’s see if you can keep up, remain honest, and participate on an intellectual level.
Your challenge is for me to prove I have enough knowledge to deny (your) god’s existence.
My claim isn’t that I know a god doesn’t exist. But that isn’t the standard we use.
By that standard, you can’t prove Allah doesn’t exist. You can’t prove Vishnu doesn’t exist. You can’t prove Odin doesn’t exist.
For that matter, you can pt prove unicorns and BigFoot doesn’t exist.
So this isn’t a matter of being knowledgeable enough to prove a god doesn’t exist.
It’s about being knowledgeable enough to recognize that standard isn’t useful.
The problem here is your failure to meet your burden of proof.
What you don’t have is warrant to conclude any gods actually do exist.
Yet, you’re convinced.
I am knowledgeable to know that If you claim a god exists, you own the burden of proof. this is where you need to acknowledge the difference
As for your riddles, order can result from chaos and non order. This can be demonstrated in any number of various experiments.
“Can no life create life?” The phrasing of this question is a problem. “Can life result from non-life?” Is a better way to phrase it.
Creation requires a creator. But you don’t get to apply the title of “creation” unless you can first demonstrate a creator. And you can’t.
You can’t demonstrate any gods exist, or any gods created life. And of course, you have a problem with infinite regress.
Did your god create itself out of non-existence? Careful not to use special pleading for something you can’t demonstrate exists.
What do,you know,of the gospels and scripture? Do,you even know who wrote the gospels? Of course you don’t. They are anonymous writings.
And you don’t have original manuscripts. You have writing from decades after the event, based on hearsay from one zealot, of supernatural events that don’t actually take place in reality.
For centuries, people have believed in various gods. Many people believe in the god of Abraham. Judaism is based on the god of Abraham. Are you Jewish?
Islam is based on the god of Abraham. Are you Muslim? Mormonism is based on the god of Abraham. Are you Mormon?
The point here is that many people are convinced of things that conflict with each other. The number of people who are convinced isn’t relevant to whether or not the claims are true. This is the outsider’s test.
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@bethmiller5347
Can you choose to believe that Ohio floats seven miles above the rest of the country?
Can you choose to believe multiple gods exist?
I don’t know what would convince me a god exists. Certainly not hearsay, which is all you have.
Perhaps if you prayed to Jesus that all amputees would regrow a limb, it would be convincing.
But again, if a God exists, this God would know. And if you think,your good is all powerful, and can answer your prayers, why not ask him.
I already have asked, for years and years, and I can’t get an answer. So, please….ask him. Ask him what would convince me, and let me know.
If you can tell me, then we will both be convinced.
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@okstate999
The burden of fatal police violence is an urgent public health crisis in the USA. Mounting evidence shows that deaths at the hands of the police disproportionately impact people of certain races and ethnicities, pointing to systemic racism in policing. Recent high-profile killings by police in the USA have prompted calls for more extensive and public data reporting on police violence. This study examines the presence and extent of under-reporting of police violence in US Government-run vital registration data, offers a method for correcting under-reporting in these datasets, and presents revised estimates of deaths due to police violence in the USA.
Methods
We compared data from the USA National Vital Statistics System (NVSS) to three non-governmental, open-source databases on police violence: Fatal Encounters, Mapping Police Violence, and The Counted. We extracted and standardised the age, sex, US state of death registration, year of death, and race and ethnicity (non-Hispanic White, non-Hispanic Black, non-Hispanic of other races, and Hispanic of any race) of each decedent for all data sources and used a network meta-regression to quantify the rate of under-reporting within the NVSS. Using these rates to inform correction factors, we provide adjusted estimates of deaths due to police violence for all states, ages, sexes, and racial and ethnic groups from 1980 to 2019 across the USA.
Findings
Across all races and states in the USA, we estimate 30 800 deaths (95% uncertainty interval [UI] 30 300–31 300) from police violence between 1980 and 2018; this represents 17 100 more deaths (16 600–17 600) than reported by the NVSS. Over this time period, the age-standardised mortality rate due to police violence was highest in non-Hispanic Black people (0·69 [95% UI 0·67–0·71] per 100 000), followed by Hispanic people of any race (0·35 [0·34–0·36]), non-Hispanic White people (0·20 [0·19–0·20]), and non-Hispanic people of other races (0·15 [0·14– 0·16]). This variation is further affected by the decedent's sex and shows large discrepancies between states. Between 1980 and 2018, the NVSS did not report 55·5% (54·8–56·2) of all deaths attributable to police violence. When aggregating all races, the age-standardised mortality rate due to police violence was 0·25 (0·24–0·26) per 100 000 in the 1980s and 0·34 (0·34–0·35) per 100 000 in the 2010s, an increase of 38·4% (32·4–45·1) over the period of study.
Interpretation
We found that more than half of all deaths due to police violence that we estimated in the USA from 1980 to 2018 were unreported in the NVSS. Compounding this, we found substantial differences in the age-standardised mortality rate due to police violence over time and by racial and ethnic groups within the USA. Proven public health intervention strategies are needed to address these systematic biases. State-level estimates allow for appropriate targeting of these strategies to address police violence and improve its reporting.
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@LRM5195
Murder rates, like most violent crime rates, are lower in more secular nations and more secular states in the U.S. such as Vermont and Oregon compared to more religious states like Louisiana and Alabama. The safest cities in the world are nearly all in nonreligious countries and the eight that are in the U.S. are in the least religious regions.
Nearly every measure of health or well-being finds that less religious countries score better. That includes supportive family and youth systems, honest government, non-discrimination, protection of political and civil liberties, peace, and prosperity with a high quality of life.
On the flip side, the negative trend is very evident in the U.S. Here, the most religious states are the same ones with the most poverty, ill-health, infant mortality, venereal disease, teen pregnancy, and low rates of education.
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@marseillesvieux2987
Exodus 21
When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her[b] for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.
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@marseillesvieux2987
Yes, I am ignoring the cultural differences that don’t matter.
It doesn’t matter whether humans engaged in slavery. Yes, it would be immoral just the same.
However, if you’re claiming an all powerful “all loving” God made something as immoral as slavery permissible by law…
You’re suffering from cognitive dissonance.
Slavery, in Biblical times, according to the Bible itself…
Included Indentured Servitude for Male Hebrew.
However, Female Hebrews we’re not indentured servants, but owned for life.
If a female,slave had children, they would be owned for life.
Those people would be someone else’s property.
It’s immoral, and you know it.
Yet, you worship the god that made it permissible.
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@stephenvalastro5678
Well, praying hasn’t seemed to influence a lot, but have at it and we will see how it goes.
You can ask your god what would convince me, and let me know what your gods says.
I’m sure I don’t have Holy Spirit, but I am also not convinced others do either.
As for good will, what does that mean and why would you assume I don’t have it?
Instead of telling me what I believe, why not ask instead? It saves you the embarrassment of being mistaken.
As for a god, how can I choose to accept a god that I am not convinced actually exists?
When all I ask from you is a demonstration that one does exist, and I get mostly ad hominem attacks.
Settle down, be honest, and converse like an adult. Or choose to move along.
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@matthewsalazar4553
You’re assuming there is someone to stand in front of.
If your fictional friend really did exist, I’d ask why he remained hidden, why he left no evidence for his existence.
I’d ask why the gospels had no first hand accounts of the resurrection, and only third hand accounts..and why he’d expect anyone to take that seriously.
I’d ask why, if his message was so important, that something as unreliable as faith would be needed.
I’d ask why he made slavery permissible by his own law, according to the doctrine.
I’d ask why he drowned babies.
I’d ask why would he be worthy of praise and worship, when he is immoral.
I’d point out that sending people to eternal torment for temporal crimes is both unjust and immoral.
But you’re still putting the cart before the horse. You still can’t demonstrate any God exists.
But when you stand before Allah, and he asked why your worshipped zombie Jesus, what will you say?
When you stand before Vishnu, and ask why you rejected Hinduism, are you going to tell Vishnu Hinduism was wrong?
When you stand before the God of Honesty and Skepticism, are you going to say you allowed weak minded faith to fool you?
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@rlhicks1
Actually, I’m not wrong. Here is why; a mundane human may have existed in history. I don’t dispute that. But when people refer to Jesus the Christ, that cannot ever be confirmed in history, as NO supernatural events can.
So there is a definite distinction to be made from a real human, and a magical being. So, in fact…I am indeed correct.
What you’re doing is making an equivocation fallacy, confusing the mythological character with the actual person.
Every other reference you made can easily be debunked, and you should perhaps investigate those more closely. So what if the Quran copied and changed what the Bible said. The quaran doesn’t consider Jesu to be anything other than another prophet, and not the Christ claimed by Christians.
Tacitus wrote about Jesus a hundred years later, so was not contemporary and would have no way to verify any claims. In fact, there are no contemporary wiring’s about Jesus outside of the Bible.
We know for certain the gospels were anonymous, and that there are no first hand claims made within the gospels form anyone saying they witnesses a respected Jesus. Those weren’t written for decades after the fact, and we have no original manuscripts.
Everything else is just fanatical writings by and for other fanatics.
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@adiblatif
How do you account for your claim that only supernaturally this could happen?
How do you know a god made such prediction?
If I order a steak done medium well, and it arrives medium well, was it a prophecy?
Creation presupposes a creator, which is why existence is considered existence, not a creation. In order for you to call existence a creation, you must first demonstrate a creator, otherwise, you’re using circular reasoning.
To be completely ignorant of science and still suggest it is ludicrous is called incredulity.
You have nothing but post hoc rationalizations to confirm a bias formed by indoctrination. After all, it wasn’t prophecy that convinced you your gods existed.
You already believed long before you read of any prophecies.
If other religions with other gods have similar prophecies, do you also accept their gods?
Gold isn’t scattered, humiliated, or persecuted during processing is it? Be honest.
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@mikewagner1614
First,if a God created all things, then a god is responsible for slavery.
If god created humans knowing humans would create slavery, god would still be at least in part responsible.
And if the Bible is God’s word, and the Bible makes slavery permissible by law….
Then nothing else you say matters.
Slavery is immoral based on the suffering it causes. And according to doctrine, your god made it permissible by law.
Your god didn’t say do t own people as property the way he said don’t eat shell fish, right?
Could have, but didn’t? Immoral.
Death doesn’t allow for freedom from anything.
You need to stop pretending any of it is real.
By the way, I am open minded on the subject, more so than you are. Enough to not carry presuppositions along when investigating whether or not claims are true,
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@jackkraken3888
It’s OK to have different views. But so what if people don’t respect another person’s decision?
There are many decisions that people make that I personally don’t respect. That doesn’t mean I get to determine what they choose to do.
What does it matter whether a husband and wife engage in any activity, if they’re consenting adults? That would be between them.
If a couple doesn’t want to engage in any activity, they can choose not to. If one chooses to, and the other chooses not to, that issue is between them.
And that, for example, would include extra marital affairs, which is probably far more common than porn or SW.
What is it about SW that is a grey area? Of course, if you’re not in agreement with it, you’re free not to engage, right? But shouldn’t consenting adults be allowed to choose? If some people don’t like it or respect it, whose problem is that?
Again, we may not agree on things, but that is OK. Thanks again for being respectful. ✌️
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@samuelakpan3499
Whatever you think God does has the same explanatory power as magic.
Consider, if a God existed, he could have prevented the fall all together, right? But you’re saying God preferred for the man to suffer, right?
And what of all the people God allows to fall, or wills to fall, who don’t survive?
So when you sayGod works through other people, that is like saying $5 plus a God will get you a cup of coffee. When really all you need is the $5.
In this case, God didn’t prevent the fall, and good people did what good people do. No God required. No God demonstrated.
Remember, if you’re going to count the hits, you need to count the misses.
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@karenlee3372
Have you noticed all,the good people do as well?
So,e,people,dedicate their entire lives to studying immunology in order to create vaccines and save lives.
Some people dedicate their lives to other medical science, so save lives.
Yes, there is a lot,of crazy, and a lot of terrible things that happen.
However, please consider…
Throughout all of history, there has never been a time where society has had better access to food, medicine, education, and freedom.
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@ambrossmbunga4664
So, your conclusion is that my position is based on fear of it being real?
You just proved why you’re wrong and I am right.
You form conclusions without evidence that warrants the conclusions.
You believe in magic, yet you have no evidence for such a conclusion. Yes, I am biased towards true beliefs, and biased against false ones.
Put the Bible aside, and you have nothing to support your claims. Even with the Bible, you have nothing to support your claims.
You don’t even understand that truth comports with reality. So, something isn’t true to me or true to you…it is either true or it is not.
And you know here were you’re wrong? There is no evidence any gods exist, yet I still have meaning in my life.
As for morality….you literally worship the god of slavery. So I win the moral argument because slavery itself is immoral.
Now, I know you’re probably emotional and angry. But you didn’t bother to even look at the evidence. If you’re interested in honest dialog, let me know.
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@dgsrks102030
At least ten studies have confirmed the benefit of universal masking in community level analyses: in a unified hospital system,42 a German city,43 two U.S. states,44, 45 a panel of 15 U.S. states and Washington, D.C.,46, 47 as well as both Canada48 and the U.S. 49-51 nationally. Each analysis demonstrated that, following directives from organizational and political leadership for universal masking, new infections fell significantly. Two of these studies46, 47 and an additional analysis of data from 200 countries that included the U.S.51 also demonstrated reductions in mortality. Another 10-site study showed reductions in hospitalization growth rates following mask mandate implementation 49. A separate series of cross-sectional surveys in the U.S. suggested that a 10% increase in self-reported mask wearing tripled the likelihood of stopping community transmission.53 An economic analysis using U.S. data found that, given these effects, increasing universal masking by 15% could prevent the need for lockdowns and reduce associated losses of up to $1 trillion or about 5% of gross domestic product.47
Two studies have been improperly characterized by some sources as showing that surgical or cloth masks offer no benefit. A community-based randomized control trial in Denmark during 2020 assessed whether the use of surgical masks reduced the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers (personal protection) by more than 50%. Findings were inconclusive,54 most likely because the actual reduction in infections was lower. The study was too small (i.e., enrolled about 0.1% of the population) to assess whether masks could decrease transmission from wearers to others (source control). A second study of 14 hospitals in Vietnam during 2015 found that cloth masks were inferior to surgical masks for protection against clinical upper respiratory illness or laboratory-confirmed viral infection.55 The study had a number of limitations including the lack of a true control (no mask) group for comparison, limited source control as hospitalized patients and staff were not masked, unblinded study arm assignments potentially biasing self-reporting of illness, and the washing and re-use of cloth masks by users introducing the risk of infection from self-washing. A follow up study in 2020 found that healthcare workers whose cloth masks were laundered by the hospital were protected equally as well as those that wore medical masks.56
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@PhilSophia-ox7ep
You can’t be honest here. Which proves my position about morality. I never suggested I disagreed with your original comment, other than it’s not your morals they are to model or teach. And no, I do not in any way disagree with her content. Another example of you being dishonest, suggesting you know what I believe better than I do.
Yea, institutions limit free will even if you agree to abide by the rules. Yes, you’re free not to work there but if you choose to work there, your free will is limited. This is clear that her free will to do OF or SW is limited, by your own admission.
You’ve demonstrated you’re against free will, and want to control what other people do, as well as inferior morals, and repeatedly being dishonest. All truths you repeatedly demonstrate.
My moral model is superior to your own. I can’t say you’re mentally undeveloped, but you’ve lost this argument and have been unable to learn anything here. Even suggesting I’ve had too many teachers like her demonstrate your moral inferiority. You’re done here.
I wish you well, and hope you can learn to be a better person. Do t take it personally, just do better.
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@jackkraken3888
I think most people’s models for morality are cultural, so while we may not remember specific lessons from teachers, we do pick up a lot from the world around us…and for students, that means during school.
What is taught about morals seems vague and doesn’t address the specifics of OF or SW. When I search for core values taught in schools, I find honesty, integrity, empathy, compassion, responsibility, and respect. What I don’t see if how or why holding a second job such as the one she does would go against any of this, or how her engaging in this would circumvent such teachings.
I understand others may hold different opinions, but I think it is fair to question why.
Thanks for a reasonable and respectful response. ✌️😎👍
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@smp6441
Existence shouldn’t be considered “creation” until you can demonstrate a creator. And you can’t.
So existence is not evidence of a creator. It’s just evidence of existence.
Nature declares only natural processes, not magic.
Again, I remind you…don’t make claims about your God unless you can demonstrate your God.
Remember, Muslims, Mormons, Hindus, Pagans, can all make special pleading claims that their gods are responsible.
And like you, they can offer no evidence.
What do I have to lose by praying? My dignity. But you’re making another critical error. I once believed, for poor reasons.
I believed. I attended Seminary. I’m certain you never attended Seminary. You’ve never studied the Bible or its history like I have.
Yes, you’ve been alone with your imaginary friend.
But I dare you to pray and ask your God what would convince me he exists. See, I’ve already done that and have confirmed no response and more than fourty years.
Now, you could ask him what would convince me. Let’s see what he says. Ask him, and let me know. If he exists, and if he is right (and how could he be wrong), then you can tell me and I will then be convinced. He should know claims made without evidence should not be accepted.
Now, are you willing to ask…or are you already thinking of excuse why that can’t work?
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@dougdimmadomeownerofthedim2918
You couldn’t even be honest enough to answer a simple hypothetical question.
You still haven’t. Of course you missed the point! You’ve tried to avoid answering from the word go.
And that’s OK. You’re just not intellectually honest enough to do so.
And look at you now. You can “positively” say you know the reason for my actions, even better than I do. Brilliant.
You’re so desperate to find a way to give an answer to a different question, you can’t even be honest enough to give one.
I wasn’t trying to “score a point”, but clearly that was your intent from the beginning.
No, we didn’t both fail. You’re the only one here still (1) unwilling to answer the question, (2) the inability to demonstrate a shred of intellectual honesty.
If you were ever interested in honest dialog, you’d have answered the question instead of trying to shoehorn your alternative thought experiments.
Yes, your questions could make for different or additional conversation, but you neglected to address the original concept.
Which, you admit you still don’t even know what it was.
Normally, I’d be happy to have a more in depth conversation. But you started off with as hominems, dishonesty, and a refusal to even answer.
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@davidtherwhanger6795
That isn’t a proper way to engage in discourse, if you expect honest dialog….which I now assume you do not. You have an opportunity to show me otherwise, however. Do you care to explain the purpose of your question?
Ethics, or moral philosophy, is a branch of philosophy that involves systematizing, defending, and recommending concepts of right and wrong behavior. Morality, the differentiation of intentions, decisions and actions between those that are distinguished as proper and those that are improper.
I don’t think objective morality can be demonstrated. Can you prove to me that hunger, pain, or favorite flavors of ice cream exist?
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@crabbypattie
There is no reason to conclude any God or gods exist. But according to doctrine he drowned babies and OK’d slavery.
Do you not understand what * according to doctrine* means?
So, no, there is no good,reason to believe any god exists, but if you’re going by the Bible, the god you’re convinced exists, and the god you worship, according to the doctrine, would be immoral.
Why are parents protesting CRT if it is being taught in schools?
Because, like you, they’ve been radicalized to believe things based on misinformation.
This is the difference between an evidence based world view, and emotion based world view.
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@crabbypattie
Yes, some people who don’t understand Moses was a fictional character assert that Moses wrote part of the Bible, including details about his own death.
You’re still very confused, and apparently not very bright. Darth Vader isn’t real, but his character is immoral based on the fiction.
The seminary doesn’t have to show me that God does not exist. People that claim a god exists own a burden of proof they can not meet.
And yes, of course I know more than just slavery and drowning babies. But you’re not at the level to even address those two subjects.
Now you’re claiming god created the universe. But you know you can’t demonstrate or prove that is true, or anything beyond fiction.
What evidence would you offer for such a claim?
Of course I know more than any god that doesn’t exist. Simple logic. And since your claims can’t be demonstrated to be true, there is no reason to believe them.
Are you impaired?
If God created man in his image, god would certainly be immoral. Also, we would have to be invisible, or god is a great ape, right? Lol
Instead of just repeating your indoctrinated garbage, try some level of critical thought.
So you think slavery is moral? How about drowning babies?
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@crabbypattie
If you have children, do you have a right to destroy them?
The answer is no. Might makes right, is your argument. And it would still be immoral.
Rights are granted and supported by humans. So no, your imaginary friend has no rights.
Don’t tell me whether to be condescending when you’ve been nothing short of condescending from the start, hypocrite.
Oh, yeah…and god made everything but didn’t put a fence around the fruit. If you leave a child alone with a loaded gun, you’re responsible if the child pulls the trigger. Not only that, but if the tree was tree of,knowledge of good and evil, then they couldn’t have know it was wrong until after they had eaten it.
Lol. So many holes in the plot.
Yeah, you’re not arguing whether or not it is fiction be sue you have no ground to stand on.
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@crabbypattie
Nowhere in the U.S. Constitution does it say our rights come from any god or gods.
I understand the concept, it just isn’t true. Nor can you demonstrate any god or gods exist, which is obviously too,deep,for you to comprehend.
The Adam character may have known Gods character according to the myth, but couldn’t have known good from evil before eating from the tree.
God could have created a fence, but didn’t. God created man exactly in the way that man would choose to eat the fruit?
Again, if you leave a child alone in a room with a loaded gun, it’s your fault if the child reaches the gun.
You don’t need to try to explain the story to me, child. I attended Seminary, and you haven’t applied any critical thinking.
You are just here defending immoral actions of a fictional being.
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@mikeglaspey4562
Data over dogma.
MSNBC averaged 1.22 million, up 2%, and CNN posted 582,000, down 19%.
In the adults 25-54 demo, Fox News averaged 212,000, down 38%, while CNN posted 125,000, down 27% and MSNBC had 124,000, down 6%.
Smells like your diapers need changing, little guy.
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@avenue8822
Weird that you still don’t understand, after it was explained to you…
This isn’t about sidewalks, roadsides, stadiums, or soccer games.
This is about separation of government and religion.
If coach want to become a priest, pastor, preacher, or whatever else….he has the freedom to do so.
Just not in schools.
Common sense is a low standard. I’m referring to law, not common sense.
Previous courts cases have already decided. What you’re looking forward to is more corruption, and violation of our Constitution.
Here is a little test for you….
Our First Amendment guarantees religious freedom, correct? We can worship as we choose, we have the right to do so, would you agree?
If myself,or anyone else said you’re not allowed to freely worship, but you must worship according to our beliefs, not yours…
Would that be unconstitutional? Would that go against fundamental American freedom?
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Sure, you can make an argument that the Bible,calls,for,public prayer.
But the Bible says otherwise.
Matthew 6:5-15
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
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@dougcox3440
When someone says “wake up”, it’s usually because they’re very very stupid.
I think that applies to you here.
You have no science education, right? Zero? Right?
You have no understanding about immunology, right?
If you had data to support your bullshit, we wouldn’t be disagreeing.
So, who interfere with the happiness of the more than half a million people that died?
In the U.S., there was a 16% increase in deaths in 2020 over 2019, due to Covid.
So your version of things doesn’t match reality.
Also, creationism is a myth, evolution is fact.
The earth is a sphere, not flat.
The virus was never a hoax and injecting bleach was always a very bad idea.
Your god isn’t real either.
Go back for,your GED, perhaps.
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@RawHeat100
I’m aware who Darwin is. The point is, Darwin’s original concept has matured.
But your insistence that evolution is “only a theory” reveals that you’re not even scientifically literate to understand that a scientific theory is the highest level a scientific inquiry can reach, and it is dependent upon facts. It is a model based on the best available evidence. It isn’t just some guess. And it isn’t based on faith whatsoever.
The problem here is that you’re putting your beliefs before even your own understanding. This is why religion is harmful. You’re dead set against believing facts.
And only,to,preserve another belief which you can’t demonstrate is true, and for which you cannot provide evidence to warrant belief.
So, you’re,relying on faith,..which you openly admit is faulty and inferior, and you’re trying to saddle science with using an unreliable method.
But again, science doesn’t depend on faith,
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@jasonbaptiste2257
I think I understand how you feel about being rejected. I experience this too. Of course, our experiences may have similarities, and significant differences.
But I would ask that you question yourself on your assertion “there can’t be any other reason why I was so rejected”. Why would you assume there could be no other reasons? There could be many reasons why you felt rejected, or were rejected. I wouldn’t presume to know what those reasons could be. But believing there could only be one reason, and that reason is because of a God, sounds like a very narrow viewpoint. Especially if you’re also using that as justification for also believing in that God in the first place. It becomes circular reasoning.
Would you be rejected by current friends and family if you turned away from your beliefs?
More importantly, would that be good reason to conclude whether or not a God actually exists?
Don’t feel bad for replying late. There are no time limits in the comment section. If I don’t see your post immediately, I will likely see it later on.
Another thing I can offer to think about, regardless whether or not any God exists; Try not to get hung up on being a nice guy, or likable guy. That may be why you felt or were rejected. Try to be an interesting guy. Or a complicated guy. Or a successful guy. Or even a mysterious guy. There is probably a reason for the saying “nice guys finish last”.
I’m not advocating for being an awful person, though. And if you were truly likable by the standards of those around you, I doubt you’d be feeling rejected.
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@universalpatriot4481
It seems you don’t understand what atheism is.
Nothing I science demonstrates any god exists.
You’re just depending upon confirmation bias.
What we have evidence for in science are the following, in order…
Quantum fields, physics, chemistry, biology, physical brains, then consciousness.
You’re beliefs out consciousness before all of these, and you do so with zero empirical evidence.
My model is in alignment with scientific evidence, which happens to be our more reliable method to measure reality.
I’d ask you to demonstrate any god exists, but we both know you can’t. This isn’t about stubbornness.
If you could demonstrate a god, I’d change my mind.
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@maryhamric
Sure, if you’re rejecting what it says in the Bible. And you’re denying the Bible is doctrine.
You’re intentionally misrepresenting what I said. Probably because your beliefs make you dishonest.
I didn’t say there is a command by God to enslave people. What I said was God made slavery permissible by his own laws.
And beating slaves was also lawfully permitted, according to what is says in the Bible, both in Exodus and in Leviticus.
Maybe read your Bible.
But yes, God did command neighboring tribes be slaughtered, the men, women, and boys. But he did also command the virgin gives be takes as slaves.
So, you’re wrong about that too.
And yes, in the Noah’s flood story, God was angry at his own failure. So angry, he drowned babies. According to the doctrine of the Bible.
And that is who you worship.
Yeah, you’re skeptical of my claims, and you have an imaginary friend.
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@maryhamric
The Bible came from doctrine and is considered doctrine.
But still, according to the Bible, God made slavery permissible by his,own laws. Do you deny this?
And still, according to the Bible, God drowned babies.
You’re still dodging the issue. Sure, if you don’t want to call,it doctrine, even when it is…you’re still just denying the facts.
And you’re still worshipping an immoral, even if imaginary, being.
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@terriv9002
Jesus is portrayed as being dead and in the tomb for a given length time, but how long?
Mark 10:34—Jesus says he will “rise again” after “three days.”
Matthew 12:40—Jesus says he will be in the earth “three days and three nights...”
No resurrection narrative describes Jesus as being in a tomb for three full days, or for three days and three nights.
Would the Romans have guarded Jesus’ tomb?
Matthew 27:62-66—A guard is stationed outside the tomb the day after Jesus’ burial
Mark, Luke, John—No guard is mentioned. In Mark and Luke, the women who approach the tomb do not appear to expect to see any guards
It was tradition to anoint a person’s body after they died. Who anointed Jesus and when?
Mark 16:1-3, Luke 23:55-56—A group of women who were at Jesus’ burial come back later to anoint his body
Matthew—Joseph wraps the body, and the women come the next morning, but no mention is made of anointing Jesus
John 19:39-40—Joseph of Arimathea anoints Jesus’ body before burial
The women visiting Jesus’ tomb is central to the resurrection story, but who visited?
Mark 16:1—Three women visit Jesus’ tomb: Mary Magdalene, a second Mary, and Salome
Matthew 28:1—Two women visit Jesus’ tomb: Mary Magdalene and another Mary
Luke 24:10—At least five women visit Jesus’ tomb: Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, Joanna, and “other women.”
John 20:1—One woman visits Jesus’ tomb: Mary Magdalene. She later fetches Peter and another disciple
Do you need more?
Meanwhile, still not one single first hand claim for witnessing a resurrected Jesus, either.
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@JohnDoe-ew3xt
What is absurd is that you’re a one trick pony, parroting rhetoric, and have no level of scientific understanding.
You have absolutely zero qualifications, but have an over inflated sense of confidence which simply isn’t warranted.
Even in your argument you feel a need to build a path for your explanation, as you cannot convert any concepts simplistically.
You’ve even posed questions you’d already have answers to, if you really understood the science.
So, you’re not qualified by any stretch, but deny it based on arguments from ignorance.
The argument was over before it started, and you lost.
Yes, there are natural,events which can contribute to climate change, and the are contributions to climate change by humanity.
If humanity can increase impact on the climate, it can also reduce it. Mentioning the cost/benefit analysis doesn’t come into play until you have an understanding of the science, which you reject, based on bias and ignorance. Just like most of your world view.
All you’re doing is demonstrating you haven’t bothered to even look into the questions, and spent less time understanding the science.
Like I said, you were done before you started.
Now, as for your understanding of the scientific theory of evolution….you’ve dodge that, little pony.
How about the nerf toss questions?
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@theglenlivet3372
The comparison fails at many levels, which have been pointed out.
They’re not being punished for exercising their freedom. They’re also free to get the vaccine.
They’re deny the most cost effective and efficient means of medicine, and opting to put other people’s lives at risk both by being at higher risk of spreading the virus, but also by risking taking an ICU bed where people who need other urgent surgery and then denied due to an overwhelmed system.
They’re not denied their freedom, but their choices have consequences.
Yes, there are other lifestyles that endanger lives. Such as driving under the influence, and we mandate against that.
However, if you’re comparing a lifestyle of questionable eating habits which take 50 years to create an impact, versus a virus which takes days, you’re engaging in an equivocation fallacy, and doing so against the advise of medical experts.
If the only reason they deny the vaccine is because they are free to do so, their choice is unethical and immoral.
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@bmass0828
You don’t even know what an ad hominem attack is. And pointing out that you don’t know what an ad hominem is, isn’t an ad hominem attack.
Again, argument from ignorance.
I have friends, but I don’t have any friends believe in their reality as if it were a religion, except for my religious friends.
I don’t believe in fake things. And that, in part, is because I don’t rely on faith of any kind.
Faith is the active practice of self deception. So no, I don’t rely on faith…and that is exactly why I can be critical of,people lie, you who don’t use reliable methods to measure reality.
I’m not your sweetie, and your post shows you’re not a critical thinker. Plus, I enjoy getting believers to deny their god. So thanks for that.
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@joecancer6013
First, I never suggested that if I created a baby, I could kill it. Quite the opposite.
But you’re not answering the question. Why would it matter if creating the child requires only,one person versus two?
I’m not claiming to be a god. The argument is, if you create a person that has autonomy, and allegedly with free will, what would give anyone rights over that person’s life?
And more to the point, an all powerful, all knowing, all loving god couldn’t think,of a better way to manage his anger and decided to drown pregnant women and babies, according to the doctrine. It seems he did this for his own pleasure, right?
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@bwrog1775
If God is good, why would he need anyone to,worship him?
If God is outside of time, then he exists for no amount of time, right?
If God is beyond your comprehension, how can you make any assertions about his existence?
Yes, I just think you’re wrong. You, however, think I am wrong * and* deserving of eternal torment. An unjust and immoral punishment.
Which makes my position morally superior.
However, your dichotomy is false. What if the God you’re convinced exists doesn’t exist, but some other God does exist?
Also…if there is no afterlife, people won’t be wrong for eternity. They’ll only be wrong as long as they exist.
What you’re missing is that you’re going to be wrong during the only life we know we have. And during that time you’re going to believe other people are deserving of eternal torment. You’re willfully impairing your own moral compass.
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@mikespg
First of all, the universe came into existence, it wasn’t created. However, nobody is claiming the universe came in to existence from “nothing”.
The only people that say that are believers. Believers who thing God came into existence from nothing, apparently.
So no…don’t tell me what I believe, because you’re wrong. You’re arguing against something I don’t believe, and never claimed.
Yes, we have evidence that builders build buildings. We have evidence that painters paint paintings. We don’t have evidence of your imaginary friend doing anything. How foolish to not recognize that.
Again, you’re lacking a basic understanding of what science is, how it works, and what we know through science.
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@denisesurber8176
Don’t be ridiculous. You don’t owe me an explanation, and I never said you did. But here you are, trying to offer an explanation by suggesting you just believe the fiction is real, but without having any reason to conclude magic is real.
I never mentioned anything about a flat earth, but you obviously already are aware your belief in a magic sky daddy is equallly as absurd.
And of course, if I simply point out the logical contradictions which make your god impossible, you wouldn’t be able to accept it. Because your needs are emotional, and not based on facts. But worse, you probably aren’t aware of what the Bible,says for the most part.
I mean, you’re the one here who believes in the God who made slavery permissible by his own laws….at least, according to the Bible.
Oh, and he also drowned babies out of anger over his own failures. Oh, and snakes and donkeys could talk?
But you need proof they don’t?
And you lack any understanding of science, as the earth wasn’t formed in under six days.
Oh sure, my posts didn’t matter…so you’re here crying and repeatedly posting fallacious arguments.
So why are you here, trying desperately to ruin my joy, and being king hypocrite?
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@denisesurber8176
So your standard for accepting a belief is whether or not you can prove a negative.
Which means, until you prove Big Foot,isn’t real, you believe it is.
And the same goes for Zeus, Thor, Odin, Allah, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, aliens in your closet.
Wow, you have some crazy beliefs, believer.
Let me know when and how you proved all of these don’t exist.
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@snowwhite7704
Hey Snow White, first…I want a face to face introduction to your “god”, as you suggested in your previous post, which you apparently chose to delete.
Unless deleting that is an admission you were wrong.
Now, as for,your straw man argument; CRT wasn’t being taught in schools, and you thought it was and cried cried cried about it.
If LGBTQ is mentioned in schools outside of curriculum, you cry cry cry about that too.
If a student mentions they have two moms or two days, you want that child sent to prison. Why?
Just the same, if your cry baby child mentions your god, the god of slavery, it becomes a serious problem.
Now, troll…if and when you’re able,to engage in intellectual discourse, let me know.
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@geoffreyk6229
You keep saying that, but you do so with completely incredulity.
A scientific theory is the highest level a concept can reach. No other field of study has as much evidence than the scientific theory of evolution.
A scientific theory, by the way, is a model based on demonstrable facts.
Is there a lot to be answered? Sure. Is evolution still fact? Yes. We may discover more details, but those details won’t reverse everything we know about evolution. It won’t erase what we already know about DNA.
When you say no scientists claim to be proven, this means that you have never bothered to study this field of science.
Science wouldn’t use a term like “proven” to begin with. We can demonstrate facts. We have witnessed evolution in laboratories, and in the wild.
We can see it in the fossil record and in DNA sequencing.
This is a great example of how religion poisons everything. You are flat out rejecting science, when you don’t have the first clue what science is, says, or how it works.
And you do so in order to preserve religious beliefs.
You argue science and religion are compatible, but you don’t even know what science is, says, or how it works.
Then you argue that science doesn’t say what science does say, because you simply don’t know better, and have no understanding of science.
Maybe you should start there. Take some time and find out what the scientific theory of evolution is. Then, come back.
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@EbonyPope
Do you realize that the less religious a society, the better off it is? All the data shows this.
And no, I do not believe you have data that supports your claim that gay parents usually fare worse.
Children with gay, lesbian, transgender or other sexual minority parents fare as well as, or better than, children with parents of the opposite sex, according to research published in BMJ Global Health, further undermining a common but unsupported argument against equal marriage and adoption as a growing number of states enact laws curtailing LGBT+ rights.
So, right from the start you’re both dishonest and wrong. You didn’t even bother to look at data.
But look,up how more religious states have more violent crime and murder, more STDs, more infant mortality, and teenage pregnancy, and lower education.
The rest of your rant is nonsense when you start with bold lies.
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@Trump2PrisonOn34Counts
I don’t need your advice, especially on substance abuse.
So, since you can’t prove Zeus, Odin, Thor, the Easter Bunny, and the FMS don’t exist, that warrants beliefs they do?
This is your best argument? So, Allah, and Vishnu must exist, because you can’t prove they don’t, and as such it becomes rational to believe they do?
So, you’re admitting to be MAGA and not care whether or not the election was really stolen..
So long as you believe it.
I notice you couldn’t even give a single straight answer. All you did was argue for irrational beliefs, and fallacious reasoning.
lol. Weak.
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FreePalestine-qj6zn
Depends on which God.
Now, try to follow along….
If you suggest your God has attributes that are in conflict, it could make the God claim logically impossible.
For example, if you’re arguing for a God with the tri-Omni properties, or a God that was a married bachelor…
The logical impossibility would demonstrate the God could not exist, at least unless you first change the attributes.
However, and try to follow here too…
If people claim Vishnu, Odin, Allah, Zeus, Thor and Big Foot exist..
Do we have to prove they all don’t exist?
Or are you telling me you believe they all exist, because you can’t prove they don’t?
It’s called owning the burden of proof.
You believe in a God that nobody can ever demonstrate exists. I don’t accept the claims of people who are convinced a God exists, but can’t ever demonstrate it.
So…you’ve just admitted you can’t demonstrate your God exists. Which makes your God like Big Foot.
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FreePalestine-qj6zn
Wow. You’re slow.
Does the God you believe in have the properties of omnipotence, omniscient, and Omni present?
God is sometimes described as omnipotent, meaning all-powerful; omniscient, meaning all-knowing; and omnipresent, meaning present everywhere at all times.
If so, your God is a logical impossibility, which proves he doesn’t exist. So yes, I can demonstrate he doesn’t exist.
Of course, the God you believe in could be mostly evil…
And again…now based on your,own argument….you believe Unicorns, Big Foot, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster exist…
Because YOU can’t prove they don’t.
Say hello to Big Foot for me.
You apparently don’t care whether what you believe is true.
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@jgdecaro1
So, you worship the god of slavery….
Exodus 21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
…
Phinehas (commissioned by Moses and Phinehas' father Eleazar) waged a war against the Midianites, killing all men and boys including their five kings, and taking all livestock, women and girls captive. Moses instructed the soldiers to kill all women who had ever had sex with a man, and to keep the women and girls who were still virgins for themselves. The spoils of war were then divided between the Israelite civilians, soldiers and the god Yahweh.
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@jgdecaro1
Wow, that’s weird. I would never torture someone, or kill someone, or rape someone, or beat someone.
That would be awful. Remember, those things aren’t a sin if your God commands them to be done though…right?
These things would be immoral, of course. Not a sin.
Lying isn’t necessarily immoral either. If you’re hiding Ann Frank, lying to Nazis about whether she is hiding in the attack isn’t immoral.
Torturing someone…like eternal torment for temporal crimes is immoral. Not a sin. So Hell is immoral.
So, you’ve just demonstrated your God is immoral, even if it is imaginary. And so are you, for worshipping it.
We know castles are built by humans. We have examples of that happening.
We have evidence of George Washington existing. Claims about George Washington aren’t supernatural claims.
Wind can be measured and explained through natural processes.
Whether something happened in history isn’t dependent on whether or not I witnessed it.
Houses and paintings are known to be created by humans and we have inductive evidence to support those claims.
We know and can demonstrate humans exist.
Trees, animals are biological, and have natural explanations. Water and dirt also have natural explanations.
What we don’t have any evidence of are minds or consciousness resulting from anything other than a physical brain.
See, we do have evidence of quantum fields, then laws of physics, then chemistry, then biology, then physical brains, then consciousness.
What you don’t have evidence of is a mind or consciousness resulting prior to the rest.
I’ve just defeated every point in your rant.
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@jgdecaro1
Your communication needs improvement. Don’t tell me that I made a decision to sell myself into slavery.
That is false and poor communication. You’re referring to those who engaged in indentured servitude.
And like I said before, this wasn’t the only form of slavery. There was also chattel slavery as well.
People would be owned for life, and passed down as property as an inheritance.
This wouldn’t be indentured servitude. This would be chattel slavery.
Besides that, read it again more closely…
If a person owned a man and women as slaves, and the woman had children…
The man would be released after six years. Or the man could chose to stay.
The women would not be released after six years.
But also, if those slaves had children, the children were not indentured servants paying off a debt.
The children would be owned as property. Slaves for life.
And they could be beaten according to your immoral God’s laws.
When a daughter is sold into slavery, she made a choice? Or did her father?
When God says purchase slaves from the heathens around you, you’re certain those were all indentured servants? How?
Laws for indentured servants applied only to Hebrews, which is another fact that dismantles your argument.
You worship the God,of slavery, even if that god is fiction.
That makes both you and your god immoral.
Now, do,you want to address the fact that, according to doctrine, your god drown pregnant women and babies?
Also, immoral.
Do you want to address the fact that external torment for temporal crimes are both unjust and immoral?
What you are saying goes against what the doctrine actually says.
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@
The Bible makes claims of eyewitness testimonies. Claims are not evidence. There are NO first hand claims from any eye witnesses. Only hearsay.
When someone reports that they were told by another person that 500 people witnessed a resurrected Jesus, it isn’t evidence it is hearsay.
If beating up a toddler is immoral, then it most certainly,would be immoral to drown babies in a flood.
God doesn’t exist, so morality can’t come from a God. And you’ve never considered the Euthyphro dilemma?
And nobody is claiming something came from nothing, except for believers…because God doesn’t exist. So when you say anything came from God,you’re saying something from nothing. The Big Bang doesn’t suggest something came from nothing. All,you’re doing here is revealing you’re ignorant of science. A singularity isn’t nothing. Maybe read some other books and get a clue.
If you’re gong to pray, ask God to tell you what would convince me that God exists. He should know, right? When he fails to provide a correct answer, maybe you will realize imaginary beings aren’t all knowing.
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@kingrobotnik6950
lol. Here we go. Just because YOU personally don’t understand the science behind time and space, sentience in humans, dreams, birth and death, and reality itself…just because YOU personally never earned an education, doesn’t mean the magic sky daddy you were taught to believe in is the answer.
This is fallacious reasoning, and an attempt to shift the burden of proof.
Nobody claimed the world is just raw chaos. It clearly isn’t as I am here able to type this post. Yet YOU still can’t offer any demonstration of a God, and you can only offer a demonstration of your personal lack,of understanding and incredulity.
It’s weird that you already know there are laws against murder, yet the laws pre-existed your God’s magical book, in many places.
You’re just making claims with nothing to back them. You’re just not smart enough to even have this conversation,,but here we are.
There IS indeed order, structure, and we make whatever justice there will be. No God or gods are around to do this.
But you tried to make a point about justice? What a joke. Your ideology includes the concept of Hell.
Heel, the very concept is unjust. Eternal torment for a temporal action can NEVER be just, and can NEVER be moral.
Yes, a murderer should go to jail. Not only is murder unjust and immoral, but your ideology lets murderers go free if they ask you imaginary friend for forgiveness.
That isn’t just, or moral.
Oh yeah,..now you claim somebody hurt me, lol. Because you can’t defend your own position. Because YOU don’t have evidence to support your beliefs.
Obviously you’ve been hurt, and whoever hurt you used religion to do so.
I understand good and evil, right and wrong better than YOU do. After all, you’re the one worshipping an all powerful, all knowing being…that couldn’t figure out a better way to manage his own anger,,over his own failures….than to drown babies. So YOU don’t know it is wrong to drown babies, and you worship the imaginary being that does. So my model,of morality is superior to yours.
Oh, by the way, you’re trying to use your subjective belief in a god as an objective model, which you can’t do.
First, your belief is subjective, second, if a God existed, your God’s beliefs would also be subjective.
And he made slavery permissible by law… which is also unjust and immoral.
Wake up and realize, you’ve been indoctrinated with lies. Real magic is fake. Fake magic is real. The same applies to your God.
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@kingrobotnik6950
Time and space are part of the same field which came into existence after the expansion we refer to as the Big Bang. No God required. No education in cosmology, I see. Sentience in humans resulted from evolution, and yes…other animals have different levels of sentience. You don’t already know this?
No biology education, I see. Dreams are a natural process of the brain. Not magic. Birth is a result of evolution, and death is a limitation of our biology.
Again, no gods required. You’re clearly,the one here with no thoughts. It’s a shame. You could over come that. Are you still,in junior high school?
Something you’ve never considered: every example we have of consciousness results from a physical brain.
See, energy has always existed. After the Big Bang came physics, then chemistry, then biology, then brains, then consciousness.
What we don’t have is evidence of your imaginary friend’s magical floating consciousness which doesn’t require a physical brain, physics, chemistry, or biology.
Which is what you’re claiming. Without evidence to support your claim.
So, if you see hoof prints in the snow….you’re going to cry and say it must be the result of a unicorn. All I’m saying is your solution is imaginary, where horses exist.
And it is far more likely a horse created the good prints…because they exist. And your unicorn doesn’t, as far as you can show. Start thinking.
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@DarkenedProphecy
I asked whether you could demonstrate any God exists, and you said you could. I’d like for you to do so, or to know how you could do so?
Adding additional claims only makes your job more difficult. I’m not interested in whether you think,your imaginary friend loves me, or whether you think there is any value in that.
If you’re going to pray for me anyway, maybe ask your God what information would change my mind.
If he exists, he would know what it would take to change my mind, right? Well, let’s find out.
If he tells you, and you tell me, then you and I will both be convinced.
Now, are you willing to do this? Or do you already know for a fact this won’t work?
This isn’t about “opinion” so sorry if I don’t respect it. Sure, i respect you have your own opinion. I don’t respect your opinion. There is a difference.
I don’t respect the opinion of the KKK for example, and i hope you wouldn’t either. But again, I don’t ask your opinion, I asked if you could demonstrate that a God exists. You said “Yes I can”, right? Will you, please?
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@danbarker611
You’re half way there. Good on you. You’ve figured out that it is likely energy (not matter) has always existed. Science shows us, as far as we know, energy can never be created or destroyed. So, it is likely energy has aw always existed. The key here is that we can demonstrate energy does indeed exist. When building a model regarding existence, the model built upon something we can demonstrate exists is superior to the model which depends upon something we don’t know exists.
For example, if we see hoof prints on the snow…suggesting they were made by a horse is a better model than saying they were made by a unicorn.
You see?
Now, what can be demonstrated to exist includes quantum fields, physics, chemistry, biology, physical brains, and then consciousness.
Specially in that order. And the only examples of consciousness we have result from those physical brains, based upon physics, chemistry and biology.
So when you assert a God exists, you’re asserting consciousness prior to physics, chemistry, biology, and a physical brain. You see?
Your model is flawed.
Yes, we have examples of paintings and painters.
We have examples of buildings and builders.
However we also have examples of things forming through natural processes.
What we don’t have any examples of is a creator. You don’t get to call existence a creation when there is no “creator”.
At least none that can be demonstrated to exist.
You see?
Think about this…when offering attributes for a God, consider whether these attributes are simply asserted, or if they can be demonstrated.
If you’re honest, you’ll see…any attribute you assign to a God can only be asserted, and can never be demonstrated.
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Palpatine
Lol, way to blatantly demonstrate your incredulity.
Poor believer.
The Omicron variant is a variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. As of December 2021, it is the newest variant. It was first reported to the World Health Organization (WHO) from South Africa on 24 November 2021. On 26 November 2021, the WHO designated it as a variant of concern and named it "Omicron", the fifteenth letter in the Greek alphabet.
Omicron variant and other major or previous variants of concern of SARS-CoV-2 depicted in a tree scaled radially by genetic distance, derived from Nextstrain on 1 December 2021
The variant has an unusually large number of mutations, several of which are novel and a significant number of which affect the spike protein targeted by most COVID-19 vaccines at the time of the discovery of the Omicron variant. This level of variation has led to concerns regarding its transmissibility, immune system evasion, and vaccine resistance, despite initial reports indicating that the variant causes less serious disease than previous strains. The variant was quickly designated as being "of concern", and travel restrictions were introduced by several countries in an attempt to slow its international spread.
Compared to previous variants of concern, Omicron is believed to be far more contagious (spreading much quicker), and spreads around 70 times faster than any previous variants in the bronchi (lung airways), but it is less able to penetrate deep lung tissue, and perhaps for this reason there is a considerable reduction in the risk of severe disease requiring hospitalisation. However, the extremely high rate of spread, combined with its ability to evade both double vaccination and the body's immune system, means the total number of patients requiring hospital care at any given time is still of great concern.
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@ayoolukoga9829
Maybe some version of Jesus existed. I can grant that, and you still have no evidence for a single supernatural event.
You keep,using an ad hominem, needing to call me “dumb”. This proves your response is emotional, and not intellectual.
Asserting the Apostles met Jesus isn’t relevant to the argument.
Absolutely, the authors of the gospels are anonymous. So no, you don’t have any idea who the authors were.
Further, there is not a single first hand claim to have witnessed a resurrected Jesus. Not one.
Simply claiming there were eye-witnesses is a claim. A claim you cannot demonstrate is true.
Remember, the Bible makes claims. You’d need evidence to support the claims, and you have exactly zero. Zilch. None.
You don’t seem to know what a straw man argument is, either.
Whether early believers trusted other zealots isn’t evidence the claims are true. It’s only evidence they were convinced.
There is exactly zero evidence anywhere, at any time, that supernatural claims are true.
And you can’t verify historical supernatural claims.
Just accept that your confident exceeds warrant.
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@lb7144
If you think requiring evidence is a bad thing, it’s no,wonder you’re convinced.
Faith is the excuse people,use when they don’t have evidence. Sorry, I have higher standards.
Here is the problem with faith; Muslims use it. Hindus use it. Mormons use it. Jews use it.
So how reliable is faith when pursuing truth? It becomes a barrier.
But no, you don’t get to suggest that nothing someone says would convince me.
That is false, and dishonest.
If you believe a God exists, you can ask God what would convince me.
God would know, right? Then just tell me.
Another thing you got wrong….you don’t choose what you believe. You’re either convinced or not.
I doubt you could choose to believe the Hawaiian Islands float seven miles over the mainland.
Is that a belief you can choose? Can you choose to believe God isn’t real? Really? I doubt it.
Helping your neighbor is Nobel, good, beneficial, moral. And doesn’t require a god of any kind.
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@johnnyerm3893
We don’t choose to believe. You can’t choose to believe the Hawaiian Islands float seven miles over the mainland, can you?
You can’t choose to believe your god doesn’t exist, can you? No. You’re convinced. But for poor reasons.
Problems arise in every society, secular or otherwise. Yes, teachings of the Bible…which includes slavery.
And in America, civil war was fought with people using the Bible, on both sides. Yet, the Bible still endorses slavery by doctrine.
I did indeed attend Seminary. They didn’t provide evidence either. That’s the point.
The point is, you’re fully aware you can’t demonstrate any gods exist.
Now, maybe I am wrong. That is possible.
But I am not convinced. I think you’re convinced for poor reasons.
Faith is a bad reason, if you care whether or not your beliefs are true.
And I care whether or not my beliefs are true.
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@marylamb7707
I want to believe I have ten millions dollars in my bank.
I feel like I could use ten million dollars in my bank.
What you’re describing is a delusion.
No, I don’t use faith to conclude no gods exist.
You’re admitting you can’t prove any gods exist, so you admit your beef is irrational.
I can’t prove Big Foot, Unicorns, and Odin don’t exist….so is that good reason to conclude they do?
Humans create life every day through reproduction. And yes, Science CAN and DOES explain it.
So what you’re saying is….you don’t know anything about biology or the scientific theory of evolution.
You say….until it can there will be believers. Which is false, because science does explain it and there are still believers, like you.
Bit what you’re saying here…is that YOU are convinced without evidence, but need evidence to change your belief.
Sorry Mary, your arguments are very much first grade level. And be honest, none of those arguments convinced you a god exists. Right?
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@marylamb7707
I don’t use faith, I think it’s funny, I’ve already corrected you.
I don’t require faith to live my life in the absence of any god.
I don’t have to prove your god doesn’t exist, as can just ask you to prove one does exist and watch you fail.
So resolve this issue:
If faith is valuable, why can every religion use it to justify believing in different gods?
Faith isn’t a pathway to truth. It has no mechanism to differentiate a true belief from a false belief.
But it will artificially raise your confidence in a belief, even if it is false. Which is how you’re using it.
Remember, if you claim a god exists, you own the burden of proof. I don’t have to prove a god doesn’t exist, when you can’t prove one does.
How,is that confusing for you?
Can you prove Allah doesn’t exist? Can you prove Vishnu doesn’t exist?
Oh…you can’t? Ok…so,now you believe in Vishnu?
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@marylamb7707
Do,you know a god exists? Do you know a god created life? The answer is no, you don’t know. You’re convinced,,but if you knew…you wouldn’t require faith and you’d be able to demonstrate it.
That’s the problem with your ilk. You don’t understand, even after it was explained to you again and again, that faith isn’t a pathway to truth.
Which is why you’re not a muslim or a Hindu, en though they use faith.
And no, I don’t assume people,that use faith are backwards or uneducated. I merely point out how unreliable using faith to get to truth is.
If you can’t figure that out, or reject the reality of it to present your magical thinking, that is on you.
Again, the problem here is with your arguments. And if there are problems with your argument, there is a likely problem with your conclusion.
Science happens to be our most reliable method for measuring reality. True that science can’t explain everything. But that doesn’t mean whatever you imagine to be true comports with reality. In fact, the only thing that corrects science is better science. A god never corrects science. Holy books never correct science.
And yes…lol, science can explain the cell. Just because you don’t understand the science doesn’t mean science doesn’t have the answer.
And again…YOU can’t prove any gods exist.
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@andreroy8141
Now you’re a liar.
Exodus 21:1 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
Leviticus 25:44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly
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@andreroy8141
Exodus 21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
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@mikewagner1614
First, we’re not friends, so please don’t pretend we are. It’s dishonest. We can have friendly dialog, of course.
Yes, I have read the entire Bible multiple times. Indeed, I have attended Seminary, I’m familiar with what the claims are.
I reject that there are valid or relevant prophecies in the Bible. So no, the prophecy your refer to isn’t convincing.
You can pray all you like. However, prayers works are about the same rate as chance.
Now, it would benefit you to understand better how reality works, and how we accurately measure it.
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@jeremyhodgkins7005
Sorry, ma’am,
In medical research, sex refers to biological variables that are dependent on chromosomes, and that have unique anatomy and hormone profiles. Gender refers to socially constructed sex attributions, which include behavioral expressions, identity, and differential roles. Sex is usually categorized as male or female, but there is variation in the biological attributes that comprise sex and how those attributes are expressed.
Gender refers to the way we understand and perceive ourselves. For example, if someone is born with male genitalia, and is assigned male sex at birth, but views themselves as female, then their gender identity is female.
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@umaru1942
There isn’t a “both sides” when it comes to medical consensus.
Yes, I provided a list of medical institutions who support trans care. These are part of the consensus, but you don’t understand how that works.
If you want to be convincing regarding solar energy, go back a century and see what the science says.
If you want to understand nuclear fusion, go back a century and see what the science says.
Sorry, I’ll stick with current science, and not use leeches to draw blood.
Whether you agree with science is irrelevant. The consensus of medical science doesn’t care what you believe.
I stand by the experts in the field, and their data.
What I know isn’t relevant. Your lack of a GED doesn’t mean you’re qualified. In fact, you’re not even qualified to defend your own lost ion in this discussion.
So, yes…what I know isn’t relevant…except that I stand with the consensus of experts in their field, and their data.
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@NotAnotherTheory
The consensus prior to the use of the scientific method is hardly relevant. All you’re saying is that when people had less reliable methods, they were wrong more. It’s not a straw man argument, when you’re the one citing the position of people who weren’t even using current standards….and we’re talking about hundreds of years ago.
Pointing out that an atheist disagreed with Darwin means you’re making the same mistake. You’re not using current, more reliable methods and data.
This just shows you lack any actual understanding. The evidence of you lying is every post you’ve made so far.
Also, I didn’t need to, nor did I suggest you were religious. I simply made the point that better science corrects science. And religions don’t. I notice, however, that you didn’t deny being religious either.
Again, if you’re going to continue to lie, and continue to accuse me of harassing you, I’d recommend that you don’t continue to engage.
I mean, you’re crying about “harassment”, but then make another five emotional responses that continue to misrepresent facts.
Meanwhile, you’ve offered nothing to dispute the consensus of medical science.
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@presupping4eva
Special pleading? You clearly don’t understand what that even means.
You can’t demonstrate any truth to,your claims, and are special pleading both the existence of, and any properties associated with your god.
You admit you can’t demonstrate it, but you believe it anyway, which is irrational.
Yet, where there are contradictions to logic, you’re delicately ignoring those aspects, which is the definition of special pleading.
Reason isn’t a result of any god. I’m not presupposing a god, and there you go…telling me what I believe? Lol.
You’re not bearing justification. You’re asking assertions which you already admit are irrational.
Meanwhile, you’re worshipping an Imaginary being who by your own admission is both unjust and immoral.
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@wesss9353
No, that is false.
Just because you don’t have a good education doesn’t mean you can just make up whatever you like.
Accounts of transgender people (including non-binary and third gender people) have been identified going back to ancient times in cultures worldwide. The modern terms and meanings of "transgender", "gender", "gender identity", and "gender role" only emerged in the 1950s and 1960s.
The Ancient Greek, Phrygian, and Roman eunuch priests of the galli order have been interpreted by some scholars as transgender or third-gender. The trans-feminine kathoey and hijra gender roles have persisted for thousands of years in Thailand and the Indian subcontinent, respectively. In Arabia, khanith (like earlier mukhannathun) have occupied a third gender role attested since the 7th century CE. Traditional roles for transgender women and transgender men have existed in many African societies, with some persisting to the modern day. North American Indigenous fluid and third gender roles, including the Navajo nádleehi and the Zuni lhamana, have existed since pre-colonial times.
One more thing…
Trans people actually exist.
You God, not so much.
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@nataneley
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Exodus 21
“Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her[b] for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.
Numbers 31
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
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@andersonmcbride29
You don’t seem to understand. If we don’t have an answer, that doesn’t mean “god did it”.
And since you can’t even demonstrate a god exists, you can’t use god as a possible cause.
We do know quantum fields exist, so it is more probable the Big Bang expanded as a result of a quantum fluctuation.
Now, I’m not saying this is what necessarily happened. And I’m not saying we have evidence that quantum fluctuation was the cause.
Only that it’s a better hypothesis.
Your argument though is circular. It seems you’re saying a god must exist because the universe came into existence, and the reason the universe came into existence was a god.
Again, suggesting a god was the cause isn’t the default. The default, until was know, is that we don’t know.
So, what evidence do,you actually have for the existence of a god now?
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@user-ul7li5mu1s
Free will doesn’t involve believing what you want, as far as I can tell.
For example, can you choose to believe Hawaii floats seven miles over the ocean?
Sure, you can pretend, but can you choose to actually be convinced?
Seeing it may convince you. Hearing stories may convince you. But choosing to believe it doesn’t sound right.
So, while I’m sure you’re likely convinced, are the question is whether you convinced for good reasons or just reasons?
It’s more a matter of using reliable methods, which you can choose to do.
Also, you claim to hurt no one on purpose. This may be true. You may not intend to hurt anyone.
However, hurting yourself or others, even without intent, is it possible you’re still doing so?
I’m not suggesting you are. Just asking thoughtful questions on the topic.
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@bethmiller5347
Self deceit can be harmful. See, one difference between us is…if you could demonstrate a god exists, I could change my mind. You’re insisting that no matter what, your mind could not be changed. And that proves you’re not honest.
Yes, I can explain the origins of man. I could explain the origins to,you, but you’ve already said it doesn’t matter.
Can I explain the Bible and how after all,these years people all over the world believe? Sure, I can, but you’d still adhere to your beliefs, just the same.
As an example, I can make the same argument for Muslim, and Mormon books. People all,over the world believe those too. Right?
That is fallacious reasoning…argument for popularity. But fallacious reasoning isn’t a good reason for you to consider otherwise.
The truth is, you can’t demonstrate your belief is are true.
What harm are you doing? Well, that depends? What harm were believers doing when they fought to keep slavery, based on the God,of the Bible making slavery permissible?
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@pinnacleproductions6275
Gish gallops like this one is an concession. It’s an admission that you’re so,overwhelmed and challenged that you feel a need to throw every conspiracy theory at the wall to see what sticks. Because listing 15 lies takes fifteen seconds, but having to systematically debunk each one would take 15 hours.
So, here is what you need to do now….since you offered…
Provide evidence for each and everyone one of your claims. And no, making more claims isn’t evidence. And pointing to conspiracy theory web sites won’t help you.
No, your weak a/f posts aren’t violent, oh clever one. But your blind support of fascism is a support of violence. And your side are the insurrections, who used unprovoked violence to interfere with democracy.
As for genders, you just revealed that you have no understanding of science, but you get triggered because of your own incredulity. Lol.
You wouldn’t even know what science says about gender. I bet you don’t understand or accept,evolution or the Big Bang. I bet you reject them both because you don’t understand either.
And there you go again, trying to explain things that you don’t know much about, and I know better than you. When I refer to democracy, I am not claiming we are a democracy. But you’re so radicalized, you bust a nut over making a distinction about our being a republic. This is strictly because you’re deflecting from the fact that your side doesn’t support the democracy we utilize.
Lol….wtf does Epstein have to do with anything? Have you neglected to take the proper dosage of your medication? Red herring much?
But since you mentioned it….trump did say Epstein had “great taste” in “women” just like trump, and that he likes them young.
Show me evidence of who won the 2020 presidential election. Start there.
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@Youhitme
If faith is simply beliefs, why call it faith? It seems faith is more of a replacement or sort of false evidence in order to make a conclusion that isn’t warranted.
You’re still dishonest, because I didn’t attack anyone. You did and still are, trying to attack me. And you’re doing so because I reject the idea that faith is a good thing, and probably because I don’t accept your god claims.
Remember, just because you have faith in something doesn’t mean it’s true. If you have to use faith to reach the conclusion, the conclusion is likely to be false.
If you have evidence, you don’t need faith. If you need faith, you don’t have evidence.
Remember, just because people believe Vishnu exists, doesn’t mean Vishnu exists. The same applies for every god claim.
I sincerely hope you stop attacking people based on your religious bigotry. And again, I simply inquired to the OP why he could speak for others.
Not everyone depends upon faith.
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@bball1777
It seems you’ve been indoctrinated into such beliefs.
Of course, if a God exists, we are exactly as he created us. For humans to be able to sin, if we were created we were created with the capacity for sin.
Just like if God created everything, God created evil. He chose to do so.
According to the doctrine, God created himself as his own son, right? And sacrificed himself to himself, in order to convince himself to forgive us.
If God created the rules, then God could have forgive us without a blood magic ritual sacrificing himself to himself.
So, yeah, the plot has holes.
The bigger problem you have is demonstrating the truth to your claims.
Why are you convinced any god exists, and how would you demonstrate that to be true?
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5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
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@IWriteEssaysSorry
Who said whatever caused the Big Bang expansion to happen was “created”?
The only honest answer is that we don’t know, and currently cannot investigate what the conditions were prior to the Big Bang.
However, our understanding of energy is that is isn’t created or destroyed.
Theists often suggest infinite regress is problem for everything…except (special pleading) their god. However, there is no logical fallacy regarding an infinite regress of energy existing. We do know, however, that quantum fields exist, and the expansion could have been the result of a fluctuation within a quantum field,
Again, we can’t know this for certain, and we cannot investigate. But we can demonstrate quantum fields and energy actually exist.
So any model suggesting the Big Bang resulted from a quantum field is better than a model that it resulted from something like a leprechaun.
If you see a hoof print in the snow, which would be a better guess for the cause? A horse, or a unicorn?
Something that we can demonstrate exists, or something we can’t demonstrate exists?
I hope that helps. Peace and reason.
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@IWriteEssaysSorry
It’s weird that you think you have a better understanding of the science, and feel a desire to lecture me, when I am demonstrably better informed.
You refer to the B-theory of time as if it is a novel concept, obviously not knowing that the A-theory versus B-theory of time have been considered by both science and philosophy for ages.
Please forgive me if this comes off as condescending, but you started with a comments suggesting you weren’t arguing for a god, but then later admit you’re arguing for the possibility of a divinity. Completely ignoring what I had posted. Then, you go on to,try to lecture me, pretending you have a better understanding, which you clearly don’t. It isn’t difficult to wrap my mind about the probability that something has always existed, and that we have no examples of “nothing” and cannot ever say a state of nothing ever existed. As soon as you try to define nothing, it becomes something. But that isn’t even relevant in the discussion of whether or not a divinity exists.
A divinity implies the existence of a consciousness. We have evidence for quantum fields, physics, chemistry, biology, brains, then consciousness.
We have no,evidence of any consciousness existing before or resulting from anything other than physical brains. Which circles back to my original response…
Any model for the cause of our universe which is built upon things we can demonstrate exist would be superior to any model based on things we don’t know exist, and can’t even demonstrate possibly exist.
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@IWriteEssaysSorry
Your perception is off, misguided and biased. My original comment was in no way hateful. I simply used sarcasm to make a point.
Sarcasm isn’t hate-based. However, suggesting someone is angry based on your own projection might be hateful, and hypocritical.
You were also deceptive, flat out lying when you initiated conversation.
Mocking someone’s unsubstantiated claims doesn’t require hate or anger. It’s amusement.
What I could have or should have said doesn’t require your approval. You seem angry that I can use my own judgement, and you hypocritically misjudge me.
You don’t get to ask questions of me after making such accusations. If you were sincere and non-confrontational, I’d be happy to engage.
But you’ve been dishonest and hypocritical. Why do you have a problem with anyone having an opposing opinion about the existence of gods?
Next time, don’t be rude and perhaps we can engage in conversation. I wonder though, why aren’t you asking the people who believe in God why they worship the God who authorized slavery within the Bible, and drowned babies? Weird how your “curiously” is so one sided, and hateful.
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@IWriteEssaysSorry
I was never angry. Despite me repeating that I wasn’t many times, are you still under the impression I was angry?
How is pointing out the absurdity of unsubstantiated claims hateful?
It’s not my obligation to walk on egg shells for people who are offended by facts.
And why aren’t you accusing other of being angry or asking anyone else to justify their positions?
See, it seems you’re trying to mask your own anger and hateful comments as curiosity.
You’ve also jumped from one topic to another, very much dismissing anything I had to say, all the while continuing to insist my comments were angry and hateful.
You seem to side with fallacious reasoning to justify beliefs that are unwarranted, and while playing as if you’re curious while not caring whether or not your beliefs are true.
And even now, you are telling me I was “probably not” angry, despite me having cleared up,your false assumption over and over again.
Having an opposing justified opinion doesn’t mean it’s based on hate or anger. You make not like direct wording that dismantles your beliefs, but that doesn’t mean my position is based on emotions. And when I offer an explanation based on facts, you seem to disregard the logic and cling to your own personal beliefs which are unsupported by evidence of any kind.
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@James-me6dw
Yes, I lack God.
I am not convinced any god exists.
However, you claim one does, and that you know Him, and He knows you.
So again, I ask of you…
Please ask your God what would convince me that He exists.
If He exists, He should know what would convince me.
If He exists, He knows I am not convinced.
If He wants me to be convinced, He could convince me. Right?
So I please with you…ask you God what would convince me, then let me know.
See, because then I would know, right?
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@donnagelina8548
You’re very confused. Drag isn’t men exposing themselves to children. This is why you’re fundamentally wrong.
As for your imaginary friend, unless you can demonstrate any God exists (and you can’t), then your God is simply a delusion.
Making claims about any God existing, or what such a God wants, thinks, or says…is just you lying about the nature of reality.
Remember, according to the Bible, your God made slavery permissible by law, and drowned babies. However, in reality, we know this is fiction.
The real problem here is that you tend to believe things that are not true.
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@mattburrito
There are multiple ways to rank countries based on their levels of democracy, including:
Democracy Index
Uses a scale of 0–10 to score countries based on five categories: electoral process, political culture, political participation, government function, and civil liberties. Countries with higher scores are considered more democratic. In 2022, Norway was ranked as the most democratic country in the world, followed by New Zealand and Iceland.
Democracy Matrix
Ranks countries based on a total value index and classification. In 2023, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Germany, and Switzerland were ranked as working democracies.
Human Freedom Index
Compares 123 jurisdictions over time to rank countries based on human rights. In 2023, the top 10 countries were Switzerland, New Zealand, Denmark, Ireland, Estonia, Sweden, Iceland, Luxembourg, Finland, and Norway.
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@wtflawlbags
Look who is denying reality, and is unaware, despite already having provided data.
Across all races and states in the USA, we estimate 30 800 deaths (95% uncertainty interval [UI] 30 300–31 300) from police violence between 1980 and 2018; this represents 17 100 more deaths (16 600–17 600) than reported by the NVSS. Over this time period, the age-standardised mortality rate due to police violence was highest in non-Hispanic Black people (0·69 [95% UI 0·67–0·71] per 100 000), followed by Hispanic people of any race (0·35 [0·34–0·36]), non-Hispanic White people (0·20 [0·19–0·20]), and non-Hispanic people of other races (0·15 [0·14– 0·16]). This variation is further affected by the decedent's sex and shows large discrepancies between states. Between 1980 and 2018, the NVSS did not report 55·5% (54·8–56·2) of all deaths attributable to police violence. When aggregating all races, the age-standardised mortality rate due to police violence was 0·25 (0·24–0·26) per 100 000 in the 1980s and 0·34 (0·34–0·35) per 100 000 in the 2010s, an increase of 38·4% (32·4–45·1) over the period of study.
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@Epheshians6.10-19
This is a good example of your confidence in this belief being higher than evidence warrants.
If you don’t mind, let me explain. You’re convinced I wouldn’t believe even if the scenario played out.
You’re wrong. You’re just accusing me of being dishonest, when you can’t actually demonstrate your beliefs in Jesus are true.
My preference is to hold as many true beliefs as possible, while holding as few false beliefs as possible.
To the end, I must employ reliable methods to differentiate false beliefs from true ones.
So, ask your God what would convince me. If your god exists, it should know what would convince me. Right?
Of course, it may not want me to know. If it doesn’t want me to know, I couldn’t. Right?
But please. I ask of you….will you ask your god what would convince me it exists. Then, let me know.
If an all powerful, all loving, all knowing god exists…
Then your suggestion that the only way to know is through Biblical references,
I have good reason to reject your claims.
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@hdgskevdb
I appreciate honest discourse. If this is a truth claim, either one should be able to demonstrate the claim comports with reality. That’s all truth really means.
You say “if Jesus Christ is the truth” I must come to him on his terms. Sure. If he is the magic all powerful, all knowing god,….of course things must go his way.
The question is whether or not the claims made about Christ are true.
But that is the question. Does such a god really exist? You mention the universe coming from nothing. Which means you don’t have the first clue what my position is, or what science says on the subject. I never claimed thinks the universe came from nothing. But, if a god doesn’t exist…are you saying the universe came from nothing? What is the explanation for the universe if no gods exist? Have you ever considered?
Sure,Miami’s reasonable to investigate claims. I have, with an open mind investigated.
I have read the Bible multiple times. But I have also investigated beyond the Bible, like it’s history, and it’s origins.
You might be surprised to discover the authors of the gospels are anonymous. You might be surprised to discover not a single one makes a first hand assertion thst they witnessed a resurrected Jesus. Only Paul, and he wasn’t even there at the time. Paul had only a vision.
So magic and miracle claims can’t be validated by historical accounts.
And many different religions make miracle claims. The problem is nobody can ever demonstrate or offer evidence for a god or a miracle or magic.
Otherwise sensible and honest people believe a lot of things. And a lot,of honest people make honest mistakes, or believe things without warrant.
So why would it be possible for Jesus to be who YOU claim him to be?
What evidence do you offer? Wait…before you answer this…
Is evidence even what convinced you to begin with?
Most people,aren’t convinced of religious claims through evidence, but through indoctrination.
95% of believers follow the same religion as their parents.
One’s beliefs can offer be predicted simply by knowing where they were born. Why is that?
But also…you might want to defend worshipping the god of slavery.
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@blanketyblank604
You’re half right.
Faith is belief in what you have no evidence to believe.
No matter how hard to believe, it doesn’t make any god, God, or gods real.
Or make anything real.
Remember, faith is used in Judaism, Islam, Mormonism, Hinduism, as well as Christianity.
In fact, faith can be applied to any belief, with no regard to whether or not the belief is true.
It will increase confidence in the belief, even when the belief is false.
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@crewded8630
I’m not challenging god to prove his existence.
My life is perfectly fine without the need to worship an imaginary being.
How can you have a firm understood of something you don’t know exists?
I do understand the claims Christianity makes. What I don’t have is any reason to conclude those claims comport with realty.
In fact, all evidence suggests your god doesn’t exist in reality, but only within your imagination.
Yes, you will,continue in full faith….faith being the excuse people,use when they don’t have good reason.
Remember, Hindus, Mormons, and Muslims all use faith too.
Faith isn’t a pathway to truth. It just reinforces false beliefs.
If you had evidence, you wouldn’t need faith.
So, would you be willing to ask your God what would convince me? Yes or no?
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@Just Be
I have peace, thanks.
But again, how can it be about faith when you could have faith in Hinduism or Mormonism?
It seems to me, faith is the bridge that takes you from having rational beliefs to having irrational beliefs.
I agree, you didn’t choose to believe. You were convinced. And faith raises your confidence in the belief.
But like I’ve said, other religions utilize faith in the same way. So faith can’t lead you to truth. It can, however, reinforce beliefs even when they aren’t true.
Yes, you’ve mentioned that perhaps some are chosen. However, that doesn’t address the questions about whether that would be something a loving god would do, or whether a god doing is so could be considered loving, or would be worthy of worship. It certainly doesn’t offer any reason to conclude the god even exists, but it does demonstrate inconsistencies.
So if you were to ask your god what it would take to convince me he exists, would he know? Does he want me to be convinced?
Maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t. It seems like an unfalsifiable position either way.
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@Just Be
Yes, the devil’s advocate.
Did you know that historically, this is where the idea of Satan comes from?
In early texts, there wasn’t a Devil or Satan. It was just someone who held an opposing position to a claim.
Of course, that idea evolved into a living agent that represents evil, through mythology.
Just as you probably think my questions are based in evil, when in truth they are not.
If pursuit of truth is evil, then what is god?
Sure, maybe that is my “purpose”. Or maybe, no gods exist and my purpose, to the extent I have one, isn’t dictated to me but is chosen by me.
But if I was given a purpose by a god, and your god sends me to hell for serving that or purpose, could that ever be just? Moral? Loving?
Would you be willing to ask your god what it would take to convince me he exists, and let me know?
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@allanc3655
Learn your history, he says. Tell me, Allan, where is God mentioned in the Constitution?
Within our constitution, the only references to religion are exclusionary. So, it is evidence you’re in no place to suggest anyone else learn history.
Rights aren’t given by your imaginary friend, nor are rights protected by your imaginary friend.
Our First Amendment guarantees freedom of and freedom from religion.
However, the First Commandment goes against the First Amendment.
So,apparently, you don’t know history, and don’t care about American values.
Also, you’re not referring to education. What you’re referring to is your pathetic indoctrination and complete lack of education.
So, tell me why you worship the god of slavery, and the god that drowned babies. Or, don’t you know your history?
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JustMe Sapphirefire23
You don’t even know the difference between you’re and your, but you think you’re qualified to teach anything?
I’m better educated on this subject than you are.
Out of the two of us, I’d bet I’m the only one who attended Seminary. So you’re going to conclude I’m lazy, based on having no evidence, and you’re wrong.
Similar to,your belief in a god. You’re likely indoctrinated into the belief and too lazy to look beyond the narrative.
I’ve studied the historicity of the Bible. Clearly, you haven’t.
I’ve also studied beyond a believer’s narrative of the founding of the United States.
Clearly, you haven’t done that either.
Oh, and such hypocrisy with your as hominem attacks, while not bothering to address any actual points.
Can you do better, believer?
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@jacovawernett3077
How would you demonstrate that your claims are true? Sounds a lot like gibberish.
Demonstrate a black hole has consciousness, for example. You can’t.
Remember, we have evidence for quantum fields, physics, chemistry, biology, physical brains, and then consciousness.
What we don’t have evidence for is a consciousness resulting from anything other than a physical brain, nor any consciousness resulting before quantum fields, physics, chemistry, biology or physical brains.
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@SDC1949
I don’t say this with malice hatred either, but those are claims not evidence. And faith is the practice of self deception. Faith has no mechanism to determine whether a belief is true, but will bolster confidence in the belief even when it is false. Every religion uses faith, but every religion can’t be right. Plus, me could have faith no god exits. Faith in Hinduism, faith in Islam, faith in Paganism…do you see the problem with just depending on faith?
So, is there any way to demonstrate any truth to those claims? Is there any way to show they’re not just imaginary?
This isn’t about free will. Sure, I can freely choose to believe things as true when they are not. But if I’m choosing what to believe, instead of going by the evidence, then I’m being dishonest with myself. And I’d rather not do that.
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@kelperdude
You’re asking how it isn’t relevant, but you’re not,offering how it is.
Meanwhile, Biden signed into effect a new National holiday.
What you fail,to recognize is that people can make mistakes, learn from them, and not perpetuate the same problems.
Now, I don’t find it necessary to defend Hunter in any way, and I’m not.
If he said something in inappropriate, then he owns that.
This doesn’t translate to Democrats being as racist and hateful as your are, for example.
Your attempts to gas light are weak, and have failed.
Now, tell us all,why you worship the god of slavery. Defend your position.
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@enriqueiii9209
That is fallacious reasoning. Lots of people have medical issues and recover. Often times, using medical science.
God gives people blood clots causing them to die, too…right?
If a Muslim, Mormon, Pagan, or Hindu ever recovered from a condition, did their gods heal them?
It’s the same argument.
Now, as for my existence…in case you failed biology, my parents had sex. As for my mom, her parents had sex. That is why we exist.
It’s common knowledge how that works, and there is evidence for it.
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@ncwordman
It is not logical to say a finite being cannot demonstrate the existence of a being that is infinite. That is not logic.
A finite being may not be able to demonstrate such an infinite being is indeed infinite, but logic doesn’t exclude it from demonstrating whether it currently exists.
And by your standards, if God cannot be proven to exist, then anyone who claims one does is irrational. However, it is not irrational to hold the position one doesn’t exist if there is no way to demonstrate it does. I’d test your position by asking you what your position is on the existence of any of the following: Unicorns, Leprechauns, Odin, Thor, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Vishnu, Allah, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Clause. Tell me honestly, if your ego will allow, on a scale from 0 to 100, which of these do,you give a higher than zero likelihood of existing? For,which of these would you make the same argument?
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@mercy-constanceaturu7030
So, Thanos snapped away half of known life, right? Those that got snapped away did not suffer, right?
Now consider the Noah story. Your god drowned everyone. Innocent children, innocent animals.
All made to suffer and drown. You worship an imaginary god that does such things.
The same god that made slavery permissible by law.
All I’m advocating for is autonomy. So, I would never play your “God”, as I am considerably more moral.
Didn’t your god sacrifice his own son/ self to himself, in order to convince himself to forgive his own creation for being exactly how he made them?
Come on, man…. You have no moral ground in the discussion. Now, if you want to worship the god of slavery and genocide, you’re free to do so,
And you’re not required to have an abortion either.
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@MyOpinionIsFacts
I’ll play along, if you can be honest. Can you?
First, if time doesn’t exist, there is no concept of “before stars and galaxies”. So, you’re going to need to catch up on terminology.
You can’t have it both ways.
No, a day cannot be any time amount of hours “depending on how you count”. Nor would that correct the errors within the Bible narrative.
Nothing in the Bible suggests “days” mean anything other than what we consider a day.
I can happily pass along a scientific answer to your question about what there was before stars, galaxies, and the world, etc….if you can be more specific.
Are you referring to before the Big Bang, or the period of time in between the Big Bang and when stars and galaxies formed? If you sincerely want a scientific answer to this, you should look to science for the answer. It sounds to me that you’re just not educated in what science can show based on evidence.
And it seems you think..if science doesn’t have an answer you agree with, then your god must exist…?
I’m not claiming to have lived endless years. That isn’t required to understand things. Ultimately, the OP claimed the Bible has incredible scientific accuracy.
And it does not. Science, however, is our most reliable method for measuring reality. And the Bible is mostly fiction.
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@imamerican3720
The Bible isn’t a book on teachings of love, and salvation is another myth. Salvation from something that doesn’t exist is a fraudulent claim.
Open your mind to the possibility of reality here, and let me explain where you’re positively wrong.
If a person in history was named Clark Kent, that wouldn’t mean he was bullet proof of could fly…no matter how many books were written about him.
Would you agree? That fact that a rabbi referred to as Jesus likely existed in history doesn’t mean any supernatural claim about this person could be true.
History cannot prove supernatural events take place, when they cannot be proven to happen today.
When you make assertions about a day of righteous judgement from god, please understand…you’re making a claim that you cannot demonstrate is true.
You’re just spouting more fiction.
As for a “book of love” please consider…according to the very same doctrine, this god made slavery permissible by his own laws, drowned babies, and created Hell…which is a place of eternal torment, a place where he sends people to suffer eternal torment for temporal crimes. Which is neither just, nor moral, nor loving.
You may equate torture with love, but I have a better, more righteous understanding of what love is.
Besides, if you’re “choosing” to believe this god exists…you’re doing it wrong. I’m not going to choose to be misinformed.
Now, here is a challenge for you. I ask that you seriously consider it. I am not convinced your god exists. None of what you said is convincing.
Perhaps I don’t know what would convince me a god exists, though I am willing to believe he exists. However, if a god exists, this god should absolutely know what would convince me.
Would you agree? Should your god know what it would take to convince me he exists? Does your god want me to know he exists?
The here is what I ask. Pray, and ask him what would convince me. Then, tell me what he says. If he is right, I will be convinced. We both will be convinced.
No, keep in mind, this is not a demand. I am simply asking. Now, if he doesn’t want me to be convinced, he will not answer.
But also, if he doesn’t exist, he Weill not answer. If he exists, and wants me to be convinced, he will answer.
Are you thinking this through?
Now…
Consider this prediction; why are you already thinking about why this won’t work, instead of asking him? Be honest.
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@ww-pw6di
No, my initial response was specifically addressing the OP, which did not mention in *increase*. It only mentioned people dying suddenly.
Go see for yourself.
Now, you should offer an acknowledgment, retraction, and apology.
Besides, if I wanted to make such an argument - and I am not - an upward trend on such cases would indeed suggest an increase before another increase.
So, either way…you’re wrong. Now, I get it…the way you feel,when you’re right is exactly the same way you feel when you’re wrong and don’t know it. Right up until the time you know it. Then, you feel like you do now…desperate denialism. Then, perhaps later, you come to terms.
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@JYPrime
This is about burden of proof. The standard is that those making the claim have the burden.
You understand, I hope, that we shouldn’t accept claims without evidence, right?
In other words, I don’t have to prove Zeus, Odin, Vishnu, Allah, and Yahweh don’t exist, especially when those claiming they do exist can’t offer a demonstration.
But if you need me to prove all of them don’t exist, then are you accepting all of these claims are true until they’re proven false?
My claim isn’t that gods do not exist. My position is null.
So, as for how we’d expect someone to demonstrate their claim….it would depend on what specifically the claim is.
If that isn’t clear, let me know.
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@sonOfTheL1vingGod
Why are you so ready and willing to lie about and for your beliefs? Why do you feel the need to misrepresent and be so dishonest?
However it came about, God made it lawful…according to the doctrine. At least be honest.
Exodus 21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
Would you like me to post Leviticus, too? I will.
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@sonOfTheL1vingGod
You were taking verses out of context, sir, making you look illiterate. Worshipping the God of slavery makes you look even worse.
God had great plans and ultimately used it for good? Thousands of years and millions of people suffering through slavery.
Your God couldn’t think of a better way? All,knowing, all loving, all powerful, coming up a little short.
Unless, of course…your God enjoys when people suffer.
What you’re being dishonest about here is this; I’m saying the Bible shows slavery is permitted by the laws of God.
All you’re doing is making up excuses why. But the laws for slavery are there, and out of context as you tried to LIE about.
Your God also drowned babies, out of anger. Anger over his own failures. And he couldn’t think of a better more,loving way to mange his anger than to drown everyone. Including pregnant women and babies. This doesn’t track well. All loving, all knowing, all powerful….best results: drown everyone.
Sounds like a moral monster. My moral standards are too high for any of that.
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@Freshie13
I’ve heard versions of these arguments repeatedly, and they have no real value in argument for whether or not a god exists.
I can appreciate polite discussion, if both sides remain honest. I find honesty from the other side unusual.
It doesn’t matter whether pioneers of science held a belief in any god, or whether their belief motivated them. That isn’t evidence for the existence of any god or gods.
You’ve have personal anecdotes that you can’t explain. That isn’t evidence either. That seems irrational to say you don’t have any explanation other than “magic”, or,some other force for which you don’t have evidence. You can’t really say the only explanation is supernatural when literally any natural explanation is far more likely than an explanation that couldn’t be true.
Science doesn’t need to explain “the soul” when you can’t offer any evidence for the existence of a soul.
As for meaning and purpose, the same argument applies…suggesting a supernatural explanation doesn’t hold water to any natural explanation, when natural explanations can be demonstrated to exist and supernatural ones can’t. It becomes circular; the supernatural must exist because the supernatural is my explanation for what happened.
Regarding consciousness; Consider…consciousness can only be demonstrated as resulting from physical brains.
We have evidence for the following, in order: quantum fields, physics, chemistry, biology, brains, then consciousness.
We have zero evidence for consciousness coming before any of those.
So, while perhaps science cannot currently explain everything about consciousness, the magic hypothesis doesn’t compare.
And yes, I realize most believers don’t consider god to be magic. However, in my argument god offers the same explanatory poses as magic.
One cannot be differentiated from the other.
So, god claims are based strictly on assertions and cannot be demonstrated within reality.
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@robertkleiman
You claim to be neither Christian nor Muslim, and are asking in good faith. Yet, you’re still convinced a god exists?
I’m happy to have conversation, so long as it remains honest.
I can respond as if the question was in good faith. You’re arguing the semantics of the burden of proof.
Remember, my position is that there isn’t warrant to believe a god does exist.
The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim.
If you claim a god exists, it is your burden of proof.
You make some very strange assertions. There are more documented accounts that God exists than there isn’t?
Again, this is about burden of proof. You don’t have “documented accounts” that a god exists.
You have many different claims that many different gods exist.
You don’t have historical evidence for any god, God or gods. What you have at nest are unsubstantiated claims.
So, by your standard…the Christian god exists, because we can’t prove it doesn’t?
That applies equally to Allah? Allah also exists because we can’t prove it doesn’t?
And Vishnu exists, because we can’t prove it doesn’t?
Same goes for Odin, Thor, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
You can also prove BigFoot doesn’t exist? And unicorns?
Can you prove you were not abducted by aliens anytime in the last five years?
If you want to discuss evidence for the existence of a god, we can.
But you have a misunderstanding about the burden of proof.
So, which god do you believe exists?
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@WillPOnya
If anyone is triggered, it is you…believer. You’re so triggered by the fact that you believe things that you really have no reason to believe are true.
Nature isn’t even idea of a creator. That is what people who do t understand science say. Which is why you suggesting anyone “get smarter” is so darn ironic.
You’re literally,argument from incredulity.
I don’t have to bring religion into the argument.
Existence exists. If you want to consider existence a “creation” you own the burden of proof to demonstrate a creator exists, and then demonstrate it can and did create anything.
Suggesting this imaginary creator of yours is a designer, an engineer, an architect, a builder is just adding additional claims, which you still cannot demonstrate.
Suggesting chemistry requires a code, firmware, software is just using poor analogies because you don’t understand the actual science. You’re just making additional claims based on your own incredulity.
Things indeed do come into existence without intelligence. Things come into existence through natural processes.
But it’s weird…are you saying this creator needed an intelligent creator to create it?
It’s weird and very telling that you’re bothering me with your readily debunked arguments, for which you’ve never spent any time investigating the counter arguments, and then telling me there is no need to bother other people. That makes you not only incredulous, but also very hypocritical.
I never claimed the eyeball created itself. Don’t you find it interesting that you lack any understanding of evolution, but argue against it just the same?
You have no idea how the eye evolved.
Your best argument is “look at the trees”?
You’ve just ranted a few hundred words just to admit you’re uneducated in science, but started with “get smarter”.
Come back when you’ve learned anything about evolution.
Common sense is over rated. Go learn things based on more reliable methods, child.
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@MaryHartman-ei9pv
Blasphemy is a victimless crime. I’m not afraid of your imaginary friend, and you shouldn’t be either.
You should spend more time considering why you can’t demonstrate your claims to be true, instead of just making such unsubstantiated claims to begin with.
You should also consider why on earth any pome should worship any being, imaginary or not, who enjoys when people suffer.
You stand firm on what you said, but you don’t have good reason to. And your threats are laughable.
Consider the fact that, as a non-believer, I think,glide wrong but I don’t think you deserve to suffer.
On the other hand, as a believer, you seem to relish the idea that a non-believer will be made to suffer, for eternity, for a non-crime.
And that, Mary, makes me a far more moral person than anyone who believes as you do.
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@JamesTKirkland
James, if you can’t demonstrate the existence of a God, how could you demonstrate a God is responsible for creating life?
James, since you have no understanding of science, what good would it do for me to explain what abiogenesis is, and what evidence we have for it?
James, every example of consciousness we have results from physical brains. Can you admit you can offer no evidence of consciousness resulting from anything other than a physical brain?
I find it so funny when people who have no understanding of science, use a science based computer device,,over a science based internet, to argue for the existence of magic over science.
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@Hippy2021
Now Mary, you’ve made an awful lot of claims in this post. I’d like for you to offer a demonstration that any of them are true.
I’ve heard all these claims before. Muslims make similar claims. Hindus make similar claims. The only thing you all have in common is that you cannot offer evidence that your claims are true.
You see things occur in the natural world, and attribute them to a god for you were indoctrinated in believing exists.
I know I was not hatched from the dirt, because I understand how biology works.
Of course, the Bible claims Adam came from the dirt. We know this is false.
So, you believe in a biblical god, but you reject the Bible.
What brings you to a conclusion that a god exists? Is it because you don’t have a better understanding of reality?
This is what is known as an argument from incredulity.
So please, don’t just make claims. Offer evidence. Just believing doesn’t make it so.
Again, Muslims and Hindus make similar claims. Do their gods exist too?
As for your recommendation to use my brain and not waste it, It seems that I have already put mine to better use.
I don’t mean that to be insulting, but if you believe things without evidence….then you’re not using your critical thinking.
If others can make the same claim about other gods, then what you call evidence is no better than theirs, and is insufficient.
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@Desicuevas
I don’t think I am a god, so retract your claim.
And yes, my morality is based on well being over suffering.
According to biblical doctrine, your god cares very little about human suffering.
But you still can’t provide evidence that any god, or the devil exists.
The world is evidence of the world. You can’t just claim it is evidence of a devil.
Besides, according to your doctrine, your gods is responsible for creating evil, creating the devil, and would,be powerful enough to stop evil, but doesn’t.
Your believing a god exists doesn’t make your god a reality. You don’t have evidence that Adam and Eve existed. All you have are claims.
Remember, the Bible is a book of claims, and those claims require evidence.
This planet doesn’t depend on my opinion, but your opinions are demonstrably false.
So go ahead and admit you don’t have evidence for your god or for a devil. Be honest.
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@kevinwest1607
Please don’t say you were ever like me. It can’t be accurate, and it comes off as dishonest.
Also, by saying “worse” you’re suggesting it is bad. That’s rude. No offense meant.
I’m sure your experience is very important to you.
I was once a believer, and I even attended Seminary. So I doubt very much much you were like me.
Please consider: Faith means believing without evidence, right?
Faith is used by different people to accept different gods, right? Muslims and Hindus use faith as well, would you agree?
And people of those faiths also offer similar arguments about having awful periods but pulled through.
Faith can be used to justify any belief, regardless whether or not the belief is true.
It does serve to bolster confidence in the belief, even if the belief is false.
So I find faith to be problematic, especially because I care whether or not my beliefs are true.
Also, Letting go of my religion has helped me through tough times, as it has for other non-believers.
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@spinninginspace
If you thought you were being skeptical, you were doing it wrong.
Part of skepticism is measuring your confidence to the evidence.
If person A says “my god exists, just ask him”, and person B says “my god exists, just ask him” but they believe in different gods….you should be able to see why “just ask him” isn’t a reliable pathway to whether or not any gods exist.
Which of the gods do you consider all knowing and worthy of worship?
Where are you getting any information about this god?
Does your god allow for doctrine that permits immoral things, such as slavery?
Is an immoral imaginary being really worthy or worship?
See, your “seek and you shall find him” is utter nonsense. You’re assuming I haven’t. I’m just not convinced by poor arguments.
I was raised to believe, and I even attended Seminary. It’s likely that I pursued an understanding for more critically than you, and far more than most believers.
But when you best argument can be used by believers of Vishnu, Allah, and Odin, your best argument is insufficient.
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@markbrowning4334
You’re making the mistake of demanding others honor people based on your bias, and ignorance. You don’t have a valid justification for demanding that others honor people who do not deserve honor. That isn’t a mistake.
Obviously you’re not smart enough to recognize some people during periods of their life, cannot remove themselves from the situation. And even if/when they can, you’re still demanding that the parents are honored.
What you’re doing is taking something that is common, and calling it rare, in order to dismiss the absurdity of your position.
And your claim about the existence of “one true god” is just nonsense. It is, in fact, a part of the problem here. You can’t ever demonstrate any God exists in reality.
Everything you think you know about your God is strictly imaginary and can never be demonstrated to be true.
And going back the point of honoring a parent, you’re probed by convinced this imaginary friend of yours deserves to be honored, praised and or worshipped.
However, since I’ve attended Seminary, and I have studied the Bible’s historicity, I know a few things about the subject. You’re talking about a fictional character, but an immoral one by all measures. You’re talking about the God who, according to the Bible made slavery permissible by his own laws. You’re talking about an allegedly all knowing, all loving, all powerful being that was so angry over his own failures, couldn’t think of a better way to resolve the problem than to commit genocide and drown everyone…including pregnant women and babies. He didn’t just poof them out of existence, he made sure they suffered first. Including babies.
More so, you’re talking about the guy who torments people for eternity, right? So…an eternal punishment which can be warranted for temporal actions. So, even the “one true god” you are convinced exists. (but doesn’t) is neither just, nor moral.
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@arnoeeuwigheid4499
The argument you’re making is very common rhetoric which isn’t evidence for a god.
Your first argument is partially correct but your conclusion is invalid.
A god would require a mind or consciousness, would you agree?
This is what we don’t have evidence for, any such consciousness being the cause.
We do have evidence of quantum fields, then laws of physics, then chemistry, then biology, then physical brains and consciousness.
What we don’t have evidence for is any sort of consciousness resulting from anything other than a physical brain.
If you’re claiming a god is simply a brute fact, why wouldn’t quantum fields, which don’t require consciousness also, work as a brute fact?
It satisfies your argument without the fallacious reasoning of requiring a consciousness.
Why would it necessarily have to be a being, or a thinking agent?
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@arnoeeuwigheid4499
First of all, I’m probably more moral than you. I probably have a better understanding of morality than you do.
You want to assume I am some less moral, but you’d be wrong. You want to assume I am lazy, but I am better educated on this subject than you, and have put in more effort than you.
Im not demanding any God do anything at all. See this is an example of your being dishonest.
Why would a god revealing himself produce a genuine conversion and deep love? Well, evidence would convince me it exists.
That’s a start. I can’t love something that doesn’t exist, the way you do.
You’re so ready to jump in with poor apologetics, you didn’t even bother to ask any questions on whether I did seek him with all my heart.
Out of the two of us, I bet I’m the only one who attended Seminary. The fact that I did shows you’re wrong about me being lazy, and shows I did, in fact, seek him out. More so than you did.
So, if a God cannot or does not reveal himself, is there any reason to be convinced? If a God doesn’t want me to know it exists, then I can’t know it exists, right?
If a cannot or,does not reveal itself, it may be one of a few options….it doesn’t want me to know it exists, it wants me to be convinced dishonestly for poor reasons (like you), or it simply doesn’t exist.
However, your only arguments are fictional stories…written thousands of year ago…which are mythology.
I’d ask,you how,many first hand accounts of a resurrected Jesus are offered in the Bible, but you wouldn’t even know the answer.
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@arnoeeuwigheid4499
If that is the only conclusion you can make, you’re not thinking critically. If this ends here, it is because you’re unwilling to answer my questions because you know your beliefs will unravel. I didn’t personally insult you. You were the one who suggested I was lazy and immoral, attempting to insult me. So now, you’re being hypocritical too.
Temper and arrogance? Look, you attempted to insult me, and you believe you have a personal relationship with a creator god that loves you. Isn’t that arrogant?
I’m not looking for any insincere wishes of blessing. I’m more interested in honest discussion. You’re either willing to participate, or,you’re not.
Clearly, you’re not. That’s OK. You can go on believing whatever you like. But at least consider, regarding morality…you worship the god of slavery and genocide, and I find both slavery and genocide to be immoral. I care more about the well being of people than either you or your god.
If you can’t bother to critically think,through the questions I offered….you’re sad and untrue.
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@shawnalLovesJesus
Thank you, Shawna, for showing how my point of view has been so flawed
I assumed there was no God at all, but now I see that's cynical
It's simply that his interests aren't particularly broad
He's largely undiverted by the starving masses
Or the inequality between the various classes
He gives out strictly limited passes
Redeemable for surgery, or two-for-one glasses
I feel so shocking for historically mocking
Now, your interests are clearly confined to the ocular
I bet given the chance, you'd eschew the divine
And start a little business selling contacts on-line
Holy cow man, what are the odds
That of history's endless parade of gods
That the god you just happened to be taught to believe in
Is the actual one and he digs on healing
But not the AIDS-ridden African nations
Nor the victims of the plague, nor the flood-addled Asians
But healthy, privately-insured Americans
With common and curable lens degeneration?
This story of Shawna’s has but a single explanation
A surgical God, who digs on magic operations
No, it couldn't be mistaken attribution of causation
Born of a coincidental temporal correlation
Exacerbated by a general lack of education
Vis-a-vis physics in Shawna’s parish congregation
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@Carlito4629
Do you understand what a null position is?
Which god would you like demonstrated doesn’t exist?
And why would anyone need to demonstrate something doesn’t exist, when you can’t demonstrate that it does?
See, with your argument of “demonstrate it doesn’t exist” you’re going to run into problems.
Based on that argument, you must necessarily conclude Big Foot exists, unicorns exist, Aliens exist and probe you every night, Allah exists, Vishnu exists, Zeus, Thor, Odin all exist.
Do you recognize the problem?
Now, if you’re going to suggest a god with the tru-omni properties exists, we can use logic to show those properties can’t exist together.
Thanks for asking.
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@limakay9266
How is it a god could be real,for. You, if it does t exist in reality?
You’re just admitting your god is imaginary…a delusion…and you’re not willing to face it.
Quotes don’t matter. They offer nothing more than an opinion, and it isn’t even your opinion.
Also, you’re going to have as difficult a time demonstrating souls exist and you are demonstrating any god exists.
Said aside the cynicism, and demonstrate your God exists.
Or better yet, ask your God what it would take to convince me it exists, then let me know.
If it exists, it should be able to answer that. Let me know, then we will both be convinced.
But you already know deep down this can’t happen.
To prove you’re wrong even further…I don’t blame or hate your imaginary friend.
I don’t believe your friend exists. So I don’t blame or hate it. So you can’t even cope with reality, and have no argument.
If you’re going to claim most suffering is caused by people, you’re going to need to cite sources. And you can’t.
Natural disasters cause an awful lot of suffering.
I don’t need and wouldn’t accept your advice on ways to look at things when you’ve been indoctrinated into a cult and know nothing about science or medicine.
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@mikewagner1614
Moon Shoes isn’t my given name. It is a screen name. This is common within social media.
Sure, you can make up reasons why the names are anonymous, but the Bible itself indicates these are anonymous.
And sure, since we don’t have original manuscripts, and the fact the gospels were not even written down for many generations means they could only be passed down verbally, by what most would consider zealots. People with a narrative.
The treatment of one’s enemy? I’m not referring to enemies necessarily. The god,of the Bible made owning people as property permissible by law.
That is immoral.
And now, your belief has demonstrable impaired your moral compass enough to defend something as immoral as slavery.
In order to preserve your belief in your imaginary friend.
But to answer your question….No, there is no reason to believe a god even exists, let alone any claim that a god proclaimed anything.
Remember, all you have is doctrine. Anonymous doctrine, passed down for generations by word of mouth before being put to paper, with no original manuscripts and no way to know how many alterations were made, or is any of it was accurate.
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@dylonjackson4576
If the premise is your God doesn’t care, or enjoys when people suffer, perhaps you’re right.
If your God is awful and enjoys when people suffer, then how is it deserving of worship?
So, you’re arguing that your God created suffering for his own amusement, perhaps?
There could be bad and good things without childhood cancer and people,getting locked into boxes.
No matter what, the problem of evil is a burden you have to deal with.
As for a superiority complex, it’s just evidence that you’re not qualified to make such an assessment and come to conclusions without warrant.
Why do you feel the need to be hypocritical? Don’t you have a bit of a superiority complex attacking me, especially while being hypocritical?
Oh, that’s right….you use faith to reinforce belief that aren’t warranted. So, whatever you do is perfectly fine. Lol
Lighten up, Francis.
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@arixelle7859
First, Why question me? If you’re going to question why someone questions, you already have an answer.
But if you’re going to tell me religion doesn’t hurt anyone, we both know you’re wrong.
If someone posts a comment in a public forum, it is open to responses.
Since we’re questioning…tell me…which god or gods do you believe exist, and why?
Do you worship the god of the Bible who, according to doctrine, made slavery permissible by his own law?
The same god that allegedly drown pregnant women and babies?
Are you unaware of the harm of Christian Nationalism impacting and hurting people today?
Perhaps there is good reason to question, yes?
And please, don’t pretend my comments are preventing anyone from living their lives.
Asking questions, or even mocking terrible ideas, in no way hinders a person from living their lives.
Right?
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@CoraliaL2D
I get it. You can’t be wrong about anything, ever. And you won’t consider that you could be incorrect about anything.
And….you also believe that if a Hindu, Muslim, Mormon, Christian, or Jew, or Satanist had the same attitude, they’d be justified to hold onto their beliefs without question, so,long as they believe and don’t question, they’re justified.
Is that about right?
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@alphaclam
I’m not stumped. You’re just ready to declare victory without thought.
You didn’t address the Euthyphro dilemma. You didn’t answer if it drowning babies would be objectively immoral.
You have some serious unresolved issues in your argument. First, your belief in God is completely subjective.
And if your God existed, your God’s position on morality would also be necessarily subjective.
And since you can’t demonstrate any God exists, especially your own, your position is strictly provisional on the existence of a God that is absent.
Now, for the sake of argument, what if there is an undiscovered natural law of physics that moves the moral arc towards betterment?
An undiscovered law of physics could explain the moral arc, and it never drowned babies.
Now, if drowning babies out of anger is objectively wrong, it is just as wrong for you and me as it would be for your God.
In fact, it might be more wrong, or more immoral, than if humans did it.
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@lionessofel3203
Yes. I’ve attended Seminary. I’ve read the parts that you obviously haven’t. You’re simply parroting bogus information, in order to defend an immoral book.
Yes, there was indentured servitude. There was also chattel slavery. I’ve already mentioned Exodus 21 and Leviticus 25. Why not go read them for yourself.
Please don’t make,me copy and paste them here.
Hebrew males were released after six years. Hebrew females were owned for life. If they had children, the children would be owned for life. Non-Hebrews would be owned for life. This is chattel slavery. Go read it for yourself.
Oh, and now you’re pretending I was hurt by the church? Why? Why are you being dishonest claiming something you couldn’t possibly know?
I’m bitter about God? No. There is no reason to think a god exists. I’m referring to the doctrine. And you’re defending slavery,, which is immoral.
I can refer to the doctrine where the god character drowns babies. And you’d defend that too, no doubt.
And low, like a terrible salesman, “you better hurry, this offer expires soon”. No. Facts are facts, and they don’t expire.
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@lionessofel3203
Exodus 21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her[b] for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.
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@jackkraken3888
I understand some organizations may not permit working in other places, though I don’t see that as lawful, right, or moral. I also don’t see it as a conflict of interested to be on OF, so long as you keep those worlds separate. Again, she isn’t promoting it at school, and is t giving students access to it. I also don’t see SW as lacking dignity necessarily.
Watching the comments on videos isn’t really useful or an intellectual means of determining right and wrong. I also don’t agree it is degrading. Now, I understand you do, and we have a difference of opinion, and that is OK. However, that just means you shouldn’t choose it for yourself. If she doesn’t find it degrading, who should stop her? Referring to someone as a whore or hooker depends on intent.
Sure, porn can be destructive. So can any industry. If SW was legalized, people could be better protected, just as legalizing marijuana, for example allows us to better regulate it and make obtaining it less dangerous since people don’t need to deal,with shady criminals.
What is it about SW you find degrading? If an adult freely chooses to engage?
I mean, I find the slave mentality of many religions to be degrading, but I don’t think it’s my job to stop you or anyone else from practicing as they see fit. I might be able to make an argument against it in some cases, but people are free to engage.
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@182Fightstar
Yes, I a, asking for evidence for the claims you’re making.
I look around and see plenty of evidence of people making claims they can’t substantiate.
What I don’t see, and what nobody can produce, is evidence that warrants the conclusion that the supernatural, or gods, are real.
So I have asked you for evidence, repeatedly. At first, you don’t bother, you just claim I am closed minded.
Now, you seem to admit these are claims you can’t provide evidence for. “Look around” is the best evidence you have?
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@Fusion_4000
Again…it is your opinion…that I should stop….expressing my opinion?
Cool. You first.
Stop cancelling other people? Look, if you’re going to cry like a radicalized snowflake, I’m going to treat you as such.
If you can’t handle that, then grow up. No one is telling anyone to stop believing in their imaginary friends, or to stop following any religion.
Am I not allowed my first amendment rights to free speech here, Charlie?
Yes, people have different opinions. Facts are different. Logic is important too.
Right. I can’t prove a god doesn’t exist. So, yes or no? does that mean you believe in Big Foot? You must, because you can’t prove he does t exist,,right?
You must also believe in Zeus, Odin, and Vishnu, too? Oh right, that isn’t how it works, does it?
It’s a shame you’re not really here for honest discourse. Am I right?
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@mattalibozek7258
If so many people refer to you as a bootlicker, I’d recommend considering why so many people do.
Everyone I know says my vehicle is blue. I do t consider them sheep just because they agree my vehicle is blue.
Whether or not you think it is appropriate isn’t relevant. If you don’t want to film people in public, don’t film people in public.
If you don’t like chocolate ice cream, don’t eat chocolate ice cream. But who are you to tell me whether or not I can legally enjoy ice cream?
Creepy vibes come from people that think they’re personal opinion on what ice cream others eat is relevant.
You’re the creepy guy here.
Nobody in this video was following anyone around, insulting them, or harassing anyone. That is something you’re doing though.
If you don’t want to be seen in public, you must create your own privacy.
Yes, I’m sure you’d like to call me all,sorts of names, because you can’t make an intelligent response.
Please, tell me why you reject our Constitution and First Amendment rights?
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@zackdelarosa14
Yeah, I know the stories. I don’t need you to tell me what the Bible says, or repeat what I learned in Seminary.
If God sends people to Hell, God is immoral and unjust.
The flood was to get a clean state, so God drowned babies.
If drowning babies is immoral, God is immoral.
Slavery is immoral. If God made it permissible by his own laws, God is immoral.
Yes, slavery still happens today. In America, many people diced fighting a civil war to end slavery.
Get it? You God could have said “don’t own people as property”. He didn’t do that.
According to doctrine, he made it lawful to own people as property. And to beat the people.
Humanity may be cruel, but humanity was made in the image of your God.
Immoral.
Good thing it’s all fiction, eh? You and I can recognize owning people as property and beating them is immoral. And we can be better than that.
But you choose to worship this immoral and fictional thug.
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@jesuschristisreturningsoon640
We are not friends. We can have friendly conversation, but you seem opposed to that.
I’ve already explained that I don’t have faith, and why I don’t. Faith is intentional self deception.
I prefer to hold as many true beliefs and as few false beliefs as possible,
You suggest I study scripture with the heart of a child. What you’re suggesting is believing without critical examination.
That is clearly what you’re doing, but I am not so easily fooled.
I have indeed studied this more than you. Evidence of this is shown when you can’t answer how many first hand claims to witnessing a resurrected Jesus are within the Bible, and when you aren’t aware they authors of the gospels are anonymous, and when you don’t realize we don’t have any original manuscripts for the gospels.
John was not a first hand account. Nor do you know who wrote any of the gospels.
Another problem you have is whether the disciples could read or write, and what language they spoke.
There is only one first hand account to witnessing a resurrected Jesus, and you don’t even know who that was.
I’d recommend not building a worldview based on hearsay and supernatural claims.
Further, you’ve made some false assumptions about me. You should apologize.
I don’t have pain in my heart, and I don’t believe a god that doesn’t exist is responsible for anything.
If you can’t even grasp the reality of no god existing, you aren’t in a position to make wild assumptions.
Try some honestly.
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“We now have additional evidence that reaffirms the importance of COVID-19 vaccines, even if you have had prior infection. This study adds more to the body of knowledge demonstrating the protection of vaccines against severe disease from COVID-19. The best way to stop COVID-19, including the emergence of variants, is with widespread COVID-19 vaccination and with disease prevention actions such as mask wearing, washing hands often, physical distancing, and staying home when sick,” said CDC Director Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky.
The study looked at data from the VISION Network that showed among adults hospitalized with symptoms similar to COVID-19, unvaccinated people with prior infection within 3-6 months were 5.49 times more likely to have laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated within 3-6 months with mRNA (Pfizer or Moderna) COVID-19 vaccines. The study was conducted across 187 hospitals.
COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective. They prevent severe illness, hospitalization, and death. CDC continues to recommend everyone 12 and older get vaccinated against COVID-19.
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@davidthompson6636
You’re still trying to conflate faith with trust.
Faith is believing in the absence of evidence. Trust isn’t the same. This is an equitation.
Faith can be used to justify belief in any position, regardless of evidence. Faith can be applied even when there is evidence to the contrary.
Part of the problem here is that you’re so insistent that you’re right, you can’t acknowledge or admit the flaws in your position.
This bias makes you dishonest.
This is about methodologies. Since science is demonstrably more reliable than faith, then trust is warranted. However, science is based on a methodology designed to eliminate bias as best as possible while remaining tentative in it’s conclusion.
Your faith and your religion aren’t based on demonstrably reliable methods.
You’re outright suggesting using an unreliable method like faith as if it is as reliable as scientific methods. This is the crux of your failure.
You’re suggesting what is measurable should be held with the same regard as things that are not measurable, and cannot be shown to exist.
You’re suggesting a false conclusion is equal to a correct conclusion.
If emotions are simply chemical responses, and you reject this notion, then you’re just rejecting reality.
Here is where the problem lies with your approach;
Either emotions are indeed a chemical response, or there is something more.
We can demonstrate emotions are indeed a chemical response, but you’re asserting there is something more…
Not only are you asserting there is something more,…you’re convinced you know what that something is.
And your method to reach the conclusion is to just believe without evidence or any warrant whatsoever.
Remember, the mind that changes should be your own.
And meanwhile….in this discussion you have still offered exactly ZERO evidence for the existence of anything supernatural.
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@davidthompson6636
If two faith based positions conflict with each other, how do you determine which, if either, is correct?
I will address your incorrect assertions. However, when you can’t/won’t acknowledge the points I obviously have to repeat, it shows how,Disney’s t your approach it.
I posit you can’t be honest because of you do, your faith will,naturally diminish, and you refuse to allow that.
1. I am not demanding you use science or anything else. That is dishonest. Why is honesty such a problem for you?
Science doesn’t declare itself unfit to examine the realm you claim exists. It is not the fault of science that you cannot provide evidence.
Also, what method are you using to make conclusions about this alleged realm and how can you demonstrate it isn’t wrong?
2. I am not denying the use of trust. Again, faith is believing without evidence. Trust can be granted on the basis of evidence.
Again, this goes back to methodology.
Consider this thought experiment. Please acknowledge and respond:
Two people are in a room with five gift baskets. One of the two opens each box, looks inside, and writes down what is in each box.
The second person does not open the boxes, and does not look inside.
Which of these two people are using a more reliable method? Which person can be trusted to understand what is in each box?
3. I am not demanding you prove any god exists. I am pointing out that you can’t, and as such there is no reason to accept your assertion any gods exist.
You’ve repeatedly made assertions about the sign of Jonah. Whatever this means to you, it simply another baseless assertion.
You’re also conflating a “sign” with evidence. This is dishonest.
No, I didn’t approach anything with willed decision is wrong. But you recognize that would be a problem….but you’re doing the opposite. You’re concluding they are true without warrant.
Making another assertion about Josephus weakens your argument. Someone recording there were witnesses doesn’t mean there were witnesses. It means there is a recording which must be verified, and in this case cannot be.
4. I am not demanding an earthly answer. Only honest ones. And you refuse to meet that simple criteria.
And in the mean time….you worship the god of slavery….right?
You can’t be of any help to me. You could have a more reliable world view, but outright refuse it.
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@kuba2ve
Yes, there are lots of claims for supernatural events, but no evidence.
So, by your reasoning, you must believe in every god, Allah, Jesus, Zeus, Odin, Thor…because people claimed they existed.
See how that doesn’t work?
And child, I’ve definitely invested more than you have. You’re not even aware who wrote the gospels.
And you still believe Ohio floats, right?
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@MellowMaromi
Right, there is no reason to conclude any God, god, or gods exist. These ideas are also absurd and should not be taken seriously.
I certainly don’t, and I challenge people’s ideas almost every day.
So, I don’t think it is different. And I think those beliefs should be challenged, and mocked.
Worse yet, the typical God of the Bible believers like to claim their God is love, and it’s their source of morality. Meanwhile, their doctrine shows this god allegedly made slavery permissible by his own laws…and that he drowned babies. So, we can show on their own morality is skewed by the terrible beliefs.
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