Youtube comments of Neolithic Transit Revolution (@neolithictransitrevolution427).
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In terms of Europeans creating a society in the south, a few important points.
1. Most of the deadly disease was brought by Europeans, originally from Asia and Africa. Malaria being a key example.
2. For exactly the above reason, the civilization in the south was entirely dependent on African slaves. This wasn't just the white peasantry refusing to be a lower class, they simply died of diseases African slaves were immune to. Without this labour force the european society couldn't survive labouring outdoors, and as such wouldn't have existed.
3. To talk about the south without talking about hook worm is a huge missing segment. A large part of the reason southerns are seen as lazy etc is that they were chronically ill with parasites until the 1950s.
Edit: To avoid being misleading, I should clarify that Malaria wasn't prominent enough to be a death sentence for Europeans in the south as it was in Africa. While white settlers could survive (with high mortality rates), the plantation economy, which was a dominant aspect of Southern Culture even for those not working on a plantation, could not. The labour requirements and particular risk for new European immigrants made it unprofitable to use labour from more established sources, such as indentured irish workers or slaves from the Barbary trade. This lead to the preference for African Slaves, setting the stage for the development of the Chattel slavery racial caste system which would later become an entrenched aspect of the society.
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I've always been a fan of the modular style, I really appreciate this as a follow up to The Nakagin Capsule Tower.
I really enjoy the way multilevel exposed walkways turn the claustrophobic feeling of a hallway into an extension of the space, it's a really inversion of the tight feeling of the pods. The appearance of a growing city, as you said, makes the building feel more full of life and engaging, certainly not the mundane or awkward Commie Tower we are so used to in Ontario.
I do think I would enjoy the building more if it were built on a first floor podium of a few stories. Housing some mixed use, particularly first floor commercial, would increase that city feel and create real engagement for residents. At the same time, it would reduce the level of redundancy needed in the modules by lowing the maximum load, potential saving cost. Such a podium could "tease" at modularity with some cut outs, creating a textured place feel for foot traffic, but might make the space feel more inviting by reducing the hidden corners.
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Tagging onto this clear explanation;
Shale oil is predominantly very light hydrocarbons, and much of a barrel ends up as Petrochemical feed stock or gasoline, with very little diesel of heavier oil products being produced. This is part of why in recent years diesel has become more expensive than gasoline.
The US lacks the transportation infrastructure to move oil predominantly from the Permian Basin in Texas easily through the country, ie across the Rockies or to the Midwest.
The "lack" of infrastructure to refine this relatively sweet and light fuel is really a large amount of very expensive infrastructure to refine very heavy sour blends, particularly in the Midwest where the majority of Canadian Oil sands flows, and it would be an enormous capital loss to write this off and build new, less advanced refineries. You actually could refine shale oil, the issue is you end up running well bellow capacity, producing only light products, and not paying off the expensive Coker units.
Shale oil is not an infinite Resource, the Bakken and Eagle Ford are already passed peak production, and the Permian is seeing declining output per foot of well drilled (although foot of well drilled is getting cheaper to compensate).
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I don't believe you are looking at this with enough granularity. You talk about the realities of infrastructure and crude characteristics, but then seem to ignore this by the conclusion.
There is frankly no way to look at the Midwest and Rockies without them being import dependent - dependent on Canada, sure, and with legal protection and a near monopsony due to pipelines, but more than half the oil consumed is still imported in these regions.
California as well simply can't be viewed as anything but energy dependent. The refineries need a heavy crude, there is no pipeline capacity with the continent, and again we see growing Canadian fractions but I say energy independence is to ignore reality.
We can only say the US south, from Permian shale and Offshore, is an actual net surplus. And it's an enormous surplus, no doubt. But you can't look at a basement full of people drowning and an 11th floor of people dying of thirst and say there seems to be no issues with water access. Not only is there no way to move Permian shale throughout the country, but it's the wrong "flavor" for almost all the infrastructure it's near.
A hypothetical refinery has a pipe a meter in diameter with oil flowing in. Let's say it was built for heavy oil, the oil enters the distillation chamber and is seperated into components according to the size of molecules. The really light molecules, 1-3 carbons (methane, ethane, propane) exit out a 1 inch pipe at the top, another 1inch pipe for butane, a 2 foot diameter pipe for gasoline which is a mix ~10 carbon long molecules, a foot diameter for diesel which is heavier, and then some real heavy stuff out the bottom. And that all works because I know the oil coming in has ratios that break up to fit the pipes going out. If you decide to try and switch that input oil to something light, you have to reduce the amount of oil you're processing, because the fractions have changed. Suddenly that 1 inch pipe at the top is completely full, even though the gasoline take away pipe is half full, and the Diesel is near empty. And shale oil IS light, super light, sometimes even called ultralight. In some cases it's comparable to that 1 inch pipes output, or condensate, or NGL liquids. Which is a huge problem, because that shale oil requires an enormous amount of diesel to access, but gives very little back. You cannot run the US economy on shale oil, I might be able to fill my car, but construction vehicles? Transport trucks? Farm Tractors? Ships, trains, fire trucks etc? That's why we saw Diesel prices skyrocketing after Russia invaded Ukraine.
And US refineries, most relevant for this discussion in the Gulf but also in Chicago and California, are built for the heaviest possible oil. Talking about replacing imports with shale oil isn't just getting less diesel out of a barrel, it's talking about using that 1 meter input pipe at half capacity, because your methane outtake and gasoline outtake are full at that point.
But, as bad as all that, most of the wasted equipment is related to the really heavy sludge at the bottom. US refineries are the most advanced and expensive, because they have the equipment to upgrade that sludge into something more like regular oil. Gulf refineries actually buy the sludge from other countries refineries, that used to include Russia's. All that equipment goes completely unused is you try to force shale to be used. Which is going to add to gas prices, because those refineries compete by buying cheap oil to make up for their high cost, and shale oil has just about the highest production cost in the world, only beat by strip mining bitumen in Fort McMurray.
*All numbers should be taken as examples and not literally.
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The conflict should be viewed in the regional context as much as National. Arab and Islamic malitias have been taking power or leading rebellions across the Sahel, notably the coup belt to the west. Burkina Faso is a center of Islamic terrorism, but the entire region has become a hub. To the North the Lybian civil war, while not as strongly ethnic in context, does have a relevant religious element.
Even to the North Egypt has been dealing with Muslem brotherhood rebel groups in Sinai, and of course the Gaza conflict rages on its border. Its easy to condem the military government of Egypt, but important to consider what a democratically elected islamic government could mean for the region.
The South Sudan conflict isn't long in the past, and the Potential for south Sudan to be included in the conflict is very real. And Ethiopia to the south is teetering on civil war, with Eritrea likely to be pulled in. And further south of South Sudan, Rwanda ans Uganda are brewing conflict with the Congo.
The RSF, along with Lybian mercenaries fought in Yemen under UAE employ, where they were improved in caliber. The UAEs context in pushing these Arab militias should not be understated, nor should Russias role under the Wagner banner in destabilizing the region to access cheap mineral wealth.
Africa is at risk of seeing war from The Congo to the Mediterranean and the Rea sea to the Atlantic. And Sudan is at the Center.
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I used to be against Supply Management. It is in fact a cartel that raises prices. But it achieves a lot, that would be very difficult to achieve without it.
Right now, it should be very clear why it is important to ensure domestic supply of core food items. Can we really risk depending on our trade partners, frankly the US, to control our food supply when they are willing to weapoize trade?
But more than that, it protects small farms. Maybe it doesn't generate the worlds most efficient output. But what is the cost of that? How many rural towns depend on the strong middle class farmers who are protected by supply management, and what is the cost of these towns failing.
Im not an animal rights activist, but I don't want to see the 10 thousand cow factories we see in the US. In Canada cows go to pasture. They are able to leave a building and concrete stall. There is a value to knowing there was a level of ethics.
And just like we are seeing with avian flue, that protects against disease. More, small farms, mean outbreaks don't destroy production. Its better for the environment, look at the the massive manure waste coming out of us factory farms, smaller operations allow manure to be spread evenly over a field.
Look at the health aspect. The antibotics that the cows need to avoid disease. The hormons they are given in the States. I don't want that in my milk.
Supply management protects consumers, protects the farmers, and protects the animals. I don't want to have a hand full of factory farms producing chemical laiden milk while rural communities fall apart for milk that costs a few cents less a liter.
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@iactas7892 While my comment is applicable to South America, I was actually refering the the lower South of the US.
Also Haiti is poor (French), Jamaica, Belize, and Trinidad and Tobago aren't wealthy (English), and Uruguay is certainly quite well off (Spanish). I do agree with your premises, but the type of colonization (Settler, conqueror/extractor, and slave plantation) certainly impacts this as much as the colonizing nation.
Likewise, since colonialism has wound down, the willingness of western countries to deal with former colonies in terms of trade or investment is as relevant as the colonization itself. Argentina for example was highly successful until British investment dropped off in WW1, while much of Haitian poverty is due to Western countries treating it as a pariah state since independence.
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There are two risks to Alberta in this environment.
First is government revenue. Royalties are on a sliding scale; this prices drop of $20 will consume the majority of royalties. DilBit and SAGD is cheap as dirt to produce, but that production will sell at the price of dirt. Not only is that going to remove the 1/3rd of the budget that comes from royalties, but it will mean difficulty in raising or refinancing debt.
Secondly is the Upgraders produces Canadian Sweet Light, CSL, the other benchmark Canadian crude. These upgraders are largely based in Fort McMurray, and they are fed by the mines in Fort McMurray. These are the highest production cost barrels, maybe in the world. Fort McMurray is known for the oil sands, but it is really the center for Bitumen mining, almost all the SAGD is to the south. In covid we saw see mines shut down almost entirely due to low demand. In a prolonged shutdown, Fort McMurray will see a severe regional depression and unemployment crisis.
Syncrude only has mining and upgrading operations. In this low price environment, its minable reserves will be devalued amd written off as no longer economically recoverable, lowing its capital and tanking its debt to asset ratio. It has a real risk of bankruptcy, which will have a major impact across the financial sector and leave the tailing ponds unfunded. That risk exists for the other Oilsands majors, particularly Suncor and CNRL, but Syncrude will go first.
This will be an absolutely terrible depression in Alberta if it continues. But it will be Nationally felt, whether through lower imports at our already struggling ports, a weaker CAD, financial market collapse as all oil majors write off reserves, or a growing trade imbalance eating our financial reserves..
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If we were serious about diversifying, we would be doing it. Canada owns a pipeline company, which just finished building a pipeline, with logistics and trained staff and skilled labour and contractors all sitting on their hands. Work should be starting on adding pumping stations to Transmountain as an immediate option and to keep ground workers in projects. We should be starting Projects, which will take years and upfront planning, for another West Coast export pipeline and an Eastern pipeline, ideally getting Europe to agree to invest in the later upfront.
With Coastal link complete we should be rapidly permitting the Prince Rupert Gas line to keep works employed and lower costs by keeping those same skills and logistics systems employed.
And yes interprovincial trade is important as well. But BC doesn't need GM parts from Ontario, Nova Scotia can't change regulations to import Albertan oil and replace the lost demand. New Brunswick might be able to sell more refined products to Quebec, but at the end of the day that's at Quebec's expense. Our economy is based on exporting commodities and importing consumer goods. If we can't export, making it cheaper to ship internally isn't going to offset.
We need to be going full steam to reorient our export infrastructure. Not releasing the same proposal to do a study on high-speed rail we see every year. I supported high speed rail every other year, but right now every dollar we have needs to be invested in exporting east and west..
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@TSZatoichi in all matters I agree manpower in Ukraines greatest limitation. But a few caveats here;
Ukraine already has to keep a limited force on the Belarusian border since invasions and threats have come from that direction. Whether that force is on the border or 100km North isn't a change in numbers.
Russia is claiming Ukraine is readying to invade between Belgorod and Kursk, which suggests manpower for an offensive. I'm not sure what Russia has to gain overstating Ukrainian capacity.
If the Belarusian population is against Russia, Ukraine may not have to fight very hard over much of the area, and may be seen as the liberating force Russia expected to be. And in any even crossing the swampy border area is likely best done in winter.
While Russia didn't pull people out of the eastern Front for Kursk, I think Belarus may be another matter entirely. There was no risk of Kursk Oblast, let alone the surrounding, rising up with Ukraine and kicking out Russia. In Belarus a Ukrainian invasion may be seen as a much more permanent risk. And, while there is the Union State, I'm not sure Russian conscripts or North Koreans can be sent to Belarus, which may limit the response to volunteers.
And there is an investment aspect. A Ukraine that caused Belarus to flip ~Western might carry more favor with the US or Europe in terms of donations. A Belarus free of Russian occupation may see volunteers joining Ukraine. And a new Government might even be willing to use the Belarusian military against Russian forces in country - or else donate equipment to/ have it seized by Ukraine.
But I did list those options in what I view as order of probability, and I agree a manned invasion is least likely - but that could make it most likely. Then again, there is the aspect of nuclear weapons.
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We need a UN Mandate over both Palestinian regions, with a coalition council of Saudi, Egypt, and Jordan (and potentially UAE and Turkey) in charge, and a local Palestinian police force under their Command, and a small IDF rapid reaction force also acting as peace keepers under the councils command.
We obviously can't have local rule, Hamas is an example of the danger, and the population is widely radicalized for understandable reason. We obviously can't allow Arab military control of the region, as Israel would never allow it. And we obviously can't have Israel in control. This allows accomodation of all.
The mandate should last 20 years, with an off road map allowing local elections for a continuation of mandate, single Palestinian state, two seperate Palestinian states (and a second election for Gaza if it chose unification and West Bank chose to go alone, for example), an option for West Bank to join Jordan, and Gaza to join Egypt, or either to join Israel. That provides skin in the game for all members to aim for successful development.
Syria, Iraq, Morocco, Lebanon, Kuwait, and Qatar should also be in an advisory role, with potential for the UN to swap them in if a state in the council sees a government direction not amenable. And Israel should be allowed certain veto rights that can be over ridden with UN general vote to address security concerns.
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@skp8748 I don't think its correct to call it a full scale civil war, I would agree its a localized insurgency, amd along witht the Tigray militias what I am referring to by teetering.
But if this constitutes a civil war, than Egypt should be said to be in Civil war due to the insurgency in the Sinia, ans I don't think most would agree that Egypt is in civil war.
edit: also, when you say for 5 years, you're encompassing two conflicts, which while related, effect different regions and involved differing groups, with Fano backing the government in the Tigray war.
But regardless, it doesn't really undermine my point on the stTe of the region.
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@Ray_of_Light62 I agree, but I think oil production from shale will.
Shale fracturing for NG will be a long term industry. But Shale oil is a temporary side effect. We can see the Bakken, the first shale plays, is decreasing output annually. Same with Eagle Ford. And the average well productivity in the Permian is declining.
"Shale oil" used to refer to using oil shale, and things like the Permian were called "light, tight oil" because it is light, and it's in tight rock formations. The tighter the formation, the lighter the hydrocarbons. The first wells are drilled in the easiest, most productive locations, which have the least tight formation, and therefore the "heaviest" (in quotes because it's still very, very light) oils. As time has gone by, wells in the Permian are shifting to less ideal sites (tighter), and getting lighter, and therefore gassier. So each barrel of oil is actually half a barrel of oil and half a barrel of NG, when it used to be 75/25. And the half that is oil is still getting lighter, more butane and less gasoline.
The big issue here is all the pumps run on diesel. But the light shale oil has a smaller fraction of the heavier hydrocarbons, notably those that make diesel. A barrel of Brent (global standard) produces more than twice the diesel you get refining WTI (the oil from the Permian). So even for NG fracking, I think we will need to commercialize a technology to use wet CNG from nearby wellhead to run the pumps, which I've seen in development. The diesel to NG equation just doesn't work. But shale oil has never really worked. Because OPEC exists, and keeps prices at a low enough level for the fracking industry to just barely cover expenses. And if OPEC didn't exist, oil would be so cheap that it never would have made sense.
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You say this all the time, what math are you looking for?
EVs displace gasoline usage. Our heavy crude is valued for our distillate yield. As Gasoline demand falls disproportionately to heavier RPPs (Diesel, Jet fuel, Base oils, Asphalt), heavier crudes will see increasing demand as light and medium crudes are priced out. China, the worlds first electrostate, buys Bitumen from us. We already see the price of DilBit and heavy synthetic blends at par with WTI.
Enbridge mainline carries 3M bbl/s a day to the Midwest market, nearly 70% of our capacity. As EVs displace gasoline, the Midwest market will shrink in gross terms faster than the Pacific market. This is punctuated by the fact Midwestern refineries turn Bitumen into gasoline alongside heavier products, instead of fucusing on heavier RPPs.
If there aren't outlets past Chicago, we will see oversupply in a decade. It doesn't matter how much pipeline capacity we have if there is no demand at the other end. That's your whole argument. The necessity is finding where demand will last longest, and that is Asia.
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@Cr3stfa113n While your right on the technical definition of slum requiring impermanent shelters, I don't think OPs use of the term was invalid. After all, we get the term slum-lord from US cities. When referencing North American or Western slums, I think you're referring to a high proportion of renters, deteriorated housing, lower than average sanitary conditions (trash, people using the outdoors as a wash room, needles), a substantial portion of the population engaged in the informal/black market, a high level of policing with a negative effect on the community, and localized alternatives to government services. You also might see little green space, a large number of vice type stores (alcohol, strip clubs, gun stores), a large number of road ways cutting through, and usage to host other activities that are regected by other neighborhoods, including public housing. In many ways, illegal apartments that are put up or space usage from crowded generational housing might even consitute the type of shelter you require. There are also ",suburbs" in places like Detroit where 9/10 houses are abandoned, which some may call a slum.
And I think its meaningful to consider that if you move everyone of low income to one area to could create slum conditions. You tie in laws around rights to public housing and another layer of property security along with the realities if American (and other countries) policing systems, with the fact it was likely built in a poorer area and historically have suffered inferior maintenance, and I think outcomes may be less beneficial than spreading out public housing in mixed neighborhoods.
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The issue isn't failing to see weaning off oil, imo, it's failing to see declining prices. I know that sounds similar, but I'd compare it to the rust belt. The world still needs iron, but you can't run an economy around it.
Imo, Alberta needs to push investment into
Carbon Fiber produced from Bitumen to create an alternative demand
Geothermal, to make use of Drilling and Geological fluid transportation expertise, and to leverage existing equipment.
Carbon Capture, which I think is a very limited applicability, but I think Canada is the best in the world at it and nursing the technology now if properly leveraged could put us in a Global position.
A new way to move oil. I'd settle for a Keystone XL to the US Gulf, which is probably going to happen now, but what I would really like is an Eagle Spirit type pipeline connecting to North BC with a connected series of refineries to diversify our product and market, or else something like bitumen pucks that can easily be shipped by rail and treated like coal.
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China is absolutely aiming for an entirely Renewable grid. There are several pieces of this, one of which is pumped hydro, another battery storage. China uses coal like North America uses NG to balance the grid, because China has little NG. With battery storage, solar dispatchablilty is measured in hours, not seconds, of warning, meaning coal is able to do the job well.
However, I think a country like Canada should learn from China that you don't have to, and shouldn't, hobble fossil industries toward the goal of electrification. These are mutually beneficial. China also increase oil production YoY while EVs stagnate or reduce consumption.
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As always; I agree with your concerns around the near term collapse in Oil and Gas. But the best way for us to Mitigate risk to the Oilsands is not trying to forget it exists; it is wide scale investment.
EVs are going to create a massive imbalance between supply and demand for RPPs as gasoline demand rapidly declines. This will be felt first and foremost by Conventional oil producers with high gasoline yields and the refineries that refine it. Bitumen, and SCO from bitumen, do not need to be used to produce gasoline - there is no gasoline fraction in bitumen.
We need to build upgraders so we can sell low TAN, bottoms free, high middle distillate yield SCO that will continue to be in demand for diesel and jet fuel. We need new outlets for oil so that half our pipelines don't end in Chicago, where Bitumen is largely converted to gasoline, and which unavoidable will shrink in Gross terms faster than the global market. And we need to build refinery complexes; 20% of bitumen can be turned into asphalt, we can sell hundreds of thousands off bpd. With the remaining, "lighter" fractions, we can produce base oils for Lubricants. We can build product upgraders that convert bitumen almost entirely to specific heavey RPPs, Sturgeon Falls does this today producing 80% diesel. We can do the same for Jet fuel which has a much longer demand horizon.
By doing this, we can provide a long term base of demand for Bitumen so that the oilsands can continue operating while we force them to pay off their debts and clean up their mess; if the oilsands collapse, the Federal government (mainly with Ontario money) will be paying the bill for all of it. As EVs remove demand for gasoline, we can supply heavy RPPs further driving out our competitors by pushing down the cracking spread on their lucrative products. And in doing so, we can prevent Jet fuel sales from subsidizing a glut of cheap gasoline being dumped on the market that would otherwise push against EVs and Solar panels. It is okay for us to accept that heavy RPPs will be the last fossil fuel in demand, and we are the best positioned country to supply them. That isn't against climate goals.
We can see China, the world's first Electo state, increasingly demanding heavy crudes - they buy DilBit (not WCS) from us because it is nothing but light petrochemicals and heavy RPPs. This will become the global trend. And over the decades we can occupy this market, we can build alternative demand like Carbon Fiber and activate carbon.
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Id love to see some Coverage of Japan and Pacific NATO equivalent. Japan appears eager to be more involved in its defense, sharing bases and having equal ownership of US strategy in the region. And Trump wants the Pacific paying for itself. I think America will be able to push a defense alliance of SK, JP, and Taiwan (and itself) since they all have mutually aligned goals and American focused equipment. Which will likely be able to pull in Vietnam and Philippines.
Plausibly, Japan and US might be able to pull in the QUAD countries. And France, via New Caledonia (and maybe the UK through Pictan), who is trying to make a play and a Military presence may be willing to join as a Nuclear power and high end arms provider. india, France, or the UK would provide a nuclear umbrella guarantee in the event the US pulls out further, which I'm sure the core members would appreciate.
Canada as well (particularly if you've pulled in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand) has a Pacific coast and may join as well, albeit offering limited military advantage, may join as it has a Pacific coast. And that may be useful, alongside the US and Australia, for resources and logistics.
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@mignik01 So first, I quite clearly said oil would remain needed for decades for both an energy source and petrochemicals. But nowhere near a quarter of oil is used as petrochemical feed stock. Naphtha is the main feed stock and it's like a tenth of a barrel. By 2050 I'd expect US oil demand to still be a third of what it is today, mainly gasoline being displaced along side a drop in Diesel from some rail and trucking electrification and a drop in fracking which uses large amounts. Maybe that gets replaced by biofuels but I genuinely hope not.
But obviously I disagree on the point of solar for Electrical generation. Solar has increased 8 fold over the last decade, even halving that growth rate and it's the majority over the next. And the amount of manufacturing for solar has grown enormously and continues to grow. Look at China's build out of solar. Incredibly and historically rapid. The price solar can be produced for shows a clear market superiority that even Texas embraces.
Again, I think existing NG plants used for peaking will be repurposed for combined cycle use to increase capacity and be heavily used over night. I don't think 24 hour storage will be common until 2040. But 2-4 hour storage for use in the evening is already commercialized and growing. And I think Solar with storage that keeps output generally stable through the day, will continue it's rapid growth.
I have nothing against nuclear. I think SMRs could be a key part of the energy make up, even large power plants in some large regions. I think industrial heat would likely be best served by SMRs, the Oil sands in Canada, even shipping could be transitioned to SMRs. But in terms of electrical production, excluding certain highly dense Urban regions or particularly cloudy geographies, I don't believe nuclear can compete with solar.
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@Silentfire77 Not sure what your point quite is, that there is a lack of supply? The issue is there isn't.
As for needing time to reach profitablility, shale oil has never become a profitable enterprise. It only exists because other regions activitely limit production, which means as an industry, particularly of small price takers, it has no ability to reach a price that returns a profit. Leases that aren't in current use don't have an impact on current production, honestly Bidens restriction of new sites (which is quite limited) is more likely to help the industry by limiting supply.
As for infrastructure, that represents real costs that have to be included int he life cycle cost of the product. The lack of such infrastructure represents the cost of having to drill a new well every 5 years.
Finally, shale oil is different then other oil products. Its mainly lighter hydrocarbons, with heavy amounts for dilutants and condensates, as well as natural gas.
Shale oil has never been a profitable industry, before accounting for externalities and future values of the resources. I am quite pro oil, from traditional reservoirs to bitumen, but Light Tight oil shouldn't be exploited and the industry does not need to be supported.
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@f430ferrari5 The biggest problems with what your saying is you're identifying these people as mentally ill or addicts, but then acting as though allowing them to be homeless will solve that. But clearly they don't think like an average person, because they continue to be homeless. It's not a cure. And it's been well established that providing housing costs less then dealing with the fallout of having homeless people on your streets; city sanitation, the cost of policing, the medical costs of violent altercation, the loss of local property values, etc. People aren't going to become heroine addicts because they get a small apartment, normal people don't chose to be addicts and addicts don't prioritize having a house. It also becomes easier to target services to help people when you know where people will be, to help rehabilitation. And its easier to go through rehabilitation when you have a secure, safe environment, which is why rehabs are built to be tranquil, calm environments.
Like you said, addicts become intoxicated and can destroy thier place of living. This is one reason I support public housing, instead of a housing vouchet for people to destory some average house, what is needed is houses with plaster or concrete walls you can't break while drunk, and hard floors you can't spill things on and let rot while stoned. The fact they will be harder on housing means harder housing is needed for them. And again, building this is the less expensive option.
I would also say by emphasizing this group (which is the majority), you are ignoring that there are mentally healthy people who end up in this situation. And the people who aren't on the street homeless, but living off a relatives couch or something should also be able to have a home. Since it's clear the private market doesn't build the supply needed to lower prices to bring these people in reach, public housing is the most effective tool to add supply.
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My biggest fear is that the combination of Trumps Tariffs, lower global demand from Chinas EV push+ economic slow, a return of Russian oil, and a Saudi price war will will plument prices.
Alberta will be exporting Bitumen for decades. The Midwest US is built around it. But if the price we're getting is only $30 a barrel, you get no investment, no tax revenue, no good employment.
The bigger problem is Fort Mac. Refineries in Alberta can't use Bitumen. So, we upgrade bitumen into lighter SynCrude. Almost all the oil converted to Syncrude comes froma strip mining operation around Fort Mac. And between the mining operations and the upgraders, this is some of the most expensive oil in the world, maybe the most expensive barrel being produced.
And unfortunately this is where all the high paying blue collar jobs are. I'm deeply worried about cheap light oil replacing syncrude. A lot of syncrude goes to Ontario and Quebec via US pipelines. But beyond that, oil could move North from Dakota, and my worst fear is a reversal of Transmountain to bring cheap over see light crude to Alberta.
If the mining operations shut down, we'll have 10s of thousands of high paying blue collar jobs disappear in Alberta, all centered on Fort McMurray. All going on EI, at the same time as Provincial revenues are being slashed and collapsing Exports are making the CAD plumet.
And that will be a national issue. Port cities will struggle with falling imports. Our stock market will collapse if SynCrude (the company) and Suncor write of reserves. CN rail has almost a third of its cargo related to O&G.
We desperately and urgently need to diversify our economy. Im worried next year is the point of collapse and Mining will come on line at reduced capacities after defered spring maintenance. We have a regional economy that nearly disappeared during Covid, thats going to drive a provincial depression and national recession if we aren't very skillful with our trade policy over the next few months.
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The US Midwest is built around Canadian ultra heavy crude. To be clear, our bitumen is so heavy as to not be a liquid.
And the US Gulf is also built around heavy crude; largely Venezuelan and Mexican, but many international refineries actually ship their heavy residue. The California refineries are largely based on heavy crude as well, as California had heavy reserves in the past. However, while these are optimized for heavy crudes, they still demand a lighter blend that oil sands bitumen. They can, and prefer to, accept some bitumen. And Conventional heavy oil (around 1M bbl/d) from Canada is also good. But they don't have the ability Midwestern refiners have to run on our oil.
East coast refineries are built for much lighter blends, being based around North Sea and to a lesser extent Gulf oil shipments; though they keep closing. Refineries in the rockies and American West are old and designed for relatively light oil, certainly not Bitumen. And the Washington state refineries are largely designed around light blends, originally from Alaska.
The reality is it's much easier to put light oil in a heavy refinery than vice versa. You lose the value of your coking unit, and you will run under capacity because you produce a higher ratio of light products than the pipes are designed for, but it's entirely achievable. A few months ago Marathon was saying it would only take them a month to move over from Canadan heavy to Light Bakken.
More importantly, the US exports most of the light, ultra light oil coming out of the Permian fracking, something like half their production. So declining US production lowers exports, but won't really impact US refiners. In reality, this is "oil" in name only, it's basically NGLs.
I don't know if it's still true, but it was the case that fracking actually used more diesel than it produced, because diesel is a heavier fraction of the oil barrel. So you can see how that isn't driving the current system; mainly this is used as petrochemical inputs and gasolines.
So does that mean the US depends on our oil? I'd say yes, but not as much as we depend on them taking it, they have some flexibility, and their production declines are basically in an entirely different product used for different industries in different national markets than what we sell..
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You can see in that first graph where Line 9 was reversed in 2014, allowong Quebec to access upgrader Alberta Syncrude and Bakkan shale oil, pushing down overseas imports, overall imports, and pushing up US imports.
Unfortunately for the same reason, today Ontario is 100% reliant on oil coming from pipelines that run through the US. So until this is reversed again, ending Eastern Canada's access to Western Canadian crude, and cutting back Alberta's market, and significantly the market for the Upgraders, any talk of holding back oil from the US is impossible.
While Quebec could still access seaborne crude, and supply Ottawa as it already does, the remainder of Ontario, significantly the Golden Horseshoe, could find itself entirely cut off from any oil not provided by rail. At least unless/until we have an east west pipeline..
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@LeftWingNationalist I disagree, the Economic system of Fascism is National Syndicalism with a focus on Autarky (although much like many "socialist" or "capitalist" countries, this may be co-opted into an authoritarian regime not practicing the nominal system). Fascist also seperate people into groups, but this is based on area of economic engagement (agriculture, mining) and not class.
However, the national rebirth and historic heroism myths are absolutely core aspects, as you say. Likewise the identification and solution to a "national problem" (although I don't think this problem has to be a population of scape goats).
A correction to your comment, hyper inflation in Germany occured due to french occupation of the Rhine land industrial region and subsequent government sponsored strike, which destroyed German industrial output. The hyperinflation was nearly a decade before the great depression, although the economy was still increadibly weak at this time.
I find the rightwing left wing labels not super useful, I would agree it generally targets right wing (blue color, lower income workers and rich industrialist) electorate, but remember many of the early fascists were formerly communists.
Falange Española de las JONS leader José Antonio Primo de Rivera said: "[B]asically the Right stands for the maintenance of an economic structure, albeit an unjust one, while the Left stands for the attempt to subvert that economic structure, even though the subversion thereof would entail the destruction of much that was worthwhile." while arguing that it was a thrid way ideology out side either left or right.
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@WinterXR7 So to the first poi t we're in complete agreement, obviously the mechanized infantry brigades that led the Kurst assult were not whoever was guarding the border - my point is that now that Ukraine is moving into a defense mode those elite units will be reassigned to return to Pokrovs or a new offensive, and the troops who were previously holding the border will simply move forward to the new defensive lines. Certainly a number of troops were needed for the invasion, but all else being equal the better terrain means fewer units are needed to hold the region than were needed to hold the border. The conscripts captured who will be traded for actual Ukrainian soldiers should also be considered.
To your bottom point, I'd suggest it matters very little of the Russians take most of the area leading to Pokrovs this week or in a year. If Trump is elected, a peace deal would almost certainly involve losing Pokrovs regardless, so fighting harder to hold it isn't a gain. If Harris wins, I expect material and political support for Ukraine to be decisive, and while the fighting will enter the city I don't believe Russia will be capable capturing the city. Kurst seems more valuable to in either regard, either as a bargain chip or as a defensive position undermining Putin's authority.
I think the most determining factor is whether Ukraine can hold Russia a km or two from Pokrovs until the mud buys time for western equipment amd new troops to arrive and better defensive positions to be built, and also time for the Russian economic and financial position to worsen and public opinion and troop moral to turn. And with the mentioned elite units being pulled out of Kursk to return to defensive actions holding back Russia seems achievable, but the amount of ground lost and the seemingly ineffective Ukrainian fortified positions is disturbing. If Russia makes it into the city before winter it will still take months to capture but but terms are distinctly worse for Ukraine.
That said, unless the world is willing to bring nuclear armed russia to the point of a WW1 Germany collapes, Ukraine is forced to take actions which are of greater risk but may offer a winning condition, rather yhan settle for the safer choice and simply lose a year later.
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@mignik01 I guess by default I have to agree the share of oil going to petrochemicals will increase since I think the share going to fuel will go down. But I think that 55% number is many because the IEA also sees a global decrease in demand by 2030. And I have to say that 12% is a lot closer to my claim of around 10%. The point to remember is Petrochemical feed stock is generally the lighter end of hydrocarbons. So shale oil from the US, it might actually be nearly half a barrel. Because you can put those small molecules together to make polymers. But you can't just use the entire barrel that way, the heavier end that goes into gas and diesel and jet fuel, until you get back to the really heavy stuff where you make lubricant and carbon fibers.
I think short haul trucking will likely be electrified. I agree long haul trucking will remain Diesel.
I don't think physics really has much to do with it. I think the shear economy of scale is what is most relevant now. Even without efficiency improvements, the module nature means manufacturering millions of panels and installing millions. The same is true for batteries. These aren't technically complex items. And the manufacturing is growing in the US, in China, and in India and Europe. Look at China, they could built their entire grids worth of capacity in about 5 years. That's just unparalleled. And the US is following suit to avoid being caught with the more expensive energy. Even without improvement solar is the cheapest cost of energy.
Again, it costs less than nuclear. That's just the reality. No one is even pretending to have a nuclear power generation system in the range of solar.
Sure, nuclear is "denser". And? Roof top solar destructively competes with any utility delivered power, if half a block has solar and a battery, the other half doubles all their transmission and distribution fees, which are already the majority of cost.
Solar is highly reliable. The sun rises daily. Utility projects in Texas or the West or south California are in regions where you might have a half dozen clouds for half the year. And solar still works with clouds, just less. And, AC demand is a huge portion of consumer demand, and fits perfectly with solar. Some days you will have lower solar. On those days NG will be run.
But you don't run a nuclear plant at night and occasionally, and nuclear doesn't compete in the day.
Again, nuclear for process heat with co-generation makes a lot of sense for industrial clusters. Nuclear might make more sense in New York and the surrounding area with an enormous density of people and more regular cloudy conditions. But across the majority of the majority of regions, solar wins.
I think it's one of the greater ironies that the US north East and Europe were the two areas to first push solar, when they are likely the two areas worse suited to it.
But regardless. No one is building nuclear right now. Not anywhere near the scale of solar. Even if you're right, solar will have won before Nuclear gets to the starting line. And nuclear only works when you have large amounts of unmet demand. If a region has electricity you can't just add a GW of power.
That said, my belief is that nuclear is a big part of China's plan. Everyone is always talking about them building coal, but you have to note their coal plants are much more advanced than the ones built in North America or Europe 30 years ago. Anything built in the last 10 years is super or ultra critical. And I think they are working on SMRs so in the 2030s they can rip out the boilers of these coal plants and plug the nuclear reactors in.
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"A 25% rise in Oil Prices" is not going to be the reality. We supply half their oil, but the vast majority goes to the midwest theough Enbridge Mainline system. And we have no alternative market at all for these 4M bbl/day.
Whats going to happen will be generally consistent prices paid by US refineries, kept relatively high by Bakken crude from North Dakota and Barges bringing crude from Texas up to Mississippi, and some increased imports from the Atlantic through Pennsylvania pipelines if our output drops.
Our output won't significantly drop, however, because the SAGD operations that feed the US can't be turned off without long term damage (In Covid, Mining production was down some 40%, insitu output was nearly unchanged) and because they have low operating costs, and producers will accept lower prices. The real loaer will be the Government of Alberta, because Royalities are on a scaled system, and lower profits have a much more dramatic effect on Albertas budget.
The other big issue is the oil mines themselves. They are very expensive to operate and ultimately produce a light oil product, and competitive with US shale oil. If its price is increased, refiners are likely to displace it. To some extent this can be offset by having Ontario and Quebec refiners buy more Syncrude and reduce Bakken imports, and a competent policy might include requiring exports to mix Syncrude into DilBit at some level. But this is the biggest risk point, shutting down the oil mines would kill Fort McMurray and destroy an enormous amount of high wage blue collar employment.
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Not all oil is equivalent. When China peaks, it will be because of EVs, not heavy products like jet fuel - that means higher demand for Heavy crudes and hurts those other producers who yield gasoline. No other producer yeilds heavy as much as we do. Certainly China isn't the world market.
Where is the discussion on SMRs to further lower those costs. If we can consider Carbon Fiber, we can consider other innovation.
There is uncertainty in every industry.
But we should optimize Transmountain, of course. That can be done much sooner than a new pipeline, but as the Chicago market, where half our oil/dilbit goes, shrinks (because it is (wastefully) used to produce gasoline), we need new outlets to the global market.
I wouldn't require Transmountain ship partially upgraded. But, I do think we should require a Dilutant mixing that reduces the level of condensate and increases SCO over time to increase the use of Bitumen and uncouple it from the Shale NG fracking, while driving upgrader investment. I would also say we should wave or greatly reduce the tariff for RPPs on Transmountain. Finally, I think it would be entirely reasonable to require any new pipelines to ship partially upgraded (or upgraded) bitumen - that is what we should push for, not against new access.
The US Gulf coast is a possibility. I don't trust them not to change the rules on our pipeline access or ban exports in a price shock, however. I don't think KeyStone XL is better than Northern Gateway, but to the extent Canada can optimize KeyStone (a pipeline we don't control) we should.
As for Carbon Fiber, it could be very good. But, you have been arguing for years its near commercialization, and even Alberta Innovates puts it at a decade until they would be using 100k bbl/d, a drop in our production bucket. And even then, only a fraction of the barrel can be used for this. But beyond the domestic market, if Carbon Fiber is feasible, then we should be building an export market. And that can be done at pipeline head to ensure the pipeline sees long term uses, along with being done in Alberta for Domestic use, and even Ontario to export East. We don't have to restrict the use of Bitumen to Alberta..
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Two counter points to consider. Many of the "new wells" or new production is DUCs, drilled but uncomplete wells. To some extent that aligns with your point on drill now, frack later. But it's important to also see that the drill rig decrease is real, it's not (just) the rigs are more efficient, it's that DUCs have been decreasing over the last few years while new wells are drilled at a lower rate.
The second point is that the Permian basin is seeing declining productivity in new wells, a situation already affecting Bakken and Eagle Ford, the two other large fracking zones. Shale Basins as a whole see declining productivity relatively quickly, and per well production in the Permian is already falling. This is just compensated with more wells.
The last point to consider is the Fracking produces very light oil, nearly NGLs or condensate. Fracking also requires a lot of Diesel. If the US were forced to use its own Fracked oil, rather than sell it abroad, the Gulf refineries it's located near would face the issue of being tooled for heavy oil, and the fact it's difficult to turn light oil into heavy oil products, more so than the reverse. While Gasoline production would remain high, diesel production would find itself very stressed while diesel was in high demand. I have seen proposals to use wet CNG captured at the well head to power the pumps used for fracking. This would be a major improvement on economics - but isn't commercialized.
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I think the premise of his energy super power vision is;
Ability to create foreign influence through energy provision
Competitive advantage in international trade being (at least in part) low cost, clean energy
Large scale provider of AI processing
I would hope the reality is something like:
Producer of; major EV and battery, extremely large carbon fiber offshore wind turbines, cold temperature optimized onshore turbines, cold temperature optimized heat pumps, Heavy petroleum products, (Potentially but only with significant long term contracts) LNG
And a heavy domestic use driving low cost advantage and technological leadership of; SMRs, Hydrogen, wind, Hydro for peaking, geothermal
And of course massive investment into data centers to create a competitive advantage in AI research and export globally not only our low cost electricity, but low cost geothermal drilling and general cool temperatures to a warming world.
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I have to agree with Smith, additional tariffs on Oil would be detrimental. All oil is priced out of Hardisty. We have 600 bbl/d going to the US gulf, where the refineries can choose between Canadian and Seaborne crude. Because of that, every barrel Canada sells to the US must be cheap enough that Purchase Price + Tariff Cost is less than the Global price.
Not only did tariffs not increase, and so widen the discount. But tariffs of 10% were placed on the Saudis. Iraq got nearly 80%. Which actually reduces the discount on Canadian oil, because it increases that global price, and moves the tariff cost more toward the refineries/customers.
Honestly, its the first good trade news in months. Because if oil prices collapse, that will out the mining operations, and most people who work in oil, out of the Job. The recession in Alberta would be enormous. And there would be national impacts as our balance of trade declines puts downward presure on the CAD.
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I am not entirely optimistic about India, due to cultural issues (particularly around womans treatment and corruption), the service based economy, the migration outflow, and the issie of theft.
But, I do think renewables could be a big turning point. India has 8 months a year of entirely cloudless sky, which makes solar far more dependable. The more cloudy monsoon season, on the other hand, brings enormous rains to fill hydro reservoirs and strong consistent wind. And back in the sunny season, wind is largely generated in the evening, so wind build for the Monsson season reduces peaking in the evening of the rest of the year. But maybe most important, India has the worlds largest mountains, which offers enormous cheap pumped hydro storage to save solar energy for night and for weeks of reserves, particularly given how much of the country lives in the Ganges valley in close proximity to both the mountains and Punjab. All of that is to say, of all countries, I believe Indias geography may be the best to access cheap renewables. And this is a huge boon to a country alost entirely dependent on coal and oil imports.
At the same time, India has policy in place that appears to be bearing fruit to build Solar and Wind manufacturing domestically. India has an enormous deficit of manufacturing, and if successful this could lay the groundwork for much a larger scale manufacturing industry to be built. The US has also backed this, aiming to replace Chinese solar imports with Indian (alongside domestic).
Also, India has significant water security issues. So Solar that allows reservoirs to stay full longer, and placed as floating panels on reservoirs or above canals (as is in work) to reduce evaporation can help strech that water. And given India's broken electrical system, distributed solar has already been a success in spreading access to electricity.
The trick may be keeping people from stealing.
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@bittemeinrammstein it doesn't really matter that only drone operaters are holding the line, any more than if in WW1 you said only the machine guns were holding the line. The reality of modern industrial scale warfare is that guided, cheap ammunition is the new requirement for effective engagement.
But Russia is only winning the tactical battle. And that's probably because Ukraine fights the tactical battle alone.
The strategic battle is being fought against the West, and the Russian economy is showing escalating destabilization as inflation increase, exchange values drop, liquid reserves are run down, and sanctions are deeply impacting the ability to sell commodities and recieve the funds, as well as to purchase new capital equipment.
Russian Armoured losses are likely the most significant long term loss, having depleted something like 80% of the equipment reserves across most categories, and the remaining is of decreasing value. Naval losses are competitive for this spot, however. And of course Russian demographics have been poor for some time, but manpower losses and recruiting have been difficult to the point of bringing in North Korea.
Russia has also taken severe strategic losses in other theaters. Natural Gas leverage over Europe has been lost, Syria was lost which will have significant impacts in North Africa. Armenia is shopping for new partners, Georgia is in protest, and there are real risks of Belarus and Transnistria moving away from Russian influence at the end of the month.
And of course Russia has seen an enormous brain and youth drain.
That isn't to say Russia is losing. But I don't think it's reasonable to say it is winning either. I don't think we can say who won until a peace deal is made, but it would require a significant change for this to be anything but a pyrrhic victory.
Also, on the point of VDV, being impressive isn't being successful. This is a testament to Russians abysmal tactical and strategic leadership at the start of the war.
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@lanagordon5669 I believe you are under appreciating the scope of what's already happening. For perspective, Canada has 150GWs of electrical generation, Africa in total around 250GWs, China has 1,300GWs of coal fired power. China has the manufacturing capacity to produce 1,000GWs of solar panels a year. Even if you assume solar only works 20% of the time, that's Canada's entire output built in a year, that's replacing all Chinese coal in half a decade. China exported as much solar panel capacity last year as Africa has in total.
It's already done. The manufacturing exists, China's entire economic model today is built on it. China produced as many EVs last year as North America made vehicles. And they are going to dump all of that on the global market.
I fully appreciate that our food relies on Ammonia made from natural gas (although you technically eat the nitrogen which is from the air). But there are wind to ammonia plants under construction all along the east coast. Plastics and clothing are all NGLs high in light hydrocarbons.
Right now, we are seeing low global oil demand expectations due to recessionary fears, we're seeing China push this enormous industrial output globally, and we're seeing OPEC start to increase supply in all that in an effort to go into a price war and knock off global competition. Oil isn't going away any more than iron production left the rust belt; but it's no longer black gold.
If we fail to push "green energy" what we are doing is losing to China. We will be a gas station in a world of EVs. This is the priority. It's not about emissions or the environment, it's about China becoming the global energy superpower, both with the cheapest energy at home and exporting, while demand for our products crash. We need to be in the new market China is pushing on the world.
China also understands how dependent we are on Oil and Gas, how dependent they are, and the entire focus of their entire economy is to change that. And they are already there in almost all regards. The world was once built in horse, that's why we say horse power, but that dependency didn't stop oil, and our dependency on oil won't stop Solar..
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@drstevej2527 In case there is some confusion, I will clarify that I'm not claiming the Southern Climate was harder on Europeans and easier on Africans. The peer reviewed claim I am repeating is that the Southern Climate was better for Mosquitoes that carry malaria. And that due to the introduction of Malaria into the area, Malaria immune populations were needed for effective labour, which concluded in demand for certain African populations as forced labour. I suppose there may be diseases, like the flu, which propegate better in cold environments. I have never seen research emphasizing this, but I won't exclude the possibility. By and large however, due to existing genetic immunities, I don't believe there was a particular selection bias (not withstanding vitamin D deficiencies).
The Cotton producing states are certainly a driving force for slavery. In terms if creating a market, this is arguably more true in Brazil and the Amazon, where malaria introduction (along side other introduced tropical disease) destroyed nearly the entire native population, and which accounted for the majority of the slave trade. And it is this strong early pressure to form a market on African labour which then led to such strong racial caste structures that perpetuated Black slavery.
I'm not going to keep arguing though. I certainly don't mean to ignore cultural factors like Protestant work ethic, I simply think you shouldn't exclude the relevent environmental factors. If you don't find the research convincing, that's fine. Provide any counter evidence you'd like. This is a youtube comment section, not a journal, so I'll let people who read do thier own research and make an opinion.
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@georgesmith4768 I agree in large part on the first point, and we do have Phosphate batteries already, and Canada has Cobalt as well. But hydrogen would mean an industry China doesn't have a large scale manufacturing and technology lead in, and would remove the need for rare earths and the associated mining the western countries are uncomfortable with.
I think industrial heating is more relevant than you realize. The issue with electric furnace is the anodes degrade very quickly. I may be bias toward hydrogen because I've worked in that area, but at least 6 years ago there was no serious scalable electric furnace being proposed outside steel or aluminum recycling.
As for the last part, it may simply be cheaper to produce ammonia in Saudi Arabia than solar energy in Germany. The higher resource availability in some regions is a significant discount, particularly if you plan on using some of that energy to create a long term/medium term storage anyway.
Additionally, Japan is betting on co-firing Ammonia and coal, and eventually directly in Coal plants, to take advantage of existing infrastructure, and hoping to export that to South Asian countries which also are coal reliant.
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Honestly, nothing that large scale is needed. We just need to Connect
Edmonton to Site C and Calgary to Revelstoke, and both cities to each other, so that Alberta can access cheap hydro when the wind doesn't blow and BC can buy cheap renewables when it does.
Same with the East coast, we just need to match wind with Quebec and Newfoundland hydro. Honestly the biggest thing is somehow getting Quebec to give a fair deal to Newfoundland. (We should also be pushing investment for data processing centers into Labrador like nobodies business).
That mostly just leaves Toronto, where I think the answer is Nuclear, but a Bipole line from Northern Manitoba and/or a connection to Quebec could work, it's an extreme distance either way.
The last thing is Saskatchewan, who really love their coal power plant, and honestly I'm okay with letting them keep it for a bit it's such a tiny blip in the picture. I'd say ideally they get connected to Manitoba eventually to do the same wind for Hydro Trade as Albert/BC, but it's much greater distances for much smaller markets. But, it would allow them, potentially, to sell solar power to Ontario through Manitobas hydro lines, particularly solar in the evening while Saskatchewan still has sun for an hour or two.
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Bitumen is referred to as UltraHeavy crude, and our oilsands Bitumen is very sour. But if Natural gas is the gaseous phase, and oil is the liquid, I think it's more intuitive to think of Bitumen as the solid phase. People usually think of coal, or maybe oil shale, but those are really very different geological products.
I certainly agree with the value loss in selling raw Bitumen. The DilBit mentioned is like a slushy of bitumen and Bic lighter fluid, and when it spills its terrible.
But I don't think it's correct to blame DilBit for the decline of our refiniery industry. Our refineries run on SynCrude, or Canada Light and Sweet, which is treated in an Upgrader to remove sulphur and break down the long hydrocarbons into more gasoline sized ones, on average. And these largely buy from the decades old first phase 1 mining industries, which are operationally labour intensive, which makes them the highest cost oil producer... maybe anywhere.
When they were built they believed there would be high demand for light oil. But the shale explosion has driven that market down. These operations are all centered in Fort McMurray, which almost entirely relies on these mines, and represent a majority of all oil sands jobs.
Under tariffs, oil prices and production will decline in the oil sands. But the SAGD machines that produce DilBit are Monsters, they will not stop, they'll survive even at negative prices for sometime because thier capital structure is based on decades of operation. These also drive demand for shale fracking in North West Alberta, and even imports from the US, to supply dilutent and Natural gas to melt the Bitumen deep underground so it pumps like oil.
I would hope the green party leader would consider supporting a subsidy to CN shipping to move upgraded syncrude from Fort Mac to Irving, which would help support the high employment value adding sector of the oil and reduce imports through Irving, a major employer in St. John at a time when it is going to face significant market challenges as well. It may even be beneficial for the rail companies, as CN and CP rail currently own very considerable assets in the US.
But also, it will reserve those rail cars capacity in Canada, so if oil pipelines flowing to Ontario are ever disturbed, rail capacity exists to replace supply rapidly.
It may also be beneficial to bring an export mixing requirement, so that if demand for SynCrude ever falls, we can require DilBit mix a little into the slushy, getting rid of condensate imports from the US, and making the refineries in the US pay for some of our upgraded product to get access to our cheap bitumen.
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Also, One caveat I want to call out, and a reason I support Canada Oil sands above other oil, is that a barrel of Gasoline and a barrel of Diesel and a barrel of lubricant are by and large not interchangeable products. They all come from a barrel of oil, but they are different fractions of that barrel. A little under 10% of a barrel is going to be usable in producing Lubricant.
So if 10 bbl/s of lubricants are needed, 100 bbls of oil were needed, even if the other components were used for something else. Unless of course, it's from the Oil Sands, where you could turn an entire barrel of bitumen into Lubricant, or Diesel, or gasoline.
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I agree we will never catch up on LNG production. The distance to market is simply to great, and LNG isn't a very high margin market. We can probably expand West Coast exports some, we might be able to export out of Manitoba on the Hudson's bay, if Quebec starts fracking we could export some east. But overall there isn't a lot competitive advantage.
However, we could produce more oil than the US. The Permian is not an infinite resource, it will start declining. Whereas the Oilsands may not be infinite, but they are nowhere near an output limitation. And we can produce, raw Bitumen at least, at incredibly low and competitive prices. Sure oil overall will decline, but there is a 100M bbl/d market globally, and we produce some 5M bbl/d. Even if the market collapses we have room to grow.
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The US should be viewed as several regions for oil talk.
First and easiest is the Mid west. Something like 70% of oil products in the Mid west start as Canadian DilBit from Alberta and largely refined around Chicago. That's Bitumen from the oil sands mixed with very light oil, either imported from NG plants in the US, or from fracking in BC/Alberta. The other 30% is Fracked in the Bakken, ie North Dakota, and mixed with the DilBit at the refinery.
Second easiest is the Rockies (not the coast). Again, about 50% of oil is Canadian heavy from Alberta or Saskatchewan (but not generally DilBit), again mixed with Bakken shale oil.
I'd say the third easiest to grasp is California, which is an oil producer itself. California has regulation on petrolium products that limit where it can import from, and because it's seperate by mountains no pipeline connection to the rest of the US exosts. LA is known for Tar pits, and that's because there is heavy oil. I believe California was once the largest producer but that may be wrong. Now California meets about a third of its demand, with the rest being heavy crude from south america and the Gulf countries. At one point Alaska was a major supplier, but that is no longer (directly the case). Canada is a growing supplier, with trains of bitumen increasing to California over the last few years, and now a pipeline allowing shipping to California as well. That pipeline connects directly to Washington State, which is the only state able to export to California due to regulations. Washington gets a reasonable amount of Canadian crude, along with Alaskan crude and some Gulf oil. Russian used to be on the menu as well. Bakken light oil was as well, but I believe that has decreased.
After that you have the south. Suffice it to say, no one expected the shale revolution, so giant refineries for heavy, sour crude expected from Mexico and Venezuela were built. But with Mexican oil production being a mess and Venezuela collapsing, this hasn't gone to plan. They used to import heavy "unfinished oils" from Russian refineries that couldn't process it. Keystone XL was about getting Canadian DilBit to the Gulf at lower prices than a train. Canada is now the largest provider (500,000 brls a day), mainly by rail I believe, followed by Mexico, Venezuela is about half of Mexico, and Columbia follows that, followed by the Saudis and Iraq, and then a mix to fill it out. Most of the refineries are coastal, so it's a very flexible price driven market (vs the interior where you need pipelines, or the west coast where regulations are at play). Some shale oil is also used as the largest and second largest basin are in the region, and the Off Shore Gulf of Texas oil mainly goes to these refineries. But shale is very light, and not ideal for these refineries due to the high international price and lower output. much of the refinery products in this region are also exported.
The Atlantic seaboard is a real shmorgus borg, but there are a few refineries near NY that import from the Bakken or overseas, a large pipeline that connects very thing below NY to Gulf of Texas refineries, and the New England area generally imports oil products refined in New Brunswick Canada, with the oil refined coming from Nigeria and the Saudis.
The US then exports a large amount of Bakken shale oil to Canadian refineries in Ontario and Quebec (mostly Quebec) since the refineries are built for light crudes. Much of the Texas produced crude is exported overseas.
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I think you present valid concerns.
To the point of securing dilutent, I believe we should be requiring SynBit mixing to create demand for upgraded product, particularly as domestic demand for gasoline decreases and WTI is low cost. But overall I do think we should be forcing the 4 oilsands majors to be building partial Upgraders, or product upgraders selling something like DieselBit.
I agree with your comment on the risk. But I would argue what we are seeing is a literal global conspiracy to push us from the market; in the forms of OPEC price actions, concerns over US market access, and Chinese strategic policy. And I think it is irresponsible and negligent to respond to the foreign state led intentional destruction of our industry in a hands off, laissez faire manner. We would not condemn any other industry, I think it's grossly mistaken to allow such a large aspect of our economy, our financial system, and our exports to be ruined.
We need to respond to these actions and address these risks by driving investments that maintain our assets and market access. That should not just mean Pipelines, it should include product upgraders for jet fuel and diesel and refineries for products like lubricants and asphalt we have a clear advantage in producing and can trade globally without the reliance on individual customers our current model requires..
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@Inez-z2z I'm not suggesting exporting DilBit. Our products are not difficult to market. I don't want a "fossil-fueled vision".
But there is a very real risk Alberta's oil industry could be destroyed, and that Ontario could have its oil cut off at any time. It is very worth while to have an entirely domestic line. It should require Syncrude, no DilBit, because Eastern and European refineries couldn't use it anyway. But whatever the reasonable solution is, we need to have one very soon.
Oil and Gas should only be a fraction of our economy, but that doesn't mean we have to suppress it. Markham regularly promotes the explosive growth of Chinese renewables. But he fails to acknowledge that they built that on cheap coal, by which I mean they didn't restrain their long term growth for short term emissions gains.
If you're reading my posts, you'll know I also support the Mining sector, refining, and EV battery, and also want to see us transform our auto sector into a construction/mining/forestry/drilling equipment sector take advantage of our relatively large portion of the global mining sector.
Maybe you don't think this is value added, but I regularly say we should be investing in server farms because it allows us to export electricity, and taking into account our cold weather, we could do a lot more computing, cleaner, and for less. Or that we need two 1-2GW transmission lines between Calgary and Revelstoke and between Edmonton and Site C. But I post that too..
You can look at videos on this channel a year ago I was the only commenter lol. But I generally agree with Markham on anything else. But he is being dishonest about the level of threat to the oilsands or the scale of the economic crisis that will cause. He reported on the prices in Covid, he knows exactly what will happen if US demand drops even mildly. He knows it's the mines that will shut down and the unemployment that will cause, or that Alberta's government revenue will collapse. And he's regularly bring up the USs hostile stance toward us, so he should be able to recognize that we need to prevent any anti Canadian sentiment to develop right now in the most culturally American province with all the oil that the US will buy at full price if they join.
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@Inez-z2z Yes, we should reverse Line 9 and start using rail to bring upgraded Syncrude to Irving, so that if we need the rail cars for Ontario they are available. But it isn't technically a new pipeline, and there is absolutely no reason, short of an unexpected global pandemic, it should take more than 5 years.
We should also be building out German Style E-Highways in Toronto along core routes, so that local trucking can be electrified for significant portions of a delivery. Which builds onto allowing local trucking go EV with relatively small batteries. That would have a particular big impact regional diesel demand, and be easy to duplicate going east and allow long distance trucking to electrify as it grows out.
But even in 10 or 20 years we will still be using a significant amount of gasoline and diesel, and we need to be able to securely move it.
This is an incredibly immediate priority. Like a year ago I literally was arguing against TransCanada having ever been viable. But this is no longer an economic issue, it's like saying having a TransCanada highway isn't important. If we can't depend on the US for our trade, we need a new line. I'm not advocating Emergency Act, but it is a national emergency. They can turn off our oil, and be called environmentalists for it.
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@ryuuguu01 I apologize but you didn't have to spend so much time arguing EVs are going to see explosive growth I entirely agree, it's in fact integral to my belief we are the most competitive producer. Likewise with Chinese electrification. You missed Indonesia aiming to have 50% diesel sourced from Palm oil (around half their production) before 2030.
Your mistake is in asking who will buy our oil. Canada is a major oil producer, but only on par with Mexico - we have some 2M bbl/d. This is a common misconception, what we produce is mainly Bitumen, at around 3M bbl/d. The question is largely who will buy that.
And while EVs are collapsing gasoline demand over the next decade, they are not impacting jet fuel, which is around 10% of global demand. They are having a more limited impact on Diesel, which is around a quarter.
Conventional oil producers like OPEC need to produce half a barrel of Gasoline for each barrel of Oil they produce, because that's simply how the hydrocarbon fractions work. And they'll need to dump that on the market for cents on the Liter to compete with EVs in order to sell the products still in demand.
Bitumen is all much larger hydrocarbons. A barrel of Bitumen can produce a barrel of Kerosene or diesel or Base oils, no gasoline fraction at all. And the heaviest 20% can be used for Carbon Fiber or Asphalt or Activated carbon.
Or, and ideally, we can produce those products at the coasted head of the pipeline, and export the value added goods. Including petrochemical complexes with gasoline cracking units to deal with the light fractions that are processed.
Even our Oil fits well into the transition, being extremely heavy conventional out of Saskatchewan/Eastern Alberta, or else extremely light bordering on NGLs out of Shale fracking in BC/Western Alberta. The heavy oil is particularly useful for those heavy RRPs and has a Bitumen fraction, the shale oil is mixed as dilutent, and feeds petrochemical demand that is expected to continue to grow, largely being smaller than gasoline. Newfoundland is an exception but it's oil industry will be gone in 10 years anyway.
There's over 100M bbl/d in oil production globally. We represent 5% of that, and our oil is particularly well suited to the 20% of RRPs that will see demand going forward. And can be upgraded to produce the NGLs as demand instructs.
Also, our oil products are also very sour, which may seem like a negative, but with rapidly declining oil demand, Sulphur is actually a very important - the most widely used - chemical product in the world. And there will continue to be demand for it, although it could be mined Separately, I'm not saying oil will be protected by sulphur, just that it advantages sour oil.
So my point is we are well positioned to push out the OPEC countries as demand collapses and take their market share, and our bitumen will see global and domestic export drive demand for non combustion products. And if we don't, OPEC is going to produce a 10 barrels of oil to meet the demand for a barrel of jet fuel, and dump cheap gasoline on the market to fight EVs, and I'm skeptical EVs are competitive at 25¢ a liter gasoline, which would still be profitable for the Saudis, let alone when they are willing to lose money on it to chase sales of high priced heavy RPPs..
Edit: we should be moving away from conventional oil by subsidizing and developing a Geothermal industry.
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I don't agree with this idea "Bitumen is to valuable to burn". Firstly, buring it can provide a lot of value as well, we haven't come close to an electric Jet, and today there is a lot of value in my car working.
But far more importantly, in 40 or 50s, as a consequence of the effectively free energy of the clean energy revolution, we will simply make carbon fiber, or any carbon molecule, from CO2. There is no future in saving Bitumen. It certainly has an advantage for material science for the next few decades, but long before we run out anyone in the world will be able to use air and sunlight to make any carbon fiber item they want for less than the cost of shipping rhe Bitumen.
If you want to argue we aren't cost competitive with OPEC, I disagree. Or that pipelines will be stranded assets from dropping oil demand, I disagree that we can't do added value work at the far end to create demand. But certainly there is no reason to intentionally keep bitumen in the ground to use a century from now..
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@michaelenman9498 Potash is one of the very few hands we could play. However, the US will retaliate to such an obvious aggressive action. They could go so far as to cut us out of SWIFT or even sanction us which will make any goal of trade diversion impossible. And Frankly, I wouldn't put it past them to buy it from Russia. The 25% flat tariff they are applying is almost ambivalent toward us, if they choose to be actively harmful they have the ability.
If we cut off Electricity, we also have regional markets that rely on the US. And, 3/4s of Ontario's NG comes from the US, which could be cut off or taxed leaving Southern Ontario with no Alternative for peak power generation.
We could Toll the highway, but a lot of our trucking moves through the US as well.
If we want international trade, we need to have commodities that can be exported internationally, and realistically that means we need to have coastal pipelines as a part of the solution. The alternative is an enormous drop in exports that took decade to develop.
I'm happy to list the areas of manufacturing I would like to see policy toward. But ultimately, I have no way to say definitively what our new export strategy will look like, because it will be determined by government policy choice. I can only say what I think should be done..
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HBC, Sears, Nortel, everything that became CN rail. Canada has a long history of companies that were so big as to literal govern parts of the country fading into irrelevance amd bankruptcy.
You should be so much less excited that Suncor or CNRL could be on that list. If we let that happen, we will have financial crisis and bank bailouts, we'll be left with tailings ponds, we'll see national recession and deep depression in Alberta with cities becoming ghost towns, mass unemployment and out migration, and budgetary collapse.
Alberta moving from NG to wind turbines for electricity doesn't fix this. Fort McMurray needs to be protected while we regulate a responsible shut down of the mines, industry needs supportive investment to keep it competitive and operational, and the conventional drilling fleet needs to be moved to Geothermal drilling to provide dispatchable power and/or heating and cooling for data centers..
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@annmorel580 regarding your statement, I don't mean to be rude, but I think that's ridiculous. You don't build new industry because you think the global market is lacking, you build because you think you can win, bankrupt your competitors, and force them out of the market. Oil is dying, you can't grow the pie, you have to take more of it.
That is literally what we are seeing OPEC do right now. That is why the US threatened tariffs on our oil. We are the only major global producer not attempting to manipulate the market to our benefit. It is entirely tone deaf to the reality of the market to believe we should passively waiting for investment while we are under a coordinated global attack.
To your question, which is very important, our competitive advantage is upgrader technology. EVs are here, and they are winning. Which means gasoline demand will collapse. Almost half the our competitors output is gasoline; they have no choice, they refine conventional oil, and that is the mix of hydrocarbons in a barrel.
We can take a barrel of Bitumen, and upgrade it into a barrel of Diesel, which will be in higher demand. Or jet fuel, which will be around much longer. And of course we should also be building Carbon fiber production and asphalt refineries and refineries to turn base oils into lubricants. Our competitors are working with 30-50 year old equipment, outdated technology built for a different environment. Of course we can drive them offline.
But EVs are cutting to global oil market in two. Light Hydrocarbons for petrochemicals, and heavy Hydrocarbons, and we can dominate the later for the next 50 years while OPEC is squeezed from the market..
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@BranoneMCSG if you look through the comments, I have readily admitted that Hancock is out of his tree given just how advanced a civilization he posits is.
But in terms of your breakdown, I think you disprove your own argument. You start from the "theory rests entirely on the fact that it can't be disproved" to "1. Ancient structure is found".
And that was my original point. If we tone down Hancock to a much more reasonable claim like "A Neolithic civilization existed from some point to the end of the ice age, prior to any identified neolithic civilization", I think that's a valid theory. We have data that appears as outlier, but without justification. And we do know that coastal areas tend to be where civilizations form, that there was a global movement in coast lines at the end of the ice age, and that identified neolithic cultures start to form following the recent glacial maximum. The argument isn't "you can't prove me wrong", it's a genuine blind spot in archeology that we don't know what's under the Persian Gulf or the sea of Indonesia, and have very limited knowledge of the Amazon (which we know was a massive and advanced civilization) or the Sahara (which became a desert only contemporary with the first cultures forming around the Nile).
So I think the comment is fair, but in the sense that Graham seems to be looking for a genuine Narnia, and coast or wardrobe you aren't going to find it. But the idea that we don't have a serious bias in our interpretation should be considered seriously.
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@DenysBuryi no, you miss the point. No one argues "lack of evidence so I'm right" the argument is "lack of evidence is causing systematic bias in interpretation".
That was my point of contention with the comment. No one believes magic fairy land exists because we haven't checked everywhere. There is, however, good reason to think the culture's in the Green Sahara gave birth to Egypt, or that cultures now under the Persian Gulf gave birth to the Ur civilization.
His point isn't "there wasn't a culture there so must be one here", it's that we have sites more advanced then the current model would suggest ("you smell like bananas"), most human centers form on a coast ("you have a banana pocket"), and that we have no done significant research into these coast lines, because the water level shifted at the end of the ice age ("you only looked in laptop pocket"). There is a good chance there is a banana in the banana pocket we didn't check, checking the laptop pocket and not finding a banana is not proof there is no banana.
The "evidence" (which input in quotes because it isn't circumspect) for Hancock's "claims" (which I put in quotes because I'm limiting his outrageous claims to a point of reason) is not a lack of evidence, it's the existing sites, oral histories, and cultural similarities. The lack of evidence point is simply that Archeology doesn't have the evidence he's wrong, due to a real and significant bias in research.
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@mnomadvfx I will accept this criticism to an extent, with caveats like the exceptional Norte Chico where fishing (and therefore sea access) predates agriculture, or the obvious reliance of the sea of Neolithic Greece or modern era (but stone age technologically) Polynesians.
I should have specified not just coastal, but River Delta regions where large rivers meet the sea. And if you'll look through my specified examples, you'll see they match this specification; Under the Persian Gulf (where the Tigris and Euphrates would have merged and flowed as a single river until 8k year ago before meeting the Gulf of Oman), Historic Sauhl under what are now the Gulf of Thailand and Java sea (where Thailand's Chao Phraya river would have flowed an additional 1000 km being fed by the Rivera of East Malaysia, North Borneo and Java before emptying near the Riau Islands), or (and I consider this a less promising location) under the sea of Azov where the Don would have flowed reaching the black sea. I'm not suggesting every random point along a coast is of equal importance.
The issue overall being "ancient riverways" are almost inherently low lying land, and are themselves both under modern sea levels and where sea levels advanced inland the farthest. Memphis itself, being 100miles in land, would be under the Persian Gulf had an equivalent been located that distance from the Gulf of Oman, as would the next 600+ miles going upstream. This is also true of Ur, and In fact had sea intrusion been as severe as what's seen in the Persian Gulf, the entire length of the Indus Valley and the associated Harrapin civilization would be lost to the sea. Frankly I can't think of an early neolithic culture so far from the sea an trace above ground would be identified after an event as large as the flooding of the Persian Gulf.
I did specifically reference the Culture of the Amazon as being severely under-studied in both age and scope, which is distinctly a river centered culture and not coastal. And the Green Sahara culture(s), (the last point I made agreeing with Hancock as a location in need of study) while understudied to the point of near total ignorance, don't revolve around either rivers or coasts (to our knowledge, which is dammingly near nothing).
And again looking at Memphis, it's worth considering the distance to the coast in ancient times rather than modern. Until the Aswan dams construction the Nile Delta was expanding into the Mediterranean in recent times, The sea level rise at the end of the ice age would have reduced the delta, while sedimentation (particularly in the wetter green Sahara period) would have re-enlarged it (the same is true of Ur, which was far closer to the coast before sedimentation started pushing the Persian Gulf back southward, and may I add burying anything there previously). The age of the Nile Delta is a somewhat contentious issue. And likewise, the head of the Delta, where Memphis is located, has itself moved into he past 10k years several times.
All to say, I agree, you don't just form a civilization on a coast. But, you do generally form it on a large river and generally near a coast, if only because that is where deltas and therefore the most productive land is. The Persian Gulf I believe almost certainly has a lost culture below it based on the cultures that form on its periphery directly after it fills, and research under the heavy sediment that has since been deposited has not been conducted at any scale. Likewise, what are now the seas around Indonesia were the valleys of some of the largest rivers on earth at the time, and are the land routes used by Native Australians to move south (although Sadly, given the availability of Bamboo, I doubt we will ever find much). The Sea of Azov is potentially interesting, being near civilization near the Trypilian and having neothlic settlements identified below it, and while I doubt findings would be ground breaking, I'd say potentially the wheel was invented here. I'd also say the Modern Adriatic and English channel should be investigated as they were probably far more heavily populated then most of Europe through the ice age based on the rich deltas, but I doubt to find anything more advanced then hunter gathers. And the American West Coast almost certainly holds the answers to the population of the Americas.
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@osric1730 I agree, at least in good part, on your stance around the increased intensity leading into the election; although I think this was also Russia aiming to maximize gains before a ceasefire was made available and Ukraine responding. And in the case of Kursk, taking Russian land to make a ceasefire unpalatable and thereby sabotage Russia's efforts by forcing a continuation of attritional war after Russia had made large sacrifices with the goal of a near conclusion.
However, if Russia did remove Ukraine from Kursk, I think it is very likely Russia would accept frozen lines that allow them to keep what they have annexed, and I think Trump would see that as a valid conclusion. Further, I don't believe Ukraine would have very much choice but to capitulate, because Russia, being apparently willing to "negotiate" (with the meaning of keep everything they have, and stop fighting) would be in a position to gain even more land if Ukraine were forced to fight not only without US support, but potentially with US sanctions being lifted and European Sanctions and support ended as part of trade and NATO negotiations.
For that reason I believe it is absolutely essential, in Ukraine's strategy, to maintain control of Russian land so that Ukraine may play the part of the willing negotiator. And in that case, be eligible for continued international aid while Russia is obligated to remain on the offensive and away from any negotiations.
Edit: I mean, there were other goals in the kursk invasion. Tactical goals such as regaining maneuver warfare operations Ukraine excels at, potentially pinning Russians to the Sejm, and taking advantage of suprise and mine free areas. Strategic goals such as greater depth, moving boundaries to the sjem for greater defense, capturing the Nuclear power plant, capturing prisons to trade, and propaganda. But the negotiating chip was always put forward as the chief operational goal.
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@terjeoseberg990 Like I said earlier there is the propaganda factor for both domestic moral, hurting Russian moral, and encouraging western support. But also it's just kind of hard to count right. Like unless you have a visually confirmed body, you don't know if guy died or not. So soldiers are going to report the shot someone, but after that you're going to bleed into over estimates.
Again, the Ukrainian soldiers in Kursk would still be inflicting damage on Russians if they were on other fronts. Ukraine has some of those most capable units in the region, which means there is some opportunity cost elsewhere, and I think indicates the importance to strategy.
All I can say for evidence of intensity is that reporters I follow, Deny Davydov, Paul here, William Spaniel, Reporting From Ukraine, etc, all seem to agree the fighting in Kursk is particularly severe. And my understanding is logistics are quite strained due to the distance and exposure to Russian fire. Those same units in say Toresk would be in a strong defensible position, and fighting only Russian volunteers, which I would say impacts Russian losses even greater.
I agree that Ukraine is fighting a battle of attrition and that forcing a Russian collapse is the strategy. My point is that in Kursk specially, as part of that strategy, the importance is keeping control of Russian territory, since that increases the likelihood Trump/America will continue to provide the equipment needed for that attritional warfare. Which is why we are seeing an offensive over the past few days, for example, to try and increase the long term defensiblity of the position. Going on the offensive is not to the benefit of attrition directly. But keeping Russia from engaging in negotiations is beneficial to that strategy, and Putin can't negotiate while Ukrainians are in Russia without losing domestic support..
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@erickim1739 Thorium reactors are nuclear reactors. Nuclear reactors use fission (the break up of atoms) to produce energy. A fissionable (naturally decaying and prone to break up when hit with a neutron) material is placed in a particular shape called a critical mass. Normally these atoms would slowly break up over time, but in a critical mass one atom breaking naturally will release a neutron, which will hit another atom and cause it to break, and lead to a chain reaction.
Most reactors now use Uranium 238 and 235 (different isotopes based on number of neutrons). 235 is fissionable, 238 is not (it is fertile). weapons grade or enriched refers to the ratio, the higher the 238 the "better". In a reactor, some of the neutrons will hit the 238, which causes it to become Plutonium, which is fissionable and takes part in the reaction. Thats what fertile means, that it can be turned into a fissile fuel.
Thorium is fertile, so non-radioactove. But in a Thorium reactor, some fissile material is included (plutonium) that causes thorium to become Uranium 233, a fissile material.
Honestly Thorium is a very "Hype" technology, it offers very few advancement to Uranium, and some new difficulties. The big thing is most thorium reactors are also Molten salt reactors (changes the way the reactor is cooled and the critical mass is controlled) which offer a wide range of advantages.
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@raphaellagdameo7811 As I said, I have always previously been very supportive of High-speed rail - although frankly Ottawa should be cut out, it increases project cost by an order of magnitude for what could be an easy transfer from Cornwall.
But frankly who is making this trip? You aren't going to be running enough trains that people are commuting every day from Kingston to Toronto, certainly not to an extent it impacts housing prices on the lower end. Maybe some executives will choose it over flying but most of them will choose a teams call. And if we are seriously going to try to fight these tariffs, there isn't going to be a lot of money thrown around for tourism.
At the end of the day we have rail already, and busses and a Highway for cars. I don't think cars are as efficient as a train, but what's the cost of high-speed rail vs the incremental saving? If our economy is good, and you can say a Canadians time is worth $20 an hour, then it's worth it. But if we're looking at mass unemployment and a collapsing CAD, and suddenly our time is worth half that, it's not worth it.
The stimulus impact would be beneficial, but we have better projects that earn us export revenue to support the CAD to choose from. And frankly it's not as though the project is expected to break the ground in the next 5 years in any event..
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Yes but not all land is equal. You'd be foolish to think some strech of Siberian Tundra is equivalent to what is some of the key farm land in Russia. The Ukrainian push obviously isn't meant to replace what Russia has taken, but (along with possibly more), it does the following
Creates a refugee crisis within Russia, which will not only change the local populations view on the security of the country but as the spread through the country looking for housing disseminate that message widely. And those refugees aren't only from currently held areas, but as discussed anywhere south of the Sjem is now going to have a hard time filling grocery stores if it remains russian held, and people in boardering regions will question staying.
Those refugees will not be able to harvest the grain planted in the region, causing a regional depression and hurting Russian exports and food prices
The Sjem river offers a stronger defensive position, reducing the cost of defending against border incursions which Ukraine has faced since Russia attempted to create a "buffer zone"
Forces Russia to fight on Russian Soil and destroy Russian homes, property, and infrastructure, with the real and political costs associated, potentially including Gas lines running to Europe that Ukraine has left operational for fear of EU response.
Cuts off Rail lines to the south and east straining Russian Logistics in boarder attacks and Bolograd - and potentially shut down the Nuclear reactor which would strain the electrified railways that offer logistics in the region.
Allows the seemingly painless capture of over 2000 Russian troops who have the political impact of being conscripts from the richer west of Russia, hurting the political support and allowing for Ukraine to trade for more valuable better trained units captured by Russia.
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@jesseparrish1993 Okay, but consider that most of the NG being produced, particularly in the South, is a by-product of oil production. Not the goal. Prices would have to rise significantly for that to change.
I'm not saying you can't increase both. But I am saying investors won't invest in more production without a clear understanding of take away capacity.
Amainly I'm saying is having Permits based on commitment is important. The overall freeze on new permits isn't ideal, but the concern is the currently issued permits that aren't being developed because future supply and demand is unclear.
US produces way more LNG than Russia or Qatar already. LNG exports are far less important than rebuilding manufacturing imo. And NG prices impact the average personas heating and electric price, not just Cheniere's profits.
Plus, China imports LNG to feed their own manufacturing sector, its imported to their coastal cities for industry. So either you're just making it cheaper for China to compete, or you have a bunch of tariffs and suddenly chinese demand collapses, and LNG prices tank. Or LNG goes to Europe, and when Ukraine and Russia are done killing eachother, Europe is going to start buying some level of Russian pipeline gas again. Definitely not as much as before but again you're pushing down global LNG demand.
I just don't think LNG exports are all that valuable compared to bringing back manufacturing and raising standards of living with cheap energy. But again you can do all these things, I'm not against LNG. But you need to know the take away capacity for producers to invest, and having a bunch of Permits but no one building doesn't help anyone.
Edit: and the freeze was unfortunate, but you can't say you are rewriting the rules without a freeze, or else you will be flooded with requests for permits under the current system before the new rules kick in, and then no one will apply under the new system and you will have no idea of what the intent of permit holders is.
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So on one hand I think this may likely be the start of a permanent downturn. While I agree it is not structurally caused, if there isn't some greatly unexpected turn around from the US, this cyclical depression will lead into global structural changes, and while there will be an upswing it won't peak.
I think the low price environment will disproportionately hit the first generation bitumen mining operations and upgraders around Fort McMurray and cause permanent closures of production. And that would disproportionately impact employment in the oil sands, since mines are far more labour intensive, and the old mines specific as the last two built are almost entirely automated. So there may be a structural change as a result.
And secondarily, conventional producers will be able to keep selling at low prices, but new drilling, which is where the employment is. That will likely swing back in the future, although I'd be surprised if it reaches this level. Although, if we're clever, geothermal could reach this level by then, which would be a very good structural change.
On the other hand, I do think Alberta could outcompete OPEC if sufficient capacity were available. And specifically in regard to an Energy east line carrying upgraded syncrude, I would suggest there are benefits to buying domestic for a declining but still critical element of our energy system. Particularly since that Syncrude locks in demand to those mines.
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@patrickburke7207 so right off the bat, 700x 100 is 70,000. Not 700,000. So let's make that 70 trains. I'm not sure where you came up with 2000 tankers. I also am not going to back check your price, but again it should actually be $6 billion.
Assuming a train moved an average of 50/km an hour, which is maybe high for a freight train, and we are taking a 1000km trip over the rockies, which is a shorter than realistic route, it will take 20h to reach port. I think it's reasonable to say that makes it a day to get there, a day to get back, and there is likely a day between unloading and reloading to tag on. Again I would say this is generous. That means for 700k a day, we will actually need 210 trains, or $18 billion.
And that is ignoring the fact we have an additional 70 trains running a day. Which is going to have a very notable impact on track requirements. We can imagine there is capacity, but in reality you are going to not only have to twin existing tracks to move all those trains back east, but also build entirely new track for that kind of capacity that allows a 100 car train to go buy 70 times a day, or every 20 minutes, alongside existing freight traffic on what is already a congested route.
So $18 billion, which I would argue is considerably more to roughly equivalent to a new pipeline Contrary to Markham's claims, for the cars alone. Making some very optimistic assumptions, and entirely ignoring the safety issues. And also ignoring that we are using much more energy to transport this way, either diesel for the train, or electrical for pumps on a pipeline..
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@samuelmorales2344 I am repeating 3 district claims.
1. Malaria was introduced to North America by Early explores. This does not appear to be in dispute.
2. Hook worm made people in general in the south "lazy". Or rather, chronically ill and exhausted. This is well attested to in literature and was well understood in the 1930s when elimination efforts were undertaken (by the government and Rockefeller foundation) to increase productivity in the south.
3. That Malaria disproportionately effected non sub Saharan populations with high mortality rates. This is the point that appears to be under- what is to me a suprising amount of- contention. I have pointed to peer reviewed papers. Malaria being a deadly illness in the South is well attested and led to national erratiction efforts.
I'm certainly not saying other disease don't matter, only that Malaria matters heavily, to the point the African interior was a near death sentence for Europeans until a cure was invented. I even refered to another disease, hook worm, in the top comment. Other disease obviously matter, all those you've listed help to explain why Native American slavery was not nearly as predominant as African.
In regards to Nigeria, you are nearly arguing my point for me, as it is both in a Malaria zone and the people have a natural immunity. And in regards to natural disaster setting people back...they do? Just because something can be overcome doesn't mean it doesn't have an affect. Idk how, for example, someone could suggest Puerto Rico isn't negatively affected by hurricanes.
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Okay, but you are being misleading when you say Suncor paid 47¢ a barrel, because you are averaging what they paid in total over all their barrels and that conflates their SAGD operations and Mining operations.
The SAGD operations, because they have been on line for a decade and expanded to over 100k bbl/d, are fairly low emitters. But they produce DilBit exported without any added value to the US, where refineries with Cokers then emit carbon to upgrade the Bitumen into lighter Hydrocarbons.
The Mining operations, however, are incredibly high cost barrels, and because they upgrade the Bitumen domestically, far more carbon intensive within the scope of Canadian Carbon pricing.
The SAGD operations are monsters that will never stop and will pay people to take our no value added bitumen away if they have to. The Mining operations are the majority of employment, the entire economy of Fort McMurray, pay a much higher price per for carbon emissions while being much more expensive. And it's not as though the bitumen upgraded in the US produces less carbon; that is why they are claiming it makes them uncompetitive..
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I think when we talk about the oil sands, we really need to do a better job dividing between the Insitu (SAGD) and Mining operations. When we discuss environmental liabilities, we are discussing almost entirely Tailings ponds. And that is entirely a product of Mining.
I would say we need a Production (not emissions) cap on the Mining Sector, with a plan to ramp down and end production over 25 years, with the quotas for production based on tailings reductions.
However, to pay for that, we should be encouraging an increase in the SAGD operations. That provides the revenue for the companies to operate and fund reclamation, and doesn't have abandoned wells or tailings waste.
SAGD is the main growth vector already. However, it is currently higher emissions, and I do believe we should remove the emissions cap. That is not to excuse them from the industrial carbon price, but oil sands emissions are not wrose than those of other sectors. The point of a carbon price is to reduce the least valuable emissions. And it should be mentioned that per barrel costs and emissions fall as SAGD output grows, a hypothetical doubling of SAGD production would not result in a corresponding doubling of emissions, and would increase competitiveness across fields.
I do think focusing to deeply on the domestic emissions of an export oriented sector is a mistake. But more importantly, the solution here clearly must be technology, and specifically, imo, it has to be SMRs.
And to decouple Oilsands from NG, and associated fracking emissions, we should be requiring a diluent mixing requirement such that an increasing fraction of dilutent is SCO, reducing the amount of NG condensate used, which is currently the majority of diluent.
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@Dman6779 I'm going to start by saying Ukrainian bombing of Russian refineries doesn't really impact US oil prices, Biden is more concerned about the appearance as he goes into an election, and of trying to lower global inflation and global oil prices, both to lower the cost of imports and bring supply chain inflation down, and to maintain European support. To your TL;DR, I agree completely, losing energy security is exactly what I'm afraid of, I don't want a crash in prices destroying the North American Oil industries and making us reliant on imports of both oil and Chinese renewables.
oil has a massive effect on the economy because it fuels cars and transport, Petro chemicals in the North East and Gulf coast, is a major part of the economy in the South west, and represents 15% of US exports and is a major component to the balance of trade.
In Canada it's not only 15% of exports, Alberta is also the region with the highest per capita incomes, and many of those jobs are oil sands related. Our progressive tax system will mean that a very large drop in income tax revenue is at stake, along with a large portion of Albertas government royalties, and Federal revenue for oil. Oil sands mining, where a lot of the good blue collar jobs are focused, is a very regional affair focused in fort McMurray, and those Mining jobs won't survive a year of low prices. So you're looking at a sizable city in complete collapse, a provincial depression as 10s of thousands of the provinces highest earners going on Unemployment and oil taxes disappear, and a national depression as a dollar weaken with our balance of trade, banks (particularly RBC) see massive losses, our precarious property market dies, and our Stock market crashes.
But I see what you are saying, and I would like to see a smart wind down of the oil industry toward geothermal (Eavor is a promising company) with fracking and SAGD oil sands in particular being technologies well suited to have investment redirected to digging wells and pumping hot fluid. I'm Canadian, and I really want to see more material manufacturering with bitumen production to diversify the oil sands industry itself. Bitumen has an advantage in producing Carbon Fiber, and I would like to see Alberta become a major producer on the global market. I'd also like to see the NG industry refocus toward hydrogen production, although generally I support the LNG operations in the US Gulf (although Canadian LNG is largely DOA). And of course greater diversity of industry in general in building solar and wind and EVs, and in Canada in particular Mining material for supply chains.
But that doesn't just happen. It certainly doesn't happen if the industry collapses and government revenues collapse. You need to develop technologies, build infrastructure, attact or invest in manufacturing. I think this is very urgent, but the times lines to open a mine are still a decade. And China isn't cutting its oil demand because it's worried about climate change, it's trying to beat us in a race that will decide where energy comes from.
I'd also like to see a Pipeline Called eagle spirit built to bring another Mbbl/d to the Pacific, although I'm against DilBit exports on the North coast, but I'd like to see a large 100kbbl/d asphalt plant, a 200kbbl/d Diesel specific plant, a 300kbbl/d refinery tuned to Californian standards and that can supply Jet fuel to Vancouver, and a 400kbbl/d partial upgrade to sell a Heavy Syncrude to Asia/California. Which maybe you're not going to love, but right now 90% of our exports go to Chicago, and I'd like to see that getting a better price.
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I think this is really a non issue with battery storage becoming commercialized. The 2h units we see being built now deal with the frequency control, which allows them to buy and sell power regularly through the day and provide return on capital. Which also lets you turn off NG plants, and since a 2h reserve into the evening is available, let's you uprate NG plants to Cogeneration. Of course, Storage like this works best with Solar. I think as we see Solar with short batteries grow in capacity we'll see existing NG plants uprated in this way to grow NG capacity for the night periods, while burning less gas overall by not operating inefficiently in the day to load follow and not operating overcapacity in the evening.
In terms of wind in Alberta though, the simple solution is connections between Edmonton-Site C and Calgary-revelstoke. Allows you to sell power to BC and California when it's windy (less over supply on the local grid let's NG operate at raised levels constantly), while importing cheap Hydro when it's not to avoid NG plants monopolizing prices. We already have the Calgary - Edmonton connections.
On the coal point, particularly in Texas where fracking to produce all the NG has such significant leakage, a critical Coal plant might actually be lower emissions - likewise in Alberta where NG is coming from fracking in the North West. It's what China has been doing since they don't have gas, you hear all about China building coal capacity but it's much more efficient than people realize. The much higher capital cost is the killer, imo, since expectations are storage will drop enough to outcompete, whereas NG has less risk of stranded assets. But I do have to point out most coal stations are not bituminous, and that is more expensive than more common Lignite.
I'd also like to see large oil Sands SAGD operations move to Nuclear steam production, and through Cogeneration provide a relatively stable baseload to industry around Edmonton.
And I'm very hopeful for the investment that's gone into Hydrogen in Alberta. Hydrogen might be an excellent way to adsorb solar and particularly wind surpluses. If cheap hydrogen can be produced, then you can upgrade any carbon feedstock into synthetic NG. It won't matter if it's from coal, or ideally, bitumen, adding Hydrogen can get you all the petrochemicals and light fuel you need without methane emissions from Fracking.
I think the best possible outcome would be an upgrader in BC at the end of Transmountain able to produce oil to order specifications to sell to a premium to refineries who need it to balance other blends bought on the market.
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I think there is a reasonable chance to seeing an East and West Russia form along the Urals. East Russia as a Chinese puppet state/nuclear enabled paria state similar to North Korea, and West Russia as the majority of the population in a democratic form supported by uprising, Ukrainian/NATO support, and EU patronage.
If you start seeing unrest in the West, it isn't a hard sell to imagine Russian leaders fleeing east (they're already in the Urals) and the Chinese stepping in in the east to protect economic assets (oil and gas wells), prevent unrest on the boarder, and of course avoid a western aligned country to thier North.
You might also see a few fallout states, Tartarstan, Chechnya, Dagestan form, and Kazakhstan may change its boarders a little bit by short term stabilization operations on its boarder and support to cities like Orenburg, which lead to long term gains to keep a balance between the two Russias.
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@cinnybear9 because it yields middle distillates and base oils, along with bitumen used for asphalt binder and potentially carbon fiber etc.
As EVs grow, they will displace gasoline. That will specifically reduce demand for light and medium crudes. Most refineries are designed to be focused on the Gasoline market, those tea pot refineries will be the first to shut down as gasoline prices crash in the glut.
Albian heavy synthetic and Western Canadian Access both sell at near the level of WTI, sometimes above it. It will be the heavy refineries that operate longest and long into the future jet fuel and other heavy and irreplaceable products.
The Shale ultra light drillers are already shutting down. Shale wells only last a few years, if drilling continues to collapse, it will be over by 2030 taking a few million bbl/d off the market. Gasoline will increasingly be cracked for Naphtha pushing down the value until petrochemical demand is met. Light and medium producers will lose the value from Naphtha and gasoline, and as the lightest increasingly get pushed out taking both the existing Naphtha and gasoline fractions out of supply, that will continue to open up space for more Gasoline produced at a lower ratio from heavier crudes to be diverted to that market. Until eventually energy to liquids technology is developed and commericalized, at which point that will continue to reduce the market for the lightest Hydrocarbons, eating the market for Naphtha, until finally being used for heavy RPPs.
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The oilsands does produce what you are calling ultraheavy sour crude, and what should more accurately be called bitumen, which is then mixed with diluent that is effectively lighter fluid tonflow as DilBit (CSW). And realistically bitumen is no more oil than natural gas is oil. Its steam/water/ice, NG is gasious, oil is a liquid, and bitumen is a solid, which is why you have to super heat heat it.
However, we do have around 1 million barrels a day in upgrader capacity, that turns that bitumen into light sweet crude (CSL). Around half of that is used in Alberta, which produces the RRPs for all of western Canada (give or take), and much is exported to eastern Canada. However, some is exported south, which could be sent east given a pipeline.
Additionally, most of our growth over the past few years has been conventional crude, albiet still a heavy crude. But that diluent mentioned a moment ago is shale oil from Alberta and BC, and it is light and sweet..
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Shale oil is dead. The growth we've seen in US output was entirely temporary. The Bakken and Eagle Ford have already passed peak production. In the Permian per well output is already dropping. Reinvestment is very low, many of the "new wells" are DUCs, drilled but uncompleted wells from below Covid being brought online. The rig fleet has halved since 2019, and again, that's while seeing declining well productivity.
In your top comment you off handedly say its never made a profit and lost 10s of billions. It will never make a profit. 2022 high oil prices bailed out investors, thats why we see no reinventment. Its the marginal producer against a cabal, fracking for oil in a free market will always expand until reaching its production cost, leaving very small margins of profit even at enormous output.
Shale oil basically uses heavy oil/diesel to pull very light oil out of the ground. It's very expensive. If they can use wet wellhead CNG to run the pumps, the economics improve. Because Shale oil co-produce a lot of NG. But NG prices are absurdly low, and LNG exports seem capped at this point. And as the Permian ages, average barrels are getting lighter and gassier. There is a reason Biden can point to all these unused leases - the Russian invasion of Ukraine and sanctions gave the industry a chance to exit the market without a loss it's not expanding, and by the end of 2026 the Permian will be declining and national output will be declining.
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Since we're talking about Energy in Germany, I want to remind/explain to everyone that LNG from Canada was never an option for Germany.
LNG has seen enormous growth, both on supply and demand, with Germany (and Europe, but most Germany) obviously needing alternatives to Russian gas in 2022. Regularly you hear that Canada (or the Trudeau government) refused to provide any., maybe for environmental reasons
But look where supply comes from. Qatar, where the Gas feild is among the worlds cheapest and colocated with the export terminals. The US, where PNG comes from gas co-produced in the Permean basis in Texas, attached to the Gulf coast by an existing pipeline network, and in many cases repurposing LNG import terminals built before the Fracking boom.
Canada was never going to build a cross continent pipeline with a from scratch export terminal on the east coast. It simply can't be done in the market. LNG prices before 2020 were break even low, ans while 2022 saw a massive price spike, low prices are already back.
Germany and Europe never desired any long term contracts. They signed a few, but the US ones all allow cancellation, and signing some weakened the desire for any others, because they are betting on Hydrogen. Short of Canada using tax payer money to subsidize European consumers, or calling it NATO military spemding based on Energy security, this was never a real option.
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@shotelco I would say the mere fact that people haven't acknowledged thier responsiblity is proof they won't, all else being equal.
Your suggesting climate town is enfantilizing peoples, which makes them not feel responsible. But he's literally doing a series of videos on how large scale corperations take multi faceted action to convince people there is no issue to be responsible for.
Your right, of course, Americans are sheep. But being a country of immegrants it's clearly not for genetic reasons. I agree people should think for themselves but the reality is there is billions of dollars spent to make them think a certain way, and there is no way I can comprehend for them to think for themselves with out being informed of and acknowledging that fact
To be direct, your taking issue with a hyper consumption culture in a culture thats exposed to constant advertisement to consume. And then points sole blame on the person who consumes, going so far as to be upset that someone would point out the advertiser?
I certainly disagree the solution is decentralisation. Large scale nuclear, widely dispersed wind, and deep closed loop geothermal should be giving us nearly free energy in walkable, transit oriented cities. The idea we should spread out and try to garden is wasteful and unnecessarily uncomfortable to me. Sure there will be uncomfortable points, but overall I think its an incorrect line of though that we need to decrease our standard of living rather than simply change how we do it.
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@willnitschke I would suggest that because YouTube is so difficult to communicate with, replacing an explanation with an assertion is particularly useless. I also have a minor in economics, I don't claim expertise, but implying I have no grasp is a weak character argument.
I don't endorse MMT and Kelson is a Hack. But the point around the dollar being a tax credit is a point I agree on. It's a Fiat currency, everyone knows this is a creation of the state. Your reply is equivalent to thinking that wheat isn't grown for food because a farmer could never eat it all themselves; people who don't pay taxes, whether domestic or international users, have a large population of working individuals who do need USD for taxes to trade with. It hardly matters why people think a currency has value, how many people think USD has value because "Petro dollar and US Navy"? No one is trading scarps of unbacked paper because it just feels right.
I agree that Fiat currencies compete with each other in part on the basis you are describing. The US dollar is more reliable than the Argentinian dollar undoubtedly. The issues around Argentina spending more than is taxed is widely understood and fits perfectly well within this framing, what good are tax credits when everyone has more than enough to pay taxes.
Look again at Canada. In the last decade both the $1000 bill and 1¢ penny have stopped being accepted by the government, neither remain in usage. Look at the French Franc or the German Mark or the Italian Lyra etc. None are accepted by their former government, and so none remain in circulation. Instead the Euro, accepted by all 3 governments, is the currency.
I don't understand why it's contentious to you that a Fiat currency, issued by a government, is primarily valued by its acceptance by that government. One can pay for another good with any other currency, or choose not to pay for a good or service. Taxes are required in set currencies, chiefly the national fiat but with exceptions - generally based around accepting USD - and must be paid. Inarguably a government can print currency. Surely you would agree a government that printed currency but refused to accept it would soon find that currency valueless. How is it you disagree then, that accepting a Fiat currency is what drives its value?
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@DJC-it2sw I am okay with, and want, BYD opening shop in Canada; I am not okay with a token assembly plant so they can flood the market with imports. BYD, or any Chinese EV company, should only be allowed to import EVs at a value equivalent to Exports of Canadian build Chinese EVs to third parties. Also, while initially assembly plants are sufficient, there should be a clear, contractual obligation to increase sourcing of parts from Canadian suppliers over time, and eventually 90% of a vehicle should be Canadian sources. I'm flexible about EU or USA inputs, but China did not reach its position with free trade, and we are under no obligation to treat them fairly in wanting to access our market(s).
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@imacmill well, I love in Southern Ontario, and I don't love the all of my oil comes through the US, and that most of it comes from Line 5 which Michigan has been trying to shut down for years, and Biden was keeping open for us, and which Trump could choice to have the EPA close tomorrow. Even though I know it would cost some money and isn't directly profitable. Sometimes infrastructure does cost money, I doubt either of us take issue with Transmission lines being subsidized, for example.
But more widely as a Canadian, the US is about to collapse our exports if we are serious about fighting back. That will be expressed heavily through enormous declines in oil volume and more over price under a growing discount pushing down value. We could rapidly lose 10% of our exports via oil, alongside collapses in New Brunswick from St. John, Ontario's de industrialization, and a general commodity slump. And since Canada is a trade dependent economy, fewer exports will lower the value of the CAD value over a prolonged period, will mean inflation. And mean that Eastern Canada is exporting Capital for a good we domestically.
And on top of all that will probably see a million+ immigrants going home alongside a general Property Market and Financial crash, between bank exposure to oil sands and housing.
So I would be largely in favor of risking a financial loss on a pipeline as a hedge against a sudden drop in currency value and energy security, although I think the discount we will see in the future will more than compensate for pipeline costs, and really want to minimize the time it stays that large. And I think it's rather dishonest to quote Transmountain as a reasonable cost estimate given it was built over Covid.
Because the biggest Issue is Alberta. Which will be the center of the depression. Fort Mac will be a ghost town, because the Mines will be the first thing to close and if we lost Line 5 that's almost half the market for upgraded syncrude. Weak future prospects will end the conventional drilling even though conventional output will continue at low prices from existing wells. The Government of Alberta will lose half it's revenue, a third in oil royalties alone, because the sliding royalty scale. And have an unemployment crisis of formerly very high wage blue collar workers, again alongside other provinces.
And all the while Trump will be on Fox saying Alberta should join the US and they would be rich. With Pro American support already at 10% or higher. If we want to keep Alberta, we need to have more of their oil dependent on Canada than on the US, and right now 80% of their output goes through the US. The US, Trump, doesn't want Quebec. It doesn't want a bunch of democrats and retries. it wants the Conservative, oil rich province, full of young people and with a road to Alaska.
That is the biggest point of issue. The Federal government pays Quebec $13 billion in equalization, it can risk losing $20 billion over 20 years to make Alberta happy. It really doesn't matter if you think it's financially or economically unsound, we need to keep Alberta. And we are already in a competition with the US for it.
But also more fundamentally, I think Markham speaks in bad faith around the oil sands. Electrification and EVs will decimate demand for Gasoline, but they are having little impact on Diesel and jet fuel, or lubricants. Look at Sturgeon Falls, we can take a barrel of Bitumen and produce a barrel of Diesel. OPEC and conventional oil get like 20-30% a barrel of Diesel from a barrel of oil, and about half a barrel of Gasoline. Which means high prices for heavy RPP are going to support oil production with gasoline sold off cheap and pushing EVs out of markets. High prices we can both exploit to carve out market for value added products.
And keeping heavy RPP prices lower, and thereby reducing the profit in refining, and therefore produce less gasoline to dump on the Market. Upgraders provide an excellent industrial customer for Green Hydrogen, and alongside the insitu operations, an industrial customer for SMRs. Frankly once nuclear I would like to see Gasifiers to push out the Shale fracking to the west to feeds LNG.
And all that is besides that Fact that Markham perfectly agrees that non combustion uses should be developed. There is no reason not to use a pipeline to deliver bitumen to coastal BC where Carbon Fiber or Asphalt binder can be produced for global export. We can build a pipeline now, and develop industry as demand falls, not that I think it will for heavy oil. I completely agree with adding as much value as possible.
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@Michaelme-de8zz first; SAGD doesn't burn LNG. It just buns NG, no one liquifies it first. Which is mostly just a high-level correction, but LNG does have have higher emissions because of the energy to compress to liquid.
Secondly, I agree. We need to move the SAGD operations to SMRs. Not only because it reduces emissions, but because it dramatically reduces operations costs and it is the largest market for Canada to commercialize SMRs into. This is an area I would strongly support subsidies toward. It will be framed as an oil subsidy, but it is a huge net benefit to build a long term industry as oil demand falls. But of course, the bast majority of oil emissions, even with SAGD, are down stream, and we are talking about a relatively small amount of emissions in the NG combustion.
SAGD is, imo, not only the best source of hydrocarbons nationally but globally. The heavy Bitumen can ne processed to have no gasoline yeild. As long as there is demand for heavy RPPs like jet fuel, oil will be produced, and it is to no ones benefit if that process results in dumping cheap gasoline on the market.
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@Inez-z2z I do want to be clear. I hate that Canada is a glorified gas station for the US. But the solution is not to allow millions of barrels of already developed oil to go off the market or crash in value and treat that as some free market unavoidable outcome when it is the explicit policy of another country.
We have an enormous industry, representing a quarter of our exports, that is going to be destroyed if we don't take action. We can't build a pipeline for tomorrow, but the US can't retool for tomorrow, or reverse Key Stone for tomorrow. If we start now, we can have it almost when we need it.
If I come off as fighting for oil, it is only because Markham is fighting against it. Time is of the essence, we don't have time to litigate this on a basis of will it be 100% cost returning. Hopefully it loses money. Because if a new pipeline is able to take advantage of the enormous discount a trade war will cause, that is very bad.
You wouldn't suggest Ukrainian tanks should be burning less diesel right now. This is a matter of our country surviving. It is not time for some argument about environmentalism, because if the US takes Alberta, they are going to develop it all anyway.
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@Inez-z2z I'm not going to continually harass you, last message I promise, but I'm lingering on you claiming I want a Fossil-fueled future, because that stings and just isn't true. I understand how it may look like that because it looks like I'm regularly posting in support of building some pipelines, but that is only happening because Markham is making bad faith arguments and using his apparent expertise to empower them.
There are very real and structural risks to our economy and democracy, which Markham is aware of and drawing attention to, but will utter ignoring if the conversation is around O&G. It is dangerous, and if he wants to call himself an energy journalist he has the responsibility to report on issues even when they may lend credence to a pipeline.
I am happy to talk at length about electrification policies I want to see. I regularly make comment of them when they are relevant to a video. Unfortunately, instead of using his time and energy to make a point of all the specific policies and projects we should be engaging in, Markham chooses to spend his time focused on the fact that a pipeline under year old economic projections may not be entirely self funding and is therefore utterly unjustifiable, even though he clearly believes there are many times when infrastructure, even energy infrastructure, should be built even if it is not directly profitable. And so many of my comments end up around what he is intentionally leaving out of the pipeline conversation instead of why he is right we need more serve farms.
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@gregmiller4387 the Asian market is over 60M bbl/d. If we sent 2M bbl/d, that's less than 5% of current demand. That will exist in several decades, even if 80% of the market collapses and there is only 12M bbl/d. Our long term advantage is that Bitumen is ultra heavy, and EVs are going to displace gasoline, which will shift to being cracked into Naphtha feed stock, which will lower the price of both products, and push out light and medium oil producers. Particularly since lighter crudes typical coproduce more NG, which will be displaced by battery storage. Even as the oil market shrinks, the heavy market will remain stable or even increase to some extent.
Maybe shipping RPPs out of Hudson Bay. But between the frozen sea and isolation, and risk of ice Berg's in the Labrador straight, I am very hesitant to ship liquid hydrocarbons through the North. Certainly not bitumen.
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@jasonwilliams8016 TLDR; Not a large market for apshaltene rich bitumen to the best of my knowledge.
Unfortunately my knowledge of North America is a lot stronger than Europe. But I've never been a strong booster for East Coast exports as I think Europe is a declining market. It's refineries are generally older and built around light crudes, it has no limited domestic supply and falling demand, and regulation and costs are prohibitive. I would go so far as to say Europe is already seeing the gasoline glut the rest of the world will see in the next decade, and that's going to hurt gasoline exports. It's already seeing a lot of refineries going offline and limited runs.
Although with the 1.5% NATO infrastructure spending we may be able to find a role as a long term supplier of heavy oil or RPPs.
That said, I've always been unclear what Markham is referring to at 10M bbl/d in Ultra heavy crude refining - I think it is coking capacity. The issue with Oilsands bitumen is mainly the asphaltenes, and I do believe that would be a problem with Europe. However, over a Million barrels a day of bitumen is upgraded into SCOs of varying specifications, and Europe would be a market for any of that without issue (it is bottomless, so any refinery can accept it). And partially upgrading would allow refineries to accept it broadly, although wether they can process or the bottoms depends on their capability. Europe has around 7% of world Coking capacity I believe. I remember Antwerp's refinery getting a Coker, and I think Rotterdam's shell refinery, so that's half a million bbl/d heavy.
I think there is some real potential in diverting Irving to Europe. Irving focuses on US exports, and produces a lot of middle distillates that feed the home heating fuel oil market in both Canada and New England. That market is shrinking, and Europe is starved for distillates.
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@negativeindustrial I truely doubt that, consider what you're saying. Who could and would invade the North of Canada? There are three options, China and Russia are obvious.
So China? Not a chance, it is likely at its military apex right now before it's population starts to crash, and it still can't invade an island 100km off the coast full of people who consider themselves part of China. They aren't going to sail through the bearing strait, along the Alaskan coast, into the North.
So Russia? Can't invade Non-NATO member along a giant flat plain on its border full of people who speak Russian Russia? Famous single aircraft carrier that breaks down everywhere it goes and is accompanied by a tug Russia?
Either of these countries are going to cross an ocean famously frozen throughout the winter, which is just now barely being usable in the summer, to try to beach head along a coast with a single highway (Tuktuyktuk) access point, with -30 temperatures all winter unstable frost or permafrost? In an area of so little economic value that Canada itself doesn't use it?
Let alone that, if we left NATO, the US would still protect us under NORAD because the US needs that buffer to stop missiles. And simply isn't going to allow a hostile foreign force on its periphery.
Which leaves the only other country that might, and the only one with the logistics to, invade Canada's North, which is the USA. In which case, freaking Estonian isn't going to help us. Germany is not going to declare war on the US. Poland isn't going to risk it's relationship with the country that protects it from Russia for Canada to have some tundra. And the Canadian Military isn't competing with the US's even if it reaches 2%.
Maybe you mean China will invade some Valley in BC's north coast. Maybe it could manage a foot hold there for a week, but again, with constant logistical resupply needed it's simply impossible. Even before the US turns them to dust.
Maybe Labrador is at risk on the east coast? I refer you back to the freezing temperatures, 0 infrastructure, and 0 economic value. And then our friend the US, who will send whatever rockets are needed.
Canada has no enemies that can hurt it. I would like a bigger military. I would like the good international attention. But I'm not going to listen to European countries cry that we aren't spending enough to protect them, when that's all NATO is. Beggars shouldn't be choosers, the fact we put 1% of our spending into an Airforce that is only ever going to operate abroad to support European and world peace should be enough for them. Or kick us out of NATO. It makes 0 difference to us. Only NATO loses, because Canada was simply never going to trigger article 5.
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TransCanada was a terrible plan, all around. Any conversation around it exporting to Europe was as BS as it powering Canadian refineries. It was a DilBit tube, meant to get bitumen to the coast to send it to the US Gulf refineries. 2M barrels a day, with no planned upgrader capacity, could never go anywhere else, Europe can't upgrade bitumen any more than we can.
It being cancelled had nothing to do with Trudeau as commonly believed, it was first and foremost because KeyStone XL was approved, making this long circuit redundant. Quebec did act to block it, but for good reason, it wasn't an oil pipeline, it was DilBit pipeline, and spills are very dangerous. The US blocked Keystone XL for the same reason.
However, today we do need an East West pipeline. It must be built with complementary upgraders, to send upgraded light crude east. We cannot continue to risk Ontario's oil coming through the US, particularly when Michigan has been trying to close the pipelines for years over environmental concerns, and we have relied on the Biden administration to overrule and keep the oil flowing.
It should be built in conversation with europe, who may be willing to provide financing or long term purchase agreements, to allow more upgrader and pipeline capacity to be built and diversify exports. While Europe had no reason to buy in long term in the past, they have now been stung by the Saudis, the Russians, and even the Americans, and may be willing to pay for security..
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@gregorymalchuk272 1st should include trains and long distance transportation, and the steel plow. Really the Bessemer proceas to make steel, which allowed rails and boilers and plows, which itself was allowed by coal
2nd is pretty spot on but oil plays a key part in the chemical industry and automotive revolution.
3rd should include globalized shipping (container boxes, refrigerated ships, oil tankers), jet aircraft, the green agricultural revolution and fertilizer. Maybe nuclear but that was wasted. Radio should be in the 2nd.
4th is missing all the energy technologies, reusable space craft, additive manufacturing/3D printing, and material science improvments (Carbon Fiber, ceramics, alloys etc with very specific molecular layouts). Maybe nuclear if it's not wasted..
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Im terms of Data Centers, I would add a few points for consideration.
1) This represents an enormous volume of imports, and in the increasing bilateral world of trade, that gives us, as the purchaser, some amount of Leverage to work with Japan or South Korea and say "we'll ensure Canada buys $10 billion a year from you, but in exchange you will buy Canadian LNG, or Japan will work with Hitachi to set up Heavy Machinery assembly that will feed mining, or South Korea will work with Samsung to build more battery plants, or Taiwan will work with TSMC to set up a Chip FAB" etc.
2) This can be used to pivot the oil industry's conventional drilling. Geothermal may not be cost competitive for electricity, but it can provide heating and cooling effectively. Giving Data Centers subsidies for Geothermal will allow us to maintain that workforce and equipment, while lowering electrical consumption, particularly in the summer, allowing us to build more faster.
3) Eventually Canada will be a high cost of energy jurisdiction. We won't compete in 50 years with equatorial countries and solar. But we will still be colder, and so the cooling heavy demand of Data Centers is an area we have a long term advantage.
4) Canada is a trusted jurisdiction. Data Centers are in many ways like banks, and you want your data somewhere you trust not to steal it. This can build on and build our reputation, and make us something akin to a Switzerland of Data.
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@ryuuguu01 the numbers are entirely arbitrary, but 500k bbl/d is roughly Northern Gateway, and Alberta innovates claims it could be processing 100k bbl/d in 10 years, so ramping up to 1M bbl/d over severa decades seems reasonable.
In reference to Sudbury, all conversation around the ring of fire seems to assume ore will be shipped to Sudbury to be refined, considerably farther than Toronto. But also, refining in this context would be the Bitumen cleaning process, which is obviously still some on site in Alberta. Making Carbon fiber is like making sheet metal.
I agree that you want economies of scale and local ecosystems. If we look at the Chinese example in Solar, silicon is produced inland in the West in Xinjiang, but Solar Cells are produced from that material on the Coast in Jiangsu as the major hub, but with other less prominent hubs in other coastal states.
I don't know what to say except it is very normal to focus manufacturing in coastal areas for logistics and employment reasons. This is the same as your statement on wind, extract the resource where it's profitable, and then ship it somewhere to use it.
The reason to duplicate the economy is for scale and because we have a natural advantage, and producing it in Alberta would be more expensive to export west. But also, I don't think it's sublet in suggesting we could build a pipeline and export oil today while scaling up that manufacturing over the next decades so that we get the benefit of oil exports without the risk of stranded assets.
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@richi1618 I imagine I'd be using a BlackBerry and we'd still make cellphones.
China doesn't believe in free trade, it does not exercise free trade, and free trade is not how it developed its manufacturing, including the EVs you want to buy. Blanket tariffs are obviously bad policy, competition is clearly important, but selective tariffs are an essential element of industrial policy, particularly when China is trying to dump in your market.
If you want to end up with a far right radical government, go ahead and kill off manufacturing. Look at Europe, look at the US, deindustrializing yourself for cheap Chinese imports is a clear pathway to destabilizing society. We are about to lose oil, we are about to lose ICE auto. We need this. If you want to be able to import Chinese Evs, we need to have an export.
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@richi1618 I imagine I'd be using a BlackBerry and we'd still make cellphones.
China doesn't believe in free trade, it does not exercise free trade, and free trade is not how it developed its manufacturing, including the EVs you want to buy. Blanket tariffs are obviously bad policy, competition is clearly important, but selective tariffs are an essential element of industrial policy, particularly when China is trying to dump in your market.
If you want to end up with a far right radical government, go ahead and kill off manufacturing. Look at Europe, look at the US, deindustrializing yourself for cheap Chinese imports is a clear pathway to destabilizing society. We are about to lose oil, we are about to lose ICE auto. We need this. If you want to be able to import Chinese Evs, we need to have an export..
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@richi1618 I imagine I'd be using a BlackBerry and we'd still make cellphones.
China doesn't believe in free trade, it does not exercise free trade, and free trade is not how it developed its manufacturing, including the EVs you want to buy. Blanket tariffs are obviously bad policy, competition is clearly important, but selective tariffs are an essential element of industrial policy, particularly when China is trying to dump in your market.
If you want to end up with a far right radical government, go ahead and undermine manufacturing. Look at Europe, look at the US, deindustrializing yourself for cheap Chinese imports is a clear pathway to destabilizing society. We are about to lose oil, we are about to lose ICE auto. We need this. If you want to be able to import Chinese Evs, we need to have an export..
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@PeterWitherspoon-x4p Ultimately, my reply is What is your point?
I would emphasize that; China is the world's largest importer and determined to remove dependence and EVs are rapidly displacing gasoline which is almost half of every barrel of oil - which will demand higher prices for jet fuel or diesel to compensate for dumping gasoline (even in a reduced oil price environment), and so I think this should be seen in the wider context of a strategic move by China cripple the US economy while removing its own main weakness
But most importantly, even if oil stays at 100M bbl/d, it will clearly be at a much lower price for the foreseeable future. OPEC is increasing production to try and capture the market and grow a market in Africa, so low prices to drive out Shale oil and EVs are here permanently, or else EVs will increasingly destroy the market. And OPEC will keep prices low, or collapse entirely and lead to a free market based on competition in oil production and truely drive down oil values. Without the supply constraint of OPEC and with the demand destruction of EVs Oil is not the valuable commodity an intentional monopoly has made it appear, and without that market restraint it's not black gold.
I think it's very possible oil demand will maintain, and at the very least I think SAGD in the oilsands can increase production in the face of global declines and low prices. But I think the era of oil as printing money has ended, and oil is now just another commodity without considerable royalties or particularly high profits..
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@PeterWitherspoon-x4p Ultimately, my reply is What is your point?
I would emphasize that; China is the world's largest importer and determined to remove dependence and EVs are rapidly displacing gasoline which is almost half of every barrel of oil - which will demand higher prices for jet fuel or diesel to compensate for dumping gasoline (even in a reduced oil price environment), and so I think this should be seen in the wider context of a strategic move by China cripple the US economy while removing its own main weakness
But most importantly, even if oil stays at 100M bbl/d, it will clearly be at a much lower price for the foreseeable future. OPEC is increasing production to try and capture the market and grow a market in Africa, so low prices to drive out Shale oil and EVs are here permanently, or else EVs will increasingly destroy the market. And OPEC will keep prices low, or collapse entirely and lead to a free market based on competition in oil production and truely drive down oil values. Without the supply constraint of OPEC and with the demand destruction of EVs Oil is not the valuable commodity an intentional monopoly has made it appear, and without that market restraint it's not black gold.
I think it's very possible oil demand will maintain, and at the very least I think SAGD in the oilsands can increase production in the face of global declines and low prices. But I think the era of oil as printing money has ended, and oil is now just another commodity without considerable royalties or particularly high profits. And we need to be considerate of that when discussing future investment and outcomes.
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@PeterWitherspoon-x4p honestly, in 4/5 of my posts, I'm arguing for the oilsands. I am supportive of the Canadian Oil industry, or at least the SAGD operations in the oilsands.
But you are completely missing the reality of the situation. If OPEC could maintain an $80 barrel, they would be. The Saudis have been struggling with members going over quotas while the shale oil producers and offshore south American producers steal market share for the last decade.
And now the Chinese market, the largest importer in the world, is collapsing. China is increasing its own production, even if it halves demand imports become inconsequential. And it will halve demand, it is determined, beyond any economic metric, to not depend on seaborne oil imports. It literally produced more EVs last year than North America produced vehicles. Its goal is to distrupt the oil market.
Passenger vehicles may be 25% of oil demand. But that is almost entirely gasoline. Gasoline is half of every conventional barrel. If the market for gasoline collapses, that impacts every other market. The 10% of a barrel going to Jet fuel costs a lot more if no one will buy the half that is gasoline.
This is literally why I think Canada can be the last producer in the export market. Bitumen can produce all the heavy RPPs (jet fuel, diesel, base oils for lubricants), along with dominating the global asphalt market, without dealing with any unwanted gasoline.
But China is not the only country producing EVs. It is not the only country that wants energy independence. the gasoline demand will go away. This is a structural issue. EVs were taking market demand even in South America and South Asia, that is why OPEC has dropped prices, it needs to fight off EVs. And going forward, EVs will only get less expensive with Chinese over capacity, and any attempt to raise prices will lose long term market share..
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@PeterWitherspoon-x4p .
honestly, in 4/5 of my posts, I'm arguing for the oilsands. I am supportive of the Canadian Oil industry, or at least the SAGD operations in the oilsands.
But you are completely missing the reality of the situation. If OPEC could maintain an $80 barrel, they would be. The Saudis have been struggling with members going over quotas while the shale oil producers and offshore south American producers steal market share for the last decade.
And now the Chinese market, the largest importer in the world, is collapsing. China is increasing its own production, even if it halves demand imports become inconsequential. And it will halve demand, it is determined, beyond any economic metric, to not depend on seaborne oil imports. It literally produced more EVs last year than North America produced vehicles. Its goal is to distrupt the oil market.
Passenger vehicles may be 25% of oil demand. But that is almost entirely gasoline. Gasoline is half of every conventional barrel. If the market for gasoline collapses, that impacts every other market. The 10% of a barrel going to Jet fuel costs a lot more if no one will buy the half that is gasoline.
This is literally why I think Canada can be the last producer in the export market. Bitumen can produce all the heavy RPPs (jet fuel, diesel, base oils for lubricants), along with dominating the global asphalt market, without dealing with any unwanted gasoline.
But China is not the only country producing EVs. It is not the only country that wants energy independence. the gasoline demand will go away. This is a structural issue. EVs were taking market demand even in South America and South Asia, that is why OPEC has dropped prices, it needs to fight off EVs. And going forward, EVs will only get less expensive with Chinese over capacity, and any attempt to raise prices will lose long term market share.
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@PeterWitherspoon-x4p honestly, in 4/5 of my posts, I'm arguing for the oilsands. I am supportive of the Canadian Oil industry, or at least the SAGD operations in the oilsands.
But you are completely missing the reality of the situation. If OPEC could maintain an $80 barrel, they would be. The Saudis have been struggling with members going over quotas while the shale oil producers and offshore south American producers steal market share for the last decade.
And now the Chinese market, the largest importer in the world, is collapsing. China is increasing its own production, even if it halves demand imports become inconsequential. And it will halve demand, it is determined, beyond any economic metric, to not depend on seaborne oil imports. It literally produced more EVs last year than North America produced vehicles. Its goal is to distrupt the oil market.
Passenger vehicles may be 25% of oil demand. But that is almost entirely gasoline. Gasoline is half of every conventional barrel. If the market for gasoline collapses, that impacts every other market. The 10% of a barrel going to Jet fuel costs a lot more if no one will buy the half that is gasoline.
This is literally why I think Canada can be the last producer in the export market. Bitumen can produce all the heavy RPPs (jet fuel, diesel, base oils for lubricants), along with dominating the global asphalt market, without dealing with any unwanted gasoline.
But China is not the only country producing EVs. It is not the only country that wants energy independence. the gasoline demand will go away. This is a structural issue. EVs were taking market demand even in South America and South Asia, that is why OPEC has dropped prices, it needs to fight off EVs. And going forward, EVs will only get less expensive with Chinese over capacity, and any attempt to raise prices will lose long term market share..
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@Niko C "I don't care what's simply most efficient, humans are not robots. I care what yeilds the best living standards for people"
You some kinda communist then? Would you say you have a similar view on health care or wage laws or taxation of the wealthy for redistribution?
But also, does "best living standards" not included lung disease and pedestrian deaths? Or deaths in car accidents more widely? Or time in traffic or commute?
I also see you say its an objective fact more crime happens on a public transit, but thats blatantly false. 11,654 people died in car crashes involving just a druck driver, whereas 291 died (in total) on public transit in the US in 2020. By impact on mortality or number of crimes I think its pretty clear public transit is lower.
"having to share your personal space with other people, without your concent, is not freedom"
I mean, if your personal space is the space you occupy, you are correctly describing rape and its not freedom. But if we're not talking about the space you literally occupy, the. what is "your personal space" Does the UN or the USA or any country have a legal definition of the area around you you legally control? It sounds like you're claiming other people existing is a problem.
You also ask why you should build ywo parallel systems? How is two lanes in the same direction not literally that? Because they both use cars? That argument is easily equivalent to saying tall buildings would find it cheaper to build an extra elevator over a flight of stairs, obviously incorrect. And what then makes it a "parallel system"? Can we put a bus on the second lane or is that now redundant. What if we build it just for the bus because of high demand, or is redundant whenever cars can't use something (in which case a bed is "redundant"). And of course saying a bus lane is good but putting tracks on it is bad makes no sense, so I'm really unclear on where the system become parallel and redundant.
Last point, your are aware they don't strap you into public transit? And if you don't like who you're near you can move? But yes everyone knows cars take up more than 2 square meters that is the issue- that its impossible to use cars in a dense environment because space is a limitation.
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@scottcincinnatikid9804 I think you really need to decide who the "proponents" are. I really suggest listening to Warren Mosler on YouTube. He actually debates Bob Murphy from this video. Bill Mitchell is also worth listening to. They are widely seen as the founders, and I tend to think they are speaking about the correct way the monetary system operates.
Then you have Stephanie Kelton here, who seems to actively misrepresent and represent in the most confusing terms possible MMT, and baits people who want certain policies into believing they can be gotten for free. While these people might say they support MMT, I don't believe they actually understand anything other than a vague idea of money creation.
While obviously many supporters of MMT do believe some degree of central planning is beneficial, I don't think it's correct to frame MMT in general as being any more supportive of Central Planning than a Central Bank and fiat currency inherently is.
The fact that radical elements might misrepresent something to justify spending they, as you point out, were going to justify regardless has no bearing on that initial thing's, here MMT's, validity.
But a correction; the Fed doesn't use interest to create reserves. Reserves are created through asset purchases. Interest recieved by the Fed goes to the treasury as general revenue, after subtracting operating expenses. If the balance is negative, the Treasury pays the difference.
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@scottcincinnatikid9804 I don't recall this coming up from either Bob or Warren, I may rewatch and get back to you, but I've seen Warren in several interviews and he's certainly not shy about the reality of government lending or implicitly suggesting the Fed buys all debt. I'd be surprised if Bob had left such an easy point I scored. Sorry if I'm digging something old up, I didn't see myself replying to when I was trying to figure out what the guy replying to me was referencing.
In my longer reply, I certainly agreed with the point Kelton isn't being genuine, but that wouldn't post.
I do have to say I think it's an entirely ideological point to suggest the government can only achieve a zero sum gain. You could suggest empirically it's rare, and we could debate the point. But I can point to a number of Governments, Norway, Singapore, Switzerland, who have very apparently grown wealth.
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@scottcincinnatikid9804 I don't have any strong objections to these points. And your third sentence is non-confrontational. The only thing somewhat nebulous is the fourth sentence, because MMT suggests (and not only MMT) that while the government while take after giving, the giving will create enough benefits it is still worth while.
I would say we shouldn't vote off Proverbs, and that the concept of MMT says we should vote for responsible financiers.
I guess my main disagreement, I should be clear it is not inherent, is "The borrowing happening now, even if held by the Fed, will require future debt servicing cost, meaning less". You'll never find a successful business afraid to borrow. While technically I agree, borrowing means repayment with interest, I don't agree that implies less.
We should expect our elected government to invest well enough that less is not the outcome. A failure in this is a failure in the democratic concept. I would never expect the public sector to invest better than the best of the private sector, but I do believe proper investment into infrastructure and a nation's comparative or strategic advantages leveraged at the relatively low borrowing rates nations face can be advantageous. Honestly, if someone ran on the idea of giving every citizen a savings account funded by national borrowing, where we could only keep the dividend payments, I'd have to think very seriously about what I thought of the lower end of society. The low cost of national borrowing is enticing.
"Government spending for the most part is just reclassification of who will consume". Even on this point, between tax and borrowing, I'm not sure tax is the better choice. Taxing means taking away from productive investment, borrowing means taking away from the least productive investments. Does the economy really grow better under an income tax that pays for education than borrowing now in the expectation those educated will grow the economy? I find it hard to square.
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@michaelenman9498 you need to understand this really isn't true. I am very frustrated at Canadians for not understanding we can in fact be hurt by these policies and Americans largely won't be.
Let's look at oil. We have seen during Covid and 2018 what happens when we do not have sufficient take away capacity. All oil is priced out of Hardisty, AB. 600k bbl/d goes south through Keystone to the Gulf Coast refineries. If a selective tariff is placed on Canada, then for our oil to sell in the Gulf where international crude is available, the purchase price, aka the price in Hardisty + the fee for the tariff, cannot be higher than the global price. We will see a discount on oil to accommodate the additional cost purchasers pay in tariff, or else we will lose the 600k bbl/d to international competition, which would be worse for prices. A discount that will be available to all purchases, including the Midwest. We literally saw price movements the day of the tariff taking off an immediate 4% relative to US WTI.
Let's look at Aluminum or Iron. What is the alternative market? We will have to ship by rail to the Pacific, and then oversea. That is significant transportation cost. So long as a Tariff does not drive down prices to the point producers are losing revenue, we will adsorb most of the cost in the form of lower profits and capital write downs.
Manufacturing and the complex supply chain will be reflected in substantially higher prices. But a new car is not an essential or regular purchase. Auto manufacturers will move production to the US over the next few years, even without a tariff, if this uncertainty continues. Do you think Trump, backed by Musk, cares if Ford goes under? If they destroy a massive private sector union? Tariffs here will increase prices in the medium term, but that will only make Tesla more competitive in the US and take manufacturing away from Canada.
And all of this is going to weaken the CAD. A weaker CAD will suppress our export prices across the board. There may be some level of higher prices on certain goods. But they did the same thing to China in 2018, and the renminbi fell to adsorb almost the entire price difference. And Canada is far more reliant on US trade, and in particular export purchases.
We cannot fight this trade war if we aren't going to acknowledge the impact. Do you honestly believe these tariffs will have nearly the impact on us it will on them? What do you think happens when our economy crashes? I don't understand how people can believe this Econ 101 nonsense is actually applicable.
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@michaelenman9498 you need to understand this really isn't true. I am very frustrated at Canadians for not understanding we can in fact be hurt by these policies and Americans largely won't be.
Let's look at oil. We have seen during Covid and 2018 what happens when we do not have sufficient take away capacity. All oil is priced out of Hardisty, AB. 600k bbl/d goes south through Keystone to the Gulf Coast refineries. If a selective tariff is placed on Canada, then for our oil to sell in the Gulf where international crude is available, the purchase price, aka the price in Hardisty + the fee for the tariff, cannot be higher than the global price. We will see a discount on oil to accommodate the additional cost purchasers pay in tariff, or else we will lose the 600k bbl/d to international competition, which would be worse for prices. A discount that will be available to all purchases, including the Midwest. We literally saw price movements the day of the tariff taking off an immediate 4% relative to US WTI.
Let's look at Aluminum or Iron. What is the alternative market? We will have to ship by rail to the Pacific, and then oversea. That is significant transportation cost. So long as a Tariff does not drive down prices to the point producers are losing revenue, we will adsorb most of the cost in the form of lower profits and capital write downs.
Manufacturing and the complex supply chain will be reflected in substantially higher prices. But a new car is not an essential or regular purchase. Auto manufacturers will move production to the US over the next few years, even without a tariff, if this uncertainty continues. Do you think Trump, backed by Musk, cares if Ford goes under? If they destroy a massive private sector union? Tariffs here will increase prices in the medium term, but that will only make Tesla more competitive in the US and take manufacturing away from Canada.
And all of this is going to weaken the CAD. A weaker CAD will suppress our export prices across the board. There may be some level of higher prices on certain goods. But they did the same thing to China in 2018, and the renminbi fell to adsorb almost the entire price difference. And Canada is far more reliant on US trade, and in particular export purchases.
We cannot fight this trade war if we aren't going to acknowledge the impact. Do you honestly believe these tariffs will have nearly the impact on us it will on them? What do you think happens when our economy crashes? I don't understand how people can believe this Econ 101 nonsense is actually applicable.
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@michaelenman9498 you need to understand this really isn't true. I am very frustrated at Canadians for not understanding we can in fact be hurt by these policies and Americans largely won't be.
Let's look at oil. We have seen during Covid and 2018 what happens when we do not have sufficient take away capacity. All oil is priced out of Hardisty, AB. 600k bbl/d goes south through Keystone to the Gulf Coast refineries. If a selective tariff is placed on Canada, then for our oil to sell in the Gulf where international crude is available, the purchase price, aka the price in Hardisty + the fee for the tariff, cannot be higher than the global price. We will see a discount on oil to accommodate the additional cost purchasers pay in tariff, or else we will lose the 600k bbl/d to international competition, which would be worse for prices. A discount that will be available to all purchases, including the Midwest. We literally saw price movements the day of the tariff taking off an immediate 4% relative to US WTI.
Let's look at Aluminum or Iron. What is the alternative market? We will have to ship by rail to the Pacific, and then oversea. That is significant transportation cost. So long as a Tariff does not drive down prices to the point producers are losing revenue, we will adsorb most of the cost in the form of lower profits and capital write downs.
Manufacturing and the complex supply chain will be reflected in substantially higher prices. But a new car is not an essential or regular purchase. Auto manufacturers will move production to the US over the next few years, even without a tariff, if this uncertainty continues. Do you think the guy by backed by Musk cares if GM goes under? If they destroy a massive private sector union? Tariffs here will increase prices in the medium term, but that will only make Tesla more competitive in the US and take manufacturing away from Canada.
And all of this is going to weaken the CAD. A weaker CAD will suppress our export prices across the board. There may be some level of higher prices on certain goods. But they did the same thing to China in 2018, and the renminbi fell to adsorb almost the entire price difference. And Canada is far more reliant on US trade, and in particular export purchases.
We cannot fight this trade war if we aren't going to acknowledge the impact. Do you honestly believe these tariffs will have nearly the impact on us it will on them? What do you think happens when our economy crashes? I don't understand how people can believe this Econ 101 nonsense is actually applicable.
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@PARAN0IDxGERBIL I disagree with that assessment, and certainly with the comparison to Iraq.
From a Global perspective we have seen grain and oil shortages drive up prices. Europe has seen spiked energy prices, and while improved, is seeing a loss of manufacturering largely related to energy costs. The Global Artillery shell market has seen massive inflation showing how this conflict has pulled in a large amount of the world's military production in key fields.
Fighting in North Africa; the Sahel, Libya, and Sudan, has been influenced by both sides. The alignment with Iran has greatly increased its funding and ability to fund proxies, it's possible we have even seen Russia arms being delivered to Houthis to use against global shipping. Recent escalatory behavior by North Korea is also obviously connected.
I think the amount of material, scale of casualties, and global involvement in supplying both sides makes this far more comparable to the opening years of either world war than to a fast past Maneuver Campaign followed by longer term anti insurgency operation that we have seen since Vietnam.
And of course, there is risk of Nuclear weapons being used. It may be low, but at this point two allied belligerents are nuclear powers who both regularity threaten the use of such weapons.
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@TheCommonS3Nse I don't know why the reply is always some variation of me wanting the entire economy based on oil, and particularly crude exports. No one is suggesting we base our economic future on pipelines. Was any aspect of your life impacted by the TransCanada expansion? These aren't Soviet 5 year full society plans. We can develop EVs and Refining and mining and manufacturing and Data Farms all at the same time.
But the very simple reality is Eastern Canada will be using oil products for decades. They will surely decrease, but we will still need access to them, and having that access controlled by a country being actively harmful and speaking about annexation is beyond foolish.
Why on earth would we be more dependent on Alberta revenues. If Ontario sells more cars that isn't bad for PEI.
We are looking at a collapse of Canada's largest export industry, and the main industry of a province, not because of any freemarket force, but because of coordinated action from a trade partner. If we allow that industry to collapse, we are allowing hundreds of thousands to go unemployed in Alberta, and many in Saskatchewan. We are allowing the CAD to weaken from low exports.
I don't understand how to reach people. I need people to realize today that in 2 years there is a very real possibility Alberta will be deep in recession, resent eastern Canada for blocking pipelines, listen to a US administration actively calling for them to separate and join the US, and do it. We can't start building a pipeline in 2 years. This is so desperately important to our national integrity.
If it's an economic conversation, then the conversation needs to be around; the cost of losing oil supply to the GTA, the cost of losing export value to long term high discounts caused by tariffs, and the pipeline returns assuming such a high discount exists. But it really shouldn't be an economic conversation at this point. Go talk to someone from Alberta and don't dismiss them. Look at Abacus and IPSOS polling. This is as politically necessary as building CP rail was. If we want to keep Western Canada, it's vital economic infrastructure cannot be based in our southern neighbor.
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@TheCommonS3Nse I have never once advocated for PP and plan on voting for Carney. Again that's just not true. I am taking issue with Markham, and correctly assumed that he would ignore all of those points. Carney has even hinted he would support an East pipeline, or pipelines in general, which Markham has argued against.
That does not change the fundamental need to address Albertan alienation, particularly under a 4th liberal government, or the wider merits to an east west pipeline. PP has referred to the danger line 5 creates, if Markham's goal is to demonstrate PP is misinformed, why did he not address this point? My Criticism is not of Carney, it is of Markham, and his lack of integrity in delivering the full context.
The pipeline was most certainly not Trudeaus only investment. There were enormous and beneficial capital subsidies that brought EV manufacturing plants to Ontario, moved steel in Ontario to Hydrogen, built Energy to Ammonia plants in the Maritimes, new electrical transmission infrastructure. But certainly I'm not going to argue Trudeau had some brilliant economic policy.
The oil industry, the Alberta based, western Canadian oil industry, is under attack. We export 5M barrels a day. We have no ability to process that or use it domestically. If we do not have alternative market outlets, we will simply see declining output and massive price discounts. If we don't provide a new outlet, we are letting the hundreds of billions invested become stranded assets, today, when there is clearly still a global, and American, market we are simply being removed from. After Covid I was terrifed OPEC would see how vulnerable our industry was, I never imagined it would be the US.
And it won't be focused on the SAGD monsters melting bitumen to mix and sell raw as DilBit that might spill and destroy a river. It will be the high employment mining sector Fort Mac is based on that upgrades to a higher value Syncrude.
The DilBit, the resource extraction you are against, will not stop. They will sell for dollars on the barrel, they'll even pay to have DilBit taken away in the short term. If we do not have sufficient capacity, it is the mines that will close. We saw it in Covid. The Mines and upgraders are the most expensive oil, and they are expensive because they represent all the jobs.
A TransCanada pipeline that only carries Syncrude is good policy. It is not something Markham should be using partial information to rally people against. It provides value added to our resources, it provides energy security to the east half of the country, it provides employment that Northern Alberta is almost entirely dependent on.
If we don't build an eastern Connection, we are risking 1970s style fuel rationing in the GTA and an economic depression in Alberta from collapsing government revenue and mass unemployment.
If Markham wants to call himself an energy reporter, he should be providing full context. Frankly, he should, even if he thinks there is no acceptable scenario, at least lay out what the best possible east coast configuration would be. He should not be treating all pipelines as equal, or all our oil products as equal. I know he knows they are not, because I initially learned a lot of this from him in Covid. He is using this opportunity to try and close the oil sands, and he does it by leaving out facts I've learned from him in order to convince people that there is absolutely no reason to build a pipeline, although his only justification is always using a pipeline built over Covid as the cost basis and assuming domestic oil prices don't see a significant discount, and therefore finding a pipeline must lose money.
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@TheCommonS3Nse I am not. I agree China will probably peak this year. And global demand will stagnate or fall going forward. I have been arguing this for years even.
A TransCanada pipeline isn't about growing the industry. It is addressing that we will need oil in eastern Canada for decades, and moving that oil off line 5, and expanding upgrader capacity to bring the rest of eastern Canada onto domestic blends. Frankly, none of my points are about expanding the industry, I am saying we need to protect it from a collapse caused by the world's premier super power having an aggressive economic policy meant to hurt it.
Even if the $25 billion turns out to be a bad investment, that does not mean $25 billion will be lost. Maybe $10 billion is lost, over 20 years. The federal government transfers $20 billion to Quebec a year, no one worries about the lack of return. No one is against the TransCanada highway for not repaying itself will tolls. Sometimes supporting a provincial economy costs money. Sometimes infrastructure costs money. We can afford to risk potentially losing a few billion a year on protecting the entire economy of Alberta.
Also, to the comment I don't address this;
We do not produce large amounts of oil. We largely produce Bitumen. Again, Markham knows this, and if the discussion is Carbon fiber, suddenly Bitumen is very different from oil.
EVs are driving the decline in oil. What does that really mean? It means demand for Gasoline is falling. What's gasoline? The medium-light fraction of a conventional barrel of oil. There is no gasoline in Bitumen. Bitumen is much larger hydrocarbons.
You know what isn't declining globally? Jet Fuel. And Diesel. Look at Sturgeon Falls refinery. We can turn an entire barrel of bitumen into Diesel, because it's all heavier going in. For OPEC to make a barrel of Diesel, they need 5 barrels of oil, which means they'll have to dump 2-3 barrels of gasoline on the market cheap.
And that's aside from added value. Markham loves non-combustion uses. But why would we not produce those goods at a coast? If we want to sell asphalt binder to the world, should we not have our refiniery on a coast? Coasts? Or Base oils, to make lubricants? Even Carbon fiber, which I am very excited about, but which is a decade at Alberta Innovates best case scenario from using 100k bbl/d?
Our product is not losing demand. Oil is losing demand. And we could be displacing barrels of oil with value added Bitumen to Diesel exports. There are 100M barrels of oil on the global market, you really don't think we could compete for 2-3M in the long term even as demand declines? The rise in EVs mean conventional oil is dead, people either want heavy crudes like ours to make heavy RPPs, or NGLs from fracking for petrochemicals.
Treating Bitumen like oil is something the Energy Journalist you are watching knows is wrong and incorrect, and will only do if he is arguing against a pipeline. Watch him. If the topic is not an pipeline, bitumen is not oil. If the topic is a pipeline, oil decline is falling so bitumen is oil.
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@TheCommonS3Nse I get it, I don't look like I am regularly promoting the oil Industry. And I certainly don't think a Pipeline would fix all our problems, but it is certainly the solution to a number of them.
I'm not sure what you mean by outside the box. CanaPux would be convenient for exporting, although it's very little upgrading. I disagree on the value of an Arctic pipeline. And even the idea of building a pipeline for Europe. Unless Europe has skin in the game, it's not worth investing in a market that is shrinking.
I would have excess capacity on energy east if Europe offered some reason to, long term purchases or investment. But I think really what is needed is that connection to eastern Canada, it would be silly to build a pipeline to Churchill, ship oil to Montreal, and then send oil to Ontario via line 9.
Also, unlike BC, eastern Canada has land treaties. So I don't think there will be any substantive issues. I'd also say it only really has to cross 4 provinces, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Ontario. At least in the first phase. Quebec and NB can ship crude from there.
But I think beyond that it really is essential infrastructure and the government should do whatever is needed to expedite it.
I'd also like to see another million barrels a day going west, largely following the northern gateway route, although that's a lower necessity.
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Areas of low carbon service I would like to see
1) Heat pump manufacturering, specializing in low tempature heat pumps. Particularly in Ontario, to help transition an automobile manufacturing sector that was already struggling and is now under attack. It's parts based equipment, not using any unusual chemistry, that can be built with steel and aluminium and tooling. We have a large domestic market, and can leverage that for building an industrial base to sell to Northern Europe, Northern areas in the US, and parts of South America.
2) Fully supply chain Battery production. We need to make mining possible again, but if we can do that, we can use entirely domestic supply chains and low cost electricity to be competitive in a growth sector.
3) Green Hydrogen, we have a number of projects on the East coast for export to Europe.
4) Data Servers, particularly in Labrador, where you are near the Intercontinental data cables, you have low tempatures, and excessive amounts of electricity.
Aluminum we already have might also be included. That's definitely not all Canada should be doing. And I would love to see an east West oil pointline and another million barrels a day to the Pacific with an upgraded complex..
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@marktrotter8971 like @johnjennings9043 said, it isn't necessarily better. Tanks are a high value target. It's kinda like putting a sign up saying "shoot me" if you don't think it's going to provide actual benefits. But in this case, you need to train teams to operate the shoot me sign, mechanics to fix the shoot me sign, and logistics to source parts specific to that shoot me sign that aren't used in any other equipment.
I'm not saying the tanks aren't valuable. I don't know very much about them. But not every random piece of equipment is necessarily helpful. Now, 500 tanks is a lot, and could be worth setting up a logistical train. It might even be worth half burying them 10km from the current line as defensive positions if Pokrovs, for example, is lost. And putting cages on them isn't very difficult to protect from drones, much easier than building. But on the other hand, being so old and widely retired, parts may be difficult to source , and idk how operational they are.
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@beatreuteler Again, over the next 20 years I agree. But beyond that, I think you are mistaken to believe storage will be an issue worth consideration. I think nuclear and geothermal have much better chances of success in the long term because they are neither land intensive or restricted in application (refering to closed loop geothermal, not conventional).
Not all hydro is equal. There will always be some dams controlling flooding on the Columbia. But there are countries where coal is being added even today; again, that won't stop its phase out.
Take a moment and consider what the environmentalists will go after once climate change goes the way of the ozone layer. Massive stretches of the Amazon flooded, fish populations that have been decimated on the pacific coast, methyl mercury released, sediment trapped.
Or the simple Economics. Right now, Norway is Europes battery. What happens when importing energy from europe is simply less expensive constantly? What is the argument for keeping the rivers dammed?
Or the Geopolitical angle. Dams are both a weapon and a major weakness. Downstream countries don't like being held hostage, and dams within a country are an enormous target.
Obviously I can't prove it. I don't think swiss pumped storage is going to be under attack in the same way Gand Coulie or 3 Gorges or Balbina will be. But I do think energy produced from dams will face the same boycott or externality pricing that we see fossil sources face today, particularly as the majority of countries lack considerable hydro and will have access to inexpensive energy..
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@macsnafu The exchange function, and also that it is the unit of account. It is obvious that printing money doesn't create new wealth, but spending that money does lead to production of new wealth.
You say like any borrower, the government will have to repay it's loan. But I put forward that large financial institutions don't intend on repaying all their debt, which exist in the form of deposit, and actually aim to increase debt annually. Debt can be a very inexpensive way to access capital. I don't see why we wouldn't want to leverage government spending, with our main concern being growth in the tax base, or Debt to GDP.
If you're talking about a crowding out effect, that exists only to the extent interest rates are raised due to borrowing, which itself is a question of inflation. But I would suggest a low crowding out effect is less damaging than taxes in many cases. Taxes are indiscriminate and disincentivize working, interest rates of 3% mean that any investment returning 3% or less won't be made, which means only the least productive will be impacted.
In some cases government borrowing can certainly stimulate the economy. When people are afraid to invest they pull capital out of the market. Government debt can pull that back into circulation, and that spending could have a positive multiplier effect.
The Guaranteed Job scheme I would support is to have the Federal government fund a program that allows Charities and Municipalities to pay workers Minimum wage for 8 hours a day 5 hours a week, with a basic benefits package. That would keep these jobs from competing with the private market, and I think charities and municipalities are best suited to finding a variety of tasks for differing skills and doing it quickly. I would also extend it to Manufacturering companies for up to 6 months of training, with the requirement the company has to pay 50% of the cost back if the employee isn't working there in a year.
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@kzazazazk
I did include the estimated amounts on the shelf. You're 3 billion figure is easily sourced and clearly the proven reserves. We agree the rest is not currently economically viable; although, economically viable also includes legal restriction, and with the new government that's open to change.
Again, the point of the other guy was that if Alaska had a population density anywhere near the other states average, and if that population weren't focused on the Southern most areas, the economics would be different.
I don't know why you are being so aggressive and rude about this. The two of you are disagreeing about different things. He is saying that the economics are bad because Alaska has no infrastructure or, really, economy outside a pipeline. You are debating proven reserves. That's not the same as oil in the ground, which is stated by the Artic Institute, Resource development council of Alaska, and US Department of the Interior to be much higher than the 3.1 figure.
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@Willowgirl2015 well, 1, oil royalties are like a third of Alberta's Government revenue. It's nowhere near 70% of Alberta's GDP that's outlandish.
2) it wouldn't have to change over tomorrow. And anything can be negotiated. But yes I would expect the bulk of revenues to be put into a long term wealth fund owned by Alberta.
3) you might not want it said, but they would get oil out. Not just more oil, but also a higher price for all oil, and investment into more oil. That's more jobs, more government revenue, and more royalties.
4) Alberta would own the investment fund. It isn't giving anything way. It would choose what investments were made, which would give it an enormous amount of influence within Canada. All the profits generated would be Alberta's to reinvest domestically, internationally, or spend. The agreement would simply be that the royalties are invested in Canada. I'm not even saying it has to be invested based on where the pipeline goes. I'm not trying to cut out PEI. I'm saying we pull equalization payments if a province tries to block it. But in exchange for the Federal government using its power to get pipelines built, Alberta uses it's royalties to build up Canada.
5) Alberta wouldn't have to pay so much in equalization if those other provinces had a stronger economy. And the fact is, oil prices drive up the CAD, and that destroyed eastern Canada's manufacturing all through the 2000s. We have Dutch disease. We need to diversify our economy. Frankly, if all of Canada had more investment, the Federal government would be able to lower taxes on everyone, including Alberta, because there would be a much larger tax base.
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@wilfdarr well 1, it's crazy that Alberta gets a third of its government revenue from oil and then calls other provinces spoiled.
2, maybe people would be more appreciative of equalization payments if Alberta didn't spend all it's time complaining about paying it. I'm in Ontario, it received less than PEI last year, and nothing the 4 years before, so forgive me for not being appreciative of your generosity.
3, I'm trying to help you. Are you getting pipelines built right now? Even the US federal government under Trump blocked the last one. If you want to build pipelines, maybe consider making it worthwhile. Or, go on not getting pipelines. I'd rather the win-win. But frankly, high oil prices killed Ontario's Manufacturing, so it's no real skin off my back if you can't get it out of the ground.
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In order to help Quebec and Manitoba replace US hydro exports, it may be worth building transmission from both to Southern Ontario. However, I think building our server farms is a far more practical solution. Server farms offer large anchor loads with effectively global export capacity. The major cost is electricty, which we have both cheap and cleanly, but the major component of that electrical demand is for cooling, which we have in even more abundance.
In particular, combining a built out of server farms using geothermal heating and cooling would provide an opportunity to move drigging rigs and apply existing industry experience on to geothermal activity, and build our overall geothermal drilling knowledge.
With geothermal cooling, we may be able to extend mass servers to renewables on the prairies as well.
I think importantly, we should consider the scale of such purchases, and what that kind of customer is worth to a supplier. We'd likely be able to leverage such large purchases against the company or a country to receive an investment deal of some kind. Maybe get a Chip FAB or a pipeline for it.
I also think there are strategic advantages to having a considerable server capacity, and other countries may also favour us for apparent rule of law and relatively safe neighborhood.
We do have to make sure we don't allow it to price out consumers, but we're a ways away from that. In the meantime, backing our telecom companies to do it may allow them to make more revenue on server sales and lower phone prices, and backing the provincial utilities would allow renewable resource development in more remote locations.
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@donderstorm1845 it certainly wouldn't be seen that way. Sanctions on Russia have finally pushed a market crash and Gazprom into loss. This would be an enormous life line for a project that, as you point out, China doesn't need.
To be clear I'm not saying they wouldn't buy gas from the pipeline, but that they won't fund the gas line.
And part of this also is that power of Siberia 2 connects to the European gas pipes, so this would allow gas that's stuck in the ground because of European sanctions to flow, alongside with the employment and revenue, which admittedly would be lower then selling to Europe.
Although that's another reason China doesn't want to fund the pipeline, if Russia normalizes relations, it can threaten to sell to Europe and drive up the price, compared to power of Siberia 1 that has no alternative market. POS2 would actually allow POS1 to reach that European market, and potentially drive up prices there as well.
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@donderstorm1845 It would certainly appear to, and be portrayed as, and in all practical ways be throwing a life to a Russian Economy currently seeing an economic collapse driven by a loss of oil and gas activity. An investment worth 10s of billions into the area of the Russian state most heavily under construction would not be taken kindly by the west, particularly when it could be taken as a reason to weaken China, and the CCP is aware of that. Particularly since, unlike Power of Siberia (POS) 1, this would connect to the existing fields in West Russia which have been pushed out of production by European demand drop, and directly undermine European sanction efforts.
To be clear, I'm not saying China wouldn't buy gas from such a pipeline, but rather it won't pay to build it.
But this brings an additional point against China wanting the pipe line, which is that POS2 would allow Russia to move NG, even NG from POS1, between the European and Chinese Markets, and drive up their own prices.
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@donderstorm1845 It would certainly appear to, and be portrayed as, and in all practical ways be throwing a life to a Russian Economy currently seeing an economic collapse driven by a loss of oil and gas activity. An investment worth 10s of billions into the area of the Russian state most heavily under sanction would not be taken kindly by the west, particularly when it could be taken as a reason to weaken China, and the CCP is aware of that. Particularly since, unlike Power of Siberia (POS) 1, this would connect to the existing fields in West Russia which have been pushed out of production by European demand drop, and directly undermine European sanction efforts.
To be clear, I'm not saying China wouldn't buy gas from such a pipeline, but rather it won't pay to build it.
But this brings an additional point against China wanting the pipe line, which is that POS2 would allow Russia to move NG, even NG from POS1, between the European and Chinese Markets, and drive up their own prices.
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@johnnykey00 A mix of Chinese statements, EIA reports, and analysist.
China will replace gas with Domestic gas (China has the world's largest shale reserves they are actively developing in Tarmin and Sichuan), renewables and energy storage (Besides the well known Solar and Wind build out, China also has 60GWs of pumped hydro storage in construction, leads in Global Green Hydrogen production, and has an enormous battery industry with millions of cars that will be retired in a decade providing enormous amounts of low cost storage), domestic coal, and in Northern Cities which use NG for domestic heating heat pumps and solar water heaters (which China leads the world in production and application), alongside demand drop from the long term and potentially sharp decline of cement and steel production (steel being largely produced in the North East were the current major domestic production in and POS1 enters the country).
Or maybe China won't. It's unclear. But that lack of clarity makes China less willing to commit to a massive upfront investment.
And investment which would be seen as throwing a lifeline to a Russian economy struggling under Oil and Gas sanctions in Europe, and in particular would connect the very gas fields European actions have taken offline to Chinese demand and bring them back into production. This might matter less now than a year ago, because of existing tariffs and the emerging trade war, or it may matter more.
But worse yet, from the Chinese perspective, a China-Europe connection would allow Russia to shop between markets for a higher price, and potentially even sell gas from Fields developed specifically for POS1 in Europe, increasing the prices China currently pays.
LNG is advantageous for China because it's such an open market. Sanctions from the US? Go the Australia and Canada? More sanctions? Russia and Qatar. The price of LNG has stayed very low, killing investment after 2015, until a price spike caused by Europe in 2022, and even now prices have stabilized near old lows. LNG delivers to the actual population centers, particularly in South East China, that are thousands of Km from Gas fields. In part it's been used to drive NG investment locally so that extending pipelines makes sense and South China Sea oil Associated gas can be economically used, in part it's been part of China's efforts to clean up their air quality in cities and displace Coal, in part it ensures competition in pipeline prices and enerfy security (a lesson learned by Europe), and in part LNG is an alternative fuel for vehicles that China has significant investment in. I mean, China literally created the industry out of nothing. China doesn't want to be Europe on 10 years, relying on the Russians for Gas only to see it used against them. Lowest price doesn't mean lowest cost.
As for your last bit of moral mombo jumbo, I don't make the rules, the US government does, and the rules say the US gets to win. What it's done wrong is start to win.
But it's a pretty ironic protestation you have "we all have a right to economic growth, why should China be punished for funding a country actively destroying another countries infrastructure and economic base". I mean, be serious.
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@johnnykey00 A mix of Chinese statements, EIA reports, and analysist.
China will replace gas with Domestic gas (China has the world's largest shale reserves they are actively developing in Tarmin and Sichuan), renewables and energy storage (Besides the well known Solar and Wind build out, China also has 60GWs of pumped hydro storage in construction, leads in Global Green Hydrogen production, and has an enormous battery industry with millions of cars that will be retired in a decade providing enormous amounts of low cost storage), domestic coal, and in Northern Cities which use NG for domestic heating heat pumps and solar water heaters (which China leads the world in production and application), alongside demand drop from the long term and potentially sharp decline of cement and steel production (steel being largely produced in the North East were the current major domestic production in and POS1 enters the country).
Or maybe China won't. It's unclear. But that lack of clarity makes China less willing to commit to a massive upfront investment.
And investment which would be seen as throwing a lifeline to a Russian economy struggling under Oil and Gas sanctions in Europe, and in particular would connect the very gas fields European actions have taken offline to Chinese demand and bring them back into production. This might matter less now than a year ago, because of existing tariffs and the emerging trade war, or it may matter more.
But worse yet, from the Chinese perspective, a China-Europe connection would allow Russia to shop between markets for a higher price, and potentially even sell gas from Fields developed specifically for POS1 in Europe, increasing the prices China currently pays.
LNG is advantageous for China because it's such an open market. Sanctions from the US? Go the Australia and Canada? More sanctions? Russia and Qatar. The price of LNG has stayed very low, killing investment after 2015, until a price spike caused by Europe in 2022, and even now prices have stabilized near old lows. LNG delivers to the actual population centers, particularly in South East China, that are thousands of Km from Gas fields. In part it's been used to drive NG investment locally so that extending pipelines makes sense and South China Sea oil Associated gas can be economically used, in part it's been part of China's efforts to clean up their air quality in cities and displace Coal, in part it ensures competition in pipeline prices and enerfy security (a lesson learned by Europe), and in part LNG is an alternative fuel for vehicles that China has significant investment in. I mean, China literally created the industry out of nothing. China doesn't want to be Europe on 10 years, relying on the Russians for Gas only to see it used against them. Lowest price doesn't mean lowest cost.
As for your last bit of moral mombo jumbo, I don't make the rules, the US government does, and the rules say the US gets to win. What it's done wrong is start to win.
But it's a pretty ironic protestation you have "we all have a right to economic growth, why should China be punished for funding a country actively destroying another countries infrastructure and economic base". I mean, be serious.
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@johnnykey00 A mix of Chinese statements, EIA reports, and analysist.
China will replace gas with Domestic gas (China has the world's largest shale reserves they are actively developing in Tarmin and Sichuan), renewables and energy storage (Besides the well known Solar and Wind build out, China also has 60GWs of pumped hydro storage in construction, leads in Global Green Hydrogen production, and has an enormous battery industry with millions of cars that will be retired in a decade providing enormous amounts of low cost storage), domestic coal, and in Northern Cities which use NG for domestic heating heat pumps and solar water heaters (which China leads the world in production and application), alongside demand drop from the long term and potentially sharp decline of cement and steel production (steel being largely produced in the North East were the current major domestic production in and POS1 enters the country).
Or maybe China won't. It's unclear. But that lack of clarity makes China less willing to commit to a massive upfront investment.
And investment which would be seen as throwing a lifeline to a Russian economy struggling under Oil and Gas sanctions in Europe, and in particular would connect the very gas fields European actions have taken offline to Chinese demand and bring them back into production. This might matter less now than a year ago, because of existing tariffs and the emerging trade war, or it may matter more.
But worse yet, from the Chinese perspective, a China-Europe connection would allow Russia to shop between markets for a higher price, and potentially even sell gas from Fields developed specifically for POS1 in Europe, increasing the prices China currently pays.
LNG is advantageous for China because it's such an open market. Sanctions from the US? Go the Australia and Canada? More sanctions? Russia and Qatar. The price of LNG has stayed very low, killing investment after 2015, until a price spike caused by Europe in 2022, and even now prices have stabilized near old lows. LNG delivers to the actual population centers, particularly in South East China, that are thousands of Km from Gas fields. In part it's been used to drive NG investment locally so that extending pipelines makes sense and South China Sea oil Associated gas can be economically used, in part it's been part of China's efforts to clean up their air quality in cities and displace Coal, in part it ensures competition in pipeline prices and enerfy security (a lesson learned by Europe), and in part LNG is an alternative fuel for vehicles that China has significant investment in. I mean, China literally created the industry out of nothing. China doesn't want to be Europe on 10 years, relying on the Russians for Gas only to see it used against them. Lowest price doesn't mean lowest cost.
Edit: importing LNG from the US and western countries also gives China some leverage, particularly in red states.
As for your last bit of moral mombo jumbo, I don't make the rules, the US government does, and the rules say the US gets to win. What it's done wrong is start to win.
But it's a pretty ironic protestation you have "we all have a right to economic growth, why should China be punished for funding a country actively destroying another countries infrastructure and economic base". I mean, be serious.
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@johnnykey00 @johnnykey00 A mix of Chinese statements, EIA reports, and analysist.
China will replace gas with Domestic gas (China has the world's largest shale reserves they are actively developing in Tarmin and Sichuan), renewables and energy storage (Besides the well known Solar and Wind build out, China also has 60GWs of pumped hydro storage in construction, leads in Global Green Hydrogen production, and has an enormous battery industry with millions of cars that will be retired in a decade providing enormous amounts of low cost storage), domestic coal, and in Northern Cities which use NG for domestic heating heat pumps and solar water heaters (which China leads the world in production and application), alongside demand drop from the long term and potentially sharp decline of cement and steel production (steel being largely produced in the North East were the current major domestic production in and POS1 enters the country).
Or maybe China won't. It's unclear. But that lack of clarity makes China less willing to commit to a massive upfront investment.
And investment which would be seen as throwing a lifeline to a Russian economy struggling under Oil and Gas sanctions in Europe, and in particular would connect the very gas fields European actions have taken offline to Chinese demand and bring them back into production. This might matter less now than a year ago, because of existing tariffs and the emerging trade war, or it may matter more.
But worse yet, from the Chinese perspective, a China-Europe connection would allow Russia to shop between markets for a higher price, and potentially even sell gas from Fields developed specifically for POS1 in Europe, increasing the prices China currently pays.
LNG is advantageous for China because it's such an open market. Sanctions from the US? Go the Australia and Canada? More sanctions? Russia and Qatar. The price of LNG has stayed very low, killing investment after 2015, until a price spike caused by Europe in 2022, and even now prices have stabilized near old lows. LNG delivers to the actual population centers, particularly in South East China, that are thousands of Km from Gas fields. In part it's been used to drive NG investment locally so that extending pipelines makes sense and South China Sea oil Associated gas can be economically used, in part it's been part of China's efforts to clean up their air quality in cities and displace Coal, in part it ensures competition in pipeline prices and enerfy security (a lesson learned by Europe), and in part LNG is an alternative fuel for vehicles that China has significant investment in. I mean, China literally created the industry out of nothing. China doesn't want to be Europe on 10 years, relying on the Russians for Gas only to see it used against them. Lowest price doesn't mean lowest cost.
As for your last bit of moral mombo jumbo, I don't make the rules, the US government does, and the rules say the US gets to win. What it's done wrong is start to win.
But it's a pretty ironic protestation you have "we all have a right to economic growth, why should China be punished for funding a country actively destroying another countries infrastructure and economic base". I mean, be serious.
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@MK_ULTRA420 first of all, no one cares about pollution. I don't you don't China certainly doesn't. I don't understand people like yourself when they seemingly know China is a bad actor but then use metrics they obviously couldn't care less about. All that said, it really depends what you mean by pollution, and certainly this has more to do with industry standards than any rule that EVs pollute more in production.
Secondly, even if they use more "energy", which is an incredibly imprecise term, they use that energy in forms that China and Europe can access reliably and inexpensively, in comparison to oil that is easily blockaded and under prices set by a cartel.
It doesn't matter if a Japanese Sudan has the same lifetime emissions of an EV. Only a hippy cares.
What matters is that China, the world's largest oil importer, is rapidly building out EVs and reducing oil demand globally in doing so, while taking over supply chains for a technology with significant room for improvement. The US and Canada have the highest cost oil production in the world, and our ICE car manufacturers are state backed failures. We've already lost most manufacturing and face trade deficits. We simply can't afford to let China control the supply chains and technologies that will dominate the global market.
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@ChrisR-xs9wp they put billions in to Keystone XL.
I'm not asking them to share royalties. That's like suggesting Norway is giving away it's Sovereign wealth fund. I'm saying that they should invest those nationally to increase overall Canadian economic activity, reduce Dutch disease, and create stronger economic ties. They keep all the revenue generated.
Frankly, the 600k bill/d Markham keeps bringing up doesn't exist. It's nonsense to think they are going to let us use their pipelines to export. They are actively trying to push us out of the market. A year ago I would have agreed but 6 months ago this kind of thinking will destroy us. I'm all for the 300k a day in Transmountain we should be increasing that this very moment, but we need alternative pathways for millions of barrels. In the short term we need to be able to replace marathon's 300k a day and the 600k a day going through Keystone. And within 2 years we will have another million blls a day gone after they reverse Keystone and start sending barges up the Mississippi.
And if we try to hold back oil, or curtail to support prices, they will close down Line 5, another 400k a day gone, and completely cut Ontario off from not just Alberta's oil, which will have no alternative market, but all oil by pipeline until we can reverse Line 9, leaving Southern Ontario depending on Rail deliveries.
TransCanada should have been treated as a matter of National security and a nation building project, not an economic one. I agree Alberta should have put more effort into CanaPUX and negotiating pipelines by offering capital investment instead of just expecting them built. But we're here now..
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@terjeoseberg990 Kursk always had multiple operational goals.
Tactical goals such as regaining maneuver warfare operations Ukraine excels at, potentially pinning Russians to the Sejm, and taking advantage of suprise and mine free areas.
Strategic goals such as greater depth, moving boundaries to the sejm for greater defense, capturing the Nuclear power plant, capturing prisons to trade, cutting of Raillines to the south, and propaganda.
Of course drawing troops off other fronts was one. And it can certainly be debated how successful this was, I wouldn't call it a failure, but the extent to which those 38k were repositioned troops vs Conscripts not used in Ukraine, members of other military units not based on the eastern Front, North Koreans, FSB, FIS, and Border control officers limits the gains. But the negotiating chip was always put forward as a chief operational goal..
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@terjeoseberg990 Kursk always had multiple operational goals.
Tactical goals such as regaining maneuver warfare operations Ukraine excels at, potentially pinning Russians to the Sejm, and taking advantage of suprise and mine free areas.
Strategic goals such as greater depth, moving boundaries to the sejm for greater defense, capturing the Nuclear power plant, capturing prisons to trade, cutting of Raillines to the south, and propaganda.
Of course drawing troops off other fronts was one. And it can certainly be debated how successful this was, I wouldn't call it a failure, but the extent to which those 38k were repositioned troops vs Conscripts not used in Ukraine, members of other military units not based on the eastern Front, North Koreans, FSB, FIS, and Border control officers limits the gains. But the negotiating chip was always put forward as a chief operational goal.
Also, Ukraine may be the one to make the final decision. But to think they would want to continue fighting without American logistical support, and potentially in an environment where America is lifting Russian Sanctions and pushing EU countries to end aid and lift sanctions as part of Tariff and NATO negotiations, is just silly..
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@terjeoseberg990 I'm not celebrating Russian leadership lol. I'm just saying there wasn't 1 point to invading Kursk. And right now, the key point is holding land to improve the situation if Trump aims to force a negotiation by leveraging US aid.
But to 38k casualties being a "huge success", why? Why are casualties a success? Ukraine could carpet bomb Minsk, and create thousand of casualties, but it wouldn't be a success. You need to go beyond casualties to the strategic reasoning. Drawing troops off the Eastern front was the apparent goal. This largely didn't materialize.
Now, the large losses do wear down Russian material and manpower from recruiting. But, Russia has been chiefly using wheeled BTRs in Kursk, not the BMPs it uses for the eastern front. And while Russia is suffering recruitment issues, the extent to which it doesn't need Russian Volunteers in Kursk limits the success of hindering Russia in the east, since NKs or Conscripts or literal Police officers were never going to be used there. Russia did pull troops out of the south, which was some advantage to Ukraine. Again I'm not suggesting this has been a failure, but it was by no means the success hoped for.
If course no one in government went out and said "the goal of this operation is to make it so we can pretend we want to negotiate and make Russia look like the party unwilling to accept a ceasefire". The term is strategic ambiguity. They can't admit the goal is to draw out the war when Trump is only offering to support them with the aim of ending the war as soon as possible.
I don't agree that Ukraine doesn't need the US. We have seen the results of US paralysis and the strategically important losses in manpower and defensive positions. But moreover, US lack of support now would mean an end to long range missile strikes. It might mean a lifting of sanctions to empower Russia. And it might even mean that European Countries, faced with Tariffs and themselves strategically dependent on the US who is clearly aiming to renegotiate NATO, may have to lift some sanctions or cut back aid. US impartiality is not guaranteed, Trump has spoken negatively of Ukraine, and if he interprets Russia as a willing negotiator and Ukraine as pushing for a long war, that would be disastrous.
On the other hand, if Ukraine says "we'd love to negotiate" knowing that Russia will absolutely refuse as long as they hold Russian Territory, Trump may frame Russia as the aggressor extending the war (which I don't dispute in reality it is), and increase aid. long range missile. F15s. Abrams. Bradleys. The US could provide hundreds more and utterly turn the tide. It could even pressure South Korea to provide aid directly, millions of shells and tanks and artillery.
There is no reason to ignore the reality of the US's leverage. Ukraine is obviously at the greater advantage when the US is supporting them..
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@terjeoseberg990 I don't think we expected them to recruit NK soldiers, and NK apparently hasn't been comfortable putting people in Internationally recognized Ukraine. I really don't think we expected them to use Federal police or intelligence officers on the front line in the east, but we have seen it in Kursk. And we still aren't seeing young conscripts in internationally recognized Ukraine, but they are in Kursk. These uses do not impact Russian recruitment.
The casualties can be replaced with more North Koreans and Forced Conscripts. 38k casualties on the Eastern Front would have a significantly greater impact on recruiting than in Kursk, because many of the people in Kursk don't have to be convinced to volunteer. It is volunteer soldiers Russia is struggling to recruit, and it is volunteer soldiers whose salaries and bonuses are bankrupting Russia.
Again, there are volunteers in Kursk. Some new recruits, some from the Southern front, and some from the east. I'm not implying failure. I'm contextualizing the extent of success.
Maybe the confusion is the last point. I certainly don't think the goal is to hold Kursk to trade it for a few square Km of land. I'm saying Ukraine wants to hold it because Putin's political power would be undermined by any peace deal that lost any Russian Territory. And so holding the land keeps Russia away from the negotiating table, which will make Trump angry that Putin won't agree to the peace negotiations Trump has said would be easy, and lead to Trump trying to punish Russia by supporting Ukraine further, maybe more than Biden has..
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@terjeoseberg990 I don't think we expected them to recruit NK soldiers, and NK apparently hasn't been comfortable putting people in Internationally recognized Ukraine. I really don't think we expected them to use Federal police or intelligence officers on the front line in the east, but we have seen it in Kursk. And we still aren't seeing young conscripts in internationally recognized Ukraine, but they are in Kursk. These uses do not impact Russian recruitment.
The casualties can be replaced with more North Koreans and Forced Conscripts. 38k casualties on the Eastern Front would have a significantly greater impact on recruiting than in Kursk, because many of the people in Kursk don't have to be convinced to volunteer. It is volunteer soldiers Russia is struggling to recruit, and it is volunteer soldiers whose salaries and bonuses are bankrupting Russia.
Again, there are volunteers in Kursk. Some new recruits, some from the Southern front, and some from the east. I'm not implying failure. I'm contextualizing the extent of success.
Maybe the confusion is the last point. I certainly don't think the goal is to hold Kursk to trade it for a few square Km of land. I'm saying Ukraine wants to hold it because Putin's political power would be undermined by any peace deal that lost any Russian Territory. And so holding the land keeps Russia away from the negotiating table, which will make Trump angry that Putin won't agree to the peace negotiations Trump has said would be easy, and lead to Trump trying to punish Russia by supporting Ukraine further, maybe more than Biden has..
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@terjeoseberg990 alright, well, if we want to go into the nitty gritty the number you are using is from Zalenski saying "During the kurst operation, the enemy has already lost 38,000 of their soldiers in this direction alone, with nearly 15,000 of these loses being irreversible".
Now, I think it would be reasonable to say Ukraine probably over states the numbers a bit just like Russia or anyone at war does, but taking those values as true, it's only 15k who have been killed or severely wounded. 23k were "casualties" only in the sense they were temporarily wounded, and will be returned to the fight at some point.
One of those two numbers also includes the 860 POWs Ukraine has stated as taking. Which is strategically valuable, since most are probably limited use conscripts and are traded for more experienced Ukrainian prisoners. But either they can be returned to the fight if they are traded, and in any event largely aren't going to represent Volunteers.
And we know at the start of the operation the border was manned mainly with Conscripts. And the FSB was purported conscripting locals to rapidly add to the manpower as an initial response. The area South of the Sjem, which had 2-3k soldiers, would have been mainly Conscripts until Russia broke through, and they were fighting on both the east area of invasion and west border with Ukraine. The story of Conscript Artem Antonov was well publicized after he was shot in the head by his commander for refusing to fight in Kursk. And during the invasion reports were that Akhmet "special forces" were shooting Conscripts who tried to run. However, Russia is trying very hard to hide conscript deaths, so it is very difficult to say how extensive this is.
And, imo, in all likelihood part of why it was referred to as an "anti terrorist operation" by Russia, alongside publicity, was to use police and intelligence officers for manpower. Reports say FSB lost around 100 of their "alpha" and "vympel" SWAT type officers. Obviously a small amount of the 15k, and surely a sign of Russia's very high competence, but also not effecting recruitment.
And in the same interview as mentioned above, it's said NK has 3k casualties. Now I don't know how that breaks down between killed, permanently wounded, and temporary, but from what I have seen/heard, I'd expect it to screw towards the killed end. And, I expect as time goes on, we will see an increase in North Koreans disproportionately.
Now again, obviously there is success here. And all the above can be listed as success, I would simply not consider it as much so as Contract Russian soldiers. And conscript losses also constitute a Propaganda win by hurting Russian support.
You may remember at the start of the Kursk operation a HIMARs strike that killed hundreds of Russians coming to stabilize the situation, and they were from the 44th army Corp, a volunteer unit. Mainly because the Russians drive in a convoy like it was February 2022. A very significant loss, if somewhat isolated and early, not directly from the Eastern front, but as you say, they won't be getting there either.
And the 810th and 155th Naval brigades, which have been core parts of the Russian operation to retake Kursk, have been battered. The 155th you may recognize as the unit that has been completely rebuilt several to a dozen times in Vuhledar - although basically the moment the left for Kursk, the Russians captured Vuhledar, so may have been better for Ukraine if they hadn't been repositioned (a joke). And the 810th, (which was heavily involved in defending against both Ukraine's 2022 Kherson, reportedly loosing 85% of strength, and 2023, also taking ruinous casualties, counter offensives), ran into a wall of bullets in November that lost like 800 men in an operation, literally 300-500 in a few hours on the 14th. And also the command post hit on Christmas was the 810th, which is a big deal when you consider the very small percentage of the unit that had survived since the start of the war is likely the kind of people that are in a command post.
I think it's reasonable to expect around 7k Russian volunteers have been removed from the war in Kursk, maybe as high as 11k. But, I have to point out that Ukraine is using very skilled forces like the 83rd. And had they been placed on the Eastern front, I imagine they would have similar numbers. And for that reason, I don't think the long term occupation of Kursk, or in particular the current offensive, is about maximizing casualties (although the direction of attack I do believe is focused on Russian, not Korean, units). I think the same kind of ground for time campaign we see in the east may achieve such a goal better. I believe the reason for the holding and expansion of Kurst holdings is to keep Russia from negotiating.
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@terjeoseberg990 I don't take your point, beyond the obvious lack of respect for the Russian military. Are you saying the 1/3rd number is incorrect? Or just saying Russia lies about it, which obviously I agree with.
Technically, particularly earlier in the war, many "Russian Casualties" were PMCs or Separatist Militias, and in fairness we don't include private contractors or Afghan National Military in USA casualties from Afghanistan; although the US didn't purport to annex Afghanistan either, and certainly didn't use military contractors in the same way.
But over 2024 it has been very directly Russian Military against Ukraine, and Russia is certainly under-reporting its losses. And sending people on crutches into trenches. And using barrier troops to shoot Storm V or Storm Z soldiers, if you can seriously apply the term to untrained barely armed mobs, when they try to run (this is why I put "special forces" in quotes earlier, what's special is they shoot at Russians instead of Ukrainians).
I think the reality is Russia has been getting rid of their own undesirables, and so this hasn't caused friction until recently, as both the recruiting pool of people society wants dead anyway shrinks and the number of people Russia throws grows. I also think we will likely see a full mobilization by March if Trump hasn't taken actions to severely weaken Ukraine; it will be politically unpopular and may destroy Putin, but I don't know how else Russia could continue.
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@terjeoseberg990 I don't take your point, beyond the obvious lack of respect for the Russian military. Are you saying the 1/3rd number is incorrect? Or just saying Russia lies about it, which obviously I agree with.
Technically, particularly earlier in the war, many "Russian Casualties" were PMCs or Separatist Militias, and in fairness we don't include private contractors or Afghan National Military in USA casualties from Afghanistan; although the US didn't purport to annex Afghanistan either, and certainly didn't use military contractors in the same way.
But over 2024 it has been very directly Russian Military against Ukraine, and Russia is certainly under-reporting its losses. And sending people on crutches into trenches. And using barrier troops to shoot Storm V or Storm Z soldiers, if you can seriously apply the term to untrained barely armed mobs, when they try to run (this is why I put "special forces" in quotes earlier, what's special is they shoot at Russians instead of Ukrainians).
I think the reality is Russia has been getting rid of their own undesirables, and so this hasn't caused friction until recently, as both the recruiting pool of people society wants dead anyway shrinks and the number of people Russia throws grows. I also think we will likely see a full mobilization by March if Trump hasn't taken actions to severely weaken Ukraine; it will be politically unpopular and may destroy Putin, but I don't know how else Russia could continue.
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@TheBlindPariah nothing directly, but as the North West Pacific pipeline is clearly meant as a redo of Northern Gateway, I wouls be shocked if this isn't being thought of as Energy East take 2. And Energy East was a TC Canada project to reuse thier existing pipelines, and was already twice the estimated cost of Transmountain in 2014 even reusing all that infrastructure.
I would think its entirely unrealistic to do this without repurposing the NG lines. There are 4 seperate pipelines as part of TransCanada, so we aren't talking about cutting off our NG supply. And the pipelines only operate at something around a quarter of capacity, so TC Energy has no reason to keep them NG. I think its most likely TC Canada comes forward with a new project, but if not, they will almost certainly sell a pipeline or two, either willingly or required by the government, towards the project.
I also think it is very unlikely this is a bitumen pipeline. Smith didn't even say that, just a crony. Ontario and Quebec have very little use for Bitumen, and the goal from Fords preservative is clearly moving what flows on Line 5 to a domestic line, which is not bitumen. Energy East was meant as a Bitumen line, and some bitumen may be included, but I think politically and regulatoraly it will be much easier to push through an SCO pipeline.
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@raphaellagdameo7811 I definitely agree with the appeal. But what does it matter if a Toronto to Montreal trip is cut to 3 hours? It's certainly much more convenient but what economic activity does that spur? And what activity does it spur if we assume we're in an economy that's seeing a 10% drop of GDP?
I am arguing this is an either or scenario. Again, in the past I wouldn't be. But this isn't Covid or the great recession. The Bank of Canada isn't going to be able to keep rates low without mass sell offs of our US Treasury reserves and that's a very finite amount. Without exports to the US, there is going to be substantially less demand for Canadian dollars internationally, and that means our dollar is going to struggle to purchase the imported consumer goods we rely on, leading to inflation, and the capital equipment we need to build these infrastructure projects. This is very much a shoe string budget we will be on in a way that hasn't traditionally been true. If you follow MMT, then when the discussion is that it's not about dollars available to a government it's about resources available, we are not going to have resources available if we don't have export revenue.
We don't need to spend money to keep people employed. We need to spend money that gets us exports. The people who are against pipelines, we can't afford to give them air time. We're talking about Alberta collapsing into a permanent depression. Ontario will be losing its manufacturing sector. And quite frankly I do not have a lot of faith the millions of immigrants in that corridor will be choosing to stick around, or the Ontario's housing sector, or housing and oil sands dependent banking sector, will manage to stay afloat. Very soon Quebec, along with BC, may be two of the few provinces of supplying transfer payments, and it's not because their economy will be getting stronger.
We failed to develop our economy when it was possible to build both and when we did have demand for foreign investment. And I don't want to get to the point our competitive advantage is low wages. We simply don't have the fiscal space to borrow and spend if these tariffs happen, and I believe they will, because I think the goal of this is to deindustrialize Ontario and bring that industry to the rust belt it is already integrated into, and in doing so crash the CAD to access our resources cheap.
If you want to argue for better rail in general, for more freight capacity east-west or better regional rail to Oshawa or Hamilton or even Niagara, areas people do commute and don't require 10s of billions of dollars for a single route, I think it could be very helpful in lowering cost of living. But right now I'd rather see a light rail/street car from Niagara on the lakes vineyards through Niagara falls to the border at Buffalo that can drive some tourism and help people in Niagara commute than a speed line between two cities that have very little economic integration just because they're big..
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@raphaellagdameo7811 efficiency of what? Their trip? How does that make Canada's GDP grow? Really that means about a sixth of the population of the corridor we're talking about made a single there and return trip. If we assume that's all between Montreal and Toronto, we're saying save an average of 6 hours a year for 12% of the population between the two.
Europe and Asia have far more cities densely packed, and more importantly, aren't car dependent in their building. You have to start by making cities and neighborhoods survivable without a car for these kinds of benefits. No one decides against buying a car because they can make that one trip a year to Montreal in only 3 hours, they decide not to buy a car because they can get to work conveniently without one.
I agree with the point on freight. Although, I would much rather see new freight from North Bay to Ottawa so that we can free up the middle corridor in Toronto and reroute trains through Northern Ontario. But again, a high speed rail that skips Ottawa might make sense if the goal is to free up freight. Frankly, I think dedicated passenger rail would be more cost effective and provide most of the benefits, but if you're building splurge a little I guess. But if you include Ottawa that isn't what it's about at all and you're spending 10 times more on a vanity projects.
Again, just because it's well studied, doesn't mean it will help. We need to be generating export revenue. Even if a high-speed rail could be bought at a good price, if it isn't getting us foreign reserves it isn't helping. Even if we bought every part of it domestically, those domestic workers turn around and are buying imported consumer goods, because we don't make consumer goods, and that money is flowing out and having to be bought back by the BoC, and we can't do that for long before rates have to go through the roof or the CAD collapses against international currencies.
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@raphaellagdameo7811 okay. Again, I can agree with the value of Toronto to Montreal. I think most would be realized with simple passenger dedicated rail, but I'm okay with a long term investment. It frees up freight and might make some trips more cost effective.
This project is not Montreal to Toronto. It's Montreal to Ottawa to Toronto. Which means that instead of flat farmland and already existing right of way, you're cutting through eastern woodlands, building over the hard rock and bogs of Canadian Shield, and through the Algonquin highlands. For hundreds of Km. Including Ottawa makes the entire project not worth the return.
We have a highway for those buses. We have airports for those planes. We aren't talking about entirely new infrastructure. In fact we will probably see those airports struggling when Canadians can't afford to travel and there is no US business to fly and attend to. There is an enormous marginal cost to building a high-speed rail over what exists. What's the goal, just to replace the buses and plains?
What's the cost per ticket. Is it really cheaper than the bus, or are those riders going to keep taking the bus because it's what they can afford, today, when the economy is relatively good. Because I'll be shocked if it's cheaper than the current train. And are the execs on those flights going to be flying, or are their companies going to make them do more online calls to save money, when the economy is in recession.
Time is money when you're employed. We are facing a mass unemployment crisis. A crisis unlike Covid or 2008, because our central bank will be unable to keep rates low and our government unable to borrow large amounts.
And we are talking about maybe an hour a person per year in the region? The GTA won't have a GDP of $450 billion a year if these tariffs are real. When Hamilton and Oshawa and Windsor lose industry, when immigrants decide they don't want to live in a country they came to for economic opportunity that now is facing a decade of recession, that won't be the case. What are people in the GTA going to do with quicker access to Montreal that makes money, and vice versa.
From Paris or London I can go to a dozen other cities. You're naming hubs in a network. Our cities are islands; especially if you got there on a train. And they are cities that have public transit outside the downtown. Montreal and Toronto are maybe the best in Canada, but you can't go to the suburbs. I'd much rather see this money spent on building new LRT, or just bus lanes and stop lights timed to bus routes. There is far more time we could be saving for people with the very limited fiscal space we have being put into public transit compared to an HSR.
Right now a quarter of the country's exports, which fund a quarter of the country's imports, are oil sands. When the price of that collapses, our dollar can't buy things. I'm not even saying to expand the oil sands. I think we'll probably lose the oil sands mines, a million barrels a day, which you might think is a good thing until you realize it means the tailings ponds along the Athabasca will be abandoned. I'm simply saying we need to prioritize getting what we can out of the country, or else decade and hundreds of billions of investment into the Canadian economy are written off. While Ontario's Manufacturering is written off.
We won't be able to afford importing those $200 billion in service if we can't get our exports to market, and you have not given any explanation to how this rail line would internalize those services.
And tar is an acidic oxidized carbon residue, you are referring to bitumen..
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@adelezakus4795 obviously we agree on a lot, most importantly the importance of planning infrastructure on long time lines. There are two things I disagree.
First is that HSR is a solution to sprawl or long commutes. No country with HSR treats it as a commuter service. I get the idea but I think the solution has to be developing dense walkable communities within our cities, around existing transit hubs. That's how we reduce long commutes, we reduce the number of long distance commuters, not spend more on subsidizing long distance commuting.
And in regard to to tariffs, my point there is that even if all the iron for rails and manufacturing of train cars and equipment used to build is made in Canada, those workers get paid. And when they get paid, they end up buying imports, because almost all of our consumer goods are imported. And buying imports when we don't have exports means the Bank Of Canada has to protect the CAD, either selling reserves or raising rates.
I really believe we need to focus everything on salvaging those exports. Any government money spent means capital flight, and if it isn't being invested on getting access to foreign assets, it's wasted. We are in such an incredibly similar situation to Venezuela. Our ace up the sleeve is the US doesn't want a Venezuela on its border. And I don't want to play it..
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@markbaker6553 They offer minimal employment at the plant. They still offer the employment in the drilling sector, or in my ideal world, at gasifiers turning bitumen in NG, and eventually carbon dioxide to Methane.
But if a pipeline is going to take 60% of BCs grid, my point is that's an issue with the grid. BC has actually been an awful example for electrification; Alberta gets a lot of trouble for the renewables pause, as they should, but none of the other provinces were ever building nearly as much. We aren't going to be able to create a massive electrified resource extraction and manufacturing sector if we can't power a pipeline.
More importantly though, I don't think there really is an opportunity cost. If we can't build generation in the time it takes to build a pipeline we don't have a chance at reinventing our economy, and that's basically evidence we have no choice but to keep exporting raw resources.
Obviously that isn't my stance. But it's wrong to say we can't build a pipeline because we couldn't build the electrical capacity, and that's ultimately an argument against the electrified economy, not the pipeline.
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@lukeasacher I agree, but would add that I support the usage of a Land Value tax, particularly at local/municipal levels, and would be alright with taxing bodies having their own fiat currency such that every city might have a local dollar, and likewise that companies (particularly those involved with retail) should be able to issue currency backed by the fact they accept it.
Similar to what we're seeing with points systems- I think it's more likely points systems take over the role of government money for 95% of transactions over any crypto coins. All you have to do is repeal the law on Company Script and Walmart could pay you in part in Walmart points, but it's worth it because you get a better price for groceries etc with the points. Tie in gift cards, denominated your points in dollars and cents. There are companies working on exchanges already.
Edit: to my Land Value tax point, I would note that in Atlas Shrugged, the Gulch is expressly said to be funded by the owner collecting ground rent, excluding what they built on the parcel, and used to fund the municipal and defensive functions. Implicitly she agrees that ground rent is the best source of funding a community. To which my only objection to her utopia is that while now the government and the bank split my income quite evenly, I do look forward to the future when it's only the government. And I don't think the form of society she puts forward thrives under a banker owning everyone's property.
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@ponzi-d4k If this were a serious proposal from, say France or California, i wouldn't fight it. My concern is avoiding mass bankruptcy, if we can do that for doing nothing, I'm not going to fight it!
Logistically, I don't know how it could be done. How Suncor could say "We produced 700k bbl/d, but we didn't produce 1.5M". Particularly since it will be produced by an OPEC member as a result.
As for the price war, if the Saudis engage in price war, it will be against EVs, not us, imo. And they aren't currently doing that, so unless we got to that point of OPEC collapse, I don't know how we could say we are reducing supply.
Also, I do honestly believe in the medium and long term Oilsands is the more carbon conscious supplier. Because there is no gasoline yeild in a barrel of bitumen, we can upgrade to almost entirely deisel or jet fuel. Other oil suppliers, even heavy producers, can't do that. And as a result, they are going to produce gasoline by requirement. Some of that can be cracked for petrochemicals, but a lot of it will be dumped cheap as refiners chase the high margins on jet fuel, and that will fight against EV uptake. So I do believe there are negatives to climate transition in us taking that off the market because we can serve exclusively the hard to abate uses and bring the cost of those RPPs down to push our conventional refiners.
This is the same reason I believe we can maintain market share in the declining market. The market might want some light oil for petrochemical feed stock - but cracking gasoline will probably drive that out. And medium crudes will be less desirable as well as EVs drive out that gasoline demand and it shifts from the main product to a near waste product..
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@ponzi-d4k .If this were a serious proposal from, say France or California, i wouldn't fight it. My concern is avoiding mass bankruptcy, if we can do that for doing nothing, I'm not going to fight it!
Logistically, I don't know how it could be done. How Suncor could say "We produced 700k bbl/d, but we didn't produce 1.5M". Particularly since it will be produced by an OPEC member as a result.
As for the price war, if the Saudis engage in price war, it will be against EVs, not us, imo. And they aren't currently doing that, so unless we got to that point of OPEC collapse, I don't know how we could say we are reducing supply.
Also, I do honestly believe in the medium and long term Oilsands is the more carbon conscious supplier. Because there is no gasoline yeild in a barrel of bitumen, we can upgrade to almost entirely deisel or jet fuel. Other oil suppliers, even heavy producers, can't do that. And as a result, they are going to produce gasoline by requirement. Some of that can be cracked for petrochemicals, but a lot of it will be dumped cheap as refiners chase the high margins on jet fuel, and that will fight against EV uptake. So I do believe there are negatives to climate transition in us taking that off the market because we can serve exclusively the hard to abate uses and bring the cost of those RPPs down to push our conventional refiners.
This is the same reason I believe we can maintain market share in the declining market. The market might want some light oil for petrochemical feed stock - but cracking gasoline will probably drive that out. And medium crudes will be less desirable as well as EVs drive out that gasoline demand and it shifts from the main product to a near waste product.
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@ponzi-d4k If this were a serious proposal from, say France or California, i wouldn't fight it. My concern is avoiding mass bankruptcy, if we can do that for doing nothing, I'm not going to fight it!
Logistically, I don't know how it could be done. How Suncor could say "We produced 700k bbl/d, but we didn't produce 1.5M". Particularly since it will be produced by an OPEC member as a result.
As for the price war, if the Saudis engage in price war, it will be against EVs, not us, imo. And they aren't currently doing that, so unless we got to that point of OPEC collapse, I don't know how we could say we are reducing supply.
Also, I do honestly believe in the medium and long term Oilsands is the more carbon conscious supplier. Because there is no gasoline yeild in a barrel of bitumen, we can upgrade to almost entirely deisel or jet fuel. Other oil suppliers, even heavy producers, can't do that. And as a result, they are going to produce gasoline by requirement. Some of that can be cracked for petrochemicals, but a lot of it will be dumped cheap as refiners chase the high margins on jet fuel, and that will fight against EV uptake. So I do believe there are negatives to climate transition in us taking that off the market because we can serve exclusively the hard to abate uses and bring the cost of those RPPs down to push our conventional refiners.
This is the same reason I believe we can maintain market share in the declining market. The market might want some light oil for petrochemical feed stock - but cracking gasoline will probably drive that out. And medium crudes will be less desirable as well as EVs drive out that gasoline demand and it shifts from the main product to a near waste product..
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@willnitschke even if we supposed I agreed that growing national indeptiness was causative to decline in GDP growth, rather than a result as is obviously possible, you aren't disputing my claim of decreasing spending power per unit currency held, only saying that a nation's output is decreasing.
The second part is just kinda silly. The suggestion medical care, or Medicare/medicaid, spending doesn't add value to the economy is hard to comprehend. Likewise, the focus on interest payments without looking at what the loans paid for is difficult to take seriously; obviously the interest on my mortgage isn't an asset to me, but the house is. Military spending is a real mixed bag and I'm not going to defend every line item of an audit the department can't write up, but obviously some technological advances have been produced, and the question to some extent is what is the best cost for impact in a strategic sense, rather than expecting a direct return.
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@FischerNilsA you could say the same thing about solar ten years ago. And yet it's now the cheapest source of electricity in certain situations and posed for growth into a dominate position globally.
just look at how much of the LCOE is from capital investment vs from fuel costs. Highly efficient is not highly important when your fuel is cheap. SMRs offer lower capital costs per MWh, which is the real constraint.
Also, LCOE for heat and for electricity are different numbers, and while the LCOE for thermal energy is lower than electricity from nuclear energy, it's higher for solar.
I maintain fission, in an appropriate regulatory and policy environment, could be the least expensive source of energy for large industrial parks or oil sands extraction that need process steam, contributing to the power mix in high density and population metropolises, powering cargo shipping, and off grid locations. That doesn't mean it will. We don't have very supportive regulation/policy now.
But one of solar's key advantages is its incremental nature, it's very rare a 1GW power plant is needed or can be accommodated by the grid. SMRs fix this issue as well.
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@markbaker6553 I would certainly be against any government funding for Keystone XL.
But these are not pipelines to the US. They are pipelines to Tidewater, from which ships go to the US to find the highest price. But those ships can go elsewhere.
I guess I don't understand you're necessity oil is not sold to the US. I mean right now, yes, obviously being dependent on US trade is bad. But you seem to be arguing we should have a locked in, infrastructure based dependence out of fear that trade with an option will choose a high price environment that is our historic closest ally.
As an aside, I'd like to see a Northern Gateway to those coastal waters without lifting the tanker ban, tbh, since the ban allows Refined Products to be shipped, and that would require industry to build refineries alongside the pipeline. I'd be willing to some funding support for that. If it's a pipeline for crude shipments, then it should be paid for by private industry, or possibly with government support if that is part of a wider trade deal with Pacific allies where we get some reciprocal investment..
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@Sylvie_M So, in theory, yes. It is conceptually good policy and any smart person would support it. The issue is not everyone is smart, but everyone can vote.
But if I think in the next election, the people against the Carbon tax are going to win, I'm not going to invest in a heat pump/EV, because next year gas will be cheap again.
So it doesn't actually end up encourage me to reduce my carbon footprint. The goal is a price signal, but that signal isn't reliable.
And again, it then undermines industry, who believes the industrial price might be removed, and who is responsible for the majority of emissions.
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I really do think it's important to specify that on the oilsands side, the liabilities are almost entirely from the mining operations north of Fort Mac. Not the Insitu operations that make up a majority of production and expected growth.
In all seriousness, what do you want done about these orphan wells and tailings ponds? I want the industry to clean them up, but I can't see how that is possible without a growth in SAGD Insitu output.
I want to see a production cap on Mining, that allows growth in output for the next 5 years, and then brings us down to something like 80% of current production by 2040 and ends production by 2050, with supplemental quotas issued based on tailings ponds volume reductions. And over that time, we can diversify Fort Mac, and protect the upgrading facilities by moving to biofeed stock, and increasing SAGD at Firebag, or using DRUbit to supply bitumen.
I also want to see the conventional drilling fleet moved to Geothermal, chiefly through depth of drilling based subsidies and subsidies to data center construction that use geothermal. That allows a gradual reduction in production as output falls without new drilling, and keeps the actual companies in operation to service wells they own.
But ultimately, for abandoned wells from the industry fund, there needs to be operating profitable business to fund capping. And that will only come from increasing SAGD output and market access.
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We have a lot of very negative head winds. A blanket Tariff of 10% on oil exports is bad on its own. Trump bringing Russia back into the global market will flood Europe and cut Brent prices (also fertilizer, minerals, lumber, gold, diamonds, nuclear power projects, really everything we do but make car parts, which the tariffs are going to kill anyway), the Saudis appear to be maneuvering toward low prices, and with China about to enter a depression oil demand will collapses.
My biggest fear, not just for Alberta but Canada, is Fort McMurray shutting down and Transmountain being reversed to import light oil for Alberta's refineries.
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@ronanKGelhaus then vote for government with good spending platforms. But I would say that's the opposite of true. Governments will happily tax you into the ground, investors won't happily give their money to a government that won't repay it. Countries see debt purchases dry up all the time.
No businessman or CEO would ever suggest a debt limit for a company, leveraging debt is just good economics, and that's true in government as well. Debt is cheap and capital is expensive, and the same is true for taxes.
-taxes have collections costs at something like 3% of revenue
-taxes distort the economy
-taxes force costs on businesses for accounting
-debt is always taking money from the stupidest person with the least clue of how to invest it, which is why they let someone else do it for a lower rate of return
-debt is always a voluntary exchange
I'd agree to a debt to GDP or debt to Government revenue cap. But as long as government policy is accommodating economic growth and growth in government revenues, I'm happy to see borrowing increase to drive that growth.
As for a land value tax, I'll give you that rich people will game the system, but I hardly think that is unique. It's not like any other tax isn't abused in a way that the rich end up with bigger houses.
But to the smaller houses part, that's not true. Let me ask, if you were going to buy a lot for 1 million dollars, but then I told you you would have to pay 1000 dollars a month for owning it, would you still pay 1 million? Of course not, you would pay less so that you found an equilibrium price where you end up paying the same amount over time. And if you're paying the same amount overall, it doesn't change how you were going to use that land. That's the whole point and the reason everyone from Hayek to Smith to Friedman agreed it was the best for of government revenue, it doesn't affect what anyone actually does, it just lowers the upfront cost of land in exchange for higher ongoing costs.
It also makes it impossible for land Lords to stay rich just owning land, because they have that ongoing payment to make. It does the opposite of putting all the land into the hands of the rich, which you may notice, is happening quite readily already without an LVT.
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To agree with the expert, I don't believe the Consumer Carbon tax was very well done. And having lived in Ottawa when it was being being implemented, and knowing liberal staffers at the time, the Liberals didn't think so either. Remember, the Carbon tax as most of us became accused to it was meant to be punitive, it was a back stop. The system was meant to be designed by the provinces, and implemented according to local best practice.
The Liberals came into power when 90% of the population already had a Carbon tax, and the goal was really to bring the more rural provinces kicking and screaming on board, and ensure the Price was legistlated at two levels so there would be regulatory stability.
The Liberals didn't expect Alberta, and Particularly Ontario, to remove thier own carbon price as they implemented federally, and then turn around and launch a lawsuit against it. The goal was never to apply the Carbon backstop.
But because of that push back, because the opposite of regulatory clarity came to be the status quo with consecutive elections campaigned on removing the carbon price, I would argue the consumer carbon tax quickly became bad policy amd should have been removed much earler, as it was for home heating in the maritimes. Particularly after the Russian - Ukrainian oil price shock. It created so much political back lash that all climate policy was being called into question, and Industry, the largest emitter, no longer had long term certainty that investments made around the carbon price would pay off. Which means the main goal of the carbon price, industrial pricing, was being negatively impacted by the consumer price. Even consumers, deciding on new vehicles or home heating, had to consider whether or not the next election would make thier choice a mistake, and so it didn't have the impact at that level it was meant to.
Edit: this may be a mild blind spot for you, being in a province that did it right, and didn't flop flop, and still maintans the price.
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@willnitschke The hyper inflation was the result of the economic crash with money printing. But you'll never find hyper inflation in a country where there is goods and food on store shelves, people don't start burning money until there is nothing left to buy.
MMT definitely understands there are consequences. Whether you can reasonably use taxes to influence inflation is a reasonable cointer point. I would agree that MMT is inherently stateist, I would suggest it's argument lies on the concept that Fiat money is inherently a statist tool/policy, and treating it like a commodity currency is the flawed approach.
That said I think there are automatic stabilizers, the form of economic policy usually put forward, that keeps the Federal government at a reasonable distance and avoids the disease that is a command economy.
i strongly suggest listening to Bob Murphy (the Austrian Economist interviewed here) debating Warren Mosler (the Founder, so to speak, of MMT). Stephanie Kelton is just awful, and constantly spends her time going on about the minutia of technical details and then seemingly implying absurd outcomes. Warren Mosler and Bill Mitchell are both much better. I'm not saying you'll Agree with it, but I'm fairly libertarian i listen to a lot of Reason debates, and while I thought I did, I didn't even understand MMT until listening Mosler.
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@willnitschke Stimulus policy also is a major component of MMT which is descended from Keynesian economics. I don't disagree that government ROIs in developed economies are generally low, but even a 90¢ return on a dollar in investment is pretty good, it implies you could borrow ~80% of the programs cost and the increased revenue would pay off the debt. Every debt does equal an asset. A debt means I owe someone something, for the other person that is an asset. MMT recognizes the difference between expenses and liabilities, you are mistaken. That isn't something you could really confuse.
The Five basic requirements for a field to be considered scientifically rigorous: clearly defined terminology, quantifiability, highly controlled experimental conditions, reproducibility and, finally, predictability and testability.
The Theory of Evolution, all but universally accepted as valid, is called a theory - and not considered proven - precisely because it cannot be rigorously tested. And evolution only attempts how things came to be, more akin to Economic History. Whereas economics has no rigorously proven basis, and claims to be predicative.
You are right national debt is not literally a commodity. The point being made was that the national debt has already been commodified, and is traded in a free market as a commodity would. I apologize if any other meaning was taken.
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@willnitschke Stimulus policy also is a major component of MMT which is descended from Keynesian economics. I don't disagree that government ROIs in developed economies are generally low, but even a 90¢ return on a dollar in investment is pretty good, it implies you could borrow ~80% of the programs cost and the increased revenue would pay off the debt. Every debt does equal an asset. A debt means I owe someone something, for the other person that is an asset. MMT recognizes the difference between expenses and liabilities, you are mistaken. That isn't something you could really confuse.
The Five basic requirements for a field to be considered scientifically rigorous: clearly defined terminology, quantifiability, highly controlled experimental conditions, reproducibility and, finally, predictability and testability.
The Theory of Evolution, all but universally accepted as valid, is called a theory - and not considered proven - precisely because it cannot be rigorously tested. And evolution only attempts how things came to be, more akin to Economic History. Whereas economics has no rigorously proven basis, and claims to be predicative.
You are right national debt is not literally a commodity. The point being made was that the national debt has already been commodified, and is traded in a free market as a commodity would. I apologize if any other meaning was taken.
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@willnitschke @willnitschke Stimulus policy also is a major component of MMT which is descended from Keynesian economics. I don't disagree that government ROIs in developed economies are generally low, but even a 90¢ return on a dollar in investment is pretty good, it implies you could borrow ~80% of the programs cost and the increased revenue would pay off the debt. Every debt does equal an asset. A debt means I owe someone something, for the other person that is an asset. MMT recognizes the difference between expenses and liabilities, you are mistaken. That isn't something you could really confuse.
The Five basic requirements for a field to be considered scientifically rigorous: clearly defined terminology, quantifiability, highly controlled experimental conditions, reproducibility and, finally, predictability and testability.
The Theory of Evolution, all but universally accepted as valid, is called a theory - and not considered proven - precisely because it cannot be rigorously tested. And evolution only attempts how things came to be, more akin to Economic History. Whereas economics has no rigorously proven basis, and claims to be predicative.
You are right national debt is not literally a commodity. The point being made was that the national debt has already been commodified, and is traded in a free market as a commodity would. I apologize if any other meaning was taken.
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@willnitschke Stimulus policy also is a major component of MMT which is descended from Keynesian economics. I don't disagree that government ROIs in developed economies are generally low, but even a 90¢ return on a dollar in investment is pretty good, it implies you could borrow ~80% of the programs cost and the increased revenue would pay off the debt. Every debt does equal an asset. A debt means I owe someone something, for the other person that is an asset. MMT recognizes the difference between expenses and liabilities, you are mistaken. That isn't something you could really confuse.
The Five basic requirements for a field to be considered scientifically rigorous: clearly defined terminology, quantifiability, highly controlled experimental conditions, reproducibility and, finally, predictability and testability.
The Theory of Evolution, all but universally accepted as valid, is called a theory - and not considered proven - precisely because it cannot be rigorously tested. And evolution only attempts how things came to be, more akin to Economic History. Whereas economics has no rigorously proven basis, and claims to be predicative.
You are right national debt is not literally a commodity. The point being made was that the national debt has already been commodified, and is traded in a free market as a commodity would. I apologize if any other meaning was taken.
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@willnitschke Stimulus policy also is a major component of MMT which is descended from Keynesian economics. I don't disagree that government ROIs in developed economies are generally low, but even a 90¢ return on a dollar in investment is pretty good, it implies you could borrow ~80% of the programs cost and the increased revenue would pay off the debt. Every debt does equal an asset. A debt means I owe someone something, for the other person that is an asset. MMT recognizes the difference between expenses and liabilities, you are mistaken. That isn't something you could really confuse.
The Five basic requirements for a field to be considered scientifically rigorous: clearly defined terminology, quantifiability, highly controlled experimental conditions, reproducibility and, finally, predictability and testability.
The Theory of Evolution, all but universally accepted as valid, is called a theory - and not considered proven - precisely because it cannot be rigorously tested. And evolution only attempts how things came to be, more akin to Economic History. Whereas economics has no rigorously proven basis, and claims to be predicative.
You are right national debt is not literally a commodity. The point being made was that the national debt has already been commodified, and is traded in a free market as a commodity would. I apologize if any other meaning was taken.
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Frankly speaking, in all likelihood yes, they can. Employment in Construction seems to vary most much more than average with recessions. Many recessions are primarily a result of a building collapse, 2007, Savings and Loans Crisis, the Great Depression, etc.
But more to the point, you are correct that not every unemployment individual will end up working in construction. But I do support the concept of a Guaranteed Employment scheme. I would suggest keeping the federal government, which responds slowly and bluntly, largely out of the operation. Instead I would have a federally funded program wherein Municipal governments and Charities can pay people minimum wage for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. I would also open it up to Manufacturing companies to cover up to 6 months of training, although half the cost would have to be repaid if the trainee wasn't employed there a year later. Smaller and generally financially strained entities will react much more quickly and efficiently to the available labour pool. They aren't stealing jobs from the private sector because of the limits on hours available and wage. But it would keep employment up in a recession while getting things done.
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@geofflepper3207 I see when I click your avatar (you replied in another video and I thought I recognized the name, is it actually your name or meant to look like deaf leopard? I think it's pretty solid if the later lol), but you replied to me about the experts saying I'm wrong and that got deleted.
But I don't believe they do say that. Ultimately, every barrel of Canadian Western Select is priced in Hardisty outside Edmonton. Regardless of where it ultimately ends up, pipelines may have differing fees, but all oil is sold at the same price.
We have some 600k a day flowing down Keystone to the US's Gulf Coast refineries. Which means every barrel in Hardisty needs to be competitive with the price those refineries buy at. The price of CWS+the tariff + pipeline fees (which are a small component, but Keystone is already the more expensive) has to equal the global price, or else the Gulf refineries will switch. Which means every barrel of CWS, including those going to the Midwest, has to subtract the cost of the tariff from their current price. Any tariff will show up as a discount on our oil.
If the Gulf refineries stop buying, then we have an immediate oversupply, which will force prices down as producers have no where to store significant quantities and will lose more money stopping production al together where that is even possible.
Also, Marathon is already saying it can switch over it's refineries to run on Bakken. That's another 300k a day. It isn't actually hard for the US refiners to move away from Canadian Crude, it just means they lose a bunch of investment. But within 2 years Keystone could be reversed, and add barges on the Mississippi, you can bring another million barrels a day north from the Gulf, and push out another million barrels a day from the Midwest.
And frankly, especially if we try to retaliate and reduce supply like we did in 2018 to support prices, I think they will cut Line 5, which Michigan is already trying to do, under EPA order. That's another 300k barrels a day, and half of Ontario's pipeline supply gone.
I'm not even mentioning the Washington refineries or California refineries currently taking our product because in theory we can ship anything that reaches the Pacific by sea, but in reality that is a very congested waterway and adding so many super tankers will be difficult, particularly initially because they generally aren't floating around the Pacific coast and will take weeks to arrive after needing an economic incentive to leave their normal clients..
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I disagree with this. While that was historically true, conventional oil no longer dominates the market, at least in North America and Europe.
Lower oil demand will reduce oil sands demand. Oil sands operations don't coproduce NG, and in fact consume it to produce steam or run upgraders. So in Alberta/Western Canada, I would expect NG prices to fall (although LNG Canada will counteract this).
In the US, shale fracking has become dominant, and NG is arguably the driver for much of the activity. Lower oil prices will likely reduce new fracked wells, but existing wells will contention produce and become increasingly gassy as they do.
In both cases, the real question is will international LNG demand be high enough to raise NG prices and drive new production. I'm doubtful, but if that is the case, I would expect Qatar, with much lower production costs, to take market share, not for regional NG prices to increase..
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@jtjones4081 it usually sells much closer to an $18 discount, the 30 number is from 2018 when there were pipeline capacity issues, it's not the norm. But being cheaper is one advantage. I agree DilBit is nasty stuff, but bitumen and synthetic blends are perfectly good.
But they don't "charge you" to refine and upgrade bitumen, that's why the discount exists, and the Midwest regularly has the cheapest gas in the US because of bitumen.
More importantly, shale is "easier" to refine, but the products are all NGLs and gasoline. You get very little diesel, jet fuel, and lubricants, anything from the heavy end of the barrel. And with gasoline demand flat or decreasing since 2000, and EVs growing, diesel and the heavy stuff is what you need.
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@yodieyuh Ya I would agree that people are looking at what are really dual problems of poor Russian logistics and political motivations to avoid changing the day to day life of the Average Russian, coupled with systemic corruption (ongoing) before the the war leading to incredibly poor ready states and logistics. And at earlier stages in the war, an incredible level of incompetence by Officers. However, learning from Wagner, while death tolls are higher, Russia has become a far more effective advancing corps.
However, the equipment loss, particularly in terms of armoured vehicles, and industrial capital loss from sanctions, high output of weapons wear and tear, and strategic strikes, are rather damming for Russia's ability to maintain a campaign, particularly if aggressive, against a NATO coalition, particularly as Europe and the US have taken the clue to increase their own shell production.
And perhaps more significantly, Ukrainian equipment is largely outdated or unwanted NATO material. Take all the M113s and Humvees. That's all stuff the US government wanted to write off and while they have some usage, they were never designed for this form of conflict. The MRAPs have been more of a success, but NATO drastically over built these and was planning of retiring enormous amounts, and still hold enormous amounts, and they have proven somewhat effective for mine fields, even though they are nearly uselessly armoured.
Given hundreds of Abrams and Thousands of Bradleys, along with all the most recent generation tanks, I think the Russian military would be much harder pressed to hold a line. And more importantly, I don't believe the Russians can see an F22 or F35, and certainly not everywhere and everytime. A strategic air campaign against Russia seems almost unavoidably successful given Ukraine's success with drones.
However, Russia has been quick to innovate with and become highly proficient using FPV drone units and advancing infantry movements in ways that no other Military has any reasonable training. Assuming Russian strategic security due to fear of nuclear weapons, and NATO advancement on the ground toward Russia, with Russian internal logistics being much stronger, a much larger conscript force to mount a slow retreat grinding down NATO, and using Ukrainian hardened infantry as Shock troops to maximize casualties against NATO weak positions or maintain critical ground, particularly with continued North Korean Support possibly to the point of opening a new front, would be a horrendous war and Russia would be very difficult to invade.
However, I have no idea, outside of Kremlin fears, why NATO would ever try a land invasion of Russia when it is obviously a doomed enterprise. And while limited armoured vehicle access would hinder this defensive action, it would make large scale offensives impossible.
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@yodieyuh Ya I would agree that people are looking at what are really dual problems of poor Russian logistics and political motivations to avoid changing the day to day life of the Average Russian, coupled with systemic corruption (ongoing) before the the war leading to incredibly poor ready states and logistics. And at earlier stages in the war, an incredible level of incompetence by Officers. However, learning from Wagner, while death tolls are higher, Russia has become a far more effective advancing corps.
However, the equipment loss, particularly in terms of armoured vehicles, and industrial capital loss from sanctions, high output of weapons wear and tear, and strategic strikes, are rather damming for Russia's ability to maintain a campaign, particularly if aggressive, against a NATO coalition, particularly as Europe and the US have taken the clue to increase their own shell production.
And perhaps more significantly, Ukrainian equipment is largely outdated or unwanted NATO material. Take all the M113s and Humvees. That's all stuff the US government wanted to write off and while they have some usage, they were never designed for this form of conflict. The MRAPs have been more of a success, but NATO drastically over built these and was planning of retiring enormous amounts, and still hold enormous amounts, and they have proven somewhat effective for mine fields, even though they are nearly uselessly armoured.
Given hundreds of Abrams and Thousands of Bradleys, along with all the most recent generation tanks, I think the Russian military would be much harder pressed to hold a line. And more importantly, I don't believe the Russians can see an F22 or F35, and certainly not everywhere and everytime. A strategic air campaign against Russia seems almost unavoidably successful given Ukraine's success with drones.
However, Russia has been quick to innovate with and become highly proficient using FPV drone units and advancing infantry movements in ways that no other Military has any reasonable training. Assuming Russian strategic security due to fear of nuclear weapons, and NATO advancement on the ground toward Russia, with Russian internal logistics being much stronger, a much larger conscript force to mount a slow retreat grinding down NATO, and using Ukrainian hardened infantry as Shock troops to maximize casualties against NATO weak positions or maintain critical ground, particularly with continued North Korean Support possibly to the point of opening a new front, would be a horrendous war and Russia would be very difficult to invade.
However, I have no idea, outside of Kremlin fears, why NATO would ever try a land invasion of Russia when it is obviously a doomed enterprise. And while limited armoured vehicle access would hinder this defensive action, it would make large scale offensives impossible.
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@yodieyuh Ya I would agree that people are looking at what are really dual problems of poor Russian logistics and political motivations to avoid changing the day to day life of the Average Russian, coupled with systemic corruption (ongoing) before the the war leading to incredibly poor ready states and logistics. And at earlier stages in the war, an incredible level of incompetence by Officers. However, learning from Wagner, while death tolls are higher, Russia has become a far more effective advancing corps.
However, the equipment loss, particularly in terms of armoured vehicles, and industrial capital loss from sanctions, high output of weapons wear and tear, and strategic strikes, are rather damming for Russia's ability to maintain a campaign, particularly if aggressive, against a NATO coalition, particularly as Europe and the US have taken the clue to increase their own shell production. And this is combined with the weakened foreign reserve status, although if a freeze was reached where Russia regained its foreign assets, prior to a NATO Russia conflict, that may be less of an issue if Russia internalized it's economy and realigns trade in the interm.
And perhaps more significantly, Ukrainian equipment is largely outdated or unwanted NATO material. Take all the M113s and Humvees. That's all stuff the US government wanted to write off and while they have some usage, they were never designed for this form of conflict. The MRAPs have been more of a success, but NATO drastically over built these and was planning of retiring enormous amounts, and still hold enormous amounts, and they have proven somewhat effective for mine fields, even though they are nearly uselessly armoured.
Given hundreds of Abrams and Thousands of Bradleys, along with all the most recent generation tanks, I think the Russian military would be much harder pressed to hold a line. And more importantly, I don't believe the Russians can see an F22 or F35, and certainly not everywhere and everytime. A strategic air campaign against Russia seems almost unavoidably successful given Ukraine's success with drones.
However, Russia has been quick to innovate with and become highly proficient using FPV drone units and advancing infantry movements in ways that no other Military has any reasonable training. Assuming Russian strategic security due to fear of nuclear weapons, and NATO advancement on the ground toward Russia, with Russian internal logistics being much stronger, a much larger conscript force to mount a slow retreat grinding down NATO, and using Ukrainian hardened infantry as Shock troops to maximize casualties against NATO weak positions or maintain critical ground, particularly with continued North Korean Support possibly to the point of opening a new front, would be a horrendous war and Russia would be very difficult to invade.
However, I have no idea, outside of Kremlin fears, why NATO would ever try a land invasion of Russia when it is obviously a doomed enterprise. And while limited armoured vehicle access would hinder this defensive action, it would make large scale offensives impossible.
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@yodieyuh Ya I would agree that people are looking at what are really dual problems of poor Russian logistics and political motivations to avoid changing the day to day life of the Average Russian, coupled with systemic corruption (ongoing) before the the war leading to incredibly poor ready states and logistics. And at earlier stages in the war, an incredible level of incompetence by Officers. However, learning from Wagner, while death tolls are higher, Russia has become a far more effective advancing corps.
However, the equipment loss, particularly in terms of armoured vehicles, and industrial capital loss from sanctions, high output of weapons wear and tear, and strategic strikes, are rather damming for Russia's ability to maintain a campaign, particularly if aggressive, against a NATO coalition, particularly as Europe and the US have taken the clue to increase their own shell production. And this is combined with the weakened foreign reserve status, although if a freeze was reached where Russia regained its foreign assets, prior to a NATO Russia conflict, that may be less of an issue if Russia internalized it's economy and realigns trade in the interm.
And perhaps more significantly, Ukrainian equipment is largely outdated or unwanted NATO material. Take all the M113s and Humvees. That's all stuff the US government wanted to write off and while they have some usage, they were never designed for this form of conflict. The MRAPs have been more of a success, but NATO drastically over built these and was planning of retiring enormous amounts, and still hold enormous amounts, and they have proven somewhat effective for mine fields, even though they are nearly uselessly armoured.
Given hundreds of Abrams and Thousands of Bradleys, along with all the most recent generation tanks, I think the Russian military would be much harder pressed to hold a line. And more importantly, I don't believe the Russians can see an F22 or F35, and certainly not everywhere and everytime. A strategic air campaign against Russia seems almost unavoidably successful given Ukraine's success with drones.
However, Russia has been quick to innovate with and become highly proficient using FPV drone units and advancing infantry movements in ways that no other Military has any reasonable training. Assuming Russian strategic security due to fear of nuclear weapons, and NATO advancement on the ground toward Russia, with Russian internal logistics being much stronger, a much larger conscript force to mount a slow retreat grinding down NATO, and using Ukrainian hardened infantry as Shock troops to maximize casualties against NATO weak positions or maintain critical ground, particularly with continued North Korean Support possibly to the point of opening a new front, would be a horrendous war and Russia would be very difficult to invade.
However, I have no idea, outside of Kremlin fears, why NATO would ever try a land invasion of Russia when it is obviously a doomed enterprise. Perhaps if Russia quickly stole the Baltics and NATO was fighting through only Poland? But the very act of stealing the Baltics would make the Baltic sea useless the Russia. And while limited armoured vehicle access would hinder this defensive action, it would make large scale offensives impossible.
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@yodieyuh
2/6) However, the equipment loss, particularly in terms of armoured vehicles, and industrial capital loss from sanctions, high output of weapons wear and tear, and strategic strikes, are rather damming for Russia's ability to maintain a campaign, particularly if aggressive, against a NATO coalition, particularly as Europe and the US have taken the clue to increase their own shell production. And this is combined with the weakened foreign reserve status, although if a freeze was reached where Russia regained its foreign assets, prior to a NATO Russia conflict, that may be less of an issue if Russia internalized it's economy and realigns trade in the interm.
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@CanadianPatriot-h3x to rapidly simplify, A nuclear reactor is some fissionable material in a layout that allows a fissionable chain reaction, a moderator that makes neutrons move at a speed that allows a fission chain reaction, and a coolent that moves heat away from the core.
If a CanDu were to start to over heat, the many horizontal pipes holding nuclear material would overheat and start to sag in the middle, and the shape would no longer allow a sustained reaction, in the worse case. Normally, any power interruption will drop boron rods hung by an electromagnet into the reactor to adsorb neutrons. And failing that, the heavy water is able to convection circulate, so even without pumps it will cool the reaction. And the heavy water is also the moderator, so if it drained or something the reaction would also stop.
Chernobyl used a graphite moderator so without cooling, the reaction couldn't be stopped and continued to accelerate. And Fukushima not only couldn't convection circulate the coolent, but had the backup diesel generators for the pumps in a basement below sealevel, so when the tsunami hit there was no way to cool. And the nuclear mass wasn't in a geomatry that would naturally disform.
CanDus are the safest design on the planet. Thats why everyone copys them/ they sold so well internationally. They are walk away safe. There has never been anything close to a melt down.
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@CanadianPatriot-h3x to drastically simplify, a nuclear reactor is a pile of fissionable matterial in a certain geometry, a moderator that allows the reaction to occur, and coolant.
Normally boron rods on an electromagnetic powered parasiticly would fall and stop the reaction if the power cut off. Failing that, the heavy water can flow convectively, so if pumps fail it won't over heat. If the heavy water drained, the moderator disappears, and the reaction stops. And failing that, the pipes holding the nuclear material would sag, and the shape would no longer allow a reaction.
Chernobyl useda graphite block moderator, so once the reaction boiled off the coolent it couldn't stop. Fukushima's geometry was in a block and wouldn't disfigure, and couldn't convectively cool, and the generators for the back up pumps were stored below sea level, so once the wave hit there was no way to cool. And in both cases the danger was previously identified amd ignored.
CanDus are walk away safe. Thats why they sell well internationally.
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@PlayChaosVoices firstly, I'm Canadian.
Secondly, why would any of our Auto manufacturing be safe? Fundamentally, except maybe refining aluminium because of the electrical demand, what special advantage do we have. They talk in the video about wether our EV investments will go forward, that's because our special advantage was access to the US market. Without that there is no reason to invest here to build American car parts.
Thirdly, don't trick yourself into thinking they need our oil. We have seen a million barrels a day go off line this month. That's seasonal, it's for maintenance, but the US isn't hurting over it, and the question is what happens to prices when it comes back on.
600k bbl/d goes south to the US Gulf, they can get that from seaborne imports if they need a heavy. Marathon has already said they can retool, with that about 300k bbl/d in the Midwest could switch over to light oil from heavy. Within 2 years, if they are serious about hurting us, they could reverse Keystone and bring another million barrels a day north. That's 2M bbl/d lost.
The other 2M bbl/d we sell is probably safe. But that still means we have massive over capacity pushing prices to the lowest possible level and bankrupting the mining operations.
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@billpetersen298 it's important to understand why China is building coal though. In part it's politics around regional vs central governments, but mainly it's because China doesn't have access to a lot of NG. Coal is used balance the grid in the same way the US uses NG. But China is building an enormous amount of solar and wind, and storage. Now, storage is largely only a few hours, but coal will soon be relegated to mainly serving overnight demand.
China builds coal plants, but it also closes coal plants, and the new plants are generally larger and much more efficient, so while you may have more coal capacity, you aren't necessarily building more coal. Actual coal demand in the second half of this year is expected to be lower than the second half of 2023, because the drought in the South seems to have ended bringing hydro back on line.
All of that is to say, yes, China still burns coal. But coal consumption has only seen increases in the last few years due to drought, and even then relatively small increases. Actual consumption will likely drop over the next few years quite rapidly because of the solar and storage build out.
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@tommygun5038 I understand the position, and I'd even go so far as to reject the mainstream opinion that the two aren't at all joined as much of the material (Humvees, MRAPs, small arms, surveillance drones), though not all (Shells, Anti aircraft , armoured vehicles) could be directed to the border - although whether the south of Texas actually wants US surveillance drones overhead their property is questionable.
The issue is that you allowed the Ukrainian front to nearly collapse, the military be to severely degraded, and American defense ties to Europe weakened. And frankly, that's a very high cost to take seriously for a political manoeuvre that failed when Texas, the state feeling the majority of the migrant crisis, sees the second highest GDP growth in the country. Particularly when such a bill was passed on the Senate and rejected by Republicans in the house.
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@therighteousrighthand Sweden is a very unusual case, and even they are now partnering internationally for their next generation fighters. And, along with all the big players, we would also be competing against Sweden. In many ways I would prefer to work with Sweden and buy their products than attempt to enter an industry they are struggling in.
But I certainly agree with the rest. I just don't agree with your industries. Halifax, Either Vancouver or Prince Rupert, and Southern Ontario should all house massive food processing industries to value add to the enormous amount of food we export raw and in bulk.
We need to start allowing mining again. I'm the a cut the red tape type problem solver, and there is lots of other things we should do, but in the case of mining cutting tape is a must do. All the EV manufacturing and batteries were premised on us having the supply chain to keep costs low. Without that, our only advantage was access to the US market. Maybe we can do well in the battery market, and that the main thing for EVs, if we have the supply chains. But I'm not going to support EVs if we aren't creating the inputs.
We need to build some pipelines to the West Coast. An east coast pipeline is fine, good for economic security, and we might be able to get Europe to invest in it if they feel the US is unreliable. But we should have massive petrochemical facilities on the West. It's import to understand we don't have all that much oil, we have bitumen it's as different as NG from oil, and the advantage here is that Oil is going to be hurt by EVs kicking out demand for gasoline. Bitumen doesn't have that problem, we can turn it all to diesel, or jet fuel. Or non combustion uses like Asphalt or lubricants or even carbon fiber. And we can have a dominant position in Asia with that.
Along with that I'm pretty pro Hydrogen investment. It's unlikely to be relevant for energy, but we can use it in our fertilizer industry, we can use it to upgrade that bitumen to other products, we can use it in industry for heating. And also SMRs, we should be ripping out the boilers in the Oilsands and using nuclear for the steam generation. Likewise for the petrochemical clusters or other industrial clusters or upgraders.
In terms of Industry/manufacturing, I'll take whatever the Europeans will invest in us, wether it's artillery or hydrogen/ammonia or an LNG pipeline. If they pay I'm in, the east coast has always been an economic weakness.
If I'm using government money, I'll support wind turbines (particularly in NF), mining equipment, and maybe heat pumps and solar cells. Things we need domestically at scale for either cost of living and lowering consumer energy costs or for powering industry, and can find large export markets particularly in Latin America. And I'm okay to throw some money at Additive manufacturing/3D printing random consumer junk but I don't expect it to stick.
Last point, agricultural. 3 pillars and 2 add on. 1) we should be trying to pull in Dutch farmers finding land to expensive in the Netherlands to come to southern Ontario and the two food hubs and putting money into a massive greenhouse industry, and building those greenhouses. 2) we should be trying to turn the tundra into a massive grazing land for cattle and some additional animals, domestic muskox for wool and bringing in some Fins for Caribou. 3) we should be subsidizing kelp farming on the east coast to drive employment, increase fish stocks, and use it as biomass for fertilizer, Biogas, and chemicals. And 2 less large scale, creating more markets for berries from the North, and trying to bring in some American farmers from Wisconsin/Minnesota who have been priced out to develop Ontario's sand belt for wheat.
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@therighteousrighthand Sweden is a very unusual case, and even they are now partnering internationally for their next generation fighters. And, along with all the big players, we would also be competing against Sweden. In many ways I would prefer to work with Sweden and buy their products than attempt to enter an industry they are struggling in.
But I certainly agree with the rest. I just don't agree with your industries. Halifax, Either Vancouver or Prince Rupert, and Southern Ontario should all house massive food processing industries to value add to the enormous amount of food we export raw and in bulk.
We need to start allowing mining again. I'm the a cut the red tape type problem solver, and there is lots of other things we should do, but in the case of mining cutting tape is a must do. All the EV manufacturing and batteries were premised on us having the supply chain to keep costs low. Without that, our only advantage was access to the US market. Maybe we can do well in the battery market, and that the main thing for EVs, if we have the supply chains. But I'm not going to support EVs if we aren't creating the inputs.
We need to build some pipelines to the West Coast. An east coast pipeline is fine, good for economic security, and we might be able to get Europe to invest in it if they feel the US is unreliable. But we should have massive petrochemical facilities on the West. It's import to understand we don't have all that much oil, we have bitumen it's as different as NG from oil, and the advantage here is that Oil is going to be hurt by EVs kicking out demand for gasoline. Bitumen doesn't have that problem, we can turn it all to diesel, or jet fuel. Or non combustion uses like Asphalt or lubricants or even carbon fiber. And we can have a dominant position in Asia with that.
Along with that I'm pretty pro Hydrogen investment. It's unlikely to be relevant for energy, but we can use it in our fertilizer industry, we can use it to upgrade that bitumen to other products, we can use it in industry for heating. And also SMRs, we should be ripping out the boilers in the Oilsands and using nuclear for the steam generation. Likewise for the petrochemical clusters or other industrial clusters or upgraders.
In terms of Industry/manufacturing, I'll take whatever the Europeans will invest in us, wether it's artillery or hydrogen/ammonia or an LNG pipeline. If they pay I'm in, the east coast has always been an economic weakness.
If I'm using government money, I'll support wind turbines (particularly in NF), mining equipment, and maybe heat pumps and solar cells. Things we need domestically at scale for either cost of living and lowering consumer energy costs or for powering industry, and can find large export markets particularly in Latin America. And I'm okay to throw some money at Additive manufacturing/3D printing random consumer junk but I don't expect it to stick.
Last point, agricultural. 3 pillars and 2 add on. 1) we should be trying to pull in Dutch farmers finding land to expensive in the Netherlands to come to southern Ontario and the two food hubs and putting money into a massive greenhouse industry, and building those greenhouses. 2) we should be trying to turn the tundra into a massive grazing land for cattle and some additional animals, domestic muskox for wool and bringing in some Fins for Caribou. 3) we should be subsidizing kelp farming on the east coast to drive employment, increase fish stocks, and use it as biomass for fertilizer, Biogas, and chemicals. And 2 less large scale, creating more markets for berries from the North, and trying to bring in some American farmers from Wisconsin/Minnesota who have been priced out to develop Ontario's sand belt for wheat..
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@Michaelme-de8zz eventually yes. That is the point, to develop an industry that both acts as a long term export and low cost energy advantage, while also creating new long term markets for oilsands operators to switch to selling energy in the long run.
But in the short run
1)because of the same reason we burn NG, a positive EROI. Using it to produce Bitumen returns more energy than it consumes, something like 5x as much
2) Nuclear is more efficient for thermal energy than electrical due to conversion loss, of at least 40%, so we'll say it's twice as efficient as producing steam than we are electricity.
3) the products you make from bitumen - heavy RPPs like diesel and jet fuel, Base oils, Asphalt - are very difficult to replace and will take much longer than gasoline. However, they are also very energy intensive and difficult to make with other methods. It easily requires 5x the energy you get out of the process to turn CO2 into long chain Hydrocarbons.
So the usefulness of trying to extract bitumen is like 50x higher than corresponding electrical generation to produce liquid fuels. And 10x more efficient than electricity for direct use, and 25x more effective than directly producing fuels without converting to electricity.
There aren't that many demand centers the require an SMR, but the oil sands represents an enormous amount of them. That is after all why they are such high emitters currently. and of course we should do Sask Coal plants and possibly Canada LNG at the same time.
But the oil sands represents an industry wide customer with long term investment horizons. And SMRs only work with bulk customers and large scale production. It's an ideal Combustion to commercialize. And the fact it will give an industry with $100s of billions in liabilities the opportunity to address them without a financial crisis id say is a major benefit as well.
And of course once commercialized and large scale lowers production prices, new uses quickly appear such as electrical generation or Thermal conversion to Hydrogen or powering off grid communities or mines. But because we have a very large existing oil sector that is at risk of competitiveness, because SMRs provide such a disproportionate advantage to that sector than other uses, and because it allows us to deploy the SMRs locally while generating exports, this is a clear pathway forward.
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@Michaelme-de8zz Your reply isn't appearing undermine, but I'm response;
I absolutely agree with the quick oil decline pathway being the most likely. I think EVs will rapidly reduce demand for gasoline. However, that will disproportionately advantage the oilsands and punish Light and medium producers. Bitumen is not oil any more than Natural Gas is, much as NG is the light Hydrocarbons that act as a gas, Bitumen is the heavy Hydrocarbons that are a solid.
Because of this, bitumen can be selectively upgraded into specific products. Namely Diesel and Jet fuel, for which not only will there be a much longer demand horizon, but which conventional producers and refiners will struggle to provide due to the high gasoline fraction inherent to their oil. Refineries will not want medium crudes. Even heavy conventional crudes have a gasoline fraction which will be less desirable - although the ratio of heavier RPPs is much better. Bitumen can be converted almost entirely to certain products, Sturgeon Falls upgrades a barrel of bitumen almost 80% to diesel.
I don't agree other producers can operate at significantly lower costs, and I would argue that in the medium and long run the WTI premium will reverse. We already see Albian heavy synthetic (an upgraded, bottlemless heavy synthetic oil) and Western Access Blend (a DilBit) trading above WTI. So I don't believe we will have very much issue finding markets. Particularly if SMRs are providing the heat for steam, the main cost of SAGD operations is the NG consumption.
In the longer run, we do need to be building things like asphalt refineries and Carbon Fiber, and specializing in areas like Base Oil/Lubricants. And as I said, we should be pushing investment into Upgraders to use as Diluent or sell directly as Heavy SCOs. And, of course those refineries should use nuclear heat, and of course they should use green Hydrogen in upgrading. And longer term, they should look increasingly at Biomass and CO2 inputs.
But please consider the cost of allowing the oilsands to fail. The cost of the tailings ponds if the companies declare bankruptcy and abandon them, the impact on the financial system (banks, pensions) when they default on debt, and the cost of the Alberta economy collapsing. Both the economic, and social/political costs. This industry needs to be rebuilt, and we do have a very short time period to do so. But we have several decades in which we can dominate the market for heavy RPPs as EVs make conventional oil producers struggle enormous quantities of gasoline no one wants. If we encourage investment, and not stifle it, we can use it to both fund the future and bring it into the future. If we don't, it will cost us enormously for absolutely nothing in return..
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@Michaelme-de8zz Your reply isn't appearing undermine, but I'm response;
I absolutely agree with the quick oil decline pathway being the most likely. I think EVs will rapidly reduce demand for gasoline. However, that will disproportionately advantage the oilsands and punish Light and medium producers. Bitumen is not oil any more than Natural Gas is, much as NG is the light Hydrocarbons that act as a gas, Bitumen is the heavy Hydrocarbons that are a solid.
Because of this, bitumen can be selectively upgraded into specific products. Namely Diesel and Jet fuel, for which not only will there be a much longer demand horizon, but which conventional producers and refiners will struggle to provide due to the high gasoline fraction inherent to their oil. Refineries will not want medium crudes. Even heavy conventional crudes have a gasoline fraction which will be less desirable - although the ratio of heavier RPPs is much better. Bitumen can be converted almost entirely to certain products, Sturgeon Falls upgrades a barrel of bitumen almost 80% to diesel.
I don't agree other producers can operate at significantly lower costs, and I would argue that in the medium and long run the WTI premium will reverse. We already see Albian heavy synthetic (an upgraded, bottlemless heavy synthetic oil) and Western Access Blend (a DilBit) trading above WTI. So I don't believe we will have very much issue finding markets. Particularly if SMRs are providing the heat for steam, the main cost of SAGD operations is the NG consumption.
In the longer run, we do need to be building things like asphalt refineries and Carbon Fiber, and specializing in areas like Base Oil/Lubricants. And as I said, we should be pushing investment into Upgraders to use as Diluent or sell directly as Heavy SCOs. And, of course those refineries should use nuclear heat, and of course they should use green Hydrogen in upgrading. And longer term, they should look increasingly at Biomass and CO2 inputs.
But please consider the cost of allowing the oilsands to fail. The cost of the tailings ponds if the companies declare bankruptcy and abandon them, the impact on the financial system (banks, pensions) when they default on debt, and the cost of the Alberta economy collapsing. Both the economic, and social/political costs. This industry needs to be rebuilt, and we do have a very short time period to do so. But we have several decades in which we can dominate the market for heavy RPPs as EVs make conventional oil producers struggle enormous quantities of gasoline no one wants. If we encourage investment, and not stifle it, we can use it to both fund the future and bring it into the future. If we don't, it will cost us enormously for absolutely nothing in return.
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Your reply isn't appearing undermine, but I'm response;
I absolutely agree with the quick oil decline pathway being the most likely. I think EVs will rapidly reduce demand for gasoline. However, that will disproportionately advantage the oilsands and punish Light and medium producers. Bitumen is not oil any more than Natural Gas is, much as NG is the light Hydrocarbons that act as a gas, Bitumen is the heavy Hydrocarbons that are a solid.
Because of this, bitumen can be selectively upgraded into specific products. Namely Diesel and Jet fuel, for which not only will there be a much longer demand horizon, but which conventional producers and refiners will struggle to provide due to the high gasoline fraction inherent to their oil. Refineries will not want medium crudes. Even heavy conventional crudes have a gasoline fraction which will be less desirable - although the ratio of heavier RPPs is much better. Bitumen can be converted almost entirely to certain products, Sturgeon Falls upgrades a barrel of bitumen almost 80% to diesel.
I don't agree other producers can operate at significantly lower costs, and I would argue that in the medium and long run the WTI premium will reverse. We already see Albian heavy synthetic (an upgraded, bottlemless heavy synthetic oil) and Western Access Blend (a DilBit) trading above WTI. So I don't believe we will have very much issue finding markets. Particularly if SMRs are providing the heat for steam, the main cost of SAGD operations is the NG consumption.
In the longer run, we do need to be building things like asphalt refineries and Carbon Fiber, and specializing in areas like Base Oil/Lubricants. And as I said, we should be pushing investment into Upgraders to use as Diluent or sell directly as Heavy SCOs. And, of course those refineries should use nuclear heat, and of course they should use green Hydrogen in upgrading. And longer term, they should look increasingly at Biomass and CO2 inputs.
But please consider the cost of allowing the oilsands to fail. The cost of the tailings ponds if the companies declare bankruptcy and abandon them, the impact on the financial system (banks, pensions) when they default on debt, and the cost of the Alberta economy collapsing. Both the economic, and social/political costs. This industry needs to be rebuilt, and we do have a very short time period to do so. But we have several decades in which we can dominate the market for heavy RPPs as EVs make conventional oil producers struggle enormous quantities of gasoline no one wants. If we encourage investment, and not stifle it, we can use it to both fund the future and bring it into the future. If we don't, it will cost us enormously for absolutely nothing in return.
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@matthewq4b really this is several points
1) Does industry want upgraded crude. To which I would argue the answer seems yes, and Albian Heavy synthetic is one of our highest value crudes. Heavy refineries want bitumen to coke, I agree, but bottlemless heavies with high distalite can be used by any tea kettle refinery, which will otherwise be struggling with an excess of light products.
I tend to agree the Upgraded crude market is somewhat limited. And that a large market exists for heavy bitumen to be specifically upgraded. However, I think we should be requiring that as of 2026, 5% of dilutent (perhaps on a credit trading system) is SCO, with an increasing ratio over time towards to goal of replacing DilBit exports with SynBit. That not only increases value added activities and improves distillate yields for purchasers, it also avoids the limitations on oilsands growth from dilutent.
2) Does industry want partially upgraded crude? I think the answer here is a yes. Partial upgrading increases, not decreases, the amount of bitumen per barrel, as to your point on where demand is. What is removed is asphaltenes, which drastically increase the amount of dilutent needed and pipeline volume, seperate and sink in a spill, and greatly restrict the quantities refineries can accept. We can sell the asphaltenes by rail as well, either for Asphalt, or if there is demand (which I don't believe exists) to add to crude at refineries.
3) to the extent industry wants raw, pure Bitumen, we can ship by rail several 100k bbl/d safely and with minimal cost increase. That can be blended into DilBit or at refineries. Bitumen alone cannot be moved by pipeline regardless.
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2) Does industry want partially upgraded crude? I think the answer here is a yes. Partial upgrading increases, not decreases, the amount of bitumen per barrel, as to your point on where demand is. What is removed is asphaltenes, which drastically increase the amount of dilutent needed and pipeline volume, seperate and sink in a spill, and greatly restrict the quantities refineries can accept. We can sell the asphaltenes by rail as well, either for Asphalt, or if there is demand (which I don't believe exists) to add to crude at refineries.
3) to the extent industry wants raw, pure Bitumen, we can ship by rail several 100k bbl/d safely and with minimal cost increase. That can be blended into DilBit or at refineries. Bitumen alone cannot be moved by pipeline regardless.
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@ryuuguu01 ya but I am also not talking about North American cars. The Bajaj Quite is from India and under 3.5k. Suzuki and Tata also have very low price models aimed at the third world.
Ultimately I agree, particularly with Sodium Ions that avoid resource scarcity issues, EVs will become the least expensive. But I would not understate OPECs ability to dump gasoline cheaply on the market. If we are still using Jet fuel, that's only 10% of a barrel of oil, and the 40% that is gasoline sized hydrocarbons have to go somewhere.
OPEC ruined nuclear in the 1980s this way. I do think it will be successful at slowing the market growth of EVs in the developing world.
Africa as a continent has a billion people and not even twice Canada's electrical capacity. China exported almost as much solar capacity last year, and if targeted, China can absolutely rapidly increase that capacity, but I don't know if EV charging is the highest priority usage for national governments when they can still import cheap gasoline.
But again, in areas farther inland, I would say local solar panels and EVs will be more competitive than coast cities.
I'm not trying to argue oil is going to beat EVs. But I think it would be fooling to ignore the impact of halving the oil price, particularly in regions of the world where electrical capacity is almost non-existent, to slow EV adoption and keep used ICE vehicles on the road for much longer.
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@ryuuguu01 ya but I am also not talking about North American cars. The Bajaj Quite is from India and under 3.5k. Suzuki and Tata also have very low price models aimed at the third world.
Ultimately I agree, particularly with Sodium Ions that avoid resource scarcity issues, EVs will become the least expensive. But I would not understate OPECs ability to dump gasoline cheaply on the market. If we are still using Jet fuel, that's only 10% of a barrel of oil, and the 40% that is gasoline sized hydrocarbons have to go somewhere.
OPEC ruined nuclear in the 1980s this way. I do think it will be successful at slowing the market growth of EVs in the developing world.
Africa as a continent has a billion people and not even twice Canada's electrical capacity. China exported almost as much solar capacity last year, and if targeted, China can absolutely rapidly increase that capacity, but I don't know if EV charging is the highest priority usage for national governments when they can still import cheap gasoline.
But again, in areas farther inland, I would say local solar panels and EVs will be more competitive than coast cities.
I'm not trying to argue oil is going to beat EVs. But I think it would be fooling to ignore the impact of halving the oil price, particularly in regions of the world where electrical capacity is almost non-existent, to slow EV adoption and keep used ICE vehicles on the road for much longer.
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@Inez-z2z Alberta has seen enormous growth of its chemical industry over the last 10 years. But Chemical inputs are all NGLs and other light fractions from fracking. It's almost entirely Seperate for the oil sands..
There has been development to Carbon Fiber, but it will be decades before we produce as much Carbon Fiber as we do Bitumen today.
But, along with a Pipeline, I would like to see Refineries, and in particular refineries modeled on Sturgeon falls, on the coast maximizing diesel exports. EVs are displacing gasoline, but that's a fixed fraction of a barrel of oil, and so while gasoline prices fall diesel will go up, and gasoline will flood the market cheaply.
If we can build pipelines to and refineries at the coast, we can push down diesel and jet fuel prices, and keep gasoline prices higher; A million barrels a day of Bitumen-to-diesel would mean taking 2 million barrels of gasoline of the market to produce the same amount of diesel.
I'd also like to see more upgraders in Alberta in relation to an easy coast pipeline.
Consider we can make multiple investments at once, also. And that there is elements of strategic necessity. Literally tomorrow Agent Orange could cut off half of Ontario's Oil by shutting down line 5 and leave it entirely dependent on US imports.
I feel like people pay platitudes to Alberta should do more refining, but there really is no market, and they have a population to resource ratio that says they can get a lot more resources out of the ground than they can add value to.
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I believe we should be building a Northern Gateway and TransCanada pipeline. However, I agree entirely here, LNG has very limited economic potential. We are a very stable democracy, so there is a bit of a premium, and if Europe or Japan want to build a pipeline or lock in long-term contracts, that's awesome.
But if you understand the industry, all the growth has been out of the US and Qatar. The US produce all LNG export, functionally, out of the Permian Basin, a few hundred km from Tidewater, over flat land with rather benign weather. Qatar sticks a straw in the ocean and has ships sail up. Canada has to build 1000km over a mountain range or 4000 km east, with extreme weather variations. We will never be a low enough cost producer.
LNG isn't oil, there is no cartel keeping the price high. 2022 got a lot of attention, but within months LNG markets were back at the historic lows they entered the 2020s with. It just isn't a high profit activity, it's more like a normal commodity.
Again, if people want to build a pipeline, it's no skin off my back. There will be demand for the next hundred years for LNG, even it it's all chemical input. But I can't imagine Canada being competitive.
The only real exception is Quebec could develop its shale. I think that's unlikely.
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Data centers are an excellent opportunity for us, I am glad you've started drawing attention to them. They have many advantages, our cheap hydro formost, but also our cool temperatures allowing winters to be almost free of cost (as most energy use is cooling the center) - more so if built with geothermal heating/cooling systems. They also allow anchor loads in remote areas where generatong potential is high, but market is distant.
I think Labrador in particular should be called out here, as a perfect storm, since the Transatlantic fiber-optic cables run off Newfoundland. But Northern BC is great as well, and even Manitoba and Quebec have strong competitive advantages.
I would add that if our policy is enormous expansion of data centers, and I think it should be, we can get something for that. Turning to the East Asian Economies, i think its very plausible for us to say "we'll buy $3 billion in servers a year from your country, if you provide an Investment of X in Canada. That might be Chip FABs, it might be a pipeline, whatever it is, we can leverage these large scale purposes, that are beneficial for us, to draw investment from those who want to make the sale.
Policy wise, I figure we can either given the Telecom companies a boat load of cheap debt, and hope we bring phone prices down by making it a side business to data processing, or get the Provincial Hydro utilities to do it as a way to develop electrical exports, or both, both is good.
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@tecumsehneo2174 Well, I guess, first of all, I don't. I mean, do I learn from YouTube? Sure. But not Geo politics or economics.
So why do I care? That's a genuinely interesting question. I suppose it's because I know Vietnam to be an exceptionally well run country. I mean, it's not Western Europe, but given the massive war in the last 50 years, and the state of the government/society prior to that, the success in advancing the nation is rare, to say the least.
At the same time (being North American) the extent to which a free market is indoctrinated as the only reasonable course is unsettling at times. I mean, I fully support using a market economy and allowing free enterprise, but I also hate paying taxes. So, examples of countries that are able to demonstrate high GDP growth, with government corperations displacing a portion of tax revenue AND Land value collection displacing another portion is very interesting. I would like the general public to know more about such a system. And to see that competently operated government intervention can push forward that growth. Because the upcoming signs of a recession scare me, and I am well aware the solution to "supply chain shortages" is investing in more supply, not hiking interest rates.
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@noIDwhatsoever The only ideas he has put up are Carbon Fiber, and briefly for like 3 episodes, optimizing Transmountain. He uses a project built over Covid as a reasonable cost estimate for a pipeline built today, plausibily going into a recession. He ignores that at best in 10 years carbon fibre will use 100k/bill a day, 2% of current output.
He ignores the level of discontent in Alberta and the need maintain a pro Canadian sentiment, particularly as we are threatened from the south. He ignores that we can do bitumen-diesel, and that while EVs are pushing out gasoline demand, diesel prices are actually rising, meaning we would be pushing out barrels of oil and barrels of gasoline from the market by keeping high RPP prices lower. He ignores that if we go into a trade war, WCS will have an enormous discount, and the pipeline will suddenly be profitable. Or how that hedges our currency risk if we had a massive drop in export values around oil.
I could go on..
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@jasonwilliams8016 tbf, I've made the point many times, so I'm sure I've said others you agree with; I do try to correct seemingly rational people with inaccurate reasons of support for fossil fuel projects as much as the reverse. And I agree with many things Markham says, I just don't make a point of commenting agreement to points already made well.
But if I make points you don't agree with, feel free to challenge or ask me to clarify. I don't care about Oil per se; the only development I support is SAGD. I just believe the oilsands are To Big To Fail, I see absolutely no advantage to anyone in us letting them fail, and doing so will cause an enormous depression. I believe we have no choice but to recapitalize and regulate them as we did the banks in 2007, but unlike the financial crash, we have an opportunity to do that before the Bankruptcies are imminent. And if we take that opportunity we can save an enormous amount in the long run and avoid things I really don't want to see, like public ownership of tailings ponds after SynCrude goes under, while getting far more out of that spending. And corresponding I feel Markham is missing that opportunity, either intentionally or by mistake.
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@jasonwilliams8016 tbf, I've made the point many times, so I'm sure I've said others you agree with but haven't seen; I do try to correct seemingly rational people with inaccurate reasons of support for fossil fuel projects as much as the reverse. And I agree with many things Markham says, I just don't make a point of commenting agreement to points already made well.
But if I make points you don't agree with, feel free to challenge or ask me to clarify. I don't care about Oil per se; the only development I support is SAGD. I just believe the oilsands are To Big To Fail, I see absolutely no advantage to anyone in us letting them fail, and doing so will cause an enormous depression. I believe we have no choice but to recapitalize and regulate them as we did the banks in 2007, but unlike the financial crash, we have an opportunity to do that before the Bankruptcies are imminent. And if we take that opportunity we can save an enormous amount in the long run and avoid things I really don't want to see, like public ownership of tailings ponds after SynCrude goes under, while getting far more out of that spending. And corresponding I feel Markham is missing that opportunity, either intentionally or by mistake.
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@jasonwilliams8016 tbf, I've made the point many times, so I'm sure I've said others you agree with but haven't seen; I do try to correct seemingly rational people with inaccurate reasons of support for fossil fuel projects as much as the reverse. And I agree with many things Markham says, I just don't make a point of commenting agreement to points already made well.
But if I make points you don't agree with, feel free to challenge or ask me to clarify. I don't care about Oil per se; the only development I support is SAGD. I just believe the oilsands are To Big To Fail, I see absolutely no advantage to anyone in us letting them fail, and doing so will cause an enormous depression. I believe we have no choice but to recapitalize and regulate them as we did the banks in 2007, but unlike the financial crash, we have an opportunity to do that before the Bankruptcies are imminent. And if we take that opportunity we can save an enormous amount in the long run and avoid things I really don't want to see, like public ownership of tailings ponds after SynCrude goes under, while getting far more out of that spending. And corresponding I feel Markham is missing that opportunity, either intentionally or by mistake
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@jasonwilliams8016 tbf, I've made the point many times, so I'm sure I've said others you agree with but haven't seen; I do try to correct seemingly rational people with inaccurate reasons of support for fossil fuel projects as much as the reverse. And I agree with many things Markham says, I just don't make a point of commenting agreement to points already made well.
But if I make points you don't agree with, feel free to challenge or ask me to clarify. I don't care about Oil per se; the only development I support is SAGD. I just believe the oilsands are To Big To Fail, I see absolutely no advantage to anyone in us letting them fail, and doing so will cause an enormous depression. I believe we have no choice but to recapitalize and regulate them as we did the banks in 2007, but unlike the financial crash, we have an opportunity to do that before the Bankruptcies are imminent. And if we take that opportunity we can save an enormous amount in the long run and avoid things I really don't want to see, like public ownership of tailings ponds after SynCrude goes under, while getting far more out of that spending. And corresponding I feel Markham is missing that opportunity, either intentionally or by mistake..
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@jasonwilliams8016 tbf, I've made the point many times, so I'm sure I've said others you agree with but haven't seen; I do try to correct seemingly rational people with inaccurate reasons of support for fossil fuel projects as much as the reverse. And I agree with many things Markham says, I just don't make a point of commenting agreement to points already made well.
But if I make points you don't agree with, feel free to challenge or ask me to clarify. I don't care about Oil per se; the only development I support is SAGD. I just believe the oilsands are To Big To Fail, I see absolutely no advantage to anyone in us letting them fail, and doing so will cause an enormous depression. I believe we have no choice but to recapitalize and regulate them as we did the banks in 2007, but unlike the financial crash, we have an opportunity to do that before the Bankruptcies are imminent. And if we take that opportunity we can save an enormous amount in the long run and avoid things I really don't want to see, like public ownership of tailings ponds after SynCrude goes under, while getting far more out of that spending. And corresponding I feel Markham is missing that opportunity, either intentionally or by mistake.
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@hmhmoinsdk About NZ I agree, it's certainly a minor point there, but with significant American Pressure and the fact NZ realizes on a safe maritime regime largely policed by the US, and the normalization presented by the other Anglo Pacific countries being included in an entirely defensive alliance, I think it's possible.
I also agree about India. The point there was there are several countries in the region which could offer a nuclear umbrella. And of course, the India of the last century is not today's, which clearly attempting to be a global power. Add to that the Indian concerns with China and that a defensive alliance might help them ensure no incursions, and that some Indian Client states could be brought in along side, again I think it's possible.
I disagree with the point on Taiwan. The US is legally required to support already. Certainly you couldn't have a NATO type requirement on no border disputes, but that wouldn't have worked for a Korea that considers itself the only legitimate government on the Peninsula or a Japan that claims half an apparently Russian island.
I agree with your point on SK, but I think American support is far more important, and if the US says they will withdraw it if SK refuses to support wider US strategy in the region, and with the benefit of clear Japanese support against any NK action, I think it would go through.
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Okay but its important to focus on the fact tariffs are going to reduce the price of oil and likely have very little impact on refineries. Particularly if they are applied to Canada and not other nations.
Oil production is almost entirely fixed. Oilsands Insitu operations, particularly SAGD, can't cut production without permanently deforming the reservoir.
And demand for shale fracking will remain, for dilutent from SAGD operations, NG for LNG and Steam injection into the SAG, and NGLs to Albertas chemical industry.
And Conventional production has almost no marginal cost, but with long term price decline expectations, new drilling will come to an end, which is the core of investment and employment in the industry.
The only area that can, and will, quickly shut down are the Mining operations, which are focused on Fort McMurray and the focus of Fort McMurray. This is what we saw in Covid, an 80% shit down of mining for the brief period OPEC pushed down prices (ostensibly to fight Russia, although Russia had been calling for a global price war for a decade). The Mining operations are the majority of oil sands employenent, and even then focused on several of the highest cost projects.
The Upgraders at the mining operations produce Canada Sweet and Light, and synthetic blend, which is more comparable to American light crude than our heavy sour. However, for the same reason this means it is much more easily displaced by American shale oil. It is also expensive to produce at around $60 a barrel, before transportion. WTI has been trading in the high $50s this week.
The unfortunate reality is that the only facilities that can actually reduce production in response to a higher price are the facility that represent the majority of direct Oilsands employment, and cut conventional drilling the core of that areas employment.
Its also import to note that declining prices directly impact Alberta oil royalties, Royalties are cut below $55 /bbl. This was a third of Albertas revenue last year, and in Covid the government struggled to raise debt.
All that is to say energy tariffs would be very bad for Alberta, and to a lesser extent Saskatchewan.
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@WinterXR7 @winterinvicta @winterinvicta I agree that the political situation isn't likely to lead to a coup or force Putin out of the war, but it may lead to peace settlements with more reasonable terms from Ukrainian perspectives. A lot has occured there, while a small fraction of Russian land, until this point the only thing keeping Ukraine out was the prestige of Russia, that is a loss people feel, particularly with a hundred thousand refugees spreading word in the country. Conscripts are in the conflict and taken as POWs in camps Russia paints as Nazi adjacent, until now the core areas of Russia haven't been dealing with the actual conflict, now its visible. Inflation has been very high for some time, now Kursk farmers can't collect thier wheat harvest, and gasoline supplies are constantly at target, which are quite significant costs the lower income. All that is to say that until recently, what has been a foreign conflict in Russia has become a domestic one, which politically is very different.
to the second point, the particular units in question are drone operaters I believe, so it doesn't suprise me they are less effective in urban combat. But they will slow the advance to the city, and protect the flanks while other infantry units perform the urban combat. The dightiin Bakhmut obviously was extensive.
To the economy, as you point out the ruble is weak, but more over the Ukrainian campaign against oil infrastructure only started 6 months ago. Kursk wheat won't be available, but not only that, diesel is going to be a in competition between farmers and the military in a few weeks. Europe has only recently banned un insured ships from their waters, which is meant to push out black fleet ships from the Baltic sea, a major oil shipment terminal. Inflation has been rising, and is being pressed by both a shorage of goods, and army contracts bidding out the labour supply, an issue only worsening. And Russian foreign currency reserves are almost entirely depleted, with the oil fund now mainly holding infrastructure bonds. The Russian financial position has continually worsen, amd while I'm not suggesting an immediate collapse, I would say stalling several months due to mud is harder on Russia than Ukraine. Also, maybe you mean to claim the GDP PPP growth has been higher in Russia than Germany (which is, frankly, a terribly afflicted economy having taken the brunt of anti Russian economic fall out), but I struggle to believe numbers showing a higher standard of living in Russia than Germany. And I would point out that growth in Russian GDP is driven by defense sector spending, which is dubious in its value should the war come to an end.
To your last point, I'd suggest the very thing Ukraine wants is a counter attack in Kursk. Images of Russia flattening Russian towns with Artillery and hundreds of conscripts out of Moscow and Saint Petersburg dying or being maimed daily, or else a weakening of Russian forces elsewhere, are both wins for Ukraine.
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@charliedoyle7824 Batteries are the only area I agree at all with competing against China; and even then it's iffy because we don't know the relevant chemistries. But if we actually pushed and don't spend the next 20 years doing environmental reviews and consultations, we may be able to enter this market using a fully domestic supply chain as the advantage. But there is no benefit to importing batteries from China.
I fully disagree with the rest. Obviously things like Geothermal or compressed air storage will be assembled locally; but that doesn't mean we can't produce the equipment or that Canadian companies can do the assembly. We have clear advantages in these sectors, the only Geothermal project in Germany is a Canadian company. I think it's clear the issue is our lack of encouragement, not international willingness to use.
SMRs in particular I think we have an opportunity to dominate the market. They only work when you have a large scale market, and that is the Oil sands and Sask coal plants. We can leverage that market to have economies of scale that outcompete. We also have industry experience and fuel.
But at the end of the day, if you are right and the result is that every country can easily produce its own generation equipment for nearly free energy, which I think for tidal would be the outcome, that's a win imo. Best case we dominate the market, worse case we destroy Chinas market dominance. I'll take those odds lol.
I also think you are over emphasizing Batteries. Eventually EVs will rely on capacitors, and there is no reason to believe grid storage will remain with batteries; certainly it won't be lithium ion. But in any event, an SMR and Battery grid would be far better than a solar Battery one because you have very consistent daily charge-recharge cycles. Solar requires multiple durations of backup, which creates the very technologies that will displace batteries.
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@charliedoyle7824 Batteries are the only area I agree at all with competing against China; and even then it's iffy because we don't know the relevant chemistries. But if we actually pushed and don't spend the next 20 years doing environmental reviews and consultations, we may be able to enter this market using a fully domestic supply chain as the advantage. But there is no benefit to importing batteries from China.
I fully disagree with the rest. Obviously things like Geothermal or compressed air storage will be assembled locally; but that doesn't mean we can't produce the equipment or that Canadian companies can do the assembly. We have clear advantages in these sectors, the only Geothermal project in Germany is a Canadian company. I think it's clear the issue is our lack of encouragement, not international willingness to use.
SMRs in particular I think we have an opportunity to dominate the market. They only work when you have a large scale market, and that is the Oil sands and Sask coal plants. We can leverage that market to have economies of scale that outcompete. We also have industry experience and fuel.
But at the end of the day, if you are right and the result is that every country can easily produce its own generation equipment for nearly free energy, which I think for tidal would be the outcome, that's a win imo. Best case we dominate the market, worse case we destroy Chinas market dominance. I'll take those odds lol.
I also think you are over emphasizing Batteries. Eventually EVs will rely on capacitors, and there is no reason to believe grid storage will remain with batteries; certainly it won't be lithium ion. But in any event, an SMR and Battery grid would be far better than a solar Battery one because you have very consistent daily charge-recharge cycles. Solar requires multiple durations of backup, which creates the very technologies that will displace batteries.
.
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@charliedoyle7824 .Batteries are the only area I agree at all with competing against China; and even then it's iffy because we don't know the relevant chemistries. But if we actually pushed and don't spend the next 20 years doing environmental reviews and consultations, we may be able to enter this market using a fully domestic supply chain as the advantage. But there is no benefit to importing batteries from China.
I fully disagree with the rest. Obviously things like Geothermal or compressed air storage will be assembled locally; but that doesn't mean we can't produce the equipment or that Canadian companies can do the assembly. We have clear advantages in these sectors, the only Geothermal project in Germany is a Canadian company. I think it's clear the issue is our lack of encouragement, not international willingness to use.
SMRs in particular I think we have an opportunity to dominate the market. They only work when you have a large scale market, and that is the Oil sands and Sask coal plants. We can leverage that market to have economies of scale that outcompete. We also have industry experience and fuel.
But at the end of the day, if you are right and the result is that every country can easily produce its own generation equipment for nearly free energy, which I think for tidal would be the outcome, that's a win imo. Best case we dominate the market, worse case we destroy Chinas market dominance. I'll take those odds lol.
I also think you are over emphasizing Batteries. Eventually EVs will rely on capacitors, and there is no reason to believe grid storage will remain with batteries; certainly it won't be lithium ion. But in any event, an SMR and Battery grid would be far better than a solar Battery one because you have very consistent daily charge-recharge cycles. Solar requires multiple durations of backup, which creates the very technologies that will displace batteries.
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@charliedoyle7824 Batteries are the only area I agree at all with competing against China; and even then it's iffy because we don't know the relevant chemistries. But if we actually pushed and don't spend the next 20 years doing environmental reviews and consultations, we may be able to enter this market using a fully domestic supply chain as the advantage. But there is no benefit to importing batteries from China.
I fully disagree with the rest. Obviously things like Geothermal or compressed air storage will be assembled locally; but that doesn't mean we can't produce the equipment or that Canadian companies can do the assembly. We have clear advantages in these sectors, the only Geothermal project in Germany is a Canadian company. I think it's clear the issue is our lack of encouragement, not international willingness to use.
SMRs in particular I think we have an opportunity to dominate the market. They only work when you have a large scale market, and that is the Oil sands and Sask coal plants. We can leverage that market to have economies of scale that outcompete. We also have industry experience and fuel.
But at the end of the day, if you are right and the result is that every country can easily produce its own generation equipment for nearly free energy, which I think for tidal would be the outcome, that's a win imo. Best case we dominate the market, worse case we destroy Chinas market dominance. I'll take those odds lol.
I also think you are over emphasizing Batteries. Eventually EVs will rely on capacitors, and there is no reason to believe grid storage will remain with batteries; certainly it won't be lithium ion. But in any event, an SMR and Battery grid would be far better than a solar Battery one because you have very consistent daily charge-recharge cycles. Solar requires multiple durations of backup, which creates the very technologies that will displace batteries..
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@charliedoyle7824 Batteries are the only area I agree at all with competing against China; and even then it's iffy because we don't know the relevant chemistries. But if we actually pushed and don't spend the next 20 years doing environmental reviews and consultations, we may be able to enter this market using a fully domestic supply chain as the advantage. But there is no benefit to importing batteries from China.
I fully disagree with the rest. Obviously things like Geothermal or compressed air storage will be assembled locally; but that doesn't mean we can't produce the equipment or that Canadian companies can do the assembly. We have clear advantages in these sectors, the only Geothermal project in Germany is a Canadian company. I think it's clear the issue is our lack of encouragement, not international willingness to use.
SMRs in particular I think we have an opportunity to dominate the market. They only work when you have a large scale market, and that is the Oil sands and Sask coal plants. We can leverage that market to have economies of scale that outcompete. We also have industry experience and fuel.
But at the end of the day, if you are right and the result is that every country can easily produce its own generation equipment for nearly free energy, which I think for tidal would be the outcome, that's a win imo. Best case we dominate the market, worse case we destroy Chinas market dominance. I'll take those odds lol.
I also think you are over emphasizing Batteries. Eventually EVs will rely on capacitors, and there is no reason to believe grid storage will remain with batteries; certainly it won't be lithium ion. But in any event, an SMR and Battery grid would be far better than a solar Battery one because you have very consistent daily charge-recharge cycles. Solar requires multiple durations of backup, which creates the very technologies that will displace batteries.
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@sc1338 well, about which part? Because
Permian oil is getting lighter. It's starting to lower the value of Brent. As rigs move into less valuable locations in the play, the shale gets tighter, and so the oil gets lighter. And as part of that, the ratio of Natural Gas to oil increases, and wells get less productive.
Bakken and Eagle Ford, the second and third largest shake plays and operating before the Permian, are both well below their peak production, although both are very productive gas fields. One of the issues is simply that as wells get gassier, you start having difficulty finding take away for it, and you can flair but your basically burning half your product. And the Bakken is really only holding production something close to stable by using wells drilled before (DUCs) Covid that weren't brought into production.
The Shale oil industry didn't make a dollar before 2022. Rigs today are down, even in the Permian (although not as bad as Nationally), new drilling is down, DUCs are down, in 2020 there were over 3000 DUCs in the Permian, by 2023 that was down to 1000, which is still decreasing but slower.
I'm not saying the Permian will stop producing oil. It has the advantage of being near the coast and a tonne of infrastructure. Technology is improving, and new wells in the Permian are actual more productive today than in the past, but productivity per lateral foot drilled is declining, which shows the actual resource is depleting. But ultimately Fracking is an amazing technology to produce cheap natural gas - particularly if we can find a way to not use Diesel to run the pumps. Oil is a side product for a limited number of years after the play goes into production.
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I think this conversation was excellent, but I do think a few points were missed that changes some conclusions;
For one, I agree we are currently under investmenting in renewables. But it is not as though we are already seeing new investment in a pipeline. I am very confident Caney intends to drive enormous investment into renewables and AI, it is the core of his argument for the future in Value(s) . And I think the political trade is infact greater access for BC to buy and sell on Alberta's grid, and replace/expand the California market it trades with and get more access to low cost wind and drive largescale investment in Alberta renewables, and drive data center investment to explort low cost electricity and geothermal.
And I disagree about Nuclear. It is more than just the current electrical cost, its an advanced and important technology who's cost can be driven down aggressively. I agree the occasional electrical plant SMR is a poor development strategy
TLDR, reasons SMRs are well suited to oilsands; aside for some experimental designs to build regulatory and technical capacity). Ultimately I think deployment in the oilsands is the best way to due to the clear advantages (replacing NG and eliminating it from the marginal cost, direct provision of high tempature heat instead of losing energy in conversion, mass quantities for SAGD for commercialization, single technological usage spread out across just 4 companies operating hazardous industrial equipment creates an easy regulatory space, multiple large scale branch off industries (upgraders, refineries, oil sands mines (and from there Mines)) that share the same major operators, allows nuclear output to be directed towards exports, a new energy market for oilsands operators to sell into as part of the transition from oil.
Ps, I'm not trying to name drop that I read Values all the time, I'm just trying to give people an idea of what it actually talks about and hopefully get people to read it.
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@karmo0o178 there is an ammonia cell that's been demonstrated and is being commercialized in Denmark that has as low an energy as a state of the art Methane to ammonia plant, no Carbon Capture included. It uses more electrical energy, whereas the methane plant uses mainly thermal, and that's arguably less expensive, although peak solar or wind energy prices change that. Now, are likely producing in a Gulf state, for cheapest possible solar energy, so you're competing against very inexpensive NG.
Imo it (or something very like it) is going to be one of the top 10 most important technologies of the next 30 years. It would even work alongside something like fusion. One of my biggest questions on the future is what we'll do with all the extra available oxygen.
If you're interested, it works by using a solid oxide electrolysis cell to seperate the Oxygen from a mix of steam and air. Oxygen from the air moves across the Membrane, and water breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen, which also crosses the membrane. The mix of hot Hydrogen and the nitrogen still in the air can then directly be converted to ammonia, switch saves money on not requiring an Air seperation unit to remove the oxygen from the air and having to produce green hydrogen seperately to then react converting the operation to a single stage. Look up Haldor Topsoe if interested.
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@mignik01 I don't understand why YouTube clears comments so cavalierly, but I hate to think it's probably because two people talking drives less engagement than 50 people each yelling at 50 people. But always copy anything longer than a sentence now.
I think 2 things are important to consider on demand drop. Firstly, I'd say that in urban, developed areas including most of North America, Europe, Asia, and India, we'll see EVs quickly dominate. * See more below.
This will lower global oil gasoline demand in particular. Secondly, a barrel of oil is a mix of different sized hydrocarbons, about half of those are in the size range we use for gasoline.
All of which means for a refinery to survive, it will be selling very cheap gas, and have to make all its revenue on naphtha feedstock and propane sales, and heavier molecule diesel and jet fuel and lubricants, which means the prices will have to increase. There is some extent to which we can change the ratio, either seperating more out of the gas or cracking it if the demand for petrofeed stock exists. But rebuilding refineries is quite rare in modern day. The point being actual oil demand can't lower significantly if diesel doesn't alongside gasoline, and diesel prices will increase and push away demand. **
On the otherhand, I expect by 2027 declining long-term Chinese demand will trigger an OPEC price war to kill fracking and Canadian oil sands mining (not the SAGD, the strip mines), and likely succeed, probably dumping a lot of cheap gasoline in Africa, particularly the east coast. Or else I expect OPEC to collapses with enormous oversupply the result anyway. Particularly since I think the Ukraine war will have to end by 2026 and Russian oil will return to Europe. So low oil prices might keep diesel and other Petro products cheap at the expense of import dependency for north america.
But we know large cut to gasoline demand will occur, and this will ultimately require other uses to decline as well or else dump cheap gasoline somewhere.
*China in particular already has half of new vehicle sales as EVs. China represents something like 40% of oil imports? And at the same time has a protected market providing 40% of their oil today. Chinese demand dropping in half over the next few years would be 10 million barrels a day gone alone. While South Korea and Japan might issue tariffs in Asia, I can't see south Korea EVs not growling rapidly. I can't see Indonesia not striking a trade deal to access cheap EVs for cities (while pushing on its horrible Palm Oil biodiesel plan). Europe (EU) is obviously pushing EVs, although only 20% of vehicles are EVs (because they did a terrible job with industrial policy and Germany will collapse if it can't sell cars), but still one of the largest importers cutting demand, and I can't imagine in the next few years Russian oil doesn't return.
**There is a bitumen to diesel only plant in Alberta; that works because all the bitumen is larger than diesel and is broken down, shale oils greatest issue is it has so little diesel, shale oil is why diesel prices are no longer cheaper than gasoline and propane is dirt cheap. And I've seen several refineries being turned into biodeisel (which I hate), but that does mean more supply for diesel, although is also a substitute.
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@mignik01 I don't understand why YouTube clears comments so cavalierly, but I hate to think it's probably because two people talking drives less engagement than 50 people each yelling at 50 people. But always copy anything longer than a sentence now.
I think 2 things are important to consider on demand drop. Firstly, I'd say that in urban, developed areas including most of North America, Europe, Asia, and India, we'll see EVs quickly dominate. * See more below.
This will lower global oil gasoline demand in particular. Secondly, a barrel of oil is a mix of different sized hydrocarbons, about half of those are in the size range we use for gasoline.
All of which means for a refinery to survive, it will be selling very cheap gas, and have to make all its revenue on naphtha feedstock and propane sales, and heavier molecule diesel and jet fuel and lubricants, which means the prices will have to increase. There is some extent to which we can change the ratio, either seperating more out of the gas or cracking it if the demand for petrofeed stock exists. But rebuilding refineries is quite rare in modern day. The point being actual oil demand can't lower significantly if diesel doesn't alongside gasoline, and diesel prices will increase and push away demand. **
On the otherhand, I expect by 2027 declining long-term Chinese demand will trigger an OPEC price war to kill fracking and Canadian oil sands mining (not the SAGD, the strip mines), and likely succeed, probably dumping a lot of cheap gasoline in Africa, particularly the east coast. Or else I expect OPEC to collapses with enormous oversupply the result anyway. Particularly since I think the Ukraine war will have to end by 2026 and Russian oil will return to Europe. So low oil prices might keep diesel and other Petro products cheap at the expense of import dependency for north america.
But we know large cut to gasoline demand will occur, and this will ultimately require other uses to decline as well or else dump cheap gasoline somewhere.
*China in particular already has half of new vehicle sales as EVs. China represents something like 40% of oil imports? And at the same time has a protected market providing 40% of their oil today. Chinese demand dropping in half over the next few years would be 10 million barrels a day gone alone. While South Korea and Japan might issue tariffs in Asia, I can't see south Korea EVs not growling rapidly. I can't see Indonesia not striking a trade deal to access cheap EVs for cities (while pushing on its horrible Palm Oil biodiesel plan). Europe (EU) is obviously pushing EVs, although only 20% of vehicles are EVs (because they did a terrible job with industrial policy and Germany will collapse if it can't sell cars), but still one of the largest importers cutting demand, and I can't imagine in the next few years Russian oil doesn't return.
**There is a bitumen to diesel only plant in Alberta; that works because all the bitumen is larger than diesel and is broken down, shale oils greatest issue is it has so little diesel, shale oil is why diesel prices are no longer cheaper than gasoline and propane is dirt cheap. And I've seen several refineries being turned into biodeisel (which I hate), but that does mean more supply for diesel, although is also a substitute.
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@mignik01 I think if you're in suburban neighborhoods in California or the Midwest, or even the east coast with some improvement, roof top solar will make sense, and even in cities commercial roof top will provide a considerable amount of power with little to know distance. And Utilities solar is also less expensive nuclear. Again, parts of Europe and New York, megacities in Asia, nuclear is a strong fit. But India, China, the middle east, most of Africa, California to Houston to Chicago, are all going to be cheaper today with solar than using nuclear without a breakthrough in SMRs. I'd say a majority of the world's population and America's population live in regions where cloud cover is easily predictable and very low for seasonal periods.
The issue is it's hard to scale up nuclear for 1MW of power. It's very rare the grid needs GWs of power suddenly turned on. Solar is cheap to keep adding incrementally everywhere, Nuclear is cheap to build one really big one, but quickly gets to a point where it's pushing down prices.
But again it's kinda moot. I would have been perfectly happy if we did huge amounts of nuclear. But we didn't, and no one is really building it, and solar is still decreasing in cost which means it's suitable in less ideal locations.
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@mignik01 I think 2 things are important to consider on demand drop. Firstly, I'd say that in urban, developed areas including most of North America, Europe, Asia, and India, we'll see EVs quickly dominate. * See more below.
This will lower global oil gasoline demand in particular. Secondly, a barrel of oil is a mix of different sized hydrocarbons, about half of those are in the size range we use for gasoline.
All of which means for a refinery to survive, it will be selling very cheap gas, and have to make all its revenue on naphtha feedstock and propane sales, and heavier molecule diesel and jet fuel and lubricants, which means the prices will have to increase. There is some extent to which we can change the ratio, either seperating more out of the gas or cracking it if the demand for petrofeed stock exists. But rebuilding refineries is quite rare in modern day. The point being actual oil demand can't lower significantly if diesel doesn't alongside gasoline, and diesel prices will increase and push away demand. **
On the otherhand, I expect by 2027 declining long-term Chinese demand will trigger an OPEC price war to kill fracking and Canadian oil sands mining (not the SAGD, the strip mines), and likely succeed, probably dumping a lot of cheap gasoline in Africa, particularly the east coast. Or else I expect OPEC to collapses with enormous oversupply the result anyway. Particularly since I think the Ukraine war will have to end by 2026 and Russian oil will return to Europe. So low oil prices might keep diesel and other Petro products cheap at the expense of import dependency for north america.
But we know large cut to gasoline demand will occur, and this will ultimately require other uses to decline as well or else dump cheap gasoline somewhere.
*China in particular already has half of new vehicle sales as EVs. China represents something like 40% of oil imports? And at the same time has a protected market providing 40% of their oil today. Chinese demand dropping in half over the next few years would be 10 million barrels a day gone alone. While South Korea and Japan might issue tariffs in Asia, I can't see south Korea EVs not growling rapidly. I can't see Indonesia not striking a trade deal to access cheap EVs for cities (while pushing on its horrible Palm Oil biodiesel plan). Europe (EU) is obviously pushing EVs, although only 20% of vehicles are EVs (because they did a terrible job with industrial policy and Germany will collapse if it can't sell cars), but still one of the largest importers cutting demand, and I can't imagine in the next few years Russian oil doesn't return.
**There is a bitumen to diesel only plant in Alberta; that works because all the bitumen is larger than diesel and is broken down, shale oils greatest issue is it has so little diesel, shale oil is why diesel prices are no longer cheaper than gasoline and propane is dirt cheap. And I've seen several refineries being turned into biodeisel (which I hate), but that does mean more supply for diesel, although is also a substitute.
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@mignik01 the evidence repeated put forward is continuously decreasing EV and battery cost, which your saying is about to dramatically end with no evidence yourself and against investor sentiment, direct national policies by the two largest Oil importers in the world to cut consumption, with the largest already selling half of new vehicles as EVs, and a decrease in US gasoline consumption, even prior to covid, including declines in refining capacity and gas stations showing a lack of investor belief in demand.
I have been clear. I'm not suggesting the end of oil. But over the next 25 years, the vast majority of urban vehicles will move to being electric, which will create a glut of gasoline, which will create price pressures on other refined products that cause decreasing demand- excluding petrochemicals, because Gasoline can be fractured to increase supply.
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@vanhoot2234 sorry, now that I'm awake, the way NG pump stations normally work is they vent some of the NG from the pipeline into a side compartment. This side compartment also takes in air, to fuel combustion, and just like in a powerplant that combustion spins a turbine, but instead of generating electricity it pressurizes the pipeline. And it does this by spinning a wheel inside the pipeline, again usually, using a physical axel that connects through a hole in the wall between the wheel on the inside of the pipe and the turbine in the pump station.
So you have leakage along the turbine, and you have leakage where the NG is taken out of the pipe to the pump station.
An electric turbine is usually a closed system. The turbine is driven with an electric motor, and there is no axel going through the pipe. Often a magnetic mechanism may be used so the a motor spinning externally pulls a wheel increasing pressure internally without physical contact. Otherwise the motor may be internal (harder to maintain). But no NG has to be diverted to spin.
Don't quote this number but I believe something like 14% of methane leakage from NG is in pipelines mainly at pump stations. Beside the fact that you are burning NG, reducing product moved and releasing emissions, rather than powering the pump with some mix of renewables.
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@ryuuguu01 Okay well Alberta sends a $100 billion in oil south but clearly you don't think there is economic justification for a pipeline. So obviously you understand that we have to figure in the cost of infrastructure to this conversation. Connecting Thomson Manitoba, where the hydro is, to Edmonton is 1000km transmission project. Maybe this makes sense if the BC option didn't exist.
But as you point out, Manitoba has a market in the US. If it loses that Market, than Manitoba is drastically over provisioned and doesn't need excess. If it keeps that Market, it doesn't have a lot of spare capacity, and Minnesota isn't exactly primed for growth.
In 20 years, if you already have a bipole connecting to the Ring of Fire and Toronto in Ontario, and US demand has grown, and Alberta's need for dispatchable power outgrows what trade with BC could supply, then maybe. Although I would imagine by that time energy storage is good enough that if such transmission is justified it's because we are undamming our rivers, not bilateral trade.
Also, please stop claiming I am from Alberta. I am not. I am from and in Ontario. I simply do not want to see our country cut in half. I am referring to how much Alberta stands to lose in Oil revenues, how that will push their economy into deep depression, and how the US administration will leverage that toward their stated goal of annexing Canada. You are the person who started referencing Electrical generation as relevant to the discussion I started with oil.
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@ryuuguu01 Okay well Alberta sends a $100 billion in oil south but clearly you don't think there is economic justification for a pipeline. So obviously you understand that we have to figure in the cost of infrastructure to this conversation. Connecting Thomson Manitoba, where the hydro is, to Edmonton is 1000km transmission project. Maybe this makes sense if the BC option didn't exist.
But as you point out, Manitoba has a market in the US. If it loses that Market, than Manitoba is drastically over provisioned and doesn't need excess. If it keeps that Market, it doesn't have a lot of spare capacity, and Minnesota isn't exactly primed for growth.
In 20 years, if you already have a bipole connecting to the Ring of Fire and Toronto in Ontario, and US demand has grown, and Alberta's need for dispatchable power outgrows what trade with BC could supply, then maybe. Although I would imagine by that time energy storage is good enough that if such transmission is justified it's because we are undamming our rivers, not bilateral trade.
Also, please stop claiming I am from Alberta. I am not. I am from and in Ontario. I simply do not want to see our country cut in half. I am referring to how much Alberta stands to lose in Oil revenues, how that will push their economy into deep depression, and how the US administration will leverage that toward their stated goal of annexing Canada. You are the person who started referencing Electrical generation as relevant to the discussion I started with oil. I was literally calling conversation around electrical generation a red herring to a conversation about oil..
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@ryuuguu01 Okay well Alberta sends a $100 billion in oil south but clearly you don't think there is economic justification for a pipeline. So obviously you understand that we have to figure in the cost of infrastructure to this conversation. Connecting Thomson Manitoba, where the hydro is, to Edmonton is 1000km transmission project. Maybe this makes sense if the BC option didn't exist.
But as you point out, Manitoba has a market in the US. If it loses that Market, than Manitoba is drastically over provisioned and doesn't need excess. If it keeps that Market, it doesn't have a lot of spare capacity, and Minnesota isn't exactly primed for growth.
In 20 years, if you already have a bipole connecting to the Ring of Fire and Toronto in Ontario, and US demand has grown, and Alberta's need for dispatchable power outgrows what trade with BC could supply, then maybe. Although I would imagine by that time energy storage is good enough that if such transmission is justified it's because we are undamming our rivers, not bilateral trade.
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I don't think you're a China booster, but I do think we need to focus less on their success and more on how to get someone on the ice to break their ankle - they beat us with a new technology, we need to do the same, not compete in their game.
That said, I think Canada has an opportunity that is fleeting. We are probably going to lose the big three automakers to the US, that is their core demand. But, we have a strong and long relationship with the Detroit 3, and I think the proposal we should put forward is to become the hub of export model EVs. Export models from the Detroit 3, you ask? Exactly - this is something Canada and the industry both need, can fill the void of lost US market, grow the industry, and contribute to a larger EV and Battery ecosystem we need to build to keep cost down while getting around tariffs against the US for the companies looking to export..
Most of the domestic Canadian car industry builds parts, like doors and roofs, and that EVs still use and so EVs offer a pathway to maintain those supply chains.
GM produces the Bright drop EV cargo van in Ingersoll, Stellantis is planning on building the Jeep Compass EV in Brampton and the Chrysler Pacifica EV in Windsor. Honda produces the CR V.
Project Arrow also has the APMA working toward an all Canadian EV. This must be supported.
Toyota produced the EV RAV4 in Woodstock, Ford was going to produce the Explorer and Aviator in Oakville until changing plans at the start of 2025.
We need to get a Tesla Giga factory, and a BYD assembly plant as well. In general we need to establish ourselves as the hub of export oriented EV models to the Atlantic.
And most of all, we need to build the entire supply chain. This only works if the competitive advantage is full supply chain integration greatly reducing the transport cost of materials while making a more ethical product. We can't be fighting over land rights or spend 20 years studying a lithium or cobalt mine, it has to be rushed.
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@drbuckley1 to me the concern is Iran launching a large scale coordinated missile/drone attack and invasion of The Saudi east coast, the UAE, and US bases in Kuwait and Bahrain.
I think revolutionary guard forces could quite quickly destroy power station and desalination in the UAE and occupy the coastal cities, and secure control over both sides of the straight of Hormuz, which would cut off US resupply to the entire region into Syria and leave the US reliant of Air Resupply.
At the same time, Iranian military and Militias could attack oil producing regions in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and block of the few highways to the region, while thousands to 10s of thousands of missiles and drones attack US Naval ships and bases.
It would certainly lead to a very large conflict and would have immense negatives to Iran. But, it would push the US out of the middle east entirely to Israel, and commiting to such a conflict would almost certainly lead to China invading Taiwan, which I think is particularly relevant because cutting off middle Eastern oil to China is the main force threatening China. So if it's the worst case regardless and the US is pulled into a massive, trench heavy slow infantry war, alongside supporting Ukraine and threatening Venezuela and Yemen, China will take the opportunity, which means the US can't afford to engage.
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If car prices go up, fewer Americans will buy a new car. Inflation through car prices isn't going to be top of mind, it isn't rent or food or a regular expense, and the higher income individuals who buy new cars aren't going to be nearly as cash strapped. I suppose is a 25% tariff were triggered each time the car recrossed the border that would be extreme -but why would it be set up like that when even a 10% tariff would steal our manufacturering.
I don't believe Canada has a monopoly on any part. But even if we did, 25% on a part is just a part, it doesn't mean a 25% price increase for the consumer, the mechanics labour isn't going up. The point is this is far more damaging to Canadians than Americans.
The idea "Americans will just pay higher prices" is as ludicrous as saying that they will go ten years without buying a new car. They will scrap existing cars for parts, keep cars longer, and buy more American parts. Russia managed to survive about 2 years with sanctions on car parts from Europe before they starded to see increasing cat prices. A 25% tariff is far easier to navigate. There will be some short term price increase. And frankly, Trump may just slap on a subsidy to hide the impact.
the plan is to steal our industry, it most certainly will work, and it won't take 10 years. any level of trade war will likely kill and rebuild on the American side most of our manufacturing before Trump's term ends.
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@markbaker6553 To your second point, we have that pipeline. It will be another reversal of line 9 lol, but it exists, and we should do it. It is priority 1.
I'll admit it would be rather tin foil hatty to say we should worry about a blockade of the St. Lawrence. And if it's possible, we aren't very far from a pipeline blowing up. But I think it's worth considering.
More importantly though, we're talking about losing an upgrader, losing Canadian production, and increasing importers. And I think all of that is strong argument for a Canadian pipeline - particularly since the plan has always been taking an existing natural gas pipeline and converting it. At the very least, national policy of re-reversing Line 9 should include subsidizing rail shipments of Upgraded SynCrude to Montreal.
Also, I'm fine with a negative ROI for an East connection. We pay for a highway. I don't expect free infrastructure. It's like supply management, which obviously I support, buying domestic might not always be the cheapest option. And also, given the manufacturing shut downs were already seeing, even if it loses money, building the pipeline might be good.
But I agree we should be actively engaging with foreign partners. I think Japan and Korea would buy us a pipeline if we said we were going to buy $30 billion in server farms from them, which we should do, and I think Europe would pitch in if we said we were going to build East regardless, but would build more capacity if they want it.
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@markbaker6553 I would like to see an increase of In Situ SAGD production in the oil sands, potentially to around 5-6M bbl/d. I think this should be a growth industry we support because it is unique to Canada and offers advantages to oil. I think we should be moving SAGD to nuclear steam generators over the next 10 years, cutting NG demand by ~20% of our production. This would make Oil Sands production effectively emissionsless, and make the marginal cost of production almost $0 allowing us to force out OPEC.
I want to see the upgraders equipped with Nuclear heating as well, and transitioning to Green Hydrogen as the Alberta grid increases capacity. I want to see a blending requirement meant to increase upgraded Syncrude in DilBit over time to create a market for SynCrude, demand for investment into new upgraders, and push out Dilutent, until we are only selling SynBit, that is again, effectively emissionsless in production. These Upgraders will also act to grow employment in Fort McMurray and avoid a regional collapse from the eventual end of mining.
I want to see 2 Northern Gateway pipelines built consecutively, to bring 1M bbl/d to Prince Rupert, for a total of 3M bbl/d reaching the Pacific. And alongside that, I want to see a 300k bbl/d refinery, Bitumen beyond combustion uses such as asphalt and carbon fiber, and a large scale petrochemical industry including Gasoline cracking units to adsorb light fractions without a global market.
I want to see a TransCanada line capable of bringing 2M bbl/d east, providing oil security to the 1M bbl/d Eastern Canada uses, and working with Europe to find a long term market for the other 1M bbl/d in East coast exports. I think this line should only be allowed to carry SynCrude, or potentially synCrude with a low blend of Bitumen such that the mix floats.
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@markbaker6553 Beyond that, I want to see further upgraders that target an even lighter crude that can feed the Chemical industry, pushing out NGLs from shale fracking. I want to see Gasifiers turning Bitumen into Natural gas, supplying NG for LNG exports or power generation or domestic heat. Again, using SMRs for nuclear heat to power the process, creating a continuously expanding domestic market for us to develop as a global leader in SMRs, and meaning that our gasified Bitumen is lower emissions than conventional NG. The time line for this ultimately decides when shale fracking is ended
Finally, I want to see Power to Gas slowly worked into this system, which is increasingly dominated by the upgrading process, so that the NG is increasingly reducing emissions, leveraging the existing gasifier and green hydrogen infrastructure. Overtime, as NG demand is met, I want to see that transition to Power to Liquids infrastructure, feeding the chemical industry, and whatever RRP demand is maintained. Eventually, also supplying Asphaltenes for Carbon Fiber and beyond Bitumen uses.
I think this point can be reached likely in the 2060-2070 range, and fully converting our petrochemical and NG industries to electrically powered renewable industries; and allowing Alberta to export it's enormous renewable capacity as material and liquid energy products using nuclear heating and cheap green hydrogen..
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@markbaker6553 Beyond that, I want to see further upgraders that target an even lighter crude that can feed the Chemical industry, pushing out NGLs from shale fracking. I want to see Gasifiers turning Bitumen into Natural gas, supplying NG for LNG exports or power generation or domestic heat. Again, using SMRs for nuclear heat to power the process, creating a continuously expanding domestic market for us to develop as a global leader in SMRs, and meaning that our gasified Bitumen is lower emissions than conventional NG. The time line for this ultimately decides when shale fracking is ended
Finally, I want to see Power to Gas slowly worked into this system, which is increasingly dominated by the upgrading process, so that the NG is increasingly reducing emissions, leveraging the existing gasifier and green hydrogen infrastructure. Overtime, as NG demand is met, I want to see that transition to Power to Liquids infrastructure, feeding the chemical industry, and whatever RRP demand is maintained. Eventually, also supplying Asphaltenes for Carbon Fiber and beyond Bitumen uses..
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Alberta has several relatively easy steps to move toward a cheaper lower carbon grid.
Most importantly, Calgary and Edmonton, in particular, need to be connected to BC, particularly to Revelstoke (Calgary) and Site C (Edmonton). This allows access to not only BCs hydro surplus in the winter, but to Californias Solar surplus through BC, and allows Alberta to sell excess renewable capacity west and south.
Secondly, we need to invest in solar with 2-4h storage. Overnight storage is a pipedream, but if storage can provide for the few hours into the evening, existing NG plants built around peaking can be uprated into co-generation facilities with slower load following that can support seasonally low renewables and overnight periods. Wind works with transmission, solar works with storage. And people don't realize how great the solar Resources in Alberta are. The sun still shines in the winter (you may have to clear some snow, but efficiency actually goes up with low temp and you actually get stronger sunlight in the winter, although hours go down), and the biggest thing with solar is cloud cover, where Alberta has clear prairie skys.
Lastly, we need money going to Geothermal. We need to find a new market for all the drilling equipment and skilled labour. Geothermal takes care of the winter and lets you peak in in the evening.
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Sweet or sour refers to sulphur, which is one of two characteristics, but you also have API which is the density. Higher density, or heavier, oils tend to produce a higher ratio of heavier petrochemical (more diesel less gasoline). The bigger reason the east coast exports is very light Bakken crudes, whereas the refineries were built for heavier (but not "heavy") Brent oil, so running on Bakken would reduce capacity. It has less to do with Sulphur content.
Gulf oil refineries on the other hand are built for the heavy sours of South America, and Midwestern for the even heavier, and less evenly distributed in molecular weight, DilBits from Canada.
Which isn't to say you are wrong just adding some color. The other point to remember is that refineries generally have storage, and can mix several different crudes with more or less API and Sulphur, to approximate what your design crude is like.
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@dave4deputyZX firstly, I'd suggest Britain robbed Bangladesh, or Bangal at the time, far more than India, and likewise the millions of famine deaths were also chiefly in Bangal. India as in the current nation may well have been benefited economicly, although most of that to came from Bangladesh.
Secondly, I don't think you find any guilt or remorse for Persians, Arabs, Turks, the Chinese, certainly not Japan.
Third, Ireland greatly reduced exports during the potatoe famine, and the regions actually undergoing famine did not keep exporting. That's no a defense of the plantations of Ireland but this concept is greatly exaggerated.
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@johncronin6977 I agree with having industrial policy. I disagree that tariffs alone are a good economic policy. I can give counter examples, Brazil, South Africa, where all tariffs have done is prop up garbage companies and forced people to buy overly expensive junk.
If you want tariffs to protect industry, they need to be part of a comprehensive plan that ensures quality, investment, and ongoing development. And frankly, you need a lot of government control in the economy for this to work.
Also, most of your examples, the country is focusing it's Policy on some new sector of the economy where it can create a clear advantage, not trying to compete in established industries.
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@johncronin6977 I agree that national policy can create competitive advantage. However, it often comes at the expense of other areas of the economy.
And it has to be said, Japan and South Korea may have the worst demographics in the world, definitely if you exclude formerly command Soviet economies, and while they did a wonderful job creating industries, it's questionable how well that has turned out for the actual people.
Americans want manufacturing back so they can have 3 kids a dog and a white pick dense around a suburban house. I don't know if that's realistic, but it's certainly not the economic outcome for Japan or South Korea.
That said, I'm pretty pro government support for Energy Infrastructure, I don't think you can really screw up subsidies that make energy cheap, and logistical infrastructure, both public rapid transit and national transportation infrastructure. And I would support Manufacturing capital subsidies (in fact it's something Biden did well) and wage subsidies (particularly paying half of wages for training employees, so long as the employee remains with the company for ~5 years).
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I guess my point is it's less of a "tool" and more of a "drillbit", and without a drill, it's just something to hurt yourself with when you stick your hand in. And I haven't seen much talk about the drill itself, just a lot of praise of drillbits.
I agree policy can create competitive advantage. But I'd hazard that it often comes at the expense of other areas of the economy. South Korea and Japan have just about the worst demographics of any country that wasn't Soviet. There are strategic reasons to want manufacturing, but I'd wager most Americans want the good middle class jobs that support a family - and that doesn't exactly align with the multigenerational no child houses in your examples.
That said, I also support industrial policy. And tariffs are a part of that. I think government backing, or even nationalization, of resource sectors, energy, and transportation can all be very valuable (and frankly hard to screw up unless you create some monolithic monopoly). And in terms of manufacturing, I would love to see Capital investment incentives (which Biden actually did quite well), wage subsidies (particularly training tax credits that pay out over several years so long as the employee stays employees), research hubs for industry (to get rid of R&D tax credits which are useless and increase industry information sharing), and planned industrial parts with centralized power/heat provision and a clear goal for interconnected users. And I think Capital gains taxes should be time sliding, so that the tax rate starts at 100%, but over 20 years falls to 0%, to encourage long term investment..
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@imacmill well, I love in Southern Ontario, and I don't love the all of my oil comes through the US, and that most of it comes from Line 5 which Michigan has been trying to shut down for years, and Biden was keeping open for us, and which Trump could choice to have the EPA close tomorrow. Even though I know it would cost some money and isn't directly profitable. Sometimes infrastructure does cost money, I doubt either of us take issue with Transmission lines being subsidized, for example.
But more widely as a Canadian, the US is about to collapse our exports if we are serious about fighting back. That will be expressed heavily through enormous declines in oil volume and more over price under a growing discount pushing down value. We could rapidly lose 10% of our exports via oil, alongside collapses in New Brunswick from St. John, Ontario's de industrialization, and a general commodity slump. And since Canada is a trade dependent economy, fewer exports will lower the value of the CAD value over a prolonged period, will mean inflation. And mean that Eastern Canada is exporting Capital for a good we domestically.
And on top of all that will probably see a million+ immigrants going home alongside a general Property Market and Financial crash, between bank exposure to oil sands and housing.
So I would be largely in favor of risking a financial loss on a pipeline as a hedge against a sudden drop in currency value and energy security, although I think the discount we will see in the future will more than compensate for pipeline costs, and really want to minimize the time it stays that large. And I think it's rather dishonest to quote Transmountain as a reasonable cost estimate given it was built over Covid.
Because the biggest Issue is Alberta. Which will be the center of the depression. Fort Mac will be a ghost town, because the Mines will be the first thing to close and if we lost Line 5 that's almost half the market for upgraded syncrude. Weak future prospects will end the conventional drilling even though conventional output will continue at low prices from existing wells. The Government of Alberta will lose half it's revenue, a third in oil royalties alone, because the sliding royalty scale. And have an unemployment crisis of formerly very high wage blue collar workers, again alongside other provinces.
And all the while Trump will be on Fox saying Alberta should join the US and they would be rich. With Pro American support already at 10% or higher. If we want to keep Alberta, we need to have more of their oil dependent on Canada than on the US, and right now 80% of their output goes through the US. The US, Trump, doesn't want Quebec. It doesn't want a bunch of democrats and retries. it wants the Conservative, oil rich province, full of young people and with a road to Alaska.
That is the biggest point of issue. The Federal government pays Quebec $13 billion in equalization, it can risk losing $20 billion over 20 years to make Alberta happy. It really doesn't matter if you think it's financially or economically unsound, we need to keep Alberta. And we are already in a competition with the US for it.
But also more fundamentally, I think Markham speaks in bad faith around the oil sands. Electrification and EVs will decimate demand for Gasoline, but they are having little impact on Diesel and jet fuel, or lubricants. Look at Sturgeon Falls, we can take a barrel of Bitumen and produce a barrel of Diesel. OPEC and conventional oil get like 20-30% a barrel of Diesel from a barrel of oil, and about half a barrel of Gasoline. Which means high prices for heavy RPP are going to support oil production with gasoline sold off cheap and pushing EVs out of markets. High prices we can both exploit to carve out market for value added products.
And keeping heavy RPP prices lower, and thereby reducing the profit in refining, and therefore produce less gasoline to dump on the Market. Upgraders provide an excellent industrial customer for Green Hydrogen, and alongside the insitu operations, an industrial customer for SMRs. We need to develop these industries. Frankly once nuclear I would like to see Gasifiers to push out the Shale fracking to the west to feeds LNG.
And all that is besides that Fact that Markham perfectly agrees that non combustion uses should be developed. There is no reason not to use a pipeline to deliver bitumen to coastal BC where Carbon Fiber or Asphalt binder can be produced for global export. We can build a pipeline now, and develop industry as demand falls, not that I think it will for heavy oil. I completely agree with adding as much value as possible.
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@gregorymalchuk272 within 2 years they could reverse Keystone and bring 1M bbl/d North, they can immediately replace 600k bbl/d going to the Gulf with Keystone, and they can move several 100k bbl/d RRPs on Mississippi barges, and retool to use more Bakken in the Midwest for 300k bbl/d.
I'd suggest within 2 months they can replace 1M bbl, and 2 years another 1M bbl/d with relative ease, ignoring the west and east coast which would be another 500k bbl/d. I agree it would be very difficult to replace the last 2M bbl/d going to the mid west.
It would be difficult replacing the 800k bbl/d going to Ontario as well. And the NG that powers southern Ontario power stations and home heating, with 75% of all Ontario's NG coming from the US, disproportionately so in the south.
I very much don't want to be rationing fuel in Ontario and seeing rolling brownouts because we tried to do the same thing to Chicago.
And all that aside, it ignores that it's a much more significant portion of our economy, both Toronto compared to Chicago, and certainly cutting oil exports compared to cutting us off from our own oil.
And all that ignores the elephant in the room, if the US decides to take control of those pipelines, it can..
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@Greenspaceservices I suppose the question then is what do you consider minimal increase in oil infrastructure.
Because I would argue that it's important to consider by and large Canada doesn't produce oil, it produces Bitumen. And the wonderful thing about this is that EVs, which are going to displace enormous amounts of oil, are actually displacing almost entirely Gasoline. When the Saudis sell oil, or the Americans sell the lighter fluid they call shale oil, it's almost entirely light light hydrocarbons, at least half of which go to gasoline. Our very heavy bitumen, on the other hand, can be turned entirely into longer chain hydrocarbons, diesel, jet fuel, lubricants, etc. And in doing so, we can push the oil producers, who will otherwise dump gasoline cheap and compete with EVs in-order to sell the small portions of the barrel that are still in high demand, out of the market.
And so I will say we should be building at least another million barrels a day, along with expanding Transmountain by 300k, to the Pacific coast, and building the refinery complexes, ideally using Green hydrogen to upgrade, to export that high margin fuel to Asia, along with asphalt and lubricants, and carbon fiber if we can crack it.
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I agree with the basic feasibility, but I think this leaves out some major concerns.
Firstly, if you remove the 25% of energy that goes into mining and fossil fuels...you removed those industries. That's no small economic impact. And there was little consideration for what replacing them with mineral mines would mean.
But more broadly, I don't it plays enough into Canada's advantages. Perhaps wind and Hydro will be able to produce energy cheaper than equatorial solar, but if not, then we need to find something less expensive than solar. And that's either SMRs, Geothermal, or Tidal. We need to invest in the next generation of energy production, we can't become consumers of the current.
But if energy demand goes down 60%, that would be an enormous failure. I can't believe that includes any of the industrial growth we need to see for the transition, whether it's EVs or Data Centers.
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@robertbobbypelletreaujr2173 it's remarkable to me this doesn't seem to have happened when the USSR fell apart. The number of countries to come out of it, some like Ukraine having every reason to want them for the political power or Lithuania to ensure they don't get invaded, or Turkmenistan to resell, and none seeming to have done so is incredible. At the same time, the gross government corruption, between oligarchs stealing anything of value and generals selling it to them, and nothing displaced in movement. Likewise, South Africa got rid of all of them before handing over power.
I'm not suggesting that means a collapsed America will return all nukes to the independent nation of New England, but it's very interesting. Clearly people takes nukes is taken seriously even in a worse case scenario.
I'm not sure the risk of aging weapons. I think the triggers tend to break first, meaning they are not a sudden boom risk, more of a dirty bomb risk if just forgten. But I may be wrong.
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@karl-emilmadsen5032 The EU as a whole imports 90% of its oil. Admittedly, the UK and Norway aren't in the EU. But I don't know how you can seriously argue Europe is dependent on Arab and Russian gas and oil.
I do seperate the US by state, btw. They are organized into PADDs. The Midwest and Rocky states rely on Canadian heavy crude mixed with Bakken light, The South relies on a mix of Permian light crude, Gulf offshore, and heavy oils mainly imported from Mexico (and formerly Venezuela), west coast (mainly California) imports mainly heavy oil from west coast South America, along with using Alaska and Californias output, and is the main importer from OPEC countries (Iraq), and is about to get hooked on Canadian oil, and the east coast mostly recieves petroleum products from the South until Jersey, New Brunswick in new England ( which in turn imports a lot from Nigeria and the Saudis, but is a small overall market), and NY area refineries get seaborne shipments from who ever is cheapest, Bakken, and Canadian crude.
The US imports heavy oil, mostly and increasingly from Canada, although also seaborne from South America. Because for a long time the world was running out of light crude, and the US invested in more expensive refineries to handle cheaper heavy crude. Then the fracking boom and global oil shortages from OPEC cuts and Russia turned the US into a major exporter of more expensive light crude, mainly to Europe, but also Canada ( in the east) and China. The US is only actually dependent on Canadian imports, but through NAFTA it's illegal for Canada to reduce imports. The only real exception is California, and when transmountan opens I a few months that will no longer be an exception.
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@karl-emilmadsen5032 very annoyingly, my reply didn't post. Yes Norway and the UK are not in the EU, but Europe as a whole is absolutely dependent on imports, mainly from Arab states and the US, who you are (wrongly) claiming is a net importer, and historically obviously Russia.
Quickly put, the US imports heavy crude, mostly from Canada and mostly to the Midwest and Rocky mountains, but also from Mexico to Texas and West coast South America to California, and this is because the world was running out of light oil, so they invested in more expensive heavy oil upgraders to take advantage of cheaper heavy oil. The US exports more valuable light oil, and more barrels of it than it imports, mostly from Permian Basin fracking in Texas. The only country the US is dependent on is Canada, and because of NAFTA, Canada cannot legally reduce our oil exports. The only exception is California, which is the main importer of OPEC oil, and with Transmountan opening that exception is dead. The only other exception is New England, which is a tiny market that doesn't have a single refinery, and imports finished petroleum products from New Brunswick in Canada, which itself imports OPEC oil, mainly Nigerian and Saudi. And again, at times that balance has shifted to mainly US oil.
The US is a major oil exporter, second only to the Saudis, and gaining. I think this is a very bad thing, for what it's worth, because it's made the US economy more dependent on oil, and eventually the Saudis will flood the market or OPEC will collapse and flood the market or Europe will be flooded with Russian oil, and the very expensive Fracking oil will be decimated, and the US will see a collapse in output. And that's probably soon.
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@karl-emilmadsen5032 Neither Puerto nor Guam nor the US Virgin islands have a single oil refinery. There isn't an oven to "bake the cake". They have no way to consume any crude they recieve; Puerto Rico does have a storage and shipment terminal, any oil sent to Puerto Rico is for re-export.
I'm glad to see you are now agreeing they do produce more than they consume. But as you have pointed out, and I've explained, they are also a massive oil importer, largely from Canada, but also Mexico and to a lesser extent OPEC, almost all of which is very heavy crude. You need to count these imports towards their consumption as well as their production, they don't import for fun. And, for all intents and purposes, you can basically consider the Canadian oil theirs (which hurts, as a Canadian)- it's illegal for Canada to reduce oil sales compared to last year due to NAFTA, the companies that extract the oil and own the reserves are mainly American owned, and nearly all pipeline capacity goes to the US.
In 2023 they exported some 4 million barrels a day. To be a stickler for semantics, they don't consumer 95% of their production, they consume a little over half, export the rest, and import cheap heavy oil to make up the difference. Again, that's all light Permian Basin fracked crude. And most of it went to Europe (as with most of their LNG), which is why the US is Europe's largest supplier of NG and oil. So I expect them to supply Europe exactly as they are? I don't understand why you seem upset about this.
Europe is the one who necessarily buys oil from dictatorships, like Russia.
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@karl-emilmadsen5032 Neither Puerto nor Guam nor the US Virgin islands have a single oil refinery. There isn't an oven to "bake the cake". They have no way to consume any crude they recieve; Puerto Rico does have a storage and shipment terminal, any oil sent to Puerto Rico is for re-export.
I'm glad to see you are now agreeing they do produce more than they consume. But as you have pointed out, and I've explained, they are also a massive oil importer, largely from Canada, but also Mexico and to a lesser extent OPEC, almost all of which is very heavy crude. You need to count these imports towards their consumption as well as their production, they don't import for fun. And, for all intents and purposes, you can basically consider the Canadian oil there (which hurts, as a Canadian)- it's illegal for Canada to reduce oil sales compared to last year due to NAFTA, the companies that extract the oil and own the reserves are mainly American owned, and nearly all pipeline capacity goes to the US.
In 2023 they exported some 4 million barrels a day. To be a stickler for semantics, they don't consumer 95% of their production, they consume a little over half, export the rest, and import cheap heavy oil to make up the difference. Again, that's all light Permian Basin fracked crude. And most of it went to Europe (as with most of their LNG), which is why the US is Europe's largest supplier of NG and oil. So I expect them to supply Europe exactly as they are? I don't understand why you seem upset about this.
Europe is the one who necessarily buys oil from dictatorships, like Russia.
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@karl-emilmadsen5032 Neither Puerto nor Guam nor the US Virgin islands have a single oil refinery. There isn't an oven to "bake the cake". They have no way to consume any crude they recieve; Puerto Rico does have a storage and shipment terminal, any oil sent to Puerto Rico is for re-export.
I'm glad to see you are now agreeing they do produce more than they consume. But as you have pointed out, and I've explained, they are also a massive oil importer, largely from Canada, but also Mexico and to a lesser extent OPEC, almost all of which is very heavy crude. You need to count these imports towards their consumption as well as their production, they don't import for fun. And, for all intents and purposes, you can basically consider the Canadian oil there (which hurts, as a Canadian)- it's illegal for Canada to reduce oil sales compared to last year due to NAFTA, the companies that extract the oil and own the reserves are mainly American owned, and nearly all pipeline capacity goes to the US.
In 2023 they exported some 4 million barrels a day. To be a stickler for semantics, they don't consumer 95% of their production, they consume a little over half, export the rest, and import cheap heavy oil to make up the difference. Again, that's all light Permian Basin fracked crude. And most of it went to Europe (as with most of their LNG), which is why the US is Europe's largest supplier of NG and oil. So I expect them to supply Europe exactly as they are? I don't understand why you seem upset about this.
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@karl-emilmadsen5032 Neither Puerto nor Guam nor the US Virgin islands have a single oil refinery. There isn't an oven to "bake the cake". They have no way to consume any crude they recieve; Puerto Rico does have a storage and shipment terminal, any oil sent to Puerto Rico is for re-export.
I'm glad to see you are now agreeing they do produce more than they consume. But as you have pointed out, and I've explained, they are also a massive oil importer, largely from Canada, but also Mexico and to a lesser extent OPEC, almost all of which is very heavy crude. You need to count these imports towards their consumption as well as their production, they don't import for fun. And, for all intents and purposes, you can basically consider the Canadian oil there (which hurts, as a Canadian)- it's illegal for Canada to reduce oil sales compared to last year due to NAFTA, the companies that extract the oil and own the reserves are mainly American owned, and nearly all pipeline capacity goes to the US.
In 2023 they exported some 4 million barrels a day. To be a stickler for semantics, they don't consumer 95% of their production, they consume a little over half, export the rest, and import cheap heavy oil to make up the difference. Again, that's all light Permian Basin fracked crude. And most of it went to Europe (as with most of their LNG), which is why the US is Europe's largest supplier of NG and oil. So I expect them to supply Europe exactly as they are? I don't understand why you seem upset about this.
Europe is the one who necessarily buys oil from dictatorships, like Russia.
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@karl-emilmadsen5032 Neither Puerto nor Guam nor the US Virgin islands have a single oil refinery. There isn't an oven to "bake the cake". They have no way to consume any crude they recieve; Puerto Rico does have a storage and shipment terminal, any oil sent to Puerto Rico is for re-export.
I'm glad to see you are now agreeing they do produce more than they consume. But as you have pointed out, and I've explained, they are also a massive oil importer, largely from Canada, but also Mexico and to a lesser extent OPEC, almost all of which is very heavy crude. You need to count these imports towards their consumption as well as their production, they don't import for fun. And, for all intents and purposes, you can basically consider the Canadian oil there (which hurts, as a Canadian)- it's illegal for Canada to reduce oil sales compared to last year due to NAFTA, the companies that extract the oil and own the reserves are mainly American owned, and nearly all pipeline capacity goes to the US.
In 2023 they exported some 4 million barrels a day. To be a stickler for semantics, they don't consumer 95% of their production, they consume a little over half, export the rest, and import cheap heavy oil to make up the difference. Again, that's all light Permian Basin fracked crude. And most of it went to Europe (as with most of their LNG), which is why the US is Europe's largest supplier of NG and oil. So I expect them to supply Europe exactly as they are? I don't understand why you seem upset about this.
Europe is the one who necessarily buys oil from dictatorships, like Russia.
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@Bert, man, I'm the Canadian in the situation. You don't have to say I told you so, you already win. We're going to go into a depression, and you're going to make us work like Mexicans. You really don't need to be smug or talk to me about the pinch of being down $100 a month.
You don't seem to understand how our economies interact. Mexico and Canada buy everything from you, and sell you raw resources or car parts. You buy those things, if it happens to be the cheapest option in the immediate area. Canada only sells you a fraction of your timber or iron, but it's all of our timber and iron exports, and all the equipment for industrial activity is bought from you.
Yes tariffs cost money. Most taxes cost you a lot more money. This isn't going to cause an economic collapse *for you*. If you were spending $140 on imports a week, you're going to end up paying $14 in taxes and $150 overall, because everyone else needs access to your markets.
Edit: like, do you understand how quickly Canada is going to implode. Russia being allowed to sell oil is going to kill oil prices, they'll flood the market with literally everything Canada sells (minerals, timber, fertilzer, iron, aluminum, nickle etc) they've been stockpiling because they can't sell, and our biggest trade partner is going to cut our trade with a goal of getting us to sell cheaper or deindustrialize, all while we fight a seperate trade war with the world's second largest economy you dragged us into. All because moderate or progressive Americans didn't show up to vote. And you want brag f off
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This is certainly true; but with smart policy we have decades we can be exploiting the oilsands. The build out of renewables is stunningly rapid. But today, the continent of Africa has as much electrical capacity as Canada. If, globally, there is sufficient solar for energy availability, let alone abundance, in the next 20 years it would be a miracle. And beyond that the energy to transition all vehicles to EVs. And AI driven data center demand. Home heating. And beyond that the infrastructure and energy to produce liquid fuels at scale. And once we can do this, it will be the lightest Hydrocarbons, NG and NGLs, that are built out first.
Bitumen is the longest chain Hydrocarbons. Heavy liquid Hydrocarbons (jet fuel, diesel) will be the last form of fossil energy to be displaced. Lubricants and asphalt later than that, and next generation non combustion used like carbon fiber and activated carbon after that. Global electrification and coming energy abundance must be part of the conversation around the Oil sands if we are to responsibly develop and exploit the resource, but it does not mean we should allow the oil industry to undergo a rapid collapse because of poor understanding of its market..
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I think the points here are well made, but I don't think the issue is insurmountable;
Red water saw cost overruns, but I would attribute much of that to delays in decisions moving forward. I think one of the biggest things to avoid such overruns is a larger scale build out; in the same way North American transit projects so often go over price. We need to build on experience and take the learnings of these builds.
I would say that of course North America is well served, it is the Asian market we need to grow into. And if course Asian and US refiners dominate, we don't have any.
But ultimately government actions are can help. An agreement to build pipeline capacity to Prince Rupert but not lift the crude oil ban on shipping would create a pressure to build refineries.
And I do think there are areas government subsidies would be valid; capital subsidies on refineries to lower cost, and very high subsidies for green hydrogen to use in upgrading and SMRs to power the facilities, while benefiting oil, would be powerful in bringing our industry into the future.
Ultimately, demand for certain products is falling much faster than others, and again looking at Red water we can specialize in those specific products.
Edit: also, Transmountain has 500k bbl/d of Refined product capacity, and that's on the the original, paid off line. I would argue, as the government owns it, we should allow refined products to travel free if tolls to both limit crude shipments to the coast and so push up the value of that capacity, and incentivize refining in Alberta, which ultimately moves more product to coast.
Also not addressed in the video, I believe DilBit exports should have an SCO mixing requirement into the dilutant that increases with time to lower demand for condensate and increase demand for SCO, both to preserve existing upgraders and drive demand into new.
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@bipl8989 I believe most of the NG comes out of the Montney, and is shale yes.. BC used to be a large conventional NG producer but I don't believe that's as relevant today - but I may be mistaken.
Certainly some of it is condensate, but it is also tight liquids pumped. An "issue" the oilsands has had is that as dilutent is increasingly Domestic, it has been getting heavier and need a higher ratio of dilutent, largely because of the shale oil. I imagine some is also NGLs seperated at plant, but these also feed the Petrochemical industry that has been growing in Alberta, I don't know split between uses - it may be that more NGLs going to petrochemicals is also a part of increasing diluent API, my understanding is most NGLs go to petrochemicals, but I don't have metrics.
I think Alberta may be the only market in the world the shale oil sells at a premium because of the SAGD demand; with the blow up in Bakken after 2010 I'm not sure how Midwest refineries have delt with the excess in light fractions; I've always assume the Dilutant in DilBit is a big part of why Bakken crude is struggles to find a market in the Midwest though. That said, I assume the Cokers aim to output a range of hydrocarbons that complement, and the mix of condensate and tight oil is probably less problematic then the flood of condensate coming out of the Permian (although I've also found it very hard to find the composition of Permian output).
To the point on producing what sells; I'd make 3 points. One, from an environmental standpoint, I do not think we should encourage fracking: ground water, methane emissions, abandoned wells. I've made the point before but I think we should be pushing the oilsands to nuclear heating. Two, DilBit sells, but I don't believe the diluent is responsible. As you point out, it's actually a considerable issue, it just happens to be a necessity to access the Bitumen. Three, Today's market isn't tomorrows market, I believe EVs will destroy demand for gasoline, and further weaken demand for tight oil; whereas middle distillates will increasingly be under supplied. Even today I would suggest most Midwest refineries would rather bitumen and middle distillates, and mix Bakken as needed, then the tight oil/condensate/NGL dilutent they are forced to take.
And to be clear, when I say Upgrade to Bitumen, I am talking about the Sturgeon falls upgrader. I think beyond selling DilBit, Canada should be using the Oilsands as a launching platform for SMRs and Green Hydrogen, and upgraders create a market for both.
I also think little happens today in Venezuela; I know they invented the CSS/huff and puff that Coldwater later stole before SAGD started. And I believe Chevron was doing a solvent wash with exported US condensate.
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@bipl8989 I believe most of the NG comes out of the Montney, and is shale yes. BC used to be a large conventional NG producer but I don't believe that's as relevant today - but I may be mistaken.
Certainly some of it is condensate, but it is also tight liquids pumped. An "issue" the oilsands has had is that as dilutent is increasingly Domestic, it has been getting heavier and need a higher ratio of dilutent, largely because of the shale oil. I imagine some is also NGLs seperated at plant, but these also feed the Petrochemical industry that has been growing in Alberta, I don't know split between uses - it may be that more NGLs going to petrochemicals is also a part of increasing diluent API, my understanding is most NGLs go to petrochemicals, but I don't have metrics.
I think Alberta may be the only market in the world the shale oil sells at a premium because of the SAGD demand; with the blow up in Bakken after 2010 I'm not sure how Midwest refineries have delt with the excess in light fractions; I've always assume the Dilutant in DilBit is a big part of why Bakken crude is struggles to find a market in the Midwest though. That said, I assume the Cokers aim to output a range of hydrocarbons that complement, and the mix of condensate and tight oil is probably less problematic then the flood of condensate coming out of the Permian (although I've also found it very hard to find the composition of Permian output).
To the point on producing what sells; I'd make 3 points. One, from an environmental standpoint, I do not think we should encourage fracking: ground water, methane emissions, abandoned wells. I've made the point before but I think we should be pushing the oilsands to nuclear heating. Two, DilBit sells, but I don't believe the diluent is responsible. As you point out, it's actually a considerable issue, it just happens to be a necessity to access the Bitumen. Three, Today's market isn't tomorrows market, I believe EVs will destroy demand for gasoline, and further weaken demand for tight oil; whereas middle distillates will increasingly be under supplied. Even today I would suggest most Midwest refineries would rather bitumen and middle distillates, and mix Bakken as needed, then the tight oil/condensate/NGL dilutent they are forced to take.
And to be clear, when I say Upgrade to Bitumen, I am talking about the Sturgeon falls upgrader. I think beyond selling DilBit, Canada should be using the Oilsands as a launching platform for SMRs and Green Hydrogen, and upgraders create a market for both.
I also think little happens today in Venezuela; I know they invented the CSS/huff and puff that Coldwater later stole before SAGD started. And I believe Chevron was doing a solvent wash with exported US condensate.
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@bipl8989 my understanding is phase 1 will allow about 10% of Albertas current production to be exported as LNG, which may allow some expansion of production, but I think ultimately is going to allow lower use in electrical production (about 20% of Alberta production), and in the short term lower exports to the US.
Where did you get the info on Bakken having less condensate? Not that I don't believe it, Bakken does seem prefered (for example rail going to irving as you said over ships from Texas), I just have not been able to find anything reliable; and Bakken being older I'd expect to be lighter. But I'm not suggesting there is no market for Bakken, just that you might expect the Midwest refineries to be bigger buyers being close, and that the dilutent is competing against that pushing down the value of both.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting requiring exports be SCO, im suggesting the dilutent should be. I understand the market is for Bitumen. But DilBit does use condensate, both from the Montney and, as you point out, something like 80k bbl/d are imported. It just also uses the tight oil.
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@markbaker6553 I promote a wide variety of projects. Admittedly, on this channel, it may appear I disproportionately advocate for fossil fuels, but that is only because other projects are directly discussed and I don't have anything else to contribute - and when I do, I most certainly add it.
Since we've spoken a few times, let me clearly lay out what I want;
I think LNG projects are almost entirely a waste of time, expect maybe seasonal exports out of Manitoba.
I would like to see the Oil sands mining industry come to an end on a set 25 year time line where production quotas are slowly decreased before quickly decreasing, and quotas are allocated based on tail ponds reductions. The mines will close regardless, and I want this to be in a controlled manner that doesn't allow SynCrude (the company) to declare bankruptcy and stick us with their tailings ponds, and in the interim we should support policies that keep the mines operational to ensure this doesn't happen.
I would like to see conventional drilling come to an end on a 10 year time line, supported by a massive funding boost to geothermal that maintains the capital and work force and allows us to be a global leader in the industry as China has with solar.
I would like to see shale fracking come to an end on a 20-30 year time line, with the real controlling mechanism below; shale fracking provides our dilutant, our Natural gas, and our chemical industry inputs at the moment.
I would like to see an increase of In Situ SAGD production in the oil sands, potentially to around 5-6M bbl/d. I think this should be a growth industry we support because it is unique to Canada and offers advantages to oil. I think we should be moving SAGD to nuclear steam generators over the next 10 years, cutting NG demand by ~20% of our production. This would make Oil Sands production effectively emissionsless, and make the marginal cost of production almost $0 allowing us to force out OPEC.
I want to see the upgraders equipped with Nuclear heating as well, and transitioning to Green Hydrogen as the Alberta grid increases capacity. I want to see a blending requirement meant to increase upgraded Syncrude in DilBit over time to create a market for SynCrude, demand for investment into new upgraders, and push out Dilutent, until we are only selling SynBit, that is again, effectively emissionsless in production. These Upgraders will also act to grow employment in Fort McMurray and avoid a regional collapse from the eventual end of mining.
I want to see 2 Northern Gateway pipelines built consecutively, to bring 1M bbl/d to Prince Rupert, for a total of 3M bbl/d reaching the Pacific. And alongside that, I want to see a 300k bbl/d refinery, Bitumen beyond combustion uses such as asphalt and carbon fiber, and a large scale petrochemical industry including Gasoline cracking units to adsorb light fractions without a global market.
I want to see a TransCanada line capable of bringing 2M bbl/d east, providing oil security to the 1M bbl/d Eastern Canada uses, and working with Europe to find a long term market for the other 1M bbl/d in East coast exports. I think this line should only be allowed to carry SynCrude, or potentially synCrude with a low blend of Bitumen such that the mix floats.
Beyond that, I want to see further upgraders that target an even lighter crude that can feed the Chemical industry, pushing out NGLs from shale fracking. I want to see Gasifiers turning Bitumen into Natural gas, supplying NG for LNG exports or power generation or domestic heat. Again, using SMRs for nuclear heat to power the process, creating a continuously expanding domestic market for us to develop as a global leader in SMRs, and meaning that our gasified Bitumen is lower emissions than conventional NG. The time line for this ultimately decides when shale fracking is ended
Finally, I want to see Power to Gas slowly worked into this system, which is increasingly dominated by the upgrading process, so that the NG is increasingly reducing emissions, leveraging the existing gasifier and green hydrogen infrastructure. Overtime, as NG demand is met, I want to see that transition to Power to Liquids infrastructure, feeding the chemical industry, and whatever RRP demand is maintained. Eventually, also supplying Asphaltenes for Carbon Fiber and beyond Bitumen uses.
I think this point can be reached likely in the 2060-2070 range, and fully converting our petrochemical and NG industries to electrically powered renewable industries; and allowing Alberta to export it's enormous renewable capacity as material and liquid energy products using nuclear heating and cheap green hydrogen.
I do not want to see a sudden collapse of Canada's largest industry and largest source of export revenue. I do not want to see mines and tailing ponds being abandoned and destroying the Athabasca river. I do not want to see drilling rigs being sold, with a 25% tariff, to the US as the owners write off their value in a low price environment. I do not want to see the Government of Albertas revenue collapse, or mass unemployment centered on Fort McMurray; both because I don't want to see Canadian losing their job and home value, and also because I suspect those particular Canadians will make my life very difficult if they do, either occupying Ottawa or trying to Seperate. I do not want to see us missing an enormous opportunity to leverage our resources and expertise to encourage new industries like nuclear, geothermal, or power to gas that we could take a dominant global position in.
And I truly detest the excessive concern with carbon emissions related to the Oils sands in the near term. Canada is not a meaningful portion of global emissions, and the oil industry is a controlled supply market - we are incapable of adding to global emissions with a higher oil supply because OPEC will adjust their supply to control prices. China did and is not developing its next generation technology by worrying about emissions in the near or medium term. We should not either. We can be far more beneficial to the world by actually planning on responsibly developing our resources instead of absurd political signals like an emissions cap or some belief that closing the oilsands will somehow benefit anyone. This is politically and economically dangerous.
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@markbaker6553 my reply was evidently to long so I'm breaking it up;
I promote a wide variety of projects. Admittedly, on this channel, it may appear I disproportionately advocate for fossil fuels, but that is only because other projects are directly discussed and I don't have anything else to contribute - and when I do, I most certainly add it.
Since we've spoken a few times, let me clearly lay out what I want;
I think LNG projects are almost entirely a waste of time, expect maybe seasonal exports out of Manitoba.
I would like to see the Oil sands mining industry come to an end on a set 25 year time line where production quotas are slowly decreased before quickly decreasing, and quotas are allocated based on tail ponds reductions. The mines will close regardless, and I want this to be in a controlled manner that doesn't allow SynCrude (the company) to declare bankruptcy and stick us with their tailings ponds, and in the interim we should support policies that keep the mines operational to ensure this doesn't happen.
I would like to see conventional drilling come to an end on a 10 year time line, supported by a massive funding boost to geothermal that maintains the capital and work force and allows us to be a global leader in the industry as China has with solar.
I would like to see shale fracking come to an end on a 20-30 year time line, with the real controlling mechanism below; shale fracking provides our dilutant, our Natural gas, and our chemical industry inputs at the moment..
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@markbaker6553 I would like to see an increase of In Situ SAGD production in the oil sands, potentially to around 5-6M bbl/d. I think this should be a growth industry we support because it is unique to Canada and offers advantages to oil. I think we should be moving SAGD to nuclear steam generators over the next 10 years, cutting NG demand by ~20% of our production. This would make Oil Sands production effectively emissionsless, and make the marginal cost of production almost $0 allowing us to force out OPEC.
I want to see the upgraders equipped with Nuclear heating as well, and transitioning to Green Hydrogen as the Alberta grid increases capacity. I want to see a blending requirement meant to increase upgraded Syncrude in DilBit over time to create a market for SynCrude, demand for investment into new upgraders, and push out Dilutent, until we are only selling SynBit, that is again, effectively emissionsless in production. These Upgraders will also act to grow employment in Fort McMurray and avoid a regional collapse from the eventual end of mining.
I want to see 2 Northern Gateway pipelines built consecutively, to bring 1M bbl/d to Prince Rupert, for a total of 3M bbl/d reaching the Pacific. And alongside that, I want to see a 300k bbl/d refinery, Bitumen beyond combustion uses such as asphalt and carbon fiber, and a large scale petrochemical industry including Gasoline cracking units to adsorb light fractions without a global market.
I want to see a TransCanada line capable of bringing 2M bbl/d east, providing oil security to the 1M bbl/d Eastern Canada uses, and working with Europe to find a long term market for the other 1M bbl/d in East coast exports. I think this line should only be allowed to carry SynCrude, or potentially synCrude with a low blend of Bitumen such that the mix floats..
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@markbaker6553 Beyond that, I want to see further upgraders that target an even lighter crude that can feed the Chemical industry, pushing out NGLs from shale fracking. I want to see Gasifiers turning Bitumen into Natural gas, supplying NG for LNG exports or power generation or domestic heat. Again, using SMRs for nuclear heat to power the process, creating a continuously expanding domestic market for us to develop as a global leader in SMRs, and meaning that our gasified Bitumen is lower emissions than conventional NG. The time line for this ultimately decides when shale fracking is ended
Finally, I want to see Power to Gas slowly worked into this system, which is increasingly dominated by the upgrading process, so that the NG is increasingly reducing emissions, leveraging the existing gasifier and green hydrogen infrastructure. Overtime, as NG demand is met, I want to see that transition to Power to Liquids infrastructure, feeding the chemical industry, and whatever RRP demand is maintained. Eventually, also supplying Asphaltenes for Carbon Fiber and beyond Bitumen uses.
I think this point can be reached likely in the 2060-2070 range, and fully converting our petrochemical and NG industries to electrically powered renewable industries; and allowing Alberta to export it's enormous renewable capacity as material and liquid energy products using nuclear heating and cheap green hydrogen..
1
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@markbaker6553 I promote a wide variety of projects. Admittedly, on this channel, it may appear I disproportionately advocate for fossil fuels, but that is only because other projects are directly discussed and I don't have anything else to contribute - and when I do, I most certainly add it.
Since we've spoken a few times, let me clearly lay out what I want;
I think LNG projects are almost entirely a waste of time, expect maybe seasonal exports out of Manitoba.
I would like to see the Oil sands mining industry come to an end on a set 25 year time line where production quotas are slowly decreased before quickly decreasing, and quotas are allocated based on tail ponds reductions. The mines will close regardless, and I want this to be in a controlled manner that doesn't allow SynCrude (the company) to declare bankruptcy and stick us with their tailings ponds, and in the interim we should support policies that keep the mines operational to ensure this doesn't happen.
I would like to see conventional drilling come to an end on a 10 year time line, supported by a massive funding boost to geothermal that maintains the capital and work force and allows us to be a global leader in the industry as China has with solar.
I would like to see shale fracking come to an end on a 20-30 year time line, with the real controlling mechanism below; shale fracking provides our dilutant, our Natural gas, and our chemical industry inputs at the moment.
I would like to see an increase of In Situ SAGD production in the oil sands, potentially to around 5-6M bbl/d. I think this should be a growth industry we support because it is unique to Canada and offers advantages to oil. I think we should be moving SAGD to nuclear steam generators over the next 10 years, cutting NG demand by ~20% of our production. This would make Oil Sands production effectively emissionsless, and make the marginal cost of production almost $0 allowing us to force out OPEC.
I want to see the upgraders equipped with Nuclear heating as well, and transitioning to Green Hydrogen as the Alberta grid increases capacity. I want to see a blending requirement meant to increase upgraded Syncrude in DilBit over time to create a market for SynCrude, demand for investment into new upgraders, and push out Dilutent, until we are only selling SynBit, that is again, effectively emissionsless in production. These Upgraders will also act to grow employment in Fort McMurray and avoid a regional collapse from the eventual end of mining.
I want to see 2 Northern Gateway pipelines built consecutively, to bring 1M bbl/d to Prince Rupert, for a total of 3M bbl/d reaching the Pacific. And alongside that, I want to see a 300k bbl/d refinery, Bitumen beyond combustion uses such as asphalt and carbon fiber, and a large scale petrochemical industry including Gasoline cracking units to adsorb light fractions without a global market.
I want to see a TransCanada line capable of bringing 2M bbl/d east, providing oil security to the 1M bbl/d Eastern Canada uses, and working with Europe to find a long term market for the other 1M bbl/d in East coast exports. I think this line should only be allowed to carry SynCrude, or potentially synCrude with a low blend of Bitumen such that the mix floats.
Beyond that, I want to see further upgraders that target an even lighter crude that can feed the Chemical industry, pushing out NGLs from shale fracking. I want to see Gasifiers turning Bitumen into Natural gas, supplying NG for LNG exports or power generation or domestic heat. Again, using SMRs for nuclear heat to power the process, creating a continuously expanding domestic market for us to develop as a global leader in SMRs, and meaning that our gasified Bitumen is lower emissions than conventional NG. The time line for this ultimately decides when shale fracking is ended
Finally, I want to see Power to Gas slowly worked into this system, which is increasingly dominated by the upgrading process, so that the NG is increasingly reducing emissions, leveraging the existing gasifier and green hydrogen infrastructure. Overtime, as NG demand is met, I want to see that transition to Power to Liquids infrastructure, feeding the chemical industry, and whatever RRP demand is maintained. Eventually, also supplying Asphaltenes for Carbon Fiber and beyond Bitumen uses.
I think this point can be reached likely in the 2060-2070 range, and fully converting our petrochemical and NG industries to electrically powered renewable industries; and allowing Alberta to export it's enormous renewable capacity as material and liquid energy products using nuclear heating and cheap green hydrogen.
I do not want to see a sudden collapse of Canada's largest industry and largest source of export revenue. I do not want to see mines and tailing ponds being abandoned and destroying the Athabasca river. I do not want to see drilling rigs being sold, with a 25% tariff, to the US as the owners write off their value in a low price environment. I do not want to see the Government of Albertas revenue collapse, or mass unemployment centered on Fort McMurray; both because I don't want to see Canadian losing their job and home value, and also because I suspect those particular Canadians will make my life very difficult if they do, either occupying Ottawa or trying to Seperate. I do not want to see us missing an enormous opportunity to leverage our resources and expertise to encourage new industries like nuclear, geothermal, or power to gas that we could take a dominant global position in.
And I truly detest the excessive concern with carbon emissions related to the Oils sands in the near term. Canada is not a meaningful portion of global emissions, and the oil industry is a controlled supply market - we are incapable of adding to global emissions with a higher oil supply because OPEC will adjust their supply to control prices. China did and is not developing its next generation technology by worrying about emissions in the near or medium term. We should not either. We can be far more beneficial to the world by actually planning on responsibly developing our resources instead of absurd political signals like an emissions cap or some belief that closing the oilsands will somehow benefit anyone. This is politically and economically dangerous..
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@markbaker6553 Do you believe in the potential of bitumen beyond combustion? Because again, we can do those processes on a coast. If there isn't demand for WCS, and I think it's quite evident there is since Transmountain ships half it's oil to Asia and operates at full capacity, we can upgrade and sell light sweet (which I don't think there is demand for). We can upgrade and sell jet fuel, which I am sure there is demand for. And I believe these project deserve all the attention of value adding we give any other resource.
And I would add that a TransCanada line is very clearly a highly strategic project.
Also, you can criticize the government of Alberta all you want. I can't do anything about it lol. All I would point out is that Smith is a reaction in Alberta to a belief the rest of the country is oppressing their industry; pipelines, emissions caps that only impact them, a complete rebuild of their electrical system, a supply management system for agriculture that doesn't benefit their main sector of beef, a tax on natural gas for home heating which they widely rely on without alternative, etc. She was elected to be against Canada because, even if they vote NDP, they believe Canada will not support them. If we take the stance that Alberta is on its own and we are going to let it's largest private industry and main source of government fail, we will get more like Smith, not less..
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