Comments by "XSportSeeker" (@XSpImmaLion) on "A followup to the Brazil u0026 iPhone chargers video." video.

  1. I'll just reiterate the comment I made on the previous video, which wasn't in time for Louis to read for this follow up I guess... eh, and I know my comments are just too long for most people to read anyways. xD But again, the problem with Louis' logic on this topic is that while his arguments may apply to the US market, the brazilian market is different for iPhones, particularly new models. It's different for electronics in general. And honestly, I don't think going for one perceived problem invalidates another. I agree that most of other Apple anti-consumer stuff are far more dire in comparison to not including a charger, for myself and probably lots of other people, but this is about what's patently visible for brazilian consumer protection laws, not about whatever injustices Apple is hiding under the hood towards all it's brazilian costumers. Apple got issued warnings from consumer protection regulatory bodies in Brazil, this does not equate to what Apple consumers in Brazil see as the biggest problems with Apple products. Similarly, most of the questions made by congress in the US towards Facebook and Google CEOs have absolutely nothing to do with what US citizens are really worried about regarding privacy and security of their data... but it's done from a specific governmental perspective. Ok, on to the arguments. The cheapest iPhone charger available on the brazilian online Apple store isn't 20 bucks, but rather 200 brazilian reais. Also, iPhone 12 lineup is somewhere between 6000 (12 base model) brazilian reais and (12 Max Pro base model) 11000 brazilian reais, batship crazy price no one but the extremely rich in Brazil can afford. Most brazilians don't get 11000 a year in wage. The market for latest model iPhones in Brazil is tiny. Apple's marketshare in Brazil is already waaaaay smaller than it is in the US... I think US is a bit over half the smartphone market, in Brazil it's somewhere between 10 and 15%, but it's composed mostly of older iPhone models. You can buy a brand new iPhone SE first model or iPhone 6 in brazilian market today, including in deals made with mobile networks. That's how far behind we are because of prices. Again, this has to do with currency exchange rates, importation taxes, and other factors external to Apple's own will - but it means that for brazilians, an official USB charger is not a trivial purchase. With 200 bucks I can order something like 10 pizzas. I know 20 bucks is like a meal or two in the US, so we're talking 5 to 10 times more value. I didn't even consider it being an USB-C charger in my original comment because I didn't know, but that makes it even worse... that 200 bucks cheapest charger on Apple's brazilian store I'm talking about is that crappy cheap USB A single plug charger. Not even sure those would work with an iPhone 12. 6 hours for full charge or something? xD These newer MagSafe style chargers? Those are closer to 600 to 800 brazilian reais. I'm not making this up, you can go into the brazilian Apple store, it'll be there. if you either have to get a USB A to USB C cable plus charger, or a charger that takes USB-C PD, from Apple... than we're talking about hundreds more brazilian reais. Again, for reference, monthly minimum wage in Brazil is a bit over 1000 brazilian reais. Just so people understand how expensive those things are for brazilians. I'm not arguing that the other afforementioned problems with smartphone flagship market, Apple anti-consumer strategies, and other problems that Louis talked about are unimportant or less important... because you know, a regulatory, governmental, law bound complaint against a company is just that - one complaint. It doesn't mean we can't have more complaints. Just because you have one of those questionings do not invalidate the need for other types of questionings, it's just that this one was clearer and easier to make from the standpoint of consumer protection laws. I'm not entirely sure what is the status of stuff like right to repair, anti-consumer practices, and other issues with Apple products because... I'm not an Apple costumer myself. Probably never will be, even though I'm in the middle class more or less, you really need to be on the top of upper class here to afford Apple products. But likely, those questions, if they were ever raised, comes from a very limited ammount of consumers, because the market itself is incredibly small. We don't have enough people with technical knowledge and money to raise questions on particular Apple products enough to make a consumer protection law level stink and petition for politicians to go against the company. Heck, we barely even have enough physical Apple stores in Brazil... I think we have 2 or 3. And stuff like that happens all throughout the entire scope of technological products... give an unrelated example close to myself, over a decade ago, Dell faced a class action lawsuit in the US specifically on their Dell XPS m1330 laptop because it came with an nVidia discrete graphics chip that overheated at high loads and fried the entire motherboard. I know this because I had that laptop. There was no such class action lawsuit in Brazil, basically because I was probably among the hundred or so people who had one, and among the single digit people who knew that this was the problem the laptop had, and that US costumers went against Dell with a class action lawsuit for it. What I'm saying is, the market for Apple products in Brazil is so small that you don't have enough traction for intricate Apple product related problems to ever pop up in legislation and regulatory bodies - unless it's an active, apparent, and mainstream discussion overseas. As for other smartphone brands, laptops, desktops, and electronic products... I'm not sure how legal it is, but you can find people who repair electronics in Brazil basically everywhere. :P Even smaller cities will likely have a small store that fixes electronics. It often isn't worth it for flagship models, because you know, those parts also have to be imported, and they cost a lot, so people in repair often don't have enough of a stock to work every single brand and model, but they are out there (I had to repair both my Sony Xperia Z3 and my OnePlus 3 cracked screens because smartphone repair shops where I live didn't have parts, didn't want to risk messing with those brands and models, outright refused to do it - they'll mostly repair the stuff you find more regularly on brazilian market, which are low end budged smartphone models from Samsung, LG, Motorola, etc).
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  2. And so, you gotta look at what was the perspective of brazilian law to look at the lack of a charger as a consumer related problem. I'm repeating my previous comment here, but just to keep it in both videos. The question that was raised against Apple is that taking off the charger from the package ammounts to selling an incomplete package that forces costumers to pay for a separate accessory to make use of the product as it was advertised, which would constitute something related to what consumer protection law in Brazil considers a "forced coupled sale" (venda casada). It comes in question because we have strong law and regulatory precendent on this issue, we have a history of problems, laws and regulations to solve stuff like that. And consumer protection regulatory bodies are always on the lookout for this specific type of issue. This relates somewhat with false advertisement, companies selling incomplete products that knowingly needs extra accessories to work as it was advertised, and related scams. Consumer protection laws in Brazil are overly comprehensive on paper (enforcement is another story) because you know, this is a country with a culture of corruption, dishonesty and scams all around. Businesses trying to scam costumers, costumers trying to scam businesses, and the law trying to cover as much as it can in as many details possible so that things are resolved faster in courts which are already overburdened with too many problems. Now, there was an exception to this rule which US law I think also makes - batteries not included. But the regulations and laws were never expanded to include stuff like chargers, because you know, Brazil is hugely bureaucratic, our laws goes back to the stone age, it's more outdated than even US law, and it wasn't made to encompass newer stuff like charging standards, etc etc. Still, with the differences I'm talking about, you gotta see how different the market for an iPhone 12 is from the US market for it. Electronics in Brazil are less of a commodity, and in the case of latest model Apple products, they are actually more like an insane luxury. The general population is much less likely to have a box full of USB chargers around, particularly well made chargers that comform well with newer devices, because these products that include or need USB chargers are incredibly expensive here. People do have smartphones and tablets, but they are mainly low end budget stuff, chinese brands, and so is the quality of chargers included or sold by 3rd parties here. Apple also explicitly recommends using only official Apple chargers for their products, so you see where the argument for forcing an extra sale for the product to work comes from. Even Apple costumers in Brazil, who necessarily have lots of money, will not necessarily have a bunch of Apple chargers lying around. Because most iPhone users in Brazil sell their phones in order to purchase a new one. eWaste coming from USB chargers in Brazil is not a major issue... we have eWaste, but you gotta think years back. Major sources in Brazil are still CRT TVs and monitors, VCRs, old washing machines, old desktops, stuff like that. And so, the environmental issue regarding specifically USB chargers is not as big as it is in the US. Another thing I need to say so that people understand the technological state of Brazil - most people don't have, potentially never even heard of, USB-C as a standard here. This is purely annedoctal, but honestly - most people I know are still using smartphones with microUSB. My mom has had a USB-C smartphone for a few years now, because I buy her electronics... she had multiple occasions where co-workers asked to borrow her smartphone cable only to end completely confused by this weird connector that doesn't fit on their smartphones. :P Seriously. Brazil is always a few years behind in mainstream technology when compared to developed countries. Anyways, all of these cultural, technological, regulations and whatnot differences needs to be put on the balance for anyone to understand why some stuff pops up regarding topics like that. But in an overly simplifying manner, brazilian consumer protection regulatory bodies are saying Apple needs to include a charger with the iPhone 12 because brazilian consumer protection laws states that the phone must be an out of the box complete solution, as it's being advertised in Brazil. It's unfair to make an assumption and expect brazilian consumers to purchase an extremely expensive product, and not have it work unless they make another expensive purchase. And honestly, given all that I've already written about how the market works in Brazil, I have to agree. For how much Apple charges for the iPhone 12 in Brazil, it probably should be closer to chinese brands that also includes wireless buds, clear case, a couple of screen protectors and whatnot. :P If it turns to eWaste, gets sold, or whatever... you paid enough for it.
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